July 25, 2025 • 45 mins
On this episode, Alex Bozich is joined by college basketball reporter Rocco Miller to discuss scheduling in college basketball, IU's hiring of Darian DeVries and the program's outlook for next season and more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
It's Friday, July twenty fifth. College troops probably not top
of mind for a lot of fan bases throughout the country,
but Indiana basketball it's three hundred and sixty five days
a year. Good to be back for a third straight
week with an episode of podcasts on'll. Before we get
to today's guests, wanted to ask, if you have a
(00:38):
moment and you enjoy the show, please leave us a
rating and a review over on Apple Podcasts. Leave us
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podcast discover the show. So we do appreciate that support.
This week's episode. Good friend of the show Roco Miller.
He was on back in the spring before we knew
what was going to happen with the Indiana coaching situation.
(01:00):
At that point, I think we had some discussion about
the Indiana bubble case for the tournament. Turns out the
Hoosiers didn't make the tournament, but we already knew at
that point that a new coach was going to be
brought in. Hoosiers bring in Darren Devrees, who Rocko is
familiar with covering him a little bit during his time
(01:21):
at Drake and Rocco. I like to have him on
because he just kind of has a lot of insight
in a lot of different areas of college basketball scheduling,
and we do a lot of ton of work with
mid majors bracketology. So we're just gonna bounce around and
have a fun conversation here on a Friday in July. Rocco,
welcome back to the show. How you doing. Also for
(01:43):
those of you watching us on YouTube, you may notice
he's kind of here in a coffee shop, maybe an
uncommon location, but having some work done at his house
and didn't want to have too much noise. So if
you hear any jostling or noise in background, if you're
just listened to the audio version, Rocko's safe. He's just
(02:04):
in a just in a coffee shop here. How you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Rocco audio comes through well for the audio listeners.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Always get to be back on with you, Alex. Things
are going well overall, working on a lot. In fact,
it's kind of crazy to me, but sometimes I sit
back and now we're July twenty fifth, feels like it
was just the final four for me because things get
super busy each day with numerous phone calls and trying
(02:35):
to make things happen schedule wise. You know, I try
to play a hand in all thirty one league scheduling.
In some cases it's a lot heavier, like leagues like
the Missouri Valley where Darian Devrees started in.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Twenty nineteen as a head coach.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And you know, because they need the most help, right
they get stuck and teams don't want to play them.
And over all, so originally this all started, we're trying
to help those teams get large opportunities. As we found
out in these last couple of selection Sundays, it's.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Not so easy for them to get bids at all.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
And and yeah, and based on Indiana where they where
they were.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Last year, at least it's a fresh start. Obviously frustrating.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I thought they certainly did more than North Carolina and
Texas to get involved, to be included, I should say,
for the tournament. But I think we all knew they
were right there on the cutoff, and turns out there
like the first or second team out. But fresh start here,
and I think everybody's gonna love watching the way Darien
Devriese coaches endgame strategically and uses his different pieces, So
(03:39):
I'm excited for the Hoosiers.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, the scheduling stuff, and we send direct messages back
and forth on Twitter in the summer. I'm always asking like,
what are you hearing from an IU perspective, And I
think in years past you had some nuggets. Maybe not
as much this year because it seemed like with Indiana,
we kind of knew some of the bigger games that
they were gonna have on their schedule and then they
just dropped the non conference schedule all at once. The
(04:02):
scheduling piece fascinates me from the standpoint of a lot
of programs do things differently, So I'm curious, like, at
a high level your role in terms of trying to
help facilitate schedules around the country, what do you do
in kind of what are maybe some of the challenges
from the high major perspective and then also from the
mid and the low major perspective.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, it's a little bit of everything. But I think
for me, like these last four or five cycles, I've
started heavily with the event space. Several events are searching
for teams at all levels. Obviously, it starts at the
Players Era now with the eighteen or so teams that
are going there, and then that's really diminished the marketplace
(04:48):
for power fives. Like you'll see the Maui Invitational field
this year. They do have Texas and NC State and USC,
but it's not nearly the names that you're used to
seeing with teams like Washington State State, Arizona State going there.
Battle for Atlanta, you could say the same thing really
took a step back with you know, two American Conference
(05:09):
teams in that this year and only holding onto a
handful of power fives in their event, and it trickles
down from there. So with the model that we've all
been playing by the rules with in the ns doa A,
it's been either the twenty eight regular games plus three
in your event or the twenty nine plus two in
your event, and that's how teams can get up to
(05:30):
their thirty one games. But then there's several schools like
if they're not playing the Players Era, they can leverage
their event for different opportunities. So like in Indiana's case,
it's not too uncommon. We've got a few examples of
this around the country. They'll play a Marquee game with Marquette.
Build an MTE around that. Indiana gets Milwaukee at home
(05:51):
and Marquette gets Little Rock at home, and that game
in Chicago will help generate some NIL dollars. At least
that's the plan when it got when it got put together.
You'll see that with Huisville and Cincinnati this year. You'll
see it with Texas A and M and Florida State
this year. So there's a lot of different ways to
skin the mt CAT these days, and that's really kind
(06:11):
of changed the way the marketplace works. And then the
rule is for those a little bit unfamiliar with it,
each team can only play in one event unless you
play in Hawai Whwa I can play in multiple So
there's just this huge cat and mouse game that goes
on for several months. It's still going on today on
(06:32):
July twenty fifth, for some teams to who's going where
do they have one yet?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Are they playing in one? Can we go get them?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
And if you can believe it, there's still a couple
events I'm helping with that need a couple of teams.
So the phone calls never stop, even just within that
one little bubble of games that you find for the schedule.
I think where I'm different than pretty much anybody else
out there doing scheduling is when I talk to staffs
at any level, at the power five level all the
(07:01):
way down to the very low major level, is I'm
doing a full more of a consulting level approach. We're
talking about all the games in November and December, how
the puzzle pieces fit together. You know, if you're playing
a couple of hard games in a row, do you
build an.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Easy game in between?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
You know, things of that nature, right, so that there's
a lot of logic and predictability within that. And so
it's helped me kind of learn different ways to go
about a schedule and different things I can offer to
a program that would make sense. You know, I basically
kind of act as a filter for the staffs before
(07:40):
even presenting them an option.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I think, I think I help.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Them that way where we're not wasting each other's time.
And then you would be surprised. But even on games
like you know, it didn't really happen for Indiana this
year because they're a brand new staff and projected in
the forties, I think on Torvik, but everybody's looking at
that stuff every day and scheduled, and so I think
for them they were able to get the teams like
(08:04):
linden Wood and Alabama and m and between.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Cook in Chicago State.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Everybody's going to overlook those games, maybe even give in
India a little bit of a hard time for not
playing tougher teams. But in scheduling, those are like some
of the teams that are really really hard to get
with a heavy price tag. And there's a ton of
competition for them too. So all of it's pretty fascinating,
you know, to be involved with that.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Day to day. Why is it.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That those teams are hard to get even though their
ranks so low in some of the metrics.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, well, I think they know what they're worth, and
I think they know that they're both they're looking at
the same data as the high majors are looking at.
And so you know, for example, I talked to a
Swax school last night and they will not even take
a phone call if the offer's not at least one
hundred thousand in guarantee money.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And you know, I basically told them, I don't blame you.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
You should be probably getting that because power fives right now,
whether it's the SEC to Big ten, to ACC even
Big East and H and Big twelve. They're all able
to pay that the going rates probably between one hundred
and twenty for this year or so. Yeah, so they
know what they're worth. So basically, if you're Chicago State,
(09:15):
you can call everybody around you and and get the
money you need. Uh and then you just got to
slot in the dates like it's tetris tetris.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
So it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Let me ask you one question because you mentioned the
Players only it's at the Players Festival thing that's in
Vegas kind of right, and you mentioned it's impact on
Mali and the Battle for Atlantis. I mean, the Indiana
was in the Battle for Atlantis last year. I know
there's been talk of maybe a return in the future
(09:48):
to going back to Mali. Is this just kind of
a you know, maybe a one or two three year
thing where these events are maybe down or is this
something that you foresee, like as a long term problem
for events like Battle for Atlantis and Malley And are
they doing anything with those events to maybe try to
make themselves more attractive to these teams so that they
(10:10):
can prop themselves up back in the future. Because you
think about the future. You know, I've been watching Malley
for since I was a kid. It's been a great event,
and then obviously Battle for Atlantis more recent, but in
the last you know, five to ten years, it's become
one of the staples too of that Thanksgiving week college
basketball fans tuning into those And now you have this
this deal in Las Vegas, which I'm not saying it's
(10:32):
a bad thing for the sport by any means. You
get all those great teams together, but it seems like
it's maybe diminishing these these events, as you said, And
is there any hope to kind of get those things
back in better standing in the future.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, that's a terrific segue kind of into the next
chapter of scheduling, which begins with the twenty twenty six
twenty seven season, and it's I think CBS has written
a piece about it, but it's been known to in
the business since at least March, maybe since January that
we're going to go to thirty two games regardless of
(11:05):
if you're in an event or not, starting next year.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And so, you know, I think on the surface, a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Of people are reacting to like that's the end of
events don't mean needs to flay them anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
What are these companies going to do?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
But I also think there's another way to think about
it to where it actually opens more doors for teams
to get their thirty two games.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
One of the key factors at least for next.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Year we'll see if this changes over the years, is
the calendar's not changing, So you know, why wouldn't you
max out your thirty two games for most programs they're
going to And with the calendar not changing, you're adding
an extra game. So how are you going to do
that in November and December when we only have about
seven weeks? Most schools only have six because they have
finals to toy around with. And one of the ways
(11:52):
you can do that is you can come to these destinations. Obviously,
the players Era is not going anywhere to paying a
million dollars a team show up, so that's that's certainly
not going anywhere. And I think at places like Maui
in Atlantis now, and you know we're talking even with
places like.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
The Cancun Challenge and and uh.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Stuff popping up in Aruba, Cayman Islands, UH stuff in Florida.
