Karen Read: The Mask Slips.

When Karen Read’s mask slips, itcan take some time to recognize that you’ve been fooled by her. Today we look at the public mask of accused murderer Karen Read and why it may be a long time before witnesses wake up a recognize that they have been fooled by her.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, just to be clear, you didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We know who did it, Steve, we know, and we
know who spearheaded this cover up.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
You all know if John was beaten up and attacked
in that house, who did it?

Speaker 4 (00:13):
We don't know. We don't know, We don't know, and
it's not for us to know.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Somebody other than Karen, somebody other than Karen is responsible
for that, for the killing of John.

Speaker 5 (00:34):
You are listening to the ROBERTA.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Glass True Crime report putting the true back in true
crime from New York City. ROBERTA. Glass is now on
the record.

Speaker 5 (01:09):
Oh okay, hello Tater, Hello, et noa allabout girl Christina?
Do we have a full role called Troy? Hello? Everybody
just his chickens in here today. I know I put

(01:31):
this up late. I wanted to talk about Karen Reid
and her public mask. And you know, we heard so
many witnesses in this case talk about how they liked

(01:51):
Karen Reid, especially in the first trial. And I think
the point, you know, also not just in the trial
they were saying, we all liked Karen Reid. Also when
they were being interviewed, they were saying, oh, we liked her.
And I think you know publicly. They thought this was
a great plan because it would show that, you know,
nobody had anything against Karen, nobody was pinning it on

(02:15):
the girl as Yanettie and Jackson were trying to push
and Karen read herself that would push that the life
was so unfair, that everything was happening to Karen Reid unfairly.
But the problem with that is that as they're watching

(02:36):
this behavior, and I think it's an important time to
talk about public mass, as they're watching this behavior Karen
Reid go through her trial as the happiest murder defendant,
and watching her spearhead and innocence fraud campaign and a
witness harassment campaign, that they're having some difficulty recognizing that

(03:09):
they were fooled, that the Karen Reid that presented themselves
to to them was certainly not the real Karen Reid.
And I think it would have been a certainly much
more effective testimony if Carrie Roberts or Jen McCabe had said, look,

(03:31):
I was fooled by her. Certainly I was presented. Especially
Jen McCabe, We've never have we ever seen that any
evidence of Karen Reid's health history, real health history, I
mean excuse me for being skeptical, but this is the

(03:52):
same woman who told Brian Higgins that she had ten
surgeries related to her colon cancer, and she was presented
to the court as having by Yanetti and her bail
hearing is having a brain tumor. You know these are

(04:12):
strangely did she concoct these illnesses to kind of masquerade,
as you know, first, to be like in some ways?
How do I put this to be like or to

(04:33):
retraumatize John O'Keeffe. So his sister Kristen died of a
brain tumor, Now she has a brain tumor. Oh, your
friend Jen McCabe has MS, I have MS. Oh your
dad died of colon cancer. I had colon cancer. I
had ten surgery. Was this her way of gaining sympathy,

(04:58):
to get high status, to get lots of sympathy and
become likable by putting herself in the victim role, to
gain power and control over the people she was around.
But instead we heard, oh, she was at she was hysterical,

(05:20):
instead of she was acting a hysterical I mean, are
these witnesses going to figure out that this was an
act By the time we get to the testimony in
the second trial in the civil trials. When I'm talking
about this was an act. There was no need to
go get Jen McCabe or Michael Camerano. I mean, that

(05:45):
was her first pick. Michael Camerano, then Catherine Camerano. They
weren't available, so then she went to Carrie Roberts and
Jen McCabe. There was no need to involve them. She
could have just like called nine or gone to where
she last saw John, you know, where she hit him,

(06:06):
where she reversed into him, and called nine one one.
But if she had done that, if she not mixed
in other personalities with human frailties, because we all have
human frailties, there would be no human frailties to exploit.
There would be no other characters in this, and it

(06:30):
would be hard for Karen Reid to spin an alternative
narrative that she didn't know what she did. I mean,
even people on this side were saying she got so
drunk she may have blacked out. She may have not
known she hit him. She clearly knew she hit him.
She's saying he's dead, he was hit by a plow.

(06:52):
I mean, she may have gotten the idea that she
hit him by a plow as she's looking at plows
plowing the road as she's driving in that area. But
I thought it was a very very big tell when
she said you didn't look mortally wounded. To me, that

(07:13):
was an admission in the negative. But I was looking
at I was just thinking about how all these convicted
killers and accused killers, their personality is so alike that
there is something there is, you know, it comes with

(07:36):
if we go through this psychopathic playlist, it comes with
psychopathy and the narcissmism that's always attached to psychopathy. So
all psychopaths are also narcissists. So great they always want
to tell you about how they were done wrong, how

(07:57):
they were treated badly by the police, but they never
want to talk about the victim, the victim's family, the
suffering that they caused. They just sort of only deal
with the very surface of life and the slick you know,

(08:19):
and the ways that they can manipulate and control the
public narrative to make themselves the victim and to ghost
the victim altogether. So I was looking at this footage,
so Jeffrey McDonald, it's like a very famous true crime

(08:40):
case in America, probably one of the biggest cases. And
he killed his nineteen February nineteen seventy. He killed his
pregnant wife, Colette McDonald, and his twos, Kimberley and Kristen.

(09:03):
And he was supported by Colette's mother and her stepfather
very much. And one of the first, you know, hints
that they that anything was wrong with this guy, is
when he went on Cabot, which is big talk show

(09:23):
at the time, and we're really going I mean, this
is before I was born, so you know, we're going
back this case. You know, some crime happened before I
was born. But if you look at the footage of
Jeffery McDonald, I'm going to show it in a second
of Jeffery McDonald on to Cabot, it is so close

(09:47):
to Karen Reid. I mean, you cannot not think of
Karen Reid and the way that she dealt with the media,
the way she acted. Remember, she couldn't make it sincere enough.
She somehow couldn't make it sincere enough. Right, I did

(10:08):
not hit John with my car. I can't make it
sincere enough. And she's smiling deeping delight. Here's Jeffrey McDonald
on Dick Cabot. Let's just take a quick quick look
at this run down of the case and quick look
at him on Tick Cabot.

Speaker 6 (10:30):
Apparently enjoying his newfound celebrity, McDonald continued to try his
own case in the court of public opinion.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
My next guest is doctor Jeffrey McDonald.

Speaker 6 (10:43):
On December fifteenth, nineteen seventy, McDonald appeared on the popular
late night program The Dick Cabot Show.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
I Hope it didn't do painful for you.

Speaker 6 (10:52):
Where it became very clear McDonald was fast becoming his
own worst enemy.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
Before and watch the beginning of a late night talk show.

Speaker 7 (11:06):
He knew how to do it, as he said the
talk show trade, he knew how to handle himself.

Speaker 6 (11:11):
Dick Cabot remembers well the night he was face to
face with McDonald, his affect is wrong, totally wrong.

Speaker 7 (11:18):
My aspect was jun find your wife and kids murder,
and even his answer to that was like, hey, yeah,
and that's something almost I like Bob Hope, very like
Bob Pope for the people.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
In the army who wanted a court muscle.

Speaker 6 (11:35):
Regardless of any of that, I was angry, I'm sure
I was.

Speaker 5 (11:41):
Where did the investigating oh, and Jeffrey McDonald blames it
on the police. I mean, where have we seen this
all before with Karen Reid? Right, and blame it on
the police. Very similar. So you know when we go
to let's look at Carrie Roberts, her interview very quickly

(12:02):
on Good Morning America. Just just a quick snippet of this.
Check out her description. So instead of saying Karen Reid
was acting hysterical, she invited me in to use me

(12:23):
to deflect attention away from herself and to use me
as at a potential alternative suspect. Because Carrie Roberts was
emotionally traumatized, she was a good witness for the defense
to exploit. Her memory wasn't as solid as Jen McCabe.

(12:46):
So Jen McKay became the strongest witness. So who became
public enemy number one? Jen McCabe. She should have been
a suspect herself. She should really be in prison. I mean,
how many times we had two different witnesses expert witnesses.
It's science, guys, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it,

(13:09):
pre Karen Reid talking point, It's science, guys. Debunk the
two twenty seven phone search yeah, happened due to Karen
Reid asking her to google how long to Die in
the cold. Because Karen Reid doesn't do any doesn't make

(13:30):
any evidence herself, she always uses other people to throw
it in the mix and confuse things. I didn't look
up how to long to die in the cold? Jen,
you look it up, you call nine one one. So
listen to Carrie Roberts describing Karen Read's demeanor and interactions

(13:52):
that morning of January twenty nine, twenty twenty two. Snowy
you couldn't see.

