August 30, 2025 • 24 mins
FBI Special Agent Patrick Sanford walks the jury through the dropped jail call with Charlie the day after his conviction where Donna is heard talking about fleeing to Vietnam, making financial arrangements, mentioning self harm, complaining about Wendi and more. This call is ultimately what allowed law enforcement to secure an arrest warrant.
He also talks about before and after her arrest at the Miami International Airport.
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He also talks about before and after her arrest at the Miami International Airport.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What you know, alibiyers. Welcome to another episode of Pretty
Lies and Alibis.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Jigi.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
It's Saturday, August thirtieth. We are going to get all
caught up today with yesterday's testimony. The state rested, so
the defense case will start on Tuesday. There is no
court Monday. It is a holiday. Next week on Wednesday,
I'm supposedly for crime Con, so this is an issue.
My biggest fear is that Donna is going to be
(00:26):
on the stand when I'm flying to Denver and then
at crime Con. But we will figure out what to do.
Let's jump into day six. They start off talking about
the arrest Sigfreda was arrested May twenty fifth of twenty sixteen.
Rivera was served a few days after that, on June third.
He was already in custody. Katie was arrested October first,
(00:50):
and then Charlie a few years later. April twenty one,
twenty twenty two. Katie was found guilty and proffered or
told all. This was after she was victed at the
second trial. Her profit took place on October eleventh, twenty
twenty two, and the witness was present for that who
by the way, FBI Special Agent Patrick Sanford still on
(01:11):
the stand and the investigation had been ongoing for over
eight years at that point. During Katie's proffer, they learned
that Charlie first approached her on Halloween twenty thirteen on
Lincoln Road about hiring someone, and Charlie's former attorney, Dan
Rashbaum confirmed Charlie was in fact there at this party.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So back to the calls.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
We're going to jump into the what I call the
hot Mike call or the dropped jail call, and that
call is what led to Donna being arrested. This was
the day after Charlie's conviction. The call starts off with
the call being dropped. She's asking Charlie, can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Now? They do have a friend in the room. His
name is mister Brothman.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Donna tells the people in the room that Charlie is
in a room where they watch you twenty four to
seven so he doesn't harm himself, and this is something
that is common after someone is convicted and facing a
life sentence.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
She said.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
The psychologist finally came in and he told her, if
you leave me here, I'm gonna hurt myself. There's no light, nothing,
so at least let me go back to my cell
so I can see where I am. She told Charlie
know that he was perfectly fine, and said she had
a few reports to write and submit. Once those were approved,
he would be able to go back to his cell,
(02:26):
and he thought it would be quick, but Charlie told
her she better get it done because he's going to
lose his mind in there. Their friend, mister Brothman, says
he's probably not ready, so don't push. Donna says, I
think it would be a nice way to just leave,
say goodbye. I'm not going to lose my son who's
going to prison for something he didn't do. I can't function,
and Donna says, I'm old. I had a life. We
(02:47):
had a great marriage. It was happy, we traveled, we
lived good. I'm really not that happy. I really don't
want him to leave, to just say goodbye, so let
me lay down something nice, nothing painful. I just want
to go to sleep. We bought our cemetery property a
couple of months ago.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
We're good. I'm good. It was hard to hear the
first part of.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
This, but they talk about what Wendy did this weekend
because I said something that made her feel like I
had enough and I'm not going to watch if the
court or the trial doesn't go well, I know what
I need to do. Then they talk about Wendy coming over,
and they knew something was wrong because they lived here
nine years and she never once came over and said
I need to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Donna says.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Wendy sat down on the couch and she didn't say,
this is a horrible time for all of us. Charlie
is on trial for his life, we're all aggravated. She
just sat there and said, look, if you're going to
hurt yourself, I'm going to Baker act you, which means
have her involuntarily committed. Donna said she told Wendy, I'm
not going to hurt myself. I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Are we going to see the boys tomorrow night? And
she said yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Donna was talking about her and Harvey doing this together
and leaving a note they'll know when to come get
us and we'll do it together. I've got to make
a decision at some point. After speaking to Rashbomb this
morning and knowing what they're thinking up there, meaning thinking
about arresting her, she said, I don't know if we'll
make it out in time. I really don't, but rash
(04:16):
Bomb said you might, or you might get to the
airport and they'll stop you, and that could happen. Donna says,
I don't know, but it's worth a try. Donna says
she doesn't know what she's doing and that she's lost it.
She says they have to do all that stuff for
Charlie's son, and mister Brothman starts saying what's best for
him is to make a trust and then from what
I understand from the call, is to put the child's
(04:38):
mother as the trustee. Donna talks about somebody named George
has not responded to her yet, but she says I
could sit here with you and say, Wendy, would you
do that? But I can't because there's no response. Wendy
told me my lawyer, this her lawyer, that if it's
about the case, and I told her it's not about
the case. We found out that's not true. I asked
(05:00):
my attorney and he said no. He asked Wendy's attorney
and her attorney said, I never told her that. So
I wrote to Wendy last night. It said, we know
you never ask anything about your brother. But we just
got off the phone with him, and the first thing
he asked was, how's Wendy holding up. I didn't have
the heart to tell him you never called or asked
(05:21):
about him. I just said you weren't up for phone
calls right now. Everyone looks to protect you. I bet
you've got a lot to think about. But then she
didn't answer. I got another call from Charlie. I told Wendy,
I just got off the phone with Charlie. He's worried
about you. He wants to know why they didn't speak,
and I told him a lie. I said, we're only
(05:42):
speaking with you and Dan right now. I couldn't bear
to tell him the truth, which is your sister never
even called us this morning. I thought she would be
racing over here. But I get a text. Dear Mom,
I know you're upset by the verdict, but the anger
directed at me is not justified. I'm not responsible in
any way for Charlie's situation. I'm not guilty because I
(06:04):
didn't do anything wrong and I wasn't involved in any
way with Danny's death. Donna says I didn't say she
was when I was interviewed by the police and testified
in court. I told the truth as I was required
to do. I cannot troll how the prosecutor used my
statements for Charlie's trial. Donna says, again, I didn't say that.
