August 19, 2025 • 40 mins
On this episode, Alex Bozich is joined by Galen Clavio of CrimsonCast to discuss the excitement in Bloomington for IU football this fall and a new era for men's basketball.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcast on the Brink. Tuesday,
August nineteenth. Indiana wraps up its exhibition tour in Puerto Rico.
Last week had a ton of coverage of that on
Inside the Hall. We had Josh pose on for two
episodes down there. Those were very well received episodes. Josh
did a great job of covering the team down there
(00:39):
in Puerto Rico. This week's guest on Podcasts on the
Brink Galen Clavia. Before we get to Galen, one of
my favorite guests to have on the show. Please, if
you haven't done so, please take a minute to leave
us a rating and review over on Apple Podcasts. Leave
us a five star rating over on Spotify. Those watching
on YouTube, subscribe to the channel like the video. I've
noticed the last couple of weeks getting a lot more
(01:01):
likes on our video podcast episodes, so it's always good
to see. So thank you for that support. Continue to
do that, Galen, I was looking back at my notes.
October twenty eighth was your last appearance on this podcast.
We were talking about Indiana's triumph down in Knoxville, Tennessee.
We were thinking what top ten, top fifteen team, and
(01:21):
here we are with another reset of IU basketball. I
guess to start out, first of all, how you doing.
I know you got a lot going on with school
starting next week there in Bloomington and your duties with
the media school, So thanks for taking the time.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, oh great, great doing well. Thank you for having
me on. I can't believe it's been that long. It
feels like it's been It feels like it was not
that long, let's put it that way.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, So, I guess how surprised are you that we're
kind of back at this point now after another four years.
It feels like obviously there was there was nine years
of cream, so that was a longer tenure for an
IU basketball coach, and then we've kind of had these
successive four years for coaches and another reset, and I
feel like some of us maybe kind of fall into
(02:04):
that trap of now there's a new coach and now
there's reason for optimism again, but you don't really know
what's going to happen. I'm just curious your thoughts on
ending up back in this spot and if you're surprised
at all that here we are again.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
If I recall my October appearance last year, I think
we talked quite a bit about how there was Even
though they looked good at Tennessee, there was a big
wait and see aspect because there had been a lot
of trust lost in Mike Woodson and that whole project
because of what had happened in the previous spring. So
(02:37):
I wasn't shocked when it went the way that it
did last year. And I remember talking with some people
before the season and saying, well, if X and Y
round into shape, and if they can integrate Ballo into
the offense, then I think they'll be more competitive than
they were. Unfortunately, it never really happened, and it was
one of those classic I guess you can as much
(03:00):
as you can call a classic Woodson team after only
a four year stint, but it seemed to have a
lot more potential than what actually ended up happening in
real life. And so I think it's more disappointing than
surprising that we're back at this level. And it's again
I think we've burned a lot of bridges, just like
(03:22):
overall in terms of how people view IU basketball, and
that really extends to all different levels, and so it's
an interesting spot to be in inasmuch as last year,
while I would say maybe not as bad feeling as
the previous year was, just as frustrating in a lot
of ways. And you know, it's left us in a
(03:44):
spot where I think for a lot of IU fans
it's like, all right, seriously, we're back at this level again.
And I understand anybody that feels that way at this point.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So last year, maybe going into the season there was
a bit of a distraction because of the football season
was going on. It kind of feels the same way
a little bit this year because there's so much excitement,
even maybe more so excitement at this time of year
going into football because a lot of people didn't know
what to expect with last year's football season. And you know,
the joke's always been football has been something to pass
(04:17):
the time before basketball and Bloomington. It's not really that
way anymore now after just one season of Kurt Signetti.
I'm curious, you know, somebody that lives in Bloomington. You
followed that program, the football program for such a long time,
and you've got students now coming back to campus and Bloomington,
and we're covering football for the first time this year,
and inside obviously not as in depth as we do basketball,
(04:38):
but we are going to add some football coverage and
excited about that. But what's the feeling just that you've
gotten thus far on campus, Just in terms of the
excitement leading into this fall sports season with football.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
It's very high, you know. And this is something that
isn't just limited to campus. It's something that we see
in most of the social media circles. It's certainly something
I hear about when I talk with people, Like, there's
legitimate hype and excitement about IU football, and there should be.
This is one of those programs that, yes, they had
a magic carpet ride last year with the way that
(05:10):
everything went. But where I think this is different is
not only did they retain a lot of the top
players from last year who demonstrated that they were playing
at levels that have led them to be first team
All country. I mean there's like two or three IU
defensive players between Mikhal Kamarad, Angelo Ponds and Aidan Fisher
(05:31):
that are getting ranked among the best in the country.
But they also were able to reload. They went out
and they got Fernando Mendoza quarterback. They went out and
got Pat Coogan to play on the offensive line, and
zen Mkowski, they went out and got Jose Wheeler. I mean,
they've got all these new pieces to go along with
the existing pieces, and it really does feel like a
(05:51):
program has formed, as opposed to a good team, which
is oftentimes historically when you'd see Indiana do well, they'd
culminate in one team that would win seven games and
go to a bowl, and then they would recede and
we'd start to cycle all over again. It doesn't feel
that way right now, and I think a lot of
people have really bought into the idea that this is
(06:14):
a school that now does football, you know, as opposed
to just being purely a basketball school.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
So are you expecting these first couple of games we're
gonna see a full Memorial stadium? I know there's once
the big ten schedule hits, there's going to be the
expectation that the stadium is full. But I remember those
first couple of games early on, you know Kurt Signetti famously,
I think it made a comment about students leaping at
halftime and then that was quickly rectified. Is the expectation
kind of going into these early games that you're going
(06:42):
to see close to full or full Memorial stadium.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I think it's it's going to be a challenge to
get the stadium full for those early games as much
because the hotel logistics are not there in Bloomington. You know,
it's I mean, it's wild out on the streets, so
to speak. If you go look at hotel price is
for that first weekend, it's pretty nuts. And that said,
I still think we'll get close. I think it's about
(07:07):
eight or nine thousand tickets still available for the Old
Dominion game. I'm guessing that we'll get to a stadium
capacities essentially fifty three thousand. I'm guessing we'll get to
forty eight or forty nine, maybe more than that, depending
on what the walk up looks like and what the
weather is that day, which for an opening game against
a non name competitor is pretty darn good. Or IU football,
(07:29):
I think it's we could do some more hotels. If
there's any entrepreneurs out there that would like to try
to open one, I'm happy to go into business with
you on this. But in addition to that, I know
so many of people that come to IU football games
come from out of town. They come from the North
side of India, or they come from Fort Wayne or
they come from the region. It's going to be interesting
(07:50):
watching people get Rea cultured to the idea that they
have to be down there every weekend. I think for
Big Ten games, it's going to be sold out, and
I think, as we saw last year with Nebraska, with Washington,
with Michigan, it's gonna be IU fans in the stands.
That in and of itself is a huge sea change
from what it's been historically, and so the fact that
they would get that close to sellouts in these non
(08:12):
con games is pretty impressive, and I wouldn't be shocked
if one or two of them actually did end up
it sold out or close to it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
A few more football things before we dive into hoops.
But there's been obviously a lot of preseason chatter just
about this whole scheduling debate in college football, and Indiana's
kind of been the focus of some of it. I
think some of that obviously is brought on by kind
of Kurt Signetti not being shy about voicing his opinion.
Also Indiana kind of changing some things around the schedule.
(08:42):
You know. The last year, I think it was that
they got out of the Louisville series this I think
coming up that they've bought out of a series with Virginia.
But the flip side of that is the Big ten's
playing more conference games than the SEC, and so, you know,
depending on how you want to look at it, I
think everyone has maybe an argument that they can make
with this. Where do you kind of come down on
this whole situation in terms of scheduling college football? Does
(09:04):
it need to be something where these conferences kind of
align on the number of conference games that they're going
to play. Does it need to be some equity there?
Or do you think the system is fine as it
is and we can continue to have these arguments in
July and have fun on social media talking about it.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I mean, we can have the arguments. I just what
real incentive is there for any program like Indiana to
play a tough non conference schedule when you play nine
games against Big ten competition. No one's been able to
adequately answer that question. You point to the SEC teams.
The SEC teams play eight SEC teams, and some of
(09:44):
them will play a Power Conference opponent. Many of them
do not, you know, so it's one of the or
if they're playing one, they're playing the dregs of a conference,
and you know, it's one of those deals where the
arguments are not really being done in good faith. And
if you're an SEC partisan, of course you're going to
(10:05):
argue that playing a weak non conference schedule should be disqualifying.
