Haunted New Jersey

Chris and Emma journey back into the backlogs, files, and stories of these United States with a return to the Haunted States series all about the state that has more gardens than anything else (we actually don't know if that's true or not): New Jersey.

You can follow Chris Stachiw @Casualty_Chris, Jess Byard @writerjessbyard, and the podcast @ScaryStoriesWT. Alex Malnack of Blondo provides the music for the podcast; that track is "Stay Here." The album artwork is provided by Maggie the Odd.

For more episodes of Scary Stories We Tell along with many more podcasts that are guaranteed to be your new favorite audio obsession, check out Weirding Way Media at weirdingwaymedia.com.

Episode Transcript

(00:46):
Hello, everyone, and welcome toScary Stories We Tell. I'm one of
your hosts, Christashio, and I'mjoined by one of the other hosts of
this show, though there seemed tobe more than just one at this point
because we're all over the place doingour own thing. Your friend and mine.
Hello, Hello, Hi, howare you? How are you?
How are you? I'm good,I'm good. It's been a minute since

(01:06):
we've done something that wasn't a SurrealTube episode together. We've been I wouldn't
say stuff, obviously, because there'snothing bad about it, but we've definitely
been in a circuit for a while. We have not done just a me
and you episode in quite some time, so if you've done this episode,
you know that we're not doing aSurreal Tube episode this time. We're going
to be talking a little bit aboutHaunted States, which is a thing that

(01:32):
Jess and I used to do,and I'm not saying Jess and I won't
do it again in the future,But the things we do on this show
aren't necessarily One person is expected toalways be there other than yours truly,
apparently, so I will always beyou have to be. You're contractually obligated
I guess so at this point.So yeah, So on this episode of

(01:53):
Scary Stories, we tell we're actuallygoing to be talking a little bit about
a state that, well, oneof the two of us in this episode
may or may not have a littlething that they know about it, because
Emma, you may or may notat one point in your life have lived
in New Jersey. I do,they have, and I and I do,

(02:13):
and I hope I don't have toforever. But fair, that's fair.
That's very fair. As I'm sureyou know. It is the most
densely populated state of all of thestates in the United States, and it
is third in income rank as well, so ladies and gentlemen, cost of
living, cost of living man,so stuff, that's fair. I mean,

(02:36):
only two more states are higher thanNew Jersey Massachusetts. And do you
want to guess the first one interms of income, the highest income in
the state, high median income?Is it not one of the two biggies,
It's It's it's in the northeast.Is a New York It's Mayland.
May Yeah. I knew that theywere high. I knew that they had

(02:57):
a high cost of living, butI didn't know that there were more than
or no, it's there. That'stheir income. That is there. That's
the income, right is third third. Yeah, Now, the median household
income in New Jersey is about sixtytwo thousand, so and that's not enough
to get It's not enough to getan apartment, that's for sure. The
median household income in New Jersey iseighty two thousand, which is a lot.

(03:19):
That's better. Yes, But yeah, we're gonna be talking about the
state of New Jersey, not aboutthe fucking income or any of that nonsense.
We're gonna be scary enough at itof itself, right, it's such
a populous state. No, we'regonna be talking a little bit about haunted
New Jersey, and not necessarily justhaunted things, but not just ghosts per
se. But you know the waywe do these episodes, if you've never

(03:42):
been on one of them before,which Emma hasn't, but m already knows
what's going to happen. But ifyou're listening and you don't know what this
is, We're gonna sit and talka little bit about some stories from the
state of New Jersey that are weird, spooky, strange, maybe true crime,
maybe not. I don't know whatEmma picked. I know what I
picked. I'm not giving away whatI picked by saying any of that,
because that's a pretty wide range ofthings. Yeah, I would more or

(04:04):
less guarantee that we're not gonna talkabout the Jersey Devil. I would assume
you didn't pick the Jersey Devil becauseyou live in Jersey, so you know
that South Jersey. I'm North Jersey, but I don't know nothing about it,
honestly. Okay, well, firstoff, you could learn by researching.
I don't know if you use thisas an opportunity, but I'm it

(04:24):
just seems like the obvious choice.I don't want to go obvious. That
was my thinking as well. It'slike that's the obvious choice. We're gonna
mention the Jersey Devil at some point. I don't think there's any way we
don't. But yes, ladies andgentlemen, we will not be talking about
the Jersey Devil anymore than just sayingif you know of the pine barrens of
New Jersey, you know of theJersey Devil, and it's a horse creature

(04:47):
that was the thirteenth born child ofa woman who said, and you know,
let it be the devil and adevil baby came out and it flew
away. Does that restore you know, it's one of the many derivations.
Yes, but I've even I meanagain, yes, that that is one
of the stories for the third admittedstate to the Union named after the state.

(05:08):
The Jersey Devil is a pretty wellknown thing. That Again, if
we were doing a episode on Pennsylvania, I don't think we would cover the
mothmat either. And when we coveredOhio, which the state that Pennsylvania borders
where the incident with the Mockman happenedin Point pleasant Is, Ohio, didn't
bring up Mothman in that episode.We didn't talk about him anymore. Then

(05:29):
we're gonna talk about the Jersey Devilhere. What I'm saying is we do
our fucking work here and we're notjust gonna go the Jersey Devil. Folks,
is you already know that this isn'tfor like, this show is not
necessarily for beginners. You didn't comehere without preconceived notions, and you have
to know the Jersey de So allof that aside to say, these stories
are not going to be the storiesthat you're gonna find by just going and

(05:51):
saying, what is the one mostfamous thing from the state, because the
Jersey Devil is it? So,Emma, I'll kick it to you first.
Since is the first time you're onone of these episodes. Did you
bring to the table for this HauntedState episode? All right, So I
want to do a little bit ofresearch to see what it was like.
Like I first was searching up urbanurban legends, which is how you know.

(06:13):
Of course immediately Jersey Devil does comeup. So I was looking for
things like kind of like around thatsimilar ballpark, trying to get something that
I think I could talk about forat least forty minutes. I landed on
Clinton Road in West Milford. Haveyou heard about Clinton Road? These all
sound like places in New Jersey,Milford, the township of Milford, Yeah,

(06:36):
West Milford township, I believe.I just that's like a thing county
something, township. Nobody says townshiparound these parts. I mean, I
live in a township. Not everytown is a township, but I live
in a township. Right, It'slike, what's the what's the term that
they use in New Orleans and LouisianaParish that's kind of their township term.

