Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Psychology of Romance podcast, where doctor Carlos
discusses the latest research and insight on relationships. Now here's
(00:28):
your host, doctor Carlos.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey, welcome back everybody. Today, we have a great guess,
Doctor Elizabeth Federick. F E, D R I c K.
Can find her over at Instagram at doctor Elizabeth Federick.
You can also find her at doctor Elizabethedrick dot com
and that one was consistent. Pretty good therapist and relationship
expert is what she is. Intimacy, attachment, boundaries, trauma. I'm
going to be talking about all of that on today's
(00:53):
show again. You can find her at doctor Elizabeth Fedrick.
You know what we want, folks picture to share. I've
hit that I like button. You know, we like it
and it's not waste any more time. Welcome to the show,
Doctor Federick.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Welcome, Hello, Carlost, Thank you for having me, I thank.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
You, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
This is a it's always a very popular topic because
it almost everybody's in one, wants to be in one
getting out of one. It just like there's always some
kind of stage you're in. Let me ask you this,
what got you to start focusing on relationships because I
know when we start as a therapist we kind of
get thrown everything. But what if folks do help you?
(01:31):
What motivated you to focus on there? If I can
actually talk today, go ahead, yes, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
So I when I first got into therapy, I was
working with children and adolescents and that was really what
got me into this field.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That's where my passion was.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
And really my passion was about breaking the cycle, like
that was a big thing that I would talk about
a lot. And as I started working with children and adolescents,
the realization that they're primary caregivers, so these individuals that
are really influencing a majority of their life is where
a lot of the issues are actually stemming from. And
(02:05):
so really it was an evolution for me of starting
with that population and then realizing if I can get
to their parents and if I can help their parents
start to make these relational changes, their parents can then
role model that for them and can start showing up
different for their children. And so it was a slow
progression in that way. Attachment theory is my passion, it's
(02:28):
what my dissertation was founded in. So it just all
kind of came together because of that Oh.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Boy, now you've got horneus NESCo in here. So that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I like that parenting.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I think a lot of times parents don't realize how
much communicating they're doing without saying anything, and just a
problem arises in the house, which is almost impossible not
to have one, and how those parents interact during that
crisis shows a lot, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It absolutely does.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
And a lot of that comes from the term that
I talk about a lot our relational programming, and so
the way that our early life experiences really influence what
we come to expect that relationship. The lens that we
look at relationships through that all takes place through our
interactions with our primary caregivers, and so a lot of
times we don't even realize that we're maybe operating in
(03:17):
a maladaptive way or in a way that is not
as effective as it could be. And so by bringing
that awareness to people that hey, you're operating this way
and you think it's normal because of how you were raised,
because of the foundation that was laid. But what if
there's a different perspective, What if we could do it differently?
What would that mean for your children? What would that
(03:37):
mean for your romantic relationships. What would that mean for
your life in general?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
That's a great point. It's funny. I used to always
say to my classes.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I'd say, hey, you know, if you want to see
what your significant other's parents are like, you can kind
of tell in moments of crisis and.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
You don't have to look too far.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
You unfortunately not let me ask you this. How does
try fit in here?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So I know you work with that as well, and
we're going to cover a lot of different areas today, folks, Well,
how does trauma fit in? If somebody's IPv, maybe the child,
the child's witness ie PV, it's a been partner violence
for out there, not growing acronyms like crazy, But how
does that fit in this whole thing?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Yeah, so that does really tie into the relational programming
as well, because these consistent experiences we have throughout our upbringing,
they also set the stage for our nervous system and
for are the way that.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
We keep ourselves safe.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
And so there's this term adaptive child, which is that
in childhood we develop adaptive behaviors to stay safe. And
so that might mean that we avoid scary conversations. So
if we grow up in a home there's domestic violence,
we might we might stay safe by avoiding it. We
might stay safe by intervening and trying to like calm
(04:52):
things down, or by trying to appease a certain parent
so that they.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Don't get reactive.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
We figure out though early on, what do we need
to do to stay the safest possible, and then we
take these experiences with us into adulthood, and unfortunately, what
was adaptive at one point becomes maladaptive often in our
adult relationships, when we start avoiding or we start fawning
or people pleasing. But that is really the impact of trauma,
(05:21):
is that these experiences we have early on, we have
to learn how to adapt to them, We have to
learn how to stay safe. And then we often take
those tendencies, those skills that were skills at one time,
we take them with us into adulthood, and so it
still shows up and if we don't work to resolve it.
The other way we see trauma coming up is that
(05:43):
the way we're triggered by our partners, the way that
we're triggered in relationship is often directly correlated to those
childhood traumas as well.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Fascinating always reminds me of a story. I don't think
I've shared this one. I don't think I've shared that
with my audience for if I ever have. I remember
it was a client I had a while year ago,
probably eight or nine years ago at least, and I
remember there was a couple or five years married or
something like that. I can't remember, and I asked her
just to make the short story, I asked her, you know,
how do you how did your parents deal with with
(06:12):
arguments in conflict?
Speaker 4 (06:13):
And she said they would yell and scream. I said,
what would you do as a child, and she goes usually.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I ran into my room a couple of minutes later
to the conversation I was asking them. I said, well,
in the last argument, what would you do?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I asked the husband?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And then I went back to the wife and I said,
what did you do when he has When you guys
get into an argument. I run into my room and
I said, oh, that's interesting. I said, do you see
the connection? And she said no, which was amazing. Yeah,
she said no, she said no. She said no even
after and the husband looked at me with like deer
in the headlight, kind of looked like, how does she
(06:45):
miss that? So It was kind of funny because it
seemed to me like her brain was almost like, now
you're not going to go there.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Yeah, rejecting it because sometimes that's too much right for
them to really tap into it. That can feel too
overwhelming to go back to that. But your story is
a great point of Really the foundation of the work
that I do is always around awareness. So whether I'm
doing any type of therapy, coaching, any type of my.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Book starts there.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
That I said, let you know is out next month,
All of that is starts in awareness because when we
can become aware of those childhood experiences, we.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Can hopefully make the parallel.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
We can draw the correlation to present day, and that's
where the change really begins when we see where it
comes from.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Absolutely, when is your book coming out again.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
It comes out I don't have an exact date in April,
and it is about the relationship experts, journey from trauma,
defining her truth and so it really ties a lot
of this in of starting in the trauma of my childhood,
how it impacted my relationships and then really then what
I talk about a lot today of how to get
on the other side of that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I don't you kind of give me a little bit
of a taste of neurobiology there earlier on are you
familiar with doctor Shor's work? Then with attachment as well?
Doctor Alan was a little bit.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Oh, he just read a couple of books. He was
a big action a couple books are he were about
tenel He.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Read a lot of books on neurobiology and attachment theory,
and he was looking at the neuroscience of it. So
I was just kind of curious. Didn't mean to catch.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Up, Kirk, but no, no, no, But yeah, that's that is
that I don't I'm not familiar with him specifically, but
that is a lot of what I do and a
lot of what I talk about is the neurobiology really
does matter. And in adulthood, when we get triggered and
we get activated, so many adults are like, what's wrong
with me? That?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Why am I acting this way?
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Why can't I get a better grasp on it, without
realizing truly that the way that the brain fires is
the way that it wires.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And so if it.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Fired one way in childhood over and over and over,
it wired that way. And so that's what's going on
for you present day.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Makes you've been more impressive, Doctor Fedrick. Did you even read
the book and he's still hitting all the points? So Richard,
very good. Doctor Elizabeth Fabric Folks, you can find her
over at Instagram as well as doctor Elizabeth Federick at
well dodtor Elizabethebrick dot com fd ri c K heading
over to because you know in your Instagram it's kind
of cool because you covered a lot of different areas you, Carl,
(09:14):
you talk about taking care of yourself, your mental health, uh,
signs of feelings safe, but also the stages before you
get into relationship. How do you start conversations with individuals?
