July 3, 2025 • 28 mins
We conclude our Of Whales And Woe coverage with this sendoff instrumental that airs a bit of mystery with its abrupt conclusion and sound samples/field recordings. We take a stab at what it might all mean, but perhaps it's just a bit of wordplay. Final thoughts on OWAW, and a preview of what's to come.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Josh Freaky with a couple of dump shits.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello Primates, you've found Primus Traction. Congratulations. You can find
us at Primus Tracks, on Instagram and threads. Primus Tracks
pod at gmail dot com is the email address, and
of course there's a Facebook page called you Guessed It
for Primus Tracks. I am Josh. I am one of
the hosts of Primus Tracks. He is one of the
(00:36):
other hosts of Primist Tracks. All the way from the
thirty nine flour of Primus Trecks Towers in Mexico City.
Franka Bearstye, Hey Josh, who boy, we are coming to
the end of Wales and woe Frankie, I'm beside myself.
We've had such a good time with this record, and
as all good things must do, this two concludes. We're
(01:02):
going to talk about Off White Guilt today. It is
an instrumental track that ends this record. But we have
some business on the front end.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
And once we are done with these records, we can
move on to your favorite one.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We're gonna move on to my favorite record, which is
the Aladdin soundtrack, possibly my favorite record of all time.
We will be moving on, of course, to the next
Les Claypool record in the chronology after some inter album
interviews and episodes. So hold on to your hats, folks,
(01:35):
and your mushrooms. We have miscellaneous debris. Frankie, take it away.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Little Lord Sentinel seven inch vinyl available on three different
variants unit all three. It's very important.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That's required, right, it is required? Okay, good to know.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
We have the white variant from bandcamp, plus an optional
tip for the band. You get a burgundy vinyl from
Clube Bastardo and you get gray with white skip marks
from Brooklyn Vegan and Revolver.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Frankie has already ordered all three.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
All three, and the B side is bloody fantastic. It's
Dutchess live with Hoffman on drums, superf audio quality, super performance.
What a great time to pick this song for a
B side.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Absolutely, I think thematically it's linked to Little Lord fentnyl
two degree and it seems to be the signature Hoffer
tune at this point. And yeah, great live recording from
the Sasanta tour, great mixing by Matt Weineger. The band
sounds fantastic on that live cut.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Fortune favors the B so that was a great move
by Hoffman picking that song when nobody.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Else Dith certainly energize Lesson Lure so good. Yes, please
go order all three variants of the Little Lord Fentanyl
seven inch, play them back to back to back and
see which one sounds the best.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And send a large tip. Send a large tip to
the band on band camp.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, let's talk about off White Guilt, the final track,
track twelve from of Wales and Woe, the two thousand
and six Less Claypool Megalomaniac album. As he calls it,
it is two minutes and twenty one seconds. The strangely
Frankie in the credits, we have Less Claypool base, vocals,
percussion hmm. Those are from the album sleeve credits.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Mike Dylan assorted samples.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, but vocals hmmm, I didn't hear any. Mike Dylan
on percussion in marimba, Skerrick on tenor sacks, baritone sacks
and horn arrangement, and Gabby Laala on sitar. I suppose
this marks a third track in which there's some kind
of discrepancy in the credits as to what is actually
(04:17):
happening on the track. What to take a look at
our re releases to see if those Uh so.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It was just a copy paste from the previous credits.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
All right, So this one, Frankie is an instrumental that
concludes the record. There are no lyrics to speak of pop.
I'm gonna guess it doesn't have too many live performances,
but what do you have on There.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Are no lyrics, But it's quite evocative, I would say.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Certainly is as many of his cuts tend to be.
Is there a live history on them? This one of
any sort.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
It was never performed live in any capacity or referenced
outside of the context of the record.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, no teases, no, nothing, not even a three second
reference to this anywhere in the live oove.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I don't think the song lends itself to any of that.
I mean, it's from an instrumental perspective. Yeah, it's quite lush.
It's got some really nice percussion and baritone saxophone. Curtesy,
I'm scary, but I can't imagine this translating to a
(05:40):
live setting.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
If you think that you have heard any reference on
a live show too off White Guilt, please hashtag off
White Guilt and at Frankie Benstein posted on in Instagram
so that he can hear it. We would love to
hear any reference to Off White Guilt.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Just having gone through those all those fancy shows the
previous year, I was listening attentively to them, and I
can't recall any anything that resembled this song remotely.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Okay, this one certainly as an end of album instrumental,
I linked this one. I may have mentioned this before.