(06:58):
So I just love township. Thatis. You ask me the difference between
a town and a township, Icould not tell you. Yeah, I
don't, Yeah, I don't knowthat off the top of my head.
I'm sure there is it. Therehas to be a difference. So Clinton
Road in Milford Township, let's breakit down. Tell me all about it,
because on the face of it doesn'tsound immediately terrifying. So there are

(07:19):
a lot of really interesting things here, a lot of like I want to
say, it's more of a collectionof things than like a big incident.
So first of all, it wasinteresting enough that somebody made a movie about
it twenty nineteen. It's not avery highly rated movie, but there is

(07:39):
a movie called Clinton Road and itwas filmed I believe, like actually in
New Jersey, which is pretty cool. So the funny thing about Clinton Road,
So first things first, it's aroundten miles. It is a pretty
long, winding mountain ish road.A lot of roads up here closer to
the north, we don't have aton of street lights when you're getting into

(08:01):
some of the back roads. Andwhat this street is known very A couple
of things on the street is nofor but one of them is that there
are no lights. It is basicallymiles from what I understand. I haven't
driven on it myself, but itwouldn't be the only one. There are
a lot of roads up here thatare like that. Okay, so it's

(08:22):
like a there's like a country road, the country road. I don't know
Milford township. I don't know theMilford township, so I don't know.
So this is like, is thisrural suburban? What? What? What
would we consider this? So Ithink the majority of West Milford is more
suburban. But that being said,New Jersey has its fair share back roads,

(08:45):
and you would not know that therewas civilization nearby when you are on
one of these back roads. Soa lot of people have had different,
different interesting experiences here. I willsay I do think the scariest thing upon
like all of my research, ofall the different things I wanted to talk
about, there is one thing thatI think is objectively the scariest thing,

(09:05):
and that is that there is onetraffic light that you have to wait five
minutes for. It is literally dubbed. It has the record for being the
longest red light in America. Ifyou look up longest red light in America,
it is on this fucking road,I swear, and you personally find
it. Congratulations. I just haveto say, out of everything on the

(09:28):
list that I want to talk about, that is easily the scariest You heard
of the road in New Jersey thathas a five minute light horror? My
god? Right, this summer fromJason the Little Blue Mouse productions the longest
light in America? What do wecall? Like, do you know what
the name of the movie would bethis summer? Dead Stop? In her

(09:54):
return to horror movies, Amber heardin debt. There you go. That's
that's really good. Dead Stop.Yeah. The scariest part that you've really
set the bar high when you saidthe scariest part of this story is it's
a five minute long way. Imean, I think that's fucking terrifying.
Ho what about here? It's fairall right? So uh within uh,

(10:15):
you know the different amount of interestingthings that happen on this road. Uh,
there are things such as a sightingsof ghost, strange creatures as well
as gatherings of which is Satanists andeven unfortunately the ku Klux Klan. So
there's quite a bit that's happened onthis road. Uh. The first thing
that I thought was really interesting thatI wanted to touch on. So a

(10:39):
lot of people have claimed that whiledriving on this road they would see like
weird animals that were quite you know, not necessarily like this is not the
natural habitat, or that they kindof look like some sort of unidentifiable hybrid.
Some people have claimed to see monkeys, and so, of course course

(11:00):
that's already like how and why.Apparently back in back in the nineteen seventies,
Warner Brothers built a little like attractioncalled Jungle Habitat that had a Safari
like a Safari attraction within it,and apparently it contained over one thousand,

(11:20):
five hundred animals. It did notlast very long, and so the rumers
are is that a lot of animalswere left behind and escape and have made
Clinton Road their home, or atleast the area surrounding it. One thing
that I read that wait, thisis this is real? This is real.
I don't know, Oh my god, I don't know Warner Brothers,

(11:43):
I don't know if the sightings arereal. However, the Jungle Habitat was
a real place that they tried toopen in West Milford. Apparently, like
the opening was super successful and thenlike people immediately lost interest, like because
you know, something new and different, and then it lost its charm not

(12:03):
not too long after. I don'tthink it was open for more than a
few years, whether or not thereare truly escaped animals from what I've read,
uh, most of the animals,if not all of the animals,
were you know, sold off todifferent zoos or different collectors or menageries,
but apparently menageries which menagerie was hesold to, but after the park was

(12:30):
closed, apparently newspapers reported that severalanimal carcasses, including a whole ass elephant,
had been left there to decay.So I don't know if the claims
that all of the animals were soldoff was actually true, maybe the majority
of them, but I think it'sfair to pause it that maybe a few

(12:52):
of them escaped and started uh procreating around Clinton Road, making it their
home and making some weird ass hybrids. So have there been animals that have
been seen reports from people on theinternet, So take that for what you
will. Like I said, theyclaimed that they sold all the animals,

(13:13):
so if they did, obviously thenthat wouldn't be the case. And this
is just a rumor, But Ihaven't seen any proof specifically, some one
like specific one that people call outis apparently like an albino wolf dog hybrid.
Apparently it's something that's been spotted thereas well as as I said,
like monkeys have apparently been spotted,but I have yet to find evidence for

(13:39):
it. But I do think imaginejust abandoning this park and like people are
like coming to reclaim the land andthey just find like a fucking elephant carcass.
I thought's horrifying in it of itself. Pretty I think it's pretty fucking
insane, is so? I mean, I I don't know, what do
you think The likelihood is that theydidn't sell off all of it the animals

(14:00):
when they closed. Some might haveescaped. I think that's possible. I
mean sounds like some sort of likereally ramshackle bullshit thing. Anyways, And
what's surprising is you said Warner Brothers. So that's interesting. I think what's
interesting is that it probably has somelevel of truth. I mean, like
what were all these people seeing ifnot for maybe some I mean, look

(14:22):
like I don't know, like ifthese things were escaping, what's to say,
I don't know, it would bea real shame if something hadn't escaped,
because that would make I mean,I don't know, I don't know,
it makes for a good story ifnothing else. I think that there
there is the strong possibility that itwas simply a rumor, and then people
submitted stories online of you know,fake encounters, and it's all like people

(14:46):
didn't know that this place was thereand that it existed and that it was
Yeah, that's what's under wraps,Like it was a big attraction at the
time. I wouldn't doubt it ifthe sightings are are false, but I
don't want to discount the fact thatit's very likely that at least a few
animals escape. This does not seemlike something they poured a lot of money