How do you get to know somebody better? This is
always kind of a friend one in today's world. I'm
a little I'm older, I'm sure than you. I'm fifty one,
so I'm kind of from the friends age, the generation
(09:35):
which is still.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Pretty popular today.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, and dating was difficult then and dating is difficult now.
What do you say to individuals who I just can't
meet anybody, Doc.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
What do I do?
Speaker 5 (09:46):
I say that because of the influence of dating apps
and social media and that all of this, we have
so many options and it creates decision fatigue. And I'm
right there in the dating world. I'm on the dating apps,
I'm there on social media, so I am right there
with my clients who are going through this process, and
I understand what.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
That feels like.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
And I believe because of that, it's created a belief
for us that there's got to be this perfect partner
out there because there's so many options. There's just like
never ending options, and so we're going to keep looking
for that greener grass over and over and over. And
so a big place of where I start with my
clients is that we have to stop looking for the
perfect partner instead for the good enough partner, just in
(10:28):
the same way we need the good enough parent. Like
none of us are going to be perfect, but we
need somebody who can show up consistently in the way
that we need. And so that's often where I start
because I don't know, you know, when you work with
your clients on that, but it's like because they weren't perfect,
because they didn't have this one factor, you know, it's
(10:50):
it's a bust, Like I got to move on from it.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
That's such a great point because we've gone to such
extremes in life, We've gone to an extreme level I'm
never leaving this person to z always this grass is
always greener on somebody else's lawn. But as too many lawns,
as you mentioned, and it gets really problematic, and how
do you kind of balance that out?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Yeah, so I do an activity. It's five needs, five wants,
and five boundaries. I help my clients work to identify
what are their needs, what are their non negotiables, and
we stick with five because we could come up with
a list of ten thousand, but what are our top
five priorities. Of these are non negotiables, and then we
do our five wants, and these are our preferences. And
(11:29):
so if these needs are met, then these are the
things maybe somebody has an active lifestyle or somebody who
doesn't have children or you know, these these things that
won't create resentments that they don't exist, but it's something
we want. And then five boundaries, so these are deal breakers.
So maybe it is somebody that does have kids, or
(11:49):
somebody that doesn't have a job, or you know, identifying
what are those things that we cannot be okay with.
And when we develop that list and they start dating,
we have something to reference back to. So when they say, yeah,
but you know their favorite restaurant is, you know, a
Mexican restaurant, and I really like Italian. Okay, that's not
(12:10):
on your needs or your once or your boundaries, so
that's probably not relevant.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I've heard that comed It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
This isn't to be contrarian, but just kind of I'm
probably thinking, like students are going to be asking these questions,
clients are going to be asking these questions, and I
know somebody is going to be sitting there going yeah,
but you know, you always get the app buttes, which
is perfectly fine, makes us think that way. I guess
they're gonna say, yeah, but doctor Federick, that's not romantic.
It's all systematic. You know, I'm not trying to buy
a new car.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
What do you say to that, I say that it
can be romantic, And unfortunately, a lot of times when
we experience what we identify as chemistry or butterflies, it
actually is a trauma response, and so it's our nervous
system having a reaction to something that is really like
familiar or something that so in the same way that
(13:08):
when you go on a roller coaster you get that butterfly,
your stomach has that response to it. But you can't
live your life on a roller coaster, and the ups
and downs of the roller coaster would get really exhausting
over time. And so I talk a lot with my
clients about that. Yes, we do, of course want a
romantic element of any relationship, and that can be built
(13:30):
over time. You know, instead of focusing on falling in love,
shift the focus to growing in love. And that's a
big difference that makes it a lot more sustainable versus
this you know, hot and heavy fast, but then it
often fizzles out or really implodes, because when a relationship
has that much chemistry to it, there's often more going on.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
That's awesome, it's a great, great answer. It kind of
makes me think, do you think it's being Do you
think society like movies and TV shows have influence how
we perceive love and relationship?
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Absolutely, because these these false expectations, even when we look
at wrong comms that have been around forever, but there's
these expectations around how we should feel with a partner,
and so that's what we're all basing it on instead
of No, probably most of the time might be a
little mundane and it might be boring, and it's you know,
not that exciting. But it's really the safety, the connection,
(14:24):
the security.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
The consistency.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Those are the different elements that are needed to grow
a life with somebody, not not what the rom coms
are suggesting we need.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, it's interesting looking at studies and social psych when
you look at married a couple's decade after decade, their
priorities starts shifting because the relationship starts shifting. So instead
of being that intimacy and passion initially, maybe switches more
to intimacy and just being there right as long as
you're in the same room. It's okay. It's kind of
interesting how that works well.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
And intimacy, I believe is such a crucial co oponent
of all relationships. But I think where we often miss
the mark with that is that intimacy is often focused
on physical intimacy or it is focused on what we
think is like the chemistry piece. And really, when I
talk about intimacy, it is emotional. It is physical, intellectual, experiential, spiritual.
(15:17):
There are so many facets to intimacy, and when we
can foster all of those, that's when we can really
you know, roll together, if that's what we so choose.
But I think that's the other element of this as well,
is that often we put relationships in a box and
for some people growing all together is not the objective.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
And that's okay too.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
That's a interesting point. Yeah, how about communications styles? I
guess it's kind of a prelude to my question. I
know it's a big question, so maybe I'll toss it
out there. You can kind of start playing with it.
Which is always opposites attract But I know, remember I
can't remember it was doctor Warren. I think it was
was either doctor Warren, Neil Warren or it was Gotman
that talked about well, according to our studies, actually people
(16:01):
have the most similarities, do starty about that way, how
the most similarities do better than people who have a
lot of differences because you know, I don't like doing
things together with her because she doesn't.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Like to do what I like to do.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Yeah, which is actually that I see that actually a
lot more that the compatibility is actually a lot more important.
So the opposite attracts thing, Yes, that is often people
believe because it creates the balance and all of those things.
But if you are too far on opposite sides of
the spectrum, all it does is create conflict, and so
(16:34):
the compatibility of having similar world views and similar morals
and ethics and values, and that is often where a
couple is going to thrive together because not everything becomes
conflict or combat, but rather it's like you're on the
same page. You know, you're in the boat, in the
boat rowing the same direction together versus trying to go
(16:54):
opposite directions.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And do you have like I don't know if you
systematize it or not, but do you have like a
list of said needs earlier about your top five needs?
Is there's like top four or five things you should
probably have in common because I know sometimes religion if
you have two different opposing religions and in the minute
you have kids, a lot of things happen at that point.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Yeah, I mean religion, politics, views around finance, finances, so
you're you know, the way you spend your money, should
you save your money, all of those things.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
I actually have a post that are things to consider
before you commit, and I go down about probably close
to ten things that on family planning. Do you want
kids or do you not want kids? But when we
talk about the top few, I think you're right Religion, politics, finances,
those are often the ones that you really do want
to be on the same page with.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
It's a beautiful segue to doctor Elizabeth fedrick over on Instagram.
Definitely check out those posts. A lot of great stuff
in there, and she really doesn't just give you like
one or two words, folks.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
She goes pretty.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Deep dive into these things, which is great.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
She has a lot to say it.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
She said the way where you are sponsored by tight
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Speaker 4 (18:16):
Back to this.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So that's interesting. I'm thinking toy the top of my
head now. The finance one is amazing because I don't
know about you and your practice in what you've encountered
or experienced. I'm sure it's similar. It's it's amazing how
many clients have no clue what each other makes, how
much they spend, and it's like, really, you have no
(18:38):
idea you're bringing how much do you bring in a month?
