Karen Read Civil Trial: Victim's Family Adds New Lawyer. Is it a Mistake?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, just to be clear, you didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
We know who did it, Steve, we know, and we
know who spearheaded this cover up.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
You all know if John was beaten up and attacked
in that house.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Who did it?

Speaker 4 (00:12):
We don't know.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
We don't know.

Speaker 5 (00:15):
We don't know, and it's not for us to know.
Somebody other than Karen, somebody other than Karen is responsible
for that, for the killing of John.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
You are listening to the ROBERTA.

Speaker 6 (00:35):
Glass True Crime Report putting the true back in true
crime from New York City. ROBERTA. Glass is now on
the record.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh okay, here we go, Happy Saturday, everybody. Should we
do a roll call, a road call. I'm going to
bring that back. Roll call. Betty Clark, Ruth Lang here
are here, Dark Side Truth and Justice, Scales of Justice. Hello, Hello, Hello,

(01:35):
So we got news that the o'key family. So you know,
now we're talking about Karen Reid and the civil trial.
So there's been a criminal trial. There's been two criminal trials.
And I'm going to shout this out to the free
Karen Reads, the Free Karen Read, the Karen Reid supporters.

(01:58):
There's been two criminal trials. Okay, the first criminal trial.
We got a hung jury. That's like a draw. That's
not a win. All the free Karen readers two juries
acquitted her. No, that's not an acquittal. It's a draw.

(02:18):
No one wins, No one wins in a draw. Okay,
it's it's a you have to start all over again.
So then we had a second criminal trial in the
Karen Reid case. And in that case, Judge Canoni led
an entire huge mass of Karen Reid supporters surround the

(02:41):
courthouse as they were deliberating, and the verdict cave which
acquitted her of all the serious charges that I mean,
when you listen to the jurors, you can just hear
you can hear the crowd come in to the to
the actual court room. So I bring that up because

(03:03):
it has a lot to do with what I'm going
to talk today and my reservations about bb Fell being
added to Karen Reid's civil trial. So now we have
a civil trial. So while Karen Reid was trying the

(03:23):
criminal charges, her victim. So if you don't know, Karen
Reid was accused of running over her police officer boyfriend
he had been trying to leave her. John O'Keefe is
a police officer Jesus, and she is accused of leaving

(03:51):
him on a lawn to die in Massage, the second
worst storm that Massachusetts has ever scene. So that will
that will give you just a little bit of background.
But the O'Keefe family, which included John O'Keefe, his sister Kristen,

(04:14):
died of a brain tumor and he he took parental
duties over for his sister because his sister's husband after
she died, died three months later of a heart attack.
So the so there were two she had. She they

(04:37):
orphaned two children, Klee and Patrick. And in that the
o'kee family, including Klee, are suing for wrongful death. So
this is a civil trial very much like O. J.
Simpson where the Goldman family sued for wrongful death. So

(05:03):
in this case, Karen reads, freedom isn't on the line.
The way our civil courts work is money's on the line,
and the bar of the bar of evidence is much lower.
So it just has to be more likely so than not.
And we saw in the first hearing for this case.

(05:29):
Let me pull that up. Hold on. I didn't think
I was going to pull it up, but now I
think I really should pull it up, because it really
gives you such a view of what it looked like
when Karen Reid appeared in court with seven lawyers on
her team, and many of these lawyers are volunteering. This

(05:53):
is money that you just This is advertising that you
just can't buy for your legal services because there's so
many eyes on this case, and so many fanatic eyes,
so many people who will not only recognize that you're
representing Karen Reid, but will love you for it. You know,

(06:16):
Karen Reid is like so many of these killers and
q's killers and convicted killers have a cult of personality
around them. So hold on one second. Let me just
get to the I know what exactly what part I'm
looking for is right at the beginning. So I think

(06:45):
I called her lawyer Siegelman. I just like to make
a correction. It's Selikson. I think I actually we'll hear it.
Hold on, here's the lawyers. Here's their lawyers, Damon Sellipson.
What is it now? I'm forgetting it as I'm as
I'm pulling this up. Okay, hold on, So here's like

(07:07):
the look that we got. The o'kee family has two
lawyers representing them, and Karen Reid has seven count them,
seven lawyers representing her, including Hollywood, Alan Jackson, the King,
lying lawyer himself, mister fraudster. My opinion. Here, here we go,

(07:34):
all before the quarters.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
Twenty fourty three CB six ninety two. This is the
case of Paul o'keys and Ali eversus C and C Hospitality, LCDBA,
c N, McCarthy's at Eliot cases, Qualpa status and virule
twelve motions. Council, Please introduce yourself CORECT a Plaintiff's Council
and if you say the party you represent us both.

Speaker 7 (07:53):
Good afternoon, your honor Attorney Mark dillon On, behalf.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Of the plaintiffs.

Speaker 5 (07:57):
Good afternoon, your honor Dan buck On, behalf of the plaintiffs.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Thank you. So civil trial, there's no prosecutor prosecutor. This
is just you have the plaintiffs and the defendants. Karen
Reid is a defendant, as we found out in this hearing.
She wants to be both. She wants to make a
case where she's both a plaintiff and a defendant. So
she wants to marry in a bunch of cases where

(08:20):
she sues a host of other people just to confuse
the issue and deflect attention away from herself. So we
have two lawyers, not flashy, not in Hollywood suits for
those listening on podcasts. One bald lawyer with glasses another
both you know, middle age too, middle aged lawyers, nothing

(08:46):
flashy about them, representing the Okey family. All this is
going to come into my worry about adding bb Fell
into this mix. Okay, this is I'm just gonna I
don't mean to be a uh, I'm not being defeatist.

(09:06):
I just want to raise these issues in an effort
to like call these issues up and hope that someone
will hear on the O'Keefe, give me the o'kee family
or someone who knows the o'key family, and just make
them aware that this just reminds me so much of

(09:26):
some of the things that we're done in the criminal trial.
I'll talk about it, Thine, Good afternoon.

Speaker 8 (09:33):
You're Damon seles On behalf of the Chinant Karen Reid.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yes, Selson Damon Selekson, the South African bald lawyer. So
that's one can you can me do? Account here?

Speaker 8 (09:48):
Charles Waters for defendine in your owner Alan Jackson.

Speaker 9 (09:53):
Behalf of this read.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Did someone say Alan Jackson's name, I would say Alan Jackson.
It's like, does anyone else have the Alan Jackson song
going on in their in their head?

Speaker 1 (10:09):
I do?

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Oh darn it, I took it down. I think I
I think after the criminal trial. I I. Oh, no,
I didn't remove it from my ass. That's hold them
one second. She just played like a minute of it.
If I have it, see, I'll do it in a minute.

(10:35):
Oh darn it? Why did I take that down? All right?
Never mind, never mind, never mind, all right, back to this,
back to this. How about are we on two or
three or four? Four lawyers?

Speaker 10 (10:56):
Aaron Rosenberg also on behalf in the three Goodness, good afternoon.

Speaker 9 (11:00):
You're on a William.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Christopher Jordan Karen read.

