Breaking News! Donna Adelson Puts Charlie's Ex-Friend in the Hotseat!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Everyone.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Yeah, I don't want to give it to you.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
Why why would have said.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Favors unders?

Speaker 5 (00:28):
I have to go with I have to go, I
have to I can't help.

Speaker 6 (00:31):
We also know I have to say, please, don't.

Speaker 5 (00:35):
Ground take the bags. Yeah, and you know the way outside.

Speaker 7 (00:39):
Okay, years old, you can't.

Speaker 8 (00:42):
I can't.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Oh don't you see?

Speaker 7 (00:48):
So it's kind to help him, yet he is terrible.

Speaker 9 (00:57):
Okay, we do.

Speaker 10 (01:00):
Please, no, no, no, do you have any value in you?

Speaker 4 (01:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:18):
Take it off.

Speaker 4 (01:31):
You are listening to the ROBERTA.

Speaker 11 (01:33):
Glass True Crime Report, putting the true back in true crime.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
From New York City.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
ROBERTA. Glass is now on the record.

Speaker 12 (02:12):
Okay, we are live.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm very excited. Before I get into all the latest
Donna Adelson news, and there's a new filing today, we
will go over it. But I have a very special
guest with a very important announcement, the always lovely Allison
Galvani from your father's Alibi channel, and she's got some

(02:35):
breaking news in the case the cold case of her mother,
Nancy Galvani.

Speaker 13 (02:43):
Welcome, Allison, Thank you so much for Berta and yeah,
thank you for your support over the last several months
in my mother's case covering my mother's case, advocating that
although it's been over forty years, my mother still deserves

(03:04):
justice and there's overwhelming evidence against my father and her murder.
Roberta's community wrote emails to the Assistant DA, mister Morris Maya.
He is now they've done through investigation, going through everything again.

(03:30):
They are passionate about the case. The last step is
that mister Wagstaff needs the approval of his boss, who's
the DA, to file charges. So as it was so

(03:50):
impactful a public Roberta's community reaching out to mister Maya
in the first place, and I'm just so grateful for
all that. If any of you would be willing emailing
mister Wagstaff, who let's see we put up his email.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
It's gonna black us out for a second, but yeah,
there it is. So if you can write that email
and email him and say it's important that Nancy Galvani
for you personally, that Nancy Galvani, that that we see
justice for her and hopefully and important for her daughter

(04:42):
and her grandchildren and in fact we move forward to
the case. Is that I mean, that's what you're I mean,
that's what I would say. I don't know what is
there anything I missed?

Speaker 13 (04:54):
No? No, absolutely, I mean if even if people just
say that, you know, nance see Gavanni still deserves justice.
I think, you know, even though there's no statute limitations
on murder, when it's a cold case over forty years,
uh DA's can be more hesitant to devote resources to

(05:19):
the case unless the public is still interested. So that's
how it's been so impactful with people reaching Outbert if
it's okay, because I think it's very I mean, I'm biased.
I think it's very powerful. Can I read the email
that Sarah wrote a couple of days ago to Attorney

(05:41):
wag Staff? Okay, So, dear District Attorney wag Staff. My
name is Sarah Gavanni Townsend. I'm eighteen years old and
about to begin my first year at Yale University, an
opportunity I consider tremendous privilege. But as I prepare for
this new chapter in my life, I can't help but

(06:01):
feel the weight of someone who is missing. My grandmother,
Nancy Gavani, was a kind, funny, and deeply compassionate woman.
She was murdered when my mother was just five years old,
and as a result, I never had the chance to
meet her. Her absence has been present at every milestone
of my life. I think of her often at birthdays, holidays,

(06:22):
award ceremonies, and on quiet days when I simply wish
I could know her. I wish she had been there
to comfort my mom through her hardest moments and to
witness her grandchildren grow up. My sixteen year old brother,
my fourteen year old sister, and I have missed out
on the love and presence of someone who should have
been a guiding figure in our lives. I'm writing to

(06:43):
ask that your office give further attention to her case.
I understand that resources are limited and that many cases
cross your desk, but I ask you sincerely and respectfully.
A woman's life was taken, her car was found, and
her ex husban's garage the murder instruments missing from his trunk.

(07:04):
Nancy Gavani was a mother, a daughter, and she could
have been a grandmother. This case is about honoring her
life and ensuring that violence like this is never quietly forgotten.
Please do whatever is within your power to pursue justice. Sadly,
but without doubt, there was overwhelming evidence against her estranged husband.

(07:24):
My grandmother deserves an attempt from your office to bring
it to accountability. Her name deserves to be spoken, her
story deserves to be heard, and her family deserves to
know that her life has not been dismissed or ignored.
Thank you for your time and your service. I'd be
grateful for the opportunity to speak further if that would
be helpful in any way, Sincerely, Sarah Gahuannie Townsend.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
What a beautifully written letter and so moving, just the
quiet moments when we should have known her at something
like that. It's so beautiful.

Speaker 13 (07:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was. I was touched by by
Sarah's letter. Yeah, so I hope that the DA will
be as well.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
And you don't have to be a great writer. Just
put down how you feel in an email and write them.
You don't have to be a fantastic writer like Alison's daughter.
You can just put down how you feel and it's
important to you and mail it off email at off
as soon as possible. The more voices they hear from

(08:35):
it really has made a difference, right Alison, just the.

Speaker 13 (08:39):
An instrumental it's just extraordinary to me. I hadn't no,
I had lost hope even though the case was so strong.
You know, I see cases successfully prosecuted, you know, as
we follow true crime, and there's overwhelming evidence against my father.

(09:02):
But yeah, he's escaped accountability as like an affluent ah,
as an affluent defendant with high profile, powerful lawyers. It's
really been like a two tiered justice system. But finally,

(09:23):
after all this time, your supporters reaching out, uh, prompted
action in the case. Finally, and yeah, the lead detective
she said that this is you know, it's stronger than
a lot of these other famous cases. We could go

(09:46):
into the evidence, but then would be hijacking from this
other important, similar, similar case, the Denmark hel case is
in its at his essence, like very similar to my
mother's case. So like his boys that the case really
resonates with with my situation. So anyway, Yes, even a

(10:14):
sentence in an email that Nancy Gavani still deserves justice,
that that itself just is impactful, has been impactful.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
And it's important to you, and you'll be watching their office.
I mean they they I think they answer to accountability hopefully.

Speaker 13 (10:34):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Neo Walla says, Yeah, even the sentences that you're aware
of the case and it's outrageous and that you'd like
to see justice. Yeah, it's just they've also been robbed
of a grand of a relation, of a deep relationship
with their grandfather too, wouldn't you say, would you see

(10:56):
it that way Allison? Or no, m you mean in
my kid's case, Yeah, I mean he by that, by
that act, By that act, I mean destroyed there. I mean,
if he's guilty, which you know, I the evidence all

(11:16):
points to him doing it. Certainly her car was in
his garage. I mean that's you know, some crazy, crazy
coincidence when that and he's the last person that's here
or alive, and there's other strange, you know, elements of
the case that all point to him, that that selfish act.
I mean, I don't know. I guess maybe you could

(11:39):
say his personality may have may have ended it too
without without that act act, But certainly that act was
an act of finality of that. You just can't forgive
somebody for.

Speaker 13 (11:52):
Uh, you know, absolutely that extreme narcissism that he did,
and I think is an element of his personality. Yeah,
I mean they don't have either grandparent. And you know,

(12:16):
of course, now that I realize he's guilty, I was
in denial for many years as a kid. But you know,
at this point I'm completely estranged from him. And yeah,
for those who don't know this, Roberta was referring to
My mother had after violence in nineteen eighty two. The

(12:39):
summer nineteen eight two, she filed for divorce. We had
been living somewhere else in San Francisco, and the night
that she was murdered, I was spending the weekend with him.
He It's written in my mother's diary that my father,

(13:00):
my mother was supposed to pick me up Monday morning,
but he asked her when I was already with my father,
he called and asked her to come Sunday night instead,
and meanwhile he had me at his uncle's house. Coincidentally,
someone of the same name Pat, which is why my

(13:23):
channels referred to my father's alibi was his false alibi.
He claimed I was his alibi. But she left telling
a number of witnesses who are still alive, actually apparently
that she was going to go pick me up, be
right back at eight eight pm, and her car was seen.

(13:44):
Her yellow Buick, very distinctive car was seen in his
driveway just around eight when she was supposed to be
picking me up. But he had me at his uncle's house.
She was strangled, Her body was weighted down with a
it was wrapped in the sleeping bag that was in

(14:05):
the trunk of her car, and a cinderblock was tied
to her body. Her body was dumped over a bridge
in the Bay Area, and it's actually found the next day.
And yeah, when the police came within the week, they
found my mother's car in his garage, several other pieces

(14:32):
of evidence, and he was arrested at that point, but
the charges were then dropped, and so that was in August.
The charges were dropped in December, with the DA saying
the day at the time saying we're not saying for
a minute he didn't do it. We're just saying with

(14:52):
this less than fifty percent chance that he would be convicted.
All along, they believed my father that I was his alibi.
They hadn't realized until, like I talked to them as
an adult, that my father had sent me elsewhere that night.

(15:19):
It was nineteen eighty two.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Wow. So, I mean, this has been a very part
I mean I take this as a very positive development
that you have at least one DA on your side,
and we just need to make this final push, and
I don't know. I have good feelings about this, but
maybe I'm overly optimistic, Allison. I always try to, you know,

(15:49):
I have very good feelings that this will go forward.
Hopefully his lawyer is his lawyer still practicing Hecker.

Speaker 13 (15:58):
When Hecker is retired, and in fact he has a
different lawyer.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Now, Okay, yeah, that guy. I mean that guy. Oh.
I understand the need for criminal defense lawyers, but just
morally as a person, some of the things they do,
I don't know. I couldn't be a defense lawyer. I
would not be a defense lawyer. Would it be my profession.

(16:26):
I understand it intellectually, but emotionally and morality wise. When
I was reading just the pieces and the statements, they
just really what they did is really threw your mother
under the bus and did the what would be called,
I mean extreme victim blaming. They said she was hanging around,

(16:51):
you know, bad people, that maybe she was a drug addict,
maybe she was hanging around I mean just an anything
to cast out on your father's guilt.

Speaker 13 (17:05):
Yeah, I mean that's what my father told me, even
from the age of five, that O a serial killer
who was killing I mean, these this wouldn't be my words,
but it was killing whores. Was killed her whish. I
didn't even know what that meant until he, h yeah,

(17:27):
his lawyer made a big deal that my mother had
red nail polish. And my father always said, like I
was the best thing that could have happened to you,
her being killed, that you would be a druggie like her.
Eventually I did, as actually a police report a phone call,

(17:47):
ask him like, well, what drugs are you talking about?
He said, oh, I don't know, marijuana. But yeah, he
disparaged her as mentally ill. She she was suffering from
anxiety and depression, but I think that was related to
you know, her husband beating her and h including a

(18:14):
time that I still recall where he smothered her with
a pillow, which you know is I was begging him
to stop. And of course then like she was, asphyxiation
was her cause of death. So that's strikingly similar to
how he was smothering her.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
And I mean.

Speaker 13 (18:39):
She she was a social worker, she had a master's
in social work. She she was nothing like the way
that my father has described her. And even if she
were mentally ill, no, one's it's not consistent with the
evidence if it was a suicide, so it's just totally irrelevant.

(19:00):
She didn't strangle herself and throw herself bound to cinder
block off the bridge. So yeah, those were just ways
of dehumanizing her, which it seemed effective in nineteen eighty
two to make her her death seem less important than if.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
But anyway, yeah, yeah, maybe maybe you'd like to come
back and maybe we can do a whole, a whole
you know episode. Maybe I don't know if you're up
for it and do it.

