Woman Who Sent Robert Durst Money on the Run Still Grifting Off His Murders

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Roberta in the truth zone like
hitting raw, spot light shine, and she exposing the fluff
to punk in the myth, breaking their facade, Missus, Glass City,
respect the squad on these NYC flocks where the skyline
flects Big Roberta Glass lights and lies, where.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
The truth rig and it's sis frosters.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Your story's unravel She's a map through the madness, a
gritty grappl pump glass, don't pin, the.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Facts, don't break.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
She's a sote that's called you feel the quake exposed
to tale, sish with cooked seams, justice and the lens shattered,
fake dreams, screams about killers, painted heroes in the skies.
She burning propaganda with fire in her eyes.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
No glamour for the guilty. She call it straight.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
She backs victims, the voice, stay away, sail stasts and receipts,
no spin.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
No clutter, cold cases whisper.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
She cuts through the mutter truths her tempo, don't confuse
the She's standing for the real while you're taking a seat.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Who crimes the block facts the artillery.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Spinning those lives h She checks that misery tab lloyd.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Tails get smashed. No time to play.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
She's glass hard, break the false to save the day.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah yeah, who crimes a block facts the artillery spinning
those lies?

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Well, she checks that misery tab Lloyd tails get smashed
no time.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
Oh okay, welcome back, friends. I feel like this is
a live stream of friends. Certainly a smaller, smaller story.
Thanks for joining me, Hello tater Bug, thank you for moderating.

(01:54):
Hello dark Side, nice to see you. Hello Demarker. Where
we've been? Hello? Mr I haven't seen you in a
while either. I feel like but maybe you've been here
and I'm forgetting all right. Yeah, just as chickens, this
is just a small, smaller story. I'm taking a little
bit of a break just for tonight. I've been putting together.

(02:19):
I mean, if you haven't seen, I've been like a
thrown out one short after the next. Hey, season x,
I've been thrown out one short after the next. Hold
on one second, I don't know. I've been thrown out

(02:39):
one short after the next. For my second interview with
Brendan Kane, infuriating the Free Cairn readers left and right,
some good shorts so check them out from that interview.
Hi Doris, Hi Maestro, Hi p K. But I wanted
to talk about to a real case I covered a

(03:02):
long time ago. I watched the entire trial. This is
with John Lewin as lead prosecutor. In this case is
of course the case of Robert Durst, and it was
he was on trial for the murder of Susan Berman.
He was convicted. He died shortly after he was convicted.

(03:24):
Robert Durst. And in California, unless your case goes through
the appellate you know, the challenging the appellate kind of process,
it gets totally vacated. So I think it proved its point.
Robert Durst would have spent the rest of his life.

(03:46):
He spent much of the rest of his life in prison.
He spent much of his life at the end of
his life in jail in a wheelchair. With these high
price lawyers really couldn't do much in this case. But
one of his I consider one of his accomplices. That's

(04:07):
the way I don't know his murderer groupies. It was
his a woman who worked for a friend of his
PR firm for realtors, I mean like building builders, how

(04:29):
do I say it? In New York. She worked for
him and she desperately wanted to meet Robert Durst did
and befriended him. She sent him large amounts of cash
in in suitcase and she said she didn't know what
was in it. We'll look at her testimony. This real
unbelievable testimony. Your name is Susie g Ordno, she is

(04:51):
still grifting off of Robert Durst after his death. That
is what we're going to talk about today. How do
you grift off of murderers, murder and wealth after they're dead. Well,
Susie Giordano seems to have found her niche on eBay.

(05:11):
We're gonna talk about it. We're also gonna look at
her testimony. Really, this is like one of these really
jaw dropping unbelievable testimonies when someone decides to lie on
the stand just so blatantly, and you're just watching them
make lie after lie after lie in my view, just

(05:32):
my opinion, and get caught up in their lies and
change their story as it suits them on their stand.
I mean, if you ever wondered why guilty people don't
take the stand, here's a good example. We're also gonna
look at my interview with a prosecutor, John Lewin and
talk about how he prepared for this cross it's actually

(05:56):
a direct examination. It comes off more as a cross examined,
but one of John Lewins. He's also known as the
Cheam of the Cold Cases. His specialty is cold cases,
no body cases. He's a prosecutor in Los Angeles who
has been on this show many times as a guest.

(06:18):
Talked about how he prepared for this testimony, and one
of his techniques is to take what would be a
defense witness as his witness. So this is not a
cross examination, although it feels like one, it's actually a
direct examination. It's a really fun one to watch. I mean,

(06:41):
I just thought, let's have some fun tonight. Let's blow
off some steam, Let's watch suz Gar Donna's amazing cross
examination together, have a little fun, have something a little
bit more lighthearted, a little bit less heavy and serious tonight,
but also have like a real discussion about these morally

(07:06):
vacant people who support murderers. And in this case, I
think financial gain was the most of the motivation, almost
entirely all of the motivation. But she also seemed to
be just desperate for some excitement in her life and

(07:32):
to feel like, you know, she had this what you
could only say is an emotional affair with Robert Durst.
They were planning to have a love nest together at
one point. She talks about it in her direct we'll
look at it. And while she was married to I

(07:52):
believe her second or third husband, forgive me for not
remembering exactly whether it was her second or third husband,
had kids, but she got more money out of Robert Durst,
who was notoriously cheap than anyone. And so before we
let's actually look at some of her testimony so you'll

(08:15):
get a flavor for it. Then we can look at
a little bit still be a little bit like add theater.
Dean Walker, thank you so much for the supersticker. Thank
you for supporting the channel. Like I said, this channel
really is viewers supported. This is a I demand to

(08:39):
stick to the truth and the facts in these cases,
and I appreciate everyone who supports the channel and for
a really a totally victim centered view of true crime,
which is really so rare, they say, is I really don't.
I don't see many people doing it, if any if
there's someone out there with a real victim centered channel

(09:02):
that's not supporting any guilty killers, not drifting off of
any guilty killers case, not one. I haven't seen it yet,
and I find that really disappointing. Let us look first
at her testimony. So this is during COVID. This is

(09:24):
Susie Giardano. She comes in and at the end of
this testimony she says she can't believe she's being held
over for another day. She lives in New Jersey, and
she says, I need my medication. So let me know
if you think she's maybe having some kind of withdrawals

(09:45):
or if that was just some kind of line. Is
she on something on there? I don't know. John Lewin
uses two hearing aids. Didn't hear that. We actually talked
about it in our one of our interviews. But you
think she's like, I can't come back tomorrow. But oh wait,

(10:05):
let me just show you. I'm going to car before
the horse. So she's grifting on eBay. She's selling art.
I'm so excited to get to her testimony. I'm not
I'm bearing the lead here. She's selling hert and thank
you Little Lee on X you watched this whole trials,

(10:28):
talked about it on this show. Clue me into this.
She's Susie's arts and gifts. Here's her original Aco art card,
the Three Witches and Cat. This is her art. What
do you think of it? For three dollars you can

(10:50):
buy it? And she lists herself as Robert Dursts artist.
And then she's selling other things like She'lldren's toys. It's
really so odd your key dog lover playing cards. But

(11:12):
in that she's selling her art, her murder inspired art.
So is that supposed to be? Did the three witches
have anything to do with the two women and the
one man Robert Durst killed? Is she one of or they?
Is she a witch with Robert Durst? Does it have

(11:34):
anything to do? Or is it just I don't know?
Let me know what you think she's thinking? Let me
let's go back to her her testimony. Here's her testimony
and the Robert Durst trial. Let's watch it together.

Speaker 5 (11:46):
For this or shall be the truth, the whole truth
and the truth to help you God?

Speaker 4 (11:52):
Yes, they we see.

Speaker 6 (11:57):
What or if we stayed in scale?

Speaker 7 (11:59):
Your friend and.

Speaker 8 (12:01):
Susan Giordano s U S A N middle initial T,
last name Giordano g I O R D A N O.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
Thank you.

Speaker 9 (12:12):
I'm gonna ask you so that you can be heard
to speak directly into that microphone.

Speaker 6 (12:16):
And child it up or what closer to you?

Speaker 10 (12:19):
Okay, and and why don't you do those things?

Speaker 6 (12:22):
Yeah? If you talk right into.

Speaker 5 (12:23):
That microphone, okay, good, better you can only hear me.

Speaker 10 (12:27):
We'll see how it goes.

Speaker 7 (12:28):
But uh, alright, mister Lune, you may for see and
for uh I'm gonna try to keep my voice up
if anybody if my voice is down, if people can
raise their hand, I can see you guys now because
you're not behind me, so all glance over there and
nature I'm keeping my voice up, mister Donald's if you
don't hear me either, cause I'm not used to the
mask either. If you don't hear me, let me know

(12:49):
and I will repeat myself. Okay. Yes.

Speaker 11 (12:51):
One other thing is that I know it's a little
maybe a little uncomfortable about mask U pie, So doesn't
slip down.

Speaker 10 (12:58):
That doesn't have to keep reminding you. I get that's good,
all right.

Speaker 7 (13:02):
If you pinched, if you pinched the little nose thing
on top, it'll.

Speaker 12 (13:06):
Okay, yeah, begins a little uh, there's a little fer thing.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Okay, okay, may I begin you're on?

Speaker 4 (13:17):
Yes, this is such a nightmare during COVID. I had
two trials I went to during COVID. One was Gallaine
Maxwell and every time and Larry Ray it was like
this for the beginning. Larry Ray, yeah, I think both
of them. The beginning of Gallaine Maxwell, we could wear

(13:41):
any mask we wanted, and then I believe by the
end it switched to only nine ninety five masks, and
Larry Ray was the same. And just to sit in
court a whole day with these masks on you just
it's it's intense. You're concentrating really hard on the testimony,

(14:02):
not missing anything, it's all new to you. And just
to be like just breathing your like this kind of
close air for hours and hours, it's just makes it
extremely uncomfortable. I don't I'm not nostalgic for that time, ma'am.

Speaker 7 (14:23):
Where do you currently reside? I don't mean your address,
but the city and state are sufficient.

Speaker 5 (14:29):
Campbell Hall, New York.

Speaker 7 (14:31):
And how long have you lived in Campbellhall, New York?

Speaker 5 (14:35):
Thirteen years?

Speaker 7 (14:37):
And is it fair to say that you're from the
East Coast?

Speaker 5 (14:40):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (14:41):
And when did you get to California? Meaning when did
did you you came to California? Yesterday? Not a trick question.

Speaker 8 (14:52):
No, okay, okay, yes, I flew in yesterday, okay.

Speaker 7 (14:56):
And what do you do for a living.

Speaker 5 (15:00):
Art teacher?

Speaker 7 (15:01):
And how long have you been doing that?

Speaker 5 (15:05):
Ten years?

Speaker 7 (15:07):
Do you recognize I'm going to point to this part.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
Wait, she's teaching people art, is Woody Allen Wright? Those
that can't do teach. I'm not a good artist myself, particularly,
but I feel like maybe, I don't know, I feel

(15:31):
like maybe I can make something more compelling than this.
I don't know. What do you guys think? I don't know.
She's an art teacher. So disturbing the characters we have
teaching our children, isn't it. I'm a part time murderer groupie.
I gripped off of Robert Gredurst, helping him try to

(15:53):
get away with his murderers, and then I teach art
too on the side.

Speaker 13 (16:02):
Oh and I want to ask you and mister Durst,
for the record, has just lifted his hand up and
waved to the witness your honor, ma'am.

Speaker 7 (16:15):
Do you consider yourself?

