POTB 529: Early impressions of the DeVries era with Scott Caulfield

On this episode, Alex Bozich is joined by Scott Caulfield of CrimsonCast to discuss early impressions of the Darian DeVries era in Bloomington along with several other topics.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
It's Friday, May twenty third, big sports weekend coming up
in the state of Indiana. No better man to help
us talk about that and also some Indiana basketball talk.
Scott Caulfield of Crimson Cast is back on this week's

(00:37):
episode of podcast on the Brink. Before we get to
Scott wanted to take a quick moment remind you that
this episode of Podcasts on the Brink brought to you
of our friends at Visit Bloomington. Just because basketball season
is over doesn't mean the fun stops. Spring is the
perfect time to explore everything Bloomington has to offer. Hike
the trails at Griffy Lake Nature Preserve, then refuel with
local flavors on tap it Up in Brewing Company, and

(00:58):
don't forget about the many music festivals coming to Bloomington
this spring. Whether you're in the outdoor adventures, food, or
just relaxing in a vibrant college town, Visit Bloomington's got
you covered. Start planning your spring getaway now at visit
Bloomington dot com. Scott this weekend, Bloomington's is not really
the place to be. It's Indianapolis. We've got believe I

(01:18):
saw the five hundred What gets underway Sunday afternoon, twelve
forty five, I believe.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Twelve forty five. Great first off, Alex, Great to talk
to you. Happy to be on Yeah, twelve forty five
Green Flight. I mean, but the great thing is you
can be in Bloomington because the race is now the
blackout is lifted. If you're in Bloomington, you can watch
it on Fox. Go then go to like you know,
Lake Lemon or Lake Monroe, go hang out a little
bit and then go check out the pacers that night
and you good to go.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Let me ask you something about the blackout because I've
always read, you know, someone that doesn't live up there
not really been affected by that. How how big of
a deal is that? Is that change? And what do
you know about like why that finally was lifted?

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Well, it was lifted this year because they sold all
the grandstand seats. I mean, you could do an entire
podcast on this, and I know a lot of it,
but you know, it goes back to the race was
always on radio, and it's up to kind of ims
to say when they've sold all of the seats and
that whether they also count infield seats or not is

(02:21):
up for debate, and I you know, what I've always
heard is that it was partially the The TV broadcast
partners at the time was ABC for years, and then
the IMS would sell the radio rights, and they sold
them under the idea of like, hey, we're never gonna
You're never gonna be on TV. So the radio rights
are worth a lot more than they should be in
the Indianapolis market. And then in twenty sixteen, the one

(02:41):
hundredth running of the race, they sold out the entire
thing and they lifted the blackout because there was even
questions if IMS would ever even say if they ever
sold everything, because it's you know, Kurk Cabin of the
Indie Star. This is you know, ten fifteen years ago,
actually drove around the track and counted all the seats.
Because that's the only real indication we have. IMS doesn't
really publish, you assembly halls, what seventeen thousand, five hundred

(03:04):
and seventy one or whatever. I even publish what the
full seating capacity of IMS is. It's always approximately this,
so it's kind of up to their discretion. I So
the short answer is they sold all the seats and
that's contractually how they do it. You know, I do
wonder it's a first year the race is going to
be on Fox, and you know you're getting to a

(03:26):
point where you know, the race was on NBC. It
used to be on Peacock. They started to do geo fencing.
But people can use VPNs to get around it, Like
I do wonder if they've just kind of been like, look,
we're we need to get our arms around this thing.
It's not going to change, and this is going to
help give Fox a real boost in numbers, because what's
silly about it? It made sense fifteen twenty years ago. But
you know, nobody wants to listen to it on the

(03:47):
radio like maybe seventies and eighties do.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
You know, people want to go to the race, but
you know you're gonna get a huge TV number because
most of your race fans are in the Indianapolis area.
The last thing I'll say that IMS has done a
good job on this. I'm sure people are like we
just skipped, like put a timestamp talk I you basketball
stop talking racing. The thing that IMS has done A
and Penske and and they've done a really good job
is it's a phenomenal in person event. I mean that is,

(04:14):
even though I can watch it on TV, I want
to go in person because I want to see the flyover,
I want to hear taps, I want to be there
for the start of the race. You cannot replicate that
on TV. And they've done a really good job of
kind of sprucing it up, making it an even bigger
in person event, and I think they're starting to understand, like, look,
we can have our cake and eat it too. We
can get the big TV number and it's not going

(04:35):
to draw away because we've built this as a phenomenal
in person live event and the TV broadcast really only accentuates.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Damn, that is cool. I want to be there.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, so you're but you're doing the you're doing both right,
So you're doing the five hundred. Then you're doing Game
two of the Pacers next, which that series now has,
you know, just based on how Game one plan out,
And obviously by some the time some people listen to
this game too will have already happened, because it's going
to happen Friday night. But I just think the juice

(05:07):
for that series has gone up to another level. Based
on what we saw the other night.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah, so I will be doing the double I have.
I've been going to the five hundred. I started going
with my dad. I mean, everyone has a story, like
eighty five. I started going with my dad. We went
for twelve years together. When I moved back to Indianapolis
and nine my wife and I started going. So I'm
pushing twenty eight twenty nine races now, but we've been
going every year since O nine. I've had Pacers tickets
for the last ten or twelve years. I didn't have

