September 2, 2025 • 18 mins
We hear from people who interviewed the jail house snitches, a few of Donna and Harvey's friends, a forensic cell phone expert, and more. My $.02 - a disasterous start for the defense.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What you know, Alibyers. Welcome to another episode of Pretty
Lies and Alibis. I'm Gigi. It's Tuesday, September second. Hope
you guys had a nice long weekend. We are back
at it day seven of the Donna Adelson trial and
day one of the defense case. Before we jump in,
don't forget to hit subscribe if you haven't already on YouTube.
(00:21):
Liked the video. That is one of the easiest ways
to help my podcast out. And also if you want
notifications of when I post new content or go live,
click that little bell icon. I'm leaving tomorrow for Denver
for Crime Con and I do plan to go live randomly,
so that way, if I do, you know about it
and you can come watch. I know Lieutenant Hermaicio said
(00:42):
he's going to come hang out at the booth for
a bit, so you might catch a glimpse of him,
and who knows who else. So I try not to
put a lot of opinion into the cases that I
covered these days. I've just found I like the groove
of going from A to B and being done. But y'all,
I think Day one of the defence case was a
dumpster fire. I mean, there was absolutely nothing brought forth
(01:06):
by any witnesses that I think helped Donna at all.
And here's the other kicker. I think if Donna takes
the stand, it could be tomorrow. I'm gonna be traveling. Luckily,
I have a later flight out at four thirty, so
if she goes early, I can make notes. But regardless,
I'll be watching on the plane. I will be live
streaming still and I will do an update tomorrow night
(01:27):
from Denver. It just may be late, depending on when
we get in and get settled. Let's jump in. So
the first witness up was a friend of Donna's, Mims Cunningham.
They've known each other since two thousand and nine. They
met when her life partner cracked a tooth on a
trip to Florida. They called a friend who recommended Harvey.
(01:48):
The friend and Harvey had gone to school together in
New York, and Harvey came in on Christmas Day to
fix that cracked tooth. They quickly became friends. They had
met Wendy and Charlie and also had spent time with Wendy,
Dan and the boys. Her observations of Donna not hateful,
not aggressive, not threatening. When one of them would go
(02:09):
travel overseas. They would talk on WhatsApp and I believe
an app she called Viber. She said she talked to
Donna the day Dan was shot. She got a call
from Donna who was hysterical. Now this comes in later.
She said the memorial service was sad and painful. She
kept up very little with Charlie's case, and in fact,
they invited Donna and Harvey to stay at their house
(02:31):
in Naples for a good portion of Charlie's trial to
watch it because they did not feel safe leaving their apartment.
After the verdict, Donna told her she was considering taking
her own life, also talked about getting away to clear
her head. As far as Lincoln's bar Mitzvah, she said
that Donna was excited about attending that on cross. Are
(02:54):
you familiar with the statement that she could be buried
in the dress she bought for Lincoln's bar Mitzvah? The
witness says no. Was she talking about self harm after
the verdict, Yes, Donna did vent to the witness about Dan.
The witness said Donna did not tell her about the bribe.
They were thinking about if Dan would allow the kids
to move to Florida, but she did talk about strong
(03:15):
arming Dan and said that was so foolish of me.
So one thing I caught onto here. If you remember
last week when the jail house informat testified on that
script that the handwriting expert pretty much said totally Donna's handwriting,
the word foolish was used when referring to Charlie. So
I just thought that word itself was interesting because it's
(03:36):
popped up again. And the witness said that is not
words that Katie Magbanawa would use. Donna eventually told her
about the extortion while they were on a trip to Japan.
She can't remember if it was between the murder and
the first arrest, and the state asks, so you learned
she knew who killed Dan, and the witness says, I
guess I don't know. Was she forced to make payments?
(03:58):
The witness says yes, but she doesn't know much about
the checks. She asked the witness her cell phone number
and she gives the last four, and the state said
Donna would have called her after the verdict when Donna
was thinking about self harm. She said she was in
contact with Donna during the trial, but according to her,
they didn't really discuss it. But the prosecutor says, with
(04:20):
some text messages, refresh your memory. The witness does remember,
after looking at the transcript, that they kept in contact
during the trial. The state you thought the jury got
the verdict wrong and said, I know you are all innocent,
and the witness says, yes, she doesn't think any of
the Adelson's had anything to do with Dan's murder. The
(04:40):
state says, so when Donna was going to Vietnam, she
was going to clear her head in a non extradition country.
