June 12, 2023 • 34 mins
Good News with Twanda Black welcomes Ruth P. Watson... author of bestsellers Blackberry Days of Summer, An Elderberry Fall, Cranberry Winter and children’s books: Hard Lessons and Who said a Girl Can’t be the President?
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(00:03):
Thank you for joining me today onGood News with Twine to Black, where
we are discovering some of the mostinspiring trials to triumph stories and empowerment moments.
Call up a friend and let themknow it's time for some good news.
(00:30):
Hello, and welcome to Good Newswith Twine to Black. I am
your host. We talk with folksfrom all around the world about their good
news because ultimately, if your brotherand sister is having prosperity, if they're
having good news, then you're good. You're having good news. So we're
always happy and joyful to celebrate otherfolks good news. Right, yes,
(00:53):
yes, yes, Sit back,relax and enjoy this. Next guest joining
us today award winning author, playwrightfilmmaker Ruth Watson. She is here to
talk about her new book. Howyou doing this, Ruth? Oh,
I'm great. I'm so glad tobe on your show. I mean,
I'm so happy to have you.You know. I love you like a
(01:14):
mama maybe maybe an older sister.Not sure. The old sister sounds good
all right too, because everybody calledme mama, they said I act like
a mama. The two I can'teven you know now, I don't know
(01:34):
a lot of you may not knowRuth or her work, but um,
she did BlackBerry Days. Oh mygod, it was a series Ruth.
That was you know, I remember, you know we interviewed a long long
time ago on those because that wasin the two thousands. But those books
I could not put down and Iwas waiting for the next one. I
(01:56):
was like, I can't wait forthe next one to come out. It
was, it was. And youdo these period pieces. Why do you
choose to do books in different periodsof time. Well, I have a
just a passion for history, andI want to go back and understand why
things are happening today. And whenyou go back and you start to look
(02:20):
at other people's lives and the thingsthat they've gone through, you realize this,
so much of that story and wehaven't heard about or we want to
hear about again, it's happening today, but in a different format, so
in a more what you say,up to date format. Yeah, I
just have to go back and tellthose stories. And I always I want
(02:45):
to remind us of where we've comefrom and what used to be as to
what we're dealing with now. Yeah, that's why I do so so talk
about I meanfore we get to thebook, because it's going to be relevant
to this book as well. Research. How much time does it take you
(03:07):
to write a book, because Iknow that there's so much research that goes
along with that. I can honestlytell you that if I just write a
book without research, it might takeme about six months seven months. But
it takes me with research because Iresearch everything. I want to make sure
(03:29):
we're in the right time period.I want to make sure the furniture is
correct, the whole atmosphere is inthat time period. And it sometimes can
take me to Wanda a year anda half to write a book, whereas
it might take somebody else a lotless time. But I put a lot
(03:50):
of efforts into making sure that whenyou go back and you look up the
characters or some of the things andplaces in the book, that they become
real to you because you realize theyare real places. It just the names
have changed and people have changed,and it's fictitious, but it's real,
(04:12):
you know. Um. And withthis book A right worthy Woman, down
to the corsets, the cobblestone streets, the ice boxes that I mean,
all the details were just so spoton for that time and I thought about
it, I said, oh mygod, how much researches you had to
(04:33):
do for all the details, youknow, the tiny, tiny details.
That's a lot, a lot ofresearch. I think this book probably it's
probably one of the most research novelthat I've ever done. And even the
comments that I've been receiving from people, it's like, wow, you have
(04:55):
researched it down to the tea.Yeah. I wanted to give is Maggie
Walker her just do and to dothat, I had to do everything I
possibly could to bring her to life, because, as you know, it's
been a hundred and twenty years sinceshe did what she did and the world
(05:18):
knows nothing. She's a hidden figure, world knows nothing about. I had
to do it for her. Andwhen I sat to write the book,
you know, I was saying,miss Maggie, talk to me, talk
to me. Yeah, I didit right. Let me give you your
(05:41):
just due because you are you.Definitely you have been someone that people sort
of have swept under the rug,just something the rug. We didn't even
know her. I mean really,we didn't even I mean everybody's telling me
that, even people who teach AfricanAmerican history are telling you that women we
(06:04):
were talking about Maggie C. J. Walker. No, we're talking about
miss Maggie Walker. Yes, yeah, we're in the book. So let's
talk about a right worthy woman.I know you got yours, I got
mine. Yeah yeah, yeah,awesome book. Um and and as always
(06:29):
that's what I expect from you fromfrom day one of your books. Um.
But as I said, you researchthis down to the dirt. Okay,
you researched it down to the earth, honey. Um, So talk
about Maggie Lena Walker's birth. Let'sstart there because um, that's a very
important piece of it, from fromstart to finish. Her birth is you
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know, it's integral to this story. Yeah. Who she is, I
mean who people think she is asopposed to she thinks she is right,
she knows she is, um herbecause she's a mixed race. Her father
was a Confederate soldier. Can youimagine a Confederate soldier, not a Union
(07:23):
soldier fate right, who should havebeen against slavery, I mean should before
slavery. He was a proponent ofslavery, and he was fighting for to
keep slaves in their place and tokeep the industry's going. The farming industry
(07:48):
going in the south, and hemeets her mother, and strangely he meets
her and a Union spies own.Her mother works in the union spies home.