(05:34):
them in thirteen, I think was the last time they
had a double. So this time I was kind of debating.
But my son loves going to games. He was like
a little salty, he's not going to the five hundred.
So yeah, it's gonna be a long day, a lot
of expresso shots, a lot of coffee. But you know,
everyone has their own way of doing it. Like I
know how to get in and out of the track
and get home. So my plan is I'm actually gonna

(05:55):
drive from Ims to Westfield, come home, take a quick shower,
grab my son, and then go down and in a
weird way, that actually might be better than me trying
to just get across town. Even though it's only three
or four miles from the track to Gamebridge. That traffic
is going to be wild. I don't know what the
pattern is going to be, so it should be fun.
But yeah, the Pacers Knicks series, that Game one went

(06:16):
to another level. It's Game three is gonna be electric
because you're either looking at a one to one series
or you're looking at, you know, the Pacers possibly trying
to go three to zero and just close the Knicks out.
It'll be great. But the Pacers have been on an
absolute heater. They've had a great playoff run. But they've
been fun to watch all year. I mean, this is
such a fun team to watch. They move the basketball

(06:37):
around that they're really playing different than a lot of
other people in the NBA. They've built their team differently,
and you're seeing Halliburton was already a good player, but
he's starting It's so weird. I've been galing my co hosts.
We've been talking a lot about this off off air.
Just start calling each other and talking Pacer stuff. There's
a lot of similarities between the nineties and this team.

(06:59):
With the Pacer. In the nineties, you had a Pacers
team that didn't play the kind of the same style
that the NBA at large media didn't quite know how
to handle them. And you had Reggie Miller who was
just a very singularly different and unique star who wasn't
the prototypical gets you twenty eight every single night. He
was much more of a high and low it could
come in the moment and in a weird way. I mean,

(07:20):
they're different, but they're also similar, and that Halliburton is
kind of getting into that same mold where he's not
the prototypical you know, I'm gonna get you twenty eight
and twelve every night, but damn man, when the lights
are bright, he wants the stage and he's showing he
can handle it. And that's something that really resonates with
Indiana fans who grew up with Reggie Miller.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, I know, not everyone that listens to this podcast
as an NBA person, And there's sometimes I feel like
college basketball fans will talk about the NBA and a
negative light there's no defense play and all these different
things that just simply really aren't true. But you know,
if you haven't had a chance to watch his Pacers team,
definitely this series if you enjoy good basketball and the

(08:00):
Knicks are you know, for a long time, I remember
growing up just despising the Knicks, not liking the Knicks.
This Knicks team is actually pretty likable. They've got a
lot of guys on there that are easy to root
for and watch. Obviously Pacers fans don't want to hear that,
but guys like Jalen Brunson, ogn and Obi and those
guys are a lot of fun to watch. I just
think it's a terrific series for basketball, and what a

(08:21):
what a great day Sunday is going to be in
the state of indian and Indianapolis, so looking forward to that.
We're obviously here to talk basketball.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
It's an IU matchup. You have o g versus Thomas Bryant,
who both.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Been playing minutes, but Thomas Bryant is getting some important
minutes with the Pacers.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
He's he's nice.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Nice little comeback for Thomas too, after kind of being
buried on the bench there on Denver's roster a couple
of years ago when they won the title, and then
kind of working his way back up, getting the getting
traded from Miami up to Indianapolis, and they they obviously
had a need for him, and he's he's done a
great job I think in the limited minutes and he's
gotten and yeah, you're right, it's it's a fun it's
a fun series. Glad to see both at least one

(08:59):
of those guys is going to go to the exactly
from what IU perspective, you went either way. But with
IU basketball, you know, I was talking before we hit record.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
It was weird.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
It was either the day of or the day before
the Woodson's announcement, whatever you want to call it, came
out that that we had you on the podcast. So
a lot's changed since then. And one reason I just
wanted to have you on is because you know, you
and Galen have done Crimson Cast for so long and
I love the podcast and I love hearing your opinions,
and you know, for those that don't listen to Crimson Casts,

(09:28):
you should make that a regular part of your podcast rotation.
But Scott, it's been you know, a little over two
months since de Freeze has hired, more than three months
since you've been on this on the show. I'm just curious,
like from your perspective, because you know, you look at
this a little bit of a different lens than I
do more from a fan perspective. What's uh, what are

(09:51):
your just general thoughts on on how maybe briefly, how
the Woodson era ended and now where this program is
a couple of months it ended of Reese's tenure.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
So we'll start with the end of the Woodson era.
You know it. It didn't go well. Yeah, go well, Alex,
you know it. I tried to be optimistic. As I'm
getting older, I try really hard with these coaching changes,
which unfortunately are happening a little bit too frequently. I
try and go into each one and be positive because

(10:25):
whether I like it or not, like this is going
to be the coach of my college basketball team, so
let's at least go into it with a positive attitude.
And so I went into the Woods and thing, you know,
I was a little bit perplexed because I got that
was an interesting hire, like didn't seem like you know,
but okay, we finally did it. You know, we finally
went We hired a former player, we hired somebody in
the family, we hired an NBA guy, And then you

(10:48):
could start to be like, all right, well this guy
knows basketball and all of these things. And then you know,
he was able to get Trace Jackson Davis to stay.
You know, he got Jalen hoo Chaffino, he got a
really good team there. In his second year, he had
some nice success against Purdue and Painter. So it's not
all bad, but a lot of the things that we're
concerning about bringing an NBA guy into college you saw

(11:12):
pop up over and over and over again. And this
isn't just a Woods and thing. It's just you've seen
it across college basketball. NBA only coaches have a really
hard time. Like you know, Patino and Cali Pari are
not not fair comps because they're college guys. Guys who
just are NBA guys coming to college like an Avery
Johnson also in his alma mater, don't normally work well.

