QH Ep. 65 - Shells, Skells, & William Tells - Quick Hits : The JFK Assassination

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is dedicated to the homies that was down since
day one. Welcome to drop D.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
The following is a disclaimer from drop D Podcast Productions.
Under Section one oh seven of the Copyright Act of
nineteen seventy six, allowance is made for fair use for
purposes such as criticism, comment, news, reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.
Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that
might otherwise be infringing. Nonprofit, educational, or personal use tips

(00:34):
the balance in favor of fair use. So if you
publish the nonsense and we show it to be nonsense,
or you lie to your audience and we call you
on it, don't get mad.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Get better.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Welcome to Quickheads, a dafcare assassination, news and notes podcast
with your host Clark and Doug Campbell. Hey, Hey, Hey,
what is up? What's shaking y'all?

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Welcome to episode number sixty five of Quick Hits, a
JFK assassination, research, news and notes podcast presented by Wall
Street Window. My name is Doug Campbell and I am
but one of your assigned hosts with me as always,
Ladies and gentlemen, he's passing out fades. He's a runaway train.

(01:43):
All up in your lane like it's three seconds left
to score and win the game. It's Rob Clark, everybody,
What up?

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Dude?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Hey, what's up? What's up?

Speaker 3 (01:52):
What's up?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I'm duckle and weaving to Bob and dribbling between my
legs around the.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Back Bobbin and weavin. That's right. How many bobs with
lines this seal?

Speaker 1 (02:04):
You know?

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Take shots at big men like he's got time to
kill at big Bob, Big Bob, big bag Bob.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
What's going on? Rob?

Speaker 1 (02:14):
What the fuck is happening? Sir? It's been two entirely
too fucking long.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
It's been entirely too long, and I'm gonna take this
opportunity since I'm using this particular laptop to do this
particular podcast, to think our friend mister o'mead at Eagle
Computers in Nashville, Tennessee. Mister o'mead is a gentleman, a

(02:41):
skilled technician, a punctual technician, and it was a pleasure
doing business with him. Rob, he got this a number
one podcasting Daily Driver. Laptop back up and running for me.
We are good to go.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Sounds like somebody got the Swinging Dick discount.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well none, no, I don't think there was a discount.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Hey man, can you knock five percent off this ship?
I'll mention you on the show.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
You know what, I didn't even think about that until
this very moment.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Bro.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
That just occurred to me, like, oh man, here we are.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
We're back after like a two week delay because I
had a computer problem, and I thought, uh uh, we
need to I need to thank mister Omead because but
it was your your guidance and council that led me
to pick just accept.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, bro, you gotta remember who the fuck you are
in Nashville. You are a big swinging dick in Nashville,
and you need to use that to your advantage. But yes,
as soon as she told me the problem, I immediately
immediately thought it to myself, Okay, dude, you need to
find one of these Middle Eastern dudes that can run
like the kiosk and the mall that you can take

(03:52):
your stuff in there. That I mean, it's a matter
of soldering a new charge reporting there. Probably you know something,
They get done relatively quickly, bang bang bang cheap, you know,
boom and you're out the door, bam bam.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Dude, you were exactly right.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
I took your parameters, your text message, right yes. And
so I started looking around and I found mister Omead
right yes, and it was he was five four point
nine out of five stars on Google and like literally
seven eight minutes from the studio here and bro, these uh,

(04:31):
these cool ass hats we've been getting. It's like an
order of three of those plus ten percent. I was
at the door in a week. He had me rocking
and rolling. So uh but yeah, man, we are good
to go. That it's charging, I'm gonna take it out now.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
And but it was crazy.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
It was the night before we were scheduled to record
this episode a couple of weeks ago. I got home
and I opened it up and it was just like
I sensed a disturbance in the forest when I put
it in, right there was dan deany sort of amount

(05:10):
of resistance that was never there before.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Right. It was like and I looked up, I did this,
I looked up. Look, look I went like this. I
put it in. I went like this in my eyes
went like this, Look I'll take these off so you
can see. I went like that, like what the fuck?

Speaker 4 (05:28):
And uh look down and we had no charge, no
charge going on, rob, no charge, no bueno.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
So I knew that. Uh.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
I was like, shit, I don't even I don't even
have enough to watch uh you know, uh Southside Crip
and mob Pirude documentaries tonight before I go to bed,
much less do a damn uh you know podcast in
the morning. So I had to call Rob and go, dude,
emergency emergency. So but mister Ome got us back up
and running, and we have a Every time this happens,

(06:01):
every time one of us has something we have to
delay a show, major news drops or there are a
ton of developments in the community.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Happens every time, doesn't.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
It always always?

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Yeah, So we're just gonna do what we do. Man,
We're gonna do what we do. And mister Rob has
the floor first for the quick hits or the long
hits or the medium hits, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Man.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
We're back.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
Rob and Doug are back. We're chilling. We're in our
comfy chairs. We've got our respective beverages and vapes, great
great microphones and earpieces that we both know how to use.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
So we're rocking and ready to go.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yes, and once again, that's o Meed at Egle Computers.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Ye oh Meed at Eagle computers.

Speaker 4 (06:53):
Oh, Rob, dude, but you were right like little kiosk, Dude,
It wasn't a kiosk. But it's this like two level
like little like think about like an L shaped.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Or not an L shaped, very cluttered environment.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
Oh my lord, bro, it's like.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
A strip mall, but it's U shaped two level you
know where I'm talking about where they it's got the
little middle lobby.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
You go in and you got to go.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
Up the steps to to access the shops that are
on the upper level of this thing. And there's like
one restaurant, there's a bank, and there's a coffee joint,
you know that kind of thing, right, and and you
gotta go up and into the hallway or you can
or you can park between him and the pizza joint

(07:43):
and he'll open the back door of the building where
you can come in the back hallway. But it's about
like what you said. And but you go up and
you know, and he's right there. Bro. You walk in
and there's like a table and just racks of monitors
and drives and you know what, you want.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Videos of those guys in India where like people bring
them like broken electronics and ship like somebody will bring
the broken toaster in there, and the guy, you know,
he sets it on the thing, cracks it some bitch open.
You know, he pulls something down off the wall, fucking
hook something up, and then duct takes them back together,

(08:19):
hands and back. It's fixed. You know, Like what the
hell I just watched?

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Man, Dude, They're like it's like mcguyver, right, Yeah, but uh, look,
mister o'mead is a gentleman, a skilled technician, and I
will be taking my other laptop to him this week.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
You remember me telling you about the one that I
bought specifically to upload shows from home with. Yeah, that
I got.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
I think I got like potato chip crumbs or some
shit under the power button.

Speaker 4 (08:49):
Uh, because it just my fucker won't move, dude, So
I got to take it to him to get a new.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I didn't say.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
I didn't say twizzlers in Mountain dew Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
No last potato chips and Coca Cola.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Boy your base okay?

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Oh yes, all right guys.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
So you guys, it's you know what we're like ten
minutes in we should probably talk about, you know, the
jfk assassination and related research. Now, Rob, you told me
before we did this, dude. I got some awesome shit
that you're gonna love. Is gonna blow your mind.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah. I got two stories here, huh. All right, cool, coop,
I've never heard before. From the first one is somebody
who was in Deally Plaiza on November twenty second. That
is a witness testimony that never was I've never seen
or heard before. And the other one is something that

(09:55):
came a little later, referring to a subject that's near
and dear to our hearts, and I've never seen before.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
So I'm ready, bro, I'm intrigued.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Okay. So the first one is a story from an
eyewitness who was in Deely Plaza on November twenty second,
nineteteen sixty three. And this is a letter written from
Santa Barbara, California on June twenty fifth, nineteen sixty seven.
So we're talking, you know, four years after the assassination
to Jim Garrison. Dear sir, First, let me tell you

(10:32):
who I am. My name is Missus George B. Sandefer.
I'm a widow and I live alone. My income is
from my son, who was a First Lieutenant George B. Sanderfer,
who was killed in World War Two on July thirtieth,
nineteen and forty four. My husband is also dead, and

(10:52):
I draw a Social Security check. So this poor woman
is a widow who lives alone. She's living off of
her dead son's pension from who was killed in World
War iiO, and her dead husband serves security. Okay, she says.
If I lived within one hundred miles or so from you,

(11:15):
I would visit your office in person, but since that
is impossible, I'm writing you this letter. I do know
there was, in fact at least three shots fired at
our president because I was there. I have never told
anyone what I am telling you, because I have never
felt any desire to be remotely connected with any of this,

(11:36):
any of these reports. However, I have never read the
Warren report. I was visiting my daughter in Pawnee, Oklahoma,
and on the twenty first of November nineteen and sixty three,
I was preparing to come home. I found out I
could catch a train out of there, but could get

(11:57):
one on the Santa Fe out of still Water, which
is twenty eight miles away. So my son in law
offered to drive me over there. We drove over to
still Water and got there about midnight. I learned from
the station that we would have a long layover in Dallas.
So I arrived in Dallas at ten o'clock the next morning,

(12:18):
and knew that I had plenty of time to walk
around that end of town and see some of the
changes made. Because, as we'll see here in a minute,
this woman and her family used to live in oak
Cliffe in Dallas, so she was curious, you know, to
see over time what changes had occurred in the city.
You know, Yeah, so, she says, I put my baggage

(12:41):
in a locker at the train station and walked out
on the street. I asked a man if he knew
the route of the President and he said that they
would come down State Street and around to Elm. So
I walked on up towards State and across to the
records building. It was about twelve when I stood outside

(13:01):
the Records building and saw the old book depository building
down on the corner. We raised our children in oak Cliffe,
and I wondered if the children's books passed through that
textbook place. You know, just in her head, she's wondering things,
you know, she says. I finally thought I could get
a better view from a cross on Elm, so I

(13:23):
worked my way across the street. It was a beautiful day,
and I thought about telling the people in Santa Barbara
what a lovely day that I had in Dallas. And
I waited there until I saw the President's car turning
the corner to come to Elm Street. The President and
his wife were waving. They looked so beautiful and happy,

(13:45):
and just as they come to turn onto Elm Street,
a man who was about five ten or five eleven
brushed past me, and I saw that he had a
rifle held close to his body. He was in his
late forties or early fifties. He was not a fat man,
but I would judge stocky and build. He had on

(14:08):
a dark suit and a gray gun metal hat pulled
down low on his forehead. I could not see his hair,
but I looked right up into his face, and his
face was either sunburned or flushed. He ran up a
place which was elevated slightly from the street above me.

(14:29):
I noticed his eyes in particular. They looked almost white
to me, pale blue or very light gray. My father
used to call him white eyes. He had a small
scar on the side of his face. The car turned
the corner at a slow speed, and after they turned
the corner, I saw the gun out the window of

(14:52):
the sixth floor of the book depository, and it fired
once and then again. The President slump to the right side,
and then a shot was fired from not too far
behind me. I saw a woman jump up like she
was going to climb out of the car, and a

(15:15):
man was trying to climb over the back end of
the car. The car started moving rapidly, and while I
had not grasped the full extent of the thing, I
asked a man what had happened, and he said, oh,
my god, the President had just been shot. From on
there was nothing but confusion. I had turned weak in

(15:38):
the knees and trembling in the limbs, and finally sat
down on the ground. Later a man helped me get up.
I was stunned and almost unable to walk. I did
not get back to the station until about six o'clock
that evening. I have relived this a hundred or more time.

(16:00):
I got on the train and I laid down, and
the next time I woke up we were in El Paso, Texas.
I felt like it was all a bad dream. So
far as the situation is concerned. There were three shots fired,
and I know it, and I can identify the man
that fired that third shot from behind me. I have

(16:23):
been looking for him everywhere I go. He's all I see.
As I told you before, I'm a widow living alone,
and since then, I have not talked about this to anyone.
I have thought it all over very carefully, and if
it was a plot, which I think it is, I

(16:44):
don't want them to know anything about me. Please keep
me as confidential as possible. Yours truly, missus, George Sandifer
from Santa Barbara, California.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
That is an amazing testimony.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
Yeah, that's uh wow, wild stuff, right, that's wild stuff.
The line he's all I see. Yeah, Yeah, I've never
heard of this witness.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Rob me either. Wow, I've never heard reports of somebody
toting a rifle like right through Dealey Plaza, you know,
and looking their way up to the hill.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
That running right, running? Didn't she say he was running
with a rifle.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
She said he brushed past her.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
Quickly, quickly. Okay, maybe not running, but he was he
was moving.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
He was moving.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, Stocky dark.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Smooth managed to get up to the hill and get
set in position by the time Kennedy is is halfway
down Elm Street. So from the time he turned on
the main or Houston from Maine and get down to
Elm and turn and get to where he was actually

(18:02):
shot at, this guy managed to get I guess up
on the grassy No, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah, and she.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
Saw a rifle hanging hanging out of the six four
window that fired twice. Then the additional shots from the
other position subsequent to that, right, and she could absolutely
identify the man.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
She says, yeah that she saw. Yeah, the man that
counts her dreams.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
I have never heard that. That that's uh, that's wild stuff, dude.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
It is.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Did you look good?

Speaker 4 (18:41):
Did you look on Mary Ferrell and uh see if
you can find anything else out about her?

Speaker 1 (18:45):
No? No, that was all. That was all that I
could find.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
How you spell that?

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Uh, just like a sound sand s A N D
I F E R Sandifer.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Sandifer be worth a look around, wasn't it.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah? Yeah, if anybody else can find something, to go ahead,
let me let us know. Shit, you can email us
at the quick as JFK at gmail dot com.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
Well, you know, I got my computer back, so maybe
when I get home later, I'll kick back and do
a little bit of surfing.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Nice, I can do that now.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
And I got another thing here, Doug bro laying on me.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
It kind of relates to something like I said, this
near and dear to our heart. It's at Affidavid, and
it's at notarized and everything. Okay, uh, it's an Affidavid
from the State of Iowa, County.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Of Polk, Polk County, Iowa. Yeah, sounds delightful.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Okay, So we have here a statement like I said,
it's dotorized Affidavid, stating I James O him after being
duly sworn on oath depose and say, I and my wife,
Norma Himinger, reside at fifteen hundred and forty fourth Street,

(20:13):
Des Moines, Iowa. I am a sixty five year old
retired home builder. Norma and my favorite hobby is to
hunt for lost coins, rings, and relics with our metal detectors. Okay,
whenever we get a chance, we get in our motor
home and just start driving and looking for a good

(20:35):
place to use our detecting equipment. On the evening of
November twelfth, nineteen seventy eight, Okay, remember that date.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
All right, wait, hang on, write it down here. Good.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
I got a great new method for doing show notes, rob.
I put post it notes in various places in the notebook.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
So nice.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Now what was that date again?

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Uh? November twelfth, seventy eight?

Speaker 3 (21:03):
All right, remember that, dear listeners, nineteen seventy eight. So
we're uh.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
Well into the House let Committee on Assassinations right frame
at this time?

