March 10, 2025 • 35 mins
On this episode, Alex Bozich is joined by Ryan Corazza to wrap up IU basketball's regular season.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcast on the Brink.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It's Monday, March tenth.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm going to be.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Joined this week on Podcast on the Brink by Ryan
Caraza of Inside the Hall, author of The Minute After
and Film Session, and one of the co founders of
Inside the Hall alongside me. But before we get to
Ryan on this week's episode of Podcasts on the Brink,
wanted to take a moment remind you that Podcast on
(00:43):
the Brink brought to you by our friends at Visit Bloomington.
Visit Bloomington is a proud partner of Podcast on the
Brink in Indiana University Athletics. If you're ready to take
your Who's Your Basketball fandom to the next level, then
playing your trip to Bloomington, Indiana from iconic eats like
Nick's English Hut to explain the scenic trails of Griffy Lake,
Bloomington is your getaway to all things Who's Your and beyond.
(01:06):
Order your free visitor guide and begin planning your adventure
at visit Bloomington dot com. Although the basketball season Bloomington
is over, still a lot of good things going on
in Bloomington these days. The weather is changing great time
to be on campus, check things out, and Indiana baseball
team gonna have a plenty of home games coming up,
(01:26):
so make your way to Bloomington and check things out
the spring. Ryan, welcome back to podcast on the Brink.
It's been a while. The regular season is over. I
think probably a month ago we were maybe all hoping
it would be over sooner rather than later when Indiana
had that five game losing streak. But things have changed now.
Five wins for Indiana in their last seven games. The
(01:48):
vibe around this team, the vibe around this program much different,
and what in your mind, First of all, welcome back
to the show. It's been it's been a while, But
what in your mind is maybe contributed to this late
season turnaround that we've seen from from Indiana basketball. I
think if we were talking a month ago, we would
have all thought this was not gonna happen. It was
(02:09):
going to be a you know, kind of a depressing
into the Indiana basketball season. But as as you know,
the tide has turned here and things are feeling much
better here. As the season regular season concludes, we head
into postseason play.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Well, as usual, you know, the sky can be falling
for a segment of the season and then if some
wins come, then you know, the vibes, as you said,
are different. I think, you know, this has been typical
of Mike Woodson's teams where you know, even going back
(02:47):
to the only year they really were comfortably in the
tournament his second season, there was a January swoon there.
You know, Penn State really beat him up. They lost
a couple of games in a row, and then they
were able to you know, turn around at the end
of the season or you know, kind of turn around
from January there. And and you know, this I think
was a confluence of a couple of things. Not to
(03:07):
just credit this, but you look at some of the wins, right,
I mean, you know, Penn State and Washington are not
entrance into the Big Ten Tournament later this week to
the poor teams in the conference. Two of those wins
the Ohio State. You look at that team pretty equal
to Indiana, right, and you know that they certainly had
to kind of turn up things up at the end
(03:29):
of the game to try to get that victory. And
you know, credit to them. I think it was a good, good,
goodsy win over the weekend.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Purdue.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Woodson has always gotten his teams up for Purdue for
the most part, I think, you know, not to say
that that wasn't a good win, because it definitely was.
But you look at how Purdue's end of their season
in the Big Ten Conference. You know, they had seven losses.
You know, they're thirteen and seven. I think they ended
up six in conference, so they certainly weren't as good
(03:57):
in conference play as they have been recent years with
with Zach Edy. The Michigan State win was also you know,
I feel like I'm poking holes on all this year,
but that that was a really strange game. I think
Michigan State ended up fourteen and one this year at home,
lone loss coming to Indiana, and that was when tom
(04:21):
Izzo was about to break Bob Knight's all time record
for wins in the in the Big Ten. And you know,
Indiana played zone for much of that game, which they
did for a little bit in that during that time
of the season, something they really have completely abandoned.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Again.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I just think Michigan State mentally and kind of emotionally
was a little bit out of it. And then Indiana
throws that zone again. That's a really tough place to win.
Credit to Indiana, But I think that one was also
a little bit of a strained circumstances, so you kind
of look at who they're playing, and I think I
think that helped them get some of these. But secondarily,
(05:01):
and it's another thing that I think people have been
clambering for for forever and that we have also seen
Woodson do the last couple of games of the season,
is they changed the lineup and you know, you can
go down the rabbit hole, the whole too big versus
one big thing, And I think that's been well chronicled,
and clearly you get at some more shooting, some more
(05:21):
spacing on the floor when you have that, as you know,
some some things that I think just work better in
today's game. But honestly, I almost even more than that,
I think having Anthony leol on the floor for long
stretches and for starting and has been beneficial because Indiana's
(05:43):
decision making and then it's defense is just better with
him on the floor and all of those things. You know,
we think back early in the season where all those
like offensive rebounds Indiana was giving up, and what were
they doing on defense, and where was the effort, where
was the hustle why weren't they playing at a level
that every other team they were playing earlier in the
season was playing at. I think, you know, it's maybe
(06:07):
too simplistic. You know, maybe he's he's kind of rubbed
off on the other guys. But every single game, there
are little things that he's doing to keep possessions alive,
to get a file drawn on them, on them, just
to make to you know, uh, direct traffic on both
sides of the ball. And I think having that in
the lineup as opposed to you know, earlier in the
(06:29):
season we saw you know, Canon Carlisle start for many games.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
You know, he was one of the big transfer.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Names that came in, and clearly, like offensively, he has
not He did not really perform up to a standard.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
This year at all.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
And you know, you could say that he's decent on defense,
but I think what lel is doing is head and
shoulders above that. And frankly, I'm not sure they need
five scorers on the floor. I think it's it's proven
out that to win these games. You know, he obviously
isn't as much of an offensive player, isn't really looked
for a shot. But I think all those other things
(07:05):
that he's bringing and having a smaller lineup out there
with more shooters has really been the difference. And the
million dollar question is where why didn't they go to
this earlier?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Right?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
But as we've seen with Woodson, he'll ride something that
seems unwise to do for longer than is necessary, and
it's ultimately why he won't be on the sidelines next year.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So you mentioned just why didn't he go to this sooner?
Do you think there's an nil component to how the
teams are managed? I'm not taking to the Indiana situation specifically,
but when you put this amount of resources into a team,
obviously when you start the season, if Woodson would have started,
Anthony Leal that first exhibition game at Tennessee and Kanan
(07:57):
Carlisle would have been playing five or seven minutes, would
have been scratching their heads and saying like, what's going
on here? But to your point, it is a little
head scratching to see how any of us played recently,
kind of with the lineup that they're going with and
how long they kind of rode the Carlisle and even
(08:18):
Rice to some extent his inconsistent play. He's now coming
off the bench and He's had moments here late in
the season that Perdue game, he was really good defensively.
