December 26, 2024 • 45 mins
On this episode, Alex Bozich is joined by Rick Bozich of WDRB.com for a big-picture discussion on IU basketball and the current direction of the program.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
It's Thursday, December twenty sixth. I hope everyone had a
great holiday. No weeks off for Podcasts on the Brink.
Where we are in the middle of the IU basketball season.
The Hoosiers get back in action on Sunday afternoon against Winthrop,
final non conference game of the season. Before we dive
(00:38):
in to this week's episode of Podcasts on the Brink,
wanted to take a moment and remind you that this
episode is brought to you by our friends at Visit Bloomington.
Visit Bloomington's also a proud partner of Indiana University Athletics.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Right now, Visit.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Bloomington is giving you and one friend the chances for
free Who's Your Basketball tickets. Go to visit bloomington dot
com Forward Slash Contest contest with an S on the
end and enter the IU Men's basketball giveaway. The winners
will also receive a fifteen dollars gift card to Bucetto's
Pizza and Pasta. The website once again is visit Bloomington
dot com. Forward Slash Contest. That's contest with an S
(01:14):
on the end. Terms and conditions apply. Se site for details.
Bucetto is actually a really good spot, miss having it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I live in Louisville.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
They used to be a location down here. You used
to love going there for lunch, and it's no longer here.
So I want to do it a chance to get
up to Bloomington. I like to make a stop there.
This week's episode of Podcast on the Brink, we're joined
by my dad, Rick Bozic WDRB dot com. Back with
us on the show. I think this has been your
first episode with us since the basketball season started, but
(01:45):
I'm going to first start with something a little bit
more positive on this week's show, the IU football season
that just ended eleven and two the Who's Yours finished?
You were up there in South Bend for the college
football playoff game. You've been watching IU football for a
long time. Can you just put into context what how
maybe I'm improbable the season is in kind of the
(02:07):
scope of history value football, and maybe where it ranks
for you in terms of the seasons that you've had
a chance.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
To watch AU football over the course of your lifetime.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Wow, in terms of improbable, it'd be like a ten
or ten plus. I mean when you. I remember when
Signette got hired and some of the stuff he said
early on, thinking do do you not know the history
of value football? That's not going to be possible. And
I remember a lot of people early in the year predicting, yeah,
they're going to be six and oh, yeah, they might
(02:39):
be you know, eight oh or seven and one, and
it's like, come on, I mean, that's not going to happen.
And it did happen, and he was able to get
people to fill the stadium, which hasn't happened consistently for
a long long time. He was able to get an
untold amount of free national publicity not only for the
(03:00):
football program, but for Indiana University athletics, Indiana University, Bloomington, whatever,
which I'm sure will translate into more donations to the
program or the athletic department, and the more which we've
seen at other schools, more out of state students being
(03:21):
interested in coming to EE you because football is such
an important part of our culture. And then the product
was a great product. I mean I went to I
ended up going to five games, and the first one
I went to was Maryland, and Maryland's a team that
had beaten Indiana pretty consistently in the last few years,
and now you beat them decisively. And then they beat
Nebraska even more decisively fifty six to seven. And then
(03:45):
they beat Washington, which was in the National Championship game
last year. And then they lost to Ohio State and
they lost a Notre Dame. But you know, there's some reasons.
I'd say sixty seven resonates more with me, just because
that's when I was started in the fol college football
and that team was known for winning close games, pulling
(04:05):
them out in the fourth quarter, running fake punts, doing
stuff to win games they weren't supposed to win. And
then they had a beat Purdue in the last game
of the year to win the Big Ten title and
go to They actually did go to the Rose Bowl
and played against O. J. Simpson and USC when USC
(04:26):
was one of the three or four biggest brands in
college football and played them a competitive game. They lost
fourteen to three, but it was a competitive game. This year,
you know, they they didn't win the Big Ten. They
they were in the playoff, but they weren't in a
bowl game. I mean, you know, the playoff is a
bigger deal, but it's not as glamorous sort of as
(04:47):
a bowl game would be, especially the Rose Bowl. But
there's more reason to be excited, I think now because
of what's happened in the four or five days since
the game, with getting three or four players to they're
going to come back, and getting two or three really
nice commitments out of the portal, and feeling there's just
a feeling around Signetti. If people are convinced that he
(05:12):
is a good coach who has a planned, he knows
how to execute his plan, and the fact that they
were able to get every assistant coach but one to
come back for another year. There's just so much positivity
around the program. And you got to figure the season
ticket sales will jump up a big amount next year,
and you got to figure that he's going to be
the kind of guy who's gonna, you know, be able
(05:34):
to stack winning seasons. That's what all you needs to do.
They need to stack. That's the next step. Stacked winning seasons.
Not go from eleven to two to four and eight
or something like that. At least you know, win seven
or eight games next year, and you know, get people
believing that the commitment to football is real.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, it's it's been obviously don't cover football on Inside
the Hall, but been a lot of a lot of
fun to watch this season and just follow along with
you mentioned the positivity and the confidence the way that
Kurt Signetti runs his program, and it kind of helps
me transition into the situation right now with IU men's basketball,
(06:17):
and it just kind of seems like the programs are
operating on a completely different wavelength in terms of how
they're presenting themselves. Signetti obviously in press conferences, always a
good quote, always projecting positivity, a lot of energy. Mike
Woodson not so much on a lot of those kind
(06:38):
of those those same topics. But going back a little
bit further, you know, you covered IU basketball, going back
to your days and Bloomington as a student. You're around
for the Bod Night era, and since Night has been
gone from Bloomington as the coach, it seems like I
just kind of been stuck in this endless cycle of
just going through co coach. And obviously Tom Creane was
(07:02):
there for nine years, but he was there the longest,
but you had a situation with Mike Davis where he
took over on the interim basis and had that one
good season where they were able to go to the
national Championship game. You had the Kelvin Sampson situation where
he came in and broke in CAA rules and was
obviously dismissed pretty quickly. You had a brief tenure there
(07:22):
from Dan Dockets as an interim coach, and you had
the Crean era, which had its I think a lot
of value. Fans at this point would take kind of
the ups of the Creen era based on what they've
seen the last eight years under Archie Miller and Mike Woodson.
But Creane never really had that consistency. Archie Miller we know,
and now to the present with Mike Woodson. But my
question is why do you think Indiana basketball kind of
(07:45):
keeps getting back to the same spot where they have
maybe a couple of seasons where things seem to be
going right, but they just can't seem to stack that consistency.
Even going back to the early years of the Woodson era.
The biggest compliment I gave him after the first two
years was he kind of them back to a little
place of stability where they made the tournament two straight years.
I thought that was important when he came in and
then last year obviously the fall off with that team,
(08:08):
and then this year it's just seems like something is missing,
is not there, And I'm curious if you can pinpoint
anything or you have any thoughts on just why. I
you kind of seems to get back to the spot
time and time again where they can't stack together any
consistency year over year.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, there's a lot of different ways I can go
with that. One is to make it overly simplistic. They
just haven't found the right guy who checks all the
different boxes. Even now, twenty five years after he was fired,
any coach that comes to Indiana is compared with Bob
(08:47):
Knight in the minds of a lot of different fans.
And although most of his top of the line success
happened in his first sixteen or seventeen years, and you know,
there wasn't another Final four after Night Team ninety two,
and you know, the last few years weren't as good
as the earlier years he was. He went to the
tournament every year, was never even a belief that Indiana
(09:09):
was gonna not gonna make the tournament. I mean they
were going to make the tournament. They had that that
was a minimum bar of success. And it fell off
under Davis, and he was dealing with, you know, a
fractured fan base, and people turned on him. And even
though you know, when he was there he did a
(09:31):
fairly job good job of recruiting. They were getting pretty
good players. For a number of years, he just wasn't
able to win consistently, and the heat got turned up
to such a point that he quit in the middle
of the season. I mean, the word came out that
he wasn't going to finish the season. And even that
season when he got fired, they went to the tournament
and won a game. I mean, because I remember I
covered him. It was in Salt Lake City. I think
(09:54):
they lost. They beat somebody, and they lost to Gonzaga.
And then they picked Sam, who you know, in retrospect
would have been a coach you probably would have won
multiple national championships in Indiana. But he didn't follow the rules,
and because he hadn't followed the rules earlier at Oklahoma,
even though it's not a rule anymore, he had to
(10:16):
go and the program got decimated and Crean had to
build it back from zero, and that was before the
transfer portal, and the way he went about doing it,
it took him really, I mean into his fourth season
before he was, you know, projecting much positive momentum, and.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
He was.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
His success was too inconsistent of you know, making the tournament,
making sweet sixteens and then missing the tournament. And for
a lot of IU fans, once you make a couple
of sweet sixteens, it's like, well sweet sixteen isn't good enough.
You got to make it the lead eight or final four.
And recruiting that one year when he didn't get any
of the n State players. That was the Scrugs and
(10:58):
Wilkes and Jackson, and I forgot who the fourth one was,
the Malik Williams. Maybe I think it was people turned
on him. And then there was a tremendous amount of
excitement about Archie because of his name and his brother's success,
and he had been to an elite at Dayton, and uh,
(11:20):
he actually did a decent job recruiting. He got Romeo
and Trace, Jackson, Davis and some other people, but he
didn't really have the temperament of the personality for the job.
