August 26, 2025 • 49 mins
Part 2 of day 3 recap - Wendi Adelson still on the stand and then Donna's oldest son, Rob Adelson took the stand to testify against his mother.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Watch you know Ali Byers. Welcome to another episode of
Pretty Lies and Alibis.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Gigi.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
It's Monday, August twenty fifth. You guys will be getting
this Tuesday, August twenty six I'm late getting this out
because I sat with my grammy for a few hours today.
But let's knock out Part two. We pick up after
lunch and they talk about the fact that Charlie is
two and a half years older than Wendy. Back in
twenty thirteen to twenty fourteen, she said she really wasn't
(00:26):
spending a lot of time with Charlie, but she did
speak with him on a regular basis. He was single,
dating a lot of people. He worked hard, played hard.
He liked good food and nice cars. She says she's
pretty sure they would talk about her marital problems in
their phone conversations. Charlie didn't like Dan at the time,
and he did joke about hiring a hit man. That's
(00:48):
when he said that buying her a TV was cheaper
than hiring a hit man. She may have told Jeff Lacass,
her boyfriend at the time, about that. She's asked if
she remembers sending a text to someone in May of
twenty fourteen, saying that her parents aren't into Jeff. She
doesn't remember that now, as we know, the morning of
the murder, she had that TV repair appointment with the
(01:10):
Geek Squad because of what she says are vertical lines
on the TV, she thought her kids may have tapped it.
That appointment was between eight and twelve, and that was
the same TV that Charlie joked he got her instead
of hiring a hit man. Donna texted Wendy about the
repair guy being on the way. Wendy said she didn't
buy the TV, and she thinks the Geek Squad reached
(01:32):
out to Donna first. The damage was not covered by
the warranty, and she said the repair guy was there
maybe an hour. She's asked if she was upset and
crying when the TV repair guy was there. She doesn't
think so. She doesn't remember being upset about the TV
not being able to be repaired. The prosecution asks about
an impact to the screen, and Wendy says, yes, Now,
(01:55):
Jeff la Cass will probably testify that there was something
that looked like a crater on that TV, and he
said he doubted the kids did it because whatever hit
that TV had to have been heavy, and he didn't
think with how little they were they would have been
able to do that. She's asked if she went to
dinner with Charlie after the murder and this is where
(02:16):
she vomited on the table. Wendy said that was a
few weeks after the murder, when she felt comfortable enough
to leave her apartment. She's asked if Charlie referred to
that as a celebratory dinner. Wendy said she's only heard
that in other trials, but not from Charlie. She met
Katie twice and both times were just through Charlie. She
(02:37):
said Katie was just somebody he dated and she didn't
think it was serious. She also points out that all
of Charlie's girlfriends looked somewhat similar. They show this photo
of Katie and Wendy at the beach with a friend
of Katie's. Wendy said she stayed for about an hour
and this was over Father's Day weekend in twenty fourteen,
so just about a month before the murder, and that
(02:59):
photo was taken somewhere that was close to her parents' house.
She said this was the second time she had met
her the first was at a dinner with her then
boyfriend Jeff when she was running an alternative spring break
in South Florida. Wendy says during this trip there was
no conversation about the murder with Katie, Donna, or Charlie.
Shortly before the murder, Wendy went down to South Florida
(03:22):
for Harvey's birthday that was on July fifth, and she
stayed for around seven to ten days before returning back
to Tallahassee. Now, Donna and Harvey came up to Tallahassee
to drive down with Wendy for this trip. The prosecution
asks was there any talk about relocation or anything of
that nature. Wendy said it had been a year since
(03:42):
all that resolved and she didn't think so. She also
denies there being any talk of the pending Grandma motion
where Dan was asking Donna only have supervised visits with
the boys. They go back to the morning of the murder.
She said the TV repairman came on the early side
of the eight to twelve when But the prosecution asks,
(04:02):
was Dan murder between eight and twelve? Wendy says yes,
she doesn't remember if she paid the TV repair man,
but said as possible, and she's asked if she's ever
referred to the TV as a code word for murder.
She says no. She's asked if Donna did no. Her
and Jeff broke up the week before Dan was murdered.
(04:24):
She remembers seeing him on July thirteenth. She's asked if
she remembers asking Jeff if she could tell him something
in confidence, and Wendy doesn't remember. The prosecution asks if
she told him if something happened to Dan, then she
could move back to Miami.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
She says no.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Then she's asked if she told Jeff in the summer
of twenty thirteen that Charlie had seriously explored options about relocation,
including regarding hiring a hip man. Wendy says she did
not have this conversation with Jeff. She's asked if four
days before the murder, she sent Jeff an email. Wendy
did and said she told him she just didn't want
(05:04):
any contact with him. Prosecutor says, so you weren't breaking up,
but you're asking to not have contact and then you'll
reach out later and figure something out. Wendy says she
was breaking up with him, but she has an aversion
to conflicts, so that could have been her way to
avoid it. She's asked about what time the TV repairman left,
and Wendy thought it was around ten. After he left,
(05:27):
she did some work around the house for a couple
of hours, talked to some friends, ate breakfast, and left
home close to noon to run a few errands. After
the errands, she went to meet two friends that she
would meet on Fridays for lunch. She went down Trescott
Drive after she left her house. She said that's the
route she used to take, but there was yellow tape up,
(05:50):
so she made a three point turn and continued down
another road. She's asked how far down Trescott she went
until she turned around, and she said she got up
to the road block. The night before Dan was killed,
the kids were with him, and that morning he had
taken them to preschool. The plan was for Wendy to
pick them up that afternoon. She's asked if she had
(06:11):
talked to her boys that morning, and she had not,
and she also did not speak to Dan. They did
have plans to talk, she says, she called and he
didn't pick up. When she got to the roadblock and
saw that Trescott was blocked off. She says she did
not try to call Dan or the daycare after seeing
that she was on the phone at the time she
(06:31):
came to the roadblock and may have told the other
person that she needed to hold on while she did
her three point turn. She says she wasn't concerned about
the roadblock, and she doesn't remember if Dan was set
to leave Friday or Saturday to go to New York.
Prosecution says, let's look at your law enforcement interview. Wendy
says he had plans to be out of town and
(06:52):
that he was leaving on Saturday. Prosecutor asked if the
killers knew he was going out of town, how would
they know? Says, I don't know, and she doesn't know
if Charlie knew Dan was leaving to go out of town.
She said Donna usually knew their schedule as far as
Wendy and the boys, and probably would have known Wendy
would have been the one to have the boys that weekend,
(07:15):
but not necessarily that Dan was leaving to go out
of town. She's asked if Donna kept meticulous records of
every time that Dan went out of town. In fact,
she sent you a record that went back to twenty ten.
Wendy said Donna never switched over to a Google calendar,
so she would keep that meticulous planner of everything. Prosecution
(07:37):
brings up that Dan left Wendy a voicemail on the
morning of his murder. He said he was going to
the gym between nine fifteen and ten thirty. Wendy said
they were trying to touch base about the children's schooling,
so that's why he was so specific about when he
would be at the gym. She did talk to Charlie
at nine thirty am that morning for eighteen minutes, and
(07:59):
she said that talked about the TV she called to
see if it made sense to repair it or just
buy a new one. She can't say if she talked
about Dan's travel plans to Charlie or not. She said
at the time she had WhatsApp on her phone and
she would use it to talk to people who lived
out of the country because it was free. Now, back
(08:19):
at that time, it would have been very expensive to
text somebody internationally on the phone. She doesn't know if
she ever talked to Katie on what's App. Back to
her activities the day of the murder. After seeing the roadblock.
She went to the liquor store. She had been invited
to a stock the bar party and they asked for
a very specific kind of bourbon, so she asked the
(08:41):
employee for help. It was bullet bourbon and it was
bought at twelve forty nine pm. She may have gotten
gas and then drove to lunch. After that, law enforcement
came in and got her. Now, after the murder, she
relocated to Miami. Wendy said she left Tallahassee after the funeral,
but took a week end her her and her boys,
thinking that they would be back quickly. She came back
(09:04):
a couple of times to get things and give a talk.
Prosecutor points out that within forty eight hours after the shooting,
she was back in South Florida. Detective Isom called her
while she was on her way back to Miami. Wendy
said he maybe wanted to get some DNA from her kids.
They were already halfway down the road and had been
(09:26):
in the car for about four hours with the boys.
Wendy says the call broke up and he did not
call back to follow up. The prosecutor asked if she
was faking the call breaking up and she said no.
Shortly after that, Wendy told Detective Isom he could contact
her attorney. She says he never followed up. When asked
(09:46):
if she was happy to be out of Tallahassee, she
said no. So the prosecution asks about a January first,
twenty sixteen text that she sent someone. Wendy says that
would be a year and a half later. It's not
a question of being happy. It was me building a
new life, and the prosecutor has her turn to a tab.
(10:06):
Wendy says she doesn't know who she was talking to.
Prosecutor says, it's not a big deal. But did you
say I'm so happy I don't live there? And the
person responds, I bet it's a crap pole. Prosecutor says,
would it surprised you that you were talking to your brother, Charlie.
Wendy says she doesn't know if it would surprise her.
Did you change your children's name after Dan was killed?
(10:29):
Wendy says about a year later, prosecution you changed their
last name from Markel to what and Wendy says mine Adelson. Yes,
and she also changed her oldest son's middle name. Prosecutor
brings in an email dated July third, twenty fourteen. Wendy
looks at it and says it's an evite for her
(10:50):
dad's seventieth birthday and she doesn't know if she sent
it to herself or if her mom sent it to her.
She says she may have helped them with the evite
and it was addressed to Wendy and the two boys.
Prosecution points out this is before the murder. The state
brings up an email where it is confirming that Lincoln
(11:10):
will attend Todd Shabbat with Harvey, and they want to
know who sent it was at Harvey. Wendy said it
seems like somebody else, but she would also say that
Lincoln will attend this event with his mom. It's awkward
to say things in the third person, but it's not
impossible the subject on that email was Lincoln Adelson and
(11:31):
this is before the name change was done officially. Wendy
said she was scared about putting the boys in school
and was using the name Adelson socially for about a
year before officially changing their last name. That started when
she had to register the boys for school. She's asked
if Donna helped her with a registration Wendy doesn't think so.
