April 18, 2025 • 28 mins
This week on Ready Set Live, Gary interviews Dr. Pedram Navab, FAASM & Author
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hello, I'm Gary Quinn and welcome to another episode of
Ready Set Live. My guest today is doctor Pedrum Navab,
author of Sleep Reimagined, The Fast Track to a Revitalized Life,
which is a bold, science based guide to transforming how
we sleep and ultimately how we live. Doctor Navab is
(00:46):
a BORED certified neurologist and sleep medicine expert with over
fifteen years of experience. A Fellow of the American Academy
of Sleep Medicine, he currently practices in Orange County using
cutting edge cognitive behavior therapy. Don't go away, I'll be
right back with this brilliant thinker and sleep pioneer. Welcome
(01:12):
to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Thank you so much, Gary, It's great to be here.
I'm a big fan of the show.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Great. You know your book, I Believe is a Sleep
Reimagined is a revolution of new thinking and you know,
mixed with old thoughts. But what was the moment that
sparked it for you or catalyst?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You know, I've been doing sleep sleep now for twenty
years and cognitive behavioral therapy is the gold standard for
treating insomnia. But I wanted to do a book that
not only was kind of objective, but also showcased patients stories,
(01:57):
so if you can. You know, in the beginning of
the book there's like ten case histories, and I think
that's really the only way that people can relate is
if they can relate to a patient who's undergoing the
same sleep as they are. And I wanted to kind
of put that out there, so it's a different way
of kind of narrating a book or telling a story.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Basically, do you think that when person doesn't sleep, I
know that raises a stress level or anxiety and could
cause depression. Have you noticed there's a correlation between depression
and not sleeping.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, I mean sleep has got such a huge impact
on everything, anything from mood to infections, to memory to
how good you feel metabolism. There's definitely a connection between
depression and sleep. It's kind of hard to say because
depressed people do sleep, but lacking sleep also makes you depressed,
(03:02):
so it's unclear whether it's bi directional, but for sure
we know there's a significant connection between mood disorders and
lack of sleep.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And isn't it there's some truth that if you go
to bed after midnight, your celves aren't able to regenerate well.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So, yeah, that's an interesting question because a lot of
patients come to me and they tell me, you know,
would it make a difference if I slept at midnight
and woke up at eight in the morning as opposed
to go in to bed at ten and waking up
at six, because I'm still getting my eight hours of sleep.
But the body actually works better if you go to
(03:43):
bed earlier at eight at ten pm because it's more
closely linked to your circadian rhythm. That's more of a
natural way our body has progressed. And that's one of
the reasons that daylight savings time is so dangerous for
the body, because you know, the light prevents you from
going to sleep earlier, and so that's why standard time
(04:07):
is a much healthier way to go to sleep.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
You describe sleep as more than just rest, it's a
spiritual and biological reset. What do you mean by biological reset?
Does it mean that if you do go to bed
early and rise early that you're able. I know, I
(04:31):
function better that way than if I go to bed late.
I feel miserable the next day.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yes, yeah, I mean our circadian rhythm is more linked
to a natural cycle. You know, when the sun sets
and when it rises kind of in a natural timeline
as opposed to daylight saving. So it's a lot healthier
for you. Absolutely. And also, I mean, you know, this
(04:58):
book obviously outlines the cognitivivial therapy portion of sleep. That
the book that I'm coming out with in September that
takes a more spiritual aspect of sleep, and that aligns
more with the Buddhist way of thinking about sleep and
letting sleep just be just let it be natural, the
(05:22):
way you fall asleep, just let go of everything. And
that's very That's some of the things that I've really
just picked up recently, which I which I completely advocate.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Did you find that you had a sleep disorder ever?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, so we're all we're all residents in the hospital
before become like physicians, actual physicians, and so you know,
I really actually was a really great sleeper before med school.
Everything change after med school because you know, you're up
studying for exam, you're up, you know, during clinical rotations
(06:05):
taking care of patients. You're getting maybe three or four
hours of sleep. So from that aspect, my sleep was
completely disrupted. And I know I've spoken to kind of
Gary about this, but during residency on a on a
road trip from Arizona to California, I actually fell asleep,
(06:28):
and yeah, it was pretty tragic. I almost died. I
was unconscious for god know how many hours. I was
helicoptered back to the University of Arizona where I was
doing my residency, and I almost didn't make it. Actually,
so that and that what really, that's what really interested
(06:49):
me in sleep and how lack of sleep can lead
to so many untoured side effects. In sequel, so.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Did I mean, is there a time that when you
were driving you just just checked out or you just
fell asleep and smashed into Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And the funny thing about sleep is it's more dangerous
than actually drinking. I mean, they've done studies were shown
where they've shown that patients who are drunk are actually
in some way safer than people who are sleepy, because
when you're drunk, you actually are trying to make an
effort to be awake and to not be as dangerous,
(07:30):
whereas when you're sleep just comes so naturally that you
don't have the you don't get that feeling where you
can just kind of stop. It just happens naturally, and
it's that micro second of sleep that really does you
in and that's probably what happened with me on that trip.
