P&S ModCast 446 - Staying on Message - Primary & Secondary Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I want to say, I'm in Eddie Bauer pajamas.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
So nice. Okay, so it's live.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
On yeah, only because I'm on this podcast and I
might have to stand up at some point and go
refresh my drink. And I don't want to be like
that CNN ay or who got caught.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
You know, I mean user views was a little looser.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
And also it would not be the first time my
wiener was on the internet. But that's a different story.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
So speaking of only fans, if you're following the chat,
just only fans, doesn't all guns, so I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Use it, that's true, they don't.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
No, because someone said, have you considered so YouTube channel
went down? YouTube removed because I was selling guns, which
that did not happen years of my life, ten hundred videos,
thousands of hours. I'm looking at alternatives and someone said,
have you considered OnlyFans? No, let's look at it. Nope,
no gun soap. No, I'm not gonna do that.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Do you guys remember when Dann what.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Happened to the stash man?

Speaker 4 (01:17):
I got sick of it, man, just the just the
must I love I love my beard, but when I
have just a mustache.

Speaker 5 (01:24):
After about a month, I just get sick of it.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
But the worst thing about having a mustache, and I
say this is someone who's had a magnificent mustache, is
the fluids. Like when you're just having a drink, right,
Like I'm just literally having a drink, and then I
have to clean it out of my mud, like you
get in the habit of taking a drink then sucking
the remains of that drink out of your mustache like

(01:48):
your Hannibal fucking lector.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Now there are there are circumstances where that is an
excellent thing.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
That I agree. I agree, just not when you're eating
tomato soup.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
That's one of the worst I see.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
I like it.

Speaker 6 (02:04):
So I had lobster bisked for dinner, and whenever I
want there it is again.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Normal day.

Speaker 7 (02:18):
We're starting off with a bank.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
And yeah, really, Riley said.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
He'll be a little late. Riley's always late. Riley's always late.
But in terms of starting off with a bank, I
think that actually happened about three or four days ago.
When Larry posted that fire cracked on Facebook. I got
everyone really angry.

Speaker 6 (02:43):
Yeah, apparently me shooting good is like an affront to
their manhood.

Speaker 7 (02:48):
How dare you.

Speaker 6 (02:51):
I know, right, I wasn't even a Navy sealed Green
Beret space shuttle door gunner or anything. Manna I want
to let down.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
Well, those paper targets don't shoot back, Larry, Yeah, you.

Speaker 6 (03:07):
Fat nerd.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
This.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
All of this, like all of the discourse on that.
That discourse I say very lightly because discourse implies there's
a level of seriousness to it. But all of that
boils down to the killed by ninjas argument like it is.
It is entirely just you're gonna get killed by ninjas

(03:31):
in the streets or you know whatever the fucking sorry,
I'm loose tonight, whatever the fucking thing that we've been
arguing about for the past twenty years about your in
You have insufficient tacticality to have this conversation.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
But train eight hours with me, Yeah exactly.

Speaker 7 (03:52):
I legitimately so I've put like little AI images. That's
like my new fun thing to play with, like AI
images like try and prompt some corny ship And I
legitimately had one like two weeks ago where I had
like one dude surrounded by ninjas. It doesn't really work
like that.

Speaker 6 (04:11):
That's where you use the death blossom get.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Your a k in the crook of your arm A
video about that?

Speaker 5 (04:20):
Oh man, that was that was a long time ago too.

Speaker 6 (04:24):
I'm bringing up old I'm bringing up the old magic.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah, yeah, that is the What's funny is every now
and then that'll go right, uh that that will go
viral on Facebook and people will uh bring it up again,
and I'm like, oh man, I remember when that happened.
Like I was, like, I had the extremely uncomfortable realization

(04:49):
that I am no longer the young, up and coming
industry hotshot and I'm just the established industry flak. And
I don't know how I feel about that, but it's
something that I've had that I've to deal with.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Is that why you go to revolvers so that you
feel young?

Speaker 1 (05:05):
No? The fuck up thing is I was doing revolvers
when I when I was actually young, and now I'm
just another old guy with gray hair who has revolvers.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yep, here's the comment that we need to share. Not
hot shot, it's still top shot.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
A thank you, Tom, thank you, thank you very much.
For people who don't know that us your name is
associated with the owner of dark Star Gears.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
So and if he wants to jump on, he's welcome.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
He's got a glorious mustache. If we're talking about he does, Oh.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
My gosh, his mustache. Get out of town.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
So just say him, say the word tomb if you want.

Speaker 6 (05:49):
I'm feeling inadequate now on my mustache. And I don't
even shoot revolvers. I'm I'm just I'm falling behind here.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Not yet, not yet.

Speaker 6 (05:58):
No, I got Revolver class uh from Caleb in a
couple of months or a few months.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, yes, sir, you do. I have you're gonna spaking.

Speaker 6 (06:08):
Which Palady needs to like get all that on the
calendar so we could.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Start, like, you know, she's she is in her defense,
she's also in the process of uprooting her entire life
and moving to Tallahassee. So it's in Larry's whatever state,
Larry's in the mountain location.

Speaker 6 (06:26):
Really, Yeah, we're doing a Revolver degeneracy uh in my house.
So yeah, so we only invite people who can be
on good behavior around you know, my children and my dog.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Why did you invite me?

Speaker 6 (06:43):
Well, we figured if you were in front, we could
all watch you.

Speaker 7 (06:45):
And you know, what are you planning on doing to
the dog?

Speaker 6 (06:54):
Yeah? I mean, come on, Faust is like our range
mascot now for for class days. You love it.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
You're dog is named Faust.

Speaker 6 (07:01):
Yeah, his full name is His full name is pans
Aer Faust. Okay, my son named him, my little my
youngest named him, and so yeah, my dog is named
pans Are Faust, but we just call him Faust.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Reasonable. We missed Matt someone, do you need to actually
start the show and like do intros and things like
that and talk about the topic or anything.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Who got Riley missing? And then we also have.

Speaker 8 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, author, your dog is named Faust. I'm immediately
going literary exactly. Yeah, rocket Launcher.

Speaker 6 (07:43):
No, no, yeah, it was named by a kid who
was like eight years old at the time. I think. No,
he was seven years old, and so it made perfect
sense at the time, and you know seven year olds,
it's like, uh, he said, we get another dog, we
should shrap and how It's like, boy, you.

Speaker 5 (08:03):
Are a nerd.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah. That apple didn't fall far from the tree. It
bounced off the screen and hit every branch on the
fucking way down.

Speaker 9 (08:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (08:13):
This last one was my clone too, So.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
I guess he's not gonna make it. Yeah, he'll just
be in the comments. He's here in spirit will Hey everyone,
met Lansa here with primary and secondary. Welcome to podcast
and everything that's been broadcast so far. We are keeping
because it's necessary information. The podcast, the topic, whatever the

(08:41):
hell we're gonna even call this, We're probably not even
gonna stay on topic, but the topic is staying on message.
So here's the background. I see some of these guys
on a regular basis interacting with certain people who think
they have the answers, and man do man are they
sure of themselves? And the replies from these fine gentlemen

(09:06):
are not only insightful, but they're also very entertaining and
they're also timely. So I thought, you know what, this
would be kind of cool because basically where this is
all starting from, or the stems from, it's good information.
So on concealed carry on the Facebook page, there's really
good information shared. A lot of my friends are shared

(09:28):
in videos and they're again, these are the Darryl Bolks,
the Chuck Haggart's, Riley Bowman's who hopefully will be here
someday sharing really good messages, and people are coming out
of the woodwork to comment and tell them how they're wrong.
And then we have these fine gentlemen come through and say, well,
let's discuss this and explain this. And one of the
reasons why I've always been a fan of doing that

(09:50):
is because it helps me not only understand my place
in life. I understand the concepts better by having this
practice and explaining things, but it's also helping me understanding
where I understand where people are coming from. And then
I can take notes from people like this and go, oh,

(10:11):
I like that, I like that point, I I like
the way they address this. Well, this isn't just on
social media. This happens in person, this happens in classes.
There are detractors everywhere. So how do we maintain that
focus and stay on that message and deal with detractors
and hopefully if you can pull them in and help
them understand or completely humiliate them and disregard them, because

(10:35):
sometimes that is ultimately the best, the best course of
action and manner those entertaining. So I've been doing that
for a long time. That is a good time, especially
when you have a good group of people sharing some
really good information and then someone comes out of left
field to say, well, yeah, you're I'm going to shoot
at shadows and I don't need to illuminate my target.

(10:55):
Oh really, well, let's talk about this. Let's talk about
the legalities of this. So staying on message because it
can be both, it can be entertaining, it's good practice.
It's an opportunity for you to learn as a person,
to help people understand things better. So I thought, why
don't we get all these guys together and discuss it,

(11:15):
because it's not just all online stuff. Larry's loving this.
It's not all online because again though, we do need
to address some of the stuff that happens in person,
because that does happen. So my backgrounds and law enforcement
been doing the cop thing since last century, been doing
primary and secondary for over ten years now, the podcast
ten years. Matter of fact, recently YouTube kicked me. I

(11:38):
had ten years of work, over thirteen hundred videos, thousands
of hours of content, and it's all gone. So now
it is on rumble slowly. I have over one hundred
videos right now and a lot of these things. Man,
some of these discussions, they're older, but they absolutely contain gold.
Some of these discussions also are multiple hours long. That's

(12:01):
how we do things here. So I find the best
people for the topic like this one specifically, and it
figured out. Hey, let's get this guy, this guy, this guy,
and let's talk about our perspectives on this and then
everyone gets to learn. So love doing this, absolutely love
doing this. So if you're new to this, yeah, Rumble's
going to be where my stuff's going to be. Also,

(12:22):
these are available on whatever your favorite audio streaming podcast
app is. It's great, and yeah, going back to I'm
going back to the old, old, old stuff and listening
to some of the old clips, and man, there's some
wonderful conversations in there. And so if you're watching some
of the older stuff on Rumble, it does look like

(12:43):
we recorded it on a potato. You're not playing it
for the video, You're playing it for the conversation and
the content of the discussion. So I'm going to shut
up now. I'm going to let these guys give their backgrounds. Hopefully,
by the time we reached the last guy, our last

(13:03):
person will jump in. So let's see here. I believe
Caleb has been on the absolute most So let's start
with Caleb for backgrounds.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Hey, guys, I'm Caleb Gettings. I have set my display
name to revolver Daddy because I am a fundamentally unseerious person.
My qualifications for this show is I have been described
by Scott Jadlinsky as the good troll and by Matt
Little Graveyard actual as a professional Internet rock and tour

(13:35):
So I feel like those are excellent qualifications to do
a podcast about staying on topic and really and really
dealing with Internet trolls because I've been on both sides
of the Internet troll fens. I have been both the
troll and the troll, which really is kind of everybody's
story here in real life. I am in real life.

(13:59):
Somehow I've been to parlay being a dickhead on the
Internet into a marketing job in the firearms into a tree.
But yeah, I've been on a ton of these and
I'm going to do a professional marketing thing. Guys, if
you are listening to this on Apple Podcasts or Spotify,
it is really critical that you leave a five star review,

(14:19):
leave a written review because currently, of all of the
content algorithms out there, Apple podcasts and Spotify are not
crushing gun content all right, Like, if you listen to
shooting shows or hunting shows on Apple podcasts, it will
recommend shooting and hunting shows to you. So those recommendations

(14:40):
and those reviews and those actually do matter, especially for
shows like primary and secondary and that sort of thing.
So that's my professional marketing guy thing. And from there
I'm going to pitch it to someone who I've actually
had an Internet beef with, Riley Bowman.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Oh, because yeah, actually I think Riley would be my
second person i'd be calling on. And we just started, Riley,
so you've not missed anything except for discussing mustaches, Caleb. Also,
with your background in an emphasis with Revolvers, your stuff
is constantly being oh lord sniped and there's I'm caring

(15:17):
revolver as we speak. There's a place in a time
and they're wonderful.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yes, we get a lot of you know, in the
Revolver space where there's a lot of constant like boy,
are you carrying a gun from the eighteen hundreds And
honestly the answer is because I'm cooler than you are.
But we can get into that later.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's true and not the Internet people. So Riley, well, yeah,
we're just doing background.

Speaker 10 (15:45):
So Riley Bowman, well, glad I could jump in here
at the last possible moment to do my intro. Yes,
I'm Riley Bowman. I'm vice president and director of Training
at Concealedcary dot Com. Been doing this thing for about
a decade now, which has been, you know, fun as

(16:05):
a full time job. Let's see, I got into law
enforcement around twenty eleven, became an agency instructor as a
reserve cop for about eight and a half years, and
that's kind of where I was like, Hey, I like
this teaching thing, you know, which was a very different
you know, I've learned a lot since then, and the
way I taught then with our agency is very different

(16:28):
than how I teach now. But it was a great
way to get my feet wet and get into I
guess the industry. Could you could say I taught some
consialed carry classes for a number of years and then,
like I said, about a decade ago, got going full
time with Conceiled Carry dot Com together with my business partner.
And let's see, competitive shooter. I love doing that. Been

(16:49):
doing that since twenty seventeen, late twenty sixteen, three gun
first USPSA dabbled a few other things, still challenge and yeah,
let's see what else. I love just jumping in you know,
Oh you're good, You're good, but I'm super passionate about

(17:11):
concealed carry. Obviously, it's my business, and I want to
make sure people have the best information, training, education products
that support that. Concealed carry dot com we we sell
a lot of stuff that supports that that lifestyle, everything
from holsters to belts, to training products to informational products.
We do a lot of training videos that are behind

(17:32):
a paywall for members to peruse and watch and learn
and hopefully make themselves smarter, better, stronger. All that, and
I'm also super passionate about making sure people get the
right information about shooting. That's something I've become really passionate about.
I've had some wonderful mentors in this industry that have
sort of showed me the way over the years and

(17:55):
try to pay it back in you know, any possible
way I can. There's a lot of bad out there,
there's outdated information, there's you know, all kinds of stuff,
and that's part of what we're here to at least
important to talk about here tonight. And so I guess
that's how I landed here on this panel, this fabulous
panel of individuals. UH super excited for this discussion and

(18:16):
hopefully we can share something that inspires or helps people
discover or find and follow the truth.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Hey, amen, Riley's intro was so serious and mine was
so fucking unserious that I feel bad Now.

Speaker 10 (18:31):
Well, well, you know, I jumped in here late, so
I missed the memo. As far as you know which
direction we were going on this, Caleb, I want to
help people.

Speaker 6 (18:44):
And cabs all, I want to fuck with people.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
So ultimately, also what Riley says, and for the kind
and yeah, what Riley said, frame this where this might
also provide a perspective that people don't understand. And when
you jump on that Facebook page on Concealed Carry and
there's a video of someone discussing a technique on the

(19:08):
video that the page provided and someone's criticizing, and all
of a sudden you see these names come up. There's
a reason because we want to make sure the best
possible information's out there. And obviously, if someone's providing some
input that is deemed misguided, well you know what, I
want people to see. This might not be accurate or
you know what, this might be purely an opinion, and

(19:30):
we can we can counter that opinion. So there's some
logic and there's some some real there's some good efforts
behind and good intentions behind a lot of this. Some
might see it as trolling, others might see it as
this is actually, this is not controlling the narrative. What
would be a better way to describe it.

Speaker 7 (19:50):
It's in putting true the reality into the narrative.

Speaker 4 (19:54):
Maybe there you go, I would call I would almost
call it updating the wiki is like you're you're making
the you're making the newest, most accurate information available.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, and then justin what he does is he screenshots
it and then makes fun of them.

Speaker 10 (20:13):
Well, you know, not to like, we're obviously gonna get
into this, but you guys, just I think you brought
up one of the key things to what we are
trying to do a lot of times online is basically
counter I don't know if you're familiar with Bandolini's law,
which is basically, I mean, it's not a true law,
but it's basically the concept that that it's so much right, Yeah, no, it.

Speaker 6 (20:39):
Of reality.

Speaker 10 (20:39):
Now for me, basically, it's just that the amount of
work and effort it takes to counter bad information is is,
you know, many times more difficult than just putting out
bad information, like it's so easy, especially in today's age
with social media and everything, everyone everyone's able to just

(21:00):
jump on that, you know, town hall forum, so to speak,
and just put it out there. Doesn't matter the quality
information that that takes zero effort countering it, researching it,
finding good solid, you know, arguments against it. All of
that takes infinitely more effort to counter. That's Bandalini's lost.
So that's basically I have.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
A thought on that, but we should finish the introductions.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Let's okay, Brian.

Speaker 8 (21:28):
Brian Horton, I'm like the worst shooter on the panel
for sure, but I've got I've got, at this point
in a couple hundred hours of gun school in me.
But I'm a professional engineer work for the Air Force,
So I think that kind of gives me.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (21:46):
I do a lot of risk assessments, and I do
a lot of working my way through like DS to
find the real truth, like for a job, you know,
and uh.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
And it's a lot of risk assessments. It has to
do with like life or death stuff.

Speaker 8 (21:59):
So I think that kind of helps me see through
other people's crap and kind of figure out like what's
legit and what's not, who's worth listening to and who's not.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
That's that's my real job.

Speaker 8 (22:11):
My part time job is I work for Filster and
I just basically coach people on conceal carry and work
in the Filster Consteal Workshop as an admin and just
help all the folks out there trying to figure out
how to use our products and conceal carry better and
live life the way they want all their arms.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
So you know, that's kind of it's kind of me.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
And also a little bit more about Brian. I have
seen Brian for years being a good, solid person who
helps that necessarily just guide the conversation, but guide the
information and help provide points and things to help people
understand something better.

Speaker 8 (22:52):
Yeah, I'm not a smell, but I'll point you to
the spees. How about that. That's creator of.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Mister spa Dan.

Speaker 5 (23:02):
Dan Brady.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
I've worked for a company part time called Apache Solutions
out of the bustling metropolis of Yadkinville, North Carolina, to
a large town of I don't know, eleven hundred people.
Full time, I am still a law enforcement officer. Technically speaking,
I don't interact with the public anymore.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
I simply train cops for the Department.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Of Defense, and that is a full time, nine to
five ish kind of job where they keep me away
from the public now, because after twenty three ish years
of pushing a cruiser around and dealing with everybody on
their worst today, I developed a distaste for most people.

(23:51):
I'll say it that way. So, yeah, i've done per cop.
What's that?

Speaker 2 (23:57):
So you're a cop?

Speaker 4 (24:00):
So yeah, i've done unless I just started my twenty
sixth year in law enforcement, so yeah, just after the
turn of the century.

Speaker 5 (24:08):
It's when I joined in, And.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
Yeah, I've done pretty much everything you can do in
law enforcement, all in terms of job titles and stuff
that weren't completely administrative in nature. You know, I've done
some detective things. I've done some swat things. I've done
some trainer things, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 5 (24:29):
My real.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Passion is to push quality, defensive information to anyone who
will listen and get there by being who I have
to be in that given conversation. Right, very hard to
start out being the nice guy, and eventually, I don't know,

(24:53):
I could get on Caleb's level with being a troll,
because man, he's good at that.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
I've changed though, I'm a man of peace now.

Speaker 6 (25:04):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
I don't know that I can. I don't know that
I can summon the vitriol of Larry over here. But uh,
you know.

Speaker 5 (25:14):
Guy, So, yeah, that's that. That's me. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:23):
Everything about me has to do with just making other
people better, faster, stronger. I just I want to shortcut
everyone's learning curve, and a lot of that has to
do with counteracting bad or outdated information.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Cool. And then we have Chris.

Speaker 7 (25:52):
Hello, I'm Christopher Bean. I run a company called Tactical Advantage.
Do a couple other things, but I guess I'll start
out with background. If anyone reads my stuff on Facebook,
you might notice a pension to be on one side
of things or the other. My educal educational background is
an adult education, psychology, business administration, and due diligence in

(26:14):
heavy capital in vestment scenarios. So I got my first
instructor certification in nineteen ninety nine. But the reason I
haven't been all over the internet in a front facing
kind of way is I worked for a Fortune one
hundred company and senior leadership where guns were not really popular,

(26:35):
and I got a mortgage to pay a biggin. So
retired last year. Been instructing for what twenty seven years now,
But last year I retired and I could actually say
what I thought on the internet. So I've been in
the background. I've known some of you guys for years
and years and years, but I was actually able to

(26:57):
put it on my own page for once, trying to
be prolific with letting it out now, so pretty simple stuff.
I just like applying critical thinking.