Speaker 11 (11:10):
Your universality.

Speaker 12 (11:19):
Okay, I'm sorry, you say the waterfall.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
Happen.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Okay, so I'm not including that. Those are separate lawyers.
They're defending the waterfall bar and grill, which has been
brought in for over serving Karen Reid. Karen Reid was
convicted of driving drunk.

Speaker 11 (11:54):
That's all the counselors after the folks and welcome maybe
went to the the event.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
So that's what it looked like. You know, and so
we always think of like negatives, like, well, Karen Reid
has this huge legal team, but you can't have to
remember that they're going in front of a jury. And
there's a disadvantage of having a huge legal team with
Hollywood Alan Jackson in that you know you're clearly the uh,

(12:27):
clearly the You're not the underdog, right, so you have
an advantage being the underdog having two lawyers. You have
to look like, you know, I'm not being I'm not
here for my I'm here to represent the o'keei family
do the right thing who've been victimized in this. Not

(12:50):
like I'm coming in for the money. I'm not coming
in to increase my career, to prove my career, to
get my face on TV, all those things that drors
could consider or could develop a bias one way or
the other. The positive side of having Bbfell on the
team is she's very experienced. But let me I've learned

(13:13):
more about Bbfell, but this is also she's very experienced
in these kind of in this kind of litigation. She's
been practicing since two thousand and four. But she's from
San Diego. Let me see if I can switch to

(13:34):
the interview with bb where she talks a little bit
about herself. Yeah, this one is this is such a
funny podcast. These called the she said what show she

(13:55):
was on. I've watched more things with BB fell and
listened to more podcast with bb fel in the past.
So here she's asked what her secret is to looking
so young, She's said, kind of a Glamazon super lawyer.
So you're bringing in this like Glamazon super lawyer into it,

(14:20):
you kind of lose a little bit of the underdog element.
And she may have a lot of experience in the courtroom,
but this is an unique I don't know if it's unique.
There may have Apparently in Chicago they do it all
the time. They have free trial innocence fraud campaigns. But

(14:42):
I don't know about San Diego how much she has
fought an innocence fraud campaign. So it's not that you're
just fighting this in court. If you go naively into
this thinking that the only thing you have to do
is when this by your arguments in court, you're fighting
the court of public opinion. You're fighting you have to

(15:06):
find a jury that hasn't been touched by this campaign,
and you have to know that what innocence fraud is
is really what you're fighting is organized crime, and they
bring that crime into the courtroom and there's all sorts
of dirty tricks that you have to be prepared for.
Is she ready for this? Is she knowledgeable about this movement?

(15:29):
Does she? Is she naively? And is the O'Keefe other
lawyers naively going into this non understanding the lessons from
the criminal trial. It wasn't that Hank Brennan didn't make
good arguments, or it's that the jury was touched by
this innocence fraud campaign. The four men was looking to

(15:52):
make deals and make money, get an agent. Everybody wants
a bit of that innocence fraud. This is a subject
that is my interest that I know a lot about.
If bb Fell wants to talk to me, if Mark
Diller wants to talk to me, any of the Oki
family lawyers want to talk to me, I'm more than

(16:15):
happy to share my knowledge about this. But to go
into this and think, well, we just need a more
experienced lawyer. Hank Brennan taught law. Wasn't that the lacked experience.
It's just like I feel like we're seeing another Hank
Brennan again like another really experienced lawyer coming into this,
who's really polished, he really knows the law. Who's going

(16:37):
to just think that that is going to naively pick
a jury or naively think that the jurors aren't going
to be touched by this innocent fraud and not be
ready to fight the fraud itself in court. I was
really happy to hear Mark Diller talk about Turtle Boy

(16:57):
talk about He called it a propaganda, can pain whatever
you want to call it, innocent throughout campaign, propaganda campaign,
those were all he brought that up in court as
an argument. You have to fight it head on. You
can't shy away from it and think, well, I'm just
going to argue the facts of the case. I don't

(17:18):
think it's going to work in this case. The positive
thing is Karenry. If she takes the stand and she
takes the fifth, the jurors can can make a can
see that as a admission of guilt, so they she's

(17:40):
got to talk. She can't say that she's taking the
fifth because even if I don't even know if she
could take the fifth really, because she's already been criminally prosecuted,
but maybe around issues of she never she doesn't get
any charges around turtle boy. Those questions maybe, but the
majority of I don't know if even the fifth would
be applicable. But okay, So here's Phoebe Fell talking about

(18:06):
her beauty secrets and herself. Take a listen, Oh young.

Speaker 13 (18:12):
You look so young. I mean, tell us what night
creams you're using, your what you're eating?

Speaker 1 (18:17):
You know, here's what it is, TGI, Thank goodness, I'm Filipino.
I owe it all to my mother.

Speaker 7 (18:23):
Jeans.

Speaker 13 (18:23):
It has to go with jeans.

Speaker 11 (18:26):
So lucky.

Speaker 13 (18:27):
So how many years have you been practicing law?

Speaker 1 (18:30):
I've been practicing since two thousand and four, so going
on reaching touching twenty years almost.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's incredible. And Biebe, why did you want to be
a lawyer?

Speaker 1 (18:42):
So I have wanted to be a lawyer since I
was four years old, and you know, I've put some
thought into that, like what does a four year old
know about the practice of law? Well, my dad was
a lawyer, I had uncles who were lawyers, and my
grandfather was a lawyer. But really, what it was that
I saw my dad get up in the morning with

(19:02):
the spring and his step go to work, come home
and be excited about what he did. I mean, I
knew he was passionate about whatever lawyers did. He was
passionate about it, and he was well respected in the community,
and so it was his energy that really drew me
to the practice.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
That's incredible.

Speaker 13 (19:19):
So do you kind of persuade your daughters to be
lawyers too?

Speaker 1 (19:25):
I actually don't. So I love what I do. I mean,
I'm one of those people who's going to practice until
someone has to pull me out of the courtroom drooling
and say, bbe it's time.

Speaker 13 (19:37):
I love what I do. Genie knows what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
You and me together for sure?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Isn't this isn't this podcast like almost like a Saturday
Night Live skit. It's like they took every bit of
advice about starting a podcast, like have a background, have
some decoration. They have like for I was listening on
on actually on my podcast. They have a pink logo,

(20:08):
which she said, what like? So it's a visual like
in a speech bubble. The set is really loud. They
have a little mini burken bag on the table. They
have sure microphones. They've taken every little piece of advice
on how to make a hit podcast. What viewers like

(20:32):
to look at it's just really funny, very kind of
over the top reactions to the guess answers, you know,
just kind of kind of wild.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
I think it's one of those professions that you have
to have a heart for it. I see people who
love the law and never want to leave and are
past and great at what they do. And then you
see the opposite end of the spectrum, people who got
into the law for the wrong reasons or you know,
it wasn't what they thought it would be, and it's
a slog. It's a lot of stress, a lot of pressure.