(07:52):
But you know, thankfully I'm alive, but that really changed
my experience and trajectory of life in general.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
If you could give a one tip to someone who's
suffering with this sleep disorder or they've been on a
bad habit, what would be you know, I know, don't
drink caffeine, sure, meditate, exercise, you know, change your daily
you know thoughts. What would be the tip or at
(08:19):
least two tips or three tips that would just be basic. Yeah,
you know that people could just say, okay, well I
should try that.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So yeah, so that's a great question. The first tip
really is to not be anxious about sleep. A lot
of people have what we call performance anxiety, and I
feel with all the gadgets that have come out with
the aura ring and how much rem sleep you're getting
slow wave sleep, people are so concerned about sleeping, and
(08:49):
sleeping is natural. Sleep doesn't ask anything of you. You
just have to let go of everything, kind of surrender.
So that would be a big thing for me. Just
don't fret about it. It'll come naturally. Don't say I
need to go to sleep. Just invite sleep. Just let go.
(09:11):
That's one of the big keys. The second one would
be to looking at the clock. I think is one
of the worst things you can do before you go
to bed or when you wake up from sleep, because
you get fixated on the time, and when you wake
up at a certain hour and it's three o'clock in
(09:32):
the morning and you look, you just get more anxious.
So that never serves anyone at all. And then the
third tip I would say is get up at the
same time each morning. That is absolutely critical because you
want to keep your pattern consistent. They've shown consistencies actually
(09:53):
better than the number of hours that you sleep, so
it's better to actually be more consistent in your go
in a bed and wake up time, especially wake up time.
Then getting eight hours of sleep, that's that's super important.
Get up at the same time, even if you're sleepy,
because that establishes a circadian rhythm for you and you'll
(10:13):
sleep much better later on.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The other thing is what type of let's say, exercise
or do you have a rhythm of your your You
know we all have a you know I exercise, I
eat this, I do this. I know you swim. What
is your what is your regiment for the week or
the day that you used to start your day.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So I mean, I eat a breakfast, I go to work.
After work, I swim a lot, and I know Gary
likes to swim, so I'm a swimmer and I do
that for maybe an hour, and I work out for
an hour and maybe run for half an hour, but
I try to do that by six pm. You don't
(11:02):
want to exercise too late because the heat from working
out actually is not very conducive to sleep. You don't
want to generate heat. And that's why eating too late
is not great either, because your body is using heat
to break down food and your body just gets hot.
So yeah, that's that's what I would say. But exercise
(11:24):
is great. It increases your endorphins and makes you excited,
but you just don't want to do it very close
to that time.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Would you call yourself an overachiever? You're also an attorney? Yeah,
what was that about?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah? You know, so I didn't go into school thinking
I was going to be a physician. I actually wanted
to be a professor in film or English, and I
did grad school for that, and then you know, I
had an advisor that didn't work out so well, and
I always had an interest in medicine, so I decided
(12:02):
to do that and then I kind of finish my
residency and I was like, you know, I'm I'm I
also want to you know, I always wanted to be
an attorney too, So why I do that as well.
