Secrets To Connecting With Gen Z For Restaurant Growth

🫶 Subscribe NOW - Unlock a world of knowledge, innovation, and growth from the largest podcast network in food service! - https://www.savor.fm/

The Rock My Restaurant Podcast, hosted by Shelly Rupel and Paul Barron, explores Web3 integration in loyalty programs with guest Steve Kaczynski. They discuss how blockchain, cryptocurrencies, and NFTs are revolutionizing customer rewards, citing Boba Guys' successful NFT-based membership program as a case study. The episode draws parallels between gaming and loyalty programs, explores Web3 payment technologies, and examines how brands can leverage their IP in the Web3 space. The hosts offer practical advice for businesses looking to implement Web3 loyalty programs.

📈 Learn More ~  Restaurant Power Index featuring the top 50 brands' performance in consumer sentiment based on 12 performance markers in food, service, and overall brand consumer sentiment. The RPI features historical and current sentiment analysis for key brands based on the overall market sentiment data. Subscribe for weekly reports on the top brands in the restaurant industry. https://www.savor.fm/restaurant-power-index

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Turn of the volume and subscribe nowto Rock My Restaurant, the podcast setting
your brand on fire for you.Come into you live every week branding,
marketing, innovative tech, don't getleft behind. The future is now all

(00:21):
right, So welcome back here toRock My Restaurant. My name is Paul
Baron, and today is going tobe a special episode because with me,
I've got a brand new, perfectshiny guest hosts, and that of course
is Shelley Rupele coming in from Devour. Shelley, You're going to be You're
gonna be writing a shotgun here fora little while. I like it.

(00:42):
I am Shotgun. It was timelet's, you know, jump in co
host with you. And it's greatto be here. So I look forward
to the rest of this year withRock My Restaurant. Well, you know,
and for our listeners and our viewers, I want to make sure you
guys are aware. You know thisshow, Yes, it is branding and
marketing, but it is really forwardon next generation technology, Web three,

(01:03):
NFTs, all of that. Devour, of course is our partner on this
show, and it's the perfect matchup. When you know, when I heard
from your team saying that you'd beavailable for the podcast, which we were
wanting at the very beginning. SoI'm glad that you finally had the time
to do this because I think thisis the thing for most restaurant operators.

(01:23):
They don't really understand this, soit is an education process. It takes
time to really get their head aroundthis. So I think it's good you
know that you'll be in here reallyanswering a lot of questions. So,
anyway, what's up with Devour?What's going on? Are you traveling much
right now? Oh, there's somuch going on. I think we were
on the road constantly for three tofour months. We're finally we've slowed down

(01:47):
just a little bit here. We'vegot a little bit of a break before
Vcon and then Prosper in August,which is a great time because we've just
launched you know, a lot oflocations in Devour or Go, as well
as our partnership with Coinbase and alot of other things that we're working on
rolling out this summer. So perfecttime also for us to be talking about
Web three marketing with no doubt restaurants, Yeah, no doubt. Well this

(02:13):
is gonna be a good one todaybecause we've got a special guest, and
you know we're gonna be talking alot about kind of the evolution of where
restaurants are going, especially from astandpoint of loyalty. So joining us today
is going to be mister Steve Kazenski. He of course is been around the
industry from the NFT and Web threespace, but he's an author and Web
three, NFT storyteller and builder.So it's going to be a great conversation.

(02:37):
Let's get him in on the showhere and just get started. Hey,
Steve, how's it going good?How y'all doing excellent? Excellent?
All right, Steve, We're gonnawe're gonna just jump right into it.
I want to learn a little bitabout what you are doing right now and
kind of what was it that gotyou moving in the Web three NFT space.

(02:57):
Yeah, there's sort of a I'lltry to do the TLDR on the
Web three space. Because I've alwaysbeen a tech nerd since day one.
So I'm forty one years old.When I was in middle school, so
mid nineties, i was coding websiteson the Internet. I had teachers and
adults tell me that's a cute hobby, but you need to figure out what
you're gonna do when you grow up, and so I kind of left that
to the side. And then Iwas early to social media. I was

(03:20):
early to Facebook, early to Xand again people told me, you know
Twitter at the time, Hey,nobody cares for you, Dave for breakfast.
But I saw this real time mediapower when the plane landed on the
Hudson and the first reports scene fromTwitter or you know, on Facebook.
The first friend who added me wasa friend I hadn't seen in twenty years
and realizing those things. But again, kind of listen to people same story.
Won't go down the rabbit hole.But you know, crypto in sort

(03:42):
of twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,I actually waitboarded for my poor team when
I was at a Fortune five hundredsort of why I thought ethereum had this
ability to build businesses like I explainedit was like businesses on bitcoin to people.
Of course, Bitcoin didn't have thebest reputation at the time, so
didn't land super well and when itcrashed I left out. So in twenty
twenty twenty twenty one timeframe, Idiscovered NFTs through NBA top Shot, which

(04:06):
is not built on Ethereum. Butwhen I googled what an NFT was,
I learned pretty quickly, Oh mygod, this is sort of the thing,
sort of an NFT built on thething, the blockchain, built on
the thing, the Internet that I'vebeen obsessed with forever, and so decided
to learn everything I could about it. Nine months later I co authored the
first Harvard Business Review article about NFTs. Three months later I quit a very

