May 9, 2025 • 32 mins
On this episode, Alex Bozich is joined by Ryan Phillips of Sports Illustrated and The Assembly Call for a check-in on the IU basketball offseason.
This week's episode of Podcast on the Brink is brought to you by Visit Bloomington: https://www.visitbloomington.com/
Support Inside the Hall and Podcast on the Brink with a donation: https://www.insidethehall.com/recommends/donate-to-inside-the-hall/
Subscribe to Peacock to watch Indiana men’s and women’s basketball: https://www.insidethehall.com/recommends/peacock (affiliate link)
Buy IU basketball tickets at Vivid Seats: https://www.insidethehall.com/recommends/vivid-seats (affiliate link)
This week's episode of Podcast on the Brink is brought to you by Visit Bloomington: https://www.visitbloomington.com/
Support Inside the Hall and Podcast on the Brink with a donation: https://www.insidethehall.com/recommends/donate-to-inside-the-hall/
Subscribe to Peacock to watch Indiana men’s and women’s basketball: https://www.insidethehall.com/recommends/peacock (affiliate link)
Buy IU basketball tickets at Vivid Seats: https://www.insidethehall.com/recommends/vivid-seats (affiliate link)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome back to a new episode of podcast on the Brink.
It's Friday, May night, starting to settle in a little
bit to the IU basketball off season. Still some news
here and there. Had a commitment a couple of weeks
ago from Josh Harris, and some recruiting news this week
in terms of offers, but the roster getting pretty much
(00:39):
set at this point, could be a couple additions still
to come. It's funny I was looking back in the archives.
Today's guest, Ryan Phillips of The Assembly Call and Sports Illustrated,
was on the show exactly. I think it was three
hundred and sixty four days ago to today. So we'll
get to Ryan in just a second. But as always,
(01:00):
this week, this episode of Podcasts in the Brink brought
to you our friends at Visit Bloomington. Just because the
basketball season is over doesn't mean the fun stops. Spring
is the perfect time to explore everything Bloomington has to offer.
Pack the trails at Griffy Lake Nature Preserve and then
refuel with local flavors on tap at Upland Brewing Company.
And don't forget about the many music festivals coming to
Bloomington this spring. Whether you're into outdoor adventures, food, or
(01:23):
just relaxing in a vibrant college town. Visit Bloomington's got
you covered. Start planning your spring getaway now at visit
Bloomington dot com. And I think it's right Now is
the perfect time to visit Bloomington because graduations this weekend,
all the moving trucks are moving out. There's gonna be
plenty of space to move around on Kirkwood and enjoy
all the different things in Bloomington, Ryan, welcome back to
(01:44):
the show. Before we get started, I need your go
to spots in Bloomington.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, I just had a revelation. Every time I come
into town, the first place they go to dinner is
Uptown Cafe. I love going to Upstairs and I like
upland so it's everything with an up in Bloomington apparently
are my go to spots. But yeah, i'd love I
love getting a classic Nicksburger as well. But yeah, I
mean I brought my girlfriend for the first time this
past year in February and we hit everything. Man, there's
(02:15):
so many great spots, and it really is just so
much fun going back and busy in the town. Probably
like to the degree that like I didn't appreciate it
when I lived there as much to now when I
get back, because there's always, you know, that row of
spots I need to hit. So yeah, Uptown is always
my first dinner though. I love that place.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So I mentioned it's been three hundred and sixty four
days since you've been on the show. A lot has happened.
I mean, we have this conversation last year where we
were there was a lot of excitement. I don't say
I say we were excited, but there was a lot
of excitement among the fan base as to what would
had happened in the portal, the roster that they assembled.
We all know how that all played out. I don't
(02:52):
want to rehash it again, but please don't this now
it kind of feels like, I don't want to say,
in the same spot. But there's a lot of optimism
with a new era for IYU basketball, this transfer portal hall.
What have you made of just kind of this whole
transition process since you know it was in March eighteenth,
Derees was hired March nineteenth, he's introduced, and I think
(03:14):
we had a run of twenty seven days in April
with ten commitments, which is crazy to think about. I
was living the other day. Indiana has the most transfer
portal commitments of any Big ten program, somewhat out of necessity.
But there were other programs, yeah, other programs with coaching
changes too, But I'm just curious, like big picture, what
(03:36):
you've made of this period and kind of where Indiana
sits as of today.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well, one thing I've really respected about the staff is
there have not been many leaks, you know. I mean,
there's been kind of like they're optimistic about maybe landing
this guy or something, but there hasn't been a lot
of like this is going to happen and then it happens.
It's kind of with recruiting, with picking up new coaches.
I mean a lot of the assistant coach had coaching
and coaching searches. We're pretty behind the scenes. I mean
(04:02):
there was you know, you get a whisper about a
name or two, but you didn't know who it was
going to be and then it would happen. And so
I respect that that they're really just going about their business.
They're not trying to hype it, you know ahead of time.
And with the recruiting stuff, you look at that roster
and I you know, at night and day. From what
we've seen the last four even the last eight years,
(04:25):
this team's going to move like. This is going to
be a very movement heavy roster. They are not going
to be stationary on the perimeter with one post guy
tossing it in and everybody moving around that. This is
going to be a team that is cycling, that is moving,
that is and it's going to be almost out of
necessity because they don't have that back to the Basket Classic,
back to the basket post presence, and so I think
(04:48):
it's gonna take a little gett used to fri Indiana
fans after the last you know, long stretch of basketball
where we've seen that. But it's certainly a positive change
in my opinion, because that's the cloud thing on offense
is move people, move the ball, and that's how you
have success, and that's exactly what it looks like they're
going to do. And then defensively, you look at some
(05:08):
of these guys and again a lot of them are
transitioning from lower level programs to Power five and there
isn't a lot of Power five experience that is coming
over in the transfer portal. But you look at their pedigrees,
and these guys are a lot of like great on
ball defenders and are you know, put a lot of
pressure on the ball. And again that's a necessity if
(05:29):
you don't have a classic rim protector, you know, a
seven foot or at a back weighting to help you out.
You got to put a lot of ball pressure on
and make people uncomfortable. So I love the way this is.
This has worked, especially for a first year roster. It's
maybe not the ideal roster in year four where you're
trying to make a run for national championship, but for
a first year roster, in establishing your culture and establishing
(05:49):
what you want to do and then seeing how his
teams have played in the past, this fits. And I
think it's going to be a brand of basketball. It's
going to be really fun to watch and hopefully a
successful brand of basketball as well. But I've really liked
how that the staff has gone about this. I feel
like it's very working. It's not flashy. It is we're
gonna get the guys we want to get, put them
(06:11):
in a position, and we're not going to talk about it.
We're just gonna do it. And at the end, once
we have our stuff together. We can talk to me
about it.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
It doesn't feel like there's a lot of hey, look
at us, like look at the things we're doing. It's
more just done, let's move to the next one.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, I mean, from from covering the whole this whole
period in terms of a recruiting perspective, you make a
good point in terms of the lack of information. It's
not that there wasn't knowledge that certain guys were on
campus or visits were going to happen. There was a
(06:46):
there was a there was a pretty strong feeling on
certain guys, but it wasn't coming from the staff like
maybe it was in the past. And that's no knock
on the previous staff or previous staffs. But a lot
of this stuff now is so agent driven with the portal,
I think that's where a lot of it was coming from.
But there was even an instance which kind of I
don't remember this ever happening, you know, Sam, when Sam
(07:08):
Alexis committed from Florida. I don't think anyone knew that
was That was just kind of out of nowhere, been
mentioned of it, mentioned of him, I think by a
couple of people. But it was basically out of nowhere.
