September 10, 2025 • 98 mins
Alison Galvani returns to the channel to give an update on her mother Nancy’s cold case murder. Write to DA Wagstaffe: swagstaffe@smcgov.org. Here's a template you can use to copy and paste into your email.
DA Wagstaffe,
I'm writing to urge you to move forward and indict and prosecute the murderer of Nancy Galvani. The perpetrator of Nancy's cruel premeditated murder has enjoyed decades of undeserved freedom while Nancy's family has watched and waited for those in power to act. Please give Nancy's family the justice they deserve.
Sincerely,
(Your name)
We return to the testimony Wendi Adelson gave under a limited immunity deal. Ms. Adelson’s testimony was contradictory and hard to believe and frequently refuted with evidence provided by the State. Wendi Adelson remains one of two unindicted co-conspirators in the murder of Dan Markel. Today, we look at her testimony in her mother Donna Adelson’s murder trial and her brother Charlie Adelson's murder trial. Both Donna and Charlie Adelson were convicted by a jury after under four hours of deliberation. Does this easy conviction of Wendi's mother & brother give the State’s Attorney the confidence to finally indict Wendi Adelson for the murder of her ex—husband, Dan Markel. Or will she always remain a strange anomaly in this case- an unidicted member of the Adelson family who benefited the most from Markel’s murder?
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DA Wagstaffe,
I'm writing to urge you to move forward and indict and prosecute the murderer of Nancy Galvani. The perpetrator of Nancy's cruel premeditated murder has enjoyed decades of undeserved freedom while Nancy's family has watched and waited for those in power to act. Please give Nancy's family the justice they deserve.
Sincerely,
(Your name)
We return to the testimony Wendi Adelson gave under a limited immunity deal. Ms. Adelson’s testimony was contradictory and hard to believe and frequently refuted with evidence provided by the State. Wendi Adelson remains one of two unindicted co-conspirators in the murder of Dan Markel. Today, we look at her testimony in her mother Donna Adelson’s murder trial and her brother Charlie Adelson's murder trial. Both Donna and Charlie Adelson were convicted by a jury after under four hours of deliberation. Does this easy conviction of Wendi's mother & brother give the State’s Attorney the confidence to finally indict Wendi Adelson for the murder of her ex—husband, Dan Markel. Or will she always remain a strange anomaly in this case- an unidicted member of the Adelson family who benefited the most from Markel’s murder?
Get access to exclusive content & support the podcast by becoming a Patron today! https://patreon.com/robertaglasstruecrimereport Throw a tip in the tip jar! https://buymeacoffee.com/robertaglass Support Roberta by sending a donation via Venmo. https://venmo.com/robertaglass Become a channnel member for custom Emojis, first looks and exclusive streams here: https://youtube.com/@robertaglass/join Thank you Patrons! Rockstar60, Carol Mumumeci, Therese Tunks, JC, Lizzy D, Elizabeth Drake, Texas Mimi, Barb, Deborah Shults, Debra Ratliff, Stephanie Lamberson, Maryellen Sudol, Mona, Karen Pacini, Jen Buell, Marie Horton, ER, Rosie Grace, B. Rabbit, Sally Merrick, Amanda D, Mary B, Mrs Jones, Amy Gill, Eileen, Wesley Loves Octoberfest, Erin (Kitties1993), Anna Quint, Cici Guteriez, Sandra Loves GatsbyHannna, Christy, Jen Buell, Elle Solari, Carol Cardella, Jennifer Harmon, DoxieMama65, Carol Holderman, Joan Mahon, Marcie Denton, Rosanne Aponte, Johnny Jay, Jude Barnes, JenTheRN, Victoria Devenish, Jeri Falk, Kimberly Lovelace, Penni Miller, Jil, Janet Gardner, Jayne Wallace (JaynesWhirled), Pat Brooks, Jennifer Klearman, Judy Brown, Linda Lazzaro, Suzanne Kniffin, Susan Hicks, Jeff Meadors, D Samlam, Pat Brooks, Cythnia, Bonnie Schoeneman-Dilley, Diane Larsen, Mary, Kimberly Philipson, Cat Stewart, Cindy Pochesci, Kevin Crecy, Renee Chavez, Melba Pourteau, Julie K Thomas, Mia Wallace, Stark Stuff, Kayce Taylor, Alice, Dean, GiGi5, Jennifer Crum, Dana Natale, Bewildered Beauty, Pepper, Joan Chakonas, Blythe, Pat Dell, Lorraine Reid, T.B., Melissa, Victoria Gray Bross, Toni Woodland, Danbrit, Kenny Haines and Toni Natalie.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Donna Agelson from Coral Springs, Florida.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I want to hear all about you, Donna. Let's go well,
I'm a domestic coordinator.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
A domestic coordinator.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yes, I'm responsible for the activities, classes and lessons of
my son Robert, who was sixteen, Charlie who was twelve,
Whendy who was ten, my husband Harvey, who's in the audience,
and my dog's Sam.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
All right, and how old is Sam?
Speaker 5 (00:25):
Five?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Five?
Speaker 6 (00:26):
Cold?
Speaker 7 (00:27):
Give our best, ty nice to have your hair crop
and bottles.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Work, don consonance are gonna be worth.
Speaker 8 (00:36):
So I'm glad to have this again.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Personally.
Speaker 7 (00:38):
Isn't categories still your turn?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Letter beats?
Speaker 9 (00:41):
Hell?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Help?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
No hell, Donna, m yes, there are two ms. Let
him come up your five seconds person Ellen okay, yes, m.
Speaker 7 (01:01):
Mustard maker, Yes there's one age time starts now.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Mm hmm Donna, yes, mister.
Speaker 10 (01:28):
Nice m h You are listening to the ROBERTA. Glass
True Crime Report putting the true back in true crime.
Speaker 6 (01:51):
From New York City.
Speaker 9 (01:53):
ROBERTA. Glass is now on the record.
Speaker 6 (01:59):
H oh okay, as you can see those watching on YouTube,
Hello your latex spouse, Hello, Miss Marple, Hello Nadia, I
(02:25):
am not alone I am with my special guest, Alison Galvani.
He's going to give us an update on the cold
case of the murder of her mother, Nancy Galvani, some
pretty encouraging news or I find it encouraging, Alison, take it,
(02:45):
take it away.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Welcome, No, thank you. Yeah, I received your phone call
from Morris Maya, who is leading the prosecution, well hopefully
prosecut of my father. Finally, after more than forty years,
he is waiting for the sign off from his Da Wagstaff.
(03:13):
Your emails have been and Roberta's advocacy for justice have
been incredibly powerful in galvanizing action of the last year
the renewed investigation of my father. And there are many
people in the police department, well the entire police department
(03:36):
up to the top. We're passionate about this case. Now
Prosecutors Maya and Lucas King are also passionate. So there
as we're hoping for the sign off from Stephen Wagstaff.
Apparently the final decision will be made in a few weeks,
(03:59):
So if each message is a reminder that the case
is not forgotten. And mister my actually encouraged me to
he said, how helpful the emails were in allocation of
resources and you know, advocacy for my mother, so he
encouraged even more emails. So anyone who is willing, I
(04:25):
am so grateful. There's plenty of Oh yes, thank you,
that's the the email for mister Wagstaff. Yeah, there's overwhelming
evidence all the afford So I've spoken to believe that
to be the case. And I'm just really hopeful and
thank you, thankful to all of you shown solidarity in
(04:46):
this quest for justice.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
So if you have written an email, send another one
I did today. You can just say I'm writing again
to express my wish or urge you to prosecute the
(05:13):
murderer of Nancy Calvani. This has been a cold case
for too long. I put a you can just copy
and paste it in the description of this episode. You
can find kind of just a what do you call
it form letter? I don't know a template, and you
(05:34):
can just copy it, paste it, sign your name to it,
and send it off. I also put Wagstaff's email It's
s Wagstaff at smcgov dot org. So if you actually
misplace it, it's on the internet. Look up da Wagstaff forget.
(05:55):
But this is the time, we've made great progress in
moving this far.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Word.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
This has really been a cult case too long. Allison
and her family and everyone who loved Nancy Galvani deserve justice,
and I think it's time for us to use our
voices in a positive way and get this done.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, thank you so much for Berta. This would mean
a lot, even to my children. They feel the absence
of my grandmother or grandmother that they never met. In fact, well, ROBERTI,
you can tell me this too. Much of the tangent
is on the Adolesen case. But I wrote, and she
(06:40):
actually had. I had correspondence with Georgia Kapelman, who you know,
I think is a hero. She I could I could
read it to you, but basically, after she's the verdict,
she made a comment, should be you? When I wrote
to her, sure, uh yeah, she said this, She replied,
(07:01):
this was very powerfullow to her. So I said, dear
miss Kaplman, I want to congratulate you on your recent
conviction of Donna Ledolson. Your steadfast commitment to justice has
been remarkable to watch, and I know how much your
work means not only to the legal system, but to
(07:24):
everyone who has been following this case closely. You said afterwards,
this was in the press conference that really struck me,
and I wanted to This is what I wanted to
convey to her. You said afterwards that you hadn't done
Benjamin Lincoln any favors. I believe you had. By ensuring
accountability for their father's murder, you've given them something invaluable,
(07:46):
the truth affirmed in a court of law, and the
knowledge that people were willing to fight for their father's
memory that he could no longer fight for himself. That
matters deeply, even if mates take time for them to
fully realize. I write to you also from a place
of personal experience. When I was five years old, my
mother was murdered, and the overwhelming evidence shows that it
(08:07):
was my father who killed her. Yet more than four
decades later, he has never been brought to justice. I
was raised by him. As the boys were being raised
by Wendy. I was raised by him, and that experience
has been a lifelong source of anguish. Living under the
control of a person who took my mother's life, and
then during the silence and de nile that surrounded it.
(08:28):
I'm still waiting for the day when my mother's case
will be brought before a jury. I think the outcome
you achieved in the Markel case gives me hope that justice,
even when long and laid, is possible. You have given
Benjamin Lincoln a gift, whether they see it now or not,
and in doing so, you've given strength of people like
me who continue to fight for justice for our own
(08:49):
loved ones with gratitude and admiration.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
Oh that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, and she replied, yeah, h she said, oh, she
said she thanked me and said it was really powerful
moving because I hope that Benjamin and Lincoln aren't in
a situation where they're still advocating her full justice with
(09:21):
their father. In other words, you know, Wendy, it's very comfortable,
like Wendy's being. The boys are being raised by the
person who's culpable in there the other parents murder.
Speaker 11 (09:34):
And she made me feel even sad that she thought that.
It sounded like she thought she'd, you know, she's something
monumental for justice, but hadn't as she's like.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Her own words were that she's aware she hasn't done
any favors today for Benjamin Lincoln, but it is I
really want her to know that almost out of everyone.
I feel like she's doing this most for Benjamin Lincoln.
Perhaps that's just because I'm in, you know, the analogous situation,
(10:08):
but it will mean a lot to them. I'm sure
once the denial lifts.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
Right then, you know, you can't even imagine. I'm sure
Georgia Kapelman and Tallahassee had been villainized. So you think
in that family, yes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
In the Adolesen family, yes, exactly. Yeah, I think the
boys as I was of living, you know, with gas lighting,
and but I think they will the denial eventually will
lift for them and it will be a source of peace.
(10:49):
But that their father received full justice. And you know,
some people talk about I even heard, yeah, multiple people
talking about like for the sake of the boys, or
take away their other parent. That argument was made in
my case, But it's not another loving parent. Any parent
(11:13):
who is involved in the premeditated murder of one parent.
A loving parent is, to put it mildly, not putting
the interest of the child care amount and being raised
by someone like that is not healthy. Yeah, it's a
(11:38):
source of anguish that I lived with my father for
so long, with him disparaging her memory, and I imagine
things like that or happening for the Martel voice.
Speaker 6 (11:55):
So I mean, we watched the the murder, the case
of the murder of Dan Markel from Afar, and we
watch the Agolson family get indicted and convicted from Afar,
and we really have no control over whether Wendy is
(12:16):
arrested or indicted. But this is a case where we
really do have some say in whether the killer gets
indicted and prosecuted. So I really encourage everyone to use
their power, use their voice, right, da Wagstaff, It's S
(12:39):
for Stephen Wagstaff. So S Wagstaff all one word s
W A G S A S T A F f
E at s mc gov dot org. I couldn't have
messed that up more. But it's in the description of
this episode and also a template emails and you don't
(13:04):
have to follow that. You can write your own or
you can just copy and paste and send it off.
You could do it while you're watching this episode. What
do you I just have one question for you, Allison,
what did you feel when you heard Jeffrey Lea Cass
say that Wendy had asked him about the children? When
(13:28):
do children get memories? So obviously she was making sure
that her children wouldn't have any memory of their father's murder.
What were your thoughts on that?
Speaker 8 (13:42):
Right?
Speaker 6 (13:42):
Well, I.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So the oldest boy was just a few days away
from his fifth birthday. I was five, closer to six
when my mother was killed. I have very vivid memories.
I think the trauma encapsulates it. And even if the
boy don't have memories of their father, that itself is
tragic and the trauma early childhood development, the trauma of
(14:10):
something like that happening will affect them even if they
don't have explicit memories. Like I think, there have been
repercussions in my life of an anxious person. I do
feel that I'm always concerned that because you know, my
mother's death is so sudden. It's yeah, I have a
(14:35):
lot of anxiety that the people that I love most
will you know, suddenly be gone. And you know that's
not I try to contain that, you know, and I
have a daughter in college and a yeah, I have
(14:57):
to have to. It's a struggle to handle that anxiety,
but I try to not let it affect my parenting.
You know.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
Also, I mean it's a hole that you're grieving for
the parent that you never that you only had limited
time with for the rest of your life. I mean,
it's just a hole that a wound that really just
doesn't heal. You always miss your the parent that was murdered.
So just so odd that you would say, well, if
(15:33):
they don't remember the actual shooting, that they they somehow
that they would be immune from this heinous act. Your
late text spouse says, will be part of the rewatch crew.
Thank you, your late tex spouse, and all my wonderful moderators.
(15:56):
I'll be part of the rewatch crew at work tonight,
have work. Prayers for Charlie Kirk speaking of his children,
will remember, will be permanently wounded by this too, his
his wife Erica, and their two babies. Sad day for
(16:16):
our country, certainly is that free speech in this country,
not matter what side of the political aisle you were on.
It's a very sad day for our country. The free
speech now means possible death. It always has. But wait,
does this bring it home? And it shouldn't. Shouldn't mean that.
(16:42):
Love and peace to you all, certainly, very very unsettling day,
upsetting day, and I echo those sentiments. All right, do
you want to watch with me or do you want
to hang out or do you do you have to go? Allison,
I'm going to get into Wendy. I don't know if
you want to hang around. I know I didn't really
(17:03):
prepare that you're welcome to go, come and go or whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I have some flexibility. It's up to you. ROBERTA.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
Well, I just wanted to show the difference. So I
wanted to talk about Wendy's red flags and how different
her testimony was from last time we saw her. So
we're just finishing up Wendy Aedolson's testimony, so I wanted
to start with I don't know why it seems so
obvious now, but Charlie her testimony at hold on one second,
(17:40):
Charlie Itolson's trial. This is just a little compilation here
that long crime put together. So I'm going to start
with the questions about the TV and we'll compare them
to this time. Just look at the demeanor. So last
time we saw a very defiant, peppy whend Edelson on
(18:05):
this stand, a lot of confidence, very cocky as always,
not that she's ever been a good liar. But here
take a listen to now she answers this question about
her conversation with Charlie around her broken TV, and then
we'll look at her compared to her weary. The word
(18:30):
weary wrings in my head, weary, nervous. She seems to
know that it might be she might be next, She
might be up on the stand next as a defendant.
She takes the stand or sitting in the chair that
her mother is sitting in. So she's watched first her
(18:50):
brother get convicted, now her mother. She's the last woman standing,
and she had to know that she's testifying with a
limited immunity TL. But that doesn't save her from being prosecuted.
It only stops them from investigating and prosecuting her for
(19:14):
anything she says in the stand. Taka, listen to the
how she answers the question about the TV.
Speaker 9 (19:19):
Speak to him.
Speaker 12 (19:21):
It would have been right after the repair guys were there,
because that's when I called him to tell him, ask
him whether I should get the TV repaired or buy
a new TV, so it would have been warning.
Speaker 9 (19:31):
How long did you talk to him?
Speaker 12 (19:34):
I don't remember.
Speaker 9 (19:35):
Is eighteen minutes sound incorrect?
Speaker 12 (19:38):
That sounds reasonable?
Speaker 9 (19:40):
Okay? Did you talk to him about other things other
than just the TV?
Speaker 12 (19:44):
I really don't remember. What else I talked to him
about but probably maybe I would have asked him about
his work or we would have caught up.
Speaker 9 (19:51):
Did you happen to mention Dan Markel's plans to go
to New York the next day?
Speaker 12 (19:55):
I don't see why I would have.
Speaker 9 (19:57):
Did you have WhatsApp on your phone at that time?
Speaker 12 (20:01):
I don't know if in twenty fourteen I had What's Up?
Now we use it for all the parent chats at school,
so it's everybody seems to have it, But I don't
know if everybody had it back in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 9 (20:12):
What is what'sapp? What's Up?
Speaker 6 (20:16):
He didn't have any of this? Smiling people, please kind
of testimony this time?
Speaker 9 (20:20):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So here, here's rattle now.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
Yeah, here's her answering the very similar question in her
mother's trial. Her mother, Donna Ingolson's trial for the murderer
of Dan mark Out. Take a take a look.
Speaker 9 (20:38):
Did you talk to your brother Charlie on the morning
of the murder?
Speaker 12 (20:42):
I did?
Speaker 9 (20:43):
And does an eighteen minute conversation at nine thirty am
that day sound correct?