So theoretically we can set these up now on any
given weekend.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
They don't necessarily have to be Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Now, I think the bigger ones, like you mentioned Maui
and Battle for Atlantis, they can actually make a little
bit of a comeback because even if a team is
signed up for the Players ERA, there's nothing to stopping
them from going and playing in Maui or Atlantis unless
the dates are the same, then of course they can't
play in both. But if you spread these dates around, uh,
you can actually have h You can play in as
(12:46):
many of these as you want, and you can show
up and the way I'm introducing it, and we'll see
ultimately it'll be up to the owners and organizers set
of set events. But my idea would be just get
get those locations locked in for four to five days.
A team can come down and play once. They could
play three, they can play two, So it doesn't you know.
(13:09):
I think for the fan, we all want to see
a bracket and a natural you know like that. Now
we Battle for Atlantis have always been, but that's already
been starting to go away kind of across most events
you see, like what Vegas has, it's just a lineup
of games each day, and I think from talking to
enough power fives in the last three months, that's pretty
much what you're gonna start seeing.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
But I think on the on the flip.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Side, the good news is you can still get a
couple of games in multiple destinations, which would be really
exciting for fans and kind of help save the events.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So that's the lass half full outlook for the future.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Now we have to see how the teams behave from
here on, how much they want to take on.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Is this bad news for the possibility of getting like
more home and home games potentially in the non conference
of the season between like major programs, because obviously Indiana
Kentucky are gonna be playing the next couple of years,
or some neutral games sprinkled in there. But you mentioned
(14:10):
the ability that these teams can now go playing multiple events.
I'm also thinking they're also going to want some home
buy games sprinkled in there. So it makes me wonder
do some of these marquee games with major programs home
and homes, do those get squeezed out as time goes on.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
You know, at at Indiana's level, I don't think so,
because I think they've figured out a way to generate
a lot of revenue with local Marquee games, whether that's
a home and home, whether that's a game at the
United Center like Marquette this year or in game Bridge
with Louisville this year, those are big time games.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
They're gonna sell out. It's all about business.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
And dollars at this point in college sports, as you know,
and so there's there's they're gonna have like a bunch
of options, but the top options will always be which
ones can bring revenue back into their program and and help,
you know, do every anything you need to do, get
players pay, you know, pay for your program, et cetera.
So I don't think those are going anywhere. Those have
(15:07):
proven to be very highly successful at Indiana's level at
least now. I think when you go down to like
a Missouri Valley level and they're having a hard time
getting games, this format could actually help those types of
teams egg get a harder schedule, but be be able
to get a couple different weekend scheduled where they can
play two to three games in a weekend and if
(15:28):
they need fourteen non conference games, you know, they can
knock out six in a matter of.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Six days between two different weekends.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
So I think that's where it's going to be pretty
popular to go to maybe multiple destinations, but a team
like Indiana, of course, or any Marquee Power.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Five team, they'll have no no shortage of options, shifting gears.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You know, you mentioned before we hit record here that
you covered Darren Devrees summit at Drake. I think you
said you went to at least one Drake game a
year for several seasons in a row. Just you know,
you what's it been like maybe to kind of watch
his progression in the business. Obviously, spend a long long
(16:09):
time at Creighton as an assistant coach under under McDermott,
gets his opportunity at Drake, you know, goes to West
Virginia for a year. Now at Indiana. That's a pretty significant,
you know, climb in the profession from where he started
out at Drake and where that program was to now
being here at Indiana. Just I guess maybe a two
(16:29):
part question, are you surprised at all that he's been
able to rise this much this quickly? And what are
maybe your impressions of him as a coach and his
chances to succeed in Bloomington.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, I mean, I think I'm not too surprised.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
I'm a little surprised he only was at West Virginia
for one year, especially a year where you know, they
ultimately got locked out of the tournament.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Much like Indiana too much chagrin.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Of the Mountaineer faithful, but obviously you get an opportunity
to work at a place at Indiana, it's one of
the best premier jobs in the country. Certainly not for everybody,
but I think with Devreze's temperament, I mean, he's a
super humble guy. He's never going to be a pump
his chest ego type of coach.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
He's a player's first coach. He's extremely organized. You know.
One of the things that impressed me.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
You know, he was an assistant at Creighton for twenty years,
and so he applied for the Drake job three times
over those twenty years. It was his dream job, being
from the area, and finally got it in twenty nineteen.
I was very intrigued by that because at the time
Drake was really down his program towards the.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Bottom of the in the valley. I had just, for whatever.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Reason, kind of always wanted them to be better because
Northern Iowa's had so many great teams and then of
course you got the two big of Iowa schools. I
was spending some time in Des Moines during that era
as well of my life, so I wanted to see
a good team. So when I got to see him
that first year in twenty nineteen, I was blown away
just by how organized they were. If you know, they
(18:08):
were running basically McDermott McDermott style creating offense back at
a time when not nearly like a lower percentage of
tool for doing that. Still you see it everywhere now,
like with the Alabama's, the Byus.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Et cetera.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
But he's kind of had those principles since day one
at Drake, and then I think by twenty twenty three
he was able to really figure out defense and how
to recruit his roster for run protection and be organized defensively.
Drake had a top forty defense in that twenty twenty
three year when they won the Valley that year, and
(18:43):
of course followed that up with the top seventy five
defense the year after, mixed in with the top forty offense.
It's really really hard to do in this era of
college basketball at that level. And then I think when
West Virginia was healthy last year, there was no question
they were not only a tournament team, but probably trending
towards the top six to seven seed. Struggled without degrees
(19:05):
of course after those first eight games, but Jabon Small
was absolutely tremendous, and you could certainly make the argument
they did enough to get included. So I've been impressed
with basically all the different adversity they've faced, you know,
through those six years at Drake and last year at
West Virginia. You know, they came up with a huge
win at fog Allen last year and I think, you know,
(19:29):
shocked everybody. They had a game against Iowa State. I
think that sticks out the most to me last year
when they allowed zero fast.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Break points, zero transition points.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
And so that's one of the areas of defense he's
mastered these last three years. You'll see that West Virginia
had a top fifteen adjusted defense, and transition defense is
one of the hardest things to teach in college basketball,
and I thought West Virginia for a good chunk in
season was elites at that and if Indiana can get
to that level, they'll win a lot of games because
(20:00):
in the Big Ten, as you know, Alex so.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Many of these games are won on the margins, and
so team there's.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Enough teams like Illinois and you know they'll be at
Michigan and the list pups bond in the league USC
where there's teams want to get out and run, He'll
he'll have a great plan to slow that trend.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Take the transition gave away effectively.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Uh. We saw how amazing Iyowa of States offense was
last year, and I was still blown away that Iowa
State did not have a single fast.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Breakpoint in their upset loss against West Virgreaba. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I you know, I'm curious kind of you're a little
bit more on your thoughts on his temperament because you
mentioned that, you know, that's a big deal with the
Indiana job because kind of going back to Crean and
there was obviously that was up and down situation if
things are going well. You know, his personality was really
actually pretty good for the job because he you know,
(20:52):
he was able to sell the job and was out
there engaging with the fan base when things didn't go
as well. I don't think he handled that all that well.
Archie to me, came in with the pedigree as being
a really sawid coach, but he didn't really want to
engage the fans in any meaningful way, and it kind
of just seemed like he just wanted to coach the
team and not do anything else. And then Mike Woodson,
(21:14):
you know, he didn't really do anything extra beyond just
the bare minimum of you know, in terms of the
outside stuff that it takes to do in Indiana. The Freese,
I think is going to be interesting because you know,
you mentioned him being a humble guy. I think the
thing that's been most encouraging for me. And I've only
met him once and had a chance to sit down
(21:35):
with him last month in his office and talked for
thirty five to forty minutes. But he wanted to talk
basketball like at a very detailed level, and that's not
something that the Indiana coach has wanted to do really
recently the last couple of ten years. So that was
interesting to me. And you mentioned him being humble. That
(21:58):
was really the kind of the vibe he gave off
to me as well as is he just seemed like
a normal A lot of these coaches just have this
persona like as they're not like approachable, as like a
regular human being, a regular person but he just seemed
like a normal everyday guy. Maybe that's because he was
an assistant coach for so long and grinded his way
up through the through the ranks, and you know, he
(22:18):
maybe never expected to be the coach in Indiana, but
he seems genuinely appreciative for the opportunity and just really
I don't want to stay happy to be there because
he obviously earned the opportunity and he's gonna, I think,
do a really good job. But just his personality, based
on other coaches that I've interacted with over a long
period of time, just just was a little bit different.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, And I pretty much agree with everything you said there.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I think based on Indiana's recent past with those three
head coaches before him, this will be a nice change,
I think. And I also think it's somewhat required and
probably was part of the search thought process right for
the you know, the administrator and board members that made
the decision to hire coach Devrees. You know, he he
(23:06):
is a very laser focused guy, as you kind of
hinted at there, and really is an XS and o's
just hoop junkie. I ran into him at rock Hill
atidis event about a week and a half ago, and
the same guy didn't seem any different.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
He could have had a Drake shirt on Orgon Indiana.
Sure it's the same person. He's not any different. So
that tells me, you know, the job's not changing him.