(21:12):
It does pull you away from your family.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
She's right, there's like a high rate of ending it all,
lawyers ending it all, of getting into substances of yeah,
they have a lot of problems mental health crisis. Is
a lot of people started and realize they hate it
and quits just the it's I think it certainly has

(21:41):
a reputation for being a profession with the most unhappy
people in it. I'll never forget. I think I've told
this story before, but I'll tell it again. When I
was a little girl, like my young teens, I was
in England and went out to dinner with my family
and the waitress said, it was at a hotel, you

(22:04):
know when like I think they believe that this place
was a huge place. But they also had a hotel upstairs,
so there had a law. The waitress said, oh, the law.
We just had a law conference here. We've never sent
back so many plates of food for just these like

(22:25):
unhappy people. The food's too cold, it's too hot, it's
too I know my rightsund my dinner. So I mean,
you certainly have a a reputation for being difficult. Lawyers
have a reputation for being difficult people to deal with.
I happen to love having lawyers on his guests because

(22:47):
they're great talkers, and they expressed themselves so well, and
I find them interesting. I like to learn about their
their especially their strategies and their techniques and stuff, and
how they view things. I've had a lot of I've
had a bunch of lawyers on his guests. Another interesting

(23:09):
thing about BB is that she went through I mean,
there's some things that shows that she has real strength.
Her daughter, so she has three daughters. Her eldest I
think at this time was eighteen. She maybe twenty or
twenty one now, but one of her younger daughters was

(23:39):
diagnosed with cancer, like a very serious form of cancer,
and she talks about it in this interview. I just
wanted to share it. I thought that might be really
helpful just in her personal relationship with the o'keefes. But
we saw with see with her personal relationship with the

(24:08):
with that Hank Brennan had a great relationship with the o'keefes,
and that wasn't so helpful. I think it's too hold
on one second, and the other interesting thing is that
she married. Actually, I'm going to go backwards into this.
So she ended up marrying her daughter's let me read

(24:34):
this to you, her daughter's doctor. So in the New
York Times covered her wedding. She's been married three times.
As May West once said, wedding bells must sound like
an alarm clock to her, A flee zip up that
warmed her heart. Babe Fell invited doctor Jim Geller out

(24:59):
for a drinking in San Diego one Chile evening. A
year earlier, his pediatric liver team saved her daughter's life.
So there they are at their wedding. Does everybody see
that she's holding up a pretty big, big diamond there

(25:20):
in her wedding dress. Believe that this is in Hawaii.
Her mother lives in Hawaii. Doctor James Ian Geller snapped
up a photo of a glass of beer the beach
and as Cincinnati Bengals Kansas City Chief football game on
TV the evening. He arrived at Lojola Shores Hotel in

(25:43):
La Jola, California, in February two thousand twenty two, and
posted it on Facebook. This is the way to watch
the game, he wrote alongside the photo, which caught bbn
Uchinko Fell's attention instantly. Starting the next day, Doctor Geller,

(26:04):
fifty five, a pediatric oncologist specializing in liver and kidney tumors,
would host a three day National Pediatric Tumor Conference at
the hotel. A year earlier, he led a pediatric liver
team that saved Miss Fell's young daughter's life at Cincinnati

(26:31):
Children's Hospital in Ohio, where he was a clinician and
researcher until recently conducted research remotely. Her daughter, at age four,
was diagnosed with a high risk liver cancer and has
been cancer free for four years. Miss Fell, forty five,

(26:51):
who goes by BB, also has two teenage daughters, all
from previous marriages. He's in my city. What are the chances?
Miss Fell, who lives in San Diego County, werecalled thinking
and invited him out for a glass of wine via text.

(27:11):
Doctor Geller, who grew up in Marrineck, New York, also
has three children and now works part time as a
clinician and researcher at Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego.
He graduated with a bachelor's degree in chemistry from Dartmouth
That's where my grandfather went, and received a medical degree

(27:32):
from Tel Aviv University in israel I. Thought he was brilliant,
compassionate and really making a lot of difference to kids worldwide,
said Miss Fel, who separated six months earlier from her husband.
Their marriage ended in divorce, as did a previous marriage.

(27:53):
On his third day in Lajola, doctor Geller texts to
say he was free this evening. Was this a parent
who wants to say thank you or talk about research
or something else, Doctor Geller recalled, thinking he had been
on the verge of a separation himself, and the next
month moved into an apartment in Cincinnati. Ms Fell, a

(28:15):
lawyer who runs a personal injury law practice, received a
law degree magnum cumlatti from University of San Diego Law School,
where she's an adjunct professor teaching trial advocacy. Very much
like Hank Brennan. Right. She's also had a big case,

(28:36):
and we'll talk about that in a second. But she
graduated cumlatte with a bachelor's degree in political science from
University of California, San Diego. I didn't know if it
was a date. I didn't know what it was. Over
the next three hours, wine turned into dinner on the
rooftop deck of George's at the Cove overlooking La Jola

(28:58):
Cove and the Civic Ocean, where it was so chilly
and wendy that he gave her his Patagonia black fleece
zip up to warm up. I was enjoying myself and
I didn't want it to end, she said. I ordered
a butter Scotch gooey cake thing to prolong the meal.

(29:19):
There they are dancing pretty dress. By the time she
arrived home, he had sent her a long text. It
gave me butterflies, miss Fell said. A few days later,
they began texting and then spent the next five or
six weeks getting to know each other almost daily on
the phone. I didn't know how it would work. So

(29:41):
many states it's away. I was willing. I was willing
to play it out. So was he, and in March
he drove twelve hours from Cincinnati. That's a determined man
for their first date in New Orleans, where miss Fell
was chairing a two a conference of women trial lawyers.

(30:03):
They had a quick first kiss Helo, and after joining
her for a conference dinner that evening, one of her
closest friends, whom she described as she described as quote
one of the most vicious trial lawyers in the country,
grilled him. I already fell in love with him, she said,
and before they parted ways, he gave her the fleece

(30:26):
Patagonia zip up from their first evening together. They then
spoke multiple times a day and saw each other at
least once a month somewhere in the world, including conferences
in New York, Marcel's France, Arsil, France, and British Columbia,
Canada distance kids. He said nothing about it was going

(30:49):
to be easy, but it definitely felt right. In February
twenty twenty three, as the sunset and they had danced
song to songs by Jason Moraz, doctor Geller, proposed at
his lake house in Norris Lake, Tennessee, near Knoxville. Their
divorces had been finalized a few weeks earlier. In early

(31:13):
spring twenty twenty four, he officially moved into her house
in North County, San Diego, nicknamed Dorm North, since their
six children and nephew now living there, come and go
and sometimes hang out together. On June twentieth, the busy
couple got around to a no frozen legal ceremony by

(31:36):
Arlene Lousanne Lousano, a clerk at the San Diego County
Clerk's office in San Diego. We got the big pieces
in place, she said, when they exchanged vows and wedding
celebrations six months earlier at Camilla Estates, a waterfront venue

(31:58):
in who before thirty five guests that sunny afternoon and
made Hawaiian breezes. Guests enjoyed a menu prepared by Chow
Chai chow Warski, known as Chef Chai, and the bride's mother,
who lives in Hawaii, dance Day Hulu as a gift

(32:20):
to the couple. So there's that, so here here she
is talking about it. How she found him after a
period of a really difficult period. This is let me
just give if you want to look at all these
things yourself. Links in the description of this episode in

(32:43):
the show notes a few months ago, would you mind
reading it to us? So I said, I cut that
off a little tight. But she's asking Bbe to read
her Facebook.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Post want to hear a story. As many of you know,
over the last eighteen months, I've had a series of challenges.
I'll be honest. There were moments when I wondered whether
the hits would ever stop coming, but I kept putting
one foot in front of the other, hoping that darkness
would be followed by dawn. Well, here's the story part.