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, uh, James says, we were in Dallas, Texas, and
we decided to hunt the dally Plazi shit, the dally
Plaza easy for you to say, Yeah, grassy area from
Elm Street northward up to the knole to the clapboard

(21:36):
fence and the pergola. All right, so they're they're searching
a good area to search.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Right, pretty good area. Yeah. I remember standing in that
very area with Miss Monica Perez him and is right
one Saturday evening is the sunset.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
We had been to the area several times before, following
the murder of President Kennedy, whom we both admired, and
because we were unable to accept or believe the lies
and omissions of the Warrener report. He says. Anyway, on
this particular night, we drove west past the book Depository
building and parked behind the stockade fence just west of

(22:22):
the pergola. After eating supper in R RV. It was dark,
but we came to hunt, so we took our detecting
machines and flashlights and walked through the pergola to the
steps that lead down to Elm Street. Norma started sweeping
the area east of the steps with her detector, and
I began to hunt the lawn west of the steps.

(22:45):
We covered the grass area pretty thoroughly, finding several small
coins and about a pocket full dug a pocket pool
of American flag lapel pins.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
On the grassy nold, but between the sidewalk Elm Street
sidewalk and the fence the stockade fence. Yeah, a pocket
full of American flag lapel pins.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
This is seventy eight, eighty eight, ninety eight, a little
over twenty years prior to American flag lapel pins becoming
in vogue, you know, after nine to eleven. That's interesting.
It's not like everybody was wearing them back then.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Well, not many people were wearing them, but what I'm
saying the Secret Service was wearing them in nineteen sixty.

Speaker 4 (23:47):
That's where I was going, rob, I was leading the witness.
I'm guilty of leading the witness. Yes, sir, the Secret
Service did, in fact, where exactly right.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
It's interesting because of the allegeding counter that some people
had with a quote unquote Secret Service agent behind the
grassy old fence immediately after the shooting. Yet there wasn't
supposed to be any Secret Service people up there at
that time, at least that we can account for, so.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
I've always denied. Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
It was about nine pm when we decided to quit
for the night and return to the motor home. On
the way up the hill, I was still swinging my dick,
I mean, my detector when it sounded off near the
top of the hill. It sounded too strong to be
a coin, so I probed around in the grass and

(24:43):
could not find anything and decided to leave whatever it was,
but Norma urged me to stay with it until I
found it. So I pulled out my little trowel and
dug below some tangled roots, only about an inch under
the roots, and came up with a thirty caliber shellcasing Doug.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Well, there you go.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
It was well tarnished, indicating that it had been in
the ground for some time. So at this point, Doug,
we're talking fifteen years after the assassination. Yes, I started
to toss it away, but good old Norma said keep it.

(25:30):
It might be important, so I shoved it in my pocket.
Then I began to realize the probable significance of my
find and made note of the exact location where I
had dug it. It was one long step west of
the pergola walk and ten long steps down the hill
to the Elm Street sidewalk. So picture this in your mind.

(25:55):
If you are shooting a thirty six or thirty caliber
rifle from the rifle and your shell gets ejected out
of the rifle, it's going to go over the top
of the fence and tumble down the hill a little

(26:17):
bit right, right, So this guy finds this thing ten
feet down the hill, you know, like a foot over
from the steps, which is interesting.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
So now ejected brass will go a long way right now.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
But let me play Devil's advocate, right if you were
going to fire and man, you know when you stand
in Daley Plaza, and I know you've been there too,
it's really hard to imagine standing behind that fence that

(26:59):
close to pedestrians and firing a high powered rifle because
I mean, the shock waves would blow branches off the trees.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
But like, but if you had a bolt action, you're
and you only fired one shot, the kill shot. Right,
Here's where's where I'm going with this. Would you eject
your brass with a bolt action? No, you duck your
ass back down in the trunk and shut the lid
if it was a kill shot.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
But are you gonna immediately know you got a kill shot? Oh?

Speaker 3 (27:38):
I think so?

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Are you going to rechamber another one just in case
you need to shoot again? Because at that point you're
all in, okay.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yeah, you're all in. Yeah. So it's almost like it's
really impossible to say.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
You want to be ready yeah case you know, so
you shoot almost immediately, you know, rechamber another round and
and and you're looking and you say, okay, I'm good.
So you don't shoot again, or if you need to
shoot again you can, right.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
Right, But with that many people in the vicinity, right,
with that many people in the vicinity, if you were
a pro, right, would you take the chance on like
a bystander finding the brass if you were aware that.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
The fall guy was up there.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Well, if you knew that a patsy was in place
in the building and that they wouldn't really be looking
because how many witnesses say a shot came from the knowe.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
But here's the thing, here's the thing, going back to
your original the first artifact, right that the gentleman from
Iowa says he found the lapel pins. Right, if you're
up there and you're firing, and you know there's a
patsy up there, if you also know that you've got

(29:20):
support staff wearing lapel pins.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
To keep people away, to keep people away and.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
To run interference and to pick that brass up, maybe
that's what they were doing.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
It's quite possible.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Policing up that was one of their things.

Speaker 4 (29:37):
Look, he's gonna fire the shot, and he's gonna jump
back in the trunk of this fifty eight osmobile that
you could fit nine people in that nobody's going to
search after the assassination, by the way, rob that know,
but all of those trunks that no one's going to search, Right,
He's gonna jump back in this big trunk.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Shut the door. Part of your job wark.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
All those people to converge the grassy knoll after the assassination.
And once you get all those people over there walking around,
you know, you can't just go down there and start
looking for brass, you know, you.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
You almost Yeah, you're right, but if you had somebody
with a lapel pin, right, or as as in the
case of what was alleged about Roy Hargraves that he
was actually in possession of secret service credentials in Miami
prior to the assassination.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
The FBI got this lead. By the way, guys prior
to the assassination.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
Let's let's play hypotheticals, Rob that that's you know that
Roy was one of the guys with one of those
lapel pins that they found with the metal detector, Then
maybe that's part of his job, because look, the shooter's
gonna get the hell out of sight, use your cover
to police up any brass that may have dropped.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
That's part of the after action team thing. Yeah, yeah,
hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Because which direction did the dark complexed man go when
he left the scene of Daly Plaza?

Speaker 3 (31:09):
He went up the hill, then he crossed the road.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah, and then he crossed the road, right, I mean
he could have just crossed the road anytime. Why walk
down to you know, what I'm saying, Like, you can
cross the road anytime, So why walk down towards the
underpass and then crossed the road?

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Right?

Speaker 4 (31:32):
It would have been but when you when you factor
in his ultimate destination from that little roundabout walk, it
would have been quicker for him to just cross the
road where he was standing with umbrella man.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Uh. But no, he took the long way. He went.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
He went all the way down the hill, yeah, to
the grassy knoll, almost to the triple underpass, then crossed
the road and walked back up the grassy median area,
the the the park in the middle, all the way
up the hill.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
So maybe he was going in that direction for a reason,
and then maybe he saw something that bugged him out
and said, all right, fuck it, I'm going this way,
you know what I mean, Like maybe he was supposed
to do something and then with all the people down there,
he's like he said, you know, he was just like,
all right, fuck it, let's get out of here.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
Well, you know, if that's vital, I'm thinking, let's let's
do the hypothetical again. Our our our, our our imaginary scenario.
We'll pull We'll pull the Fletcher prouty and pull something
out of our ass here. Uh No, I'm just playing.
It's not out of our ass. It's actually very uh
an educated guess, right, Rob, if it was VT Allen's like.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
This, dude, do what especially when you find shit like this?

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:51):
But let's say that he's going down the hill. Maybe
he's going down there to give somebody a signal. Maybe
he's going down there to make sure it makes your
shooter got out of guy out of line and his
control people are in place up there.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Like he's just walking down there. The glance.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
Roy's gonna give him a nod like I got this boss,
all right cool. Then he's gonna turn across the road
and go back up the hill away from where he
was standing, right, yeah, yeah, because I'm not I know,
we we we we identify Roy Hargraves with the umbrella
man sometimes, but I don't know about that. I think

(33:34):
I think Roy was there, but whether that was him
standing there with the umbrella, uh, I think it's as
likely that it's a guy named Jerry Buchanan.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, or it could just be some random jackass that really,
I mean, who knows.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, the only thing that.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Makes that guy suspicious is the whole umbrella thing, right, Yeah,
you kind of don't need the umbrella guy thing because
you got dark complected man signaling with his hands, right, yep,
So you don't really need somebody with a giant fucking
umbrella throwing signals around, unless one like like maybe the

(34:14):
umbrella is a ready set right and the fist is go. Yeah,
it could be you know, something like.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
That, something like that.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
But dude, I've seen some really good photo comparisons that
were put online years ago by this cat named, uh.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
Was his name, Philip Dragon? Is that right? Am I
getting that name writers as something similar.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
A guy phil Dragoo that guy?

Speaker 4 (34:42):
Yeah, yeah, years ago on online photo comparisons between Jerry Buchanan,
who was absolutely one of these inner pin guys. His
brother was what's the Buchanan the road for the Miami Herald,
that hung out with Frank Sturgis all the time, James,
You Cannon.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
James, And that was his brother.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
Jerry's the one that later claimed that he saw Lee
Oswald get punched out in Miami for trying to board
someone's gunboat without permission. But he was somebody that ran
with v DAL one hundred percent, not as much as

(35:26):
Roy did, but he did. And I've seen some photo
comparisons Jerry Buchanan Umbrella Man that make me go, oh shit,
you know, because he was definitely part of that clique
for sure. So you know, when Roy says or told
an old twyman that he was up the road ready
to detonate a truck bomb in case it was needed,

(35:48):
that might ring a little true for me.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
What about you, Yeah, I mean he couldn't. He couldn't
sit where he was sitting and worry about a bomb
being detonated on the other side of the underpass. And
you know what I mean, you have to be somewhat
closer to that area. And if it was like up
up behind the stockade fence down closer to the other
side of the underpass, you know, to where he could

(36:10):
watch multiple angles, you know, from you know, and keep
people away from a shooter, you know, and then come
up and run interference. That makes sense.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, oh I agree, one hundred percent. Bro.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
Sorry, I wonder whatever happened to this thirty this this
this thirty caliber shell.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Well, I'll tell you.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
Oh hey, that's how that worked perfect.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
He says. I remember a tree being nearby within two
or three feet it seems, but I also remember that
the corner of the board fence was not very far away.
Remember it was very dark that night when we were
doing this, and I looked down on Elm Street from
where I was standing, and I visualized the position of
the present limousine when he received a fatal front headshot,

(37:03):
and got a strong gut feeling that I was holding
the casing from which the missile came. I felt sure
I had proof that there was at least one other
gunman involved. I was excited and wanted to tell somebody,
so I tried to phone Penn Jones, who we had
visited with on one of our previous trips to Dallas,
but I could not reach him. So Norman and I

(37:25):
came back to Des Moines and engraved the date eleven,
twelve seventy eight on the casing, indicating the date that
I found it, and put it in a jewelry box
on my dresser. A few days later, I was successful
in reaching Penn by telephone at his home. I told
him of my find and that I did not know

(37:45):
what to do with it. He said it was a
very important piece of evidence and that he would give
the information to quote the right people and have them
get in touch with me. No one ever did, and
I put the matter in the back of my mind
till one day last week, as I was getting something
out of the jewelry box, the cartridge casing caught my eye.

(38:07):
I decided right then that the American people should know
about this new evidence. Hence I am writing this Affidavid
and sending it and the casing with our initials Norma's
and mine engraved on it. Two Jim Garrison, knowing him
to be a tireless investigator of the assassination, and with
the belief that he will know how to make this

(38:29):
new evidence known to the people. And it signed James
Hemminger and I Norma Hemminger have read the above Affidavid
and swear it is true and factual. She signed it,
subscribed and sworn to me the notary public for pok County, Iowa.

(38:50):
On the twenty eighth day of October nineteen eighty five,
is when he sent the shellcasing to Jim Garrison. Damned,
And of course six years later Garrison would be dead.

Speaker 4 (39:05):
Nineteen eighty five, just a just not long before he
started working with Oliver Stone.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Correct. Wow, so very interesting, And I don't know whatever
happened to the casing. I don't know who you know
inherited all of garrison shit, but it'd be interesting to
find out.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Maybe his son, what was his name, Elmo no Jasper, Maybe.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
He has.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Elmo el Elmo Garrison here.

Speaker 4 (39:40):
So a thirty caliber shell casing, Yeah, between the sidewalk
and the fence. Yeah, I would very much like to
see these. Uh this pocket full of the pel pins,
can you imagine? Yeah, Like, what's a pocketful?

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Two?

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Three?

Speaker 1 (40:07):
That's right?

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Intriguing stuff.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Right, It's pretty small, dude, So a pocketful to me
would be like fucking maybe fifteen or twenty of them,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (40:17):
Like when you like you, when you buy them, you
don't buy just one. They all come in a.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Little baggy yeah right.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
Right, like you had a baggie of them and you
passed two or three out to the guys that needed them, right, Yeah,
falls out of the pocket and you just throw them
down because you don't need them anymore. Yeah, yeah, you
know if you got if you here's I don't know
what a gross here's a dozen, right, you got a
dozen in a little pack, but you only had to
pass out three. Well, the rest would be absolutely able

(40:49):
to be described as a pocketful.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah. And just to substantiate this Affidavid right. So, a
gunshot in Daly Plaza was reported to the Dallas Police
approximately one week before the assassination. A Joe Bailey Blackwell
of Dallas and her sister were approaching the Triple Underpass

(41:13):
when they were shot at and a bullet lodged in
their car. No shit, The police were unable to determine
the source of the shot.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
I have never heard this in my life.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
You are absolutely blowing my mind and teaching me something
that I did not know.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
I am bringing the day.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
I know you are bringing the fire.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
So this shooting was you said, approximately what now, how long?

Speaker 1 (41:41):
A week before the assassination.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
One week before the assassination.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
As they're approaching the Triple Underpass, they were shot at
and a bullet lodged in their car.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Now to further go a little further, Holy moly. The
HSCA investigated bullet fragments that were unavailable to the Warren
Commission at the time of their investigation. In nineteen seventy
four near the overpass in Daley Plaza. Richard Lester found
a bullet fragment. The FBI determined that the lester bullet

(42:24):
fragment was of a six and a half millimeter caliber,
but it was not jacketed. It was not soft point
or jacketed. It was more a hollow point sporting bullet.
Whether the man liquor carcano bullet was a full metal
jacketed military type, the laboratory concluded that it had not

(42:47):
been fired from a man liquor carcano. The second item
of evidence was a bullet found in nineteen sixty something
It's cut off sorry of the Massy Roofing Company Building
by Richard Haythorne. The HSSEA investigation found that the jacketed

(43:08):
thirty caliber bullet here we go again, yeah, by Eton
Peters ammunition. The bullet was not fired from a man
liquor carcano. In nineteen seventy five, a maintenance worker on
the roof of the Dallas County Records Building, located diagonally
from the Schoolook Depository, found a thirty odd to six
shell under a lip of roofing tar at the base

(43:30):
of the roof's parapet on the side of day Plaza.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
There you go, that's the one right there.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Bro the shell casing was dated back to nineteen fifty three.
The condition of the shell indicated that it had been
on the roof for a long period of time, but
the HSCA made no mention of this shell in its reports.
So there is some indications of thirty caliber bullets or

(44:01):
casings being found in Dealey Plaza for sure.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
Uh, Daley Plaza was absolutely lousy with him. It sounds like, yeah, yeah,
that's that's a hell of a story about the the
two ladies whose car was shot at in Dealey Plaza.
That's actually crazy. I didn't you, dude, you blew my
mind today. I had never I never knew that. How

(44:28):
did you know about that before?