(15:07):
into. It seemed like something thatwas thrown together as like just as like
a test to see if it wouldwork out. I guess for me,
the animals could have escaped when thepark was open, right, true too,
Yeah, I mean, I thinkif anything, this sounds like some
sort of like ramshackle bullshit. SoI don't know. I mean, I'm
assuming that there were probably reports thatpeople had of animals at the time this

(15:31):
place was open, and sure rumorsrun them up. But like those rumors
have to be based in something.And I'm sure some animals, small animals
did get out. Maybe big thingsdidn't escape, But that's not all we're
talking about. That Parcus definitely didn't, right, But like that, we're
not talking about like big animals.We're talking about like you did something,
could something have escaped and gotten outand therefore people are seeing it. You

(15:54):
know, ten twenty thirty years later, they're still seeing these animals roaming around.
Yeah, why not? I findthat not that hard to believe because
this doesn't sound like the most wellrun thing. Let's just put it that
way. And even the most wellrun zoos have animals escaping. Look at
the Dallas suit and they had toshoot a gorilla that escape. Look at
the Cleveland or Cincinnati where harambe youknow, I mean again, and someone

(16:18):
fell into the thing and they hadto shoot it. So even when they're
able to control everything, you can'tcontrol everything. So as Ian Malcolm once
said, you know, you know, life finds a way. If animals
want to escape from a zoo,they'll escape from a zoo. I do
think that most larger attractions in NorthJersey are don't really have safety prioritized.

(16:41):
Oh right, right, right?The what Action Park? Right? My
goodness, Well if we don't haveto spend time talking about that, because
I could talk about that forever.And I mean, what happened there,
honestly, is probably pretty terrifying andit probably is haunted all the accidents that
have happened there. But if youhaven't heard about Action Park, there's like

(17:03):
a whole documentary on it called classAction Park. And I think that you
guys could probably gleam what it's aboutjust from the title, right right.
But I mean that Johnny Knoxviill hada movie based off of it. I
did he Yeah, like a likea like where he plays like the owner
of the park. Yeah, it'sand it's fine, but yeah, I
mean Jersey, everybody love it here. I didn't know that New Jersey had

(17:27):
a Weird New Jersey website dedicated tosolely to New Jersey. Oh it absolutely
does, because I used to havea Weird Texas book when I was a
kid. But like it seems likeall of those are gone and Weird New
Jersey persisted as if it was theonly one to have ever existed. Because
it is weird here objectively and subjectively. Well, I think if it's objective,

(17:49):
it's like inherently also subjective. That'sfair. That's fair. I think
I do. I hold me tothat. I do love New Jersey.
I mean, you know, I'venever been to well though I have,
and I'm trying to think. Iguess Cropsy's not New Jersey. Cropsy's Staten
Island. So but that's you know, in the same area, right,
New York, New Jersey. Youguys order one and so anything else on

(18:11):
Clinton Road other than escaped animals,oh, I have way more. Oh
god, okay, I was,I was. I'm going from like least
crazy to most crazy. Oh good, So the least crazy is animals escaping
possibly from a zoo. Oh yeah, owned to buy Warner Brothers again,
Like to point this out, WarnerBrothers as in Warner Brothers right, as

(18:33):
in Warner Warner Brothers. Yeah.Yeah, that's fucking wild to me.
That's maybe the crazy. You neverheard of it too, Like I mean
obviously like it closed way before Iwas born, but like I feel like
that would have come up at somepoint, like oh, you remember that
old Warner Brothers Doungle West Milford thatnever came up, no trace of it.

(18:53):
I've never heard of it. Yeah, that's insane. I mean again,
I was probably trying to take advantageof the New New York traffic.
I'm assuming because that's West Milford hasgot to be near New York City.
Right, It's definitely closer than Iam to New York City. You can
probably take a train, boy.All right, So next, I want

(19:15):
to talk about Cross Castle on ClintonRoad. So in nineteen oh five,
a man named Richard Cross built acastle near a reservoir for his wife and
his three children. Not too manyyears after, Cross unfortunately died and the
family sold it off to the townof Newark back in like nineteen nineteen and

(19:38):
once like the town of Newark orCity of Newark, I don't know,
they're all the state of township ownship. Once it was seized by the state,
they wanted to repurpose it since thereservoir was right there, and so
they started stripping all of like theeverything that wasn't basically the stone walls.

(20:00):
They took all the doors and allthe knobs and all like the windows and
even the roof, and they repurposedit for other They sold it off to
like other contractors for building homes,which is quite interesting. So they basically
tore this thing down and all thatwas left where these was basically just like
the stone structure, the stone wallssurrounding it. And during the time that

(20:23):
this was all happening, it woundup becoming quite a hot spot for some
interesting local gatherings. You know,you have everything from like drunk college kids
like going for to like you knowparty all the way to Satanists and the
ku Klux Klan would take advantage ofthis. Despite it being owned by the

(20:45):
state at this point, nobody wasgoing to be there at night to tell
you couldn't be there. You know, this was before like you know,
security cameras are being used widespread andso like, it was really easy to
just like go fuck off into thewoods and party at this dilapidated strict castle.
But there were a lot of reallyinteresting like if you were like traveling

(21:10):
on this road, like it wasvery likely that you would see at night,
you would see like a lot ofthese really weird gatherings. A lot
of people claimed Satanism was practiced therebecause of things that were written on the
wall, things from like the Satanicyou know, biable, And now we're
getting into conjecture. And this iswhere I have a problem, because I

(21:30):
had There was a road down thestreet from heyhouse where I grew up in
rural North Texas where the Satanists route, and they were killing cats and they
were doing the thing with the bloodin the middle. Like you know what
I mean though, Like you knowwhat I mean? Yeah, you know,
I'm not trying to be dismissive,but like all of a sudden,
it went from like verifiable things toye, old bullshit is kind of what

(21:53):
it sounds like, right yeah.I think more than anything, the partying
makes the most sense. But collegekids always looking for somewhere to fuck off,
right literally, it just works mygo to party and get drunk where
no one will know them there.Well, yeah, let's just go to
the old Cross castle. They's stillgot balls. Kids who were horny and
drunk will look for any and everywhereto bang. Absolutely, yeah, an