Speaker 8 (13:59):
And as we would rive, Karen would lean in between
us and she was frantic. I mean, she knew John
was missing, so she was frantic about it as I
would be. And then we turned to pull down fair View.

Speaker 5 (14:09):
She was acting frantic. She wasn't frantic. She knew where
he was. Carrie. She led you right to her. No
one else saw her. It was all in act. The
real Karen Reid is the one joking and smiling and
smirking through the autopsy pictures. That's the real Karen Reid.

(14:35):
You know, she just criminally got away with it. But
is it going to be way after the Sevil case
when these witnesses wake up and realize they were fooled.
That's what I've been thinking about. I don't know about you.

(14:58):
And she saw him on along and I didn't.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Carrie quickly joins Karen on the lawn and the two
women perform.

Speaker 5 (15:06):
It's not only you didn't. Jen McCabe didn't. And no
one could see past their hand, front of their practically
are in front of their face that day. You can
barely see anything. Look at the look at the vision
out of the She recognizes John under a pile of
snow because she knew where she hit him, she knew

(15:28):
where she left him. She the alcohol doesn't touch the
sides with Karen read So I wanted to go through
my interview someone who is waking up and is publicly
saying he's full of this, Brendan Cain. He may be

(15:51):
returning to this podcast. He may be returning, may happen,
and I just wanted to go that's someone there was
John O'Keefe's friend since childhood. Thought we'd go through his
interview today with me. I thought it was enlightening. I
played it, I've clipped it on my channel, but I've

(16:13):
never gone through it with you. Guys, so I thought
that we'd do it together today. Welcome Brendan Kane.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
Goring, he Berna, how are you great?

Speaker 5 (16:29):
So for people who don't know, how did you meet
John O'Keeffe.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yes, Johnny and I grew up together actually on the
Saint Street in a suburb of Boston called Braintree, where
we went to school together our entire lives from nursery
school up through high school. Johnny went to Northeastern and
I went away to school in upstate New York. We
remained close all through college through adulthood. Wherever I lived

(17:00):
in New York for a number of years, lived in
Los Angeles for a number of years.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Wherever I was, Johnny would come visit.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
It was just one of those consistent I was very
lucky to have a consistent childhood friend for over forty years.

Speaker 5 (17:14):
And what was he like?

Speaker 4 (17:21):
Johnny was first and foremost hilarious.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
I mean, all the memories, whether it's selective or not,
are just us laughing about things stupid and serious. But
you know, people describe Johnny usually the same way. Unbelievably athletic.
He was a little bit older. He's a December baby,
so he was like he had like seven or eight
months on most of us, so he's taller than most
of us. As as he grew up, he always kept

(17:49):
the height advantage. But he was he's a really really
good basketball player. He's a good soccer player, a good
baseball player. He just one of those kids that was
just good at anything anything he did. But you know,
even even non organized sports we play, we'd have a
kind of your prototypical suburban activity is a lot of
street hockey, a lot of whiffle ball in.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
The backyards in our neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
But always just these are back in the days where
it was come home when the street lights come on, and.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
That's what we do.

Speaker 5 (18:18):
There's the thing, you know, there's John m'keef who always
wanted to be a police officer, never wanted to be
anything else, and was good at everything he put his
mind to or tried. It's hard to think that he's
going to be the one who's going to be murdered
by his psychopathic girlfriend or being a relationship with someone

(18:40):
who would have control over him. And he seemed like,
especially with his neatness, like someone who had it all together.
And also COVID helped with that too. You know by
the time that Karen we're going to talk about it

(19:03):
a little bit further. But you know, everybody was staying
away due to COVID, So really this relationship bloomed in
isolation mostly.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
You know, all summer.

Speaker 5 (19:19):
So I saw you, you know, you were on camera
a little bit on Court TV, and I thought, oh
my gosh, another hearing. I mean, what is this like
to from you know, that ridiculous verdict, to be back
in the courtroom again with Karen Reid. Were you expecting

(19:40):
her to walk in with her herd of lawyers.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
Yeah, we had heard rumbling. She had an enormous team.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
The experience overall was the equivalent of being forced to
watch a sequel to a movie and.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
You hated the original movie. So the kind of the.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
Surrealness of of walking back in there, and you know,
we've had a gap between the verdict and this three
four months where it's been really kind of nice getting back.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
I would say, it's so much worse than a movie
you didn't like. I don't think it's I don't I
think there's the trauma of it. There's a way that
you push it away from it feels unreal that you're
at your friend's murder trial that you went to twice,
and now you're back again at the civil trial. But

(20:32):
the trauma just doesn't go away. I mean, it's much
worse and all I would think watching a movie. I mean,
that was John's line, it's only a movie. It's only
a movie. Like I guess he told himself when things
got really bad, to sort of stay in control of
his emotions and disassociate, but to fully taking the horror

(20:54):
that this woman has met herself rich and famous off
of her murder of your friend.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Horrific normal, just being able to kind of focus on
the family and not allowing people that have victimized us
to take more of our time. And now somehow I'm
sitting back in the courtroom to support the family, uh,
with the person that killed my friend sitting five feet

(21:21):
away and her army of attorneys. So it's it's it's
hard to describe. It's still doesn't honestly, just surreal doesn't
do it justice, It's not.

Speaker 5 (21:30):
It's just did you ever think that this would be
the I mean, did you, I mean, did you ever
think that that, yeah, that that you'd be doing something
like this.

Speaker 4 (21:40):
I mean no, no, God, gosh, No.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
I mean, you know, bad things happened to people, good
people every day, but this one thinks a little bit different.
It wasn't just the loss of a phenomenal brother son, friend.
It's it's the the pain that came with everything that
was created by by the murderer.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
You know, after she she killed Johnny and.

Speaker 5 (22:04):
So and what Alan Jackson sitting there? Were her uh,
were her supporters? There was turtle Boy there. What was
the atmosphere like in front of the courthouse.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
Yes, so I did get a.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
Little bit of a different vibe than the Denham the
Deadham courthouse. Everyone always described it as like a very
old historical building. It's it's not a nice building inside.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
It's old.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
The Plymouth uh facility that we're right, yesterday much newer.
Everything was clean. I did see that they brought a
couple at least two of the court officers over from
Plymouth that were familiar with the circus.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
The thing that I don't know what I was expecting
driving down there.

Speaker 5 (22:45):
You mean from Denham. They brought them over from Denham
to Plymouth.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah, Denham, yeah, yeah, so so this one guy in particular,
So I don't know if that's just a normal court
officer rotation or if they did that intentionally. But you know,
driving down there, I didn't really know what to expect.
It's like, this is a civil case. I mean, I
can kind of understand how a cult get behind supporting
somebody in a criminal case because their freedom is at stake.

(23:10):
But as I pulled into the parking lot and there's
forty or heavy people outside there to support what Karen
keeping her money, I'm not exactly sure.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
Well, Karen's pled poor, and I mean she says she's poor,
and you know, I was thinking about why she's living
in her parents' house. So obvious, I mean a little
bit like, oh, Jay, I would wouldn't be surprised if
she moves to Florida for this reason. It seems like

(23:42):
she wants to be around her psychopathic deranged you know,
I don't know if he's deranged. It's dangerous for sure,
father Daddy Reid. But why she's living with her parents,
It's so obvious why she's living with her parents because

(24:03):
she sold her house and she wants to say that
she has no assets. What she's done with that film
money and that book money? On her story lol, on
her I mean her made up fantastical story, a little
like Amanda Knox Is fantastical story that she just spun
on Hulu. He's so outrageous. I gotta talk about that

(24:25):
very soon.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Boy.

