May 13, 2025 • 36 mins
On this episode, Alex Bozich is joined by Mike DeCourcy of The Sporting News to discuss IU's hiring of Darian DeVries, building a program in 2025, the Big Ten coaching hires this spring and more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
It's Tuesday, May thirteenth, and Mike de Coursi this Forting
News back with us for another episode of Podcasts on
the Brink. Before we get to Mic wanted to take
a moment remind you that this episode of Podcasts on
the Brink brought to you by our friends at Visit Bloomington.
Just because the basketball season is over doesn't mean the
(00:38):
fun stops. Spring is the perfect time to explore everything
Bloomington has to offer. Hike the trails at Griffy Lake
Nature Preserved, and refuel with local flavors on tap at
Upland Brewing Company. And don't forget about the many music
festivals coming to Bloomington this spring. Whether you're into outdoor activities, food,
or just relaxing in a vibrant college town, Visit Bloomington
(00:58):
has you covered. Start planning your spring getaway now at
visit Bloomington dot com. And before we get started, I
just wanted to warn everybody Mike maybe having a little
construction going on at his homestead in the background, So
if you hear any loud banging, rust assured Mike's okay.
Nobody's trying to break in and capture him. So how
you doing, Mike?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm doing great, Allix. It's great to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So been a while since we talked to you. I
feel like we've had this conversation before about what maybe
didn't work out with an IU basketball coach. I think
we had it with Tom Creane. Think we had it
with Archie Miller. I think we had it with Mike Woodson. Now,
you know, but instead of looking back, I want to
look forward. You know, we were talking a little bit
(01:44):
before I hit record. You mentioned you don't know Darren
Devrees all that well, but you have watched him coach,
you have, you know, you know his resume and all
that and what he's accomplished. Obviously at Drake had a
really nice run there had his one season. It was
Virginia where a lot of people, I think, including you
as one of the preeminent bracketologists on the web, or
(02:06):
kind of stunned that they didn't get in the NCAA tournament.
And you can talk about that a little bit if
you want, but just curious, big picture on the hire
for Indiana Darren Devrees, what you thought of it and
maybe what you look for as he gets ready to
get up for his first season on Bloyington.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, I think it starts with when you hire a
basketball coach, they have to be capable coach. They have
to be someone that understands how to win college basketball games.
That's the first place you want to start. And I
think that if you look over the post night history,
Indiana has batted close to a thousand in that department. Obviously,
(02:48):
Mike Davis hadn't coached yet when he got the job,
he hadn't been a head coach, I should say, so
we didn't know where he would be. I think his
record there and subsequently has proved that he can handle
that part of it. But the job at that stage,
with everything that went on, was a lot for him.
And then we had the Calvin thing and that didn't
(03:11):
work out. And then Tom Crane did some very good
things that Indiana with winning the two Big Tens, getting
that number one seed in in twenty thirteen, didn't have
much luck with the draw. It faced just the wrong
team in Syracuse and so everything has gone a little
bit wrong in other areas for Indiana. So that's where
(03:35):
really when you're a coach. Darren in this circumstance has
to focus on getting a roster together, and he's worked
really hard at that. You can see that in the
reports from people like yourself, not necessarily in the public pronouncements,
but in the reports that we know. I mean, you
(03:57):
look at the Wikipedia page for twenty five twenty six
i U basket men's basketball. There's a full roster. Uh
there's a there's a full breakdown of that of what
you're of what you're going to see next season. Uh
So we know what the roster will look like, and
he's done very well at putting together a capable roster,
(04:18):
not exceptionally tall roster, which is a little bit disconcerting.
If you you've got one true big man on the team,
some power forward types, but one true center. You got
to hope that that player stays healthy, uh and that
he is effective against Big ten competition. The Atlantic ten
to the Big ten is not that huge eleape. I mean,
(04:40):
we've seen uh players make the leap from from low
major to high major and succeed. Uh So to ask
Reed Bailey to make the lead from Atlantic ten to
it to Big ten is not that much of a
of an ask. Uh So we'll we'll see that. Uh I.
I think that up and down, he's looked at the
(05:03):
things that matter. When I look at these mid to
low major transfers to high major, the first thing I
look at for a big guy, it's rebounding and block shots.
Just want to see those two things because they translate.
Rebounding translates better than any other statistic from You could
take a guy like twenty years ago, twenty five years gosh,
(05:26):
it's not it's almost thirty years ago now. Malik Rose,
who I saw play at Trexel against Memphis when I
was covering the Tigers in the NCAA tournament. He was
an unbelievable rebounder in what that was then, I think
he was in the Colonial So what do those numbers mean? Well,
they threw him in the NBA and he got rebounds there,
So that stat translates. Block shots are generally going to
(05:49):
translate because it usually involves dynamism, timing the balls in
the air. You can go get it or you can't.
And then the other one for perimeter players, can you
shoot the ball. That's because that if you're open, you're
gonna make a shot. If you're a shooter, you're gonna
make a shot for the most part if they can
get you open. Now there are certainly other degrees can
(06:10):
you get yourself open and that those are the special players.
But if you're a wing player and the can and
they get you open, can you make the shot? So
that's an important component, and I think IU has a
lot of that covered the block shot area a little
bit concerning generally they have. I mean, that's a team
that has a chance to be among the best shooting
teams in college basketball next year based on the people
(06:32):
that they've brought in. So that all and and one
more element of the coaching aspect of it that I'll
talk about with coach Degrees is we saw what he
built at Drexel and it was amazing. Excuse me, not
at drex soil I drink. We saw what he built
there and it was amazing, very impressive. But I went
to I live in Pittsburgh. Now, I went last November
(06:56):
to West Virginia's game at pitt of I. We don't
get a lot of compelling high major games, especially in
non conference here in Pittsburgh. I wasn't going to miss that.
It's a rivalry game. So I go and I don't
remember the exact final score, but Pit one by twenty plus.
And I'm telling Alex, I'm not exaggerating when I say
(07:18):
they could have won by forty plus if they wonted.
It was an absolute annihilation a pit of West Virginia.
And I watched that game and I looked at that
and I said, how is West Virginia going to win
six games this year? And I mean that literally. I
thought that they would be fortunate to win six games.
That's how bad they looked that night. And within two
(07:40):
weeks they are going down to the Bahamas and competing
at the highest level of that tournament. And by the
end of the year they were an absolute They were
robbed by the committee. So in the lingo of sports,
they were robbed. They absolutely should have been an NCAA
tournament team. They should have been in. Yeah, they lost
their first conference tournament game and it was a bad
(08:02):
one to Colorado. Not a good team, but they're not
the only ones that ever did that. Their resumes said
they belonged, and they did not get in. So he
did an amazing coaching job last year and did all
of that with his son Tucker missing enough of the
year that he can be a Hoosier this year. So
(08:23):
that part of it, I think that he absolutely has covered.