I don't know how much are you spending I don't know. Okay, okay,
got work to do, because then there's issued, right, that's incredible.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
There's a lot of issues and often, yeah, they don't
know those things about each other.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I've noticed that a lot with my work with couples.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
There's a lot of things that couples don't talk about,
you know, when their physical intimacy, their values, they're morals,
their beliefs about things like there's a lot that people
don't talk about during the dating stage. But then I'm
also quite dumbfounded when I find out even people have
been together for years, there's still things that they don't
(19:16):
dig deep into, which you wonder, how can you really
develop true intimacy when everything a service level.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I think that's where we probably run into a lot
of issues.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, I think the.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
First time I really hit me how bad it was
at certain points it was this place called the Wooden Floor.
It's over in Orange County in California, and they work
with poor families, so you had to make lesson four.
I think it was less than thirty thousand those a
few years ago, less than thirty thousand family of four.
But the neat thing about them is when the students
came there. It was a dance studio, but they also
had tutorings to help the students. So the first they
had to go through tutoring on any subjects they were
(19:47):
having problems with, and they started them at age seven
all the way to eleven.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
I'll get to the point real quick, folks.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
And what was interesting is when they were doing that,
when they were doing the dance or the tutoring, the
parents were offered relationship counseling, anger management, conflict resolution accounting.
And I think one of the things that surprised them
was they really didn't know how to balance a budget,
didn't know how much money each person made or how
much they were spending. And she told me, like eighty
percent of them. I'm thinking, holy cow.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, yeah, And that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
And I love that you're talking about that they were
providing also that the relationship insides. One of the most
common comments I get on a lot of my posts
is it's too bad that people didn't teach this to
us in elementary school or in middle school, or you know,
a lot of these communication skills as we're talking about,
or even conflict resolution skills, we aren't taught those things either.
(20:38):
And so we're just out here figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
But it goes back to your point, that's the parents
responsibility because they are modeling it.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
And if the parents don't know, how can they teach
it right? And if they don't have and especially when
we think about so the example you're giving of the
individuals who are probably utilizing those services when they're in
crisis mode and we're thinking about hierarchy needs and they're
just trying to feed their families. The thought is not
how do I learn new communication skills, It's how do
(21:06):
I make sure my kids are fed?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And so I do have a lot of empathy for
that that there.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Are times when it just their crisis mode is too
overwhelming to them put efforts into this other area. But
the unfortunate part is then that does get passed down
generationally and at some point we do we have to
break the cycle.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yeah, absolutely, you do. You have to.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
And by the way, folks, I don't know if you're
wooden floors.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
It's really amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
It didn't give them enough credit because every single student
that ever went through their program is still going on.
One hundred percent graduated high school and one hundred percent
went to college.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I mean the numbers were staggering.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's really neat.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, it was incredible stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I guess now we're hitting if you have kids in
the room under a certain age, you might want to
maybe turn it down. We're going to head over to sex.
Just kind of warn you for a second. This is
an interesting component is a lot of therapists won't want
to tye. Maybe they feel uncomfortable going there. Maybe they
don't know how to address it because it isn't an
area that is very sensitive obviously, and if there's two
(22:08):
people who are not compatible for whatever reason, maybe one
likes it more often than another certain ways, whatever it is,
What are some of the things you're seeing in regards
to relationships and sex? And I'll keep it in two
different degrees. We'll look at it in non marital situations.
Maybe somebody's been together for a couple of years and
then marriage, somebody who's like ten or fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
You know, how do you keep that going? But how
does that work? What do you say for that?
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Yeah, So going back to what we were just talking
about a few minutes ago, that has been one of
the most fascinating discoveries that I've had in my work
as a couple's counselor is that when we talk about things,
people don't talk about They don't talk about their sex life.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
So whether they have.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Been are newly into a relationship, there's not conversations around
what makes you feel safe, what do you like? What
are your preferences? How can I please you? And then furthermore,
couples who've been married for ten point years are also
not having these conversations. And to your point, a lot
of that comes with there's discomfort, it's uncomfortable, it's awkward.
(23:09):
There could also be maybe shaming aspects from their childhood
around it, and so there's a lot of beliefs. I mean,
sex is a very controvers controversial topic and there's a
lot of beliefs around it. But that is what I
have found to be the biggest barrier and also the
biggest solution is that when they're not talking about it,
(23:30):
there's almost always disconnect. And then when they do start
talking about it, and we don't just jump into talking
about it, we really set the stage. I'm a big
proponent of weekly check ins for couples, and that's where
they start just having intentional conversation because a lot of
couples don't. They are often ships passing in the night.
They don't stop to really connect or have conversation. So
(23:52):
we lay a groundwork of safety, of learning how to
talk to each other in a safe way, and then
we start to incorporate in now let's talk about your
sex life, which makes people very squirmy, but also we
see great outcomes from just talking about it.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's fascinating. You hit all the great points, Yeac, They're
all so true. And it's interesting because I don't know.
I'm a big MMA fan and wondering how did that
get in here?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
But I know it's just gonna say that is an
interesting transition.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Let's see what happens. Right.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
But guys, this is where I get it from a lot,
because I know when I interview MMA guys and another
podcast that we do, they always come to the same comments,
especially the black belt instructors. They always say, guys, for
some reason, think you're supposed to be born with knowing
how to fight, and they think they know how to
fight when they don't.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
And this is how it transitioned in I think she
already figured this.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
One, but I think males and females sometimes think I
should know how to do sech I should have to
be able to do it. And I don't know if
it's because of maybe pornography giving them the wrong impression,
society giving them wrong impression, peer pressure, whatever it may be.
But sometimes I get that vibe when I was working
in that area. You can say kind of see like
I mean, I supposed to just know it, right.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I have so many male clients say that.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
But if I ask her what she likes, and that
means I don't know what I'm doing, or then that
means I'm not good at it. And my response to
that is because one person likes vanilla ice cream doesn't
mean that the other. You know, somebody else is gonna
want talk about ice cream, and somebody else is gonna
want strawberry. And just because you don't know that doesn't
mean doesn't make you bad at it. But what if
(25:28):
you're actually worried about not pleasing your partner, then just
don't ask. But if your goal is really I want
them to think I'm good at this, then you've got
to ask the questions because otherwise there's no way for
you to know. And then on the flip side of that,
females have become so accustomed. The statistics are that eighty
percent of females fake orgasms or have faked an orgasm.
(25:51):
And so when you think about eighty percent of the
female population feeling the obligation to do that, that's telling
you something. So the man is potential not trying to
figure out and obviously we're talking hetero relationships. There's complexities here,
but the male is afraid of they're going to feel
insecured to ask, so they don't. So then the female
(26:12):
will fake the response because they feel insecure if they don't.
And so now nobody's actually receiving real pleasure. It's just
having sex for the sake of having sex, which it
could be a lot better than that. So I often
say let's put the focus on pleasure over performance, because
that's really when true intimacy happens.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Well, that's statistic unsettled. A lot of guys out.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
There point you to be asked questions tonight.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm gonna get a lot of comments on this one
before we go up. Moving out of this area, and
you're bringing kids back in a minute. As you get older,
that's a challenge too. Some people say it's been twenty.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Years thirty years.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Is it true that people lose the passion or does
it just have to be different or is it communication?
What's going on there?
Speaker 5 (26:58):
I mean it is lost when it's not tended to.
