The Minds Last Stand_ The third Man Factor

Imagine being pushed past every limit – freezing, starving, completely alone, and facing certain death. Just when your mind is about to snap, an unseen presence appears. It's a voice, a feeling, a guide that shouldn't be there, pulling you back from the brink.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Cre Van through the midnight, hay Season, Shadows in the
Darkest May's foot step, second in the Empty Hall, Mysteries, Wading,
no Big Foot, stopping through the past, Alien send the Secrets,

(00:37):
Sience e. VP's in the dead of night, ghost is
in in the pill light. Don't know before what we
bring it to your truth behind the veil, gotta talking
about it.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
All ride. Welcome everybody to another episode. It's Thursday, Thursday, rainy.
It has been raining. I'm ready for this rain to end. Yeah,
it was pretty this morning, ready for it to go.
Then it rained about.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Years came a deluge. Wasn't just raining, it was pouring.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
I hope everybody is doing all right today. I guess
I am. How about you?

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Oh I'm doing good. Yeah, I mean you know, it's Thursday,
tomorrow's Friday. It's uh Jason's wife's birthday today.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Oh yeah, happy birthday.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Happy birthday, Christina.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
I hope you had a good one. So tonight we're
going to be talking about the third man factor, that
thing that comes to you when you're about to kick
the bucket.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Hey, Roger, I'm glad you're okay. Yeah, you've been getting
a lot of storms and stuff down that way too,
haven't you.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
So, Like I said, we're gonna be talking about the
third man factor or third person syndrome. It's called a
few different things. So just imagine yourself in the most
terrifying situation possible. Perhaps you're lost in an empty wilderness

(02:43):
or clinging to a piece of wreckage after a stormy
ocean wreck. You're alone, and you're convinced.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Don't look like he's got it on rumble.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
Oh forgot to put it up on rumble, No, rumble
to not Now it doesn't lost what I was doing.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Clinging to a piece of wreckage on the stormy ocean.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
So suddenly, in that moment of ultimate despair and isolation,
you get an incredible, strong, undeniable feeling that someone else
is right there with you. You can't physically see them,
you can't touch them or hear their footsteps, but the
sense of their presence is so real and vivid that

(03:36):
it almost feels tangible. So this is profound and mister, So,
this is a profound and mysterious phenomena, and it's what
people commonly refer to as the third man syndrome or
the third man factor.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, what's cool about this is that I've never really
heard about it until Jason to is starting to figure
out what we was going to do the show on.
And Jason's like, hey, let's do it on this third
man factor. And I'm like, what the heck is that?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
What is that?

Speaker 3 (04:20):
And but as we started going through the research, I
was like, Ah, this would make a pretty intriguing show.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, makes you think, Yeah, so you know, this isn't
just a thought or a hopeful wish. It's a deep
persuasive awareness of an additional entity that is accompanying you.

(04:47):
It's nature is almost universally described as benevolent, supportive, and comforting.
It's not scary or threatening. It's quite opposite. The The
invisible companion seems to appear specifically to offer solace and reassurance,
calming your racing heart, cutting through your overwhelming fear and despair.

(05:12):
It feels like a silent guardian or a compassionate ally
that has materialized out of nowhere, alleviating the crushing burden
of being utterly alone in a desperate fight for survival.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, and as we go along, you'll kind of realize
that that's when this factor really kicks in, is when
you're almost at your end, about ready to give up,
and this third person or second person if it's just you,
if you're alone at the time, but this other thing

(05:48):
comes and is reassuring and usually helps people get out
of their situation, out of danger and fine, help.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, it's it. It's pretty neat.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
You know. The experience is often so powerful that survivors
describe it as a profound shift in their perception of reality. Now,
the crushing weight of isolation suddenly lifts, and it's replaced
by an inexplicable sense of companionship. Now, this isn't just
a psychological trick that makes you feel less alone. It

(06:26):
genuinely feels like a distinct, sentient entity that has joined
your ordeal. Now, the reality of this unseen presence is
so convincing for those who experience it that they often
emerge from their ordeal with an unwavering conviction that they
truly were helped by something beyond ordinary understanding. And we've

(06:51):
got eight cases that we're going to talk about here
in just a little bit. Now. The third man seems
to appear where precisely when an individual is pushed to
their absolute limits physically, mentally, and emotionally, it's when the
body is exhausted, the mind is reeling from stress, and

(07:14):
the spirit is on the verge of breaking that this
phenomena tends to manifest. Now it acts as a lifeline,
providing a psychological anchor in the storm. It prevents the
individual from succumbing to the overwhelming sense of hopelessness that
often accompanies extreme survival situations. So, at its core, the

(07:40):
third Man is a unique and often life saving experience.
It's where a person under unimaginable dress senses the presence
of an unseen, benevolent companion. Now, this presence feels incredibly real,
and it provides immense comfort and fundamentally alters the survival's

(08:03):
mental state, which helps them preserve themselves throughout the situation
that would otherwise seem impossible to overcome alone. So it
is pretty mysterious that the mind's ability to find extraordinary
ways to survive.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, the mind is, uh, we don't know a lot
about it, do we know. No, can do a lot
of different things. Yeah, can make you see things, especially
if you take hallucinogens. Yeah, but you know, they've they've
shown where just being deprived of light, Yeah, sound and