Speaker 5 (24:28):
That's over the top and just one lie after the next.
But it's because she doesn't want to. What she's done
with it, I would think is since the finance professor,
the adjunct finance professor, I'm sure has hid her money
away in a way that if there's a judgment against her.
So if she wins a judgment in this civil case,

(24:49):
they can't take her house. They can't take her I mean,
that's why you would move to Florida's because the laws
are very good. That's why OJ moved to Florida. Because
the laws are very good for civil criminal defendants who
have judgments against them. You know, you're convicted civilly. She

(25:13):
doesn't want any of her money taken away from her,
so I'm sure she's hid her money. My point is,
I'm sure she's hid in her money and moved her
money around in a way so if they come after
her for money, she's going to cry poor. Everything that
she attains can be can be possessed by the o'keefes

(25:39):
if she loses civilly. That's also why she's looking. We
haven't seen any of those Hold on one second, sorry,
I just had a cough, So guess we haven't seen
any of those bull suits that she's promised against et cetera,

(26:08):
et cetera, et cetera. I mean the problem is saying that,
you know, you know, violating your rights. I mean, I
guess maybe you could say Proctor violated her rights by
sharing details of her case to his friends. I mean,
you know, maybe maybe, But she's also wants this. This

(26:33):
is what her lawyer says. Her South African lawyer, Siegelman,
isn't that his name, wants to sue Buchanic et cetera,
et cetera for that same thing violation of rights. But
I mean, usually it has to do with false imprisonment
when you get acquitted of a chart charge like this,

(26:58):
and she was convict of OUI, so they had every
right to put her in jail. So I don't know
where exactly she's going with all those lawsuits. It has
been two plus weeks and we have seen neither head
nor tails of them, So maybe that was just a bluff.
I have no idea are they coming, are they not

(27:19):
Coming's Karen Reid working on them? I have no idea
her and her seven lawyers working on them. I would
think that she's looking to pick up I mean, this
is the end of the innocence fraud grift. So where
you sue civilly everyone who's got you and tried to
hold you accountable for your crime and claim that you

(27:41):
were wrongfully accused and walk away with a big or
wrongfully convicted and her case, wrongfully accused and walk away
with a big civil multimillion dollar civil payout. But does
she even want to do that because parts of that
if she loses this, then judgment goes to the keys.

Speaker 6 (28:05):
I mean.

Speaker 5 (28:10):
That the big piece of it goes to the keifs well,
it's a.

Speaker 4 (28:14):
Free Karen Reid can't be the motto anymore.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
I'm not exactly sure what they're saying. I've kind of
intentionally ignored most of what they've said over the last
three or four months. I don't really care. We lost
the criminal court. We don't get another bite at the apple.
So I've tried to kind of mentally come to the
acceptance phase on that piece. But to see these people
taking time. I mean I had to request time off

(28:40):
to be able to go to support my murdered friend's family.
But there's forty diffifty people with nothing else to do
but go to a civil trial on behalf of a
woman that wouldn't speak to them if she if she
had never murdered Johnny.

Speaker 5 (28:55):
Well, yeah, is she a kind of snobby person personally
or you think is it?

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Is it?

Speaker 5 (29:05):
Why do you say she wouldn't speak to them?

Speaker 4 (29:07):
They're beneath her she I mean, you can she she was.
She was high end or high maintenance, however you want
to look at it. But you know, but she was
big on on on.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Brands and labels and and style and fashion, and I
mean you could take the best example is in the
first trial, Johnny's niece intentionally wore a pair of sunglasses
on the stand, and at first I didn't know what
she was doing. And as it turns out, there were
like six hundred dollars sunglasses that Karen left behind when
she fled the murdercy. So you know, again, six hundred

(29:41):
dollar sunglasses, great if you can do it, but that
was that that to me kind of epitomizes she she
fancies herself to be kind of a higher echelon, higher societal.

Speaker 5 (29:53):
So Turtle Boy tried to spin a narrative as always
with this and say that the family or the and
or Brendan Kaine. So if you're tuning in late, we're
listening to my interview with John O'Keefe's friend from childhood
to when he was murdered, forty years of friendship, Brendan Kine.

(30:19):
And so this is the narrative that Turtle Boy tried
to spend. So he just talked about how Caylie, John
O'Keefe's niece, wore Karen Read sunglasses on her head when
she testified the first trial. Because she's as a teenager,
that testimony, because she was a minor, was hidden from
the public. We only got reports of what she said

(30:42):
via the news, and I think some of the audio
was leaked and then removed, I believe, But that was
something that she was a teenage ish move that you
do when you're an angry teenager and you've been traumatized

(31:03):
losing your mother so young, then your father, then your
uncle gets murdered, and the woman who does it is
your uncle's girlfriend who you watched her give you the
silent tea treatment, she ran hot and cold. She tried

(31:24):
to buy your affection various gifts. That was a source
of argument. John o'keef tried to kick her out of
the home right before he was killed Karen, and Karen
wouldn't leave assisted on staying. John o'keeff was telling her

(31:45):
that the relationship had run its course. And even in
the last text messages between them, you say, I'm just
not into fighting. We've been fighting all the time, time
for for months. Out was enough.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Figure, even before she got all the notoriety she's received
from from this event.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
Yeah, and back to all these supporters, you know, they're
happy to line her pocket she's always crying for. But
most of these lawyers I would think are working pro
bono for her.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
I would think, I mean, do we know, I have
no idea.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
I mean just just it's just for the visibilities and
for the promotional value of being on that team. I mean, frankly,
it was. It was bordaline comical as the lawyers introduced
themselves in front of that judge yesterday. Where when it
got to the sixth and seventh lawyers, even they were
they couldn't start, They couldn't not smile because you know
on behalf of misread, on behalf of miss read on

(32:50):
behalf of miss read. Then that there was two extra
lawyers that came and fit at the table that were
in the front row, the front pew, if you will,
uh that when they were on there were introducing themselves,
induced themselves like with a smile, like even we realize
how ridiculous this is.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
That that's what I got out of it.

Speaker 5 (33:09):
And were you surprised, I mean, just going back quickly
through the criminal trial, were you surprised that her behavior
was just never called out? The eye rolling, the the
kind of smiling and laughing even I mean, I think
the New York Post called it out when she was
looking at the autopsy pictures, she was smirking through them.
I mean, are you surprised that she still has so

(33:31):
many supporters after the way she behaves in court? I mean,
I am.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Off of surprise, just because I'm not sure what to
expect of society these days.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
To be honest, there's always going to be a there's
always going to be a subset of folks that are
looking to fill their time.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
The way I've always looked at that is is this
this Uh, this notion of a third place, that people
need a third place to have a complete life. And
some people join a book club and some people do
recreational basket ball. This is this is this group of
people's third place, and it's a very low barrier to entry.
It's put on a pink shirt and hold a sign

(34:08):
and you're part of a club. So from that perspective,
but you know a place to find belonging. It's a
strange place to find belonging, but I guess I can
try to guess what the psychology is there.

Speaker 5 (34:23):
And also you never I mean, because I mean we
have we're bound by the facts. They never change. But
with this, it's their conspiracy mindset is a part of
innocence fraud, and they can keep going with these theories
for forever with very little evidence. They'll never come to
anything they can test. They can test all these items

(34:44):
and get incomplete. I mean, this is what the thing
I've noticed about innocent fraud campaigns is they go on
forever because they can go a zillion different directions and
it constantly can keep their mind preoccupied and off their
bo life. So they'll find they'll test items that they're

(35:05):
totally unrelated to the crime, or that they know are irrelevant,
and they find some DNA and they'll go down that
on that DNA, you know, forever trying to look for
the match. Or they'll use incomplete DNA and say that's
proof of an alternative suspect, meaning it'll never be matched

(35:28):
to anyone because there's not enough markers. I mean this manipulation.
The Innocent Project was started by Barry Shackt after he
was a lawyer defending O. J. Simpson, and he recognized
that no one really understood DNA, that it seemed like
such strong proof of an alternative suspect. So that if

(35:54):
the DNA wasn't there in a murder case, if the killer,
often the killer doesn't leave DNA, it's not a guarantee
that you're going to leave DNA at the scene, or
that you'll leave or or DNA at the scene is

(36:16):
related to the murder. But the public doesn't think that way.
They think any DNA found at the scene is going
to be related to the murder or it has some
kind of time stamp. It just does not work that way.
So he realized that he could grift using DNA, and
that's how the Innocence Project started, and you'd have to really,

(36:39):
you know, encourage everyone to dig into the transcripts trial
transcripts of the cases that they represent and look at
these cases for yourself that there's some one is more
guilty than the next. Kind of conspiracy that's just around.
It's like a car constant dangling carrot in front of

(37:02):
a donkey. You know, the conspiracy will be solved any
minute now, just any minute, any minute, you know. And
we heard in this case, you know, the Feds are coming,
the Feds are coming. And then when the Feds weren't coming,
you know, Karen Reid sort of had to prop them
up and say, no, they're really coming. They're just lying
about it. They're really coming. Oh no, it is closed,
it is closed. They found nothing, but yeah maybe they can.