It's just that I have a lot of different interests,
you know, and it's it's hard to just pick one career.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And you also lived in Japan.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I did, and that was also actually one of the
reasons that I became a sleep physician. I don't know
if I told you this before, Gary, but I had
had a roommate in Japan. He was a sleepwalker, and
so I would see him, you know, late at night,
(12:46):
just walking and I knew nothing about medicine at that point,
because I, you know, I was an undergrad. I was
like twenty twenty one, and I see him just kind
of walking with that saying anything, going from room to room,
try to wake him up, completely not responsive, and then
he would just go back and sleep. So that was
kind of crazy. And then we lived in this village
(13:09):
called Tutska, which is right outside of Yokohama. It's an
hour away from Yokohama. It's a village, so we're surrounded
by bamboo forests, by shrines. We actually had this god
called Inariyama, which is the fox scot. It's a god
of wealth, of mercantilism, and so people would come in
(13:30):
with coins and toss it at him for you know,
for wealth or whatnot. And during that period of time,
I had an instance of sleep paralysis where I felt
like I could not move. I was hallucinating monsters of
all swords, and so I thought maybe that was linked
(13:53):
to this statue of the fox god. I was like,
where am I? I mean, I really felt like that until,
you know, until I went to med school and I
realized this was just sleep paralysis, and all weird stuff
can happen in sleep paralysis, and there was a scientific
basis for it and not this kind of spiritual but
(14:16):
it was just a weird. So all these things together
just kind of made sleep so interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
And you also lived in Bologna, Italy.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I did what was that? Like?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You were studying there.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I was studying law there during a summer program, and
that was great. I mean, I love Italy. I have
a lot of Italian friends, and I've gone there many times.
That was interesting just because I don't speak the language
that fluently, and some of the instruction was in Italian,
some in English. But the funny thing is that the
(14:49):
night that we arrived there, there was an earthquake. There
had never been an earthquake for two hundred years at Taramoto,
and then I was like, the first that irid there
are the earthquake that had to close the university. A
couple of people I think died because of a subdural humanitoma.
I was just like, this is the most insane thing ever.
(15:10):
Italians didn't know what earthquakes were, and then you know,
these students from California come in and the earthquakes all
of a sudden start. So it was just it was
kind of very a very surreal experience there.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
What does peedrum? What does the soul mean to you?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
What does the soul mean to me? Well, you know, now,
having done a lot of work with Buddhism, I feel
like the soul is something that obviously it's your kind
of inner being, but I also think it's kind of
the manifestation of other people's energy that you also incorporate.
(15:55):
You know, I think we're all kind of connected in
some ways, and the energy that I transmit to you
or you transmit to me makes my soul a little different.
But just the interconnectedness, I think is what I think
of when I think of soul. You know, especially with
(16:18):
all these kind of the Buddhist uhsophy philosophies that I've
recently read about and enjoyed and I'm trying to implement.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Have you also found that not only your patients, but
just people in general. Why would you say that they're
not happy? You know, happy is such a word that
people use. Uh oh, I'm happy, but really they're not.
What would you say is the main reason people are
(16:53):
not happy?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I mean, let's face it, where we're living in a
world where things are just chaotic and no one knows
where it's heading. So I think part of that is
the uncertainty of them not being happy. I think when
you're when you're complacent, where you're when you're at peace,
(17:16):
you have that happiness in you. And when things are
kind of chaotic and disorderly, you don't know if you're
going to be eating or where you're going to be sleeping.
That causes a lot of issues, and that's when patients
come to see me about not being able to sleep
because death of a loved one, a divorce, changing jobs, homes,
(17:41):
and so I think people don't feel happy when they
don't know where they're going or that kind of instability.
But I also think that they, you know, this world
just you're inundated with like possessions, commercials, looking a certain way,
(18:03):
and a lot of that also is the discontent from
living in this, you know, in this modern society. So yeah,
I think that's kind of where the root cause of
the unhappiness is.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
How would you describe to someone, let's say, from another
planet that comes here and says, what is this love
thing you have in America? In the world? What How
would you describe someone from let's let's pretend he's an
alien and he says, what is love?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
How would you just what is love? I mean, I
think love is being there for someone else and kind
of recognizing them for who they are and looking deeper
at them and not taking them superficially. I think it's
(18:59):
about learning to learn a person like their history, what
makes them who they are, not only now but in
the future, what they want to become. And it's also
kind of looking at yourself in the mirror and seeing
a portion of yourself in them. There's a French philosopher.
(19:24):
Her name is Julia Kristeva, and she wrote a really book,
good book called Strangers to Ourselves, and she talked about
the fact that the stranger who we deem as a stranger,
there's a certain portion of us that are in them.