I link this one to caution should be used from
the Sausage record because it is point album closing instrumental
that is a bit more free sounding, and certainly it
(06:42):
also contains samples. There's some ambient audience footage of a
sort at the end of this track that I can't place,
and who knows where it came from. Have you ever
heard any any kind of source on that fanky No,
But my.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Theory is that these were probably just taken from a
sound library.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Les Clipole loves his free sounds, so yes, probably from
the public domain.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
When I went back to try to find what I
had drawn for this track, I discovered my illustration of
a Native American. So that reminded me that since I
first heard the record, and I heard this song in particular,
(07:37):
for some reason, it put my mind in the context
of a casino. Now, I heard the noises and the
people laughing and talking, and my mind just went there.
And I think the association that I made is that
white guilty is a belief that white people bear a
(07:59):
responsibility for the harm which has resulted from historical or
current racist treatment of people belonging to other ethnic groups.
Such examples are slave trade, European colonialism, and the genocide
of indigenous peoples. So the story that I concocted in
my mind is that people might shake off white guilt
(08:21):
by gambling and casinos because they feel that they are
contributing to an indigenous business or a Native American business.
So that's where my mind took me when I heard
the track, to try to give it some semblance of meaning,
because otherwise it's just incredibly abstract of white guilt and
(08:44):
then a bunch of noises and people laughing. Yeah, it's
not something that you can wrap your head around.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
That's an interesting idea. I don't think that I even
thought of it as casino sounds. So let's go to
the last few Let's go to the last few seconds
of this track and see what we hear. Yeah, I
(09:30):
don't know that just sounds like an ambient recording. To me,
there's what sounds like a phone ringing staccato type buzzing sound,
as if a door is closing or the red light's
on for recording in a studio or something like that,
and then this ambient crowd noise. But I'm not sure, Frankie.
I'm not entirely certain what we're supposed to take from that,
(09:52):
and it may just be some some public domain noises
that we're just there.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
But don't you hear like the Native American call at
the beginning.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I do hear that voice, and I'm not entirely sure
what it is. And I don't think your inference is wrong.
It's just not something that I had put together. So
you are making those connections and they you know, they
kind of they kind of go together logically.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, I mean, it's not the official interpretation, but since
it's an instrumental, that's the great thing about it that
everyone can take away something different from it. So sure,
I don't know. Ever since I heard the record and
this song came on, that's the mental picture that it
generated in my mind.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, that's an interesting picture for sure, and it links
to his novel South of the Pumphouse from this same
era in which in part of the story he mentions
in the narration, he mentions the concept of white guilt.
And so this phrase must have been termin over in
(11:06):
his head while he was composing the novel, and must
have been in a notebook that sort of thing, and
then he gave it a turn of phrase for track title.
So and it's pretty clever off white guilt, pretty funny,
you know, it's one of those it's one of those
titles where you go, that's funny, and then and then
you can move on and you make a great point.
(11:28):
It's open to interpretation as to what the world's going
on with the with the sounds at the end, you know,
if you if you want to take it further, you
one could argue that the sounds that the band is
making mimic the sound of things like slot machines, all
(11:49):
kinds of casino machinery, because those places are cacophin is Frankie.
Every time I walk into a casino, it's over stimulating.
Sometimes it's overwhelming, depending the on the establishment I visit,
and they're they're they're that way purposefully.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Of course, let me give another listen to to that part,
and that's a nice melody right there with the saxophone.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Very percussive in that part too, uh. Scerrik provides a
bit of melody the rest of it very percussive. The
citar flourishes are particularly satisfying, you know, to extend your metaphor, Frank,
I just see a lot of coins tumbling into slots
at the casino if we're going to go in that direction.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
And it's not surprising that the Sex takes center stage
on this track and be kind of the lead instrument
because this was a tour where they were doing things
like a Shot in the Dark, one Step Beyond, and
they were totally saxophone driven. So I think that's something
(13:21):
that is a really cool highlight about this record that
the saxophone got a lot of spotlight throughout the tracks.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Scerrik is indispensable on this record, and without him it
certainly wouldn't have the life that it does. And on
those fancy tours he was front and center and taking
the spotlight quite a bit, and the fan base certainly
(13:52):
loved him and showed appreciation for him, and he kept
coming back for more on numerous tours in the yachts.