(33:20):
When we were in Cincinnati for Mattie's treatment, we met
a kind and brilliant man who, despite his accomplishments, was
bathed in humility. Jim Geller impressed me immediately. In an
interesting twist, almost a year after.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
We met a kind man, was there more than one
of her who did oh week, because it's her and
her kids. It's her and her kid Okay, Okay, That's
why I was like, does she contain I know she
contains multitudes. But after I left Cincinnati. Our paths crossed
again getting to know this amazing man has been a

(33:58):
silver lioning to be envied by all other silver linings.
Today in France, we celebrate a new chapter to brighter days,
never giving up hope and finding love where you least
expect it. Tears. I was so happy when I read that,
and now we're starting at the end. But let's talk
about those challenges.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Sure, So I didn't perceive myself as someone with challenges.
I would say about eighteen months ago, I felt like
I had the perfect life. There were literally days that
I woke up and I was like, I'm so happy.
I wouldn't want to change anything about where I am
in life, in this moment in time. And on January

(34:42):
eighteenth of twenty twenty one, all of that changed dramatically.
So I woke up in the morning and I took
two of my daughters, my fifteen year old and then
my youngest, to see their pediatrician for just a normal
well baby checkup. And when he put his hand on
her tummy, I just saw his face drop and he

(35:05):
kept kind of feeling around and I could just sense
something like in the room. The whole room changed and
he looked over at me and he said, there's an issue.
I feel something here. It's a mass, it's very large.
And then, honestly, I don't know what he said after that.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
That's like every mom's worst nightmare.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, it felt like the world was just spinning. And
I had to stop him mid sentence and say, I'm sorry,
I'm not listening to anything you're saying right now. I'm
just trying to decide how much to panic. Yeah, I
mean you were processing. Yeah, it must have been awful,
and then what happened.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
I mean, this reminds me of when Peggy O'Keefe was
told about John O'Keefe. He's found in the snow, and
then she goes to the hospital and as she's being
brought into the room to be told he's dead, Karen
Reid is yelling is he dead? Is he dead? She's like,
why is why is she there? You could tell why's

(36:06):
she here? Like, what the what is she doing here?
I think Peg o' kee figured out Karen Reid had
I think she was hip to Karen. She's like, you
just left him, He just left him, Karen. So I thought,

(36:33):
I think that boathes well to them having a good relationship.
I just please someone reach out to me. This is
like just as such a unusual situation. These lawyers going overconfident, thinking, well,
the facts are overwhelming. No lawyers going no, you know,

(36:55):
the bar of evidence is much lower. No jury is
going to buy a conspiracy. But they do. They do
buy a conspiracy, or they don't care. They just like
they hate the police. They want to let Karen off.
They want to ignore it, they don't want to follow
the evidence. They get bamboozled by the defense experts, and

(37:24):
mostly they get to fooled by Karen Reid's campaign. Every
lawyer you know looks at these like a one off.
It's not a one off. It's it's like a tsunami

(37:44):
of innocence fraud coming in. They are. It's not just
in America either, it's worldwide. It's just in America. We
have these civil courts that make these multimillion dollar judgments.
And that's so she's been through that very difficult, difficult

(38:05):
kind of cancer. Daughter's still living. She made it through.
But she's most famous for this judgment one hundred and
five million dollars that she was awarded to a cancer

(38:26):
patient for fraudulent treatment. A jury okay, and a jury
awarded Don Cally one hundred and five one hundred and
five million dollars three hundred and fifty six thousand, holding
self proclaimed cancer expert Robert Young responsible for fraudulently and

(38:50):
negligently representing cancer treatments that led to her cancer's progression.
CALLI had been diagnosed with stage one breast cancer and
was desperately in search of answers. I'm going to get
to her when she sought the cure of Young pH

(39:11):
miracle living. Here's I think I have her. I have
so many things open. This is the problem when I
opened so many, so many things, MA many boots, some
things out that I've dealt with. Here's her describing this

(39:36):
is the case that she's famous for. I, like every lawyer,
wants to win these like big, you know, multimillion dollar payouts. Hence,
you know, one of the reasons why innocence fraught is
so big is that after they get out by hook
or by crook, so they overturned their murder conviction, they

(40:01):
go to our civil courts and they say they want
compensation for being wrongfully convicted. And Karenry looks like she's
going to do some of these kind of lawsuits for
her rights being violated, et cetera, etc. We still haven't
seen any paperwork regarding that, so I don't know if

(40:25):
that was just to hype up her following. I would
think that they're going to these lawyers are hungry for money,
that we're going to see them. But who knows so
here or she is on the Synergy Trial Lawyer podcast,
take a listen to how she describes the case, the.

Speaker 10 (40:44):
Medical broad case you handled which resulted in that one
hundred and five million dollars verdict. It seems like an
incredibly crazy set of facts and story. Could you, briefly
for our listeners highlight a couple of the important points
about your client and what had happened in that case?

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Sure so, Mike, Yeah, My client was Don Kelly and
the defendant was Robert Young. Robert Young is somebody who
got a mail in, you know, science degree and held
himself out to be a doctor. He usually called himself
a doctor, he was not licensed, and he made his

(41:23):
money by defrauding people who are in the.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Most of that's interesting. She went against someone who called
himself a doctor but wasn't a doctor, Almost like someone
who might have been a propagandist for Kartory, someone who
might have sold her innocent fraud tail to the public.

(41:49):
Almost like that is a little comparison.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Vulnerable position that they'll ever be in in their entire lives,
people who have gotten a cancer diagnosis or their family
members who have a cancer diagnosis. And most of his
victims had been told that they were terminal and that
there was no traditional medical treatment available left to them,

(42:14):
and so he concocted a theory that is not based
on any science to sell smoothies and exercise regimens, and ultimately,
you know, for those who could afford it, he would
charge them three thousand dollars a night to come and

(42:34):
stay at his ranch in San Diego, where he would
give them a diet that was alkaline.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
And what's so this gave me hope because he was like,
it sounds like a cult leader. Frankly, but did she
have a jury of and did she come? Was she
also fighting his supporters and a and a support a
pr offensive that tainted the jury pool. That would be

(43:08):
a really good experience off that had happened in this case,
but it doesn't look like it. You know, it's when
we like in the criminal trial when Hank Brennan decided
not to use nervous Trooper Paul, who ended up being

(43:28):
correct about everything by the way, for most things, and
get and hire for a lot of money an expert,
you know Welsher. He thought that that you know, would
be better to sell the jury on. But he lost.