(19:44):
And so if we recognize that stranger, we won't have
the same issues that we have currently with all the
you know, racism and so forth, because they're actually a
part of us, and we just have to acknowledge that
dark aspect of ourselves or you know, strange aspect.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And I think that part of love is also acceptance,
but also gratitude and sort of knowing that we're all
one in this world.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
We're all one in this crazy world, kind of going
about as best as we can. And yeah, and I
think it's acknowledging. It's acknowledging people and understanding who they
really are and trying to learn about them. And that's
what you know, when when I see patients there, they
all have their different stories and they come to me
(20:43):
at a critical point because they can't sleep or because
they're having you know, some neurological issues, and you're seeing
them at kind of at their lowest point, and you know,
I'm deeply appreciative that I can try to help them
whatever way I can't, but it's also their story and
me trying to learn about them. So I also think
(21:05):
that's kind of love trying to appreciate the more complexity.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Is there one thing that you, let's say, a bad
habit that you do. We all have bad habits. I
procrastinate and it takes me a long time to get
going and then I finally do it. Is there something
you do or even as a kid growing.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Up, Yeah, I mean I'm actually the opposite. I can't procrastinate.
I'm so ocd And I think that's one of the
reasons I get try to do all these things is
because I am like obsessed about if you give me something,
I'm gonna do it like in five minutes. I can't procrastinate.
(21:49):
So and that's not great at all because you don't
tend to kind of enjoy the moment. So for me,
if I had to say, it's taking on too much
and not kind of enjoying what I could savor for
a longer period of time. So That's what I would say.
It would be.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
If you could go back as a seven year old
and some advice you would give this seven year old
about going through the world and what you've experienced. What
would be your let's say, recommendation or your insight to
give you as a seven year old.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
So I would tell my seven year old self to
really enjoy life, don't take it so seriously, try to
get a good job where you're stable, but also don't
(22:53):
make it an end all. Really enjoy every moment because,
for example, the car accident that I had during my
residency really changed my outlook on life. I mean I
thought I had basically died, and so after that, every
day for me has been, you know, a gift, really
(23:14):
like I shouldn't be here. So I end up doing
things that I normally wouldn't do, like different pathways or careers,
because I feel like I've actually been given a second chance.
And so each day for me is something new. And
you know, one of the things that I tell my
patients to do when before the before they go to
(23:34):
sleep is a gratitude. Basically, look back at the day
that you had when you're going to sleep, tell yourself
kind of what went wrong, what went well? Leave that
behind because the next day is going to be a
new day. And that's kind of how I start every
(23:56):
every night. You know, acknowledge the good, the bad, that
doesn't matter anymore. Wipe it away because tomorrow is new,
a new day. Yeah, new day, new day. And people
really appreciate that because they don't think about it. They
you know, they realized that, yes, whatever may have happened, happened,
but it's in the past. There's some good things that
(24:17):
happened during the day. That's great, but tomorrow's new. They
can start fresh again.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
If you could go back into time or history and
ask a question to someone, who would it be and
what would you ask?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Oh my god, these questions. These are harder questions that
I had in med school during a committee, go to Okay,
who would I ask a question to? And what? So
any anytime in history, anytime, anyone, I mean, I would
(25:00):
probably go back to. Who would I go back to?
This is a very tough one because there's so many
people that I wanna that are interesting to me. I mean,
maybe going back to a Buddha, you know, and you
(25:25):
know now that I'm kind of immersed in this and
kind of asking them how their process, how did they
how did they start out questioning things and coming up
with their theory of letting go of things, of objects,
(25:48):
of finding their kind of consciousness? Like how did that
come about? You know? I mean these are very philosophical
things that you just can't all of a sudden conjure
out of nowhere, Like what kind of life experience did
he have that led him to this? And how did that?
You know, how did that get formulated? You know?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Last question? Yeah, when you leave this experience in life,
this body, this soul, how do you want to be remembered?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
How do I want to be remembered that he was? Yeah,
I mean I want to say that a life that
I've kind of lived, a life of like dignity, respect
for other people, helped them along the way, either in
(26:50):
medicine or with something I said, maybe touched them in
some way that I couldn't see, but that's kind of
changed them. And I get that from patients a lot,
you know, they come and they said, well, you said
this to me, and I really resonated with me. I
changed my life something like that, even something small that
(27:15):
A change maker.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, he was a change maker.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, I mean yeah, I mean, I mean yeah, I
mean I would put myself up in that pedical, but
just even a minor change. I think living life with
gratitude and allowing others to kind of see how how
what a joy it is to live every day.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Excellent. Thank you so much for joining me today. It
was a pleasure. If people would like to buy the book,
it's on Amazon or at all Barnes and Nobles Sleep Reimagined,
and you can also check out Uh the Doctor at
his Instagram or website. And thank you so much for
(27:58):
being here.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, thank you so much much, Gary. Thank you for
having me. Really enjoyed our.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Converse and we're looking forward to your new book.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about that. Actually, that's going to
be very interesting.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Thank you for joining me today on this special edition
of Ready Set Live. Until next time, be well,
Hello, I'm Gary Quinn and welcome to another episode of
Ready Set Live. My guest today is doctor Pedrum Navab,
author of Sleep Reimagined, The Fast Track to a Revitalized Life,
which is a bold, science based guide to transforming how
we sleep and ultimately how we live. Doctor Navab is
(00:46):
a BORED certified neurologist and sleep medicine expert with over
fifteen years of experience. A Fellow of the American Academy
of Sleep Medicine, he currently practices in Orange County using
cutting edge cognitive behavior therapy. Don't go away, I'll be
right back with this brilliant thinker and sleep pioneer. Welcome
(01:12):
to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Thank you so much, Gary, It's great to be here.