And and you.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Know, he had limited to little expectations at West Virginia
last year, and really, like I said, when they were
full strength, I mean they were top fifteen team for
a long time, at.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Least in those first eight weeks of the season.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
And you know, if you get a healthy Devres this
year and all the pieces you brought in, I think
the kid from you know, Troy is tremendous. He's got
a chance to be a big time player in this
in the Big ten level. He proved that, I think
in the NCAAT against Kentucky and so so yeah, I
think they're just going to continue to improve and get
better throughout the year. They might they might have a
couple of results early that fans aren't gonna love, but
(24:09):
they're going to learn from that and.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
They're going to continue to grow.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And I think in college basketball that's the hardest thing
to find is guys who just stick with it and
keep getting better.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And I think it's also shows up in the types
of kids he brings in.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I mean, I've gotten to know Sam Alexis both when
he was with Michigan and Alabama.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That kid's a tremendous kid.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Pretty much everybody I know of on the roster that
I've either interacted with or or talked to their head
coach about really really high IQ basketball and just a
relatable kid to you know, easily for them to get
along with others, not going to create trouble. So so
I feel like that was done intentionally as well.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So even if you know.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Talent wise and experience wise, they come across as middle
of the PAC Big ten and forty second in the country.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
You saw with Forda last year. The teams that jell
can really really push that.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Envelope all the way to the top ten if it
all comes together correctly. So I'm not going to boldly
predict that, but I think it is all possible.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, The.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Recruiting waters that he's going to be swimming in now,
obviously from a high school recruiting perspective, are going to
be a little different than obviously for sure Drake, and
probably a little bit higher too than what was expected
it was Virginia, but I think he did a really
good job putting together a coaching staff with experience recruiting
those type of players, and so far they seem to
(25:34):
be with the twenty six class getting mentioned with a
lot of guys who are highly ranked, and so we'll
see how that obviously develops. There's still the portal out there,
so I'm not sure exactly get the balance in terms
of how the portal and high school will be recruited
moving forward, but they do seem to have a pretty
good start in terms of making contacts with high school
kids and you know, having a chance to put together
a solid twenty six class. But I want to focus
(25:56):
more specifically on this upcoming season because you look at
the roster on paper and you say, well, there's there's
maybe not a surefire NBA guy in this team, but
there's a lot of solid pieces and that maybe will
take some people into in the in the preseason saying
this is maybe a you know, eleventh or twelfth best
team in the Big Ten. But the chance to outperform
(26:19):
that expectation to me seems real based on what he
was able to do last season with West Virginia, with
I don't want to say a similar situation, but he
did have to turn the roster over completely this year
in Indiana. I had to probably take more portal guys
than he would would want to in a normal cycle,
just out of necessity because the whole roster was gone.
And some of these guys are making the jump up
(26:41):
from the mid major to the high major level, and
we don't always know how that's going to translate. But
I'm just kind of curious for your thoughts on this
roster as a whole. You mentioned Tayton Connorway as a
guy you like. Sambalexis was a guy that won a
national championship at Florida last season, so he's got that
experience of playing on the biggest stage. Devrees in as
a transfer to you know, people forget he's a two
(27:03):
time player of the Year in the Missouri Valley. That's
that's not an easy thing to do. He was a
really good player last year too before he got hurt.
Lamar Wilkerson was outstanding at sam Houston State last year.
One of the best three point shooters in the country.
You can kind of just go down the list. All
these guys have some accomplishments at the lower level, and
you wonder how it's going to translate to the high
(27:24):
major level. But I think the chance to outperform expectations
is definitely there if things go well.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, I agree, And like I said, I think the
biggest thing is is these.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Guys will you know, be very easy easily to It'll
be easy for them to gel just as personalities, and
I think I think the key will be you know,
Ken connor Way and Wilkerson.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You know, they're probably the most likely to be just
those alpha dog point guard or shooting guard level guys
that want the ball in their hands. They obviously, if
Tucker Devreeze knock on Wood was healthy throughout the year,
you've got a guy who can go get you a
bucket at any time. That's a difference in this roster
of course, to be able to find a guy who
(28:08):
can close games out late.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
But I think Connorway is that good.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Too, at least be able to get to the foul
line and or create for somebody else. I think with
Reed Bailey, with him being near forty two percent at
Davidson with a pretty good sample size, you know, I
think he'll play outside quite a bit, but he'll make
defenses pay with dragging bigs that maybe don't cover the
perimeter as well, and obviously Alexis has experienced, but I
(28:34):
think it's going to be piece mail in the front court.
Obviously not the tallest team in the big team in
the Big Ten by any means, So that's the part I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Kind of curious to see.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I know Josh Harris was a rebounding menace at North
Florida that they were well documented last year for the
opening week of the season when they upset Georgia Tech
in South Carolina with some crazy rebounding numbers.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
He was a big part of that.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
But you know, their season fell apart quickly after that,
and you've got Josiah Miles from that roster as well.
Much different player, but bigger score. I think the shooting
is like, like you pointed out as there. I just think,
you know, what they're gonna need to do is figure out,
you know, how to divvy up the front floor, how
(29:16):
to get stops.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
You know, teams like.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Michigan and Purdue or Gigantic, So it's like, how's that
going to look.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
We'll have to see.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
But I think some of those schematic principles that I
hinted at earlier, whether it be transition defense, perimeter defense
was actually eighth in the country for West Virginia es Shoal.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Those types of things can move the needle.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
One of the things you know, living by Saint Mary's
that I count a lot when I'm watching games is
how many stops you call them, call them kills or
turkeys in practice a team can get. I think Indiana's
gonna be one of the better teams that that, just
based on the system they've been preaching both at West
Virginia and Drake these last four years. I think that
(29:58):
carries over many of the same staff members still with Darien.
So I'm excited to see what it looks like. And
I think, you know, when it comes to like bubble
talk and in or out and all that, these types
of coaches and winning on the margins, having a go
to bucket guy late in games, that can be the
(30:19):
difference sometimes with being a tournament team or not. And
I think it's all vibing pretty well for Indiana on paper.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Kind of switching gears here a little bit. There's obviously
a busy offseason for coach coaching turnover in the Big ten.
Four new coaches. We've obviously talked about the reason. I'm
just kind of curious for your high level thoughts on
the other new coaches in the league. Buzz Williams going
over from Texas A and M to Maryland. Ben McCollum
obviously leaves the res old school Drake and goes to Iowa.
(30:50):
And then Nico Medved going from Colorado State to Minnesota.
Just your your thoughts on each of those and the
fit and maybe I don't know, if you want to
go on a limb, which of those of those three
HighRes did you like the best of those of the bunch?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, good questions. I think for me, I'm a huge
mcfollham guy.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Not to praise Drake too much, but I think his
track record speaks for himself. If you followed Northwest Missouri
State at all Division two, he was basically by far
the legend and best coach of Division two. In fact,
energied at Texas Tech I think a few years back,
ended up staying and then took Drake. I think that
(31:32):
surprised a lot of people, but it was a good
fit for him because he brought four of his starters
with him. To Drake last year and we saw how
that looked. Just an amazing thirty win season. Bennett Stetz,
of course, is not only the best player in the
Missouri Valley last year, but he was one of the
best players, you know, by all the different efficiency metrics
in the country. I got to see their win against
(31:54):
Kansas State and Kansas City last December, and I think,
you know, just with him at Iowa and some some
of those other blue guys coming over, they got the
Robert Warris as best player in Alvaro he was just
playing in FIBA, but just the ability for him to
make things happen in Bennett's six as an extra coach
on the floor.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
They're just gonna find ways to win.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
It's gonna annoy the rest of the Big Ten, Like
I think when Indiana plays them, you guys are gonna
be so annoyed playing them. But I just think Iowa's
got a very high ceiling because they just they won't
back down no matter what. They're gonna win ugly. They
won't blow a lot of teams out. But just look
at what they did at Drake. I think I think
there's enough in that in that roster to do it
(32:37):
at this level, so he's probably the one I'm the
highest on. I think after that you probably do have
to go to Buzz Williams just for those track record. Uh,
he just finds ways to win. He's got some of
his guys in there. Of course, he's got Miles.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Rice over there, who is underwhelming at Indiana.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
But I think with Buzz maybe he has his redemption
season and I don't know, I think Maryland kind of
projects a bubble team, but again with Buzz's track record,
a really good opportunity to surprise and maybe move up
a few spots from where they'll be picked. I really
like the fit, of course for Nico medfit at Minnesota.
(33:14):
Now the roster you could argue probably not quite tournament
level on paper yet, but they have a really good
staff and I think they should be able to build on,
you know, any of the ceilings that Ben Johnson hit,
so overall, the GOP for programs in better hands. Nico's
a great coach. He's done it at three different schools
so far. Now he's in his dream job, so they'll
(33:37):
be taking that very seriously. And we've we've covered degrees
that that missed.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
No, that's it I'm curious, like, from a bracketology perspective,
start like starting out the season, is there any Big
ten team you look at and say, this team's probably
not going to be in the conversation at all the
whole year. I mean, the one I was looking at,
like off the top of my head, Penn State seems
like they're really kind of fallen off just based on
the roster turnover. Is there anyone else that comes to
(34:04):
mind and says you say, well, this is probably going
to be a transition or rebuilding year.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, I would say Penn State's kind of the obvious one.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
But I'd also say I have some pretty big concerns
about Rutgers. You know, they had they had two you know,
top five picks last year and some pretty good portal
ads I would add ad as well last year, and
still really struggled. Now they're you know, they're inserting a
couple more freshmen that are less heralded. You know, I
(34:33):
saw I saw Zmo for Bosnia play a little bit,
but a lot of the European guys will take a
little bit to adjust to Big ten, and there's just
a high level talent.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Threeque Francis have huge numbers at nj A T.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
But I mean that's a huge jump to the Big
Ten from one of the lower leagues in in Division one.