Speaker 4 (16:18):
She's talking to herself. She's like numb, That's what I
hear through my headphones, Like this, I numb? What is
she doing on this stand? Truth and justice. Thank you
so much for the supersticker. I appreciate it. Thank you
before to make sure I did. Oh my lord, oh

(16:38):
my lord.

Speaker 7 (16:39):
What's going on as you sit up there today to
be an unbiased witness? Yes? Do you agree that you
have strong feelings towards mister Durst? Yes? Do you believe
that in any way those strong feelings potentially prevent you
from being as unbiased as you would like?

Speaker 8 (17:02):
I would I am unbiased?

Speaker 5 (17:05):
Yes, I'm totally.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
So this is a technique that's pretty pretty crafty of
John Low, and he talks about He says the way
lawyers are taught my interview with him is wrong. He
says they're taught to control the question, that the question
question is everything and the answer doesn't matter. He said,

(17:28):
that's so arrogant. The point is to ask the questions
of which there is no good answer. So what is
the good answer to are you a totally unbiased witness?
If when you're close with Robert Durst, if you say yes,
I'm totally biased because I'm helped Robert Durst try to

(17:51):
get away with his crime. Now you're useful to the
prosecution in that way. So anything that the defense might
use will be helpful, it won't be helpful to them,
excuse me? Or if you say no, I'm not biased,
then you're going to get impeached like three thousand times,

(18:12):
which she does. So just a little note on his
technique there, unbiased.

Speaker 5 (18:18):
Let me ask you, my feeling is none.

Speaker 7 (18:22):
You have several children? Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (18:25):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (18:26):
I want you to assume for a moment, if one
of your children we're sitting in mister Durr seat, would
you still consider yourself to be unbiased?

Speaker 10 (18:34):
Grounds you've mean an answered.

Speaker 7 (18:39):
Yes, would you consider yourself to be unbiased even if
one of your children were sitting there? So, in essence,
your position is is that no matter who is on trial,
it doesn't matter for you. If you're sitting up there,
you are a completely unbiased witness.

Speaker 5 (18:55):
Yes.

Speaker 7 (18:59):
How would you describe your current relationship with Robert Durst?

Speaker 5 (19:07):
We were very dear friends.

Speaker 8 (19:09):
If we don't speak very often now, but he's a
very dear friend of mine.

Speaker 7 (19:15):
And when you say friend, would that be the extent
of what you would call the relationship?

Speaker 5 (19:23):
It's platonic?

Speaker 6 (19:24):
Yes? Is that?

Speaker 7 (19:26):
And when you say platonic, can you define what you
mean by that?

Speaker 8 (19:34):
We don't have a relationship in that where other people have,
like we're best friends were I don't understand platonic is
best friends with someone?

Speaker 7 (19:49):
I mean, obviously, mister Durst is in custody, so you
could not have a sexual relationship with him now because
he's in custody.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
Correct, And I did not in the past.

Speaker 7 (19:57):
So if I were to ask you, do you you
consider you and mister Durst to have in any way
a romantic relationship, what would be your answer?

Speaker 5 (20:07):
We do not have a romantic relationship.

Speaker 7 (20:10):
Have you ever had a romantic relationship? No? And have
you always in the past said that your relationship with
mister Durs was purely platonic. Yes, you've been asked this
numerous times. Is that correct? The nature of the relationship. Oh,
you need to answer out loud because the court reporter
you're nodding, but she can't.

Speaker 5 (20:30):
Can you repeat that?

Speaker 7 (20:31):
Sure? You've been asked numerous times in the past that
exact question, the nature of relationship, and you've said that
it's platonic. Is that right? Yes, you said it was
platonic when you were interviewed on March sixteenth, twenty fifteen. Correct. Correct,
you said it was patonic when you're interviewed on April eighteen,
twenty fifteen. Correct, you described it as platonic when you

(20:54):
testified in court under OH on February fifteen, twenty seventeen.
Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (20:59):
Correct?

Speaker 7 (21:02):
As you sit here right now, ma'am, I just want
to give you one more opportunity. Is it still your position? Yes?
That well, I need to finish my question. I think
I know what the answer is going to be, but
let me just finish if you can. So the core reporter,
So what you're doing, and it's completely normal, but witnesses,
when you understand where my question is going, you're kind

(21:22):
of cutting me off and I can't finish, And the
problem is the core reporter has to get it down.
So if you can wait completely till I stop talking,
does that do you understand?

Speaker 5 (21:31):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (21:31):
So I just want to ask you. If I say
right now.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
I would say she's a no dummy. So she comes
off like maybe a little eccentric or dumb, but I'd
say that there's a reason why she's doing this. She's
trying to throw them off his rhythm. She knows that
the court reporter can't answer these things, can't write them down,
and it will delay. She wants to do anything but

(21:58):
delay the immediate hardship of having to answer these questions.
Technique that Robert Durst also used when he used a tablet,
saying that he couldn't hear very well, a little bit
like Donna Aedelson's europhones that she used. That he couldn't
hear very well, so he needed a tablet up there

(22:18):
to read the John Lewin's questions during cross examination, and
when he got a particularly tough question, he took an
awful long time to read it and answer it, so
it gave him some time to think about his answers
because his story was concocted or lies or lacked candor

(22:41):
whatever you want to call it, and he needed to
take some time before he could answer it think about
how it would play with the rest of his lies.

Speaker 7 (22:56):
Do you in any way want to change your assessment
of the relationship as to being more than just friends
or platonic?

Speaker 6 (23:03):
No?

Speaker 7 (23:05):
Do you love Bob Durst absolutely? Have you told him
repeatedly that you love him absolutely? Do you tell him
repeatedly in phone calls that you miss him?

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (23:21):
Do you talk about in the numerous phone calls you've
had with him spending your rest of your lives together,
I have, yes. Do you talk about living together in
the same house together?

Speaker 5 (23:39):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (23:40):
And is it your opinion, ma'am, that that is the
definition of a platonic, just friendly relationship.

Speaker 5 (23:47):
Yes.

Speaker 7 (23:50):
Have you previously told Andrew Dureki you spoke to him
two different times?

Speaker 5 (23:55):
That correct, spoke to Andrew Direki a lot.

Speaker 7 (24:00):
You were filmed speaking to him two different times, Is
that correct?

Speaker 5 (24:03):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (24:03):
And you knew the cameras were going it was filmed correct.
One of those was on March tenth, twenty fourteen. Correct.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
So they're talking about Andrew Jireki, the director of The
Jinks and The Jinks Part two. I actually liked The
Jinks Part two a lot more than the Jinks Part one.
I thought it was a lot more interesting.

Speaker 7 (24:28):
Does that sound about right? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (24:30):
I mean one of the exact date, but yes, I do.

Speaker 7 (24:32):
And the other one was literally the premiere the night
of episode six, the finale, the day after Bob Durst
has been arrested.

Speaker 6 (24:43):
Is that right?

Speaker 5 (24:44):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (24:45):
Do you recall telling mister Jareki in twenty fourteen that
there was nobody who was closer to Bob Durst, including
Bob Durst's wife than you.

Speaker 5 (24:57):
I never mentioned his wife, did you say, I don't know.

Speaker 7 (25:02):
Did you say specifically ma'am where you asked the following question.
But it seems like there's nobody closer. From what I
can tell, it seems like there's nobody closer than you.
And you responded no, meaning you're the closest one to them. Correct.

Speaker 8 (25:19):
I would as if yes, as friend not being never
brought up his wife, So I think I am very
very close.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
So she's another criminally minded, dark personality who attached yourself
for financial gain to Robert Durst. Here's what John Lewin
said about how he prepared for this interview. Let's take
a listen together.

Speaker 7 (25:48):
Put the clips together. You know, I would say I
want this clip, and Ethan would pull it and have
it ready, et cetera. So we had thousands of clips
pulled on this case, and then I would make out
my xamination plan. Bob durst cross examination plan was more
than two hundred pages. Sigi Giardano's was I think about
one hundred pages, and so I knew exactly where I

(26:10):
was going to go. So one of the things with
Susie Giardano was that I wanted to get Susie to
say that the suitcase was empty when she got it
and a trial. She fell right into the trap and admitted,
I once you assume for a moment that those envelopes
contained roughly one hundred and fifteen thousand dollars, that they

(26:32):
were inside the suitcase when the FBI opened it, told
do you know how that got there?

Speaker 6 (26:41):
I was in there.

Speaker 7 (26:44):
I did well, ma'am, you just testified that you took
two empty suitcases and you put clothes inside.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
I did.

Speaker 5 (26:52):
I just threw everything, and like I said, my call
was running. I well see in the video. I was
in there a probably threes and seven and I ran
before I would give to so, ma'am.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Papers honestly in there, I didn't know I people's.

Speaker 7 (27:11):
Two eighteen nineteen. Excuse me, ma'am. When you want the envelope, do.

Speaker 10 (27:18):
You see that?

Speaker 7 (27:18):
Was that in the suitcase when you packed it?

Speaker 14 (27:22):
Did not look through anything. You would not see nothing
on there is They didn't touch anything. There is nothing
I touched.

Speaker 7 (27:35):
So a lot of cash, isn't it?

Speaker 4 (27:37):
So maybe she worked gloves. This is like a way
that people lie. You won't find my fingerprints on it,
She admitted to packing the suitcase. This is when Robert
Durst was on the run after the Jinks, when he
had that creepy mask. The Chinks Part two hadn't been

(27:57):
made at the time of this trial.

Speaker 7 (28:00):
It is so, ma'am, can you explain how roughly a.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
Hun Actually, I don't know if it had been made
or not, but it wasn't out And I think a
lot of these interviews were done for the Jinx part
too after the trial.

Speaker 7 (28:14):
For fifteen thousand dollars worth of cash.

Speaker 10 (28:17):
You got into an empty.

Speaker 7 (28:18):
Suitcase that you yourself didn't tell somebody you do.

Speaker 8 (28:22):
You want?

Speaker 14 (28:23):
Like I said it was you did go through an
I didn't touch you have.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
Like I did not touch.

Speaker 7 (28:33):
Those homes man. That's why I asked you first if
they were empty?

Speaker 5 (28:37):
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
It was dark, I.

Speaker 7 (28:42):
Ma'am, where if the ideas, ma'am. You just you testified,
ma'am that the suitcases were empty, correct, you just justified
that five minutes ago, right?

Speaker 5 (28:54):
Yes, I didn't help about it was a tall suitise.

Speaker 7 (28:58):
I literally moving in this video for three minutes.

Speaker 14 (29:02):
I I took a few things they weren'tly packed.

Speaker 7 (29:08):
I threw them in there and I left anders in there.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
I'm sorry I didn't work.

Speaker 7 (29:13):
And I just want to ask you man. You're saying
that's what happened, correct, what happened? I want to ask
you if you were listening to that story yourself finish,
I can finish.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
My question is support These are the crappy ones, mount
would you agree now?

Speaker 7 (29:35):
And even if your position is I'm gonna and in
listening to the story, it does not sound very reasonable.

Speaker 4 (29:43):
They're not the good ones.

Speaker 7 (29:46):
No, So to you, it sounds like a reasonable story
that you took an empty suitcase that had nothing in it,
that you happy yourself, and that one hundred and fifteen
thousand dollars in that suitcase underneath the clothing, but you
didn't know it was there. That sounds reasonable to you.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
It's reasonable what happened.

Speaker 7 (30:08):
Once she said that, and then I would say and
so you then you took that empty suitcase and you
and she would say yes, yes, yes, And I know
that the guillotine is coming, because obviously if the suitcase
was empty when you started, how the money get there?
It was very clear that she was uh completely lying.
You know she is. She has gotten The evidence shows

(30:30):
that Bob gave her somewhere probably around half million dollars.
So all of the cute see stuff she would do
in the crying, et cetera. She's pretty good actress.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
I didn't think so at all. I thought she was
a wreck on the stand.