So anything that is not taken care of is going
to start to unravel. And so the same thing comes
with our intimacy and absolutely because our brains are they
crave novelty. And so when you're with the same person, yes,
there is the tendency that it could get boring. However,
(27:19):
this is not You're not powerless to this, Like what
have you done recently to find new positions or to
try new things or to experiment, Like when you start
to bring back in novelty, you can create excitement around it.
But if you're doing the same position for twenty years,
then yeah, I expect it to be born because that
is boring.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
By the way to phrase that is there.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I would end it with that.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Doctor Elizabeth Fredrick fd r c K can find her
at doctor Elizabeth Frederick on Instagram and doctor Elizabethederick dot com.
Now we're shifting bring the kids back, So we talked
a little bit about that. The other thing that I
noticed too, is what can we get these.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
You talk about.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Intimacy earlier, so I want to kind of expand on it.
But intimacy has a lot of dimensions to it. I'm thinking,
is it really important for couples and clients, couples to
get out and take a walk around the park, to
go hiking, go to the beach wherever you live. I
guess it depends on where you're living, take a walk
around the block. How important is it to have these
(28:21):
quiet times together?
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Yes, And that is exactly where the check ins come
in that I suggest because oftentimes we are so busy,
We're raising kids, we have jobs, we have animals, you know,
all of these things that it's really easy to put
off that one on one time together in that connection.
But intimacy, relational intimacy is really about closeness, and intimacy
(28:45):
is and when we think about even emotional intimacy, that
is the glue that holds a relationship together and so
it has to be taken care of. And so with
that earlier, the five different elements of intimacy that I
mentioned that I encourage couples to work together to really
identify which of those levels, which of those types of
intimacy are most important to them. So for me, intellectual
(29:08):
intimacy is the most important to me. Like if I'm
going on a date, I want to go to a
museum or a theater. That is what's going to help
me to feel connected to my partner. And so having
that awareness around what means the most to you in
that way, you can foster that and you can spend
more time with it. But absolutely to your point that
if we're not being intentional and we're not sitting aside
time to connect, it's not just going to happen. And
(29:32):
we what what does not happen is you don't stay
in a plateau, you actually start to disconnect. So it's
not like I'm not making time for it. So we're
just staying at as quo. No, you are going to
start to unravel very quickly.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That's a great point, great point, And I know we
got a few minutes left. We got about five or
six minutes left here. The interesting thing too, is you
brought up kids. That's going to be another component to it, right,
that's I don't know how many couples you work with
your families in that capacity, but that changes the ballgame,
and it changes in so many ways from when they're
six months old adolescens, and then when they're gone that
(30:10):
impacts you too, with the empty ness of oh, hey,
you're my husband or my wife, I forget about you
kind of thing. Can tell us little bit about that.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Yeah, And that is exactly why it's so important that
we are fostering the intimacy throughout the span, because that,
I mean, as you know, happens so commonly that when
children are no longer the distraction. I even encourage couples
to realize when they sit down at dinner together, they
finally get a date night, they sit down, what are
they talking about. If all they're talking about is the children,
(30:39):
If that's all that they have to talk about, that
is a really good indication that we are disconnected at
that point, because when you have that alone time, yes,
there's things you have to work out logistically with your kids,
but let's go deeper than that. Let's talk about your
hopes and your dreams and your fears and what you're
looking forward to, your passions, your excitements. And when that's
not a topic of conversation for a couple anymore, we
(31:03):
have to do some work around that because otherwise.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
When they are empty nesters, then what are you doing?
What are you talking about?
Speaker 5 (31:10):
So being aware of that throughout the span and also
creates such a much better partnership to deal with the
stressors of children, because as we know, they are stressful.
So if you have somebody you feel connected with and
in partnership with, that makes the whole process so much easier.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Great, She's got great succinct answers. So I can ask
you two more questions. I think let's try to sneak Amen.
How about trying to figure how to phrase this an
indirect way of improving your relationship. And what I mean
by that is how important is it for them to
still maintain their own identity? In other words, I do
the mixed martial arts on the side. My wife can
(31:50):
do something else.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Is she does dance? I think it is. I know
what it is that what am I saying? She does dance.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
What's important is that for somebody to be able to
do things apart like that keep their independence.
Speaker 5 (32:03):
I guess I love that you bring that up because
that is also that ties into what we're talking about.
Like when you go to dinner together, you get to
talk about your MMA stuff and your wife gets to
talk about dance.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
You guys have no, you guys don't do that.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Go ahead, I like the idea though you would.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
So when we think about codependency is such a buzzworth
these days, and that is just the enmeshment of couples
and that they don't have their own their own activities,
their own hobbies. What we're really striving for is interdependence.
And interdependence is that you have your life, I have
my life, and together we have our life. And so
you get to go do your martial arts, I get
(32:40):
to go do my dance, and then we get to
come together and do the things we enjoy together. But
we have in order to really maintain your identity and
to be interesting to your partner, because if your partner
knows everything about you and you're together twenty four seven,
let's go back to the novelty piece. That's not all
that interesting. So there's value for it in a lot
of reasons. It really does help the relationship. But then
(33:02):
for each individual, those hobbies are so important for you
to maintain your own identity.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Especially with kids, you start losing yourself in that world.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, and I guess my last question A lot of
the principles you've given us to day, which a lot
of great stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
They seem to be universal in Manilbirds.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
They can apply to the LGBTQ community as well. As
we mentioned earlier, we'll see we're talking about HETEROSEXU.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
But doesn't have to be like that, right, Yeah, And.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
When I'm talking when I was talking about the male female,
when it came to the sex life portion, that was
more of the heatero part.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
The rest of it.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
Absolutely, I have clients from every orientation, from every lifestyle
from you know that it is very inclusive because at
the end of the day, all humans desire safety and
connection and healthy intimacy, no matter what your orientation.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
That's Interrue'm trying to think. I'm trying to see if
my classes any questions. They popped up a lot. I
think one of them was a difference. Does it make
a difference? Somebody said, she think she's twenty five, her
boyfriend's forty. Does it make a difference? Is it too
much going on? What do you think about that?
Speaker 5 (34:11):
I think that it makes a difference if it creates conflict,
if you're not willing to have open conversations around it,
because that is two different generations, so that can be difficult.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
But I don't think I date older men.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
I usually at round ten plus years older as well,
and so I don't feel like that that is created
an issue for me. If anything, it creates opportunity for
more conversation because we have different generations, different upbringings, things
like that. But what does become a difference is if
it turns into a parentified role that is an issue
which is a very common thing, or if it is
(34:46):
just there's there's not a commonality, there's not things to
talk about or to connect about, there's not enough similarities.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Then that will create an issue that could be a
deep dive one for sure. We can spend a whole
show on that one. Yeah, I definitely could bring it back.
Doctor Elizabeth Frederick. Folks, you can find her over at
Instagram that's f d R I c K. You can
also find her doctor Elizabethederick dot com. Doctor Frederick. This
was awesome.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Thank you so much for doing.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
This well, thank you, Carlos. This was a great conversation.
I had a lot of fun with you.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
That was great.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
This was a lot of fun. I mean I even
learned a lot of stuff too. Folks, again, go visit
doctor Elizabeth Federick. Wait for her book, so you have
to go check out the instagramuse. I'm sure she's gonna
start pumping the book when it starts coming out or
getting ready to come out, so you don't want to
miss the opportunity to catch that.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
And this is the best place to reach you.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
That website, right, yep, yes, doctor Elizabethederick dot com. That's
the best place.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Awesome, So if you have questions head over there.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
You know what to do. Folks, make sure to share, subscribe,
hit that I Like button, and start visiting doctor Elizabethebrick
dot com.
Welcome to the Psychology of Romance podcast, where doctor Carlos
discusses the latest research and insight on relationships. Now here's
(00:28):
your host, doctor Carlos.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey, welcome back everybody. Today, we have a great guess,
Doctor Elizabeth Federick. F E, D R I c K.
