EP 115: Steven Streufert

Steven Streufert from the Bluff Creek Project joins us to discuss his interests and thoughts on the topic.

PLEASE LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, RATE, AND REVIEW ON ALL PLATFORMS: YouTube, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Spreaker, or wherever you listen!

Sean Forker hosts SASQUATCH EXPERIENCE, featuring Matt Arner, James Baker, Vance Nesbitt, and Henry May.

Creative Consultants:
Matt Knapp (Bigfoot Crossroads) & Les Sincavage (Xplorers: Seekers of the Truth).

Show Executive Producer: Brian Corbin

Special Thanks to all our Patreons!
The Experiencers: Jeffreylee Matthis, Got Knockers!, Larry Sharpe, and Tom Mihok
Trackcasters: Scott Dieterle, Bass1802
The Hollers: Cindy Brewer, Gail Frederick, David Hickernell, Bryley Hull, Matt Arner, Okie Mechanic, and Lori Worthington

Without their support, this show would not be possible. For as little as $2 per month, please consider becoming one of our supporters: https://www.patreon.com/Sasqua... />
Our show intro music, “Epic Action Trailer” by Roman Senyk Music, is licensed to us for commercial use. “9-11 Bigfoot Call” is also used under Fair Use. Sean and Gabriel Forker are credited with the intro and exit voiceover work. Sasquatch Experience Trailer music, “It's in the Fog” by Darren Curtis, is used with permission and attribution.

If you’d like to hear a particular topic or guest, EMAIL US: [e-mail]

Check us out on Social Media:
facebook.com/sasquatchexperience
X.com/SquatchEXP
Instagram.com/sasquatchexperience

Visit Our Website: http://www.sasquatchexperience.com

Sasquatch Experience by Sean Forker, James Baker, Vance Nesbitt, Matt Arner, and Henry May is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License. Based on a work at https://www.spreaker.com/show/... beyond the scope of this license may be available at https://www.sasquatchexperienc....

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/sasquatch-experience--4208641/support.


Sasquatch Experience by Anomalis Entertainment, LLC  is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
Based on a work at https://www.spreaker.com/show/sasquatch-experience.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available at https://www.sasquatchexperience.com/permission.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed by the guests of Sasquatch
Experience do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the host, sponsors,
or affiliates of the Sasquatch Experience. As always, listener discretion
is advised.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
We got someone or something growing around out here?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Does a legend walk among us working in the forests
of our world?

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Did you see what it was?

Speaker 5 (00:33):
Was it a person or an animal?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Or I can't go off if I know as if
my thunder light came on and I hear happened to
Glenn and see the thing running across the yard a
good fight man or something works like a man. I
don't know what it was.

Speaker 6 (00:50):
For over fifteen years, we've talked with scientists, researchers, investigators,
and witnesses trying to gain insight and proof around the
existence of this mysterious entity.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Jesus quiet ar heel, Hello, get somebody out here.

Speaker 4 (01:09):
What's going to announce?

Speaker 2 (01:10):
There's got to revention about six foot nine?

Speaker 4 (01:13):
I don't know, easy announce there.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, I'm working right away.

Speaker 7 (01:16):
Oh okay, hand on her yarn?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, God, it's big.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Okay, what's he doing in your yard? We're gonna do you.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Join us as we continue into the investigation of the
Sasquatch Experience. And well, well, good evening everyone, Welcome to

(02:01):
the Sasquatch Experience. Sean Forker, James Baker, Vance Nesbitt, Matt Arner.
No Henry May yet tonight, of course, as we are
brought to you by the longest intro in Bigfoot podcasting
right there on your screen, we got to shorten that up.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
Gentleman.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
It's been a long time, but we do have a
great guest tonight. But before we bring our guests on
the show, we did want to take a moment. A
couple deaths in the realms of cryptozoology and upology. Christopher O'Brian,
of course, the author of Stalking the Herd, researcher involved
in a lot of cattle mutilation studies, passed away over

(02:37):
the weekend. And of course Paul Halsey, you know, more
acquainted with our good friend Henry May. I met Paul
a couple occasions, but didn't quite have the you know,
opportunity to build a friendship with Paul. Besides, you know,
just a general passing acquaintance. But again, our condolences go
out to Paul's family and friends. You never want to

(02:59):
experience these things, and unfortunately it's that part of life
that happens. But damn it always happens, especially around this
time of year.

Speaker 6 (03:08):
It just a's a little deeper cut.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
But again, express our condolences out there. Was going to
give Henry some time to talk and if he pumps on,
maybe we'll do that a little later. Give him a
chance to, you know, say some kind words about his
friend James Baker back in the habit without rambling on
too much. Goat, folks, we do have a great guest
on the program tonight. Matt was kind enough to put

(03:31):
this together. Matt, do you want to go ahead and
give a little intro to our guest of the program?

Speaker 5 (03:37):
Well, absolutely, if anyone in the big thimming world is
involved in in gets in the coalition group, it is
a fantastic, fantastic group that was put together by our
guest Steven. Really it gives that critical thinking that is

(04:01):
much needed UH for UH for this type of research
and and UH in interest. So UH kudos for putting
that together, for putting together a very well blended UH
audience and in group members who probably have the best UH.

(04:26):
I guess we could say arguments, but in a sometimes
in a more pleasant manner, you know, across the internet.
So uh, definitely kudos to to you Steven and uh
and again you know, we thank you for being on
the show.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
It could be a little lag there, Matt, I believe you. Yep, oh, yep,
he popped back.

Speaker 5 (04:57):
There we go, there he goes.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
We got Mario. I'm looking for the chat room, but
it's disconnected me from the talk here.

Speaker 8 (05:06):
What happened to me?

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Have choice one or the other.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
We'll read the questions to me as they come in. Stephen,
don't worry. We'll make you.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
I'm sitting here, yeah, looking at you guys, not the
chat room. So any any trolls that come in, I
hope you will squash them. Warning.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
We got your back, buddy, We got Stephen. I uh,
we've been acquainted. I don't know if we've ever actually
had conversation besides maybe just a couple of sentences on
the internet through the years. Uh, that happens from time
to time, right, you kind of run parallel, maybe don't
run into each other. But we've seen some of the
craziness over the years and the fighting, the stupidity that

(05:52):
runs rampant, the hoaxes that get bent out of control
and and and run rampant over the internet. You've been
there since before where the internet was really a thing.
So why don't you tell us your origin? How did
you get involved in bigfoot? And why would then you
start a coalition group on Facebook?

