The IndySiders: Scenic City Invitational (2025)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
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reflect or represent those of Mark Ratleage or W two
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Speaker 2 (01:07):
For years, I've told all of you to say your
prayers and each of vitamins. Now I'm telling all of
you you can stick it the thing it it feels weird.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
It feels weird with two thirds of them gone.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Now, yeah, boy, who'd have thought Kevin Nash would be
the one that stuck around.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
I mean, we all figured Scott would go first, but
that's because Scott made really bad choices. Luckily, Scott turned
things around towards the end there, and Scott was apparently
the role model citizen as his time left us and
our thoughts and condolences to the friends and family of
Scott Hall as well. Obviously we will be getting into
the conversation about the immortal Hulk Hogan, but the very

(01:59):
mortal Terry Balaya here on the Indie Siders, why don't
you do the intro that's kind of your gimmick.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Here that over there stealing my thunder. That's big sexy.
Harry Broadhurst. I am the heartbreak kid, the bad guy.
Mark Man did reporter in Franklin. I'm very tired, Mark Radleage.
This is like my seventeenth therapy session in a row.
Anyway we are talking is that I don't know else

(02:28):
we'll see it. We're talking to Hulkgan tonight. He passed
away last week. I think it was, so, yes, we
will talk. We will talk to very messy human being,
Terry Bollie. We will not speak yell of the dead. However,
he lived a life, he made mistakes, He did some

(02:49):
really great things, did some really bad things. So we
will talk about it with fairness, as we do all
things on the Rattles and Broadcasting Network. But we put
more importantly than all that, we will talk the character
that is Hulk Hogan, which I think is you know,
deserves its own conversation. I did a TikTok on this,
and What's one of the things I said was, I'm like,
I'm not going to run away from Hulk Hogan's historical significance.

(03:13):
If there was no Hulk Hogan, I would not be
a wrestling fan, which might not be the same for everybody.
There's you know, wrestling's been around for quite some time
and it's had a lot of gateway points. But Hulk
Hogan was mine for better or force, So I I
do not want to. I don't want to throw the
baby out with the bathwater, nor will I slander the

(03:34):
dead or the dead character. We'll also gonna talk Summer Slam.
That's this weekend night one and two. Much of my
girlfriend's sugar in. I can't go up to Callahassee to
go pick up her daughter with her because priorities, Harry,
for pri fucking alreadies. I ain't going to no Tallahassee.
I got Summer Slam to watch. I'm a pretty girl

(03:54):
with agency and I don't need no man.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
My girlfriend tried to get me to go to North
care Lina with her this week, and I'm like, I
got plans with the pay per view crew.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Sorry, give it to me, Harry, give it to me.
You gotta go the other way. No, I went the
right way. No, you got to touch my hand, see
I did. Oh wait wait, no, that was the right way.
I'm telling you. How about this? How about this? Can
you do that. There we go. That works the Haters

(04:31):
Club anyway. Uh and then finally as the as the
back there we'll be talking the Scenic City Invitational Night
one and two, because why why should wrestling only exist
on one night? I think the official words you were
looking for there were no ma'am, shout out alt Bundy
Youngstown native Ed O'Neill, which is where between the little

(04:52):
rascals and married with children.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
I'm from Youngstown, Ohio, so Ed O'Neill. Ed O'Neill is
kind of a folk here around here. It's a graduate
of Verse High School here in the city.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Basically, go to see his statue where he scored two
touchdowns in one game.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Or something like that, four touchdowns with folki.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yes, that's right, right, all right, let's get into halt
before too much time passes. Like I said, I am
a Northeasterner. I grew up on Long Island, New York,
Strong Island, Strong Island represent I grew up with Saturday
Night's main event on the occasion that I was allowed
to watch it because it was on late at night
and I was a child, and occasionally my parents my
parents parented. But I also I'm more more than that,

(05:34):
I watched the Superstars of Wrestling that was.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
New.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
I think it was after Saturday Morning cartoons, and that's
how I would find it, because I would watch all
of the Saturday Morning cartoons from like seven or eight
in the morning till lunchtime, and then you flip through
the channels and you see the wrestling on. That's how
they get you. So I probably started watching wrestling when
I was like six or seven years old, which would
put me somewhere between WrestleMania two in WrestleMania three, I think,

(06:05):
and then because mom and pop VHS rental stories were
a thing back in the day when we were kids anymore,
a lot of what I would rent from the videotape
store were wrestling tapes. So I watched the first WrestleMania
on VHS, I watched the second Wrestlming on VHS, and
then I was deep into wrestling by that point. So

(06:27):
the third one I got to watch in my rich
grandmother's condo because she was the only one at the
time that could afford pay per view. So but by
that point, I you know Hogan Andre among other things.
You know Hogan Andre, Savage, Steamboat, the Junkyard Dog Harley Race.
They all hooked me. I was I was a solid

(06:49):
believer by the time we get to WrestleMania three, and
I think you're stupid and I think you're being ridiculous
in revision is history. If you don't recognize Hulk Hogan's
contribution to being the gateway for the vast majority of
people in that era, give you a checking to respond
to that, Harry, what your I will.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
I will absolutely never deny the legacy of Hulk Cog
and the performer. You will not hear me speak ill
of the legacy of Hulkgan the performer. We can sit
here and discuss the faults and the effects of Terry
Belay of the man, but you will never hear me
speak ill of Hull Cogan the performer, because Hogan is
somebody who I will admit will.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
I got into.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Wrestling four or five years old, watching with my uncles,
So it would have been it would have been towards
the tail end of towards the tail end of the
first run of Hull Comaney in the w w F.
It would have been very late eighties into the early nineties.
So five six seven Hogan Warrior. I do believe might
have been the first wrestlemaning that I ever saw live.

(07:56):
I was good because I would have been six years
old in nineteen ninety one, so that's the It's the
first one that I can remember watching with my uncles
and seeing it live.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
I was fifteen in nineteen ninety one.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, I I you're an old fuck.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
We're aware, certainly, Molly.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
But going back to what I was saying, they're real
click though.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
So.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
I'm not as ingrained into whole comania as you are. Yeah, Like,
Hogan wasn't my jumping on point. Hogan wasn't my guy
when I was when I was a young fan, when
I was starting to watch, it was Savage, it was
d v OSSI, it was Jake the Snake Roberts.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
I was a huge Jake the Snake fan. M hmm, sure,
as was I. But Hogan was those guys at the time.
I was like pick fans of.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
But Hogan was the culture. Hogan was pro wrestling. If
you said pro wrestling to anybody back then, you they
they would look at you and go, oh, you mean
holk Hogan does.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, the term oh hok Hogan wrestling. You know, it's
not not the thing you do that I did in
high school. You did the Hulk Hogan. There's two things
I think that are part of the lexicon of culture
that'll and that will always be attached to wrestling when
people when people talk about it colloquially, it's always hook
Hogan wrestling and steel chair, Like when John Stewart was

