August 29, 2025 • 44 mins
Popcorn Psychology LIVE at FanExpo Chicago 2025!!! Panel 1 of 2 on Thunderbolts and When Marvel Gets Mental Health Right!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi every one, and how are you guys? Good morning,
Thank you for making here kind of first day on
the last day, I'm fax.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We appreciate everyone coming out of right someday.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
To see us.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We have a good crowd.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Loved it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
How many of you guys have seen with other roles?
I hope okay, god like because you will say, gonna
spoil all the head out of it. So I'm not
everybody you're up to day in cause you're wondering.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Guess you are addressed as little jackets, Missy Panama queen.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
I'm a random.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Player fighting for her life, you know, and homage to
the wilderness.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
But anyhow, so we are off part psychology.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
We are a podcast and we are local to Chicago.
We have been doing this since twenty eighteen. We are
a three licensed therapists. My name's Frankie, Missus Hannah, why
yours friend. Yeah, we're all LIFs is clinical professional counselors
in the state of Illinois.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So we don't just talk about this stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
We actually see clients all the time and we like
talking about movies as a way that to teach mental health,
Like you.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Know, it's woin full of sugar. Helps about a single guy.
So it's a way to teach people about mental health.
Is about being too.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Academic, too boring, and also doesn't cause anyone knows if
you're a licensed therapist, are not just be talking about
real people and then diagnosing haadness you don't work with them.
So we talk about fictional characters exclusively, and if you
like when you're here today, we actually just did a
full blown, like two hour episode on Vunderaboles, So if
you want the full full version of this why we're
(01:38):
in here today, you can find it there. So we're
gonna keep it somewhat dense for say four five minutes.
We are three diligent gappers, so we're gonna do our best.
And yeah, so we wanted to do Vunderbolts as well
because it's a movie that I wasn't expecting to feel
so impressed with as a therapist. I don't know if
you guys all of the way as well, And it's
(02:00):
a movie that I feel like Cancel's mental health with
a lot of grace, a lot of as much as
accurate as you can get when trooper powers aren't halved,
and it's.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
A lot of compassion.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
So and also a first job I wanna give a
trigger warning is we're gonna be talking about trauma, We're
gonna be talking about KSD or if you're talking about
all those kind of things.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So that's a delican subject. Pop will not feel any
kind of way if you have to the most.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
So I guess you could kick off with what does
this movie get so right about mental health?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
What did we see in it?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right on the jump where we're like we need to
talk about this movie and needing to drive them to
see a first secon's not enough to solve it exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I feel like one of the things I noticed right
away was the way that Yolena was even dressed in
the beginning of the film, Right, She's not dressed in
her leathered up outfit. She's in sweatpants, like playing at
a sweatshirt, and she's still doing her job, but you
can tell that she's lost her purpose. And that's a
really good way to show somebody who's not even willing
(03:01):
to show up the way they usually do for their job.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And it was a really funny display of someone in
or assassinating assassinating assassination, Yeah, is their job, and yet
how are they phoning in how are they showing up
to the office their office?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Hell of the press?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Did that got pants? Going through the motions or what
they're doing. Even though it is like a high stress environment,
which is actually something you can see when.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
People are brunt out. Even when they do high stress jobs.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
And experience that depression, they can be weirdly common and chill,
even if groom around them's.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Kind of freaking out. And how they stipulity.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Did you see you?
Speaker 6 (03:40):
In her monologue right away, she's narrating depression. Whoever wrote
that either consulting with some professionals or hads dealt with
it theirself. But do you see a lot of very.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Clear I mean, yeah, I'm here doing a thing. I
guess it's gonna happen to right died today. That's faring man.
I don't even care to say then.
Speaker 6 (04:02):
I'll beg ns okay, all right, now, you're gonna do
the thing you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Oh you well, okay, y'all.
Speaker 7 (04:10):
Stomach, very flat affect, very moneton, very grosse m just
down close self esteem moment for her right in the beginning.
That sets its home for this mental health.
Speaker 8 (04:24):
And the pink Lave.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It's also a good characterization of someone who went through
childhood trauma, and not just childhood trauma in the US,
but also the kind where she's not supposed to.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Be your own person.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
But even though that's not in an extreme way with
like the Red Room and then you're used to child
assassin obviously pretty intense states. I think you could also
see her presentation kind of similar to like bombs to
talk about where you're not supposed to develop into your
own person. That's a kind of a I don't know
if I wanna say, it's like a not so well
(04:59):
discus best consequence or side effect or symptom of being
of us solt by a frontal figure not having a
safe space at home as one when you don't feel
visically safe, you don't have the room as a kid
to play around and like figure out who am I,
what do I like?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
What do I like to do in my free time?
And how do I like to dress? What do I
like to watch on TV?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
With someone like Elida when she says that monologue later
like I just go home and I stare at my
phone and I don't know whoy and I drink and
I more and I go home as much as that's
obviously her and shut down of her trauma. I think
you could also argue that that is the consequence of
being raised to not be your own person. Obviously, there's,
(05:44):
like I said, the vata layer of mogration to make
her like a little feeling.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Or not feeling machine. But I think with her it
does still show that.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
You don't have the space to become your own person,
which I think we see in Bob two, you know
what I mean, he doesn't know who he is either
as an adults.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Which is a pot I done, not being able to
become his own person's kid.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, when you have to be an adult right away.
Or even with Gilena, I mean she's drugged. We see
her being drugged and black widow like she doesn't have
a chance to explore about I think that's what Brittany
is talking about. There's no there's no root for that.
You're trying to survive and that's all you're trying to do.
That's all you have the energy forward.
Speaker 8 (06:29):
That's all that you can do.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Like I feel like the other part with Yelena that
I really enjoyed was also full enjoyed as whatever it
was really.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Good, Appreciate it. Appreciate it.
Speaker 8 (06:40):
Yeah, that's a better way to say appreciate it. Is
also how vulnerable she is.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
She's one of the she's one of the characters that
is comfortable being vulnerable, and I think that in some
ways that's a younger part of herself. But when she
yells at Alexei about you weren't here, why didn't you come.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And see me? I've been sad for a year.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
And even when we see her go through her rooms, uh,
when they're doing the when they have to go through
the different parts.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Of themselves, and we see her see herself leaning up
against the tub and she's just blackout, drown and it's like,
this is someone who when she says in her speech
to Alexei, I've lost my purpose, I.
Speaker 8 (07:21):
Don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I don't I don't know where.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
I'm going, like, and you weren't there for me, and
I really need you to be there for me.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
And I really thought that that was a really honest
but very vulnerable way to show her character kind of
shifting and changing, but also knowing that she needs help,
she needs something, she needs someone else.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I agree with all those points. I think for me
and the personal moment in stood out was when.
Speaker 7 (07:47):
Bob touched Lena for the first time when the vault
and you see her flashback into that moment of the
little girl whatever she was setting on.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Moments like that, what's traumatic moments.
Speaker 7 (08:00):
Glut in people's subconscious in their mind constantly, over and
over and over and over.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It's the same thing.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
And you see her as they build upon that scene
where she's trying to change it, trying to do things differently,
and no matter what she does, it plays off.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
The same way each time, she just loses more once
a void sets it.
Speaker 7 (08:23):
That's what ultimately ends up happening with people who have
something that they feel ashamed and deeply guilty of, some
kind of traumatic moment they went through where they weren't
able to form their own identity.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And did something that they were ordered to do. There's
a guilt that.
Speaker 7 (08:41):
Sits on people. You see it in veterans in particular
a lot, but all of us have done things we're
ashamed of and guilty about that who wish you could
take back. But it becomes this defining moment when you
don't have a secure, strong sense of self to lean into,
or a sense of who you can growing too excite that,
(09:01):
but Chlena does not until she develops this idea to
help up the people of life.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Lena has stuck prior to that point in realizing I can.
Speaker 7 (09:10):
Never be fixed, which that's in this horrible sense of
depression and shame that I don't deserve to be happy
with just an.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Extra layer of complications.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
And and then what's also heartbreaking is that the person
she wants to go to for how is obviously a
like city cause it's the supposest thing she has to
a parent, to a family now at this point, and
he's just as lost as she is. He's also in
a very similar bucket where he doesn't know who he is.
He was encouraged transformed into a symbol of new people.