I want to go back to something you said just
about kind of these being lower level guys coming up
a level. How much do you think that maybe limits
(07:30):
the ceiling for what Indiana can do in year one?
Or do you think now in this era of player
movement and you know what we saw with some of
the teams in the final four, I mean, Florida obviously
had plenty of guys that moved up from the mid
major level. I don't even maybe some of them were
even lower major. But with this roster, do you think
that puts kind of a cap on what Indiana is
(07:51):
going to be able to accomplish next year? Because you
look at it and you're right, I mean there's I mean,
Tucker Dereeze played what eight games at the high major
level last season? Alexis played at Florida depending on whether
Luke Goodie's back, I mean, he would obviously be a
guy that would have high major experience. Other than that,
it's a bunch of guys who are going to be
(08:12):
I would I would think the coaching staff wants these
guys to come in and play with a tip on
their shoulder and so they belong. But I'm just curious
if you think it maybe limits the ceiling of this
team based on just the talent level.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well more than anything, it just it's hard to project
what they will look like. And I think that you know,
when you have a guy going from you know, a
Power five program to another Power five program, you can
kind of well, while it might be acc to Big ten,
so it's not exactly the same, you can kind of
see what they've done and kind of product. When you're
going from a lower level to higher, you you don't
know what that's going to look like. Like Lamar Wilkers
(08:44):
an amazing three point shooter. Was he facing guys who
was as athletic as he's going to face in the
Big Ten? Probably not, So maybe those percentages drop it.
But the one thing I will say about it, and
why I temper my yeah, it's, you know it limits
the ceiling is that these guys all have a lot
of experience. It's playing college basketball. That's the other thing
they're not taking. You know, well, it's it's not all
(09:05):
a talent projection. It's these guys have produced. And I
mean you've got guys who like Connorway was the Sunbell
Player of the Year. You know, and just because you
haven't heard of him, doesn't it you know, like the
average fan hasn't heard him, doesn't mean he hasn't had
a successful I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
They played Kentucky in the NCAA Tournament last year, So
it's not like he's never been on the court with
those guys and performed right exactly year.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So yeah, no, exactly, And I think that that, you know,
so it's not that these guys haven't had success. And
I think that honestly, in college basketball for me, over
the last few years, if you look at the Final four,
if you look at the Elite eight, it's a lot
of experienced teams, and it's or at least teams that
have leaders that are very experienced. And you saw that
with Duke this year that you know, in the Final four,
(09:49):
they blew that game because they had a bunch of
super talented guys who'd never been in that situation before
and just made mistakes. And I think that the emphasis
in college basketball of getting veteran players who can lead
is change. I mean, that's changing. That is a that
is something that people are realizing that if you want
to win a championship, you need those guys and Indiana
(10:09):
just got a ton of those guys. Now, again, you're right,
they haven't done it at this level. We don't know
what they're gonna do once they're on the Florid Assembly Hall,
and that is hard to project. So I do think
it lowers the ceiling a little bit, but it's not
necessarily a giant negative. I don't want that to be
the message here because I do think that these are
(10:29):
guys who know how to play college basketball, who are veterans,
who are going to be tough, and who are grown
men in a lot of in a lot of ways
as opposed to being nineteen year olds who are transferring
from a lower level. But a lot of them put
up big numbers, like maybe not big, but like good
numbers at the lower levels too, so they're at least
going to do something when they come up to that height.
So I mean, we Bailey average like eighteen points a game,
(10:53):
you know. I mean, it's you've got a lot of
guys that were the best player on their team coming
to Indiana. So that's that's what I find interesting about it.
We don't know, but there's a lot of good in there.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, and they also I think did a good job later,
maybe in the process of finding some guys that had
multiple seasons of eligibility, because the one thing that I
worried about when it first started, and after the first
couple of commitments, it's like, do you really want to
have to do this whole thing over again? I don't
think you wanted. You know, people ask me, you know,
(11:27):
shouldn't they go get some freshmen. I'm thinking a better
sweet spot maybe in recruiting right now is to go
find a guy who's played at North Florida for a
couple of years and developed, and you at least have
something to kind of put on paper and say this
guy did this, rather than going and reaching for a
high school kid who maybe ranked two hundred. They could
pan out, but they may not be able to help
(11:49):
you next year. And I think Indiana was in a
mode of we got to find guys that can help
right away next season, whether you're the tenth man or
the eleventh man. I think there's gonna be scenarios where
different guys are gonna get chances to play, whether you
have injuries, and you don't necessarily know, as you said,
what what you're gonna get out of every guy. So
I do think they did a nice job of being
able to mix in the experience but also find guys
(12:11):
like Josiah Miles, Jason Drake. There's a couple of Josh Harris,
I'm sure, I'm forgetting a couple of other names that have
multiple seasons of eligibiles.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah. And then and then you got Sisily too. Yeah.
And I think what's interesting to me, I do think
they're going to take a big high school a recruiting
class in twenty twenty six. Is that sort of telegraph
I've gotten. So I think that you'll have again projected,
you know, depending you'll have Miles Drake, dorn Cisly hair Horn, Yeah, yeah,
(12:46):
potentially coming back. And then you add a handful of
freshmen and then you can go get one or two
transfer portal guys instead of doing this whole thing. But
I do think that I don't want to say there's
pressure to win this year, but they need to start winning.
And I think that like that I saw that where
the program has been and where he wants to take it,
you got to win in year one to get people
behind you and get the money behind you and get
(13:07):
all those things, you know. And and I think that
it's a smart way they have constructed this roster. I mean,
obviously it's smart if it works. But I do agree
that that getting some guys with that that you can
then carry over to the next year is very important
because you don't want to be doing ten transfer portal
guys now. You just don't.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
That's the coaches. The coaches definitely don't want to do.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It, I know. And and it's that's not a recipe
for long term success.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
It isn't.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I think that, you know, there are times where you're
gonna have to do that because of bad fits transfers.
You get a lot of guys, you get maybe you
have a successful season, guys go out early that you
were expecting to come back or whatever. That's going to happen.
But that can't be your yearly churn. If you want
to be a successful program, you've got to build culture
and keep it intact.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
So a bit of maybe a loaded question here, but
I'll let you take the the fire on this one,
depending on which way you want to go with it.
But what's your take on Luke Goodie? And apparently now
Anthony Leil there was a report that he's trying to
get an extra year of eligibility from an IU perspective,
you know, I know you look at this more of
maybe the fan lens that I do. What are your
(14:16):
thoughts on those guys coming back? Do you think that's
something that the fan base is going to welcome, that
they should welcome, or how do you kind of approach
that From looking at both of those players.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'll start with Goody. I think that he deserves another
year given the way that year played out. I know
it's not exactly as you get in medical red shirt
or usually it's for a season ending injury, but he
played below the threshold of games. I think he should
get that year back, and honestly, I'd be happy to
have him back as a fan. I absolutely, and it's
very clear from what I have been told that the
(14:48):
coaching staff will be happy to have him back as well,
and let him know that, you know, if you want
to come back back. The Anthony Leal thing kind of
came out of nowhere, and I thought that was a done,
you know, an over But honestly, given what Anthony Leal
had to play through during his career, if I were him,
I'd want to come back to and get like the
(15:09):
bad taste out of my mouth of the way things ended.