Wendy continues, Also, as you know, my lawyer has advised
(06:27):
me not to talk to my family or anyone else.
I followed his advice despite your disagreement with his guidance.
Please do not text me about this case anymore, Donna
says to her friends, it's not about the case.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It's not what I said.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
But Wendy says, if you have anything further to say
about the case, please go through our lawyers.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I have to be focused on taking care of the
boys during this difficult time. Donna says. She wrote back, Okay,
we have no desire to speak with you about the case.
I guess Dad and I are just shocked that you
didn't think of coming over to see us or even
calling us. We are your parents, We've always been there
for you and the boys. None of what we wrote
(07:08):
matters about the case that's over. I just want you
to know how many times Charlie is asking about you.
Not only do you not ask about us, but not
one question about Charlie. We will need to give you
some information shortly, and we need some business assistance. Please
let us know if you can be of any help.
If not, we'll try to find someone who can help us.
(07:31):
This needs an immediate reply so I can start asking
other people to help. Donna tells the people there that
Wendy's always getting nervous if they want to talk to her.
So I wrote, don't get nervous again. Nothing nothing about
the case. Just want to show you some business stuff
and personal things. If you can't do it, we must
(07:53):
find someone who can. I hope you understand that this
has nothing to do with the case. There is no
more case. By the way, you said, you have to
focus on the boys. Have you told them? Donna had
been in touch with someone named George, who I believe
don't quote me on this Wendy was seeing at the time.
He was over at Wendy's the night Charlie was convicted.
(08:14):
Donna asked George if Wendy told the boys, and he
said she did. Donna says the oldest was very close
with Charlie and had been writing to Charlie all the time.
So I asked how are they? She said, Ben is
very quiet and he didn't talk much. George said, Lincoln
kind of faced it and said, so he's never coming back.
He's never coming home. Took about ten minutes and then
(08:37):
he was into his basketball again, which is fine. He's
a child. I don't want to see them miserable and upset.
That's not my goal. I just want to know how
are they. Donna also said she asked George for some
help with some computer stuff and he told her he
could come later that day. Donna goes on to say
she is a safe there in the house and she
wanted to give Wendy the codes since they're going to
(08:58):
be gone, and she want wanted her to have all
this information. She says, I have the cemetery property. I
want her to see all that. I want her to
have all these papers. She also told someone named Rick
they have the safe with the passports, and also they
need to get the photos for the passports downloaded. She said,
I thought my daughter could help me with it. We've
(09:19):
been looking it up over and over because things change,
like is their extradition from Vietnam and we're looking for
places where there's no extradition. But mister Brothman questions, is
Wendy going to tell on you and say, my parents
are thinking of leaving the country. Donna said their attorney
told them to do that, meaning leave. Donna says, well,
(09:41):
that's when you tell her beforehand. I need to tell
you something. As an attorney who doesn't talk and has
nothing to do with the case, it just has to
do with mom and I and some decisions we have
to make. I want to bring her up and show
her where everything is, because if the plane crashed, no
one's going to know where anything is or what belongs
(10:02):
to who. I want her to come here so she
can see it. And I don't think that's asking too much.
She doesn't live three hours away. And every time Wendy
says can you do this? Can you come here? How
many times have we had plans that I've had to cancel.
Wendy needs us for this, Wendy needs us to babysit.
So we've been really good nannies. And I guess our
(10:23):
job is up. Because the boys are older, they can
go out with friends and they can do things on
their own, so she doesn't need grandma and grandpa. Okay,
pretty hurtful. I have one son I don't speak with.
I have one son who seems dead, and my daughter,
who I love.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Is doing this.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I don't get it, I said to Harvey, I swear
to God our family was cursed, absolutely cursed, and I
don't know how to take care of it anymore. So
after that call is played, the prosecution is back up
talks about the plans to go to Vietnam, and they
did investigate to look into whether or not that was
(11:01):
going to happen. They didn't hear that dropped call for
a couple of days, but he did check with a
government agency to see if there was a travel plan
and he was told yes, there was. The plan was
to fly to Dubai and then Vietnam.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
He said.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Vietnam is a non extradition country as well as Dubai.
The travel was to take place the evening of November thirteenth,
twenty twenty three. Andy said they intercepted Donna prior to
getting on the flight at the Miami International Airport. While
they were apprehending Donna, they tried to seize her cell
phone and she did not willingly give it to them.
(11:36):
She physically resisted when he reached out to get the phone.
She pulled it away and said no, and kept holding
it away and tried to turn away from him. Another
officer who was there grabbed Donna's arm and held it,
and then they were able to take her phone, he said,
but she was still trying to keep it from us.
