Donna Adelson’s Bad Decision to Testify at Trial!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Donna Agelson from Coral Springs, Florida. I want to hear
all about you, Donna.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Let's go well, I'm a domestic coordinator.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
A domestic coordinator.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yes, I'm responsible for the activities, classes and lessons of
my son Robert, who was sixteen, Charlie who was twelve,
wheny who was ten.

Speaker 4 (00:22):
My husband Harvey, who's in the audience, and my dogs.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Sam all right, and how old is Sam?

Speaker 5 (00:26):
Five?

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Five? Cold? Give my best? Nice to have your hair
crop and bowels, work down. Continents are gonna be word.

Speaker 6 (00:37):
There's a lot of lighting on this again.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
The person isn't categories still your return letter beats hell?
Help no hel Donna, m yes, there are two ms.
Let him come up your five seconds person Ella okay, yes,
Kim Kah mustard maker. Yes, there's one age. Time starts now.

(01:19):
Mm hmm don yes, mister.

Speaker 7 (01:29):
Nice m h.

Speaker 8 (01:40):
You are listening to the ROBERTA. Glass True Crime Report
putting the true back in true crime.

Speaker 9 (01:52):
From New York City. ROBERTA. Glass is now on the record.

Speaker 8 (02:14):
Okay, finally, technical difficulties, my apologies. I guess my core
decided to stop working at the key moment. The key moment.
Thank you dark side, Thank you everybody. Sometimes it happens

(02:35):
when you're going live. So let me say hi to everybody.
Something to poop out right at the key momentos So hello,
she fly, Emily murdered by Maestro. I have a fun

(02:55):
show for you. Thank you, thank you for your patience.
The truth. I appreciate it. So luckily I had a
spare I was prepared at a spare court ready. I
just had to run and get it. So I wanted
to talk about what I thought was the key takeaway

(03:16):
from Donna Adelson's hearing yesterday, which is their final hearing
before her trial. It starts August nineteenth, so that's when
jury selection starts August nineteenth for Donna Aedelson's trial. Of course,
we're talking about her trial for the murder of her
ex son in law, Dan Markel. This is a murder

(03:39):
by higher case, and they're accusing Donna Adelson and really
the Adelson family. Her son Charlie Aedelson has already been
convicted of being paying the killers and being behind the plot.

(04:01):
So it's conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy and of course
a murder charge because murder by hire is no different
than murder and her daughter Wendy and her so Donna
Edelson's daughter Wendy and her husband, Harvey Aedelson are unindicted

(04:25):
co conspirators in this case. They've been referred to as
such in court filings. But right now we have for
the Adolson family, we have Charlie Aedelson convicted of murder
and Donna Aedelson set to go to trial. So what
I thought was the big takeaway yesterday of the hearing,

(04:48):
which really truthfully was a kind of ho hum hearing.
The real exciting stuff, which is all the redacted things
about the quote unquote what they refer to in these
court document and says the investigation. They are keeping a
tight lid on it until trial. So what has come
out is that there's two prison snitches, Patricia Bird and

(05:14):
Drina Bernhardt, who are going to testify that Donna was
doing something in jail. What we've heard is that she
was perhaps soliciting favorable testimony and writing scripts for fellow
inmates to testify for her at trial with the help
of Harvey Adelson. Now, Harvey Adelson's phone was tapped by

(05:37):
the FBI during this quote unquote investigation, and according to
the defense, they came up with no evidence whatsoever. But
of course testimony is evidence. So if Drena Bernhardt they
didn't catch, they may not have caught Donna and Harvey
red handed. And they say in these court filings that

(06:03):
was done with the help of her lawyers, using her
lawyers iPhones and other electronic equipment so that her phone
calls wouldn't be surveilled as she was doing this. They
may not have caught Harvey Edelson and Donna Edelson red
handed doing this. May not have. But Drina Hart Bernhardt

(06:27):
and Patricia Byrd even according to the defense, say they
have consistent testimony. Very odd now, I mean, either a
jury's going to say they made it all up for
what reason I don't know, or that was not discussed

(06:50):
yesterday at trial, but the defense has been desperate to
throw out their testimony altogether. There, But the big takeaway
was Donna's going to testify in her own defense, as
I called it. Who called it? I've been saying for weeks,
Donna's going to testify at her trial. I think Donna's

(07:12):
going to testify at her trial. She's just too much
about power and control to let her fate be left
up to her lawyers. So I thought we'd talk about
I have I think, what is a fun show set
up for today? So I wanted to talk about what

(07:35):
her testimony may sound like. I think from the court filings,
it looks like she's going to repeat Charlie Adelson's disastrous defense.
So it's going to be a repeat of Charlie Adelson's
two point zho we were extorted because there's really nowhere
to go else to go but to say that these

(07:58):
killers that we were alleged to have hired did this
on spec and then extorted us for money for some
other for some odd reason, they killed this person that
we hated as a warning that if we don't pay up.
I don't know that you know, we are going to
kill you two. Not like they went after Wendy's kids

(08:22):
or even the family cat or dog. They're going right
to Dan Markel, the person that they that Wendy's having
huge trouble with her ex husband in their finalizing you know,
the details of their divorce. It just continues on and
on and on after they're already divorced. So hey, Wesley

(08:47):
loves October fessed what's going on? Says, Hey, everybody hit
the like, Yeah, thank you. I'm a terrible self promoter,
so I appreciate it. I appreciate the help, Wesley. It's free,
and subscribe while you're at it. It's the best free
thing you'll do all weekend. Thank you, Wesley. I should
hire you. I appreciate it. Yeah, please subscribe. Hit the

(09:10):
light button on your way in. So I wanted to
talk a little bit about what Donna's testimony is going
to sound like, how she may handle some of the newer,
more damning evidence. But I wanted to start off with
one of the elements of yesterday's hearing, which was this idea.

(09:37):
The defense seems desperate to identify Luis Rivera as head
of the Latin Kings and to show her fear during
the bump. Okay that and they quote I don't spoiler alert.

(09:59):
Her lawyer quotes from the testimony of the undercover cop
who did the bump, Oscar Yemenez, and he says I
was in character as a Latin king, but he never
says it. And so I'm going to talk about the
bump first of all, and as being a main issue

(10:22):
for Donna's defense. This is a serious problem for Donna's defense,
and where I think there might be some issues with
where they're going with it. So let's take a look
at yesterday's hearing, and my apologies. The sound was just terrible.

(10:48):
I tried to make it better with my own video
and I, you know, just with the video of it,
and I really couldn't. I couldn't improve upon it. You know,
there was some complaining about me typing all through the video.
That's the court reporter. Just heads up, that's the court

(11:08):
reporter typing. I don't know why it came up so
loudly on this particular video, but take a listen. So
here's where her own lawyer talks about the issue of
how they can identify Luise. Can they identify Louis Rivera
as a Latin king or head of the Latin King's
take a listen.

Speaker 10 (11:31):
Well, but this goes in parts of the theory of
the defense and why missus Aingelsen acted where she did,
the language that she used on the twenty sixteen wire
calls tally that we would want to have.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Her testimony for that, but if or to buy our
hands questioning.

Speaker 10 (12:02):
The state's witnesses, it would be too late to wait
until she testifies. Uh, we would lose the ability across
the state's witnesses on.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
That issue, it's very limited.

Speaker 11 (12:14):
You have h.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
Louise Spervera.

Speaker 10 (12:18):
There will only a few questions at most potentially Charlie
Abelson depending on when.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
The State Pauls had certainly special relations.

Speaker 8 (12:34):
Mhm yemen Is.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Bed this menace uh the last trial an hour, but
he rose. I guess he's.

Speaker 10 (12:47):
Pretending you're trying to influence to reply as the number of.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
The kings.

Speaker 12 (12:57):
To that's travel what your argument, same as my argument
has always been on this issue, Judge, which is that
Rivera was a gang member, that's why he was recruited
to do this. I think that's relevant.

Speaker 13 (13:17):
But the fact that he was a leader of.

Speaker 14 (13:20):
A specific gang, I think.

Speaker 12 (13:21):
It's just bad character evidence that doesn't lend anything additional,
more credidicial than privative, and I would ask to exclude
those details.

Speaker 10 (13:34):
So what we had in the last trial as to
this painting character of mister specifically in the negative running
the culture rhythm really made the same as to the
witnesses that mister Amin has other witnesses that may this
topic and listened on their rinks. Of course, out of

(13:58):
one inside of the bark as far as any cross
examination of mister Rover, specifically, the defense may cross his
own mister Rivera as as to his real as a
gang member and why he was recruited into this matter.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Too specifically sort of a purpose as.

Speaker 10 (14:19):
It relates to the conspiracy of the killing of Danmark Hill.
Now with regard to undercovered or the former undercovered agent,
this kind of this is rarely. The analysis begins to
divert on this topic. He specifically approached the defendant as a.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Latin King member.

Speaker 9 (14:42):
Gret No, sir, my.

Speaker 12 (14:45):
Collection is and I know that was his testimony, but
he and I would instruct him not to say Latin
King in the future. However, he didn't say anything and
miss Abilson about.

Speaker 6 (14:56):
Being a Latin King.

Speaker 14 (14:58):
He I guess that was his right and of acting life.

Speaker 9 (15:02):
A gang member.

Speaker 13 (15:04):
I don't know how well.

Speaker 6 (15:05):
He did, because he did.

Speaker 12 (15:07):
Very well, but that was the intention. He did not
represent himself to her vcally as a Latin King gang member.
He was not wearing any clothing or other signifiers that
he was a member of a specific.

Speaker 8 (15:22):
Gang, right, and if you notice his demeanor, we're going
to look at it in a second. His demeanor was
particularly unmenacing in his approach. So for Donna Adelson, the
first thing, I mean, they're going to use her first line,

(15:43):
which is, oh, you scared me, and the undercover goes, oh,
I didn't mean to scare you, like laughing. I couldn't
be more polite. Even Donna says on the phone, he
wasn't threatening. So if they're going to say that Donna
was horrible fear, there's a problem here, a major problem

(16:07):
here in this defense, because why didn't she pay it
if she was in a horrible fear right away? Five
thousands nothing for us, but instead they have a zillion
phone calls. Yet Charlie Aedelson the minute five foot nothing.
Catherine mcmanua mentions that she wants one hundred and thirty

(16:30):
something thousand dollars. He just hands it over. It's a
problem there with no threat. No, I mean, it's just
an idea at that point. I mean, this is a
massive problem in her defense here.

Speaker 12 (16:53):
Think the idea was justiate this killer who is.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
With a response overbrow.

Speaker 10 (17:06):
Just looking at this previous testimony, my role of quote
in page one sixty seven of the trial transfer to
history turns in case.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Started one twenty question, can you explain what that operation was.
Answer my role in the operation.

Speaker 10 (17:26):
I was portraying a Latin King gang number and I
was instructed to conduct the ball. Continuing on ten sixty eight, question,
is all right when you said you were closing as
a light intending on a game number, did you announce
yourself as a Latin King you approach?

Speaker 3 (17:43):
I did not. Okay, So you're just that's the role.
That was my role. You're in character. That is great.

Speaker 13 (17:50):
That is his testament. And you know I.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Believe that once, especially with the call that to the
undercover on May fourteen, that's why aggressive.

Speaker 9 (18:09):
You a game?

Speaker 8 (18:13):
Okay, so let's talk about that verbal aggression. So one
of the things they're talking about is verbally aggressive. I.
I mean, we can go over the phone call. I
didn't have plans to do it, but it's pretty much
like Donna go. We've been over really recently, but Donna going,
it's not me, it's not me, you know, never hanging up,

(18:37):
never really putting your foot down, always allowing the conversation
to continue to continue. If you're not in it, you
make it very clear that you weren't a part of it.
You don't know anything about it. You're horrified by it.
You're going to the police. Sorry, bye, but here's a
text message that so you don't take me serious. Are

(19:00):
you thinking I'm playing? You have some person call me
or to see if I'm for real. If you think
what Katie's baby daddy did for you can't come back,
you're e fin crazy. So this is the text message
Donna got if you think Katie's If you think what
Katie's baby daddy did for you can't come back, You're

(19:22):
fin crazy. I want the money now or I'm going
after the one hundred k. So the one hundred k
was the money the reward money from the police. So
the fear is that they're going to drop the dime
on you to the police. And Donna ever the poker player,

(19:44):
and that phone calls like do it. You should go
to the police if you have information? Well, yeah, I
do have information about you. I mean, it's so arrogant,
like go to the police. I dare you. They're going
to believe your word over mine. Me and me, Donna
in a good standing I'm a upstanding member of a society.

(20:09):
They're gonna believe you over me. I'm an actress. I'll
put on an act so, I mean, it's just ridiculous.
I mean, she's like negotiating with this guy. She doesn't
sound in terrible fear, like sorry, I'm calling you late.
I had to deal with my grandkids. She's putting on

(20:29):
this act. I'm a grandmother and grandmother person who knows
nothing about this. But the fear isn't that the Latin Kings.
I mean, what they're trying to establish here is that
they were afraid the Latin Kings were going to kill
them in the bump. They're talking about the bump. Come on,

(20:54):
got verbally aggressive, got verbally aggressive with your client that
they were gonna go to the police. A problem, it's
a big problem for Donna.

Speaker 10 (21:09):
The previous year and last year, you got a question
whether there was a difference between a lat gang number
and simply a game.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
The answer is absolutely. In Miami, in Southport, there is
absolutely a difference between a gang member and a.

Speaker 6 (21:25):
Lack opinion.

Speaker 10 (21:29):
People of that being said, this ultimate obros in your
client state of mind, who is going to establish how
she knows there's between forgive the part of the garden variety.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Gang member and a specific gang member.

Speaker 10 (21:46):
Between her testimony and participated testimony chargians.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
That's two questions.

Speaker 8 (21:55):
Where's the pun? There a garden variety gang member, Where's
the pun? I'm missing something right in front of my
face the former.

Speaker 10 (22:09):
Underpredic officer, especially agent two minutes, I will commit the
defense to question the form of special Agent as to whether.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
He is portraying a member of a specific.

Speaker 10 (22:23):
Name as a part of his operation depending on what
the answer is, isn't the issue of whether the Latin
Kings needs to be specifically better.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
As to either Missus.

Speaker 10 (22:39):
Edelson or Charlie Edelson testifying concerning her state of mind
and knowledge of the Latin Kings. As it goes to
the state of mind, defense may certainly inquire as to
that during the defense case in chief as to the
last were there the quote or the name same after

(23:01):
his leadership law or specific the fact that he is.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
The gay number may be entire too in the fact
that he has had the fact that he had an
individual why he was recruited in this case, that certainly
is right across his amination and maybe inquired too. But
as to him a specific black king, that is where

(23:29):
the Ryan's.

Speaker 9 (23:29):
Going to draw.

Speaker 8 (23:31):
Okay, so did everybody get that? So no mention, But
he says. He goes on to say, once the cat's
out of the bag, gets out of the bag. Okay,
So let's look, this is a good time to look
at the bump in Donna Edelson's attitude during the bump.

(23:58):
This is from Charlie Sriles testimony. It's much more specific.
I played San France testimony during Katie's trial and it
was a lot less specific to the Donna. So let's
take a listen.

Speaker 9 (24:18):
Select Donna Adelson to be the recipient of this.

Speaker 15 (24:23):
Because we noticed the pattern of calls leading up to
the murder and around the time of the murder. The
calls were always Donna Adelson to Charlie Aedelson, to Catherine mcmahanuell,
to suec Fret of Garcia, and then back. It was
always going back and forth, pretty much in that order.
So we wanted started on one end and see what

(24:44):
would happen, See if it would if it were travel
that same that same line of person people.

Speaker 9 (24:51):
All right, judge, at this time, I'd like to publish
states one oh five the bump video.

Speaker 16 (24:58):
You're right, I perceived, okay, yes, please.

Speaker 9 (25:18):
Black shorts, what is it? All right? So on the
left side of the scream. We've got two different things
going on here. Can you explain what we're looking at?

Speaker 7 (25:30):
Yes, On the left side is a bid.

Speaker 8 (25:33):
I'm so surprised that we haven't had anybody with like
the scream name black shorts. What is it that we've
had everything else from my moderator, your latex bows to
other references. In this case, nobody's taken black shorts? What
is it?

Speaker 15 (25:54):
A quarter that the undercover agent was wearing and has
video and audio on it. So what you're hearing is
is audio coming from the undercover agent and his video.
On the right side is a separate video taken from
surveillance agents that were in the area watching.

Speaker 9 (26:09):
All right, So the woman we're seeing on the stairs
here is that Donna Anelsen.

Speaker 15 (26:12):
It is, and she's exiting the icon which is on
South Beach her condominium. That's the stairs coming from her
condominium toward the street.

Speaker 8 (26:21):
All right, please.

Speaker 17 (26:22):
Proceed, Okay, all right, Mason, Hey, do I want to

(26:53):
give you this.

Speaker 9 (26:54):
I'll scar listen so I'll let you know that we
know that.

Speaker 18 (27:01):
Your family us take care of and her friends who
don't light on the time after your problem of more
than fought, and I want to let you know that
my brother he's incarcerated.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
He helped your family this problem.

Speaker 19 (27:15):
You guys had up north, and we want to make
sure that he's going through sprong times. We want to
make sure that you take care of the of what
he's going through the way you're taking care of Kay
and through the.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Well, this will explain it. Thank yah.

Speaker 7 (27:41):
Yah kah.

Speaker 8 (27:49):
Look at the speed to which Donna starts walking after this.
M that that top that Donna's wearing is so iconic.

(28:30):
Now at your crime it is so ugly. I mean,
this is my daste.

Speaker 20 (28:36):
But boy, where does missus Adelson go after the conclusion.

Speaker 9 (29:05):
Of the bump?

Speaker 15 (29:06):
She goes into the elementary school there to the door
of the right, goes inside and retrieves the children, and
then goes back to the icon, back across the street
and right.

Speaker 8 (29:18):
So she's terribly in fear, but she gets her grandkids.
Does she run into uh? Does she change your root home?
Does she run into uh? I don't know. Does she
wait at the school till someone can escort her home
to keep her safe? Nothing changes? Mean, she's really in fear.

(29:41):
She's going to put her grandkids and so something's gonna
happen to her grandkids. She knows this scary Latin King
members around where it's just been around following her, knows
her habits. Really they got problems. I got problems here

(30:02):
and then and then of course we have the phone call.
So I think this is going to be an issue
in this trial to establish fear, and Donna's going to
testify to it, and I think she's going to do
very well on she could do. I mean very well

(30:22):
as far as she's going to bring her C minus
acting and she's going to come off like the person,
you know, the person that she is arrogant, and it's
going to a lot of be woe is me my health?
You know, they're going to start out the same way

(30:43):
they started out in Charlie's trial. I've had her raising
three kids and blah blah blah, losing your money in
a Ponzi scheme, and we're came her way out of it, hardships,
she's been up against it, she's every grandma. That's how

(31:04):
they're going to play it. But they're really going to
play up her age, the fact that she's a mother
and a grandmother, and they're hoping the irony also of
this trial is that Donna is expecting Charlie to come
testify and back up, so reiterate his story to back

(31:29):
up her story. Meanwhile, when Charlie Aedelson had a trial,
she was called to testify, and so was Harvey, and
they said, look, we're going to plead the fifth, don't
call us. They came nowhere near the entire entire courthouse
and want nothing to do with it. But when it's

(31:50):
her trial, she wants her son's support. But up against it,
all that's all he has now is a few friends
and family members because everyone else else he's in prison,
everyone else's who else is gonna fill his commentsary, So
they're gonna re it, reiterate its fairy tale. It's gonna

(32:14):
be I think Charlie Adelson sessimon is gonna be interesting.
I think Robert Adelson sessimony is gonna be more interesting.
But to give you an idea what it could sound
like when Donna adel sincessifies, we only have to because

(32:37):
it is two point zero, and I'll skip past Charlie Adols.
I mean, he went on for hours, his direct A
savior the direct, but it was like, oh, I worked
so hard in school, I worked my way up in
dental school. It was hard for me. I studied hard,
I had lots of student loans. I didn't really care

(33:02):
all that much about what happened to Wendy in her divorce.
I had my own life that kind of stuff. But
when it came to my mother suggesting these crazy things
in her emails, I was like, good, give it to him,
give him a lot of grief. That didn't make him likable.
He was just arrogant and unlikable in the stand I

(33:24):
think Donna will be very similar, but we're gonna hear
a very similar story and a very similar cross. So
I thought this would be a good time to review
Charlie Aedelson's cross since Donna Aedelson is it is her
testimony is Charlie Aedelson's two point zero. So let's take
a look. I sped this up just a little bit,

(33:50):
all right.

Speaker 9 (33:50):
Doctor, Have you ever heard the saying that the simplest
explanation is always the most likely? Have you heard? That
was your explanation to the jury over the last a
little over a day, The simplest explanation.

Speaker 21 (34:06):
It was the truth?

Speaker 9 (34:08):
Do you I mean, you have a thorough explanation? Would
you agree with that?

Speaker 21 (34:12):
I told you what happened.

Speaker 9 (34:14):
Do you agree that the only problem with having an
explanation for everything is that there's just so many explanations.

Speaker 21 (34:20):
There's no explanation. I explained what happened.

Speaker 9 (34:22):
I want to go through some of that. You claim
that you were extorted on July eighteenth, twenty fourteen, by
Catherine McDaniel, and also in the background some Latin kings,
probably Garcia and Rivera. Right, is that accurate?

Speaker 22 (34:34):
No?

Speaker 21 (34:34):
I wasn't extored by Catherin mcwalia.

Speaker 10 (34:36):
You weren't.

Speaker 21 (34:37):
Okay, That's not what I believed in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 9 (34:40):
Okay, I'm sorry. I understood you to say you believe
that today today I do, yes, all right, So who
extorted you?

Speaker 21 (34:46):
I believe that it was Katherin mcbind's friend that she
ran her mouth to. Okay, twenty fourteen.

Speaker 9 (34:52):
Right, But as you sit here today, you think it's mcdanah,
Garcia and Rivera. Is that accurate?

Speaker 21 (34:56):
No, that's not accurate.

Speaker 9 (34:57):
Okay, who extorted you?

Speaker 21 (34:59):
As I said here, I believe that it was Catherine Redmindia,
and I believe Sifredo Garcia, but I don't know for sure.
I was never there when she was ever talking to him,
So I don't know if he was in on it
with her or not.

Speaker 9 (35:10):
All right, at the time, though, you did not think
she was guilty, got that right?

Speaker 21 (35:18):
The time of the fourteen yes, correct.

Speaker 9 (35:23):
And then so exactly when you found out would be
I think you said her try that.

Speaker 21 (35:28):
I suspected that she was not telling me the truth
and she was a part of it. Was in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 9 (35:32):
At her trial, yes, all right, And so she was
arrested in twenty sixteen, right, yes, all right, So for
three years she was in the Leon County jail awaiting trial. Yes,
she was there, and you believed she was innocent. Yes,
and you had this whole explanation to assist with exonerating her. Right.

Speaker 21 (35:54):
I have the truth of what happened, yes, But you.

Speaker 9 (35:56):
Didn't offer the truth of what happened, did you.

Speaker 21 (35:58):
Nobody came to I thought the truth would come out.

Speaker 9 (36:01):
Does someone have to come to you.

Speaker 21 (36:02):
I was told not to talk to Katie and not
to talk to anybody about this case by counsel.

Speaker 8 (36:08):
That was such a strong point by Georgia Capulman. Here
you're sitting watching an innocent woman get prosecuted for murder,
and you're saying nothing.

Speaker 9 (36:20):
Okay, so you strike that.

Speaker 8 (36:28):
So when he first started testifying, the entire gallery was
packed full of people on both sides. By the end,
the thrill was gone. By the time cross examination came round,
the thrill was gone. People had had enough.

Speaker 9 (36:45):
On day one, which is July eighteenth, twenty fourteen, she
is the only one that physically contacted you to conduct
this extortion? Am I correcting that?