Speaker 14 (19:38):
Oh yeah, I would make the coverage. Yes, yeah, I
just have one last question. So your father said to
you that you're lucky she died or I don't know,
died was murdered?

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Really, Uh did he did he talk about it in
terms of like that or did he was it like
a natural death? Did he describe it like a natural death?
That he use the word died or murdered?

Speaker 13 (20:09):
He he would use words like dyed was killed.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
But more passive gendler words than murdered. But it reminds
me a little bit of looking at when you look
at Donna Adelson's emails, just moving it into this case.
You know, you made a parallel between the case of
you know, the Adolsen case since her she talks about

(20:38):
Dan Markell being a zealot and that the boys will
be so conservatively you know, uh, we'll be practicing conservative
Jews and out of mainstream society. Is really what she
means an outcast, that they won't accept the Adolson part
of the family anymore because they're not conservative juice she's

(21:02):
she I mean, essentially, she's a like liking it to
a cult, saying well, we're not going to be in
the cult anymore. Not saying that Orthodox Judaism is a cult.
But that's how Donna Aedelson wrote about it and saw it,
and that if you don't do these things like work
on this relocation and and punish him by converting your

(21:26):
children to Catholicism and dressing them up in Nazi uniforms,
then you will be on the outside, will be they
won't want to eat at your home anymore. I mean,
so it's it's I think, do you think that's that's
what Donna Agelson and Wynny Aedelson tell themselves that had
he lived, it's a good thing for the children that
he that he was murdered.

Speaker 13 (21:47):
I think that's what they tell themselves. Yeah, I think
that that's that's just that's the way of rationalizing it.
And it's the same kind of ah way that my
father has rationalized it, that it was something he did
for me, just like.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Donna and Wendy.

Speaker 13 (22:13):
They they told themselves even though it's not it wasn't true,
it wasn't true my mother's case, that that Dan my
mother were such bad influences that I would be better off,
they'd be better off without them.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Terrible Alis and Gavanni. I hope you come back. Can
you please come back and we'll do a longer episode
on this, and yeah, that I would really.

Speaker 13 (22:45):
Yeah, Roberta. Yeah, my my daughter Sarah who that email?
I have three kids, but Sarah is the she's the
old she's an adult now, she's eighteen. She said she'd
be happy to come on your show and talk about
it Friday as well.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
So let's make it. Let's make that happen.

Speaker 13 (23:06):
Okay, great, and thank you so.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Much for Allison. So let me just share before you go,
let me just share one more time. Please write an email.
What is his full name? Uh da Wagstaff, Yeah, d Wagstaff.

Speaker 13 (23:22):
So the s is that's his first name.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Stephen.

Speaker 13 (23:25):
But yeah, mister Wagstaff, and it's his email, It's Wagstaff.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, and just let him know that justice for Nancy
Calvanni is important to you. Send off that email, do
not delay, do not put it on your list of
things to do. To do it immediately. And let's let's
get that push going for uh Alison and of course
Nancy Calvanni and everyone who loved her, and her grandchildren,

(23:58):
everyone who loved her. That's hope, try to see if
we can get some justice for her.

Speaker 13 (24:04):
Thank you so much, Roberta. And to thank everyone in
your community, take care.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Thank you Allison, thank you for doing this. Okay, that
was a treat so going on into the big news.
So I really do hope people do this. And if
you forget, you think it's too late, just do it.

(24:31):
Just send it off. Even if you think it's too late,
do it. If you remember it weeks now. But that's
why I say do it right away, even a few
powerful lines. It's really as let's try to get as
many people from our community to write an email to

(24:51):
the DA Wagstaff. It's the email address is up there
on the screen for those listening on podcasts. S W
a G s T A f f E at s
m c gov dot org. Again, s W A G
S T A F s T A f f e

(25:14):
at s m C gov dot org. Are right, so
always a pleasure. If you're not subscribed to my father's
Alibi channel, I recommend it. Alison has been a good
friend to the show, Cheryl says ROBERTA. I love the

(25:38):
way you you end every episode with the impact statements,
reminding us what this is all about. My no other
podcast or does this. Thanks so much. I'm so glad
people are getting something out of those victim impact statements.
I think they're powerful too, and it can a good sense.

(26:00):
You know, what's so interesting about them is how similar
they all are and how they describe Dan Markel. A
lot of people remark on his Bambizil Birthday greeting cards.
I'm not exactly sure his Bambizil Birthday emails. His energy,

(26:22):
his enthusiasm, his love of bringing people together, his incredible intellect.
I mean, you can't miss that when you listen to them.
Thank you, Cheryl. Appreciate that this is a victim centered
true crime channel. Not too many of them out there. Okay,
So Donna Adelson put down a new filing today and

(26:48):
she is setting her sites on Charlie Adelson's ex friend,
Ryan Fitzpatrick. I also have some updates on him. Oh lord,
I always thought he was a Oh actually I put
up the wrong thing. My apologies. Here we go. So

(27:10):
she is going to be deposing Charlie Adelson. Donna Adelson,
can you all see that? Maybe I'll make it a
little bigger for those in the back, please take notice
of the defendant. Donna Adelson will take the deposition by
oral examination of the person named below. The deposition will
take place via zoom. So on the eleventh we had

(27:31):
Drina Bernhardt the snitch you Donna Adelson's ex friend from
Leon County Jail, being deposed tomorrow at nine am. Ryan Fitzpatrick,
Charlie Adelson's ex friend. I'll just play a little clip
of him. He's testified in this case to Charlie Adelson's

(27:57):
change in behavior. Will look at his testimon but before
we do a legal focus did I thought it was
the most enlightening interview with him because in the middle
of the interview, Hey, Dean Walker, thanks so much for
the supersticker. Nice to see you. I hope you're doing well.

(28:20):
Thanks for your support, appreciate it. In the middle of
the interview, he gets a knock on the door. This
is something that Maester put together. I hope I still
have it up here. Yeah, and he it's a someone

(28:40):
asking for steroids. And you can see I saw an
interview maybe a year ago on a podcast and he
looked even more steroided out than he does here. This
is just my view. He may not be, this is
just my eyes. This may all be untrue. Don't sue me.

(29:04):
But here here's that interview with Judy from a legal focus.
Take take a look.

Speaker 8 (29:10):
The special guest is Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Speaker 15 (29:19):
Charlie had a lot of money and I got into
a legal funding business where he and another partner were
the money guys or whatever. They gave me a credit
line and I would loan money advance money on their
potential injury settlements, and I would buy medical.

Speaker 9 (29:37):
Receivables for personal injury lawsuits.

Speaker 15 (29:40):
And it just, you know, looking back, I mean, maybe
they were trying to use me to longer money or something.
It was good for a little bit. I paid myself
as the managing partner of the firm. It obviously didn't
work out well. He closed down the business, tried to
pull the rug out from under me. We had a
lot of money on the streets. I was expected to

(30:00):
collect that money. When I was collecting this money to
pay him back, I was accused of racketeering, embezzlement, fraud, conversion,
and theft.

Speaker 9 (30:10):
And I admitted to it. Yes, I did pay myself
to collect your two million dollars.

Speaker 8 (30:14):
Yeah, I think I was insied trading.

Speaker 15 (30:17):
When you're into something in business wise with someone that
you kind of like turn the head a little bit
and you're like, uh, I just got to get through this,
got to get through this, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 9 (30:28):
Tally had more money, and you know what to do
with I was. I was with Charlie. I was with
him today and he was in surgery.

Speaker 15 (30:38):
I had an office in the back of the dental
office that he was doing surgery.

Speaker 9 (30:43):
And he freaked out and I was like, what's going on.
He's like, oh, so and so just got ar wrestled.

Speaker 15 (30:49):
He would call me and it would be like a
forty five minute conversation every day, every day, repeatedly.

Speaker 9 (30:57):
And I was with him that day.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Oh okay, hmmm.

Speaker 9 (31:02):
Interesting Charlie steroid business.

Speaker 8 (31:07):
Oh yeah, No, he was caught off our taps talking
about selling steroids and selling weed.

Speaker 9 (31:17):
He wasn't selling.

Speaker 15 (31:18):
He was just an idiot that was trying to be
cool to get something for someone as a middleman and
to like probably benefit himself.

Speaker 9 (31:27):
No, Charlie didn't sell steroids.

Speaker 8 (31:29):
I do recall hearing some ward tab where he was
talking about selling steroids to somebody.

Speaker 9 (31:34):
Yeah, I know Charlie was not selling steroids.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
He might.

Speaker 15 (31:39):
It might have been like a conversation where like, hey,
I know a guy I can do this for you.
And you know, No, he didn't know a steroid business. No,
I just told the truth. So I wasn't worried at all.
They know what I did, They know who I am.
I sent him a picture of my driver's license, I said,
around find out I don't get some No, I wasn't worried.

(32:01):
I can understand that question.

Speaker 9 (32:03):
But no, I wasn't worried.

Speaker 15 (32:05):
No, I'm not worried. Good question, I guess I don't know.
I'm not worried at all. You know, it's like June said,
it was like a fair.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
What's that?

Speaker 9 (32:20):
Well, it was banging on my door.

Speaker 8 (32:22):
Huh, oh jeez, okay, m hm okay, No, I wasn't
worried those idiots.

Speaker 9 (32:33):
Okay, but don't be sorry for me. It's uh, you know,
don't do the good work.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
M hmm.

Speaker 6 (32:42):
I just wanted my steroids.

Speaker 9 (32:46):
What ah.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, a lot.

Speaker 9 (32:54):
He blew it.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Mhm uh okay, sure.

Speaker 9 (33:04):
Illegitimate allegations that.

Speaker 8 (33:10):
Back in twenty sixteen when people got arrested. Three not
many people in South Florida.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, he also.

Speaker 8 (33:21):
Spoke, both of them spoke on the maybe he would
show up. Okay, how did Charlie make his money? Do
you a person can get up? Oh jeez, huh okay,
Well we'll try to wrap it up quickly then, okay,

(33:43):
that was random.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Okay, all right, that was Maestros beautifully edited. A great
interview by Judy of AA Legal Focus. I don't know,
she didn't know what she got a lot of people
said it was a joke. You can see his demeanor changing.

(34:05):
As someone who does live streams, I will tell you
my impression is that it wasn't a joke. That looks
like that guy was stopping by and I'm not saying
he had a business, right, So he makes an interesting
very much rejects the idea that Charlie Aedelson had a

(34:28):
steroid business or selling steroids. So you can sell steroids
to your friend or to your buddies or to your
acquaintances to maybe buy them, I don't know, buy them
in bulk, get a better deal somehow, right, benefit yourself.
But it seems like Ryan Fitzpatrick is hung up on

(34:49):
the word business. Whether it was a real business that
brought in a lot of money or not he was
selling steroids or he said he was on the wire tap.
You can take that what it how may. I don't
see how anybody just who wasn't in on the conversation

(35:10):
just bursting in and saying, I'm here to get my steroids.
I just gave to get the stair riids would think
that that was funny. Some people to say it was
a joke. I think that they were up to something nefarious.
That's my take, probably steroids and maybe something else. I
don't know. Yeah, he looked mad and embarrassed. That was

(35:32):
my take on it. And just as someone who live streams,
it wasn't just the fact that he was having his
live stream interrupted. It was the embarrassed you know, that
embarrassment something going on that you can't control. That's the
way I read it. I don't know if I'm any
better at doing reading it than anyone else. I just

(35:55):
do a lot of live streams. I don't know. I
don't know, I don't know. So that's the guy. And
not only that, but he has not had the best.