(22:18):
abandoned thing in the middle of nowhereis as good a place as any to
get your rocks off. I'm surenot speaking from experience, because honest to
God, going into an abandoned castleto have sex with someone is literally the
setup for a horror movie, andI'm not going to put myself into that
position because I know what happens ifI put someone else into the position at

(22:38):
the same time I'm in a positionwith them, I will get murdered.
That's right, Oh, absolutely absolutely. It's interesting though when it comes like
the Satanism stuff. Apparently you knowpeople that were you know, hikers or
people traveling in the wood when theywould get close to cross Castle, some
people would report like having like hlike many many seizures, going mute,

(23:00):
leaving with bruises when they didn't gethit anywhere, like you know that the
basically demon type stay away from thisarea that you could think of, right,
But again, none of this soundsnew or like. This stuff is
just I'm always very suspect. Ican absolutely, yeah, understandably, And

(23:21):
unfortunately there isn't much of a wayto verify it now because after the state
caught wind of everything that was happeningsupposedly at cross Castle in the stone walls
that they had left up in nineteeneighty eight, they decided to demolish it.
And now it is only the foundation, so you can't even I mean,

(23:42):
you can visit the site of CrossCastle, but they basically put a
stop to whatever weird gatherings were happeningthere. Apparently the state laments the loss
though, which I think is interesting. It wasn't that historic. I mean,
it was the early nineteen hundred,so it's not that historic. I'm
surprised that this place was not likea like an insane asylum as well,

(24:07):
do you know what I mean?Like, yes, I was waiting for
that other shoe to drop, asit were, because again I heard it
a million times. I think probablybecause it was close to the reservoir.
That's why the state wanted to buyit out, like buy out the land,
and so I mean it makes sensethat they wanted to like utilize it
for more practical purposes. I thinkif it wasn't near a reservoir, they

(24:30):
might have kept the foundation up andconverted into like some sort of like mental
institution. Probably right, as it'sjust location, man, location, location,
location. Yeah. So, likeI said, I still got more
for you. Keep going. I'mlisten, I'm listening. I'm here,
I'm listening. So now we're kindof getting into a little bit more of
I would say, more of likethe ghost story territory so a few things

(24:56):
that happen on this road. Firstthing that I want mentioned, so our
good buddy Josh Bragg, actually posteda YouTube video years ago on the Clinton
Road. He had an experience onthe Clinton Road. So that's up on
YouTube. So if you look upa Haunting Season Josh Bragg Clinton Road,
it should come up. I'm onlygoing to paraphrase his story because I think

(25:19):
it was fascinating. So a lotof people report seeing a ghost truck,
and Josh is one of those peoplethat claimed to have an encounter. He
had gone to a bridge on ClintonRoad, which we're going to talk more
about in a bit. I'm goingto message him while I'm listening to you.

(25:41):
I'm gonna message him because I'm sureas if the shit is real.
I want to know if that wasreal or if he was just making shit
up for a fucking YouTube video.I need to know, is that a
real thing? Ask about the fuckingghost truck on Clinton. I was so
hype when I saw that it wasa Haunting Season episode. I was like,
yes, yes, he has hisnotification silenced. I'm going to notify

(26:03):
anyway. Oops, I went forit. Oops. Sleep like a sleep
just like he's two hours behind us. It's past midnight, not fast sleep,
he's a busy dude. No,he's two hours behind us. Yeah,
it's past midnight for me, whichsays forward. He's West Coast.
We had they live they live ona different time zone. If it's twelve

(26:27):
thirty for me, that means it'slike what like ten nine thirty brims sleep.
Yeah, Well he didn't respond,so I won't be able to give
you an answer to your question anything. Well, I'll know eventually, sorry
listeners, but I'll get somen outhopefully. But yeah, So apparently he
was suckered into going on to ClintonRoad. I believe he was the one

(26:51):
driving, but like his friends werelike all or like there was one friend
who was like, hey, likewe should go here. There's like creepy
things that happen on this road.I'll go, And so they do one
of the things. I'm going totalk about the other thing a little later
because I think it's potentially a littlebit more interesting. But this one was
basically like apparently, if you likepull up to the side of the road,

(27:12):
like near this bridge, which happensto be next to a curve in
the road referred to as dead Man'scurve. Of course, so we love
we love that. Of course.I was trying to find statistics of like
how many people have actually died onClinton Road, and I could not find
it. A lot of people claimthat, like a lot of people go
missing on Clinton Road, a lotof people have died driving on Clinton Road.

(27:34):
I could not find any like actuallike articles in regards to that.
I'm sure it's happened, uh everything. Yeah, but that's like saying I'm
sure that someone has crashed on someroad in my town. Like yes,
I'm probably right, but you knowwhat I mean, you know what I
mean. I wish I could tellyou if it was like a disproportional amount

(27:57):
of like some crazy I've seen peoplethrow out random numbers like two hundred people
have died, and I was like, where are you getting this road?
Right has tried to back it up. I could not find it. But
apparently a lot of people have diedon this road. That being said,
so if you like pull over andyou're in your car, and you like
turn off the car and like youwait, eventually you will see a ghost

(28:22):
of a truck barreling towards you,Like the headlights and all, and apparently
like it will like allegedly, somepeople claim that, like if it like
goes through like your car, likeyou'll suck out your life force and you'll
die. We love that. Somepeople say that, like you just yeah,
so like the truck will come likestraight towards you, like it will

(28:45):
try as if it were like tryingto run you off the road. And
so this happened allegedly to Josh,and he put the he'd like turn on
the car, how to put inreverse, how to like swerve off the
road to like dodge this fucking ghosttruck. I wish I knew how a

(29:06):
truck dies in order to make aghost. But then after that happened,
his friends are like, we shouldtry it again, and so they did,
and then it came from behind themand like the same fucking thing happened
and they had to like run offthe road. This poor car, This
poor car. I highly doubt itwas it was a proof for off roading

(29:27):
as much as they probably did.I want to know if ghost truck is
real. I want to know ifhe made up the story. Other people
have mentioned ghost truck, but Iwant to know if this actually happened.
And if Josh thinks it was anactual ghost or like just an actual or
if it was like a real truckand they were just on like the wrong
side of what do you think?I mean again, I'm more interested in

(29:51):
this story. I well, Imean, I don't know. I think
I think for me, this isone of those This is one of those
things where it's like it's a goodstory, right, like the way,
like if you listen to his Hauntingseason episode on it, I love the
way he tells stories. It wasmuch better than how I did. It
was very engaging, and sometimes hedoes just like to write, you know,