I'm a big fan of the show.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Great. You know your book, I Believe is a Sleep
Reimagined is a revolution of new thinking and you know,
mixed with old thoughts. But what was the moment that
sparked it for you or catalyst?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
You know, I've been doing sleep sleep now for twenty
years and cognitive behavioral therapy is the gold standard for
treating insomnia. But I wanted to do a book that
not only was kind of objective, but also showcased patients stories,
(01:57):
so if you can. You know, in the beginning of
the book there's like ten case histories, and I think
that's really the only way that people can relate is
if they can relate to a patient who's undergoing the
same sleep as they are. And I wanted to kind
of put that out there, so it's a different way
of kind of narrating a book or telling a story.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Basically, do you think that when person doesn't sleep, I
know that raises a stress level or anxiety and could
cause depression. Have you noticed there's a correlation between depression
and not sleeping.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, I mean sleep has got such a huge impact
on everything, anything from mood to infections, to memory to
how good you feel metabolism. There's definitely a connection between
depression and sleep. It's kind of hard to say because
depressed people do sleep, but lacking sleep also makes you depressed,
(03:02):
so it's unclear whether it's bi directional, but for sure
we know there's a significant connection between mood disorders and
lack of sleep.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And isn't it there's some truth that if you go
to bed after midnight, your celves aren't able to regenerate well.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So, yeah, that's an interesting question because a lot of
patients come to me and they tell me, you know,
would it make a difference if I slept at midnight
and woke up at eight in the morning as opposed
to go in to bed at ten and waking up
at six, because I'm still getting my eight hours of sleep.
But the body actually works better if you go to
(03:43):
bed earlier at eight at ten pm because it's more
closely linked to your circadian rhythm. That's more of a
natural way our body has progressed. And that's one of
the reasons that daylight savings time is so dangerous for
the body, because you know, the light prevents you from
going to sleep earlier, and so that's why standard time
(04:07):
is a much healthier way to go to sleep.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
You describe sleep as more than just rest, it's a
spiritual and biological reset. What do you mean by biological reset?
Does it mean that if you do go to bed
early and rise early that you're able. I know, I
(04:31):
function better that way than if I go to bed late.
I feel miserable the next day.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yes, yeah, I mean our circadian rhythm is more linked
to a natural cycle. You know, when the sun sets
and when it rises kind of in a natural timeline
as opposed to daylight saving. So it's a lot healthier
for you. Absolutely. And also, I mean, you know, this
(04:58):
book obviously outlines the cognitivivial therapy portion of sleep. That
the book that I'm coming out with in September that
takes a more spiritual aspect of sleep, and that aligns
more with the Buddhist way of thinking about sleep and
letting sleep just be just let it be natural, the
(05:22):
way you fall asleep, just let go of everything. And
that's very That's some of the things that I've really
just picked up recently, which I which I completely advocate.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Did you find that you had a sleep disorder ever?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, so we're all we're all residents in the hospital
before become like physicians, actual physicians, and so you know,
I really actually was a really great sleeper before med school.
Everything change after med school because you know, you're up
studying for exam, you're up, you know, during clinical rotations
(06:05):
taking care of patients. You're getting maybe three or four
hours of sleep. So from that aspect, my sleep was
completely disrupted. And I know I've spoken to kind of
Gary about this, but during residency on a on a
road trip from Arizona to California, I actually fell asleep,
(06:28):
and yeah, it was pretty tragic. I almost died. I
was unconscious for god know how many hours. I was
helicoptered back to the University of Arizona where I was
doing my residency, and I almost didn't make it. Actually,
so that and that what really, that's what really interested
(06:49):
me in sleep and how lack of sleep can lead
to so many untoured side effects. In sequel, so.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Did I mean, is there a time that when you
were driving you just just checked out or you just
fell asleep and smashed into Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And the funny thing about sleep is it's more dangerous
than actually drinking. I mean, they've done studies were shown
where they've shown that patients who are drunk are actually
in some way safer than people who are sleepy, because
when you're drunk, you actually are trying to make an
effort to be awake and to not be as dangerous,
(07:30):
whereas when you're sleep just comes so naturally that you
don't have the you don't get that feeling where you
can just kind of stop. It just happens naturally, and
it's that micro second of sleep that really does you
in and that's probably what happened with me on that trip.