He has won at the college level. He's won, He's
won against good teams. He's won under tough circumstances, like
the defeat of Indiana State in the Valley Championship game
in twenty twenty four. I mean, that's a game he
wasn't expected to win. Indiana State was widely expected to
(08:44):
win that game, and they went out on a neutral
floor and they won that game relatively handily. They put
a big number up, big margin, and excuse me, Indiana
State chipped away at it a little bit, but that
was Drexel, excuse me, Drake's game. So the part of
it that now becomes a challenge for him is the
(09:05):
public part. Iu has a unbelievably loyal and passionate following
among the very best in the sport. When you talk
about the big, the big brands in college basketball, Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Ucla,
(09:27):
Indiana's passion matches up with all of them, every one
of them. And so that's something that you have to
cope with as a coach. You have to manage it.
You have to figure and you can't just shut it
out because if you try to shut it out that
that's a defeat. You have to embrace it and use
it to your advantage. And those are the things that
(09:50):
he's going to have to figure out. He's never had
that before. He wasn't at West Virginia long enough, the
only big brand in the state really, and there's a
lot that you can take advantage, So everybody wasn't there
long enough to really get a feel for it. And
then of course at Drake they're the they're at best
the third, maybe the fourth brand in this in college
basketball in the state of Iowa. So he's not had
(10:14):
this before and he's gonna have to He's gonna have
to show that he can deal with it, uh and
that he can use it to his advantage rather than
have it be a disadvantage.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Going back to something you mentioned with the roster, it
kind of stuck out and it seemed like it's something
you had maybe a not concern, but questions on I've
watched Big Ten basketball, off You've you've watched it long
enough to know that there are certain teams in certain
styles of play where they're gonna get the ball inside
and they're just gonna go to work. I mean, Indiana
(10:44):
is one of those teams the last three or four
years under Mike Woodson, even going back to Archie Miller.
But you think about Michigan State last year. They were
a team that made a deep NCAA tournament run. You
looked at their three point volume, they didn't shoot a
lot of threes. They had big, rugged guys in the paint.
You think about the Purdue teams with Zach Edy and
all the big men they've had in the past. How
(11:06):
concerning is it. Maybe that's not the right word, but
Indiana's front court just right now in terms of being
able to go up against most teams in the Big Ten,
or do you think the league is maybe shifting away
with some of the coaching changes that we've seen in
recent years, from being as post dominant as it once was.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I think there are teams that are, and we'll see that,
certainly with Purdue. Trey Kaufman. Wren's low post ability, his
dexterity in the low post matches up with any player
in college basketball, and probably any player in college basketball
just in terms of the ability to make moves and
to score from different areas. Matches up with probably anybody
(11:44):
in the last decade. I mean, he's not seven to
four like Zach was, but his ability to catch it
low and disarm the defense is elite. But that's one
player and one team. I don't think that the league
is as as big dependent as it has been. I mean,
you look at Nate Biddle and I don't know if
(12:04):
we're gonna I expect we'll see him back at Oregon
this this next season or not positive yet, I don't think.
But Nate's a guy who is as dangerous from the
perimeter as he is inside. So I don't think you
have to worry about that quite as much. Particular games, Yes,
you're gonna have to figure out how do you guard Trey.
(12:27):
You have to uh to some extent. And I mean
there have been games where when Zach was big a
couple of years ago, where Michigan State would just play
him straight up and make sure nobody else did anything.
So that that's a choice, and he may get thirty
thirty five on you, but you could still win the
(12:47):
game by shutting everybody else down. So I'm more concerned
in terms of their current front court about just the
idea that you don't have a secondary an you're at center,
so to speak. You your secondary answer is we're small
and that you can win in the league not being huge.
(13:10):
I mean, Purdue was tremendously successful last year. They started
six' eight six.' eight so it's just that, you like
you'd rather be six ten, six ten and if you
can be that without sacrificing, ball, handling, shooting, skill dynamism,
et cetera you'd rather be, six ten. Six ten but.
(13:32):
That's that when you're looking at a team on paper
and you see only one with double digits in the
right hand column to the to the right of, the
dash unless that first number is, a seven it's a little.
Bit concerning what about just the overall?
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Talent LEVEL and i hate to kind of look at it,
like that but obviously the thing we all look at
is where did this guy? Come, from well that maybe
doesn't matter as much now in the, portal ERA where
i think a lot of coaches if you give them
their choice of would you rather have a freshman that's
ranked a hundredth in the country or would you Rather Have,
hayton Connorway The sun belt player Of the year last
(14:11):
year that led his team TO The ncaa tournament and
Played against kentucky in the tournament and played against other high.
Major teams they'd much rather have that than a freshman.
That's unproven but you do look down this roster and, you,
Say Well North. Florida elon, YOU know i don't have
the whole roster in front. Of me but it's a
lot of schools that obviously are a lower level of.
(14:34):
College basketball do you think that matters? At all or
is it more about the coaching and putting the pieces
together and you can compete with those guys At the big.
TEN level, i.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Mean we have seen players that went from low major
to First Team. ALL american i mean that has happened
in the last couple. Of years it's happened on. MULTIPLE occasions,
I mean i'm not sure at this point whether I
own a qualifies as. MID major i Guess when rick,
(15:03):
was coaching it probably Did. Because rick but we've seen
guys that went from that level to First Team, all
america AND so I don't you can't look at the
school and say that. Can't happen it really comes down
(15:23):
to the. Individual player how Good Is, Lamar wilkerson how Good.
Is connorway how Good Is. Josh harris you really aren't
sure until you get them on the floor and you.
See them and those guys have all looked at film
(15:44):
and they're investing in, a sense not their, own money
but they're investing their resources in players that they think
can make a difference on. Their team and and they
and the other part of it is that in some
of them, those cases they beat out other significant programs
And BEAT kentucky i Believe. For wilkerson so that's those guys.
(16:09):
As well we're believing in that player's ability to. PROJECT
forward i Think ultimately indiana is going to want to
build a multi layered program the Way that yukon has. The,
way really if you look at the final four, LAST
(16:30):
year i did, the numbers it was close to sixty percent.
Homegrown players close To sixty it wasn't quite it was
like fifty nine points something. Homegrown players so you'd want
to have a mix. Of that but when you're coming
in the, first year as was, the case, especially now
when if you come in the, first year more often,
(16:53):
than not you're going to lose a massive portion of.
Your roster they're either they may be scheduled to lead
eve or they may decide that you're not right. For
them you came to play for. This guy you have
an opportunity to go. Somewhere else you might as well go.
Somewhere else so that happens now with greater regularity than it.
(17:16):
Ever did so you have. To build if you want
to build a, winner quickly this is the way to.
Do it but if you want to build a championship
level program, right now the history still says you. Want
both you want a mix of high school Guys, and
(17:38):
indiana as, we know has been highly productive in. That
sense you're Bringing In. Trent sisily i'm glad he's staying with.
His commitment i'm Glad that indiana wants him to stay
with his COMMITMENT because i think, over time those that
core guys like that will make you great and then.
(17:59):
YOU implement i think that twenty three and Twenty four
yukon teams are the best example to follow for the
teams that have the option that want to build. Towards
championships you build with guys That Like, steph castle who's an,
elite recruit and we certainly Seen in indiana get guys
(18:20):
like that in. The past you want to get guys,
Like that but you also want to get Guys Like,
jordan hawkins who is a thirty to fifty guy who,
comes in he continues to develop and eventually becomes a lottery.