The witness said, I didn't know it was non extradition.
They point out there was no return flight, and the
witness said Donna didn't know how long they were going
to stay. Donna texted her to complain. Wendy did not
call them after the verdict and said that Harvar he
was on the floor crying like a baby, so her
(05:03):
and her partner offered to come be with them. She's asked,
what does your partner do. The witness sad owns a
computer consulting business and did real estate with his ex wife,
flipping apartments. She didn't say if that was still current.
The prosecution asked if Donna called her the day Dan
was shot and she said yes, but later one of
the defense experts who came in to testify about cell
(05:26):
phone stuff said there was not a call from Donna
to her friend that she could see on redirect. The
defense said Donna didn't tell her she was writing checks
at the time, and when talking about extortion, Donna never
said she was being extorted, and the defense points out
that she told the witness she would be back for
(05:46):
Lincoln's bar Mitzvah. The next witness Ron Gutterson. This is
the previous witness's life partner. He had a house in Miami,
but in twenty fifteen moved to Naples. He went to
high school with Harvey in New York City, and they
reconnected at their twenty five year high school reunion. In
two thousand and eight or two thousand and nine. He
was in Florida for Christmas and Christmas Eve. He said
(06:09):
he was eating Chinese food and cracked his front tooth.
He was the one that called the friend in New
York who recommended Harvey. He called Harvey, got his tooth fixed,
and they bonded and started traveling a lot after that.
He says they allowed Donna and Harvey to use their
house in Naples because Donna and Harvey were being pestered
by reporters and bloggers who were hounding them, and the
(06:30):
home they had in Naples was gated. He said, Harvey
was devastated, Charlie was convicted. He knew they wanted to
travel to clear their heads and thought it was temporary.
While they were traveling, they asked the witness to help
with their rental properties on cross You said they were
going to make every effort to return for the bar mitzvah.
It would be abnormal if there was an arrest weren't issued,
(06:53):
but the witness said there wasn't one when they left
for their trip. Did Donna ask you to come from
New Jersey to Florida? By the way, way, they are snowbirds,
so they don't stay at that Naples home year round.
The witness said that they were asked to come down
for moral support. The prosecution points out Wendy wasn't answering
and they needed your help. They may need you to
do some work. Is that moral support? He said, no,
(07:15):
just to arrange to help someone with the rental properties
while they were gone. The prosecution points out, in the text,
you said whenever whatever you need we're there. The next
witness Kelsey Gway. She is a senior digital forensics examiner.
She watched Sergeant Corbett's testimony from this trial and also
examined called detail records for Donna, Harvey, and Charlie. She
(07:39):
also looked at Sergeant Corbett's PowerPoint. She was asked to
look at the charts of the frequency analysis from January
twenty fourteen through May twenty seventeen, and she points out
she looked at the records, including the time stamps with seconds,
where Sergeant Corbett did not. She said the data was
messy and disputes the number of unique communication events. She
(08:04):
said the failure to manually go through the records resulted
in an inflated frequency report. As far as the cell
site information for Donna's phone on the day of the murder,
including towers covering for Charlie's phone, Donna's handset never connects
to a tower near Charlie's house, and Charlie and Donna's
handsets did not connect to the same tower. There was more.