Speaker 4 (06:10):
That's the interesting thing, because all my life I was
really pro bag foot, believing in bigfoot, fascinated by bigfoot
and aliens and other things like that too, you know.
But the longer I stayed involved in these fields of study,
the more I was forced by the discourse to take

(06:33):
a skeptical position, you know. And I've been pushed to
that degree where people think I'm a a troll, a
non believing troll who has been lurking in the bigfoot
community trying to sabotage it somehow. But the fucking sorry,
the fact is that I don't know if I can

(06:56):
use my normal language here at the fact is that
I've always been very pro research and pro rational methodology
and pro science. So if that conflicts with your looney
woo woo belief systems, then well good. I mean, I'm

(07:17):
glad it does, but that doesn't make me a troll,
someone who's been his whole wife thinking about Bigfoot. Okay,
so I don't know who you people out there are
who are lurking in all the Bigfoot groups now saying
things like oh, they're just non never believer in trolls.
So I called me here to harass us. And you

(07:38):
know where were you twenty years ago? Person? You watched
Expedition Bigfoot and got inspired by Maria Mayor or whatever.
I mean, Come on, this is all a lonely a
TV show, and you know before that, at least Finding
Bigfoot had real Bigfoot researchers on it, like Bobo and Cliff.

(08:04):
I mean, say what you like about Matt or for Day,
but you know I know those guys from being in
the woods with them. And that's the real Bigfoot community
right there, is looking looking for Bigfoot at Bluff Creek.
That's how I grew into it, you know, It's how
I got absorbed into it as an adult, and I'm

(08:25):
happy that I was.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
It was.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
It was, I will say, past tense now a very
good experience to add in my life.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
I think you make a really good distinction there about
about your I call it belief system. It's not really
a belief system. But you know, there's nothing wrong with
believing yet taking that skeptical approach to everything that's put
at you, Steven. If we didn't do that, everything that
came across the internet would be accepted as Bigfoot evidence

(08:55):
kind of almost like it is today by most people.
But to those that have been around for a long time,
I still think there's that standard of what we could
we We used to call it critical thinking, now it's
called you call it. You know, you get accused of
being a troll. No, we just have a higher standard
of what evidence is.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
Yeah, like John Green, he's a troll too, I guess,
right right, yeah, and Forne Forne to Hinden, he was
definitely a troll. I mean, come on, I mean, these
are the fundamental principles upon which modern some North American
big footery was founded. Uh, be rational, you know, seek

(09:37):
a scientific approach, you can find it to whatever is
being rewarded. And you know, it's been a constant war
with the wu Wus ever since then. The wu Wu
is a is a spirituality thing that is really separate
from Bigfoot and exists exists in American culture. Like regionally,

(10:04):
you'll go to places, and they'll have mysterious haunted places
or places where monsters have been seen or aliens have
landed or whatever the hell it is. Right, everyone's got
their own regional witch or demon or ghost or goblin,
and that I mean combine that with like Native American

(10:24):
spiritual roots and a lot of other you know, European superstitions,
and you've got a fertile cultivation ground for all manner
of mysterious blogoney to you know, sprout up everywhere. And
that's what's been happening.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Why do I think it's so attractive? Why do you
think it's Why do you think that's become the more commonplace?
Do you think it's because folks really they can't come
up with an explanation for Bigfoot, so they just throw
it all into a popo re and say, oh, this
is really Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Well we you know, in the in the Coalition group,
we've warned people about these things for the whole time
we've existed. And the group was founded in two thousand
and eleven. You know, it's been thirteen years of fighting
this battle. And you know, it started fighting the wu Wuos.

(11:22):
It started by being in groups where we thought we
were talking about Bigfoot. The next thing we knew, we're
talking about stick structures and glyphs on the ground and
secret languages being spoken, and before you know it, it's
mind speak and it's aliens. You know, you can start

(11:42):
listening to people like Carlo Williams or Tom can Troll
or Igor Burtsev. Even the supposed scientists is actually not
a scientist. But you know, people like Kwoni Laps right as.
These people were the looney fringe of the day back then,

(12:04):
and they've all sort of faded away, and there's been
a whole new generational sweep taking over, so that people
like me are actually kind of bewildered, like where did
all these new people come from? Like it used to
be like I could just look at what's happening for
the week and I'd say, oh, look there's a Billy
Willard show on or whatever. Right, Oh look they're Sean

(12:27):
Forker's show, and I'd listen to that. You'd have somebody
talking like who knew what the heck they were talking about?
Like John Green or somebody was on there. And now
it's like who are these people? You know, they come
out of nowhere, they buy a plot of land, and
they're like suddenly finding they put tracks on it. You know,

(12:50):
I'm just speaking of one guy. I don't want to
name him, but like he was a little suspicious. He's
a very smart guy, starts a podcast, buy some land.
All of a sudden, now he's got big foot tracks
on his land. That is to me very suspicious. But
I mean, at least he's taking a fairly rational approach, right,

(13:13):
So I'm not one to rule that out or anything,
even like the stuff that Tom Powell proposes, like quasi
mystical stuff, because I mean, we're weird creatures ourselves, the
human race, our species is weird, and we are naturally
inclined to see things in terms of our own weirdness, right,

(13:35):
So like when there's something happening out of the woods,
we don't understand it, We're going to see a projection
of ourselves. Like that is a lot of what bigfoot is.
It is clearly clearly a lot of it anyway, is
obviously psychological or mystical, philosophical, whatever you want to call it.

(13:57):
It's definitely not just an animal in that sense. And
like when when you have science supposedly failing like it
did with the Ketchum study, which kept us all strung long,
like how many years, like seven years. It's still going
on now that uh, you know, we predicted Ketchum would fail,

(14:22):
and we showed how she was failing all along the way,
and we had real scientists supporting our view on this
that he's doing false forms of DNA study. And we
knew what was going to happen after that is the
Wu is going to be broken free and they're gonna
like run rampant as I mean, pretty much exactly what

(14:44):
they did. So you even have people like these wu
Wu people from the past being resuscitated, you know, brought
back into the brought back into the field after they'd
already been chased away. You know, he's still got like M. K.

(15:04):
Davis to people like him, right.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
That every so often that massacre theory comes back.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
I can't I can't believe it. I mean, I started
getting involved in the war in two thousand and eight
when I when I heard about the massacre theory from
Henry Maine, and I'm like, I can't believe this. And
I mean I've spoken with Henry over the years, and
I mean it's astonishing how it's still still goes on

(15:33):
no matter how much ever we put into it. We've
got we've got Bill Miller presenting the full film from
John Green that was supposedly the massacre. And you can
see blue water running through the creek. It's not blood.
And you know, and you know, once you think you've

(15:54):
got m. Davis cornered, he quits and retires. Like I've
got him to retire at least twice on my own
once alive on a radio show, The big Foot Tonight Show,
drove him into retirement, and he just comes right back,
come back, you can't resist.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah, Well, they think with that new audience, they get
a whole new generation of, like you said, folks that
want to you know.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Buy into that.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
And and the problem is they just don't go back
into the homework. They don't go far enough into the
history and and pick up on you know, the point Stephen,
that you made or other folks have made, or stuff
that's actually just in the film that there's nothing to interpret.
It's there, you know, like the film is the film.