Speaker 7 (30:45):
This is what I mean. She warns a wreck on
the stand. But the poor little me, et cetera, that
whole routine. Gene Clark, the other woman that don't if
you remember her? Do you remember Jeene Clark?

Speaker 4 (31:00):
Yes, Jeane Clark was.

Speaker 7 (31:03):
A tough lady, okay, and she was also trying to
get money from Bob. And Jeane appeared a lot smarter
than Susie. But if you look, Jane didn't get any money.
Susie got half a million bucks. So Susie was pretty
good at playing different areas of manipulation.

Speaker 4 (31:19):
Susie ju your daughters in the memory, just doing these
exasperated like every time she would get caught in alije.
We can get back to this interview. We can't get
back to this interview. Let's go back to her testimony.
Oh lah, oh you can hear me, okaynxs all right,

(31:52):
here you go.

Speaker 8 (31:55):
And I do feel that I was closer to him
than most people.

Speaker 5 (31:58):
Well, so he's closer to me than anyone else.

Speaker 6 (32:01):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (32:03):
He was my closest friend, you know, I don't the
person I went to.

Speaker 7 (32:09):
And you actually testified, ma'am on February fifteen, twenty seventeen,
you were asked these questions and you said that absolutely,
although you love him, you would not refer to him
as a boyfriend. Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (32:26):
Correct?

Speaker 7 (32:27):
Now? The testimony that you testified to that took place
on February fifteen, twenty seventeen, and that was in front
of Judge Wyndham, seated to your left, correct, to your right, right,
to your right, Thank you, and ma'am. At the time
that you testified, I want you to listen to this

(32:49):
question very carefully. Were you completely truthful in all of
your answers?

Speaker 5 (32:55):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (32:56):
Now, during your prior testimony, ma'am, do you recall that
you would be asked question and then pretty repeatedly you
would be confronted with clips audio clips of what you've
said before? Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (33:09):
Correct?

Speaker 7 (33:10):
As you sit here today, are you thinking about whether
or not when I asked a question that I'm going
to pop a clip up there?

Speaker 6 (33:19):
No?

Speaker 4 (33:19):
Not really.

Speaker 7 (33:21):
You have an attorney here in court today who is
an attorney from New York Is that right? Yes? And
that attorney has been basically representing you in this case
since shortly after mister Durs was arrested in March of
twenty fifteen. Correct, Yes, who's paying for that attorney?

Speaker 8 (33:44):
Actually, that was a supposed to come from money that
Bob had gave me a long time ago.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
That's and he hasn't been paid as of yet. If
you the rest of.

Speaker 7 (33:58):
Man, would the answer be that Bob Durst is paying
for that attorney?

Speaker 8 (34:01):
Well, it came from money from yeah at this but
I still owe the lawyer money right now, I don't ma'am.

Speaker 7 (34:08):
Is it your understanding that you will be paying the
lawyer the money out of your pocket or that mister
Durst will be paying or reinvert?

Speaker 8 (34:14):
Honestly, my lawyer didn't even ask anything as of now,
so I don't know.

Speaker 7 (34:21):
I don't know yet, ma'am. I'm not asking what your
lawyer asked you. I'm saying, is it your understanding as
you sit here today? Is it your belief that mister
Durst is paying for your lawyer?

Speaker 5 (34:36):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (34:38):
And in fact, was your lawyer present you and I
have met before? Is that right? Yes? I flew out
to New York with investigators and we interviewed you way
back in April of twenty fifteen. Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (34:52):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (34:53):
Was your lawyer present for that for that interview?

Speaker 5 (34:56):
Yes.

Speaker 7 (34:58):
Now I want to go way back and I want
want you to tell us how did you and Bob
Durst originally meet?

Speaker 5 (35:10):
Way back?

Speaker 8 (35:11):
I started working at an ad agency and I did
want to meet mister Durst.

Speaker 5 (35:18):
And there's a mutual friend that we had.

Speaker 7 (35:22):
And let me stop you. Who's the mutual friend.

Speaker 8 (35:27):
Nick Chaven. Nick and I worked at the same agency.
I didn't work for him at the time, so I
knew Nick Chaven and I wanted to meet Bob Durst.
I was single and I wanted to meet with him.
Bob was very busy at the time, so it took

(35:47):
me a very long time. When he was in Texas,
I finally wrote to him reminded him of you.

Speaker 7 (35:52):
I want to stop him. Man, the time that you're describing,
when was this approximately what year when.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
You first met him first? I mean, this is unbelievable.
This is unbelievable. It's like, I want to meet that man,
has nothing to do with it. He's so so rich.
You guys. The mixed nuts scandal there, the mixed nuts here, like,

(36:23):
you're not gonna want those, honey, You're not gonna want those.
They're not the good ones. They're not the ones you like, honey.
So that is Susie dear Donna, just the nut nutcase,

(36:45):
total nuts.

Speaker 8 (36:46):
Time I wanted to go out was nineteen eighty seven.

Speaker 7 (36:51):
And how old were you back then? I was twenty
one and fair to say mister Duris would have been
forty four? Is that right?

Speaker 5 (36:59):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (36:59):
And you had an interest in mister Durst, is that correct?

Speaker 4 (37:03):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (37:03):
Did you know that mister Jurrest was wealthy?

Speaker 4 (37:05):
Not a twenty one?

Speaker 7 (37:06):
No?

Speaker 5 (37:07):
Twenty one?

Speaker 4 (37:08):
No, I don't didn't realize.

Speaker 8 (37:11):
Just knew he was a friend of Nick and he
was a client, and that was it.

Speaker 7 (37:15):
So you're working at this ad agency with Nick Javen, Yes,
and you agree that Nick and Bob were very close friends. Correct, Yes,
And you had an interest in dating mister Durst, but
you had no idea at the time that mister Durst
was from one of the wealthiest families in all of
New York.

Speaker 5 (37:34):
That's right.

Speaker 7 (37:36):
When did you learn that he was as wealthy as
he is?

Speaker 5 (37:41):
When I wanted to go out with him. I must
have been. It was a few years later.

Speaker 8 (37:46):
I mean I was in the art department, so I
didn't do any financials and there was a lot of clients, so.

Speaker 5 (37:52):
That's it. I was the art person.

Speaker 7 (37:54):
Did you know when you first met Bob Durst, did
you know that his wife had disappeared?

Speaker 4 (38:03):
How was this woman the art woman for anything? How
is this woman the art woman for anything? You mean,
no artists, but I feel like I could do a
better job.

Speaker 5 (38:20):
No, yes, did you.

Speaker 7 (38:29):
Tell Nick Shaban that you were interested in dating Bob?

Speaker 5 (38:34):
I told Nick.

Speaker 8 (38:36):
In an elevator in nineteen eighty seven that I wanted
to meet with him, and.

Speaker 5 (38:42):
He said, meet with him Bob. I'm sorry, Yes, I
wanted to meet Bob.

Speaker 8 (38:47):
And he said to me, well, he's kind of married.
And I asked him what that meant, and he said
that his wife had disappeared, but.

Speaker 5 (39:00):
Made a kind of a joke out of it, like
she left him.

Speaker 7 (39:03):
And ma'am, So, what was it that attracted you, at
age twenty one to this man more than twice your age,
who you didn't know was wealthy?

Speaker 8 (39:14):
Okay, well, you know, I mean a lot of people
in my family are a lot older, so I don't
think the age really mattered.

Speaker 5 (39:22):
I just knew that Nick would talk. He would speak.

Speaker 8 (39:25):
About Bob highly, and I knew he was good friends
And I knew Nick so from his personality, the you
know and what I've.

Speaker 5 (39:33):
Learned from everyone, that Bob was a lot of fun.

Speaker 7 (39:37):
And at this point, though, you do not know that
Bob is part of a billionaire room swear. No, okay,
it's foundational to impeach me.

Speaker 5 (39:50):
You're on it.

Speaker 10 (39:52):
Let me look, let me look. You may see it
just a moment, so sustain.

Speaker 7 (40:11):
At this point, ma'am, did you know that Bob Durst
was part of a billionaire real estate family.

Speaker 5 (40:18):
I knew he was part of a family. I had
no idea how much I.

Speaker 7 (40:23):
Didn't you, ma'am. Did you know that he was wealthy?

Speaker 6 (40:32):
No?

Speaker 5 (40:32):
I didn't even I didn't know what they owned.

Speaker 8 (40:34):
I just knew he there was a real estate family,
just as many other I could rattle of ten other
clients that we had, I wouldn't know. I could name
ten more real estate development companies that we worked with
at the time. I no, I don't know how big
the family is or how much each individual person is worth.

Speaker 7 (40:53):
I was twenty one, ma'am. Isn't it true that you
were aware from Nick Chaban at the time that Bob
Durst was calls your biggest client. Not for the truth
of the matter, asserted, I'm sorry.

Speaker 10 (41:05):
Not over not on those grounds.

Speaker 7 (41:08):
Hold on, ma'am. Yes, did you hear my question?

Speaker 10 (41:11):
It's the leading, the leading part, not the hearsay part.

Speaker 7 (41:14):
Yes. Wait, it's sustained on leading rounds leading, yes, hearsay No.
So just to ask directly, ma'am, yes, at the time, yes,
was Bob Durst one of the, if not the biggest,
one of the biggest clients of that firm.

Speaker 8 (41:39):
I would say those three other companies that were just
about the same like that did a lot more advertising.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
So yeah, there was a couple of others.

Speaker 7 (41:49):
So, ma'am, So you knew at the time then that
Bob Durst was part of a family that was one
of Nick Chaven's firm's biggest clients. Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (42:01):
Object the allegations?

Speaker 11 (42:05):
Okay, well we have a side Barty because I want.

Speaker 10 (42:11):
Okay, yeah, sidebar.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
Speed through this side. But we're back already.

Speaker 7 (42:22):
Because not the biggest one of the biggest clients of that.

Speaker 8 (42:26):
Firm, I would say those three other companies that were
just about the same like that did a lot more advertising.

Speaker 5 (42:40):
So yeah, there was a couple of others.

Speaker 7 (42:43):
So, ma'am. So you knew at the time then that
Bob Durst was part of a family that was one
of Nick Chaven's firm's biggest clients. Is that correct?

Speaker 11 (42:55):
Objection to the allegations? Okay, well we have a side
party because I wanted to. Okay, sidebar five? Fine, do
you on off the records? Give you off the records?

Speaker 10 (43:10):
You can't? What does gm moment?

Speaker 6 (43:12):
Folks?

Speaker 4 (43:17):
Are they going to cut this out too? Now? That's yes,
maybe maybe.

Speaker 8 (43:28):
You can't.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
Let me move past us. Every time I do, they
seem like they're cutting in.

Speaker 10 (44:02):
You may continue with their examination.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
Yeah, there we go.

Speaker 7 (44:05):
Your original relationship when you first met mister Durst very
shortly after at age twenty one, you were interested in
him romantically. Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (44:15):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (44:16):
Did the two of you you said you brought that
up to Nick Chabin. Did the two of you, you
and mister Durst end up dating back at that time?

Speaker 1 (44:24):
No?

Speaker 7 (44:25):
Did you end up even having a conversation with mister
Durst where you, in essence expressed your interest.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
In a timeline back then, back then?

Speaker 4 (44:40):
No?

Speaker 7 (44:40):
And so you were at twenty one where you single
back then?

Speaker 8 (44:43):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (44:44):
And are you single today?

Speaker 6 (44:49):
No?

Speaker 7 (44:49):
And have you been how many times have you been
married between?