He's had some other games where he's really made his mark,
But right now, I don't think i'd put him in
the top five in terms of how this team's playing
(08:39):
like their best five on the floor. I'm not sure
he's a part of it. So I mean, maybe just
kind of peeling back that that point you made a
little bit more. I mean, how much of it do
you think? It was just the expectations of what maybe
some of these guys were gonna bring to the court
and Woodson maybe trying to cater to that, and now
(08:59):
it kind of you know, the best example now is
I'm sure bryceon Tucker got a pretty nice nil package
to come to Indiana, and he's not even taking off
his warm up pants anymore. He's completely benched, not even
in the conversation for minutes. So it seems to me
like Woodson is coaching like there's no tomorrow because for him,
(09:20):
there really isn't it tomorrow, And he's not worried about
if bryceon Tucker is upset about it, as Minister Cannon
colic because he's not going to be the coach next year.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
He doesn't really have to worry about that.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Well, you know, that's another thing I felt that mentioned
in my opening comments there. I think another actually a
huge factor I think in this end of the season
surge here is also that Trey Galloway is playing, is
starting and really running the show over Miles Rice. And
I think that happened. You know, we saw that down
(09:51):
the stretch last season. You know, Zavvi Johnson was heard
in and out of the lineup, but at a certain
point you could just see that in terms of of
running off ball screens and reading a defense and knowing
where to put the ball. I mean, I know Galway
whatever is not perfect with it, but he's certainly the
best Indiana has And I think yeah with Rice, to me,
(10:13):
he's not in you know, just just taking in this
year only into consideration. I mean, he just hasn't really
shown an ability to be able to run an offense
like Galloway consistently. I think he doesn't see the floor
as well, he doesn't make decisions like Galloway, and he's
(10:34):
certainly his speed can be helpful to score. You know,
he's been decent from the three point line every here,
and there. But ultimately, yeah, I think and especially some
of his stuff in the late game. You know, you
think back to what happened to him in the corner
against Maryland. I even think against Oregon, you know, he
(10:55):
made a couple questionable decisions when the ball was in
his hand the last in the last of that game.
So there's that. I want to stress that. I think
Gallaway these last couple of games has been really good
and has been a big catalyst as well in terms
of the nil stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Well, it's also what what is the goal here? Is
the goal to win?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
You know?
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Is I think early on in the season, especially what
Woodson said before the season started, you know, he had
a comment about I really learned last year guard play.
Right guard play is essential. We need better to guard play.
And they went out and they you know, did they
identify guys that were going to play within a system
(11:38):
that they're like, this guy has this skill set and
this guy's this still set and this is exactly what
we're missing and we're gonna make it work with the
rest of the guys we have on the roster or
did they look you know, and again, I know it's
not just simplistic obviously, and I know these you know,
behind the scenes, you know other assistants that people are
working hard to bring players in. But when you look
at like the lists, it's like, okay, Miles Rice is
(11:58):
a high up there point guard in Carlisle is like
as a I don't know with scoring guard that's up
high on these lists. We were bollow he's the number
one big man. He's he's the number one, okay, And
to me it was like an acquisition of rank talent
when you look back and I think to your point,
(12:20):
you're right, of course, Miles Rice and Carlisle are going
to be starting in that Tennessee exhibition.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
They're going to be starting.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I mean, I don't think there was an and really
with Rice or excuse me, with renew and Ballow you
kind of say the same thing, like it makes sense
in terms of like let's pick out what in a
sort of ranked chart here the talent is, and let's
get all these guys on the floor. And ultimately it
didn't fit.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Well.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
We know that because of the kind of the two
big situation. Rice didn't really have moved to room to operate.
And I think, yes, you're right, as the season kind
of went along with quote unquote nothing to lose here.
There's kind of been a loosening of that, and the
players that are putting in the end in the best
position to win and the best lineups are now winning
(13:08):
out over what was acquired to raise the ceiling of
this team. And yet I don't know if it's so much. Well,
these guys got a good nil doo, therefore that's why
they got the minutes and they were playing more. I mean,
I think maybe there's some of that, But ultimately, Miles
Rice was supposed to be the upgrade over Galloway. Right,
(13:30):
Galloway is mister I'm you know, everyone's like, oh, he's
miscast in this role. Well, ultimately, with the amount of
assist he's racked up in the last two years. I
know he's got this extra fifty year, but you know
he's high up on all time assists for Indiana, Like
I don't know, you know, so you could say he's miscast,
but I can also say at times he's he's pretty
dang good in this role, especially of late.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
So so yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
It's it's interesting, it's the it's really the ultimate question
of the portal. And I think this year Indiana went
out and tried to assemble a team based off of
portal rankings, and ultimately, as we sit here in March,
the reason they may actually ultimately squeak into the tournament
(14:15):
isn't really based off that initial lineup that it was
more portal heavily for the starting lineup.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, I mean really, when you look at the portal
guys that they got, the actual best fit on this
team is Louke Goody because he brings what they needed,
which was three point shooting ability. He's experienced, he doesn't
make a ton of mistakes on the court, and he's
won in the Big Ten and at a high level.
(14:41):
He just went to an elitiate last season, and in
many ways him coming into the lineup and playing more
minutes over this last month two months, we look back
at that game that they I mean, you look at
some of the wins that is, if Indiana makes the tournament,
you're gonna look at wins that were narrow wins that
kind of got them over the hump. Not to borrow
(15:01):
a phrase from Mike Woodson here, but that Ohio State
game on the road that was Luke Goodie's best game
in an IU uniform. That was kind of around the
time where he started to play more extended minutes and
it kind of coincided with Malik renew Indriana Renew missed
that game in Ohio State, but I believe that was
Goodie's best game really from an offensive standpoint, and I
(15:22):
uniform had twenty three points. You know, it's just kind
of ironic to me that, you know, of the I
guess the heralded Portal recruits Miles Rice Canon, Carlisle, Umarbollo,
Luke Goody, Goodie was probably looked at as maybe the
fourth most important acquisition of that group. And to me,
(15:42):
he's been as important, I mean, maybe not in terms
of statistics as m Barbollo, but in terms of fit
in what he brings to this team as anyone.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
No, I think that's another good point. And you know,
he clearly has been getting more minutes and more run
here down the stretch. And you know, as especially in
a year I don't have the Big Ten specific numbers
in front of me, but you start to look at
in the end as three point shooting, and you know
Mbaco has really struggled in Big Ten play and for
the season, you know, he's shooting thirty two percent. Uh
(16:13):
you know, Miles Rice is shooting thirty three percent. Galloway
is at thirty two point seven percent. So those guys
and they have a fair number of times, and Meanbaco's
taking one hundred and forty for the year, Rice has
taken eighty one and Galile it's taken one oh seven.
And for you know, I would not have bet that
Galloway was going to be a higher percentage three point
shooter than Inbacco this year. So I think that's even
(16:33):
put more onus on Goodie, who's shooting over forty to
forty point three percent on the year on the most
attempts on the team one hundred and fifty four. And
I know in Big ten play he's up. He was
at one point recently it was up over forty five percent,
you know, kind of almost pushing the thing near fifty
percent on threes. So beyond some of the you know,
(16:54):
uh fit that he brings in terms of just what
he's doing, I think on both sides of the and
really being the team's leader in a lot of ways,
I think he vocally is a leader which has been
which has been big. If he hasn't been hitting threes.
I mean it would really be a pretty rough from
behind the three point line this season for Indiana. So uh,
(17:15):
he's really kind of saved them there and and hit
some big shots, and they've certainly I think really his
volume two has been pretty decent. I think in in
previous years under Woodson, you know, I think about uh, jeez,
Miller cop right and Woodson statement, I'm kind of here
to get Miller cop you know shots. I actually think, uh,
(17:38):
you know, he is listed as a limited role on
Ken Palm right, he's you know, uh twelve to sixteen
percent usage trade. But when you think about like in transition,
I think they're really looking for him on those kind
of dumpbacks and and he is. To me, he doesn't
seem like, uh this the seventh option, that that he
(17:59):
is getting involved a little bit more. And you know,
there's been games he scored, you know, a pretty high
amount of points. I think he's broken twenty a couple
of times. So he's certainly getting involved in a lot
of ways. And you're right, has been more of a
glue and a leader guy, which has and been super
important more so than some of the other maybe splashier
(18:20):
names or high rated guys that came in.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, we're also seeing still a little bit of Renew
and Ballow on the court together, but not as much.