So yeah, hats off is sceric for certain, for just
bringing one energy.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
With thirty seconds, let's start queueing the band for a
build up.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Wow, that builds, and yeah, you could hear the base
changing register, so as people are laying down their parts,
they know what's happening where.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Lots of talking in the background at the end, but
of course it's impossible to make out what they are.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Saying, yes, unintelligible, so it's hard to tell if this
is just a whole bunch to people in a meeting
hall or a studio or what have you, just chatter
in a way ambient ambient noise. What a strange little
track to end this record on, Frankie, because you know
the rest of the rest of the album is so
structured and so put together so thoughtfully, even the opening
(15:21):
track all the way through and then off way Guilt.
We get that spirit of jamming, and of course that
is what defines the live shows and tours in this era,
was extending these tunes and finding new places to take them.
You know, seventeen minute versions of the Phantom Patriot, for example.
(15:45):
I hesitate to use the term throwaway track, but it's
there to end the record on a different note, but
I think it certainly does show the jammy spirit.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yes, and cautions should be used is self explanatory. I mean,
it paints a perfectly clear picture. But this track, I mean,
what an oddity, right, because it could have been titled anything,
but of White Guild is very specific. So there has
(16:17):
got to be a connection between the title and the
samples and the overall structure of the song. It's just
that it's either open to interpretation or it's really hard
to figure out.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, it's a bit vague. If it was titled I
can't find my can opener, it'd be pretty clear, right,
But this is much less clear than that. So certainly
by taking the title and what that implies with some
of the noise that we hear at the end, you
could certainly dry your own conclusions as well as the music.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Of course, it wouldn't be the first time, though, that
they reference this topic, because we have Wounded Knee on
Pork Soda.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Oh sure, yes, and we've discussed that one of course. Yes,
Ding Dang of course has some similar thematic elements. So yeah,
this is not something that he's approached for the first time,
and certainly you can read all about it in South
(17:21):
of the Pumphouse lessus novella that we will be discussing
at some point in the near future.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I believe now the title off with double if yeah,
is it making reference to this is a topic that
belongs to the concept of white guild or the title
is referencing that it's shaking off that feeling.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Oh, I just took it as the colors off white
is a pretty common term for a color that's not
pure white. I think it's just a play on words. Yeah,
more than you know, some kind of commentary of something
other than white guilt. That's that's where I go with it.
I think it's pretty lighthearted in that regard, So.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
It might not be as complex as we are trying
to make it seem.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Maybe not.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Maybe it's just a play onwards.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
It's just a pump, That's what I'm going with. Well,
we've talked about this track, Frankie and I think we've
hit a wall. So let's do this. Ah, that could
only mean one thing. It's time for Primates takes. If
you too would like your takes on the track up
for discussion, read right here on the podcast. All you
have to do is go to patreon dot com forward
(18:44):
slash Primus tracks. There are many tiers of sport over there.
There's a lot of fun stuff going on on the daily,
on the weekly, on the monthly. But this is one
of the universal benefits, which is Primates takes, and we
have quite a few. For off White Guilt Frankie that
people want to close of Whales and Woe with a bang.
(19:08):
Travis in Alaska, I won't tell you which one, says,
I usually restart this track a few times as the
first twelve bars or so are so juicy. I left
Less's tone on this one, and I'm a sucker for
instrumental tracks anyway. Other than Riddles. Wales is my favorite
non primus Claypool album. I wouldn't say I've reassessed. Oh.
(19:30):
I should also throw in here, Frankie that I threw
in a bonus question, which is have you reassessed anything
about this record? After we revisited the pod, Travis says,
I wouldn't say I've reassessed anything, but it's always great
to hear others geek out about things I've always known.
I was motivated to learn a few tracks, though specifically
(19:50):
one better after hearing Luke Kill It also Nothing Ventured
and the title track. For me, this album has many
of Less's most interesting baselines and our Heart as Hell
a definite evolution in his playing Thank You, Travis and Alaska.
Nick in the Netherlands says, usually a skip for me,
but I do love the sound of the rainbow Fretless
(20:12):
on this song, and it's a nice finish to an
amazing album. But I prefer listening to the prior tracks
and that's why I usually skip it. Didn't even think
about the fact that he's playing a frontless bass on
this one, Frankie.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Did, Yeah, didn't really cross my mind.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, because we were busy trying to decipher the hidden
meetings as opposed to listening closely to the instrumentation. Ah.