(08:27):
It was technical. So on Cross, you disagree with the
mapping of the cell site location from Sergeant Corbett's presentation,
She says, no, it shows a travel analysis of her
travel that night. Prosecution says, so you don't disagree that
her phone was in communication with the cell site in
North Miami at eight thirty five, and the next cell
(08:47):
site location is ten fifty seven, and that was with
Harvey's phone, and she doesn't dispute that. So the next
few questions was just about pinpointing Donna outside Charlie's house,
and there is no pinpointing her hand set. However, the
prosecution points out, okay, so there's no location, but she
texts him outside your house, and the witness says, yes,
(09:09):
you agree. Donna and Charlie have a relationship. Both yours
and Sergeant Corbett's reports show Donna's primary contact is Charlie,
the second ranking is her voicemail routing, and then the
third place is Harvey. Yes, they point out how much
she's getting paid, and just for travel yesterday she got
paid around ten thousand dollars to travel from Portland, Oregon
(09:33):
to Tallahassee, Florida. So back on the stand is miss Cunningham,
the first witness Donna's friend, and she was on her
way to the airport. They went and got her and
brought her back because there was that question of being
asked if Donna called her the day Down was shot
and she was all upset. The defense asks, when you
talk to Donna, you use WhatsApp and Viber on a
(09:55):
regular basis. She says yes, and that was it for
the defense. The state, so you were brought back here
to clarify whether or not you were talking to her
on WhatsApp or Viber when she reached out after Dan
was shot, and the witness says, she called me. The
state asked, so you misspoke earlier or it wasn't clear,
and the witness says, no, she called me. The state
(10:15):
goes through before the murder some phone calls the two
of them had with the cell phone, and the witness
doesn't remember specifically. Also points out a phone call July twentieth,
two days after the murder. The state points out, so
you did talk to her on the phone June twenty third,
July twentieth, and July twenty first, but she is saying
(10:36):
that the day Down was shot, it was on either
WhatsApp or Viber. She said that they were in the
car when this contact was made, and they would often
call through the apps when they were driving, and the
State points out, would it surprise you that WhatsApp did
not offer calls until twenty fifteen? And the witness said,
then it was on Viber And the State said, must
(10:56):
have been viber huh, And that was it for her again.
Witness Richard Chagrin he met Donna and Harvey around twenty
eight years ago when they were part of a gourmet
club with them, so they bonded and took vacations together.
His wife is an estate planning attorney. They talked to
Donna and Harvey the day after Charlie's conviction and went
(11:17):
to their home in Miami. Donna was distraught and Harvey
was in shock. He helped them get their Vietnam visas,
and he mentions that Donna took Susan to show the
dress she had bought for Lincoln's bar Mitzvah. Then he
helped them book their trip. He said the trip was expensive,
so he advised them to only book one way. They
(11:38):
selected the ninety day visa because they didn't know how
long they would be gone. They were being harassed by
media and they were afraid to leave their apartment. His
impression was they were coming back for the bar Mitzvah.
He said they had been in Vietnam before and they
found it very relaxing. While he helped them figure out
the flight, Harvey actually booked it, and the witness says
(12:00):
their attorney told them they had no travel restrictions. He
describes Donna as the ultimate Jewish mom and grandma. She
was very involved with her grandkids since Dan had been
killed and Wendy was working. When he was assisting them,
they were undecided about when they were returning, as far
as should it be a little bit before the bar
(12:20):
Mitzvah or just before on cross The bar Mitzvah was
less than ninety days from when they left. And you
gave a deposition in August of twenty twenty four by
Zoom and you were asked if you made any decisions
about travel or if you were just helping them with
the technology. But today you're saying you're the one who
suggested they fly one way. He said that was part
(12:43):
of the helping, was suggesting, and the State points out
in his deposition he said he was the more computer
savvy one. But today you say you suggested the one
way flight. Yes, when referring to Donna as a typical
Jewish grandma. The state says, do typical Jewish grandma suggests
dressing her grandkids up in Nazi uniforms, and he says,
(13:04):
not to my knowledge. On to redirect, you're more travel savvy. Yes,
so you made suggestions and not decisions. Yes. The next
witness to Rona Khan, she's a mitigation specialist. She explains,
she goes through maternal and paternal sides of the family
and gets mental evaluations ready for the court. She interviewed
(13:24):
inmate Patricia Bird, one of the jailhouse informants, in January
of twenty twenty five, and miss Bird never told her
that Donna would pay her in any way for testifying
for her, and never said that Donna confessed anything. The witness,
by the way, never met with Donna on cross. Why
did you interview her? And she says she was given
(13:46):
a list of people to interview. The prosecution points out
at that point when she was interviewed, the inmate was
not a state's witness at that time. She doesn't know
was the interview recorded? No, why not? The defense did
not ask her to. She's asked, how did you take
accurate notes? And she wrote down everything with a pen
and a paper. The next witness Eddie Varnes. He is
(14:09):
a retired private investigator. He was actually retained by Dan
Rashbaum in May of twenty twenty four. He spoke to
Patricia Byrd August thirtieth, of twenty twenty four. This is
regarding her saying she had information about what Katie told
her when they were incarcerated in twenty twenty one together.