(04:29):
nice corporate job at Nesley. Ispent time at Nestle at progressive and leadership
positions and communications and marketing. Quitthat to go full time Web three And
fortunately the parachute came out when Ijumped out of the plane, and I've
you know, done consulting work.I worked with Starbucks for a period of
time on their program, working withDevour right now and doing consulting there and
do a variety of things, hostmy own show and sort of create content

(04:49):
and do consulting across the space.So okay, so this is this is
a process. I think that alot of technology has gone through, you
know, really the birth of theiPhone in two thousand and seven, we
saw such a ramp it up takeon social media. A lot of brands
in that era, meaning restaurant brands. I think in retail brands to a

(05:12):
certain extent, they were a bithesitant in moving into social media. I
remember there was a time in therestaurant space where you couldn't take an Instagram
photo. At that time, itwas four square, and you know,
you were checking in and you know, I don't know, Shelley, were
you ever a mayor anywhere? Iwas not, but I know where you're

(05:36):
what you're referring to. Yeah,it's crazy. It was. I thought
it was such a cool thing tobecome a mayor of a restaurant, you
know location. I was like,oh, I have reached the pinnacle of
success. But the point I'm getting, as Steve is the adoption curve really
took a while for restaurant brands tokind of click on social. Do you

(05:58):
think that's kind of the same thingthat's happening right now on web three?
Oh? Absolutely. That's the thingabout the history of tech is that I
constantly tell people who are in podcastsand x spaces and things I do,
is that the tax of being early, as everyone thinks you're crazy, the
advantage of being early is guess whatyou get to be right in about ten
years and you know, I thinkyou saw it. There are people who
said video games were a fad.You can find it. There are people

(06:20):
who said the Internet was a fad. You can find it being a passing
fad as people left because of techand cost barriers. That sounds awful familiar
to where we're at now. Andthen social media, by the way,
mayor of our local pot belly atthe old work that I used to do.
But yeah, I mean even socialmedia. I remember when I started
at Progressive in twenty twelve, beforeI was like leading anything there and I

(06:42):
was just a you know, publicrelations representative level two. And the way
the social media practice effectively got startedis our comms director. And this is
not that long ago. Twenty twelvewas a blink and so they pointed over
to somebody and said, who onmy PR team is on Facebook? You're
a new social media person. Flashfour. They have a department they triage
complaints through there. And you know, obviously working at you know, Nestli,

(07:04):
I saw sorts of food brands whoengage in different way de giorno who
gets to be the whimsical challenger andall the different personalities, And so I
think we're on that exact same thingwhere this spaces particularly Web three was so
overly financialized and people don't understand it. And I think because of that,
we had a lot of people whowere skeptical and just like anything else,

(07:25):
people say, well, I don'taccept this, or this is weird.
Isn't this a big scam? Andyou know it takes time, education and
use cases, but that adoption curvewe're already starting to see go up.
We're seeing more companies experiment with it. We're seeing traditional sort of businesses experiment
with it, and more than that, even honestly seeing the regulation that's going
on, I get a lot ofa lot of pushback in our industry when

(07:46):
I say that. I think regulationand laws are a good thing, but
I think that creates a sandbox forwhich restaurants and other brands can sort of
start to play well. I mean, there's a lot to unwrapped there.
I think the situation now with regulationnow, with Chevron efference changing here just
here recently, is probably going toopen up the pipeline in terms of new
innovation for Web three, especially forthe NFT category. So I don't know,

(08:11):
Shelley, when you're when when you'reworking because you get a chance to
work with a lot of restaurant leaders, and what are you finding in terms
of that adoption cycle. I knowthat you know, we have the ones
we know that get it and thatunderstand it. We can think of,
you know, wowbow. Our friendJeff Alexander is kind of the poster child
of it. But he's been anearly adopter on many things. You know,

(08:35):
he was an early adopter on socialan early adopter on mobile. What
do you think about how fast thisindustry can pick this up. I think
we're definitely still a tip of thespear, right, We're early on.
I though, even in the lasttwo years, have seen this from the
beginning of you know, I don'tknow about what you're what you're what you're

(08:58):
talking about too, to get whenwe talk about the power of the technology
itself and how it can change frompaper coupons, digital coupons to what is
possible, ies have started to lightup a lot more conversation. They know
they're early on from a market alonger term marketing plan. So I think

(09:18):
we're in that same cycle that youdescribed, Paul with social media quite a
bit. So this web two toweb three move, you know, because
I think sometimes people get caught inthe confusion of a Web two to Web
three transition that some of these companiesare really embarking on. We've been doing
a study over on PBN and it'son Sony, And of course Sony was

(09:43):
big news this week was they launchedtheir whole platform for exchange trading. They're
going to launch basically in exchange.They're going to become a coinbase, but
they also had the function of integratinginto kind of a bank app, so
they were going to have a bank. They've already integrated NFTs into many of
their entertainment ip Ghostbusters was their firstone. The interesting since is the Japanese

(10:07):
government made away with THEE as anational strategy. We already disclose the information
to make a brooch chain together withSony, which includes a nother management service
and the index service and the workmanagement, and we are focusing on entertainment
right now. And we created ajoint venture called the stud Sony into a
communication lab. We combine Sony anda lab company gaming music picture. They

(10:35):
have a bank, they have acar, they have an insurance and a
lot in a global skate. Thiscan be one of the biggest projects,
uh, and I'm trying to makeit happen within coming months. So we're
seeing major companies starting to take thisstep. Now, most of it has
been around brand IP. Any companythat is really rich in IP has the