They talk about a planner from twenty fourteen that was
(11:57):
given to the State Attorney's office through prior council, and
Donna kept a lot of personal information as well as
identifying information for members of her family and friends.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
This, y'all, was a big kicker for me. Right here.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
In that planner they found she had written down that
Dan drove a two thousand and eight accord and she
also had the tag number written beside that. Prosecution points
out this was the same car the killers pursued, and
he agrees. He also says the plane ticket was one
way with no return flight booked. The prosecutor makes clear
(12:35):
that planner was given to them by Dan Rashbaum and
was not found in the actual search warrant of her residence,
and also they found Dan's tag number in the backward
Names and addresses are kept on cross. She asked when
he came on the case as the lead investigator for
the FBI. He said Dan was murdered on a Friday,
and he was called that following Monday. She says her client,
(12:58):
as he knows, when she has something to say or
something on her mind, she writes about it a lot.
And speaking of Charlie, he's the opposite. When he has
something on his mind, he can't shut up Canny. The
investigator says, that's correct. She points out on the wiretap calls,
you can hear Donna saying yeah, yeah, yeah, and then
when she realizes she can change the subject, she does.
(13:20):
The defense says if you don't hear the entire call,
you may not know the entire context. And she asked
if on some of the conversations they talk about traffic.
He says he knows that Katie and Charlie did. The
defense says, it's clear. At some point Charlie starts to
be pretty concerned about what's going on and why is
my family continuing to be contacted, And you see a
(13:40):
change in his demeanor. For example, there's a couple of
calls between him and Katie where he's pretty angry and
letting her know something needs to be done. Somebody needs
to call this number. She asked, was he angry with her?
The witness said, no, that's not his perception. He was
angry at the situation, she says, but a certain point
when talking about the brother in Broward County, Katie knows
(14:04):
Rivera has been incarcerated there, and so she is starting
to get concerned this may be somebody who's involved. The
defense says, when Charlie talks to Donna, he's always reassuring
her everything's fine. Sometimes it's ninety nine percent, one hundred percent,
sometimes a thousand, and he's telling his mom there's nothing
to worry about. Nobody's coming after you. You're okay, and
(14:25):
the witness agrees, and she points out that out of
all of the co conspirators, the wire taps were only
approved for Katie and Charlie, and he agrees. Rivera's phone
was tapped, but that was for a separate case, the
one he was ultimately incarcerated for, separate from this one.
They did get an extension on the wire taps between
Charlie and Katie. She goes through Dan being killed them
(14:47):
following him and points out during the course of that morning,
there was communication between Dan and Wendy. She talks about
that voicemailed Dan left and said it was a pleasant message.
There were also text messages between Dan and Wendy after that.
She said Dan didn't know what was happening when he
hugged and kissed his boys and sent them into the classroom.
He didn't know that would be the last time he
(15:09):
would see his kids. She goes through Sigfredo shooting Dan,
the neighbor calling nine one one, and once they respond,
they put the crime scene tape up. The defense moves
onto Wendy's law enforcement interview, which lasted for several hours.
There's people in and out of the room. She's being
audio and video recorded, and she says a lot of things,
(15:30):
including Dan's parents are going to think I did it.
She answers questions about who possibly could have done this,
and she gives a lot of choices, maybe an angry student,
maybe somebody who's upset with them. And then she talks
about her family and says her brother had previously joked
he was going to hire a hit man, but decided
buying her a TV was cheaper. Then Wendy says her
(15:52):
parents dislike Dan more than anybody in the witness agrees
The defense asks after Wendy's interview, did the Ai family
become suspects? He said, it depends on your definition of suspects,
but they are persons of interest at this point. There
were numerous persons of interest before they focused on the
Adelson family, and they really started to focus on them
(16:14):
about a year after the murder. She asked if they
started recording the phone conversations after the bump, and he
said no, they were actually recording about a week before.
The wires between Charlie and Katie ended around June seventh,
twenty sixteen. She asked if somebody was listening to the
wire taps or if they were being recorded. He says
(16:34):
people have to listen to know when to minimize, meaning
topics that are being discussed to have nothing to do
with the investigation. They don't listen to those, but they
are recorded. The defense points out one phone call was
over fifty minutes, but during that conversation, Charlie talks about
wanting to become a professional go kart driver, and the
defense points out not every minute of these conversations were
(16:58):
relevant to the case and the witness. She asked about
Jeff Lacass being a person of interest. He said, I'm
sure he was at some point, but the witness never
dealt with him. However, we know initially they were looking
into Jeff. The defense attorney points out Wendy did not
refer to Jeff as somebody who would have done this.
They refer to a call that's been previously mentioned in
(17:19):
the trial where Charlie is telling Katie to go into
his garage to get some presents. He tells Katie to
take her shirt off to get the code. The defense
points out coincidentally, Katie had a tattoo on her ribs
with the exact same numbers as his garage code. They
move on to the dul Ja Vita recording and they
refer to his statement Charlie made saying trust me, I'll
(17:40):
keep you full time so you're getting your checks, and
the witness remembers Charlie saying that to Katie. The witness
was there at Dulce Vita. However, he did not go
inside because he had previously been close to Charlie and
Donna when they met on the boardwalk, and he did
not want to risk Charlie recognizing him. As far as
video surveillance, they were watching sig Fredo and Katie.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Nobody had to be there to monitor.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
They put a camera up apparently on like a fixed
pole or something like that. She asked about when Katie
wanted to meet Charlie to pick up checks before the bump.