But of course they don't know she'sa union spy. Nobody knows that.
But she really was, and shetook a lot of hard hits because
(08:13):
of it, because when she did, she freed her slaves. Before eighteen
sixty five, she freed her slavesand started giving them a little salary so
they can make some money while theyworked for her. So van Loup right,
yes, this her name is Elizabethvan lou that's right, a union
(08:35):
spy. And you know, whenthe soldiers will come into town, they'd
go to different places to rest,to eat, to be taken care of.
And her mother, Elizabeth with yourmother's name is Elizabeth too, They
used to call her Lizzie, tookcare of the soldiers. And for some
(08:56):
reason now I have there's different pointsof views when I was researching this.
Instead it was a love story thatyou fell in love with her, But
I'm not so sure about that.You know, it could have been a
love story. It could also havebeen a factor of I'm gonna take advantage
(09:22):
I'm entitled to take you, so, you know. But either way that
there was this little baby born MagdalenaWalker, and her mother ended up marrying
someone else who worked in the hometoo, who loved her mother, and
(09:43):
he became her father. That's theonly father she knew. So her story
her she originated in a place ofcon flict, and I'd say conflict because
at this point you don't know whator how she got here right right,
(10:09):
you know, to a place ofstruggle and challenge, challenges that were just
each step she made, something happenedin her life to sort of push her
that further, that much further backwards. But she was such a strong person.
(10:33):
Her state of mind was different formost. And I have to believe
that knowing that you lived, thatyour mother lived in the house of a
union spy had something to do withit. You know. Her mother,
her mother told the stories. Evenafter missus Van Lou was dead, her
mother repeated those stories. She regaledthose stories to her. So Van Lou
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became the superhero and you know,and to Maggie she was just a superwoman,
yes she was. But more importantly, she got to see her mother
in a position of authority where hermother when she was faced with with her
(11:20):
father's death, they had no money, absolutely no money. She saw her
mother take on the role of afather and say, hey, we're gonna
I'm gonna take care of this family. We will not fall apart. So
she had her mother's strength already ingrainedin her as part of her DNA.
(11:45):
The stories that her mother told herabout Missus Elizabeth van lew saw that just
heightened her abilities. So she justtook everything around her and turned it into
something positive. She did. Sheshe was like I could see her little
face. She was so determined ineverything she did. So so talk about
(12:11):
her growing up in the environment withthe Order, and you can talk about
what that is and how she justtook it off. She took it to
heart. It was an amazing thingto see for a twelve year old,
you know, yeah, I meanshe she was just beyond her years.
(12:33):
She attended church and the you know, the Order, the Fraternal Order of
Saint Luke met there at the churchand she started going to the meetings.
You know, a young girl twelveyears old going to the meetings, figuring
out that she could do something forthe youth. You know, I'm gonna
(12:56):
go up here and have the youthget it together, because these people are
doing some mighty great work for ourcommunity. Because the Fraternal Order were burying
family members who died because to burysomeone back then and anytime, he's even
expensive now to bury someone. Peoplecouldn't afford to bury their own family members,
(13:22):
so the Fraternal Order would pay forthat. And she saw them helping
people, helping families who couldn't feedthemselves, and for some reason, this
young girl took on the fact that, Okay, I need to do something
because if they if they can dothis, then I need to be a
(13:45):
part of whatever's happening with this order. And she started making it a regular
thy going to the Order meetings allof her life. And it started at
twelve years old. It's a yesmazingAnd and then I mean the big thing
was that because of her, theyouth division grew overgrew the adult division,
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and they were like, what's happeningover there? Why we need some of
that over here? And I meanthey were amazed with her. They were
amazed with what she was doing.Yes, I mean, she was somebody
that had to have such a strongconstitution and such a strong faith in God,
(14:43):
or I call it the supernatural.People don't like me to say the
supernatural because it may be assumed thatshe was a little you know, lighty
whatever. Supernatural. To me,it is God Almighty or the big universe
as we see it. Well,she was definitely godfearing. Now, yes,
(15:07):
she was godfearing, yes, yes. So this story starts in eighteen
seventy six in Richmond, Virginia,amazing time. So we're talking about the
eighteen hundreds all the way up toher death, which I think nineteen thirty
four, nineteen thirty four amazing.But the things this woman did. Okay,
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first of all, they said thatshe acts like a man. That
was kind of funny to me,and in today's environment they would probably call
her something else. Yes, Butbut she was powerful. I mean it.
I mean she she walked the streets, she knocked on doors, she
wasn't scared to talk to nobody.She was she was on fire. Yeah,
(15:56):
And you know, I think aboutall the awful women in the world.
Every powerful woman in the world havebeen called gay, they're lesbians,
they're bisexual, they're everything. Buta powerful woman. Can you imagine in
(16:19):
the eighteen hundreds, they were sayingall kinds of yes, this woman is
not non real woman a man,but she had a husband who loved her.
But wait a minute, let's goback to the point of she was
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so fair skinned. They said shecould be passing if she wanted to,
and she was like, oh black, yeah, black, yeah, she
has she never ever felt anything butbeing black. Right. But even when
people would say, oh, shecould pass, she is just because she's
(17:00):
mixed race, she would say,you know, that's the problem. That's
not my problem. I know whoI am right, black woman, and
I'm fighting for black women so thatblack woman women would not be domestic workers
all their lives and they would bringto the table a talent. And this
(17:21):
lady sought out to do that inany way. She knew how she did,
and she trained women black women aste mean. Having having a retail
store that competed with the in townstore. Everybody was buying her stuff from.