(10:58):
capacity to kind of move to digitalquickly. Steve when you look at that,
because the restaurant industry, I feellike is like this is the holy
ground for IP. There's so muchof it out there. In terms of
brands. What do you find whenyou're talking with different brands. I know
you've worked with a handful of them, is this something they truly recognize and

(11:20):
extending the four walls in trying togo into the web three side of this.
Yeah, they're starting to, whichhas been really fun. What I
found in a lot of times isthere is this barrier in the vernacular we
use and how we explain it.Because what I found almost across the board,
without a shadow of a doubt,is that when I explain to someone
so not when I go When Igo in and talk to a company,

(11:43):
they know I'm telling on myself.I wrote a book about NFTs. They
know what I'm there to talk about. But when I'm talking to individual brands
and companies a lot of times andthey don't know what I'm there to do,
or I'm talking to a friend andfamily member. I'll explain what NFTs
do. I explain the possibilities ofthe ownership, the data, the information,
the ligne in sentence structures, andeverybody, to a person says that

(12:05):
sounds awesome, we should do it. And then when I tell them it's
NFTs or it's tied to the blockchain, the skepticism goes up and people start
to wonder about it. And soI think, to your point, like
people are opening their minds because they'restarting to realize, okay, it's an
opportunity. And then once it's sortof like any other set of dominoes,
I think, once you start tosee people start to leg in and get

(12:26):
this advantage, you don't want tobe the company that is, you know,
Blockbuster when Netflix comes along, becauseeverybody else takes the lead and you
don't take it because you say,I don't know if I trust the blockchain.
So I think again that regulatory clarityis going to help people get excited
about it, and companies are goingto start to experiment, and once they
start to realize how much their customersget that advantage, and they get an
advantage. I think the sky isthe limit. Well, hear me out

(12:50):
on this, because this is kindof the state in where we are.
I'd love to get your feedback onthis, Shelley. Is when you look
at this, because you could goback into two thousand and seven and kind
of look at the birth of socialand what was happening at that time.
I know, Shelley, you andI are both going to try to make
it to vcon. Gary Vanichek wasone of the guys that kind of broke

(13:11):
out of that era with Wine LibraryTV, and you know, I think
what many companies looked at was muchlike what we're dealing with Web three right
now. The early pioneers are oftenlooked at as the crazy ones quote from
Steve Jobs, and then then whathappens is you get the scammers they come.

(13:31):
It's just is a natural evolution ofevery technology going forward. We saw
it on social, we saw iton the birth of the Internet, and
now we're seeing it in Web three. But then you get that next step,
which is the early adopter crowd ofmajor companies, and that, to
me, I mean you got blackRocks setting up with Ethereum with Biddle their

(13:52):
new tokenized real world asset components.This starts to hint that may be they're
in on the gag now, isthat the big companies have figured out really
what's happening? How quickly do youthink we're going to see the pile in,
you know kind of so to speak. What do you think, Kilie?
You're seeing it more and more right, which is exciting now to your

(14:16):
point, you know the scammers andthings like that that happens in every new
industry, and it's happening. It'shappening now. I think the big guys
are coming in more and more.I think it's happening faster even maybe than
you know what it looked like itwas going to over the last year or
so, which is I know,for us at Devours, is really an

(14:39):
exciting opportunity to see that happening.Yeah. I think the key here is
going to be this transition between Webtwo Web three, whether or not we
see a lot of companies that dotake the charge and do you know a
big uptake Steve you in working withsome of the companies that you've worked with,
what is the bi biggest draw forfirst of all, the idea,

(15:03):
what is it that allures them?And then what do they perceive as the
biggest challenge? What you know,kind of that give and take that you
see in the boardrooms. What haveyou seen out there? Yeah, So
the biggest I think the biggest drawfor most of them right now is the
concept of customer loyalty because you createa flexible brand asset that has so much
opportunity. I mean even like youknow, like whether it's a ticket or

(15:26):
whether it's a reward, that youget the opportunity to use that as a
flexible brand asset to say we canprogram against that because you know, if
you get a coupon on something,you get a coupon, you redeem it,
maybe you scan it, maybe youneed to remember some numbers. If
you get an NFT and it justworks, and you can program against it
because it's programmable software. The ideaof having that loyalty and that data behind

(15:48):
it and that the customer can haveadvantage there, that's something they see as
a major advantage. It is generallylike loyalty to almost a person. When
I talk to large brands, it'sthe loyalty or depending on the brand.
It's the right because I think theuntapped resource that you know, restaurant brands
or really any brand has right nowis that your while it tells a story.
Right now, all the things inmy background that I bought, there

(16:11):
is no way to track them outsideof a couple that have some sort of
NFT component tied to them. Butif I collect or I do certain actions
on a site, then you knowthat that says something and builds a profile
about me as a person, whichmeans you can give me more relevant information,
not in a more sort of liketarget you with a banner ad on
Facebook way, but actually understanding meas a customer. Because, like,

(16:33):
to give an example, mister Beastcan't tell you who his top fans are,
right but if he had some sortof a loyalty program that allowed him
to understand who consumes his videos themost, who shares the most, who
tweets about them on social and hasthat reward system in place, well,
mister Beast could say, hey,let me send a private text to that
person with a video thanking them,because I know that is my top fan.