He just wanted to coach ball, I think, and that's
not what the job is at Indiana or you know,
a lot of big ten type level jobs, and so
he had to go and then they brought in Woodson,
(11:44):
and he's done the minimum I think, the first two years,
and then the positive momentum disappeared last year and for
a variety of reasons, which a lot of people have
talked about, whether it was the Senior Day comments or
the lack of success in recruiting, or not making the
(12:05):
tournament and getting blown out in so many games, getting
swept by Nebraska. I could go on and on that
people have started to turn on him, and they really
haven't given the fan base enough encouragement this season to
buy back in. And I believe that Woodson's been fortunate
(12:26):
that IU football has been good this year because a
lot of IU fans haven't really turned their focus to
basketball yet. But now that football's over and they've only
got one non conference game to go, that's going to happen,
and it's going to be interesting to see how the
fans respond to the way the team has played, if
they continue to play the way they've played so far
(12:46):
this year.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, So watching this team of close as I have
all season, and I have obviously for many years, it's
it's a little bit perplexed because I went down there
for that exhibition game at Tennessee and I thought Indiana played. Now,
it obviously doesn't count in the standings, but there was
(13:11):
a good crowd there. I would say twelve to thirteen
thousand people. It wasn't obviously completely full, but it's it's
it was played, I thought, for the most part, with
the intensity of a regular season game.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Obviously, as I said, as much as an exhibition can be.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
But you know, I thought both teams showed up to play,
and Indiana didn't actually play great, but they they want
They figured out a way to win that game, and
I think that gave a lot of people some confidence
at the minimum this team would come out and be,
you know, middle half of the Big ten or better
potential NCAA tournament team, And kind of as we watched
(13:48):
the season unfold, they obviously had some decent moments early,
but when they go to the Bahamas and get blown
out by Louisville and Gonzaga and then have the game
like they had in Nebraska, you've kind of seen the
players have changed and but the results mostly have stayed
the same in the kind of these big, big time
games for Indiana so far, this season, and for you know,
(14:13):
just evaluating this as objectively as possible is the biggest
concern do you think from the fans or from people
who watch this team closely? Just how badly Indiana gets
beaten in some of these games? Is the way they
sometimes look lack you know, lack of preparation and how
they come out and play.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Is it the lack of energy?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
What you know? If you had to pinpoint one or
two things that when you watch this team play that
are the most alarming.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
What would they be?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And why do you think people are so concerned? Maybe
even despite the nine and three record. I think a
lot of people nationally who maybe don't follow this on,
you know, as closely as we do, would say, well,
they're nine and three, that they're off to a decent start.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
We'll see what happens in Big Ten play.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
But I don't think most Indiana fans at this point
are of that same opinion.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, say it's two or three things. One is, when
you watch them play, I see a lack of attention
or appreciation for details on small things that you have
to do to win. And I'll start off just with
hustle or urgency. If you watch the Louisville game. They
(15:20):
got out hustled, they got out work, they got out energied.
Louisville came out and was aggressive in Indiana didn't respond
and just really collapsed and folded. And you watch them
play and there's confusion, you know, still twelve games into
the season, Like two guys aren't on the same page
of how are they gonna guard a pick and roll?
(15:41):
Are they gonna switch? Are they gonna it's a drop coverage?
Are they gonna are gonna blitz the guy? And and
then after it's over, like two guys are talking to
each other like I thought we were doing this, and
I thought we were doing this. It's like and you
see so many plays where guys don't block out. Uh
you know they're a guy miss a contested shot and
(16:02):
two EU guys will be staying underneath the basket and
some Nebraska guy comes right between them, splits them and
grabs the ball and dunks it. That happened. You'll see
a lot of overhelp on defense where shooters are left
alone on the perimeter for open threes, which we've happened
over and over again. You see bad shot selection of
(16:27):
guys taken threes early in the shot clock that are
not great shots, or guys that shouldn't really be shooting them,
don't have the track ord of making threes. You see
guys taking seventeen foot twos, which are the worst shot
you can take, and you see, I don't know, you
(16:50):
just you just don't see guys that are like cohesive
as a unit focused on These are the two or
three things that this team's really going to be good
at and build an identity. And it is the margin
of victory does matter. To get beat by Louisville, I
don't know what it ended up being, but they were
down by thirty eight. Was thirty eight at one point,
(17:11):
wasn't it? It was close to four? Yeah, And then
Gonzaga it was over late in the first half. And
Nebraska they come out and fall behind thirteen to three,
and Baco it's not the game. He got two fouls
in the first thirty three seconds out in the perimeter
reaching for some reason that you shouldn't do that. They
get back in the game because Rice went crazy, and
(17:33):
then they just totally collapse over the last seven and
a half minutes. It's like those games plus all the
games that got blown up by Nebraska last year, plus
the other games they got blown out up by Purdue
or Penn State, and then the year before getting blown
up by Miami and Kansas and Arizona, and the year
before that getting blown up by Saint Mary. It's just
like when they lose, they lose decisively, and it just
(17:58):
gives the impression of like a team that's not tenacious,
of like there's nobody saying we're not going to lose
by twenty today, We're gonna make it a one or
two possession game. And I don't know whether it's it's
it's got to be coaching at some level. If guys
are just not they're just not engaged in being tenacious
and competitive. And you watch other teams play that really
(18:24):
are committed to playing defense. You watch guys that are
in their defensive stance, they're trying to, you know, get
in passing lanes. They're trying to be aggressive and get
steals and convert defense into easy offense. You don't consistently
see that from Indiana. And it's a reflect it's reflected
in the in the numbers. When you see games when
(18:45):
other teams are shooting over fifty percent or averaging you know,
one point two or one point four points per possession.
It's just mind boggling, and it's not it's your four now.
And it's like these were supposed to be better players
that everybody knows that you had a very generous nil
budget and they got guys who were highly rated out
(19:07):
of the portal. But it's not translating into really any
better performance, a marginally better performance than was given last year.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
How much do you think Woodson's hurt himself just by
the way he kind of approaches mean, you mentioned the
comments that he made on on Senior Day last year
with the true fans thing, which I think comes up
with a lot of people, but also just the way
when and I've noticed this for a couple of years now,
because you know, I've tried to ask specific questions on
(19:38):
like maybe what's gone wrong, and I know numerous reporters.
I mean, I believe after the last game there was
a couple of questions about the performance, and it's like,
rather than explaining from a basketball perspective, like what's gone
wrong or what they have to do better, it'll say
some things like getting over the hump, or we just
got to keep working.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And I think a lot of people. I fans are.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
One of the more intelligent fan bases in the country
when it comes to talking basketball and how closely they
pay attention. And I think it just rings hollow to
a lot of people when there's no explanation given for
why these things are happening over and over and they're
not being fixed. And I think a lot of people
are just frustrated and don't want to hear from Woodson
anymore because he continuously doesn't have an explanation for what's
(20:26):
going on.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I don't know if he.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Doesn't know how to fix it, if he doesn't know
how to articulate what's going wrong. But it never seems
like there's any firm explanation other than we just have
to get back to work. It's like, what are they
actually working on that we don't know?
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, I agree, I mean he's I think I listened
to the post of driving back from Notre Dame. I
listened to his postgame comments with Don Fisher, and is
that the one where he said the starters were atrocious
or whatever our effort was, our performance was atrocious.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
And Mike Schumann, I think of the Daily Hoosier asked
him about like not being able to put together a
forty minute game and he said he like disagreed or something.
That they played against South Carolina and Providence. It's like, well,
what about Louisville, Gonzaga and Nebraska. I mean, you didn't
put anything close to forty minutes ago. And there's been
other times where people have just asked for specifics and
it's just like, we just got to keep working. And
(21:15):
I think people are tired of kind of hearing that
as an explanation for what's been going on.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, they are tired of They're tired of hearing got
to get him over the hump. They're tired of hearing them.
Got to get him back in the gym and figure
that out or fix that. And it's like, how are
you going to fix it? And you what are you
doing to fix it? And why hasn't it been fixed?
And why does it keep happening? Why do you let
guys get away with I mean there are a couple
of guys in the team that I'm not going to
mention any names, but they don't really seem to have
(21:43):
much interest in playing defense. I mean they kind of
just go through the motions. They're not really you know,
they're they're out there, but they're not trying to make
their man uncomfortable. God teams that are good, I mean
the coach really demands that players play defense at a
level of it's more important than offense. You know, that's
(22:05):
really the way you're going to win road games. I mean,
just get out there and make the other team know
that you're there and they're not going to get any
easy points. And there's a couple of guys on I
used team who they just if you watch them, they're
not down in a stance. They're they're standing more upright.
They're kind of like paying attention to where they're supposed
to be. But they're not playing defense with the urgency
(22:27):
that you see really good teams play it with. And
if you watch games, you watch a Rick Patino team play,
they don't do that. If you're doing that, you're gonna sit.
You know. If you watch Painters teams play defense and
Indiana's not, they don't do that. And that's I think
one thing that fans have locked in on is he
(22:48):
doesn't hold players accountable. It's like when Rice through that
seventy foot pass that slammed off the backboard, I mean,
it's game twelve, man, that's not what are you doing that?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
That?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
That's play around basketball. That's AAU basketball. That's not you
can't make plays like that on a serious college basketball team.
You can't do that. It's it's and you've got to
say to if you're gonna do that, you're gonna sit
here the rest of the game. You're not gonna play.