(16:42):
There's no hidden artifacts or messaging or secrets in it.

Speaker 7 (16:45):
It's it's rare.

Speaker 4 (16:47):
But yeah, the Patterson's film, you.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
Mean, yeah, I mean there's nothing there besides what's showing
on the on the on the screen.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
Not to mention though, what's showing on the screen and
are optical illusions. You know, when we went to try
to find the film site, I was amazed. In two thousand, uh,
two thousand and one, I couldn't find it. Two thousand
and seven I went to then I went to the
conference with these guys. They took me down there and

(17:18):
they pointed out to me where the film site was supposedly,
and uh, that was just one of the theories. It
turned out. After the two thousand and three symposium in
Willow Creek, they all went up there and nobody could
pinpoint where the film slight even was. You know. M. K.
Davis's friend walked downstream and found a certain spot, and

(17:42):
other people walked upstream and that I still can't see it.
John Green was there, he couldn't identify it. And Jim Learn.
I mean, these guys, these guys, none of them, I mean,
all that collected knowledge al Odson was involved. No one
could pinpoint where it was. And so when we went
walking along we had to realize that the view of

(18:04):
the film is a plane on a two dimensional flat plane, right,
and you're looking at a bunch of information that has
to be sorted out like triggerometrically, you know, it has
to be put into a three dimensional version of the
in your mind just to be able to see where

(18:25):
the film site even is. Because those trees in the back,
they are like three hundred feet away from the camera.
You know, there is a big plane. And if you
don't have access to the information like we did with
the Christopher Murphy's book, the means the Sasquatches what we had.

(18:46):
And there's a view from above the film site taken
by Renading Inden in nineteen seventy one that shows all
the stumps and everything that was there then after the
film was shot. Now it's all grown back so that
all you see is a you see the cover of
our book, the Bluff Greek Project book, that's the title.

(19:09):
You'll see a drone footage taken by our guy Rowdy
Kelly of the film site, and we know it's the
film site. But what you what all you're seeing is
is an outline of trees grown back on the sand bar,
you know, and you can see the creek, the shape
of the creek, and it all matches up with the

(19:32):
story told by Bob Gimlins and everything else, But even
then you have to get down on the ground. When
Bob Gillen was there, he didn't even identify the big Tree.
In twenty eleven, they just he identified where he thought
they first were shooting the film, and then we were

(19:54):
doing our survey of the site, and we surveyed every
inch of that whole sand bar the size of a
square football field, and we were able to show exactly
where the big Tree was. I mean, I couldn't believe
when I first saw the big Tree, it like it
was like hidden in the background, and it sort of

(20:14):
just emerged out, like, oh my god, there it is,
you know, like sitting right next to it, where the
other trees that were supposed to be there. And we
had had actually we had arguments amongst ourselves right in
front of those trees just a few weeks earlier. We
had been there arguing about it, and our guy Ian

(20:36):
had said, this can't be the place. It just can't
be the place. And he went walking off and started
playing with his GPS and taking readings all around the
area where me and Robert sat there, and said, well,
I guess I have to do the survey, you know,
And when we did that survey, we were able to
look at it three dimensionally and see that all those

(21:00):
stumps and the log piles and the old trees were
still there. So at that point we had stable anchors
that could not be denied, and they still can't be denied.
We've added confirmed by Bill Munz and just about anybody
who's got a brain who's been there will agree with

(21:20):
our position. It's like scientifically proven. But MK Davis, he's
still going on and on about how we are the debutantes,
Like we just came along and said, oh no, that's
not the real film site, and he, on the other hand,

(21:40):
has no evidence, is not a single bit of evidence
that is related to the current site compared to the
site back then.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Well, I have to tell you, you guys have put
together quite the tone on the research you did to
you know, into the film site.

Speaker 6 (21:59):
Low yeah, pages.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
I hope you guys have read it and enjoyed it.
We tried to make it about something more than just ourselves,
you know, right, because it's really our story, like our
adventure that we took to go out and into the
world and to seek the answer to this great mystery,
like where is the film site? You know, we didn't

(22:26):
even have to propose the real hypothesis, which is Bigfoot
exists or not. You know, we just said, where's the
film site? And we were able to demonstrate a fact
in the natural real world that cannot be denied. And

(22:46):
it's just it's just beyond laughable that there's still people
who are trying to deny it. Mhm.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Well, you know what's funny is that, you know, even
for the search for the Big Fellow himself, the difficulty
in finding the film site was its own challenge.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
It's not like you could just go and prove it,
you know. You guys put the work in the accuracy
to ensure that this is where I'm at, This is
where we can validate these landmarks to prove this is
the film site.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
Yeah, I mean, how can you deny How can you
deny a set of stumps that are in the perfect
matching alignment with the photographs from the film itself and
afterwards by known researchers that have been there, You can't.
And we've done trigonometry, you know, we had our our

(23:36):
fellow Jamie Wayne, joined the group and did the trigonometry,
with the survey and with the photography, and I mean
it showed that it's beyond doubt, you know. I mean
Bill Mant spent two days there with us, serving and
working on the site. Thing. There's no doubt about it.

(24:00):
So who is this guy? Mk? Davis? He doesn't even
go to the place that we m that we talked about.
He gets down there and he immediately has downstream to
his own special place where he he you know, finds
like bones in the rocks and tries to claim that
it's a bigfoot bone.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Oh boy, Mac, go ahead, did you have a question
there or a baker?

Speaker 9 (24:23):
Well, first, I want to thank you.

Speaker 8 (24:25):
I wanted to clap through most of your conversation here
because you you pretty much say what I do, except
you read a book.

Speaker 9 (24:32):
And the fact is is because.

Speaker 8 (24:34):
I look at it, I look at all the I
enjoy the lore, but I look at.

Speaker 9 (24:39):
It from a scientific point.

Speaker 8 (24:41):
Of view, and a lot of people get mad about that,
like you don't believe it or whatever. I have never
seen anything personally.

Speaker 9 (24:47):
But I've seen photos. I've seen things.