(16:55):
Whereas right now that doesn't happen.So that's the biggest thing, and
then really quickly the i'd say thebiggest barrier. It continues to be the
tech barrier because we are building soclose to the rails right now that it
is hard to get on with simplelogins and the back end of the tech
connecting, so those things are certainlychallenging. So you hit on a couple

(17:18):
of things that I think the spaceis really dealing with right now. And
Shelley, I'd love to get yourfeedback. You've got really kind of a
new dynamic happening. A good exampleof this is the Saga Phone and what
they were able to do, whichyou know chapter one and chapter two the
two different phones that the Solana PhoneCompany has launched, and they attached these

(17:41):
components to it in terms of airdrops, and I shouldn't say they many
of the projects attached to that hardwarewith air drops, and in chapter one
it was Bonk and now what we'reseeing as a whole lineup of different companies
lining up in chapter two. Wedo a lot of promotion around that,
not paid just to so we cankind of get people out there thinking about

(18:03):
it. And I've noticed that thenumber of projects that are now coming to
these kinds of launches are pretty significant. So I'm thinking, you know,
just out loud, you get acompany like a McDonald's, they launch an
NFT, why couldn't projects come inand say, Hey, anybody that's holding
an NFT from McDonald's, you know, let's call it the Gramma's NFT,

(18:26):
We're going to air drop you x. And now you've got added values starting
to build into this. When youthink about that, are you seeing any
brands right now, Shelley that arelooking at those kind of strategies kind of
this external because it really is kindof opening up the coffer at the same
time expanding the value of what yourbrand is doing. It's so new,

(18:48):
right. I mean, we're workingwith one of the largest convenience store chains
in the world and they did anNFT last year, and when I showed
them on our platform, hey,we can do a promotion even for that
one. Anyone that's holding it,they don't have to do anything else.
Here's how this works it, youknow again the big eyes, and so

(19:11):
I think you know that as well. You know, we're doing a project
upcoming with Doghouse, and that's partof what we are scoping in is,
you know, not only your traditionalWeb two customers and how do we how
do we tap into them, buthow do we tap into that Web three
world with the cross collaboration of othercommunities and give that opportunity. So it's

(19:33):
really we are pioneers and all ofthis. Anyone that is you know,
playing in the space, but thefrontier is wide open to just you know,
to say in that theme and it'sexciting and brands, brands are brands
do get it once once they areable to be given that analogy and what's
possible and that paint that picture.There's excitement there. We're starting to put

(19:56):
together programs like this for the mediaside of things from a PBN standpoint,
because I see value in creating oneblockchain connectivity to authenticity of media. There's
a lot of value there a lotof people don't necessarily understand yet. But
I'm more interested in the consumers ofthe media because, as you just said,

(20:18):
Steve, there's some value add toeach one of those consumers that can
come to it. And if youcan look at ways to incentivize those readers,
listeners of a podcast, viewers ofa video, etc. To create
some brand value and also some valuefor them. I think the NFT and
of course blockchain is going to bea big part of that, Steve.

(20:41):
When you look at the blockchains thathave been successful with this, we'll look
at Ethereum flow you mentioned earlier withwhat is happening with Dapper Labs, you
look at Solana Avalanche. Is thereany specific blockchain that you feel like has
a little bit of an edge rightnow? I'm still big on Ethereum.
And by the way, just recapsomething just to like give a quick context

(21:02):
as you talk about those rewards,and then I promise I'll get to like
the actual blockchain question, which isI think people need to like actually understand
and actually step up elevation to realizewhere we are in the Internet, which
is the first set of the Internetwas the read as Christicks as you mentioned
in his book, right, itwas like you were the customer, good
by stuff. The second stage youwere able to write. It was social

(21:22):
media, you could talk. Butin the first stage of the Internet you
were the customer. In the secondone you were the product, right they
sold your data and information. InWeb three you are the brand, meaning
that you are part of it.So when you talk about like the PBN
thing, it's like people by ownershipthrough affiliation feel more connected to it and
have that opportunity to say this ispart of my identity, this is part
of my community, and I wouldlike to talk about it, and you

(21:45):
are able to get that real timedata as feedback. But to directly answer
your question about the blockchains, Ifeel great about Ethereum because Ethereum and Ethereum
layer twos, and for people whodon't know what a layer two is,
it effectively the analogy I make isto pretend like Ethereum is the boss and
the layer two is the worker.Right, Yeah, the worker does all
the work and then the boss signsoff on it and says transaction through for

(22:07):
a little bit of a fee,and Ethereum doesn't have to do all the
work. It makes it faster andmore efficient. Well, these layer twos
that people are building blast Base Abstractwhich was acquired recently by a company Igloo
that is big from Pudgie Penguins inthe NFT space, and what you were
talking about with black Rock, Ibelieve they will build that exchange in Texas
on a layer two. So tome, Ethereum has an opportunity to scale.