Can find her over at Instagram at doctor Elizabeth Federick.
You can also find her at doctor Elizabethedrick dot com
and that one was consistent. Pretty good therapist and relationship
expert is what she is. Intimacy, attachment, boundaries, trauma. I'm
going to be talking about all of that on today's
(00:53):
show again. You can find her at doctor Elizabeth Fedrick.
You know what we want, folks picture to share. I've
hit that I like button. You know, we like it
and it's not waste any more time. Welcome to the show,
Doctor Federick.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Welcome, Hello, Carlost, Thank you for having me, I thank.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
You, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
This is a it's always a very popular topic because
it almost everybody's in one, wants to be in one
getting out of one. It just like there's always some
kind of stage you're in. Let me ask you this,
what got you to start focusing on relationships because I
know when we start as a therapist we kind of
get thrown everything. But what if folks do help you?
(01:31):
What motivated you to focus on there? If I can
actually talk today, go ahead, yes, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
So I when I first got into therapy, I was
working with children and adolescents and that was really what
got me into this field.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That's where my passion was.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
And really my passion was about breaking the cycle, like
that was a big thing that I would talk about
a lot. And as I started working with children and adolescents,
the realization that they're primary caregivers, so these individuals that
are really influencing a majority of their life is where
a lot of the issues are actually stemming from. And
(02:05):
so really it was an evolution for me of starting
with that population and then realizing if I can get
to their parents and if I can help their parents
start to make these relational changes, their parents can then
role model that for them and can start showing up
different for their children. And so it was a slow
progression in that way. Attachment theory is my passion, it's
(02:28):
what my dissertation was founded in. So it just all
kind of came together because of that Oh.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Boy, now you've got horneus NESCo in here. So that's interesting.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I like that parenting.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I think a lot of times parents don't realize how
much communicating they're doing without saying anything, and just a
problem arises in the house, which is almost impossible not
to have one, and how those parents interact during that
crisis shows a lot, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It absolutely does.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
And a lot of that comes from the term that
I talk about a lot our relational programming, and so
the way that our early life experiences really influence what
we come to expect that relationship. The lens that we
look at relationships through that all takes place through our
interactions with our primary caregivers, and so a lot of
times we don't even realize that we're maybe operating in
(03:17):
a maladaptive way or in a way that is not
as effective as it could be. And so by bringing
that awareness to people that hey, you're operating this way
and you think it's normal because of how you were raised,
because of the foundation that was laid. But what if
there's a different perspective, What if we could do it differently?
What would that mean for your children? What would that
(03:37):
mean for your romantic relationships. What would that mean for
your life in general?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
That's a great point. It's funny. I used to always
say to my classes.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I'd say, hey, you know, if you want to see
what your significant other's parents are like, you can kind
of tell in moments of crisis and.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
You don't have to look too far.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
You unfortunately not let me ask you this. How does
try fit in here?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So I know you work with that as well, and
we're going to cover a lot of different areas today, folks, Well,
how does trauma fit in? If somebody's IPv, maybe the child,
the child's witness ie PV, it's a been partner violence
for out there, not growing acronyms like crazy, But how
does that fit in this whole thing?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
Yeah, so that does really tie into the relational programming
as well, because these consistent experiences we have throughout our upbringing,
they also set the stage for our nervous system and
for are the way that.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
We keep ourselves safe.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
And so there's this term adaptive child, which is that
in childhood we develop adaptive behaviors to stay safe. And
so that might mean that we avoid scary conversations. So
if we grow up in a home there's domestic violence,
we might we might stay safe by avoiding it. We
might stay safe by intervening and trying to like calm
(04:52):
things down, or by trying to appease a certain parent
so that they.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Don't get reactive.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
We figure out though early on, what do we need
to do to stay the safest possible, and then we
take these experiences with us into adulthood, and unfortunately, what
was adaptive at one point becomes maladaptive often in our
adult relationships, when we start avoiding or we start fawning
or people pleasing. But that is really the impact of trauma,
(05:21):
is that these experiences we have early on, we have
to learn how to adapt to them, We have to
learn how to stay safe. And then we often take
those tendencies, those skills that were skills at one time,
we take them with us into adulthood, and so it
still shows up and if we don't work to resolve it.
The other way we see trauma coming up is that
(05:43):
the way we're triggered by our partners, the way that
we're triggered in relationship is often directly correlated to those
childhood traumas as well.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Fascinating always reminds me of a story. I don't think
I've shared this one. I don't think I've shared that
with my audience for if I ever have. I remember
it was a client I had a while year ago,
probably eight or nine years ago at least, and I
remember there was a couple or five years married or
something like that. I can't remember, and I asked her
just to make the short story, I asked her, you know,
how do you how did your parents deal with with
(06:12):
arguments in conflict?
Speaker 4 (06:13):
And she said they would yell and scream. I said,
what would you do as a child, and she goes usually.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I ran into my room a couple of minutes later
to the conversation I was asking them. I said, well,
in the last argument, what would you do?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I asked the husband?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
And then I went back to the wife and I said,
what did you do when he has When you guys
get into an argument. I run into my room and
I said, oh, that's interesting. I said, do you see
the connection? And she said no, which was amazing. Yeah,
she said no, she said no. She said no even
after and the husband looked at me with like deer
in the headlight, kind of looked like, how does she
(06:45):
miss that? So It was kind of funny because it
seemed to me like her brain was almost like, now
you're not going to go there.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Yeah, rejecting it because sometimes that's too much right for
them to really tap into it. That can feel too
overwhelming to go back to that. But your story is
a great point of Really the foundation of the work
that I do is always around awareness. So whether I'm
doing any type of therapy, coaching, any type of my.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Book starts there.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
That I said, let you know is out next month,
All of that is starts in awareness because when we
can become aware of those childhood experiences, we.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Can hopefully make the parallel.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
We can draw the correlation to present day, and that's
where the change really begins when we see where it
comes from.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Absolutely, when is your book coming out again.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
It comes out I don't have an exact date in April,
and it is about the relationship experts, journey from trauma,
defining her truth and so it really ties a lot
of this in of starting in the trauma of my childhood,
how it impacted my relationships and then really then what
I talk about a lot today of how to get
on the other side of that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I don't you kind of give me a little bit
of a taste of neurobiology there earlier on are you
familiar with doctor Shor's work? Then with attachment as well?
Doctor Alan was a little bit.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Oh, he just read a couple of books. He was
a big action a couple books are he were about
tenel He.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Read a lot of books on neurobiology and attachment theory,
and he was looking at the neuroscience of it. So
I was just kind of curious. Didn't mean to catch.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Up, Kirk, but no, no, no, But yeah, that's that is
that I don't I'm not familiar with him specifically, but
that is a lot of what I do and a
lot of what I talk about is the neurobiology really
does matter. And in adulthood, when we get triggered and
we get activated, so many adults are like, what's wrong
with me? That?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Why am I acting this way?
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Why can't I get a better grasp on it, without
realizing truly that the way that the brain fires is
the way that it wires.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And so if it.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Fired one way in childhood over and over and over,
it wired that way. And so that's what's going on
for you present day.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Makes you've been more impressive, Doctor Fedrick. Did you even read
the book and he's still hitting all the points? So Richard,
very good. Doctor Elizabeth Fabric Folks, you can find her
over at Instagram as well as doctor Elizabeth Federick at
well dodtor Elizabethebrick dot com fd ri c K heading
over to because you know in your Instagram it's kind
of cool because you covered a lot of different areas you, Carl,
(09:14):
you talk about taking care of yourself, your mental health, uh,
signs of feelings safe, but also the stages before you
get into relationship. How do you start conversations with individuals?