(09:26):
like making fun of something that was in the news
and it resembled pro wrestling, like he he did like
with a steel chair, Like that's how ingrained it is. Yeah,
I uh, I probably. I don't think Hogan was ever
my favorite, but he was definitely my reason for watching

(09:46):
and because he was, you know, it was such a
big part of the main event. Like Pat and I
did the entire first twenty years of WrestleMania, and we know,
and we talked about what an integral part of the
storytelling Hogan was. You know, you know, it's Hogan versus
the heen And family, and the big villain of the
Ian family ends up being Andre the Giant, who's a
star in his own right. And then you know, there's

(10:07):
the shift over the next couple of years of getting
Savage into the main event, which leads to to this day.
I think if you in terms of in terms of
sheer numbers and storytelling and everything, you know, all the
legs on the stool, I still say WrestleMania five Hogan
Savage is probably the best WrestleMania main event in the

(10:28):
in the company's history.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
And to be fair, he is lust in his eyes.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, the lusterer Hulk Cogan. It was brilliant storytelling and
and I think, oh, you know, between three and five
they brought in a lot of fans, but I think
like five really solidified, like this is this is a
company that is beyond wrestling. This is these are characters

(10:56):
beyond wrestlers. These are you know.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Started getting more and more of the superstar rather than
the wrestler. And I mean you can kind of credit
that to rock and Wrestling, which was Wrestlingia one, but
you start to see more and more of them breaking
into mainstream culture, into mainstream popularity. Savage in a sling
gym deal. Uh.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Even before that, Like if you think about like comparison Siper,
you know, one of the things, like pro Murtis said
about the Marvel universe is it has to be toyatik.
So you're making these movies more or less for adults,
though not so much anymore. But what you get out
of these movies is a culture that's that's geared towards kids. Yeah,

(11:39):
like I had the remember the rubber ones, like the
Big Heart.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Start just bringing them back. Now Hogan's actually announced for
the first series.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
I'm not surprised. I had, Like I remember one Christmas,
the best Christmas I ever had as a kid, My
cousin Ray got me a box of the LGN Wrestlers
at the Ring and everything else. It was the cartoon
at the time, like and then you know, they did
things like the album. The albums were so fucking silly.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
The cartoon was what Hulkkan's rock and wrestling.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Right, That's what it was.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, and then the album was like pile Drivers.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
So what I'm doing is the second one. There's still WrestleMania,
any of the album album is the f one. Yeah,
so the Land of a Thousand Wrestlers.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
And isn't that the one where Linda McMahon's song wrest
so Mania. Isn't that where her theme song came from?
That WrestleMania of the album, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Maybe that one or it was Pile Driver one of
the two.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
So I'm actually in the process of, you know, I
watch a shit ton of wrestling, regardless, even outside of
the shows that we do for the podcast and stuff.
One of the things that I'm doing in order to
kind of break up the monotony of watching my way
through the Monday Night Raw era, the Monday Night War era,
is I'm going back and I'm rewatching stuff from the
set from the eighties and from the nineties, watching all

(12:53):
the WCW pay per views, watching all the early WWF
pay per views, and now I've picked up uh primetime wrestling,
and I started in nineteen eighty seven because that was
the Hogan Andre that's Bobby Heenan and Gorilla Monsoon at
their peat right. So I'm making my way through nineteen
eighty seven in primetime wrestling on Peacock as well in

(13:15):
order to go back and relive some stuff that I
was two years old when it happened in real time,
but just going back and seeing like the way that
Heenan and Gorilla worked together, seeing the way that some
of the guys back then were so athletically gifted, even
though it was such a dirty sport, considered to be
such a dirty sport back then.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, Hogan has quite a run, you know, with very
little time off, and you think about, you know, the
war to setle the score or the you know, the whatever,
the battle to end at all, whatever the fuck it
was calling MTV him and Piper thelt that where the
rock and wrestling starts in earnest that's what eighty three,
eighty four and eighty four. Yeah, and then you know,

(13:56):
and then he's off to the races for the next
couple of years pretty steadily. I mean, he's despite the
fact the other one of the title he's in the
main event of WrestleMania four is interference. He's in the
main he's the main event of five, he's with Savage
and the and then he's in the main event six.
He drops it to uh to the Warrior, and then
the next year's back in the main again Maine event

(14:18):
again with Slaughter. Then then they do they're supposed to
do him in flair, but that doesn't happen, so he
ends up doing because the house Shill run was I've
actually we've covered that at nauseum and then uh, then
nine he's stealing Brett Hart's fucking spotlight and I want
to say. The reason we'll forget to that, Well, the

(14:41):
reason why I'm bringing that up is I was never
the world's biggest Hogan fan, like I keep saying, but
I appreciated Hogan's place in the in the pecking order
of for wrestling at the time the w W W
w F. But I start to lose interest when the
Warrior comes in, So like six seven eight, I'm more
into the Warrior and it's kind of war and and

(15:03):
it's a very messy period, Pat and I covered this
ad nauseum. Uh. Six seven and eight's a very messy
period in the WW especially with Hogan. You know, he's
got one foot in, one foot out. You know, they're
they're kind of you know, trying to commit to other
guys but only like half pregnantly, and then they're back
to Hogan again. It's a real it's really bad and
then hang on. So by the time we get to nine,
Hogan's kind of like out the door. But and as

(15:27):
a fan, and this is the this is what I'm
trying to drive home. By the time we get to nine,
I'm way over Hogan. I don't give a fuck anymore.
Like I I don't think about in the year of
our Lord twenty twenty five, I'm going to do a
podcast kind of talking about his life and in his
what he gave to the business. So back then, I'm
just like, please go away, Please go away. You are

(15:50):
scaler than three Day Old part. You are awful? What
hate you? Please go away?

Speaker 3 (15:55):
And I think, uh, I think ninety ninety three WrestleMania
nine is like the first point for me where I'm like,
all right, this dude might be kind of a piece
of shit at times too, though.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
So our buddy Jeff here, so he wasn't really all American.
He had to pay license on the word hulk, and
his python's were courtesy asteroids, and his death only proves
the Immortal Moniker is a lied to Thank you, Jeff, Well,
what anyway, what were you saying?

