P&S ModCast 424 -Author Larry Correia

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And it is live amazing. It's a Christmas miracle. I
am posting it to Twitter. Cool.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I don't use Twitter that much.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
I should.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
I have anything I write winds up getting moved over
or gets shared. But I really don't do much.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
I don't don't do much on it.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I still don't understand it entirely.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
I used it a lot once Elon bought it, and
I could get because I could get away with fighting
with people and assaulting them online and without getting banned
for a month. Yeah. But Facebook's loosened up a lot lately. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, And so I have a reputation of especially when
it comes to the gun stuff. Gun stuff that I'm
passionate about that I know, Yeah, we're gonna have We're
gonna have these conversations and if you say something that's
just out of left field, let's talk about this. And
I've I've toned it down a lot. But it's nice

(00:57):
that Facebook. Something's happened in Facebook where it's I'm not
at I don't feel like I'm there's the potential of
me being banned every single minute where oh.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
We figured it up one time and I had had
sixteen one month long bands. Yeah, previous three years.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes, and when you look into it, it's like, wait
a minute, I'm not violating any any of the any
of the not contracts, any of the rules or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
How is this happening. My wife actually pointed out to
me that I would go pick fights on purpose and
be meaner than usual. That way, when I had a
deadline coming up. That way, I would get blocked off
the Internet and I couldn't be tempted to spend a
bunch of time arguing with morons because I was I
was currently banned, and that worked pretty well. Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Nice, that's genius. And so for me, what I would
do is I would go into the what would I
call the lower those common denominator gun groups.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Oh well, we.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Usually call him low information or Yeah, I go into
those gen pop gem pop going to those gem pop
groups to figure out, Okay, what article do I want
to write next?

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Whatever they have ron this is what we're going to
talk about. Yeah, Mine today was there was a viral
video of a of a cop and there's obviously like
a training thing and he was shooting through a barricade
and it was a slanted barricade window and the guy
was way too short, and so he tries to get
it up and he's got an eotech and he's trying
to get it up angled and he and he doesn't.

(02:38):
The guy's form was terrible, right, but he shoots that
comes back to bobsman the nose and there's hundreds of
people just talking all this trash and there's a ninety
nine point nine percent chance and none of those guys
have ever shot through a barricade before. Yeah, you know.
And I was like, guys, this is how people learn. Yeah,
I mean, yeah, you get bumped in the nose. That's

(03:00):
how you know not to do it anymore.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, well I did. Similarly, I posted a picture. I
did a vehicle tactics class where officers were shooting around
vehicles and one officer, a swat guy, was standing driver's
side behind the behind the trunk, let off a couple
of rounds with his AR and forgot about offset and

(03:23):
he owned it. Oh man, he owned it. He's like,
oh shit, that's me. And so I took a picture
and that's and shared it. This is an educational moment.
Shared it with the class. Hey guys, this happens, this
is real, and fortunately we're in training and these are
the times for these kinds of things to happen. But
some of the comments from people just like, have you
done this before? Have you tried this? There's a lot

(03:44):
of things going on. It only gets worse when we
had more stress.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
I paid my stupid tax with offset once. I used
to have a really nice range bag, this really like
big heavy duty range bag, and it was perfect. It
was like for my size, there's the perfect height to
go prone and lay a rifle over it for like zeroing. Right,
It's just there's like a big, beautiful sand bag, you know,
a great range bag, very expensive. And I was zeroing

(04:08):
a whole bunch of rifles one time because my son
is a compulsive ar builder, and uh, you know, I
shop the Black Friday sales, get cheap parts, turn them
over by teenager, and then I would buy you know,
cheap optics. And so one day I'm like zero in
like six guns, and so I'm out there prone and
I'm zeroing, and I'm switching through guns. The last gun

(04:30):
is a Celtech RBD bullpup.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
So all the other guns have you know, fourteen and
a half sixteen inch barrels, right, and they're perfect size
and I'm just zeroing zeros ring and so I go
prone with this bullpup and you can see where this
is going, right, and so the I and and I
get and and you know, you got your offset, and
I was like, okay, I'm ready to, like you squeeze
it off. And all of a sudden, there's all this

(04:54):
stuffing in the air and like little flakes of condura
cardura flying down. And so I blew a hole right
through the edge of my range bag when I smitshed
it down and just tore the zipper hole, you know,
the zipper right off and ruined my perfectly good range bag,
paid my stupid tacks.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
It happens, and we all have been there, We've all
done it, and they're great out they're also great experiences.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Every good shooter has been humble. It's funny because like
everybody I know who's like a really good shooter, I
mean outside of like if you're at match there's the
super squad guys will be talking some trash to each other,
but for the most part, the guys that are just
you know, good shooters are usually really helpful to less
experience shooters because we've all been there. Man, we've all
done the dumb crap.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, except for Dave Simmerly. Are you an hotel?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
I am?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, Well, I guess I'll do the official start. Hey everyone,
mat Land for here with Private and Secondary. Welcome to
the podcast. The episode number is four twenty four. Today's
date is oh, I can't believe it's already March thirty first.
I say that about with every episode twenty twenty five.
I can't believe that we're already this far. The title
of this specific episode, it's kind of fluid. One of

(06:10):
the things I wanted to discuss is using creative outlets
as a way to deal with stress, to use that
with untapped energies, and this is a topic I've been
one and a half for some time. But I also
have Larry Korea here, and I know there are a
lot of listeners that are fans of his books, and

(06:32):
so it might it just might be your name is
going to be the title of this episode. But my
backgrounds law enforcement, been doing the cop things since last century.
Love doing the whole primary secondary thing, all the training,
the networking.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
It's great to be part of this.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Community having these types of having these episodes where we
get to discuss lessons that we've learned, and these are
common lessons and we can laugh at them and it's
just it's wonderful. Don't shoot, don't shoot your range bag,
don't shoot your range bag, don't shoot the inside of
your truck, don't shoot.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, all those things.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
But typically what I do with backgrounds is we'll go
from whoever's been on the most to whoever's been on
leased plug whatever you feel like plugging, bringing up whatever
you feel like bringing up. We're gonna talk about all
kinds of stuff. I suspect we might be talking because
we have a couple former and previous gunshot people here.

(07:30):
We'll have some conversations about that stuff too, dealing with
you know, the local populace. But Dave, what do you
have for us?

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Let's see, I'm going to try to not sound like
my brain doesn't work. I've been up since five o'clock.
I am at our academy and we are doing an
impaired driving week.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
So one of the impaired drivers.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
I'm not impaired currently, although that might be more fun
than trying to teach a group of sixty seven students
who are trying to stay awake in an academy setting.
Let's see, you've been doing the cop thing for about
twelve years on the co owner of DNA Guns. We
specialize in like machine gun type stuff. I have run

(08:20):
public ranges. I have been the manager for another gun
shop at one point. I've done a whole bunch of
random stuff, but a bunch of stuff that's kind of
directly to or tertiarily related to the gun industry.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
It's true.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
And Larry been friends on Facebook probably longer than you
and I have.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Matt, and I think I've.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Met Larry one time at a book signing.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
I have a fan cool.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well, and so a little bit of background. Also, I
kind of threw out a blanket invite to if you
guys feel like Larry's work, chop on. Well, this is
just just going to be a nice discussion.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
So I know a bunch of the people that are
regular so oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:00):
Warren Warren Wilson a training coordinator captain from Oklahoma for
our department, and we have a on police academy and
that kind of stuff and doing that since the nineteen hundreds.
As Matt and I always say, and I know what
the title of the of the episode is, but like
Matt says, we never really know, so just in case, yeah,

(09:24):
just in case that comes up. I'm cool with that.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
That's me.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
And lastly, and there might be some others jumping in, but.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
They don't get to get to give their backgrounds. We have. Larry, Yeah,
I've been around the gun world for a long long time,
as Warren held up in defense of the Sescond Amendment.
That's a book I wrote on basically my defense of
the Second Amendment. I take every gun argument, every anti
gun argument you could think of, and insult it thoroughly,

(09:52):
and sixteen pages of small print citations in there too.
It was like writing a doctoral thesis. I had a
lot of fun with that. I'm a writer, primarily, I'm
a novelist. I've been doing that for about sixteen years now.
Before that, I actually I did own a gun store.
I was. I was an s OT. I did that

(10:13):
for a while, and I was in Noith Curry contracting
before that. But when I say military contract for an
audience like this, I got to specify that I was
an accountant. Okay, I did.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Maths so much sense okay, Owen, yeah, William, Because when
you got like like a primary and secondary audience and
you say, well, I was a military contractor.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
They envisioned you to the trunk monkey. Yeah, bag dad,
you know what I mean? No, No, I was. I
I did spreadsheets, this pit. I mean, I mean, I
am a I am a huge gun nut. Though I've
been shooting shooting forever. I shot three gun for many years.

(10:54):
I shot a lot of I d P A, us P,
s A. I actually had to give up competition shooting
when I made the jump to being a writer because
it just you guys, You guys know how much time
that eats up. But I still go to guns school
a lot. That's kind of like one of my favorite hobbies.
I got a c DR class coming up next month.
I'm going to uh train to Simon galob in uh

(11:15):
meat Hall Range in October. Got my light pin here
from Gabe White, you know, so you know I I
shoot quite a bit and got arrange at my house.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Uh what was the gun store fb MG and draper.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Utah was, Yes, I was. I was the guy that
did not get in trouble with the law.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, very much know them.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah that was me. I was one of the well
you guys have bunny Well, yeah, because I know you have.
I know you guys know Marcus Custer. Uh sure, I
think he did because he wrote with Eric Gailhouse and
Mike Ox Uh with the dot Book.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Definitely Eric, Yeah he's the so.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
But Marcus was a working is a good friend of
mine and we were there. But yeah, I know that
was a long time ago and it is a h yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Some of the.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Stuff, some of the stuff I remember you guys having.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
It had some fun stuff, pretty eclectic, weird collection of stuff,
a lot of RPKs, pks, various aks, ppshs, MP fives.
I got really good at the PPSh. Actually, I really
loved that gun. Fall out of that thing is just fun.
It's is it horrible? It's an objectively horrible gun to

(12:33):
shoot like, it's an ergonomic nightmare. But for whatever reason,
with my giant gorilla arms, I just got really good
with it.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
With the pps is, I have to say I like
the forty three a little bit better now. Now the
forty one more bullets, more buzz, but the forty three,
if you're going to run around and actually actually shoot
it to hit things, I think I like the forty
three better.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
And we have a pile of both of them. The
drummag on that too, is fun where you try not
to cut your fingers off while loading it.

Speaker 5 (13:07):
That's a it's a it's a it's a.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Super fun feature. If you've ever if you've ever had
that spring release while trying to load that drum. Yeah,
it's like, uh, it's like sticking your fingers in a blender.
I mean it's like if you ever need to like
get rid of your fingerprints to avoid you know, uh
uh what your criminal prosecution, just play with a with
a Russian drum mag and it can be arranged.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
So is that where abomination came from?

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah? Actually, so we had a we had a couple
of trow mixed conversions sagas and we and we did
our own Sega conversions too, and uh we had we
had an eight inch and to twelve inch and I
I used the Uh I used Sega in three gun
competition for several years and actually had a lot of
fun with it. Yeah. Yeah, it was especially you know Donna,

(14:00):
it was pretty wild and there was very few people
who understood how to quad load a shotgun back then.
It was like a really rare skill. And uh yeah,
so you show up with you know, eight round uh,
because at the time it was eight round box bags
with the biggest ones you could get. I had three
of those because it y imported from Russia and that
cost a car. Yeah, oh my gosh. It's all of

(14:21):
a sudden, It's like it's like you're you know, you're
twenty seconds ahead of the second place guy on the
shotgun stage. So what was that six?

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Five?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
And so I remember those those guns being super hot,
and I've they kind of it seems like they kind
of faded back for fade away, they come back there.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
They're pain in the butt in a lot of ways.
Like the gas system they're hit or missed too. So
we had a lot We're just flawless, and we had
a lot that just sucked. And I think it kind
of depended on the day of the week in Russia
and that it got made. Yeah, but there were guys
who've made since then, there's guys who made entire gunsmithing
careers out of fixing the gas systems on those things.

(15:05):
To sell with three gun guys, yeah, like we can
do a couple. I have a Gen twelve now and
that thing is just crazy good comparatively, nothing runs everything
any weird shotgun shells do you have laying around? You
could stuff ten different rounds, ten different kinds of rounds

(15:27):
in one mag and just run it. It just that
thing runs crazy good. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, So now we need to get a hold of
Dwayne over at meg Pull and have them makemax.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
And we'll be said, Well, I saw there making for
the Gen twelve. They are making a I think it's
a twenty or twenty five round drum bag. I saw
somebody was advertising.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
But don't you have to get a home loan for
something like that?

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Probably he's probably the car price of a you know,
a decent use car.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
But yeah, okay, yeah, do I want the Pano night
vision or the drum mag from a shotgun? Well, the
drum bag?

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Actually, yeah, okay, come on, we're gun guys. It's not
like we make the best financial decisions.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, we were all pulling. Yeah, I bought I bought
that this this week.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
You know, So have you messed with ok say, we
talked about before we went live, we talked a bit
about Walters the PDPs and have you messed with the
steel frames at all?

Speaker 1 (16:30):
I haven't yet. So this is my first PDP actually,
that I just caught it, and I'm a sucker for
cop guns since I saw that Expro come out and
I was like, I'm gonna go try this out, and uh,
shooters Pro over and Lighton had two in stock, and
I was like, yeah, that's a sign. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
So yeah, Well it was just a lot of those signs.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, when you're looking for him, you find them. The
universe wanted me to buy this the way I would
have had it there at the gun store waiting for me.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Well, in the last couple hours, I was just talking
to nobody who just ordered one, and I was talking
to him about, Okay, if you're running a comp you
might need to do something depending on your AMMO, you
might need to do something with that, with that action spring,
and just getting into that whole thing, because the whole
role in special thing. For a lot of people, there
was some serious fine tuning. Fortunately, mine, which is somewhere

(17:20):
behind me somewhere, Mine shoots one fifteen's without any issue
and everything else. I can't say that's the same for
everyone else. Similar to the Russian shotguns yeah I've heard
so far.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Was the one hundred and fifteen green in Geel. I
put two hundred rounds to it the other day and
it was it was fine with those and that's pretty mild, ammo.
So fingers crossed and everything else is going to run.
But I did order an extra recoil spring of fifteen
pound or just to try. So we'll we'll see what happens.
I'm going to take a shot. I switched. I switched
guns every couple of years. I know that's not the

(17:55):
best thing to do practically, but I get bored, Yeah,
I hear, yeah. And my last gun that I was
into for several years, like an ecosystem, was Sick Sig
three twenties. Yeah, and I had a whole bunch of
Sick three twenties different variants. Then all the SIG SIG
controversy in the last little while, and I was like,

(18:16):
it's got time for me to like mess with something
else anyway I have. I'm not I'm not an engineer.
I have zero idea how anything works, and so I
have no opinion on whether that's the thing or not.
I don't know, So I have no intelligent opinion on that.
But I was like, it's time for me to try
a different brand anyway. For a while before that, I
was twenty eleven's. I did twenty elevens a lot before

(18:36):
those became the hotness. I was doing a nine million
year twenty elevens back in like the early two thousands. Yeah,
and now that's like the super hotness. And back in
those days, I was the one weird guy that wasn't
carrying to roll in special.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Status.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
I know, are trend bucker.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yep, well, but so so what you're saying, as you
were ahead of the curve, we went in a Roland
special to something to twenty eleven, so I think I think, actually.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
What it was is I sold a lot of them,
and so my first twenty eleven I actually I ordered
in a special, ordered in a four point one to five,
the tactical model of the bull barrel and then the
full length dust cover in the rail, and I ordered
it in for a guy and then he decided like
he could, his wife got mad at him. So I
was stuck with this expensive gun and I was like, well,

(19:27):
I'm just gonna I'm going to buy this for myself
and I was like, holy crap, that's a really nice gun. Yeah.
That then it's been about ten years mess around with
Sti's back in the day before they were Stacatou. Yeah.
In fact, my marketing guy a lot of you guys
know on the internet he goes by Jack Wilder, but
he used to work at STI. That's actually how we met,
as he was originally a sales guy at sdi Okay

(19:50):
and I owned a gun store and we were I
was buying guns from him one day and I just
mentioned I's like, hey, wrote, I wrote a fantasy novel
and self published it. And he's like, oh cool, I
want to read it. And that's honestly the beginning of
our friendships years ago. Well it's my.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Marketing guy now, and that's that's I think that's one
of the things that so many people appreciate with your
your books. I talked to Cecil Birch about this, and
he described a move that if you know what you're doing,
this makes total sense. When you talk about gun stuff,

(20:32):
this makes total sense. Clearly you know what you are
talking about.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
And I go refresher, I I and if I don't know,
I try to fake it till I make it or
find somebody smarter than me that to ask, Yeah, I mean,
don't get me here, like I I there's a lot
of really good writers out there. But I actually like
the whole applied violence nerdery. I mean, I love this
stuff completely, so for me putting it in books is

(20:57):
makes perfect sense. But like Shee's all a great guy,
Cecils who hooked me up with uh my first E
c QC. I went and uh and did that with
with Craig Douglas. It's because Cecil introduced me and that
was super educational. I managed it so over the year
since I've stuck a bunch of E c QC type
stuff into various books. I don't know. I I actually

(21:21):
try to, like try to get I do jiu jitsu badly,
like I I I am, I am not I'm not
good at it right, I'm but but that was one
of those Cecil helped me get into that and give
me some advice. But I'm objectively terrible at it, but
it does help the writing.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, so how and what exactly is your process? How
do you go about doing this?

Speaker 1 (21:47):
At what?

Speaker 2 (21:47):
What was in in the order of all the things
that you've done? Where did Monster Hunter come in? Was
that like the one of the first concepts? Yeah, in
the back of your mind.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
It was so the very first thing I ever wrote
was clear back in college, and it was it was
not good and it was just like my first training
Wheels book and yeah, like like a lot of guys,
did you take your first shot before you really have
enough life experience to be a good writer, And so
I shouted that one had had a life and got married,
had kids and was responsible adult for about a decade.

(22:19):
And then it was actually if you, well, do you
guys remember Dawn? On the internet, there were the there
was the firing line the internet un yeah, yeah, yeah,
And so I was on there with a bunch of
other people and we were making jokes. One day there
was lines we'd like to hear in a horror movie
and it was basically the whole premise was if if

(22:40):
horror movies starred our people instead of normal people, And
it was just funny lines and all these people are
having funny lines. It was started by Ian McMurtry, who
back in those days was everybody knew his law dog.
Uh And now he's a writer too, and he's got
his own reckon to a press. Great guy, wonderful guy.
He was a sheriff's deputy in Texas for ever, great,

(23:01):
great dude, and so he started this and we're all
laughing and joking, and this one guy had a line
in there that was it was a guy named Dylis Freeman,
and it said, the difference between you know, you know
what the difference between me and you really is. You
look out there and see a warde if people brain
eating zombies, I see a target rich environment. And I
snort laughed when I read that, and I was like,

(23:21):
that's so that's so funny, that's so spot on. But
then I started thinking about it, and I was like,
what if? What what? What if we actually did have,
you know, like like for profit bunch of gun nuts
handling monster movie problems. And that's where it came from.
And so I took a shot at it and it

(23:42):
came out really really good, and I self published it.
I tried to. I tried to get regular published, but
that didn't work super good because regular publishing industry is
not super friendly or understanding of like our our culture
at all. Oh I can imagine. Yeah, And so I
got I got rejected a lot. Self published way back

(24:05):
before that was really a think and by a miracle,
I worked out really good. And that was the beginning
and I've just been going since I'm I'm at novel
number thirty. I'm working on novel number thirty one right now.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Some of my favorite like.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Kind of internet friends but don't really know them, Like
you're one of those people, Larry, since we've.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Been friends on Facebook forever.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Or like fifteen years or something, yeah, forever, but like,
but like when you when you just you're, you're I'm
going to troll the trolls posts when you're and you're
trolling George Martin posts where you're like.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Just in case you're wondering, here's here's the fourth book
I've published this year.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
It's not that hard. Just sit down, Oh man, I
got the Uh. So, for those of you who don't
know me, I am a compulsive fight picker. I'm Portuguese.
It's my it's my it's my cultural heritage as a
fiery Latin man. And I I just a compulsive fight picker.