(11:53):
But the prosecutor brings in an email about flag football
and the email is from Donna and it says we
registered him as Ben Adelson. She's asked where Dan was buried,
and he was in Toronto. She's asked if her and
the boys attended, and they did not. When was the
last time you spoke to your mother? As we sit
(12:14):
here today, Wendy kind of looks up at the ceiling
and says November of twenty twenty three. That would have
been the same month Charlie was convicted and Donna was arrested.
She's asked if Donna has given her any information or
advice on how to testify in this case.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
No.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
The prosecutor goes back to Charlie's trial. Did your mom
offer you advice about testifying at his trial? And Wendy
says yes. She was hoping Wendy would be supportive of
her brother, and afterwards Donna was devastated and she did
not feel Wendy was supportive of Charlie. Wendy says she
wasn't involved in any way in the plot to kill
Dan and has no knowledge of it happening. She didn't
(12:54):
provide any information, even unknowingly, to assist in the murder.
Regarding Donna's involvement, Wendy says she has no information to
that she knows. Charlie said that about buying the TV.
It was a tasteless joke. But the prosecutor points out
someone did hire a hitman. She asked, Wendy, was the
part of the plot to kill Dan for you to
(13:16):
have plausible deniability. Wendy again says she was not involved
in any plot to kill Danny. Why did you tell
investigator Iso in your law enforcement interview that you were
worried in the police car on the way to be interviewed,
that you were worried you would be a suspect?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
She said, Dan.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Didn't have anything bad going on in his life other
than divorced stuff, so it may make them think it
could be her. Prosecutor says, you mentioned nine times in
your interview something about being a suspect. Yes, when you
were approached at the restaurant, you weren't yet told this
is a shooting, only that something happened to your ex.
(13:55):
Wendy says she doesn't even think that she was worried
at first. It was something with the kids kids. She
was told law enforcement officers were with the boys and
she didn't know why. She said, in the police car,
they told her Dan had been shot, and the prosecution asked,
you were told that prior to being in the interview room.
She says, yes, I could be mistaken, and please correct
(14:18):
me if I'm wrong. But they tell her in the
interview room he's been shot, and then she starts crying.
You allow law enforcement to take your computer. Wendy said
she gave permission for everything she had to be helpful.
She's asked if she told investigators she didn't think she
was going back to work and just to take the laptop.
Wendy said her life had just fallen apart. Did you
(14:40):
suggest your parents may be angry enough to kill Dan?
Wendy said, I suggested a lot of people, And the
prosecution says, but some of the people were your parents. Yes,
you said you didn't think they were capable of doing that.
Did your mom have someone she could enlist to assist her?
And Wendy says, I don't know what was your first
thought when you were asked if anyone would kill Dan
(15:02):
for your benefit? She said, at first she thought maybe
a crazed friend or a former student. Prosecution said, that's
not what you said. First, you said Charlie. Wendy says,
you have it there. Miss Capelman says, can you tell
the jury you did say Charlie was one of those people?
And Wendy says I did. Did you say if someone
(15:23):
tried to kill my ex, they should be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the law, and detective is asks,
regardless of who it is, do you recall your answer?
Wendy said, I was hoping it wasn't anyone in my family,
and the idea of that gave me pause. Prosecution said,
but that wasn't your answer. Was it was your answer?
It would be different if I thought it was my brother. Yes,
(15:45):
Wendy says she did call her mom from the interview room.
Did she advise that your dad was in the shower?
Wendy doesn't remember. Did you ask her to sit down?
Wendy said she did. She was concerned about Donna's age
and if she fell she hurt herself. Did she ask
to put you on speaker?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Why?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Wendy says, so my dad could hear. Prosecution points out,
wasn't dad in the shower. Wendy doesn't know. Was anyone
else there, maybe Charlie, Wendy doesn't think so. Did you
ask your mom to tell Charlie what was going on? Yes,
your mom took the news pretty well, and Wendy said,
Donna was upset. Did you say something else? You said,
(16:25):
my mom handled that pretty well. Wendy said, I may
have said that so as her look at the transcript
and Wendy says, yes, did you say, well, they sounded
really surprised, so that's a relief. Wendy says, yes, and
that was it for direct on Cross. Donna's defense asked
when was the last time you listened to the call?
And by the call, she is referring to the call
(16:48):
Wendy made to Donna from the interview room at the
Law Enforcement Center to tell her Dan had been shocked.
Wendy says she's never watched it. She's read the transcript,
though you don't remember the shock and your mom voice,
and Wendy says, yes. There was a photo of Katie
and another lady at the beach with you on Father's
Day weekend twenty fourteen, and your testimony was you only
(17:10):
knew Katie with Charlie. Was Charlie or your mom at
the beach that day, No, you had a dinner with
Charlie and Katie. Was it before or after the beach trip?
Wendy said several months before. It was probably in March
or April of that same year. So the dinner that
was the first place you met Katie. Wendy says, as
far as I remember, Yes, it was me, Charlie, Katie,
(17:33):
and Jeff. They talk about when Wendy was young, Donna
didn't work. She did go back to teaching after Wendy
was in school. The defense points out all three kids
got post graduate degrees. Donna was a good mom. She
was loving, caring. Yes, you once said she radiates positivity.
She's completely selfless. Did you say that?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Did you say your mom never did anything for herself.
She invested in your lives. Wendy says that Donna was
a very good mother and grandmother. Defense points out when
Wendy had her kids, Donna came and spent time helping.
When the baby cried in the middle of the night,
Donna would get up so Wendy could rest, And Wendy agrees,
your mom's been there for you in small and big ways.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
After you left Dan in September of twenty twelve and
into January of twenty thirteen, did Donna spend a lot
of time there in Tallahassee helping you with the boys, Yes,
things like homework, bought groceries, she cooked, cleaned.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
The family dental practice was close to them. When they
were in Coral Springs, Wendy said they would work around
Monday to Thursday and stay in Coral Springs during that
time and then go to Miami some weekends, and Wendy
would sometimes visit. She's asked when Donna would come up
to help or visit with you and Dan. She would
sometimes fly, and she would sometimes drive, but mostly drive.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Defense points out that's an eight hour trip and around
that time, your mom would have been sixty fourish.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
They also point out Donna is now seventy five. Sometimes
she would rent cars to drive, and sometimes Harvey would
come with her as well. Back in the beginning, Wendy
said she was attracted to Dan. They got married and
there were times that they had a happy marriage. The
defense said that your parents took you and Dan on trips,
and one time that was in Costa Rica and something
(19:29):
about a zipline. Wendy said, yes, I went ziplining while
I was pregnant, and Donna kind of smiled at this.
Defense points out Dan was very intelligent, with two Harvard degrees.
He did a lot of writing, he had a tenure
at FSU, which takes a lot of work. He traveled
to speak and was well respected by his colleagues. And
Wendy agrees with all of that. And the defense says,
(19:51):
the kids became the love of his life, and after
you separated, Dan made a big effort to get as
much time with the kids as he could. Yeah, yes,
he would skype and you helped with that, but not
necessarily the schedule he wanted.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
And Wendy said she tried.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
She's asked if Donna was kind to Dan before the separation, Yes,
what about after the divorce.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
The defense says, we've seen ugly things that she said
about him, and some of the pleadings weren't attractive towards
you as well. Wendy says, that's true. You shared some
of the things with your mom that upset you, and
then she became upset and said ugly things about Dan,
But she never suggested Danny deserved to be harmed or killed,
and Wendy says never. The defense points out during the
(20:36):
separation and after the divorce, sometimes Dan would call Donna
for help, and if he did, she would come and help. Yes,
before you filed the petition for dissolution of marriage, what
kind of experience did you have with divorce proceedings? And
Wendy doesn't understand the question. The defense asked if she
was familiar with family law, and Wendy says no, she has.
(20:59):
Wendy read the former husband's counter motion for enforcement of
the marital settlement agreement on parenting issues and a motion
for contempt and sanctions. She's asked, it doesn't say anything
about a grandmother motion, does it?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
No, the defense.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
In fact, the overwhelming majority of that motion was about
you and parenting issues. His complaint in that grandmother motion
is him complaining that you are not meeting the requirements
of the first refusal. Now what that means in family court?
That would be the parent offering the other parent the
ability to care for the kids if they needed help,
(21:37):
and Dan mentioned if you gave it, sometimes he could
take it, and then the boys wouldn't be with Donna.
It wasn't that he was asking Donna to only have
supervised visitation moving forward. Wendy said that's not how she
saw it, and Donna never saw that motion. According to Wendy,
now that's kind of crazy because the grandparent motion was
(21:58):
like an alienation of a infection thing where the boys
had mentioned Donna had said bad things about Dan to
his kids. So I think that was a bit of
a reach on that. It was pretty clear what Dan wanted.
The state has referred to this bribe because there's emails
that discuss offering Dan a million dollars. You thought it
wasn't to take the kids away from him, but rather
(22:21):
it was in the hopes that Dan would relocate to
Miami and you could.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Still raise your kids together.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
There were more opportunities for Dan to practice his Jewish
faith in Miami than in Tallahassee, like better restaurants that
serve kosher foods. So the money wasn't a bribe, but
more of an incentive for him to relocate there. And
he liked it when you lived there before. Wendy says,
very much so, and she agrees with everything Donna's attorney said.
(22:48):
Defense says that Dan tried to get a job at
the University of Miami School of Law, but he didn't
get it and he had already been employed at FSU,
so they moved back. The money Donna was talking about
offering Dan would be to offset his travel if he
moved to Miami, since he only taught school two days
a week in Tallahassee, and that would give him money
(23:09):
to take plane trips while still giving him fifty to
fifty custody with the kids. Wendy agrees, somewhere around October
or November of twenty twelve, you interviewed for a job
in Miami, and Wendy says, yes. It was with Grossman
and Roth. In December of twenty twelve, they made Wendy
an offer. Wendy said, what made that ideal for her
(23:30):
is that it was more secure as opposed to grant
money that could have been taken away, which would have
been her job. In January, you told Dan you had
the job offer, she said. They went to get coffee
and talk. She asked if he would consider all of
them relocating to Miami, and she said he was not
opposed to it, but he changed his mind. Wendy said.
(23:51):
Wendy didn't change hers, and she filed the relocation motion,
and she also amended her dissolution of marriage to include relocation.