He's a he's an experienced player. He has to know,
but he only could, He only will do that if
(23:20):
he knows he's not going to be held accountable for
doing it. Uh. And so that's what it is. And
I think people have tuned out and listening to what
Woodson says because they know that it's just words. There's
no he's not backing it up with any with making
players actually do what they're supposed to do and hold
(23:41):
them accountable when they don't do it. And you reach
a point in any coaches regime where at some point
fans say, I don't have confidence anymore in this guy
getting it figured out. And I think you know it's
been reached with from what I people I talked to,
the things that I read, I mean, got a lot
(24:02):
of fans are already there.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, I mean you mentioned that pass off the backboard
the miles Rice through that game. There's been countless examples
this season in other games where guys have thrown passes,
whether it be these forced post entry passes for the
top of the key where the ball goes off the rim.
There was even a pass that Canaan Carlisle through at
one point that actually went in that kind of made
(24:27):
it made its rounds on social media is like this
is a great play. It's like he was actually trying
to pass that ball and it was so far off
that it went in the basket. And I agree with you,
it just it's an undisciplined style of play when you
continuously have those types of turnovers and the fact that
they continue to happen says that there's no repercussions when
(24:48):
when they do, because otherwise guys would would stop doing
that kind of stuff, and it it's just not a
fun style of basketball to watch from that perspective. The
other thing I would say, and and I'm just kind
of curious on your thoughts if this is kind of
maybe something that that is maybe a little bit overblown.
It doesn't ever seem that Woodson brings energy on the sidelines.
(25:10):
It's it's like he stands there and watches the game.
But you watch some of these other coaches on the sideline,
I mean, they're I'm not advocating for the return of
you know, a Tom Crean demeanor on the sideline where
he's pacing up and down and maybe doing some things
that are over the top. But it doesn't seem like
Woodson projects much energy when he's on the sideline. And
(25:33):
a lot of times teams will kind of take on
the persona of their coach on the sideline, and I
wonder if how laid back he is, these guys kind
of just kind of go with with that in terms
of how they're going to approach the game.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, he does seem to stand there with his arms
crossed a lot of the time, and you know he'll
occasionally call time out, but it's you can get the
impression just from watching that he's more of an observer
than a participant. I don't know how engaged he is
in the huddle or not. He seems to be fairly engaged,
but he he doesn't. He doesn't project the the personality
(26:08):
of a coach who's like ready to like hold people.
If you screw up something real basic, like a three
quarter cord pass off the backboard or not blocking out
that you're going to hear about it and you're gonna
sit and there's gonna be repercussions. And they play that
way like there's not going to be any repercussions for
not being fundamentally sound, and you know that's some coaches
(26:33):
can get away with that. I mean, if you win
and you're that style, it's like you're viewed positively as
like he doesn't put pressure on his players and he's
relaxed and he's got it under control and he's, uh,
he's not overreacting. And if you're real hyper and a
team isn't playing, isn't playing well, then people will say
you're you know, you're neurotic, or you're putting too much
(26:53):
pressure on your guys. So that's a fine line to walk.
But when you're not winning, people are gonna look at
your body language and how you're acting and they're going
to immediately default to the fact that you're not making
your players play with that competitive edge. I mean, Woodson
played for Night. He couldn't have got away with any
(27:14):
of that stuff when he played with Knight that he
lets players get away with. I mean, if Isaiah Thomas
would have thrown a through quarter length pass off the backboard,
he would have sat for quite a while. And I
don't know, I just I don't get it myself.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
How much do you think Signetti's success coming in and
being able to turn things around as quickly as he
has with basically, you know, he didn't flipped the entire roster,
but flipped a lot of guys. But in a sport
that's even more difficult, I think to have a one
year turnaround than college basketball, and college basketball realistically you
need what six or seven really good players and you
(27:50):
can flip a team in one year. I mean, we
look at what Kentucky and Mark Pope have done in
one year. They basically haven't essential a whole new roster
in the ranked in the top ten. So if you
get the right guy. But I think it's been a
little bit more magnified in Bloomington because you see what
Signetti has done in one year, and then you get
to the year four of Woodson. He brings in all
(28:10):
of these you know, high priced and il transfers and
the success. I mean, they're they're marginally better than what
they were last season, but they're not. They're not and
I don't think in the top fifty of Ken Palm.
You look at most of the tournament projections right now,
they're on the outside looking in. So I think that
I think Signetti's success and the way he's kind of
(28:32):
running his program have put even more pressure on Woodson.
And well, it'll be interesting to see kind of how
it all plays out the rest of the year.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
But I think the the.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Fact that football is now over, as you mentioned earlier,
and uh, Signetti kind of just really flipping the page
on IU football in one year has really boosted up
the pressure on Woodson.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
There's no doubt about it. There's a lot of people
that look at him and say they need a basketball
coach who does what he does, who projects confidence, who
projects you know, knowledge of I got a plan, and
my plan works, and I'm going to execute that plan.
I'm now going to back down to anybody. Uh. I'm
gonna win games I'm not supposed to win uh, and
(29:17):
I'm gonna I'm gonna keep doing it. And you know,
it translates itself in a second way, and that I
think it reflects positively on Scott Dolson of and it
gives Dolson the credibility that when he has the free
reign to go out and you know, look at candidates,
that he identified a guy that can you know, fix
it and fix an EU football. Not only is football
(29:38):
more difficult sport to win in, it's IU football with
a program that had the most losses of any power
for school, a program that hasn't won a bowl game
since nineteen ninety one, a program that's traditionally considered the
doormat of the Big Ten. And for him to come
in and you know, win at IU the way he won,
people are you know, right to say, how come basketball
(30:01):
can't do this? And you mentioned Pope. Not only Pope
and Kentucky has a whole new roster. The Louisville team
that beat him by twenty eight points has a whole
new roster and a whole new coaching staff, strength, conditioning staff, media, whatever,
the whole thing. The whole program is entirely different. And
they didn't make any and they're down well, they had
one of them in that game, but they were down
(30:22):
case and Pryor did play against Indiana, but they've been
had some injury problems, and they they probably from what
I saw on one website, and they have a better
projection to make the NCAA Tournament than Indiana does. And
so we're in a world where you know, people don't
want excuses anymore. They won't And this is year four
(30:44):
and the trend line is going the wrong direction. Usually,
if a coach is going to get it going in
the right direction, he might struggle the first year or
two and then get a little bit better in the
third year, and then by the fourth year it's starting
to ascend like Crean did. And then you factor in
the recruiting misfires, and that just adds to the there's
(31:08):
just a lot of angst out there among people that
follow Indiana basketball really closely, of like, the recruiting's not
going well, and they're not winning the way they're supposed
to winning, and they're not really playing the way expect
an IU two T team to play. And after the
Winthrop game, isn't there a stretch where there's eleven straight
games where Ken Palm has them not saying they're going
(31:30):
to lose them all, but they're not favored in any
of them.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And yeah, I believe they have Rutgers at home, and
they play Penn State of the Pleustra, which is going
to be a difficult game. Then they have USC at home,
and then after that, I think they go to Iowan.
That begins that stretch where I think that's where it
could have a chance to get. If they're not able
to I would say probably win three, four, five of
those games in eleven game stretch, that they'll have really
(31:55):
no chance to make the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That was kind of what I was going to ask.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
You last was realistic With what they've done in the
non conference, they only have what the wins against South
Carolina and Providence, which two tournament teams unlikely to make
the tournament. Realistically, doesn't it feel like they're gonna have
to win twelve thirteen Big Ten games to make the
NCAA tournament and what's going to be a super competitive
year in the Big Ten.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah, yeah, because they don't have any quality non conference wins.
I mean, South Carolina has won a few games since then,
they've turned out to be a little bit better than
I thought they were, but the SEC's loaded, so they're
probably going to take a bunch of losses this year.
In Providence is the second half of the Big second
division of the Big East team. So yeah, and you
look at what they've done so far, it's hard to
project them winning twelve Big Ten games. I think where
(32:39):
the analytics have them going nine to eleven or ten
and ten, and even at that, from where the season started,
some people were projecting them to win the Big Ten.
Others were saying top four in the Big Ten. And
now the goalpost has moved in a different area of like, well,
they might be able to make the tournament, and in
year four that shouldn't be what the expectation is. Yeah,
(32:59):
they're gonna make the tournament, and you'refore the expectation should
be safely in the tournament and get to the second weekend.
And I don't think anybody is forecasting that, you know,
here on December twenty sixth that I don't think they're
going to make the tournament. Myself, That's what I've seen
when I've watched. I watched the Louisville loss, I watched
(33:21):
the Gonzaga loss, and I watched the Nebraska loss, and
the way they just just don't fight when there's adversity
and they get beat. Just the double figure losses are
just it's hard to look beyond that and say this
is a team that's going to be successful in the
law run. They don't do enough things right and it
doesn't you know, I could it doesn't even seem like
(33:45):
the team fits together well with the two big men
on the court. At the same time, it's not a
team that fits. The pieces don't fit the way the
really good teams that I see fit.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, I think the biggest problem I see as just
the lack of an identity. I mean, a lot of other.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Teams you you you can watch and you can kind
of tell, like on a game to game basis, this
is what this team's trying to do.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Well.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
With Louisville, they're gonna they're gonna come and play with
a lot of energy. They're gonna take a lot of threes.
They're gonna they're not gonna take an along twos. They're
basically gonna either shoot layups, they're gonna shoot three pointers.
Kind of the same thing with Mark Pope and Kentucky.
They're gonna take a lot of threes, they're gonna play
with a lot of energy. They're gonna pressure you defensively.