Speaker 12 (36:12):
How do I say it, the best, the best shot
of the best.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Time with the law. So let me show you he's
gotten involved with a hit and run the past year.
So here's this smug shot and then you go under it.
There's this one hit and run and then leaving the

(36:39):
scene of a crash involving damage to property and then
moving traffic violation. He was driving while his license was suspended.
And he's an habitual offender. And you can see he's
a habitual offender because look underneath there at all the
mug shots. Look at these, Look at these, Look how

(37:04):
far back they go. So that's a little background. He
also went with Charlie on his trips to Asia too,

(37:27):
where he said Charlie had relations with children, female children
who weren't of age.

Speaker 13 (37:38):
So that is hit.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Let's look at his testimony. It's a lot of arrests right, Lollie.
A lot of arrests, so, and it seemed like the
perfect Again. You know what's interesting about looking at that,
when you look at all the those mugshots, it's very

(38:03):
much like so Charlie Aedelson hiring Ryan Fitzpatrick to run
his shady businesses is very much the way Charlie Aedolson
hired Sigfredo Garcia to murder Dan Markel. So someone who

(38:25):
he thought was already involved with the law, who was
of a lesser social class than he was, who didn't
come from you know, all the his parents lost his wealth,
their wealth in a Ponzi scheme. You can go back
to my episode on that. But he came from a

(38:46):
privileged background. So when he was looking to do something
outside of the confines of the law, of course he
goes to a poor person outside who's already had trouble
with the law and things that they're going to be
the fall guy. So if the business goes down, he'll
just blame it on Ryan Fitzpatrick. And it sounds like

(39:08):
I have not read all the legal filings in their case,
but it sounds like a little bit when they were
suing each other, a little bit of they what he
may have been doing there. So Charlie Aedelson what he
really objects to in his charals singing again to his

(39:30):
jail house calls this morning, and he was talking about
how upset he was that Ryan Fitzpatrick was described by
Georgia Kapelman as his best friend in two thousand and fourteen,
when he barely knew him then, but they did become
really close friends. So he takes that one maybe little

(39:57):
I don't know what you call it, mistake by the
prosecutor untruth and stretches it till they lied about everything.
He calls his friend to tell him he's been convicted,
and his friend's like.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
No way.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
You're like, how good a friend is this of Charlie Adelson, says,
anyone who were that call that who wasn't following the
trial at all at all, that he hadn't heard the
news that he was convicted, He's like, no way. And
this call is a little different than the other calls
because Donna Adelson's can't really be a good audience for

(40:31):
all of Charlie Aedelson's whopper lies and stretches of the truth.
So this one, this guy seemed like the perfect perfect
target for all his whopper lies about his case. They
were all coincidences, all coincidences. You know the fact that
my mother, I'm just convicted because my mother said the

(40:54):
TV was five thousand dollars and that's what TVs were
back then.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
No, no, no, and no.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Sounds good. Sounds like the Edison's project, frankly, and they're
tall tales about the cases they represent. All right, here
is Ryan Fitzpatrick. Let's take a look on this at
what Donna Adelson is desperately trying they witness. She's desperately

(41:23):
trying to mine for any information that might be useful
for her. That's one of the things you do in
these kind of depositions. So this deposition starts tomorrow at
nine o'clock. Donna Aedelson's lawyers are going to depose Ryan Fitzpatrick,
Charlie Aedelson's ex friend. And you're also trying to poke

(41:44):
holes in some of the damaging statements and try to
find trying to trip them up and make them make
statements that are a little different or contradict the statements
they made under oath. So let's take a listen to
his testimony in Charlie's case. Just keep it too, I

(42:20):
go why Ryan Fitzpatrick. I woke up thinking strangely about
Ryan Fitzpatrick because I guess because he was the witness
that came after after Jeffrey Lacosse the cass and I
was like, how is this gy? Why is he on

(42:41):
the witnesses for Donna? But it is a family case,
so testimony against one person is testimony against another. So
the fact that Charlie Edelsen stapled the money and june
Em Chinda came before this, we can look at her statement. Strangely,

(43:04):
Donna loved her testimony. That's because she held back and
it was basically like Georgia Capelman had to testify and
read her past statements after Junam Chinda said she didn't know.
I mean, she was obviously protecting Charlie and the Adelson family.
It was really Georgia Kapelman had to testify in that case.

(43:26):
We can look at that after this if we have time.
But these are the two friends. So Junam Chinda, Charlie
Adelson's ex girlfriend, came before before Ryan Fitzpatrick, and here's
Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Speaker 16 (43:53):
Ever, one maybe Sudan remembers of the jury of the
defense was wanting to have a very book you recross.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry back, I went back too far.
My apologies? What okay? I went I went way way
too far.

Speaker 4 (44:21):
At the time that Dan markin.

Speaker 16 (44:29):
These questions, pretty soon.

Speaker 10 (44:34):
I seeks really good.

Speaker 6 (44:39):
Members of the jury, drawing anyone else?

Speaker 9 (44:44):
No for.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
But oh the time.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
From thank you?

Speaker 12 (44:56):
Apologies guys.

Speaker 17 (44:59):
Yeah, please raise your right handser, do you swear or
affirm a testimony you're about to give will be the truth?

Speaker 3 (45:15):
You may take your seat, sir.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
Please say your name and spell your name.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
Ryan Fitzpatrick R Y A N F I t Z
P A t R A c K.

Speaker 4 (45:29):
Where do you live, sir, Florida? And what line of
work are you in in roofing?

Speaker 3 (45:34):
Now?

Speaker 4 (45:35):
Okay? Do you or did you at some time have
a relationship with Charlie Aedelson? Were you guys friends? How close?

Speaker 3 (45:42):
Were you very close?

Speaker 4 (45:44):
What time frame were you close friends with Charlie Aedelson?

Speaker 3 (45:48):
From about the time that I moved to South Florida
and around about twenty twelve, and then as years passed
we grew a lot closer until until about two and
eighteen nineteen.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
All Right, didn't Ryan Fitzpatrick say he called him from
work and he would talk for hours, but it almost
seemed like Ryan Fitzpatrick was saying that he would repeat himself,
which we all know Charlie Edelson does. It's starting to
thunderstorm here, So maybe he called from a different line

(46:26):
and they didn't catch it. Maybe it wasn't his cell phone,
Maybe it wasn't the thing that they wired. So True Crime, Wifey,
thank you for the super chat is asking, hey, we're
bert and chat. If Ryan was on the phone with
Charlie constantly after arrest of hitman, why aren't there any
wire taps of that? Fitzpatrick is shady. He is shady.

(46:46):
Maybe a different phone. We know he liked to use
different phones. True Crime Wify, I don't know, do you
maybe the work phone at the at the you know
he moonlighted all over the place.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
A lot of time together. Yes, ma'am, did you talk
to him daily? Did you know his family, meet his
girlfriends' Can you do you see him here in the
courtroom today? Would you point him out and describe what
he's wearing?

Speaker 3 (47:22):
White shirt?

Speaker 4 (47:23):
The record reflect the witness has identified the defendant. Was
the defendant Miss Radilson very close to his sister, Wendy.
If you know how did the family that Adelson family
feel about Dan Markel not fond? And did that include

(47:43):
Charlie Aedelson? I mentioned the girlfriends. Did miss Radilson have
a lot of girlfriends? Was one of them Catherine macvanaa?
Did you ever have an occasion to meet her?

Speaker 3 (47:56):
I think in passing, I might have met her once
or twice, but I didn't have a personal relationship with her.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
Now did she stand out to you as being someone
special or of more importance to him than any of
the other women in his life?

Speaker 9 (48:09):
Objection leading I'll stay employees or phrase your question.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
So yes or no question? Did she stand out to
him as being somehow special or different from the other
women in his life? Are you familiar with the defendant's
practice of stapling his money? Do you know the denominations

(48:36):
or how he would staple it?

Speaker 9 (48:40):
Ten?

Speaker 3 (48:40):
One hundreds would be one thousand, easier to count that way.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
At the time that Dan Markel was murdered, how did
you learn of the murder?

Speaker 3 (48:55):
I can't remember. They never spoke about it.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
So, and when you say they ever spoke about it,
who was that? So you didn't learn about the murder
from your close friend?

Speaker 3 (49:06):
I do not believe so. No, not directly.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
Right after the murder. Did mister Adelson tell you that
his girlfriend, Katherine Macbanawa was extorting money out of him?
Does that seem like something he would have mentioned to you? Imagine, So,
when law enforcement posing as a thug approached his mother

(49:37):
in what we're referring to as the bump, did he
tell you about that?

Speaker 3 (49:41):
I don't recall him to them.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
He didn't tell you that he thought that the person
that approached his mother was either the FBI or someone
posing as Rivera's brother.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
I can't remember if Charlie directly said that to me,
and so I don't know. It's been so long, Okay.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
Did he ever make a statement to you about murder?

Speaker 3 (50:10):
Charlie, as you've heard in testimony and DeVos that he
made a lot about tasteless jokes, and he said something
there on the lines and you can get away with anything,
you get away with murder, and you keep your mouth shut.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
When was that statement made years ago, before or after
this murder?

Speaker 3 (50:27):
It would be after.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
If you can keep your mouth shut, that's a big
if in the Aolson family. I'm going to make a poll.
Do you think that Adolson's family succeeded if.

Speaker 12 (50:39):
That is true.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
If it's true that you can keep get away with
murder if you keep your mouth shut. Although, let me
make this poll. Do you think that the Adlson family
succeeded with that? So here we go, let's do a poll.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
Did the.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Edelson family keep their mouth shut?

Speaker 7 (51:15):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (51:16):
No?

Speaker 2 (51:16):
I think that's a pretty fair yes. No, I mean
his version of keeping your mouth shut is We'll check
in on that in a little bit. Okay, back to
Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
Was his behavior after are you familiar with the arrest
that occurred in May May May of twenty sixteen, I
should have clarified Kats, yes? And did his behavior change
at that point? And did he seem relieved and less
stressed out after she got arrested? What was his demeanor

(51:59):
after her?

Speaker 3 (52:00):
Nervousness? Agitation? Stress?

Speaker 4 (52:07):
So he seemed to get more stressed out after she
was a man? Was he weird like that before? Like
during the between the time of the murder and the
time of Catherine mcnana's arrest.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Say he was weird like that? Like the behaviors you
just that weird.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
All right? And are you familiar with some barbed wire
that he had around his residence.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
No, but I kind of like that idea.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
Did you when was the last time you were at
his residence at the name is escaping me while harbor?

Speaker 3 (52:45):
It would had to have been around probably the summer
of twenty eighteen, okay?

Speaker 4 (52:56):
And when you were out there, when you were at
his residence in the summer of twenty eighteen, did y'all
use the pool area, ma'am? He's got a nice grotto
style pool out.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
There, very nice, ma'am.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
And did you observe when you were out there barbed
wire around this perimeter of the pool.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
No, I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
Now A right, what about weapons? Did Charlie Adelson frequently
carry or have weapons around him?

Speaker 3 (53:25):
Charlie had a gun?

Speaker 11 (53:26):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (53:26):
Where did the gun stay, if you know, on his
person and the safe gudside table?

Speaker 3 (53:36):
I mean, I didn't know what his regular practice was,
but I can't imagine he would put him by his
bed when he slept, all right?

Speaker 4 (53:42):
Was that just the one gun that you were a rabber?
Did he have a bunch of guns?