(22:30):
It is a secure, faster andbetter network for most things. Now,
I think they all have different purposes. The one caveat would be when
I look at these blockchains, Ithink they're going to be much like you
see with various other types of softwarecompanies, where you know they'll have specialty
so arbitrum optimism. They do alot of gaming, and so you know,

(22:51):
when a gaming company wants to comeinto web three, they can say,
hey, tell me about the workyou did with this company or that
company and get that council and thenyou know, ethereum is more like a
catch all. And I think thosespecialty networks make a lot of sense as
they continue to do bizdev around specificverticals. Well, and you hit on
something there. I think that isimportant and that is when you look at

(23:11):
because this goes back to the pointof decision makers. And I'm a quick
question to you, Shelley, whenyou're talking with people in the restaurant space,
and this isn't being about age,but I'm just curious, what age
are the people that are making thesedecisions now? Is there a range that
you're finding. There's a wide range, right, there's still the gen xers.

(23:36):
I'd say, you know more ofthem probably fall within millennials as far
as that are the up and cominghead of digital marketing, et cetera.
Gen Z still you know, maybemoving up in their career, but aren't
aren't there yet some of the brandsdefinitely, you know that is, but
you know it's still it's still millennialand gen X, but all of them

(23:59):
are trying to figure out how tomake their demographic younger and younger as far
as what they can tap into.The reason I say that is because security.
To what Steve is talking about,Ethereum is the blockchain that adds security.
I mean, you look at thenumber of nodes that they've got out
there very you know, basically validatingthe entire ecosystem. It'd be like having
an Internet with no u net orno backbone, you know, And that's

(24:23):
essentially what Ethereum is in terms ofsecurity. So I would agree with Steve
in the sense that eth is probablygoing to be one of the bigger selection
points. However, some of thesethings are rising fast. You look at
what Base is done, you lookat some of the challenges I think that
Solana has had on uptime. Ifthey solve that back to you know what

(24:44):
you're talking about with optimism, optimismand arbitrum, both of those. I
know we're getting into kind of thenerdy stuff here, but what I'm getting
at for restaurant operators, there's alot of solutions out there, which in
most new technology there's usually just ahandful. Now you've got so much do
you feel like that's a problem,Steve, in terms of just too much

(25:06):
selection? So, I think it'sa major opportunity. And I'll tell you
why so again without getting two inthe weeds. I always try to bring
it up and make it understandable.It's like the way blockchains make money is
through transactions, and users generally throughtransactions, the transaction happens, they get
a fee. It works right.So as a result, people who want
to build on blockchains are getting grantsand development work from developers. Yeah,

(25:27):
given and thrown their way based onoperating on certain blockchains. You talk about
Base, I think Base spent youknow, a disproportion which is an ethereum
layer too. It's like they spentan incredible amount of money or their plenty.
You spend incredible amount of money,literally to the tune of millions marketing
against Base and the products that arebeing built on base, so you know,
last very similar, they you know, create an ecosystem where they gave

(25:51):
money and grants and sort of amarketing or I should say money in marketing
to the companies that built on there. So where a lot of people might
say, oh my god, it'ssort of like a paradox of choice,
my answer would be, actually,no, it's a major opportunity for a
restaurant brand to say I want tostart doing a restaurant based loyalty program for
my individual program, Like right whereshould I build? And if you're a

(26:12):
major brand, especially you're going tohave some of these blockchains saying we're going
to offer you sometimes millions of dollarsto build on our platform and develop it
for you. Like, I thinknow is the time to get that opportunity.
Yeah, Polygon has been known todo that. I think Avalanche has
done it with some sub nets,you know. So there, you're right

(26:33):
there, there is a there isa first mover kind of approach that seems
to be coming into the space rightnow. Shelley, A quick question on
uh, devour real fast when youlook at the online ordering side of things,
because to me, this is oneof the holy grails of food service,
especially around blockchain or earning loyalty points, so that you kind of,

(26:56):
you know, create a value forordering from a restaurant through a device like
what you guys are doing. Dorestaurant operators see it that way? In
terms? All right, this isa whole dynamic of how to think about
online ordering. I think it's stillnew again. Like a lot of things
that we're talking about. You havethe brands that are absolutely maybe they don't

(27:17):
even understand it, but they saywe're here for it, right, will
be your guinea pigs. We wantto test out what is next. Then
there are others that do get it. Even when you start to look at
payments and what's possible within crypto payments, and I know that's not our discussion
here, but when you start lookingat fees on crypto payments versus traditional credit

(27:42):
card payments, there's money to besaved there for restaurant brands. So there's
a lot of value across the industry. We're focusing a lot in on what
can we do for you from aloyalty, a marketing and ordering standpoint,
but it's in it. We're inthe education phase still with a lot across

(28:03):
the industry, but that's it's it'smoving fast. I have been a bit
surprised at you know, granted,I feel like sometimes we're in a bubble,
you know, over on PBN,which is mostly blockchain and crypto,
you know, discussions and videos andpodcasts and our audience over there. We're
doing an air drop that is outto our you know, private group that

(28:26):
we call the Diamond Circle, youknow, and this thing has a couple
hundred thousand people in it. Andwhat we've done is these air drops into
incentivize value to just being a member. You know. This is just a
kind of like, hey, Ithank you, you know kind of scenario
when you look at that as anopportunity with a restaurant brand. Steve,
what about that as it would Doyou think restaurants are truly seeing that as

(28:49):
a marketing opportunity or do you thinkthey kind of look at this as a
tech budget thing. I think,I mean, I think you nailed it
actually, Like I mean, obviouslyyou're very deep in the space in both
spaces that you're knowledgeable, but Ithink that's it. I still think people
look at it as like, talkto the tech people because there is this
weird convergence of this being like thesoftware back end of the tech and the

(29:12):
perfect scenario of the blockchain is it'scompletely obfuscated and you don't know what exists.
But I think for a lot ofpeople, they see the tech and
they don't realize not only is therea loyalty opportunity, not only is there
a data opportunity. Not only isthere the opportunity to get to know your
customers better, but there's actually agamification you can add where it's like again
like imagine, like when I talkedabout that mister Beast example. As a

(29:34):
restaurant, imagine if someone patronize yourrestaurant regularly right now. When when I
became a regular at a sushi restaurantYakima, Washington, when I lived there,
they knew it because they saw myface and they would serve me sushi
and give me free stuff occasionally becauseI was in there. But imagine a
world where you scan into this restaurant, they know how much you've been there,
they know what orders you like.They say, hey, you know,
mister Kazinski, I know you're abig fan of the chocolate cake.