Speaker 21 (36:55):
Yes? You are so.

Speaker 9 (36:57):
You never actually had any contact with any Latin King. No,
no phone calls, no phone, no texts.

Speaker 21 (37:05):
No, no letters. Well, in twenty and sixteen from you're
talking about fourteen, right.

Speaker 9 (37:10):
I'm talking about the first layer of the extortion. Did
you have any contact with the thugs that were getting
your money for two years?

Speaker 21 (37:18):
No?

Speaker 9 (37:19):
Did anybody put a gun to your head?

Speaker 21 (37:21):
I was told that I would be killed in forty
hours if I didn't pay up.

Speaker 9 (37:23):
I heard you say.

Speaker 8 (37:24):
That forty eight hours, forty eight hours. Where did he
come up with that? But meanwhile they're given five thousand dollars.
They went five thousand dollars and the family's got to
have a family meeting over five thousand dollars. They're gonna
drop a dime Giddies nineteen ninety three says, I love

(37:46):
how he supposedly knows she extorted him, but they continued
to grow closer. That is some of my favorite testimony too.
He was actually going to make his own lifetime movie
I fell in love with my extortionists that unfortunately call through.
I'm just kidding My affair with my extortionists so romantic,

(38:09):
isn't it.

Speaker 9 (38:12):
My question is, did anyone put a gun in your head?

Speaker 21 (38:14):
Did your desk? Did anyone pull a gun on me?
That's sad question. No, No, nobody pulled the firearm on me.

Speaker 9 (38:19):
All right. So when Katherine I had ban with came
to you on July eighteenth and said open the safe
and give me all your money, she was not armed.

Speaker 21 (38:26):
She was not carrying it on that day.

Speaker 9 (38:27):
Now were you armed at that time? Did you have
a weapon in your home?

Speaker 21 (38:30):
I had weapons my safe? Yes?

Speaker 9 (38:34):
Were the Were you led to believe or told that
the bad guys are outside right outside your apartment or your.

Speaker 8 (38:40):
Resident It's really like a Shakespearean drawing, you know, tragedy
this thing in some ways. By the time he was arrested,
Charlie Eagilson, they said he had my memory of it
is that he had all these guns in his apartment
and she's I mean, they just lived in this concept

(39:00):
fear paranoia. And Donna Aedelson too was saying Dan Markel
was haunting her from the grave. That's June Mhada, Charlie
Edelson's other ex who testified, who said she was still
in love with him when she testified at this trial,

(39:23):
said that it's such a perfect thing for Donna Aedelson
to say, because it's nothing that ever she did. All
her actions are perfect. These horrible things that happen are
because of other people or supernatural events. Dan Markel is
haunting her from the grave. Dan Markel is making it happen.

(39:46):
He was so awful he made us kill him, and
now he's haunting us from the grave. Things are going
so terribly. She couldn't sleep, she couldn't eat. So you
see when she gets arrested, although she is very helped
by substances, you can see the like she seems like more.

(40:17):
You know, there seemed to be some kind of peace
that the worst had had had happened. The fear that
she'd been living with just finally happened. She finally got
arrested and had to face this, face responsibility for she
doesn't see it this way, but face responsibility for murdering

(40:37):
Dan Marcel. She sees it as the terrible thing that
Dan Markel is making happen his ghost. Her family is cursed.
She said that a family is cursed. We're cursed. She
said that. So again, it's like a supernatural thing that's
happening to her family. My son I don't talk to

(41:00):
my one son is in prison, might as well be dead.
And my daughter, my daughter who I love, doesn't talk
to me. That's done on the phone. So everything bad
is happening to her. It's just happening randomly.

Speaker 21 (41:19):
No, but I was led to believe what they did
to Dan and they were going to do to me.

Speaker 9 (41:22):
I heard you say that. But my question is, did
she say, like the car is running, I'm gonna take
the money out there to him right now.

Speaker 21 (41:27):
No, she never told me that they were waiting for
me outside.

Speaker 9 (41:29):
My house in back. She stayed the night with you,
didn't she yes, she did, and didn't exit your house
with you. One hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars until
the next day, right correct, And the money one hundred
and thirty eight thousand dollars? Was that stabled in one
thousand dollars increments?

Speaker 21 (41:47):
Each packet was one thousand dollars, and they were had
a stape point.

Speaker 9 (41:50):
And stabling money's a little unusual. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 21 (41:55):
For me, it wasn't unusual. That's what I did, right, But.

Speaker 9 (41:57):
Nobody else does it. That's why I'm suggesting it's unusual.

Speaker 21 (42:00):
I've never questioned people into how they keep their money,
whether they keeping it from the staple or a paper
clip or envelope. I just know what I do.

Speaker 9 (42:06):
Would you agree doctor that it's a compelling piece of
evidence that the killers were paid.

Speaker 8 (42:10):
He doesn't think it's unusual. He's never come across anyone
who staples their money. I mean, that's essentially what he's saying.
But he just knows what he does. He's not aware.
He doesn't run into a lot of people, like when
he takes someone out to dinner and he says, they
both say we're going to pay it. At the same time,

(42:31):
they pull out their cash and loan behold it's stable.
They don't go You staple your money too. Wow, I
just know what I do.

Speaker 9 (42:44):
Stupid answer in staple money and came up with that information,
it's not compelling that the people who extorted me and
got my money got it from my house and it
was stapled.

Speaker 21 (42:53):
In my house.

Speaker 9 (42:53):
They had to have gotten it from you, right because
it was staple.

Speaker 21 (42:56):
If they got it from Katie, they got it from me.

Speaker 9 (43:00):
So it had to be some kind of I paid,
But I did it under dures based on that piece
of evidence, right, But I had to be built into
your defense.

Speaker 21 (43:07):
I was extorted and I paid the money.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
All right.

Speaker 9 (43:11):
So Katie comes in and she's in a panic, and
she tells you what's happened, and I need all the
money in your safe right now? Do you suspect that
maybe she's working with the police at that point, maybe
she's trying to set you up.

Speaker 21 (43:27):
No, she didn't say I need all the money. You're safe.

Speaker 9 (43:29):
That's something what she said, did you take all the
money in your safe?

Speaker 21 (43:32):
I cleaned out all the money in my safe and ended.

Speaker 9 (43:34):
To her, Right, why did you do that?

Speaker 21 (43:36):
Because I'm being extorted for thirty million dollars?

Speaker 9 (43:39):
But why didn't you The bunth was only five thousand
dollars And you immediately became suspicious and questioning and had
all these conversations and deliberations about what to do about
it for days. When Katie comes to you, you just
open the safe and give her the money.

Speaker 21 (43:52):
Right, That's what I did. And there's a big difference
between the two.

Speaker 9 (43:58):
Okay, well that it was done to you? Is that
the way it's done. You have to be well on
the wire, you Saber.

Speaker 8 (44:07):
You know, as Charlie Edelson doesn't get out of town,
he doesn't go to a non extradition country where they
can't find him. Is that it does that when he's
being hunted by the Latin Kings, he doesn't try to escape,
move to a small town, become a Dennis somewhere else,

(44:28):
thinks they're really gonna hunt him down. It's just such
a stupid defense. I mean, I guess it's the best
defense you can come up with. You're gonna tailor your
story to the evidence. But as you'll see in this
cross there's gaping holes.

Speaker 9 (44:46):
Peterly, that's not the way it's done. You knew that
the undercover agent was law enforcement or at least strongly suspected,
because that's not the way it's done. And my question
to you is, since you're an expert on extortion, because
you've been extorted before, and that's how you knew that's
not the way it's done. Is this the way it's done.
Do extortionists send a girlfriend of their victim to collect

(45:08):
their extortion money? Is that the way it's done? Doctor?

Speaker 21 (45:12):
I'm telling you what happened to me. And I was
told that if I didn't pay forty eight hours, I
would be killed. The person that came and extorted my mom.
That was not the same approach as what happened to me.

Speaker 9 (45:22):
Is that the only way, that's the only way it's done.
I send the girlfriends.

Speaker 21 (45:25):
The only time I've ever been extorted like that?

Speaker 9 (45:27):
Okay, And did you hear any of the negotiators? So
they come in and they say strike. They come in
and they say, we need a third of a million dollars.

Speaker 21 (45:38):
You need to pay a third of a million dollars.

Speaker 9 (45:40):
Just pay a third of a million dollars. Why not
a million dollars?

Speaker 21 (45:42):
Because when I had told to Katie that the million dollars.

Speaker 8 (45:46):
Isn't there some kind of thing with the Oh what
am I thinking of? In the conspiracy culture? Thirty three
and the third thirty three? Wait is he going to
go there? Thirty three three hundred and thirty three thousand
dollars is pretty small for your life. They could have

(46:10):
asked for a lot more. It was a dentist making
you know, orthodontist? Was that what he was? Help me
out again, sit an orthodonis? Orthopedist or orthopedist? Is your
feet orth a that orthodonist? Or was he something else?

(46:30):
Help me out anyway? So he's making tons of money
in plants, those things, but they're going to ask for
that small bit of money or his life seriously, with
all his boats he's buying I think he talks about
on the phone. He's talking about buying this around the

(46:53):
bump time when they're listening to him, he's talking about
buying a go cart and he has an I need
to throw around for a go kart twenty sixteen. And
I guess when you're on a payment plan, it's not
it's not hard. But they're seeing all this, like Katie's

(47:15):
seeing all this up close, all this wealth, and that's
what they asked for. And then they put them on
a payment offer.

Speaker 21 (47:22):
For Dan Markelle, I said I was going to pay
a third of a million, and I when she asked me,
do you have that much money, and I said, yeah,
I get paid in cash. So she took it as
I had cash, and she knew I had a ton
of cash in my safe, so she thought I had
the cash. I didn't have all that cash. So that's
where I'm assuming they got the third of a million
dollars from.

Speaker 9 (47:38):
But the offer that she bragged about was a million
dollar offer? Isn't that right that she ran her mouth about.

Speaker 21 (47:44):
I was never there when she spoke to her friend.

Speaker 9 (47:46):
Heay, was it a million dollar offer?

Speaker 21 (47:48):
The offer was that a million dollars was going to
be paid, and I was going to pay a third
of a million.

Speaker 9 (47:52):
And weren't you going to cover Wendy's third as well?

Speaker 21 (47:54):
No, not at all. I was going to cover my third.

Speaker 9 (47:56):
Didn't your lawyer say an opening statement that you were
going to cover the whole thing or Wendy's third?

Speaker 21 (48:01):
No, I was sitting here. I heard what he said.
Charlie was going to pay a third of a million dollars, all.

Speaker 9 (48:05):
Right, And so the offer was a million dollar offer.
And that's what you told Katie, along with the fact
that you were going to cover the third.

Speaker 21 (48:11):
I was telling her that I was going to pay
a third of a million dollars stent and then one
day with my sister was able to she was going
to pay me back.

Speaker 9 (48:17):
And then you didn't have the amount of money that
was being demanded at the time, right, No, I only
had what I had, all right, And at that point,
the blackmailer, Katherine mag Banawa, negotiates some type of layaway
plan for you to complete the extortion with the Latin Kings.

Speaker 21 (48:34):
Okay, Katie wasn't the blackmailer, and Katie wasn't the one
who was extorting me.

Speaker 9 (48:39):
Didn't you just tell this jury that Katie was the blackmailer?
You realize it in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 21 (48:44):
I had thought that when you were just talking, you
were talking about twenty fourteen. You were talking about that night.
So that's not happening in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 9 (48:51):
Okay, we all know now because you have revealed the
puzzle piece, she's a blackmailer.

Speaker 21 (48:59):
Can we agree on I believe sitting here in twenty
twenty three is that she was in on the extortion.

Speaker 9 (49:04):
For yes, So is it okay? If I referred to
her as a blackmailer.

Speaker 21 (49:07):
I think there's a difference beween blackmailed extortion. But yeah,
that's sitting here today, we capture well, we'll referred her
as an extortionist.

Speaker 8 (49:13):
So this thank you periodontist, thank you.

Speaker 9 (49:17):
Okay, woman, an extortionist is going to do you a
solid by negotiating with the Latin Kings for you to
get on a payment plan with the extortion Isn't that
what happened?

Speaker 21 (49:27):
What you're doing is you're taking what we know in
two thousand and three and trying to say this is
what I knew in twenty fourteen.

Speaker 9 (49:34):
Did she put you on a payment plan?

Speaker 21 (49:38):
Yes, she said, because I didn't have the money. She said,
ask me if I could pay three thousand dollars a
month in twenty fourteen, and I said, yes I can.

Speaker 9 (49:46):
Did you hear any of the conversation where she was
making these negotiations on your behalf.

Speaker 10 (49:52):
No.

Speaker 21 (49:53):
When she said I'm going to go check with my
friend and if that's okay with them, she took her purse,
took her keys, took her cell phone, She walked down
my front door, closed the door behind her, and I
sat in my living room and she came back about
five minutes later.

Speaker 9 (50:04):
You didn't want to talk to the guy yourself?

Speaker 21 (50:07):
No, I didn't even think of that, but she went
outside to call him, all.

Speaker 8 (50:11):
Right, and then yeah, mister negotiate with street dudes, isn't
gonna want to talk to the guy himself. She took
her purse, I love, I love all his little flourishes
of details, her keys, shut the door. How much do you
want to bet she did this when she was talking

(50:32):
about her kids or some other thing. And he took
those memories and used it for this.

Speaker 9 (50:38):
And the two of you took his annex and went asleep.

Speaker 21 (50:41):
Well I took his ax. I don't know if she
took one out of the bottle, but I definitely did.

Speaker 9 (50:46):
And the next morning she left with your money, right.

Speaker 8 (50:49):
I mean, that was a real clue there when he
says she see, he didn't want to have his license
at risk for giving Katie drugs great controlled substances, just
handing them out, so Katie, he has Katie get to
the bottle and pull them out. And I thought, oh,

(51:12):
this guy, you know, when I heard that, I go, oh,
this guy thinks he's going to get off. He's protecting
his license. There didn't work out so well, he's no
longer Perry and Dantist, thank you. So he's the word
escapes me the next morning.

Speaker 9 (51:30):
That's July nineteenth, twenty fourteen. Correct, let's talk about what
you did that day. You did not report this to
the police because you were in fear. Correct, absolutely, And
you didn't report this to Wendy even though, according to you,
her life was in danger too.

Speaker 21 (51:44):
Correct, potentially, But I plan on paying the extortion every month.

Speaker 9 (51:48):
Right, But you did go to the gym that morning, right?
Did we show that textly? Did you? Were you able
to go to the gym?

Speaker 21 (51:58):
Right? I absolute leave the house. I've worked it out
at No Southeastern gym. You can check the gym records.
I was over there.

Speaker 9 (52:04):
Did you say you were going to the gym? But
you didn't actually go?

Speaker 8 (52:09):
I mean like they're going to have gym records from
years later? How many years do they think they gym
records go? Back's at the gym? But six months a year?
Maybe maybe if you're lucky, you can check the gym records.
It's another it's called the bluff. But I love this.

(52:35):
I thought this is a great catch by Georgia Caplan here.
So you said you're going to go to the gym,
and it's a great day out, and I'm just pretending
everything's okay, well secretly, yeah, right.

Speaker 9 (52:54):
All right, So would you agree doctrine? We'll refresh your
memory with them if we can that. The text messages
that were exchanged between yourself and Katherine mcvanwall on the
morning after this exchange of money were inconsistent with your
extortion theory.

Speaker 21 (53:10):
They were inconsistent with how it was feeling.

Speaker 9 (53:14):
They don't appear to look like you just gave her
one hundred and thirty thousand dollars under duress, do they.

Speaker 21 (53:19):
She told me. The last thing she said to me
before she left the house is can we just pretend
like this never even happened? So when I sent her
that message, I was trying to show her like I'm
forget trying to forget all about it.

Speaker 9 (53:28):
Yeah, you were just demonstrating to her that you would
agree to pretend nothing happened.

Speaker 21 (53:34):
Right, Absolutely, That's what jaked me to do, and that's
what I tried to do.

Speaker 9 (53:38):
So the text messages aren't what they appear to be.
It's a beautiful day. I'm going to the pool, I'm
going to the beach, I'm going to the gym. None
of that is what it appears.

Speaker 21 (53:46):
To be at something else I absolutely did not go
to the gym. I was trying to show her that
I was, you know, pretending like nothing ever happened and
looking past it, and there's nothing on the wire.

Speaker 8 (53:56):
Let's look at some of these text messages for those
they're let's say I'm on podcast. Charlie Edelson says, headed
to the gym? Are you taking the kids to the beach?
It's so nice, Hey, extortionists, are you taking the kids
to the beach? It's so nice? On your way back
to the extortioners, to the guys extorting me, you might

(54:19):
want to take your kids to the beach, Katie mcbanoa says,
it's beautiful, probably the pool. Nice, have fun, ethan less,
be happy. I think that's a typeo. It says me happy,
just got back from the something it's covered. Hope you're
doing okay. I'm okay. Thanks for asking. Just gonna try

(54:42):
to rest. I hope you're okay. You know, why don't
you think of text messages? Be like, I hope you're okay.
I hope none of this was too sudden. You're feeling okay.
I hate to do this to you. I don't know what.
I don't know what co'd say, you're.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
In the middle of.

Speaker 9 (55:02):
Well, those hours of you talking, there is nothing on
the wire about the extortion, this layer one of extortion,
because she told you not to talk.

Speaker 21 (55:12):
About it, right, She told me to never talk about
anything to anyone or her. She never wanted to hear
about it.

Speaker 13 (55:16):
Again.

Speaker 9 (55:17):
Yesterday in your testimony between you and your attorney, you
mentioned the word extortion one hundred and twenty three times.
Would take my work for that.

Speaker 21 (55:25):
I'm sure it came up a lot, okay.

Speaker 9 (55:27):
But nowhere even in the midst of this whole second
extortion that's happening again. It's an extension of the same thing.
Do you mention anything about this layer one of the extortion?
Do you?

Speaker 21 (55:39):
Yes? Actually I did? Okay, if you pull up the
video from Matsuri when I was sitting with my dad
and I said, then the funny thing is that's what.

Speaker 9 (55:46):
I whispered in his ear right, But we can't hear that.

Speaker 21 (55:49):
Right, because that's my point. I never wanted anybody to
hear what had happened. I never wanted the police to
come talk to me. But if you put up that video,
you actually seen me saying that it's my dad's here.
And that's why I wanted to say it. That's what
we were talking.

Speaker 8 (56:00):
Sure, they was talking about the murder. There that video,
he identifies the camera in the undercover's bag that's filming him,
and that really cuts any kind of surveillance short. It's
a nothing burger video with he's talking to Harvey. I mean,

(56:24):
one of the reasons why Harvey's an unindicted co conspirator.
I mean, I don't know, I don't know how anyone
else is feeling. But just maybe I'm wrong, But I've
always been suspicious of that phone call sick Fredo makes
to Harvey Aedelson it's home phone. I find that just

(56:45):
odd thinking it's I don't I mean, just do other
people believe that he really thought it was Charlie. They
seem to know that it's for Donna, that Donna's involved
in Wendy, for Wendy, definitely for the lady and her kids.

(57:08):
So curious, I mean, maybe he did, maybe that's the
real story, but curious about that.

Speaker 9 (57:16):
Sorry, the only time you mentioned the extortion, it's in
a whisper that is not picked up by the microphones.

Speaker 21 (57:21):
Right intentionally, yes, yes, and that was intentional.

Speaker 9 (57:25):
At the time, But It sucks for your defense, right,
because that would be a huge piece of evidence.

Speaker 8 (57:29):
Yeah. That that's another thing I've always think the jet
ski thing, they tell it a different a million different ways,
that jet ski thing. I'm suspicious of that too, but
I may be wrong. Only Katie mcbanoa, Sigfredo, and Charlie
know what happened that really happened, the jet ski incident

(57:54):
where Sigfredo was supposed to yell at Charlie and he
did a k turn and got out of there while
they were on their ways to jet skis. They didn't
want his jet skis either. Oddly, Oddly Sifredo knew he
had jet skis and didn't want those, didn't want his guns,

(58:18):
didn't want any Just three hundred and thirty thousand dollars
thirty three three hundred and three hundred and thirty three
thousand dollars for you to show the story, wouldn't it.

Speaker 10 (58:37):
No?

Speaker 21 (58:38):
I think you come up with a reason why that
I said it anyway, And.

Speaker 9 (58:42):
There's nobody to corroborate this testimony. There is, okay, and
the Matt Surrey you talked about it again out in
the parking lot, right, wasn't that your testimony.

Speaker 21 (58:56):
Yes, we spoke in the parking lot, so he did
talk about the extortion.

Speaker 9 (59:00):
I just didn't do it in a way that it
was captured on any of the recordings in this case.

Speaker 21 (59:04):
But we spoken. We had privacy.

Speaker 9 (59:07):
Well, you had privacy on the phone, right, when at
least you thought you had privacy on the phone every
time when you were talking on the phone for hundreds of.

Speaker 21 (59:16):
Hours on there there's always a chance that I was
being listened to.

Speaker 9 (59:20):
Okay, well, there was a chance you were going to
listen to when you whispered in the dad's ear, right,
But you said it, you were talking about it.

Speaker 21 (59:25):
I was, I was real quietly into his ear. So
I thought I had privacy at that point, I thought
I had privacy.

Speaker 9 (59:30):
And Katherine mcvanama and you discussed this first layer of
extortion in the car outside of Delta.

Speaker 21 (59:36):
Vita too, right, That's that's when I found out everything
that was going on, and she opened up.

Speaker 9 (59:42):
But if this jury could hear that conversation recorded, we
would all be hearing basically what you're telling us, that
there was an extortion effort that predated the undercover.

Speaker 21 (59:51):
Operation, right, Because I was trying to see if sik
Freda was behind the extortion of my mom, because I
knew he was behind if he always had a feeling
it was behind what happened to me. And he was
having this explosive fight with him and it was going
on the same exact time that my mom started getting extorted,
so I thought that he was going after my mom.

Speaker 9 (01:00:08):
Don't you wish that that conversation in the car had
been recorded?

Speaker 8 (01:00:13):
You know what's funny also is if you listen to
the prison tapes or the jailhouse tapes after Charlie Adelson's
conviction between Donna and Charlie, he doesn't go over and
over the details of his extortion. It's not odd. Wouldn't
that be something that you would do. I mean, I

(01:00:34):
know that this happened here, and blah blah blah, the
whole details. It's almost as if he memorized a script
just for testifying. What they go over is over and
over again. Is how dumb that you're How much the

(01:00:57):
people in Tallahassee hate him, How he couldn't have a
fair trial, How the trial was unfair, How Georgia Kappelman
was folksy and unfair, How they had the best defense ever,
rash Maaun was the best and the best jury consultant
ever in the form of would I consider fraudster Josh

(01:01:18):
Dubin from the Innocence Project ambassador mister, you never met
a criminal he didn't want to help avoid conviction or
help free guilty criminal. That guy, I mean, can't say
enough bad things about him. And then they go over again.

(01:01:40):
How he wouldn't be convicted if it hadn't been for
Wendy driving by the crime scene and quote leaving her alibi.
He refers to the TV repair as an alibi multiple times.
Who causing an alibi? Who needs an alibi when you're
innocent like Wendy is? And now it was really just

(01:02:02):
a coincidence. How people don't believe coincidences. But he's just
a victim again like Donna, a victim of coincidences. That
just everything bad just happens to him. It's nothing he does.
And if it weren't for Wendy driving by the crime
scene an hour after it happened, and Donna Adelson writing

(01:02:22):
crazy emails and doing way too much TV talk, As
he puts it, there was just too much TV talk.
He would be home now and he wouldn't have to
be asking for all his commentsary that he gave away
before the verdict came down, thinking he was going to
go home. He wouldn't be asking for it back.

Speaker 21 (01:02:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (01:02:55):
Wouldn't it prove your theory?

Speaker 21 (01:02:58):
Yeah, you're talking about then you know exactly what happened
back then.

