May 2, 2025 • 39 mins
Jen McCabe spent most of the day on cross exam in a tense back and forth with the defense
The last witness estimated Karen Read's likely blood alcohol level at the time prosecutors claim she hit and killed John O'Keefe
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The last witness estimated Karen Read's likely blood alcohol level at the time prosecutors claim she hit and killed John O'Keefe
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What you know, alibiers. Welcome to another episode of Pretty
Lies and Alibis. I'm Gigi. It is Friday, May second.
Hope you guys have something fun plan for the weekend.
Maybe you're gonna chill kind of like me. But it's here, y'all.
By lunchtime today, I needed a value because this cross
exam was tense, So let's jump right in. The defense
(00:24):
wants to go back to where Jen was watching the
suv out the front door. Jen says she wasn't watching,
but she did see it. He mentions the timeframe that
she last saw the suv passed the flagpole was twelve
forty five, but Jen can't be sure, so he hands
her a transcript from some prior testimony she gave in
(00:45):
June of twenty twenty three. He says, you did send
a text at twelve forty five, and you last saw it,
and you know that because you sent a text. So
he goes on to read from her prior testimony. You said,
I think my husband and I were talking about what
they were doing. I sat back down, and I think
(01:05):
at one point I said hello, at twelve forty two,
where are you? I don't know if that was my
last text or I did one more Yeah, twelve forty five, Hello,
question mark, because they were still there, and the question
that was asked of her back then after she said
this was so the dark SUV was still there at
(01:26):
twelve forty five. Per answer at twelve forty five, back
in real time, the defense asked Jen, do you remember that?
She says, she's been asked a lot of questions about that,
but those words, no, I do remember, saying I think
in there. The defense says, but you said it was
twelve forty five when you last saw the vehicle. Jen says,
(01:48):
I think, I said, I think. So. He hands her
a transcript. They read through that same exchange again and
he repeats, you answered you last saw it at twelve
forty five. Jen again says, I said, I think that's
part of what I said. When you got the four
p fifty three am call, you were asked by Trooper
(02:09):
Prince on February first, twenty twenty two, who you communicated with.
Did you tell Trooper Prince you talked to Karen Reid.
Jen doesn't know exactly what she said because she spoke
to so many officers. So he gives the report you
said you had a conversation with Karen on John's niece's phone,
and at some point you called Julie Albert and Tom Beatty.
(02:32):
She said she didn't talk to Tom because no one
answered the defense. Then you spoke to the grand jury
about the same issue you were consistent with. You spoke
to Karen and then Julie Albert. Objections sustained. Who did
you tell the grand jury you attempted to communicate with?
Jen doesn't know exactly what she said, but she knows
(02:53):
she spoke to Karen. She said, I've been at many
grand juries. I don't remember specific questions or answers, but yes,
Karen called me. What did you tell the grand jury
about who you tried to communicate with? Jen says, if
you want to show me, I know the answer to
the question. But I don't know what I said that day.
I've testified multiple times, I've been interviewed by many officers,
(03:17):
and I can't tell you what I said on what day,
So to pinpoint one thing, it's a bit of a
challenge for me. But what I can tell you what
I remember from that day, which I'm sure is very
similar to what I testified to because it's the same
sweet hands or a transcript what you told the grand jury,
and Jen said, I communicated with Karen and called Julie
(03:40):
Albert and Tom Beatty at the grand jury. You didn't
need to see a report, did you, Jen said. People
ask questions in a different way. If you ask me,
I will always say I talked to Karen and called
Julie and Tom. The answer is always the same, but
some of the words I use may be different. The defense,
that's what you told Trooper Prince as well. But you
(04:03):
did make another call you left out of both of
those statements. At five oh seven am. You called over
to thirty four Fairview. Jen said, if it's in my
phone records, defense, you called Nicole Albert's phone and that
call lasted thirty eight seconds, and you spoke to your sister. No,
so it went to voicemail. She says, I don't know.
(04:23):
I never spoke to her prior to waking her up,
and as days passed, I remembered, but calling my sister
wasn't as important. Defense. You testified at the grand jury
months later, and you also left out you contacted your sister.
Jen said, there's nothing nefarious. Defense says, I didn't say nefarious.
Why would you say that? She said, you're insinuating it.
(04:46):
You're trying to portray something that is nothing. You do
acknowledge you called your sister's cell phone. Were you calling
to alert her of something? No. Later that morning, on
January twenty ninth, at eleven thirty, an interview with Trooper Proctor,
and you testified on direct Karen just showed up at
your house screaming. But you told Proctor when Karen was
(05:08):
on the phone, you told her to come to your house.
No Defense. She said she wanted to search for John.
You told her to come to your house and pick
you up. Jen says, no, that's incorrect. There was never
a plan for Karen to come to my house. He
offers to hand her Proctor's police report, but she says
(05:29):
those are his words or his summary. Defense says, that's
not my question. Would it refresh your recollection to look
Jen said, I know what I told him, I know
what happened. I don't need to see the report. Defense.
During that interview, you told Proctor while driving back to
One Meadows after being picked up by Karen, that's when
(05:49):
you said. Karen told you she broke her tail light.
Jen said, Karen told me in the morning at my house. Defense,
what did you tell Michael Proctor? On jen January twenty ninth,
Jen said that she told me she had a cracked
tail light at my house. She mentioned it again on
the drive back to John's, but when she was on
(06:10):
the phone she said it and that's when my husband
said we shouldn't drive with a cracked tail light. Defense
Proctor didn't write that in his report, so that's incorrect.
Objection sustained. Defense. The drive to Meadows would have been
around five point thirty, well after she backed out and
struck another vehicle at John's. Jen says she doesn't know
(06:32):
about that. He asked if she needs to look at
the notes, do you remember your words? And she says
again the tail light was cracked and missing pieces. The
defense says we can do this all day. Would it
refresh your recollection to look at his notes? And Jen
said no, it wouldn't. Are you telling this jury you
deny saying to Proctor you saw a crack, She said,
(06:54):
I'm not denying it. He asked me multiple questions at
different times, is it possible you said it was cracked
when you talked to him on the twenty ninth, Jen said, yes,
and it have missing pieces. In the days after January
twenty ninth, were you and your family coordinating your version
of events? No? Were you coordinating damage control about the
(07:18):
language you'd use? No? Did you use a group chat
to coordinate your communications with law enforcement and press? She said,
I have a lot of group chats with family and friends,
but you had a group chat specifically including you, your sister, Nicole, Brian,
and Matt McCabe. Yes, so, he brings in the text messages.
(07:40):
The first set is from January twenty ninth of twenty
twenty two. These are between Jen and her sister Nicole.
Seven fifty four pm, Jen, Carrie talked to cops and
kept simple. Seven fifty six Nicole, Okay, try to get
some sleep. Talk tomorrow. Seven fifty seven any update eight o'clock.
(08:00):
We'll get more information tomorrow. Don't want to text about it,
Jen responds, right. Eight fifty nine, Nicole, Okay, text me
in the morning or if you hear anything later. The
hands are more texts. These are group text messages between Jen, Nicole, Brian, Albert,
and Matt and these are from February first. They start
(08:23):
about noon and end around five or five point thirty
that evening. I'm not going to say these names over
and over, so I'll just say to the group. Twelve
fifty two from Brian to the group, Julie said, Channel
four is in Dne. By the way, DNA is a
pizza and a sub shop that's owned by Chris, Albert
and Canton. Twelve twenty five Matt to the group eating,
(08:47):
I assume ask Chris to ask some questions. Tell then
the guy never went in the house. The defense stops
here and asks, what does tell them the guy never
went in the house mean to you? Jen said she
took that as John never came in the house. Defense,
who's the guy? And Jen says John. The defense ask
(09:08):
Chris to ask some questions. Jen said, we were all
looking to find out what happened. So Chris said to
ask some questions. What do they know? The defense says
an indication John never came in the house. And Jen
says John never came in the house. So in response
to tell them the guy never went in the house.