Level pick you want both of those guys in, your
program and then you want to mix. Into it you
(18:43):
want to mix into it Guys Like, tristan newton who
they needed a. Point guard They thought tristan could make.
The transition it took him four months to, get there
but he got there in time to win the twenty
three championship and then Become An all american. TWENTY four.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I know you talk to a lot of coaches around.
The country i'm Curious and i've seen people write this
or say, this THAT and i don't know how true,
this is but some some schools are just exclusively recruiting,
the portal not as focused on high. School recruiting do
you think that's the case with? Some programs and how
how are programs moving like moving forward prioritizing high school
(19:23):
recruiting versus.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Portal, RECRUITING yeah i do think that there are people
out there doing that that are ignoring, the PORTAL AND
i i mean ignoring. High school she's be ignoring the
high school guys and and focusing strictly on, the Portals
and i'm not positive that that's the way. To go
we have yet to see a team that was almost
(19:48):
exclusively portal based win. The championship that has not. Happened
yet we haven't seen a team that was majority portal win.
A championship florida is probably the most portal champion, we've
HAD and i know we haven't had this circumstance for
a long, time Yet but florida had a very important
(20:08):
core of players that they brought in that how would
be an example of that who is developing into a
terrific PLAYER and i think is going to have a
great twenty five. Twenty six condon. Is another those guys.
Were essential they don't win the championship without. Those, guys
now their starting perimeter was all. Portal guys most of
(20:32):
them were multi year, portal guys which is a little
bit different than the one year. Constant role but they
certainly wouldn't have won It Without. Elijah martin he was
an essential player. For them but for the, most part
they had. Some Continuity, evan mayakawa who does a great
(20:53):
job with College basketball analytics continues to emphasize roster continuity
as an important component of championship. Level success it was
no surprise on using that parameter or the homegrown PARAMETER
that i talked about once we got To the, final
Four that kentucky stalled out at the sweet. Sixteen level
(21:18):
i'm Not Blaming mark pope for what, he did Just
as i'm Not Blaming darren devrees for what he's. DOING
now i think it's smart in, That circumstance but you
want to come behind that with a group of high
school prospects that can be. Core players and then if
you can get one a five star guy to add,
(21:40):
in sure or multiple, five stars you Want to but
those four, star guys those thirty, to seventy those are
the core guys that can really build you toward championship.
Level success it's hard to do it when you're constantly
turning it over and having to constantly be out there in.
The mix and now some of the programs that are
(22:02):
doing that whole portal concept where they're just. They're churning
they're going to have some, down, years uh but they're
not they are seeking to be. Highly successful they're not,
necessarily seeking uh or expecting to. WIN championships i just
want to be in the in the mix because that's
(22:22):
what their programs have been and that and and if
they're in, the mix like if they're at the toward
the toward the top of. Their, league uh if they're
getting TO the ncaa tournament on a regular basis and
success at a lot, of schools but there are other
schools where final fours and championships are not. Necessarily expected,
(22:43):
but uh it's pretty it's pretty regular in their histories
that they. Get there, and uh if you're if you
want to, DO that i just Think that i'm a
big believer in what the patterns of. History show and
right now it still says you want to have core
(23:03):
players who understand, your values who can Introduce An. Elijah
martin this is the way we do Things. At florida
you don't want to be the you want teams to
be somewhat. Self, coached yeah you got to be the
one that says, who plays and you got to be
the one that comes up with the, game plans and
you got to be the one that pushes the ex's
and those around. The whiteboard but when when you give
(23:26):
a lesson in. A drill you don't want to have
to be the one that enforces every aspect. Of it
you want there to be peer peer responsibility and peer
pressure to get it right and then have that apply
eventually to how you want.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
To, PLAY yeah i think looking Back on woodson's Time,
IN indiana i think one of the things that maybe
hasn't talked about as much is the lack of development
of the guys that he got that were kind of
ranked in that, you know fifty to one. Fifty range
Look At jakai newton obviously had injury but never really.
Produced Anything gabe cups is another guy who was around
(24:04):
a top, one hundred top one. Fifty player obviously played
a lot as, a freshman but then was hurt, last
season didn't contribute. To Much caleb banks was a guy
that was around for a couple of years and we
saw him Go to tulane last year and, break out
but his first Two years indiana wasn't really able to
get much out. Of HIM And cj gun's another one
that so there's four guys that can just point to
you right off the top, is like, you know how
(24:26):
much Different does indiana look last year if one or
two of those guys had stepped into bigger roles and
developed into something that they could, have used but in
all four of them now obviously gone from. The PROGRAM
but i do think that's interesting to look at and
contrast with the Program, like, purdue who's, you know dabbling
a little bit in. The portal but for the, Most
(24:46):
Part matt painter's finding guys that maybe are a little
bit undervalued that he. Brings in whether It's A kaufman
wren not, being undervalued but he got him to red
shirt for. A year now he's developed into An all
big ten. Type player and then, last year a guy Like,
se COX who i don't think the high majors were
knocking on his door to get him, To commit purdue,
Gets him he comes in plays a. Big Role braden
(25:08):
smith kind of the, same thing was a guy that
a ton Of probably big ten programs could have been,
in On but purdue. Got him and the list. Goes
ON so i do think you make a great point
just being able to identify, those players bring them into,
your program, retain them and develop them over time really
puts you in a much better position to be competitive
(25:29):
in a year in year.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Out, BASIS yeah i think you can even Alex Use,
mackenzie imbaco who was a, five star as an example
of a player who didn't really develop and BLOSSOM at
iu in his. TWO years, i mean we saw him
as a sophomore have a very inconsistent season and he
should have had a great season based on the fact
that he was a five star who obviously, is talented
(25:52):
who became a sophomore that should be a breakout season in,
the making and it. Didn't happen and now he's at
the com and he's showing. Nice things there's some good
buzz about, him there so we know that the we
thought that the ability, Was there we saw enough flashes
to note that the ability, was there but the consistent
(26:15):
performance was. Not THERE and i THINK that i think
that is another example of where OF where i You
Under mike whitson didn't totally develop the players and didn't
totally utilize the ability of the players that were in
his program to their.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
GREATEST effect i wanted to ask you before we before we,
wrap up just about the other coaching hires That The
big ten had. This Offseason buzz williams Going, to Maryland,
Which Obviously kevin willard moves on from, that situation which
was really kind of a weird one to. Track there
as the end of the season, Went on maryland was
playing its, best basketball advancing in, the tournament and it
seemed like kind of a cloud was hanging over with that.
(26:56):
Whole situation so They Get, buzz williams who. You know
it Seems like buzz likes to go to a place
for what four or, five years and then jump somewhere
else after he's worn out as welcome a, little Bit
but i'm pretty confident that He'll have maryland playing. Winning
Basketball nico medved goes back to his Alma. Moderate minnesota
And then, ben McCollum a name that a lot of
people thought maybe was a potential Guy that indiana would
(27:20):
target Going. To iowa i'm just curious for your thoughts
on those three hires and maybe what you think of each.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Of, Them well i'll Start, with NICO because i think
that that was a. TERRIFIC higher i didn't Love That
ben johnson was. LET go i Thought that ben did
some really. GOOD things, i mean you think about Guys Like,
pharrell payne who we saw deep IN the. Ncaa tournament
if they had had the resources that were available to
(27:46):
some other teams In The, big ten would they have
been able To, keep pharrell would they have been able To?