You know, I couldn't tell you what Indiana Basketball's identity
(34:32):
is right now as a team. What what do they
do well consistently? What can you expect from them on
a game to game basis. I don't really know what
that is, and I think that I think that is
a bigger indictment than anything else on on what this
program is right now under Mike Woodson. That it's year
four and you can't really point to one thing that
on a game to game basis that they're gonna do well.
(34:52):
I mean, some games, maybe they'll rebound the ball well,
but it's not consistent. Some games, maybe they'll take care
of the ball relatively well and play with a little
pace and get up and down, score some transition points.
Not every game. And I'm not saying they have to
be a lead in any one area or have one
thing that they're calling card. But even if you look
at the trend line on their defense, the first year
the Woodson was there, they were I think twenty fourth
(35:15):
and Ken Palm by season's in and adjust the defensive
efficiency had the best defense in the Big Ten and
in conference games, and it's kind of slid backwards every year.
I can't point to one thing on a game to
game basis that they try to do well or emphasize.
And I think that's a huge problem kind of when
you watch the team, they don't have an identity.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
I think that's true, and I think, you know, if
you really ask me, I'd say what he's most comfortable doing,
what he would like to do is beat you in
the post and recruits with Ballow and Renew, those are
guys who are most effective in the low post. Neither
one of them are as effective or as good in
the low post as Trace Jackson Davis was or as
(35:59):
Coloe Ware was. So that's one reason they've follow us.
Not as good as either one of those guys. Uh,
And that's one reason I think they've struggled. But I
think that's still what Mike Woodson wants to do is
is beat you with superior post play. Uh. And they
don't have superior post play this year, and it's an issue.
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
It's I mean, looking at that Nebraska game though, it's
like Nebraska had that the big man from I think
is like North Dakota State that transferred in and Fred
Hoiberg was able to basically get them to not be
able to get the ball inside. It's like the good
teams in college basketball, they dictate what they're going to
do to you that they don't let you dictate what
(36:39):
you're how the game is going to be played. And
and that's I mean, the best coaches and the best
teams are going to get you to play the way
that that they want to play. In Indiana doesn't do
that consistently, then that's that game is a perfect example
where Nebraska can just say we've got a couple of
you know, average big I mean, nobody was knocking on
(37:01):
the door of that of those transfers to get those guys,
and they forced Indiana to take all those threes, they
didn't make any of them, and that was kind of
the ballgame. So kind of going back to what I'm saying,
it's just it doesn't seem like, you know, you mentioned
the postplay, they that it is kind of what they
want to do. But that game was a perfect example
of not being able to get to that strength and
(37:24):
what happened down the stretch when they couldn't get there,
they couldn't score.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, I mean the best offensive stretch they had in
the whole game basically is when Miles Rice just went
one on one right and got really hot. Other than that,
when he wasn't able to do that offensively, they struggled.
And you know, that's that's coaching. They didn't they were
not able to I'm not sure what the game plan was,
but they weren't able to execute it or impose their
will on the other team. And that's going to be
(37:50):
an issue if you can't do that. So I don't know,
it's when is the Who's the first Big Ten game
after the Winthrop?
Speaker 1 (38:00):
It's at home a week from today, okay, And uh,
you know, Rutgers is okay.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
They got two really good freshmen. Dylan Harper might be
the best freshmen in the country. Uh, And Rutgers has
a Rutgers will compete, Rutgers will play defense, and Rutgers
will play hard. And Rutgers is absolutely not scared of
coming into assembly all and winning games and.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Sila and Harper watched his brother come in many times
assembly on win games.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
So he's gonna and that's.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
What people are going to be looking at. I mean,
I've said this before.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It's not just.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Little stats like losing four games in Nebraska by fIF
four games and are in Nebraska by fifteen points or more.
Is an alarming statistic that Indiana's at a point where
they got blown out four straight games by Nebraska. Nebraska
didn't make the tournament last year. They might not make
the tournament.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
They made it last year, did ye? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Okay, well how many games did they win? Any leave?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
They lost the first game?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Okay, so they lost to a marginal Big Ten team. Uh,
they barely made the tournament. So it's just it's not good.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I mean, they they've they've routine routinely of I think
the only team that Woodson's unbeaten against some Big Ten
play is Minnesota. But you know, Penn State had several
games where they've they've beaten Indiana. Another team that they've
really struggled with is Northwestern over a long time.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Rutgers Rutgers.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I mean, these are just you know, these are these
are teams that you have to routinely beat. I think
if you're if you're an Indiana if you but but again,
I think a lot of people would also argue, well,
Indiana hasn't been Indiana for a long time, and that's
kind of the whole point of tying it back to
the beginning of our discussion. Yeah, they just haven't had
the the right mindset of the right coach in place.
I don't think to get things back to where, you know,
(39:56):
I think the frustrating thing is, you know, this fan
base has supported this for so long unconditionally. You've got
people that you know, listen to the podcasts like this,
read our work on Inside the Hall. You've got people
that support all these different media outlets to cover the team.
You have people showing up, buying season tickets, paying for parking,
paying for concessions, and they show up and the product
(40:17):
on the court is not in line with even you know,
It's one thing if you show up for a game
and get beat and it's a competitive game, but when
you're continuously getting blown out in some of these games,
I mean, think about if you spent thousands of dollars
to go down to Bahamas and the first game you're
down there Louisville with a completely new roster's got you
down thirty eight in the first game.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
How are you feeling as a fan? Not very good?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So I think the fan frustration at this point is
completely justified. Obviously there's a lot to play out here.
Nineteen games left in the regular season.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Who knows, Indiana.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Could you know, exceed expectations and but the body of
evidence is such right now that it doesn't seem like
that's going to be the case. But we'll be following
in every step of the way and watching closely.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
For the record.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Nebraska, yeah, they did make the tournament. They got blown
out by Texas A and M, who scored ninety eight
points on them in the first game in the NCAA tournament,
So it's not like they got beat by a final
four team. And palm Roy has him finishing eight and
twelve in the Big Ten and Torvick has him finishing
nine and eleven. That'll be two straight years of not
making the tournament. At that point, we'll have a whole
(41:24):
different conversation and we'll see how this goes. Because to me,
in addition to following the results, the most important thing
to follow the rest of the way is the crowds
and the behavior of the crowds. And I haven't been
up there this year, but I've talked to some media
people at Notre Dame and they said been a lot
(41:44):
of empty seats and a lot of grumbling. And we've
seen that sort of manifest itself in previous years when
Archie Miller was the coach, and I think people have
been a little bit hesitant to get overheated because of
Mike Woodson's status as a former IU player. But at
(42:06):
some point that will disappear and it'll be interesting to
see how the fan base handles a season if if
Indiana doesn't make the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, I mean, that's one of the more unfortunate parts
just of the whole the whole situation is with Woodson,
He's a He's a guy that you know, I wasn't
around to watch him play, but this is a guy
that came back from back surgery in his final year
and helped Indiana to a really good season.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Was he wasn't he big ten m v P his
last year?
Speaker 3 (42:35):
I think he was, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
And then you know, it's it just doesn't seem like
it's it's headed towards a happy ending, And that to
me is it's it's never easy. I mean, we saw
it with Patrick Ewing at Georgetown. He you know, he
had a lot longer of a stay there. But this
is kind of what happens. You hire, you know, everyone
wanted at some point I you to hire an IU
(42:59):
guy and this is kind of where it's where it's
ended up. So it's not going to be I don't
think a happy ending for anybody I evolved, especially when
you're talking about a guy who played Indiana from the State,
guy that obviously wants you to do well. This is
nothing personal against Mike Woodson, and you know, I think
he's tried his best to get the program and who knows,
(43:20):
maybe they maybe they turn things around, and you never
want to bury a team before the season's over. It
just feels like the trend is such that it's not
heading in a strong positive direction.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
No, they're going to have to change some things and
show some different kinds of results. And it's not just
this year though. I think that the reason people have
gotten alarmed is they remember last year and they remember,
you know, the year before, and they they and there's
still people they default to the Archie Miller years and
(43:53):
they default to the Cream years. They haven't seen the
consistent performance that you see from Peru. You haven't seen
the consistent performance of making the tournament like you see
from Michigan State, and they don't understand what's happened and
why it can't get why Indiana can't at least establish
a baseline performance of always being in the first division
(44:17):
of the Big Ten. I mean, they don't understand that,
and there's people outside of EYU that don't understand it either,
And so I think that that's when you get to
the point where fans don't care about that anymore, then
you're in a worse position because then they're just disinterested.
They've checked out, they don't The fact that people are
(44:38):
still engaged enough and upset about it is a positive
sign because it keeps pressure on the program in the
athletic department to succeed. When they get to the point
where they shrug and accept it, that's when you're really
in trouble.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Absolutely well, we'll continue to have coverage on Inside the Hall,
and of course you're on podcasts on the Brink. Indiana's
im back in action this weekend Sunday at Assembly Hall.
I'm going to host Winthrop before resuming Big Ten play
a week from today, January two. I believe that is
against the Rutgers at all. Believe that game is on Peacock.
(45:14):
So I'm ready to hear the outrage from ever ready
on social media when the game starts at why is
this game on Peacock as usually is the case when
game goes on a streaming service. But thanks everybody as
always for listening to this episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
Thank you to madad Rick Bozich for joining us this
week on Podcast on the Brink. If you enjoy the show,
(45:35):
please leave us a rating or review over on Apple Podcasts,
leave us a five star rating on Spotify, and we'll
be back soon with another episode of podcast on the Brink.