Speaker 3 (16:22):
The statement about ninety three ninety three is kind of
where we see the Terry.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Balaya coming out in Hulk Hogan.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah, specifically with WrestleMania nine, because that whole thing, that
whole sit, go.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Ahead and explain with what you're talking about there.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
For the normies, the wrestling politics involved the fact that uh,
and it's it's not just it's not just a hogn thing.
H Flair did it, uh Sina did it, Michaels did it,
Nash did it, all of the big names did it.
It's you're protecting your spot because you know that at
the top of the card you're making the most money
and that's how you best provide for your family. And

(16:56):
I get that. I understand that, I do, But at
some point point the realization has to cross your mind
that maybe it's time for somebody else to pick up
the ball and run with it. Brett Hart was super
popular over in Europe and was starting to gain popularity
here in the States. Brett Hart was a fighting champion,
putting on good to great performances against pretty much everybody

(17:18):
they put him in the ring with except a blown
up y Gosuna. Beside the point Brett Hart was, they
made the comment, especially when Hogan leaves it King of
the Ring in ninety three, the new generation of WWF
superstar Brett Sean Luger, they wanted it to be crushed,

(17:38):
not so much, but the point being is that younger,
more athletic pro wrestler. And we've kind of seen as
the years have passed that that is the way the
business has gone. Right, the younger more athletic, not maybe
not even so much younger anymore, but the athleticism rather
than the brute physicality, rather than the brute force of

(17:59):
the wrestling that maybe you and I might have grown
up on in the late eighties into the nineties.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
So Hogan does. I've watched a few episodes of I'm
a chiefs Burger in Paradise, Thunder and Paradise. It's a
it's an amusing show, especially if you're as old as
I am, and you remember the night writer Thunder. Yeah,
Thunder and Paradise was amusing. And gosh, Hogan really tried
to be an actor. And I think had he had

(18:25):
a better agent and you know, some better handling and
actually took acting classes, he might have had.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
I think the problem for Hogan's acting careers he peaked
with one of his first roles, No holds bard Uh
Thunder lives in Rocky Free Fair.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
So anyway, so so they throw him a big stack
of money and he shows up in WCW DO as
the flare match finally, and I think for that company
that did record numbers for it did and then and
then he's nothing that he's boring and doing they're doing.
My problem with w c W can really be told
through Ho Hogan and it's this. It's it's like, until

(19:07):
mid ninety six, everything about WCW was a retro, a
pale imitation of w stuff WW had already done years prior. Retread. Yeah,
it was like it was like a bad parody band.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
My my story about the early years of WCW. And
I've told this, convert this story many times doing shows before.
I wasn't allowed to watch wrestling from the time that
I was like thirteen twelve thirteen on because my parents
despise pro wrestling.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
I've gone back and I've watched all these shows against.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
My problem that I've had with WCW back then can
be summed up in three simple words, dungeon of doom.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
I will I remember for years I really dined down
on the story of the of the Yetti sexually assaulted
Ho Cogan. People are just like people turning in because
I know me, but they don't really know wrestling, and
they're just like, did he just say Hulkoga was molested
by a yetty? Yes, yes that happened that Halloween havoc
yessir did Anyway? I love the nWo at the end,

(20:10):
I mean like it's it's the mid to late nineties.
I am in college. I don't like the kiddiness of wrestling,
and WCW did what every part of the culture does,
is they go for that like eighteen to twenty five
year old like you're you're you're old enough to not

(20:31):
be a kid, but you're young enough to like really
you know, to like really dumb shit. And the nWo
they got. The nWo what a cross section of cultural
things at the time. It's like gangster wrap and it's like,
you know that that like over the top like Beavis
and butt Heads, South parky rude humor, and then then
there was that element of like ECW violence that whatever

(20:53):
they could get away with, right never someday when I
die soon, you know, and they're putting up like you know,
this is the life of Mark. Somebody please put up
a picture of Raymisterial being lawn darted into the bucking trailer.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
That lived in my head and always I still go
back and watch that clip every now and then just
to watch him go.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Big right off the side of the trailer. I have
to say, like the that first like two to three
year run of the nWo. You know, ninety six to
ninety seven and then ninety seven I think to ninety eight, Yeah,
two years that it ending with starkad has pissed part. Yeah,
with the Hogan and Sting, they told a good story

(21:36):
and like, Hogan really never got on my nerves during
that period. It's after that that it gets terrible. But like,
Hogan has a heel was really interesting. I remember watching
Back to the Beach in ninety six and when he
comes out and fucking I talked about this on my
TikTok and Bobby it's like, but what tide is he on?
I laughed my ass on because I was like, he
fucking turned heel. I'll be damned. And it was great because,

(21:58):
like it's why I told you, like when when you
broke up with the fans, I was so into it because,
like I mentioned this on my TikTok, I totally saw
where Hogan was coming from. I have done nothing to
the fans because you're about to be like he was
shit in the back. I'm not talking about that. I'm
saying to the fans Hogan was pure as the driven snow.

(22:20):
He was I'm not talking about the court case, I'm
not talking about any of that bullshit. I am talking
as as wrestlers character audience. Hogan never did anything wrong. Yeah,
to a character, Well, how Hogan was always a hero.
He was always a role model as such as any

(22:40):
character can be. He was Hang on, let me you
can debate me on this, but let me get there
this point. Hogan didn't deserve dickheads like me outgrowing him.
But that's exactly what happened, and then so many of
us outgrew him, and there was nobody that kind of
came along behind us. If your Hogan the character, not

(23:03):
the guy the character, and you know, like, I've done
nothing to deserve you turning on me, So fuck it.
Now I'm going to be a completely self centered jackass
and I'm gonna live for myself. And I was like,
I hear you, Hogan, I empathize. Now you can jump in,
all right.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
So I'm gonna disagree with a couple of points on
that regard, sure, first of all being that the Hogan
character didn't do anything to deserve that. Psycho said in
the nineteen ninety two Royal Rumble, will disagree with you.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
None of us are prefectary, including Hulk Hogan. There are moments,
there are moments. The point being is that that was
that would heear him? That's just a bullshit thing like, oh,
you know, Hogan did the heal thing and everyone cheered
because we all like it when the good guys do
bad things. We don't know they did not cheer, Yeah
they did.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
Hogan got booed out of the building on the pay
per view broadcast.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
They've edited it in post. Oh if you say so,
I attract my stakement in your honor.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
I would also argue the Undertaker match in ninety one
at Survivor uech Tuesday in Texas as well with the ashes,
that was a very heel thing to do for her. Now,
granted that had a point because the Taker used the
chair the month the week before Survivors series, So this
was a case of kink is my karma as it were?

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Did so? I think just if you're going to be consistent,
did people boo that action?

Speaker 3 (24:29):
No, they've cheered when you did it against Taker.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
But in fairness, you can't use that in your case
against Hogan, can you. I can't use the sid thing,
though you can use the said thing I said, I
take that one back, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Any and I just I think there were quite a
few noticeable boo birds. Have you watched the Mania behind
WrestleMania documentary on Peacock Probably, I don't remember if I
have the one about wrest the documentary they released about
WrestleMania nine right before Mania this year in fa No No,
I missed it, all right, go back and watch it. It's

(25:03):
very good. It's like an hour and fifteen minutes long,
and it's really good. The point being is that they
talk about the fact and what went into the conversation
of Hogan coming back and taking the title off of
Yoko there and you can hear several of the boys
in the documentary talking about Man, those fans were not
happy because there is a large portion of that WrestleMania

(25:25):
crowd that booed Hogan out of the building when he
beat Yoko for the title.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Here's the thing I'll tell you he was also he
was just following order. Sorry, I mean, I don't disagree
with that. Like, this is a company I said this,
but from the Warrior run on, this is a company
with with a lot of fear, not a lot of commitment,
and a tendency to rest on the familiar when it

(25:50):
already worked. Yeah, but so let's get that just so
we can move this along. You know, the for the
ninety six and ninety eight you know from from Scott,
from the time he shows up at Bash and the
beats too. He to the times thing beats him at Starcade.
It's a good story and Hogan's a good character. Everything
else after that, it's it's everything I ever hated about WCW.