Keep hawkins and if they did keep those guys and they,
didn't succeed then that would. Be different but they weren't
able to and they wound up with a. Deficient ROSTER
and i thought That they you saw some of the
games that they either won or were right there. AND
(28:07):
beating i believe They beat michigan at home if my memory,
serves now and they put They Pushed ohio state INTO.
DOUBLE ot I thought I, liked BEN but. I can't
i can't help but Admit That nico medford is a.
SIGNIFICANT upgrade, I mean nico has a tremendous, track record,
(28:29):
great resume has shown the ability to compete IN The
Nc double a's a. TRUE winner i don't know what
the resource circumstance will be like for. Him THERE if
i presume he would wouldn't have taken a job if
he didn't believe that it would be enough sufficient for
(28:52):
him to be competitive in one of the best leagues in.
College basketball he's not. Going there he's not trading in
success to go somewhere and not succeed for reasons that
are beyond. HIS control i THINK that i think that
they'll probably do what they need to do there for
him to. Be Successful and minnesota is an underrated basketball
(29:15):
state in terms of, producing talent so we'll see whether
he's able to maybe protect. THE borders I thought ben
did an okay job, at that but maybe even they
can even. Do BETTER so i like the. HIRE there
I obviously iowa McCollum is a, terrific coach not FOUR
time i think national champion AT the d two level
(29:39):
and did a great Job. With drake they were fantastic.
This year but it's a significant change in style and
philosophy from what was the case under fran McCaffrey for basically.
Fifteen years it's a. Fascinating change one of the things
(30:00):
that it struck me about about this whole Process was
grant McCaslin when he Was At north texas played a very,
controlled style. Hyper control maybe not Quite the, drake extreme
but pretty, hyper control and they were they were. VERY effective,
(30:22):
I mean purdue remembers twenty twenty one what they were able.
To DO and I then i see him Go To,
texas tech and now they get guys who can make
shots and drive and play above the rim and all.
That stuff and now all of, a sudden they're, you
know they're a much more. Dynamic team they weren't not
like they were playing in, the nineties but they were
(30:43):
a much more dynamic Team under Grant At texas tech
than they had Been At. North texas so possibly now
with the ability that will be Available to Ben, AT iowa,
i mean we've seen some tremendous players Go through Iowa
in france, time there maybe he loosens up at least a.
(31:04):
Little bit it doesn't have to necessarily be we're going
to rank in the three sixties in tempo. Every year
maybe it doesn't have to. Be that we'll see. What
HAPPENS but i like the higher. Very much And. Then
buzz I've known buzz for gosh twenty almost twenty. Years
now he's. CERTAINLY different i think he'll. He'll be he's
(31:29):
replacing a, Coach who kevin is very personal on a,
one personable on a one on. One basis if you,
know him you, like him is not as dynamic a
personality if you don't. Know, Him Buzz so buzz doesn't
have to replace someone That Like mark pope going in
To REPLACE. JOHN caliperi, I mean john's a. Big personality
(31:54):
mark showed that he is a very interesting personality as
well a. Captivating personality that part wasn't. A problem buzz
doesn't have to worry. About that he doesn't have to
worry about a program that was that was had an
overwhelming personality. To it he can go in. And coach
he's got to. Get, guys uh. He's done he's done
that everywhere. He's Been. Virginia tech marquette is a great eye.
(32:17):
FOR talent, i mean he's the one Who Saw jimmy
butler and figured figured out that maybe he Didn't know
jimmy would be A playoff jimmy so, to speak but
he knew he was a player and not. Everybody. Did
uh and he's done that consistently over. The. Years uh
he'll have the access to a great resources in terms
of talent Base. AT maryland i still say and have
(32:39):
said for decades that the what they CALL the dmv
is as good a place for basketball talent. As Anywhere,
uh so he's got that in his, back pocket. Backyard Whatever,
UH so i like, That uh i'll be interested to
see how, he uh how he adjusts to what is
(33:00):
the biggest stage he's. BEEN on, I mean marquette was
kind of a fishball thing because they have a very passionate,
fan base but it's. Not huge And Then virginia tech kind. Of,
Not Obviously virginia tech basketball the second Sport AT texas
A and m basketball might be third, behind baseball, not
sure but certainly. Not first now he's, that guy and
(33:25):
this is the first time he's been in. That circumstance
i'll be very interested to see how he deals, with it.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
For sure it'll be fascinating. TO watch i remember back
in the was it twenty seventeen coaching cycle or thinking back,
to that it, was like, All Right brad underwood was Hired,
At Illinois chris Holtman At, Ohio state Indiana Hires, archie
Miller and I'm thinking i'll probably Rank Him archie holtman And.
Then underwood and here we are eight, years later and
(33:52):
It's Clearly brad underwood was the top higher of. Those
threes it wasn't. Really close so that this goes to
show you how little we know about how these hires
are going to, work out and it's always funny to,
me that, you know trying to sign a grade to
a higher IT'S it's, I know i think you did
something like that after. THIS cycle i know it drives click,
(34:14):
but clicks but it's it's probably funny for you to
maybe go back and look at some of these over
the years of how you, graded them because it's so
hard to especially now with just how college, basketball is
with the portal and the uncertainty of everything the, player
movement it's really hard to know what. You're getting and
that was especially the case back in. TWENTY seventeen i
(34:35):
think it would be even more the case now in twenty.
Twenty five.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh definitely you really. Don't know, and Again as i've
discussed In that, minnesota example you don't always know what
is holding. People back is it, the circumstance is it
what is it the energy that they don't that they bring?
To it is it the staff that they? Put together
and now more, than ever it's, you know how how
(35:00):
are your resources compared? To others and then of course
you have to execute on. Those resources how you how
you spend. Those resources you have to make the right
choices and the right decisions and if you make the,
wrong ones then then you wind up, in trouble and
you can make the. Right ones uh and and they
(35:21):
can get hurt or whatever you get that can happen.
To you it there are lots of variables now that
didn't exist even ten years ago in terms of having
to try to find a coach who works. For you
that that and and some guys who may have really
been successful ten years ago may struggle in the current
(35:43):
era to make the same connections to uh to to
know who to bring in and who not to. Bring.
In there we saw that last YEAR with i. Used backcourt,
on paper it, seem, fine uh but then you saw it.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
In.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
PRACTICE uh i don't mean, necessarily practice but, in reality
and it just it. Didn't click it didn't work in
the way that it that it should have based on
what those players had done in. Other, Places, well mike
thanks for thanks for.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Taking time always good to talk, To you always good to.
See you always enjoy reading. Your Work follow mike you
can follow Him on. Twitter x whatever they're calling OUT,
That tsn mike read them At The. Sporting news, Thanks,
Again mike always appreciate.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
The time alex a pleasure and thank you for putting
up with the demo going. ON upstairs i appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Sounds good, thanks everybody as always for Listening to podcasts On.