Speaker 6 (20:47):
It does?
Speaker 9 (20:48):
Do you remember the nature of that conversation?
Speaker 12 (20:50):
I do. I didn't purchase the TV, so I didn't
know how much the TV cost? And so I called
him to find out if it made more sense to
get the TV repaired or buy a new TV because
I didn't know what the delta was there.
Speaker 9 (21:03):
Okay, can you tell the jury one way or the
other for sure whether you mentioned Dan Markell's travel plans
to Charlie during that eighteen minute phone call.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
I can't say for sure.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
Hold on, Allison, just aside the delta, what is the delta?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I think she's talking about like the original investment. But
she spent eighteen minutes, over eighteen minutes on the call
with Charlie asking how much does the TV cost? Originally?
It doesn't take eighteen minutes. Eighteen minutes is a fairly
long conversation.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
I mean, I mean, we can reenact this conversation right now. Hey, Allison,
you know that TV you bought me. They're telling me
that they can't repair it. What should I do now
that I can't repair it? Did you spend a lot
of money on it? I mean, what's the conversation? What
can you ask? I mean, they already told her they
can't repair it, so what are options?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah? Exactly, they.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
Go ahead?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Oh no, I just I was gonna agree. I mean,
would he say like, oh it was you know, even
if like six hundred dollars and just get a new one,
they can certainly afford it.
Speaker 6 (22:22):
What do I do now that I can't buy a
new TV?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
We have to spend all of our money on this hit.
So yeah, money might we might be a bit stretched.
So maybe you have to go without the TV. But
you're getting a hit this time instead of the TV.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Oh thank you it is? Are they on their way?
Are the TV repairmen? Hint, hint on their way? Wink wink.
I don't know. He's so odd.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Better drive by check that it's done this time?
Speaker 6 (22:55):
Yeah? Yeah, oh so none of the smiling app being
people pleasing, peppy kind of your addiction is always great.
We'll say that on the positive side, But.
Speaker 12 (23:10):
That I don't see why I would have brought it up.
Speaker 9 (23:14):
Did you have What'sapp on your phone at that time?
Speaker 6 (23:17):
I did?
Speaker 9 (23:18):
What is WhatsApp?
Speaker 12 (23:19):
What's app is a it's a phone service. It's an
app that I use when I talk to people who
live in other countries, so it's become very popular. I
think I had it at the time. I know I
certainly have it now, but it's a device to send messages.
Speaker 9 (23:39):
During the timeframe that we're talking about, which is around
the time of the murder. Did you communicate with any
of your family members through WhatsApp?
Speaker 12 (23:47):
I don't remember using what's happ unless they were traveling internationally,
because it's a way of making free calls or free texts,
when at that time making long distance calls on a
regular phone would have been very expensive.
Speaker 9 (24:00):
Did you ever communicate with Catherine mcvanama three WhatsApp?
Speaker 12 (24:03):
I don't remember ever texting her on any platform, Roberta.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
You know it came out in Donna's trial with her
friend testifying it because you know, Wendy there, I think
is lying she was using WhatsApp, but apparently you couldn't
make phone calls, and at that time it was the
twenty fifteen on WhatsApp, which is something I didn't realize,
but that came out. Kapelman used that to impeach the
(24:37):
Annie's any Cunningham friend anyway, So Wendy just said the
same thing about making phone calls.
Speaker 6 (24:46):
Yeah, strangely, no one has a fascination I did. I
thought their testimony was fascinating. Any cunning In and Roth Cutters,
they were just willing to lie for Donna so easily,
and it was clear. I mean, they were just like
accomplices sort of. Apparently Donna had texted them and said,
(25:09):
I need you to come come over. I can't tell you,
you know, talk about it on the phone, but I
just need you to come over. And Annie Cunningham said,
we're back. Just say the word like anything you need.
So if we need to say that, we communicated regularly
with you on WhatsApp, via phone or Viber, And I
(25:32):
thought she said that the reason she used Viber is
because it was free, and it's not free internationally. It
may be cheaper, but it's certainly not free. By my
investigation into.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It, I'd never even though.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
It's used in Asian countries like it's very popular there.
So were they planning to communicate. I don't know if
they were ever really using Viber, but I wondered if
it was something that they were planning on using in
Vietnam to communicate with Annie and and Ron the accompliced couple. Walker,
(26:19):
thanks so much, so back to yeah, now, I kind
of wanted this is a very quick you could kind
of go back and forth, but it's a very quick.
See a little bit more since yeah, right, it's the
same in set of questions.
Speaker 12 (26:42):
It's kind of an app you would use for texting.
Speaker 9 (26:46):
Do you know if your brother Charlie had it at
that time?
Speaker 12 (26:48):
I have no idea if you had it at that time.
Speaker 9 (26:50):
Did you ever communicate with Charlie through What'sapp? Maybe?
Speaker 12 (26:54):
I mean, I don't know if I had it at
that time or if I had it later, I probably
would have just not sure. Yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Have no idea. Such a lie, because you do have
an idea she had an idea if she was texting
him via WhatsApp, she would know he had it. You
can't text to someone on what's App if the other
person doesn't have it, So there's a lie in my opinion.
Speaker 9 (27:22):
Did you have any contact of any kind with Catherine
mcbanawa on the day of Dan Markell's murder? No? Did
you ever communicate with her through WhatsApp?
Speaker 12 (27:31):
I never communicated with her at all.
Speaker 9 (27:34):
All right, let's talk about.
Speaker 6 (27:35):
Well, dec I don't believe either, what about you?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, I don't. I don't believe because when because you know,
the hit men they turned off their phone, and they
didn't because they didn't want to, you know, detect it.
Around the murder, although the police were still able to
do connect the dots. But by the time they turned
their phone on, like they you know, left Tallahassee, apparently
(28:03):
they called Katie and told them this was their very
first communication outside of the two of them that it
had been done. And Katie apparently said, I know. So
I think that Wendy drove by and saw that it
had been done and communicated that to Katie Charlie her
(28:23):
co conspirators. That's what I think happened.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
That's a fair assumption. And this is something that we
see where killers turn off their phone. Brian Coberger did
it before the murder and then turn it on after.
Amanda Knox and her boyfriend Raffie la so Lechtoe turned
off their phones together in Unison before the murder of
Meredith Kircher and turned them on again in Unison afterwards.
(28:52):
They never did that before, they never did it again,
and here we see it in this case too. So
it's not uncommon for this smart killer her to who
doesn't want to be caught, to do but then you
get caught because it's you know, you don't Maybe the
smarter thing is to do is to leave it on
at home or something. I don't know.
Speaker 9 (29:14):
Yeah, yeah, communicated with her.
Speaker 12 (29:16):
I saw her in person, but I'm saying I never
texted with her, called her, and never communicated via a
device other than in person.
Speaker 9 (29:24):
Okay, what about when you were talking about.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
Look at all these hand movements. It's almost like sign language.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah. I feel like between this trial we're seeing Hubris
turning into fear that in the next trial. She's really
rattled now because you know, new things have come out
that she probably wasn't aware that Georgia Kapelman had about,
for instance, Wendy canceling her cable. It sounds like packing
(29:55):
up her house already, the family already starting to use
the atal names of the Mark Hell name for the boys.
There's a lot that came out that implicates Wendy, And
you know, I think Georgia Kaufman has been aware all along.
And I think some of these questions are I'm going
(30:16):
to be informative for Wendy's trial.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
I think so too. I think so too. Dean Walker,
thanks so much. If I'm not sure, but thank you
or dot I was thinking it not sure if I
put it up, and thank you. Thank you so much.
Dean we have if I thank you choice, that's just
the way it's going to go today.
Speaker 9 (30:40):
Your brother, did she ever get on the phone and
speak to you?
Speaker 12 (30:42):
I don't think so.
Speaker 9 (30:44):
Okay. I want to talk about where you went when
you left your residence on the day of the murder.
You tried to turn on to Truscott, and then you
ended up where I went.
Speaker 12 (30:56):
I was supposed to go to a party that night,
to stalk the bar party, so I went to a
liquor store to pick up what they had asked for
as the present for their party. So I went to
the liquor store, I picked up the alcohol, I stopped,
I think I got gas, and then I went to
lunch to meet my friends.
Speaker 9 (31:14):
And the liquor store purchase appears to have occurred at
twelve forty nine based on the receipt. Do you have
any reason to dispute that time?
Speaker 12 (31:21):
That's right, okay.
Speaker 9 (31:22):
And then from there to the restaurant, yes, And where
was the restaurant located mosaic?
Speaker 12 (31:31):
I actually don't remember. I just remember I would go
north on Thomas Full Road, all right, So it was
and is the restaurant.
Speaker 6 (31:39):
But she didn't pick up bullet bourbon. She took it,
which was it's a bullet bourbon or another spirit. So
they asked for specifically bullet bourbon, but you could bring
another kind of alcohol. Here's the party invite, here's the
bottom of it, and there's what she bought with a
(32:01):
receive perfectly preserved, of course, but she bought bullet rye
whiskey instead. And someone left me a comment and I
don't remember this, and the victim impact statements that I
read at the end of pretty much every episode that
(32:22):
they remember someone writing that rye whiskey was Dan Markel's
favorite drink. I don't remember that. But if I I
asked to see if anyone else remembers that, I can,
of course go through the victim impact statements in check.
But do you remember that, Allison.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
No, I don't remember that. I always thought that the
the the bullet bourbon that is, yeah, that was on
the stalk to stalk the bar. The meaningful part of
all that to me is the secuitous route she took,
and they show that she had. She also had the
(33:01):
option of I guess its ABC looker was the name
of the liquor store. She had an option much closer
to the house she was now living or then living it,
but saying that she drove down she started to drive
down Trustcott Road and then she hit the prime tape.
(33:23):
She had to drive. That's not possible that she just
saw it. She had to drive a long ways when
you look at a map on Trescott Drive. And I think,
especially because the you know, there was an attempt at
a first hit that the two hitmen came down the
month earlier she and it didn't. It didn't go through,
(33:45):
so I think she was just impatient to know. And yeah,
I think even Charlie used the description. She couldn't help herself.
You know, she had to see if it was really done.
So that was just stupid.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
It's so funny that that you should mention mentioned that
because I have a short then I made just just
a just about that.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So that's great.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Let's let's watch it. Hold on one second, I think,
is this the longer one or let me see I
want to play this shorter one. Yeah, this is the
shorter one. Okay. That gets right to the heart of that,
you know, like having.
Speaker 12 (34:31):
Need to have known about it, and that one knew
about it, that showing up.
Speaker 8 (34:38):
People don't just randomly show up at they're EXTI house,
no parent reason.
Speaker 12 (34:44):
Did you draw that route?
Speaker 6 (34:46):
I wish you could turn on that street? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (34:49):
Yeah, what law firms did that place in time?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Thank crazy?
Speaker 5 (34:58):
I mean it's crazy. It's what you said to me.
It's like a movie crazy. Like, wait a minute, these
things can happen coincidences. It's just crazy coincidence, but it happens.
Speaker 13 (35:12):
But what brought her to that place in time at
that time on that page?
Speaker 8 (35:17):
Not an hour before an hour happens? Yeah, like it
would have had the like not five hours later, you know,
like you said, what is h But Jesus Christ, I mean,
it's not like she showed up six hours later. It's
not like she showed up an hour before an hour.
(35:38):
Aff she shows up because as Paplman said, she could
have culmers.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, that.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
Shown it say, the most obvious answer, the simplest answer,
it's the real answer. It's not I mean, what's the
most obvious answer for Wendy leaving her for alibi and
they've shown up there? What was the only answer you have?
And as soon as you leave your house and doesn't
show up.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Ridiculous, It's so stupid.
Speaker 8 (36:14):
Here's the thing. One of the most obvious the answer.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
I just wanted to see if it was done.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
Couldn't help, But she wanted to see if it was done,
and she couldn't help herself.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yep, they've Yeah, Charlie, Charlie, Charlie and Donna, they explained that.
I think they're frustrated with her for doing that. Wasn't
part of the plan. But it's isn't it stereotypical to
return to the crime scene? And yeah, I think she
just she couldn't wait until she her from She had
(37:00):
to find out herself. Yeah, exactly what they said.
Speaker 6 (37:09):
Yeah, and then he calls it her alibi? What made
her leave her alibi? Well, thank you Charlie Adelson for
letting us know that the TV repair was her alibi.
I mean, you don't have an alibi. An innocent person
doesn't have an alibi. They have a thing they were
doing that day. They don't leave their alibi. What made
(37:31):
her leave the thing she was doing? What made what
they're saying is, how could Wendy be so stupid is
to abandon our plan?
Speaker 2 (37:44):
We gave her the alibi and right, yeah, that's that.
I hadn't noticed them using the word alibi. That's interesting, Yes,
because I think the TV repairman did come earlier than
they were expecting or hoping, you know, they came at
the beginning of the window and so but yeah, she
was supposed to. They'd set that up as her alibi,
(38:07):
and Charlie's frustrated she didn't stick to the plan. Instead,
she drove by the crime scene.
Speaker 6 (38:15):
And what a stupid stupid stupid music Donna's favorite word, stupid, stupid.
It was stupid, stupid, the stupid question to ask Wendy. Well,
they could have come earlier, they could have come later,
but okay, So if they came later, right after Dan
Marcau was murdered, then she would have been waiting for
(38:37):
the TV repairman while he was murdered. Or if they
came earlier, she the TV repairman had just come and
she wouldn't have had time to drive by his house
and murder. And that was what it still would have
worked as an alibi.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
No, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 8 (38:59):
Was.
Speaker 6 (38:59):
She can to do grab her stuff. After I got
my TV repaired, I ran and shot him and then
ran home or whatever. And then she made that lunch date,
just to that last minute lunch date, just to have
an extra alibi, makes.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
An excellent or she also told I think she was
in a hurry to get to her lunch. In such
a hurry, she didn't have time to shower, yet she
has time to go several miles out of the way.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Yeah that's it's a great one. Yeah. I hadn't heard
that one in a long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
So back to Wendy's testimony, we're comparing and contrasting her
testimony in Charlie Edelson's trial with her testimony in her mother,
Dona Ingolson's Trialment.
Speaker 9 (39:57):
Came to speak with you, and you up going with
them to the police station.
Speaker 12 (40:02):
Right, that's correct.
Speaker 9 (40:10):
Do you agree or disagree that there have been some
financial benefits to you and your boys as a result
of Dan's death?
Speaker 12 (40:19):
I disagree.
Speaker 9 (40:23):
When did you decide to change the names of your
children from Mark Hell to Adelson?
Speaker 12 (40:32):
So after Danny's murder, there was a lot of news
that just hit the media, and there were news stories everywhere,
and Nancy Grace on CNN put pictures of my boys
with their faces unblurred, just pictures of them, and I
was terrified. And so when they started school, I started
school with my last name, thinking that would keep them safe,
(40:54):
that they wouldn't be associated with the murder.
Speaker 9 (40:57):
Wasn't the Adelson name in the press.
Speaker 12 (41:00):
It was not in the press.
Speaker 8 (41:02):
Yet.
Speaker 9 (41:10):
Do you agree that you legally changed the kids' names
on July sixth of twenty fifteen. That sounds right, So
it was actually a year after the homicide.
Speaker 6 (41:18):
A year after.
Speaker 9 (41:32):
When was the last time you talked to.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Your Yeah, we learned really more in this trial about
how quickly that happened. That name change happened though.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Before he was killed, they were using it on invitations
for the boys. I mean informally, but still I think
that implicates, Yeah, the premeditation. She wrote a passage in
her book, her largely autobiographical but technically fictional book, where
(42:09):
she also changed the baby's name when she was divorcing
the husband. So that was her plan. Yeah, and again
she's just impatient. She used to drive by the crimecy
and patient, impatient to change the boys' names.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
Uh, great point, he's still there.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
I'm here, I'm here.
Speaker 6 (42:44):
Yeah, it's a great point. She's impatient. It reminds me
of be a pharaoh. After her break from Wadie, Allen
changed all the kids first names. Oh, I mean that's
to me and my friend, my family friend, Dory Previn said,
(43:06):
who was married to Mia Farrow's husband for Mia Pharaoh
Henary preven to, Yeah, brilliant, brilliant woman. There's a great
new documentary about her. I don't know that. I just saw.
I don't know when it's going to be officially broadly released.
But she said, now the children have nothing, not even
(43:27):
their names. She meant when she said that, I mean,
it's such a deep thing to change the kids' names
for the children's identity and own sense of self. But
for Wendy, it's what she wants is paramount. It's so clear,
and the children's needs are come way last to whatever
(43:48):
she wants.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah, well said.
Speaker 12 (44:00):
Existed at that time.
Speaker 6 (44:02):
Okay, sorry, I just jumped the gun and I forgot
to share this screen before I started. Let's go back
Banama three WhatsApp.
Speaker 12 (44:10):
I don't remember ever texting her on any platform.
Speaker 9 (44:14):
Did you have any other encrypted platforms on your phone
at that time.
Speaker 12 (44:18):
At that time? I don't think so. I don't know
what existed at that time.
Speaker 9 (44:24):
Okay, So when you after you turned around and did
not proceed down, trust Scott, you went, I think to
the liquor store. Can you tell us about that? Sure?
Speaker 12 (44:38):
I was invited to stalk the bar party for that
night for a friend's daughter, and so they asked for
a specific type of bourbon. I'm not a bourbon drinker.
So I went to the liquor store and told them.
I showed them the invitation which was shaped like the
kind of bourbon they wanted us to buy, and asked
if they had that, and they and I bought it.
Speaker 9 (45:01):
All right, And that type of bourbon was bullet bourbon.
Speaker 12 (45:03):
That's right?
Speaker 9 (45:04):
And do you recall that.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
It was?