At twelve fifty two, Brian responds exactly. Then Jen responds,
(09:32):
oh my god. Twelve fifty three, Nicole, I assume it's
just to eat. But Brian, if she's there, ask her
what the deal is. Two fifty five Jen to the
group to ask if we've heard if she's in a
mental hospital. Two fifty five Jen to the group, Carrie
is here, going over timeline, Brian, I did hear that, Jen,
(09:58):
and we handed the phone to Carrie. On the phone
was Michael Procter. Two fifty five Jen to the group,
She's telling him, meaning Procter everything. The word everything is
in all caps with exclamation points. Two fifty five Jen
to the group, all the stuff. Four thirty five from
Matt to the group, Yep. If Karen pleads out, it
(10:21):
will end, and if she fights it, it will be
an episode. Nicole liked that previous text. And then from
Matt to the group, Brian's sitting separate four fifty five
from Brian, okay, five point fifteen Jen to the group,
you listening. The defense asked if Carrie was in your
(10:42):
house being interviewed by the Massachusetts State Police, and Jen
says yes, she doesn't know what the phrase you listening
who that was directed specifically to, but her husband and
daughters were there. The defense says, so Matt would be
the only one there to listen, and Jen says yes.
The defense says, there was a phone conversation you were
(11:04):
privy to from earlier in the day between Carrie and Procter.
Back to the text, Jen to the group, cops here again.
Five point thirty one. Matt to the group that girl
could write a book NonStop, and that's referring to Carrie
talking to the police. Five point thirty two. Jen to
the group, I love it. Jen did admit they could
(11:28):
hear different parts of the interview. Jen to the group,
she's telling them everything. And Jen explains to the jury
that when she said the word everything, it was what
happened and Carrie's opinions Nicole good, Matt going to miss
the basketball game at this rate. Jen explains the police
(11:50):
were still in the house and Carrie kept talking. The
defense asked Jen, those were intended to be private, and
Jen said, I handed my phone over. But she's asked,
you didn't think the defense would get the texts? Jen
said nope. Defense says that is a textbook example of
witnesses colluding. The judge tells the jury to disregard the
(12:10):
comment and the question defense, you were colluding with other witnesses.
Were you not? Jen says, I was not. Were you
organizing statements to the police based on what you heard
Carrie saying? No, you were reporting back what you heard
Carrie say to the police. Jen said, I was telling
them she was speaking to the police, and I told
(12:33):
them some of the opinions she was saying. Defense. Your
statements were I love it In regards to Carrie talking
on and on, She says yes, and she also admits
to telling the group chat things Carrie had said Defense
and you were happy with what she said after you
created this timeline with her, Jen said the timeline had
(12:53):
nothing to do with it. She was telling her personal
opinions about Karen. Moving on to the visit to Mike
Lank's house. Did you and Carrie discuss the visit to
his house before you testified in the first trial, She
doesn't remember. Under oath, you said you went from One
Meadows to Lank's residence to drop off one of Carrie's daughters.
(13:14):
You spoke to Lieutenant Tully about this visit on May tenth,
twenty twenty four, before your testimony in the last trial,
and talked about the trip to Lank's house. You indicated
to Lieutenant Tully, you went there with Carrie to pick
up her daughter at the residence, not drop her off.
Jen says, she was with us at John's and we
were dropping her off. Defense, you didn't say dropping off,
(13:38):
so that would be an example of another incorrect report.
Objection sustained. Jen said, I know she was with us
at John's, so if he mixed up pick up and
drop off, we had her with us and dropped her off.
You testified eleven days later about this issue after the
interview with Tully. You said you dropped her off, not
(13:59):
picked her up. Jen said, I know we dropped her off.
Did you talk to Carrie regarding yours or her testimony
about picking up or dropping off? Jen said, we both
know what happened. I have no idea if we did.
The defense says the reason this came up is because
you were confronted with location data that you were at
Lank's house for a period of time. Jen said she
(14:22):
was asked and had completely forgotten because those days were
a blur. But I remember we dropped her daughter off there. Defense.
Do you recall seeing something indicating you were seen there
through GPS location data forms? No? Did he tell you
he had been given GPS data from the defense that
indicates you went there. I don't recall before the May
(14:45):
tenth interview with Tully, had you ever reported you went
to Lank's house on January thirtieth to anyone, Jen said
she had completely forgotten about it. You indicated you sat
outside in Carrie's car for the entire visit and didn't
go in the house except to possibly use the restroom.
She said she has a faint memory of going inside
(15:05):
to use the restroom. Defense said, you said you didn't
see Sergeant Lank. What time of night was it? She
doesn't know, maybe afternoon. So the defense has a ten
page document. The first page is a map dated January thirtieth.
Jen identifies her house on that map, and the date
and time is January thirtieth at twelve thirteen pm. So
(15:28):
let's go through this timeline he is introducing regarding her
activities that day, twelve nineteen pm. The location shows her
at John's house. She left at five twelve five point
twenty one. Location shows Jen at her house. She left
her house at five twenty eight, five thirty six to
(15:49):
five forty shows her at Fairview five forty three to
six twenty eight, which is forty five minutes, shows her
location at Sergeant Lanks, and the defense points out the
driving time from Fairview to Lanx is three to four minutes.
Then at six thirty four, she's back at her house.
You said you sat outside with Carrie and Sergeant Lank's
(16:12):
wife for forty five minutes. I assume the car is
running and it's freezing out. You get out to go
to the restroom at one point, and the three of
you didn't decide let's just go in the house. No,
you said you stopped as a pit stop to drop
off Carrie's daughter, But you drove from your personal residence
to Sergeant lanx residence. Jen says what she remembers is
(16:34):
leaving John's and dropping off Lexi Defense. It wasn't an
errand to drop someone off. You went from your house
to Sergeant Lanx. Jen said, No, we went to drop
off Lexi Defense. She was never at your house. Jen said,
we left Meadows and dropped her off. Defense. You went
into the house and spoke to someone. No, in fact,
(16:58):
you left your house and made a pits stop at
thirty four Fairview before you went to Sergeant Lank's house.
Jen said, they drove by slowly and stopped. Defense, you
went in the house and spoke to someone. No, why
did you go by? She said, Her and Carrie stopped
by to look. Defense for six minutes. Yes, you didn't
(17:20):
speak to Nicole. I don't think so. Is it possible,
Jen said, Like I said, we rode by to look.
You did not go from One Meadows to Lanx. Jen said,
I thought I had, And this isn't refreshing my memory. Defense,
do you remember denying a year ago you ever stopped
by thirty four Fairview? No? Do you want to look
(17:42):
at your prior testimony? Sure? So, she looks, and the
defense says you denied altogether going to thirty four Fairview.
She says, no, I believe the paper says I never
stopped by, but we drove by. Stopping by and driving
by meant something different to me. We drove by, slowly,
looked at the scene. Did you speak to Nicole? No,
(18:03):
we were in the car, me, Carrie and her daughter. Defense,
you did not drive from One Meadows to Sergeant Lank's
house directly. Jen says her memory is that they did,
but she knows what the paper says, but her memory
is different. She said, I was in shock and things
were foggy. He goes through that timeline again, one by
one she doesn't remember, moving on to phone calls with
(18:27):
Trooper Procter. The span of these are from January to
March of twenty twenty two, and you had a number
of calls from January twenty ninth through the thirty first
first page starts with January twenty ninth, at ten fifty
four Am received a call from Procter. The duration of
that was a couple of minutes. Then another at twelve
(18:49):
forty nine. January thirtieth, nine to fifty one, Jen calls Procter.
Nine fifty two. Jen calls Proctor, that duration twenty two minutes.
Same day four forty five Procter to Gen. They talked
for ten minutes January thirty first, eleven to fifty one AM.
