October 5, 2025 • 67 mins
Here’s the real reason Karen Read called Jen McCabe & Kerry Roberts the morning of January 29th, 2022? Let’s get into it!
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Carol Mumumeci, Therese Tunks, JC, Lizzy D, Elizabeth Drake, Texas Mimi, Barb, Deborah Shults, Debra Ratliff, Stephanie Lamberson, Maryellen Sudol, Mona, Karen Pacini, Jen Buell, Marie Horton, ER, Rosie Grace, B. Rabbit, Sally Merrick, Amanda D, Mary B, Mrs Jones, Amy Gill, Eileen, Wesley Loves Octoberfest, Erin (Kitties1993), Anna Quint, Cici Guteriez, Sandra Loves GatsbyHannna, Christy, Jen Buell, Elle Solari, Carol Cardella, Jennifer Harmon, DoxieMama65, Carol Holderman, Joan Mahon, Marcie Denton, Rosanne Aponte, Johnny Jay, Jude Barnes, JenTheRN, Victoria Devenish, Jeri Falk, Kimberly Lovelace, Penni Miller, Jil, Janet Gardner, Jayne Wallace (JaynesWhirled), Pat Brooks, Jennifer Klearman, Judy Brown, Linda Lazzaro, Suzanne Kniffin, Susan Hicks, Jeff Meadors, D Samlam, Pat Brooks, Cythnia, Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley, Diane Larsen, Mary, Kimberly Philipson, Cat Stewart, Cindy Pochesci, Kevin Crecy, Renee Chavez, Melba Pourteau, Julie K Thomas, Mia Wallace, Stark Stuff, Kayce Taylor, Alice, Dean, GiGi5, Jennifer Crum, Dana Natale, Bewildered Beauty, Pepper, Joan Chakonas, Blythe, Pat Dell, Lorraine Reid, T.B., Melissa, Victoria Gray Bross, Toni Woodland, Danbrit, Kenny Haines and Toni Natalie.
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Carol Mumumeci, Therese Tunks, JC, Lizzy D, Elizabeth Drake, Texas Mimi, Barb, Deborah Shults, Debra Ratliff, Stephanie Lamberson, Maryellen Sudol, Mona, Karen Pacini, Jen Buell, Marie Horton, ER, Rosie Grace, B. Rabbit, Sally Merrick, Amanda D, Mary B, Mrs Jones, Amy Gill, Eileen, Wesley Loves Octoberfest, Erin (Kitties1993), Anna Quint, Cici Guteriez, Sandra Loves GatsbyHannna, Christy, Jen Buell, Elle Solari, Carol Cardella, Jennifer Harmon, DoxieMama65, Carol Holderman, Joan Mahon, Marcie Denton, Rosanne Aponte, Johnny Jay, Jude Barnes, JenTheRN, Victoria Devenish, Jeri Falk, Kimberly Lovelace, Penni Miller, Jil, Janet Gardner, Jayne Wallace (JaynesWhirled), Pat Brooks, Jennifer Klearman, Judy Brown, Linda Lazzaro, Suzanne Kniffin, Susan Hicks, Jeff Meadors, D Samlam, Pat Brooks, Cythnia, Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley, Diane Larsen, Mary, Kimberly Philipson, Cat Stewart, Cindy Pochesci, Kevin Crecy, Renee Chavez, Melba Pourteau, Julie K Thomas, Mia Wallace, Stark Stuff, Kayce Taylor, Alice, Dean, GiGi5, Jennifer Crum, Dana Natale, Bewildered Beauty, Pepper, Joan Chakonas, Blythe, Pat Dell, Lorraine Reid, T.B., Melissa, Victoria Gray Bross, Toni Woodland, Danbrit, Kenny Haines and Toni Natalie.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, just to be clear, you didn't do it.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
We know who did it, Steve, we know, and we
know who spearheaded this cover up.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
You all know if John was beaten up and attacked
in that house, who did it?
Speaker 4 (00:13):
We don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
We don't know.
Speaker 5 (00:15):
We don't know, and it's not for us to know.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Somebody other than Karen.
Speaker 6 (00:20):
Somebody other than Karen is responsible for that for the
killing of John.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
You are listening to the ROBERTA.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Glass True Crime Report putting the true back in true
crime from New York City.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
ROBERTA. Glass is now on the record.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay, can have anybody hear me? I hope you can
hear me. Hello Tat, Hello Truth and Justice, Hello Texas,
Hello miss Lisa. Sorry I had to cough. Okay, Tater,
(01:37):
I'm glad. I don't know it was telling me my
microphone wasn't disconnected. Okay, Happy Sunday. How is everybody?
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Hey?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Ain't nohala back y'all. So today I want to talk
about I mean, everything is moving towards the civil case
with Karen Reid. So I wanted to talk about a
forgotten testimony at Lisa was forgotten by me. Something we
didn't see in the second trial that I think really
(02:10):
gives us a clue as to why Karen Reid called
This is the question I asked myself, why Karen Reid
had to call Jen McCabe and Carrie Roberts. She initially
called Michael Camerono and Catherine Camerano. Those were her first
choices to bring to get riled up and bring to
the her scene of the crime, and when they weren't available,
(02:38):
she picked Jen McCabe and Carrie Roberts. And I've always
said that I felt that, and I think that this
is still accurate, that she needed to mix it all up,
mix in players, because otherwise she shows she calls nine
(02:58):
to one one herself. She got Jen cave to call nine,
and she recorded Jen McCabe's nine one one call, which
makes of course, I think innocent fraud Watches pointing this
out on X makes her being so offended that she
was recorded without her knowledge by Aiden Carney kind of hypocritical.
(03:26):
Here she is recording strangely calling John o'keef knowing it
won't answer, and having the nine to one one recorded
on her phone. So in a sense, she was one
of the first wire tappers. But I always felt like
there was more to this story as to why she
(03:47):
got the idea that she had to be she had
to prove that she was in a panic and she
had to look for him, And where did she get
this idea that she was somehow going to be you know,
really really just leading people to her scene so that
(04:07):
they could discover Jon O'Keeffe, but also getting to actually
have witnesses that showed that she acts surprised. All that
is definitely part of it. But then I was listening
to the testimony of Laura Sullivan, and the story that
(04:31):
Laura Sullivan tells is awfully similar to what Karen reiedid
on the morning of the twenty nine, twenty twenty two.
Let's get into it. So, just to give you some background,
Laura Sullivan was dating and was pregnant with the child
(04:55):
of Pat Rogers, who was John o'keef's really good friend
on the Force. On one second, let me just share
my screen so I can show you a picture. This
is from Innocent Fraudwatch's excellent and most useful timeline. So
(05:20):
there's pat Rogers on the right, John O'Keefe on the
left there and they all went to Aruba together so
there was no way that Karen Reid hadn't heard this story.
But here's the story that Laura Sullivan told on this stand.
(05:41):
Take a listen.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
I met John in May of twenty thirteen. I met
him at a bar in South Boston with he was
with Pat Rogers at the time. Post meeting John, I
started dating Pat. And my son's father is Pat Rogers.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
And so as.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Far as as John o'keithan and your son's father Pat Robinson,
did you know what did you.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Come to know what they did for a living?
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Yeah? They're both Boston police officers.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
And did you know sort of what the relationship was
beyond co workers? Of yet.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
They were best friends.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
So at some point following that meeting in twenty thirteen,
you begin to date Rogers?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Is that right?
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And what happened?
Speaker 6 (06:49):
So in July of twenty thirteen, I became pregnant and
in nova member of twenty thirteen pack community.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
And okay, yeah, following that, how.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Would you describe sort of relationship with mister okeeper the ball? Okay?
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Hello, So.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
In November of twenty thirteen, I was on a work
trip and I had not had the best conversation with
Pat it was kind of it just.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Didn't feel right. And I called John.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And little like Karen and John o'keeff, who had been fighting,
So do you.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Need to go find him? I can't get a hold
of him. He won't answers phone, and.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
So John left his nephew's birthday party and called a
bunch of people on the way, and ultimately Pat was
found in the basement of his house.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
And John was there.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Immediately following, but he was the one that found people
to go find Pat. Immediately following that, John never really
left my side, you know, as a support system.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And at some point following that you had this Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So Karen had to know that story. So John O'Keefe
was the hero who got other people to find Pat Rogers.
Now Karen, Karen Reid is playing that role, and she's
going to be the big hero. I knew something wasn't right.
I didn't hear from him. I mean, this is almost
(09:08):
an identical story now, and then it has the added
benefit for Karen of mixing it all up, of having
other people there. She was looking for people who would
you know, the Cameranos. It took forever to get Michael
(09:30):
Camerono on the stand. Took to the second trial to
really for him to come out with the fact that
John O'Keeffe was angry at Karen Reid about the plumber
and that you know, Catherine Camerono said, you can't remember
anything Karen Reid told her. It was just a lot
of nonsense. She knew that they that they would that
(09:53):
their whims essentially, sorry, I'm going to be very welcome
to welcome to tell it like it is Sunday. They
protect themselves, put their head down and they're not going
to call Karen read out for anything that she says
that's self incriminating. She knew those were her first picks,
(10:15):
and then she picked Carrie Roberts and Jennifer McCabe. And
because Jennifer McCabe was going to be the strongest witness
against her, and it was we're going to remember everything,
she had to be, of course the villain. But I mean,
how similar is the story. But I mean the reason
(10:44):
I came to it today is because I was really
going to talk about, you know, some of these witnesses
that we haven't seen. I'm just going to put out
an SOS for them. Richie the Mansfield Plumber, if anybody
knows this Richie the Mansfield plumber putting out an SOS,
please get in touch with me Vertic Glass twenty three
(11:06):
at Gmail, Love to talk to you. Did you hear
from Karen Reid on the night of January twenty eighth,
twenty twenty two? Do you put the seats on crooked?
The toilet seats on crooked? Did Karen Reid have a
rusty pipe that delayed her getting to meet John O'Keeffe
(11:27):
that night? Strangely she springs this on John O'Keeffe, who
had put in a chandelier for Karen Reid two weeks
earlier in her home in Mansfield. Was this a way
of making him angry and somehow getting him out to
Mansfield later for her imaginary plumbing issues or maybe they're real?
(11:53):
Is Richie? Does Richie the Mansfield Plumber exist? If anyone
knows him? Talked to him? Knows a plumber named Richie
who works in Mansfield, mass Come talk to me, Love
to hear what you have to say? Why have we
never seen those text messages? And I just thought, you
(12:14):
know that there is a missing witness for the civil
trial and the way that they framed this. I thought
was wrong for this trial was that Karen Ree is
so jealous. I mean that's how it was really reported.
It was like the rub incident. We'll listen to some
(12:36):
more of it, but no one picked out that this
is almost the same. I think Adam Lalley must have
this is the same exact story. How are you guys feeling?
(12:56):
I think she could have been Nelly. I mean he
tells her, you know you're jonesing for a drink, so
go to the bar. I don't know her drinking habits.
She certainly had a full bar at home. But Karen
Read's behavior really has to come in and their relationship,
(13:18):
because if you listen further on in this testimony, you
get such a picture of a coercively controlled or DV
situation we usually don't think of with a cop a man,
you know, a macho man being the victim of but
it happens. And someone wrote on my shorts I did
(13:43):
a short video from my conversation with Brendan Kane where
Brendan Kane was talking about how John O'Keeffe the last
picture of them together John O'Keeffe had to take to
send to Karen to prove to him to prove to her,
excuse me where he was. And also there's text message
(14:09):
of John O'Keeffe sending a picture of himself with his
father to Karen Reid on the twenty eighth again, so
it seemed to be a habit that she demanded photographic
evidence of where John O'Keeffe was as a way to
keep power and control over him. But listen to this,
(14:33):
and Laura Sullivan seems to understand that things are very
wrong in this relationship and asked him to if he
wants to talk about it, and he clams up. It
seems like John O'Keeffe wasn't one to you know, talk
about his problems with other people, you know, at any
(14:56):
great length. But it was cracks in the relationship were
showing back in this trip to Aruba. So let's take
to listen, this is some interesting testimony. Let's take a
listen to it together. Let me see if I can
just speed it up, maybe just like a half of
(15:16):
fraction so that we're not here, you know, all all night.