How big do you think that's been just in terms
of staggering those minutes and in a lot of a
lot of ways Woodson has kind of ridden It's kind
of say written the hot hand of a big guy
because they're not, you know, shooters. But in terms of
(18:43):
just the guy who's playing better in that particular night,
you see him kind of going to Renew or Ballow
in that way. I mean, we saw in the Washington
game it was Renew playing a ton of minutes off
the bench, and he had that matchup where he was
able to sploit Washington a little bit going to the
basket both ways.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And Ballow.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
There's been there's been games where Ballows maybe close games
on the court as well. Maybe maybe not as much
as Renew based on just the free throw shooting, but
it does seem like while there's still moments that are
head scratching where he kind of tries to force the
two bigs out there, it has been a little bit
more you know, a platoon system with Renew and Ballow,
(19:28):
and to me, that's that's been a pretty big adjustment
as well that maybe would have been unthinkable earlier in
the season.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple of things
with that.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Certainly, I think Renew well, I guess the first thing
I'd say is it doesn't really seem like either of
them are like suffering a ton like numbers wise from it,
if that makes sense the way that the way they're
saying that they're not. And I think a couple of
things with the one is when you think about Renew,
(20:03):
he is the type of offensive player that can just
get hot and you can feed him a couple of
times in a row, and all of a sudden, he's
got ten points in like three minutes, and he's you know,
he's scored a couple of buckets in a row. Off
get kind of right low block, so he can kind
of come in off the bench and almost be sort
of that microwave player if the matchup is there for him,
and without needing to move Ballow around, He's at least
(20:26):
got some more room to operate, and you know, he's
been okay. I think Ballow has been better, although I
think teams have been more Keyton on doubling Ballow for
him to you know, be the one kicking out, I
think he's kind of kicking out more. He's done a
better job of being an assistsman that than Renew. And
then for Ballow, I think he's you know, he's not
(20:48):
really a back to he's kind of a back to
the basket player. But really he's been better in those
high low kind of over the top or in transition,
getting him the ball ahead of the defense. And he's
better on the move.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I mean, Renew is not really a.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Guy catching lobs and dunking, but Renews really good on that.
And so I think games that Indiana feels like they
can exploit some pick and roll defense or some ball
screen defense, he makes sense in those opportunities, and it
kind of gives him, you know, two different looks from
their big guys. I think Renew and and Galway kind
of playing a two man game and getting bollow some
(21:23):
some looks otherwise, and then Renew you can just feed him.
So that's been kind of, uh a balance of what
they what they do and what they bring to the
table that I think when they've been in individually, you
can just you can play to that stuff. A little
bit better because there's better spacing in both regards. So yeah,
it's been interesting, you know, and renew I think also
(21:48):
playing less minutes it I think it helps him Santa
foul trouble, which we know has been a big issue
for him. He can kind of come in and just
be really kind of laser focused on doing the things
that he needs to do in smaller minute where if
his minutes are ballooned up a little bit more, maybe
he can get into those has more time to get
in some of those bad habits and things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So coming up Indiana on Thursday, they're going to play
in the Big Ten tournament against Oregon. Obviously, it's a
matchup that's fresh in everybody's minds because Indiana just went
out to Eugene, what less than a week ago, played
Oregon a really tough game in many ways. I don't
want to say they outplayed him, but until the last
what minute and a half they were right in that game.
(22:29):
Oregon made some free throws down the stretch was able
to close out the win. This matchup, the circumstances are
much different. Oregon has to come to Indianapolis play at
noon on Thursday, which will be a nine am tip
for them in terms of their local timeout in Oregon.
It's a matchup that you know, I read a lot
(22:50):
kind of after the the UH, I don't want to
say read a lot. I got the sense that a
lot of people feel like Indiana's in the tournament after
beating Ohio State. But you'll look at some of these projections.
You see some places have them as a ten seed,
which is not even in Dayton. You see some places
have them as still in Dayton, and then you wonder
if they lose to Oregon, are they potentially out? How
(23:14):
do you think Indiana matches up with Oregon coming up
on Thursday?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It seemed like a game where when.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
You watched it, Oregon just seemed faster and more athletic
almost at every position.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But Indiana was right there, and they.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Know, who knows, if that Jackson chel said shot doesn't
go in the game, maybe turns out completely different.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Indiana was right there. Seems like it's a pretty good
opportunity for.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Indiana to get a win, to maybe go ahead and
solidify their position in the tournament. They should have a
pro IU crowd. I can't imagine there's gonna be a
ton of Oregon Duck fans traveling in from Eugene to
Indianapolis for a Thursday afternoon tip in the Big Ten tournament.
So it kind of feels like the alternative was Indiana Illinois,
and we kind of saw how that played out. Bloomington
(24:00):
not a great match up for Indiana. It feels like
of the two potential matchups for Indiana, this is the
better one and the one that could maybe have a
chance to win.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah, So I definitely agree with what you said earlier
on there. I think Oregon to me, when I think
about all the teams in the Big Ten Indiana played
this year, I'm struggling to come up with a team that,
you know. They to me, they had more length and
athleticism than typical Big Ten teams do. And I think
the reason Indiana only scored five points to last whatever
(24:32):
eight minutes plus in that game was because I think
Bamba really got after Galloway, and Galloway has not really
had to had to face a defender like that, and
they got length at multiple positions and that athleticism as
we're talking about here, and I think to that end,
it's not a good matchup for Indiana.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
But I do think there are some of that.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
A they still played them pretty well, but I just
wonder if it kind of comes down another close game,
if Oregon is able to sort of use those advantages
to close it out, especially against an Indiana team that
really hasn't been great, uh at end of at the
end of games. But yes, you're right, I think it's
a really weird time on a Thursday for Oregon to
(25:17):
have to be playing this game. And I do think
Indiana I'll have the crowd in favor, although if you'd
look at you know, the history of the Big Ten
Tournament for Indiana being games in the Middlewest hasn't always
helped out, so uh, not to say that, I think
Illinois would have been some slam dunk for them to win,
But I don't know if it's really that good of
(25:37):
a matchup for Indiana, to be honest, And I do think,
you know, I'm no bracketologists, but sort of looking at everything,
you know, it's weird. I feel like going into and
this is how this stuff can change with other teams winning,
and you know, obviously there's some bid Steelers probably still
to come. But I think before the Oregon and Ohio
State games even felt like there were some like, well,
(25:59):
they don't even have to win both of these, and
they're they could probably still make it right, And now
it sort of feels like they're really on like a
razor thins thin edge.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I think that's a phrase.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
To make it in and I think winning this organ
game could be. It doesn't seem like it's a must win,
but I think if they were to get another Quad
one victory here, it would certainly help, and then they
would have more chances to do that. Obviously, they got
Michigan State next, who again they have beaten, but I'm
not sure, you know, beaten the one seed is something
(26:33):
to expect out of this team, So it's almost like
this next game if they can, if they can win it,
I think it helps solidify them a bit more, to
have the foundation under a tournament bit of be a
little bit more stable for them.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
The last thing I wanted to ask you about was
just either of us were there at the game on Saturday,
but it seemed like just kind of an odd scene
in the post game. I'm not sure how much you
kind of looked at the what they did there wasn't
the traditional senior day speeches, and from all the reporting
and from everything I could gather, they played this video
I thank thank you to Mike Woodson where he said
(27:10):
some words and then he left the court. Wasn't out
there for when the Senior Day stuff transpired. Anthony Lit'll
give some brief comments, but it almost it seemed very
I don't know, orchestrated from the standpoint of to avoid
what kind of what happened last year at Senior Day,
because that's a moment that I think if we had
(27:34):
a conversation about Mike Woodson and his tenure in Indiana
and when kind of things maybe went wrong for him,
I think that's one of the top two or three
moments that people would would point to. And that comment
that the true fans comment at Senior Day last year
that people just still bring up. I mean in the
inside the Hall community, when anyone talks about Mike Woodson,
(27:54):
there's always someone there to respond with a true fan comment.