How do you get to know somebody better? This is
always kind of a friend one in today's world. I'm
a little I'm older, I'm sure than you. I'm fifty one,
so I'm kind of from the friends age, the generation
(09:35):
which is still.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Pretty popular today.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, and dating was difficult then and dating is difficult now.
What do you say to individuals who I just can't
meet anybody, Doc.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
What do I do?
Speaker 5 (09:46):
I say that because of the influence of dating apps
and social media and that all of this, we have
so many options and it creates decision fatigue. And I'm
right there in the dating world. I'm on the dating apps,
I'm there on social media, so I am right there
with my clients who are going through this process, and
I understand what.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
That feels like.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
And I believe because of that, it's created a belief
for us that there's got to be this perfect partner
out there because there's so many options. There's just like
never ending options, and so we're going to keep looking
for that greener grass over and over and over. And
so a big place of where I start with my
clients is that we have to stop looking for the
perfect partner instead for the good enough partner, just in
(10:28):
the same way we need the good enough parent. Like
none of us are going to be perfect, but we
need somebody who can show up consistently in the way
that we need. And so that's often where I start
because I don't know, you know, when you work with
your clients on that, but it's like because they weren't perfect,
because they didn't have this one factor, you know, it's
(10:50):
it's a bust, Like I got to move on from it.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
That's such a great point because we've gone to such
extremes in life, We've gone to an extreme level I'm
never leaving this person to z always this grass is
always greener on somebody else's lawn. But as too many lawns,
as you mentioned, and it gets really problematic, and how
do you kind of balance that out?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
Yeah, so I do an activity. It's five needs, five wants,
and five boundaries. I help my clients work to identify
what are their needs, what are their non negotiables, and
we stick with five because we could come up with
a list of ten thousand, but what are our top
five priorities. Of these are non negotiables, and then we
do our five wants, and these are our preferences. And
(11:29):
so if these needs are met, then these are the
things maybe somebody has an active lifestyle or somebody who
doesn't have children or you know, these these things that
won't create resentments that they don't exist, but it's something
we want. And then five boundaries, so these are deal breakers.
So maybe it is somebody that does have kids, or
(11:49):
somebody that doesn't have a job, or you know, identifying
what are those things that we cannot be okay with.
And when we develop that list and they start dating,
we have something to reference back to. So when they say, yeah,
but you know their favorite restaurant is, you know, a
Mexican restaurant, and I really like Italian. Okay, that's not
(12:10):
on your needs or your once or your boundaries, so
that's probably not relevant.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
I've heard that comed It's interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
This isn't to be contrarian, but just kind of I'm
probably thinking, like students are going to be asking these questions,
clients are going to be asking these questions, and I
know somebody is going to be sitting there going yeah,
but you know, you always get the app buttes, which
is perfectly fine, makes us think that way. I guess
they're gonna say, yeah, but doctor Federick, that's not romantic.
It's all systematic. You know, I'm not trying to buy
a new car.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
What do you say to that, I say that it
can be romantic, And unfortunately, a lot of times when
we experience what we identify as chemistry or butterflies, it
actually is a trauma response, and so it's our nervous
system having a reaction to something that is really like
familiar or something that so in the same way that
(13:08):
when you go on a roller coaster you get that butterfly,
your stomach has that response to it. But you can't
live your life on a roller coaster, and the ups
and downs of the roller coaster would get really exhausting
over time. And so I talk a lot with my
clients about that. Yes, we do, of course want a
romantic element of any relationship, and that can be built
(13:30):
over time. You know, instead of focusing on falling in love,
shift the focus to growing in love. And that's a
big difference that makes it a lot more sustainable versus
this you know, hot and heavy fast, but then it
often fizzles out or really implodes, because when a relationship
has that much chemistry to it, there's often more going on.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
That's awesome, it's a great, great answer. It kind of
makes me think, do you think it's being Do you
think society like movies and TV shows have influence how
we perceive love and relationship?
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Absolutely, because these these false expectations, even when we look
at wrong comms that have been around forever, but there's
these expectations around how we should feel with a partner,
and so that's what we're all basing it on instead
of No, probably most of the time might be a
little mundane and it might be boring, and it's you know,
not that exciting. But it's really the safety, the connection,
(14:24):
the security.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
The consistency.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Those are the different elements that are needed to grow
a life with somebody, not not what the rom coms
are suggesting we need.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, it's interesting looking at studies and social psych when
you look at married a couple's decade after decade, their
priorities starts shifting because the relationship starts shifting. So instead
of being that intimacy and passion initially, maybe switches more
to intimacy and just being there right as long as
you're in the same room. It's okay. It's kind of
interesting how that works well.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
And intimacy, I believe is such a crucial co oponent
of all relationships. But I think where we often miss
the mark with that is that intimacy is often focused
on physical intimacy or it is focused on what we
think is like the chemistry piece. And really, when I
talk about intimacy, it is emotional. It is physical, intellectual, experiential, spiritual.
(15:17):
There are so many facets to intimacy, and when we
can foster all of those, that's when we can really
you know, roll together, if that's what we so choose.
But I think that's the other element of this as well,
is that often we put relationships in a box and
for some people growing all together is not the objective.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
And that's okay too.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
That's a interesting point. Yeah, how about communications styles? I
guess it's kind of a prelude to my question. I
know it's a big question, so maybe I'll toss it
out there. You can kind of start playing with it.
Which is always opposites attract But I know, remember I
can't remember it was doctor Warren. I think it was
was either doctor Warren, Neil Warren or it was Gotman
that talked about well, according to our studies, actually people
(16:01):
have the most similarities, do starty about that way, how
the most similarities do better than people who have a
lot of differences because you know, I don't like doing
things together with her because she doesn't.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Like to do what I like to do.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
Yeah, which is actually that I see that actually a
lot more that the compatibility is actually a lot more important.
So the opposite attracts thing, Yes, that is often people
believe because it creates the balance and all of those things.
But if you are too far on opposite sides of
the spectrum, all it does is create conflict, and so
(16:34):
the compatibility of having similar world views and similar morals
and ethics and values, and that is often where a
couple is going to thrive together because not everything becomes
conflict or combat, but rather it's like you're on the
same page. You know, you're in the boat, in the
boat rowing the same direction together versus trying to go
(16:54):
opposite directions.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And do you have like I don't know if you
systematize it or not, but do you have like a
list of said needs earlier about your top five needs?
Is there's like top four or five things you should
probably have in common because I know sometimes religion if
you have two different opposing religions and in the minute
you have kids, a lot of things happen at that point.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Yeah, I mean religion, politics, views around finance, finances, so
you're you know, the way you spend your money, should
you save your money, all of those things.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
I actually have a post that are things to consider
before you commit, and I go down about probably close
to ten things that on family planning. Do you want
kids or do you not want kids? But when we
talk about the top few, I think you're right Religion, politics, finances,
those are often the ones that you really do want
to be on the same page with.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
It's a beautiful segue to doctor Elizabeth fedrick over on Instagram.
Definitely check out those posts. A lot of great stuff
in there, and she really doesn't just give you like
one or two words, folks.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
She goes pretty.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Deep dive into these things, which is great.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
She has a lot to say it.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
She said the way where you are sponsored by tight
nutrition dot net tighten nutrition dot net. So if you
like to work out and you take protein powders and
stuff like that, I highly recommend check it out dot
tight nutrition dot net and use doctor Carlo's code under
its lowercase and you'll get ten percent off and free shipping.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Back to this.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So that's interesting. I'm thinking toy the top of my
head now. The finance one is amazing because I don't
know about you and your practice in what you've encountered
or experienced. I'm sure it's similar. It's it's amazing how
many clients have no clue what each other makes, how
much they spend, and it's like, really, you have no
(18:38):
idea you're bringing how much do you bring in a month?
