August 25, 2025 • 51 mins
Right Thinking with Steve Coplon | Guest: Robin Casarjian
This week's show called "Making Time Count with Robin Casarjian." Tune in and hear Steve and Robin have a beautiful conversation with Barbara Jean Crehan as they talk about Robin's nationally acclaimed program Making Time Count. Your heart will be touched as Robin shares words of wisdom with Barbara Jean, a person who is deeply committed to making a difference with incarcerated individuals.
https://www.talknetworkradio.com/hosts/right-thinking
This week's show called "Making Time Count with Robin Casarjian." Tune in and hear Steve and Robin have a beautiful conversation with Barbara Jean Crehan as they talk about Robin's nationally acclaimed program Making Time Count. Your heart will be touched as Robin shares words of wisdom with Barbara Jean, a person who is deeply committed to making a difference with incarcerated individuals.
https://www.talknetworkradio.com/hosts/right-thinking
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
There must be lies burning brighter somewhere.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Got to be birds.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I am hi in the sky.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Good morning, welcome to Right Thinking with Steve Copeland. I'm
your host, Steve Copeland, and thank you for tuning in.
Let's have a great day.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Good morning, everybody, glad to be with you.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Well, we're in the countdown series now, that's when I'm
calling this.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
In two more weeks, Right Thinking.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
With Steve Copeland will have its two hundredth show, and
I owe a lot of the success of why I've
been able to be on the air for two hundred
weeks to the guests that we're going to have on today.
And it's a surprise. There's more than one guest today.
Let's just start right into this. Today is episode number
one and ninety eight. Right Thinking with Steve Copeland is
(01:09):
very pleased to announce that this week's show is called
Making Time Count with Robin Cassargin.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Tune in in here.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Steve and Robin have another beautiful conversation with Barbara Jenkrean
as they talk about Robin's nationally acclaimed program, Making Time Count.
Your heart will be touched as Robin shares words of
wisdom with Barbara Jean a person who is deeply committed
to make any difference with incarcerated individuals. Robin, thank you
(01:39):
so much for wanting to be on the air with
me today.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
My joy Steve always You're wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Robin. It's really good to see you. Barbiaging.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
We did three shows in a row four weeks back
till two weeks ago. And the comments I've been getting
from people about you, they they just make me feel
good because what I like to do is I like
to connect people together that are beautiful, people that want
to make a difference in the world. And Barberaging Jim
Stovall did me a blessing when he introduced me to you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Robin. I know that you're incredibly busy, you always are.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
But you know you've been You've been doing what you
do for a long time. Your programs in prisons have
been going on for in you know, close to thirty
some years. Your book Forgiveness, A Bold Choice for a
Peaceful Heart was a bestseller thirty three thirty four five
years ago, and I've read it maybe six or seven
times now because it is the single best resource I've
(02:41):
ever come across that deals with the subject of forgiveness,
every aspect of forgiveness that anybody needs to understand and
adapt into their lives. It's covered in your book and
it is. It is just a masterpiece that everybody ought
to read.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Robin.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Your program Houses with Healing has been around for a while.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's been in.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Jeez, hundreds and hundreds of prisons. It's touched thousands and
thousands of lives. You've donated thousands of copies of Houses
of Healing to prison, making it available to people that
couldn't afford it. And so the reason that I've asked
to be on today is first of all, because I
love you so much. And seven years eight years whoa wait,
(03:27):
when was it eleven years ago? Eleven years ago? When
I was I started writ Thinking Foundation twelve years ago.
But in the very beginning, a gentleman networked me, introduced
me to you. And do you remember his name, Frederick
or Frederickson that was on your board.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I don't recall that he was.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
An elderly gentleman. He was eighty at the time.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh oh, oh, okay, Frank Ferguson.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Oh, Frank Ferguson. Yeah, see there's two aps in there.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I said. Frederick Frederickson.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, I remember what.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Brenk Ferguson said to me when I got introduced to him.
And I won't go through how I got met him,
but I got introduced to this wonderful gentleman and he
said to me, he said, Steve, this is when I
was first starting out for me my foundation and the
work that I wanted to do with financial literacy. He said, Steve,
if I was forty years younger, I would want to
(04:22):
be right there with you because what you're doing is
going to be wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
But I just can't get involved. But what I want to.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Do is I want to introduce you to Robin Cassarg
And then he sent you an email and said, Robin,
I would like you to send Houses of Healing program
to Steve and then let him preview that and then
he's going to call you.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And then do you.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Remember what happened after that? Because it's a good story
for me, go for it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I made an appointment to meet you in your office
one day and I showed up and you opened the door.
And that's been, like I said, you know, eleven going
on twelve years ago, and fortunate for you haven't been
able to get.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Rid of me since that day.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Fortunate for me.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
That's nice of you to say that. Well, well, Robin
Jim Stowball, who is also in the curriculum that you
participated in, that's now live and a jail in Illinois,
Winnebago County Jail in Rockford, Illinois, September the eighteenth, and
we're going to be live either today or tomorrow in
(05:27):
Mecklenburg County and a prison in North Carolina. And this
week also we're supposed to be live in Walton County
Jail in Florida. And so it's getting ready to take off.
If it hadn't been for the coronavirus, I think we'd
be in a whole lot more by now. But you're
part of that curriculum, and another gentleman named Jim Stoveall
(05:49):
is also part of that curriculum and the resource module
that I have in the curriculum where I have a
series called a Message from four people that are in there,
and you're you're one of the four. Like I say, well, well,
that show that we made a show out of it.
But it's also in the curriculum. I want to read
(06:09):
this verb on what that interview with you was. Let
me put my fingers on it.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Here. I got it somewhere here.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I set it aside before we start it. Okay, give
me just a second because I'm going to grab it.
I usually have it better organized than this, but okay,
I think I got it now. All right, A message
from Robin. This is what's in the curriculum in prisons,
and we made a show out of it. This interview
(06:37):
is the first in a four part series featuring four
of the most inspirational motivational people that Steve has the
privilege to the privilege to call his friends. Listening to
Robin talk about forgiveness and healing will help you move
out of the realm of lofty ideals into a practical,
grounded strategy that you can integrate into your own life. Well, Robin,
(07:00):
I listened to that in preparation for today's show. I've
listened to that message that you did nine times now,
maybe because it's powerful. It really captures the essence of
everything that I'm trying to do for trying to help
people transform their minds they're thinking into that they're incarcerated.
We're dealing with what we call the underserved population, the
(07:22):
population that many people don't really want to spend much
time with for whatever their motivations and reasons. But Robin,
I want to introduce you to Barbara Jane right now.
Barbara Jean was introduced to me by Jim Stowball, and
when she did a show a couple of weeks ago,
it was this just everything was just going real nice en,
I'll be hearing about who she is and what she does.
(07:44):
She's a world class doggie daycare, dog trainer, show dogs.
She has a vision for all kinds of things and
they call her the I guess they call her the
dog whisper because she has a sixth sense to where
she knows how to listen.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
She knows how I'll listen.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
And she's involved with an organization called Climber Associates, the
leadership organization that's international, worldwide, that's very parallel to what
your programs are and she's gone into high levels over
the last four or five years with them. And in
the show she did, she dropped the bomb on everybody.
Everybody listening to the show says, oh my gosh, jaw
(08:22):
dropping because nobody knew what she was going to talk about.
So with that said, Barbara Jean could you introduce yourself
and tell your life story in the next three or
four to five or six minutes to Robin so she'll
understand why I brought y'all together.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
All Right, Well, good.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Morning everyone, and thank you again for having me Sive.
I'm super excited to be here and wick and excited
to meet you.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Robin. It's an honor. I've heard a ton about.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
You and I'm really looking forward to chatting with you today.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So about me.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
My life story real quick is, let's see about fourteen
years ago or thirteen years ago, I was working at
Douggie Daycare and.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I'm beknownst to me, I was working alongside pre release
inmates that were our work release program. I had no idea.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
I laid my eyes on this man the first my
very first day, elbowed.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
My friend said I'm going to marry that man.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
She was like, yeah, okay, BARROGI I'm like, no, I'm
not kidding.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
He's mine. So we got to talk.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
In a couple of months later, I found out that
he was incarcerated.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
I had no idea.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
I just thought that there were a lot of really
good looking, jacked guys that work at this place, which
I wasn't completing about and I thought it was kind
of funny that they all carpooled, and you know, they
all got in the.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Same man and I didn't notice that it said, you know,
dooc on it. But we started talking and dating and
we're now married.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
And it started off in a very fairy tale like
you know, night in Shining Armor sort of scenario. And uh,
a couple of years back, my husband found himself at
the peak of his heroin addiction and I had put
(10:30):
my foot down and said, I'm taking the boys.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
We had three dogs at the time, which.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Were our kids, and uh, our our dream was always
to move to Hampshire and.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Live in a log cabin in the woods.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
And I wasn't willing to wait any longer for this drug.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Stop to stop.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
So I went when on them, I said, taking the boys,
We're going to New Hampshire.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I'm gonna nest, gonna find a spot, make a little
cozy home. I suggest you go to rehab and meet
us up.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
There when you're ready, when when you get your stuff together.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And I love you with all my heart and I want.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
To spend the rest of my life with you, and
I've drawing a really big boundary of drawing a really
big line, the state line between Massachusetts and New Hampshire.
