P&S ModCast 434 - The Rifle Renaissance - Primary & Secondary Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everyone, Matt Landfair here with primary and Secondary. Welcome
to Moodcast. The episode number is four thirty four. The
topic the rifle Renaissance. Now this topic, you might think
one thing, but it's actually going in a slightly different
direction than what you're anticipating. We are going to be
talking about rifles, We're going to be talking about training.

(00:22):
We're also going to be talking about an event. Today's
date is July sixteenth, twenty twenty five. That's kind of
important to bring up too. I was it was brought
to my attention people have listened to some older ones
not knowing when it was actually broadcast, not realizing it
was ten years ago, and the stuff we're talking about
at long past everyone had died and all that kind

(00:42):
of stuff. Okay, maybe not that bad. Yeah, though, I
got to say, I still brag about an episode AJ
was on where we talked about nineteen eleven's and that
was an eight hour episode. I was talking to an
attorney friend about an upcoming episode where the topic of

(01:03):
discussion bringing on some cops and attorneys is how to
be a good witness, how to testify, how to be
a defendant. Because I don't know if we necessarily ever
discussed that stuff. And I warned him and he's like, well,
what am I looking at? And I said, well, it's
going to be a pretty pretty open conversation, pretty relaxed.
Always have a good time with it. It turns sometimes

(01:25):
it gets kind of funny, and it's just it's enjoyable.
Down on an hour, two hours, we've gone eight hours?
Wait eight out? Yes, yes, we have non stop and
if I recall correctly, that actually ended up being ten hours.
It was just the last two hours weren't recorded because
of the app I was using. What a good time?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
And I.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Feel sorry for people that hear that and are shocked
and appalled. When you have the right people talking about
the right topic, keep on going, keep on going, because
there's so much good information exchange going on and here
in different perspectives. Have an episode tomorrow where we're going

(02:11):
to be talking about forty five cult. I'm not very
well versed on forty five cult, but hearing some of
these Revolver officionados talk about it, I stopped them as
they were talking about it. I said, why don't we
just do an episode because I want to sit back
and learn, because I love these discussions where I get
to just sit back and learn about this stuff. And

(02:31):
that's how it was with the nineteen eleven episode and
with today's episode. So we're going to talk about Yeah,
we're going to talk about some of the tangible aspects.
We're going to talk about some of the teaching aspects,
but also training opportunity. My backgrounds and LA enforcement been
doing the cop things since last century. I'm going to
say my favorite thing that I begin every episode with

(02:52):
and I try to end it with as well, make
sure that you, as the listener of the viewer, make
sure you're supporting those sources that you have found to
be beneficial. What I mean by that is if you're
either listening to a podcast's, listening to a lecture, reading
an article, watching a video, no matter what it is,
if it's something you benefit from, you got to give
it likes. You got to support that because if you

(03:14):
can't financially support some of this stuff, and some of
it you can't, what you can do is you can
provide those likes, and you can provide those shares and
those subscriptions, and that's important and that helps with the
whole algorithm stuff because and I say this every episode
because there are firearms behind me. Automatically, the algorithms are
giving us strikes. That shouldn't be the case, but that's

(03:36):
just the world we live in. You, as the listener
of the viewer, get to help out with that whole
algorithm thing, and by giving those shares and those likes,
that helps override that. And when you share it, it's
expanding who's potentially going to see it, so that's appreciated.
So these guys are going to give their backgrounds, pay

(03:57):
attention to who they are, pay attention to what they represent.
If you like what they say, seek them out on
a regular basis. I have guests who are their instructors,
and they provide such a great insights and great classes
and you get to hear, you get to hear about
their mindsets, and you get to hear about where they're

(04:18):
coming from. With these kinds of discussions, the next step
if you like what you if you like what you
hear from these guys, should probably sign up for class.
And I strongly suspect they are going to be people
listening to this episode and going, I like what these
guys have to say, And if that's the case, make
sure you're looking them up, make sure you're subscribed, and

(04:40):
sign up for class's as a that's a long term
value right there. And signing up for class is a
longer term value than having a owning a tangible object
because you can take that training everywhere you go where
you can't necessarily take the latest and the greatest twenty
eleven or whatever with you. So I guess we'll go

(05:02):
call on aj for background and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
Also, one of my favorite podcasts ever was definitely the
nineteen eleven podcast.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
It was so fun and it was stuff. It was great.
It was great.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah yeah, And if anyone doesn't believe you, absolutely ten
hours we kend going. It was nuts. But yeah, good times.
So I'm Ajzo. I run a company called Practical Performance.
My background especially on the rifle.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Side, right.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
I grew up in the military, spent some time there
and overseas. Once I got out of the military about
two thousand and nine, I went into the private sector
EPPSD work primarily focused on overseas PSD stuff, but all
my stuff was really on the training side, state side,
and that kind of led me down the teaching road.

(05:59):
I've been teaching. It's two thousand and nine. Funny enough,
Brian and I were talking about this not too long ago.
I started as a a primarily a rifle instructor, and
ended up being, you know, kind of a pistol instructor
or known for pistol work, not so much rifle work,
but I started in rifles, and one point I went

(06:19):
to gunsmithing school, So I you know, most people know
me because I built nineteen elevens and twenty elevens or
teach nineteen elevens and twenty elevens.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
But yeah, so that's kind of my background doing that.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Still do it till this day, and I'll keep doing
it until I don't like doing it anymore, and then
I'll stop and do something else.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
So and where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (06:41):
So the easiest way to find me pretty much anywhere
under practical Performance. Typically it's practical Performance dot Org is
my website, Instagram, practical underscore Performance underscore Org longest handle
in the world. I am totally shadow bay and on
literally everything. Can't figure out how to get it undone,

(07:03):
so you might have to type in my exact name
with my exact company name, so good luck, but feel
free to reach out to me. Practicalperformance dot Org and
I'll hook you up with it.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Sounds good, Shane.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
Hey, thanks Matt. I'm Shane Kerwin. Personal Survival Solutions. I
started in twenty eighteen when I retired out of the military.
I did twenty four years in the military, six tem
and special operations. I was in fifth Special Forces Group
my entire time. I got there in two While I
was there, I was a eighteen delta, a Special Forces

(07:41):
medical sergeant. Pretty much served in every capacity you could
with that except up at the battalion level. During my
time there too, I went down and was a primary
instructor at our sniper school there at Fifth Group, So
I was at cadre, the senior cadre, and then ended
up being then commissioned officer in charge of that for
a while until they promote to me out of it.

(08:02):
Did company operations for a little bit about a year.
We set up training equipped Syria and the Kingdom of Jordan.
Then I got to pick my own team. I mean,
I did my two years of operation sergeant time or
team sergeant time, with a couple more trips before I
finally packed it in. So you know, as far as
rifle goes, I mean I live with that for twenty

(08:24):
four years and taught it also also concurrently about seven
when I was down at our sniper committee, I started
teaching on the armed citizen side, and I was working
for a company here in Tennessee. Did that for a
while and then kind of freelanced, and then with some
encouragement in twenty eighteen, that's when I started hearted the company.

(08:49):
You know, some things of note. Aside from running Personal
Survival Solutions full time, I'm a paramedic with the State
of Georgia. I'm a firearms instructor for Tennessee law enforcement
here in the state of Tennessee where I live, and
I don't know, that's kind of me in a nutshell, Oh,
I guess.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
You know.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
Kind of a pertinent point is everybody wants to know deployments.
I got eleven deployments overseas. I got seven of them
in the Global War on Terror, most of them working
in a medic slash sniper capacity. So I've got a
pretty hefty background in the military. And then on the
armed citizen side with run and a rifle. Where you

(09:32):
can find us is www. Personal Survival Solutions dot Com
or then on Facebook, Instagram or LinkedIn is just at
personal survival solutions, and if you reach out to us,
we'll do everything we can to try and take care
of you, because we want to make sure that people
are as prepared as they possibly can be if they
ever have the worst day of their life.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Heck yeah, yeah now, and wasn't cyper fifth group? Oh
diab I think you might have been having an issue
with your connection because I think you you freeze up
every couple seconds.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Oh, and now you just turn into a robot.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Love it.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
If it's possible to reboot, that might help. Okay, I look,
I'll keep an eye out. Perfect Yeah, I can't get
as soon as I bring that up, and then all
of a sudden, he is now frozen. That's not a
good sign. You need to put more quarters in the machine.

(10:40):
And then, Brian, my friends are cool.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
I like that, except for the frozen one. He's not
as cool. Now. I'm a traveling instructor, ice cold. Look
at that ice ice baby down there. I'm a traveling instructor.
This is what I do for a full time living,
going across the country. Three courses I teach, primarily deliberate
coaching the inner game of shooting, and pistol essentials and beyond.

(11:07):
My background is completely different. I was in law enforcement,
but primarily I was a martial arts instructor for almost
four and a half decades, and I fought at the
amateur and professional level, So I know a lot about coaching.
I know a lot about the soft side of this,
the neuroscience side, the software portion of this, and I'm
kind of the geek in the group for all that stuff.

(11:28):
I got my start in firearms fifteen years ago outside
of law enforcement, where I took an apprenticeship with a
company and they primarily did rifle, precision rifle, and pistol.
And it was really interesting because when I entered the
industry at that point, it was mostly rifle, that's what
everybody was doing, and then we saw a big change
and now it's mostly pistol, which all of us have

(11:48):
gone through. And one of the reasons we're sitting here
talking about the rifle renaissance, Shelley and I sat down
and talked and said, hey, we'd really like to have
a chance to shoot rifles again, because I think it's
incredibly that we're not specialist but generalist, that we have
a large degree of training over a broad basis of aias.
So it should be a really interesting conversation with these

(12:09):
guys tonight. And Adam Winch won't be with us tonight,
but he's another instructor on it. He's well qualified as
a really cool background too.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
So I was thinking about this before we started, and
I mentioned a little before we went live. I remember
almost twenty years ago going through classes and they were
these combat rifle classes, and these were these were the
cool classes, and they were absolutely enjoyable. I learned a
lot about myself. I learned about the gun that I ran,

(12:42):
and I used the pat Rogers courses as an example.
Going through pat Rogers course, a rifle course specifically. It
at times it could be grueling, depending on the weather,
depending on the schedule, depending on how long I'm standing
and shooting, but also I'm really beaten up my rifle
and seeing if it can take this because we're shooting

(13:03):
thousands of rounds and it's a good time. This is
something it definitely seems like back then that was the
thing to do, and as you pointed out, then we've
kind of transitioned to it. There's a little bit more
focus on a handgun with not as much focus on rifle,
but now is the time where maybe we can be

(13:25):
a little bit more smart about this as opposed to
just running thousands arounds. And it's a good time. We
are building skills by doing that, doing a lot more,
having a lot more refinement to this, and a lot
more purpose. And I really appreciate that. There's a topic
that's been in the back of my mind with a

(13:46):
couple other guys for us to discuss, and it's basically
the idea of the citizen minuteman, and that is that
would be a for me, that would be a separate
topic from what we'd be discussing today, But it all
kind of comes down to the idea we need to
be those We need to be well versed in what

(14:07):
we're caring every day, and we also need to be
well versed in the best options available to us, whether
that's a long gun, whether that's a handgun, whether that's
a rifle shotgun, but just opportunities for all of us
to improve. And it's and I've said this about handguns.
We live in a time where there are so many

(14:28):
fantastic options. It's difficult to make a bad decision. We're
surrounded by wonderful opportunities for training as well. And there
are so many different avenues we can take. We can go,
we can we can we can go with a Jedlinski class,
Modern Samurai, go with a Red Dot specific and go performance.