(43:51):
He lost a lot because you know, trooper Paul gets paid.
It doesn't get paid whether it testifies. He's not getting
paid to testify, Welshure is. So now you have two
paid experts going up against each other instead of an
expert for the state who gets paid is you know,
police salary for just doing his job, who's just doing

(44:15):
his job, who has no incentive, financial incentive to testify
in any sort of way up against you know, these
paid experts who are communicating on signal and are lying
on the stand about being paid and being neutral. I
mean you have and deleting all their text messages and

(44:39):
emails before trial and only one information from the defense
did never ask the Commonwealth for any information to do
their quote unquote experiments. Those are the great scientists quote
unquote in this case talking about the arc awitnesses. But

(45:00):
you lose something, So you lose something when you bring
in like Gangbuster, big you know female, you know, Glamazon attorney.
You know, so do you have seven lawyers up against three?

(45:21):
I hope, you know. I hope she fills in some holes,
you know, for the if there are holes in the
knowledge of wrongful death case cases for Diller, I hope
she fills them in Mark Diller. I hope she fills
them in. But I would suggest she dressed down, dressed

(45:45):
down for court. I know everyone is saying, like, oh,
it's going to be so terrible for Karen Reid to
be cross examined by a woman better looking than herself.
She'll go crazy. I don't think Karen Reid is gonna
I don't think much bothers Karen Reid. I think all
those stories we heard in trial was her way of

(46:06):
controlling John Okaye. I don't think she's really bothered by much.
I don't think much gets under her skin. I mean,
the thing about psychopaths is they're generally stealing and cool
and lack of a real full emotional life. By the way,

(46:27):
tonight is a doubleheader, So after this at nine, I'm
going on Patreon. I'm doing my first Patreon Live. For
my Patreon supporters, we're going to be going over this
new video of Donna Edelson breakdown after her verdict. We're

(46:49):
going to look at it together. We can talk a
little bit about that case ahead of the sentencing. Donna's
being sentenced on Monday. Be covering it on this channel
for all those interested. So for all my Patreon supporters
and people who've been thinking about becoming a Patreon supporter.

(47:11):
Link is in the description of this episode supports. I
think it starts at less than a Starbucks cappuccino. I
think it's like for something a month. I think it
starts at and you get access to a whole bunch
of stuff that's not available in my channel.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
What's particularly horrible about this man is, you know, don't
I don't necessarily think it's bad to give somebody hope, right,
and I don't think that a diet of fruits and
vegetables is bad. But what he did was he took
it to an extreme where he was actually torturing people.
So he would tell them, you know, don't don't go

(47:55):
to your medical doctor because they're going to give you
things that are going to get kill you. Don't talk
to your family because they don't understand and they're going
to push you into doing treatments that are going to
kill you. Don't take your pain medicine because your pain
medicine will result in your body not being alkaline and

(48:15):
then your cancer is going to flourish if it was
going poorly.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
I mean, that might give bb Fel some some understanding
of course of control and the control that Karen had
over John. Having gone up against this sounds like a
cult leader to me, but I might. You know, my

(48:46):
red flags go up when she's saying, like a diet
of fruit and vegetables isn't bad? Like not what it is.
You know, the issue is the control he had over
his patience, that he was a fraud and that his
treatment didn't work. I mean, it's like and the treatment

(49:07):
was extremely expensive. Let's take a let's take a look
at it. Here's here's the woman who got one hundred
and five million dollar payout and at the time, he
also was tried criminally. So my question is is did
this woman ever see anything close to one hundred and

(49:29):
five million dollars in this case? Because you'll see he's
in prison.

Speaker 14 (49:35):
Now we're hearing from a victim of the man accused
of faking his medical credentials and treating cancer patients with
junk science. Good evening, thanks for joining us. I'm Marcella Lee.

Speaker 13 (49:46):
That victim is speaking with us.

Speaker 14 (49:48):
Just days before the accused Robert Young, heads back to
court to face criminal charges after being charged again with
treating people without a medical license. CBSA's Anna Laurel shares
the story of a cancer patient who describes what happened
to her when she put her trust in Young.

Speaker 13 (50:04):
I spoke with Don Kelly earlier today. She says she
hopes her story keeps people from believing Robert Young. She
says he praise on people with terminal illnesses because they
will do anything to try to live.

Speaker 9 (50:17):
I'm alive, and I know had I continued on, I
would not be here right now.

Speaker 13 (50:25):
Don Kelly was thirty three when she was diagnosed with
breast cancer.

Speaker 9 (50:29):
It was just my world.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
So this was stage one breast cancer too, so it
sounded like by the time she was done with treatment
with this doctor, it was at least stage three, stage four.
This doctor, I'm sorry. See how powerful the word doctor is,
how powerful words are. This guy wasn't the doctor. This fraud.
Excuse me, this non treatment, with this fraud. Her cancer

(50:55):
had already progressed so far, what was collapsing?

Speaker 13 (50:59):
She had a lot beck to me, but was told
she faced lengthy treatments. Looking for options, she found Robert Young,
the creator of the pH Miracle diet. He claims his
diet can treat and cure cancer and other terminal diseases.

Speaker 9 (51:13):
My cancer is really aggressive. It's an aggressive form of
breast cancer. And he said, it doesn't matter as long
as you do this diet.

Speaker 13 (51:21):
She went to his luxury ranch in Valley Center to
learn more about these treatments and his diet that include
pumping patients with ivs of baking soda.

Speaker 9 (51:29):
And paying two to five thousand dollars a day, you know,
depending on how many ivs you were getting.

Speaker 13 (51:36):
But Don's cancer returned.

Speaker 9 (51:38):
And he's saying, I don't care about the numbers. I
don't care if you two or three more tumors pop up.
This is what happens. It gets worse before it gets better.

Speaker 13 (51:50):
And it did get worse. But six years after her
first diagnosis, Don finally went to an oncologist.

Speaker 9 (51:57):
It's not just right here, it's everywhere. It's all up
and down your spine. It's in your chest, it's in
your nodes.

Speaker 13 (52:08):
Don't started to realize who she was dealing with. In
twenty seventeen, Young served prison time for practicing medicine without
a license. In court, he admitted he did not have
any post high school educational degrees from any accredited schools.