(26:12):
They could not Everything was either a bad imitation or
they couldn't commit to anything or both. And Hogan was
just as bad and I lost just as much interest.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
Again, I can't think of a good Hogan match post
ninety eight in WCW, and arguably maybe the worst match
in wrestling history against Warrior at Havoc in ninety eight.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
I think the best match Hogan wrestled was against Jeff
Jarrett at Batch of the Beach.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Actually, that's the next pay per view on my watch
through ironically.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Enough fantastic, So start cleaning up with like Hogan the character.
He'll never be as interesting as he was between ninety
six and ninety eight. Ever, again, that's the that's his
last hurrah. Everything he does after that, I don't. I
don't agree, Okay, what makes him interesting beyond that point?

(27:05):
And like I will say, his match with McMahon was amusing,
but I wouldn't call it interesting.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
The Rock match in two thousand and two, the rust
Many eighteen match.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
He's not interesting. That situation was interesting.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
But Hogan's a massive part of that. It is the
present meets the future. It's it's Babe Ruth versus Barry Bonds,
even though both are kind of distant.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
I think you and I have a different definition of interesting,
which is why we're banging heads on this. But what
I'm saying is you don't have that match without the
Rock or without time having progressed as it does. He's
not what's making that. His presence in it makes it interesting,
but he's not interesting.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
No, I will agree with you that he is not
the sole selling point of the match. Yeah, that I
will agree with And Hogan is actively responsible for me
quitting watching TNA a couple of years la after that,
and we'll talk about that, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Just I mean, the only I want to say is
because I kind of want to wrap up Hogan the character.
Hogan the character sort of dies after thing beats him
in Starcade, in my opinion, and then everything else after
that is sort of his ghost running around doing fun
stuff or not fun stuff. But that's kind of it.
That's that's kind of the end of the Hogan the
character story as a as a figure, as an important

(28:18):
figure in how wrestling develops. I think it kind of
dies in Starcade. Now, Oh, Terry Bowllier not totally the
man outside of wrestling, which I think is its own
separate conversation, but Terry Bowllier, the you know, the actor,
you know, the guy playing the part of hul Cogan.

(28:38):
There's a there's a whole other of thing, and and
I almost hesitates. And this is where, really I'm gonna
let you do a lot of talking. It is almost
hesitate to talk about it because it's like, are we
aware you know that he you know that he actively
killed a lot of guy's careers and he was kind
of a shitty person backstage. Yeah, it's pretty public knowledge. Yeah,

(29:00):
you know is he were his decisions responsible for some
of the biggest fuck ups and wrestling. Yeah, it's it's
you guys tend to get excited about that sort of thing.
I tend to go Yeah, so importunate. But that's something
I want to focus on. I'm willing.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
I'm willing to give him a pass, if only because
I can't guarantee that put in the same position, I
wouldn't make the same choice.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Spot. I get it.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
I understand the necessity of progressing the business forward, and
we talked about that before that There's always going to
be new people coming up with a new style and
a new genre that affects fans the way that maybe
Hogan did in the eighties, or Austin did in the nineties, or.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
One of the things that Pat and I never was.
You know, we had Me and Pat had kind of
a really you know, rock us back and forth about
Shawn Michaels, where I guess, you know, how do you
let Shawn Michaels get away with the kind of barbage
he does? Like he gets away with it because Vince
loves him, whatever reasons why Vince loved him, But his
first love was Hogan. So here's the sewan. You get

(30:09):
away with what you get away with murder if the
if the guy in charge of keeping you from murdering
people lets it happen.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Uh, Sean got away with what Sean got away.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
With because the Vince knew the company was dead without
sean to find in any way you want. My point is, yeah, no,
I'm agreeing with you. You know, Terry Polier can't do what
he does and what he's known for unless Vince co
signs it.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Or unless he unless he has that creative doesn't have
that creative control clause in his contract in w C.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's to me, is false under co shunning it. You
sign that stupid confidence.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
No, I agree, there's no argument for me there.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
But uh, you know, Terry, I tend to give people
the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Hogan,
when it comes to you know, when it I tend
pick two. I tend to give people the benefit of
the doubt period when it comes to when it comes

(31:08):
to Terry Bowlier and you know, like the the phone
conversation he has with Brooke which paints him as racist,
and some of the other stuff that's come out about him. Gosh,
I wish there were more context. That's all I'm gonna say,
because I it's it's hard for me to sit here
and go you are the devil when I don't know

(31:31):
the whole story.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
All right, So I will open this by I will
open this by prefacing it.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Do I believe that hul Cogan was a racist? No?

Speaker 3 (31:44):
And the reason I say no is because hul Cogan
had more than enough people in his life who would
have called him the fuck out on it as soon
as it happened. Guys whose careers that he made, Guys
that he had known for years that would have distanced
himselves from if they'd have known that Hulgan wasn't actual,
honest to god racist, if he was a card carrying,

(32:04):
hood wearing clan member, people would have known. Do I
think that hul Cogan said some very racist things. Absolutely,
And the problem was is Hulk Hogan said some of
those racist things under the guy's the stereotype. And the
problem with that is is it's construed as apparent racism.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
This world doesn't really do well with a nuance agreed,
and we don't have and we don't have Terry Bollier.
Bollier here. I'll tell you know, if you're just like,
say something bad about Terry Bollier or I'm going to
walk off this podcast here. It is my problem with
Terry Bollier is and whether it isn't whether or not
he's racist. I could give ah, they could give a
shit less. One man's belief or practice that maybe the

(32:50):
white people are better than black people's makes no fucking
difference to me. That is your own issue. My problem
with Terry Bollier was the amount of lying that he does.
The unnecessary line like lying not just to protect your position, lying,
you know, to to inflate, like lying just to lie

(33:11):
just because I can't handle reality.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Lying to lying to inflate his own overinflated ego.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
You know why is Yeah, like I like I was
in Metallica. No you weren't. No, you weren't in Metallica,
You dumb ass. All right, So I'm gonna go back
to the Hogan the hope. The first part of my
favorite expression of of the Hogan lie is Hogan's head
on Merco Crocop's body. I always laughed hard at that Hulk.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
Hogan got caught in video saying some of the worst
things that a human being can say about Excuse me,
Terry Bollier got caughtlin video saying some of the worst
things that a human being can say about another human being.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
I don't don't care. My daughter ain't.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Dating no bleaps um Terry has Terry had repeatedly apologized
for that, and under the guise of invasion of privacy.
The problem with that is, even if it's under the
guise of invasion to privacy, the fact that you hold
those beliefs in private and won't share them publicly arguably