Speaker 8 (24:50):
Plus I've listened to a lot of people that are
really smart and aren't taken easy by a stupid you know, rumor,
but you make a good you make valid points. So
a lot of this newer stuff is you know, I
always call it like Columbuses. They discovered bigfoot, so everything
they see must be what it has to be, and

(25:10):
there's no arguing with them. And those people I just
kind of walk away and go over and have a
taco or something or go, you know, I just ignore
them and they get mad or because they're like, why
aren't you interacting? Like because you have nothing of value
to the conversation, Okay, because you don't want to hear
a perspective.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
On the other side.

Speaker 8 (25:28):
Kind of how I handle politics too. But it's a
weird thing. But you know, in general, though, I want
to thank you for saying the things you say, because
you are bringing up valid points that we have always
and Sean Sean will admit because he's been with me,
how long is I always ask the utterly stupid questions

(25:49):
of where other people are standing there going don't you
just believe them? No, it's like asking what does God
need with the starship? Okay, you ask If you ask
me for some stupid request, I'm gonna ask why and
why why?

Speaker 3 (26:04):
You know you know why is God angry?

Speaker 4 (26:10):
Well, you have to look at your first principles. What
are you starting with? Now? If you're starting with a
belief in God and angels and devils and demons and
goblins in the woods and stuff like that, then of
course you're gonna also see bigfoot as something weird. But
I mean, if you're a naturalist, you start with what

(26:33):
can be established empirically and rationally, and you know, then
they'll say, well, okay, don't be so closed minded. Well
I'm not closed minded. I mean I'm an rational agnostic.
I don't believe that we know everything, so you can't
call me closed minded. I'm actually saying, very specifically to

(26:56):
your face, I'm an agnostic. That means I'm open minded.
That means I'm considering, with curiosity and determination, what is
being presented to us by reality. And I know for
a fact, by my own personal experience, is that there's
way more to reality than what we see with our

(27:17):
eyes or with our science even, you know, but we
have to progress based upon evidence. You can't just say,
well because I had a dream where I talked with
Sasquatch and Sasquatch was my teacher. I mean he taught
me about the spiritual world they came from. I mean,

(27:39):
that doesn't make it real. Okay. You know, Matthew Johnson
or whatever. You are a psychologist PhD. You don't have
the right to go around acting like people should listen
to you. You know, you've got the same obligation that
we all do as part of basically the social contract,

(28:00):
which is to establish what is real amongst ourselves. You know,
and we can say the universe is intelligible. We can
learn about things that are in the universe and try
to understand them objectively, and then if there's knowledge to
be had, that should be able to be extracted and

(28:21):
presented to other human beings and established as real or false.
You know, like, these are basic principles of science. And
science is not about the mainstream science. It's not about
the status quo. I mean, there may be scientists who
are trying to play the game of getting a grant

(28:42):
or whatever, or to control the direction of a field
of the department or whatever. But the truth is you
need to do this every step of the way. When
you're practicing science or any other form of inquiry. You
have to be able to try to stay objective of rational. Otherwise,

(29:02):
what are you doing? You might as well just write
poetry or or start a religion or something.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Saspros.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
That's what these other people are doing.

Speaker 9 (29:12):
I think that's one of the key things is though,
is the biggest problem that happens is a lot of
people get it in for the research and I'm not
making I'm not making fun of people on Discovery Channel.

Speaker 8 (29:23):
I'm not fun of the people that are making the
TV shows because I get it. You you have a
passion for a thing, you have a knowledge for a thing,
and then somebody says you can get a paycheck, you
start wavering a little bit, like hey, for production value,
Mary's gonna see the third Sasquats this week because she's
got a tight shirt and knows how to screen.

Speaker 4 (29:43):
Okay, And that's what says.

Speaker 8 (29:46):
I mean, like I loved Mountain Monsters, and like, but
you knew if you were really watched Mountain Monsters from
the beginning they were like, we're just out there having fun.
If you actually nine what we're putting in here, you directly.
But then if you watch shows like Expedition with Josh
Gates and some of that he puts he puts a

(30:08):
lot of real knowledge in it. But you can tell
that at the end of the day, a lot of
that's production value, you know, and I think a lot
of it.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
It's like on a spectrum of credibility that I would
say that anything on television is not fully credible. But
at the same time, I know, having spent all those
years with Bobo and Cliff, and you know, talking with
the other people among the Finding Bigfoot crew and producers,

(30:39):
and they would call me up every year and ask
me for advice, and I'd give it to him. You know,
sitting there in my perch and in Willo Creek, I
could see everything happening right like in the mecca of
the world of Bigfoot, and I could tell you that
there are there was a lot of concern in that
show to try to keep it real right, and especially

(31:05):
among the stars of the show, I mean especially Matt,
I mean well especially Cliff and Bobo. For sure. Absolutely
they are both people of high integrity and they would
not sell out and they give him the chance, they
would still fight to the death to be true and

(31:29):
honest and real. And that's where it's different with other
shows like Expedition Bigfoot, which is fake from day one
absolutely fake. I mean Bryce, I know Bryce from being

(31:49):
in a movie with him with Bob ed Goldwaye. He
is really sincerely interested in Bigfoot. But I don't think
he's really a researcher. He's playing the researcher on the show.
He's an actor, and he would probably be the first
one to tell you that if you asked him in private.
But Russell Acord, I don't know where that guy came from.

(32:12):
But he, you know, claims to have been a research
over like forty fifty years or whatever. And I never
heard of him. I mean I never heard of him
and never heard anything from him because he wrote some
fiction book.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
And we have that problem with the revisionist history of
people creating their own you know, for those of us
that have been here since the early two thousands, where
the hell did you come from?

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah, you were? If you were so much a part
of the Bigfoot research, I would have known about you,
because when I first got involved, I was I was
very conscious of trying to know who everyone was and
to figure out where they were all coming from. And
it was a limited few of people, like you know,

(33:02):
there were a few hundred of us basically.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, now, there's so much truth of that, and it
has grown to the point where, uh, you know, probably
more innumerable than it used to be. But there's still
a difference between the enthusiasts and the researchers. Though sadly,
I think a lot of the researchers Steven have just
now said, you know what, fuck it, I'm you know,
I'm going to go over here, I'm going to go fishing,

(33:27):
and when everybody else goes away, I'll come back.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
Yeah, exactly. I've seen a few of them come back,
like Billy Willard recently. That's why I mentioned him. I
was on his show recently. But they used to be
these were the guys that did the shows every week,
and I mean a lot of us have moved on
or died. I've he sadly, before you realize that twenty

(33:50):
years has gone by and there's been it's been such
an engaging process that, you know, I was so involved
and living right in the middle of it, I could
not escape it. It was a daily thing. I saw
big but every day, you know, driving down the street
of Willow Creek, you see one, two, three, four, five, six,

(34:13):
seven bigfoot statues or signs or whatever.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Oh Okay, yeah, he's got statues. We got to take
a quick break here.