And if I felt very orchestrated from that standpoint, what just
watching that from afar. You know, we've been doing this
since two thousand and seven. You know, I've been watching
Indiana basketball for much longer than that. Senior Day is
such a big tradition to have guys go out there
(28:16):
and give speeches and to not have it in its
normal form this year just kind of really speaks to
the circumstances I guess around the program and how I
guess odd of an ending it's been really for Mike
Woodson going back to also just his announcement that he
was stepping down, which a lot of people kind of question,
(28:39):
you know, you know, was he told he's not going
to be back, So this is kind of the agreement
they came to it. It's just been an odd way
to end things. And then to have Saturday play out
like it did with but not having a traditional Senior
Day and not actually having the coach out on the
court when these guys are talking, is just it just
kind of maybe confirmed to me that that things really
needed to it to end in Indiana's going to be
(29:03):
better off within forging a new path after this season.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, I just think.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
It's of a piece and that is since words started
breaking that there were conversations being had and that it
looked like Woodson was on the way out, that it's
been handled in an odd way. P It's been a
very pr driven decisions have only been rendered for how
(29:32):
the optics are I think, you know, Woodson has I mean,
there have been little cracks in it, and he has
kind of talked about it a little bit to the media,
but he you know, he never really said anything. He
did not say anything in the statement that came out
on that Friday when it was noted he would not
(29:53):
be back. So to me, I don't know if this
was so much well there, you know, like because of
what he said last year.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
I just think.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
A hot Mike moment with fans, they just you know,
I'm not saying I know where the decision came from,
but I just think it's like an overall like damage control.
Let's just not let anything happen that could happen, And
that's probably why it was done. And I understand why
that upsets, you know, some fans and because it is
such a tradition, But to me, it is just part
(30:26):
of the oddness of the end of the Woodson era
here where you know, he was whatever it looks, you know,
for the best everyone can tell. Obviously he was sort
of forced out, but then you know, on the CBS
broadcast when he is interviewed on the court he's like.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Well, maybe maybe I shouldn't be leaving her so earlier,
maybe we shouldn't be retired now. It's like wait what?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
And I then like at other times, you know, the
color guy in the Washington game clear like you know,
and for everything that I've heard through the years, esp.
You know, when those broadcasters go to talk to the coaches,
the coaches are pretty loose and we'll say a lot
of stuff right that maybe wouldn't be on the they
wouldn't stay in the broadcast. And the way that guy
(31:11):
was talking, you could tell that, like Woodson was basically
complaining to him.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
About having to leave and move on.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
And so you're like, yeah, so there's kind of been
those weird mixed signals with it all, and the truth
of the matter is sort of buried under some some oddness,
and really I think yes, on a senior day it
sort of looks almost the weirdest because of how they
want to how they went about it and just having
(31:40):
video for everything, and I you know, Leel.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Did to speak a little bit obviously, so so yeah,
it was weird.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
But it's been a weird couple of weeks, and you know,
we'll see really how the how this plays out. You know,
they may they able to squeak into the tournament, maybe
win a game. You know, is there ever gonna be
a sort of final Woodson saying this or that about
his tenure. We'll see, But I tend to think it's
(32:05):
just there's not gonna ever be sort of this final
press conference or whatever. I just think the season's gonna
end and that's gonna be it. And whether he does
anything with some national media member, which I know some
people have sort of speculated that he might, there might
be some piece written about him that's sympathetic in that manner,
if that's how he goes about it or whatever happens.
(32:27):
But I don't think there's ever gonna be like a
real conversation happening about the reality of this situation. But
I also think that they hire a new coach, a
another season happens, and you know, time just kind of
marches on and the program moves forward.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So yeah, I mean, I guess I guess my point
was more just kind of the unfortunate way that it's ended.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Like you, I think it would have been.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Nice for Mike Woodson to just be able to talk
about that and like give his thanks to the fans
and be able to you know whatever, say say what
do you wants to say. I mean, obviously I'm not
advocating for having a moment again like last year, but
even kind of throw in some of the other stuff
that's gone on in terms of like the radio shows
and like talking to fish posts, it's just kind of
unfortunate that it's like gotten to this point, right. So,
(33:16):
And I know there's no easy way for a program
to separate from a legend like Mike Woodson in terms
of his tenure at IU as a basketball player.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
But I think just it's just hard.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
To see maybe the way the way that it's ended
for some fans, And I think there's a frustration from
some people. There's there's a lot of people who loved
Mike Woodson as an IU basketball player, they didn't love
him necessarily as a coach for like what has happened
maybe in some of these seasons. But it's just unfortunate
that it couldn't have been maybe a little bit cleaner.
But there's no way, there's no way to there's no
(33:50):
way to make it I guess easy in a.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Situation, yes, And I mean, you know that's the inherent
risk and hiring a legend is if it doesn't work out,
you're you're in a tough situation, and that's what Indiana
is currently living through. But now there was it does
sound like when he I don't know if it was
when his video thing was going, but.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yeah, he was on the court and he did get.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
A nice ovation from everybody from what was what was
reported from people there. So I know that there could
be more, and you know, he could have you know,
spoken directly, but I do think.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
That is something at least.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
I mean, I know it's not everything and it's not
how it usually goes, but it does seem like there
was at least some some warmness given towards him from
the fans at the end, and you know, just kind
of based on how everything was, maybe this was just
as good as it was going to get in terms
of that for any sort of a last game reconciliation,
(34:43):
so to speak, for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
And so yeah, well, we'll obviously have the rest of
the season covered for you on Inside the Hall and
podcast on the Break. A lot of hopefully a lot
of basketball here still to be played in Indiana. As
I mentioned, they've got Oregon coming up this week. Who knows,
making NCAA tournament appearance three tournaments in four years would
be a nice accomplishment for Mike Woodson kind of based
(35:07):
on what he inherited, and you know, I think he's
least leaving the program in a better position than where
he founded, and I think that's kind of a good
way to go out for any coach. Ryan, thanks as
always for taking the time to join us here on
Podcast on the Brink. Always good to talk to you.
For those listening to the show still at this point
here late in the episode, if you enjoy the show,
(35:28):
please leave us a rating and review over on Apple podcast,
leave us a five star rating over on Spotify. Noticed
several of you have done that here in the past
couple weeks. Really appreciate that, and we'll be back soon,
maybe next week with an NCAA tournament game preview on
Podcast
Speaker 4 (35:43):
On the Brink.