Speaker 9 (01:03:02):
But unfortunately it wasn't recorded, and then everything that was
recorded inside the restaurant, you don't mention.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
It, right.

Speaker 21 (01:03:09):
I'm speaking very carefully, I mean, and I was still
even when I was in the car with Katie, she
was doing most of the talking. That was the first
time she really opened up, and I think I caught
her off guard. I was still even when I spoke
to in the car, I was real careful. I said,
was t behind what happened to me? Like I wouldn't
even say the words to her when I was in
the car.

Speaker 9 (01:03:25):
Okay, I was tea behind what happened to me. Do
you say anything anywhere on the wire about referencing what
happened to me, meaning what happened to me before?

Speaker 21 (01:03:35):
No, because that was the only time I ever confronted her.

Speaker 8 (01:03:37):
But apparently he's still afraid of saying extortion mentions extortion
one hundred and twenty three times in his testimony is direct,
but not one time at post conviction odd I was extorted?
Was I was convicted of something of a murder that

(01:04:04):
was done on spec? Never said, said Charlie ah Adelson.
Never they They just wanted my money, and murdering Danny
was on spec. Strangely a guy who everyone in my
family ated except Robert. It was the best way to

(01:04:29):
get money from me. They couldn't come and just rob me. Strangely,
Luis Rivera was said, why don't we just rob Danny?
That was his thing. He was into robbing people. They
rob a guy going down there on a cocaine deal
he set up for as a favor, remember that testimony.

(01:04:51):
They loved to rob. Why didn't they just rob him?
They could have gotten everything they wanted without having to
ever based of life sentence for murder burglary a little bit,
a little bit shorter sentence there did.

Speaker 21 (01:05:08):
Actually when I would when I would be on the
wire with my mom and I would say, this is
it's not the same person, Like that was in reference
to what happened to me, and.

Speaker 9 (01:05:15):
What do you say, it's not the same person?

Speaker 21 (01:05:18):
Uh, okay, you want to know a call. It was
Tuesday the twenty sixth, and I said, it's at the
end of the call is two minute in something called
April twenty six April twenty sixth, twenty sixteen. It was
a two minut in something called It was towards the
very end, and I go, I know it's not done
like this. It's forty eight hours, just enough time. It's

(01:05:38):
not the same person, so you can look it up.

Speaker 9 (01:05:41):
Okay, I'm with you. I'm with you. It's not the
same person you were referencing as the person that blackmailed
me years ago, and it has been black mailing in
four years.

Speaker 21 (01:05:50):
Yeah, that's what you meant. It's not the same person
that's exhorting me.

Speaker 9 (01:05:52):
Correct, all right, So.

Speaker 8 (01:05:56):
That was I think this is some of the worst
part of his testimony that he thinks is the best,
is that he's so familiar with his evidence in his case,
it just makes it look like which is what I
think he did. He's tailoring his story to the evidence.
When you know it it's such crazy detail.

Speaker 9 (01:06:21):
I want to go back to and.

Speaker 8 (01:06:23):
So arrogant about it. You want to know what go
back to tape number seventy three point so the guilty
person does Wendy.

Speaker 9 (01:06:35):
Wendy is in the process of relocating from Tallhasey to
South Florida basically the day that this is going on
day after the mind drop, right.

Speaker 21 (01:06:42):
They're they're packing up the car. They're coming back then.

Speaker 9 (01:06:45):
So she's going to be moving significantly closer to the
killers that had threatened in your life.

Speaker 21 (01:06:49):
This is what she wasn't planning. It wasn't a permanent
move or anything that was planning. I think she took
a suitcase with him.

Speaker 9 (01:06:54):
But she's your family member. Yes, she's much closer to
the one they've already killed than you, Right, she's saying again,
she's much closer. She's got much deeper connections to the
person they've already killed, that's Dan Markel, than you do.

Speaker 8 (01:07:12):
Right, She's gonna about to move to the killers. So
what is Donna going to say. I'm hearing from my
son Charlie. He's getting extorted for money, and I just say,
pay him, pay him, Katie. I mean, she wants to
paint Katie. And this is what makes it so interesting
about these jailhouse snitches. She claims she had two snitches

(01:07:33):
fassty Conroy. I'm forgetting the other one's name ready, but
she wanted to preserve their testimony, saying that Katie was
saying things about how she set up the old Adoles
and family. She was the mastermind behind it. But why

(01:07:53):
not rob the whole family? The rob Charlie, rob, Rob Donna,
rob Rob Harvey, rob them all? And they have millions?
I mean, what is this on a three thousand dollars
a month ridiculousness?

Speaker 9 (01:08:13):
Right, I mean, there's a reason to fear for her
safety because these killers have come. They've just killed Dan,
and now they're saying they're going to kill another one.
It could be Wendy, right, she has no idea what's
going on exactly. But you let her move from Tallahassee
to Miami, where you knew the killers were located. That's
my point.

Speaker 21 (01:08:27):
Do you agree with that the killers were able to
find Dan Markell in Tallassee? They have the car they.

Speaker 9 (01:08:31):
Were But would you rather live in Tallahassee or in Miami?
At the killers are in Miami.

Speaker 21 (01:08:36):
I think if these people want to find you, they'll
find you. I mean, I don't think. I mean looking
at Luis Rivera, I don't think it. I don't think
a distance would stop them.

Speaker 9 (01:08:43):
Okay, where did Wendy and the boys live when she
first moved to South Florida.

Speaker 21 (01:08:49):
When she first moved to South Florida, she moved in
with my parents into the small apartment. I actually had
to get another apartment because that one was too small.
With your parents, she moved in with them.

Speaker 8 (01:08:58):
Yeah, and he didn't call up his friend Scott Radius
and say, let me let me move to Vietnam. Let's
all move to Vietnam with your Vietnamese wife and she
can buy me a property, or I can live in
the property that I'm investing in secretly because Americans aren't

(01:09:19):
allowed to own property. I don't know when that deal
went down, but it had to be after Dan's murder. Strangely,
none of them said, let's move the whole family to
Vietnam or we won't be victims of this extortion anymore.

Speaker 9 (01:09:35):
I want to talk about the cameras. You bought cameras
for the Adleson Institute and your home at Whale Harbor, Right, Yeah,
he's camera system. Yeah all right? And what about Wendy's
I guess she didn't have a place, so like wherever
she was staying with your parents, where cameras installed there
as well at that same time frame that you install
these cameras.

Speaker 21 (01:09:51):
No, I never told her what happened, but they live
in a very secure building.

Speaker 9 (01:09:55):
Isn't it true, doctor that you'd been planning to install
those cameras for some time before the murder?

Speaker 21 (01:10:00):
I actually I already had cameras at my house that
I had installed in two thousand and eight. The technology
from two thousand and eight to twenty fourteen to changed
a lot when it came to cameras.

Speaker 9 (01:10:10):
You mentioned that I'm sorry to have to do. I
think you mentioned all that on direct I'm referring to
this particular update that was done post homicide. You were
in communication with this camera guy, and I think your
lawyer mentioned this. You had eighty four text messages with
him dating back to January twentieth of twenty fourteen, in
regards to the update that occurred post murder. Do you

(01:10:33):
agree with that?

Speaker 21 (01:10:34):
I know we was always taught that we were going
to get cameras in the office, and we just never
got around to it when this happened that week, Within
probably three days, I called the camera guy up and
I said, I get cameras in my house and my
new cameras from my house, and I want to get
cameras in my office. How soon can you come out
and do it? And then he came out, i'd say
four or five days after that, bought the equipment and

(01:10:54):
installed it that week.

Speaker 9 (01:10:55):
Did you hire a private investigator to help you with
this problem you were having with the extortion?

Speaker 21 (01:11:03):
Yes, no, I didn't tell anybody.

Speaker 9 (01:11:05):
Did you get a bodyguard?

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
No.

Speaker 21 (01:11:07):
I carried a gun on me. I was slept with
the sleep with a gun next to me in bed,
and carried a gun on my person and had a
gun in my car at all times.

Speaker 9 (01:11:13):
Do you recall a statement you made on the Dulce
Vita recording that said you were going to start carrying
a gun.

Speaker 21 (01:11:20):
Yeah, because for a long time after this happened, I
was carrying a gun and it's uncomfortable and I don't
always like carrying a gun. So I hadn't carried a
gun in a while, and I was going to start
carrying one again.

Speaker 9 (01:11:30):
But you did say in twenty sixteen, I'm going to
start carrying one.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 21 (01:11:34):
I carried probably for about four to six months after
this happened. And and I wear score ups, so the
gun that I had can kind of stick out and
it's uncomfortable. I prefer not to carry a gun.

Speaker 9 (01:11:44):
So you quit carrying it. But during the time you
were still paying the extortion money, yes, all right, And
the extortion money that you were paying three thousand dollars
a month, that wasn't going towards the principle of whatever
was left on the three hundred and thirty three thousand, right,
didn't you testify to that?

Speaker 21 (01:11:58):
Correct?

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
All right?

Speaker 9 (01:11:59):
So you ever came up with the remaining bault of
the money that you owed, and nobody ever came after
you for that.

Speaker 21 (01:12:07):
No, they said you could pay it all off and
it will be done, or just pay You paid three
thousand a month, so I thought about paying a full amount, right.

Speaker 9 (01:12:15):
Then, a couple of weeks later, after the initial extortion,
you and Catherine macdanwell broke up. According to your director,
have that right?

Speaker 21 (01:12:22):
That's not correct?

Speaker 9 (01:12:22):
When did you break up?

Speaker 21 (01:12:24):
Within a week I met her who went out to dinner.
We went out to eat, and I just said, this
has got to end, all right.

Speaker 9 (01:12:29):
So you broke up with her? Yes, weren't you scared
that if you broke up with her, that she would
stick the Latin Kings on you. No, because I had
every intention of paying every month.

Speaker 21 (01:12:38):
When I broke up with her and I said, listen,
I don't want to surround myself with this. I'm scared.
She said that she was going to come every month
and pick up the money and protect me, and she
understood me. Our relationship was on the rocks.

Speaker 9 (01:12:50):
Did you justified that all the gifts and stuff that
you gave her were to keep her happy? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:12:58):
So, is Wendy gonna show up at this trial like
she did at Charlie's trial and say the first she
heard about this extortion was at Charlie's trial. I mean,
here's who's on the witness list for Donna, James Todd Murphy.
This is this media guy who's gonna, I guess, testify
that this case has gotten so much media. I don't

(01:13:20):
know how that's gonna help her particularly, But okay, Wendy Adelson,
Susan Broadman, and Richard Chagrin. Those were the two people,
if I'm right, that were there when she got that
call when she was taped saying she's going to end
it all her flee. Maybe she'll get out in time.

(01:13:42):
They were helping her get her affairs in order before
they fleed. Annie Cunningham who's helping her close down shop,
her friend Ron Gutterson. I'm not sure who he is.
Lisa Carrie to Timothy Kelly, Christine Adamson, Tara Kaywass. Who's

(01:14:05):
Marousel Descalo, who's going to say that she might testify
that I think she's a substitute for Dan Rashbaum because
I guess Dan can't testify because of all the conflicts now,
but Marousel's going to say that she's free to flee

(01:14:26):
to Vietnam. Tara Kayas Katie mcbanaa's lawyer, Linda Bailey Eddie
Varnes from Score Investigations and consulting her private investigator. I
guess Josiah roll Off, and sometimes he's listed as Josh Rolloff,

(01:14:50):
so I'm not sure which from roll Off digital Forensics,
but here he's listed he's an expert in digital forensics.
And then there's Kelsey Guy from the same digital forensics
she testified in another case, high profile case. Taroma Kahn

(01:15:13):
Craig Isam Jason Newlan, Charles Adelson, a Ferman law that's
who's doing is and then all these people from the
Tallahassee to police Department, Catherine mcbanoa, Luis Rivera. She wants
to take as her own if they don't testify, which
they will expert witness measures attorney reasonably take to protect

(01:15:37):
privileged communication expert to be disclosed upon retention. Kestonian of
records from Verizon, att and Google all witnesses identified by
the state. So, I mean she's got a long list.
I mean I skip past different people, Jessica Rodriguez, Felicia Hill, Rice.

Speaker 9 (01:16:03):
Google.

Speaker 8 (01:16:10):
So yeah, a lot of a lot of different people.

Speaker 21 (01:16:17):
Yeah. When I when I realized that she's the one
who's protecting me and she wasn't a part of this exortion,
I had no problem keeping her happy, and I looked
for things that do nice things to do for her
because she was broke.

Speaker 9 (01:16:27):
But not worried about pissing her off by breaking.

Speaker 7 (01:16:30):
Up with her.

Speaker 21 (01:16:31):
Well, she our relationship was definitely on the rocks after
July first, when sig Fredo cut me off and threatened
me and called my dad, and then she knew. I
didn't even invite her to my dad's birthday party, which
was family gathering with family friends on July fifth, She
knew we were pretty much we were going to be done.

Speaker 9 (01:16:49):
After you broke up with kathay Nadanama a week after
the murder, did you continue to talk to her?

Speaker 21 (01:16:56):
We still communicated for sure, talking about phone and Texas.

Speaker 9 (01:16:59):
Yeah, and meet up.

Speaker 21 (01:17:01):
No, the only time I would see her was I
saw her again the end of August. She came and
picked up the money. And that's when she asked me
if I could put her on the books because none
of this money was going to her and she was
needed to get health insurance for her kids. So I said, yeah,
I'll do it and help you out.

Speaker 9 (01:17:17):
And did you continue to hook up with her after
the breakup? And by that, I mean you know I
have sex with her?

Speaker 21 (01:17:23):
There was one occasion. There was one time that we
hooked up.

Speaker 9 (01:17:26):
Okay, When was that?

Speaker 21 (01:17:27):
I want to say it was probably about five months
after we broken up.

Speaker 9 (01:17:31):
Okay, Well, there was one other occasion before that in
October of twenty fourteen. Do you recall that October ninth
of twenty fourteen.

Speaker 21 (01:17:38):
That's probably occasion I'm talking about this July only count
the months July, August, September, October, So okay, so four
months okay, and.

Speaker 9 (01:17:45):
There's another one on October fifteenth. You remember that one?

Speaker 22 (01:17:49):
No?

Speaker 21 (01:17:49):
I think I just I think we did hook up
about one time?

Speaker 9 (01:17:52):
Okay, well, one time on October ninth and one time
on October fifteenth.

Speaker 21 (01:17:55):
I thought it was one time. If it was two times,
it's been.

Speaker 9 (01:17:58):
Could it have been two times?

Speaker 21 (01:18:00):
But no more?

Speaker 9 (01:18:01):
And on August twenty fifth, fourteen, that would have been
after the break up, right, Yeah, You text her and
then she replies, I don't need help. I'm good, don't
need favors, nor will I trust anyone again. Erase my number.
Please go on with your life like you did already
and have been doing. Sorry we spoke today. I don't

(01:18:24):
want to stress your life more. Don't do anything for me.
Do you remember receiving that text from Katharine Vanda?

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 21 (01:18:29):
Sound similar.

Speaker 9 (01:18:30):
That's a pretty weird text to get from the extortionists.
You're meeting her to give her money. Why is she
saying I erase my number?

Speaker 21 (01:18:37):
She's not the extortionist nine in twenty fourteen, I didn't
think she was.

Speaker 9 (01:18:43):
The extortionist, right, but it's been revealed that she.

Speaker 21 (01:18:45):
Was in twenty nineteen. So you're taking what was known
in twenty nineteen, and you're trying to say I knew.

Speaker 9 (01:18:51):
What I knew in life?

Speaker 8 (01:18:52):
Wait, so if he raises the payment right way? So
if he raises Katie mcbhandaa's number right, how is he
going to pay his How is he gonna who is
he gonna pay his payment? Plans to? What plans did
he have? Then surprised that wasn't asked?

Speaker 9 (01:19:15):
Trying to say you knew. I'm trying to say she knew,
she knew she was the extortionist. Why is she telling
you to erase her number and leave her alone?

Speaker 21 (01:19:24):
Because I broke up with her exactly?

Speaker 9 (01:19:26):
On nine fourteen or nine to eleven of fourteen, she
sends you hashtag bestie for life. Do you remember that?
Sounds so did you all have some kind of reconciliation
after the breakoup?

Speaker 21 (01:19:38):
No, I was probably doing a favor and making her
happy with something.

Speaker 9 (01:19:40):
On ten six of twenty fourteen, I love you. It
makes me feel good that you care about me. I'm
lucky to have you as part of my life. Do
you remember sending that to her?

Speaker 7 (01:19:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (01:19:53):
On ten nine of fourteen, I mentioned.

Speaker 8 (01:19:58):
I'm so lucky that you know people who will murder
my sister's ex husband. For me, that's that's really about going.

Speaker 9 (01:20:07):
To the details of it again. Ten to fifteen more
sex talk ten twenty three or fourteen. Thank you again
for everything you're doing for my mommy, She sends you out.
What were you doing for her mother?

Speaker 21 (01:20:18):
I don't know. I think I was. I get a
console for her, Vie do anything for her mom.

Speaker 8 (01:20:25):
Yeah, I think he gave her his MoMA Cruz, although
he says he doesn't remember. But I mean, if you
look at let me just show you this for a second.
So just in relation to Donna's trial, taking quick so
look at the bottom of this. So this is their
evidence list for the defense. So best buy, appointment record,

(01:20:50):
bump note, bump letter and text message, two and sixteen
wire calls, twenty and twenty wire calls. So this is
when they this is what they call this investigation when
they wired Harvey Aedelson and they make a big deal

(01:21:15):
about they want to show her her visitation logs from
Leon County, her detention facility calendars were scheduled attorney client visits.
So this supports, I mean, in a very roundabout way,
the idea that her lawyers they're going to try to

(01:21:35):
prove that her lawyers weren't allowing her to go beyond these,
beyond being monitored by the jailhouse calls to use their phone,
so they wouldn't be monitored because attorney client conversation is
privileged to talk to Harvey about doing whatever she was doing.

(01:22:00):
Summary exhibit of jail house calls between Donna and Harvey
Aedelson from October twenty twenty four to April twenty twenty five.
So again this supports this idea that this is going
to be a huge part in a new part of
the something we haven't heard before of the state's case

(01:22:25):
against Donna. Again one more time, Donna creating her own evidence.
Does everybody see this? Can everybody see this back there?
At least if I can make it.

Speaker 23 (01:22:34):
A little bit bigger for you.

Speaker 8 (01:22:36):
Look at this, So I mean they can. And then
artwork and Christmas note from Drena Bernhardt to Missus Adelson.
They have some artwork sounds like from Missus Adelson to Drina.
Apparently they were very close. That's what's come out. I
don't know if it's true or not. We're gonna have

(01:22:58):
to see a trial. But May sixth, twenty sixteen, Donna
Adelson's travel documents, visa passport, pictures from Harvey Aedelson's birthday party.
Katherine mcmannon was terrible. Pro offers voto of missus Adelson's

(01:23:20):
dress for grandson's bar Mitzvah. Picture of Adolsen's safe and
its contents. Oh, I guess bury me in the dress. Oh,
she's saying for her remember for Ben's bar Mitzvah. She's
saying that. I guess that's why that's important. Weather records,

(01:23:48):
accident records for the true Oh, so they're going to
say she couldn't have dropped off the money. Summary exhibit
of calls between Jackie Bulford and Harvey adel and cellular
devices forthcoming. There we go. There, it is probable cause
affid David's research bar interesting. All right, back to this,

(01:24:13):
Back to Charlie Edelson.

Speaker 9 (01:24:18):
Two twenty four or fifteen. You agree that she always
knows how to make you smile, and you say I
love you to her. Remember that.

Speaker 21 (01:24:26):
Yeah. I cared a lot about Katie, and I didn't
think that she was a part of it. So I
was always trying to keep her happy and make her happy,
and I felt like she got caught up, dragged into
something that she shouldn't have been dragged into.

Speaker 9 (01:24:36):
Okay, maybe, but she dragged you into it as well.

Speaker 21 (01:24:38):
I didn't see it like that at all, and our
relationship actually got stronger. You know. Initially, when I got extorted,
I had limited contact with her and I was colder,
And then over time I realized that she's the one
who's protecting me, and she's not involved with these people
because the extortion never went up, and Katie was always broke.

Speaker 9 (01:24:56):
She was involved with them because she was had a child.
I help with the.

Speaker 21 (01:25:00):
Guy, right, I didn't know for sure it was him.

Speaker 9 (01:25:03):
But you suspected always that it was him.

Speaker 21 (01:25:05):
I always suspected that sig Freyo was behind this.

Speaker 9 (01:25:07):
So wouldn't you want to distance yourself from this woman?

Speaker 10 (01:25:09):
Who?

Speaker 3 (01:25:10):
I mean?

Speaker 9 (01:25:10):
Were you ever really that serious about her to begin with?

Speaker 21 (01:25:14):
I mean we spent seven eight months together.

Speaker 9 (01:25:17):
But you were never considering marrying her?

Speaker 21 (01:25:19):
No, I wasn't concerned.

Speaker 9 (01:25:20):
I mean, you were a playboy, right, you had a
Zillian girlfriend.

Speaker 21 (01:25:23):
That's that is actually not even true.

Speaker 9 (01:25:25):
Okay, did you have a lot of girlfriends?

Speaker 21 (01:25:27):
I had two girlfriends in the two or three years
after her bacated Whitney kick for nine months.

Speaker 9 (01:25:34):
Okay, But how many women were you talking to and
engaging with sexually? A lot more than Whitney.

Speaker 21 (01:25:38):
Kick right, there could have been one or two or more.

Speaker 9 (01:25:41):
No, okay, point being you were not going to marry
a caath Innvam.

Speaker 21 (01:25:47):
I wasn't having marriage plans now and you have.

Speaker 9 (01:25:51):
Now broken up with her after this incident. Yes, she's
the person that's taking the money from you physically.

Speaker 21 (01:26:00):
She's the one I looked at it. She's the one
who's protecting me. If she wasn't, I was going to
get a VISI.

Speaker 9 (01:26:04):
Is she the one that was physically taking the money?

Speaker 7 (01:26:06):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (01:26:06):
Is she the one that was connected to the person
who suspected to have killed your brother in law.

Speaker 21 (01:26:12):
I thought she was tied to that person. Yes.

Speaker 9 (01:26:14):
And she's the one that got you into this, right
because she ran her mouth and.

Speaker 21 (01:26:19):
I looked at that. I ran my mouth too. If
I never said anything to her, this would never have happened.
So I felt responsible for saying something to her in
the first place.

Speaker 9 (01:26:27):
But you didn't feel responsible enough to try to do
anything about her sitting in jail an innocent woman for
three years. Did you?

Speaker 21 (01:26:33):
She never contacted me?

Speaker 9 (01:26:34):
You didn't offer to testify in her trial. You let
her get convicted and get life in prison.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
Didn't you.

Speaker 21 (01:26:38):
I thought the truth was going to come out, but
not through you. That was never contacted. I thought it
was going to come out through her.

Speaker 9 (01:26:45):
Was there any contact between your lawyers and her lawyers?

Speaker 21 (01:26:48):
You'd have to ask them.

Speaker 9 (01:26:49):
You said you didn't have any contact with her, any
contact with so your lawyers didn't tell you anything on
behalf of her lawyers.

Speaker 21 (01:26:55):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 9 (01:26:56):
And her lawyers didn't hear anything from your lawyers.

Speaker 21 (01:26:58):
I don't know what lawyers talk about, but I can
tell you that I never talked to Katie and I
never told my lawyers.

Speaker 9 (01:27:03):
You never relate a message through your lawyers that the
Adelson family would not be talking in this case.

Speaker 21 (01:27:08):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 9 (01:27:09):
She had nothing to worry about as far as that
end was concerned.

Speaker 21 (01:27:11):
That's not true at all.

Speaker 8 (01:27:13):
I think it is true. I think it is true.

Speaker 9 (01:27:20):
Did you or your agent contact her brother to offer
to assist with her attorney's fees in her case?