Speaker 3 (53:45):
I believe he had more, but I can't test about
of that.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Who's the woman in behind Georgia Kappelman's so to our right.
If we're looking at Georgia Kaplan her right shoulder with
the big ear rings, in the big hair. I love
big hair, the big hair. Did anybody see the expression
she just made? Was she making that at Ryan or
something else? Okay, let's watch it again, and so keep

(54:13):
your eye on the woman in the white turtleneck, in
the big gold ear rings, in the brown hair. So
she's behind the woman with a scarf. If you're listening
on podcasts. Kind of how do I describe her? She
looks like she stepped out of the eighties a little bit,

(54:34):
not in a bad way. I think I like your style,
but you can't miss her big hair, like big hair
kind of swept back. It's like maybe she stepped out
of his extra in Dynasty or something like that.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
I mean, I don't know what his regular practice was.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Look at her now, she's starting to smile. I don't
know what her his regular practice is.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Imagine he put it by his bed when he slept.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
All right, Was that just the one gun that you
were a rare or did he have a bunch of guns?

Speaker 3 (55:03):
I believe he had more, but I can't test about it.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
That So when you were Now she's now her face
has totally changed. That she was smiling at at the
gun answer, and now now she's dead serious with her
hand in front of her face. Odd.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
What do you?

Speaker 9 (55:22):
What do you?

Speaker 2 (55:23):
What does everyone else think of that?

Speaker 18 (55:26):
Odd?

Speaker 13 (55:26):
Right?

Speaker 4 (55:27):
For in the residence, there weren't guns laid out in
the residence, not like my house. Now, did you have
a falling out of some kind with mister Adelson?

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 4 (55:44):
When did that occur?

Speaker 3 (55:45):
I would say about the last time that I recall
vaguely being at his residence, probably all the summer in
twenty eighteen.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
Okay, And you guys have filed lawsuits against each other
or just one direction.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Charlie had filed a lawsuit against myself and others since
been dismissed.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
So all right, And so you don't like the guy anymore?

Speaker 3 (56:08):
I mean he's not a big fan, okay.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
And you said have you said some ugly things about
him on social media and that sort of thing?

Speaker 3 (56:16):
I've said it to him, all right?

Speaker 4 (56:18):
And is are you here to try to bring him down? No?

Speaker 3 (56:23):
I don't want to be here at all.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
Pursue went to a sabpena one moment, please.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Just a little bit more, He was recently arrested. I
think someone else is asking about his arrest. They don't
give Gregorius. Isn't it all name? It's Palm Beach, Florida. Uh,
he was arrested. He was arrested also in Charlottesville, Charlotte. Oh, Charlotte, Florida.

(56:57):
Sorry Charlotte Arta around the airport road for violation of
probation or community control there. And this happened just last month,
so the ninth of July twenty twenty five. You just

(57:20):
can't seem to stay out of trouble. I mean, it's
a treasure trove. I mean, we could just keep going
into these. It's like almost one every year. So then
two days before that we looked like this is something
else out of county warrant. So yeah, we can just

(57:47):
go crazy looking at all his arrests. So in another chord,

(58:25):
if you were making those kind of looks in the gallery,
you could be kicked out. Another judge would could kick
you out for trying to influence the jury or just
being distracting. I know in the Naxium case, a journalist
was kicked out for just giving a look. So you

(58:46):
just don't see those kind of expressive people in the
gallery very often. That's why I pointed out people with
their mouths smiling and their mouth head open. I mean,
sometimes you can smile, or sometimes the gallery laughs or whatever,
but it's not just one person, and with a just
a you can't miss one person, you can't miss like that.

(59:12):
Maybe Georgia's mom. I don't know what George's mom looks
looks like, but people say, no, I agree, Sherry's life.
I think I think we proved that today. I think

(59:35):
we proved that today. People used to get mad at
me because I was never much of a supporter. They'd
be like, Oh, he's nice, he's trying to do the
right thing. I mean, he did testify, he did answer
subpoena can give him that.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
Did you give that position in this case previously.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
In Catherine's case, yes, back in twenty twenty one. I
believe so, yes, ma'am.

Speaker 19 (01:00:04):
Okay, I'm gonna approach and have you read page forty
six and forty seven?

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
What about.

Speaker 6 (01:00:19):
Here's no question too, she's refreshing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Yeah, refresh your recollection and your deposition.

Speaker 6 (01:00:26):
There's no questions to refresh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Did you say that he told.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
You about the bump?

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
If I said it there then I said it there.
I mean, it's just been years, so it's hard to
recall and I'm tired.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Would it refresh your recollection to review the deposition to
see exactly yes, page forty.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Six and catch and raspart not all that helps? O
good catch? Yeah, he's I think he's telling one fourth
of what he knows. I think he knows a whole
lot more against the Adelson family. I think he's telling
the bear the minimum. I don't know if it will
all be relevant to this murder, but I think he's

(01:01:15):
got a lot of the goods on Charlie. But I
think there's a lot of things that he knows. It
would also make him look bad, So it's not telling.
That's just my sense.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
It's does that refresh your recollection?

Speaker 9 (01:01:56):
So?

Speaker 4 (01:01:56):
Did mister Adelson tell you about the extortion attempt on
his mother in twenty sixteen? Yes' but definitely never told
you about Catherine meg bana Wa extorting him in twenty
fourteen or twenty fifteen.

Speaker 12 (01:02:12):
No further questions, hardy here go to what was I on?

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
I think I use what is it called? Go on
Yahoo and look up Ryan Fitzpatrick, Florida Palm Beach arrests
and it'll come up.

Speaker 6 (01:03:05):
You met Katie once or twice, right mcganaa I believe so, Yes, sir,
you didn't know her personally, No, sir, I did not.
But Charlie mentioned to you that the father of Katie's
kids tried to run him off the road, Yes, sir,
tried to kill him? Yes, sir, and that was in
twenty fourteen.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
Vaguely, yes, sir. If that's what I testify to you,
then yes.

Speaker 6 (01:03:32):
Charlie talks a lot, right, Indeed, he does, repeats himself
a ton right, Yes, sir. Now, I think Miss Capulman
just refreshed your memory that you were aware of the
bump that Charlie told you about the bump.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 6 (01:03:55):
By the way, did you communicate with Charlie on WhatsApp? Yes, sir,
or talk about murder on What's App with him?

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
No, sir.

Speaker 18 (01:04:07):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 6 (01:04:28):
Miss Kaupelman asked you about whether Charlie started to act
nervous at the time of around Katie's arrest. Do you
recall those questions? Are you aware that shortly before her arrest,
law enforcement released an affidavit calling for Charlie's arrest, which
the state attorney refused.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
What I don't understand your question.

Speaker 6 (01:04:50):
Are you aware that there was an affidavit that was
released by law enforcement calling for Charlie's arrest?

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
I believe there was like a probable cause excuse me
or something like that.

Speaker 6 (01:05:01):
Yes, sir, And that was broadcast to the entire world.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
Right, it was broadcast, yes, sir.

Speaker 6 (01:05:08):
And that was back in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Correct, Belisa, Yes, sir, that's when I was sorry.

Speaker 6 (01:05:14):
That was back in twenty and sixteen, correct, at the
time that he started to act kind of weird, yes, sir.
Also around that time, there were sixty minutes twenty twenty
in Dateline specials right, Yes, sir. And there was also
this bump, right, yes, sir. And after Katie's arrest, there

(01:05:38):
was even more suggestion that Charlie somehow had some role
in this, right, yes, sir. By the way, you continue
to be friends with him after.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
That, right, yes, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
I mean, I know there's a difference in murder and
hit and run and war and arrests and whatever else
he's been arrested for, but he wasn't. He was suspected
of being involved at a.

Speaker 12 (01:06:15):
Murder for hire.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
I'm sure he was quite convincing that he had nothing
to do with it. So thank you. My father's alibi.
Carrie Englert, that's who it is. She's a native of
or she lives in a native of Tallahassee. Yeah, she's
a native of Tallahassee. She's a former Olympic gymnast. Here,

(01:06:42):
let me show you some of her Yeah, I love
her style.

Speaker 13 (01:06:51):
There she is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Former Olympic gymnasts, just stopping in on a murder trial
in Tallahassee. Wow. I wonder what her connection to this
case is, or she was just interested? Does anyone know?

Speaker 13 (01:07:08):
Now?

Speaker 6 (01:07:09):
Isn't it true that you stole from Charlie?

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
No, not at all.

Speaker 6 (01:07:14):
It's not true that you took checks that were supposed
to be made out to the business and took them
for yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
That's alleged in a lawsuit that's been dismissed.

Speaker 6 (01:07:22):
So was that lawsuit dismissed because Charlie Eagleson got arrested
in this case?

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
I never had an attorney because I wasn't worried about it.

Speaker 6 (01:07:29):
When was it dismissed after his arrest in this case
or before.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
I found out last week? So I don't know. I
don't care.

Speaker 6 (01:07:35):
Do you think it was Do you think it was
dismissed after he was arrested in this case.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
That's speculation of your part. I had no idea. I
didn't think about it, didn't losing sleep over.

Speaker 6 (01:07:44):
It was a lawsuit for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
About two million dollars, but I don't have that anyway,
so I didn't worry about it.

Speaker 6 (01:07:56):
Before you filed that lawsuit.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
He demanded that you pay him, right, I guess that's
what he says.

Speaker 6 (01:08:04):
Well, did he text you and demand repayment?

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
Yeah, but maybe he'd get the judge like even if
he didn't have it, maybe he'd pay his restitution, just
like Donna's lawyer who was formerly a judge. Does everybody
know of talking about who had when she was a judge,

(01:08:28):
she had her client, her not client, her woman in
front of her, who's guilty? Pay restitution? And the tune
was like that fifteen thousand dollars my memory of it,
jack Jackie, and she had had to pay back a
dollar a month. So maybe Ryan could have paid back

(01:08:50):
two million dollars a dollar a month if he got
a judge like Jackie Fulford. You definitely not have to worry.
Then Oh wow, it's really storming here, power goes out.
That's where I am. If all of a sudden, this
whole episode just drops out out of the sky, that's

(01:09:10):
where I am.

Speaker 6 (01:09:11):
He said he was going to start taking what you
owed him out of your paychecks. Do you recall that?

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:09:17):
And you didn't like that, so you threat So you
threatened if you tried to recover any of the stolen
money for you, you would go to law enforcement and
tell him, tell them that you weren't that he was
involved in Professor Martell's murder.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
I don't know if that's what I said. Verbad him
at law?

Speaker 6 (01:09:34):
Well, let's see I can refresh him.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
Yeah, mm hm hm oh.

Speaker 6 (01:10:10):
Do you recall saying to doctor Charlie Edelson, I don't
owe you ship. I'll be on the phone with the
FBI today. Get your affairs in order before prison.

Speaker 7 (01:10:22):
Punk.

Speaker 6 (01:10:23):
You're gonna rot in jail, you mom fag? Do you
recall saying that?

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
I mean, if you're reading it, then I did you open.

Speaker 6 (01:10:31):
Your mouth and I will open mind. Watch, motherfucker. You're
a miserable Jew and you're gonna get what you deserve.
Do you recall saying that, then I said it. I
dare you to threaten me again. I'll be on the
phone with the FBI before you blink, you murderer. Do

(01:10:51):
you remember saying that, ye get fucked. I'm gonna get
you in jail. Do you remember saying that?

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
I guess if it's in there?

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Really? So these are horrible texts that you don't want
brought up in court. Certainly miserable jew, I'm gonna get
you in jail if it were only his testimony, not
guilty verdict. Sure, but there's a whole lot of consistent
evidence and consistent including consistent testimony that all goes against Charlie.