Bird said that Donna never offered compensation and also that
(14:31):
interview was not recorded. He said he told her that
the state would say she was offered something in exchange
for her testimony, but she says Donna didn't. She did
mention she was expecting an offer from the state soon
about her testimony against Donna on Cross You didn't record it?
Could you ever recorded it? He said he was told
not to. Bird said Katie told her after we had
(14:54):
him killed, we tried to get money because we knew
they have money. They offered Dan one million and to
move the kids, so why not kill Dan and extort Charlie.
She mentions that Katie said, I have to get my
kids to college. But the prosecution asked did Katie ever
use the word extortion? And the witness says yes. They
point out he did not do a recorded interview because
(15:17):
they didn't ask on redirect. The defense says, isn't that
what miss Bird said to you? Yes? Now. The next
witness was actually sitting in the back of the courtroom
watching some of the defense case. Ultimately it was an issue.
He is a realtor. His name is Tim Kelly. Very
briefly up November twenty eleven, he was contacted by Dan
(15:38):
to see about showing homes for Donna and Harvey. So
he showed some homes. Donna, Harvey, Dan, Wendy and one
or both of the boys were there. This is before
the separation. He took them once and they did not
buy from him, and that was it. The next witness
Josh Turner from the Leon County Sheriff's office. He reviewed
surveillance from the jail and I've uploaded this specifically to YouTube,
(16:02):
by the way, where you see Donna and Bernhart, one
of the jail informants on the right side of the screen,
and they bring that video in. Bernhart is at a
table with a notebook and also a yellow folder. Donna
walks up and Drena gets Donna to sit down It
shows DNA taking a piece of paper out of her notebook,
showing Donna. The defense asked if something is already written
(16:24):
on the page, and the witness can't tell. Guys, you
can't see nothing in detail of what they have on
that table. By the way, a couple of things I
noticed in this video. Donna is talking a lot, and
also this is not the only time Donna could have
written the script. To me, this is all guesswork and
a really big shot in the dark that this was
the time that Donna wrote that script. They were working
(16:46):
on something, but we don't know what because there's also
no audio on cross When you met with her, she
said she had information about Donna, but also that Donna
was trying to give her testimony to learn for her trial.
The witness alert to investigator Neulan and they met with
Miss Bernhart on December twentieth. She showed up with the
pink notebook. She told them at the meeting. Here is
(17:08):
the script Donna wrote for me to deliver at her trial.
The instructions that Donna gave her was to read it,
put it in her own handwriting, and return the original
back to Donna. And the witness does agree that the
video collaborated what Drina told law enforcement. Bernhart reported this
to him on December eighteenth, so that's when he let
Investigator Neulan know. They did not let her know they
(17:31):
were going to meet with her on the twentieth at
the State Attorney's office. They did consider waiting till after Christmas,
but they brought her over and that day she had
the notebook with Donna's handwriting in it. The state points
out the defense says that both of them wrote in there,
but would you defer to the handwriting expert as to
who actually wrote this. Yes, they show where Bernhart gives
(17:53):
the notebook to Donna, and you see Donna writing in
that notebook for quite some time. They fast forward she's
still writing in it. On redirect. We can't hear the video, right,
we only have to rely on what Miss Bernhardt says. Yes,
she didn't know she was being interviewed on the twentieth,
but when she came, she brought a bunch of materials
with her, and law enforcement collected what Drina said they
(18:16):
should collect, and the witness says, yes, and that was it, y'all.
I'm not trying to be mean, but this may be
one of the worst defense cases I have ever seen
in my life. Pointless, all of it can be disputed
and clear that her friends are going to make her
look good. And of course the big problem for the
defense is the fact that I believe the gel informants
were very credible and the handwriting expert really just took
(18:39):
it home with this is absolutely her handwriting. So we'll
see what day two brings if Donna takes the stand.
Cross your fingers and your toes. It's in the morning
so I can watch some of it and make notes.