Speaker 6 (45:07):
Look how nervous she gets when she's talking about her
drived by the crime scene. Did you see that? And
then she looks at her mother briefly. Did you see that?
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Allison, She's rattled in this trial, unlike the others she
was cocky and the others.
Speaker 6 (45:25):
But let's take another look at that, just for a
hot minute. For those that just just tuning in, we're
watching Wendy's testimony in her mother, Donna's trial, comparing it
just a little bit to a little section in her
(45:49):
brother's trial.
Speaker 9 (45:50):
What is What's up?
Speaker 6 (45:51):
What's up? Is it's a oh wait, I'm way too far. Sorry,
I didn't mean to go that far back.
Speaker 9 (46:02):
Down. Trust Scott, you went, I think to the liquor store.
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 12 (46:10):
Sure, I was.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:11):
When she's we asked the question, she looks at her mother.
It looks like her to the right, and she may
be looking at her lawyer John Laura is sitting behind her.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Oh oh, that's interesting because yeah, I spoke to someone
who was in the courtroom on that day and they
said that she wouldn't look at her mother, which may
be why Georgia Kapelman then asked her eventually to identify
(46:41):
her mother, and that was the only time she looked
at her mother. So I think it may be that she's, yeah,
looking at Laura or someone else, because well, that was
you know, it's hard to get that perspective when the
camera's just on one person. But that's that's what was
reported from someone in the courtroom because you had you
had Pattie reporting all the all these kinds of details
(47:04):
as well on your channel.
Speaker 6 (47:06):
Sure did, thank you Patty for that. That was a
real foing, real treat.
Speaker 12 (47:11):
Invited to stock the bar party for that night for
a friend's daughter, and so they asked for a specific
type of bourbon. I'm not a bourbon drinker. So I
went to the liquor store and told them. I showed
them the invitation, which was shaped like the kind of
bourbon they wanted us to buy, and asked if they
had that, and they did, and I bought it.
Speaker 9 (47:33):
All right, And that type of bourbon was bullet bourbon.
Speaker 12 (47:36):
That's right.
Speaker 9 (47:37):
And do you recall the time of that purchase.
Speaker 12 (47:41):
I don't, but I see a receipt here at twelve
forty nine.
Speaker 9 (47:45):
Okay, And does that fit with your memory? You left
the house around I think you said afternoon, proceeded to
the scene, encountered the tape, and then went to the
liquor store.
Speaker 10 (47:56):
Right.
Speaker 12 (47:57):
I proceeded to drive to the liquor store. I saw
tape and turned around, and then I bought the bourbon
that they asked for at twelve forty nine, and then
I may have gotten gas after that, and then I
drove to lunch, and.
Speaker 9 (48:12):
Lunch was where law enforcement came in and encountered you.
That's right, okay, And that was where you were having
lunch with a couple of friends.
Speaker 12 (48:18):
That's right.
Speaker 9 (48:25):
Did you relocate to South.
Speaker 6 (48:28):
Bore You get the feeling like oh now I'm safe.
Now I'm to the part where I'm not in implicating
myself in this murder, the part where I'm with my
friends at lunch. You can feel the anxiety kind of
come off of her by the by by the end
of the story, there bye any comments.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Allison, Yeah, I think that her driving by the crime
scene may well be the needle in the haystack that
leads to her conviction because she was otherwise. I think
(49:16):
she was pretty careful and not putting as much communication,
like in electronic form with her mother and that sort
of thing. Of course, we don't know everything that Georgia has.
Like additional things came out with Rob that Wendy had
(49:37):
sent a photo of Jeffrey Lacrosse saying, oh, this is
my new secret boyfriend just before the murder. That he
was not secret because her parents had already met him
multiple times. So that was like a clever well, it's
kind of like to the British saying too clever by half.
(50:00):
That was like she a subtle manipulation but made backfire
on her because it wasn't even true. But she wanted Rob,
her brother, to suggest Jeffrey Lacosse to the police, which
he did. He fell for it. But now it looks
with the whole picture, and now looks it bocates her rout,
so it's yeah, it's counterproductive for her purposes.
Speaker 6 (50:25):
And then we also have the new testimony of Sarah Yusuf,
who came forward after Charlie Adelson's trial after sheared Bill
Markel's victim impact statement. Sarah Yusef was also a lawyer,
was friends with Wendy and then for whatever reason, stopped
talking to Wendy. She worked under Da the Weather Underground's son,
(50:53):
Chessa Boudin, Kathy Boudin's son, and very very much a
kind of the what you'd call.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
That.
Speaker 6 (51:06):
He called himself a restorative justice prosecutor, but I would
call pro criminal prosecutor, very much involved in that movement
in freeing convicted murderers from prison. And Wendy Edelson was
telling Sarah Yusuf, according to Sarah Yusef, after Dan Markel's murder,
(51:27):
that she was going to spend the rest of her
life in prison. Have you heard that?
Speaker 2 (51:38):
No, that's amazing.
Speaker 6 (51:42):
And according to Sarah Yussef, she said, well, I was
involved in, you know, probably trying to get a guilty
guy out of prison. My view at the time, and
I mean the way I see it is that she
was so involved in her work seeing murderers as victims
that she wasn't going to turn Wendy in. But when
(52:03):
she saw the she kind of had a she matured
and grew out of that and saw that really there's
a deeper, wider view of our justice system and that
they're real victims, are the Marquelle family. She had a
different take on She thought that Wendy was saying it
(52:26):
because she thought she was going to be wrongfully convicted
of murder. Well, if you didn't do it, well, you
wouldn't worry about that. It's the last thing on your mind.
I don't worry about crimes I you know, being convicted
about crimes I didn't commit and are so certain about
it too. She's saying with total certainty that she's going
(52:48):
to spend the rest of her life in prison. So
it gives a little bit of depth into this testimony
at her at her mother's trial. Let's take a look
at what was going on it. Let's listen to a
little bit more of it.
Speaker 9 (53:04):
Some of the key points in Florida, after mister Markel's death.
Speaker 12 (53:08):
I in terms of relocation, I did leave Tallahassee after
the funeral, but I just took I took a weekender
for both the boys and me and thought I would
be back pretty quickly.
Speaker 9 (53:22):
Did you come back?
Speaker 12 (53:24):
I did come back a few times, but just to
get things though, right, not really to get things. I
came back a couple of times to give a talk
or to do some work, but or to it.
Speaker 9 (53:33):
I'm interested in is where were you living after the murder?
Speaker 12 (53:36):
I wasn't living in Tallahassee, all right?
Speaker 9 (53:38):
Did you recall on the trip to South Florida, just
within forty eight hours of the shooting, getting a call
from Craig Isom.
Speaker 6 (53:48):
Yes, okay?
Speaker 9 (53:50):
And what happened with that call?
Speaker 12 (53:53):
I talked to him for a while. He mentioned that
he might want to have DNA samples of the kids.
We were already halfway down. We'd been in the car
for about four hours with the boys, and in that sense,
I was with my parents, okay, and the kids. We talked.
The call broke up and he never followed up.
Speaker 9 (54:16):
Was it like a you're breaking up?
Speaker 12 (54:19):
I told him I was having a hard time hearing.
Speaker 9 (54:21):
But were you faking that or it wasn't really breaking.
Speaker 12 (54:23):
I was not faking that, And did you send your lawyer?
Speaker 6 (54:27):
I thought that was so interesting because I've always thought
she faked it. I don't know about you.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I think she faked it especially. Yeah, that was interesting
that Georgia, you know, and asked her, you know nothing
that Wendy had completely moved to the extent that she
said I didn't. Basically, she didn't even have stuff to
come back to. She suggested to me there was planning
(54:56):
and packing because it's hard to move, especially like two
little kids. But she and with her parents, she had
already moved all her stuff, so she when she came back,
it was only to give a talk, which I think
is kind of like one of her humble brags.
Speaker 6 (55:14):
I know, right, It's just so perfect only to only
to support my book. It's called This Is Our Story
and you can buy it on Amazon for blah blah
blah blah blah. It has a great picture of my
eye on the cover. Rosemary Romero says, thank you Roberta
for all you do and supporting Alison in her cause
(55:37):
to help her seek hashtag justice for Nancy. You're welcome, Rosemary.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
Thank you Rosemary has been an extraordinary warrior along with them,
along with you, Roberta, and several others. In fact, Rosemary
succeeded in getting wag Staff on the phone. It wasn't
that I haven't even heard that he texted me though.
(56:05):
She kept calling until eventually Wagstaff spoke with her, So.
Speaker 9 (56:15):
That was.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
And she felt positive about the conversation.
Speaker 6 (56:20):
She texted me, Yeah, we're making real headway, so get
those emails out. I really think, you know, and when
we when this finally, when they finally decide to go
forward with the prosecution, we have to do something special
in this channel for for everybody who's helped, don't you think, Alison.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Oh, that would be amazing. I can't think of what
would be sufficient to show my gratitude.
Speaker 6 (56:49):
We'll do something fun on this channel. I'm very positive.
I think, I really think it's going in a positive direction.
I don't know if I'm blindly optimistic, but I feel
good about it all. Right. Back to Wendy and not
feeling not so good. I mean, this is just like
a totally different person we saw in the in the
(57:11):
witness box, and I think the jury cannot help. But
notice her demeanor I mean, she doesn't come off as truthful.
She comes off as so mannered and odd on the stand.
She's not a good witness at all. She's a mannered
lie at someone that you suspect is lying kind of witness.
(57:32):
How would you describe her on the stand, Allison.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
I think that she is a skilled manipulator, and she
vacillates between ah almost being brainless and therefore uninvolved, even
(57:59):
claiming in a previous hearing or trial she didn't know
she's a lawyer, but she didn't know what contempt meant
or dismissal with prejudice. But I think out of the
three adlsins we've seen testify, although Donna didn't take the
(58:20):
stance she testified and hearing, Wendy is the most skilled actress.
And in fact that was underscored by an email that
her mom sent her encouraging her to act, and that
she Donna's telling Wendy, Oh, you can be a good
actress when you need to be. So yeah, she acts
(58:45):
like someone saying here she Cherry's saying, uh, kind of
stupid on purpose? Yeah, Like, how could she be involved?
She doesn't have the wherewithal to be involved.
Speaker 6 (59:00):
Right, She's got that mouth open, that eyes real wide,
almost like hypnotizing you a little bit with her eyes
wide open, her mouth open, her head to the side.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Oh, she reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes. You know, Elizabeth
Holmes had very intent the who's now the who had
the set up a company in California with the yeah,
(59:33):
exactly what was it?
Speaker 6 (59:35):
Their? No, what was it?
Speaker 2 (59:37):
That's right? Yeah, that's the name of the company. And
now she's in federal prison for fraud. But she had.
Speaker 6 (59:44):
Intense, same intense look and mannered all put on her voices,
put on she has a really high voice, Elizabeth, and
then she would put on this low authority, thoritative voice.
She thought it brought gave her power. She's a scary person.
(01:00:06):
So is Wendy the psychopaths.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Oh yeah, well definitely if yeah, if she's able to
kill a loving father, even someone she admits was a
loving father, to do that to her own children, it's
almost incomprehensible, except that it also happened to me. But yeah,
(01:00:33):
it's completely selfish, lacking empathy, and I do think that,
you know, it's interesting. Jeffrey Lacrosse said she's able to
cast spells. He said he was under her spell. I
think she does have the ability to. I mean, it's
(01:00:56):
hard to feel that watching her, knowing all the evidence.
I don't feel like she's has a spell over me,
for instance, But in her real life, apparently, especially with men,
I don't know that she's capable of pasting spells over them.
Speaker 6 (01:01:14):
Yeah, that's a great point. A lot of these murderers
have that kind of charisma. We were just talking about
Jeffrey McDonald today. I mean, he was able to con
his psychiatrists that evaluated him. Many women, They all these
killers have a supporter sometimes supporters, and I places Wendy
(01:01:39):
I would say, is the most universally hated, but in
her personal life she she has garnered uh supporters who
are still loyal to her.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Your mom, this.
Speaker 6 (01:01:55):
Is some form of Charlie's trial where it gets it's
going to get heated.
Speaker 9 (01:02:00):
You talked to her today, yesterday I talked to her
yesterday in her emails, and we referenced one of them.
While you've been here on the stand. She talks about
you giving performances and playing roles. Did you discuss anything
about what you would do here today in court with
your mother?
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
No?
Speaker 9 (01:02:26):
Were you involved in any way in the plot to
kill your ex.
Speaker 12 (01:02:29):
Husband, absolutely not.
Speaker 9 (01:02:31):
Did you know what was going to happen, but maybe
not know the details.
Speaker 12 (01:02:35):
I knew nothing.
Speaker 9 (01:02:36):
Is that why you went to the crime scene on
the day of the homicide?
Speaker 12 (01:02:39):
I did not go to the crime scene on the
day of the homicide.
Speaker 9 (01:02:42):
Do you know who all was involved in the murder?
Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Well?
Speaker 12 (01:02:45):
I learned today, but at the time no.
Speaker 9 (01:02:49):
Okay, have you ever privately confronted your brother about his
role or possible role in the murder?
Speaker 12 (01:02:57):
My attorney has advised me not to have conversations with
any of my family about the case.
Speaker 9 (01:03:07):
But you had a close relationship with your brother at
the time of the murder, right.
Speaker 12 (01:03:12):
I absolutely had a close relationship with my brother.
Speaker 9 (01:03:15):
And you're how soon after the murder did your lord
advise you not to talk to your family about it?
Speaker 12 (01:03:21):
In twenty sixteen?
Speaker 9 (01:03:23):
Okay, So what about the two years in between? Did
you talk to him about it? Then?
Speaker 12 (01:03:27):
I mean, I talked to him about the fact that
a murder occurred, But I guess I don't understand the question.
Speaker 9 (01:03:34):
But you never talked to him about the suspicions you
raised in a law enforcement interview that your brother might
have done it.
Speaker 12 (01:03:42):
No, I did not.
Speaker 9 (01:03:48):
You suspected your brother could have been a part of this, right.
Speaker 12 (01:03:51):
I suspected lots of people could have been a part
of it, but he was one of the people.
Speaker 9 (01:03:56):
Right.
Speaker 12 (01:03:57):
While I was talking with law enforcement for six hours,
terrified out of my mind, I offered them every possible
idea I could come up with.
Speaker 9 (01:04:05):
Right, and one of the possible ideas was that your
brother could have murdered your child's father.
Speaker 12 (01:04:12):
I didn't really believe that was possible.
Speaker 9 (01:04:21):
It was part of the plot for you to be
able to have plausible deniability about this.
Speaker 12 (01:04:26):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 9 (01:04:28):
Is it better for both you and your brother if
you don't know the details of this.
Speaker 12 (01:04:34):
I don't even understand the question that you're asking me.
Speaker 9 (01:04:36):
When did you first become aware that you might be
a suspect.
Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
In this case?
Speaker 12 (01:04:41):
I mean, as the ex wife, I assumed I was
a suspect from the beginning.
Speaker 9 (01:04:50):
What was your first thought when you were asked if
anyone might have murdered Dan Markel for your benefit?
Speaker 12 (01:04:57):
I thought, oh, my god, maybe if I hadn't divorced him,
he would still be alive. Maybe this is my fault
because I complained to the wrong person. Maybe Danny gave
a student a bad grade and they came after him.
I just was trying to think of who possibly could
have wanted to hurt him.
Speaker 9 (01:05:17):
But you didn't say any of that before. The first
thing you said was Charlie right.
Speaker 12 (01:05:24):
I don't think so.
Speaker 9 (01:05:25):
Page twenty five of your interview Mine five through fifteen.
Do you have any reason to dispute Page twenty five,
Not five hours into it you say Charlie might have
done it? Right?
Speaker 12 (01:05:39):
Can I see?
Speaker 9 (01:05:39):
Please? You may? This is going to be cap.
Speaker 6 (01:05:50):
What do you think she stopped so often and demands
that she see the actual evidence. I mean, she knows,
she's it's there, George is not gonna.
Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
It does seem like it prolongs, Yeah, it seems like
it prolongs the issue. Maybe she's used to that kind
of denial in her regular life and she's having trouble
controlling it. I don't know. I'm just speculating, but if anything.
Speaker 6 (01:06:29):
About it, she's so time to think about what her
next lie is going to be here, so I would think.
And also it's obviously a technique because in Karen Reid's trial,
they were illegally giving their expert witnesses tips in between,
(01:06:49):
so the testimony was you know, held over for the
next day, and in between they gave their tips to
always ask for that the evidence and look at it.
And so obviously it's a technique to delay, give you
some more time to think about it and come up
with your next lie. Obviously, I mean, that's what I think.
Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Uh oh, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 12 (01:07:43):
What I say here is that he would never do it.
Right under the highlighted part, I say, no, he would never.
Speaker 9 (01:07:55):
H Page twenty five, line five through fifteen. I mean
my brother, the one his name is Charlie, the one
I'm really close to. He makes a lot of jokes
(01:08:17):
in that taste. And it was a joke he made.
He bought the TV for me this morning that got broken,
and then I was talking to him about whether it
made sense to pay or fix it or whether I
should get a new one, And it was always like
it was always his joke, that like he knew that
Danny always treated me badly, and it was always his joke.
(01:08:38):
He said, I looked into hiring a hit man and
it was cheaper to get you this TV, so instead
I got you this TV. And you do say, you
don't think he would do it, but can we agree?
You brought up his name on page twenty five of
the interview he did when asked, would you ever ask
someone to do something like this? Say not in a
(01:09:00):
million years. When asked, okay, do you think someone would
do this for your benefit without asking you? You say no?
And when is starts to ask you, what good does
it serve? You say, I mean my brother, the one
his name is Charlie. Isn't that how it went?
Speaker 12 (01:09:19):
This is the transcript, but I think there's also inaccuracies
in the transcription.
Speaker 9 (01:09:24):
Boy, all right, do you want the culpable parties held
accountable for murdering the father of your children?