Let's continue our jaunt around the world by visiting Eric
in Australia, who says a classic Claypoolian oddity, maybe just
so he could use the clever title. As I've said,
(20:50):
I've always rolled along with the primus Claypool. I would
say purple, onion and whales stand out like beacons on
San Peblo Bay. Nice Eric Ryan Rashon says, could you
be scary? But this sounds more like a Tuatara song
than a Less song. I dig it, despite it feeling
like a snippet of a jam that I wish I
could hear more of. That's a great point that Ryan makes,
(21:10):
because this one you could certainly hear in the minute
and fifty odd seconds that we get that. There's a
lot of potential to flesh that out and do something more.
Now we know that Less always says there are no extras,
but maybe Frankie just maybe there's an extended version of
(21:31):
Off Way Guilt somewhere.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah, because it ends very abruptly.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Agreed, I think there's maybe a longer version that.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Was just cut out out. Yeah, it sounds like they
could have gone on for several minutes.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Hey, what if there's a thirteen minute version of this one?
Just like Los Postatos.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, some tracks do give you that perception that you're
not getting the full thing, but you're just being allowed
a peek into the space that the song inhabits, and
it was going on before you arrive, and it will
keep playing after you leave, and you're just allowed to
(22:11):
hear a fragment.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, I feel that way about any track that fades out. Yeah, exactly,
so I feel cheated or teased at least, let's close
out Primates takes with this, Brooks breaks a Bill Brooks
breaks it down with the following, a chaotic slab of weirdness.
(22:36):
I love it, and that is how Brooks took our jobs.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, he took our jobs.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
That's pretty much it for Off White Guilt, Frankie and
finally at the end, Frankie of Wales and Woe. I
know that this is one of your top Primus Claypool records.
And as we've revisited it here for the last the
twelve episodes, any new takeaways or realizations on your on
(23:07):
your side.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Maybe a new assessment that I made while listening to
this record again in the process of recording the episodes
is that by the time List made this album, he
had embraced a different scene and a different culture, that
(23:32):
of jamming. So that began with with Purple Onion. And
it's very interesting because when bands embraced that that culture,
the records become kind of an excuse to tour and
they record album versions knowing full well that they will
(23:54):
be expanded and improved in a live city. So what
is interesting for me about this record is that the
songs on the album, with a few exceptions like One Better,
which is kind of a mini epic, but most of
(24:15):
the tracks on the record are very compact. They do
have solos, they do have just a little bit of jamming,
but they are to the point they are compact. They
never overstay, they're welcome. And then, as you mentioned, in
a live setting, you could get fifteen minute versions of
One Better, you could get ten minute versions of Lost Stings,
(24:39):
and so on and so forth. And that is very
interesting because it's not a case of for me with
Wilson Wall, it's not a case of the album being
an excuse or a rush job and then the tour
being incredible. It's a case of the tour being incredible,
the liver being legendary, but the album itself being also
(25:05):
solid and great. And it's been almost twenty years since
it was released, and I think it holds really well
because of the unique aspects that it has in terms
of its sound and its production. I don't think it's
an album that it's ever going to sound data in
the future. I think it's always going to be a
(25:27):
timeless piece of art. I will always remember the endless
hours of enjoyment I got out of it when I
had it on repeat through specific periods of time, and
I could listen to it any time of the week nowadays,
(25:47):
and it's still a record I enjoy from beginning to end.
So I'm glad that I got to say that to Less.
When I met him for the first time, I brought
this out album along with me to get it signed,
and when he got to that one, I said, this
is one of my favorite albums of all time. I'm
(26:08):
really glad that I got to say that to him.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Excellent for me. It's a rock solid album and I
hold it. I hold it high in the pantheon of albums. Now,
I'm going to ask you something, and I hate to
put you on the spot, but if you can only
have one forever, Wales and Woe or Purple Onion.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Wow, very tough question. I mean, both albums are superb,
but if I really have to take one to a
desert island, yeah, I'm going with Wales and Woe simply
because it has one better.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Frankie loves biceps.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
But also which also begs the question, because we didn't
do this, Uh, what what part of the anatomy is off?
White Guilt.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
That is a great question, and I was I was
pondering that as we were recording. What do you think
could be the body part to represent this song?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I honestly have no idea. I think we've taken that
idea as far as we can. I think I'm just
gonna call it the Kneecap. And the reason I'm gonna
call it the kneecap is because it's so percussive. You
just tap along when you're when you're listening to it,
dead at that, dead at dot, dead at debt. There
(27:40):
you go. Well, I guess that does it for us.
So I'll say this off White Guilt. You've been tracked
of Wales and Woe the record you have too. That
does it for of whales and woe, but it certainly
doesn't do it for prime distracts. We'll be back with
all kinds of great stuff, uh before tackling the next
Claypool record in our chronology, Primates, Primatrons, people of Earth, whales, woes.