Speaker 21 (01:27:26):
That's a complete lie.

Speaker 9 (01:27:31):
On ten twenty seven of fifteen, you say you can't
wait to get lunch with her.

Speaker 8 (01:27:34):
She's the right, But Katherine mcmanoa, I trust Katherine mcmanoa
testified that they reached out to her brother to say,
we'll pay your attorney's fees. The tight Adosson's who don't
want to pay five thousand dollars, but they want to
pay Catherine McDonald was lawyer's fees for two lawyers and

(01:27:54):
two trials.

Speaker 9 (01:27:56):
Yes, and you're lucky to have her as a friend
for life, did you say that?

Speaker 21 (01:27:59):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (01:28:00):
Ten twenty seven fifteen, you can't wait to get lunch
with her. Ten thirty fifteen, you tell her you miss her.
Twelve nine of fifteen again, you tell her she's the best.

Speaker 21 (01:28:09):
Yeah, it's I said all those things.

Speaker 9 (01:28:10):
Do you agree that this picture does not look like
a relationship between an extortionist and her victim?

Speaker 21 (01:28:16):
I agree because Katie wasn't the extortionist. She was the
extortionist in twenty fourteen and twenty and fifteen. I didn't
believe that.

Speaker 9 (01:28:22):
I know you didn't believe it. But we're looking back now, Okay.

Speaker 21 (01:28:26):
You know it's like, if you're going to quote me,
date me, like, at what I knew in twenty fourteen,
and what I knew in twenty fifteen is not what
I know now. In twenty twenty Okay, Yes.

Speaker 9 (01:28:34):
I hear you. You didn't know then, and that's why
you were nice to her.

Speaker 21 (01:28:38):
Yeah, I thought she was protecting me, got it.

Speaker 9 (01:28:40):
And none of those factors that I pointed out waied
into that consideration, that she ran her mouth, that she
brought the Latin Kings on you, she was taking the
money from you, none of that counterbalanced it. You were
still gonna be friends with her and keep her happy.

Speaker 21 (01:28:52):
You're wrong. I didn't know about the Latin Kings in
twenty and fourteen or twenty fifteen.

Speaker 24 (01:28:58):
All Right.

Speaker 9 (01:28:59):
The love text, which is what I'm referring to, all
these texts where you're still nice to this person after
you break up with her. You're still doing favors for
this person after you break up with her. Mean, that's
like a major problem for your defense, isn't it.

Speaker 21 (01:29:09):
No, a relationship got stronger. I agree, our relationship got stronger,
but it was much different.

Speaker 9 (01:29:13):
Isn't that why she has to be an innocent conduit
between you and the bad guys, Because if those texts
didn't exist, she would be the extortionist and a bad
actor and this whole thing.

Speaker 21 (01:29:23):
Right, I'm not following your theory.

Speaker 9 (01:29:24):
You have to explain away those texts, don't.

Speaker 21 (01:29:26):
You, Doctor, No, I have to sit here and tell
you the truth, and now you're finding it out.

Speaker 9 (01:29:35):
Most people don't send kissy vases to people that are
extorting money out of them. I mean she was taking your.

Speaker 21 (01:29:41):
Money again, miss Capitolman. She was not extorting me at
the time.

Speaker 9 (01:29:44):
That's not how it's done it.

Speaker 21 (01:29:46):
I'm telling you how it was done.

Speaker 9 (01:29:48):
So then over these next two years, you would meet
her monthly and hand over a bundle of checks and
three thousand dollars in cash.

Speaker 21 (01:29:53):
Right, No, you're wrong. Tell me I would hand over
two thousand dollars in cash and a bundle of checks.

Speaker 9 (01:29:58):
Two thousand dollars in cash, a bundle of checks, and
so over the course of two years. I'm terrible at math,
but that's roughly how much money because I did. I
think I did three thousand dollars. It's forty eight thousand
dollars in cash in addition to the one hundred and
thirty eight you provided the night up. You agree with.

Speaker 21 (01:30:14):
That if your math is correct. I'm just telling you
what I paid her each morning.

Speaker 9 (01:30:17):
And the checks, which is another seventeen thousand dollars.

Speaker 21 (01:30:23):
Right, You're doing the math.

Speaker 9 (01:30:26):
It was a lot of money. Was it a lot
of money to you?

Speaker 21 (01:30:28):
It was a lot of money to me. Yeah, I
worked hard.

Speaker 9 (01:30:37):
Did the extortionists, whoever they were, ever try to increase
the payments or come from more money.

Speaker 21 (01:30:42):
The extortion never went up, and Katie was always broke.
And that's what led me to think that she was
not a part of this because she could have easily
jacked up the payments.

Speaker 9 (01:30:50):
Well, she's sharing three grand a month with a bunch
of other.

Speaker 21 (01:30:54):
People, right, at least one other I didn't think she
was sharing. Why is she coming to me for three
hundred dollars for her kid's birthday because she's broke, because
she wasn't getting any of the money.

Speaker 9 (01:31:01):
Half of three grand doesn't do much when you're living
in Miami with two kids to feed, right.

Speaker 21 (01:31:05):
I didn't think she was sharing anything.

Speaker 9 (01:31:07):
Well, even if she was sharing it, if that's your point,
she must not have been taking the money because she
was broke. And my point is she could have been
taking half the money and been broke.

Speaker 21 (01:31:14):
That's not how a lot of money, That's not how
I saw it.

Speaker 9 (01:31:20):
Tell me about Dan Markhill a little bit. What you've
sort of said, what I heard correctly if I'm wrong,
was he was, you know, a nice enough guy, typical
Wendy boyfriend, but not really your.

Speaker 13 (01:31:31):
Kind of guy.

Speaker 21 (01:31:32):
Yeah, the thing's an accurate description, right.

Speaker 9 (01:31:34):
Do you agree that he was this brilliant legal mind.

Speaker 21 (01:31:38):
I think he was a little a nerdy, nice guy,
just kind of like the average guy that my sister dated.

Speaker 9 (01:31:44):
Not the kind of guy you want to have a
beer with.

Speaker 21 (01:31:46):
Though we never had a beer together. I mean not
that I wouldn't have had a beer if we wanted
to have one. We just didn't have that much in common.
But he was always nice to me.

Speaker 9 (01:31:53):
Do you appreciate the fact that his death was a
terrible loss to his sons?

Speaker 21 (01:31:56):
It was horrible.

Speaker 9 (01:31:57):
Do you think they were better off without him?

Speaker 21 (01:31:59):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 9 (01:32:00):
Did you host a celebration dinner after his murder?

Speaker 8 (01:32:03):
That's a complete I love that so the when he
was asked that, absolutely, When he was asked, did you
were on the direct did you take part in the
murder of Dan Marcel, he says absolutely No. I was
like a contradiction. Absolutely, this is again absolutely And I

(01:32:25):
was just reading about Marty Tankliffe of I did an
episode on him, one of my more favorite episodes I've
done called did Keith Rinari, who's the Nexium Guru, is
now doing one hundred and twenty years for trafficking and
other offenses. I covered his trial from the hearings to

(01:32:48):
his to his the actual trial to the sentencing of
everyone involved in that case. And Marty Tankliffe, who was
convicted of killing his adopted parents, Arlene and Seymour tanklip
He says the same thing, absolutely and they they say absolutely.

(01:33:10):
So the statement analysis we're analyzing his interviews and his
nine one one call said that absolutely is a word
we used to persuade and is flagged for deception in
statement analysis. Interesting and it's another favorite of Charlie Agielson,
who we're listening to.

Speaker 9 (01:33:30):
Here on the wire. Would you agree that the markl
boys were in the background pretty much at every call
you had with your mom and you would hear them
a lot.

Speaker 21 (01:33:37):
Right, My sister was working, so my parents would help
my sister out.

Speaker 7 (01:33:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:33:41):
Yeah, and it was summertime so they were out of school.

Speaker 21 (01:33:43):
I would assume I don't know if it was every call,
but they definitely helped my sister out.

Speaker 9 (01:33:46):
For sure, all right, And those calls captured Donna pushing
them on the swings. That call that tortured all of
us a couple of times.

Speaker 21 (01:33:51):
Or remember that one Yeah, there was a call where
she was pushing them on the.

Speaker 9 (01:33:54):
Swing, taking them to tennis lessons that.

Speaker 21 (01:33:57):
That was the same day. That was the same call
that got broken up and she called me back.

Speaker 9 (01:34:00):
But yes, doing their bedtime routine, helping my sister out
for sure, reading stories, brushing teeth, getting haircuts, going to piano,
story time and bedtime, all of that kind of stuff.

Speaker 8 (01:34:09):
I mean, she had them going to school like right
next to right next to her home. We saw that
in the bump, all stuff.

Speaker 21 (01:34:23):
That parents and grandparents do. You're right, all right.

Speaker 9 (01:34:25):
She even said to you on one of the calls
regarding the bedtime routine, that quote, we have a whole
routine going. Do you remember that?

Speaker 21 (01:34:30):
I think I have a whole routine with my son
at me. I think it's normal with kids, you have
a routine to put them to bed, right, can't forget
to brush your teeth?

Speaker 9 (01:34:38):
All the yeah, tell hammer couldn't hurt, right?

Speaker 21 (01:34:41):
What's that?

Speaker 9 (01:34:42):
All the kind all the things that you know your
mom wouldn't have been able to do as readily if
the kids were living in Tallahassee. I agree with that.

Speaker 21 (01:34:49):
I mean, when they come up to visit them, they'd
be doing the same thing.

Speaker 9 (01:34:51):
Sure when they came up to visit, but now they're
doing it every day, right.

Speaker 21 (01:34:54):
Not every day, but when my sister needed them, she
helped them out.

Speaker 9 (01:34:57):
And these are all things, these little routine things that
Dan Mark I will never be able to do with
his sons.

Speaker 21 (01:35:01):
To agree with that absolutely.

Speaker 9 (01:35:04):
Does your mom have a favorite child?

Speaker 21 (01:35:06):
She says she doesn't have favorites, but I don't think
she likes my older brother.

Speaker 9 (01:35:10):
But it's Wendy the favorite.

Speaker 21 (01:35:13):
I'd like to think it's a tie and her.

Speaker 8 (01:35:15):
I mean, is she what is godna gonna do? She's
asked this, it's Wendy the favorite. It's only when she says,
when she says, my son's doesn't talk to me anymore.
The sunny should she could be dead. He's in prison.
This is some of my words, not a direct quote.
But then she says, and my daughter, who I love,

(01:35:37):
won't talk to me. This family is cursed. So what
is she gonna say on the stand. I mean, it's
only when she said she loves. I mean, her version
of love is just who she can control. I mean, really,
does she have the most control over it? Sounds like Wendy.

(01:35:59):
I don't know. I love all my children. I tried
to do the best for them. I mean, that's what
it's going to be. It's going to be poor Wendy
the martyr, I think, I mean, poor Donna the martyr
on the stand, that's what we're going to see.

Speaker 9 (01:36:11):
Does her mom worry more about Wendy than you before
this case?

Speaker 21 (01:36:19):
No, I don't. I mean I don't. I think maybe
in different parts of my life, she's probably more concerned
about me different parts of my sister's life, and maybe
more concerned about her.

Speaker 9 (01:36:25):
Is it true that your mom has a tendency to
worry herself sick if there's something going on with.

Speaker 21 (01:36:29):
One of you kids. She's a concerned mom, But I
think she's a normal mom.

Speaker 9 (01:36:35):
Was she pretty worried about Wendy's marital problems?

Speaker 21 (01:36:39):
No, she wasn't. I think No. I think she'd get
upset when my sister would tell her things that Danny
was doing and going to work bad mouthing her. But
I think any parent would.

Speaker 9 (01:36:49):
But also she would meticulously go through all the filings
and send long emails detailing her thoughts about every filing
and this divorce.

Speaker 21 (01:36:56):
No, don't. I don't think that's the case at all.

Speaker 9 (01:36:58):
Okay, did she hate Dan Markel?

Speaker 21 (01:37:01):
I think she liked him in the beginning for sure.
And I think when he was being a jerk to
my sister, I think that. I don't think anyone particularly
liked him when he was being a jerkan.

Speaker 9 (01:37:09):
What about the time around the time that he was killed.
Did your mother hate Dan Markel?

Speaker 10 (01:37:12):
No?

Speaker 21 (01:37:13):
I think it's kind of like tapered off. I think
this it was only she only disliked him when he
was being mean to my sister. Other than that, your.

Speaker 9 (01:37:20):
Sister during these divorce proceedings and subsequent location.

Speaker 8 (01:37:23):
All right, so we're going to see this. I was
getting along with him, he asked me the babysit. I
made him banana bread that he just couldn't eat. I
made him banana bread in my non kosher oven. It
could he could use it as a football or a
What does she think he's going to do with that
banana bread? It makes a good paper weight after a

(01:37:49):
couple of days, banana bread. I think we're going to
hear about that. That the relationship was wonderful right before
it went through some hard time. But it was really
wonderful the relationship right before his murdered.

Speaker 21 (01:38:05):
Right, I think it was on and off. I think
it was sporadic.

Speaker 9 (01:38:07):
And when your mom's worried about Wendy, does she come
to you for solutions or to tap things out?

Speaker 21 (01:38:13):
No, I don't think it. I don't think worried is
the right word to describe it.

Speaker 9 (01:38:16):
Does she ever make Wendy's problems your problems? No, like
convincing you to get Wendy to pull the plug on
the house on Halloween twenty thirteen, didn't she convince you
to sort of take up that cause?

Speaker 21 (01:38:27):
No, that was actually me. I thought I shared my
thoughts on home ownership for my sister. That was all me.

Speaker 9 (01:38:32):
Then you say that if she had bought that house,
that would have been the second worst decision of Wendy's life.

Speaker 21 (01:38:37):
I thought it was going to be a stupid decision
to buy that house.

Speaker 9 (01:38:39):
And what was the first worst decision of Wendy's life?

Speaker 21 (01:38:43):
Oh, I thought when she I mean looking on high
sight twenty twenty, I think when she she'd agreed when
she married Dan, And did.

Speaker 9 (01:38:49):
You convince her to take a particular job as well.
Remember that call.

Speaker 21 (01:38:54):
Yeah, she uh, she got an offer from a law
firm and she was debating whether or not she should
take it. She didn't know if it was exactly what
she wanted to do. And I was like, hey, you don't.
You don't know what you don't like doing until you've
done it. Seems like a great opportunity, Like why not
do it? Learn the job skill? It's a skill you
don't She's like, well, I don't have that skill. I'm like, well,
it's a good opportunity to learn it and you may
like it, and if you don't like it, then try

(01:39:14):
something else. But I was trying to encourage her to
take what sounded like a great opportunity.

Speaker 9 (01:39:18):
And Mom shared your thoughts, and I'm referring to Donna
Ayelsen shared your thoughts about this opportunity being a good
one for Winny.

Speaker 21 (01:39:23):
Right, I probably heard about the job from my mom,
but I definitely heard about it from my sister. Talking
to my sister about it, Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:39:30):
I mean the job was not what she was had
any experience in, right, it's a whole other field of law.

Speaker 21 (01:39:35):
Then that was my point. It was like, well, why
not take it if they're offering it to you and
you can learn something new, it sounds like a great opportunity.

Speaker 9 (01:39:41):
Do you and Donna know right?

Speaker 8 (01:39:43):
Maybe you know? Maybe be be my assistant in start
learning the dustry, started helping me with some implants. Root
can nows no thought it was a great opportun unity
for Wendy. She was a totally sure she's never done
it before. But what's stopping her?

Speaker 9 (01:40:08):
What's best for Wendy better than she knows herself?

Speaker 21 (01:40:11):
No, but not at all.

Speaker 9 (01:40:13):
Were you a spy when it came to Wendy? Did
you get information from Donna? I mean from Wendy and
relay it.

Speaker 21 (01:40:18):
To Donna at times? Because I was I was dating
Brie and Bri worked for Dave, so I would hear
stuff about Dave from Brie. So I kind of had
an inside I got inside information.

Speaker 9 (01:40:28):
In what capacity did Brie work for Dave?

Speaker 21 (01:40:32):
Dave was his?

Speaker 3 (01:40:33):
Uh?

Speaker 21 (01:40:33):
After she graduated from college? She was working as Annie
for Dave?

Speaker 9 (01:40:37):
All right? And how old was Bree during the time
you were dating her? She significantly younger than you.

Speaker 21 (01:40:41):
She was twenty four and I was thirty nine.

Speaker 9 (01:40:45):
Is that the is Bree the mother of your child?

Speaker 21 (01:40:47):
She is the mother and my child.

Speaker 9 (01:40:48):
Yeah all right, So back to Wendy, Wendy and Donna.
So Wendy was she tight lipped with Donna about her
private life.

Speaker 21 (01:40:56):
I don't think she shared everything, but.

Speaker 9 (01:40:59):
She would tell me to you that you wouldn't.

Speaker 21 (01:41:01):
Tell the donn I can't say that for sure.

Speaker 9 (01:41:06):
Can you play clip one please? Publishing called e E
E E E E.

Speaker 24 (01:41:18):
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, h.

Speaker 14 (01:41:40):
M hm yeah, honestly.

Speaker 6 (01:41:59):
Uh anyway, So I just took it.

Speaker 3 (01:42:02):
How did you?

Speaker 6 (01:42:05):
I was a little part she's just soer than me.
But his birthday started that one making him a little
party in oh really yeah, when he goes like very tight,
lit're not thing? So she needed to do? Is you
know she's obviously tightening present and that should want to

(01:42:26):
know anything anything? I pointed you, sho didn't want don't
know anything. They don't ask anything's happy and and I
just find everything out.

Speaker 9 (01:42:34):
To to tell you.

Speaker 13 (01:42:35):
I know, so I could.

Speaker 6 (01:42:37):
I was like, so what do you doing for your birthday?
He's like, well, what do you think of me? Like
a little Berkeley dinner, a little get together party? Like awesome.
He's like yeah, He's like, I don't know anything. Why
when he's putting it together for me and he's doing
his work with.

Speaker 12 (01:42:50):
So or I knew was that she was going to
street from work to the hotels.

Speaker 6 (01:42:55):
Everybody just my Ani Fellar states that should come and.

Speaker 3 (01:43:06):
In between she managed.

Speaker 6 (01:43:10):
Especially I couldn't imagine.

Speaker 13 (01:43:16):
Yes, yes, do.

Speaker 9 (01:43:26):
You remember yesterday since you were telling a story about
Katie coming in from having had some kind of altercation
with Garcia and she had reported that the necklace even
just pulled off her neck. Do you remember that?

Speaker 21 (01:43:42):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (01:43:42):
I do, all right, And when you were relaying that
story to the jury, you use a specific term describing
what Garcia had done to her. Do you remember what
that term was?

Speaker 21 (01:43:51):
It was only esperating the got the refreshment re member.

Speaker 9 (01:43:53):
How I described it, you said he roughed her up.
That's accurate, and that put my intenta out because up
ruffed them up is the exact same phrase that Katherine
mag Banaa said in her profer that you used on
Halloween twenty thirteen when you first approached her about does
she know anyone who can rough someone up?

Speaker 21 (01:44:14):
I think getting ruped up as an adjective. But what
you're doing is the same thing you did with your TV.
PORI is like you heard TV mentioned multiple times, So
you put the whole case together with the TV. Okay,
we're getting both case together with the word roughed up.

Speaker 9 (01:44:25):
Yeah, I'm not putting the whole case together.

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Don't they go over each other? But that's a new
point for him to answer. Then you can answer ask
your next question.

Speaker 9 (01:44:35):
But that's an unusual I mean, you know it's a
specific term. I'm not making a whole case out of it.
But did you say roughed up in both places?

Speaker 21 (01:44:44):
Katie was ruffed up by sip Fredo when he tore
the necklace off from her neck.

Speaker 9 (01:44:47):
Yes, And isn't that the same term you used when
you first broached Katherine magbanaa about couldn't did she know
someone who could rough up someone else?

Speaker 21 (01:44:54):
Never, in my life, if I ever asked her that question,
ever in my life, that conversation ever took place.

Speaker 9 (01:44:59):
Did you ever hear Donna Adelson referred to Dan Markel
as stupid?

Speaker 7 (01:45:03):
Uh?

Speaker 10 (01:45:03):
No?

Speaker 9 (01:45:05):
Were you laughing when Wendy was on the stand and
I read all the names that Donna referred to Dan
Markel as?

Speaker 10 (01:45:12):
No?

Speaker 21 (01:45:12):
I laughed when you said the word fuck her in court?

Speaker 9 (01:45:14):
Okay, what did she mean when she said Dan Markel
was trying to take her sunshines away?

Speaker 21 (01:45:19):
You know, my mom never said that. That was made
up and he put it in a court filing. And
then now it becomes something that my mom said because
someone made it up and put it in a court filing,
and she never said that.

Speaker 9 (01:45:31):
Did your mom refer to the children as her sunshines?

Speaker 21 (01:45:33):
No, the kids were three and four. Three and four
year old can't repeat a conversation and remember words six
hours later and repeat it accurately. I have a five
year old son. I've never seen a three and four
year old do that, so it was.

Speaker 8 (01:45:44):
Well, those kids were pretty pretty uh smart. I'd say
that if any three or four year old is going
to repeat something, I think they I don't know. I
never bought that argument.

Speaker 10 (01:46:01):
You know.

Speaker 8 (01:46:02):
Curious, you know when they talk about all those under
maybe all that I have such a bad sense of time.
I really thought I've had so much more stuff for
this episode. I thought I would breeze through this, but
I don't know. I guess I'm gonna go along today.
I'm going to finish this up. But you know, I

(01:46:22):
guess Donna could deny saying all that. But I mean,
it's pretty odd that they're using words. She uses my
sun shines. I mean, I'm pretty sure that was her
word for it, but I can't remember where else it
was detailed suggests that phrase. And then strangely, this state

(01:46:52):
isn't going to bring up her grandcho kids. Strangely, she's
not going to bring up her grandcha kids to testify
if they were or anything from three and four. They've
been through enough thanks to the Eelson family. So I
don't know, it just seems like, you know, when Donna's

(01:47:14):
going to be cross examined on all those emails, it's
so damning. Then the undercover stuff ditto, damn it. And
she's arrogant, and you can see that she doesn't deal well,
and of course her fleeing. I mean, just to put
it right in the middle here, just give us a
break from Charlie Edelson. Here is where she asks why

(01:47:39):
she fled. Just turn off the close captions why she
fled with a one way ticket to Vietnam. This is
on cross examination. Look how hostile Donna gets. Fairly, she
should have expected this question, but look how hostile she
gets here.

Speaker 22 (01:47:57):
And you said that if you are given, you will
reside in Tallahassee, you will follow for murders.

Speaker 3 (01:48:05):
But when you were.

Speaker 22 (01:48:08):
Afraid of being arrested right after Charlie Adelson's trial, isn't
it true that you hoped that you could get to
the airport before you were arrested.

Speaker 4 (01:48:20):
I wasn't afraid of being arrested.

Speaker 9 (01:48:23):
What were you trying to get to the airport in.

Speaker 7 (01:48:25):
Time for.

Speaker 3 (01:48:28):
That?

Speaker 2 (01:48:28):
My husband, my husband and I literally shocked and traumatized
at what had happened to Charlie. And he said, we
need to just get some peace, we need to catch
our breath. We're going to go away somewhere. And I

(01:48:50):
thought it was a good idea because I just I
couldn't think straight. I really couldn't think straight.

Speaker 4 (01:48:58):
I was so upset.

Speaker 9 (01:49:00):
So is he.

Speaker 8 (01:49:01):
She couldn't think straight, but she strangely organized has a
zillion notes on what to do before she left. She
couldn't think straight. She was massively planning with lists and
closed down this. It's not like they left and everything
in our people. We need to just clear our heads.
They had their friend Any Cunningham to help with their rentals,

(01:49:25):
shutting things down this, that and the other lists to
get har read this and that for Vietnam, all those
are coming into play. She's gonna have to answer for
all those things.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
And it was his ideas, sweetheart, let's go just get away,
Just get away somewhere so we could have sometimes to think.