(30:14):
creepy stories. I can't tell ifhe was framing it as a true
story or if this was an actualexperience he had. Sure, I can
it's Josh. He's he's an upstadingcitizen, so I'm sure it's real.
Yeah, I'm sure it's real thoughhe's but I want to know on the
level, guy, But I wantto know he actually thought if it did

(30:36):
happen, I want to know whathe actually thought it was. Looking back
on it, that story to mein recording, so i'd be curious.
I'm curious now as well. Right, I gotta know if ghost truck is
real ghost truck? So what elseon Clinton wrote? Anything else? Or
is there more? I got twomore things on Ago oh I did?
Yeah, You're not even you're you'reyou're getting one this episode, but it's

(30:59):
like one with like eight different things. So it's kind of like I'm waiting
for the cryptids. I wanted towell, I mean, the Escaped Animals
is probably the closest we're getting tocryptids. I mean, then what that
may have yielded was people misidentifying normalanimals as cryptids. If anything. I
mean, when I hear albino wolfdog, I'm just is that just a
white wolf for like a husky dog? There are plenty of white dogs.

(31:25):
They're not necessarily l bino, Like, are you sure it wasn't wasn't just
a husky plenty sure? But soas I mentioned, so, there's this
bridge near dead Man's Curve, whichis also where Josh's story takes place.
But this one is, uh,this one I've heard from a lot of

(31:45):
different sources. This is referenced alot when talking about Clinton Road. This
is like the ghost story that peoplebring up the most. Now it's about
a little boy. We love alittle little boy ghost iconic truly. I
wish I could tell you exactly howhe died. I've seen a couple of

(32:08):
different like stories in regards to it. Some people say that he was sitting
on the bridge and he fell off. Some people say somebody pushed him somebody.
Some people say that he was hitby a car and he fell off
the bridge. A lot of alot of different stories. But regardless,
he somehow died on this bridge andallegedly fell into this river below. And

(32:34):
so the legend has its bridge doesn'thave a name as far as I know.
Oh, just if you look upghost Boy bridge check. Okay,
so that's it. Okay, gotcha. I don't know if that's I highly
doubt that's the official name of thebridge, But that's if you want to
know more about it, that's out. But the story goes that if you

(32:58):
stand on the bridge and you throwlike a penny or a quarter into the
river, the ghost boy will throwit back to you. I think that's
really fun. I think, likeif it's gonna be like something, I
think that's a fun experiment, likea little test to test of courage blow
stakes. Some people do say thatyou might feel like you're also getting pushed.

(33:22):
But for the most part, fromwhat I can tell, the spirit
seems relatively benevolent and he doesn't wantyour change interesting. And so Josh had
that experience as well in his storythat he told, and he said that
after they threw a quarter. Afterthey threw a quarter, they like got
back into like the their car andthen the quarter hit the roof of their

(33:44):
car or something. So that's athat's a strong arm. Okay, that
ghost has a strong arm. Iwas also watching a YouTube video. This
happened during the day of these liketwo people that were exploring on Clinton Road
and they were underneath, like basicunderneath the bridge, like looking at the
river. I don't know exactly whatthey were looking for, but they did

(34:05):
catch one thing on video during theday and that was literally like over like
the side of the bridge that mostpeople like throw stuff over. There was
like a PLoP in the water.And it's hard to tell if that was
like a fish or maybe somebody wasup there and they threw something, But
a lot of people were speculating inthe comments that like that like little splash

(34:27):
of water, it was like itlooked like something was thrown in and they
even called out, They were like, hey, is anybody up there?
And they didn't see anybody up therewho could have thrown something. It's possible
that it could have been a fish, but I didn't see many fish.
It's a it's a small river.It's more like it's more a kind to
a creek than a river. SoI don't know how many fish live in

(34:49):
in creeks that can that jump likethat. But I thought that was pretty
interesting. Some people say that,like perhaps it was reliving h you know,
the circumstances of the boy his death. Some like maybe that was the
boy throwing a quarter? Would youtest it? Would you go? Would
you test it? Josh Bragg saysthat we can't handle the truth. No,
he does it, He sure does. No in all caps, even

(35:14):
tell him, I sure as hellcan handle it. I live really close
to it, and I want toknow. Tell him I travel on fucking
Route twenty three all the goddamn time. Amma's right there, Emma, or
are you lying or not? I'mjust Josh Bragg. He doesn't this.
That man has a lying bone inhis body. I will say this one

(35:37):
road, which has its own Wikipediaentry, sure does have a lot of
stuff. I know. That's whyI chose it. I wanted there to
be like a lot of like littleThis one is I think, probably sillier
than what you're going to talk about. I thought it would be nice to
have a little bit of contrast someof it some of it's a little silk.
I guess I'm surprised you didn't dothe Watcher case in West. Oh,

(36:00):
but that's like so overdone. Theytake a whole like Netflix special on
it. Oh, those two thetwo ding dongs from well, those two
ding dongs from fucking BuzzFeed, right, Like, that's the Yeah, Netflix
special exists because of the two dingdongs from BuzzFeed. Yep, absolutely,
but case, I'm just kidding,speaking of silly. One last thing I

(36:22):
want to talk. So this isnot necessarily connected to Clinton Road specifically,
but it is something that people doon Clinton Road quite a bit. Here
we are. Remember early on whenI mentioned hush, Remember early on when
I mentioned that this road was roughlyten miles long. Sure, the ironic

(36:44):
part of that is that this roadis very popular for a type of ritual
called the eleven mile ritual. I'mgoing to tell you about this ritual.
I think this is I I honestlythink it's quite funny. There are a
lot of like demonic rituals that peopledo that like I wouldn't necessarily make fun
of or want to read into,because you never know what you're inviting when

(37:07):
you when you do like one ofthose like trending demonic rituals, like you
never quite know like what you're invitinginto your life. This one is not.
The purpose is not to invite ademon or to open a portal.
Allegedly, the purpose of this isto make a wish, and this is
a lot to go through to makea wish. It seems I'm gonna I'm

(37:30):
gonna read to you the ritual.Are you familiar with like supernatural like rituals,
because like this is a subgenre.We're talking magic with a k here
kind of I guess. I mean, I'm not from I'm not any more
familiar than anyone else would be.I have not searched it out to understand
it. No, but I amamenable and my ears are open. So,
uh, most rituals, I don'twant to say most rituals, but