In June of twenty thirteen, just before the divorce's final
you had the relocation hearing and you were denied. You
were able to work out a schedule for summer, and
you ended up settling the divorce. Did you always want
(24:13):
the kids to be a big part of Dan's life?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
They bring in an email from Harvey about the TV
appointment on the day of Dan's murder. The order creation
date for that was July eleventh, twenty fourteen. Harvey called
the geek squads and there were problems with the screen.
They go through a lot of questions Harvey had to answer,
and one of those was would you be willing to
accept an earlier appointment if one's available, and Harvey chose yes.
(24:40):
They move on to the name change and the defense
points out it was officially changed a year after the murder.
She says, you went to Miami and your oldest was
going to kindergarten, the youngest was going to a preschool program,
and you registered them with the last name Mark Hell.
But because you were going to socially refer to them
as Adelson. You asked the school to refer to them
(25:03):
as Aidelson when you went to orientation. Did his little
name plate say Adelson. Wendy doesn't remember, but you asked
that he be called Aidelson, and Wendy says yes. The
defense reminds Wendy she was shown that exhibit where Donna
had registered the boy as Aidelson. The defense essentially has
Wendy say that's why Donna referred to him as Adelson,
(25:26):
because Wendy was doing that socially, and the same with
the email about Harvey referring to Lincoln as Aidelson. Wendy
explains Todd Shabbat, it's a Sabbath activity where the grandparents
would come with the kids to sing songs. Wendy says
she thought the name Adelson would make them safer. You
were asked about buying a home and it was suggested
(25:47):
Charlie convinced you not to, and you said it was
because you had not gotten your settlement from Dan. Wendy
said that's correct, and that meant she didn't have the
money to buy the house. The defense says Donna's making
a lot of suggestions, like telling Dan you're going to
raise the kids as Catholics, but she wasn't suggesting you
do it, but more as a means of negotiating. Wendy
(26:08):
said that was her understanding. You said your mom hated
Dan before his murder, but a week before she was
babysitting for him and made him banana bread without nuts
but with chocolate chips. Is there a difference between being
mad and hating someone? Wendy says yes. She brings up
the prosecution saying that Wendy would not have left without
(26:30):
her brother and mom suggesting it. Wendy says, I wouldn't
have had the strength to leave on my own. The
defense asks if after her school year was over at FSU,
she would go to Coral Springs or Miami and spend
two weeks with Donna and Harvey together with Dan, and
then with the kids when they came along. Wendy says yes.
(26:51):
Summer of twenty twelve is when you decided to leave him.
Dan was there and the kids too, and you and
your mom went out for coffee, and that's when you
told her you were going to leave Dan. Did Donna
suggest counseling? Wendy said they had been in counseling and
it didn't work, but she does not remember going for
coffee with Donna. Defense talks about the questions with law
(27:12):
enforcement the day Dan was shot. They pointed out things
you said about your family when you were interviewed. You
said Dan's parents are going to think you're the one
who did it, and Wendy says yes. Regarding relocation. June eighteenth,
twenty thirteen, there was a hearing, and prior to that,
you told your mom that since she would be testifying
in court, she would need to wait outside. Wendy doesn't remember,
(27:35):
so she has Wendy re from the transcript and it says,
because you're testifying in court, you won't be able to
sit in the hearing with me. Moving back just a bit,
April of twenty thirteen, you took a trip with a
man named Miguel because you were speaking at a conference.
Wendy doesn't remember the trip, but says she was seeing
somebody named Miguel. She's reminded that trip was to Puerto Rico,
(27:58):
and the defense gives their documents to look over. There
was an email written April twenty eighth, twenty thirteen, to Renee.
This is when you're coming back from your trip and
your parents had the boys while you were gone. You
have bullet points about what you want to do to
resolve your divorce. Is that correct? Wendy said, not just that,
(28:18):
but how I want to live my life overall. So
the defense refers to the last bullet point. It says,
I've been coming to a place in the last few
months where I realize I want to keep my job.
It allows me maximum flexibility to spend time with my
kids while allowing the freedom for intellectual exploration, one on
(28:39):
one mentoring with students, and meaningful work in the community.
I don't care that derogatory name for Dan said I
stole from him and that I'm mentally ill. Nasty things
are said in divorces, and people know that Tallahassee isn't
where I ever wanted to live, but it's where my
job is, and it's where the boy's father is, and
(28:59):
that that means they aren't constantly flying on planes or
driving in cars to accomplish our custody situation. The defense says,
you have the petition for relocation, but you're starting to
think Tallahassee is where you need to be, and Wendy
says yes. They bring up an email for May second
of twenty thirteen, and in the email, Wendy says she
(29:19):
loves sitting in on graduation, but Dan usually doesn't because
he's typically at synagogue. In the email, you say it's
on Sunday this year and I have the boys, but
the dean wants all faculty to attend so Mom can
watch my boys. Was it routine for you to get
their help if you needed it?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Another email June fourth, twenty thirteen to Renee is close
to the relocation hearing that was taking place on June eighteenth,
and you say concerns about what you've been through in
the divorce, but Dan send along message about how they
could do things differently, talk about their vision for the
boy's future, and you greed you want to do it peacefully.
(30:02):
Wendy says, yes, So you call Gary, the partner who
offered you the job in Miami, to come testify at
this relocation hearing. Yes, but one thing you say is
I've changed my mind, And the defense points out you
could have called Charlie and say I'm gonna stand Tallahassee.
I hope one day you'll understand, and you could say
the same to your parents and tell them they are
(30:24):
free to come visit anytime. Wendy says, yes, could have
done that. The next page is the alternative, which is
to have Gary testify.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Your mom's going to testify.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And you thought the hearing was going to be one
or two days, and you acknowledge it's going to cost
more money, it's gonna be more stress. And you say,
to save face with my family and be given an
opportunity that I don't want, which is to live with
them in South Florida. But you say, I'm willing to
put myself through all this just to keep up appearances
(30:54):
that I want to live in South Florida even though
I don't want to. Wendy says yeah. And you say
it would be giving up my flexible job that allows
me to spend more time with my kids. Yes, The
defense says, you chose the second alternative. Wendy said, I
went through with the hearing. She's handed a transcript. Gary testified,
(31:14):
You testified, and then the judge called a time out.
Wendy doesn't remember that, but the judge made some comments
that the kids had not been harmed with Dan and
since he had not pulled out their toenails, it seemed
like the judge was leaning towards no. Wendy says, that's correct.
The defense says, but you didn't call all of your witnesses.
Your mom stayed outside with your dad during the testimony.
(31:38):
Wendy said, I asked her to because if she was
going to testify, she needed to stay outside. But then
you came outside and said it was denied, and Wendy
says yes. The defense points out it was after the
denial when those emails that.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Got ugly were written. Yes.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
She's asked if relocation was ever an issue again, and
Wendy says no. That was the end of discussion about
relocation and there were no more plans about how to
get relocation. It had been decided. The defense points out
that this denial is with prejudice, meaning it's over cannot
be revisited. In other words, Wendy would not be able
(32:13):
to leave Tallahassee until those boys turned eighteen, and that's
it couldn't bring it back to court, the defense says.
Before that, it says, as such, both parties stipulate to this,
and Wendy agrees. The defense says, but you didn't tell
your parents that you stipulated to this, and Wendy doesn't
think so. The defense says, so your mom thought you
(32:34):
still had a chance to get it, and she kept
writing all of these ugly emails. But if you had
told her that you stipulated, that would have been the
end of it. And Wendy says, I don't know if
it would be the end. That would be guessing. The
defense says, after July thirty first, she didn't write any
more emails, and Wendy doesn't know. You said mom hated
(32:56):
Dan at the time he was killed, but you clarified
she was mad, but you testified that you hated Dan.
Wendy doesn't remember saying that. There is a sidebar. They
end up taking a break. When they come back, they're
reading from something Wendy wrote talking about her wedding day.
It was like being an actor on someone else's show.
(33:18):
The defense says, you knew on your honeymoon. You said
you were enjoying the vacation, but you weren't sure you
liked him, let alone loved him. I was eager to
start a life with someone, and he was with me.
Wendy doesn't remember that. The defense your boys lost their
father on the day he was murdered. They're growing up
and eleven years has passed without any of his influence.
(33:41):
He's not here to give them advice, come to any
of their functions. They're not eating kosher because on July eighteenth,
he was brutally murdered. And you testified anyone in your
family who had anything to do with this murder should
be held responsible.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Wendy says, yes, defense and that includes you, doesn't Wendy says,
anyone who's responsible? And that was the end of cross
And can I just say Donna's attorney brought it right there.
That was a mic drop moment, so very clear here
Donna doesn't mind throwing Wendy under the bus y'all. I
(34:19):
cannot wait for Charlie to get on that stand because
she threw him under the bus in openings, you know,
Charlie's heard about that. So Charlie has an appeal that
he's trying to get and we all know the chances
of that likely slim to none. Does Charlie play it
safe or is Charlie gonna get bitter and just go
(34:40):
after his mom? I can't wait for the day he
takes the stand. Moving on to redirect Prosecutor Kapelman when
you said you felt like an actor in someone else's show.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Whose show was it?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Wendy said she felt she wasn't present in her own
life because she is a people pleaser. She's always tried
to make others happy. Prosecutor says, including your mom, and
that's why you kept going with the relocation. Wendy says
that's part of her reason. You were asked on Cross
about stipulating with prejudice. Do you remember doing that. Wendy
(35:15):
says she doesn't remember actively stipulating. The prosecutor points out,
you have previously said you did not know what with
prejudice meant, just a reminder Wendy is an attorney, but
Wendy says she does not use that in her daily
practice and at the time she forgot that with prejudice
meant it was a final order, over and done.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
On Cross, they said your mom was not told about
the stipulation and she was misled. But they bring in
a document and the email is from Donna and Harvey's
email to a friend of theirs and is signed love Donna,
so we know Donna sent it. And in the email,
Donna indicates there is no chance at the appellate level
for relocation.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Wendy agrees.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Is that dated June twenty fifth of twenty thirteen, Yes,
five days after your mom knew that order was final,
and we know that based on this email. Wendy says, yes,
your mom never suggested harm to Dan, but she wanted
to bribe him, take control from him, aggravate him, scare him,
(36:21):
give him some grief, take something from him, show that
effort what would make him absolutely miserable, right, but definitely
not kill him. Wendy says, I don't know what the
question is. And the prosecutor says, Donna was caring and
devoted to your boys, and maybe she cared a little
too much about your life and what was going on.