(11:32):
And it's because you know, sometimes I think NBA guys
have a lower view of what college is. And you know,
going to a lot of Pacers games, it's interesting watching
Rick Carlisle coach because you haven't been to a lot
of NBA games. Like, you know, they'll call a time
out of three and a half minutes in the time out,
Carlisle will go to in this very all NBA teams

(11:53):
do this. He'll go talk to his assistants for like
two and a half minutes. It's like it's not a
time out, like he's just talking to his assistants. They're
going through stuff. He'll go in the huddle for like
eighteen to twenty seconds and then the team will break
and be done because you realize it again, I'm not
in the huddle, but he's not going to you know,
Halliburton or Aaron Nesmith saying hey man, you got to
make sure and you know, keep the ball down on
the drive, and like it's real, like, hey man, don't

(12:14):
forget Brunson likes to go left when he's getting slip screen,
Like it is specific things and everything else is like
you figure it out and you realize, like that doesn't
work in college because college kids need to be told
the things like hey man, don't forget you can't run
on the inbounds and like we only have four seconds
and you've got to make it a little more granular.
So I think those were concerns that led up. But Alex,

(12:36):
the thing that and I'm just gonna be frank here
and maybe annoy people a little bit. The thing that
really bothered me as I now reflect more on the
wood scenario. Is part of the reason you bring a
former player back into the you know, somebody from the family,
is that they theoretically should understand Indiana basketball. They should
understand what it means, they should understand how you know

(12:57):
important the fans are, the students, assembly hall, handy stripe,
all the stuff that we talk ad nauseum about should
matter to them, and by the end it felt like
it didn't matter like that. That's the part that is
wild to me is if Woodson hadn't have played, we'd
all be like, Man, this guy just doesn't understand Indiana basketball.
You can't you can't talk about other teams this way.

(13:19):
You can't not go to the Indiana State title game.
You can't treat Indiana high school coach like this. You
can't basically give the heisman, you know, tell Phish, I'm
not doing your interviews. Like That's the thing that really
pissed me offm I just be honest, Like when when
he after our podcast he got announced that he was
stepping down and then he just stopped doing media availability,
stop doing Don Fisher.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Don Fisher, well, he he he hadn't been doing media
availability most of the season because I kept track of it.
There was after Atlantis happened, he did media availability I
think after one or two before before he did after games,
but before games he did one or two the entire
rest of the season after Atlantis.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Right, and you you you do that?

Speaker 2 (14:03):
I mean I would say this all the time, like,
imagine if bollow just stopped, like if a player did that,
which like I'm not doing interviews anymore. We'd beat up
our grills about this with nil and like what are
these kids turning into as a professional who should understand
what it is?

Speaker 3 (14:18):
And again it's not like Fish is gonna ask you
hard questions.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
So to me, that was really disappointing because it felt
like and then you hear all of the you know,
the rumors and stories about you know, misrecruiting visits and
just you know, being the things that were being said
that seem very arrogant about how he handled the job,
and it just was like, man, this was does this
guy understand how important this program is? And I'm sure

(14:40):
he does, like I'm not saying he doesn't, but it's
just his actions didn't meet what I was expecting from
the start of what I would get from a former
player coming in and to me that along with not
making the tournament and the losses, that's the most disappointing
part is it's like, damn, I could have been okay
losing if it felt like this guy really cared as

(15:01):
much as the fans do. But it all I can
say is it didn't feel that way, And if he
did feel as much for the university, he did a
really poor job of showing in his actions.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
So the debris era, that was kind of the second
part of my question. What what are you early thoughts
on just everything that's happened. Obviously don't want to get
into the nuts and bolts of trying to break down
ten players and what the roster are gonna look like
because that's we've done that. And also, you know, it's
easy to kind of project what this team's actually gonna

(15:34):
be until we actually see some games next season. It's
really hard to know what to expect. But I'm just
kind of curious watching from your vantage point, what you've
thought of the approach so far, and maybe some general
thoughts on what they've been able to assemble.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, it's funny. Me and some buddies during the Woodston cycle,
we did a bet. We did like a snake draft
of who we thought the coach would be, and we
went through five rounds and nobody picked Woodson, and we
were like, that's looking back, that's curious. So this time,
of course, we ran it back that the Joe. I
have a couple of friends who are also not IU
fans who kind of do it to troll me, and

(16:08):
so they were like, we should make this a keeper
league because you're gonna do it every four years. I'm like,
all right, fine, So we did a keeper league this year.
We went we went five rounds again, and nobody picked
Debris this time, so hopefully it's not a similar result.
I was surprised in that it was just a name.
You know, Galen and I were doing kind of four
coach deep dives on our podcast every week because we knew,

(16:32):
you know, it was like February when we got the announcement.
We knew we'd have a ton of time, just kind
of take our time. We never got to Debris, which
may have been a good thing that we don't have
on tape our thoughts ahead of time. So I was initially,
I think, like everybody else, just you know, there's a
part of you. It's like, man, I want the name,
like I want the name that I've heard of that
it's like, Wow, it's a big, splashy hire. But if