But from my perspective, there's no reason why a Big
Ten team at this point should be engaging in that
unless they have such an overwhelming talent advantage that they
really feel like they need to test themselves. But I'll
note last year Notre Dame ends up in the national
(10:26):
title game, did not play a particularly difficult schedule, and
it clearly didn't have that much of an impact in
terms of their ability to play in the playoffs. So
I'm not sure what playing tough non conference games is
really supposed to give you if it doesn't make a
huge difference in how your team plays, and all it
does is potentially endanger your ability to make a playoff.
Given the criteria that college football uses to bring teams
(10:50):
into the playoff, which is a committee making subjective decisions,
I think Indiana is doing exactly what they should be doing,
and it's hilarious to me that Indiana has gotten the
ire of not just SEC fans, but these national sports
writers who act like some kind of crime against college
football is being committed. And I'm just like, guys, are
you going to talk about Penn State's non conference schedule
(11:12):
this year? Like at all? Go look at that. It's embarrassing.
It doesn't get talked about. Why because Indiana is new
to the ball and there is a real old money mentality,
not just among teams, not just among fans, but among
media that cover college football. It's unfortunate and to me,
it's almost like a fake debate point at this point.
(11:34):
And it probably won't matter anyway in three years because
we'll probably end up in the middle of another round
of realignment. But it is hilarious that Indiana keeps getting
talked about on a daily basis with this, and all
it's doing is getting Indiana in the minds of more people,
which is exactly what you would want out of this
whole process.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, it would have been totally fine last year if
it was Ohio State with the credentials in Indiana, had
people whre have looked at the scores that they that
they beat some of the I think that was the
most frustrating thing. I was you know, watch not covering
the team, but it was interesting because I checked out
some of those early games last year because it was
a new coach and it was a new you know,
(12:13):
a new beginning, and I wanted a chance to see
if it was going to be any different because I've
watched AU football over the years and you kind of
get to that week five or six, it's I got
what we've seen this story before. Well it felt different
from the beginning last year, and it was actually a
really great story, Like a lot of these national writers
could have embraced the fact that there was this Indiana
team that look at the program's history and look at
(12:35):
what it's done over this long period of time, and
it was really just a great story just in terms
of that turnaround and improbable. I mean, I don't have
a list of the most improbable college football seasons in
the last twenty twenty five years at the major conferences,
but it had to be up there. And instead of
embracing it, it felt like, as the season went along
and they realized, well, there's a chance Indiana could make
(12:55):
the playoffs, it's like, we don't want to give up
one of these spots that one of these traditional Powers
could have had to good old Indiana. You know, their
story was cute for five or six weeks, but now
they're continuing to win, they might actually crash the party.
So that to me was the most disappointing thing about it.
And it's kind of the opposite in what college basketball.
There's every year in March of Cinderella's and all these
(13:18):
national guys right about these Cinderella teams, and it's like
the greatest thing, and we can't wait to see fifteen
beat two or we can't wait to see sixteen beat one.
And in this case, it was actually a really good
story with a program that it wasn't like Cutney Corners
with what it did last year. This was a lot
of guys from the Portal obviously that were under recruited,
and obviously the James Madison guys rank coming up a level,
(13:41):
and it was just really you know, I don't know
if you simulated, if you simulated the season one hundred
times in a video game, it would have never happened.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
It's one of the greatest stories in American sports history.
I mean, Indiana the most down trot of teams. You know,
they trade losing his program in FBS history back and
forth with Wake Forest and Vanderbilt, like that's how bad
they are. Like, however bad you think Northwestern is in basketball, historically,
(14:14):
that's Indiana in football. And you know it wasn't just
that that program rose out of nowhere, out of no expectations.
You know, the most optimistic expectations from national writers last
year were like five wins and you know, to boat
race almost the entirety of their competition through the first
ten weeks, and to do so with a coach that
(14:36):
had this remarkable backstory like Kurt Signetti, had to do
it with a lot of the emotional and skill core
of the team being a bunch of guys that came
from a non power for team in James Madison. To
do it in a year when the playoff expands and
suddenly there's opportunity, that should have been a story that
(14:58):
the nation embraced, the college football writers embraced, and they
did as you pointed out for a little bit. What
I found fascinating last year in this whole debate was
this idea of who gets to be the underdog? Who
gets to have the underdog story? As much focus was
on Indiana and their schedule Boise State, no one questioned
(15:20):
their you know, winning their conference and being in the playoff.
I mean, go look at what Boise State did. Yes,
they played at Oregon, good for them. They also played
the likes of Utah State and San Diego State and
Nevada and San Jose State in Wyoming, and no one
batter than I, no one said well even though they,
you know, were an automatic qualifier, they don't belong. There
was oh, look at Boise State and Ashton Genti and
(15:41):
what they've accomplished. So there really is. I think it
was a real missed opportunity to talk about a great
story and it wasn't uniform. I mean, Nicole Auerbach did
a great story on NBC Sports profiling Signetti and the
Hoosiers late in the season. You know, they got a
lot of attention, kind of begrowudging they paid to them
when they did make the playoff. But this is how
(16:04):
it works at that level. And the thing one of
the things that I found hilarious in the arguments against
the playoff historically and against revenue sharing and all the
things that I have in college sports was this idea of, oh,
this might hurt competitive balance, and then you look at
the top twenties of college football for the last twenty
five thirty years, where's the competitive balance. It's the same
(16:27):
cluster of teams doing everything. So I love the fact
that Indiana not only did what they did, but they've
come back and said we're not going anywhere. Will they
have the same level of success last year for you
this year as they had last year. I don't know,
but I think their position to be able to do so.
And I think it's fascinating that there seems to be
this much preemptive attention to trying to knock Indiana down
(16:49):
a peg. It's very you know, if you listen to
Men and Blazers, you know, the podcast that covers English
Premier League, you know, they'll always they'll always mention this
thing about how there's this mentality about instead of celebrating
other successes, we try to knock the successful down a
peg to you know, if we feel like they've gotten
too successful. That's kind of like how it feels with
(17:10):
Indiana and the national press right now. But I think
Indiana should embrace it, because hey, how often do we
get to play the villain in things? Right?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Take the free publicity right and take the take them moment.
I'm going to season shifting gears obviously to hoops. We
saw last season with football. The thing that changes obviously
getting couraged signetty because it's not just about changing the
coach or not just about changing the players. The coach
is the one that is the CEO of the program.
(17:39):
He oversees everything. He had the blueprint of how to
flip this thing. So now basketball changes into the hands
of Darren Deries. I'm curious just from your thoughts on
your early impressions of how he's handled from March I
think it was eighteenth until now. I can just tell
you from my perspective, which is a media perspective, things
that I've been encouraged by. Obviously, having an open practice
(18:02):
is something we hadn't had for the last eight years.
We actually got to see a little bit behind the curtain.
It wasn't anything you know, secret that that we saw.
It was an hour of workouts, but it was It
was a just an opportunity to see something we hadn't
seen really since the Tom kreen Aer so appreciated for that.
Had a chance to sit down with Darreon Debrees and
talk to him in his office for thirty five minutes.
(18:23):
Again the last two coaches that never happened. Again, this
is from the media perspective, but I think people also
have to understand our perspective is to bring information to
the fan base, and that really wasn't happening over the
last eight years. And so I think those have been
things that I've noticed so far that have been welcome changes. Also,
just listening to the way he talks about running a program,
(18:46):
there's not a lot of buzzwords. There's not a lot
of things that you look at and say, well, he
doesn't really mean that, he's just saying that. It seems
like he actually does have a concrete plan for how
he wants to do things. He has a style that
he's recruiting to trying to bring players in. Obviously, wants
to play up tempo and shoot a lot three pointers.
He has brought in the pieces to do that. I'm curious,
(19:07):
just from your perspective watching these first what five six
months of how things have gone, what have been your
impression so far?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
My impressions have been very favorable, And I think what
the vibe I get off of Devirees is this is
an exceedingly normal type of guys as coaches go. You know,
I think all coaches are. You're a little bit crazy
just because of the way you have to approach and
think about what you do for a living. But my
perspective on how he's approached the job, how he's approached
(19:40):
his duties, not just talking to media, but also talking
to fans. I mean, we saw him down at Huber's,
we saw him, I saw him down at French Lick.