Speaker 22 (01:49:48):
Okay, so your testimony is that you weren't trying to
go to Vietnam because you wouldn't be able to be
extradited from there.

Speaker 2 (01:49:56):
So my husband actually had said, know, we we've been
to Vietnam before with friends, were on vacation, and it
was it really was like a place of peace.

Speaker 4 (01:50:11):
And so he said, if we go.

Speaker 2 (01:50:13):
To a non extradition country, then if the law enforcement
decided that they wanted to arrest you or me, whatever
both he said, then he said, we won't be sitting
in a foreign prison waiting months to go back. We
could buy a ticket and we can go home. And
my understanding was that I could go home and I

(01:50:36):
could turn myself in if that's what they wanted.

Speaker 9 (01:50:40):
Okay, but you were hoping to make it.

Speaker 8 (01:50:43):
Wait, how is it turning yourself in is easier in
a non extradition country. Oh, so she would be the
one who turned herself in that they couldn't come and
get her, she would just volunteer to come back. I mean,
because they they on tape saying she's looking for non extradition.

(01:51:03):
They have her email searches that she's searching for non
extradition countries. And by the way, PS spoiler alert if
you didn't watch yesterday's hearing, Judge is clearing all this,
leaving the jury so the this was such an innocent
trip that her legal team tried to get it thrown
out as evidence of anything of evidence as consciousness of guilt,

(01:51:29):
But Judge is going to leave it up to the
jury to decide whether this show's Donna's guilty conscience. But
they also have her on tape. If you want me,
I can. I've played this so many times, but saying
you know, Dan said, meaning her lawyer. Now she's thrown
this to Marosel. This Marosel, her lawyer. She's kind of

(01:51:54):
thrown this saying you know you're not under you're not
going to be a there's no warrant out for your arrest,
You're okay to go, but saying that maybe you'll make
it out in time, meaning before the grand jury was
going to meet that Wednesday. She left on a Monday
and may or maybe they'll arrest you in the airport,

(01:52:17):
but it's worth a try. She knew there was a
chance they were going to rest.

Speaker 22 (01:52:20):
Her there and out of America in time before you
were arrested. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:52:26):
I wanted to get away. She wants it to get away.
That's what we wanted to do. And it wasn't.

Speaker 8 (01:52:35):
One's no one's arguing that they didn't want to get away.
Clearly they wanted to get away from something. But if
you're so torn up about Charlie, you're going to be
torn up in Vietnam just as much as you're torn
up in Florida about it.

Speaker 3 (01:52:53):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:52:54):
I mean they we spoke to our attorneys. I asked them.
They said this.

Speaker 2 (01:53:00):
They said there's no pinsing. We purposely called them to
make sure it was legal to do it, and they said,
there's no the words, there's no pensing charges, and there's
no warrants. So you want to go, go And so
I thought, you asked your attorneys and they tell you
that I'm going.

Speaker 22 (01:53:20):
But Dan did tell you, as you say in the
jail call that knowing what they're thinking of there, I
don't know if you'll make it out in time. I
really don't, but that he said you might or you
might get to the airport and they'll stop you. It
could happen, that's what he said, right. So you went

(01:53:43):
to the airport knowing that it could happen. They could
stop you at the airport. You couldn't, That's what Zann said, right.
And when you were looking at places to go those
couple of days after Charlie Edelson's trial, you were specifically
looking though, for countries that did.

Speaker 9 (01:54:01):
Not have extradition with the US.

Speaker 4 (01:54:03):
For the reason I just told you.

Speaker 22 (01:54:05):
Right, And the reason that you're saying that you were
looking for countries with no extradition was so that you
could get back faster in order to be arrested in
the US.

Speaker 2 (01:54:17):
No, that's not what I said. It's because I don't know.
Maybe we wanted too much TV, were too many movies.
But I've seen movies where people are stuck in like
third world prisons and waiting and waiting and waiting, and
my feeling was, this is not what we want to happen.

(01:54:38):
If the state says they want us to come back,
we'll buy a ticket.

Speaker 4 (01:54:43):
We'll come back on our own terms. We don't have
to be sitting in a jail somewhere. We'll come back
home and turn ourselves in.

Speaker 9 (01:54:50):
Couldn't you have done that no matter what country you
went to.

Speaker 4 (01:54:53):
No, No, but I.

Speaker 8 (01:54:56):
Mean, wouldn't you be better saying that they didn't arrest
they couldn't know them. I mean, she hears there's a
warrant out for arrest in London, England. She can't get
on a plane and come back.

Speaker 2 (01:55:19):
No.

Speaker 22 (01:55:20):
No, you couldn't have found out that you had warn't
for your arrest and come back if there was an extradition.

Speaker 4 (01:55:24):
Well not if they not.

Speaker 2 (01:55:26):
If they would, I don't I mean, I'm not a
I'm not in law enforcement. But it appears that they
would notify law enforcements in that country and then and
then they could hold you into jail for god knows
how long. And I don't want that to happen. So
he said, well, that's why we'll do it this way, honey,
that way if if they do notify us, so we

(01:55:46):
got a phone call from from our attorney or from
law enforcement, then we'll buy a ticket.

Speaker 3 (01:55:52):
We'll go home, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:55:54):
And so it would have been on our terms. That
was the point, that was the reason that he that
he thought that was a good idea.

Speaker 9 (01:56:00):
And you're continue, miss dug and we are over time.

Speaker 3 (01:56:04):
If you please can get to your most pertinent questions.

Speaker 22 (01:56:06):
Yes, sir, I guess your Testimoni testimony ultimately, though, is
that you were not trying to go to a country
with no extradition because you were trying to avoid being.

Speaker 4 (01:56:20):
Held accountable for this charge. That's your testimony being held.
I didn't do this being held accountable for this. This
is not what happened.

Speaker 8 (01:56:30):
Being so any statement analysis would say that it's vague.
This she's not going to say what it is. I
would have met. I didn't murder Danny. I didn't take
part in any murder. I'm not a murderer. I didn't
murder Dan Morcal. But this could be anything.

Speaker 22 (01:56:54):
Arrested for this case being arrested, right, That was not
what you were trying to avoid by trying to go.

Speaker 3 (01:56:59):
To a non extradition country.

Speaker 2 (01:57:01):
We were trying to get our heads on trade and
just breathe that's all.

Speaker 8 (01:57:08):
Well, I mean she would better her off, saying I
didn't want to. I don't know would it be better?
I mean, know what you think would it be better off?
Saying I didn't want to be charged with a crime
I didn't commit. I saw what happened to Charlie, an
innocent man. I thought that would have been her testimony.
I thought that would be your testimony. They could convict Charlie,

(01:57:33):
they could convict me. It could have happened, and I
just wouted out. But then then it shows that she's
fuelling the long.

Speaker 21 (01:57:42):
Arms of the long And now you're repeating it.

Speaker 9 (01:57:44):
Okay, have you been a good brother to Winny?

Speaker 21 (01:57:49):
I always try to be a good brother.

Speaker 9 (01:57:51):
It sounds like maybe you're not agreeing that this was
a really nasty divorce, or are you agreeing it was
a nasty divorce.

Speaker 21 (01:57:56):
I mean, I don't think any divorces can be pleasant.
But I think they definitely had their fights. I mean
they were fighting over bicycles and all kinds of crap.

Speaker 9 (01:58:04):
But in addition to that, darn Markel accused your sister
of fraud.

Speaker 21 (01:58:07):
Right, he made an accusation.

Speaker 9 (01:58:09):
Yeah, threatened her with federal kidnapping charges.

Speaker 21 (01:58:13):
That's a new one. You just told me that ones.

Speaker 9 (01:58:14):
And the emails that are in evidence. Did you review those?

Speaker 21 (01:58:17):
I didn't review the federal kidnapping charges in this case.

Speaker 9 (01:58:20):
Was seeking contemp proceedings. You heard about that here in court?

Speaker 21 (01:58:23):
Yes, I heard about that.

Speaker 9 (01:58:24):
Yeah, even went after her lawyer personally.

Speaker 21 (01:58:27):
Right, he made serious threats against her lawyer.

Speaker 9 (01:58:30):
And her barcard could have been in jeopardy off any of.

Speaker 8 (01:58:32):
Those or some of them.

Speaker 21 (01:58:34):
I heard that the other day. She was saying that,
I guess her lawyer. He was threatening her lawyer's barcard, her.

Speaker 9 (01:58:39):
Lawyer's barcard as well as as Wendy's.

Speaker 21 (01:58:41):
He was making lots of threats and writing lots of stuff,
I guess.

Speaker 9 (01:58:44):
And he messed with your mom too. Didn't mean in
that grandma motion, you know which one I'm talking about.

Speaker 21 (01:58:48):
I don't think he was messing with my mom. I mean,
nobody took that seriously, and I don't think anybody even
knew about it.

Speaker 3 (01:58:53):
Isn't your mom?

Speaker 21 (01:58:54):
I'm sorry, I finished, I said, I don't think anyone
even knew about it. Two years later.

Speaker 9 (01:58:58):
Isn't your mom notorious for always getting worked out about everything?

Speaker 21 (01:59:01):
She gets upset? I mean, she's a concerned mom.

Speaker 9 (01:59:03):
I mean, but is she notorious for getting early worked
up about everything?

Speaker 21 (01:59:08):
To a certain extent?

Speaker 9 (01:59:09):
Aren't those your own words from call s that's some
evidence in this case.

Speaker 21 (01:59:12):
Yeah, those are my words, but you can't honestly not
to extreme. But she does worry, especially when like Latin
King game members are extorting her for money.

Speaker 9 (01:59:20):
Did your mom take a grandma motion? Seriously?

Speaker 21 (01:59:22):
I don't think she even knew about it.

Speaker 9 (01:59:24):
She didn't talk to you about it.

Speaker 21 (01:59:25):
No, I didn't find out about it till years later.

Speaker 9 (01:59:31):
Wasn't this divorce a big deal in your family?

Speaker 21 (01:59:35):
It didn't affect my life. I can tell you that,
so I don't think that's true. I think it was
a big deal in my sister's life.

Speaker 9 (01:59:42):
Why did when do you testify that she was getting
along well with Dana Markel just prior to his death.
You can we agree that's not true.

Speaker 21 (01:59:50):
I think there were ups and downs and how they
got along. But you got to asked her. She was
on the stand. I mean, I wasn't living her life.

Speaker 9 (01:59:55):
Is it part of your defense to minimize how nasty
and contentious this divorce was?

Speaker 21 (02:00:01):
My defense is to tell the truth.

Speaker 9 (02:00:09):
Did you have any input on the decision to change
the boys' names from Markel to Adelson?

Speaker 21 (02:00:13):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 9 (02:00:16):
Do you and Donna have to protect.

Speaker 8 (02:00:19):
That could be? That could be a question asked to Donna,
did you have anything to do with changing the boys
names from Markel to Adelson? I mean, they really just
wanted to wipe off Dan Markel's whole essence being memory
from off the face of the earth.

Speaker 9 (02:00:39):
Wendy.

Speaker 10 (02:00:41):
No.

Speaker 9 (02:00:42):
Does Wendy appreciate everything you and Donna do for her?

Speaker 21 (02:00:46):
You got you got to ask her. I mean, she's
my sister. I love her right try to give her
my best advice I can, but I care about her,
and I give her my advice. Whether she takes it
or not is up to her. She's a grown woman.

Speaker 8 (02:00:57):
So I'm so curious why that bar Mitzvah dress picture
is going to be used on Donna's defense. I mean,
are they gonna paint her as wanting to end it all?
Sounds like it, doesn't it. I guess they're gonna have
to say she was in such a state she wanted
to end it all. Here's the picture of the bar

(02:01:18):
Mitzvah dress, and she says, bury me in the dress?

Speaker 22 (02:01:24):
Right?

Speaker 8 (02:01:28):
Is it ben ben or Benjamin's about Mitzvah dress?

Speaker 9 (02:01:34):
Ask it another way? Do you feel well or isn't
it true that you don't feel that Wendy appreciates everything
you and.

Speaker 21 (02:01:42):
Donna do for her, And my sister had no idea
what I've been through in the last got it how
many years? And what I wake up worry? Am I
gonna get killed? Am I gonna get it?

Speaker 8 (02:01:51):
Was Lincoln's barmits for dress? Wasn't it? Is it Lincoln
or was it Ben? I don't, I can't remember and.

Speaker 21 (02:01:59):
Rest and she knows none of it. She's just going
around her life. And I hadn't somewhat of an innate
anger towards her, you know, probably unjust because she didn't
know what happened. But yeah, that was upset.

Speaker 9 (02:02:11):
And weren't you saying on the wire that you that
she doesn't appreciate what you and Donna have done for her.

Speaker 21 (02:02:16):
I don't know if I said just she doesn't appreciate
what I've done for her because I never did anything
for her.

Speaker 9 (02:02:20):
Okay, So that was my next question, is what have
you done for her?

Speaker 21 (02:02:23):
Nothing other than give her advice and care about her
big brother that loves her.

Speaker 9 (02:02:28):
Would you say Wendy's a little bit.

Speaker 21 (02:02:29):
Spoiled in some in some regards. I mean, she gets
a lot of help, for sure.

Speaker 9 (02:02:36):
Is she a little less savvy about how the world
works than you are.

Speaker 21 (02:02:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (02:02:42):
You gotta ask her, could you trust Wendy with a
secret that could ruin your life.

Speaker 21 (02:02:46):
It's it's not a secret something that would get me killed,
So I didn't want to tell her.

Speaker 9 (02:02:51):
Can we agree that she obviously knew something about this.

Speaker 21 (02:02:53):
Crime she found out when she came to court. I
never told her anything.

Speaker 9 (02:02:57):
I'm talking about the murder Anne Mark Andall. She knew something, right,
I mean, she's not a coincident she went to the
crime scene?

Speaker 19 (02:03:02):
Is it?

Speaker 21 (02:03:03):
You're talking about the route that she took that day.

Speaker 9 (02:03:05):
I'm talking about her pulling up to the crime scene tape.

Speaker 21 (02:03:08):
She never went to the crime scene. She was going
to buy a bottled liquor that coincidentally the person sent
her a sopped the bar party for buy a bottle
of bullet bourbon that she was going to pick up.
She wasn't driving to a crime scene, and I think
she made that clear too. Nobody knew murder was taking place.

Speaker 9 (02:03:22):
She pulled up to the crime scene tape, Doctor Andilson.

Speaker 21 (02:03:25):
She didn't pull up to the crime scene tape. She
was driving down the street and then making youth are
and was blocked off. But she wasn't.

Speaker 9 (02:03:31):
She couldn't help herself.

Speaker 21 (02:03:32):
Somebody knew and murder was going to take place.

Speaker 9 (02:03:34):
She exposed you all to some degree by those actions,
didn't she?

Speaker 21 (02:03:38):
No, not at all.

Speaker 9 (02:03:39):
Then she threw you under the bus in her interview,
didn't she?

Speaker 21 (02:03:42):
Then? Nobody knew a murder was going to take place.

Speaker 9 (02:03:44):
She knew her husband had just been shot, and they
were asking her who would want him dead? And she
said your name? Are you mad about that?

Speaker 21 (02:03:50):
No, she said a lot of people's names.

Speaker 9 (02:03:52):
Well, she said yours in the first twenty five pages
of a five hour interview. Isn't that true?

Speaker 21 (02:03:56):
I wasn't there for the interview.

Speaker 9 (02:03:57):
But you've reviewed it in preparation for your trial, haven't
you you?

Speaker 21 (02:04:00):
Actually, I don't know if I've seen her area.

Speaker 9 (02:04:05):
There was a lot of questions of you about you know,
didn't you do this murder with Wendy? He does in
the state think you did this murder with Wendy?

Speaker 4 (02:04:11):
Have you?

Speaker 9 (02:04:11):
Are you familiar with your charges.

Speaker 7 (02:04:13):
In this case?

Speaker 21 (02:04:15):
Yes, I'm very familiar with my charges.

Speaker 9 (02:04:17):
And who are you alleged to have done this murder with?

Speaker 21 (02:04:20):
I'm Milisia to have done this murder with my sister,
my mom, and my dad.

Speaker 24 (02:04:25):
Regret the recollection to review a copy of the indictment.

Speaker 21 (02:04:28):
In this case, I'm a still readerffective reader. This you
want right?

Speaker 9 (02:04:36):
This is the official charging document in your case, doctor Adelson?
What does it say in reference to you? Who you
are alleged to have committed the murder with?

Speaker 21 (02:04:48):
This is? What's the saying?

Speaker 3 (02:04:49):
Is this? Two?

Speaker 21 (02:04:53):
They think I did a murder.

Speaker 9 (02:04:54):
With Katie Katherine, I ban anybody else, give me a.

Speaker 21 (02:04:59):
Bed, I'll read.

Speaker 2 (02:05:06):
Now.

Speaker 21 (02:05:07):
They got Luise Raverian here. They got afraid of Parcilla.

Speaker 9 (02:05:10):
As being alleged to have committed the murder.

Speaker 21 (02:05:14):
With you are read too quick?

Speaker 9 (02:05:17):
Kay, should just be at the very top of each charge,
honor about July eighteenth, twenty fourteen, did unlawfully?

Speaker 21 (02:05:37):
Okay? Yeah, Katie?

Speaker 9 (02:05:50):
Are you mad that Wendy hasn't been charged and you have?

Speaker 21 (02:05:54):
No? I'm mad that I got charged with crime that
I didn't commit.

Speaker 9 (02:05:57):
Do you have any innate anger with Wendy over that back?

Speaker 21 (02:06:00):
No? Not at all.

Speaker 9 (02:06:01):
Are you pissed that she told all that stuff to
Jeff Lacasse?

Speaker 21 (02:06:04):
I don't think she said that to Jeff, But I
wasn't there.

Speaker 9 (02:06:06):
How did lacass know about the celebration dinner.

Speaker 21 (02:06:09):
That we went out to dinner? She got sick, so
she may have told someone that she threw up.

Speaker 9 (02:06:12):
And then what he just added the part about you
referring to it as a celebration.

Speaker 21 (02:06:16):
I never referred to it as a celebration dinner. When
I picked my sister up, I said, where do you
want to go to eat? She said she wanted pizza sushi.
I said, I know a great sushi place. We went there.
We didn't have reservations. We ended up sitting at the
bar for an hour waiting for our table, and she
had two drinks and got sick.

Speaker 9 (02:06:31):
She vomited on the dinner table. We're at the dinner table.

Speaker 21 (02:06:34):
Yeah, she got her to the bathroom, but yeah, she
doesn't drink alcohol, so those two drinks and I think
on an empty stomach, I think she got really sick.
But there was no celebration dinner. It was the first
time that she actually really left the house since she
got back from Tallhassie. She was devastated.

Speaker 9 (02:06:46):
Did you say something to her about the murder of
Dan Markel right before she vomited? Absolutely not, Do you
remember what you said right before she vomited.

Speaker 21 (02:06:54):
Probably I think she said I don't feel well and
I say, oh no, and then she threw up. Before that,
I think I said oh no, and then she threw
up before.

Speaker 9 (02:07:02):
She announced that she was going to be ill. Right,
do you remember what the conversation was?

Speaker 21 (02:07:08):
Just a how was the food? I mean, we're probably
about halfway through dinner if you look at the time
check when we weren't there long?

Speaker 9 (02:07:15):
Why did you brag to Jeffrey Lacrosse about your connection
to the Cuban criminal element? Never said that to jeff
a cost so he's making that up if.

Speaker 21 (02:07:23):
He said it. I never I never said it.

Speaker 9 (02:07:25):
You were in here when he said it, weren't you.

Speaker 21 (02:07:27):
I heard him say yeah, But I never said that to.

Speaker 9 (02:07:30):
Him on one of these calls. And it's in the
context of talking about Dave and Wendy's relationship with Dave.
You tell your mom that you've already gone above and
beyond for Wendy, was that a reference to having her

(02:07:52):
ex murdered?

Speaker 21 (02:07:53):
No, it's be getting tired of this Dave stuff. I mean,
Dame's a great guy. I mean, everyone who meets some
bakes him. He's not only super successful, but he's very
low like T shirts and jeans kind of guy. And
he loved my sister's kids. I mean, if you listen
to the wire, the point I was making is not
how successful it is. The point I was making is
that my nephew's farted on him and he thought it
was funny and didn't bother him. And he also has
three young kids the same ages as my sister's. Two

(02:08:14):
young kids. Actually met in line when my sister was
registering the kids for school, and it was very They've
been friends for years, so I thought it was a
great opportunity for my sister to have a great guy
in her life. And I was getting sick and tired
of Dave calls, and the wires started in April. My
sister's birthdays in April, Dave's birthdays in April. So you
got a ton of Dave chatter on this case. But

(02:08:34):
believe me, I'd be crazy if I was talking about
Dave like this all year long.

Speaker 9 (02:08:38):
So that's a no. You did not reference having her
ex murdered. Absolutely not when you said you've already gone
above him behind.

Speaker 21 (02:08:44):
No, that was me getting sick of dealing with the
dag stuff. It was great to the guy as he is.

Speaker 8 (02:08:48):
I was still getting sick of it when and then
Donna's going to answer for why why she wrote to
her in the text message. You know everyone's protected you.
Now you're not guilty. Your lawyers took good care of you.

(02:09:08):
That that text message. That'll be interesting. And then I'm
sure they're gonna ask Wendy what did your mother mean
when she wrote this? I mean, if Wendy answers, you
got to ask her, well, what did you take it
to mean? Your lawyers protected you? Now you're not guilty.
Now you're not guilty. I mean, so when you use

(02:09:30):
the word now, it means at one time you were guilty,
right now you're not guilty. I mean, Donna's telling us
all that right there that Wendy was a part of it,
she used Charlie's words, A part of it. I mean,

(02:09:51):
so it's it's so minimizing, but a part of the
plot and conspiracy that murdered Dan Markel. She was a
part of it. Now you're not guilty. Well, what were
you before your lawyers took good care of you? Why

(02:10:13):
would your lawyers need to take good care of her?
She's not guilty. They wouldn't have to do anything. Oh
damn it.

Speaker 9 (02:10:21):
The one million dollar offer was conceived. Do you recall
whose idea that was?

Speaker 21 (02:10:27):
My parents?

Speaker 9 (02:10:30):
Why was the relocation worth a million bucks?

Speaker 21 (02:10:34):
Well it was. It was actually good. I was going
to pay a third, so I looked at it as
that way. Why was it worth it, that's question because
it was going to help my sister out and it
was going to be a I was going to give
her a good opportunity for a good job down here,
and she was going to be around family, and family
was important. So that's why.

Speaker 9 (02:10:51):
Isn't it true that financially you came out ahead on
this deal as opposed to if you had coughed up
the third of a million dollar offer?

Speaker 21 (02:10:58):
How in the world did I come up ahead?

Speaker 9 (02:11:00):
This is a great financially. You paid one hundred thirty
eight thousand, and you paid two thousand a month plus
the one thousand dollars payroll amount. You're still over one
hundred thousand dollars ahead financially.

Speaker 8 (02:11:11):
Oh, I had them at three. I thought I'm wrong.
I had him at three thousand dollars a month. He
was on a two thousand dollars a month paid plan.
That's less than most New Yorker's rent monthly, so he's
doing pretty well. That's nothing. And for periodontis two thousand

(02:11:32):
dollars a month? What a reasonable plate paid plan? Oh,
my love, so ridiculous.

Speaker 9 (02:11:40):
And if you had coughed up the three thirty three.

Speaker 21 (02:11:42):
K, no, I would have been better off paying. And
first of all, I never paid for murders. This is
a crazy question, but paying three thousand dollars a month
for life is not a Is that anything anybody wants
to do?

Speaker 9 (02:11:51):
I didn't synything about paying for a murder. I said,
you paid one hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars, which
you did.

Speaker 21 (02:11:56):
I got extorted for three hundred and thirty thousand.