(28:05):
Thank you all so much for listening. We'll see you
next time later days.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Will the Mace
It's Josh Freaky with a couple of dump shits.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello Primates, you've found Primus Traction. Congratulations. You can find
us at Primus Tracks, on Instagram and threads. Primus Tracks
pod at gmail dot com is the email address, and
of course there's a Facebook page called you Guessed It
for Primus Tracks. I am Josh. I am one of
the hosts of Primus Tracks. He is one of the
(00:36):
other hosts of Primist Tracks. All the way from the
thirty nine flour of Primus Trecks Towers in Mexico City.
Franka Bearstye, Hey Josh, who boy, we are coming to
the end of Wales and woe Frankie, I'm beside myself.
We've had such a good time with this record, and
as all good things must do, this two concludes. We're
(01:02):
going to talk about Off White Guilt today. It is
an instrumental track that ends this record. But we have
some business on the front end.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
And once we are done with these records, we can
move on to your favorite one.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We're gonna move on to my favorite record, which is
the Aladdin soundtrack, possibly my favorite record of all time.
We will be moving on, of course, to the next
Les Claypool record in the chronology after some inter album
interviews and episodes. So hold on to your hats, folks,
(01:35):
and your mushrooms. We have miscellaneous debris. Frankie, take it away.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Little Lord Sentinel seven inch vinyl available on three different
variants unit all three. It's very important.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That's required, right, it is required? Okay, good to know.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
We have the white variant from bandcamp, plus an optional
tip for the band. You get a burgundy vinyl from
Clube Bastardo and you get gray with white skip marks
from Brooklyn Vegan and Revolver.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Frankie has already ordered all three.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
All three, and the B side is bloody fantastic. It's
Dutchess live with Hoffman on drums, superf audio quality, super performance.
What a great time to pick this song for a
B side.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Absolutely, I think thematically it's linked to Little Lord fentnyl
two degree and it seems to be the signature Hoffer
tune at this point. And yeah, great live recording from
the Sasanta tour, great mixing by Matt Weineger. The band
sounds fantastic on that live cut.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Fortune favors the B so that was a great move
by Hoffman picking that song when nobody.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Else Dith certainly energize Lesson Lure so good. Yes, please
go order all three variants of the Little Lord Fentanyl
seven inch, play them back to back to back and
see which one sounds the best.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And send a large tip. Send a large tip to
the band on band camp.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Well, let's talk about off White Guilt, the final track,
track twelve from of Wales and Woe, the two thousand
and six Less Claypool Megalomaniac album. As he calls it,
it is two minutes and twenty one seconds. The strangely
Frankie in the credits, we have Less Claypool base, vocals,
percussion hmm. Those are from the album sleeve credits.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Mike Dylan assorted samples.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes, but vocals hmmm, I didn't hear any. Mike Dylan
on percussion in marimba, Skerrick on tenor sacks, baritone sacks
and horn arrangement, and Gabby Laala on sitar. I suppose
this marks a third track in which there's some kind
of discrepancy in the credits as to what is actually
(04:17):
happening on the track. What to take a look at
our re releases to see if those Uh so.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
It was just a copy paste from the previous credits.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
All right, So this one, Frankie is an instrumental that
concludes the record. There are no lyrics to speak of pop.
I'm gonna guess it doesn't have too many live performances,
but what do you have on There.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Are no lyrics, But it's quite evocative, I would say.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Certainly is as many of his cuts tend to be.
Is there a live history on them? This one of
any sort.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
It was never performed live in any capacity or referenced
outside of the context of the record.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, no teases, no, nothing, not even a three second
reference to this anywhere in the live oove.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I don't think the song lends itself to any of that.
I mean, it's from an instrumental perspective. Yeah, it's quite lush.
It's got some really nice percussion and baritone saxophone. Curtesy,
I'm scary, but I can't imagine this translating to a
(05:40):
live setting.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
If you think that you have heard any reference on
a live show too off White Guilt, please hashtag off
White Guilt and at Frankie Benstein posted on in Instagram
so that he can hear it. We would love to
hear any reference to Off White Guilt.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Just having gone through those all those fancy shows the
previous year, I was listening attentively to them, and I
can't recall any anything that resembled this song remotely.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Okay, this one certainly as an end of album instrumental,
I linked this one. I may have mentioned this before.