Speaker 9 (52:22):
And I realized that he.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Knew nothing, say you know, And I was listening to
the Karen Reid supporters talk about the Turtle Boy taping
Karen Reid without her knowledge or consent scandal and lying
about it to all his acute not only lying about it,
but accusing the people who were breaking that story of

(52:47):
being liars. Liars, were no receipts, that knew nothing that
I mean, just denied, denied, deny, dined, And it was
it was like it with spaces on exos listening to it,
and it was like listening to people come out of

(53:07):
a cult. Like they could get it about halfway that
now Turtle Boy was not trustworthy, But Turtle Boy sold
you the story, Karen Reid's story. But they're going to
still support Karen Reid. He's still a great journalist. They
still can't get it that what they that he fabricated
narratives for years for Karen Reid. They can't get that

(53:33):
this is all a house of cards because you don't
want to think that the money that you've donated, the
time that you've given, and that you've been fooled, like
it's hard. It's hard to admit that you've been fooled.
And that's why I always say that Karen Reid supporters
are going to be the last ones to know that
they've been fooled. But this is like such a powerful

(53:58):
movement and it's just the majority of true crime media.
In order to be popular, if they don't push one fraud,
they feel they have to push another. I got into it,

(54:18):
so you know, those are not my allies. If I
agree with you on one case, you're not my ally.
If you're pushing innocence fraud, you are not an ally
of mine of any sort. You're pushing false narratives for killers,
you are not an ally of mine. When you're part

(54:39):
of the problem. And like I said, these narratives, these
fake wrongfully convicted narratives, wrongfully accused narratives, police tunnel vision,

(55:00):
planet evidence, Kangaroo Core narratives are like crack for Certainly
in America, our media cannot produce enough documentaries with wrongfully

(55:22):
convicted killers. It doesn't matter how many times it's been done,
how many other media has been produced like it. There's
always money to be made in pushing this fake narrative,

(55:43):
fraud out for the most the worst of our society,
the most evil, heartless human beings of our society, the
people that victimize other people, people that kill. I mean,
it used to be used to be killers, didn't get
much killers. It was generally considered like a taboo to

(56:06):
kill people. Not so much anymore, especially cops. I mean,
it would be it's amazing that they've I'm surprised and
not surprised how much, how many people they've brought into this.
I mean, it's all it's been. You know, it comes

(56:27):
on the back of decades of a war on the police.
But I would say it would be much harder innocent
fraud campaign to spend like maybe forty fifty years ago,
and that no one, you know, a campaign with an
accused cop killer. I would think it would be harder
to spend forty or fifty years ago. Then now now

(56:49):
it comes on the back of so much of the
like I said, war in the police. So this is
this woman's story. She got one hundred and five million,
saw him in court? Did everybody seem in court? This
dude here he is like, that's so. In twenty seventeen.

Speaker 13 (57:10):
Seventeen, Young served prison time for practicing medicine without a license.
In court, he admitted he did not have any post
high school educational degrees from any accredited schools.

Speaker 9 (57:20):
And I realized that he knew nothing and that no
one had survived.

Speaker 13 (57:27):
In twenty eighteen, a jury awarded Donne one hundred million
dollars against Young, and next week Young will be back
in court again, accused of doing the same thing he
did to Donn and others.

Speaker 9 (57:37):
He was a con man, he was a narcissist.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
M sounds like someone else we know. It's a little
bit like Karen read herself. So she's gone up against
another con man and con woman, but she's also going
up against organized crime. That's what it is. That is
what innocence throught is organized crime? Can bb Fell understand it?

(58:03):
Is she brave enough? Is she willing to think outside
the box enough to beat this? I don't know a
court TV everybody said it was great. She's a great lawyer.
You know, Karen Reid's lawyers aren't all that great in court.

(58:26):
They're doing something else. So if they were great lawyers,
they wouldn't have to commit fraud, innocence fraud right, They
wouldn't need an innocence fraud camping, they wouldn't need turtle Boy,
they wouldn't need any of those things. If they were
really great lawyers, they would just argue the law. This
is something else there she's up against. So here's the

(58:46):
talking heads on Core TV talking about it. Take a listen.

Speaker 7 (58:53):
Jennifer, what does this move the ball for the Okies
lawsuit against Karen Reid?

Speaker 11 (59:02):
Well, I think the best thing about Bebe is she
brings all of this experience and particular expertise in this
area of wrongful death. And that's what the O'Keeffe need.
The O'Keefe needed. Listen, she has gotten so many suits
settled and won huge verdicts in court, so she's a
good litigator. Specifically, I note a five million dollar judgment

(59:26):
that was rendered after a child was hit on a bike.
I think that those facts kind of closely mimic this.
I look for Beebe to come in like a firestorm.

Speaker 7 (59:36):
Joe Taborino, this is a building up. You've got Alan
Jackson hanging on with Karen Reid on the sie Well.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
I think Brennan came in and as a firestorm at times,
but he walked out with his tail between his legs.
I mean, you know, this is something else you expect
to win just on the facts like that was it
seems like a pretty easy case of fraud to win.

(01:00:04):
You know, woman been harmed, went through treatment, started at
stage one and did it like stage four, and no
one's been helped by his treatment ever in the history
of his not even with like placebo effect. According to
that woman. That seems like a pretty her most famous judgment,
seems like a pretty easy case to win. I'm not

(01:00:31):
convinced that they might be better without her, but they
have to look at this outside of the box. This
is this is not a case that they can just
be like, oh, we'll just pick a jury and we'll
try to court. I think they might be better to
be spent really sussing out the jury, getting experts who

(01:00:55):
can do background checks on the jury as much as
they're allowed not get free Karen readers on the jury,
or people who've been really exposed to this team. You know,
this innocence broad campaign. But two lawyers up against seven
there is a little different than three lawyers up against seven.

(01:01:20):
Still the underdog, but gle amazon bebe super lawyer. I
don't know. Dressed down, baby, dressed down, dressed out. I
know you want to look good on camera, but dressed down.

Speaker 7 (01:01:33):
These are my advice, look case as well, helping that
team out. Now you're seeing the o'keefes also bolstering their forces.
To Jennifer's point, and Bibe's is a good litigator, it's
not you know, she's not a civil attorney that's afraid
to go into a courtroom. She will fight it all

(01:01:53):
the way to the end with a jury. And that's
looks like this, that's where this thing's going.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Oh yes, And.

Speaker 5 (01:02:01):
Whoever the O'Keefe's higher, they've got a really good chance
of winning this case for three reasons. Number one is
less a burden of proof. They only have to proof
preponderance that Ms Reid killed mister O'Keefe. Preponderance means more
likely than not. Number two, Ms Reid will testify because
in the civil case, you know she won the criminal

(01:02:22):
she doesn't ever write against you know, self incrimination, so
she could be called to testify a trial, she could
be deposed. And number three, you're going to have less.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Outside Actually, I just see the the conversation going on
in the chat about Lindsay having a lawyer. That's a
more complicated because there were the reason she didn't answer you,
maes Is. It's a more complicated answer, and I can

(01:02:51):
talk about it. But funds have been spent on lawyers.
I can tell you that she hasn't always been doing
it alone. She's doing an impressive job doing it alone,
but it's a complicated situation. Altogether. I trust Lindsay Gaitani

(01:03:13):
more than I trust Aidan Carney, that's for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
Influences, I don't think in this civil process you're going
to have a lot of outside influences, like you know,
the Turtle boy factor and everybody else who is outside
of the courthouse. I just don't see that happening in
the civil case. So overall, whoever the O keeps higher,
they've got a really good shot at winning the civil case.