(09:45):
All his validation's external, So to go to someone like him,
it's kind of like, I don't know, it's sort of
like inter generational trauma, Like you try to look up
the family tree for an answer, but they might not
have one because they didn't.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Get the you know, those skills either, And so then
you kind of feel either.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Stuck together or kind of like she does, where you
feel resentful towards them too, of.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Like why can't you give me what I need, and
he kind of says like his.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Self esteem is so so almost warm, his self esteem
is so bad that he's like, I didn't even think
you would want to talk to me. And so we're
just we're at an impasse or we can't help each
other's feel better. Cause even in that conversation at the beginning,
he's still also trying.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
To get that need bet and he's like, give me
on your team. Gives ound like over, I wanna be
out there doing it. I got my limos service.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
And I think that's the moment where you can see
that he's just a person too, the way that I
think sometimes you have to realize your parent is just
a person as well, and a person that, oh, well
disappoint you.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
They are not gonna have the things that you need.
You have to find them on side of yourself.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And and also I think we see the movie that
she can't get to a place where she can have
it with him until she can somewhat accept it.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
That's why at the end when he's being that like.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Trashy dad with a jumpsuit and the avenged with the ze,
like she's letting him do his thing in the corner
of the tower doing his merch or whatever, and she's like,
do your thing. I don't need you and you do
not be this person for me to be a good leader,
a competent person, to figure out who lie in and
to have one with me.
Speaker 8 (11:29):
Now I know someone.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I'm sure you guys are all wanting us to talk about.
As about is Bob. I think Bob will really take
away for a lot of people from this movie.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I also forgot to stay up front if any point,
if anyone has questions, you can either raise your hand
and shout come at us. There's also a microphone as
it would vary bad so you can also venture back
there as a.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Moment, but you can also just coom a hand. So
what do we think about with Bob? He's the central piece.
People argue that his mental health quote unquote is the
villain the movie. Would you guy agree with that?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Statements extensis slabars, I'm so sorry, and this was lit
bring in my ear and you were joking and you know.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
My rivers, I say, what do you think about Bob?
And Bob the idea that Bob's mental health is the
real enemy.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Of the movie, real want of the movie, and I
think that's makes super clear for us that Bob having
miaular disord is.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
The real villain of the film.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
Bob's instability. Bob presents and kind of warns the characters
like no, no, it's it's it's better off that I
just you know, don't because they're seeing his conditioning of
what he learned to do to be safe from an
abusive father, which was not engaged.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
He wanted to be the hero. He wanted to do something.
He wanted to protect his mom, but every time he did,
he got punished for me.
Speaker 8 (12:56):
So what do you wanted to be the hero?
Speaker 7 (12:58):
He wanted to be the hero, which means he's got
two separate parts of him that form to survive, that
part that couldn't do anything, it couldn't win, and the
part of him that well as a hero. And you
see both sides of it with Century and Boyd and
show up. And it's something that happens to all of us.
When you can get something that makes you feel like
(13:20):
you have the solution, but you're restricted from using it.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
It stays inside of you.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
That part stays unused, activated, but no way to complete itself.
It does not have a way to complete it from loop. Normally,
if you get sad about something, you cry. If somebody
makes you mad, you tell them about it and you
reach a solution ideally, but Bob never gets to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
So Boyd and Century exists inside.
Speaker 7 (13:47):
Of him is two separate, unactualized parts, where then Bob
is the manager of the two and seeing him have
to struggle with that as each become unrestricted.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
As Century becomes unrestricted, he realizes he, for one, can.
Speaker 7 (14:00):
Do anything and even the person who gives a power
of the minute he sniffs out Valentina, he tries to
snap her neck, right, that's not how heroes behave.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
But also if she's a villain, I guess complicated for him.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And something we make sure to talk about in more
depth in the full podcast episode is that Bob is.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Someone too that even like diagnostically, you would need to
work with you for a while as a therapist.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Do you even get a sense of what's go Bob like,
He dislays a lot of symptoms like.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Veneese of by polar loses a grander in my highes
but lows, but he also has a lot of trauma.
He also talks about basically associating right like and he
loses time in these moments when a part of him,
just the century comes to the front.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
And then also he's someone that stuff things.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Like matt to things and so and so with him,
you also wanna make sure that like how much is
his presentation, his mood swings to.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Their ability is.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Just leaving his lack of forethought things like that, how
much of that's tied up and substance use too, Like
he's someone that if we worked with him, we want
him if he can, if he's ready to be even
like sober for a while before we can even get
a good sense of what are his symptoms, how much
are they connected to doing something? I mean that there's
no drugs obviously that's a drug that we would have
(15:26):
to dure. How much that is adding to how he's
doing and how he's feeling. Because with someone like Bob two,
they've been suffering and having stuff going on for so
long that it also becomes that thing of like who
am I outside of my trauma?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Like do I even know who I am?
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Because all this stuff started so young, similar to and
yelling up and the important.
Speaker 7 (15:51):
To understand with people who have like holed this sort
of substance use becomes a really big proponent because when
they're depressed, they want nothing more than to feel.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Better, and because they.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
Deal with elation as the whole people are opposite of depression,
that becomes their defining understanding of happiness. And anything less
than that does he feel right, particularly not when you're depressed.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
So if this becomes your.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
Standards to feel you good, it makes sense that as
soon as he gets depressed, he's going to start seeking
oppers like men, because he's looking for that related feeling.
Whereas then when he's realizing he's too high, he's gonna
seek downers because they're trying to find this balance.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But bipolar two poles, right, it's really really challenging, especially
once people are off their.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
Mets, because mets sort of want the ability to get
elation that it creates this.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Constant struggle, so they start seeking substances to match. And
it may or may not take your meditation to you.
He said, we've got question space.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So if you're out about that.
Speaker 8 (16:59):
Mm of every thinking about phone as well as feeling,
as long, can you speak of just a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I'm so sorry. I knew find go ahead, I knew
I do appreciate the.
Speaker 9 (17:18):
Whole figure of recommodation. How did I feel a least
include posib.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
In y and I anything a like glad ever one
someone makes that pe embarrassing with the inside altitude moving,
I mean like I bel like I think you move
on that. It's so like that see like whom.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Maybe it's still villain and you show a little like
Kee has this? How if someone who also had a
better any villain? Oh for sure?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
And I think that's why, like we try to be
very clear, especially more in they send an episode that
who we're guessing kids by polar he can they kind
of give him like mental health suit, which they do
a lot of movies where they're kind of picking and
choosing the most significant or sexist or like intense symptoms
(18:18):
of a of a grab back of mental health stuff
just in slat.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Mental health or psychology on it. So you're right, and
that's his version of bipolar.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
How much does he even have? How much of it
moved attached to others off as well? And I would
argue that Valentine now is the real villain of this
movie h and that she exacerbates him and takes advantage
of him re traumatizes him and that's what really pushes
everything to the next level.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And I think something, well, how I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Wants to get to in a second is also I
appreciate it kind of coming from the middle of ize
and mental health. But at the end I was really
worried when he was punching, he was ground and pounding
that part of him that I was like, this can't
be how it ends punching yourself into submission and.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Like being like hum you know as true.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
And so the fact that they went at it was
love actually and pulled that away and kind of showed
that if you are becoming like fighting fire with fire
with like the most adro protectives reactive parts of yourself, like,
that's not actually what feeling looks like, and that's not
what strength looks like. It is loving that part of
(19:28):
yourself because that is you, and that part of you
is trying to help you out.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's intentions are good.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I like to joke in therapy if it's not clients,
it's like that friend that picks it has your back
all the time by.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Fighting and you're like, don't, don't, don't start it.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Now, I'm more stressed out about you fighting what's first
on the street than the thing in itself.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Your intentions are good, your delivery is not helping.
Speaker 9 (19:52):
I tell you out of an after that as you
ownly concludens you all in delahood.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah, I know what you're saying, and honestly, associating during
that time period is actually pretty.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Accurate to me and would and would almost be a
natural response to you know, a lot of times, especially
as kids, we have to.
Speaker 8 (20:25):
Be in this veil or going at it.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
As kids, we don't have a lot of options in
terms of what can we do when someone is being
hurt or we're going to be hurt. Right, So a
lot of times, two of the things that happened that
I see when I work with clients who have a
lot of childhood trauma.
Speaker 8 (20:44):
Is I lost my train of thought buck associating that.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
They either fawn, which means you you have to agree
to whatever is happening.
Speaker 8 (21:00):
Because you don't have a choice.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
A little kid can't really leave, a little kid can't fight,
a little kid can't They sometimes freeze.
Speaker 8 (21:08):
It's freeze and fond is what I see a lot
with people.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And so I think it's really accurate that Bob, because
that was all traumatic, Like that whole experience for him
is traumatic. I think it makes a lot of sense
that that's where his body went. You know, A big
part of a big part of trauma is that we
hold it in our bodies, and Bob definitely is holding.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
In his body, right.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And I think it's really when I talk to clients
about different parts of themselves and we talk about how
kind of what Bertie was talking about, But I all
the different parts play different roles that come from different.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
Ages a lot of the time.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So I really feel like Bob was in his maybe
like a really really young part when we mis dissociating.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
Yeah, I mean I get where see'l sciritating, like that
character growth is lost or where it's masterful writing.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
He gives us just the every's slightest clue.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
That he knows that if I let this guy back out,
I can't contain So the only option I have is.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
This muted safe mode version, which is his only identity
right now. He's like, I can help you guys by
like cleaning, but at the NBA, the superhero who's that
ends a god because I can't contain the other guy.