(37:24):
Oh well, that's a conspiracy in itself. They cover that up.
It's a cover up on a cover up on a
cover up. I mean.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
Forever on this.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah, it's perpetual, it's it's it just just with a
little bit more of your financial support, we might be
able to finally solve this.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
You know, it's a grift.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
It's a grift. And frankly, i've learned a lot about
this topic listening to you. This is clearly my first
experience with Edison's fraud. I happened to hit really close
to home the first time I have dealt with it.
I'm still kind of processing some of it, frankly, but yeah,
it is a they can they can keep us going
for a very very long time, and evidenced by some
of the statements made by her counsel in court yesterday,

(38:07):
they intend to keep it going in a very specific manner.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
So get to that in a second. But did you
see the film of Alan Jackson running around? So before
we get into into Alan Jackson in the basement, when
another sort of an odd talking point that people used

(38:30):
to make excuses for the amount of innocence fraud media
we have in this country is they'll say even I
used to say it myself, I don't say it anymore,
you know, is that it's not a very good story.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Is that.

Speaker 5 (38:50):
That guy accused of the crime did it. End of story,
and he and he got convicted. It's a much more,
you know, exciting story. A guy accused convicted of a
crime didn't do it. But I really, you know, these
innocence fraudsters it doesn't matter how many, how much media

(39:13):
has been created. So let's say, well, there's only one
way you can go is that you know, he's already
been convicted and we've heard all the you know, read
all the journalism about how he's guilty, So you have
to go another way. No, it doesn't matter how many
people I've already written about written their own innocence fraud narrative.

(39:34):
Do you know what I'm saying? So if you have, well,
I mean, how many documentaries do we have on the
West Memphis three, over and over and over again, going
in different angles. People can't get enough of this. It's
like I always say, it's like crack to Americans. They

(39:55):
cannot get enough of it, the idea. So it's making
murderer one, making a murderer two. New documentary on Adnan
say ed. We've had a documentary on Amanda Knox, and
then Amanda Knox's is going to write her own movie
script and we're going to get an actress to act

(40:15):
out her fantastical imaginings, you know, based on a truth
what really happened to him? You know, it's so far
from the truth, just one lie after and the next.
So it's it's because it's the money side of this.

(40:36):
It's the ideal. We love the idea that our justice
system is so unfair that you know, the big mistakes
are happening all the time. Our media can't wait to
just put this out. It's not that psychopaths walk amongst us.
We're happy to admit that there's like, you know, serial

(40:59):
killers and maybe like this very small element of very
very dark people that you know, just our killers, and
there's something really off and dark. But not the person
with the mask with a public mask, not that you know,
what are the chances says We like to They like

(41:20):
to say, oh, this person's always maintained their innocence. Yeah,
like every other guilty killer. How many killers stand up
and say I did it and throw themselves on the
mercy of the court that get huge innocence, get huge
media attention. Not many, not many. I mean we watched

(41:41):
when Coburger, you know, quieted down, was when he said
I did it. Before that, we had a dozen YouTube
channels talking about, you know, how he didn't do it.
Now it's just like they want to put him in
this category of of of a kind of serial killer

(42:04):
now to keep selling this, But we don't like the
idea that these people, these dark personalities, these psychopaths, walk
amongst us and fool us. That's not the narrative we like.
It's it's is it too scary, I don't know, around
the basement of thirty four fair View and they're going to,

(42:28):
you know, pull up the carpets here, there's this, there's
that you know, they're they're running around. I mean there
they can grift off of that for forever. I mean,
you know, the DNA the carpet. I mean, what we'd
like to think is that there's some kind of like
specific DNA, but I mean we leave DNA everywhere everywhere,

(42:51):
you know, so I mean they can keep looking for
this for forever. So yesterday, back yesterday, so very early
into the hearing. I won't force anyone to We went
over it twice yesterday. I think that's more more than enough.
But yesterday, very early on into the hearing, Karen Reid's

(43:14):
South African lawyer announces that they want to join in
all these people. And Karen Reid is actually the victim,
she's not the defendant. She wants to be a planeiff
in this, and she wants to sue a list as
long as your arm of people were. What was your
reaction to that moment in court?

Speaker 4 (43:37):
And nothing they do surprises me at this point.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
My again, my theory on it, as I was sitting
there listening to it was just kind of more Alan
Jackson type style that they're trying to intimidate these people
from from doing anything in this case to try to
try to try to confuse the situation misdirection yet again,

(44:00):
and let's combine this with a with a basic uh,
a civil trial, and and here's how we're gonna do it.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
To me, it's again.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Perpetuating that grift, uh and making innocent people the villains
in their mind. From from what I have not been
over to Canton recently, but from what I understand that
they still stand in front of the police station every
Friday with signs, and they still harass that pizza uh,
Chris Albert's pizza joint on like Thursday nights.

Speaker 4 (44:29):
I think they stand across the street with signs. It's
it's it's shocking that these folks.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Have nothing else to do with the actual motivation is
But yeah, as you had surmised, it has continued.

Speaker 5 (44:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's not going to be over anytime soon.
This as long as you know, people are still talking
about Karen Reid, this grift will go go on and
go on and go on. You you know, sometimes they
go on for decades and decades. I mean, we started

(45:05):
out this episode talking about Jeffrey MacDonald. That's I mean,
it really didn't end till twenty and eighteen when the
Supreme Court refused to said he couldn't argue any anymore.
Twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen around then, couldn't argue any anything more.

(45:28):
But Karen Reid. I mean, we were just we're just
at the beginning of this. We have the book to
come out, the movie to come out, the civil trial.
This is not dying down. So you know, I talk
about public mass at a time when people are waking

(45:51):
up to Aiden Carney and some people are seeing him
for the manipulative, psychopathic liar that he is, and others,
you know, as he's you know, trying to distract attention

(46:17):
from his lies. And you know, he said there's no tape,
he didn't tape Karen Reid. He's calling the people that
said that he did tape Karen Reid's his phone calls
with Karen Reid a liar. Bring the phone call. Then
the phone call clips are leaked, and now he's making

(46:37):
other people the scapegoat to distract attention away from his lies.
Something he may have learned from Karen Reid. That's certainly
the way she did her defense. Let's look at Jen McCabe.
Let's look at the Alberts. Let's look at Brian and
then Brian Higgins in the second Trial's never even really suspect.

(47:02):
Carrie Roberts became for a minute and a half a suspect.
Isn't it interesting? I'll say it again that Karen Reid,
who claims she's been falsely accused of this crime, isn't
looking for the real killer. She knows it's a joke first,

(47:23):
you know, if you watch the introduction, she said she
knows who did it. Then they don't know who did it.
But she's not curious. She's not looking to get justice.
They always say they're about justice for John O'Keefe. They're
not looking to I mean, she's not looking. She's busy

(47:43):
selling her her life rights and her to her story
to Hollywood and to the publishing world. Zero percent of
her time has been spent trying to quote unquote solve
this crime. Because she knows it is solved, she knows

(48:04):
she's responsible. She just has to fish out this idea
that it's someone else. But she'll have these free Karen Readers.
They're going to be the last people to figure out
that they've been fooled. She will have them with this
dangling carrot, like a carrot dangling in front of a donkey,

(48:25):
going forever for this, and they never think, well, what
happened to the last suspect that we were sure did it?
Oh it's not Jen McCabe. Oh it's not the one
of the Alberts. I mean, they didn't even bother arguing

(48:49):
Colin Albert. They weren't allowed. The fact that they were
allowed to develop a third party suspect in the either
one of these trials, which is essentially because we had
such a weak judge let them argue third party culprit
in the weakest way possible. Fact that they were allowed
to even develop that, which means argue it in this

(49:11):
case just as a testament to what a terrible judge Canonius.
You were not supposed to be allowed to bring something
into court of which there is no evidence they were
supposed to develop evidence. What evidence is there that anyone
else did this crime? I just don't think this is ever.

(49:38):
I mean, she's gonna this is Karen Read's new identity.
You know, she said she wants to you know, she really,
I mean, she studied this movement and she know. I mean,
she's going by the playbook. I said she would sue
Civilly if she got a favorable verdict in any way.