Speaker 7 (34:28):
Guys.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
We'll be back in about six minutes, so go ahead
and take care of what you need to. Folks. You're
listening to the Sasquatch Experience Sean Palker, Vance and as
It Matt Arner, James Baker and our guest Stephen Stroyford
will be right right after this as soon as I
find Vance's button. I mean, that sounded bad.

Speaker 7 (34:47):
We'll be back.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Oh boy, steam a symbol.

Speaker 10 (34:59):
Thanks. That is all about overeating. I mean one of
the main dishes is actually called stuffing. Stuffing, what names
that they turned down? Cram it in, eat till you
can't breathe? Am I the only one that doesn't feel
comfortable with the fact stuffing is cooked inside a dead animal.

(35:20):
Shove a loaf of bread up there, delicious?

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Ah, yes, but see I prefer craym berry at in sauce. Well,
happy Monday night to you on this triple leave to
the Thanksgiving where turkeys are the creature of the day apparently.
But and first I need to apologize for the nasal
ees because yes, it's that time of year where the
head colds are you know, transporting from person to person.

(35:49):
For every doorknob you touch, you're at risk. But anyway,
A Peoria, Illinois truck driver transporting mail for the US
Postal Service in a twenty five twenty four foot box
truck in rural central Illinois reported seeing a huge creature
alongside the road, believed to be Bigfoot, while completing his

(36:10):
route back on October fifth of this year. He was
interviewed by Bigfoot investigators, who labeled it as it was
an official sighting of the mysterious massive creature also popularly
known as sasquatch or Skunkcape. Now we don't have Skunkcape
in central Illinois, and there's journalism for you. Highlighted. Troubled

(36:34):
by what he saw, truck driver Gary Rutherford Junior looked
for bigfoot research online and found a community message board
and posted his encounter. Bigfoot researchers and investigators found him
from that report, and now his tale is part of
a viral video on TikTok that has three hundred and

(36:56):
sixty thousand views and more than eight hundred in thirty
comments in less than twenty four hours. The information from
the video came via a post from the BFROS Matt Moneymaker.
Now Rutherford is quoted as saying, I'm not calling it
a bigfoot. The investigators have concluded that's what it was,

(37:18):
and I can't accept that. Rutherifer said. All I know
is it scared the absolute hell out of me, and
I can't get it out of my mind. I thought
about it for days and felt like I needed to
tell someone or report it, and that's how I ended
up online. Now Rutherford Junior continued on by stating, on

(37:39):
October fifth, I was maybe three quarters of a mile
into Route nine, and I had my low beings on,
still fairly dark out at six am when I saw it.
I didn't process this thing until I was right up
on it. I did a double take. It was standing
on two legs with brown fur. I drove past it
in about five seconds. In that moment, it locked eyes

(38:02):
with me, orange yellowish glowing eyes, and I realized it
was eye to eye even though I was sitting high
up in a twenty four foot box truck, so I
estimated the thing to be at least eight feet tall.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
I was just.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Stunned trying to figure out what I just saw. He
arrived in Canton to offload his mail shaken. He told
employees there about it, and later on he told his
family members he did go back in daylight to look
at the area, hoping to find footprints, but unfortunately it
was heavily lined with grass. When we come back, put

(38:41):
your parkson, your mittens, on your tups, and get bundled
up because we're going to go into January.

Speaker 8 (38:50):
You're listening to the big foot bullhorn right here on
the Sasquatch Experience.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
It's not Dockers, it's got Knockers. Hey, have you been
to the squatchfield site on the interweb that has it all,
introducing got Knockers dot Org. Stop on buy for an
intriguing story of the encounter that started at all.

Speaker 7 (39:19):
But wait, there's more. Got Knockers offers some fabulous merchandise
like T shirts, hoodies, onesies for the baby, plus a
stunning array of jewelry and some fantastic sauces that will
make your taste buds dance.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
But the coolest of all is a genuine god Knockers
tree knocker. Stop on by and say hi to the
folks of Got Knockers. Gwendolyn and Michael Purcell. Get in
on the action and just visit Got Knockers Dot Org
again Got Knockers dot o RG. Well, thank you Ted Man.

(40:18):
Like I said prior to that break, get your parkison,
because this is going to be one of the first
Bigfoot events of twenty twenty five exactly. It'll be Friday
and Saturday, January twenty fourth and twenty fifth of twenty
twenty five and its squatch Fest in Longview, Washington. It

(40:40):
is an annual celebration dedicated to all things Bigfoot. Held
in the picturesque city of Longview, nestled in the lush
greenery of Washington State, This festival brings together enthusiasts, researchers,
and curious visitors alike to revel in the mystery of
the legend dairy creature. At Squatchfest, you can expect a

(41:03):
range of activities and attractions designed to entertain and educate
attendees about Bigfoot and its cultural significance from expert speakers
sharing their latest research. The address is nineteen hundred seventh
Avenue in Longview, Washington. Thanks again for listening to this edition.

(41:28):
Another big footbullhorn right here on a Sasquatch experience and
as a turkey always says.

Speaker 7 (41:35):
Until we meet again, keep your.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
Toe in the mind, mind, and welcome back everybody Sasquatch experience.

(42:00):
Sean Forker, Vance Nes But, Matt Arnoer, James Baker, and
our guest tonight, mister Steven Stroyford Stephen. Before we were
on the break, I almost forgot we were talking about Vance.
Look what you did to me.

Speaker 7 (42:11):
Yeah, I do my best, and I do my best.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
Go ahead, Vance, you chime in here and get some
good questions going on.

Speaker 7 (42:18):
Well, you know, I'm kind of I'm very intrigued on
the skepticism in which you have brought, Stephen, and I
greatly appreciate it because I spend a lot of my time.
I'll look at a video, I'll look at testimony, and
I think I take it from the same perspective that
you do. I don't buy all of it, but I'm

(42:45):
still intrigued by it, and I want to know what
is the absolute truth? And it's so hard to get
to that absolute truth? And what's your take on that?
How do you get to the absolute truth?

Speaker 4 (42:58):
Yeah? Well, I don't think we ever do really, so
as human beings, we're a species stuck on a planet
in a bit of the galaxy spinning around through space.
How are we going to know everything?

Speaker 5 (43:17):
Right?