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
It's Thursday, December twenty sixth. I hope everyone had a
great holiday. No weeks off for Podcasts on the Brink.
Where we are in the middle of the IU basketball season.
The Hoosiers get back in action on Sunday afternoon against Winthrop,
final non conference game of the season. Before we dive
(00:38):
in to this week's episode of Podcasts on the Brink,
wanted to take a moment and remind you that this
episode is brought to you by our friends at Visit Bloomington.
Visit Bloomington's also a proud partner of Indiana University Athletics.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Right now, Visit.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Bloomington is giving you and one friend the chances for
free Who's Your Basketball tickets. Go to visit bloomington dot
com Forward Slash Contest contest with an S on the
end and enter the IU Men's basketball giveaway. The winners
will also receive a fifteen dollars gift card to Bucetto's
Pizza and Pasta. The website once again is visit Bloomington
dot com. Forward Slash Contest. That's contest with an S
(01:14):
on the end. Terms and conditions apply. Se site for details.
Bucetto is actually a really good spot, miss having it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I live in Louisville.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
They used to be a location down here. You used
to love going there for lunch, and it's no longer here.
So I want to do it a chance to get
up to Bloomington. I like to make a stop there.
This week's episode of Podcast on the Brink, we're joined
by my dad, Rick Bozic WDRB dot com. Back with
us on the show. I think this has been your
first episode with us since the basketball season started, but
(01:45):
I'm going to first start with something a little bit
more positive on this week's show, the IU football season
that just ended eleven and two the Who's Yours finished?
You were up there in South Bend for the college
football playoff game. You've been watching IU football for a
long time. Can you just put into context what how
maybe I'm improbable the season is in kind of the
(02:07):
scope of history value football, and maybe where it ranks
for you in terms of the seasons that you've had
a chance.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
To watch AU football over the course of your lifetime.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Wow, in terms of improbable, it'd be like a ten
or ten plus. I mean when you. I remember when
Signette got hired and some of the stuff he said
early on, thinking do do you not know the history
of value football? That's not going to be possible. And
I remember a lot of people early in the year predicting, yeah,
they're going to be six and oh, yeah, they might
(02:39):
be you know, eight oh or seven and one, and
it's like, come on, I mean, that's not going to happen.
And it did happen, and he was able to get
people to fill the stadium, which hasn't happened consistently for
a long long time. He was able to get an
untold amount of free national publicity not only for the
(03:00):
football program, but for Indiana University athletics, Indiana University, Bloomington, whatever,
which I'm sure will translate into more donations to the
program or the athletic department, and the more which we've
seen at other schools, more out of state students being
(03:21):
interested in coming to EE you because football is such
an important part of our culture. And then the product
was a great product. I mean I went to I
ended up going to five games, and the first one
I went to was Maryland, and Maryland's a team that
had beaten Indiana pretty consistently in the last few years,
and now you beat them decisively. And then they beat
Nebraska even more decisively fifty six to seven. And then
(03:45):
they beat Washington, which was in the National Championship game
last year. And then they lost to Ohio State and
they lost a Notre Dame. But you know, there's some reasons.
I'd say sixty seven resonates more with me, just because
that's when I was started in the fol college football
and that team was known for winning close games, pulling
(04:05):
them out in the fourth quarter, running fake punts, doing
stuff to win games they weren't supposed to win. And
then they had a beat Purdue in the last game
of the year to win the Big Ten title and
go to They actually did go to the Rose Bowl
and played against O. J. Simpson and USC when USC
(04:26):
was one of the three or four biggest brands in
college football and played them a competitive game. They lost
fourteen to three, but it was a competitive game. This year,
you know, they they didn't win the Big Ten. They
they were in the playoff, but they weren't in a
bowl game. I mean, you know, the playoff is a
bigger deal, but it's not as glamorous sort of as
(04:47):
a bowl game would be, especially the Rose Bowl. But
there's more reason to be excited, I think now because
of what's happened in the four or five days since
the game, with getting three or four players to they're
going to come back, and getting two or three really
nice commitments out of the portal, and feeling there's just
a feeling around Signetti. If people are convinced that he
(05:12):
is a good coach who has a planned, he knows
how to execute his plan, and the fact that they
were able to get every assistant coach but one to
come back for another year. There's just so much positivity
around the program. And you got to figure the season
ticket sales will jump up a big amount next year,
and you got to figure that he's going to be
the kind of guy who's gonna, you know, be able
(05:34):
to stack winning seasons. That's what all you needs to do.
They need to stack. That's the next step. Stacked winning seasons.
Not go from eleven to two to four and eight
or something like that. At least you know, win seven
or eight games next year, and you know, get people
believing that the commitment to football is real.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, it's it's been obviously don't cover football on Inside
the Hall, but been a lot of a lot of
fun to watch this season and just follow along with
you mentioned the positivity and the confidence the way that
Kurt Signetti runs his program, and it kind of helps
me transition into the situation right now with IU men's basketball,
(06:17):
and it just kind of seems like the programs are
operating on a completely different wavelength in terms of how
they're presenting themselves. Signetti obviously in press conferences, always a
good quote, always projecting positivity, a lot of energy. Mike
Woodson not so much on a lot of those kind
(06:38):
of those those same topics. But going back a little
bit further, you know, you covered IU basketball, going back
to your days and Bloomington as a student. You're around
for the Bod Night era, and since Night has been
gone from Bloomington as the coach, it seems like I
just kind of been stuck in this endless cycle of
just going through co coach. And obviously Tom Creane was
(07:02):
there for nine years, but he was there the longest,
but you had a situation with Mike Davis where he
took over on the interim basis and had that one
good season where they were able to go to the
national Championship game. You had the Kelvin Sampson situation where
he came in and broke in CAA rules and was
obviously dismissed pretty quickly. You had a brief tenure there
(07:22):
from Dan Dockets as an interim coach, and you had
the Crean era, which had its I think a lot
of value. Fans at this point would take kind of
the ups of the Creen era based on what they've
seen the last eight years under Archie Miller and Mike Woodson.
But Creane never really had that consistency. Archie Miller we know,
and now to the present with Mike Woodson. But my
question is why do you think Indiana basketball kind of
(07:45):
keeps getting back to the same spot where they have
maybe a couple of seasons where things seem to be
going right, but they just can't seem to stack that consistency.
Even going back to the early years of the Woodson era.
The biggest compliment I gave him after the first two
years was he kind of them back to a little
place of stability where they made the tournament two straight years.
I thought that was important when he came in and
then last year obviously the fall off with that team,
(08:08):
and then this year it's just seems like something is missing,
is not there, And I'm curious if you can pinpoint
anything or you have any thoughts on just why. I
you kind of seems to get back to the spot
time and time again where they can't stack together any
consistency year over year.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, there's a lot of different ways I can go
with that. One is to make it overly simplistic. They
just haven't found the right guy who checks all the
different boxes. Even now, twenty five years after he was fired,
any coach that comes to Indiana is compared with Bob
(08:47):
Knight in the minds of a lot of different fans.
And although most of his top of the line success
happened in his first sixteen or seventeen years, and you know,
there wasn't another Final four after Night Team ninety two,
and you know, the last few years weren't as good
as the earlier years he was. He went to the
tournament every year, was never even a belief that Indiana
(09:09):
was gonna not gonna make the tournament. I mean they
were going to make the tournament. They had that that
was a minimum bar of success. And it fell off
under Davis, and he was dealing with, you know, a
fractured fan base, and people turned on him. And even
though you know, when he was there he did a
(09:31):
fairly job good job of recruiting. They were getting pretty
good players. For a number of years, he just wasn't
able to win consistently, and the heat got turned up
to such a point that he quit in the middle
of the season. I mean, the word came out that
he wasn't going to finish the season. And even that
season when he got fired, they went to the tournament
and won a game. I mean, because I remember I
covered him. It was in Salt Lake City. I think
(09:54):
they lost. They beat somebody, and they lost to Gonzaga.
And then they picked Sam, who you know, in retrospect
would have been a coach you probably would have won
multiple national championships in Indiana. But he didn't follow the rules,
and because he hadn't followed the rules earlier at Oklahoma,
even though it's not a rule anymore, he had to
(10:16):
go and the program got decimated and Crean had to
build it back from zero, and that was before the
transfer portal, and the way he went about doing it,
it took him really, I mean into his fourth season
before he was, you know, projecting much positive momentum, and.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
He was.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
His success was too inconsistent of you know, making the tournament,
making sweet sixteens and then missing the tournament. And for
a lot of IU fans, once you make a couple
of sweet sixteens, it's like, well sweet sixteen isn't good enough.
You got to make it the lead eight or final four.
And recruiting that one year when he didn't get any
of the n State players. That was the Scrugs and
(10:58):
Wilkes and Jackson, and I forgot who the fourth one was,
the Malik Williams. Maybe I think it was people turned
on him. And then there was a tremendous amount of
excitement about Archie because of his name and his brother's success,
and he had been to an elite at Dayton, and uh,
(11:20):
he actually did a decent job recruiting. He got Romeo
and Trace, Jackson, Davis and some other people, but he
didn't really have the temperament of the personality for the job.