I link this one to caution should be used from
the Sausage record because it is point album closing instrumental
that is a bit more free sounding, and certainly it
(06:42):
also contains samples. There's some ambient audience footage of a
sort at the end of this track that I can't place,
and who knows where it came from. Have you ever
heard any any kind of source on that fanky No,
But my.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Theory is that these were probably just taken from a
sound library.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Les Clipole loves his free sounds, so yes, probably from
the public domain.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
When I went back to try to find what I
had drawn for this track, I discovered my illustration of
a Native American. So that reminded me that since I
first heard the record, and I heard this song in particular,
(07:37):
for some reason, it put my mind in the context
of a casino. Now, I heard the noises and the
people laughing and talking, and my mind just went there.
And I think the association that I made is that
white guilty is a belief that white people bear a
(07:59):
responsibility for the harm which has resulted from historical or
current racist treatment of people belonging to other ethnic groups.
Such examples are slave trade, European colonialism, and the genocide
of indigenous peoples. So the story that I concocted in
my mind is that people might shake off white guilt
(08:21):
by gambling and casinos because they feel that they are
contributing to an indigenous business or a Native American business.
So that's where my mind took me when I heard
the track, to try to give it some semblance of meaning,
because otherwise it's just incredibly abstract of white guilt and
(08:44):
then a bunch of noises and people laughing. Yeah, it's
not something that you can wrap your head around.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
That's an interesting idea. I don't think that I even
thought of it as casino sounds. So let's go to
the last few Let's go to the last few seconds
of this track and see what we hear. Yeah, I
(09:30):
don't know that just sounds like an ambient recording. To me,
there's what sounds like a phone ringing staccato type buzzing sound,
as if a door is closing or the red light's
on for recording in a studio or something like that,
and then this ambient crowd noise. But I'm not sure, Frankie.
I'm not entirely certain what we're supposed to take from that,
(09:52):
and it may just be some some public domain noises
that we're just there.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
But don't you hear like the Native American call at
the beginning.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I do hear that voice, and I'm not entirely sure
what it is. And I don't think your inference is wrong.
It's just not something that I had put together. So
you are making those connections and they you know, they
kind of they kind of go together logically.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, I mean, it's not the official interpretation, but since
it's an instrumental, that's the great thing about it that
everyone can take away something different from it. So sure,
I don't know. Ever since I heard the record and
this song came on, that's the mental picture that it
generated in my mind.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, that's an interesting picture for sure, and it links
to his novel South of the Pumphouse from this same
era in which in part of the story he mentions
in the narration, he mentions the concept of white guilt.
And so this phrase must have been termin over in
(11:06):
his head while he was composing the novel, and must
have been in a notebook that sort of thing, and
then he gave it a turn of phrase for track title.
So and it's pretty clever off white guilt, pretty funny,
you know, it's one of those it's one of those
titles where you go, that's funny, and then and then
you can move on and you make a great point.
(11:28):
It's open to interpretation as to what the world's going
on with the with the sounds at the end, you know,
if you if you want to take it further, you
one could argue that the sounds that the band is
making mimic the sound of things like slot machines, all
(11:49):
kinds of casino machinery, because those places are cacophin is Frankie.
Every time I walk into a casino, it's over stimulating.
Sometimes it's overwhelming, depending the on the establishment I visit,
and they're they're they're that way purposefully.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Of course, let me give another listen to to that part,
and that's a nice melody right there with the saxophone.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Very percussive in that part too, uh. Scerrik provides a
bit of melody the rest of it very percussive. The
citar flourishes are particularly satisfying, you know, to extend your metaphor, Frank,
I just see a lot of coins tumbling into slots
at the casino if we're going to go in that direction.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
And it's not surprising that the Sex takes center stage
on this track and be kind of the lead instrument
because this was a tour where they were doing things
like a Shot in the Dark, one Step Beyond, and
they were totally saxophone driven. So I think that's something
(13:21):
that is a really cool highlight about this record that
the saxophone got a lot of spotlight throughout the tracks.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Scerrik is indispensable on this record, and without him it
certainly wouldn't have the life that it does. And on
those fancy tours he was front and center and taking
the spotlight quite a bit, and the fan base certainly
(13:52):
loved him and showed appreciation for him, and he kept
coming back for more on numerous tours in the yachts.
So yeah, hats off is sceric for certain, for just
bringing one energy.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
With thirty seconds, let's start queueing the band for a
build up.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Wow, that builds, and yeah, you could hear the base
changing register, so as people are laying down their parts,
they know what's happening where.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Lots of talking in the background at the end, but
of course it's impossible to make out what they are.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Saying, yes, unintelligible, so it's hard to tell if this
is just a whole bunch to people in a meeting
hall or a studio or what have you, just chatter
in a way ambient ambient noise. What a strange little
track to end this record on, Frankie, because you know
the rest of the rest of the album is so
structured and so put together so thoughtfully, even the opening
(15:21):
track all the way through and then off way Guilt.