The next time I talk to you most likely will
be from Denver, So hope you guys have a good
evening and we will see you soon.
What you know, Alibyers. Welcome to another episode of Pretty
Lies and Alibis. I'm Gigi. It's Tuesday, September second. Hope
you guys had a nice long weekend. We are back
at it day seven of the Donna Adelson trial and
day one of the defense case. Before we jump in,
don't forget to hit subscribe if you haven't already on YouTube.
(00:21):
Liked the video. That is one of the easiest ways
to help my podcast out. And also if you want
notifications of when I post new content or go live,
click that little bell icon. I'm leaving tomorrow for Denver
for Crime Con and I do plan to go live randomly,
so that way, if I do, you know about it
and you can come watch. I know Lieutenant Hermaicio said
(00:42):
he's going to come hang out at the booth for
a bit, so you might catch a glimpse of him,
and who knows who else. So I try not to
put a lot of opinion into the cases that I
covered these days. I've just found I like the groove
of going from A to B and being done. But y'all,
I think Day one of the defence case was a
dumpster fire. I mean, there was absolutely nothing brought forth
(01:06):
by any witnesses that I think helped Donna at all.
And here's the other kicker. I think if Donna takes
the stand, it could be tomorrow. I'm gonna be traveling. Luckily,
I have a later flight out at four thirty, so
if she goes early, I can make notes. But regardless,
I'll be watching on the plane. I will be live
streaming still and I will do an update tomorrow night
(01:27):
from Denver. It just may be late, depending on when
we get in and get settled. Let's jump in. So
the first witness up was a friend of Donna's, Mims Cunningham.
They've known each other since two thousand and nine. They
met when her life partner cracked a tooth on a
trip to Florida. They called a friend who recommended Harvey.
(01:48):
The friend and Harvey had gone to school together in
New York, and Harvey came in on Christmas Day to
fix that cracked tooth. They quickly became friends. They had
met Wendy and Charlie and also had spent time with Wendy,
Dan and the boys. Her observations of Donna not hateful,
not aggressive, not threatening. When one of them would go
(02:09):
travel overseas. They would talk on WhatsApp and I believe
an app she called Viber. She said she talked to
Donna the day Dan was shot. She got a call
from Donna who was hysterical. Now this comes in later.
She said the memorial service was sad and painful. She
kept up very little with Charlie's case, and in fact,
they invited Donna and Harvey to stay at their house
(02:31):
in Naples for a good portion of Charlie's trial to
watch it because they did not feel safe leaving their apartment.
After the verdict, Donna told her she was considering taking
her own life, also talked about getting away to clear
her head. As far as Lincoln's bar Mitzvah, she said
that Donna was excited about attending that on cross. Are
(02:54):
you familiar with the statement that she could be buried
in the dress she bought for Lincoln's bar Mitzvah? The
witness says no. Was she talking about self harm after
the verdict, Yes, Donna did vent to the witness about Dan.
The witness said Donna did not tell her about the bribe.
They were thinking about if Dan would allow the kids
to move to Florida, but she did talk about strong
(03:15):
arming Dan and said that was so foolish of me.
So one thing I caught onto here. If you remember
last week when the jail house informat testified on that
script that the handwriting expert pretty much said totally Donna's handwriting,
the word foolish was used when referring to Charlie. So
I just thought that word itself was interesting because it's
(03:36):
popped up again. And the witness said that is not
words that Katie Magbanawa would use. Donna eventually told her
about the extortion while they were on a trip to Japan.
She can't remember if it was between the murder and
the first arrest, and the state asks, so you learned
she knew who killed Dan, and the witness says, I
guess I don't know. Was she forced to make payments?
(03:58):
The witness says yes, but she doesn't know much about
the checks. She asked the witness her cell phone number
and she gives the last four, and the state said
Donna would have called her after the verdict when Donna
was thinking about self harm. She said she was in
contact with Donna during the trial, but according to her,
they didn't really discuss it. But the prosecutor says, with
(04:20):
some text messages, refresh your memory. The witness does remember,
after looking at the transcript, that they kept in contact
during the trial. The state you thought the jury got
the verdict wrong and said, I know you are all innocent,
and the witness says, yes, she doesn't think any of
the Adelson's had anything to do with Dan's murder. The
(04:40):
state says, so when Donna was going to Vietnam, she
was going to clear her head in a non extradition country.