(08:46):
things like that can also make you start hallucinating. Hm hm.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Wow. Thank you only the oscars for going through all that.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Though, Yeah, I wonder why.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, that's crazy. So you didn't get alert or anything
at the look into that.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
So you're just join us. We're talking about the third
man factor. Yes, So what does this invisible person do
or this entity? What does it do? It's more than
just a presence. I think it's it actively intervenes to help,

(09:29):
but the individual survive. Yep. It provides crucial, crucial, psychological,
and sometimes even seemingly physical aid. Excuse me. Its role is.
Its role is deeply supportive and guiding, directly counteracting the

(09:50):
effects of fear, despair, and isolation that typically accompany life
threatening situations. The assistance offered by this unseen companion is
most always benevolent and seems tailored to the immediate needs
of the person in distress, and it acts as a

(10:12):
crucial resource when all other help is beyond reach.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
The question mark on accident on the But she said
they said that no notifications on their feed.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
That's crazy, right, Yeah, I don't know why. It maybe
got to subscribe again or.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Entity friends that watches up for me talk tell them wow, Wow, Hey, Andrea,
I hope Darryl's doing okay.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
So one of the most primary functions is to provide
profound emotional support. Individuals are often overwhelmed by panic, anxiety,
and crushing sense of loneliness, so this third man brings
an a sense of peace and reassurance, settling the racing

(11:14):
mind and replacing terror with a surprising clarity of thought.
And this calming influence allows the survivor to maintain composure
and think more rationally, making better decisions. It transforms a chaotic,

(11:35):
terrifying struggle into a more focused, manageable challenge. So beyond
emotional comfort, the third man frequently offers direct guidance and
practical advice. A lot of survivors often report hearing a

(11:55):
clear voice, whether it sounds like their own internal voice,
but with an authority or distinct external voice giving precise instructions.
So this guidance can range from simple words of encouragement
like keep moving, keep moving, or don't give up. Don't

(12:17):
give up, to highly specific tactical device such as which
direction to take, how to conserve energy, or even warning
of unseen dangers like crevices over thin ice. These you know,
these perceived directives are often credited with saving lives, making

(12:39):
the third man a vital source of practical wisdom in
your dire moments.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Now, this unseen presence is often it instills an extraordinary
surge of determination and renewed willpower. When the body is
utterly exhausted and the spirit is on the verge of breaking,
the third man provides the emotional fuel necessary to push
beyond perceived limits. So it's like having an invisible coach

(13:14):
or cheerleader who relentlessly urges you onwards, instilling a fierce
resolve to survive. Now, this renewed sense of purpose is
not just a fleeting emotion, but a sustained drive that
enables individuals to endure physical pain, mental anguish, and far

(13:35):
beyond what they believe themselves capable of, preventing them from
succumbing to despair. And that's what happens to a lot
of people, right, yeah, exactly, everything will work out. See
only oscars here is that a lot? So you know
about the third man syndrome.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Then might be your guardian angel.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
It's what's something rightard angel? Loved one parent that's dead
or something like that, And some remarkable accounts. Survivals even
perceive physical assistance despite no one being visibly present. This
can manifest as a feeling of a gentle push on
the back when climbing, a guiding hand on the shoulder,

(14:22):
or a sensation of someone helping to share a physical burden. Now,
while these sensations are likely products of the mind under
extreme stress, they do feel incredibly real to the individual
and further reinforce the active, benevolent role of the third man.
Now this is perceived as physical aid combined with the

(14:44):
emotional and cognitive guidance, which creates a holistic support system
that empowers the individual to persevere through the most insurmountable challenges.
And Michelle, that's one of it. Some people say too.
A lot of people on the scientific side of it

(15:09):
say that it's just your own mind pushing you through
where you don't think that you can make it. Hello, Kelly,
doing good? How are you.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
So? I think we've talked about when this happens, it's
almost exclusively triggered by life threatening stress and extreme duress,
and it pushes individuals to the absolute brink of human endurance.

(15:45):
These are not everyday challenges, but scenarios where survival is
genuinely uncertain and the states are literally life threatening. And it's.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
As if it's me. I've been given that bad advice,
Kelly says, I'm good, thank you.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
So. Common context where the third man appears involve extreme
isolation and exposure to hostile environments. Think of solo adventures
on vast polar expeditions, mountaineers stranded on treacherous hag altitude peaks,

(16:28):
or sailors adrifting the unforgiving open ocean after a shipwreck.
In these situations, the body is subject to intense physiological stress,
such as cold, dehydration, starvation, sleep deprivation, and extreme fatigue.
Well that's hot. Yeah, So the brain under such pressure

(16:54):
begins to function in an altered state. You almost said
the I did say that. I said function setting the
stage for this phenomena. So it starts out with the brain. Yes,
but your brain may be calling your guardian angel, what

(17:17):
if it happens? So therefore, understanding the third man syndromes
necessitates recognizing the extreme crucible in which it manifests. It
is a powerful demonstration of the human mind and its