Speaker 1 (44:30):
No?

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Wow, holy moly, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
I Suppo's been burning my ass for all these weeks.
I got was big and god damn it, we keep
getting posted by. But hopefully it was worth the way. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
As a matter of fact, look, can you give can
you give me their names again? The the women in
the car, because.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
I'm gonna I'm gonna go look that up on Mary
in Mary Farrell Foundation too.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
What was that? What were their names?

Speaker 4 (44:58):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Hang on, hey, I'll put it in the show notes
as well. But I got to know this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Uh, her name was Joe, you know, like Brelli, but
uh Joe Bailey b A I l y all right,
Blackwell black Joe Bailey Blackwell. And her sister doesn't have
her name, but probably the same last name.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
We'll call her. Uh, I don't know Beansy.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
How about that Fanny Sue Blackwell.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Fanny Sue Beansy Blackwell.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
Uh yeah, but I'm gonna look that up too later
when I get home, Rob, now that I got my
computer back, It's like, sometimes I'm too lazy to research.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
When I do have time.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
At home, I'm like, I just want to watch racing
on YouTube, and then uh then I don't have it,
and I'm like, damn, I wish I could do some research.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
So you know, there you go. I got my motivation, man.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
And you might want to write down to the hem
and hem and your bullet and see if you can
find out whatever happened to that fucking thing. I don't know,
the Heminger.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
Casey.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
Uh, we've got several places we can look for that
we can uh maybe uh uh is are the Malcolm
Blunt Archives keyword searchable because he's got a lot of
Garrison stuff in there.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
I believe, so.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
I believe Bart.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
Would probably do that for everybody. So yeah, I'll check
that out too.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Man, that's awesome, Rob.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
I don't know if it's just uh, you know, keyword
title or subject searchable. I don't know if it's any
word searchable. I'm not one hundred percent sure on that.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Yeah, dude, that's awesome man. Yeah, great content, mister Rob.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
So.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
I didn't have a lot, but I thought Rob, that
you and I might uh and this is belated.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
I put in the notes belated observations of the George
Joe and Edes five El's release.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
And I thought we would talk about that a little bit.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
I guess it's safe to assume that everybody listening is
probably familiar with who George Joe and Edies was?

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Or do you think we should recap that any.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
I think people have heard that name a lot recently,
a lot very familiar.

Speaker 4 (47:24):
Uh so and and and like I said, this happened, uh.
I believe while I was in the Tropics is when
the thing dropped before we were able to record. Uh So, so,
tell me what what what?

Speaker 3 (47:39):
What were some quick observations about the release.

Speaker 5 (47:44):
That?

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (47:45):
Tell me what you thought about the relevance of it's
only one one sixty two page pdf file is what
we got about George, Joe and Edes Guys uh and
some some of it's still redacted. Uh plus one Uh
you know it's page one of the pdf is actually
Rob page thirty four of his fitness reports. I thought

(48:09):
that was interesting. So any cursory thoughts on the files release.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Well, let me first say, I'm so glad that Morley
finally got the documents that he wanted, right, Hallelujah, praise Jeeves. Okay,
there was certain things that were thought about Joe and
Nevies that were confirmed by this release, and that's great, Okay,

(48:41):
but that in itself really has nothing to do with
the JFK assassination. And what they were implying that the releases,
the release documents meant is what thoroughly made my blood
boil upon hearing all this come out in the media.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
Yeah, I don't. I read things like shows that Joe
and Needes was keeping tabs on Oswald.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Right, or Joe and Ed's run group, you know, interacts
with Oswald, you know, a couple months before the assassination.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
I think the most egregious one was shows that Joe
and Edes was running an operation involving Oswald.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Right, and other key words like pruves beyond the shadow
of a doubt. That yes, blah blah blah blah blah.
Right now, what got my goat? And I've said this
on the Lone Guming podcast past couple of weeks since
this information came out, that you know, there was one delegate, okay,

(50:01):
to the DRE, which was a group based in Miami, Florida.
There was one delegate to this group in New Orleans.
It wasn't like there was a whole faction of these
guys in New Orleans. Okay. There was one delegate and
his name was Carlos Brgner. Okay, And that's it. It

(50:27):
wasn't like they were running a big, giant operation. Now,
what would happen was anything of note that Carlos bring yer,
you know, anything that he felt was of note, he
would relate to the big wigs in Miami, Florida. Right,
So he would report back if anything big that he

(50:51):
felt was important for them to know, you know, he
would send it their way. And I don't think Doug
that the main dr headquartered in Miami, Florida was funding
Carlos Brignier in New Orleans because I say this because
of the seemingly desperate tactics that Brignier was using in

(51:17):
New Orleans to raise money for said delegation, which was
him and him alone.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
The New Orleans chapter was not swimming in cash, is
what you're saying, correct, even though the dre was and
we can document this receiving a ridiculous amount of cash.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Right, They were not passing along the wealth there.

Speaker 4 (51:44):
It was not they No, they were not practicing Reaganomics.
Apparently it was not trickling down to New Orleans at all.
This was not a pyramid scheme, no inverted maybe yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Because you know, Brignia got caught selling like these not
war bonds, but I don't know what they were. But
he got caught selling these things, and he got in
trouble for it, right.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
And he was he the one that got caught selling
the commemorative coins the or got in trouble for selling
like some bay of pigs commemorative coins or something, or
taking up money for him collecting money but people never
got him or something.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Yeah, I mean, and he used to go around and
even in his store, you know, he would accept donations.
He would you know, be on the street, you know,
handing out his letters, much like Oswalt was doing for
pro Castro. He was doing for anti Castro. But much
like Oswald, he was running a group of one okay,

(52:55):
with one member. Now I did come across something. There's
some literature that they were passing out, and they were
selling literature as well. So these pamphlets on the back
were stamped or printed, you know, for more copies of
this literature, you know, send five dollars for however, many copies,

(53:16):
ten dollars for Hover, many copies, twenty dollars for Hover,
many copies. You know too, you know, the the dre callers,
bring Apo box whatever, New Orleans, Louisiana, blah blah blah. Right, yeah,
so he's hustling to make money, and we call it grifting.
He's grifting alongside you know, all these other people, right,

(53:39):
you know, for the cause of fighting communism and fighting Castro,
you know, because they've been so wrong and support our cause.
And so he's raising money for himself even though he
actually never did anything right. There's lots of promissory things
going on with these donations, like oh this your money

(54:02):
will go to fighting communism, you know, blah blah blah.
In reality, he's lining in his pockets, right, Yeah, and
yeah he's not getting rich doing it, right, But how
much money are you really making running a secondhand clothing
store in the middle of downtown CDs, New Orleans in

(54:22):
nineteen sixty three.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
I don't know that that whole thing, man, the clothing store, this,
that's just the front, I think.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
I don't think that was I think they were full
time professional revolutionaries.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Grifters.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
Yeah, that's what was going on there.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
They were full time professional anti communists and in the
storefronts just because they needed a place to go every day.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
That wasn't their home to do their business. That's my opinion.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
And look, they weren't the only ones. I mean, the
Keevan Revelation Lutionary Front, the CRC.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
Yeah, same thing.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
There was meeting at five point forty four Camp Street
from nineteen sixty to sixty two. They were doing the
exact same thing, but they actually had more than one member.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
Okay, yeah, yeah, now here's yeah, you're you're exactly right.
But as far as the dr egoes, man, now what
we're told is that what were The things that are
missing are the spot reports that the dr operators were

(55:34):
supposedly turning into Joe and Ed's under the name Howard Gebbler,
right right, Allegedly.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
They turned in spot reports about Oswald.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
All right, well, now, first of all, let me let
let's get let's say this for sure that it confirms
what this confirms.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
One thing that was that was confirmed.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
In these Joe and Edes file in this in this pdf,
in these papers, is that for sure George, Joe and
Edes did in fact use the alias Howard with when
dealing with the DRE. The full alias was Howard Mark Gebler.

(56:22):
And that can only mean one thing, Rob, You know
what that is?

Speaker 1 (56:27):
What's that that can mean?

Speaker 3 (56:29):
That can only mean that.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
Right now, as we speak, someone somewhere in the American
Southwest is cooking up a Pierre Lafitte date book entry
using the name Gebler. Wait, I mean looking up. They're
looking up a Pierre Lafitte date book entry with the

(56:53):
name Gebler. Not cooking up, Rob, because cooking up would
imply that the Pierre Lafitte date book is manufactured in
fraudulent and that it is manipulated still to morphine evolve
by bad faith actors to line up with our ever
evolving understanding of the facts of the case. And we
don't want to imply that, do we, Rob.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Well, interesting enough, Doug, Oh my goodness, because let me
guess you found the name Pierre Lafeede in the Georgie
jo and Needes file.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
No, no, no, no, no, Well, somebody's gonna no.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
It came to my attention on Twitter, Mary have herstick.
They wrote the book about June and Jerry Cobb.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
Right, Yes, that is a very interesting book. That's that's
got some very compelling stuff in it.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Bro Right, Well, she did a little digging. It turns
out there is an actual Howard Mark Gebbler and he's
a real person, Doug, and was a real person at
the time.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
Get out of town.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
And you know what, the motherfucker looks a whole lot
like George Joan Ed's really same hairstyle, same glasses, looks
a lot like this motherfucker. And this guy was a lawyer, okay,
And he ended up, this real life Howard Mark Gebler

(58:20):
ended up in a Haitian prison in nineteen sixty five.
Apparently he was on a yacht or something in the
Caribbean and I don't know the specifics, but apparently he
was arrested or marooned or something, and they put him

(58:40):
in a Haitian prison. And she found a newspaper story
that was contemporary to all this happening where they were
interviewed Howard Mark Gebler after he had been rescued from
a Haitian prison by a female adventures. I'll be damned

(59:04):
who she claims, of course, would have been Jerry Cobb
or June Cobb or whatever the fuck. Right, But it's
interesting because you have two people with CIA affiliations June Cob,
Jerry right.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
Right, and all the parallels. It's almost the same.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Thing, using each other's aliases for different things. And now
you have a George Joannidi's using a real person who
with possible CIA ties. It sounds like, you know, you justn't.
You're not a lawyer from California and you find yourself
in a Haitian prison for no reason.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
Now, nobody accidentally goes to Haiti and ends up in prison, right,
so not lawyers anyway.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
In nineteen sixty five when de Mornshield was there, right,
and you know you have these two guys using the
same identity and can pass for each other, right, Yeah, physically,

(01:00:04):
it's just odd to me. And I thought that was
a pretty crazy, you know thing that she found.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
That is very you know, I dude, I have.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
Recently pulled that book back down off the shelf with
the intention of Mary Haverstick, with the intention of rereading
because I read it, but I got like three quarters
of the way through it and I really liked it,
And recently pulled it off the shelf with the intention
of taking notes and inviting her on the Dallas action.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
Just haven't done it yet.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Because I think there's some I think she's a damn
good investigative writer and researcher. Really, she's good at it.
I'd love to talk to her about that too. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
So I'm going to send you a text with a
picture of this motherfucker. Yeah, you got your phone by
right over here?

Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
Man, absolutely all right, now you tell me all right? Wow, Yeah,
there weren't there. Weren't damn near the same glasses?

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Yea even same same blank ex expression, you know what
I mean, same ear shape, same relatively same face shape.
Uh not.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Not Neither one of them look very friendly, I'll say.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
That, right. Yeah, And Dick bags right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Well I just said unfriendly But okay, but.

Speaker 4 (01:01:45):
You know about this the Gibbler alias right now. I'm
told by our friend David Boiling, because I was talking
to him about it, that d r E sources have
confirmed or claimed that they even sent audio recordings to

(01:02:09):
Howard Gebler of Lee Harvey Oswald in nineteen sixty three.
And I'm told that Jefferson Morley claims to actually have
the envelope they used.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
I can't figure out where he would get that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
Yeah, and that they also claimed that they sent spot
reports talking about Oswald to him. But it's like you say,
it's not like there were thirty forty DRE guys in New.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Orleans right right right now.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
But here's another thing that people are forgetting, right, if
anti Castro DRE operators were in on a plan to
kill JFK and were helping sent Lee Oswald up for
that murder, they probably would not tell their case officer

(01:03:03):
about it, and they certainly wouldn't put it in a
spot report. So even if the CIA were to release
these spot reports, which I from what I'm under the
I'm under the impression that these spot reports are what
kind of really what they wanted, right right, yeah, but
we but we didn't get We're not released. I don't

(01:03:25):
think there's gonna be anything that incriminates these guys setting
up Oswald in these reports.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Well no, I mean, we have the spot report that
Bringier wrote to the DRE in Miami on August twenty first,
explaining their confrontation with Oswald and that they had debated
him on the radio and all this shit. Right, yeah,
but we don't know that that the head guys at

(01:03:54):
the Miami uh DRE forwarded this information to Joe and d'es.

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
I have that information, and we cannot assume that it
was forwarded to him. I guess that's the thing, is
that that we're being told there's no way that he
did not get this information.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Because at the time, does it really mean anything before
anything happens. I mean, the guys in Miami could have
been like, okay, well you know, what the fuck ever?
You know, we don't need to tell Howard about this.
It's nothing. You know, it's a nothing burger. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
That's why I'm so hungry.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
It could have been nothing to them, you know, Okay,
some some wise ass is pretending to be pro castro
and oh you got a little scuffle with them and
you went to you got arrested, and you debated them
on the radio.

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
Okay, whatever, Yeah, there's there's not You're not gonna find
anything in there. Like you know, that's a wink in
a nudge from their case officers, like, okay, you know
the plan about this subject to make sure he does
this and this.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
It's not going to be there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
And oh, by the way, it wasn't like they sought
out Oswald and fucked with him. Oswald sought them out
and fucked with them. Oswald's the one that walked into
the fucking bring A store first, right.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
Yes, And do you remember what I think I told
you about it one time? In Allen Dale's book with
Malcolm Blunt, The Devil Is in the Details, there's a
section in there that is a conversation with Peter Dale Scott.

(01:05:40):
Do you remember what Peter Dale Scott said about that?
What I remember telling you once what he said about
that whole situation. Yeah, while that what doesn't make sense
about that If you want to argue that Oswald was
cia right, what you're saying is that when he went
to go see Bringay, it's the CIA attempting to infiltrate

(01:06:05):
the CIA.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Yeah, which makes no sense.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Yeah, it would seem to me that Oswald would more
likely have been an FBI informant trying to garner some
kind of information but didn't know what he was dealing with,
didn't know it was you know, CIA funded anti Castro
organization at its whole. Now BRINGA is, like I said,

(01:06:34):
bring A probably is not receiving any money from the
main office, you know, as far as being funded by that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
Yeah, very little if anything.