So bu Cannon is maybe the most proven guy from
George Washington. But I'm pretty sure Rutgers will land on
the seventeen spot for me on the projections, and then I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Curious a little. I mean, I never want to doubt
a Chris.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Collins team, but I think, you know, and they do
have Mick Martinelli back, I do think more than likely
Northwestern is projected at more than an IT slash Crown
Tournament level team with.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
A little bit more upside than those those other two
Rutgers in Penn State.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Hey, you talk about though program that is annoying to
play against, and I respect them Northwestern. I mean, yeah,
Collins selfishly, I kind of wanted to see him like
take another job this offseason, just to see what he
could do at a place with more resources, because he
seems like a coach that if he had more talent,
he could really kind of take off. I mean, I
(35:44):
understand that that's home for him now, and that's you know,
he's probably the coach there as long as he wants
to be, but I've always respected what he's been able
to do there, So I'll be in red, you know,
if they can out, if they can be you know,
twelfth or thirteenth in the Big Ten next season. I
think that's a really good year Northwestern based on the
Washington who knows, they could be even higher. They Martinelli's
is a really good plays a potential All Big Ten
(36:06):
first team player, So I think they'll be all They'll
be fun. They're always fun to watch. I mean, again,
not fun to play against, I think for a lot
of Big Ten programs, but I think the way they play,
they play the right way and they do maximize their talent.
So yeah, I mean, are you you're looking at Michigan
and Purdue battling it out there though for the top
spot in the league, you know, in the season.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I think that's the most safest to answer.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I am pretty high on Iowa to maybe surprise at
the top, but it's it's probably a little too bold
for this stage.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Want to see what it looks like a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
But but yeah, and I think I think Michigan's really
deep and coming off of a great year with enough
back and then obviously produce speaks for itself with their
you know, their guard big man Combo in full swing.
They were already the number one I think point guard
big man Combo in college basketball last year, and they're
both back Coffin ran And and Smith, so.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Kind of has to be depicted. They're like a shoe
in one seed for bracketology.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
But at the same time, I don't think they're the
most athletic team in the country, and I don't think
they're completely unbeatable, but there are a lot of teams
for double play that will they'll just wipe them off
the floor because they're so organized and they're so disciplined,
like they did with I think back to that McNee
matchup in the second round last year, just how quickly
(37:24):
that was over because they were just so much more organized,
and they took advantage of, you know, in those first
ten minutes in the game, they took advantage of about
ten to.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Twelve three layups.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
They'll have a lot of games like that where teams
are just way underprepared. I think the real wildcard is
maybe Illinois with this upside talent throwing Stoyokovich in there,
bringing bossball back, obviously playing an electric style that can
you know, they could put ninety on you any night.
Illinois might be the real wildcard of the league to
(37:55):
maybe go from you know, I'll probably project them around
four through so, but they could surprise everybody and win it.
And they also could you know, if things go sideways,
they could fall down to sit seventh, eighth, or ninth.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
So I think that's the team to really pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, I mean, throwing all these teams into these conferences
now makes it even harder to make the projections. And
you throw in the you know, we have a Dylan
and Burkehrt and I every year we do the preseason.
We extended to the top forty rankings last year for
players in the league enduring the year, and it was
we didn't even have John Tanji on our preseason rankings.
(38:33):
It's like probably nobody had them on his rankings. But
that just kind of tells you the how difficult it
is with all this player movement, guys being injured, guys
moving up a level, It's really hard to project how
players are gonna perform. That makes it more fun. I
think it makes it more unpredictable. It gives you maybe
a little bit more hope going into the season that
something crazy could happen, but it's also just really a
(38:53):
crapshoot and I think, you know, obviously, Purdue I think
deserves to be picked near the top, and they're the
safest pick. But I'm just excited to see as to
how some of these new coaches and all this new
all these new players adapted league. I think it'll be
a really fun season. Before we kind of wrap up,
I wanted to ask you, obviously you're still doing things
with your site, bracketeer dot org. You've been doing things
(39:16):
with Phil sixty eight, I understand, but you're also involved
with the Trilly Donovan project Basket under Review. How's that?
I noticed you had a written piece on there earlier
this week. How's that going? And you know where else
can listeners to the podcast continue to check out your work?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, no, it's it's been a blast so far.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
We just got started on technically July first, but it's
been in the works for you know, probably since the
end of last season.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And honored to be a part of it.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
There's just tremendous talent on their three man weave are
doing doing their stuff, intermingling with different podcasts, plus they
have their own show. Emon Brennan's got his own show
that drops. I think every Monday, I'll probably be in
the podcas Cast World. But then starting when the season starts,
and in the meantime, I'm just gonna do a couple
(40:06):
articles a month on Unique.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
We're calling it the landscape.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Because that's really where I think I bring the most
value just talking about college basketball from a three hundred
and sixty fourteen lens instead of one or two leagues
or five power leagues.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
And so yeah, appreciate you checking that out.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
This week and next week, we basically looked back at
the twenty twenty two hiring cycle and that's leading into
next week's article for the twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Basically, the point is how much pressure is there in
this new college basketball world for a coach entering year three?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
And more more than just the pressure part, you know,
what is all at stake at these given places, because
it's very fascinating to me. Some places it's like you've
got four to five years to just figure it out,
so it doesn't mean as much. Other places, there's clear
indicators that it could be this year or you're done,
and just looking back at that twenty twenty two blast,
we saw eight guys get let go last year, so
(41:07):
it's just really good information and data and ways to
also give coaches that are under heralded some credit.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
So thanks.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
I had a few guys reach out, a few head
coaches reach out saying thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
So anyway, it's just really cool to be a part
of it.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
The whole point of the truly donovant platform it's called
basket under review dot com is to basically highlight some
of these more you know, less heralded but amazing college
basketball analysts and you know journalists, I guess for both
articles and podcasts, and I think it's just gonna get
(41:41):
bigger and bigger as we go. So that also attaches
to his discord channel, where I think some of your
audience probably will be involved, where they have all sorts
of rumors and recruiting news and any kind of behind
the scenes I'm handling scheduling and bracketology stuff. And then
later in February, Em and Brennan and I would do
bubble Watch and Bracketology podcasts once a week, So that
(42:04):
should be kind of cool to combine his infamous or
famous bubble Watch call him that he's been doing forever,
and then my bracketology stuff, so I'm super excited about
that when Field of sixty eight, you know, been doing
the bracketology show with them since the beginning. Nothing changing
there that we'll get back in January, and also doing
(42:24):
their mid major show. If anybody pays attention to those
leagues on the Indiana audience, check that out. We'll be
doing that actually every Thursday live for the first time.
A lot of mid major leagues play Thursday nights. There's
not a lot of high major games, so cool thing
to check out as you get ready for Thursday night
action in those various leagues. And then otherwise, bracketeer dot
(42:45):
org alex is the foundation. It's always centered around our
big tournament in March, so you know, all continue to
do the forecast there and also all the scheduling information
can be found there as well. So thanks for everybody
for abably to support with that.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, I've got it bookmarked every year, like for the
Big ten schedules, but this year the Indiana one, we
kind of knew all the big games and then they
just dropped all the bye games at once, so it
wasn't like previous years you mentioned like maybe one of
the assistant coaches kind of handled the scheduling for Indiana
this year, so they I guess they kind of kept
everything under wraps and there weren't a lot of leaks
(43:23):
on those by games that those are usually At least
in the years past, it'd be like we'd get like
one one a week for there for like all summer,
and then all of a sudden, we know all the
games and then they'd announced it. This year, they just
kind of went a little bit earlier gave us all
the games and that was kind of out worked. So
if you get a chance to go over to rock
O site and he's got a I don't know, I
know you have SEC in Big ten, so far enough
(43:43):
you've had any other leagues besides those Big twelve.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Big twelve came out today as we record them. So
timing on that question, Okay, Well, we'll have the bye
by the first week of August. The other two power
leagues will be available as well with the ACC in
the Big East.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
So are most of these Power fives done with scheduling
like for the most part now or is there still
some holes to be filled? In here and there.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, there's a chunk that are done. There's a chunk
that are still looking for one maybe two big games.
So I'm actually still working on a couple.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
In fact one, if we get it our way, we'd
come to Indianapolis.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
So stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
And then you know, and then I think I think
it's down to like two dates or less or they're
completely done at most places.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
So you saw Indiana.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Notre Dame, for example, are completely done, Marquette's done, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
So I think Purdue was the first one done.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Weren't that Purdue was the first one? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
So a lot of your in state rivals slash friends
are are pretty wrapped up. But yeah, just to comment
on your point about Indiana this year, I think, you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
Kind of random for me.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
If I have something that overlaps with them, then I
kind of get all of it. It's not like they
tried to hide it from me or anything. But if
if I have nothing to offer them, I usually don't
reach out. So that's kind of what happened this year.
So we'll see if we can do something more next year.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Good deal, Well, Roco, thanks again for the time. Good
luck with all the various endeavors. We'll be making sure
to follow you every step of the way. Thanks for
taking the time this week. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Likewise, yeah, appreciate all your work as well.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Thanks for having me on absolutely. If you enjoy a
podcasts on the Brink. As I mentioned at the top,
please leave us the rating and review over on Apple Podcasts,
leave us at five star rating over on Spotify, and
we'll be back soon with another episode or podcast on
the Brain.
