Donna Adelson: The Evidence that Will Bury Her!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
M hmm.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Everyone yourself.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
I want to give it to you. Why why would
have paid.

Speaker 4 (00:24):
Your favorites?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Unders that I have to go with, I have to go,
I have to help.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
We also have to say, please, dont to.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Gus take your bags. You know the way out? Okay,
years old.

Speaker 5 (00:40):
You can't.

Speaker 6 (00:41):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Please, can I do?

Speaker 6 (00:44):
You can't do it?

Speaker 4 (00:45):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Please don't kind to help him? Get help.

Speaker 5 (00:49):
That's terrible.

Speaker 6 (00:56):
Something we do.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
Please?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Do you have a.

Speaker 7 (01:07):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:08):
No?

Speaker 6 (01:12):
Do you have anything value in you?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Take it off.

Speaker 8 (01:31):
You are listening to the Roberto Glass True Crime Report,
putting the true back in true crime.

Speaker 5 (01:43):
From New York City. ROBERTA. Glass is now on the record.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Okay, how is everybody hello, Marna Darkseide, Dean Eva, Doris
deb H How is everybody doing truth and justice? I
wanted to talk about a lot of new stuff in

(02:34):
Donna Aedelson's the case. So there are some things that
we gotten have to go over before we hit into
some of the evidence that was shown in Charlie's trial.
That will be pretty bad for Donna Aedelson. I think
it will bury her. We always think of this particular

(02:57):
witness as a witness that's particularly bad for but I
also think it's particularly bad for Donna. So we'll go
over their testimony today. Also, I have a new short up.
Please check it out in my short section. But so,

(03:21):
I was just over Patty's listening to her talk about
Donna Edelson's lawyer, defense lawyer Jackie Fulford, who I did
an entire episode on who was removed from the bench
or retired from the bench because they said she had
this illness or this disability, this permanent disability. Now it

(03:43):
comes out. I was pretty sure that, or I was asking.
I wouldn't say I was pretty sure. I was asking,
let's put it that way, if this disability came at
a rather convenient time for her to say that she
had to leave the bench at the time when she
was under fire for the way for her rulings, for

(04:07):
the way that she was on the bench, like you know,
insisted that everyone around her who worked for her had
to support the same candidates that she did, particularly one
in particular, and right at the time that they were

(04:29):
investigating her, she said, they the end of that investigation
was up, we're going to retire her because she has
this disability. So I was asking, was she blaming this
behavior on her disability. And what's come out now is
Stephen Webster, who was Dan Markel's lawyer, has said on

(04:52):
another YouTube channel that she faked cancer. So don really
picked a lawyer, as I suspected, who was quite like her.
When things get tough, just lie, just lie, doesn't matter that,

(05:15):
it doesn't matter what you're lying about. And it makes
me think that the allegations against her lawyers are true.
This is part of this investigation. So the allegation is
so it's what's being referred to as the investigation in
the court documents, so I'm talking about Donna Edelson's court documents.

(05:39):
They referred to this investigation that started December twenty twenty
four and went for many months. And what they are
alleging is that her lawyers let Donna Adelson use their

(06:03):
Apple watches and other devices to call Harvey Aedelson so
that she could talk to Harvey Aedelson in a way
that wouldn't be surveilled by the Leon County jail. They
couldn't surveil her if she talked on her lawyer's devices
because of course lawyer communications are privileged, meaning their private,

(06:26):
so they use that. This is the allegation so the
way they got around it, and there is a further
allegation they say the defenses is totally untrue, may be
totally untrue, or we may have witnesses that testify to
this that Donna Adelson was looking to harm witnesses in

(06:49):
this case, namely her own son, Robert Adelson. These are
the names that have been brought up, could be untrue.
This is right now, just the way this has been reported.
Catherine mcmanawa, and she is the end the snitch Dreina Bernhardt,

(07:09):
who was a woman in the Leon County jail that
got very close to Donna from her art class and
now is testifying against Donna. They just opposed her yesterday,
so let me show you and wanted to kill her mother,
Darena Bernhard's mother or harm. I don't know what you

(07:30):
mean harm. I mean I would assume that if you're
going to try to harm a witness, you're going to
try to harm them in a way in which they
can testify, so meaning they've been removed from the planet.
So that's how I take that. You can take that
however you want it. But I did want to show
you that yesterday they amended their notice of taking a deposition,

(07:58):
and I really wonder if Donna's going to was around
for these depositions. She has a right to be there,
but whether she can get permission to leave the Leon
County Oh no, she's not in Leon County anymore, leave
the jail that she's in Wacola County jail. I believe
she's in and go to these depositions. I wouldn't think so,

(08:23):
but you don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
You never know.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Please take note that the defendant, Donald Adelson, will take
the depositions by oral examination by the person below. The
deposition will take place at the Leon County Courthouse dates
Attorney's office, Durina Bernhardt yesterday August eleventh, two and there
was a court reporter there, so no video of it.

(08:51):
But the court reporter, well maybe we don't know, but
they don't make notice of a video. There was video there,
but they do make notice of a court reporter. So
that is all the news that's fit to print there.

(09:14):
So the person I think that's gonna be so getting
into the title of this episode, as always, of course,
the witness that Donna Aedelson called twitchy and red and
a liar, and that's Jeffrey Lacasse, who I think is
one of the best witnesses in this entire case. There's

(09:35):
a lot of good witnesses in this case. There's Catherine mcbanaa,
there's Luis Rivera, There's Jeffrey Lacasse, there's Pat Sandford, all
excellent witnesses. Those are the ones that come to my
mind off my top of my head. Doesn't if I'm
forgetting someone else, it doesn't mean they're not equally good witnesses.

(09:59):
Those the ones that's just come to mind now. So
I wanted to go over his testimony today. Yeah, I'm
a fan of Jeffrey like us. I thought, I think
he's a great witness. He comes across to my eye
from living on planet Earth the decades that I've been

(10:21):
on Planet Earth as incredibly truthful. But let me know
what you think. Curious. He also comes back, So this
is the beginning of his testimony, and then he's brought
back as a rebuttal witness. So take a listen. Oh, actually,

(11:06):
one more thing. Sorry, I forgot the other thing I
had that up. I'm sorry. I just wanted to show
you this and I thought this was like a really
telling moment in Donna Aedelson's hearing. Excuse the sound, there
was not great sound at this hearing. But so we're
at the end of the hearing. Let me just set
the scene. We're at the end of Donna Edelson's last

(11:28):
pre trial hearing before her trial starts August nineteenth, and
Judge Everett asks everyone if there's anything else that they
would like to address. And Jackie Fulford, who is Donna
Aedelson's lawyer. She also runs a funeral home in addition
to being a defense lawyer. She's a former judge who,

(11:51):
like I said, was moved from the bench or retired
from the bench due to her disabilities, but really due
to complain of unethical behavior and bizarro rulings like she
had one woman pay off a multi thousand dollars UH

(12:13):
restitution by paying it off a dollar every month. I
mean she would die before she could pay it all back.
It goes into like it was just ridiculous. So here
is Jackie Fulford, don Aedelson's lawyer, stands up and says, there, yes,
she has something she would like to address.

Speaker 5 (12:35):
Judge, We're going to have an issue regarding space. We're
not going to fit here.

Speaker 9 (12:42):
We also don't on our computer screen space cameras and
the audience being able to see what on computer screens
I have become very old, and the bond size I
use is very large, and probably someone in the back
roup and see what I have on my computer.

Speaker 7 (13:00):
So we're going to need to have.

Speaker 9 (13:03):
I understand we're blocked by let's call them, but we're
going to need to have some kind.

Speaker 6 (13:08):
Of set up where we can we can put.

Speaker 9 (13:10):
Our things in our defense not be disclosed ahead.

Speaker 5 (13:13):
Of time to the media and blogs and this and that.

Speaker 9 (13:18):
The second thing is, uh, these microphones used to have
the ability that you could touch it and it would
turn off.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
My client is going to.

Speaker 9 (13:26):
Hear it, so she talks loud, so everything she says
is going to be picked up.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
This one is now set up so you have to.

Speaker 9 (13:33):
Press it each time you want to muede it and
like pressing hold, we got to hold it down for it.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
To continue to stay muted.

Speaker 5 (13:41):
And we're going to ask.

Speaker 9 (13:42):
If if put ad in could put it back to.

Speaker 5 (13:45):
The function where we can put it push it all.

Speaker 9 (13:49):
I don't think there's going to be any opportunity in
the trial or someone did not pick up on a
recording mister Slone's voice.

Speaker 7 (13:56):
He's very loud. I tend to be allowed to, so.

Speaker 10 (14:01):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Strangely, right before this hearing, and I have earphones and
I have the ability to turn it way up, you
just couldn't hear what they were saying. You could hear
that they were talking, and this is Josh Selman and Donna.
They were all talking on full Mike, and strangely nothing

(14:25):
got on Mike. So at least I don't know whether
that Mike that Mike was on or we're listening to
the court TVs Mike. But you couldn't hear what they
were saying. They were whispering and and dealing well with it.

(14:47):
But what this lets me know is that she's very
aware that this is a high profile trial, that this
is her moment, and she wants special attention. And then
she says, what I don't understand here is how big
is they're entourage? How does is there more than three
of them? Do they have interns that are interning with

(15:09):
them that need to sit with them in the same table?
Is and is there a jury consultant that's coming in
that needs to sit at the table? Who else is
coming that won't fit at that table? So if you
didn't hear her, she said, we're not gonna all fit
at this table. And I thought Judge Everett's response was

(15:30):
really funny, so she went special treatment at the trial
are issue in oposition.

Speaker 9 (15:35):
But it's certainly going to be a problem when we're
trying to speak to our client about something, because it's going.

Speaker 6 (15:40):
To be hurt.

Speaker 11 (15:42):
Well in front.

Speaker 6 (15:45):
That I'll understand the concerns that we're.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Get done climb that doesn't need you know where, That
might be the easiest way for that.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
We have.

Speaker 6 (16:05):
The microphone.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
You see it set up in the gallery.

Speaker 9 (16:10):
The first two those behind these.

Speaker 5 (16:14):
Are to any numbers of the media. That is one
of the hot side.

Speaker 11 (16:22):
You need to range how you see that the.

Speaker 5 (16:26):
Tato so you need to see on the.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Right.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
How can Judge Everett think of all these things sit
on the far left? Apparently there are special screens you
can put on your computer. Who just asked about the
banana bread nicola. No, no, you would not be able
to eat Donna's banana bread. You have to have a

(16:53):
kosher kitchen, kitchen which includes a kosher oven. Because Donna
Edelsen didn't keep kosher me She mixed milk and meat
in her oven, it would not be kosher. Dan Markel
wouldn't have been able to eat any of it. This
is why I think this is banana bread story is
a big lie thought up by Wendy Aedelson. I think

(17:15):
on the fly that Dan asked her to babysit. I
mean he had a he had emotion pending, asking Donna
Aedelson to only be able to see his children with

(17:36):
a supervisor, which Donna Aedelson would have found humiliating. So
kosher is a big deal. It's I mean, both people
have to really be committed to it. I do have
actually are more like my boyfriend's friends, but friends who

(17:58):
got married and like Dan Marcel, the husband became more
more conservative in his Judaism and now keeps kosher, and
the wife begrudgingly keeps kosher with him. And but they
have kids and love each other, and you know it's

(18:19):
they're not They're very copasetic and in other ways. So
but it's it's difficult. It's a difficult thing to take on.
How That's one thing that the victim impact letters talk
about is how Dan Markel felt that he could meet
any challenge, no matter how difficult, and no matter how

(18:42):
much the differences between people. He felt he always could
find a solution. And when you have working with someone
like the Adolsen family that think that any compromise is
a lot, and there's so much about winning they can't

(19:04):
stand to lose. They have to win and win at everything,
it's going to be a massive problem. I mean, what
are when you listen to Wendy Agelson and you listen
to her in interrogation if you want to call it that,

(19:25):
or her police interview, whatever you want to call it.
She complains a lot about Dan Marcel and she called
basically says she was a victim of him, and he
was very headstrong and bossy and menacing, and she was
afraid of him, etc. But she never talks about any

(19:45):
kind of compromises or anything that she gave up to
be with him. Besides being in Tallahassee, it's not like
she moved to Tim book three. I mean, you would
think that they were in you know, Alaska or Wyi
or something. I mean, she's just a short plain flight

(20:06):
away from her parents. But for her, it it didn't
have the cachet of Miami. Anyway. That's what I wanted
to say about this. I just thought it was ridiculous. Also,
I don't think Jackie Fulford presents well in court. I
don't find her likable. I don't know about you, guys.

(20:27):
I found Dan Rashbaum a whole lot more likable than
Jackie Fulford. Zelman isn't bad, but she's very She would
turn me off as a juror. Your latex spous Nice
to see you. I haven't seen you in a while.
I bake banana bread. I bake banana bread. Last night
in Anna Donna Donna, he fakes Donna's special banana bread.

Speaker 5 (20:55):
SA.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Anybody'd been following the speaking of has it been a following?
The latest on the mushroom murder trial from Australia. The
woman who killed her in laws, relatives, her ex husband's
relatives with poisoned mushrooms in a beat Wellington. Apparently she

(21:21):
tried to kill her husband four times and he survived,
but he was sent to the hospital four times after
eating her food. So when she invited him to this dinner,
he was like, no, thanks, can't make it. So apparently
they're saying they kept that evidence out of the trial
because it was too prejudicial. It's like, wow, that's a

(21:42):
that's a pretty liberal ruley there. I don't know how
many judges would go that way in America. I mean,
it certainly shows a pattern of behavior. All right, here
is Jeffrey Lakatz. That's testify. I'm fully I've fully done
all the housekeeping I had to do.

Speaker 6 (22:07):
Hm, Please raise your right Handser. Do you swear or
affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth?