I don't know how much are you spending I don't know. Okay, okay,
got work to do, because then there's issued, right, that's incredible.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
There's a lot of issues and often, yeah, they don't
know those things about each other.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I've noticed that a lot with my work with couples.
Speaker 5 (18:54):
There's a lot of things that couples don't talk about,
you know, when their physical intimacy, their values, they're morals,
their beliefs about things like there's a lot that people
don't talk about during the dating stage. But then I'm
also quite dumbfounded when I find out even people have
been together for years, there's still things that they don't
(19:16):
dig deep into, which you wonder, how can you really
develop true intimacy when everything a service level.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I think that's where we probably run into a lot
of issues.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, I think the.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
First time I really hit me how bad it was
at certain points it was this place called the Wooden Floor.
It's over in Orange County in California, and they work
with poor families, so you had to make lesson four.
I think it was less than thirty thousand those a
few years ago, less than thirty thousand family of four.
But the neat thing about them is when the students
came there. It was a dance studio, but they also
had tutorings to help the students. So the first they
had to go through tutoring on any subjects they were
(19:47):
having problems with, and they started them at age seven
all the way to eleven.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
I'll get to the point real quick, folks.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
And what was interesting is when they were doing that,
when they were doing the dance or the tutoring, the
parents were offered relationship counseling, anger management, conflict resolution accounting.
And I think one of the things that surprised them
was they really didn't know how to balance a budget,
didn't know how much money each person made or how
much they were spending. And she told me, like eighty
percent of them. I'm thinking, holy cow.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, yeah, And that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
And I love that you're talking about that they were
providing also that the relationship insides. One of the most
common comments I get on a lot of my posts
is it's too bad that people didn't teach this to
us in elementary school or in middle school, or you know,
a lot of these communication skills as we're talking about,
or even conflict resolution skills, we aren't taught those things either.
(20:38):
And so we're just out here figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
But it goes back to your point, that's the parents
responsibility because they are modeling it.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
And if the parents don't know, how can they teach
it right? And if they don't have and especially when
we think about so the example you're giving of the
individuals who are probably utilizing those services when they're in
crisis mode and we're thinking about hierarchy needs and they're
just trying to feed their families. The thought is not
how do I learn new communication skills, It's how do
(21:06):
I make sure my kids are fed?
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And so I do have a lot of empathy for
that that there.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Are times when it just their crisis mode is too
overwhelming to them put efforts into this other area. But
the unfortunate part is then that does get passed down
generationally and at some point we do we have to
break the cycle.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yeah, absolutely, you do. You have to.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
And by the way, folks, I don't know if you're
wooden floors.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
It's really amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
It didn't give them enough credit because every single student
that ever went through their program is still going on.
One hundred percent graduated high school and one hundred percent
went to college.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I mean the numbers were staggering.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's really neat.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, it was incredible stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I guess now we're hitting if you have kids in
the room under a certain age, you might want to
maybe turn it down. We're going to head over to sex.
Just kind of warn you for a second. This is
an interesting component is a lot of therapists won't want
to tye. Maybe they feel uncomfortable going there. Maybe they
don't know how to address it because it isn't an
area that is very sensitive obviously, and if there's two
(22:08):
people who are not compatible for whatever reason, maybe one
likes it more often than another certain ways, whatever it is,
What are some of the things you're seeing in regards
to relationships and sex? And I'll keep it in two
different degrees. We'll look at it in non marital situations.
Maybe somebody's been together for a couple of years and
then marriage, somebody who's like ten or fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
You know, how do you keep that going? But how
does that work? What do you say for that?
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Yeah, So going back to what we were just talking
about a few minutes ago, that has been one of
the most fascinating discoveries that I've had in my work
as a couple's counselor is that when we talk about things,
people don't talk about They don't talk about their sex life.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
So whether they have.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Been are newly into a relationship, there's not conversations around
what makes you feel safe, what do you like? What
are your preferences? How can I please you? And then furthermore,
couples who've been married for ten point years are also
not having these conversations. And to your point, a lot
of that comes with there's discomfort, it's uncomfortable, it's awkward.
(23:09):
There could also be maybe shaming aspects from their childhood
around it, and so there's a lot of beliefs. I mean,
sex is a very controvers controversial topic and there's a
lot of beliefs around it. But that is what I
have found to be the biggest barrier and also the
biggest solution is that when they're not talking about it,
(23:30):
there's almost always disconnect. And then when they do start
talking about it, and we don't just jump into talking
about it, we really set the stage. I'm a big
proponent of weekly check ins for couples, and that's where
they start just having intentional conversation because a lot of
couples don't. They are often ships passing in the night.
They don't stop to really connect or have conversation. So
(23:52):
we lay a groundwork of safety, of learning how to
talk to each other in a safe way, and then
we start to incorporate in now let's talk about your
sex life, which makes people very squirmy, but also we
see great outcomes from just talking about it.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
That's fascinating. You hit all the great points, Yeac, They're
all so true. And it's interesting because I don't know.
I'm a big MMA fan and wondering how did that
get in here?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
But I know it's just gonna say that is an
interesting transition.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Let's see what happens. Right.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
But guys, this is where I get it from a lot,
because I know when I interview MMA guys and another
podcast that we do, they always come to the same comments,
especially the black belt instructors. They always say, guys, for
some reason, think you're supposed to be born with knowing
how to fight, and they think they know how to
fight when they don't.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
And this is how it transitioned in I think she
already figured this.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
One, but I think males and females sometimes think I
should know how to do sech I should have to
be able to do it. And I don't know if
it's because of maybe pornography giving them the wrong impression,
society giving them wrong impression, peer pressure, whatever it may be.
But sometimes I get that vibe when I was working
in that area. You can say kind of see like
I mean, I supposed to just know it, right.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I have so many male clients say that.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
But if I ask her what she likes, and that
means I don't know what I'm doing, or then that
means I'm not good at it. And my response to
that is because one person likes vanilla ice cream doesn't
mean that the other. You know, somebody else is gonna
want talk about ice cream, and somebody else is gonna
want strawberry. And just because you don't know that doesn't
mean doesn't make you bad at it. But what if
(25:28):
you're actually worried about not pleasing your partner, then just
don't ask. But if your goal is really I want
them to think I'm good at this, then you've got
to ask the questions because otherwise there's no way for
you to know. And then on the flip side of that,
females have become so accustomed. The statistics are that eighty
percent of females fake orgasms or have faked an orgasm.
(25:51):
And so when you think about eighty percent of the
female population feeling the obligation to do that, that's telling
you something. So the man is potential not trying to
figure out and obviously we're talking hetero relationships. There's complexities here,
but the male is afraid of they're going to feel
insecured to ask, so they don't. So then the female
(26:12):
will fake the response because they feel insecure if they don't.
And so now nobody's actually receiving real pleasure. It's just
having sex for the sake of having sex, which it
could be a lot better than that. So I often
say let's put the focus on pleasure over performance, because
that's really when true intimacy happens.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Well, that's statistic unsettled. A lot of guys out.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
There point you to be asked questions tonight.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm gonna get a lot of comments on this one
before we go up. Moving out of this area, and
you're bringing kids back in a minute. As you get older,
that's a challenge too. Some people say it's been twenty.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Years thirty years.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Is it true that people lose the passion or does
it just have to be different or is it communication?
What's going on there?
Speaker 5 (26:58):
I mean it is lost when it's not tended to.