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcast on the Brink.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It's Monday, March tenth.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm going to be.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Joined this week on Podcast on the Brink by Ryan
Caraza of Inside the Hall, author of The Minute After
and Film Session, and one of the co founders of
Inside the Hall alongside me. But before we get to
Ryan on this week's episode of Podcasts on the Brink,
wanted to take a moment remind you that Podcast on
(00:43):
the Brink brought to you by our friends at Visit Bloomington.
Visit Bloomington is a proud partner of Podcast on the
Brink in Indiana University Athletics. If you're ready to take
your Who's Your Basketball fandom to the next level, then
playing your trip to Bloomington, Indiana from iconic eats like
Nick's English Hut to explain the scenic trails of Griffy Lake,
Bloomington is your getaway to all things Who's Your and beyond.
(01:06):
Order your free visitor guide and begin planning your adventure
at visit Bloomington dot com. Although the basketball season Bloomington
is over, still a lot of good things going on
in Bloomington these days. The weather is changing great time
to be on campus, check things out, and Indiana baseball
team gonna have a plenty of home games coming up,
(01:26):
so make your way to Bloomington and check things out
the spring. Ryan, welcome back to podcast on the Brink.
It's been a while. The regular season is over. I
think probably a month ago we were maybe all hoping
it would be over sooner rather than later when Indiana
had that five game losing streak. But things have changed now.
Five wins for Indiana in their last seven games. The
(01:48):
vibe around this team, the vibe around this program much different,
and what in your mind, First of all, welcome back
to the show. It's been it's been a while, But
what in your mind is maybe contributed to this late
season turnaround that we've seen from from Indiana basketball. I
think if we were talking a month ago, we would
have all thought this was not gonna happen. It was
(02:09):
going to be a you know, kind of a depressing
into the Indiana basketball season. But as as you know,
the tide has turned here and things are feeling much
better here. As the season regular season concludes, we head
into postseason play.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Well, as usual, you know, the sky can be falling
for a segment of the season and then if some
wins come, then you know, the vibes, as you said,
are different. I think, you know, this has been typical
of Mike Woodson's teams where you know, even going back
(02:47):
to the only year they really were comfortably in the
tournament his second season, there was a January swoon there.
You know, Penn State really beat him up. They lost
a couple of games in a row, and then they
were able to you know, turn around at the end
of the season or you know, kind of turn around
from January there. And and you know, this I think
was a confluence of a couple of things. Not to
(03:07):
just credit this, but you look at some of the wins, right,
I mean, you know, Penn State and Washington are not
entrance into the Big Ten Tournament later this week to
the poor teams in the conference. Two of those wins
the Ohio State. You look at that team pretty equal
to Indiana, right, and you know that they certainly had
to kind of turn up things up at the end
(03:29):
of the game to try to get that victory. And
you know, credit to them. I think it was a good, good,
goodsy win over the weekend.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Purdue.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Woodson has always gotten his teams up for Purdue for
the most part, I think, you know, not to say
that that wasn't a good win, because it definitely was.
But you look at how Purdue's end of their season
in the Big Ten Conference. You know, they had seven losses.
You know, they're thirteen and seven. I think they ended
up six in conference, so they certainly weren't as good
(03:57):
in conference play as they have been recent years with
with Zach Edy. The Michigan State win was also you know,
I feel like I'm poking holes on all this year,
but that that was a really strange game. I think
Michigan State ended up fourteen and one this year at home,
lone loss coming to Indiana, and that was when tom
(04:21):
Izzo was about to break Bob Knight's all time record
for wins in the in the Big Ten. And you know,
Indiana played zone for much of that game, which they
did for a little bit in that during that time
of the season, something they really have completely abandoned.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Again.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I just think Michigan State mentally and kind of emotionally
was a little bit out of it. And then Indiana
throws that zone again. That's a really tough place to win.
Credit to Indiana, But I think that one was also
a little bit of a strained circumstances, so you kind
of look at who they're playing, and I think I
think that helped them get some of these. But secondarily,
(05:01):
and it's another thing that I think people have been
clambering for for forever and that we have also seen
Woodson do the last couple of games of the season,
is they changed the lineup and you know, you can
go down the rabbit hole, the whole too big versus
one big thing, And I think that's been well chronicled,
and clearly you get at some more shooting, some more
(05:21):
spacing on the floor when you have that, as you know,
some some things that I think just work better in
today's game. But honestly, I almost even more than that,
I think having Anthony leol on the floor for long
stretches and for starting and has been beneficial because Indiana's
(05:43):
decision making and then it's defense is just better with
him on the floor and all of those things. You know,
we think back early in the season where all those
like offensive rebounds Indiana was giving up, and what were
they doing on defense, and where was the effort, where
was the hustle why weren't they playing at a level
that every other team they were playing earlier in the
season was playing at. I think, you know, it's maybe
(06:07):
too simplistic. You know, maybe he's he's kind of rubbed
off on the other guys. But every single game, there
are little things that he's doing to keep possessions alive,
to get a file drawn on them, on them, just
to make to you know, uh, direct traffic on both
sides of the ball. And I think having that in
the lineup as opposed to you know, earlier in the
(06:29):
season we saw you know, Canon Carlisle start for many games.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
You know, he was one of the big transfer.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Names that came in, and clearly, like offensively, he has
not He did not really perform up to a standard.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
This year at all.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
And you know, you could say that he's decent on defense,
but I think what lel is doing is head and
shoulders above that. And frankly, I'm not sure they need
five scorers on the floor. I think it's it's proven
out that to win these games. You know, he obviously
isn't as much of an offensive player, isn't really looked
for a shot. But I think all those other things
(07:05):
that he's bringing and having a smaller lineup out there
with more shooters has really been the difference. And the
million dollar question is where why didn't they go to
this earlier?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Right?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
But as we've seen with Woodson, he'll ride something that
seems unwise to do for longer than is necessary, and
it's ultimately why he won't be on the sidelines next year.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So you mentioned just why didn't he go to this sooner?
Do you think there's an nil component to how the
teams are managed? I'm not taking to the Indiana situation specifically,
but when you put this amount of resources into a team,
obviously when you start the season, if Woodson would have started,
Anthony Leal that first exhibition game at Tennessee and Kanan
(07:57):
Carlisle would have been playing five or seven minutes, would
have been scratching their heads and saying like, what's going
on here? But to your point, it is a little
head scratching to see how any of us played recently,
kind of with the lineup that they're going with and
how long they kind of rode the Carlisle and even
(08:18):
Rice to some extent his inconsistent play. He's now coming
off the bench and He's had moments here late in
the season that Perdue game, he was really good defensively.