Speaker 8 (44:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (44:55):
I had the same impression when I first watched this trial, Doris,
but then watching back and then talking to Lone, he
said he was actually a pretty fair judge. He let
he let Lewin do a lot in this trial. Like
one of the things he let him do was use
film in the opening, which I think was unfair to

(45:19):
the defense. And you know, I'm generally a little bit
more prosecution friendly. They let them use clips from All
Good Things, the movie about Robert Durst to highlight their narrative,
and I didn't think that was very fair. But I
think it's complicated the way they got it in. I

(45:41):
think it's some of them. I think some of the
comments correct me if I'm wrong. I thought some of
the comments that he made about All Good Things let
that in. It was a really unusual ruling. The whole case,
Judge Wyndham said, was like one of the most unusual
favorite ones of his cases. It's the most incredible trial

(46:03):
to watch. I mean, this is just for me, it's
great fun to always watch this watch this trial so well.
The prosecution is so well done, and the characters are
so interesting. I mean, before this he talks about what
was her name? He mentioned her name on She really

(46:27):
was a tough, tough woman who tried to get Robert
Durre's money and didn't get much of it. Trying to
think of her name, I'll think of it in a second,
give me a hot minute. Anybody remembers throat in the chat.
But she was like something like the opposite, totally shut

(46:50):
down the prosecution, and you could tell she was lying,
but she wasn't gonna she wasn't gonna say much on
the stand.

Speaker 10 (47:00):
And then.

Speaker 7 (47:02):
Three, okay, and so this is before any of the
marriages and before you were involved with anybody at that time. Yes, okay,
So at that point in time, you and mister Durst
don't end up dating. Did the two of you continue
to have any contactors? It just threw u the work

(47:24):
that Nick Chaven.

Speaker 5 (47:24):
Was doing for Maybe it's just the work.

Speaker 7 (47:28):
How often would you see Bob Drst back then?

Speaker 8 (47:33):
Not often? Maybe once a year. And I'm trying to
think of a year I had stopped working for a
while at the agency, So it wasn't until.

Speaker 5 (47:54):
I wrote to when he was in Texas. So no,
I didn't see him very often at all.

Speaker 7 (47:59):
So did you have any personal conversations with mister Durst
other than maybe hello or you know, goodbye bringing him in.

Speaker 5 (48:07):
Not until later?

Speaker 7 (48:09):
Okay, So that's a lot of years that go by,
is that right?

Speaker 5 (48:13):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (48:14):
How was it that the two of you became reacquainted
or reconnected? I wrote to him, and when was.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
This when he was in Galveston?

Speaker 7 (48:26):
And would it be fair to say then that that
would be sometime between November thirtieth, I'm sorry, sometime between
in two thousand and two or two thousand and three.

Speaker 5 (48:39):
Okay, yeah, sounds.

Speaker 10 (48:42):
Exactly.

Speaker 7 (48:43):
At that time, were you single or married? I was
single and had you already been married by then?

Speaker 5 (48:51):
I was single till a couple of years after.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
Jean Clark is who I was trying to think of.
Jean Clark. It's a testimony right before this. It's right
in front of my face, Jean Clark. Jean Clark, Look,
Jean Clark and cz Giardano right in front of my face. Beer,
oh Cia versus Robert Durst. Yeah, that's the woman I
was thinking of Gee, is a tough, tough, mean woman.

Speaker 7 (49:20):
No, so let me I didn't say this, right. So
we left off in nineteen eighty seven approximately for the
early nineties, and now it's two thousand and.

Speaker 5 (49:31):
Two, right, so it was divorced.

Speaker 7 (49:33):
Right, So you were divorced. Did you already have children
at this point? Yes, So you're divorced and you end
up reconnecting with mister Durst. How did you end up
reconnecting with him?

Speaker 5 (49:46):
I decided to write him.

Speaker 8 (49:49):
I don't understand. I wrote to him, and you responded.

Speaker 7 (49:51):
I said, well, I'm just trying to understand. You haven't
seen him, You've really had no relationship with him other
than saying hello and goodbye through mister Chaban. I'm just
trying to figure out what was it that led you
to recontact him.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
Well, I was writing at the time. I did write
to him.

Speaker 8 (50:10):
And ask him if he was interested in writing a book,
because at one time you wanted.

Speaker 5 (50:16):
To write a book.

Speaker 8 (50:17):
So I did write a few books, and I contacted
him and asked him if he.

Speaker 5 (50:20):
Was interested in telling his story. That's what the first
letter is that I sent him.

Speaker 7 (50:26):
So, had you ever had a personal conversation of any
length prior to sending him this letter. No, And when
you sent him this letter, was this after you became
aware that he had been charged with Morris Black's murder
and was accused of killing and dismembering him. It was

(50:48):
after and you were also aware that he was a
suspect in the disappearance of his wife Kathy.

Speaker 6 (50:54):
Is that right?

Speaker 5 (50:55):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (50:57):
And so in contact after you write a book, is
it fair to say that you were looking to make some.

Speaker 5 (51:04):
Money in writing a book?

Speaker 6 (51:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (51:10):
I thought it would certainly be good for a career move.

Speaker 5 (51:15):
Yeah, so I guess yes.

Speaker 7 (51:17):
So you find mister Durst and you send him a letter.
What happens after you send him a letter?

Speaker 5 (51:27):
He wrote me back and.

Speaker 8 (51:32):
Just you know, ask me questions that what I've written,
asked questions about Nick.

Speaker 5 (51:44):
Like I don't know.

Speaker 8 (51:45):
I don't know exactly the letter, but he did write
me back. I honestly, I don't remember the whole content
of the letter.

Speaker 5 (51:51):
That was a long time ago.

Speaker 7 (51:52):
Were you a published author at that time?

Speaker 5 (51:55):
As self published?

Speaker 7 (51:57):
Had you ever been paid as a reporter or as
an author at that point.

Speaker 5 (52:02):
Commission on the books that I've written? But, like I said,
I self published the book.

Speaker 7 (52:08):
Well, so that means so, in essence, you basically wrote
a book, paid to publish that book, and then you
would have kept whatever sales you made for the book.
Is that correct?

Speaker 8 (52:19):
Yes, I didn't have to put money out, but it
was the same type of thing.

Speaker 7 (52:23):
And how much money had you made at that point? Approximately?

Speaker 5 (52:26):
Oh? And honestly I don't, I don't even know.

Speaker 6 (52:29):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (52:30):
It wasn't a whole but it wasn't like buying cars. Yeah,
it is very little.

Speaker 7 (52:37):
Fair to say, ma'am. You were somebody who was interested
in potentially becoming a paid author, but you really weren't
one yet, right, And Bob Durst had a big story
and a big name, and you saw opportunity.

Speaker 10 (52:51):
Is that right?

Speaker 4 (52:52):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (52:53):
So you end up contacting him. Did you ever travel
to Galveston to visit him while he was in custody
waiting Trump? How often did you visit him?

Speaker 5 (53:08):
Four times? Maybe? Maybe four?

Speaker 7 (53:12):
And did you do this at your own expense?

Speaker 5 (53:20):
He paid for me? I paid one, I paid and
then and then he paid. Well, it wasn't I don't
know honestly how many times, But.

Speaker 7 (53:28):
I, ma'am, if we use your best memory, isn't it
correct that. In fact, Bob Durst primarily paid for you
and sometimes your family members to fly down to see he.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
Did, Yes, he did, and he did pay for my sons. Yes.

Speaker 7 (53:41):
So when you say you paid.

Speaker 5 (53:43):
That's that time. Definitely.

Speaker 7 (53:44):
Yet, so when you say you paid, ma'am, what you
mean is is you might have for one of the trips,
paid something of one trip, but primarily he was paying
the bills right.

Speaker 5 (53:55):
For me to get there, yes, And was he.

Speaker 7 (53:57):
Paying for your food and hotel while you were there?

Speaker 8 (54:01):
I paid my own food, probably probably paid the hotel.

Speaker 5 (54:05):
Yes, I paid for my food or my travel.

Speaker 7 (54:08):
Now at this point in time, you had remarried, right, yes,
did your husband go with you?

Speaker 5 (54:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (54:19):
How did you explain that one schection?

Speaker 6 (54:21):
Your honor.

Speaker 7 (54:24):
Derek? Can they stay the grounds? He's just saying.

Speaker 11 (54:26):
Objection totally irrelevant, Okay, rude.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
So both of these lawyers he's from, This lawyer saying
rude is from from he's from Las Vegas, and the
other lawyer he has it's from Texas. So they don't
know that they have to stay grounds. And that's one

(54:56):
thing that John Lewin really knows better than anyone, is
that the code that you so you're supposed to say, like,
I'm going to just say the code that the defense
learned in this case and said for almost every answer,
which was three fifty two. So when you object, you
have to say three fifty two this or that. And

(55:16):
we saw that in I believe that Karen Reed trial.
Was it a lessie? Am I wrong on this? Wasn't
it a lessie who was throwing out codes? And Judge
CANNONI was saying, you don't need to throw out the
code when you object, just object? I thought, so correct
me If I'm wrong about that, Okay.

Speaker 12 (55:37):
Well those are all over ruled, but maybe three fifty two.

Speaker 6 (55:41):
Thank you.

Speaker 10 (55:44):
You can ask a different question now.

Speaker 7 (55:47):
So you're going down there to see mister Durst. Did
your husband was he aware that you were traveling to
see him? Yes? Did your husband know that you previously
had a romantic interest in mister Durst.

Speaker 6 (55:59):
Objection around three fifty two.

Speaker 7 (56:03):
Rooms room?

Speaker 5 (56:06):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (56:08):
And was your husband okay with you going down there
given the previous romantic interest you got? Yes. At one
point you indicated that your sons actually flew down to
Galveston as well.

Speaker 6 (56:22):
Is that right?

Speaker 5 (56:22):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (56:23):
Did mister Durst actually arrange special treats for you and
your children sometimes when you would come down to Galveston.

Speaker 5 (56:32):
It was one time that gave them baseball tickets to
a baseball game.

Speaker 7 (56:38):
He actually arranged with very expensive tickets for you and
your sons to see Roger Clements pitching.

Speaker 10 (56:44):
Is that right?

Speaker 6 (56:45):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (56:45):
That was the baseball game.

Speaker 7 (56:48):
And overall how many times you think you went down there?

Speaker 5 (56:53):
I think I went there four times? I mean maybe three.

Speaker 7 (56:57):
And did you talk to him?

Speaker 10 (57:00):
Were they interviewed?

Speaker 7 (57:00):
What did you do when you were down there?

Speaker 5 (57:03):
It was only down the after the visit. I stayed
only a day or two. I did vacations. I just
went to visit him.

Speaker 7 (57:11):
When you would visit, what would you talk about? Uh?

Speaker 5 (57:18):
I honestly, how are you doing? How are you feeling?
What a mutual friend?

Speaker 6 (57:25):
Like?

Speaker 5 (57:26):
How advertising is? What career path? Am I taking conversations like?

Speaker 6 (57:31):
Not?

Speaker 7 (57:32):
Did the subject of his alleged murder and dismemberment of
Morris Black ever come up?

Speaker 5 (57:38):
No?

Speaker 4 (57:41):
That's a lie. That's a lie. But can you imagine
someone showing you this art and saying, I'm thinking about
becoming an art teacher and say go for it, and
then it works and it works. You're actually an art
art teacher's We were just talking about my career choices.

(58:06):
Your testimony is unreal and it only gets better as
it goes on. I just how do I how do
I describe John Lewin's examinations.