Speaker 7 (01:03:35):
I don't know about that, Joe that I don't know
that there's not going to be an army of people
outside anywhere where Camon Reid is because for whatever reason,
people are just all in. David Bruwer your thoughts on
the addition right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Because he knows he knows this fraud. I don't know
who this host is, but good on him. That's my point.
He's making my point for me. That's my point. It's like, oh,
we're up against this fraud. We're going to get a lawyer. Lawyer,
another resource can be helpful, but unless you confront the fraud,

(01:04:14):
it's not gonna Come talk to me, Mark Dillar, come
talk to me. Bb, Come talk to me. I do
know this fraud. I'm not a lawyer, but I do
know this fraud. I've been studying it for over ten
years now. This is my area of interest and expertise.

(01:04:35):
Come talk to me. It's much better to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
See.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
There's so many different elements. But you know you're up
against so any fraud. Let me put it this way.
So any fraud is making something look like something it's
not okay, So it usually has a shine any surface.
If you notice that Karen Reid's lawyers are all really

(01:05:04):
like fit. She knows that she has like a polished,
good looking team and their suits are always really expensive,
and that they're they're they have their own media person.
They're going to make things as slick as possible, so

(01:05:25):
you have to combat them with and not be slick,
be truthful, stick to every minute fact, and tell the
story in minutia from beginning to end with witnesses. It's
not if you have two slick presentations, it's hard to

(01:05:48):
tell who's the slick person and who's the truthful person.
I'm not saying don't put on a good court case,
but slickness is not helpful. Performance is not helpful. Just

(01:06:08):
try the case, stick to the facts of the case,
and bring out the facts that haven't been put in
the public domain. There's a lot that hasn't been put
in the public domain, So like what's on Karen's phone,

(01:06:30):
then it come out. Fight to get that stuff out there.
Talk about the plumber, talk about Karen's lies and Karen's manipulation.
Talk about this in terms of a DV case. I'm
going to be talking more, at least, I hope so
on this channel about Karen Reid and her isolation, isolating

(01:06:54):
John before his before she hipped him with her car
twenty four miles an hour in reverse her foot seventy
five percent on the gas pedal. But he's right, He's like,
you're not. You think you're gonna win this because you
have a super lawyer and it's just gonna be in court.

(01:07:14):
The public comes into the court. I mean, it wouldn't
matter if it were just like a court, a normal
court case, if you had a huge group outside, because
the jury's not supposed to acknowledge what they read outside
outside influences. But our courts don't work in a vacuum.

(01:07:37):
And he knows that, this host knows that.

Speaker 7 (01:07:39):
Of BB two d O'Keeffe team.

Speaker 15 (01:07:43):
Yeah, I'm with Joe on this one. I think the
plaintiff Sir in a strong position just because the difference
of the burden of proof.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
The best example of that is the oj case.

Speaker 15 (01:07:53):
Right, he was acquitted on the criminal he was found
liable in the civil and that's the difference of the
burden of proof for the plaintiffs in the case and
the Keys family. They really need someone to manage the circus.
I mean, this has been a circus, to say the
least honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
With and he's trying to talk, he's going to call
it a circus. He's talking about the innocence broad campaign. Again,
burden of proof is a great thing, that it's a
lower burnout of proof. But I don't think burden of
proof was the problem. What how did the defense offer real,
any real alternate theory as to what happened that night,

(01:08:31):
real theory that that that matched the facts of the case.
I mean, if he if Karen's reads car really didn't
hit John O'Keefe, how did microscopic pieces of his daylight
en up his In short, how do you plant microscopic pieces?

(01:08:54):
Look at the timeline, there's no time to plant pieces
hm other elements. But bring in the whole relationship, Bring
in bring in the Karen Reid's own personality and the

(01:09:21):
way she kept power and control in that relationship by lying,
by making up fake things like plumbers that she has
to wait for her broken pipe, Richie the plumber, the
toilet see her ten surgery she had for her non

(01:09:46):
existent colon cancer like that was red in court, but
like never never really dealt with just sort of like
Karen Reid is a massive liar. I know. I liked
what Hank Brennan did with bringing in her own clips.

(01:10:10):
Thought that was helpful, but not helpful enough clearly.

Speaker 15 (01:10:18):
Turtle Boy, and then the allegations about law force, law
enforcement misconduct and all the things. So I think what
Babe brings at least to the team is the ability
to sort of manage the chaos, because that's exactly what's
happening here. It happened in the criminal case, we could
expect it again in the civil case. And I think

(01:10:38):
that it's good that she's added, but I think that
they are already in a very good position in a
different venue.

Speaker 7 (01:10:46):
Reach team may have picked up a small victory after
the judge in this case dismissed a claim of emotional
distress from John oald Keep's niece. Hears some portion of
that argument from the plaintiff's attorney.

Speaker 8 (01:11:00):
Karen Greed plots. She fabricates a conspiracy, She launches a
public campaign of disinformation, and she involves a bolder named
Turtle Boy. She leaks not for public information through him,
she pits her followers against the O'Keefe family, and all
the while, Karen knows that the O'Keefe family is also vulnerable,

(01:11:26):
grieving another tragedy in their family. The O'Keefe and Kaylee
suffer severe emotional distress.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
It's more than.

Speaker 8 (01:11:36):
Anguish and more than grief, and it is not overlapping
with the wrongful death statue.

Speaker 7 (01:11:43):
Although the judge agreed to dismiss that claim, he did
rule that other claims of reckless or intentional infliction of
emotional distress can standpointing to Read's narratives. The parties are
to do back in court November. No trial dates been set,
so we're asking which side has an advantage.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
It's so far.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
I mean, that's I mean, I think all those facts
can come into.

Speaker 5 (01:12:08):
The the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
The charge that still stands. I mean, bring it in,
bring Turtle Boy in, Jennifer.

Speaker 7 (01:12:20):
It is really early in the civil process when you
factor in the Read team's threat, if you will, that
they are going to be launching lawsuits against Proctor at
all and they want them to be enveloped into this case.
The judge has to decide on that. I mean, the

(01:12:41):
deadline for discovery isn't until December of next year. This
is not going to trial anytime soon. But at this
early juncture, this is the question. So let's answer it.
Who does have an advantage at this point?

Speaker 11 (01:12:55):
Well, the facts would tell you based on this new
burden of proof in the civil as Joe has discussed
and David discussed, it's so much lower. So for that
reason alone, I believe the o'keefes have the advantage. The
facts absolutely support that he was hit by the car,

(01:13:17):
that he was hit by Karen Reid, but the burden
has to be meant and this one is much lower.
So for that reason, they have the advantage at this point, Joe,
you agree.

Speaker 5 (01:13:31):
Well, yeah, like I said, Yeah, like I said before,
I think they do have the advantage. And you know,
David mentioned about the Oj case, and that is the
quintessential example of somebody winning in this in the criminal side,
not guilty, but losing in the civil side. And what
was a determining factor in that case? Oj had to
testify and he was horrible, And the same thing's going

(01:13:52):
to happen here. Karen Reid will have to testify in
the civil case.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Now, well, if they jurors are all loving her, you know,
it doesn't matter what comes out of her mouth. I
mean we were all listening, We're like, oh, oh, they
don't hear it. They hear the words, they don't hear it.