He just wanted to coach ball, I think, and that's
not what the job is at Indiana or you know,
a lot of big ten type level jobs, and so
he had to go and then they brought in Woodson,
(11:44):
and he's done the minimum I think, the first two years,
and then the positive momentum disappeared last year and for
a variety of reasons, which a lot of people have
talked about, whether it was the Senior Day comments or
the lack of success in recruiting, or not making the
(12:05):
tournament and getting blown out in so many games, getting
swept by Nebraska. I could go on and on that
people have started to turn on him, and they really
haven't given the fan base enough encouragement this season to
buy back in. And I believe that Woodson's been fortunate
(12:26):
that IU football has been good this year because a
lot of IU fans haven't really turned their focus to
basketball yet. But now that football's over and they've only
got one non conference game to go, that's going to happen,
and it's going to be interesting to see how the
fans respond to the way the team has played, if
they continue to play the way they've played so far
(12:46):
this year.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yeah, So watching this team of close as I have
all season, and I have obviously for many years, it's
it's a little bit perplexed because I went down there
for that exhibition game at Tennessee and I thought Indiana played. Now,
it obviously doesn't count in the standings, but there was
(13:11):
a good crowd there. I would say twelve to thirteen
thousand people. It wasn't obviously completely full, but it's it's
it was played, I thought, for the most part, with
the intensity of a regular season game.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Obviously, as I said, as much as an exhibition can be.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
But you know, I thought both teams showed up to play,
and Indiana didn't actually play great, but they they want
They figured out a way to win that game, and
I think that gave a lot of people some confidence
at the minimum this team would come out and be,
you know, middle half of the Big ten or better
potential NCAA tournament team, And kind of as we watched
(13:48):
the season unfold, they obviously had some decent moments early,
but when they go to the Bahamas and get blown
out by Louisville and Gonzaga and then have the game
like they had in Nebraska, you've kind of seen the
players have changed and but the results mostly have stayed
the same in the kind of these big, big time
games for Indiana so far, this season, and for you know,
(14:13):
just evaluating this as objectively as possible is the biggest
concern do you think from the fans or from people
who watch this team closely? Just how badly Indiana gets
beaten in some of these games? Is the way they
sometimes look lack you know, lack of preparation and how
they come out and play.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Is it the lack of energy?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
What you know? If you had to pinpoint one or
two things that when you watch this team play that
are the most alarming.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
What would they be?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And why do you think people are so concerned? Maybe
even despite the nine and three record. I think a
lot of people nationally who maybe don't follow this on,
you know, as closely as we do, would say, well,
they're nine and three, that they're off to a decent start.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
We'll see what happens in Big Ten play.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
But I don't think most Indiana fans at this point
are of that same opinion.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, say it's two or three things. One is, when
you watch them play, I see a lack of attention
or appreciation for details on small things that you have
to do to win. And I'll start off just with
hustle or urgency. If you watch the Louisville game. They
(15:20):
got out hustled, they got out work, they got out energied.
Louisville came out and was aggressive in Indiana didn't respond
and just really collapsed and folded. And you watch them
play and there's confusion, you know, still twelve games into
the season, Like two guys aren't on the same page
of how are they gonna guard a pick and roll?
(15:41):
Are they gonna switch? Are they gonna it's a drop coverage?
Are they gonna are gonna blitz the guy? And and
then after it's over, like two guys are talking to
each other like I thought we were doing this, and
I thought we were doing this. It's like and you
see so many plays where guys don't block out. Uh
you know they're a guy miss a contested shot and
(16:02):
two EU guys will be staying underneath the basket and
some Nebraska guy comes right between them, splits them and
grabs the ball and dunks it. That happened. You'll see
a lot of overhelp on defense where shooters are left
alone on the perimeter for open threes, which we've happened
over and over again. You see bad shot selection of
(16:27):
guys taken threes early in the shot clock that are
not great shots, or guys that shouldn't really be shooting them,
don't have the track ord of making threes. You see
guys taking seventeen foot twos, which are the worst shot
you can take, and you see, I don't know, you
(16:50):
just you just don't see guys that are like cohesive
as a unit focused on These are the two or
three things that this team's really going to be good
at and build an identity. And it is the margin
of victory does matter. To get beat by Louisville, I
don't know what it ended up being, but they were
down by thirty eight. Was thirty eight at one point,
(17:11):
wasn't it? It was close to four? Yeah, And then
Gonzaga it was over late in the first half. And
Nebraska they come out and fall behind thirteen to three,
and Baco it's not the game. He got two fouls
in the first thirty three seconds out in the perimeter
reaching for some reason that you shouldn't do that. They
get back in the game because Rice went crazy, and
(17:33):
then they just totally collapse over the last seven and
a half minutes. It's like those games plus all the
games that got blown up by Nebraska last year, plus
the other games they got blown out up by Purdue
or Penn State, and then the year before getting blown
up by Miami and Kansas and Arizona, and the year
before that getting blown up by Saint Mary. It's just
like when they lose, they lose decisively, and it just
(17:58):
gives the impression of like a team that's not tenacious,
of like there's nobody saying we're not going to lose
by twenty today, We're gonna make it a one or
two possession game. And I don't know whether it's it's
it's got to be coaching at some level. If guys
are just not they're just not engaged in being tenacious
and competitive. And you watch other teams play that really
(18:24):
are committed to playing defense. You watch guys that are
in their defensive stance, they're trying to, you know, get
in passing lanes. They're trying to be aggressive and get
steals and convert defense into easy offense. You don't consistently
see that from Indiana. And it's a reflect it's reflected
in the in the numbers. When you see games when
(18:45):
other teams are shooting over fifty percent or averaging you know,
one point two or one point four points per possession.
It's just mind boggling, and it's not it's your four now.
And it's like these were supposed to be better players
that everybody knows that you had a very generous nil
budget and they got guys who were highly rated out
(19:07):
of the portal. But it's not translating into really any
better performance, a marginally better performance than was given last year.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
How much do you think Woodson's hurt himself just by
the way he kind of approaches mean, you mentioned the
comments that he made on on Senior Day last year
with the true fans thing, which I think comes up
with a lot of people, but also just the way
when and I've noticed this for a couple of years now,
because you know, I've tried to ask specific questions on
(19:38):
like maybe what's gone wrong, and I know numerous reporters.
I mean, I believe after the last game there was
a couple of questions about the performance, and it's like,
rather than explaining from a basketball perspective, like what's gone
wrong or what they have to do better, it'll say
some things like getting over the hump, or we just
got to keep working.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And I think a lot of people. I fans are.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
One of the more intelligent fan bases in the country
when it comes to talking basketball and how closely they
pay attention. And I think it just rings hollow to
a lot of people when there's no explanation given for
why these things are happening over and over and they're
not being fixed. And I think a lot of people
are just frustrated and don't want to hear from Woodson
anymore because he continuously doesn't have an explanation for what's
(20:26):
going on.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I don't know if he.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Doesn't know how to fix it, if he doesn't know
how to articulate what's going wrong. But it never seems
like there's any firm explanation other than we just have
to get back to work. It's like, what are they
actually working on that we don't know?
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, I agree, I mean he's I think I listened
to the post of driving back from Notre Dame. I
listened to his postgame comments with Don Fisher, and is
that the one where he said the starters were atrocious
or whatever our effort was, our performance was atrocious.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
And Mike Schumann, I think of the Daily Hoosier asked
him about like not being able to put together a
forty minute game and he said he like disagreed or something.
That they played against South Carolina and Providence. It's like, well,
what about Louisville, Gonzaga and Nebraska. I mean, you didn't
put anything close to forty minutes ago. And there's been
other times where people have just asked for specifics and
it's just like, we just got to keep working. And
(21:15):
I think people are tired of kind of hearing that
as an explanation for what's been going on.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, they are tired of They're tired of hearing got
to get him over the hump. They're tired of hearing them.
Got to get him back in the gym and figure
that out or fix that. And it's like, how are
you going to fix it? And you what are you
doing to fix it? And why hasn't it been fixed?
And why does it keep happening? Why do you let
guys get away with I mean there are a couple
of guys in the team that I'm not going to
mention any names, but they don't really seem to have
(21:43):
much interest in playing defense. I mean they kind of
just go through the motions. They're not really you know,
they're they're out there, but they're not trying to make
their man uncomfortable. God teams that are good, I mean
the coach really demands that players play defense at a
level of it's more important than offense. You know, that's
(22:05):
really the way you're going to win road games. I mean,
just get out there and make the other team know
that you're there and they're not going to get any
easy points. And there's a couple of guys on I
used team who they just if you watch them, they're
not down in a stance. They're they're standing more upright.
They're kind of like paying attention to where they're supposed
to be. But they're not playing defense with the urgency
(22:27):
that you see really good teams play it with. And
if you watch games, you watch a Rick Patino team play,
they don't do that. If you're doing that, you're gonna sit.
You know. If you watch Painters teams play defense and
Indiana's not, they don't do that. And that's I think
one thing that fans have locked in on is he
(22:48):
doesn't hold players accountable. It's like when Rice through that
seventy foot pass that slammed off the backboard, I mean,
it's game twelve, man, that's not what are you doing that?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
That?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
That's play around basketball. That's AAU basketball. That's not you
can't make plays like that on a serious college basketball team.
You can't do that. It's it's and you've got to
say to if you're gonna do that, you're gonna sit
here the rest of the game. You're not gonna play.