Speaker 9 (02:11:59):
And then you paid. But you didn't paint the three
hundred and thirty thousand.

Speaker 21 (02:12:02):
Right, I didn't have it. I pointed out my safe
and that was what was in my safe that night.

Speaker 13 (02:12:07):
All right?

Speaker 9 (02:12:09):
Can we agree that Wendy was stressed out about issues
surrounding her divorce.

Speaker 21 (02:12:13):
I think the divorce all stressed in her life.

Speaker 9 (02:12:15):
Yes, And you were hearing about it from your mother,
weren't you.

Speaker 21 (02:12:18):
Yeah, out here, Wendy's.

Speaker 9 (02:12:20):
Totally stressed out yesterday was a rough one. That sort
of thing.

Speaker 21 (02:12:24):
Yes, I said it before, is that my sister would
tell my mamas story. I'd be sitting in the car driving,
my mom would be talking to me and telling me
the latest story of the day. And that's how the information,
that's how I found out a lot.

Speaker 9 (02:12:34):
And then on to nineteen or fourteen, Donna text you
again to tread lightly with Wendy and refers to Dan
Markel as an asshole and a fucker.

Speaker 21 (02:12:41):
Right, you made me laugh.

Speaker 9 (02:12:44):
So therefore, is that what happened that text?

Speaker 21 (02:12:48):
Did my mom use a foul word to describe him?

Speaker 9 (02:12:51):
Yes, her asshole and fucker to be specific.

Speaker 21 (02:12:55):
She used the course word. Correct.

Speaker 8 (02:12:57):
Is that pretty well? Almost like they're all dividing the
amount that they were going to bribe Dan Markel million
dollars and they're all breaking up probably what they paid
for this murder for higher plot between three people, right,

(02:13:19):
so there's three of them, Harvey, Harvey and Donna and
Charlie and Wendy. I mean, if you want to include
Wendy in it, I don't know she's going to pay
them back for it. But the bribe was going to
come from right, Harvey and Donna are one person. Charlie

(02:13:41):
and Wendy. It's almost like they broke up the payment
that way, but an odd I mean, when we say
three hundred and thirty three thousand dollars, we say odd number,
but not an odd number. If they say, well, we
can't bribe Dan Markel with a mill and we'll put
it towards the murder pot.

Speaker 9 (02:14:03):
Strong language for your mom, or is that how she speaks?

Speaker 21 (02:14:07):
I mean it is pretty strong language, but I think
in a not been called a lot worse. But I
mean something my mom used the coursewords she's the course
words you just use.

Speaker 9 (02:14:20):
Was Wendy less stressed? Oh? Yeah? Was Wendy less stressed
out once all this litigation was over?

Speaker 21 (02:14:28):
No, she was. She was a million times more stressed out.

Speaker 9 (02:14:32):
Was she better off financially?

Speaker 21 (02:14:35):
There may have been some, but not much. I don't
think so.

Speaker 9 (02:14:39):
Was she able to stop paying her eight hundred dollars
an hour divorce layers?

Speaker 21 (02:14:44):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (02:14:46):
Did she get two point seven million dollars in benefits
for her children plus forty eight hundred dollars a month
for the boys benefit.

Speaker 21 (02:14:53):
No, As far as I know that that money was
in trust for and it's controlled by Dan Morkel sister.
So none of that money. You can keep sayying it
like the money went to her. The money's in trust
for the kids, and that might never went to her.

Speaker 9 (02:15:04):
Some of it went to her, and some of it
was in trust for the kids.

Speaker 2 (02:15:07):
Right.

Speaker 21 (02:15:08):
I don't know the breakdown, but I know that the
ninety something percent of what you're talking about is in trust,
and it's in trust for the children. It's not for
her benefit.

Speaker 8 (02:15:15):
So he talks about this specifically with his mother on
the jail house causing I said, I didn't know Wendy's finances,
but he seemed to know them pretty well. And Donad's like, yes,
you ansaid that. Well you answered that well, Charlie, right.

Speaker 9 (02:15:29):
It's for the benefit of the boys, but it has
to come through her because their children. Well, it has
its dispersements, right.

Speaker 21 (02:15:36):
It has to go through the executor of the trust.
My sister's not the executor of the trust.

Speaker 9 (02:15:41):
Yes, sir, I'm not saying she is. When the executor
of the trust disperses money for the benefit of the boys,
it gets dispersed to Wendy.

Speaker 10 (02:15:48):
Right.

Speaker 21 (02:15:48):
See, you know more than I know.

Speaker 9 (02:15:55):
Did you have trouble sleeping after the murder.

Speaker 21 (02:15:59):
After eresick store for sure.

Speaker 9 (02:16:01):
Did Katie text you on twelve nineteen or fifteen? Sorry,
we have problems sleeping and ship We do have a
lot of weight on our shoulders.

Speaker 21 (02:16:10):
Did she text me that?

Speaker 9 (02:16:11):
Did she text you?

Speaker 21 (02:16:13):
She may have? It sounds about right.

Speaker 9 (02:16:15):
Do you want to look at the text?

Speaker 8 (02:16:17):
Why would the weight be on Katie's shoulders. She's benefiting
from it, so why would there be any weight on
Katie's shoulders? That doesn't make sense. Yeah, we'll finish this up, like, uh,
thanks for this is going long. Thanks for hanging in
listening with me.

Speaker 11 (02:16:38):
Okay, ok, I've heard sam.

Speaker 7 (02:16:55):
Which one.

Speaker 9 (02:16:58):
You can look around context if you want, But I'm
looking at page two of this exhibit and it's got
all the box around it.

Speaker 7 (02:17:07):
Thanks Tom.

Speaker 9 (02:17:25):
If that refreshes your recollection, The question is did she
send it?

Speaker 3 (02:17:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (02:17:32):
H you want to go over a little bit some
of the payments or gifts that you gave to Katherine mcdanama.
We've heard a lot about her being put on the
payroll at the Adelson Institute.

Speaker 8 (02:17:47):
And another thing Donna's gotta answer for. That's going to
be devastating to watch her get away with it. Watch
her get a not guilty verdict. I mean, that's definitely
a trend now with juries been so indoctrinated by this
years and years and years of wrongfully convicted nonsense media

(02:18:12):
through crime innocence fraud crap that there. I told you
when I was a jury right before we finalized our
verdict and was eleven guilty to one. We finally turned
that one person in the child preditation case. The guy said,

(02:18:32):
this young person, young guy said he was a juror,
said to me, said to the whole group, really, well,
there's lots of wrongful convictions, but this isn't one. It's like,
like what and I know there are wrongful convictions, but
you're acting like there's so many of them. Was don't
you think every jury is sure that they're not wrongfully

(02:18:54):
convicting someone before they convict they think? I think every
jury is sure that they've met their burden for the
It's crazy. So I mean, watch her walk away with it.
But she's got to answer Donna to why she was
writing checks for someone who doesn't work at the institute.

(02:19:16):
In just a little flashback to memory lane with the
Adolson Institute, here we go the whole Adolson institute. There,
they are, the whole whole crew. I mean, why she's

(02:19:38):
writing checks, that's I mean, I used to think that Charlie,
there's more because of all the wire taps. But Donna
Edelson has made more evidence by fleeing, by doing whatever
she was doing in Leone County. I mean half of
her the her defense witness list is all about out

(02:20:00):
this second investigation. I mean, it's going to be a
really good trial. We don't know, we don't know any
of the details really of this second wire tap on
the Adoleson family, on Harvey Aedelson's phone. And will her
lawyers face any pushback? They never do. We're letting their

(02:20:25):
client use their bone to talk to Harvey to avoid
the surveillance in the jail and talk about acting in
a non ethical manner.

Speaker 9 (02:20:40):
And she made this demand to you when you met
her to give her the first extortion payment on the
payment plan. Is that correct?

Speaker 21 (02:20:48):
She didn't make a demand when I gave her the
three thousand dollars for her friend. She asked me if
I could do her a favor and put her on
payroll for a thousand of mom so she can get
insurance for her kids, she was going to catch the
check and the money was still built to her friends.
If that money wasn't going to her, she was getting insurance.

Speaker 9 (02:21:04):
And did you believe her that she would get the
money from the paychecks to the friend.

Speaker 21 (02:21:10):
I believe what she was saying something that Isn't.

Speaker 9 (02:21:12):
It true that Kapain back Danawa actually asked you to
place her on the payroll back in June, prior to
this extortion effort.

Speaker 21 (02:21:20):
I don't know if put on peril. She asked me
if I could put her something when it's day or
put her something on the office so she could get insurance.
But I never I never did.

Speaker 13 (02:21:27):
That was in June.

Speaker 21 (02:21:29):
Yeah, I remember she'd asked me about it before, but
I never I never did anything.

Speaker 9 (02:21:42):
In June June twenty fourth of twenty fourteen, she says, baby,
I'm going to need help on the employment info I
have to send to DCF for my kids insurance. Also,
if I have to end up moving later on, I
need to show I'm working for you, or else I
won't be able to get an apartment, to which you respond,
no problem, remember that.

Speaker 21 (02:22:01):
Yeah, but I wasn't thinking she was asking about payroll.
I think she was asking just to say that she
worked there. It was the sign of a letter saying that
she was employed, So that doesn't say anything about writing checkster.

Speaker 9 (02:22:10):
And that request was made in between the two trips
that the killers made.

Speaker 21 (02:22:14):
That request, well, she asked me if I could do
that for her while I was dating her, and I
never even did it.

Speaker 9 (02:22:18):
And did she ask if you could do that in
between the two trips that the killer's made.

Speaker 21 (02:22:22):
I didn't know when they went up, but I found
out later that they went up in June.

Speaker 9 (02:22:28):
All right, so that email would have been sent. I'm sorry,
it's a text. That text would have been sent prior
to what you were calling. Is the first layer of
the extortion.

Speaker 21 (02:22:36):
That text was sent to me while I was dating.
I never did.

Speaker 9 (02:22:38):
Prior to the first layer of extortion.

Speaker 21 (02:22:41):
The text was sent in June.

Speaker 9 (02:22:43):
Prior to the first layer of extortion.

Speaker 21 (02:22:45):
Before I was extorted. Yeah, before I broke up with it.

Speaker 9 (02:22:49):
And you say several times on the wire that she
was cleaning at the office. Was she really cleaning?

Speaker 21 (02:22:54):
No, she never worked for us.

Speaker 9 (02:22:57):
She was doing some type of cleanup for you, wasn't
she No, what's the purpose?

Speaker 8 (02:23:08):
I love how Charlie doesn't get the double chaundre there.
She was doing some kind of clean up for you.
She was helping clean up the problem of your your
sister's ex husband, Dan Markell. What a nightmare Ruth Markel
and city having and uh, your husband have to her

(02:23:32):
ex husband have to sit through this murder trial and
murder trial. Just these things never end, not like they're
going to get any I hate when they say the
victim's family is going to get closure. There is no closure.
The life sentence of grief I've been given thanks to
the Adlesoen family.

Speaker 9 (02:23:55):
Best of keeping Katie happy was she gonna sick the
Latin kings on you if you made her unhappy.

Speaker 21 (02:24:03):
She was protecting me. I didn't know what would happen,
and she was keeping my mind like when that the
extortion never went up, and I just assumed. I thought
that she wasn't part of it, and she was protecting me.
And usually extortion goes up, it always always gets ratated
up for whatever.

Speaker 9 (02:24:17):
What's the fear of not keeping her happy? That is
what I'm trying to understand.

Speaker 21 (02:24:22):
Well, I could get killed or the people who are
extorting me could come rob me, and I didn't get killed.
I didn't get robbed, the extortion never went up. I
thought she was really protecting me.

Speaker 9 (02:24:32):
If that's the case, why not just I mean, you're
complying with everything that asked you to do, right.

Speaker 21 (02:24:37):
I'm doing everything that was asked to do, and that's yeah.

Speaker 9 (02:24:40):
So why reach out and say, hey, can I get
you a trip to Key West to go with that
extortion money?

Speaker 21 (02:24:46):
I never said can I get you a trip to
Key West?

Speaker 9 (02:24:48):
You didn't say you were trying to get them the
owner's cottage. Maybe it's not in Key Wes trying to
get them the owner's cottage because it's the nicest three
hundred and eighty dollars a night the postcard. Do you
recall all these conversations?

Speaker 21 (02:25:02):
Oh, yeah, for sure. And that was she'd actually asked
me weeks before the bump because I had this connection
to a place called the Moorings that I could get
like a really great play. It's a really affordable price
for how nice the places. And I said I was
gonna make some calls and help her out and get it.
And then I ended up giving her three hundred dollars
for the uh when she picked up that bag of
my house, I put three hundred dollars in it, and
I got her a hotel.

Speaker 9 (02:25:22):
Is that a yes? You remember that conversation? Yeah, and
she didn't want the trip. In the text messages, she's
saying like, no thanks, and you're kind of forcing it
down her throat. Do you really agree with that?

Speaker 21 (02:25:32):
Yeah, because actually it's tell you. At that time in
the wire, I was trying to see if Katie and
him worked together or they weren't together. So that's why
I kept asking, how you know, how are things are
you guys? Okay? You know, because if they were fighting,
it was making me think more and more that the
reason she was avoiding me was because she found out
that he was the one who was doing the second
extortion again, so I was trying to figure out if
it was him and if she was lying to me and.

Speaker 9 (02:25:54):
She in this case she says, I don't want to
do anything, and you say, you know what up that
you were going there? You're going to have a good
time for sure.

Speaker 21 (02:26:01):
I was trying to do nice things for her.

Speaker 9 (02:26:02):
Then did you pay for a trip or offer? I
guess offer to pay for a trip to Santo Domingo
for Katherin night Bannel and superraded Garcia to visit his parents.

Speaker 21 (02:26:10):
I didn't know who she was going with, but I
paid for you talking about airline tickets, yes, yeah, she
called me up. She had an emergency, something happened. She
booked tickets for the wrong date. I had no idea
who in the family she was going with, and she
had no money. And I remember I was in Chicago.
I was at a friend's wedding, and I took out
my credit card and I gave her the credit card
number and let her book tickets. I thought she was
going with their kids.

Speaker 9 (02:26:31):
So is that a yes? You paid? Remember that one quicker? Sorry,
answer the question?

Speaker 3 (02:26:36):
What's the objection?

Speaker 9 (02:26:37):
Argumentative overrull? Did you offer to buy Katherine Avana and

(02:27:08):
her mom a cruise?

Speaker 21 (02:27:11):
Yes? Katie had mentioned to me that she always wanted
to be able to take her mom on a cruise,
so I did. I offered, but she never took me.

Speaker 9 (02:27:17):
Did you call in prescriptions for Katherine.

Speaker 21 (02:27:19):
Mcvanlaw she was a patient of breakfast in my office.

Speaker 9 (02:27:21):
Did you pay for a meal service for Katherine mcman.

Speaker 21 (02:27:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (02:27:54):
Did you pay for car repairs for her?

Speaker 21 (02:27:57):
Yeah? All this stuff is making me think she was broke,
So yes, you're right.

Speaker 9 (02:28:00):
Did you offer that she could use your range Rover
anytime I said she could borrow the car. Did she
talk about getting a boat and you offered to help
her get a boat.

Speaker 21 (02:28:08):
I never offered to help her get a boat. I
offer to help her look for a boat.

Speaker 9 (02:28:12):
Did you pay for the breast augmentation. No, no part
of the breast. So when she's saying at the same time,
she's the day of the breast augmentation, can I just
put it on the credit card? Is she referring can
I just put on your credit card? She referring to
something else on other expense.

Speaker 21 (02:28:25):
I had no idea what she's referring to. But I
did not pay for her bou job.

Speaker 9 (02:28:28):
What about this birthday gift for Secredo Garcia? What was
the bonzie tree in the bag? What was that all about?

Speaker 21 (02:28:36):
She had asked me, And it's on a wire. It's
actually it's on four to twenty where she says, can
you get me some bud from bud, my next door
neighbor's bud. And she asked me if I could get
some marijuana from my next door neighbor for her. So
that's what when I said, I have a Bonzai tree
for you, as she asked me, and I got her
a little bit of marijuana for my next door neighbor before,
and you.

Speaker 25 (02:28:55):
Said, I, I don't know what a married man kids
would want for his birthday, but you did your best.

Speaker 21 (02:29:07):
I did my best. I was being completely surpited. I
was being completely sarcastic. I never would get sick. Fradr
garcia a present in my life.

Speaker 9 (02:29:13):
And you thought you hit it out of the park
with the weed and the gift card.

Speaker 21 (02:29:16):
Did you say that, give me a little more context.

Speaker 9 (02:29:20):
The context is, you don't know what a married man
with kids would want for his birthday, but you did
your best, and you think you hit it out of
the park.

Speaker 10 (02:29:26):
No.

Speaker 21 (02:29:26):
I was being completely sarcastic because she'd asked me for
that marijuana two weeks earlier, and I gave it to her,
and then I was joking around when I gave it
to her. I didn't want to I didn't want him
to think that I was hooking up with her, So
I started to joke around about it, and then I
was like, you know, maybe you can just tell him
it was for me, because I didn't want him to
think that I'm hooking up with Katie, and that's why
I gave it to her.

Speaker 9 (02:29:45):
Can we agree in general that it's important to maintain
positive feelings between co conspirators. If you're a co conspirator
with someone at a crime, you want to keep positive
relationship with that personally agree with that.

Speaker 21 (02:29:57):
I'm not a co conspirator with her.

Speaker 9 (02:29:58):
Okay, I'm saying in general. Can you agree in general
that co conspirat isn't a crime, want to stay friendly
with each other.

Speaker 21 (02:30:05):
I'm not a co conspirator with her.

Speaker 9 (02:30:07):
I can't agree to that. If a co conspirator develops
a motive behind another one, that could be bad, right.

Speaker 21 (02:30:13):
A co conspirator? Say it again?

Speaker 9 (02:30:15):
Say you know a husband and wife do a murder
together and then ten years later they've gone away with it,
But ten years later they fall out. That could be
a problem.

Speaker 21 (02:30:24):
Somebody might start talking, right, I was never part of
a murder.

Speaker 9 (02:30:28):
Were these gifts, these things that you provided to Katherine
mag Banama and her mother and Cecfrano Garcia payment for
the murder?

Speaker 21 (02:30:36):
Okay? I never got a sect FREDI would gift in
my life. The guy absolutely hates me. He wants to
kill me. He stalked me, He extorted me like that
was being completely sarcastic. And sometimes I make some bad jokes,
but that's even when I wrote he wanted to take
me deep seat fishing, I knew he wanted to kill me.
Like you have that text too, I didn't think we
were going deep sea fishing.

Speaker 9 (02:30:52):
On April sixth of twenty fifteen, did you receive a
text from Catherine mcbanama that reads, next time, don't be
such a dick to someone who has done something for you.

Speaker 21 (02:31:03):
Yes, she's protecting me and she's mad. She's mad at
me over something.

Speaker 9 (02:31:06):
Are these gifts what it took to secure her silence
for so long?

Speaker 21 (02:31:09):
No? Absolutely not. I was never trying to get her silence,
and I was hoping she'd tell the truth.

Speaker 9 (02:31:15):
Was your dad's birthday? In between all these.

Speaker 8 (02:31:19):
All these text messages, And this is something that people
always think their text messages won't be read. I mean,
we have a heavy weight on her shoulders. Katie's writing
him terribly. Don't be a dick to someone who's done
something for. What is she ever done for? According to him,

(02:31:41):
she's a leech who's extorting. Yeah, but I mean he's
going to say that's because she arranged the extortion. Really,
that's for him? Really? Seriously, come on, yeah, that's damning, damning.

(02:32:02):
And then there's Katie's testimony, which is excellent, better than
her pro offer for sure. I don't know what she
was thinking in that, and those she's still holding back.
I don't know for what. Maybe maybe if they ask
her again after her appeal has been denied, maybe she

(02:32:25):
would say more. Who knows. The only way she's going
to get out is by saying everything that she knows.
We're close to it, and.

Speaker 9 (02:32:37):
The two trips that the killers took.

Speaker 21 (02:32:40):
Yeah, my daxt birthday she'll have.

Speaker 9 (02:32:41):
Fifth And what birthday was that for him?

Speaker 21 (02:32:43):
It's his seventieth birthday party?

Speaker 8 (02:32:45):
All right.

Speaker 9 (02:32:45):
So there's been a lot of talk about the texting
between you and your mom about the birthday. And she
texts you on March fourth of twenty fourteen and says
she can't talk now, but you'll call when she goes
to the bathroom in Gainsville and has privacy. She tells
you to erase that text after you read it. Why
did she have you erase that text?

Speaker 21 (02:33:01):
Okay, if you look at the records, I never erased
the text.

Speaker 9 (02:33:03):
Well, why did she ask you if you know you
may not know.

Speaker 21 (02:33:06):
Maybe she's afraid my dad's looking at her phone and
find out about the president. It made no sense to me.
That's why I was like, I didn't erase anything.

Speaker 9 (02:33:12):
How was you erasing the text going to prevent your
dad from seeing it on your mom's phone.

Speaker 21 (02:33:18):
Oh if my dad looked at my mom's phone, then
he to see the text. And maybe no, he was
planning for his birthday.

Speaker 9 (02:33:23):
You weren't with dad. She was with dad.

Speaker 21 (02:33:25):
Just to clarifying, Yeah, she was with my dad.

Speaker 9 (02:33:27):
And the text that she asked you to erase, that
particular text didn't say anything about birthday or Pie.

Speaker 21 (02:33:32):
I agree on that, No, I know. It was about.

Speaker 9 (02:33:37):
Twenty minutes later she texts again and asks something about
Dad's birthday. Do you remember that?

Speaker 3 (02:33:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (02:33:42):
I know.

Speaker 21 (02:33:42):
We were trying to plan a surprise cruise. That was
the original idea, and the.

Speaker 9 (02:33:46):
Pia is mentioned elsewhere, not in this particular thread that
we're talking about now. Yeah, it was Pie the big
birthday gift.

Speaker 21 (02:33:52):
Yeah, I paid for the catering for the whole party.

Speaker 9 (02:33:55):
Then three months later, on June eighth, just after midnight,
you text her quote still working on dad's birthday president,
was that in reference.

Speaker 21 (02:34:02):
To the Iya guy, possibly or possibly what I was
also getting as a president. It's been ten years. I
don't know exactly what I got him ten years ago
on his birthday.

Speaker 9 (02:34:10):
And then at one am I'm sorry.

Speaker 21 (02:34:12):
We're done, no, or what I was thinking about getting him.

Speaker 9 (02:34:14):
And then at one am Mom text you back, I
know you'll And I think she was an israel so
that might account for the time. But she texts you quote,
I know you'll come through for me. Is that what
she said?

Speaker 21 (02:34:23):
That said the sex I did?

Speaker 9 (02:34:25):
Can we agree the timing of these texts is consistent
with beings sent the day after the killers got home
from their failed Junie murder trip.

Speaker 21 (02:34:32):
No, it's consistent with a few weeks before my dad's
birthday and trying to figure out what we're going to
get him.

Speaker 9 (02:34:39):
Why didn't you go to Dan's funeral?

Speaker 21 (02:34:42):
Yeah, in Canada.

Speaker 9 (02:34:45):
I think there was some in Tallahassee and Canada.

Speaker 21 (02:34:48):
Well, either there was a memorial service here. I didn't
go to that. No, I didn't attend. I knew what
had happened to him, and there's no way I could
have shown up. I would have been too upset mis and.

Speaker 9 (02:35:00):
Your lawyer that was here it seems like a long
time ago jury selection and said, you know, people have
different waves of grieving and that sort of thing. Were
you were you grieving for the death of Dan mark.

Speaker 21 (02:35:08):
Hel I felt horrible about what happened, and I knew
what happened. When did you? I wasn't. I wasn't I
wasn't close to him, but either way, I mean, I
felt horrible that would happen.

Speaker 9 (02:35:17):
When did you find out exactly how he was killed?
Meaning like shot twice in the head?