And I'm sorry that the sound is impossible. If anybody
watched the whole first trial, it's just impossible and near
impossible to fix at you.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Have a conversation to it was.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
It was his birthday, December of twenty thirteen, and we
went to the Playwright, which is where we had we
had all met, and I gave him a card and
I asked him to be the FN's godfather and he
said yes.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And the relations to your son was.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Yes, very much.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
So he was every birthday, Christmas, he was. He was
always in contact. He was the first person in my
delivery room after I gave birth. He was a constant.
He was a connection to pat and always making sure
that you know, Ben was taken care of in the
sense of being there to tell stories or what have you,
(16:18):
from his right.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But what a benefit to Karen read the first person
on the scene, the one who really I tried to
make so much more sense when she's on this step
screaming I tried to save his life. It was the
only one trying to help. But no one bought that,
not even the free Karen readers by that that she
was the only one trying to save his life. She
(16:41):
was the one she was trying to deflect away from,
you know, her crime, while simultaneously at other moments admitting
to it, mixing it all up putting people in the
fear of state, acting hysterical, getting her of sections so
(17:01):
she didn't have to talk to the police. It was
all about Karen Reed, It was she just doesn't have
it in her. She plays the hero so badly, is
what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
The relationship with Pat and through.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
His relationship with you and your son, become familiar with
your family as well. Yeah, yep. And in regard to
your family, was there some kind of term or how
would they.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Were the godfather?
Speaker 8 (17:32):
He was?
Speaker 5 (17:33):
He was called the godfather to almost everybody.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Now, man, if I can turn your attention back to
that summer of twenty twenty one, you receive a text
of mis stroke.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Keith for that right and so sorry, you do have
to say yes or no?
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Sorry, Yes, after you receive that text, did you reach
out to Yes. I gave him a call because I
was excited. I was immediately excited.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
I gave him a call explained to him that.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's how you are. I mean, that's I mean, it's
a spectrum of so Krrie May saying a lot of
people were saying Jen and carry are to calm. Well,
that's when you're trying to support someone who's hysterical. You
do get try to act calm. It's not helpful to
(18:19):
the firefighters or the first responders, and you're in shock.
Karen Reid wasn't in shock because she knew what she did.
She knew she had to put on a performance of
a lifetime and try to sell this as her as
the great hero, the great rescuing hero. I mean, this
(18:39):
was a role that John O'Keefe played so naturally, So
it just all makes sense that Karen read Why would
Karen Reid call him the patron saying of Canton because
that's a role that she was now trying to emulate
and play in this story. I don't know. To me,
(19:00):
this was like it made so much more sense. It's
just like a missing piece.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
We had a group of rooms we were going with.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
I don't even know the number at that time that had,
you know, signed up to go, but it was a
lot of kids. It was all of our friends and
that they would have a great time.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
And from that, did you give you any sense or
or say anything about who from from or whom?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
He had mentioned that it would be the kids, and he.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Said, Carrie, I got it totally. I totally got it.
I totally got it. I wasn't saying that you were
saying that. I just thought that was an interesting point.
It's like a free care and read talking point. They're
too calm. They must be guilty something. Sorry to interrupt.
People are saying, I don't know. There's one person who's saying,
(19:48):
I'm in a you know, I put up the I'm
interrupting too much, probably am, But I do put up
If people want to watch, I do put up the links.
And the people want to watch without my commentary. Some
of this is commentary, so I do feel the need
to put in some commentary. But I do put in
(20:11):
the links and the description for people who want to
watch it without it. But I catch you, Carrie, Karen
would be joining him as well.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
And at that point, at some point.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
That you knew him Karen, correct, Yes, at that point.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
I had not.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
I knew that they were dating, but I didn't I
had never met Karen tho In in.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Addition to himself, and with mister Keith's reading and correct. Yes,
and if you know, in relation to your son, as
far as his happened, where.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
They uh, they are like three three years apart?
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Yeah, three years A part.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Out when you have that phone conversation with miss Keith
interest does the show as.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Far as going.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
After, you know, asking a couple of questions.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
He I could hear Karen in the background, and he
put Karen on the phone, and that was the first
time I had spoken to her. He basically said, he
just talked to her. So if you can answer her questions,
do you recall what they were? She was interested in
the the room set up, how many people could sleep
in a room, and how the room is set up.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
You have a king sized bedroom.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
And then there's a kitchen area, and then there's a
living room that has a pull out couch, and I
explained that you could.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So Karen Reid had to have her own room. She
couldn't sleep in the bed with Joan. She had to
have her own room in her own space.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
It's a four person occupancy room and you could get
a roll away bed as well.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And following that conversation, when was the next time that
you had any common.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
So during that conversation, Karen mentioned that she needed her
own bathroom and she needed her own space, and that
she wanted two rooms. And so I put them in
contact with a woman that I knew had two rooms
for them to you know, figure that piece out. I
don't handle any of that. I put people in contact
with whoever owns the rooms. I put them in contact
(22:25):
with with the woman who had the two rooms, and
I know that they had, you know, paid her relatively quickly.
I mentioned to John that the rooms. I couldn't promise
that the rooms would be next to each other, and
they weren't. They were on opposite sides of the hotel.
But they've got two rooms.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And when you say opposite side of the hotel, where
you know sort of where those rooms were relations to
each other.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
And so the the the pool and lobby is in
the center, and then the hotel comes like this and
there are pool walkout rooms on the first floor of
each and Karen and John were on this side and
the kids were on this side, and they both had
walkout rooms.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And as far as you know about how far away
they work with.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
Children, I would say, I mean steps wise, maybe two hundred.
But I mean the hotel is is it's small enough,
but it was separated by a lobby the front entrance.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I mean, I really think Karen read they were going
to all say she expected everyone to say, well, you're
not the type of person who would who would do this?
You were you actually, you know, went looking for him.
You're you're a hero. I think she expected or half
hoped that they'd all say, Karen, you're a hero. You're
(23:52):
the one who jumped on his body, lifted up your
shirt and rubbed yourself on him, doing absolutely nothing of
any any substance or help. But thankfully for you, you
you you were here.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
And I.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Don't know, do you think the point was so seriously
in jurim she knew she had killed him. She had
to know. I mean, I just think it's an omission
in the negative. He didn't look mortally wounded. I think
she knew he did. She's like, oh, better cover this up.
I'm not the type. I'm the rescuer hero type. I'm
(24:34):
the patron saying I'm the patron saying of Mansfield the
outside entrance.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Now with regard to you, when when was it?
Speaker 9 (24:47):
So?
Speaker 6 (24:47):
The timeshare right, The timeshare rooms run Friday to Friday,
so we were booked for the thirty first through the seventh.
Josh's birthday is December thirtieth, so we went down as
a family a day early and we had friends who
were already down there since Christmas. John's timeshare room woman
reached out and said, hey, we're leaving early if you
(25:08):
want to arrive early, so he him, Karen and the
kids actually came down on the thirtieth as well. They
were on the flight following us, and then the rest
of the Sixtish people, however am anywhere there, showed up
on the thirty first.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And so from that first day that you arrived there,
as far as when you got there on thirtieth, when
was the first time that you saw John or when
was the first time that you saw anyone?
Speaker 5 (25:32):
From that, it was.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
We were at the pool, So it was not long
after they had landed. He texted me and said we're here,
and then and I jumped out of the pool and
went to the lobby to see him. And then on
the way back from the lobby, I saw somebody banging
on the window on the left hand side of the rooms,
and I didn't know who it was, and then I
saw Kaylee and I was like, oh, well, that must
be Karen.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
And again it was just the first time that m.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Hm, yeah, banging seems to be Karen's style. Banging on
the door I mean, does any remember the reports from
Cayley's testimony said that John walked away from the fight
and went to his bedroom and closed the door and
(26:20):
locked it. And Karen reads like pounding on it a fight.
I saw banging on the door as the first first time,
she sells cared that must be Karen.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yes, and just for purposes as.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Yes, she's right there.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Okay, now after you see the person bang on the window,
what happened?
Speaker 6 (26:52):
She came out, She gave me a big hug, said,
it's nice to meet you. I've heard so much about you.
I recognized you from pictures and.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Uh following along from there? What happened then? As as
far as the Davis.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
So they mentioned it was Josh's birthday. We had already
made plans to go out for dinner. Our friends who
had been there since Christmas, have a seventeen year old
daughter who watched our children, so we could go out
for dinner. I mentioned it to John. I said, you know,
we'll just add you to the reservation. You can join
us for dinner. The kids can stay with Chloe, And
they said absolutely, So we all went out for dinner
(27:26):
that evening to scream Needle.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And tug. Where is that animation of the hotel?
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Then it's probably about a fifteen ish minu at cab Ride.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
And when you arrived there, and what if anything you
were called about the dinner or.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
How it went.
Speaker 6 (27:42):
So we were sitting outside on the patio. It was Karen, myself,
our friend Laura. Across from Laura was her husband Dave.
Josh was in front of me, and John was in
front of Karen.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
And what if anything specifically recall about dinner or what happened?
Speaker 6 (28:02):
So we the waiter came over, he ordered, he started
taking drink orders. Karen placed her order, I placed mine,
Laura placed hers, Dave placed his, and then Josh ordered
a dirty martini with blue cheese stuffed olives.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I'll know it.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
I don't know where it's going and you can move
to strike if it unless you wanted to see me
and okay me.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So burning back to at the restaurant, the drinks that
order people have with the app and at the end
of the evening, as far as bill, and what if
anything you recall.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
About Karen had paid the bill prior to us receiving.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
It, and what if any reactions that you.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
Were the entire table was kind of taken aback, you know,
said it wasn't necessary I wanted.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Apparently this was a pattern with Karen and Kaylee. She
bought Kaylee very efensive gifts, and you could say she's
very generous, or you could say that it was a
way to control people and manage impressions and make them
feel indebted to her. I mean you could you could
go either way.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
To Venmo or give cash or something along those lines.
And she declined, saying that.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I happened to think it's you know, the latter. But
just knowing Karen's personality, she certainly hasn't been too generous
to the witnesses or to anyone else who's help. Who
helped her out that morning, she she.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Was honored to be there and wanted to pay for it.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Turn your attention to the following, what if anything you
were called about the next day being that would have been.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Yes, So turn.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Your attention to what if anything you were called about
in specific regards.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
To mister.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
John was very vocal on the thirtieth on how he
just wanted to sit in the pool and watch the
Alabama game.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And he was a pretty big Alabama fan. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yes, I thought. Brendan Kane told me why he rooted
for Alabama, but I have to ask him again because
of this escapes me.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
And so over the course of that day, what if
any interactions did you have with either sort or if
any interactions did you have.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
I saw him in the pool, I know he was.
He was sitting at the pool bar watching the game
with Josh. I saw the kids. I recall seeing Karen.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
I don't remember if we spoke or not, but it
was mostly in the pool because we were waiting for
the rest of our friends to show up.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Now, amongst the rest of your friends that showed up,
do you have any siblings?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I do, And how many siblings?
Speaker 5 (30:55):
I have two? And I have a younger brother and
a younger sister.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
And with reference to your younger sister.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Marietta, and how much younger than you was there? She's
ten years younger than me.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And what's Marietta Sullivan? Was she coming in on that
day as well?
Speaker 5 (31:10):
She was?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
And you recalled about what time it was that she
arrived or that she came to the first time.