(14:48):
We can we can go do all these different different things.
And I'm just thinking of all my friends like Presburg
and rest In and all these guys. These are top
these are top notch classes, and we're completely surrounded. And
with that in mind, and then and I guess when
then we have that Brian Hill guy I've heard. I've

(15:09):
heard nothing but great feedback, especially with your coaching and
for someone who's new to this, and and and there
are people they're they're younger or there or there, they
might be they could be our age and they're just
now seeing, you know what, I want to get into this.
I remember hosting my first pet Rogers class and being

(15:29):
a bit intimidated because there's there's a lot going on here.
But going to something that might be it's it's going
to You're going to be eased into something a little
bit more more. Uh, that's more easily. That's just appealing
and and not everything has to be always this hard charging,
we're wearing multiicam, We're we're running mag after mag after mag.

(15:53):
Now we have a purpose and and it has to
also have it has we have to have context, and
it has to we have to have a level of
realism there. And I think that I think this, this
makes for a wonderful conversation, So Brian, take it away.
I just my favorite episodes are when I get to

(16:14):
sit back and listen and learn and and and be
able to use some of this stuff and recommend things
and help people fine tune what their decisions are or
at least fine tune what the solutions I can provide.

Speaker 5 (16:30):
So we were all teaching together at one of the conferences,
a girl in a gun conference, and we sat down
and had to talk about this, and the idea was
we'd all like to have a class that would have
been what we wanted when we first started shooting rifles
instead of just what we got pushed into. And there's

(16:50):
nothing wrong with that, but the idea of rifle that
was context driven and the things that we wanted to
learn as instructors. And you know, we sat down, the
four of us with awesomely no ego. There was no ego,
just The only thing these guys care about is advocating
for the success of their clients and their students, and

(17:11):
that's all they really want to do. And these are
lessons of experience and to create a community. And Lord knows,
we have what three hundred and thirty million rifles in
circulation right now, and these are things that are important.
And somebody may very well pick us up as a
home defense, or they may find themselves on the very
outside where law and order is broken down a little bit,

(17:33):
and they need a different opportunity. And we'd like them
to have a chance to train in a way that's meaningful,
that allows them to truly explore what it means to
shoot a rifle well, not just to shoot it on
the range well, but to make good decisions under pressure,
to understand the stretch and the novelty of combat, to
understand how to make good decisions, to see the background,

(17:56):
how to employ it quickly, how to build fundamentals that
are liable under stress and pressure. And I think this
idea of the Renaissance, it's it's a chance for us
to bring sixty or so shooters together and give them
a chance to really develop some skills that we all
wish we had gotten earlier and we didn't have to
earn the hard way.

Speaker 6 (18:20):
Aj what Brian said exactly everybody, Oh, exactly, absolutely correct, right,
And you know, I think most of us, at least.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
I know Brian and I have talked about this before,
and Sane and Adam, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
We've talked about this before as well. You know, this
idea that I.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Don't want the classes that I took when I first started,
because frankly, they are they look nothing like the classes
we see today, for good reason. For good reason.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
You know, we're at such an amazing time.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
The guns we shoot are way better than anything we
started on.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
I don't care what you started on.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
They're way better today than we've ever had, and we
have more access to them and better ammunition, more ammunition.
The level of training we have is so much more
leaps and bounds ahead of what, at least where I started,
for sure.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
And you know, it develops and some of it's new,
some of it's not.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
I mean, nothing's new under the sun, but we all
have different takes on things.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
And I think.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
This, this idea with rifle renaissance is really much like
Brian said, we're trying to give people the things we
wish we had, you know, from from the from the
standpoint of where we are today, knowing what we know.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
I wish I had known this.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
You know, it's quite interesting too to look at, you know,
just talking with those guys about who is going to
do what and teach what how Everyone has like kind
of their their different sections and you know, what's.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
More importan to me over here might be more important
to you over here, so on and so forth.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Which I think I think is super cool but also
a really neat thing when you bring four different instructors
with four different backgrounds for you know, granted many of
us have some type of law enforcement or military background,
some more performance shooting oriented, but different performance you know,
with Shane much more heavily on the precision rifle and

(20:26):
Brian on the precision rifle side, and I would you
know me kind of on the performance side. And then Adam,
you know, with his kind of the his combative nature
and and you know, unorthodox kind of shooting stuff he
wants to get into. I just think it's a super cool,
super cool way to approach the entire idea of it.

(20:48):
And again, my favorite part of any of these classes
is we don't all need to agree on everything. That's
super awesome because we don't. We don't agree on everything,
and I don't spect us too. And I would say,
any you know, any group that has four guys that
do this for a living, if they all agree on everything,
chances are we need to start looking outside that group

(21:11):
because it's you know, not where we want to be.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
So I'm super excited for it.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Like I said, I can't wait to dive more into
it as to what we're all going to do and
how we're going to do it.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
So yeah, Shane.

Speaker 4 (21:26):
So yeah, you know, just like these guys said, you know,
I think you know, when I first started out doing this, uh,
there was a lot of things that were lacking in
the in the training that I got. And you know,
one of the things I'll say, and kind of to
pairrot what Brian said, is, you know it's anybody can
shoot a rifle, but to be a rifleman or a
rifle woman takes a lot of uh, you know, practice, time, dedication.

(21:51):
And you know, one of the things that I've seen throughout,
you know, as I've been teaching and taking classes is
just so act of you know, fundamentals and gun handling.
You know, they're not comfortable with the rifle, and so
you know, we try to instill those in our classes.
And with the Renaissance come up, you're going to get

(22:11):
four different perspectives of it, and all of us, you know,
everybody's highly skilled in this, and we want to take
that and transfer it over to the students with all
the different aspects that we're doing, you know, and being
able to put the work in and see the results
at the end, and having tangible results where they can
take that and apply it to whatever situation they might

(22:34):
find themselves in, you know, down the road, because every
fight is different, you know, none of us can predict
what it's going to be. But if we can give
them principles and concepts from up close and personal out
to distance and everything in between, will have done our job.
And so just like AJ said, you know, I'm super
excited with it. I think we've got a lot of
good stuff that we're going to put out and I
think people are going to be really happy with it.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
I suspect if you were to kill your video feed
but maintain your audio, that might help your connection. Yeah,
So I suspect if you kill your video feed, but
maintain your audio that may smooth out your performance. Yeah,
okay cool. And so as you guys are talking about this,

(23:20):
I'm I'm thinking about someone learning how to swim and
they're being thrown in the deep end, and are they
necessarily getting all the understanding the concepts versus Okay, we're
gonna go in the shallow end and we're gonna start slow,
and this is this is how you're gonna do. This
is what you're gonna do, and this is how you're
gonna hold your breath and this is your and this

(23:41):
is this is how I how I envision the way
you guys are are having this this event set up
where it's you know, we're not gonna we're not just
gonna be again dumping those mag after mag No, you
need to know how to run your gun first. Then
you will be able to do that absolutely. And yeah,
you could do that off the bat, but why don't
we do it much more effectively? Because every trigger press

(24:03):
is that you can learn from something from it. You
can reinforce your skill sets with every single trigger press,
as opposed to just having every magazine learn have something
valuable from it. Every trigger press can be some form
of fine tuning. So where is it all? Where's it
going to be located?

Speaker 5 (24:23):
So we're going to be at Pickens County Sportsman's Club,
which is in Jasper, Georgia, up in the mountains. It's
a beautiful club. One of the things and I'm sure
you've dealt with this because you hosted a big event
is it's hard to find ranges. It'll allow you to
shoot sixty rifles for three days on it. So we're
very fortunate that they said yes to this, and we've

(24:45):
got a great, great opportunity with multiple bays up there
and a long range facility and they're giving it over
to us for three days, so it's going to be
it's really a nice range. It's well set up for this.
I know Shane wants to stretch it out a little
bit for the most of us. You know, we'll have
at least twenty five yards or fifty yards. You don't
want to all be up close, but we'll have a

(25:06):
good chance to really do it. And there's plenty of
places to stay up here, plenty of food to eat,
so you could even bring your significant other and tell
her to head off to the venry or tell him
to go shopping or whatever's going on in your life
and get them to go do it because it's this
is going to be a very cool thing and it's
a good time of year for Georgia. You know, we're
doing this March sixth, seventh to eighth, so it'll be

(25:29):
on the coolish side, so you know, if you need
to wear a jacket, hopefully it won't be raining in Georgia.
That does happen occasionally. We get a lot of rain here,
but you can still run a rifle with your gear
on and be very comfortable while you're doing this. The
weather could be absolutely beautiful in March for US so
and they have I was just training there today. They

(25:49):
have eleven or twelve bays plus a long long range bay,
and then a very nice clubhouse and facilities everywhere for it.
So it's well appointed.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
So will it be purely rifle, will there be handgun
or mindset or will there be lectures?