Speaker 4 (43:18):
We don't know. We're just beginning to know. If you
think about it, how ancient is the universe and yet
how young we are. I mean, we're studying our own origins, right,
And we look at creatures like the Neanderthals and the

(43:41):
Denisovans and the Fluoresce Hobbits, and we're like discovering new
things every day. And these are things that have existed
within reasonable time frames of modern history, right like uh
And with the big Footing inquiry, of course, there is

(44:02):
always the assumption that maybe I'm not an assumption, but
the feeling that maybe something still lives from our ancient
past that we just never fully extirpated and held before
the world as an extinct, dead uh species, or even

(44:22):
something I mean, frankly, that we ever discovered in the
first place. We're looking at Denisovans. They are they're known
to be human. We've bred with them, We're part Denisovans,
We're part of the Enderthal. These species never went extinct,
they just emerged with us, right, I mean in a

(44:44):
certain way, they we lost that that form of human
uh life, but we have continued to carry its genes
with us. Now that that's mysterious enough right there, And
I don't I don't need to talk about spaceships and uh,
you know, I'm having sex with a new bile ancient one.

(45:09):
Bigfoot emails in my dreams while I'm camping, like like
you can read about in the Laps writis book Keeone book.
I mean, there's always been science fiction and weird stuff
because we don't understand reality. So what do we come up?

(45:31):
We come with stories that help us understand them. And
the most powerful stories are the mythological.

Speaker 7 (45:38):
Ones, and that's very true power myth. I guess I
want to answer the question then, for the amount of
time that you have spent looking into this field of research,
and I'm just going to leave it just at that
field of research. As you have gotten older, has your

(46:01):
perspective changed at all?

Speaker 4 (46:04):
Well? Yeah, like I was saying earlier, you know, I was,
I was much much more inclined to believe in Bigfoot
before I encountered all the bigfood researchers. You know that
it was they, one after the other who taught me
how to be skeptical. All right, I mean even when

(46:27):
you get down to people like Jeff Meldrum or clif Barrickman,
or people that might be able to be your friends
or colleagues, you still have to be skeptical of what
they say, because I mean, I know for a pretty
darn close to the fact that the stuff in Bluff
Creek was a hoax, Like maybe not the Jerry Crew tracks,

(46:52):
but all the rest of it after that was Ray
Wallace and his buddies creating a bunch of goofy footprint
tracks and laughing about it. And I know this from
talking with people who live there, you know, who told
me the stories of how they were part of it.
And you know, I never did see like the absolute

(47:14):
convincing proof, like here's the wooden feet hanging on the
wall in the garage, right, but I was told, I
was told, as a matter of fact, that they were
indeed hanging on the wall in the garage. And you know,
you see those tracks in what was presented when Ray
Wallace died, and you know, you can't deny it. They

(47:35):
matched up perfectly perfectly with the tracks that were found
in Bluff Creek. And there's even one among all the
potos I've been able to see, there's one photo that
shows the track that could match with the Jerry Crew track,
but it's shown a bleak angle, so you're not exactly

(47:59):
seeing it with a perfect comparison, but it is very close.
And I know for a fact that the Blue Creek
Mountain and Onion Mountain tracks were faked in nineteen sixty seven,
right before Roger Patterson was called up to come down there.

(48:20):
So the only thing that stands out to me among
all the Bluff Creek evidence is the Patterson stuff, and that,
of course, you know, has a lot of people questioning
it as well. Maybe Patterson was just a better craftsman
than Ray Wallace was. But back in the days of

(48:40):
Jerry Crew, you know, Jerry Crew didn't make that footprint.
He was honest, sincere believer, and a lot of people
in the Bluff and Will Creek history they are sincere believers,
you know. So I mean, I question all of the
evidence claims, even the ones that are made by my friends,

(49:04):
and the things that my own group has found. You know,
we've found plenty of things that could be big foot tracks.
We've done plenty of things that could have been maybe
a bigfoot blurrying up our trail cameras, which have been
running for twelve whole year's NonStop now in Bluff Creek

(49:28):
at least, you know, an array of them, NonStop monitoring
for bigfoot and all kinds of other things. But whatever
we see, we have had zero bigfoot evidence that I
could stand behind, you know. We on the other hand,

(49:48):
we've discovered that there are endangered species living on the
film site area, the Humboldt Martin, which was fairly recently
just declared an official endangered species. Uh it's really you know,
like a pine Martin, but a regional variant of it.

(50:11):
But you know, they're they're they were thought to be
extinct here. They're genetically distinct population from the surrounding pine
mark Martins. And this goes back to you know, ice
age formations and stuff, where you know, we know that
they they were just segregated off from the other populations,

(50:32):
and we've shown that they're still living quite happily, prancing
around on the field site, and they seem to be
in a mated pair at least one made pair producing babies.
So I would not just answer your question though, trying
to be more briefed, like you know, uh, my own

(50:54):
perspective has changed because I can't just believe in something
without substantiating it to be true and claims like like
the step Just take the Olympic Project as an example,
very smart guys, all all of them wanting to produce science,

(51:17):
not wu you know, and yet there they are with
these bigfoot nests things that you know, we all looked
at it from my side of the picture and said,
those look kind of like bear nests or or maybe
they are all wood rat nests or something. But you know,
they even't got to the point where they you know,

(51:39):
they were running a go fundme project for uh, the
DNA testing of this stuff, and they finally got around
to doing it, and what did they find? No bigfoot
evidence at all, not a single shred of evidence. And
then this fact has been hush hunched by the Olympic

(52:03):
Project guys. It was revealed by by Laura kant Krantz
in her podcast, The wild Thing Podcast, and she, I
guess maybe was not supposed to have done that, but
she had Todd Disstel on the show saying well, we
found nothing. We found bear, we found deer, we found human,

(52:28):
we found everything. But what you are looking for, which
would be some kind of primate that is not human
and so anyway, like the fact that not only do
we have people who can't just move on to reject
that as false evidence, but you have an active cover

(52:51):
up program to hide that back. And you have people
in the in the Bigfoot community talking shit about you
behind your back because you are not one of them anymore,
you know, And like, this is the thing that's really,
I phone, particularly hurtful, truly and also harmful to not

(53:18):
just me but to others, to the discourse in general,
that there is a cult like behavior pattern going on here, yeah,
which strikes me is very similar to some pretty negative
cult history before this. I mean, why would you have
a cult surrounding Bayfoot? I don't quite get that. But

(53:42):
people who have seen one, or who believe they saw one,
are very adamant about trying to verify what they experienced.
And like, you know, I wasn't there, so I can't
say for sure that they didn't. You know, I have
to say, well to my friends and the other people

(54:03):
who say they saw me, put yeah, maybe maybe you did,
and maybe I even did. Because there was one night
in my own yard, one night up on the hill
above Willow Creek, when there were no, are you still there?

Speaker 5 (54:28):
We're still here, yep.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
Okay, sorry, it's one of those obnoxious Facebook.