The brink if you enjoy, the show please leave us
a rating and review Over On, apple podcasts leave us
a five star rating Over, on spotify and we'll be
back soon with another episode of podcast On. The brink
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
It's Tuesday, May thirteenth, and Mike de Coursi this Forting
News back with us for another episode of Podcasts on
the Brink. Before we get to Mic wanted to take
a moment remind you that this episode of Podcasts on
the Brink brought to you by our friends at Visit Bloomington.
Just because the basketball season is over doesn't mean the
(00:38):
fun stops. Spring is the perfect time to explore everything
Bloomington has to offer. Hike the trails at Griffy Lake
Nature Preserved, and refuel with local flavors on tap at
Upland Brewing Company. And don't forget about the many music
festivals coming to Bloomington this spring. Whether you're into outdoor activities, food,
or just relaxing in a vibrant college town, Visit Bloomington
(00:58):
has you covered. Start planning your spring getaway now at
visit Bloomington dot com. And before we get started, I
just wanted to warn everybody Mike maybe having a little
construction going on at his homestead in the background, So
if you hear any loud banging, rust assured Mike's okay.
Nobody's trying to break in and capture him. So how
you doing, Mike?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm doing great, Allix. It's great to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So been a while since we talked to you. I
feel like we've had this conversation before about what maybe
didn't work out with an IU basketball coach. I think
we had it with Tom Creane. Think we had it
with Archie Miller. I think we had it with Mike Woodson. Now,
you know, but instead of looking back, I want to
look forward. You know, we were talking a little bit
(01:44):
before I hit record. You mentioned you don't know Darren
Devrees all that well, but you have watched him coach,
you have, you know, you know his resume and all
that and what he's accomplished. Obviously at Drake had a
really nice run there had his one season. It was
Virginia where a lot of people, I think, including you
as one of the preeminent bracketologists on the web, or
(02:06):
kind of stunned that they didn't get in the NCAA tournament.
And you can talk about that a little bit if
you want, but just curious, big picture on the hire
for Indiana Darren Devrees, what you thought of it and
maybe what you look for as he gets ready to
get up for his first season on Bloyington.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, I think it starts with when you hire a
basketball coach, they have to be capable coach. They have
to be someone that understands how to win college basketball games.
That's the first place you want to start. And I
think that if you look over the post night history,
Indiana has batted close to a thousand in that department. Obviously,
(02:48):
Mike Davis hadn't coached yet when he got the job,
he hadn't been a head coach, I should say, so
we didn't know where he would be. I think his
record there and subsequently has proved that he can handle
that part of it. But the job at that stage,
with everything that went on, was a lot for him.
And then we had the Calvin thing and that didn't
(03:11):
work out. And then Tom Crane did some very good
things that Indiana with winning the two Big Tens, getting
that number one seed in in twenty thirteen, didn't have
much luck with the draw. It faced just the wrong
team in Syracuse and so everything has gone a little
bit wrong in other areas for Indiana. So that's where
(03:35):
really when you're a coach. Darren in this circumstance has
to focus on getting a roster together, and he's worked
really hard at that. You can see that in the
reports from people like yourself, not necessarily in the public pronouncements,
but in the reports that we know. I mean, you
(03:57):
look at the Wikipedia page for twenty five twenty six
i U basket men's basketball. There's a full roster. Uh
there's a there's a full breakdown of that of what
you're of what you're going to see next season. Uh
So we know what the roster will look like, and
he's done very well at putting together a capable roster,
(04:18):
not exceptionally tall roster, which is a little bit disconcerting.
If you you've got one true big man on the team,
some power forward types, but one true center. You got
to hope that that player stays healthy, uh and that
he is effective against Big ten competition. The Atlantic ten
to the Big ten is not that huge eleape. I mean,
(04:40):
we've seen uh players make the leap from from low
major to high major and succeed. Uh So to ask
Reed Bailey to make the lead from Atlantic ten to
it to Big ten is not that much of a
of an ask. Uh So we'll we'll see that. Uh I.
I think that up and down, he's looked at the
(05:03):
things that matter. When I look at these mid to
low major transfers to high major, the first thing I
look at for a big guy, it's rebounding and block shots.
Just want to see those two things because they translate.
Rebounding translates better than any other statistic from You could
take a guy like twenty years ago, twenty five years gosh,
(05:26):
it's not it's almost thirty years ago now. Malik Rose,
who I saw play at Trexel against Memphis when I
was covering the Tigers in the NCAA tournament. He was
an unbelievable rebounder in what that was then, I think
he was in the Colonial So what do those numbers mean? Well,
they threw him in the NBA and he got rebounds there,
So that stat translates. Block shots are generally going to
(05:49):
translate because it usually involves dynamism, timing the balls in
the air. You can go get it or you can't.
And then the other one for perimeter players, can you
shoot the ball. That's because that if you're open, you're
gonna make a shot. If you're a shooter, you're gonna
make a shot for the most part if they can
get you open. Now there are certainly other degrees can
(06:10):
you get yourself open and that those are the special players.
But if you're a wing player and the can and
they get you open, can you make the shot? So
that's an important component, and I think IU has a
lot of that covered the block shot area a little
bit concerning generally they have. I mean, that's a team
that has a chance to be among the best shooting
teams in college basketball next year based on the people
(06:32):
that they've brought in. So that all and and one
more element of the coaching aspect of it that I'll
talk about with coach Degrees is we saw what he
built at Drexel and it was amazing. Excuse me, not
at drex soil I drink. We saw what he built
there and it was amazing, very impressive. But I went
to I live in Pittsburgh. Now, I went last November
(06:56):
to West Virginia's game at pitt of I. We don't
get a lot of compelling high major games, especially in
non conference here in Pittsburgh. I wasn't going to miss that.
It's a rivalry game. So I go and I don't
remember the exact final score, but Pit one by twenty plus.
And I'm telling Alex, I'm not exaggerating when I say
(07:18):
they could have won by forty plus if they wonted.
It was an absolute annihilation a pit of West Virginia.
And I watched that game and I looked at that
and I said, how is West Virginia going to win
six games this year? And I mean that literally. I
thought that they would be fortunate to win six games.
That's how bad they looked that night. And within two
(07:40):
weeks they are going down to the Bahamas and competing
at the highest level of that tournament. And by the
end of the year they were an absolute They were
robbed by the committee. So in the lingo of sports,
they were robbed. They absolutely should have been an NCAA
tournament team. They should have been in. Yeah, they lost
their first conference tournament game and it was a bad
(08:02):
one to Colorado. Not a good team, but they're not
the only ones that ever did that. Their resumes said
they belonged, and they did not get in. So he
did an amazing coaching job last year and did all
of that with his son Tucker missing enough of the
year that he can be a Hoosier this year. So
(08:23):
that part of it, I think that he absolutely has covered.
He has won at the college level. He's won, He's
won against good teams. He's won under tough circumstances, like
the defeat of Indiana State in the Valley Championship game
in twenty twenty four. I mean, that's a game he
wasn't expected to win. Indiana State was widely expected to
(08:44):
win that game, and they went out on a neutral
floor and they won that game relatively handily. They put
a big number up, big margin, and excuse me, Indiana
State chipped away at it a little bit, but that
was Drexel, excuse me, Drake's game. So the part of
it that now becomes a challenge for him is the
(09:05):
public part. Iu has a unbelievably loyal and passionate following
among the very best in the sport. When you talk
about the big, the big brands in college basketball, Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Ucla,
(09:27):
Indiana's passion matches up with all of them, every one
of them. And so that's something that you have to
cope with as a coach. You have to manage it.