You know. I think he's grown more comfortable even in
this short time in communicating in a way that fans
can grasp to a point where honestly, I remember sitting
there at Hubert hearing him talk and it's like, well,
(20:02):
this guy talks like a Midwesterner and that's going to
resonate with a lot of the fans. And I think
that that's something that's frankly been missing from Indiana coaches
for a long time. You know. Mike Woodson talked from
way up here all the time, you know, and that
was perhaps earned, but still came across as somewhat arrogant
(20:23):
perspective on his knowledge of the game of basketball and
how it would translate at the college level. And I
don't think that that resonated with fans at the end
of the day, its ctaally didn't resonate with media. Archie
Miller was just so distant in the way that he
presented himself, and you just never got the feeling that
Archie had command of things. He acted like it, but
(20:45):
you never really felt like it was there. Tom Crean
was all over the place all the time, you know,
Mike Davis was very removed but also oftentimes didn't know
how to really say things. And Bob Knight was more
like a religious figure to people as opposed to being
someone who was really communicated to you straightforward. It's just
all of the things that you don't want in terms
(21:07):
of normalcy and how you present yourself and present your program.
And that's not a criticism necessarily, Like, you know, it
worked for Night because you win a couple of national
championships and you're going to be communicating that way, so
it's certainly not a criticism, but it's just an interesting chain.
Devrees might be the most plain spoken, straightforward coach Indiana's
(21:28):
had in fifty years, which is pretty wild to think
about now. I liked the bits and pieces I saw
that came out of Puerto Rico. Obviously we didn't get
a chance to see much those of us who didn't
make the trip, but the clips I saw the accounting
from the folks that were down there. I was pretty
(21:48):
optimistic from what I was hearing, just in terms of
the style of play, the way that they approached different
aspects of the game, the fact there was such an
emphasis on outside shooting. Even though the shooting wasn't really
great from a percent perspective, some guys were able to
show off their athleticism. I'm still fascinated to see how
this works, both with this system in the Big Ten.
(22:10):
You know, I think it's got a real chance to succeed.
It looks a lot more modern. The shot charts look
a lot more modern than what we've seen, but there
is a talent deficit in terms of what you would
normally use to evaluate the level of talent that a
team has. I think that bark Torvik. There was a
chart that came out the other day that aunt Wright
had where it rated the talent levels of all eighteen
(22:34):
teams in the conference. In Indiana was like second to last.
I think they were only ahead of Minnesota, And you know,
that's a metric that's almost certainly predicated on recruiting rankings
and level of prior accomplishment. But that said, I like
all the pieces and I like the way that they
seem to fit together. I think that what Devrez is
(22:56):
doing that's very smart right now is you know, there's
not a lot of talk about what they're planning on
doing other than we're going to play hard. I want
people to leave the building being proud of what they
watched when they watched EU play basketball, because look, this
could be a team that surprises people and you know,
is solidly in the tournament. It could be a bubble team.
I just don't think we know what's going to happen
(23:17):
when the rubber meets the road on this. But I
do like the fact that the way that Derez is
communicating is not lofty, it's not arrogant, it's not ego driven.
It really just does feel like a guy talking basketball.
And I think that frankly, that is something that IU
fans want to hear. They just haven't heard it in
a long time from the head coach.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah. I think some people saw the scores of the
games two and three down there and wondered why they
got down so big on both those games, and I've
tried to explain to a couple of people that they
were obviously not to me, my read of the situation
from what Derez told us was basketball was kind of
secondary on this trip. It was more about these excursions
and these food tours and getting out on the water
(24:00):
and so people. You know, I've had people ask me,
are you concerned at all about the three point shooting numbers? Well,
if a guy's out on a jet ski two or
three hours before he's gonna play a basketball game in
the ninety five degree sun, I don't think that's the
preparation that they're gonna have when they actually get into
the games. What was more encouraging to me was the
fact that they got down big in these games and
they were able to come back and figure out a
(24:21):
way to win. Now you can have a debate under
about how good Mega super Bet is. They're a team
that had just come together, similar to Indiana, They've got
some guys missing, but they do have a guy that
was drafted in the second round of the NBA. They've
got some other guys with high major talent. So it
wasn't like the first team that they played was a
couple of people have described them to me as kind
of a Naia team. So encouraging to me was that
(24:44):
they were able to figure out a way despite kind
of the fact that maybe they weren't as focused as
they would be when the regular seasons start, and find
a way to win those games.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah. I mean, look, a lot of people ask me,
why can't why is there no stream wise Big ten
we're not broadcasting these or why is in the athletic
department And it's August. It's early August when this is happening.
This team has never played together in a competitive environment
against another team before. And it's not just the basketball
(25:15):
aspects that you have to build. You have to build
a sense of a spree of corps. You have to
build camaraderie. You have to build a sense of trust
and belonging. And I know there's fans out there that
I see on message boards who don't seem to think
that stuff matters or isn't important. It is. I mean,
this is just any good management or leadership book is
(25:38):
going to talk about the need to form social bonds
amongst your team, whether it's in corporate America or whether
it's happening on a basketball floor. And I think what
you said is exactly right, Like, you know, the wins
and losses were not important. You know. It's it's funny
because I think it would have been hilarious if I
(25:58):
you had gone down streamed it but not kept score
and just been like, well, we're just going to play
like play by play and not worry about the final score.
People would have freaked out about that, but it would
have been just as useful. So I could care less
about the outcome of a game in early August amongst
a group of guys that hadn't been on the court
at the same time playing live bodies on the other end.
(26:20):
But what I did care about was they got to
get themselves in some situations where they had to dig
themselves out. That does matter. That will carry over as
you start to get into practice, you know, when it
gets started here in a month, month and a half,
whatever it is, and that'll carry over to the start
of the season. It's I just I think to some degree,
(26:40):
and it's not just unique to eye you people. The
access that you now have in the digital era creates
this expectation that you have to evaluate everything all the time,
and you don't. And so if you're one of those
fans that feels like you do, it's okay, take a
step back. We're here to help support you. You don't
(27:02):
have to worry about every single second of what you
see on a floor, especially in August and September, in October.
Wait till the actual games start. That's when you should
start getting concerned. But right now, this is about a
group of guys coming together learning how to play with
each other. It's about a group of coaches, some of
them have coached with each other and some of whom
(27:22):
have not. Figuring out how to work together and how
to work with those players and figuring out who's in
what roles and what's going to make the most sense.
That takes a lot of time, and these sorts of
trips are invaluable to making that happen. So you know,
there's no guarantee it's going to happen as we've seen.
I mean, I use gone on trips and done things
(27:42):
and they haven't really led to coalescing. But let's give
this some breathing room. Is my perspective on all of this.
And I was thrilled that we got some nice comebacks,
but ultimately it wouldn't have mattered if they've lost by
twenty in all those games.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Right in terms of just the roster and what you've
been able to read and see. You probably watch videos
of some of these guys from the transfer portal stuff
in the spring. Is there a guy or too that
that maybe stands out that intrigues you going in the season.
You want to see how their game translates to the
big ten.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
There's like, is all of them a good answer? I mean,
it's I would say the guys I feel like, to
some degree we know that Wilkerson and Connorway and Tucker
Degrees are going to be kind of the core of
this team. I was really fascinated by what we saw
out of Red Bailey because that's a guy who him
(28:35):
and Connor right are kind of the two players where
I'm like, I don't totally know if what you do
is going to translate to the big ten level on
a night at night out basis for two different reasons.
You know, I mean, Bailey is it's really you know,
he had success obviously at his previous stop, and the
numbers look good, but you know, you look at the
(28:56):
numbers and you're like, well, gosh, he you know, he
didn't have a ton of rebounds, and I don't understand
how he fits within this system if he's going to
be around the perimeter all the time. And then even there,
he didn't shoot a lot of threes, but he hit
a lot of threes percentage wise. But I was really
encouraged by what I saw there and I'm curious to
see how that works with Enright. You know, Indiana hasn't
(29:19):
had a true irritant at that position in a long time,
and I think that that's been something that's been missing
from the DNA of Indiana. Like we've had We've had
a lot of we haven't had a lot of on
court behavioral problems for the opposition. We've had some on
court behavioral issues for Indiana. I mean, as much as
DeVante Green had his adherents and his fans, like, he
(29:42):
created a lot of problems, but you know, and then
he would solve some of the problems and then create
or other ones and that's that's just kind of how
he was as a player. But we've always kind of
been envious of these players that just annoyed the hell
out of you on other teams, and we haven't had
a whole ton of those guys recently, so I am
curious to see if his if the rest of his
game can match up to that, because that's a great
(30:04):
weapon that you can hopefully utilize throughout the course of
the year. And then, honestly, like a lot of the
a lot of the the other players that are in
the mix, I just don't entirely know yet what to
make out of, you know, like a Sam Alex is
going to be a guy you can get regular minutes
out of, you know, you you know, Trent Sisley, I
liked what I saw. I liked the energy. If he's
(30:27):
ready to play right away, that's been the big question
mark because I've heard I heard mixed reviews about whether
people thought he would actually be able to hit the
ground running. So and honestly, I could go that way
for almost every player on the roster at this point,
like outside of that three I said at the beginning,
I have a lot of questions about how everybody reconciles
on the floor. So I'm I'm actually kind of looking
(30:49):
forward to it because from my perspective, it's so rare
that you get to get introduced to a bunch of
guys at once. It's less rare now in the portal,
but uh, we don't really. We won't know till probably
Game ten who we can rely on on the floor,
who's got what tendencies. It's gonna be really interesting to
watch that all unfold.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah. I like the idea that it's a brand new start,
and obviously you can't do that in a Obviously football
it was a brand new start, but you can't completely
turn over a football roster just logistically and with the numbers,
you got to be able to keep some of the
guys just because there's so many players. But in basketball
now with the portal being able to completely flip the roster.