Speaker 6 (58:19):
They're like.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
They're really in depth, and they you get such a
full picture of what of the person that he's trying
to paint by his cross examinations. They're like a long, rich,
detailed novel. I'd say, you're not entirely true. Sure if

(58:42):
what you're seeing is entirely correct in these examinations, but
it paints such a clear picture. Like talk about his
other other interview with Robert Durst's friend who was so

(59:05):
incredibly arrogant and rude and just starts yelling at I
think it was used in the jinks. This guy like
looks like the devil and he starts yelling at Lewin
at Doug Oliver's his name, and he starts yelling at
John Lewin immediately about how you have to send me

(59:26):
a private plane. No wait, sorry, I always get this wrong.
He doesn't want John lun to send him a private plane.
He wants to take his private plane to speak with
John Lewen because he lives in New York. He's also
a real estate you know, developer mogul, kind of like
mini Trump, mini Robert Durst. You know all these guys

(59:48):
and you know that. Wait, I'm not going to get
off track. But anyway, so he says, I'll take a
plane to talk to you and to testify. I believe
if you pay the gas and what it takes, you know,
all the cost of my private planes because I'm not
flying commercial and how rude. And then he talks about
how rude John Lowin is. But then he used all

(01:00:09):
that in the examination. It didn't have to do with
anything about Robert Durst. It just made anything that he
said totally that would be helpful to Robert Durst's totally
pointless because you hated him. I mean, it just destroyed it.
I mean, he likes to destroy something he talks about

(01:00:29):
in these interviews. He likes to destroy on issues of
character before he ever gets into the really important issues
pertinent to the case. And it was curious to watch
him really fail for the first time. He's such a
winning prosecutor. In the last case that we showed is

(01:00:55):
the rapper who shot his friend, his former friend Street
he just seemed to he really couldn't get anywhere with
his directs. They didn't work. It was odd. I mean,
he scored like a few points, but different judge, he
wasn't given as much leeway, and the characters were all different.

(01:01:18):
I don't know, I'd be curious to hear what he'd
have to say about why he didn't have more success
in that trial. I don't know who the jury was,
but I mean that was some slick defense job there,
very and a lot of you know, innocence, fraud in
the public narrative and twisting of things very much like,

(01:01:42):
very much like Karen read really that case.

Speaker 7 (01:01:45):
How about the disappearance of his missing wife. No, so
you're planning on writing a book about him, but you
didn't ask about two of the main.

Speaker 5 (01:01:55):
No, because he did not agree at the time.

Speaker 8 (01:01:58):
And once he he agreed that he was going to
write the book, then I would have asked all questions.

Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
Right now, I was getting to really know him.

Speaker 7 (01:02:06):
Well, when you say you're getting to really know him,
be fair to say that you were getting to know
him in a way that was going to get you
access to his money. No, so, while you were down
in Galveston, did you eventually get access to some of
his money, including his credit cards? No? Do you recall

(01:02:29):
telling Andrew Jareki and Mark Smirling during your March tenth,
twenty fourteen interview that you handled all of Bob's credit
cards while he was in Galveston jail. No, so that
is not true.

Speaker 8 (01:02:44):
No, he had to buy a gift once, and I
didn't have the credit card information.

Speaker 5 (01:02:51):
He brought a gift for someone.

Speaker 10 (01:02:54):
That was it.

Speaker 7 (01:02:58):
He would tell you to buy gifts for other people
with his money. Correct, once he asked. When you were
interviewed by Direki and Smirling, did you in any way
indicate that it was only one time?

Speaker 5 (01:03:14):
I don't remember, but I only remember one time.

Speaker 7 (01:03:18):
Well Bob was in custody. Did he regularly send you flowers? Yes?

Speaker 5 (01:03:24):
And I used to say happy in writing on it.

Speaker 7 (01:03:27):
I thought that you didn't have any agreement to do
any writing with him.

Speaker 8 (01:03:30):
He didn't, but he knew I was still trying, whether
it was with his book or I was still trying
to write.

Speaker 7 (01:03:38):
What other writing assignments did you have at that time?

Speaker 5 (01:03:41):
I tried to take good plass and screenwriting.

Speaker 7 (01:03:45):
It's fair to say, ma'am, you didn't have any paid
writing positions at that time, Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (01:03:50):
Correct?

Speaker 7 (01:03:53):
Any of your other platonic friends regularly send you flowers?

Speaker 8 (01:03:59):
Honestly, I don't have that many friends, As I told
you once before, I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:04:04):
I'm sorry. Oh, I have family.

Speaker 7 (01:04:07):
At the time that this was going on, not only
was Bob me.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
I have family, and I get I'd just like to
attach myself to rich murderers that can give my family
half a million dollars. But what's the connection with these
dark personalities like the rest of her stuff? The connection
between dark personalities, Sorry, let me go back and not
get ahead of myself. These dark personalities and children's things

(01:04:36):
sort of these notice this, sometimes these are dark disturbed people.

Speaker 6 (01:04:44):
I get.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
Everything she's selling is like children's toys, her art. Here's
her pop kitty art. It's not even letting me pull
that up. Do you see what I'm talking about down here?

(01:05:10):
But Nickelodeon figures all that is? What's the deal with
these dark personalities and this, these children's things? Like I
don't understand that, but you see it. But then, pre juvenile,

(01:05:34):
were you married, but you.

Speaker 7 (01:05:34):
Were aware that Bob was married as well? Is that correct?

Speaker 10 (01:05:37):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (01:05:38):
Did you at all discuss anything relating at that time
to pursuing any kind of relationship with each other in
the future. I'm sorry, I'll ask again. Sure, Yeah, so
you're going down and you're visiting, you're talking.

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
About yeah, And they never found cat, and Robert Durst
never gave up the power and control of knowing. He
said he'd put her in the You know something they
mentioned in the Sopranos, that famous scene where they get

(01:06:19):
lost in the woods. What am I I'm trying to
think of the name of it. He said he left
them there. But I don't think that's true. I think
the body I don't. For some reason, I think that
body is in that lake of that house. I had
to guess. They were guessing in the nineties and the
late nineties. I remember my grandmother knew Robert Durst as

(01:06:41):
a child. Her father knew his father, I believe, and
so she followed this story and I would watch her
go through the newspaper stories. At one point they were
thinking that he dropped her remains from a private plane.
That was one story that went late nineties. But for

(01:07:02):
some reason, I think it's I don't think it's in
the in New Jersey. I don't think he brought it
to New Jersey. I think somewhere where they lived together,
with that house of the lake. I've always thought maybe
it's there somewhere in water. I think. I mean, he
put Morris Black in water, why wouldn't he put Kathy

(01:07:24):
in water? I think he probably dis remembered her too,
if I had to guess. If you're just tuning in,
we're just having like a hangout and talking about Susie Giordano,
who was Robert Durst's platonic friend and only platonic friend,
although they were going to buy a love nest together.

(01:07:45):
This is the her direct examination, although it really does
feel like a cross examination in the Robert Durst trial.
I think this was twenty twenty different things in twenty one.

Speaker 7 (01:08:02):
Did the two of you at that time have any
discussions about pursuing a romantic relationship in the future of No,
you're on again, I'm gonna ask that. No, no, but
he's not. He doesn't stay yet. Oh, then if he
can speak, what was your jection, I didn't hear it. Okay,

(01:08:25):
if if mister I'll speak, La, thank you, I appreciating him.

Speaker 4 (01:08:30):
Hey, Melanie, nice to see you now today I've made
a ton of shorts in the past two or three days.
I made one ten minute video from the interview I
did with Brendan that has video and it has audio

(01:08:51):
of our interview together using other clips and shorts. So
there's tons of stuff on Karen Reid. We'll get back
to it. This is just a little blowing off steam Brake.
I'm having tonight just to hang out. Tonight just sort
of more of a hangout, relaxed episode. It's just a

(01:09:14):
small story. So this woman Melanie, since she came in late.
This woman Susie Giordana, who got up half a million
dollars from Robert Durst by being just being his friend.
She sent him money in a suitcase while he was
running from the law after the Jinx came out and
he thought he was going to be arrested, which he was,

(01:09:37):
for the murder of Susan Berman. She sent him all
this money on the run in a suitcase and said
she didn't know it was in the suitcase because she
packed it so fast and it was dark. Now that
Robert Durst is dead and she can no longer grift,
she's still grifting off of his murder by selling art

(01:09:59):
su These Art and Gift Cottage on Evay, the Three
Witches and Cat Robert Durst artist. That's how she builds herself,
and that's that nobody else is talking about this story.
I would I would talk about her and talk about
her incredible direct examination in the Robert Durst trial.

Speaker 7 (01:10:23):
So ma'ama, I couldn't hear you, Rachel, let me ask
this again.

Speaker 5 (01:10:29):
No, it was no. No, I'm not telling you.

Speaker 6 (01:10:32):
No.

Speaker 5 (01:10:32):
You couldn't repeat it.

Speaker 7 (01:10:33):
So you had originally wanted to date mister Durst approximately twelve, thirteen,
fifteen years earlier. Is that correct? Nice?

Speaker 5 (01:10:54):
Yes, yes, I just had to think because then I
say the wrong thing. It's yes.

Speaker 6 (01:10:58):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:10:58):
So now you're down in visiting Galveston, you're telling me
you have no interest in any romantic relationship anymore.

Speaker 8 (01:11:06):
No, we honestly, we'll building a very strong friendship.

Speaker 4 (01:11:12):
I mean you didn't, yeah, you know in the beginning, Melanie,
I mean, what can I say about Michael Proctor? I
was very supportive of Michael Proctor. I generally feel he's
a good cop. But he just didn't seem to gain

(01:11:37):
any wisdom from that, you know, from that experience. I
don't know. I hope that I wish them well. They
all underestimated Karen Reid. That's what I can say about it.
They all underestimated Karen Reid, and I'm well aware of

(01:11:59):
the just another casualty of these innocence for our campaigns. Sad.
It's just sad.

Speaker 6 (01:12:11):
But I.

Speaker 7 (01:12:14):
Don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
I feel like I'm watching the civil lawyers make the
same kind of mistakes that the Commonwealth, especially in the
second case, made by going You know, I just think this.
I hope I'm wrong, but I think this lawyer is
the wrong lawyer for this case. I know she has

(01:12:41):
experience since two thousand and four in this particular area,
but I think it would be better just to keep
the lawyers they have. I don't think they need her.
I think she's going to work counter. I think she's
going to actually be a help to Karen read. That's
my take on it. I have my I think I
talked about some of them. You I just don't see her.

(01:13:06):
You have to be really brave to face an innocent
fraud campaign. And it just makes me think that they
think that they need to win this on like in court.
They have everything they need to win in court. It's
how are they gonna strategize to deal with the innocence
fraud campaign coming into the courtroom, and how are they

(01:13:28):
going to strategize to stick to every detail of the facts.
So Karen Reid has nowhere to go and bravely delve
into each fact. Just keep it completely factual and don't
do what Hank Brennan did in his opening, which is
sort of like kind of get out of the time,

(01:13:51):
you know, sort of. It was just like you said, well,
Karen Reid hung up Jen McCabe or Carrie Roberts.

Speaker 6 (01:14:02):
She didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
I mean, there's a whole line Michael Camerano or Cole
called a Michael Camerono and Catherine Camerano got ghosted out
of that entire trial. It's my memory the second trial.
It's just very helpful. All those things are very helpful
with Karen Raid. You want to bring in every single
detail you can into that case because where innocence fraud stairs.