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
Maybe literature pamphlets, mailers naybe huh maybe yeah maybe uh
but uh or in orders that's probably aliah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
You know, the DRE had these guys all all over
the country, so in major cities all over the country.
So they're not funding all these guys across the country.

Speaker 4 (01:07:09):
No, because part of what these guys sign up for,
as these delegates in other areas is to fund raise.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Right, right, that that's what they're doing.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
They're they're your job is to raise funds, not to
not to receive them.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
They probably have up you know exactly, you know that's
what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Yeah, Yeah, turnover a portion of of whatever they raise
every every month to the national you know, headquarters of
the DR right.

Speaker 4 (01:07:44):
And it's probably the Lion's share, like the National DRE
and I guess what probably been headquartered in Miami, they
probably got the lion's share of It's probably like an
eighty twenty split, like eighty percent of what you raise,
we get, you keep the twenty for local expenses or whatever. Right, Yeah,
and we know that, you know, in nineteen sixty three,

(01:08:07):
I know it was bad as far as the fraud
in that in that community, the Cuban exile community and
people fundraising and just basically keeping the money and getting
rich on it, that was a problem. It was much
more prevalent later, you know, there were like like people
getting killed in the seventies, like like all kinds of

(01:08:29):
hits going on in Miami over that very kind of thing,
people raising money in pocketing the money.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
But I think at that point in time.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
There wasn't as much money in it, right, So people
like Brengay were honestly just it was fighting the good fight.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
It wasn't about the money. It was about the message,
or at least that's what they're being told the.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Cause, right, Yeah, somebody on up higher up the pyramid
is the one skimming the money and getting rich somebody
in Miami. Yeah for sure. But now, Rob, I wanted.

Speaker 4 (01:09:07):
To, uh, there was something else I wanted to touch
on a little bit regarding the Joe and Edes files
before we take our We gotta sell some hot sauce
break right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
Yeah, And this is something.

Speaker 4 (01:09:22):
And you can tell me if maybe you read it different,
if I'm wrong, But it's some analysis that I that
I was able to garner from this Joe and Edes file.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
Now we have been told, right, we have been told
for years and years and years that Joe and Ed's
was pulled out of retirement, right, pulled out of retirement.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Because of his d r E affiliate, That George John
Edes was called out of retirement by the CIA and
assigned that liaison role with the House elect Commedee on assassinations,
specifically because of his DRI affiliation. Again, retired, gone home, dude.

(01:10:17):
By my reading of these files, files from early and
mid nineteen seventy eight, from this Joe and Edes files,
this is not how these events actually transpired.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
Okay, now let me show you what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
I think someone, some department in CIA may have been
trying to ease George Joanedes in to retirement after a
serious cardiac surgery. It looks like they the CIA, were

(01:10:55):
trying to retire joeann Edes prior to the House elect
Comedian assass nations, or prior to his assignment, along with
fifteen other senior CIA employees.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Now, yeah, because at some point you got to put
these old bastards out to pasture. You know, you only
need so many senior analysts around. I mean, it's not
like you can put these guys out in the field anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
You know, right, right, and you're exactly right, But there
comes a time when it's time to do just that.
Our ip we think it means rest in most of
the time. That means you rest in peace. Right now,
according to my reading of these documents and talking to
a couple of other people, including a source who may

(01:11:45):
or may not have worked in the vicinity of such
things at certain times in the last few decades, it's
retirement inctative package, right right, Retirement incentive package, retirement incentive program.

(01:12:10):
They are interchangeable. Why is that important? Because it's in
these documents and it's prior to his assignment.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
Let me tell you what. Let me explain, right, allow
me to read a bit, sir, if you would, may.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
I, yes, please do.

Speaker 4 (01:12:24):
Hey, yeah, we're gonna read a little bit from this
sixty two page George Joannedi's admin file so recently released.
Follow along, guys. Now we're gonna start on page thirty
of the PDF. This document is dated April twenty eighth,
nineteen seventy eight. All right, nineteen seventy eight, and it's

(01:12:46):
the record and routing sheet. And it's literally like initialed
and checked off on by ten individuals from ten different departments.
Now this is handwritten to the side over here on
the right, and it says, based on the current medical problem,
don't and that word's underlined twice. Put pressure on this employee.

(01:13:12):
Let him send it when he gets ready, underlined, don't
worry about it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
Underline.

Speaker 4 (01:13:21):
It's in the Joe and Edese file. Okay, Now here's
the memo, Rob. Listen to this April twenty eighth, nineteen
seventy eight, memorandum for Mail Koska, Acting Chief, Staff and
Operations Branch. All right, that's Staff and Operations, that's that's HR,

(01:13:42):
that's human resources right through.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
Richard C.

Speaker 4 (01:13:47):
James, Chief of the Reinvestigation section Subject Joann.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
Ed's George E. Listen to this.

Speaker 4 (01:13:56):
The above subject is one of the special RP cases
that is of interest to the Director of Security. On
April twenty eighth, subject was contacted telephonically to ascertain whether
he had received the Reinvestigation Supplemental Personal History Statement Form

(01:14:18):
four four four E. Subject acknowledged that he had received it.
Subject further stated that he had recently experienced open heart
surgery and that he was working part time. Subject admitted
that undersigned was quote lucky to catch him because he
was not supposed to be at work. Subject asserted very

(01:14:40):
firmly that he understood the accompanying explanation letter that is
usually sent during the Retirement Incentive Program process. Subject also
stated that he would submit his PHS in two weeks
or when he finished his business with officials. Subject immediately
terminated the intervi You rob.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:15:03):
Next is a handwritten note. This is one of the
fifteen special interest cases which is supposed to be fully
completed by twenty six May seventy eight. Mister Joan Edes
was apparently very brusque with Craig. If he does not
complete and return the forms immediately, we will be hard

(01:15:25):
pressed to meet the May deadline. There are fifteen total
guys that the CIA is trying to incentivize into retiring.
George Joannedes is one of them. Next Memorandum of General,

(01:15:48):
Office of General Counsel, right, Office of Legislative Council. This
is for them, right from Robert D. Brown, Chief Career
Management Staff. Okay, listen to this. Please find attached to
file on subject Officer. Mister joan Edes is a D
level careerist who has recently undergone major surgery. As a

(01:16:12):
result of this surgery, mister Joanedes does not believe he
would be eligible for a PCs assignment overseas, and thus
his comparative ranking and value to the Operations Directorate would
be limited. Mister Joannedes has a law degree and feels
like he might make a solid contribution with this legal

(01:16:33):
background and his operational experience gained in some twenty years
of Directorate of Operations service. Joan Edes does not believe
that his health is sufficient to permit travel, either domestically
or overseas, and would have no objection to such work.

(01:16:55):
I am therefore forwarding his file to address ease to
ask that you review this file again against possible openings
in your respective offices to determine whether there might be
a suitable position for mister jo and Edes. He doesn't

(01:17:17):
want to retire. They want him to retire. That's what's
happening here. Just prior to his they he didn't retire
and go off in the sunset. And then the House
let Committee on Assassination's assignment came up and they went,
oh shit, we need George to hide the bodies. They

(01:17:39):
were trying to retire him. He did not want to retire.
This guy, Robert D. Brown, Junior Chief Career Management, is
reaching out to the Office of General Counsel to see
if they have a place for it. I am reasonably confident.
He writes that mister Johan Edes could be made available

(01:17:59):
in a reasonably short period of time should an opening
be made available for him.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
And here's the last part.

Speaker 4 (01:18:07):
Giving the above factors, we must clearly state that if
mister Joe and Edes were accepted, it should be with
the understanding from the Operations Director at point of view
that there would be a change in career designation from
D to the E Career service. Mister Joe and Edes,
if you want to stay on, we are going to

(01:18:29):
downgrade your employee classification, and so you know, and that's
not to say I don't want anybody to get the
wrong idea that it is my opinion that he is
not guilty of the obstruction of justice that we know
he's guilty for. I believe Love, I'm with you there,

(01:18:53):
and he was absolutely the perfect guy to run this interference.
If you're looking into Cuban ex eye. I was in
the Kennedy assassination. But the tale that we've been told
for all these years that he was pulled out of
retirement and reinserted into the CIA specifically for this assignment

(01:19:14):
is simply not true. He was, if anything, pulled back
from the brink of but he was still very much
a full time employee of the Central Intelligence Agency at
the time he got the assignment to the House Select
Committee on Assassinations. So we can dispel at least that myth.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
Rob right important because there's a lot of myths. There's
a lot of myths coming out in these headlines. You know,
when it comes to these Joe and n Edese files
that were released that Jefferson Morley is going on every
goddamn news show in every podcast walking and getting these

(01:19:57):
articles written by his buddies.

Speaker 4 (01:20:00):
Well, hey, I'm just happy for the guy that he
that he has, ah that he has a big, giant
whatever bomb to drop, uh not around the anniversary because now,
look Morley, well dude, ever since look, and I'm gonna
say this, and you guys can criticize me or think
I'm being a hater or whatever you want to do,

(01:20:20):
but the fact of the matter is that ever since
Jeff Morley discovered the paid subscription on substack, every year
around the anniversary, a giant nothing burger lands that goes
off with all of the impact of a hummingbird feather
on a timpopedic mattress like his won last year.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
Right, his big story.

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
Some guy yeh yeah, some guy saw something at some place.

Speaker 3 (01:20:49):
What was in it?

Speaker 4 (01:20:50):
He doesn't know, But it's blowing the case wide open, right,
isn't it? No, not really, you know so, but I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
And here's something even more troubling that we were pondering
on the show, Doug that how is it that he
gets these files released to him and not at NARA.
Well that's that's a little troubling because to your point

(01:21:22):
of the October surprise that I'm sure is coming this year.
How do we know that he's not holding something back?

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
Where did he get the envelope that DRE representatives used
to mail audio of Lee Harvey Oswald to Howard Gibbler
in Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
Well that's been out for a long time.

Speaker 4 (01:21:50):
But where did he get it? I don't even know.
I'm not saying he got it in any nefarious way.
I'm just saying, how did he get that envelope from
like the National Archives or.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
Yeah, I don't know where he got it from.

Speaker 4 (01:22:03):
The only way he got it from someone in the
DRE is if it was returned, you know, uh, return
to sender or something.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
It may have been mistakenly released in like the nineties,
you know, when when the ARB was doing his thing
and all these documents were getting released and nothing was
on yet, you know, but.

Speaker 3 (01:22:24):
He wouldn't get the original.

Speaker 4 (01:22:26):
He apparently he has the historic artifact original envelope, is
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
Oh, I've only seen the photo copy.

Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
Now he apparently he has the artifact itself, according to
David Boyling.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
Well, yeah, that's trouble.

Speaker 3 (01:22:42):
Maybe David didn't tell me that, but and it's in
my notes here.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
My point is, why are we? Why are we? Why
are is our government releasing files to an independent journalist
rather than putting them out to everybody?

Speaker 3 (01:23:02):
Well, I think I know why. It's because this part.
What's this?

Speaker 4 (01:23:06):
I can't believe I'm drawing a blank on this guy's name,
his partner over there, the attorney. What's his name, Schnapp, Schnapp,
Larry Schnapp, Yeah, yeah, yeah, guys. And this goes out
to you and the listeners. Just in case you guys
didn't know that Larry Schnapp has wait a minute, it

(01:23:27):
quote deep contacts within the current administration unquote. Just in
case you didn't know, look online, because this morning he
posted it for the seven hundred and forty ninth time
online this week somewhere. So also, and with that, Rob,

(01:23:49):
let's get off of this nonsense Joe and Edie's train
and sell some hot sauce.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
Yeah, you're making me hungry with all this nothing burger.

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
Talk, nothing burger talk, man, there's a lot of nothing
burger talk. Listen, no shit, bro, I'm gonna go get
a cliff bar while we play these ads.

Speaker 3 (01:24:06):
I'm hungry.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
I'm going to get some Silk City and put it
on my nothing burger while we take a break.

Speaker 4 (01:24:14):
Well, then it's gonna be a something burger. If it's
got Silk City.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
On it, well it'll be a Silk City burger.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
I want to tell Jay do what?

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
And I'm okay with that?

Speaker 4 (01:24:27):
Yeah, I'm okay with that as well. Hey, listen, speaking
of Silk City, my buddy Harold, the electrician that works
on the studio here. Yeah, I ordered him three bottles, man,
and he says that shake and pour over is the
fucking bomb.

Speaker 6 (01:24:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
He's carrying Silk City around in his work van and
getting his getting like wherever he's at in Nashville. He
gets uber eats his favorite taco joint to his van
in the parking lot of wherever he's working, and he
gets his Silk City out of the box and uses
his Silk City hot sauce on those tacos.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
Man, How cool is that?

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
Hey? I can't blame him, dude.

Speaker 4 (01:25:08):
The best hot sauce on the planet. And if you
listen real close, guys, you'll hear an ad about it
right about.

Speaker 6 (01:25:18):
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Why silk City because this hot sauce comes to you
directly from Patterson, New Jersey, also known as Silk City.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
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Speaker 6 (01:25:32):
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Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
All other hot sauces are sourced in small batches from
locally bought fresh peppers.

Speaker 6 (01:25:52):
It's all about the pepper people telling you your boy,
big bad Bob loves his food like he loves his women.

Speaker 7 (01:26:00):
And nothing spicy but not so hot you can't eat them.
So if you love yourself some sauce and you are
tired of trying to transform your bland meat into something
edible with a tip of a jar, you will transform

(01:26:21):
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Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
Place an order and upon check out.

Speaker 6 (01:26:30):
Enter the code Gunman that's knee You N M A
N for twenty percent off of your entire order.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
You won't regret it. Thank me later. Peace.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
Heyes, Doug here and I'm here with Rob Clark.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
Say hey, Rob, Hey, what's happening? Folks?

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
And Bart Camp.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Good day to you all.

Speaker 4 (01:27:03):
Hey guys, I don't know if you guys are aware
of this, but the newest issue zero one nine of St.
Patrick's Garrison, the Journal of History and Deep Politics, has
dropped and is available from Midnight Writernews dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:27:23):
Did you guys know that?

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
No, did not?

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
They did not.

Speaker 4 (01:27:29):
Well, look here, man, I'm gonna tell you guys what
we have in this issue zero one nine. You got
Nick Bryant an article the Truth about Watergate, which includes
a critical look at Woodward and Bernstein. Jonathan Marshall will
look at how Howard Hughes fits into the Watergate story

(01:27:49):
as well. Edgar Tatrow is back with a long article
on how he's been wrong all these years and LBJ
had nothing to do with it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
Nah, I'm just kidd and that's not what he writes about.

Speaker 4 (01:28:03):
Richard Bartholomele looks at Brad Melcher's conspiracy identity crisis. Don
Jeffries longs for the seventies, and a reprinting of May
Brussel's look at Nazi connections to the jfk assassination.

Speaker 3 (01:28:19):
Guys, Midnight.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
Midnight has that seventies haircut.

Speaker 4 (01:28:27):
Yes, see fitz right in bowchicka Wow Wow Midnight Writernews
dot com Guys, Midnight writer w R I t E
R news dot com like somebody that commits words to
paper with a pen writer, not like somebody on a
horse rider Midnight Writernews dot Com. Garrison, The Journal of

(01:28:51):
History and Deep Politics, Issue zero one nine available now
go get yours.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
I like Garrison Magazine. It's good.