Speaker 7 (54:34):
Calls that and we get it.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
But so anyway, so there I am in my own yard, uh,
and there's something heavy. The ground shakes when it comes
down the hill. I hear it crashed into the brush.
And the next day I find tracks in the in
the understory plants that look like footprints, you know, there
depressions in the grass, not like mud tracks. But okay,

(55:01):
this thing happened, and it happened before my eyes, although
I didn't see it, you know, it was in the dark.
I was out there, you know, waiting for it to
move while it was stable in the brush about thirty
yards for me, and I could not explain to you
what it was. I finally I decided to go back

(55:23):
towards my house and I sat there by the cabin
porch edge and just listened to what was happening. And
like sure enough, it started moving down the hill and
it was back in the neighboring yard, which was vacant
house at the time, and moving up behind the brush,
you know, which was scotch broom and grape vines and

(55:46):
some other plants. And it was back behind there, and
I could hear it breathing and walking. And I don't
think it was a bear. I mean, because I have
I had bears coming up to my house quite frequently.
Where I lived was basically on a game trail near
a creek near also a bunch of fruit trees and

(56:09):
stuff that the little neighborhood I was in had, So
I mean bears, I could distinguish them from a person
or whatever else. This, whatever it was, it was something different,
And I mean it sounded like a biped to me,
and a heavy one to make the ground shake like that.
I mean, you'd have to weigh quite considerably more than me.

(56:33):
You know, I don't know what it was. I didn't
see it, so I can't even say to myself that
I saw bigfoot or had a big foot encounter. I've
had everybody like Matt Moneymaker whomever that was a squatch
as I mean, I've had them up there showing them
the spot, and well, can I say, you know, I'm

(56:55):
the most skeptical one of all of my own experience.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
I empathized with that Stephen myself, having had my own
experience with something and always wanting to be skeptical. You
don't want to buy into your own bs, you know
what I mean, And you really want to have that
extra fine magnifying glass to pull out all your own details.
It's kind of a mindscrew to deal with, and it

(57:21):
affected me for a long time. I really feel you
on that one, because I'm still very, you know, strongly
skeptical about my own experience. And it's just harder when
you've been in this for a long time. Did I
really experience something or am I adding more to it
because maybe in my mind I want it to be
that way.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Ye, I don't know, but that was for me. That
was two thousand and eight and I was my mother
was in the hospice. I was going down to spend
time with her in the hospice while she was passing away,
you know, and right before I left was this weird experience.

(58:02):
And I can't help but think in some part of me,
I really deeply wanted it to be Bigfoot to show
that there was magic still left in the world, or
that despite the fact that I was losing control, like
of being able to save my family, you know, I

(58:24):
could at least I could at least experience Bigfoot coming
and walking in my yard. Now, I don't know what,
but you know, there's a long tradition in humanity of
experiencing like vision quest or whatever you call it. You know,
in times of importance, Bigfoot is said to arrive and

(58:46):
to bring a message to humanity. That I mean, that's
like a common Native American statement. I've heard that from many,
many tribal people, you know, saying that to me. So
or rather than books, you know, uh so, I mean,
I think that that could happen just as soon as
it with myself or any of us. In the modern

(59:09):
American world. Out there in the woods, you can experience
these things and they they take on a to mention
of reality that is like self accelerating. You know, you
you're you're wrapped up in it, You're absorbed in it.
And like having lived in the Willow Creek for all

(59:30):
those years, now I'm not. I'm suddenly in a different
world altogether. You know, where Bigfoot does not matter to people.
I mean where I am now, I'm looking around. I
don't see any Bigfoot stickers or Bigfoot statues.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Mm hm.

Speaker 4 (59:48):
The only the only place I see them is like
maybe in a tourist stop. They have Bigfoot shot glasses
and postcards, you know, but it's a weird thing to
not have it. Like, now that that's not in my life,
I feel this sort of weird emptiness, like, uh, where

(01:00:10):
did that magic go? Where's the Bigfoot? You know? Like
what can I what can I replace it with? You know,
something else? Maybe I don't know, but you know, part
of me I want to move somewhere else, like maybe
I'll go to Mount Chesta study the Limorians or Aliens,
you know, But there aren't There aren't any Bigfoot where

(01:00:33):
I am currently. I don't think it's a there's hardly
even any trees here. Yeah, there's like a there's an ocean.
I can see the ocean from my front porch, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:00:44):
You know it's kind of crazy that you mentioned that.
Because I'm in northern Illinois. I cannot tell you the
plethora of Bigfoot culture that I see on bumper stickers,
on window dc ells on a daily basis. I see
this now. I understand. A lot of it is, oh,

(01:01:06):
this is just a cool culture thing, but here, we
don't have that here. But yet a lot of people
pick up on that culture and they go on the
Bigfoot thing and there's Bigfoot with the American flag over
its back with the peace sign up. Okay, it is

(01:01:26):
what it is. But boy, do I see a lot
of it here?

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
Yeah, and you guys are I mean, I have to say,
you're in a much higher population density than we have
out here in the West, right, Like you guys have
conferences and like, I don't know how you do it.
Thousands of people show up, you know, all right, we
had conferences here in Willa Creek with Bob Gimlin standing

(01:01:52):
right next to me. Yeah, and everybody famous and it's
like one hundred and fifty people show up. Yeah, it's
really weird.

Speaker 5 (01:02:05):
So listen before we go, here's the question that if
Henry was here, he would definitely want want to ask you,
especially with uh, you know, your your history at the
bookstore and everything. Can you tell us maybe your top
three books we're involving Bigfoot research that that are a

(01:02:25):
must have for you?

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
Oh well, okay, yeah, I have to narrow it down
that much. I would say I would definitely want to
have John Green's book, I mean, irreplaceable Bible, a factual
pursuit of of what's going on and what's being reported.

