Donna Adelson Update: Winning is Everything.

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Everyone, Yeah, yourself.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
I don't want to give it to you.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Why why would have to look at that press unders.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
I have to go away, I have to go, I
have to I can't.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Help you also to say please to.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Take the bags.

Speaker 4 (00:36):
Yeah you know that way out?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Sorry, okay, years old.

Speaker 5 (00:41):
You can't.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
I can't wait?

Speaker 5 (00:43):
Can I go? Can't?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'll don't you see we try to help him get home.

Speaker 5 (00:50):
That's terrible.

Speaker 6 (00:54):
Get at that points, okay, we do.

Speaker 7 (01:00):
Please, no, no, do you have any value?

Speaker 8 (01:14):
You take it off.

Speaker 5 (01:31):
You are listening to the ROBERTA. Glass True Crime Report,
putting the true back in true crime from New York City.

Speaker 9 (01:45):
ROBERTA.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
Glass is now on the record.

Speaker 5 (02:12):
Oh okay, how is everybody?

Speaker 9 (02:19):
Hello?

Speaker 5 (02:20):
Tater Bug? Hello me me Chewye boy? How is everybody doing? Riverdale?
Pilate's nice to see you. Forensic are in? Gangs are
all here or some of the gangs here. I can't
say all year, some of the gangs here? Hello, Hello, Hello,

(02:44):
Hi walk Away, Renee, Hi, Carmen. So I want to
give an update on Donna Adelson. And you know I
forget that when I wrote to an episode, sometimes the
only thing people are going to see is maybe the

(03:06):
title or they're going to just watch a little bit
of it. So yesterday's episode, I played a clip of
lawyer Tim Jensen Jansen excuse me, saying talking about a
rumor that he heard that Donna Adelson was offered a

(03:29):
plea deal if she she would do no time, which
seemed odd to me, no time if she gave up Wendy,
and she refused, And I reported on it because I
thought it was a really interesting window to talk about
Donna Aedelson's psychology. Now, of course, we have a denial

(03:58):
from the state's attorney, Jack Campbell saying this was never done,
never offered, so totally made up, and so let's get
into that. But am I surprised, No, But I talked
about it because I was more surprised by the community saying,

(04:19):
you know, I think people would say, well, Katie mcmanawah
was offered total immunity, But that's a different time in
the case when they were Adelson. None of the Atolsens
had been arrested at that point, and they needed information
on the Atolsens, or they felt they needed information on
the Atolsens to really solidify the case against them. And

(04:43):
we still don't have a case against We don't have
an indictment against Wendy or Harvey, so that makes more sense.
But for Donna to give up Wendy, I thought, you know,

(05:04):
it would make me think that they really think that
Wendy's the catalyst. And when I talked to Ruth Markel,
she was the one who got me interested in this case.
She feels Donna Aedelson she's I believe in that interview.
My memory of it is that she calls her the conductor,

(05:26):
and everyone's dancing to her tunes, so she feels that
Donna is really the one that really got this murder,
is behind this murder, so the one that really got
this moving. To me, I see them all as a
they're so ameshed, with all their needs so perfectly ameshed.

(05:50):
And what I'm talking about is Charlie, Donna, and Wendy.
And we'll get to that in a minute. That it's
hard to say who's the I mean, to me, it
seems like did Wendy do a lot of the planning.
I mean, it depends on how you say make it happen.

(06:12):
It's a little bit more complicated. Obviously this was all
to Wendy's benefit, and I believe that if Wendy didn't
know about I don't believe that this could have gone
down without Wendy knowing about it and okaying it. There's
just no way that you give a gift like this.
And I say that sarcastically because I think that it's

(06:33):
a good metaphor. You give a gift you can't return,
you can't undo, that changes the lives of your children,
not that Wendy and Donna. I think they felt that
the children. This is probably what they told themselves, that
the children were too young to remember their father, but
they're going to miss their father for the rest of
their lives. It's a wound that doesn't heal. And that's

(06:58):
what makes this case so amazing that they all agreed
that to go forward with this, that this was the
best way through. And I'm going to talk a little
bit about the psychology behind that and how Donna Adelson
sees her trial today. But first, let me deal with

(07:18):
this so funny. Let me deal with this local reporting.
So this even made like the local news in Tallahassee.
This rumor got so far that it made the local
news in Tallahassee. So let's take a look at that
and let's take a look at and then we'll take

(07:40):
a look at Jack Campbell's statement that he gave about
ten months ago and another reason why people would believe it.

Speaker 10 (07:49):
In downtown Tallahassee, Donna Adelson's long awaited trial is not
to kick off in just under two weeks. She has
a final pretrial.

Speaker 5 (07:57):
Hearing on Friday.

Speaker 10 (07:58):
But that's not all the developments taking place in this case.
This week, I would like to start with the latest
that you've been dealing with in terms of the Adlson trial.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Pertaining to rumors of a plea deal.

Speaker 6 (08:11):
It's just totally unfounded and untrue. No such flea offer
has been extended.

Speaker 10 (08:15):
State attorney Jack Campbell firmly denying any plea negotiations for
Donna Adelson. Adelson is accused of orchestrating a murder for
higher plot in Tallahassee, which led to the death of
her former son in law, Florida State Professor Dan Markell
in twenty fourteen. Reports that Adelson had been offered a
plea deal of time served if she testified against her

(08:36):
daughter and Markell's ex wife, Wendy Adelson, were first reported on.