Oh my god, I thought theywere gonna kill her not to have
(17:45):
that store to open. They didn'treally care about the bank because the bank
wasn't doing anything at the time,right, And when she opened that store
and they were like, oh,you're taking business away. From our people.
They're like, we just and shewas always like, we just wanted
we want to stay out y'all's way. We want to do our little thing
over here and help our people.And I thought she was gonna die because
(18:06):
of that store. Now. Yeah, but you know I thought when I
was writing that, I said,you know, miss Maggie, tell me,
what would you have done? MissMaggie was thinking strategically about everything that
she did. She hated the fatthat when she had to go into the
bigger department stores, we had togo into the Color of Us the back.
(18:30):
Yeah, you wanted to through theback or the side door, and
we couldn't even try on the clothesthat we couldn't take it back and couldn't
take it back. You couldn't returnit once you left the store. So
we were in a bad situation andwe had no place else to shop.
And she said, Okay, buildour own department store and we'll go.
(18:53):
I'll go to New York. Andwhen she went to New York and talk
to the merchandisers because she needed toget the same supplies that they got,
and she did that and her storewas flourishing. Yeah, it was building.
It was prospering. People were comingto buy from her and her important
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and you know she had three floors. That was amazing, three floors,
as she had everything, and shehad some of the African American businesses in
the store. So if you hadsomething that you wanted to sell, you
could sell it at her in Mond, right, she said, bring my
people in, let them sell shehad. She was so clever that she
(19:45):
her mannequins were black. You know, they're like, this is these are
my people. She put Americans inthe window. They were brown. Yeah,
and there's some controversy which people said, well brown mannequins weren't They weren't
available until nineteen something. She hadthem colored. I mean, you know,
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she painted her own mannequins. Shemade sure that people understood that these
were black people doing great things.Yea. And they could buy from their
own store the same quality that youbrought from the other storekeeper. So she's
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not even stilling. Some of thewhite customers they wanted to probably buy from
her, and that when they gotangry, and that's when they stopped the
merchandisers. Yeah, they stopped her. It was earth shattering. You stop
a business because it's taken away fromyour business. Yeah, yeah, I
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love her that she just kept moving. She yep, sure, they stopped
the merchandise. It was nothing shecould do about it. She shut it
down and kept moving. Then shereally began working on the bank. And
you added stories in there about wEbed boys and Mary McLoud the Thunde who
were good friends of hers, whocame to eat at her house and strategize
(21:25):
and talk about the issues of theday. It was amazing, amazing.
I felt like I was in thekitchen every time they were in the kitchen.
Yeah, I mean, and theyactually did do that because back then,
it's just like today, the powerhousesmust come together so that they could
(21:45):
share ideas as to how we cangrow as a race. And can you
imagine, Jim Chrome, we justgot and we were just told and we
were no longer slaves, and thenthis clown goes around and tells everybody we
(22:07):
are the worst of the worst,and it does a minstrel show and people
believe a clown. What's real?Right? A right? We started a
big rumor that became legislature that theytook everything back that was given, even
(22:29):
the right to vote, because thisman and I had to put that in
the book because people don't understand whenpeople say Jim Crow laws. They think
that Jim Crow laws just some lawsthat just came about. People sat down,
(22:56):
they talked about it, but theydon't realize that it stopped from a
ministress. And I had to putthat in there. And I know that
it may cause some disturbances when peopleread it, but you must know where
the stuff comes from, exactly understandwhere we are right now. The word
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of Mountain. My mother used totell me something and even she had her
funeral preached about the pink Catalan yourtongue. It can take you places and
it can take you away from places. And I asked the minister, I
said, what made you use thatas the sermon? He said, well,
(23:44):
that's your that's the sermon your motherwanted me to preach. I mean,
my mother was always very thinking aheadof things, you know, she
was a creative one in my household. So it made sense. And I
think she might have been talking tome because she said, say, I
may watch your talk and the tongueis what I think his name was Tom
(24:11):
Rice. I'm not even sure withthe guy's names. He's one person that
I didn't want to even keep inmy head because he was so asinine and
the things but he stopped, juststop talking. Created a big, big,
big mess, and its started afterlegislators to take things back, I
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think Andrew Johnson, and they startedtaking things back from us and say,
yoh, no, you can't getyour forty acres in there for you.
You can't have this piece of land. You can't have anything because of Jim
Crow. And that's the same thingwe do today. We go out here
and as people, as humans,we find one thing about a person and
(25:02):
use that one thing to pull themdown, against them, against them,
and we should be pulling people up. That's what we're here for, to
love and for no other reason.And so when I was writing that,
I understand that my goal is toalways present love. Somehow, somehow love
(25:26):
prevailed us, and it did withMaggie Na Walker. As you know,
she was loved. I mean,the love for her people was immeasurable.
It really was. Now we're runningout of time, but I want to
talk about her building the bank.She was the first African American female banker,
(25:51):
and then she grew the business fromthe outskirts during voting rights time,
she was amazing. I mean,she was just so ahead of her time.