Speaker 12 (01:09:38):
Absolutely? I'm grateful they're already in jail.
Speaker 9 (01:09:40):
But not if it's your family.
Speaker 12 (01:09:43):
It's not my family.
Speaker 9 (01:09:44):
I mean somebody hired them, right, not necessarily, somebody paid them.
Speaker 12 (01:09:49):
I learned something this morning.
Speaker 9 (01:09:50):
Yeah, me too. You didn't want them held accountable if
it was your family members? Didn't you tell law enforcement that?
That's not what I told law enforcement? What did you
tell law enforcement?
Speaker 12 (01:10:01):
I told them that the person who did this should
be held responsible and that I had nothing to do with.
Speaker 9 (01:10:06):
It, page lines seven through twelve. If somebody tried to
kill my ex husband. They should be prosecuted to the
full extent of the law, the investigator says, regardless of
who it is. And your answer is, I mean, it
would be different if I thought it were my brother.
Speaker 12 (01:10:24):
But I don't think it was my family. It's different now,
isn't it. No, it's not different. That's exactly different today. No,
that's none of further questions.
Speaker 6 (01:10:35):
I mean, it's just such an iconic direct. It feels
more like a cross, but it's a it's a direct.
Here he or she is talking about let me make
sure I'm in the right area. Yeah, here she is
(01:11:02):
talking about these same it gets more in depth. It's
much more in depth this time. It's a much longer direct.
Speaker 12 (01:11:14):
Okay, in the car, they told you what they said,
your ex husband has been shot.
Speaker 9 (01:11:20):
Okay, so that you learned that information prior to getting
into the interview room.
Speaker 6 (01:11:27):
What do you think about that, Alison, This is the
first time we've heard that, because when she's told yes, yes,
breaks down.
Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Yeah, she claims, and that we see it in an
interview room that she she has that message from a friend.
But now she's changed her story that they told her
when they asked her to come with them. So yeah,
there's an inconsistency right there.
Speaker 6 (01:11:57):
Right, So, I mean, either you would I mean, would
you have such a big, a big reaction second time around.
I don't know. I don't think so I don't believe
a reaction if it was the first time. At the
police station, she pretends to cry, but then she can
(01:12:17):
talk in full voice.
Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
So yeah, Donna and Wendy are both dry criers. Yeah,
even you know, first I and Donna's conviction, I thought
that she was crying, like crying for herself, but watching
it again, she's not even crying for herself. She's pure anger.
Speaker 6 (01:12:44):
Let's let's watch that. Hold on, let's watch Donna's just
let me see if I can find it really quickly.
If I can find it, if I can do it quickly,
that would be great. We can just watch it. I
(01:13:05):
was like twelve, I was alive for like twelve hours
that day. It was so wild. Yeah, just a couple
of minutes short of twelve hours.
Speaker 5 (01:13:13):
Hold on.
Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (01:13:16):
We were waiting around for it, and I thought it
would come back pretty quickly. So we were watching other
things while we were waiting. We were about to watch here,
we are here, it is hear anything. Let me just
(01:13:39):
make sure that the now Selman shaking Georgia Kapelman's hand.
So he just told everyone not to have a big reaction,
and then Donna has a big reaction, so crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
He's yeah, she had to be a monister over and
over again by Judge evert unreal, unreal, and it's a tantrum.
Speaker 6 (01:14:10):
But we never know we could get it.
Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
He's even stomping her feet, right.
Speaker 6 (01:14:18):
Is she had to go great prosecutor.
Speaker 14 (01:14:25):
The Drews.
Speaker 6 (01:14:33):
Yeah, when I was a juror, I was. I made
sure I looked at the defendant that we I'm guilty
because I didn't want to choreograph. You don't no one
apparently none of them looked at her and Charlie's same thing.
Bringing the jury right now.
Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
Please reminated when the jurors come in this.
Speaker 6 (01:15:00):
Particular time, Phil Marcel with a long close of his eyes. There,
I didn't notice that before.
Speaker 8 (01:15:15):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 7 (01:15:36):
M.
Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
But please, rits, as the jury reached an anamous verdict,
if you please can hand a verdict form to the ball.
Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
H h.
Speaker 9 (01:15:58):
H m hm.
Speaker 3 (01:16:01):
Having reviewed the verdict form, it is in its proper
order at this time I will publish the verdict. We
The jury find as follows as the count one of
the indictment, first degree murder, the defendant is guilty of
first degree murder, Missus Adelsen, control yourself.
Speaker 6 (01:16:29):
Oh oh my god, just to see it again. She
seems like she knows it's coming. It's almost like someone
about to be I don't know, firing squad or something.
That's the image I get. What about you, It's like
she knows it's coming.
Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
Her entitlement continues to run through this verdict. I mean,
Judge Everett has had many people in his courtroom receive
a verdict stoically, and the level of composure between Donna
Adelson and then Ruth and Phil in their impact statement
(01:17:11):
is stark.
Speaker 6 (01:17:15):
Great point, great point. Time we see, look, she looks
like she knows it's coming. So like that if you
asked me, I wouldn't say that's a woman waiting for
good news.
Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
The jury find as follows, as to count one of
the indictment, first degree murder, the defendant is guilty of
first degree murder.
Speaker 4 (01:17:43):
Missus Adelson, control yourself.
Speaker 6 (01:17:51):
And then it's like a toddler that you're right. They're
all trying to control the toddler.
Speaker 15 (01:17:55):
Oh I knew this was gonna happen. Oh, tell us
he stupid. What a stupid verdict. It's so stupid, so
that you're a saying, you know, that's what's going on
in her mind.
Speaker 6 (01:18:09):
She really thought she was going to get away with it.
Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
It's delusional. They were delusional, Like I think they were
genuinely delusional. It's incomprehensible. But in Charlie's trial, because he's
giving away his commissary and they hadn't booked their plan
to vi anam but until after the verdicts, they're so
competent that it's going to be found not guilty, which
(01:18:34):
I just like, did they watch the same trial that
we did? I guess, even though in a sense they're
intelligent people, this narcissism I think is accompanied by well superiority.
They think they can get away with it, so it
is kind of a sense of delusion.
Speaker 6 (01:18:57):
All yeah, Well, his case, it wasn't quite a biggest,
biggest case as it is now. I remember watching it
and there were about there were a good bunch of
Charlie supporters saying he did great on the stand in
the in the I mean, I know the pre TV
(01:19:18):
chat is always very defendant friendly. Always no matter who
it is, whether it's Robert Derris, there's always going to
be someone hoping a murderer gets off. But people felt that,
I think, like Charlie and Donna, that if he had
a story, that's all he needed. It didn't have to
(01:19:38):
be They forgot the reasonable part of doubt. They could
create doubt of any kind, not a reasonable doubt in
the jury that he would get off. So he had
a he had. I think Donna had a big part
in writing his defense, like she I think she's the
author of this whole extortion story, and I think she
(01:20:00):
gave it to Dan rash Bound and had Charlie memorize it.
He didn't memorize a script the way Darina Bernhard had to,
but he put it in his own words and really
knew the evidence, and they thought he was so well prepared,
and she believed so much in Dan Rashbaund. When you
watch his the way he takes the verdict, you can
(01:20:24):
see that he's really hopeful. That's someone who's hopeful that
he's going to get a good verdict. You can see
it this. I think she knew what was coming. She
hoped not She's hopeful that maybe there would be something
that it would go the other way, but she knew.
I mean, this is just pure performance.
Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Okay, back, Yeah, you know, I think that Charlie was
excessively prepared. There was even a point where he refers
to a page number, and I can a huge binder
of evidence, like refers to the line on page number
(01:21:05):
when being cross examined by Georgia Kappelman. That that's a
mistake to show that he studied it that carefully. Yeah,
he just seemed overly prepared. It didn't seem genuine.
Speaker 6 (01:21:23):
I always point to that where he says, you want
to know which which part you know? It is so cocky.
I'll tell you which part you know. Yeah, it's so
cocky evidence backwards and parts. If you you're innocent and
you lived through it, there's no need to know the evidence.
You just say when I was here or when I
was doing this, not evidence be line sixteen. I mean, silly. Okay,
(01:21:49):
here's here's more of Wendy.
Speaker 9 (01:21:52):
Yes, do you remember allowing law enforcement to take possession
of your computer? In that interview, I.
Speaker 12 (01:22:00):
Told law enforcement to search my phone, search my computer,
search my house, search my car. I was trying to
be helpful.
Speaker 9 (01:22:08):
Do you remember saying that it was okay for them
to take the computer and keep it even though you
had work things on there, because you didn't think you
would be going back to work.
Speaker 12 (01:22:18):
I remember thinking it wasn't important. I couldn't imagine my
life fell apart, So.
Speaker 9 (01:22:24):
Didn't go back to work, did you at FSU?
Speaker 12 (01:22:27):
I did actually go back, not physically present, but I
was still on the FSU payroll until December of that year.
Speaker 9 (01:22:37):
In that interview with law enforcement, did you suggest that
your parents are people who may have been angry enough
to kill Dan Markel?
Speaker 6 (01:22:46):
I suggested before she before she answers that is that
the way it works in academia. So she was on contract,
she wasn't teaching, but she still got paid till December.
Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
I think that she Yeah, she didn't have a tenure
track job. It sounds like she was on a contract
on a grant like usually those run for a year,
and even if somebody essentially stops working, I mean, it's
(01:23:23):
hard to cancel the contract. So it sounds like she
took advantage of that grant. I don't know if money
was I think she referred to it coming from a grant,
which is probably I don't know if his foundation grant
or taxpayer grant, but uh yeah, she she was then
taking advantage of whoever was paying that, the taxpayer or
(01:23:47):
the students paying their tuition. Yeah. I think she just
let the contract run its course. But wasn't even in town.
Speaker 9 (01:23:59):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (01:23:59):
Wow, So she played the victims so well. Like Jeffrey
Leacas says, I can't come into work, I'm in mourning.
She took her mourning leaves, a new kind of leave
defined by Wendy Edelson. She was in mourning for the
ex husband she killed. Okay, crazy.
Speaker 12 (01:24:21):
Did a lot of people who could have been angry
enough to kill Danny?
Speaker 9 (01:24:25):
And were some of the people my parents? Yes, But
you said in the interview that you didn't think they
were capable of it, didn't you?
Speaker 6 (01:24:34):
I did.
Speaker 9 (01:24:35):
If your mom wasn't capable of it, did she have
anyone that she could enlist to assist her.
Speaker 12 (01:24:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (01:24:45):
What was your first thought when you were asked if
anyone might have murdered Dan Markel for your benefit.
Speaker 12 (01:24:52):
I thought maybe a crazed friend or a former student.
Speaker 9 (01:24:58):
It's not what you said, though, isn't I.
Speaker 12 (01:25:00):
Don't remember exactly what I said first.
Speaker 9 (01:25:03):
You said Charlie, right.
Speaker 12 (01:25:06):
If that's what I said, then you have it there.
But I don't remember who I listed first.
Speaker 9 (01:25:10):
Okay, can you at least tell the jury you definitely
did say Charlie as one of those people I did.
Do you remember saying if somebody tried to kill my
ex husband, they should be prosecuted to the full extent
of the law. Yes, and is says regardless of who
(01:25:31):
it is. And do you recall your answer?
Speaker 12 (01:25:34):
I do recall my answer.
Speaker 9 (01:25:36):
What was that?
Speaker 12 (01:25:38):
I think I was hoping it wasn't anyone in my family,
and so that idea that it was someone in my
family gave me pause.
Speaker 9 (01:25:46):
All right, but that wasn't your answer, was it?
Speaker 12 (01:25:50):
I mean, I don't remember a word for word.
Speaker 6 (01:25:52):
But she remembers word for word what she said. But
she's giving the reason why she said it instead of
the answer. And I feel like the woman behind Georgia
Kapelman and the black listening to it not blessed.
Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Yeah, yeah, somebody writes somebody right. I'm sorry I'm missing
a lot of the chat, but Wendy flexes her vulnerability.
She's very keen to deflect any guilt, and she seems
empty inside and authentic and all surface. Yeah, I agree
with that.
Speaker 6 (01:26:28):
That's a great description, perfect right on. And here she
here she is. You know what it looks like she's
tearing up at this point. I think she's so just
nervous for herself. Literally, not tears for her mother or
her brother or Dan Marcel. It's all for herself. She's
(01:26:50):
so nervous in the courthouse. I'm sure she couldn't get
out of there fast enough.
Speaker 12 (01:26:55):
But that's that was my sentiment at the time.
Speaker 9 (01:26:58):
Was your answer for council? This is law enforcement interview,
page one, twenty two, line seven through twelve. If somebody
tried to kill my ex husband, they should be prosecuted
to the full extent of the law. Question regardless of
who it is answer, I mean, it would be different
if I thought it were my brother. Did you call
(01:27:19):
your mom from the interview room at Tallahassee Police Department?
Speaker 12 (01:27:22):
I did?
Speaker 9 (01:27:23):
And did she answer the phone?
Speaker 12 (01:27:25):
She did?
Speaker 9 (01:27:26):
When she answered, Did she advise you that your dad
was in the shower?
Speaker 12 (01:27:32):
I don't remember whether my dad was in the shower.
Speaker 9 (01:27:35):
You asked her to sit down, Do you remember that?
Speaker 12 (01:27:37):
I do?
Speaker 9 (01:27:39):
And by asking her to sit down with that signify
to her that this was going to be something serious
she were going to reveal or say.
Speaker 12 (01:27:47):
I was concerned about her age and if she were
standing that she could you know, hurt herself if she
fell down.
Speaker 9 (01:27:54):
Okay, And do you recall that she at that point
asked if she could put you on speakerphone.
Speaker 12 (01:28:01):
I don't remember, but that sounds plausible.
Speaker 9 (01:28:03):
What was the purpose of putting the phone on speaker
if you know.
Speaker 12 (01:28:08):
I would be guessing, But so my dad could hear too?
Speaker 9 (01:28:11):
But wasn't Dad in the shower? Or you don't remember
that part?
Speaker 12 (01:28:14):
I don't remember if my dad was in the showers.
Speaker 9 (01:28:16):
Anyone else there to your knowledge?
Speaker 12 (01:28:18):
I don't think so. It was Charlie there to your knowledge,
I don't think so.
Speaker 9 (01:28:22):
Did you ask your mom in that telephone conversation to
tell Charlie what was going on?
Speaker 12 (01:28:26):
I think I did. I didn't want to make any
more phone calls.
Speaker 9 (01:28:31):
And your mom took the news pretty well, didn't she
this phone call?
Speaker 12 (01:28:35):
I wouldn't say she took the news well. I think
she was upset.
Speaker 9 (01:28:39):
Did you say something different in your law enforcement interview
after you got off the phone with her?
Speaker 12 (01:28:43):
I don't think I did. I don't think I said
something like that.
Speaker 9 (01:28:46):
Didn't you say, page two sixty five, line five through six,
quote my mom handled that pretty well.
Speaker 12 (01:28:56):
I may have said that, I can check it. Can
you tell me the lining again.
Speaker 9 (01:29:00):
Yes, ma'am, page two sixty five, line five and six.
Speaker 12 (01:29:05):
Yes, that's what I said.
Speaker 9 (01:29:07):
And then page two eighty, line twenty two and twenty three.
Did you also say, well, my parents sounded really surprised.
So that's at least a relief.
Speaker 12 (01:29:19):
Yes, I see that here.
Speaker 9 (01:29:21):
No further questions, just a moment on.
Speaker 6 (01:29:30):
Okay, So that's that's a good place to leave it there.
But you see the difference, certainly. I think it's a
stark difference from the first from Charlie Edelson's trial.
Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
No the way, yeah, yeah, she was cocky. Now she's rattled.
Speaker 6 (01:30:00):
So Georgia Capel was not even going to push her.
She's just rattled being there. There's no need to push her,
I mean, the way she did at the end of
the end of Charlie Edelson's trial, there is no need
to do it. I'm gonna end with a short victim
(01:30:24):
impact letter, where I usually do. This is just a
short one for today. This is written to the Honorable
James C. Hankinson. Your honor Dan Markel was my friend
and colleague, and I still can't figure out how to
be whole without him. He was present and intuitive and
(01:30:46):
loving and nudging. He found time for me in our
relationship in the most creative manner, and performed friendship in
ways that always felt genuine and from the right place.
Although I literally wrote a book about friendship, I have
always been chastened to know that he knew more about
(01:31:09):
it than I ever would or could. I've gone from
intimidated by Dan when I first met him to holy
admiring him in short order. But I now have to
remain in a permanent state of grieving. I feel cheated
(01:31:29):
because our friendship is now stuck in time. There was
so much growing to do together, and I miss his
companionship so much. He's still teaching me and reaching from
beyond the grave. I can reread him, think about what
he would have, what he would say about personal or
(01:31:53):
professional challenges, conjure his good will in these small ways.
He lives on, and I take comfort that his vivacity
in life left reverberations in depth. But I am in mourning. Still,
my life at work and end at home is thinner,
(01:32:16):
less vital, less analyzed, and less shared. I miss my
friend Ethan and this is Ethan j Leeb.
Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
That's beautiful. I love how you end on. It's an
impact statement every time. Yes's important not to forget the victim.
Who are the victims?
Speaker 6 (01:32:46):
Thanks so thanks so much something. I really get a
lot out of reading those letters. I hope everybody does too.
So before I go, just one more shout out to
get your emails out to da wagstaff and tell him
(01:33:07):
to prosecute the murderer of Nancy Galvanni, Alison Galvani's mother.
There is the email is also in the description of
this episode, and a template you can just copy and
paste into an email, or you can write your own
even better. But let's keep on pushing and we're making
(01:33:33):
some headway. Guys, we're having a rolling back. So hopefully
this will come to the outcome we want, but it
won't without all of your help. So we do need
your help in getting these emails out. It really does
not take more than fifteen minutes, five minutes, ten minutes,
(01:33:57):
does not have to be long, just has to be understandable.