Speaker 5 (08:40):
The pog Okay. So let's get to the point where
where he denies it. I didn't really get to the
point where he denies it. That's the more key point
to take this rumor.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
To have any impact on that jury selection.

Speaker 6 (08:53):
Well, that's my concern, and that's why the ethical rules
allow on pretrol publicity for corrections of things like this,
and that's why I so quickly wanted to come out
and correct it.

Speaker 10 (09:04):
I spoke with criminal defense lawyer Dan Pumphrey Jr.

Speaker 5 (09:07):
With that that's interesting. So he thought that a jury
would look at this and say, oh, well, she must
be innocent. Is a rumor that the Agelson's put out.
I mean, clearly it helps Wendy, but I never thought
how it helps Donna. But clearly they feel like it

(09:29):
might help Donna. I mean, you think they're going to
rush out to dispel a rumor that helps them prosecute Dona.
I don't think. So. Maybe maybe you get a super
ethical state's attorney.

Speaker 10 (09:45):
Humphrey law who's been following this case. He doesn't believe
Judge Everett, who's over this case, will let these rumors
have any impact on jury.

Speaker 11 (09:52):
They're going to vet that jury and they're going to
want to make sure on both sides that the plea
negotiations are not going to the panel.

Speaker 10 (10:01):
Cavil says he still expects the case to go to
trial that will begin August nineteenth.

Speaker 6 (10:05):
Obviously, we don't know how long the jury will deliberate,
but I would expect it be done in four weeks.

Speaker 5 (10:12):
Okay, So let's just go to about ten months ago.
So this was September twenty twenty four. Jack Campbell says
State's attorney Jack Campbell willing to negotiate. This is when
Donna Adelson, when rash Baum was left the case or

(10:34):
was removed from the case, depending on how you see
it due to conflicts. He had represented Donna Adelson's son,
Charlie Aedelson, who got a life sentence in this case
for the murder of Dan Markel. So State's attorney Jack
Campbell willing to negotiate in Donna Aedelson's murder prosecution. Let's

(10:55):
take a listen. Can I go back to what he said? Then?

Speaker 2 (11:04):
I think you if he says that, I look forward
to it.

Speaker 11 (11:08):
Once again, there's a reason why clean negotiations are supposed
to be kept confidential, and so I'm not going to
speak gast to it at all.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
There's I can tell you we.

Speaker 11 (11:18):
Probably ninety eight ninety nine percent of the cases its
office handles are resolved through some type of negotiations.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
So we were willing to negotiate and talk. Have no fear.

Speaker 11 (11:32):
Nothing will be done without consultation with the Markel family.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
So there's nothing secret that will be done.

Speaker 11 (11:39):
We don't talk about it because candidly, for negotiations to
go back and forth, the law requires it to be
confidential on both sides. So if he wants to begin negotiations,
I would love to do negotiations. We negotiate on the
overwhelming majority of our cases. I look forward and to
talk it to him about it once again. Miss Kaplman

(12:00):
will be the point on that. But I'm sure I
will be consulted. But there's nothing secret that's going to happen.
If where this would be and I think the fear
of a lot of people watching this interview and my
reading your paper.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
If there was a negotiation, it would all come out
before it was finalized.

Speaker 11 (12:20):
So we would notify the media, the family would know,
and there's no secret deal.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Everything will eventually come out, but.

Speaker 11 (12:29):
It begins it's in earnest through conversations back and forth and.

Speaker 5 (12:32):
So so so, just to give you a little bit
of background in that he thought that the the way
that that the way that the whole thing went down

(12:54):
with Rashbaun, how do I say this, the way the
whole thing went down with rashbound it did not make
the the Tatlahassee court system look good and it costs
the taxpayers a lot of money. Everything was set to
go in that case when Dan Rashbaum had to when

(13:14):
this conflict of interest came up, it should have come
up much earlier, and Judge Everett should have never taken
Dan Rashmaum's word, and Dan Rashmaum should have never given
his word that he had this legal okay, this signed
paper by Charlie Aedelson and other people argue that wouldn't

(13:36):
even be enough to get Other lawyers have argued that
it wouldn't even be enough to get over the issues.
When you have two defendants in a case represented by
the same lawyers, their interests are are conflict. So when
you have these kinds of conflicts. So I think he

(13:59):
came out thinking that it would make his office look
good to say, oh, yeah, we negotiate ninety eight percent
of our cases see we're saving taxpayers money. See, these
things never go to trial. Trials are expensive and time
consuming for taxpayers. Will negotiate in this case, but it's
not going to be done. We're totally open to it.