I know there has been some some people in the
fan base who think that, hey, dude, just move on like,
you know whatever. And there was some things said, you know,
where he knew he maybe didn't endear himself to the
fan base. But Anthony and Leal always played incredibly hard
for Indiana. He clearly loves Indiana as some of the
(15:29):
call We dealt with him a little bit from time
to time, and great kid, and you know what, he's
a Bloomington kid. If he wants to play for Indiana
and he can get the waiver, I would be all
for it. And again, for how difficult his career has been,
I understand why he'd want to come back and have
a better season to finish things on, and so I
(15:51):
support that if he wants to do it, as long
as you know, there's that whole thing about revenue sharing
and all of that and how that's gonna drag down
everybody else's you know, potentially bring in less money and
all of that. There's all those new things to be considered,
and they're the projection, you know. I think multiple people
are reported they really want to have thirteen roster guys,
and with Leel, I believe it's gonna be fourteen if
(16:12):
they both come back, So that'd be right now they
have eleven, so they have eleven, Okay, so it would
be thirteen.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Okay, right, Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I wasn't Yeah, at the last count, I wasn't sure.
But so it look, if it doesn't impact anybody else,
and it's they're gonna be you know, you would assume
Leo's not gonna play very much with these guys because
Derez brought in his own guys. But if he wants
to be there and provide some you know, leadership and
you know, be there and have a better final season,
I good for him, Like if he can get it.
(16:41):
And I also want to say, I don't think either
of these guys would have pursued this without entering the
transfer portal if Derees wasn't okay with it, Like, so,
I mean they've clearly had those conversations, I would say,
And so I don't know if people have a problem
with it, I would say, if they're doing it, the
(17:02):
coaching staff likely doesn't have a problem with it and
would likely welcome it as well.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, it's a little different. It's some of the other
ones that we've seen, because there was I do this
crazy thing in the spring, which I don't know why
I do it every year, but I talk myself into
it where I track every transfer in the Big ten
and I constantly update it. It's just the way that
I like to keep track of the rosters and lets
me kind of know who's coming and going. But towards
(17:27):
the end of the window, there started to be all
these guys that started to pop in the portal that
I knew didn't have eligibility left. And there's a story
I think in The Athletic, which I think is on
the New York Times dot com or whatever website now
with their transition over to the Times, but there's a
story about I think there's over one hundred guys who
entered the portal that don't technically have eligibility left, which
(17:49):
I don't necessarily love. For the sake of there has
to be some kind of cut off point, right for
all this. It can't just be stay in school for
six or seven years or eight years. There has to
be some type of cutoff. I'm just curious what you
think about, maybe not specifically to Leal and Goodie but
but do you agree that there needs to be some
kind of UH rule set in place to where we
(18:13):
can't have all these guys just in the portal that
don't really technically have eligibility. It's just creating unnecessary chaos.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
What we need is like an official guidance on what
eligibility is. And I think that, you know, the COVID
year messed everything up because then these guys were in
for like six years because they had six to five
to play or six to play five of it essentially,
and then you know, with medical red shirts, there's all
these like you know, gray areas with it and things.
I just think that the NCAA, and I realize the
NCAA is there directives mean nothing now, but I just
(18:44):
believe there needs to be something where everybody agrees to Okay,
these are the parameters, like junior college, like we need
to decide whether or not that counts or not. And
and it doesn't the court doesn't count, so it doesn't
And okay, and if that if that's the case, that's
the case. Like you know, once you step on college campus,
you have four years to play or five years to
play for it, like you know, and and I guess
(19:07):
it's six if you get a medical red shirt, but
I just think that needs to be some standard applied.
And if you don't have eligibility left, you are no
longer eligible for the transfer portal like that, you can't.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
That's an understanding is like why why are these guys
going in the portal if they don't have eligibility. But
the I think the bigger issue, I don't want to
say issue I have with it because obviously if there's
a rule, if there's a loophole out there that you
can exploit, go exploit it. But yeah, I don't understand
the lack of transparency in terms of how they're approving
these waivers because we're seeing these kind of like spill
(19:39):
out on Twitter, like on a every day it's someone else,
like someone was not going to get a waiver, or
someone's going to get a waiver, Like most of them
are all getting stamped cleared at this point because I
think the NCAA realizes that they're not going to be
able to win these arguments in court.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, I think the the NCAA is just like we
don't want to deal with it, like yeah, it just
it just doesn't seem like they're, like you said, there's
no right a reason as to what gets approved and
what doesn't.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
And I think when some of these guys I'm not
speaking to Leal and Goodie, but some of the players
at other schools saw that, you know, there's there's an
opening here that they probably realized, well, I'm not going
to make you know, several hundred thousand dollars going to
play basketball maybe overseas, So why not try to go
to another school for another year and maximize my earnings potential.
(20:26):
I get that. I just think it's created an unnecessary situation.
So the other thing I just wanted to ask you
about was just you mentioned needing to win in year one?
What is that? What do you think that looks like
for Indiana fans to feel good about the direction of
the program because we saw Mark Pope and these are
(20:47):
going to be the natural comparisons that everyone's gonna have.
We saw Mark Pope take over at Kentucky last year,
go to the Sweet sixteen. We saw Pat Kelsey take
over at Louisville, which is in far worse shape than Indiana.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Was dumster fire.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Right, he goes to the tournament, you know they run
into Creighton, which was an unfortunate matchup for them and
got beat pretty bad, but they had a really strong
year overall. But there's been other examples of coaches that
maybe didn't start out as strong and kind of built
things up gradually. I mean, Todd Golden, I think kind
of struggled early on in Florida, but maybe not the
best example because the portal wasn't as prominent then as
(21:20):
it was as is now. I'm just kind of curious.
You know, you made a us in comment you got
you gotta win in year one to kind of build
that momentum and get the money, get the fans behind you.
What does that look like from your perspective?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Well, and I think that part of the reason I
feel that way is because of Indiana has been basically
downgraded as a program, and you've got to show where
you're taking it, and not only to the fans and
to the donors and people like that, but also the
high school recruits that know this is an option, Like
bring us back to being an option. We're gonna do
things that will make you better, and we'll also we're
(21:54):
gonna run the kind of offense you want to play in.
We're gonna feature you, like, look how we use these guys.
I mean that kind of stuff is very important for
Indiana in the specific position. Indiana's because Indiana is a
program that has the fan support, It has the money,
it has facillies, it has everything you need. But it
doesn't have the playing style that kids want to play in.
That's that's that's been the problem. It doesn't have the
(22:16):
coaching the kids want to play in. It doesn't have
all of these things. And also kids that come to
a school want to win. They want to win. They
don't want to be on court in the middle of
February getting blown out by forty you know. I mean,
nobody wants to be that. And so it's all of
these things. They can make you better, they can play,
feature you in an offense you want to play in
a defense, you want to plan, and also you're gonna
(22:36):
win games. And so I think that part of that
is at least showing we know how to do all
of those things. Now, I do think for the fans,
he needs to make the tournament near one. And I
think that now, I mean, if.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
You mean it's not really it's not really that high
of a bar.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's not no, for and for year one, I'm setting
the bar there, you know, And and it's if you're
better than that, great, but like you got at least
get in the tournament. We got to break this streak
of not being in the tournament or the pattern where
you're in the tournament one year out the next. Like
that needs to be the base standard for Indiana basketball.
Given the investment and given the fan support, and given
(23:13):
all of the tradition, all of those things, you need
to be making the tournament every year. And so him
getting in the first year needs happening. I almost did
it at West Virginia without two of his best players,
you know. So you think that you're able to do
that in year one. And again I'm not saying that's
a high bar. I'm saying that's a low bar, and
it needs to happen. And if you do it, I
(23:34):
think you can you can reason that, Hey, this has
been a success. We got in the tournament. We're building
from there. We've shown you what we can do. Now
let us get all the players we want. Let us
fully implement our system over multiple years and show you
what we can do. I don't think he needs to
compete for a Big Ten title in his first year
on campus with ten new players. You know, I don't think.