(19:09):
Jen to Procter. The duration four minutes. February fourteenth, three
point fifty five PM. Duration of seventeen minutes February seventeenth,
five to nineteen PM, February twenty eighth, twelve forty eight PM,
and four thirty four pm March first, ten sixteen AM
(19:31):
for a duration of ten minutes for fifty one one
minute duration and five oh six pm two minutes, five
fifty twelve minutes March twenty ninth, three twenty seven pm
four minute call the Defense Procter was in your home
January twenty ninth for a formal interview. Brian Albert was
(19:52):
also there. There are fourteen calls with Proctor after that
through the timeline. We just went through the record stop
in Mark, but there's more between May and August. She
said she doesn't know how long it went, but she
knew they started talking again in April of twenty twenty three.
October of twenty twenty three. You were interviewed by Lieutenant
(20:13):
Tully and you began talking to Proctor in summer of
twenty twenty three, just before the October twenty twenty three timeframe.
Jen said that was in regards to something other than
this case, and they never met with Trooper Tully. You
were asked about your relationship with Proctor, and Jen doesn't remember.
(20:34):
He asked if you met with Proctor, and you told
Tolly you had never met with Proctor prior to September
twenty twenty three. She says no, because he was in
my house in January of twenty twenty two. Defense, so again,
that would be an error on his part. Objection sustained,
if you told Tlly you never met Procter before September
(20:57):
twenty twenty three, would that be a truth or untruthful statement?
There was a sidebar when they come back, did you
tell Tolly you had never met Elizabeth or Michael Proctor
prior to twenty twenty three? Jen said, I never met Elizabeth.
The judge tells the defense to move on. They go
(21:17):
into phone calls to John O'Keeffe on January twenty ninth,
on directing Cross, You said, you have multiple calls in
the early morning hours with John between twelve fourteen and
twelve fifty am. Twelve fourteen and thirty one seconds Jen
to John forty nine second duration twelve eighteen and forty
(21:38):
seven seconds. John to Jen thirty six seconds, twelve twenty
nine and forty four seconds. Jen to John seven seconds.
The record said it was answered, but Jen denies speaking
to him and says the last conversation she had with
John was twelve eighteen and the rest of these calls
are missed. But we're going to go through the time
(22:00):
line twelve forty one and ten seconds, twelve forty one
and fifty nine seconds, twelve forty three, twelve forty six,
twelve forty seven, and twelve fifty Those are all calls
Jen made to John that were missed, and the defense says,
miss McCabe, these are seven calls that were missed. She said,
(22:22):
I think some of these calls were done inadvertently. Defense,
you deny making them. She says, I don't deny, I
just don't remember. Defense, you previously gave an explanation for
the seven missed calls nineteen minutes total. That's about every
two minutes you're calling John's phone. What's your explanation? Jen said,
I was going back and forth to the door. I
(22:44):
put my phone in my pocket. But the defense says,
previously you called it what and Jen says a butt dial?
But he says there were seven in less than twenty minutes.
She said, I wasn't paying attention to butt dials. I
was listening to music and talking to fam. The defense
says seven times, according to you, and Jen says, according
(23:05):
to the record. You're aware you're looking at John's phone records.
Jen said, I gave my phone and you could have
seen them on mine. But The defense says, not one
of those butt dials were on your record. She says
she was not aware of that. Defense. You were confronted
about that at the previous trial, and then she remembers
(23:25):
him asking that defense. When you dial somebody by mistake,
it requires several steps. Jen says, I don't know, but
I think it's very common to do butt dials. The
defense says, but the phone requires biometrics or a passcode
to open. Jen says, I could have been texting and
let the phone open and accidentally called John Defense. But
(23:46):
you have to open the phone to make a call.
She says she doesn't know. She would have to look.
How often do you make phone calls? She says every day.
You have to open the phone app from the texting
app to call someone one. Jen says she doesn't know.
I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I hit
the last call since I talked to John Defense. If
(24:07):
you're in the messaging app, you have to do something extra.
You have to open a separate app. Then once the
app is open, you have to choose who to call.
Jen says, that's one way. Yes, if you lock your
phone after a text, you have to open your phone
and engage your phone again. Yes, when you make a
call that's missed, it goes to voicemail. Yes, then you
(24:30):
have to push the end button or the voicemails go
on forever. That's fourteen interactions, make the call and end it.
And you don't remember making a single miss call to John,
she says. No. As you sit here, do you deny
making those calls? She says, I'm not denying it. No.
January twenty ninth, What time did you get home from
(24:52):
She thinks after two o'clock, but she's not positive. She
went upstairs and got on her phone. The defense asked
what app plication did you open? Once she got upstairs.
She thinks it was a sports page, and the defense
asked if it was through Safari. Yes, you opened the
search engine. She says, I know, I googled the sports page. Defense,
(25:15):
you were searching sports. Yes, what time was it that
you did that Google search? She does not know an
exact time, but the defense says two twenty seven am.
She recognizes that time, but doesn't remember specifically from that night. Defense,
You've been asked dozens of times about this, and she
asks which one? He said, I didn't ask you about
(25:38):
that was there a Google search at two twenty seven
am on your phone? She asked to see the records.
She doesn't know what time she was searching the sports
web page. And they go back and forth about this
for a minute. She doesn't remember doing those searches, and
he asks if she is denying, and she said, if
you could show me these Google searches, I would appreciate it.
(26:00):
So he puts it on the screen. You'll agree there
was a search. Os longed to die and cold. Jen
said that was done in the morning, at the request
of miss read. The defense says that was not my question.
Does that record indicate there was a search for that
at some point? Jen says on that paper, the defense says,
(26:21):
is there a search, Yes, you've googled that. Yes, you
are on Google a search at two twenty seven. Jen says,
I don't recall that. The paper says it defense at
some point in the morning you searched it. And she says,
after we found John the defense, you searched two times,
and you said when you searched it was Karen yelling
(26:44):
and shaking you to do that search. Yes, you've discussed
this with Carrie Roberts the day after before her testimony,
Jen said, we don't talk about testimony. You were with
her just before her testimony to the grand jury, and
she verified your story that Karen asked you to search.
Have you talked about Karen asking you to yes? Are
(27:06):
you aware? Carrie testified last week She denied ever having
heard that statement. There is an objection to sustain. They
go to a sidebar. He asked again, have you heard
from any source? Carrie denied hearing that, Jen says no,
So he pulls up dash cam video. He says, you're
aware there's no video demanding a Google search anywhere in
(27:29):
this case. Jen said, I don't know what cameras were aware.
You're aware there's no audio of her asking. You're also
aware there's no one else who heard this. Jen said
it was just her and Karen. Carrie at that point
had gone off somewhere. The defense says, so it's your
word only that Karen asked for that search. Then you
compared and contrasted that timeline. Jen says, no, I told
(27:53):
my version and someone was writing it down for us
my sister. The defense asked if her sister is there,
so he has Jen point her sister out. The defense
says she witnessed this timeline being prepared, and you spoke
to Carrie several times about this case. Jen said, just
about what happened in the aftermath, but not specific details.
(28:15):
You instructed Carrie to say she heard Karen to ask
you to Google. You wanted some witness to back up
your story, Jen says, Karen said it It's that simple.
The defense says you're the only one saying that. Jen says, yes,
and I stand by that one hundred and ten percent.
Defense is the reason you wanted someone to back up
(28:35):
that statement is because that Google search how long to
Die in the Cold points a very uncomfortable finger right
towards you. She said, I never did that search. I
wouldn't need to instruct someone I'm sorry. The defense asks,
has someone told you to apologize when there's an uncomfortable
question that you need to answer? Jen says no, and
(28:57):
that's not an uncomfortable question to answer. He asked her
how many times did you say I'm sorry on cross
and Jen said I didn't count. Defense The Celebrate extraction
determined of the three searches only one was reported as deleted.
Objections sustained, have you ever been confronted with deleting a
Google search on your phone, she says, yes, by you
(29:21):
do you deny it? She says, I deny it. Yes,
six three am, when you, Carrie and Karen approached thirty
four Fairview. Do you recall my client? When the first
officer on scene asked the question about what happened, and
she does not, Do you remember my client? A few
seconds later saying my boyfriend I left him, he never
(29:43):
came home. And he shows dash cam video and he
asked Jen if she heard that. Jen said she heard
a female, but she couldn't tell what she was saying.