(01:14:23):
I don't even know if you can understand this, but
from looking at so many innocence fraud cases where innocence
fraud really only works in using broad strokes, so you
cannot fight it using broad strokes. You have to fight
it using every single even if they're boring, even if
it's not entertaining for the jury, every single detail matters,

(01:14:49):
and they have to be thinking like that, not like
we're going to bring in the Amazon California lawyer. And
because she has so much experience and because she won
one hundred and ten million dollar case, she's gonna be helpful.
I don't know if she's going to be all that helpful.
That's where I'm at with it. I don't mean to
be disparaging. I hope I'm wrong. I really do hope
I'm wrong. I hope she's amazing and I'm totally wrong,

(01:15:12):
and she wins a huge ton of money for the o'keefes.
But the way I see it right now, Karen Reid
has seven lawyers. She sold her story to the books,
she sold her story to movies, and all that is
coming out, all that propaganda is going to come out

(01:15:32):
before the civil case. And what do the keeps have?
They have this crappy Netflix thing that's going to be
a flop because it's going to do the same thing,
the same kind of thing, the same kind of rushing
over the minutia and the case for entertainment value, and
it's just going to be a Karen Reid is guilty

(01:15:53):
thing without the without Karen Reid's real behavior being explored,
and if they go down that same narrative that Canaron
Reid was so guilty, so jealous, guilty, so jealous, it's
not going to be helpful. It's just not helpful. It's
not it's not her. The guilt isn't enough. You have
to look at Karen Reid's behavior and see how it

(01:16:15):
fits in. And so when the jurors are looking at
this and going this doesn't feel through what the prosecution
is putting out because it really I don't think she
was jealous. I think all of it was to keep
John on the back foot and under control. Anyway, that's Karenry.

Speaker 7 (01:16:33):
Did you at all at that point in time did
you ever discuss getting a love nest together?

Speaker 5 (01:16:39):
Yes, but the way I have a your term is
just different than mine. I just wanted to take.

Speaker 6 (01:16:49):
Care of him.

Speaker 7 (01:16:49):
So in two thousand and two or two thousand and three,
even back then you were discussing with mister Durris the
idea that he was going to buy a love nest.

Speaker 5 (01:16:58):
For that then no, okay, not two thousand, So.

Speaker 7 (01:17:02):
Listen to my question if you can, ma'am. So I'm
not asking you about more current things. I'm saying back
in two thousand and two, two thousand and three, when
mister Durst was in custody, did you have discussions back then? No, ma'am,
You've got to let me finish the question.

Speaker 5 (01:17:17):
It was the same question. Sorry.

Speaker 7 (01:17:19):
Did you have discussions back then about you and mister
Durst getting a place to live together?

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
No?

Speaker 7 (01:17:31):
Do you know when those conversations first came up?

Speaker 5 (01:17:40):
Four or five years ago?

Speaker 7 (01:17:43):
Miss? Well, so are you four or five years ago?
Did they come up before mister Durst was arrested in
twenty fifteen.

Speaker 5 (01:17:53):
Let's see, let me just think I was sending him emails. Yeah,
before Yes, before he was arrested.

Speaker 8 (01:18:03):
I had sent emails because I wanted him first to
come live. It was a house next door to my house,
and I wanted him to move. So through the emails
you can see that I kept sending them homes that
were right next door to me because I have a
very large family. I thought living close and him being

(01:18:25):
taken care of is important.

Speaker 7 (01:18:27):
And by this time husband number three was now ex
husband number three?

Speaker 5 (01:18:31):
Correct? No, not at the time.

Speaker 7 (01:18:35):
When did he become ex husband number three?

Speaker 5 (01:18:37):
It legally not ex husband number three?

Speaker 7 (01:18:40):
Oh okay, when did the two of you separate?

Speaker 5 (01:18:44):
Or when did You're just having issues?

Speaker 7 (01:18:49):
I'm asking about these.

Speaker 5 (01:18:50):
Hes been very supportive, so I don't.

Speaker 7 (01:18:53):
Now, I'm not asking about the issues. I just want
to know when was it, whether formal or informal, that
you and husband number three ended up not having a
regular marital relationship.

Speaker 9 (01:19:05):
Well of injection relevance, your right before I guess you,
I'm trying to think my five years I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:19:21):
I don't actually remember five years ago.

Speaker 6 (01:19:23):
Maybe well, so wait, wait, I want.

Speaker 12 (01:19:25):
To instruct the witness to it to speak a little loud,
to write into the microphone, pause, and you can take
to take a moment before you answer and then say it.

Speaker 5 (01:19:34):
It might have been about five years ago.

Speaker 7 (01:19:37):
It was before mister Durris was arrested. Correct, Yes, okay,
and your honor with the courtet you just noticed that
he was arrested on March fourteen, twenty fifteen. Or we
can get maybe a stipulation is that in the court
of a file, yes, you're on her. That is I

(01:19:58):
can ask council counsel will you stipulate that that's the
date of arrest?

Speaker 6 (01:20:02):
Yes, thank you.

Speaker 10 (01:20:04):
All right, then I'll take traditional notice.

Speaker 7 (01:20:08):
Ma'am. Would you agree that as you sit up here
today testifying that you have a financial motivation to keep
yourself in good graces with Bob Durst.

Speaker 5 (01:20:24):
No, it's unconditional. It really is unconditional.

Speaker 7 (01:20:29):
It's not Okay, listen to my question on ma'am. I'm
not asking you what it is that's causing you to
do to testify, et cetera. I'm merely asking you.

Speaker 6 (01:20:44):
Because I think you've got a sub poena.

Speaker 10 (01:20:45):
Wait, I don't understand the objection. But she did actually
answer the question, mister Lewin. Yeah, she answered it, and
she gave an explat okation.

Speaker 5 (01:20:54):
Ma'am.

Speaker 7 (01:20:56):
How much money has Bob Durst given you over the years.

Speaker 5 (01:21:01):
Over the years, Yeah, three hundred thousand.

Speaker 7 (01:21:06):
In February of twenty fifteen, right before his arrest, he
sent you a check for thirty eight thousand dollars. Correct.

Speaker 15 (01:21:16):
I I'm going to actually say, believe it or not.

Speaker 5 (01:21:21):
I don't remember.

Speaker 7 (01:21:23):
If you testified previously or if you stated previously that
you had been sent thirty eight thousand dollars in February
of twenty fifteen. Would that be acurate if I had?

Speaker 5 (01:21:33):
Yeah, I just right now, don't really remember in.

Speaker 7 (01:21:37):
March, I mean, excuse me a second.

Speaker 10 (01:21:39):
I want to instruct the witness.

Speaker 12 (01:21:40):
She's actually continuing to speak and mumbling a little bit,
and I want you.

Speaker 10 (01:21:45):
To speak clearly and then and then to speak clearly.

Speaker 7 (01:21:50):
All right, thanks, next question, I apologize. I cannot hear
the I'm not I can't hear the mumbling. I just
when it stopped.

Speaker 10 (01:21:58):
But I do I know speaking. She's on the witness
stand under oath, and I want it or be on
the record, but think she says should be on the record.
And I know you didn't hear any I'm.

Speaker 7 (01:22:08):
Just telling you now, thank you, honor, ma'am. In March
of twenty fifteen, did Bob dur send you another check,
this time for three hundred thousand dollars? Yes, So when
you said he's given you three hundred thousand dollars, ma'am,
a moment ago, I said how much has he given
you in total? And you said three hundred thousand dollars, ma'am,

(01:22:29):
that's incorrect, right.

Speaker 8 (01:22:31):
Okay, I forgot about the thirty eight Well, probably for
my son.

Speaker 7 (01:22:37):
So yeah, well, let's continue, ma'am. He sent you one
check for three hundred thousand dollars. I'll trust me. I'm
gonna go through all of it. But he set you
one check in twenty fifteen, in March three hundred thousand.
He's continued to send you money up until very recently.
Is that correct?

Speaker 15 (01:22:54):
I have not received the check. Well, I have not
received the check. I am so, ma'am.

Speaker 7 (01:23:01):
So there's been no payments. I'll get there. There have
been no payments by mister Derris or his representatives in
the last two years regarding Honestly, I don't know.

Speaker 8 (01:23:10):
I gave some of the bills that I had that
were old bills that had to be paid, and I
gave them to my attorney.

Speaker 5 (01:23:19):
That's what I did. I gave them to my attorney
and I still get them and my bills are still
a little late.

Speaker 7 (01:23:25):
But ma'am, do you have an attorney who you just
give bills to and he pays them.

Speaker 8 (01:23:31):
He told me to hand over what I owe, and
some of it was paid and some of it wasn't.

Speaker 5 (01:23:36):
Man, I didn't ask. I didn't ask, Honestly.

Speaker 8 (01:23:40):
I didn't ask. I didn't see a check. I see
that it's still a couple of months late, some of it.
But I didn't ask, and I didn't see any money
passed through my hands, not a check, nothing since one
of you said twenty fifteen.

Speaker 7 (01:23:55):
So I want to go back, ma'am. I asked you
originally how much has he sent you your family in total?
So I'm gonna ask that again. I want you to
take a moment, and I want you to try to
think right now, in total, how much money has Bob Durst,
either directly or indirectly given to you or your family
members in total?

Speaker 5 (01:24:23):
I don't Maybe there was fifteen thousand more in the bills.

Speaker 4 (01:24:31):
That I have tried, two hundred thousand more, right, she's
what did we up to? Three hundred thousand? Try half
a million? Lady, try half a million?

Speaker 5 (01:24:43):
He didn't. I really don't know exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:24:46):
I mean, I don't. I mean, I'm sure it made
her life easier. But how do you live with yourself
when you take a murderer half a million dollars? I mean,
how do you live with yourself? I don't get how

(01:25:06):
any of these creators live with themselves, grifting off guilty
killers and making propaganda for guilty killers, how they live
with themselves. I don't know what morally vapid human beings
get a job, do something else, but don't grift off

(01:25:28):
of guilty killers. And it's channels that the channels that
say they're pro victim and blah blah blah. You will
always find something something on there pushing some murderer another's innocence,
usually after the fact, after it's gone through our chord
system and have been found guilty, and then the appeals

(01:25:55):
courts look at it, found nothing there, nothing wrong with
the trial, well represented, or even when like the West
Memphis three where they plead guilty again via Alpha, they'll
still I just don't understand, don't I don't understand it.

(01:26:18):
But there's like some idea in true crime that you
can't look like you have to take either one or
two killers. You have to advocate for one or two
killers psychopathic murderers in order to look fair and balanced.
Really like, really like who created that? Who created that idea?

(01:26:41):
I'm not grifting for any killer. Sorry, I couldn't live
with no, no, no, thank you? Who live with myself
so revolting.

Speaker 7 (01:26:54):
At the time that mister Durst sent you that three
hundred thousand dollars check. He told you he was going
to send that to you in advance of his arrest.

Speaker 8 (01:27:03):
Correct, I really don't remember, honestly, I don't remember.

Speaker 6 (01:27:13):
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:27:15):
I mean, do you think people do you think Robert
Durst fans are buying this stuff? Do you think they're
buying her weird childlike artwork? That looks like she spent
two minutes on what's an aco art card? What does
that mean? Is that like like a like what we

(01:27:35):
used to like a three x five card or something.
They're signed on the back like it just is that
what it is? Or is it an actual card to
send to people? Look at the dis is there a
description here? And ten percent of the sales go to

(01:27:58):
the ASPCA and the rest of the ninety percent goes
to a murderer groupee. She says she's in New York,
not New Jersey. Oh, maybe I'm wrong about that. Maybe
she's in upstate New York or around New York. She's
not in the city. I know that she's outside the city,
So maybe I was wrong. It wasn't New Jersey. It's

(01:28:18):
somewhere in New York. She says, Hi, my name is
Susi Giordano. I'm an artist in New York and a
graduate from Pratt in stut. I was a high school
art teacher in New York before opening my own studio.
My studio was named the Art Cottage of New York,
but after COVID, I did close shop. So it doesn't
sound like she was an art teacher when she testified here.