Speaker 6 (27:07):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
That's the end of it, Tom and then it coughs.

Speaker 11 (27:17):
I was muted. Yes, at least use proper Internet etiquette. Yes,
so yeah, as Cayler mentioned earlier, I don't know if
it was live around dark start here. That's been going
on since the end of two thousand and eight. Still
maintain a day job mechanical engineer in a nuclear industry,
uh now, project manager, running really extensive jobs. That's getting

(27:41):
my teeth so much like Brian, you know, the side
of things that I see on a day to day
basis is yeah, not as much.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Life and death.

Speaker 11 (27:51):
It's like what he deals with, but it's risk analysis
intensive problem solving. You know, we solve problems, uh know,
with five to ten million dollars sometimes you know, more
digits on that cost and value and risk.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
You know, some of the stuff we do.

Speaker 11 (28:09):
We permanently change a nuclear power plant and that could
kill the plant, which could kill billions and billions and
billions of dollars of uh, well just just dollars in
general for people, but also electricity, which we're short of.
All that is to say it sounds really fancy, it's not.
It's just it's all the same.

Speaker 10 (28:27):
You know.

Speaker 11 (28:29):
Uh, the further and FROLI are going to this, it's
like the you know, as kids, you think adults have
it all together and are grown up and are all
super serious, and the higher up I go it miss.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
It's just like holy fuck.

Speaker 11 (28:41):
But additionally on messaging, you know, kind of where Caleb,
when I actually first met, was a lot of different
forums and talking and responding to things in manners that
people don't like. One of the notes I took down earlier,
I hate the I hate trolling. I hate the the
word trolling because it's a very lazy way to just
gribe what is, more often than not, corrections that you

(29:04):
just don't like because you're now wrong.

Speaker 5 (29:07):
Breach.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, it's Internet.

Speaker 11 (29:10):
World doesn't necessarily foster an environment where people are are
willing to be.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Wrong or or fail.

Speaker 11 (29:16):
Uh yeah, And again lots of everybody here has some
degree of that in their their day to day where
failure is not necessarily welcome, but failure is not negative.
Failure is a way too. Maybe it might be as
simple as a way you can't do it or what
you learn blah blah blah. Yeah, fisted a lot of
people off on your net, kicked off of a lot
of forums, trying to blocked by a lot of people

(29:37):
trying to you know, be correct most of the time
in a respectful manner, sometimes not.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
But well, you and I didn't get along at first
at all.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
No, and and the the actually they were.

Speaker 11 (29:50):
The really good part of that is we I don't
feel we were necessarily combative when we know it first
got along. But the the classic thing, uh, and there's
other people in the industry I you know, did not
get along with very well. Many I've met, uh you
know who never knew it was actually me talking face
to face into it, brought it up, but saying the

(30:11):
exact same things. But when you get tone and inflection,
you can really you can really understand and you know,
a classic thing I hate and it's like you wouldn't
say that to my face kind of thing. Yeah, a
generic response. People were like, no, I would say it
to your face, but you would hear it differently. Yeah,
so yeah, you and I met. I think it was

(30:31):
sixteen seventeen shot show can be any.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Seen seventeen, so it's a long time to six seven
O Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Fucking kids.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
And lastly Larry.

Speaker 6 (30:49):
Yeah, So I'm Larry Korea. I'm a I'm a writer
and just huge gut nerd. And the reason I'm on
this podcast is because, you guys know the TV show
Dexter is a serial killer that hunts serial killers. Well,
I'm an asshole that hunts assholes. Okay, so so really

(31:11):
I'm I'm like, I don't target normal people, but I
target movies, if I and I and I am very
passionate about having good information out there, whether it's guns
or any of the other subjects that I care about.
I'm I'm really big on you know, truth and reality
and and and helping people be successful. I want to
see people succeed. So I've kind of made it my

(31:33):
mission in life to screw with people who give really
really awful advice and their dicks about it, and I
try to make it fun. So it's still educational, and
I try to and I've gotten a bit of a
reputation across the internet for a wife variety of subjects.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Fun for my behavior, fun for you or the recipient.

Speaker 6 (31:53):
Well, oh, it's fun for me too. I try to
make it fun for the audience and the whole well
not for the whole family, because they're the profanity level
is off the charts. Okay, So the other day I
had a guy who was dispensing some horrifically bad advice.
It was actually the first time I've seen a point
shooting video, a video of a guy showing off how

(32:13):
good he could point shoot. And he did this video
and he was just talking all this trash, and so
I went out and outshot it, and it took me
literally because he was still talking the next day. So
I got really master. I wouldn't put my bootsaw and
went down shot the same thing he did, only beat
him by every possible metric, and then got the camera
and went on this like minute long rant about what

(32:34):
I thought of him and his parentage. So my wife
has a job here in our small town and we
actually lived near Browning Arms, and my wife is at
work and one of the guys from Browning came into
the store and walks up to her and he goes, man,
your husband is profane and he had no idea what
he was talking about. He's he's just like all the

(32:58):
guys in the office. We watched that video over and
over again. It was funny as hell. So I like
to have fun with it. I like to mess with
with people who are given bad advice because I think
through humor we can point out logical fallacies and dishonesty,
and so I just like to have fun with it
and make sure I try to get some good information
out there.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
And you know, assholes, you're over bait.

Speaker 6 (33:23):
I am, I am. I I'm surprised Game Wardens haven't
come and cited me yet yet.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
You and as an author, what would you say your
most popular book or series is.

Speaker 6 (33:39):
My most popular and best selling is Monster Hunter International
That that series is huge, It's done really really well.
And then the one that I'm probably is like the
best known for like award winning his Son of the
Black Sword. So those are by two about it. I've
written like thirty thirty two books now, so I've written
a lot. But before that, it was I was in
the gun business before that, and I was just a

(34:02):
low level instructor. I was a CCW and basic pystol
instructor for a lot of years, owned a gun store.
I did a bunch of stuff like that. So and
but then I had to choose between like still doing
gun stuff or writing books. I used to be a
competition shooter. And my wife is like, you really need
to decide between you are you going to keep shooting

(34:22):
three gun or are you going to try to be a writer.
And I went for the writer thing, and she's really
happy about that.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
So, yeah, could you feel with the right.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Decision as a writer and also competition shooter who chose
not that track? You chose wisely? Like in in the
Indiana Joe the Last Crusade, I'm the ancient guy being
like he chose wisely.

Speaker 6 (34:49):
Crappy looking cup and I was fine, you got the
big jeweled one and just like turned.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
To be and I'm I'm all whizend and crusty and
angry now. But for people who are listening who don't
know who Larry is, when I use the term prolific,
it is an understatement, all right. If you go on
whatever fucking electronic book reading device you have in search
Larry Korea, You're going to get a shitload of books.

(35:17):
You're going to need a confusing volume of books, all right.
The man writes and writes and writes, and that's why
he lives on a mountain in Utah and his neighbor's
post Malone.

Speaker 6 (35:29):
Post Malone's vacation Hill. So now I've never I've never
actually met post Bolone, but like everybody else in my
town has. But he's apparently a really nice guy.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
He's also a bit of a gun guy, I believe too.
He is a big gun nerd.

Speaker 6 (35:49):
Oh yeah, and nice, like his reputation in town, like
he'll just like he's like super chill. One time he
pulled in I think it was like a Lamborghine or something.
It was just hanging out the little like local store,
talking to all the teenagers who came to see the lambo,
you know, just to show a guy.

Speaker 7 (36:10):
That's an interesting point though, that you just made right there,
Like how people tend to confuse the persona with the
person you know. And I think that happens online a
lot too, Like if someone comes in and they're known,
there's this immediate pushback, even if they're known a little
bit an immediate pushback. Well, well, I know more than

(36:30):
you store.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
There's also an interesting phenomenon. It's something that I've been
dealing with personally for well for a while now, is
if you guys aren't familiar with the idea of audience capture,
it's where you do a thing and that thing gains
you notoriety, and then your audience only wants you to

(36:53):
do that thing right where it's like I you know,
and like, for the record, I love shooting a revolt.
I absolutely, from top tip to toe love doing it.
But every now and then I want to shoot a
different gun, or I want to talk about a different
gun because I actually just like guns in general. And
I'll do that, and a good chunk of my audience,

(37:15):
who is here because of the Revolver content, will be like,
we don't give a shit about this gun and give
us the Revolver stuff, and I'm like, hey, I get
that and everything. But like, I've been shooting since I
was a small child, and I've shot all kinds of stuff,
So I think sometimes you will get people who gained
an audience via abrasive online behavior, right. And it was

(37:42):
kind of a bit. You know, they were like, hey,
I'm just doing a bit this, that and the other thing,
and then they get this big audience and they then
they don't want to do the bit anymore. They're like, okay,
I was just doing a bit, like and now I
have a thing and I want to be serious, but
their audience only wants them to do the bit, and
so they sort of get locked into doing the bit.

Speaker 11 (38:03):
For lack of a better word, well, you you attract
the audience you don't really want.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
In many ways. Yeah, I mean yes and no, Like,
sometimes you attract the audience you want, but I think sometimes,
you know, you get sort of locked into pigeonholed. A
thing that I've said years ago, and I don't feel
this way anymore. But I said this a long time ago,
was I don't know where the character of Caleb ends

(38:32):
and the real person begins anymore. And it took me
a long time to go find that and figure that
shit out again. And I think a lot of people
have run into that throughout their lives. And you know,
especially in this Internet age where extreme content gets eyeballs, right,
I am way more likely to get ten thousand views

(38:55):
on a post where I am talking shit about something
or saying something ad or this, that and the other
thing that I am on a post where I'm like, hey,
here's why staging a double action revolver trigger is a
dumb idea, and why you should learn to roll the
trigger in one clean press.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
That's absolutely, that's a super valid point.

Speaker 7 (39:16):
And I can just just lately so I was looking
today before we got on the call, but a few
weeks ago, I spent probably a good eight hours formatting
a Facebook post about how your hand works in relation
to a trigger and trigger movement and all of this jabbs.
So you curate an educational post, it gets like two

(39:37):
thousand people. Maybe you say cops probably can't shoot as
good as you think they can. It gets three hundred thousand,
And that's that's sad, but it's true.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Oh, if I wanted to do a post tomorrow where
I talked shit about the SIGM eighteen, it would get
which I have all of the sig M eighteen t
It was just so much more engagement than like an
educational post about the pros and cons of small revolver carry.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Absolutely, and I think that's one of the one of
the reasons primary and secondary never really grew beyond the
utilitarian focused people. I never went after flash. I'm just
going after this is. I want to talk about performance,
I want to talk about fact. I want to talk
about real life and is it fun to go go
to the extreme? Oh yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
You actually actively discouraged trolling and that sort of behavior,
like you know, to the point that you and I
didn't get along for a while.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
What moder.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
And I want to point out something that Caleb also said.
He said he's been shooting since he's he was a
small child. Now he's a small adult.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
As a matter of fact, that's correct. I am still
the same size as a small child. I just war hair,
I have a I have a the Delta, Purple AMEX
and guns. Now that's defintion.

Speaker 6 (41:09):
Every every party needs a halfling. It's okay, that's fair.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
Live there and I will be the full sized humans here.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
So it is Riley and so.

Speaker 6 (41:24):
I don't know, I'm a I'm a big fetcher.

Speaker 5 (41:27):
So Riley's lost.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
I haven't heard that way.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Riley's lost like fifty pounds in the last year. He's
still tall though, Yeah he's still tall.

Speaker 10 (41:36):
Yeah, I haven't lost any height yet.

Speaker 6 (41:38):
I'm six five, so I don't know what her what
our baseline is here.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Larry is the squad, Larry I am.

Speaker 6 (41:47):
I'm the guy that whenever they do like like like.
I got a video the other day of me shooting
a Barretta Pico, which was pathetic and hilarious. It was
actually painful to show. I was shooting a four to
fifty four Cassole the same day. Uh taurist raging hunter
by the way, and uh shout out to shout out
to Caleb there and uh it was fine. I was
shooting with the some fairly fairly hot loads and then

(42:10):
it was fine, no problem. Then I shot that brett
at Pico and hurt my hands.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
To hurt your hand or just these two fingers.

Speaker 6 (42:19):
This finger bouncing in the like like in the like,
because it filled the entire trigger guard, you know, so
under recoil was like like a recoil lever there. It
was awful.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
I don't know how.

Speaker 6 (42:30):
Anybody could shoot that. And there's no traction on it whatsoever.
The grip is slick. I don't know who thought that
was a good idea.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
Well, I didn't mean to disparage you, Larry. I didn't
realize you were a real life Shrek.

Speaker 6 (42:41):
I damn here. Uh hey, I'm down to two eighty though,
So I'm a Cevelt Svelt super heavyweight.

Speaker 7 (42:48):
Now like Tom aspinall, you know, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (42:54):
Just like Tom aspinall, except not British or skilled at fighting.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
So Riley, as a content creator, as one of the
people that you're producing and posting good educational stuff on
a regular basis, you're constantly getting these people that decide
to come in and add their two cents and say
how something's wrong or ridicule something Darryl Bulky says, which
we all know, Well, you know what, it's actually pretty

(43:24):
legit what Daryl's saying. I'm actually taking notes here. What's
what's your perception of that? And then with people coming
in and yourself included, because you're clearly one of the
people that come in and help guide people, But how
much of a detractor is that you find to the
actual message when people come in with their misguidance and

(43:47):
try to share it.

Speaker 10 (43:50):
Yeah, first of all, I cannot other than through the business,
I guess I cannot take credit for much of the
content that are Page puts out. That's mostly my social
media manager that's what he's paid to do, and he
does a pretty good job. And you know, he's been
with us for a long time. Actually, I think he's

(44:12):
in his eighth, maybe almost ninth year of working for us,
and been a lot of evolution through that process, working
with him and teaching him, training him, getting him, you know,
kind of dialed in with social media. And he's doing
a great job. If I understood the question I mean
in our page is challenging because the nature of yeah,

(44:39):
I mean a lot of the so we have an
email list, right, and our email list has been built
off of mostly can concealed Carry students. Over the years
what a lot of people don't know about can still
carry dot com. It's become less and less of a
focus of our business. But for a long like actually,
our original business model was essentially as the marketing company

(45:03):
for firearms instructors, concealed carry instructors, particularly concealed carry dot
com go figure, right, And so for a while there
we had an instructor network of I don't know, fifty
to seventy instructors in various markets across the US. We
didn't control necessarily what they did or taught, I mean,
as long as they weren't like total dofices, you know,

(45:24):
as long as they were decent human beings teaching mostly
decent classes, they were brought into our instructor network and
we basically marketed their classes, right, so, you know, became
a sort of like that. You know, a lot of
people are familiar with shooting classes dot com. We were
sort of that before shooting classes dot com became cool,
even became a thing. And so the nature of that

(45:45):
is is a lot of our email list and a
lot of our online followers therefore been built off of
I mean, just imagine what your entry level concealed carry
student is like, right, they know very little, and those
that think they know something, it's because as well, I've
been shooting since I was five years old, and I
was in the military in nineteen seventy two, and you know, like,

(46:07):
and so you kind of get the gist of sort
of where that's going to lead a lot of comments
to be is some serious Dunning Krueger going on, right,
And so it's always been a little bit of a
struggle for us.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
You know, as far as Riley explained Dunning Krueger to
the people who have Dunning Kruger.

Speaker 4 (46:29):
Well, the first rule of Dunning crew club is you
don't know you're in Dunning Kruger.

Speaker 5 (46:33):
Club, right.

Speaker 10 (46:36):
But for those that don't know Dunning Kruger is that
you don't know what you don't know in the simplest
way possible of explaining it, meaning that and like the
best way I love to describe this is and there's
been some actual surveys, you know, done like this where
you know, take a sample of a thousand or ten thousand,

(46:58):
or fifty thousand people and ask them, you know, hey,
rate your driving skill from one to ten, and almost
always everybody will rate themselves significantly better than they actually
are because they simply do not know what they don't know.
And not that like all driving skills on the racetrack

(47:21):
are relevant to normal everyday driving skills. But when you
take a high level performance driver and compare what they
know and what they can do with a car compared
to the average human, and there's a very very large
chasm between those. And we see the same thing in
the gun space as well. And so the problem is

(47:41):
is you've been driving for twenty thirty forty years, you know,
people maybe longer, right, And therefore they think they are experts,
and yet what they actually know about it is still
about you know, the size of a pe, and so
you don't know what you don't know, and that's a
hard place to be mean. And at some point in
all of us, even right now, everybody in this on
this panel, is it stuck in some kind of realm

(48:05):
of Dunning Krueger on some subject somewhere. You know, I
don't know what it is for Tom or Larry or
Matt or Dan, but there is something all of us
out there. I think we know something about that. We
you know, we know, we think we know more than
what we actually do. But the nice thing is is
when you start learning about Dunning Krueger and how the

(48:29):
human brain works and how a human performance works and
adult learning and all those things, and you can start
becoming a little bit more self aware of well, you know,
I recognize that there are things I don't know, and
you can start identifying a little bit better what those
are a little bit sooner than most average folk that
have never even considered the thing before. So anyway, I

(48:51):
don't remember where we got to started with the question originally, Matt,
but you know, so.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Do you find them more of a detractor or is
the mirror Is the attention and the traffic assisting you.

Speaker 10 (49:02):
Well, that's another great question because with our page it's tough.
We want to strike. Do we want traffic on our page?
Of course we do. The easy way to get traffic
on a page is to post clickbait type stuff, uh,
you know, geared towards low information type people. And that

(49:24):
brings out a lot of engagement and a lot of
opinions and a lot of traffic. And that's a good
thing when you want to you know, have traffic and
build a page. But it's you know, but it's clickbait
and whatever, right, and so were We try to write
a balance between creating content that gets eyes and gets

(49:45):
attention and gets people talking, but at the same time
has educational value, and we don't always hit the mark
in that regard. There's times, you know, been like, hey,
that was probably not the best post, you know, like
let's let's revisit that, and that kind of thing, like
those are those are always learning experiences. To answer the
question more specifically, yes, those comments can be very detracted.

(50:11):
I mean the people end up getting more focused on
what is said in the comments rather than what the
actual content was, you know, saying or producing or teaching.
I'm thinking of you, we're hurting your business by engaging controllery. No,
I would say, you're not hurting the business. It's it's
great when you know, again we have all that traffic

(50:33):
and it brings a lot of eyes. But and truth
be totally, I think we've grown our Facebook page, just
the Facebook page significantly in the last year with kind
of our current it's treated. Yeah, it's it's grown probably
about thirty percent or forty percent or something like that.
But so like that's that's nice. That means also a

(50:56):
lot of that new traffic new followers are again more
on the lower and lower information side of things. So
the challenge then though is just I would say for
me as a content creator, is trying to keep myself
from becoming cynical and angry and frustrated all the time

(51:18):
and focused on actually trying to help and reach people,
especially where they are.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (51:24):
And that's that's that's tough to do because it's really
easy to get frustrated and to start screaming at everybody.
And there's lots of times where I'm like I want
to it's like you know, for the umpteenth sign Yeah,
you know it's for like the umpteenth time that somebody
comes on the page and comments about a guy's size,
about being overweight or whatever, as opposed to what he's

(51:45):
actually saying and teaching.