(14:22):
But like I say, Donna Edelson will never ever take
a plea deal, Okay. And to get into the mindset
of why that is, I think we've heard enough of
Jack Campbell, right, I feel that we've heard enough of him.
Get into the mindset. We only have to look at

(14:43):
some of Donna Adelson's own emails to get into the
mindset of Donna Adelson, where you can listen to the
tapes of the phone conversations between Donna and Charlie Edelson trial.
Everything they do is wonderful, right, very narcissistic worldview. It

(15:10):
wasn't like, gee, we should have done this better. No,
Dan rashfound was perfect. This is the This goes over
and over in Charlie Adelson and Donna Adelson's jailhouse calls.
This is this is the refrain of Charlie Aedelson and
Donna Adelson. Dan rashfound was perfect. You were a fantastic witness,

(15:32):
Charlie Aedelson on this dand let me tell you, I
just recently reviewed those just privately myself. His testimony, he
was the most arrogant, unlikable, unbelievable witness. He didn't get
publicly tripped up in a way. There wasn't any big

(15:55):
goose bumpy moment where you go, oh, you know, you're
caught kind of thing in cross But he knew his
case too well, and it looked like exactly what I
think he did, which is he tailored his story to
the evidence, to the evidence in the case, and he

(16:17):
knew the evidence, like had ao encyclopedic memory of all
the evidence in the case and could call it up
right if you experienced it and were there. There's no
need to have that kind of view of all the
evidence in your case, like I said it here and
blah blah blah blah blah. You know what you said,

(16:40):
you know what you did. And there's just it was
too rehearsed. I mean, he looked like he had memorized
a script and was just going through it. So but
the way that Donna Adolsen and the Adolson family see

(17:04):
the court system is so much as the way they
see life. It's a game to be one winning to
the Adolson family is everything they cannot lose. And that's
so much about how this whole murder progressed is that
they could not stand the thought of losing to Dan Markel.

(17:27):
Anything and any kind of accommodation to dan Markel's needs
was seen as a loss. So they could not give
an inch, and so they tried. They thought they could
buy him off, and when they realized that they couldn't

(17:48):
do that for various reasons, then they thought that maybe, uh,
you know. And at the same time, they're thinking that
Wendy can enact a campaign of psychological torture on Dan
marcol by baptizing the kids. And let's take a look

(18:11):
at some of those emails, starting with that one first
dressing up the kids in Hitler youth outfits. But the
point is is we're at war and we will win.
And so much of the way that they taught those

(18:31):
kids was be first in your class, get the most money,
have the most stuff, being part of the winning social class.
And that's what's so interesting. One of the elements of
this case to me is here a family that felt

(18:53):
that they were so entitled that they could buy poor people,
buy off poor peace people to do their bidding to
do the rich people's bidding, rich family's bidding, and that
their connections would keep them from ever having to face

(19:19):
the consequences for what they did. They would be protected
by who they knew in their social class, and that
if any of these poor people talked that no one
would beleave them next to the Adelson family, that everyone
book should believe were from the good side of the tracks.
Look at all the money. Yeah, we're a dentist. My

(19:41):
husband's a dentist. I work in the office. I'm a
domestic coordinator, domestic coordinata. I have three kids. I'm a grandmother,
a dedicated grandmother. You see that with Donna Adels When

(20:01):
she talks to the undercover, the first thing she talks
about is her grandchildren. Let's take a look at the
way that she uses her status and persona with this
undercover before we go into the and we'll get into
the emails, Let's take a listen. So first thing out

(20:22):
is her grandchildren. This is the bump call. The undercover
has said that they need she needs to pay up
to take care of Luis Rivera in prison, and the
way they're taking care of Sigfredo. He's given him, given

(20:48):
Donna a picture of a paper article from a paper
about Dan Markel's murder of five thousand dollars on it,
he's texted her Kay and Donna and it sent Donna
and Charlie and Katherine mcmanula all talking, which was the point,
which is why it's called the bump. Sort of bumped

(21:09):
them to get them to start talking, to create evidence
against themselves in their case.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Whoa, this is it's just Sammy standing. Okay. My grandchildren
had my phone.

Speaker 12 (21:27):
Before, so.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
I yes, yes, my phone before, so that's stress of it.

Speaker 12 (21:39):
And told okay, left the message on my on my voicemail.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Right, No, this is my problem. You approached me on
the Holton Road.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
You're handed me an article from the newspaper, but that's
my ext son in law.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
You told me I need to call you and help
your friends who live in prison.

Speaker 5 (22:06):
Now.

Speaker 13 (22:06):
At the time you did that, I didn't understand what
you were talking about. I didn't call you back. Then
you mail me a threatening leisure.

Speaker 11 (22:18):
Ben.

Speaker 5 (22:19):
I love the recap by Donna. Then we meet on
Alden Road, not on another road. Not to confuse me
with the other people that you might be that you
might be trying to get money from to help your
other They're homing out in prison. I'm the one on
Alden Road, Missus Adelson. What were the grandchildren? Sorry for

(22:42):
the delay in calling.

Speaker 13 (22:43):
Gend me a text message to my phone and says,
I'm not taking you seriously.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
So I am taking you and I really want you
to listen to me.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
I have to tell you, I mean, this is important.

Speaker 13 (23:02):
I have been so stressed out. I have spoken to
ten or twelve people who are close friends of mine,
telling them about this and basically picking their brains and
asking them what I should do.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Because I don't.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
Know your friend who is in jail.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
You mentioned the name.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
I don't even know what's a name. I never supposed
to him. I don't know what he looks like.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
I can never meet him.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
I'm sorry your friends in jail, but I don't know.

Speaker 5 (23:37):
She doesn't know what he looks like like. She hasn't
seen the articles on Dan Markel's murder. She hasn't been
keeping up with the murder of her ex son in law. Strangely,
she's not interested in following that story. Someone that used
to be part of your family gets murdered in their driveway,

(24:00):
you know, you're not wondering you did it. You're not
looking at who's getting arrested. I don't know what he
looks like. It's another great part of this too with me.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
You know, you know exactly what it has to do
with Do you know.