(17:37):
capacity for resonance and adaptation when confronted with the ultimate
challenge of life or death, and it suggests that under
specific conditions of stress and humans, the human psyche possesses
an inherent ability to generate supportive external presences, acting as

(17:59):
crucial in turns resources to navigate and overcome the most
precious or perilous situations, ultimately increasing the chance of survival
against overwhelming odds. And these these few ones that we're
going to talk about, these people have survived and this

(18:19):
is their story that they've told about what happened some
of them is pretty interesting. I don't think it's just
the mind doing tricks.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, I think it's I don't know, it's something it is.
It's interesting. It's what I'll say because you know, one
of the people that we're going to talk about, we
have eight examples. So some books were written and we'll
get to that when we get past these eight examples.
But a book was written and they had over two

(18:53):
hundred examples of this phenomena that we're talking about tonight.
Now these are eight that were taking out out of
that book itself, and it's pretty pretty interesting because the
first one that we've got is Ernest Shackleton and his

(19:13):
Antarctic expedition in nineteen sixteen, So kind of some background
of what happened. Their ship actually got caught up in
the ice and after it was there for a while,
the ice pack just kept growing and growing and growing,
and it finally just crushed their ship. So Ernest Shackleton

(19:38):
and two companions, Tom Crean and Frank Worsley embarked on
a desperate thirty six hour march across uncharted glaciers and
mountains of South Georgia Island. Now they were exhausted from
frost's bite and facing hypothermia. They carried only rudimentary equipment,

(20:00):
a rope some screws from their lifeboat driven through their
boots for traction. So throughout the track, all three men
independently sensed a divine companion that was guiding them. Now,
Shackleton himself described it as an in corporeal fourth presence,

(20:24):
writing it seemed to me often that there were four,
not three. Warsally later confirmed I had the subconscious feeling
that there were four of us, while Krinn privately admitted
the same to friends. Now, none of these men spoke
it during the ordeal, fearing its signaled delirium. The presence

(20:48):
provided directional intuition, It steered them away from crevices, and
it also gave them the emotional fortitude amid blizzards. And
so interpretations of this, you know, Shackleton himself framed it
as a divine providence. Now, other people like biographer Roland

(21:13):
Hunford attributed to dehydration which induced hallucinations. Modern neurologists suggest
extreme stress trigger, which is a dysfunction which manifests a
felt presence. Now, the trio reached some strongness swelling station

(21:36):
enabled the rescue of all twenty two crewmen left on
the Elephant Island. So that got to Elephant Island. These
three men left Elephant Island, leaving the rest of their
crew there, and they was actually able to go back
rescue those other twenty two crewmen. And they didn't lose
a single life during that whole thing.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah. So Shackleton's account and nineteen nineteen popularized the phenomena,
which inspired TS Eliott's The Wasteland in nineteen twenty two,
in which he coined the term third man.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Thought they said it was a native who found them.
I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
No, they know, they said when they got to the island,
the Island was uninhabited, and so they took one of
the lifeboats and the three men did and they went
through blizzards and all kinds of other stuff to be
able to get to Elephant Island. Then when they got
to Elephant Island, they had to march all the way

(22:50):
across it to get to where that station was. Yeah,
to actually get the rescue. So I don't know. I
read the full account of it, and I didn't want
to put the full account because man, we probably would
have had only time for maybe one or two. So
I had to kind of condense it down quite a

(23:12):
bit because it was a very long story.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, very long story.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
When I was showing it to Jason when we was
doing it, Jason was like, that might be too long.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
So so another another example was Ron di Francisco. Now
he is a nine to eleven Trade Center survivor. So
on September eleventh, two thousand and one, he was on

(23:50):
the eighty fourth floor of the South Tower when United
Flight one seventy five struck trapped in smoke into He
attempted to descend, but collapse near the eighty first floor.
He was overcome by toxic fumes and despair so a
commanding male voice distinct from human rescuers shouted get up

(24:17):
and called him by name De Francisco, and that's that's
a hard name to pronounces Francisco. He felt an invisible
hand physically lift him up and steer him toward a

(24:37):
stairwell said, he said, I was led to the stairs.
I was definitely led. He recounted that, and the presence
radiated calm, countering his panic with reassurance, you can do this,
you can do it, you can do it. So he

(25:00):
he was the last person to escape above the impact
zone before the tower collapsed. Too. That's crazy. Now. The
Di Francisco insisted it was an angel. Scientists propose auditory
hallucinations from temporal lobe activation under duress. I think it

(25:23):
was swamp gas. That makes more sense to me. Yeah,
that's what it was. Yeah, it was a sad day.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yes, very.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
John Geiger notes such experiences often involved tactile sensations, blurring
neurological and spiritual explanations. So he survived with burns and
lung damage. His testimony became pivotal in Gregor's The Third
Man Factor, illustrating the syndrome's role in modern disasters. Yep, crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
So the next one is Joe Simpson. Now, this guy
was a Andes mountaineer in nineteen eighty five. I mean,
people remember nineteen eighty five.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
I do, I do. That's when Back to the Future
came out.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
So, during a descent of Peru's Celiua Grande, Simpson shattered
his leg in a fall, was lowered into a crevice
by his partner, Simon Yates, and presumed dead. That would