Speaker 3 (01:29:00):
It's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
Yeah, I really do. I mean, you know, everyone who's
got an interesting part and historic article to ship, and
you know he's always Yes, where are my free copies? At?

Speaker 3 (01:29:13):
Dude?

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
You used to be emailing me for years for you.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
Help brother, help a brother out and get yours today
and we are back.

Speaker 4 (01:29:33):
Quick Hits presented by Wall Street Window. I am Doug Campbell.
With me is Rob Clark, Say hey, Rob.

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
Hey Rob, what's happening?

Speaker 4 (01:29:41):
What's happening Wall Street Window? At Wall Street Window dot com, guys,
that's what's that's what's happening at your source for up
to date, current quality news, views and analysis regarding the
often tumultuous financial trading world stocks bonds come out that
he's trading the precious metals markets all kept up with

(01:30:03):
and analyzed with expertise daily just for you, Rob, Wall
Street Window at Wall Street Window dot com. That's Wall
Street Window at Wallstreet Window dot com. Please visit Daily
Absorb and sign up for.

Speaker 3 (01:30:19):
The morning newsletter, the daily Morning Trading newsletter over there
at Wall Street Window. And we thank them for their support.

Speaker 4 (01:30:27):
Now, Rob, you have what you described as a funny
declassified JFK document to share with us.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Yeah, so, been speculating for a while on something, you know,
when when we're talking about how these uh, these Cuban
exiles had these grifts right, you know where they would
raise money and yep, you even have like some of
the uh gunboat cowboys doing the same thing, you know,

(01:30:58):
going across the country raising money for a calls that
they're never going to fucking follow through on. It's all
a grift, right, and it's a way to you know,
live your life, not have to have a job, not
be tied down to your family, just to go through
and kind of skate through by the skin of your
teeth and you know, go through. Maybe it's a cause

(01:31:19):
you really believe in.

Speaker 3 (01:31:20):
Lauren Hall is an example of that.

Speaker 4 (01:31:22):
Lauren Hall traveled the country and just kind of raised money.

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
You know, so you kind of see this thing as
as a money making scheme, a way to support yourself
without having to work a real job, you know, And
you know kind of it's it's a hustle, you know
what I mean. And I see Oswald learning from the
best as he's growing up in the CD streets of

(01:31:48):
downtown New Orleans. Okay. And you know, at the time
Oswald is surrounded, okay by these homosexual predators. And what
I mean by that, Doug is so after they come

(01:32:08):
back from New York, Okay, and Oswald is a young
teenager at this point, Okay, I'm talking, you know, thirteen,
fourteen years old. You know, he's a ripe, young smooth
boy right in the heart of New Orleans.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
I mean literallye young smooth boy.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
Yes, who are you, Glaiden Maxwell, I'm setting the table.

Speaker 4 (01:32:37):
I just I couldn't resist that joke. I couldn't resist
that one. It's very topical, it's very you know, as
far as our modern day news goes. I'm sorry, I apologize.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
Go ahead, you know, and I read that you know
he lived in Exchange Alley, right, which doesn't sound like
a very nice place.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
I do remember reading that particular phrase.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
Yes, yeah, so you know, I got on Google Maps
and street view and Exchange Alley is not just a
street name. It is a legitimate fucking alley like. It
is a legitimate alley. It's not a through street. I mean,
there is a I guess something you could call a street,

(01:33:25):
but it basically leads you back to where you know,
the trucks can get back there to empty the dumpsters
from in this alley, right, and it it kind of
dead ends.

Speaker 3 (01:33:37):
So and it's actually called Exchange Alley.

Speaker 1 (01:33:41):
Yeah, it's a legit alley like, it's not a street like.
But I'm guessing there was like a shitty apartments like
above businesses that were like on the front side of
the building, not the alley side. So and then I
came across a document. You know. Of course Oswald is there.

(01:34:03):
His brothers have already joined the armed forces, so they're
not around. His mother's single, she's not married at this time.
She's not around much because she's got to work. And
Oswald isn't really going to school much either. At this time,
he's often skipping, and as a young boy at that

(01:34:24):
tender age of twelve thirteen years old, you know, he
probably didn't have a lot, and he was around people
who were hustling. Everybody had a grift or a hustle.
It seemed like back then, you know, you see you
know Thomas Beckham. Oh he's a country singer all you know,

(01:34:45):
he's a he can get you any diploma you want
from whatever university, or we can make you a priest,
David Ferry. Or I'm a hypnotist, David Ferry. Or I'm
a psychologist, David Ferry. I'm a cancer doctor, David Ferry.

Speaker 4 (01:34:59):
Or this guy had so many vocations, did he not,
David Ferry?

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:35:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
So my point is everybody back then had some kind
of a grift or hustle, right, Like they might have
had a legitimate job, but they also were had some
kind of hustle going on at all times, right. And
so I think back to Oswald, being this young age

(01:35:27):
and being around and exposed to these characters at a
young age and seeing how things are done. Okay, And
I came across a document that there was a whorehouse
being ran out of some of the apartments in Exchange Alley,
specifically right next door to Oswald. There was one ran

(01:35:48):
by a woman named Mom okay, a whorehouse, yes, And and
by whorehouse, I don't mean a place to take a woman,
I mean a place to take a man.

Speaker 3 (01:36:06):
Okay, what's known as a stabbing cabin basically.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
Yes, yeah, yes, And I've came across stories and documents
before about you know, remember the show I Almost Fuck
Lee Harvey Oswald, that story of meeting him in Lafayette
Park as a young man and recognizing him later after
the assassination.

Speaker 4 (01:36:26):
Great episode, but one of the cringiest episodes of.

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
That I've ever heard. Yes, and you know they took
a lot of balls, no pun intended for you to
do that episode. Actually, let me let me say that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
And you hear the stories from Dean Andrews about you know,
Oswald coming in to see him and being with these
other young latinos and being very swishy in his Swede trousers,
if you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:36:53):
And he's spent and if some would have us believe
that David Ferry and Clay Shaw were instrumental in framing
Oswald for the murder of Kennedy. So that means that
he spent enough time in the company of those two
gentlemen to be framed for the murder of Kennedy by them.
I don't buy that, But.

Speaker 3 (01:37:15):
I do think he knew Fairy, and I think he
knew Fairy very well. Yeah, you know, I have yet.

Speaker 4 (01:37:24):
Some are not gonna like me saying this, but I
have yet to see any concrete evidence that Lee Oswald
ever knew Clay Shaw.

Speaker 3 (01:37:32):
What about you?

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
No, I haven't either, No, never. But there are stories.

Speaker 4 (01:37:38):
There are lots of stories about him meeting Oswald in
the bathhouse. Yeah, there's that story about him calling his
side chick and saying, remember the name David attlee Phillips.

Speaker 3 (01:37:50):
See, there's lots of stories.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
There's lots of stories, lots of stories. But pray to
he continues, sir, even with like people like Eugene Davis
and these and at these gay bars and these other
hangouts and blah blah blah. Right, So recently I came
across a DOJ document, Federal View of Investigation from Los Angeles, California,

(01:38:13):
Doug March twenty fourth, nineteen sixty seven. So this is
a couple months after Garrison, you know, announced that he
is real, you know, opening a New Orleans investigation into
the murder of President Kennedy. Right, but this is a
FBI document. March twenty fourth, nineteen sixty seven, out of

(01:38:35):
la herb Aller, a business agent of the International Photographers
Union Local sixty five nine on Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles, California,
furnished the following the information. On March twenty third, nineteen
sixty seven to two, a special agent of the FBI,

(01:38:56):
Jack Taylor of KNXT CBS News Los Angeles and Dexter
Alley of NBC News Los Angeles, had recently been conducting
interviews in New Orleans, Louisiana, among the homo sexual element
in an attempt to substantiate claims made by New Orleans

(01:39:16):
District Attorney Garrison that a conspiracy had taken place in
New Orleans during September of nineteen sixty three to assassinate
President Kennedy. A considerable amount of film was shot during
interviews of these homosexuals, and some had been used in
television news releases and in a CBS special broadcast on

(01:39:41):
March eighteenth, nineteen sixty seven, at seven thirty PM in
Los Angeles. Taylor reportedly has a great deal of film
footage which was taken in connection with this project that
he could not use on television due to its content. Hi,
I wonder why Taylor and Ali claim that it is

(01:40:03):
a well established fact that Lee Harvey Oswald associated with
homosexuals in New Orleans and had the reputation of being bisexual,
meaning he would have sex with men and women. Further,
that all connected with the alleged plot were thought to

(01:40:25):
be some kind of homosexual or deviant or bisexual, and
that Garrison had favored them as a group when he
was conducting a vice crusade in New Orleans. There also
appeared to be evidence developed during these interviews by Taylor
and Ali indicating that a reported diagram relating to the

(01:40:46):
plot was found in Ferry's apartment had in fact been
made after the assassination and not before and during a
discussion of the assassination. This document contains neither recommendations nor
can illusions of the FBI. It is the property of
the FBI and is loan to your agency. It and
its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency.

(01:41:08):
So I'm guessing this document concerning Lee Harvey Oswell's sexuality
was sent over to the CIA in March of sixty seven,
So apparently there is footage out there, Doug video footage

(01:41:28):
of interviews with known homosexuals on the streets of New Orleans.
Who can attestify to the fact that Lee Harvey Oswell
was in fact bisexual?

Speaker 4 (01:41:38):
Holy cow, Nowhere where would one look? What archive would
one look for this footage?

Speaker 1 (01:41:46):
Porn hob.

Speaker 3 (01:41:49):
Probably not?

Speaker 1 (01:41:51):
But who knows?

Speaker 3 (01:41:53):
Bro, Wow, that's crazy, right, I.

Speaker 1 (01:41:58):
Mean, we have the radio, we have the stations. Uh
you know there was again KNXT, CBS News Los Angeles
and NBC News Los.

Speaker 3 (01:42:11):
Angeles K and x T.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
Yeah, because some, like I said, some of the footage
was shown in the CBS special broadcast on March eighteenth,
seven thirty in Los Angeles, so some some of the
footage was used, but most of it was not due
to its highly illicit content.

Speaker 4 (01:42:32):
That I would love to have a sound bite or
some sound bites of of some of that testimony.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
Yes, I would too, you know about.

Speaker 4 (01:42:46):
Lee Oswald, just to get it out there to the
listeners and research community, you know, and let let everybody
be the you know, be the judge themselves, right, that
would be very interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:42:59):
This might.

Speaker 4 (01:43:01):
Again, Rob, You've just given me all kinds of ideas
for things to look into. Now that I got my
favorite computer back. So wow, wouldn't that be interesting to
be able to unearth some of that audio?

Speaker 3 (01:43:14):
Hell yes, yeah, man, fascinating bro.

Speaker 1 (01:43:18):
Lots of new voices for rob to to take in.

Speaker 4 (01:43:22):
That's what we need, the mighty rob Art players. That's right,
the Big Bad Bob Repertory Voice Theater.

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):
We call it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:32):
Hello, Andre Davy. I was a waiter for a time
at the quarter of two sisters, and this this young boy,
oh my god, I think his name was Lee. Anyway,
he would come in all the time dressed very shabbily,
and I'd be like, dude, like, what the fuck are
you wearing? Like? You can't wear that? Here? You look

(01:43:55):
a mess. I'm here here. Yeah, let's call me hair
for this way. That much better, much better, you know.
I can only imagine.

Speaker 3 (01:44:07):
Those loafers are so nineteen sixty.

Speaker 1 (01:44:09):
One, or the pennies to put in them, you sorry,
son of a bitch.

Speaker 4 (01:44:17):
That's right, hey, Rob, Speaking of loafers. We got some emails,
we do, we do?

Speaker 3 (01:44:22):
Are you ready to Are you ready to.

Speaker 4 (01:44:27):
Answer our dear listeners questions with your sage wisdom?

Speaker 3 (01:44:32):
Sir?

Speaker 4 (01:44:33):
Absolutely, Let's throw the wisdom on them.

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
Here we go, emails presented by Big Bad Bob.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
Thank you, Douglas. Our first email comes to us from
our buddy from down Under, the Thunder from down Under,
Anthony Thripp carpet, dude, Yes, up it in Queensland. You
know where to go? H quest carpet.

Speaker 4 (01:45:06):
Okay, quest carpet in Queensland. And this is just an
inside joke for me and Anthony. A if you run
into tests and clear down their drovers, run, tell him myself,
what's up?

Speaker 1 (01:45:17):
Run Greg Parker, tell him to fuck off. He says, Hey, boys,
hope you're well, and by his goddamn carpet somewhere else.
You don't need his business, that's right, Hardwood. Having mother,
he probably couldn't afford it anyway. But okay, hey boys,

(01:45:42):
hope you're well. I really enjoyed the last episode. Bart
Camp is always entertaining and good for a laugh. You
God damn right, Anthony. We love Bart too. He says,
I have a trivia question you may be able to
help with. At the start of the JFK movie, eight
minutes in, there's a scene in a restaurant where they

(01:46:03):
are all watching the news come through of JFK's death.
Oliver Stone deliberately has prominent assassination people in the frame.
One is Perry Russo at the bar yelling out, But
there are another three faces that are familiar that he
focuses on. Do you know who they are?

Speaker 3 (01:46:25):
Other than they should give the son of a bitch
of metal? Is it that scene? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:46:34):
Yeah, I don't was I just sort of isn't? Isn't
ourn Banister and Martin in that scene as well?

Speaker 1 (01:46:47):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:46:47):
Oh, man, I don't. I don't know. I don't know. Anthony,
you got me, bro, you stumped, you stumped the Doug.

Speaker 1 (01:46:56):
Well, we're gonna cheat here a little bit, Doug. Uh,
I'm gonna google it and uh see see what I
can see? A hold on here, let me pull it up. Ship,
that's a video, it's not a picture. Hold on, there's

(01:47:17):
a picture here, But I have to look very closely
at it. Try to determine who else is in this
scene besides Perry woofso hm hm.

Speaker 3 (01:47:32):
Hm hm hmm Perry wooso.

Speaker 1 (01:47:37):
I see two women who could.

Speaker 3 (01:47:39):
Be somebody Delphine Roberts.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
One could be Gene Hill I.

Speaker 3 (01:47:48):
Uh yeah, but she wouldn't be in uh, she would
not be in New Orleans.

Speaker 1 (01:47:54):
Well, no, no, but she's just playing a part in
the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:47:58):
Oh it's okay. So that's the real Jean Hill in
the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:48:03):
Right, Like it's the real Perry Russo in the bar.
But he's not playing himself. He's just playing dude in
a bar.

Speaker 4 (01:48:10):
You gotta be shitting me. That's like the Hemming thing
in the in the school Book Depository.

Speaker 1 (01:48:15):
Yeah, I mean, this movie is chocked full of this.
So you know, all the people that he had that
were had my idea, I no, he gave them bit
parts in the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:48:28):
Well, I knew Garrison had a bit part, and I
knew Hemming played one of the crew leaders of one
of the assassination teams on the not that that would
be on the northwest end of the depository, on the
fifth floor, I believe is where Stone placed Hemming, remember,
because they had the rivals inside those fake acetylene tanks.