Speaker 5 (24:20):
To me?

Speaker 3 (24:21):
You got you just got You just gotta listen to me,
you need, you gotta.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Who this person looks like, what their name is, something,
because I know there's a big reward out there and
if you need money for your friends, that's the way
it gets. I mean, I'm asking nicely. I don't know
who he is. I am out of the loop.

Speaker 5 (24:45):
It is not me.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
If I can help, I will help. I mean, that's
what it's like.

Speaker 12 (24:52):
I just like I told you, listen to me, just
like I told you that day. We know what you
know that that your family had a problem up north.
We know that that Palla was taking care of about
a year and a half, two years ago, and we
know that Katie has been taking care of it, has
been taking care.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Of me now.

Speaker 12 (25:11):
Now my brother, my brother in jail, he we weren't
brower together. He told me the whole thing, and he
hasn't been taken care of. You know now, we're all,
this is being asked for.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
His five five K, says all we're asking for.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
It was five K, and.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
He told me everything, and I know everything. I know
who's involved.

Speaker 12 (25:35):
I know everything, and I'll get a one hundred K
for myself. You know, I asked to send a five K.
Everybody knows what's going on.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
I don't need to know. You're saying everyone knows. I
know I lost my ex son in law. I did
not have anything to do with it. That's why I said,
ask him what that's what?

Speaker 3 (25:59):
That's not that.

Speaker 5 (26:01):
I didn't have anything to do with this. You would
be so angry someone accused you if you really didn't
have anything to do with it. I'm not taking part
in any murder, into discussion, going to the police if
you if you know more, I'm turning you in immediately.

(26:27):
I'm not negotiating on a call like this, and wait till,
wait till we get there. That's why.

Speaker 12 (26:34):
Everything when we were in jail, everything and who was involved.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
I know everything. Well I don't. That's the problem. I'm
telling you it's not me. It's not me. I am
having your aggrogation.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
A year and a half of aggibation over there, my daughter,
my grandchildren.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
It is not me.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
And when I asked my friends, what do they think the.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Description of you?

Speaker 5 (27:06):
Because this is my favorite part. So when I asked
my friends down at the country club, did you notice
her voice is a little different. There's like the distressed donna,
the donna the talks like very distressed. And this is
the one the talks at the top of her her mouth,

(27:28):
you know, not the down in the bottom of her throat,
the distressed donna. This is the one that missus Aedelson. Yes,
it's not me. It's not me. So when I showed
my friends at the country club, when I passed around
your your your piece of paper at the country club

(27:51):
after tennis, they said, maybe this guy should get his
They gave me a very good suggestion. They said, maybe
you could get a description. So maybe they have the
wrong person, the wrong Donna Aedelson who murdered her son
in law, who also was named Dan Marcel in the
same manner. Oh, I mean, what are they talking about?

(28:16):
Get a description? But what does he think that he's wrong?
That he's looking for somebody else? Some other woman connected
to named Donna Adelson connected to this murder, and a
Katie oh that doesn't he never says Katie. He says

(28:39):
her son's girlfriend, ex girlfriend. I mean, I mean, what
a bunch of Kawinki thinks? How how? I mean, in
what world could this be the wrong person? I mean
maybe they just have the wrong description. So out to lunch,

(29:03):
I don't know who it wasn't me, I mean just
when ike to you and you notice that all her,
all the language around this murder is very soft and minimizing.
I lost my son in law, like like maybe like you,

(29:24):
just like it's almost like it's she's describing a natural death,
and the person that caused this very vague, not the
person that murdered my ex son in law that put
a gun to his head. If someone accuses you of

(29:48):
something like this and you're not in it, you'd be
so furious. You would not be sitting on the phone
into discussion, negotiating and pleading and and hoping that they
might believe that you're not involved. You'd be telling them
I'm not involved, it's not me. It's not me. Really, really,

(30:11):
you got the wrong person. It's not me, it's not me. Really.
Staying on the phone, you'd be like, look, dude, I
don't know who told you this, But you got the
wrong person. And you know what, going to the cops
by you think I'm gonna be killing my uh ex
son in law be involved in something is so disgusting.

(30:36):
You'd be so insulted, you'd be so angry. Instead, you
get this nonsense so very much. I want to hear
the end. Re up for the end, guys, or reheard enough.
Wait till you guys catch up with me. A little
bit more, a little bit more. I mean, I don't know,

(30:59):
I don't know. You've done with it. You're done with it? Okay,
Carmen says she's done with it. All right, let's move on.
Let's move on. Thank you, Carmon. Uh, it's just unreal,

(31:28):
so going to people don't like these emails get talked about,
but they're really a treasure trove of if you want
to understand Donna Aedelson's mindset, it is they're super useful
and you can understand why Georgia Kappelman has used them

(31:50):
in court. So this is so I wanted to go, Okay,

(32:12):
this is really interesting right in here. So talking about
how meshed they are. So this is Donna. One of
Donna's emails to Wenday's maybe I'll make it a little
bit bigger for you guys, so she says, So look
at the language here. He says that the children were

(32:33):
three and one at the time this took place. Ben
was three and Lincoln was twenty three months, So one
month shy of one, right, am I right on? Not
so well? One month before his second birthday. So, I mean,

(32:55):
she's already nitpicking his facts. He talks about you both
being well paid professor professors with stable job. Yours is
not a tenure track job, and with the economy as
it is, there is no guarantee it will be there
in the future. His trash talking to various faculty members