Speaker 5 (26:09):
Yeah, so we're not really going to focus too much
on the pistol. I'm sure war belts are going to
show up and duty belts are going to show up,
and it could definitely be a part of the curriculum.
We're going to do something kind of interesting because all
four of us have a different topic that we're going
to delve into that's very different. But we're also going
to do something I think it's super cool. Is we

(26:29):
have we can't shoot before twelve o'clock on Sundays just
to deserve the So we've all decided to do some
sort of a lecture series or practice series. So one
is how to set up your kit, how to set
up your rifle, how to set up your equipment. I
know AJ is going to talk about that a lot.
I'm going to be teaching the black Beard man Is

(26:50):
stri fire system so that it can learn how to
run the rifle with that, and everybody's going to go
through it. I think it's going to be a really
interesting Like that's a class I really wish i'd had earlier. Uh,
you know, look at everybody's stuff and here's instead of
having you know, in the pistol industry, we have a
box of shame, which is holsters and guns that were
never going to shoot again. It's even worse than a

(27:12):
rifle industry, I'm sure you know. And so getting it
set up, I think probably we're going to see people
change their equipment around. I'll imagine at least half of
them are going to change something very significant probably yeah, yep.
And then being able to talk to aj about how
to set up a rifle. You know, maybe he could
stop these abominations of rifles that we often see that

(27:35):
don't run particularly well. But he could also talk about
how people can maintain it, set up their kit, where
lights should go on it. Uh, you know, what kind
of optic is acceptable, what kind of bargains you're making
with each each of your things, sling set up, stock,
set up, and configuration. I think you know that three
hours is going to be really beneficial for people to

(27:56):
do that, and.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
For people that aren't that well versed in this and
go into classes in general that are focused on these topics.
For me personally, those are usually my favorite parts of
the of the whole event, are these lectures, because I
just get a focus on, focus on what I'm being
told and figure out, Okay, how does this apply to me,

(28:20):
How can I do this to the how can I
integrate this into my own system? And yeah, let's see here. Yeah,
every pat Rogers class, all the Darcy classes. John dy
frayin the class. All these guys that have these great
classes and the lectures are always my favorite, and just

(28:44):
because it's yeah, there's so much more also ability to
have present the questions or better understand the concepts because
we can do that online and that then these these
kinds of conversations I compare I wouldn't compare that to
but posting something on Facebook, you're not It's not the same,

(29:07):
not even close where you have. It's much more earnest,
especially in person, and it's just so much. I appreciate
those so much. Ay J.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Yeah, well, I was just going to say, you know,
and again I can only speak to like my part
of it, right, But Shelley was kind of the one
that pose this, you know, what are the things that
you know, what's your favorite thing about classes you go
to or you wish you saw right, And that's where
kind of this for me, the setup, the setup kind

(29:42):
of came in because I mean, I guarantee you we're
gonna have four different instructors and we're going to have
four completely different rifle setups. And for me, that's one
of the things that like when I started shooting rifles,
they were like you set your rifle up like this
and you go shoot rifle, and I was like, okay, bang,
let's do this. And you know, as time goes by,

(30:03):
it's like, oh yeah, there's really a whole lot more
to this. And really it comes down to the how
I pose this to Shelley and Brian and everyone that
night with I'm more interested in the why people set
their things up like that, Like you put your light
over here, Tell me why you put your light over here,

(30:24):
because there's two very good reasons why I might want
it over here, and very good reasons I want it
over here or here or here.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
But you look at it.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
And people are like, oh, you don't know what you're doing.
Your light's in the wrong spot. Did you ask them
why their light was there? Because there might be a
really good reason why Or why is your stock extended
to this point instead of this point when it's really
supposed to be here, and so on and so forth.
So the why is really what I'm hoping to really
get into and capture with that, And I think.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
It's kind of a blessing in disguise.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
We can't shoot until noon that day anyway, so this
is going to give us some awesome time to dive
into this stuff and I'm looking forward to it and
getting everyone else's You know, Brian, why do you set
yours up like this? You know, Shane, you know who
is a you know, much different background. Why do you
set up yours like this? And Adam as well? So

(31:12):
I think it's going to be cool.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Shane.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
Well, just to kind of go off AJ's point, I mean,
I think between the four of us, you know, asking why,
and I think we drive our students to ask why too,
and we try to explain it is super important because
you know, we can get out there and we can
set say all the things that we're going to say.
If they don't understand it and don't want to ask

(31:37):
the question why, they're never going to be able to
build this individual protective system that we're trying to build
with them. So I think, you know that it's important
for the students to always be seeking the truth. But
I think the four of us as instructors, and I
think the Renaissance is really going to drive that, is
we're going to really put the why are you doing
all these things? Why are you making these particular decisions,

(31:59):
whether it's equipment or this drill that we're doing how
does this fit into the context? And if we're not
doing our job, we expect this students to ask that question, Hey,
why are we doing this? How does this fit in?
You know, we're doing a you know, skill set in
isolation or a sub skill set. How does this fit
into the big picture of this system that I'm trying

(32:19):
to build. And so, you know, being able to sit
down and do lectures with the students and having that
back and forth and having them ask questions and be
able to you know, frame it in with the context.
It's it's super important. And just like you said, you know,
you can post things on social media, but we all
know and we've all had it happen where it's misinterpreted

(32:39):
or people aren'tair quarterback and go, well they're doing this
and it's completely wrong. Well, it's missing context. And so
we're able to fulfill that while we're doing the lecture
portion of it.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
Heck yeah, heck yeah. And I love the why and
that was a big thing within primary and secondary and
urge people just give me why. Google can tell me what.
I don't really care about the what. I want to
know why, and only you can tell me the why.
And I think about yeah, ten twenty years ago, it

(33:15):
did seem like everything needed to be a cookie cutter.
And the more people were, the more experience people were getting,
the more they saw, Oh, it doesn't have to be
we don't all have to be exactly the same. And
then sharing those whys and Okay, we have a left
handed shooter and they do something that's completely different from me.

(33:38):
I still want to understand why, because I may encourage,
I may encounter someone that is that's living that same
type of life that I don't understand weirdo lefties. But
I can provide that feedback. Hey, you know what this
guy's doing this, Try this, see if this works for you,
because clearly I yeah, I don't know, but yeah, the

(34:02):
discussions are fantastic. I love the discussions, and I love
pursuing that why.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
Well. And one of the things I think too, is
that you know, what we're trying to convey here is
principles and concepts that meet an end state that's defined
success for that particular individual and so and everybody's situation
is going to be different the lifestyles that they live,
and so if we can you know, frame principles and
concepts with the desired end state. It doesn't really matter

(34:32):
how people do things, but they have to understand why
they're doing it to meet the end state that they're
trying to meet. And you know that's what we're going
to try and drive home to them.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Good stuff. Yeah, and Shane, you're still having some technical issues.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Yeah, I think it's our interwebs out here in the co.

Speaker 5 (34:58):
Coun True, haven't even electrified Tennessee yet, that's the problem. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
They just got running water last week.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Absolutely, and we got storms going on.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
It don't help at all. So as far as this
is concerned, do you have parameters as far as the
rifles calibers actions are like a lever or a bolt
action encouraged or allowed? Or are you guys focusing more
semi auto three eight versus five, five, six versus whatever.

Speaker 5 (35:33):
Yeah, because of the limits of the range where you know,
we're not doing three eight's on that range, it'll lead
up those firms, so it'll be the smaller calibers. But
we expect ar pattern rifles aka pattern rifles. Even an
odd you know, old style car being could come through it.
I wouldn't recommend a bolt or a lever gun. I
don't think they're going to survive the process of doing that.

(35:55):
But I think what the what has been sold in
America as the primary rifle now is what we'll see
everybody doing and setting up. So I imagine the large
majority it will be a rs from what we see
with everybody working through it, and it should be real interesting.
You know, my friendly Weams used to teach social lever

(36:16):
gun and he really he really loves that because there's
no site offset. You know. One of the great things
about a lever gun is you don't have any mechanical
offset with it. But he couldn't keep them running in class,
you know, they just they just won't hold up for
that long term exposure. The other good thing I think
for this is you'll get to shoot your gun enough
to see if it really functions, you know, and we'll

(36:38):
get to you know, as every class will be. We're
going to try to work through and getting you a
good solid zero that you understand that you can work
with and make sure that you have a good, good
setup with your sling and the rifle sets sets well
on you. So I think that's going to kind of
limit and curtail the types of rifles we see in
this you know, you certainly could do it with some

(36:59):
sort of ra style gun too, if it was some
automatic or a bolt gun. But boy, it's going to
be a lot of work for you. It's like taking
a red Dot class with a revolver so which I've had.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Is there a round count estimation?

Speaker 5 (37:16):
I think we haven't talked precisely, but you know, we're
over three days, so we're probably talking somewhere eight hundred
twelve hundred round something like that. With people maybe a
bit more or less. I tend to leave more opening
on mine. You can shoot as much as you want to.
We'll have some open sessions where I set up a
goal or a drill and they'll practice as much as

(37:38):
they can afford or as much as they're able to bring.
Since we'll have traveling students, I know we're going to
try to keep it on the lighter side so that
they don't have to ship so much into it. But
we'll have a place from the ship to also. I
remember when you did your summit, that was one of
the big things was getting AMMO there for a pistol
and rifle.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah. Yeah, So regarding the specific topics you guys are
going to teach, why don't we get into how that's
applicable to the everyday citizen, because I think that would
be that would be a nice thing to show. This
is why this is, This is where the value is
for for for potential students because it is applicable.

Speaker 5 (38:20):
So for me, I'm going to be teaching really rule
four UH, and I'm going to be teaching idea of
shot calling relative to dirty backgrounds and foregrounds cool. We
find a lot of problems for human beings visually UH
when they get involved in a situation that requires a
certain level of focus but not overly focused. We know

(38:42):
people get into detailed focus. The fulvill cone is the
area they get into one to three degrees of focus.
We call that tunnel vision UH. And we see that
quite frequently and mostly our classes teach that sort of idea.
I've seen it with pistol optics where people are still focused,
they're still shooting from focus on the dot. So I'm

(39:03):
going to try to really open up their vision a
little bit and give them some ideas about how to
work against the background where there's some consequences if you
shoot through something or you shoot past something. I'm also
going to set up some different shapes of targets, so
they'll have to make transitions and there may be a
no shoot in between it, so they have to work
on their muzzle discipline as they do it. I'm going

(39:23):
to work on start and stop signals with lasers and
designating patterns, and then the final thing is I'm going
to work on a concept that's called inhibition, which is
incredibly important in shooting that doesn't get much talking about.
The idea of inhibition is the mind's always attracted to
whatever it's interested in the most. So to give you

(39:43):
the easiest one, most people track their dot while they
shoot instead of looking at the target. So the mind
has to learn the inhibition not to watch the shiny
bright thing go up and down, but to keep the
eyes on the target. And that's a fancy term for
what that is. But also we have and who needs
to be shot first or where the motion is first.

(40:04):
The eye is always drawn and for science did a
great study on this with Nervous to Goods that you know,
officers holding somebody at gunpoint, when the eye rapidly moves
from point to point, they're almost always behind in the
reactionary gap because of that. So this is the idea
of getting them to open their vision and to see something,
and to make the range a little more living as

(40:26):
much as I can with paper targets, you know, relative
to the task, but give them the feeling of stretching.
Of the problem with fighting is the stretch, the cognitive stacking,
along with cycling from tool. Whether it's necessary starting and
stopping is a big portion of it. We talk about
that quite frequently. You know, some people have a hard
time getting started. They don't have clear ghost signals. Some

(40:49):
people have a hard time getting stopped. Once they get going,
they can't get stopped. So I'm going to try to
make a living breathing apparatus out of very simple things.
It'll be very redneck art, as it is on the
range often, but the idea of stretching the mind a
little bit, really improving the vision relative not getting sucked
into the optic as they're shooting, being able to see

(41:11):
the background, the foreground, understanding the consequences of it, giving
themselves a real chance to start. I think it'll be
super interesting for him. I've been working on this quite
a while. This portion of it of combining shot calling,
whether you've got to hit and then the shot calling
also be as if it hits something in the background
and the pass through the deputy that had the shooting

(41:33):
inside the mall and had the pass through to hit
somebody directly behind it. You know, those are the things
that will haunt you for life if you're not careful.
But primarily our training doesn't really teach us to do that.
It teaches us to stand and deliver quite frequently. So
there'll be some movement in this. There will also be
some cover, moving to cover, so they'll have options of

(41:53):
stand and deliver, shooting on the move, going to cover
at the same time.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
And to think of how much training that's available that's
on a sterile square range where you're not thinking of
any of that, and most of the for me, most
of the training I'm doing, Yes, it is fun, Yes
I do enjoy it, but I want to be taking
skill sets home where I can apply it to myself

(42:19):
and I can also turn around and apply it with
teach others. And if I'm living just on a square
range that's sterile and not thinking about these things, I
am doing myself at disservice. That sounds fantastic. And this
kind of goes back to what I was saying about
supporting those sources that you found to be beneficial. When

(42:40):
you're hearing this, if you like what Brian just said,
you might want to be looking up not only this
event coming up, but his own classes.