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (22:25):
You may take your seat.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Nicola, I don't think there is such a thing as
kosher style food. I mean what kosher style food means
is Nathan's was Nathan's hot dogs, deli food, so pastrami sandwich.
I don't think anything any of that was served in
Boca Raton at their fancy wedding. I think it's just
another lie made up. She served non kosher food and

(22:51):
said he could live with it there there it's very
expensive and hard to do so to get just to
but their rabbi left in anger because he couldn't eat.
There was lots of guests that could not eat at
the wedding. So it's just not a thing that would

(23:13):
exist at a wedding unless it was an extremely casual wedding,
some kind of backyard kind of wedding.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
I mean, I mean it.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Would be like half sour pickles, pastrami and rye sandwiches,
Nathan's hot dogs, those kind of things are Kosher style.
So they bring to mind the you know what are
traditionally Jewish foods, but they're not necessarily kosher. But I mean,

(23:49):
it's just I mean, what that did. The reason she
said that is that she was saying that it was
his misunderstanding that they are already It wasn't that she
did this, made this decision about the food against his wishes,
and sort of secretly, it's that she communicated to him

(24:10):
what was going to happen, and he misunderstood that. She said, oh,
he thought it would be kosher, but she said it
was gonna be Kosher style. I mean, you see the
amount of non kosher food they eat, and I find
it's very interesting that when they're having this celebration dinner
for their father's birthday, that the food that they're having

(24:33):
is paea and I mean just would be incredibly offensive
to someone keeping kosher. I mean, everything that's not allowed
in kosher diet in one dish.

Speaker 5 (24:50):
Practically, Please introduce yourself and spell your name.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
My name's Jeffrey Lackass Sorry, fri y La c ASSD.
How are you employed, sir, I'm associate professor of Florida
State University.

Speaker 5 (25:12):
How long have you been with FSU?

Speaker 2 (25:15):
I came back in twenty thirteen. I was also there
from two thousand to two thousand and eight.

Speaker 5 (25:21):
Have you always lived in Tallahassee?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
No, I'm from California. Originally, I went to Phoenix for
five years from twenty eight to twenty thirteen. Really loved Tallahassee.
So when I got a tenure track drop here, I
was excited to return and fall of twenty thirteen.

Speaker 5 (25:36):
Did you have a relationship at some point with Wendy Adelson?

Speaker 2 (25:39):
I did.

Speaker 5 (25:40):
What was that relationship?

Speaker 2 (25:42):
We met in the fall of twenty thirteen, ologized for
my voice. I'm still water.

Speaker 5 (25:47):
You can have water.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
We started dating the fall of twenty thirteen September twenty thirteen.
We dated casually in the fall, and more seriously in
the spring of twenty spring and summer in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 5 (26:03):
When did the relationship end.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Well, that's a little tricky, but basicly July of twenty fourteen.

Speaker 5 (26:10):
All right, we'll walk through that a little more in detail.
During the time that you were dating miss Adelson, I.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Really want lie.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
I don't know way do we need to move it.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Very much? It's just about the right distance here, not sure, but.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
I know it's targeting right, yes, sir, all right.

Speaker 5 (26:42):
So during the time that you were together, did you
become aware of Wendy Edelson's recent divorce from Dan Markel.

Speaker 8 (26:49):
I did.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
On our first several dates. That was the primary topic
of conversation.

Speaker 5 (26:54):
And were you aware that this was an unusually nasty divorce. Yes,
during the time that you were.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Interesting of Wendy to want to talk about her divorce
on her first dates with Jeffrey Lacasse. Doesn't that say
that she feels that he's beneath her. This is someone
that she feels like she's not worried about losing. I mean,
the rule on first dates is not to talk about
your exes, certainly not your divorce in your ex husband.

(27:25):
But she's gonna make it not only the subject of
their first dates, their first couple of dates. I mean,
he was picked. There's like a May West movie because
I'm No Angel with Carrie Grant, where there's a character
called the chump, Like that's like Jeffrey Lacasse. Like, that's

(27:45):
how I think she viewed Jeffrey Lacasse. He was gonna
be the chump, he was going to be the pawn,
and she was going to pin pin this ultimately her.

Speaker 5 (28:00):
Did you become aware that even subsequent to the divorce
there was ongoing litigation pending?

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (28:08):
Did you know Dan Markel?

Speaker 2 (28:10):
I met Professor Markel. I did not know him. I've
probably spent ten to fifteen minutes in his presence across
the course of that relationship.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
And were you specifically familiar with the litigation concerning Wendy
Agelsen relocating with her children to South Florida.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yes, that was a topic of conversation for sure.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
If you know, did Wendy want that relocation to take place?

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yes. On our second date, the top of Gumver relocation
and being stuck in Tallasse came up and the date
was ended abruptly when she went to the bathroom and
returned with tears in her eyes and just left the
date because she was so upset. That was about two
and a half months after it was denied, and it
continued to be a topic.

Speaker 5 (28:54):
But that's but that issue seemed to be specifically what
was upsetting her on that day?

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Only? Was she she left the group dates suddenly because
it came.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Out all right?

Speaker 5 (29:04):
And did she have family in South Florida?

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (29:06):
And what family was that?

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, her brother Charlie Edelson, Harvey Aedelson, her father, and
Donna Jilson and her mother were the ones primarily that
I heard about.

Speaker 5 (29:17):
Were you also familiar with the litigation seeking to limit
the exposure of Wendy Adelson's young sons to her mom
Donna Aedelson.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yes, in spring of twenty fourteen.

Speaker 6 (29:27):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (29:28):
And did you observe Wendy to be taking that filing seriously?
Did she seem stressed or worried about it?

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Every time they just zoom in on Ruth Markel, Dan
Markell's mother. It's just the face of grief. Did oh
Phil Markel, it's so sad, Like I said, these these
wounds don't heal.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Every filing she took seriously, and she was stressed. I
reported a TPD that every time emotion was filed it
affected our relationship because she's very up.

Speaker 5 (30:02):
During the time that you were in a relationship with Wendy,
did you have an occasion to meet her family members
in South Florida.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I did well. I met her parents mostly up here.
So I met Donna, Donna and Harvey Adelson probably eight
to twelve times up here. I met the defendant Donna
South Florida one time.

Speaker 5 (30:21):
All right, So you only met Charlie Aedelson one time.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
That's correct?

Speaker 12 (30:26):
When was that?

Speaker 2 (30:27):
That was March the evening of March eleventh, twenty fourteen.

Speaker 5 (30:32):
And had you already met the parents several times at
that point?

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yes, by six eight times at that point, maybe more so.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
They came here quite frequently. Yes, What about Kathin.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
So Donna Edelson on the jailhouse calls with her son,
Charlie Edelson denies that she met Jeffrey lacas so many times.
She says she met him once. Between Donna and Jeffreys,
maybe seven or eight times is maybe a little too much,

(31:05):
But I would err on the side of Jeffrey Lacasse
over Donna Adelson. She said she met a what I
find that doubtful with how often they visited from Macvan.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
When did you meet her?

Speaker 2 (31:21):
She was present at the dinner that I attended on
March eleventh, where it was myself, the defendant, Whndy Adelson
and her went to dinner that evening March eleven.

Speaker 5 (31:32):
You're saying the defendant. Do you see the person in
the courtroom, yes, that you had dinner with. Who's that?

Speaker 2 (31:37):
That is Charles Ailson known to me as Charlie.

Speaker 5 (31:40):
Could you point him out and describe what he's wearing.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, he's sitting in the center of the defense table
ring a lightwood tie and a Navy Boloye sports code.

Speaker 5 (31:48):
All right. And so Catherine macbana, how is she related
to this family or affiliated with the family.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
I was introduced to her as Charlie's new girlfriend essentially.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
And was it your understanding that this was the first
time that Wendy was meeting Catherine my vanel as well?

Speaker 2 (32:06):
That was my understanding. And she was excited about about
Katherine mag Magmanua, and that was my impression.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
Yes, all right, So anything unusual happened at the dinner.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Well, at the dinner, missus mag Mianula mentioned that she
had a I guess it was her ex common law
husband who had a criminal history. That sounded very serious,
and I did raise my eyebrows at that.

Speaker 5 (32:36):
Did Charlie Adelson seem disturbed or upset by Katherine Magbanama mentioning.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
That I don't recall him seeming disturbed.

Speaker 5 (32:45):
No, all right, what about after dinner? Where'd you go next?

Speaker 2 (32:49):
We went to miss Radelson's home and we sat in
his hot tub and had a few drinks and talked
for a little while.

Speaker 5 (32:56):
Who's the wee that sat in the hot tub?

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, myself, Wendy Adelson. Charles Adelson was in the hot
tub for a while, and his then roommate, doctor Jerome Obed.

Speaker 5 (33:07):
All right, so doctor Obed was living with Charlie Adelson
at that time.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
That was my understanding. It was his roommate.

Speaker 5 (33:13):
Yeah, all right. And where was Katherine macnanalla.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
At that time?

Speaker 2 (33:19):
She did not accompany us back to the house.

Speaker 5 (33:23):
In the hot tub, did the defendant make some statements
that were of interest in this case?

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (33:31):
What were those?

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Jag objection motion.

Speaker 12 (33:36):
In me.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Kay, okay, let's move past this.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
Hot tub. Mentioned anything about having connections to.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yes, he did. He mentioned having contacts on both sides
of the tracks, meaning dentists, lawyers, professional class people. But
he also at people he knew that were a criminal element.

Speaker 5 (34:09):
Yes, specific anything about these people that are the criminal element.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
He mentioned specifically. I repeated it to TPD about Cuban
neighborhoods where you might find that criminal element.

Speaker 5 (34:25):
So he had connections to those type of people.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
That's what he said.

Speaker 5 (34:28):
What was the context of this was he just seemed
scared about it, worried about it, or something else.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Seemed to be bragging.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
I want to ask you about a meeting with Wendy
at a coffee shop that occurred on June fourth, twenty fourteen.
You re called that I do what happened at the
coffee shop.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
We went to the Red Eye coffee shop to have coffee,
just to meet midday, and miss Ailson canceled day trip
that we had planned for July eleventh to seventeenth to
go see my parents, which was a big deal in
the relationship, and she abruptly canceled it.

Speaker 5 (35:07):
Did she offer an explanation as to why she needed to.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Cancel the trip, not one that made sense. She said
that she feared that we would not get back in time,
and she had she emphasized, had to be back on
the eighteenth to pick the kids up out of school,
which would have been July eighteenth, five pm. As my
understanding and I couldn't fathom way in the summer going
through Atlanta, you wouldn't be able to get back in time.

(35:32):
It didn't make any sense to me.

Speaker 5 (35:34):
So she was worried you could be delayed and she
wouldn't be able to pick the kids up.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Right, and we had people who could baby sit. It
didn't make any sense at all, But that was what
she said. That day was very important, all right.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
And so that occurred on June fourth, It.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Did, And if you listened to his police interviews, he says,
it's like there was like a drum beat that they
were like moving towards something, towards that eighty said that
date meant something to me before I knew, you know,
what was going to happen. I'm sure he regrets that

(36:09):
he didn't go to the police, But what are you
going to go to the police and say, my girlfriend's
acting strangely, you know, if you don't, if you haven't
put this together yet.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
All right?

Speaker 5 (36:21):
Did you see her later that evening?

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I did. I went to the house to hang out
with her and her children.

Speaker 5 (36:25):
And is that her residence on Aqua Ridge, yes, ma'am.
And how was she that night? This is June fourth, right.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
It is.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
She was a nervous wreck to the point where she
was sick to her stomach, asked me to get to
our house as soon as possible. She wasn't that much
distress and she went. Didn't have food poisoning her, flud
or anything obvious. She was just a nervous wreck. So
I went to this, went to our house, immediately went
to the store to get her pepto bismo and a

(36:56):
couple of things from the convenience store. I have the
credit card re seat. That's why I recall that so specifically.

Speaker 5 (37:01):
And did you have any idea why she was acting?
I see this as unusual for her.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
It was fairly unusual. The degree of severity was definitely unusual.
But that whole week during fourth to ninth, she was very.

Speaker 5 (37:17):
Nervous, and she did Did she tell you it was
because killers were in Tallahassee to kill Dan Markel?

Speaker 4 (37:25):
Did she No?

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I was stunning a way to find out that there
was hitmen in town at the time.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
You know, the thing that makes him such a good
witness is the same reason that if it's true, let's
just put it that way, it could not be true.
You know, the idea that Jeffrey Lacas was going to
be the fall guy. It's certainly interesting that is car
looked a lot like the hitman's car, that Wendy Edelsen

(37:52):
was really interested in the trip that he was going
to take that morning, that would have moved him right
by the crime scene. Who taken him right by the
crime scene right after the murder had occurred. And it's
also the Aedelson's discussed specifically Donna's discussed with Jeffrey Lacas

(38:17):
that makes me think that he may have been the
fall guy. She really offended at the idea that he
says that they he met them so many times, when
I really do think he met them more than once.
I just I don't think he's going to make that up.
If he met them, it has to be more than once.

(38:40):
But the thing that makes him such an excellent witness
is that he was obsessed with Wendy Adelson, that he
so that during the time that he's with her, he's
analyzing and going over every little detail of their relationships
with its friends, and so he's going to remember these details. Really,
so it makes him such a strong witness. It's the

(39:02):
same reason why if he were was picked to be
the fall guy, he was picked for that same reason
that Oh Look, he was so obsessed that he killed Dan.
It never has made sense to me that he would
kill Dan Markel, her ex boyfriend. I mean they were
ex husband. Excuse me, I mean why would that? I mean,

(39:26):
maybe as an act of heroicism, He's gonna save Wendy
and then Wendy's gonna run back into his arms he's
killed the I mean, it just says so much about
the Agelsen's view of this murder that why would Wendy
run back into the arms of a man who's just
murdered her ex husband and permanently damaged her children. But

(39:50):
they never think about the damage to her children, So
it's kind of telling in that way. But during the
time that he was dating or he was a sessing
over every little detail of their relationship, so he's going
to remember it. So the reason that he was picked
is again the same reason why he's such a good
witness in this case, among other things besides being psychologically perceptive.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
And into it, is Well, let's go forward a little
bit to this TV situation. Do you know anything about
Wendy's TV being broken?