You can come when the drugs can't. And that's that's uh,
that's my role. And so I moved to New Hampshire
with the boys, not so I knew one person in
(11:37):
the entire state. And exactly one month after I moved
up to New Hampshire, he made some poor choices. Instead
of going to rehab, he chose to go to prison.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
And the actions led.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
To an arrest and he's he's been in for this February,
will be four years now and expected to probably do
at least another four.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
So I had stuck my head on the sand for
about a year or so.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
You know, things hit the news and everything, and my
whole life of secret, dirty laundry that nobody knew about,
really it made.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
The news and aired out to everyone. So I was
just lost. So I literally just hit in the woods
of New.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Hampshire for about a solid year, kind of just isolating
myself and waking my wounds. And then I decided to
pick myself up and dust myself off and keep going,
keep on, keep on choving along. And I started a
(12:48):
personal development journey with this company, Clemmer and Associates, and
what I learned about myself was so priceless and in
value that, you know, I want to bring that to
other people. So I've started sharing all my experiences with
my husband and sending him the books and everything like that.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And it breaks my heart that I can have these
tools and.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Experiences and he doesn't, and there's no access for him
to have that. So I've stepped into to being this
devoted person that's dedicated to getting these people the tools
and the skills that they deserve to have to learn
about worthiness and love and confidence and self worth and
(13:40):
not having to hate on themselves with this self medicating loathing.
You know, my husband was at such a low when
when he was being arrested, he actually begged the officers
to just shoot him, and he was really he was
just desperate at that point. And I'm really it's important
(14:05):
to me that people, all people, and especially the underserved
and oversee the guys that aren't being heard, that they
get to.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Be they get to be a part of this too.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And so.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
As much as I've brought into myself but I've learned
about myself, I've also learned how much you want to
help other people, and so I reached out to Steve
Well At a seminary.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I met Jim Stowell.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
I told him my vision of getting these personal development.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Character based leadership.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Seminars and workshops into the prison system and he said,
you got to talk to Steve. And I've been talking
to Steve for weeks now and he said, you got
to talk to Robin. And so I just look forward
to learning as much as possible about, you know, the
steps of getting a program into prison, how it works,
(15:03):
and you know, just.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
I just to stay that how to help these guys
as men and women, these.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Individuals as much as possible, both inside and out.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
And you know, I have big visions and.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
I want to incorporate everyone to make sure no one's
left behind. And I really want to be that voice
for the overlooked, the unheard, and the well deserved, because
they're important too.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Robin, eleven twelve years of you mentoring me and helping
me get started and entree my way into prisons and
so forth to try to understand the world, the population
that you know so much about, and here we are today,
I'm bringing you the most beautiful person that has a
real life situation, but it's outside of prison as well
(15:57):
as inside of prison. What this is part of my
future is to is to continue doing the work that
I do in prisons, the radio and all that stuff.
But I've learned one thing. If when we help people
inside prisons to find who they really are, find their truth,
all the things that you do, if they come out
(16:17):
of prison and they're not better prepared to adapt to
the world, they're not going to succeed. But the other
part of that is also people on the outside have
to start to understand more of the reality of how
beautiful these people really are, that we're falling made a mistake,
and so the forgiveness aspect of people on the outside
(16:42):
that need to welcome the people and help them that
are coming out from the inside.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
It's a whole lot of stuff. But Robin, I.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Think that's a pretty good introduction from Barbara to be
introduced to you, And so I just wanted to give
you a second before you responded or said anything. Because
hers store her life, it says it's as real as
happening right now, and she's not running away from it,
she's actually embracing it, and she's seeking she's seeking the
(17:13):
truth not just for herself, but for all the others
that are just like her. And so there you have it. So,
Barbara Jane, that was absolutely beautiful. And now I'm going
to ask Robin to share anything she wants about why
she does what she does, how her programs are effective,
and anything that she might want to want to offer
(17:35):
to you that will help you get through these times
that you're struggling through that you want to reach the
goals that you've stated.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Wow. Well, first of all, you know, thank you Steve
for inviting me. Thank you for inviting me on the
show with Barbara Jean Bobajene. That was an amazing story,
as I'm sure everybody says to you after you tell
your own personal story, and just want to just a
(18:03):
you know, acknowledge you. Applaud you for your big heartedness,
for your strength that you had the clarity to move
away when you saw that there was no good way
forward without some boundaries and you set those boundaries. I
(18:25):
just really applaud you for that. But you set those
boundaries with a huge and open heart to see that
people can change, and if they do change, then you
know you're still there. But if they don't change. Then
they have to walk into that confusion and darkness by themselves,
(18:50):
you know, in terms of their person not I'm sure
not at you know, a spiritual level, but so anyway,
that's I just a applaud you and and really applaud
your commitment to helping to helping people find their way
(19:13):
back to themselves, you know, to the beauty and the
goodness and strength and the possibility of making a positive
difference for everyone. You know, you see that in people,
and you uh are able to stay firm in that vision,
(19:33):
and that is just tremendous. I just really like, you know,
thank you for who you are, and you know, for
who what you're doing and the spirit in which you
do it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
It's just awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And I just want you to know if there's a
way that I can contribute to that, uh, you know,
it would be my honor. So I was on Stay
Show a long time ago, but just really quickly, like
you Barbagine, I follow my instincts and my intuitions and
(20:10):
my heart, and I was invited to go into a prison.
Oh my goodness, it was so many years ago now, nineteen,
I don't like twenty five, twenty six years ago to
give a talk on forgiveness. As Steve mentioned, I wrote
a book on the topic, and somebody had heard me
(20:30):
give a public talk on forgiveness and said, when you're
coming to give a talk. And I'd never been in
a prison. I never thought about going into a prison.
But in the way that I speak about forgiveness in
its most expanded sense, I say, forgiveness is seeing the
light instead of the lampshade of people, or as I say,
it's not if the lampshade's there. I see the lampshade.
(20:51):
I'm not being naive, but I see it in the
context of an infinite light. And the job that we
have in terms of healing is to help people connect
to that light within themselves and then to do the
do sometimes the very hard emotional healing work that needs
to be done in order to connect to that in
(21:12):
a you know, as consistent a way as possible. So anyway,
I went in, gave the talk, and by the end
of it, I expected, as I talk about in my
book Houses of Healing, which I wrote for prisoners, I expected,
you know, two, three, four people to show up. And
when I arrived at the room at nine o'clock in
the morning. They were one hundred and twenty men waiting
(21:33):
for the talk to begin, and it was just they
were amazing and so responsive. And the psychologist said, Gee,
would you come back and teach a course? And I
thought why not. I had been teaching stress management at
a large health maintenance organization at that time called the
Harvard Community Health Plan now Harvard Vanguard, and I was
(21:54):
used to teaching and this and helping people to really
you know, the at the bottom line is is kind
of energetically aligned with that part in themselves that's peaceful,
it's wise, that's strong, and that wants to make a
positive difference in the world and really be and give love.
(22:17):
You know, how do we all have that in us?
How do we align with that? As I put it
in Houses of Healing, the book for prisoners, it's about
seeing the light instead of the lamp shape people, or
I'd say, well, I see the lamp shade of the
lamp shades there, but I see it in the context
of the light. And so anyway, I gave that talk,
I started teaching programs in the prison, and then four
(22:41):
years later I just thought this is great, but I
don't reach that many people, and maybe there's another book
to be written to try to bring the spirit and
this content to prisoners across the United States. So I
started the Lion Heart Foundation to support that work because
I knew I didn't want to take a year to
write the book unless I had a way to give
it away for right to prison libraries and prison programs.
(23:03):
And to make a long story short, there are probably
about one hundred and seventy thousand copies that have been
distributed since its publication, about seventy thousand of them donated
and the rest sold. And that's part of the way
that the Lioneheart Foundation stings itself. And then the prison
project led to a program for youth at risk, and
(23:25):
now we have a we're just launching a program for
directia staff that worked with highly at risk adolescents, particularly
in residential treatment. And so the work of the Line
Heeart Foundation has expanded. And just to kind of bring
that to a close in terms of our history, about
five years ago, the California Department of Correction and Rehabilitation
(23:49):
offered an opportunity to apply for what they call their
Innovative Grants Program. It was a joint ventured between the
California Department Career Rehabilitation and the state legislature. They came
together to to offer this program, to offer the opportunity
(24:11):
to nonprofits and organizations outside the prison to deliver transformative
programming in the prison and get funded to do that.