What the message is, let's get this case prosecuted. It's
been a cold case for decades and it's really unacceptable.
There's a lot of evidence against your dad, Noe.
Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Yeah, absolutely overwhelming evidence. In fact, the lead detective has
even expressed it. Your mom's case is solved. We just
need the prosecution to be approved.
Speaker 6 (01:34:31):
So yeah, and if we can get this done, there
will be a big party on this channel.
Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
So well, thank you so much for bern.
Speaker 6 (01:34:44):
It was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:34:47):
Thank you, Thank you everyone. Yeah, you Faster such a
wonderful supportive community. I'm so grateful to you and the community. Faster.
Speaker 6 (01:34:57):
Thanks so much. I think we have the best chat
on YouTube, but obviously I'm very biased. All Right, have
a great night, everybody else, see you tomorrow at six.
Thank you so much, Alison. This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
Thank you again.
Speaker 9 (01:35:13):
Good night.
Speaker 14 (01:35:30):
Donna. What a speech you're hire.
Speaker 13 (01:35:36):
You got it a murder because you wanted to raise
your daughter's kids. Tama has he is just to stop
on the way to civilization. Miami is where all the
fancy people are.
Speaker 14 (01:35:55):
The TV is about that. You can't get away from
that tote tato uh.
Speaker 13 (01:36:04):
You know the guy you pay then you can't.
Speaker 14 (01:36:08):
Get away from that, Oh Dan, what to stitch your head?
Speaker 13 (01:36:15):
You thought chill was just for the little people, but
now you're saw like it's with the locked up proof.
You're a grandmother is locked down and you're one way
ride to.
Speaker 14 (01:36:27):
Feed on your blue Dana. What a stitch your head?
Speaker 9 (01:36:46):
Your family are.
Speaker 13 (01:36:47):
Exiled from the social circles you swam in. We all
know you never made that banana bread. You're offered to
babysit Ford, but you soon the nag in license plates.
Speaker 14 (01:37:03):
And thinking a double could a bit o? You had
to plan a murderer who ha
Donna Agelson from Coral Springs, Florida.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I want to hear all about you, Donna. Let's go well,
I'm a domestic coordinator.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
A domestic coordinator.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yes, I'm responsible for the activities, classes and lessons of
my son Robert, who was sixteen, Charlie who was twelve,
Whendy who was ten, my husband Harvey, who's in the audience,
and my dog's Sam.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
All right, and how old is Sam?
Speaker 5 (00:25):
Five?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Five?
Speaker 6 (00:26):
Cold?
Speaker 7 (00:27):
Give our best, ty nice to have your hair crop
and bottles.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Work, don consonance are gonna be worth.
Speaker 8 (00:36):
So I'm glad to have this again.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Personally.
Speaker 7 (00:38):
Isn't categories still your turn?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Letter beats?
Speaker 9 (00:41):
Hell?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Help?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
No hell, Donna, m yes, there are two ms. Let
him come up your five seconds person Ellen okay, yes, m.
Speaker 7 (01:01):
Mustard maker, Yes there's one age time starts now.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Mm hmm Donna, yes, mister.
Speaker 10 (01:28):
Nice m h You are listening to the ROBERTA. Glass
True Crime Report putting the true back in true crime.
Speaker 6 (01:51):
From New York City.
Speaker 9 (01:53):
ROBERTA. Glass is now on the record.
Speaker 6 (01:59):
H oh okay, as you can see those watching on YouTube,
Hello your latex spouse, Hello, Miss Marple, Hello Nadia, I
(02:25):
am not alone I am with my special guest, Alison Galvani.
He's going to give us an update on the cold
case of the murder of her mother, Nancy Galvani, some
pretty encouraging news or I find it encouraging, Alison, take it,
(02:45):
take it away.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Welcome, No, thank you. Yeah, I received your phone call
from Morris Maya, who is leading the prosecution, well hopefully
prosecut of my father. Finally, after more than forty years,
he is waiting for the sign off from his Da Wagstaff.
(03:13):
Your emails have been and Roberta's advocacy for justice have
been incredibly powerful in galvanizing action of the last year
the renewed investigation of my father. And there are many
people in the police department, well the entire police department
(03:36):
up to the top. We're passionate about this case. Now
Prosecutors Maya and Lucas King are also passionate. So there
as we're hoping for the sign off from Stephen Wagstaff.
Apparently the final decision will be made in a few weeks,
(03:59):
So if each message is a reminder that the case
is not forgotten. And mister my actually encouraged me to
he said, how helpful the emails were in allocation of
resources and you know, advocacy for my mother, so he
encouraged even more emails. So anyone who is willing, I
(04:25):
am so grateful. There's plenty of Oh yes, thank you,
that's the the email for mister Wagstaff. Yeah, there's overwhelming
evidence all the afford So I've spoken to believe that
to be the case. And I'm just really hopeful and
thank you, thankful to all of you shown solidarity in
(04:46):
this quest for justice.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
So if you have written an email, send another one
I did today. You can just say I'm writing again
to express my wish or urge you to prosecute the
(05:13):
murderer of Nancy Calvani. This has been a cold case
for too long. I put a you can just copy
and paste it in the description of this episode. You
can find kind of just a what do you call
it form letter? I don't know a template, and you
(05:34):
can just copy it, paste it, sign your name to it,
and send it off. I also put Wagstaff's email It's
s Wagstaff at smcgov dot org. So if you actually
misplace it, it's on the internet. Look up da Wagstaff forget.
(05:55):
But this is the time, we've made great progress in
moving this far.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Word.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
This has really been a cult case too long. Allison
and her family and everyone who loved Nancy Galvani deserve justice,
and I think it's time for us to use our
voices in a positive way and get this done.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, thank you so much for Berta. This would mean
a lot, even to my children. They feel the absence
of my grandmother or grandmother that they never met. In fact, well, ROBERTI,
you can tell me this too. Much of the tangent
is on the Adolesen case. But I wrote, and she
(06:40):
actually had. I had correspondence with Georgia Kapelman, who you know,
I think is a hero. She I could I could
read it to you, but basically, after she's the verdict,
she made a comment, should be you? When I wrote
to her, sure, uh yeah, she said this, She replied,
(07:01):
this was very powerfullow to her. So I said, dear
miss Kaplman, I want to congratulate you on your recent
conviction of Donna Ledolson. Your steadfast commitment to justice has
been remarkable to watch, and I know how much your
work means not only to the legal system, but to
(07:24):
everyone who has been following this case closely. You said afterwards,
this was in the press conference that really struck me,
and I wanted to This is what I wanted to
convey to her. You said afterwards that you hadn't done
Benjamin Lincoln any favors. I believe you had. By ensuring
accountability for their father's murder, you've given them something invaluable,
(07:46):
the truth affirmed in a court of law, and the
knowledge that people were willing to fight for their father's
memory that he could no longer fight for himself. That
matters deeply, even if mates take time for them to
fully realize. I write to you also from a place
of personal experience. When I was five years old, my
mother was murdered, and the overwhelming evidence shows that it
(08:07):
was my father who killed her. Yet more than four
decades later, he has never been brought to justice. I
was raised by him. As the boys were being raised
by Wendy. I was raised by him, and that experience
has been a lifelong source of anguish. Living under the
control of a person who took my mother's life, and
then during the silence and de nile that surrounded it.
(08:28):
I'm still waiting for the day when my mother's case
will be brought before a jury. I think the outcome
you achieved in the Markel case gives me hope that justice,
even when long and laid, is possible. You have given
Benjamin Lincoln a gift, whether they see it now or not,
and in doing so, you've given strength of people like
me who continue to fight for justice for our own
(08:49):
loved ones with gratitude and admiration.
Speaker 6 (08:53):
Oh that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, and she replied, yeah, h she said, oh, she
said she thanked me and said it was really powerful
moving because I hope that Benjamin and Lincoln aren't in
a situation where they're still advocating her full justice with
(09:21):
their father. In other words, you know, Wendy, it's very comfortable,
like Wendy's being. The boys are being raised by the
person who's culpable in there the other parents murder.
Speaker 11 (09:34):
And she made me feel even sad that she thought that.
It sounded like she thought she'd, you know, she's something
monumental for justice, but hadn't as she's like.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Her own words were that she's aware she hasn't done
any favors today for Benjamin Lincoln, but it is I
really want her to know that almost out of everyone.
I feel like she's doing this most for Benjamin Lincoln.
Perhaps that's just because I'm in, you know, the analogous situation,
(10:08):
but it will mean a lot to them. I'm sure
once the denial lifts.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
Right then, you know, you can't even imagine. I'm sure
Georgia Kapelman and Tallahassee had been villainized. So you think
in that family, yes.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
In the Adolesen family, yes, exactly. Yeah, I think the
boys as I was of living, you know, with gas lighting,
and but I think they will the denial eventually will
lift for them and it will be a source of peace.
(10:49):
But that their father received full justice. And you know,
some people talk about I even heard, yeah, multiple people
talking about like for the sake of the boys, or
take away their other parent. That argument was made in
my case, But it's not another loving parent. Any parent
(11:13):
who is involved in the premeditated murder of one parent.
A loving parent is, to put it mildly, not putting
the interest of the child care amount and being raised
by someone like that is not healthy. Yeah, it's a
(11:38):
source of anguish that I lived with my father for
so long, with him disparaging her memory, and I imagine
things like that or happening for the Martel voice.
Speaker 6 (11:55):
So I mean, we watched the the murder, the case
of the murder of Dan Markel from Afar, and we
watch the Agolson family get indicted and convicted from Afar,
and we really have no control over whether Wendy is
(12:16):
arrested or indicted. But this is a case where we
really do have some say in whether the killer gets
indicted and prosecuted. So I really encourage everyone to use
their power, use their voice, right, da Wagstaff, It's S
(12:39):
for Stephen Wagstaff. So S Wagstaff all one word s
W A G S A S T A F f
E at s mc gov dot org. I couldn't have
messed that up more. But it's in the description of
this episode and also a template emails and you don't
(13:04):
have to follow that. You can write your own or
you can just copy and paste and send it off.
You could do it while you're watching this episode. What
do you I just have one question for you, Allison,
what did you feel when you heard Jeffrey Lea Cass
say that Wendy had asked him about the children? When
(13:28):
do children get memories? So obviously she was making sure
that her children wouldn't have any memory of their father's murder.
What were your thoughts on that?
Speaker 8 (13:42):
Right?
Speaker 6 (13:42):
Well, I.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So the oldest boy was just a few days away
from his fifth birthday. I was five, closer to six
when my mother was killed. I have very vivid memories.
I think the trauma encapsulates it. And even if the
boy don't have memories of their father, that itself is
tragic and the trauma early childhood development, the trauma of
(14:10):
something like that happening will affect them even if they
don't have explicit memories. Like I think, there have been
repercussions in my life of an anxious person. I do
feel that I'm always concerned that because you know, my
mother's death is so sudden. It's yeah, I have a
(14:35):
lot of anxiety that the people that I love most
will you know, suddenly be gone. And you know that's
not I try to contain that, you know, and I
have a daughter in college and a yeah, I have
(14:57):
to have to. It's a struggle to handle that anxiety,
but I try to not let it affect my parenting.
You know.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
Also, I mean it's a hole that you're grieving for
the parent that you never that you only had limited
time with for the rest of your life. I mean,
it's just a hole that a wound that really just
doesn't heal. You always miss your the parent that was murdered.
So just so odd that you would say, well, if
(15:33):
they don't remember the actual shooting, that they they somehow
that they would be immune from this heinous act. Your
late text spouse says, will be part of the rewatch crew.
Thank you, your late tex spouse, and all my wonderful moderators.
(15:56):
I'll be part of the rewatch crew at work tonight,
have work. Prayers for Charlie Kirk speaking of his children,
will remember, will be permanently wounded by this too, his
his wife Erica, and their two babies. Sad day for
(16:16):
our country, certainly is that free speech in this country,
not matter what side of the political aisle you were on.
It's a very sad day for our country. The free
speech now means possible death. It always has. But wait,
does this bring it home? And it shouldn't. Shouldn't mean that.
(16:42):
Love and peace to you all, certainly, very very unsettling day,
upsetting day, and I echo those sentiments. All right, do
you want to watch with me or do you want
to hang out or do you do you have to go? Allison,
I'm going to get into Wendy. I don't know if
you want to hang around. I know I didn't really
(17:03):
prepare that you're welcome to go, come and go or whatever.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I have some flexibility. It's up to you. ROBERTA.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
Well, I just wanted to show the difference. So I
wanted to talk about Wendy's red flags and how different
her testimony was from last time we saw her. So
we're just finishing up Wendy Aedolson's testimony, so I wanted
to start with I don't know why it seems so
obvious now, but Charlie her testimony at hold on one second,
(17:40):
Charlie Itolson's trial. This is just a little compilation here
that long crime put together. So I'm going to start
with the questions about the TV and we'll compare them
to this time. Just look at the demeanor. So last
time we saw a very defiant, peppy whend Edelson on
(18:05):
this stand, a lot of confidence, very cocky as always,
not that she's ever been a good liar. But here
take a listen to now she answers this question about
her conversation with Charlie around her broken TV, and then
we'll look at her compared to her weary. The word
(18:30):
weary wrings in my head, weary, nervous. She seems to
know that it might be she might be next, She
might be up on the stand next as a defendant.
She takes the stand or sitting in the chair that
her mother is sitting in. So she's watched first her
(18:50):
brother get convicted, now her mother. She's the last woman standing,
and she had to know that she's testifying with a
limited immunity TL. But that doesn't save her from being prosecuted.
It only stops them from investigating and prosecuting her for
(19:14):
anything she says in the stand. Taka, listen to the
how she answers the question about the TV.
Speaker 9 (19:19):
Speak to him.
Speaker 12 (19:21):
It would have been right after the repair guys were there,
because that's when I called him to tell him, ask
him whether I should get the TV repaired or buy
a new TV, so it would have been warning.
Speaker 9 (19:31):
How long did you talk to him?
Speaker 12 (19:34):
I don't remember.
Speaker 9 (19:35):
Is eighteen minutes sound incorrect?
Speaker 12 (19:38):
That sounds reasonable?
Speaker 9 (19:40):
Okay? Did you talk to him about other things other
than just the TV?
Speaker 12 (19:44):
I really don't remember. What else I talked to him
about but probably maybe I would have asked him about
his work or we would have caught up.
Speaker 9 (19:51):
Did you happen to mention Dan Markel's plans to go
to New York the next day?
Speaker 12 (19:55):
I don't see why I would have.
Speaker 9 (19:57):
Did you have WhatsApp on your phone at that time?
Speaker 12 (20:01):
I don't know if in twenty fourteen I had What's Up?
Now we use it for all the parent chats at school,
so it's everybody seems to have it, But I don't
know if everybody had it back in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 9 (20:12):
What is what'sapp? What's Up?
Speaker 6 (20:16):
He didn't have any of this? Smiling people, please kind
of testimony this time?
Speaker 9 (20:20):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So here, here's rattle now.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
Yeah, here's her answering the very similar question in her
mother's trial. Her mother, Donna Ingolson's trial for the murderer
of Dan mark Out. Take a take a look.
Speaker 9 (20:38):
Did you talk to your brother Charlie on the morning
of the murder?
Speaker 12 (20:42):
I did?
Speaker 9 (20:43):
And does an eighteen minute conversation at nine thirty am
that day sound correct?
Speaker 6 (20:47):
It does?
Speaker 9 (20:48):
Do you remember the nature of that conversation?
Speaker 12 (20:50):
I do. I didn't purchase the TV, so I didn't
know how much the TV cost? And so I called
him to find out if it made more sense to
get the TV repaired or buy a new TV because
I didn't know what the delta was there.
Speaker 9 (21:03):
Okay, can you tell the jury one way or the
other for sure whether you mentioned Dan Markell's travel plans
to Charlie during that eighteen minute phone call.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
I can't say for sure.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
Hold on, Allison, just aside the delta, what is the delta?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I think she's talking about like the original investment. But
she spent eighteen minutes, over eighteen minutes on the call
with Charlie asking how much does the TV cost? Originally?
It doesn't take eighteen minutes. Eighteen minutes is a fairly
long conversation.
Speaker 6 (21:40):
I mean, I mean, we can reenact this conversation right now. Hey, Allison,
you know that TV you bought me. They're telling me
that they can't repair it. What should I do now
that I can't repair it? Did you spend a lot
of money on it? I mean, what's the conversation? What
can you ask? I mean, they already told her they
can't repair it, so what are options?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah? Exactly, they.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
Go ahead?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Oh no, I just I was gonna agree. I mean,
would he say like, oh it was you know, even
if like six hundred dollars and just get a new one,
they can certainly afford it.
Speaker 6 (22:22):
What do I do now that I can't buy a
new TV?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
We have to spend all of our money on this hit.
So yeah, money might we might be a bit stretched.
So maybe you have to go without the TV. But
you're getting a hit this time instead of the TV.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Oh thank you it is? Are they on their way?
Are the TV repairmen? Hint, hint on their way? Wink wink.
I don't know. He's so odd.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Better drive by check that it's done this time?
Speaker 6 (22:55):
Yeah? Yeah, oh so none of the smiling app being
people pleasing, peppy kind of your addiction is always great.
We'll say that on the positive side, But.
Speaker 12 (23:10):
That I don't see why I would have brought it up.
Speaker 9 (23:14):
Did you have What'sapp on your phone at that time?
Speaker 6 (23:17):
I did?
Speaker 9 (23:18):
What is WhatsApp?
Speaker 12 (23:19):
What's app is a it's a phone service. It's an
app that I use when I talk to people who
live in other countries, so it's become very popular. I
think I had it at the time. I know I
certainly have it now, but it's a device to send messages.