(01:11:36):
But like I said, I think that proves my point
that he knows a whole lot more. Open your mouth
and you know, I'll open mind. So I think that
they're holding a lot of secrets about each other, these guys.
But Charlie Edelsen goes on and on and on and on.
How could Georgia Kapelman call Ryan Fitzpatrick his best friend

(01:11:59):
in two thousand five, wasn't his best friend? I don't
know what he thinks that she's going to have a
bulletin board with Charlie Adelson's best friends in twenty fourteen
in order of besties, and Ryan Fitzpatrick at the top.
They were, he says, he yardly new him in twenty fourteen,

(01:12:26):
certainly knew him enough to give some crucial evidence against him.

Speaker 6 (01:12:33):
You ever heard of a website on Facebook called True
Crimes Blog, True Crimes Case, the Dan Markel Case. Let's
discuss you ever heard of that? Yes, you're just posting
pictures of Charlie on that website this week? Right, I
don't know. You want me to show you them?

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
What difference does it make? What is it to do
with anything?

Speaker 6 (01:12:59):
Yeah? I approach? Does this refresh your recollection of a
picture you posted Charlie on that website just days ago?
You say you have nothing to gain from this case
and you don't really care and you don't want to
be here, right right? Just on Tuesday, do you recall

(01:13:20):
writing to someone? I want to propose a wager. Let's
see who gets involved? The over and under on life
plus laugh out loud? Yeah, yeah, you post on there
that you were going to help get this man a
life imprisonment, right, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
Know that it's suggested that I was helping him do anything.
I'll just speaking my opinion, which that's free speech, and
that's what all the other idiots on that thing do
as well.

Speaker 6 (01:13:45):
So I want to propose a wager over under on
life plus. That's what you said. Yeah, no further questions.

Speaker 16 (01:14:00):
Yeah, sorry from mister ralsh Baum.

Speaker 9 (01:14:11):
As to the post on the social media side, you
may step down. Please call your next wednows.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Yeah, so not quite so damning when when you know,
when Georgia Kapelman prepares the jury that he said a
lot of mean things. But if it negates this whole testimony,
if that cross negates his whole testimony, so be it

(01:14:46):
just there's a lot more evidence against him. Uh, there's
Maybe we'll look at jun I don't know, it's awfully late.
How are you guys feeling. Should we look at Juna Jinda?
Should we check in on the or should we call
it a day? Let's see the Adolson family keep their
mouth shut. We have ten percent of the people think

(01:15:09):
that Adolson family kept their mouth shut. That's a striking
amount higher than I thought it would be. And ten
percent said no. Yeah, I can see why the ten
percent would say, I guess they didn't fully talk too
explicitly and say I did it or they did talk

(01:15:33):
around it? Sure for June, Okay, no June, Debbie, Gibbie
one June the Dingling. All right, we'll watch a little
of June. How about that. We'll do a compromise. Sorry, Debbie,
you need to hear June. I think they're good together,

(01:15:53):
those two. All right, June, I'm Shinda. Let me see
if I can speed her up, because she is she
comes off as not bright. Doesn't mean she's she really
see if this is I may make it even faster.

(01:16:16):
She just doesn't want it to say anything against Charlie Adelson,
and he's there giving google eyes at her. It's her testimony.
This is where Judge Everett, another judge, would have come
down hard on Charlie and said stop it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
But and then.

Speaker 20 (01:16:35):
You swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give
will be the truth. You may take your seat, stay your.

Speaker 4 (01:16:47):
Name, and spell your name.

Speaker 13 (01:16:49):
Hi.

Speaker 21 (01:16:49):
I'm Juan, I'm Chinda. It's j U ny first name,
last name, U, M A C H I N d A.

Speaker 4 (01:16:56):
You don't have to. I don't think you're gonna have
to leave that close to okay, But you know, if
we it, Harry. Where do you live, ma'am?

Speaker 7 (01:17:03):
I'm in South Florida.

Speaker 4 (01:17:05):
Do you know Charlie Adelson?

Speaker 7 (01:17:07):
I'm sorry, it was my alarm to come here down here?

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
Is it? Silence?

Speaker 8 (01:17:13):
C Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:17:14):
Okay, wait, let me just check if it's I'm so sorry,
I don't want it, so snooze.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Okay, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:17:24):
Do you know Charlie Aielson? I do? How do you
know him?

Speaker 7 (01:17:27):
He's my ex boyfriend.

Speaker 4 (01:17:28):
Do you see him here in the courtroom? I do?
Could you please point him out and describe what he's wearing.

Speaker 7 (01:17:33):
He's the middle one there with the navy blue suit.

Speaker 4 (01:17:36):
On the record of like the witness has identified the defendant.
When did you date mister Adelson?

Speaker 21 (01:17:45):
We initially met in I think it was like February
or so, and then February of what year, twenty fifteen? Okay,
And we didn't speak for about eight months. We just
had like a brief meeting, and then in October we
have fished.

Speaker 7 (01:18:00):
We started dating.

Speaker 4 (01:18:00):
October twenty fifteen, Yes, And how long did you date him?

Speaker 9 (01:18:04):
For?

Speaker 7 (01:18:05):
Roughly two and a half years, like officially?

Speaker 4 (01:18:08):
Okay? Does June of twenty seventeen sound like the end
correct end of your relationship officially, yes, all right, And
did you continue to talk to mister Ailson after the breakup?
We did. When was the last time you spoke to
mister Alson?

Speaker 21 (01:18:23):
A day or so before his arrest, we were playing
phone tag and I was supposed to see him. We
didn't see each other for a long time, but I
was supposed to see him. I didn't get to and
then I wrote him back, I saw a message from him,
and then the next day he was taken away.

Speaker 4 (01:18:39):
All right. So when that's obviously significantly after the official breakoup.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Oh, so you can tell that just the choice of language.
He was taken away, he was arrested, he was arrested
for murder. He's taken away from me. He was ripped, ripped,
ripped out of my arms until she will testify that
she's still in love with them.

Speaker 7 (01:19:05):
This was in April last twenty and twenty two.

Speaker 4 (01:19:07):
What was the nature of your relationship after the official
break up? Were you kind of on again off again
or just casually seeing each other when you were both single,
or what was the deal there?

Speaker 21 (01:19:17):
I mean, it was a lot of years that went
by after our official relationship, so there were like different
periods of times where we were seeing each other and
then casual, but we always stayed in.

Speaker 7 (01:19:29):
Touch throughout the years.

Speaker 4 (01:19:30):
So all right? And do you still have feelings for
mister Adelson as we sit here today?

Speaker 21 (01:19:39):
So he's my last serious boyfriend, so I would say
yes that it's there's something still there. I care about him,
but obviously I haven't seen him and God knows how long.

Speaker 4 (01:19:49):
All right? And do you recall being interviewed by the
Tallhasee Police Department in reference to this case on July
twenty four, twenty eighteen. I do, Okay. At that time
when you were interviewed, it had been about two weeks
since you had talked to him. Does that ring a bell?

Speaker 7 (01:20:08):
Something like that?

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
Okay, a little of Charlie's into a dialogue. Oh I
could be with June and Jinda right now, God ift
it all up. You can just see let's see that again.
Looks like it. I must He's having a little pity
party there right after she says she still has feelings
for him?

Speaker 7 (01:20:28):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:20:29):
And do you recall being interviewed by the Tallahassee Police
Department in reference to this case on July twenty fourth,
twenty eighteen. I do, okay. And back at that time
when you were interviewed, it had been about two weeks
since you had talked to him.

Speaker 7 (01:20:45):
Does that ring a bell something like that?

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:20:49):
And you had talked him prior to that interview around
your birthday? Is that right on the phone?

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
And when was your When is your birthday?

Speaker 7 (01:20:56):
June twenty eight?

Speaker 4 (01:20:58):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:21:00):
So is that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:03):
That was prior to obviously prior to his arrest, but
just a few months before the trial of Catherine Magbanua.
Did you talk to him then as well? I'm not sure.

Speaker 7 (01:21:12):
I don't recall when her trial was. I know she
had a red trial, so.

Speaker 4 (01:21:15):
Okay, I don't know the date specifically, okay, But in
one of those trials, didn't you talk testify that you
had spoken to him just the night before that trial?

Speaker 7 (01:21:25):
Right, I mean we were still talking?

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
So yes, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:21:27):
Because I'm just kind of trying to establish in reference
to the important dates of this case, you seem to
have had some communication with him pretty close in time
to those important dates. Would you agree with that? Yes,

(01:21:52):
But you haven't had any contact with him in reference
to what you're going to say here today.

Speaker 7 (01:21:56):
No, not since he got arrested. I haven't heard from him.

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
Were you dating him when what we're calling the bump
occurred back on April nineteenth of twenty sixteen? Yes, And
are you familiar with what we mean when we say
the bump?

Speaker 7 (01:22:11):
Is that the money extortion thing from the.

Speaker 4 (01:22:13):
Thing when Donna Ailsen was a fresh fine undercover officer. Okay,
So how far into your relationship with him were you
at the time that that occurred? And that's again, April
nineteenth of twenty sixteen.

Speaker 7 (01:22:28):
About a year roughly, I would say, all right, but.

Speaker 4 (01:22:31):
You began dating officially.

Speaker 7 (01:22:34):
Well from October, so that's not a year, it's more
like six months.

Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
Yeah, what was the status of your relationship or can
you kind of describe for us what your relationship was
at that time April of twenty sixteen?

Speaker 7 (01:22:48):
Oh sorry, I'm trying to think of the dates again.
So the bump was twenty sixteen, you said, any.

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
Yes, ma'am. So this would be about six months into
your relationship that were you seeing each other? Seriously, we're
you seing a lot of each other?

Speaker 7 (01:23:00):
Tell us about every day?

Speaker 8 (01:23:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:23:02):
Every day?

Speaker 13 (01:23:02):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:23:02):
And have you previously described the relationship at that time
as a fairy tale? Back then yes, okay, perfect, yes,
inseparable yes, okay. So the two of you were together
quite a lot during that time.

Speaker 7 (01:23:16):
Frame, yeah, I basically lived there, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:23:18):
And so you spent most of the time that you
were together over at his place?

Speaker 13 (01:23:22):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:23:22):
And is that the place on Will Harbor?

Speaker 9 (01:23:24):
It is?

Speaker 4 (01:23:28):
And did the relationship change at some let me before
we leave that when the bump occurred on April nineteenth,
twenty sixteen, did he, mister Adelson, tell you about the bump?

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
All right, So at some point did the relationship change
around this time frame April twenty sixteen.

Speaker 21 (01:23:45):
I can't say exactly like when it changed, because we've
had a lot of ups and pounds, but.

Speaker 7 (01:23:52):
I mean it did change, so I don't know when exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
It was, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:23:55):
I want to draw your attention specifically to the time
frame between April and May of twenty sixteen. Are you
able to tell the jury about some changes you observed
in mister Abelson's behavior during that time frame?

Speaker 7 (01:24:08):
I don't know, like if it was in that time
frame exactly, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:24:13):
And do you recall giving a law enforcement interview in
this case? I do, okay, And that was done on
July twenty fourth of twenty eighteen, right, would your memory
have been better back then on these issues as far
as the dates?

Speaker 7 (01:24:26):
That doesn't say what date?

Speaker 21 (01:24:28):
Like, they didn't ask me specifically when how he was
acting when, so I don't know exactly what they meant,
like how he was acting?

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
What time?

Speaker 4 (01:24:36):
Okay, So you didn't tell them that he began to
freak out around that time and act sneaky and go
places without telling you where.