(25:18):
And I can't stand dishonest people. I can't. It just
did bug me. And so I'll go on the Internet
and I'll pick fights. And uh, I've done that a
lot in my writing career too, in the publishing world
that I've pissed a lot of people off. But you know,
sometimes the world needs people to be honest, and uh,
I'm in a position I can get away with it. Uh.
I think a lot more people would be honest too,

(25:39):
but they're like stuck for they can't say what they
want to say without I mean, you guys are in
law enforcement. You understand there's a lot of stuff you'd
love to say to people here. Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah,
on the all thought of ten different people and I
said that, and you're all, you know, everyone is right,
but uh, you know so I I just say what
people want to say, and it's I have a lot

(26:01):
of fun with it. I try to be funny about it,
and it's I don't. I don't take it personal, and
it's always funy. Case people like, well, you sound angry,
It's like no, On the contrary, this is what I'm
for fun Well, I mean, I enjoy this stuff. I mean.
Hardest part for me is not getting involved in other
people's pages. I try to keep the conflict to my

(26:22):
own for the most part. I have a few friends
of mine where it's like hunting over a bated field,
you know, like you're throwing out corn to bring in
the deer.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Low information gun groups.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Gosh, they're so bad. They're so bad.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
Oh man, Actually a low information gun group is how
Matt and I got to know each other.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
It's true. Oh my gosh. There's so much bad stuff
out there and just compulsive liars too, and then you
try to like put some good information out there and
you just get shouted down by the masses. Yeah, and
uh it's so hard. I was, I was, do you

(27:04):
guys know who Merco? Mugly is a great guy, wonderful shooter.
I get super talented shooter. And uh so one time
I was at a class and we were at an
indoor with Merco, and we were at an indoor range
and I I had just taken a shot at the
coin for the class, and I had it was actually
gave way. I had missed turbo by just this much,

(27:27):
all right, And so I was like, it was like
point one eight of a second is what eliminated me
from from from being able to get a turbo pen.
And so I'm I'm I'm walking off the line and
I'm I'm cussing at myself and I'm like, I'm slow,
I'm stupid. I screwed that up. That was such garbage.
And and I'm walking away and Merco stops me, and

(27:48):
he and he and he goes, Larry, you think about this.
He's like, look up, and I look up at the
ceiling and it's the ceiling baffles of this indoor range
riddled with bullet Okay, just riddled the bullet holes. And
Merco goes, that's normal, Yes, he goes. He goes, We're

(28:10):
basically demigods to these people.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
There's some truth to that.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
He said that. I was like it, Actually, it was
the right thing to tell me. At the moments I
was so mad at myself for like coming this close
to the top and then blowing it, you know, And
to have him tell me that, I was like, all right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
And of his caliber to say that, yeah, oh, he.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Is so good. I've watched this guy shoot so many
times and he is so good with a sake nine.
I mean, that guy is out there running Double Action
two twenty nine in a world full of striker fired
comp guns. Yep, and uh and he's he's rocks it.
Humble guy too, super nice guy, super nice game.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
As a matter of fact, he's did tech cont just
end probably there right now week just yeah, I wanted
to be there, but get a way.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, I'm right. I'm writing a graphic novel script right
now and I'm going to be doing that around the
clock for the rest of the week, and so I
ain't going nowhere for a few days.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
So how does that work with you for different projects?
So clearly you have Monster Hunter, You've had the Second
Amendment book, you have others. How do you how do
you how do you determine what energy is go into
what at what point?

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well there? So basically I have about basically seven different
ips that I write. I'm a multi genre kind of guy,
but it's really kind of twofold and that there's the
business level of what I need to do business wise
at any given time. Then there's the creative level, and
it's like what I'm really feeling passionate about at the time.
And hopefully those two align, if you know what I mean.

(29:52):
But if they don't, then business has to win out
because that's what you know, pays the bills. The reason
I jump around through so many because if I want to
just make maximum money, I would just write nothing but
Monster Hunter novels because those that's my biggest ip.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
But i'd be worried. It's what I'd be worried about
burnout exactly.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
I find if I do the same thing over and
over and over again, I start to stagnate idea wise.
But if I write one thing and then I write
a different thing, and then I write a different thing,
and then I go back to the first thing, then
I'm like, I'm feeling it again, and I've had a break,
and I'm like I'm excited, I'm enthused. And if I
do the same thing over and over again, I just

(30:34):
I would start to bur I know a lot of
writers should do that. They have like their one cash
cow thing, and they'll just keep going back to that
well until it's dry, and then their careers don't last long.
So I've actually been doing this quite a while and
I've not really turned in a turd yet. Deal. I mean,
I've got some that have done better than others, and

(30:54):
some of them are popular than others. But I've never
had like a. I've never done like a. Really, I've
never done anything. It's a flop as far as like
the book itself was bad. Like my novel that came
out during COVID was actually a really good book, but
it was a financial flop because like ninety nine percent
of the bookstores were closed and everybody's reading there existing
to be red piles, or watching Netflix, you're playing video games.

(31:16):
So book sales just fell off a and audiobooks fell
off a cliff because no one is commuting. So I
wrote this really good sci fi novel and it came
out right peat COVID and just nothing happened, you know.
So that's just the nature of the beast. But I
bounced around a lot, and like, right now, I'm doing
a few things for a few different publishing houses because

(31:36):
I got to the point in my career was like
I really need to get my eggs in multiple baskets,
and so right now I'm writing for like basically three
or four different places at any given time.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
So how does that work? So you have seven different ips,
how many are current where you're going to continually add
on to it?

Speaker 1 (31:58):
So Monster Hunter is still active, and I have a
new one that's h I haven't released the official title
yet that I'm working on for Arc Press, so some
one starts band. I got the new one with Arc Press,
and I have one that's coming out in October. It's
Spaginning of another series called The Academy Account Outcast faithOn.
So those three are the current and then currently wrapped up.

(32:18):
I have Soagta Forgotten Warrior just finished six books, and
then Dead six series is trilogy wrapped up, grim Nor
is a trilogy wrapped up, and I'm forgetting something a
Last Planet Homicide and gun Runner that's still kind of
active because the book that's the one that came out
during COVID and kind of died. But the novella series

(32:39):
I do on Audible, which is gritty cop show in Space.
That one's awesome and it's still going strong. So what
about and I'm missing something here? Oh until I'm a Stranger.
There's more Tom Stranger coming.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
So about five then that are that are active?

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah? So I have five active, three they're complete.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
So how do you go about You haven't idea and
you go, oh, you know what, this this is a
great twist. How do you determine which one to apply
it to?

Speaker 1 (33:06):
At this point in my career, it's like, which one
of these can I'm best sell to somebody? Okay, I
think that's the big part. When you're starting out, it's
just like whatever you're passionate about and just go for it,
because your audience is going to be whatever you can
make yourself at that point, and so justs go for
whatever you're excited for, you know, and don't worry about it.
Just just run with it. Otherwise, you know, it's now

(33:30):
it's kind of for me, it's like a business decision,
like what do I really want to do? This sounds fun,
but also will you know, be something that the fans
want are popular? Like I haven't done Monster Hunter for
a while, but that's because I have I've got business
reasons because I need to basically open up new things
in new places before I could get back to that one.
The established one problem is there's just one of me,

(33:53):
and there's just not enough hours in the day to
do all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, how do you keep track of ideas a.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Lot of notes, a lot of word documents, I believe it,
or not to use your phone as well. I do
if I'm traveling or if I'm away from my computer,
but primarily everything's gonna get dumped on my computer. Eventually.
I will actually email myself too. If I'm like in
a really awkward situation like I just can't do any writing,

(34:21):
I'll send myself an email. I've done that in the
middle of the night too, Like when I'll be on
book tour whatever at like three o'clock in the morning
and I'll wake up with an idea that I think
I had a dream or whatever. I think this is
an awesome idea, and I'll email it to myself.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Kiddy eating apples what In the morning.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
I'll read it and I'm like, what eat us? Like
angel hair past and robot time travel exactly.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Oh, that sounds good.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
You should do that one well, and I've done that.
I've done that a few times. I also have a rule.
My wife actually enforced this rule with me, so when
I was starting out on my career, I would get
really fired up and i'd be writ and right, and
i'd be in the zone right, and there'd be midnight,
one o'clock in the morning, I'd still be I saw
a day job, right. If I would write when I could,
and I'd be really fired up and passionate, and I'd

(35:09):
i'd write till three o'clock in the morning, and I think, yeah,
that was awesome. Well the next day. Every time I've
ever done that, the next day I would go and
read what I wrote from like one o'clock in the
morning to three o'clock in the morning, and it's other
just dog water, you know. It's like and so basically
like so my wife after I did this like ten times,
my wife is just like, no, one o'clock in the morning,

(35:31):
you have to call it. You are done. And I've
gotten older. Now that's like ten ten at night. Yeah, yea.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
So how have you How have you maintained that balance
with home work?

Speaker 1 (35:47):
I have one after I have an awesome wife. Honestly,
he she puts up with a lot of crap, and uh,
everybody who knows my wife, my wife is, my wife
is amazing. Like I have I luck, We've been ready
for twenty seven years and we've got four kids. Balancing
all this stuff. It's because like being a writer is
cool and all I was just it's just like being
a like competition shooting guys who like spend every weekend

(36:11):
at the range and and and and reload twice during
the week and and go to the pin match on
Thursday night. It's the same kind of thing. It's like,
no matter how passionate or good you are at something,
even if you're driving to be the best of the best,
you still have to balance that with your life, because

(36:31):
you got one just to be a dad, and then
they're grown up and then they're gone. So I mean,
it's just it's just balancing that stuff. And so luckily
for me, I liked my kids and so I enjoyed
being around them. Uh and I've raised three of them
to adulthood now and they've turned out to be decent

(36:52):
human beings, and so I'm pretty excited about that. I've
got uh, you know, I think one might be getting
married here pretty soon, which is terrifying. Another one's off
doing a great career. Ones in South America right now
on an LVS mission. He's in Peru, living in a
living in tiny tiny. He's six foot six in Peru.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, so he's double the height of everyone there.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Every photo we get of my son's a big kid
and superb shooter for his age. The kid is fantastic.
But yeah, so every picture he sends is he's just
towering over everybody else. Okay, this is this is funny.
So he was in a city called Pira, Peru, right
and he saw his first gunfight, And you guys said,

(37:41):
this is a kid that I've been teaching to shoot
since he was probably you know, seven years old, eight
years old. This kid has been to a bunch of like,
you know, really good pistol classes. He's worked with, you know,
Chris Seipert, Melody Lower, John Johnston as a teenager, right,
and net Evans was coaching him one time and got
mad at him and said, and listen, dummy, and she's like,

(38:02):
if I had your upper body strength, I would have
been world champion. Okay, shut up and listen. The boy
is super good. So he goes to Peru. He sees
his first gunfight and he calls me the next day
and he was so disappointed and he was like, Dad,
I saw a proov and gunfight and I just got
to say that I could run these streets. That's right
the way he described it. He said. It was two

(38:25):
guys and they were across the street and every street
in Peru looks the same, and they're behind the behind
little walls, and they both had revolvers and one guy
would pop up and go bang bang bang ban bang,
and he fires six shots and he'd go back down
and reload. Then the other guy would pop up and
fire six shots bang bang bang by bang and then
go down and reload and they did this for like
five minutes. They never moved, they just kept shooting, and

(38:50):
he was down the street with everybody else just kind
of like watch it, you know, and he was like,
he's like, I'm an American. This is like this. He's like,
this is the saddest thing I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
It definitely wouldn't make any TV show, that's for sure.
Maybe Reno nine one.

Speaker 5 (39:06):
All.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
This is a kid. I I got him a CZP
ten F and we put an apex trigger in it
when he was like fourteen years old. Fifteen years old.
You know, the kid is good. He's got a sub
six fast as a teenager. So yeah, established right, he
could if he wanted, he can stay in Peru and

(39:28):
open up a business.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
How much more time does he have?

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Four months? Okay, he's almost done. He's trunky. He's ready
to come up. Trunkie. That's the word I have not
heard in a very long time. This kid's lost forty
pounds because he was a noseguard on his high school
football team. He was a big, big, big kid, right,
and so he's lost I think it's forty forty five pounds. Wow. Yeah,
he looks like a basketball player now not a football player,

(39:56):
And he's like, if I never eat chicken and rice again,
I'm happy I got sounds awesome, though. Yeah. I like
my kids. I've got a great family, and so spending
time with my family has actually been been a treat.
When I got out of the gun business, I was
actually kind of disillusioned with shooting because I had done

(40:17):
it so much, and I had done it professionally, and
I was teaching a lot of CCW classes and I
was helping out, so I was always on the range
and I was always doing gun stuff all the time,
and I got burned out. And so when I got
out of the gun business, I actually had about four
or five years where I didn't shoot. I mean, I
carried religiously. I'm like, if I'm wearing pants, I got

(40:39):
a gun on. But I had several years worth. The
only time I shot was just basically enough to keep
up like bear proficiency, right, But then I just kind
of like lost a passion for it. And what actually
brought me back was my oldest daughter was getting old
enough that she was actually like, you know that age
where she really needed to be learning. She expressed interest

(41:01):
in so I started taking her to the range and
having my kid with me, all of a sudden, I
was like, oh my gosh, this is actually really fun.
And yeah, she runs a nine millimeter nineteen eleven. She's
an old fashioned kind of girl, and you know, we
just started having fun with it again. So that's what
actually brought me back and I rediscovered you know, sometimes

(41:24):
on the creative thing, you got to take a break
from something because you get burned out. Yeah, you know,
and it's whether it's writing books, are being at the
range every single day. You just get to the point
where you need a break. And for me, I took
that break and to come back with my kids was
was awesome. And then I started, you know, going back
to gun schools. Not getting back into competition though, just

(41:45):
because I've been down that rabbit hole before and it's
probably a bit time suck.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
How has that changed you're writing?

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Honestly, I think it helps out quite a bit because
I'm one of the only guys out there as a
as a fiction writer that is as hardcore a shooter
and a gun nut. And plus I'm I'm I mean,
it's my it's my actual culture. I mean, this is
the this is my culture. These are my people, and
so when I write about those is it's authentic because

(42:14):
it's my people, it's what I do. There's a lot
of writers who aren't part of our world, and they'll
try to write it, but they don't actually get it,
and so it reads like they're an outsider, like Reacher.
Reacher is super popular. Lee Child's sold orders of magnitudes

(42:35):
more books than I have. That guy's huge, Like I
sold millions and millions of books. I mean, I've sold
a few million books. He sold tens of millions of books.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
But he doesn't how a firearm operates.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Dude, I have volunteered. I put this out on I
put this out on the Writer Dojo podcast one time,
and I was like, Hey, if anybody knows Lee Child,
tell him I will read his manuscripts as just a
gun editor for free. Yeah, please call me. Yeah, because
his gun stuff is horrific. It's so it's so bafflingly bad. Yeah.

(43:12):
But there's a lot of guys like that and they
just don't They just don't know what they don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
And then also, just like that ceiling with all the holes,
the population doesn't know either.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
No, they really don't. I mean some guys. Some guys
know their stuff. Like I mean, Jack Carr is a shooter.
I mean, he's he's a legit shooter. Well he was
a Navy seal. I mean to be fairer so, but
from my understanding, he that guy shoots and he knows,
he knows what's up he and he appreciates this stuff.
I mean, there's some guys. Steven Hunter, Stephen Hunter genuinely

(43:45):
really likes guns. You know, he gets it and he
doesn't even he doesn't come from a gun nutty background.
He actually became a writer and then learned more about
that stuff as it went on. He really loves the
historical ass A great guy. He's actually a really really
nice guy in person. But a lot of these guys, Man,
there's a few dudes. They're pretty popular authors. I don't
want to name them because they're so awful, but but

(44:08):
they're like we're talking number one best selling, top top
thriller dudes. And it's like I'm rereading their stuff is like,
have you ever actually touched a fire arm? He pulled
the hammerback on his glock. I mean, I mean, it's
it's like it's like it's like just baffling oh and
the one that always slays me. And I've been yelled

(44:29):
at my other authors because they think I'm like, uh,
they think I'm like too too uh picky about this.
But the smell of cordite in the air, that's the thing. Yeah,
I say. I say that. I was making fun of
that one time, and all these writers who've used it,
like other pro writers, like, oh, well, that's that's okay,
that's It's like, no, it's stupid, guys. It's like it's

(44:50):
like you got in your car and you turned on
the steam engine for your for your for your phone focus.
You know. It's like, no, that's not how it works.
You know. It's like you went you went home, and
you and you turn to cook dinner. You did it
over a wood fire in the middle of your living room.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
You're electric woodfire stove.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Well, it reminds me of how many people have these
favorite gun movies because they do things right and versus
the movie. Yeah, everything else, I don't care, but yeah,
these these movies did this right.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Oh yeah, I think all those gun You guys have
a handful of movies. Even if we never watched the
movie again, we'll watch particular scenes. Yes, like, we've all
watched the bank robbery scene from Heat A hundred times. Yeah,
oh Yohomie is at my briefcase. Uh, let's see what

(45:45):
else is there. Yeah, we we we we all the
scene on the bridge and Sacario. You know, we've all
seen these these these movie these movie scenes where they
actually get the gun stuff like like like cool, Yeah,
I love that stuff. Yeah, I mean the again. I
mean I've only watched The Carrier once because that's a

(46:06):
depressing movie. I mean there's some good scenes, but man,
that the whole movie just makes you just makes you sad.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
But at least they have good gun stuff.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, the gun stuff. When Jeffrey Donovan's sitting there in
the front of the car and he just like he's
just chilling, you know it, you know, and and that's
just such a great scene, so well done. Yeah, I
love that stuff. I get good idea is too, Like
I go too shooting gives you good ideas for when
you're like when I when I'm trying to write action sequences.

(46:37):
And I've told this to so many writers who aren't
gun people. It's like, get out to the range, find
your gun nutty friends. At least get it. So you
get the vibe and the feel. But then for like us,
like I'll go and I I've borrowed stuff from pretty
much every every instructor I've ever taken a class from.
There's been some little nugget or tidbit or something in

(46:59):
there that like made its way into a fictional book.
You know, I'm probably the only writer who's ever used
Robin Matt Hott's push pull shotgun method in a book.
You know, So.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Would there be a point where you'd actually address that
where you drop their names?

Speaker 1 (47:19):
I have I have actually dropped some names, and I
have planned on morning if actually I told I told
Craig Douglas that that in the next Monster Honey, he
gets a specific name drop where Owen gets permission to
build some shive works classes for training. Cool. Yeah, so

(47:40):
I told Craig that's in there. Yeah, I know, I've
named I've named dropped on the I believe it was
one of the first books. I actually I I quote
Clinton Smith like like fifteen years ago, you know, the
old I can't remember what the line was, but it
was it was one of the I think it was
a shot might have been if you if you look

(48:03):
like food you'll get eaten or was that deep spalding.
I can't remember, but I but I try to. I
try to attribute these, you know, because I still remember.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
I do remember. In the first one, I swore there
was something about the difference between pistols and rifles and shotguns,
and that shotguns are going to take off, yeah, chunks
or limbs, or yeah, I got hit with a mediamer.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
I actually got that from a wound ballistics class Marcus
Custer taught a long long time ago, where yeah, first
part of the day we looked at pistol wounds, second
part of the day we looked at rifle wounds. After
lunch we looked at shotguns. And I was like, oh,
that was a bad decision. No, there's there's a lot

(48:47):
of good stuff out there. But just I try to
get I try to get these writers to the range.
I try to do what I can, and I've actually
taught a few to shoot and managed to get a
few guys to shoot for the first time. I have
one writer. I won't name him because he's a good
friend of mine, but this is kind of embarrassing, right.
He's a very conservative man, very politically, but his wife

(49:08):
is not his wife is in fact, very very very
liberal and doesn't like guns and won't let him have
a gun in the house. He's a good friend of mine,
and so I actually took him shooting, and I actually
dragged him along to a basic defensive pistol class, and
I loaned him. I loaned him a block. I loaned
him a block forty five and like, you know, just
some some some you know, just I mean then I

(49:31):
love glock number naming nine millimeter glock, the model forty five, yes,
and so you know, just trying to get him up
to speed, but his wife STI wouldn't let him have
a gun in the house, even after he got a
little bit of training. And so I decided, this is
what those Turkish, those hundred and fifty dollars Turkish shotguns
are for, because like I'm too proud to ever use
those myself. But you buy him when they're on a

(49:54):
Black Friday sale for like one hundred bucks, and you
throw them in your basement and you have him as
loader guns for the apocalypse for your friends. And that's
why I have this for this other writer. And I
saw it as a really good deal in this Turkish
like Ege seventy cloner and I grabbed you for one
hundred bucks, and I threw the baseline. And one time
he was over my house and I let him shoot.
I was like, I was like, all right, man, case

(50:14):
the case at the end of the world. This is
for you, and I'll have it here and i'll give it.
I'll give you this and a few boxes a buck
shot and here's.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
A range bag with a bullet hole in it.