(16:54):
you look through college basketball, a lot of the programs
that are doing well, they don't have those big, splashy hires.
It's really assistants who move up. Like you know, Todd
Golden with Florida. It's like that wasn't and that didn't
blow the doors off. That wasn't a name anybody had
heard of. You know, NATO's with the Alabama. Those aren't names.
But at the time you're like, oh my god, that's
that's huge. So I was, but very slowly, I've I've

(17:16):
come to be very intrigued and cautiously optimistic with the
higher And I was telling you before we started, like
I'm just cautiously optimistic because I've just been through this
too many times where Archie seemed like it was going
to work and it didn't. I probably talked myself into
Woods and that obviously didn't work. You know, at at

(17:36):
certain points in the creen era, I was like, this
is the right guy, this is the one who's going
to take us there, and then it it kind of
went sideways very quickly, so my guard is up. It's
it's a joke I used in other facets of life too.
It's like, it's not it's not your fault. It's like
previous girlfriends have burned me. It's not your fault. I'm
happily married twenty five years, no other girlfriends. But it's
like I would tell it's a degree. It's like, it's

(17:57):
nothing he's done. It's just I've been burned enough being
so optimistic that I'm cautiously optimistic. But thus far, you know,
everything he's done. What I like about is it seems
to be with a plan. It seems to be with purpose,
and he's doing little things that kind of you know,
throw catnip to IU fans, you know, the god the
transfer we got who's looking at Kentucky. And then he

(18:20):
goes on mar Thank you Wilkerson. He goes on field
of sixty eight and he's like, oh, yeah, you know,
Devrie has just gotten a plane and came here the
next day and signed me.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
It's like yes, like give me way more of that.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Like and you know, he's talking to high school coaches
and I've I've done some work with the Fair Shake
Radio down in southern Indiana. They do a lot like
high school basketball. They are saying, you know, they're starting
to be some inroads with high school basketball coaches and
like he's starting to do what you need to do
around the state of Indiana is to build that back up.
So I've been very intrigued by that, and I think

(18:54):
the team he's built, you know, I've been telling my wife, like,
I think you're gonna like this team. It's like a
lot of guys who are dogs have chips on their
shoulders a little bit kind of like the pacers, like
a lot of interchangeable parts who are all, you know,
six seven to six eight. So thus far, I'm very
cautiously optimistic. And the only reason I would say cautiously
is just as nothing Devrees hasn't done. It's just me

(19:15):
having lived through this unfortunately for twenty years.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
I think the thing I hear from most from fans,
and I'm curious if you kind of share the same
sentiment is you mentioned the plan, but just the opportunity
to maybe open up the floor a lot more than
what we've seen in the last couple of years in
terms of also collecting players who kind of meet certain
metrics from whether it be offensive rebounding percentage or three

(19:41):
point shooting percentage. Rather than just collecting talent without a
plan and how the pieces are going to fit together.
This seems like more of a measured approach in terms of, Hey,
we want guys that have taken this number of threes
and have hitted this percentage because we know we can
probably count on that on it. What once we get

(20:01):
this guy on our program? Whereas in the past thing
and this is nothing. It's Mike Woodson. I thought last
season they had a lot of talent, but the pieces
never really fit together. And I think there's a chance
for more success next season. Just from the standpoint of
I feel like they've actually targeted guys with specific traits

(20:21):
and have a way that they at least hope to
try to put them together. We have to see it
all play out, but it just it just feels like
overall the the plan is more organized. Is is that
fair to say? Do you do you share that? Do
you share that feeling?

Speaker 3 (20:42):
I do? No, I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
It's It's been interesting to me that last offseason so
much of the discussion was about the nil payments, like man,
we're spending this much and we got this guy for
that much. And it was about players with kind of
the asterisk of like, oh, he's making two million. I
think I heard too, you know, one million at least
from the people I've been kind of chatting with. It's
been more about the players and then their production versus

(21:06):
you know, when you talk about Wilkerson, it's like, man,
this guy has a guard who can shoot. It's like,
I haven't heard a lot of talk about the nil
money that we're giving out, which I'm sure we are.
I think it's a different mindset of like we're not.
We're probably still spending as much or maybe as much
as like, but it's more to your point about production
and what can this team do and you got some
guys who can shoot threes, it's just nice, like that

(21:28):
would be that would be awesome. And again, this was
the thing with the Woodson era of basketball is it's not,
you know, not everybody has to play the same style
of basketball. You don't all have to you know, three
and D and do what everyone else is doing. That said,
if you're going to play the way that Woodson was playing,
it gives you a very narrow band of being good

(21:51):
and you have to do those things well, and it's
like they were not doing the things well that you
had to do if you were going to play with
two bigs and take a lot of two point shots.
So I'm excited to see that. I think just having
a more free wheeling style of offense would be fun.
I mean that's also you know, in the end, it's entertainment,
like you want to go and have a good time.
And you know, the Cream teams were fun and they

(22:13):
shot a ton and you can get some outlier games.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
I'm I'm excited. I like what I'm seeing.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
I think the team, like I said, could be could
be really good, really interesting. What I like that you're
starting to see and we're starting to talk about a
little bit on our podcast, is people were a little
bit concerned because you basically have you know, of this class.
Debrees went after a lot of juniors and seniors in
the transfer portal, so you have one, two, three, six

(22:40):
seniors and three juniors. So it's like, man, this is
gonna and the concern is like, are you gonna have
to start flipping this every single year? But what you're
seeing is now they're getting very heavily into high school
recruiting in the twenty six and twenty seven classes and
going after some really interesting names. It's like, oh, yeah,
because there's a plan here where it's like, you know,
we're gonna there's going to be playing time for those