You have to figure and you can't just shut it
out because if you try to shut it out that
that's a defeat. You have to embrace it and use
it to your advantage. And those are the things that
(09:50):
he's going to have to figure out. He's never had
that before. He wasn't at West Virginia long enough, the
only big brand in the state really, and there's a
lot that you can take advantage, So everybody wasn't there
long enough to really get a feel for it. And
then of course at Drake they're the they're at best
the third, maybe the fourth brand in this in college
basketball in the state of Iowa. So he's not had
(10:14):
this before and he's gonna have to He's gonna have
to show that he can deal with it, uh and
that he can use it to his advantage rather than
have it be a disadvantage.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Going back to something you mentioned with the roster, it
kind of stuck out and it seemed like it's something
you had maybe a not concern, but questions on I've
watched Big Ten basketball, off You've you've watched it long
enough to know that there are certain teams in certain
styles of play where they're gonna get the ball inside
and they're just gonna go to work. I mean, Indiana
(10:44):
is one of those teams the last three or four
years under Mike Woodson, even going back to Archie Miller.
But you think about Michigan State last year. They were
a team that made a deep NCAA tournament run. You
looked at their three point volume, they didn't shoot a
lot of threes. They had big, rugged guys in the paint.
You think about the Purdue teams with Zach Edy and
all the big men they've had in the past. How
(11:06):
concerning is it. Maybe that's not the right word, but
Indiana's front court just right now in terms of being
able to go up against most teams in the Big Ten,
or do you think the league is maybe shifting away
with some of the coaching changes that we've seen in
recent years, from being as post dominant as it once was.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
I think there are teams that are, and we'll see that,
certainly with Purdue. Trey Kaufman. Wren's low post ability, his
dexterity in the low post matches up with any player
in college basketball, and probably any player in college basketball
just in terms of the ability to make moves and
to score from different areas. Matches up with probably anybody
(11:44):
in the last decade. I mean, he's not seven to
four like Zach was, but his ability to catch it
low and disarm the defense is elite. But that's one
player and one team. I don't think that the league
is as as big dependent as it has been. I mean,
you look at Nate Biddle and I don't know if
(12:04):
we're gonna I expect we'll see him back at Oregon
this this next season or not positive yet, I don't think.
But Nate's a guy who is as dangerous from the
perimeter as he is inside. So I don't think you
have to worry about that quite as much. Particular games, Yes,
you're gonna have to figure out how do you guard Trey.
(12:27):
You have to uh to some extent. And I mean
there have been games where when Zach was big a
couple of years ago, where Michigan State would just play
him straight up and make sure nobody else did anything.
So that that's a choice, and he may get thirty
thirty five on you, but you could still win the
(12:47):
game by shutting everybody else down. So I'm more concerned
in terms of their current front court about just the
idea that you don't have a secondary an you're at center,
so to speak. You your secondary answer is we're small
and that you can win in the league not being huge.
(13:10):
I mean, Purdue was tremendously successful last year. They started
six' eight six.' eight so it's just that, you like
you'd rather be six ten, six ten and if you
can be that without sacrificing, ball, handling, shooting, skill dynamism,
et cetera you'd rather be, six ten. Six ten but.
(13:32):
That's that when you're looking at a team on paper
and you see only one with double digits in the
right hand column to the to the right of, the
dash unless that first number is, a seven it's a little.
Bit concerning what about just the overall?
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Talent LEVEL and i hate to kind of look at it,
like that but obviously the thing we all look at
is where did this guy? Come, from well that maybe
doesn't matter as much now in the, portal ERA where
i think a lot of coaches if you give them
their choice of would you rather have a freshman that's
ranked a hundredth in the country or would you Rather Have,
hayton Connorway The sun belt player Of the year last
(14:11):
year that led his team TO The ncaa tournament and
Played against kentucky in the tournament and played against other high.
Major teams they'd much rather have that than a freshman.
That's unproven but you do look down this roster and, you,
Say Well North. Florida elon, YOU know i don't have
the whole roster in front. Of me but it's a
lot of schools that obviously are a lower level of.
(14:34):
College basketball do you think that matters? At all or
is it more about the coaching and putting the pieces
together and you can compete with those guys At the big.
TEN level, i.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Mean we have seen players that went from low major
to First Team. ALL american i mean that has happened
in the last couple. Of years it's happened on. MULTIPLE occasions,
I mean i'm not sure at this point whether I
own a qualifies as. MID major i Guess when rick,
(15:03):
was coaching it probably Did. Because rick but we've seen
guys that went from that level to First Team, all
america AND so I don't you can't look at the
school and say that. Can't happen it really comes down
(15:23):
to the. Individual player how Good Is, Lamar wilkerson how Good.
Is connorway how Good Is. Josh harris you really aren't
sure until you get them on the floor and you.
See them and those guys have all looked at film
(15:44):
and they're investing in, a sense not their, own money
but they're investing their resources in players that they think
can make a difference on. Their team and and they
and the other part of it is that in some
of them, those cases they beat out other significant programs
And BEAT kentucky i Believe. For wilkerson so that's those guys.
(16:09):
As well we're believing in that player's ability to. PROJECT
forward i Think ultimately indiana is going to want to
build a multi layered program the Way that yukon has. The,
way really if you look at the final four, LAST
(16:30):
year i did, the numbers it was close to sixty percent.
Homegrown players close To sixty it wasn't quite it was
like fifty nine points something. Homegrown players so you'd want
to have a mix. Of that but when you're coming
in the, first year as was, the case, especially now
when if you come in the, first year more often,
(16:53):
than not you're going to lose a massive portion of.
Your roster they're either they may be scheduled to lead
eve or they may decide that you're not right. For
them you came to play for. This guy you have
an opportunity to go. Somewhere else you might as well go.
Somewhere else so that happens now with greater regularity than it.
(17:16):
Ever did so you have. To build if you want
to build a, winner quickly this is the way to.
Do it but if you want to build a championship
level program, right now the history still says you. Want
both you want a mix of high school Guys, and
(17:38):
indiana as, we know has been highly productive in. That
sense you're Bringing In. Trent sisily i'm glad he's staying with.
His commitment i'm Glad that indiana wants him to stay
with his COMMITMENT because i think, over time those that
core guys like that will make you great and then.
(17:59):
YOU implement i think that twenty three and Twenty four
yukon teams are the best example to follow for the
teams that have the option that want to build. Towards
championships you build with guys That Like, steph castle who's an,
elite recruit and we certainly Seen in indiana get guys
(18:20):
like that in. The past you want to get guys,
Like that but you also want to get Guys Like,
jordan hawkins who is a thirty to fifty guy who,
comes in he continues to develop and eventually becomes a lottery.
Level pick you want both of those guys in, your
program and then you want to mix. Into it you
(18:43):
want to mix into it Guys Like, tristan newton who
they needed a. Point guard They thought tristan could make.