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the Brink.
It's Friday, July twenty fifth. College troops probably not top
of mind for a lot of fan bases throughout the country,
but Indiana basketball it's three hundred and sixty five days
a year. Good to be back for a third straight
week with an episode of podcasts on'll. Before we get
to today's guests, wanted to ask, if you have a
(00:38):
moment and you enjoy the show, please leave us a
rating and a review over on Apple Podcasts. Leave us
a five star rating on Spotify. That helps more people
who might be searching for college basketball podcasts ie Basketball
podcast discover the show. So we do appreciate that support.
This week's episode. Good friend of the show Roco Miller.
He was on back in the spring before we knew
what was going to happen with the Indiana coaching situation.
(01:00):
At that point, I think we had some discussion about
the Indiana bubble case for the tournament. Turns out the
Hoosiers didn't make the tournament, but we already knew at
that point that a new coach was going to be
brought in. Hoosiers bring in Darren Devrees, who Rocko is
familiar with covering him a little bit during his time
(01:21):
at Drake and Rocco. I like to have him on
because he just kind of has a lot of insight
in a lot of different areas of college basketball scheduling,
and we do a lot of ton of work with
mid majors bracketology. So we're just gonna bounce around and
have a fun conversation here on a Friday in July. Rocco,
welcome back to the show. How you doing. Also for
(01:43):
those of you watching us on YouTube, you may notice
he's kind of here in a coffee shop, maybe an
uncommon location, but having some work done at his house
and didn't want to have too much noise. So if
you hear any jostling or noise in background, if you're
just listened to the audio version, Rocko's safe. He's just
(02:04):
in a just in a coffee shop here. How you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Rocco audio comes through well for the audio listeners.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Always get to be back on with you, Alex. Things
are going well overall, working on a lot. In fact,
it's kind of crazy to me, but sometimes I sit
back and now we're July twenty fifth, feels like it
was just the final four for me because things get
super busy each day with numerous phone calls and trying
(02:35):
to make things happen schedule wise. You know, I try
to play a hand in all thirty one league scheduling.
In some cases it's a lot heavier, like leagues like
the Missouri Valley where Darian Devrees started in.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Twenty nineteen as a head coach.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And you know, because they need the most help, right
they get stuck and teams don't want to play them.
And over all, so originally this all started, we're trying
to help those teams get large opportunities. As we found
out in these last couple of selection Sundays, it's.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Not so easy for them to get bids at all.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
And and yeah, and based on Indiana where they where
they were.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Last year, at least it's a fresh start. Obviously frustrating.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I thought they certainly did more than North Carolina and
Texas to get involved, to be included, I should say,
for the tournament. But I think we all knew they
were right there on the cutoff, and turns out there
like the first or second team out. But fresh start here,
and I think everybody's gonna love watching the way Darien
Devriese coaches endgame strategically and uses his different pieces, So
(03:39):
I'm excited for the Hoosiers.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, the scheduling stuff, and we send direct messages back
and forth on Twitter in the summer. I'm always asking like,
what are you hearing from an IU perspective, And I
think in years past you had some nuggets. Maybe not
as much this year because it seemed like with Indiana,
we kind of knew some of the bigger games that
they were gonna have on their schedule and then they
just dropped the non conference schedule all at once. The
(04:02):
scheduling piece fascinates me from the standpoint of a lot
of programs do things differently, So I'm curious, like, at
a high level your role in terms of trying to
help facilitate schedules around the country, what do you do
in kind of what are maybe some of the challenges
from the high major perspective and then also from the
mid and the low major perspective.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, it's a little bit of everything. But I think
for me, like these last four or five cycles, I've
started heavily with the event space. Several events are searching
for teams at all levels. Obviously, it starts at the
Players Era now with the eighteen or so teams that
are going there, and then that's really diminished the marketplace
(04:48):
for power fives. Like you'll see the Maui Invitational field
this year. They do have Texas and NC State and USC,
but it's not nearly the names that you're used to
seeing with teams like Washington State State, Arizona State going there.
Battle for Atlanta, you could say the same thing really
took a step back with you know, two American Conference
(05:09):
teams in that this year and only holding onto a
handful of power fives in their event, and it trickles
down from there. So with the model that we've all
been playing by the rules with in the ns doa A,
it's been either the twenty eight regular games plus three
in your event or the twenty nine plus two in
your event, and that's how teams can get up to
(05:30):
their thirty one games. But then there's several schools like
if they're not playing the Players Era, they can leverage
their event for different opportunities. So like in Indiana's case,
it's not too uncommon. We've got a few examples of
this around the country. They'll play a Marquee game with Marquette.
Build an MTE around that. Indiana gets Milwaukee at home
(05:51):
and Marquette gets Little Rock at home, and that game
in Chicago will help generate some NIL dollars. At least
that's the plan when it got when it got put together.
You'll see that with Huisville and Cincinnati this year. You'll
see it with Texas A and M and Florida State
this year. So there's a lot of different ways to
skin the mt CAT these days, and that's really kind
(06:11):
of changed the way the marketplace works. And then the
rule is for those a little bit unfamiliar with it,
each team can only play in one event unless you
play in Hawai Whwa I can play in multiple So
there's just this huge cat and mouse game that goes
on for several months. It's still going on today on
(06:32):
July twenty fifth, for some teams to who's going where
do they have one yet?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Are they playing in one? Can we go get them?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
And if you can believe it, there's still a couple
events I'm helping with that need a couple of teams.
So the phone calls never stop, even just within that
one little bubble of games that you find for the schedule.
I think where I'm different than pretty much anybody else
out there doing scheduling is when I talk to staffs
at any level, at the power five level all the
(07:01):
way down to the very low major level, is I'm
doing a full more of a consulting level approach. We're
talking about all the games in November and December, how
the puzzle pieces fit together. You know, if you're playing
a couple of hard games in a row, do you
build an.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Easy game in between?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
You know, things of that nature, right, so that there's
a lot of logic and predictability within that. And so
it's helped me kind of learn different ways to go
about a schedule and different things I can offer to
a program that would make sense. You know, I basically
kind of act as a filter for the staffs before
(07:40):
even presenting them an option.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I think, I think I help.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Them that way where we're not wasting each other's time.
And then you would be surprised. But even on games
like you know, it didn't really happen for Indiana this
year because they're a brand new staff and projected in
the forties, I think on Torvik, but everybody's looking at
that stuff every day and scheduled, and so I think
for them they were able to get the teams like
(08:04):
linden Wood and Alabama and m and between.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Cook in Chicago State.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Everybody's going to overlook those games, maybe even give in
India a little bit of a hard time for not
playing tougher teams. But in scheduling, those are like some
of the teams that are really really hard to get
with a heavy price tag. And there's a ton of
competition for them too. So all of it's pretty fascinating,
you know, to be involved with that.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Day to day. Why is it.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That those teams are hard to get even though their
ranks so low in some of the metrics.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, well, I think they know what they're worth, and
I think they know that they're both they're looking at
the same data as the high majors are looking at.
And so you know, for example, I talked to a
Swax school last night and they will not even take
a phone call if the offer's not at least one
hundred thousand in guarantee money.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And you know, I basically told them, I don't blame you.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
You should be probably getting that because power fives right now,
whether it's the SEC to Big ten, to ACC even
Big East and H and Big twelve. They're all able
to pay that the going rates probably between one hundred
and twenty for this year or so. Yeah, so they
know what they're worth. So basically, if you're Chicago State,
(09:15):
you can call everybody around you and and get the
money you need. Uh and then you just got to
slot in the dates like it's tetris tetris.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
So it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Let me ask you one question because you mentioned the
Players only it's at the Players Festival thing that's in
Vegas kind of right, and you mentioned it's impact on
Mali and the Battle for Atlantis. I mean, the Indiana
was in the Battle for Atlantis last year. I know
there's been talk of maybe a return in the future
(09:48):
to going back to Mali. Is this just kind of
a you know, maybe a one or two three year
thing where these events are maybe down or is this
something that you foresee, like as a long term problem
for events like Battle for Atlantis and Malley And are
they doing anything with those events to maybe try to
make themselves more attractive to these teams so that they
(10:10):
can prop themselves up back in the future. Because you
think about the future. You know, I've been watching Malley
for since I was a kid. It's been a great event,
and then obviously Battle for Atlantis more recent, but in
the last you know, five to ten years, it's become
one of the staples too of that Thanksgiving week college
basketball fans tuning into those And now you have this
this deal in Las Vegas, which I'm not saying it's
(10:32):
a bad thing for the sport by any means. You
get all those great teams together, but it seems like
it's maybe diminishing these these events, as you said, And
is there any hope to kind of get those things
back in better standing in the future.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Well, that's a terrific segue kind of into the next
chapter of scheduling, which begins with the twenty twenty six
twenty seven season, and it's I think CBS has written
a piece about it, but it's been known to in
the business since at least March, maybe since January that
we're going to go to thirty two games regardless of
(11:05):
if you're in an event or not, starting next year.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And so, you know, I think on the surface, a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Of people are reacting to like that's the end of
events don't mean needs to flay them anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
What are these companies going to do?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
But I also think there's another way to think about
it to where it actually opens more doors for teams
to get their thirty two games.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
One of the key factors at least for next.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Year we'll see if this changes over the years, is
the calendar's not changing, So you know, why wouldn't you
max out your thirty two games for most programs they're
going to And with the calendar not changing, you're adding
an extra game. So how are you going to do
that in November and December when we only have about
seven weeks? Most schools only have six because they have
finals to toy around with. And one of the ways
(11:52):
you can do that is you can come to these destinations. Obviously,
the players Era is not going anywhere to paying a
million dollars a team show up, so that's that's certainly
not going anywhere. And I think at places like Maui
in Atlantis now, and you know we're talking even with
places like.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
The Cancun Challenge and and uh.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Stuff popping up in Aruba, Cayman Islands, UH stuff in Florida.