We get that spirit of jamming, and of course that
is what defines the live shows and tours in this era,
was extending these tunes and finding new places to take them.
You know, seventeen minute versions of the Phantom Patriot, for example.
(15:45):
I hesitate to use the term throwaway track, but it's
there to end the record on a different note, but
I think it certainly does show the jammy spirit.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yes, and cautions should be used is self explanatory. I mean,
it paints a perfectly clear picture. But this track, I mean,
what an oddity, right, because it could have been titled anything,
but of White Guild is very specific. So there has
(16:17):
got to be a connection between the title and the
samples and the overall structure of the song. It's just
that it's either open to interpretation or it's really hard
to figure out.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yeah, it's a bit vague. If it was titled I
can't find my can opener, it'd be pretty clear, right,
But this is much less clear than that. So certainly
by taking the title and what that implies with some
of the noise that we hear at the end, you
could certainly dry your own conclusions as well as the music.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Of course, it wouldn't be the first time, though, that
they reference this topic, because we have Wounded Knee on
Pork Soda.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Oh sure, yes, and we've discussed that one of course. Yes,
Ding Dang of course has some similar thematic elements. So yeah,
this is not something that he's approached for the first time,
and certainly you can read all about it in South
(17:21):
of the Pumphouse lessus novella that we will be discussing
at some point in the near future.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
I believe now the title off with double if yeah,
is it making reference to this is a topic that
belongs to the concept of white guild or the title
is referencing that it's shaking off that feeling.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Oh, I just took it as the colors off white
is a pretty common term for a color that's not
pure white. I think it's just a play on words. Yeah,
more than you know, some kind of commentary of something
other than white guilt. That's that's where I go with it.
I think it's pretty lighthearted in that regard, So.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
It might not be as complex as we are trying
to make it seem.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Maybe not.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Maybe it's just a play onwards.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
It's just a pump, That's what I'm going with. Well,
we've talked about this track, Frankie and I think we've
hit a wall. So let's do this. Ah, that could
only mean one thing. It's time for Primates takes. If
you too would like your takes on the track up
for discussion, read right here on the podcast. All you
have to do is go to patreon dot com forward
(18:44):
slash Primus tracks. There are many tiers of sport over there.
There's a lot of fun stuff going on on the daily,
on the weekly, on the monthly. But this is one
of the universal benefits, which is Primates takes, and we
have quite a few. For off White Guilt Frankie that
people want to close of Whales and Woe with a bang.
(19:08):
Travis in Alaska, I won't tell you which one, says,
I usually restart this track a few times as the
first twelve bars or so are so juicy. I left
Less's tone on this one, and I'm a sucker for
instrumental tracks anyway. Other than Riddles. Wales is my favorite
non primus Claypool album. I wouldn't say I've reassessed. Oh.
(19:30):
I should also throw in here, Frankie that I threw
in a bonus question, which is have you reassessed anything
about this record? After we revisited the pod, Travis says,
I wouldn't say I've reassessed anything, but it's always great
to hear others geek out about things I've always known.
I was motivated to learn a few tracks, though specifically
(19:50):
one better after hearing Luke Kill It also Nothing Ventured
and the title track. For me, this album has many
of Less's most interesting baselines and our Heart as Hell
a definite evolution in his playing Thank You, Travis and Alaska.
Nick in the Netherlands says, usually a skip for me,
but I do love the sound of the rainbow Fretless
(20:12):
on this song, and it's a nice finish to an
amazing album. But I prefer listening to the prior tracks
and that's why I usually skip it. Didn't even think
about the fact that he's playing a frontless bass on
this one, Frankie.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Did, Yeah, didn't really cross my mind.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, because we were busy trying to decipher the hidden
meetings as opposed to listening closely to the instrumentation. Ah.
Let's continue our jaunt around the world by visiting Eric
in Australia, who says a classic Claypoolian oddity, maybe just
so he could use the clever title. As I've said,
(20:50):
I've always rolled along with the primus Claypool. I would
say purple, onion and whales stand out like beacons on
San Peblo Bay. Nice Eric Ryan Rashon says, could you
be scary? But this sounds more like a Tuatara song
than a Less song. I dig it, despite it feeling
like a snippet of a jam that I wish I
could hear more of. That's a great point that Ryan makes,
(21:10):
because this one you could certainly hear in the minute
and fifty odd seconds that we get that. There's a
lot of potential to flesh that out and do something more.