Speaker 6 (31:17):
It's tough to remember, but I want to say everybody
showed up on one of the first or second flights
that came out of Boston, so I'd say she was
there by one pm.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
And if you recall, what if any plans were there
as far as dinner was concerned on that evening the duties.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
So what we tend to do is.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
Book reservations and if people are interested in joining, they
can join us. And that night we had approximately forty
people going to have dinner on the beach at Moomba
Beach around I want to say it was like seven
o'clock we had our reservations for.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
And the mister Okath and the feminist Read joined you
for dinner.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
That they did not know.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I mean thinks that that's just for a moment as
far as miss Read was concerned prior to your ride
won the group, but did you have her phone number?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Contact? And when was it that.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
John had added her?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
And I and right, But I think that she's been
doing this her whole life is being bringing in other characters,
bring in other people, I mean to cover up her
own behavior and point away from her own behavior, because
I mean, if you look at what's going on with
(32:30):
Aiden Karney and Karen Reid now, so Karen Reid's obviously
trying to distance at herself publicly from Aiden Karney. There's
rumors that there might be some kind of federal or
she's worried. There's rumors that she's worried because Aiden Karney
said she was worried when they took her phones of
(32:51):
what's on her phones. You can listen to the voicemail
on my shorts of her saying, do you know what?
Speaker 4 (32:57):
You know?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know what was on those phones? Being charged with
some kind of federal charges in this for witness harassment, etc.
I don't know. I don't know how that's gonna work
after the fact. But okay, this is why I'm skeptical
of it. But Aidan Karney says she's at least worried
(33:20):
about those charges coming down. So she's gonna save herself
and publicly distance herself so when if this stuff comes,
she's always one step ahead. If this stuff comes out
on her phones, she's already publicly broken with him. She's
(33:40):
publicly broken with him before, you know, always made a
distance between herself and you can see the text messages
or communications from you and Nettie to Aiden Karney saying
don't get mad, I don't shake your hand at the hearing.
But you know, we have to you have to maintain
(34:04):
your objective stance, and Aidan Kearney was lying to his
audience for months that he didn't talk to Karen Reid,
that he had nothing to do with the defense team
instead of being basically a wing of the of Karen
Reid's defense team. It is what he was and still is.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
Chloe to a group text the night that we had
gone out for dinner to make sure that we could
all communicate with Chloe to make sure the kids were okay.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
So we got our phone number in relationship watching kids.
As far as Patrick Kelly and your children and everybody cracks. Now,
if you recall you go out to dinner, I think
the reservation was about seven or so. Do you recall
about what time was that you got.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Back to the hotel.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
I want to say it was around nine thirty ten
o'clock by the time my group got back, I know
there was a couple of different seatings, so we probably
got back around like nine thirty ten o'clock.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
And as far as your group was concerned, your Marietta,
which she within your group to dinner, yes, and beyond
uh sort of your younger sister Marietta what did you
have other sort of media family.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
With you on My mother was with us as well.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
And with regard to you Marietta and your mother, what
if anything was there as far.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
As where were each of them?
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Uh so they had their they had their own room.
I think it was a couple away from us on
the fifth floor.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Is that the top four?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
As far as hotels, yes, Now, once you arrived back
from dinner, where where it.
Speaker 6 (35:28):
Was, we go to the pool area the kids can swim.
We ring in the New Year at the pool bar,
watching it on the on the TVs, and then watching
the fireworks.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Now, when you came back to the hotel and you
went at some point to the pool area, you're just
the Marietta.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You know where she went.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
She actually when we got back from dinner, she went
up to her room with my mom and essentially put
my mom to bed and she didn't want to be
up anymore, but she went to go change as well.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Now, when you came down to the pool area, as
far as mister will keep.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
Them in that area, I saw John I want to
say around ten ten thirty ish, I don't know the
exact time.
Speaker 6 (36:10):
It was definitely before midnight. He was standing behind me
at the pool bar.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
And at some point, at some point does her sister
come out to.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
The pool Yeah, so right before I saw John at
the pool bar, I saw my sister. She came out
and she was visibly upset.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
All right, thank you, So, JERRYS.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
You're about to hear a testimony about certain conduct or
behavior allegedly committed by miss read. Be mindful that the
defendant is not charged with committing any crimes other than
those charge within the indictments.
Speaker 6 (36:50):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
The witnesses testimony may not, and indeed must not, be
considered by you as any evidence that the defendant has
a bad character or as evidence that she has a
propensity to commit the crimes with which she has been charged.
You may not take the defendant's prior acts as a
substitute for proof that the defendant committed the crimes charged here.
But you may consider the act solely on the limited
(37:10):
issue of the state of mind of the defendant and
the nature of her relationship with John O'Keefe, as it
might go to motive or intent. You may not consider
this evidence for any other purpose. Specifically, you may not
use it to conclude that if the defendant committed the
act or apps that she must also have committed the
offenses with which she's charged. You can only use the
evidence for the limited purpose of how it goes to
(37:32):
the defendant's state of mind, the nature of her relationship
with John O'Keeffe, as it may go to motive, and
just for the records. My findings are the same that
I made at sidebar previously. Go ahead, mister Lelia.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Thanks now with regard to you, at some points, if
it comes out to the Schoolaria.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Where you were, is that right correct? And you know
where I do not know? And when your sister comes
out Toolia.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
She said, yeah, that that's sustained. I thought you were
doing something else.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
When your sister comes out through the pool, how would
you describe her mean? Or when she.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
No, she was frustrated.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
And at some point did you have a conversation without
with our conversation. At some point did you have a
conversation with her about something that had just done. Yes, now,
following that conversation with your system, at some point went
to that Miserel Keith come back.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
Out to after I spoke with her. Yes, he came
out to the pool area.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And you know about how long a period of time.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
It was between the time that your sister came out
to the pool era and Mi Israel Keith came out.
Speaker 6 (38:39):
I mean, I would say approximately twenty minutes, but I
don't I don't really know exact timing.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Now, when mister Keith came back out, did you have
any conversations? I didn't exactly describe that conversation.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
All right?
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Is this the instruction that you were talking about instead
of the other one? All right, so we'll sure as
I have another instruction for you. So you're about to
hear evidence of statements made by John O'Keefe.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Is that accurate, now.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Mister Lelley, all right, these statements are being admitted only
for a limited purpose of establishing John O'Keeffe's state of mind.
You're not to consider this test.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I mean, these instructions are so ridiculous. Someone left a
message saying, well, actually, I think I started telling this
story in the short saying, well, talking about the picture
that her bad behavior, that you could be an awful person.
(39:33):
And I hear this a lot, but it doesn't make
your a killer. True, But don't you think an awful
person is more likely to kill? But you're not allowed
to make this inference take any of these prior bad
acts into consideration.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Cimonious proof that the defendant has a bad character.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I mean, it's not proof that they did it. I
get that you're not allowed to use it as a proof,
but to only uses it to John O'Keeffe's state of mind.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
And to not look at the whole story as a
whole or propensity to commit crimes. The testimony of witnesses
recounting conversations with mister O'Keeffe can only be used as
they go to the defendant's motive or intent on January
twenty eighth or twenty ninth, and only if you find
that the defendant was aware of mister O'Keeffe's state of
mind at the time of the crime and would be
(40:24):
likely to respond to it. There need not be direct
evidence that the defendant learned of mister o'keeff's state of mind,
so long as you reasonably can infer from the evidence
that she did learn of it.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
Okay, yes, yep.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
If I could take you back and miss out and
you have a conversation with him so.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Kelly writes that the defense paid an expert and the
judge allowed it. Well, expert witnesses for the defense, and
sometimes the Commonwealth can be paid. The payment is sint
the issue, it's the lying about the payment. So instead
(41:04):
they presented those witnesses as that they were paid for
by the Feds, that they were totally impartial, that the
Commonwealth could have used them. That's the issue, not that
they were paid. It's that they lied about being paid
and presented them to the jury as totally impartial witnesses.
I mean that could have totally acquitted Karen Reid. You know,
(41:28):
had the jury known the real story, we might have
got a conviction first time round. I mean, there was
so much lying by the defense, lying, criminal behavior, not
handing over discovery, not playing by the rules, and this
(41:49):
judge Kenoni just alloweder courtroom to become a kangaroo court.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
What that conversation was.
Speaker 6 (42:02):
I turned around and I was pretty shocked to see him.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
I said, what's going on? And he said nothing. I said,
did and Karen have words? And he said, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (42:13):
And I said, well, that's not what Edis said. And
I asked him if everything was okay, And at that time,
his his phone was lighting up and it was it
looked like call texts, call the text and it said
Karen on his phone?
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Do you make that operation worth it?
Speaker 6 (42:32):
I asked him if he needed to take it, and
he said, yes, she's crazy.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
I got to take care of this.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Was that the last time that you saw it? Is
following me.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
So here's Karen Ree doing very much what she did
all of the day of the twenty eighth call text, call, text,
seems like Karen and stop calling busy, but she has
no respect for She had no respect for John O'Keefe's boundaries.
(43:12):
You know, does that kind of behavior abusers? That's abusive behavior,
not respecting someone's boundaries, calling, texting, calling, texting.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
Yeah, I did not. I saw the children, but we
didn't see them that day.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
No attention to the following day.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
What was sort of the plan as far.
Speaker 6 (43:38):
As what was going on that our hotel has a
private island. The hotel we stay out has a private island,
and we rented all eight of the cabanas between the
sixty of us that were there. And when the caban
has went on sale, I had reached out to John
and asked him if he wanted me to get him one,
and he said sure, So I booked one for him
and he paid me, uh for that cabana.
Speaker 5 (44:01):
So we all went out that morning.
Speaker 6 (44:04):
And it was probably around you know, ten o'clock in
the morning, and they weren't there yet, and so I
sent him a text and I said, you know, are
you coming or do you want me to sell this cabana?
Because there was other you know, couples there. At least
you could have made you know, the money back. And
he asked me who was there and I said, to everybody,
and I named off I think I named off a
couple names. I'm not really sure, but I said, everybody's here.
(44:26):
And when you said that, he said, well, apparently I
made out with your sister the other night.
Speaker 5 (44:34):
According to Karen, now, is that first.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Time that you had heard that?
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Yes, fair s, whatever you had heard from your sisters was.
Speaker 5 (44:43):
Not that ill the correct?
Speaker 1 (44:47):
And what was your reaction when.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Ill?
Speaker 5 (44:52):
I was shocked.
Speaker 6 (44:53):
I immediately found my sister and said, did you make
out with John?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Assisted you went to talk to your sister? Who was
it that your sister was with when you went to
talk to.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
I'm not I don't recall who was who was standing
near her, maybe my mom.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
I don't know as far as your sister was concerned
at that time. Was she dating someone?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
And the person that she was dating was that person
on the trip? He was yes, And was that person
that she was dating it was on the well where
they act that man is on that data.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
They were yes.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Now, as far as.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
You have some conversation in regards to your sister and
then at some point do you go back and have
her the.
Speaker 6 (45:29):
Conversation with Yeah, I said, I I text him back.
Speaker 5 (45:33):
I said, I just talked to Da. She said absolutely not.
That did not happen.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Let's sustained. I'll strike that.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Now at some point after that exchange, Uh, did Missie
Keith and miss Reid and were the kids.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Come out through the command?
Speaker 5 (45:47):
They did? Yes?
Speaker 3 (45:48):
And at any point how would you describe sort of
how misteril Keith and or miss Reid was acting.
Speaker 6 (45:54):
When they came out to the exvand but Karen immediately
went in the water. I just recall her being like
loading in the ocean for a good junk of the day.
John was hopping around from the different commands, talking to people.
One of my favorite pictures of him is with my
son from that day.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
You have any conversation with on he came out to
the commander.