(07:52):
But you know, thankfully I'm alive, but that really changed
my experience and trajectory of life in general.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
If you could give a one tip to someone who's
suffering with this sleep disorder or they've been on a
bad habit, what would be you know, I know, don't
drink caffeine, sure, meditate, exercise, you know, change your daily
you know thoughts. What would be the tip or at
(08:19):
least two tips or three tips that would just be basic. Yeah,
you know that people could just say, okay, well I
should try that.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So yeah, so that's a great question. The first tip
really is to not be anxious about sleep. A lot
of people have what we call performance anxiety, and I
feel with all the gadgets that have come out with
the aura ring and how much rem sleep you're getting
slow wave sleep, people are so concerned about sleeping, and
(08:49):
sleeping is natural. Sleep doesn't ask anything of you. You
just have to let go of everything, kind of surrender.
So that would be a big thing for me. Just
don't fret about it. It'll come naturally. Don't say I
need to go to sleep. Just invite sleep. Just let go.
(09:11):
That's one of the big keys. The second one would
be to looking at the clock. I think is one
of the worst things you can do before you go
to bed or when you wake up from sleep, because
you get fixated on the time, and when you wake
up at a certain hour and it's three o'clock in
(09:32):
the morning and you look, you just get more anxious.
So that never serves anyone at all. And then the
third tip I would say is get up at the
same time each morning. That is absolutely critical because you
want to keep your pattern consistent. They've shown consistencies actually
(09:53):
better than the number of hours that you sleep, so
it's better to actually be more consistent in your go
in a bed and wake up time, especially wake up time.
Then getting eight hours of sleep, that's that's super important.
Get up at the same time, even if you're sleepy,
because that establishes a circadian rhythm for you and you'll
(10:13):
sleep much better later on.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The other thing is what type of let's say, exercise
or do you have a rhythm of your your You
know we all have a you know I exercise, I
eat this, I do this. I know you swim. What
is your what is your regiment for the week or
the day that you used to start your day.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So I mean, I eat a breakfast, I go to work.
After work, I swim a lot, and I know Gary
likes to swim, so I'm a swimmer and I do
that for maybe an hour, and I work out for
an hour and maybe run for half an hour, but
I try to do that by six pm. You don't
(11:02):
want to exercise too late because the heat from working
out actually is not very conducive to sleep. You don't
want to generate heat. And that's why eating too late
is not great either, because your body is using heat
to break down food and your body just gets hot.
So yeah, that's that's what I would say. But exercise
(11:24):
is great. It increases your endorphins and makes you excited,
but you just don't want to do it very close
to that time.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Would you call yourself an overachiever? You're also an attorney? Yeah,
what was that about?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah? You know, so I didn't go into school thinking
I was going to be a physician. I actually wanted
to be a professor in film or English, and I
did grad school for that, and then you know, I
had an advisor that didn't work out so well, and
I always had an interest in medicine, so I decided
(12:02):
to do that and then I kind of finish my
residency and I was like, you know, I'm I'm I
also want to you know, I always wanted to be
an attorney too, So why I do that as well.
It's just that I have a lot of different interests,
you know, and it's it's hard to just pick one career.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And you also lived in Japan.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I did, and that was also actually one of the
reasons that I became a sleep physician. I don't know
if I told you this before, Gary, but I had
had a roommate in Japan. He was a sleepwalker, and
so I would see him, you know, late at night,
(12:46):
just walking and I knew nothing about medicine at that point,
because I, you know, I was an undergrad. I was
like twenty twenty one, and I see him just kind
of walking with that saying anything, going from room to room,
try to wake him up, completely not responsive, and then
he would just go back and sleep. So that was
kind of crazy. And then we lived in this village
(13:09):
called Tutska, which is right outside of Yokohama. It's an
hour away from Yokohama. It's a village, so we're surrounded
by bamboo forests, by shrines. We actually had this god
called Inariyama, which is the fox scot. It's a god
of wealth, of mercantilism, and so people would come in
(13:30):
with coins and toss it at him for you know,
for wealth or whatnot. And during that period of time,
I had an instance of sleep paralysis where I felt
like I could not move. I was hallucinating monsters of
all swords, and so I thought maybe that was linked
(13:53):
to this statue of the fox god. I was like,
where am I? I mean, I really felt like that until,
you know, until I went to med school and I
realized this was just sleep paralysis, and all weird stuff
can happen in sleep paralysis, and there was a scientific
basis for it and not this kind of spiritual but
(14:16):
it was just a weird. So all these things together
just kind of made sleep so interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
And you also lived in Bologna, Italy.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I did what was that? Like?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You were studying there.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I was studying law there during a summer program, and
that was great. I mean, I love Italy. I have
a lot of Italian friends, and I've gone there many times.