Speaker 5 (50:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah, yeah, And if you live through the night, don't worry.
There'll be plenty of better guns lying around on the
ground tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Well, I think a lot of people have kind of
taken that, like I might have some loaners behind me.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
If things get to that point, you know what I
can help.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
It's our responsibility is the is the one gun in
the family, you know, to be like yeah, I mean
I'm not giving them like a JP Enterprises or anything.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah there, But also they need to if they're going
to borrow something, they need to put forth a bit
of an effort to make sure they're gonna be safe
and they know how to operate it.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Yeah. Yeah, because because the last thing I want to
do is get shot on accident by the Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
No, they just wanted that STI that's why they shot you.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
Oh yeah, oh so my Actually, my kids have staked
out my guns based upon when I, you know, when
when dad dies, who gets whitch gun. They've actually had
this conversation in front of me, like we're eating dinner.
I'll have all my kids there and they start arguing
over who gets whitch of my guns when I die?
Which is the most contested overall? They haven't contested much

(51:38):
because each one has their different ones that they're into.
So like my daughter is the one with the champagne
taste on a beer budget because she's the one that's
in the old STI is the twenty elevens. My son
is an AR builder and so he's claimed most of
the rs and the girls don't really shoot it. And
then my other daughter is a PCC nut and I'm
pretty deep, I got I got some you know, Evos

(52:00):
Bretta PMX for whatever reason. This girl is just a
and she carries a sick three sixty all my kids
carry and she carries a three sixty five. But she's
claimed all the PCC's. So the boys claimed all the ars.
Other girls claimed the cop pistols. And they just kind
of like and then the youngest one, he's kind of
like the odd man out. He gets like the leftover crap. Yeah,

(52:23):
he'sn't Peru though, So yeah, it's like it's like, oh,
that's that's the older one. So the younger one is like,
here's your Palmetto State. Uh you know ar it's like
the young one gets the young one gets shafted. Here's
your here's your here's your Taurus G four.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
So I got I have a fourteen year old and
a four year old and neither interested.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
So well, yeah he gave him a little time. Fourteen
years old, they're still interested in minecraft. You know.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Oh it's true, absolutely true, it'll it'll, it'll be.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
I think we're older. I was, Uh, I was one
of I don't like you guys. That was one of
those young gun nuts where I was.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
I had the gun digests and the Yeah, I was
like a Christmas present just look through everything and memorize everything,
and yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Man, I love those I I I would I would
get I could almost use the back of those like
like like flash carts to identify all the guns man
I was in and then and then Guns Magazine American Handgunner.
So when I finally got to meet Masad at you,
I kind of I kind of fan boyed a little bit,

(53:33):
which wasn't very professional, just because I had been reading
his stuff since I was probably late teens, and it
had actually had been kind of formative for me. Yeah,
and so like late teens, early twenties, I think I
read every au files, you know, and uh and when
I was in college, the library had all of them,

(53:54):
you know, all the all the back issues of American Handgunner,
and I think I read all of them. Yeah, and
uh So the first time I met him hews out
in Utah doing a mag mag forty class. So the
first time I ever met him, I just kinda I
kind of fan point out. And so when people see
me as a writer and they'll kind of get like
like very awkward and like, oh my gosh, I can't believe,

(54:15):
you know, guys who've been reading me since high school
or whatever. Yeah, and I was like, no, I get it,
I get it, I understand. I've been there. Absolutely, it's
a human thing.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Absolutely. Uh. Warren and I last October got to go
to a media event with a bunch of gun writers
and it's so cool to see behind the scenes and
to be around them and hear their perspectives. And I'm
my primary employment is not media, it's not writing, it's
law enforcement. But to be able to be around these
people fascinating. And and that was a good group. Good group, man,

(54:51):
is random gun writer dudes. That was hand picked. Yeah,
guys who know what they run these guns. And I
only got in because Matt recommend me for it, so
otherwise everybody else was only squad away and yeah, man,
that's uh yeah, they're definitely influential and for a good reason.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
It's weird. It's weird though, Like and then you meet him,
You're like, well, they're they're just they're human beings. Yeah,
it's fun stuff. And I mean, we got a lot
of really really cool people, uh, in this world too.
There's a lot of there's a lot of smart gs.
We've got a lot of dumb asses too. But you know,
it's just like any other group.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
You know, Well, what's cool is you just in a
in a sentence, brought up Chris and John and that
that whole group, Like, I know all those guys, it's
so cool. How how how how how circles and worlds collide?

Speaker 1 (55:46):
And all every one's inter mingled. I've noticed about about
kind of like this, this kind of universe here is
that it's not super big. I mean, even though it's
it covers the whole country, there's not a ton of
people who shoot that much, take it that serious at
that level. And so what happens is is, if you know,

(56:08):
they talk about the six degrees of Kevin Bacon, you
know the six degrees, I think at the gun world
there's more like two or three degrees. Yes, yes, because
we because because if you're the kind of guy that trains,
then you have our shoot competition, or you go to
the you go to tac Con, or you go to whatever.
You know, all these people like I took a class

(56:29):
a couple of years ago, and when I go to classes,
I try real hard. I'm just I'm just a guy, right,
And so if I do have fans there, I don't
really introduce myself as Larry Korea, I'm just Larry. I'm
just the guy they're shooting. I mean, sometimes I get
recognized because I'm big and distinctive looking, but a lot
of times I don't say, you know that I'm Larry
the writer, the instructor, usually knows who I am. But

(56:50):
I just I just go and just have fun, just going.
I just want to be a regular dude. But I
was in this class and we were shooting for three days,
and on the third day, we're doing like the wash
at the end, you know, and everybody's talking about what
they learn and it's for something in The instructor is like, oh, yeah,
by the way, this and uh, you know, Larry Korea
thinks coming. It's like, yeah, you know, for being a
for being a minor celebrity in the gun world, you're

(57:11):
you're actually pretty humble. And this these two guys sitting
right in front of me, I've been shooting them with
him for three days. They turn around, they go, you're
Larry Korea. And the guy's like, oh man, I got
your book in my core. Would you siting? And I
was like And as soon the guy started doing that,
the instructors like, okay, I see why you don't. I

(57:31):
see why you don't say who you are. It just
makes it weird, though, I should play that card right
before the shootoff to see who's top gun and clash.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
You. Yeah, It's it is so cool, how how this
is a small community and yeah, so they're wonderful people involved,
wonderful people that are part of it.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Yeah, it's just not a it's not it's not it's
not a lot. So so I I dedicated the book
before last guy named Jack Clemens. And I'm sure you
guys know, oh yeah, yeah, everybody knows Jack, Like everybody
in the gun world in North America and probably beyond
knows Jack Clemens.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
And and and it's it's it's cool, it's it's a
it's kind of a tribute to how influential he he is.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
That was his he's up. We all still talk about
the My Bad twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
I've shared that within my PD just to say this,
this is something to consider.

Speaker 5 (58:37):
We just did that with with Chris on uh on
a podcast a while back, not too long ago, with
Chris Ipert.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
I know, with Chris, Yeah, Chris, Chris is a wonderful
guy's great, he's a great, super nice guy. And uh,
you know, so so so so so so. Well, it's
not it's not a big world. And so that's the
thing when guys are dicks, that gets around really fast too,

(59:04):
you know. And if you spend three days on a
range with somebody, you get to know their character. Yeah,
you know, your character gets laid bare when you fail
in front of you know, twenty stringers. Ye, and you're tired,
you're hot, you're born out, you're distracted. Whatever. Yeah. Well,

(59:27):
like like like talking to Craig Douglas, like like the AQC,
I was asking him one time, if you ever read
a problem with like bullies. I mean, because it's so
physical and you get a lot of guys like me,
who are I'm just a desk jockey. You know. It's
like when I was young, I was strong in physical,
a farm kid. But I'm almost fifty now when I
go do this stuff and get my ass kicked, and
I was just thinking, I was like, what happens if

(59:48):
we had a kid in our class was like a
twenty five year old former state champ wrestler, and so
if he wanted to beat the crap out of people,
he could, but he didn't because he was a nice guy,
and so he would train as hard as the other
guys around him wanted to train, and so it was
like it was like a mutual agreement on how hard
they're going to go at it. So like when when

(01:00:11):
when the US two guys in our late forties are
beating each other up. It's it's a slap fight, right
when when you got the jiu jitsu brown belt versus
the state champion wrestler, those guys are beating the living
hell out of each other and having a great time.
Uh and so. But by asking Craig, and he said, honestly,
in all the years he's done, he's only had a
couple and they just and they just dealt with them,

(01:00:32):
you know, And you think about that just the nature
of like that, if you do that kind of thing
in like the regular world with just people off the street,
you'd be so much more likely to find guys that
are just dicks than you do in this than this
kind of world.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
I mean honestly, by the time, it would end up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Like one of the three of us getting called there because.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
No, it ain't all seriousness. Because these days people don't
understand how to just be polite, say my bad, not
go full force all that kind of stuff. People's feelings
get hurt, and then someone gets hurt for real and
the police get called.

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
Yep, And it's always those people who don't know how
to fight in the first place. They are starting it.
The guys who actually are scored away and know how
to fight, know how to shoot, and know how to
gun fight. They don't want no part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
They take they're not the one taking their shirt off.
I think that was actually a Jack Clemens thing, is
like whichever guy takes your shirt off is the one
that's gonna lose. It's like the indicator is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Like, oh this guy, yeah, sounds about right. Oh well,
I'm going to take a quick little break. This will
just be some quick little ads. So if anyone needs
to run at record speed for bathroom or drink, now's
the time and mute and they will be muted, so

(01:01:56):
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Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
And that's how it's done, okay. And ironically, as we
were talking about knowing everybody, I know Chris from Lucky Gunner. Yeah,
and I know the crew from Filster and all those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
It is a small world. Yep. Small fact they shot
at my house when we had I had I hosted
a class at my range. Yeah, it is a small world.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Speaking of that sort of, I understand you're a bit
of a nerd.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
A bit so am I That's okay?

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
How much of Owen Pitt is you?

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
A little bit? And it's not as much as people think,
And because honestly, as a writer, there's gonna be little
bits of you in every character you write. And in fact,
as far as the Monster Hunter crew goes, I'm more
trip in personality. I am Owen the dreads Now Owen though,

(01:04:47):
is all my angry all my angry bits. And uh now,
I did make him a big guy, and I did
make him an accountant because those were because when it
was one of those, when I was writing this, I
was like it was like, you should write what you know,
and I know what it's like to live as a
six foot five, three hundred pound big giant dude. And

(01:05:08):
I also plus accountant was funny to have an account
and become an action hero. Was just kind of amusing,
pre dating to Ben Affleck movie by a good ten years. Yeah, no,
so there's a little bit there. But my personality why
a sense of humor and whatnot. Yeah, especially if you're

(01:05:28):
writing a first person, it's really handy to be able
to use somebody with your same sets of humor. He's
way the hell tougher than I am. I would curl
up in a ball and die if I have that.
Stuff happened to me. I mean, but I'm not out
there flipping tractor tires every day for fun.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
And getting paid to do it. So and you're not
after those contracts.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
No, he gets he gets paid well. But honestly, every right,
every character I write, there's gonna be little elements of
my personality and then that and that's true for all
of us. Yeah, even even the bad guys sit go paths,
which is kind of a kind of a bad thing.
But every writer has uh has those elements too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
So then also for individual characters. Do you have individuals
that you go, oh, this is clearly oh yeah, this
is my wife happens.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
I borrow heavily from people that I know in real life.
I have them, yes, mostly.

Speaker 5 (01:06:26):
Not the bad ones.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Yeah. I was gonna say it depends, because I've written
some from bad guys and jerks and like all around
scumbags that are based on people I know in real
life too. But those I don't really need to like
call them up and say, hey, this one dirt bag,
corrupt dirt bag I have is totally you, you know,
like I was in military contract to be like yo,

(01:06:47):
contracting officer. By the way, you're a corrupt federal agent
now you know. I don't do that. No, But like
I'm like, I borrowed a bunch of people I know
in real life and and I've squeezed aimin. It's it's
it's fun to do.

Speaker 5 (01:07:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
I think also it probably helps with consistency as well,
because you have that as a reference.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
It does, and uh, being able to picture him in
your head, uh and and be consistent is huge. So
whenever I'm writing a book with another person, like I'm
doing a collaborative novel, what we'll usually do is while
we're outlining the book, we will go through and will
cast actors because there's that way is somebody we both know,
and then we can and then that way in our head,

(01:07:32):
even though this will never make it into the book,
in our head is the same person. So I can
write the guy and he can write the guy, and
they seem fairly consistent. It's because we have the same
person playing that character, you know, So that does actually
work pretty good. Like me and Steve Diamond did Servants Award,
the main their captain was Bruce Willis is basically Russian

(01:07:56):
Bruce Willis. You know, that's just how it works. He
just cast the guy and you run with it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Yeah, yeah, well, and then again it maintains that that
that that focus.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Yeah. During the break, I was reading the comments to
catch up, and I saw one guy asking when next
Monster Hunter? Next year? So so twenty twenty six, and
it's actually if I can pull this off. The plan
is number nine and number ten are going to be
back to back, So I don't want to give too

(01:08:27):
much of that away yet because I have something special
planned for those social action. Finally, oh dude, I wish
I have had no luck on that movie front. Man,
movies are Hollywood sucks. I've been I've been around that.
I it ain't my first rodeo. Man, I've been around
that a few times. Yeah, we'll you get wined and

(01:08:49):
dined and uh, and they'll do contracts and they'll option it,
and they'll have all these big plans and then tell
you all the wonderful stuff they're going to do, and
then nothing happens for like three years, and then they
never talked to you again. And then you sell the
options to the next company and do and repeat the process.
So at this point, I as long as the option

(01:09:09):
checks cash, I don't care. You know, I have no
faith in Hollywood whatsoever. So I don't. I don't. I
don't chase it or worry about it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
So for years, years people said, I got to read,
got to read these books, got to read these books.
And I'm currently working grapes. I thought, wait a minute,
here's the So within the last month I started Monster
Hunter one, which is already done on audiobook, already passed.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Yeah, vengeance in the alpha now uh.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
And the narrator is great, Oh, the narrator.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
And this is one of the things I had to
remind a buddy, you know this is all one guy, right,
Remember that you're you're listening to a guy that's a
single guy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
It's amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:09:56):
But just the one of.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
The things I told the same guy was, I kind
of want to work some extra hours because I want
to continue listening as I'm driving around and doing whatever.
But just been so so good, And then recommending it
to family members and they listen and they go, oh,
I really like this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Lex When you know you've done your job is when
someone is listening to an audiobook on commute and they
come home and they park in their garage and they're
ready to get off work and they stay in the
garage and listen and stay in the car.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
It was there, you know, And it's like absolutely For me,
it's like and and and to add on to that,
to be done for my week and okay, my weekend.
Do I want to listen when I'm off I do?
But do I want to keep it for my work?
I want to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
I want to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
I want to have it available to me when I'm
at work. At that that whole balance.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
But that's one one thing about my career that's been
out of my control. That's done well as I got
I got lucky on the narrators. Like every series I've
ever had, my narrator has been awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Yeah. The fact that he's yeah again it is an
individual human doing all of this, but he has distinct
personalities for everyone based on your writing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
When you be done with Monster Hunter, the Grim Noir,
that's the three book that starts with Hard Magic, the
narrator on that is Bronson Pinch Show. Oh yeah, yeah, dude,
he is so good. Yeah. We actually won the audi
which is like the Oscars for audiobooks. We we won

(01:11:39):
that for the first two books in that series, and
he won Best Actor and yeah slated he did, and
he does like a full cast audio play. He does
all the voices and accents and and this is a
dude who upstaged Eddie Murphy at the height of Eddie
Murphy's career. You know he is. He's a hoot man.
That's awesome. He's fun and a pro. As you do.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
You get to interact with.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Them a little bit. So I've never met him in person,
but like whenever, like he'll be doing all my books,
He'll he'll read the book and then he'll send me
this giant email asking questions. Yeah, and because Bronson is
not a gun person, So when you're listening to hard Magic,
there's going to be a line that's going to slay
you because it's a thirty Uh, I can't remember an

(01:12:24):
he gives a thirty out six, which to all of
us we just do three zero dash. We all know
thirty out six. Yeah, as a thirty thirty zero six
and uh and I and I read that. It's like
the thing is that he I didn't think to explain
that to him, and he didn't think to ask, you know,
because they just never computed.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
You know that there would be a thing well, I
do remember. I think it was in the first book,
the ac O g site akug.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Yep. Because Ali Wyman is not a gun guy either. Yeah,
And so there'll be themes where he'll be like, he'll
send me it's the same thing. He's like, you'll have
questions like what's this, what's this? How do you because
there are a lot of things that we take for granted,
like completely you know, I mean some of them you
could go either way like fall or f a L.
No one's gonna freak out if you get there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
I don't know which one it is, but no one's
gonna say.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
A U G yeah, yeah, you know my my au G. No, no, no,
And so yeah we are an an f N s
C A R. Oh. But there's uh there there's I've
actually I've been tempted to put remember the guys, remember

(01:13:35):
that old f N f N a ar Remember that
weird like it was a Browning b a R hunting rifle,
but there was that version. I should put that in
a book just to see what the narrator calls it
a FNAR.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Now that's now that's bullying. Now that's.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
I mean, like like less than one percent of the
population would get that the way. That's funny, you know,
but uh, you know most people, you know whatever. But
uh now usually they're they're they're really cool. And I've
been like and I got to do uh Tom's Ranger
with Adam Baldwin and he is he is he is
among our.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
People really oh yeah yeah yeah he's not that Baldwin family.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah, like no relations.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
He's very very very libertarian, very politically. His dad was
actually a college professor and like like a like a
very intellectual man. Adam is super smart. So I love
working with him and he remember him from My Bodyguard.
Oh yeah, he was like a kid.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
Yeah, yeah, he was a little jacket that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Now, but he he knows how to shoot, like and
he's uh, he's not as good nutty as us, but
like he he knows that he's proficient. He knows this stuff.
The good dude just good dudes. Like getting to work
with him was was that was fun? Yeah, yeah, like
generally fun guy. I mean, so there are some people
in this business who aren't.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
Idiots, Yeah, oh absolutely, But even the narrator, the narrators
that are not well versed, man, do they do.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
A good job. Oh yeah, they're I mean a lot
of them are just really really professional. I mean they
take it super serious. They don't phone it in. There
are some guys who phone it in, but most part
they for them, they take this as serious as anybody
appearing in a movie. They're just trying to give it
their best performance they can.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Yeah, do you know what their timelinees like? Like from
when they.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Get a script to when they are a book, from
when it's depends on on the Because some of them
are cleaner in that they did they require less takes,
like apparently I made it really hard on Adam Baldwin
because he was trying to read the comedy series, and
so they had to do a lot of takes because
he's playing a real dead pan narrator, real dead pan character,

(01:15:57):
real serious in this like hyper absurd sci fi comedy,
and so he would like read a line and then
just start snort laughing, and they'd have to like go
back and do it again and again, and I mean
just de fence like like Tim Garard Reynolds is one
of my narrators for the saga. I forgot to ordering.
The last audiobook hasn't come out yet, even the book
has just because like we started ten years ago. When

(01:16:19):
we did this ten years ago, he was a good
narrator and he was kind of in demand. He was popular,
but he wasn't like a superstar. Ten years later, he's
like one of the top top dudes in the business.
So you have to book him a year and a
half out to get an audiobook done because he's just
that in demand. Yeah. So I mean, I mean, the

(01:16:42):
guy is like like he's like the Raw Blatham of
you know, audio books. I mean, I'm dating myself here
for how old I am. I guess it'll be Oh, yeah,
you guys know what I mean. You know what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
Yeah, my buddy Vard wrote a couple of books and
did the narration for it. I could not even imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
It's hard. I've only thein narration I've done has been
like for intros, like like I've gone into the studio
and done the intros to books, and even just reading
two pages was hard, like like and sounding good and
like I would read something. I would read a paragraph
and I think I'd soundly like really cool, and then
the guy, the audio engineer be like, let's try that again,

(01:17:24):
try try to sound less dorky. Yes, And it's like,
I don't know if I can.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
So, speaking of dorky, Star Wars Star Treker both.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
All Star Wars, because I could go off for a
two hour podcast on my issues with the new one,
with the newer ones. As a professional writer, I've never
been a Star Trek guy. I mean, I've watched enough
that I get it, but I don't really I've never
really been into it. I got some buddies that are
super hardcore trickies, but yeah, Star Wars, I mean it

(01:18:03):
was funny though, because I was making fun of the
new Star Wars movies when they came out, and I
was just like picking up potholes and some random person
on the internet didn't know who I was, and they're like, well,
if you think you could write a better story, why
don't you? And I was like period in my sleep,
as like I think at that point is like I
was like a twenty four or twenty five books, like

(01:18:24):
I've done it twenty four times. That's right, that's right. Play.
The part that sucks is when they rebooted Star Wars.
I was talking to I probably shouldn name him. I
might get him in trouble because he's not out of
the closet politically. I was talking to this other writer
who's a really popular he's more popular than me, very
famous writer. He writes a lot of action stuff, and

(01:18:45):
we were talking when the new Star Wars came out,
and he goes, you know what really sucks, Larry, is
if this had been ten years ago or twenty years ago,
guys like me and you would have been the first
dudes they called to write this stuff on the rebet
and and then you look at who they got now
and it's like people who didn't know their but from
a hole in the ground on action. They couldn't write heroes,

(01:19:08):
they couldn't write villains, they couldn't write danger, they can't
write adventure to save their lives. And as guys who
do write really good adventure stuff, we were like toxic waste.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
Well, and what I wanted to point out also was
they were they hired people that didn't know the source material, which.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
Is baffling to me because I've written I've written short
stories for like Alien Predator, a bunch of different ips,
you know, Like I wrote a couple of novels for
war Machine, like v Wars was a Netflix show. I
wrote stuff for all of these, and every single one

(01:19:48):
I did my homework first, even for a short story
and which I discovered on Aliens. I'm the guy who
actually got to write the story of the M forty
one Pulse Rifle. Yes, I wrote the official canonical history
of the pulse rifle, and which is a gun nut,
you know. It's so so I get asked to be
this alien's anthology. It's like official, and they're like everybody

(01:20:13):
else is like writing all these colonial marine adventure stories,
and they come in to me and he's like well, Larry,
what do you want to write? I was like, I
want to write basically the tales of the gun episode
or Forgotten Weapons episode, you know, of the history of
the pulse rifle. And they're like what and like, trust me,
all the gun nuts will think it's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
And you know Ian right, yeah, he should be doing this.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
One of the one of the very first episodes of
Forgotten Weapons on on YouTube is Ian reviewing Monster Hunter International.
Oh wow, kid, you not? You can? You can look
that up on YouTube. Yes, So this is like, this
is like before, way before he got famous me cause

(01:21:00):
he's got like millions of watchers now. I mean, he's
such a and he is and I love saying this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
How he portrays himself online, that's him in person.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
He's a genuinely nice guy and he is a gun nerdy.
He just loves this stuff, truly.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
So what were your thoughts about Alien Romulus's Pulse Rifle.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
I didn't watch Romulus yet. I haven't seen it. Yeah,
I'm a slacker.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
There was very interesting aspect that I kind of thought,
that's kind of that's kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
I'll have to watch it. And I was really disappointed
when they did the other the other Prometheus or whatever
came off the provision and the the gun, and that
was just an owed. It was just an a with
some stuff on it. And I was like, I mean,
come on, man, that's just lazy. That's just lazy. We
the pulse rifle was so in aug which which my

(01:21:59):
son has already fund. He's getting me one for one
of these days when he makes more money. He's getting
me one for Christmas, just because of how many times
we watched Diehard together.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Yeah, so I have one.