The witness said, I didn't know it was non extradition.
They point out there was no return flight, and the
witness said Donna didn't know how long they were going
to stay. Donna texted her to complain. Wendy did not
call them after the verdict and said that Harvar he
was on the floor crying like a baby, so her
(05:03):
and her partner offered to come be with them. She's asked,
what does your partner do. The witness sad owns a
computer consulting business and did real estate with his ex wife,
flipping apartments. She didn't say if that was still current.
The prosecution asked if Donna called her the day Dan
was shot and she said yes, but later one of
the defense experts who came in to testify about cell
(05:26):
phone stuff said there was not a call from Donna
to her friend that she could see on redirect. The
defense said Donna didn't tell her she was writing checks
at the time, and when talking about extortion, Donna never
said she was being extorted, and the defense points out
that she told the witness she would be back for
(05:46):
Lincoln's bar Mitzvah. The next witness Ron Gutterson. This is
the previous witness's life partner. He had a house in Miami,
but in twenty fifteen moved to Naples. He went to
high school with Harvey in New York City, and they
reconnected at their twenty five year high school reunion. In
two thousand and eight or two thousand and nine. He
was in Florida for Christmas and Christmas Eve. He said
(06:09):
he was eating Chinese food and cracked his front tooth.
He was the one that called the friend in New
York who recommended Harvey. He called Harvey, got his tooth fixed,
and they bonded and started traveling a lot after that.
He says they allowed Donna and Harvey to use their
house in Naples because Donna and Harvey were being pestered
by reporters and bloggers who were hounding them, and the
(06:30):
home they had in Naples was gated. He said, Harvey
was devastated, Charlie was convicted. He knew they wanted to
travel to clear their heads and thought it was temporary.
While they were traveling, they asked the witness to help
with their rental properties on cross You said they were
going to make every effort to return for the bar mitzvah.
It would be abnormal if there was an arrest weren't issued,
(06:53):
but the witness said there wasn't one when they left
for their trip. Did Donna ask you to come from
New Jersey to Florida? By the way, way, they are snowbirds,
so they don't stay at that Naples home year round.
The witness said that they were asked to come down
for moral support. The prosecution points out Wendy wasn't answering
and they needed your help. They may need you to
do some work. Is that moral support? He said, no,
(07:15):
just to arrange to help someone with the rental properties
while they were gone. The prosecution points out, in the text,
you said whenever whatever you need we're there. The next
witness Kelsey Gway. She is a senior digital forensics examiner.
She watched Sergeant Corbett's testimony from this trial and also
examined called detail records for Donna, Harvey, and Charlie. She
(07:39):
also looked at Sergeant Corbett's PowerPoint. She was asked to
look at the charts of the frequency analysis from January
twenty fourteen through May twenty seventeen, and she points out
she looked at the records, including the time stamps with seconds,
where Sergeant Corbett did not. She said the data was
messy and disputes the number of unique communication events. She
(08:04):
said the failure to manually go through the records resulted
in an inflated frequency report. As far as the cell
site information for Donna's phone on the day of the murder,
including towers covering for Charlie's phone, Donna's handset never connects
to a tower near Charlie's house, and Charlie and Donna's
handsets did not connect to the same tower. There was more.