Speaker 6 (51:47):
Was that on your page from a couple of days? Oh,
I didn't realize I was your page. I was getting
ready to get I couldn't remember what page was. I
was getting ready to get banned off of there? What
I said to that guy? Yeah, sorry about that? If
I put in work for your admins.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
What funny though, Like with regard to what Riley's saying,
is Riley and I actually so I didn't actually say
this during the intro My real job, like, I'm the
marketing manager for Taurus USA, and Riley and I have
the exact same customers, like our cut My primary customer,
Riley's primary customer is somebody who is at the very

(52:27):
wide open end of the gun owner funnel. It is
someone who has two hundred and seventy five dollars in
their pocket and they want a gun for concealed carry,
and they're like, I'm going to go get a Turus
g X two and they do and it's and then
they have questions about concealed carry, and then they go
to Riley's page because it's Concealed Carry dot Com. So

(52:48):
clearly that's where you fucking go to ask these questions.
And they ask and I don't want to say they're
dumb questions because they're not dumb, but they are incredibly uninformed.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Questions and repetitive.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
They're so repetitive the number of times I have been
asked about holster options for one of the best selling
semi automatic pistols on the market, and I'm like, don't
you have fucking good Like, here's the thing that frustrats me.

Speaker 11 (53:16):
It's on the device they're talking to you with.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
This is this is a huge frustration for me. And
and I apologize to everyone who has sent me this
a question. At some point, I'm not talking about you
unless I am. But like when you open up your
phone and you go to Instagram and you find me,
and you open up the DMS on Instagram and you say, hey, Caleb,
what's a good holster for gun x y Z? And

(53:43):
I reply to you genuinely with a good response. Usually
I say get a dark Star gear or a filster
because those are the good holsters, But like, could you
also not have open up your phone instead of going
to Instagram and finding my profile and sending me a DM,
gone to Google had been like, what's good old ster?

(54:04):
This fucking to be fair.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
People give them a horrible response many.

Speaker 6 (54:12):
One of those, And that's why I have different things
on it, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
And that's why I reply to these people, because I say, hey, look,
you know these people d M me. And this is
one of the biggest parts of this conversation that we
don't have enough is the difference between good faith and
bad faith actors. Right, And when some someone who has
bought a g X four and it's their first carry

(54:40):
gun and they're it is a good gun. Like I'm
not saying that because I work from It's just a
fucking good gun, but like they're concealed carry knowledge. You
could pour their concealed carry knowledge into a thimble and
have space left over. Right, But they find me because
I'm the tourist brand manager and it's they bought a
Taurus and they're like, what's a good holster for this gun?

(55:02):
And I say, hey, get an easy belco belt, get
a filster skeleton for it. And your set. That person
is engaging with me in good faith because my title
and my position. They don't know fuck all about me.
They have no idea about my shooting resume, my military

(55:22):
or anything like that. But my job says Taurus. The
gun they have is a Taurus, so they automatically assume
I am a subject matter expert on it, and so
it is a it's a bird, it is an to me,
it is a moral obligation to provide those people with
the best possible information that I can, because they are

(55:43):
coming to me in good faith. The bad faith actors,
on the other hand, like some of the people that
get in my fucking YouTube comments, well, those people are
a different story. Larry's had a lot of bad faith
actors recently.

Speaker 6 (55:57):
Yeah, I was gonna say, the bad faith thing is
she huge because I get comments from nice people, like
people who haven't followed me for very long, but you
know what I mean, they're kind of squishy and the
seat where responses and I'm like, well, I started following
you for the books, but you're really mean to people.
You're mean to everyone who disagrees with you. And I
was like, who whoa whoa WOA because that's not true.
And I can prove this. I mean I have the

(56:19):
evidence of it. I mean I don't delete post they're
also there. I actually welcome disagreement and I welcome debate.
I don't welcome bad faith arguments. And really, let's be honest,
we can all tell if you've been on the internet
more than fifteen minutes, you can tell when somebody rolls
in hot looking for a fight. They come in and
they'll talk, they'll talk some trash, but there's always kind

(56:41):
of this rig The way we've set up civility on
the internet is kind of a one way street that
can be taken advantage of by horrible people. So the
way the thank you, I am pretty sav but the
role in hot looking for a fight, and I just
skip all the politically correct bull crap in the middle

(57:04):
that we would normally engage in as nice people, and
I just get right to where we're going to go eventually. Anyway,
I just go right there, and it saves time.

Speaker 11 (57:15):
And that's not the best way you need to You
need to get some engagement and get some buy in
so that when you do flip, you piss off more people.

Speaker 6 (57:28):
Exactly that it's professional.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Well, I I want to kick this over to Brian
for a second, because Brian working in the Filster Concealment Group, right,
And I was not to call out Filster as a brand,
but rather I have I was in the Filster Concealment
Group when it was a very small group of applied
violence turbo nerds, and it has now become one of

(57:54):
the largest concealed carried gen pop gun groups. And how
have you guys managed that transition from kind of knowing
that everyone there was engaging in good faith to now
having to deal with people who were asking who are
probably engaging in good faith but also dumb, Like, how

(58:14):
do you guys deal with that? And I I started
dumps on a nice thing to say about your customers,
but also they're not the questions in that group, and
they're dumb.

Speaker 8 (58:26):
So it was to our advantage to start, like you said,
as a turbine nerd small group of people that were
like just completely concealed carry experts.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
And it established the foundation.

Speaker 8 (58:40):
Yeah, and the group grew out of like just exploded
because of the enigma being so different, and the enigma
just caught fire, right, And it was John and Sarah
you go watch like their early stuff, like they were
blown away that it sold out five hundred years. They thought,
so five hundred units was going to be a six
month supply.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
For just a second, So I was in their kitchen
when they should be the prototype, right, like John and
Sarah should be the prototype of the Enigma in their
kitchen in Minnesota, and all of us agreed that we're like,
this is so fucking cool. Air Marshals and like, you know,
dev grou guys with deep concealment missions are going to

(59:19):
love this. And that was it. That was kind of
like the envelope of people that we thought were going
to think Enigma was cool was it was basically all
of our friends.

Speaker 8 (59:30):
Yeah, people that we were on it, like we know
each other or know of each other. Right, They literally
said five hundred units that should last us six months.
And what they didn't anticipate was the people were going
to see the result of the performance of what it
can do and go, I want that. I don't know
what it is, I don't know how it works, but

(59:50):
I want that because that is not.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
What I've got right now. And so it was built
like we would never.

Speaker 8 (59:59):
Launch that problem that way, like it was built for
an expert user, a ton of assembly required a ton
like it was the hardest possible way to do it right,
Like that's what we started with the most adjustability, and
so they required a ton of customer support and John
and say, that's a small company. I mean I think
they had like it was John and Syr, like Nick

(01:00:20):
and like one other person at the time, and they
were just being buried. And so what they realized was
that the Facebook group was a way that their experienced
customer base, a lot of which we're friends, could help
them do customer service right. And when they were doing
their own customer service public facing, it's helping all these
other people because every person that sends you an email,

(01:00:42):
there's twenty other people have the same question, right, and
so if you can get it out there. So that's
how it all started. But eventually it goes GenPop and
I know, I know there's a bunch of people that
I've either left the group because they're like, dude, the
conversation just isn't like the nerd level, like really cool stuff.
It's a lot of the same basic level stuff, or

(01:01:03):
they like maybe have it left, but like they're just
not really like they're not checking on it. But I
will say there's a lot of other people that have
been there a long time and they're just there because
they support John and Sarah. They support what we're trying
to do. And so even if they may find some
of the repetitive, you know, early on novice level questions
kind of you know, over and over the same thing,

(01:01:25):
they hang out because I think they appreciate being part
of the process. And the culture was set by John
and Sarah and then it was it was really kind
of enforced by the people that were there, and then
so people come in and they're like, this is the
culture of this group. And I'd say early on we
had to ban more people than we like, we really

(01:01:45):
don't hardly ever ban anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
We really don't.

Speaker 8 (01:01:49):
Earlier on, when I was started as an admin, you know,
I would I'd have to ban people periodically for certain time.
Like I knew, I knew certain posts were gonna We're
gonna call out people like they were gonna make nasty
comments and you know, you know, lose one hundred pounds
or you know, you look disgusting, or you know like
this is a stupid question, or you know that kind
of stuff, and you know, but once you establish and

(01:02:12):
there's some of these people are going to self select.
People don't want to act that way. They'll realize it's
not like they're not going to get the traction they want.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
They'll leave. But it was it's just been a cool experience.

Speaker 8 (01:02:22):
And the it's it's the it's the group itself.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
It's the group culture.

Speaker 8 (01:02:29):
And and John and Sarah being very intentional about the
way they would do things and then bringing me into
code on to try to try to do that and
just to carry it through so, you know, just being
cool to people and and understanding that. And I'll say
this too, because that was the way they started doing
this custom public facing customer service was it's not just

(01:02:51):
for the person you're answering the question for, it's everybody
else reading along. Right, So when when you show respect
to somebody and you answer their question, and then most
people these days are showing up in good faith, going
I want to learn how to do this. They're receptive
to it, and they're even receptive to like negative feedback. Now,
I try not to go in there and like burn
people down, like you know, that's that's a crappy gun.

(01:03:14):
You're never going to find a holster, like, you know,
because there are people to show up and go have
this really weird thing, and I want to find ah
all I got you know, I've got like your son
right here.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Yeah, the European Polster for like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
And I'll get questions like this on our brand, right,
people be like, hey, I need and it's it's the
crazy It's always the craziest ship, right, So let me
go buy like one of the guns that we make,
and they'll be like, I need a kaex Ai a
WB Holster for a six inch raging Hunter in four
fifty four casule, and I'll be like, that doesn't exist.

Speaker 6 (01:03:59):
I was actually just to ask you about that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
For you, Larry, I will make it exist. But for
fucking Internet Rando ten four hundred and sixty three, no
sot off for you. I'll use my industry connections. I'd like, yes,
famous writer and New York Times bestseller, but when the
New York Times likes his books, just go to j

(01:04:25):
Larry Korea woul like a holster for this that I
could make happen.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Then, I know, Currie, to surprise, the bear JM custom
probably has it.

Speaker 6 (01:04:37):
I'm a gun hipster, so actually have some other holsters
specifically because of like hipster guns.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
So yeah, I mean to be fair, like gun hipsterism
is very is very fun. But also the best holster
for that, for what I was talking about is just
get a fucking if you get a keen eye chest
holster and do that and you're in Utah. It's not
like people care if you're walking on gun anyway.

Speaker 6 (01:05:00):
So that's when like, that's work for the chest holster.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Anyway, it needs suspenders.

Speaker 6 (01:05:05):
Well, speaking of gun hipsterism, like tip the filster, that's
why I use a floodlight so much. Being a gun
nerded a like I flashlight. Even if I'm not going
to use the flashlight, I have a holster now, you know,
like no mad That saved me from buying probably fifty
different holsters.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
The two best holsters for gun writers, as a former
gun writer turned industry flak, are the filter flood light
and the Blackhawk omnivore. Because if you are doing an
evaluation of a compact or full sized and here here
here's something for the people who are listening. When we

(01:05:44):
say compact in the gun industry, we mean block nineteen sized.
That's a compact, is a glock nineteen sized gun. Okay,
that's what that word means. That it's the definition of
that word is compact equals glock nineteen or cold nineteen
eleven commander. That's a compact anyway. But when you're doing

(01:06:05):
a review of a compact or a full sized gun
and you're like, oh, well, I want to do some
holster drills with this, I don't have a holster because
it's the new turk Blaster ten thousand. Luckily they all
have rails on them, So you put a fucking shirt
streamlight TLR one on there, and you've got your holster
for it. And you always use a streamlight because the

(01:06:26):
streamlight is cheaper than the surefire.

Speaker 6 (01:06:28):
Oh I got a good deal.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
On this, And then you throw it in your flood
light or your black Hawse omnivore, and now you have
a holster to do. You can do retention drills from
the omnivore or you can do no retention from the floodlight.
That's that. When I say the floodlight was a gift
to gun writers, I'm not even joking.

Speaker 6 (01:06:49):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
So, Brian, one of the things you brought up with
the Filster group and I experienced it with primary secondary
are those people that they're saying, Yeah, the magic's not
those knowledge bombs. The group's changed. And we did a
podcast back in twenty seventeen which I just re released
on audio and it's on Rumble now. I believe it's

(01:07:14):
I think it's episode eighty seven called Plateaus, and the
idea was, our members are subscribers, our listeners, viewers, whatevers.
Readers are the ones that have they have excelled and
they've reached this point where they have a better understanding
and what used to be that explosion of knowledge every day,

(01:07:34):
it doesn't happen anymore because they have a good, solid understanding.
So now what you do with that information, or now
with what you do with this plateau is you grow
through your own teaching and your own you help other
people and don't anticipate these knowledge bombs anymore because you
were on such a and your personal knowledge increases so dramatically.

Speaker 10 (01:07:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:07:55):
Absolutely, I went through that because when I found I mean,
P and S was a big part of me figuring
a lot of stuff out, especially many years when I
first found P and S, like every day I was
getting on the main group and just or any of
the subgroups and like just reading what other people were posting,
going holy crap, like there's a level of knowledge that

(01:08:15):
you know, like none of this. A lot of the
time I was like this doesn't have you apply to me,
but I find it really interesting, you know, and just
like reading okay, like well what you know? And I
know back then it was a little different in terms
of what they were. They were the expectations where like
people were even the regular commenters were on the regular
like postingly, this is the basis of which I'm you know,
giving my opinion, like they're kind of given like a

(01:08:37):
summary of theirthme, Like, holy crap, there's some experienced people here.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
It's not just random Joe's.

Speaker 8 (01:08:44):
But then, like you said, I think like a year
or two in and you know, you okay, the the
you're not seeing like you've already seen a bunch of
stuff and it's you know, you're not seeing like it's
not every day or every week walking in Holy crap,
this is all new information.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
And it's your personal growth, which is but.

Speaker 8 (01:09:01):
Once you start picking up are the deeper nuggets, they're
just further between and you start finding them on your
own and you start connecting with with people and actually
having like more of a relationship and just to like
you recognize a name in a group post like you
actually start meeting people at classes or like chatting individually
like privately on you know, like a messenger and start

(01:09:24):
having deeper conversations and so you know, that's where you know,
talking to for me, like talking to guys like Dan
and Chris and you know, and getting to go a
train like with people like Riley. That's you know, that's
where it goes from the on like learning that way
to like it's personal and I'm actually getting someone on
one like asking the harder questions and getting the minutia.

(01:09:47):
And you know, there's a like Dan and I are
an old chat with a couple of you know, a
couple of guys, and I'm like the only non l
E guy. And so sometimes I'll be like, hey, is
this how this works? And y'all's really in y'all's job,
and they're like, no, that's not how that works. You know, Okay,
that's how I would have thought that worked. But that's
you know, to me from the outside, you know, So
just like learning a little little things about this that
or the other.

Speaker 6 (01:10:08):
You know, Yeah, just this pome.

Speaker 7 (01:10:14):
There's a dark side to this, right, So everything we're
talking about it goes back to the good faith bad
faith thing.

Speaker 12 (01:10:20):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:10:22):
So you have like the people that are seeking information.
That's the person that every single one of us has
a soft spot for in some way, shape or form. Right,
But at some point they feel like they get to
the point that they have enough information that they're not
seeking information. They want to be a purveyor of information, right,
So seeking information, noble purveying information is a declaration of prowess. So,

(01:10:48):
and I think the guys that nobia have heard me
say this before. But if you're going to have a
declaration of prowess, professional acumen deserves professional scrutiny. That's the
end of it. If you feel like you're I need
to jump in that pool and start telling everyone what
it is, be prepared for pushback. That's not a bad thing.
But what they tend to not have developed is the

(01:11:11):
ability to be to debate. Like I can vehemently disagree
with people, but if they have an opinion founded in
critical thought or experience, well now we can talk about it,
because maybe I can change my opinion if you look
at what happens on the internet very.

Speaker 4 (01:11:29):
Often if you look at the way you look at
the way doctoral research is done. Right, you do your dissertation,
and then you have to defend it against acknowledged subject
matter experts who are already professors in that subject or

(01:11:50):
adjacent to it, and they are going to ask you
difficult questions about your research. Have you thought about this,
have you considered looking at this angle for the future,
what about further explorations in this particular subcategory. And when
you've reached that level of knowledge, as as everyone on

(01:12:13):
this panel has encountered, you become less and less certain
about some things.

Speaker 5 (01:12:23):
There is, as we all know, room for debate. You know,
I may.

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
Disagree with Caleb about, you know, some of his takes
on revolver stuff, but in the long run I'm going
to defer to him on it because he knows more
than I do, and that's.

Speaker 5 (01:12:46):
All there is to it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
I may have my own perspective on it, but his
his look is from a higher level. He has a
broader and deeper understanding of the subject matter.

Speaker 5 (01:13:02):
And I think one of the.

Speaker 4 (01:13:03):
Places that that the new folks, those those people who
want to become the purveyors that Chris was just talking about,
is they they haven't gotten there and they've they've they've
held on to, uh, the first thing that they found
some value in that primacy of initial learning. This is

(01:13:24):
the first thing that I learned, So therefore it is
the truth with a capital t uh. And it can't
it can't be wrong or the thing that I have
achieved now become meaningless. And people have this emotional attachment
to that, that really early knowledge, and it bothers me

(01:13:47):
on a really fundamental level when they do things like
the thing that made me the most mad so far
on Concealed carry dot com. Uh was you know, pointing
out a j Z physique when he is making some
really poignant and nuanced points about handling firearms and how

(01:14:16):
to shoot better at a much much higher level, and
these folks chime in with, you know, the like Brian
was just saying, you know, lose one hundred pounds or
you look terrible or whatever it was.

Speaker 10 (01:14:29):
How about this this this notification just came in thirty
seconds ago. If you've got to run the claw grip,
you're too fat for appendix carry?

Speaker 5 (01:14:40):
Yeah, what about Chris.

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
Well, I mean, I'm not the most spelt guy here.

Speaker 5 (01:14:47):
I think that award probably goes to Chris Bean.

Speaker 4 (01:14:50):
And you know, the claw grip works because it works,
not because.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
You wear thirty two inch inseam pants. And I use
the clog right because it's fucking faster than trying to
jam my thumb behind the goddamn guns. Whoever said that's
dumb as fuck exactly, the staying on message but also
being very mean.

Speaker 10 (01:15:17):
Hang on, I'll be back in a minute. I got
to run to the comments here.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
I I'll do it.

Speaker 6 (01:15:23):
Dad, you're bringing that up. Man. When I saw that,
I saw it because Chris shared a link and I
saw it, and dude, I hoisted the black flag that day.
I was pissed. God, chunky guy, like I said, I'm
too eighty. I'm a big fella, and I don't know
aj I've never shot with them or anything, but I
just you know, I know of them by reputation, and

(01:15:45):
he's got a reputation of being a superbly good shooter.
And then so when that one guy he started to
talking about the Dunny Krueger ran when and he was
being a dick and then he was all like, well,
I'm an NRA sort of fight instructor, which I think
for everybody here. He probably is an NR sortfighted instruct
for some point, because you know, it's like a pre
wreck for everything else.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
And well, my intro, I know, it's like.

Speaker 6 (01:16:10):
Starting on that one, My biggest challenge of my my
two day enter re instructor cer course was not contracting. Yeah,
and oh my gosh. But so when that I started
doing that, dude, I I I genuinely I wasted the
black flag and I went, you know, full larry on
that one. And but sometimes I think I think we're

(01:16:35):
we have to like we have to like I think
there's times where there's times to be nice. In the
words of the great philosopher Roadhouse.

Speaker 4 (01:16:44):
Yeah yeah, be nice to time to not be nice.

Speaker 6 (01:16:48):
Be nice to tell us time not to be nice.
And so when a guy is doing that, when he's
talking trash about a masterclass USPSA shooter like, well he
can't run, and so somebody put up a picture him
like burning down some USPSA stage, right, and you know,
you know that the NA certified instructor guy ain't and

(01:17:09):
burning down master class times on a USPSA stage. We
all know that. It's like, you know, so at that point,
nice is out the window. It's no longer time to
be nice, and I think we have to do that,
and we have to do it in a way too
that is educational for the audience, because I don't know,
I've talked about this not in the gun context, but

(01:17:30):
like in the whiter world, because I do a lot
of the debate stuff. The rule number one of internet
arguing is you never do it for the wilfully ignorant opponent.
Internet arguing rule number one. It's a spectator sport. It's
always for the audience. So when you got some dumb
ass attack and a masterclass shooter's abilities based upon just

(01:17:52):
looking at him, at that point, I'm not going to
try to convince that guy anymore. I don't care about him.
He's now stopped existing to me as a human being,
and he is merely a rhetorical device for me to
use to prove a point to everybody else. Yeah, that
that one. That one pissed me off. Man, I'll be honest,

(01:18:13):
I got a.