Speaker 7 (22:23):
So realizing the right contains just as ever slight about clues,
then give it a rewatch, and it might not resonate
the same way.
Speaker 8 (22:32):
Render what what happened to the.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
He's pretty so much? And I didn't no shuting backgun.
But Bob hasn't dealt with his yuilt yet. So all
the stuff that he did, all the trauma he radiated
out upon New.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
York City, he's got a lot of guilt. And they
of her the questions, they're really great.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
That's like they have one ar But thank you so.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
Much, coul.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Then doing well, why I and I think that we're
the top of the laws.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
So you know, alas are sort of our cultivates some pression.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Does it serve?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Doesn't confer to know about what it is? How person your.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Shoes?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Like the idea of like the punching himself the band
tip thing, Yes, yeah, I think it's a I mean
it's a great.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I think it is a great, like challenging he's a
plot for all the people who do still, which I
get why they do it.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Still believe that the best course to dealing with anything
is too round and founded, you know, like to to conquer.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
It, to submit, like to make it submit to you.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
This idea of like shoving, shoving down how you feel
and like I can just conquer these bad hearts of me,
because it does one of two things right. It continues
to put perractuate the idea that there are parts of
me that are bad and that deserve to be treated
the way that maybe my dad and his situation treated him.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So one is to recreated this idea that the.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Appropriate healthy clothing response is violence, is aggression towards ourselves
without other people, and which makes sense if you're at.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
A parent, then also do that to you.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
And so that is the solution, and it's it's it
keeps you stuck in a cycle, and it keeps you
hating yourself, like you can't hate yourself well and you
can't white numple yourself well too, And I think that
version of.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
It is very true.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
And what we do see instead, which is real strength,
is vulnerability, y'all.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Being vulnerable is very strong and allowing people to.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Witness your vulnerability as well, which is what this movie does.
Is even with the question you're saying earlier about him
like losing that time and that growth, is that he
did all this in front of his friends though his
support system now so they can talk to him later about, Hey,
so this is what we saw and this is what
we noticed, and so they can help him recount that
(25:13):
time that his loss in a I assume a pretty
constructive way, cause we haven't talked about me and Buddy
and Elena are both good mirrors too, Bob about you know,
we have really bad pass We've done really bad things
when we weren't in control of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
And how do we as a group.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
All of that sympathy for each other and having that
anthy count seven fifty versus too?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
And I feel like another another part of all of
this with Bob is that I keep closing my train
of thought. I'm famous for that, uh on the podcast,
something I'd never remember. So something else about trauma in
general is that you have to go through the trauma.
Speaker 8 (26:02):
There's only way. There's only one way through, and it is.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Through, and.
Speaker 8 (26:08):
That's an It's there, it's in there.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
No matters. No, I don't know who's going from babies.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I think the scenes we're.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
Talking about what we see Avengers to where they're teaching
each other ultivation is really similar to if you saw
at the end have been said out too, where they
learned that anxiety is a part of the system. Anxiety
has a function, but we have to keep it in
a box. Anxiety is the space that exists between the
perception of the threat and the resolution of it.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
If you don't resolve the threat, you don't stop being anxious.
That's what it's for. Same with our fight part, same
with our fond part. So the idea of you can.
Speaker 7 (26:55):
Suppress and beat down one of these parts was a
part of you if you were born with this part
of your survival system is not true. And then showing
Bob becoming shadowed just like Boyd was a really another
masterpiece of filmmaking. Really showing hold on Bunkie's like this
doesn't feel right, this isn't right good, I would stop this.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
And then that's sort of the must.
Speaker 7 (27:19):
Have read the poem about you cannot cast out darkness
with darkness, only light to do that. That is clearly inspiration,
at least in my mind, to this movie is showing
you can't just crush your fight part. You're fighting, that's
what it wants. It wants you to submit and become
the part that has limited function because that's the only
(27:41):
lens through which it sees the world. Your fight part
thinks it's a great idea to punch a person in
the face who's making you really angry.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
What our other self parts come in and regulate us
and go like, hold, that's a bad idea for all
these reasons.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
If you go like good, good, good, point good point,
super eight up should not one that person the base
of the grocery store about us in mine not paying
attention on their phone.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
That's inappropriate, got it? We go to jails.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well on top of it or Arbor movies and usual.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Boss l oh that I cannot read, o Pa, I'm
so sorry, but the announcement, it's just that you would
beat loveless.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
How does we send a challenge of traditional super work
here and stay present a more realistic one?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh beautifully, how perfectly having bomb couldus be sitting.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
In a corner reading a book, even like drinking a
frappuccino is I was so impressed by that and things
because that you're right, that is so a typical.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
We usually see that. He's like fine, yeah, like.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
You just find out and you can be a superhero
and nothing's wrong. And and I think in an earlier
movie in a simpler action movie.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
That is what happened it.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
They feel very nomal that he is not only not
part of really the fighting right now, that there isn't
really a guarantee when and if he will be. And
I also love how Bucky and Elana are life. He's fine,
he's fine in the corner and leave him alone. I
feel like Bob a most feels like they're there chance
(29:27):
to do it differently. Yeah, with someone like kind of
younger and more vulnerable than them to help somebody through
it in the same way.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, I've been knowing that's when Maybe that's when they wanted,
right And that's the thing that I forgot, which is
not only do we need to go through the trauma,
but we also a lot we need a witness.
Speaker 8 (29:44):
We need somebody to witness that so they can validate
our experience.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And that's something that Bob will.
Speaker 8 (29:50):
Get with Laina and Bucky.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
For sure, what do you do?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
But you've been the earlier if you heard the maybe
remember around are you put your little how.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
The arms of you know?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Its like that?
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And there.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Sure I think that I probably watched Iron Man three,
the Sooners side of all of these people sitting next
to me, I really feel like they didn't. They did
a good job showing his physical response of anxiety. I
think the difference though, is that he is able. He's
just kind of fine by the end of the movie.
And people do go through a period of time to
(30:40):
see somebody who's experiencing panic attacks. Then we have a
period of time where we're figuring out what helps with
panic attacks, and that could take a little while because
it's about grounding, and it's about finding what grounds you
and though, and there's so many different ways to do grounding,
Like if you look it up on the internet, it's
like a thousand different options for that.
Speaker 8 (30:59):
What I think is really for people to have coping
skills that they can use without needing anything.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Else for panic attacks.
Speaker 8 (31:08):
And so I really feel like they did it.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
They did an okay job in terms of what his
body felt like, but in terms that the mental processes
that have.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
To take place, yeah, they they should have been And
I would also say.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
To that movie about like Marvels first step into really
trying to talk about the real world's psychological consequences of
the movies they're in, Whereas now I think that's such
more of a moving part of mainstream culture that it
would feel kind of wild now to have movies like
this where it's not part of it at all.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
So I think also where I think.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
About movies and slack is that this wouldn't kind of
be like maybe believe we've had a little psychology to
spice it up and he knew we.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I mean that time when our podcast is.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Not a lot of ways is how movies will try
to do that, but then they will do too much
charity what they want to work for the story, or
they just get it like dead and then rama they
want their.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Cookies for, like saying anything about mental health.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 7 (32:11):
I think iron Man three really almost got there, but
then they started figuring out much much more bicivil woods where.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
They had Tony going through his VR scene where society
of course the thing he used is to demonstrate it.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
How could it not be his childhood drama of or
beating the scene He wishes he could have done something
different than you. There are therapies that help you do
exactly that, psychodrama being one of them, as well as
a narrative therapy even some work in the ADR where
you can help people work through those moments where they
wish they would have done something different, but it has
(32:46):
to come with the caveat of remember your approaching your
past self with your present knowledge, and that's not fair
to where you were then. You did not have then
the knowledge of how it could go. You were trying
to survive and doing the best you could. It is
okay to wish it had gone differently, and even to
play it out as if it had, but you also
(33:08):
must do that with a random acceptance that I couldn't
do that then, but I learned from.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
It so that I can use that to be something else.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Now are you thinking of your Okay, I'm wondering, so
like to show Bucky goes to a therapist.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
You kind of response to the like to me, I
don't know if you like that. When you think about
vendoring there present of like if you can do with people?
Do you think you do mean to not being instagrams.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I think that Bob and Bucky need two very different therapists.