(08:27):
It was technical. So on Cross, you disagree with the
mapping of the cell site location from Sergeant Corbett's presentation,
She says, no, it shows a travel analysis of her
travel that night. Prosecution says, so you don't disagree that
her phone was in communication with the cell site in
North Miami at eight thirty five, and the next cell
(08:47):
site location is ten fifty seven, and that was with
Harvey's phone, and she doesn't dispute that. So the next
few questions was just about pinpointing Donna outside Charlie's house,
and there is no pinpointing her hand set. However, the
prosecution points out, okay, so there's no location, but she
texts him outside your house, and the witness says, yes,
(09:09):
you agree. Donna and Charlie have a relationship. Both yours
and Sergeant Corbett's reports show Donna's primary contact is Charlie,
the second ranking is her voicemail routing, and then the
third place is Harvey. Yes, they point out how much
she's getting paid, and just for travel yesterday she got
paid around ten thousand dollars to travel from Portland, Oregon
(09:33):
to Tallahassee, Florida. So back on the stand is miss Cunningham,
the first witness Donna's friend, and she was on her
way to the airport. They went and got her and
brought her back because there was that question of being
asked if Donna called her the day Down was shot
and she was all upset. The defense asks, when you
talk to Donna, you use WhatsApp and Viber on a
(09:55):
regular basis. She says yes, and that was it for
the defense. The state, so you were brought back here
to clarify whether or not you were talking to her
on WhatsApp or Viber when she reached out after Dan
was shot, and the witness says, she called me. The
state asked, so you misspoke earlier or it wasn't clear,
and the witness says, no, she called me. The state
(10:15):
goes through before the murder some phone calls the two
of them had with the cell phone, and the witness
doesn't remember specifically. Also points out a phone call July twentieth,
two days after the murder. The state points out, so
you did talk to her on the phone June twenty third,
July twentieth, and July twenty first, but she is saying
(10:36):
that the day Down was shot, it was on either
WhatsApp or Viber. She said that they were in the
car when this contact was made, and they would often
call through the apps when they were driving, and the
State points out, would it surprise you that WhatsApp did
not offer calls until twenty fifteen? And the witness said,
then it was on Viber And the State said, must
(10:56):
have been viber huh, And that was it for her again.
Witness Richard Chagrin he met Donna and Harvey around twenty
eight years ago when they were part of a gourmet
club with them, so they bonded and took vacations together.
His wife is an estate planning attorney. They talked to
Donna and Harvey the day after Charlie's conviction and went
(11:17):
to their home in Miami. Donna was distraught and Harvey
was in shock. He helped them get their Vietnam visas,
and he mentions that Donna took Susan to show the
dress she had bought for Lincoln's bar Mitzvah. Then he
helped them book their trip. He said the trip was expensive,
so he advised them to only book one way. They
(11:38):
selected the ninety day visa because they didn't know how
long they would be gone. They were being harassed by
media and they were afraid to leave their apartment. His
impression was they were coming back for the bar Mitzvah.
He said they had been in Vietnam before and they
found it very relaxing. While he helped them figure out
the flight, Harvey actually booked it, and the witness says
(12:00):
their attorney told them they had no travel restrictions. He
describes Donna as the ultimate Jewish mom and grandma. She
was very involved with her grandkids since Dan had been
killed and Wendy was working. When he was assisting them,
they were undecided about when they were returning, as far
as should it be a little bit before the bar
(12:20):
Mitzvah or just before on cross The bar Mitzvah was
less than ninety days from when they left. And you
gave a deposition in August of twenty twenty four by
Zoom and you were asked if you made any decisions
about travel or if you were just helping them with
the technology. But today you're saying you're the one who
suggested they fly one way. He said that was part
(12:43):
of the helping, was suggesting, and the State points out
in his deposition he said he was the more computer
savvy one. But today you say you suggested the one
way flight. Yes, when referring to Donna as a typical
Jewish grandma. The state says, do typical Jewish grandma suggests
dressing her grandkids up in Nazi uniforms, and he says,
(13:04):
not to my knowledge. On to redirect, you're more travel savvy. Yes,
so you made suggestions and not decisions. Yes. The next
witness to Rona Khan, she's a mitigation specialist. She explains,
she goes through maternal and paternal sides of the family
and gets mental evaluations ready for the court. She interviewed
(13:24):
inmate Patricia Bird, one of the jailhouse informants, in January
of twenty twenty five, and miss Bird never told her
that Donna would pay her in any way for testifying
for her, and never said that Donna confessed anything. The witness,
by the way, never met with Donna on cross. Why
did you interview her? And she says she was given
(13:46):
a list of people to interview. The prosecution points out
at that point when she was interviewed, the inmate was
not a state's witness at that time. She doesn't know
was the interview recorded? No, why not? The defense did
not ask her to. She's asked, how did you take
accurate notes? And she wrote down everything with a pen
and a paper. The next witness Eddie Varnes. He is
(14:09):
a retired private investigator. He was actually retained by Dan
Rashbaum in May of twenty twenty four. He spoke to
Patricia Byrd August thirtieth, of twenty twenty four. This is
regarding her saying she had information about what Katie told
her when they were incarcerated in twenty twenty one together.