They showed some photos of Charlie and Katy beside that
Lexus that she was driving. He said they did surveillance
on that. He's asked, how did you know she was
going to pick up the checks, and he's like the wires.
(18:27):
As far as figuring out where to do the bump
on Donna, he said, FBI personnel did surveillance to get
a pattern of life so they could figure out where
she was going and win. They knew she consistently would
walk to go pick up the kids from school at
a certain time each day, and that's where they decided
to do the bump. The defense asked at what point
did Donna become a suspect, and he said once they
(18:48):
identified sig Fredo as being in Tallahassee the day of
the murder, and then at the gym, they go on
to identify Rivera and then they go back to get
phone records and linked came to them and we know
the link between Katie and Charlie. The defense points out
at a press conference, the Adolsons were listed as being suspects.
(19:09):
He doesn't remember them being called suspects at the press conference,
but it is mentioned in the probable cause Affidavid for
sig Fredo. But I do remember at one press conference
they had a graphic they were holding up that had everybody,
including the Adolsons, on it. I'm just not sure which
your rest. She points out. After Dan's murder, Donna and
Harvey traveled several times out of the country and they
(19:31):
came back, and the witness agrees. She also points out
on the wire types Charlie would tell Donna, you didn't
do anything to anybody. Donna would say at times she
wanted to talk in person as opposed to the phone,
and her attorney asks, have you gotten any evidence to
show why she is saying those things? And the witness
is like, nope. She talks about Katie given the proffers
(19:52):
after her conviction, where she told a very different story
than what she testified to in both trials. She also
pointed out in this trial, Katie mentioned she hoped to
be able to see her kids one day. In the
first proffer they did not feel that Katie was being
very forthcoming or answering truthfully, And the defense points out
at one point the witness got up and walked out.
(20:13):
He said, that is something that they do which is strategic,
just to give people time to think. Then they move
on to that dropped Jael call. He was aware of
that on a Friday, and they started looking through that
database about international travel to see if Donna had booked anything.
It wasn't until Monday they found out she did have
a ticket for a flight. He had a contact who
(20:35):
reached out to him and said there was a flight
to Vietnam booked. The defense points out, while Vietnam is
not an extradition country, in certain cases they do extradite,
and murder is.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
One of those.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
She's asked about at any point prior to when Donna
was arrested, did they have an arrest for it?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And they did not.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Over the years, they went through tons of emails, listen
to calls no warrants. The defense says, you knew she
was getting a visa for travel no warrant. He says,
that's correct, you're aware on the dropped call she spoke
to her attorney about traveling and he said it's okay,
and the witness says yes, there was still no warrant.
They packed their bags. No warrant correct. Then they move
(21:16):
on to the day of Donna's arrest. He left from
Tallahassee to go to Miami. The State Attorney's office told
him they were considering getting a warrant, and they decided
around three or four that afternoon to get one. They
talk about her Vietnam visa being valid until February second,
twenty twenty four, making that a ninety day visa. Once
(21:37):
he was at the airport, he spoke with an FBI
agent who was already there. They find out what terminal
her and Harvey were flying out of and moved to
that area. They kind of stood away from the gate
and the flight was scheduled to take off around eight
ten pm. He watched Donna and Harvey for maybe twenty
minutes before the boarding process started.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
She asks did.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Donna and Harvey have on any wigs or hats or goes. No,
they had a couple of carry on bags and they
get in line to board the flight. Their tickets are
scanned by the gate agent and once they made it
through to where they would start to actually board the plane.
There were customs agents there and that's when Donna was
taken into custody. The defense pointed out, you were in
(22:17):
a waiting area where she was and you could have
arrested her then, and he agrees, in your investigation, you
found no connection between Donna and Sigfredo, Donna and Rivera,
and Katie met Donna once when she had a dental appointment,
but there is no direct connection between the two of them,
and he agrees Donna never plainly said she wanted Dan
to be killed or wanted to hire someone to have
(22:39):
him killed. No, and that was the end of cross
So on a redirect, you're aware. Charlie's defense was that
he had been extorted over the course of two years,
and that's why Donna was sending the checks because essentially
she was also being extorted. The prosecution says, as part
of the extortion, the checks were given to Katie, but
she was just cashing them and giving them to the killers.
(23:02):
Prosecution talks about Charlie being really friendly with Katie and saying, yeah,
you know, and so you're very friendly with somebody in
calls and text who's extorting you. Prosecution says, So his
defense was, the hitman came Tallahassee unsolicited, they killed Dan,
and they hoped to be able to get some money
out of Charlie and Donna. The witness said, that's what
Charlie said, but Charlie didn't have enough money, so now
(23:25):
they're going to be put on a.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Layaway plan to pay overtime.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And Charlie's defense was, that's why Donna was writing those checks,
and the witness agrees. She moves on to talk about
Donna's grandson's bar mitzvah that was set to take place
January fourteenth at ten thirty in the morning. The prosecution asked,
did she book a return flight that would get her
home in time to attend her grandson's bar mitzvah. No,
(23:49):
the prosecution said that. Donna's defense team said the witness
picked snippets of the wiretap calls to come in at trial,
But the prosecutor also points out if they want to
listen to the entire that is available to them in
the jury room, and the witness agrees. So that was
it For FBI Special Agent Patrick Sanford. I'm going to
have part two out this afternoon. We're going to cover
(24:11):
the search warrant that was done at Donna's. The two
jailhouse informants testified there's a handwriting expert and more so
look for that in a couple of hours. But that's
it for this one. Hope you have a good rest
of your afternoon and we will see you soon
What you know, alibiyers. Welcome to another episode of Pretty
Lies and Alibis.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Jigi.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
It's Saturday, August thirtieth. We are going to get all
caught up today with yesterday's testimony. The state rested, so
the defense case will start on Tuesday. There is no
court Monday. It is a holiday. Next week on Wednesday,
I'm supposedly for crime Con, so this is an issue.