(01:48:48):
And I knew, Like I say, I knew Hemming was
there in the movie, but I did not know.

Speaker 3 (01:48:53):
And I knew Hargraves was a advisor, but I don't
know if he ever made it in the movie. Did he?
Who hard Graves?

Speaker 1 (01:49:03):
I think?

Speaker 3 (01:49:03):
So that's a little bit mind blowing too.

Speaker 1 (01:49:11):
Hold on, what the fuck was it? What was it?
What is that called? Cameo? Yeah, hold on, let me u.
Let me see what AI has to say about this.

Speaker 3 (01:49:28):
All right, Yeah, we'll ask Ai.

Speaker 1 (01:49:30):
Hell yeah, uh man. All it's given me is the
uh Dean Andrews and Jim Garrison restaurant scene.

Speaker 3 (01:49:44):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:49:47):
I can't remember what was it Antoine's Restaurant? Is that
what it was called?

Speaker 4 (01:49:53):
That's the one where Jim Garrison and uh, what's your name?

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
From Roseanne? Where a he says focus people black and white,
white as black.

Speaker 1 (01:50:03):
That one, well, that's where he is with Dean Andrews.
So the one that we're talking about here happened at
the Napoleon House. So let's see here, once we narrow

(01:50:24):
it down, what AI has to say. Okay. The scene
depicts Jim Garrison as Kevin Costner. Lou Ivan is Larry Hagman.
I don't remember Larry Hagman being in the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:50:38):
Do you, Larry hag No? I don't remember Larry Hagman
being in the movie, you know, j R. Yeah, I
do not remember that at all.

Speaker 1 (01:50:48):
Well, apparently he was, uh. While the Napoleon House itself,
the scene in question doesn't feature specific cameos in the
traditional sense. Uh yeah it does, motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (01:51:03):
Yeah, Perry Rue, so damn it Ai fucking ai.

Speaker 1 (01:51:07):
Yeah, God, I don't know. And of course, uh, Anthony,
we don't fucking know.

Speaker 3 (01:51:15):
We don't know, Anthony, we are.

Speaker 1 (01:51:17):
You ought to send us another email and let us know.

Speaker 4 (01:51:21):
Yeah, if it was a quiz, dude, you're supposed to
include the answering here somewhere, But I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 (01:51:27):
Sorry, Yeah, we tried, Anthony. I'd have to watch it
again to maybe pick out some folks, but just from
trying to look at this tiny little picture on my laptop,
it's not coming through very well. But uh, I didn't
know Larry Hagman was in that movie. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:51:43):
That's fucking crazy, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:45):
He played Lou Ivon. Is that right?

Speaker 3 (01:51:47):
He would know Lou Ivan was. Yeah, you remember lou
He's an actor.

Speaker 4 (01:51:54):
He was on Law and Order several times. He played
Uh big big dude, looked like a ball player. Lou
Ivan was the guy that said I'm afraid I can't
work with Bruce aud anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:52:08):
That guy, all right, I'm looking it up now. Fuck
this shit.

Speaker 4 (01:52:13):
Yeah, look at the one that played lou Ivan. He's
like that big Burley actor guy, good actor.

Speaker 3 (01:52:19):
He's been in a bunch of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:52:22):
Where's lou Ivan, lou Ivan, lou Ivan, lou Ivan.

Speaker 8 (01:52:32):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (01:52:37):
Not in the Castle.

Speaker 4 (01:52:38):
J O Sanders played Lou Ivan. Really the guy that
was in the scene with Kostner when he's in the
depository dry fire in the Rifle, j O fooled.

Speaker 1 (01:52:53):
AI. I mean, I guess he does look a little
bit like Larry Hagman, but it definitely ain't Larry Hagman.

Speaker 4 (01:52:59):
No, that's j Yeah, his name's Joe Sanders. But you
remember the guy in the window scene with him, Yeah, yeah,
that's that's uh Lou Ivan. Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:53:11):
Fuck AI.

Speaker 1 (01:53:14):
So I'm trying to see if there was Yeah, Perry
Russo played an angry bar patron.

Speaker 3 (01:53:20):
Okay, we got that, which is probably not very far
from the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:53:26):
Actually, Oliverstone's son Sean played Jasper Garrison. Uh. Willie Minor
played Bonnie Ray Williams. Uh, let's see. Hmm, Yeah that's

(01:53:48):
all we got. I don't know. You have stumped us, sir.

Speaker 3 (01:53:51):
You have stumped us, sir. You'll have to hit us
back next month with the with the answer.

Speaker 1 (01:53:57):
Yes, please do. All right, let's move on to the
next email, Doug, and this one comes from Paul Wade.
Dear fellas, I know how Rob likes long emails, but
I'm gonna keep this short. Hallelujah, Amen, Praise Jebus, Yes,
Praise Jesus. After listening to all the quick hits, Dallas

(01:54:21):
actions and most of the why only most, Paul, why
not all? Why not all? There's only three hundred and
fifty three episodes, I know what it.

Speaker 3 (01:54:34):
Is, Daego offends him. I bet uh, I just can't
handle those Dago episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:54:43):
He says. I'm confused on how many Spence shells were
found at the book depository. I thought it was three.
Then I heard on one of your podcasts some cops
found the three near the sniper's nest and another cop
or cops found two somewhere else, and that there were
only two Spence shells in the National Archives. A quick

(01:55:05):
recap would be great. Thanks. Just finishing listening to a
four hour podcast that Jeff Crudell did with Doug Horn. Hey, Paul, Paul,
wake up dude, Paul. Sorry, uh, Doug, did you got homie?

Speaker 3 (01:55:25):
You've got a hell of a lot more spare time
than I do.

Speaker 1 (01:55:30):
Doug Horn, after studying the X rays of Kennedy's skull,
believes there were five shots to the head Jesus Christ,
five shots to the head, and that Kennedy's body was
taken from Andrews Air Force Base by helicopter while I
was in the shipping casket to Bethesda at six thirty.
Does anybody else believe in that many shots or the
helicopter story? Your thoughts, sincerely, Paul.

Speaker 4 (01:55:53):
Well, there's a difference in shots aimed at the head
and shots that actually struck the head. And I think
if you had five, I have rifle bullets making a
direct hit.

Speaker 3 (01:56:04):
On one human head.

Speaker 1 (01:56:06):
That's what he's saying, ain't gonna have no head. It
says five shots to the I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:56:11):
That's a little that's a reach to me.

Speaker 4 (01:56:14):
But I will say this also, Paul doug Horn is
a longtime friend of ours. I haven't talked to him
in a long time, but I do know that he has,
excuse me, a brand new documentary.

Speaker 3 (01:56:32):
That he has produced. I hear that it is long,
it is detailed, is it is exhaustive, and it's high quality.
I planned it's new. Actually, I can't remember the name
of it, but I planned to. I'm a reserve judgment
on all that stuff and watch this documentary soon. But
I will say this again, five shots to the head.

Speaker 4 (01:56:59):
Is a big reach for me because the damage, as
far as the way I perceive it to JFK's head,
one thirty six is plenty.

Speaker 1 (01:57:10):
And if it was five shots to the dom, he
wouldn't have a head left.

Speaker 3 (01:57:14):
That's what I'm saying. No head, no head.

Speaker 4 (01:57:18):
That's that one thirty six shell will absolutely do what
happened to his head. You don't need five. No, you
might have had five named at it, right maybe right?
Ter remise me, man, Ter reminds me. I remember back
years ago when I was still not jaded enough to

(01:57:39):
stay away from Facebook groups, right on the Kennedy assassination,
as before I became that way, there was a guy
in a Facebook group. What he said, I'll never forget it. Man,
with all the conviction in the world, dude said he
believed that the shooters were told to make sure absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:57:58):
Nothing happened to Jackie. Right, And I'm like, these dudes
were lobbing high powered rifle fire into a moving automobile
that contained how many people Rob one, two, three, four, five, six.

Speaker 1 (01:58:14):
Depending on whether or not you're Mandela affected.

Speaker 3 (01:58:16):
Yes, right, right, but still they didn't give a damn
who got hit. Bro, They didn't give a damn who
got hit. They were not worried about Jackie's well being
at all. And I cannot believe I'm still having an
argument from nine years ago. I'm so sorry. Please continue
with the emails, Rob, Doug.

Speaker 1 (01:58:36):
The only thing that came out of those Facebook Facebook
group discussions was my friendship with you.

Speaker 3 (01:58:44):
All of this, all of this, You're right, Thank god
we met before I got jaded.

Speaker 1 (01:58:51):
Dude, me too, because I ain't in him anymore either.
Waste the fucking time, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:58:59):
We I think, like in a cosmic way, I think
the fact that you mentioned our friendship and our relationship
and working together, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:59:08):
We got exactly what we were supposed to get out
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:59:11):
Yeah yeah. The rest is just yeah hell yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:59:16):
Thanks, We're good, see y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:59:19):
To answer the other part of your question, when it
comes to the shipping caskets and the multiple entries into Bethesda,
I think that's more plausible theory, just because you know,
me and Doug actually met Dennis David.

Speaker 3 (01:59:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:59:38):
Yeah, listen to that episode of the Lone Guming podcast
from twenty fourteen. Guys, go back and listen to what
that gentleman had to.

Speaker 1 (01:59:44):
Say, Rob, Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:59:48):
Yeah, I'm just saying you set him down.

Speaker 4 (01:59:50):
You got to sit down with mister David in our
hotel room for long talk, and people very much need
to listen to what that gentleman says.

Speaker 1 (01:59:59):
Yeah. I went back and listened not too long ago,
and I was surprised at how how good of an
interviewer I was.

Speaker 3 (02:00:09):
You did a great job, bro Right, you did a
great job.

Speaker 4 (02:00:12):
I think we both found that we both learned something
about ourselves on that trip, didn't we Yeah, like like
like like you say, you did a fantastic job, and
you knew you were asking you would ask the next question, right,
That's what was so fucking cool about it. And I'm
glad this came up because I think I want to

(02:00:33):
go back and listen to that again too. But you know,
that was the trip you and I went up there
and I interviewed Doug Horn as a matter of fact,
and that was the first interview I'd ever done, and
that was the where I realized, oh, what Oh shit,
I could do that too, right, It doesn't just have

(02:00:54):
to be me talking.

Speaker 3 (02:00:56):
Uh yeah, fuck, what a great time that was, man.

Speaker 1 (02:01:00):
But yeah, I think there is something, you know, with
these multiple casket entries into Bethesda.

Speaker 4 (02:01:07):
For sure, there was some Shenanigan's subterfuge, sleight of hand
going on, of some sort of some reason.

Speaker 3 (02:01:16):
I think you're right. I agree.

Speaker 1 (02:01:21):
Now when it comes to the shells though, and I
was thinking about this the other day because I see
it brought up often, there's a whole lot of hullabaloo
over who actually found these fucking shells first. Yeah, like
three different people claim to have found the shells.

Speaker 3 (02:01:40):
There's dude, there's no.

Speaker 1 (02:01:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:01:44):
It's one of those things where there's so many stories
about where they were found and how they were found
in who saw them first, and where they were laying
and how they were laying and yeah, yeah, there's no
there's the official story, and then there's several that would
be true.

Speaker 1 (02:02:01):
Right, So we have to go off of what we have,
and what we have is a supposed picture of the
shells in situ right before they were picked up, but
we don't know this for sure. There is stories that
the shells were picked up and then thrown back down

(02:02:25):
on the floor to take a picture of them because
somebody jumped the gun. And it was like, look at
these shells I found. Hey, you dumb ass, we're supposed
to take a fucking picture.

Speaker 3 (02:02:33):
Did you take a picture of those?

Speaker 4 (02:02:34):
No?

Speaker 3 (02:02:35):
Shit, put them back down, Murphy, come here with that camera,
you know that.

Speaker 1 (02:02:39):
Yeah, And then there's the whole thing of the Dallas
Police only turning over two spent shells and one intact
bullet to the FBI. And there's even pictures of this
evidence laid out on the table with two shells.

Speaker 3 (02:02:57):
Yeah, and and all of this you a whole show
on it.

Speaker 1 (02:03:03):
Yeah, some you know, supposedly Fritz hill on to one
of the shelves or left it in a desk drawer
or something. I don't know, but I was. I was.
I think I was talking to Joe or maybe it
was on the show. I don't know. It's all a blur,
but I I was thinking, I know what it was.
We were watching a reenactment of uh Dealey Plaza from

(02:03:27):
when Jesse Ventura, remember his conspiracy show, and he and
he re enacted the shooting where he was up in
his cherry picker right, and he was shooting at a
station correct distance away, and he was trying to hit
the target and get you know, three shots off in

(02:03:49):
six seconds or whatever it is with a man like
carcano rifle.

Speaker 3 (02:03:53):
I'm pretty sure I saw that.

Speaker 1 (02:03:55):
Yeah, Jim Setzer is there.

Speaker 4 (02:03:57):
Yeah, that's the wood is Yeah, that's It's that same
show where they put Fenzer in a wheelchair and put
a big hat on him and hit his face and
tried to pass him off as a mystery witness.

Speaker 1 (02:04:08):
I think that was another episode.

Speaker 3 (02:04:10):
But it's the same series. Yeah, put your fucking goofballs,
Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (02:04:17):
So I'm sitting there watching Jesse venture rip off these
fucking shots of the Karkano and when he is working
that bolt and ejecting the empty cartridge, that thing is
fucking flying out of this rifle. And I mean fucking
flying like it's ejecting like a motherfucker like it probably

(02:04:41):
shot at least ten or fifteen feet out from the rifle.

Speaker 3 (02:04:44):
Devil's Advocate.

Speaker 4 (02:04:46):
Yeah, it flew out, bounced off the wall, and then
back into the floor, but not imperfectly in line.

Speaker 3 (02:04:54):
That's it's not gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (02:04:56):
No, Because if you're crouched at the window and the
bolts on the right side. Okay, and you're ejecting shells.
There is no wall, the walls to your left.

Speaker 3 (02:05:10):
Oh, that thing's gonna go twenty twenty five feet right.

Speaker 1 (02:05:15):
And the picture that we have there's two shells directly
under the fucking window that he was supposedly shooting out.

Speaker 3 (02:05:23):
No, ifing way, that's where those shells were. Period.

Speaker 1 (02:05:26):
Now there is one shell that is probably four feet
up that maybe you could say, Okay, it ejected and
it hit the wall of boxes behind him and then
bounced over there.

Speaker 3 (02:05:41):
That's what I was saying. Yeah, that like that kind
of thing like he you know, and it sort of
hits and bounces back and lands. Uh, that's possible, I guess.

Speaker 1 (02:05:51):
I don't know. But at the velocity these shells are ejected,
I find it hard to believe that they would have
been even remotely anywhere close to that fucking window.

Speaker 4 (02:06:03):
No.

Speaker 3 (02:06:03):
No, no, I don't believe that either.

Speaker 1 (02:06:04):
No, No, much less right underneath of it.