Talk about how she built this bank. Well, you know, we
know that she was the first AfricanAmerican female banker, but we also know
(26:11):
that she was the first female bankerperiod period writing. I mean, so
when I when when we say shewas the first person on the first woman
on Wall Street, she was.She's the only banker, and she had
people depositing money in her bank allthe way up to New York. I
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mean she was traveling across the countrygetting people's money to put into the bank.
And she never lost the bank.This is what is so remarkable.
When doing the depression, when everybodyelse was losing them banks, and she
tried to talk to them, Yeah, I wouldn't listen because of course she
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was a woman, and she wasa black woman. Yeah she was a
black man. Yeah, and theywouldn't listen. They lost their banks.
She sold her bank, she consolidatedher bank, consolidated and trust company.
So she didn't want her people toeven lose their money. That was so
(27:19):
so progressive. But she understood WallStreet. And I had to go back
and research Wall Street and say,okay, women, how did she do
this? Where Wall Street. Ididn't realize that a rumor could cause to
stop to go up today, youknow, and I think our president,
(27:45):
our ex president, former president,you know, you do that so he
could say whatever he wanted. Thestocker go up to say whatever you want,
it goes down. And it happenedthen too. So Maggie was just
probably truly brilliant and truly and trulyannoyant. It wo because that's the only
(28:11):
way she could have done what shedid. And I am so thankful that
God gave me that opportunity to writeabout her, because I've been writing about
her in my books, all thebooks that you read BlackBerry Days of Summer,
there's always a lady that comes inthe club, get the table in
(28:33):
front of the pearl who's singing?That lady is Her name is miss Maggie
Walker. Nobody ever asked me whoshe was even a real person, but
my editor at Simon and she,Melanie said, is this a real person?
(28:56):
As you were waiting for the lastbook, I sent the real last
book and it was like, thisis a real person. And I said,
yes, it is a real person. Can you write her story?
And I said, yeah, letme write the story because I have been
pushing this lady's name out there fora very long time, since two thousand
and eight. Yes body, absolutelynobody believed or asked me any questions about
(29:23):
her. But I'm so thankful thatI get to tell her story now,
and I hope that I will makeher family members that still laugh on this
earth proud, because even when Iwent to Richmond, there are people in
Richmond they don't even know who sheis. So this lady, hopefully,
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hopefully when this book is out,if it's out, eventually everybody across the
world will know who Miss Maggie LenaWalker was and what she still is to
all of us, us who stillhave a goal in mind, and we
want to be successful about it andagainst all odds. Because this is who
(30:07):
she was. We have to mentionher mother lived with her, she had
children, She had a wonderful,wonderful husband that supported her through everything.
I just thought one day he wasgonna pick up at the league. But
I was just so glad that hestuck with her, you know, in
spite of what the people were sayingabout her, in spite of the lonely
(30:30):
nights, and you know, justall the different things that he went through
at you know, as being herhusband. But she had a tremendous family.
She really really did. She didn'tat this family. Yep, yep,
Ruth. You got a book launchcoming up June thirteenth. Tell us
all about it. Okay. Thebook launch is gonna be at that at
the Auburn Avenue Research Library. It'sbeen sponsored by Sheriff's Books. And if
(30:56):
anybody knows, Sharriff's Books is afeminist book. But I chose them because
I love Er who owns that bookstory. He has been very inspirational and bringing
stories to us, you know,about feminism, about overcoming obstacles, especially
(31:21):
women. And I wanted to usethat bookstore, and Miss Pearl Clag of
course recommended the bookstore to me.So I didn't know something about the bookstore
before Miss Pearl Clague told me aboutit. But I want to say that
they're going to sponsor it. It'sgoing to be at the Auburn Avenue Research
Library. It's June thirteenth. Thereception starts at six. The actual book
(31:48):
book reading signing, which won't bea reading, it's going to be a
skit written by me, will bethere. I will start at seven.
We're gonna have the wonderful Randa Thomas, who is a jazz musician who travels
with Roy Yers and some other peoplewho would be singing, so it should
(32:09):
be quite a phenomenal. Then it'sfree to the public. Come in,
come on and purchase your book.But get to know who you are,
because as missus Perl said, it'sinspirited. That means it's inside of you
to do something. Let's do it. Let's start some things for us and
(32:34):
to know that we deserve it becausewe had a lady Lane Maggalina Walker in
nineteen oh three who decided that weshould have things and she made it happen.
Oh did she She was She wasall of that. She really was.
Ruth, thank you so much andfor your heart for telling the story
(32:55):
A right worthy woman, a novelby Rupee Watson. I hope that you'll
come out to the book signing.I can't wait to so I'm going to
be right there with you all.Can't wait to see you. Thank you
so much for joining us today,thank you for having me. And I
just want to add that Miss TuandaBlack will be the moderator, So you
(33:16):
need to come because she's gonna askthe tough questions and you know miss her,
We miss her on the radio.So we're hoping that we get her
back on the radio real soon.So come on and check us out.
It's going to be Thank you,Ruth, Thank you so much. I
was some conversation, don't you think? Wonderful book. You've got to get
(33:38):
it. To be a guest onthe show. You can contact me at
good News at the PG network,or watch the show via pgntv on all
digital streaming apps, or visit usat pgmtv dot org. Look, we'll
see you next time for some goodnews. God bless you.