My biggest fear is that Donna is going to be
(00:26):
on the stand when I'm flying to Denver and then
at crime Con. But we will figure out what to do.
Let's jump into day six. They start off talking about
the arrest Sigfreda was arrested May twenty fifth of twenty sixteen.
Rivera was served a few days after that, on June third.
He was already in custody. Katie was arrested October first,
(00:50):
and then Charlie a few years later. April twenty one,
twenty twenty two. Katie was found guilty and proffered or
told all. This was after she was victed at the
second trial. Her profit took place on October eleventh, twenty
twenty two, and the witness was present for that who
by the way, FBI Special Agent Patrick Sanford still on
(01:11):
the stand and the investigation had been ongoing for over
eight years at that point. During Katie's proffer, they learned
that Charlie first approached her on Halloween twenty thirteen on
Lincoln Road about hiring someone, and Charlie's former attorney, Dan
Rashbaum confirmed Charlie was in fact there at this party.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So back to the calls.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
We're going to jump into the what I call the
hot Mike call or the dropped jail call, and that
call is what led to Donna being arrested. This was
the day after Charlie's conviction. The call starts off with
the call being dropped. She's asking Charlie, can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Now? They do have a friend in the room. His
name is mister Brothman.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Donna tells the people in the room that Charlie is
in a room where they watch you twenty four to
seven so he doesn't harm himself, and this is something
that is common after someone is convicted and facing a
life sentence.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
She said.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
The psychologist finally came in and he told her, if
you leave me here, I'm gonna hurt myself. There's no light, nothing,
so at least let me go back to my cell
so I can see where I am. She told Charlie
know that he was perfectly fine, and said she had
a few reports to write and submit. Once those were approved,
he would be able to go back to his cell,
(02:26):
and he thought it would be quick, but Charlie told
her she better get it done because he's going to
lose his mind in there. Their friend, mister Brothman, says
he's probably not ready, so don't push. Donna says, I
think it would be a nice way to just leave,
say goodbye. I'm not going to lose my son who's
going to prison for something he didn't do. I can't function,
and Donna says, I'm old. I had a life. We
(02:47):
had a great marriage. It was happy, we traveled, we
lived good. I'm really not that happy. I really don't
want him to leave, to just say goodbye, so let
me lay down something nice, nothing painful. I just want
to go to sleep. We bought our cemetery property a
couple of months ago.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
We're good. I'm good. It was hard to hear the
first part of.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
This, but they talk about what Wendy did this weekend
because I said something that made her feel like I
had enough and I'm not going to watch if the
court or the trial doesn't go well, I know what
I need to do. Then they talk about Wendy coming over,
and they knew something was wrong because they lived here
nine years and she never once came over and said
I need to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Donna says.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Wendy sat down on the couch and she didn't say,
this is a horrible time for all of us. Charlie
is on trial for his life, we're all aggravated. She
just sat there and said, look, if you're going to
hurt yourself, I'm going to Baker act you, which means
have her involuntarily committed. Donna said she told Wendy, I'm
not going to hurt myself. I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Are we going to see the boys tomorrow night? And
she said yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Donna was talking about her and Harvey doing this together
and leaving a note they'll know when to come get
us and we'll do it together. I've got to make
a decision at some point. After speaking to Rashbomb this
morning and knowing what they're thinking up there, meaning thinking
about arresting her, she said, I don't know if we'll
make it out in time. I really don't, but rash
(04:16):
Bomb said you might, or you might get to the
airport and they'll stop you, and that could happen. Donna says,
I don't know, but it's worth a try. Donna says
she doesn't know what she's doing and that she's lost it.
She says they have to do all that stuff for
Charlie's son, and mister Brothman starts saying what's best for
him is to make a trust and then from what
I understand from the call, is to put the child's
(04:38):
mother as the trustee. Donna talks about somebody named George
has not responded to her yet, but she says I
could sit here with you and say, Wendy, would you
do that? But I can't because there's no response. Wendy
told me my lawyer, this her lawyer, that if it's
about the case, and I told her it's not about
the case. We found out that's not true. I asked
(05:00):
my attorney and he said no. He asked Wendy's attorney
and her attorney said, I never told her that. So
I wrote to Wendy last night. It said, we know
you never ask anything about your brother. But we just
got off the phone with him, and the first thing
he asked was, how's Wendy holding up. I didn't have
the heart to tell him you never called or asked
(05:21):
about him. I just said you weren't up for phone
calls right now. Everyone looks to protect you. I bet
you've got a lot to think about. But then she
didn't answer. I got another call from Charlie. I told Wendy,
I just got off the phone with Charlie. He's worried
about you. He wants to know why they didn't speak,
and I told him a lie. I said, we're only
(05:42):
speaking with you and Dan right now. I couldn't bear
to tell him the truth, which is your sister never
even called us this morning. I thought she would be
racing over here. But I get a text. Dear Mom,
I know you're upset by the verdict, but the anger
directed at me is not justified. I'm not responsible in
any way for Charlie's situation. I'm not guilty because I
(06:04):
didn't do anything wrong and I wasn't involved in any
way with Danny's death. Donna says I didn't say she
was when I was interviewed by the police and testified
in court. I told the truth as I was required
to do. I cannot troll how the prosecutor used my
statements for Charlie's trial. Donna says, again, I didn't say that.