(23:55):
I just don't think that's going to happen, and I
don't think that that's a reasonable expectation. But making the
tournament is a reasonable expectation, and I think that he
can do it.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I also think how you lose matters one hundred percent there.
I mean, how many postgame shows have you done in
the last I don't know. I mean going back to
Creems last year, where you come on it's a road game,
You probably sit down to watch the game and you
knew going into the game that they weren't gonna win,
and then you come on the postgame show they lost
by fifteen or twenty five or whatever it was, and
(24:26):
it's like, well, it's the same story over and over.
I would just like to see more competitiveness in those
types of situations, like give yourself a chance to compete
every now. I realize you're not gonna win every game,
and you might have a game where you go out
and get beat by twenty. That happens to pretty much
everybody at some point. But don't have it, don't have
it be a pattern. Don't have it be every time,
(24:47):
you know, you go on the road to Michigan, or
every time you go on the road to Iowa, every
time you go to Nebraska, the expectation is, well, we're
gonna play, We're gonna we're gonna go and play, but
we're not gonna win.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
That.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
To me, that's kind of been the mentality of IU
on the road for so long, and yeah, I think
that needs to change too. I mean, you have to
be competitive night in and night out if you want
to be a team that's gonna make the tournament consistently.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, I mean, everyone's gonna have an off night or two.
That happens. But like you're right knowing going in, Okay,
we're probably gonna lose this by fifteen or more. You know,
is not acceptable. And it's again like saying it again.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I can tell you. I can tell you Kentucky and Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan, State, Yukon, Florida, whoever.
You know, schools that are considered you know, blue blood Kansas.
They're not going on the road thinking that. But I
think for a long time, Indiana fans have gotten that
feeling because that's what they've watched, and they should agree.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
And they have no reason to not believe that, quite frankly,
and I mean there have been times where we've been
doing the postgame show and we're giving the exact I mean,
we feel it. I'm sure the audience feels we're saying
the exact same things every single time. It's just I
remember once, I think it was during Archie's year, like
we got to a point in the postgame show and
it was clearly with like four straight games we'd had
(26:05):
the exact same complaints and we're sitting there and we
all just stopped talking. We're silent for about thirty seconds.
I was like, does anyone want to talk about burritos
or something else? Like can we just get off this subject,
because I don't want to do this anymore. You know.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
It's like i'd tell you, it's also probably not a
good idea to come out and lose your first home
game by twelve points like Archie did. I think the
things that kind of stick out to me is like
it can't happen for degrees, like don't lose your first
game by by twenty or whatever on your home court.
Don't have these periods in the middle of Big Ten,
like in January or February, it seems like we you
(26:41):
lose five in a row, and it's like you can
see it when the schedule comes out, like this is
gonna be five. No, you got to figure out a
way to not lose five in a row.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean, I mean your basic job as a
coach figure out a way to not lose five in
a row. You know, I think that that that should
be written into the contract. But no, I think that
with Devrees if you look at the way his teams
played at Drake, and you look, I've watched I've gone
back and watched a lot of that. I watched West
Virginia last West Virginia is interesting last year because they
(27:10):
they a lot of people felt they should have been
in the tournament despite not having Tucker degrees, despite missing
another top score. Like that team fought hard, they played
really hard, and they were competitive all the time. And
if you look at it time at Drake, same thing.
That was a dog fighting team. And I don't know
what it's going to look like at Indiana. Obviously, you
(27:30):
bring in different players, you have different style, you tweak
your style. But I'll also say about the recruiting process
for him, what we've seen from the transfer portal, he
is very clearly taking a different tack, which is, I'm
not going to recruit just talent. I'm recruiting a team,
and he's getting guys that fit together. And that's the
difference from what we have seen where it's been like
(27:52):
just grab all the talent you can. It's more of
an NBA mentality, which makes sense given Mike Woodson, you know,
his career as a coach, Grab all the talent you
can and then we'll make the pieces fit, whereas this
is I'm recruiting specific fits. And I think that if
you look at this team and the roster he's built,
they fit together. You can see a bunch of different
lineups where these guys can all play together in different styles,
(28:15):
in different formats, and they can all shoot, which means
they can probably all play off of each other as well.
So I do think that that's a big mentality change
that we haven't seen in a long time, as he
is recruiting guys who fit together as opposed to just
going down the transfer portal rankings and trying to grab
the top guys. He's not, I mean, bring in talent,
(28:36):
but you bring in talent that also fits together and
fits your system. That's as important as anything else. And
then the next thing is you develop that talent, You
develop those those that chemistry so that when they play together,
it looks like they have played together.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, for sure. Last thing before we get you out
of here, Ryan, you know, a year ago when you
were on the show, you were working for the Big League.
Now you're over Exports Illustraw what you know. Kind of
a maybe sports media nerd question here, so maybe some uh,
some of the listeners will will tail off here. But
what's that transition been like for you? And what what's
it what's it been like working at Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well, I mean, honestly, it's been It was my my
dream job from when I was, you know, ten years old.
I was the kid who raced out to the mailbox
to get Sports Illustrated. I wasn't like a really voracious reader,
but Sports Illustrated of devour, you know, front to back
every word, So you know, landing there was an absolute
dream or the parent company, the Big Lead, wound up
(29:35):
getting the and I was at the Big Lead for
for eight years, and the parent company wound up getting
the the rights to Sports Illustrated and transition dust over there,
and uh, you know, it's been it's it's you write
for one place for so long and then you move
to another place. It's a different style of writing. There
was a bit of a I wouldn't say a rocky transition,
but just an interesting kind of change to the way
I was doing things. And so that's been, you know,
(29:59):
u certainly challenging, but maybe a good challenge at this
part of my career. But it's honestly, I can't complain
about it. You know, it's the place that I always
wanted to work and it's been, you know great. Behind
the scenes, I feel like our company is really investing
in Sports Illustrated given what happened at their old place
where there's a lot of bad stuff happening, They've really
(30:20):
invested in in the you know, in bringing people in
and changing the way we're doing things and helping the
editorial standards. So it's been absolutely rewarding so far. I
got to I mean, you know, as a as a
sports nerd Alex, I got to cover my hometown team
in the baseball playoff, in the Major League Baseball Playoffs
at home last year. Like that's just you know, sitting
(30:42):
at Peco Park covering the Padres and Dodgers was I
mean one of the coolest things I've ever done in
my career.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So now I'm getting to do.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Stuff like that and have that sports illustrated you know
you arel to right from and having you know, sports
illustrated on my resume is just a dream come true.
So I'm loving every minute of it. And it's been
you know, one of those things that you never think
is gonna happen, that happens, and you're real happy once
it does.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
That's awesome, man, Happy for you, Happy that things are
being well over there, continue to follow along and listen
to you on assembly call as well. Hopefully there won't
be as many Ryan's rants in the future, right, you
can maybe tone things down right if they're not getting
if there's not a there's not any blowout losses to
talk about, then the rants maybe become a little bit
(31:29):
more tame. Right.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, we'll have to come up with another word for it,
another art word. But yeah, no, I I and honestly,
you know, for the listeners, like I am really excited
about Indiana basketball and where this is headed. For the
first time in a long time. I really am, and
I think that that that this this group has gone
about it the right way. It's been a very short time,
but I'm also excited to see some of these players. Man,
(31:52):
if you're if you want to get excited about any
of basketball, Indiana basketball, go watch the highlights of some
of these guys. I think. I think there are a
lot of fighters that are going to be on this
roster and guys who accomplished a lot and are gonna
be really fun to watch for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Well, Ryan, thanks again for coming on this week's episode
of Podcast on the Brink. Thanks everybody, as always for
listening to the show. If you enjoy the show, please
leave us a rating and a review over on Apple
Podcasts five stars preferably, and also over at Spotify. Leave
us a five star rating and a review, and we'll
be back soon with another episode of Podcast on the
braink
Welcome back to a new episode of podcast on the Brink.