I know there was a lot of fans that I
heard from last spring, well do you think they're going
(31:31):
to keep Rice and Tucker? Do you think they're going
to keep Miles Rice? And it's like, probably not. Is
it all unfolded? And it's probably for a good reason.
Not that any of those guys I think we're bad
guys or bad players, but sometimes you just kind of
need a new direction. And I think now with the
portal and being able to totally reset a program, not
from a just from a coaching standpoint, from a player standpoint,
(31:53):
they filled out the roster with quality players. Now are
all of them proven high major players? Know? But you
look at Tayton Connorway, who was the player of the
year in the Sun Belt, led his team to a
NCAA tournament appearance, played against Kentucky, so he's played against
good competition. Reed Bailey was down there at Battle for Atlantis,
had really good numbers. For Davidson, one of the better
front court big men at the mid major level last season.
(32:15):
Lamar Wilkerson, we saw him last season playing for Sam
Houston against Indiana. Didn't play that well in that game,
but I watched him in that hour practice up in
Bloomington and he looked like a guy that can just
score the ball from anywhere. So all of these pieces
are for the most part unproven at the high major level.
But I think what we've seen in college basketball now
(32:39):
with the transfer portal, guys do have a chance to
move up and have success. So I agree with you.
I'm excited to kind of see this new regime. Is
there just from a team perspective, is there a lingering
question that you have going in the season? For me,
it's obviously the front court and rim protection. I think
in the Big Ten you're seeing more programs kind of
shift to a more modern style play. And I say that,
(33:00):
and then I look at what Dusty made did last
season that I look at the front court he's assembled
this year and Ann Arbor, and they're going to have
obviously modern style play with some really talented front court players.
So they're gonna be able to play a multiple ways.
And you think got Michigan State historically he has always
had those big, tough front lines. But I don't necessarily
see a ton of dominant bigs in the Big Ten,
(33:22):
at least on rosters going into the season. So I
think it's something that Indiana is going to be able
to navigate if they can rebound as a team, and
obviously they're gonna have Knights where they get beat up
in the post. But for me, it's a front court.
Is it similar for you? Is there something else? Maybe
it's a lingering question.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
No, it's the front court. But I'm in the same
boat that you are in that. I think that if
you've got shooting on the outside and you're dedicated to it,
that covers a multitude sin when it comes to the
front court because three points last I checked, we're still
more worth more than two. And so what you get
(33:59):
I think by reorienting around the perimeter and having mobile
bigs who can rim run, who can you be in position?
I mean, one of the things that I've noted as
I've watched all of these videos of Devrees style offense
and what Creighton has done historically, which is basically the
same tree, is they will really capitalize on spacing and
(34:23):
rolling guys to the rim rather than posting guys up.
Can you live on that? In the Big Ten? We've
been told no time and time again, But the Big
East is just as physical and just as talent driven
as the Big Ten is, and somehow teams have managed
to thrive in that conference using a similar kind of style.
(34:43):
And so the big thing I think for this upcoming
year is just it's not even the lack of bigs,
it's what is the actual mono a mono quality of
the players going to be against the players that they're
going up against on a nightly basis and overcome a
lot of talent inequity by playing hard, Which is why
(35:05):
I think Darren DeVries has really emphasized that, as any
good coach frankly should. I do think there's a ceiling
on what this team can probably accomplish. If you are
simply talking about normal nights, like normal shooting nights, normal
nights with rebounding and other aspects, it probably caps out
at about a twenty one or twenty two win team,
which would be great given that nobody was on this
(35:28):
roster six months ago that's on it today. That doesn't
mean that that's necessarily their limit, because I think that
they have, from what we've seen, the offensive approach that
could yield great nights shooting, but it's also going to
yield some terrible nights shooting. That's the nature of how
this stuff works. And so I look at this season,
(35:48):
and I know people don't necessarily want to hear this,
but I think it's true. I look at this season
as an intermediate step type of season, a rebuild where
you can't fully strip it down and start over. You've
done that to some degree, but you're still going to
be expected to be in the conversation for the tournament Indiana.
What excites me about the Divies era right now is
(36:11):
how aggressively they are recruiting and trying to bring in
that next level of talent to pair with whoever's left
over next year and whoever they can get in the
portal that like this season's going to much and to
some degree, it's like you here Kurt Signetti and football
talk about how their recruiting was last year versus how
their recruiting was this year, and is the way he
(36:34):
talked about it is last year they were selling a
lot of hope, they were selling a lot of promises
or hey, look what we did at James Madison. They
weren't selling what was going on in Bloomington because it
hadn't happened yet. This year, with last year now in
the books and the level of success now a lot
of people, a lot of doors opened that weren't opened before.
(36:55):
What's interesting about Devrez's recruiting is the doors have been
opened for a lot of these players. And some of
that is the recruiting prowess of Drew Adams and Rod
Clark and the way that this staff has gone about things.
But some of it is the offense and the way
that this team has said they're going to play in
the pedigree of this coaching staff. So what they're able
to do with this collection of talent is going to
(37:17):
be a great sell for future seasons because you can say, legitimately,
we put together a team of players that were bits
and pieces from all over the country, but they fit
styles and they fit approaches to playing, and that's what
we're going to live on the court and in the
practice facility, and that's where we can plug you in
and here's what it can do for you. You know.
(37:37):
So I look at this season and I say to myself, yes,
I have questions about the roles, and maybe there'll be
roles and players and situations that won't work as well.
But I look at that as a nice runway to
bring in recruits who can help in those specific areas
where Indiana looks deficient, because you could say, all we're
missing out of this equation is you. Let's get you
(37:59):
in here, and let's you elevate this system to something
even greater. And look what we did even without that
particular piece in place.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Very well, said Galen. I know you've got to run
here shortly. You got a busy week with with students
arriving on campus quickly. How are things going at the
maybe hopefully not too low of a question. How are
things going? I know how things are going with some
of your students because some of them have interacted with
very closely with the last couple of years, and it's
been exciting to see some of them go into the
(38:28):
ural world, get jobs and have a new group of
students that are gonna be writing for me this year.
So the Media School continues to do great things. Glad
that we've been able to continue to communicate on that,
and you've always been gracious and helpful helping to identify
students that might be a great fit friendside the hall.
But just quickly, how are things going with the Media
School and excited for another year to begin.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Things are going great. We have never had more students
in the Media School. We're about twenty five hundred students
at the undergraduate level. Sports media has been doing awesome.
We got over three hundred students in that program and
they work on a variety of things. It's not just
the folks that you guys get to know inside the hall,
but it's also the behind the scenes folks that are
doing production. All those big ten plus games, those are
(39:13):
all student produced, and that's a lot of the people
in this program. So we've been really proud of what
our students have accomplished. A big shout out to Kara Adams,
who won the LEAs A Buyington Award with the Big
Ten Network as the best female student broadcaster last year.
We've got a great group of students coming in this season,
many of whom have already been working covering other sports,
(39:36):
and we've one of the things that might be interesting
to all your football fans now that you're covering it.
We're going to have a live show from Memorial Stadium
Thursday nights at eight. The IUSTV is going to be
doing You can check out Crimson Cast Twitter account. We'll
retweet it so everybody can watch. But some great things
going on here and couldn't be happier to come into
another football and basketball season and get a chance to
(39:58):
cover everything.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, it's great to see students excited about covering football.
I mean, that's one reason we're adding it this year.
Josh was pretty adamant that he wanted to cover football
and with the success and you know, I thought it
was a great opportunity to start doing that. To look
for that and obviously continue to listen to Crimson cast
to back Home Network. Check everything out that they're doing
over there. Galing again, thanks again for the time, and
(40:20):
thanks for thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Thanks as always, Al, it's great to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
If you enjoy podcasts on the Brink, please leave us
a rating and review over on Apple Podcast, leave us
a five star rating over on Spotify, and we'll be
back next week with another episode podcast on the braink
Welcome back to a new episode of Podcast on the Brink. Tuesday,
August nineteenth. Indiana wraps up its exhibition tour in Puerto Rico.