Speaker 3 (02:06:09):
No, and not lined up the way they were.

Speaker 1 (02:06:13):
No. So there's some definite fuckery going on with the shells, huge,
big time fuckery. Yeah, But to definitely say what the
fuckery was. We just don't know other than the fact
that you can't trust that photographic evidence whatsoever. Period.

Speaker 3 (02:06:33):
Oh, I agree, I agree.

Speaker 1 (02:06:38):
So thank you Paul for those excellent questions. Next up,
we have an email from Milton Wilton.

Speaker 3 (02:06:45):
The Milton Wilton.

Speaker 1 (02:06:48):
Yes, I'm already liking his his email. It is very short.
I like that.

Speaker 3 (02:06:55):
I like the moniker there as it were.

Speaker 1 (02:06:59):
Yeah, and he only asked two questions, the first one
being high, Hey, how do you feel the whole Vietnam
thing played in the JFK's assassination any influence at all?

Speaker 3 (02:07:11):
What do you think I think the JFK assassination was
about Cuba?

Speaker 1 (02:07:18):
Yeah, I would agree it became about Vietnam after the
assassination because the government didn't want to have to start
a world war with Cuba or a proxy war against
Russia via Cuba, so they opted for the lesser of

(02:07:40):
two evils.

Speaker 3 (02:07:41):
Much safer to have the proxy war in the other hemisphere.

Speaker 1 (02:07:46):
Yes, with a non superpower.

Speaker 3 (02:07:50):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:07:53):
The second part of his question is also any chance
of you getting Eugenio on your show? He seems to
have a lot of credible information to say. Thanks, Milton Wilton.

Speaker 3 (02:08:07):
Well, you know, We did actually invite him once, but
he said I can't. I can't so sorry, bro.

Speaker 1 (02:08:20):
Maybe that's because we called him.

Speaker 3 (02:08:23):
We didn't call him anything.

Speaker 4 (02:08:25):
We just keep playing this clip of this Fox News
douchebag calling him John t d angdo.

Speaker 3 (02:08:33):
We didn't do it? We didn't do it. No, No,
we didn't do it, but we won't let it die.
But we didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (02:08:44):
Short answer to your question question mister Milton Wilton is
a hell.

Speaker 8 (02:08:48):
No.

Speaker 1 (02:08:49):
He will not be on Quick Hits anytime in the
near future or ever.

Speaker 3 (02:08:53):
No, he doesn't like us.

Speaker 1 (02:08:55):
We are on his shite list apparently. Yeah, so you know, yeah,
we are perfectly fine with that. Wow. Here is an email, Doug,
and this is fucking hilarious from Jim's overly generous DNA

(02:09:17):
sample at gmail dot com. Yeah, I hit the little
down air and it says from Jim's overly generous DNA
sample at Jim's overly generous DNA sample at gmail dot com.

(02:09:39):
I am cringing as we speak, my good man, and
he says, or it says, Hey, guys, great show. What
do y'all think of this Carlos Brgier character and his
relationship with Oswald. He seems like a very odd fish
to me. Was he somehow involved in the assassination plot

(02:10:00):
and helped implicate Oswald in the whole Kurve fluffle? Or
was he just some friend of Oswald in New Orleans
who used to go out with him wink wink his
man liquor and a few clips of Ammo for target
practice when Carlos would help Lee shoot his load across
the lake, punch or train. Any opinions would be gratefully received.

Speaker 3 (02:10:21):
Will.

Speaker 4 (02:10:24):
Generous sample see the first half of this very program.
Here you go, bo, Yeah, and we've already covered it all.

Speaker 1 (02:10:35):
Yes, we talked a lot of bryay earlier.

Speaker 3 (02:10:39):
Didn't gay bring gay.

Speaker 1 (02:10:47):
Bring Yay? Might have been gay? Who knows?

Speaker 4 (02:10:51):
Hey, Rob, So what six hundred page book are you
guys gonna review this week?

Speaker 1 (02:10:55):
Now?

Speaker 3 (02:10:55):
Okay, go ahead with the emails? I'm sorry, Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:11:03):
All right? Next up, we have an email from Titan warmly.

Speaker 3 (02:11:09):
Okay, I get it. At first, that was like a
Tennessee Titans fan. No, that's not it.

Speaker 1 (02:11:14):
Okay, I believe that is a vague reference to a
warm vagina. Yes, yes, it is, ever so slightly.

Speaker 3 (02:11:24):
I already feel better go ahead with the email.

Speaker 1 (02:11:27):
I'm starting to move down there. Hey, guys, I think
we're all aware of how your tongue sometimes gets twisted
when saying the name of certain former right wing conspiracy groups,
and it like initials l. You're not alone. Check out

(02:11:47):
this clip from YouTube. It's only fifteen seconds long. Are
you ready for this, Doug?

Speaker 3 (02:11:54):
If this is what I think it is, I don't know, but.

Speaker 1 (02:11:58):
We're gonna fucking figure out.

Speaker 5 (02:12:01):
This did lead to a copyright infringement lawsuit, which happened,
I believe in the nineteen nineties because this was making
the rounds with certain right wing conspiracy theory groups such
as the Liberty Lobby, Liberty Lobby and others.

Speaker 1 (02:12:17):
Putting you out. It's a it's a clip from six
years ago called the Report from Iron Mountain.

Speaker 3 (02:12:26):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (02:12:26):
See, I thought that was going to be Grunty and
Pubert ripping you off. I thought that's that our dear
listener wasn't aware of their thing actually ripping that whole
thing off from you.

Speaker 3 (02:12:39):
But that what what?

Speaker 4 (02:12:40):
What the dear listener sent us in the email seems
to be a legitimate mistake someone made.

Speaker 1 (02:12:46):
Yeah, here's the uh, here's some more reference. Reading and
analysis of a document called the Report from Iron Mountain
three parts series, with the final one being on the
NASA war document. The first was on island weapons for
quiet Wars. The nineteen sixty seven Dial Press published a
Report from Iron Mountain, which went on to be a

(02:13:06):
New York Times bestseller. This documentained a second run of
wide circulation with the publication of William Cooper's or Bill
Cooper's Underground conspiracy bestseller entitled Behold a Pale Horse. The
document reveals a secret plan to engage in biological warfare
against the populace. Blah blah blah, blah blah.

Speaker 3 (02:13:27):
I have heard of that book, actually never read it,
but I believe it does. Ring a bell.

Speaker 1 (02:13:34):
Behold a Pale Horse?

Speaker 3 (02:13:36):
Cock rob.

Speaker 1 (02:13:39):
Oh, I'll put that away.

Speaker 3 (02:13:40):
Hold on, dang it.

Speaker 1 (02:13:43):
Sorry, I'm sorry. You weren't supposed to see that dog.

Speaker 3 (02:13:51):
I was looking at nine. I was looking at mine.

Speaker 1 (02:13:54):
So oh okay, yes, thankfully your cameras covered that. Well,
that just means I can't see you, but you can
probably still see me, so that doesn't mean anything. Okay,
here we go. Next up from poof Patch, our buddy
poof Patch.

Speaker 4 (02:14:11):
Pof Patch is back. You know, we're just we just
assume that poof Patch is a male.

Speaker 1 (02:14:20):
We do.

Speaker 4 (02:14:20):
Yeah, that actually sounds more like it might be a
female pseudonym.

Speaker 3 (02:14:27):
Yes, yeah, actually.

Speaker 1 (02:14:29):
Alluding to a bush.

Speaker 3 (02:14:33):
What I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (02:14:37):
All Right, poof Patch says, see the link, and I
got a link, So I'm gonna click the link.

Speaker 3 (02:14:45):
I'm glad you're clicking it over with your machine, and
it takes us to a big old poof Patch in
full color.

Speaker 1 (02:14:56):
No now, poof Patch. I don't know how you think
that we would not see this horseshit and actually talk
about it on the show, because we actually did earlier.
The link Texas Doug, Yeah to the Axios article Proxy

(02:15:19):
written by Jefferson Morley touting you know all that horseshit
where you can read like the first two paragraphs of
the article and then it's behind a paywall.

Speaker 3 (02:15:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, is that the same guy? I
think it was Axios.

Speaker 4 (02:15:37):
The The guy that wrote the Axios article was on MSNBC,
I think the day after the article came out, and
I watched a few minutes of it one day of work,
and I in a few minutes I heard the guy
got enough wrong detail wise.

Speaker 3 (02:15:56):
For me to just stop. I just why I'm listening
to this guy, not morally, but the other dude, Mark Capudo,
that guy, Yeah, literally.

Speaker 4 (02:16:06):
Blowing important details as bad as Tucker Carlson does, like
just getting shit wrong, you know, just simple stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:16:15):
So you just got to dismiss those people. They don't
know what they're talking about.

Speaker 1 (02:16:21):
Yeah, but poof Patch for further reference, just know that
we will be on shit like this.

Speaker 3 (02:16:28):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:16:29):
Yes, this is not something we would miss and take lightly.
As you can see, and as you've probably already heard
from the first couple hours of this show, we're on it.

Speaker 4 (02:16:40):
But we're on and next time, put a little work
into it, dude, put little hey watch this, this is
a link that has and then put a little description.

Speaker 3 (02:16:47):
I mean see the link the hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:16:51):
Or you know, some screenshots of the entire articles on
Hey to fucking see it?

Speaker 4 (02:16:55):
How about that make us want to click it? Make
us think it's worth our time? Bro?

Speaker 1 (02:17:05):
All right, we got another email from Paul Wade, who
I think we had one.

Speaker 3 (02:17:11):
Yeah, I just did it again. I assumed that poof
Patch was a male. I should not do that. We
don't know that. I apologize.

Speaker 1 (02:17:20):
Yes, we may be misgendering you, and we apologize.

Speaker 3 (02:17:23):
Yeah, but still that doesn't mean you could just send
us some just a damn link. That part stands poof.

Speaker 1 (02:17:29):
Okay, go ahead, right, So Paul writes this again, and
the topic is loan gunman logic. If you are a
loan nutter, you believe that only three shots were fired irregardless,
which I don't think is a word.

Speaker 4 (02:17:48):
I'm already googling it now. Hang on, I was literally
already opening a new tab.

Speaker 1 (02:17:56):
I don't think it's a word, but I use it
all the time because I like the way it sounds
irregardless of what direction it came from. One bullet hit
JFK and the skull and nobody else. One bullet missed
the car, hit the curve and sent a piece of
it into a bystander's face. And a third bullet supposedly

(02:18:19):
hit JFKN in the back, went through his throat, and
then hit commonly about three or four times. With the
autopsy information that the back wound was only a half
inch deep, how do they get around that fact and
still believe that Oswald acted alone. Well, Paul, that would
be a question for a loan nutter, because to get

(02:18:41):
inside their head and understand what they're thinking. When it
comes to this, I couldn't tell you. Yeah, yeah, is
magic bullet theory. That's why it's called the magic bullet theory.
Thank you, Arlen Spector.

Speaker 4 (02:18:58):
It's like asking what it's like asking me, well, why
did the heavens gate people castraight themselves, put on matching
nikes and take poison.

Speaker 1 (02:19:07):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:19:09):
I don't know what they're thinking. I don't know why
loan nutters think like they do. I don't know why
loan nutters bother with people like us. Yeah, I'll take
it a step further. I mean, you know, I don't
know why loan nutters have a burning desire to write
blog posts. No, I don't get anything about them, Paul nothing.

Speaker 1 (02:19:30):
Yeah, We're not in that mindset and never have been
in that mindset. My guess is they stand firmly with
the warrant commissioned version of the shot sequence, which recently
I pointed out on my show that I have a
serious problem with the shot sequence.

Speaker 3 (02:19:50):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:19:51):
And here's why. Okay, I've and people have different opinions
on this, and I'm not sure or where Doug stands
on the Paul Landas story that came out last year. Right,
everybody's criticizing this guy. Why do you wait fifty sixty
years to write this book all to money grabs? Horseshit?

(02:20:12):
You know how many people put this fucking bullet on
a stretcher? Blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (02:20:16):
Right, Yeah, I man, I don't, but I can't say
that I'm on board with it, and I can't say
that I've completely discounted it either.

Speaker 1 (02:20:30):
Honestly, let me walk you through my logic, Doug, and
see if I can change your mind. Okay, Now, you
mentioned in this email, Paul about the shallow back wound. Okay,
in Kennedy's back during the Bethesda autopsy. Dude stuck his
fucking finger in his pinky finger and it only went

(02:20:51):
into the first knuckle, which is about a half an inch.

Speaker 3 (02:20:55):
Which is not deep enough to have of contained the
magic bullet. Is that what you're saying, Well.

Speaker 1 (02:21:03):
I'm saying it. It couldn't have. It cannot account for
a through and through shot that would exit the throat.

Speaker 3 (02:21:11):
No, No, there's no way. Yeah, I agree with you
there one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (02:21:15):
And yeah, it's too low on the back and the
trajectory is wrong. If you're shooting from a high angle
and it enters four inches you know, below your neck,
you know, the back of your neck, into your back,
you know, your upper back. It's not going to magically
turn or anything and come out a couple of inches

(02:21:39):
higher in your throat. You know, it's going to continue.
It's downward trajectory into your body.

Speaker 3 (02:21:45):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:21:47):
Now, the reason that the land of story makes sense
to me is because, all right, this guy is young, dude,
He's like twenty four to twenty five years old at
the time. He's a secret Service agent. Okay, you have
to remember that back then, being that guy was not

(02:22:09):
some super high calling. It was a fucking job. These
guys were not getting paid a lot of money. They're
not rich. It's just a fucking job to them at
that point. Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:22:21):
Not a lot of sleep, hell of a lot of travel.
Five sixty seven guys in a hotel room.

Speaker 1 (02:22:27):
Yeah, so I believe he lasted a year in the Service,
and then after that he you know, he explains in
his book that he was having trouble sleeping and that
he was replaying the events of that day in his
head NonStop. And he could barely function, and he didn't

(02:22:48):
want anything to do with that anymore. Totally understandable, he
decided to quit the Secret Service and totally change his
life and going into different trage, a different occupation, and
basically hope that he would for you know, because if
you're going to the same job every day that haunts you,

(02:23:09):
you're never going to get.

Speaker 4 (02:23:10):
Over that, right You're you're that that anxiety, and it's
going to be constant PTSD. Right that that's the thing
about that being in that position, that that that people
don't realize. I mean, that would have to be every day,
every day. It's no wonder that, uh, you know, so
many of these guys were so affected by that event, right,

(02:23:31):
So you.