Speaker 6 (46:17):
No, we kind of just kept it light. We didn't
we didn't really talk about anything that had happened. I
was just kind of trying to stay out of it
for now and.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Following a sort of the commanded situation or the command
of day.
Speaker 6 (46:30):
What happened, I suppose that day. I think I saw
John one other time. I saw him in the pool.
It was the one time that him and I were alone.
He didn't seem like he was himself oh low. He
seemed distant, and I asked him if he was okay,
and he kind of just shrugged it off, and I said,
(46:52):
you know, are you happy? And he kind of, you know,
just rolled his eyes and shrugged it off. So well,
you know, something along the lines of what your life
is too short to not be happy. And he goes, well,
you know, Laura, it is what it is. I did
ask him if he wanted to talk about it. I said,
you want to talk about it?
Speaker 5 (47:09):
And he's like, not really.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
I hate that it is what it is. What does
that mean? What does that mean? It is what it is?
Get out of it. It's just like a way saying,
you know, shutting down and not talking about it. It
is what it is. She's crazy. She's not crazy, she's
she's saying she just doesn't have doesn't have any compassion
(47:43):
for anyone but herself. She's not made like that psychopath.
She's cunning, calculating, liar. And I don't know how John O'Keefe,
(48:09):
as a police officer usually really smart it sessing out lies,
dealt with Karen Reid. Probably they fought a lot over it.
That's probably how that he dealt with its.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Change in the whole area. When was the next time
that you saw.
Speaker 5 (48:35):
I had spoken to him.
Speaker 6 (48:38):
We all went on a jolly pirate. We had all
bought tickets in advance, so we had basically rented the
whole boat for everybody to go.
Speaker 5 (48:47):
We had bought four.
Speaker 6 (48:48):
Tickets, and we had gotten a bus from our hotel,
and he didn't show up for the bus and wasn't
answering my calls or my texts.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
And then we finally.
Speaker 6 (48:57):
Got down to where the boat was a boat was
about to leave, and he messaged me he's like not
going to make it kids luck late, and so I
didn't think anything of it.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
And after that I saw him.
Speaker 6 (49:08):
And Karen the night before they left, and they ended
up leaving a day or two early so that the
kids could get back to school.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
And when you saw them, where was that in relationship?
Speaker 5 (49:19):
Right outside the hotel is a is a marketplace that
has a bunch of restaurants in arcade.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yes, she was in jail, Scilla and that's and her
bail hearing was when we heard Yanette say that she
has a brain tumor and no colon and a host
of other ailments that we've never heard about. Again. She
also told Brian Higgins that she had colon cancer and
(49:48):
ten operations for it, which is you know, my father
tied to that disease and he didn't have ten operations,
So I mean, you know, she seems to use imaginary
illnesses to manipulate and have power and control over people
(50:12):
and pull attention.
Speaker 6 (50:14):
Was sitting at the five o'clock somewhere bar that looks
into the arcade with my best friend Val and my
friends David, Laura and Karen, and John.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Walked up, What if any conversations did you have.
Speaker 6 (50:27):
With Karen grabbed me and she said, hey, I'm sorry,
I thought I saw something that I didn't and I
would like to pay for some of your sister's room
and how did you respond to it? I said, it's
absolutely not necessary.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
She didn't think she saw it. She just knew that
she could keep power and control over John by keeping
him on the defensive. How do you think you saw something?
She's this was just her line. And when she was
going off with Brian Higgins and already checked out of
(51:06):
the relationship, I believe, and moving on, she was writing
John o'keef like, just tell me if you're not into
it anymore, if you've checked out, you know, putting it
on him. He's like, I'm just not into us fighting
all the time. Like I'm not as quick to be
lovey dovey. This is as you are. I'm not getting
(51:30):
it word for word, but you get the idea that
lovey dovey was the word he used. I'm not as
quick to be lovey dovey after a fight as you are.
And then Karina Kulla Keith is strangely testified that at
the bar that night they were lovey dovey, something that
no one else said. So I think Karen Reid showed
(51:52):
Karina Kuala Keith. This is her text messages to and
from John that night. She is a real snake in
the graund us that Kreina Coal of Keith is.
Speaker 5 (52:04):
Just an apology will do?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
And did she persist in wanting to pay for the room?
Speaker 6 (52:10):
She did, and she just said, I I will apologize,
but I something along the lines of, you know, I
want to pay for some of her room. Can I
just have her room number? I don't remember if I
gave her the remember or not, I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
And with regard to that trip, when was it, When
was the next time? Well, when was the last time
that you saw So.
Speaker 6 (52:32):
The day that they were leaving, I saw him by
the pool. He came up, he gave me a big hug.
He said, I love you. This was a great trip,
thank you so much. And I said, well, you're definitely
in again for next year and he said absolutely. And
that was the last time I physically saw him.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
And so that conversation just turned back for a moment.
As far as with regards you know what day that
would have been, as far as in relations to when
leaving early January, I.
Speaker 5 (52:59):
Want to say it was a fit h I want
to say it was January fifth.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
After after you have a conversation.
Speaker 6 (53:11):
I talked to him via text a couple of times
about a couple of different things, but one of them was,
as I mentioned, we start planning a year in advance,
and I said, rooms are coming available, are you in?
And he said, let me let me recover from this
trip first.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
It's so telling about John that even with all the
issues that Karen caused, that he wanted everyone to feel
good and say this was a great trip and make
them feel good. And that's a that's someone who's really
sensitive to other people's feelings. Now, and then he says,
let me recover from this trip. So he's saying it
(53:53):
this wasn'n't a great trip for him, he has it
needs time to recover from it. But after but when
he he knew that she had put it together in
some ways, he didn't want her to feel responsible for
the havoc that Karen Reid caused on that trip. I
(54:17):
find this testimony really sad and really touching. I don't
know about anyone else.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Now, man, if I could turn your attention to Saturday,
January twenty nine, call that day, I do. And at
some point warning.
Speaker 5 (54:37):
During that day I did. I received a call from.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
I'll hear that she received a from.
Speaker 5 (54:45):
I received a call from.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
My aunt, and what did you learn from.
Speaker 5 (54:50):
That? John O'Keefe had passed away?
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Okay, after you hung up the phone with Ron's what
did you do with that?
Speaker 6 (55:01):
I called him, I called anybody's number that I had
associated with the family.
Speaker 5 (55:07):
I ended up calling Kaylee. I texted Kaylee. I texted Karen, and.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Without in regard to what I said that Kaylee responded.
Speaker 5 (55:17):
To she did and at some point.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
She did a phone call or text.
Speaker 5 (55:25):
It was a text later that afternoon.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
And you recall what she said in a text.
Speaker 5 (55:34):
She said, Hi, Laura, John has passed.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
And what if anything? You responded to that?
Speaker 6 (55:40):
I said, oh my god, what happened? And she said,
we found him in the snow at five am?
Speaker 1 (55:47):
And what if anything did you ask?
Speaker 5 (55:50):
I said, what happened?
Speaker 6 (55:52):
I just recalled, you know, kind of going into a talesman,
asking a bunch of questions. And she mentioned, she said,
I don't know. We were both at the same party.
I didn't go in.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
I went home, right, So Karen's going to spin it
as a party when it was just a little really
like I wouldn't call that a party. I would just
call it a get together, like a stopover really to
(56:27):
a friend's house after the bars closed. But it benefited
an or to call it a party, so that's what
the papers ran it as all. This language is so
important to these cases. Hi, I just love the way
(56:48):
she wait, Laura Sullivan knows Karen, Hi, Laura John's past
don't know. Found him in the snow. Definitely didn't reverse
into him going twenty four miles an hour with my
foot seventy five percent down on the gas pedal. That
wasn't me in reverse in a very odd, strange way
(57:13):
that most people don't get hit by a car. So
that I have evidence, so the evidence will be odd
and not typical of a usual frontal strike. I just
clipped him. Wanted to teach him a lesson. Hi, Laura,
(57:33):
we don't know found him in the snow. I'm the
one who found him. I stole your story, by the way.
I tried to play the John O'Keefe role. I didn't
really succeed in it, but I tried. But it really
you know, I do believe that she There is no
(57:54):
need Again, this is where I'm stuck with this in
this case. Why keep coming back to it? Just there's
no need. Anyone see that, there's no need for her
to call Jen McCabe to wake up Kaylee. All she
had to do was call nine one one. She did
(58:15):
not have to involve half the town in her in
her drama, but it benefited her bringing in all these
characters with real human frailties that we all have and
(58:35):
life issues and et cetera, et cetera. She could point
the finger away from her own actions, her own personality,
her own relationship with John o'keith. That was really the
benefit of it. But I think she had hoped that
she would come out the shining hero we found him,
(59:00):
you know, not me? I right, because she's the last
person to have seen them alive. And what do we
know about crime stories, The last person to see someone alive,
they're usually the one responsible. So I think, see if
there's any the last tail end of this.
Speaker 1 (59:28):
Thanks, I have never heard of this.
Speaker 10 (59:32):
You were not present at the Waterfall Bar and Grill
on January twenty eighth two can I was not.
Speaker 1 (59:46):
You were not present at thirty fourth air of You
Road in campus.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
But I know Karen, and I know her personality, and
I know the relationship. The way she treated John O'Keeffe.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
On January twenty two. Yeah, you'll agree with me that
Michael Proctor, the state police trooper, visited.
Speaker 10 (01:00:07):
You at your home in All the Way in Pembroke,
Massachusetts on February eighth of twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Interview you Yes, well, that sounds like he was doing
a thorough job.
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Anything to just briefly, as far as tuber Proctor coming
to your house, was he alone or who, if anyone else.
Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Was he with?
Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
When he was, he was with another trooper? Okay, do
you recall who that trooper was, Trooper Fanning Nothink for
the on.
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Do you see how all those little details are so
important that stopped sharing?
Speaker 5 (01:00:44):
Hold on?
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
That's say to the story, he didn't come alone. Following up.
I wish they had followed up on the Richie the Plumber.
That would have been great, said Karen. Where are your
text messages to and from Richie the Plumber? They've never
(01:01:08):
been put in the public domain. Who is this Richie?
They didn't visit Richie the Plumber. We haven't heard any
visit by the police of it. Anyway, Thanks Taylor. Yeah,
That's where I'm gonna leave it for tonight. It's just
a review, I hope. Laura Sullivan comes into the civil case.
(01:01:31):
I hope Karen reads behavior her relationship with John O'Keeffe.
It's really key. Neither trial one nor trial two got
it right. I'd like to I'd like I mean, if
once again, I'll say, if Karen Reid were a man
and John O'Keefe were a woman, roles were reversed, you know,
(01:01:53):
in this and a man had run over his police
officer girlfriend after a fight, clipped her and left her
to die in the snow, we'd have all these experts
about DV and coercive control, and all the evidence was
(01:02:15):
the same. And what makes me so sad about listening
to this is that he really didn't reach out for
support through this. Must have been hell being in this
thing for two years. In the beginning, it's great because
they love bomb you, but then you realize you're like
(01:02:38):
a prisoner in this relationship that you can't get out of.
All right, that's what I have for today, Guys, Please
support the channel. I do rely small channel. I do
rely on support for my viewers to to keep producing
(01:03:01):
content and getting the message out there about innocence fraud.
If you'd like to send a donation, venmo buy me
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Hold on one second, please hold I've been meaning to
do this. Marcy Denton, Carol Holderman, Jan Kershaw, m Evans,
(01:03:26):
Diane Brooks, Tammy Shepherd, Aaron Rogers, em Evans Scott. Thank
you very much. Next time we'll do buy me a coffee.
But thank you for the VENMO I appreciate it. Or Patreon,
(01:03:48):
I'm working on a new Patreon episode to be out
very soon tomorrow. I'm off. I will see you Tuesday
at six pm Eastern and have a great night everyone.
Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
I hit my boyfriend with my car.