The transition it took him four months to, get there
but he got there in time to win the twenty
three championship and then Become An all american. TWENTY four.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I know you talk to a lot of coaches around.
The country i'm Curious and i've seen people write this
or say, this THAT and i don't know how true,
this is but some some schools are just exclusively recruiting,
the portal not as focused on high. School recruiting do
you think that's the case with? Some programs and how
how are programs moving like moving forward prioritizing high school
(19:23):
recruiting versus.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Portal, RECRUITING yeah i do think that there are people
out there doing that that are ignoring, the PORTAL AND
i i mean ignoring. High school she's be ignoring the
high school guys and and focusing strictly on, the Portals
and i'm not positive that that's the way. To go
we have yet to see a team that was almost
(19:48):
exclusively portal based win. The championship that has not. Happened
yet we haven't seen a team that was majority portal win.
A championship florida is probably the most portal champion, we've
HAD and i know we haven't had this circumstance for
a long, time Yet but florida had a very important
(20:08):
core of players that they brought in that how would
be an example of that who is developing into a
terrific PLAYER and i think is going to have a
great twenty five. Twenty six condon. Is another those guys.
Were essential they don't win the championship without. Those, guys
now their starting perimeter was all. Portal guys most of
(20:32):
them were multi year, portal guys which is a little
bit different than the one year. Constant role but they
certainly wouldn't have won It Without. Elijah martin he was
an essential player. For them but for the, most part
they had. Some Continuity, evan mayakawa who does a great
(20:53):
job with College basketball analytics continues to emphasize roster continuity
as an important component of championship. Level success it was
no surprise on using that parameter or the homegrown PARAMETER
that i talked about once we got To the, final
Four that kentucky stalled out at the sweet. Sixteen level
(21:18):
i'm Not Blaming mark pope for what, he did Just
as i'm Not Blaming darren devrees for what he's. DOING
now i think it's smart in, That circumstance but you
want to come behind that with a group of high
school prospects that can be. Core players and then if
you can get one a five star guy to add,
(21:40):
in sure or multiple, five stars you Want to but
those four, star guys those thirty, to seventy those are
the core guys that can really build you toward championship.
Level success it's hard to do it when you're constantly
turning it over and having to constantly be out there in.
The mix and now some of the programs that are
(22:02):
doing that whole portal concept where they're just. They're churning
they're going to have some, down, years uh but they're
not they are seeking to be. Highly successful they're not,
necessarily seeking uh or expecting to. WIN championships i just
want to be in the in the mix because that's
(22:22):
what their programs have been and that and and if
they're in, the mix like if they're at the toward
the toward the top of. Their, league uh if they're
getting TO the ncaa tournament on a regular basis and
success at a lot, of schools but there are other
schools where final fours and championships are not. Necessarily expected,
(22:43):
but uh it's pretty it's pretty regular in their histories
that they. Get there, and uh if you're if you
want to, DO that i just Think that i'm a
big believer in what the patterns of. History show and
right now it still says you want to have core
(23:03):
players who understand, your values who can Introduce An. Elijah
martin this is the way we do Things. At florida
you don't want to be the you want teams to
be somewhat. Self, coached yeah you got to be the
one that says, who plays and you got to be
the one that comes up with the, game plans and
you got to be the one that pushes the ex's
and those around. The whiteboard but when when you give
(23:26):
a lesson in. A drill you don't want to have
to be the one that enforces every aspect. Of it
you want there to be peer peer responsibility and peer
pressure to get it right and then have that apply
eventually to how you want.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
To, PLAY yeah i think looking Back on woodson's Time,
IN indiana i think one of the things that maybe
hasn't talked about as much is the lack of development
of the guys that he got that were kind of
ranked in that, you know fifty to one. Fifty range
Look At jakai newton obviously had injury but never really.
Produced Anything gabe cups is another guy who was around
(24:04):
a top, one hundred top one. Fifty player obviously played
a lot as, a freshman but then was hurt, last
season didn't contribute. To Much caleb banks was a guy
that was around for a couple of years and we
saw him Go to tulane last year and, break out
but his first Two years indiana wasn't really able to
get much out. Of HIM And cj gun's another one
that so there's four guys that can just point to
you right off the top, is like, you know how
(24:26):
much Different does indiana look last year if one or
two of those guys had stepped into bigger roles and
developed into something that they could, have used but in
all four of them now obviously gone from. The PROGRAM
but i do think that's interesting to look at and
contrast with the Program, like, purdue who's, you know dabbling
a little bit in. The portal but for the, Most
(24:46):
Part matt painter's finding guys that maybe are a little
bit undervalued that he. Brings in whether It's A kaufman
wren not, being undervalued but he got him to red
shirt for. A year now he's developed into An all
big ten. Type player and then, last year a guy Like,
se COX who i don't think the high majors were
knocking on his door to get him, To commit purdue,
Gets him he comes in plays a. Big Role braden
(25:08):
smith kind of the, same thing was a guy that
a ton Of probably big ten programs could have been,
in On but purdue. Got him and the list. Goes
ON so i do think you make a great point
just being able to identify, those players bring them into,
your program, retain them and develop them over time really
puts you in a much better position to be competitive
(25:29):
in a year in year.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Out, BASIS yeah i think you can even Alex Use,
mackenzie imbaco who was a, five star as an example
of a player who didn't really develop and BLOSSOM at
iu in his. TWO years, i mean we saw him
as a sophomore have a very inconsistent season and he
should have had a great season based on the fact
that he was a five star who obviously, is talented
(25:52):
who became a sophomore that should be a breakout season in,
the making and it. Didn't happen and now he's at
the com and he's showing. Nice things there's some good
buzz about, him there so we know that the we
thought that the ability, Was there we saw enough flashes
to note that the ability, was there but the consistent
(26:15):
performance was. Not THERE and i THINK that i think
that is another example of where OF where i You
Under mike whitson didn't totally develop the players and didn't
totally utilize the ability of the players that were in
his program to their.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
GREATEST effect i wanted to ask you before we before we,
wrap up just about the other coaching hires That The
big ten had. This Offseason buzz williams Going, to Maryland,
Which Obviously kevin willard moves on from, that situation which
was really kind of a weird one to. Track there
as the end of the season, Went on maryland was
playing its, best basketball advancing in, the tournament and it
seemed like kind of a cloud was hanging over with that.
(26:56):
Whole situation so They Get, buzz williams who. You know
it Seems like buzz likes to go to a place
for what four or, five years and then jump somewhere
else after he's worn out as welcome a, little Bit
but i'm pretty confident that He'll have maryland playing. Winning
Basketball nico medved goes back to his Alma. Moderate minnesota
And then, ben McCollum a name that a lot of
people thought maybe was a potential Guy that indiana would
(27:20):
target Going. To iowa i'm just curious for your thoughts
on those three hires and maybe what you think of each.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Of, Them well i'll Start, with NICO because i think
that that was a. TERRIFIC higher i didn't Love That
ben johnson was. LET go i Thought that ben did
some really. GOOD things, i mean you think about Guys Like,
pharrell payne who we saw deep IN the. Ncaa tournament
if they had had the resources that were available to
(27:46):
some other teams In The, big ten would they have
been able To, keep pharrell would they have been able To?