The defense plays a few clips of dash cam video.
They're pointing out in each clip that she is the
one talking to lawn enforcement. What was your reaction when
John was put on the gurney? You turned your back,
(30:05):
Jen said, it wasn't on purpose. You immediately recognized this
was an emergency situation. He was a friend of yours,
a police officer dying in his snow. You needed to
get immediate medical attention to him. Minutes and seconds counted.
That's why you called nine one one at six 'zho three.
An officer got there at six' ten on that nine
(30:28):
to one one. Call you said it was a man
passed out in the. Snow you didn't say this is my.
Friend jen said she wanted to give them information she
thought was most. Important the defense, asked did you say his?
Name she, said eventually in the call she. Does you
didn't say he's A Boston police. Officer do you think
that may have sped things? Up And jen, SAYS i
(30:50):
think they come. Equally can you think of any person
on that road who may have had training to Help?
John she, SAYS i can, Now but DID i? Then?
Then my focus was On. John defence at thirty Four,
fairview there's a first, responder she, says, yes my brother in,
Law Brian. Albert and you didn't go in the, house did? You?
(31:11):
No you went? In, Later jen, said our focus was On.
John you knew his window was thirty feet. Away she,
said it was actually off to an. Angle you Knew
john was clinging to, life and you Knew Brian albert
was a first. Responder she, said in that, moment my
only thoughts Were. John did you know there were warm blankets?
(31:32):
Inside and you didn't go? In she, said. NO i
went To john And carrie asked me to take over
compressions and nine one one was on the, way AND
i never thought to go in the. House, defense but
you pulled out your cell. Phone you called nine to one,
one and then you called your. Sister she, said, YES
i was calling to see if they could come, out
BUT i was going over to work on. Him. Defense
(31:53):
you could have walked twenty five feet to scream For
brian to. Help she, said that would have taken me
away From. John you made these calls While john was
clinging to, life And jen, SAID i called to see
if she would. Answer. Defense she didn't, Answer and you
have a situation Where john is laying dead or dying
in your sister's front. Yard there's no lights in the.
(32:13):
House jen, says they were sound, Asleep but you didn't
know they were. Asleep your sister didn't answer the phone.
Twice did you think to go inside to see if
they were? Okay jen, SAID i had no reason to
think they weren't. Okay, defense nobody is coming out With
karen screaming and, yelling And jen Says karen was YELLING
i hit, him AND i have a cracked tail. Light
(32:33):
the defense, says you saw the case right. There she,
SAYS i Know john didn't come into the. HOUSE i
wasn't concerned for anybody's safety in the house. Defense the
reason you didn't go inside is because you knew better
they weren't in. Peril And jen said something happened on
the front lawn and not in the. House. Defense you
weren't worried because you knew what really. Happened she, said
(32:57):
at that, MOMENT i didn't know he was hit by
a vehicle in that there were tail lights all around.
Him so that was it For cross and Then brennan
was up for. Redirect he asks her to describe the
weather when she got To fairview after Leaving. Waterfall she
said snow was falling and it was starting to accumulate
on the street and the, windshields but when they left
(33:19):
it had accumulated more to where her husband had to
clear the. Windshield when they came looking For, john it
was dark and snow was blowing at them as they,
drove so it was hard to see from when you
first Saw john and went into your sister's. Home is
it fair a number of first responders. Arrived did they
have sirens? On she doesn't think. So your sister and
(33:40):
brother in law never came. Out, no did anyone in
the other houses come? Out? No have you been trained
in emergency? Aid she said twenty five or thirty years.
Ago he has their describe her state of mind in the,
moment which is, shocked, scared, confused, anxious wanting to get
help For. John on the dash, cam you spoke to
(34:01):
several law enforcement. Officers didn't a number of people from
law enforcement call you that? Day she? Said proctor and
more after that day for interviews and then for testifying
at the grand jury and then trial last. Year did
you ever refuse to talk to police or? Testify, No he.
Reiterates karen asked her to make the search After john was,
(34:24):
found and she says she did not search for that.
Before Then he asks why go back To, fairview and
she said she really isn't. Sure have you ever inadvertently
called someone on your? Phone? Yes did you purposely make those?
Calls she didn't think. So did you reach out To
john after talking To? Karen, yes because she said he
(34:46):
didn't come. Home he brings in other texts From january twenty,
ninth other than what the defense brought. In brings up
she Called john four point fifty nine To John karen is.
Worried we need to find you five oh, Four please
answer SO i know you're. Okay and these are text
messages with other people later in the day Where jen,
(35:08):
says my mind is, RACING i have that awful feeling
in my, gut Like i'm about to, puke besides seeing
the awful, image trying to wrap my mind around what
happened to. Him another text to someone five point. Fifteen,
Okay i'm trying to call. People i'll be in touch.
Soon she doesn't know who that was. Too there was
a Message jen's sister sent her the Day john was,
(35:29):
found which, SAID i love. You don't beat yourself. Up
you did the best you. Could The commonwealth reiterates that
before that, night she really didn't Know carrie and their
relationship since then isn't. Collusion there was a text From
carrie To, jen this is. Awful another one From jen To.
Carrie every TIME i close my eyes it's ALL i.
(35:50):
SEE i feel Like i'm going to. VOMIT i can't
EVEN i know how close you too. WERE i can't
imagine how hard this is for, you And carrie says
you are also it's. Awful, Jen i'm in. Shock carrie To,
Jen i'm literally having a. WHINE i don't know what
to do to calm. Down jen to CARRY i Know
(36:10):
i'm in. Shock it keeps hitting. Me two thirteen. Pm
carrie To, JEN i don't know even what to. Do
i'm so sorry for us. Both jend To. CARREY i
talked To. Peggy i'm devastated for. Them jen says that
part of her state of mind that day was also
having to tell her. Children another, text she says she's
trying to wrap her mind around what happened To. John
(36:33):
she says nobody told her she couldn't rely on her
family and. Friends she's, asked who asked you to put
together a, timeline she, Says peggy. O'Keefe they show more
texts Of gen To, carrey where she says she's trying
to process that he's really gone and all the events that,
happened and The commonwealth asks trying to recount for people
asking you over the next couple of, days was that
(36:54):
affecting the way you were remembering and thinking about? Things,
yes there is a, recard you said on direct there
were no sirens that, morning but they had their lights. On,
yes you said you never refused to speak to law.
Enforcement but when you were approached by the two officers
who weren't connected To canton or The Massachusetts State, police
(37:17):
you were canted and refused to answer any more. Questions
she said she met with them at some point after
and cleared up. Misconceptions but the defense says you stopped
that first interview and refused to ask. Questions jen, SAID
i stopped and SAID i was going to seek. Counsel
were there any of the text messages you just read
(37:37):
with the state in any of the group chats including, You,
Brian Nicole, albert And matt. McCabe. No the state ends
this portion with a video Of karen in an interview
saying they suggested maybe he was passed out on someone's,
couch which is, weird we're not on a, campus or
he was sleeping with. Someone there were multiple women in
(38:00):
the neighborhood Of Fairview john had been, with and one
of them very recently BEFORE i started Dating. John another,
CLIP i was With jen And carrie in the back,
seat leaning over the front two. SEATS i described this to.
Everyone john looked like a buffalo on the. Prairie it
wasn't a, bush a hydrant or a. Dog it was
(38:21):
a weird shaped lump in the. ELEMENTS i was looking
to find him on the, road and the fear of
WHAT i was going to see what was awaiting me
was as extreme a feeling as the grief of realizing
what happened to. Him there was a third clip that
went to a. Sidebar they didn't bring it. In the
last witness of the day testified About karen's blood alcohol.
(38:44):
Level based on the blood draw A Good samaritan, Hospital
karen's blood alcohol content around the time prosecutors say she
hit O'Keefe at twelve forty five am could have been
between zero point one point four and zero point two.
Eight zero point zero eight is the legal limit In.