The therapist that we see and felt in a Winter
Soldier that is what Bucky needs.
Speaker 8 (34:00):
I know a lot of people had a.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Lot of feelings about the way that she was represented,
but he really needed somebody who's been in the shit
and knows what the shit is, and it's gonna push
you on.
Speaker 8 (34:10):
I'm sorry, it's gonna push you. It's gonna be.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Able to push you a little bit in terms of
I lots between the pot well challenging Hilary and he's
coming in with people in his place are coming into
therapy because they're being made to go to therapy.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
You do need a little bit of.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
That pushing through the resistance, acknowledging the attitude.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Like I used to work a lot with teenagers who
didn't wanna be in my office.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
And so he kind of had to have a similar
or not she's a little meaner. But also I think
it's hard for me with about the therapist things. If
I love money so much that I just wanted him
to be held like a delicate flower baby by someone.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
So I'm like, oh man, this is my whole way
New world lucky. But now, Bob, I need someone with
a lot of unconditional positive regard, a lot of softness,
a lot of positivity, and like po of approbations.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
He feels like a client who would be always apologizing
for his own therapy and dobbing on himself and something
I would.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Have to work on him within the moment. Even the
therapy is like, let's how do you reframe that? Can
think catch when you wanna apologize even to me? And
is that something we can work through?
Speaker 4 (35:19):
And so he would need a much gentle er trauma
focused therapists that was very different than the kind of
therapist you worked with Bets and things like that. First
responders and people that have how did you create such
your health exterior to get through their situations.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I don't know about the laying though in terms of
her therap like kind of therapist you have.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Somewhere between somewhere, Rishay I I'm I work with firsts oners.
There's my primary job I had the military, and the
way that that was depicted in the show was really
similar to what you would have to be and what
I mean people.
Speaker 7 (36:00):
Because despite all the stuff that they go through, remembering
the first responders, military have dealt with trauma.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Beyond what civilians would possibly understand.
Speaker 7 (36:10):
In most cases, sometimes you can everyone's looking life and
you don't assume, but the stuff that they see every
single day is immensely morble and people call them for
the worst moments.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Of their life.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
All shift, every shift for first responders in particular, it's
in the city they live in, not like war or
you go somewhere else. It's every day and having caravas
that can be a little more. Uh No, try and
get kind of energy like she had or like.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
And she says like, I'm the only person in your
own that sad. Like if you lived up before the client,
you can say stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Kind of match her to right to.
Speaker 7 (36:52):
The Virginia can be helpful, cause otherwise you're you're failing
to test if their parts.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Trying to go like does this person really understand?
Speaker 7 (37:00):
And she had to you know, like I understanding and
see you and to see what you do, where as
her Bob absolutely not. Bob makes a lot of development
of sense of self needs someone to guide and nurture. Eventually,
Bob's going it needs someone that can help both through
the darkness and learn to redefine what roll.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
It has in your life. But Bob is nowhere near there.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
You you great, Paste, and anyone else have any question
me as about so eight more minutes.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
So if anyone has any other questions, you can go
three we do. Also if you just talk to Toob
and Song, we can.
Speaker 10 (37:39):
Hundreds of hours we tapics of that, yeah, and none
does that thing we really have to talk about too
is bun me and how I think also the does
a good job of something does to just become a
congress person and he stood.
Speaker 7 (37:51):
In doing that.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
We also see like their beautifully psychologically to do a
great job of her friends, someone who is trying to
fit their our whole skill set enjoying you persona in
any market people's that sended her to the side and
he's like, I did she taptile? The assistant tactile senders
like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
I'm not doing this weird essigonage stuff with you, missus
conors with the packet, Who's like, are you think continuing?
And so I just wanna have to think about that
and various question Yes.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Uh, do you see the thing that you took that.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Way?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
You Sally person she's.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
But when you're.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Mm, yeah, I love that question.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
So I am your certified and uh definitely a department here.
Speaker 7 (38:51):
Yes, there are a lot of things that they do
as they kind of build and for a reaction to
each one, you see if her starting to notice different stimulight.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
It's an excellent patch of that because any and the arthurpy.
What a lot of people start noticing is.
Speaker 7 (39:05):
You get both sides of your brain online. You realize
each low storage memories. It's not one central memory bank
we have in our brain. Each way we encountered the stimuli,
all our five senses get stored in the brain in
a different spot. So as she's focusing on a different
stimuli of it, noticing she has to read process each
(39:26):
one of those before she can start healing. Flo That
is a great question of great observation to it.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yes, very much so. The only thing I see to.
Speaker 7 (39:33):
Do it better was like where they put brought out
in a light bar and had light flashing across the
scene in the last episode.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
With his mom.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yep, how does the film span it? And you're sure
for your poor power that medicor oh, it's really great.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Earlier they have kind of a vibe of the other
therapy and almost like an open group where in your therapy,
an open grouping is that people can join uh, new
members can join the group as kind of goes on
like a AA is the that is probably ad version
of an open group in that way, and a closed
group is the same group of people can start the
(40:20):
first session of ORPIMB together and they go the whole
time together just then. And what the power of having
or open dynamic is so I mentioned earlier, which is
that someone like Buffy has already gone through therapy, has
already done a lot of his work. We're seeing him
in a much more actualized, chilled out place, and he
(40:40):
can quote model that for Lena.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
John's gonna mean that for sure, did you ever mentioned Bob?
Speaker 4 (40:48):
And also he can show them that there is another
side this, like if you can work on this stuff,
that you can get into shame, like I'm over here
and who can come to me, Like it's possible to
work there. Something even says that earlier than you meet
when he encounters them, and he's like, if you guys
don't figure out how to change this up for yourself,
(41:09):
it's gonna follow you. You need to figure out how
to have a purpose now that is yours and I'm
doing mad and it's working, and and so it gives.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
You a lot of hope to be able to see
people that have a little bit part of your WNG
on on the journey, cause the journey is hard or
it can work.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
And so and also when you're down to know some
the rest you can't really see the future and at
all like drama, is that the ression is that and
so it gives you someone that you can see and
touch and feel that is sort of a future version
of yourself hypothetically.
Speaker 11 (41:45):
Yeah, I think a piece example gives people an actual
look at you don't have to stay in this place
where you have yourself contained and stuck in order to
be safe, because people's depression and trauma teachers that I'm
only say in.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
This circle right here, just like I am, That's the
only way I can be safe. I took all my
life to figure this out, and it's unsafe to step
outside of it.
Speaker 7 (42:07):
And they really struggle to realize that was true at
one point and is why you formed this Maybe subtle pots,
but Bucky is starting to show Ava, John, all of
these other characters right that, hey, m, we.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Keep these skills, but be beyond this was like we
got you got a question again?
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Love it M.
Speaker 7 (42:41):
Yeah, I think there could have been a lot more
development with Ava in particular. Yeah, I thought, uh fringing
task master of this lane. But in particular Ava was
enough president in the story kind of showing her unique
skills and identity, but we don't think got a slack
(43:01):
glimpse of her. I think we got some good looks
at John and some a little bit more at Alexei.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
But I think we really missed out on developing Ava
as a character. And I would like to see that
and maybe as they build we will see that.
Speaker 7 (43:16):
Yeah, this movie felt like a D and D campaign
to be where your head rogue fighter, cleric and u
uh the warlock and to the ranger that we're talking.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
So I feel like we we did. We underdeveloped our
rogue in Dava.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
I like, well, she does the invisibal stuff and she's
the quietly whying like, oh look I found a place.
I'm doing the right thing, but nobody sees me that
needs to be a dynamic in the next movie.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Were welcome. So we only have one one more minutes.
We're gonna wrap it up. Will you if you you
ever asking so many thoughtful questions? Is there everybody on
that at that point you appreciate.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
That if anyone wants any little you know, merchant things,
you have hands, you times, live your young fo fends.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Don't you have traps?
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Say je second chapter we have tastic church, but Also,
if you.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Found this satistic and you wanna find this, We're called
Uncouplin Psychology. We are a panel were not getting. We're
a podcast that operates out of Chicago.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
We have a zillion.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
Episodes that you've been going for eating season, we talk
about this, We've talked about passing er.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Uh So the more we've talked about WandaVision. We've talked
about a lot of topics. So if you talk about
money a lot, it's probably why we didn't talk about
as much this discussion.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
But yeah, if you wanna check this out, you can
find us a pop from Psychology and TikTok, Facebook, Instagram.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
We're not on the X because through that.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
And yeah, to find us, to find us, Reverend I
appreciate you hanging out with us and say we'll be
back at one fifteen to talk about the last.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Of Us in the Psychology of the Apocalypse. Your
Hi every one, and how are you guys? Good morning,
Thank you for making here kind of first day on
the last day, I'm fax.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We appreciate everyone coming out of right someday.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
To see us.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We have a good crowd.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Loved it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
How many of you guys have seen with other roles?