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
Uh it's a cool rifle. The safety sucks, yeah, horrendous.
Oh man, it's so bad. I got a I got
a VHS two or the helliot, you know. Yeah, and
it's actually a great gun. Except man, somebody needs to
make an aftermarket trigger for that thing. Because that if
any guys know, anybody at Springfield, Uh, I just get

(01:22:30):
get Apex. You call Scott at Apex. Get somebody to
make a trigger for this thing that's not eight and
a half pounds.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
Yeah, because it's a responsibilities. You might have just told them.
So here we got here, we are.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
Man that trigger because who's it? Somebody makes a to
war trigger that's actually good. I don't know if it's
Geisly or somebody. Somebody makes a to war trigger. I tried, yeah,
is that warn?

Speaker 5 (01:22:56):
I think it's guys, because like my buddy Steve, my
old editor, he uh he got one. I'm pretty sure
it's a ky Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
I remember trying one of the one of the odd
trigger or one of the one of the war triggers,
I think, and it was it was. It was actually
it felt like a decent a r trigger. I was.
I was shocked. Watchally that RBD or that our r
f D or whatever, whether the celticket is I have
for three or eight. It's actually got a decent trigger.

(01:23:24):
But that thing does not run. It is I mean
I bought it just kind of on a whim because
it was such a weird design, the forward dejecting thing.
And it's fun to take to the range and people
think it's really super fun and cool and you can
show the new guys and the brass is falling out
the front, but it's malfunction junction and uh clear clearing

(01:23:45):
clearing mouths, and that thing is like basically just you
gotta unload and reload to clear anything. It's uh so
it's cool, but it's a cool range toy. Yeah, well
I'll say on that.

Speaker 6 (01:23:57):
Gun and yeah, the NSG because if you really, if
you really try to like run that gun hard, you
will tear the shit out of your fingers with how
the internals.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
Work, and probably it's gonna break.

Speaker 4 (01:24:13):
Yeah, yeah, probably, But I gotta jump off. I gotta
get it early.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
Lovely talking to guys. Yeah see see, yeah that being
said at the early whatever is a primary and secondary.
Ten years ago, when I started, we had such a
focus on duty quality and we've since. I had hiccock
on a month ago and we talked about it's okay

(01:24:39):
to have fun guns, so okay to enjoy things. Not
everything has to be life dependent. On my wall, I
have things that, yeah, they're not going to be life dependent,
but I sure enjoy them.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
Yeah. I mean I have some guns, like by carry guns.
If I'm carrying a gun, it's something that I genuinely like.
I know I can beat the crap out of it
and run it hard and it'll be fine. But most
of my guns, I mean, I'm only going to carry
one gun at a time. Uh, And I don't. I mean,
I'm like I said, I'm an office guy. I mean,
I'm not living a high speed lifetile here and now

(01:25:11):
I have I have a few ars that are like
I could beat the crap out of those. And you know,
I have like Sons of Liberty or Daniel Defense, and
I have a JP comp gun. I mean, that's stuff
that that's it's really nice. But the thing is, I
like going to the range with my kids and and
or I like going like I I teach the young

(01:25:33):
men and my my word to shoot. And I've been
doing that for years because I'm the one guy in
the area that's got his own range, right, So I've
been teaching kids for years. And it's fun to put
out the picnic table of guns.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
Yes, absolutely, I do that for the PD on occasions.
Here's amo, go shoot, go enjoy it, get to know
it as especially.

Speaker 1 (01:25:54):
I mean, but I am I am I ever going
to use most of these seriously, So, I mean some
of these I don't even know own holsters for I mean,
I mean, no, I'm not. Well except that's I said,
the it brought to you by the filter, by the
filster floodlight.

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
You know that's right, that's right. So what's your uh
what about shotguns? Oh, what's your preference?

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
Yeah, oh I know. Okay, So my favorite, my favorite
traditional semiati is gonna be a bread of thirteen oh one.
I've got a I have this one thirteen oh one
that I got the I got the the maritime you know,
the shining Oh yes, and it is awesome and I
got it all radised out as yep, yep adam. I'll

(01:26:34):
appreciate that. Yeah, I'm running. I'm running a let's say
I ran it through Matt Hott's class. Just a fantastic gun.
I actually with that gun at the time. I think
somebody's beat me since because you know, he's got the
Simtech Challenge coin and he's got two times for it.
He's got the pump shotgun time, the Semiato shotgun time
that they set. The problem is there's like I want

(01:26:56):
to say, there's like fourteen guys I've got the pump
shotgun one, but only one guy has ever got the
Semiauto one because the time is so much tighter on
Somato because when they were testing this, they ran like
hundreds of drills to see kind of like what the
times were to like master master time. But the thing
is in class, there's only been one dude of the

(01:27:17):
Semiato had ever hit this, and so at the time,
I actually had the second fastest run they've ever had
on a simtech coin run with that thirteen oh one,
and I didn't make it. I still missed it by
like on time, by like that, because it's a slug drill.
It's it's it's a it's a multiple target slug drill,
speed reload and and and she start you start short stalking. Yeah,

(01:27:39):
so it's it's a challenging drill. And I ran that
sucker fast and I missed it by that much. But uh,
I love that thirteen oh one. That is a great gun.
And then mag fed. I mean, I love my Sega,
but like as far as reliability, I like the Gen twelve.
Love I got one Gen twelve. I got the little
shorty and uh, I think it's a I think it's
a ten inch And that thing is awesome. That's the

(01:28:02):
John Wick flamethrower shotgun. You know that thing is so cool.
And then pump. Actually, I'm an old eight seventy guy.
I have an eight seventy. I got an eight seventy
when I was ten years old. My dad. My dad
got me an a seventy wing Master when I was ten.
I still have it. That is actually my highest round

(01:28:23):
count and gun that I own because in all the
years I was doing three gun and I was a
match director, it was my loaner for people. So I
would have guys, you'd show up without a shotgun and
it'd be like here you go, or I'd be running.
And so I ran this thing, and ran this thing,
and ran this thing and ran this thing for years,
and so I don't really shoot it much anymore. I've

(01:28:44):
replaced every small part on this gun. I couldn't tell
you it's a great, great gun, but I mean it's
kind of semi retired now and it's just sits in
the safe because it's you know, my gun has last
ten And then my dad, my dad was an A
seven guy and his was a nineteen fifty I want
to say nineteen fifty seven production, and so we were

(01:29:06):
on the old Remington versus Mossburg thing.

Speaker 5 (01:29:08):
We were.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
We were an eight seventy family. You know, my grandpa,
my Portuguese grandpa, was an illegal sawt off shotgun. Uh
oh yeah, yeah. Because it is funny because the true
story here and and then and once again it's this
it's this has all been taken care of ITF and
so you know this is everything has been destroyed. And

(01:29:30):
you know, my grandpa was an old farmer and e
didn't care. So one time he drove, he had his
shotgun and leaning against the back of the pickup forgot
it was there. You know, farmers used him costs, and
he backed the truck up over and bent the barrel.
And so he just took hacksaw right behind where the
bind was and hacked it off at like probably about
twelve inches. And Grandpa thought that was super handy. So

(01:29:51):
that's just a you know, super open shoe, right, and
ran that for years and years and years and years.
And actually it took generations for me to be the
like the first gun that in the family, long after
my grandpa passed away and my dad passed away. Now,
so there you go, ATF, everybody evolved is dead, ye
to come in to be like look at through Grandpa's

(01:30:11):
all stuff and you like, wait a minute, hey, dad,
I got some I got some bad news for you
about the number of fellonies you have in the closet.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
Fortunately, though with e forums, it'll be approven in just
a couple of days.

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
It shouldn't even be regulated. Yeah, it's so dumb, especially
with with pistol braces. I mean we're all.

Speaker 5 (01:30:36):
Having I mean, oh good, yeah, Oh. I think that
was monstrably. What kind of changed a lot of people's
mind was how dumb that was and how dumb the
ATF was about it. So there was that first year
we were at shot. That was what I was writing
for police marksmen. And I probably still have a mark
here on my shirt where my editor was trying to
pull me away from the ATF booth because I was

(01:30:57):
getting into it. They had they got the supervisor, they
got one of the attorneys, and he said something the
effect of, well, there's a lot more letters. You really
should do your research, and I was like, freedom.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
It's so dumb. It's the whole SBR SBS brace thing
is just the dumbest demonstration of just the dumbness of
our laws.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
If we had dumb people actually regulating, we wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
Have these because it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 5 (01:31:22):
It doesn't does any have some more hope?

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
I always have now, I mean and changing I help.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
Man, I I would, I would. I've been as a gun,
I've been kicked, I've been kicked when I'm down too
many times, you get my hopes up too much. State level,
we're kicking butt across America. So I mean some states
are still really dumb, and I mean my heart goes
out to the guys that are living Colorado.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
The new stuff over in Colorado, semi auto rifles.

Speaker 5 (01:31:56):
Just reading that some smauto period back walks. My magazines
cannot be transferred sold. Whatever it's on the governor's desk,
he's gonna sign it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
You know. It's so stupid too, because it's completely unenforceable stuff.
I mean, I talked about the ind defense of the Secondmendment.
Gun control is functionally dead as far as like pragmatically
enforcing it, and they don't care because it's not about
pragmatically enforcing it. I mean, three D printing killed all
this stuff long ago, and they they haven't even caught
up yet that it's a thing. I feel bad for

(01:32:27):
Colorado because most of Colorado is sane.

Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
I just printed an MP seven I'm not print that
was a three D printed plastic thing for a ged
Joe sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
Yeah. Now, if we could just if we could just
get affordable four point seven AM off that thing. Yeah now,
Colorado is nuts. And the sad thing is most of
Colorado's saying like most of Colorado is normal, most of
the talents in Colorado, I mean honestly anymore. Yeah, it's

(01:33:01):
just it's it's it's it's that's that Central Boulder, you know,
Colorado Springs, Denver, you know, corridor of craziness. But yeah,
I mean, I've known a lot. I know so many
gun guys from Colorado, and I feel so bad for
him because it's just such bull crap. California I was.
I grew up in California and I avoid it like
the plague. I never My mom lives there and I

(01:33:23):
never co visit.

Speaker 5 (01:33:26):
But yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
Oh, I was just gonna say, even us here in
Utah we have Salt Lake, and salt Lake is a
train wreck.

Speaker 5 (01:33:35):
Yeah, well anywhere, and that's what's that's what's spooky about Colorado. Yeah,
it can happen so fat that that happened in like
a year, two years.

Speaker 1 (01:33:45):
In Texas, it's not red like we're Oklahoma.

Speaker 5 (01:33:47):
We're in really really good shape. We've got seventy seven
red counties out of seventy seven and always.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
Have but which is awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:33:55):
Which is awesome. But I still give my ten bucks
a month to Oklahoma, to a Okay, to a I
just got a bill today. I'm like, keep going and
it keeps that's why you're doing it. We're good. No,
there's no such thing as good. I'll yeah, I've got
to get to I've got to get their ship together.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
I'll be in Oklahoma. I'll be in Oklahoma later this
year taking a class at meat Hall.

Speaker 5 (01:34:18):
Yeah, make sure and give Bill a little bit of
a hard time. He I think he's had it too
easy lately. Yes, nobody give.

Speaker 1 (01:34:24):
Him much threatened me. I need to go there. I do.

Speaker 5 (01:34:27):
It's great. Oh, it's a great Bacilion. Bill's Bill is great.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:34:30):
Yeah, it's so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:34:31):
He brings us some good instructors. But I like, I
actually like going to Oklahoma. That's one of the states
I enjoy going to. So uh yeah, I he he
can twist my arm and get me to go take
classes there pretty easily.

Speaker 5 (01:34:43):
Which one you take it again?

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
Uh? That one. I'm gonna do the pistol training. I'm
doing the.

Speaker 5 (01:34:47):
Globe yeah yeah, gullup, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
I'm saying it wrong and glup. Uh yeah, I'm gonna
take a shot at a fast coin.

Speaker 5 (01:34:57):
That's awesome, which is.

Speaker 1 (01:34:59):
One of those that I've done it. I have done
it at my house, you know, you know, the twice
in a row, sub five. I've done it on video.
I have it on video that I've done it. But
we all know, doing it at the end of a
class with the pressure on and twenty people watching you
after after being burned out from a couple of days

(01:35:19):
of shooting is totally different than doing it at your house,
you know. Oh yeah, But I I I got I
gotta give it. I got to give it a shot,
and so I'm looking forward to that. I never, I
never got to do it. I never. I never got
to meet Todd Green, and then I never, I know,

(01:35:39):
I procrastinated taking a class when Ernest Langdon was teaching it,
So I never and I and I waited too long,
and then he retired.

Speaker 5 (01:35:47):
Yeah, and ILAND knew Todd online or four years and
he helped he helped me with a couple of articles,
and he was always always so cool, always so helpful,
so cool, And I never even hesitated in that same thing.
I ever went and got at one of the classes.
And then that's what happened. The same thing with pat Rogers.

Speaker 2 (01:36:03):
Pat Rogers was one you know, you got to take
the classes, Yes, you did. I hosted him multiple years.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
Yeah, I mean that's the thing these guys are. These
guys are human and they're they're fountains and knowledge, but man,
they're they're human and then they ye know, there's only
so much time, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
Yeah, but with that mind, there's also so much time
for us on our on our schedules to try to
fit everything in.

Speaker 5 (01:36:31):
That's why you have the protegees and you bring out
the guns and on the picnic table.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:36:35):
I got one of my uh, one of my protegees,
my my main one names Wendy Taylor. She's going to
Mead Hall to do the Range Master Instructor and she's
kind of worked her way up through it. She hadn't
she had she had hardly ever shot a hand out
in her life. And then she went through my an
entire program, my instructor program, and now she's going to
Range Master. She's gonna rocket and somebody's gonna that. Somebody's

(01:36:56):
gonna who's going to carry that on? You know, because
she's she's been the attack.

Speaker 1 (01:37:00):
And that's one I've I've never done rage faster.

Speaker 5 (01:37:04):
It's good stuff. And you really only do instruct this
stuff with Tom these days a keel and is uh,
I'm just doing most of the defensive pencil classes. But
he's amazing too.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
I can tiff dynamic.

Speaker 5 (01:37:19):
They're amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
Yeah, yeah they are.

Speaker 5 (01:37:21):
Yeah, great, great human beings too, Just amazing folks.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
Yeah, it's yeah, there's opportunities and like you just got
to kind of balance like because it just takes time.
It just takes time, and it's a pay money and money.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's ther We better we better tacked
our you. If our wives are watching this, we better
tack the money part on we have. That's a serious consideration.

Speaker 5 (01:37:46):
A good thing is classically costing about a hundred dollars apiece.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
Yeah yeah, yeah, totally is a great deal.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
Hotel for you's free.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
Yeah, honey, if you're watching this, I did. I just
trade a couple of autographed books and it's good to
go whatever. My wife knows, she knows, she knows.

Speaker 5 (01:38:04):
And she don't care either, because I got my own
credit card. She's like, that's your problem. You get an allowance,
you got to pay it off, figure it out.

Speaker 1 (01:38:10):
That's what I say, I don't get too greedy as
far as what I put off as business expenses for research,
but a Mike allay, if something actually appears in the
book and it's like well researched, they could in you
and I can demonstrate from my audience they demand accuracy, as.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
I say, like this, Uh so what Walther, what Walther
were you talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:38:29):
I got the PDP pro x. So I picked up
a PDP pro x because this is like, my God,
I said it was gonna be my go fast gun
for the year. I guess I changed. I changed guns
every couple of years. And uh but I'm doing this
graphic novel right now, and so the main character this
is this is now his gun, and so this is research.

(01:38:50):
This is important research.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
I'm texting Gens right now at Walter.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
Oh really okay, yeah, so tell them that my new
series with ARC this is the main character's hand.

Speaker 2 (01:38:59):
Good.

Speaker 5 (01:39:00):
Uh that other the.

Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
Other points it's it's I don't know that the main
character is a vigilante who also takes care of supernatural thing.
So I don't know if that's something they're gonna be
like into that could be.

Speaker 5 (01:39:14):
Well about the Germans, come on, really, they're real quiet
about their marketing, but it's so effective the way they
do it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:23):
Yeah, so I threw that in there, like like well
in the gen the Gen twelve was abomination Generation two
basically you know, uh, for the next two books. No, honestly,
I shoot the crap out of I shoot the crap
out of stuff that's gonna be main character guns. I
usually will get one and then shoot the shoot the
hell out of it before it winds up being a

(01:39:44):
because main character guns are almost a character in themselves
in my stuff, which sounds super nerdy, but uh, you know,
our people appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
It's not nerdy though, because we can identify as matter
of fact, I remember listening to portion of the book
and kind of figuring out, okay, this is the direction
it's going. Yep, it did exactly it's described. It's like, okay,
this is what's coming next.

Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
Later in the series, Owen needs a precision rifle and
so he winds up with the JP Enterprises l r
P three or eight. And it's funny because it so
JP Enterprises. I actually got together with those days, great dudes,
and actually and it's called the Kaza Door and so
we actually built the Kazador and you could still buy
a JP Enterprises Cazador and so it's basically it was

(01:40:32):
it was the gun from the book and they just
did that as a as a catalog item and uh
which was which was pretty which was pretty cool, and
that that was that was meet. Not a lot of
writers get signature guns from a fictional novel made by
the actual gun company.

Speaker 5 (01:40:51):
Yeah, I've got I've got the customer. Good customer too, though.

Speaker 1 (01:40:57):
Yeah, it's this c I I actually have Owen's STI
the lung slide. They built that for me. They in fact,
because a bunch of guys in the custom shop were fans.
And the serial number on the gun is m h
I PG two whatever page number that that gun shows
up in the book, which is holaciously cool. Now that

(01:41:23):
one is a safe queen because they went nuts on it,
like they they they dick this thing out and so
that is when I shoot occasionally. But it's actually a
pretty gun that I'm not going to beat the hell
out of. I have a Earl Harbinger's Model six twenty five,
so Scott Folk Apex made me Earl Harbingers six five

(01:41:46):
and it is gorgeous. This thing is so pretty and
I shoot it like once a year. Yeah, and then
I and then I bullets, no that would be accurate,
and it goes back in the box and he said,
it's in a nice wooden box and it's got custom
grips that then I don't even shoot it with the

(01:42:07):
custom grips on it. I shoot it with like my
Manharin rubbing rubber grips on it. And then then I
put the actual pretty beautiful wood grips that have a
medallion that has them the puff Exept mcdallion in the
grip right laminated in there, and uh, it's absolutely gorgeous.
And uh I normally you guys gonna say most of

(01:42:28):
my guns look like crap. Like I beat the crap
out of my guns. Uh, all my all my ars
are rattle canned. All my ars, I just rattle can them.
And I'm not like a professional gun painter, Like they
get thrown down on a board. I tape up the
optics and anything you know with numbers on it that
I don't want to cover. And then it's just you know,

(01:42:49):
with like three or four cans of paint and just
make patterns and call it good. But like like like
the the JP, the S T I and the and
the and uh cost six twenty five. No, those things
you can't. No, yeah, those are those are in the
safe looking pretty.

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
So when your rattle candle rattle canning, are you using anything?
You're throwing down leaves? I personally like the the laundry
bag that gives the snake skin.

Speaker 1 (01:43:21):
I've I've I've done laundry bag, and I've done just
grass and twigs. Yeah, thrown down you just throw it
on in spray. Yeah. And then some have just done
you know, just.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
Task lines and yeah, yeah it all looks great.

Speaker 1 (01:43:35):
I just go down to tractor supply where they got
a great big selection of spray paint, and I like
go through and I'll look like, like, which one of
these are proximately the color of my ground?

Speaker 5 (01:43:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:43:48):
It's actually fun. I have fun with it. And I
have I have a few guns that are like ars.
They were just too pretty not to not to do.
So I've built an arrow precision to own with, like
the because they had the so this back when you
could actually get aero precision parts from Aero Precision and uh,
they had like the bronze color and they had the

(01:44:09):
black and so it's like it's half black, half bronze, alternating,
and it came out really pretty normally. I've Rattlecay my
work in ars and I'm like, yeah, that one's gonna stay.
That one's okay. I'm not gonna mess with that one.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
Well, I have a Hodge Mod two, which it's a
twelve five gun.

Speaker 1 (01:44:27):
I thought, that's staying black.

Speaker 2 (01:44:29):
That's staying Yeah, And I think it's a I think
it's a personal offense. I think Jim told me it's
a personal offense if I spray painted stuff. So okay,
So as things progress in the gun world, Julie Shackelford
has a M fourteen basically an one A and those

(01:44:52):
I wrote this book.

Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
Exactly two thousand and I started writing this book in
two thousand and seven exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
And in two thousand and seven that was that was
a freaking cool rifle.

Speaker 1 (01:45:02):
Well, you really only had basically three three eight semi
autos on them. Yeah, get to choose from and.

Speaker 2 (01:45:09):
I have several writer, Yeah, your JW threes, your fal's
are foul.

Speaker 1 (01:45:14):
Uh, and then the fourteen and I U and I
and other characters used the G three and the f
al in the in the same book. Ye and so yeah,
and so the N fourteen and honestly, at the time
of the three, that was the one you can make
the most accurate. Yeah so so yeah and so. But
I noticed in the in the in the last one
she actually had a because she was going for actually

(01:45:35):
she has actually running a six point five uh JP
in the last one. So in AR ten, that was
my questions.

Speaker 2 (01:45:43):
My question is, as you see trends change, does do
those change as well.