He's had some other games where he's really made his mark,
But right now, I don't think i'd put him in
the top five in terms of how this team's playing
(08:39):
like their best five on the floor. I'm not sure
he's a part of it. So I mean, maybe just
kind of peeling back that that point you made a
little bit more. I mean, how much of it do
you think? It was just the expectations of what maybe
some of these guys were gonna bring to the court
and Woodson maybe trying to cater to that, and now
(08:59):
it kind of you know, the best example now is
I'm sure bryceon Tucker got a pretty nice nil package
to come to Indiana, and he's not even taking off
his warm up pants anymore. He's completely benched, not even
in the conversation for minutes. So it seems to me
like Woodson is coaching like there's no tomorrow because for him,
(09:20):
there really isn't it tomorrow, And he's not worried about
if bryceon Tucker is upset about it, as Minister Cannon
colic because he's not going to be the coach next year.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
He doesn't really have to worry about that.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Well, you know, that's another thing I felt that mentioned
in my opening comments there. I think another actually a
huge factor I think in this end of the season
surge here is also that Trey Galloway is playing, is
starting and really running the show over Miles Rice. And
I think that happened. You know, we saw that down
(09:51):
the stretch last season. You know, Zavvi Johnson was heard
in and out of the lineup, but at a certain
point you could just see that in terms of of
running off ball screens and reading a defense and knowing
where to put the ball. I mean, I know Galway
whatever is not perfect with it, but he's certainly the
best Indiana has And I think yeah with Rice, to me,
(10:13):
he's not in you know, just just taking in this
year only into consideration. I mean, he just hasn't really
shown an ability to be able to run an offense
like Galloway consistently. I think he doesn't see the floor
as well, he doesn't make decisions like Galloway, and he's
(10:34):
certainly his speed can be helpful to score. You know,
he's been decent from the three point line every here,
and there. But ultimately, yeah, I think and especially some
of his stuff in the late game. You know, you
think back to what happened to him in the corner
against Maryland. I even think against Oregon, you know, he
(10:55):
made a couple questionable decisions when the ball was in
his hand the last in the last of that game.
So there's that. I want to stress that. I think
Gallaway these last couple of games has been really good
and has been a big catalyst as well in terms
of the nil stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Well, it's also what what is the goal here? Is
the goal to win?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
You know?
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Is I think early on in the season, especially what
Woodson said before the season started, you know, he had
a comment about I really learned last year guard play.
Right guard play is essential. We need better to guard play.
And they went out and they you know, did they
identify guys that were going to play within a system
(11:38):
that they're like, this guy has this skill set and
this guy's this still set and this is exactly what
we're missing and we're gonna make it work with the
rest of the guys we have on the roster or
did they look you know, and again, I know it's
not just simplistic obviously, and I know these you know,
behind the scenes, you know other assistants that people are
working hard to bring players in. But when you look
at like the lists, it's like, okay, Miles Rice is
(11:58):
a high up there point guard in Carlisle is like
as a I don't know with scoring guard that's up
high on these lists. We were bollow he's the number
one big man. He's he's the number one, okay, And
to me it was like an acquisition of rank talent
when you look back and I think to your point,
(12:20):
you're right, of course, Miles Rice and Carlisle are going
to be starting in that Tennessee exhibition.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
They're going to be starting.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
I mean, I don't think there was an and really
with Rice or excuse me, with renew and Ballow you
kind of say the same thing, like it makes sense
in terms of like let's pick out what in a
sort of ranked chart here the talent is, and let's
get all these guys on the floor. And ultimately it
didn't fit.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Well.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
We know that because of the kind of the two
big situation. Rice didn't really have moved to room to operate.
And I think, yes, you're right, as the season kind
of went along with quote unquote nothing to lose here.
There's kind of been a loosening of that, and the
players that are putting in the end in the best
position to win and the best lineups are now winning
(13:08):
out over what was acquired to raise the ceiling of
this team. And yet I don't know if it's so much. Well,
these guys got a good nil doo, therefore that's why
they got the minutes and they were playing more. I mean,
I think maybe there's some of that, But ultimately, Miles
Rice was supposed to be the upgrade over Galloway. Right,
(13:30):
Galloway is mister I'm you know, everyone's like, oh, he's
miscast in this role. Well, ultimately, with the amount of
assist he's racked up in the last two years. I
know he's got this extra fifty year, but you know
he's high up on all time assists for Indiana, Like
I don't know, you know, so you could say he's miscast,
but I can also say at times he's he's pretty
dang good in this role, especially of late.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
So so yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
It's it's interesting, it's the it's really the ultimate question
of the portal. And I think this year Indiana went
out and tried to assemble a team based off of
portal rankings, and ultimately, as we sit here in March,
the reason they may actually ultimately squeak into the tournament
(14:15):
isn't really based off that initial lineup that it was
more portal heavily for the starting lineup.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, I mean really, when you look at the portal
guys that they got, the actual best fit on this
team is Louke Goody because he brings what they needed,
which was three point shooting ability. He's experienced, he doesn't
make a ton of mistakes on the court, and he's
won in the Big Ten and at a high level.
(14:41):
He just went to an elitiate last season, and in
many ways him coming into the lineup and playing more
minutes over this last month two months, we look back
at that game that they I mean, you look at
some of the wins that is, if Indiana makes the tournament,
you're gonna look at wins that were narrow wins that
kind of got them over the hump. Not to borrow
(15:01):
a phrase from Mike Woodson here, but that Ohio State
game on the road that was Luke Goodie's best game
in an IU uniform. That was kind of around the
time where he started to play more extended minutes and
it kind of coincided with Malik renew Indriana Renew missed
that game in Ohio State, but I believe that was
Goodie's best game really from an offensive standpoint, and I
(15:22):
uniform had twenty three points. You know, it's just kind
of ironic to me that, you know, of the I
guess the heralded Portal recruits Miles Rice Canon, Carlisle, Umarbollo,
Luke Goody, Goodie was probably looked at as maybe the
fourth most important acquisition of that group. And to me,
(15:42):
he's been as important, I mean, maybe not in terms
of statistics as m Barbollo, but in terms of fit
in what he brings to this team as anyone.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
No, I think that's another good point. And you know,
he clearly has been getting more minutes and more run
here down the stretch. And you know, as especially in
a year I don't have the Big Ten specific numbers
in front of me, but you start to look at
in the end as three point shooting, and you know
Mbaco has really struggled in Big Ten play and for
the season, you know, he's shooting thirty two percent. Uh
(16:13):
you know, Miles Rice is shooting thirty three percent. Galloway
is at thirty two point seven percent. So those guys
and they have a fair number of times, and Meanbaco's
taking one hundred and forty for the year, Rice has
taken eighty one and Galile it's taken one oh seven.
And for you know, I would not have bet that
Galloway was going to be a higher percentage three point
shooter than Inbacco this year. So I think that's even
(16:33):
put more onus on Goodie, who's shooting over forty to
forty point three percent on the year on the most
attempts on the team one hundred and fifty four. And
I know in Big ten play he's up. He was
at one point recently it was up over forty five percent,
you know, kind of almost pushing the thing near fifty
percent on threes. So beyond some of the you know,
(16:54):
uh fit that he brings in terms of just what
he's doing, I think on both sides of the and
really being the team's leader in a lot of ways,
I think he vocally is a leader which has been
which has been big. If he hasn't been hitting threes.
I mean it would really be a pretty rough from
behind the three point line this season for Indiana. So uh,
(17:15):
he's really kind of saved them there and and hit
some big shots, and they've certainly I think really his
volume two has been pretty decent. I think in in
previous years under Woodson, you know, I think about uh, jeez,
Miller cop right and Woodson statement, I'm kind of here
to get Miller cop you know shots. I actually think, uh,
(17:38):
you know, he is listed as a limited role on
Ken Palm right, he's you know, uh twelve to sixteen
percent usage trade. But when you think about like in transition,
I think they're really looking for him on those kind
of dumpbacks and and he is. To me, he doesn't
seem like, uh this the seventh option, that that he
(17:59):
is getting involved a little bit more. And you know,
there's been games he scored, you know, a pretty high
amount of points. I think he's broken twenty a couple
of times. So he's certainly getting involved in a lot
of ways. And you're right, has been more of a
glue and a leader guy, which has and been super
important more so than some of the other maybe splashier
(18:20):
names or high rated guys that came in.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, we're also seeing still a little bit of Renew
and Ballow on the court together, but not as much.