Speaker 9 (01:04:13):
It wasn't an accident.
Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
But with Lyon.
Speaker 5 (01:04:17):
Lawyers, I'll go far.
Speaker 9 (01:04:20):
Lion lawyers and witness harassment.
Speaker 8 (01:04:26):
All avoid prison.
Speaker 5 (01:04:28):
It was some one I pushed the pain on.
Speaker 9 (01:04:35):
Now hit him hard.
Speaker 7 (01:04:38):
Now the legal.
Speaker 9 (01:04:40):
System my clane in since for a campaign to save.
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
My skin.
Speaker 9 (01:04:56):
Making money truth is my second victim.
Speaker 8 (01:05:01):
Carry carry gingen like John you were Mama. My innocence
Frock campaign is my biggest kid.
Speaker 9 (01:05:38):
I hit my boyfriend with my coat.
Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
It wasn't a second.
Speaker 8 (01:05:53):
Both Flying lawyers, I'll go far. Lion lawyers will win
le's harassment.
Speaker 5 (01:06:02):
I'll avoid prison.
Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
It was snowing.
Speaker 5 (01:06:07):
I pushed the pedal down. Hit him hard.
Speaker 9 (01:06:11):
Now, the legal system of my clown.
Speaker 8 (01:06:17):
Insense fraud campaign to save my skin.
Speaker 9 (01:06:24):
Making money Truth is my second victim.
Speaker 8 (01:06:29):
Carry carrying ginging like John.
Speaker 9 (01:06:34):
Your word, Mamoe.
Speaker 8 (01:06:37):
My innocence frod campaign is my biggest hit. It the
(01:07:06):
public at se
Okay, just to be clear, you didn't do it.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
We know who did it, Steve, we know, and we
know who spearheaded this cover up.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
You all know if John was beaten up and attacked
in that house, who did it?
Speaker 4 (00:13):
We don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
We don't know.
Speaker 5 (00:15):
We don't know, and it's not for us to know.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Somebody other than Karen.
Speaker 6 (00:20):
Somebody other than Karen is responsible for that for the
killing of John.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
You are listening to the ROBERTA.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Glass True Crime Report putting the true back in true
crime from New York City.
Speaker 5 (00:47):
ROBERTA. Glass is now on the record.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Okay, can have anybody hear me? I hope you can
hear me. Hello Tat, Hello Truth and Justice, Hello Texas,
Hello miss Lisa. Sorry I had to cough. Okay, Tater,
(01:37):
I'm glad. I don't know it was telling me my
microphone wasn't disconnected. Okay, Happy Sunday. How is everybody?
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Hey?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Ain't nohala back y'all. So today I want to talk
about I mean, everything is moving towards the civil case
with Karen Reid. So I wanted to talk about a
forgotten testimony at Lisa was forgotten by me. Something we
didn't see in the second trial that I think really
(02:10):
gives us a clue as to why Karen Reid called
This is the question I asked myself, why Karen Reid
had to call Jen McCabe and Carrie Roberts. She initially
called Michael Camerono and Catherine Camerano. Those were her first
choices to bring to get riled up and bring to
the her scene of the crime, and when they weren't available,
(02:38):
she picked Jen McCabe and Carrie Roberts. And I've always
said that I felt that, and I think that this
is still accurate, that she needed to mix it all up,
mix in players, because otherwise she shows she calls nine
(02:58):
to one one herself. She got Jen cave to call nine,
and she recorded Jen McCabe's nine one one call, which
makes of course, I think innocent fraud Watches pointing this
out on X makes her being so offended that she
was recorded without her knowledge by Aiden Carney kind of hypocritical.
(03:26):
Here she is recording strangely calling John o'keef knowing it
won't answer, and having the nine to one one recorded
on her phone. So in a sense, she was one
of the first wire tappers. But I always felt like
there was more to this story as to why she
(03:47):
got the idea that she had to be she had
to prove that she was in a panic and she
had to look for him, And where did she get
this idea that she was somehow going to be you know,
really really just leading people to her scene so that
(04:07):
they could discover Jon O'Keeffe, but also getting to actually
have witnesses that showed that she acts surprised. All that
is definitely part of it. But then I was listening
to the testimony of Laura Sullivan, and the story that
(04:31):
Laura Sullivan tells is awfully similar to what Karen reiedid
on the morning of the twenty nine, twenty twenty two.
Let's get into it. So, just to give you some background,
Laura Sullivan was dating and was pregnant with the child
(04:55):
of Pat Rogers, who was John o'keef's really good friend
on the Force. On one second, let me just share
my screen so I can show you a picture. This
is from Innocent Fraudwatch's excellent and most useful timeline. So
(05:20):
there's pat Rogers on the right, John O'Keefe on the
left there and they all went to Aruba together so
there was no way that Karen Reid hadn't heard this story.
But here's the story that Laura Sullivan told on this stand.
(05:41):
Take a listen.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
I met John in May of twenty thirteen. I met
him at a bar in South Boston with he was
with Pat Rogers at the time. Post meeting John, I
started dating Pat. And my son's father is Pat Rogers.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
And so as.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Far as as John o'keithan and your son's father Pat Robinson,
did you know what did you.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Come to know what they did for a living?
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Yeah? They're both Boston police officers.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
And did you know sort of what the relationship was
beyond co workers? Of yet.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
They were best friends.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
So at some point following that meeting in twenty thirteen,
you begin to date Rogers?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Is that right?
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And what happened?
Speaker 6 (06:49):
So in July of twenty thirteen, I became pregnant and
in nova member of twenty thirteen pack community.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
And okay, yeah, following that, how.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Would you describe sort of relationship with mister okeeper the ball? Okay?
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Hello, So.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
In November of twenty thirteen, I was on a work
trip and I had not had the best conversation with
Pat it was kind of it just.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
Didn't feel right. And I called John.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And little like Karen and John o'keeff, who had been fighting,
So do you.
Speaker 5 (07:59):
Need to go find him? I can't get a hold
of him. He won't answers phone, and.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
So John left his nephew's birthday party and called a
bunch of people on the way, and ultimately Pat was
found in the basement of his house.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
And John was there.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
Immediately following, but he was the one that found people
to go find Pat. Immediately following that, John never really
left my side, you know, as a support system.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And at some point following that you had this Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So Karen had to know that story. So John O'Keefe
was the hero who got other people to find Pat Rogers.
Now Karen, Karen Reid is playing that role, and she's
going to be the big hero. I knew something wasn't right.
I didn't hear from him. I mean, this is almost
(09:08):
an identical story now, and then it has the added
benefit for Karen of mixing it all up, of having
other people there. She was looking for people who would
you know, the Cameranos. It took forever to get Michael
(09:30):
Camerono on the stand. Took to the second trial to
really for him to come out with the fact that
John O'Keeffe was angry at Karen Reid about the plumber
and that you know, Catherine Camerono said, you can't remember
anything Karen Reid told her. It was just a lot
of nonsense. She knew that they that they would that
(09:53):
their whims essentially, sorry, I'm going to be very welcome
to welcome to tell it like it is Sunday. They
protect themselves, put their head down and they're not going
to call Karen read out for anything that she says
that's self incriminating. She knew those were her first picks,
(10:15):
and then she picked Carrie Roberts and Jennifer McCabe. And
because Jennifer McCabe was going to be the strongest witness
against her, and it was we're going to remember everything,
she had to be, of course the villain. But I mean,
how similar is the story. But I mean the reason
(10:44):
I came to it today is because I was really
going to talk about, you know, some of these witnesses
that we haven't seen. I'm just going to put out
an SOS for them. Richie the Mansfield Plumber, if anybody
knows this Richie the Mansfield plumber putting out an SOS,
please get in touch with me Vertic Glass twenty three
(11:06):
at Gmail, Love to talk to you. Did you hear
from Karen Reid on the night of January twenty eighth,
twenty twenty two? Do you put the seats on crooked?
The toilet seats on crooked? Did Karen Reid have a
rusty pipe that delayed her getting to meet John O'Keeffe
(11:27):
that night? Strangely she springs this on John O'Keeffe, who
had put in a chandelier for Karen Reid two weeks
earlier in her home in Mansfield. Was this a way
of making him angry and somehow getting him out to
Mansfield later for her imaginary plumbing issues or maybe they're real?
(11:53):
Is Richie? Does Richie the Mansfield Plumber exist? If anyone
knows him? Talked to him? Knows a plumber named Richie
who works in Mansfield, mass Come talk to me, Love
to hear what you have to say? Why have we
never seen those text messages? And I just thought, you
(12:14):
know that there is a missing witness for the civil
trial and the way that they framed this. I thought
was wrong for this trial was that Karen Ree is
so jealous. I mean that's how it was really reported.
It was like the rub incident. We'll listen to some
(12:36):
more of it, but no one picked out that this
is almost the same. I think Adam Lalley must have
this is the same exact story. How are you guys feeling?
(12:56):
I think she could have been Nelly. I mean he
tells her, you know you're jonesing for a drink, so
go to the bar. I don't know her drinking habits.
She certainly had a full bar at home. But Karen
Read's behavior really has to come in and their relationship,
(13:18):
because if you listen further on in this testimony, you
get such a picture of a coercively controlled or DV
situation we usually don't think of with a cop a man,
you know, a macho man being the victim of but
it happens. And someone wrote on my shorts I did
(13:43):
a short video from my conversation with Brendan Kane where
Brendan Kane was talking about how John O'Keeffe the last
picture of them together John O'Keeffe had to take to
send to Karen to prove to him to prove to her,
excuse me where he was. And also there's text message
(14:09):
of John O'Keeffe sending a picture of himself with his
father to Karen Reid on the twenty eighth again, so
it seemed to be a habit that she demanded photographic
evidence of where John O'Keeffe was as a way to
keep power and control over him. But listen to this,
(14:33):
and Laura Sullivan seems to understand that things are very
wrong in this relationship and asked him to if he
wants to talk about it, and he clams up. It
seems like John O'Keeffe wasn't one to you know, talk
about his problems with other people, you know, at any
(14:56):
great length. But it was cracks in the relationship were
showing back in this trip to Aruba. So let's take
to listen, this is some interesting testimony. Let's take a
listen to it together. Let me see if I can
just speed it up, maybe just like a half of
(15:16):
fraction so that we're not here, you know, all all night.
And I'm sorry that the sound is impossible. If anybody
watched the whole first trial, it's just impossible and near
impossible to fix at you.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Have a conversation to it was.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
It was his birthday, December of twenty thirteen, and we
went to the Playwright, which is where we had we
had all met, and I gave him a card and
I asked him to be the FN's godfather and he
said yes.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
And the relations to your son was.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Yes, very much.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
So he was every birthday, Christmas, he was. He was
always in contact. He was the first person in my
delivery room after I gave birth. He was a constant.
He was a connection to pat and always making sure
that you know, Ben was taken care of in the
sense of being there to tell stories or what have you,
(16:18):
from his right.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But what a benefit to Karen read the first person
on the scene, the one who really I tried to
make so much more sense when she's on this step
screaming I tried to save his life. It was the
only one trying to help. But no one bought that,
not even the free Karen readers by that that she
was the only one trying to save his life. She
(16:41):
was the one she was trying to deflect away from,
you know, her crime, while simultaneously at other moments admitting
to it, mixing it all up putting people in the
fear of state, acting hysterical, getting her of sections so
(17:01):
she didn't have to talk to the police. It was
all about Karen Reed, It was she just doesn't have
it in her. She plays the hero so badly, is
what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
The relationship with Pat and through.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
His relationship with you and your son, become familiar with
your family as well. Yeah, yep. And in regard to
your family, was there some kind of term or how
would they.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Were the godfather?
Speaker 8 (17:32):
He was?