Speaker 4 (01:18:15):
Yeah, that that one, and there's been several others. Riley,
credit to your social media guy, he's uh, he's selecting
clips that are.

Speaker 5 (01:18:30):
They're informative, but.

Speaker 4 (01:18:32):
To those uh inflammatory to those newer folks who who
know enough to have formed an opinion, but not not
informed enough to be able to question their own opinion.
It's it's really driving a lot of that that engagement,

(01:18:57):
and it's you know, it's populating my feed an awful lot,
largely because I'm getting mad at people and making comments.

Speaker 5 (01:19:03):
But when but when you question.

Speaker 4 (01:19:06):
The uh, you know, the the combative and fighting prowess
of somebody like Brian Hill because of you know, the
very emotionally intelligent language the man uses.

Speaker 5 (01:19:22):
Boy, you're just really you're you're.

Speaker 4 (01:19:26):
Asking to wind me up, because if I was going
to put money on somebody in a fight, Brian Hill
makes the very short list.

Speaker 8 (01:19:35):
With just about any weapons or no weapons.

Speaker 4 (01:19:40):
You know, Brian Hill could be you know, naked fighting
a bear and I'm gonna flip a coin like.

Speaker 5 (01:19:47):
It's it's not it's not something that.

Speaker 4 (01:19:57):
Of any reasonably intelligent person just throws out there.

Speaker 5 (01:20:02):
You gotta be you gotta be malicious to do something
like that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:09):
You're maliciously ignorant at that point, like Larry was just saying,
and you know, my viewpoint on this going back all
the way to this is how old I am with
Internet gun stuff, going back to the ten to eight
forums before Facebook even existed. The audience at that point

(01:20:31):
is the only people who matter because the object of
my ire is, as Larry stated rather.

Speaker 5 (01:20:37):
Eloquently, it's no longer a human being. They are in
rhetorical device.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Heck, these days they might be a bot. You know what.

Speaker 7 (01:20:45):
It's easy about it, and that one got me hot hot,
like hot hot. But here's why it goes deeper than that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:52):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:20:53):
So, first thing, everything all of us do, all of
it at some level, boils down to a person and
defending themselves with a gun. That is the basis of
all of this.

Speaker 6 (01:21:04):
Everything we do.

Speaker 7 (01:21:05):
Competition, you know, learning how to shoot, blah blah blah
blah blah. So when you have these people go in
and go, oh, you hurt, and you're different than me.
You're heavy, you're short, you're stupid, whatever these things are,
you are not worth defending. That makes me angry. And
then then to pour salt in the wound. I'm an instructor.

(01:21:27):
I'm an inembracor by instructor.

Speaker 13 (01:21:29):
So you're actively teaching people, mother, Okay, let's talk through that,
because you are destroying the very thing that people invest
their entire lives in to maybe maybe have someone survive
a deadly encounter.

Speaker 7 (01:21:46):
You piece of shit. So excuse my French, but I
get the guys that know me, I get real passionate
about this because the way I look at it, honestly,
if any of us have ever out of class or
you doing anything, any interaction you have, if they ever
get in a situation, there is a slight but yet

(01:22:08):
their likelihood that the last voice that runs through their
head is something you told them. And if you told
them you're fat and you're not worthy of defense, you're
not worthy of surviving this. You cannot possibly win. You
are a fucking failure. Yeah, and I will not be
apologetic about lighting that house on fire anytime I get

(01:22:31):
the chance. I actually sent Ryley a text to him, dude,
I'm sorry, but I'm going full in on this one.
And sorry, I got hot. I'm gonna have to smoke
a real cigarette here in a minute.

Speaker 6 (01:22:42):
Yeah. Sorry. Real.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
I didn't even know.

Speaker 6 (01:22:44):
I didn't even know I was on your page and
I saw it where Chris posted it, and I was like,
I was like, oh, this is it's on now.

Speaker 4 (01:22:52):
Man.

Speaker 6 (01:22:52):
I was like, I was like, I was like I
didn't know whose age was. Like, I'm probably getting banned
today from whatever the pages is.

Speaker 10 (01:23:00):
Now you're safe, dude, you're safe.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
The thing, the way thing in the physical fitness thing
is especially interesting in sort of the broader context of
this because like, yes, in a perfect world, all of
us would probably agree that everyone who carries a gun
should be a you know, at a minimum, a uspsa

(01:23:24):
B class shooter, a Brazilian jiu jitsu blue belt, have
you know, less than ten percent body fat, be able
to run a mile in under nine minutes? Like these
are like everything that all of those things that I
have said are all objectively good things, right, Like no
one would disagree that, like being able to do you know,

(01:23:45):
I don't know, again, fifty push ups without stopping. Is
no one's gonna be like that's a bad thing. You
shouldn't be able to do that. Of course that's a
good thing. But we live. This is such a hard
thing for people in and this is something I've struggled
with and if you sort of back get up, every
single person on this call went through what I call

(01:24:10):
the Glock nineteen phase, and that's the phase where we
all said that you're not serious about concealed carry if
you're not carrying a Glock nineteen with whatever was the
best sighting system at the time, right, Like, depending on
your age, it may have been. It may have been
a red dot, it may have been an excess big dot.

(01:24:30):
It may have been that amer glow really good, there's
really good americlow night sights, whatever the best one was.
We all at one point said, you're not serious about
concealed carry if you're not carrying a Glock nighteen with
this site system and a reload and then like a
bunch of other fucking support gear, right, and then we
all grew the fuck up, And how do you go

(01:24:51):
live in the real world where people carry guns for
all kinds of reasons and all kinds of body types
and all kinds of everything going on, and so like, yeah,
I mean, but if we back it up, is like
a compact striker filed striker fired semi automatic pistol with

(01:25:12):
an optic and a light probably like the most optimal gun.
Sure does that fit everybody's use case?

Speaker 4 (01:25:21):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
Does that fit everybody's lifestyle? And then that goes into
the whole fitness thing and like with you know, guys
like AJ guy. You know they're there are instructors out
there who are you know, the biggest fuck that I
mean fuck Rob Leatham, the greatest living pistol shooter in
the world, definitely cannot run a mile faster than me. Right,

(01:25:46):
Like he's had two me replacements. I guarantee that in
an actual gunfight, Rob Leatham would murder me and there
would like before my gun comes out of the holster,
I'm dead against Rob. So like it's but it's so
difficult for us in the industry, especially to remember that

(01:26:08):
people out there in the real world are accountants and
you know, to borrow phrase from the from Larry Vicker's
printer repairmen and but all of these things. People have
normal ass lives and they're just trying to carry guns
to defend their families and defend themselves. And for us
to say, like, oh, well, you're not serious about concealed

(01:26:30):
carry unless you can, you know, run a seven minute
mile and bench two times your body weight and you're
a resilient ju jitsu blue belt and you're a USPSA
B clustionater. Go fusk yourselves to these people. Good information, Yeah, right,
Like I cannot bench press twice my body weight, there's

(01:26:52):
my body weight is not that much.

Speaker 6 (01:26:53):
There's a thing I've noticed, and it's not just in shooting,
but it's just a it's a human psychology thing. In
any endeavor, we're people seek out skills where there's always
going to be someone who has to come into that
discussion and shit on it. And it's it's because for
whatever reason, they have some sort of whatever their problem is,
their dad didn't love them enough. I don't know, they've

(01:27:14):
got some sort of self esteem thing going on, and
when they see somebody else out there being successful or
trying to be successful at any endeavor, they're going to
come in and shit on it. And so like any
of us post a video of us shooting, there's going
to be that the targets ain't shooting back. Try that
after running a mile whatever. You know, it's all the
usual cliche bullshit, But it's also another thing. If I

(01:27:37):
see people talking about I wrote my first short story
and I'm going to try to sell it, and people
will come and shit on them. Yeah, physical fitness. If
you have a guy just starting out in jiu jitsu
and he's a spazy white belt, you know, high calorie
white belt, there will be somebody in the audience. It's

(01:27:59):
not usually Uitu people because all the jiu jitsu people
are Okay, good job, dude, stick with it. I am
the spassy I gallery white belt I know, and there
will be people who are who will come in and
will shit on you well a side, because you're not
as tough as they are. If you've got a guy
going to the gym lifting weights, there will be someone
shitting on them because they can lift more, or they.

Speaker 1 (01:28:20):
Claim a friend of mine, A friend of mine once said,
and this has stuck with me for a for I
mean god, thirty years now. Never make fun of the
fat person in the gym because they're trying to do
something about it.

Speaker 6 (01:28:35):
Damn right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
Yeah, so that's a no, go ahead, tom No, I
was gonna say. So.

Speaker 11 (01:28:43):
That is actually one thing where the jiu jitsu community
is so in the US is relatively new. You know,
probably didn't see anything any real major market movement probably
till early two thousand, two five ten. Is a much
better group of people to where they embrace and they
understand their culture and they understand that they're in a

(01:29:05):
niche and they do it better. The spazy white belt
gets embraced that gym doesn't survive unless they keep getting spazy.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
White belts in, so they do do that.

Speaker 10 (01:29:16):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
I have to address something in the chat here for
a second, because for some reason I am actually reading
the chat for some reason and I don't know what causes.
People are talking about the pair ordinance LDA system, the
light double action that they put. Yes, that that okay,
So I probably have more rounds on the LBA guns

(01:29:40):
than anybody not named Todd Jarrett, because Todd was an
employee of Para at the time. And when I tell
you that trigger was an amazing trigger in the wrong
gun at the wrong time. So nice. This is like
six months where I'm gonna like like this is gun

(01:30:03):
nerd stuff here, and I'll go back to talking about
how much people on the internet suck in a minute.
But like the squirrel, it's not my fault. They said
it in your chat, Matt, I am responding to what
I'm giving the people what they want. So I shot
my very first bianche cup was with a pair ordinance
eighteen to nine LDA tack five, so I magne. I

(01:30:24):
had a bunch of silly shit on it. The gun
did not work like fundamentally the gun would not feed
one hundred and fifteen grade fmj ambo. But my god,
so the trigger. To describe the LDA trigger, imagine the
best revolver trigger you've ever pulled, and then make it

(01:30:45):
lighter and better. It was an l EM before the
l EM even existed. It was such a fucking good trigger.
And it is such a shame that it was in
the hands a bunch of fucking retards at ERA who
could be market a gun or make it. They somehow
couldn't make a nineteen eleven that.

Speaker 10 (01:31:04):
Worked, and.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
A lot of people can't do that.

Speaker 6 (01:31:09):
I had an LBA. I had one also way back when,
because they came out back when I owned a gun store,
and it was like it was like the new hotness.
And it's like I said, it was a very It
was a very cool trigger. And I don't think I
ever shot a magazine without at least one malfunction.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
The trigger was good. The guns couldn't complete the cycle of.

Speaker 6 (01:31:33):
Operationship I was a forty column so I was forty
five caliber, and and you think it was it was awful.
It was objective.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
I had a so, I I had a pair, I
had multiple pair ordinance guns. I had a seven to
forty five LDA, which was good. Then I had an
eighteen nine LDA, which which will be fair. It was
one of the early double set nine mil nineteen eleven
style guns. Like I get, it's gonna have problems, but

(01:32:05):
it had so many problems, but it was. It's a
shame because it was. I mean when I tell you,
this one was laser beam accurate and had just the
nicest trigger in the world. I'm not joking, but again
it you know, couldn't feed an eighteen round magazine without
having average two stoppages per magazine, which when you're trying

(01:32:26):
to shoot the Yankee cup is fine. So long as
those stoppages don't happen in the first six rounds, you're good.
Just keep changing magazine.

Speaker 6 (01:32:35):
Somebody just mentioned the bull sas I'm gonna date myself
here because my three gun pistol was the was forty five,
but it was the Kimber Bull.

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
Larry, remember that thing.

Speaker 1 (01:32:49):
I remember reading the e arc of the very first
Monster Hunter book. I own like every.

Speaker 6 (01:32:56):
Gun in that book. Man, I stuck every gun I
owned in that book.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
So for people who don't know, I read so Larry
and I have known each other for a really long time,
and I read the releases. Golly, I read a re
release PDF of his very first Monster Hunter book. As
a PDF file, you just had to like scroll it
right like you could you have like digital bookmarks or

(01:33:22):
any of this fancy shit.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
You just scrolled through it.

Speaker 6 (01:33:24):
Fancy day.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
I remember reading the Guds and I was like, what
a fucking nerd because one of the main character's primary
pistol was the bull double stacked nineteen eleven. And when
I tell you that no one has ever successfully imported
bulls to the United States, Kimber tried, Charles Daily tried,

(01:33:48):
They're on their like fifth importer and they can't get
those guns to catch on even now in the twenty
eleven revolution, but you had. He had a double stack
forty five ACP bull with excess sites. And when I
look back on that now, I'm like, God, what a
product of the early two thousands. Though that was that
was the coolest fucking gun you could get in like

(01:34:11):
two three.

Speaker 6 (01:34:13):
Mine ran great.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
It was a Crules Ran good. The bulls are I
will stand on business. The Jews make good double stack
nineteen eleven's Those bulls are good guns.

Speaker 6 (01:34:26):
It was awesome. It was a great gun. I love
that thing. I still have it, I mean, but it's
worn out now, but it's uh.

Speaker 1 (01:34:34):
On it. It does amazing ten out of ten, no notes, that.

Speaker 6 (01:34:41):
Was the hotness band. That was the hotness back in
the old days.

Speaker 1 (01:34:45):
Oh man.

Speaker 6 (01:34:46):
I guess part of this episode two should be about,
like the humility to continue learning and not just stop.

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
So I'm not there.

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
No like, and there's a realness to that, because I
would like to go back to me on in those
firing line forum days, you know, twenty plus years ago,
and I'd just like to very quietly, just like just
get him in a rear nakadure, like, go the fuck
to sleep. Just don't don't post that. Don't say that
to Craig douglast. Craig Douglass is smarter than you. You

(01:35:15):
don't know who Craig doug list is. Go fuck a sleep,
which to sort of recontextualize that in the context of
what we're talking supposed to be talking about on this show.
Grace is also important because there are people who start
off as not even bad faith engagers, but people who

(01:35:37):
start off they they don't know what they don't know,
but they're very confident, and they may be very talented, right,
Like I have been a fairly good shooter since I
picked up a gun. I have an aptitude. I had
an aptitude for it, right, And that gave me a
level of confidence that I hadn't fucking earned and I

(01:35:57):
didn't deserve to have. And so I said some shit
twenty fifteen years ago that I would really like to
fucking walk back. And I'm very glad that that version
of the Internet has kind of disappeared. But you know,
there are people that we're going to encounter on Facebook

(01:36:18):
and Instagram and all of these other apps who are
at that point, right. They may have discovered they have
an aptitude for this, they may be kind of good
at it, they may be physically fit, they may be this,
that or the other thing, but they don't know what
they don't know. So they're going to engage with you
in a way where they're going to come off, like,
for lack of a better word, a hunt. And we

(01:36:39):
also need to allow those people to grace and the
space to grow the fuck up, because everyone's got to
grow the fuck up at some point. Some people never do,
but optimally, these people who kind of engage with us.
Sometimes maybe they will, maybe, you know, five years later
they'd be like, man, I wish I hadn't been addict

(01:37:01):
Riley on concealcarry dot com, or I wish I had
you know, asked really dumb questions in the Filster Concealment
group with Brian and there is I think one of
the bad things that our society has done is we've
created this permanent Internet record, right like I did so
much dumb shit before the Internet even existed. And I'm

(01:37:23):
really glad that, like there's no permanent Internet record of that.
And now all of these kids and I say that, man,
I mean it, you know who are in their early
twenties are going online and they are so afraid of
that permanent Internet record that they might not ask that question.

(01:37:43):
And we need to as the industry professionals, as the
subject matter experts, we need to be able to extend
a measure of grace to people as well. A pastor
many many years ago who said that mercy is not

(01:38:04):
getting what you deserve, and grace is getting what you
don't deserve. And I think that we as soubing matter
experts sometimes need to take a step back and extend
a measure of grace to people and give them what
they don't deserve, give them a good faith answer even
when they're not engaging in good faith.

Speaker 2 (01:38:27):
I did a post recently sharing this picture right here,
where basically in the post they said, unless you know
the person you're interacting with and you're talking about guns
or whatever, consider this is probably how they do their
dry practice. This is my five year old with my shirt,
pistol and a little interactive electronic target.

Speaker 1 (01:38:51):
Those little gigahs are so much fun.

Speaker 2 (01:38:53):
Yeah, But keeping that in mind, realizing and recognizing, you
know what, I'm not talking to someone with a with
an in depth background and they're misled or they have
a misunderstanding. That's giving me a little bit more patience
trying to explain concepts and taking a step back, taking
a breath and going, have you ever have you ever

(01:39:14):
studied anything under factler or have you heard of doc
g k R or anything like that when we get
into ballistics or you name it. But realizing now the
people that we're interacting with, they're in their own they're
they're in their own little world. Most likely on their
Facebook profile, their their background picture has a Harley on it.

(01:39:37):
I don't know why that seems to be a consistent thing.

Speaker 1 (01:39:40):
But but but ultimately, so.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
I consider that the people that are here that I'm
talking to, these are people I go to if I
have a question about something, I have no problem asking,
and I'm confident in the response I'm going to get
that it's going to be it is an good faith
but it's also going to be good information. And those
the random people that I interact with, I don't know
what they're doing dealing with. I don't know what their
frame of references, and so I might need to take

(01:40:10):
a little extra a couple extra steps and explain something
that hey, maybe there's a there's a concept that it's
not that it has not been addressed with them. That
being said, I'm going to take a one minute I
think it's one minute thirty nine second pause, run some
quick ads. If you're quick, you can use the bathroom,
get a drink, snack or whatever. This will be real quick,

(01:40:32):
so our feed will die, ads will run, and then
we'll come back as soon as the ads are back.
So there we go. Lucky Gunner carries Ammo for sale
and only offers in stock cheap Ammo with fast shipping.
Whether you're looking for rifle AMMO and gun AMMO, rim
fire AMMO or shotgun AMMO, you've come to the best
place on the Internet to find it all in stock

(01:40:53):
and righted ship. Lucky Gunner also has the popular Lucky
Gunner Labs, which provides side by side comparisons of the
best defensive ammunition available today.

Speaker 5 (01:41:04):
If you need.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
AMMO, and really we all do, check out Luckygunner dot com. Hey,
this is primary and secondary's aisystem.

Speaker 14 (01:41:12):
Filster kicked off by producing high quality holsters and in
depth instructional videos on YouTube. Currently, Filter creates industry setting
usable trends with their designs. With that same vision of
effective concealment in mind, they've expanded a substantial library of
educational content on concealed carry techniques and best practices. Now
they've even got phil They're own aisisteed to help you
navigate all those options and pick what works best for you.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
For more information, visit Filsterholsters dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:41:38):
Walter is the performance leader in the firearms industry, renowned
throughout the world for its innovation. Since Carl Walter and
his son Fritz created the first blowback semi automatic pistol
in nineteen oh eight. Today, the innovative Spirit builds off
the invention of the concealed carry gun with a PPK
series by creating the PPQ PPS and the Q five
match steel frame series. Military police and other government security

(01:42:01):
groups in every country in the world to rely on
the high quality, craftsmanship and rugged durability of Walter products.
Walter continues its long tradition of technical expertise and innovation
in the design and production of firearms. For more information,
visit Walterarms dot com. And that's how it's done, and
everyone's back. It's a Christmas miracle.

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
A huge shout out to Lucky Gunner because they are phenomenal,
like this is, this is They don't pay me, but
like I buy most of my AMMO from Lucky Gunner
when I actually have to like pay for my AMMO.
But you know, it's the best shipping, great emails, instantaneous communication.