How big do you think that's been just in terms
of staggering those minutes and in a lot of a
lot of ways Woodson has kind of ridden It's kind
of say written the hot hand of a big guy
because they're not, you know, shooters. But in terms of
(18:43):
just the guy who's playing better in that particular night,
you see him kind of going to Renew or Ballow
in that way. I mean, we saw in the Washington
game it was Renew playing a ton of minutes off
the bench, and he had that matchup where he was
able to sploit Washington a little bit going to the
basket both ways.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And Ballow.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
There's been there's been games where Ballows maybe close games
on the court as well. Maybe maybe not as much
as Renew based on just the free throw shooting, but
it does seem like while there's still moments that are
head scratching where he kind of tries to force the
two bigs out there, it has been a little bit
more you know, a platoon system with Renew and Ballow,
(19:28):
and to me, that's that's been a pretty big adjustment
as well that maybe would have been unthinkable earlier in
the season.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple of things
with that.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Certainly, I think Renew well, I guess the first thing
I'd say is it doesn't really seem like either of
them are like suffering a ton like numbers wise from it,
if that makes sense the way that the way they're
saying that they're not. And I think a couple of
things with the one is when you think about Renew,
(20:03):
he is the type of offensive player that can just
get hot and you can feed him a couple of
times in a row, and all of a sudden, he's
got ten points in like three minutes, and he's you know,
he's scored a couple of buckets in a row. Off
get kind of right low block, so he can kind
of come in off the bench and almost be sort
of that microwave player if the matchup is there for him,
and without needing to move Ballow around, He's at least
(20:26):
got some more room to operate, and you know, he's
been okay. I think Ballow has been better, although I
think teams have been more Keyton on doubling Ballow for
him to you know, be the one kicking out, I
think he's kind of kicking out more. He's done a
better job of being an assistsman that than Renew. And
then for Ballow, I think he's you know, he's not
(20:48):
really a back to he's kind of a back to
the basket player. But really he's been better in those
high low kind of over the top or in transition,
getting him the ball ahead of the defense. And he's
better on the move.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I mean, Renew is not really a.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Guy catching lobs and dunking, but Renews really good on that.
And so I think games that Indiana feels like they
can exploit some pick and roll defense or some ball
screen defense, he makes sense in those opportunities, and it
kind of gives him, you know, two different looks from
their big guys. I think Renew and and Galway kind
of playing a two man game and getting bollow some
(21:23):
some looks otherwise, and then Renew you can just feed him.
So that's been kind of, uh a balance of what
they what they do and what they bring to the
table that I think when they've been in individually, you
can just you can play to that stuff. A little
bit better because there's better spacing in both regards. So yeah,
it's been interesting, you know, and renew I think also
(21:48):
playing less minutes it I think it helps him Santa
foul trouble, which we know has been a big issue
for him. He can kind of come in and just
be really kind of laser focused on doing the things
that he needs to do in smaller minute where if
his minutes are ballooned up a little bit more, maybe
he can get into those has more time to get
in some of those bad habits and things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So coming up Indiana on Thursday, they're going to play
in the Big Ten tournament against Oregon. Obviously, it's a
matchup that's fresh in everybody's minds because Indiana just went
out to Eugene, what less than a week ago, played
Oregon a really tough game in many ways. I don't
want to say they outplayed him, but until the last
what minute and a half they were right in that game.
(22:29):
Oregon made some free throws down the stretch was able
to close out the win. This matchup, the circumstances are
much different. Oregon has to come to Indianapolis play at
noon on Thursday, which will be a nine am tip
for them in terms of their local timeout in Oregon.
It's a matchup that you know, I read a lot
(22:50):
kind of after the the UH, I don't want to
say read a lot. I got the sense that a
lot of people feel like Indiana's in the tournament after
beating Ohio State. But you'll look at some of these projections.
You see some places have them as a ten seed,
which is not even in Dayton. You see some places
have them as still in Dayton, and then you wonder
if they lose to Oregon, are they potentially out? How
(23:14):
do you think Indiana matches up with Oregon coming up
on Thursday?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
It seemed like a game where when.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
You watched it, Oregon just seemed faster and more athletic
almost at every position.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But Indiana was right there, and they.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Know, who knows, if that Jackson chel said shot doesn't
go in the game, maybe turns out completely different.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Indiana was right there. Seems like it's a pretty good
opportunity for.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Indiana to get a win, to maybe go ahead and
solidify their position in the tournament. They should have a
pro IU crowd. I can't imagine there's gonna be a
ton of Oregon Duck fans traveling in from Eugene to
Indianapolis for a Thursday afternoon tip in the Big Ten tournament.
So it kind of feels like the alternative was Indiana Illinois,
and we kind of saw how that played out. Bloomington
(24:00):
not a great match up for Indiana. It feels like
of the two potential matchups for Indiana, this is the
better one and the one that could maybe have a
chance to win.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah, So I definitely agree with what you said earlier
on there. I think Oregon to me, when I think
about all the teams in the Big Ten Indiana played
this year, I'm struggling to come up with a team that,
you know. They to me, they had more length and
athleticism than typical Big Ten teams do. And I think
the reason Indiana only scored five points to last whatever
(24:32):
eight minutes plus in that game was because I think
Bamba really got after Galloway, and Galloway has not really
had to had to face a defender like that, and
they got length at multiple positions and that athleticism as
we're talking about here, and I think to that end,
it's not a good matchup for Indiana.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
But I do think there are some of that.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
A they still played them pretty well, but I just
wonder if it kind of comes down another close game,
if Oregon is able to sort of use those advantages
to close it out, especially against an Indiana team that
really hasn't been great, uh at end of at the
end of games. But yes, you're right, I think it's
a really weird time on a Thursday for Oregon to
(25:17):
have to be playing this game. And I do think
Indiana I'll have the crowd in favor, although if you'd
look at you know, the history of the Big Ten
Tournament for Indiana being games in the Middlewest hasn't always
helped out, so uh, not to say that, I think
Illinois would have been some slam dunk for them to win,
But I don't know if it's really that good of
(25:37):
a matchup for Indiana, to be honest, And I do think,
you know, I'm no bracketologists, but sort of looking at everything,
you know, it's weird. I feel like going into and
this is how this stuff can change with other teams winning,
and you know, obviously there's some bid Steelers probably still
to come. But I think before the Oregon and Ohio
State games even felt like there were some like, well,
(25:59):
they don't even have to win both of these, and
they're they could probably still make it right, And now
it sort of feels like they're really on like a
razor thins thin edge.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I think that's a phrase.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
To make it in and I think winning this organ
game could be. It doesn't seem like it's a must win,
but I think if they were to get another Quad
one victory here, it would certainly help, and then they
would have more chances to do that. Obviously, they got
Michigan State next, who again they have beaten, but I'm
not sure, you know, beaten the one seed is something
(26:33):
to expect out of this team, So it's almost like
this next game if they can, if they can win it,
I think it helps solidify them a bit more, to
have the foundation under a tournament bit of be a
little bit more stable for them.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
The last thing I wanted to ask you about was
just either of us were there at the game on Saturday,
but it seemed like just kind of an odd scene
in the post game. I'm not sure how much you
kind of looked at the what they did there wasn't
the traditional senior day speeches, and from all the reporting
and from everything I could gather, they played this video
I thank thank you to Mike Woodson where he said
(27:10):
some words and then he left the court. Wasn't out
there for when the Senior Day stuff transpired. Anthony Lit'll
give some brief comments, but it almost it seemed very
I don't know, orchestrated from the standpoint of to avoid
what kind of what happened last year at Senior Day,
because that's a moment that I think if we had
(27:34):
a conversation about Mike Woodson and his tenure in Indiana
and when kind of things maybe went wrong for him,
I think that's one of the top two or three
moments that people would would point to. And that comment
that the true fans comment at Senior Day last year
that people just still bring up. I mean in the
inside the Hall community, when anyone talks about Mike Woodson,
(27:54):
there's always someone there to respond with a true fan comment.