So anything that is not taken care of is going
to start to unravel. And so the same thing comes
with our intimacy and absolutely because our brains are they
crave novelty. And so when you're with the same person, yes,
there is the tendency that it could get boring. However,
(27:19):
this is not You're not powerless to this, Like what
have you done recently to find new positions or to
try new things or to experiment, Like when you start
to bring back in novelty, you can create excitement around it.
But if you're doing the same position for twenty years,
then yeah, I expect it to be born because that
is boring.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
By the way to phrase that is there.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I would end it with that.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Doctor Elizabeth Fredrick fd r c K can find her
at doctor Elizabeth Frederick on Instagram and doctor Elizabethederick dot com.
Now we're shifting bring the kids back, So we talked
a little bit about that. The other thing that I
noticed too, is what can we get these.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
You talk about.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Intimacy earlier, so I want to kind of expand on it.
But intimacy has a lot of dimensions to it. I'm thinking,
is it really important for couples and clients, couples to
get out and take a walk around the park, to
go hiking, go to the beach wherever you live. I
guess it depends on where you're living, take a walk
around the block. How important is it to have these
(28:21):
quiet times together?
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Yes, And that is exactly where the check ins come
in that I suggest because oftentimes we are so busy,
We're raising kids, we have jobs, we have animals, you know,
all of these things that it's really easy to put
off that one on one time together in that connection.
But intimacy, relational intimacy is really about closeness, and intimacy
(28:45):
is and when we think about even emotional intimacy, that
is the glue that holds a relationship together and so
it has to be taken care of. And so with
that earlier, the five different elements of intimacy that I
mentioned that I encourage couples to work together to really
identify which of those levels, which of those types of
intimacy are most important to them. So for me, intellectual
(29:08):
intimacy is the most important to me. Like if I'm
going on a date, I want to go to a
museum or a theater. That is what's going to help
me to feel connected to my partner. And so having
that awareness around what means the most to you in
that way, you can foster that and you can spend
more time with it. But absolutely to your point that
if we're not being intentional and we're not sitting aside
time to connect, it's not just going to happen. And
(29:32):
we what what does not happen is you don't stay
in a plateau, you actually start to disconnect. So it's
not like I'm not making time for it. So we're
just staying at as quo. No, you are going to
start to unravel very quickly.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That's a great point, great point, And I know we
got a few minutes left. We got about five or
six minutes left here. The interesting thing too, is you
brought up kids. That's going to be another component to it, right,
that's I don't know how many couples you work with
your families in that capacity, but that changes the ballgame,
and it changes in so many ways from when they're
six months old adolescens, and then when they're gone that
(30:10):
impacts you too, with the empty ness of oh, hey,
you're my husband or my wife, I forget about you
kind of thing. Can tell us little bit about that.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Yeah, And that is exactly why it's so important that
we are fostering the intimacy throughout the span, because that,
I mean, as you know, happens so commonly that when
children are no longer the distraction. I even encourage couples
to realize when they sit down at dinner together, they
finally get a date night, they sit down, what are
they talking about. If all they're talking about is the children,
(30:39):
If that's all that they have to talk about, that
is a really good indication that we are disconnected at
that point, because when you have that alone time, yes,
there's things you have to work out logistically with your kids,
but let's go deeper than that. Let's talk about your
hopes and your dreams and your fears and what you're
looking forward to, your passions, your excitements. And when that's
not a topic of conversation for a couple anymore, we
(31:03):
have to do some work around that because otherwise.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
When they are empty nesters, then what are you doing?
What are you talking about?
Speaker 5 (31:10):
So being aware of that throughout the span and also
creates such a much better partnership to deal with the
stressors of children, because as we know, they are stressful.
So if you have somebody you feel connected with and
in partnership with, that makes the whole process so much easier.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Great, She's got great succinct answers. So I can ask
you two more questions. I think let's try to sneak Amen.
How about trying to figure how to phrase this an
indirect way of improving your relationship. And what I mean
by that is how important is it for them to
still maintain their own identity? In other words, I do
the mixed martial arts on the side. My wife can
(31:50):
do something else.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Is she does dance? I think it is. I know
what it is that what am I saying? She does dance.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
What's important is that for somebody to be able to
do things apart like that keep their independence.
Speaker 5 (32:03):
I guess I love that you bring that up because
that is also that ties into what we're talking about.
Like when you go to dinner together, you get to
talk about your MMA stuff and your wife gets to
talk about dance.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
You guys have no, you guys don't do that.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Go ahead, I like the idea though you would.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
So when we think about codependency is such a buzzworth
these days, and that is just the enmeshment of couples
and that they don't have their own their own activities,
their own hobbies. What we're really striving for is interdependence.
And interdependence is that you have your life, I have
my life, and together we have our life. And so
you get to go do your martial arts, I get
(32:40):
to go do my dance, and then we get to
come together and do the things we enjoy together. But
we have in order to really maintain your identity and
to be interesting to your partner, because if your partner
knows everything about you and you're together twenty four seven,
let's go back to the novelty piece. That's not all
that interesting. So there's value for it in a lot
of reasons. It really does help the relationship. But then
(33:02):
for each individual, those hobbies are so important for you
to maintain your own identity.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Especially with kids, you start losing yourself in that world.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, and I guess my last question A lot of
the principles you've given us to day, which a lot
of great stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
They seem to be universal in Manilbirds.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
They can apply to the LGBTQ community as well. As
we mentioned earlier, we'll see we're talking about HETEROSEXU.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
But doesn't have to be like that, right, Yeah, And.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
When I'm talking when I was talking about the male female,
when it came to the sex life portion, that was
more of the heatero part.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
The rest of it.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
Absolutely, I have clients from every orientation, from every lifestyle
from you know that it is very inclusive because at
the end of the day, all humans desire safety and
connection and healthy intimacy, no matter what your orientation.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
That's Interrue'm trying to think. I'm trying to see if
my classes any questions. They popped up a lot. I
think one of them was a difference. Does it make
a difference? Somebody said, she think she's twenty five, her
boyfriend's forty. Does it make a difference? Is it too
much going on? What do you think about that?
Speaker 5 (34:11):
I think that it makes a difference if it creates conflict,
if you're not willing to have open conversations around it,
because that is two different generations, so that can be difficult.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
But I don't think I date older men.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
I usually at round ten plus years older as well,
and so I don't feel like that that is created
an issue for me. If anything, it creates opportunity for
more conversation because we have different generations, different upbringings, things
like that. But what does become a difference is if
it turns into a parentified role that is an issue
which is a very common thing, or if it is
(34:46):
just there's there's not a commonality, there's not things to
talk about or to connect about, there's not enough similarities.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Then that will create an issue that could be a
deep dive one for sure. We can spend a whole
show on that one. Yeah, I definitely could bring it back.
Doctor Elizabeth Frederick. Folks, you can find her over at
Instagram that's f d R I c K. You can
also find her doctor Elizabethederick dot com. Doctor Frederick. This
was awesome.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Thank you so much for doing.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
This well, thank you, Carlos. This was a great conversation.
I had a lot of fun with you.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
That was great.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
This was a lot of fun. I mean I even
learned a lot of stuff too. Folks, again, go visit
doctor Elizabeth Federick. Wait for her book, so you have
to go check out the instagramuse. I'm sure she's gonna
start pumping the book when it starts coming out or
getting ready to come out, so you don't want to
miss the opportunity to catch that.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
And this is the best place to reach you.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
That website, right, yep, yes, doctor Elizabethederick dot com. That's
the best place.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Awesome, So if you have questions head over there.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
You know what to do. Folks, make sure to share, subscribe,
hit that I Like button, and start visiting doctor Elizabethebrick
dot com.
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