(26:48):
be terrible.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
It would be He's gone, let's go, let's get out
of here.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
You can't make it back anyway. Stranded without food or water,
he faced a five day crawl across glaciers to base camp.
Five days.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Crawl, yeah, crawling.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
So he says that an authoritative voice countered his despair
with directives like don't stop now, go left. He said
that it navigated him through the ice fields and crevices,
once urging him to sip putrid water to avoid dehydration. Now,

(27:31):
Simpson described it as an external intelligence overwriting his logical mind.
He said, it wasn't my voice. It was very impatient,
almost scornful. So Simpson rejected supernatural claims, aligning with psychologists

(27:51):
Julian James bicmeral mind theory, and it states that stress
splits the consciousness into a speaker or right brain and
listener left brain. Says that hypoxia and pain likely exacerbated this. Now,

(28:16):
his survival is documented in Touching the Void in nineteen
eighty eight. Touching the Void yep, which is pretty crazy.
H Yeah, how do you like that to be just
lowered down? Break your leg? Be lowered down?

Speaker 2 (28:33):
He's dead. Let's get out of here.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
That'd be something five days to crawl across.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Glaciers. Yeah, I wonder if the army crawled it.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
I'm sure then broken leg.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
A lot of these stories are in the Mountains from
from explorers and hikers that want to conquer something. Right,
it's unconquerable.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Andrew says, her inner voice always sounds like other people.
Maybe it ain't your InterVoice, it's something else. It might
be your left brain, right brain, her right brain, right
brain talking to your left brain.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
So we got another one. Frank Smith. Now, this was
a Mount Everest summit attempt in nineteen thirty three. So
after his team turned back due to storms and oxygen oxygen.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Oxygen oxygen, my gosh.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Oxygen deprivation at twenty seven thousand feet. Smith continued solo
towards Evers's summit, a near suicidal effort in nineteen thirty
three climbing conditions, so Smith sensed an unseen companion so
vividly that he offered it kindle mint cake. He said,

(30:01):
I had the strong feeling that I was accompanied by
a second person. The presence alleviated isolation and provided psychological resonance,
though it vanished when he turned to look at twenty
eight thousand feet, just a thousand feet short of the summit.
It accepted defeat, but credited the presence for his mental endurance. Wow.

(30:26):
So a lot of scientists attribute this to hypoxia and
sensory deprivation in white out conditions. Smith later mused it
might be the spirit of a deceased climber, reflecting mountaineering
Lord's blend of science and mysticism. His diary entry became

(30:50):
a foundational account in exploration psychology, and it cited in
studies on high altitude hallucinations. Isn't that crazy? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (31:06):
My inner voice always sounds like me, What's what's up? Brandy?

Speaker 2 (31:10):
It's up? Randy talks all the time. I hope you're
doing better. Oh so this next.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
One is James, and I'm not even trying to say
his last name.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Something.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
He's an avalanche survivor from the Canadian Rockies, right yeah,
no right else, just like hey, don't don't no further bar.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, jupid right brain.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
So in nineteen eighty two, James and a climbing partner,
Richard Whitmere, were buried under an avalanche near Lake Luis, Alberta.
Now whip Mirror died instantly. SEVENY woke with a broken back,

(32:08):
internal bleeding and torn ligaments.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Ouch.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
That sounds like not fun. No. Now, as SEVENY prepared
to die, there's a physical presence manifested behind his right shoulder.
He said, it mentally urged you can't give up and
dispense survival advice. Follow the blood dripping from your nose

(32:38):
like an arrow. The presence guided his six hour crawl.
It's proximity palpable during agonizing moments. Upon reaching base camp,
he felt profound loneliness when it vanished. Now he viewed
it as a transcendent guardian. Funny how depending on like

(33:03):
your view of the world and stuff, how different people
see these things? Yeah, now, neurologists Oloff Blank. His experiments
links such felt presences to TPJ disruptions during trauma, so
a hardwired copying mechanism. So this rescuer airlifted him to safety.

(33:29):
He recovered after months of rehabilitation. And again another one
for the books, another one that has the third Man syndrome.
But and that pretty cool. Yeah, perspectives, yes, can change everything, absolutely,

(33:49):
And you know, everybody has their own perspectives and their
own way of seeing the world and everything in it.
And so if it is your own brain, it would
know exactly what to say to keep pushing you. But
if it is something external, it shows that it knows

(34:09):
you enough to know what buttons to push to keep
you going.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, pretty neat. So this next one is ryin Hold
Messinger and this happened in the Nagna Parabout expedition in
nineteen seventy. So after summoning Nagna Parabout with his brother Gunther,

(34:36):
ryin Hold faced a catastrophic descent. Gunther, debilitated by altitude sickness,
vanished in the ice fall. Exhausted and grieving, Messner navigated
alone through the blizzard. So Messner also since the third
Climber descending beside him, just out of his filled of vision.