Speaker 21 (01:24:52):
I said that, I just don't know at that specific
time frame if that was referring to that right now,
I really have no idea at Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:25:03):
At some point did a reporter approach you in mister
Adelson's driveway? They did, all right? And was that the
first that you learned about this murder? Yes? So, mister
Aidilson had never even told you during your serious relationship
with him, that his brother in law had been murdered.

Speaker 7 (01:25:20):
He mentioned that he'd been murdered, but there were no details.
It was just he said, we don't know who did it,
and this is what happened.

Speaker 4 (01:25:27):
So okay, So do you know when this reporter approached you,
like what time or was it approximately around June seventeenth
of twenty sixteen. Does that sound right?

Speaker 21 (01:25:40):
It was right after, like I think, a political holiday,
because I had a band aid on my arm from
or burn that we went to a barbecue and it
was embarrassing that they took a photo of me with it.
So I remember that that I still had that band
aid on my arm. So it might have been around
May or something, right, maybe Memorial.

Speaker 4 (01:25:59):
I was sure it was.

Speaker 21 (01:26:01):
Well, there's a picture like the reporter has on the internet,
so whenever that article came.

Speaker 7 (01:26:07):
Out, it would be done.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
So she's talking about this article came in the Daily Mail.
Girlfriend defends the ex brother in law of FSU professor
shot dead in his driveway, who cops says connected to
execution style murder for hire. Dan Mark Hall, forty one

(01:26:30):
so young was shot dead in the driveway of Florida
home in twenty fourteen and the wealthy Fort Lauderderoll family.
It was June seventeenth that was published the wealthy Fort
Lauderdale family police suspect of having a motive related to
the execution style killing of a highly respected Florida State

(01:26:53):
University law professor. Had nothing to do with the murder.
According to the living girlfriend of a family member June
and Chindi comments come as a Leon County grand jury
decides whether to issue two career criminals with first degree
murder indictments for the July twenty fourteen murder of Dan Markel.
The two suspected killers are Secreto Garcia, who has been

(01:27:15):
arrested in connection to the murder, and Luis Rivera, who
is already behind bars on other charges waiting to be
served and arrest warrant. Umcinda twenty seven, a Thailand born
credit union worker who started dating playboy Periodontis Charlie Charles
Adelson eight months ago, tells Daily Mail Online in an

(01:27:39):
exclusive interview she doesn't believe the theory that Adelson or
other family members paid the two to carry out the
killing of Markel. Court documents point to Donal Donna Adelson,
the mother of Markel's ex wife Wendy Adelson, as well
as Wendy's brother Charles, as being connected to the murder plot.

(01:28:00):
So there they are. There's the bandage on her arm.
But there's another interesting if you go to the gallery here,
there's the bandage on her arm that she was embarrassed about.
It's such a silly thing to be embarrassed about so
Sigfredo Luis Sigrido Garcia another picture of him. Here's a

(01:28:21):
picture of Charles Charlie Adelson shutting the door to his
car with his cell phone in his hand and scrubs.
Police claim Adelson did not like Markel. And then there's
Wendy with her two kids with that famous picture that

(01:28:43):
Jeffrey la cass talks about being too good looking, that
that was put up right before the murder was set
to be done. Wendy Edelson changed her Facebook profile to that.
There's Sigfredo garcian court and scrubs Dan Markel with his

(01:29:04):
two kids faces whacked out as home. I guess the
Adelson Institute. I assume that's what that is. And then
there's all these philanthropy pictures. One has to do with
fishing Weekly Fishermen article with I guess Charlie Adelson catching

(01:29:27):
a fish, and then also some kind of charity. Someone
knows what that's about. Let me know. I've never seen
that before.

Speaker 13 (01:29:37):
So that is.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
What she's talking about. The article.

Speaker 7 (01:29:56):
An article, Yes, so there's the band aid on my
arm as you can see, all right, And what article?

Speaker 4 (01:30:04):
What is the date of that article?

Speaker 7 (01:30:07):
That says June seventeenth. So when is Memorial Day?

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
May?

Speaker 7 (01:30:12):
Yes, twenty sixteen, okay, so can.

Speaker 4 (01:30:16):
We agree it was approximately June of twenty sixteen that
you got approached.

Speaker 21 (01:30:21):
I believe it was May, but I think they published
the article in June. But yes, around June made June.

Speaker 4 (01:30:27):
I thought they. I thought the reporter had the article
with them when they approached you.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
Is that not the case?

Speaker 21 (01:30:34):
No, you mean I mean the photo like he made
that article and posted it like from the scratching Yeah,
from I guess our candid shot.

Speaker 4 (01:30:42):
All right, So maybe you were approached in May and
then the article came out in June.

Speaker 7 (01:30:46):
I believe that's correct, okay, And that was when.

Speaker 4 (01:30:48):
That reporter approached you. That was when you found out
that there was this whole backstory to this murder that
may involve Charlie.

Speaker 21 (01:30:56):
I actually didn't find out at that moment. They they
like ran up to me asking if I'm Katherine, and
I had no idea who that was. So I didn't
even know who they were.

Speaker 4 (01:31:06):
How come you didn't know who Katherine mcganaa was not
at all?

Speaker 9 (01:31:09):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:31:10):
So is that the first did you eventually find out
who she was? After you learned that name from the reporter.

Speaker 7 (01:31:15):
Yes, eventually who was she?

Speaker 21 (01:31:18):
She was Charlie's x's girlfriend, and she also worked for
another friend of mine at the front desk.

Speaker 7 (01:31:24):
And who's that Jerry Obed?

Speaker 4 (01:31:27):
All right? And what was she working for Jerry Obed
At the time that you learned about her, I guess
learned of her existence.

Speaker 21 (01:31:37):
No, so I guess I met her in the front
of Jerry's place once briefly, and then when I heard
of her, my mind went back to that day.

Speaker 7 (01:31:46):
But I had no idea like her name or even
back then.

Speaker 4 (01:31:49):
All right, So you were confused in May of twenty
sixteen for her by a reporter, Yes, and then you learned, oh,
she was an ex girlfriend of Charlie Edelson, right, eventually, yeah, okay,
And then subsequent to that you realized, oh, that's the
girl that used to work for Jerryovid.

Speaker 7 (01:32:09):
Yes, okay with you all right?

Speaker 4 (01:32:11):
Once you found out about this sort of backstory to
this homicide and investigation, did the defendant, mister Adelson, tell
you anything about how to handle the police if you
were to be approached by the police.

Speaker 21 (01:32:24):
He said, if anyone came knocking on the door asking questions,
I don't know anything, and at that time I really
didn't know anything.

Speaker 4 (01:32:30):
Still, so he told you not to talk to the police.

Speaker 21 (01:32:33):
Right because I think he had to go away that
weekend or week and I was at the house by myself, and.

Speaker 4 (01:32:39):
Had he been acting strangely for weeks before that article
was published, and again that article was published June seventeenth,
twenty sixteen, I believe, so I tell us what acting
strangely means.

Speaker 21 (01:32:54):
I think I said it in my interview that he
would kind of run off to places without really an explanation.

Speaker 7 (01:33:00):
We kind of had a routine going.

Speaker 21 (01:33:02):
We would work, go to the gym, and then every
night usually see each other at a certain time. But
it was getting to the point where like he was
running lead or things were happening, and I didn't really
know the reason. And also I think he was just
I just felt like something was different in our relationship.

Speaker 4 (01:33:22):
And did you notice that he had begun communicating with
Katherine Macabanawa around that time?

Speaker 7 (01:33:30):
Around sorry, the time which.

Speaker 4 (01:33:31):
The two weeks prior to the publication of that article,
which was published on June seventeenth, twenty sixteen.

Speaker 21 (01:33:38):
Two weeks before that, I can't remember exactly when I
found out about Katherine mcbanuel, Like, I know it was
after May, So if it was in that two week
period before the article came out, then.

Speaker 4 (01:33:53):
Did you say on in your interview with law enforcement
that in that timeframe you saw him going back and
forth Katie on the calls, like and I said, oh,
why do you guys talk so much? And also you
were just commenting about the calls being at odd hours
and how you know he's not normally up that early,
and that's when you saw the call activity on his phone.

(01:34:14):
Do you remember telling law enforcement.

Speaker 21 (01:34:16):
That I remember saying I saw her name come up
or something at some point in time.

Speaker 7 (01:34:21):
Again, I don't know if that is the same time
around that time.

Speaker 21 (01:34:25):
And also the odd hours thing I was referring to
another girl I think that lives in Philippines.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
Okay, right, that's like that Alyssa or something from the Philippines.
She talks to the police about.

Speaker 4 (01:34:39):
Your attention to page seventy two.

Speaker 7 (01:34:43):
I don't have a mind or I'm going to bring
you one.

Speaker 4 (01:34:46):
Page seventy two, lines seven through twenty two on your interview.

Speaker 8 (01:34:51):
This is a nie.

Speaker 4 (01:34:56):
Around that, but this is seventy two here you'll read
to yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
I mean, she's a state witness, but she's really trying
to be a defensive witness, trying everything she can to
minimize or or retract recant any damning statement she made
against Charlie Edo. So this is why Donna, Donna loves it.
She was so adorable, adorable on the stand. You guys

(01:35:27):
heard her talk about her and they didn't know where
she was. They had to put out a missing persons
for they didn't know adorable. I mean they like her
because she's not a strong witness against them. Ryan Fitzpatrick

(01:35:57):
may have a awful past, may have a it didn't
come up, but I had terrible text messages that didn't
reflect well on his character. But he was certain about
his pretty certain about his testimony. June not so.

Speaker 4 (01:36:34):
Okay. So so let me ask a question. Are you
still maintaining you're referencing another woman in that comment or
were you talking about Katherine mcmana.

Speaker 21 (01:36:44):
So in that comment, I actually was referring to when
I found out the phone records of Catherine and Charlie,
like speaking in the morning, when they showed how often
they would speak on the phone.

Speaker 4 (01:36:56):
All right, thank you did mister Adelson ever express any
interesting or curiosity to you about who had killed his
brother in law.

Speaker 21 (01:37:07):
He I mean, yeah, he just said he didn't know
who did it, and it was just like an unsolved,
blank mystery.

Speaker 4 (01:37:14):
I'm going to ask you to look at page seventy
I'm sorry, thirty four, thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
Four, that same mini transcript in front of you, and
if you'll review June the answer is no, it's exactly
what Robert adel said. He's going to come in and
testify against data if he does or he said to
could not. There's a lot of people who show up
on these witness lists, but there's certainly been a lot
of legal paperwork about Robert Adelson's testimony in time put

(01:37:48):
in to deposing him. Just like Ryan Fitzpatrick, I'm just
so curious what they're looking I mean, what exactly they're
looking for. I guess they're looking for any story about
some kind of ex story or details about the relationship
between Katie and Charlie that they can try to twist

(01:38:11):
and make it look like she was extorting him. I
would think in that deposition happening tomorrow at nine.

Speaker 4 (01:38:18):
I was ten through fifteen. Just let me know when
you're done.

Speaker 7 (01:38:30):
Ten through fifteen, Yes, ma'am, so, yes, I see it.

Speaker 4 (01:38:48):
And didn't you tell the tell law enforcement back when
this interview was conducted, quote, you know, if it wasn't him,
He never said, oh I wonder who killed Dan, or
like if it was just him, saying just like fearing
like he used to have like closed by his bed
in case they came to get him and stuff, like
in the middle of the night. He was just very
scared that they would come and take him. Is that
what you said, so, I was sam, Is that what

(01:39:10):
you said?

Speaker 7 (01:39:12):
Well, no, I didn't say that. Okay, so did he
never said he wondered?

Speaker 4 (01:39:17):
You've answered the question answer, so the transcript is incorrect.
Question is the transcript incorrect?