(33:16):
about your mental instability has also poisoned your work environment.
Isn't that interesting? It's almost like she recognizes that Wendy
has mental instability, she says, it, almost like it's fact
about you know that mental instability of yours has poisoned
your work environment, making it extremely difficult for you to

(33:38):
continue to function there in the same way as you
previously did. Because, of course, their public persona is everything.
So Donna feels that Wendy's been smeared and her perfect
image has been tainted. Your job also pays your your

(33:59):
half of what your job also pays. You have of
what his job pays, So on your own it's not
feasible to continue to live, even in the home you
are currently renting. You have borrowed a considerable amount of
money from your parents and must repay it for the
future legal fees, moving expenses, etc. My parents have paid

(34:23):
all grocery bills up to this point, for which I
will also have to reaburse them. So here Donna starts
talking in Wendy's voice. So first she's talking as Donna.
You have borrowed a considerable amount of money from your parents.
So again she's talking in Wendy's voice. You have borrowed

(34:47):
a considerable abound of money for your parents and must
repay it for furniture, legal fees, moving expenses, etc. So
she's writing a script.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
This is also very much like we hear.

Speaker 5 (34:58):
These are the rumors. They could not be true, but
we certainly have heard rumors that there's some kind of Possibly,
there might be some kind of script from Donna when
she was looking for favorable testimony that she was writing for,
maybe Drina Burkhart or maybe someone else Bernhardt, excuse me

(35:24):
or someone else that they're going to have to have
a forensic document examiner come in for the state to
look at and verify. So here's Donna writing a script
for Wendy. My parents have paid all grocery bills up

(35:45):
to this point, for which I will also have to
reimburse them. I do not want to dip into the
money from our marital account, as that will have to
go towards supporting my children and for their future. So
when they say that that account was from our marital account,

(36:07):
according to Jibbers, the relocation so that was their name
for Dan Marcel if you don't know their demeaning nickname.
The relation must show that the current arrangement for the
children is deficient from the perspective of the children, and
that reallocation would advance their interests. This is something that

(36:29):
we reviewed numerous times in other papers. Winding review all
that we put together. He's become a religious zealot over
the last few years since the birth of our first son,
taking him to synagogue with him as an infant so
that he can absorb the music and the prayers. He's
done the same with our second son. This is to

(36:49):
show the congregation what an intentive father he is. So
he's not doing it because he is an intendant father.
It is. Again, Donna can only see that from this
perspective of her own behavior as a show an act
and she tells Wendy and another email that we can

(37:09):
be a very good actress when you want to be.
So again, this idea that they do things to aid
their public persona. They do something religious, it's for other people,
so other people will look on them favorably. It couldn't
be that Dan Markel was just religious and wanted to

(37:32):
share his religion with his young children. This is also
to show the congregation what an attentive bother he is.
The fact remains that the children are watched by teenage
children of other congregate kids in this sort of playroom. Well,
how can children that young sit through an entire service,

(37:55):
often in parts of the Hebrew, I think that would
be hard, and are watched by teenage children of other
while the service. Okay, so they're watched by teenage children
in a sort of playroom while the services are going on.
Mister Markel picks one of them up to come back

(38:15):
out at a certain parts of the service to hear
particular hymns and then returns them to the care of
the babysitters. This is done rather than allowing them to
remain home with me. When I protested, he insisted he
always gets his way. I mean, if that is not
the ultimate projection, it's the atal sense that they not

(38:39):
only have to get their way, they insist on it,
and any any negotiation is losing. And to show you
this continues on with this, don't let him go. If
you do your enabling and facilitating. So if you wants

(39:00):
to go on work trips, you're facilitating your stay in Tallahassee.
You'll be showing him that. Anytime he has a meeting
he wants to go, that's fine, you'll watch the boys.
The whole point of relocation for you, and the whole
point of relocation is for you and the children. He
can continue to attend to all the meetings he wants

(39:20):
to go to, and then arrange for frequent and extended
visitation with the boys so he can he can adjust.
We won't adjust, not one iota for that. That will
be losing and winning is everything. So I think that
we're going to see this at her trial. This is

(39:42):
going to be a game to win, and I've always
felt that she will play up her age, play up
her ailments. It's one of the best things she has
going for her, just like Harvey Weinstein did. And it'll
cos me hoping that maybe a juror won't want to

(40:03):
put a seventy five year old woman in prison for
the rest of her life. Grandmother, I think we can
count on that. I think even if she did have
access to hair dye, I don't think she would be
using it. I think, you know, the gray hair is
going to aid her in her act in front of

(40:24):
the jury. I think she's going to take the stand.
Be shocked if she didn't take the stand in this case.
I don't think she can stand the thought of letting
her leaving this all up to her lawyers. He has
a need to control, Okay, So they talked about bribes,
offer him more plane rides, and then she says at

(40:46):
the end of this, I'm too angry. I'm too angry
to write anymore. I'm going to shower, wash my hair,
and get ready for you and the boys to come home.
I love that she says that she's gonna wash her hair.
She has an appointment with her hair washing. So here's
another one. Let me make it a little bit bigger
for you guys, She says, Hi, honey, okay, just like

(41:10):
it says on your necklace. Never never, never give up again.
For Donna to be taking any kind of plea deal
to admit guilt would be to giving up. Edelson family
don't give up. They're not losers. They refuse to lose.
And if they lose anything, it's not anything they did