So theoretically we can set these up now on any
given weekend.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
They don't necessarily have to be Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Now, I think the bigger ones, like you mentioned Maui
and Battle for Atlantis, they can actually make a little
bit of a comeback because even if a team is
signed up for the Players ERA, there's nothing to stopping
them from going and playing in Maui or Atlantis unless
the dates are the same, then of course they can't
play in both. But if you spread these dates around, uh,
you can actually have h You can play in as
(12:46):
many of these as you want, and you can show
up and the way I'm introducing it, and we'll see
ultimately it'll be up to the owners and organizers set
of set events. But my idea would be just get
get those locations locked in for four to five days.
A team can come down and play once. They could
play three, they can play two, So it doesn't you know.
(13:09):
I think for the fan, we all want to see
a bracket and a natural you know like that. Now
we Battle for Atlantis have always been, but that's already
been starting to go away kind of across most events
you see, like what Vegas has, it's just a lineup
of games each day, and I think from talking to
enough power fives in the last three months, that's pretty
much what you're gonna start seeing.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
But I think on the on the flip.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Side, the good news is you can still get a
couple of games in multiple destinations, which would be really
exciting for fans and kind of help save the events.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So that's the lass half full outlook for the future.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Now we have to see how the teams behave from
here on, how much they want to take on.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Is this bad news for the possibility of getting like
more home and home games potentially in the non conference
of the season between like major programs, because obviously Indiana
Kentucky are gonna be playing the next couple of years,
or some neutral games sprinkled in there. But you mentioned
(14:10):
the ability that these teams can now go playing multiple events.
I'm also thinking they're also going to want some home
buy games sprinkled in there. So it makes me wonder
do some of these marquee games with major programs home
and homes, do those get squeezed out as time goes on.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
You know, at at Indiana's level, I don't think so,
because I think they've figured out a way to generate
a lot of revenue with local Marquee games, whether that's
a home and home, whether that's a game at the
United Center like Marquette this year or in game Bridge
with Louisville this year, those are big time games.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
They're gonna sell out. It's all about business.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
And dollars at this point in college sports, as you know,
and so there's there's they're gonna have like a bunch
of options, but the top options will always be which
ones can bring revenue back into their program and and help,
you know, do every anything you need to do, get
players pay, you know, pay for your program, et cetera.
So I don't think those are going anywhere. Those have
(15:07):
proven to be very highly successful at Indiana's level at
least now. I think when you go down to like
a Missouri Valley level and they're having a hard time
getting games, this format could actually help those types of
teams egg get a harder schedule, but be be able
to get a couple different weekend scheduled where they can
play two to three games in a weekend and if
(15:28):
they need fourteen non conference games, you know, they can
knock out six in a matter of.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Six days between two different weekends.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
So I think that's where it's going to be pretty
popular to go to maybe multiple destinations, but a team
like Indiana, of course, or any Marquee Power.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Five team, they'll have no no shortage of options, shifting gears.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You know, you mentioned before we hit record here that
you covered Darren Devrees summit at Drake. I think you
said you went to at least one Drake game a
year for several seasons in a row. Just you know,
you what's it been like maybe to kind of watch
his progression in the business. Obviously, spend a long long
(16:09):
time at Creighton as an assistant coach under under McDermott,
gets his opportunity at Drake, you know, goes to West
Virginia for a year. Now at Indiana. That's a pretty significant,
you know, climb in the profession from where he started
out at Drake and where that program was to now
being here at Indiana. Just I guess maybe a two
(16:29):
part question, are you surprised at all that he's been
able to rise this much this quickly? And what are
maybe your impressions of him as a coach and his
chances to succeed in Bloomington.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, I mean, I think I'm not too surprised.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
I'm a little surprised he only was at West Virginia
for one year, especially a year where you know, they
ultimately got locked out of the tournament.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Much like Indiana too much chagrin.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Of the Mountaineer faithful, but obviously you get an opportunity
to work at a place at Indiana, it's one of
the best premier jobs in the country. Certainly not for everybody,
but I think with Devreze's temperament, I mean, he's a
super humble guy. He's never going to be a pump
his chest ego type of coach.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
He's a player's first coach. He's extremely organized. You know.
One of the things that impressed me.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
You know, he was an assistant at Creighton for twenty years,
and so he applied for the Drake job three times
over those twenty years. It was his dream job, being
from the area, and finally got it in twenty nineteen.
I was very intrigued by that because at the time
Drake was really down his program towards the.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Bottom of the in the valley. I had just, for whatever.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Reason, kind of always wanted them to be better because
Northern Iowa's had so many great teams and then of
course you got the two big of Iowa schools. I
was spending some time in Des Moines during that era
as well of my life, so I wanted to see
a good team. So when I got to see him
that first year in twenty nineteen, I was blown away
just by how organized they were. If you know, they
(18:08):
were running basically McDermott McDermott style creating offense back at
a time when not nearly like a lower percentage of
tool for doing that. Still you see it everywhere now,
like with the Alabama's, the Byus.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Et cetera.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
But he's kind of had those principles since day one
at Drake, and then I think by twenty twenty three
he was able to really figure out defense and how
to recruit his roster for run protection and be organized defensively.
Drake had a top forty defense in that twenty twenty
three year when they won the Valley that year, and
(18:43):
of course followed that up with the top seventy five
defense the year after, mixed in with the top forty offense.
It's really really hard to do in this era of
college basketball at that level. And then I think when
West Virginia was healthy last year, there was no question
they were not only a tournament team, but probably trending
towards the top six to seven seed. Struggled without degrees
(19:05):
of course after those first eight games, but Jabon Small
was absolutely tremendous, and you could certainly make the argument
they did enough to get included. So I've been impressed
with basically all the different adversity they've faced, you know,
through those six years at Drake and last year at
West Virginia. You know, they came up with a huge
win at fog Allen last year and I think, you know,
(19:29):
shocked everybody. They had a game against Iowa State. I
think that sticks out the most to me last year
when they allowed zero fast.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Break points, zero transition points.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
And so that's one of the areas of defense he's
mastered these last three years. You'll see that West Virginia
had a top fifteen adjusted defense, and transition defense is
one of the hardest things to teach in college basketball,
and I thought West Virginia for a good chunk in
season was elites at that and if Indiana can get
to that level, they'll win a lot of games because
(20:00):
in the Big Ten, as you know, Alex so.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Many of these games are won on the margins, and
so team there's.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Enough teams like Illinois and you know they'll be at
Michigan and the list pups bond in the league USC
where there's teams want to get out and run, He'll
he'll have a great plan to slow that trend.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Take the transition gave away effectively.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Uh. We saw how amazing Iyowa of States offense was
last year, and I was still blown away that Iowa
State did not have a single fast.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Breakpoint in their upset loss against West Virgreaba. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I you know, I'm curious kind of you're a little
bit more on your thoughts on his temperament because you
mentioned that, you know, that's a big deal with the
Indiana job because kind of going back to Crean and
there was obviously that was up and down situation if
things are going well. You know, his personality was really
actually pretty good for the job because he you know,
(20:52):
he was able to sell the job and was out
there engaging with the fan base when things didn't go
as well. I don't think he handled that all that well.
Archie to me, came in with the pedigree as being
a really sawid coach, but he didn't really want to
engage the fans in any meaningful way, and it kind
of just seemed like he just wanted to coach the
team and not do anything else. And then Mike Woodson,
(21:14):
you know, he didn't really do anything extra beyond just
the bare minimum of you know, in terms of the
outside stuff that it takes to do in Indiana. The Freese,
I think is going to be interesting because you know,
you mentioned him being a humble guy. I think the
thing that's been most encouraging for me. And I've only
met him once and had a chance to sit down
(21:35):
with him last month in his office and talked for
thirty five to forty minutes. But he wanted to talk
basketball like at a very detailed level, and that's not
something that the Indiana coach has wanted to do really
recently the last couple of ten years. So that was
interesting to me. And you mentioned him being humble. That
(21:58):
was really the kind of the vibe he gave off
to me as well as is he just seemed like
a normal A lot of these coaches just have this
persona like as they're not like approachable, as like a
regular human being, a regular person but he just seemed
like a normal everyday guy. Maybe that's because he was
an assistant coach for so long and grinded his way
up through the through the ranks, and you know, he
(22:18):
maybe never expected to be the coach in Indiana, but
he seems genuinely appreciative for the opportunity and just really
I don't want to stay happy to be there because
he obviously earned the opportunity and he's gonna, I think,
do a really good job. But just his personality, based
on other coaches that I've interacted with over a long
period of time, just just was a little bit different.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, And I pretty much agree with everything you said there.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I think based on Indiana's recent past with those three
head coaches before him, this will be a nice change,
I think. And I also think it's somewhat required and
probably was part of the search thought process right for
the you know, the administrator and board members that made
the decision to hire coach Devrees. You know, he he
(23:06):
is a very laser focused guy, as you kind of
hinted at there, and really is an XS and o's
just hoop junkie. I ran into him at rock Hill
atidis event about a week and a half ago, and
the same guy didn't seem any different.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
He could have had a Drake shirt on Orgon Indiana.
Sure it's the same person. He's not any different. So
that tells me, you know, the job's not changing him.