So Lionheart applied for a grant and our first program
was to deliver a fourteen session self study program to
(24:31):
about four hundred I think or six hundred, and it
was a lot. It was all wandering men in solitary confinement,
but in California they call it the shoe the special
housing units. And one thing led to another, and right
now we have that program, which was then called the
Houses of Healing Self Study Program, morphed and transformed into
(24:56):
the Making Time Count Self Study Program, which is a
thirteen session program that's used in conjunction with the Houses
of Healing book to give people transformative programming even when
they're in highly restricted housing. It actually can be utilized
by anyone in the prison system. That our focus was
to get programming to be people who otherwise may not
(25:19):
have programming, and now we make it it's available to anyone,
it's applicable to anyone in the prison system. And we
also had a grant that allowed us we've got put
on hold because of COVID about a grant that allowed
us to train lifers and long termers, to deliver both
our pousource program, a highly art risk adolescence to the
(25:42):
eighteen to twenty four year olds on the yard, and
to deliver the houses a healing program to other men
on the yard. So we've had this awesome opportunity within
the California Department Corrections to offer these programs to you know,
(26:02):
many hundreds. It will you know, be over a thousand
by the time we and these girds. Everything in California,
as you might imagine, is big, and so the numbers
of the prisoners is big, and the opportunity is big.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
But we.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Created the Making Time program, which you know, little did
we know when we created it would be you know,
just you know, very powerful program, a perfect program during
the time of COVID, because most everybody is locked in
their cell, whether they are deemed you know, high security
(26:39):
or not. Here they are and programming has out of
cell programming has pretty much come to a standstill in
those prisons. Sure, I don't need to tell you what's
happening in that context due to COVID. So anyway, the
response to the program, UH was really I was standing
(27:00):
for the first one hundred and sixty evaluations that we received.
In that first ran, one of the men said they
would recommend the program to other people, and there I
don't think I should have it in front of you,
but I don't the statistics of people in their evaluations
just sharing about the changes.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Robin, Can I interject just for a second here?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Certainly?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Can thank you?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I'm done basically, Oh yeah, no, I I just wanted
to interject something here because on your website lionheart dot
org or it's a H L I O N H
E A r T dot org. Anybody that's listening that
really wants to know and see more go to Robin's
website lionheart.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Dot org and you've got it all laid out right there.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
But go to the part where it says Houses of
Healing and the time Making Time Count program, and it's.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Just got a beautiful overview to it.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
But in that overview, it's got what participants are saying
about making time count. I wanted to read a couple
of these because they're exactly what you're talking about. I
could not see myself making the progress I have made
without this self study course, it was as if I
was sinking and hatred and resentful quicksand that was stripping
(28:18):
me of my humanity, health and peace. But someone reached
out and I was willing to accept the helping hand. Michael,
here's the second one I know. This program helped all
the guys I talked to about it. It distills a
lot of the most important psychological and spiritual truths for
helping anyone succeed in life, but especially someone going through
(28:40):
the difficult challenge of incarceration. Brad, this course has greatly
impacted my life in a positive way. I've taken several
self help courses. I've been in solitary confinement for more
than fifteen years, but this course was unlike any other
and made me look deeper into myself.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Malik.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Last one that I have that I'm going to read,
how is Making Time Count? Impacted me hugely. It has
shown me a new way to doing time. It allowed
me to really become aware of a lot of emotions
within myself that I never really cared or knew how
to explore before. I find myself at peace now and
(29:21):
able to deal with hardship better than ever before. Crystal Barbagane,
what do you think of Robin's program?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
They're on a spot, Barbagene.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
I think it's amazing and you know, the testimonials just.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It brings tears to my eyes. It just gives me
more buzzies to know that, you know, people that are.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
Essentially locked up and thrown the key away and are
in this deep dark closet somewhere and the abyss are
still able to be reached and touched and moved and
helped and not forgotten about.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
And you know, it can it can be a pretty
lonely place.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
And uh, and I think it's just absolutely incredible that
there's a way to break through those barriers, both both
physical and mental, and I think that's just huge.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
I'm curious to what the difference of the programs are
for like the Houses of Healing versus the making type
count or uh.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Or is it just the the you know, the type
of population like you said, like for the lifers versus.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You know, general population or do they overlap? What are
the differences there?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah? Well, Houses of Healing is a book written for prisoners,
and just so if you're not familiar with it, you know,
some of the core elements of the program are The
first one is as the chapter that addresses this topic
is titled who Are You Really? So we really look
(31:28):
at self identity Who are you Really? And the explicit
message in that is that the core of who you
are is a fundamentally good, worthy, wise, loving, lovable, powerful
human being, and for many reasons, people get disconnected from
(31:52):
that part of themselves or have never had the environment
and the support in which they could connect with it
in the first place. And that's the second chapter in
the book, which is called From Childhood to Prison The
Long and Winding Road, and it asked the question, how
(32:13):
is it that you come into the world, this beautiful,
like divine child, filled with potential, and you end up
a drug addict, you know, on the streets in prison,
living a life of violence? Many times, what happened along
the road that this could happen? So it is a
(32:35):
very trauma informed That's a phrase it's tossed around the
lot these days because it is so central to people's
ability to truly heal, to look at how trauma has
impacted their lives and see that there are ways in
which you can really genuinely begin to heal that trauma.
(32:58):
And then and then the program addresses teaches emotional regulation
techniques for lack of a better way of saying it,
which is, how do I learn to be a more peaceful, centered,
grounded person aligned experientially, energetically aligned with that core self
(33:25):
in me that is aware, that can make good choices
in every moment, that when I'm aligned with this, I
open up to the qualities of wisdom and empathy and
you know, greater sense of peace. And so the program
(33:45):
focuses a lot on teaching people emotional regulation techniques that
help them do the work of again experientially, not just
oh this is placed for me, that's really peaceful, that's
not helpful when the going gets rough. I need to
have a lot energetically aligned with that part of myself
so that I can actually call on it. So it's
(34:07):
a memory in my you know, in my being that
wait a minute, let me take some deep breaths. You know,
I can go back to that part of myself that
I can align with, that part of myself that knows better,
that is wise, that can make good choices. And so
(34:32):
that's a big part of the program as well. And
then also a part of Houses of Healing is is
helping people in prison to in a way that is
not diminishing and degrading. But how how can I begin
(34:57):
to really take response ability for my offending behavior from
my life, for what's going on in my life? How
can I take responsibility for that and clean up the
mess that I've left behind me so that I can
move on in a good way. And then there's a
chapter called Spiritual Awakening, Finding the faith that sustains me.
(35:20):
It's a very ecumenical approach. We don't tell people to
believe this or that, but we do stress the importance
of just trying to quiet ourselves and to come into
an alignment with a bigger, bigger reality than our egos
are going to give us access to, and where there's
a level of power and strength that comes that no
(35:44):
matter how rough the going gets, if we can tap
into that, that is a source of strength like none other.
And then really looking at our future and what the
Making Time Count workbook does, And again because it was
initially developed for people in administrative segregation, in solitary confinement,
(36:06):
is it walks people through the program. The house is
a healing program that they might have been walked through
if they were fortunate enough to be in a class
to have an effective facilitator that could reinforce things on
a week two week basis, bring them through various exercises,
give them feedback. The workbook, the Making Time Count is
(36:28):
a workbook, a thirteen session workbook that walks people through
that program. And you know, when we make this program
available to people, whether through a grant or through you know,
some other means, we say to them they have to
sign a registration form and they say, I can receive
(36:50):
paperback books. I can read at a fifth grade level.
That's the requirement. If they can't read it a fifth
grade level, then the program is beyond you know, their
their capability to do independently. I have a penner pencil
so that I can do the work. And I am
committed to spending forty five minutes to an hour a
(37:11):
day over the approximately three month period that the course
spans every day to participate in this course. If they can't,
and I say to them, take your time think about this.
If you're not ready to make that commitment, that's okay.
It's not the time yet for you to engage in it.
(37:31):
I'm kind of setting a bar for people to say,
if you true transformation is you would have to make
a commitment to that. And if you can't make a commitment,
then you're not ready to make a commitment. That's okay,
You're not going to be you know, diminished for that.
But this program isn't for you. It's for people who say,
(37:53):
you know, part of what I really try to do
in the program is inspire people to go on from
day to day. That's part that's part of my job
as the creator of the program. It's like, what do
I say to people? How do I encourage people? How
do I inspire people to keep going when first of
(38:15):
all they have to look at very difficult things about
their lives that you know, it's like, let me shut
this book. You know, I don't want to look at that.