(49:58):
But you know, there is a kind of odd thing
that nobody's talking about is that she was convicted of
driving drunk. So when she wants to say that her
civil rights were violated, it's a little bit of a
problem there, you know. I mean, she was driving drunk
and she was convicted of it. People forget that. So

(50:21):
I don't know how she's going to say her civil
rights were violated. How does that work, Brendan, I mean,
I don't know. My point is that she's saying that
she was wrongfully confined by being put in jail before
she was bailed out. That's what usually those suits are about,

(50:42):
is wrongful confinement. I mean, maybe she has an issue
with Proctor sharing information on an investigation very but most
of that was I believe in the public domain, so
I don't know, or a personal information some of it
it wasn't. I mean, maybe she can get him on that.

(51:05):
I don't know. But as far as Buchanic, I don't
think she has any claim and anyone else that's on
the list as long as your arm of people she
wants to sue. So I don't think she's gonna get
very far with this civil suit. But the point is

(51:26):
to attach it to this case so that she can
be both a plaintive and a defendant, but a victim
and a defendant right in her own case, and really
mix it all up, just the way she's always done it.
Mix it all up, bring in other personalities, mix it

(51:46):
all up, deflect attention away from herself.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
No idea, No, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Mean, I guess it was ever a time I was
thankful she got convicted on anything. It would be now
because I agree, you know, she just and we other
people asked the bottom line, she was found not guilty.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
That doesn't mean she was innocent.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
We know all the you know, in hindsight, all the
issues with the jury, and you know, did Hank do
a great job with the presentation of the case. I
thought he did a good job, but we lost that case.
At the jury selection, we did not have a chance,
not a chance. No.

Speaker 5 (52:25):
But even with that jury, I mean, you look at
those jurors, I mean, so you know, this is where
Turtle voice as well. There was like twelve jurors and
they were all totally untouched by this innocence fraud campaign.
I didn't poison the jury pool at all. It's not
like we had a huge crowd of people screwed outside
the courthouse, all putting pressure on the jury till the

(52:50):
till as they were deliberating.

Speaker 4 (52:51):
Was it like that.

Speaker 5 (52:53):
It was like just totally in a vacuum. They just
looked at the case totally, like like completely untouched by
the huge amount of innocence fraud propaganda and the fact
that they could. And it wasn't like we had a
jury foreman who tried to get rich and other jurors

(53:16):
who tried to springboard careers off of being a jurors
on this case, little mini careers, one nightmare duror after
the next. I thought some of the first jurors, I mean,
one joint Karen Reid's legal team was pretty awful. Alison
my father's Alibi. Hi, Alison, I've been thinking about you

(53:40):
and your mother's case, Nancy Galvanni, the cold case of
Nancy Gilvannie. It's hope things are going well with that.
Give me a let me give me an update as
soon as you know anything. Thanks so much. Check out
her channel. My Father's Alibi backed to Brendan Kane. If

(54:06):
you're just tuning in, we're listening to Brendan my interview
with Brenda Kane. John O'Keefe's childhood friend and friend till
his when he was clipped by Karen Reid in her
Lexus and left to die in the second worst snowstorm

(54:27):
that that area of Massachusetts had ever seen. But this
jury was some of the most I mean just completely
you know, had criminals in their family, were just like totally.
But even they couldn't fully absolve Karen Reid. They still
convicted her of drug driving, I mean as much as

(54:48):
they wanted to with the My point was that they
were partial to criminals. That there were people in that
kay who were cheers on that case, who had tweeted
innocent fraud narratives, hated the government, hated the police, were

(55:09):
very familiar with Karen Reid's innocent fraud campaign. Pressure of
the entire uh you know, huge massive people outside saying
free Karen Reid. Totally absolve her. They couldn't totally absolve her.
They're like, look, she was driving drunk, you know, and
they could have given her two years in prison, which
I still don't understand why Hank Brennan didn't at least

(55:32):
even as a token with Canoni, You're not going to
get far. She's no innocent foster judge in my opinion.
But I mean, you know, you're not gonna get far
with that, but at least as a as a toke,
like as some kind of token that you're you know,
he just completely just put his tail between his legs
and folded at the end there. I don't understand why

(55:54):
he didn't push for two years in prison, which was
which she could have gotten just for the drunk on
the drunk dry being charged because it relates resulted in
the death. So yeah, you know, once again, it looks
like Karen Reid has like a mass these lawyers, has

(56:15):
started early on defending herself in this civil case. It
seems like way ahead. And once again we're looking at
the in this case. It's the plane of side a
little bit flat footed. They didn't have any of the
any of the paperwork. They haven't started deposing people. What

(56:38):
do you feel, how do you feel? Do you know
anything about her? The plane of legal team.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
Just Mark Diller.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Mark Diller was around sporadically throughout the criminal trials, and frankly,
I thought he they did a pretty.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Good job yesterday.

Speaker 5 (56:56):
I did too, but.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
I it's just par for the course, though it's more
it's essentially the position of the defense yesterday was springing,
springing things on the court again, I mean getting no
paperwork has been filed.

Speaker 4 (57:12):
The judge said that three times.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
This is like a pre trial kind of he said,
tracking a tracking report to kind of lay out the
timeline and the range of when a trial could happen.
He said that the trial he did, court's ready to
go in the spring, but clearly listening to what us
both sides said yesterday, there's.

Speaker 4 (57:32):
No way that's gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
So this will get dragged out yet again, maybe until
early twenty twenty seven, I think was stated yesterday. But
I think I think Attorney Diller did a pretty strong
job yesterday. I at least I did not know what
to expect. I'd met him in person, but I've never
seen him in court. But I thought he was pretty strong.

Speaker 5 (57:53):
I thought so too. And why is why is John's family?

Speaker 4 (57:59):
So?

Speaker 5 (58:00):
I mean my understanding is that I think we were
talking yesterday and you said they don't need the money.
They don't need the money. Why are they putting themselves
through this?

Speaker 4 (58:09):
I mean yeah, I mean yeah, the suit itself again
like that there should be a financial uh recourse for
you know, for the loss of a of a son
and a father figure and a guardian.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Uh So, don't getting on that side, but I think
it's frankly, I think it's more important that on some level,
in some way, even if it's in civil court kind
of akin to OJ, they want they still want justice.
They want her to be held accountable in some official
capacity for what she did. And you know, we we
know what happened the first two times in the in
the criminal efforts, and this is the kind of the

(58:47):
last shot at getting anything quote unquote officially.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
In court where she is found responsible. I think that's
the most important.

Speaker 5 (58:55):
Yeah, and this is not unusual. I mean, this is
the playbook of any of any since frauds forever. I mean,
it's not that she's not only not taking responsibility, she's
saying she's a victim. She's the victim. And she told
Natalie Burnschneider WEWIKI that she erased all of John's pictures.
I mean, she's trying to literally erase John O'Keefe from

(59:19):
the face of the earth. So I mean badly that
everybody has to go through this.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
You know, again, she's done a good job. But you know,
people will never speak ill of the dead.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
But I will tell you that the the size of
the network of folks that that legitimately genuinely loved John O'Keeffe, well,
she can do.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
Whatever she wants to that we will never lose his memory.
He will always There are so many people.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
There's constant discussions about what else can we do with
a golf tournament. We're talking about doing something on December eighth,
would have been his fiftieth birthday.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
We're talking about that. You know, this is not the
support for the O'Keefe family, not waned.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
The one observation I wanted to share with you from
yesterday was, you know, obviously it's a it's a media
circus in debt Um during a criminal trial.

Speaker 5 (01:00:10):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
And the one thing I did expect to see what
there was far there was there were no reporters in
Plymouth yesterday. None there were, I mean the TV reporters.
So there's nobody interviewing outside. There were folks in the
there were pressed in the in the courtroom, but it
wasn't the kind of outs. There's no cameras outside, you know,

(01:00:33):
struggling with each other to try to get.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
A quote from someone.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
I think they did interview Diller on the way out,
but it was just far less of a circus than Debtum.

Speaker 5 (01:00:43):
So were there just few the no TV crews just.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
When we walked in there were no TV crews.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
I believe the TV crews had shown up later in
the afternoon and because I believe I saw Diller get
interviewed on the way.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
Out, but it was not.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
It was it was a frack action of what I
don't think there's any There's definitely no national coverage. Remember
in data with the civil civil case, you had Dateline
there and ABC National and NBC, and there was I
saw the Channel five that the ABC affiliate in Boston.
They had a van in the parking lot but that

(01:01:19):
was the only media vehicle I saw, so it did
seem to be muted. I know, as you've educated me
that the grift can go on forever, but the news
cycle does roll on, and there has to be care
and read fatigue at some point, right, at least from
the from the mass population perspective.