Speaker 3 (40:30):
I do?

Speaker 5 (40:31):
And when was the TV broken?

Speaker 2 (40:34):
If you know, between June eleventh and eighteenth, I think
is closer to the eleventh, about one hundred percent in
that week. And how do you know it was in
that week because we rented a movie How to Train
a Dragon Too to give the kids a special movie night.
And I have text messages where I'm discussing having seen
the movie by the eighteenth with friends.

Speaker 5 (40:55):
So you're able to recapt your memory. Yeah, yeah, all right,
So do you get the movie or I?

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Well, it was back in the day it was red box,
so I rented a DVD from a red box. It
was twenty fourteen, all right.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
And go over there with the movie. And what happens
when you arrived.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
I walk in the door and miss Adelson asked me
to look at her television because there's something wrong with
the television.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
And what was wrong with the television?

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Well, I turned it on and it was immediately confused,
because it really shouldn't have been a question. As soon
as you turned the TV on, It's been struck by
an object and is damaged and basically unusable.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
Can you explain what the damage looked like?

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, it looked like somebody stood in front of it,
took their fist and hit it like that was my
first impression.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
Kind of like a shatter mark with spighters.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, there's like an impact crater, and then there's uh
from that, there's and it's all pixelated and distorted, which
makes it very difficult. Really, no one would watch this
TV unless you had to. And I had second thoughts
about that. I looked around the room. Maybe the kids
broke it. So I looked all around the room, and
it didn't seem plausible that the children broke it. They're

(42:04):
very small. This object had to be kind of heavy.
I'd thrown a ball around with them. I just couldn't
see how the kids could have could have done it.

Speaker 5 (42:13):
But you didn't see how it got I didn't see.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
I didn't know for sure, and I didn't know we'd
been discussing this in a murder trial, so I didn't
like investigate further think about it very much, to be
honest with you, I.

Speaker 5 (42:23):
Just thought, Okay, were there other TVs in the house.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
There was a TV in the back bedroom, some more
making model that we had watched television with the kids
before on that TV before, So.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
Yes, is that where you watched the movie that night?

Speaker 12 (42:36):
No?

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I went to go h hook up the DVD player
in the back room, Miss Adelson insisted that it would
not work and actually stopped me from even trying.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
It's so telling. It's so telling and so representative of
how Wendy Edelson it considers her children's feel So here's
the night that's supposed to be special treat for her
kids movie night. And because Wendy needs everybody to remember
that the TV's broken, that they all have to not

(43:15):
only she's going to show Jeffrey the cast so that
she has to verify her alibi that she needed this
TV fixed. So it's very important that everyone remembered that
this TV was broken, that she rather have her children's
special treat night ruined for her for this sick reason

(43:38):
that she needs to back up her alibi. Then actually say, Okay,
everybody's noticed that it's broken, and I mean it's not
good enough that Jeffery as has to would remember hooking
it up in the other room. No, she's going to
make her kids watch it in case they ask your kids,

(43:58):
they're going to remember this miserable experience. They might not
remember if a good experience of watching the TV in
the other room, but they're gonna remember a miserable experience
of watching it for an hour and a half hour,
forty minutes, however long how to train a dragon do is?

(44:21):
It's just so telling. I mean, her needs come first,
and she's happy to make her children suffer to get
the things that she wants. So, I mean, I agree
with Jeffrey the Cast that she's most likely, like most
of the people that I talk about on this channel,

(44:42):
a psychopath, which means they're also a narcissist. All psychopaths
are also narcissists, not all narcissists or psychopaths. But it's
so telling that she has no empathy for her own
children and the suffering she's called. And I know it's
not a big deal, like one one movie night, but

(45:07):
but these are the kind of things that you live
for as a kid.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
So I thought that was very odd, but I didn't
want to argue, and it's her house for TV, her kids,
So I said, okay, so.

Speaker 5 (45:18):
Did you watch the movie on the broken TV?

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Yeah, we gave the kids movie night where we watched
a movie on a broken television. It was distorted enough
that you could follow what was happening, but the kids
are whining and crying the whole time, and I wasn't
whining or crying exactly, but it was tempted to because
it was it was pretty frustrating, and I just didn't understand, uh,

(45:44):
you know, what was was going on. And of course
I had related that this TV is broken, it's unwatchable,
it's not covered by warranty. You're gonna have to get
a new TV. And I offered to go do that
for her anytime she wanted. She's a busy single mom.
I'll run by best bike new TV. It was not
like an eight inch TV or something that was really

(46:04):
that luxurious. It was a TV like you'd see in
a dorm room, so we could have replaced it right away.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
All right, did you end up getting a new TV?

Speaker 6 (46:13):
No?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
She turned me down several times on that offer, and
I a get it's her house. I tried to respect
her boundaries and I said, oh, okay, but it was
inconvenient because after dinner, it's nice to be able to
put the kids in front of that TV while you
clean up the dishes and stuff and sat there being
an inconvenience for a while.

Speaker 5 (46:31):
All Right, I want to ask you about when is
miss Adelson's birthday?

Speaker 2 (46:43):
April twenty second, Okay, Earth.

Speaker 5 (46:48):
Day, I've got this out of order. Let's skip over
that for now and go to.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
The big or Two days after Hitler's birthday.

Speaker 5 (46:56):
Fight in June, Miss Adelson mentioned that there was a
big fight toward the end of June.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Do you recall that, Yeah, that's the weekend in June
twenty seven, twenty eighth.

Speaker 5 (47:06):
Where were you when that fight occurred.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
We were in Gamesville. Missaloson accompanied me for a work
trip and we had had that schedule for a while
and we went. She accompanied me at a work trip
and we ended up having a pretty big argument Saturday
night in the hotel.

Speaker 5 (47:24):
When did that have to do with you accusing her
of seeing other men?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
That was one of the issues. There's been a lot
of tension bubbling. That was the major issue. But just
to give that some context, I suspected Roy strongly and
she would see another man. Of course your office I
confirmed recently to me that there was multiple online active
dating accounts the whole time we were supposed to be exclusive.

(47:49):
But just to give context to that, that was combined
with Wendy promising me the world in June talking about
me moving in. Shouldn't get a cheap you should get
a car you know that the kid's car seats will
fit in. The kids should start calling you daddy was
the most outrageous one, and so she's like throwing herself

(48:10):
at me over the top, and I wait, I thought,
totally disingenuous and fake. And at the same time, I
think she's seen other guys. So it just it just
kind of boiled over. I tried to have like a serious,
honest relationship conversation with her, and that didn't go very well.

Speaker 5 (48:25):
So you were kind of, at least up until all
of this started happening, you were kind of full steam ahead.
And it seems like she was a little stop and
go hot and cold as that.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
It was a rollercoaster, that is what I would say,
right And then, of course, see, psychopaths can only really
mimic emotion, but they're very good at summing up people's
needs and wants. So she keyed in and profiled Jeffrey
Lacasse as someone who wanted a family very badly. My

(48:56):
understand these is he married now or does he already divorced?
Who knows? Who knows? In this date age.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
See, and I had felt since April that I was
perhaps being strong along. I had that intuition. I didn't
couldn't fad him a reason why you would string a
string a guy along like that. I didn't make any
sense at the time.

Speaker 5 (49:18):
All right, So June. We're in June, like twenty eighth range. Okay, okay,
when when do you come back from Gainesville?

Speaker 2 (49:27):
The morning of the twenty ninth, after this this fight,
this argument, we drive that we drive back to Tawa.
Has You know, I had another ride back and I
offered to take that out of the ride if the
fight was that bad, you know, because we could have
broken off after this. That was she wanted to ride back.

Speaker 5 (49:44):
You wrote together, Yeah, we wrote together, all right, so
you rode back together? And then was she leaving that day?

Speaker 2 (49:52):
I believe.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
With it was the.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I thought. She picked up the kids the next day
from Professor Markel's house and that's when she met Amy
Adler and that was a big deal to her.

Speaker 5 (50:07):
Amy Adler was Dan's girlfriend at the time.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yes, that's interesting. That's the first time I've really keyed
in on that. So meeting Amy Adler, who is really
a beauty. Apparently she's married and divorced after this, after
Dan Markel's death, She's John Adler the he's a potter

(50:31):
design interior design. You can buy his couches and all
sorts of interior design things. He's like an empire. Basically,
he's married to Dan Noonan, who who did the windows
for Barney's, these very famous windows. Barney's like a high

(50:53):
end was a high end store in New York and
their windows were very famous, clever windows, especially around Christmas time. Credible.
So Amy Adler taught at NYU Law for Artists and

(51:14):
she still does beautiful, smart, accomplished, and so's Wendy, much
more so than Wendy, and has of course the Adler name,
which is pretty much attached to this famous sibling. I
don't think Wendy could compete with her, and I think

(51:36):
this sure made Wendy hugely jealous. So here's Jeffery Lacas
saying it was a huge deal. Let me just go
back a second or two. It's a big deal for
her to meet Amy Adler.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
I thought she picked up the kids the next day
from Professor Markel's house and that's when she met Amy Adler,
and that was a big deal to her.

Speaker 5 (52:00):
Amy Adler was Dan's girlfriend at the time. Yes, Okay,
so it's at some point after the big fight and
the return from Gainesville, does she leave to go to
South FORDA?

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Yeah? Uh.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
A day or two later, she definitely leaves to return
to South Florida. She's in South Florida by July one,
all right?

Speaker 5 (52:18):
And was that the trip that she was there for
her dad's birthday?

Speaker 2 (52:21):
That's correct.

Speaker 5 (52:22):
Did you attend the dad's birthday?

Speaker 4 (52:25):
No?

Speaker 2 (52:26):
I was never invited to the dad's birthday, all right?

Speaker 5 (52:30):
And were you aware what the big gift was for
dad's birthday?

Speaker 2 (52:34):
No? All right?

Speaker 5 (52:38):
So when did you see whnny next? After she leaves
to go to Southboloria? I guess after you return from Gainesville.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
So during that two week period, we're exchanging emails, texts,
long phone calls, video chats with the kids. Things are
up and down, but it seems was probably going to
be okay. That's the impression I was given by miss Adelson.
I was being strong along two more weeks, but I
see her again on the thirteenth when she come back,

(53:06):
comes back in town and is excited to have a
date with me. So we had a date, all right.

Speaker 5 (53:10):
So now we're at July thirteenth, twenty fourteenth.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
That's correct.

Speaker 5 (53:13):
Within a week of the murder. That's right, I tell
us about your interactions with her that day.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Yeah, we went to dinner in a movie and we
returned to our house on Aqua Ridge.

Speaker 5 (53:25):
All right, And did she tell you anything and asked
to tell you anything in confidence that evening?

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, a very serious tone of voice. The topic of
conversation as we're walking up to the house is about relocation,
being stuck in Taha, seeing Danny, as the conversation always
was about Danny Markel. She said, in a very serious
tone of voice, can I tell you something in confidence?

Speaker 5 (53:59):
I think I do much as to approach.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
So he's gonna say that I believe this has to
do with a hit man? Am I wrong? Am I
misremembering the testimony for some reason? I'm remembering that testimony
happening indoors, not outdoors. But the defense, whatever this is,

(54:29):
the defense is desperate to keep this out. Let's see
who wins. Charlie Adilsen looks extremely nervous. He's got the
Robert Durst blinking going on. And what a horrible thing

(54:50):
to have to be a witness and a murder trial.
I mean, you put yourself up for all sorts of stuff.

Speaker 6 (54:56):
Back outside.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Oh, so he's gonna come in as a rebuttal witness.
I think that's how this works.

Speaker 6 (55:13):
Everyone can be seated bringing up both the emotion lemonae
and the prior order that have been issued on this.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Does anyone mind if we watch this part has I'm
not remembering this very well. I hope you don't mind.

(56:33):
All right, Well, we're spilit with some people saying yes,
some people saying no. But I just want to see
what they're trying to throw out of his testimony. I
can't remember. I assumed this would be my brother hired
a him man. Let me know if you know. H

(57:06):
m hmmm.

Speaker 6 (57:13):
The ruling that was made as to the defense motion
and lemony concern the state elictening this as a part
of its case in chief. However, mister ralsh Baum, at
this point, Miss Adelson has specifically denied making this statement.
Why is this not why is this an improper ground

(57:37):
for the state to explore this on impeachment?

Speaker 3 (57:41):
It's still here, shit, you're honor, it's double hear shit,
it's not done.

Speaker 6 (57:45):
All sorts of matters that otherwise would being admissible can
become impeachment.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
If doctor Edelson Charlie Edelson made that statement, mister Lacasse,
and he denied it. You could impeach him. They're impeaching
another witness. That's not allowed. That's number one. Number two,
I brought.

Speaker 6 (58:11):
Up the impeachment of one witness's testimony through another is
not allowed.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
But they're impeaching her to go to his statement. They're
stuck with her answer. They could have kept on cross
examining her of why they thought her answer was wrong.
They can't now backdoor it through hearsay in another witness.
That was the whole point of the emotion.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Okay, So Wesley loves october Fest, says hey, roberta mod
squad and chat peeps. I can only drop in for
a few minutes. Oh no, Wesley, I hope everyone is well.
Thank you, Roberta, Thank you Weslie for supporting the channel.
I appreciate it. As you know, this is a listeners

(59:00):
a channel, so I appreciate it. I can't do it
without you guys.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Similarly, Judge, we brought this issue up first thing this morning, sidebar,
because if they were going to be allowed to do it,
I was going to ask miss Aedelson other questions on
this issue. They said they weren't going to do it,
So I didn't ask her those questions. And I didn't

(59:29):
ask her those questions because I didn't want to open
the door to it. And I can't call miss Edelson
back as a witness because she has a Fifth Amendment
right and I can't give her immunity. I brought this
up for this very reason. She denied the statement yesterday.

(59:49):
That's why I brought it up today. They can't back
door a double hearsay statement based on a denial by
that witness can't do it.