Speaker 7 (01:39:33):
That's yes, your question or you mean in general the
question I asked you. I to your question.

Speaker 4 (01:39:39):
Now I'm going to request that we not go to sidebar.
I have another question to ask the witness. Did mister
Adelson ever express any sympathy regarding the death of Dan
Markel in your presence?

Speaker 7 (01:39:55):
I mean yes.

Speaker 4 (01:39:57):
Turn your attention to page eighty four of the transcript,
lines twenty three and twenty four twenty page eighty four,
lines twenty three and twenty four.

Speaker 7 (01:40:18):
I'm sorry, do you mean section eighty four?

Speaker 4 (01:40:22):
No, ma'am, it's page eighty four. I think I've got
the lines wrong. Let me just take a look. Yes, okay,
I was correct twenty three and twenty four, but you
might need to back up a little for context. Didn't
you tell law enforcement? That's what was weird to me.
I'm always like, well, if you didn't do it, then
who do you think did it?

Speaker 7 (01:40:40):
Or something?

Speaker 4 (01:40:40):
And he wouldn't ever like show any sympathy or anything.

Speaker 7 (01:40:45):
I don't even see page eighty four.

Speaker 4 (01:40:48):
Thank you. What about Let's go back to Katherine Magbanawa.
Did you ever actually meet her or just knew that
she worked at Obed's office.

Speaker 21 (01:40:58):
I mean she'd greeted me when I walked in the
or there, so I met her as like a somebody
walking in really.

Speaker 4 (01:41:04):
Quickly, okay, but never hung out with her socially.

Speaker 7 (01:41:06):
Or no, I don't even think I spoke to her, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:41:10):
Was Katherine mag Banoa if you know the girlfriend that
was right before you with Charlie? I'm sorry, what was
she the girlfriend that preceded you or was right before you?

Speaker 7 (01:41:21):
No, I didn't even know about her, there was another
girl before me.

Speaker 4 (01:41:25):
Who was the girl that was right before you.

Speaker 19 (01:41:27):
That I know of?

Speaker 7 (01:41:28):
It was Whitney Kick.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
How long did he date Whitney Kick?

Speaker 21 (01:41:34):
So initially when I met Charlie in February. I don't
know if it was February around then he was with
Whitney at that time, so I think you broke up
with her a little before we got together.

Speaker 4 (01:41:45):
So was there anybody else between Catherine mag Banwa and
you other than Whitney Kick? To your knowledge, there was? Okay?
Who was that?

Speaker 7 (01:41:56):
Someone named Jessica?

Speaker 3 (01:41:57):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:41:59):
Did you ever know of Catherine Magbanua to be employed
working for Charlie Aielsen? No, during the time frame of
the bump, So the bump in April, but prior to
miss mcmanawa's arrested in October? Was the defendant picking up

(01:42:22):
communication with Katherine mcbanwah? Did you notice that he was
communicating with her more?

Speaker 7 (01:42:27):
I don't know if it was that time frame, Like
I said, during this time.

Speaker 4 (01:42:31):
Frame that I'm talking about, did the defendant express concerns
to you that his phone was being tapped?

Speaker 7 (01:42:38):
I mean, it was probably during that time frame, but
he did say that at.

Speaker 21 (01:42:41):
Some point.

Speaker 4 (01:42:44):
Were you still dating the defendant at the time that
Catherine Macbanowa was arrested on October first of twenty sixteen. Yes,
What was the defendant's behavior like after her arrest?

Speaker 7 (01:42:54):
I mean I think around that time the media got
ahold of the story, so there was.

Speaker 4 (01:42:59):
That's that's not my question. What was the defendant's behavior
like after Kaptain and Aagvana was arrest.

Speaker 21 (01:43:05):
Well, I guess his behavior was just someone that's being
convicted of murder or not convicted accused of murder.

Speaker 4 (01:43:11):
I'm all right. Was he quote very scary to be around?

Speaker 7 (01:43:19):
I mean I might have said that.

Speaker 4 (01:43:21):
You might have said that, or you did say that.

Speaker 7 (01:43:22):
I think I did say that because we had a fight,
so I was afraid one time.

Speaker 4 (01:43:27):
Was he quote just like angry and different?

Speaker 7 (01:43:32):
I guess he was.

Speaker 4 (01:43:33):
Was he violent, agitated and short fused during that time frame?
I believe so. Did he have trouble sleeping or being alone?
Didn't want to be home? Do you recall saying that, Yes,
when the case came up, did everything just tick him off?

Speaker 7 (01:43:52):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:43:52):
Did he start getting really red and screaming and take
random walks like just acting like a crazy person? Yes,
it's did he get a second phone around this time frame,
and possibly even a third phone.

Speaker 7 (01:44:07):
I saw one other phone. I don't know about a third.

Speaker 4 (01:44:10):
So did he start communicating you with you via the
WhatsApp application? He did?

Speaker 21 (01:44:17):
He started up because he was also out of the
country once, so we started using it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:21):
Then did he did he sleep with a gun at night?
And in that timeframe specifically?

Speaker 7 (01:44:32):
So when you say sleep, do you mean like physically
in the bed or you tell me.

Speaker 21 (01:44:37):
He had guns because he has had his his carry license,
so he had a few at different places, so in
his bedroom.

Speaker 4 (01:44:46):
But specifically in this timeframe, did he change his habits
and reference to the gun. No, so he did, I know, Okay,
So he didn't begin sleeping with a gun under his
pillow or near his bed.

Speaker 7 (01:44:55):
Where he hadn't before, not sleeping with it like in
the room.

Speaker 4 (01:45:01):
Was he super stressed and very affected by the arrest
of Katherine mcmanin, Yes, but not super stressed and very
affected from what you observed by the death of Daniel Markel.

Speaker 7 (01:45:15):
Was he I have no idea about that.

Speaker 4 (01:45:18):
Well, you said he wasn't. Where is that in the
interview that we just reviewed. I mean what he said.

Speaker 2 (01:45:32):
This is like the pulling teeth. I'll just deny. I'm
curious if there really was no communication between Charlie, adelsaid,
if he wrote her, if he didn't write her from jail.
She said she hadn't seen him in so long. But
had she heard from him? Did he sweet talker with

(01:45:54):
some kind of letter from jail? How do you go
against all your previous I mean, just deny everything, everything forgot?
How bad this was?

Speaker 4 (01:46:10):
Eighty four? Wellns twenty three and twenty four, which we've
already done. I think you couldn't find page eighty four.

Speaker 7 (01:46:19):
No, but I think I know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:46:21):
It was I think I was.

Speaker 7 (01:46:22):
I was speculating on it. He didn't say you.

Speaker 4 (01:46:25):
Wouldn't show like any sympathy or anything.

Speaker 7 (01:46:27):
Right, I mean that was my opinion, but I have
no idea did or not?

Speaker 4 (01:46:33):
Well, the question was did he express it to you?

Speaker 2 (01:46:38):
Is tune him? Chenda on the witness list? Let's take
a look.

Speaker 22 (01:46:41):
Hold on a second, let me pull it up so
I can stay sumended witness list.

Speaker 2 (01:47:02):
Okay, yeah, she is number fifty six, near the bottom there. Yep, yep,
she's on the witness list. I hope we don't have
to go through this again. I'm hoping we won't since
Charlie Adelson make sure he's not in the build ding
which she gives this testimony.

Speaker 21 (01:47:24):
Okay, I think his actions did, but he didn't physically,
like verbally say it.

Speaker 4 (01:47:34):
His actions expressed grief over the death of Dan Markel.
What were those actions?

Speaker 7 (01:47:40):
Well, I mean, just somebody concerned, upset over this tragedy
and everything.

Speaker 4 (01:47:46):
But that's the opposite of what you told law enforcement
in your law enforcement Well, that was like a long
time ago. So has your memory and has your memory
improved since twenty eighteen regarding what this incident and Charles
Adelson's lack of remorse over the death his brother in law.

Speaker 21 (01:48:01):
So after that, he, I mean, after whatever I said,
obviously it's been a long a lot of years.

Speaker 7 (01:48:07):
So he probably expressed sympathy after.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
I said that.

Speaker 4 (01:48:11):
All right, what about his mother, Dona Nitelson? Did you
know her?

Speaker 11 (01:48:15):
He probably expressed he probably expressed sympathy, like you know,
maybe when I wasn't around, he maybe and maybe then
he got like really curious about who you know who
made Dan marcuco bye bye? He just al the bitimnizing

(01:48:38):
language and the halted language and oh, oh, yeah, she
might be reminded.

Speaker 2 (01:48:49):
This is why we need to prosecute perjury more often.
I mean, she could just I mean, guess she could
just argue and say she had a bad memory. But
it's not that she's just saying she doesn't remember. She's
saying she, in fact, that the transcript is wrong, that
she remembers the exact opposite. He was probably felt really

(01:49:10):
sad when she wasn't around.

Speaker 4 (01:49:13):
It together during this time frame where the bump was occurring.

Speaker 7 (01:49:16):
After the bump occurred, I think she was also stressed out.

Speaker 4 (01:49:22):
Did you observe her to be crying or appear as
if she had been crying?

Speaker 7 (01:49:28):
I've seen her like that before.

Speaker 4 (01:49:30):
Yes, did she tell you she was on painkillers for stress?

Speaker 7 (01:49:35):
She may have, I'm not sure.

Speaker 4 (01:49:39):
Did you notice that?

Speaker 2 (01:49:40):
That's interesting? So do you guys think she was on
painkillers when she Do you think she had to withdraw?
I mean, would she own a cocktail of look like
xanax to me when she got arrested Donna? But do
you think she was still on those painkillers? She must
have had a nat nasty withdrawal. She was, she continued

(01:50:04):
it for years and years and years. I don't know
who was writing her the prescriptions. Charlie Adelson seemed to
have no problem writing people prescriptions. I don't know about it.
People in this family. He certainly wrote them for Katie
when she asked.

Speaker 4 (01:50:18):
Donna Adelson was really involved with her grandchildren. I believe
she was. And was that Wendy's kids?

Speaker 7 (01:50:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:50:26):
Specifically, did Donna Ailson ever express any concerns to you
about who killed Dan Markel? M?

Speaker 18 (01:50:39):
Hmmm?

Speaker 2 (01:50:44):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:50:46):
Did you say to law enforcement that the Adelson's weren't
ever curious like who really killed him? They weren't upset
about it? It seemed like did you say that? I
might have said it page fifty lines nineteen through twenty three.

Speaker 7 (01:51:19):
Okay, So what were you asking? I'm sorry?

Speaker 4 (01:51:21):
Did you say quote like they weren't ever curious like
who really killed him? They weren't upset about it? It
seemed like.

Speaker 7 (01:51:29):
I did, and I was speculating.

Speaker 4 (01:51:30):
Again, So did the defendant ever say anything about something
he did coming back to him? Where is that? Why
don't you answer the question?

Speaker 2 (01:51:41):
First?

Speaker 4 (01:51:41):
Wait?

Speaker 7 (01:51:41):
What was you said something coming back to him?

Speaker 4 (01:51:43):
What do you yes, ma'am? I mean, did the defendant
ever tell you about something bad? He did coming back
to him.

Speaker 7 (01:51:50):
I think he was referring to a horoscope.

Speaker 4 (01:51:52):
Yes, tell us about that please.

Speaker 16 (01:51:55):
From what I.

Speaker 21 (01:51:56):
Recall, I think we were just reading horoscopes and his
I don't even remember.

Speaker 7 (01:52:00):
That's fine, I have to look it up again.

Speaker 4 (01:52:01):
But page one o nine Did you review this transcript
this morning before your testimony today?