Speaker 5 (01:01:38):
As long as she can make money. I mean, speaking
of making money, I want to get back to the
family in the second. But I mean, what did you
think of her selling her storye They're well getting movie
rights and selling books. There must be care and read fatigue, right,
I don't know. You know, you think what just when
you think it dies down, it comes back again, you know.

(01:02:05):
And I noticed that people support one inness and fraud
case and it's not going anywhere, and they never give up.
So sometimes you think like it's it's just gone. They'll
come back with something else. It's like a monster you
can't kill. So right now it looks like Stephen Avery's

(01:02:28):
pretty beat, but you never know when they might come
back with something else. Legally, you know, because these criminals
never stops, well does the courts allow them to go,
They'll go after you know. This is usually we're talking
about post conviction, and that Brendan made a good point.

(01:02:52):
You know, why does her, why does her? Why do
your supporters care if she spends it a you know,
gives a tiny amount of money to the o'keefs because they,
for the Karen Reid supporters, the keefs don't exist as
real victims in this case. They're happy to disparage them,

(01:03:18):
ghoest them entirely. There to Free Karen readers, they're you know,
there only can be one victim, and that's Karen Reid.
So according to them, the she owes the o'keefs, nothing,
no one suffered. According to Free Karen Reid. You know
the way the Karen Reid and her family has and

(01:03:39):
how traumatizing for Karen Reid. Remember how traumatizing for Karen
Reid to have to sit through and listen to the
O'Keefe family lawyer talk. That's what the Free Karen readers
are saying. I mean, we saw Karen Reid after that hearing.

(01:04:04):
Anybody remember Karen Reid after this earring, laughing it up
for their lawyers, jokeing around. There's no trauma. She wasn't
traumatized when she looked at the autopsy pictures. She's not
traumatized listening to the plaine of lawyer the O'Keefe. She
doesn't feel badly for the o'keef. She's happy to have

(01:04:29):
her mouthpiece call them name, scream at them. And she's
never publicly told her supporters to respect the o'keefs she could.
You know, it all works and it's all helpful to her.

(01:04:57):
I mean, let's look at Karen Reid being traumatized. Here's
Karen being traumatized, so traumatized after listening to the ok
family lawyer, right.

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
I think we're a little.

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):
Uh, cracking jokes, cracking jokes. No one says that her
affect is off. This is all concerning her murdered boyfriend.
Even if we're the sake of argument, though, I think
it's obvious that Karen reads the one responsible and there's

(01:05:42):
no one else and uh, no one else will ever
be convicted for this crime because they had one chance
to convict the killer or be even indicted for this crime.
Even if, okay, we don't see this affect, this is

(01:06:03):
not the O'Keefe's affect. Anyone else who is around John
O'Keefe affect going into court dupers de delight. She got
away with it walking back and know her demeanor is
not And don't tell me that everyone reacts differently. Killers

(01:06:25):
all seem to have this glib, super sutrificial charm and
happiness around uh this issue of person close to them's
murder is that this poor Karen I just hated watching her.

(01:06:53):
Have to listen to the O'Keefe family talk about a
uh an orphan. It's been orphaned. Mothers died all before
she ever turned sixteen. Her mother died, her father died,

(01:07:14):
and then her uncle was murdered. Oh good, she's not
the victim. It's Karen Reid. It's Karen Reid. How dare
she have to have her lawyers paid for he be
made into the queen of Massachusetts and be made very
rich off of her murder? What's trauma? What trauma she's

(01:07:36):
going through? Poor Karen Reid? He could be you really
really right back to Brendan Kyne's interrea, this is like ridiculous,
these interviews with Karen Reid. Right's to her story. So

(01:07:57):
we're gonna get the Karen Reid movie. In addition, we.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
Fully expected it, We fully expected it on whenever she
can get whatever project she can get money for to
tell her fictitious story.

Speaker 4 (01:08:14):
We figured she would.

Speaker 5 (01:08:16):
And was Turtle Boy there yesterday.

Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
I didn't see him.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
I didn't look for him either, but I did not
see him. It was it was it was a much
from what I again, it was a quick glance. I
tried to just focus on what I focused on, which
is what's going on in the courtroom. But it was
an older demographic yesterday. I would say median age of
her supporters is probably mid sixties. I didn't see all

(01:08:41):
those young folks that happened to happened to correlate with
crowds on demand dates. I didn't see a single I
didn't see a single.

Speaker 4 (01:08:52):
Person under sixty. So I mean, maybe that's whether they
have nothing else to do.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:09:00):
Yeah, I mean you would think. I mean, it's demanding
getting to the court and everything. I just have some
thank you. If you don't want me to thank you publicly,
just let me know. Here's the people who donated via
venmo to the channel. Jan says, Karen Reid and Donna

(01:09:28):
Wendy hold on one second. Proud, They're proud, proud of
your work. Thank you very much. And Marcy Denton. Thank
you so much, Carol, thank you great job, she writes,

(01:09:58):
Jan and Diane Tammy, Aaron Scott, thank you all for
your donations via venmo. I appreciate it very much. If
you'd like to support the channel links, uh, you can
buy me a coffee. We hit the coffee people last episode. Uh,

(01:10:22):
if you'd like to buy me a coffee venmo, Patreon.
All great ways to support the channel links are in
the description of this in every episode. Speaking of I mean,
how is how is John's family holding up? Are they
Someone's asking about Paul specifically in the Irene is asking
about Paul. How are they doing?

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
I mean, the best I can say is that they're
doing the best they can under the circumstances. You know,
there's there's there's there's there are children to focus on,
which I think is a kind of a welcome distraction.

Speaker 4 (01:10:57):
But so you know, missus.

Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
O'keeps seeing no emotion of innocence. We've seen a lot
of emotion from Jenn McCabe. She's talking about John O'Keeffe
on the stand. Carrie Roberts, same thing. Choked up, had
to go to sitting. Remember her testimony.

Speaker 9 (01:11:15):
I had to go to the.

Speaker 5 (01:11:19):
Go to the church in the hospital and pray, traumatized
by what he looked like. And none of them jumped
on John O'Keeffe immediately and lifted up their shirt like
Karen Reid did. Everyone recognized that he was deceased, but

(01:11:40):
only Karen had no fear and jumped on him and
lifted up her shirt and lifted up his shirt and
jumped on him, didn't clear off his air, didn't even
dig his head out of the snow. All everything she
did was for herself. From the minute she woke up.
She got no help for John O'Keefe, which, if you've

(01:12:01):
been following true crime, is a sign of the person
that did it, person that calls nine to one one
asking for help for themselves and not for the victim.
It's a big red flag for the FBI. It's not
what makes me think she did it. It's just one piece.

(01:12:22):
It's all the evidence that all goes towards Karen Reid. Strangely,
you know, human behavior is on a spectrum of normalcy.
But strangely, you know, so you can be very stoic
or very hysterical. Karen Reid acted very hysterical. She was
able to pull it back in a second. Nobody ever

(01:12:50):
saw any tears from Karen Reid to this day. So
she's screaming, screaming people's names, Gary, Gary, Jen, Jen. Why
to keep you them in a fierce state, create a

(01:13:10):
chaos at the scene, and distract attention from her crime.
The reason Carrie Roberts and Jen McCabe stayed calm is
because when you're on a scene like that, first of all,
they're in shock. They're in real shock, they're in real trauma,

(01:13:31):
and they want John o'keef to get help. Everything they
did was to get him help or to help Karen
to be helpful. Everything Karen Reid did was to deflect

(01:13:52):
attention away from herself and act as if she was
in shock and surprise at the crime that she led.
Everyone right too. I mean, these prekar and read people,
you're going to be the last ones to know you're fooled.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Still the primary for Johnny's niece and nephew, and then
Paul has two beautiful nieces of his own, two beautiful
daughters of his own that are two of my favorite kids.

Speaker 4 (01:14:25):
To be completely honest with you, there's just awesome, awesome people.
All four of them.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
So then they're all very busy, they're all very active,
they'll play sports. So I think that that normal life
has has you know, it'll never return to where it
was prior to the murder, but I feel like they've there.
They've been able to do the best they can under
the circumstances and and and make things as normal as
possible for their kids.