Speaker 6 (01:00:00):
Apple them.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
Was specifically drawn to the place.

Speaker 6 (01:00:13):
This is not an insignificant fact or an immaterial one.
Mister Rashbaum, if you wish to find some authority, I
will give you five minutes a look. If you have

(01:00:33):
anything to argue as to this matter. Miss Adelson has
denied making the statement. She can be impeached through other
witnesses regarding this matter. I will give you an opportunity
to find some authority. If there's something more specific you
can point me to other than what you're a doing
right now.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
I brought this up this morning so that I could
front it with miss Edelson, and we were told you
were told that they weren't going down this path. If
I'd been told something different, I would have done something
different that I can no longer do. It's precisely why
I went sidebark first thing in the morning.

Speaker 6 (01:01:14):
What is your response is to that portion of the argument? Miscupleman,
that's a legal argument.

Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
I was asked if I was intending to offer double hearsay.
I said, I would never be offering your say without
an exception.

Speaker 6 (01:01:29):
I assume he's making this on fairness grounds, which goes
to this would have changed the strategy of how he
examined the witness.

Speaker 11 (01:01:37):
I don't know what to do about that.

Speaker 7 (01:01:43):
Have better strategy.

Speaker 5 (01:01:45):
I was real specific with the witness to get that denial,
So I'm not sure why the issue wasn't raised.

Speaker 10 (01:01:56):
At that point.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Judge, I was really specific this moment this morning, that
the double hearsay related to my emotion in Lemonade, related
to Jeffrey Lacosse.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
You knew what I was talking.

Speaker 6 (01:02:08):
Hold on my ears worked perfectly well. You don't have
to raise your voice make your argument.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Please Everyone sidebar knew exactly what I was talking about,
and we were told Miss Kapelman told you as an
officer of the court that she was not going down
that road, and so when Miss Adelson was on the stand,
I stayed away from it, not to open the door

(01:02:38):
to it. She knew exactly what statement we were talking about.
If you tell me you didn't know what statement I
was talking about, I'll sit down. I was very specific.
I was very specific that it was the double hearsay
statement related to Jeffrey Lacosse that we filed our motion
and lemonae on. I was very specific that it applied

(01:02:58):
to this and also the Jew dinner. Those were the
words specifically out of my mouth back there, because when
she asked the questions of Miss Adelson, which were completely appropriate,
I thought she might be going down this path. And
so the first thing in the morning, we went sidebark
so I could stop the charade, so that if the

(01:03:20):
court were going to allow it to come in, I
would handle it. She stayed silent, and I've been jumping
up and down to try to prevent any possible mistrial
twice and still no mention of it. It's completely unfair,

(01:03:41):
completely improper, and it denies it in his constitutional right
of due process.

Speaker 6 (01:03:46):
Yeah, and that's why I raised the issue. This goes
to the fairness aspect of it. Take a brief five
minute recess. If you have any authority you wish to present,
I will entertain it further.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
You know, he's got to run and try to find
case law in five minutes. Oh boy, talk about pressure. Right, Okay,
here we.

Speaker 5 (01:04:19):
Are miss Adelson by drawing her attention.

Speaker 6 (01:04:24):
Record, Go ahead, it's already on the record.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
We were out sidebar.

Speaker 5 (01:04:29):
What I was asked my understanding what I was asked
is was I intending to introduce any hearsay within hearsay
through mister Lacosse. And my answer was that I would
not introduce any hearsay within hearsay without exceptions. I think
it was clear what I was intending to do was
set up an impeachment through Miss Adelson by drawing her
attention to the specific date and time of the statement

(01:04:51):
and asking her specifically if she made the statement, which
she denied. I find it hard to believe that that
doesn't alert the defense in fairmo that That's what I'm
intending to do, and that's what I did in the
last trial successfully, which the.

Speaker 13 (01:05:05):
Defense in this case was in attendance at So I
think it's unfair to the State, But I understand your
honor is ruling and we'll be ready to proceed.

Speaker 6 (01:05:17):
Please bring in the witness so we can go through
the proffer Our words are stock in trade. If you're uncertain,
Miss Capelman as to what mister Rashbaum was raising, we
probably should have clarified it at that point. Please bring
in the witness. I think so also, so we don't

(01:05:56):
have to go through this again, mister Rashbaum. As it
pertains to the other rulings in the defense's motion and
lemony that the Court has previously addressed, although they may
not be certain rulings pertain to the state's ability to
present as substantive evidence. You understand this does not affect

(01:06:19):
their ability to present it as impeachment. As it pertains
to all of the items that have been ruled on
previously June and Chimda, meaning everything that we've been previously
addressing through these motions, well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
They still have to follow the extrinsic evidence collateral evidence rule.

Speaker 6 (01:06:40):
My point being, something that cannot come in substantively can
still be impeached with you understand this can. Yes, I'm
not saying it's necessarily going to happen. So we're not
doing this song and dance about any other matters.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
All right.

Speaker 6 (01:06:56):
If we need to have sidebars and you're attempting to
clarify something, if you're asking specifically as to impeachment, you
need to be specific as well. Turn up, Miss Dugan,
please bring in mister lacause.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
I really like Judge Jedifrid. It's such a calm seems
pretty fair. Judge keeps control over his courtroom, unlike other
judges we've seen recently.

Speaker 6 (01:07:40):
You maybe stated, mister Lacosse, it's cat when you finish
your sequence.

Speaker 5 (01:07:46):
Question on the cope of you were starting, mister Lacosse.
When we broke, we were discussing a statement made to
you by Wyny Aedelson on July thirteenth, twenty fourteen, at
her residence here in Tallahassee. Do you recall which statement?

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Yes, ma'am, all right?

Speaker 5 (01:08:01):
And what was that statement?

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
After asking to speak to me confidentially, she told me
that last summer that Charles Ailson had looked into all
possible options to take care of the Danny Mark Hell problem,
including hiring a hitman, and they would cost about fifteen
thousand dollars. I revised them out, I said, potentially I
could have been fifty thousand dollars. I'm unsured the amount.

(01:08:25):
The rest of the statement, very confidence is true.

Speaker 5 (01:08:28):
So you weren't sure whether she said fifteen or fifteen.
But she didn't say fifteen or fifty. She said one
of these.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
She said one number that I thought was fifteen when
I talked to TPD, I later thought that could have
been fifty.

Speaker 5 (01:08:41):
Okay, I'm with you. And this statement was made in
what context? What was her demeanor?

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Well, she asked to speak to me confidentially. She's dead
serious about it. It was a chilling statement. I had
a reaction to it. My stomach wept, a little scary,
a little weird. So it was a very serious statement
she's making.

Speaker 5 (01:09:08):
So clearly not a joke.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
No, I was not a joke. There are other jokes
in that domain. This was completely distinct and discreet from
any joke. This was not funny.

Speaker 5 (01:09:19):
And this statement was made within five days of mister
Markel's murder by a hitman.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
That's correct.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
It's so interesting. You know, you look at Charlie Aedelson
wiping his brow, and I've done a few shorts on
how much after his conviction Charlie Aedelson to Donna Adelson
complaining to Donna Adelson blamed Donna Adelson for her crazy

(01:09:48):
emails in her TV talk, but he blamed Wendy for
leaving her alibi, for not being able to help herself,
for driving by the crime scene. Check out my new
short by the way, I just put out a new
short today. I'm pretty happy with it. It'll be I

(01:10:10):
guarantee you it'll be worth a minute, and I think
it's a minute and a half. But let me see,
let's see if I can show this. I just want
to show the shorter version here it is.

Speaker 7 (01:10:29):
Yeah, you know, sorry, Yeah, like you said, by having
to show up with the need to have to have
known about it, that's why I might you knew about it,
why she was showing up. Yeah, people don't just randomly
show up at their acting house for no parent reason.

Speaker 11 (01:10:50):
Did she draw that route?

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 11 (01:10:52):
I wish you didn't turn on that street. Yeah yeah,
what law firms to that place?

Speaker 6 (01:11:02):
Like crazy?

Speaker 5 (01:11:04):
I mean it's crazy.

Speaker 6 (01:11:06):
It's what you said to me the other day.

Speaker 7 (01:11:07):
It's like a movie crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Like, wait a minute, these things can happen coincidences. It's
just a crazy coincidence.

Speaker 12 (01:11:16):
But it happens.

Speaker 11 (01:11:18):
But what brought her to that place in time, at
that time on that day, not an hour before an
hour happens? Yeah right, it would have had the like.

Speaker 7 (01:11:32):
Not five hours later, you know, Like you said, what
by having Wendy show us that the.

Speaker 11 (01:11:37):
Clients needed me?

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
So they agree that Wendy couldn't help her out. And
now I wonder if he's thinking, uh, Wendy again, why
did she have to open her big mouth? What was
the point? I mean, I think for Wendy the point
was two when I think she loved the idea that

(01:12:10):
when Jeffrey Lacasse, if this is true, that Jeffrey Lacasse was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
The fall guy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
She loved the idea of him saying all these things
and not being believed, being dragged away like a madman,
and knowing that it was the truth. But really, but really,
I mean, she was perfectly happy to have him falsely accused,
falsely convicted of the crime that her family did if possible.

(01:12:39):
You know, it really toughens you up to when Charlie
and Donna Edlesen complain about being lol falsely accused or
falsely convicted. They were perfectly happy to see an innocent
guy go down for their crime. And I love that

(01:13:00):
we just had a Wendy, Charlie and Dona. I hope
they weren't just trolls, just trolling in here. I really
hope they really were a Adelson family supporter. They're like unicorns,
we see them so seldom.

Speaker 5 (01:13:17):
And was this said in any way and content in
the context of the relocation issue.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Well, the what preceded her saying that was a discussion
of which, under what circumstances could she hear would she
leave Tallahassee. And she stayed that the only way to
leave Tahassee was something happened to Danny. That's all went
into the statement.

Speaker 5 (01:13:41):
I just thank you. That's the proper your honors.

Speaker 6 (01:13:49):
Right in the cross examination as the subject of the
proper yes, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
The statement was chilling and serious. Right, yes, do you
go to the police?

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
I did not.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
You were so scared about the statement that you didn't
alert the police the next day that night?

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
I did not.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Because it was a past tense statement, and I thought
Charlie was a scary guy. But it's about something supposed
that he did last summer. No, I did not know
there was a present case a present instant threat. I
did not know him and visited Tallahassee. I didn't have
the context.

Speaker 3 (01:14:37):
So the statement comes out and you say, all right,
and I could call the police. Hey, Wendy, you want
to go out tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
That's not quite how it went.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
No, you didn't try to go on a date with
her the next day.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
No, we did go on a date the next day,
and then she cut off all contact without barely talking
to me on that date.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
So it's odd that it's not about Wendy. Is because
Wendy said I hired a hitman, so her brother, it
wasn't dating her brother. I mean, this is a little
bit problem with Dan rash Bound's cross here. I mean,
you're really not going to date someone because they have
crazy family members or dangerous family members, maybe, especially if

(01:15:20):
you're madly head over heels the way Jeffrey Laicaus was
for Wendy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
So I didn't want a time to process it. But
it was a shocking enough thing that took a day
or to the process. Also, I had repeated that statement
to a friend of mine before the murder, and I
didn't get a reaction from her like this is shocking.
I sought feedback from a friend who woul verified that
I made that statement before the murder, and she said

(01:15:46):
she didn't say, oh geez, you should call the police.
So it wasn't just me. There was another person that
I consulted with because it freaked me out, and we
decided it was well. I decided after talking to her
it was past tense, so probably not that dangerous, and
we were really wrong. Maybe I should have called the police.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
So Charlie Edelson lets you know that he's as friends
in the criminal element, the Cuban criminal element, right, yes,
and you know that there is a heated dispute between
this family you testify to it today. Heated dispute, yes,
about relocation, about divorce.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
Well, it's just no longer about relocation. But yes, there's
an ongoing litigation for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
Right. And then Wendy Edolson tells you that this man
who is part of the criminal element, really looked into
hiring a hitman.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
She did say that, and you thought, I'm not going
to go to the police on that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
That's your testimony, right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
That's the decision I made. It didn't really cross my
mind because of the past tense nature of it, and
I consulted with the friend, bounced it off of her
before the murder, and neither one of us thought, oh geez,
what's called the police. So it's possible that probably is
so dangerous that I should have called the police. Yeah,
but I cannot.

Speaker 4 (01:16:58):
And so.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
At this point in time, your relationship with Wendy Eielson
was really bad?

Speaker 4 (01:17:02):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
It was hard to tell?

Speaker 3 (01:17:05):
Are you tell that it was really bad?

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
It was at a roller coaster ride constantly? Because you
refer to the next night, the next day, the fourteenth.
On the fourteenth, I got a warm, inviting call from
Wendy Aitelsen, eager to spend time with me, maybe trying
to distract me. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
Well, we're going to get to the distracting partner, yeah,
because that's what this is all about.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
But it wasn't in a great The relationship was not
in a great spot. I can see that to you.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
So your testimony is that when this woman is about
to break up with you, when she is avoiding you,
when you have just been caught going through her.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Phone and her how's she avoiding me?

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Well, yes, sir, your testimony is that when you are
on the outs with her, which the record will show
you were during this time period that she confides in
you the most serious, the most important thing in her life.

(01:18:02):
That's your testimony.

Speaker 6 (01:18:03):
Yes or no?

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
Yes, Okay. She has a history of boarding out things
that aren't in her own self interested.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
Judge, I would ask that to be stricken from the record.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
It's unresponsible. This is just a prop If you reached
the end of.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
Your cross, that's fine, you're.

Speaker 6 (01:18:27):
Or actually this capital then the Court's ruling remains the same.
You're not to inquire further as to the subject matter.
We will revisit later if it comes to it. Please
bring back in the witnesses or excuse me, the jurors.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
Okay, wait, so that was all out of the ear
of the jurors.

Speaker 6 (01:19:01):
Oh wow, exactly, Well one moment, because I don't know
what the celebration dinner.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Well though it's in the same motion in Lemonade, Judge.