(23:02):
guys in twenty six and twenty seven because we're going
to have you know, you know, Debrees and Wilkerson are
all going to you know, push off. The roster is
going to be room. And again it's who cares, you know.
I'm sure the other you know, coaches and Woodson had
a plan, but this this feels a little more put together.
And I the last thing I'll say is, you know,

(23:22):
I keep going back to it's like this guy just
did this in West Virginia, Like he just built a
team from absolute ground up scratch, did it in West
Virginia and got that team on the brink of making
the tournament.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah. One thing that I think made fans, something I
talked to a little uneasy when he took over, was
just the fact that nobody stayed from last year's team.
But the more I've thought about that, I think part
of the reason that the style of play from Woodson
never really evolved is because he had all these players

(23:55):
that kept sticking around. You know, it was the beginning.
It was Tray Jackson day, and you couldn't not to
say that you wouldn't want to build a team around
Tray Jackson Davis. But when he's on your roster, you're
not gonna be shooting on the three because the ball
is gonna go outside. Then he had Malik Renew Khalil
where the you know, other front court players. It was
like every year that last year was Umar Bollo was

(24:16):
built around a front court player. So thinking about that more,
uh as the process went on, I thought, you know,
it sure would be nice to have a couple of
guys that you know what they're going to produce coming back.
But also being able to kind of build your roster
from nothing, assuming you can get the pieces that you

(24:38):
want and put it together, really allows you to construct
a team in year one that you can actually play
your style with. Because what's the same Elik Renew would
have come back, or two or three other guys that
that you know, Devrees necessarily maybe not necessarily would have
recruited on his own. But if Malik ra News on
this team next year, things are a lot different. So

(24:58):
I like the idea of, you know, maybe it's not
as talented, but there's the coach is bringing in pieces
that he feels like he can put in a position
to succeed based on the style play that he wants
to get, rather than trying to to fit guys into
a system that maybe doesn't work just based on the
fact that they were here in the past.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
I completely agree. And you know, it's also kind of like,
this is a team that didn't make the tournament for
two years. Like what, it's not like we're bringing back
guys from the final fourteen, just let's be honest, Like
it's anyway some of the you know, Galloway and Ballow
were gone no matter what. So you're you know, two
of the top maybe four guys are already not available
because they're graduating. It's like you're looking at renew Rice

(25:40):
and Embacco and yeah, maybe in a certain system one
or two of those guys would be good, but it's
like they they are holdovers from, you know, a team
that was disappointing enough that the coach got resigned or fired,
got got pushed to resign.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Unclear, unclear what exactly happened there.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
The coach is different, well put which is different, and
so you know there's some of that too, and it's
a you know, it's a team that the last two
years you watch them play and it's not like they
were always looked like they were having a great time.
Like it wasn't like an amazing chemistry. So there's not
a lot of reason to keep those people. And I
get it, but it's like it's a different era. And
I also think this is where you know you just

(26:19):
hand over to Devrees is like, look, one of the
reasons you want to come to IU is will give
you the ability to just turn it over and go
with it. So I, like you, I wasn't as concerned
I was, for you know, I knew it would all
get figured out. There was like a two week period
there where I was kind of like, it'd be nice
to start getting it figured out. Like there was it
took a while to get there, but I was never

(26:40):
freaking out, never like you's got to start signing people,
to sign people, but it was, you know, like, let's
let's start do it.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
There was like a two week period there. We had
his son and that was it.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
But it all got taken care of and he got
the team that I believe he wants.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, there was a there was a short period there,
and I think I put something on social media like
highlighting when Michigan got it commits under the Dusty May
era when it started. But there was that period. I
think it was hired March eighteenth, and I think in
right committed April second, but it was like a weekend
and people were starting to grow in a little bit.
It's like he said in his press conference, you got

(27:13):
to do the vetting on the front end. We got
to meet these guys, so I figure I think like
in terms of getting commitments, I think they got ten
and twenty seven days once things got rolling on April seconds,
So it all happened pretty fast once they kind of
got everything in place. So overall, the process I thought
worked out really well. I'm curious. You know, we've talked

(27:37):
about this in the past. You're a season ticket holder.
I know you haven't been in assembly as much as
in the past these past couple of years. Has this
rejuvenated your interest in getting back to more games in
Bloomington moving forward? Are you going to be more curious
to watch this team? You mentioned those Cream teams maybeing
a lot more fun to watch. This is the idea

(27:58):
of watching maybe a friend style of basketball now and
having a fresh start make you more anxious. Are are
anxious more excited to get back to games in Bloomington?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
It does, Yeah, it does, you know. And it's not
a knock on Devrees. It's just I think any coach
would have every coach. You know, one of the podcasts
on the back Home Network as Ex'es and Joe's and
they talk a lot about, you know, you getting kind
of a reset when you hire a new coach. It
was very similar to like an NBA team maybe tanking
and getting a draft pick. You you just get a reset,
and so part of it is just a new staff.