(01:42:45):
They're basically like the Amazon of ammo. Guys. So like,
if you want like Ammo, go to Lukiegunner dot com
and uh and then also tell them when you do,
when you submit your order, put a note in that
says I want more or Manny Mansfield videos because Chris
hates those. You don't understand those videos, like Chris is

(01:43:08):
a friend, Chris Baker who does all of the content
for them, one of the nicest people in the world,
and the many Mansfield videos stress him out in like
a funny way, and not like in a bad way,
but in a funny way. So just like, demand more
manny videos from Lucky Gutter because joy to my soul.

Speaker 6 (01:43:30):
I shot, I've shot with, I've gone to classes with Chris.
He's a great dude.

Speaker 1 (01:43:35):
He's the guy again, one of the nicest human beings
you'll ever meet in God's Earth. But those manny Mansfield
videos are stressful, and I kind of like fucking with
my friends, So ask for more many videos.

Speaker 6 (01:43:51):
And I saw the commercial was the other commercial was
Walter Man. I think posted Walter me is a brand
influence or something because I've been selling some Walters for
them lately.

Speaker 5 (01:44:03):
Well is that over here?

Speaker 6 (01:44:07):
Yeah? Actually, yeah, that was Well. I always it's an
excuse for me to purchase more guns as I write
different books and I put all the real guns in
them and the ar and there is another one I built,
so yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:44:22):
Basically okay, so Larry yours.

Speaker 6 (01:44:26):
I write books so I can have a tax write
off for research purposes.

Speaker 1 (01:44:30):
Okay, now, I Larry, I know people have clowned you
for like product placement in books, and I am going
to call out an industry guy someone I know not like, well,
like I don't like before you say that.

Speaker 6 (01:44:46):
Though there is a Taurus eighty five in American.

Speaker 1 (01:44:50):
Paladin, I haven't read it yet, so no spoilers, like
as like, well, okay, well, as long as a good
guy uses it, I'm okay with that. But anyway, good guy.

Speaker 6 (01:45:01):
It's actually a good girl, and she's the kind of person,
as I refer to it is the kind of person
who buys a gun at a pawnshop and then keeps it
in a soft drawer.

Speaker 1 (01:45:10):
Which is what the Doors eighty five is perfect for.
But as a side, however, your your product placement is
benign and casual compared to someone who we all like
and all genuinely respect, Jack Carr's product placement. Jack Carr
in The Terminalist novels, and I love Jack Carr. I

(01:45:33):
love the Terminalist novels. They're some of my favorite books.
But it's so appressive with the product placement. It's like
James Reeves drew his stig P two twenty six equinox
with a Louipold delta point and you're like, Okay, calm
the fuck down, Jack, Like there was a the one

(01:45:55):
that sticks out with me, and again I love Jack,
amazing dude, like legit American hero, Like what a great story,
Like dude serve his country and is now rich from
writing books. Like fuck, you can't not love that, right,
But like there was a bit in I Forget which
the Terminalist books where the main character of James Reace

(01:46:18):
has to like deflate a boat and he stabs it
with his knife and there's like at least a one
paragraph description of the knife, and I'm like, calm your tips, Jack,
I I you don't need to know about the brand
of the knife that he stabbed his boat with.

Speaker 2 (01:46:35):
So Larry, ye oh sorry.

Speaker 10 (01:46:38):
The only thing missing is a QR code yeah to
the product by now, and.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
Like, brother, listen to me. I am the king of
product placement. As a matter of fact, right now, if
you go to shopturist dot com and use the code
Holiday twenty, you'll get a free instructional DVD of me
teaching you how to shoot a motherfucker revolver. Is that
the Pantheo DVD. Yes, it is. It is the DVD as.

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
A matter of fact, So Larry do yeah. So if Larry,
if you're going to do a jack card description of
your Walter.

Speaker 1 (01:47:15):
Oh, I need, I need this right now.

Speaker 6 (01:47:19):
Oh man, I can't get this off the top of
my head. Well, it's a other than like the handsome
bald man drew forth his uh Walter PDP x pro
with the trig Con s r oh and a surefire
light out of his Filster flood light Ulster with doctor

(01:47:40):
shouls chill insert.

Speaker 2 (01:47:43):
That's for detail we want doctor.

Speaker 6 (01:47:48):
I got that from a new using a Parker Mountain machine.
It is a PM using a Parker Mountain Machine single
point comp uh and uh, I don't know. And then
I would throw in, set, sit up and have a
hot chick and then I shoot a monster.

Speaker 12 (01:48:06):
As the Walter PDP steel frame broke the Filster floodlight,
the light gleamed off the miraculous metal finish.

Speaker 6 (01:48:19):
With the CRT seventeen pound VSPIC recoil spring. And I
can't remember who made the bass pack, but it looks cool.

Speaker 1 (01:48:32):
Oh, it's gonna be in the matter what is my
favorite one of these that I've done in years.

Speaker 8 (01:48:41):
Always don't need to do the room with exactly sixty
three thousand, four hundred Canadella.

Speaker 5 (01:48:46):
Yes, well, we.

Speaker 2 (01:48:48):
Still have airing a grievances this month to do too,
And I.

Speaker 1 (01:48:52):
Need to be very very clear because sometimes people think
that I'm talking this is actually a problem. So to
go all the way back to the intro. When Scott,
who is a friend of mine, you know, referred to
me as the good troll, I very much, at a
time in my life had a persona where I would

(01:49:12):
fuck with people with the intent of trying to get
them to good information at the end of it, right,
And the negative side of that, and the side of
that that I genuinely would like to walk back about
my personality is I'm not actually out here fucking looking
for fights. People who know me, like Larry knows me,

(01:49:33):
Tom knows me. Riley and I actually had a beef
which was resolved very amicably because it turns out we're
both fucking grown ups.

Speaker 10 (01:49:43):
That's honestly the beef dude, So I think you're the
one beef.

Speaker 1 (01:49:48):
No, I didn't have a beef, so I made fun
of Fuck, what's his name. Oh, this is gonna this
is gonna start the beef up again. Fuck, I can't
his name. He is a an incredibly talented shooter. I
think he's a GM, but his real job.

Speaker 2 (01:50:07):
As a plumber.

Speaker 10 (01:50:08):
Uh oh oh Mark Smith.

Speaker 1 (01:50:11):
Yeah so I so I made fun of Mark Harrell
and it was we're not going to talk about that.
The word you just said. I like, I made a
very like light jesting comment about Mark because he said
something about someone else and I was like, that's a
crazy thing for a plumber to say. And then you
and I did an Instagram live and we chatted about

(01:50:33):
it because we're fucking grown ups, and like people were like, oh,
Caleb hates Mark, and I'm like, I don't hate Mark.
I don't fucking know Mark. Like, the problem is is
that when you do and this kind of this ties
into the audience capturing all the other things, when you get
yourself a reputation for going after people, you're sort of

(01:50:56):
stuck with that reputation and then you're like, hang on,
this isn't actually what I want to do or who
I am as a person, and this is detracting from
the message that I want to share with people. Then
you have to. Then you're in my position. We're like,
hey on, can we walk back all of the times
that I was a dickhead?

Speaker 4 (01:51:12):
And the problem, the problem with that is that you can't,
and that you can't. Well, it's not just that, you know,
if you look, all human communication shares four things, right,
you have the sender, you have the message, you have
the medium, and you have the receiver and arguably the.

Speaker 6 (01:51:36):
You know, the the.

Speaker 4 (01:51:37):
Medium of social media is really what lends itself to
miscommunication because you are missing all of the really important
stuff of force and tone and volume. You're you're missing
a whole lot of stuff. And except for things along

(01:52:00):
in this line where we can actually see each other's
faces to a certain extent, you know, you're you're missing
uh in all the stuff that we read, you know,
on Facebook comments and Instagram comments and stuff like that,
you're missing all of the uh, you know, the micro expressions.
You're missing, you're missing all of all of the subtext

(01:52:22):
of the words that are being used. Because and I
teach this in my law enforcement communications class, is there
is a huge difference between me saying to Matt landfair Man,
fuck you and me looking at you know, somebody else
and being like, fuck you. There's it's the same exact language,

(01:52:46):
and the difference in the subtext there is it is
night and day. One of them is a congenial jest
between friends and others fight in words, right.

Speaker 1 (01:53:03):
I can if Larry sends me a text and he's like, hey,
I had an idea for one of my characters to
do this with a revolver, and I text him back
and I say that's fucking retarded. Larry's not going to
be mad at me. He's going to be like, oh, well,
this guy who has shot hundreds of thousands of round
through revolvers thinks this is a bad idea. Oh, that's
probably a bad idea. We're not going to do that.

(01:53:24):
But if random internet guy four thousand says, oh, I'm
going to do this, and I say that to him,
I have which bended his mother, his father, his lineage,
all of the other things.

Speaker 2 (01:53:42):
Well, and on the internet, if you don't know the person,
that's automatically a negative.

Speaker 1 (01:53:46):
Yeah, that's that's very true.

Speaker 5 (01:53:48):
Yeah, And that's that.

Speaker 4 (01:53:50):
And that's what I think we have to be kind
of cautious of. And I think our individual personalities kind
of play into this right, you said you're a fundamentally
unseerious person, and if I didn't know that about you,
I'm going to read the way you write things very

(01:54:12):
differently than now having that information. You know, having you know,
having shared a car ride with Chris Bean for eighteen hours,
I know a little bit more about that man and
how he communicates than I do.

Speaker 5 (01:54:29):
You know about landfare where we've you know, we've.

Speaker 4 (01:54:32):
Had interactions over the Internet, We've met in person once
or twice. You know, we know each other, but there's
not that understanding of all the subtext of how we communicate.

Speaker 5 (01:54:45):
You know, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:54:46):
Tom by reputation only, and that he's the guy from
Dark Star. You know, I've never met Tom, you know,
and his fantastic, fantastic hand omarms.

Speaker 5 (01:54:56):
This is fantas is great, right this, But.

Speaker 4 (01:55:02):
If if I were to be having in exchange with
Tom via social media comments, I can't I can't pick
up on the fact that he's sitting in his kitchen
with his fan on and the and the ceiling and
he's you know, chilling out in the evening time. I
have no idea what what his emotional regulation is. I

(01:55:22):
have no idea of the force and the tone and
all of the context of what he's trying to get
across to me, and I may read it in a
way that is completely and totally different than how he
intends we when we are doing this, this addressing UH
via social media, I think.

Speaker 5 (01:55:42):
We got to be really really careful with some of
this stuff.

Speaker 7 (01:55:46):
And I lose.

Speaker 4 (01:55:47):
I'll be the first one when when somebody you know
says something UH that is a a provocative comment, a
trolling comment you know about you know, Ryan Hill, doesn't
nobody's talking about or a J's fat or whatever is
going on like.

Speaker 5 (01:56:02):
That that pokes at me.

Speaker 4 (01:56:04):
But I have to be I have to be cognizant
of the fact that my emotions have now been provoked.
I'm still trying to get the best information to the
audience possible, not just engage with this particular asshole.

Speaker 11 (01:56:18):
Well, I would say, you're you're gonna film in the
you know, on on social media.

Speaker 1 (01:56:23):
You're gonna fill in the blanks of.

Speaker 11 (01:56:25):
The context you don't have with everything else that's around you.
So and and the feed is set up to give
you some if you're gonna respond to which is negative
regarding to get pissed off uh, you know, no different
than yeah, you know, like work emails, teams, calls, stuff
like that everybody deals with. Nobody nobody hears that ring

(01:56:48):
tone and and like a.

Speaker 2 (01:56:53):
Well and then also people automatically assume that you're you're
angry with your reply. And one of the things for
the longest time I had to explain people is I'm
not angry. Read my post in the voice of Ron
Swanson from Parks and I'm not angry. That's exactly what's happening. Well, yeah,
that too, but I've said that many times. Yeah, with
my post, read it in the voice of Roun Swanson

(01:57:13):
and it will make a lot more sense because there
is no emotion behind this. This is just information.

Speaker 6 (01:57:19):
That's it's once people use it. In fact, many many,
many years ago, we made the Internet arguing checklist bingo cards,
and one of them was you sound angry because because
it's actually something going back to the bad faith people.

Speaker 1 (01:57:34):
Okay, Larry, you Larry, you have catalog and collected like
an Internet argument zoo. Yeah, you got acronyms, You've got
fucking shit like you want to.

Speaker 6 (01:57:49):
You wanna hear that's gonna blow your mind on this topic.
I have Actually, this is no bullshit. Have been asked
I have done this before where I have a PhD
of neuroscience has brought me in to talk to his
class about the psychology of how humans argue on the Internet. Like,
no shit, that is a true story.

Speaker 1 (01:58:09):
That doesn't surprise me even at the least bit because
you have like, but when I call myself a troll, like, yeah,
I fuck with people online like for fun, and I
don't even I'm a zoologist, That's the thing. I so like,
I what what I did years ago, and I don't

(01:58:33):
even do anymore. I don't throw people anymore, but I
did it for fun. Larry does professionally observationally and takes
fucking notes. You're the Jane goodall of Internet controls. You're
out there, miss the ape, observing your behaviors, being like,

(01:58:55):
and how can I make this ape do this thing?
Oh well, if I poke this, but the April dance
in this way, and then the fucking ape dances in
the way that you said it was gonna dance.

Speaker 6 (01:59:06):
I have lived amongst the morons for seven days and
they still do not know that I am not one
of them.

Speaker 7 (01:59:11):
Now we observe Jim Bob three two.

Speaker 8 (01:59:18):
That's what you're saying is is we need David Attenborough
to be like narrating like a.

Speaker 1 (01:59:23):
Oh my god, did you guys see the Crocodile Hunter
When I did, yes, yes, yeah, okay.

Speaker 6 (01:59:30):
So it was a kind of a running joke. When
I'd find like a really wacky one, I would just
start narrating them like I was the crocodile Hunter and
I was like like, oh, cranky, this is a this
is a big one, and I would just start doing
It drives people bonkers. They just they go livid with
rage as you just crocodile hunter them as like I'm
having to gently gently take them from the watering hole,

(01:59:53):
you know, And I'm like, people are arguing with each
other and I'm like narrating the whole thing. Yeah. That
that that really creates low IQ people just see. You know,
I don't recommend that one unless you're professional. What we
What were you saying? I was saying something and I got, oh, oh,
you sound angry. So that's a bad faith thing because

(02:00:14):
a lot of these people aren't emotionally regulated, and so
to them they read like you said like that you're
saying you're you're you're saying it in the tone of
Ron Swanson, right, yeah, but they're gonna even if they
even if they don't believe it, they're still gonna describe
you as unhinged, granting, crashing out. I mean, you could say,

(02:00:36):
with complete dispassion, just the most factual statement ever, and
they'll be like, you sound angry because it's it's honestly,
it's gonna have a bully now if your wife is
doing that, that's kind of you. Guys. Guys need to
work that out.

Speaker 2 (02:00:54):
And you know what I think about Larry like me,
so think about Larry.

Speaker 7 (02:00:58):
No, Well, sometimes you try and form that speech in
a socratic pursuit, so there is literally no opinion involved.
People confused that with a position like to go back
to debate, you know where it's from, seek to this

(02:01:21):
is a position. And what I think is the lost star.
And this I wish Justin was here because something he's
been doing lately and it's something I did in the
past but kind of cued me into doing it again,
is just provide citation, you know, And I think that's
a lost ar on the internet, where this is an opinion,
this is research, you know, and be mad at the

(02:01:44):
research all you want. They ain't my numbers, They're just numbers.

Speaker 3 (02:01:50):
So you're saying that the three yards, three shots, three seconds, guys,
they need to cite their sources.

Speaker 1 (02:01:56):
Hold on, wait, and they don't exist. Here's the I'm
gonna stand in defense of the three three three for
a second because if you look at the incredible volume
of defensive gun fights from armed citizens, right, Like, we're

(02:02:20):
not talking about cops, we're not talking about military people.
We're just talking about people who are carrying guns to
protect their lives. The vast majority of them occur in
transitional spaces, right, parking lots, like areas in between where
you're going and where you're trying to get.

Speaker 6 (02:02:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:02:40):
The that I mean, the screaming majority of in transitional spaces,
and the screaming majority of them occur within occur secondarily
around cars and thirdly within a car's length from shooter
shooter to attacker.

Speaker 6 (02:03:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:03:01):
So, like this is this is one of the things
that I struggle with professionally, is three three three slowest, smooth,
smooth as fast. All of this, all of these tautologies
that we have in our space started from a place
of good faith. They all from a place of trying

(02:03:24):
to take people from I bought a gun and I
don't know what to do with my fucking hands. Yeah,
and get them to a place where they could at
the very least defend themselves in a what was for
them the most high probability scenario for self defense, which

(02:03:44):
is a dangerous attacker within a car's length of you
who is trying to assault you. Right like so, And
this is this is the reverse of the trolling. There
is a point where you get too small and you
forget that your use case isn't everybody else's use case.

(02:04:05):
And that's the glock nineteen guy, right, like I talked
about earlier. That's the guy who's like, if you're not
carrying a glock nineteen in a reload and a clinch
pick and pepper spray and that there's things you're gonna
get killed by ninjas, which you should carry a glock
nineteen and a reload and a clinch pick and pepper
spray and all of those things. That's great if that,

(02:04:26):
like you can do that every day and not get
fired from your fucking job. Do that, But that's not
that's not most people's use case.

Speaker 3 (02:04:36):
Yeah, But see most people are going to take a
little bit of truth, right.

Speaker 6 (02:04:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:04:40):
I deal with this.

Speaker 8 (02:04:41):
I deal with this in my in my engineering job,
where I have a really complex subject that I have
to explain to somebody that doesn't have ten or more
years doing what I do, right, and they're the they're
the person making decisions, and I've got to explain it
to them. And the real challenge can be what they're
looking for is an outcome that they find or a

(02:05:03):
result that they find desirable, and if they'll latch onto
something that I say that they think supports that and
what I said was the truth or there was truth
in it, but it's not the whole truth, or they're
misapplying it, or they're misunderstanding it, or they're oversimplifying things.
And it makes them feel better because I understood I

(02:05:27):
want this, you said something similar to or like that,
I'm gonna latch onto that. Now that's my justification for going, Okay,
this is what we're gonna do, because this is really what.

Speaker 3 (02:05:38):
I wanted to do or how I wanted to feel.
I wanted this problem to go away. Right.

Speaker 8 (02:05:43):
I tell people a lot of bad news in my
real job, and they don't want to hear the bad news, right,
and so I think a lot of folks it's scary,
like you know, facing criminal violence would be scary, And
so I want to hear I don't have to shoot
for other than three year olds because I'm not very
good at it, right deep down, I know that I'm
not that great. I want to have three seconds to

(02:06:05):
get a shot off because I ain't that quick. I've
never put a timer on it, but I know I'm
not that fast, you know, And you know, three rounds.
I can shoot probably through three rounds, you know. So
I mean, I I think that's kind of where it
comes from. I think it's a natural human thing. So
you're trying to avoid it. They're trying to protect themselves.

Speaker 5 (02:06:25):
So if you look at it from a.

Speaker 4 (02:06:30):
Sort of sort of an adult learning thing, if you
look at rich what Richard Feinman said, he said, if
you can't explain all of what you know to somebody
like you would explain it to a five year old,
you really don't know it all that well. I can't
explain to a fucking first grader exactly. And that's you know,

(02:06:53):
it's where the you know, the Internet culture of you know,
explain it like I'm five, came from that? That is
that is true? There is like like Brian just said,
there is truth in that. And if we're going to
look at like the three three three right, Uh, Caleb,
you made a good point about the within a car length, right,

(02:07:15):
So that's most American sedan is what fifteen seventeen feet tops?
You know it's it's it's you know, three three to
five yards. Sure, you know you can call it two
three four rounds. I get where it's where that oversimplification
is coming from. But the problem is is when we

(02:07:37):
provide that that explanation to a five year old, uh,
and that becomes the bar of good enough.

Speaker 5 (02:07:48):
That's that's problematic.

Speaker 4 (02:07:50):
It becomes dog well you also look at it becomes
dogmatic because it becomes this, well, this is the you
usual case.