Is there a way to create a a safety for
them that that I'm sorry for that phone ringing in
(38:37):
the background, but you know, so that they feel like,
not only am I willing to do this work, but
as difficult as it may be and is challenging, challenging
as it may be, I'm excited to do this work
because I see the possibility of an emotional liberation that
I've never had in my life because fundamentally, I've been
(38:58):
so wounded and lost that that hasn't been you know,
it hasn't been an option for me up to this
point in time. So that's kind of as I go
off and I'm talking about the program a long winded
way of just kind of giving an overview. And the
other piece that's in the program that I focus on
in abo chapter is this forgiveness. You know, how do
(39:21):
you then move on in your life? Number one by
you know, well, not number one, it's number one and
number one forgiving others and forgiving myself? And how do
I understand forgiveness so that I can actually forgive myself
and forgive others? What does forgiveness mean? Does it mean
(39:41):
I candone the behavior of people who are really abusive
to me? No, it does not, you know, Does it
mean I condone my own behavior? Oh, I did something
really hurtful and to myself or to others, and so
you know, I'm forgiving myself. Means it really wasn't that
important A big No. It's really accepting full responsibility for
(40:02):
what we've done and the impact of what we've done,
and how it's impacted others. There is no forgiveness without that.
But then, you know, how can I not let the
self loathing or the anger and resentment towards others become
in a driving emotional force in my life? How can
I how can I really you know, understand these things.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
In a way that.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
They don't go away, but the emotional charge begins to diminish,
so I can move on in my life in a
healthy and much free away. Even if I'm going to
be in prison for the rest of my life, how
can I become a free person. Maybe I'm not going
to be physically free, but how do I free myself
from the baggage of you know, negative emotions and loathing,
(41:00):
be it towards oneself or other people? How do I
become more open hearted towards myself and towards others and
basically again find freedom behind bars and so that I
can be free outside. Because the truth is, if you're
not free behind bars, you're not gonna be free when
you get out either. You know, you'll be physically free,
but we all know how well that works for most people.
(41:23):
They end up back in prison soon enough because they
because they because they aren't free.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Rob we're getting down there about our last five ten
minutes or so here, sure, but I want to make
a couple of comments, and then i'd like barbierging to
make a few comments, and then we'll kind of bring
it to a close.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
In your book.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I've given a copy to Barbierginge since I met her,
and I got copies into the library at the prison
where her husband is, because I think it's a beautiful
thing to have her and he reading it simultaneously, exchanging
in their phone calls, their letters, whatever. And so I
know that I did a good deed there getting that
(42:04):
hooked up link that. So I thank you for writing
the book. But now in your book, though you covered
there's fifteen chapters, and you gave a very good overview.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Of everything that the program is in a very quick way.
I compliment you for that.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
But there's one thing about you that is in the
book that is so powerful that you didn't mention, and
I'm going to bring that up and then we'll go
from there.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
When we want people to learn how.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
To live with themselves, embrace freedom and who they are,
and all the things that you said chapter nine and
chapter ten relaxation, making space for new possibilities and then
ten awareness and meditation, getting clear on what's really going on.
A huge part of your whole personality, your nature, you're
(42:50):
inner being is based on a very meditative, relaxed, spiritual
I mean, you're a very spiritual person.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
You've learned to pass that on to other people.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
Mindful in this meditation is something that you've been teaching
for years. And so Barbi Ginge, that's one of the
the I won't call it a technique because it's a
it's a certain way of being. It goes way beyond philosophy.
But when a person becomes grounded and centered like that,
they can they can live within themselves in a more
(43:21):
peaceful way. And so I just wanted you, Robin to
speak to that for a moment, and then we'll give
Barbaging a chance to give some responses.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Just simply thank you for noting that, not about me,
but about the importance of the meditation it is. It
is a core element of the program, is teaching people
and reinforcing and supporting them and having a meditation practice.
I just I just think the value of it is
(43:51):
invaluable and therefore, and therefore I would feel totally remiss
if I didn't have that as something that is reinforced
literally from week to week to week to week through
the entire program, and then really encourage people to stick
with it, I would say for the rest of their lives.
I mean, I've been a disciplined meditator for forty years.
(44:13):
I can't imagine the time of my life and I
wouldn't continue to do that.
Speaker 7 (44:17):
So thank you, Steve, Barbara Jine I gave I gave
you a request to introduce your story to Robin in
the beginning of the show, and now I'm going to
give you an opportunity to give her some comments and
feedback whatever you'd like to say.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
We're down about five minutes, if that's okay.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
So I just want to thank you so much for.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
Your time, Robin, and you was talking your generosity and
your commitment to these programs and they sound absolutely incredible,
absolutely incredible. The emotional addressing, the emotional growth in my
(45:01):
experience has been the most important part of my own
personal journey.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Like, yeah, you can go through and like learn how to.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
You know, balance a checkbook and fill out an application
and have like interview skills and you know, stuff like that,
but until I learned to really love and believe in
myself and know why I do the things I.
Speaker 8 (45:26):
Do or don't do the things that I do, like
why I avoid things, And you know, my subconscious and
my past experiences have kind of cultivated into some choices
that I've made that I didn't even realize I was making.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
And so I just I love.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
The fact that your programs and your workbook and the
readings and everything are really about self reflection and not
just checking off the boxes of how to do this
and how to do that, But how do I be like.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Who am I? And who do I want to be?
Speaker 5 (46:09):
You know, and where I'm at now and where I
want to be without going through a shame labor guilt process.
Just accountability and just gut level honest and then going
forward from there. And the forgiveness piece is so important
(46:30):
for people both inside and out. And I just want
to thank you for not just your time today, but
what you're doing. I think it's absolutely incredible and I
look forward to talking with you more and diving right
into it with you. I really admire what you're doing,
(46:51):
and I thank you from love.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Thank you so much, and I want to.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Will you know, everybody that's listening, I know you've got
hope from today's show to just know that there are
at least two angels in the world named Robin and
Barbera Jean that are out there doing so much good
in the world, spreading so much love, caring so much
about all of us. And if I didn't have people
(47:19):
like Robin and Barbara Jean in my life to know
that I'm being cared about, I probably wouldn't be able
to move on every day either. So that's one of
the missing components is is knowing that you can be loved,
and I certainly feel that with the two of you,
and I thank you both for that. I want to
sum up a little paraphrase of what today's show is,
(47:42):
what the message is, and this is going to some
scripture that I like to bring into the show. This
is from Romans twelve to two. Do not conform to
the pattern of this world, but be transformed by.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
The renewing of your mind.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Then you will be able to test and approve what
God's will is good, pleasing and perfect will. A second
one that is right in the program that you've heard
about today coming from John eight thirty two.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Then you will know the.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
Truth, and the truth will set you free. That's your truth.
And then from Colossians three two. I think this is
kind of where we need to all be. I've asked
many people in my travels when I'm teaching in schools
for the at risk, you know what people's goals are.
But I've learned that I think the highest goal that
(48:32):
we all see is to be at peace and to
know that we're loved. But to peace, that's the one
word that I think we can kind of embody it
all into. And here's just a beautiful thing on how
to get there Colossians three two. Set your minds on
things above, not on earthly things. Well, with that said Barbara, Jean,
(48:55):
I'm sure this is not the last time that you'll
have a chance to have interaction with Robin, because it
wouldn't surprise me if you end up making your life
commitment to be part of the Lionheart Foundation and continue
the work that Robin does for years to come.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
And I'll be part of that with you, by the way.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
But that said Robin, today was the one hundred and
ninety eighth show. Next week, my wife Donna's going to
be the one hundred and ninety ninth show, and she's
going to talk about our journey together somewhat and where
we are with life'sp You know, life can be turbulent sometimes, but.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yet we never want to give up.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
We know there's always going to be a way to
continue when you're when you're surrounded by people like I said,
y'all are and other people in the world. So the
world's really not bad, it's just confused sometimes. And so
then the following week, I've got my two hundred show.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
But Robin, I just.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
One more time. In the very beginning, you reached out
and pulled me up. And when I couldn't get sponsors
to get my foundation started to get it going, I
had a owner out there that couldn't even give me
money because it had to be ear marked to a
nonprofit and I didn't have my status yet. And so
you offered without me asking to be that sponsoring nonprofit
(50:12):
for me, and and we've just over the years it's
just grown so beautiful, and Robin, I just I just
thank you. I love you, and I just wish you
all the all the best, all the health, and and
just you just keep doing what you're doing, and I
promise you that you already know it. You're reaching so
many people and we thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Thank you, Steve, and back at you with all of that,
thank you for you have a true heart of gold
as no question, Barb reginas as well, and it's an
honor and a blessing to be here with the both
of you today and keep up your awesome work, both
of you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Thank you well everyone.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
I know that you've been touched by today's show and
I look forward to next week with my wife Donna
being my guest and everyone, have a wonderful week.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
And God bless you.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
Thanks for listening to right Thinking with Steve Copeland. I'll
look forward to being with you again next week and
remember it, don't quit plan ahead. It will get better.