I hope okay, god like because you will say, gonna
spoil all the head out of it. So I'm not
everybody you're up to day in cause you're wondering.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Guess you are addressed as little jackets, Missy Panama queen.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
I'm a random.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Player fighting for her life, you know, and homage to
the wilderness.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
But anyhow, so we are off part psychology.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
We are a podcast and we are local to Chicago.
We have been doing this since twenty eighteen. We are
a three licensed therapists. My name's Frankie, Missus Hannah, why
yours friend. Yeah, we're all LIFs is clinical professional counselors
in the state of Illinois.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So we don't just talk about this stuff.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
We actually see clients all the time and we like
talking about movies as a way that to teach mental health,
Like you.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Know, it's woin full of sugar. Helps about a single guy.
So it's a way to teach people about mental health.
Is about being too.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Academic, too boring, and also doesn't cause anyone knows if
you're a licensed therapist, are not just be talking about
real people and then diagnosing haadness you don't work with them.
So we talk about fictional characters exclusively, and if you
like when you're here today, we actually just did a
full blown, like two hour episode on Vunderaboles, So if
you want the full full version of this why we're
(01:38):
in here today, you can find it there. So we're
gonna keep it somewhat dense for say four five minutes.
We are three diligent gappers, so we're gonna do our best.
And yeah, so we wanted to do Vunderbolts as well
because it's a movie that I wasn't expecting to feel
so impressed with as a therapist. I don't know if
you guys all of the way as well, And it's
(02:00):
a movie that I feel like Cancel's mental health with
a lot of grace, a lot of as much as
accurate as you can get when trooper powers aren't halved,
and it's.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
A lot of compassion.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
So and also a first job I wanna give a
trigger warning is we're gonna be talking about trauma, We're
gonna be talking about KSD or if you're talking about
all those kind of things.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So that's a delican subject. Pop will not feel any
kind of way if you have to the most.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
So I guess you could kick off with what does
this movie get so right about mental health?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
What did we see in it?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right on the jump where we're like we need to
talk about this movie and needing to drive them to
see a first secon's not enough to solve it exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I feel like one of the things I noticed right
away was the way that Yolena was even dressed in
the beginning of the film, Right, She's not dressed in
her leathered up outfit. She's in sweatpants, like playing at
a sweatshirt, and she's still doing her job, but you
can tell that she's lost her purpose. And that's a
really good way to show somebody who's not even willing
(03:01):
to show up the way they usually do for their job.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And it was a really funny display of someone in
or assassinating assassinating assassination, Yeah, is their job, and yet
how are they phoning in how are they showing up
to the office their office?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Hell of the press?
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Did that got pants? Going through the motions or what
they're doing. Even though it is like a high stress environment,
which is actually something you can see when.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
People are brunt out. Even when they do high stress jobs.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
And experience that depression, they can be weirdly common and chill,
even if groom around them's.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Kind of freaking out. And how they stipulity.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Did you see you?
Speaker 6 (03:40):
In her monologue right away, she's narrating depression. Whoever wrote
that either consulting with some professionals or hads dealt with
it theirself. But do you see a lot of very.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Clear I mean, yeah, I'm here doing a thing. I
guess it's gonna happen to right died today. That's faring man.
I don't even care to say then.
Speaker 6 (04:02):
I'll beg ns okay, all right, now, you're gonna do
the thing you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Oh you well, okay, y'all.
Speaker 7 (04:10):
Stomach, very flat affect, very moneton, very grosse m just
down close self esteem moment for her right in the beginning.
That sets its home for this mental health.
Speaker 8 (04:24):
And the pink Lave.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
It's also a good characterization of someone who went through
childhood trauma, and not just childhood trauma in the US,
but also the kind where she's not supposed to.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Be your own person.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
But even though that's not in an extreme way with
like the Red Room and then you're used to child
assassin obviously pretty intense states. I think you could also
see her presentation kind of similar to like bombs to
talk about where you're not supposed to develop into your
own person. That's a kind of a I don't know
if I wanna say, it's like a not so well
(04:59):
discus best consequence or side effect or symptom of being
of us solt by a frontal figure not having a
safe space at home as one when you don't feel
visically safe, you don't have the room as a kid
to play around and like figure out who am I,
what do I like?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
What do I like to do in my free time?
And how do I like to dress? What do I
like to watch on TV?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
With someone like Elida when she says that monologue later
like I just go home and I stare at my
phone and I don't know whoy and I drink and
I more and I go home as much as that's
obviously her and shut down of her trauma. I think
you could also argue that that is the consequence of
being raised to not be your own person. Obviously, there's,
(05:44):
like I said, the vata layer of mogration to make
her like a little feeling.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Or not feeling machine. But I think with her it
does still show that.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
You don't have the space to become your own person,
which I think we see in Bob two, you know
what I mean, he doesn't know who he is either
as an adults.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Which is a pot I done, not being able to
become his own person's kid.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, when you have to be an adult right away.
Or even with Gilena, I mean she's drugged. We see
her being drugged and black widow like she doesn't have
a chance to explore about I think that's what Brittany
is talking about. There's no there's no root for that.
You're trying to survive and that's all you're trying to do.
That's all you have the energy forward.
Speaker 8 (06:29):
That's all that you can do.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Like I feel like the other part with Yelena that
I really enjoyed was also full enjoyed as whatever it
was really.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Good, Appreciate it. Appreciate it.
Speaker 8 (06:40):
Yeah, that's a better way to say appreciate it. Is
also how vulnerable she is.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
She's one of the she's one of the characters that
is comfortable being vulnerable, and I think that in some
ways that's a younger part of herself. But when she
yells at Alexei about you weren't here, why didn't you come.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And see me? I've been sad for a year.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
And even when we see her go through her rooms, uh,
when they're doing the when they have to go through
the different parts.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Of themselves, and we see her see herself leaning up
against the tub and she's just blackout, drown and it's like,
this is someone who when she says in her speech
to Alexei, I've lost my purpose, I.
Speaker 8 (07:21):
Don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I don't I don't know where.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
I'm going, like, and you weren't there for me, and
I really need you to be there for me.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
And I really thought that that was a really honest
but very vulnerable way to show her character kind of
shifting and changing, but also knowing that she needs help,
she needs something, she needs someone else.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I agree with all those points. I think for me
and the personal moment in stood out was when.
Speaker 7 (07:47):
Bob touched Lena for the first time when the vault
and you see her flashback into that moment of the
little girl whatever she was setting on.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Moments like that, what's traumatic moments.
Speaker 7 (08:00):
Glut in people's subconscious in their mind constantly, over and
over and over and over.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
It's the same thing.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
And you see her as they build upon that scene
where she's trying to change it, trying to do things differently,
and no matter what she does, it plays off.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
The same way each time, she just loses more once
a void sets it.
Speaker 7 (08:23):
That's what ultimately ends up happening with people who have
something that they feel ashamed and deeply guilty of, some
kind of traumatic moment they went through where they weren't
able to form their own identity.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And did something that they were ordered to do. There's
a guilt that.
Speaker 7 (08:41):
Sits on people. You see it in veterans in particular
a lot, but all of us have done things we're
ashamed of and guilty about that who wish you could
take back. But it becomes this defining moment when you
don't have a secure, strong sense of self to lean into,
or a sense of who you can growing too excite that,
(09:01):
but Chlena does not until she develops this idea to
help up the people of life.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Lena has stuck prior to that point in realizing I can.
Speaker 7 (09:10):
Never be fixed, which that's in this horrible sense of
depression and shame that I don't deserve to be happy
with just an.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Extra layer of complications.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
And and then what's also heartbreaking is that the person
she wants to go to for how is obviously a
like city cause it's the supposest thing she has to
a parent, to a family now at this point, and
he's just as lost as she is. He's also in
a very similar bucket where he doesn't know who he is.
He was encouraged transformed into a symbol of new people.
(09:45):
All his validation's external, So to go to someone like him,
it's kind of like, I don't know, it's sort of
like inter generational trauma, Like you try to look up
the family tree for an answer, but they might not
have one because they didn't.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Get the you know, those skills either, And so then
you kind of feel either.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Stuck together or kind of like she does, where you
feel resentful towards them too, of.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Like why can't you give me what I need, and
he kind of says like his.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Self esteem is so so almost warm, his self esteem
is so bad that he's like, I didn't even think
you would want to talk to me. And so we're
just we're at an impasse or we can't help each
other's feel better. Cause even in that conversation at the beginning,
he's still also trying.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
To get that need bet and he's like, give me
on your team. Gives ound like over, I wanna be
out there doing it. I got my limos service.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
And I think that's the moment where you can see
that he's just a person too, the way that I
think sometimes you have to realize your parent is just
a person as well, and a person that, oh, well
disappoint you.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
They are not gonna have the things that you need.