Speaker 9 (23:39):
During the timeframe that we're talking about, which is around
the time of the murder. Did you communicate with any
of your family members through WhatsApp?
Speaker 12 (23:47):
I don't remember using what's happ unless they were traveling internationally,
because it's a way of making free calls or free texts,
when at that time making long distance calls on a
regular phone would have been very expensive.
Speaker 9 (24:00):
Did you ever communicate with Catherine mcvanama three WhatsApp?
Speaker 12 (24:03):
I don't remember ever texting her on any platform, Roberta.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
You know it came out in Donna's trial with her
friend testifying it because you know, Wendy there, I think
is lying she was using WhatsApp, but apparently you couldn't
make phone calls, and at that time it was the
twenty fifteen on WhatsApp, which is something I didn't realize,
but that came out. Kapelman used that to impeach the
(24:37):
Annie's any Cunningham friend anyway, So Wendy just said the
same thing about making phone calls.
Speaker 6 (24:46):
Yeah, strangely, no one has a fascination I did. I
thought their testimony was fascinating. Any cunning In and Roth Cutters,
they were just willing to lie for Donna so easily,
and it was clear. I mean, they were just like
accomplices sort of. Apparently Donna had texted them and said,
(25:09):
I need you to come come over. I can't tell you,
you know, talk about it on the phone, but I
just need you to come over. And Annie Cunningham said,
we're back. Just say the word like anything you need.
So if we need to say that, we communicated regularly
with you on WhatsApp, via phone or Viber, And I
(25:32):
thought she said that the reason she used Viber is
because it was free, and it's not free internationally. It
may be cheaper, but it's certainly not free. By my
investigation into.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
It, I'd never even though.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
It's used in Asian countries like it's very popular there.
So were they planning to communicate. I don't know if
they were ever really using Viber, but I wondered if
it was something that they were planning on using in
Vietnam to communicate with Annie and and Ron the accompliced couple. Walker,
(26:19):
thanks so much, so back to yeah, now, I kind
of wanted this is a very quick you could kind
of go back and forth, but it's a very quick.
See a little bit more since yeah, right, it's the
same in set of questions.
Speaker 12 (26:42):
It's kind of an app you would use for texting.
Speaker 9 (26:46):
Do you know if your brother Charlie had it at
that time?
Speaker 12 (26:48):
I have no idea if you had it at that time.
Speaker 9 (26:50):
Did you ever communicate with Charlie through What'sapp? Maybe?
Speaker 12 (26:54):
I mean, I don't know if I had it at
that time or if I had it later, I probably
would have just not sure. Yeah, I.
Speaker 6 (27:03):
Have no idea. Such a lie, because you do have
an idea she had an idea if she was texting
him via WhatsApp, she would know he had it. You
can't text to someone on what's App if the other
person doesn't have it, So there's a lie in my opinion.
Speaker 9 (27:22):
Did you have any contact of any kind with Catherine
mcbanawa on the day of Dan Markell's murder? No? Did
you ever communicate with her through WhatsApp?
Speaker 12 (27:31):
I never communicated with her at all.
Speaker 9 (27:34):
All right, let's talk about.
Speaker 6 (27:35):
Well, dec I don't believe either, what about you?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, I don't. I don't believe because when because you know,
the hit men they turned off their phone, and they
didn't because they didn't want to, you know, detect it.
Around the murder, although the police were still able to
do connect the dots. But by the time they turned
their phone on, like they you know, left Tallahassee, apparently
(28:03):
they called Katie and told them this was their very
first communication outside of the two of them that it
had been done. And Katie apparently said, I know. So
I think that Wendy drove by and saw that it
had been done and communicated that to Katie Charlie her
(28:23):
co conspirators. That's what I think happened.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
That's a fair assumption. And this is something that we
see where killers turn off their phone. Brian Coberger did
it before the murder and then turn it on after.
Amanda Knox and her boyfriend Raffie la so Lechtoe turned
off their phones together in Unison before the murder of
Meredith Kircher and turned them on again in Unison afterwards.
(28:52):
They never did that before, they never did it again,
and here we see it in this case too. So
it's not uncommon for this smart killer her to who
doesn't want to be caught, to do but then you
get caught because it's you know, you don't Maybe the
smarter thing is to do is to leave it on
at home or something. I don't know.
Speaker 9 (29:14):
Yeah, yeah, communicated with her.
Speaker 12 (29:16):
I saw her in person, but I'm saying I never
texted with her, called her, and never communicated via a
device other than in person.
Speaker 9 (29:24):
Okay, what about when you were talking about.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
Look at all these hand movements. It's almost like sign language.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah. I feel like between this trial we're seeing Hubris
turning into fear that in the next trial. She's really
rattled now because you know, new things have come out
that she probably wasn't aware that Georgia Kapelman had about,
for instance, Wendy canceling her cable. It sounds like packing
(29:55):
up her house already, the family already starting to use
the atal names of the Mark Hell name for the boys.
There's a lot that came out that implicates Wendy, And
you know, I think Georgia Kaufman has been aware all along.
And I think some of these questions are I'm going
(30:16):
to be informative for Wendy's trial.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
I think so too. I think so too. Dean Walker,
thanks so much. If I'm not sure, but thank you
or dot I was thinking it not sure if I
put it up, and thank you. Thank you so much.
Dean we have if I thank you choice, that's just
the way it's going to go today.
Speaker 9 (30:40):
Your brother, did she ever get on the phone and
speak to you?
Speaker 12 (30:42):
I don't think so.
Speaker 9 (30:44):
Okay. I want to talk about where you went when
you left your residence on the day of the murder.
You tried to turn on to Truscott, and then you
ended up where I went.
Speaker 12 (30:56):
I was supposed to go to a party that night,
to stalk the bar party, so I went to a
liquor store to pick up what they had asked for
as the present for their party. So I went to
the liquor store, I picked up the alcohol, I stopped,
I think I got gas, and then I went to
lunch to meet my friends.
Speaker 9 (31:14):
And the liquor store purchase appears to have occurred at
twelve forty nine based on the receipt. Do you have
any reason to dispute that time?
Speaker 12 (31:21):
That's right, okay.
Speaker 9 (31:22):
And then from there to the restaurant, yes, And where
was the restaurant located mosaic?
Speaker 12 (31:31):
I actually don't remember. I just remember I would go
north on Thomas Full Road, all right, So it was
and is the restaurant.
Speaker 6 (31:39):
But she didn't pick up bullet bourbon. She took it,
which was it's a bullet bourbon or another spirit. So
they asked for specifically bullet bourbon, but you could bring
another kind of alcohol. Here's the party invite, here's the
bottom of it, and there's what she bought with a
(32:01):
receive perfectly preserved, of course, but she bought bullet rye
whiskey instead. And someone left me a comment and I
don't remember this, and the victim impact statements that I
read at the end of pretty much every episode that
(32:22):
they remember someone writing that rye whiskey was Dan Markel's
favorite drink. I don't remember that. But if I I
asked to see if anyone else remembers that, I can,
of course go through the victim impact statements in check.
But do you remember that, Allison.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
No, I don't remember that. I always thought that the
the the bullet bourbon that is, yeah, that was on
the stalk to stalk the bar. The meaningful part of
all that to me is the secuitous route she took,
and they show that she had. She also had the
(33:01):
option of I guess its ABC looker was the name
of the liquor store. She had an option much closer
to the house she was now living or then living it,
but saying that she drove down she started to drive
down Trustcott Road and then she hit the prime tape.
(33:23):
She had to drive. That's not possible that she just
saw it. She had to drive a long ways when
you look at a map on Trescott Drive. And I think,
especially because the you know, there was an attempt at
a first hit that the two hitmen came down the
month earlier she and it didn't. It didn't go through,
(33:45):
so I think she was just impatient to know. And yeah,
I think even Charlie used the description. She couldn't help herself.
You know, she had to see if it was really done.
So that was just stupid.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
It's so funny that that you should mention mentioned that
because I have a short then I made just just
a just about that.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So that's great.
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Let's let's watch it. Hold on one second, I think,
is this the longer one or let me see I
want to play this shorter one. Yeah, this is the
shorter one. Okay. That gets right to the heart of that,
you know, like having.
Speaker 12 (34:31):
Need to have known about it, and that one knew
about it, that showing up.
Speaker 8 (34:38):
People don't just randomly show up at they're EXTI house,
no parent reason.
Speaker 12 (34:44):
Did you draw that route?
Speaker 6 (34:46):
I wish you could turn on that street? Yeah?
Speaker 8 (34:49):
Yeah, what law firms did that place in time?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Thank crazy?
Speaker 5 (34:58):
I mean it's crazy. It's what you said to me.
It's like a movie crazy. Like, wait a minute, these
things can happen coincidences. It's just crazy coincidence, but it happens.
Speaker 13 (35:12):
But what brought her to that place in time at
that time on that page?
Speaker 8 (35:17):
Not an hour before an hour happens? Yeah, like it
would have had the like not five hours later, you know,
like you said, what is h But Jesus Christ, I mean,
it's not like she showed up six hours later. It's
not like she showed up an hour before an hour.
(35:38):
Aff she shows up because as Paplman said, she could
have culmers.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Yeah, that.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
Shown it say, the most obvious answer, the simplest answer,
it's the real answer. It's not I mean, what's the
most obvious answer for Wendy leaving her for alibi and
they've shown up there? What was the only answer you have?
And as soon as you leave your house and doesn't
show up.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Ridiculous, It's so stupid.
Speaker 8 (36:14):
Here's the thing. One of the most obvious the answer.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
I just wanted to see if it was done.
Speaker 6 (36:23):
Couldn't help, But she wanted to see if it was done,
and she couldn't help herself.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yep, they've Yeah, Charlie, Charlie, Charlie and Donna, they explained that.
I think they're frustrated with her for doing that. Wasn't
part of the plan. But it's isn't it stereotypical to
return to the crime scene? And yeah, I think she
just she couldn't wait until she her from She had
(37:00):
to find out herself. Yeah, exactly what they said.
Speaker 6 (37:09):
Yeah, and then he calls it her alibi? What made
her leave her alibi? Well, thank you Charlie Adelson for
letting us know that the TV repair was her alibi.
I mean, you don't have an alibi. An innocent person
doesn't have an alibi. They have a thing they were
doing that day. They don't leave their alibi. What made
(37:31):
her leave the thing she was doing? What made what
they're saying is, how could Wendy be so stupid is
to abandon our plan?
Speaker 2 (37:44):
We gave her the alibi and right, yeah, that's that.
I hadn't noticed them using the word alibi. That's interesting, Yes,
because I think the TV repairman did come earlier than
they were expecting or hoping, you know, they came at
the beginning of the window and so but yeah, she
was supposed to. They'd set that up as her alibi,
(38:07):
and Charlie's frustrated she didn't stick to the plan. Instead,
she drove by the crime scene.
Speaker 6 (38:15):
And what a stupid stupid stupid music Donna's favorite word, stupid, stupid.
It was stupid, stupid, the stupid question to ask Wendy. Well,
they could have come earlier, they could have come later,
but okay, So if they came later, right after Dan
Marcau was murdered, then she would have been waiting for
(38:37):
the TV repairman while he was murdered. Or if they
came earlier, she the TV repairman had just come and
she wouldn't have had time to drive by his house
and murder. And that was what it still would have
worked as an alibi.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
No, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 8 (38:59):
Was.
Speaker 6 (38:59):
She can to do grab her stuff. After I got
my TV repaired, I ran and shot him and then
ran home or whatever. And then she made that lunch date,
just to that last minute lunch date, just to have
an extra alibi, makes.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
An excellent or she also told I think she was
in a hurry to get to her lunch. In such
a hurry, she didn't have time to shower, yet she
has time to go several miles out of the way.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Yeah that's it's a great one. Yeah. I hadn't heard
that one in a long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
So back to Wendy's testimony, we're comparing and contrasting her
testimony in Charlie Edelson's trial with her testimony in her mother,
Dona Ingolson's Trialment.
Speaker 9 (39:57):
Came to speak with you, and you up going with
them to the police station.
Speaker 12 (40:02):
Right, that's correct.
Speaker 9 (40:10):
Do you agree or disagree that there have been some
financial benefits to you and your boys as a result
of Dan's death?
Speaker 12 (40:19):
I disagree.
Speaker 9 (40:23):
When did you decide to change the names of your
children from Mark Hell to Adelson?
Speaker 12 (40:32):
So after Danny's murder, there was a lot of news
that just hit the media, and there were news stories everywhere,
and Nancy Grace on CNN put pictures of my boys
with their faces unblurred, just pictures of them, and I
was terrified. And so when they started school, I started
school with my last name, thinking that would keep them safe,
(40:54):
that they wouldn't be associated with the murder.
Speaker 9 (40:57):
Wasn't the Adelson name in the press.
Speaker 12 (41:00):
It was not in the press.
Speaker 8 (41:02):
Yet.
Speaker 9 (41:10):
Do you agree that you legally changed the kids' names
on July sixth of twenty fifteen. That sounds right, So
it was actually a year after the homicide.
Speaker 6 (41:18):
A year after.
Speaker 9 (41:32):
When was the last time you talked to.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Your Yeah, we learned really more in this trial about
how quickly that happened. That name change happened though.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Before he was killed, they were using it on invitations
for the boys. I mean informally, but still I think
that implicates, Yeah, the premeditation. She wrote a passage in
her book, her largely autobiographical but technically fictional book, where
(42:09):
she also changed the baby's name when she was divorcing
the husband. So that was her plan. Yeah, and again
she's just impatient. She used to drive by the crimecy
and patient, impatient to change the boys' names.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
Uh, great point, he's still there.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
I'm here, I'm here.
Speaker 6 (42:44):
Yeah, it's a great point. She's impatient. It reminds me
of be a pharaoh. After her break from Wadie, Allen
changed all the kids first names. Oh, I mean that's
to me and my friend, my family friend, Dory Previn said,
(43:06):
who was married to Mia Farrow's husband for Mia Pharaoh
Henary preven to, Yeah, brilliant, brilliant woman. There's a great
new documentary about her. I don't know that. I just saw.
I don't know when it's going to be officially broadly released.
But she said, now the children have nothing, not even
(43:27):
their names. She meant when she said that, I mean,
it's such a deep thing to change the kids' names
for the children's identity and own sense of self. But
for Wendy, it's what she wants is paramount. It's so clear,
and the children's needs are come way last to whatever
(43:48):
she wants.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah, well said.
Speaker 12 (44:00):
Existed at that time.
Speaker 6 (44:02):
Okay, sorry, I just jumped the gun and I forgot
to share this screen before I started. Let's go back
Banama three WhatsApp.
Speaker 12 (44:10):
I don't remember ever texting her on any platform.
Speaker 9 (44:14):
Did you have any other encrypted platforms on your phone
at that time.
Speaker 12 (44:18):
At that time? I don't think so. I don't know
what existed at that time.
Speaker 9 (44:24):
Okay, So when you after you turned around and did
not proceed down, trust Scott, you went, I think to
the liquor store. Can you tell us about that? Sure?
Speaker 12 (44:38):
I was invited to stalk the bar party for that
night for a friend's daughter, and so they asked for
a specific type of bourbon. I'm not a bourbon drinker.
So I went to the liquor store and told them.
I showed them the invitation which was shaped like the
kind of bourbon they wanted us to buy, and asked
if they had that, and they and I bought it.
Speaker 9 (45:01):
All right, And that type of bourbon was bullet bourbon.
Speaker 12 (45:03):
That's right?
Speaker 9 (45:04):
And do you recall that.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
It was?
Speaker 6 (45:07):
Look how nervous she gets when she's talking about her
drived by the crime scene. Did you see that? And
then she looks at her mother briefly. Did you see that?
Speaker 2 (45:17):
Allison, She's rattled in this trial, unlike the others she
was cocky and the others.
Speaker 6 (45:25):
But let's take another look at that, just for a
hot minute. For those that just just tuning in, we're
watching Wendy's testimony in her mother, Donna's trial, comparing it
just a little bit to a little section in her
(45:49):
brother's trial.
Speaker 9 (45:50):
What is What's up?
Speaker 6 (45:51):
What's up? Is it's a oh wait, I'm way too far. Sorry,
I didn't mean to go that far back.
Speaker 9 (46:02):
Down. Trust Scott, you went, I think to the liquor store.
Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 12 (46:10):
Sure, I was.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:11):
When she's we asked the question, she looks at her mother.
It looks like her to the right, and she may
be looking at her lawyer John Laura is sitting behind her.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Oh oh, that's interesting because yeah, I spoke to someone
who was in the courtroom on that day and they
said that she wouldn't look at her mother, which may
be why Georgia Kapelman then asked her eventually to identify
(46:41):
her mother, and that was the only time she looked
at her mother. So I think it may be that she's, yeah,
looking at Laura or someone else, because well, that was
you know, it's hard to get that perspective when the
camera's just on one person. But that's that's what was
reported from someone in the courtroom because you had you
had Pattie reporting all the all these kinds of details
(47:04):
as well on your channel.
Speaker 6 (47:06):
Sure did, thank you Patty for that. That was a
real foing, real treat.
Speaker 12 (47:11):
Invited to stock the bar party for that night for
a friend's daughter, and so they asked for a specific
type of bourbon. I'm not a bourbon drinker. So I
went to the liquor store and told them. I showed
them the invitation, which was shaped like the kind of
bourbon they wanted us to buy, and asked if they
had that, and they did, and I bought it.
Speaker 9 (47:33):
All right, And that type of bourbon was bullet bourbon.
Speaker 12 (47:36):
That's right.
Speaker 9 (47:37):
And do you recall the time of that purchase.
Speaker 12 (47:41):
I don't, but I see a receipt here at twelve
forty nine.
Speaker 9 (47:45):
Okay, And does that fit with your memory? You left
the house around I think you said afternoon, proceeded to
the scene, encountered the tape, and then went to the
liquor store.