God bless you, and have a great week.
There must be lies burning brighter somewhere.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Got to be birds.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I am hi in the sky.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Good morning, welcome to Right Thinking with Steve Copeland. I'm
your host, Steve Copeland, and thank you for tuning in.
Let's have a great day.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Good morning, everybody, glad to be with you.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
Well, we're in the countdown series now, that's when I'm
calling this.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
In two more weeks, Right Thinking.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
With Steve Copeland will have its two hundredth show, and
I owe a lot of the success of why I've
been able to be on the air for two hundred
weeks to the guests that we're going to have on today.
And it's a surprise. There's more than one guest today.
Let's just start right into this. Today is episode number
one and ninety eight. Right Thinking with Steve Copeland is
(01:09):
very pleased to announce that this week's show is called
Making Time Count with Robin Cassargin.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Tune in in here.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Steve and Robin have another beautiful conversation with Barbara Jenkrean
as they talk about Robin's nationally acclaimed program, Making Time Count.
Your heart will be touched as Robin shares words of
wisdom with Barbara Jean a person who is deeply committed
to make any difference with incarcerated individuals. Robin, thank you
(01:39):
so much for wanting to be on the air with
me today.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
My joy Steve always You're wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Robin. It's really good to see you. Barbiaging.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
We did three shows in a row four weeks back
till two weeks ago. And the comments I've been getting
from people about you, they they just make me feel
good because what I like to do is I like
to connect people together that are beautiful, people that want
to make a difference in the world. And Barberaging Jim
Stovall did me a blessing when he introduced me to you.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Robin. I know that you're incredibly busy, you always are.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
But you know you've been You've been doing what you
do for a long time. Your programs in prisons have
been going on for in you know, close to thirty
some years. Your book Forgiveness, A Bold Choice for a
Peaceful Heart was a bestseller thirty three thirty four five
years ago, and I've read it maybe six or seven
times now because it is the single best resource I've
(02:41):
ever come across that deals with the subject of forgiveness,
every aspect of forgiveness that anybody needs to understand and
adapt into their lives. It's covered in your book and
it is. It is just a masterpiece that everybody ought
to read.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Robin.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Your program Houses with Healing has been around for a while.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's been in.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Jeez, hundreds and hundreds of prisons. It's touched thousands and
thousands of lives. You've donated thousands of copies of Houses
of Healing to prison, making it available to people that
couldn't afford it. And so the reason that I've asked
to be on today is first of all, because I
love you so much. And seven years eight years whoa wait,
(03:27):
when was it eleven years ago? Eleven years ago? When
I was I started writ Thinking Foundation twelve years ago.
But in the very beginning, a gentleman networked me, introduced
me to you. And do you remember his name, Frederick
or Frederickson that was on your board.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I don't recall that he was.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
An elderly gentleman. He was eighty at the time.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh oh, oh, okay, Frank Ferguson.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Oh, Frank Ferguson. Yeah, see there's two aps in there.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I said. Frederick Frederickson.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, I remember what.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Brenk Ferguson said to me when I got introduced to him.
And I won't go through how I got met him,
but I got introduced to this wonderful gentleman and he
said to me, he said, Steve, this is when I
was first starting out for me my foundation and the
work that I wanted to do with financial literacy. He said, Steve,
if I was forty years younger, I would want to
(04:22):
be right there with you because what you're doing is
going to be wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
But I just can't get involved. But what I want to.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Do is I want to introduce you to Robin Cassarg
And then he sent you an email and said, Robin,
I would like you to send Houses of Healing program
to Steve and then let him preview that and then
he's going to call you.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And then do you.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Remember what happened after that? Because it's a good story
for me, go for it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I made an appointment to meet you in your office
one day and I showed up and you opened the door.
And that's been, like I said, you know, eleven going
on twelve years ago, and fortunate for you haven't been
able to get.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Rid of me since that day.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Fortunate for me.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
That's nice of you to say that. Well, well, Robin
Jim Stowball, who is also in the curriculum that you
participated in, that's now live and a jail in Illinois,
Winnebago County Jail in Rockford, Illinois, September the eighteenth, and
we're going to be live either today or tomorrow in
(05:27):
Mecklenburg County and a prison in North Carolina. And this
week also we're supposed to be live in Walton County
Jail in Florida. And so it's getting ready to take off.
If it hadn't been for the coronavirus, I think we'd
be in a whole lot more by now. But you're
part of that curriculum, and another gentleman named Jim Stoveall
(05:49):
is also part of that curriculum and the resource module
that I have in the curriculum where I have a
series called a Message from four people that are in there,
and you're you're one of the four. Like I say, well, well,
that show that we made a show out of it.
But it's also in the curriculum. I want to read
(06:09):
this verb on what that interview with you was. Let
me put my fingers on it.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Here. I got it somewhere here.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I set it aside before we start it. Okay, give
me just a second because I'm going to grab it.
I usually have it better organized than this, but okay,
I think I got it now. All right, A message
from Robin. This is what's in the curriculum in prisons,
and we made a show out of it. This interview
(06:37):
is the first in a four part series featuring four
of the most inspirational motivational people that Steve has the
privilege to the privilege to call his friends. Listening to
Robin talk about forgiveness and healing will help you move
out of the realm of lofty ideals into a practical,
grounded strategy that you can integrate into your own life. Well, Robin,
(07:00):
I listened to that in preparation for today's show. I've
listened to that message that you did nine times now,
maybe because it's powerful. It really captures the essence of
everything that I'm trying to do for trying to help
people transform their minds they're thinking into that they're incarcerated.
We're dealing with what we call the underserved population, the
(07:22):
population that many people don't really want to spend much
time with for whatever their motivations and reasons. But Robin,
I want to introduce you to Barbara Jane right now.
Barbara Jean was introduced to me by Jim Stowball, and
when she did a show a couple of weeks ago,
it was this just everything was just going real nice en,
I'll be hearing about who she is and what she does.
(07:44):
She's a world class doggie daycare, dog trainer, show dogs.
She has a vision for all kinds of things and
they call her the I guess they call her the
dog whisper because she has a sixth sense to where
she knows how to listen.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
She knows how I'll listen.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
And she's involved with an organization called Climber Associates, the
leadership organization that's international, worldwide, that's very parallel to what
your programs are and she's gone into high levels over
the last four or five years with them. And in
the show she did, she dropped the bomb on everybody.
Everybody listening to the show says, oh my gosh, jaw
(08:22):
dropping because nobody knew what she was going to talk about.
So with that said, Barbara Jean could you introduce yourself
and tell your life story in the next three or
four to five or six minutes to Robin so she'll
understand why I brought y'all together.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
All Right, Well, good.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
Morning everyone, and thank you again for having me Sive.
I'm super excited to be here and wick and excited
to meet you.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Robin. It's an honor. I've heard a ton about.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
You and I'm really looking forward to chatting with you today.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So about me.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
My life story real quick is, let's see about fourteen
years ago or thirteen years ago, I was working at
Douggie Daycare and.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I'm beknownst to me, I was working alongside pre release
inmates that were our work release program. I had no idea.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
I laid my eyes on this man the first my
very first day, elbowed.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
My friend said I'm going to marry that man.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
She was like, yeah, okay, BARROGI I'm like, no, I'm
not kidding.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
He's mine. So we got to talk.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
In a couple of months later, I found out that
he was incarcerated.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
I had no idea.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
I just thought that there were a lot of really
good looking, jacked guys that work at this place, which
I wasn't completing about and I thought it was kind
of funny that they all carpooled, and you know, they
all got in the.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Same man and I didn't notice that it said, you know,
dooc on it. But we started talking and dating and
we're now married.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
And it started off in a very fairy tale like
you know, night in Shining Armor sort of scenario. And uh,
a couple of years back, my husband found himself at
the peak of his heroin addiction and I had put
(10:30):
my foot down and said, I'm taking the boys.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
We had three dogs at the time, which.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Were our kids, and uh, our our dream was always
to move to Hampshire and.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Live in a log cabin in the woods.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
And I wasn't willing to wait any longer for this drug.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Stop to stop.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
So I went when on them, I said, taking the boys,
We're going to New Hampshire.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I'm gonna nest, gonna find a spot, make a little
cozy home. I suggest you go to rehab and meet
us up.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
There when you're ready, when when you get your stuff together.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And I love you with all my heart and I want.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
To spend the rest of my life with you, and
I've drawing a really big boundary of drawing a really
big line, the state line between Massachusetts and New Hampshire.