Speaker 5 (01:14:53):
Okay, so Eva is asking, I can answer this, but
isn't that interesting that the kids that she was a mother,
her figure or a parental figure too. She's made no
contact with It's not Here's Brendan Kane. He's taking Patrick

(01:15:22):
to ballgames and being involved in his life. But Karen
Reid wants nothing to do with the o Kee families.
Never okay, she had to stay away order, but that's gone.
Never gotten in touch with them, never checked in with them,

(01:15:42):
never checked in with and never expressed her sorrow for
John o'keef's passing. Guys, think this is normal. I'm not
going to go through all of this, but just the

(01:16:03):
main dragon of this interview, excuse me if is if
the o'keefes when civil suit, can she still profit over
a movie and book deal?

Speaker 10 (01:16:14):
What do you know?

Speaker 4 (01:16:15):
About that Brendan, I think you know that's the son
of Sam Law.

Speaker 5 (01:16:19):
Right, So the Son of Sam laws were totally destroyed
by uh so I didn't explain this very well. I'm
going to move past this section, but I'll try try
to explain it more clearly right now, So, the Son
of Sam Law, when the book called Wise Guys by

(01:16:40):
Nick Poleggie wanted to be turned into a movie, which
it eventually was, and the move that movie was entitled Goodfellas,
and it was directed by Martin Scorsese with Robert de
Niro et cetera in that cast. So it was based

(01:17:01):
on the criminal career of Henry Hill, who was a
small time mob guy in New York and New Jersey
as active. They couldn't do it because of Son of
Sam laws. So the publishing company challenged those Son of

(01:17:23):
Sam laws and won. But even in states where they
haven't successfully challenged the Son of Sam laws, where those
Son of Sam laws still stand, they rarely get enforced.
They really are a.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
Like.

Speaker 5 (01:17:40):
So much of victims' rights sit as like a token
law to victims are victims, and victims families are treated
not half as well as criminals in their family and
are justice system.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
The whole decision made that. I think they'll ever get
any money out of her. I have no idea they
move things to offshore accounts. I mean, you know, she
and her father work with Fidelity. They're not they're not
dumb people. They know what to do with money.

Speaker 5 (01:18:14):
It's a really good point. This is why she's, like
I said before, sure she any money she gets, she's
moving around hiding, making sure that it can't be gotten
to by any kind of lawsuits. This is all the
things that oj Simpson did. This is how he ended
up in in prison. Is he was trying to steal back.

(01:18:38):
He says he had his Heisman, trophies and all this
stuff he says or whatever his sports memorabilia stolen from
him and he was stealing it back. But it's anytime
you point a gun at someone and say you you
can't leave, that's kidnapping legally, and the laws are very

(01:18:58):
strict in Nava where he did it. So that's why
he got so much time for that. But he was
looking for income for himself, income that couldn't be traced,
for other peoples to sell his memorabilia on the memorabilia

(01:19:19):
market with him as the seller, the silent seller. So
he did all sorts of things to hide his money.
And I'm sure Karen Reid's doing the same stuff, putting
it in different accounts, that it's really her money, but
different names attached to it. However you do it. She's

(01:19:41):
a finance whiz, I am not. I'm sure she, but
that is why she's not buying another home. If she
does buy another home, I would predict it would be
near her good friend. Oh my gosh, his name escapes me.
I can see her face. It was that you know,

(01:20:03):
attended the trial in Sarasota, Florida. True, she'll buy a
home near there, somewhere in Florida.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
So again, at this point I have I have the
most positive hopes that that, you know, as I did
for the last three and a half four years, but
my expectations are.

Speaker 4 (01:20:24):
Admittedly zero at this stage. We were failed by so
many layers of government and policing.

Speaker 5 (01:20:32):
And Ingrid Curtis is who I was thinking of. Sorry,
it just took me a minute. Ingrid Curtis a friend,
Ingrid Curtis, It's where I think she was going. When
she they were they had warrants out for her phones,
and they watched her phones go to to Florida, Sarasota,

(01:20:53):
Florida until the judge, and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Like, you know, even though we it's really tough because
we know what happened. We followed the evidence in an
objective fashion, and we did not get justice. So how
can I expect to get an objective jury in a
civil case that just got moved over one county when we,
frankly weren't able to get an objective jury twice in

(01:21:24):
a criminal case. So if I'm being reasonable and rational,
you know, I'll be there to support the family until
I'm dead. But my expectations are really low. I don't
I don't think people can deal with more disappointment.

Speaker 5 (01:21:38):
Right, expectations are down payment and disappointment. Have you heard that?

Speaker 9 (01:21:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:21:42):
Exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:21:45):
So yesterday there was kind of a remarkable back and
forth between the lawyers about Caley. I know you're closer
with Patrick. We'll talk about that in a second. But
saying that Callie cannot get is not do any any

(01:22:06):
kind of financial reward for pain and suffering. Because Karen
Reid didn't run over John O'Keefe in front of her,
I mean, and she hid her crime, and she and
I thought that the practice when Diller was strongest, he
had two really strong moments I thought in court. One
was when he talked about the relationship between Karen Reid.

(01:22:31):
Basically he was talking about innocent fraud and and Turtle
Boy and how how she's basically put pressure on the
courts from from outside and she's moved, you know, the
court of public opinion into the into our courts. And
the second was when he was talking about her going

(01:22:53):
back to John O'Keefe's home, not her home, sneak going
in like a I always say, sneaking in like a burglar,
and and starting to and what he said was a
plot and plan her cover up right there and in
his home where she's an uninvited guest at that point,
he didn't say, he said, come stay with us for

(01:23:14):
the weekend. It's going to be a storm. But he
didn't say, after you murder me, you're welcome to come
into my home and start to plan your cover up.
I mean, she's an uninvited guest at that point. The
fact that she hid her crime for hours is now
suddenly Cally's calle. Yeah, that's a good phrase, uninvited guest.

(01:23:37):
I would say she's a I would say a better
way of putting it is that she's a that she's
an intruder in his home, uninvited guest. I mean that's
that's says that she's a guest, I mean unwanted, unwanted guest.

(01:23:59):
She's an intruder in his home plotting at her murder?
Why didn't she go to her house? Can't be traumatized
because she wasn't informed till hours after. I thought that
was a remarkable, really probably pretty Stummach turning argument. How

(01:24:21):
did you feel listening to it?

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
Yeah, it was disgusting. I also did think that was
Dillar's strongest moment. The other piece that he made clear
was that you know, for better or for worse, over
the previous eighteen to twenty months, Karen had served as
some form of maternal figure in that household. She knew
full well what the kids had been through losing both

(01:24:44):
of their parents. So you know, Dealer's point that that
knowledge of you know, maybe fragility or having gone through
such trauma prior to her murdering her uncle is an
important facet where knowing that she's still woke her up
shook her awake and said, you know, he got hit
by a plow.

Speaker 4 (01:25:04):
He's dead.

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
Maybe I hit him with my car. Is the defense
assertion to me again is absurd to me. The only
I mean again, public sentiments one thing. But if if
the civil trial, which has the ability to get you know,
more people to actually see the truth. And you and
I have talked about the many examples of innocence fraud

(01:25:28):
in the past, and the fact that Amanda Knox is
still perpetuating, you know, and and all these other examples
of things that have been produced. Is not is not guilty,
doesn't mean innocent? That uh, that more people will finally
be able to see the truth. Like wait a minute,
and they missed that in the criminal trial and they
didn't know this, They didn't know that. And I frankly

(01:25:51):
Dealer made a couple of points yesterday that were really strong,
kind of underlined reiterations of things that have come up
in the criminal trial that make absolutely no sense.

Speaker 4 (01:26:02):
And it starts with her waking up Gayley.

Speaker 5 (01:26:06):
Right, And she goes into the room and she shakes
her awake, and she leaves what a horrible way to
be woken up. And then she comes in and she
says strangely, Karen Read's the only one who knew something
horrible had happened to John before anyone else. But I mean,
here's a Karen Reid had written aiden via you know

(01:26:30):
the mediator, Natalie bren Schneider a week You can listen
to her interview on my channel in the video section.
But she had written aiden. We had looked at Laura Sullivan,
the Sullivan sisters. You know Laura Sullivan is It was
on the Aruba trip and Karen Reid accused John O'Keefe

(01:26:53):
of kissing her younger sister by ten years, Marietta, on
that trip. But Karen Reid's writing, that's my beach bag
in front of that pig. So she's calling Laura Sullivan
a pig. And then she goes on to say his
John's family sucks. Please tell Turtle boy he will get

(01:27:16):
all the credit for my camp when this blows up.
And when I talk to Dateline next, can you tell
him that Laura Sullivan is not a friendly. She testified
against me. She's the fat ass in blue crying in
court while Jen McKay rubs her back. So that's some
of the not innocent. I mean, everyone's traumatized by this.