Speaker 5 (17:33):
He was called the godfather to almost everybody.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Now, man, if I can turn your attention back to
that summer of twenty twenty one, you receive a text
of mis stroke.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Keith for that right and so sorry, you do have
to say yes or no?
Speaker 5 (17:46):
Sorry, Yes, after you receive that text, did you reach
out to Yes. I gave him a call because I
was excited. I was immediately excited.
Speaker 6 (17:54):
I gave him a call explained to him that.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's how you are. I mean, that's I mean, it's
a spectrum of so Krrie May saying a lot of
people were saying Jen and carry are to calm. Well,
that's when you're trying to support someone who's hysterical. You
do get try to act calm. It's not helpful to
(18:19):
the firefighters or the first responders, and you're in shock.
Karen Reid wasn't in shock because she knew what she did.
She knew she had to put on a performance of
a lifetime and try to sell this as her as
the great hero, the great rescuing hero. I mean, this
(18:39):
was a role that John O'Keefe played so naturally, So
it just all makes sense that Karen read Why would
Karen Reid call him the patron saying of Canton because
that's a role that she was now trying to emulate
and play in this story. I don't know. To me,
(19:00):
this was like it made so much more sense. It's
just like a missing piece.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
We had a group of rooms we were going with.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
I don't even know the number at that time that had,
you know, signed up to go, but it was a
lot of kids. It was all of our friends and
that they would have a great time.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
And from that, did you give you any sense or
or say anything about who from from or whom?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
He had mentioned that it would be the kids, and he.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Said, Carrie, I got it totally. I totally got it.
I totally got it. I wasn't saying that you were
saying that. I just thought that was an interesting point.
It's like a free care and read talking point. They're
too calm. They must be guilty something. Sorry to interrupt.
People are saying, I don't know. There's one person who's saying,
(19:48):
I'm in a you know, I put up the I'm
interrupting too much, probably am, But I do put up
If people want to watch, I do put up the links.
And the people want to watch without my commentary. Some
of this is commentary, so I do feel the need
to put in some commentary. But I do put in
(20:11):
the links and the description for people who want to
watch it without it. But I catch you, Carrie, Karen
would be joining him as well.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
And at that point, at some point.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
That you knew him Karen, correct, Yes, at that point.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
I had not.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
I knew that they were dating, but I didn't I
had never met Karen tho In in.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Addition to himself, and with mister Keith's reading and correct. Yes,
and if you know, in relation to your son, as
far as his happened, where.
Speaker 6 (20:51):
They uh, they are like three three years apart?
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Yeah, three years A part.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Out when you have that phone conversation with miss Keith
interest does the show as.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Far as going.
Speaker 5 (21:08):
After, you know, asking a couple of questions.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
He I could hear Karen in the background, and he
put Karen on the phone, and that was the first
time I had spoken to her. He basically said, he
just talked to her. So if you can answer her questions,
do you recall what they were? She was interested in
the the room set up, how many people could sleep
in a room, and how the room is set up.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
You have a king sized bedroom.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
And then there's a kitchen area, and then there's a
living room that has a pull out couch, and I
explained that you could.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So Karen Reid had to have her own room. She
couldn't sleep in the bed with Joan. She had to
have her own room in her own space.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
It's a four person occupancy room and you could get
a roll away bed as well.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And following that conversation, when was the next time that
you had any common.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
So during that conversation, Karen mentioned that she needed her
own bathroom and she needed her own space, and that
she wanted two rooms. And so I put them in
contact with a woman that I knew had two rooms
for them to you know, figure that piece out. I
don't handle any of that. I put people in contact
with whoever owns the rooms. I put them in contact
(22:25):
with with the woman who had the two rooms, and
I know that they had, you know, paid her relatively quickly.
I mentioned to John that the rooms. I couldn't promise
that the rooms would be next to each other, and
they weren't. They were on opposite sides of the hotel.
But they've got two rooms.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
And when you say opposite side of the hotel, where
you know sort of where those rooms were relations to
each other.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
And so the the the pool and lobby is in
the center, and then the hotel comes like this and
there are pool walkout rooms on the first floor of
each and Karen and John were on this side and
the kids were on this side, and they both had
walkout rooms.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
And as far as you know about how far away
they work with.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
Children, I would say, I mean steps wise, maybe two hundred.
But I mean the hotel is is it's small enough,
but it was separated by a lobby the front entrance.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
I mean, I really think Karen read they were going
to all say she expected everyone to say, well, you're
not the type of person who would who would do this?
You were you actually, you know, went looking for him.
You're you're a hero. I think she expected or half
hoped that they'd all say, Karen, you're a hero. You're
(23:52):
the one who jumped on his body, lifted up your
shirt and rubbed yourself on him, doing absolutely nothing of
any any substance or help. But thankfully for you, you
you you were here.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
And I.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Don't know, do you think the point was so seriously
in jurim she knew she had killed him. She had
to know. I mean, I just think it's an omission
in the negative. He didn't look mortally wounded. I think
she knew he did. She's like, oh, better cover this up.
I'm not the type. I'm the rescuer hero type. I'm
(24:34):
the patron saying I'm the patron saying of Mansfield the
outside entrance.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Now with regard to you, when when was it?
Speaker 9 (24:47):
So?
Speaker 6 (24:47):
The timeshare right, The timeshare rooms run Friday to Friday,
so we were booked for the thirty first through the seventh.
Josh's birthday is December thirtieth, so we went down as
a family a day early and we had friends who
were already down there since Christmas. John's timeshare room woman
reached out and said, hey, we're leaving early if you
(25:08):
want to arrive early, so he him, Karen and the
kids actually came down on the thirtieth as well. They
were on the flight following us, and then the rest
of the Sixtish people, however am anywhere there, showed up
on the thirty first.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And so from that first day that you arrived there,
as far as when you got there on thirtieth, when
was the first time that you saw John or when
was the first time that you saw anyone?
Speaker 5 (25:32):
From that, it was.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
We were at the pool, So it was not long
after they had landed. He texted me and said we're here,
and then and I jumped out of the pool and
went to the lobby to see him. And then on
the way back from the lobby, I saw somebody banging
on the window on the left hand side of the rooms,
and I didn't know who it was, and then I
saw Kaylee and I was like, oh, well, that must
be Karen.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
And again it was just the first time that m.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Hm, yeah, banging seems to be Karen's style. Banging on
the door I mean, does any remember the reports from
Cayley's testimony said that John walked away from the fight
and went to his bedroom and closed the door and
(26:20):
locked it. And Karen reads like pounding on it a fight.
I saw banging on the door as the first first time,
she sells cared that must be Karen.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yes, and just for purposes as.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Yes, she's right there.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Okay, now after you see the person bang on the window,
what happened?
Speaker 6 (26:52):
She came out, She gave me a big hug, said,
it's nice to meet you. I've heard so much about you.
I recognized you from pictures and.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Uh following along from there? What happened then? As as
far as the Davis.
Speaker 6 (27:05):
So they mentioned it was Josh's birthday. We had already
made plans to go out for dinner. Our friends who
had been there since Christmas, have a seventeen year old
daughter who watched our children, so we could go out
for dinner. I mentioned it to John. I said, you know,
we'll just add you to the reservation. You can join
us for dinner. The kids can stay with Chloe, And
they said absolutely, So we all went out for dinner
(27:26):
that evening to scream Needle.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
And tug. Where is that animation of the hotel?
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Then it's probably about a fifteen ish minu at cab Ride.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
And when you arrived there, and what if anything you
were called about the dinner or.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
How it went.
Speaker 6 (27:42):
So we were sitting outside on the patio. It was Karen, myself,
our friend Laura. Across from Laura was her husband Dave.
Josh was in front of me, and John was in
front of Karen.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
And what if anything specifically recall about dinner or what happened?
Speaker 6 (28:02):
So we the waiter came over, he ordered, he started
taking drink orders. Karen placed her order, I placed mine,
Laura placed hers, Dave placed his, and then Josh ordered
a dirty martini with blue cheese stuffed olives.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I'll know it.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
I don't know where it's going and you can move
to strike if it unless you wanted to see me
and okay me.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So burning back to at the restaurant, the drinks that
order people have with the app and at the end
of the evening, as far as bill, and what if
anything you recall.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
About Karen had paid the bill prior to us receiving.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
It, and what if any reactions that you.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
Were the entire table was kind of taken aback, you know,
said it wasn't necessary I wanted.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Apparently this was a pattern with Karen and Kaylee. She
bought Kaylee very efensive gifts, and you could say she's
very generous, or you could say that it was a
way to control people and manage impressions and make them
feel indebted to her. I mean you could you could
go either way.
Speaker 6 (29:17):
To Venmo or give cash or something along those lines.
And she declined, saying that.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I happened to think it's you know, the latter. But
just knowing Karen's personality, she certainly hasn't been too generous
to the witnesses or to anyone else who's help. Who
helped her out that morning, she she.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
Was honored to be there and wanted to pay for it.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Turn your attention to the following, what if anything you
were called about the next day being that would have been.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Yes, So turn.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Your attention to what if anything you were called about
in specific regards.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
To mister.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
John was very vocal on the thirtieth on how he
just wanted to sit in the pool and watch the
Alabama game.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
And he was a pretty big Alabama fan. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yes, I thought. Brendan Kane told me why he rooted
for Alabama, but I have to ask him again because
of this escapes me.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
And so over the course of that day, what if
any interactions did you have with either sort or if
any interactions did you have.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
I saw him in the pool, I know he was.
He was sitting at the pool bar watching the game
with Josh. I saw the kids. I recall seeing Karen.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
I don't remember if we spoke or not, but it
was mostly in the pool because we were waiting for
the rest of our friends to show up.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Now, amongst the rest of your friends that showed up,
do you have any siblings?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I do, And how many siblings?
Speaker 5 (30:55):
I have two? And I have a younger brother and
a younger sister.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
And with reference to your younger sister.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Marietta, and how much younger than you was there? She's
ten years younger than me.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And what's Marietta Sullivan? Was she coming in on that
day as well?
Speaker 5 (31:10):
She was?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
And you recalled about what time it was that she
arrived or that she came to the first time.
Speaker 6 (31:17):
It's tough to remember, but I want to say everybody
showed up on one of the first or second flights
that came out of Boston, so I'd say she was
there by one pm.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
And if you recall, what if any plans were there
as far as dinner was concerned on that evening the duties.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
So what we tend to do is.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
Book reservations and if people are interested in joining, they
can join us. And that night we had approximately forty
people going to have dinner on the beach at Moomba
Beach around I want to say it was like seven
o'clock we had our reservations for.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
And the mister Okath and the feminist Read joined you
for dinner.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
That they did not know.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I mean thinks that that's just for a moment as
far as miss Read was concerned prior to your ride
won the group, but did you have her phone number?
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Contact? And when was it that.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
John had added her?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
And I and right, But I think that she's been
doing this her whole life is being bringing in other characters,
bring in other people, I mean to cover up her
own behavior and point away from her own behavior, because
I mean, if you look at what's going on with
(32:30):
Aiden Karney and Karen Reid now, so Karen Reid's obviously
trying to distance at herself publicly from Aiden Karney. There's
rumors that there might be some kind of federal or
she's worried. There's rumors that she's worried because Aiden Karney
said she was worried when they took her phones of
(32:51):
what's on her phones. You can listen to the voicemail
on my shorts of her saying, do you know what?
Speaker 4 (32:57):
You know?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know what was on those phones? Being charged with
some kind of federal charges in this for witness harassment, etc.
I don't know. I don't know how that's gonna work
after the fact. But okay, this is why I'm skeptical
of it. But Aidan Karney says she's at least worried
(33:20):
about those charges coming down. So she's gonna save herself
and publicly distance herself so when if this stuff comes,
she's always one step ahead. If this stuff comes out
on her phones, she's already publicly broken with him. She's
(33:40):
publicly broken with him before, you know, always made a
distance between herself and you can see the text messages
or communications from you and Nettie to Aiden Karney saying
don't get mad, I don't shake your hand at the hearing.