(39:04):
Massachusetts and that was it for. Today holy, moly. Y'all
we will see what next week. Brings i'll be live
streaming every, day so come join, us and every Night
i'll be recapping the day's best. TESTIMONY i hope you
guys have a good, weekend and we will see soon
What you know, alibiers. Welcome to another episode of Pretty
Lies and Alibis. I'm Gigi. It is Friday, May second.
Hope you guys have something fun plan for the weekend.
Maybe you're gonna chill kind of like me. But it's here, y'all.
By lunchtime today, I needed a value because this cross
exam was tense, So let's jump right in. The defense
(00:24):
wants to go back to where Jen was watching the
suv out the front door. Jen says she wasn't watching,
but she did see it. He mentions the timeframe that
she last saw the suv passed the flagpole was twelve
forty five, but Jen can't be sure, so he hands
her a transcript from some prior testimony she gave in
(00:45):
June of twenty twenty three. He says, you did send
a text at twelve forty five, and you last saw it,
and you know that because you sent a text. So
he goes on to read from her prior testimony. You said,
I think my husband and I were talking about what
they were doing. I sat back down, and I think
(01:05):
at one point I said hello, at twelve forty two,
where are you? I don't know if that was my
last text or I did one more Yeah, twelve forty five, Hello,
question mark, because they were still there, and the question
that was asked of her back then after she said
this was so the dark SUV was still there at
(01:26):
twelve forty five. Per answer at twelve forty five, back
in real time, the defense asked Jen, do you remember that?
She says, she's been asked a lot of questions about that,
but those words, no, I do remember, saying I think
in there. The defense says, but you said it was
twelve forty five when you last saw the vehicle. Jen says,
(01:48):
I think, I said, I think. So. He hands her
a transcript. They read through that same exchange again and
he repeats, you answered you last saw it at twelve
forty five. Jen again says, I said, I think that's
part of what I said. When you got the four
p fifty three am call, you were asked by Trooper
(02:09):
Prince on February first, twenty twenty two, who you communicated with.
Did you tell Trooper Prince you talked to Karen Reid.
Jen doesn't know exactly what she said because she spoke
to so many officers. So he gives the report you
said you had a conversation with Karen on John's niece's phone,
and at some point you called Julie Albert and Tom Beatty.
(02:32):
She said she didn't talk to Tom because no one
answered the defense. Then you spoke to the grand jury
about the same issue you were consistent with. You spoke
to Karen and then Julie Albert. Objections sustained. Who did
you tell the grand jury you attempted to communicate with?
Jen doesn't know exactly what she said, but she knows
(02:53):
she spoke to Karen. She said, I've been at many
grand juries. I don't remember specific questions or answers, but yes,
Karen called me. What did you tell the grand jury
about who you tried to communicate with? Jen says, if
you want to show me, I know the answer to
the question. But I don't know what I said that day.
I've testified multiple times, I've been interviewed by many officers,
(03:17):
and I can't tell you what I said on what day,
So to pinpoint one thing, it's a bit of a
challenge for me. But what I can tell you what
I remember from that day, which I'm sure is very
similar to what I testified to because it's the same
sweet hands or a transcript what you told the grand jury,
and Jen said, I communicated with Karen and called Julie
(03:40):
Albert and Tom Beatty at the grand jury. You didn't
need to see a report, did you, Jen said. People
ask questions in a different way. If you ask me,
I will always say I talked to Karen and called
Julie and Tom. The answer is always the same, but
some of the words I use may be different. The defense,
that's what you told Trooper Prince as well. But you
(04:03):
did make another call you left out of both of
those statements. At five oh seven am. You called over
to thirty four Fairview. Jen said, if it's in my
phone records, defense, you called Nicole Albert's phone and that
call lasted thirty eight seconds, and you spoke to your sister. No,
so it went to voicemail. She says, I don't know.
(04:23):
I never spoke to her prior to waking her up,
and as days passed, I remembered, but calling my sister
wasn't as important. Defense. You testified at the grand jury
months later, and you also left out you contacted your sister.
Jen said, there's nothing nefarious. Defense says, I didn't say nefarious.
Why would you say that? She said, you're insinuating it.
(04:46):
You're trying to portray something that is nothing. You do
acknowledge you called your sister's cell phone. Were you calling
to alert her of something? No. Later that morning, on
January twenty ninth, at eleven thirty, an interview with Trooper Proctor,
and you testified on direct Karen just showed up at
your house screaming. But you told Proctor when Karen was
(05:08):
on the phone, you told her to come to your house.
No Defense. She said she wanted to search for John.
You told her to come to your house and pick
you up. Jen says, no, that's incorrect. There was never
a plan for Karen to come to my house. He
offers to hand her Proctor's police report, but she says
(05:29):
those are his words or his summary. Defense says, that's
not my question. Would it refresh your recollection to look
Jen said, I know what I told him, I know
what happened. I don't need to see the report. Defense.
During that interview, you told Proctor while driving back to
One Meadows after being picked up by Karen, that's when
(05:49):
you said. Karen told you she broke her tail light.
Jen said, Karen told me in the morning at my house. Defense,
what did you tell Michael Proctor? On jen January twenty ninth,
Jen said that she told me she had a cracked
tail light at my house. She mentioned it again on
the drive back to John's, but when she was on
(06:10):
the phone she said it and that's when my husband
said we shouldn't drive with a cracked tail light. Defense
Proctor didn't write that in his report, so that's incorrect.
Objection sustained. Defense. The drive to Meadows would have been
around five point thirty, well after she backed out and
struck another vehicle at John's. Jen says she doesn't know
(06:32):
about that. He asked if she needs to look at
the notes, do you remember your words? And she says
again the tail light was cracked and missing pieces. The
defense says we can do this all day. Would it
refresh your recollection to look at his notes? And Jen
said no, it wouldn't. Are you telling this jury you
deny saying to Proctor you saw a crack, She said,
(06:54):
I'm not denying it. He asked me multiple questions at
different times, is it possible you said it was cracked
when you talked to him on the twenty ninth, Jen said, yes,
and it have missing pieces. In the days after January
twenty ninth, were you and your family coordinating your version
of events? No? Were you coordinating damage control about the
(07:18):
language you'd use? No? Did you use a group chat
to coordinate your communications with law enforcement and press? She said,
I have a lot of group chats with family and friends,
but you had a group chat specifically including you, your sister, Nicole, Brian,
and Matt McCabe. Yes, so, he brings in the text messages.
(07:40):
The first set is from January twenty ninth of twenty
twenty two. These are between Jen and her sister Nicole.
Seven fifty four pm, Jen, Carrie talked to cops and
kept simple. Seven fifty six Nicole, Okay, try to get
some sleep. Talk tomorrow. Seven fifty seven any update eight o'clock.
(08:00):
We'll get more information tomorrow. Don't want to text about it,
Jen responds, right. Eight fifty nine, Nicole, Okay, text me
in the morning or if you hear anything later. The
hands are more texts. These are group text messages between Jen, Nicole, Brian, Albert,
and Matt and these are from February first. They start
(08:23):
about noon and end around five or five point thirty
that evening. I'm not going to say these names over
and over, so I'll just say to the group. Twelve
fifty two from Brian to the group, Julie said, Channel
four is in Dne. By the way, DNA is a
pizza and a sub shop that's owned by Chris, Albert
and Canton. Twelve twenty five Matt to the group eating,
(08:47):
I assume ask Chris to ask some questions. Tell then
the guy never went in the house. The defense stops
here and asks, what does tell them the guy never
went in the house mean to you? Jen said she
took that as John never came in the house. Defense,
who's the guy? And Jen says John. The defense ask
(09:08):
Chris to ask some questions. Jen said, we were all
looking to find out what happened. So Chris said to
ask some questions. What do they know? The defense says
an indication John never came in the house. And Jen
says John never came in the house. So in response
to tell them the guy never went in the house.