You can come when the drugs can't. And that's that's uh,
that's my role. And so I moved to New Hampshire
with the boys, not so I knew one person in
(11:37):
the entire state. And exactly one month after I moved
up to New Hampshire, he made some poor choices. Instead
of going to rehab, he chose to go to prison.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
And the actions led.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
To an arrest and he's he's been in for this February,
will be four years now and expected to probably do
at least another four.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
So I had stuck my head on the sand for
about a year or so.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
You know, things hit the news and everything, and my
whole life of secret, dirty laundry that nobody knew about,
really it made.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
The news and aired out to everyone. So I was
just lost. So I literally just hit in the woods
of New.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Hampshire for about a solid year, kind of just isolating
myself and waking my wounds. And then I decided to
pick myself up and dust myself off and keep going,
keep on, keep on choving along. And I started a
(12:48):
personal development journey with this company, Clemmer and Associates, and
what I learned about myself was so priceless and in
value that, you know, I want to bring that to
other people. So I've started sharing all my experiences with
my husband and sending him the books and everything like that.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And it breaks my heart that I can have these
tools and.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Experiences and he doesn't, and there's no access for him
to have that. So I've stepped into to being this
devoted person that's dedicated to getting these people the tools
and the skills that they deserve to have to learn
about worthiness and love and confidence and self worth and
(13:40):
not having to hate on themselves with this self medicating loathing.
You know, my husband was at such a low when
when he was being arrested, he actually begged the officers
to just shoot him, and he was really he was
just desperate at that point. And I'm really it's important
(14:05):
to me that people, all people, and especially the underserved
and oversee the guys that aren't being heard, that they
get to.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Be they get to be a part of this too.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And so.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
As much as I've brought into myself but I've learned
about myself, I've also learned how much you want to
help other people, and so I reached out to Steve
Well At a seminary.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I met Jim Stowell.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
I told him my vision of getting these personal development.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Character based leadership.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Seminars and workshops into the prison system and he said,
you got to talk to Steve. And I've been talking
to Steve for weeks now and he said, you got
to talk to Robin. And so I just look forward
to learning as much as possible about, you know, the
steps of getting a program into prison, how it works,
(15:03):
and you know, just.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
I just to stay that how to help these guys
as men and women, these.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Individuals as much as possible, both inside and out.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
And you know, I have big visions and.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
I want to incorporate everyone to make sure no one's
left behind. And I really want to be that voice
for the overlooked, the unheard, and the well deserved, because
they're important too.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Robin, eleven twelve years of you mentoring me and helping
me get started and entree my way into prisons and
so forth to try to understand the world, the population
that you know so much about, and here we are today,
I'm bringing you the most beautiful person that has a
real life situation, but it's outside of prison as well
(15:57):
as inside of prison. What this is part of my
future is to is to continue doing the work that
I do in prisons, the radio and all that stuff.
But I've learned one thing. If when we help people
inside prisons to find who they really are, find their truth,
all the things that you do, if they come out
(16:17):
of prison and they're not better prepared to adapt to
the world, they're not going to succeed. But the other
part of that is also people on the outside have
to start to understand more of the reality of how
beautiful these people really are, that we're falling made a mistake,
and so the forgiveness aspect of people on the outside
(16:42):
that need to welcome the people and help them that
are coming out from the inside.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
It's a whole lot of stuff. But Robin, I.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Think that's a pretty good introduction from Barbara to be
introduced to you, And so I just wanted to give
you a second before you responded or said anything. Because
hers store her life, it says it's as real as
happening right now, and she's not running away from it,
she's actually embracing it, and she's seeking she's seeking the
(17:13):
truth not just for herself, but for all the others
that are just like her. And so there you have it. So,
Barbara Jane, that was absolutely beautiful. And now I'm going
to ask Robin to share anything she wants about why
she does what she does, how her programs are effective,
and anything that she might want to want to offer
(17:35):
to you that will help you get through these times
that you're struggling through that you want to reach the
goals that you've stated.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Wow. Well, first of all, you know, thank you Steve
for inviting me. Thank you for inviting me on the
show with Barbara Jean Bobajene. That was an amazing story,
as I'm sure everybody says to you after you tell
your own personal story, and just want to just a
(18:03):
you know, acknowledge you. Applaud you for your big heartedness,
for your strength that you had the clarity to move
away when you saw that there was no good way
forward without some boundaries and you set those boundaries. I
(18:25):
just really applaud you for that. But you set those
boundaries with a huge and open heart to see that
people can change, and if they do change, then you
know you're still there. But if they don't change. Then
they have to walk into that confusion and darkness by themselves,
(18:50):
you know, in terms of their person not I'm sure
not at you know, a spiritual level, but so anyway,
that's I just a applaud you and and really applaud
your commitment to helping to helping people find their way
(19:13):
back to themselves, you know, to the beauty and the
goodness and strength and the possibility of making a positive
difference for everyone. You know, you see that in people,
and you uh are able to stay firm in that vision,
(19:33):
and that is just tremendous. I just really like, you know,
thank you for who you are, and you know, for
who what you're doing and the spirit in which you
do it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
It's just awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And I just want you to know if there's a
way that I can contribute to that, uh, you know,
it would be my honor. So I was on Stay
Show a long time ago, but just really quickly, like
you Barbagine, I follow my instincts and my intuitions and
(20:10):
my heart, and I was invited to go into a prison.
Oh my goodness, it was so many years ago now, nineteen,
I don't like twenty five, twenty six years ago to
give a talk on forgiveness. As Steve mentioned, I wrote
a book on the topic, and somebody had heard me
(20:30):
give a public talk on forgiveness and said, when you're
coming to give a talk. And I'd never been in
a prison. I never thought about going into a prison.
But in the way that I speak about forgiveness in
its most expanded sense, I say, forgiveness is seeing the
light instead of the lampshade of people, or as I say,
it's not if the lampshade's there. I see the lampshade.
(20:51):
I'm not being naive, but I see it in the
context of an infinite light. And the job that we
have in terms of healing is to help people connect
to that light within themselves and then to do the
do sometimes the very hard emotional healing work that needs
to be done in order to connect to that in
(21:12):
a you know, as consistent a way as possible. So anyway,
I went in, gave the talk, and by the end
of it, I expected, as I talk about in my
book Houses of Healing, which I wrote for prisoners, I expected,
you know, two, three, four people to show up. And
when I arrived at the room at nine o'clock in
the morning. They were one hundred and twenty men waiting
(21:33):
for the talk to begin, and it was just they
were amazing and so responsive. And the psychologist said, Gee,
would you come back and teach a course? And I
thought why not. I had been teaching stress management at
a large health maintenance organization at that time called the
Harvard Community Health Plan now Harvard Vanguard, and I was
(21:54):
used to teaching and this and helping people to really
you know, the at the bottom line is is kind
of energetically aligned with that part in themselves that's peaceful,
it's wise, that's strong, and that wants to make a
positive difference in the world and really be and give love.
(22:17):
You know, how do we all have that in us?
How do we align with that? As I put it
in Houses of Healing, the book for prisoners, it's about
seeing the light instead of the lamp shape people, or
I'd say, well, I see the lamp shade of the
lamp shades there, but I see it in the context
of the light. And so anyway, I gave that talk,
I started teaching programs in the prison, and then four
(22:41):
years later I just thought this is great, but I
don't reach that many people, and maybe there's another book
to be written to try to bring the spirit and
this content to prisoners across the United States. So I
started the Lion Heart Foundation to support that work because
I knew I didn't want to take a year to
write the book unless I had a way to give
it away for right to prison libraries and prison programs.
(23:03):
And to make a long story short, there are probably
about one hundred and seventy thousand copies that have been
distributed since its publication, about seventy thousand of them donated
and the rest sold. And that's part of the way
that the Lioneheart Foundation stings itself. And then the prison
project led to a program for youth at risk, and
(23:25):
now we have a we're just launching a program for
directia staff that worked with highly at risk adolescents, particularly
in residential treatment. And so the work of the Line
Heeart Foundation has expanded. And just to kind of bring
that to a close in terms of our history, about
five years ago, the California Department of Correction and Rehabilitation
(23:49):
offered an opportunity to apply for what they call their
Innovative Grants Program. It was a joint ventured between the
California Department Career Rehabilitation and the state legislature. They came
together to to offer this program, to offer the opportunity
(24:11):
to nonprofits and organizations outside the prison to deliver transformative
programming in the prison and get funded to do that.