(36:43):
Wendy says, I don't know that you can care too much.
Prosecutor Kapelman, so her Nazi uniform idea that came from
a place of love. Would you agree with that? And
Wendy says yes. Prosecutor said her lawyers are trying to
downplay this, but she looked into having those boys baptized
and could do it within two weeks. She justified it
(37:04):
would be harmless to your kids, because it's like playing
dress up like Jake the Pirate. Wendy says, yes, she
thought the ends would justify the means, and a move
to South Florida was best for you and your kids,
who she cared about more than anyone in the world.
Wendy says, I don't know who she cares about more,
but maybe my dad. The prosecution says the kids were
(37:27):
going to have better support. Mom has a more lucrative job,
and your lives depended on it. Isn't that what she said? Yes,
the defense said Dan could have moved right. Yes, he
could have enjoyed all that delicious kosher food in South Florida,
and if he did, you could have happily co parented
the boys. But he just wouldn't relent, wouldy. Wendy said,
(37:47):
we had a hearing and the judge said no. Prosecutor
says he wouldn't give your mom what she wanted. Wendy
said her and Dan only had one conversation about it.
It was not an ongoing thing that they talked about.
You were asked on cross if you thought things would
have been great for Dan in Miami. Wendy says it
(38:07):
would have been, but he wouldn't agree, and that was
the end of redirect. So after Wendy was her older brother,
Rob Adelson. So once he's sworn in, they go through
the siblings and the order. He's the oldest, Charlie's the middle,
Wendy's the youngest.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
He said.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Donna is more controlling, where Harvey is more passive. Donna
was a very involved parent when they were growing up,
but she had these fixed ideas of things she wanted
to happen in her children's lives, and if they didn't
do those things, it wasn't acceptable. If you went along
with her, things were fine, and if you didn't, things
were not fine. She had very strong feelings about their
(38:49):
occupations and who they married. He said, that's one of
the reasons he became a doctor. After everybody grew up
and Wendy and Rob got married and had kids of
their own, she was morey and then a lesser degree
to Charlie at that point, and even lesser involved with him.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
He said.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
It was not a healthy level of involvement, overinvolved and
more on the controlling side. Charlie always needed more attention
than here Wendy did. When Wendy left Dan, he didn't
know there were any problems until after she left him,
and then Donna's focus shifted to Wendy. He said Charlie
was dependent on Donna to organize things with the dental practice,
(39:29):
and he does remember growing up that Donna would be
writing checks on their kitchen table just keeping up with
the practice. Harvey sold the business to Charlie around twenty twelve,
and then Charlie sold it back to Harvey sometime between
the winter of twenty fifteen into twenty sixteen. Donna is
the kind of person who would have questions if you
want her to do something. She wouldn't just blindly do things.
(39:52):
At first, Donna was very positive about Dan when he
and Wendy got together, but that changed as the relationship
headed towards divorce. He only heard bad things about Dan
after Wendy moved out, but never before. In twenty thirteen,
he said Donna hated Dan based on things Donna would
say to him. He also said Wendy would play the
(40:15):
damsel in distress during her divorce. Donna did talk to
Rob about the divorce some and the phrase that sticks
out in his head the most is Dan is depoting
Wendy to death. There were also complaints about mediations and
depositions that Wendy had to go through. So they go
into Donna explaining to him about how they planned for
(40:35):
Wendy to leave Dan. Donna had been in Tallahassee for
several months looking for a place to rent for Wendy,
moving money around and getting things set up. Donna told
him this all at once, just days after Wendy left Dan,
and she told him rather gleefully that she was pleased
(40:57):
that she and Wendy timed the phone call where Wendy
told Dan she was leaving him to just before Dan
was going to get on stage to give his speech.
In order to hide that they were renting a place,
they used Donna's maiden name so there wouldn't be an
Adelson in Tallahassee ForWord to get around. Donna was looking
(41:17):
over Wendy's motions, and she did that when they were visiting.
At one point they were in his house getting ready
to go to the hospital, I believe, for the birth
of one of his daughters, and Donna came to visit.
She wanted the WiFi because she was going over emails
to help with the divorce. He said this would have
been in October of twenty twelve, Donna told him Wendy
(41:40):
was trying to get permission to move to Miami, and
also about the one million dollar bribe. In the year
or two after Wendy left Dan, Donna said Wendy needed
her help and she was up in Tallahassee a lot.
He said from their conversations, Donna cared more about Wendy's
divorce than anybody. He said, Charlie, he cares about go karts,
(42:01):
jet skis, boats going out, but not Wendy's divorce.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
He said.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Donna is very into her grandkids and their success, but
he doesn't think Wendy moving to Miami was more important
to Charlie than it was to Donna. Donna was fixated
on Wendy taking a job with Gary and Miami, and
it came up a lot in his discussions with Donna.
She said Wendy would make a million dollars a year
and be a partner. The only time he heard any
(42:28):
anger from Donna after the murder was Whinny asked if
Wendy would go to work for Gary, but the job
didn't work out because his partners wouldn't let him hire Wendy.
After the murder in the summer of twenty fourteen. Towards
the end of June, Wendy sent Rob a text referencing
having a boyfriend, and that would have been before Dan's murder.
(42:51):
He said it was very unusual because Wendy would never
share anything about her relationships with him, and his impression
was that his parents did not know about this relationship.
In the text, Wendy said she was going to Gainesville
for the weekend and Rob had lived there three years prior,
and so he asked Wendy, who is this Jeff guy,
and Wendy said her boyfriend. She even sent pictures of
(43:14):
her and Jeff with her boys at Wacla Springs. After
the murder, he felt compelled to tell law enforcement about
Jeff and he showed them the photos. He said, two
or three weeks before the murder, July fifth, twenty fourteen,
Harvey turned seventy and they had this big party at
the condo in Miami. There was an email saying that
(43:35):
your dad doesn't want gifts. He just wants to be
with all of his kids for his birthday. And Rob
said Harvey really was not into gifts. He said, if
a gift is going to be given to anybody. Donna
would say, here's the gift, and here's what you owe
if you want to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
He said.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
The place they lived in Miami was very secure. They
had celebrities that lived in there, and he remembered that
a Rod from the u Yankees was one. He thinks
they have been living there around six or so months.
They were just trying it out to see if they
liked living in South Beach.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
He said.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
To him, it seemed like they were there full time,
but still had the house in Coral Springs. Charlie and
Wendy were at the party, as well as Wendy and
Dan's boys. He said they had a caterer and a
chef on the balcony. He first heard about Dan's murder
the day after, on July nineteenth. He was in Chicago
for a meeting and at first he got a phone call.
(44:29):
He picked up, asked to call back later. Then he
got a text that said tragedy here, please call and
it was from Donna. So he called and he said
he will remember that forever. Donna said, just want to
let you know Danny's been shot and he didn't make it.
They were driving up to Tallahassee to help Wendy and
said they really couldn't talk further. He said his mom
(44:51):
wasn't crying. She was just very matter of fact. The
only other time he talked to her that weekend was
the next day when he was in the airport going home.
Donna told him that someone went to the front door
and asked, are you Dan Markel. He said yes, and
they shot him. Rob says, how do you know that?
Donna said, well, that's what they're telling us. But he
(45:13):
said he knew there was only one way to hear
that story, and it bothered him, and later he found
out that that story wasn't true. He also pointed out
during that conversation again she wasn't crying. Law enforcement came
back to his house. He was at work, so they
talked to his wife, and he later talked to them
at his office the next day after the interview with
(45:33):
the FBI.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
He said it was that afternoon. Maybe the next day.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Donna called and said, if the police come around, don't
talk to them. He told her he already had and
she said, you don't know anything anyway, and he said
that was unusual. He said, he's not gonna not talk
to the FBI if they show up to his house.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
He said.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
After the murder, Donna did not seem curious about who
killed Dan. In fact, none of them seemed curious. He
asked Donnah what she thought happened, and those conversations were
always re routed or discouraged. But around mid August, he asked,
what is going on? This case is getting notoriety. It's
all over the news, so we wanted to know what
(46:16):
they thought happened. Donna said, I don't know, don't care.
He said, this was an unsolved murder of my brother
in law. There was national interest, and nobody had curiosity
about who killed Dan, but his murder was not a
subject to be discussed. Fast forward to twenty sixteen, when
Sigfredo and Rivera were arrested. Somebody told him about it.
(46:40):
In the doctor's lounge, he asked his wife, should we
call mom and dad? Their anniversary was coming up two
days after he found out, so they thought they would
wait and see if they reached out. He thought, maybe
they're stressed, and just like he thought, on the twenty eighth,
Donna called, but she didn't mention it thing about the arrest.
(47:02):
She wished Rob and his wife, Well, the had small talk,
and he said he kind of let it go for
a bit in the conversation, but he said, this is
not small news. And he finally said to Donna, hey,
they arrested someone.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
No response.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
He said it two or three times and Donna said,
I've got to go. She hung up, and they never
talked about it again after that. Not sure if he
meant they never talked again, or just about the arrest
or the murder in general. On cross in twenty twelve
to twenty fourteen, how many times did you visit your
(47:36):
family in South Florida? He said October of twenty twelve
was when his daughter was born, so twenty thirteen thanksgivings
were typically the times they would travel with a one
and a three year old, and also for Harvey's birthday.
He definitely knows of two times and maybe one other time.
The defense points out that Rob would come into town,
(47:57):
stay a couple of days in leave well because he's
a door and had a job. As far as phone calls,
Rob said maybe every other week. He was there for
Harvey's birthday on the fifth and he left the sixth.
Dan was killed July eighteenth and the defense asked when
did you come to town to be with your family,
and Rob says, I didn't. You said your mom called
and said you should not talk to the police. But
(48:20):
what happened is a family friend, mister Weinstein, he called
and advised the family shouldn't talk to police, and Rob
says yes, and that was the end of cross. There
was no redirect So I really just think that Rob
came across as very credible. I also think that him
describing how his mother was also her coldness after the murder,
(48:44):
no interest in who killed their ex son in law,
the father of their grandkids, nothing. I think it's going
to be very impactful on that jury, even though he
wasn't on the stand, a fraction of what Wendy was
today very powerful in what he did and bless us,
he seems very very tortured as you can imagine. We
will see what happens tomorrow, but that is it for
(49:06):
this episode. Hope you guys have a good morning and
we will see soon
Watch you know Ali Byers. Welcome to another episode of
Pretty Lies and Alibis.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Gigi.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
It's Monday, August twenty fifth. You guys will be getting
this Tuesday, August twenty six I'm late getting this out
because I sat with my grammy for a few hours today.