Wendy continues, Also, as you know, my lawyer has advised
(06:27):
me not to talk to my family or anyone else.
I followed his advice despite your disagreement with his guidance.
Please do not text me about this case anymore, Donna
says to her friends, it's not about the case.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
It's not what I said.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
But Wendy says, if you have anything further to say
about the case, please go through our lawyers.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I have to be focused on taking care of the
boys during this difficult time. Donna says. She wrote back, Okay,
we have no desire to speak with you about the case.
I guess Dad and I are just shocked that you
didn't think of coming over to see us or even
calling us. We are your parents, We've always been there
for you and the boys. None of what we wrote
(07:08):
matters about the case that's over. I just want you
to know how many times Charlie is asking about you.
Not only do you not ask about us, but not
one question about Charlie. We will need to give you
some information shortly, and we need some business assistance. Please
let us know if you can be of any help.
If not, we'll try to find someone who can help us.
(07:31):
This needs an immediate reply so I can start asking
other people to help. Donna tells the people there that
Wendy's always getting nervous if they want to talk to her.
So I wrote, don't get nervous again. Nothing nothing about
the case. Just want to show you some business stuff
and personal things. If you can't do it, we must
(07:53):
find someone who can. I hope you understand that this
has nothing to do with the case. There is no
more case. By the way, you said, you have to
focus on the boys. Have you told them? Donna had
been in touch with someone named George, who I believe
don't quote me on this Wendy was seeing at the time.
He was over at Wendy's the night Charlie was convicted.
(08:14):
Donna asked George if Wendy told the boys, and he
said she did. Donna says the oldest was very close
with Charlie and had been writing to Charlie all the time.
So I asked how are they? She said, Ben is
very quiet and he didn't talk much. George said, Lincoln
kind of faced it and said, so he's never coming back.
He's never coming home. Took about ten minutes and then
(08:37):
he was into his basketball again, which is fine. He's
a child. I don't want to see them miserable and upset.
That's not my goal. I just want to know how
are they. Donna also said she asked George for some
help with some computer stuff and he told her he
could come later that day. Donna goes on to say
she is a safe there in the house and she
wanted to give Wendy the codes since they're going to
(08:58):
be gone, and she want wanted her to have all
this information. She says, I have the cemetery property. I
want her to see all that. I want her to
have all these papers. She also told someone named Rick
they have the safe with the passports, and also they
need to get the photos for the passports downloaded. She said,
I thought my daughter could help me with it. We've
(09:19):
been looking it up over and over because things change,
like is their extradition from Vietnam and we're looking for
places where there's no extradition. But mister Brothman questions, is
Wendy going to tell on you and say, my parents
are thinking of leaving the country. Donna said their attorney
told them to do that, meaning leave. Donna says, well,
(09:41):
that's when you tell her beforehand. I need to tell
you something. As an attorney who doesn't talk and has
nothing to do with the case, it just has to
do with mom and I and some decisions we have
to make. I want to bring her up and show
her where everything is, because if the plane crashed, no
one's going to know where anything is or what belongs
(10:02):
to who. I want her to come here so she
can see it. And I don't think that's asking too much.
She doesn't live three hours away. And every time Wendy
says can you do this? Can you come here? How
many times have we had plans that I've had to cancel.
Wendy needs us for this, Wendy needs us to babysit.
So we've been really good nannies. And I guess our
(10:23):
job is up. Because the boys are older, they can
go out with friends and they can do things on
their own, so she doesn't need grandma and grandpa. Okay,
pretty hurtful. I have one son I don't speak with.
I have one son who seems dead, and my daughter,
who I love.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Is doing this.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I don't get it, I said to Harvey, I swear
to God our family was cursed, absolutely cursed, and I
don't know how to take care of it anymore. So
after that call is played, the prosecution is back up
talks about the plans to go to Vietnam, and they
did investigate to look into whether or not that was
(11:01):
going to happen. They didn't hear that dropped call for
a couple of days, but he did check with a
government agency to see if there was a travel plan
and he was told yes, there was. The plan was
to fly to Dubai and then Vietnam.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
He said.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Vietnam is a non extradition country as well as Dubai.
The travel was to take place the evening of November thirteenth,
twenty twenty three. Andy said they intercepted Donna prior to
getting on the flight at the Miami International Airport. While
they were apprehending Donna, they tried to seize her cell
phone and she did not willingly give it to them.
(11:36):
She physically resisted when he reached out to get the phone.
She pulled it away and said no, and kept holding
it away and tried to turn away from him. Another
officer who was there grabbed Donna's arm and held it,
and then they were able to take her phone, he said,
but she was still trying to keep it from us.