Speaker 5 (02:08:01):
This is what I need to be prepared for.

Speaker 4 (02:08:06):
You know, but what's uh, what's time given?

Speaker 5 (02:08:11):
Say?

Speaker 4 (02:08:11):
He says, if you've got one foot in an ice
pocket and one foot's on fire, your average is comfortable.

Speaker 1 (02:08:20):
So the three three three thing right, like, and with
the car is I use the cars specific example because
you can find lots of defensive videos of people getting
into gunfights in and around cars, right like average civilians,
because that shit happens. And if you just sort of
absorb the surface level information like, oh, the distances are

(02:08:44):
going to be short, the you know that sort of thing. Sure,
that's great, But then you actually watch the videos and
what you're seeing is people are engaging threats around cover,
they're dealing with partial targets, they're doing all of these
other things right, Like, just because my engagement is within
a car length doesn't mean that my only shootable target

(02:09:08):
on this car length because oh my god, I'm trying
to get my child to cover. I'm ducking behind the
a pillar of my car, and the only spot on
this bad guy that I have to shoot is you know,
four inches of his arm that's sticking out around the
back of my truck. Well, I want to be able
to fucking shoot those four inches, right. So when people

(02:09:29):
talk about oh, well, and this is the problem is
Nuance is fucking dead, Like we've taken Nuance. We killed
that bitch. And because I can say, yeah, the most
likely statistical gunfight for me is to freight someone in
or around my car while they try to jack me

(02:09:51):
as I'm loading groceries or getting gas or this, that
or the other thing, and that's fine, which is why
I should also be paired to shoot that person and
thread that bullet in between the A pillar and the
B pillar of my car so it hits them in
their fucking eye hole.

Speaker 6 (02:10:09):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:10:09):
Like you can say all of these things to try
to denigrate gaining skill, but the reality is this, the
more the more skills you, it's never a bad idea
to be better at fucking shooting.

Speaker 5 (02:10:26):
Well, that's.

Speaker 7 (02:10:28):
Hold on because I want to jump in on this one, Brian,
please killing me for a minute. So one of the
first things you learn in risk analysis, and Tom and
Brian have probably heard this is statistics do not equate
necessarily to probability. Yes variable and the variable depending on
what you're working with, especially if you're talking about the

(02:10:50):
human variable. It takes all your statistics and throws them
in the trash because you have an unknown piece of
the equation. I mean, that's a general staple of engineering
where you learn, like, okay, the math mass until the
earth shakes, or the math mass until a safety blows

(02:11:10):
on a boiler. You know, like all of these things
get real interesting, real quick. And that's simpler than peopling.
It's it's really interesting stuff. And I think you're right, Caleb,
Like it's the nuance, it's the context, it's all of
these things. And probably the way to get there is
to advocate for more skill, because more skill at least

(02:11:34):
provides you options. And I think unfortunately it's used as
like a catch all for a lot of people going
this is all I want or need, and that's a fallacy.
That's what I think one needs to be careful of.

Speaker 8 (02:11:47):
It's I had, I've had, sorry, I've had one lethal
fourth encounter in my life.

Speaker 3 (02:11:53):
Right, gas station robbery. I was not the robbery. If
you look at the base, it's really written for you,
if you.

Speaker 8 (02:12:01):
Look at the basic things that somebody might want a
catalog from that incident. It basically occurred within that three
yard zone. I probably had, I mean, I had time dilation,
but I would I would be one to say that,
like the crux of it occurred in two to three
seconds and one round was fired, and so it sounded like, yeah,

(02:12:24):
so you had the typical, the average, the thing that
every talks about. But what you're missing in that And
this is what changed my mindset about what I needed
to be working on I was not carrying my normal
carry piece. I was not carrying my Okay, it's just stupid.
At the time, a glock twenty. I was a dummy,
right like his overkill because ten milimeters best milimeter. He

(02:12:47):
was not caring that because I was just running my
buddy's house to borrow a shadow like a carpet shampoo machine.
And then I I was like, oh, I'm running of
gas and I want to stop on the way to
work tomorrow. I'm gonna stop at this gas station to
get gas. Oh, they don't have pay at the point.
Because I'm kind of out in the country a little bit,
I have to go inside. I go inside and a
dude walks in with a gun in my Like, I'm
in there three seconds. I haven't even paid. Guy runs

(02:13:10):
into place with a gun up in my face. So
how many of those scenarios in their head do they start?
Like people are all awareness, how many scenarios are they
starting where the gun is in your face. That's the
first indication that something's going wrong. Second thing is as
I kind of step away from this guy, step away
from the counter. Three individuals behind the counter that work

(02:13:34):
there are crowding they're my backstop to this guy, okay,
And I'm carrying a jayframe in my pocket instead of
my normal glock twenty okay, because I was just going
to my buddy's house ten minutes down the road, right,
And you know what, I didn't practice with very much
frame because it's twice as well you can compare to

(02:13:55):
ten millimeters more expensive shoot at weigh eleven analysis and
it was a pan in. Now you know, I wasn't
that great with it, right, So who wants to spend
a lot of time doing that? I can tell you
in that moment where I'm going, I have to shoot
this guy because he was erratic, I don't know what
he was gonna do. At the moment, I'm staring at
a three yard shot with three innocent people abreasted the

(02:14:19):
like one like completely the backstop going, I have a
hy recooling gun with a bad trigger that I don't
have any like, I'm really questioning whether I can actually
make that shot, right. I think I can probably make
that shot, or more than one, because the most department

(02:14:40):
went to take more than one. And I know he's
gonna move. This is all happening in a split.

Speaker 3 (02:14:44):
Second, and that uh that that's that self doubt man.
That sucked.

Speaker 8 (02:14:51):
Now, some other stuff happened. There was another individual there
who was also armed. A drunk redneck used a half
empty plastic up see bottle to kick things off.

Speaker 1 (02:15:01):
It was really wild.

Speaker 8 (02:15:05):
Yeah, if you guys don't have the whole story, it's
too long to tell in this format. But it's really
kind of funny. So like over beers or something that's
it's it's wild. But I didn't fire shot the Robert
and fire shot another dude fire shot.

Speaker 2 (02:15:17):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (02:15:17):
That individual could not believe he missed after it was
all said and done, firing on a guy who didn't
know he was even being aimed at from again probably
about three yards, and he missed and that round went
out the door right across the busy road.

Speaker 3 (02:15:32):
You know, out into space.

Speaker 8 (02:15:34):
I mean it was yeah, And then I got to
stand around in a gas station parking lot for four
and a half hours.

Speaker 3 (02:15:40):
So you know, it's all good.

Speaker 1 (02:15:42):
Hey guys, if you're gonna stand around in the gas
station parky plot, yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:15:55):
With the greatest of consequences.

Speaker 8 (02:15:58):
But but if you look at like if somebody was
to put my incident in a spreadsheet, it falls within
that that thing that everybody likes to quote. But the
reality of what I was facing was way outside of
what most people are envisioning in their heads, even though
I fell within that normal thing, right.

Speaker 6 (02:16:21):
I used to back in the old days. You know,
they have the different leaser simulators, and we had a
Prism simulator at my gun store. I mean, guys remember Prism.
But it was the one where it would put the
scene up on the on the wall, and I was
there on a computer and I could have like little
branching paths where I could make the bad guys do

(02:16:43):
different things based upon what the student did, Like if
they gave a good verbal challenge, I could have the
bad guy surrender or whatever, you know, so I or
I could just you know, mess with them and do
the four or five different paths through most of these scenarios.
One of the things I saw for a lot of
people was and I wrote an article in a gun

(02:17:04):
magazine many many, many years ago about this called my gunfight.
Where everybody in their head would have like their gunfight,
like like they decided to start carrying a gun, so
they had like a picture of you know, three three
three more scenario, and that was there going to be
their gunfight, and I found a lot of people did

(02:17:27):
have like honestly his imagination where I would set it
on a path away from what they expected and they
would just lose their crap because it was outside of
like so here was like the window that they had
built of reality, and then this thing over here would
happen outside of the window, and it was just they
would go into like processing mode and die, you know.

(02:17:51):
So it wasn't like a hesitation. We talked about this
earlier with me and Chris and Caleb and Riley were
talking a little about this earlier about that it wasn't
like a moral courage failing. It was a processing failing,
like they just couldn't. It was like like like the
redneck with the bottle. It was a it's an unexpected
thing that would come into it and you just helways

(02:18:14):
seize people's short circuit. Craig Douglass is really super good
at this. I'm assuming most of you guys have probably
done like E C QC. And Craig is like the
master of yeah, I'm screwing with you, Like he'll see
what you're good at and then he will come up
with something outside of that and hit you with it.
I got killed in one of my evos because I

(02:18:37):
started out being a thing that I was pretty good
at and pretty confident that only Craig had like told
the second role player to do a thing that he
knew was going to like screw with me and I
and I died horribly. Yeah, I think a lot of
us have probably died at Craig's hand.

Speaker 4 (02:18:55):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:18:56):
I have died at the hands of Craig, well not
his hands, but some other students' hands, as a murdered
the guy like an unjustified murder. But that's the story
for another time. In a place.

Speaker 6 (02:19:11):
Oh, I did one where he had me. I did
a lot of role play back in the I'm a
professional dungeon master too as far as role playing games, right,
So I'm a good role player and a big scary dude.
And I got to play bad guy a lot long
time ago. And up we did one of the evos
where Craig had me as one of the oppositional role players,

(02:19:32):
and Craig a lot of people have been recording their evos, right,
Craig gave me an assignment as the role player that
I specifically asked everybody in the class is like, you
cannot record this because if we get on video of
Larry Korea playing basically Lenny from Mice and Men as

(02:19:54):
being an extremely upset, handicapped man who is going on
a violent thing, and I'm and I'm and I'm attacking
my caregiver and this innocent bystander and I was playing
it up. But I was like, you guys, cannot put
that on the internet, or my career as a writer
is over.

Speaker 1 (02:20:17):
I committed.

Speaker 6 (02:20:17):
So I committed and again, and I props to the guy.
He didn't shoot me, but I would have shot me.

Speaker 4 (02:20:26):
So are you are you saying that you're a method
actor and you just never left that role?

Speaker 1 (02:20:32):
I mean I was.

Speaker 6 (02:20:34):
Full of tent and the bunny man I was. I
needed to get taken and he needed to like take
me out. I was a danger to the I was
a danger to the public right there.

Speaker 1 (02:20:44):
So the boys, I have to drive my human child
to school tomorrow at an hour that is unpleasant to
look at as seeing as I am on the East
coast and all you go, any of you or West
coast time. But anyway, so Matti, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:21:05):
This is where can you and what plugs you find?

Speaker 11 (02:21:10):
Me.

Speaker 2 (02:21:11):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:21:12):
Go on Instagram search for radic Caleb, which is a portmanteau.
That's a that's a really big five dollars word. Uh.
It's a portmanteau of radical and Caleb, which is my
name and a thing that I am. So you can
find that on Find me on Instagram with radic Caleb.

Speaker 10 (02:21:32):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:21:32):
Go on Facebook search for Caleb Shooting. You'll find two profiles.
One of them you can like. One of them. You
can send me a friend request like that one. Don't
send me a friend request. And uh, go on YouTube
and search for mister Revolver because I am as a Revolver.
And then the brands that I represent. I am the
general manager of marketing for Towards USA, and I just

(02:21:54):
want to like, I haven't said anything out of pocket
on this show, but on this show I have not
been official brand representative of course USA, So like chill,
but also we make some fucking cool guns and you
should buy one. And also if you are you want
to get a Revolver and you're like, I'm stressed about revolvers,

(02:22:16):
I know a guy, send me a DM but that's it.
Question the Internet. You guys are great. I have to
shout out Matt your chat because I have been watching
the comments in the chat. Ten out of ten phenomenal.
These people are great. I've been trying to figure out
how to talk to them other than saying words out

(02:22:39):
of my face that they will respond to. But ten
out of ten, you guys are great.

Speaker 2 (02:22:44):
I'm the next time. I'm sure you how to chat
to him. But I think Brian has a question for you.

Speaker 8 (02:22:48):
Yes, why are t X twenty two toros on allocation? Man,
I'm trying to get.

Speaker 1 (02:22:52):
One because okay, here parties, so that why you see?
So what happened was guy figured out how to put
a thing in our gun that made it do with
things that are very similar to a machine gun, but

(02:23:15):
technically not a machine gun. Right, so not a machine gun,
but when you can put a part in your gun
that makes it shoot at nineteen hundred rounds per mint
it which is an absurd rpm. Uh, people buy those.

Speaker 2 (02:23:37):
So currently, what are the drum bags coming up for it?
That's what I wanted to listen.

Speaker 1 (02:23:42):
We're not making drumags. We are back ordered six months
on X twenty twos right now, okay, serious months? Yes,
we can only make ten thousand of those a month,
which is a really big number.

Speaker 6 (02:23:56):
It's a really big number.

Speaker 1 (02:23:58):
Okay, saw a.

Speaker 6 (02:24:00):
Video of this certain part that makes things go fast, and.

Speaker 1 (02:24:07):
So here's what I'm going to say, not as a
tourist brand. If you want to get one of those things,
you have to have two TX twenty twos, because that
thing makes whatever TX twenty two you put it in
impossible to shoot as a regular semi automatic gun. All right,

(02:24:29):
Like you can still shoot in SAMATAI. It's gonna jam,
it don't run right, it's not great. So you need two. Okay,
So buy two t X twenty two's and back order
me to eight months. All right, Just get one for
training your friends and family and all of that, and
then get another one to mag them into trash with. Okay,

(02:24:50):
I just look, I can't. It's it's it's it's it's
the crazy ship I've ever seen. It's amazing. I love
the Internet. Also, please don't make the a t F
come to my office. So can you guys cal the
fuck down.

Speaker 2 (02:25:10):
For like, okay, we're not.

Speaker 1 (02:25:15):
No, we're not saying dumpster defense because that was a
legal case.

Speaker 7 (02:25:27):
We started this conversation with what was going to do
to Larry's dog and this is where the conversation.

Speaker 1 (02:25:34):
So anyway, the at.

Speaker 15 (02:25:39):
My dog is such a sweet boy. He's a great
Dane pitbull mix. He just and oh and he got
great Dane personality. So all he just wants to do
is be everyone's best friend. Anyways, guys, But on the
real if you want to follow me Radic Caleb on Instagram,
Caleb Shooting on Facebook, if you want to follow trus

(02:26:02):
USA Ross USA Heritage Manufacturing, those are the search terms
to go for that.

Speaker 1 (02:26:07):
And like I've said this in an interview for a
TV show, but it is absolutely our company philosophy is
that everyone, regardless of their level of income, deserves to
own a reliable firearm for personal or home protection. That

(02:26:28):
is the shit that we live by. That's what we're
trying to do every day with the guns that we make,
whether it's a TOURUS eight fifty six or a GX two.
We want you the consumer to be able to be
like I have two hundred fifty dollars in my pocket.
I need a gun to be able to go out
and get a gun that's gonna work. And that's the

(02:26:50):
I live by. That Our CEO, Brett lives by that
like that that' shit's real and you can clown us
all you want for me and Taurus or whatever, but
like and guns, we're tourists today, is not Torus in
twenty fifteen, and I cannot, I legally cannot comment on

(02:27:12):
any of that shit, guys. And if you say, like
a gun manufacturer whose name rhymes with dig, I definitely
can't comment on that because it's really awkward. But anyway,
we are making guns for the fucking people. If you
need a fucking gun, you go to Tours USA.

Speaker 6 (02:27:34):
All right, I gotta go.

Speaker 1 (02:27:35):
I really do have to go because it is after
eleven o'clock on the East Coast. I have a human
child who's going to be up at six am. Love
you guys, good night.

Speaker 2 (02:27:46):
Later. So with Caleb taking off, I guess I have
another topic that we can do along the same lines,
but something that consider a lot of times I find
myself with my own standard, my own perspectives, my own insights,
experience whatever at this level trying to convey that, and

(02:28:07):
you just can't compile twenty thirty years of experience into
a Facebook post. What have been the easiest what have
been the best ways for you guys, to explain something
to someone that just their mind is set they're going
in this direction. Obviously, ridicule isn't the best option. Blocking

(02:28:29):
though also is not the best option. And for me also,
it's important to realize I am seeing things from a
completely different perspective. I need to change I might need
to change my presentation altogether and go to their level
and explain things.

Speaker 11 (02:28:43):
Well, you've got to understand who they are, why they're
at that position, and then so on. One of the
things I've been wanting to mention for a little bit
is I think this goes back probably like an hour
and a half now, and you know, kind of touch
a lot of what you said, Brian.

Speaker 1 (02:28:57):
You know, things that might get tiring.

Speaker 11 (02:29:00):
We're posting for the other people that are going to
see it, or we're posting for people who are going
to see it for the very first time. The you know,
the post that somebody has made ten thousand times, that's
been on nineteen different forums over the past thirty years.
Still that's the first post for somebody to see it.
That's the first entry. But you don't know who that

(02:29:20):
person is. And you know, we got to give people
a lot of good faith, you still have to understand
how they ride their decision. You could have and this
is there's I got a bunch of guitarist and stuff
in the background and whatnot. There's that is a very
far more opinionated thing than you know, guns and stuff are.

(02:29:42):
But you have doctors, neuroscientists, brain surgeons, what astronauts, whatever,
highly intelligent, highly successful people that still wind up being
you know, sixteen year old person with zero understanding and
they have taken their life skills, they've done underbatter basket

(02:30:04):
leaving on the moon or some shit like that. So
surely whenever they go and do their ten minutes of
research on Google, whatever, this decision they arrive on, that's
not Yeah, that's not their idiot neighbor kid who who
arrived at that? That's them. So you net, there's sometimes
I don't know, there's some that you can't necessarily respond to,

(02:30:27):
but you have to.

Speaker 1 (02:30:28):
You have to meet them where they're at.

Speaker 2 (02:30:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:30:30):
So one of my one of my favorite things to
do is address the people who.

Speaker 5 (02:30:39):
Seem to be of the belief.

Speaker 4 (02:30:41):
And there's a bunch of these recently seemed to be
of the belief that you know, a gunfight or two
that they were in in Afghanistan or Iraq has something
to do with defensive pistol skills in the United States, and.

Speaker 5 (02:31:01):
Those two things just aren't related at all.

Speaker 2 (02:31:05):
You know.

Speaker 4 (02:31:05):
Another subset of these folks is the you know, my
dad was a cop for thirty years and he taught
me how to shoot, and blah blah blah blah blah,
this said.

Speaker 5 (02:31:15):
You know, you know he said this, and this is
completely wrong whatever.

Speaker 3 (02:31:20):
This is.

Speaker 4 (02:31:24):
One of the things that I do rely on is
the fact that I was indeed in infantry, marine and
I have been a law enforcement officer for over two decades,
and I can address these two very specific things that
are the purveyors of really shitty information. And like I

(02:31:47):
said a little while ago, this the information that these
people got from what they believe to be a credible source,
not only has that that that built up credibility in
their mind, but it also has primacy of being the
first information from a credible source, credible in quotations there

(02:32:12):
that they got. It's very difficult to unravel that if
you can't mirror the experience of the person that that
came from and just be like, look, I lived in
those two worlds that you're referring to, and that information

(02:32:34):
is entirely either incorrect or misconstrued or misapplied in this
particular context. It's I feel like it's one of the
places that I can do a lot of good is
addressing those folks who you know, whose uncle was a
ranger or a Green Beret or whatever. And he said this,

(02:32:58):
those mission sets are entirely different things, and we really
don't I don't quite understand why it is that the
uh what do we refer.

Speaker 5 (02:33:11):
To them as the gun normies.

Speaker 4 (02:33:15):
I don't understand why that tends to be a a
primary source of information for a lot of these folks
and why they believe it so heavily because I've had.

Speaker 5 (02:33:29):
The experiences that I've had. But it is. It is
a fact. And you know, unless you.

Speaker 4 (02:33:38):
With those kind of people, somebody like Chris is probably
not going to reach them because as correct as Chris is,
they have this viewpoint that it's very difficult to break
through if you didn't come from a very similar world.