It's Friday, May night, starting to settle in a little
bit to the IU basketball off season. Still some news
here and there. Had a commitment a couple of weeks
ago from Josh Harris, and some recruiting news this week
in terms of offers, but the roster getting pretty much
(00:39):
set at this point, could be a couple additions still
to come. It's funny I was looking back in the archives.
Today's guest, Ryan Phillips of The Assembly Call and Sports Illustrated,
was on the show exactly. I think it was three
hundred and sixty four days ago to today. So we'll
get to Ryan in just a second. But as always,
(01:00):
this week, this episode of Podcasts in the Brink brought
to you our friends at Visit Bloomington. Just because the
basketball season is over doesn't mean the fun stops. Spring
is the perfect time to explore everything Bloomington has to offer.
Pack the trails at Griffy Lake Nature Preserve and then
refuel with local flavors on tap at Upland Brewing Company.
And don't forget about the many music festivals coming to
Bloomington this spring. Whether you're into outdoor adventures, food, or
(01:23):
just relaxing in a vibrant college town. Visit Bloomington's got
you covered. Start planning your spring getaway now at visit
Bloomington dot com. And I think it's right Now is
the perfect time to visit Bloomington because graduations this weekend,
all the moving trucks are moving out. There's gonna be
plenty of space to move around on Kirkwood and enjoy
all the different things in Bloomington, Ryan, welcome back to
(01:44):
the show. Before we get started, I need your go
to spots in Bloomington.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Well, I just had a revelation. Every time I come
into town, the first place they go to dinner is
Uptown Cafe. I love going to Upstairs and I like
upland so it's everything with an up in Bloomington apparently
are my go to spots. But yeah, i'd love I
love getting a classic Nicksburger as well. But yeah, I
mean I brought my girlfriend for the first time this
past year in February and we hit everything. Man, there's
(02:15):
so many great spots, and it really is just so
much fun going back and busy in the town. Probably
like to the degree that like I didn't appreciate it
when I lived there as much to now when I
get back, because there's always, you know, that row of
spots I need to hit. So yeah, Uptown is always
my first dinner though. I love that place.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So I mentioned it's been three hundred and sixty four
days since you've been on the show. A lot has happened.
I mean, we have this conversation last year where we
were there was a lot of excitement. I don't say
I say we were excited, but there was a lot
of excitement among the fan base as to what would
had happened in the portal, the roster that they assembled.
We all know how that all played out. I don't
(02:52):
want to rehash it again, but please don't this now
it kind of feels like, I don't want to say,
in the same spot. But there's a lot of optimism
with a new era for IYU basketball, this transfer portal hall.
What have you made of just kind of this whole
transition process since you know it was in March eighteenth,
Derees was hired March nineteenth, he's introduced, and I think
(03:14):
we had a run of twenty seven days in April
with ten commitments, which is crazy to think about. I
was living the other day. Indiana has the most transfer
portal commitments of any Big ten program, somewhat out of necessity.
But there were other programs, yeah, other programs with coaching
changes too, But I'm just curious, like big picture, what
(03:36):
you've made of this period and kind of where Indiana
sits as of today.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Well, one thing I've really respected about the staff is
there have not been many leaks, you know. I mean,
there's been kind of like they're optimistic about maybe landing
this guy or something, but there hasn't been a lot
of like this is going to happen and then it happens.
It's kind of with recruiting, with picking up new coaches.
I mean a lot of the assistant coach had coaching
and coaching searches. We're pretty behind the scenes. I mean
(04:02):
there was you know, you get a whisper about a
name or two, but you didn't know who it was
going to be and then it would happen. And so
I respect that that they're really just going about their business.
They're not trying to hype it, you know ahead of time.
And with the recruiting stuff, you look at that roster
and I you know, at night and day. From what
we've seen the last four even the last eight years,
(04:25):
this team's going to move like. This is going to
be a very movement heavy roster. They are not going
to be stationary on the perimeter with one post guy
tossing it in and everybody moving around that. This is
going to be a team that is cycling, that is moving,
that is and it's going to be almost out of
necessity because they don't have that back to the Basket Classic,
back to the basket post presence, and so I think
(04:48):
it's gonna take a little gett used to fri Indiana
fans after the last you know, long stretch of basketball
where we've seen that. But it's certainly a positive change
in my opinion, because that's the cloud thing on offense
is move people, move the ball, and that's how you
have success, and that's exactly what it looks like they're
going to do. And then defensively, you look at some
(05:08):
of these guys and again a lot of them are
transitioning from lower level programs to Power five and there
isn't a lot of Power five experience that is coming
over in the transfer portal. But you look at their pedigrees,
and these guys are a lot of like great on
ball defenders and are you know, put a lot of
pressure on the ball. And again that's a necessity if
(05:29):
you don't have a classic rim protector, you know, a
seven foot or at a back weighting to help you out.
You got to put a lot of ball pressure on
and make people uncomfortable. So I love the way this is.
This has worked, especially for a first year roster. It's
maybe not the ideal roster in year four where you're
trying to make a run for national championship, but for
a first year roster, in establishing your culture and establishing
(05:49):
what you want to do and then seeing how his
teams have played in the past, this fits. And I
think it's going to be a brand of basketball. It's
going to be really fun to watch and hopefully a
successful brand of basketball as well. But I've really liked
how that the staff has gone about this. I feel
like it's very working. It's not flashy. It is we're
gonna get the guys we want to get, put them
(06:11):
in a position, and we're not going to talk about it.
We're just gonna do it. And at the end, once
we have our stuff together. We can talk to me
about it.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
It doesn't feel like there's a lot of hey, look
at us, like look at the things we're doing. It's
more just done, let's move to the next one.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah, I mean, from from covering the whole this whole
period in terms of a recruiting perspective, you make a
good point in terms of the lack of information. It's
not that there wasn't knowledge that certain guys were on
campus or visits were going to happen. There was a
(06:46):
there was a there was a pretty strong feeling on
certain guys, but it wasn't coming from the staff like
maybe it was in the past. And that's no knock
on the previous staff or previous staffs. But a lot
of this stuff now is so agent driven with the portal,
I think that's where a lot of it was coming from.
But there was even an instance which kind of I
don't remember this ever happening, you know, Sam, when Sam
(07:08):
Alexis committed from Florida. I don't think anyone knew that
was That was just kind of out of nowhere, been
mentioned of it, mentioned of him, I think by a
couple of people. But it was basically out of nowhere.
I want to go back to something you said just
about kind of these being lower level guys coming up
a level. How much do you think that maybe limits
(07:30):
the ceiling for what Indiana can do in year one?