At twelve fifty two, Brian responds exactly. Then Jen responds,
(09:32):
oh my god. Twelve fifty three, Nicole, I assume it's
just to eat. But Brian, if she's there, ask her
what the deal is. Two fifty five Jen to the
group to ask if we've heard if she's in a
mental hospital. Two fifty five Jen to the group, Carrie
is here, going over timeline, Brian, I did hear that, Jen,
(09:58):
and we handed the phone to Carrie. On the phone
was Michael Procter. Two fifty five Jen to the group,
She's telling him, meaning Procter everything. The word everything is
in all caps with exclamation points. Two fifty five Jen
to the group, all the stuff. Four thirty five from
Matt to the group, Yep. If Karen pleads out, it
(10:21):
will end, and if she fights it, it will be
an episode. Nicole liked that previous text. And then from
Matt to the group, Brian's sitting separate four fifty five
from Brian, okay, five point fifteen Jen to the group,
you listening. The defense asked if Carrie was in your
(10:42):
house being interviewed by the Massachusetts State Police, and Jen
says yes, she doesn't know what the phrase you listening
who that was directed specifically to, but her husband and
daughters were there. The defense says, so Matt would be
the only one there to listen, and Jen says yes.
The defense says, there was a phone conversation you were
(11:04):
privy to from earlier in the day between Carrie and Procter.
Back to the text, Jen to the group, cops here again.
Five point thirty one. Matt to the group that girl
could write a book NonStop, and that's referring to Carrie
talking to the police. Five point thirty two. Jen to
the group, I love it. Jen did admit they could
(11:28):
hear different parts of the interview. Jen to the group,
she's telling them everything. And Jen explains to the jury
that when she said the word everything, it was what
happened and Carrie's opinions Nicole good, Matt going to miss
the basketball game at this rate. Jen explains the police
(11:50):
were still in the house and Carrie kept talking. The
defense asked Jen, those were intended to be private, and
Jen said, I handed my phone over. But she's asked,
you didn't think the defense would get the texts? Jen
said nope. Defense says that is a textbook example of
witnesses colluding. The judge tells the jury to disregard the
(12:10):
comment and the question defense, you were colluding with other witnesses.
Were you not? Jen says, I was not. Were you
organizing statements to the police based on what you heard
Carrie saying? No, you were reporting back what you heard
Carrie say to the police. Jen said, I was telling
them she was speaking to the police, and I told
(12:33):
them some of the opinions she was saying. Defense. Your
statements were I love it In regards to Carrie talking
on and on, She says yes, and she also admits
to telling the group chat things Carrie had said Defense
and you were happy with what she said after you
created this timeline with her, Jen said the timeline had
(12:53):
nothing to do with it. She was telling her personal
opinions about Karen. Moving on to the visit to Mike
Lank's house. Did you and Carrie discuss the visit to
his house before you testified in the first trial, She
doesn't remember. Under oath, you said you went from One
Meadows to Lank's residence to drop off one of Carrie's daughters.
(13:14):
You spoke to Lieutenant Tully about this visit on May tenth,
twenty twenty four, before your testimony in the last trial,
and talked about the trip to Lank's house. You indicated
to Lieutenant Tully, you went there with Carrie to pick
up her daughter at the residence, not drop her off.
Jen says, she was with us at John's and we
were dropping her off. Defense, you didn't say dropping off,
(13:38):
so that would be an example of another incorrect report.
Objection sustained. Jen said, I know she was with us
at John's, so if he mixed up pick up and
drop off, we had her with us and dropped her off.
You testified eleven days later about this issue after the
interview with Tully. You said you dropped her off, not
(13:59):
picked her up. Jen said, I know we dropped her off.
Did you talk to Carrie regarding yours or her testimony
about picking up or dropping off? Jen said, we both
know what happened. I have no idea if we did.
The defense says the reason this came up is because
you were confronted with location data that you were at
Lank's house for a period of time. Jen said she
(14:22):
was asked and had completely forgotten because those days were
a blur. But I remember we dropped her daughter off there. Defense.
Do you recall seeing something indicating you were seen there
through GPS location data forms? No? Did he tell you
he had been given GPS data from the defense that
indicates you went there. I don't recall before the May
(14:45):
tenth interview with Tully, had you ever reported you went
to Lank's house on January thirtieth to anyone, Jen said
she had completely forgotten about it. You indicated you sat
outside in Carrie's car for the entire visit and didn't
go in the house except to possibly use the restroom.
She said she has a faint memory of going inside
(15:05):
to use the restroom. Defense said, you said you didn't
see Sergeant Lank. What time of night was it? She
doesn't know, maybe afternoon. So the defense has a ten
page document. The first page is a map dated January thirtieth.
Jen identifies her house on that map, and the date
and time is January thirtieth at twelve thirteen pm. So
(15:28):
let's go through this timeline he is introducing regarding her
activities that day, twelve nineteen pm. The location shows her
at John's house. She left at five twelve five point
twenty one. Location shows Jen at her house. She left
her house at five twenty eight, five thirty six to
(15:49):
five forty shows her at Fairview five forty three to
six twenty eight, which is forty five minutes, shows her
location at Sergeant Lanks, and the defense points out the
driving time from Fairview to Lanx is three to four minutes.
Then at six thirty four, she's back at her house.
You said you sat outside with Carrie and Sergeant Lank's
(16:12):
wife for forty five minutes. I assume the car is
running and it's freezing out. You get out to go
to the restroom at one point, and the three of
you didn't decide let's just go in the house. No,
you said you stopped as a pit stop to drop
off Carrie's daughter, But you drove from your personal residence
to Sergeant lanx residence. Jen says what she remembers is
(16:34):
leaving John's and dropping off Lexi Defense. It wasn't an
errand to drop someone off. You went from your house
to Sergeant Lanx. Jen said, No, we went to drop
off Lexi Defense. She was never at your house. Jen said,
we left Meadows and dropped her off. Defense. You went
into the house and spoke to someone. No, in fact,
(16:58):
you left your house and made a pits stop at
thirty four Fairview before you went to Sergeant Lank's house.
Jen said, they drove by slowly and stopped. Defense, you
went in the house and spoke to someone. No, why
did you go by? She said, Her and Carrie stopped
by to look. Defense for six minutes. Yes, you didn't
(17:20):
speak to Nicole. I don't think so. Is it possible,
Jen said, Like I said, we rode by to look.
You did not go from One Meadows to Lanx. Jen said,
I thought I had, And this isn't refreshing my memory. Defense,
do you remember denying a year ago you ever stopped
by thirty four Fairview? No? Do you want to look
(17:42):
at your prior testimony? Sure? So, she looks, and the
defense says you denied altogether going to thirty four Fairview.
She says, no, I believe the paper says I never
stopped by, but we drove by. Stopping by and driving
by meant something different to me. We drove by, slowly,
looked at the scene. Did you speak to Nicole? No,
(18:03):
we were in the car, me, Carrie and her daughter. Defense,
you did not drive from One Meadows to Sergeant Lank's
house directly. Jen says her memory is that they did,
but she knows what the paper says, but her memory
is different. She said, I was in shock and things
were foggy. He goes through that timeline again, one by
one she doesn't remember, moving on to phone calls with
(18:27):
Trooper Procter. The span of these are from January to
March of twenty twenty two, and you had a number
of calls from January twenty ninth through the thirty first
first page starts with January twenty ninth, at ten fifty
four Am received a call from Procter. The duration of
that was a couple of minutes. Then another at twelve
(18:49):
forty nine. January thirtieth, nine to fifty one, Jen calls Procter.
Nine fifty two. Jen calls Proctor, that duration twenty two minutes.
Same day four forty five Procter to Gen. They talked
for ten minutes January thirty first, eleven to fifty one AM.
(19:09):
Jen to Procter. The duration four minutes. February fourteenth, three
point fifty five PM. Duration of seventeen minutes February seventeenth,
five to nineteen PM, February twenty eighth, twelve forty eight PM,
and four thirty four pm March first, ten sixteen AM
(19:31):
for a duration of ten minutes for fifty one one
minute duration and five oh six pm two minutes, five
fifty twelve minutes March twenty ninth, three twenty seven pm
four minute call the Defense Procter was in your home
January twenty ninth for a formal interview. Brian Albert was
(19:52):
also there. There are fourteen calls with Proctor after that
through the timeline. We just went through the record stop
in Mark, but there's more between May and August. She
said she doesn't know how long it went, but she
knew they started talking again in April of twenty twenty three.