Speaker 6 (01:19:20):
Number two, believe this is just concerned statements that didn't
say anything about where is the celebration dinner covered in
your motion.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
It's in the same motion in Lemonade. Regarding the here
states statements, there were several of them. The first one
was the statement that we just discussed and The second
one is that Charlie Eagleson said that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
He went to.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
Dinner with it, that she told uh that she told
him that Charlie Eagleson said it was a celebration dinner.
It's in the same motion in limited.

Speaker 6 (01:19:59):
However, this state is being directly attributed to your client.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
That was heard by the witness.

Speaker 14 (01:20:04):
Now this will cost please step down again. It just
seemed exactly issues. It's Wendy Eatlson telling him what Charlie
Eaglson said.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
Wow, so this is Wendy Aedelson telling him what Charlie
Aedelson said at the celebration dinner. In her ear, that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:41):
Thing cavilsse yes, Sir, I asked Miss Adelson about the dinner.
She acknowledged there was a dinner. She did vomit at
the dinner table, but denied calling a celebration dinner or kah.
Hearing Charlie Handelson call it a celebration dinner, anticipate this

(01:21:04):
witness would indicate that it was referred to as a
celebration dinner.

Speaker 10 (01:21:12):
H kah, kah kah.

Speaker 6 (01:21:44):
This crash problem, it's the same issue, and you you
ruled on this issue.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
It's the same motion, Len.

Speaker 6 (01:21:50):
I'm looking at the line now right, it's capleman. I
believe we find ourselves in the same position. Unless you
have an argument which differentiates television from the celebration dinner.

Speaker 5 (01:22:09):
I think I understand what you mean, Judge. I don't
have any additional argument other than this is offered for impeachment,
not hearsay, not covered by the motion. The appropriate grounds
were laid and as admissible as impeachment.

Speaker 6 (01:22:20):
Do you wish to profit of the celebration dinner by
mister le cost as well?

Speaker 5 (01:22:25):
No, sir, I think my preference at this point, assuming
your ruling will be the same on the celebration dinner,
is to have mister Lacas step off the stand, perceive
with another witness, and revisit this issue after the lunch break.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
Very well, Why do I think that Wendy blurted this
out about a hitman because she she's impulsive and she
wanted to tell somebody she so much. Again, it's it's

(01:23:02):
the Adelson's believe that whatever anything that comes out of
their mouth is to be believed, and they're very comfortable lying.
So if it's someone asked her, she would just deny it.
And who's gonna believe her? Or Jeffery Lacasse. The twitchy,
red nervous comes off maybe as a little neurotic Jeffery

(01:23:24):
Lacasse over her, the cool brandeice magnum cumlatde graduate helps
trafficked women, you know, accomplished woman who's gonna believe her.
They're gonna believe her, right, they think that they always

(01:23:45):
should believe we believed the fact that the great irony
of this is that most people believe Jeffery Lacasse and
no one believes Wendy Adolson's testimony. I mean, I really
get excited now when I find Wendy supporters are Charlie
Adelson supporters are down as supporters, They're like unicorns. I mean,

(01:24:06):
you know, in true crime, I mean almost every single
one of my episodes, especially on my channel, I take
some you know, strong opinions based on extensive research I
do on these cases I cover. You know, I'm happy
to take the opposite side of you know, a pr

(01:24:32):
campaign for a killer. So there's going to be a
lot of killer supporters, but in this case, almost no
one supports the Adelson family. So the irony is the
thing that they thought would protect them has not protected
them at all. They're good name, they're social standing. Their

(01:24:52):
connections go back to the short I just put out
today and the episode that it attaches to. They're very
powerful connect actions that protected them for years and years.
All the things they thought would protect them have not
protected them. But what a disgusting thing To celebrate a
murder or even a natural death. Is so gross, no

(01:25:13):
matter how much you dislike somebody to have to go
out to dinner, I mean, hey, yeah, ye, the callouses
off the charts.

Speaker 6 (01:25:27):
Please bring the jurors back in. You may end your
examination in front of them, and then mister Rashbaum will
have his opportunity. Well, actually, mister rash Bomb, how long
do you believe your cross examination of the witness would
take in front of the jurors.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
I'm a little confused, are you.

Speaker 6 (01:25:45):
The ruling is the impeachment, as the celebration. Dinner is
going to be excluded on the same grounds for now.
If we need to revisit later, we will. But as
to your cross examination that will be taking place in
front of the on the subject matter that's already been covered,
how long do you think that's going to take?

Speaker 3 (01:26:05):
Oh, she's going to stop asking questions.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
This weekness.

Speaker 6 (01:26:08):
By the way, she just indicated she would okay for
the issues that we've dealt with just now prior to
any proffers and sending the jersey.

Speaker 3 (01:26:22):
Yeah, I'm not really sure. You're on probably uh maybe
thirty minutes.

Speaker 6 (01:26:34):
All right, let's bring them back and you can start
your cross We'll take lunch break and then pick up
them there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
So it's interesting, you know, we like to think in
true crime and lawyers often cross on these kind of things.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
We like to think that.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
Murderers are totally rational and everything's going to make total sense,
But sometimes they do thinks impulsively, they do things. I mean,
there's really no good reason to kill somebody, so you know,
they blurred out things just because they want to, you know,
I mean, it doesn't there isn't a real kind of

(01:27:16):
rational you know, we like to I mean, you could say,
why did O. J. Simpson kill Ron Goldman and Nicole
Brown on the same day he was flying flying out
of the city when he knew Lima was going to

(01:27:37):
be there to pick up Why Why.

Speaker 15 (01:27:40):
Did he do that?

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
Because he did because he could he wanted to at
that time. It did. I mean, there isn't you know
this idea of like there are some things that Rashbaund
just cross examine Jeffrey Lcassa on like she's going to
say this to you, yeah, yeah, yeah, is it doesn't

(01:28:02):
always follow this kind of logic of the thing you
think you would do. I mean, is it in the
is it in the realm of is it in the
what i'd call the spectrum of normal human behavior? Yes? Unfortunately,
Like yes, like admitting something that's against your best self,

(01:28:26):
against your self interest, best self interest? Is that on
the is that something that humans do?

Speaker 5 (01:28:34):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
But the things that defense attorneys do, that is when
they put up scenarios that are way off the spectrum
of human behavior, of rational human behavior, and then say
everyone reacts differently, like laughing, smirking during an autopsy, or

(01:28:58):
those are the things that come to mind, or saying
it's all my fault when you had nothing to do
with it, saying that over and over again. We're confessing
to the crime over and over again, under no kind
of circumstances for false confessions, having none of those scenarios

(01:29:21):
for false confession for very few.

Speaker 3 (01:29:26):
You did.

Speaker 6 (01:29:33):
State, having a further direct examination for this witness, you
may cross examine, thank your.

Speaker 3 (01:29:42):
Eyes, professor the cost Good morning, good morning. You met

(01:30:06):
Charlie eagleson one time, right, that's correct. It was a
trip that you and Wendy took down to South Florida
for a day after a spring break with the kids
that she taught.

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
Yeah, we were in a mocholi and then we went
over to Miami. Told at Miami just for the eleventh,
that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
And you had dinner, you said on you had dinner
on March eleventh, twenty fourteen, in a place called Yardbird.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
That's correct.

Speaker 3 (01:30:38):
You recalled Charlie was in his scrubs.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
Don't recall that, but it wasn't surprising me.

Speaker 3 (01:30:44):
And Catherine mcbanawa was at that dinner, right she was.
And I think you said that she was bringing up
stuff about her ex, right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
Not a lot, just a little bit, but she did
bring that up, and I recalled it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:00):
Is it sure?

Speaker 1 (01:31:03):
Tapeball, thanks so much for the supersticker. I appreciate I
appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:12):
I got to say that she was pushing for information
at that dinner from whom from miss Adelson?

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
I don't recall that.

Speaker 5 (01:31:22):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
Was she trying to get miss Adelson to talk about
her ex husband?

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
I don't recall that.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
Do you recall her being a lot of discussion at
the dinner about Professor Markel?

Speaker 2 (01:31:31):
Don't recall a lot, and always came up for a minute.
It came up in the context of Wendy Edlson's book.
Most of it was Charlie talking.

Speaker 3 (01:31:39):
You recall Katie asking questions about how the divorce was going,
how he was treating her, where he was You don't
recall any of that happening at the dinner.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
I do not recall any of that.

Speaker 3 (01:31:53):
The only thing you recall is her saying something about
her ex husband.

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
That's what's stuck out. We've had previous legal proceedings where
I also could not run.

Speaker 4 (01:32:00):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
It's dinner nine years ago. I don't remember a lot
of to tell of it, and as much as it
wasn't long either, it was just.

Speaker 3 (01:32:06):
An Isn't it likely that she was talking about her
ex husband and her problems because there was talk about exes?

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
I mean, that's pure speculation on my part. I don't work.
I do recall some other things we spoke about, but
I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about them
or not. Then in of your client, they were so
I'm in my head trying to figure out how much
space was there for other stuff. As I previously testify,
most of it was Charlie telling us stories kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:32:36):
But Katie was clearly wanting to bring up the topic,
as you said, about her family situation.

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
Correct. I'm talking about two or three sentences here. I
only recalled that in retrospect because there was a murder
and I thought, oh geez.

Speaker 3 (01:32:53):
And it was important enough for you to for miss
Kapleman ask you about that, right, okay, yeah, right, So
you remember her talking about her family situation.

Speaker 2 (01:33:02):
Yeah, I also remember Charlie talking about a party hit
recently attended, as a few other random things.

Speaker 3 (01:33:06):
Fair Enough, I didn't ask, with all due respect, I
didn't ask you that you stick with the family situation. Okay, So,
Catherine mcbannon, what was talking about her family situation?

Speaker 5 (01:33:16):
Correct?

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
For two or three sentences, she mentioned that Sefredo Garcia,
not by name, and the tensions with him.

Speaker 3 (01:33:27):
Yes, you see that Charlie talked in the hot tub
at the pool about having connections to the criminal element.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
That's what your testimony was, right, Yes, starting with my
initial statement to TPD.

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
Yes, sir, and you're talking about your statement to TPD
after the murder, right three days after the murder, and
after you thought Wendy Aedolson was trying to frame you
for the murder.

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
Right, I didn't think that in that interview. Okay, give
me some time to process.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
You were aware that you were called in as a
suspect for the murder, right, yes, okay? And after that
point in time is when you gave that statement to
TPD regarding what mister Adelson said, Just.

Speaker 5 (01:34:23):
Yes or no?

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
After I was called into the police station. Yes, yeah,
that's what I gave my statement at the police station.

Speaker 15 (01:34:30):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:34:30):
What I'm making clear is it's not like you had
dinner and we're in a hot tub with Charlie Aedelson
and you went back to Tallahassee and gave the statement.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
Then, right, I'm gonna have no reason to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:43):
I understand that professional costs. I'm just trying to make
it clear for the jury when you gave TPD this statement. Yeah,
And the answer is you gave him the statement after
the murder and after you were called in as a
suspect on that murder.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
That's correct.

Speaker 6 (01:34:56):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:34:57):
Now do you.

Speaker 3 (01:34:58):
Recall a texting Charlie Edelson after you met with him.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
I texted mister Adelson one time.

Speaker 3 (01:35:06):
Yes, okay, And do you recall saying to him, Hey, Charlie,
it's Jeff as in Wendy and Jeff hey man. Thanks
for your hospitality the other night. Sorry about the clusterfuck
with the cab. It was great to finally meet you.
I can tell how proud you are of your sister.
I am two. She's really one in a million. Take care, dude,
and look forward to seeing you again sometime soon. Do

(01:35:29):
you recall texting him.

Speaker 2 (01:35:30):
That I do recall texting him that, okay, you like
hanging out with the criminal element? It was my new
girlfriend's brother who she was very close with. I've been
dating Wendy seriously for twelve days. I didn't think it
was right to give a I was probe rather than honest.
Let's put it that way. I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:35:50):
Right, I mean, what do you what?

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
This is what Anna's testimony looks like. He doesn't have
to sit back and strategize his answer. It's coming up,
so naturally. He's open. He's unmovable on the things that
he remembers.

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
Let me ask the question again, do you like hanging
out with the criminal element.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
Uh no, I don't do that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
Did Charlie Edelson text you or did you text him?

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
I texted him. I can't remember if that was solicited
by Wendy Adelson or not, but I texted him.

Speaker 3 (01:36:29):
It wasn't solicited by Charlie Aedelson, right.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
No, we never spoke again though.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
Actually he texted you back and he said it was
great seeing you. I'm glad you made your flight. Hopefully
we can all hang out soon.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
I mean to connect. This is Donna, Charle. Everything around
that TV is so damning for Donna, because you have
Donna's statement the TV is about five No TVs were
even closed up five thousand dollars at that time, and

(01:37:08):
then you have Donna making the appointment, and someone was
just saying bringing the Georgia suit of press harder about
the geek squad, but even more so. And Georgia does press.
And Wendy can't remember anything about her eighteen minute conversation
with Charlie Adelson where she says she was talking to

(01:37:31):
Charlie Adelson about whether she should buy a new TV.
This makes me laugh so hard. So the geek squad
has told her that they can't repair it. So Weddy
said she had to talk to Charlie before she decided.

Speaker 3 (01:37:46):
What to do.

Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
They said it would cost more to that they didn't
repair it, and then she'd have to replace it. What
is an eighteen minute conversation? Then about would you need
to talk for eighteen minutes? They say, I can't repair it?
What should I do? It's not like an old I mean,

(01:38:08):
I can understand if it were like from the fifties,
and maybe you could find some I don't know, like
repair man who has this specialty to repair really old things,
because it's somehow special and really well made. But it's
just like what Jeffrey la Cast describes as a TV
you'd find in a dorm room.

Speaker 3 (01:38:36):
Now, you testified that when he was a wreck. Well
I went second, Sorry, one moment you're on, I've lost
my plate.