And if I felt very orchestrated from that standpoint, what just
watching that from afar. You know, we've been doing this
since two thousand and seven. You know, I've been watching
Indiana basketball for much longer than that. Senior Day is
such a big tradition to have guys go out there
(28:16):
and give speeches and to not have it in its
normal form this year just kind of really speaks to
the circumstances I guess around the program and how I
guess odd of an ending it's been really for Mike
Woodson going back to also just his announcement that he
was stepping down, which a lot of people kind of question,
(28:39):
you know, you know, was he told he's not going
to be back, So this is kind of the agreement
they came to it. It's just been an odd way
to end things. And then to have Saturday play out
like it did with but not having a traditional Senior
Day and not actually having the coach out on the
court when these guys are talking, is just it just
kind of maybe confirmed to me that that things really
needed to it to end in Indiana's going to be
(29:03):
better off within forging a new path after this season.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah, I just think.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
It's of a piece and that is since words started
breaking that there were conversations being had and that it
looked like Woodson was on the way out, that it's
been handled in an odd way. P It's been a
very pr driven decisions have only been rendered for how
(29:32):
the optics are I think, you know, Woodson has I mean,
there have been little cracks in it, and he has
kind of talked about it a little bit to the media,
but he you know, he never really said anything. He
did not say anything in the statement that came out
on that Friday when it was noted he would not
(29:53):
be back. So to me, I don't know if this
was so much well there, you know, like because of
what he said last year.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
I just think.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
A hot Mike moment with fans, they just you know,
I'm not saying I know where the decision came from,
but I just think it's like an overall like damage control.
Let's just not let anything happen that could happen, And
that's probably why it was done. And I understand why
that upsets, you know, some fans and because it is
such a tradition, But to me, it is just part
(30:26):
of the oddness of the end of the Woodson era
here where you know, he was whatever it looks, you know,
for the best everyone can tell. Obviously he was sort
of forced out, but then you know, on the CBS
broadcast when he is interviewed on the court he's like.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Well, maybe maybe I shouldn't be leaving her so earlier,
maybe we shouldn't be retired now. It's like wait what?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
And I then like at other times, you know, the
color guy in the Washington game clear like you know,
and for everything that I've heard through the years, esp.
You know, when those broadcasters go to talk to the coaches,
the coaches are pretty loose and we'll say a lot
of stuff right that maybe wouldn't be on the they
wouldn't stay in the broadcast. And the way that guy
(31:11):
was talking, you could tell that, like Woodson was basically
complaining to him.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
About having to leave and move on.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
And so you're like, yeah, so there's kind of been
those weird mixed signals with it all, and the truth
of the matter is sort of buried under some some oddness,
and really I think yes, on a senior day it
sort of looks almost the weirdest because of how they
want to how they went about it and just having
(31:40):
video for everything, and I you know, Leel.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Did to speak a little bit obviously, so so yeah,
it was weird.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
But it's been a weird couple of weeks, and you know,
we'll see really how the how this plays out. You know,
they may they able to squeak into the tournament, maybe
win a game. You know, is there ever gonna be
a sort of final Woodson saying this or that about
his tenure. We'll see, But I tend to think it's
(32:05):
just there's not gonna ever be sort of this final
press conference or whatever. I just think the season's gonna
end and that's gonna be it. And whether he does
anything with some national media member, which I know some
people have sort of speculated that he might, there might
be some piece written about him that's sympathetic in that manner,
if that's how he goes about it or whatever happens.
(32:27):
But I don't think there's ever gonna be like a
real conversation happening about the reality of this situation. But
I also think that they hire a new coach, a
another season happens, and you know, time just kind of
marches on and the program moves forward.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So yeah, I mean, I guess I guess my point
was more just kind of the unfortunate way that it's ended.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Like you, I think it would have been.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Nice for Mike Woodson to just be able to talk
about that and like give his thanks to the fans
and be able to you know whatever, say say what
do you wants to say. I mean, obviously I'm not
advocating for having a moment again like last year, but
even kind of throw in some of the other stuff
that's gone on in terms of like the radio shows
and like talking to fish posts, it's just kind of
unfortunate that it's like gotten to this point, right. So,
(33:16):
And I know there's no easy way for a program
to separate from a legend like Mike Woodson in terms
of his tenure at IU as a basketball player.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
But I think just it's just hard.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
To see maybe the way the way that it's ended
for some fans, And I think there's a frustration from
some people. There's there's a lot of people who loved
Mike Woodson as an IU basketball player, they didn't love
him necessarily as a coach for like what has happened
maybe in some of these seasons. But it's just unfortunate
that it couldn't have been maybe a little bit cleaner.
But there's no way, there's no way to there's no
(33:50):
way to make it I guess easy in a.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Situation, yes, And I mean, you know that's the inherent
risk and hiring a legend is if it doesn't work out,
you're you're in a tough situation, and that's what Indiana
is currently living through. But now there was it does
sound like when he I don't know if it was
when his video thing was going, but.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yeah, he was on the court and he did get.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
A nice ovation from everybody from what was what was
reported from people there. So I know that there could
be more, and you know, he could have you know,
spoken directly, but I do think.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
That is something at least.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
I mean, I know it's not everything and it's not
how it usually goes, but it does seem like there
was at least some some warmness given towards him from
the fans at the end, and you know, just kind
of based on how everything was, maybe this was just
as good as it was going to get in terms
of that for any sort of a last game reconciliation,
(34:43):
so to speak, for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
And so yeah, well, we'll obviously have the rest of
the season covered for you on Inside the Hall and
podcast on the Break. A lot of hopefully a lot
of basketball here still to be played in Indiana. As
I mentioned, they've got Oregon coming up this week. Who knows,
making NCAA tournament appearance three tournaments in four years would
be a nice accomplishment for Mike Woodson kind of based
(35:07):
on what he inherited, and you know, I think he's
least leaving the program in a better position than where
he founded, and I think that's kind of a good
way to go out for any coach. Ryan, thanks as
always for taking the time to join us here on
Podcast on the Brink. Always good to talk to you.
For those listening to the show still at this point
here late in the episode, if you enjoy the show,
(35:28):
please leave us a rating and review over on Apple podcast,
leave us a five star rating over on Spotify. Noticed
several of you have done that here in the past
couple weeks. Really appreciate that, and we'll be back soon,
maybe next week with an NCAA tournament game preview on
Podcast
Speaker 4 (35:43):
On the Brink.
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