But you know, we have to you have to maintain
(34:04):
your objective stance, and Aidan Kearney was lying to his
audience for months that he didn't talk to Karen Reid,
that he had nothing to do with the defense team
instead of being basically a wing of the of Karen
Reid's defense team. It is what he was and still is.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
Chloe to a group text the night that we had
gone out for dinner to make sure that we could
all communicate with Chloe to make sure the kids were okay.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
So we got our phone number in relationship watching kids.
As far as Patrick Kelly and your children and everybody cracks. Now,
if you recall you go out to dinner, I think
the reservation was about seven or so. Do you recall
about what time was that you got.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Back to the hotel.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
I want to say it was around nine thirty ten
o'clock by the time my group got back, I know
there was a couple of different seatings, so we probably
got back around like nine thirty ten o'clock.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
And as far as your group was concerned, your Marietta,
which she within your group to dinner, yes, and beyond
uh sort of your younger sister Marietta what did you
have other sort of media family.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
With you on My mother was with us as well.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
And with regard to you Marietta and your mother, what
if anything was there as far.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
As where were each of them?
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Uh so they had their they had their own room.
I think it was a couple away from us on
the fifth floor.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Is that the top four?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
As far as hotels, yes, Now, once you arrived back
from dinner, where where it.
Speaker 6 (35:28):
Was, we go to the pool area the kids can swim.
We ring in the New Year at the pool bar,
watching it on the on the TVs, and then watching
the fireworks.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Now, when you came back to the hotel and you
went at some point to the pool area, you're just
the Marietta.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You know where she went.
Speaker 6 (35:45):
She actually when we got back from dinner, she went
up to her room with my mom and essentially put
my mom to bed and she didn't want to be
up anymore, but she went to go change as well.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Now, when you came down to the pool area, as
far as mister will keep.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
Them in that area, I saw John I want to
say around ten ten thirty ish, I don't know the
exact time.
Speaker 6 (36:10):
It was definitely before midnight. He was standing behind me
at the pool bar.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
And at some point, at some point does her sister
come out to.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
The pool Yeah, so right before I saw John at
the pool bar, I saw my sister. She came out
and she was visibly upset.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
All right, thank you, So, JERRYS.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
You're about to hear a testimony about certain conduct or
behavior allegedly committed by miss read. Be mindful that the
defendant is not charged with committing any crimes other than
those charge within the indictments.
Speaker 6 (36:50):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
The witnesses testimony may not, and indeed must not, be
considered by you as any evidence that the defendant has
a bad character or as evidence that she has a
propensity to commit the crimes with which she has been charged.
You may not take the defendant's prior acts as a
substitute for proof that the defendant committed the crimes charged here.
But you may consider the act solely on the limited
(37:10):
issue of the state of mind of the defendant and
the nature of her relationship with John O'Keefe, as it
might go to motive or intent. You may not consider
this evidence for any other purpose. Specifically, you may not
use it to conclude that if the defendant committed the
act or apps that she must also have committed the
offenses with which she's charged. You can only use the
evidence for the limited purpose of how it goes to
(37:32):
the defendant's state of mind, the nature of her relationship
with John O'Keeffe, as it may go to motive, and
just for the records. My findings are the same that
I made at sidebar previously. Go ahead, mister Lelia.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Thanks now with regard to you, at some points, if
it comes out to the Schoolaria.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Where you were, is that right correct? And you know
where I do not know? And when your sister comes
out Toolia.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
She said, yeah, that that's sustained. I thought you were
doing something else.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
When your sister comes out through the pool, how would
you describe her mean? Or when she.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
No, she was frustrated.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
And at some point did you have a conversation without
with our conversation. At some point did you have a
conversation with her about something that had just done. Yes, now,
following that conversation with your system, at some point went
to that Miserel Keith come back.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
Out to after I spoke with her. Yes, he came
out to the pool area.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
And you know about how long a period of time.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
It was between the time that your sister came out
to the pool era and Mi Israel Keith came out.
Speaker 6 (38:39):
I mean, I would say approximately twenty minutes, but I
don't I don't really know exact timing.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Now, when mister Keith came back out, did you have
any conversations? I didn't exactly describe that conversation.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
All right?
Speaker 4 (38:51):
Is this the instruction that you were talking about instead
of the other one? All right, so we'll sure as
I have another instruction for you. So you're about to
hear evidence of statements made by John O'Keefe.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Is that accurate, now.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Mister Lelley, all right, these statements are being admitted only
for a limited purpose of establishing John O'Keeffe's state of mind.
You're not to consider this test.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I mean, these instructions are so ridiculous. Someone left a
message saying, well, actually, I think I started telling this
story in the short saying, well, talking about the picture
that her bad behavior, that you could be an awful person.
(39:33):
And I hear this a lot, but it doesn't make
your a killer. True, But don't you think an awful
person is more likely to kill? But you're not allowed
to make this inference take any of these prior bad
acts into consideration.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Cimonious proof that the defendant has a bad character.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I mean, it's not proof that they did it. I
get that you're not allowed to use it as a proof,
but to only uses it to John O'Keeffe's state of mind.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
And to not look at the whole story as a
whole or propensity to commit crimes. The testimony of witnesses
recounting conversations with mister O'Keeffe can only be used as
they go to the defendant's motive or intent on January
twenty eighth or twenty ninth, and only if you find
that the defendant was aware of mister O'Keeffe's state of
mind at the time of the crime and would be
(40:24):
likely to respond to it. There need not be direct
evidence that the defendant learned of mister o'keeff's state of mind,
so long as you reasonably can infer from the evidence
that she did learn of it.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
Okay, yes, yep.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
If I could take you back and miss out and
you have a conversation with him so.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Kelly writes that the defense paid an expert and the
judge allowed it. Well, expert witnesses for the defense, and
sometimes the Commonwealth can be paid. The payment is sint
the issue, it's the lying about the payment. So instead
(41:04):
they presented those witnesses as that they were paid for
by the Feds, that they were totally impartial, that the
Commonwealth could have used them. That's the issue, not that
they were paid. It's that they lied about being paid
and presented them to the jury as totally impartial witnesses.
I mean that could have totally acquitted Karen Reid. You know,
(41:28):
had the jury known the real story, we might have
got a conviction first time round. I mean, there was
so much lying by the defense, lying, criminal behavior, not
handing over discovery, not playing by the rules, and this
(41:49):
judge Kenoni just alloweder courtroom to become a kangaroo court.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
What that conversation was.
Speaker 6 (42:02):
I turned around and I was pretty shocked to see him.
Speaker 5 (42:05):
I said, what's going on? And he said nothing. I said,
did and Karen have words? And he said, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (42:13):
And I said, well, that's not what Edis said. And
I asked him if everything was okay, And at that time,
his his phone was lighting up and it was it
looked like call texts, call the text and it said
Karen on his phone?
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Do you make that operation worth it?
Speaker 6 (42:32):
I asked him if he needed to take it, and
he said, yes, she's crazy.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
I got to take care of this.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Was that the last time that you saw it? Is
following me.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
So here's Karen Ree doing very much what she did
all of the day of the twenty eighth call text, call, text,
seems like Karen and stop calling busy, but she has
no respect for She had no respect for John O'Keefe's boundaries.
(43:12):
You know, does that kind of behavior abusers? That's abusive behavior,
not respecting someone's boundaries, calling, texting, calling, texting.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
Yeah, I did not. I saw the children, but we
didn't see them that day.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
No attention to the following day.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
What was sort of the plan as far.
Speaker 6 (43:38):
As what was going on that our hotel has a
private island. The hotel we stay out has a private island,
and we rented all eight of the cabanas between the
sixty of us that were there. And when the caban
has went on sale, I had reached out to John
and asked him if he wanted me to get him one,
and he said sure, So I booked one for him
and he paid me, uh for that cabana.
Speaker 5 (44:01):
So we all went out that morning.
Speaker 6 (44:04):
And it was probably around you know, ten o'clock in
the morning, and they weren't there yet, and so I
sent him a text and I said, you know, are
you coming or do you want me to sell this cabana?
Because there was other you know, couples there. At least
you could have made you know, the money back. And
he asked me who was there and I said, to everybody,
and I named off I think I named off a
couple names. I'm not really sure, but I said, everybody's here.
(44:26):
And when you said that, he said, well, apparently I
made out with your sister the other night.
Speaker 5 (44:34):
According to Karen, now, is that first.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Time that you had heard that?
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Yes, fair s, whatever you had heard from your sisters was.
Speaker 5 (44:43):
Not that ill the correct?
Speaker 1 (44:47):
And what was your reaction when.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Ill?
Speaker 5 (44:52):
I was shocked.
Speaker 6 (44:53):
I immediately found my sister and said, did you make
out with John?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Assisted you went to talk to your sister? Who was
it that your sister was with when you went to
talk to.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
I'm not I don't recall who was who was standing
near her, maybe my mom.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
I don't know as far as your sister was concerned
at that time. Was she dating someone?
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
And the person that she was dating was that person
on the trip? He was yes, And was that person
that she was dating it was on the well where
they act that man is on that data.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
They were yes.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Now, as far as.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
You have some conversation in regards to your sister and
then at some point do you go back and have
her the.
Speaker 6 (45:29):
Conversation with Yeah, I said, I I text him back.
Speaker 5 (45:33):
I said, I just talked to Da. She said absolutely not.
That did not happen.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Let's sustained. I'll strike that.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Now at some point after that exchange, Uh, did Missie
Keith and miss Reid and were the kids.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Come out through the command?
Speaker 5 (45:47):
They did? Yes?
Speaker 3 (45:48):
And at any point how would you describe sort of
how misteril Keith and or miss Reid was acting.
Speaker 6 (45:54):
When they came out to the exvand but Karen immediately
went in the water. I just recall her being like
loading in the ocean for a good junk of the day.
John was hopping around from the different commands, talking to people.
One of my favorite pictures of him is with my
son from that day.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
You have any conversation with on he came out to
the commander.
Speaker 6 (46:17):
No, we kind of just kept it light. We didn't
we didn't really talk about anything that had happened. I
was just kind of trying to stay out of it
for now and.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Following a sort of the commanded situation or the command
of day.
Speaker 6 (46:30):
What happened, I suppose that day. I think I saw
John one other time. I saw him in the pool.
It was the one time that him and I were alone.
He didn't seem like he was himself oh low. He
seemed distant, and I asked him if he was okay,
and he kind of just shrugged it off, and I said,
(46:52):
you know, are you happy? And he kind of, you know,
just rolled his eyes and shrugged it off. So well,
you know, something along the lines of what your life
is too short to not be happy. And he goes, well,
you know, Laura, it is what it is. I did
ask him if he wanted to talk about it. I said,
you want to talk about it?
Speaker 5 (47:09):
And he's like, not really.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
I hate that it is what it is. What does
that mean? What does that mean? It is what it is?
Get out of it. It's just like a way saying,
you know, shutting down and not talking about it. It
is what it is. She's crazy. She's not crazy, she's
she's saying she just doesn't have doesn't have any compassion
(47:43):
for anyone but herself. She's not made like that psychopath.
She's cunning, calculating, liar. And I don't know how John O'Keefe,
(48:09):
as a police officer usually really smart it sessing out lies,
dealt with Karen Reid. Probably they fought a lot over it.
That's probably how that he dealt with its.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Change in the whole area. When was the next time
that you saw.
Speaker 5 (48:35):
I had spoken to him.
Speaker 6 (48:38):
We all went on a jolly pirate. We had all
bought tickets in advance, so we had basically rented the
whole boat for everybody to go.
Speaker 5 (48:47):
We had bought four.