Last week had a ton of coverage of that on
Inside the Hall. We had Josh pose on for two
episodes down there. Those were very well received episodes. Josh
did a great job of covering the team down there
(00:39):
in Puerto Rico. This week's guest on Podcasts on the
Brink Galen Clavia. Before we get to Galen, one of
my favorite guests to have on the show. Please, if
you haven't done so, please take a minute to leave
us a rating and review over on Apple Podcasts. Leave
us a five star rating over on Spotify. Those watching
on YouTube, subscribe to the channel like the video. I've
noticed the last couple of weeks getting a lot more
(01:01):
likes on our video podcast episodes, so it's always good
to see. So thank you for that support. Continue to
do that, Galen, I was looking back at my notes.
October twenty eighth was your last appearance on this podcast.
We were talking about Indiana's triumph down in Knoxville, Tennessee.
We were thinking what top ten, top fifteen team, and
(01:21):
here we are with another reset of IU basketball. I
guess to start out, first of all, how you doing.
I know you got a lot going on with school
starting next week there in Bloomington and your duties with
the media school, So thanks for taking the time.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, oh great, great doing well. Thank you for having
me on. I can't believe it's been that long. It
feels like it's been It feels like it was not
that long, let's put it that way.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, So, I guess how surprised are you that we're
kind of back at this point now after another four years.
It feels like obviously there was there was nine years
of cream, so that was a longer tenure for an
IU basketball coach, and then we've kind of had these
successive four years for coaches and another reset, and I
feel like some of us maybe kind of fall into
(02:04):
that trap of now there's a new coach and now
there's reason for optimism again, but you don't really know
what's going to happen. I'm just curious your thoughts on
ending up back in this spot and if you're surprised
at all that here we are again.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
If I recall my October appearance last year, I think
we talked quite a bit about how there was Even
though they looked good at Tennessee, there was a big
wait and see aspect because there had been a lot
of trust lost in Mike Woodson and that whole project
because of what had happened in the previous spring. So
(02:37):
I wasn't shocked when it went the way that it
did last year. And I remember talking with some people
before the season and saying, well, if X and Y
round into shape, and if they can integrate Ballo into
the offense, then I think they'll be more competitive than
they were. Unfortunately, it never really happened, and it was
one of those classic I guess you can as much
(03:00):
as you can call a classic Woodson team after only
a four year stint, but it seemed to have a
lot more potential than what actually ended up happening in
real life. And so I think it's more disappointing than
surprising that we're back at this level. And it's again
I think we've burned a lot of bridges, just like
(03:22):
overall in terms of how people view IU basketball, and
that really extends to all different levels, and so it's
an interesting spot to be in inasmuch as last year,
while I would say maybe not as bad feeling as
the previous year was, just as frustrating in a lot
of ways. And you know, it's left us in a
(03:44):
spot where I think for a lot of IU fans
it's like, all right, seriously, we're back at this level again.
And I understand anybody that feels that way at this point.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So last year, maybe going into the season there was
a bit of a distraction because of the football season
was going on. It kind of feels the same way
a little bit this year because there's so much excitement,
even maybe more so excitement at this time of year
going into football because a lot of people didn't know
what to expect with last year's football season. And you know,
the joke's always been football has been something to pass
(04:17):
the time before basketball and Bloomington. It's not really that
way anymore now after just one season of Kurt Signetti.
I'm curious, you know, somebody that lives in Bloomington. You
followed that program, the football program for such a long time,
and you've got students now coming back to campus and Bloomington,
and we're covering football for the first time this year,
and inside obviously not as in depth as we do basketball,
(04:38):
but we are going to add some football coverage and
excited about that. But what's the feeling just that you've
gotten thus far on campus, Just in terms of the
excitement leading into this fall sports season with football.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
It's very high, you know. And this is something that
isn't just limited to campus. It's something that we see
in most of the social media circles. It's certainly something
I hear about when I talk with people, Like, there's
legitimate hype and excitement about IU football, and there should be.
This is one of those programs that, yes, they had
a magic carpet ride last year with the way that
(05:10):
everything went. But where I think this is different is
not only did they retain a lot of the top
players from last year who demonstrated that they were playing
at levels that have led them to be first team
All country. I mean there's like two or three IU
defensive players between Mikhal Kamarad, Angelo Ponds and Aidan Fisher
(05:31):
that are getting ranked among the best in the country.
But they also were able to reload. They went out
and they got Fernando Mendoza quarterback. They went out and
got Pat Coogan to play on the offensive line, and
zen Mkowski, they went out and got Jose Wheeler. I mean,
they've got all these new pieces to go along with
the existing pieces, and it really does feel like a
(05:51):
program has formed, as opposed to a good team, which
is oftentimes historically when you'd see Indiana do well, they'd
culminate in one team that would win seven games and
go to a bowl, and then they would recede and
we'd start to cycle all over again. It doesn't feel
that way right now, and I think a lot of
people have really bought into the idea that this is
(06:14):
a school that now does football, you know, as opposed
to just being purely a basketball school.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
So are you expecting these first couple of games we're
gonna see a full Memorial stadium? I know there's once
the big ten schedule hits, there's going to be the
expectation that the stadium is full. But I remember those
first couple of games early on, you know Kurt Signetti famously,
I think it made a comment about students leaping at
halftime and then that was quickly rectified. Is the expectation
kind of going into these early games that you're going
(06:42):
to see close to full or full Memorial stadium.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I think it's it's going to be a challenge to
get the stadium full for those early games as much
because the hotel logistics are not there in Bloomington. You know,
it's I mean, it's wild out on the streets, so
to speak. If you go look at hotel price is
for that first weekend, it's pretty nuts. And that said,
I still think we'll get close. I think it's about
(07:07):
eight or nine thousand tickets still available for the Old
Dominion game. I'm guessing that we'll get to a stadium
capacities essentially fifty three thousand. I'm guessing we'll get to
forty eight or forty nine, maybe more than that, depending
on what the walk up looks like and what the
weather is that day, which for an opening game against
a non name competitor is pretty darn good. Or IU football,
(07:29):
I think it's we could do some more hotels. If
there's any entrepreneurs out there that would like to try
to open one, I'm happy to go into business with
you on this. But in addition to that, I know
so many of people that come to IU football games
come from out of town. They come from the North
side of India, or they come from Fort Wayne or
they come from the region. It's going to be interesting
(07:50):
watching people get Rea cultured to the idea that they
have to be down there every weekend. I think for
Big Ten games, it's going to be sold out, and
I think, as we saw last year with Nebraska, with Washington,
with Michigan, it's gonna be IU fans in the stands.
That in and of itself is a huge sea change
from what it's been historically, and so the fact that
they would get that close to sellouts in these non
(08:12):
con games is pretty impressive, and I wouldn't be shocked
if one or two of them actually did end up
it sold out or close to it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
A few more football things before we dive into hoops.
But there's been obviously a lot of preseason chatter just
about this whole scheduling debate in college football, and Indiana's
kind of been the focus of some of it. I
think some of that obviously is brought on by kind
of Kurt Signetti not being shy about voicing his opinion.
Also Indiana kind of changing some things around the schedule.
(08:42):
You know. The last year, I think it was that
they got out of the Louisville series this I think
coming up that they've bought out of a series with Virginia.
But the flip side of that is the Big ten's
playing more conference games than the SEC, and so, you know,
depending on how you want to look at it, I
think everyone has maybe an argument that they can make
with this. Where do you kind of come down on
this whole situation in terms of scheduling college football? Does
(09:04):
it need to be something where these conferences kind of
align on the number of conference games that they're going
to play. Does it need to be some equity there?
Or do you think the system is fine as it
is and we can continue to have these arguments in
July and have fun on social media talking about it.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I mean, we can have the arguments. I just what
real incentive is there for any program like Indiana to
play a tough non conference schedule when you play nine
games against Big ten competition. No one's been able to
adequately answer that question. You point to the SEC teams.
The SEC teams play eight SEC teams, and some of
(09:44):
them will play a Power Conference opponent. Many of them
do not, you know, so it's one of the or
if they're playing one, they're playing the dregs of a conference,
and you know, it's one of those deals where the
arguments are not really being done in good faith. And
if you're an SEC partisan, of course you're going to
(10:05):
argue that playing a weak non conference schedule should be disqualifying.