October of twenty twenty three. You were interviewed by Lieutenant
(20:13):
Tully and you began talking to Proctor in summer of
twenty twenty three, just before the October twenty twenty three timeframe.
Jen said that was in regards to something other than
this case, and they never met with Trooper Tully. You
were asked about your relationship with Proctor, and Jen doesn't remember.
(20:34):
He asked if you met with Proctor, and you told
Tolly you had never met with Proctor prior to September
twenty twenty three. She says no, because he was in
my house in January of twenty twenty two. Defense, so again,
that would be an error on his part. Objection sustained,
if you told Tlly you never met Procter before September
(20:57):
twenty twenty three, would that be a truth or untruthful statement?
There was a sidebar when they come back, did you
tell Tolly you had never met Elizabeth or Michael Proctor
prior to twenty twenty three? Jen said, I never met Elizabeth.
The judge tells the defense to move on. They go
(21:17):
into phone calls to John O'Keeffe on January twenty ninth,
on directing Cross, You said, you have multiple calls in
the early morning hours with John between twelve fourteen and
twelve fifty am. Twelve fourteen and thirty one seconds Jen
to John forty nine second duration twelve eighteen and forty
(21:38):
seven seconds. John to Jen thirty six seconds, twelve twenty
nine and forty four seconds. Jen to John seven seconds.
The record said it was answered, but Jen denies speaking
to him and says the last conversation she had with
John was twelve eighteen and the rest of these calls
are missed. But we're going to go through the time
(22:00):
line twelve forty one and ten seconds, twelve forty one
and fifty nine seconds, twelve forty three, twelve forty six,
twelve forty seven, and twelve fifty Those are all calls
Jen made to John that were missed, and the defense says,
miss McCabe, these are seven calls that were missed. She said,
(22:22):
I think some of these calls were done inadvertently. Defense,
you deny making them. She says, I don't deny, I
just don't remember. Defense, you previously gave an explanation for
the seven missed calls nineteen minutes total. That's about every
two minutes you're calling John's phone. What's your explanation? Jen said,
I was going back and forth to the door. I
(22:44):
put my phone in my pocket. But the defense says,
previously you called it what and Jen says a butt dial?
But he says there were seven in less than twenty minutes.
She said, I wasn't paying attention to butt dials. I
was listening to music and talking to fam. The defense
says seven times, according to you, and Jen says, according
(23:05):
to the record. You're aware you're looking at John's phone records.
Jen said, I gave my phone and you could have
seen them on mine. But The defense says, not one
of those butt dials were on your record. She says
she was not aware of that. Defense. You were confronted
about that at the previous trial, and then she remembers
(23:25):
him asking that defense. When you dial somebody by mistake,
it requires several steps. Jen says, I don't know, but
I think it's very common to do butt dials. The
defense says, but the phone requires biometrics or a passcode
to open. Jen says, I could have been texting and
let the phone open and accidentally called John Defense. But
(23:46):
you have to open the phone to make a call.
She says she doesn't know. She would have to look.
How often do you make phone calls? She says every day.
You have to open the phone app from the texting
app to call someone one. Jen says she doesn't know.
I don't know what to tell you. Maybe I hit
the last call since I talked to John Defense. If
(24:07):
you're in the messaging app, you have to do something extra.
You have to open a separate app. Then once the
app is open, you have to choose who to call.
Jen says, that's one way. Yes, if you lock your
phone after a text, you have to open your phone
and engage your phone again. Yes, when you make a
call that's missed, it goes to voicemail. Yes, then you
(24:30):
have to push the end button or the voicemails go
on forever. That's fourteen interactions, make the call and end it.
And you don't remember making a single miss call to John,
she says. No. As you sit here, do you deny
making those calls? She says, I'm not denying it. No.
January twenty ninth, What time did you get home from
(24:52):
She thinks after two o'clock, but she's not positive. She
went upstairs and got on her phone. The defense asked
what app plication did you open? Once she got upstairs.
She thinks it was a sports page, and the defense
asked if it was through Safari. Yes, you opened the
search engine. She says, I know, I googled the sports page. Defense,
(25:15):
you were searching sports. Yes, what time was it that
you did that Google search? She does not know an
exact time, but the defense says two twenty seven am.
She recognizes that time, but doesn't remember specifically from that night. Defense,
You've been asked dozens of times about this, and she
asks which one? He said, I didn't ask you about
(25:38):
that was there a Google search at two twenty seven
am on your phone? She asked to see the records.
She doesn't know what time she was searching the sports
web page. And they go back and forth about this
for a minute. She doesn't remember doing those searches, and
he asks if she is denying, and she said, if
you could show me these Google searches, I would appreciate it.
(26:00):
So he puts it on the screen. You'll agree there
was a search. Os longed to die and cold. Jen
said that was done in the morning, at the request
of miss read. The defense says that was not my question.
Does that record indicate there was a search for that
at some point? Jen says on that paper, the defense says,
(26:21):
is there a search, Yes, you've googled that. Yes, you
are on Google a search at two twenty seven. Jen says,
I don't recall that. The paper says it defense at
some point in the morning you searched it. And she says,
after we found John the defense, you searched two times,
and you said when you searched it was Karen yelling
(26:44):
and shaking you to do that search. Yes, you've discussed
this with Carrie Roberts the day after before her testimony,
Jen said, we don't talk about testimony. You were with
her just before her testimony to the grand jury, and
she verified your story that Karen asked you to search.
Have you talked about Karen asking you to yes? Are
(27:06):
you aware? Carrie testified last week She denied ever having
heard that statement. There is an objection to sustain. They
go to a sidebar. He asked again, have you heard
from any source? Carrie denied hearing that, Jen says no,
So he pulls up dash cam video. He says, you're
aware there's no video demanding a Google search anywhere in
(27:29):
this case. Jen said, I don't know what cameras were aware.
You're aware there's no audio of her asking. You're also
aware there's no one else who heard this. Jen said
it was just her and Karen. Carrie at that point
had gone off somewhere. The defense says, so it's your
word only that Karen asked for that search. Then you
compared and contrasted that timeline. Jen says, no, I told
(27:53):
my version and someone was writing it down for us
my sister. The defense asked if her sister is there,
so he has Jen point her sister out. The defense
says she witnessed this timeline being prepared, and you spoke
to Carrie several times about this case. Jen said, just
about what happened in the aftermath, but not specific details.
(28:15):
You instructed Carrie to say she heard Karen to ask
you to Google. You wanted some witness to back up
your story, Jen says, Karen said it It's that simple.
The defense says you're the only one saying that. Jen says, yes,
and I stand by that one hundred and ten percent.
Defense is the reason you wanted someone to back up
(28:35):
that statement is because that Google search how long to
Die in the Cold points a very uncomfortable finger right
towards you. She said, I never did that search. I
wouldn't need to instruct someone I'm sorry. The defense asks,
has someone told you to apologize when there's an uncomfortable
question that you need to answer? Jen says no, and
(28:57):
that's not an uncomfortable question to answer. He asked her
how many times did you say I'm sorry on cross
and Jen said I didn't count. Defense The Celebrate extraction
determined of the three searches only one was reported as deleted.
Objections sustained, have you ever been confronted with deleting a
Google search on your phone, she says, yes, by you
(29:21):
do you deny it? She says, I deny it. Yes,
six three am, when you, Carrie and Karen approached thirty
four Fairview. Do you recall my client? When the first
officer on scene asked the question about what happened, and
she does not, Do you remember my client? A few
seconds later saying my boyfriend I left him, he never
(29:43):
came home. And he shows dash cam video and he
asked Jen if she heard that. Jen said she heard
a female, but she couldn't tell what she was saying.
The defense plays a few clips of dash cam video.