You have to find them on side of yourself.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And and also I think we see the movie that
she can't get to a place where she can have
it with him until she can somewhat accept it.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
That's why at the end when he's being that like.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Trashy dad with a jumpsuit and the avenged with the ze,
like she's letting him do his thing in the corner
of the tower doing his merch or whatever, and she's like,
do your thing. I don't need you and you do
not be this person for me to be a good leader,
a competent person, to figure out who lie in and
to have one with me.
Speaker 8 (11:29):
Now I know someone.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
I'm sure you guys are all wanting us to talk about.
As about is Bob. I think Bob will really take
away for a lot of people from this movie.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I also forgot to stay up front if any point,
if anyone has questions, you can either raise your hand
and shout come at us. There's also a microphone as
it would vary bad so you can also venture back
there as a.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Moment, but you can also just coom a hand. So
what do we think about with Bob? He's the central piece.
People argue that his mental health quote unquote is the
villain the movie. Would you guy agree with that?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Statements extensis slabars, I'm so sorry, and this was lit
bring in my ear and you were joking and you know.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
My rivers, I say, what do you think about Bob?
And Bob the idea that Bob's mental health is the
real enemy.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Of the movie, real want of the movie, and I
think that's makes super clear for us that Bob having
miaular disord is.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
The real villain of the film.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
Bob's instability. Bob presents and kind of warns the characters
like no, no, it's it's it's better off that I
just you know, don't because they're seeing his conditioning of
what he learned to do to be safe from an
abusive father, which was not engaged.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
He wanted to be the hero. He wanted to do something.
He wanted to protect his mom, but every time he did,
he got punished for me.
Speaker 8 (12:56):
So what do you wanted to be the hero?
Speaker 7 (12:58):
He wanted to be the hero, which means he's got
two separate parts of him that form to survive, that
part that couldn't do anything, it couldn't win, and the
part of him that well as a hero. And you
see both sides of it with Century and Boyd and
show up. And it's something that happens to all of us.
When you can get something that makes you feel like
(13:20):
you have the solution, but you're restricted from using it.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
It stays inside of you.
Speaker 7 (13:26):
That part stays unused, activated, but no way to complete itself.
It does not have a way to complete it from loop. Normally,
if you get sad about something, you cry. If somebody
makes you mad, you tell them about it and you
reach a solution ideally, but Bob never gets to do that.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
So Boyd and Century exists inside.
Speaker 7 (13:47):
Of him is two separate, unactualized parts, where then Bob
is the manager of the two and seeing him have
to struggle with that as each become unrestricted.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
As Century becomes unrestricted, he realizes he, for one, can.
Speaker 7 (14:00):
Do anything and even the person who gives a power
of the minute he sniffs out Valentina, he tries to
snap her neck, right, that's not how heroes behave.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
But also if she's a villain, I guess complicated for him.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And something we make sure to talk about in more
depth in the full podcast episode is that Bob is.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Someone too that even like diagnostically, you would need to
work with you for a while as a therapist.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Do you even get a sense of what's go Bob like,
He dislays a lot of symptoms like.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Veneese of by polar loses a grander in my highes
but lows, but he also has a lot of trauma.
He also talks about basically associating right like and he
loses time in these moments when a part of him,
just the century comes to the front.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
And then also he's someone that stuff things.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Like matt to things and so and so with him,
you also wanna make sure that like how much is
his presentation, his mood swings to.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Their ability is.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Just leaving his lack of forethought things like that, how
much of that's tied up and substance use too, Like
he's someone that if we worked with him, we want
him if he can, if he's ready to be even
like sober for a while before we can even get
a good sense of what are his symptoms, how much
are they connected to doing something? I mean that there's
no drugs obviously that's a drug that we would have
(15:26):
to dure. How much that is adding to how he's
doing and how he's feeling. Because with someone like Bob two,
they've been suffering and having stuff going on for so
long that it also becomes that thing of like who
am I outside of my trauma?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Like do I even know who I am?
Speaker 4 (15:46):
Because all this stuff started so young, similar to and
yelling up and the important.
Speaker 7 (15:51):
To understand with people who have like holed this sort
of substance use becomes a really big proponent because when
they're depressed, they want nothing more than to feel.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Better, and because they.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
Deal with elation as the whole people are opposite of depression,
that becomes their defining understanding of happiness. And anything less
than that does he feel right, particularly not when you're depressed.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
So if this becomes your.
Speaker 7 (16:18):
Standards to feel you good, it makes sense that as
soon as he gets depressed, he's going to start seeking
oppers like men, because he's looking for that related feeling.
Whereas then when he's realizing he's too high, he's gonna
seek downers because they're trying to find this balance.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
But bipolar two poles, right, it's really really challenging, especially
once people are off their.
Speaker 7 (16:42):
Mets, because mets sort of want the ability to get
elation that it creates this.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Constant struggle, so they start seeking substances to match. And
it may or may not take your meditation to you.
He said, we've got question space.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So if you're out about that.
Speaker 8 (16:59):
Mm of every thinking about phone as well as feeling,
as long, can you speak of just a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I'm so sorry. I knew find go ahead, I knew
I do appreciate the.
Speaker 9 (17:18):
Whole figure of recommodation. How did I feel a least
include posib.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
In y and I anything a like glad ever one
someone makes that pe embarrassing with the inside altitude moving,
I mean like I bel like I think you move
on that. It's so like that see like whom.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Maybe it's still villain and you show a little like
Kee has this? How if someone who also had a
better any villain? Oh for sure?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
And I think that's why, like we try to be
very clear, especially more in they send an episode that
who we're guessing kids by polar he can they kind
of give him like mental health suit, which they do
a lot of movies where they're kind of picking and
choosing the most significant or sexist or like intense symptoms
(18:18):
of a of a grab back of mental health stuff
just in slat.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Mental health or psychology on it. So you're right, and
that's his version of bipolar.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
How much does he even have? How much of it
moved attached to others off as well? And I would
argue that Valentine now is the real villain of this
movie h and that she exacerbates him and takes advantage
of him re traumatizes him and that's what really pushes
everything to the next level.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And I think something, well, how I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Wants to get to in a second is also I
appreciate it kind of coming from the middle of ize
and mental health. But at the end I was really
worried when he was punching, he was ground and pounding
that part of him that I was like, this can't
be how it ends punching yourself into submission and.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Like being like hum you know as true.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
And so the fact that they went at it was
love actually and pulled that away and kind of showed
that if you are becoming like fighting fire with fire
with like the most adro protectives reactive parts of yourself, like,
that's not actually what feeling looks like, and that's not
what strength looks like. It is loving that part of
(19:28):
yourself because that is you, and that part of you
is trying to help you out.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's intentions are good.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
I like to joke in therapy if it's not clients,
it's like that friend that picks it has your back
all the time by.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Fighting and you're like, don't, don't, don't start it.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Now, I'm more stressed out about you fighting what's first
on the street than the thing in itself.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Your intentions are good, your delivery is not helping.
Speaker 9 (19:52):
I tell you out of an after that as you
ownly concludens you all in delahood.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Yeah, I know what you're saying, and honestly, associating during
that time period is actually pretty.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Accurate to me and would and would almost be a
natural response to you know, a lot of times, especially
as kids, we have to.
Speaker 8 (20:25):
Be in this veil or going at it.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
As kids, we don't have a lot of options in
terms of what can we do when someone is being
hurt or we're going to be hurt. Right, So a
lot of times, two of the things that happened that
I see when I work with clients who have a
lot of childhood trauma.
Speaker 8 (20:44):
Is I lost my train of thought buck associating that.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
They either fawn, which means you you have to agree
to whatever is happening.
Speaker 8 (21:00):
Because you don't have a choice.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
A little kid can't really leave, a little kid can't fight,
a little kid can't They sometimes freeze.
Speaker 8 (21:08):
It's freeze and fond is what I see a lot
with people.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And so I think it's really accurate that Bob, because
that was all traumatic, Like that whole experience for him
is traumatic. I think it makes a lot of sense
that that's where his body went. You know, A big
part of a big part of trauma is that we
hold it in our bodies, and Bob definitely is holding.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
In his body, right.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
And I think it's really when I talk to clients
about different parts of themselves and we talk about how
kind of what Bertie was talking about, But I all
the different parts play different roles that come from different.
Speaker 8 (21:44):
Ages a lot of the time.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So I really feel like Bob was in his maybe
like a really really young part when we mis dissociating.