(28:30):
It's like, all right, I'm I'm bought back in. But
you know where Devrees is at and the more you
dig into it, it's like, man, you know, there's a
lot that he did to turn around you know, other programs,
what he did at West Virginia. You know, the style
that he plays, the kind of the ethos that he
brings from Creighton. You know, hearing stuff like Doug McDermott

(28:54):
talking about, man, I love that guy, Like that's why
I went to create not my dad, which is kind
of like all right, Doug, but it's also like you
he said it, and it's true, you know, I I
am very excited. I think seeing these pieces and seeing
guys who can shoot and seeing a different style would
be really is going to be fun. So part of
it is just getting you know, a new a new

(29:16):
lease on life. Having a younger coach, I think is interesting,
but I do I'm interested with the team he's building
and seeing some of the guys. It does feel like
it might just be a chip on the shoulder team
and might just have a much different ethos, which I think.
I think this could all blend nicely with IU. Here
here's the question I have for you. I'm gonna flip

(29:37):
it on you for a second. Sure, one of the
things I was kind of thought was interesting and I
was I thought was a positive, was you know, I
you hiring or DeVries hiring Kenny Johnson back who had
been under Kreen's staff. You know, somebody who you're already
seeing some guys in the DMV were giving offers to,
like you already see fingerprints of him all over the place.
I'm curious what your thoughts are on that higher. I mean,

(29:59):
I look at that is like that's something where another
coach might have been like, I can't do this. I
look at it very much as you know, this is
a coach in degrees. Is like I see talent, and
you know, all the other pieces doesn't really matter because
I see somebody who's really good at their job, and
I want somebody who's really good at their job on
my staff. And I'm curious what you thought about that
higher and if that kind of stuck out to you

(30:20):
one way or the other.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
I liked it a lot.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
When Kenny Johnson left Indiana, it was a pretty significant
blow to I think, to Tom Crane in terms of
what he was able to do recruiting wise.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
He did, to his.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Credit, brought in Chuck Martin who helped him get Thomas Bryant,
and talent wasn't really an issue of the Kreen ara.
But Kenny Johnson did a phenomenal job at the first
go round. And you know, obviously there was some question
marks I think from some in the fan base just
you know obviously what happened at Louisville. But all that
stuff water under the bridge in terms of his problems

(30:54):
with the NCAA. You know, I know Kenny Johnson a
little bit, has always been a really personable, nice guy.
I think he's one of the better recruiters in terms
of just building connections and getting to know kids of
any coach in the country. And the fact that they
brought him in along with the other guys they brought out,
you know, Rod Clark, I think is a very good

(31:16):
hire getting him away from Tennessee. Drew Adams obviously very
familiar with the Statey of Indiana with his ties to
the Indian Elite program. I think that it's just, you know,
we fall into this trap. You know, we followed this trap.
I think the last two times of when Archie was hired,
always got this great coaching staff, and these guys are great.

(31:37):
Same thing I think with Mike Woodson. So I never
want to say this is going to work out one
hundred percent. These guys are going to crush it. But
all of them have credentials of recruited high level players. Obviously,
we've seen Kenny Johnson do it in Indiana. We saw
him at Louisville recruit Donovan Mitchell. We saw him now
kind of rehab his career working at Rhode Island and
then last season at Georgetown.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
So I think it's good and I.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Think it's it's it's a higher that I don't think
we would have seen at Indiana maybe five or ten
years ago.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Right.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
I think that speaks to the idea of just getting
out of the way and letting the coach do his job.
If if Darren Devrees is gonna succeed in Indiana, he's
got to have administrative support, he's got to let he's
got to be allowed to do his job as he
sees fit. You know, as long as these guys don't
have anything in terms of NCAA rules that are like

(32:28):
are prohibiting them from doing their job now, which none
of it, none of them do what. As I said,
whatever happened with Kay Johnson is now a water under
the bridge. He's cleared from an NCAA perspective. Let the
coach assemble the staff that he wants, give him the
resources that he wants, and we'll see how it works.
So I think overall, it's a it's a it's a
really solid staff. We'll see how it works out. I

(32:48):
like the approach so far. They seem to be targeting
guys that that Clark and Adams and Johnson had already
maybe built a connection with it their previous stop, so
they kind of have built in relationships there. It's never
great to be starting from scratch this late in the process,
and so we'll see how it works out. I still
question long term how important high school recruiting is with

(33:11):
the portal out there. I don't know how big. Obviously
you want to get talented high school players and bring
them in, but at the same volume as what you
did in the past. I don't think that's going to
be the case, because if I can go out there
and get a ready made guy from the portal that
can come in and give me instant production, do I
want to have a high school recruiting class of five

(33:31):
or six guys every year. I don't think I do. So.
I like the idea of bringing in two, three, maybe
four really good players that fit the system. But I
think the days are over of having these, you know,
five or six men recruiting class that we saw maybe
ten fifteen years ago.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
I know I agree with that, but I do think
it needs to be a mixture, and I think that's
that's why I like seeing debries get some of these
recruiting only guys on his staff, because you know, that's
what you were seeing under Woodson that I thought was
a little bit wrong. I think it's wrong on either
side of universities that are programs that are.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Going hard one way or the other.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Like when you see, you know, Clemson football, when he's like,
I'm not I'm not doing any transfers, Like all right,
I don't think that's the right way to go about it.
But it felt like with Woodson it was like, well,
we don't really care about recruiting. It's like, well, I
don't think that's the right way either. You know, you
need to have a mixture. I'm not saying you were
saying that, but I do think it's important that you
know it's going to be a blend where you need
to have two or three or four guys that you're

(34:31):
recruiting that come in every year, and then also you know,
get guys that you can get on transfer. But but
I also say what's important is you know, just because
guys you get in the portal doesn't mean you know.
I do think this is a longer tail, and I
think this might be what Woodson was missing. Some of
is he just didn't seem to from everything I heard,
care much about high school recruiting. I was like, we'll