Speaker 7 (01:52:07):
I reviewed it beforehand in the email that you said. So,
which line was it?

Speaker 4 (01:52:22):
Page eighty? I'm sorry? This is page one oh nine,
line nine through page one ten, line one, And the
question is did you say that the horoscope was something
about something you did in the past, We'll come back
and take a big toll on your life? And he said, quote,

(01:52:43):
isn't that so true? Wow, that's on point or something.

Speaker 7 (01:52:46):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:52:48):
Was this before or after the arrest of Catherine macmanwah,
I really don't remember that part. Did you ever ask
him about what happened to Dan Markel? I did?

Speaker 2 (01:53:02):
Yes.

Speaker 7 (01:53:02):
What did he tell you, Well, he told me he
was shot and didn't know who did it.

Speaker 11 (01:53:10):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:53:13):
What about Wendy Adelson? Were you ever around her during
the time that you were dating her brother? Yes? Did
she ever express any concern to you about the murder?
Of her child's father.

Speaker 7 (01:53:25):
I don't really remember too much of it.

Speaker 4 (01:53:27):
Did the topic come up at all regarding I did?

Speaker 21 (01:53:30):
A topic about her being a single mother came up,
and that's all I remember.

Speaker 4 (01:53:38):
Did she make a comment to you that things were
still hard for her even though Dan was gone?

Speaker 21 (01:53:46):
Did she make a comment you're asking, Yes, I think
it was something along the lines of that I remember,
and did.

Speaker 4 (01:53:55):
At some point Charlie Adelson tell you that he and
Wendy were actually fighting about this case.

Speaker 7 (01:54:01):
He mentioned that at some point in time, and.

Speaker 4 (01:54:04):
Was Wendy not speaking to the defendant for some period
of time because of something to do with this case?

Speaker 7 (01:54:10):
I don't know like how long the time was, but
I believe yes, she wasn't speaking.

Speaker 4 (01:54:15):
And at one point, and did you know what the
thing having to do with this case was that caused
them to not be speaking.

Speaker 7 (01:54:20):
I have no idea.

Speaker 4 (01:54:23):
During the time that you were dating Charlie Adelson, I
think you said you would stay over there at the
house in will Harbor. Was that every night or most
every night?

Speaker 7 (01:54:31):
Every night? Maybe one night like we missed, like earth
she was out of town.

Speaker 4 (01:54:35):
Then during the time that.

Speaker 2 (01:54:37):
You were Yeah, I really liked the pool. I really
liked the pool. I would like that fool too. I
would enjoy the fool too.

Speaker 4 (01:54:45):
We are over there. Did you have an opportunity to
observe large amounts of cash in his residence?

Speaker 7 (01:54:52):
I've seen cash there.

Speaker 4 (01:54:54):
All right. And are you aware of a large safe
that's there in the residence?

Speaker 7 (01:55:00):
This is safe, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:55:00):
And during the time that you were dating him, did
he have money in that say, of cash?

Speaker 7 (01:55:05):
I believe so, all right?

Speaker 4 (01:55:06):
And did he have thousands and thousands of dollars stacks
of hundreds? Did you say that?

Speaker 7 (01:55:12):
I believe at one point in time.

Speaker 4 (01:55:15):
Did you say, quote, hundreds are like dollars to him?

Speaker 2 (01:55:18):
I did say that, And this is strangely after. I
guess it's because the Latin Kings give such a reasonable
payment plan that he could still have thousands of dollars.
It is safe after the extortion.

Speaker 4 (01:55:34):
Did you say that, quote all of his money is
like stapled together the hundreds and bundles.

Speaker 7 (01:55:40):
I believe I did say that.

Speaker 4 (01:55:41):
Do you need to review the statement?

Speaker 21 (01:55:43):
No, I said I mentioned like the staples. I just
don't remember the bundle part. For those my exact words or.

Speaker 4 (01:55:49):
Page forty two, lines twenty two I'm sorry forty two
lines twenty through twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:55:57):
Gosh, she's giving Georgia a hard time. Once it's not
ex Let's make sure it's their exact or.

Speaker 4 (01:56:09):
And did you say all of his money is like stabled?
All of his money is like stabled together the hundreds
and bundles. Yes, after your breakup with mister Adelson, has
he made any large purchases on your behalf?

Speaker 13 (01:56:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:56:27):
You don't know after our breakup?

Speaker 4 (01:56:29):
Yes, like has he bought you a big ticket item,
a car, a condo?

Speaker 2 (01:56:34):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:56:37):
Has anybody tried to tell you what to say here today? No?
Has anybody. Has anybody told you, I don't know, to
forget what you said in that interview. Did anybody instruct
you to do that? It's my question? No, one moment
your own.

Speaker 2 (01:56:58):
That's interesting. Yeah, it sounds like if she kept asking
it kept well. Did anyone write you a letter from
jail reminiscing about all the good times you had together
that made you forget your past interview? Maybe that would
be the okay, I can't take anymore. I'm gonna end
the way. I don't know if there is any more.

(01:57:21):
But oh, did you say that Dan Markel was haunting
her from the grave. Yes, I don't know. I just
can't take her answers anymore. The gaslighting in the oh
Is that exactly what I said? Did I use the

(01:57:42):
word bundles? Does it stapled money?

Speaker 14 (01:57:46):
I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:57:46):
Okay, this is written in Katherine mcmanawa's case. It's to
the Honorable Judge Robert Wheeler. Dear Judge Wheeler. I knew
of Dan Markel long before I ever met him. As

(01:58:09):
a law student, I loved reading legal blogs, and Proft's blog,
which Dan founded, was one of my favorites. It was
pure chance that led me to meet the man behind
the blog. I applied to many law schools and had
no special reason to think I would end up at FSU.

(01:58:30):
But when I was invited down for an interview, Danny
was part of the crew that took me out for
a welcoming dinner. We got along well from the start.
Both of us were more extroverted than the typical academic,
and I found him very easy to talk to. The
Next day, when I presented my work to the faculty,

(01:58:51):
Danny was first out of the gate with a series
of sharp questions. When the Q and A period started,
His combination of enthusiastic friendliness with blunt intellectual debate was delightful,
and he played a significant role in convincing me that

(01:59:11):
FSU would be a great place to work. Luckily I
got the job. I ended up in the office next
door to Danny's, and from the start he would pop
his head in constantly to chat, especially when he smelled
me making coffee. Writing law reviews articles can be a
lonely task, but Dan made it his mission to counteract that,

(01:59:35):
not just for himself but for anyone else in his orbit.
During that first summer, he invited a group of us
to come sit in an empty classroom that we used
as a sort of writer's retreat. He framed this as
a progress procrastination avoidance tool. We would start a one

(01:59:58):
hour timer, turn off our Wi Fi, and commit to
getting words onto electric electronic paper until the timer ran out.
But the sessions were valuable for more than just defeating
writer's block. During break, Dan and I would chat about
everything from our personal histories to his suggestions for how

(02:00:22):
to flourish in academia. Dan and I hung out regularly
after that, both during and after work. One year into
our friendship, he left for one of his many trips
to present his work at another university. He came back
to discover that his wife, Wendy, had stripped the house, bear,

(02:00:46):
taken their sons to an unknown location, and left divorce
papers behind. To hear him tell it, her actions came
as a total shock. He was powerfully anguished to not
know where his children were or when he would get
to see them again. Now, for the first time, I

(02:01:14):
found myself trying to return the favor for all the
support Dan had given me my first year in Florida.
Sometimes that involved long conversations about what was happening. At
other times it involved doing my best to distract him
by drawing him into conversations about ideals in our field.

(02:01:38):
Sometimes it just involved drinking bourbon and watching movies together.
As Dan navigated that ugly divorce, I was constantly struck
by how much energy he still had for looking after
others' needs. He still went out of his way to
see how I was doing and to encourage my fledgling

(02:02:02):
career as a scholar. It was also during that time
that I came to appreciate what a loving and committed
father he was. One of the things that tore him
up inside was the possibility of losing time with his children,
and the bitterest aspect of the divorce proceedings came when

(02:02:23):
Wendy tried to get soul custody. We didn't have kids
of our own yet, but Danny would have us over
on his days with the boys, acting as if we
had always been part of his family. I was struck
by the intense love he showed for them, and his
automatic assumption that anyone who met them would love them

(02:02:44):
just as much I've met. I made friends with other
people at work, but Danny was by far the quickest
to ask me to read stories to his kids. Many
of my favorite memories of Dan came from his last
year of life. I remember his nervousness about the prospect
of trying to find someone new after his previous relationship

(02:03:09):
had ended so badly, and then the way he slowly
seemed to come alive again as he found a new girlfriend.
I remember his excitement about a new paper he was
working on, in which he was exploring whether the modern
reassurgence of discretionary sentencing had undermined fundamental principles of equality

(02:03:32):
and justice in the criminal process. I had a heart
attack that year, and I remember how he showered us
with company and food as I was recovering, refusing to
take no for an answer. I remember the last time
we talked, laughing over beers on a warm summer evening

(02:03:53):
as we chatted about work, kids, relationships, and many other things.
I also remember the last time I saw him alive.
I learned that Danny had been shot in the head
on a Friday evening, and I rushed with my wife
to the hospital. A friend told us that he was

(02:04:15):
not expected to recover. His head was so thoroughly wrapped
in bandages that his face was completely hidden, with just
a bit of his hair poking out from the side.
I held his hand and I wept for my friend.
I could not understand how someone could take him from

(02:04:36):
this world, from his friends, and most of all, from
his children. Danny devoted his professional life to trying to
understand the concept of justice. To the very bottom of
my heart, I hope that his killers receive that justice.

(02:05:00):
Spots would Okay, please hit the thumbs up on your
way out. Guys, subscribe to the channel, share this episode,
leave me a comment, let me know what you think
of Ryan Fitzpatrick and June and Chata and of course

(02:05:24):
the new deposing of Ryan Fitzpatrick. What do you think
they're looking for most.

Speaker 12 (02:05:33):
Most of all.

Speaker 2 (02:05:36):
Donna's lawyers. What are they searching for with that deposition?
If you'd like to support the channel, please become a
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are always in the description of this in every episode.

(02:06:00):
A great night, everyone, thanks so much for watching with Mena.

Speaker 6 (02:06:26):
What a speech you're him?

Speaker 23 (02:06:28):
You got it a murder because you wanted to raise
your daughter's kids. Tama has he just to stop on
the way to civilization in Miami is where all the
fancy people are.

Speaker 6 (02:06:47):
The TV is about five. You can't get away from that,
toutoe tato hu ho.

Speaker 18 (02:06:57):
You know the guy you pay me? Then you can't
get away from that, oh Hodna? What to stitch your head?

Speaker 23 (02:07:07):
You thought chill was just for the little people, but
now you're sore blankets with the locked up proof. Your
grandmother is locked down and you're one way ride to
feed on your blue.

Speaker 18 (02:07:33):
Gona.

Speaker 6 (02:07:36):
What to stitch your head?

Speaker 23 (02:07:38):
Your family are exiled from the social circles.

Speaker 5 (02:07:42):
You swam in.

Speaker 18 (02:07:45):
We all, no, you never made that banana break.

Speaker 23 (02:07:48):
You're offered to babysit for dance, but you'll soon be
make in license plates and thinking Baba could have been.

Speaker 18 (02:07:57):
Oh gonea. You have to swear a word of the thing.

Speaker 4 (02:08:20):
To the.

Speaker 18 (02:08:24):
Boot, tap the whole

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Breaking News! Donna Adelson Puts Charlie's Ex-Friend in the Hotseat!

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