And and you.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Know, he had limited to little expectations at West Virginia
last year, and really, like I said, when they were
full strength, I mean they were top fifteen team for
a long time, at.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Least in those first eight weeks of the season.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
And you know, if you get a healthy Devres this
year and all the pieces you brought in, I think
the kid from you know, Troy is tremendous. He's got
a chance to be a big time player in this
in the Big ten level. He proved that, I think
in the NCAAT against Kentucky and so so yeah, I
think they're just going to continue to improve and get
better throughout the year. They might they might have a
couple of results early that fans aren't gonna love, but
(24:09):
they're going to learn from that and.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
They're going to continue to grow.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
And I think in college basketball that's the hardest thing
to find is guys who just stick with it and
keep getting better.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
And I think it's also shows up in the types
of kids he brings in.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I mean, I've gotten to know Sam Alexis both when
he was with Michigan and Alabama.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That kid's a tremendous kid.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Pretty much everybody I know of on the roster that
I've either interacted with or or talked to their head
coach about really really high IQ basketball and just a
relatable kid to you know, easily for them to get
along with others, not going to create trouble. So so
I feel like that was done intentionally as well.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
So even if you know.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Talent wise and experience wise, they come across as middle
of the PAC Big ten and forty second in the country.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
You saw with Forda last year. The teams that jell
can really really push that.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Envelope all the way to the top ten if it
all comes together correctly. So I'm not going to boldly
predict that, but I think it is all possible.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, The.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Recruiting waters that he's going to be swimming in now,
obviously from a high school recruiting perspective, are going to
be a little different than obviously for sure Drake, and
probably a little bit higher too than what was expected
it was Virginia, but I think he did a really
good job putting together a coaching staff with experience recruiting
those type of players, and so far they seem to
(25:34):
be with the twenty six class getting mentioned with a
lot of guys who are highly ranked, and so we'll
see how that obviously develops. There's still the portal out there,
so I'm not sure exactly get the balance in terms
of how the portal and high school will be recruited
moving forward, but they do seem to have a pretty
good start in terms of making contacts with high school
kids and you know, having a chance to put together
a solid twenty six class. But I want to focus
(25:56):
more specifically on this upcoming season because you look at
the roster on paper and you say, well, there's there's
maybe not a surefire NBA guy in this team, but
there's a lot of solid pieces and that maybe will
take some people into in the in the preseason saying
this is maybe a you know, eleventh or twelfth best
team in the Big Ten. But the chance to outperform
(26:19):
that expectation to me seems real based on what he
was able to do last season with West Virginia, with
I don't want to say a similar situation, but he
did have to turn the roster over completely this year
in Indiana. I had to probably take more portal guys
than he would would want to in a normal cycle,
just out of necessity because the whole roster was gone.
And some of these guys are making the jump up
(26:41):
from the mid major to the high major level, and
we don't always know how that's going to translate. But
I'm just kind of curious for your thoughts on this
roster as a whole. You mentioned Tayton Connorway as a
guy you like. Sambalexis was a guy that won a
national championship at Florida last season, so he's got that
experience of playing on the biggest stage. Devrees in as
a transfer to you know, people forget he's a two
(27:03):
time player of the Year in the Missouri Valley. That's
that's not an easy thing to do. He was a
really good player last year too before he got hurt.
Lamar Wilkerson was outstanding at sam Houston State last year.
One of the best three point shooters in the country.
You can kind of just go down the list. All
these guys have some accomplishments at the lower level, and
you wonder how it's going to translate to the high
(27:24):
major level. But I think the chance to outperform expectations
is definitely there if things go well.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, I agree, And like I said, I think the
biggest thing is is these.
Speaker 4 (27:33):
Guys will you know, be very easy easily to It'll
be easy for them to gel just as personalities, and
I think I think the key will be you know,
Ken connor Way and Wilkerson.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
You know, they're probably the most likely to be just
those alpha dog point guard or shooting guard level guys
that want the ball in their hands. They obviously, if
Tucker Devreeze knock on Wood was healthy throughout the year,
you've got a guy who can go get you a
bucket at any time. That's a difference in this roster
of course, to be able to find a guy who
(28:08):
can close games out late.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
But I think Connorway is that good.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Too, at least be able to get to the foul
line and or create for somebody else. I think with
Reed Bailey, with him being near forty two percent at
Davidson with a pretty good sample size, you know, I
think he'll play outside quite a bit, but he'll make
defenses pay with dragging bigs that maybe don't cover the
perimeter as well, and obviously Alexis has experienced, but I
(28:34):
think it's going to be piece mail in the front court.
Obviously not the tallest team in the big team in
the Big Ten by any means, So that's the part I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Kind of curious to see.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I know Josh Harris was a rebounding menace at North
Florida that they were well documented last year for the
opening week of the season when they upset Georgia Tech
in South Carolina with some crazy rebounding numbers.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
He was a big part of that.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
But you know, their season fell apart quickly after that,
and you've got Josiah Miles from that roster as well.
Much different player, but bigger score. I think the shooting
is like, like you pointed out as there. I just think,
you know, what they're gonna need to do is figure out,
you know, how to divvy up the front floor, how
(29:16):
to get stops.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
You know, teams like.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Michigan and Purdue or Gigantic, So it's like, how's that
going to look.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
We'll have to see.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
But I think some of those schematic principles that I
hinted at earlier, whether it be transition defense, perimeter defense
was actually eighth in the country for West Virginia es Shoal.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Those types of things can move the needle.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
One of the things you know, living by Saint Mary's
that I count a lot when I'm watching games is
how many stops you call them, call them kills or
turkeys in practice a team can get. I think Indiana's
gonna be one of the better teams that that, just
based on the system they've been preaching both at West
Virginia and Drake these last four years. I think that
(29:58):
carries over many of the same staff members still with Darien.
So I'm excited to see what it looks like. And
I think, you know, when it comes to like bubble
talk and in or out and all that, these types
of coaches and winning on the margins, having a go
to bucket guy late in games, that can be the
(30:19):
difference sometimes with being a tournament team or not. And
I think it's all vibing pretty well for Indiana on paper.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Kind of switching gears here a little bit. There's obviously
a busy offseason for coach coaching turnover in the Big ten.
Four new coaches. We've obviously talked about the reason. I'm
just kind of curious for your high level thoughts on
the other new coaches in the league. Buzz Williams going
over from Texas A and M to Maryland. Ben McCollum
obviously leaves the res old school Drake and goes to Iowa.
(30:50):
And then Nico Medved going from Colorado State to Minnesota.
Just your your thoughts on each of those and the
fit and maybe I don't know, if you want to
go on a limb, which of those of those three
HighRes did you like the best of those of the bunch?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, good questions. I think for me, I'm a huge
mcfollham guy.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Not to praise Drake too much, but I think his
track record speaks for himself. If you followed Northwest Missouri
State at all Division two, he was basically by far
the legend and best coach of Division two. In fact,
energied at Texas Tech I think a few years back,
ended up staying and then took Drake. I think that
(31:32):
surprised a lot of people, but it was a good
fit for him because he brought four of his starters
with him. To Drake last year and we saw how
that looked. Just an amazing thirty win season. Bennett Stetz,
of course, is not only the best player in the
Missouri Valley last year, but he was one of the
best players, you know, by all the different efficiency metrics
in the country. I got to see their win against
(31:54):
Kansas State and Kansas City last December, and I think,
you know, just with him at Iowa and some some
of those other blue guys coming over, they got the
Robert Warris as best player in Alvaro he was just
playing in FIBA, but just the ability for him to
make things happen in Bennett's six as an extra coach
on the floor.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
They're just gonna find ways to win.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
It's gonna annoy the rest of the Big Ten, Like
I think when Indiana plays them, you guys are gonna
be so annoyed playing them. But I just think Iowa's
got a very high ceiling because they just they won't
back down no matter what. They're gonna win ugly. They
won't blow a lot of teams out. But just look
at what they did at Drake. I think I think
there's enough in that in that roster to do it
(32:37):
at this level, so he's probably the one I'm the
highest on. I think after that you probably do have
to go to Buzz Williams just for those track record. Uh,
he just finds ways to win. He's got some of
his guys in there. Of course, he's got Miles.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Rice over there, who is underwhelming at Indiana.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
But I think with Buzz maybe he has his redemption
season and I don't know, I think Maryland kind of
projects a bubble team, but again with Buzz's track record,
a really good opportunity to surprise and maybe move up
a few spots from where they'll be picked. I really
like the fit, of course for Nico medfit at Minnesota.
(33:14):
Now the roster you could argue probably not quite tournament
level on paper yet, but they have a really good
staff and I think they should be able to build on,
you know, any of the ceilings that Ben Johnson hit,
so overall, the GOP for programs in better hands. Nico's
a great coach. He's done it at three different schools
so far. Now he's in his dream job, so they'll
(33:37):
be taking that very seriously. And we've we've covered degrees
that that missed.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
No, that's it I'm curious, like, from a bracketology perspective,
start like starting out the season, is there any Big
ten team you look at and say, this team's probably
not going to be in the conversation at all the
whole year. I mean, the one I was looking at,
like off the top of my head, Penn State seems
like they're really kind of fallen off just based on
the roster turnover. Is there anyone else that comes to
(34:04):
mind and says you say, well, this is probably going
to be a transition or rebuilding year.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, I would say Penn State's kind of the obvious one.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
But I'd also say I have some pretty big concerns
about Rutgers. You know, they had they had two you know,
top five picks last year and some pretty good portal
ads I would add ad as well last year, and
still really struggled. Now they're you know, they're inserting a
couple more freshmen that are less heralded. You know, I
(34:33):
saw I saw Zmo for Bosnia play a little bit,
but a lot of the European guys will take a
little bit to adjust to Big ten, and there's just
a high level talent.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Threeque Francis have huge numbers at nj A T.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
But I mean that's a huge jump to the Big
Ten from one of the lower leagues in in Division one.