Speaker 6 (48:48):
Tickets, and we had gotten a bus from our hotel,
and he didn't show up for the bus and wasn't
answering my calls or my texts.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
And then we finally.
Speaker 6 (48:57):
Got down to where the boat was a boat was
about to leave, and he messaged me he's like not
going to make it kids luck late, and so I
didn't think anything of it.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
And after that I saw him.
Speaker 6 (49:08):
And Karen the night before they left, and they ended
up leaving a day or two early so that the
kids could get back to school.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
And when you saw them, where was that in relationship?
Speaker 5 (49:19):
Right outside the hotel is a is a marketplace that
has a bunch of restaurants in arcade.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
Yes, she was in jail, Scilla and that's and her
bail hearing was when we heard Yanette say that she
has a brain tumor and no colon and a host
of other ailments that we've never heard about. Again. She
also told Brian Higgins that she had colon cancer and
(49:48):
ten operations for it, which is you know, my father
tied to that disease and he didn't have ten operations,
So I mean, you know, she seems to use imaginary
illnesses to manipulate and have power and control over people
(50:12):
and pull attention.
Speaker 6 (50:14):
Was sitting at the five o'clock somewhere bar that looks
into the arcade with my best friend Val and my
friends David, Laura and Karen, and John.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Walked up, What if any conversations did you have.
Speaker 6 (50:27):
With Karen grabbed me and she said, hey, I'm sorry,
I thought I saw something that I didn't and I
would like to pay for some of your sister's room
and how did you respond to it? I said, it's
absolutely not necessary.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
She didn't think she saw it. She just knew that
she could keep power and control over John by keeping
him on the defensive. How do you think you saw something?
She's this was just her line. And when she was
going off with Brian Higgins and already checked out of
(51:06):
the relationship, I believe, and moving on, she was writing
John o'keef like, just tell me if you're not into
it anymore, if you've checked out, you know, putting it
on him. He's like, I'm just not into us fighting
all the time. Like I'm not as quick to be
lovey dovey. This is as you are. I'm not getting
(51:30):
it word for word, but you get the idea that
lovey dovey was the word he used. I'm not as
quick to be lovey dovey after a fight as you are.
And then Karina Kulla Keith is strangely testified that at
the bar that night they were lovey dovey, something that
no one else said. So I think Karen Reid showed
(51:52):
Karina Kuala Keith. This is her text messages to and
from John that night. She is a real snake in
the graund us that Kreina Coal of Keith is.
Speaker 5 (52:04):
Just an apology will do?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
And did she persist in wanting to pay for the room?
Speaker 6 (52:10):
She did, and she just said, I I will apologize,
but I something along the lines of, you know, I
want to pay for some of her room. Can I
just have her room number? I don't remember if I
gave her the remember or not, I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
And with regard to that trip, when was it, When
was the next time? Well, when was the last time
that you saw So.
Speaker 6 (52:32):
The day that they were leaving, I saw him by
the pool. He came up, he gave me a big hug.
He said, I love you. This was a great trip,
thank you so much. And I said, well, you're definitely
in again for next year and he said absolutely. And
that was the last time I physically saw him.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
And so that conversation just turned back for a moment.
As far as with regards you know what day that
would have been, as far as in relations to when
leaving early January, I.
Speaker 5 (52:59):
Want to say it was a fit h I want
to say it was January fifth.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
After after you have a conversation.
Speaker 6 (53:11):
I talked to him via text a couple of times
about a couple of different things, but one of them was,
as I mentioned, we start planning a year in advance,
and I said, rooms are coming available, are you in?
And he said, let me let me recover from this
trip first.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
It's so telling about John that even with all the
issues that Karen caused, that he wanted everyone to feel
good and say this was a great trip and make
them feel good. And that's a that's someone who's really
sensitive to other people's feelings. Now, and then he says,
let me recover from this trip. So he's saying it
(53:53):
this wasn'n't a great trip for him, he has it
needs time to recover from it. But after but when
he he knew that she had put it together in
some ways, he didn't want her to feel responsible for
the havoc that Karen Reid caused on that trip. I
(54:17):
find this testimony really sad and really touching. I don't
know about anyone else.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Now, man, if I could turn your attention to Saturday,
January twenty nine, call that day, I do. And at
some point warning.
Speaker 5 (54:37):
During that day I did. I received a call from.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
I'll hear that she received a from.
Speaker 5 (54:45):
I received a call from.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
My aunt, and what did you learn from.
Speaker 5 (54:50):
That? John O'Keefe had passed away?
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Okay, after you hung up the phone with Ron's what
did you do with that?
Speaker 6 (55:01):
I called him, I called anybody's number that I had
associated with the family.
Speaker 5 (55:07):
I ended up calling Kaylee. I texted Kaylee. I texted Karen, and.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Without in regard to what I said that Kaylee responded.
Speaker 5 (55:17):
To she did and at some point.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
She did a phone call or text.
Speaker 5 (55:25):
It was a text later that afternoon.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
And you recall what she said in a text.
Speaker 5 (55:34):
She said, Hi, Laura, John has passed.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
And what if anything? You responded to that?
Speaker 6 (55:40):
I said, oh my god, what happened? And she said,
we found him in the snow at five am?
Speaker 1 (55:47):
And what if anything did you ask?
Speaker 5 (55:50):
I said, what happened?
Speaker 6 (55:52):
I just recalled, you know, kind of going into a talesman,
asking a bunch of questions. And she mentioned, she said,
I don't know. We were both at the same party.
I didn't go in.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
I went home, right, So Karen's going to spin it
as a party when it was just a little really
like I wouldn't call that a party. I would just
call it a get together, like a stopover really to
(56:27):
a friend's house after the bars closed. But it benefited
an or to call it a party, so that's what
the papers ran it as all. This language is so
important to these cases. Hi, I just love the way
(56:48):
she wait, Laura Sullivan knows Karen, Hi, Laura John's past
don't know. Found him in the snow. Definitely didn't reverse
into him going twenty four miles an hour with my
foot seventy five percent down on the gas pedal. That
wasn't me in reverse in a very odd, strange way
(57:13):
that most people don't get hit by a car. So
that I have evidence, so the evidence will be odd
and not typical of a usual frontal strike. I just
clipped him. Wanted to teach him a lesson. Hi, Laura,
(57:33):
we don't know found him in the snow. I'm the
one who found him. I stole your story, by the way.
I tried to play the John O'Keefe role. I didn't
really succeed in it, but I tried. But it really
you know, I do believe that she There is no
(57:54):
need Again, this is where I'm stuck with this in
this case. Why keep coming back to it? Just there's
no need. Anyone see that, there's no need for her
to call Jen McCabe to wake up Kaylee. All she
had to do was call nine one one. She did
(58:15):
not have to involve half the town in her in
her drama, but it benefited her bringing in all these
characters with real human frailties that we all have and
(58:35):
life issues and et cetera, et cetera. She could point
the finger away from her own actions, her own personality,
her own relationship with John o'keith. That was really the
benefit of it. But I think she had hoped that
she would come out the shining hero we found him,
(59:00):
you know, not me? I right, because she's the last
person to have seen them alive. And what do we
know about crime stories, The last person to see someone alive,
they're usually the one responsible. So I think, see if
there's any the last tail end of this.
Speaker 1 (59:28):
Thanks, I have never heard of this.
Speaker 10 (59:32):
You were not present at the Waterfall Bar and Grill
on January twenty eighth two can I was not.
Speaker 1 (59:46):
You were not present at thirty fourth air of You
Road in campus.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
But I know Karen, and I know her personality, and
I know the relationship. The way she treated John O'Keeffe.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
On January twenty two. Yeah, you'll agree with me that
Michael Proctor, the state police trooper, visited.
Speaker 10 (01:00:07):
You at your home in All the Way in Pembroke,
Massachusetts on February eighth of twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Interview you Yes, well, that sounds like he was doing
a thorough job.
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Anything to just briefly, as far as tuber Proctor coming
to your house, was he alone or who, if anyone else.
Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Was he with?
Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
When he was, he was with another trooper? Okay, do
you recall who that trooper was, Trooper Fanning Nothink for
the on.
Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Do you see how all those little details are so
important that stopped sharing?
Speaker 5 (01:00:44):
Hold on?
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
That's say to the story, he didn't come alone. Following up.
I wish they had followed up on the Richie the Plumber.
That would have been great, said Karen. Where are your
text messages to and from Richie the Plumber? They've never
(01:01:08):
been put in the public domain. Who is this Richie?
They didn't visit Richie the Plumber. We haven't heard any
visit by the police of it. Anyway, Thanks Taylor. Yeah,
That's where I'm gonna leave it for tonight. It's just
a review, I hope. Laura Sullivan comes into the civil case.
(01:01:31):
I hope Karen reads behavior her relationship with John O'Keeffe.
It's really key. Neither trial one nor trial two got
it right. I'd like to I'd like I mean, if
once again, I'll say, if Karen Reid were a man
and John O'Keefe were a woman, roles were reversed, you know,
(01:01:53):
in this and a man had run over his police
officer girlfriend after a fight, clipped her and left her
to die in the snow, we'd have all these experts
about DV and coercive control, and all the evidence was
(01:02:15):
the same. And what makes me so sad about listening
to this is that he really didn't reach out for
support through this. Must have been hell being in this
thing for two years. In the beginning, it's great because
they love bomb you, but then you realize you're like
(01:02:38):
a prisoner in this relationship that you can't get out of.
All right, that's what I have for today, Guys, Please
support the channel. I do rely small channel. I do
rely on support for my viewers to to keep producing
(01:03:01):
content and getting the message out there about innocence fraud.
If you'd like to send a donation, venmo buy me
a coffee. Great ways, Oh wait, I have some. Thank you,
Hold on one second, please hold I've been meaning to
do this. Marcy Denton, Carol Holderman, Jan Kershaw, m Evans,
(01:03:26):
Diane Brooks, Tammy Shepherd, Aaron Rogers, em Evans Scott. Thank
you very much. Next time we'll do buy me a coffee.
But thank you for the VENMO I appreciate it. Or Patreon,
(01:03:48):
I'm working on a new Patreon episode to be out
very soon tomorrow. I'm off. I will see you Tuesday
at six pm Eastern and have a great night everyone.
Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
I hit my boyfriend with my car.
Speaker 9 (01:04:13):
It wasn't an accident.
Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
But with Lyon.
Speaker 5 (01:04:17):
Lawyers, I'll go far.
Speaker 9 (01:04:20):
Lion lawyers and witness harassment.
Speaker 8 (01:04:26):
All avoid prison.
Speaker 5 (01:04:28):
It was some one I pushed the pain on.
Speaker 9 (01:04:35):
Now hit him hard.
Speaker 7 (01:04:38):
Now the legal.
Speaker 9 (01:04:40):
System my clane in since for a campaign to save.
Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
My skin.
Speaker 9 (01:04:56):
Making money truth is my second victim.
Speaker 8 (01:05:01):
Carry carry gingen like John you were Mama. My innocence
Frock campaign is my biggest kid.
Speaker 9 (01:05:38):
I hit my boyfriend with my coat.
Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
It wasn't a second.
Speaker 8 (01:05:53):
Both Flying lawyers, I'll go far. Lion lawyers will win
le's harassment.
Speaker 5 (01:06:02):
I'll avoid prison.
Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
It was snowing.
Speaker 5 (01:06:07):
I pushed the pedal down. Hit him hard.
Speaker 9 (01:06:11):
Now, the legal system of my clown.
Speaker 8 (01:06:17):
Insense fraud campaign to save my skin.
Speaker 9 (01:06:24):
Making money Truth is my second victim.
Speaker 8 (01:06:29):
Carry carrying ginging like John.
Speaker 9 (01:06:34):
Your word, Mamoe.
Speaker 8 (01:06:37):
My innocence frod campaign is my biggest hit. It the
(01:07:06):
public at se
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