(35:00):
Though it was invisible, its proximity felt tangible, and he
could sense its presence. He needed no proof because it
provided navigational certainty through wide out conditions, reducing his panic.

(35:20):
So he Messner was a skeptic and rejected the supernatural theories,
calling it a natural brain response to invent survival when
reality offers none. So Geiger links this to evolutionary psychology,

(35:40):
the mind conjures companionship to prevent fatal resignation.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
Okay, there's some doctors and stuff that believe the same thing. Again,
we go right back to perspective. That's what he told himself,
because that's what he believe.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Man, This next one is the one I love so much.
Go ahead, No, you do it, do it? I want
you to do it. I want to listen.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
Oh oh, I got you so Aaron Ralston. So this
accident happened in two thousand and three. I remember when
this happened, because if I'm not mistaken, after all this happened,
he went on like Oprah and all kinds of different

(36:28):
daytime talk shows and stuff. He was pinned by an
eight hundred pounds boulder in Utah's Blue John Canyon. Now,
after six days of dehydration, hypothermia, and felled escape attempts,
he recorded a farewell message for his family. Now he

(36:51):
was hallucinating, and Ralston says that he saw a vision
of himself playing with a future son. It was a boy,
of course, a son, and he was missing his right arm. Now,
this epiphany ignited a resolve to amputate his crusted forearm

(37:15):
with a dull multi tool. He said, it was the
best idea I will ever have, describing euphoria, not horror.
The vision's timing provided crucial. Rescuers found him just thirty
minutes before blood loss would have killed him.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Now that's amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Psychologists framed this as a stress induced disassociative state where
the brain projects future selves to override immediate suffering. But
now Rawston himself use it as a spiritual intervention. He
says that his survival inspired, or his survival actually inspired
the film one hundred and twenty seven Hours, and that

(38:00):
was based on what happened to him. The case broadened
third Man syndrome to include prematory visions, so premonitions and
not just auditory or tactile presences.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a real good story right there.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
It makes you wonder about some things. And the way
I think about some of those things is that you know.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
What if? What if?

Speaker 3 (38:36):
It is our brain and it, fearing death, can sometimes
reach into the future to do things to tell us, hey,
this is the future. You just got to do this,
get through this, to get to this future. I mean,
we already know that people can remote view and see

(39:00):
all kinds of things in the past, present, the future.
So why would that be out of the realm, you know, right,
It's something that was tapped into and just didn't realize it.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Brain wanting its own survival. Yes, I think that only
oscars life is too precious to lose. Maybe these people
had something that they needed to do.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Mm hmm. It's like a lot of near death experiences
when you know you it's not your time, it's not
your time, something says it's not your time, go back, uh,
or they're always get finished. Well, they're always giving a choice,
you can stay here, but yeah, you know, it's not

(39:49):
really your time, you know. Yeah. So this next story
is of Vincent Lamb. This is a physical ordeal that
he had Lamb's crisis was psychological. Overwhelmed by studying for
a medical entrance exam, he collapsed during a panic attack,

(40:14):
doubting his career path. So a guardian angel appeared, visually
indistinct but radiating calm, and advised, your purpose is healing,
not perfection. So it anchored him during desolate this I
can't say that word dissociation, guiding his focus back to

(40:39):
study materials. So the presence faded once his breath his
breathing studied. So Lamb, a physician, acknowledged stress triggered disassociation,
but also embraced spiritual symbolism. Therapists now use cultivated inner

(41:02):
characters to help patients self soothe, validating such experiences as
congenitive resources. So Lamb regained clarity, entered medical school, and
later won literary awards, and his his case illustrates the
syndrome's adaptability to physic non physical crisises. What do you think, well.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
I mean, I think you know what Geiger's research and everything.
There's patterns and insights that he says. You know, he
goes extreme stress, right, so isolation imminent death consistently precedes
the phenomena. You know mountaineers thirty two percent does that

(42:00):
survivals twenty nine percent, and they report the highest incidences
that crazy. There's forty five percent auditory, thirty percent tactile
or physical guidance, and twenty five percent of the time
it's visual, so they actually see figures. Now, the presence

(42:21):
often delivers actionable advice, distinguishing it from chaotic hallucinations. So,
from scientific side of it, neurologist Oluff Blake introduced felt
presences by disrupting JP or DPG activity with robotics, which

(42:43):
confirms the brain can generate externalized self images under sensory deprivation,
which there's been tons of studies on that kind of thing.
Sensory deprivation does all kinds of stuff. That's why that's
something that's used on no prisoners of war and stuff
like that. They'll put them in black rooms and blair

(43:05):
music or just do different things to kill their senses.
So now similar phenomena do appear globally shadow companions Himalayan
mountain deities, which suggests a cross cultural survival instinct. Now,

(43:30):
John Geiger, he actually said whether it's neurons or angels,
the third man reveals a profound truth that humans are
hardwired to hope when reality offers none. That's good, yep,