(01:02:49):
I mean it's dated by now, but all the more
required because of the strong, the strong rational argument City makes.
They're not perfect. John Green was not a professional scientist
or philosopher, but he was very bright guy, and he

(01:03:10):
was very sincere about his pursuit of the meaning or
the reality of this thing. Regardless of whether it's real
animal or not. Something is happening, and it's not just hoaxing.
It's a whole complex mixture of things. And that's sort

(01:03:33):
of what John Green was right on the edge of
all the whole time. Like beyond John Green, I would say,
you've got to have You've got to have Roger Patterson's book,
just because I'm fond of it. You know, to me,
that book is it's just charming, and I had to
own a first edition of That means you're holding a

(01:03:55):
copy that Roger probably carried around in the trunk of
his car or whatever he was driving to deliver to
you know, he had his own distribution route, and he
also had these four while theater presentations that he gave,
so a great number of the copies that sold were

(01:04:18):
actually handled by Roger. And I mean that the sad
truth of the being that Roger Patterson died in nineteen
seventy two, right, very long time ago for us now,
I mean I wish that he had been around longer.
It would have been so interesting to see how he

(01:04:40):
developed as a character and a researcher. Or maybe maybe
he would have confessed to hoaxing. I don't know, but
it would have been great. And Bob Gimlin, I mean,
he's been very interesting to have around, but for the
most part he was he was separated from it for
a long time time, didn't want to get involved, felt

(01:05:03):
like his wife was going to dump him for the
negative attention they kept getting all that when he's talked
about that on and on. But so Jon Patterson, I
would have to say, well, you should probably get yourself
a copy of Christopher Murphy's book, Meet the Sad Squatch
or or Know the Sasquatch. There's two versions of it,

(01:05:27):
and they're both different. The first version was written with
Tom Steinberg and John Green, and it excluded all the
WU stuff. And it also excluded Peter Burn. I mean
John Green made that like a rule, like no Peter
Burn or I'm not doing it. And so when finally,

(01:05:51):
when Chris Murphy wanted to do his second edition. He
had to say to John, well, I'm going to rewrite
the thing, and he rewrote it so that he could
remove basically all of the writings of John Green and
restate it in his own way. But I mean, so

(01:06:11):
they're they're different, not necessarily contradicting each other or anything.
Mostly mostly it's a second edition to the first book,
but either one, it's going to give you a great
presentation of the quality uh pictorial history of the field

(01:06:34):
of Bigfoot from the beginning, including you know, Native Americans
and yetti, abominable snowmen and all of that. And no
one's done quite as thorough a job on it than
than the Christopher Murphy, although I mean their flaws. Like
he had in his book, he had the film site identified,

(01:06:56):
and I had to tell him, you know, you better
stop doing that because he just proved that it's wrong.
And he was going to go up in front of
the whole conference in Washington and gives this presentation. And
yet he said he was grateful he was able to
modify it in the last minute. But you know, you

(01:07:16):
had always google eers the images and stuff that were
not accurate. And anyway, he was close, but not close enough.
You know. So anyway, those are the three. I would
also recommend you know, read some skeptical books, like there
are good skeptical books like they might piss you off, right,

(01:07:39):
like the book Life in Times of a Legend, Bigfood
Life and Times of a Legend by Joshua Booze as
b u h s uh. This is a book that
when I first met money Made, I first met Matt Moneymaker.
He came in my store, wrapped this thing out of

(01:08:01):
the front window and stalked up to the desk and said,
holding the book up, you should burn this thing. I'm
just like, holy shit, it's that Moneymaker. But anyway, that
was a classic moment for me. That book is very
thorough and it's historical analysis and it's it's a critical book.

(01:08:25):
But if you I always say to the believers, you know,
if your belief can't withstand the skepticism of one author
or like me, a Facebook group leader or whatever, then
how is it going to ever stand up to me
with the very eye standards of real science? And I

(01:08:47):
always say for it to be science, for it to
be real, you have to have the highest standards. They'll
shoot you down. Otherwise you're going to be shot to
pieces if you can't to say what you think is real,
and that's the way it should be.

Speaker 7 (01:09:06):
Well, I'm going to put note to self right now.
I'm writing this down, UH, Vance and Steven best friends,
I because I appreciate every aspect you have just taken,
and uh, it sits well within the cockles of my heart.
That of your perspective sits very well with my perspective.

(01:09:31):
So thank you. I I greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
And if you want, come and join our Facebook group. Absolutely,
coalitions were critical thinking and big research.

Speaker 7 (01:09:43):
That's awesome. You know, that's awesome. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:09:47):
You can find it pretty easily. It's got a weird name.
We'll be careful. There's a couple of fake uh pages
of trolls have made.

Speaker 7 (01:09:58):
Trying to of course, that happens all the time, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
And also, you know, check out Bluff Creek projects. That's
what we've done, yeah, you know, between the film site
studies and the history of Bluff Creek in general and
the the UH current and trail camera stuff he's done,
and you know, lately we've been doing even more like

(01:10:24):
with the with the with the drones and the light
r and stuff. You could see it. It was on
expedition Bigfoot of all places. But but Rowdy, our guy,
our drone guy are he's a film expert of our group.
He did the the work with them, take their light,

(01:10:47):
our guy the very exact spot where we know now
that I mean Patterson films the Bigfoot, and we we
were able to show him this data from our survey
map and current actual objects on the ground still to

(01:11:09):
the state, and he determined that the subject in the
film was no more than six foot three in heights
and so that argument, I mean, I think he has been
shot down. We've been trying for years to get people
to stop saying it's seven foot or taller. Yeah, you know,

(01:11:31):
Bigfoot doesn't have to be seven feet tall. You know
it could be just that's how tall that big Foot was.

Speaker 7 (01:11:41):
Well, Corey Lekapoy from Canada. You know Canada, it's America's
top hat or America's largest national park, he commented too,
and giving you a double thumbs up. So thank you, Corey.
We appreciate you being here.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
Brother Corey has been around for a long time in
the cold.

Speaker 10 (01:12:04):
He has.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
That any of you people, even if you don't like
the skeptical attitude. Just go and look at it and
try to learn. I mean, I look at the believers
sites with an open mind, so why can't they be
open minded about skepticism?

Speaker 7 (01:12:21):
Absolutely, absolutely, Sean, we don't hear you what's going on.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
I had the damn mute button hit that's for you, mute,
but going on. So no, wonder you didn't hear any
anything I said. I said, that's a great place to
put a stamp on it. Yep, for the night, Steve,
thanks for joining us tonight. We appreciate it, man, Thank.

Speaker 7 (01:12:44):
You, Steven, Thank you appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:47):
Well, yeah, thank you guys. And I definitely ever need
someone on the show to give me a ring or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
Absolutely we got. We still have more to touch on
about uh more topics. We barely touched the service tonight here, folks. Yeah,
but that's Monday nights. Sometimes an hour just ain't enough, folks.
I'm Sean Forker, that's fans and has a bit Matt
arn Or, Stephen Stroyford on behaps of James Baker and
Henry May who aren't here. Give us those dulcet tones there.

Speaker 7 (01:13:13):
Vance you all be good or be good at it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
We'll see in two weeks. Folks, have great night.

Speaker 11 (01:13:22):
Maybe you've been listening to Sasquatch Experience. Please rate interview
where this podcast has been consumed.

Speaker 7 (01:13:35):
To share your.

Speaker 11 (01:13:36):
Experience, visit us on Facebook, our website, or email us
info at Sasquatchexperience dot com. Keep on squatching