So bu Cannon is maybe the most proven guy from
George Washington. But I'm pretty sure Rutgers will land on
the seventeen spot for me on the projections, and then I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Curious a little. I mean, I never want to doubt
a Chris.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Collins team, but I think, you know, and they do
have Mick Martinelli back, I do think more than likely
Northwestern is projected at more than an IT slash Crown
Tournament level team with.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
A little bit more upside than those those other two
Rutgers in Penn State.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Hey, you talk about though program that is annoying to
play against, and I respect them Northwestern. I mean, yeah,
Collins selfishly, I kind of wanted to see him like
take another job this offseason, just to see what he
could do at a place with more resources, because he
seems like a coach that if he had more talent,
he could really kind of take off. I mean, I
(35:44):
understand that that's home for him now, and that's you know,
he's probably the coach there as long as he wants
to be, but I've always respected what he's been able
to do there, So I'll be in red, you know,
if they can out, if they can be you know,
twelfth or thirteenth in the Big Ten next season. I
think that's a really good year Northwestern based on the
Washington who knows, they could be even higher. They Martinelli's
is a really good plays a potential All Big Ten
(36:06):
first team player, So I think they'll be all They'll
be fun. They're always fun to watch. I mean, again,
not fun to play against, I think for a lot
of Big Ten programs, but I think the way they play,
they play the right way and they do maximize their talent.
So yeah, I mean, are you you're looking at Michigan
and Purdue battling it out there though for the top
spot in the league, you know, in the season.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I think that's the most safest to answer.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I am pretty high on Iowa to maybe surprise at
the top, but it's it's probably a little too bold
for this stage.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Want to see what it looks like a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
But but yeah, and I think I think Michigan's really
deep and coming off of a great year with enough
back and then obviously produce speaks for itself with their
you know, their guard big man Combo in full swing.
They were already the number one I think point guard
big man Combo in college basketball last year, and they're
both back Coffin ran And and Smith, so.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Kind of has to be depicted. They're like a shoe
in one seed for bracketology.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
But at the same time, I don't think they're the
most athletic team in the country, and I don't think
they're completely unbeatable, but there are a lot of teams
for double play that will they'll just wipe them off
the floor because they're so organized and they're so disciplined,
like they did with I think back to that McNee
matchup in the second round last year, just how quickly
(37:24):
that was over because they were just so much more organized,
and they took advantage of, you know, in those first
ten minutes in the game, they took advantage of about
ten to.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Twelve three layups.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
They'll have a lot of games like that where teams
are just way underprepared. I think the real wildcard is
maybe Illinois with this upside talent throwing Stoyokovich in there,
bringing bossball back, obviously playing an electric style that can
you know, they could put ninety on you any night.
Illinois might be the real wildcard of the league to
(37:55):
maybe go from you know, I'll probably project them around
four through so, but they could surprise everybody and win it.
And they also could you know, if things go sideways,
they could fall down to sit seventh, eighth, or ninth.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
So I think that's the team to really pay attention to.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, I mean, throwing all these teams into these conferences
now makes it even harder to make the projections. And
you throw in the you know, we have a Dylan
and Burkehrt and I every year we do the preseason.
We extended to the top forty rankings last year for
players in the league enduring the year, and it was
we didn't even have John Tanji on our preseason rankings.
(38:33):
It's like probably nobody had them on his rankings. But
that just kind of tells you the how difficult it
is with all this player movement, guys being injured, guys
moving up a level, It's really hard to project how
players are gonna perform. That makes it more fun. I
think it makes it more unpredictable. It gives you maybe
a little bit more hope going into the season that
something crazy could happen, but it's also just really a
(38:53):
crapshoot and I think, you know, obviously, Purdue I think
deserves to be picked near the top, and they're the
safest pick. But I'm just excited to see as to
how some of these new coaches and all this new
all these new players adapted league. I think it'll be
a really fun season. Before we kind of wrap up,
I wanted to ask you, obviously you're still doing things
with your site, bracketeer dot org. You've been doing things
(39:16):
with Phil sixty eight, I understand, but you're also involved
with the Trilly Donovan project Basket under Review. How's that?
I noticed you had a written piece on there earlier
this week. How's that going? And you know where else
can listeners to the podcast continue to check out your work?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, no, it's it's been a blast so far.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
We just got started on technically July first, but it's
been in the works for you know, probably since the
end of last season.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And honored to be a part of it.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
There's just tremendous talent on their three man weave are
doing doing their stuff, intermingling with different podcasts, plus they
have their own show. Emon Brennan's got his own show
that drops. I think every Monday, I'll probably be in
the podcas Cast World. But then starting when the season starts,
and in the meantime, I'm just gonna do a couple
(40:06):
articles a month on Unique.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
We're calling it the landscape.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Because that's really where I think I bring the most
value just talking about college basketball from a three hundred
and sixty fourteen lens instead of one or two leagues
or five power leagues.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
And so yeah, appreciate you checking that out.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
This week and next week, we basically looked back at
the twenty twenty two hiring cycle and that's leading into
next week's article for the twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Basically, the point is how much pressure is there in
this new college basketball world for a coach entering year three?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
And more more than just the pressure part, you know,
what is all at stake at these given places, because
it's very fascinating to me. Some places it's like you've
got four to five years to just figure it out,
so it doesn't mean as much. Other places, there's clear
indicators that it could be this year or you're done,
and just looking back at that twenty twenty two blast,
we saw eight guys get let go last year, so
(41:07):
it's just really good information and data and ways to
also give coaches that are under heralded some credit.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
So thanks.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
I had a few guys reach out, a few head
coaches reach out saying thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
So anyway, it's just really cool to be a part
of it.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
The whole point of the truly donovant platform it's called
basket under review dot com is to basically highlight some
of these more you know, less heralded but amazing college
basketball analysts and you know journalists, I guess for both
articles and podcasts, and I think it's just gonna get
(41:41):
bigger and bigger as we go. So that also attaches
to his discord channel, where I think some of your
audience probably will be involved, where they have all sorts
of rumors and recruiting news and any kind of behind
the scenes I'm handling scheduling and bracketology stuff. And then
later in February, Em and Brennan and I would do
bubble Watch and Bracketology podcasts once a week, So that
(42:04):
should be kind of cool to combine his infamous or
famous bubble Watch call him that he's been doing forever,
and then my bracketology stuff, so I'm super excited about
that when Field of sixty eight, you know, been doing
the bracketology show with them since the beginning. Nothing changing
there that we'll get back in January, and also doing
(42:24):
their mid major show. If anybody pays attention to those
leagues on the Indiana audience, check that out. We'll be
doing that actually every Thursday live for the first time.
A lot of mid major leagues play Thursday nights. There's
not a lot of high major games, so cool thing
to check out as you get ready for Thursday night
action in those various leagues. And then otherwise, bracketeer dot
(42:45):
org alex is the foundation. It's always centered around our
big tournament in March, so you know, all continue to
do the forecast there and also all the scheduling information
can be found there as well. So thanks for everybody
for abably to support with that.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, I've got it bookmarked every year, like for the
Big ten schedules, but this year the Indiana one, we
kind of knew all the big games and then they
just dropped all the bye games at once, so it
wasn't like previous years you mentioned like maybe one of
the assistant coaches kind of handled the scheduling for Indiana
this year, so they I guess they kind of kept
everything under wraps and there weren't a lot of leaks
(43:23):
on those by games that those are usually At least
in the years past, it'd be like we'd get like
one one a week for there for like all summer,
and then all of a sudden, we know all the
games and then they'd announced it. This year, they just
kind of went a little bit earlier gave us all
the games and that was kind of out worked. So
if you get a chance to go over to rock
O site and he's got a I don't know, I
know you have SEC in Big ten, so far enough
(43:43):
you've had any other leagues besides those Big twelve.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Big twelve came out today as we record them. So
timing on that question, Okay, Well, we'll have the bye
by the first week of August. The other two power
leagues will be available as well with the ACC in
the Big East.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
So are most of these Power fives done with scheduling
like for the most part now or is there still
some holes to be filled? In here and there.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, there's a chunk that are done. There's a chunk
that are still looking for one maybe two big games.
So I'm actually still working on a couple.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
In fact one, if we get it our way, we'd
come to Indianapolis.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
So stay tuned.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
And then you know, and then I think I think
it's down to like two dates or less or they're
completely done at most places.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
So you saw Indiana.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Notre Dame, for example, are completely done, Marquette's done, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
So I think Purdue was the first one done.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Weren't that Purdue was the first one? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
So a lot of your in state rivals slash friends
are are pretty wrapped up. But yeah, just to comment
on your point about Indiana this year, I think, you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
Kind of random for me.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
If I have something that overlaps with them, then I
kind of get all of it. It's not like they
tried to hide it from me or anything. But if
if I have nothing to offer them, I usually don't
reach out. So that's kind of what happened this year.
So we'll see if we can do something more next year.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Good deal, Well, Roco, thanks again for the time. Good
luck with all the various endeavors. We'll be making sure
to follow you every step of the way. Thanks for
taking the time this week. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Likewise, yeah, appreciate all your work as well.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Thanks for having me on absolutely. If you enjoy a
podcasts on the Brink. As I mentioned at the top,
please leave us the rating and review over on Apple Podcasts,
leave us at five star rating over on Spotify, and
we'll be back soon with another episode or podcast on
the Brain.
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