Thank you for joining me today onGood News with Twine to Black, where
we are discovering some of the mostinspiring trials to triumph stories and empowerment moments.
Call up a friend and let themknow it's time for some good news.
(00:30):
Hello, and welcome to Good Newswith Twine to Black. I am
your host. We talk with folksfrom all around the world about their good
news because ultimately, if your brotherand sister is having prosperity, if they're
having good news, then you're good. You're having good news. So we're
always happy and joyful to celebrate otherfolks good news. Right, yes,
(00:53):
yes, yes, Sit back,relax and enjoy this. Next guest joining
us today award winning author, playwrightfilmmaker Ruth Watson. She is here to
talk about her new book. Howyou doing this, Ruth? Oh,
I'm great. I'm so glad tobe on your show. I mean,
I'm so happy to have you.You know. I love you like a
(01:14):
mama maybe maybe an older sister.Not sure. The old sister sounds good
all right too, because everybody calledme mama, they said I act like
a mama. The two I can'teven you know now, I don't know
(01:34):
a lot of you may not knowRuth or her work, but um,
she did BlackBerry Days. Oh mygod, it was a series Ruth.
That was you know, I remember, you know we interviewed a long long
time ago on those because that wasin the two thousands. But those books
I could not put down and Iwas waiting for the next one. I
(01:56):
was like, I can't wait forthe next one to come out. It
was, it was. And youdo these period pieces. Why do you
choose to do books in different periodsof time. Well, I have a
just a passion for history, andI want to go back and understand why
things are happening today. And whenyou go back and you start to look
(02:20):
at other people's lives and the thingsthat they've gone through, you realize this,
so much of that story and wehaven't heard about or we want to
hear about again, it's happening today, but in a different format, so
in a more what you say,up to date format. Yeah, I
just have to go back and tellthose stories. And I always I want
(02:45):
to remind us of where we've comefrom and what used to be as to
what we're dealing with now. Yeah, that's why I do so so talk
about I meanfore we get to thebook, because it's going to be relevant
to this book as well. Research. How much time does it take you
(03:07):
to write a book, because Iknow that there's so much research that goes
along with that. I can honestlytell you that if I just write a
book without research, it might takeme about six months seven months. But
it takes me with research because Iresearch everything. I want to make sure
(03:29):
we're in the right time period.I want to make sure the furniture is
correct, the whole atmosphere is inthat time period. And it sometimes can
take me to Wanda a year anda half to write a book, whereas
it might take somebody else a lotless time. But I put a lot
(03:50):
of efforts into making sure that whenyou go back and you look up the
characters or some of the things andplaces in the book, that they become
real to you because you realize theyare real places. It just the names
have changed and people have changed,and it's fictitious, but it's real,
(04:12):
you know. Um. And withthis book A right worthy Woman, down
to the corsets, the cobblestone streets, the ice boxes that I mean,
all the details were just so spoton for that time and I thought about
it, I said, oh mygod, how much researches you had to
(04:33):
do for all the details, youknow, the tiny, tiny details.
That's a lot, a lot ofresearch. I think this book probably it's
probably one of the most research novelthat I've ever done. And even the
comments that I've been receiving from people, it's like, wow, you have
(04:55):
researched it down to the tea.Yeah. I wanted to give is Maggie
Walker her just do and to dothat, I had to do everything I
possibly could to bring her to life, because, as you know, it's
been a hundred and twenty years sinceshe did what she did and the world
(05:18):
knows nothing. She's a hidden figure, world knows nothing about. I had
to do it for her. Andwhen I sat to write the book,
you know, I was saying,miss Maggie, talk to me, talk
to me. Yeah, I didit right. Let me give you your
(05:41):
just due because you are you.Definitely you have been someone that people sort
of have swept under the rug,just something the rug. We didn't even
know her. I mean really,we didn't even I mean everybody's telling me
that, even people who teach AfricanAmerican history are telling you that women we
(06:04):
were talking about Maggie C. J. Walker. No, we're talking about
miss Maggie Walker. Yes, yeah, we're in the book. So let's
talk about a right worthy woman.I know you got yours, I got
mine. Yeah yeah, yeah,awesome book. Um and and as always
(06:29):
that's what I expect from you fromfrom day one of your books. Um.
But as I said, you researchthis down to the dirt. Okay,
you researched it down to the earth, honey. Um, So talk
about Maggie Lena Walker's birth. Let'sstart there because um, that's a very
important piece of it, from fromstart to finish. Her birth is you
(06:56):
know, it's integral to this story. Yeah. Who she is, I
mean who people think she is asopposed to she thinks she is right,
she knows she is, um herbecause she's a mixed race. Her father
was a Confederate soldier. Can youimagine a Confederate soldier, not a Union
(07:23):
soldier fate right, who should havebeen against slavery, I mean should before
slavery. He was a proponent ofslavery, and he was fighting for to
keep slaves in their place and tokeep the industry's going. The farming industry
(07:48):
going in the south, and hemeets her mother, and strangely he meets
her and a Union spies own.Her mother works in the union spies home.
But of course they don't know she'sa union spy. Nobody knows that.