They're pointing out in each clip that she is the
one talking to lawn enforcement. What was your reaction when
John was put on the gurney? You turned your back,
(30:05):
Jen said, it wasn't on purpose. You immediately recognized this
was an emergency situation. He was a friend of yours,
a police officer dying in his snow. You needed to
get immediate medical attention to him. Minutes and seconds counted.
That's why you called nine one one at six 'zho three.
An officer got there at six' ten on that nine
(30:28):
to one one. Call you said it was a man
passed out in the. Snow you didn't say this is my.
Friend jen said she wanted to give them information she
thought was most. Important the defense, asked did you say his?
Name she, said eventually in the call she. Does you
didn't say he's A Boston police. Officer do you think
that may have sped things? Up And jen, SAYS i
(30:50):
think they come. Equally can you think of any person
on that road who may have had training to Help?
John she, SAYS i can, Now but DID i? Then?
Then my focus was On. John defence at thirty Four,
fairview there's a first, responder she, says, yes my brother in,
Law Brian. Albert and you didn't go in the, house did? You?
(31:11):
No you went? In, Later jen, said our focus was On.
John you knew his window was thirty feet. Away she,
said it was actually off to an. Angle you Knew
john was clinging to, life and you Knew Brian albert
was a first. Responder she, said in that, moment my
only thoughts Were. John did you know there were warm blankets?
(31:32):
Inside and you didn't go? In she, said. NO i
went To john And carrie asked me to take over
compressions and nine one one was on the, way AND
i never thought to go in the. House, defense but
you pulled out your cell. Phone you called nine to one,
one and then you called your. Sister she, said, YES
i was calling to see if they could come, out
BUT i was going over to work on. Him. Defense
(31:53):
you could have walked twenty five feet to scream For
brian to. Help she, said that would have taken me
away From. John you made these calls While john was
clinging to, life And jen, SAID i called to see
if she would. Answer. Defense she didn't, Answer and you
have a situation Where john is laying dead or dying
in your sister's front. Yard there's no lights in the.
(32:13):
House jen, says they were sound, Asleep but you didn't
know they were. Asleep your sister didn't answer the phone.
Twice did you think to go inside to see if
they were? Okay jen, SAID i had no reason to
think they weren't. Okay, defense nobody is coming out With
karen screaming and, yelling And jen Says karen was YELLING
i hit, him AND i have a cracked tail. Light
(32:33):
the defense, says you saw the case right. There she,
SAYS i Know john didn't come into the. HOUSE i
wasn't concerned for anybody's safety in the house. Defense the
reason you didn't go inside is because you knew better
they weren't in. Peril And jen said something happened on
the front lawn and not in the. House. Defense you
weren't worried because you knew what really. Happened she, said
(32:57):
at that, MOMENT i didn't know he was hit by
a vehicle in that there were tail lights all around.
Him so that was it For cross and Then brennan
was up for. Redirect he asks her to describe the
weather when she got To fairview after Leaving. Waterfall she
said snow was falling and it was starting to accumulate
on the street and the, windshields but when they left
(33:19):
it had accumulated more to where her husband had to
clear the. Windshield when they came looking For, john it
was dark and snow was blowing at them as they,
drove so it was hard to see from when you
first Saw john and went into your sister's. Home is
it fair a number of first responders. Arrived did they
have sirens? On she doesn't think. So your sister and
(33:40):
brother in law never came. Out, no did anyone in
the other houses come? Out? No have you been trained
in emergency? Aid she said twenty five or thirty years.
Ago he has their describe her state of mind in the,
moment which is, shocked, scared, confused, anxious wanting to get
help For. John on the dash, cam you spoke to
(34:01):
several law enforcement. Officers didn't a number of people from
law enforcement call you that? Day she? Said proctor and
more after that day for interviews and then for testifying
at the grand jury and then trial last. Year did
you ever refuse to talk to police or? Testify, No he.
Reiterates karen asked her to make the search After john was,
(34:24):
found and she says she did not search for that.
Before Then he asks why go back To, fairview and
she said she really isn't. Sure have you ever inadvertently
called someone on your? Phone? Yes did you purposely make those?
Calls she didn't think. So did you reach out To
john after talking To? Karen, yes because she said he
(34:46):
didn't come. Home he brings in other texts From january twenty,
ninth other than what the defense brought. In brings up
she Called john four point fifty nine To John karen is.
Worried we need to find you five oh, Four please
answer SO i know you're. Okay and these are text
messages with other people later in the day Where jen,
(35:08):
says my mind is, RACING i have that awful feeling
in my, gut Like i'm about to, puke besides seeing
the awful, image trying to wrap my mind around what
happened to. Him another text to someone five point. Fifteen,
Okay i'm trying to call. People i'll be in touch.
Soon she doesn't know who that was. Too there was
a Message jen's sister sent her the Day john was,
(35:29):
found which, SAID i love. You don't beat yourself. Up
you did the best you. Could The commonwealth reiterates that
before that, night she really didn't Know carrie and their
relationship since then isn't. Collusion there was a text From
carrie To, jen this is. Awful another one From jen To.
Carrie every TIME i close my eyes it's ALL i.
(35:50):
SEE i feel Like i'm going to. VOMIT i can't
EVEN i know how close you too. WERE i can't
imagine how hard this is for, you And carrie says
you are also it's. Awful, Jen i'm in. Shock carrie To,
Jen i'm literally having a. WHINE i don't know what
to do to calm. Down jen to CARRY i Know
(36:10):
i'm in. Shock it keeps hitting. Me two thirteen. Pm
carrie To, JEN i don't know even what to. Do
i'm so sorry for us. Both jend To. CARREY i
talked To. Peggy i'm devastated for. Them jen says that
part of her state of mind that day was also
having to tell her. Children another, text she says she's
trying to wrap her mind around what happened To. John
(36:33):
she says nobody told her she couldn't rely on her
family and. Friends she's, asked who asked you to put
together a, timeline she, Says peggy. O'Keefe they show more
texts Of gen To, carrey where she says she's trying
to process that he's really gone and all the events that,
happened and The commonwealth asks trying to recount for people
asking you over the next couple of, days was that
(36:54):
affecting the way you were remembering and thinking about? Things,
yes there is a, recard you said on direct there
were no sirens that, morning but they had their lights. On,
yes you said you never refused to speak to law.
Enforcement but when you were approached by the two officers
who weren't connected To canton or The Massachusetts State, police
(37:17):
you were canted and refused to answer any more. Questions
she said she met with them at some point after
and cleared up. Misconceptions but the defense says you stopped
that first interview and refused to ask. Questions jen, SAID
i stopped and SAID i was going to seek. Counsel
were there any of the text messages you just read
(37:37):
with the state in any of the group chats including, You,
Brian Nicole, albert And matt. McCabe. No the state ends
this portion with a video Of karen in an interview
saying they suggested maybe he was passed out on someone's,
couch which is, weird we're not on a, campus or
he was sleeping with. Someone there were multiple women in
(38:00):
the neighborhood Of Fairview john had been, with and one
of them very recently BEFORE i started Dating. John another,
CLIP i was With jen And carrie in the back,
seat leaning over the front two. SEATS i described this to.
Everyone john looked like a buffalo on the. Prairie it
wasn't a, bush a hydrant or a. Dog it was
(38:21):
a weird shaped lump in the. ELEMENTS i was looking
to find him on the, road and the fear of
WHAT i was going to see what was awaiting me
was as extreme a feeling as the grief of realizing
what happened to. Him there was a third clip that
went to a. Sidebar they didn't bring it. In the
last witness of the day testified About karen's blood alcohol.
(38:44):
Level based on the blood draw A Good samaritan, Hospital
karen's blood alcohol content around the time prosecutors say she
hit O'Keefe at twelve forty five am could have been
between zero point one point four and zero point two.
Eight zero point zero eight is the legal limit In.
(39:04):
Massachusetts and that was it for. Today holy, moly. Y'all
we will see what next week. Brings i'll be live
streaming every, day so come join, us and every Night
i'll be recapping the day's best. TESTIMONY i hope you
guys have a good, weekend and we will see soon
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