Now we know that Less always says there are no extras,
but maybe Frankie just maybe there's an extended version of
(21:31):
Off Way Guilt somewhere.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Yeah, because it ends very abruptly.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Agreed, I think there's maybe a longer version that.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Was just cut out out. Yeah, it sounds like they
could have gone on for several minutes.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Hey, what if there's a thirteen minute version of this one?
Just like Los Postatos.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, some tracks do give you that perception that you're
not getting the full thing, but you're just being allowed
a peek into the space that the song inhabits, and
it was going on before you arrive, and it will
keep playing after you leave, and you're just allowed to
(22:11):
hear a fragment.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, I feel that way about any track that fades out. Yeah, exactly,
so I feel cheated or teased at least, let's close
out Primates takes with this, Brooks breaks a Bill Brooks
breaks it down with the following, a chaotic slab of weirdness.
(22:36):
I love it, and that is how Brooks took our jobs.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, he took our jobs.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
That's pretty much it for Off White Guilt, Frankie and
finally at the end, Frankie of Wales and Woe. I
know that this is one of your top Primus Claypool records.
And as we've revisited it here for the last the
twelve episodes, any new takeaways or realizations on your on
(23:07):
your side.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Maybe a new assessment that I made while listening to
this record again in the process of recording the episodes
is that by the time List made this album, he
had embraced a different scene and a different culture, that
(23:32):
of jamming. So that began with with Purple Onion. And
it's very interesting because when bands embraced that that culture,
the records become kind of an excuse to tour and
they record album versions knowing full well that they will
(23:54):
be expanded and improved in a live city. So what
is interesting for me about this record is that the
songs on the album, with a few exceptions like One Better,
which is kind of a mini epic, but most of
(24:15):
the tracks on the record are very compact. They do
have solos, they do have just a little bit of jamming,
but they are to the point they are compact. They
never overstay, they're welcome. And then, as you mentioned, in
a live setting, you could get fifteen minute versions of
One Better, you could get ten minute versions of Lost Stings,
(24:39):
and so on and so forth. And that is very
interesting because it's not a case of for me with
Wilson Wall, it's not a case of the album being
an excuse or a rush job and then the tour
being incredible. It's a case of the tour being incredible,
the liver being legendary, but the album itself being also
(25:05):
solid and great. And it's been almost twenty years since
it was released, and I think it holds really well
because of the unique aspects that it has in terms
of its sound and its production. I don't think it's
an album that it's ever going to sound data in
the future. I think it's always going to be a
(25:27):
timeless piece of art. I will always remember the endless
hours of enjoyment I got out of it when I
had it on repeat through specific periods of time, and
I could listen to it any time of the week nowadays,
(25:47):
and it's still a record I enjoy from beginning to end.
So I'm glad that I got to say that to Less.
When I met him for the first time, I brought
this out album along with me to get it signed,
and when he got to that one, I said, this
is one of my favorite albums of all time. I'm
(26:08):
really glad that I got to say that to him.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Excellent for me. It's a rock solid album and I
hold it. I hold it high in the pantheon of albums. Now,
I'm going to ask you something, and I hate to
put you on the spot, but if you can only
have one forever, Wales and Woe or Purple Onion.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Wow, very tough question. I mean, both albums are superb,
but if I really have to take one to a
desert island, yeah, I'm going with Wales and Woe simply
because it has one better.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Frankie loves biceps.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
But also which also begs the question, because we didn't
do this, Uh, what what part of the anatomy is off?
White Guilt.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
That is a great question, and I was I was
pondering that as we were recording. What do you think
could be the body part to represent this song?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I honestly have no idea. I think we've taken that
idea as far as we can. I think I'm just
gonna call it the Kneecap. And the reason I'm gonna
call it the kneecap is because it's so percussive. You
just tap along when you're when you're listening to it,
dead at that, dead at dot, dead at debt. There
(27:40):
you go. Well, I guess that does it for us.
So I'll say this off White Guilt. You've been tracked
of Wales and Woe the record you have too. That
does it for of whales and woe, but it certainly
doesn't do it for prime distracts. We'll be back with
all kinds of great stuff, uh before tackling the next
Claypool record in our chronology, Primates, Primatrons, people of Earth, whales, woes.
(28:05):
Thank you all so much for listening. We'll see you
next time later days.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Will the Mace
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