(29:56):
We're gonna give you one of thosetoday as a surprise for doing it,
or you gain different badges, likeyou said the mayor thing, like people
love leader boards. The ability toget different badges and then reward back to
people with certain badges, and youknow, based on what those badges represent,
it just becomes completely different than apunch card. And it can be
so much more personalized and gamified,and it can turn quite literally, the

(30:18):
blockchain can turn anything you do intoa gamified experience. You know, I
look at McDonald's. I just think, you know, we've done presentations all
over the industry around you know,some of the things that we've made public
around success models for someone like aMcDonald's, and you know, they had
the Gramma's program that was really wentviral with the grammar Shake. Now they're

(30:41):
starting to integrate some of these thingsinto their new NFT slash Web three effort,
which I think is kind of interesting. It's kind of a you know,
it's I won't say it's half harded, but you know, there's some
limitations there of it truly being aWeb three project. But that being a
side. The point I'm geting atSteve is what about the challenges? So

(31:03):
I won't say the words, butwe all know a big coffee brand who
stepped away from this, you know, with Odyssey, And at the same
time you have other brands that areleaning forward. So there's a bit of
a mixed kind of a mixed signal. I think to big brands, do
you what is your opinion on thespace right now in terms of the challenges

(31:27):
that some of these brands could meet. Yeah, and I appreciate the respect
on that one. With my formerclient, I can say, I mean
it was Starbucks. I appreciate thekind of respect there because I always want
to be kind of my former clients. And by the way, I think
they had a tremendous program. AndI don't have insight into the shutdown on
that one specifically as much, butI will say, like across the board,
it just depends how they embrace it. When you mentioned the McDonald's example,

(31:49):
you know what you don't want withany new technology, You want to
kind of test it in your testingground. But it's so different because you
need public users to do you playa test on things like that. And
I think when certain brands will lookat it like a skunk Works project and
put it to the side. Butlike again, like I try to make
this analogy to people where when socialmedia came out, if you created a
social media handle that didn't have anyconnectivity to your brand, that was sort

(32:14):
of on the side, it wasn'tgoing to be successful. It needs to
be integrated and makes sense. Andthe blockchain is very much like social media
in that sense that you need tomake sure that you are integrating your blockchain
program alongside everything else you're doing.It should be not some like special thing
that you like as a shiny object. It shouldn't be something that is a
skunk's work project, but rather whenthe PR people and the marketing people and

(32:36):
everyone's sitting around a table, there'sa person who's working on your web three
program who leads that that helps drivethat forward. When it's integrated as part
of the overall brand, that's whenit works best versus when you sort of
have heartedly go it because it doesrequire a lot of work, time,
energy and understanding. Well, Ithink that's where the risk comes in for
operators. You know, you're eitherall in on some of these things.

(32:58):
I won't say all in because becausethere's you can put rails on these things
still, but being able to makeit available to at least a large enough
of a true market test to getsome feedback on this, I think is
critical going forward. Shelley, whatabout Okay, So you and I have
talked a lot about this in termsof how operators go about the process of

(33:22):
learning. We're going to be doinga deal over at prosper We'll be talking
about this very thing is you know, kind of this the learning experience of
restaurant operators going into this. Whatdo you feel if you could give two
things and this to being for operatorsthat are listening right now or watching,

(33:44):
what do you think they have toget and push away out of the brain
to kind of open up to this, because most people have these tendencies that
kind of hold you back from jumpingin. Yeah, I would say the
headlines right what they maybe have seenover the past year or two and really
understand the power of the technology inhelping them accomplish what their business some of

(34:07):
their business pains are right now oftapping into that younger generation. And it
doesn't have it's not a big it, you know. Even again back with
Devour, We're not asking them torip anything out. We've built something that
absolutely can compliment what they're already doing. So it's not a big it play,
right, It's an opportunity within marketingthat can can work with their existing

(34:30):
loyalty things like that and compliment.So I think it's the removing the thoughts
and their preconceived opinions based on theheadlines, giving it an opportunity to understand
the power of it, and inrealizing it's not this monumental lift they get
so much the ROI versus what theeffort going into it is just enormous.

(34:53):
And so I think those are thetwo biggest things. That's that's good,
a good observation, because that's Ithink you're right, you know, when
you're dealing with that. I wantto play a game with Steve, and
this is going to be fun.Well, I want to go into the
different categories of business in general,mostly consumer facing, Okay, and Steve,

(35:15):
I want you to give me ascore of one to ten in terms
of the opportunity. Almost everything isgoing to be a ten, I would
imagine, but I want to there'sgot to be one that's better than the
others. What I'm thinking. Solet's first of all, we'll save the
restaurant industry for last, because I'vegot some others I want to hit you
on. So you look at luxurygoods in fashion, We've already seen a

(35:37):
lot of movement in that space.What would you get on that? Give
that on a one to scale,a one to ten scale of having a
real Web three success within the nextfive years. This is going to go
for all of these different industries.What do you think is how likely they'll
be they'll be you success, usingit, adopting it, and being it.