(01:28:40):
But you can still see the studio on Facebook if interested.
I outside a gift shop and have been listing items
each day. I was fortunate enough to study with the
famous William Dukounan's student, Pat Pazlof and I'm grateful that
my art traveled to be shown in galleries. Pat pazzle
Offs art was acquired by MoMA in New York City.

(01:29:05):
That Pazzlop nominated me for an award, and I did
become the recipient of that award, the CSI Art Foundation Award.
I am as extremely grateful that she chose me as
our art student, and she was an amazing mentor what
did her art look like? That's what I wonder.

Speaker 6 (01:29:26):
God.

Speaker 4 (01:29:27):
Right, if you're just tuning in, we're watching amazing direct
examination to Robert Dur's trial. Maybe we'll finish this up
tomorrow morning, but I'll get to the end at least
the first half. They are really like rich and fun
to watch. Maybe tomorrow morning with my coffee, maybe we'll

(01:29:48):
watch the rest of it.

Speaker 5 (01:29:51):
We didn't know he was getting arrested either, to be
honest with you.

Speaker 4 (01:29:54):
I mean, we'll watch a little bit more tonight. We'll
finish this up. But it gets really good with the
case gets it just gets better and better. But it
kind of builds. He can't really just go to the end.
Kind of have to let it build. They're very they're
very expertly crafted, these direct examinations, and they're not as
much fun if you just sort of like go into

(01:30:16):
the middle of it. You kind of have to. It
really is like a novel, kind of k very detailed novel.

Speaker 5 (01:30:25):
Yeah, so Silandro Jireki called me. Other than that, I
didn't know. He said he was going to send me something.

Speaker 7 (01:30:33):
Okay, So listen to my question, man, that's what he said.
I'm not asking you whether he knew he was going
to be arrested. I'm asking you, prior to his arrest
on March fourteen, twenty fifteen, you were aware that he
was going to be sending you a large check. Correct,

(01:30:55):
a check.

Speaker 5 (01:30:56):
I didn't know the amount, that's it.

Speaker 7 (01:30:58):
I didn't And ma'am, when you were interviewed on March fifteenth,
twenty fifteen. I'm going to get to this in a moment,
But on that date, investigator Joe Viscera from the New
York State Police showed up at your house with no
notice to collect what are known as the Giordano boxes.
Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (01:31:19):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (01:31:20):
And I'm going to go into that in more detail,
But I want to ask you. Did you at any
point mention to Investigator Bessera on the fifteenth when he
talked When he talked to you, hey, by the way,
I'm supposed to be getting a check from Bob. You
didn't tell him that, did you? No?

Speaker 5 (01:31:38):
Did he ever ask me?

Speaker 7 (01:31:39):
I don't, Well he was? You agree he on the sixteenth,
he came back and reinterviewed you again the next day. Correct?

Speaker 5 (01:31:49):
Okay?

Speaker 7 (01:31:50):
Would you agree that you did not mention to Investigator
Bessera the next day that mister Durst had sent.

Speaker 15 (01:31:55):
You No, no, no, no.

Speaker 5 (01:32:00):
Why would I say something? Well?

Speaker 7 (01:32:03):
You agree that investigator with Sarah and Special Agent Eric
Perry from the FBI that they were asking you questions
about your contacts with mister Durst. Correct, correct, ma'am. Are
you telling us that it was a pure accident, that

(01:32:24):
you did not intentionally failed to mention this check that
was coming? Is that your testimony?

Speaker 6 (01:32:33):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (01:32:34):
I don't. I didn't do anything purposely.

Speaker 6 (01:32:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:32:39):
Is that what you mean?

Speaker 8 (01:32:39):
I think purposely not say, oh, by the way, I'm
getting a check.

Speaker 7 (01:32:45):
I didn't, ma'am. Do you recall, ma'am, being asked about
the check two days later, on March eighteen, twenty fifteen,
by Special Agent Eric Perry, You remember him from the FBI.
Do you recall him asking you why you didn't tell

(01:33:08):
Joe Becerra the other day about the UH strike that
Do you recall being asked during the March eighteen, twenty
fifteen interview with Special Agent Parry? Do you recall you

(01:33:30):
mentioning at all anything again about that check.

Speaker 6 (01:33:36):
You're objection I have. He's gonna refresh your recollection, So
did you show her what he's referring to?

Speaker 7 (01:33:48):
Maah, To the best of your memory, you didn't mention
anything about if.

Speaker 8 (01:33:52):
He no, I didn't, and wouldn't you said anything about money?

Speaker 7 (01:33:56):
And would it be your testimony that if you didn't mention,
it was an accident, it was not intentional projection.

Speaker 6 (01:34:02):
The States are testing all you can explain.

Speaker 8 (01:34:04):
Yourself if anybody would have asked me about I didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:34:09):
Withhold any information purposely. Everyone asked me about the boxes.
Those were the answers I that was that was it?

Speaker 8 (01:34:19):
No one ever asked me it wasn't withholding information, ma'am?

Speaker 7 (01:34:24):
Have you have you?

Speaker 6 (01:34:25):
Have?

Speaker 7 (01:34:25):
You at times stated when asked about large sums of
money that you had for mister Durst, that you were
merely quote, holding money for him.

Speaker 8 (01:34:35):
I wanted I wanted to put money down on a
piece of property.

Speaker 15 (01:34:40):
That that was it I wanted. I I thought.

Speaker 5 (01:34:44):
It would have been a good idea for him to
move up to the Hudson.

Speaker 8 (01:34:47):
Valley and I would send him, like I said, houses
or property, and and that's.

Speaker 5 (01:34:56):
What was my plan.

Speaker 7 (01:34:57):
So what was your understanding, ma'am? But what that three
hundred thousand dollars was supposed to be used for?

Speaker 5 (01:35:04):
Well it was.

Speaker 8 (01:35:07):
Bob couldn't understand how expensive college loans were, and it
was exactly twelve point seventy five in interest, and at
the time he said, why don't you pay the boys'
school because it was almost one hundred thousand dollars at
least one hundred thousand dollars in student loans. And then
Tommy was moving to Louisiana and told me to pay lsu.

Speaker 5 (01:35:32):
Whatever apartment he needed, pay up my bills, and start fresh.

Speaker 7 (01:35:40):
So, ma'am, I want to understand this because it sounds
like you're saying two different things. Was the money for
you to put down for a house for mister Durst
man life, ma'am, let me finish, or was it money
that you were supposed to use for you and your
family as you saw fit.

Speaker 5 (01:36:00):
It was for both. It was a lot of money,
so it was for different things.

Speaker 7 (01:36:06):
And I assume then, since not all of it was
supposed to be for you, that you put it into
an account that mister Durst would have had access to.

Speaker 5 (01:36:19):
It wasn't withholding it.

Speaker 8 (01:36:20):
He didn't have access to the account, but if he
wanted it, I had it. I wrote every single thing
down where the money went or always I didn't see.

Speaker 7 (01:36:33):
You took this money and you put it into your
personal account where you could spend it as you wished.
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (01:36:40):
Trust hum, some of that money was supposed to be alone.
Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (01:36:47):
Yes, I wanted to make it alone.

Speaker 7 (01:36:50):
It's been six years. How much of that three hundred
thousand have you paid back?

Speaker 5 (01:36:57):
Didn't ask me for anything back?

Speaker 7 (01:37:00):
Well, ma'am, you just told me it was supposed to
be alone, and now you're saying that he didn't ask
for anything back. Was it supposed to be alone? Was
supposed to be a gift.

Speaker 8 (01:37:11):
He wanted it as a gift, and I told him
that I think I should have the boys pay their
share or a responsibility.

Speaker 7 (01:37:19):
So, ma'am, let me ask you said that a moment
ago you said it was for you to start your
life over. So I call that.

Speaker 8 (01:37:25):
Testimony, right, And I said we had just different opinions.
He really didn't worry about me giving anything back, and
I just felt that if the boys had to use
it to pay, they should still give something, just being responsible.

Speaker 7 (01:37:41):
So let me repeat myself. How much of the money
that three hundred thousand that you used or your boys
use has been paid back to mister Durst.

Speaker 8 (01:37:52):
I sent, I think the two checks that week, and
he was arrested and told me not to send anything anywhere.

Speaker 6 (01:38:00):
Ma'am.

Speaker 7 (01:38:00):
Those two checks were for a total of two thousand dollars.
Is that right?

Speaker 5 (01:38:04):
Yes, it's a thousands, supposed to be one thousand a week.

Speaker 7 (01:38:06):
And then yeah, so in six years, you made an
effort within a week after receiving the check to pay
back two thousand dollars, which was actually not paid back,
and then since then zero is that correct?

Speaker 6 (01:38:21):
Right? And mis characterizes her touched tomony, She said that
he told you, But.

Speaker 7 (01:38:26):
I'm gonna ask. I'm trying not to speaking objections, but
mister Chesnoff, everyone has been a speaking objection.

Speaker 12 (01:38:32):
So no, they're just sort of wrong with the grounds
whether he's the grounds in the objection.

Speaker 7 (01:38:42):
So, ma'am, did you understand my question? Let me just
ask it again to save time here. So in six.

Speaker 4 (01:38:49):
Years, we've got the sign, the sign's coming in and
you know that Lewin's going in for the kill when
he starts. When you start saying, ma'am, a lot.

Speaker 7 (01:39:00):
There has been zero actually paid back? Is that right?

Speaker 5 (01:39:06):
It was the two checks, and that was that those.

Speaker 7 (01:39:10):
Two checks were never cashed. Correct, No, they were cashed. Okay,
so there have been and those are from your sons,
is that right? Yeah, So your son's paid back one
thousand dollars two thousand dollars total, and you paid back nothing,
Is that right? Yes, you were asked about this? Is

(01:39:32):
that cool?

Speaker 4 (01:39:34):
What's going on with their eyes? She does look a
little weird here. Anybody want to take a guess as
to what she's.

Speaker 7 (01:39:42):
On wrecked during your two thousand and seventeen testimony, Is
that right?

Speaker 5 (01:39:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:39:52):
Some kind of maybe venzas, pink killers, something I don't know, odd, right.
She gets totally flipped out at the end of this
and says, I can't come back another day. I can't
get my medication. I only brought medication for one night.
It didn't make sense.

Speaker 7 (01:40:13):
And at the time you were asked what the total
amount that you've been given was, do you recall that
you said that it was three hundred and fifty thousand dollars?

Speaker 5 (01:40:26):
Yes, yes, after we just did the math now, so yes.

Speaker 7 (01:40:30):
Well, my question to you would be, mam, if you
remember specifically there was a three hundred thousand dollars check.
Are you telling this jury that when I first asked
you that question, you only remembered one check that Bob
Dirst had ever given you that three hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 8 (01:40:46):
Yes, I just until you reminded me I said.

Speaker 5 (01:40:49):
I didn't remember.

Speaker 4 (01:40:52):
Somehow she forgot three hundred fifty thousand dollars something like that.
Isn't that more? Aren't we like six hundred and fifty
thousand dollars? More than half a million? I'm losing track
here of all the money she got. Yeah, so Tater says,
pills dolls, value of the dolls? God, I get off, God,

(01:41:17):
I get off. I have to get off of this
witness stand.

Speaker 8 (01:41:27):
And if you said that's what it was, I honestly
I don't remember.

Speaker 5 (01:41:31):
But I'm sure you know that I'm agreeing with you.

Speaker 7 (01:41:34):
And ma'am, when I asked you that question, you understood
that the bills that you've been giving to your lawyer,
some of which have been paid, you understand that that
is being paid by mister Durst or his associates.

Speaker 5 (01:41:47):
Correct, I assumed? Well okay?