Speaker 16 (02:34:02):
So the primacy thing, excuse me, h, I think we're
gonna need to call an ambulance for Tom.

Speaker 11 (02:34:14):
I'll get I'll I'll get more beer and I'll be right.
So that is that is very powerful. And I did
a little bit of looking into it from friend of
mine's part owner of a guitar string company, and they're
it's so commercial retail. They were predominantly direct to consumer,

(02:34:37):
but they had to take hits to get in music
stores because music stores, for lessons, is where people buy strings.
And there's a bunch of you know, uh nam an
A M M is like the N S S F
for yeah, for our our world they do. They do
a lot of the same things. There's a lot actually

(02:34:57):
a lot of parallels, and then in that side of things,
a lot of cottage, a lot of small companies and
so on. But you know, like something like over eighty
percent of people they continue to buy the first thing,
you know, the first pack of strings.

Speaker 1 (02:35:12):
They were bought.

Speaker 11 (02:35:13):
So that's why, you know, the on ramp for for
so many things is so important.

Speaker 6 (02:35:22):
That's a side. Sorry, but when you said, nam My
very first corporate job as a as an auditor was
for Harmon International, working at Digitic making guitar pedals. Nice
but he said, now, I was like, oh, yeah, I
know that. Sorry, man, Just to a side there that
had a flashback.

Speaker 11 (02:35:41):
No, but that, but that's also a lot of those
you know where in you know the space that we're
concerned with, you know, skill acquisition and you know, continual
practice and so on, the on ramp from going from
you know, going from untrained. No matter how how long
you been shooting. You know, if you've been shooting for

(02:36:02):
twenty years on train, it's actually even worse. You've been
shooting for twenty thirty years untrained.

Speaker 1 (02:36:07):
You take your.

Speaker 11 (02:36:07):
First half a day class and you know, you get
everything unfucked in the first couple of hours. Yeah, you're
on rampant like this is this guy, this Rando is
fucking God. Everything he says is right because the substantial
changes you make.

Speaker 2 (02:36:27):
Riley, it almost looked like you were going to say something.

Speaker 10 (02:36:32):
Oh I was, I was a few minutes ago, but
I forgot I think what exactly I was going to say.
Going back just a little bit though to what Tom
said in his initial response, so that I completely agree with,
and that is meeting people with where they're at in
my interactions. One of the things I try to do.
I'm not going to say I'm always successful with this. Well,

(02:36:55):
when somebody shares an opinion that is, you know, maybe
not I not a good one, or that I disagree
with even you know, because certainly I could be the
one that's in wrong, you know. But if we're just
having a discussion, what I have had good success with
is and it may sound cliche, but it's an honest

(02:37:17):
to goodness truth that a lot of the communication skills
that you know, business books and different things teach communication
books and whatnot, it's true where you know, you want
to be a good listener and you want to seek
to understand people in their position, and that almost always

(02:37:39):
works best from the get go. You know, it's challenging
sometimes online interactions for a variety of reasons. One, the
brevity of an online interaction doesn't always reinforce us very well. Also,
sometimes we're just tired from engaging with a bunch of
other folks that aren't good faith actors, and that gets

(02:38:00):
it kind of wears us down a little bit, and
we might just you know, our initial response to somebody
might be pretty you know, cutting, you know, like kind
of negative at times. But I have found that from
the get go, if we can engage somebody ourselves, you know,
as good faith actors and sort of you know, don't

(02:38:23):
jump to conclusions, don't make assumptions about their position, but say,
you know, hey, okay, it sounds like you're saying this.
Can you tell me more about that, or can you
tell me why you feel that way? Or stating exactly.
I mean, just acknowledging you know that you hear them
what they're saying, or at least that you're trying to

(02:38:43):
understand what they're saying. That That works pretty well for me.
And that's the thing I try to do. And like,
I had an interaction yesterday, I think it was yesterday,
and I was pleasantly surprised with how it turned out
because it went completely reasonably and ideas were exchanged and

(02:39:06):
it was respectful. It could have very easily have just
you know, gone downhill from the get go, but that
was the approach. I know, to my own horn too much,
but I was I was happy with myself because I
was already kind of tired with some things that I
managed to take that approach and it worked out, you know, favorably.
And so it doesn't always work because it's only going

(02:39:28):
to work with people that actually have good intentions, But
that's the approach I try to take and I've had
good success with that and it's not easy, but I'm
going to keep keep on keeping on with that. So
that's my take on this particular topic.

Speaker 17 (02:39:48):
I kind of agree with Riley, but with a coveat so,
especially people that take the time and effort to become educated.

Speaker 3 (02:40:00):
Or learn it on a topic.

Speaker 7 (02:40:01):
Right, So, there is the natural human desire to dominate
and not influence. That's natural, that's what people want to do.
But I try and do kind of what Riley does too.
But I've also fallen in the pungji pit of saying
why do you think that? And that being interpreted as
a slight and that makes the conversation difficult at that

(02:40:25):
point because that's kind of where I want to start. Hey,
I don't necessarily disagree, but why do you think that?
And in the age we are now, no one wants
to expound on thought. It's just like, oh, no, you
just crapped on my front porch. Well no, I just
want to understand why you think what you think. And

(02:40:47):
I fall into that trap too, because now we go
from an exploration of ideas to now I want to
dominate you because I feel slighted because of that retort,
that's the hard thing that to do it, and that's
that's just true.

Speaker 5 (02:41:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (02:41:04):
That then that kind of goes to my point where
I said earlier that the nature of online communication, especially
in social media, uh, you know, it's it's a shorter
form of communication generally speaking, or we're not usually engaging
in Facebook comment sections, especially with you know, five hundred

(02:41:24):
and fifteen word articles like that's not the purpose of
that of that media.

Speaker 2 (02:41:29):
Okay, Larry, Larry does.

Speaker 6 (02:41:32):
That's why all the tld R people yell at me
all the time. But I'm a writer. I'm I'm a writer.
I write quick, That's what I do.

Speaker 10 (02:41:38):
So yeah, but you know, so so coming back at
somebody with why do you think that you may be
completely genuine and and you know, putting forth good at
good faith effort to say, hey, I'm curious tell me
more about that problem is is that is often interpreted
without tone and everything at play as why are you

(02:42:00):
questioning me?

Speaker 6 (02:42:01):
You know?

Speaker 10 (02:42:01):
And so I have found that taking a softer approach,
and it may sometimes and it's not always a comfortable
one for even me, but to sort of take a
hesitant approach in how you rephrase things and how you
come back at somebody and how you ask somebody a question,
it may give the sense that you are not confident

(02:42:22):
in yourself, but unfortunately it's kind of sometimes the approach
has to be taken so that they don't feel like
they are under attack. So yeah, like you know, like
tonight for instancetance. You know, we brought this up earlier
in the episode. This guy, you know, he commented, what
was his initial comment, I already forgot if you got

(02:42:42):
to run the claw grip. You're too fat for appendix carry.
You know, I want My natural inclination is to go
right back at them, you know, like full you know,
with the full court press. But you know, and it
would be really easy to just to say, hey, why

(02:43:03):
do you think that? But instead I you know, I
responded with, hey, could you please elaborate on how stuffing
your thumb between your six pack and your gun is faster?
And that was even a little bit not as soft
as I probably could have gone, but just using a
little bit more flowery language like could you please elaborate
on that? As opposed to why do you think that?
Doesn't it quite sound as attack driven?

Speaker 4 (02:43:26):
Yeah, but it's not, as it's not as bad as.
I mean, you can have that opinion, but you'd be wrong,
which is what I said.

Speaker 1 (02:43:33):
So I agree with you and then we both be wrong.

Speaker 10 (02:43:37):
Well that's where good cop good bad cop comes into
play here, Dan, Well.

Speaker 4 (02:43:44):
As as Caleb did a little bit ago, I got
a I got a goodbye on this one. I have
to get up, actually considerably earlier than Caleb does.

Speaker 5 (02:43:53):
Five am as.

Speaker 4 (02:43:54):
My alarm, So I've got a sleep ahead of me.

Speaker 2 (02:43:59):
So where can we find you? And what do you
want to plug?

Speaker 5 (02:44:05):
Yeah, I mean you can.

Speaker 4 (02:44:06):
You can find me at Apache Solutions social media, Facebook, Instagram,
et cetera, et cetera. If you want to email me
at Stan at Apache nc AS in North Carolina, Apache
enc dot com. You can find me on the Facebook
group Deliberate Training V two Facebook page. I'm pretty pretty

(02:44:28):
heavily heavily prevalent there.

Speaker 5 (02:44:34):
I was coming into the holidays.

Speaker 4 (02:44:35):
I'm kind of off the training season, working on a
little collab with with Riley and his crew early in
the year next year, hopefully that comes to comes to
fruition and yeah, other than that, I'll see folks at
Girl on a Gun and tac Con.

Speaker 5 (02:44:56):
Early in the spring.

Speaker 2 (02:44:59):
Good deal well, thanks for joining us.

Speaker 5 (02:45:01):
All right, gentlemen, see it.

Speaker 2 (02:45:06):
And what we just discussed. Also, there is a weird
dynamic on social media like Facebook versus our old school forums.
I was talking to dot gk R I think it
was last week and and I've said this before on
on the podcast, and it's something along the lines of

(02:45:26):
on on a forum, we're crafting these these posts, we're
crafting and thinking about there's thoughtfulness in our replies social
media it's it's vomited and it's the post that's replies.

Speaker 11 (02:45:40):
Social media is disposable for it is are are aren't
viewed that way? Yeah, and now you know mchaelebs don't hear,
but le yo, we did a lot of the same things,
like an m for carbing dot net and pistol forum
or early on was a lot of and I think Chris,
I think you mentioned soocratic method. It does work, but

(02:46:02):
if you get somebody who is just upset it, it goes.

Speaker 1 (02:46:07):
So far the wrong way and they viewed as trolling.

Speaker 11 (02:46:10):
But all your your all your you're you've literally removed
every single bit of emotion and you're just asking almost
yes or no questions. And when you do it, now
you can still do it. You can do it better,
but you're you're still effectively driving them into you know,
in the cattle shoot or whatever. But on how to
on how to talk with people or how to respond

(02:46:33):
to it one of the things. And I have a
specific GVT setup for it, you know. I randomly about
a year year or two ago, was fed a bunch
of stuff on YouTube with Chris Voss, who if you're
not familiar with them, as the book Never Split the
Difference f a hostage negotiator, and I viewed a lot
of that stuff and it just kept feed a bunch
of people. There's a lot of stuff and just like

(02:46:55):
you know, doom scroll for a little bit, you know,
search up some of his stuff in doom schroll and
get some of.

Speaker 1 (02:47:01):
It in your feed.

Speaker 11 (02:47:02):
There is a lot of little nuance in how you
say things and where you place the negative aspect of it,
or if you start with a negative or start with
a positive and so on that you you know, the books,
that the book, and there's some other stuff. If you
I don't have a I don't have a good thing
to pull up to share. But if you start with
Never Split the Difference, or even just go on Chris

(02:47:23):
Voss on YouTube and pull up shorts. It will start
curating some stuff for you. There are probably four or
five good people I have saved and somebody subscribe to that.
You'll you'll get shorts that will give you enough to
be able to start to see positive responses. And if
you pair that with, you know, remembering that the question

(02:47:45):
you're seeing for the ten thousandth time is first for them,
give a little bit of grace or you know, maybe
you know, maybe they're not a complete fucking idiot and
they're just asking a complete fucking idiot question. Work with
them a little bit and then phrase it uh and
again back to technology. I use the paid chat GVT

(02:48:06):
because it's twenty bucks and it's it's got a lot
of cool stuff you can do with it. One of
the things that I did for a little bit until
I kind of got to hang the hang of it
is I effectively trained myself by training it instead of
the GVT, Like, use these references and ask the question
and I'm like, here's what I want to here's what
they're saying, here's what I want to say. Can you
phrase it in this way? And that has really helped

(02:48:30):
kind of just get things, you know, get things right,
and then just it's it's more thought, it's more effort.
But I can still you know, to have to get
two descripts. I can still do it on the can
at work and still uh crack is very.

Speaker 1 (02:48:48):
I mean all way eye is racist.

Speaker 11 (02:48:49):
But but it's it's still pretty. You can still you
can still do it on the tiny screen. You know,
it's still tiny screen stuff. And as you go it
it is one of those things where it's you can
educate yourself.

Speaker 1 (02:49:03):
I think it's easier and easier.

Speaker 2 (02:49:07):
Good stuff.

Speaker 10 (02:49:10):
That's a solid recommendation on the Never Split the Difference book.
I haven't actually read it all the way through. I
stumbled across it a borrowed copy. I kind of thumbed
through and perused a couple of chapters, and then I
added it to my wish list, and you bringing it
up again. I just moved it off wish list into uh, well,

(02:49:31):
I just bought it, so.

Speaker 1 (02:49:32):
I changed it. I did Audible. I have too much stuff, So.

Speaker 10 (02:49:37):
Now you say it, well, that's what I mean. I
all my reading audible.

Speaker 6 (02:49:41):
Yeah, the most audible. Audible paid for my house, So
I am not going to complain yet please please, thank you,
Audible dot com.

Speaker 3 (02:49:48):
Continue buying some.

Speaker 2 (02:49:51):
Well, and another really good book to have if you're
in those those gun oriented social media groups is the
the famous gunshot Wounds from Vincent Demayo. I think that's
how it's pronounced. But that's referenced a lot. But uh,
is this even available yet?

Speaker 10 (02:50:12):
Was this?

Speaker 2 (02:50:13):
I think this was one of the pre orders. Verry
he's frozen. Yeah, Larry's dead, but you know he's back kinda.

Speaker 7 (02:50:34):
No, he's not well now, it's not nearly as excellent
of a headshot.

Speaker 2 (02:50:39):
It looked like he was just really paying attention.

Speaker 1 (02:50:42):
Audible covered the house, that did not cover the internet.

Speaker 10 (02:50:44):
Yes, somebody made a comment about groc being racist, and well,
yeah me, Larry's on starlink and old Elon got word.
Although he wouldn't care.

Speaker 7 (02:50:59):
He got mad about like the the Audible product placement.

Speaker 6 (02:51:03):
There you go, there is I think I'm sorry, guys.
I everything went robot voice and then I I vanished
for a second there.

Speaker 2 (02:51:15):
And you're you're here. Yeah, so Brian took off.

Speaker 5 (02:51:20):
I'll come back.

Speaker 2 (02:51:21):
Yeah. I think we covered a lot of great info.
We're approaching three hours. That was a great uh intro
to what is this called brumble Live. Yeah, I've never
done it before. It worked. I could handle firearms without
getting spanked. That's a good thing.

Speaker 6 (02:51:42):
Yeah. Once I realized that was cool, It's like I
should have I should put more cool stuff behind me.

Speaker 2 (02:51:48):
Well, and we'll also see because I guess what killed
my YouTube channel was the fact that I mentioned web
links and had a actual link in descriptions like to author.
Though if you read there, if you read their rules,
it really doesn't say that, at least with my interpretations.

Speaker 6 (02:52:11):
Yeah, they're just looking for reasons to kick gutting people.

Speaker 2 (02:52:14):
Yeah, so that.

Speaker 11 (02:52:17):
So much other stuff on there though, there is where
we se that's where we see all the touris stuff.
Have you tried, Matt. I haven't had a chance to
keep up my own chats, have you?

Speaker 1 (02:52:25):
I know chance?

Speaker 2 (02:52:26):
You know we talked about that at the beginning.

Speaker 1 (02:52:29):
Oh, nothing about that? Okay, talk about that?

Speaker 4 (02:52:32):
No?

Speaker 11 (02:52:32):
Have you add a different resources to reach out to
YouTube and try to get anyway.

Speaker 2 (02:52:39):
Kind of short up? But I don't know if I'm
even interested. And it's a it was a lot of
work I have. I think I have about ninety nine
percent of all my stuff and what this is what
this is allowing is better quality. Yeah, the videos, some
of the video and some of the older videos, it
looks like it's recorded on a potato. But again we're

(02:53:00):
not why I don't have these posted for the video
of like this, It's for the conversation. It's for the
knowledge and the discussion to be able to present all
of this kind of stuff to a different audience or
a newer audience that wasn't around, that didn't get that
Plateau's discussion from twenty seventeen episode eighty seven, which is

(02:53:22):
now posted here. I think that might be kind of
worth all this effort. I've spoken to also a couple
different people that have some services, and I'm kind of
weighing options, but I don't know if I necessarily, especially
the way I was treated with YouTube, I don't know

(02:53:42):
if I want to go that way. It's something I
mentioned in one of my short videos, is that this
has never been about income because YouTube hardly paid anything
at all with everything I offered. Yeah, I didn't get
the views. I only had twenty five thousand subscribers. It's
it's more about having the info.

Speaker 11 (02:54:02):
Right, but still the that easy if you're even if
you're able to recover the account and never do anything
with it again, just to get the stuff back out.

Speaker 2 (02:54:11):
Have it there. Yeah, yeah, we will see. Based on
my understanding, is just mentioning a website. So that was
the funny thing. And also with the with the issues
I was running into with YouTube is I would get
this email saying, oh, you're in violation, We're going to
take down your website or your your video. But it's

(02:54:33):
not going to be. It's just so warning. You're not
getting a strike. And then they give me a timestamp
of this is when the violation occurred. There's nothing. I
go to that timestamp, I watch it and it's Ash
Has and Rick Libert Mystery talking about tripods, not talking
about anything, not demonstrating how to take apart guns or anything.
There's no violation. But yeah, thanks Ai, Thanks Grog.

Speaker 6 (02:54:58):
Oh no I want to cross again.

Speaker 2 (02:55:00):
Yeah, thanks Adam.

Speaker 6 (02:55:03):
Don't curse the overlords.

Speaker 1 (02:55:06):
Grock giveth and Grath taketh.

Speaker 6 (02:55:09):
Not Grog.

Speaker 5 (02:55:12):
Bullet.

Speaker 2 (02:55:12):
Yeah, now we're getting close to that that three hour mark.
I think. I think that was a wonderful discussion. Anytime
you guys want to discuss anything, if you have a topic,
I'm happy to throw one of these together, we can
get the right panel. This was such a fun group
of people.

Speaker 6 (02:55:28):
Yeah, I always feel I always feel like I always
feel like a dummy when I when I go with
you guys, because the panel is always like like on
gun topics, you know, there's there's always so like such
a high skill level and such a high knowledge level,
you know. So it's actually it's actually good though. Can
we talked about humility earlier, so it's good for me
to get fraud checked.

Speaker 2 (02:55:50):
Oh, Brian's back just in time. So I'm going to
say my absolute favorite thing I love to say at
the I sometimes say at the beginning, but I definitely
say it at the end of the episode, and that
is make sure that you, the listener of the viewer,
make sure you're supporting those sources that you found to
be beneficial. It doesn't have to be primary, secondary, it

(02:56:11):
doesn't have to be gun related. Basically, if there's some
form of social media, some kind of video media, audio, YouTube,
you name it. If it's helping you out in some way,
make sure you're given likes, make sure you're subscribed, make
sure you're sharing, especially share if it's providing something that's
helping you understand something better. That's primary. That's primarily what
I established. Primary and secondary to do is to help

(02:56:33):
film the blanks, help explain things, help people understand concepts better.
That's what it's about. We're going on three hours. Giving
a like giving a share, giving a subscription is definitely appreciated.
But with that in mind, so with supporting those sources,
these guys are now going to give their their closing
remarks and their final plugs. Pay attention to where you

(02:56:55):
can find them. If you like what they had to say,
go find them. So with that mind, final thoughts and plugs.

Speaker 11 (02:57:01):
You're first, I don't have to say now, Yeah, I
covered kind of a lot of different things.

Speaker 1 (02:57:10):
I'm not really sure what to close out with.

Speaker 11 (02:57:14):
Yeah, if I didn't pissy off enough and you're looking
for a whole start check out Dark Star Gear that
we've been around for a long time, looking to remain
to be around. Uh had some some minor quirks and
trying to get some some products out that took longer
and I wanted to.