Bird said that Donna never offered compensation and also that
(14:31):
interview was not recorded. He said he told her that
the state would say she was offered something in exchange
for her testimony, but she says Donna didn't. She did
mention she was expecting an offer from the state soon
about her testimony against Donna on Cross You didn't record it?
Could you ever recorded it? He said he was told
not to. Bird said Katie told her after we had
(14:54):
him killed, we tried to get money because we knew
they have money. They offered Dan one million and to
move the kids, so why not kill Dan and extort Charlie.
She mentions that Katie said, I have to get my
kids to college. But the prosecution asked did Katie ever
use the word extortion? And the witness says yes. They
point out he did not do a recorded interview because
(15:17):
they didn't ask on redirect. The defense says, isn't that
what miss Bird said to you? Yes? Now. The next
witness was actually sitting in the back of the courtroom
watching some of the defense case. Ultimately it was an issue.
He is a realtor. His name is Tim Kelly. Very
briefly up November twenty eleven, he was contacted by Dan
(15:38):
to see about showing homes for Donna and Harvey. So
he showed some homes. Donna, Harvey, Dan, Wendy and one
or both of the boys were there. This is before
the separation. He took them once and they did not
buy from him, and that was it. The next witness
Josh Turner from the Leon County Sheriff's office. He reviewed
surveillance from the jail and I've uploaded this specifically to YouTube,
(16:02):
by the way, where you see Donna and Bernhart, one
of the jail informants on the right side of the screen,
and they bring that video in. Bernhart is at a
table with a notebook and also a yellow folder. Donna
walks up and Drena gets Donna to sit down It
shows DNA taking a piece of paper out of her notebook,
showing Donna. The defense asked if something is already written
(16:24):
on the page, and the witness can't tell. Guys, you
can't see nothing in detail of what they have on
that table. By the way, a couple of things I
noticed in this video. Donna is talking a lot, and
also this is not the only time Donna could have
written the script. To me, this is all guesswork and
a really big shot in the dark that this was
the time that Donna wrote that script. They were working
(16:46):
on something, but we don't know what because there's also
no audio on cross When you met with her, she
said she had information about Donna, but also that Donna
was trying to give her testimony to learn for her trial.
The witness alert to investigator Neulan and they met with
Miss Bernhart on December twentieth. She showed up with the
pink notebook. She told them at the meeting. Here is
(17:08):
the script Donna wrote for me to deliver at her trial.
The instructions that Donna gave her was to read it,
put it in her own handwriting, and return the original
back to Donna. And the witness does agree that the
video collaborated what Drina told law enforcement. Bernhart reported this
to him on December eighteenth, so that's when he let
Investigator Neulan know. They did not let her know they
(17:31):
were going to meet with her on the twentieth at
the State Attorney's office. They did consider waiting till after Christmas,
but they brought her over and that day she had
the notebook with Donna's handwriting in it. The state points
out the defense says that both of them wrote in there,
but would you defer to the handwriting expert as to
who actually wrote this. Yes, they show where Bernhart gives
(17:53):
the notebook to Donna, and you see Donna writing in
that notebook for quite some time. They fast forward she's
still writing in it. On redirect. We can't hear the video, right,
we only have to rely on what Miss Bernhardt says. Yes,
she didn't know she was being interviewed on the twentieth,
but when she came, she brought a bunch of materials
with her, and law enforcement collected what Drina said they
(18:16):
should collect, and the witness says, yes, and that was it, y'all.
I'm not trying to be mean, but this may be
one of the worst defense cases I have ever seen
in my life. Pointless, all of it can be disputed
and clear that her friends are going to make her
look good. And of course the big problem for the
defense is the fact that I believe the gel informants
were very credible and the handwriting expert really just took
(18:39):
it home with this is absolutely her handwriting. So we'll
see what day two brings if Donna takes the stand.
Cross your fingers and your toes. It's in the morning
so I can watch some of it and make notes.
The next time I talk to you most likely will
be from Denver, So hope you guys have a good
evening and we will see you soon.
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