Speaker 10 (47:56):
Right.
Speaker 12 (47:57):
I proceeded to drive to the liquor store. I saw
tape and turned around, and then I bought the bourbon
that they asked for at twelve forty nine, and then
I may have gotten gas after that, and then I
drove to lunch, and.
Speaker 9 (48:12):
Lunch was where law enforcement came in and encountered you.
That's right, okay, And that was where you were having
lunch with a couple of friends.
Speaker 12 (48:18):
That's right.
Speaker 9 (48:25):
Did you relocate to South.
Speaker 6 (48:28):
Bore You get the feeling like oh now I'm safe.
Now I'm to the part where I'm not in implicating
myself in this murder, the part where I'm with my
friends at lunch. You can feel the anxiety kind of
come off of her by the by by the end
of the story, there bye any comments.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Allison, Yeah, I think that her driving by the crime
scene may well be the needle in the haystack that
leads to her conviction because she was otherwise. I think
(49:16):
she was pretty careful and not putting as much communication,
like in electronic form with her mother and that sort
of thing. Of course, we don't know everything that Georgia has.
Like additional things came out with Rob that Wendy had
(49:37):
sent a photo of Jeffrey Lacrosse saying, oh, this is
my new secret boyfriend just before the murder. That he
was not secret because her parents had already met him
multiple times. So that was like a clever well, it's
kind of like to the British saying too clever by half.
(50:00):
That was like she a subtle manipulation but made backfire
on her because it wasn't even true. But she wanted Rob,
her brother, to suggest Jeffrey Lacosse to the police, which
he did. He fell for it. But now it looks
with the whole picture, and now looks it bocates her rout,
so it's yeah, it's counterproductive for her purposes.
Speaker 6 (50:25):
And then we also have the new testimony of Sarah Yusuf,
who came forward after Charlie Adelson's trial after sheared Bill
Markel's victim impact statement. Sarah Yusef was also a lawyer,
was friends with Wendy and then for whatever reason, stopped
talking to Wendy. She worked under Da the Weather Underground's son,
(50:53):
Chessa Boudin, Kathy Boudin's son, and very very much a
kind of the what you'd call.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
That.
Speaker 6 (51:06):
He called himself a restorative justice prosecutor, but I would
call pro criminal prosecutor, very much involved in that movement
in freeing convicted murderers from prison. And Wendy Edelson was
telling Sarah Yusuf, according to Sarah Yusef, after Dan Markel's murder,
(51:27):
that she was going to spend the rest of her
life in prison. Have you heard that?
Speaker 2 (51:38):
No, that's amazing.
Speaker 6 (51:42):
And according to Sarah Yussef, she said, well, I was
involved in, you know, probably trying to get a guilty
guy out of prison. My view at the time, and
I mean the way I see it is that she
was so involved in her work seeing murderers as victims
that she wasn't going to turn Wendy in. But when
(52:03):
she saw the she kind of had a she matured
and grew out of that and saw that really there's
a deeper, wider view of our justice system and that
they're real victims, are the Marquelle family. She had a
different take on She thought that Wendy was saying it
(52:26):
because she thought she was going to be wrongfully convicted
of murder. Well, if you didn't do it, well, you
wouldn't worry about that. It's the last thing on your mind.
I don't worry about crimes I you know, being convicted
about crimes I didn't commit and are so certain about
it too. She's saying with total certainty that she's going
(52:48):
to spend the rest of her life in prison. So
it gives a little bit of depth into this testimony
at her at her mother's trial. Let's take a look
at what was going on it. Let's listen to a
little bit more of it.
Speaker 9 (53:04):
Some of the key points in Florida, after mister Markel's death.
Speaker 12 (53:08):
I in terms of relocation, I did leave Tallahassee after
the funeral, but I just took I took a weekender
for both the boys and me and thought I would
be back pretty quickly.
Speaker 9 (53:22):
Did you come back?
Speaker 12 (53:24):
I did come back a few times, but just to
get things though, right, not really to get things. I
came back a couple of times to give a talk
or to do some work, but or to it.
Speaker 9 (53:33):
I'm interested in is where were you living after the murder?
Speaker 12 (53:36):
I wasn't living in Tallahassee, all right?
Speaker 9 (53:38):
Did you recall on the trip to South Florida, just
within forty eight hours of the shooting, getting a call
from Craig Isom.
Speaker 6 (53:48):
Yes, okay?
Speaker 9 (53:50):
And what happened with that call?
Speaker 12 (53:53):
I talked to him for a while. He mentioned that
he might want to have DNA samples of the kids.
We were already halfway down. We'd been in the car
for about four hours with the boys, and in that sense,
I was with my parents, okay, and the kids. We talked.
The call broke up and he never followed up.
Speaker 9 (54:16):
Was it like a you're breaking up?
Speaker 12 (54:19):
I told him I was having a hard time hearing.
Speaker 9 (54:21):
But were you faking that or it wasn't really breaking.
Speaker 12 (54:23):
I was not faking that, And did you send your lawyer?
Speaker 6 (54:27):
I thought that was so interesting because I've always thought
she faked it. I don't know about you.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
I think she faked it especially. Yeah, that was interesting
that Georgia, you know, and asked her, you know nothing
that Wendy had completely moved to the extent that she
said I didn't. Basically, she didn't even have stuff to
come back to. She suggested to me there was planning
(54:56):
and packing because it's hard to move, especially like two
little kids. But she and with her parents, she had
already moved all her stuff, so she when she came back,
it was only to give a talk, which I think
is kind of like one of her humble brags.
Speaker 6 (55:14):
I know, right, It's just so perfect only to only
to support my book. It's called This Is Our Story
and you can buy it on Amazon for blah blah
blah blah blah. It has a great picture of my
eye on the cover. Rosemary Romero says, thank you Roberta
for all you do and supporting Alison in her cause
(55:37):
to help her seek hashtag justice for Nancy. You're welcome, Rosemary.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
Thank you Rosemary has been an extraordinary warrior along with them,
along with you, Roberta, and several others. In fact, Rosemary
succeeded in getting wag Staff on the phone. It wasn't
that I haven't even heard that he texted me though.
(56:05):
She kept calling until eventually Wagstaff spoke with her, So.
Speaker 9 (56:15):
That was.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
And she felt positive about the conversation.
Speaker 6 (56:20):
She texted me, Yeah, we're making real headway, so get
those emails out. I really think, you know, and when
we when this finally, when they finally decide to go
forward with the prosecution, we have to do something special
in this channel for for everybody who's helped, don't you think, Alison.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Oh, that would be amazing. I can't think of what
would be sufficient to show my gratitude.
Speaker 6 (56:49):
We'll do something fun on this channel. I'm very positive.
I think, I really think it's going in a positive direction.
I don't know if I'm blindly optimistic, but I feel
good about it all. Right. Back to Wendy and not
feeling not so good. I mean, this is just like
a totally different person we saw in the in the
(57:11):
witness box, and I think the jury cannot help. But
notice her demeanor I mean, she doesn't come off as truthful.
She comes off as so mannered and odd on the stand.
She's not a good witness at all. She's a mannered
lie at someone that you suspect is lying kind of witness.
(57:32):
How would you describe her on the stand, Allison.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
I think that she is a skilled manipulator, and she
vacillates between ah almost being brainless and therefore uninvolved, even
(57:59):
claiming in a previous hearing or trial she didn't know
she's a lawyer, but she didn't know what contempt meant
or dismissal with prejudice. But I think out of the
three adlsins we've seen testify, although Donna didn't take the
(58:20):
stance she testified and hearing, Wendy is the most skilled actress.
And in fact that was underscored by an email that
her mom sent her encouraging her to act, and that
she Donna's telling Wendy, Oh, you can be a good
actress when you need to be. So yeah, she acts
(58:45):
like someone saying here she Cherry's saying, uh, kind of
stupid on purpose? Yeah, Like, how could she be involved?
She doesn't have the wherewithal to be involved.
Speaker 6 (59:00):
Right, She's got that mouth open, that eyes real wide,
almost like hypnotizing you a little bit with her eyes
wide open, her mouth open, her head to the side.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Oh, she reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes. You know, Elizabeth
Holmes had very intent the who's now the who had
the set up a company in California with the yeah,
(59:33):
exactly what was it?
Speaker 6 (59:35):
Their? No, what was it?
Speaker 2 (59:37):
That's right? Yeah, that's the name of the company. And
now she's in federal prison for fraud. But she had.
Speaker 6 (59:44):
Intense, same intense look and mannered all put on her voices,
put on she has a really high voice, Elizabeth, and
then she would put on this low authority, thoritative voice.
She thought it brought gave her power. She's a scary person.
(01:00:06):
So is Wendy the psychopaths.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Oh yeah, well definitely if yeah, if she's able to
kill a loving father, even someone she admits was a
loving father, to do that to her own children, it's
almost incomprehensible, except that it also happened to me. But yeah,
(01:00:33):
it's completely selfish, lacking empathy, and I do think that,
you know, it's interesting. Jeffrey Lacrosse said she's able to
cast spells. He said he was under her spell. I
think she does have the ability to. I mean, it's
(01:00:56):
hard to feel that watching her, knowing all the evidence.
I don't feel like she's has a spell over me,
for instance, But in her real life, apparently, especially with men,
I don't know that she's capable of pasting spells over them.
Speaker 6 (01:01:14):
Yeah, that's a great point. A lot of these murderers
have that kind of charisma. We were just talking about
Jeffrey McDonald today. I mean, he was able to con
his psychiatrists that evaluated him. Many women, They all these
killers have a supporter sometimes supporters, and I places Wendy
(01:01:39):
I would say, is the most universally hated, but in
her personal life she she has garnered uh supporters who
are still loyal to her.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Your mom, this.
Speaker 6 (01:01:55):
Is some form of Charlie's trial where it gets it's
going to get heated.
Speaker 9 (01:02:00):
You talked to her today, yesterday I talked to her
yesterday in her emails, and we referenced one of them.
While you've been here on the stand. She talks about
you giving performances and playing roles. Did you discuss anything
about what you would do here today in court with
your mother?
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
No?
Speaker 9 (01:02:26):
Were you involved in any way in the plot to
kill your ex.
Speaker 12 (01:02:29):
Husband, absolutely not.
Speaker 9 (01:02:31):
Did you know what was going to happen, but maybe
not know the details.
Speaker 12 (01:02:35):
I knew nothing.
Speaker 9 (01:02:36):
Is that why you went to the crime scene on
the day of the homicide?
Speaker 12 (01:02:39):
I did not go to the crime scene on the
day of the homicide.
Speaker 9 (01:02:42):
Do you know who all was involved in the murder?
Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
Well?
Speaker 12 (01:02:45):
I learned today, but at the time no.
Speaker 9 (01:02:49):
Okay, have you ever privately confronted your brother about his
role or possible role in the murder?
Speaker 12 (01:02:57):
My attorney has advised me not to have conversations with
any of my family about the case.
Speaker 9 (01:03:07):
But you had a close relationship with your brother at
the time of the murder, right.
Speaker 12 (01:03:12):
I absolutely had a close relationship with my brother.
Speaker 9 (01:03:15):
And you're how soon after the murder did your lord
advise you not to talk to your family about it?
Speaker 12 (01:03:21):
In twenty sixteen?
Speaker 9 (01:03:23):
Okay, So what about the two years in between? Did
you talk to him about it? Then?
Speaker 12 (01:03:27):
I mean, I talked to him about the fact that
a murder occurred, But I guess I don't understand the question.
Speaker 9 (01:03:34):
But you never talked to him about the suspicions you
raised in a law enforcement interview that your brother might
have done it.
Speaker 12 (01:03:42):
No, I did not.
Speaker 9 (01:03:48):
You suspected your brother could have been a part of this, right.
Speaker 12 (01:03:51):
I suspected lots of people could have been a part
of it, but he was one of the people.
Speaker 9 (01:03:56):
Right.
Speaker 12 (01:03:57):
While I was talking with law enforcement for six hours,
terrified out of my mind, I offered them every possible
idea I could come up with.
Speaker 9 (01:04:05):
Right, and one of the possible ideas was that your
brother could have murdered your child's father.
Speaker 12 (01:04:12):
I didn't really believe that was possible.
Speaker 9 (01:04:21):
It was part of the plot for you to be
able to have plausible deniability about this.
Speaker 12 (01:04:26):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 9 (01:04:28):
Is it better for both you and your brother if
you don't know the details of this.
Speaker 12 (01:04:34):
I don't even understand the question that you're asking me.
Speaker 9 (01:04:36):
When did you first become aware that you might be
a suspect.
Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
In this case?
Speaker 12 (01:04:41):
I mean, as the ex wife, I assumed I was
a suspect from the beginning.
Speaker 9 (01:04:50):
What was your first thought when you were asked if
anyone might have murdered Dan Markel for your benefit?
Speaker 12 (01:04:57):
I thought, oh, my god, maybe if I hadn't divorced him,
he would still be alive. Maybe this is my fault
because I complained to the wrong person. Maybe Danny gave
a student a bad grade and they came after him.
I just was trying to think of who possibly could
have wanted to hurt him.
Speaker 9 (01:05:17):
But you didn't say any of that before. The first
thing you said was Charlie right.
Speaker 12 (01:05:24):
I don't think so.
Speaker 9 (01:05:25):
Page twenty five of your interview Mine five through fifteen.
Do you have any reason to dispute Page twenty five,
Not five hours into it you say Charlie might have
done it? Right?
Speaker 12 (01:05:39):
Can I see?
Speaker 9 (01:05:39):
Please? You may? This is going to be cap.
Speaker 6 (01:05:50):
What do you think she stopped so often and demands
that she see the actual evidence. I mean, she knows,
she's it's there, George is not gonna.
Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
It does seem like it prolongs, Yeah, it seems like
it prolongs the issue. Maybe she's used to that kind
of denial in her regular life and she's having trouble
controlling it. I don't know. I'm just speculating, but if anything.
Speaker 6 (01:06:29):
About it, she's so time to think about what her
next lie is going to be here, so I would think.
And also it's obviously a technique because in Karen Reid's trial,
they were illegally giving their expert witnesses tips in between,
(01:06:49):
so the testimony was you know, held over for the
next day, and in between they gave their tips to
always ask for that the evidence and look at it.
And so obviously it's a technique to delay, give you
some more time to think about it and come up
with your next lie. Obviously, I mean, that's what I think.
Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Uh oh, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 12 (01:07:43):
What I say here is that he would never do it.
Right under the highlighted part, I say, no, he would never.
Speaker 9 (01:07:55):
H Page twenty five, line five through fifteen. I mean
my brother, the one his name is Charlie, the one
I'm really close to. He makes a lot of jokes
(01:08:17):
in that taste. And it was a joke he made.
He bought the TV for me this morning that got broken,
and then I was talking to him about whether it
made sense to pay or fix it or whether I
should get a new one, And it was always like
it was always his joke, that like he knew that
Danny always treated me badly, and it was always his joke.
(01:08:38):
He said, I looked into hiring a hit man and
it was cheaper to get you this TV, so instead
I got you this TV. And you do say, you
don't think he would do it, but can we agree?
You brought up his name on page twenty five of
the interview he did when asked, would you ever ask
someone to do something like this? Say not in a
(01:09:00):
million years. When asked, okay, do you think someone would
do this for your benefit without asking you? You say no?
And when is starts to ask you, what good does
it serve? You say, I mean my brother, the one
his name is Charlie. Isn't that how it went?
Speaker 12 (01:09:19):
This is the transcript, but I think there's also inaccuracies
in the transcription.
Speaker 9 (01:09:24):
Boy, all right, do you want the culpable parties held
accountable for murdering the father of your children?
Speaker 12 (01:09:38):
Absolutely? I'm grateful they're already in jail.
Speaker 9 (01:09:40):
But not if it's your family.
Speaker 12 (01:09:43):
It's not my family.
Speaker 9 (01:09:44):
I mean somebody hired them, right, not necessarily, somebody paid them.
Speaker 12 (01:09:49):
I learned something this morning.
Speaker 9 (01:09:50):
Yeah, me too. You didn't want them held accountable if
it was your family members? Didn't you tell law enforcement that?
That's not what I told law enforcement? What did you
tell law enforcement?
Speaker 12 (01:10:01):
I told them that the person who did this should
be held responsible and that I had nothing to do with.
Speaker 9 (01:10:06):
It, page lines seven through twelve. If somebody tried to
kill my ex husband. They should be prosecuted to the
full extent of the law, the investigator says, regardless of
who it is. And your answer is, I mean, it
would be different if I thought it were my brother.
Speaker 12 (01:10:24):
But I don't think it was my family. It's different now,
isn't it. No, it's not different. That's exactly different today. No,
that's none of further questions.
Speaker 6 (01:10:35):
I mean, it's just such an iconic direct. It feels
more like a cross, but it's a it's a direct.
Here he or she is talking about let me make
sure I'm in the right area. Yeah, here she is
(01:11:02):
talking about these same it gets more in depth. It's
much more in depth this time. It's a much longer direct.
Speaker 12 (01:11:14):
Okay, in the car, they told you what they said,
your ex husband has been shot.
Speaker 9 (01:11:20):
Okay, so that you learned that information prior to getting
into the interview room.
Speaker 6 (01:11:27):
What do you think about that, Alison, This is the
first time we've heard that, because when she's told yes, yes,
breaks down.
Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Yeah, she claims, and that we see it in an
interview room that she she has that message from a friend.
But now she's changed her story that they told her
when they asked her to come with them. So yeah,
there's an inconsistency right there.
Speaker 6 (01:11:57):
Right, So, I mean, either you would I mean, would
you have such a big, a big reaction second time around.
I don't know. I don't think so I don't believe
a reaction if it was the first time. At the
police station, she pretends to cry, but then she can
(01:12:17):
talk in full voice.
Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
So yeah, Donna and Wendy are both dry criers. Yeah,
even you know, first I and Donna's conviction, I thought
that she was crying, like crying for herself, but watching
it again, she's not even crying for herself. She's pure anger.
Speaker 6 (01:12:44):
Let's let's watch that. Hold on, let's watch Donna's just
let me see if I can find it really quickly.
If I can find it, if I can do it quickly,
that would be great. We can just watch it. I
(01:13:05):
was like twelve, I was alive for like twelve hours
that day. It was so wild. Yeah, just a couple
of minutes short of twelve hours.
Speaker 5 (01:13:13):
Hold on.
Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (01:13:16):
We were waiting around for it, and I thought it
would come back pretty quickly. So we were watching other
things while we were waiting. We were about to watch here,
we are here, it is hear anything. Let me just
(01:13:39):
make sure that the now Selman shaking Georgia Kapelman's hand.
So he just told everyone not to have a big reaction,
and then Donna has a big reaction, so crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
He's yeah, she had to be a monister over and
over again by Judge evert unreal, unreal, and it's a tantrum.
Speaker 6 (01:14:10):
But we never know we could get it.
Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
He's even stomping her feet, right.
Speaker 6 (01:14:18):
Is she had to go great prosecutor.
Speaker 14 (01:14:25):
The Drews.
Speaker 6 (01:14:33):
Yeah, when I was a juror, I was. I made
sure I looked at the defendant that we I'm guilty
because I didn't want to choreograph. You don't no one
apparently none of them looked at her and Charlie's same thing.
Bringing the jury right now.
Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
Please reminated when the jurors come in this.
Speaker 6 (01:15:00):
Particular time, Phil Marcel with a long close of his eyes. There,
I didn't notice that before.
Speaker 8 (01:15:15):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 7 (01:15:36):
M.
Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
But please, rits, as the jury reached an anamous verdict,
if you please can hand a verdict form to the ball.
Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
H h.
Speaker 9 (01:15:58):
H m hm.
Speaker 3 (01:16:01):
Having reviewed the verdict form, it is in its proper
order at this time I will publish the verdict. We
The jury find as follows as the count one of
the indictment, first degree murder, the defendant is guilty of
first degree murder, Missus Adelsen, control yourself.
Speaker 6 (01:16:29):
Oh oh my god, just to see it again. She
seems like she knows it's coming. It's almost like someone
about to be I don't know, firing squad or something.
That's the image I get. What about you, It's like
she knows it's coming.
Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
Her entitlement continues to run through this verdict. I mean,
Judge Everett has had many people in his courtroom receive
a verdict stoically, and the level of composure between Donna
Adelson and then Ruth and Phil in their impact statement
(01:17:11):
is stark.
Speaker 6 (01:17:15):
Great point, great point. Time we see, look, she looks
like she knows it's coming. So like that if you
asked me, I wouldn't say that's a woman waiting for
good news.
Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
The jury find as follows, as to count one of
the indictment, first degree murder, the defendant is guilty of
first degree murder.
Speaker 4 (01:17:43):
Missus Adelson, control yourself.
Speaker 6 (01:17:51):
And then it's like a toddler that you're right. They're
all trying to control the toddler.
Speaker 15 (01:17:55):
Oh I knew this was gonna happen. Oh, tell us
he stupid. What a stupid verdict. It's so stupid, so
that you're a saying, you know, that's what's going on
in her mind.
Speaker 6 (01:18:09):
She really thought she was going to get away with it.
Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
It's delusional. They were delusional, Like I think they were
genuinely delusional. It's incomprehensible. But in Charlie's trial, because he's
giving away his commissary and they hadn't booked their plan
to vi anam but until after the verdicts, they're so
competent that it's going to be found not guilty, which
(01:18:34):
I just like, did they watch the same trial that
we did? I guess, even though in a sense they're
intelligent people, this narcissism I think is accompanied by well superiority.
They think they can get away with it, so it
is kind of a sense of delusion.
Speaker 6 (01:18:57):
All yeah, Well, his case, it wasn't quite a biggest,
biggest case as it is now. I remember watching it
and there were about there were a good bunch of
Charlie supporters saying he did great on the stand in
the in the I mean, I know the pre TV
(01:19:18):
chat is always very defendant friendly. Always no matter who
it is, whether it's Robert Derris, there's always going to
be someone hoping a murderer gets off. But people felt that,
I think, like Charlie and Donna, that if he had
a story, that's all he needed. It didn't have to
(01:19:38):
be They forgot the reasonable part of doubt. They could
create doubt of any kind, not a reasonable doubt in
the jury that he would get off. So he had
a he had. I think Donna had a big part
in writing his defense, like she I think she's the
author of this whole extortion story, and I think she
(01:20:00):
gave it to Dan rash Bound and had Charlie memorize it.
He didn't memorize a script the way Darina Bernhard had to,
but he put it in his own words and really
knew the evidence, and they thought he was so well prepared,
and she believed so much in Dan Rashbaund. When you
watch his the way he takes the verdict, you can
(01:20:24):
see that he's really hopeful. That's someone who's hopeful that
he's going to get a good verdict. You can see
it this. I think she knew what was coming. She
hoped not She's hopeful that maybe there would be something
that it would go the other way, but she knew.
I mean, this is just pure performance.
Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Okay, back, Yeah, you know, I think that Charlie was
excessively prepared. There was even a point where he refers
to a page number, and I can a huge binder
of evidence, like refers to the line on page number
(01:21:05):
when being cross examined by Georgia Kappelman. That that's a
mistake to show that he studied it that carefully. Yeah,
he just seemed overly prepared. It didn't seem genuine.
Speaker 6 (01:21:23):
I always point to that where he says, you want
to know which which part you know? It is so cocky.
I'll tell you which part you know. Yeah, it's so
cocky evidence backwards and parts. If you you're innocent and
you lived through it, there's no need to know the evidence.
You just say when I was here or when I
was doing this, not evidence be line sixteen. I mean, silly. Okay,
(01:21:49):
here's here's more of Wendy.
Speaker 9 (01:21:52):
Yes, do you remember allowing law enforcement to take possession
of your computer? In that interview, I.
Speaker 12 (01:22:00):
Told law enforcement to search my phone, search my computer,
search my house, search my car. I was trying to
be helpful.
Speaker 9 (01:22:08):
Do you remember saying that it was okay for them
to take the computer and keep it even though you
had work things on there, because you didn't think you
would be going back to work.
Speaker 12 (01:22:18):
I remember thinking it wasn't important. I couldn't imagine my
life fell apart, So.
Speaker 9 (01:22:24):
Didn't go back to work, did you at FSU?
Speaker 12 (01:22:27):
I did actually go back, not physically present, but I
was still on the FSU payroll until December of that year.
Speaker 9 (01:22:37):
In that interview with law enforcement, did you suggest that
your parents are people who may have been angry enough
to kill Dan Markel?
Speaker 6 (01:22:46):
I suggested before she before she answers that is that
the way it works in academia. So she was on contract,
she wasn't teaching, but she still got paid till December.
Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
I think that she Yeah, she didn't have a tenure
track job. It sounds like she was on a contract
on a grant like usually those run for a year,
and even if somebody essentially stops working, I mean, it's
(01:23:23):
hard to cancel the contract. So it sounds like she
took advantage of that grant. I don't know if money
was I think she referred to it coming from a grant,
which is probably I don't know if his foundation grant
or taxpayer grant, but uh yeah, she she was then
taking advantage of whoever was paying that, the taxpayer or
(01:23:47):
the students paying their tuition. Yeah. I think she just
let the contract run its course. But wasn't even in town.
Speaker 9 (01:23:59):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (01:23:59):
Wow, So she played the victims so well. Like Jeffrey
Leacas says, I can't come into work, I'm in mourning.
She took her mourning leaves, a new kind of leave
defined by Wendy Edelson. She was in mourning for the
ex husband she killed. Okay, crazy.
Speaker 12 (01:24:21):
Did a lot of people who could have been angry
enough to kill Danny?
Speaker 9 (01:24:25):
And were some of the people my parents? Yes, But
you said in the interview that you didn't think they
were capable of it, didn't you?
Speaker 6 (01:24:34):
I did.
Speaker 9 (01:24:35):
If your mom wasn't capable of it, did she have
anyone that she could enlist to assist her.
Speaker 12 (01:24:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 9 (01:24:45):
What was your first thought when you were asked if
anyone might have murdered Dan Markel for your benefit.
Speaker 12 (01:24:52):
I thought maybe a crazed friend or a former student.
Speaker 9 (01:24:58):
It's not what you said, though, isn't I.
Speaker 12 (01:25:00):
Don't remember exactly what I said first.
Speaker 9 (01:25:03):
You said Charlie, right.
Speaker 12 (01:25:06):
If that's what I said, then you have it there.
But I don't remember who I listed first.
Speaker 9 (01:25:10):
Okay, can you at least tell the jury you definitely
did say Charlie as one of those people I did.
Do you remember saying if somebody tried to kill my
ex husband, they should be prosecuted to the full extent
of the law. Yes, and is says regardless of who
(01:25:31):
it is. And do you recall your answer?
Speaker 12 (01:25:34):
I do recall my answer.
Speaker 9 (01:25:36):
What was that?
Speaker 12 (01:25:38):
I think I was hoping it wasn't anyone in my family,
and so that idea that it was someone in my
family gave me pause.
Speaker 9 (01:25:46):
All right, but that wasn't your answer, was it?
Speaker 12 (01:25:50):
I mean, I don't remember a word for word.
Speaker 6 (01:25:52):
But she remembers word for word what she said. But
she's giving the reason why she said it instead of
the answer. And I feel like the woman behind Georgia
Kapelman and the black listening to it not blessed.
Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Yeah, yeah, somebody writes somebody right. I'm sorry I'm missing
a lot of the chat, but Wendy flexes her vulnerability.
She's very keen to deflect any guilt, and she seems
empty inside and authentic and all surface. Yeah, I agree
with that.
Speaker 6 (01:26:28):
That's a great description, perfect right on. And here she
here she is. You know what it looks like she's
tearing up at this point. I think she's so just
nervous for herself. Literally, not tears for her mother or
her brother or Dan Marcel. It's all for herself. She's
(01:26:50):
so nervous in the courthouse. I'm sure she couldn't get
out of there fast enough.
Speaker 12 (01:26:55):
But that's that was my sentiment at the time.
Speaker 9 (01:26:58):
Was your answer for council? This is law enforcement interview,
page one, twenty two, line seven through twelve. If somebody
tried to kill my ex husband, they should be prosecuted
to the full extent of the law. Question regardless of
who it is answer, I mean, it would be different
if I thought it were my brother. Did you call
(01:27:19):
your mom from the interview room at Tallahassee Police Department?
Speaker 12 (01:27:22):
I did?
Speaker 9 (01:27:23):
And did she answer the phone?
Speaker 12 (01:27:25):
She did?
Speaker 9 (01:27:26):
When she answered, Did she advise you that your dad
was in the shower?
Speaker 12 (01:27:32):
I don't remember whether my dad was in the shower.
Speaker 9 (01:27:35):
You asked her to sit down, Do you remember that?
Speaker 12 (01:27:37):
I do?
Speaker 9 (01:27:39):
And by asking her to sit down with that signify
to her that this was going to be something serious
she were going to reveal or say.
Speaker 12 (01:27:47):
I was concerned about her age and if she were
standing that she could you know, hurt herself if she
fell down.
Speaker 9 (01:27:54):
Okay, And do you recall that she at that point
asked if she could put you on speakerphone.
Speaker 12 (01:28:01):
I don't remember, but that sounds plausible.
Speaker 9 (01:28:03):
What was the purpose of putting the phone on speaker
if you know.
Speaker 12 (01:28:08):
I would be guessing, But so my dad could hear too?
Speaker 9 (01:28:11):
But wasn't Dad in the shower? Or you don't remember
that part?
Speaker 12 (01:28:14):
I don't remember if my dad was in the showers.
Speaker 9 (01:28:16):
Anyone else there to your knowledge?
Speaker 12 (01:28:18):
I don't think so. It was Charlie there to your knowledge,
I don't think so.
Speaker 9 (01:28:22):
Did you ask your mom in that telephone conversation to
tell Charlie what was going on?
Speaker 12 (01:28:26):
I think I did. I didn't want to make any
more phone calls.
Speaker 9 (01:28:31):
And your mom took the news pretty well, didn't she
this phone call?
Speaker 12 (01:28:35):
I wouldn't say she took the news well. I think
she was upset.
Speaker 9 (01:28:39):
Did you say something different in your law enforcement interview
after you got off the phone with her?
Speaker 12 (01:28:43):
I don't think I did. I don't think I said
something like that.
Speaker 9 (01:28:46):
Didn't you say, page two sixty five, line five through six,
quote my mom handled that pretty well.
Speaker 12 (01:28:56):
I may have said that, I can check it. Can
you tell me the lining again.
Speaker 9 (01:29:00):
Yes, ma'am, page two sixty five, line five and six.
Speaker 12 (01:29:05):
Yes, that's what I said.
Speaker 9 (01:29:07):
And then page two eighty, line twenty two and twenty three.
Did you also say, well, my parents sounded really surprised.
So that's at least a relief.
Speaker 12 (01:29:19):
Yes, I see that here.
Speaker 9 (01:29:21):
No further questions, just a moment on.
Speaker 6 (01:29:30):
Okay, So that's that's a good place to leave it there.
But you see the difference, certainly. I think it's a
stark difference from the first from Charlie Edelson's trial.
Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
No the way, yeah, yeah, she was cocky. Now she's rattled.
Speaker 6 (01:30:00):
So Georgia Capel was not even going to push her.
She's just rattled being there. There's no need to push her,
I mean, the way she did at the end of
the end of Charlie Edelson's trial, there is no need
to do it. I'm gonna end with a short victim
(01:30:24):
impact letter, where I usually do. This is just a
short one for today. This is written to the Honorable
James C. Hankinson. Your honor Dan Markel was my friend
and colleague, and I still can't figure out how to
be whole without him. He was present and intuitive and
(01:30:46):
loving and nudging. He found time for me in our
relationship in the most creative manner, and performed friendship in
ways that always felt genuine and from the right place.
Although I literally wrote a book about friendship, I have
always been chastened to know that he knew more about
(01:31:09):
it than I ever would or could. I've gone from
intimidated by Dan when I first met him to holy
admiring him in short order. But I now have to
remain in a permanent state of grieving. I feel cheated
(01:31:29):
because our friendship is now stuck in time. There was
so much growing to do together, and I miss his
companionship so much. He's still teaching me and reaching from
beyond the grave. I can reread him, think about what
he would have, what he would say about personal or
(01:31:53):
professional challenges, conjure his good will in these small ways.
He lives on, and I take comfort that his vivacity
in life left reverberations in depth. But I am in mourning. Still,
my life at work and end at home is thinner,
(01:32:16):
less vital, less analyzed, and less shared. I miss my
friend Ethan and this is Ethan j Leeb.
Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
That's beautiful. I love how you end on. It's an
impact statement every time. Yes's important not to forget the victim.
Who are the victims?
Speaker 6 (01:32:46):
Thanks so thanks so much something. I really get a
lot out of reading those letters. I hope everybody does too.
So before I go, just one more shout out to
get your emails out to da wagstaff and tell him
(01:33:07):
to prosecute the murderer of Nancy Galvanni, Alison Galvani's mother.
There is the email is also in the description of
this episode, and a template you can just copy and
paste into an email, or you can write your own
even better. But let's keep on pushing and we're making
(01:33:33):
some headway. Guys, we're having a rolling back. So hopefully
this will come to the outcome we want, but it
won't without all of your help. So we do need
your help in getting these emails out. It really does
not take more than fifteen minutes, five minutes, ten minutes,
(01:33:57):
does not have to be long, just has to be understandable.
What the message is, let's get this case prosecuted. It's
been a cold case for decades and it's really unacceptable.
There's a lot of evidence against your dad, Noe.
Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Yeah, absolutely overwhelming evidence. In fact, the lead detective has
even expressed it. Your mom's case is solved. We just
need the prosecution to be approved.
Speaker 6 (01:34:31):
So yeah, and if we can get this done, there
will be a big party on this channel.
Speaker 2 (01:34:37):
So well, thank you so much for bern.
Speaker 6 (01:34:44):
It was fun.
Speaker 2 (01:34:47):
Thank you, Thank you everyone. Yeah, you Faster such a
wonderful supportive community. I'm so grateful to you and the community. Faster.
Speaker 6 (01:34:57):
Thanks so much. I think we have the best chat
on YouTube, but obviously I'm very biased. All Right, have
a great night, everybody else, see you tomorrow at six.
Thank you so much, Alison. This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
Thank you again.
Speaker 9 (01:35:13):
Good night.
Speaker 14 (01:35:30):
Donna. What a speech you're hire.
Speaker 13 (01:35:36):
You got it a murder because you wanted to raise
your daughter's kids. Tama has he is just to stop
on the way to civilization. Miami is where all the
fancy people are.
Speaker 14 (01:35:55):
The TV is about that. You can't get away from
that tote tato uh.
Speaker 13 (01:36:04):
You know the guy you pay then you can't.
Speaker 14 (01:36:08):
Get away from that, Oh Dan, what to stitch your head?
Speaker 13 (01:36:15):
You thought chill was just for the little people, but
now you're saw like it's with the locked up proof.
You're a grandmother is locked down and you're one way
ride to.
Speaker 14 (01:36:27):
Feed on your blue Dana. What a stitch your head?
Speaker 9 (01:36:46):
Your family are.
Speaker 13 (01:36:47):
Exiled from the social circles you swam in. We all
know you never made that banana bread. You're offered to
babysit Ford, but you soon the nag in license plates.
Speaker 14 (01:37:03):
And thinking a double could a bit o? You had
to plan a murderer who ha
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