(34:24):
makes you a worse human being, because if you're going
to have those kind of convictions, stand by them regardless,
even if they're even if they're abhorrent at best.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I would never have been racist in public if I
had known it was going to be.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Exactly no, either be whole ass in something or not
asked at all.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
I'm not defending his position, but I'm guessing his point
of view was black people are fine and they're good
for other people, but not for my daughter.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
I will be the first person to say my mom
didn't want me dating black girls when I was younger.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
I have dated black girls and it was against my
mother's better winn.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
And it's the thing is is my mother grew up
in a time where that was considered a prevalent opinion,
and she is welcome to be entitled to that belief.
I do not share that belief. I am not dating
a black girl currently. I am very happily involved with Eva,
who you've seen on my Facebook page.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
We are very happy together.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
But it wouldn't matter to me if evil with white
black brown are red as long as we were happy together, right.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
I don't have a whole lot else to say. I mean,
he lived, he lived a long life. He lived a
lot longer than his peers, many of them. He I
wasn't sad when he died. I was kind of like, huh,
the world, the world. I wasn't saying when Ozzie died either,

(35:53):
And I love Black Sabbath and I love Ozzie's music,
But like these guys were like a thousand years old.
You know, they had lived good lives, and you know,
could they have lived longer, sure, But like I kind
of look at the way when Prince died, Like I
was sad when Prince died, the world lost a beautiful artist.
And then he went a little too soon. But like

(36:16):
you know, guys, yeah, that that that's too soon. You know,
we don't we shouldn't be dying at fifty, but we do,
some of us, Like over the years, like we've done
a lot of tribute shows here like when Alan Rickman died,
Carrie Fisher when she died, David Bowie, Prince, some wrestlers

(36:37):
I think, like Pat and I did a Bruno show
a King Kong Bunny when he died in Vader Gosh.
We've we've done a lot of tribute shows on this network,
the ones where I think I've really like I've lost it,
where I could not keep composed Owen Hart, but he
died so tragically. You know, I've never really gotten over

(36:58):
that guilt of a warrior, just because like the man
meant so much to me, I know, not to a
lot of other people, but.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Like I've gotten fired from my opinions of the Warrior before.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
So my point is, like, you know, I'm I'm sad
that Hogan's gone, and but but I think he will
His place in wrestling should never be forgotten, and I
don't think it will be anytime soon. I think it's
really the last thing I've saying on it. I don't
I would only add this, I don't think we should
throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes

(37:33):
to celebrity death. You know, like appreciate what they brought
to this world, which was a lot of joy, except
that that we're all kind of flawed individuals, some more
than others. And let's just move on this pension we
have for dragging people through the mud, and you know,
in speaking yellow of the dead, because over the grand
course of their life they said some things or did

(37:54):
some things that we didn't agree with or which play
out wrong. I mean, like when you compare everything to
the worst thing possible and nothing means anything.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
So the this is gonna sound weird, but here hear
me out here. I consider this the Chris ben Waugh theory. Yeah,
respects the art, respects the art, not the artist. You
can feel whatever way you want to about a person,
you cannot deny their contributions to society.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, And I've said as much about Chris bin.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Waugh for for me, for the Ben Wa saying now
that we know what we know about CTE, now that
we know what we know about concussions and the damage
they caused. For me, obviously, ben Wall was not in
the right not in his right frame of mind when
he did the things that he did. But at the
same time, he's not in his right frame of mind
when he did some of the things that he did
before that as well with the steroids and with the

(38:48):
other issues that he had had in the past too.
So you can respect the art that chris bin Waugh
produced without respecting the human being that Chrispin Waugh became
because of what he was going through. When it comes
to me for Hulk Hogan, you can respect the art
and respect the artistry that Hulk Hogan provided for us
without appreciating the kind of person that Terry Blea was

(39:12):
behind the scenes. When it comes to the constant, what's
the habitual lying the backstage politics? The biggest one for me,
and this will be the last thing I say about
the subject here. The worst thing Hulk Hogan did was
he saved his son, Nick Hogan's ass, and he should
not have done it.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Someday you will have a child and you will make
bad decisions because you love that child too much.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
I feel like that ship has kind of sailed for me,
and I agree with you. The fact that I am
not a parent kind of clouds in my judgment in
that regards compared to somebody who is a parent and
would probably try to, if not go through.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
The same steps for their children as well. It's hard
to keep the door shut when they're screaming, MA, you
got to give me some money. It's the basketball Diaries reference.
I just want the best Blad diaries. All right, let's
talk about SummerSlam.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
But let's uh real quick before we go any further. Uh,
rest in peace. Terry Jean Blea, professionally known as Hulk
Cogan at the age of seventy one, and might.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
I also add, fucked that guy, not just kidding.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
Glad you said it, because people would have taken it
seriously if I had. Let's put it this way, consider
the name of this podcast. If you thought we were
gonna sit sit here and shit on Hogan for fifty minutes,
you've got us all wrong.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, it's funny. You like you set me up. Like
you said, Harry likes to send me messages. He looks
to bother at me while I'm trying to do busy things.
I'm a very busy person, but Harry likes to send
me a message. He's like, I don't know, man, I
got some shit to say. Maybe before the podcast tonight,
you and me are going to have a fight. Man.
We get on here and I'm like, you did'd say anything?

(40:52):
He'd say anything, you know. I didn't totally disagree with.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
No, it's I'd just like getting you riled up because
it makes for a better show.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
MM feel like me all right?

Speaker 3 (41:03):
Night one of Summer I could be winning for you
yelling that you own the podcast.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Would you prefer that? Oh, SummerSlam Night one, Tiffany Stratton,
It's Tiffy time. Oh versus Jade card Gil Well, this
is my favorite matchup the night already, this is fantastic.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
What should happen and what's probably going to happen or
two different things. What should happen is Tiffany should retain
because Jade isn't there. What's going to happen is Jade's
taking the belt because they feel like they need a
return on the investment.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
They can't wait a while.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
At this point, I think you got a I think
you're running the risk of luger ringer.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Okay, it's fair so jelly rollers wrestling now, No, no
prediction for you. I honestly, dude, I've been kind of
cutting back on like the amount of paying attention of wrestling,
so I don't have I would. I mean, for me,
it's a fifty to fifty so like at the flip

(42:04):
of the coin wasn't flip one and get off the
damn bott already? Alrighty, Jade Cargill, fair enough, So explain
to me this Jerry Roll situation, Jerry Rol situations, Randy
Orton and Jerry Roll versus Drew McIntyre. Did they finally
rescue him? Did they? Did they finally rescue himro wherever

(42:26):
the hell he was stranded? Uh?