But let's knock out Part two. We pick up after
lunch and they talk about the fact that Charlie is
two and a half years older than Wendy. Back in
twenty thirteen to twenty fourteen, she said she really wasn't
(00:26):
spending a lot of time with Charlie, but she did
speak with him on a regular basis. He was single,
dating a lot of people. He worked hard, played hard.
He liked good food and nice cars. She says she's
pretty sure they would talk about her marital problems in
their phone conversations. Charlie didn't like Dan at the time,
and he did joke about hiring a hit man. That's
(00:48):
when he said that buying her a TV was cheaper
than hiring a hit man. She may have told Jeff Lacass,
her boyfriend at the time, about that. She's asked if
she remembers sending a text to someone in May of
twenty fourteen, saying that her parents aren't into Jeff. She
doesn't remember that now, as we know, the morning of
the murder, she had that TV repair appointment with the
(01:10):
Geek Squad because of what she says are vertical lines
on the TV, she thought her kids may have tapped it.
That appointment was between eight and twelve, and that was
the same TV that Charlie joked he got her instead
of hiring a hit man. Donna texted Wendy about the
repair guy being on the way. Wendy said she didn't
buy the TV, and she thinks the Geek Squad reached
(01:32):
out to Donna first. The damage was not covered by
the warranty, and she said the repair guy was there
maybe an hour. She's asked if she was upset and
crying when the TV repair guy was there. She doesn't
think so. She doesn't remember being upset about the TV
not being able to be repaired. The prosecution asks about
an impact to the screen, and Wendy says, yes, Now,
(01:55):
Jeff la Cass will probably testify that there was something
that looked like a crater on that TV, and he
said he doubted the kids did it because whatever hit
that TV had to have been heavy, and he didn't
think with how little they were they would have been
able to do that. She's asked if she went to
dinner with Charlie after the murder and this is where
(02:16):
she vomited on the table. Wendy said that was a
few weeks after the murder, when she felt comfortable enough
to leave her apartment. She's asked if Charlie referred to
that as a celebratory dinner. Wendy said she's only heard
that in other trials, but not from Charlie. She met
Katie twice and both times were just through Charlie. She
(02:37):
said Katie was just somebody he dated and she didn't
think it was serious. She also points out that all
of Charlie's girlfriends looked somewhat similar. They show this photo
of Katie and Wendy at the beach with a friend
of Katie's. Wendy said she stayed for about an hour
and this was over Father's Day weekend in twenty fourteen,
so just about a month before the murder, and that
(02:59):
photo was taken somewhere that was close to her parents' house.
She said this was the second time she had met
her the first was at a dinner with her then
boyfriend Jeff when she was running an alternative spring break
in South Florida. Wendy says during this trip there was
no conversation about the murder with Katie, Donna, or Charlie.
Shortly before the murder, Wendy went down to South Florida
(03:22):
for Harvey's birthday that was on July fifth, and she
stayed for around seven to ten days before returning back
to Tallahassee. Now, Donna and Harvey came up to Tallahassee
to drive down with Wendy for this trip. The prosecution
asks was there any talk about relocation or anything of
that nature. Wendy said it had been a year since
(03:42):
all that resolved and she didn't think so. She also
denies there being any talk of the pending Grandma motion
where Dan was asking Donna only have supervised visits with
the boys. They go back to the morning of the murder.
She said the TV repairman came on the early side
of the eight to twelve when But the prosecution asks,
(04:02):
was Dan murder between eight and twelve? Wendy says yes,
she doesn't remember if she paid the TV repair man,
but said as possible, and she's asked if she's ever
referred to the TV as a code word for murder.
She says no. She's asked if Donna did no. Her
and Jeff broke up the week before Dan was murdered.
(04:24):
She remembers seeing him on July thirteenth. She's asked if
she remembers asking Jeff if she could tell him something
in confidence, and Wendy doesn't remember. The prosecution asks if
she told him if something happened to Dan, then she
could move back to Miami.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
She says no.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Then she's asked if she told Jeff in the summer
of twenty thirteen that Charlie had seriously explored options about relocation,
including regarding hiring a hip man. Wendy says she did
not have this conversation with Jeff. She's asked if four
days before the murder, she sent Jeff an email. Wendy
did and said she told him she just didn't want
(05:04):
any contact with him. Prosecutor says, so you weren't breaking up,
but you're asking to not have contact and then you'll
reach out later and figure something out. Wendy says she
was breaking up with him, but she has an aversion
to conflicts, so that could have been her way to
avoid it. She's asked about what time the TV repairman left,
and Wendy thought it was around ten. After he left,
(05:27):
she did some work around the house for a couple
of hours, talked to some friends, ate breakfast, and left
home close to noon to run a few errands. After
the errands, she went to meet two friends that she
would meet on Fridays for lunch. She went down Trescott
Drive after she left her house. She said that's the
route she used to take, but there was yellow tape up,
(05:50):
so she made a three point turn and continued down
another road. She's asked how far down Trescott she went
until she turned around, and she said she got up
to the road block. The night before Dan was killed,
the kids were with him, and that morning he had
taken them to preschool. The plan was for Wendy to
pick them up that afternoon. She's asked if she had
(06:11):
talked to her boys that morning, and she had not,
and she also did not speak to Dan. They did
have plans to talk, she says, she called and he
didn't pick up. When she got to the roadblock and
saw that Trescott was blocked off. She says she did
not try to call Dan or the daycare after seeing
that she was on the phone at the time she
(06:31):
came to the roadblock and may have told the other
person that she needed to hold on while she did
her three point turn. She says she wasn't concerned about
the roadblock, and she doesn't remember if Dan was set
to leave Friday or Saturday to go to New York.
Prosecution says, let's look at your law enforcement interview. Wendy
says he had plans to be out of town and
(06:52):
that he was leaving on Saturday. Prosecutor asked if the
killers knew he was going out of town, how would
they know? Says, I don't know, and she doesn't know
if Charlie knew Dan was leaving to go out of town.
She said Donna usually knew their schedule as far as
Wendy and the boys, and probably would have known Wendy
would have been the one to have the boys that weekend,
(07:15):
but not necessarily that Dan was leaving to go out
of town. She's asked if Donna kept meticulous records of
every time that Dan went out of town. In fact,
she sent you a record that went back to twenty ten.
Wendy said Donna never switched over to a Google calendar,
so she would keep that meticulous planner of everything. Prosecution
(07:37):
brings up that Dan left Wendy a voicemail on the
morning of his murder. He said he was going to
the gym between nine fifteen and ten thirty. Wendy said
they were trying to touch base about the children's schooling,
so that's why he was so specific about when he
would be at the gym. She did talk to Charlie
at nine thirty am that morning for eighteen minutes, and
(07:59):
she said that talked about the TV she called to
see if it made sense to repair it or just
buy a new one. She can't say if she talked
about Dan's travel plans to Charlie or not. She said
at the time she had WhatsApp on her phone and
she would use it to talk to people who lived
out of the country because it was free. Now, back
(08:19):
at that time, it would have been very expensive to
text somebody internationally on the phone. She doesn't know if
she ever talked to Katie on what's App. Back to
her activities the day of the murder. After seeing the roadblock.
She went to the liquor store. She had been invited
to a stock the bar party and they asked for
a very specific kind of bourbon, so she asked the
(08:41):
employee for help. It was bullet bourbon and it was
bought at twelve forty nine pm. She may have gotten
gas and then drove to lunch. After that, law enforcement
came in and got her. Now, after the murder, she
relocated to Miami. Wendy said she left Tallahassee after the funeral,
but took a week end her her and her boys,
thinking that they would be back quickly. She came back
(09:04):
a couple of times to get things and give a talk.
Prosecutor points out that within forty eight hours after the shooting,
she was back in South Florida. Detective Isom called her
while she was on her way back to Miami. Wendy
said he maybe wanted to get some DNA from her kids.
They were already halfway down the road and had been
(09:26):
in the car for about four hours with the boys.
Wendy says the call broke up and he did not
call back to follow up. The prosecutor asked if she
was faking the call breaking up and she said no.
Shortly after that, Wendy told Detective Isom he could contact
her attorney. She says he never followed up. When asked
(09:46):
if she was happy to be out of Tallahassee, she
said no. So the prosecution asks about a January first,
twenty sixteen text that she sent someone. Wendy says that
would be a year and a half later. It's not
a question of being happy. It was me building a
new life, and the prosecutor has her turn to a tab.
(10:06):
Wendy says she doesn't know who she was talking to.
Prosecutor says, it's not a big deal. But did you
say I'm so happy I don't live there? And the
person responds, I bet it's a crap pole. Prosecutor says,
would it surprised you that you were talking to your brother, Charlie.
Wendy says she doesn't know if it would surprise her.
Did you change your children's name after Dan was killed?
(10:29):
Wendy says about a year later, prosecution you changed their
last name from Markel to what and Wendy says mine Adelson. Yes,
and she also changed her oldest son's middle name. Prosecutor
brings in an email dated July third, twenty fourteen. Wendy
looks at it and says it's an evite for her
(10:50):
dad's seventieth birthday and she doesn't know if she sent
it to herself or if her mom sent it to her.
She says she may have helped them with the evite
and it was addressed to Wendy and the two boys.
Prosecution points out this is before the murder. The state
brings up an email where it is confirming that Lincoln
(11:10):
will attend Todd Shabbat with Harvey, and they want to
know who sent it was at Harvey. Wendy said it
seems like somebody else, but she would also say that
Lincoln will attend this event with his mom. It's awkward
to say things in the third person, but it's not
impossible the subject on that email was Lincoln Adelson and
(11:31):
this is before the name change was done officially. Wendy
said she was scared about putting the boys in school
and was using the name Adelson socially for about a
year before officially changing their last name. That started when
she had to register the boys for school. She's asked
if Donna helped her with a registration Wendy doesn't think so.