Speaker 21 (02:35:22):
I found out it would have been the next morning,
is how I found out he got shot in the head.

Speaker 9 (02:35:26):
Do you agree that this was a first degree murder.

Speaker 21 (02:35:30):
And premeditated the people who killed the plane on killing him? Yeah?

Speaker 9 (02:35:33):
Do you think everyone involved should be convicted?

Speaker 21 (02:35:36):
I think everyone involve should.

Speaker 9 (02:35:37):
Be convicted, even the person that hired the hit.

Speaker 21 (02:35:39):
I think anybody who played a role in it. But
I wasn't a part of it.

Speaker 9 (02:35:42):
Do you regret that Dan Mark hal suffered for fourteen
hours before he died.

Speaker 21 (02:35:46):
I feel horrible.

Speaker 9 (02:35:46):
He was supposed to die quickly instantly, right.

Speaker 8 (02:35:50):
Why would you feel horrible about a murder that you
would you know, you feel sad that he was murdered,
but you feel horrible about it. That's usually something that
you're responsible for. You feel horrible about things. You feel sad,
you feel enraged, you feel things you don't have a pardon,

(02:36:14):
but you generally feel horrible about things that you're you
to quote Charlie, you were a part of so.

Speaker 21 (02:36:23):
You asking me, I am no. He wasn't supposed to
die at all. This was horrible. What happened?

Speaker 9 (02:36:27):
Did it surprise you that the cops were able to
identify the prius?

Speaker 21 (02:36:30):
Did it surprise me? Yes, I'm not a cop. I
don't I don't know what cow cops investigate.

Speaker 9 (02:36:35):
Did it surprise you to learn that it's not a
requirement of law to put the person at the scene
of the crime to be guilty of the crime.

Speaker 21 (02:36:42):
I'm not a police detective.

Speaker 9 (02:36:44):
Was the police work in this case thorough?

Speaker 21 (02:36:47):
I'm sure the police did the best they could.

Speaker 9 (02:36:49):
Did you think that you had done everything properly such
that you could never be detected or caught for this?

Speaker 21 (02:36:55):
I wasn't part of this murder at all? Do you
have it wrong?

Speaker 9 (02:36:57):
Catherine Macrana said that you think you're untouchables. Is that true, doctor,
That's not true at all. Did your parents drop off
money to you on the night of the murder?

Speaker 21 (02:37:05):
I never saw my parents there. You could look at
our cell phones and you'll find that out that we
never saw each other.

Speaker 9 (02:37:09):
I did look at the cell phones, and what is
on there is your mom texts you quote outside your house.

Speaker 21 (02:37:14):
Now I look at the tower information.

Speaker 9 (02:37:16):
I think you've testified that that meant she was just
passing by on.

Speaker 21 (02:37:18):
The roadway, she was approaching by the area. Yeah, to
see if that was on.

Speaker 9 (02:37:21):
And do you know what your response was to her tax.

Speaker 21 (02:37:24):
Yeah, like it's twenty or thirty minutes later, I said
ten minutes.

Speaker 9 (02:37:26):
I'm ten minutes out. That is what you said.

Speaker 21 (02:37:28):
I think I said ten minutes. But yeah, not home.

Speaker 9 (02:37:31):
Doesn't that indicate you're going to meet them at your
house in ten minutes?

Speaker 21 (02:37:34):
No, I told her to let me know when you're
going to be in the area.

Speaker 9 (02:37:40):
See.

Speaker 8 (02:37:40):
Yeah, and Donna seems to be echoing this. If you
go to her evidence less, let me see if I
can find it. Yeah, so.

Speaker 9 (02:38:01):
This is okay.

Speaker 8 (02:38:04):
So travel documents bump note, but here they want to
go over all this. These are all the evidenceless and
then they say, cells ower Christmas. Note you smell left
mind undercover Wendy's email. Okay, here we go, it's kk LLL.

(02:38:40):
Transcripts of wirecrals Historical records for Florida Turnpike July eighteenth,
Historical construction records for Florida Turnpike. Do you see where
I am? And n July eighteen, two thousand and fourthcoming.
Historical accident records, Florida Turnpike eighteenth forthcoming. So they they

(02:39:00):
think they will be exonerating, saying that she was nowhere
near handing over the money that day. Let's see, let's
see what happens at try. Oh, they're promising a lot.

Speaker 9 (02:39:14):
Here was the money that Catherine mcvanama got damp?

Speaker 21 (02:39:21):
I never gave her any money that was damp. The
money I gave it came out of my safe.

Speaker 9 (02:39:24):
Was it damp?

Speaker 21 (02:39:25):
No? I took it out of my safe. I put
it on the dresser. She put it in her purse.

Speaker 9 (02:39:31):
Why did Garcia and Rivera or whoever did it? I
guess I should say, why did whoever did it need
to kill someone to extort?

Speaker 21 (02:39:38):
You gotta you gotta ask them?

Speaker 9 (02:39:42):
Why? Why couldn't they just come put a gun to
your head and say give me all the money and
your safe.

Speaker 21 (02:39:47):
Thank god they did.

Speaker 9 (02:39:50):
Thank god they didn't.

Speaker 21 (02:39:51):
Thank god they didn't. Would have gotten killed.

Speaker 9 (02:39:56):
If Garcia hated you, why would he drive to Tallahassee
twice to kill someone you hated?

Speaker 21 (02:40:02):
He was It sounds like he was part of the
extortion or Katie put him up to it, does it?

Speaker 9 (02:40:06):
Blackmail or extortion usually involved the extortions having some kind
of dirt on the victim.

Speaker 21 (02:40:10):
I know how this was done to me. I know what.
I'm just telling you what happened to me. I'm not
an expert in it.

Speaker 9 (02:40:14):
If they had come in and threatened to kill you,
would you have given them the money and you're safe.

Speaker 21 (02:40:19):
If someone came and put a gun to my head,
and yeah, I would have open up my safe and I.

Speaker 7 (02:40:21):
Would give them the line.

Speaker 9 (02:40:23):
I still don't get how killing Dan mark hal advances
the ball for them to extort money out of you.
Do you?

Speaker 3 (02:40:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 21 (02:40:29):
I have a theory. They could extort me for life.
And I don't think they knew exactly how much I
had in the safe, and you knew I had a
lot of money in the safe, But this way I
could get extorted for life, and that's what happened. And
I was paying stop paying three thousand dollars a month.

Speaker 9 (02:40:41):
But you could have gotten extorted for life just by
the threat of death by Latin king, couldn't you?

Speaker 3 (02:40:46):
Doctor?

Speaker 21 (02:40:47):
Hey, this was this was as real the threat as
you get. These guys aren't messing around.

Speaker 8 (02:40:53):
All right.

Speaker 9 (02:40:53):
You didn't report this after Garcia was arrested? Did you
did not report this after Garcia's arrest?

Speaker 21 (02:40:59):
No, not at all.

Speaker 9 (02:41:00):
Okay, you did keep paying Catherine Nagvanaa after he.

Speaker 21 (02:41:03):
Was arrest No, I never saw her again.

Speaker 9 (02:41:06):
Did not report this after mcvanalla's arrest. Correct? Correct, did
not testify in either of their trials.

Speaker 21 (02:41:13):
Correct, was never contacted too.

Speaker 9 (02:41:15):
I guess you were okay with the possibility of them
getting away with killing Dan Markel.

Speaker 21 (02:41:20):
I thought the truth was going to come out in
twenty nineteen.

Speaker 9 (02:41:23):
How if the witness who knows something doesn't come forward.

Speaker 21 (02:41:26):
Katie knows what happens and knows I was extorted and
her trial was in nineteen.

Speaker 8 (02:41:30):
Right, but he's offering to pay for her legal fees.
He's denying it. Why didn't he just say, yeah, I
wanted to help pay for legal fees. I knew an
innocent woman was getting railroaded, and I was expecting. But
now Katie mcbana was going to be the real villain
of Donna's trial. Katie the mastermind behind everything. Five foot

(02:41:55):
you know nothing, Katie is scaring you know, six foot whatever.
Charlie like, get out of my house. Let me talk
to those Latin gigs, have them come tell me in person.
I'm not paying anything. He's not paying five thousand, but
he's handing over one hundred and thirty thousand from a

(02:42:16):
safe give me pray.

Speaker 21 (02:42:17):
The truth has to come out then. Instead, I found
out that she was having this affair with him on me,
and she lied and all this money was going to her.

Speaker 9 (02:42:24):
So if her defense had been I was an innocent
conduit to an extortion, you would have backed her up
on that, if she.

Speaker 21 (02:42:31):
Would have come in and told the truth. And you, yeah,
for sure you'd heard the same story.

Speaker 9 (02:42:38):
Where is your family located now? He wants to be specific,
But is your mom and dad? Are they still in
South Florida?

Speaker 21 (02:42:44):
Yeah, they still live in South Florida.

Speaker 9 (02:42:46):
What about Wendy and the boys.

Speaker 21 (02:42:47):
My parents live about thirty thirty five minutes for my
sister and I used to live about forty five minutes
from them.

Speaker 9 (02:42:53):
And are they okay as far as you know physically today?
Did I sit here?

Speaker 21 (02:42:57):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (02:42:58):
And are you concerned that because you hold now on
the Latin Kings, that they're going to come kill your
whole family?

Speaker 21 (02:43:05):
I mean, I just told you that I knew that
was told then that Luis Rivera, the head of the
Latin Kings, killed Dan Markel. So I mean, I do
have some concern when I get.

Speaker 9 (02:43:12):
Out, right, but even after me sorry, go.

Speaker 21 (02:43:15):
Ahead, that's okay, I said, I do have some concern
Flatten Kings now that I spoke and told what I know.

Speaker 9 (02:43:20):
But what about I mean, Rivera was already in custody
at one point, as well as Darcia and my fanim
on my understanding as your continued fear was due to
other Latin Kings potentially, is that accurate?

Speaker 21 (02:43:31):
These are highly connected people. Luis Rivera, the head of
the Latin Kings, in custody means absolutely nothing if you
think he can't send somebody from the outside of your wall.

Speaker 9 (02:43:40):
All right, So my question to you is did that
happen you told you told yesterday?

Speaker 21 (02:43:46):
Was I killed yesterday?

Speaker 9 (02:43:47):
When I was in jail now and nobody in your
family has been killed so far.

Speaker 21 (02:43:50):
You're talking about in the last twenty four hours, right,
Not that I know, okay, but you're worried about that.

Speaker 8 (02:43:56):
But it did come out that he was in protective
because whether he was protective custody in prison now because
he was part of a high profile trial, I think
that's more likely than that the Latin Kings want to
kill him for making up this story about him being extorted.
That was the way it was reported. I haven't he

(02:44:19):
was talking immediately after he got convicted about Dan rashbound
looking for special accommodation for him in prison so he
could be with police officers and snitches and in a
protective unit in prison. Because he's a he's not a
typical prisoner, could have been singled out for extortion for

(02:44:43):
whatever else. So I think that has more to do
with it. And they won't even disclose what prison he's
in in North Dakota. They'll just say prison North Dakota.
I'm sure some people know.

Speaker 21 (02:44:55):
I think now that I've spoken, I do have a concern, yes, okay,
but not.

Speaker 9 (02:44:59):
Too concerned to remain silent when it's your own.

Speaker 21 (02:45:01):
Butt on the line, right, I'm here to tell the truth. Yes,
I have a concern now that I told you what happened. Absolutely.

Speaker 9 (02:45:07):
Mom tells you on that first wire, Paul, that the
bump involves the two of us, referring to yourself and
your mom.

Speaker 21 (02:45:14):
Right, Yes, that's what she's she's saying.

Speaker 9 (02:45:16):
And would you agree, prior to your explanation that that
looks pretty incriminating.

Speaker 21 (02:45:21):
I think if you don't know what happened, you can
assume the worst.

Speaker 9 (02:45:24):
Isn't it true that you had to add the bit
about confiding your extortion in your mom in order to
put that toothpaste back in the two?

Speaker 21 (02:45:31):
No, that's what happened when I got the checks.

Speaker 9 (02:45:33):
Otherwise, why would you bring your mom into this?

Speaker 21 (02:45:36):
I didn't want to. When I first told her on
the phone and asked her to write the checks, I
told her I said, just this a long story. I
brushed it off and she didn't press anything. But I
think she was out somewhere. It wasn't until when I
picked up the checks that she started pressuring me and saying,
this makes no sense. Why are you doing this. You're
not dating Katie? And that's when she found out.

Speaker 9 (02:45:51):
But Your mom is the most high strong alcohol group, right,
and she's old and she worries.

Speaker 21 (02:45:59):
Right, but I don't think he's super high strong. But
she doesn't worry about her kids. Oh you've never matter her.

Speaker 9 (02:46:05):
Well, you said she was quote notorious for making a
big deal out of everything.

Speaker 21 (02:46:09):
I mean, she overreacts, but she's a mom. I think
a lot of moms overreact.

Speaker 9 (02:46:12):
Okay, you could have told her, you know, Katie's down
on her luck and I'm just going to be putting
her on the paper. And you were making enough money.
You could tell her to just write checks, couldn't you.
Why did you have to tell her it was an
extortion from Latin ging gang members.

Speaker 21 (02:46:26):
Well, okay, at that time, I didn't know anything about
the Latin Kings. But when I when I told her
what happened, I was thinking that, you know what, it
actually would be good if someone knows what happened in
case I get killed, at least know what direction to
start looking in. So until that point, nobody even knew.

Speaker 8 (02:46:40):
Wait, no, I'm confused. So he didn't know the Latin
He's just thought some nameless, faceless people were extorting him.
So how did he know? Why was he even paying.

Speaker 21 (02:46:55):
So I just when she started questioning me and questioned me,
questioned me, I just said, you know what I'm going
to tell you that don't say a thing to dad,
don't say a thing to Wendy. You got to promise me.
I didn't want to ever talk about this again. And
that was the day that she found out. It was
when I got the checks.

Speaker 9 (02:47:07):
What she doesn't say on the wire is it's happening again.
I was approached by another extortionist today. Does she say.

Speaker 21 (02:47:14):
That she's talking very carefully?

Speaker 9 (02:47:16):
And you say carefully, but isn't carefully the same thing
as code?

Speaker 21 (02:47:20):
No, they're two totally separate things. You know the difference.

Speaker 9 (02:47:22):
You weren't really giving her money for a TV?

Speaker 21 (02:47:24):
Were you giving her money for TV?

Speaker 9 (02:47:26):
This TV is probably going to be about five I
need you to bring cash tonight.

Speaker 21 (02:47:30):
I wish she picked another object, a planet Earth, other
than TV. But TV is code for absolutely nothing. There
is no code in this case involving TV. And you
keep circling and circling and circling TV. You're wrong.

Speaker 9 (02:47:42):
Is it a coincidence that the repair of the TV
that you bought Wendy as a divorce get because it
was cheaper than hiring a hitman? Is your sister's alibi
for the murder? And then your mom brings up TV?

Speaker 21 (02:47:52):
First call on the wire, it's not an alibi for
a murder. She had a broken TV. You gotta ask
Lincoln to throw the remote at the TV.

Speaker 9 (02:47:56):
Is it a coincidence? Is the TV thing straight?

Speaker 8 (02:48:00):
Actually? He refers to it as an alibi on the
jail house calls. If they don't bring that up, they're
going to be so dumb if they don't bring it up.
Why did Wendy leave her alibi? Why did she have
to leave her alibi? I mean, do I have to

(02:48:20):
play it?

Speaker 26 (02:48:21):
I guess maybe I do to prove my point, But
I mean, what is this whod one second?

Speaker 23 (02:48:35):
Okay?

Speaker 13 (02:48:35):
Okay?

Speaker 23 (02:48:38):
Ye said this one hold on one second.

Speaker 21 (02:49:11):
Okay?

Speaker 13 (02:49:14):
Obviously keeps coming off.

Speaker 6 (02:49:16):
Don't tell us for stupid.

Speaker 13 (02:49:18):
Like it became like that with a coincidence. The considence
is what it was like, meant sitting sold like what
he just happened to show up at the house and
all drive h ah. When I first heard that it

(02:49:39):
was really he was here there? I mean, why would
she can go there? That doesn't make accept that isn't
look at me. And then I found out that she
knew was and that she wasn't there. That's praty. The
guy doesn't know what he's talking about. And then someone hopey, no,

(02:50:01):
she really was. Yes, I heard that. You were like,
they think he's involved because she was there. Yeah, And
I'm like, no, why would she be there?

Speaker 27 (02:50:16):
Just because then they said to her, you saw that,
why didn't you call the preschool to see how the
children were? Why didn't you see how Danny was? Well,
why would she think there's a problem. She thought it
was a tree down. It just closed up a whole
bunch of the streets. She really didn't think there was anything.
She thought that her children were in danger.

Speaker 13 (02:50:35):
She would have called the pre school, you know all
they said all rescue was gone, the paramedics were gone,
and the road was blocked and.

Speaker 3 (02:50:43):
Had yellow pape.

Speaker 13 (02:50:44):
Well, yeah, well that would make perfect sense. But Jesus Christ,
I mean, it's not like she showed up six hours later.
It's not like she showed up an hour before, an
hour after. She shows up Because that caplan said yes,

(02:51:06):
thinking the most obvious answer, answer is the real answer.
It's not Wait, what's the most obvious answer for Wendy
leaving her her alibi, and they've shown up that what
was only.

Speaker 8 (02:51:22):
An excuse me, Wendy leaving her alibi? Excuse me? Did
you just say Wendy leaving her alibi? Now you're saying
it wasn't an alibi. You're referring to it as an alibi.
Not what she was doing that morning was her alibi.
The TV repair was her albi, said Charlie on the

(02:51:43):
phone to his mother when he described what she was
doing that morning. Wait, the word that came to mind
was alibi. They're gonna be so dumb if they don't
question both Donna and Charlie and maybe Wendy about that coincidence.

Speaker 9 (02:52:01):
That's why I hear you say that the repairman was
there that day.

Speaker 21 (02:52:03):
Yes, sir, Yeah, that is a coincidence.

Speaker 3 (02:52:05):
For sure.

Speaker 21 (02:52:06):
There's a couple coincidences in this case. I'm sorry I
said there's a couple of coincidences in this case. I
mean she had people send her an email to go
buy a bottle of bullet bourbon for their stock the
bar party, and she was driving to a liquor store
to buy a bottle of bullet bourbon on that day
at that time, and her friend sent the email and
you have the email and evidence, like, is that a coincidence? Yeah,
coincidence has happened.

Speaker 9 (02:52:26):
And that you might not be the right Katie talk.
That doesn't seem to really fit with your theory of
the case, does it. What was your explanation for that?
Why you kept saying you might not be the right Kady?
I mean, she's definitely the right.

Speaker 21 (02:52:36):
Kde that absolutely she knew it was I was implying
it was her. I was just trying to say, I'm
not setting you up, but I need your help.

Speaker 9 (02:52:43):
On call B your mom. You call your mom back
and you say you prover a little bit, and ultimately
you say you think someone's trying to blackmail you. That's crazy.
Why does it sound like this is something that's new
and unfathomable to you at that moment.

Speaker 21 (02:52:57):
Well, because I wasn't even following what my mom was
talking about on the first call and on the second
call when she shocked me when she said that, and
I'd been extorted before per saying to bring cash, and
just everything just didn't sound right.

Speaker 9 (02:53:11):
Could we play clip four please? This is from Dulce.

Speaker 3 (02:53:14):
Sorry, from flip four from Dulce.

Speaker 9 (02:53:19):
Okay, even if they had any evidence. The first words

(02:53:56):
out of your mouth on this clip, even if they
had any evidence, yea strike. The quote is if you say,
if they had any evidence, we'd have already gone to
the airport. And I know you're already testified about this, but
but does an innocent person say if they had any evidence?

Speaker 21 (02:54:12):
Right Katie saying it's to the police, and I'm saying
that we're innocent. They're not going to have any evidence
to show we were part of something, that we were
part of it, we had any part of this, we'd
go in too the airport. Right now, it's a true.

Speaker 9 (02:54:21):
Doctor that they're not going to have any evidence because
you were careful, No, because we weren't a part of this.
You were smart, No, who weren't a part of this?
You walled yourself off.

Speaker 21 (02:54:29):
I was sure they're not going to have evidence to
show I did something I didn't do. So we're not
running to.

Speaker 9 (02:54:33):
The airport and you're untouchable.

Speaker 21 (02:54:34):
Right, No, we didn't do a murder. I wasn't part
of a murder. There's no reason to want to the airport.

Speaker 9 (02:54:39):
And the next clip, you're discussing what's going to happen.

Speaker 8 (02:54:42):
If so casual, I wasn't part of a murder. If
someone accused me of being part of murder, I'd be pissed,
so angry. It's almost like he has the attitude that
it's not such a bad thing to be accused of.

Speaker 9 (02:54:59):
If this that did the bomb goes to the police,
and you're going through all these scenarios, you know these possibilities.

Speaker 21 (02:55:06):
Wait, if he goes to the police.

Speaker 9 (02:55:07):
Yeah, the blackmailer goes to the police, They're going to
say where's the weapon. He's not going to know. He's
just going to have hearsay. Basically, if someone told me
they did it, it's not going to be enough to
get the investigation anywhere. Why are you thinking through the
possibility of the blackmailer going to the cops. If the
blackmailer doesn't have any dirt on you to take to
the cops.

Speaker 21 (02:55:26):
I wasn't thinking about the blackmailed. What I was trying
to say is I don't know anything about Sufredo. I
don't know anything about this crime. I was trying to
tell her that I'm harmless. I don't have any knowledge
of what went on. Like, the last thing I wanted
is that now that she's saying it's the police, is
someone to come and kill me and think I'm some
kind of loose hedens. So that's why I'm saying that that's.

Speaker 9 (02:55:42):
Not what you're saying. You're saying, if this is a
person that Louis Rivera ran his mouth to and they
go to the police, it's going to be worth zero
because they're not going to know anything other than hey,
my brother told me this.

Speaker 21 (02:55:56):
I don't know if I was saying with someone who
knows Luci Andros trying to make the point that I
don't know anything.

Speaker 9 (02:56:00):
And then you suggest what they would have to do
is get him to wear a wire and get the
person to confess, and that's probably what this what this
could be an effort to do.

Speaker 21 (02:56:08):
Right, Well, they're thinking that we were part of a murder,
so that's this was the same thing I said before
that this is their theory. So this is a police
tactic and it could be either a bad guy or
the police, and this is this is how they're pursuing
you exactly.

Speaker 9 (02:56:20):
So as long as you keep your mouth shut, you
can get away with murder.

Speaker 21 (02:56:22):
Right, No, not at all.

Speaker 9 (02:56:24):
Isn't that what you told Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Speaker 21 (02:56:26):
Ryan Fitzpatrick is someone who stole over half a million dollars.

Speaker 9 (02:56:28):
That's not my question, sir, did you say that to Ryan?

Speaker 13 (02:56:31):
Never?

Speaker 21 (02:56:32):
Never at all?

Speaker 9 (02:56:34):
Why do you go in.

Speaker 8 (02:56:36):
We're in Fitzpatrick still half a million dollars, but they
don't want to pay five.

Speaker 9 (02:56:44):
Into so much detail about rental car examples. Let's start
with strike back. Can you agree that the prius you
knew that the police were looking for a prius at
the time you met at this Delce Peter restaurant.

Speaker 21 (02:56:54):
I think it had been released that that's on all.

Speaker 9 (02:56:56):
Right, and you're and you heard the recording. You're you're arguing,
let's play the clip. This is gonna be a clip.
I think let's play seven and eight. Please, Okay, because
the fact, because the fact, like the day.

Speaker 6 (02:57:19):
And then I go ahead and I go in.

Speaker 8 (02:57:24):
My car.

Speaker 3 (02:57:24):
He got out and the crime.

Speaker 6 (02:57:27):
Okay, and I got out of the part had something
to do.

Speaker 22 (02:57:40):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (02:57:42):
How about to ask you can't have a car and
like this person in.