Speaker 1 (01:45:49):
One thing about long running novel series and that it's
it's so hard because you write the first book with
whatever the current technology is at the time. In the
first book, Owen's cell phone is a BlackBerry. Yeah, yeah,
you know, little of keyboard. Yeah, because at the time
the I worked for, the BlackBerry was like our our

(01:46:09):
our issued phone at the at the at the military
contracting company I worked for, the BlackBerry was the hotness, right,
And uh as time goes on, I don't even know
if they're in business now, you know what I mean?
And uh so you just so the problem with the
long running novel series is is we can't write them
as fast as time passes. And so that is definitely

(01:46:34):
a thing. And so you just got to kind of
have so readers have some mercy on us. We we
we work with what's available at the time, you know.
But yeah, like I actually I think m one A's
are fun guns. That is one of those that goes
on the wall of fun guns, you know, for the
picnic cable fundus. I actually really like to shoot m
n as. I got an n n A in the safe.

(01:46:57):
But if I was gonna take a gun to to
to beat the crap out of no, yeah, I'm not gonna. No,
I'm not not gonna. I'm not gonna run pust Mountain
optics on. It sucks and you know, but fun to
shoot people. A lot of people get like super snooty

(01:47:18):
and pure and like, well, it's not the most reliable thing,
you know, it's not. But you know, I'm not. I'm
not like, Look, guys, I guess let's be honest. We
own dozens and dozens and I don't want to say
how many guns. You know, A lot even if even
if we have the apocalypse tomorrow, I'm not gonna be

(01:47:38):
able to run through all of them.

Speaker 2 (01:47:40):
I don't have AMMO for everything. Okay, I do have
several boxes of four fifty five we Yes, but oh.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
Hell yeah yeah. I actually you should use the Webley
on day one just for style points. Cool. We is awesome. Cool. Well,
I mean I've got yeah, I've got a I've got
a Smith and Wesson in nineteen seventeen, like the Border Patrol.
I have a Border Patrol nineteen seventeen. Yeah. I almost
never shoot that thing because that's a that's a classic.

(01:48:12):
You know, it's fun. It's a fun gun. But I'm
not gonna I'm not going to shoot that thing, especially
with modern AMA, which is much higher pressure than what
it is what it was originally made for, and so no,
I don't. Oh wow, that is a great wall. So yeah,
nineteen oh three above the cult Woodsman. That's when I

(01:48:34):
that that gets treated nicely. Yeah, there's something you just
have and you just treat with respect. Okay. I have
one gun I will never sell because it is not
a good gun. It's a Ruger P ninety one and
forty cow oh wow, that's yeah. Yeah. But it was
my first center fire handgun I got for myself and

(01:49:00):
why because at the time in Guns magazine it was
the hotness, right and knowing what I know now, the
trigger pull on. That thing is garbage, and the ergonomics
are garbage, and the mag releases garbage. But by golly,
I'll never get rid of that gun because that was
my first That was my first serious, serious pistol back

(01:49:21):
when I didn't know what I didn't know, and I
took it to my first I d P A match
and realized real fast that.

Speaker 2 (01:49:31):
I am I the only one Karen one of these.

Speaker 1 (01:49:33):
Yeah, that was a clue. And oh and I had
it in a you're gonna laugh at this, and Uncle
Mike's nylon bag holster that had the thumb strap. Without
the thumb strap, the gun falls.

Speaker 2 (01:49:46):
Right out thet I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
What I didn't know, And I went to my first match,
actually my first match ever our shot and was a
like a local steel challenge match because at the time
I actually thought I was a good shooter, because I
only shot with my friends who were all worse than me,
none of that. You know what. It's what I didn't

(01:50:10):
realize at the time is it wasn't that I was good,
It was that they were that bad. And so my, my, my, my.
This is long before I had any concept of what
good shooting looked like.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
Yeah, I don't think most police officers know what that
looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
Oh man, uh, you know, not to bag on cops because,
as you guys know, there's a lot of cops that
either the best shooters you can find are the worst
because you get the guys you take it real serious,
and it's like they're gonna work and they're gonna train,
and they're gonna they're gonna learn and grow, and they're
they're humble, and also they got some taxpayer funded damo.
They're gonna shoot that, but they're gonna supplement it on

(01:50:45):
their own. They're gonna dry fire. You know, they're gonna learn.
But then you got the other guys that like, I'm
God's gift to man and I am a massively awesome
shooter because I carry a gun every.

Speaker 2 (01:50:56):
Day in my you know, and they shoot it once
a year.

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
Yeah. Oh, we had we had a guy uh in
Utah a long time ago in our local IDP A
club and three gun club, and it was his nice guy.
His name was John John Lowe and he looked kind
of like a young Barry mantelup right, and just just
a nice guy, very innocuous looking, and he was one

(01:51:21):
of the mass directors, and so me and him took
terms of being the three gun match director for a
few years. And we had one time a bunch of
cops came out and we had a bunch of cops
to shot with us all the time, especially like Saltate
County Sheriff's deputies. We had several of those guys, really
good shooters, good guise, and we had a bunch of
local cops, but but they were like the one department
gun nutt, you know what I mean. So we had

(01:51:42):
this bunch of guys come up and I don't remember
who they were from, but they were they were SWAT
team together, and they came and they wanted to shoot
this IDP a match. And we always told it when
we had new guys and we're friends, you know, they
wanted to squad up together, we'd make sure they had
a couple of experienced shooters with them to just you know,
keep everything run and keep him safe, you know, keep
him you know, moving smooth. And who guys who knew

(01:52:03):
the rules. And so I asked John, would John, would
you you know, would you run with these guys be there?
Roh and uh, you know, and John's like, yeah, sure, no,
John's great guy, and to keep on. These guys are
the squat team. So they shot and and John was
a master class shooter and smoked him just all day long.
And he was just he wasn't trying to smoke him.
He was just shooting his normal having a good time,

(01:52:26):
and he was babysitting, you know, he was teaching people.
He was scoring targets and and running timers and smokes them,
destroys them, like every stage of the day, just obliterates
these cops. And they were having a hard time with like, wow,
like we suck because John was so much better. And
we had a lot of guys who were like, you know, uh,

(01:52:47):
master level shooters. End of the day, they're talking to
John and they're like, so, who you know, Like who
are you with? Like what what agency have you trained with?
And he John's like, I'm not I'm not a copy
And they're like.

Speaker 2 (01:52:59):
Well maybe sealed Delta Force.

Speaker 1 (01:53:01):
Yeah, you like military, like you know Special Forces or
you know, and and and He's like, no, I've never
been in the military. I'm just a civilian. I just
I just like to shoot. Well what do you what
do you do for a living? He goes, well, I'm
a hairdresser, shattered their self esteem and you could see,

(01:53:21):
you could see on their faces where they all went.
You know, it just it was like you you it's
just and and And the thing is, I think most
of them didn't come back. I think I think of
those guys like one guy came back and got the
bug and kept going and getting better. But but but
most of them didn't come back, you know, because it
had damaged like their worldview that this this nice guy,

(01:53:45):
this quiet, little innocuous guy just could obliterate them. Yeah,
you know, and you.

Speaker 5 (01:53:53):
See that all the time in training, No, we met,
We can see it all the time. You get these
guys got these they got their sunk costs into what
they think is real, what they think is legit.

Speaker 2 (01:54:03):
Let me introduce you to hear.

Speaker 5 (01:54:04):
It's just a it's just a it's just a fight.
After that's just no, it's not true, not sure, not true,
not true. Well oh.

Speaker 1 (01:54:11):
Yeah, did you say Tim Herron.

Speaker 2 (01:54:13):
Yeah, let me introduce you to Tim Herron.

Speaker 1 (01:54:15):
He doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:54:15):
He was a mechanic prior to this.

Speaker 1 (01:54:17):
He doesn't. Tim Tim Herron looks like a just normal guy.

Speaker 2 (01:54:21):
But then you see a normal peenage boy, he's not.

Speaker 1 (01:54:25):
I mean, I mean he I think I think Tim
Herron probably weighs about as much as my legs, you know,
like I am a giant dude, and uh but yeah,
but then you see him shoot and it's like, wow, holy.

Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
Holy, one of those glock switches on there?

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
What what you know? He's just he just goes after
except did he glock switches with the nineteen eleven? I
mean the guy, like, you watch him shoot and it's
absolutely astounding. I don't know. So I think the guys
should actually get good or guys are humble enough to
recognize that we do suck and it's so hey, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:01):
It is perfectly okay, embrace it. That's how you're gonna
get better.

Speaker 5 (01:55:05):
We we we.

Speaker 1 (01:55:07):
And the thing is, it's like I was watching a
video the other day and it was not shooting, but
it was jiu jitsu, right, and it was it's like
one of those reels on those Facebook where they would
just like like rip other people's content off. And the
video was this guy who was a guy about my size,
and he was a brown belt and he was wrestling
a guy who goes by Mighty Mouse, right, So that's

(01:55:28):
one of the best fighters of all time. But I
want to say he's like one hundred and forty pounds
here or something like that. He's not a big guy,
and they had a great match and then you know, uh,
mighty mouse wins. But the headline or you know, he
makes it, he submit, he submits the other guy. But then,
like the headline on the bullcrap reel was like giant
fighter humbled by a little Guy's like whoa, whoa, whoa,

(01:55:48):
Oh no, no, that he's a brown belt. He has
been humbled a thousand times, you know, And you take
that with anybody who's like a like a like a
like a high level shooter. We've been humble the thousand times.
You know. It's just we've all done it. We've all
screwed up, and we know it. We've screwed up in

(01:56:09):
front of our friends. And uh but man, most people
that I think, the people who don't be good, is
like they have this ego like involved And that's why
we always joke on the internet. It's like I've been
shooting my whole life. I grew up around guns, and
I qualified expert. That's like the holy trinity of bull crap.

(01:56:32):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:56:33):
We had that conversation so many times.

Speaker 1 (01:56:37):
I mean, I grew up around guns, but that doesn't.
But once again, it wasn't until I went to my
first little local steel match that I realized I, I,
you know, I suck. I was actually fairly decent with
clay pigeons and birds with a shotgun, but when it
came to a handgun, I was a piece of crap man.
And I didn't know.

Speaker 5 (01:56:58):
Yeah I had I had a marine, tell me, a
former marine or marine or what do they call it now?
He didn't need to take a handgun in class because
he had already done. He's shut up on every way possible.
I said, oh really, what what what part were you in?
He told me, And I said, well, they don't shoot handgings.
Well we didn't shoot handguns, but you don't need to
take a pistol class, okay, And that's just that's just

(01:57:18):
cops military, that's how we are. Just if it wasn't
for time Givens, I would have no freaking idea. What
good was? I'd have no clue. I'm like, I always
qualified it up with one hundred, you know. I was
that guy not that long ago. Unfortunately, and then I
saw what good looked like and I was like, oh crap.
And now every time we try to bring something modern in,

(01:57:40):
I mean I got I literally got a call from
the States, Like we have our own police academy, but
I got a call from the state Police academy firearms
guy because I wrote an article that they didn't like.
And he wasn't getting on me about it, but he
wanted to ask me questions because everybody in the state
the farms instructured for calling him complaining because or rule

(01:58:00):
this was, yes, this was the rule two stuff. There's two.
There's two articles now because Matt was nice enough to
put together a panel of experts of our friends to
commit expert witnesses to come in and do it again.
And then they let me put police one. Let me
put that in another article. And the first one it
was just the Facebook comments were just like you would expect,
like you're used to. The second one there was like

(01:58:21):
two comments and like four likes.

Speaker 1 (01:58:23):
Nobody.

Speaker 5 (01:58:24):
You couldn't argue with it. It's just impossible to argue
with at that point. But every time you try to
raise the water level, it's just a fight every time.
And all it was was don't point guns at people.
You're not about to shoot you to think you think
out of said don't carry a gun. No more guns
for coffs. You did think that, I mean, they freaked out.

Speaker 1 (01:58:42):
I thought this was America.

Speaker 2 (01:58:47):
And I just taught room clearing class last Wednesday and
Wednesday before ten hour days great time. Loved teaching that stuff,
and that was one of the foundational concepts of Okay,
we're going in the room. How do we want our
guns positioned? Where do where do our eyes need to be?
What are we looking for? When do we take our
guns off safe? When do we actually point? And these

(01:59:10):
are discussions that need to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:59:12):
Unfortunately, a lot of people get hung up on that
whole big boy rules thing where all of a sudden
they think they can do whatever one You know, the
problem with that is you're human, and you get tired,
and you get dehydrated, and you get you get you
get distracted. You know, It's like you might think that
you were like better than everyone else who's ever lived

(01:59:33):
before you and incapable of making an error. But I mean, yeah, no,
I mean, we're we're human. You're you're gonna screw up. Yeah,
As you build in redundancies for when you do screw up.
So if you're baying the basic rules and you screw up,
then no one's gonna die.

Speaker 5 (01:59:51):
Yeah, exactly, And that's exactly what that that that podcast was,
that podcast was all about. We had Chuck Haggard, we
had Let we had uh Doug Deaton. Who else do
we have on that? I have to look it up, Uh, Darryl,
I feel like there's somebody else.

Speaker 1 (02:00:09):
So dude, have a bit of experience.

Speaker 5 (02:00:14):
B d T dudes and uh all of them expert witnesses, Darryl, Doug,
Eric and Eric.

Speaker 2 (02:00:21):
Oh yeah, you weren't on that one, which was, Oh,
I know why you couldn't.

Speaker 5 (02:00:25):
I couldn't be on that one. But they did it
on kind of like on my behalf. It was so
cold because when I when that article dropped, I didn't
hear I heard crickets after that. I heard absolute crickets
after that. Because I started out with just I got
a lot of pushback on this, but let's double down
and make it worse and the book and just let
it out and Matt even let me have it, have

(02:00:48):
the have the raw video, let me yeah, cut it
up and do stuff with that was really cool, but
it takes that. It takes that much. You know that,
and that on that topic, it takes. It takes so
much to change what you need.

Speaker 1 (02:01:02):
You need some ego otherwise, you know you can. You
need some ego to try stuff, like like like being
a writer. If I didn't have ego, I would just
shrivel up and die the first time I got criticized.
You gotta think you're good. Same with shooting. You gotta
think you're good enough to keep going. But some of
these dudes, they base their self esteem on being like
perfect and infallible, you know. And then and that causes

(02:01:24):
them to lie and distort what they can and can't do.
And then and then it also causes another problem I
see a lot is where they have to put themselves
above others who are like new or trying. And this
is the one of my favorites, like post Have any
new guy post a picture of a target on the
internet and watch what happens. It could be a good target,

(02:01:47):
could be bad target. But there's no context usually because
like you guys don't even know about the concept of
time or distance, you know, or or we don't know anything.
There's just a picture. But immediately some Rando is supposed
to show up in the comments like you put too
much trigger finger there, yep, oh you're you know or whatever. Whatever.
It's like your break and your wrist low and left.

(02:02:07):
It's like, dude, for all you know, he shot that
at twenty five yards and two seconds from the holster
and in that game, he's a man.

Speaker 5 (02:02:16):
The chart.

Speaker 1 (02:02:18):
I got this chart.

Speaker 5 (02:02:19):
I know, I know exactly what I'm doing. I memorize
this chart I saw online.

Speaker 1 (02:02:22):
Oh man, I got in so much trouble on Twitter,
Uh gen pop Twitter because I took the chart and
uh it was actually the chart that had where it
had the gun lined up with like too much trigger
finger or you guys know what I'm talking about. Yeah,
And just to make sure that people knew I wasn't
sharing this like because I thought it was right, I

(02:02:43):
took like what do you call the little program where
you're like drawing it with a crayon, and I said,
this is dumb, and then I posted it and I
explained why it. You know, because it depends on your finger.
It depends on your gun. It's like what's your trigger reach,
what's your grip size? You know, it's like this all
that matters is the site, who were in the right place, right,
It doesn't matter what this is, just can you pull it?

(02:03:04):
And I tried to explain this. I had probably four
hundred people show up to yell at me, and uh,
but it was but it was funny because like everybody
who's like had any sort of shooting resume was like, yeah, yep,
that's you know. Everybody who didn't was mad at me,
you know, because like I saw the chart, what I'm

(02:03:28):
an NRA. I took an NRA training class. It's like,
all right, I got my I took drivers in high.

Speaker 5 (02:03:35):
School, the two day instructor class. That's that's the one.

Speaker 1 (02:03:42):
I okay, So I when I when I did my
this is a fun strace. When I did my NRA
instructor class, me and another guy who was a competition guy,
we we shot together. We knew each other, and we
were the youngest guys in class and Russell the poorest,
you know, and but most of the class was older
and more experienced, right, but we were the only two

(02:04:03):
comp guys. And the instructor was a great guy and
really good teacher, but he was teaching the curricula, you know,
the NRA approved instructor curricula and we're going through. In
the first couple of days, we kind of get kind
of a rational crap because we're just these two punk kids.
Were these two like punk twenty somethings who were there
in our experience, and we're competition, so we're gamers, you know,

(02:04:27):
we're not tactical, right. Only the thing is both of
us were like addicted to three gun and USPSA at
this time, and we're shooting our asses off. So we're
going through the class and the second day, at the
end of class to do the range time, right or
part way through the day, we go out to the
range and we actually do the instructor call, and most
of these guys couldn't shoot for crap. And if you

(02:04:47):
guys remember the actual shooting portion of this, it's easy,
Like it's super super easy. Like I can't remember what
the target was, like one of the big bottle targets
and you're like five yards and it's it's not even timed,
it's like and so me and the other guy immediately
we're like, okay, so what's the course of fire? Oh, geez, okay,

(02:05:10):
we just shoot in the instructor watches us and he
looks at us and he goes Okay, so he goes
on and so me and the other comp guy are
bored at this point and we kind of we've been
taking this ration of crap for two days. The range
is twenty yards long, so we get a little we
get a little B eight target right, and we run
it all the way up to the end of the
range while these other guys are doing their five yards

(02:05:32):
slow fire on a target. This big me and the
other comp guy start shooting the B eight at twenty
and we made a big show of it. So the
first one of us who dropped it out of the
black we were like, oh, we're like as me. So
I dropped one to like the seven rank, and so
he's like mocking me in, like, oh my bad. We
run it all the way back to us. I get
out of pin and I write my name next to it.

(02:05:58):
And we did that just to be dis we're young.
We did that just to be dicks to the to
the guys who'd been given us this rational crap because
they're shooting groups this big slow fire at five yards,
you know. So I had to sign. I had to
sign the miss.

Speaker 5 (02:06:17):
We were horrible, but after.

Speaker 1 (02:06:20):
That we went back to class. We didn't get any
more crap off off. Yeah, so, I mean you guys
know when you when you shoot, you shoot, And then
it was just people who don't shoot don't don't get it.
And it's not like guys who don't shoot dry fire,
you know. Oh I I I I love dry fire.
Actually I find it like kind of a weird zen thing.

(02:06:42):
It is. I would I would take my camera and
show you my office, but I have a cardboard target erays.

Speaker 2 (02:06:49):
I'm just going to take a picture with my phone
and send it to you because that's what I have
right now.

Speaker 1 (02:06:54):
Yep, yeah, yeah, you get it. I actually do have
because I have a really big off because my office,
I mean I work from homes. My office is on
top of my garage. I have a bonus root, so
it's a really long room. So I actually have my
I have seven yards marked out for when I UH,
when I when I practiced UH, and I have the
correct targets of the wall for build drill fast and

(02:07:17):
all the other seven yard drills. So I have the
targets on the walls and the and the range remarks.

Speaker 2 (02:07:23):
Have you messed with as much? I haven't done.

Speaker 1 (02:07:27):
Any of the mantis or any of the laser or
the VR. I haven't done that, and I I keep
hearing from guys. I trust it. It's really cool.

Speaker 2 (02:07:36):
It's not only as it cool, but it's also really fun.
And I brought it for me. I brought it into
the PD a couple of times, had people tested out
and they didn't want to stop.

Speaker 1 (02:07:44):
Okay, on the ACE, that's the one where you can
three D print the grip of your gun too.

Speaker 2 (02:07:49):
Right, Yeah, pretty much? Yeah, And you put the controller
into it and it's the headset is completely so I
have two VR sets. One needs a computer, a decent
computer gamer computer to run this is all. I can't
think of the word. It's all all in one. So
I don't need any peripheral, peripheral anything. All I need

(02:08:12):
is WiFi. So when we went to the Mossburg thing,
I brought it with me and so we went down
to the lobby and I had gun execs and media
people playing with the ACE down in one of the
lobbies and it's just so much fun.

Speaker 1 (02:08:28):
That's cool. I have to try that. I've never tried that,
and it looks super fun.

Speaker 2 (02:08:32):
It is.

Speaker 1 (02:08:33):
It is well. A couple of guys I shoot with
say that's actually helped them a lot. Like the guys
I trust to say it actually really it translates over
really well.

Speaker 5 (02:08:43):
But this is rude. It'll tell you every single thing
you're doing wrong every time. It never fails, so rude,
I actually got you over that.

Speaker 1 (02:08:53):
The best thing I ever found for like me personally
dry firing is when I switched to dots from irons.

Speaker 2 (02:08:58):
Yeah yeah, because all data.

Speaker 1 (02:09:01):
I thought it was dry firing pretty good with irons
because it's like, oh, that wasn't much. Yeah. On the dot,
it's like exactly exactly. It's like, holy crap, Well that.

Speaker 2 (02:09:12):
Was a really cool thing when my agency finally went
to dots to explain, you're getting so much more data
now pay attention to that and if and so. As
a matter of fact, that this room clearing class, one
of the things I started with was to determine how
fast people really should be moving. We're not running, we
probably should be walking, maybe walking into a brisk pace.
But how accurate can you.

Speaker 1 (02:09:31):
Shoot at that pace?