(35:58):
Like at the front of the game, I'll say seven seven, okay
for luxury goods fashion, Okay,I won't And then I want to go
into sports, and I'm going toqualify the fact that Nike is kind of
already a leader in this with whatthey've done with Artifact, But there's a
lot of other sports betting, esports, you know the category of sports,

(36:20):
sports media. What about sports?What are you what are your thoughts
there? Eleven out of ten?I mean, yeah, no, ra
sports is going to be a hugeone. This is one of the categories
I think is kind of undersung.Let's go into more of the professional services.
You think real estate, medical,the potential what we'll see in maybe
even legal professional services. What doyou think opportunity eight, likelihood of adoption

(36:47):
in the next five years? Five? Yeah, I agree. Okay,
we're thinking along the same lines forsure, Shelley. Okay, so we
got to bring Shelley in on thisone too. So now we're going to
talk about the restaurant industry. ButI want to break it up into a
couple of sectors. All right,restaurant industry, big brands, you know,

(37:08):
well known top line brands. Shelley, what would you say one to
ten? You know, I loveSteve McDonald's, you know those kind of
people. Yeah, I love whereSteve went on opportunity versus adoption, right,
I mean, the opportunity honestly,I believe across the restaurant industry is
a nine a nine plus. Ithink we're still in that five to six

(37:31):
as to how are they going toadopt? But the opportunity is huge.
Okay, I'll spin this over toSteve. Now you look at smaller brands
independence, So these are mom andpops that because really the threshold to entry
here is fairly low. You know, to maybe roll something out on a

(37:52):
loyalty program that's blockchain based, BubbaGuys is a good example. They did
it with Solana thirty units, verysmall brand, you know, very successful.
What would you say one to ten, Steve, I'm going to give
an eight. And the reason Ido that is because I think there will
be out of the box solutions likesquar space type things that come out for
these and so I see it asan opportunity that still take advantage of.

(38:15):
All Right, what about the beverageindustry? Either of you can kind of
score this. We just saw somethingthat came down I think it was.
It came through this morning on oneof our feeds. And I've already seen
it with things like Belvedere. There'sbeen a handful of companies that have kind
of come in that space, butthere was one that here recently. I'll

(38:37):
bring it up in a minute,but what do you think about the beverage
industry, whether it's alcoholic, nonalcoholic. I'm thinking companies like Gatorade,
then you could go into beer brands, et cetera. What about that being
used for Web three and NFT integrations. I mean, I can I can
start. I'll say opportunities a ninebecause you can turn your customers into consumers

(39:00):
more than just a beverage and sellsomething beyond the beverage to your customers,
because you can only sell so muchmore gator ade, but you can sell
fandom and loyalty. And you know, there's so many of these big brands,
now I won't even call them bigbrands, so many of these brands
that are launching. You know,you look at Ryan Reynolds, you know,
now the All In podcast. Iwas listening to these guys the other
day. They're gonna watnch a tequila. You know. It's this, it's

(39:20):
this next evolution of what is kindof interesting, and this is where it
gets kind of intriguing around things likewhether it's alcohol beverages or even non alcoholic
beverages, where things could could go. So this was coming over from today.
I just found it was Lehman Brothers, which is doing their Ashes of
Destruction. It's an eight year oldmalt whiskey. These guys are going to

(39:44):
offer this as an n FT witha physical so you have a utility and
an NFT and it's gonna be andthey're gonna drop it in these things called
blinks. Have you seen these cominginto social yet? All right, So
it's like it's almost like a framethat where you can interact with the blocking

(40:04):
Are these the Soul the new Soulone? Yes, oh yeah, so
it's on you can pick them upon it. They're limited right now,
you know, mainly, but thefact that we're seeing that is pretty it's
pretty out there actually, uh,I mean, because there's a ton of
potentials here for the future, goinggoing forward. What about media? What
are your thoughts on that, Steve, Oh, that is like you nailed

(40:28):
it earlier. You kind of didit as a flyby ten out of ten
for authenticity and having an officially authenticatedpiece of media like to help kill deep
fakes ten out of ten. Yeah. When you look at those kinds of
things that are happening now with withfrontline media, it kind of reminds me

(40:50):
because the you know, the influencercrowd has been one phase of the evolution
of social Now we've seen kind ofthe decentralized basis of even cable news,
where you've seen you know, whetheryou're a conservative or your left or your
moderate or liberal. Now it seemslike there's a pocket in all of these
different areas where media is starting toexplode. And I just think that blockchain

(41:15):
might end up being a huge opportunity. There so lots of cool stuff.
Man, this has been a goodconversation. You guys are on top of
it. Shelley. We had toget you asking more questions. That's it.
Hey, I knew with this onethere would be so much for you
and Steve to talk about. Ihave a lot of Steve to have a