Speaker 1 (01:38:54):
Yeah, he never has this papers organized or he never
has what he needs found in this trial? Forward?

Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
All right, first filings. You testified about some of these
divorced filings undirect correct, Yes, and that Wendy. You testified
that Wendy was a wreck about him, right, Yes, that's

(01:39:30):
not what you thought in the spring of twenty fourteen.

Speaker 5 (01:39:32):
Though, was it?

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
You're questioning whether he's what I thought. In spring of
twenty fourteen, I noticed repeatedly her reacting to emotions and
litigation and getting very very upset. I'm not saying there
was never any good times, but she was very upset

(01:39:59):
when he filed something. Do you recall.

Speaker 3 (01:40:17):
Sending an email to Wendy Agleson in March twenty seventh
of twenty fourteen where you tell her that she's adapting,
adapting really well to unpleasant circumstances and that she needs
to give herself more credit.

Speaker 2 (01:40:35):
That sounds familiar. I would say it got increasingly worse March, April, May,
June in terms of reactions to the entire situation. But
I know I was sending that email, Yes, trying to
encourage my girlfriend at the time.

Speaker 3 (01:40:48):
Yes, So really it got worse filings in March, April
and June.

Speaker 2 (01:40:54):
No, I don't know when the last filing was. Her
reactions not just to filings but the entire situation. Let
me quarify it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:02):
Hold on a second. Would it surprise you that there
weren't any filings being May or June.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
No, I'm aware of that.

Speaker 3 (01:41:09):
Wouldn't surprise you that there's been testimony in this courtroom
that actually things got a.

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
Little better, Wendy's status didn't get better my observations, and
Wendy saw her get spiraling downward in the time period,
is what I was trying to refer to.

Speaker 3 (01:41:22):
Do you recall that in the spring summer of twenty fourteen,
Professor Markel asked Wendy's parents to babysit for him.

Speaker 2 (01:41:31):
I didn't know about that, or I don't recall it.
If I didn't, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:41:34):
Sure you did.

Speaker 1 (01:41:38):
Where is he pulling that from? Is there evidence of that?
Is anybody seeing besides Wendy's testimony with the banana bread
that Donna gave him a hug and made him banana
bread that Dan Markel couldn't eat, and that Dan Markel
asked a babysit down to the babysit. I'd love to

(01:42:03):
know the details of the filing Dan Markelle's filing where
he asked that Donna Edelson being only allowed supervised visits
with her grandchildren because she was making such disparaging remarks
about Dan Markel. When that filing was compared to when
this alleged babysitting event, Donna's babysitting and Wendy describes it

(01:42:32):
as the last time Donna saw Dan Markel. She gave
him a hug, made him banana bread, and he asked
her to babysit. I mean, am I confusing things? Let
me know if you know anything about the timeline there.

Speaker 3 (01:43:03):
Now, do you recall telling law enforcement that your impression
was that Professor Markel's filing was going to fail?

Speaker 2 (01:43:16):
Yes? I was repeating things I had heard from Wendy Andelson.
So much of that content that was I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:43:24):
Sure, I'm just asking you for yes or no question. Okay,
let me follow up of where you get that information.

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
Okay, Okay, I know you haven't yes, yes, Yes, I
hope pleased that yes.

Speaker 6 (01:43:33):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:43:34):
So you told the police that Wendy wasn't concerned about
Professor Markel succeeding.

Speaker 2 (01:43:43):
No, she was highly anxious. It's just highly anxious.

Speaker 3 (01:43:49):
Did she think that the motion was going to be granted?

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
I don't think she knew. I think that's what caused
the anxiety.

Speaker 3 (01:43:54):
Didn't you tell law enforcement that your impression was that
Professor mark Kell's motion was going to fail?

Speaker 2 (01:44:02):
Id enforcement that?

Speaker 6 (01:44:03):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:44:04):
And didn't you just tell the jury that that impression
came from Wendy Agleson.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
Well, from my interactions with her and partially in my
own opinion to clarify, but yes, that's true. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:44:16):
You also told law enforcement that everyone in the legal
community agreed with that assessment.

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
I didn't speak to everyone in the legal community.

Speaker 3 (01:44:25):
Well, let's read your interview then, unless if it refreshes
your recollection one moment you're having, you don't call it

(01:44:48):
recall being recorded where you said, and I quote, everyone
in the legal community agreed with that assessment at two
o'clock on seven twenty three, fourteen interview Part one, at
thirty four to thirty five in the interview, you don't
recall saying that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Can you give me the date in an interview again, please.

Speaker 3 (01:45:10):
Seven twenty three, twenty fourteen interview Part one and three
six twenty fifteen, you reiterated it at thirty four minutes
and thirty five seconds into the recording. You don't recall
saying that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:25):
Vaguely. I do recall saying something like that, I'm a
non lawyer trying to figure out this situation. Any different
messages from different people.

Speaker 3 (01:45:35):
I have no further questions right now.

Speaker 5 (01:45:36):
You're honored at the time you were in the hot
tub with the defendant, did you know that he was
a criminal element? I mean, okay, let me refrain. Yeah,

(01:45:57):
did you know he was conspiring to commit the mo
of Dan Mark hel I had no idea, all right.
And when you were at dinner with he and Katherine mcmanawa,
did you know that she was conspiring to commit the
murder of Dan Markhut I had no idea. So you
didn't know when you were in the hot tub that
you were hanging out with a criminal element in that regard.
Nothing further, Maybe at some point.

Speaker 6 (01:46:25):
Members of the jury were going to take our lunch break.
At this point, once again, I'm going to remind you
not to discuss the carries with.

Speaker 1 (01:46:32):
From each other or anyone else, and I'm going to
take a little break myself. I think the best thing
to play right here is an oldie but goodie. Maybe
many of you haven't seen this before, but here's an
actual advertisement from the Edleson Institute. Please enjoy.

Speaker 16 (01:46:57):
What I enjoyed most about our prier is restoring a
person's smile that often changes their personality and gives them
a more positive outlook on life. Our practice uses the
most modern dental technology from rotary endedonics, computer generated ceramic restorations,

(01:47:17):
digital radiographs, intraoral photography, and of course we use nitrous
oxide and oral sedation for the highest level of patient
comfort and relaxation.

Speaker 15 (01:47:35):
My name is doctor Charlie Aedelson and I am a
paridonist owner and co partner with my father, doctor Harvey Aedelson,
who's a cosmetic dentist. What I love about what I
do is being able to restore people's smiles and change

(01:47:56):
the way they chew, change the way they live, and
change their self esteem and how they think about themselves
on a daily basis. When a patient comes to my office,
they're being treated like family, and it's also being a
team approach where the hygienists, the cosmetic dentists, and the

(01:48:19):
parodontus are all working together to give them the optimal result.

Speaker 8 (01:48:26):
My name is Jennifer Ketchill.

Speaker 1 (01:48:27):
I've been coming here for about ten years.

Speaker 8 (01:48:29):
My experiences have been very positive. The staff is very professional.
I came here ten years ago to get my veneers
put on and I have been absolutely thrilled with results,
and I can't say how wonderful and professional the staff
has just been. They've been really, really caring and just amazing.

(01:48:51):
I would definitely recommend this place to others. I have
actually recommended for people to come here. My husband has
come here as well.

Speaker 2 (01:48:59):
My name is Clint Stevenson.

Speaker 4 (01:49:00):
I've been coming to doth Radelson's office for about five
and a half years now.

Speaker 2 (01:49:03):
I've been phenomenal.

Speaker 4 (01:49:04):
I'm never a big fan of the dentist, but ever
since I got introduced to this office, great staff, very friendly,
and I always feel like I'm taking care of well,
very professional. Every time I come here, I feel like
you get the foremost from their attention from the staff,
and doth Raedelson is himself as well, so it's a
great experience.

Speaker 2 (01:49:20):
Every time I come. I look forward to it as well.
I highly recommend him.

Speaker 1 (01:49:27):
It looks like a hostage video, doesn't it. How much
did he oh to the Adolson Institute so it's wanted
to see the pictures of Donna and their scrubs? How
much did he oached for to the Adelson Institute to
do that? Ad people are very friendly here. Now on
This American Life with Iraq lass my dentists turned out

(01:49:51):
to be murderers. Okay, so Jeffrey Lacas gets brought back
in pulled back in because the dream team of Sarah
Dugan and Georgia Capolman never give up. And I assume
he's brought back as a rebuttal witness to Wendy Aedelson.

(01:50:13):
So take a listen. Here's Wendy leaving the stand.

Speaker 6 (01:50:19):
Please call your next onness.

Speaker 1 (01:50:21):
Has anyone who heard Charlie Edelson on the jail Husk
tapes telling a story to Donna that sounds like Donna
doesn't believe about him smiling at a girl that turns
out to be Wendy. There's always this sort of unspoken
element of incest between Wendy and Charlie. How he was

(01:50:44):
smiling and flirting with this girl, was smiling and it
turned out to be Wendy hadn't seen her in so long,
thought he was someone in the gallery that was interested
in him. I Donna sounds like she doesn't believe it
or doesn't want to talk about it. What are people's
thoughts on that story? Is that something he just made
up for sympathy or is it a real story or what?

(01:51:06):
Or is it just lives And there's Wendy goes with her.
Her advocate was also seen in another very famous murder
for higher trial and Dallassie.

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
Her name?

Speaker 1 (01:51:36):
What's her name? This woman again? On one second, let
me show you who I'm talking about. Denise Williams. Is
this woman's name helped me out? Honeycut? Thank you? Who

(01:52:04):
got it? Morgan Honeycut, Thank you a few people. Debbie Gibbie,
you win the prize. Kyle, thank you. I knew she
had an unusual last name.

Speaker 5 (01:52:33):
All right, mister Lapaz, I want to take you back
to July thirteenth, twenty fourteen. This is going to be
the Sunday before the homicide that we're here about. Did
you see Wendy Adelson that evening at her residence here
in Tallahassee.

Speaker 2 (01:52:50):
Yes, after we returned from dinner in a movie and
went back to her residence. Yes, ma'am, all right.

Speaker 5 (01:52:54):
And at some point that evening did the issue of
the relocation battle that was going on back in the
summer of twenty thirteen come up?

Speaker 2 (01:53:03):
It did?

Speaker 5 (01:53:04):
And is that the issue we've already touched on, which
has to do with her wanting to move to South
Florida with the children and filing a petition to do
so in the courts.

Speaker 2 (01:53:14):
That's right, and by extension the issue of being stuck
in Tallahasse.

Speaker 5 (01:53:18):
Okay, And while discussing that issue, did miss Adelson make
some statements to you about her brother Charlie? She did,
and what were those statements?

Speaker 2 (01:53:29):
She asked to speak to me confidentially, in a very
serious tone of voice, told me that Charlie had investigated
all possible options to take care of the problem of
Danny Markel, including hiring a hitman, which would cost about
fifteen thousand dollars. And I later revised that and thought
maybe it was fifty thousand dollars, but the dollar malt

(01:53:52):
was the only thing in question. She definitely said that
Charles Adelson had looked into hiring a hitman to kill
Danny Markau.

Speaker 5 (01:53:59):
And when did you say mister Adelson had looked into
hiring a hit man.

Speaker 2 (01:54:03):
When the relocation was denied the previous summer?

Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
Okay, all right, so we know that the hit man
wasn't fifty thousand dollars. And I don't think any hit
man would kill someone for fifty thousand dollars. Maybe not
not in Miami, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:54:26):
I doubt it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:27):
It would be very hard to find someone who would
kill someone for fifty thousand dollars, such a low from
the Adelson family, at least, such a rich family. So
it's a little bit like the way psychopaths lide. They
tell some truth and some some lies, all mixed in.

(01:54:47):
So it could have been fifteen. She could have told
him fifteen thousand dollars, just to make it unbelievable sounding.

Speaker 5 (01:54:59):
And the dollar amount, so she either said fifteen or
fifty or not sure which that's correct.

Speaker 2 (01:55:06):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:55:07):
And when she said this, what was her demeanor like,
she's very serious, all right, So definitely not the to
be confused with the TV joke.

Speaker 2 (01:55:18):
No, I'd heard that joke repeatedly. I knew that joke.
This was something very different. This was chilling, a little scary.
Made my stomach flip. I found it disturbing. The joke
was said in a light hearted manner when and this
was not said in that way. This was serious and
said confidentially, all.

Speaker 5 (01:55:36):
Right, thank you, And I want to well, okay, I
think we should go from there to the next day,
just going to be July fourteenth, twenty fourteen, the Monday
before the murder. Yes, ma'am, did you see Wendy Adelson
on that day?

Speaker 2 (01:55:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55:57):
She.

Speaker 2 (01:55:58):
I can't remember if I contacted her, if she caught
acted me, but she was excited to see me, and
I wasn't so sure about that because the night before
we'd had an awkward conversation at the conclusion of that
night and I told her that she didn't want to
do this anymore, that she could just send me a
text and I wouldn't, you know, take any offense. We
would just you know, break up. So I didn't get
that text. Instead, I talked to Wendy Aelsen and she

(01:56:20):
was excited to see me.

Speaker 5 (01:56:22):
All right, so what did you do?

Speaker 15 (01:56:24):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:56:25):
Then she needed to call me back, and it went
from enthusiastic her enthusiasm about seeing me too. Let's just
meet at yoga tonight. Go in separate cars. So there
was a real shift in about thirty minutes.

Speaker 5 (01:56:38):
Did you go to yoga?

Speaker 2 (01:56:39):
We did. We went to yoga right.

Speaker 5 (01:56:41):
And after yoga, was there a discussion about your relationship
and the status of your relationship?

Speaker 2 (01:56:48):
Yeah, a very brief one. I mean, yoga's not a
great place to talk obviously, So while we were sitting there,
she seemed very cold, and I kind of got the
feeling that it was over. This was it. So as
we walked to the car, I tried to talk to
her about the relationship and that didn't go well, and
so I just kind of put up my hands and

(01:57:10):
walked away. You know, it's sad that this was it
all right?