But she really was, and shetook a lot of hard hits because
(08:13):
of it, because when she did, she freed her slaves. Before eighteen
sixty five, she freed her slavesand started giving them a little salary so
they can make some money while theyworked for her. So van Loup right,
yes, this her name is Elizabethvan lou that's right, a union
(08:35):
spy. And you know, whenthe soldiers will come into town, they'd
go to different places to rest,to eat, to be taken care of.
And her mother, Elizabeth with yourmother's name is Elizabeth too, They
used to call her Lizzie, tookcare of the soldiers. And for some
(08:56):
reason now I have there's different pointsof views when I was researching this.
Instead it was a love story thatyou fell in love with her, But
I'm not so sure about that.You know, it could have been a
love story. It could also havebeen a factor of I'm gonna take advantage
(09:22):
I'm entitled to take you, so, you know. But either way that
there was this little baby born MagdalenaWalker, and her mother ended up marrying
someone else who worked in the hometoo, who loved her mother, and
(09:43):
he became her father. That's theonly father she knew. So her story
her she originated in a place ofcon flict, and I'd say conflict because
at this point you don't know whator how she got here right right,
(10:09):
you know, to a place ofstruggle and challenge, challenges that were just
each step she made, something happenedin her life to sort of push her
that further, that much further backwards. But she was such a strong person.
(10:33):
Her state of mind was different formost. And I have to believe
that knowing that you lived, thatyour mother lived in the house of a
union spy had something to do withit. You know. Her mother,
her mother told the stories. Evenafter missus Van Lou was dead, her
mother repeated those stories. She regaledthose stories to her. So Van Lou
(10:56):
became the superhero and you know,and to Maggie she was just a superwoman,
yes she was. But more importantly, she got to see her mother
in a position of authority where hermother when she was faced with with her
(11:20):
father's death, they had no money, absolutely no money. She saw her
mother take on the role of afather and say, hey, we're gonna
I'm gonna take care of this family. We will not fall apart. So
she had her mother's strength already ingrainedin her as part of her DNA.
(11:45):
The stories that her mother told herabout Missus Elizabeth van lew saw that just
heightened her abilities. So she justtook everything around her and turned it into
something positive. She did. Sheshe was like I could see her little
face. She was so determined ineverything she did. So so talk about
(12:11):
her growing up in the environment withthe Order, and you can talk about
what that is and how she justtook it off. She took it to
heart. It was an amazing thingto see for a twelve year old,
you know, yeah, I meanshe she was just beyond her years.
(12:33):
She attended church and the you know, the Order, the Fraternal Order of
Saint Luke met there at the churchand she started going to the meetings.
You know, a young girl twelveyears old going to the meetings, figuring
out that she could do something forthe youth. You know, I'm gonna
(12:56):
go up here and have the youthget it together, because these people are
doing some mighty great work for ourcommunity. Because the Fraternal Order were burying
family members who died because to burysomeone back then and anytime, he's even
expensive now to bury someone. Peoplecouldn't afford to bury their own family members,
(13:22):
so the Fraternal Order would pay forthat. And she saw them helping
people, helping families who couldn't feedthemselves, and for some reason, this
young girl took on the fact that, Okay, I need to do something
because if they if they can dothis, then I need to be a
(13:45):
part of whatever's happening with this order. And she started making it a regular
thy going to the Order meetings allof her life. And it started at
twelve years old. It's a yesmazingAnd and then I mean the big thing
was that because of her, theyouth division grew overgrew the adult division,
(14:11):
and they were like, what's happeningover there? Why we need some of
that over here? And I meanthey were amazed with her. They were
amazed with what she was doing.Yes, I mean, she was somebody
that had to have such a strongconstitution and such a strong faith in God,
(14:43):
or I call it the supernatural.People don't like me to say the
supernatural because it may be assumed thatshe was a little you know, lighty
whatever. Supernatural. To me,it is God Almighty or the big universe
as we see it. Well,she was definitely godfearing. Now, yes,
(15:07):
she was godfearing, yes, yes. So this story starts in eighteen
seventy six in Richmond, Virginia,amazing time. So we're talking about the
eighteen hundreds all the way up toher death, which I think nineteen thirty
four, nineteen thirty four amazing.But the things this woman did. Okay,
(15:33):
first of all, they said thatshe acts like a man. That
was kind of funny to me,and in today's environment they would probably call
her something else. Yes, Butbut she was powerful. I mean it.
I mean she she walked the streets, she knocked on doors, she
wasn't scared to talk to nobody.She was she was on fire. Yeah,
(15:56):
And you know, I think aboutall the awful women in the world.
Every powerful woman in the world havebeen called gay, they're lesbians,
they're bisexual, they're everything. Buta powerful woman. Can you imagine in
(16:19):
the eighteen hundreds, they were sayingall kinds of yes, this woman is
not non real woman a man,but she had a husband who loved her.
But wait a minute, let's goback to the point of she was
(16:40):
so fair skinned. They said shecould be passing if she wanted to,
and she was like, oh black, yeah, black, yeah, she
has she never ever felt anything butbeing black. Right. But even when
people would say, oh, shecould pass, she is just because she's
(17:00):
mixed race, she would say,you know, that's the problem. That's
not my problem. I know whoI am right, black woman, and
I'm fighting for black women so thatblack woman women would not be domestic workers
all their lives and they would bringto the table a talent. And this
(17:21):
lady sought out to do that inany way. She knew how she did,
and she trained women black women aste mean. Having having a retail
store that competed with the in townstore. Everybody was buying her stuff from.