(41:36):
conversation with on our first podcast.Me geez, I'm like, this is
like red meat to me. I'mlike, exactly, I seated up,
but I was ready for you tohit it out of the park. You
did. I get the opportunity totalk to Steve, but you know a
lot on an automicly basis, andso I knew that you know, just
the content and the approach, theopportunity to work with him. As I

(41:59):
read his book, I'm like,you wrote a book about technology that devour
built. We've got to work together, and it just made sense. But
I knew, you know that thiswas right up his alley as to how
do we transition Web two to Webthree, how do we use it for
marketing, how do we use itfor the power of really, you know,

(42:20):
industry. I absolutely love what weall do. The restaurant industry,
and I just I knew it wasgoing to be a great conversation. It
absolutely has been. So it's beengood to write shotgun on this one,
and I'll jump in more as wecontinue to get well, we will.
Last thing is predictions. Guys.We're bringing this into the show now and
trying to give a little bit moreof a fun spin to each episode.

(42:44):
And I want to kind of justand these can be random predictions, things
that are obvious, or things thatare just so far out there that would
be crazy. Shelley, what isyour prediction for anything in the restaurant space?
Could be tech brand going belly up, it could be anything. What
do you have a prediction for methis week? I think in the next

(43:06):
oh, this week, upcoming thisweek, or in the next future.
Okay, yeah, six months toa year is kind of our time zone
because I want to put these ina red Book podcast at the end of
the year and see if our predictionsare right. Okay, here we go.
Next six months to a year.You are going to see all sorts
of restaurant brands in gaming in virtualrestaurant environments, being able to order from

(43:30):
them with that element of using blockchainfor loyalty, perks and rewards with that.
So that's a good one. Haveyou seen the movement that Ikea has
had in roadblocks already? That wasinsane. I could not believe that.
I was blown. I'm like this, these guys are a Danish furniture maker.

(43:52):
What are they? What are theydoing in roadblocks? But it's a
natural transition, and you know,we're seeing a lot of things happening there
and there's no doubt it's coming.Yeah, all right, Steve, you're
on the You're on the big stage. Now give us a prediction. I
will first of all, verbally retweetwhat Shelley said because I agree with that.
But then I will also build ontop of that and say, and

(44:15):
this is a longer term prediction,but put it down. In the next
five years, we will see abrand that utilizes the blockchain and leans into
it, a restaurant first brand thatwill become a major player because they lean
into the gamification, loyalty, andopportunity that the new version of the Internet
provides. Well, you know,there's been a handful of those kinds of

(44:37):
success stories like that. It's possible, you know, it could be a
Wowbow you know, someone like Jeffwho's really taken it. I mean I
saw somewhere the other other day he'sat like is it five thousand locations or
something. There's something crazy. Don'tdon't mark me, But the point is
is he's gone from what was asmall, you know, regional fast casual

(45:00):
brick and mortar to now, youknow, kind of a virtual brand that
is, what's hundreds of locations withina couple of years to thousands of locations.
So you might be right, Steve, we may see someone that completely
gets a breakout and just becomes,you know, the next Chipotle kind of
thing. So yeah, hey,listen, guys, this has been a

(45:22):
good one for sure today talking aboutthe really kind of the future of Web
three and NFTs in the restaurant space. Our show is going to be focused
on this a lot more so.Steve. We definitely want to have you
back on the show when you canand have time. Awesome. Can't wait
to do it again and really enjoythe conversation. Thank you for having me,
all right, thanks again for stoppingand we appreciate it, Steve.

(45:43):
All Right, Shelly, that wasa fantastic episode. I think those are
the kind of things we need tobring to the operators because it really does
break down the what you hit on, which is a lot of reserve to
make the step. And I thinkif if operators start to understand, you
know, the opportunities here, becausethere's just so many different things that are

(46:07):
happening right now. I know wewent through a lot of stuff, but
man, we need to drill intoeach one of those, I mean payments
alone. I think we could doa couple couple of episodes just on breaking
down some different context of things wejust talked about, cause you just noted,
you know, that was my experienceof realizing even that I needed to
start the company I did was wasduring the pandemic, studying the value of

(46:31):
the technology itself, not getting all, you know, into just the hyper
headlines, and I was blown awayand knew that it, you know.
And so I think as more andmore brands, you know, that it
becomes apparent what's possible the same thingsgoing, it's gonna be huge. Yeah,
we're gonna We're going to definitely dropthis episode over on the PBN newsletter

(46:54):
because I think a lot of ouraudience over there, you know, totally
tuned into what's we're doing here onRock My Restaurant Now, and I think
for the restaurant operators out there thatare listening or watching, this is the
same story, guys that you wentthrough and most of you are still around,
that went through in the evolution ofsocial media, and they just have

(47:15):
to I mean, the blueprints alreadythere. You did it once, you're
gonna go ahead and do it again. So just take the leap and go
for it. I love Steve storyof that. You know, it was
from a PR standpoint. Hey,you're now our new you know, social
media person, and I think,yeah, that you're now our web three,

(47:37):
you know, digital marketing person.So that's going to be no doubt.
It's kind of coming in all right, you guys. If you're not
subscribed to the show, make sureand hit subscribe right now, or whether
over on the saver fm YouTube channel, or over on Spotify or even on
Apple Music. And of course thisis the one place where you're gonna get
content like this that really is notout there in the restaurant industry. So

(48:00):
this is the go to podcast,which is why it's coined to Rock Your
Restaurant. We'll catch you next timeright here. Stay tuned,