(11:53):
But the prosecutor brings in an email about flag football
and the email is from Donna and it says we
registered him as Ben Adelson. She's asked where Dan was buried,
and he was in Toronto. She's asked if her and
the boys attended, and they did not. When was the
last time you spoke to your mother? As we sit
(12:14):
here today, Wendy kind of looks up at the ceiling
and says November of twenty twenty three. That would have
been the same month Charlie was convicted and Donna was arrested.
She's asked if Donna has given her any information or
advice on how to testify in this case.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
No.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
The prosecutor goes back to Charlie's trial. Did your mom
offer you advice about testifying at his trial? And Wendy
says yes. She was hoping Wendy would be supportive of
her brother, and afterwards Donna was devastated and she did
not feel Wendy was supportive of Charlie. Wendy says she
wasn't involved in any way in the plot to kill
Dan and has no knowledge of it happening. She didn't
(12:54):
provide any information, even unknowingly, to assist in the murder.
Regarding Donna's involvement, Wendy says she has no information to
that she knows. Charlie said that about buying the TV.
It was a tasteless joke. But the prosecutor points out
someone did hire a hitman. She asked, Wendy, was the
part of the plot to kill Dan for you to
(13:16):
have plausible deniability. Wendy again says she was not involved
in any plot to kill Danny. Why did you tell
investigator Iso in your law enforcement interview that you were
worried in the police car on the way to be interviewed,
that you were worried you would be a suspect?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
She said, Dan.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Didn't have anything bad going on in his life other
than divorced stuff, so it may make them think it
could be her. Prosecutor says, you mentioned nine times in
your interview something about being a suspect. Yes, when you
were approached at the restaurant, you weren't yet told this
is a shooting, only that something happened to your ex.
(13:55):
Wendy says she doesn't even think that she was worried
at first. It was something with the kids kids. She
was told law enforcement officers were with the boys and
she didn't know why. She said, in the police car,
they told her Dan had been shot, and the prosecution asked,
you were told that prior to being in the interview room.
She says, yes, I could be mistaken, and please correct
(14:18):
me if I'm wrong. But they tell her in the
interview room he's been shot, and then she starts crying.
You allow law enforcement to take your computer. Wendy said
she gave permission for everything she had to be helpful.
She's asked if she told investigators she didn't think she
was going back to work and just to take the laptop.
Wendy said her life had just fallen apart. Did you
(14:40):
suggest your parents may be angry enough to kill Dan?
Wendy said, I suggested a lot of people, And the
prosecution says, but some of the people were your parents. Yes,
you said you didn't think they were capable of doing that.
Did your mom have someone she could enlist to assist her?
And Wendy says, I don't know what was your first
thought when you were asked if anyone would kill Dan
(15:02):
for your benefit? She said, at first she thought maybe
a crazed friend or a former student. Prosecution said, that's
not what you said. First, you said Charlie. Wendy says,
you have it there. Miss Capelman says, can you tell
the jury you did say Charlie was one of those people?
And Wendy says I did. Did you say if someone
(15:23):
tried to kill my ex, they should be prosecuted to
the fullest extent of the law, and detective is asks,
regardless of who it is, do you recall your answer?
Wendy said, I was hoping it wasn't anyone in my family,
and the idea of that gave me pause. Prosecution said,
but that wasn't your answer. Was it was your answer?
It would be different if I thought it was my brother. Yes,
(15:45):
Wendy says she did call her mom from the interview room.
Did she advise that your dad was in the shower?
Wendy doesn't remember. Did you ask her to sit down?
Wendy said she did. She was concerned about Donna's age
and if she fell she hurt herself. Did she ask
to put you on speaker?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Why?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Wendy says, so my dad could hear. Prosecution points out,
wasn't dad in the shower. Wendy doesn't know. Was anyone
else there, maybe Charlie, Wendy doesn't think so. Did you
ask your mom to tell Charlie what was going on? Yes,
your mom took the news pretty well, and Wendy said,
Donna was upset. Did you say something else? You said,
(16:25):
my mom handled that pretty well. Wendy said, I may
have said that so as her look at the transcript
and Wendy says, yes, did you say, well, they sounded
really surprised, so that's a relief. Wendy says, yes, and
that was it for direct on Cross. Donna's defense asked
when was the last time you listened to the call?
And by the call, she is referring to the call
(16:48):
Wendy made to Donna from the interview room at the
Law Enforcement Center to tell her Dan had been shocked.
Wendy says she's never watched it. She's read the transcript,
though you don't remember the shock and your mom voice,
and Wendy says, yes. There was a photo of Katie
and another lady at the beach with you on Father's
Day weekend twenty fourteen, and your testimony was you only
(17:10):
knew Katie with Charlie. Was Charlie or your mom at
the beach that day, No, you had a dinner with
Charlie and Katie. Was it before or after the beach trip?
Wendy said several months before. It was probably in March
or April of that same year. So the dinner that
was the first place you met Katie. Wendy says, as
far as I remember, Yes, it was me, Charlie, Katie,
(17:33):
and Jeff. They talk about when Wendy was young, Donna
didn't work. She did go back to teaching after Wendy
was in school. The defense points out all three kids
got post graduate degrees. Donna was a good mom. She
was loving, caring. Yes, you once said she radiates positivity.
She's completely selfless. Did you say that?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Did you say your mom never did anything for herself.
She invested in your lives. Wendy says that Donna was
a very good mother and grandmother. Defense points out when
Wendy had her kids, Donna came and spent time helping.
When the baby cried in the middle of the night,
Donna would get up so Wendy could rest, And Wendy agrees,
your mom's been there for you in small and big ways.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
After you left Dan in September of twenty twelve and
into January of twenty thirteen, did Donna spend a lot
of time there in Tallahassee helping you with the boys, Yes,
things like homework, bought groceries, she cooked, cleaned.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
The family dental practice was close to them. When they
were in Coral Springs, Wendy said they would work around
Monday to Thursday and stay in Coral Springs during that
time and then go to Miami some weekends, and Wendy
would sometimes visit. She's asked when Donna would come up
to help or visit with you and Dan. She would
sometimes fly, and she would sometimes drive, but mostly drive.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Defense points out that's an eight hour trip and around
that time, your mom would have been sixty fourish.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
They also point out Donna is now seventy five. Sometimes
she would rent cars to drive, and sometimes Harvey would
come with her as well. Back in the beginning, Wendy
said she was attracted to Dan. They got married and
there were times that they had a happy marriage. The
defense said that your parents took you and Dan on trips,
and one time that was in Costa Rica and something
(19:29):
about a zipline. Wendy said, yes, I went ziplining while
I was pregnant, and Donna kind of smiled at this.
Defense points out Dan was very intelligent, with two Harvard degrees.
He did a lot of writing, he had a tenure
at FSU, which takes a lot of work. He traveled
to speak and was well respected by his colleagues. And
Wendy agrees with all of that. And the defense says,
(19:51):
the kids became the love of his life, and after
you separated, Dan made a big effort to get as
much time with the kids as he could. Yeah, yes,
he would skype and you helped with that, but not
necessarily the schedule he wanted.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
And Wendy said she tried.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
She's asked if Donna was kind to Dan before the separation, Yes,
what about after the divorce.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
The defense says, we've seen ugly things that she said
about him, and some of the pleadings weren't attractive towards
you as well. Wendy says, that's true. You shared some
of the things with your mom that upset you, and
then she became upset and said ugly things about Dan,
But she never suggested Danny deserved to be harmed or killed,
and Wendy says never. The defense points out during the
(20:36):
separation and after the divorce, sometimes Dan would call Donna
for help, and if he did, she would come and help. Yes,
before you filed the petition for dissolution of marriage, what
kind of experience did you have with divorce proceedings? And
Wendy doesn't understand the question. The defense asked if she
was familiar with family law, and Wendy says no, she has.
(20:59):
Wendy read the former husband's counter motion for enforcement of
the marital settlement agreement on parenting issues and a motion
for contempt and sanctions. She's asked, it doesn't say anything
about a grandmother motion, does it?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
No, the defense.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
In fact, the overwhelming majority of that motion was about
you and parenting issues. His complaint in that grandmother motion
is him complaining that you are not meeting the requirements
of the first refusal. Now what that means in family court?
That would be the parent offering the other parent the
ability to care for the kids if they needed help,
(21:37):
and Dan mentioned if you gave it, sometimes he could
take it, and then the boys wouldn't be with Donna.
It wasn't that he was asking Donna to only have
supervised visitation moving forward. Wendy said that's not how she
saw it, and Donna never saw that motion. According to Wendy,
now that's kind of crazy because the grandparent motion was
(21:58):
like an alienation of a infection thing where the boys
had mentioned Donna had said bad things about Dan to
his kids. So I think that was a bit of
a reach on that. It was pretty clear what Dan wanted.
The state has referred to this bribe because there's emails
that discuss offering Dan a million dollars. You thought it
wasn't to take the kids away from him, but rather
(22:21):
it was in the hopes that Dan would relocate to
Miami and you could.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Still raise your kids together.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
There were more opportunities for Dan to practice his Jewish
faith in Miami than in Tallahassee, like better restaurants that
serve kosher foods. So the money wasn't a bribe, but
more of an incentive for him to relocate there. And
he liked it when you lived there before. Wendy says,
very much so, and she agrees with everything Donna's attorney said.
(22:48):
Defense says that Dan tried to get a job at
the University of Miami School of Law, but he didn't
get it and he had already been employed at FSU,
so they moved back. The money Donna was talking about
offering Dan would be to offset his travel if he
moved to Miami, since he only taught school two days
a week in Tallahassee, and that would give him money
(23:09):
to take plane trips while still giving him fifty to
fifty custody with the kids. Wendy agrees, somewhere around October
or November of twenty twelve, you interviewed for a job
in Miami, and Wendy says, yes. It was with Grossman
and Roth. In December of twenty twelve, they made Wendy
an offer. Wendy said, what made that ideal for her
(23:30):
is that it was more secure as opposed to grant
money that could have been taken away, which would have
been her job. In January, you told Dan you had
the job offer, she said. They went to get coffee
and talk. She asked if he would consider all of
them relocating to Miami, and she said he was not
opposed to it, but he changed his mind. Wendy said.
(23:51):
Wendy didn't change hers, and she filed the relocation motion,
and she also amended her dissolution of marriage to include relocation.