Speaker 2 (02:09:32):
So we're using some some of that, some laser emitting things, mantis, whatever's,
and as they're moving, their pressing the trigger Okay, what's
that laser telling you. If it's going straight up, you
are good. If it's going off left, right, up, down
everywhere else, okay, slow it down, bringing down your center
gravity slightly. That's just it's so much fun, so much
fun stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:09:54):
To off to try that, because that sounds that sounds fun.
I've actually been booked. So I tore my I tore
my bicep tendon and two in tendans in my rotator
cuff bick in January, and Judy, yeah, I am right handed,
and so for the last three months, I've shot twice
and the first time was before I got the courterzone shot,

(02:10:14):
and it was embarrassingly bad, and I was like, I
was like, I was like with an injured arm, I
had like gone twenty years backwards and shooting skill. And
then I shot again after the quarterzone shot a couple
of days ago, trying out the new PDP, and I
was like, Okay, I can still shoot, that's okay, you know.
But yeah, so I'm still slow as slow as hell

(02:10:36):
right now. I haven't dry fired hardly at all because
of the repetitive I got. I got arm barred in
in UH. We were doing in UH it's called shark tank.
Were you're just fighting guys over and over and over
again on one type of thing. And there's some guys.
There's two kinds of guys that do jiu jitsu, twenty
five year olds who want to be pro fighters, forty

(02:10:59):
somethings that are dad's who like to fight. And this
is fun, you know, And so when those two collide,
us old guys old steam rolled and and then some
of them. But I'm big and I'm strong still and
so like, and I'm fairly competitive. But I saw went
up against this guy who's a twenty five year old

(02:11:20):
MMA dude, and he actually fights, and like, he ripped
my arm right off, and I didn't tap in time.
And the thing is I was actually tapping the floor
because my arm was pinned. I could reach his leg
and you're supposed to say tap out loud, and I
was too out of breath. And so he's cranking my
arm and he's probably thinking, Wow, this old guy is
really tough. I must not have this on right, and

(02:11:40):
I know he had it perfect.

Speaker 2 (02:11:43):
Harm is being removed from the socket, and I was like, you.

Speaker 1 (02:11:47):
Know, and then and then he by and then I
think and then he didn't do anything wrong. You know,
it was actually my fault for not to do it.
But yeah, so I had to. I do get an MRI,
and which sucks when you're a big and tall dude
and they squeeze in that little tube and the part
squeezed in as the part that's injured, and they're like,
hold still for thirty minutes.

Speaker 5 (02:12:04):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:12:04):
I was like, oh, yeah, good luck with that. And
but no. So my shooting for the last three months
has been garbage. Like I have done almost nothing like
the last three months, and it's got a I got
a Prystol class coming up next month and I'm just
hoping to be at one hundred percent by that.

Speaker 2 (02:12:21):
Are you consider going lefty?

Speaker 1 (02:12:23):
I've done that before. So a couple of years ago
I tore my I just a illustrate. I was lifting
weights with my son and showing off because I thought
I was, you know, twenty again, and I was curling
way too much and I blew up the little outer
tendon on the on my right cycle and that one
was so bad. I couldn't even hold up. I couldn't

(02:12:43):
even hold like a two I couldn't squeeze like a
two meter bottle and pick it up. So I actually
I had just switched. So I switched and carried left
handed and shot left handed for about six months. And
it's funny because the gun I had a left handed
holster ready to go for was a CZP ten pten C.
So I just carried a CZP pten c for six
months and and shot at lefty. I got better. I

(02:13:07):
still sucked as a left handed man. I am like,
I struggle with left handed shooting. I am not good.
So even doing it dedicated for six months, I got better.

Speaker 2 (02:13:18):
I'm not good, but you're not shooting the ceiling.

Speaker 1 (02:13:20):
So no, I mean I'm still. I'm still. I mean
like I could still hit a guy. I mean, so
it wasn't a complete embarrassment. But yeah, Noah was like,
man that whole left hand. Some guys are ambidextrous or
more ambi ambi than others, and they do those left
handed stages and you're like, wow, that dude is awesome.
I am not. I am not among those people that

(02:13:45):
that side of my brain did not develop. Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (02:13:50):
So I got another nerd question for you. Yeah, when
you're playing D and d oh, Yeah, what is your
preferred class playing.

Speaker 1 (02:14:00):
I usually wind up playing some sort of fighter class.
I very very very very rarely go magic. That said,
I am like permanent GM for my group. I'm like,
oh yeah, I'm the GM guy.

Speaker 2 (02:14:14):
I heard rumors of sessions with people that I know.

Speaker 1 (02:14:19):
Oh okay, so yeah, so with with gun people. So
like I have a thing like I will go to
gun school and Larry is such a nerd that Larry
will run a game for us on the last night
when you know, because you don't want to do it.
If you stay up way too late, you don't want
to do that on day two of a class, you
know what, I mean to be there the next day.
But no, I am the nerdy guy who has been involved.

(02:14:41):
So I have run games for like some pretty hardcore
competitive shooters. The ven diagrams of nerd gamer nerd and
gun gamer nerd actually overlap quite a bit.

Speaker 2 (02:14:56):
And what about PC gaming?

Speaker 1 (02:14:58):
Oh yeah, I'm I am a Xbox gamer, primarily because
I spend my day on the computer, so I go
play x I'm actually pretty good. I played Call of
Duty believe it or not, which I know is funny.
We're talking about like tactical reality. No, it's the opposite. Obviously,
you got guys run around in buddy suits sliding through
doorways is very tactically realistic. But no, I love the

(02:15:18):
hell out of shooter games and I used to play
a lot of World of Tanks. I got really really
good World of Tanks.

Speaker 2 (02:15:25):
Have you tried or looked up Arma Reforger?

Speaker 1 (02:15:28):
I've heard Arma is actually very like what I was
told by my kids who played Armor was I would
rage quit. Oh I haven't played it, but that's what
I was busting. My son told me, He's like, I
don't know, Dad, I think you would get really really angry.

Speaker 2 (02:15:48):
Well, the level of detail is impressive, and like, you
get the right mods and you can pick up a
stock M four and whatever optic you want, whatever suppress
or whatever you name it, and you can play uh
PvE environments. So you're playing as a team on a mission.
That's so fun, I've heard, I've heard, I've.

Speaker 1 (02:16:08):
Heard really fun. Yeah, I've got a team of We
played dm Z, which is the guy you know DMZ.
I've I've got a team again. In fact, one of
them is my former gun dealer. He sold his gun
store a couple of years last year. But I knew
this guy from buying guns from him. He's doing Red
Dott and Layton and he's my that's my d m
Z partner. We got a third guy in Kentucky and

(02:16:30):
so we play like every week. Yeah, and uh we've
got we've gotten really for And we're three old dudes too,
playing this game full of guys with like their their
superhuman Twitch reactions, you know, and we're we're like one
of one guy is a grandpa and the other two
are just slightly younger than him. Yeah, I'm the youngest
at forty nine, and we're still competitive.

Speaker 2 (02:16:52):
But even some real world tactics work in this stuff,
and it can beat any Twitch.

Speaker 1 (02:16:56):
Surprisingly surprisingly sometimes yes, uh on on DMZ because it's
a little more strategic and the rewarding thought as opposed
to just but then aga you you I say that
until I gets killed by a guy who parachuted out
of the sky and then cut his parachute hit me
in the head of the knife and then like so

(02:17:19):
so the realism, No, it's not not a tactical simulator. Yeah,
which is funny though, because I'll see people like on
the internet when they're talking trash is like it's like
if you it's like if you you know, they'll start
talking crap and it's like there, it's like, well, if
you want to you know, call of duty is not
realistic because like we know clearly we know. I was like,

(02:17:43):
I know real guns pretty good, you know, I I
I realize this. We're not under any delusions here that
these things translate.

Speaker 2 (02:17:53):
I do wish stats wouldn't go in the direction they
would whenever you add a can though, because it's all
we shouldn't be decreasing uh range or okay, there might
be a weight penalty. That yes, absolutely that I said,
I will.

Speaker 1 (02:18:07):
I will, because the biggest problem with DMC is what
we call it's because they they they broke it and
they haven't updated for a year. But then we call
it the one shot shotgun, which is funny because in
real life it isn't one I mean shot. All shotguns
are one shot shotguns. And the game it breaks everything,
and it sucks because you know, you're fighting a guy
that he just instat wins because he's got the cheater gun.
You're like, well that sucks. But realistically, if I hit
a guy with a you know, some federal flight control

(02:18:30):
within twenty yards it's a one shot. Gary said that.

Speaker 2 (02:18:37):
Yeah. Gary Roberts on one of my earlier.

Speaker 1 (02:18:39):
Episodes said that, so yeah, hard hard to argue with
that guy. No, and so not realistic but super fun.
And so I'm I'm a I'm a I'm a video gamer,
I'm a role playing gamer, I'm a tabletop gamer. I'm
a mini painter, all that NERD stuff. I am three
D printing. No, actually, i'm one of my my son.
My son three D printed, but he's he's a PERU.

(02:19:00):
So I lost my three D printer slash gun smith.

Speaker 2 (02:19:04):
Yeah, with all of that stuff, I would think you'd
want to jump into the you can have all the
miniatures you want.

Speaker 1 (02:19:09):
I know. Lack of time on the three D printing
is honestly the one because it was one of those
I abdicated that responsibility to my children and I got
a buddy. I got a buddy who lives nearby who
does He's got a really fancy three D printer and
he'll print up like the vehicles and stuff for me
for plus I'm his GM. So he's my nerd neighbor. Yeah. Actually,

(02:19:29):
I live out in the middle of nowhere and one
of my neighbors is an award winning sculptor of all
the weird weird things. He's bronze sculptor, and he's in
my uh he's in my role playing game group. Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (02:19:41):
So yeah, it takes all kinds.

Speaker 1 (02:19:43):
And I live in the middle of nowhere too, so
that's just as it's a strange world we live in.

Speaker 2 (02:19:48):
So, speaking of connections, back in the fuzzy Bunny.

Speaker 1 (02:19:52):
Era a long time ago, do you remember.

Speaker 2 (02:19:55):
Guy by the name of Ihor Balaban.

Speaker 1 (02:19:58):
Yeah, that makes really yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:20:00):
I know he passed away a few years ago, but
he was my brother in law and he's the guy
that introduced.

Speaker 1 (02:20:05):
Me to your company. Oh yeah, great guy. No, I
remember the name.

Speaker 2 (02:20:09):
I don't, I mean, but five eight Ukrainian, uh deep
loud voice, American but Ukrainian heritage, spoke multiple language nineteen.

Speaker 1 (02:20:20):
I remember the name because it's a super distinct name.

Speaker 2 (02:20:23):
Yeah yeah, but I remember.

Speaker 1 (02:20:25):
Yeah. He's the guy that brought me over and showed
me and were like, oh, this is a cool place.
Oh man, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:20:33):
Yeah, the wayback machine.

Speaker 1 (02:20:35):
Yeah, so I was, uh man that kicked my butt.
That was retail retail guns. Yeah, dude, it's one of
it's one of Dante. You're saying you had guys who'd
worked that. It's one of Dante's levels of hell. I
can imagine permanent punishment of being it. You know, people

(02:20:56):
asking you questions for hours and hours and hours, and
then the week later they come back in because they
bought the gun at Cabella's and You're like, it's like, well,
I'm guy, I spent two hours educating you on all
the finer points of these various things, because I okay,
so I'm actually a really good gun customer because I've

(02:21:16):
been on the other side of the counter so much
so when I buy guns now, I mean, I know
what I'm doing beforehand. So I get to the gun
store and I'll be hey, hey, you got a such
and such and they're like yeah, and they'll hand it
to me. I'm I'll get ready for like the fifteen
minutes of fingering it, you know, and I'll be like, okay, cool,
is that the such? Yeah, that's right about you. I'll
take it, you know, thirty seconds, let's go. Let's go
to your paperwork. I'm not gonna like screw with you, mad,

(02:21:39):
I'm not gonna make you jump through a bunch of
hope hoops for my amusement. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:21:44):
Well, and also as someone who's purely been on the
customer side. I've never been on sales, but I'm in
the gun stores enough to hear the questions or the discussions,
just like, oh, I don't want to hear this. I'm
gonna I'm gonna comment. I'm gonna comment, and it's not
going to be good.

Speaker 1 (02:21:57):
I've heard. I've heard some dumb stuff, Like I've heard
crazy stuff over the years, honestly, And the only thing
worse is teaching CCW, because that's like the basic level
of people who were like I want to be able
to defend myself. I want to be able to carry
a gun, but this is required by the state, or
it used to be. But this is required, so I

(02:22:19):
must take it. And so some of the stuff I
would get for like the gun counter or like basic CCW.
Mind blowing the misconceptions and preconceived notions people have, Yeah,
just blows you. It. Like profound, the the fud lore,
the forty five that will pick you up and throw you.

Speaker 2 (02:22:42):
I don't even need to hit you if it just
goes by. Oh no, that's fifty BMG.

Speaker 1 (02:22:46):
I mean it's like it's a bird shot. Oh, bird shot,
bird shot people. Bird shot. Bird SHOT's magic, I mean
because it doesn't go through walls, but it instant kills everybody.

Speaker 5 (02:22:58):
Yeah, boy zaf and then that doesn't work. You do
only use wasp was spray if you don't want to
use deadly force was I don't get you every time.

Speaker 1 (02:23:06):
That's why cops all carry wasp spray.

Speaker 5 (02:23:08):
Yes, exactly on that.

Speaker 1 (02:23:10):
The magic pump shotgun. That all you got to tell you,
black quack on general principle. If I ever turned, if
I ever got hooked on meth and turned to a
life of like home invasion robbery, the sick, and I
hear a shotgun pump, I'm just gonna open fires through
the wall on general principle.

Speaker 5 (02:23:27):
Just you can know better, Just because I've.

Speaker 1 (02:23:29):
Heard that myths so many times. They're going to run.

Speaker 5 (02:23:34):
I actually did that one time when I was like,
when I was a just made sergeant. I actually black flacked.
I got my shot down the trunk. There was the
bikers that were screwing with this lady and I got
out of the car flack flack, and they were laughing
at me. It was heartbreaking. Oh no, it was heartbreaking.
I was just like hold like clack, just to run away.

(02:23:58):
They were just giggling at me. I'm like anything with that.

Speaker 2 (02:24:01):
And and and for additional context, the three of us
are near the same height, not really.

Speaker 5 (02:24:06):
I'm three inches shorter than than than either one of you.
I think I thought you're six four, Now I'm six two.
Everybod always thinks that now not even quite six two.

Speaker 1 (02:24:13):
I just think I'm six five, six five as well.

Speaker 5 (02:24:17):
Yeah, we just had Hickock forty five. On the last one.
I was almost the short guy. Yeah, six eight.

Speaker 1 (02:24:22):
Yeah, he's a big guy.

Speaker 5 (02:24:25):
He's huge.

Speaker 1 (02:24:26):
Man teacher.

Speaker 5 (02:24:29):
I bet that was a fun one. That was three
That was three hours and thirty minutes and it felt
like half an hour. That was a fun one.

Speaker 2 (02:24:36):
Well this one we're at two and a half hours
right now.

Speaker 5 (02:24:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:24:40):
Yeah. The the the when you find out that that
all bad guys are different, like they're all wired. That's
one thing that people don't realize is like they have
these broad generalizations of what human beings are going to do.
It's like, dude, people are different, they're wired different, and
there's some crazy see bastards out there. They're not wired.

(02:25:02):
They're not like us, they're not They're not processing what
you think they're processing with.

Speaker 2 (02:25:08):
That in mind, the idea. And this is one of
the things that I've had to bring up to nubies
multiple times is introducing your firearm too soon. You are
asking for them, You are escalating right now and you
don't know what you're up against. Do not bring out
your firearm until it is time and you need to
make that dissemination.

Speaker 1 (02:25:26):
I liked about Craig Douglas's ship work stuff is like
when to produce like like what leveled I mean as
first because you don't get a lot of civilian regular
people training that actually takes that stuff into account. Yeah,
And like I used to do role playing in my
CCIW classes that I had like a bunch of scenarios
and I enjoy this And mostly what I was going

(02:25:49):
for was just to get people to think outside of
their box. It was one of the things I used
to talk about is everybody had what I called like
my gunfight, and what it was is like had a
scenario they had in their head of what their gunfight
was gonna be, and it's like I'm gonna be able
to do this, and I'm gonna be able to do this.
I want to be able to do this. Man, They're

(02:26:09):
going to do this and this and this, and it's like, okay,
that's great that you imagine that, or the people who say,
well I can do this and then or the old
you know gun fights for all three three yards and
it's like until it's not until you wind up as
Eli Dicken, you know, at forty.

Speaker 2 (02:26:31):
With and his verb site was broken.

Speaker 1 (02:26:33):
Yeah, I so I I got to see the pictures
of those early because when I was doing the when
I was doing that the gut the tour for the
gun book for in defense at the Secondmendment, I actually
went on the radio show of his lawyer, wonderful guy.
Wonderful guy.

Speaker 2 (02:26:52):
I can picture him. Oh he's such a great guy.

Speaker 1 (02:26:55):
He's been on Guy Guy. Yes, I've been on his
show and he's a wonderful dude. And he actually sent
me he sent me a T shirt, uh a forty
yard ten second be like Eli.

Speaker 5 (02:27:10):
Shirt.

Speaker 1 (02:27:11):
But he showed me those those pictures before they went
public of the of the jacked up sites, which made
him a motorcycle crazier. Then his his site picture his
sites are just buggered up, and he's guy Guyriralford. Yep,
he's a great dude, Like like, uh yeah, So I

(02:27:32):
went on his show, talked to him. Just a great dude,
and uh when he told me those sites were all
buggered up, I I was like when I saw the picture, like, dude,
that kid, that kid had God on his side. It's
what that was. There was somebody at them all that
day that God needs the live and Eli was his instrument.
So like man mad props to that kid.

Speaker 2 (02:27:53):
And he also was an instrument in showing it's not
all three three three Yep, it's not three yards, three
seconds and three yards.

Speaker 1 (02:28:00):
Everybody's got their misconceptions and people who say, well I'm
gonna have the chamber empty, people slaying because they say, well,
you know, I'll have plenty of time to to wrack
the slide. Oh you think that, you say that now?
Or I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't fumble it, or
I'll you know, I'll have both hands. But what if
you don't, Yeah, you know, And it's just like you

(02:28:22):
you make these assumptions and the whole things an assumption. Yeah,
it's the whole things in an assumption. And I've gotten into
fights with those people so many times over the years
because that's just a thing that just slays me. It's like,
just get a good gun and a good holster and
this is not this is not a safety issue. But man,
oh gosh, appendix carry. People are still freaking out about

(02:28:45):
appendix carry yep, you know, and it really you're twenty
twenty five, you know, or it's just it just boggles
my mind that that's uh, you know, we have these
we have these fights and gosh, anything.

Speaker 2 (02:29:06):
You name the topic, and the fight can be about
any any any facet of it.

Speaker 1 (02:29:12):
Oh, it's it's it's universal. And I think is there's
there's some stuff that's not some stuff is like universally
true and other stuff it's just more like it's best practices,
you know. It's like it's like so so yeah, there
are arguments to be made for different things, different ways,
but we do what's most efficient for most things, right,

(02:29:32):
But then you got some stuff it's just not a
best practice ever. And but by gaully, they're all in
on it. You know.

Speaker 2 (02:29:38):
Well, twenty five years ago, smaller back, that was pretty
and cool. Nowadays, oh, no way in hell am I.

Speaker 1 (02:29:44):
Karen like that? Now?

Speaker 2 (02:29:46):
There are too many deficiencies or too many, especially living
in Utah.

Speaker 1 (02:29:50):
How many times you stepped on the ice.

Speaker 2 (02:29:53):
Yeah, there's serious considerations. But my duty the way my
duty belt is configured is specifically so if I if
I do fall, I don't get injured. Yeah, I don't
have cuffs in the center of my back.

Speaker 1 (02:30:05):
I biffed it. I've been living in Utah. You're gonna
biffit on ice, you know anyway. I would hate to
have a lump over my spine. Yeah, I've busted my
tailbone enough times. I went to college at Utah State,
which is on a hill. It is frozen half the year.

Speaker 2 (02:30:19):
Yeah, and I'm not too far away from there. And
what's the real question.

Speaker 1 (02:30:25):
Oh again, I'm gonna get and yelled at by the
Texans here. But my chili which has one chili cookoffs
in Utah beans.

Speaker 2 (02:30:33):
And the question is chili with beans or no beans?
I am pro beans and I have pro beans.

Speaker 1 (02:30:39):
Yeah, sorry, Texans. I know you're mad at me. All
the Texas, all the Texan fans just burn my books
as soon as I said that. But they can be.

Speaker 5 (02:30:46):
Wrong about one thing. That's what I would tell you.
Like I love Texas, you can be wrong with this one.

Speaker 1 (02:30:50):
Lands fine, Hey, Texas is a great state. I love it,
but I like beans. Actually I make a weird Southwest.
I have corn in my chili and I make it
with pork but also euros and so I like I
make it. I make a mean chili. I actually like
to cook. I'm a good cook. I don't know if
that's manly to say.

Speaker 2 (02:31:09):
But I think it is absolutely. I love so accounting
degree at USU.

Speaker 1 (02:31:14):
Then, yeah, got my accounting degree from us U two thousand. Okay,
I met my wife up there. We got married and uh, yeah,
so we uh she used to live right on the
hill right now from Utah State. We'll talking about business.

Speaker 2 (02:31:28):
One time I was that hill is.

Speaker 1 (02:31:30):
Yeah, the so she lived in one of those apartments.
It was on the hill. And one time I.

Speaker 2 (02:31:36):
Was like going down the hill what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (02:31:40):
I fell slid into the street underneath a parked car
and got stuck. She's still married me after this, so
I don't know. I must have liked, you know, really
wouder to uh to have her go through it with
After that, it took me quite a while to extricate

(02:32:00):
myself on the ice off from underneath the car. Yeah,
so yeah, go aggies. Yeah, I think it was.