(43:51):
John Geiger. And that's from a book The Third Man
Factor that we took, you know, those eight accounts from
when the Oscar says her hubby had an NDEM.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Wow, I had a ob maybe a nd I don't know,
could be either or I'd like to have it wasn't
no fun.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Had a body experience.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
So in modern times, the third Man continues to be
reported by contemporary adventures, athletes, military personnel, and it confirms
that it's not just a past thing. Figures like a
legendary mountaineer Ryan Holmassner have openly spoke about feeling an
unseen presence during his solo and their fatal descent, providing

(44:48):
comfort and motivation in his extreme grief and exhaustion. So
these ongoing accounts reinforced the reality and universality of the
third Man syndrome, you know, as a profound and often
life saving aspect of the human experience in the face
of you know, unimaginable consequences. Right.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
So there's a lot of theories. One of the most
widely accepted and scientifically explored explanations for the third man
phenomenon is that it acts as a powerful psychological coping mechanism.
So it's an incredible testament to the mind's capability for
self preservation and extreme situations. So when individuals are pushed

(45:38):
to the absolute limits, facing overwhelming threats, profound isolation, and
severe psychological deprivation, the human psyche activates deep seated defense
strategies to maintain its integrity. It also fatilitative facilitates boy
I couldn't save, facilitates for a second, Jason, facilitates survival. Now,

(46:03):
the creation of an external benevolent presence is theorized to
be one such ingenious mechanism. So I was saying, it
may be just created by your brain, real or not real.
It has helped me throughout my life right well, and
the only oscars I think we you know, said it

(46:24):
probably best just a little bit ago perception. You know,
it's however you perceive it.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
It's how it helps you.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
So you know, if you perceive it as an angel,
then it's an angel, you know, it's it's it's all
in your perception. Yeah, doesn't matter what anybody else calls.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Could be that little red demon with a pitchfork on
one shoulder and a little angel on the end and
little angel on the other one. Yeah, that's the one.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Ice balls at you.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
You can do it, you do it, do it, do it, noude,
don't do that on jumping the hole, jumping the hole.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
Through my eyes.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yes. So, in dire circumstances, the mind is under a
lot of strain factors like sleep, deprivation, dehydration, starvation, extreme coldness.
Now that's another one. Lack of oxygen can significantly impair

(47:34):
cogenitive functions, so leading to confusion and disorientation. But the
third man appears to counter all these debilitating effects by
providing a psychological anchor, and it alleviates the crushing burden
of loneliness and despair. It's as if the brain, in

(47:57):
its desperate attempt to keep the individual going, projects its
own adaptive capabilities outward, making an internal struggle feel like
a shared journey with a supportive companion. So this coping
mechanism serves several vital functions that are directly linked to survival. Firstly,

(48:19):
it reduces the psychological impact of isolation, which can be
as deadly as physical elements. The perception of a benevolent
companion provides immense comfort and emotional support, preventing the individual
from succumbing to despair and giving up the fight.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
You know, No, we haven't talked about when time goes
in slow motion, but that is a crazy thing. Have
you ever had that something happened and it seems like
everything slows down?

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah? I have.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
But you're following and you're like, there's a five minute,
two second fold. Yeah, just gonna say something. I forgot
what I was gonna say, sorry, Jason. So it just
helps the person not give up on life. And I

(49:17):
think when people give up on life, it's over well,
especially in those kind of circumstances. Yeah, because I mean
you're you're in a point where you're exhausted. I mean,
we'll just take, uh, the one guy that was hanging
for days bas forearm and ended up dehydration and everything

(49:43):
and ended up cutting his day arm off right yea
with a dull knife.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, there's always hope.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
When you get to that point of despair, it's easy
to just give up and then the body will give up.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Yeah. The I'm just going to take this for example,
if you've got a disease and you have given up
on this and you're not fighting it no more. It's
gonna take over and it's gonna get you. But your
mind can heal your body if you put your mind

(50:20):
to it. And meditation is the key. I believe to this.
But I think you can heal your own body. I've
seen it happen. There was one guy that was on
coast to coast a lot, and he was I had
all kinds of heart problems and blood problems, and and

(50:42):
he would meditate and he healed himself eventually. But he
was talking to Art Bell along the way and he
was just getting you know, better and better. I think
self healing is is real. I think your mind if
if if you let your mind work the way it's

(51:04):
supposed to, I believe it can heal you.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (51:10):
What do you think?

Speaker 3 (51:11):
No? I mean why not? I mean I've seen some
crazy stuff like these guys way up in the Andes
and stuff, these monks and it's sub zero outside, completely
douse themselves with water, get into a meditative state, and literally,

(51:33):
within like thirty minutes, they raise their body temperature so
much that they dry their clothes, dry their clothes.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
It's pretty crazy.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Well, I mean it just shows that like we said
at the beginning of this up, the human brain is
something that we know really nothing about. They're trying, but
we don't really know anything about it. And with that
being said, you know, I like you. I think that
if you believe something enough, you won't hear me say

(52:05):
this much because I don't really talk about the Bible
or anything. But there's some truth in some of the words.
And it literally says, if you have the faith of
a mustard seed, you can tell the about to move,
and it has to move. But I think that that
is could mean anything that you interpret it to mean. Right,