Speaker 3 (42:28):
No? Actually, to my knowledge, Drew is still over in
the UK.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Oh that's fantastic.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
So what happened was is they actually came out and
announced that if Drew doesn't get back to the US
in time, Miss is gonna take his spot in the match.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
I saw, Actually I did see the Miss TikTok where
he was like, I haven't idea. It took me a
minute to realize who it was when it's all the TikTok.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Well, Miss just came back on Raw on Monday and
he got smoked by or on SmackDown on Friday, excuse me,
and he got smoked by somebody in like three minutes,
I forget who it was. Uh, Jacob foughto m and
so I get the idea behind putting Miz into this match.
If if Drew McIntyre isn't able to get back into

(43:13):
the States because Miss and Logan Paul have history. Miss
has kind of been the guy for Hollywood in the WWE.
It's completely ingrained into his gimmick and he's starting to
make more and more of a name out there himself,
especially with the new American gladiators that are coming up.
So this was their way of trying to keep some
kind of mainstream relevancy on here, even though the big

(43:34):
heat in this match is on McIntyre, because McIntyre is
the one that Claymore Jelly roll at Saturday Night's main event.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
He explain why Jerry Roll.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Because Travis Scott's a piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
I heard thought of weight, Yes, a ton, So instead
of now Sirtle hit the monkey, shock the monkey, all right,
cold Chamber just hit them.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
There we got my little pony works as well.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Good there versus sampunckets a little bit of their interaction
this past week. I mean, this should be booth. Guys
can work. This should be a good match.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
So I guess this depends on the theory of how
how really injured is seth Rawlins currently.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Okay explain because.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Rowlin stuck his Rowlin stuck his knee at Saturday night's
main event trying a Ca Brata Lion salt where he
does the backflip off the rope into the ring. He
stuck his knee on the landing and apparently he like
messed up his knee, but that was to cover for
a different injury that he was dealing with, and the
belief is is that that injury isn't as bad as anticipated,
and there's talk that he might come back after this

(44:49):
match in order to cash in money in the bank.
If I'm a betting person and Rawlins is not involved,
don't be surprised if Punk takes the title here.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
It's a bit of a hot potato with that belt,
don't you think a little bit? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Uh Uso Back to Guther, which I mean, we have
you got to sink with as long as Roman rains
his title reign was we hadn't seen really that many
title changes over the course of the last four years
in the w w E.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
I you know, it's funny you mentioned about like they
gotta Shoto get off the pot with Jade Cargill. I
kind of feel that way about seem Punk where you
brought him back and you've done some of the big
matches already. No, And does he need the belt? No?
But also, if you're gonna keep him around for a
while and you need somebody at the top of the
company besides Cody, it's got to be Punk and you

(45:39):
know in which case, I know the thing's a prop,
but so what the prop has meaning. I think you
got to put the belt on on Punk at some point,
and I think putting I think putting Punk over on
Gunther gutheruh is not the world's worst idea.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Well, I still stand by my statement that I've made before.
I would not be surprised to see Punk win. I'm
a fatally picking Gunther, if only because I do think
that the Gunther story ends with Sammy Zay taking the
title from Gunther at Mania next year.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Eh. But but but again, they can just get the
title back on him. It's not like, of course, of course,
there's nothing stopping that from happening.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
I mean, ask Jay Uso and then tell Rakeisi to
shut the fuck up while you're at it.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Uh. The judgment day of for cal Rodriguez and Roxanne
Perez versus Charlotte Flair and Alexa Bliss. Here's Charlotte Flair
is not to see you next Tuesday anymore since being
fair with Alexa.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Well, I guess that depends on how you want to
look at that. She's still the same. Charlotte's just people
are cheering for her because he's with Alexa. I think
Charlotte Alexa take the tech titles.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Here probably uh, Roman reigns and Jauso versus bron Breaker
and Bronson Red. That seems like a fun match.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
What should happen and what will happen are two different things.
Braun and Bronson need this win in order to legitimize them.
It's not gonna happen. Jay Usho pins Braun Breaker.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
To be fortunately, because if this, if this group doesn't
get good wins, then what you know, your risk becoming
the NWOB.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
Team might as well be Horace, Vincent and Stevie Ray
in there.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yep, h Sammy's anderus carrying Cross with Scarlett Across Winds.
Zayne has to say the words Cross was right. If
Zane wins Cross would say I was wrong? Oh goody Uh?

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I think Cross winds here. I think Cross has signed
a new deal and they've been kind of keeping it
hush hush and with the ground swallow support that Cross
has received recently, I think you have to give him something,
and Sammy kind of giving into those darker edges of
his character, kind of like what we saw with the
Conspiracy theorist Sammy Zayin would give him more of an
edge and more of a more of a ground to

(47:44):
stand on as he gets ready to, as I said,
go towards glounter in the future. Uh.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Then we have Night two. We have John c to Codo.
So I saw a little bit of their interaction on SmackDown,
and I don't feel like they've progressed John Cena's character
at all. Mmmm. No, I mean I can.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Oh, they're they're kind of turning them into Holly Rock
if you remember that.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Okay, Well, what I don't want to be here. I
want to go make movies.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Yes, exactly, the two thousand and three Rock exactly.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
That's not very interesting.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
I don't disagree with you, but that's what it seems
like they're doing with him. And I mean, if you
think about it, with him being aligned with the final
Boss Rock, that does sort of make sense.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Sure, So this is a street fight, so you know
they'll have both of these guys, can work and do
fun stuff.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Everybody and their uncle will get involved, probably Rakishi because
he's somebody's uncle. But seriously, I heard talks of a
double turn here. Would you be interested in that?

Speaker 2 (48:44):
I mean, I liked when Cody was a bad guy
in AEW.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
And I think that same bad guy character that he
had in AEW that, I'm what's right for you, even
if you don't realize it would work in the WWE.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Currently, I totally agree with that.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
The problem is is Cody is in the position right
now where Sina was before Sena left for Hollywood, where
he's the guy doing all the meat and greets, He's
the guy doing all the makele wishes, He's the guy
doing all the radio appearances. Can you sacrifice Cody as
that person in order to turn him heel?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Have we ever fully fleshed out Cody versus them punk Like?
Have we fully gotten.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
That no one on one match has not happened, so.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
That needs to happen at WrestleMania And I think this
is maybe this is the beginning of us getting there,
this being the second half of the year and all
Naomi triple threat for the Women's World Championship. Naomi versus Three,
Ripley versus The Sky Mean, I can't believe they put
the title on Naomi. Did you watch Evolution? No?