(37:52):
this type of brand of ritual they'remainly like, uh, trending challenges,
like there are demonic rituals disguised aschallenges, and so it's like a test
of courage. Most of these thingsare framed as like a test of courage,
and like it'll be like cut offa lock of your hair and a

(38:13):
fingernail and place it in a jarand whisper satanic sayings over it and seal
it with wax, and like thenlight a fire and throw it in the
fire, and then you're opening aportal, like it would be. It's
like a step by step how todo something for a specific outcome. This
one is allegedly to make a wishI wanted to. There are YouTube videos

(38:34):
go lore of people doing this challengeon Clinton Road, specifically because apparently it
is considered one of the most hauntedroads in America. I part of me
sort of doubts that I think thatwhere that comes from is because of dead
Man's curve and the people think thatlike hundreds of people have died and there's
no essdence of But if you lookup eleven mile ritual Clinton, there are

(39:00):
so many videos. Most of themare I did it wrong on purpose,
which I also think is funny,but Basically the purpose of this is that
you follow these steps while you're drivingdown the road, and by the end
of it, if you do itcorrectly, you're able to make a wish,
and that wish is supposed to immediatelycome true. I think when it

(39:21):
comes to making a wish, Ithink I'd rather go to go the slow
and steady manifestation route because this ritualis ridiculous and the people doing it.
I was I do what I waswatching, Oh my god, this guy.
It was so clear that this guywas bullshitting's no like I gotta I

(39:47):
was. I was basically live commentingto you on as I was watching,
and I was like texting you soI was watching it this he was like,
oh my god, guys, thisshit's so fucking gary, Like that's
what he was doing. It waslike, that's a lie. That's an
actual lie, which was really funnyto be at one point, there's part

(40:09):
of the ritual mentions that you're goingto start like hearing voices and as shit,
you not, he edited it likea fucking whisper clip into them.
Was so clear to the of course, it was really funny. I hope
that there is at least one solid. You know you tuber out there that
like did it legitimately. I couldn'tquite tell if anybody actually took it seriously

(40:35):
or if they did it for views. But this ritual is something that you
don't necessarily have to do on ClintonRoad. Honestly, it sounds like it
would work better on a different roadbecause Clinton Road is only ten miles and
not eleven, and this is veryattached to those eleven miles. But I'm
going to read to you what theeleven mile ritual is and I want your
opinion on it. I want youto know. I want to know if
you think that this is worth itto make a wish. So requirements.

(41:01):
So, first of all, obviouslyyou need a vehicle and the ability to
operate it. Your ability to operatethe vehicle may be hampered if you take
I'm reading this alcohol with a caris a common choice, but it's not
the only option you might pick.A car is a common choice, you
say. The other requirement is adeep wish or desire. So basically,

(41:27):
something is supposed to happen at eachmile, and there are instructions on how
to react to those things as yougo. So step one is take a
moment. If you need it.You may stop the car if you wish,
proceed only when you are ready.Step two drive This is mile one.
If it gets cold, you mayturn your heater on. Step three
drive This is mile two. Ifyou haven't already turned the heater on,

(41:52):
that would be a good time todo so. If you do not,
you might regret it later. Sothis is where people in the videos would
start reporting like that suddenly got verycold in their car. Was, of
course, sure, sure? Stepfour again, sure sure? Step four
drive This is mile three. Ignoreany shadows in the trees, no matter
how human they may seem. Sowe're starting to take a little bit of

(42:15):
a turn here. Step five drive. This is mile four. Ignore any
voices you may hear, no matterhow human they may seem. This is
where people reportedly start hearing whispers.H Step six is drive. I love
how they all have to start withdrug. This is mile five. Ignore
the vanishing of the trees, thesudden appearance of a lake and the glowing

(42:36):
of the moon, nor the vanishingof the trees. They see the video
that I was watching, this onethat was so un serious. He was
like, goddess, guys, thetrees are stark gone. The trees were
like right there, the trees,the cloud chasing. It was at this
point in time, like, ohmy god, it was reef was really

(42:57):
funny. I'm gonna I want toshow you because I took screenshots. I'll
show you after because anyway. Stepseven drive this is mile six. Ignore
the returning of the trees, thedisappearance of the stars, and the flickering
of your headlights. Your radio turnson, ignore that too. Ignore it
no matter what it says, butdo not attempt to turn it off.

(43:19):
Step eight, Congratulations, you arehalfway done. Step nine drive This is
mile seven. Ignore again any voicesyou may hear, no matter how close
they may sound. Do not turnaround, even if the voices appear to
be coming from the backseat. Stepten drive This is mile eight. Slow
down, but do not stop.Break if your headlights flicker, but do
not stop. No matter how coldit gets. Do not stop no matter

(43:42):
who or what you might see.Do not stop. Step eleven drive this
is mile nine. Your vehicle maystall. Close your eyes. Attempt to
restart your vehicle. Do not openyour eyes no matter what you hear.
Do not open your eyes when yourvehicle starts, hit the gas as fast
as you can. When the mileis over, you may open your eyes.
Yes, that does imply that you'resupposed to close your eyes for a

(44:06):
mile while driving MS. I mean, how badly? How badly do you
want? Do you want this wish? I know? Step twelve, drive
this is mile ten. Do notlook in your rear view mirror. Step
thirteen, drive this is mile eleven. Your vehicle may lose power, but
continue to move let it. Stepfourteen. If you see a red light
ahead, close your eyes. Closethem tightly, cover them with your hands.