So Lionheart applied for a grant and our first program
was to deliver a fourteen session self study program to
(24:31):
about four hundred I think or six hundred, and it
was a lot. It was all wandering men in solitary confinement,
but in California they call it the shoe the special
housing units. And one thing led to another, and right
now we have that program, which was then called the
Houses of Healing Self Study Program, morphed and transformed into
(24:56):
the Making Time Count Self Study Program, which is a
thirteen session program that's used in conjunction with the Houses
of Healing book to give people transformative programming even when
they're in highly restricted housing. It actually can be utilized
by anyone in the prison system. That our focus was
to get programming to be people who otherwise may not
(25:19):
have programming, and now we make it it's available to anyone,
it's applicable to anyone in the prison system. And we
also had a grant that allowed us we've got put
on hold because of COVID about a grant that allowed
us to train lifers and long termers, to deliver both
our pousource program, a highly art risk adolescence to the
(25:42):
eighteen to twenty four year olds on the yard, and
to deliver the houses a healing program to other men
on the yard. So we've had this awesome opportunity within
the California Department Corrections to offer these programs to you know,
(26:02):
many hundreds. It will you know, be over a thousand
by the time we and these girds. Everything in California,
as you might imagine, is big, and so the numbers
of the prisoners is big, and the opportunity is big.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
But we.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Created the Making Time program, which you know, little did
we know when we created it would be you know,
just you know, very powerful program, a perfect program during
the time of COVID, because most everybody is locked in
their cell, whether they are deemed you know, high security
(26:39):
or not. Here they are and programming has out of
cell programming has pretty much come to a standstill in
those prisons. Sure, I don't need to tell you what's
happening in that context due to COVID. So anyway, the
response to the program, UH was really I was standing
(27:00):
for the first one hundred and sixty evaluations that we received.
In that first ran, one of the men said they
would recommend the program to other people, and there I
don't think I should have it in front of you,
but I don't the statistics of people in their evaluations
just sharing about the changes.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Robin, Can I interject just for a second here?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Certainly?
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Can thank you?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I'm done basically, Oh yeah, no, I I just wanted
to interject something here because on your website lionheart dot
org or it's a H L I O N H
E A r T dot org. Anybody that's listening that
really wants to know and see more go to Robin's
website lionheart.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Dot org and you've got it all laid out right there.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
But go to the part where it says Houses of
Healing and the time Making Time Count program, and it's.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Just got a beautiful overview to it.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
But in that overview, it's got what participants are saying
about making time count. I wanted to read a couple
of these because they're exactly what you're talking about. I
could not see myself making the progress I have made
without this self study course, it was as if I
was sinking and hatred and resentful quicksand that was stripping
(28:18):
me of my humanity, health and peace. But someone reached
out and I was willing to accept the helping hand. Michael,
here's the second one I know. This program helped all
the guys I talked to about it. It distills a
lot of the most important psychological and spiritual truths for
helping anyone succeed in life, but especially someone going through
(28:40):
the difficult challenge of incarceration. Brad, this course has greatly
impacted my life in a positive way. I've taken several
self help courses. I've been in solitary confinement for more
than fifteen years, but this course was unlike any other
and made me look deeper into myself.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Malik.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Last one that I have that I'm going to read,
how is Making Time Count? Impacted me hugely. It has
shown me a new way to doing time. It allowed
me to really become aware of a lot of emotions
within myself that I never really cared or knew how
to explore before. I find myself at peace now and
(29:21):
able to deal with hardship better than ever before. Crystal Barbagane,
what do you think of Robin's program?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
They're on a spot, Barbagene.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
I think it's amazing and you know, the testimonials just.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It brings tears to my eyes. It just gives me
more buzzies to know that, you know, people that are.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
Essentially locked up and thrown the key away and are
in this deep dark closet somewhere and the abyss are
still able to be reached and touched and moved and
helped and not forgotten about.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
And you know, it can it can be a pretty
lonely place.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
And uh, and I think it's just absolutely incredible that
there's a way to break through those barriers, both both
physical and mental, and I think that's just huge.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
I'm curious to what the difference of the programs are
for like the Houses of Healing versus the making type
count or uh.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Or is it just the the you know, the type
of population like you said, like for the lifers versus.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You know, general population or do they overlap? What are
the differences there?
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah? Well, Houses of Healing is a book written for prisoners,
and just so if you're not familiar with it, you know,
some of the core elements of the program are The
first one is as the chapter that addresses this topic
is titled who Are You Really? So we really look
(31:28):
at self identity Who are you Really? And the explicit
message in that is that the core of who you
are is a fundamentally good, worthy, wise, loving, lovable, powerful
human being, and for many reasons, people get disconnected from
(31:52):
that part of themselves or have never had the environment
and the support in which they could connect with it
in the first place. And that's the second chapter in
the book, which is called From Childhood to Prison The
Long and Winding Road, and it asked the question, how
(32:13):
is it that you come into the world, this beautiful,
like divine child, filled with potential, and you end up
a drug addict, you know, on the streets in prison,
living a life of violence? Many times, what happened along
the road that this could happen? So it is a
(32:35):
very trauma informed That's a phrase it's tossed around the
lot these days because it is so central to people's
ability to truly heal, to look at how trauma has
impacted their lives and see that there are ways in
which you can really genuinely begin to heal that trauma.
(32:58):
And then and then the program addresses teaches emotional regulation
techniques for lack of a better way of saying it,
which is, how do I learn to be a more peaceful, centered,
grounded person aligned experientially, energetically aligned with that core self
(33:25):
in me that is aware, that can make good choices
in every moment, that when I'm aligned with this, I
open up to the qualities of wisdom and empathy and
you know, greater sense of peace. And so the program
(33:45):
focuses a lot on teaching people emotional regulation techniques that
help them do the work of again experientially, not just
oh this is placed for me, that's really peaceful, that's
not helpful when the going gets rough. I need to
have a lot energetically aligned with that part of myself
so that I can actually call on it. So it's
(34:07):
a memory in my you know, in my being that
wait a minute, let me take some deep breaths. You know,
I can go back to that part of myself that
I can align with, that part of myself that knows better,
that is wise, that can make good choices. And so
(34:32):
that's a big part of the program as well. And
then also a part of Houses of Healing is is
helping people in prison to in a way that is
not diminishing and degrading. But how how can I begin
(34:57):
to really take response ability for my offending behavior from
my life, for what's going on in my life? How
can I take responsibility for that and clean up the
mess that I've left behind me so that I can
move on in a good way. And then there's a
chapter called Spiritual Awakening, Finding the faith that sustains me.
(35:20):
It's a very ecumenical approach. We don't tell people to
believe this or that, but we do stress the importance
of just trying to quiet ourselves and to come into
an alignment with a bigger, bigger reality than our egos
are going to give us access to, and where there's
a level of power and strength that comes that no
(35:44):
matter how rough the going gets, if we can tap
into that, that is a source of strength like none other.
And then really looking at our future and what the
Making Time Count workbook does, And again because it was
initially developed for people in administrative segregation, in solitary confinement,
(36:06):
is it walks people through the program. The house is
a healing program that they might have been walked through
if they were fortunate enough to be in a class
to have an effective facilitator that could reinforce things on
a week two week basis, bring them through various exercises,
give them feedback. The workbook, the Making Time Count is
(36:28):
a workbook, a thirteen session workbook that walks people through
that program. And you know, when we make this program
available to people, whether through a grant or through you know,
some other means, we say to them they have to
sign a registration form and they say, I can receive
(36:50):
paperback books. I can read at a fifth grade level.
That's the requirement. If they can't read it a fifth
grade level, then the program is beyond you know, their
their capability to do independently. I have a penner pencil
so that I can do the work. And I am
committed to spending forty five minutes to an hour a
(37:11):
day over the approximately three month period that the course
spans every day to participate in this course. If they can't,
and I say to them, take your time think about this.
If you're not ready to make that commitment, that's okay.
It's not the time yet for you to engage in it.
(37:31):
I'm kind of setting a bar for people to say,
if you true transformation is you would have to make
a commitment to that. And if you can't make a commitment,
then you're not ready to make a commitment. That's okay,
You're not going to be you know, diminished for that.
But this program isn't for you. It's for people who say,
(37:53):
you know, part of what I really try to do
in the program is inspire people to go on from
day to day. That's part that's part of my job
as the creator of the program. It's like, what do
I say to people? How do I encourage people? How
do I inspire people to keep going when first of
(38:15):
all they have to look at very difficult things about
their lives that you know, it's like, let me shut
this book. You know, I don't want to look at that.