Speaker 3 (49:44):
All right, you owe it to yourself to go watch
the main event. Eo versus Rhea is one of the
best matches of the year until Naomi Cash is in.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
All right.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
I have nothing against Naomi. I don't think she's had
the Her seat with caution character has worked for her.
It's revitalized her. It's made her a hell of a
lot more interesting than she was as Sasha Banks's bitch.
The problem is is Naomi is a good worker in
a division with great workers.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Currently, so we have Becky lyn versus Lyra val Karia
what Valkyria right lyrava Stephanie Vader all over again? Oh
that shit was funny.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
Legitimately notice qualification, no count out, last chance match for
the title, Becky change If Lynch wins, Valkyria can no
longer challenge the title for as long as Lynch's champion.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, I think Becky, Becky wins Lyra's uh.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Lyra's done all she can do with the uh with
the Intercontinental title. Do you remember when Chelsea finally dropped
the US title to Zelina Vega. Yes, it's similar to
that for me in the fact that I think that
she's reached that Chelsea Green level. She's done all she
can do with this belt. She needs something else, she
needs something better to sink her teeth into. And we're

(51:06):
starting to see more and more of a crowd reaction
to Lyra as well. So I would not be surprised
to see Lyra get bumped up to that main event
women's level on Monday Night Raw, even coming off of
the loss to Becky.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
All right, and then we have Solo to Jacob Patu
in the steel cage. This is gonna be my favorite
match of the night. I Solo is fine. You know,
the worst thing about him is his character. So him
and Jacob Fatu in a steel cage where you know,
the whole gimmick is the goons can't get involved, but
they're gonna get involved. Jacobatu can really brutalize so Solazicoa

(51:40):
in the cage. Yeah, I think. I think my man
Jacobatu gets the title back here. I agree.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
And the reason I say that is we talked about
this before for Solo. My problem with Solo so CoA
has nothing to do with Solo, It's that they keep
surrounding him with people who are better than he is
at pro wrestling, Jacob Fatu, j C.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Matteo. And we have Dominic mysterial versus AJ styles for
the champion, you know, and Dominic gets put over by
another legend.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
And that's actually what I do think is gonna happen.
I think Dom wins here because AJ got the pinfall
on Raw in the sixth person tag, because it was
AJ and the Kabuki Warriors Oscar and Kyrie sayin taking
on Dom Rock Ellen Live and AJ pinned Dom with
the phenomenal form on Raw, and you know what they say. Traditionally,
if wrestling history is anything to go by, he who

(52:32):
stands tall on the go home loses at the pay
per view, he.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Goes through It also that to Whyatt's six versus the
Mexicans versus the versus the the Axioms versus the old
indie guys versus the black guys.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
The use of the views and opinions of Mark Radlage.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
What are they not black? What do you want from me? Well?

Speaker 3 (52:59):
I think I think Angelo's mocha.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
It's racist, It's factual. I'm pretty sure made of chocolate.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
I didn't say chocolate. I said he's I said he's mocha.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
That would make him coffee for the record. Anyway, it's
a six pack table ladders and chans match. Well, this
will be fun to watch people hang off stuff and
get the ship beat out of them.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Here's my problem here. It's the match should be fun,
but this is going to be a cluster fuck.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
That's all I want out of that match, though. I
just want to see a lot of human body falling
off ladders on the heady. You know what it is.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
It's it's they're kind of paying tribute to tables, ladders
and chairs because SummerSlam is the twentieth anniversary of the
first tables ladders and chairs match. Really Summer Slam two thousand,
twenty fifth anniversary Summer Slam two thousand.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
It's twenty five years since the Year of All Lord
two thousand.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
We're getting old, man, you more so than me, But
we're getting.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Old today, I asked. I was having a conversation with Fancy,
I called my chatchy t Fancy. I said, Fancy, I
have questions, questions about rent and real estate and life,
the universe and everything and Fancy gave me answers and
I blinked twice, and I said, Fancy, I pray for
the media to hit and Fancy said, I appreciate your

(54:18):
gallows humor, but it could be realistic for just a moment,
just a moment.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Oh, Harry, here's your one chance, Fancy, don't let me down.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Well, now it comes to it. Now, it comes to it.
Our portion of the show where we recognize one special
indie brand of show and this is what you made
me watch two nights because you hate me, Like I
haven't got a million other things to fucking do.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Honestly, the show was shorter than I thought it would be.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
The two nights wasn't that bad? Yeah, I'm making more
out of it than his. Here we are. The two
nights clock in at five and a half hours total.
The tenth annual Scenic City Invitational from the chattanoogachu Chu
that lives in Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
From the Red Bank Arena in home of t we
the Tennessee Wrestling Experience. Scenic City has been a thing
in the Smith South. Are you familiar with the Battle
of Los Angeles? I am familiar with the Are you
familiar with the Ted Petty Invitational, the former I W
a mid South one.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
I am less so familiar with.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Are you familiar with C CW's Best of the.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Best, I've heard it exists.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
The point being is that this is kind of the
South the Southeast version of those particular tournaments.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
You get a group of guys.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
All around, and sometimes you bring in outsiders, such as
we saw with Vinnie Masseo, who I'm sure you're familiar with.
Somewhat Cruel was there as well, you love you only
I recognize I.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Was gonna say, I know you love you some cruel.
And the fat black guy dresses a ninja turtle. That
was bo Jack. I like him. I like BoJack.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
BoJack reminds me of hood Foot, just without the violence.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Well, I do love me some Hoodfoot, I'm aware. My
question is why is he dressed as a ninja turtle.
I don't have a good answer for that. Sorry, Alright,
I'm just gonna kind of read through these and get
your general opinions on the matter. So we have uh
Night One Night one Manders Versus and Manders and Jaden Newman,

(56:28):
I remember you. Manders was with the Reverend Dan Wilson
and they defeated Adam Priest and Aaron Wade. We had
Channing Thomas world Cla beating Vinnie Masaro.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
So my favorite part of this match was nothing to
do with the performers in the ring and then everything
to do with the performer outside of the ring. Sydney
Baccabella aka for those who aren't in the no Joey
Eastman is one of the most entertaining managers.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
With Poe dressed up as a character from the band Mayhem.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
He was the one that was he doing the old
school promoter gimmick with the Hall of Famering on his finger.
Oh okay and for me uh for Joey Eastman, Sydney Buckabella,
call him what you want to whatever. The point being
is that he is arguably the best manager in independent
wrestling today.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Okay enough. Diego Hill defeated Terry Yaki dive bomb Diego
Hill versus Terry Yoki. Yes, I also order kayaki when
I go to the Chinese food bffet.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
I don't eat Chinese food. I'm not a fan.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Hunter Drake defeated bo Jack Boo Racism.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
The finish was impressive with purple haze, though that's code
read off of bo Jack's back.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Yeah, that was pretty cool. Uh, Colby Carrino, Now explain
to me which Karina this is?

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Okay, are you familiar with Steve.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Hill here with Steve Carrino? Yes, his son, Ah, okay,
his son also looks one hundred years old.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Well, I think it's the blonde diy job.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Honestly. Well, that drugs are bad.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
They have the conversation about it after the match. I
don't know how much you get or didn't pay attention there.
Kobe Krino was very publicly known as being a very
heavy drug addict for a while, to the point that
it almost killed him. And then he got back into
pro wrestling again and now he is a father with
two kids of his own, trying to make something of himself.