(01:14:20):
All they see is innocence. So it depends how they've
been touched. But she's not likable in interviews. Do it
someone who hasn't been touched by the innocence fraud campaign.
She's not likable. She can be likable, but not around

(01:14:40):
this topic. She's so hateful of the family all those
things brought out that that will be an advantage.

Speaker 5 (01:14:47):
There's no trial, She'll still be deposed, she'll be under
oath and the plaintiff's attorneys are going to be grilling
or left and right, and she's never gone through that
before because she didn't testify at your criminal trust. So
I still think the plaintiffs will have the upper handedness.

Speaker 7 (01:15:01):
Just because of the rules of the road. Let's talk
about if it goes to trial. As you say, well,
the judge sort of gave both sides pep talk and said,
you don't want this to go to trial. People take
a listen.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
Well, palties also.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Have another way to do this case.

Speaker 7 (01:15:16):
They can do it my way of potential resolution.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
And I mean this sincerely.

Speaker 8 (01:15:20):
When I say that being a judge for many years
you learn things, and what you learn is that oftentimes
litigation is an inactual way to.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Try to resolve parties. Disputes. There's alternative dispute resolution, and
there's mediation.

Speaker 5 (01:15:34):
There's all kinds of other avenues that we advance to
try to be people what they want, which is resolution
of the case.

Speaker 8 (01:15:41):
The most important thing, it would seem to me, to
any party to this case, is to resolve the uncertain right.

Speaker 7 (01:15:48):
David, do you think there's a chance.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
Some so that Karen Reid's insurance will pay this? Is
that true? If she loses in this her insurance. I
don't think so. She'd be adding seven lawyers if it
were just her insurance, or she adding seven lawyers because

(01:16:10):
it messes up her Hollywood money and going on writing
her second book and producing films about how you know,
mockumentaries about how bad she had it and how badly
she was treated. Does anybody know anything about that? Is
this insurance money when you're driving drunk to insurance really.

Speaker 7 (01:16:32):
Pay this thing? Does settle?

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
See that judge is doing what judges do.

Speaker 15 (01:16:41):
They're trying to get those course cases out of their courtroom.
And that judge knows exactly what he's getting into. I mean,
the trial that we had in the criminal case, the
two trials now coming into the civil case, is going
to take time, it's going to take court resources, it's
going to take a lot for not only that court,
with the community to go through another trial. And it's

(01:17:04):
not just that judge. That's it's not this case. That's
what judges do. Judges are trying to resolve and then
if there are disputable issues a fact or law, that's
what trials are for. But that's the same thing going
on in every single criminal and civil courtroom across the country,
trying to resolve cases amicably.

Speaker 7 (01:17:25):
Yeah, and Jennifer, I saw you shaking your head. This
isn't going to end anywhere right quickly.

Speaker 11 (01:17:34):
Yeah, no way, there is no way. I mean, look
at the fact that Alan Jackson is now coming on
to bolster the civil side of things. They do not
want to lose. They want to full on one hundred
percent victory with this. So they are not going to acquiesce.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
No, She's right, that's one thing surprise there that I
agree with, Jennifer Coffindaffer. They're not. They're never going to
settle this case ever. Ever, ever, ever, Karen Reid's never
going to admit any part in her murder of John O'Keeffe.

(01:18:15):
She will go to her grave saying she didn't do it.
But this seems to me, I don't know. I'd like
to know more about why and how she was picked.
I noticed that she was at a she was in
Massachusetts for a you know, a conference like a talk.

(01:18:42):
I wonder if Mark Dillar or someone close to him
hurt her that. I wonder how she was picked exactly.
We'll learn more, maybe as she does her own interviews.
But I'm probably the least. I just have to express
mike concern and my lack of optimism around this choice.

(01:19:07):
It's not particularly I think they need to keep thinking
outside the box because this is this is something else.
Like I said, it's organized you're going up against organized crime.
This is organized crime, and it's done in the courtroom.
It's done outside the courtroom. And I hope they think

(01:19:32):
of all aspects and how they're going to present the
O'Keefe family to the public, in the media, et cetera,
et cetera. I mean a lot of things. I think
one lawyer there was right that a lot of things
have to be managed not just in the courtroom, but
outside the courtroom. And there's still so much that hasn't

(01:19:54):
been put into the public domain about this story. That's
why I keep coming back to it and talking about it.
There's a great deal more that needs to be said,
so I'll continue talking about it on this channel one
more time. Tonight, I am going to be on Patreon

(01:20:14):
Patrons Only Live, first live episode, nine o'clock. Looking forward
to seeing you all there. We're going to have some fun,
much more upbeat, up upbeat topic. I'm going to talk
about Donna Adelson's going to be sentenced. Will she she

(01:20:42):
has to talk Monday. What is she going to say.
I'll be covering it on this channel live as I
always do, but she does have to give some statement.
She can say no statement, no comment, but she will
be asked to speak, all right, and we'll probably hear

(01:21:04):
more victim impact statements or they'll be presented to the court.
If they don't get read out loud in court, they
will be mailed in to the judge. All right, have
a great night, everyone, Thanks so much for hanging out
and listening. Once again, this is a listener supported channel.

(01:21:28):
I count on all of you to keep this channel
going and producing episodes. Hold on one second, one hot minute,

(01:21:50):
that's better. I forgot to plug in my computer. I
was about to go dark. Everyone would have wondered what
had happened to me. Please support the channel. Links are
in the description of this episode Venmo. Buy me a
coffee Patreon and you get a whole hosted episodes, including

(01:22:14):
the live episode tonight at nine pm Eastern. I will
see everyone there, I hope. Links in the description of
this channel. Have a great night everyone.

Speaker 16 (01:22:39):
Hi, hit my.

Speaker 12 (01:22:39):
Boyfriend with my car. It wasn't an accident, but with lion.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Lawyers, I'll go far.

Speaker 12 (01:22:50):
Lion lawyers and witness harassment, all avoid prisons.

Speaker 7 (01:22:58):
It was so.

Speaker 12 (01:23:02):
I pushed the pain on, now him hard. Now the
legal system my clown inn since for a campaign to
save my skin, making hony truth is my second victim.

Speaker 4 (01:23:31):
Carry carry ginger like John who were Mama? My innocence
for a campaign is my biggest d.

Speaker 16 (01:23:44):
That h m hmmm mmmm.

Speaker 12 (01:24:08):
I hid my boyfriend with my coat. It wasn't an as.

Speaker 16 (01:24:23):
Both flying lawyers, I'll go far, Lion lawyers and witness
harassment all the void prison.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
It was snowing.

Speaker 12 (01:24:37):
I pushed the pedal down, hit him hard. Now the
legal system of my clown.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
In a sense from a campaign to save my skin.

Speaker 12 (01:24:54):
Making loney truth. This is my second victim.

Speaker 16 (01:25:00):
Barry carried ginger like John.

Speaker 4 (01:25:04):
Your world, Mama, My innocence broad campaign is my

Speaker 16 (01:25:10):
Big it's it it

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