Is there a way to create a a safety for
them that that I'm sorry for that phone ringing in
(38:37):
the background, but you know, so that they feel like,
not only am I willing to do this work, but
as difficult as it may be and is challenging, challenging
as it may be, I'm excited to do this work
because I see the possibility of an emotional liberation that
I've never had in my life because fundamentally, I've been
(38:58):
so wounded and lost that that hasn't been you know,
it hasn't been an option for me up to this
point in time. So that's kind of as I go
off and I'm talking about the program a long winded
way of just kind of giving an overview. And the
other piece that's in the program that I focus on
in abo chapter is this forgiveness. You know, how do
(39:21):
you then move on in your life? Number one by
you know, well, not number one, it's number one and
number one forgiving others and forgiving myself? And how do
I understand forgiveness so that I can actually forgive myself
and forgive others? What does forgiveness mean? Does it mean
(39:41):
I candone the behavior of people who are really abusive
to me? No, it does not, you know, Does it
mean I condone my own behavior? Oh, I did something
really hurtful and to myself or to others, and so
you know, I'm forgiving myself. Means it really wasn't that
important A big No. It's really accepting full responsibility for
(40:02):
what we've done and the impact of what we've done,
and how it's impacted others. There is no forgiveness without that.
But then, you know, how can I not let the
self loathing or the anger and resentment towards others become
in a driving emotional force in my life? How can
I how can I really you know, understand these things.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
In a way that.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
They don't go away, but the emotional charge begins to diminish,
so I can move on in my life in a
healthy and much free away. Even if I'm going to
be in prison for the rest of my life, how
can I become a free person. Maybe I'm not going
to be physically free, but how do I free myself
from the baggage of you know, negative emotions and loathing,
(41:00):
be it towards oneself or other people? How do I
become more open hearted towards myself and towards others and
basically again find freedom behind bars and so that I
can be free outside. Because the truth is, if you're
not free behind bars, you're not gonna be free when
you get out either. You know, you'll be physically free,
but we all know how well that works for most people.
(41:23):
They end up back in prison soon enough because they
because they because they aren't free.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Rob we're getting down there about our last five ten
minutes or so here, sure, but I want to make
a couple of comments, and then i'd like barbierging to
make a few comments, and then we'll kind of bring
it to a close.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
In your book.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I've given a copy to Barbierginge since I met her,
and I got copies into the library at the prison
where her husband is, because I think it's a beautiful
thing to have her and he reading it simultaneously, exchanging
in their phone calls, their letters, whatever. And so I
know that I did a good deed there getting that
(42:04):
hooked up link that. So I thank you for writing
the book. But now in your book, though you covered
there's fifteen chapters, and you gave a very good overview.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Of everything that the program is in a very quick way.
I compliment you for that.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
But there's one thing about you that is in the
book that is so powerful that you didn't mention, and
I'm going to bring that up and then we'll go
from there.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
When we want people to learn how.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
To live with themselves, embrace freedom and who they are,
and all the things that you said chapter nine and
chapter ten relaxation, making space for new possibilities and then
ten awareness and meditation, getting clear on what's really going on.
A huge part of your whole personality, your nature, you're
(42:50):
inner being is based on a very meditative, relaxed, spiritual
I mean, you're a very spiritual person.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
You've learned to pass that on to other people.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
Mindful in this meditation is something that you've been teaching
for years. And so Barbi Ginge, that's one of the
the I won't call it a technique because it's a
it's a certain way of being. It goes way beyond philosophy.
But when a person becomes grounded and centered like that,
they can they can live within themselves in a more
(43:21):
peaceful way. And so I just wanted you, Robin to
speak to that for a moment, and then we'll give
Barbaging a chance to give some responses.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Just simply thank you for noting that, not about me,
but about the importance of the meditation it is. It
is a core element of the program, is teaching people
and reinforcing and supporting them and having a meditation practice.
I just I just think the value of it is
(43:51):
invaluable and therefore, and therefore I would feel totally remiss
if I didn't have that as something that is reinforced
literally from week to week to week to week through
the entire program, and then really encourage people to stick
with it, I would say for the rest of their lives.
I mean, I've been a disciplined meditator for forty years.
(44:13):
I can't imagine the time of my life and I
wouldn't continue to do that.
Speaker 7 (44:17):
So thank you, Steve, Barbara Jine I gave I gave
you a request to introduce your story to Robin in
the beginning of the show, and now I'm going to
give you an opportunity to give her some comments and
feedback whatever you'd like to say.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
We're down about five minutes, if that's okay.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
So I just want to thank you so much for.
Speaker 5 (44:40):
Your time, Robin, and you was talking your generosity and
your commitment to these programs and they sound absolutely incredible,
absolutely incredible. The emotional addressing, the emotional growth in my
(45:01):
experience has been the most important part of my own
personal journey.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Like, yeah, you can go through and like learn how to.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
You know, balance a checkbook and fill out an application
and have like interview skills and you know, stuff like that,
but until I learned to really love and believe in
myself and know why I do the things I.
Speaker 8 (45:26):
Do or don't do the things that I do, like
why I avoid things, And you know, my subconscious and
my past experiences have kind of cultivated into some choices
that I've made that I didn't even realize I was making.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
And so I just I love.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
The fact that your programs and your workbook and the
readings and everything are really about self reflection and not
just checking off the boxes of how to do this
and how to do that, But how do I be like.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Who am I? And who do I want to be?
Speaker 5 (46:09):
You know, and where I'm at now and where I
want to be without going through a shame labor guilt process.
Just accountability and just gut level honest and then going
forward from there. And the forgiveness piece is so important
(46:30):
for people both inside and out. And I just want
to thank you for not just your time today, but
what you're doing. I think it's absolutely incredible and I
look forward to talking with you more and diving right
into it with you. I really admire what you're doing,
(46:51):
and I thank you from love.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Thank you so much, and I want to.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Will you know, everybody that's listening, I know you've got
hope from today's show to just know that there are
at least two angels in the world named Robin and
Barbera Jean that are out there doing so much good
in the world, spreading so much love, caring so much
about all of us. And if I didn't have people
(47:19):
like Robin and Barbara Jean in my life to know
that I'm being cared about, I probably wouldn't be able
to move on every day either. So that's one of
the missing components is is knowing that you can be loved,
and I certainly feel that with the two of you,
and I thank you both for that. I want to
sum up a little paraphrase of what today's show is,
(47:42):
what the message is, and this is going to some
scripture that I like to bring into the show. This
is from Romans twelve to two. Do not conform to
the pattern of this world, but be transformed by.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
The renewing of your mind.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
Then you will be able to test and approve what
God's will is good, pleasing and perfect will. A second
one that is right in the program that you've heard
about today coming from John eight thirty two.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Then you will know the.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
Truth, and the truth will set you free. That's your truth.
And then from Colossians three two. I think this is
kind of where we need to all be. I've asked
many people in my travels when I'm teaching in schools
for the at risk, you know what people's goals are.
But I've learned that I think the highest goal that
(48:32):
we all see is to be at peace and to
know that we're loved. But to peace, that's the one
word that I think we can kind of embody it
all into. And here's just a beautiful thing on how
to get there Colossians three two. Set your minds on
things above, not on earthly things. Well, with that said Barbara, Jean,
(48:55):
I'm sure this is not the last time that you'll
have a chance to have interaction with Robin, because it
wouldn't surprise me if you end up making your life
commitment to be part of the Lionheart Foundation and continue
the work that Robin does for years to come.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
And I'll be part of that with you, by the way.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
But that said Robin, today was the one hundred and
ninety eighth show. Next week, my wife Donna's going to
be the one hundred and ninety ninth show, and she's
going to talk about our journey together somewhat and where
we are with life'sp You know, life can be turbulent sometimes, but.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yet we never want to give up.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
We know there's always going to be a way to
continue when you're when you're surrounded by people like I said,
y'all are and other people in the world. So the
world's really not bad, it's just confused sometimes. And so
then the following week, I've got my two hundred show.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
But Robin, I just.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
One more time. In the very beginning, you reached out
and pulled me up. And when I couldn't get sponsors
to get my foundation started to get it going, I
had a owner out there that couldn't even give me
money because it had to be ear marked to a
nonprofit and I didn't have my status yet. And so
you offered without me asking to be that sponsoring nonprofit
(50:12):
for me, and and we've just over the years it's
just grown so beautiful, and Robin, I just I just
thank you. I love you, and I just wish you
all the all the best, all the health, and and
just you just keep doing what you're doing, and I
promise you that you already know it. You're reaching so
many people and we thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Thank you, Steve, and back at you with all of that,
thank you for you have a true heart of gold
as no question, Barb reginas as well, and it's an
honor and a blessing to be here with the both
of you today and keep up your awesome work, both
of you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Thank you well everyone.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
I know that you've been touched by today's show and
I look forward to next week with my wife Donna
being my guest and everyone, have a wonderful week.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
And God bless you.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
Thanks for listening to right Thinking with Steve Copeland. I'll
look forward to being with you again next week and
remember it, don't quit plan ahead. It will get better.
God bless you, and have a great week.
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