(34:53):
just get in the portal. Well, kids in the portal
guess where they started. They were high school recruits, and
so you know the idea that you don't you know,
I do think a lot of this is like, hey,
we're going to build a relationship now, and maybe we'll
offer you. Maybe you don't come, maybe we don't offer you,
but it's like we're gonna build that relationship. And then
maybe you go to Iowa State for a year and
it's like you don't like it, and it's like, hey,
now I'm not just coming and calling after you had

(35:16):
a good year at Iowa State. It's like we have
this long term relationship. And you see this a lot
in the portal is that guys go places in the
portal where it's like, oh, yeah, he was actually recruited
by that assistant coach four years ago, and so I do.
I would think to me, it's like a little bit
more more subtle than just we're trying to get high
school recruits. I think you're you're trying to build as

(35:36):
many relationships with as many players as you can, and
so I look at that as a real positive.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, maybe I misphrase it in terms of that one
the same thing. No, No, just in general of the
high school recruiting. I'm just saying in general, I think
what you said, the sweet spot is probably in the middle, right,
you land a couple of if you can get you know,
we could probably have a longer conversation about this. But

(36:02):
if you can get elite high school kids to come
that are one and done, two year player, of course
you take those guys.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
I think the.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Problem is more of the guy who maybe isn't as
highly ranked and isn't going to see the court maybe immediately.
You have to be able to convince them that there's
a two or three year plan and get them to stay,
because you don't want to recruit a guy who's on
campus for a year, never gets to play and then
just leaves the portal. You've gained nothing by that. So
I think you want to get guys who either can

(36:30):
come in and make an instant impact or they buy
your long term plan for development and then sprinkle in
some portal guys. I do think they did a pretty
nice job because early on I was like well, they're
getting all these guys from the portal that are all seniors.
They're not gonna having eligibility towards the end. They did,
to their credit, identify some younger players. They either have
a year or two eligibility left, so they're going to
have some continuity if they can keep those play. And again,

(36:53):
this is all just a one year plan, right. Every
year a college basketball is a one year plan. I mean,
who knows that some of these guys could come in
and knock it out of the park and and stay
multiple years, and and others could say, well, maybe I
didn't play as much. I'm gonna go somewhere else. So
that's that's the other thing. It's all it's all up
in the air and a year to year basis. Last
thing I wanted to ask you about, though, is we've
been seeing these teasers on social media from IU Athletics

(37:17):
and Galen has been banging the drum uh to bring
back the Bison for a long time on Crimson Cast.
What what has been your reaction to these these teases
on social media? It does I mean, obviously nobodys confirm
what this is, but I mean it, I mean, it
definitely seems like something tied to that or a mascot.

(37:38):
What what is your h what is your stance on
on bringing back the Bison? And and how how would uh,
how excited would your good friend Galen be if the
Bison is indeed returning to Bloomington.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
I mean, I love the idea of IU just gaslighting Galen,
like just We're gonna put a media strategy this summer
to gaslight a podcaster to get him. No, Galen's been
ending our podcast for the last five or six years,
bring me the Bison. You know, it's something where it
was a mascot for you know, as close to a
mascot as IU has had outside of when I was
in college and we had the big inflatable guys walking

(38:10):
around the football stadium, which was it didn't make a
lot of sense, but neither to having a black uniform
with an oval logo.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
Uh, Galen would be over the moon. It would be
on top of things. You know.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
It also kind of started with our our our I
would say it all started, but you know, home Field
Apparel one of their first big hits was a sweatshirt
that had the Bison, the old Bison logo on it
and I you got you know, I you wearing a bison.
You know Nicks has the Bison in their logo. You know,
it goes way back. I'm not even sure you need
to have like a bison. You don't need to have

(38:44):
a dress up character. I just I think the idea
of integrating it more with the university is a cool thing.
It gives you more looks, It gives you more ability
to have different looks of your uniforms and just different alternatives.
And you know, I think it started kind of jest
with Galen, kind of messing around, but yeah, I think

(39:04):
it would be awesome.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
You don't you don't want to live bison leading the
team out of the tunnel.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
I think that would be you.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
That would be incredible.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Not saying enough, but you know, it's a little bit
like Colorado's already got that.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Like I think you got to be careful you're not
diving too deep too early, Like you haven't had a
mascot for one hundred years and you're just gonna have
a live Bison on the field.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
No. I think it's awesome though, to have a mascot, right,
I mean, I think of like, I agree, college football
programs watching these rivalry games on TV, they all have mascots.
It just like feels like part of the part of
the sport, and Indiana hadn't had that for so long.
So a lot of people are gonna be like, well,
what's the connection with the Bison in Indiana? And they're just

(39:44):
doing this to you know, be different or whatever. It's like,
all right, it's Indiana football too, right, they need to
continue to find ways to differentiate themselves and be different
and be bold. I like the idea. I mean, they
got some momentum behind the program obviously right now with
what happened last year. They got a ton of talent
come going back, they did well in the transfer portal.
People were looking forward to another season where they could

(40:05):
compete in the Big Ten. Why not do something like this?