Speaker 5 (01:57:14):
And as you walked away, was that the end? Or
was there more conversation? After you began to.

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
Walk walk she called out to me and I walked
back towards her, and she was deeply curious. Well, during
that we back up slightly. During that conversation, she didn't
have any interest in spending any time with me for
the rest of the week. So it kind of confirmed, like,
you know, this is over. But then when she called

(01:57:42):
me back, she had a series of detail questions about
what I would be doing on Friday.

Speaker 5 (01:57:48):
And Friday is going to be July eighteenth, right, yes,
and that's the date of the homicide.

Speaker 2 (01:57:54):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 5 (01:57:55):
What were her inquiries of you regarding that date?

Speaker 2 (01:57:58):
I had a trip planned to Tennessee. She was aware
that I was planning to leave about eleven am on Friday.
I need to get to Atlanta for an early dinner,
so with traffic, she knew I was departing at eleven
and at the yoga studio in the parking lot, she
had asked if I was still going. If I didn't go,
why not what route I would be taking? Taking a

(01:58:22):
lot of a bizarre amount of interest in that trip
that didn't make sense to me at the time, given
that she didn't want to spend.

Speaker 5 (01:58:29):
Time with me, And how does it make sense to
you now?

Speaker 2 (01:58:33):
Well, if I had left on my trip at the
scheduled time that she had known about for quite a while,
I would have driven pretty close to Danny Markel's house
about the same time at the murder, in a similar
looking car to the suspect vehicle.

Speaker 1 (01:58:51):
This is the most damning test Simony told, just the
most relaxed, truthful way, absolutely devastating, and given that Donna
was in on the planning. He's coming back for Donna's trial,

(01:59:13):
So it's most damning, of course towards Wendy because he's
Wendy's boyfriend. But I mean, you can listen to this
and think that Wendy didn't know that she just drove
by the crime scene up to the crime scene tape
an hour after Markell was murdered, Because it depends on
what lie she's telling either that she was driving by

(01:59:36):
because she drove by Dan Markell's house to come to
terms with the divorce, or that she drove by because
it was a shortcut, or that she drove by because
she didn't have a good sense of direction and that
was the route that she knew how to go on
the way to the liquor store. So she sold three
different stories about why she drove by Dan Markell's house

(01:59:57):
that day and up to the crime scene tape and
then did a three point turn, kind of like another
case we're an accused in. Actually two three point turns,
so pretty interesting and you can see why the defense
works so hard to keep this out devastating.

Speaker 5 (02:00:19):
What type of vehicle did you drive?

Speaker 2 (02:00:21):
I drove a two thousand and four Nissan Sentra that
was silver metallic gray color.

Speaker 5 (02:00:37):
So if you had followed your original plans, you would
have been passing by the Markell residents or nearby there
around the same time as the killers were fleeing.

Speaker 2 (02:00:46):
Yeah, I would have been at Capitol Circle in Thomasville. Sure,
I would have been on the same cell tower. For example.
I think my life could have been pretty complicated had
I taken my original plans.

Speaker 5 (02:00:57):
All right, So you didn't, I guess, take the original plans.

Speaker 2 (02:01:00):
No, I did not. I had made a last moment,
last minute decision the night before to leave Thursday night instead.
I had not informed miss Edelson about that because we
weren't speaking. Actually, no, I don't know that anyone for sure,
that anyone in how it has even Dow I had
changed my plans, just the people at the other end.

Speaker 5 (02:01:19):
All right, So you were actually in Tennessee at the
time of the homicide. I was, And when you were,
we've heard you were called in as a potential suspect
and apparently named by Jane McPherson.

Speaker 2 (02:01:30):
Do you know who that is?

Speaker 15 (02:01:31):
I do?

Speaker 5 (02:01:32):
Who is that?

Speaker 2 (02:01:33):
That was a friend of Wendy Aedilson's and she was
a doctoral student in our program. I had a not
much relationship with her, just to kind of a working relationship.
We'd worked on a couple of projects together. But I
didn't know her very well at all.

Speaker 5 (02:01:47):
But someone that knew that you were had been dating Wendy.

Speaker 2 (02:01:51):
Yeah, I think she was a confidant of Wendy Edelson's,
yes for sure.

Speaker 5 (02:01:55):
Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (02:02:06):
Yeah, I was excluded fairly quickly because the investigators found.

Speaker 1 (02:02:12):
My apologies, let's go back. Sorry about that. I was
just going to look up Jane McPherson on my ex
But that's what that was. See if she's still on here,
if she's left to go to Blue Sky. Yeah, no,

(02:02:34):
she's still on here with a mask.

Speaker 8 (02:02:38):
Here.

Speaker 1 (02:02:38):
Let me show you her. Here she is Jane McPherson
with her mask. That looks a little bit like the
description that Wendy gives of her trafficking characters in her
social worker teacher, activists, scholars, studs, sudden historians. Social work

(02:03:04):
should promote, not violate, human rights views online. Let's see
what she's tweeting about. She hasn't tweeted since May twelve. Oh,

(02:03:26):
here she is Jane McPherson, Social Work Histories of Complicity
and Resistance This evening with a twenty strong international audience
recording to follow. Oh can't wait for that from September
twenty twenty four.

Speaker 2 (02:03:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:03:43):
I don't know if she's I guess she's very infrequently tweets,
but she's still on here. Excited. Okay, there you go,
kind of a violent what are you doing? Okay?

Speaker 5 (02:04:08):
Here we ca Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:04:09):
I think she was a confidant of Wendy Edelson's Yes
for sure.

Speaker 5 (02:04:13):
Okay, So you get called in and were you able
to provide documentation to show that you were in Tennessee
and not in Tallahousee.

Speaker 2 (02:04:24):
Yeah. I was excluded fairly quickly because the investigators found
kmart surveillance footage of me at a kmart in Tennessee
using my credit card with my cell phone showing me
there shortly after the murder, So it was impossible that
I was.

Speaker 1 (02:04:40):
This year, all right?

Speaker 5 (02:04:42):
And then was there also some similar type coincidences around
the time of the trip that the killers made in June?

Speaker 2 (02:04:54):
Yes, on June sixth, I had a business trip to
Gainesville and I depart started at eleven am on a Friday,
June sixth, which miss Adelson would have known about by March.
So really I take two trips out of Tallahassee in
my car the whole spring and summer semester at both times.

(02:05:16):
Had then try to kill Danny mark out? Okay?

Speaker 5 (02:05:19):
Any further contact with Wendy after the yoga date.

Speaker 2 (02:05:24):
About ten days after the murder, she reached out to
a mutual friend and we had a few phone calls.

Speaker 5 (02:05:29):
And during one of those phone calls, did you learn
about a dinner where Wendy had become ill at the table.

Speaker 2 (02:05:37):
Yes, I didn't learn about that.

Speaker 5 (02:05:39):
And what did you learn about that dinner?

Speaker 2 (02:05:43):
That she went out to dinner with Charlie for what
he called a celebration dinner. He said something to her.
She spontaneously vomited on the table.

Speaker 5 (02:05:52):
And this would have been within how much time after
the homicide?

Speaker 2 (02:05:57):
Within a few weeks?

Speaker 5 (02:05:58):
Was it specified the the celebration was in reference to
Dan Markel's death as opposed to anything else.

Speaker 2 (02:06:06):
Wasn't specified.

Speaker 5 (02:06:09):
But whatever it was, that's the dinner where she vomited.

Speaker 2 (02:06:12):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (02:06:14):
One moment. Please questions.

Speaker 3 (02:06:39):
Us shift gears at a teeny base.

Speaker 2 (02:06:42):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (02:06:46):
When you and miss Adelson were dating, there were occasions
when she would drive right yes. Did she have a
good sense of direction?

Speaker 2 (02:07:01):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:07:05):
You're aware that when she was married to she lived
in Professor Markel. She lived on the house on Trescott right, yes,
And when you were dating Wendy, would she often use
Trescott as a shortcut to get from one place to another?

Speaker 2 (02:07:26):
She used it a few times when I was in
the car. If that's why you're asking, I think that
On June twenty seventh, the day we departed to Gansville
at eleven am on a Friday.

Speaker 3 (02:07:39):
I think you said in one of your interviews that
she would do that at least one hundred times drive
by the house.

Speaker 2 (02:07:46):
That was a figure of speech.

Speaker 3 (02:07:49):
Now you mentioned we'll start with the joke, the bad joke. Yes,
you mentioned this TV joke. How it was lighthearted, bad humor,
certainly in the context of what happened. But it was
a joke.

Speaker 2 (02:08:07):
It was dark humor, I would say, but it was
clearly a joke.

Speaker 3 (02:08:11):
Yes, And do you recall that joke being given at
that Yardbird dinner?

Speaker 2 (02:08:19):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (02:08:21):
Could it have been given at that Yardbird dinner?

Speaker 2 (02:08:24):
It could have, but I don't recall it, And I
actually think I might remember that. I'm sure you've given
what happened.

Speaker 3 (02:08:36):
I think one thing that has been established is you
believe that Wendy Adelson tried to frame you for Professor
Markel's murder.

Speaker 2 (02:08:44):
Right, I'm suspicious that there was an effort made in
that way.

Speaker 1 (02:08:49):
Yes, And so that is such a good way to
answer that. I mean, now, I mean Dan Rashbraund has
tried to make Jeff us an alternate suspect. So if
you don't believe that Charlie Adelson was extorted by Catherine

(02:09:12):
mcbanua and the Latin Kings and then put on a
very reasonable payment plan, you might you might just go
for the idea that Jeffrey Lacas did this, and note
that he was a suspect and that all his testimonies
a lie because he's just so a he's covering one,
he's covering up his crime. Or if you don't go

(02:09:34):
for that, you just don't believe it because he's angry
with Wendy.

Speaker 3 (02:09:41):
That has affected your viewpoint. Correct. Sure, well let's talk
about your viewpoint, and we have to go a little
bit back and repeat a couple of things to put
it in context. So you meet with Charlie Adolson. He
tells you that he's in the uh, he's friends with

(02:10:04):
people in the criminal element. You say, thanks for a
great meeting. Correct, send him a nice text.

Speaker 2 (02:10:14):
The next day I sent him a text. Yes you
don't go to the police. No, I don't go to
the police.

Speaker 6 (02:10:23):
Can you?

Speaker 3 (02:10:24):
Then hear that Charlie's made a joke many times about
this TV being cheaper than hiring a hitman.

Speaker 2 (02:10:34):
Heard the joke twice?

Speaker 3 (02:10:35):
Okay, you don't go to the police.

Speaker 1 (02:10:39):
No.

Speaker 3 (02:10:42):
Then, in June, at a time when Wendy Adelson is
breaking up with you, she sits you down, and she says,
I have to confide the biggest secret in my life
that a year ago, my brother actually looked into hiring

(02:11:04):
a hitman. That's your testimony here today, right, you said
in June, sir, In June, I'm sorry, Yes, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (02:11:12):
In July, okay, in July, excuse me state that I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (02:11:16):
Yeah, I'll do it again.

Speaker 1 (02:11:17):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (02:11:20):
I'll try to keep it lower this time. In July
of two thy fourteen, Yes, about a week before the murder,
when you're breaking up with Wendy Adelson. Four things are
seriously not good.

Speaker 2 (02:11:39):
She sits you down.

Speaker 3 (02:11:40):
She says, Jeffrey, I've got to confide in you. My
brother actually looked into hiring a hitman. That's your testimony
here today.

Speaker 2 (02:11:48):
No, she didn't sit me down. She said it in passing.
And she had a habit of boarding out things that
weren't in her own self interest. But she did do that.
She did make that statement, yes, sir, And it.

Speaker 3 (02:11:59):
Was chilling to you. It was un like the joke
you thought it was real.

Speaker 5 (02:12:04):
It was real.

Speaker 3 (02:12:05):
Yes, did you go to the police? I did not,
and then you break up.

Speaker 2 (02:12:12):
Kind of as she kept strow me along for another
week as you know, mostly yeah, but kind of.

Speaker 3 (02:12:18):
Well, the murder happens and you get called in as
a suspect of the murder, right, and you're upset at
that point.

Speaker 2 (02:12:28):
Yes, I was upset.

Speaker 3 (02:12:30):
And you have a first interview with the police, and
then you have a second interview with the police. Yes,
And during the second interview of the police you talked
solely about Wendy Aedelson.

Speaker 2 (02:12:46):
Yeah. I think that's right. I felt like I needed
to say they needed to look at Wendy Agelson as well.
That was the point of that talk yesterday.

Speaker 3 (02:12:53):
It was the point of that talk. Yes, And you
even you don't mention actually Charlie Edelson at all in
that second you already had done.

Speaker 2 (02:12:59):
So I say, yes, sir, correct.

Speaker 3 (02:13:00):
So that second interview you talked just about Wendy Adelson,
and in fact, you're so uncomfortable in the interview you
tell the police that you see, I'm so uncomfortable, and
detective Ism asked you, why.

Speaker 2 (02:13:13):
Do you recall that it wasn't a detective ism?

Speaker 3 (02:13:15):
Okay, I'm sorry. The detective who was interviewing you asked
you why I don't have to remind me on that. Well,
let me remind you what you said. You said because
it's hard for me because if she would take me
back right now, I would go back to her.

Speaker 2 (02:13:29):
Yeah, I was still under her spell to some degree.

Speaker 13 (02:13:32):
I was.

Speaker 2 (02:13:32):
I would say I was fairly pathetic at that point.
I would acknowledge that.

Speaker 3 (02:13:37):
Yeah, so let me understand this because I want to
make sure I've got it right. I don't want to
put words in your mouth. Wendy Aedelson has told you
that her brother looked into hiring a hit man sometime
in twenty thirteen. You he gets murdered.

Speaker 2 (02:14:04):
He does.

Speaker 3 (02:14:05):
You go to an interview, and during that interview, you're
still thinking about staying with Wendy Agelson. You don't want
to talk badly about her because you still want to
be with her.