In June of twenty thirteen, just before the divorce's final
you had the relocation hearing and you were denied. You
were able to work out a schedule for summer, and
you ended up settling the divorce. Did you always want
(24:13):
the kids to be a big part of Dan's life?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
They bring in an email from Harvey about the TV
appointment on the day of Dan's murder. The order creation
date for that was July eleventh, twenty fourteen. Harvey called
the geek squads and there were problems with the screen.
They go through a lot of questions Harvey had to answer,
and one of those was would you be willing to
accept an earlier appointment if one's available, and Harvey chose yes.
(24:40):
They move on to the name change and the defense
points out it was officially changed a year after the murder.
She says, you went to Miami and your oldest was
going to kindergarten, the youngest was going to a preschool program,
and you registered them with the last name Mark Hell.
But because you were going to socially refer to them
as Adelson. You asked the school to refer to them
(25:03):
as Aidelson when you went to orientation. Did his little
name plate say Adelson. Wendy doesn't remember, but you asked
that he be called Aidelson, and Wendy says yes. The
defense reminds Wendy she was shown that exhibit where Donna
had registered the boy as Aidelson. The defense essentially has
Wendy say that's why Donna referred to him as Adelson,
(25:26):
because Wendy was doing that socially, and the same with
the email about Harvey referring to Lincoln as Aidelson. Wendy
explains Todd Shabbat, it's a Sabbath activity where the grandparents
would come with the kids to sing songs. Wendy says
she thought the name Adelson would make them safer. You
were asked about buying a home and it was suggested
(25:47):
Charlie convinced you not to, and you said it was
because you had not gotten your settlement from Dan. Wendy
said that's correct, and that meant she didn't have the
money to buy the house. The defense says Donna's making
a lot of suggestions, like telling Dan you're going to
raise the kids as Catholics, but she wasn't suggesting you
do it, but more as a means of negotiating. Wendy
(26:08):
said that was her understanding. You said your mom hated
Dan before his murder, but a week before she was
babysitting for him and made him banana bread without nuts
but with chocolate chips. Is there a difference between being
mad and hating someone? Wendy says yes. She brings up
the prosecution saying that Wendy would not have left without
(26:30):
her brother and mom suggesting it. Wendy says, I wouldn't
have had the strength to leave on my own. The
defense asks if after her school year was over at FSU,
she would go to Coral Springs or Miami and spend
two weeks with Donna and Harvey together with Dan, and
then with the kids when they came along. Wendy says yes.
(26:51):
Summer of twenty twelve is when you decided to leave him.
Dan was there and the kids too, and you and
your mom went out for coffee, and that's when you
told her you were going to leave Dan. Did Donna
suggest counseling? Wendy said they had been in counseling and
it didn't work, but she does not remember going for
coffee with Donna. Defense talks about the questions with law
(27:12):
enforcement the day Dan was shot. They pointed out things
you said about your family when you were interviewed. You
said Dan's parents are going to think you're the one
who did it, and Wendy says yes. Regarding relocation. June eighteenth,
twenty thirteen, there was a hearing, and prior to that,
you told your mom that since she would be testifying
in court, she would need to wait outside. Wendy doesn't remember,
(27:35):
so she has Wendy re from the transcript and it says,
because you're testifying in court, you won't be able to
sit in the hearing with me. Moving back just a bit,
April of twenty thirteen, you took a trip with a
man named Miguel because you were speaking at a conference.
Wendy doesn't remember the trip, but says she was seeing
somebody named Miguel. She's reminded that trip was to Puerto Rico,
(27:58):
and the defense gives their documents to look over. There
was an email written April twenty eighth, twenty thirteen, to Renee.
This is when you're coming back from your trip and
your parents had the boys while you were gone. You
have bullet points about what you want to do to
resolve your divorce. Is that correct? Wendy said, not just that,
(28:18):
but how I want to live my life overall. So
the defense refers to the last bullet point. It says,
I've been coming to a place in the last few
months where I realize I want to keep my job.
It allows me maximum flexibility to spend time with my
kids while allowing the freedom for intellectual exploration, one on
(28:39):
one mentoring with students, and meaningful work in the community.
I don't care that derogatory name for Dan said I
stole from him and that I'm mentally ill. Nasty things
are said in divorces, and people know that Tallahassee isn't
where I ever wanted to live, but it's where my
job is, and it's where the boy's father is, and
(28:59):
that that means they aren't constantly flying on planes or
driving in cars to accomplish our custody situation. The defense says,
you have the petition for relocation, but you're starting to
think Tallahassee is where you need to be, and Wendy
says yes. They bring up an email for May second
of twenty thirteen, and in the email, Wendy says she
(29:19):
loves sitting in on graduation, but Dan usually doesn't because
he's typically at synagogue. In the email, you say it's
on Sunday this year and I have the boys, but
the dean wants all faculty to attend so Mom can
watch my boys. Was it routine for you to get
their help if you needed it?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Another email June fourth, twenty thirteen to Renee is close
to the relocation hearing that was taking place on June eighteenth,
and you say concerns about what you've been through in
the divorce, but Dan send along message about how they
could do things differently, talk about their vision for the
boy's future, and you greed you want to do it peacefully.
(30:02):
Wendy says, yes, So you call Gary, the partner who
offered you the job in Miami, to come testify at
this relocation hearing. Yes, but one thing you say is
I've changed my mind, And the defense points out you
could have called Charlie and say I'm gonna stand Tallahassee.
I hope one day you'll understand, and you could say
the same to your parents and tell them they are
(30:24):
free to come visit anytime. Wendy says, yes, could have
done that. The next page is the alternative, which is
to have Gary testify.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Your mom's going to testify.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And you thought the hearing was going to be one
or two days, and you acknowledge it's going to cost
more money, it's gonna be more stress. And you say,
to save face with my family and be given an
opportunity that I don't want, which is to live with
them in South Florida. But you say, I'm willing to
put myself through all this just to keep up appearances
(30:54):
that I want to live in South Florida even though
I don't want to. Wendy says yeah. And you say
it would be giving up my flexible job that allows
me to spend more time with my kids. Yes, The
defense says, you chose the second alternative. Wendy said, I
went through with the hearing. She's handed a transcript. Gary testified,
(31:14):
You testified, and then the judge called a time out.
Wendy doesn't remember that, but the judge made some comments
that the kids had not been harmed with Dan and
since he had not pulled out their toenails, it seemed
like the judge was leaning towards no. Wendy says, that's correct.
The defense says, but you didn't call all of your witnesses.
Your mom stayed outside with your dad during the testimony.
(31:38):
Wendy said, I asked her to because if she was
going to testify, she needed to stay outside. But then
you came outside and said it was denied, and Wendy
says yes. The defense points out it was after the
denial when those emails that.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Got ugly were written. Yes.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
She's asked if relocation was ever an issue again, and
Wendy says no. That was the end of discussion about
relocation and there were no more plans about how to
get relocation. It had been decided. The defense points out
that this denial is with prejudice, meaning it's over cannot
be revisited. In other words, Wendy would not be able
(32:13):
to leave Tallahassee until those boys turned eighteen, and that's
it couldn't bring it back to court, the defense says.
Before that, it says, as such, both parties stipulate to this,
and Wendy agrees. The defense says, but you didn't tell
your parents that you stipulated to this, and Wendy doesn't
think so. The defense says, so your mom thought you
(32:34):
still had a chance to get it, and she kept
writing all of these ugly emails. But if you had
told her that you stipulated, that would have been the
end of it. And Wendy says, I don't know if
it would be the end. That would be guessing. The
defense says, after July thirty first, she didn't write any
more emails, and Wendy doesn't know. You said mom hated
(32:56):
Dan at the time he was killed, but you clarified
she was mad, but you testified that you hated Dan.
Wendy doesn't remember saying that. There is a sidebar. They
end up taking a break. When they come back, they're
reading from something Wendy wrote talking about her wedding day.
It was like being an actor on someone else's show.
(33:18):
The defense says, you knew on your honeymoon. You said
you were enjoying the vacation, but you weren't sure you
liked him, let alone loved him. I was eager to
start a life with someone, and he was with me.
Wendy doesn't remember that. The defense your boys lost their
father on the day he was murdered. They're growing up
and eleven years has passed without any of his influence.
(33:41):
He's not here to give them advice, come to any
of their functions. They're not eating kosher because on July eighteenth,
he was brutally murdered. And you testified anyone in your
family who had anything to do with this murder should
be held responsible.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Wendy says, yes, defense and that includes you, doesn't Wendy says,
anyone who's responsible? And that was the end of cross
And can I just say Donna's attorney brought it right there.
That was a mic drop moment, so very clear here
Donna doesn't mind throwing Wendy under the bus y'all. I
(34:19):
cannot wait for Charlie to get on that stand because
she threw him under the bus in openings, you know,
Charlie's heard about that. So Charlie has an appeal that
he's trying to get and we all know the chances
of that likely slim to none. Does Charlie play it
safe or is Charlie gonna get bitter and just go
(34:40):
after his mom? I can't wait for the day he
takes the stand. Moving on to redirect Prosecutor Kapelman when
you said you felt like an actor in someone else's show.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Whose show was it?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Wendy said she felt she wasn't present in her own
life because she is a people pleaser. She's always tried
to make others happy. Prosecutor says, including your mom, and
that's why you kept going with the relocation. Wendy says
that's part of her reason. You were asked on Cross
about stipulating with prejudice. Do you remember doing that. Wendy
(35:15):
says she doesn't remember actively stipulating. The prosecutor points out,
you have previously said you did not know what with
prejudice meant, just a reminder Wendy is an attorney, but
Wendy says she does not use that in her daily
practice and at the time she forgot that with prejudice
meant it was a final order, over and done.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
On Cross, they said your mom was not told about
the stipulation and she was misled. But they bring in
a document and the email is from Donna and Harvey's
email to a friend of theirs and is signed love Donna,
so we know Donna sent it. And in the email,
Donna indicates there is no chance at the appellate level
for relocation.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Wendy agrees.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Is that dated June twenty fifth of twenty thirteen, Yes,
five days after your mom knew that order was final,
and we know that based on this email. Wendy says, yes,
your mom never suggested harm to Dan, but she wanted
to bribe him, take control from him, aggravate him, scare him,
(36:21):
give him some grief, take something from him, show that
effort what would make him absolutely miserable, right, but definitely
not kill him. Wendy says, I don't know what the
question is. And the prosecutor says, Donna was caring and
devoted to your boys, and maybe she cared a little
too much about your life and what was going on.