Speaker 2 (02:32:06):
I think like eighth eighth North was about the worst
from six to tenth.

Speaker 1 (02:32:13):
Yeah. I used to my first apartment when I lived
up there. I was at the base Old Main Hill.
I was one block, one block off the stairs on
Old Main Hill. Yeah. And my wife is over north
of that on this really steep one under the old
Physical Plant. So did you go to Utah State? Yes? Yeah, yeah,
you know, yeah, so she lived on the hill like
break down from that the Physical Plant path is where

(02:32:36):
she lived.

Speaker 2 (02:32:37):
Hm hmm.

Speaker 1 (02:32:38):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:32:41):
It's a great school. And my my wife works for
the Research Foundations based on AMICX lab over there. Oh cool,
and a bunch of buddies that work at the PD
over there. And actually I'm one semester away from getting
my degree. I went all the way to the just
about there and I got sick of it after taking
basically the exact same course, top level course three times

(02:33:04):
and it was just named differently, and I just said,
you know what, I'm going back.

Speaker 1 (02:33:08):
I'm going to finish. I'm going to finish my twenty
years in law enforcement. Yeah, I'm tired of this. Yeah,
I'm man. I don't view my kids going to college like, yeah,
my daughter dropped out of college and went to tech
school and when we end up graduating faster and cheaper
and now has the same exact job. She's a computer programmer,

(02:33:29):
same exact job, and actually with all the people that
graduated from college, so she makes the same money and
does the same thing and is actually better than most
of them. Yeah, just getting just by getting SERTs.

Speaker 2 (02:33:41):
Well, what's his name, Mike from Dirty Jobs has been
saying that for Yeah, it's been saying that for some time,
and there's so much true to it that college degrees
aren't necessarily well in my current profession, college degree isn't
going to be changing anything for me in Miami.

Speaker 1 (02:33:56):
Then my other daughter, though, my next daughter, she's a
she's at she's at b and Rinahouh. So she went
to the cool one, you know, the farther one. But
she's a geologist and so she's her senior year in
geology and so for her, you can't become a geologist
on the you know, on the side, you know what
I mean, You're not gonna you know, they're not gonna.

(02:34:17):
Oil companies aren't going to hire you based on the
you know, doing that. So no, so that's for her.
That my my son, this impreer, wants to be an engineer.
So he's going to Utah State. Cool, so he does.
That's my that's my home gunsmith though, so him getting
an engineering degree is on brand. You know. This is
my kid that's been building ars for me since he

(02:34:39):
was fourteen. Oh I saw something there that it was
like talking about like the proliferation of guns amongst young
people when my son left for because remember, this is
my guns. But this is my kid that was building
guns for me. And this you guys are gonna you're
gonna laugh at this. So for the last four years,
I had been buying him cheap ar parts, right, and
he over time he actually got better and he started

(02:34:59):
moving into other guns, gunsmithing. He actually built two fALS
oh cool. So he got pretty pretty decent, right, And
I just kept supplying in with cheap parts. And when
he'd and he also he loves shotguns. He loves old shotguns.
Whenever we'd find like an old shotgun for sale, like
an old beater, we'd buy it, you know, and he
like he got he wound up with a like a

(02:35:21):
nineteen forties production Model twelve, you know, stuff like that,
right that we got for cheap. And so when he
moved out, we cleaned out his room. Twenty eight guns.
So I read this thing about the proliferation, like, oh
my gosh, this kid had access to a to a.

Speaker 2 (02:35:38):
Firearm, and like, well, that's just like the news thing. Yeah,
they have an arsenal of one hundred rounds and three handguns.

Speaker 1 (02:35:47):
My son twenty eight twenty eight guns, and probably half
were cheap ars basically what it was. But like like
like and I was just like that. I mean, so
they're like this this one kid, he he was given access,
unrestricted access to a firearm. I was like, dude, my
my kid.

Speaker 5 (02:36:06):
I was like, oh wow, access to a parent though.

Speaker 1 (02:36:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:36:11):
True problem.

Speaker 2 (02:36:12):
And the best part though, is how many crimes were
committed with any of those firearms in his possession? How
many crimes did he commit with those firearms?

Speaker 1 (02:36:20):
I don't know. We might we might have. It's like
it's like I don't know if he ever stuck the
wrong upper on the wrong lower, so we might have
committed some. But the ATF wasn't here.

Speaker 2 (02:36:29):
Violence against other persons.

Speaker 5 (02:36:31):
Zero. We're good on that.

Speaker 1 (02:36:33):
We're going. I mean, I mean there was a violence
against squirrels, rock.

Speaker 2 (02:36:36):
Chucks, probably against also the guns themselves. Things didn't match
match up nicely.

Speaker 1 (02:36:43):
I'm not allowed to gunsmiths so like back even like
when I had my own gun store, we had a
gun smithy, and I wasn't allowed to gunsmith in it
because I was just too destructive. The only time the
gunsmith ever had me coming to the gunsmithy was when
he needed to put extra torque on something like I'm
not sout of thirteen oh one. I was trying to

(02:37:03):
put the stock on because I got the air the
magpole stock. Yeah, and so I'm trying to put this
on and I'm not going together right, Like like my
son comes home and he's watching me, like monkey bang
it with a mallet, and he's like, Dad, just stop stop,
I can't watch. You're so bad. You're the most I'm like,
I'm like the opposite of mechanically inclined, right, Like I

(02:37:25):
grew up on a farm, but so I know how
to work on a vehicle. I know how to work
on a tractor. But I'm I'm just an ape and
I break everything right and I suck in mechanical things
so my son, I think, became an amateur gunsmith based
upon here the badness of me, and he got to worry.

(02:37:46):
He was swapping out trigger groups and hand and guns,
you know, and installing aftermarket parts and I'm basic fitting.
And then when he did the fALS mean he is.
You know, those are actually kind of complex with you
because you're doing the walking blocks for headspace, and he
was doing all that, you know, and he was good.
He was really good. And I don't know where you
got it from, because he's sure as hell didn't get
it from his father.

Speaker 2 (02:38:07):
So do you currently have a pile of projects for
him in four months?

Speaker 1 (02:38:11):
No, but I need to start because I got to
keep him on. Well, he's going to go off to college.
So I do actually have a couple of things, like
I have a maximum or the suppressed pistol.

Speaker 2 (02:38:22):
Oh yeah, yeah, the silence are but it's got a
horrid trigger, right, horrid, horrid, bad trigger awful and and
so I had him do the the replacement trigger before
he left, and all the replacement springs.

Speaker 1 (02:38:36):
But then now I got light primer strikes like crazy,
and so I have to switch it back to the
you know, but I looked at it. I was like,
I can tackle this. I played with it for about
fifteen minutes, and I'm like, I he'll be home in
four months. That's right in the box. I'm that bad.
I'm that bad. I was like, I just I just
want to shoot this for four months. He'll, he'll, he'll.

(02:38:58):
I'll just have him fix it when he gets home
because I break everything. Yeah, but no, he was dropping
in like he was doing like P ten triggers, glock triggers,
like like like his favorite Apex. He's using Apex parts
and yeah, no problem was he was good at that stuff.
Four months. Yeah, it's gonna go by fast. Yeah, I'll
get my gunsmith back. Yeah. I actually blew up. I

(02:39:22):
have a I have a And this is going to
add to like the sig controversy, but I actually have
a sig I need to send back because I blew
the extractor and the ejector out of it. That's it.
It wasn't it. And I'm not blaming, like everybody's jumping
on the sick. So I was shooting with my buddy Steve,
Steve Diamond, who a lot of the people watching this
probably knows. Steve and his dad was a cop is

(02:39:44):
a police chief in West Jordan, and he had a
bunch of ammo that Steve thought was factory ammo. And
I had a SIG three twenty specter comp the brand
new I had it for a week and we're shooting
at my range and Steve's shooting is his bang baby boom,
like very much different. And I look over the cloud

(02:40:06):
of smoke and Steve is there like this. His face
is all like, oh crap, what was that? And I
come over. He's like, what the hell? And complete case
separation blew out, blew the ejector out the side. Uh yeah,
it blew the extractor out the side. Dejector never found it,
so I got to send that back to get you.

(02:40:27):
But so it was, and I checked it was not
factory mo. It was mystery coperyloads that I don't know
how long his dad has had him for. And he
was and Steve was like, oh dude, I blew up
your new gut. I am so sorry. So when everybody's
like jumping on SIG for like blowing up, I was like, yes,
I've blown up a Sick three twenty. However, I am
not jumping on that bandwagon and blaming SIG because this

(02:40:50):
this was some this is some pretty crappy mystery mo.
And if it makes a giant smoke cloud on when
it goes off, yeah, that's not the gun spots.

Speaker 2 (02:41:00):
That's what we had in La Enforced.

Speaker 1 (02:41:00):
Might call it clue. Yeah yeah, this is not. This
isn't this wasn't some weird out of battery things. I'm
not jumping on that bandwagon. Yeah yeah, but I got
to send it back to get inspected because that was speaking.
Which the hell did I put it? It's too far away.
I need to make sure it's unloaded. Oh oh, I've
got another inspect I mean this this was my go
fast gun for last year.

Speaker 2 (02:41:23):
I enjoy them. I thought they were cool shooting guns,
and I started.

Speaker 1 (02:41:27):
My career with the Specter comp especially with the tungsten frame.
I really like this gun, like this is it? I
mean it it is a good shooting. Is a good
shooting piscil I put up on several of my prs
on some different drills. I actually got faster times with
the thing than it was my twenty eleven hm. So

(02:41:47):
I mean I shoot it well. But yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (02:41:51):
That's crazy talk that someone could shoot something faster than
with twenty eleven.

Speaker 1 (02:41:56):
Well By twenty eleven is not comped though, and it
didn't have that tungsten frame, so it doesn't weigh like
forty eight ounces or whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:42:02):
And removes a lot more requil Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:42:05):
Yeah, so so my sort of an aluminum frame or
steel frame twenty eleven. I mean it's pretty close in weight,
but that that Spectra comp that comp is effect. That's
an effective pump so that if you know, I'm running
an SRO on it, plus by Sti's roll iron sighted.
So yeah, between switching to a giant, giant freaking SRO,

(02:42:27):
the COMP and the tungsten grip, that's an easy to
shoot gun.

Speaker 2 (02:42:30):
Yeah, yeah, especially by the.

Speaker 1 (02:42:33):
Gray Guns trigger and you you run the Gray Guts trigger,
which is way better than the stick trigger. Six factory
trigger is sponge. It's a sponge trigger.

Speaker 2 (02:42:44):
So for me, it always felt like a rubber band
gun or something like that where the rubber band needs
to be replaced.

Speaker 1 (02:42:50):
It's just kind of a thud and yeah, not a
nice sharp. The first time I shot a Stalk three
twenty like not with the with with the with the
round trigger like like a like an seventeen and eighteen trigger,
I felt like pushing a button. That's it. Just it
didn't you know what I mean. It's just odd. But yeah,

(02:43:11):
So it wasn't until I tried the flat face one
later that I actually like would sick, and I wound
up buying like five of the damn things in different configurations,
you know, because the whole modularity thing is cool. So
it's a gun legos.

Speaker 2 (02:43:23):
The modularity is amazing, and I'm surprised no one thought
of it, or it wasn't at least it wasn't a
mainstream thing up until well, now, what was that the
new Ruger x No, that XUM.

Speaker 1 (02:43:35):
That Ruger magpull. That thing I think is going to
sell millions and millions of units.

Speaker 2 (02:43:41):
Absolute genius.

Speaker 1 (02:43:42):
It's absolutely I mean it's because it's got it's got
the modularity of the three twenties, but it's golitious, a
Gen three block. There's ten million accessories for it. I
saw already that people have already got metal grips for it,
They've already got metal metal frames. It was Icarus. That
thing has only been on the market for like what
a couple of months it's been available.

Speaker 2 (02:44:02):
And there's a full size coming to and so I'm
looking forward to like a block forty five ish with
a full size grip and a slightly shorter frame.

Speaker 1 (02:44:11):
I figure, I figured we're going to be seeing special
rugers here in the next Yeah, and it's like yeah
harder Bucks.

Speaker 2 (02:44:20):
And Primary and Secondary is the home of the rolling Special.

Speaker 1 (02:44:24):
So yep, uh oh.

Speaker 2 (02:44:27):
Question came up for you because you.

Speaker 1 (02:44:29):
Know, I do have a reader. I do not have
a reader chest.

Speaker 2 (02:44:34):
You know, Ben's local to us, the company. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's all.

Speaker 1 (02:44:39):
That's all. It's it's it's cool as hell. I mean
it's it's definitely neat, and plus the whole pop out stock.
I mean, come on, man, I'm I'm a I'm a
fiction writer. How rad is that? It's like, and the.

Speaker 2 (02:44:52):
Spare mag as a grip and it's just this this
big even Yeah, and they have one for the three
sixty five.

Speaker 1 (02:45:00):
Yeah, and the three sixty five ones tiny too, because
the three twenty one has got that big lump on
the back from Mountain a fixed dot, you know, but
the three sixty five is just flat, So it's just
a tiny I mean, that's crazy how small that thing is.
We've got like we've got like three three sixty fives
in this house because both my daughters carry three sixty fives.

Speaker 2 (02:45:22):
Yeah, well I wound up buying a that's the most
recent one.

Speaker 1 (02:45:28):
It's just sitting right over there. I have the regular,
the Excel, and.

Speaker 2 (02:45:32):
Then the Macro. No after that.

Speaker 1 (02:45:37):
Ah, man, get up. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:45:41):
I've been very pleased with it. It's been a fun
shooting gun, and it's just big enough to it's uh
it reminds me of about a nineteen eleven with like
a traditional single stack forty five. But yeah, great little
shooting gun.

Speaker 1 (02:45:56):
Good. My wife Smith and Wesson Bodyguard three Okay, that's
what she.

Speaker 2 (02:46:02):
I have one on order. I do want to get
one of those. I look forward to getting it.

Speaker 1 (02:46:07):
She's still running the old one, the one with the
with the the trigger that like you know, you know,
you like have to lift weights to pull that trigger.
Oh well, she she exercises like she works out a lot,
and so for her that was like she's like, she's like,
I'm not going to shoot this gun on accident. Ever,
it's very much power philosophy of it.

Speaker 2 (02:46:29):
I'm looking forward to getting. So it's the three eighty
Bodyguard two.

Speaker 1 (02:46:33):
Yeah, I've heard, I've heard. Yeah, it's the three sixty five.
Fuse is the one that I got. Fuse.

Speaker 2 (02:46:41):
It's a cool little gun. But yeah, I am really
looking forward to this bodyguard. I enjoy shooting three eighty.
The capacity is better, and I love shooting my Black
forty two, but the capacity is six and seven with
one in the chamber.

Speaker 1 (02:46:54):
This is twelve. As A as A as A as
a big handed guy, I have struggled with the little
I've Oh you're like a rug real CP. Yeah, I
can't shoot that thing to save my life, just like
that guy. Yeah, it's so little. Yeah, I mean it's
so tiny, and so my pocket carry guns actually three
sixty five. They'll want the shortest script. Yeah, and I

(02:47:15):
get away with it. I'm big enough. I can get
away with that as a pocket carry. Yeah, I mean
I can actually shoot it still. But like the LCP bodyguard,
I can't shoot those to save my life. I can't
shoot stubbies. I can't shoot stubbies worth a damn. I'm
so bad with snubbies. It's embarrassing. I mean, it's got
a way with limitations. Yeah, that's true, it's true.

Speaker 5 (02:47:36):
Or the new stuff the news with Weston Jay Rams.
I couldn't shoot a jayferreams save my life either. I
had to use the old clamshell that Chuck Haggard taught me,
and the newer stuf's a little bit better. Now that
you guys have already got one out, I guess I
can do it.

Speaker 1 (02:47:51):
Do you see stuff?

Speaker 5 (02:47:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:47:52):
The you see stuff? Yeah. And I have been enjoying
the the thirty two carry I've heard that's pretty good.

Speaker 5 (02:48:03):
Oh, they're very good. I thought I was get in
trouble for live streaming and we do handley again.

Speaker 1 (02:48:11):
Oh do you realize that I've been I've been whipping
them out here the.

Speaker 5 (02:48:15):
Whole me too. I again that I didn't really truposed to.
But you say he's never got in trouble before me.
Here's just the stock of it.

Speaker 1 (02:48:22):
Oh, I have just not recently.

Speaker 2 (02:48:26):
Oh whatever could that be? I can't tell what that is.

Speaker 5 (02:48:30):
It's a it's graphite of some can opener potential. They're
pretty legit and I can use a standard revolver grip
with it, and my monkey hands are are huge. You know.

Speaker 1 (02:48:45):
I I got to apologize, guys, because I didn't even
make the mental connection of the of the live stream thing.

Speaker 5 (02:48:50):
Okay, we do it all the time, and then and
then we had hiccock on last time. I've been doing
this for I don't have a three four years we've
been one with you. And then Ye's like, hey, you
guys are last stream. You know you can't do that.

Speaker 2 (02:49:03):
I was like, just the fact that guns are present,
we're already though, Yeah, we're still going.

Speaker 1 (02:49:11):
So they think they I think they change their rules
like every couple of weeks anyway from what it sounds like.

Speaker 5 (02:49:17):
So if you're a yeah, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:49:20):
We're we're obviously, uh, we're one of those we're one
of those minority groups. It's okay to beat up on. Yeah,
it's true.

Speaker 2 (02:49:28):
Hey, just make sure if you're in Utah you don't
have a flag that represents us.

Speaker 1 (02:49:33):
Oh I saw you. I saw your Facebook post about
that the other day. Yeah. You know.

Speaker 2 (02:49:40):
Also h McK grib is not serving to certain groups anymore, Yeah,
because it's.

Speaker 1 (02:49:47):
Exactly. But you know, certain groups are hardest hit.

Speaker 2 (02:49:51):
They are they are, And it's it's sad because I
can post what I posted and be accused of things
that I'm not, and it's it's really easy for people
to make those assumptions without knowing the person they're talking.

Speaker 1 (02:50:03):
About and I have friends on all over the spectrum,
and yeah, I'm just so used to getting accused of
every horrible thing in the book now I just kind
of churned out Yea. Honestly, I think I think most
of us have gotten that way. Yeah, we're kind of
we're kind of a nerd to it. After decades of
getting yelled at constantly that we're the worst thing in
the universe.

Speaker 5 (02:50:22):
You know, well that there are certain words that you
just shut off. You're like, that doesn't mean anything anymore. Sorry,
You've you've destroyed that word. You've destroyed that Yeah, you know,
you've taken it. You've actually taken it away from people
who actually deserve it.

Speaker 1 (02:50:33):
Are you talking about now? You deluted it the R
word because we brought gen X, brought that back.

Speaker 5 (02:50:43):
Yeah, uh yeah, Hey, at.

Speaker 1 (02:50:48):
Least we're Robert. At least we're not at least we're
not Tesla drivers in California or Colorado.

Speaker 5 (02:50:53):
Right Son, Oklahoma, which is wow.

Speaker 1 (02:50:59):
That's a good way to get your ass kicked.

Speaker 5 (02:51:02):
And yeah, well Okama City is you know, it's it's
still a big city. But it happened. I think it
happened to one of our officers here is from what
I was just told. Either or he was in Wichita
one the other. And that's just that's that ship's crazy, Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:51:17):
I used to I used to quote from Robert E.
Howard in one of my books once about Oklahoma, because
I had a character from Oklahoma and it was I
have never met at Oklahoma who's not ready to fight
at the drop of a hat, and will frequently drop
the hat themselves.

Speaker 5 (02:51:34):
Well you get well, I know we had we had
a politician named Mark Wayne, and uh, you know, whatever
negative things people have to say about him or think
about him or whatever may be true, I don't know,
but uh, there's the only guy, only only guy I
know that would get into a fist fight in the
Senate is a Oki is oral Oklahoma with two first names.
Your name is Mark Wayne, You're from Oklahoma. You're gonna

(02:51:56):
you're You're probably not getting a fist fight in the
Senate at some point.

Speaker 1 (02:51:59):
If he has his name, he's a cereal cod serial killer.

Speaker 5 (02:52:03):
So yeah, the middle name is the important one.

Speaker 1 (02:52:05):
Yeah, yeah, his middle names like Robert, you know he's.

Speaker 5 (02:52:08):
Gonna Mark Winton with that ass right there.

Speaker 1 (02:52:13):
Oh, if you're key in Tesla's you do it, and
you do it in like l a. You're doing in
San Francisco, you do it in Austin maybe maybe Oklahoma City.
Oh man, you were getting You're gonna get beaten.

Speaker 5 (02:52:27):
It was. It was it was unoccupied this one.

Speaker 1 (02:52:30):
But uh oh like like like okay, So like Matt,
you know, Utah, if you could key at Tesla in
Salt Lake, probably get away with it. You key at
Tesla and Ogden. You're catching hands. Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:52:44):
Last year we were on a trip, I think it
was last year we went to Disneyland. Had an uber
rode in the Tesla. First time I rode in to Tesla.

Speaker 1 (02:52:50):
It was a cool car.

Speaker 2 (02:52:51):
I thought it was a genuinely cool car. I don't
do I want one, not overly, but I like the
advancement than.

Speaker 1 (02:53:00):
A frozen wasteland in the mountains. I don't want an
electric car here. Oh oh, my.

Speaker 2 (02:53:04):
Battery life will lasts about twenty minutes.