They talk about a planner from twenty fourteen that was
(11:57):
given to the State Attorney's office through prior council, and
Donna kept a lot of personal information as well as
identifying information for members of her family and friends.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
This, y'all, was a big kicker for me. Right here.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
In that planner they found she had written down that
Dan drove a two thousand and eight accord and she
also had the tag number written beside that. Prosecution points
out this was the same car the killers pursued, and
he agrees. He also says the plane ticket was one
way with no return flight booked. The prosecutor makes clear
(12:35):
that planner was given to them by Dan Rashbaum and
was not found in the actual search warrant of her residence,
and also they found Dan's tag number in the backward
Names and addresses are kept on cross. She asked when
he came on the case as the lead investigator for
the FBI. He said Dan was murdered on a Friday,
and he was called that following Monday. She says her client,
(12:58):
as he knows, when she has something to say or
something on her mind, she writes about it a lot.
And speaking of Charlie, he's the opposite. When he has
something on his mind, he can't shut up Canny. The
investigator says, that's correct. She points out on the wiretap calls,
you can hear Donna saying yeah, yeah, yeah, and then
when she realizes she can change the subject, she does.
(13:20):
The defense says if you don't hear the entire call,
you may not know the entire context. And she asked
if on some of the conversations they talk about traffic.
He says he knows that Katie and Charlie did. The
defense says, it's clear. At some point Charlie starts to
be pretty concerned about what's going on and why is
my family continuing to be contacted, And you see a
(13:40):
change in his demeanor. For example, there's a couple of
calls between him and Katie where he's pretty angry and
letting her know something needs to be done. Somebody needs
to call this number. She asked, was he angry with her?
The witness said, no, that's not his perception. He was
angry at the situation, she says, but a certain point
when talking about the brother in Broward County, Katie knows
(14:04):
Rivera has been incarcerated there, and so she is starting
to get concerned this may be somebody who's involved. The
defense says, when Charlie talks to Donna, he's always reassuring
her everything's fine. Sometimes it's ninety nine percent, one hundred percent,
sometimes a thousand, and he's telling his mom there's nothing
to worry about. Nobody's coming after you. You're okay, and
(14:25):
the witness agrees, and she points out that out of
all of the co conspirators, the wire taps were only
approved for Katie and Charlie, and he agrees. Rivera's phone
was tapped, but that was for a separate case, the
one he was ultimately incarcerated for, separate from this one.
They did get an extension on the wire taps between
Charlie and Katie. She goes through Dan being killed them
(14:47):
following him and points out during the course of that morning,
there was communication between Dan and Wendy. She talks about
that voicemailed Dan left and said it was a pleasant message.
There were also text messages between Dan and Wendy after that.
She said Dan didn't know what was happening when he
hugged and kissed his boys and sent them into the classroom.
He didn't know that would be the last time he
(15:09):
would see his kids. She goes through Sigfredo shooting Dan,
the neighbor calling nine one one, and once they respond,
they put the crime scene tape up. The defense moves
onto Wendy's law enforcement interview, which lasted for several hours.
There's people in and out of the room. She's being
audio and video recorded, and she says a lot of things,
(15:30):
including Dan's parents are going to think I did it.
She answers questions about who possibly could have done this,
and she gives a lot of choices, maybe an angry student,
maybe somebody who's upset with them. And then she talks
about her family and says her brother had previously joked
he was going to hire a hit man, but decided
buying her a TV was cheaper. Then Wendy says her
(15:52):
parents dislike Dan more than anybody in the witness agrees
The defense asks after Wendy's interview, did the Ai family
become suspects? He said, it depends on your definition of suspects,
but they are persons of interest at this point. There
were numerous persons of interest before they focused on the
Adelson family, and they really started to focus on them
(16:14):
about a year after the murder. She asked if they
started recording the phone conversations after the bump, and he
said no, they were actually recording about a week before.
The wires between Charlie and Katie ended around June seventh,
twenty sixteen. She asked if somebody was listening to the
wire taps or if they were being recorded. He says
(16:34):
people have to listen to know when to minimize, meaning
topics that are being discussed to have nothing to do
with the investigation. They don't listen to those, but they
are recorded. The defense points out one phone call was
over fifty minutes, but during that conversation, Charlie talks about
wanting to become a professional go kart driver, and the
defense points out not every minute of these conversations were
(16:58):
relevant to the case and the witness. She asked about
Jeff Lacass being a person of interest. He said, I'm
sure he was at some point, but the witness never
dealt with him. However, we know initially they were looking
into Jeff. The defense attorney points out Wendy did not
refer to Jeff as somebody who would have done this.
They refer to a call that's been previously mentioned in
(17:19):
the trial where Charlie is telling Katie to go into
his garage to get some presents. He tells Katie to
take her shirt off to get the code. The defense
points out coincidentally, Katie had a tattoo on her ribs
with the exact same numbers as his garage code. They
move on to the dul Ja Vita recording and they
refer to his statement Charlie made saying trust me, I'll
(17:40):
keep you full time so you're getting your checks, and
the witness remembers Charlie saying that to Katie. The witness
was there at Dulce Vita. However, he did not go
inside because he had previously been close to Charlie and
Donna when they met on the boardwalk, and he did
not want to risk Charlie recognizing him. As far as
video surveillance, they were watching sig Fredo and Katie.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Nobody had to be there to monitor.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
They put a camera up apparently on like a fixed
pole or something like that. She asked about when Katie
wanted to meet Charlie to pick up checks before the bump.
They showed some photos of Charlie and Katy beside that
Lexus that she was driving. He said they did surveillance
on that. He's asked, how did you know she was
going to pick up the checks, and he's like the wires.