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I agree, I agree, I'll recan't. A live Bison would
be awesome on the field, I'm in. But I mean
they they've been kind of tinkering with this for a while.
You know, under Kevin Wilson. One of the intro videos
for football had Bison running across the state of Indiana
all toward Memorial Stadium. So it's and again like that's
what I would say, anybody who was like, where's this
coming up? Like bison has been part of IU for years,

(40:27):
Like it was there were Bison mascots in Memorial Stadium
in like the forties, fifties or six somewhere. You know, yeah,
is yeah, way back when. I also it is another
little dig in my mind at Purdue, which I love
because it's like it's part of the Indiana state flag
and it's just kind of hammers home, like, yeah, we're
we're the University of Indiana. Like it's where the University

(40:51):
of Indiana, universe of the state of Indiana. We have
the state flag, we have that bison, that's all ours.
I think it would be awesome. It would be really
cool if they announced that. I would also love to
see a helmet with the Bison logo on it. That
would to me, that would be really cool. And I
would say same thing with the basketball jerseys. Let's get
a jersey that has a bison on you know, the

(41:13):
shorts on the side. You know, I'm all for kind
of changing things up a little bit as well.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
I mean, if Adidas can get it together and produce
a peril too, I mean, think of how much revenue
they could generate just for the university from that because
people will buy that stuff. Kids love mascots, you know.
You know, I'm sure my kids are a little bit
older now, but I'm sure little kids would would love
something like that. And I think I think it's just
I think it's a smart thing to do. So hopefully,

(41:39):
again we're all we're just speculating here. We have no
idea what these teasers are, but they're they're coming out
pretty well done. Jeremy Gray with some some great acting
chops on a couple of those.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
So then you can have a bike, you know, one
of the one of the the rally towels at the
stadium could be the Bison. No, it gives you a
whole nother layer of things to use, and it does.
It feels like Indiana up marketing is starting to I
don't say wake up, because they've always been around, but
it's like they're really jumping on the opportunity they have
with what football has been doing.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Well.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
You have to write because in this era of revenue sharing,
you got to you got to bring in whatever you can, right,
bring in every dollar, every dollar matter. So you want
to be competitive, do what you can well, Scott enjoy
your sports weekend. I know it's gonna be a lot
of fun holiday weekend.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Let me, I want to have a positive a This
is this very positive note, but it is something I
have thought about at a high level for basketball. You know,
let's let's assume that the devis Eras goes really well,
and so in two or three years we're at a
point where I'm not going to be talking final fours
and titles, because that's we got to get there first.

(42:45):
Let's just say this higher works and we're to point
where we're really happy. What I do think is really
cool is that we are in that window you look
back on the Cream era once it started humming, like
once you had the oladipot Zeller the Holes team, that
was awesome. But because that turned out to be awesome,

(43:06):
I think we all look back in retrospect and really
have a positive remembrance of like Tom Pritchard and Matt Roth,
like that whole era, that two or three year window
where you were building it. And you know, if you
end up building it, it turns into nothing. It's not
a ton of fun. But if you build it and
then all of a sudden, it's like holy crap, We're
beating Kentucky and we're going to a final four and

(43:26):
it's like Verdel Jones or not Final four, but you know,
we're number one team in the country and we're the
number one seed in the tournament.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
You know it.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
It helps kind of remember back that the Verdel Jones
era a little bit better. And so I do think
we're at that point right now where this team, you know,
next year's team, you could be at a point where
this becomes a really beloved team if things end up
turning out right and it's a fun journey that you
really can't replicate. And we talked about IU football. Everyone

(43:52):
should show up, like everyone shows up, come to the games.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Please.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
It's gonna be hard to replicate last year because last
year you can't go up the mountain two different times.
You can still go and we still have places we
haven't gone in IU football, but it's like it's now
there's a little more expectation. So anyway that that's what
I've been thinking about, is that I do think that's
what's on the table here, as you could have some
of the most beloved teams we've had in a while

(44:16):
in IU basketball in the next two years, even if
they don't accomplish things that we think are you know,
at that level in IU basketball.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah. But the thing you got to remember too is
what kurtising that they did with AU football last year
has given fans belief that things can happen quickly. And
I think that's the only reason we should.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Get over over our skis on that.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Like, I think that's something where so if I you
doesn't make the sweet sixteen, it's not like it's a
failure like to me, no, yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
I think it's I think it's also just given people
a new perspective just to say that, you know, it
doesn't have to be a two or three year struggle.
Look at look at Louisville with Pat Kelsey, look at
Kentucky with Mark Pope. I mean, obviously Louisville just got
back into the tournament and the year two years before
they were historically bad. And Kentucky obviously they were a
lot of fun to watch last year made to the

(45:03):
Sweet sixteen. So I think, and and again, this is
another conversation we could have in the fall, once we
know more about all the rosters, and once once we
were closer to the season. But you know, I think
if you can just come out next season and play
a fun, exciting Brandon basketball to watch and get into
the tournament, I think that's really gonna be a great
jump start for this era of IU basketball.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, I mean it's not maybe asking too much. You
look at Kentucky last year. It's like they go twenty
one to ten, ten and eight in the SEC. Make
it the sweet sixteen. It's like done. I'll take that like.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
That, that would be an unbelievable season.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
And you know what I'm excited about too, is don't
forget we're playing Kentucky next year. It's like all of
a sudden, like it's like wow that that series starts immediately,
and I'm excited. I'm gonna I'm gonna try and go
to RUP for that game. I think there's a lot
of little touch points early in the year where you
could really jazz this fan base up at a very high.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Degree for sure. Well, Scott, enjoy your weekend in Indianapolis.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
Thank yous, go enjoy your Monday off.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Help everyone has a great more Memorial Day weekend. And
thanks everybody as always for listening to podcasts on the Brink.
If you enjoy the show. Please leave us five star
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