Speaker 1 (02:53:07):
Yeah, I know, I mean we're I live way up
I live way up in the mountains. I want to
say exactly where I live, but you know where I live.
I live way up high and uh no, not a
good car for here. But actually my neighbor has one
and uses it as like during their warm weather drive
to town car they like it, but yeah, you key
at Tesla here, they're not going to find the body.

(02:53:29):
There are too many people on track hos and have acreage.
Don't so public service announcement. People don't be key in
Tesla's in rural America.

Speaker 5 (02:53:41):
Yeah bad?

Speaker 2 (02:53:43):
Why do I feel the need that or I'm thinking
we should have had Gary Hughes on for this discussion.
If you're not familiar with Gary, do you know Gary?
I know Gary, I've known Gary for years.

Speaker 1 (02:53:55):
That's insane.

Speaker 2 (02:53:56):
Ye, look at this is the conversation Gary would totally
be in on.

Speaker 1 (02:54:01):
Was what Yeah, because he's homes he's like doing the
off the grid. Well, he was giving me crap today
because I wrote like a big long thing about like
gun advice for nubs and picking on nubes right, and
Gary writes T L D R. Boomer and I responded,
was like, bull crap. Makes I've seen you wax repisodic
about the spirit of the West for pages. Okay, I'm

(02:54:25):
not going to take no craft off you.

Speaker 2 (02:54:26):
Sorry, And the whole Boomer thing goes also goes to
gang it what's his name? Nineteen or sigh. Bruce posted
about boomers and I know, I know gun story days.

Speaker 1 (02:54:45):
Yeah awesome guy, awesome Yeah yeah, no, very knowledgeable. We
did an episode specifically talking about the trials and not
this isn't sarcasm, but the trials that he went through
from going from the nice cabin ish house that he
had too in Wyoming, living in a cabin where you're
not a cabin a trailer where they had to work

(02:55:05):
hard not to freeze and die daily. The area he's in,
that's that's actually not too far across the border from
us because we're like we're like the the next town
east to me is Evanston, So I mean, yeah, it's
in Wyoming is so much worse than Utah in the winter,

(02:55:26):
except for maybe like Delta. Okay, so there are parts
of Utah they're like Wyoming and then they're just like
the wind cuts you and it just it just cuts
through you. Like and people who people who aren't Westerns,
people who haven't experienced that, they don't realize how harsh
it is. It'll kill you. Yeah, Wyoming in the winter
will kill you in a heartbeat. And there's a reason

(02:55:49):
they shut A eighty down I's one of the most
major arteries through America. They shut it down. There's no argument,
like it's for a reason. He don't push it, and
peopleople who aren't from here. I think they're gonna take
side roads because the side roads are on GPS. You know,
a ditch. Yeah, you're going to You're you're gonna get
off the main road. You're gonna drive one hundred yards

(02:56:10):
and then you're gonna realize you can't tell the difference
between what snow is the road and what snow is
the four foot drop off into the sage brush. And
good luck with that, you know, in your in your
electric car. Yeah. Well, the good thing about the electric
car is I think they all have tracking things on
so they can find your body.

Speaker 5 (02:56:32):
Yeah, eventually it saw us.

Speaker 2 (02:56:37):
No, No, you're at least you can always charge your phone.

Speaker 1 (02:56:41):
For a little while. I mean, but there's no cell towers.

Speaker 2 (02:56:44):
No.

Speaker 1 (02:56:45):
Actually your all helped out. There is starlink, So thank
you for getting you on. This is true. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:56:51):
I haven't been out to Gary's place yet, but I
really want to.

Speaker 1 (02:56:55):
Yeah, he's uh, he's he's offered if I wanted to
go shoot like Long Ranger without out there let him
know that I've known Gary for a long time. He's
he's a funny dude. Man. Yeah, he's a good dude,
super knowledgeable, like like on because.

Speaker 2 (02:57:08):
Of armor silencers, guns, armor silence are aks.

Speaker 1 (02:57:12):
Like, holy crap, his aka his AK building knowledge is
like that. That dude knows this crap.

Speaker 2 (02:57:17):
He has multiple kits of mine that are just waiting
to be put together as to include a dang what
is it called.

Speaker 1 (02:57:25):
I'm picturing it. It's like the it's the Israeli ak.

Speaker 2 (02:57:29):
Oh the galil Yeah yeah five five six original?

Speaker 1 (02:57:34):
I love that is a sexy gun. Ghali As is cool.
The Galilas is a cool gun. But the original Galile yeah,
which weighs like ten pounds, but my gosh, that is
a sexy beast. Yes, that's just a cool gun. They said,
there's some guns that are practical and there's some guns
are just cool. It's like it's like the Israeli f
al with with a woodhandguard. Oh, man, I freaking love

(02:57:58):
that gun. Yeah, what I ever want to use one?

Speaker 2 (02:58:01):
No, it weighs a ton like it's ridiculously it's and
this is coming from a larger than normal, stronger than
average human being well.

Speaker 1 (02:58:09):
I ran I ran an F A L and three
gun for a year. I did the back when they
did the whole he Man division things was a pump
twelve gage, a three to eight battle rifle and a
single stack forty five was what you had to run
for he Man Division. And uh so I ran an
F A O for a couple of years. I loved it.
But man, that that that ISRAELI one. No, that thing is.

(02:58:30):
That thing's too much. That's too much for Me's tiring.
But my my, my fl was a an Imbol parts
kit with a with a Century Arms receiver. And to
show how old I am, the Century Arms thumbhole stock.

Speaker 2 (02:58:47):
Oh cool. I had an old vepper that had one
of those.

Speaker 1 (02:58:52):
Yeah, yeah, all the wood vapper stocks. Yeah. I love
the vepper I had. I got a I ran an
A K for a couple of years too. I ran
and seven six two seven six to two pepper K
with the sixteen inch barrel. The only thing I put
is I put the glile sites on it. We welded
galile sites to the discover and I ran that and

(02:59:13):
it was it was a hoot and I love that. Actually,
one year they had the Utah tactical rifle matress was
basically like a two hundred yard rifle. Matches did out
of the farm the training center. Oh and the top
was the last time we were there. I did a
class out there probably about four years ago.

Speaker 2 (02:59:30):
Maybe I understand the driveways improved, but no.

Speaker 1 (02:59:33):
Way, dude, that driveway eats tires. I used to be.
That's where I did. The match was a match director
was was where we shoot three gun and every single match,
every month, somebody had a pop tire.

Speaker 2 (02:59:48):
I was one of them.

Speaker 1 (02:59:48):
One time.

Speaker 2 (02:59:50):
As a matter of fact, it was for the hot
one of the days that the hot It was twenty
seventeen at the hot shotgun class.

Speaker 1 (02:59:56):
I was supposed to go to that. I were canceled,
you were, and Bob Westover took my place. Bob killed us.

Speaker 2 (03:00:04):
Yeah, Bob took good Holy crap.

Speaker 1 (03:00:07):
I Bob for him. I've known Bob for twenty five years. Amazing.
And so I forgot who the finalists were, but he
just ate up everyone. Bob smoked him. So Bob, Bob
and so Bob, Bob Westover and Dave Bridges in that
particular class, or my buddies and and so, I can't
remember which one is I had to cancel for some

(03:00:28):
reason and one of them took my spot. But yeah,
it was Bob. That For those for those of you
guys listening who don't know who Bob is, he's like
seventy five and steal in phenomenal shape and one of
the best shooters you will ever come across.

Speaker 2 (03:00:45):
He ran that pump, so I was running at thirteen
oh one, and he was shooting faster.

Speaker 1 (03:00:51):
Yeah, with with like a fifty year old age seventy Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:00:56):
Yeah, there was nothing plastic or tactical or it was
all very traditional.

Speaker 1 (03:01:01):
Oh that man. Okay, So Bob is the last senior
citizen you ever wanted to get in a gunfight with.
That man has been shooting since the Dawn Time character
yet he actually, yeah, Bob is a character book. In
the novel Hard Magic, there's a pirate, There's a there's
a there's an air airship pirate named Captain Bob south

(03:01:21):
Under instead of Westover, it's south Under and uh and
the and it's Bob. I'm dead ask because he's one
of the most interesting men I have ever met in
my life. But but that's one of those guys. He
does not Bob does not look like Bob looks like
a guy you could push around and no, Bob will

(03:01:43):
shoot you dead with a with a forty five caliber
nineteen eleven that is older than you are. Yeah, yeah, man,
that man is he he's he's Bob's the chit. I
love that guy.

Speaker 2 (03:01:56):
So you were saying you went to uh the farm?

Speaker 1 (03:01:59):
Oh yeah, so uh what was it? What story was
I tell? And I can't remember that because we were
going to the farm for some reason. You're going for
teaching a class? Was it a competition? Let's rewind it.

Speaker 2 (03:02:14):
Hey the listeners, come on, come on, I.

Speaker 1 (03:02:18):
Don't remember that I paid What do I pay you for? Dude?
The farm In the winter, we used to do three
gun matches on New Year's Day out there. Now that
was a rough match. It was cold like it was
no you ta tactical rifle match. So one year they
did a Utah tactical rifle match out at the farm
and it's like so basically a two hundred yard rifle,

(03:02:39):
so it wasn't long range. But I ran that vapor
k and so the top ten were nine ars and
second place was my vapor k uh and in first
place was Craig outson. I don't know if you know
Craig great shooter, great shooter. Actually he went on he
was on he went on to be on three gun Nation.

(03:03:01):
Excellent shooter. Uh like really really good competitor. Great guy.
But yeah that no, those peppers, those peppers are they're
good guns. Yeah. They do not shoot like a normal
like it was about a It was about a two
and a half m away guy. Yeah, is with is
what I think it was. So I think I was
about the best group I ever got out of it.

(03:03:23):
Good stuff. Well, we just we just had the three
three hour mark. I can keep on going. So as
I told you the day, you guys were both frozen
on my screen there for a second.

Speaker 2 (03:03:36):
Oh, and I think because we're just kind of going,
we can keep on going.

Speaker 1 (03:03:40):
We have I have don an eight hours eight shift.
Yeah I even realized what time it was.

Speaker 2 (03:03:44):
Yeah, like nineteen eleven.

Speaker 1 (03:03:47):
I want babble. I want babble guns stuff and book stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:03:50):
For that and nerd stuff, nerd stuff, game stuff and
Gary Hughes and Sandy And.

Speaker 1 (03:03:57):
I think it's funny, like we said, it's like it's
it's a it's a small world. It's because it's not a.
It's not a big community and relatively speaking, so y'all
kind of do you know each other or you know
each other by reputation?

Speaker 2 (03:04:10):
Yeah? So, and and I've yeah, I've known Gary, I
don't remember for how long, And I don't know, I
don't even remember how I got to know him.

Speaker 1 (03:04:18):
He was a sales rep when I met him. He
was repping and repping some different companies and then he
went and did suppressors or silence. He went in uh
dead code two. He had two different companies and uh,
just a just a, just a man. He's an iconic
class dan. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:04:38):
Well, and I think this also goes to what we
were talking about, that being the small world and the connection.
But these are all people that I hold in very
high esteem.

Speaker 1 (03:04:49):
This there's a level of quality.

Speaker 2 (03:04:51):
Of person that that we're talking about where these aren't
just your average citizens or average people. These are these
are people that stand out and they all have to
be part of this this community. Are Chrisperts Christ He is.

Speaker 1 (03:05:05):
Such a he's such a class act. Like he is,
he is as great guy. Yep, yep, so many of
these people. Yeah, just Chris has been to my house.
In fact, I think the first time Chris Epher played
a role playing game was at my house after after class.

Speaker 2 (03:05:22):
America he is.

Speaker 1 (03:05:23):
He was like, he's sitting there, you go. This is
a manly dude, and he is like Johnny Football Hero, Yes,
Captain America War Hero. He's there and we're like, all right,
this is how this nerdy ship works. Here's your dice.
You're gonna play pretend, you know, and that's probably there

(03:05:44):
wearing all purple. Oh man. Yeah, du So, Yeah, I've
I've I've I've I've introduced some some pretty hardcore, really cool,
real life cool people to some nerdy stuff. But we
did yeah when one year after class we did The Mummy,
another year after class we did Aliens, and another one

(03:06:05):
was like a Miami vice where we robed Pablo Escobar.
So yeah, I've run I've run some some pretty hardcore
gun dudes through uh, some dorky ass role playing games.
I have a rep that I will I will do
some dirty stuff and you're proud of it. I'm on
a bashit man at my man cards punched. I'm good
to go.

Speaker 5 (03:06:24):
Yeah, I can't wait about this.

Speaker 1 (03:06:30):
Yeah, I know. Chris is a good dude, Like like
he does his class where he does it's not a
shooting class, but it's like a it's like a danger
awareness uh management class where he really goes into like
a lot of uh like William April's curriculum stuff, but
combined with a lot of his like real life experience,

(03:06:52):
and it's just kind of a lecture class. Awesome if
you ever get a chance to take that from Chris,
it is super good. Honestly, for me, it was really
valuable as a writer because I was able to steal
a bunch of this stuff about villains, basically criminal behavior,
like the way criminals pick targets. Its just valuable. I
mean stuff stuff you guys probably already know from your careers,

(03:07:15):
But for me it was like stuff I didn't know
anything about, and so it made for good, good research.
I actually had a couple other novels took Chris's Class
two for that same reason, and that was good. It
was awesome, those good stuff. Are you at all connected
to Varg Freeborn? You're breaking up there, matt Oh, Are
you at all connected to Varg Freeborn? Do you know Varg? No?

(03:07:39):
I can't. I can't hear you, man, You're you've gone
robot voice on me. Oh, well, there there you go.

Speaker 2 (03:07:44):
You're back varg Freeborn. Are you connected.

Speaker 1 (03:07:47):
Do you know him? No, I don't know him. I've
seen the name about know him.

Speaker 2 (03:07:51):
So he has a book, he has a couple books
specifically focusing on that, and that has been his Niche
completely and really interesting perspective. And his is from firsthand
perspective as someone who's lived within that criminal element.

Speaker 1 (03:08:05):
Oh yeah, very interesting stuff.

Speaker 5 (03:08:08):
Very firsthand.

Speaker 1 (03:08:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:08:10):
I mean a little bit eye opening after all the
after all the stuff we've you know, I've read and experience,
it was a little bit like.

Speaker 2 (03:08:16):
Whoo, yeah, you from the other side. And so one
of the one of the things that brought him into
this was he was in an altercation where he stabbed
a guy twenty something times and and see.

Speaker 5 (03:08:28):
How it works. Yeah, Like I've been in the aftermath
of some stabbings like that. Yeah, and it all just
kind of clicked and like that makes total sense what
he's saying.

Speaker 4 (03:08:37):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (03:08:37):
And then after after the fact he was exonerated, judge
after he served five years, said you know what, this
is defense. This is self defense here.

Speaker 5 (03:08:46):
Violence of mind.

Speaker 1 (03:08:47):
Yeah, violence of mind. Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 5 (03:08:51):
It's very good.

Speaker 2 (03:08:53):
As a matter of fact in the near future, if
you want to do another one of these, and you
guys could just talk, I would love to be a
fly on the wall to hear what your questions and
what his comments and what that back and forth with my.

Speaker 1 (03:09:05):
First hand knowledge of violence is limited, which I am,
you know, knock on wood. I'm glad for that's something.
That's a good thing, you know. That's so say I.
I write the imaginary stuff.

Speaker 5 (03:09:18):
Yeah, for entertainment.

Speaker 2 (03:09:23):
That's because MHI is real.

Speaker 1 (03:09:26):
I I I do my I do my homework, I
do my research, and I know a lot of interesting
people who've done a lot of interesting stuff for me personally.
I am glad that I am a fat nerd. You
know a lot of guys, a lot of guys will
try to like put on put on airs. No, I'm good,
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (03:09:46):
I'm what I am. I'm good with you.

Speaker 1 (03:09:48):
Yeah, like I said, I'm the guy. I'm the guy
with the torn up arm because I still think I
can wrestle twenty five year olds, you know, I got
I'm like I said, a man's got to know his limitations.
Speaking of which I I probably should call it at night.

Speaker 2 (03:10:01):
Oh, thanks for your time. So before you cut out.
So we'll wrap it up. I'll kill the feed, and
then I have a couple of things to tell you
that you just you might like. But let me pull
up my notes. One of my favorite things to say
with the ending and sometimes the beginning of all of

(03:10:22):
these podcasts is you, the listener of the viewer, make
sure you're supporting those sources that you found to be beneficial.
If you like what Larry had to say, you're going
to want to look him up on social media. You're
probably going to want to look up his books specifically.
I personally have experience with Monster Hunter International in that series.
I am currently on book three of that. I am
very much enjoying it. I definitely definitely recommend it. Matter

(03:10:48):
of fact, So yeah, currently listening to it on audiobook.
The narrator is fantastic as we as we discussed earlier.
By you liking, subscribing, sharing and all that kind of stuff,
you kind of help you help us out because the
algorithms don't work in our favor. The fact that there
are guns behind me already give us some strikes with
this discussion. However, the discussion was awesome, As my friend

(03:11:10):
Richard said, great episode. Thank you all. He just said
that in chat. But because we have, because we have
some topics that are not the most popular. It's about firearms.
We've talked a little bit about finalists, we talked about
that stuff. It is to a point being censored. So
that's where you use the listener.

Speaker 1 (03:11:30):
Come in.

Speaker 2 (03:11:31):
Make sure you're giving those like those subscriptions, those shares,
and that goes with everything primary and secondary. This is
episode four hundred and twenty four of this episode was
three hours. If you and this is a ish average
for a length. That's a lot of hours of content.
And I love doing this.

Speaker 1 (03:11:51):
I love doing it.

Speaker 2 (03:11:52):
So yeah, make sure you're supporting those sources that you
found to be beneficial. So with that in mind, let's
get some final thoughts, some final plugs, starting with Warren, what.

Speaker 1 (03:12:02):
Do you have for us?

Speaker 5 (03:12:03):
Okay, I'll always reiterate what Matt says. I always appreciate
him having me on. Share the good stuff, share the
stuff you like from from here. If you you know,
if if you think three hours is too long, you
haven't tried it. Okay, go mow your lawn, go drive
your car, put the thing on. I promise it's worth it.
Don't be shy about the t ld rs. And then

(03:12:25):
always this right here, I got it up right now.
It's upside down that it writes the first time, it's backward.
My screens help me out. So uh, this as I
first got on audio, This is a really really good book.
If you've ever had that conversation set a conversation slash
argument online, in person or whatever, this was probably the

(03:12:48):
best one I've ever read. That that kind of put
everything that you already know that you've read somewhere that
you may't remember in one place with like you said, a.

Speaker 1 (03:13:01):
A what do you call this? The longer It took
me longer to gather all the information in fact check
it than it did to write the book.

Speaker 5 (03:13:11):
I believe it. So all this stuff has done there
for you. So check check that out very reasonable on
audible and on Amazon or wherever you're going to get
your books.

Speaker 2 (03:13:19):
I really liked it for me, and that just check
me out at Police one of the Second Amendment in
Defense of.

Speaker 5 (03:13:24):
The Second Amendment, You can check me out on Police one.
I'm kind of a quasi monthly columnist there, but we
don't do it monthly. We don't kind of whatever I want.
So that's my only plug. And again thanks to Matt Larry,
nice to meet you.

Speaker 1 (03:13:38):
Nice to meet you. That was a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (03:13:39):
Man me too and Larry, where can people find you? Plugs,
anything that you want to bring.

Speaker 1 (03:13:45):
Up over you. So, my last book that just came
out was the Heart of the Mountain. It's the finale
of a six book epic fantasy series. If you're into that,
like it's uh uh like Game of Thrones, only without
the incest and stuff actually happens. And I finished it.

Speaker 2 (03:14:05):
And you finished it, wasn't it.

Speaker 1 (03:14:09):
Yeah. You can find me all over social media if
you want to have a newsletter. If you have, my
blog is moster hunter nation dot com and just follow
me on Twitter. Just I'm monster Hunter forty five. And yeah,
so that's how long you've been doing this. Let's carry
to forty five back in those days. So yeah, check
check my stuff out. I hope you guys enjoy it

(03:14:30):
and thanks for having me on. I appreciate it, guys, Tametime.

Speaker 2 (03:14:35):
So big thanks to the panel, big thanks to the
listener of the viewers. Big thank you to the episode
sponsors Lucky Gunner, Filster Walter and lastly the Patreon subscribers.
If you go to patreon dot com slash Primary and
Secondary or if you go to Patreon dot or if
you go to Primary and Secondary dot com slash forum,
there is a banner that says network Support. From there,
you can help support the network directly. I have all

(03:14:57):
these resources.

Speaker 1 (03:14:58):
I have a forum.

Speaker 2 (03:14:59):
We have seven hundred and thirty six different Facebook groups
about all kinds of different topics. We have the Yeah forum, website, Facebook,
various videos, you name it.

Speaker 1 (03:15:09):
Love doing it. It's great to.

Speaker 2 (03:15:12):
I love networking. I love having these these discussions. I
get to learn new stuff I can learn. I get
to meet new people and realize, oh, there's so much similarity.
This is someone I can hang out with in person,
not just a hone. I like that.

Speaker 1 (03:15:27):
I know all your sponsors and I for some of
them this week. Yeah, yes, there's truth to that.

Speaker 2 (03:15:34):
And with my my selection of sponsors, it's these are
the ones that I use, These, these are the ones
I trust. Fun Yeah yeah, but yeah, I love putting
this together. I think that is pretty much it. That's
been a three hour episode, but it doesn't feel like
it's been that long. So yeah, good stuff. So I'll
just kill the feed, and you guys stand by and

(03:15:57):
we'll just I'll hit end stream and then the local
will go, and that the people watching live don't have
to hear what we're about to talk about.

Speaker 1 (03:16:08):
Mm hm m hm

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P&S ModCast 424 -Author Larry Correia

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