That was interesting just because I don't speak the language
that fluently, and some of the instruction was in Italian,
some in English. But the funny thing is that the
(14:49):
night that we arrived there, there was an earthquake. There
had never been an earthquake for two hundred years at Taramoto,
and then I was like, the first that irid there
are the earthquake that had to close the university. A
couple of people I think died because of a subdural humanitoma.
I was just like, this is the most insane thing ever.
(15:10):
Italians didn't know what earthquakes were, and then you know,
these students from California come in and the earthquakes all
of a sudden start. So it was just it was
kind of very a very surreal experience there.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
What does peedrum? What does the soul mean to you?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
What does the soul mean to me? Well, you know, now,
having done a lot of work with Buddhism, I feel
like the soul is something that obviously it's your kind
of inner being, but I also think it's kind of
the manifestation of other people's energy that you also incorporate.
(15:55):
You know, I think we're all kind of connected in
some ways, and the energy that I transmit to you
or you transmit to me makes my soul a little different.
But just the interconnectedness, I think is what I think
of when I think of soul. You know, especially with
(16:18):
all these kind of the Buddhist uhsophy philosophies that I've
recently read about and enjoyed and I'm trying to implement.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Have you also found that not only your patients, but
just people in general. Why would you say that they're
not happy? You know, happy is such a word that
people use. Uh oh, I'm happy, but really they're not.
What would you say is the main reason people are
(16:53):
not happy?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I mean, let's face it, where we're living in a
world where things are just chaotic and no one knows
where it's heading. So I think part of that is
the uncertainty of them not being happy. I think when
you're when you're complacent, where you're when you're at peace,
(17:16):
you have that happiness in you. And when things are
kind of chaotic and disorderly, you don't know if you're
going to be eating or where you're going to be sleeping.
That causes a lot of issues, and that's when patients
come to see me about not being able to sleep
because death of a loved one, a divorce, changing jobs, homes,
(17:41):
and so I think people don't feel happy when they
don't know where they're going or that kind of instability.
But I also think that they, you know, this world
just you're inundated with like possessions, commercials, looking a certain way,
(18:03):
and a lot of that also is the discontent from
living in this, you know, in this modern society. So yeah,
I think that's kind of where the root cause of
the unhappiness is.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
How would you describe to someone, let's say, from another
planet that comes here and says, what is this love
thing you have in America? In the world? What How
would you describe someone from let's let's pretend he's an
alien and he says, what is love?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
How would you just what is love? I mean, I
think love is being there for someone else and kind
of recognizing them for who they are and looking deeper
at them and not taking them superficially. I think it's
(18:59):
about learning to learn a person like their history, what
makes them who they are, not only now but in
the future, what they want to become. And it's also
kind of looking at yourself in the mirror and seeing
a portion of yourself in them. There's a French philosopher.
(19:24):
Her name is Julia Kristeva, and she wrote a really book,
good book called Strangers to Ourselves, and she talked about
the fact that the stranger who we deem as a stranger,
there's a certain portion of us that are in them.
(19:44):
And so if we recognize that stranger, we won't have
the same issues that we have currently with all the
you know, racism and so forth, because they're actually a
part of us, and we just have to acknowledge that
dark aspect of ourselves or you know, strange aspect.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
And I think that part of love is also acceptance,
but also gratitude and sort of knowing that we're all
one in this world.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
We're all one in this crazy world, kind of going
about as best as we can. And yeah, and I
think it's acknowledging. It's acknowledging people and understanding who they
really are and trying to learn about them. And that's
what you know, when when I see patients there, they
all have their different stories and they come to me
(20:43):
at a critical point because they can't sleep or because
they're having you know, some neurological issues, and you're seeing
them at kind of at their lowest point, and you know,
I'm deeply appreciative that I can try to help them
whatever way I can't, but it's also their story and
me trying to learn about them. So I also think
(21:05):
that's kind of love trying to appreciate the more complexity.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Is there one thing that you, let's say, a bad
habit that you do. We all have bad habits. I
procrastinate and it takes me a long time to get
going and then I finally do it. Is there something
you do or even as a kid growing.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Up, Yeah, I mean I'm actually the opposite. I can't procrastinate.