He's a he's an experienced player. He has to know,
but he only could, He only will do that if
(23:20):
he knows he's not going to be held accountable for
doing it. Uh. And so that's what it is. And
I think people have tuned out and listening to what
Woodson says because they know that it's just words. There's
no he's not backing it up with any with making
players actually do what they're supposed to do and hold
(23:41):
them accountable when they don't do it. And you reach
a point in any coaches regime where at some point
fans say, I don't have confidence anymore in this guy
getting it figured out. And I think you know it's
been reached with from what I people I talked to,
the things that I read, I mean, got a lot
(24:02):
of fans are already there.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, I mean you mentioned that pass off the backboard
the miles Rice through that game. There's been countless examples
this season in other games where guys have thrown passes,
whether it be these forced post entry passes for the
top of the key where the ball goes off the rim.
There was even a pass that Canaan Carlisle through at
one point that actually went in that kind of made
(24:27):
it made its rounds on social media is like this
is a great play. It's like he was actually trying
to pass that ball and it was so far off
that it went in the basket. And I agree with you,
it just it's an undisciplined style of play when you
continuously have those types of turnovers and the fact that
they continue to happen says that there's no repercussions when
(24:48):
when they do, because otherwise guys would would stop doing
that kind of stuff, and it it's just not a
fun style of basketball to watch from that perspective. The
other thing I would say, and and I'm just kind
of curious on your thoughts if this is kind of
maybe something that that is maybe a little bit overblown.
It doesn't ever seem that Woodson brings energy on the sidelines.
(25:10):
It's it's like he stands there and watches the game.
But you watch some of these other coaches on the sideline,
I mean, they're I'm not advocating for the return of
you know, a Tom Crean demeanor on the sideline where
he's pacing up and down and maybe doing some things
that are over the top. But it doesn't seem like
Woodson projects much energy when he's on the sideline. And
(25:33):
a lot of times teams will kind of take on
the persona of their coach on the sideline, and I
wonder if how laid back he is, these guys kind
of just kind of go with with that in terms
of how they're going to approach the game.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, he does seem to stand there with his arms
crossed a lot of the time, and you know he'll
occasionally call time out, but it's you can get the
impression just from watching that he's more of an observer
than a participant. I don't know how engaged he is
in the huddle or not. He seems to be fairly engaged,
but he he doesn't. He doesn't project the the personality
(26:08):
of a coach who's like ready to like hold people.
If you screw up something real basic, like a three
quarter cord pass off the backboard or not blocking out
that you're going to hear about it and you're gonna
sit and there's gonna be repercussions. And they play that
way like there's not going to be any repercussions for
not being fundamentally sound, and you know that's some coaches
(26:33):
can get away with that. I mean, if you win
and you're that style, it's like you're viewed positively as
like he doesn't put pressure on his players and he's
relaxed and he's got it under control and he's, uh,
he's not overreacting. And if you're real hyper and a
team isn't playing, isn't playing well, then people will say
you're you know, you're neurotic, or you're putting too much
(26:53):
pressure on your guys. So that's a fine line to walk.
But when you're not winning, people are gonna look at
your body language and how you're acting and they're going
to immediately default to the fact that you're not making
your players play with that competitive edge. I mean, Woodson
played for Night. He couldn't have got away with any
(27:14):
of that stuff when he played with Knight that he
lets players get away with. I mean, if Isaiah Thomas
would have thrown a through quarter length pass off the backboard,
he would have sat for quite a while. And I
don't know, I just I don't get it myself.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
How much do you think Signetti's success coming in and
being able to turn things around as quickly as he
has with basically, you know, he didn't flipped the entire roster,
but flipped a lot of guys. But in a sport
that's even more difficult, I think to have a one
year turnaround than college basketball, and college basketball realistically you
need what six or seven really good players and you
(27:50):
can flip a team in one year. I mean, we
look at what Kentucky and Mark Pope have done in
one year. They basically haven't essential a whole new roster
in the ranked in the top ten. So if you
get the right guy. But I think it's been a
little bit more magnified in Bloomington because you see what
Signetti has done in one year, and then you get
to the year four of Woodson. He brings in all
(28:10):
of these you know, high priced and il transfers and
the success. I mean, they're they're marginally better than what
they were last season, but they're not. They're not and
I don't think in the top fifty of Ken Palm.
You look at most of the tournament projections right now,
they're on the outside looking in. So I think that
I think Signetti's success and the way he's kind of
(28:32):
running his program have put even more pressure on Woodson.
And well, it'll be interesting to see kind of how
it all plays out the rest of the year.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
But I think the the.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Fact that football is now over, as you mentioned earlier,
and uh, Signetti kind of just really flipping the page
on IU football in one year has really boosted up
the pressure on Woodson.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
There's no doubt about it. There's a lot of people
that look at him and say they need a basketball
coach who does what he does, who projects confidence, who
projects you know, knowledge of I got a plan, and
my plan works, and I'm going to execute that plan.
I'm now going to back down to anybody. Uh. I'm
gonna win games I'm not supposed to win uh, and
(29:17):
I'm gonna I'm gonna keep doing it. And you know,
it translates itself in a second way, and that I
think it reflects positively on Scott Dolson of and it
gives Dolson the credibility that when he has the free
reign to go out and you know, look at candidates,
that he identified a guy that can you know, fix
it and fix an EU football. Not only is football
(29:38):
more difficult sport to win in, it's IU football with
a program that had the most losses of any power
for school, a program that hasn't won a bowl game
since nineteen ninety one, a program that's traditionally considered the
doormat of the Big Ten. And for him to come
in and you know, win at IU the way he won,
people are you know, right to say, how come basketball
(30:01):
can't do this? And you mentioned Pope. Not only Pope
and Kentucky has a whole new roster. The Louisville team
that beat him by twenty eight points has a whole
new roster and a whole new coaching staff, strength, conditioning staff, media, whatever,
the whole thing. The whole program is entirely different. And
they didn't make any and they're down well, they had
one of them in that game, but they were down
(30:22):
case and Pryor did play against Indiana, but they've been
had some injury problems, and they they probably from what
I saw on one website, and they have a better
projection to make the NCAA Tournament than Indiana does. And
so we're in a world where you know, people don't
want excuses anymore. They won't And this is year four
(30:44):
and the trend line is going the wrong direction. Usually,
if a coach is going to get it going in
the right direction, he might struggle the first year or
two and then get a little bit better in the
third year, and then by the fourth year it's starting
to ascend like Crean did. And then you factor in
the recruiting misfires, and that just adds to the there's
(31:08):
just a lot of angst out there among people that
follow Indiana basketball really closely, of like, the recruiting's not
going well, and they're not winning the way they're supposed
to winning, and they're not really playing the way expect
an IU two T team to play. And after the
Winthrop game, isn't there a stretch where there's eleven straight
games where Ken Palm has them not saying they're going
(31:30):
to lose them all, but they're not favored in any
of them.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And yeah, I believe they have Rutgers at home, and
they play Penn State of the Pleustra, which is going
to be a difficult game. Then they have USC at home,
and then after that, I think they go to Iowan.
That begins that stretch where I think that's where it
could have a chance to get. If they're not able
to I would say probably win three, four, five of
those games in eleven game stretch, that they'll have really
(31:55):
no chance to make the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That was kind of what I was going to ask.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
You last was realistic With what they've done in the
non conference, they only have what the wins against South
Carolina and Providence, which two tournament teams unlikely to make
the tournament. Realistically, doesn't it feel like they're gonna have
to win twelve thirteen Big Ten games to make the
NCAA tournament and what's going to be a super competitive
year in the Big Ten.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah, yeah, because they don't have any quality non conference wins.
I mean, South Carolina has won a few games since then,
they've turned out to be a little bit better than
I thought they were, but the SEC's loaded, so they're
probably going to take a bunch of losses this year.
In Providence is the second half of the Big second
division of the Big East team. So yeah, and you
look at what they've done so far, it's hard to
project them winning twelve Big Ten games. I think where
(32:39):
the analytics have them going nine to eleven or ten
and ten, and even at that, from where the season started,
some people were projecting them to win the Big Ten.
Others were saying top four in the Big Ten. And
now the goalpost has moved in a different area of like, well,
they might be able to make the tournament, and in
year four that shouldn't be what the expectation is. Yeah,
(32:59):
they're gonna make the tournament, and you'refore the expectation should
be safely in the tournament and get to the second weekend.
And I don't think anybody is forecasting that, you know,
here on December twenty sixth that I don't think they're
going to make the tournament. Myself, That's what I've seen
when I've watched. I watched the Louisville loss, I watched
(33:21):
the Gonzaga loss, and I watched the Nebraska loss, and
the way they just just don't fight when there's adversity
and they get beat. Just the double figure losses are
just it's hard to look beyond that and say this
is a team that's going to be successful in the
law run. They don't do enough things right and it
doesn't you know, I could it doesn't even seem like
(33:45):
the team fits together well with the two big men
on the court. At the same time, it's not a
team that fits. The pieces don't fit the way the
really good teams that I see fit.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, I think the biggest problem I see as just
the lack of an identity. I mean, a lot of other.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Teams you you you can watch and you can kind
of tell, like on a game to game basis, this
is what this team's trying to do.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Well.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
With Louisville, they're gonna they're gonna come and play with
a lot of energy. They're gonna take a lot of threes.
They're gonna they're not gonna take an along twos. They're
basically gonna either shoot layups, they're gonna shoot three pointers.
Kind of the same thing with Mark Pope and Kentucky.
They're gonna take a lot of threes, they're gonna play
with a lot of energy. They're gonna pressure you defensively.