(41:31):
or anyone on their team. It's everyone else's fault. You
can see a little bit of a difference in Charlie,
who blamed Wendy and Donna before blaming himself for his conviction.
So Donna for writing these kind of emails and for

(41:54):
the TV talk, and Wendy for driving by this scene
of the by the crime scene right after it happened,
about an hour after it happened. It's time for action.
It's time to take control of your life and not
let Gibbers think he's just won anything by having you
remain in Tallahassee, eight hours away from the only family

(42:17):
you have and lose out on what will be a
job that will afford you and your children advantages that
will never otherwise be able to enjoy. So when Jeffrey Lacasse,
I don't know if anybody remembers. So this is Wendy's
ex boyfriend that she broke up with right before the murder,

(42:39):
who had a lot of great insights into Wendy and
her family. He talks about, well, why did Wendy, I
mean sort of like puzzled. Well, Wendy was going to
get a lot of things in her divorce. She might
have had to give up a few things, but she
was going to get pretty much everything that she wanted,
he felt, but the most important thing was the location,

(43:00):
and she lost that. She lost everything, and even giving
up anything to Wendy was a loss. And relocation being
so important, Donna had to have full access and control.
And what is raising children about is about control. They're
like young children are are just kind of blank slates

(43:28):
in some ways. They have personalities, but they're ready to
be molded, and the Atosns could not handle. They felt
that the Dan Markel's kind of conversion to really conservative
Judaism was a danger and would make these children social

(43:52):
outcasts in mainstream society. So let's show this fucker what
will make him absolutely miserable. You know his weak points
money religion, control. Those seem to be all of Donna

(44:15):
Aedelson and the Adolson's family's week's points money religion in
this case, because it's just another part of control, in control.
You have five weeks before your court date. I know
you have a job that keeps you very busy. However,
the rest of your life and consequently Dad's, mine, and

(44:38):
yes even Charlie's, will be affected by how well you
can perform act before July thirty. First, you can be
a very good actress when you want to. I've seen
you in action. You need to put on the performance
of your life. Ships have is a beaten the Aedolson family.

(44:59):
Yet you have a very strong family behind you. Just
remember that Dad and I have done everything we could
to try to help you. Oh here's Don and the
Martyr to try to help you for the last ten months.
Now it's time to help you yourself very much. The
Atlsent family motto God helps those who help themselves right,

(45:23):
meaning I don't think they really had I don't think
they had really any kind of spirituality to atal sense.
It was just our will. I mean, if anything, it
was like their will over the world, imposing their will
over the world. We believe that you will be able
to make this happen if you can put these actions

(45:45):
before everything else this next month, and we know you
only got the kids for a limited number of days
to do this. We believe that Jibbers will be saying,
stop this, and you'll be telling him you wanted me
in Tallahassee. My children are going to fit in in
this Bible belt. They're going to church every time I
have them. I'm going to have them privately tutored at

(46:06):
home to get them caught up for the Sunday school
classes that I've registered for them in the fall. The
class time coincides with the service I'll be attending. So
just a question, why didn't they think that this would
make Dan Marcel say, okay, you can have the children

(46:26):
take them to Miami, so you can take them to
If you really believe this act that she converted the
kids to Christianity, why would he if he really fell
for it. Why wouldn't he believed that they would be
doing this in Miami. Let me know what you think

(46:47):
in the comments. Perhaps he would like to join you
and the boys at church. Take photos of the boys
standing at the front door by the sign of a
Tallahassee church. Then changed your Facebook status to this one
so everyone will see this. Perhaps a line under the
photo with new beginnings in Tallahassee might be nice. She's

(47:09):
the worst writer. It's always so forny and clunky and
cliche within minutes. I can't wait if there is some
kind of script for Donna giving other inmates favorable testimonies,
Like Donna has written favorable testimony for other inmates to

(47:31):
testify to. I'm dying to see it. I mean, do
you remember her her testimony about being attacked and the
dialogue she gave I'm gonna knock the pretty little teeth
out of your mouth or something like that. That's not
a direct quote, but it was something like that. He's
just always so clunky and unbelievable. She ver should either

(47:57):
see this or he'll be getting calls from as a
friend acquaintance about this, and how happy do you think
he will be? Make arrangements to get the boys caught
up with a private tutor, teenage Catholic church member who
will come to the house to teach the young men
about Jesus. If you don't have time to arrange for this.

(48:18):
I will happily do it for you, just like she
arranged for Wendy's alibi. Charlie admits that the TV repairman
was an alibi on the jailhouse calls after his conviction,
said why did Wendy leave her alibi? And of course

(48:41):
Donna set that up she or he meaning, why did
she leave her alibi to go to the crime scene.
So it really cemented what I always felt about Wendy
driving by the crime scene, that that was not part
of the plan, that she just couldn't help herself, had
to go see if it was done. She had to.