Speaker 28 (02:57:51):
That car and okay, but you can't get They were
also dropping that day that I'm printed and let the
rented at marked the barn that.

Speaker 13 (02:58:05):
I rob the com I come back, and.

Speaker 15 (02:58:08):
And have you read.

Speaker 13 (02:58:13):
What if you were sucking?

Speaker 3 (02:58:14):
Would all men?

Speaker 6 (02:58:15):
I wrote the back, Okay, at what point is I
don't have.

Speaker 9 (02:58:24):
And I don't want to come?

Speaker 13 (02:58:33):
Kay?

Speaker 9 (02:58:42):
Sounds like you're saying, even if they tracked down the prius,
even if there's DNA or fingerprints with the prius, meaning
like they can link someone to the prius, that's not
gonna be enough evidence to make any arrest.

Speaker 2 (02:58:55):
In this case.

Speaker 9 (02:58:57):
Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 13 (02:58:58):
No, not at all.

Speaker 21 (02:59:00):
What I'm what I'm doing is I'm restated.

Speaker 9 (02:59:02):
Answered my question?

Speaker 21 (02:59:03):
Can I give you an have an opportunity?

Speaker 9 (02:59:06):
My question was.

Speaker 3 (02:59:08):
We're not just wildly arguing. Mister mister Adelson, please answer questions.

Speaker 21 (02:59:13):
Okay, you can least ask you yes or no question
to answer your question, can I?

Speaker 9 (02:59:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 21 (02:59:18):
Okay? Sure. What I was saying to Katie is that
the information she had just told me in the car
about Siegfredo not being there when the crime was committed.
She told me that sig Fredo was on high on
drugs at the hotel and that Louise had rented a car,
and that he's the one who killed Dan. And I'm
restating to her that I don't have any knowledge of
what went on, and that all I know is that

(02:59:39):
sig Fredo wasn't even there when this happened. So that's
what I'm restating to her, that.

Speaker 9 (02:59:44):
Sec Fredo can't be caught even if he's connected.

Speaker 21 (02:59:47):
To the crime. I know that Sifreedo wasn't the one
who killed Dan.

Speaker 9 (02:59:50):
Okay, wouldn't it be good for you because you know
now that Sefredo is extortionist?

Speaker 2 (02:59:58):
Right?

Speaker 9 (02:59:58):
She just told you that car okay, And wouldn't it
be good for you if the police investigation into the
prius led to the arrests of the killers slash extortionists.

Speaker 21 (03:00:11):
If they arrested the people that killed Dan, Yeah, I
know the extortion would stop. As long as I kept
my mouth shut, I'd be safe, right.

Speaker 9 (03:00:19):
So why are you trying to argue to her that, like,
the car is not gonna lead anywhere, they're not gonna
be able to do anything with the car.

Speaker 21 (03:00:26):
That's That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that
I know that I killed him.

Speaker 9 (03:00:32):
Did you say on this recording? If there's a if
they're a bad guy, there's two ways of dealing with it.
Go ahead and contact the police. They'll contact him, the
Black Miller, and arrange a set up, take him down
and he'll proper ten years and now tell us everything
you know, or else you're going to serve ten years
in prison. Next thing you know, this person is singing.
He's calling out your name. My parents are gonna have

(03:00:54):
to say, gonna have to tell the story of what happened,
singing about what about the extortion?

Speaker 21 (03:01:01):
No, that's I think you're reading it wrong. I know
the audible is bad.

Speaker 9 (03:01:04):
What would yes, sir, what would be the extortion is?
And now I'm referring toone that contacted your.

Speaker 21 (03:01:10):
Mother, the Latin King extortion. Well, they're both Latin kings, right,
said the second extortion.

Speaker 9 (03:01:16):
What would they have to sing about?

Speaker 21 (03:01:20):
The second extortion would be singing and talking about the
first extortion where they learned their information from.

Speaker 9 (03:01:26):
Who cares? That doesn't have anything to do with you.

Speaker 21 (03:01:28):
When they catch the first extortion, Katie's tied to them,
and I'm tied to Katie, They're going to come talk
to us and we're going to be in danger when
we tell them what happened. So that's what we were
playing out of saying. If they catch the second they're
going to turn it on the first And that's the
same thing I said yesterday.

Speaker 9 (03:01:40):
You gave very precise instructions to Katherine vanwa on what
she was to say when she calls the phone number.

Speaker 21 (03:01:45):
Right, yeah, do that absolutely.

Speaker 9 (03:01:49):
And then you say, quote, you'd better kill him because
he's going to be a big problem and he knows
you who you are. If he can't do it, I'll
have someone else do it. Aren't you telling her that
if Garcia can't handle this problem and kill whoever's behind this,
you will have someone else do it.

Speaker 21 (03:02:06):
If you're reading it totally wrong, So yes.

Speaker 9 (03:02:07):
Or no questions. When Dan Markel's murder was taking too
long to happen, didn't you tell Catherine macmanua that if
she couldn't get it done, you would find someone else
to do it.

Speaker 21 (03:02:18):
No, never said that either.

Speaker 9 (03:02:20):
And then you say in the recording, I'm back to
Dulta now. Yeah, and when guess what, When that fing
police show up and there's a doctor, there's an oral
surgeon standing there with a dead gang member and his
effing driveway, they're not going to come down too hard
on me. So you knew you'd be believed.

Speaker 21 (03:02:36):
If he went to the police, right, I didn't. I
didn't know I'd be believed that I feared for.

Speaker 9 (03:02:43):
My life and then you say, so help me God,
if they fuck with my family, it's going to be
fucking Nazi shit, because this will be done. You know
what I'm saying. I mean, Katie, I don't care what
I spend, Okay, I swear to God. What is Nazi shit?

Speaker 21 (03:02:57):
That's an expression that Katie would use to describe someone
that's going crazy, because I think the Nazis were absolutely
crazy people. So I'm saying, I'm going to get somebody
to go crazy on the guy that's trying to extort
my mom for money. I'll pay someone to go threaten
and to scare him.

Speaker 8 (03:03:09):
I was not talking about it, yeah, Nazis. He was
just talking about scaring him, because that's what you think
of is when you think of scaring, you think of Nazis.
It's like such a slimy liar with an answer for everything.
And he thought as long as he had an answer

(03:03:29):
for everything, he would get off. But he came off
as an arrogant, guilty guy who had tailored a story
to the evidence. It wasn't a good answer, and that's
what Donna was saying, and Charlie, if you listen to

(03:03:50):
the after conviction tapes, they're like, well, we had a story,
we had a explanation. All it has to be is
a reasonable doubt. But the your story has to be reasonable.

Speaker 3 (03:04:06):
It's not.

Speaker 8 (03:04:07):
That's what they thought it was. They'd meet reasonable doubt
with these crazy explanations. Didn't work. Killing anybody, And thanks
to everyone. I know this one is running along, but
thanks for everyone who's hung out. Going on three hours now.
I really thought i'd get through this in like an
hour and forty. I have no sense of how long

(03:04:28):
it's going to take me to get through anything. And
I have more stuff too for today. I'll save that
for another When you.

Speaker 21 (03:04:33):
Say the word kill, yes, no, oh, you're when you're
putting the words in my mouth, Well, we can do that.

Speaker 9 (03:04:40):
Do you say the word kill?

Speaker 21 (03:04:41):
I'm talking about if Seccredo's coming after you, he's such
a dangerous guy, you'd have to kill him to stop him.
That's the only thing you could do. Not talking about
killing the extorter. I'm talking of that second extortion. I'm
saying that if Secreto's coming after you, the only thing
that you could do is you have to kill him
to stop it. I'm not talking about killing anybody. I'm
talking about that's the only way that you could stop
si Arado from coming after you is you would have

(03:05:01):
to kill him. And that's exactly what I said. There,
you're wrong, That's exactly what I said.

Speaker 9 (03:05:06):
All right, thank you. Nazis kill right, so that like
their primary objective.

Speaker 21 (03:05:11):
No, I think Nazis are insane, crazy people that exterminate right,
that killed Yes, but there it's crazy. That's and she
would That was an expression she would use and that's
when I used it to her. But basically, Sam, and
have someone to go crazy on this guy. I could
have used the word crazy. I thought it was interchangeable.

Speaker 9 (03:05:30):
Is it what you're doing here in this portion of
the tape feeling her out to make sure Garcia doesn't
have any bad feelings for you?

Speaker 21 (03:05:38):
When I say, yeah, I thought he could have been
behind the second extortion. I think I've said that before.

Speaker 9 (03:05:44):
Then you go into like how your relationships didn't overlaud
you never disrespected him, and you mentioned that you know
you don't think that they I assume you mean these
other people associates that have contacted your mom would want
to mess with his connections. Right.

Speaker 21 (03:05:58):
You remember you talk about the copycat extortion, right, and then.

Speaker 9 (03:06:02):
You ask if he's too far removed or can he
still make a call. Are you referring to Garcia in that?

Speaker 21 (03:06:09):
Yeah, exactly so.

Speaker 9 (03:06:11):
Can Garcia make a call to try to figure out
who this is?

Speaker 21 (03:06:14):
Can Garcia helped stop the second extortion? Someone's doing a
piggyback extortion on the first. That's exactly what I said.

Speaker 9 (03:06:22):
On the topic of conversation for Kaptain mcbanawah. Don't you
say I look for things to do? I show you.
That's the difference. You don't ask me for shit. You
said all those things.

Speaker 21 (03:06:31):
Absolutely, that's brilliant. What I've been saying all along is
that I didn't think she was part of this, so
I was doing things to keep her happy from time
to time. At Ethan's birthday, I brought up there. I
gave her three hundred dollars. I helped her out with
the car when a car was broken.

Speaker 3 (03:06:43):
For sure.

Speaker 9 (03:06:43):
And then you say, listen, you giving somebody money is
not an admission of any kind of guilt. Would paying
the money have made her look guilty?

Speaker 21 (03:06:51):
That's what she was saying to me. She said, it's
the police. You can't pay the police. They're going to
thank you were part of a murder, they're gonna arrest you.

Speaker 9 (03:06:56):
But if it was an extortionist, it could have created
a monster, right.

Speaker 21 (03:07:01):
And if you don't pay the extortionists, you could get killed.

Speaker 9 (03:07:03):
So when these guys, I'm sorry.

Speaker 21 (03:07:06):
I said, if you don't pay the extortionist, you could
get killed, or you could keep getting extorted.

Speaker 9 (03:07:10):
But your main concern was that if we pay, this
guy will think I'm an ATM machine. Right, He'll keep
coming back again and again and again. Don't you articulate
that to Katherine.

Speaker 21 (03:07:19):
Knaightthvanawa if it was if it was an extorted that
was one of the one of the concerns, and the
other concern was not paying him and getting killed.

Speaker 9 (03:07:27):
But what you say is, well, I don't remember the
quote exactly. The main concern, what I'm most worried about
is that they're going to keep coming back for more.

Speaker 21 (03:07:34):
Right, I don't remember using the word the main concern.

Speaker 9 (03:07:37):
But what you don't say in here is like what
you or your homies have been doing to me for
two years?

Speaker 21 (03:07:44):
Of course not. I don't want her to think I'm
setting her up.

Speaker 9 (03:07:50):
Why Are you explaining extortion and how extortion works to Catherine.

Speaker 21 (03:07:54):
Knight Banaha in there? Yeah, because I know, but she
know who's dou doesn't she? I redeem myself.

Speaker 9 (03:08:02):
Do you also explain it to your mother how extortion works?
And she has known about it for two years too, write.

Speaker 21 (03:08:09):
From what I told her? Yeah, I'm reminding her.

Speaker 9 (03:08:16):
Then you say, if someone's messing with you, they're messing
with me, and if someone's messing with me, they're messing
with you. It's one and the same, right.

Speaker 21 (03:08:24):
Yes, I said that you're in this together, right, we're
both innocent.

Speaker 9 (03:08:35):
You were very obviously relieved on the wire when you
came to the conclusion that this was law enforcement, which
you agree with that very reef?

Speaker 21 (03:08:43):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 9 (03:08:44):
And at that same time then on the wire, you're
expressing relief, or I should say, shortly after all the
relief expressed on the wire, we've got the arrest of
Katherine Macmanawa, right, No, yeah, okay? Would you agree that
it goes relief on the wire then arrested Kathley Night Banna,

(03:09:07):
did you.

Speaker 21 (03:09:07):
Want to give me dates because Kathy was arrested six
months later?

Speaker 9 (03:09:11):
Okay? We agree that you were very relieved on the wire,
and that six months later Katherine mcmanama was arrested.

Speaker 21 (03:09:19):
She was arrested six months later, and six.

Speaker 9 (03:09:22):
Months later, after you were completely relieved on the wire,
you begin to exhibit these extreme behavior changes that we've
heard about. And what is your explanation for that?

Speaker 21 (03:09:33):
Because I thought I'd be falsely arrested.

Speaker 8 (03:09:46):
Strangely, Donna's not worried about that. She'll just willingly come
back when she has to turn herself in.

Speaker 9 (03:10:00):
Did you encourage Catherine macmanuah to reconcile with Garcia?

Speaker 21 (03:10:04):
That's a yes or no, yes for sure?

Speaker 8 (03:10:08):
Was that.

Speaker 9 (03:10:10):
A good decision for her or a good decision for you?

Speaker 21 (03:10:14):
Neither.

Speaker 9 (03:10:16):
You've heard your lawyers say that you talk a lot.
Do you agree with that?

Speaker 21 (03:10:20):
Yes? I did?

Speaker 9 (03:10:21):
And you talk a lot on the wire, right, yes
I do. Do you agree you're not a direct person?

Speaker 21 (03:10:32):
My direct person?

Speaker 9 (03:10:33):
There's a lot of circular talking on the wire.

Speaker 21 (03:10:36):
I mean, however, you want to describe my matterers talking,
You're welcome to describe them.

Speaker 9 (03:10:41):
I'll do that. In closing, what I'm asking is, do
you agree you are like that?

Speaker 21 (03:10:46):
I think it's times on direct for sure.

Speaker 9 (03:10:49):
Do you have a way of saying things without really
saying it.

Speaker 21 (03:10:53):
No, I think I'm pretty directed things.

Speaker 9 (03:10:54):
Do you think you can talk your way out of this?

Speaker 15 (03:10:57):
No?

Speaker 21 (03:10:57):
I don't. I'm not part of the murder.

Speaker 9 (03:10:59):
Who are they going to believe, right, an oral surgeon
or a gangster.

Speaker 21 (03:11:03):
That's extorting me in my driveway and coming and threatening me.

Speaker 9 (03:11:05):
You're untouchable, right, No, I'm not part of this murder.
There was a lot to talk about going to the
police on the wire, which I think we've will established
did not happen. But you've always gone to the police before, right,
I've had other things that have gone to the police
for you. You've gone to the police in reference to
something to do with your child's mother, yes or no. Yes,
you've gone to the police when you were threatened to

(03:11:28):
be blackmailed over something with a woman back in twenty fifteen.

Speaker 21 (03:11:32):
Remember that I didn't go to the police.

Speaker 9 (03:11:34):
Did you send a letter from your lawyer indicating that
her describing her actions as an attempted shakedown and indicating
that not only will doctor Adelson never pay a settlement,
he will undoubtedly prevail and seek attorney's fees against your client.

Speaker 21 (03:11:47):
Right, that's a civil complaint and somebody was making an
unfounded civil complaint threatening filing a lawsuit, and attorney handled
the civil complaint. The police were never notified. It was
a civil suit.

Speaker 9 (03:11:56):
It was somebody trying to shake you down for money.

Speaker 21 (03:11:58):
It was a founded claim from a civil suit to
me and another dentist that it was evolving.

Speaker 9 (03:12:04):
It was a claim that potentially had criminal implications as well.
Wasn't it doctor for me? Yes?

Speaker 21 (03:12:09):
No, it's never a police investigation with that.

Speaker 9 (03:12:12):
In twenty eighteen, did you report an aggravated assault where
a vehicle was driving aggressively and narrowly avoided striking you?

Speaker 21 (03:12:18):
I had a reporter almost kill my ten week old
puppy dog that I was walking because I was going
for a walk in the morning and he was stalking
outside my house.

Speaker 9 (03:12:24):
In twenty eighteen, did you report an aggravated assault where
a vehicle was driving aggressively and narrowly avoided striking you?

Speaker 21 (03:12:31):
Morelesent my dog too, But yeah, do.

Speaker 9 (03:12:33):
Your nephews deserve to know the whole truth about who
killed their father?

Speaker 21 (03:12:36):
Yeah? Now they do.

Speaker 9 (03:12:38):
Do Danny's parents deserve to know what happened to their son?

Speaker 21 (03:12:40):
Absolutely?

Speaker 9 (03:12:42):
And you say you knew I mean you now say
you knew a big piece of what happened, right?

Speaker 13 (03:12:47):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (03:12:47):
Do you feel bad about not volunteering? That did Danny's parents?

Speaker 21 (03:12:52):
I feel a sense of relief that now was able
to tell everybody what finally happened.

Speaker 9 (03:12:57):
Yesterday, almost ten years later.

Speaker 22 (03:12:59):
Right.

Speaker 10 (03:12:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (03:13:00):
And that's because you didn't just know a big piece
of it. You were a big piece of it, weren't you. Doctor.

Speaker 21 (03:13:06):
I was extorted and I knew a lot.

Speaker 8 (03:13:07):
Yeah, okay, you had to hold on to it, did y'all?
For all this time?

Speaker 10 (03:13:17):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (03:13:18):
Poor poor Charlie Aedelson. So that is the end of
his cross. Some of it applies just to Charlie, but
a lot of it Donna's gonna have to answer for too,
because she was the run writing those checks. So how

(03:13:39):
she's going to deal with that? My son told me
I was exhorted, and I don't know. It's gonna be wild.
It's gonna be wild. That means also, if she's going
this way, it also means Donna knew who murdered Dan
Marcel and didn't tell anyone for years and years. Either,

(03:14:02):
hard for a jury to believe, depends who they pick.
And she seems to know she's up against it. I
don't know if they're going to appeal on any of
these issues. I mean, she was waiving all of them.
She wanted to keep Dan Rashbaum, so I don't know

(03:14:23):
if she asked, even pre trial, any appellate issues. So
I'm gonna end the way I always end these episodes.

Speaker 2 (03:14:37):
With a.

Speaker 8 (03:14:43):
Victim impact statement. This one is from Charlie Adelson's trial.
It starts out, Dear Judge Everett, thank you for considering
the victim impacts. Thank you for considering this victim impact statement.
As you determine the sentence to on Dan Markel's murder,
I urge you to impose the maximum sentence available under

(03:15:08):
the law. I first met Dan in nineteen ninety seven
on a bus in Jerusalem. Over the years that followed,
we became very close friends, so much so that he
served as a groomsman at my wedding and I served
as best man at his that evening. As I waited

(03:15:31):
under the wedding canopy for Dan to walk down the aisle,
I never could have imagined that his marriage would end
with an act of such horrific depravity. The three things
most important to Dan above else, above all else were family, family,

(03:15:55):
and family. Yet because of his murder, his two children,
whom Dan loved above all else, have been cut off
not only from their father, but also from his and
their family. I cannot know the grief, confusion, anger, and

(03:16:15):
terror that they must feel from losing their father in
this way. I am unsure whether they will be given
an opportunity to submit their own victim impact statements. So
I would like to spend a moment telling the court
about Dan's relationship with them. Nothing was more important to

(03:16:35):
Dan than his children. As a professor, he enjoyed the
benefits of a flexible work day, and he used that
flexibility to ensure that he was an integral part of
their daily lives, taking them to daycare and school, picking
them up, making them dinner, reading to them, and tucking

(03:16:57):
them in at night. He was so proud of them,
and he wanted most of all for them to grow
up with a strong sense of the values most important
to him. Being committed to family, having a moral compass
and living a life of decency and kindness, having a
strong Jewish identity and appreciation for Jewish tradition, and having

(03:17:23):
the work ethic and perseverance to achieve their full potential.
His murder has destroyed their family. Taught his children at
a tender age that wickedness can destroy a life of
decency and hard work in the instance it takes for
a bullet to travel the length of a gun, and

(03:17:47):
has taken away their role model for Jewish manhood. There
were many things I admired greatly about Dan, but perhaps
his most extraordinarily extraordinary quality was his ability to connect
with and grow close to so many people. Woody Allen

(03:18:09):
once said that ninety percent of life is showing up.
Dan took that seriously. He made it a priority to
be present for his for friends at times of joy
and at times of grief, at weddings, baby namings, and
funeral and through that commitment he forged deep bonds with friends.

(03:18:31):
He was always the first person to call on a
birthday or anniversary before my own parents, and during difficult times,
called frequently to show support for me. Personally, Dan shared
the moments of greatest joy as well as those of
greatest sorrow. One of the images of Dan that will

(03:18:52):
stay with me forever is the exuberance and sheer joy
he shared while Dan the traditional horror dance at my
own wedding, and he was a pillar of support when
my wife and I were grieving the loss of my
brother in law. More than any other friend. He called

(03:19:13):
on a regular basis to check in, just to listen,
or to offer words of love and support. One of
the particularly particular tragedies of Dan's murder is that Dan
is not here to comfort us. Dan was also a connector.
He loved to help other people find a mentor, or

(03:19:34):
a job, or a spouse by introducing them to other
members of his large circle of friends. He deserves credit
for several marriages. Dan was also generous with his time.
We were in graduate school at the time at the
same time, and he spent countless hours helping me work

(03:19:54):
through my thoughts for my dissertation. In fact, he may
be the only person and who ever read and commented
on multiple drafts of the Tomae, and he did so
at his insistence sit tome I think It's tone on
multiple drafts of the ton and he did so at

(03:20:16):
his insistence. He understood that others did not have the
same unusual capabilities in this realm and did not respect
and did not accept expect excuse me. He understood that
others did not have the same unusual capabilities in this
realm and did not expect reciprocity. Above all, Dan was

(03:20:43):
an example for all who knew him of the power
of grieving. He gave his love and his friendship, and
through doing so built relationships and communities that now are
torn at their center. The court should impose the maximum

(03:21:04):
sentence on the intellectual author of his murder. Respectably submitted
Matthew Price. That is what I have for today. Let

(03:21:25):
me just hit a few of these. Bossy check, Bossy
Texas check. Yeah, three hours, thank you, ROBERTA. Three hours,
twenty three minutes. That's where we're at now. Thank you,
Bossy Texas Chick for supporting the channel. Appreciate it. Can't
do it without you, guys. Debbie Martin prayers for the

(03:21:47):
Markel Georgia and Sarah and poor markelboys. Yeah, I agree,
that's what I have for today. Please hit the thumbs
up on your way out. Guys, support the channel. You
can send me a Venmo, buy me a coffee, or

(03:22:08):
become a Patreon member and get access to content you
won't find anywhere else. The links are in the description
of this episode. Thank you all for hanging in with
me on this very long episode. I will be back
tomorrow at six pm Eastern and have a great night everybody.

Speaker 4 (03:22:43):
Oh what a speak.

Speaker 5 (03:22:47):
Sjore you you got it a murder because you wanted
to raise your daughter's kid. Talma has he is just
to stop on the legalization. My heavy is where all
the fancy people are. The TV is about five. You

(03:23:11):
can't get away from that tote tato who.

Speaker 9 (03:23:17):
Hope you know the guy you pay?

Speaker 5 (03:23:20):
Then you can't get away from that Oh Dan, what
to stitch your hand?

Speaker 8 (03:23:27):
You thought child was just for the.

Speaker 9 (03:23:30):
Little people, but now you're so blank.

Speaker 7 (03:23:33):
It's with the locked up proof.

Speaker 5 (03:23:34):
Your grandmother is locked down and you're one way ride
to feed on your blood. Dona, what to stitch your hand?

(03:23:59):
Your family exile from the social circles you swam in.
We all know you never made that pana break your
offer to babysit for dance, but you soon the nakee
in license plates and thinking abouble could have been Oh
gone off.

Speaker 9 (03:24:21):
You had to plan a murder. Rober

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