(52:29):
So I think that whatever that mountain is in your life,
you can tell it to move and it has to move.
So if it's cancer, if it's whatever it is, it's faith.
You have to firmly believe in your mind that it's
going to happen. Now, you could put any context on

(52:50):
that that you want. Because again we go back to
what only Oscars and stuff was saying earlier, that's your perception.
So with your perception and your faith, whatever those look
like in your life, if you have that faith, then
you can do whatever you want. Yeah, it's all able

(53:10):
to be done. Sorry, I'll get off the soap box
preaching is over.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
So this survival trick often acts as an externalized source
of guidance and motivation. When logical thought is impaired by exhaustion,
the perceived instructions or encouragement from the unseen entity can
provide concrete direction and a renewed sense of purpose. It

(53:43):
allows the individual to tap into deep reserves of the
strength and resonance that my otherwise remain dormant.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
Roy gave us two thumbs up.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
So essentially the minds the mind projects projects its own
adaptive salit and motivational imperatives onto an external figure, making
it easier to accept.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
So, I don't know. It could be a bunch of things.
I believe it's got a lot to do with your
brain now, yep, I do I do?

Speaker 3 (54:22):
And how you perceive life and everything else?

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Right?

Speaker 3 (54:26):
And I think that that it all comes in at
the very end and tells you, wake up, we want
you to live, you don't want to die. Let's do
what we need to do now. I do find those
parts of it where they were going across places and
this external voice was guiding them to miss crevices and

(54:53):
and things like that. That only shows a different view
of everything too. They're able to see whatever it is
that's telling them to do these things, telling them to
miss this crevice, to go here, to go there, to
do whatever it is that they're doing. Can see things

(55:15):
outside of themselves, different spatial awareness to everything, Yeah, which
is pretty cool. It's hard to get there once a
disease is present, but there's always hope, there is, there is.

(55:41):
I think it's easy to talk about when it when
it comes to you know, being able to say something
and to bring it into fruition to manifest whatever it
is that you're wanting to manifest, whether it's wealth, love, happiness,

(56:07):
anything that it is that you're trying to manifest. Good health. Uh,
it's easy to talk about. It's harder to do because
if everybody could do it, everybody would be doing it.
Because it takes you to, like Jason said, calm your mind,

(56:29):
be able to get into that meditat meditation state and
and and see yourself as healed, breed all the bad
energy out and all the good energy, and you might
become one with the couch.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Can't stress enough how believing and hope will get you
through absolutely, And you know there's survival stories of all kind.
For that, you know that that just believing in hope
and hoping for something else. That that it got them
through tons of other stories besides, you know these type

(57:15):
that we were talking about tonight.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
So let's go over. We went over the scientific beliefs.
It's all, you know, neurological, so spiritual beliefs. For many
individuals who experience this uh and for those who hear
their compelling accounts, the most immediate and profound explanation is

(57:44):
often spiritual or supernatural. Given the highly improbable nature of
survival in many of these scenarios, coupled with the benevolent,
guiding and often life saving nature of the perceived present,
it is deeply understandable. It's deeply understandable that survivors might

(58:08):
attribute their experiences to divine intervention, the presence of guardian angels,
or the spiritual guidance of a deceased loved one. So
this interpretation resonates deeply with individuals who already hold spiritual
or religious beliefs, providing a powerful affirmation of their faith right. So,

(58:35):
from a spiritual perspective, the third man is seen as
a tangible manifestation of a higher power or a spiritual
helper since specifically to aid the individual in their moment
of greatest need. Roy says, if it's not your time,
God will not let you die, and if it's your time,
God will not let you live. It's that simple.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Chill says, you have to align yourself. Aligning yourself is
also key.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
The overwhelming feeling of comfort of the precise guidance and
the inexplicable strength often reported by survivors are viewed as
direct evidence of a non physical entity intervening directly with
their worldly ordeal. For a person of faith, this explanation
offers a sense of purpose and reinforces the idea that

(59:30):
they are never truly alone, even when physically isolated, and
that a divine plan or a protective force is actively
at work in their lives. So, the consistency of the
benevolent nature of the third man across the verse accounts,

(59:52):
regardless of the survivor's background or specific religious beliefs, can
be seen by some as evidence of a universal spiritual truth.
While the perceived identity of the entity might vary, it
could be an angel, a spirit guide, a deity, or

(01:00:12):
simply just a presence. The core message of support, hope,
and guidance remains constant. It suggests a common source of
divine assistance in times of extreme vulnerability. So this shared
experience across cultures and belief systems further strengthens the spiritual

(01:00:35):
interpretation for its proponents, highlighting a universal connection for a
higher power.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
Andrew says, I feel like it's harder to get into
that mind frame. It takes a major trauma.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Yep. Yeah, I'm spiritual.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
By the explanation you just said, it's what only Oscar said.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I think everybody really has a little spirituality. They believe in.
They got to believe in themselves a lot of times.
Well do you think people deep down have that? I

(01:01:23):
don't know everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
I don't know, because there is uncontacted tribes that, in
their tribal legends lure the Hoole nine Yards, have no
deities at all, none, none, not one m And so
you can say that we think in the way that