Speaker 5 (42:51):
You know, was interesting. This idea came about. I was
on Curserino's First Person Defender and I watched the cameraman
work and there ability to pick up things in the
background was exceptional. And so I sat down and talked
to them and I was like, hey, how do you
look at things? You know? And I found they had
a very different process than a lot of us approach.

(43:11):
I thought that was super interesting for people, and then
I kind of morphed it to shooting classes a little bit.
Is how to look at a different way, how to
use the eye differently. You know, we often talk about
techniques and especially equipment, but the real problem is we
all see very very similar and very differently, and it's

(43:32):
sort of a guessing game of how people look at
things and how the eye is working. I know Aj
does some of it in his class, but you know,
the idea of teaching the eye to seewell, you know,
like when you go through post you know, everybody's out
to kill you. You watch diank kell or Die, you.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Know, a couple of times.

Speaker 5 (43:52):
Yeah, And if you're really lucky, you get a good
FTO and they teach you to look at the world
in the right way. Yes, And the first thing they
usually teach you is don't jump, don't don't get into
it too quickly, have a really deep look.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (44:05):
You know, Masada up says that it says look deeply
before you take an action. Uh, And that's kind of
that's that was the idea of these these cameramen. They
look deeply at the world differently, and their eye was
drawn to anything that could be out of place in
the background. And I knew in that moment that as
much as I thought about it, I wasn't seeing the
world the same way they were. So, you know, it's
an exceptionally unique experience to share with people.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
And it's funny that you bring up, yeah, the law
enforcement side, because I'm thinking of my own personal experience,
whether I have I might have a writer with me
and we're driving, and I might point something out that
it might not be completely obvious to the writer. But yeah,
just looking a little bit more deeply and I'm picking
up more or we're unseen with a newer officer. And

(44:53):
did you see did you see what his pattern of
behavior was as you were talking to him?

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Well?

Speaker 1 (44:57):
No, oh, he was doing this. That's this. Did you
see where's he kept on looking in a specific direction? No? Yeah,
I love it. I absolutely love it. Now the real
question now I have is did Aj just completely ditch us?

Speaker 5 (45:14):
He did?

Speaker 1 (45:15):
He must have, He must have.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
So no, my my power sources is being less than.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Cooperative. So I'm trying to plug this in.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
We're really good at rifles, not technology. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Yeah, listen, if I can turn my red dot on,
that's about the limit of my electronic experience turning it on.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Problem.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
So AJ has had it so bad on his red
dot pistols. He's had the blue screen of death.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
How did you know?

Speaker 1 (45:55):
But I also thinking about how when I hosted my course,
basically all these offerings were kind of a sampling of
a bigger class. And that's the same with this. So
if people really like what you just said, what is
the name of the class that people are going to

(46:17):
want to be looking for if they want the full experience?

Speaker 5 (46:22):
Well, funny you should ask. I've been developing a new course,
and I'm going to call it a pistol tactician, which
is going to work on this. When I originally started,
most what I was teaching was force on force. It
was from the first signs of danger to the legal aftermath.
So it wasn't I had, you know, I had an
mma gym, so I had padded floors and we could

(46:43):
do a lot of work in there. And it was
a two and a half day course, and it was
this kind of free flowing not to skill Craig Douglas's idea,
but laboratory of violence where we're continuing to work at
all these options available. And I realized in shooting classes
we don't have a lot of that. We all get
trapped by the methodology of flowing from one technique to

(47:06):
the next. And here's you know, if you look at
our courses, as well developed as they are, they're very
similar in aspects. So I'm going to be doing a
new class that's going to be trying to put all
of this together. Where it goes from just the simple
start of not having equity in the start, so your
hands are in different positions than you're use capable and

(47:27):
useful to adding movement to everything we do, to adding
cover and the use of cover, to using a background,
to having start and stops. And we're going to finish
that class up with image based decisional drills that my
wife came up with. We're going to use cards to
designate decisional factors. You look at the card and then
you make the decision and shoot or not shoot, or

(47:48):
pepper spray or do whatever is appropriate in that thing.
Because I have found while the armed citizens are exceptionally
well trained, they all send to be very myopically judgmental
about how easy it is to do some of these
things under pressure because they don't get a lot of stacking.
So we're going to stack tools, We're going to stack

(48:10):
decisions on it, and that'll be my new offering next year.
I've been in the mad scientist mode in my laboratory
in my basement, really trying to work that class out.
Now it's in my inner game of shooting a little bit,
but that's more of a deep dive on how you
work the difference with it. So but all my pistol
courses reflect this a little bit. But that's going to

(48:30):
be the new one for this year. So hey, great segue.
Thank you, brother.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Appreciate My follow up question with that, For someone who
is not necessarily a new shooter but maybe new to training,
would you suggest they start with that or go with
a like a basic pistol class and then go to that.

Speaker 5 (48:49):
I think as long as you can draw safely from
the holster and you're able to meet the beginning phase
of any training is you know how to safely work
the gun, and you can from the holster, and you
can hit the target. If you can do those three things,
I think it might be a better place to start
here than it would to be at another course. We

(49:09):
found that with the actual complete combatant course, where it
becomes an audit phase where you figure out, hey, here's
where I have some really definitive weaknesses and I can
fill it in. It's all relative the instructor. My good
friend Claude Warner and I talked about how force and
force fails a lot of people. You know, either the
opposing force becomes murderous by nature and nobody can win,

(49:31):
or you always win so we get the outcome you want,
or the instructor is always forcing it into their particular
skill set or venue. So the idea of this course
is to give them a safe chance to make mistakes
and not to be failure averse, but to embrace the
failure as a curve of learning, and it's necessary for
the process. I think if we introduce that sooner in shooting,

(49:53):
we'll do a lot better, and it'll drive people out
of the accuracy mode that they want to shelter in
where they don't get better. Sometimes they're always hiding. You know,
if I can put all the bullets in the same hole, well,
let's see what it feels like to do this thing,
and let's see what we can learn from it, and
have somebody who's experienced in managing your EQ to actually

(50:14):
get to the next level. I think Craig Douglas does
an exceptional job in that ECQC of managing high level emotions.
So the idea is to I think, I don't think
you have to be a great shooter to come to
this class. I think you have to just want to
improve and actually maybe face the real gravitas of carrying
a firearm, you know. And the one thing that always

(50:38):
I was struck by after Force on force classes is
how many people came to me and said, I hope
I never get in a fight. Yeah, which is quite
opposite of the bravado weops and see on the internet.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yeah. I recently went through a Level one instructor class
through Alert and I had some reservations. I left it
and very happy with what the Yeah, the course, it
was good and I appreciated what was being taught. There
was one thing they did that I really liked. There
was a a you could see there was a difference

(51:10):
in officers responses when we were running sims versus just
blue guns, and there were some there were some times
where Okay, we're going to go over some concepts and
we're going to run some we're gonna we're going to
run some some scenarios, but we're only using blue guns.
And it became much more calm and much more There
was so much more thinking and problem solving versus just

(51:34):
running in and shooting as quick as possible because you
don't want to get shot. And just that that was
that was a cool thing to see firsthand, whereas most
of the time, most of the training I go to,
it's either or, but it's not both. And this they
integrated blue guns when this could have been sims. But
why we're going to get some good reps out of

(51:54):
this by not even including the sims at this point,
and I thought, oh, that's really cool. Should we let
ahu talk now? Okay, now, so what we're going to
do is we're going to take a little rink and
then we're going to talk to AJ and then yeah, Ag,

(52:15):
you can to talk about your segment, how it integrates
with normal Earth people. Then we'll go to Shane. But
right now, I am going to click on a button
that will run some ads for one minute and thirty
eight seconds, and that will kill our MIC's, our cameras
and they will be right back up. So get your
drink if you need to go to the bathroom. If

(52:37):
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And that's how it's done now, AJ, you're going to

(54:29):
be teaching.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Some stuff, yes, so completely contradictory to Brian.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
I'm just going to stand and deliver the whole damn time.

Speaker 5 (54:39):
So thanks really got.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
No but ingest yes, but also no so for me obviously.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
You know, I think Shane mentioned it earlier. For some reason,
people think rifles are super easy and I throw a
rifle in your hand and now you're a rifleman, so
you can just do all sorts of stuff, right, And
that's just simply not the case.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
They require work and they require dedication, and.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
For my part, a lot of that's going to be
focused on, you know, building the structure behind the gun
that's required to actually shoot the gun at a high
level of performance, so you can actually do the stuff
that Brian's needing you to do and make the decisions
so that the gun handling stuff is taking care of.
But a lot of us, you know, we just throw

(55:36):
a gun in our pocket, we pull really hard and
then we think we're good at shooting rifles, and yeah,
that's not how that works. So we're gonna deal a
lot with that and understanding, you know, much like much
like grip the structure on a pistol, we need to
work the structure behind a rifle or a carbine as well,

(55:57):
and understand what we do behind the gun does have
an effect on the gun. It's not just simply pull
it hard into your shoulder and start slamming triggers.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
So we'll deal a lot with that.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
We'll get into some of the other other mechanics and
reading the sites in recoil and understanding what those things
are telling us about our structure and how we can
not so much manipulate, but how we can change our
structure in order to get the gun's behavior to do
the things we wanted to do. Once we get a
little bit deeper into that, we'll get into some of

(56:34):
the mechanics, you know, for me, the mounting of the gun.
You know, I came up in a world where I
spent an entire day just doing ready updrills from the
low ready and that's all we did, right, and I
was no better at lifting the gun onto the target
by the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Than when we started.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
Now with a you know, a much deeper understanding of
actually mounting the gun. What what I'm trying to achieve
with the amount of the gun, and how that sets
me up for the shooting. After we'll get into some
of the different ways to mount the gun, you know,
whether coming from high or lows or hunts or whatever.
You know, wherever you want to you want the gun