Speaker 2 (02:14:18):
You're talking about this July twenty third interview specifically. Yes, yeah,
it only been a week. It was still pretty fresh.
I was still pretty mixed up, that's right.

Speaker 3 (02:14:29):
Okay, Well, let's see how mixed up you were in
jail after that. So then you're clearly broken up at
that point, we can agree.

Speaker 2 (02:14:38):
Right. Actually I would say yes functionally, but I've testified
before at the this atal said, and I had conversations
in August where she behaved as if we were still together,
and we had a conversation that finally ended it initiated
by me. Now practically we were broken up.

Speaker 3 (02:14:55):
You never dated, You never want to date with her again?

Speaker 2 (02:14:57):
Right, I never saw her again?

Speaker 3 (02:14:58):
And then okay, right, fair enough, fair enough. Then she
tells you, according to you, that my client, Charlie Edleson
says that she had a celebration dinner with Charlie and
that the celebration dinner was about the murder of Professor Markel.

Speaker 2 (02:15:20):
I don't recall saying that last part, but that's how
you took it, right. I worried that was the case.
I told the police. And I understanding is Wendy can
see that she threw up out on dinner table.

Speaker 1 (02:15:33):
It is so natural. I mean this Devince lawyers are
really gifted at making people look like they're lying, manipulating
their words, making their memories look faulty. It's something that
drives me crazy turning them around. I mean, this is

(02:15:55):
a nationally broadcast to trial you'd be so nervous. Your
whole life is up for examination and ridicule. Who would
be going to be a witness at a verd of try?
But he's just taking this so well, you know, just
admitting well, I was pretty pathetic. But who is going

(02:16:16):
to break up with someone because of their brother? You're mad?
I mean, has anyone been madly in love? I don't
know out there in the audience and the person had
a sibling that they didn't like or would maybe have
been connected in the criminal element. I mean, come on,
you're like, oh, no, can't date Wendy because of her brother?

(02:16:43):
Head over heels for but not that brother? Never mind?

Speaker 3 (02:16:47):
Do you know that the first time you told the
police that was in March of twenty fifteen.

Speaker 2 (02:16:53):
I do know that.

Speaker 3 (02:16:54):
So what happened in September fourteen, what happened in October fourteen?
What happened in November of fourteen, what happened in December
of fourteen, January of fifteen, February of fifteen, you still
didn't think that was important to tell the police.

Speaker 2 (02:17:11):
I'm happy to answer. I think you deserve an explanation
on that. You may have noticed in my March six
twenty fifteen interview. I'd come in with notes, big pile
of notes. Those notes are written in July of August.
They're written pretty quick after the murder. I didn't come
in right right away, partially because I was scared of

(02:17:31):
your client. I was scared of the repercussions if I
went on the record further about my suspicion. So I
was reluctant to come back in because I was frankly scared.

Speaker 3 (02:17:42):
Oh, I get it.

Speaker 5 (02:17:43):
You were.

Speaker 3 (02:17:44):
You were scared of him in August of fourteen, but
you weren't scared of him in March of twenty fifteen.

Speaker 2 (02:17:50):
I decided to man up. I decided it was a
homicide and needed to man up. That's the decision.

Speaker 5 (02:17:55):
I right.

Speaker 3 (02:17:56):
You weren't scared to tell him that my client had
actually looked to a hit man a year earlier. That
get scared. You could tell him that in July. I
was hold on, sir, let me ask the question fair enough.
In July of twenty fourteen, you told police that Charlie
Edelson you heard, actually looked at hiring a hitman. You

(02:18:19):
weren't scared to tell him that.

Speaker 2 (02:18:21):
I asked for police protection. I was scared.

Speaker 3 (02:18:23):
You told them that in July of two thy and fourteen.
Isn't that correct?

Speaker 2 (02:18:28):
Yes, In the same conversation, I said, can I get
some assurances? Can I get some protection? I have something
I want to tell you. I'm scared to tell you.

Speaker 3 (02:18:35):
But you were too scared to tell him about a
celebration dinner comment, and you waited almost half a year
to tell him.

Speaker 2 (02:18:42):
Well, I did wait half a year to tell them,
but the notes I brought in were written right after
that interview. I also wanted to get my thoughts together
because I thought this day might come, and I wanted
In those first two interviews, there was a lot going on.
It was pretty traumatic, so I wanted to collect my thoughts.
So that's what I was doing, in addition to being
pretty Friday and having to get over that idea.

Speaker 3 (02:19:03):
Isn't it true that those comments never happened, and you're
upset because you believe that this family tried to frame.

Speaker 2 (02:19:10):
You for murder. Everything I'm saying is true.

Speaker 3 (02:19:14):
I'm sure it is. I have a moment you're on
district me.

Speaker 5 (02:19:17):
I'm sure it is.

Speaker 2 (02:19:18):
I try. I have no further comments. Four questions.

Speaker 5 (02:19:40):
Seem like a fine point that I want to make
sure it's crystal clear. When mister Rashbomb was asking you
about the hot tub conversation, mister rashbaumb said that his
client said that he was friends with people in the
criminal elm. Is that exactly what was said?

Speaker 2 (02:20:04):
The word I recall is he had connections and friends
on both sides of the tracks.

Speaker 17 (02:20:08):
Okay, connections to criminals criminals in particularly, there was the
Cuban neighborhood comment that I repeated to the TPD water gotcha.

Speaker 2 (02:20:19):
Actually on July twenty first first interview, I mentioned that comment.

Speaker 6 (02:20:24):
Exactly.

Speaker 5 (02:20:27):
How many pages of notes do you have in reference
to this case.

Speaker 2 (02:20:35):
Like right now or over the last nine years?

Speaker 5 (02:20:38):
I mean kind of over the last nine years.

Speaker 2 (02:20:41):
Yeah. I'm a researcher by training. I'm an analytic person
by nature. So those six months it was pretty obsessive.
I was reviewing every text message, every im writing, writing, writing,
I condesst it down. I think if you watch the videotap,
you would see me bring in three, four or five pages,
But I would say I wrote probably one hundred pages

(02:21:04):
before I came in to see them.

Speaker 5 (02:21:05):
The third time, going through every receipt.

Speaker 1 (02:21:09):
What a shame that none of the witnesses did this
in the last case that we were viewed.

Speaker 5 (02:21:14):
Yes, every detail, yes, partially out of what motivation.

Speaker 2 (02:21:21):
Well, pretty traumatic, So fear was part of it, like
if they can catch the people that did this, I'll
be safe. That was a big piece of it. Also,
this was a brutal murder, and I wanted to see
justice done and I did not want to leave something
sitting on the shelf. If I was in the possession
of something that can help, I wanted to help, and

(02:21:42):
you did.

Speaker 5 (02:21:42):
Isn't it true that you didn't know what was going
to end up being important out of all the nuggets
you dug out of the phone and everywhere else.

Speaker 2 (02:21:49):
No idea. I also told them repeatedly, I hope him
pray this wasn't Wendy and Charlie Edelson, but just in case,
here's the stuff I have.

Speaker 5 (02:21:57):
And mister Rashmaum asked you about why didn't you go
to the police when you learned that mister Adelson had
in fact looked into hiring a hitman. This was this
Just to reiterate the statement was made the Monday before
the murders. That's correct, okay, And that's the statement that
we're Wendy's relating it to you. Yes, all right, so

(02:22:18):
that's going to be in twenty fourteen, yes, okay, And
she's making a statement about something.

Speaker 2 (02:22:23):
That occurred in what year, twenty thirteen?

Speaker 5 (02:22:26):
All right? Why didn't you go to the police with
this information?

Speaker 2 (02:22:30):
Because it was a past tense thing she was reporting.
I did not sense there was a present danger. I
didn't know Hitman had already visited Tala Hassey. I didn't
realize there was an active murder plot.

Speaker 5 (02:22:42):
In hindsight, should you have gone to the police with
this information, yes, one moment police nothing astronomy, right.

Speaker 1 (02:22:59):
Maybe, Okay. That's where I'm gonna leave it for today.
With that, I'm gonna end this episode the way I
usually end these episodes with a victim impact letter. This

(02:23:23):
is from Katherine mcbanua's trial to the Honorable Judge Wheeler.
Dear Sir, I remember when I first heard the news
that Danny had been shot. I was standing at my
kitchen sink watching my napping toddlers sippy cups when the
call came in. In disbelief, I turned around and called

(02:23:48):
my college roommate to say, oh my god, something's happened
to Dan, I think he's dying. The horror of those
moments has only been eclipsed as the true story of
Dan's stalking and murder have come to light, as we
have learned the gruesome, greedy details of his final moments

(02:24:12):
in pain and suffering, murdered solely because he loved his boys,
Link and ben Ben so much. I first met Dan
in nineteen ninety one, during the first weeks of our
freshman year of college at Harvard, where we lived across
the yard from one another. He formed an immediate impression.

(02:24:34):
Sonny happy, charming, a smart, alec nerdy guy who really
couldn't take himself too seriously, yet had every reason to
do so. He was brilliant, and he was the most
personable kid I met that year. We tagged each other
over the course of the next few years. Dan dedicated

(02:24:57):
to the study of law of righteousness injustice, me circling
the same, but more interested in a life working towards
human and civil rights. Summers in Cambridge, Dan gathered friends together,
hanging out in the garden of the house he was
sitting that summer. Marty Perez won't mind, He'd say, stay

(02:25:19):
a little longer, and we'd stay a little while longer,
not wanting to leave his or the evening's golden glow.
A few years later, Dan welcomed me to law school
with the same boundless and enthusiasm. He'd gone a couple
of years ahead of me, and was eager to convince

(02:25:40):
me to try out for a law review, to advise
on course, to introduce me to his friend Steve Justice
Bryer now to debate some convoluted point of law or other.
We'd adventure a bit around campus, and Dan would do

(02:26:01):
his best to dispel my first year in insecurities, to
convince me that not only did I belong there, I
could thrive. And it is this Dan that I miss
the most. The big hearted, generous, most encouraging genius who

(02:26:25):
was convinced that we all had value, that we all
had something worthy of contributing to, not just the academy
but also the world beyond. Always kind, always doing his
best to convince others to believe in themselves as much
as he did. This is the Danny in my mind.

(02:26:46):
I miss him so years down the lawn line. After
I returned from work overseas, Dan and I started catching
up in some of his famous phone calls Annie, he'd say,
you've got to, and he'd go on to try to

(02:27:07):
convince me to reach for my dreams, to write some
article or another, apply to law professorships, to break out
of my single parent shell. Because in that area, Danny
came before me a few years too. His boys are

(02:27:27):
just a couple years older than my own, and my
ex walked out on me just a short while before his,
similarly pursuing a highly contentious custody battle. We commiserated our losses,
compared notes, and were astonished at the sir reality of

(02:27:47):
our situations, and we treasured our babies. I do not
know if I have ever heard anyone treasure their time
with their boys as much as Danny did. He was

(02:28:12):
his old effuse of self to a factor of affinity,
so utterly in love with these two magical creatures he'd
help create. I cannot think of their loss. It is
so great as to be actually completely unimaginable. Similarly, I

(02:28:34):
do not know how Danny's wonderful family continues to bear
this excruciating ordeal and this heartbreaking loss. I missed Dan incredibly.
I didn't discover until years after his death that he'd
considered me a freshman year crush. How blind I was.

(02:28:55):
So sorry, Danny and I have missed his encouragement and
words of wisdom as I have struggled to find my
feet again as a single mom on my own. I
never did manage to hit the academic job market. I
do believe had he not been killed, he would have

(02:29:15):
gotten me there eventually, and I think often of where
he'd be, where we'd all be, had he been allowed
to live. I still cry for him, for his boys,
whom he loves so deeply, and for the collective loss
we all have suffered when I think of what could

(02:29:37):
have been. Sometimes the tears come when I'm at my desk.
I'm sorry. Sometimes the tears come when I'm at my
sink looking out the window, just as I was those
years ago when we first heard the awful news. There
never was, and never will be again, another like him

(02:29:58):
in this world. Respectfully, Yours, Ama, Lee van Breysen, Thanks
Jane for becoming a YouTube member. Enjoy the emojis. That's

(02:30:20):
what I have for today. Please hit the thumbs up
on your way out support. The channel links are in
the description of this episode and every episode. Please check
out my new short in the short section of my
YouTube channel. Support the channel you can become a Patreon

(02:30:42):
member get access to content you won't find anywhere else.
Support the channel via vienmo. Buy me a coffee or
just share this episode. Leave me a comment and please
hit the thumbs up. All right, I'll see you tomorrow,
guys at six, have a great everyone, thanks for listening

(02:31:02):
and watching with me.

Speaker 18 (02:31:20):
Dona, what a speech you're hire?

Speaker 2 (02:31:26):
You got it a murder because.

Speaker 18 (02:31:28):
You wanted to raise your daughter's kids. Tama has he
is just to stop on the way to civilization in
Miami is where all the fancy people are.

Speaker 2 (02:31:45):
The TV is about five.

Speaker 7 (02:31:48):
You can't get away from that.

Speaker 2 (02:31:52):
Toutoe tato uho.

Speaker 5 (02:31:54):
You know the guy you pay me?

Speaker 18 (02:31:57):
Then you can't get away from that. Oh Hodna wha
to stitch your hand? You thought chill was just for
the little people, but now you're so blank. It's with
the locked up proof. Your grandmother is locked down and
you're one way ride to feed on your blue.

Speaker 12 (02:32:31):
Gona.

Speaker 18 (02:32:33):
What to stitch your head? Your family exile from the
social circles.

Speaker 12 (02:32:40):
You swam in.

Speaker 18 (02:32:43):
Le all, No, you never made that banana bread you're
offered to babysit for dance, but you'll soon be make
in license plates and thinking.

Speaker 2 (02:32:54):
Baba could have been.

Speaker 10 (02:32:55):
Oh gonea.

Speaker 12 (02:32:58):
You had to plan a murder, the net, the ball

(02:33:18):
to find the thing, stand at the at the the thing,

(02:34:06):
a whole

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Donna Adelson: The Evidence that Will Bury Her!

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