(18:27):
As far as figuring out where to do the bump
on Donna, he said, FBI personnel did surveillance to get
a pattern of life so they could figure out where
she was going and win. They knew she consistently would
walk to go pick up the kids from school at
a certain time each day, and that's where they decided
to do the bump. The defense asked at what point
did Donna become a suspect, and he said once they
(18:48):
identified sig Fredo as being in Tallahassee the day of
the murder, and then at the gym, they go on
to identify Rivera and then they go back to get
phone records and linked came to them and we know
the link between Katie and Charlie. The defense points out
at a press conference, the Adolsons were listed as being suspects.
(19:09):
He doesn't remember them being called suspects at the press conference,
but it is mentioned in the probable cause Affidavid for
sig Fredo. But I do remember at one press conference
they had a graphic they were holding up that had everybody,
including the Adolsons, on it. I'm just not sure which
your rest. She points out. After Dan's murder, Donna and
Harvey traveled several times out of the country and they
(19:31):
came back, and the witness agrees. She also points out
on the wire types Charlie would tell Donna, you didn't
do anything to anybody. Donna would say at times she
wanted to talk in person as opposed to the phone,
and her attorney asks, have you gotten any evidence to
show why she is saying those things? And the witness
is like, nope. She talks about Katie given the proffers
(19:52):
after her conviction, where she told a very different story
than what she testified to in both trials. She also
pointed out in this trial, Katie mentioned she hoped to
be able to see her kids one day. In the
first proffer they did not feel that Katie was being
very forthcoming or answering truthfully, And the defense points out
at one point the witness got up and walked out.
(20:13):
He said, that is something that they do which is strategic,
just to give people time to think. Then they move
on to that dropped Jael call. He was aware of
that on a Friday, and they started looking through that
database about international travel to see if Donna had booked anything.
It wasn't until Monday they found out she did have
a ticket for a flight. He had a contact who
(20:35):
reached out to him and said there was a flight
to Vietnam booked. The defense points out, while Vietnam is
not an extradition country, in certain cases they do extradite,
and murder is.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
One of those.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
She's asked about at any point prior to when Donna
was arrested, did they have an arrest for it?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And they did not.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Over the years, they went through tons of emails, listen
to calls no warrants. The defense says, you knew she
was getting a visa for travel no warrant. He says,
that's correct, you're aware on the dropped call she spoke
to her attorney about traveling and he said it's okay,
and the witness says yes, there was still no warrant.
They packed their bags. No warrant correct. Then they move
(21:16):
on to the day of Donna's arrest. He left from
Tallahassee to go to Miami. The State Attorney's office told
him they were considering getting a warrant, and they decided
around three or four that afternoon to get one. They
talk about her Vietnam visa being valid until February second,
twenty twenty four, making that a ninety day visa. Once
(21:37):
he was at the airport, he spoke with an FBI
agent who was already there. They find out what terminal
her and Harvey were flying out of and moved to
that area. They kind of stood away from the gate
and the flight was scheduled to take off around eight
ten pm. He watched Donna and Harvey for maybe twenty
minutes before the boarding process started.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
She asks did.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Donna and Harvey have on any wigs or hats or goes. No,
they had a couple of carry on bags and they
get in line to board the flight. Their tickets are
scanned by the gate agent and once they made it
through to where they would start to actually board the plane.
There were customs agents there and that's when Donna was
taken into custody. The defense pointed out, you were in
(22:17):
a waiting area where she was and you could have
arrested her then, and he agrees, in your investigation, you
found no connection between Donna and Sigfredo, Donna and Rivera,
and Katie met Donna once when she had a dental appointment,
but there is no direct connection between the two of them,
and he agrees Donna never plainly said she wanted Dan
to be killed or wanted to hire someone to have
(22:39):
him killed. No, and that was the end of cross
So on a redirect, you're aware. Charlie's defense was that
he had been extorted over the course of two years,
and that's why Donna was sending the checks because essentially
she was also being extorted. The prosecution says, as part
of the extortion, the checks were given to Katie, but
she was just cashing them and giving them to the killers.
(23:02):
Prosecution talks about Charlie being really friendly with Katie and saying, yeah,
you know, and so you're very friendly with somebody in
calls and text who's extorting you. Prosecution says, So his
defense was, the hitman came Tallahassee unsolicited, they killed Dan,
and they hoped to be able to get some money
out of Charlie and Donna. The witness said, that's what
Charlie said, but Charlie didn't have enough money, so now
(23:25):
they're going to be put on a.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Layaway plan to pay overtime.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And Charlie's defense was, that's why Donna was writing those checks,
and the witness agrees. She moves on to talk about
Donna's grandson's bar mitzvah that was set to take place
January fourteenth at ten thirty in the morning. The prosecution asked,
did she book a return flight that would get her
home in time to attend her grandson's bar mitzvah. No,
(23:49):
the prosecution said that. Donna's defense team said the witness
picked snippets of the wiretap calls to come in at trial,
But the prosecutor also points out if they want to
listen to the entire that is available to them in
the jury room, and the witness agrees. So that was
it For FBI Special Agent Patrick Sanford. I'm going to
have part two out this afternoon. We're going to cover
(24:11):
the search warrant that was done at Donna's. The two
jailhouse informants testified there's a handwriting expert and more so
look for that in a couple of hours. But that's
it for this one. Hope you have a good rest
of your afternoon and we will see you soon
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