Speaker 1 (02:57:30):
But I have a tailor you.

Speaker 11 (02:57:33):
Know, Fuse plus till are seven finally coming out and
then the rest of the tailor seven stuff should be
coming very soon after. So that's a you know, looking
at you know, on from our standpoint, meeting people where
they're at.

Speaker 1 (02:57:46):
Uh, you can't scroll on Instagram.

Speaker 11 (02:57:48):
Yeah, it takes like twenty five thirty posts to see
a gun without a tailor seven on it.

Speaker 18 (02:57:52):
So nothing else. Uh, be kind. Yeah, I've been thoughtful
and patient.

Speaker 11 (02:58:06):
Just just think about think about who you're talking to
and where they're at. Just take thirty seconds before you
say it, type out, let it sit there, read it
then and say it.

Speaker 6 (02:58:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (02:58:20):
Most of the time that will say save your problem.

Speaker 2 (02:58:24):
Well, and with that mind, I don't know how many
times I've I've made a post and delete it and
then I type it out. Now I'm not gonna say nope, nope, no, no,
and then just walk away and then come back and no,
And it's maybe it's best I didn't say anything, especially
some of the methods I use and a little kind
of direct you.

Speaker 1 (02:58:44):
Know, and then and sometimes not saying anything, it's just fine.

Speaker 2 (02:58:47):
Yeah, Brian who took off and nose back?

Speaker 6 (02:58:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (02:58:53):
The uh I thought the wife he used a computer
for a minute, shit to submit something for her master's
program that she's working on.

Speaker 5 (02:58:59):
So we've got one.

Speaker 8 (02:59:01):
Yeah, I got a work laptop, but I can't use
the I can't use the webcam on it for anything
except government government stuff. So yeah, you can find me
at the Filster Consumer Workshop if you need any assistance
with learning how to conceal carry, learning how to make
your holster work better, figuring something out regarding concealed carry

(02:59:23):
or concealments, or how to make it more comfortable, or
how to do something that you've seen somebody do but
you don't know how they did it. You don't even
have to be using Filster gear will coach you. So,
but buying our gear does support that because they do
pay me for it, and they they pay Dakota and

(02:59:43):
she's pretty awesome too. So come check us out there,
pay your taxes because that's actually what pays my bills.
And if your congressman's curious about what she wants the
money to be spent on, tell them the YouTube needs
an infusion of cash. So because we want to, we
want to keep it above seventy thousand feet for another
many more years.

Speaker 2 (03:00:02):
Well didn't they give out their their last album for
free to all items.

Speaker 3 (03:00:08):
You? So yeah, yeah, but uh no one wanted that.

Speaker 8 (03:00:17):
Yeah, And in terms of in terms of like closing
thoughts that say, like, you know, don't be a dick
to be a dick, like you don't want to be
rude to people just to be rude, because people are
going to see that, like you can be entertaining, you
can be a little snarky. Your audience is everybody is
reading along. That's not even giving your likes or clicks.
And that's really I think where where people look for,

(03:00:39):
you know, support your position, and reasonable people looking for
answers are going to recognize the difference between a guy
who's you know, blowhard just repeating mantras and a guy
that can actually explain his position and and and go
into some more depth. And I'm and I'm not. I'm
not any kind of a smee on anything. Everybody else
in this panel as much more of that than me.

(03:01:02):
So but you know, I can I can call out,
like you know, objectively bad information and go hey, this really,
that's not how that works. This is not how you progress,
that's not how you get better. There's other better ways
to do it. It's not what it's not what people
that people in the know, people that are at the
forefront of this field are teaching right now. So that's

(03:01:25):
what I got.

Speaker 2 (03:01:25):
Stuff, Good stuff, Riley.

Speaker 10 (03:01:30):
As far as final words, I would say that for
you know, all of you participating in this panel tonight,
and probably if you were watching or listening to this,
you're probably like minded as well. Already, we all I
think have a pretty reasonable approach or approach. We all

(03:01:56):
I think have an understanding of how we should carry
ourselves and conduct ourselves out in public, meaning that, hey,
if I'm faced with a situation with a difficult person
in the public, my job is to get home safely,
to get home in one piece, and that means a
lot of times being a peacemaker meaning walking away from crap,

(03:02:20):
not getting not engaging and stuff, letting the guy trying
to road rage with me on the road just do
his thing and carry on and backing off. All those
things that are like prudent, reasonable, proper ways of handling
situations to keep us out of crap we don't want
to be involved with, is probably also a good attitude

(03:02:43):
to carry over into the online interaction space, and so
i'd probably be my final words is just yeah, keep
that in mind and try to be a good representative
of yourself. First and foremost. Also any companies that you're
represent or associated with. Yeah, because I mean got stuff.

(03:03:05):
You know, as we've already talked before, it's on the
internet now, and it's it's going to be out there
probably forever at this point, and so uh yeah, conductor
yourselves in a reasonable prudent manner. And I think that's
a good approach for life. That doesn't mean there is
enough time and a place to uh you know, go
scorched earth on things. And you know, but uh.

Speaker 6 (03:03:29):
When the peace making parts over just tagged me, oh right.

Speaker 10 (03:03:34):
Right, you know. I also you know, I also realized
that I I try to take a much softer approach online.
I've definitely had my moments though, and I've learned some
lessons the hard way, meaning you know, driving some some
folks away from me that I considered to be friends
and trusted advisors or even mentors. And so uh anyway, Uh,

(03:04:00):
as far as myself, guys, you can go always go
to Concealed Carry dot com. It's where you'll find my
main website for the business. Uh some of our brands,
our brands like Barrel Block, uh ksg Army Holsters, Yes,
competitor to Tom but and I freaking look up to Tom
and also competitor Fhilster and appreciate their leadership in that space.

(03:04:23):
And we're just trying to play along nicely and make
some quality stuff as best we can as well. Also, Uh,
what am I missing? That's the problem. I got to me,
what's that medical?

Speaker 2 (03:04:36):
Medical?

Speaker 10 (03:04:37):
Oh, Mountain Medical. Yeah, that's an important one. You know,
want to have good some some good medical kit. And
so that's the business side of things. Concealed Carry podcasts.
You can always catch us just about every week we
release an episode. There's there's weeks we miss, but we
try to get something out of each week. And on
my personal side, on the training side, you can find
me at Rileybowman dot com. It's my website where I

(03:05:00):
post up my training stuff. Don't have anything currently for
twenty twenty six listed, but I'm working on that right now.
I'm a little behind the ball, but looking forward to
getting out there doing some classes in various markets in
twenty twenty six. In social media at Riley Concealed Carry
on Instagram and just search me Riley Bowman on Facebook

(03:05:21):
you'll probably find me. I may not accept friend requests.
You never know if you look like a decent person
and we're connected to the right people. I may accept it,
but I'm a little bit pick here and choose here,
and I used to be. But you are always welcome
to message me, and I do my best to get
back to folks. So there you go.

Speaker 2 (03:05:40):
And also, you can find most of the panel from
tonight's episode on posts on Concealed Carries Facebook posts.

Speaker 10 (03:05:49):
Yes, you can find us there.

Speaker 8 (03:05:55):
You know, because you know, I can't believe that Adam
Wench would dare to wear cargo pants to teach a
shooting class.

Speaker 2 (03:06:03):
What's with the tight black shirts and the and the
air pro and the ipro and the cargo gun.

Speaker 6 (03:06:09):
The yoga pants guy, you can't be making fun of
other people's dudes fashion if you're wearing ladies yoga pants
out in public.

Speaker 5 (03:06:18):
Sale.

Speaker 1 (03:06:19):
Did you see that?

Speaker 10 (03:06:21):
Did you see that one guy that dropped a comment
about uh he said something about Cooper, Jeff Cooper at
some point, and I was like, oh, you opened that
cam And I was like, I just went straight to
Google gun site instructor Cadre search images bam. And I'm like,
so you were talking about people dressing up as you know,

(03:06:43):
kind of tactical Timmy's or whatever that are instructors and
apparently you're a fan of Jeff Cooper and gun site.
Well there you go.

Speaker 6 (03:06:52):
Oh my goodness, people not cross the streams with fashion.
It just doesn't work.

Speaker 7 (03:07:00):
A T shirt and a pair of pants, like if
he was wearing a plate carrier.

Speaker 3 (03:07:03):
Okay, maybe literally was a shirt like normal cargo pants.

Speaker 8 (03:07:08):
They're like, it's too tactical. He wasn't even wearing a
battle bets like and inside the waistband holster one spare
mag and a regular like you know, nylon belt. They're like,
it's guy's too tactical. What's he doing teaching normal people?

Speaker 7 (03:07:21):
We should text that and just be like, you know,
they said your shirt was too tight, because that's kind
of a compliment.

Speaker 2 (03:07:30):
Well then, also Chuck Haggard and appendix, Well, most people
care appendix. This is about ankle carry.

Speaker 8 (03:07:36):
Dammit, he was carrying appendix in that video. They just
couldn't see it. Yeah, he had an appendix carried gun
on him in that video. When the guy goes, why
are you wearing an ankle carry? You should be carrying appendix,
He's literally wearing an appendix carry rig in that video.

Speaker 2 (03:07:53):
Job security for Riley.

Speaker 6 (03:07:58):
Just makes my eye twitch. I can't.

Speaker 8 (03:08:02):
Showing you ankle carry because he's teaching the class on
snub on snubbies and pocket guns and ankle carry and
all that kind of stuff. But he's literally wearing an
appendix carry pistol while he teaches that class concealed.

Speaker 2 (03:08:16):
So yeah, so I'm talking to people in the future
right now. If you're listening to this on the audio,
you don't see this. But I didn't know Chris's last
name was hyphenated. It's Chris being curator. I thought it
said being counter for a second. Final thoughts and plugs.

Speaker 4 (03:08:36):
So for me, I'm gonna get serious for a second
because I am passionate about this.

Speaker 7 (03:08:40):
But being passionate doesn't mean.

Speaker 5 (03:08:43):
You're being argumentative.

Speaker 7 (03:08:45):
Yeah, that's an important distinction. And I want people to
really understand that there are people out there that have
invested their entire lives and great expense to help you.
They're driven to do it. They want to do it
not because they're better than you, but because they care
about you, or at the very least, your well being.

(03:09:07):
I think if more people understood that let them help you.
Sometimes you have to be humble to do that, and
that goes for everybody that goes for the people that
have experience in the people that don't. So that's my
kind of closing thought to all this. If someone wants
to find me, I've got a pretty prolific twenty twenty

(03:09:28):
six coming up. You can find me at tacticaladv dot com.
You can also find me on Active Self Protection dot com.
I haven't mentioned that, but I teach with them under
their banner as well all over the country in twenty
twenty six. I think I have seventeen classes right now,
booked a couple on the pike just to get done.

(03:09:49):
If you want to find bios for me in other places,
if you think I faked it on my website, go
to Mentalmanagement dot com. There's tons of places you can
find me. I'm Chris for being on the Internet. There's
no more hiding under the corporate umbrella. I'm free and
if you want some free content with some of the
stuff I do, just go to ask Extra their YouTube channel.

(03:10:13):
I do a weekly video series focused on technical shooting.
They're doing a lot of dry fire and just some
things that I think about random using. So I'm around.
Find me if you want to.

Speaker 2 (03:10:27):
Tom, were you going to say something?

Speaker 1 (03:10:29):
I was going back.

Speaker 11 (03:10:31):
So one of the things I posted, one of the
one of the mod chats was you'll never insult somebody
into agreeing with you, And I'm going to say that.

Speaker 1 (03:10:40):
But then with the last.

Speaker 11 (03:10:42):
Line, we're going on with some of the people like
but sometimes they need it.

Speaker 6 (03:10:45):
Yeah, gentlemen, gentlemen, just real fast for my closing thought. Yes,
my wife. My wife just texted me, what the hell
kind of podcast is this? Everyone is talking about being nice?
Do they even know you?

Speaker 2 (03:11:02):
So she's watching too, So that's good.

Speaker 10 (03:11:07):
That is awesome.

Speaker 2 (03:11:11):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 7 (03:11:16):
I love you be my spokesperson either.

Speaker 6 (03:11:22):
I'm sorry that made me cry. Oh gosh, Okay, that
was my closing time right there. That's perfect. Sorry, Yeah,
I'm not Yeah, uh no, I'm Hilarry Korea. You can
find me anywhere on the internet. All my books are
on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and Audible and Audible. Thank
you Audible very much. And I'll expand the shooting range. Yeah,

(03:11:50):
I know, so that that's the best way to find me.
I'm on Facebook just under my name Larry Korea, and
my blog is monster hunter Nation dot com. I'm on Twitter,
where I get to be even meaner to be that
I am on Facebook.

Speaker 2 (03:12:04):
Yeah, and so what is the actual status?

Speaker 6 (03:12:08):
Uh, the graphic novel uh Sacrifice is currently shipping, so
people should everybody should be getting those and then the
novel will be out in May. I think, don't hold
me to that. I'm not the publisher, but I believe
it's made.

Speaker 2 (03:12:25):
And if you if you acted early, you also Okay,
that was cool because.

Speaker 6 (03:12:30):
You say there's actually a thing in the front that
you can see with UV light.

Speaker 2 (03:12:35):
Oh yeah, it appears every page has there's weird the
papers really cool.

Speaker 6 (03:12:41):
And then uh, because I see the book where there
is tracking a blood trail using UV light, that's where
that comes from.

Speaker 7 (03:12:49):
So excellent product placement opportunity.

Speaker 2 (03:12:53):
If if you have one of these, don't use it
in conjunction with an orange filter over your eyes and
go to a hotel room that you're staying in. You
will find things.

Speaker 9 (03:13:07):
Did them once when we first learned that, I was
with some DHS guys and they showed me that we
were staying at this hotel for shot show and we
called it the crack Horror Hotel because it was that
level of you know, like you go to the hotel
and you check the bathtub to make sure there's not
a dead hooker in it.

Speaker 6 (03:13:23):
But these two DHS guys were like, hey, Larry Scheck,
this out the worst thing ever.

Speaker 7 (03:13:38):
Meditated OCD. I do not need to find protein that
does not belong to me.

Speaker 6 (03:13:43):
Aware, I was like, they ruined it for me. That
was the worst thing ever.

Speaker 2 (03:13:49):
So what you do? You have some blue black light
and you have the orange filter and put it over
your eyes, and so you use the light and if
it's glowing something you don't want to touch. And if
it happens to absorb all the light, if it's black,
that might be blood.

Speaker 5 (03:14:09):
Hilariy.

Speaker 11 (03:14:10):
One of the things you need to do is you
need to you need to put QR codes in your stuff.
Just like maybe if you have like a draft or
something like that that they gets printed somehow, do u
v q R codes.

Speaker 3 (03:14:21):
That'd be cool, that would be pretty cool.

Speaker 6 (03:14:24):
That's a good idea.

Speaker 11 (03:14:26):
But like try to find a way to do a
couple as a joke.

Speaker 6 (03:14:31):
That's pretty cool idea. I like that. Well, yeah that
was my closing thought. Yeah, yeah, don't check out the
crack hotel's.

Speaker 2 (03:14:41):
Carpet or the bed the sheets, the phone, the TV,
the drape, the ceiling in the bathroom ceiling.

Speaker 10 (03:14:51):
Why, yeah, well my first shot show I spent the
week uh sleeping in my sleeping bag on top of uh.

Speaker 11 (03:15:08):
Yeah, so actually go to shameless plug I have nothing
to do with it.

Speaker 1 (03:15:14):
Go to hugsleep dot com and get one of those things.
Absolutely amazing.

Speaker 11 (03:15:17):
Yeah, they're unbelievable, and you're also, uh, it's at least
one layer between whatever else is out there?

Speaker 2 (03:15:28):
Can they go over your head?

Speaker 1 (03:15:29):
Yes? They have, they have over the hood.

Speaker 4 (03:15:31):
Now I.

Speaker 7 (03:15:34):
Missed it, but I'm gonna apologize to Riley ahead of time.
But Larry says the ceiling, and then Riley says, my
first shot in my brain shut off that.

Speaker 1 (03:15:44):
There it was.

Speaker 6 (03:15:47):
There was enough.

Speaker 11 (03:15:47):
I don't know if it was intentional, there was enough
of a pause that I Yeah, you're not the only
one that picked up on that.

Speaker 2 (03:15:56):
Amateurs for everyone that's new to this, but this is
not overly surprising.

Speaker 1 (03:16:07):
What's your blood pressure at check?

Speaker 5 (03:16:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:16:13):
Oh gosh, we're.

Speaker 6 (03:16:16):
Not getting kicked off of YouTube?

Speaker 2 (03:16:18):
Yes, so, big thank you to the panel, wonderful discussion.
Big thank you to the live viewers who it's awesome
to have the chat it's awesome to have that interaction.
That Also, a lot of times when we have the
left chat going and these are public as this one was,
the lef chat brings up something that really helps the discussion.

(03:16:42):
There might be a really cool bit of advice inside
or something where it might help push the discussion in
a direction we may not have thought of. So it's
very much appreciated. Also, big thank you to you, the
viewer or the listener. And that's for the future, because
this is going to be around for a while. Hopefully
this was helpful for you. I enjoyed the discussion. I

(03:17:04):
thought it was incredibly insightful, very nicely discussed. Big thanks
to the sponsors. Big thank you to Lucky Gunner, Filster
and Walter. Also big thank you to the Patreon subscribers.
If you want to help support the network, if you
go to Patreon dot com slash Primary and Secondary, you
can help support the network. There are different tiers, different prices.

(03:17:26):
It's a monthly subscription thing and there are benefits. If
you don't want to go to the Patreon route, I
do have a website Primary and Secondary dot com with
a forum Primary and Secondary dot Com slash forum. There
is a banner that says network support on network Support.
It's very similar to Patreon. Also benefits. Let's see here. Yeah,

(03:17:48):
it sucks that I don't have YouTube because I had
all that content. Yeah, I'm not done with YouTube, but
for right now, I'm trying to build here at Rumble.
It's been cool to go through all the old content.
It's been so cool to reread the titles and go, oh,
I forgot we discussed that I need to I need
to upload this immediately. And there are some old things

(03:18:09):
that we discussed from twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,
which is still incredibly pertinent today. And so again, don't
pay attention to what the video quality is, pay attention
to what the discussion quality is and the content, because man,
that's great stuff. And as per the norm, the panel
to include these guys the panel that have these discussions.

(03:18:33):
These are leaders, These are leaders in the fields that
they discuss. Sure, we have Larry and he has to
stay on the message. But yeah no, but he had
his own episode and that's also been that's been posted.
One of the benefits, and Boone brought this up. One
of the benefits also being a subscriber as access to
our discord. Our discord is truly awesome. It has some

(03:18:56):
wonderful people, and it's constantly moving, constantly going. It's probably
our most active social media thing because I do have
seven hundred and thirty six different Facebook groups. I do
have that forum and Instagram and all the other outlets
at that discord though, Man, the people in there are
fantastic and it is a just constantly moving, constant conversation,

(03:19:21):
constant good GOODO, good people, good network. So I think
that is pretty much it. I do have multiple episodes
I still need to get before the new year. I
also have a couple of Revolver centric ones to include
let's see you're reloading, have a forty five to seventy
episode coming up. I still need to do our yearly

(03:19:44):
airing of grievances. I also have Favorite Things episode. So
this appears to have worked. I was able to integrate
Brumble into the Streamyard stuff, so continue in this direction,
and it was a great discussion. Thanks again for joining us.

(03:20:05):
And the way this will work is I'll end the
stream and so rumble will stop. But if you're still
attached to us through stream Yard, which that's actually one
of the perks of on Network Support or on Patreon,
you have access to the stream yard discussions and what's

(03:20:25):
going on after the show ends and before it starts,
so we'll still be connected here, just for a couple
of minutes. But yeah, this was a successful try on Rumble,
so I'm gonna end the stream and talk to you
guys later

All Episodes

P&S ModCast 446 - Staying on Message

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

SmartLess

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}P&S ModCast 446 - Staying on Message