Oh my god, I thought theywere gonna kill her not to have
(17:45):
that store to open. They didn'treally care about the bank because the bank
wasn't doing anything at the time,right, And when she opened that store
and they were like, oh,you're taking business away. From our people.
They're like, we just and shewas always like, we just wanted
we want to stay out y'all's way. We want to do our little thing
over here and help our people.And I thought she was gonna die because
(18:06):
of that store. Now. Yeah, but you know I thought when I
was writing that, I said,you know, miss Maggie, tell me,
what would you have done? MissMaggie was thinking strategically about everything that
she did. She hated the fatthat when she had to go into the
bigger department stores, we had togo into the Color of Us the back.
(18:30):
Yeah, you wanted to through theback or the side door, and
we couldn't even try on the clothesthat we couldn't take it back and couldn't
take it back. You couldn't returnit once you left the store. So
we were in a bad situation andwe had no place else to shop.
And she said, Okay, buildour own department store and we'll go.
(18:53):
I'll go to New York. Andwhen she went to New York and talk
to the merchandisers because she needed toget the same supplies that they got,
and she did that and her storewas flourishing. Yeah, it was building.
It was prospering. People were comingto buy from her and her important
(19:18):
and you know she had three floors. That was amazing, three floors,
as she had everything, and shehad some of the African American businesses in
the store. So if you hadsomething that you wanted to sell, you
could sell it at her in Mond, right, she said, bring my
people in, let them sell shehad. She was so clever that she
(19:45):
her mannequins were black. You know, they're like, this is these are
my people. She put Americans inthe window. They were brown. Yeah,
and there's some controversy which people said, well brown mannequins weren't They weren't
available until nineteen something. She hadthem colored. I mean, you know,
(20:11):
she painted her own mannequins. Shemade sure that people understood that these
were black people doing great things.Yea. And they could buy from their
own store the same quality that youbrought from the other storekeeper. So she's
(20:32):
not even stilling. Some of thewhite customers they wanted to probably buy from
her, and that when they gotangry, and that's when they stopped the
merchandisers. Yeah, they stopped her. It was earth shattering. You stop
a business because it's taken away fromyour business. Yeah, yeah, I
(20:59):
love her that she just kept moving. She yep, sure, they stopped
the merchandise. It was nothing shecould do about it. She shut it
down and kept moving. Then shereally began working on the bank. And
you added stories in there about wEbed boys and Mary McLoud the Thunde who
were good friends of hers, whocame to eat at her house and strategize
(21:25):
and talk about the issues of theday. It was amazing, amazing.
I felt like I was in thekitchen every time they were in the kitchen.
Yeah, I mean, and theyactually did do that because back then,
it's just like today, the powerhousesmust come together so that they could
(21:45):
share ideas as to how we cangrow as a race. And can you
imagine, Jim Chrome, we justgot and we were just told and we
were no longer slaves, and thenthis clown goes around and tells everybody we
(22:07):
are the worst of the worst,and it does a minstrel show and people
believe a clown. What's real?Right? A right? We started a
big rumor that became legislature that theytook everything back that was given, even
(22:29):
the right to vote, because thisman and I had to put that in
the book because people don't understand whenpeople say Jim Crow laws. They think
that Jim Crow laws just some lawsthat just came about. People sat down,
(22:56):
they talked about it, but theydon't realize that it stopped from a
ministress. And I had to putthat in there. And I know that
it may cause some disturbances when peopleread it, but you must know where
the stuff comes from, exactly understandwhere we are right now. The word
(23:19):
of Mountain. My mother used totell me something and even she had her
funeral preached about the pink Catalan yourtongue. It can take you places and
it can take you away from places. And I asked the minister, I
said, what made you use thatas the sermon? He said, well,
(23:44):
that's your that's the sermon your motherwanted me to preach. I mean,
my mother was always very thinking aheadof things, you know, she
was a creative one in my household. So it made sense. And I
think she might have been talking tome because she said, say, I
may watch your talk and the tongueis what I think his name was Tom
(24:11):
Rice. I'm not even sure withthe guy's names. He's one person that
I didn't want to even keep inmy head because he was so asinine and
the things but he stopped, juststop talking. Created a big, big,
big mess, and its started afterlegislators to take things back, I
(24:36):
think Andrew Johnson, and they startedtaking things back from us and say,
yoh, no, you can't getyour forty acres in there for you.
You can't have this piece of land. You can't have anything because of Jim
Crow. And that's the same thingwe do today. We go out here
and as people, as humans,we find one thing about a person and
(25:02):
use that one thing to pull themdown, against them, against them,
and we should be pulling people up. That's what we're here for, to
love and for no other reason.And so when I was writing that,
I understand that my goal is toalways present love. Somehow, somehow love
(25:26):
prevailed us, and it did withMaggie Na Walker. As you know,
she was loved. I mean,the love for her people was immeasurable.
It really was. Now we're runningout of time, but I want to
talk about her building the bank.She was the first African American female banker,
(25:51):
and then she grew the business fromthe outskirts during voting rights time,
she was amazing. I mean,she was just so ahead of her time.