(49:05):
Curiosity and her need to control got the best of her.
She or he will serve as a good babysitter assistant
for you while you're preparing dinner, etc. Let Gibbers know

(49:26):
that your children, so she wants teenage Catholic church members
to babysit for her too. Let Gibbers know that your
children will be baptized in the Catholic Church and you'll
certainly invite him to the event. Let him know that
the Catholic Church is a big part of your life

(49:48):
now with the boys, and you'd like him to be
a part of it. As long as he wants you
to remain in Tallahassee, the boys will be involved with
you in church related activities and ceremonies. I mean, you
say faith as a punishment and they feel I mean,
it's so insightful on how they see Dan Markel's faith

(50:09):
as a punishment to them. So they're going to try
to one up him and punish him with their with
Wendy's new Catholic faith. I'm looking into summer camp programs
for the boys. We will pay for it, even if
the boys end up going only a few days that
they're in Tallahassee, on the days you have them prior

(50:30):
to the hearing. Okay, Red, when do okay, register them
for toddler classes at church. Okay, when Doy you've been through,
take control for him, get to him psychologically. He's going

(50:54):
to want you to stop this. Whndy, you've been through
through a very difficult year. You've had to make a
huge decision. You did that it was the right decision
that what I mean this sounds like I could imagine
how Donna talked to Wendy after the murder. You've been

(51:14):
through a very difficult year. You had a decision to
make it was the right decision. Now you have one
final opportunity to make him anger angry. We want to
tick him off as so he realizes that he could
lose control over his kids. Such a weird It's really

(51:36):
about the punishment and not about the outcome. It's like
they know they have no chance in getting him to
let go of the kids, So just to make his
life miserable, we plan to make a financial offered him
to allow this relocation. You need to work this plan

(51:56):
and will help you through it so that it may
affect how much we will offer him. So it's just
psychological warfare. Just make the custody hearings more difficult, and
maybe he'd be willing to let you relocate if he
knew his children would attend a private Hebrew academy like

(52:19):
Donna Klein in Boco. Or perhaps he'd like them to
he'd like them to invite him to a Christmas party
at their other Sunday school. You have a little overthrew,
I mean, so it's either I stay in tallahasse Either

(52:39):
I stay in Tallahassee and raise the kids Catholic, or
I you let me take them to Miami and they'll
be Jewish. So I mean, who would believe that that
was a real conversion, even if you did the best acting.

(53:00):
Donna's got to know. She's not a stupid woman. She's
got to know that. To me, this is just about
punishing Dan Marcal. They know that if they're going down losing,
they're gonna get their jabs in and they're gonna try
one final last thing to bribe him. But that wasn't

(53:22):
the one final last thing. The final last thing was
to murder him. So it just makes my stomach turn.
You have a little over three weeks till mediation. We
don't want Danny to continue his religious influence over these
children anymore than what he's already done. If he keeps
us up and they won't want to eat in your

(53:45):
non kosher home, and if they see you don't want
to attend their shool functions, you will be the outsider.
See how this is so key? People don't really talk
about the posher food and Dan Markel's dedication dedication to

(54:08):
conservative Judaism as being a real real issue of contention.
It's very difficult. It's there's not an easy an easy
compromise with these things. Either your homeless kosher, it's or
it's not. Either your you have a kosher oven, or

(54:31):
it's not. And then the kids really want to keep
kosher in a really serious way, it's going to be
impossible to do it Wendy's home. I mean, how Dan
Markel didn't see that when the food wasn't kosher at

(54:51):
the wedding, that this was going to be a real problem,
the fact that he was wanted to keep kosher and
she didn't. I know, Ruth mark Hell said to me
in the beginning, they just ate vegetarian and that's how
they dealt with it. But I mean that's just not
a permanent, permanent solution. As they get older and more

(55:16):
involved with gibbers religious influence, they will be able to
request which parents they want to live with. Don't allow
Gibbers to have this power and control over them. I mean,
this is really interesting. Then in reality, he's going to
have the same control over you. So if they take

(55:38):
to their if they start becoming conservative Jews, and then
they're asked who they want to live with at some
point and they pick him, that will be the ultimate
loss for you, the ultimate rejection, and so shameful, publicly

(56:00):
public with a shameful public loss. I mean, that's how
they would see. It would hurt the image of the
Atolsen's It's perfect, and that's the image they put out.
Their phony public persona was everything, along with their money
and their power and winning things. So how I think

(56:21):
she's going to see this trial. I think it's a
game for her to win, and that the Georgia Kappelman,
this whole state of Tallahassee. She seizes the enemy and
the only ones she can really trust are her lawyers.

(56:42):
And there's already been allegations now these are allegations that
the lawyers allowed her to communicate with Harvey on their watches,
their Apple watches and devices from jail. So they sound
I mean, if that's true, and I'm not saying it is,

(57:04):
that's the rumor. It's been in court filence that they
seem a little comfortable outside the law. We know that
Jackie Fulford, Donna Edelson's attorney, got removed as a judge
for being a little bit for really not following the law.

(57:28):
And one woman she she said she had to pay restitution.
I think it was some crazy It was a big
amount and she said she could pay it off in
a dollar a month, and she said she wouldn't have
people who supported one when I think it was a
sheriff that wrong was a someone in the law enforcement.

(57:53):
They didn't support him. She had a life size cut
out of him. They didn't support that person. They couldn't
work for in her judge in their courtroom. So Jackie
Fulford already got removed from the bench as a judge.
And she's not a full time defense lawyer. She also

(58:17):
runs a funeral home. So how she picked Jackie Fulford.
Maybe she picked her because she felt that she was
a criminal lawyer. She thought more like a criminal. A
lot of them do, these defense attorneys. And Josh Selman.