(58:25):
And the talk was is that Kolbe was about to
get signed before COVID hit and fucked everything sideways.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Well, speaking of fucking the sideways, he defeated Cody manhorn
Casey Owens, defeated Brittisen, Mad Doc Connolly defeats Mortar Jamison,
Shook defeated carry Ja, and finally Cruel defeated Tim Bosby,
which was fun.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
That was a fun match, all right, So a couple
of things to talk about from these particular results here,
more so people rather than matches. UH. Well, one match
in particular, though, Jamison Shook versus Gary j was my
favorite match at Night one, and Gary Jay is arguably
one of the most underrated talents and independent professional wrestling.
Part of a tag team called Unsigned and Don't Care

(59:11):
with uh Aaron with the Baddest Man on the Planet
Aaron Williams. It's a great team name the Baddest Man
on the Planet Aaron Williams. They are both fantastic professional
wrestlers and even though they are unsigned, they should be
speaking of people who should be signed. You mentioned the
main event Cruel and Tim Bosby Independent Wrestling. Enjoy Tim Bossby.

(59:34):
Why you have him because you will not have him
for much longer.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Yeah, he's gonna end up in the WW you think,
oh one thousand? Okay? Night two we have Jaden Newman
versus Garry Jay Drake versus Diamond Bag, d w Dovehill
Dive Bomb, sure Casey Owens versus h Called the Cano Jr.
Mad Dog Colly versus Channing Tatum. Jami's intentionally fucking up

(01:00:05):
all the Daves. Though Jamison Stuck defeats Croll Boo uh
in Tank with Dan Wilson defeated Viniemus Arrow and then
this is the This is the only one that stuck
out to me, only because there was eighty seven guys
coming out and one of them was a nint fat
Black Ninja Turtle. Bo Jack was BoJack, Yes, BoJack, Cody

(01:00:25):
Man Horn Mortar, and uh Teriyaki defeated Amina Bellamont, Danny O'Ryan,
Hakeim Young, and Shimbashi.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
That's the match that had the spot with the grenade.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Oh yes, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
So basically the very thought that I had in my
head when that happened was is great Rosita comes to Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
I'm nice because that was something.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Straight out of the you know, the the crazy ass
tag matches they would have on night three of the
Battle Los Angeles. Sure, Like, have you ever seen the
clip of Juician Juice and Likeer putting his thumb up
Chuck Taylor's ass.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I have not, but that sounds wonderful. It's Battle of.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Los Angeles Juice and Leger Thub And the best part
about it is Excalibur calls it completely serious.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Of course he does, all right, The Action title match
is Tim Bosby with Dylan Hayes defeating Hal Davis. Yeah,
Tommy Davis at I'm so tired, Harry Davis at ten
minutes and fifteen seconds anything.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
Um Shenanigan's a foot but in fairness kind of expected.
So what you didn't watch probably is the Action's Future
shoot so case, which happened in the afternoon of night two.
You didn't have to watch that. It wasn't part of
the tournament. It's part of the weekend, but not part
of the tournament. This match was set up on there. Uh,
Tommy Davis is Tommy Davis is small. Like I'm watching

(01:01:56):
this year and I'm thinking to myself, he reminds me
of He reminds me of a young Brian Damie and
the way that he conducts himself in the ring, the
way that he handles himself. He's a subpar promo, but
he's still he's one hell of an athlete. The problem
is is, even by current independent wrestling standards, Tommy Davis
is small and that's going to work against him.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
All right. And then the finals of the Scenic Invitational
tournament is a four way elimination match. Jamison Schnuck defeated
Hunter Drake and Casey Owens and mad Dog Connolly. The
whole thing took sixteen minutes and ten seconds.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
So of this of this show, I came out very
impressed with Jamison Shuk. I was not super familiar with
him going in. I came out of this week, out
of these two shows, very impressed with Jamison Jamison Schuck.
I was also very impressed with Casey Owens, who is
part of the Good Hand in twe and Action Wrestling,
alongside a guy who I'm a huge fan of in

(01:02:52):
Sugar Dunkerton or Shook d as he's now known.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
All right, well, folks, Mark's going to bed. I still
have four tiktoks I gotta read for and then I
can go to bed. I'm so tired, poor Mark. I
never stop Sarry real.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
Quick before we get out of here, let me give
everybody some quick recommendations here. Yeah, these kinds of shows
aren't going to be for everybody, especially if you're tired
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Guy is that guy?

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
That being said? The cool thing about IWTV is for
ten dollars a month, you can get your choice of
almost four hundred different promotions, and I guarantee you of
those four hundred promotions, you will find something you like
for ten bucks a month.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Yeah, and you flipping through it looking for this. I
actually saw some stuff. I you know, if I had time,
I would actually watch this. A lot of really good
stuff on there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
And the thing about that, what I would say to
that is is shows like this are an opportunity to
see people that will be on a Summer Slam in
the future, that will be on and all In in
the future.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
True, that will be.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
On a major wrestling event in the future. You are
seeing the next era of wrestling right now, in addition
to getting to see some of the past of wrestling,
people like Vinnie Masserro, people like Tank mixing it up
with the new generation in order to help them prepare
for that journey on the way up the ladder as
they wind their careers down.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
All right, folks, this has been an edition of the
Indie Siders. I don't know when we're doing this year.
We're not. We're not set up yet.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
That was one of those things I was going to
talk to you about, but clearly you're too tired to
do that tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
We'll set it up tomorrow. No, No, no, we can talk
over the shows over but yes, there'll be an Indie
Siders sometime in the near far future. However, it's your
turn to pick this past week which fucking weaker Man. Sunday,
myself and Jesse start to reviewed The Bad Voice from
nineteen eighty three, The Basketball Diaries, and Over the Edge

(01:04:54):
of nineteen seventy nine. Monday, myself, Robert and Alexis argued
about Fantastic four First Steps. Yesterday, Alexis and David reviewed
K Pop Demon Hunters. Tomorrow, myself and Seawan comer we'll
be looking at the Naked Gun trilogy, gearing up for
the Naked Gun movie that is coming out this weekend,

(01:05:15):
and we will be reviewing it this coming Monday. On
damn you, Hollywood. There will be no show on Sunday
because I will be watching SummerSlam, because it's my right,
there's my right under Prima Nacta to watch SummerSlam and
not podcast, right hey.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
And also because we told our women we'd be watching
Summer Slim and we don't want to make liars out
of ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
That's correct. I never want to be a liar, don't
want to be hokkin, all right, brother, brother, I'm so tired. Well,
be safe and behave. Gotta get gos get that's gotta

(01:06:04):
got get London.

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The IndySiders: Scenic City Invitational (2025)

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