(36:43):
Wendy says, I don't know that you can care too much.
Prosecutor Kapelman, so her Nazi uniform idea that came from
a place of love. Would you agree with that? And
Wendy says yes. Prosecutor said her lawyers are trying to
downplay this, but she looked into having those boys baptized
and could do it within two weeks. She justified it
(37:04):
would be harmless to your kids, because it's like playing
dress up like Jake the Pirate. Wendy says, yes, she
thought the ends would justify the means, and a move
to South Florida was best for you and your kids,
who she cared about more than anyone in the world.
Wendy says, I don't know who she cares about more,
but maybe my dad. The prosecution says the kids were
(37:27):
going to have better support. Mom has a more lucrative job,
and your lives depended on it. Isn't that what she said? Yes,
the defense said Dan could have moved right. Yes, he
could have enjoyed all that delicious kosher food in South Florida,
and if he did, you could have happily co parented
the boys. But he just wouldn't relent, wouldy. Wendy said,
(37:47):
we had a hearing and the judge said no. Prosecutor
says he wouldn't give your mom what she wanted. Wendy
said her and Dan only had one conversation about it.
It was not an ongoing thing that they talked about.
You were asked on cross if you thought things would
have been great for Dan in Miami. Wendy says it
(38:07):
would have been, but he wouldn't agree, and that was
the end of redirect. So after Wendy was her older brother,
Rob Adelson. So once he's sworn in, they go through
the siblings and the order. He's the oldest, Charlie's the middle,
Wendy's the youngest.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
He said.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Donna is more controlling, where Harvey is more passive. Donna
was a very involved parent when they were growing up,
but she had these fixed ideas of things she wanted
to happen in her children's lives, and if they didn't
do those things, it wasn't acceptable. If you went along
with her, things were fine, and if you didn't, things
were not fine. She had very strong feelings about their
(38:49):
occupations and who they married. He said, that's one of
the reasons he became a doctor. After everybody grew up
and Wendy and Rob got married and had kids of
their own, she was morey and then a lesser degree
to Charlie at that point, and even lesser involved with him.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
He said.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
It was not a healthy level of involvement, overinvolved and
more on the controlling side. Charlie always needed more attention
than here Wendy did. When Wendy left Dan, he didn't
know there were any problems until after she left him,
and then Donna's focus shifted to Wendy. He said Charlie
was dependent on Donna to organize things with the dental practice,
(39:29):
and he does remember growing up that Donna would be
writing checks on their kitchen table just keeping up with
the practice. Harvey sold the business to Charlie around twenty twelve,
and then Charlie sold it back to Harvey sometime between
the winter of twenty fifteen into twenty sixteen. Donna is
the kind of person who would have questions if you
want her to do something. She wouldn't just blindly do things.
(39:52):
At first, Donna was very positive about Dan when he
and Wendy got together, but that changed as the relationship
headed towards divorce. He only heard bad things about Dan
after Wendy moved out, but never before. In twenty thirteen,
he said Donna hated Dan based on things Donna would
say to him. He also said Wendy would play the
(40:15):
damsel in distress during her divorce. Donna did talk to
Rob about the divorce some and the phrase that sticks
out in his head the most is Dan is depoting
Wendy to death. There were also complaints about mediations and
depositions that Wendy had to go through. So they go
into Donna explaining to him about how they planned for
(40:35):
Wendy to leave Dan. Donna had been in Tallahassee for
several months looking for a place to rent for Wendy,
moving money around and getting things set up. Donna told
him this all at once, just days after Wendy left Dan,
and she told him rather gleefully that she was pleased
(40:57):
that she and Wendy timed the phone call where Wendy
told Dan she was leaving him to just before Dan
was going to get on stage to give his speech.
In order to hide that they were renting a place,
they used Donna's maiden name so there wouldn't be an
Adelson in Tallahassee ForWord to get around. Donna was looking
(41:17):
over Wendy's motions, and she did that when they were visiting.
At one point they were in his house getting ready
to go to the hospital, I believe, for the birth
of one of his daughters, and Donna came to visit.
She wanted the WiFi because she was going over emails
to help with the divorce. He said this would have
been in October of twenty twelve, Donna told him Wendy
(41:40):
was trying to get permission to move to Miami, and
also about the one million dollar bribe. In the year
or two after Wendy left Dan, Donna said Wendy needed
her help and she was up in Tallahassee a lot.
He said from their conversations, Donna cared more about Wendy's
divorce than anybody. He said, Charlie, he cares about go karts,
(42:01):
jet skis, boats going out, but not Wendy's divorce.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
He said.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Donna is very into her grandkids and their success, but
he doesn't think Wendy moving to Miami was more important
to Charlie than it was to Donna. Donna was fixated
on Wendy taking a job with Gary and Miami, and
it came up a lot in his discussions with Donna.
She said Wendy would make a million dollars a year
and be a partner. The only time he heard any
(42:28):
anger from Donna after the murder was Whinny asked if
Wendy would go to work for Gary, but the job
didn't work out because his partners wouldn't let him hire Wendy.
After the murder in the summer of twenty fourteen. Towards
the end of June, Wendy sent Rob a text referencing
having a boyfriend, and that would have been before Dan's murder.
(42:51):
He said it was very unusual because Wendy would never
share anything about her relationships with him, and his impression
was that his parents did not know about this relationship.
In the text, Wendy said she was going to Gainesville
for the weekend and Rob had lived there three years prior,
and so he asked Wendy, who is this Jeff guy,
and Wendy said her boyfriend. She even sent pictures of
(43:14):
her and Jeff with her boys at Wacla Springs. After
the murder, he felt compelled to tell law enforcement about
Jeff and he showed them the photos. He said, two
or three weeks before the murder, July fifth, twenty fourteen,
Harvey turned seventy and they had this big party at
the condo in Miami. There was an email saying that
(43:35):
your dad doesn't want gifts. He just wants to be
with all of his kids for his birthday. And Rob
said Harvey really was not into gifts. He said, if
a gift is going to be given to anybody. Donna
would say, here's the gift, and here's what you owe
if you want to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
He said.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
The place they lived in Miami was very secure. They
had celebrities that lived in there, and he remembered that
a Rod from the u Yankees was one. He thinks
they have been living there around six or so months.
They were just trying it out to see if they
liked living in South Beach.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
He said.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
To him, it seemed like they were there full time,
but still had the house in Coral Springs. Charlie and
Wendy were at the party, as well as Wendy and
Dan's boys. He said they had a caterer and a
chef on the balcony. He first heard about Dan's murder
the day after, on July nineteenth. He was in Chicago
for a meeting and at first he got a phone call.
(44:29):
He picked up, asked to call back later. Then he
got a text that said tragedy here, please call and
it was from Donna. So he called and he said
he will remember that forever. Donna said, just want to
let you know Danny's been shot and he didn't make it.
They were driving up to Tallahassee to help Wendy and
said they really couldn't talk further. He said his mom
(44:51):
wasn't crying. She was just very matter of fact. The
only other time he talked to her that weekend was
the next day when he was in the airport going home.
Donna told him that someone went to the front door
and asked, are you Dan Markel. He said yes, and
they shot him. Rob says, how do you know that?
Donna said, well, that's what they're telling us. But he
(45:13):
said he knew there was only one way to hear
that story, and it bothered him, and later he found
out that that story wasn't true. He also pointed out
during that conversation again she wasn't crying. Law enforcement came
back to his house. He was at work, so they
talked to his wife, and he later talked to them
at his office the next day after the interview with
(45:33):
the FBI.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
He said it was that afternoon. Maybe the next day.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Donna called and said, if the police come around, don't
talk to them. He told her he already had and
she said, you don't know anything anyway, and he said
that was unusual. He said, he's not gonna not talk
to the FBI if they show up to his house.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
He said.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
After the murder, Donna did not seem curious about who
killed Dan. In fact, none of them seemed curious. He
asked Donnah what she thought happened, and those conversations were
always re routed or discouraged. But around mid August, he asked,
what is going on? This case is getting notoriety. It's
all over the news, so we wanted to know what
(46:16):
they thought happened. Donna said, I don't know, don't care.
He said, this was an unsolved murder of my brother
in law. There was national interest, and nobody had curiosity
about who killed Dan, but his murder was not a
subject to be discussed. Fast forward to twenty sixteen, when
Sigfredo and Rivera were arrested. Somebody told him about it.
(46:40):
In the doctor's lounge, he asked his wife, should we
call mom and dad? Their anniversary was coming up two
days after he found out, so they thought they would
wait and see if they reached out. He thought, maybe
they're stressed, and just like he thought, on the twenty eighth,
Donna called, but she didn't mention it thing about the arrest.
(47:02):
She wished Rob and his wife, Well, the had small talk,
and he said he kind of let it go for
a bit in the conversation, but he said, this is
not small news. And he finally said to Donna, hey,
they arrested someone.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
No response.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
He said it two or three times and Donna said,
I've got to go. She hung up, and they never
talked about it again after that. Not sure if he
meant they never talked again, or just about the arrest
or the murder in general. On cross in twenty twelve
to twenty fourteen, how many times did you visit your
(47:36):
family in South Florida? He said October of twenty twelve
was when his daughter was born, so twenty thirteen thanksgivings
were typically the times they would travel with a one
and a three year old, and also for Harvey's birthday.
He definitely knows of two times and maybe one other time.
The defense points out that Rob would come into town,
(47:57):
stay a couple of days in leave well because he's
a door and had a job. As far as phone calls,
Rob said maybe every other week. He was there for
Harvey's birthday on the fifth and he left the sixth.
Dan was killed July eighteenth and the defense asked when
did you come to town to be with your family,
and Rob says, I didn't. You said your mom called
and said you should not talk to the police. But
(48:20):
what happened is a family friend, mister Weinstein, he called
and advised the family shouldn't talk to police, and Rob
says yes, and that was the end of cross. There
was no redirect So I really just think that Rob
came across as very credible. I also think that him
describing how his mother was also her coldness after the murder,
(48:44):
no interest in who killed their ex son in law,
the father of their grandkids, nothing. I think it's going
to be very impactful on that jury, even though he
wasn't on the stand, a fraction of what Wendy was
today very powerful in what he did and bless us,
he seems very very tortured as you can imagine. We
will see what happens tomorrow, but that is it for
(49:06):
this episode. Hope you guys have a good morning and
we will see soon
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