But from my perspective, there's no reason why a Big
Ten team at this point should be engaging in that
unless they have such an overwhelming talent advantage that they
really feel like they need to test themselves. But I'll
note last year Notre Dame ends up in the national
(10:26):
title game, did not play a particularly difficult schedule, and
it clearly didn't have that much of an impact in
terms of their ability to play in the playoffs. So
I'm not sure what playing tough non conference games is
really supposed to give you if it doesn't make a
huge difference in how your team plays, and all it
does is potentially endanger your ability to make a playoff.
Given the criteria that college football uses to bring teams
(10:50):
into the playoff, which is a committee making subjective decisions,
I think Indiana is doing exactly what they should be doing,
and it's hilarious to me that Indiana has gotten the
ire of not just SEC fans, but these national sports
writers who act like some kind of crime against college
football is being committed. And I'm just like, guys, are
you going to talk about Penn State's non conference schedule
(11:12):
this year? Like at all? Go look at that. It's embarrassing.
It doesn't get talked about. Why because Indiana is new
to the ball and there is a real old money mentality,
not just among teams, not just among fans, but among
media that cover college football. It's unfortunate and to me,
it's almost like a fake debate point at this point.
(11:34):
And it probably won't matter anyway in three years because
we'll probably end up in the middle of another round
of realignment. But it is hilarious that Indiana keeps getting
talked about on a daily basis with this, and all
it's doing is getting Indiana in the minds of more people,
which is exactly what you would want out of this
whole process.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, it would have been totally fine last year if
it was Ohio State with the credentials in Indiana, had
people whre have looked at the scores that they that
they beat some of the I think that was the
most frustrating thing. I was you know, watch not covering
the team, but it was interesting because I checked out
some of those early games last year because it was
a new coach and it was a new you know,
(12:13):
a new beginning, and I wanted a chance to see
if it was going to be any different because I've
watched AU football over the years and you kind of
get to that week five or six, it's I got
what we've seen this story before. Well it felt different
from the beginning last year, and it was actually a
really great story, Like a lot of these national writers
could have embraced the fact that there was this Indiana
team that look at the program's history and look at
(12:35):
what it's done over this long period of time, and
it was really just a great story just in terms
of that turnaround and improbable. I mean, I don't have
a list of the most improbable college football seasons in
the last twenty twenty five years at the major conferences,
but it had to be up there. And instead of
embracing it, it felt like, as the season went along
and they realized, well, there's a chance Indiana could make
(12:55):
the playoffs, it's like, we don't want to give up
one of these spots that one of these traditional Powers
could have had to good old Indiana. You know, their
story was cute for five or six weeks, but now
they're continuing to win, they might actually crash the party.
So that to me was the most disappointing thing about it.
And it's kind of the opposite in what college basketball.
There's every year in March of Cinderella's and all these
(13:18):
national guys right about these Cinderella teams, and it's like
the greatest thing, and we can't wait to see fifteen
beat two or we can't wait to see sixteen beat one.
And in this case, it was actually a really good
story with a program that it wasn't like Cutney Corners
with what it did last year. This was a lot
of guys from the Portal obviously that were under recruited,
and obviously the James Madison guys rank coming up a level,
(13:41):
and it was just really you know, I don't know
if you simulated, if you simulated the season one hundred
times in a video game, it would have never happened.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
It's one of the greatest stories in American sports history.
I mean, Indiana the most down trot of teams. You know,
they trade losing his program in FBS history back and
forth with Wake Forest and Vanderbilt, like that's how bad
they are. Like, however bad you think Northwestern is in basketball, historically,
(14:14):
that's Indiana in football. And you know it wasn't just
that that program rose out of nowhere, out of no expectations.
You know, the most optimistic expectations from national writers last
year were like five wins and you know, to boat
race almost the entirety of their competition through the first
ten weeks, and to do so with a coach that
(14:36):
had this remarkable backstory like Kurt Signetti, had to do
it with a lot of the emotional and skill core
of the team being a bunch of guys that came
from a non power for team in James Madison. To
do it in a year when the playoff expands and
suddenly there's opportunity, that should have been a story that
(14:58):
the nation embraced, the college football writers embraced, and they
did as you pointed out for a little bit. What
I found fascinating last year in this whole debate was
this idea of who gets to be the underdog? Who
gets to have the underdog story? As much focus was
on Indiana and their schedule Boise State, no one questioned
(15:20):
their you know, winning their conference and being in the playoff.
I mean, go look at what Boise State did. Yes,
they played at Oregon, good for them. They also played
the likes of Utah State and San Diego State and
Nevada and San Jose State in Wyoming, and no one
batter than I, no one said well even though they,
you know, were an automatic qualifier, they don't belong. There
was oh, look at Boise State and Ashton Genti and
(15:41):
what they've accomplished. So there really is. I think it
was a real missed opportunity to talk about a great
story and it wasn't uniform. I mean, Nicole Auerbach did
a great story on NBC Sports profiling Signetti and the
Hoosiers late in the season. You know, they got a
lot of attention, kind of begrowudging they paid to them
when they did make the playoff. But this is how
(16:04):
it works at that level. And the thing one of
the things that I found hilarious in the arguments against
the playoff historically and against revenue sharing and all the
things that I have in college sports was this idea of, oh,
this might hurt competitive balance, and then you look at
the top twenties of college football for the last twenty
five thirty years, where's the competitive balance. It's the same
(16:27):
cluster of teams doing everything. So I love the fact
that Indiana not only did what they did, but they've
come back and said we're not going anywhere. Will they
have the same level of success last year for you
this year as they had last year. I don't know,
but I think their position to be able to do so.
And I think it's fascinating that there seems to be
this much preemptive attention to trying to knock Indiana down
(16:49):
a peg. It's very you know, if you listen to
Men and Blazers, you know, the podcast that covers English
Premier League, you know, they'll always they'll always mention this
thing about how there's this mentality about instead of celebrating
other successes, we try to knock the successful down a
peg to you know, if we feel like they've gotten
too successful. That's kind of like how it feels with
(17:10):
Indiana and the national press right now. But I think
Indiana should embrace it, because hey, how often do we
get to play the villain in things? Right?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Take the free publicity right and take the take them moment.
I'm going to season shifting gears obviously to hoops. We
saw last season with football. The thing that changes obviously
getting couraged signetty because it's not just about changing the
coach or not just about changing the players. The coach
is the one that is the CEO of the program.
(17:39):
He oversees everything. He had the blueprint of how to
flip this thing. So now basketball changes into the hands
of Darren Deries. I'm curious just from your thoughts on
your early impressions of how he's handled from March I
think it was eighteenth until now. I can just tell
you from my perspective, which is a media perspective, things
that I've been encouraged by. Obviously, having an open practice
(18:02):
is something we hadn't had for the last eight years.
We actually got to see a little bit behind the curtain.
It wasn't anything you know, secret that that we saw.
It was an hour of workouts, but it was It
was a just an opportunity to see something we hadn't
seen really since the Tom kreen Aer so appreciated for that.
Had a chance to sit down with Darreon Debrees and
talk to him in his office for thirty five minutes.
(18:23):
Again the last two coaches that never happened. Again, this
is from the media perspective, but I think people also
have to understand our perspective is to bring information to
the fan base, and that really wasn't happening over the
last eight years. And so I think those have been
things that I've noticed so far that have been welcome changes. Also,
just listening to the way he talks about running a program,
(18:46):
there's not a lot of buzzwords. There's not a lot
of things that you look at and say, well, he
doesn't really mean that, he's just saying that. It seems
like he actually does have a concrete plan for how
he wants to do things. He has a style that
he's recruiting to trying to bring players in. Obviously, wants
to play up tempo and shoot a lot three pointers.
He has brought in the pieces to do that. I'm curious,
(19:07):
just from your perspective watching these first what five six
months of how things have gone, what have been your
impression so far?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
My impressions have been very favorable, And I think what
the vibe I get off of Devirees is this is
an exceedingly normal type of guys as coaches go. You know,
I think all coaches are. You're a little bit crazy
just because of the way you have to approach and
think about what you do for a living. But my
perspective on how he's approached the job, how he's approached
(19:40):
his duties, not just talking to media, but also talking
to fans. I mean, we saw him down at Huber's,
we saw him, I saw him down at French Lick.