I'm so ocd And I think that's one of the
reasons I get try to do all these things is
because I am like obsessed about if you give me something,
I'm gonna do it like in five minutes. I can't procrastinate.
(21:49):
So and that's not great at all because you don't
tend to kind of enjoy the moment. So for me,
if I had to say, it's taking on too much
and not kind of enjoying what I could savor for
a longer period of time. So That's what I would say.
It would be.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
If you could go back as a seven year old
and some advice you would give this seven year old
about going through the world and what you've experienced. What
would be your let's say, recommendation or your insight to
give you as a seven year old.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
So I would tell my seven year old self to
really enjoy life, don't take it so seriously, try to
get a good job where you're stable, but also don't
(22:53):
make it an end all. Really enjoy every moment because,
for example, the car accident that I had during my
residency really changed my outlook on life. I mean I
thought I had basically died, and so after that, every
day for me has been, you know, a gift, really
(23:14):
like I shouldn't be here. So I end up doing
things that I normally wouldn't do, like different pathways or careers,
because I feel like I've actually been given a second chance.
And so each day for me is something new. And
you know, one of the things that I tell my
patients to do when before the before they go to
(23:34):
sleep is a gratitude. Basically, look back at the day
that you had when you're going to sleep, tell yourself
kind of what went wrong, what went well? Leave that
behind because the next day is going to be a
new day. And that's kind of how I start every
(23:56):
every night. You know, acknowledge the good, the bad, that
doesn't matter anymore. Wipe it away because tomorrow is new,
a new day. Yeah, new day, new day. And people
really appreciate that because they don't think about it. They
you know, they realized that, yes, whatever may have happened, happened,
but it's in the past. There's some good things that
(24:17):
happened during the day. That's great, but tomorrow's new. They
can start fresh again.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
If you could go back into time or history and
ask a question to someone, who would it be and
what would you ask?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Oh my god, these questions. These are harder questions that
I had in med school during a committee, go to Okay,
who would I ask a question to? And what? So
any anytime in history, anytime, anyone, I mean, I would
(25:00):
probably go back to. Who would I go back to?
This is a very tough one because there's so many
people that I wanna that are interesting to me. I mean,
maybe going back to a Buddha, you know, and you
(25:25):
know now that I'm kind of immersed in this and
kind of asking them how their process, how did they
how did they start out questioning things and coming up
with their theory of letting go of things, of objects,
(25:48):
of finding their kind of consciousness? Like how did that
come about? You know? I mean these are very philosophical
things that you just can't all of a sudden conjure
out of nowhere, Like what kind of life experience did
he have that led him to this? And how did that?
You know, how did that get formulated? You know?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Last question? Yeah, when you leave this experience in life,
this body, this soul, how do you want to be remembered?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
How do I want to be remembered that he was? Yeah,
I mean I want to say that a life that
I've kind of lived, a life of like dignity, respect
for other people, helped them along the way, either in
(26:50):
medicine or with something I said, maybe touched them in
some way that I couldn't see, but that's kind of
changed them. And I get that from patients a lot,
you know, they come and they said, well, you said
this to me, and I really resonated with me. I
changed my life something like that, even something small that
(27:15):
A change maker.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, he was a change maker.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, I mean yeah, I mean, I mean yeah, I
mean I would put myself up in that pedical, but
just even a minor change. I think living life with
gratitude and allowing others to kind of see how how
what a joy it is to live every day.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Excellent. Thank you so much for joining me today. It
was a pleasure. If people would like to buy the book,
it's on Amazon or at all Barnes and Nobles Sleep Reimagined,
and you can also check out Uh the Doctor at
his Instagram or website. And thank you so much for
(27:58):
being here.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, thank you so much much, Gary. Thank you for
having me. Really enjoyed our.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Converse and we're looking forward to your new book.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about that. Actually, that's going to
be very interesting.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Thank you for joining me today on this special edition
of Ready Set Live. Until next time, be well,
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