(57:12):
to come from. But talk about the mechanics of those
things and why one might make more sense in a
certain situation than another might make sense.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
You know, we talk about the shooting world ping cyclic.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
For the longest time, everything was low ready, everything on
the car being. Then it was high ready, everything on
the carping, and now we're somewhere in between low ready
and high ready on the carving. And then it was
never looked through your glass. Yesterday I saw a video
of someone talking about how he only looks through his glass.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
I'm not sure that's the right answer, but it was interesting.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
It was interesting to see someone actually going out there
and being like, I look through my glass all the time,
and I was like, okay, I don't, but yeah, So
we'll talk about those things, and we'll maybe get a
better understanding on why it's important I need to be

(58:05):
able to mount the gun from high readies, from low readies,
from different positions, and what that's going to gain me,
and what it's going to cost me, and all the
aspects going into there. I hope, if there's time, get
into some of the mechanics, especially on reloading the car,
being though you know, I hate that we're at this

(58:27):
place in the world where we've believed that reloading guns
doesn't matter because of the round count in our guns,
and to which I will tell you sure until your
gun goes dry, and it's the most important skill.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Set you never practiced in your entire life.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
So we will get into I hope to get into
some of those those mechanics and why I might choose
one method of reloading the car being versus another, specifically
keeping the mount on the gun versus unmounting the gun,
so on and so forth.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
So yeah, so that's that's kind of where I'm headed
with mine.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
That reminds me of also the argument about carrying a
spare mag, and for me, it's carrying a spar mag
mostly just in case of a malfunction. That's not that
I'm worried about it running out of AMMO, but doesn't
really apply when you're caring a revolver.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
What because revolvers don't malfunction.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
No, because they've never run an AMMO.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I've seen that movie too.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
And shade your slot what you'll teach and how it
applies to them normal Earth people.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
Okay, Shelley came up with a really cool name system building,
biomechanical concepts, body and the gun structure and the fifth
point of contact. Yeah, that's all her, so big kudos
to her. But basically, we're gonna start to stretch our
legs a little bit. We're gonna maximize that seventy five
yards that we have at the range. And what I

(01:00:01):
think is important to integrate into a system is a
little bit of distance. And you know, we'll put context
with it too, because you know, can we engage you know,
are they truly a threat and can we articulate it
at certain distances or is there a point where you
know we have to cut it off? Now obviously that's
that situational dependent. But with some of the folks that

(01:00:23):
you know, we anticipate we're going to get in the class.
Uh you know they live rurally. Maybe it's for home
and property protection, and you know we can talk about, hey,
why are you justified taking this shot? And so what
we're going to do is we're going to do a
lot of positional shooting with the applications of the fundamentals
and marksmanship and also sling usage, because that's a big

(01:00:45):
thing that I've really integrated in because so often we
see you know, it looks just like a tactical necklace
with a sling. That's all it's there for is to
let the gun hang. And and there's a lot of
uses for the sling. It can add stability if we
have a mounted right and we have an adjustable sling,
so we can lengthen and shorten we need need for

(01:01:08):
those particular positions. The lower to the ground we get,
we get a more solid, stable and durable position, and
we're looking for stability. But one of the things when
we get lower to the ground and we start to
gain stability is we start to lose mobility. And as
you know Brian was saying earlier, you know, mobility is
important in this. You know, we might get into a
position fire a couple shots well aimed shots, and then

(01:01:29):
we might move to a piece of cover or maybe
we're exiting stage left or right. So how do we
get in a solid position with sling usage to add
stability but also minimize the loss of of mobility. And
so we're gonna word all that, and then one of
the other things that I think is important when we
add a little bit of distance is people gain confidence

(01:01:50):
in the applications of fundamentals and marksmanship and their ability
to perform, which transfers over as we get close. And
so I think that's an important aspect of when we're
building a system, as we should be from up close
and personal, extreme close quarters with a rifle all the
way out to whatever distance it is. And to kind
of quote the late Colonel Cooper is if as far

(01:02:16):
as a rifle goes, if I can see it and
I'm within the capability as of a rifle, i should
be able to hit it. And I think that's an
important thing to put into a system as we're building it.
And so that'll be kind of the aspects that I'll
be bringing into the Renaissance to key in with everybody else.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Cool. So what's Adam going to be presenting.

Speaker 5 (01:02:41):
Adam has an extensive background and law enforcement, military, and
it seems like all his fights have been real dirty affairs.
So this is basically he's going to be the guy
putting you in the dirt and shooting over the hood
of the car, and very unusual positions, very quick positions,
and work around that. You know, he runs Defenders USA,

(01:03:02):
and Adam brings a passion to this that I find
sadly lacking in a lot of instructors. He is, you know,
a CrossFit instructor himself, but you don't have to be
in great shape to do this. What he's going to
do is teach you how you could do this if
you had what we more like advanced fundamentals, because you're
losing a couple of your regular fundamentals, maybe your stance

(01:03:22):
or your grip is compromised in that position, and get
you to work around it. So it's going to be
really interesting things from his side on it. I hope
I did that. I only heard him talk about it once,
so I think that's primarily what he's going to be
doing on it, and it should be really interesting. You know,
he's he is a full time instructor. That's all he does.
Now and I've been to several of his classes. He's outstanding.

(01:03:43):
So you guys are really going to enjoy him.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
So do you have it in a bit of a
rotation or you start with X amount of hours Brian,
then you go AJ and okay, So then for Adams,
if you're depending on your physical condition, take ad pill
before going to at Adams preload because.

Speaker 5 (01:04:05):
Our six hundred up drills with AJ.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Yeah, that's all day.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
You'll be fine and if not, I'll send you to
see Shane. He'll fix you up.

Speaker 5 (01:04:17):
Fine, I'm up, they see me, I'm down. That sounds
like Chames drill.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
So yeah, absolutely, here's some foot powder and motor and
drive on.

Speaker 5 (01:04:29):
You know, people worry about that though, They worry about
the physicality of this. So we're going to We're going
to meet everybody at their level and their capability what
they're able to do. But you know, that's one thing
people don't think about the rifle. It's exhausting to carry
a rifle. And John Farnham said the best in one
of his classes. He said, you know, it's one thing
to be able to shoot, it's an entirely different thing

(01:04:51):
to live with the rifle and he said, when he
got in Vietnam, it was so different to have this
thing with him all the time. So what a great
opportunity for you to carry it for three days and
sort it out and get the feel for it. You know,
we it used to be we'd see a lot of
people show up with body armor and then by lunch
all the armor would come out of it because it's

(01:05:12):
it's hard to live in this kit and this gear.
So we're not gonna beat anybody up, but it'll be different,
you know, You'll you'll feel a little bit differently. I
know all of us are making videos of things they
should practice before they come to it, so they got
a real chance to get good at this and to
develop some coordination and strength before they have to get
in class.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Now, what about the most important aspect meals?

Speaker 5 (01:05:36):
Mm, Well, we have a Shelley. You guys heard her name,
and that's my wife, and I call her the Indispensable
organizational Wizard. It's a title I completely made up and
it's absolutely true. And she has already arranged a beautiful
meal for us on Saturday night. Another meal that's going
to be fed is of course, I'm h K sponsored

(01:05:59):
trainer we're going to be giving away an HK MR
five five six, So that is a thirty eight hundred
dollars value that somebody's going to walk home with. So
we're gonna take really good care. And you know, part
of this was the idea of not only to have
a class, but build a community and allow people to
break bread together, spend time, have a fantastic prize table.

(01:06:21):
Because she has she gets sponsorships like nobody else. Nobody
says no to my wife. I hear a good on
the phone and they're like, oh, they're losing money. They
just don't know it yet. And she's really good at
doing this part of it. So it's going to be
really interesting taking care of everybody good good, good dinner
together on Saturday night. I think we're doing it at

(01:06:42):
the range, so it's just instantaneous so we don't lose
a bunch of people. And I have to work with a
restaurant on it, and the rest of it will be
bringing your own stuff and work your way through it.
It's gonna be fun. It's gonna we do this with
the quest, which is our Red Dot Pistol thing and
the ideas. It's kind of like a pro am event.
The instructors stay with you, they spend time with you, you

(01:07:04):
eat together, you get a chance to really get to
know them instead of here's my block, now move on,
you know. So we'll all be out there working together.
I think it's going to be interesting that way.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
And you said it's estimated about sixty sixty slots.

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
Yeah, yep, that's cool. Really so far fifteen each, you
know each and that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
So so far? What are the HK is one of
the brands that's associated. Who else do you have on board?

Speaker 5 (01:07:36):
I don't know who all she's got. I know she's
been been hitting the list yet, so I should I
should know better. I you know, she definitely HK is
our biggest sponsor right now. I don't know who else.
As far as the rifle, she's been hitting everybody because
this is a you know, a new group of sponsors
for us. Our usual group won't be involved like we

(01:07:57):
usually have because they don't do it. So I don't know.
I have to check with her. But she's she's really
good at getting sponsorships in for this stuff. I think
last year at the Quest, everybody left with a prize.
It's sixty shooters and everybody got their name called it
seemed like and everybody. We gave away twelve guns last
year at the Quest, So it's just phenomenal what she does.

(01:08:19):
So you're going to come out of this very excited.
At the end of the day. It won't be a
bag of junk. I guarantee you that AJ said it.
I wish, I wish we had prize tables like this
in competition, you know, because it was all good stuff.
I know Holli Sun's jumped in too, so that's that's
one of them. They've are optic side. They've sent us

(01:08:39):
some their a MS, their aim system and some of
that so interesting stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
So how did you get HK to actually respond? That's
that's the real question here. I didn't think they liked us.

Speaker 5 (01:08:58):
There's a there's a new thing though. There's Hkusa oh okay,
and they work out of Columbus, Georgia, and they have
really tried to move away from uh, you suck and
we hate you into you know, you don't suck and
we love you. And so they have forged a lot
of brand ambassadors. Now Adam and I are both brand ambassadors,

(01:09:22):
and I'm their sponsored trainer and there's a whole group
where they're really pushing forward. I think my boss said,
we only have about one percent of the total market,
uh as far as America, but uh, you know now
right now, I imagine there's a big hole in the
pistol market coming up. Uh people slightly put in there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
But uh.

Speaker 5 (01:09:45):
Yeah, so that you know, we had three new models
this year because the real problem seems to be, you know,
the German business model is very straightforward and only one
thing at a time. So HK got the CC nine
and the A one, the from the K model and
then a new five five six with updated so still
h K quality and value. But USA is kind of

(01:10:07):
driving it and they understand our market where the Germans
don't because there's no consumer carry, you know, there's no
alarm citizen entry in that way. They just they sell
military law enforcement contracts. So their degree of service was
very different relative to the individuals. So I think we're
going to see a big difference with h K, U

(01:10:28):
s A doing it. My boss, Bill Dermody is just
outstanding in the support he's shown for everybody in the
shooting sports. So yeah, there you go, I earned my
money shield.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
That's right. That's right. Multiple friends, Yeah, multiple friends are
are ye. So yeah, I'm like, I'm thinking, like Riley's
on there and uh huh on Korea and.

Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
Yeah, yep they what am I young instructors Giddy Wilson,
who's up and coming just doing a fantastic job. They
just brought him on board, so they're really reaching out
to the market. And then they sponsor we do the Mingle,
which is for women in the firearms industry, and they
sponsor that in a big way every year. So they're
really trying to change things, get involved and be a

(01:11:19):
part of it. And then we got new models, so
everybody's super excited. It only took us seven years to
bring the CC nine out, so but it works.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
So what is your carry then?

Speaker 5 (01:11:33):
For me, I carry the VP nine. I carry the
VP nine F since you know, I'm a pretty big guy,
I can carry a pretty big gun. I'm running up
with a light and everything. But I have been working
with the CC nine. I don't like small guns. You know,
I got big hands and they get all over it.
This is an interesting gun. Though it's shootable, it's actually

(01:11:55):
easier to shoot at speed than it is in precision mode.
Is what I found out it's very precise gun. They
put seven hundred and fifty thousand rounds through this gun,
and they actually fix the takedown lever issue that's plagued
so many of these guns, where the harmonic tends to
brittle metal. So this gun shoots really well, you know,
with an optic on it carrying twelve plus one. It

(01:12:17):
hides magnificently, but it's got a weird enough grip that
you can actually get a hold of it with big
hands and shoot it pretty well. So it's been very
interesting for me, and I think, you know, it's late.
A lot of other people have already filled this thing,
but it's a very big difference. It's got a different backstrap,
two different backstraps, so you can change your reach to

(01:12:38):
the trigger. Instead of having a trigger that's forward, you
can change the reach to the trigger, which is very
helpful on It comes optics ready right out of the box,
so it's a hideable pistol. It is definitely deep concealment.
I know Brett Newmeimer has been doing a lot of
work with it with the Enigma, which is another Filster
sponsors us too, but he's able to hide that gun

(01:12:59):
below the belt line and still get a one second
draw out of it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
So yeah, but he's also a freak of nature.

Speaker 5 (01:13:05):
He is a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
Yeah, yeah, he how many. It was a bunch of
years ago we did a video shoot and he wanted
up coming over and it was just great to have
him there. But we had fun. Yeah, we had fun.
So going back to the rifle renaissance, A j what rifle?

(01:13:32):
What is your what is going to be your go
to rifle for this? And how is it configured differently
than anyone else?

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Oh? Good question?

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Are you a left like that?

Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Okay, good god man, Come on now, I know I
hang out with Tim.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
Herron too long and that's where everyone I'm a left now,
So probably my my go to and this this may
change before the actual rifle renaissance because I've got something
in the works coming then might be interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
So we'll see.

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
As far as sub guns for use and so on
and so forth.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
But uh yeah, so we'll see. We'll see if I can.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
Get that off the ground before before rifle renaissance, I
may run that for that, however, chances are I'll probably
be running kind of my go to, my go to rifle,
which is a Bravo Company upper on a Aero Precision
lower that I put together years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Obviously running a battle comp Enterprises.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
Muzzle device because I love that thing, and of course
Alan's a good friend of mine. Brendon and Hollison a
ms on top. I run a A five.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
Extension on it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:57):
I much prefer that h TR stock as far as everything.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Oh and the forty five degree safeties. That's pretty much
the whole build.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
Throw surefire out on the end and I teach with
them all on there so people can see what I'm
seeing and stuff like that. But yeah, that's there's really
the only thing that might be fairly different is I

(01:15:28):
While I'm running the A five system, I also have
the bootleg Bult carrier for suppress stuff, which I really
like so far. I'm not sure if I'm going to
leave it on there. But the gun's just set up
really well. It's balanced really well, and for me, I
much prefer kind of more of the weight to the
gun pushed to the rear of the gun for manipulations

(01:15:50):
and so on. So that's that's what I'll be running.
Mid length gas system. Nothing crazy, pretty standards. It's a
sixteen inch nich not my favorite, but very easy to
travel with.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
What would you rather have it be?

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
I much prefer a fourteen to five Okay, yeah, much
prefer thirteen nine is great. I like thirteen nine, thirty seven,
They're all good, but honestly, there's just there's something with
the sweet spot of like an a five with a
fourteen to five on the front set up really well.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
I just like that that impulse a lot better for me.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
So cool, Shane. How about for you? What rifle will
you be bringing and how is it different from others?

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
My go to rifle, my work rifle, as I call it,
my teaching and shooting rifle, is just a stock Christiansen
Arms carbon fiber barrel with a hollow sun red dot
on the top. I've got a insight flashlight at the
six o'clock and then I run the Vickers sling on

(01:17:01):
it and it's pretty much stock. But I teach it
and shoot it in all my classes and I shoot
out to four hundred with it without a problem. So
that's kind of my do everything go to gun and
so that's what I'll be bringing to the Renaissance.

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
Gotcha, gotcha? And I'm going to guess Brian is going
to have some form of HK.

Speaker 5 (01:17:22):
Yeah, I'm the Boujie one Boujie as hell. Surefire aims
on the top running flat lined sling, which I really
like their slings. Flat line does a good job. It's
got a great slider on it, so it's super useful.
And I use this a forty five degree handstock on
it just to give me a good gripping, and it's

(01:17:43):
running sixteen. I have eleven five, but I'm not a
big fan of short barrel rifles except for very exceptionally
well defined use areas. My range got shut down because
of the preponderance of small short barreled rifles on it
because the decimals was so loud. Oh yeah, you know,
especially when we're going muzzle breaks with all of that.

(01:18:06):
And you know what, there's there's a bit of science
that maybe that can cuss the protocols not real good
for you in shoot houses or being next to it. So,
and as AJ was saying, I think the sixteen is
easier to just travel with overall, going from state to
state to state, and it's just a regular HK, you know,
rifle with it comes with a forty five degree safety

(01:18:29):
on it. It's AMBI. It's got a great trigger in it. Yeah,
I know, I don't have to do anything, just just
a normal one. So I don't know how I got here,
but I'm really grateful, That's all I could say.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
So when you compare that to other brands, other ars,
what do you seeing the difference with? This is turning
into an AK episode or an AKH. Yeah, an HK episode.

Speaker 5 (01:18:54):
So we're the coalition of Coughs of the ar world.
Because it's a piston driven rifle, so it unlock really hard,
which means it has very little rise to the muscle.
So you know, like when you're on the True four
to sixteen running full auto, that gun doesn't move. It
doesn't go up on you at all. Now with the
new version that they came out with, now it'll accept

(01:19:15):
all mags. Before it was very mag finicky with it,
but it's got a very different unlocking system to it
when it fires, So it takes a little bit of
getting used to something really interesting though. We're giving a
lifetime guarantee on the barrels Now if you shoot it out,
they'll replace it and put a new one in for you.

(01:19:37):
This gun comes from the factory with a one point
two MLA guarantee on it, and I can tell you
the truth, if you put good m on it and
you're a good shooter, you can do better than that. So, yes,
it cost a lot, but I think we all get
there eventually anyway. It's just in parts, you know. So
this is a good one right off the top, and
it's just real shootable and set up well for most everybody.

(01:20:01):
I'm shocked at how much I actually like it. My
true precision rifle that I've been shooting forever has gone
into the cabinet. I just picked this one up all
the time, and I find it. Their economics are good. Now.
The big thing is it's a little heavier. You know,
they did cut a little bit of weight off it,
but it's significantly a pound heavier. You feel it when

(01:20:22):
you pick it up. So but that's nice for recoil
impulse too. The gun just stays flat. It's really easy.
There's nothing to it as long as you do your job.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
So what was your precision rifle that's now collecting dust?

Speaker 5 (01:20:37):
I had an arshol Democracy, which was a brand that
first came out, and they had a hell of a deal,
you know. It had a shilling barrel, in it, and
it was kind of put together by a bunch of
SF guys and they were supposed to make a hundred
of them and mine is number forty nine and I
think they only got to fifty before they stopped making them.
But it's a very sweet fourteen and a half set

(01:20:59):
up with it with a chilling barrel and it accepts
twenty five grains and it's incredibly accurate. It was great,
but it wasn't light either. You know, it was a
heavy gun, well set up guyslee trigger and all that stuff,
and I really enjoyed that rifle, but it doesn't get
much shooting anymore. I did put an LPVO on it

(01:21:20):
for different, different purpose now and I took it to
a intermediate car being class to shoot it in, which
was out to six hundred yards. It did fine with that.
You know you're floating by that time. But with seventy
five grain, it's not a bad rifle to do work on.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
Good deal. So follow up question, if you were to
give someone a bit of advice for their rifles for
home use, what are the bear bear requirement bare minimum
requirements for an AAR fifteen or let's just say it's

(01:21:57):
semi automatic six seven sixty by three nine five four
five y three nine one of those even three hundred blackout.
What are the bare minimum requirements do you guys have
for you for a defensive rifle in one of those
medium calibers, Brian, uh.

Speaker 5 (01:22:17):
So, you know I'm always going to be the AR
five five six guy. I really like the round to
really understand it. I think for most people, having a
gun that's light enough for them to move around easily
and it's accessible and easy to shoot with just a
red dot on it, just an optic on it and

(01:22:37):
then some sort of light on it is the best thing. Now,
sling would be great, You'll never you never do it.
I'd expect you'd want some sort of ranger band or
something on it to keep that sling and patrol ready position.
And with that you can do pretty good work around
the house and have a pretty sufficient one. Now being

(01:22:59):
the boot boy I am, I also have an SP
five that's set up for inside the house with a
can on it, because you know, James Bond is cool, right,
but it's it's a great gun for that, especially when
nobody has earpro on. You know. The one big thing
about shooting rifles indoors or inside cars. Is it's hard
on the noggin? Yeah, I think all of us can

(01:23:21):
attest to that. It's really bad. So it's something you
really want to think about. As you know, is it
easy enough for anybody in the family to pick up
and shoot? And I'll tell you what that sp five
there's nobody in the house that can't shoot it. Even
my grandkids take it out and shoot it under supervision
of course, So that's a pretty good way. There's some
pretty good pistol caliber car beings now that you know,

(01:23:42):
maybe they run, maybe they don't. AJ can speak to
that more. Ours ours runs pretty good. But I would say,
as far as a rifle goes, if you have something
that works and it needs to be, you know, I
would get a thousand rounds through it and make sure
that you're comfortable with how it works. With a light
on it, with an optic, you're pretty good shape.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
And just like what we were discussing at the very beginning,
those early classes were a great opportunity to see what
you're made out of, but also see what your rifle's
made out of and make sure that it's able to function. AJ.
How about you, what are the minimum parameters.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
Yeah, I mean I can't stray much much farther than that.
For me, a house gun is a gun that you
can actually use, You can pick it up, listen. For
a long time, I was all about the heavy guns. Obviously,
I shoot nineteen elevens and twenty elevens. I mean, come on,
and then you live with a gun for a year

(01:24:41):
and a half all the time, and you're like, oh man,
that kind of sucks for a housegun. I am less
concerned about the weight, but I'm probably not going to
choose the heaviest gun I have because maneuverability and everything.
So something you can handle, something you can reasonably maneuver
and get around doors and do stuff you're going to do.