Keep hawkins and if they did keep those guys and they,
didn't succeed then that would. Be different but they weren't
able to and they wound up with a. Deficient ROSTER
and i thought That they you saw some of the
games that they either won or were right there. AND
(28:07):
beating i believe They beat michigan at home if my memory,
serves now and they put They Pushed ohio state INTO.
DOUBLE ot I thought I, liked BEN but. I can't
i can't help but Admit That nico medford is a.
SIGNIFICANT upgrade, I mean nico has a tremendous, track record,
(28:29):
great resume has shown the ability to compete IN The
Nc double a's a. TRUE winner i don't know what
the resource circumstance will be like for. Him THERE if
i presume he would wouldn't have taken a job if
he didn't believe that it would be enough sufficient for
(28:52):
him to be competitive in one of the best leagues in.
College basketball he's not. Going there he's not trading in
success to go somewhere and not succeed for reasons that
are beyond. HIS control i THINK that i think that
they'll probably do what they need to do there for
him to. Be Successful and minnesota is an underrated basketball
(29:15):
state in terms of, producing talent so we'll see whether
he's able to maybe protect. THE borders I thought ben
did an okay job, at that but maybe even they
can even. Do BETTER so i like the. HIRE there
I obviously iowa McCollum is a, terrific coach not FOUR
time i think national champion AT the d two level
(29:39):
and did a great Job. With drake they were fantastic.
This year but it's a significant change in style and
philosophy from what was the case under fran McCaffrey for basically.
Fifteen years it's a. Fascinating change one of the things
(30:00):
that it struck me about about this whole Process was
grant McCaslin when he Was At north texas played a very,
controlled style. Hyper control maybe not Quite the, drake extreme
but pretty, hyper control and they were they were. VERY effective,
(30:22):
I mean purdue remembers twenty twenty one what they were able.
To DO and I then i see him Go To,
texas tech and now they get guys who can make
shots and drive and play above the rim and all.
That stuff and now all of, a sudden they're, you
know they're a much more. Dynamic team they weren't not
like they were playing in, the nineties but they were
(30:43):
a much more dynamic Team under Grant At texas tech
than they had Been At. North texas so possibly now
with the ability that will be Available to Ben, AT iowa,
i mean we've seen some tremendous players Go through Iowa
in france, time there maybe he loosens up at least a.
(31:04):
Little bit it doesn't have to necessarily be we're going
to rank in the three sixties in tempo. Every year
maybe it doesn't have to. Be that we'll see. What
HAPPENS but i like the higher. Very much And. Then
buzz I've known buzz for gosh twenty almost twenty. Years
now he's. CERTAINLY different i think he'll. He'll be he's
(31:29):
replacing a, Coach who kevin is very personal on a,
one personable on a one on. One basis if you,
know him you, like him is not as dynamic a
personality if you don't. Know, Him Buzz so buzz doesn't
have to replace someone That Like mark pope going in
To REPLACE. JOHN caliperi, I mean john's a. Big personality
(31:54):
mark showed that he is a very interesting personality as
well a. Captivating personality that part wasn't. A problem buzz
doesn't have to worry. About that he doesn't have to
worry about a program that was that was had an
overwhelming personality. To it he can go in. And coach
he's got to. Get, guys uh. He's done he's done
that everywhere. He's Been. Virginia tech marquette is a great eye.
(32:17):
FOR talent, i mean he's the one Who Saw jimmy
butler and figured figured out that maybe he Didn't know
jimmy would be A playoff jimmy so, to speak but
he knew he was a player and not. Everybody. Did
uh and he's done that consistently over. The. Years uh
he'll have the access to a great resources in terms
of talent Base. AT maryland i still say and have
(32:39):
said for decades that the what they CALL the dmv
is as good a place for basketball talent. As Anywhere,
uh so he's got that in his, back pocket. Backyard Whatever,
UH so i like, That uh i'll be interested to
see how, he uh how he adjusts to what is
(33:00):
the biggest stage he's. BEEN on, I mean marquette was
kind of a fishball thing because they have a very passionate,
fan base but it's. Not huge And Then virginia tech kind. Of,
Not Obviously virginia tech basketball the second Sport AT texas
A and m basketball might be third, behind baseball, not
sure but certainly. Not first now he's, that guy and
(33:25):
this is the first time he's been in. That circumstance
i'll be very interested to see how he deals, with it.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
For sure it'll be fascinating. TO watch i remember back
in the was it twenty seventeen coaching cycle or thinking back,
to that it, was like, All Right brad underwood was Hired,
At Illinois chris Holtman At, Ohio state Indiana Hires, archie
Miller and I'm thinking i'll probably Rank Him archie holtman And.
Then underwood and here we are eight, years later and
(33:52):
It's Clearly brad underwood was the top higher of. Those
threes it wasn't. Really close so that this goes to
show you how little we know about how these hires
are going to, work out and it's always funny to,
me that, you know trying to sign a grade to
a higher IT'S it's, I know i think you did
something like that after. THIS cycle i know it drives click,
(34:14):
but clicks but it's it's probably funny for you to
maybe go back and look at some of these over
the years of how you, graded them because it's so
hard to especially now with just how college, basketball is
with the portal and the uncertainty of everything the, player
movement it's really hard to know what. You're getting and
that was especially the case back in. TWENTY seventeen i
(34:35):
think it would be even more the case now in twenty.
Twenty five.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh definitely you really. Don't know, and Again as i've
discussed In that, minnesota example you don't always know what
is holding. People back is it, the circumstance is it
what is it the energy that they don't that they bring?
To it is it the staff that they? Put together
and now more, than ever it's, you know how how
(35:00):
are your resources compared? To others and then of course
you have to execute on. Those resources how you how
you spend. Those resources you have to make the right
choices and the right decisions and if you make the,
wrong ones then then you wind up, in trouble and
you can make the. Right ones uh and and they
(35:21):
can get hurt or whatever you get that can happen.
To you it there are lots of variables now that
didn't exist even ten years ago in terms of having
to try to find a coach who works. For you
that that and and some guys who may have really
been successful ten years ago may struggle in the current
(35:43):
era to make the same connections to uh to to
know who to bring in and who not to. Bring.
In there we saw that last YEAR with i. Used backcourt,
on paper it, seem, fine uh but then you saw it.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
In.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
PRACTICE uh i don't mean, necessarily practice but, in reality
and it just it. Didn't click it didn't work in
the way that it that it should have based on
what those players had done in. Other, Places, well mike
thanks for thanks for.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Taking time always good to talk, To you always good to.
See you always enjoy reading. Your Work follow mike you
can follow Him on. Twitter x whatever they're calling OUT,
That tsn mike read them At The. Sporting news, Thanks,
Again mike always appreciate.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
The time alex a pleasure and thank you for putting
up with the demo going. ON upstairs i appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Sounds good, thanks everybody as always for Listening to podcasts On.
The brink if you enjoy, the show please leave us
a rating and review Over On, apple podcasts leave us
a five star rating Over, on spotify and we'll be
back soon with another episode of podcast On. The brink
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