Speaker 7 (01:41:52):
So I well, ma'am, okay, So why is it that
you decided to give checks to your lawyer? What was
your lawyer supposed to do with those you actually were
giving him? I'm sorry, my mistake.

Speaker 10 (01:42:04):
Excuse me.

Speaker 7 (01:42:05):
What was your lawyer supposed to do with the bills
that you were giving Tom?

Speaker 8 (01:42:09):
He just told me not to stress just to give
him the things that were very very late and how
to be taken care of.

Speaker 7 (01:42:16):
And was your understanding, ma'am, that your lawyer was paying those.

Speaker 4 (01:42:21):
It must be really nice to just hand over everything
to Robert Durres's lawyer. Can I do that? Can I
hand over my electric bill, my gas bill, my rent,
me my rent paid murderer lawyer. I couldn't live with
myself that way, but it must be nice to just

(01:42:43):
hand over all your bills. Do it?

Speaker 8 (01:42:46):
So?

Speaker 4 (01:42:46):
I want to have them pay them? Oh, my lord,
if they're not a murderer, they're not a murderer. Otherwise
I would have a little conscience problem with my conscience,
not her bills himself.

Speaker 8 (01:43:03):
Never even I never asked him where it came from,
who wrote a check?

Speaker 5 (01:43:07):
I didn't see anything. I didn't ask, ma'am.

Speaker 7 (01:43:09):
So you're telling this jury that you have a lawyer
that's being paid for by mister Durst. That lawyer is
telling you just give me these bills, And you're saying
you had no idea that mister Durst is behind PEP.

Speaker 8 (01:43:23):
I could assume anything, but I didn't see anything.

Speaker 5 (01:43:26):
Like I said, I didn't ask.

Speaker 7 (01:43:28):
It was so ma'am. So when you say you could assume,
is it fair to say that it was your belief
although you didn't see any proof, it was your belief
that you were giving those bills to your lawyer to
pass on to mister Durst and his representatives to be paid.
Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (01:43:46):
I guess I don't. I'm okay.

Speaker 7 (01:43:49):
Well, did you ever have any discussions with mister Durst
while he was in jail about this exact issue? Yes?
And did mister Durst tell you on September thirty of
two thousand sixteen that he had told his lawyers to
give you as much money as you wanted to do

(01:44:10):
whatever you wanted.

Speaker 5 (01:44:12):
Do you recall that I don't remember. I don't remember.

Speaker 7 (01:44:17):
Its mark.

Speaker 10 (01:44:18):
Let's uh, when will we take our break?

Speaker 7 (01:44:20):
Can I just play this one CLIPKA, people's next order?

Speaker 13 (01:44:25):
Mister Milius right the two seven People's STEWO seven She's
zero seventy one.

Speaker 7 (01:44:34):
This is s September twenty, two thousand sixteen.

Speaker 6 (01:44:37):
Jail call.

Speaker 3 (01:44:40):
It super Yeah, all right, I know I wanted to
do that, have very much money to do whatever it is.

Speaker 6 (01:44:53):
You wanted to tell.

Speaker 3 (01:44:58):
In terms of your wife, oh.

Speaker 7 (01:45:04):
I can ask her about it.

Speaker 10 (01:45:05):
After the breakthrough, I thank you. In two of seven,
A will lead that.

Speaker 4 (01:45:09):
Okay, we'll return to this another. We'll hang out and
watch the rest of this, because it really does get good.
I thought it was. It does starting to get really good,
is what I excuse me? What I mean? Yeah, she's
a pretrofessional, Doris. You don't even know. You don't even know.
It gets more wild, It gets more wild as it

(01:45:31):
goes on, so it kind of I mean, just all
of his examinations are really crafted, so you learn a
little bit about someone a little bit. By the end there,
their credibility is just totally totally ruined, and whatever help
that they could have been to the defense is gone.

(01:45:52):
So it's a there for me. They're really fun to watch,
such a well crafted, wall thought out examination, direct examination,
not even across so they can't even do as much,
no leaning questions, et cetera. But yeah, she gets well wait, actually,

(01:46:18):
let's see. I think it's just the end of here.
I think I just cut it off. Let's see her
just complain about before we go at the pills. Hold on,
one second, we gotta I don't have my medication. This
is where she complains right here, hold on one second,
so keep listening. Lewin didn't catch this, but I did. Oh,

(01:46:41):
this is just a break. I think it's at the
end of the day. We'll see tomorrow. Maybe maybe I'll
come back tomorrow. Where she's complaining, she's like like, we're
gonna need you tomorrow, and she's like, I can't. I
can't go tomorrow. I don't have my pills, can't come back.

Speaker 10 (01:47:00):
Three twenty.

Speaker 12 (01:47:01):
Do not converse among yourselves with anyone else on any
subject connected with this case. Do not Formart's Chambers tuition
of the testimony I follow in some chest not if
I want to overrule that, And that's under Evidence Code
three twenty.

Speaker 10 (01:47:19):
The court controls the order of proof. Court regulates the proof.
But go ahead, but your you may you may make a.

Speaker 1 (01:47:25):
Up to go.

Speaker 6 (01:47:26):
Your honor quite sub safely stated our issue with it.

Speaker 11 (01:47:30):
And the court did indicate that if they're not able
to show that they.

Speaker 6 (01:47:34):
Were supposed to be able to impeach, that the court
would strike the testimony.

Speaker 10 (01:47:38):
That's right, it would strike the testimony already.

Speaker 12 (01:47:41):
Though there's been testimony about holding money for mister Durst
for some and I'm seeing this as possibly connected to
some other evidence of holding holding money so that one
cannot be a fugitive.

Speaker 10 (01:47:54):
But I don't know that's where you go on. Should
mister Lewin about mister.

Speaker 7 (01:47:59):
Durst's Are that's going to be separate monies? But yes,
this all is going to combine. At the end of this,
we're going to be able to show the wins will
be thoroughly and completely.

Speaker 10 (01:48:08):
Paged, but I will so if that's all there is, we'll.

Speaker 12 (01:48:11):
We've heard so far, of course I would write, thank
you ure And to the point that should be made
your owner is none of this three.

Speaker 6 (01:48:19):
Hundred thousand dollars or three unty thirty eight thousand dollars
has anything to do with any.

Speaker 4 (01:48:23):
Effort to escape right, which is a good point. Which
is a good point. So that's David Cheeshanoff who lew
and you can just tell just has a real from
my interviews and just from his attitude towards himcount record,
they hate each other. They fought through this whole trial. Uh, Dick,
you Garran old Texas lawyer has been Durst lawyer since

(01:48:44):
the beginning. Chesnoff's from Vegas. Dick du Garon works I
mean works out of I don't know if he's from
I don't think he's actually from Vegas, but he works
out of Vegas. Better put Victor Garan Texas old Texas lawyer.
He did really well with Morris Black, got Durst off

(01:49:05):
an impossible case. Morris Black, I mean, I don't that
was some black magic he did on the jury in
that case. And one of those jurors became another accomplice
that helped and him and his wife helped Robert Durst
again evade the law. You can see that. It's a
little piece of the story. I didn't know till the
Jink's part too. I just didn't know it. So most

(01:49:29):
of everything I learned about this case I learned just
from watching the Jinks and watching the entire trial was wild.
So we'll come back and watch. We'll watch the rest
of I don't know, maybe tomorrow morning, I don't know.
Just like a hangout, I don't know, just having some

(01:49:50):
fun on this channel. Very casual, very casual, a very
casual hangout. I wanted to talk about this story. You know.
My point is that all these killers do very little,
that they have an incredible amount of help from other people.
You ever heard the Devil's advocate or the Devil's helper.

(01:50:15):
That is true and true crime. All these people, these
psychopathic murderers that I talk about on this channel, always
get an incredible amount of help from other people. And
it's not always that they're rich. Psychopaths are incredibly charismatic,
and they attract like minded people who are also psychopaths,

(01:50:39):
who want excitement, want to break the law. They invite
into their lives, people with personality disorders of all types,
help them and support them and work to free them,
and don't care how they're victimizing the family. Revictimizing the family.

(01:51:00):
Let's say, it's amazing. And what's also amazing is how
similar all these personality types are. Some are a little smarter.
Durst was one of the smarter killers, but they just
don't care. You know, they're not smart enough to fully

(01:51:23):
cover up their tracks. They don't care. They do what
they do because they want to. I mean, it's not
there's no real good reason to kill. I mean, all
this stuff about getting in the mind of a killer,
it's a part of true crime. I really loathe people
kill because they want to. I mean, it's not some

(01:51:47):
deep I don't know I find that. I mean, if
we're going to talk about the devil's helper. I find
that so often people in the mental health field become
the devil's helper in these cases and minimize the real
dark qualities of these personalities that we talk about. All right,

(01:52:09):
that's what I have to say. Enjoy Griftkey. I don't
think she's making much money. I wonder who's buying these
cards for what three dollars each? But she's still grifting
off of Durst name. And the Jinx is popular, but
not this particular. It was a really rare group of
people that actually watch this trial. It's a very long

(01:52:32):
trial as you need a lot of a long, slow
moving trial. Fascinating trial, but slow moving with one jaw
dropper after the next. But it's a certain personality type
that watched the Durst trial and a lot of people didn't.
The Jinx is more popular than the Durst than Robert

(01:52:54):
Durst's trial. Like the things he did outside of court
I think got more attention than actually actual court cases themselves.
Although Morris Black was pretty watched. I think it was
people can believe the verdict on that that he got away.
I mean he admitted to killing a man and dismembering

(01:53:16):
him and they were like, no props, think he got
just like some kind of probation and time served for that.
It was ridiculous. All right, thanks so much for listening.
Please support the channel. I have some thank you for
coming up tomorrow. Maybe we'll return to something maybe more serious,

(01:53:37):
but there might be you might do like another hangout
just to touch base and then maybe a more serious
prepare like you know, go over some maybe return to
Karen Reid, maybe some other case. I don't know, do
something else tomorrow, but we might have another hangout where

(01:53:57):
we watched that. I'd love to watch the end of
this with you guys. Thanks so much for listening. I'll
do thank you tomorrow at six. But great way to
support the channel. It's always Patreon. Buy me a coffee, Venmo,
please share. Thank you to everyone who shared my episodes.
I really appreciate it. Thank you for sharing my shorts.

(01:54:21):
I'm not a platform, I don't have a PR agency,
so I appreciate everyone who shares my work. Have a
great night everyone, I'll see you tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:54:45):
My check.

Speaker 1 (01:54:46):
Roberta strides through the static case True Crime got Them
Way the Shadows later place for It's to fold on
a spotlight beams, fact focus, queen busting propaganda schemes, glass shadow,
lies that goes through the streets, standing for victims, giving voice,
that meats and hyc Poll's truth sharpest Knight refer to explosive.

Speaker 2 (01:55:06):
She's the anti fried light.

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
Partast warrior, dissecting Satan's defense, twisted innocence claims, breaking free sense.
Gotham's truth Seeker cuts clean with the blade facts in
the forefront. No justice gets swayed. Cold facts drip heavy
real salt, gun furls, cracking cases open like oysters with pearls,
innocence gimmicks, crumpled, the dust in the wind for victims,

(01:55:40):
Her creed justice till the end, headphones blazing, She drops
heavy artillery. Now it just twisted meat, blunt objects, civility.
Roberta God receipts that unraveled deploy exposing the lies, these

(01:56:04):
frauds that just deploy glass shadow lies that goes through
the streets, standard for victims, given voice, standing meats and
ye post true shoppers Night Roberta exposes used the anti
fraud light

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Woman Who Sent Robert Durst Money on the Run Still Grifting Off His Murders

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