Speaker 7 (21:53):
Yeah, I mean I get where see'l sciritating, like that
character growth is lost or where it's masterful writing.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
He gives us just the every's slightest clue.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
That he knows that if I let this guy back out,
I can't contain So the only option I have is.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
This muted safe mode version, which is his only identity
right now. He's like, I can help you guys by
like cleaning, but at the NBA, the superhero who's that
ends a god because I can't contain the other guy.
Speaker 7 (22:23):
So realizing the right contains just as ever slight about clues,
then give it a rewatch, and it might not resonate
the same way.
Speaker 8 (22:32):
Render what what happened to the.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
He's pretty so much? And I didn't no shuting backgun.
But Bob hasn't dealt with his yuilt yet. So all
the stuff that he did, all the trauma he radiated
out upon New.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
York City, he's got a lot of guilt. And they
of her the questions, they're really great.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
That's like they have one ar But thank you so.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
Much, coul.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Then doing well, why I and I think that we're
the top of the laws.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
So you know, alas are sort of our cultivates some pression.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Does it serve?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Doesn't confer to know about what it is? How person your.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Shoes?
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Like the idea of like the punching himself the band
tip thing, Yes, yeah, I think it's a I mean
it's a great.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I think it is a great, like challenging he's a
plot for all the people who do still, which I
get why they do it.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Still believe that the best course to dealing with anything
is too round and founded, you know, like to to conquer.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
It, to submit, like to make it submit to you.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
This idea of like shoving, shoving down how you feel
and like I can just conquer these bad hearts of me,
because it does one of two things right. It continues
to put perractuate the idea that there are parts of
me that are bad and that deserve to be treated
the way that maybe my dad and his situation treated him.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
So one is to recreated this idea that the.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Appropriate healthy clothing response is violence, is aggression towards ourselves
without other people, and which makes sense if you're at.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
A parent, then also do that to you.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
And so that is the solution, and it's it's it
keeps you stuck in a cycle, and it keeps you
hating yourself, like you can't hate yourself well and you
can't white numple yourself well too, And I think that
version of.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
It is very true.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
And what we do see instead, which is real strength,
is vulnerability, y'all.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Being vulnerable is very strong and allowing people to.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Witness your vulnerability as well, which is what this movie does.
Is even with the question you're saying earlier about him
like losing that time and that growth, is that he
did all this in front of his friends though his
support system now so they can talk to him later about, Hey,
so this is what we saw and this is what
we noticed, and so they can help him recount that
(25:13):
time that his loss in a I assume a pretty
constructive way, cause we haven't talked about me and Buddy
and Elena are both good mirrors too, Bob about you know,
we have really bad pass We've done really bad things
when we weren't in control of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
And how do we as a group.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
All of that sympathy for each other and having that
anthy count seven fifty versus too?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
And I feel like another another part of all of
this with Bob is that I keep closing my train
of thought. I'm famous for that, uh on the podcast,
something I'd never remember. So something else about trauma in
general is that you have to go through the trauma.
Speaker 8 (26:02):
There's only way. There's only one way through, and it is.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Through, and.
Speaker 8 (26:08):
That's an It's there, it's in there.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
No matters. No, I don't know who's going from babies.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I think the scenes we're.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
Talking about what we see Avengers to where they're teaching
each other ultivation is really similar to if you saw
at the end have been said out too, where they
learned that anxiety is a part of the system. Anxiety
has a function, but we have to keep it in
a box. Anxiety is the space that exists between the
perception of the threat and the resolution of it.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
If you don't resolve the threat, you don't stop being anxious.
That's what it's for. Same with our fight part, same
with our fond part. So the idea of you can.
Speaker 7 (26:55):
Suppress and beat down one of these parts was a
part of you if you were born with this part
of your survival system is not true. And then showing
Bob becoming shadowed just like Boyd was a really another
masterpiece of filmmaking. Really showing hold on Bunkie's like this
doesn't feel right, this isn't right good, I would stop this.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
And then that's sort of the must.
Speaker 7 (27:19):
Have read the poem about you cannot cast out darkness
with darkness, only light to do that. That is clearly inspiration,
at least in my mind, to this movie is showing
you can't just crush your fight part. You're fighting, that's
what it wants. It wants you to submit and become
the part that has limited function because that's the only
(27:41):
lens through which it sees the world. Your fight part
thinks it's a great idea to punch a person in
the face who's making you really angry.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
What our other self parts come in and regulate us
and go like, hold, that's a bad idea for all
these reasons.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
If you go like good, good, good, point good point,
super eight up should not one that person the base
of the grocery store about us in mine not paying
attention on their phone.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
That's inappropriate, got it? We go to jails.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Well on top of it or Arbor movies and usual.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Boss l oh that I cannot read, o Pa, I'm
so sorry, but the announcement, it's just that you would
beat loveless.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
How does we send a challenge of traditional super work
here and stay present a more realistic one?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh beautifully, how perfectly having bomb couldus be sitting.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
In a corner reading a book, even like drinking a
frappuccino is I was so impressed by that and things
because that you're right, that is so a typical.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
We usually see that. He's like fine, yeah, like.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
You just find out and you can be a superhero
and nothing's wrong. And and I think in an earlier
movie in a simpler action movie.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
That is what happened it.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
They feel very nomal that he is not only not
part of really the fighting right now, that there isn't
really a guarantee when and if he will be. And
I also love how Bucky and Elana are life. He's fine,
he's fine in the corner and leave him alone. I
feel like Bob a most feels like they're there chance
(29:27):
to do it differently. Yeah, with someone like kind of
younger and more vulnerable than them to help somebody through
it in the same way.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, I've been knowing that's when Maybe that's when they wanted,
right And that's the thing that I forgot, which is
not only do we need to go through the trauma,
but we also a lot we need a witness.
Speaker 8 (29:44):
We need somebody to witness that so they can validate
our experience.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And that's something that Bob will.
Speaker 8 (29:50):
Get with Laina and Bucky.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
For sure, what do you do?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
But you've been the earlier if you heard the maybe
remember around are you put your little how.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
The arms of you know?
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Its like that?
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And there.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Sure I think that I probably watched Iron Man three,
the Sooners side of all of these people sitting next
to me, I really feel like they didn't. They did
a good job showing his physical response of anxiety. I
think the difference though, is that he is able. He's
just kind of fine by the end of the movie.
And people do go through a period of time to
(30:40):
see somebody who's experiencing panic attacks. Then we have a
period of time where we're figuring out what helps with
panic attacks, and that could take a little while because
it's about grounding, and it's about finding what grounds you
and though, and there's so many different ways to do grounding,
Like if you look it up on the internet, it's
like a thousand different options for that.
Speaker 8 (30:59):
What I think is really for people to have coping
skills that they can use without needing anything.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Else for panic attacks.
Speaker 8 (31:08):
And so I really feel like they did it.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
They did an okay job in terms of what his
body felt like, but in terms that the mental processes
that have.
Speaker 8 (31:17):
To take place, yeah, they they should have been And
I would also say.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
To that movie about like Marvels first step into really
trying to talk about the real world's psychological consequences of
the movies they're in, Whereas now I think that's such
more of a moving part of mainstream culture that it
would feel kind of wild now to have movies like
this where it's not part of it at all.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
So I think also where I think.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
About movies and slack is that this wouldn't kind of
be like maybe believe we've had a little psychology to
spice it up and he knew we.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I mean that time when our podcast is.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Not a lot of ways is how movies will try
to do that, but then they will do too much
charity what they want to work for the story, or
they just get it like dead and then rama they
want their.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Cookies for, like saying anything about mental health.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 7 (32:11):
I think iron Man three really almost got there, but
then they started figuring out much much more bicivil woods where.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
They had Tony going through his VR scene where society
of course the thing he used is to demonstrate it.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
How could it not be his childhood drama of or
beating the scene He wishes he could have done something
different than you. There are therapies that help you do
exactly that, psychodrama being one of them, as well as
a narrative therapy even some work in the ADR where
you can help people work through those moments where they
wish they would have done something different, but it has
(32:46):
to come with the caveat of remember your approaching your
past self with your present knowledge, and that's not fair
to where you were then. You did not have then
the knowledge of how it could go. You were trying
to survive and doing the best you could. It is
okay to wish it had gone differently, and even to
play it out as if it had, but you also
(33:08):
must do that with a random acceptance that I couldn't
do that then, but I learned from.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
It so that I can use that to be something else.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Now are you thinking of your Okay, I'm wondering, so
like to show Bucky goes to a therapist.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
You kind of response to the like to me, I
don't know if you like that. When you think about
vendoring there present of like if you can do with people?
Do you think you do mean to not being instagrams.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I think that Bob and Bucky need two very different therapists.