Or do you think now in this era of player
movement and you know what we saw with some of
the teams in the final four, I mean, Florida obviously
had plenty of guys that moved up from the mid
major level. I don't even maybe some of them were
even lower major. But with this roster, do you think
that puts kind of a cap on what Indiana is
(07:51):
going to be able to accomplish next year? Because you
look at it and you're right, I mean there's I mean,
Tucker Dereeze played what eight games at the high major
level last season? Alexis played at Florida depending on whether
Luke Goodie's back, I mean, he would obviously be a
guy that would have high major experience. Other than that,
it's a bunch of guys who are going to be
(08:12):
I would I would think the coaching staff wants these
guys to come in and play with a tip on
their shoulder and so they belong. But I'm just curious
if you think it maybe limits the ceiling of this
team based on just the talent level.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well more than anything, it just it's hard to project
what they will look like. And I think that you know,
when you have a guy going from you know, a
Power five program to another Power five program, you can
kind of well, while it might be acc to Big ten,
so it's not exactly the same, you can kind of
see what they've done and kind of product. When you're
going from a lower level to higher, you you don't
know what that's going to look like. Like Lamar Wilkers
(08:44):
an amazing three point shooter. Was he facing guys who
was as athletic as he's going to face in the
Big Ten? Probably not, So maybe those percentages drop it.
But the one thing I will say about it, and
why I temper my yeah, it's, you know it limits
the ceiling is that these guys all have a lot
of experience. It's playing college basketball. That's the other thing
they're not taking. You know, well, it's it's not all
(09:05):
a talent projection. It's these guys have produced. And I
mean you've got guys who like Connorway was the Sunbell
Player of the Year. You know, and just because you
haven't heard of him, doesn't it you know, like the
average fan hasn't heard him, doesn't mean he hasn't had
a successful I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
They played Kentucky in the NCAA Tournament last year, So
it's not like he's never been on the court with
those guys and performed right exactly year.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
So yeah, no, exactly, And I think that that, you know,
so it's not that these guys haven't had success. And
I think that honestly, in college basketball for me, over
the last few years, if you look at the Final four,
if you look at the Elite eight, it's a lot
of experienced teams, and it's or at least teams that
have leaders that are very experienced. And you saw that
with Duke this year that you know, in the Final four,
(09:49):
they blew that game because they had a bunch of
super talented guys who'd never been in that situation before
and just made mistakes. And I think that the emphasis
in college basketball of getting veteran players who can lead
is change. I mean, that's changing. That is a that
is something that people are realizing that if you want
to win a championship, you need those guys and Indiana
(10:09):
just got a ton of those guys. Now, again, you're right,
they haven't done it at this level. We don't know
what they're gonna do once they're on the Florid Assembly Hall,
and that is hard to project. So I do think
it lowers the ceiling a little bit, but it's not
necessarily a giant negative. I don't want that to be
the message here because I do think that these are
(10:29):
guys who know how to play college basketball, who are veterans,
who are going to be tough, and who are grown
men in a lot of in a lot of ways
as opposed to being nineteen year olds who are transferring
from a lower level. But a lot of them put
up big numbers, like maybe not big, but like good
numbers at the lower levels too, so they're at least
going to do something when they come up to that height.
So I mean, we Bailey average like eighteen points a game,
(10:53):
you know. I mean, it's you've got a lot of
guys that were the best player on their team coming
to Indiana. So that's that's what I find interesting about it.
We don't know, but there's a lot of good in there.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, and they also I think did a good job later,
maybe in the process of finding some guys that had
multiple seasons of eligibility, because the one thing that I
worried about when it first started, and after the first
couple of commitments, it's like, do you really want to
have to do this whole thing over again? I don't
think you wanted. You know, people ask me, you know,
(11:27):
shouldn't they go get some freshmen. I'm thinking a better
sweet spot maybe in recruiting right now is to go
find a guy who's played at North Florida for a
couple of years and developed, and you at least have
something to kind of put on paper and say this
guy did this, rather than going and reaching for a
high school kid who maybe ranked two hundred. They could
pan out, but they may not be able to help
(11:49):
you next year. And I think Indiana was in a
mode of we got to find guys that can help
right away next season, whether you're the tenth man or
the eleventh man. I think there's gonna be scenarios where
different guys are gonna get chances to play, whether you
have injuries, and you don't necessarily know, as you said,
what what you're gonna get out of every guy. So
I do think they did a nice job of being
able to mix in the experience but also find guys
(12:11):
like Josiah Miles, Jason Drake. There's a couple of Josh Harris,
I'm sure, I'm forgetting a couple of other names that have
multiple seasons of eligibiles.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah. And then and then you got Sisily too. Yeah.
And I think what's interesting to me, I do think
they're going to take a big high school a recruiting
class in twenty twenty six. Is that sort of telegraph
I've gotten. So I think that you'll have again projected,
you know, depending you'll have Miles Drake, dorn Cisly hair Horn, Yeah, yeah,
(12:46):
potentially coming back. And then you add a handful of
freshmen and then you can go get one or two
transfer portal guys instead of doing this whole thing. But
I do think that I don't want to say there's
pressure to win this year, but they need to start winning.
And I think that like that I saw that where
the program has been and where he wants to take it,
you got to win in year one to get people
behind you and get the money behind you and get
(13:07):
all those things, you know. And and I think that
it's a smart way they have constructed this roster. I mean,
obviously it's smart if it works. But I do agree
that that getting some guys with that that you can
then carry over to the next year is very important
because you don't want to be doing ten transfer portal
guys now. You just don't.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
That's the coaches. The coaches definitely don't want to do.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It, I know. And and it's that's not a recipe
for long term success.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
It isn't.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I think that, you know, there are times where you're
gonna have to do that because of bad fits transfers.
You get a lot of guys, you get maybe you
have a successful season, guys go out early that you
were expecting to come back or whatever. That's going to happen.
But that can't be your yearly churn. If you want
to be a successful program, you've got to build culture
and keep it intact.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
So a bit of maybe a loaded question here, but
I'll let you take the the fire on this one,
depending on which way you want to go with it.
But what's your take on Luke Goodie? And apparently now
Anthony Leil there was a report that he's trying to
get an extra year of eligibility from an IU perspective,
you know, I know you look at this more of
maybe the fan lens that I do. What are your
(14:16):
thoughts on those guys coming back? Do you think that's
something that the fan base is going to welcome, that
they should welcome, or how do you kind of approach
that From looking at both of those players.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'll start with Goody. I think that he deserves another
year given the way that year played out. I know
it's not exactly as you get in medical red shirt
or usually it's for a season ending injury, but he
played below the threshold of games. I think he should
get that year back, and honestly, I'd be happy to
have him back as a fan. I absolutely, and it's
very clear from what I have been told that the
(14:48):
coaching staff will be happy to have him back as well,
and let him know that, you know, if you want
to come back back. The Anthony Leal thing kind of
came out of nowhere, and I thought that was a done,
you know, an over But honestly, given what Anthony Leal
had to play through during his career, if I were him,
I'd want to come back to and get like the
(15:09):
bad taste out of my mouth of the way things ended.
I know there has been some some people in the
fan base who think that, hey, dude, just move on like,
you know whatever. And there was some things said, you know,
where he knew he maybe didn't endear himself to the
fan base. But Anthony and Leal always played incredibly hard
for Indiana. He clearly loves Indiana as some of the
(15:29):
call We dealt with him a little bit from time
to time, and great kid, and you know what, he's
a Bloomington kid. If he wants to play for Indiana
and he can get the waiver, I would be all
for it. And again, for how difficult his career has been,
I understand why he'd want to come back and have
a better season to finish things on, and so I
(15:51):
support that if he wants to do it, as long
as you know, there's that whole thing about revenue sharing
and all of that and how that's gonna drag down
everybody else's you know, potentially bring in less money and
all of that. There's all those new things to be considered,
and they're the projection, you know. I think multiple people
are reported they really want to have thirteen roster guys,
and with Leel, I believe it's gonna be fourteen if
(16:12):
they both come back, So that'd be right now they
have eleven, so they have eleven, Okay, so it would
be thirteen.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Okay, right, Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I wasn't Yeah, at the last count, I wasn't sure.