You know, I couldn't tell you what Indiana Basketball's identity
(34:32):
is right now as a team. What what do they
do well consistently? What can you expect from them on
a game to game basis. I don't really know what
that is, and I think that I think that is
a bigger indictment than anything else on on what this
program is right now under Mike Woodson. That it's year
four and you can't really point to one thing that
on a game to game basis that they're gonna do well.
(34:52):
I mean, some games, maybe they'll rebound the ball well,
but it's not consistent. Some games, maybe they'll take care
of the ball relatively well and play with a little
pace and get up and down, score some transition points.
Not every game. And I'm not saying they have to
be a lead in any one area or have one
thing that they're calling card. But even if you look
at the trend line on their defense, the first year
the Woodson was there, they were I think twenty fourth
(35:15):
and Ken Palm by season's in and adjust the defensive
efficiency had the best defense in the Big Ten and
in conference games, and it's kind of slid backwards every year.
I can't point to one thing on a game to
game basis that they try to do well or emphasize.
And I think that's a huge problem kind of when
you watch the team, they don't have an identity.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
I think that's true, and I think, you know, if
you really ask me, I'd say what he's most comfortable doing,
what he would like to do is beat you in
the post and recruits with Ballow and Renew, those are
guys who are most effective in the low post. Neither
one of them are as effective or as good in
the low post as Trace Jackson Davis was or as
(35:59):
Coloe Ware was. So that's one reason they've follow us.
Not as good as either one of those guys. Uh,
And that's one reason I think they've struggled. But I
think that's still what Mike Woodson wants to do is
is beat you with superior post play. Uh. And they
don't have superior post play this year, and it's an issue.
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
It's I mean, looking at that Nebraska game though, it's
like Nebraska had that the big man from I think
is like North Dakota State that transferred in and Fred
Hoiberg was able to basically get them to not be
able to get the ball inside. It's like the good
teams in college basketball, they dictate what they're going to
do to you that they don't let you dictate what
(36:39):
you're how the game is going to be played. And
and that's I mean, the best coaches and the best
teams are going to get you to play the way
that that they want to play. In Indiana doesn't do
that consistently, then that's that game is a perfect example
where Nebraska can just say we've got a couple of
you know, average big I mean, nobody was knocking on
(37:01):
the door of that of those transfers to get those guys,
and they forced Indiana to take all those threes, they
didn't make any of them, and that was kind of
the ballgame. So kind of going back to what I'm saying,
it's just it doesn't seem like, you know, you mentioned
the postplay, they that it is kind of what they
want to do. But that game was a perfect example
of not being able to get to that strength and
(37:24):
what happened down the stretch when they couldn't get there,
they couldn't score.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, I mean the best offensive stretch they had in
the whole game basically is when Miles Rice just went
one on one right and got really hot. Other than that,
when he wasn't able to do that offensively, they struggled.
And you know, that's that's coaching. They didn't they were
not able to I'm not sure what the game plan was,
but they weren't able to execute it or impose their
will on the other team. And that's going to be
(37:50):
an issue if you can't do that. So I don't know,
it's when is the Who's the first Big Ten game
after the Winthrop?
Speaker 1 (38:00):
It's at home a week from today, okay, And uh,
you know, Rutgers is okay.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
They got two really good freshmen. Dylan Harper might be
the best freshmen in the country. Uh, And Rutgers has
a Rutgers will compete, Rutgers will play defense, and Rutgers
will play hard. And Rutgers is absolutely not scared of
coming into assembly all and winning games and.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Sila and Harper watched his brother come in many times
assembly on win games.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
So he's gonna and that's.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
What people are going to be looking at. I mean,
I've said this before.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It's not just.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Little stats like losing four games in Nebraska by fIF
four games and are in Nebraska by fifteen points or more.
Is an alarming statistic that Indiana's at a point where
they got blown out four straight games by Nebraska. Nebraska
didn't make the tournament last year. They might not make
the tournament.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
They made it last year, did ye? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Okay, well how many games did they win? Any leave?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
They lost the first game?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Okay, so they lost to a marginal Big Ten team. Uh,
they barely made the tournament. So it's just it's not good.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I mean, they they've they've routine routinely of I think
the only team that Woodson's unbeaten against some Big Ten
play is Minnesota. But you know, Penn State had several
games where they've they've beaten Indiana. Another team that they've
really struggled with is Northwestern over a long time.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Rutgers Rutgers.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I mean, these are just you know, these are these
are teams that you have to routinely beat. I think
if you're if you're an Indiana if you but but again,
I think a lot of people would also argue, well,
Indiana hasn't been Indiana for a long time, and that's
kind of the whole point of tying it back to
the beginning of our discussion. Yeah, they just haven't had
the the right mindset of the right coach in place.
I don't think to get things back to where, you know,
(39:56):
I think the frustrating thing is, you know, this fan
base has supported this for so long unconditionally. You've got
people that you know, listen to the podcasts like this,
read our work on Inside the Hall. You've got people
that support all these different media outlets to cover the team.
You have people showing up, buying season tickets, paying for parking,
paying for concessions, and they show up and the product
(40:17):
on the court is not in line with even you know,
It's one thing if you show up for a game
and get beat and it's a competitive game, but when
you're continuously getting blown out in some of these games,
I mean, think about if you spent thousands of dollars
to go down to Bahamas and the first game you're
down there Louisville with a completely new roster's got you
down thirty eight in the first game.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
How are you feeling as a fan? Not very good?
Speaker 1 (40:40):
So I think the fan frustration at this point is
completely justified. Obviously there's a lot to play out here.
Nineteen games left in the regular season.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Who knows, Indiana.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Could you know, exceed expectations and but the body of
evidence is such right now that it doesn't seem like
that's going to be the case. But we'll be following
in every step of the way and watching closely.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
For the record.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Nebraska, yeah, they did make the tournament. They got blown
out by Texas A and M, who scored ninety eight
points on them in the first game in the NCAA tournament,
So it's not like they got beat by a final
four team. And palm Roy has him finishing eight and
twelve in the Big Ten and Torvick has him finishing
nine and eleven. That'll be two straight years of not
making the tournament. At that point, we'll have a whole
(41:24):
different conversation and we'll see how this goes. Because to me,
in addition to following the results, the most important thing
to follow the rest of the way is the crowds
and the behavior of the crowds. And I haven't been
up there this year, but I've talked to some media
people at Notre Dame and they said been a lot
(41:44):
of empty seats and a lot of grumbling. And we've
seen that sort of manifest itself in previous years when
Archie Miller was the coach, and I think people have
been a little bit hesitant to get overheated because of
Mike Woodson's status as a former IU player. But at
(42:06):
some point that will disappear and it'll be interesting to
see how the fan base handles a season if if
Indiana doesn't make the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, I mean, that's one of the more unfortunate parts
just of the whole the whole situation is with Woodson,
He's a He's a guy that you know, I wasn't
around to watch him play, but this is a guy
that came back from back surgery in his final year
and helped Indiana to a really good season.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Was he wasn't he big ten m v P his
last year?
Speaker 3 (42:35):
I think he was, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
And then you know, it's it just doesn't seem like
it's it's headed towards a happy ending, And that to
me is it's it's never easy. I mean, we saw
it with Patrick Ewing at Georgetown. He you know, he
had a lot longer of a stay there. But this
is kind of what happens. You hire, you know, everyone
wanted at some point I you to hire an IU
(42:59):
guy and this is kind of where it's where it's
ended up. So it's not going to be I don't
think a happy ending for anybody I evolved, especially when
you're talking about a guy who played Indiana from the State,
guy that obviously wants you to do well. This is
nothing personal against Mike Woodson, and you know, I think
he's tried his best to get the program and who knows,
(43:20):
maybe they maybe they turn things around, and you never
want to bury a team before the season's over. It
just feels like the trend is such that it's not
heading in a strong positive direction.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
No, they're going to have to change some things and
show some different kinds of results. And it's not just
this year though. I think that the reason people have
gotten alarmed is they remember last year and they remember,
you know, the year before, and they they and there's
still people they default to the Archie Miller years and
(43:53):
they default to the Cream years. They haven't seen the
consistent performance that you see from Peru. You haven't seen
the consistent performance of making the tournament like you see
from Michigan State, and they don't understand what's happened and
why it can't get why Indiana can't at least establish
a baseline performance of always being in the first division
(44:17):
of the Big Ten. I mean, they don't understand that,
and there's people outside of EYU that don't understand it either,
And so I think that that's when you get to
the point where fans don't care about that anymore, then
you're in a worse position because then they're just disinterested.
They've checked out, they don't The fact that people are
(44:38):
still engaged enough and upset about it is a positive
sign because it keeps pressure on the program in the
athletic department to succeed. When they get to the point
where they shrug and accept it, that's when you're really
in trouble.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Absolutely well, we'll continue to have coverage on Inside the Hall,
and of course you're on podcasts on the Brink. Indiana's
im back in action this weekend Sunday at Assembly Hall.
I'm going to host Winthrop before resuming Big Ten play
a week from today, January two. I believe that is
against the Rutgers at all. Believe that game is on Peacock.
(45:14):
So I'm ready to hear the outrage from ever ready
on social media when the game starts at why is
this game on Peacock as usually is the case when
game goes on a streaming service. But thanks everybody as
always for listening to this episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
Thank you to madad Rick Bozich for joining us this
week on Podcast on the Brink. If you enjoy the show,
(45:35):
please leave us a rating or review over on Apple Podcasts,
leave us a five star rating on Spotify, and we'll
be back soon with another episode of podcast on the Brink.
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