(44:30):
If you must cover your ears,if you can, make sure you
cannot see anything, no matter whatyou hear. Do not look, no
matter what you feel. Do notlook, no matter how hot it gets.
Do not look. When the powerreturns. Stop your vehicle, open
your eyes, take a moment,take a breath, and drive, receiving
your reward. Drive until the roaddead ends. Stop, relax, Close

(44:51):
your eyes, and imagine your deepestdesire, even if it has changed from
what it was when you began yourjourney. Imagine it all the same changes
in all. Imagine not simply desiringit, but pause sessing it. Open
your eyes. If your desire wasan object, check your trunk if it
is smaller than that, check yourback seat. If it is smaller than
that, check your pockets. Ifyour desire was non material, return to
your life and check there it doesnot appear. If it does not appear,

(45:14):
immediately, wait, be patient,it will come. Do you think
that's worth it? I mean,I didn't hear about any blood sacrifices,
I know, but there's something aboutclose your eyes and don't open them until
the bial is over. Really,god, whether if you like? Scroll
down there are comments where it's like, I'm getting my license next week,
I'm going to try this markets.I mean, the scariest thing about this

(45:37):
is people following this thing and thenrunning off the side of a fucking but
I mean I feel like, ultimatelythese like you kind of already mentioned,
it's like a rite of passage thing, right, More than anything. I
don't I as somebody who believes inmanifestation, this this is such a round
about obnoxious weight. Yeah, butit's not surprising though at all. I

(46:00):
feel like, I mean, it'sone of those things where you're again like
you're not actually expecting anything, butby going and doing it, your part
of it. I just find itfascinating that so many people choose to do
as on Clinton Road. And oneof the YouTubers I was watching claimed that
the road was hundreds of miles longand literally a few google and it says
time. I love it. Ilove that I discovered this subset of videos

(46:24):
while doing my research, like literallyresearching, like what has happened on this
road? And like what are theghost story is about this road and what
are people's experiences? And then there'sthis, which is like a whole subgenre
of YouTube challenge. Like there aresome like actually scary like rituals out there,

(46:44):
Like if you read these like stepby step rituals, some of them,
if not most of them, areextremely unsettling. This one is very
silly to me. I you know, I hope people got their wish,
but to what end? Fun?To what end did they get anything?
I like, if they got anythingat all. I wish to not crash
my car while closing my eyes onmile eight or whatever. I a wonder.

(47:07):
Closing your eyes while driving is likeliterally, let you go, what
was it? Uh? Or isit mile nine? Yeah? So your
vehicle may stall and then you closeyour eyes. You attempt to restart it.
Do not open your eyes. Nomatter what you hear blah blah blah,
your vehicle starts, hit the gasas fast as you can. When

(47:29):
the mile is over, you mayopen your eyes. So hit the hit
the fucking gas, pedal to itslevet. But keep those eyes closed on
a winding mountain, no fucking way. I so that's why most of the
videos on YouTube are like breaking allthe rules gone wrong, because who wants
to ballow this? Wow? Kindof yeah, id of fucking satist wrote

(47:52):
this. I guess I wonder,uh, I wonder how many people have
done it enough enough that it's allover YouTube. That's fair, I mean
weird, New Jersey has an entireissue devoted to Clinton Road. It's pretty
cool. There's a lot of stuffhere. I really enjoyed researching this.
I had a lot of fun,and there was a lot of really interesting

(48:14):
facts about a road that's honestly notthat far from me. Like I could
if I wanted to, I couldget there pretty easily. It would take
a little time, but I couldget there real easy. Like, I
think that's really funny. I'm assomebody who lives already in bubble fuck nowhere
in the mountains. Half of ourroads are basically like that anyway, right
whenever, Like people would come andvisit, especially like college friends would come

(48:37):
and visit, and they'd like driveover and be like dark because it was
like winter or something, and theycomment on like how we have like no
street lets you want every like afew miles. So you're just sitting here
thinking to yourself, like this isjust another road, Like I am,
yeah, that's fair. I likewho I'm with. The dude was like
the trees. It's like, yeah, dude, the trees. There was
some it was so delightful. Partof wants to pause recording just like I

(49:01):
can show you parts of this stupidI feel like you're enjoying clowning on this
person more than a listen. Isit? It's cloud chasing content? It
so clearly is yea, which II was like talking to my wife about
this recently. Mike from charm CityParanormal and I kind of touched on it.

(49:22):
The cloud chasing paranormal times are herefor the foreseeable future, and it
sucks because there are so many peoplethat are making paranormal content that are like
not remotely serious and they're taking awayfrom other people. Are like, like
I said with that with the onevideo that I did watch, that one

(49:43):
had three point eight million views.This was and this is somebody with like
over like a couple of million subscribers, and like the comments were like,
haha, this was so funny.Like the comments were taking it very seriously.
Did you see the red light behindhim at timestamp? Look like demon
eyes? Or like did you hearthat scream? And I'm just this is

(50:06):
like the most un serious Chris.This is the most unseerious video I've watched
a long time, I believe,But I just I don't know if it
was purposefully unseerious and he just knewthat, like he could get away with
it, or like if he thoughtthat it was a good performance. I'm
not, like, I don't Idon't want to like rag on this person.

(50:28):
But it was objectively very silly.It was just a very I have
known nothing of his other content.This video was very silly. That's fair.
I'm not going to shout him outbecause he has plenty of views.
Honestly, he should shout us out, guess. But anyway, that's why
I got a Clinton road. SoI found a couple things I which,

(50:52):
for one, well you know,I mean again I I don't know,
So I don't know how much youknow about Sussex County, but in Sussex
County at one point, and againI'm not going to go too much into
this because it's more just a weirdthing. Camp Norland in Sussex County and

(51:14):
over New Jersey World War two,uh huh was essentially best I can tell,
a place for Nazi sympathizers to gather, oh lovely in Sussex County,
New Jersey. Wow, including aman known as Fritz Kuhn who would be
named the American Fura. So justa bird piece of information. Again,

(51:37):
that's more of a history thing,less a like weird thing. So this
was also the place where the AmericanNazi Party call him that or these whatever
they were claiming to be. Theyinvited the Klan at one point to what
is it what the ku Klux Klan? I know the Klan. Yeah,
that the Klan showed up and theyhad a big, nice, big rally

(52:00):
together with the klu Klux Klan inSussex County and over New Jersey. So
I just wanted to put that outthere for you, since you know,
Sussex County is probably near and dearto everybody's heart, at least if you
live in a certain part of NewJersey. However, all of that you're
dear to mine. I'm looking uphow close Endover is as I know it.
I just don't know how close itis. So for me, I

(52:22):
wanted to bring up two things.One thing that we've kind of already talked
about and another thing that I feellike is just worth mentioning me. It's
pretty close, I figured, Ifigured. So the first thing I want
to mention is just kind of againin passing because it's never been captured on
film, no footage of it exists. But I would be remiss if I
didn't mention in Lake Hoptacong Hoppy,which is New Jersey's answer to NeSSI,

(52:45):
which your face makes me think you'veheard of this one. While I was
researching, it came up. Ididn't look too far in it, but
the name came up. I sawlike one little blurb and I was like,
I don't know if that's enough totalk about, and so I skipped
it. But I'm glad you broughtit up because I wanted to because I
was like, this sounds adorable.So yeah, the Lake hopto Kong Sea

(53:07):
Serpent, as it was referred toin an article from the Lake Hoptokong Angler
as it's called, was a creaturethat had the head of a Saint Bernard
and the body of a snake,and it was sighted near like hopto Kong?
Is that just the dragon from neverEnding Story? Eighteen ninety four though,

(53:28):
so maybe not the never Ending Story? But the man who sighted the
creature claimed that he hid it inthe head with a bullet, a thirty
eight caliber bullet, and that thatbullet just rolled off of the creature's head,
and that it was forty feet inlength and it was as thick as
a man's leg. So it's prettybig. Is that's it's prit sizeable?