(01:25:01):
Whether or not you're going to be doing that, I'm
not saying that's a good idea. That's a whole nother
subject of what you should and shouldn't be doing.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
But something you.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
Can operate a maneuver. It's got to have a light
on it, period. It has to have a light on it,
red dot. I would much prefer it to have a
red dot.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
Especially if we're going to play games in the dark.

Speaker 3 (01:25:25):
So, yeah, slings, I'll tell you honestly, without running a
If I'm not running a pistol, I really don't care.
I have a preference, but I don't care if it
has a sling on it or not. I think it's
a great thing to have, but when I'm naked and
shooting guns, it's really not important to me to have it,
because train like you fight drunken naked.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
So, oh, my eyes, you're welcome.

Speaker 4 (01:25:55):
I can see that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
Well, you're going to see more of it in March.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
And you know, and there's an audio version of this.
They have no idea what's on the screen right now.
He's not wearing dants.

Speaker 3 (01:26:10):
There was nothing in the invite that said pants were mandatory, Sarah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
But yeah, so you know, kind of kind of the
basic things.

Speaker 3 (01:26:19):
I would much rather kind of like brian'son, I would
much rather you get a gun that you know is
going to work, right, and today it's guns that work
well are at a way better price point than they
ever have been.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
You know, go get yourself a gun that's going.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
To work, put a thousand rounds through it, and I
would much rather you shoot those thousand rounds than do
anything else, and just get good and comfortable with that gun.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
And that's all I care about.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
So yeah, so before we go to Shane, I from AJ,
I'm kind of getting an Andy Samberg vibe.

Speaker 5 (01:26:54):
It's just me.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Saying it like that. It's a positive thing, it's a
good thing. I'm a fan Lonely Island, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
So I can be on a boat in like two
minutes exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:27:21):
It takes you that long.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
Listen. I do what I can. Got my Santana's shamp.

Speaker 5 (01:27:28):
I like it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:31):
I can't disagree with anything that Brian or a J said. Uh.
You know, definitely a light.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:27:37):
You know, we need to be able to illuminate and identify.
Uh So if we are going to engage, you know,
we're not engaging somebody that doesn't need to be got,
you know. Or we can use that light also to blind,
desorate and distract, which maybe then we might not have
to shoot somebody. We can give verbal commands.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:27:54):
I could go either way with a sling. Like I said,
if it inside a home, it's not that big a deal.
The biggest thing that I think I would add to
it is what Brian and AJ said is getting comfortable
with the rifle, knowing that it is reliable, and then
understanding the mechanics inside the house and in close proximity.

(01:28:17):
Because I'm also, like Brian said, I'm not a short
barreled guy. I'd like a little bit more barrel. I
don't want to go short and less for very specific circumstances,
and I don't think inside of structure is a specific
enough circumstance for me. And where I think people often
say that they need a short barrel is because well,

(01:28:39):
I'm inside of structure and I'm in close proximity. What
that leads me to believe is they don't really know
how to run the rifle, how to collapse it in,
how to extend it out shouldered the rifle, how to
work within close confines with it. So understanding those mechanics
and being comfortable with it, I think is extremely important
if we're going to utilize a rifle for a home

(01:28:59):
defense option. But as far as you know the accessories
that go with it, what Brian and Aj said, I
go right along with them.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
Good deal. And it's it's funny because we do have
both in fashion and in firearms. We have things that
go in vogue and they're out and it's funny how
shotguns and revolvers are coming back in revolvers or not revolvers.
Rifles kind of moved away a little bit, but the

(01:29:33):
seriousness that people have taken with this has increased, which
is I think a great thing. It's wonderful. But I
can't think of any other I can't think of anything
else any I think I covered all my questions. Is
there anything that we did not cover or discuss to

(01:29:53):
this point?

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
Let's argue about zero's on the internet.

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
No fifty yard becondj becind Sorry, I can't help my phone.

Speaker 4 (01:30:08):
Forty seven point two, y'alls, I.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
Thought it was thirty seven and a half.

Speaker 7 (01:30:13):
Yeah, just waited they charge ye yeah, so yeah, So
just a quick synopsis when, how much, where?

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
And what are expectations or if someone's wanting to attend,
how should they prepare themselves or what should they already
have under their belt?

Speaker 5 (01:30:44):
All? Right, things to do? I know I just did
three videos. All these guys are going to do videos
on the rifle renaissance and it will be uh gear.
You should have how to set it up, how to
practice for it. I know, AJ like to use safeties.
You're welcome, thank you, my friend, thank you, I got

(01:31:06):
your brother there's a long choke in that, all right.
You know, we want to get people to be able
to practice, So we're going to do a couple dry fires,
We're going to do a couple of kit setups and
have the whole video set up for it. It's March sixth,
seventh and eighth, and I believe it's just right under
eight hundred dollars for three days, which is a hell
of a deal for it. I know we're giving away

(01:31:26):
three Menace blackbeards. Also, we're giving away the HK rifle,
and I'm sure there'll be a slew of hallsun optics
and other stuff's going out of there. And uh, I
think if you're worried about taking this class, I know
there's a lot of a lot. We have a lot
of pistol clients. They're going to try to make the transfer.

(01:31:46):
That's what I keep getting to. So we wanted to
support them with some videos so they would know how
to do it. But you could come to this class
with a rifle with a sling, with an optic, all right,
And if you want to bring your we can help
you set it up. If you don't quite know how
to set it up on your gun or where you
want it, what position, We could work you through that.

(01:32:07):
Even as far as a belt, I'm comfortable with you
put a magazine in back pocket and working like you
would on the street. Anyway, you don't need a bunch
of extra equipment. We're going to try to really make
sure you don't have to spend a fortune on it,
you know, and show up in all your extra kit
for it. Just be prepared to have an open mind
and really learn on this. And I think you know,

(01:32:30):
no matter who you start with, we're all going to
do zeros the first day so we can get the
internet on fire with AJ's comments and get everybody set up.
But we'd like you to have a gun that's zeroed
somewhat before you get there. If you only have an
indoor range and you can only do a twenty five
yard zero, go ahead and do that at least we
know you're on paper. That's what we really need to

(01:32:50):
and then we will talk you through the best best
zero for you relative to your application. But don't really care,
as you can tell by all our jokes with it,
as long as you under stand how to do it,
and that's really all you need for this class. Open
mind good rifle. Hell, you can bring two or three
rifles with if you want to shift around a little

(01:33:10):
bit and have everybody look at it, see which the
best rifle that fits you. I got to tell you,
rifle shooters are some amazing people. I taught a class
in Florida and a lady had a very poor stock
on her gun, and dude had an extra stock in
his car and went and got it and put it

(01:33:31):
on her gun and set up her sling. So whatever
you need, we're going to help you get through it.
We're going to have a lot of different options. I
know all of us will bring whatever we can. Those
people are flying, you're more restricted, but we'll have five
or six different versions of each type of gun available
for you to shoot. We'll probably have a shoot and
a really interesting thing we're all going to do is

(01:33:51):
we're going to have some sort of performance drill that
reflects what our course is like, and you're going to
be able to get little tokens from each of those.
So we're going to have a winner of that drill,
whoever gets the most of that. It's going to be
super interesting to see how each of us set up
a performance test for it. So he's going, oh yeah, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
One more thing to do, and to reinforce something that
you said. So when people think of rifle classes again,
it's that multicam, it's a plate carry, it's on this.
We had a Delta Force commando on an episode talk
about when he was going on certain raids, he would
have his M four with mag and one spare mag

(01:34:34):
in his back pocket and that's what he would do.
So it's not necessary to have all that stuff. And
I'm sure the people that have been listening for a
while know exactly who I'm talking about, very well known
person who's a friend of all of ours.

Speaker 5 (01:34:49):
But yeah, and I do do a class together, and
that's it. What do you have? And how are you
going to fight with what you got? He and I
came up with this collaboration of the Singleton operator when
you're by yourself, because everything changes when you're by yourself.
You know, it's a very different world when you don't
have any buddies with you, and we talked about it. It

(01:35:13):
was kristin Craighead's incident, watching him going in Iirobi, you know,
what do you have with you? Some people are going
to be better prepared some people aren't. So don't feel
like you got to go build this whole thing out.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:35:24):
What matters more is can you make good decisions? All right?
Do you have tools available and do you know how
to use them?

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
Yeah? And as a as an active patrol cop. If
I grab my rifle spare mag out of my door,
Thatt just goes to my back pocket. We move.

Speaker 5 (01:35:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:42):
No putting on a bunch of gig gear and stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:35:45):
No, well, it's the It's not the equipment, it's the
person running the equipment, and that's what we're really trying
to get across.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:35:55):
Good bags is like like ten revolvers, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:36:00):
And I had them.

Speaker 5 (01:36:02):
It's like your wall.

Speaker 1 (01:36:03):
Yeah, put them all in a Duffel bag. We're gone.
I think that I think that covered a lot. So
I'm going to repeat my favorite thing, and that is
going to you, the listener of the viewer. Make sure
you are supporting those sources that you have found would
be beneficial. As I said at the beginning the episode,
as I say usually multiple times during these make sure

(01:36:26):
you guys are following and you're sharing, and you're liking
the content provided that you appreciate if these guys said
stuff that you like. I read this. I think Chappie
commented about Brian's comments. Yeah, if you like what Brian's saying,
make sure you're following them. If you like what Aj said,
you probably just just just like Andy Samberg, That's what

(01:36:49):
you need to do. If you like what Shane had
to say, find these guys on social media, give them
those likes, give them those subscriptions. When they share something
that especially helps you, that you appreciate, make sure you're
sharing that because those algorithms are not working in our
favor and that this definitely goes with everything primary and secondary.

(01:37:12):
I've been told there have been some episodes that came
up kind of as a surprise. If you don't want
to be surprised by these episodes, make sure you're subscribed
and also make sure you have notifications activated. I have
another episode tomorrow. It's going to be an all star
Revolver cast, and one guy who's going to be on,
who I had no idea, was a Revolver guy, John
can I he's going to be Everyone knows John. He's

(01:37:38):
a Revolver guy. I had no idea, and it was
kind of his idea of doing this so it's going
to be fun tomorrow. But if you don't have if
you're not subscribed, if you don't have those notifications activated,
you wouldn't know otherwise. So I'm going to have these
guys share some some final thoughts. Some plugs pay attention
to who they are and where they can be found.