Talk about how she built this bank. Well, you know, we
know that she was the first AfricanAmerican female banker, but we also know
(26:11):
that she was the first female bankerperiod period writing. I mean, so
when I when when we say shewas the first person on the first woman
on Wall Street, she was.She's the only banker, and she had
people depositing money in her bank allthe way up to New York. I
(26:33):
mean she was traveling across the countrygetting people's money to put into the bank.
And she never lost the bank.This is what is so remarkable.
When doing the depression, when everybodyelse was losing them banks, and she
tried to talk to them, Yeah, I wouldn't listen because of course she
(26:56):
was a woman, and she wasa black woman. Yeah she was a
black man. Yeah, and theywouldn't listen. They lost their banks.
She sold her bank, she consolidatedher bank, consolidated and trust company.
So she didn't want her people toeven lose their money. That was so
(27:19):
so progressive. But she understood WallStreet. And I had to go back
and research Wall Street and say,okay, women, how did she do
this? Where Wall Street. Ididn't realize that a rumor could cause to
stop to go up today, youknow, and I think our president,
(27:45):
our ex president, former president,you know, you do that so he
could say whatever he wanted. Thestocker go up to say whatever you want,
it goes down. And it happenedthen too. So Maggie was just
probably truly brilliant and truly and trulyannoyant. It wo because that's the only
(28:11):
way she could have done what shedid. And I am so thankful that
God gave me that opportunity to writeabout her, because I've been writing about
her in my books, all thebooks that you read BlackBerry Days of Summer,
there's always a lady that comes inthe club, get the table in
(28:33):
front of the pearl who's singing?That lady is Her name is miss Maggie
Walker. Nobody ever asked me whoshe was even a real person, but
my editor at Simon and she,Melanie said, is this a real person?
(28:56):
As you were waiting for the lastbook, I sent the real last
book and it was like, thisis a real person. And I said,
yes, it is a real person. Can you write her story?
And I said, yeah, letme write the story because I have been
pushing this lady's name out there fora very long time, since two thousand
and eight. Yes body, absolutelynobody believed or asked me any questions about
(29:23):
her. But I'm so thankful thatI get to tell her story now,
and I hope that I will makeher family members that still laugh on this
earth proud, because even when Iwent to Richmond, there are people in
Richmond they don't even know who sheis. So this lady, hopefully,
(29:45):
hopefully when this book is out,if it's out, eventually everybody across the
world will know who Miss Maggie LenaWalker was and what she still is to
all of us, us who stillhave a goal in mind, and we
want to be successful about it andagainst all odds. Because this is who
(30:07):
she was. We have to mentionher mother lived with her, she had
children, She had a wonderful,wonderful husband that supported her through everything.
I just thought one day he wasgonna pick up at the league. But
I was just so glad that hestuck with her, you know, in
spite of what the people were sayingabout her, in spite of the lonely
(30:30):
nights, and you know, justall the different things that he went through
at you know, as being herhusband. But she had a tremendous family.
She really really did. She didn'tat this family. Yep, yep,
Ruth. You got a book launchcoming up June thirteenth. Tell us
all about it. Okay. Thebook launch is gonna be at that at
the Auburn Avenue Research Library. It'sbeen sponsored by Sheriff's Books. And if
(30:56):
anybody knows, Sharriff's Books is afeminist book. But I chose them because
I love Er who owns that bookstory. He has been very inspirational and bringing
stories to us, you know,about feminism, about overcoming obstacles, especially
(31:21):
women. And I wanted to usethat bookstore, and Miss Pearl Clag of
course recommended the bookstore to me.So I didn't know something about the bookstore
before Miss Pearl Clague told me aboutit. But I want to say that
they're going to sponsor it. It'sgoing to be at the Auburn Avenue Research
Library. It's June thirteenth. Thereception starts at six. The actual book
(31:48):
book reading signing, which won't bea reading, it's going to be a
skit written by me, will bethere. I will start at seven.
We're gonna have the wonderful Randa Thomas, who is a jazz musician who travels
with Roy Yers and some other peoplewho would be singing, so it should
(32:09):
be quite a phenomenal. Then it'sfree to the public. Come in,
come on and purchase your book.But get to know who you are,
because as missus Perl said, it'sinspirited. That means it's inside of you
to do something. Let's do it. Let's start some things for us and
(32:34):
to know that we deserve it becausewe had a lady Lane Maggalina Walker in
nineteen oh three who decided that weshould have things and she made it happen.
Oh did she She was She wasall of that. She really was.
Ruth, thank you so much andfor your heart for telling the story
(32:55):
A right worthy woman, a novelby Rupee Watson. I hope that you'll
come out to the book signing.I can't wait to so I'm going to
be right there with you all.Can't wait to see you. Thank you
so much for joining us today,thank you for having me. And I
just want to add that Miss TuandaBlack will be the moderator, So you
(33:16):
need to come because she's gonna askthe tough questions and you know miss her,
We miss her on the radio.So we're hoping that we get her
back on the radio real soon.So come on and check us out.
It's going to be Thank you,Ruth, Thank you so much. I
was some conversation, don't you think? Wonderful book. You've got to get
(33:38):
it. To be a guest onthe show. You can contact me at
good News at the PG network,or watch the show via pgntv on all
digital streaming apps, or visit usat pgmtv dot org. Look, we'll
see you next time for some goodnews. God bless you.
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