You know. I think he's grown more comfortable even in
this short time in communicating in a way that fans
can grasp to a point where honestly, I remember sitting
there at Hubert hearing him talk and it's like, well,
(20:02):
this guy talks like a Midwesterner and that's going to
resonate with a lot of the fans. And I think
that that's something that's frankly been missing from Indiana coaches
for a long time. You know. Mike Woodson talked from
way up here all the time, you know, and that
was perhaps earned, but still came across as somewhat arrogant
(20:23):
perspective on his knowledge of the game of basketball and
how it would translate at the college level. And I
don't think that that resonated with fans at the end
of the day, its ctaally didn't resonate with media. Archie
Miller was just so distant in the way that he
presented himself, and you just never got the feeling that
Archie had command of things. He acted like it, but
(20:45):
you never really felt like it was there. Tom Crean
was all over the place all the time, you know,
Mike Davis was very removed but also oftentimes didn't know
how to really say things. And Bob Knight was more
like a religious figure to people as opposed to being
someone who was really communicated to you straightforward. It's just
all of the things that you don't want in terms
(21:07):
of normalcy and how you present yourself and present your program.
And that's not a criticism necessarily, Like, you know, it
worked for Night because you win a couple of national
championships and you're going to be communicating that way, so
it's certainly not a criticism, but it's just an interesting chain.
Devrees might be the most plain spoken, straightforward coach Indiana's
(21:28):
had in fifty years, which is pretty wild to think
about now. I liked the bits and pieces I saw
that came out of Puerto Rico. Obviously we didn't get
a chance to see much those of us who didn't
make the trip, but the clips I saw the accounting
from the folks that were down there. I was pretty
(21:48):
optimistic from what I was hearing, just in terms of
the style of play, the way that they approached different
aspects of the game, the fact there was such an
emphasis on outside shooting. Even though the shooting wasn't really
great from a percent perspective, some guys were able to
show off their athleticism. I'm still fascinated to see how
this works, both with this system in the Big Ten.
(22:10):
You know, I think it's got a real chance to succeed.
It looks a lot more modern. The shot charts look
a lot more modern than what we've seen, but there
is a talent deficit in terms of what you would
normally use to evaluate the level of talent that a
team has. I think that bark Torvik. There was a
chart that came out the other day that aunt Wright
had where it rated the talent levels of all eighteen
(22:34):
teams in the conference. In Indiana was like second to last.
I think they were only ahead of Minnesota, And you know,
that's a metric that's almost certainly predicated on recruiting rankings
and level of prior accomplishment. But that said, I like
all the pieces and I like the way that they
seem to fit together. I think that what Devrez is
(22:56):
doing that's very smart right now is you know, there's
not a lot of talk about what they're planning on
doing other than we're going to play hard. I want
people to leave the building being proud of what they
watched when they watched EU play basketball, because look, this
could be a team that surprises people and you know,
is solidly in the tournament. It could be a bubble team.
I just don't think we know what's going to happen
(23:17):
when the rubber meets the road on this. But I
do like the fact that the way that Derez is
communicating is not lofty, it's not arrogant, it's not ego driven.
It really just does feel like a guy talking basketball.
And I think that frankly, that is something that IU
fans want to hear. They just haven't heard it in
a long time from the head coach.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah. I think some people saw the scores of the
games two and three down there and wondered why they
got down so big on both those games, and I've
tried to explain to a couple of people that they
were obviously not to me, my read of the situation
from what Derez told us was basketball was kind of
secondary on this trip. It was more about these excursions
and these food tours and getting out on the water
(24:00):
and so people. You know, I've had people ask me,
are you concerned at all about the three point shooting numbers? Well,
if a guy's out on a jet ski two or
three hours before he's gonna play a basketball game in
the ninety five degree sun, I don't think that's the
preparation that they're gonna have when they actually get into
the games. What was more encouraging to me was the
fact that they got down big in these games and
they were able to come back and figure out a
(24:21):
way to win. Now you can have a debate under
about how good Mega super Bet is. They're a team
that had just come together, similar to Indiana, They've got
some guys missing, but they do have a guy that
was drafted in the second round of the NBA. They've
got some other guys with high major talent. So it
wasn't like the first team that they played was a
couple of people have described them to me as kind
of a Naia team. So encouraging to me was that
(24:44):
they were able to figure out a way despite kind
of the fact that maybe they weren't as focused as
they would be when the regular seasons start, and find
a way to win those games.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah. I mean, look, a lot of people ask me,
why can't why is there no stream wise Big ten
we're not broadcasting these or why is in the athletic
department And it's August. It's early August when this is happening.
This team has never played together in a competitive environment
against another team before. And it's not just the basketball
(25:15):
aspects that you have to build. You have to build
a sense of a spree of corps. You have to
build camaraderie. You have to build a sense of trust
and belonging. And I know there's fans out there that
I see on message boards who don't seem to think
that stuff matters or isn't important. It is. I mean,
this is just any good management or leadership book is
(25:38):
going to talk about the need to form social bonds
amongst your team, whether it's in corporate America or whether
it's happening on a basketball floor. And I think what
you said is exactly right, Like, you know, the wins
and losses were not important. You know. It's it's funny
because I think it would have been hilarious if I
(25:58):
you had gone down streamed it but not kept score
and just been like, well, we're just going to play
like play by play and not worry about the final score.
People would have freaked out about that, but it would
have been just as useful. So I could care less
about the outcome of a game in early August amongst
a group of guys that hadn't been on the court
at the same time playing live bodies on the other end.
(26:20):
But what I did care about was they got to
get themselves in some situations where they had to dig
themselves out. That does matter. That will carry over as
you start to get into practice, you know, when it
gets started here in a month, month and a half,
whatever it is, and that'll carry over to the start
of the season. It's I just I think to some degree,
(26:40):
and it's not just unique to eye you people. The
access that you now have in the digital era creates
this expectation that you have to evaluate everything all the time,
and you don't. And so if you're one of those
fans that feels like you do, it's okay, take a
step back. We're here to help support you. You don't
(27:02):
have to worry about every single second of what you
see on a floor, especially in August and September, in October.
Wait till the actual games start. That's when you should
start getting concerned. But right now, this is about a
group of guys coming together learning how to play with
each other. It's about a group of coaches, some of
them have coached with each other and some of whom
(27:22):
have not. Figuring out how to work together and how
to work with those players and figuring out who's in
what roles and what's going to make the most sense.
That takes a lot of time, and these sorts of
trips are invaluable to making that happen. So you know,
there's no guarantee it's going to happen as we've seen.
I mean, I use gone on trips and done things
(27:42):
and they haven't really led to coalescing. But let's give
this some breathing room. Is my perspective on all of this.
And I was thrilled that we got some nice comebacks,
but ultimately it wouldn't have mattered if they've lost by
twenty in all those games.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Right in terms of just the roster and what you've
been able to read and see. You probably watch videos
of some of these guys from the transfer portal stuff
in the spring. Is there a guy or too that
that maybe stands out that intrigues you going in the season.
You want to see how their game translates to the
big ten.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
There's like, is all of them a good answer? I mean,
it's I would say the guys I feel like, to
some degree we know that Wilkerson and Connorway and Tucker
Degrees are going to be kind of the core of
this team. I was really fascinated by what we saw
out of Red Bailey because that's a guy who him
(28:35):
and Connor right are kind of the two players where
I'm like, I don't totally know if what you do
is going to translate to the big ten level on
a night at night out basis for two different reasons.
You know, I mean, Bailey is it's really you know,
he had success obviously at his previous stop, and the
numbers look good, but you know, you look at the
(28:56):
numbers and you're like, well, gosh, he you know, he
didn't have a ton of rebounds, and I don't understand
how he fits within this system if he's going to
be around the perimeter all the time. And then even there,
he didn't shoot a lot of threes, but he hit
a lot of threes percentage wise. But I was really
encouraged by what I saw there and I'm curious to
see how that works with Enright. You know, Indiana hasn't
(29:19):
had a true irritant at that position in a long time,
and I think that that's been something that's been missing
from the DNA of Indiana. Like we've had We've had
a lot of we haven't had a lot of on
court behavioral problems for the opposition. We've had some on
court behavioral issues for Indiana. I mean, as much as
DeVante Green had his adherents and his fans, like, he
(29:42):
created a lot of problems, but you know, and then
he would solve some of the problems and then create
or other ones and that's that's just kind of how
he was as a player. But we've always kind of
been envious of these players that just annoyed the hell
out of you on other teams, and we haven't had
a whole ton of those guys recently, so I am
curious to see if his if the rest of his
game can match up to that, because that's a great
(30:04):
weapon that you can hopefully utilize throughout the course of
the year. And then, honestly, like a lot of the
a lot of the the other players that are in
the mix, I just don't entirely know yet what to
make out of, you know, like a Sam Alex is
going to be a guy you can get regular minutes
out of, you know, you you know, Trent Sisley, I
liked what I saw. I liked the energy. If he's
(30:27):
ready to play right away, that's been the big question
mark because I've heard I heard mixed reviews about whether
people thought he would actually be able to hit the
ground running. So and honestly, I could go that way
for almost every player on the roster at this point,
like outside of that three I said at the beginning,
I have a lot of questions about how everybody reconciles
on the floor. So I'm I'm actually kind of looking
(30:49):
forward to it because from my perspective, it's so rare
that you get to get introduced to a bunch of
guys at once. It's less rare now in the portal,
but uh, we don't really. We won't know till probably
Game ten who we can rely on on the floor,
who's got what tendencies. It's gonna be really interesting to
watch that all unfold.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah. I like the idea that it's a brand new start,
and obviously you can't do that in a Obviously football
it was a brand new start, but you can't completely
turn over a football roster just logistically and with the numbers,
you got to be able to keep some of the
guys just because there's so many players. But in basketball
now with the portal being able to completely flip the roster.