(01:01:46):
we think, right that oh everybody's got this God part
of the brain, right, because that's it's been said. But
when you get to some of these uncontacted tribes that
have none, no spirituality whatsoever, They just live their life

(01:02:07):
they're still hunter gatherers. They go do what it is
that they do. They know that the earth provides, but
there is literally no deities in their language or anything.
So it makes it hard to think that it's something
that's just innate.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
I think in the world we live in right where
we live in places that's got the electricity, and so
we're indoctrinated into this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Saying what you're saying, we have to be brought into
it to have it. Yeah, I do, I thank your eye.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Yeah, but I mean I'm not saying that it's not true.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
Yeah either way, I'm just having to be introduced to
it to know about it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Yes, yeah. Now there's some natives and stuff that have
a lot of spiritual beliefs. You know, they have all
kinds of deities and all kinds of different things. But
there is some that have none, and that has baffled

(01:03:17):
scientists and stuff, because, you know, the going theory for
the longest time was the god part of the brain.
It's just innate in us. We need it for survival.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
I just wonder if those tribes that don't have any
thing like that, if they have the third person syndrome.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Interesting would they have the willed or the knowing part
of it that there is something else there but and
it's going to help me, right, I don't think that would.
I wouldn't think so.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
But that also doesn't mean that it has to come
from us, you know what I mean? I mean, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
I just had to throw.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
That in.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Free will. Yep, really that's correct, right, free will.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
So I have a great respect for the earth exactly
on the oscars, that's what for them. It's just you know,
our respect the plants and the animals because they give
me subsistence.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Yep, that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
So some would call that spirituality.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Yeah, I guess so. I believe that's our show. That's
all we got.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
I hope everybody liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
It's a little it was a little off, you know, subjects, but.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Not really because I mean it's it's almost in that
realm of in OBEs and and think, is there's something
else in your time and need that can come and
help you, right? Or is it just you? Is it
your mind that's so powerful that it can see things

(01:05:12):
that you can't see because you're in whatever situation that
you're in. You know, I mean so either way, I
think it definitely falls into the paranormal. Oh, thank you, Andrea.
Depth the deep, Yes, the depth, it's so deep that

(01:05:33):
its depth so uh deep. Remember everybody, this Saturday, we
have a guest. Yes, uh, she's gonna she's going to
be on h on the show and let me pull
it up here. Yes, we've we're pretty much booked out

(01:06:00):
in one form or fashion of another for the next
couple of months.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Yeah. So Saturday we're going to have Elena. I don't
know if it's Elena or Elena. We'll have to ask
her that. So she's a quantum healer in life guide,
dedicated to helping individuals heal and navigate their current life paths.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
See does this not kind of go with that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Yeah? So she's going to be join us at eight
o'clock Saturday. That's Eastern time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
Everybody join us.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Yeah. Remember July the twenty sixth is the Smoky Mountain
Bigfoot Conference in Gallenburg. We're going to be there. What
do you think about that? Can't wait? Oh? Also, not
this weekend, but next weekend on June twenty first, we

(01:06:55):
have a great guests Cat come on Paranormal. Paul from
Paranormal among Us podcast. He does a lot of great shows,
and uh, we're going to be interviewing him and we're
going to get some of his uh experiences.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Yeah, because he does some ghost hunting. Yeah, so it'd
be fun. Yeah, h Paranormal Investigator.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Yeah, you have a good night too, Andrea not Andrea,
thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
And Teraryl tell Darryl that you better not have heard himself.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Uh oh yeah, tell me about it. So David's going
to take us out with his fiel. I hope.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
Well you know what, I don't even have the spiel spieled,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
So remember you can find us at man you got it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
You know it, don't you. Thanks everybody, and we'll see
you Saturday.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Yeah, don't miss the show Saturday. It's gonna be good.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
Yeah, it's gonna be great. And remember you can find
us at paranormafore one one dot org, parnumber four one
one on Facebook, YouTube x and rumble. Tune in live
every Thursday from seven to eight pm Eastern Time, also
Saturdays from eight to ten pm. Remember also Saturdays from
ten to eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
If you're in the.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
Metro Atlanta area, you can catch us on w DJYFM.
That's ninety nine point one FM and for listeners outside
of Atlanta, you go to wdjyfm dot com, or you
can go to Paranorma four one one dot org and
click on the link. Now. We're also on Subspace radio
and all major podcast platforms. We have a book out

(01:08:44):
East Tennessee Hauntings and Lore Edition two. It is East
Tennessee Hauntings and Law Edition two. It is available on Amazon,
or you go to Paranorma four one one dot org.
Join us, Join us, so see you guys. Oh X
ray doesn't look good. Thank you only oscars in X ray.

(01:09:07):
Thank you only oscars. Thanks everybody. Have a good night.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Hopefully we'll see you Saturday.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
Yes, see you Saturday.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Have you ever wondered what lurks in the shadows, what
secrets the night hides, what strange phenomena might be happening
just beyond your perception. Join us as we journey into
the world of the paranormal, exploring everything from ghosts and
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(01:09:44):
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