Speaker 1 (02:23:32):
Want to put that out of your mind as much
as possible and not dwell or deal with things that
reminds you of that event. So you change your life,
you change your occupation, you change your trajectory. You know,
you find a wife, you have kids, you move on
with your life, and you don't think much about it anymore.
You don't read about it, you don't want anything to
fucking do about it. You know, you're just done with

(02:23:54):
that part of your life. Right right until much much
later where somebody approaches you know, hey man, you were
kind of an important part of history. You know, you
should you should write down your story for posterity and
get it out there, and blah blah blah blah blah.
And what he says in the book is that, as
you know, they they're taking Kennedy's body out of the limousine,

(02:24:19):
he sees a pretty much full on intact bullet that
was laying in the crevice behind the back seat and
the trunk. Right now, what makes sense to me is
if this bullet, you know, there was twenty you know,
twenty year old ammunition from World War Two, right, it
might have not had had enough ass on it to

(02:24:44):
you know, do its job. It might have went a
half an inch into Kennedy's back. And that's it exactly.
And in the confusion, you know, after he's hitting the
back like that, maybe it sticks in there, right, Maybe
it's half an inch in and rest with sticking out
and the resulting jolt of the final headshot, or the

(02:25:06):
fact that Jackie put her arm around him and kind
of pulled him close to her, or.

Speaker 3 (02:25:10):
Or high speeds over bumps trying to get to the hospital.

Speaker 1 (02:25:16):
It whatever the case, bullet got jostled loose and fell
in the crevice right, and in the heat of the moment,
he was like, all right, fuck it, that might be
important and put it in my pocket. And then, you know,
take the president into the hospital and realize, oh shit,
I got this bullet here. Let me just put it
on this fucking stretcher here. Somebody will find it, somebody

(02:25:38):
will figure out, you know whatever, and just forget about it, right,
fucking forget about it now. By the time and you know,
by the time the Warran Commission and all that's coming out,
he's he's done. He's done with all this shit, right,
He's done with the Secret Service. He's moving all with
his life. He don't want to think about this shit anymore.
He probably doesn't read your report, doesn't follow news about it, nothing,

(02:26:00):
doesn't talk to anybody coworkers anymore. He's just done with
the whole thing and moves on with his life. So
when you realize that, and I'm not one hundred percent
convinced Doug about this whole curb shot that was missed.

Speaker 3 (02:26:18):
Yeah, that's that's uh, I'm with you there.

Speaker 1 (02:26:22):
I mean, I don't know is that nick on the
curb from a bullet? You never know? I mean, could
have been from somebody driving too close to the curb
with their with their wheel and took a little chunk
out of it. Who the hell knows, and who knows
if that's what actually hit Tag or was it a
bullet fragment or was it a piece of skull or

(02:26:44):
was it a chip of concrete? They don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:26:47):
It just makes And that's what I've I've often wondered,
you know, I don't, James, Tags, injury does not necessarily
have to mean an additional shot, does it.

Speaker 3 (02:27:07):
That's what you're saying, right, And I agree with that one.

Speaker 1 (02:27:10):
Hundred because that chrome strip above the rear view mirror
definitely had an impact on it.

Speaker 3 (02:27:18):
Whether what about bullet What about a bullet hole in
the windshield? Where do you stand on that?

Speaker 4 (02:27:25):
I don't know, See it could be even a chip
of glass from that that hit the guy, you know,
if there's But you're right, it could be a chip
off that chrome trim, because there was an impact there.

Speaker 3 (02:27:37):
You can't deny that. But but I don't. I don't
think now I know that the general what we're told
is that it was Tag that necessitated the magic bullet theory.

Speaker 1 (02:27:51):
Right, what it was because the original shot sequence that
the FBI put forth did to count for Tag being hit. Right,
they said, all three bullets hit Kennedy and Connelly and
that's it. Well, then Tag comes forward and they're like, well, okay,
one missed. One's definitely the headshot. So this other one

(02:28:15):
bullet had to do all the other damage. And they
made it work, right.

Speaker 3 (02:28:22):
Well, they sold the lemon. I don't know if they
made the theory work, but they did manage to sell
the lemon, right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:28:31):
Real, so in my opinion, Okay, you have the back
shot right that fell out and didn't really do any damage. Right,
there's one shot. Then you have a supposed miss whether
it hit a curb or it went tunneling into the grass,
because you see those FBI agents digging in the grass, right, yep,

(02:28:54):
And there's rumors that they found a shell or a
bullet in there, and we don't really know what the
hell happened with it, right, we got pictures of them
digging for it, we did. So that's another shot. You
you have the final head shot, right, that's three that
are accounted for, and look all the doctors at Bethesda

(02:29:16):
said that that throat wound in JFK was an entry wound.
All of them, Okay, all of them said that. And
these are emergency room doctors. They deal with gunshots all
the time. I don't think they got that wrong. So
the throat shot came from the front. So there's a

(02:29:37):
shot number four. And that's even accounting for all of
the wounds that Connolly had. Okay, whether you believe one
bullet did all that to Connolly or two or three
bullets did that to Colony, who knows. But I'm at
at least four before you even talk about Connolly, right,

(02:30:00):
So the shot sequence to me is all kinds of
fucked up. Now where the truth lies and all that,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:30:08):
Every time I.

Speaker 4 (02:30:10):
You know, you try to think about that and work
it out. You know, you and I have had this
conversation before. You know, you just kind of go, well,
maybe wait, wait a minute, well, you know, in.

Speaker 3 (02:30:21):
Positions and where this shooter was and where that shooter was.
Uh man, that's a lot to wrap your head around.

Speaker 1 (02:30:30):
You know. Obviously the back wound came from the behind.

Speaker 3 (02:30:34):
Obviously the fatal head shot came from the front.

Speaker 1 (02:30:39):
No doubt the root shot came from the front, and
Conley's wound probably well, who knows if they said it
was the wound in his back was made kind of
like a tumbling thing. It could have it could have
went in the front and tumbled out the back, or
tumbled into the back and you know, went on wonkey

(02:31:02):
everywhere inside him. And you know, who knows, or it
could have been more than one bullet. I don't know,
but it's interesting to think about. And and Connley himself
said that he didn't think that he was struck by
the same bullet as JFK.

Speaker 3 (02:31:17):
His entire life.

Speaker 4 (02:31:18):
And I gotta I gotta go with old, the old
mister Connelly on that one hundred percent. I do not
believe so either. If any truth was said by anybody
that was in that limo that day, it was that.

Speaker 3 (02:31:32):
Connolly, you know. And like I say, he's stuck with
that and the evidence. I mean, it's a it's a
flimsy thing, dude, it's a flimsy thing. There was more.

Speaker 1 (02:31:42):
There was more.

Speaker 4 (02:31:43):
John Connolly was buried with more ballistic lead in his
body than was missing from the base of C.

Speaker 3 (02:31:51):
Three ninety nine.

Speaker 4 (02:31:53):
And that's all you need to know, right, And they
took a lot out of him, Yeah, yeah, and they
took more than that out of him. But he was
actually buried with more ballistic lead in him, allegedly from
that bullet, than was missing from the bullet. And we're
not even talking about what was surgically removed. So forget
about it.

Speaker 1 (02:32:13):
Those small facts right there are enough to me to
discount any Loan nutter yep, I mean, disregard anything else
about Oswald, disregard anything else about anything. It's the simple
ballistics evidence that makes sense, not as just wild speculation.
But you have to account for certain things like a

(02:32:34):
shallow back wound, like a bullet being found almost intact.
You know, you can't say, well, magically went through two
people and made seven wounds and came out looking like this,
or what's more likely, it went into half an inch
because it didn't have enough ass on it, because it's
twenty year old fucking ammunition, and it fell out of
his back into this crevice and then he found it
and blah blah blah. That makes more me than you know,

(02:32:57):
being some kind of crazy magic bullet. But uh yeah,
that to me disqualifies Loan nutters, and they can. They
can say all the horse shit they want to about whatever,
But that right there tells me that there was more
than one shooter, hence a conspiracy. Hence go fuck yourself.

Speaker 3 (02:33:13):
I'm with you, Rob, I'm with you. Hey, dude, how
many we got? Like three minutes?

Speaker 4 (02:33:19):
Bro? I think if my calculations are correct? Can we
hold over the emails to the next episode? And I
think we're about to run out of clock?

Speaker 1 (02:33:28):
Brother, I got one more. We can do it real quick?

Speaker 3 (02:33:32):
All right, do it real quick? Here we go.

Speaker 1 (02:33:34):
The speed this from Heath Boutwell, who Heath bout Well.

Speaker 3 (02:33:38):
Bout Well b O U T W E L L yep,
oh hey, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:33:45):
The speed with which the DRI identified Lee Harvey Oswald
as the sole perpetrator raises suspicion. Curious your guys thoughts
on the dre's rapid condemnation of Oswald and do you
agree it strongly suggests the CIA's potential involvement. Short answer no, no,
long after, it doesn't really matter what the DRE thought.

(02:34:05):
They didn't really identify him. Here's what they did. They
sent the information they had on him after he was
arrested and said, hey, listen to this. Yep, we debated
on the radio blah blah blah, this this and that
and that was about it. So they did hand over
a lot of information, but they already had it ready.

Speaker 4 (02:34:27):
Yeah, and there's a lot has been made over the
fact that they had a lot of information on Oswald.

Speaker 3 (02:34:36):
Ready, right.

Speaker 4 (02:34:37):
But the people that oh, well, look at all this
information they had ready to go right off the jump
on Oswalt, Well, they already had information on Oswalt.

Speaker 3 (02:34:47):
Right.

Speaker 4 (02:34:48):
This doesn't mean that they were sitting on go with
a packet of information in hand, waiting on somebody to
call him and go, okay, he was Kennedy's killed.

Speaker 3 (02:34:55):
Put this stuff out. That just means they had a
good filing system for the records.

Speaker 4 (02:35:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:35:00):
It literally happened three months before the assassination. So and
you have footage from television stations, you have footage from
radio stations, and and you know, a actual police record
of the incident. So the New Orleans area, the information
came out fairly quickly about this guy fast. It was ready.

(02:35:22):
I mean, it happened three months ago. You know, it's
like hey, go go go, you know, go pull that
footage from three months ago. When we had Oswald, you
know WDSU Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:35:33):
But what you're missing, dear listener, what you're missing is
not the DRE having a lot of information on Oswald
that they were able to write and I that they
were able to access quickly and release to the public. Right,
what you're missing is what happened before the assassination. You're

(02:35:54):
you're missing the fact that the brother All right, look
these guys up, okay, from Frank Bartes, the Rodriguez brothers,
the Cuban Revolutionary Council and Oswalt's court date, and look
up who those guys were.

Speaker 3 (02:36:08):
Look up what happened before the assassination. Right, the one
Artwoo Rodriguez, right that recorded Lee Oswald conversations with him,
and this is the CRC before the assassination. His brother,
his brother, Emilio Rodriguez, was ended up being one of
the highest decorated CIA covert.

Speaker 4 (02:36:32):
Action officers of the twentieth century. Right, he was straight
up covert action badass. Frank Bartes, Right, Frank Bartz was
a pilot for the CIA in nineteen sixty four in
the Congo with Rip Robertson and Cuban exiles. Okay, but

(02:36:53):
when Lee Oswald was in court for his little street fracas.
All three of these fucking guys showed up in her
sitting in the courtroom.

Speaker 3 (02:37:03):
Concentrate on research.

Speaker 4 (02:37:05):
That a little bit, bro, I mean, the dr they
did what they did, But who was circling Lee Oswald
like sharks before the assassination?

Speaker 1 (02:37:15):
And don't forget carlos Key Roga was a key member
of the uh the CRC. Yeah, yeah, he was the
vice president run under Sergio or Kasia Smith.

Speaker 3 (02:37:29):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 4 (02:37:30):
But you know, it's like I'm saying, Frey, you want
to know who a badass if Frank Bartez was the
CRC like chief delegate for a long time. Dude, he
used to own a railroad in Cuba, but he was
a pilot. Look check this out. I've read the documents.
I've talked about him on the Dallas Action. He was
such a rogue that Rip Robertson and the Soto brothers

(02:37:56):
sent him back home from the CONGO.

Speaker 3 (02:37:59):
This fucking guys out of control.

Speaker 1 (02:38:02):
Yeah, and this organization dissolved in sixty two, and these
guys kind of went off and started doing their own
things with the CIA.

Speaker 4 (02:38:10):
True cowboys shit, yeah, true cowboy shit. The kind of
cowboys that would pull off d lee Plaza for sure.
Yeah yeah, man, I don't that the DRE had this
information ready to go. Just tells me that somebody remembered
Lee Oswald when he heard it on the news and
knew how to access that information quickly. I don't believe

(02:38:34):
that Howard Gibbler had him sitting on go waiting by
the phone.

Speaker 3 (02:38:39):
No. I don't think that's what happened though, and I
don't think Rob does either, Right, Rob, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 4 (02:38:46):
But anyway, I didn't didn't mean to get all you know,
ill on you there, mister Boutwell, just saying I'm with
Rob there. I was following Rob's lee Yeah yeah, yeah,
Well what do you think, Rob?

Speaker 3 (02:38:59):
Dude?

Speaker 4 (02:39:00):
Almost three hours? Dude, number sixty five is almost in
the can. What a fantastic episode. This has been long
hits long hits? All right, Rob, Momo, play that music? Boom, Rob, Brother?
What do I got on the thing? Am I the
ones supposed to go first?

Speaker 1 (02:39:18):
I can't remember?

Speaker 4 (02:39:20):
Uh se No, wait, no, it's you go ahead, man,
tell everybody Rob where they can find your stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:39:29):
Brother, I would like to consult my lawyer first, All right, folks.
You can find the Lone Gum and podcast everywhere the
good podcasts are listened to. Also, you can watch us
live on YouTube every Friday night at seven pm Eastern

(02:39:51):
And if you are fortunate enough to join our channel
and become a member, we also do an extra show
every week just for you on Wednesday nights pm Eastern,
and we do it live.

Speaker 9 (02:40:03):
And yeah, it's awesome, So make sure you check it out.
And yeah, Doug, yeah, check it out. It's pretty awesome.
I will be listening to the ladiest episode in.

Speaker 3 (02:40:17):
The morning while I do my chores.

Speaker 4 (02:40:18):
Rob and guys, you can find my show, The Dallas Action,
presented by Wall Street Window anywhere you find quality podcasts.
Critical fault and analysis applied to the study and research
of the people, places, things, events and ideas surrounding the
murder of John F. Kennedy one hundred percent primary resource

(02:40:43):
material sourced zero percent. Fletcher Prouty inspired invented the misdirection.

Speaker 3 (02:40:50):
We do not deal in nonsense like this very show.

Speaker 4 (02:40:54):
Another fine podcast from drop D Podcast Productions in the
Heart of Music, Row Music City, USA, Soul for Rob
and for Momo.

Speaker 3 (02:41:05):
This is Doug saying tune in again.

Speaker 4 (02:41:07):
Next time, when, upon being asked why it is he
thinks those Canadian dudes continue to insist on publicly perishing
intellectually on that ridiculous hill known as defending l Fletcher Prouty.

Speaker 3 (02:41:24):
Will hear Rob say they don't know what the fuck
they're doing?

Speaker 1 (02:41:28):
Do you understand that? Oh?

Speaker 3 (02:41:32):
Okay, we are out, Thank you, Thank you very much.

Speaker 8 (02:42:02):
Bodum dumb dump the bomba bundum boat, bumb bother don

(02:42:41):
dumdum buba bum and Bob

Speaker 1 (02:42:57):
Wat

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QH Ep. 65 - Shells, Skells, & William Tells

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}QH Ep. 65 - Shells, Skells, & William Tells