Speaker 5 (01:38:00):
Brian, Well, first and foremost, thank you for everything you
do for us. Yeah, we appreciate it. Thank you very much.
I know how hard you work at this. The last
rifle class that I took was at your primary secondary summit.
That's how long it's been. Oh cool to find it,
you know, so very grateful for all you that you

(01:38:21):
do for everybody listening. There's five intrinsic motivators for human beings.
One is purpose. You have to find something that gives
you purpose. I'm speaking especially to the men in the group.
Men without purpose are dangerous. They are a problem, and
they become self destructive and they can destroy others around them.
Find something that you love, if it's shooting a rifle

(01:38:43):
or shooting a pistol, or you like to go do BJJ,
or you know it's bowling, find your purpose, be passionate
about it. That's the other intrinsic motivator. If you don't
have passion, there's no highs and lows, it's just a
flat line all the time. Be curious. You should be
asking the why of it everything. Don't just accept it
because it's always been done that way, all right, do

(01:39:04):
it because it's your idea. And then finally, seek mastery.
Most of us will never become a master of anything,
but in seeking mastery, we refine this process and we
can pass on a better product to each succeeding group.
And that's what's really important in all this. So I
really encourage you to find those motivators in your life.

(01:39:27):
If you want to know more about this, it's the
Complete Combatant dot com. I'm on Instagram under the same thing,
the Complete Combatant. I'm also the Chief Chaos Controller. I
have my own thing that I do there. We're on Facebook,
We're on everything. Because I have an indispensable organizational wizard
and she does a fantastic job and I'm entirely grateful
for her doing it. And one of the reasons this

(01:39:48):
is a pretty polished product is because we have behind
the scenes support, and that's incredibly, incredibly important, and we
can't do it out without you guys that come and shoot,
it's a great time. I'm in America, and what's fairly
cheap right now, there's some of the greatest training that
I've ever seen. My very first class was messada UB's

(01:40:09):
mag forty, which I filled out a check and sent
it to an address out of the back of a
magazine and then tried to find it on a map
and hope I was at the right place. That's how
much correspondence was engaged. What you guys are getting now
don't take for granted. It's an incredibly beautiful thing. And
I'd like to also say thank you to my friends here.

(01:40:31):
I like to collect people that are driven by the
success of others and put other people's needs, show leadership,
show the ability to motivate them. And between Adam who's
not here, Shane and aj I'm incredibly blessed. Follow that up.

Speaker 2 (01:40:55):
What he said, good to rock everybody? Well, how do
you follow that up?

Speaker 5 (01:41:05):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
Thanks everyone, see you next time now.

Speaker 3 (01:41:10):
First off, Matt, thank you again. I know it's been
several years since the last time I was on here. Yeah, yeah,
so it's great to be back here again for one night.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
It feels like home.

Speaker 2 (01:41:22):
I know, it's great.

Speaker 3 (01:41:24):
Yeah, exactly right, So thank you very much for having me.
And of course you know, I love the way Brian.
Brian talks about this this I talked about it a
little bit differently, but this seeking mastery. Like you said,
very few of us will ever achieve mastery of anything
in our in our lives, and there are some people

(01:41:46):
that achieve mastery and multiple things in their lives, much
like Brian. That's my opinion. But it's it's amazing to
be around individuals that truly do seek that idea. And
I typically talk about this as as your journey of

(01:42:06):
performance seeking. You know this end state, but there is
no end state to it, and that's the secret of mastery.

Speaker 2 (01:42:14):
You're never going to reach it.

Speaker 3 (01:42:16):
And being around professionals like Shane and Brian and Adam
that have that that drive and want to not only
have the drive but share the drive with other people
is there's nothing like it, and it's it's truly an
honor to be surrounded by professionals and and share share

(01:42:36):
the range with guys that are that passionate about.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
Seeking the highest levels of capability.

Speaker 3 (01:42:44):
So I would not be here if it wasn't you know,
for Brian, And it's just wonderful to share these opportunities
with Adam and Shane and Brian. So if you guys
want anything on me, you know, pretty easy to find
if you can get through Shadow Bands, Practical Performance dot Org.
Probably just go to the website at this point, but

(01:43:06):
you can try Instagram, Practical Underscore Performance underscore Org. But
all my stuff, I'm trying to get the YouTube's back up,
but gun life, so you know, it is what it is.
But I would highly encourage any of you that are
considering going to this sign up now, sign up early,

(01:43:28):
sign up often, and definitely check out those videos that
we're gonna be putting out there. I know, you know
what Brian's doing, he knows what I'm doing, and some
of the different things we're all gonna share in those videos.
It's not just like here's what I'm gonna teach it
the question or teach it rifle renaissance. It's other things

(01:43:51):
incorporated into that as well, so it'll be super cool.
But thank you all again, it's always always truly a
pleasure to be around you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:44:01):
Shame all right, Yeah, how do you follow up after
those two.

Speaker 1 (01:44:05):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:44:05):
But first of all, Matt, thanks for having me on
the show first time. I really appreciate it. You know,
like AJ said, you know, I probably wouldn't be where
I'm at right now if it wasn't for Brian and Shelley.

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:44:20):
Just truly honored and humbled to be you know, included
with Brian and AJ and and Adam in this Uh
as far as you know, the students and the and
the upcoming renaissance, you know, kind of like AJ said,
you know, sign up and Brian said it earlier. You know, Uh,
don't don't let anything stop you from signing up. And
you don't have to you know, be at a master

(01:44:42):
level quote unquote. Uh, you know, go out and you
need to do a little bit of practice, you know,
so you can be at a certain level so you
can get as much as possible out out of the weekend.

Speaker 7 (01:44:53):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:44:53):
But you know, you don't have to go and and
be a ninja just to show up here. It's it's
for you to learn and to understand these principles and concepts.
The one thing that I will say, and to go
back to context, like we were talking about the beginning
of the show, is you know, somewhere out there right now,
someone is preparing to do harm to you, your family members,

(01:45:17):
or people that you care about. They might not know
it's you, but they're planning for that. We need to,
you know, be as prepared as we possibly can. Not paranoid,
but be as prepared as we possibly can if our
day ever comes up. And you know, this weekend at
the Renaissance, I think you're gonna get a lot of
things that will help you be prepared and build that

(01:45:38):
individual protective system so if your day does come, you
can come out on top. You can go home to
the people that love you, and you can live your
life in a good way. So if you want to
find me Personal Survival Solutions dot com. We're on Facebook,
Instagram and LinkedIn under personal survival Solutions. We got YouTube

(01:46:00):
which I have failed horribly to to update and do.
Uh it's on my list, but you know that list
is long and distinguished. H Two last things, you know,
like Brian said with UH, mastery, the road to mastery
is long, and we never get to the end. If
we've gotten to the end and we think we've mastered something,

(01:46:22):
we should probably stop what we're doing because it's a
continuous journey and as we continue to grow and mature
and learn new things and build this system, uh, it's
going to change. And especially as we get farther down
the road and later in life, that system is going
to change. So it's a it's a never ending quest.

Speaker 1 (01:46:41):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:46:41):
And lastly, you know, come on out because you might
get to see aj without any pants on.

Speaker 1 (01:46:46):
So it's true, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:46:54):
Probably wants your money back, but that's okay, you can't
have it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:59):
Try's double for that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:02):
That's right, good John head By all.

Speaker 1 (01:47:07):
Well, big thanks to the panel, excellent discussion. Big thanks
to you the listener of the viewer. Also importantly, big
thank you to the sponsors. Actually, before I say that,
big thank you to Shelley because she actually reached out
to me to set this up. So yeah, there you

(01:47:29):
have some some good behind the scenes support. Absolutely I
need to get her in my system to help me.
Big thanks to Lucky Gunner Filster Walter. Also big thank
you to the Patreon subscribers. If you want to help
support the network. There are all these cogs, there are
all these things that are going on. These are free
resources for your use. I love to be able to

(01:47:49):
supply them, but it does take time, it does take money,
it does take effort to maintain all of this and
to produce it. There's hosting fees, there's editing, there's all
this kind of stuff. If you go to Patron dot com,
slash Primary and Secondary, you can help support there anywhere
from a dollar a month to sky's the limit. Additionally,
if you don't want to go to Patreon, go to
Primary Secondary dot com slash forum. There is a banner

(01:48:10):
that says network support, same options are available there. Yeah,
I appreciate the support to get if you can't do
any of that, Like shares and subscriptions are also very
much appreciated because that helps spread the word. Because if
we just record, if we just spent two hours discussing

(01:48:33):
all this and no one gets to watch or listen,
well it's I enjoy the conversation, but hasn't really helped anyone.
And that's the end goal here is to spread the word. Yeah,
we're talking about we're talking about an event here, there's
a there's a training event coming up. But there also
were some very good tidbits, very good guidance shared, and

(01:48:56):
also there were some perspectives shared that might help you
decide you know what, I want to train with these
guys because trains a good time. But yeah, I've turned
into a training junkie. And as I as I as
I'm in these advanced years in my life, my tastes

(01:49:19):
have definitely changed and there are things that I appreciate
even more, and just dumping rounds for the sake of
dumping rounds, it's not as fun anymore, and I want,
I want much more. And this is why some of
our topics have gone in this direction, talking about so
much more about concepts versus tangible objects, because these these
these concepts are just fascinating and I love hearing other perspectives.

(01:49:42):
But I think that's pretty much everything I got. Tomorrow,
same time, eight o'clock Eastern, I have an all star cast.
We're going to be talking about forty five Colt also
known as forty five Long Colt. There was an interesting
comment when I said that, yeah, and AJ's already and
said no, but forty five interesting discussion in the side

(01:50:05):
bar that I have. That's going to be this whole
podcast tomorrow and I'm looking forward to it. It's going
to be cool. I gotta warn I gotta send out
this warning though, these kinds of discussions do end with
people buying these guns. We're going to be talking about
forty five Colt. People are going to be buying single

(01:50:28):
action revolvers and Smith and Wesson twenty five dash fives.
That's just what happens. I'm sorry, just got to warn you. Yeah,
I think that's all. Well, I'm gonna kill the feed.
Thanks for thanks for joining us. Excellent discussion and yeah,

(01:50:52):
you guys are gonna have to come back. That's all
there is to it. I'm sorry. Love to Yeph. Now, Brian,
I do remember we did get you on the that
other podcast I was doing. Were you ever? I don't
remember if you've had been on a podcast though.

Speaker 5 (01:51:05):
I don't think so. Maybe one, maybe one we talked
about coaching.

Speaker 1 (01:51:10):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. But that
then that's a concept that I love and there's so
many different ways of doing it and there yeah so cool. Well,
I think that's this all and I will talk to
you guys later.

Speaker 2 (01:51:30):
Ah

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P&S ModCast 434 - The Rifle Renaissance

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