I know there was a lot of fans that I
heard from last spring, well do you think they're going
(31:31):
to keep Rice and Tucker? Do you think they're going
to keep Miles Rice? And it's like, probably not. Is
it all unfolded? And it's probably for a good reason.
Not that any of those guys I think we're bad
guys or bad players, but sometimes you just kind of
need a new direction. And I think now with the
portal and being able to totally reset a program, not
from a just from a coaching standpoint, from a player standpoint,
(31:53):
they filled out the roster with quality players. Now are
all of them proven high major players? Know? But you
look at Tayton Connorway, who was the player of the
year in the Sun Belt, led his team to a
NCAA tournament appearance, played against Kentucky, so he's played against
good competition. Reed Bailey was down there at Battle for Atlantis,
had really good numbers. For Davidson, one of the better
front court big men at the mid major level last season.
(32:15):
Lamar Wilkerson, we saw him last season playing for Sam
Houston against Indiana. Didn't play that well in that game,
but I watched him in that hour practice up in
Bloomington and he looked like a guy that can just
score the ball from anywhere. So all of these pieces
are for the most part unproven at the high major level.
But I think what we've seen in college basketball now
(32:39):
with the transfer portal, guys do have a chance to
move up and have success. So I agree with you.
I'm excited to kind of see this new regime. Is
there just from a team perspective, is there a lingering
question that you have going in the season? For me,
it's obviously the front court and rim protection. I think
in the Big Ten you're seeing more programs kind of
shift to a more modern style play. And I say that,
(33:00):
and then I look at what Dusty made did last
season that I look at the front court he's assembled
this year and Ann Arbor, and they're going to have
obviously modern style play with some really talented front court players.
So they're gonna be able to play a multiple ways.
And you think got Michigan State historically he has always
had those big, tough front lines. But I don't necessarily
see a ton of dominant bigs in the Big Ten,
(33:22):
at least on rosters going into the season. So I
think it's something that Indiana is going to be able
to navigate if they can rebound as a team, and
obviously they're gonna have Knights where they get beat up
in the post. But for me, it's a front court.
Is it similar for you? Is there something else? Maybe
it's a lingering question.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
No, it's the front court. But I'm in the same
boat that you are in that. I think that if
you've got shooting on the outside and you're dedicated to it,
that covers a multitude sin when it comes to the
front court because three points last I checked, we're still
more worth more than two. And so what you get
(33:59):
I think by reorienting around the perimeter and having mobile
bigs who can rim run, who can you be in position?
I mean, one of the things that I've noted as
I've watched all of these videos of Devrees style offense
and what Creighton has done historically, which is basically the
same tree, is they will really capitalize on spacing and
(34:23):
rolling guys to the rim rather than posting guys up.
Can you live on that? In the Big Ten? We've
been told no time and time again, But the Big
East is just as physical and just as talent driven
as the Big Ten is, and somehow teams have managed
to thrive in that conference using a similar kind of style.
(34:43):
And so the big thing I think for this upcoming
year is just it's not even the lack of bigs,
it's what is the actual mono a mono quality of
the players going to be against the players that they're
going up against on a nightly basis and overcome a
lot of talent inequity by playing hard, Which is why
(35:05):
I think Darren DeVries has really emphasized that, as any
good coach frankly should. I do think there's a ceiling
on what this team can probably accomplish. If you are
simply talking about normal nights, like normal shooting nights, normal
nights with rebounding and other aspects, it probably caps out
at about a twenty one or twenty two win team,
which would be great given that nobody was on this
(35:28):
roster six months ago that's on it today. That doesn't
mean that that's necessarily their limit, because I think that
they have, from what we've seen, the offensive approach that
could yield great nights shooting, but it's also going to
yield some terrible nights shooting. That's the nature of how
this stuff works. And so I look at this season,
(35:48):
and I know people don't necessarily want to hear this,
but I think it's true. I look at this season
as an intermediate step type of season, a rebuild where
you can't fully strip it down and start over. You've
done that to some degree, but you're still going to
be expected to be in the conversation for the tournament Indiana.
What excites me about the Divies era right now is
(36:11):
how aggressively they are recruiting and trying to bring in
that next level of talent to pair with whoever's left
over next year and whoever they can get in the
portal that like this season's going to much and to
some degree, it's like you here Kurt Signetti and football
talk about how their recruiting was last year versus how
their recruiting was this year, and is the way he
(36:34):
talked about it is last year they were selling a
lot of hope, they were selling a lot of promises
or hey, look what we did at James Madison. They
weren't selling what was going on in Bloomington because it
hadn't happened yet. This year, with last year now in
the books and the level of success now a lot
of people, a lot of doors opened that weren't opened before.
(36:55):
What's interesting about Devrez's recruiting is the doors have been
opened for a lot of these players. And some of
that is the recruiting prowess of Drew Adams and Rod
Clark and the way that this staff has gone about things.
But some of it is the offense and the way
that this team has said they're going to play in
the pedigree of this coaching staff. So what they're able
to do with this collection of talent is going to
(37:17):
be a great sell for future seasons because you can say, legitimately,
we put together a team of players that were bits
and pieces from all over the country, but they fit
styles and they fit approaches to playing, and that's what
we're going to live on the court and in the
practice facility, and that's where we can plug you in
and here's what it can do for you. You know.
(37:37):
So I look at this season and I say to myself, yes,
I have questions about the roles, and maybe there'll be
roles and players and situations that won't work as well.
But I look at that as a nice runway to
bring in recruits who can help in those specific areas
where Indiana looks deficient, because you could say, all we're
missing out of this equation is you. Let's get you
(37:59):
in here, and let's you elevate this system to something
even greater. And look what we did even without that
particular piece in place.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Very well, said Galen. I know you've got to run
here shortly. You got a busy week with with students
arriving on campus quickly. How are things going at the
maybe hopefully not too low of a question. How are
things going? I know how things are going with some
of your students because some of them have interacted with
very closely with the last couple of years, and it's
been exciting to see some of them go into the
(38:28):
ural world, get jobs and have a new group of
students that are gonna be writing for me this year.
So the Media School continues to do great things. Glad
that we've been able to continue to communicate on that,
and you've always been gracious and helpful helping to identify
students that might be a great fit friendside the hall.
But just quickly, how are things going with the Media
School and excited for another year to begin.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Things are going great. We have never had more students
in the Media School. We're about twenty five hundred students
at the undergraduate level. Sports media has been doing awesome.
We got over three hundred students in that program and
they work on a variety of things. It's not just
the folks that you guys get to know inside the hall,
but it's also the behind the scenes folks that are
doing production. All those big ten plus games, those are
(39:13):
all student produced, and that's a lot of the people
in this program. So we've been really proud of what
our students have accomplished. A big shout out to Kara Adams,
who won the LEAs A Buyington Award with the Big
Ten Network as the best female student broadcaster last year.
We've got a great group of students coming in this season,
many of whom have already been working covering other sports,
(39:36):
and we've one of the things that might be interesting
to all your football fans now that you're covering it.
We're going to have a live show from Memorial Stadium
Thursday nights at eight. The IUSTV is going to be
doing You can check out Crimson Cast Twitter account. We'll
retweet it so everybody can watch. But some great things
going on here and couldn't be happier to come into
another football and basketball season and get a chance to
(39:58):
cover everything.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, it's great to see students excited about covering football.
I mean, that's one reason we're adding it this year.
Josh was pretty adamant that he wanted to cover football
and with the success and you know, I thought it
was a great opportunity to start doing that. To look
for that and obviously continue to listen to Crimson cast
to back Home Network. Check everything out that they're doing
over there. Galing again, thanks again for the time, and
(40:20):
thanks for thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Thanks as always, Al, it's great to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
If you enjoy podcasts on the Brink, please leave us
a rating and review over on Apple Podcast, leave us
a five star rating over on Spotify, and we'll be
back next week with another episode podcast on the braink
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.