(58:38):
I can't find much about him at all. Let me
know if you found out more about Josh Selman in
his past. Don't call us after you read this. We're
waiting to talk to you. If you have other ideas
to make a last chance for relocation happen, please let
us know. So this is like when they're getting really desperate,
but very much inside the mind of Donna Edelson. I mean,

(59:05):
what a clear, strong personality she has. Okay, I'm gonna
take a quick break when I get back more about
the murderer of Dan Markel. Don't go anywhere.

Speaker 10 (59:38):
My check.

Speaker 8 (59:38):
Roberta strides through the static case true crime got them
where the shadows played their place for its to fold
when a spotlight, themes fac focused, queen busting, propaganda schemes,
glass shadow, lies that goes through the screens, standing for victims,
giving voice, that beat and y c post truth sharpest
night referda explosive. She's an antsy frown light partast warrior,

(01:00:13):
dissecting Satan's defense, twisted innocence, claims, breaking pretense. Gotham's truth
seeker cuts clean with the blade facts in the forefront.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
No justice gets swayed.

Speaker 8 (01:00:23):
Cold facts drip, heavy real talk, gun furls, cracking cases
open like oysters with pearls, innocense, gimmics crumbled with dust
in the wind for victims to creed justice till the end.

(01:00:45):
Headphones blazing, She drops heavy artillery. Now its twisted meat,
blunt objects, civility. Roberta god receipts that unraveled, deploy exposing
the lies, these frauds as deploy glassy his lies that
goes through this dreams standing for victims, given voice, standing
beats and black mean most shop. This name referred to

(01:01:06):
exposes she used to answy fraud light.

Speaker 5 (01:01:38):
Okay, I'm back, So I'm gonna end the way I
usually do with a victim impact statement. This one comes

(01:01:58):
from Dartmouth College. It was written on September tenth, twenty nineteen.
To make it a little bit bigger for you guys,
starts out. Danny Marcel was among my closest friends in Tallahassee, Florida,
during the period that I lived there from two thousand

(01:02:20):
and four through twenty and thirteen. He was a brilliant
man and a warm and generous human being. To this day,
my daughter Madeleine, now nine, and my son Julian now
age twelve, referred to Uncle Danny on the occasions when
his name comes up. Having to explain to them what

(01:02:43):
happened to him and to make sense of this terrible
tragedy was an experience experience I hope my wife and
I never have to repeat. Danny and I met through FSU,
where I taught in the history department from two thousand
and four through twenty and thirteen. We shared academic and

(01:03:07):
intellectual interests. Before attending law school, Danny had done a
master's degree in history at Cambridge with a renowned person
in my field, and we knew numerous other people in
common outside of Florida. We shared an interest in religion
and in Israel, among other subjects, and we worked out

(01:03:35):
at the same gym. But most importantly, we shared the
simple pleasure of friendship. Although Christian, I, along with many,
with great many gentiles in Dallaspee was a frequent guest
at Danny's weekly Shabbat dinners, which over flowed, excuse me,

(01:03:57):
which overflowed with joy and generosity. He and his family
were frequent guests at our home at Tennessee Tennyson Road.
Our children played together, and indeed his boys were supposed
to come over to the house to swim the weekend
after he was killed. My wife was as fond of

(01:04:21):
Danny as I was, and often when I think of
him now, I see the two of them in the
kitchen together preparing food and laughing. Danny had a terrific
sense of humor. He doated on his children, and he
was as fine and creative and intellect as I have

(01:04:42):
had the privilege to know. I write this with tears
in my eyes, and indeed I still find it difficult
to speak of Danny without getting emotional. We left Tallahassee
not long after his death, and although I love the
city and its people, his murder has irrevocably tainted what

(01:05:07):
are otherwise fond memories of our time there. This is
just one of the many things Danny's killers have stolen,
robbing the world not only of a beautiful soul, a
faithful father, a beloved son, and a dear friend, but
of a thought of joy that should be continuing to

(01:05:30):
flow right now and for many years to come. Sincerely,
Darren m McMahon, That's what I have for today. Please
hit the thumbs up on your way out. Guys, subscribe

(01:05:55):
to the channel, leave me a comment, share this episode.
Support the channel. Links are in the description of this episode.
You can buy me a coffee. Support the channel by
sending me a venmo or becoming a Patreon member and
getting access to content that you won't find anywhere else.

(01:06:17):
Have a great night, everyone, Thanks for listening. Donna, what

(01:06:40):
to speak?

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
You're him?

Speaker 9 (01:06:43):
You got it a murder because you wanted to raise
your daughter's kids.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Tama has He is just.

Speaker 9 (01:06:52):
To stop on the way to civilization. My Heami is
where all the fancy people are.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
The TV is about five.

Speaker 9 (01:07:05):
You can't get away from that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Totoe tato huho. You know the guy you pay?

Speaker 9 (01:07:14):
Then you can't get away from that, Oh Dona? What
to stitch your hand? You thought chill was just for
the little people, but now you're saw blankets with the
locked up proof. Your grandmother is locked down and you're
one way ride to feed on your blue.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Dana. What to stitch your hand?

Speaker 9 (01:07:53):
Your family, our exile from the social circles you swam.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
In, y'all, No, you never made that, but that a braid.

Speaker 9 (01:08:03):
Your offer to babysit for that, But you'll soon be
make in license plates and thinking the bouble could have
been gone.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
You had to plan a murder. H

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