The therapist that we see and felt in a Winter
Soldier that is what Bucky needs.
Speaker 8 (34:00):
I know a lot of people had a.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Lot of feelings about the way that she was represented,
but he really needed somebody who's been in the shit
and knows what the shit is, and it's gonna push
you on.
Speaker 8 (34:10):
I'm sorry, it's gonna push you. It's gonna be.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Able to push you a little bit in terms of
I lots between the pot well challenging Hilary and he's
coming in with people in his place are coming into
therapy because they're being made to go to therapy.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
You do need a little bit of.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
That pushing through the resistance, acknowledging the attitude.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Like I used to work a lot with teenagers who
didn't wanna be in my office.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
And so he kind of had to have a similar
or not she's a little meaner. But also I think
it's hard for me with about the therapist things. If
I love money so much that I just wanted him
to be held like a delicate flower baby by someone.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
So I'm like, oh man, this is my whole way
New world lucky. But now, Bob, I need someone with
a lot of unconditional positive regard, a lot of softness,
a lot of positivity, and like po of approbations.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
He feels like a client who would be always apologizing
for his own therapy and dobbing on himself and something
I would.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Have to work on him within the moment. Even the
therapy is like, let's how do you reframe that? Can
think catch when you wanna apologize even to me? And
is that something we can work through?
Speaker 4 (35:19):
And so he would need a much gentle er trauma
focused therapists that was very different than the kind of
therapist you worked with Bets and things like that. First
responders and people that have how did you create such
your health exterior to get through their situations.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
I don't know about the laying though in terms of
her therap like kind of therapist you have.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Somewhere between somewhere, Rishay I I'm I work with firsts oners.
There's my primary job I had the military, and the
way that that was depicted in the show was really
similar to what you would have to be and what
I mean people.
Speaker 7 (36:00):
Because despite all the stuff that they go through, remembering
the first responders, military have dealt with trauma.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Beyond what civilians would possibly understand.
Speaker 7 (36:10):
In most cases, sometimes you can everyone's looking life and
you don't assume, but the stuff that they see every
single day is immensely morble and people call them for
the worst moments.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Of their life.
Speaker 7 (36:23):
All shift, every shift for first responders in particular, it's
in the city they live in, not like war or
you go somewhere else. It's every day and having caravas
that can be a little more. Uh No, try and
get kind of energy like she had or like.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
And she says like, I'm the only person in your
own that sad. Like if you lived up before the client,
you can say stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Kind of match her to right to.
Speaker 7 (36:52):
The Virginia can be helpful, cause otherwise you're you're failing
to test if their parts.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Trying to go like does this person really understand?
Speaker 7 (37:00):
And she had to you know, like I understanding and
see you and to see what you do, where as
her Bob absolutely not. Bob makes a lot of development
of sense of self needs someone to guide and nurture. Eventually,
Bob's going it needs someone that can help both through
the darkness and learn to redefine what roll.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
It has in your life. But Bob is nowhere near there.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
You you great, Paste, and anyone else have any question
me as about so eight more minutes.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
So if anyone has any other questions, you can go
three we do. Also if you just talk to Toob
and Song, we can.
Speaker 10 (37:39):
Hundreds of hours we tapics of that, yeah, and none
does that thing we really have to talk about too
is bun me and how I think also the does
a good job of something does to just become a
congress person and he stood.
Speaker 7 (37:51):
In doing that.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
We also see like their beautifully psychologically to do a
great job of her friends, someone who is trying to
fit their our whole skill set enjoying you persona in
any market people's that sended her to the side and
he's like, I did she taptile? The assistant tactile senders
like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
I'm not doing this weird essigonage stuff with you, missus
conors with the packet, Who's like, are you think continuing?
And so I just wanna have to think about that
and various question Yes.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Uh, do you see the thing that you took that.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
Way?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
You Sally person she's.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
But when you're.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Mm, yeah, I love that question.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
So I am your certified and uh definitely a department here.
Speaker 7 (38:51):
Yes, there are a lot of things that they do
as they kind of build and for a reaction to
each one, you see if her starting to notice different stimulight.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
It's an excellent patch of that because any and the arthurpy.
What a lot of people start noticing is.
Speaker 7 (39:05):
You get both sides of your brain online. You realize
each low storage memories. It's not one central memory bank
we have in our brain. Each way we encountered the stimuli,
all our five senses get stored in the brain in
a different spot. So as she's focusing on a different
stimuli of it, noticing she has to read process each
(39:26):
one of those before she can start healing. Flo That
is a great question of great observation to it.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yes, very much so. The only thing I see to.
Speaker 7 (39:33):
Do it better was like where they put brought out
in a light bar and had light flashing across the
scene in the last episode.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
With his mom.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yep, how does the film span it? And you're sure
for your poor power that medicor oh, it's really great.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Earlier they have kind of a vibe of the other
therapy and almost like an open group where in your therapy,
an open grouping is that people can join uh, new
members can join the group as kind of goes on
like a AA is the that is probably ad version
of an open group in that way, and a closed
group is the same group of people can start the
(40:20):
first session of ORPIMB together and they go the whole
time together just then. And what the power of having
or open dynamic is so I mentioned earlier, which is
that someone like Buffy has already gone through therapy, has
already done a lot of his work. We're seeing him
in a much more actualized, chilled out place, and he
(40:40):
can quote model that for Lena.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
John's gonna mean that for sure, did you ever mentioned Bob?
Speaker 4 (40:48):
And also he can show them that there is another
side this, like if you can work on this stuff,
that you can get into shame, like I'm over here
and who can come to me, Like it's possible to
work there. Something even says that earlier than you meet
when he encounters them, and he's like, if you guys
don't figure out how to change this up for yourself,
(41:09):
it's gonna follow you. You need to figure out how
to have a purpose now that is yours and I'm
doing mad and it's working, and and so it gives.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
You a lot of hope to be able to see
people that have a little bit part of your WNG
on on the journey, cause the journey is hard or
it can work.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
And so and also when you're down to know some
the rest you can't really see the future and at
all like drama, is that the ression is that and
so it gives you someone that you can see and
touch and feel that is sort of a future version
of yourself hypothetically.
Speaker 11 (41:45):
Yeah, I think a piece example gives people an actual
look at you don't have to stay in this place
where you have yourself contained and stuck in order to
be safe, because people's depression and trauma teachers that I'm
only say in.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
This circle right here, just like I am, That's the
only way I can be safe. I took all my
life to figure this out, and it's unsafe to step
outside of it.
Speaker 7 (42:07):
And they really struggle to realize that was true at
one point and is why you formed this Maybe subtle pots,
but Bucky is starting to show Ava, John, all of
these other characters right that, hey, m, we.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Keep these skills, but be beyond this was like we
got you got a question again?
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Love it M.
Speaker 7 (42:41):
Yeah, I think there could have been a lot more
development with Ava in particular. Yeah, I thought, uh fringing
task master of this lane. But in particular Ava was
enough president in the story kind of showing her unique
skills and identity, but we don't think got a slack
(43:01):
glimpse of her. I think we got some good looks
at John and some a little bit more at Alexei.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
But I think we really missed out on developing Ava
as a character. And I would like to see that
and maybe as they build we will see that.
Speaker 7 (43:16):
Yeah, this movie felt like a D and D campaign
to be where your head rogue fighter, cleric and u
uh the warlock and to the ranger that we're talking.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
So I feel like we we did. We underdeveloped our
rogue in Dava.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
I like, well, she does the invisibal stuff and she's
the quietly whying like, oh look I found a place.
I'm doing the right thing, but nobody sees me that
needs to be a dynamic in the next movie.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Were welcome. So we only have one one more minutes.
We're gonna wrap it up. Will you if you you
ever asking so many thoughtful questions? Is there everybody on
that at that point you appreciate.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
That if anyone wants any little you know, merchant things,
you have hands, you times, live your young fo fends.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Don't you have traps?
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Say je second chapter we have tastic church, but Also,
if you.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Found this satistic and you wanna find this, We're called
Uncouplin Psychology. We are a panel were not getting. We're
a podcast that operates out of Chicago.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
We have a zillion.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
Episodes that you've been going for eating season, we talk
about this, We've talked about passing er.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Uh So the more we've talked about WandaVision. We've talked
about a lot of topics. So if you talk about
money a lot, it's probably why we didn't talk about
as much this discussion.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
But yeah, if you wanna check this out, you can
find us a pop from Psychology and TikTok, Facebook, Instagram.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
We're not on the X because through that.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
And yeah, to find us, to find us, Reverend I
appreciate you hanging out with us and say we'll be
back at one fifteen to talk about the last.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Of Us in the Psychology of the Apocalypse. Your
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