But so it look, if it doesn't impact anybody else,
and it's they're gonna be you know, you would assume
Leo's not gonna play very much with these guys because
Derez brought in his own guys. But if he wants
to be there and provide some you know, leadership and
you know, be there and have a better final season,
I good for him, Like if he can get it.
(16:41):
And I also want to say, I don't think either
of these guys would have pursued this without entering the
transfer portal if Derees wasn't okay with it, Like, so,
I mean they've clearly had those conversations, I would say,
And so I don't know if people have a problem
with it, I would say, if they're doing it, the
(17:02):
coaching staff likely doesn't have a problem with it and
would likely welcome it as well.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, it's a little different. It's some of the other
ones that we've seen, because there was I do this
crazy thing in the spring, which I don't know why
I do it every year, but I talk myself into
it where I track every transfer in the Big ten
and I constantly update it. It's just the way that
I like to keep track of the rosters and lets
me kind of know who's coming and going. But towards
(17:27):
the end of the window, there started to be all
these guys that started to pop in the portal that
I knew didn't have eligibility left. And there's a story
I think in The Athletic, which I think is on
the New York Times dot com or whatever website now
with their transition over to the Times, but there's a
story about I think there's over one hundred guys who
entered the portal that don't technically have eligibility left, which
(17:49):
I don't necessarily love. For the sake of there has
to be some kind of cut off point, right for
all this. It can't just be stay in school for
six or seven years or eight years. There has to
be some type of cutoff. I'm just curious what you
think about, maybe not specifically to Leal and Goodie but
but do you agree that there needs to be some
kind of UH rule set in place to where we
(18:13):
can't have all these guys just in the portal that
don't really technically have eligibility. It's just creating unnecessary chaos.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
What we need is like an official guidance on what
eligibility is. And I think that, you know, the COVID
year messed everything up because then these guys were in
for like six years because they had six to five
to play or six to play five of it essentially,
and then you know, with medical red shirts, there's all
these like you know, gray areas with it and things.
I just think that the NCAA, and I realize the
NCAA is there directives mean nothing now, but I just
(18:44):
believe there needs to be something where everybody agrees to Okay,
these are the parameters, like junior college, like we need
to decide whether or not that counts or not. And
and it doesn't the court doesn't count, so it doesn't
And okay, and if that if that's the case, that's
the case. Like you know, once you step on college campus,
you have four years to play or five years to
play for it, like you know, and and I guess
(19:07):
it's six if you get a medical red shirt, but
I just think that needs to be some standard applied.
And if you don't have eligibility left, you are no
longer eligible for the transfer portal like that, you can't.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
That's an understanding is like why why are these guys
going in the portal if they don't have eligibility. But
the I think the bigger issue, I don't want to
say issue I have with it because obviously if there's
a rule, if there's a loophole out there that you
can exploit, go exploit it. But yeah, I don't understand
the lack of transparency in terms of how they're approving
these waivers because we're seeing these kind of like spill
(19:39):
out on Twitter, like on a every day it's someone else,
like someone was not going to get a waiver, or
someone's going to get a waiver, Like most of them
are all getting stamped cleared at this point because I
think the NCAA realizes that they're not going to be
able to win these arguments in court.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, I think the the NCAA is just like we
don't want to deal with it, like yeah, it just
it just doesn't seem like they're, like you said, there's
no right a reason as to what gets approved and
what doesn't.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
And I think when some of these guys I'm not
speaking to Leal and Goodie, but some of the players
at other schools saw that, you know, there's there's an
opening here that they probably realized, well, I'm not going
to make you know, several hundred thousand dollars going to
play basketball maybe overseas, So why not try to go
to another school for another year and maximize my earnings potential.
(20:26):
I get that. I just think it's created an unnecessary situation.
So the other thing I just wanted to ask you
about was just you mentioned needing to win in year one?
What is that? What do you think that looks like
for Indiana fans to feel good about the direction of
the program because we saw Mark Pope and these are
(20:47):
going to be the natural comparisons that everyone's gonna have.
We saw Mark Pope take over at Kentucky last year,
go to the Sweet sixteen. We saw Pat Kelsey take
over at Louisville, which is in far worse shape than Indiana.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Was dumster fire.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Right, he goes to the tournament, you know they run
into Creighton, which was an unfortunate matchup for them and
got beat pretty bad, but they had a really strong
year overall. But there's been other examples of coaches that
maybe didn't start out as strong and kind of built
things up gradually. I mean, Todd Golden, I think kind
of struggled early on in Florida, but maybe not the
best example because the portal wasn't as prominent then as
(21:20):
it was as is now. I'm just kind of curious.
You know, you made a us in comment you got
you gotta win in year one to kind of build
that momentum and get the money, get the fans behind you.
What does that look like from your perspective?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Well, and I think that part of the reason I
feel that way is because of Indiana has been basically
downgraded as a program, and you've got to show where
you're taking it, and not only to the fans and
to the donors and people like that, but also the
high school recruits that know this is an option, Like
bring us back to being an option. We're gonna do
things that will make you better, and we'll also we're
(21:54):
gonna run the kind of offense you want to play in.
We're gonna feature you, like, look how we use these guys.
I mean that kind of stuff is very important for
Indiana in the specific position. Indiana's because Indiana is a
program that has the fan support, It has the money,
it has facillies, it has everything you need. But it
doesn't have the playing style that kids want to play in.
That's that's that's been the problem. It doesn't have the
(22:16):
coaching the kids want to play in. It doesn't have
all of these things. And also kids that come to
a school want to win. They want to win. They
don't want to be on court in the middle of
February getting blown out by forty you know. I mean,
nobody wants to be that. And so it's all of
these things. They can make you better, they can play,
feature you in an offense you want to play in
a defense, you want to plan, and also you're gonna
(22:36):
win games. And so I think that part of that
is at least showing we know how to do all
of those things. Now, I do think for the fans,
he needs to make the tournament near one. And I
think that now, I mean, if.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
You mean it's not really it's not really that high
of a bar.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's not no, for and for year one, I'm setting
the bar there, you know, And and it's if you're
better than that, great, but like you got at least
get in the tournament. We got to break this streak
of not being in the tournament or the pattern where
you're in the tournament one year out the next. Like
that needs to be the base standard for Indiana basketball.
Given the investment and given the fan support, and given
(23:13):
all of the tradition, all of those things, you need
to be making the tournament every year. And so him
getting in the first year needs happening. I almost did
it at West Virginia without two of his best players,
you know. So you think that you're able to do
that in year one. And again I'm not saying that's
a high bar. I'm saying that's a low bar, and
it needs to happen. And if you do it, I
(23:34):
think you can you can reason that, Hey, this has
been a success. We got in the tournament. We're building
from there. We've shown you what we can do. Now
let us get all the players we want. Let us
fully implement our system over multiple years and show you
what we can do. I don't think he needs to
compete for a Big Ten title in his first year
on campus with ten new players. You know, I don't think.
(23:55):
I just don't think that's going to happen, and I
don't think that that's a reasonable expectation. But making the
tournament is a reasonable expectation, and I think that he
can do it.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I also think how you lose matters one hundred percent there.