(01:27:44):
But Karen Reid, I mean, these people aren't. It's not
like I'm finding borderline cases. I mean, to me, these
are pretty overwhelming. How did you know microscopic pieces of
Karen's tail light end up embedded in John O'Keefe shirt.
I mean, there's there. They've not been able to prove
any kind of And also, I mean just the whole

(01:28:07):
timeline with the car already on the way to the
Sally part, when the third team's arriving and binding. Oh oh, Tina,
let's deal with you, Tina, Hold on, Tina, get your
The conclusion is it didn't happen, and the evidence shows otherwise.

(01:28:31):
So for how far the conclusion by ARCA? You say
it's ARCA. So are you saying that the witness that
lied on the stand about being paid the witness one
of two witnesses that communicated via signal and deleted all
the discovery material and that only got material from the

(01:28:54):
defense that lied about being paid by the defense and
said that they were impartial witnesses on the stand, so
they perjured themselves in the first trial, and that communicated
via the defense would be a signal on auto delete

(01:29:15):
that they had a They presented opinion that was consistent
with Karen Reid's defense. Isn't that a shocker? Isn't that
a shocker? Do you understand what a what a hired

(01:29:39):
gun is a hired gun for the defense Lapasada too, Strangely,
Arca presented a since we don't know John's position, also
where he was, exactly when his head it's hard to

(01:30:02):
prove but prove exactly what happened, but we do know
that microscopic pieces of John O'Keeffe's tail light were pulled
out of John O'Keeffe's shirt, and there was no opportunity
to plan any evidence in this case. The car was

(01:30:23):
Karen Reid's car was already on the way to the
sally Port when the third team arrived. Karen Reid's missing
tail light is on film that morning on the wellness check,
before anyone knew anything had happened to John O'Keefe, besides

(01:30:44):
Karen Reid pieces of Karen's tilight. I mean, you know,
there's no time to plant anything, So.

Speaker 3 (01:30:52):
Then I'll tell you this too, So Hank, Hank Brandan,
when I'm not using it. He went with apertures approach,
which okay. But following the first trial, to his credit
Adam Walley, there was a there's a core of us
that were court quite a bit, you know, fifteen to
twenty of us were in rotation, and uh, mainly Johnny's
family and three or four of us closest friends and.

Speaker 5 (01:31:15):
And but one person did see something but didn't recognize
it as a body. You know, Julie Nagel saw something
and thought it was odd, but you're not looking for
a body on the lawn. But there was one person
who did see something when no one else did. Karen

(01:31:37):
Reid led everyone back to John o'q's body.

Speaker 3 (01:31:49):
A couple of them, a couple of our buddies are
actually lawyers, so they had even better perspective. But as
we sat through and listened to every word of the
trial after the first trial and the hung jury, Adam
Lalley had asked us, you know what, what what do
you guys have for us? Like we're willing to listen,
And I'm fairly vocal. I said, I'll go.

Speaker 4 (01:32:06):
I said what they hadn't done in the.

Speaker 3 (01:32:07):
First trial, which was the the I believe still the
contention of the defense, which is that she cracked her
taillight on Johnny's traverse backing out in that infamous court
TV ring video where she bumped the bumper.

Speaker 4 (01:32:20):
There was never in the first trout Trooper, how do.

Speaker 5 (01:32:24):
You plant microscopic pieces of tail eight? How do you
plant that again? It's microscopic pieces of tail.

Speaker 4 (01:32:33):
Eight kind of the bumpers. There was never a pictures videos.

Speaker 3 (01:32:38):
We get a picture and some video to show that
that's not possible, and to Lally's credit, two days later
we did that. We brought Johnny's traverse down to a
State Police Barracks parking lot and we recreated the lexus
backing out from both angles. Frankly, because the the right side,

(01:32:59):
the right side of the tail light was gone.

Speaker 5 (01:33:02):
Gena, I've been bit by a dog. The dog had
no lower jaw. They couldn't make any kind of patterns
or there's no dog d day and they couldn't actually
shown any patterns that resemble the dog. A witness who

(01:33:28):
volunteered herself to the defense who wanted to start a
career as a dog bite expert. Her expertise is bite
and hold, never testified in any case about dog bites
before got some money to testify that it was Unfortunately,

(01:33:50):
Hank Brennan never put out his experts that negated it.
He thought it was already a proven point. Clearly not.
But this is just ridiculous. I've been bought by a dog.
They do not bite that way. They don't just like
kind of scratch your arm that way, and they bite,

(01:34:12):
They bite down and they rip. You can clearly see
the outlines of it as someone who had their bitten
by a dog and had to wait hours with ice

(01:34:34):
on my face. First I was my mom rushed me
bleeding like you could see through my freaking face to
the emergency room and they wouldn't take me. Then they
took me. I had to wait eight hours with a
glove filled with chopped ice on my face, waiting for

(01:34:56):
a woman to get a face left for the plastic
surgeon to it to stitch up my face. So when
dogs bite, they do not bite like that. And believe me,
they leave a lot of DNA. They're all over you
when they bite you like kind of bite. There's no

(01:35:22):
bottom jaw on that dog.

Speaker 3 (01:35:25):
There's no at that point, because they had taken it
for evidence to show, and we proved beyond the shadow
of a doubt as the bumpers are crunching into each other.
You can hear on the video of the bumpers crunching
there is a two inch gap between the bat Her
tail light and Johnny's traverse. It was physically impossible for
that tail light. Who've ever made contact with his car?

(01:35:47):
And again, you know, Monday morning quarterbacking. And I'm not
an attorney, but looking back at trial too, they went
with the aperture version of that, and I frankly, I
think the Master Day police had better video proof.

Speaker 5 (01:36:00):
Do you think any of these people had anything against
Karen Reid that they wanted her to go down for this?
There's any sign of anyone else doing this? Don't you
think they wanted the right person convicted? Why? I think

(01:36:25):
I'm gonna leave it there for now. I think this
is I mean, we've done I think the majority of this.
You know, congratulations for Karen. Readers like I say, you're
going to be the last people to know you've been duped.
Welcome to innocence fraud. One oh one. All right, that's

(01:36:52):
what I have for today, guys. Karen Reid's mask is off.
Is anyone noticing anyone reckon Isaac that they've been fulled.
It's a tough road to wake up to to realize
that you've been fooled. Always is. I've definitely been fooled
in life, and I will the only person who says

(01:37:15):
they can't be fooled, that's the sucker. Okay. Please support
the channel. Links in the description of this in every episode.
Can buy me a coffee, Venmo, Patreon all great ways
to support the channel. Please hit the thumbs up on
your way out, leave me a comment. Always get a
lot out of your comments. I do read each and everyone.

(01:37:39):
Have a great night. Everyone. I will see you back
here tomorrow up maybe tomorrow tomorrow and six Eastern. Have
a great night. I hit my boyfriend with my car.

Speaker 9 (01:38:06):
It wasn't an accident, but with Lion lawyers, I'll go
far Lion lawyers.

Speaker 5 (01:38:14):
And witness herassment.

Speaker 10 (01:38:19):
All avoid prison. It was snowing.

Speaker 5 (01:38:25):
I pushed the pain on.

Speaker 9 (01:38:27):
Now hit him hard. Now the legal system my clown
in since for a campaign to save.

Speaker 5 (01:38:45):
My skin.

Speaker 9 (01:38:48):
Making honey truth is my second victim.

Speaker 10 (01:38:54):
Carry carry ginger like John you were my I'm my
innocence frid campaign is my biggest dude that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:24):
M hm.

Speaker 5 (01:39:31):
I hid my boyfriend with my coat.

Speaker 8 (01:39:39):
It wasn't an as.

Speaker 1 (01:39:45):
Both flying lawyers All go far Lion lawyers and witness
harassment olivoid prison.

Speaker 5 (01:39:57):
It was snowing. I pu push the pedal down.

Speaker 9 (01:40:02):
Hit him hard now the legal system, my clown.

Speaker 10 (01:40:10):
Insense frag campaign to save my skin.

Speaker 9 (01:40:17):
Making money truth.

Speaker 10 (01:40:19):
It's my second victim, carry.

Speaker 1 (01:40:23):
Carrying ginger like John, you were my mark.

Speaker 10 (01:40:29):
My innocence frock campaign is my biggest hitting it.

Speaker 5 (01:41:00):
The boy

Speaker 3 (01:41:05):
Him after he