I mean, how many postgame shows have you done in
the last I don't know. I mean going back to
Creems last year, where you come on it's a road game,
You probably sit down to watch the game and you
knew going into the game that they weren't gonna win,
and then you come on the postgame show they lost
by fifteen or twenty five or whatever it was, and
(24:26):
it's like, well, it's the same story over and over.
I would just like to see more competitiveness in those
types of situations, like give yourself a chance to compete
every now. I realize you're not gonna win every game,
and you might have a game where you go out
and get beat by twenty. That happens to pretty much
everybody at some point. But don't have it, don't have
it be a pattern. Don't have it be every time,
(24:47):
you know, you go on the road to Michigan, or
every time you go on the road to Iowa, every
time you go to Nebraska, the expectation is, well, we're
gonna play, We're gonna we're gonna go and play, but
we're not gonna win.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
That.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
To me, that's kind of been the mentality of IU
on the road for so long, and yeah, I think
that needs to change too. I mean, you have to
be competitive night in and night out if you want
to be a team that's gonna make the tournament consistently.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, I mean, everyone's gonna have an off night or two.
That happens. But like you're right knowing going in, Okay,
we're probably gonna lose this by fifteen or more. You know,
is not acceptable. And it's again like saying it again.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I can tell you. I can tell you Kentucky and Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan, State, Yukon, Florida, whoever.
You know, schools that are considered you know, blue blood Kansas.
They're not going on the road thinking that. But I
think for a long time, Indiana fans have gotten that
feeling because that's what they've watched, and they should agree.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
And they have no reason to not believe that, quite frankly,
and I mean there have been times where we've been
doing the postgame show and we're giving the exact I mean,
we feel it. I'm sure the audience feels we're saying
the exact same things every single time. It's just I
remember once, I think it was during Archie's year, like
we got to a point in the postgame show and
it was clearly with like four straight games we'd had
(26:05):
the exact same complaints and we're sitting there and we
all just stopped talking. We're silent for about thirty seconds.
I was like, does anyone want to talk about burritos
or something else? Like can we just get off this subject,
because I don't want to do this anymore. You know.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
It's like i'd tell you, it's also probably not a
good idea to come out and lose your first home
game by twelve points like Archie did. I think the
things that kind of stick out to me is like
it can't happen for degrees, like don't lose your first
game by by twenty or whatever on your home court.
Don't have these periods in the middle of Big Ten,
like in January or February, it seems like we you
(26:41):
lose five in a row, and it's like you can
see it when the schedule comes out, like this is
gonna be five. No, you got to figure out a
way to not lose five in a row.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean, I mean your basic job as a
coach figure out a way to not lose five in
a row. You know, I think that that that should
be written into the contract. But no, I think that
with Devrees if you look at the way his teams
played at Drake, and you look, I've watched I've gone
back and watched a lot of that. I watched West
Virginia last West Virginia is interesting last year because they
(27:10):
they a lot of people felt they should have been
in the tournament despite not having Tucker degrees, despite missing
another top score. Like that team fought hard, they played
really hard, and they were competitive all the time. And
if you look at it time at Drake, same thing.
That was a dog fighting team. And I don't know
what it's going to look like at Indiana. Obviously, you
(27:30):
bring in different players, you have different style, you tweak
your style. But I'll also say about the recruiting process
for him, what we've seen from the transfer portal, he
is very clearly taking a different tack, which is, I'm
not going to recruit just talent. I'm recruiting a team,
and he's getting guys that fit together. And that's the
difference from what we have seen where it's been like
(27:52):
just grab all the talent you can. It's more of
an NBA mentality, which makes sense given Mike Woodson, you know,
his career as a coach, Grab all the talent you
can and then we'll make the pieces fit, whereas this
is I'm recruiting specific fits. And I think that if
you look at this team and the roster he's built,
they fit together. You can see a bunch of different
lineups where these guys can all play together in different styles,
(28:15):
in different formats, and they can all shoot, which means
they can probably all play off of each other as well.
So I do think that that's a big mentality change
that we haven't seen in a long time, as he
is recruiting guys who fit together as opposed to just
going down the transfer portal rankings and trying to grab
the top guys. He's not, I mean, bring in talent,
(28:36):
but you bring in talent that also fits together and
fits your system. That's as important as anything else. And
then the next thing is you develop that talent, You
develop those those that chemistry so that when they play together,
it looks like they have played together.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, for sure. Last thing before we get you out
of here, Ryan, you know, a year ago when you
were on the show, you were working for the Big League.
Now you're over Exports Illustraw what you know. Kind of
a maybe sports media nerd question here, so maybe some uh,
some of the listeners will will tail off here. But
what's that transition been like for you? And what what's
it what's it been like working at Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well, I mean, honestly, it's been It was my my
dream job from when I was, you know, ten years old.
I was the kid who raced out to the mailbox
to get Sports Illustrated. I wasn't like a really voracious reader,
but Sports Illustrated of devour, you know, front to back
every word, So you know, landing there was an absolute
dream or the parent company, the Big Lead, wound up
(29:35):
getting the and I was at the Big Lead for
for eight years, and the parent company wound up getting
the the rights to Sports Illustrated and transition dust over there,
and uh, you know, it's been it's it's you write
for one place for so long and then you move
to another place. It's a different style of writing. There
was a bit of a I wouldn't say a rocky transition,
but just an interesting kind of change to the way
I was doing things. And so that's been, you know,
(29:59):
u certainly challenging, but maybe a good challenge at this
part of my career. But it's honestly, I can't complain
about it. You know, it's the place that I always
wanted to work and it's been, you know great. Behind
the scenes, I feel like our company is really investing
in Sports Illustrated given what happened at their old place
where there's a lot of bad stuff happening, They've really
(30:20):
invested in in the you know, in bringing people in
and changing the way we're doing things and helping the
editorial standards. So it's been absolutely rewarding so far. I
got to I mean, you know, as a as a
sports nerd Alex, I got to cover my hometown team
in the baseball playoff, in the Major League Baseball Playoffs
at home last year. Like that's just you know, sitting
(30:42):
at Peco Park covering the Padres and Dodgers was I
mean one of the coolest things I've ever done in
my career.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So now I'm getting to do.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Stuff like that and have that sports illustrated you know
you arel to right from and having you know, sports
illustrated on my resume is just a dream come true.
So I'm loving every minute of it. And it's been
you know, one of those things that you never think
is gonna happen, that happens, and you're real happy once
it does.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
That's awesome, man, Happy for you, Happy that things are
being well over there, continue to follow along and listen
to you on assembly call as well. Hopefully there won't
be as many Ryan's rants in the future, right, you
can maybe tone things down right if they're not getting
if there's not a there's not any blowout losses to
talk about, then the rants maybe become a little bit
(31:29):
more tame. Right.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Yeah, we'll have to come up with another word for it,
another art word. But yeah, no, I I and honestly,
you know, for the listeners, like I am really excited
about Indiana basketball and where this is headed. For the
first time in a long time. I really am, and
I think that that that this this group has gone
about it the right way. It's been a very short time,
but I'm also excited to see some of these players. Man,
(31:52):
if you're if you want to get excited about any
of basketball, Indiana basketball, go watch the highlights of some
of these guys. I think. I think there are a
lot of fighters that are going to be on this
roster and guys who accomplished a lot and are gonna
be really fun to watch for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Well, Ryan, thanks again for coming on this week's episode
of Podcast on the Brink. Thanks everybody, as always for
listening to the show. If you enjoy the show, please
leave us a rating and a review over on Apple
Podcasts five stars preferably, and also over at Spotify. Leave
us a five star rating and a review, and we'll
be back soon with another episode of Podcast on the
braink
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.