(53:49):
Are we talking? Kaffer? Wetalk and thigh with I don't know,
probably like I don't know, maybelike in between I would think, like
you know, think enough, youknow, I don't know, like you
know, like a solid like eightinch diameter, like a calm down solid
eight inches. I'm just saying I'mtrying to get a visual here. Yeah,

(54:10):
I'm helping I'm helping build a visualfor our listeners. I'm gonna guess
perhaps around the size of a smallsmall like the width of a small birthday
cake. That's kind of it's theysaid, you know, the thickness of
a man's legs. So again,yeah, exactly exactly, but yeah,
you know again there, like youmentioned, there isn't a whole lot about

(54:30):
it other than it's seemingly friendly.It exists in this lake, nobody has
ever gotten a picture of it orand his name is Hoppy, right,
I love it, I love it. Yeah, you know, it's it's
just another story of a creature inthe lake. And you know, there
are so many lakes in this countrythat have creatures in them. Supposedly Lockness

(54:54):
is just the most famous. Butyeah, I mean Lake Hopta Kong has
Hoppy, Okapolgo has you know.I mean again, every every single one
that's a big enough lake has sightingsof something unexplained in it, and sometimes
it gets a name, sometimes itdoesn't. So Lake Hopta Kon has Hoppy,
like you mentioned, and you know, love it. Maybe it is

(55:15):
something, and maybe it's just aboa constrictor that supposedly also lives in the
lake. Maybe it's a dog boaconstrictor hybrid from the escaped zoos. Yeah,
there is supposedly at one point aboa constrictor slithered into the lake at

(55:35):
one point. It would seem theykeep mentioning it in this one of the
articles I read about, So Idon't know. I mean, maybe it's
a boa constrictor. Papola constrictors don'thave the head of a Saint Bernard.
So no. Hey, a lotof people call snakes long puppies. Wow.
Who calls the mass mainly millennials?Okay, of course. So the

(55:59):
story I did want to talk alittle bit about, and you've kind of
already mentioned it. It's something thatI kind of want to bring up because
it allows me to tie into somethingI do want to talk about along with
talking about spooky stuff, is thestory of the Black Doctor. And so
the Black Doctor was coincidentally an AfricanAmerican man by the name of James Still,

(56:20):
who was a doctor who, afterbeing told he could not practice medicine
because of his race in the nineteenthcentury, he went Where where did he
go? Emma, the most desolateplace in New Jersey, not Hoboken,
the Pine Barons. He went tothe Pine Barons to study medicine. Some
stories say he went to study withthe local Indians. Some stories just say

(56:40):
he went because again seclusion. Hewent into the middle of the woods to
study medicine, as you would do, I guess if you were a Frican
American man who wanted to be inthe pine barons studying medicine. Of course,
as some of the versions of thestory go, he was lynched,
he was murdered, he was killed, he dies in every version of the
story. Well that's depressing unless it'sthe story where it's the reality of what

(57:05):
happened, and we'll get to thereality what happened. But the story goes
he was killed because people found outthat he was continuing to do the thing
that he was run out of townfor. Okay, So this story sounds
eerily similar to a story that Jessand I talked about on the inaugural episode
this show, which was the goatMan Bridge, which is in Texas.
True, I know about the goatMan Bridge, right, This is that

(57:27):
exact same level nonsense because for me, and you know, again, I'm
friends with Becky Vickers, and Iknow what she believes about the goat Man
Bridge. But I think unfortunately Forme, my feelings on the goat Man
Bridge have always been it's probably notanything. I think it's a lot of
conjecture and it sounds like a goodstory. But Old Alton Bridge sounds just

(57:50):
like the Black Doctor story, whichis someone of another race died somewhere and
because of them dying in that place, it is there then for haunted or
the and you know, and inthis case with the Black Doctor, James
still is supposedly helpful to people strandedin the pine barrens, so he is
a positive force as opposed to theOld Alton Bridge otherwise, not his goat

(58:14):
Man Bridge, which has a goatman that stalks the bridge. And you
know bagans went to the bridge andgot thrown twenty five feet or some you
know, some fucking nonsense. Butagain I see far as I know,
Shane mcday from bus Feed unself claimedthe bridge because the goat mand didn't challenge
him, and now it's his bridge, right and I remember they went there.
Look, and you know friend ofthe podcast Candice, her family used

(58:35):
to own the land that old AltonBridge was on. Again, Yeah,
and they had to deal with peopleconstantly fucking trespassing on their land, So
there you go. I mean again, like those are the things nobody talks
about, because again, it's greatto chase fucking clout on the internet,
which there are plenty of videos ofpeople clout chasing Old Alton Bridge, including

(58:58):
again, there are plenty of theselike YouTubers who all of a sudden are
doing the content that we've been doingfor years now and pretending like, all
of a sudden, they've been doingit this whole time, and it always
comes off as pandering, and italways comes off as like if they if
they weren't in front of the camera, they'd probably be laughing about how fucking
stupid it all is and not actuallytaking it seriously. And goat Man Bridge

(59:20):
is a symptom of that in alot of ways. And this story of
the Black Doctor, it's funny becausethe actual story of the real person,
doctor James Still, who has hisown Wikipedia entry, who was the brother
of William Still who wrote the bookThe Underground Railroad, it's a much more
interesting story. But again it's nota story of a man who went into
the pine barrens to practice medicine andthen was lynched because of it. You

(59:43):
know, he was a doctor hewas an herbalist. He did something with
his life that made a difference,and his life has been more or less
for a lot of people. Boileddown to he was a black doctor who
white people didn't like him practicing medicine, so he died for it, and
then he's a ghost that helped people. And I wanted to bring this up

(01:00:04):
because a, it's not really astory of being of you know, horror
in the way that we think aboutit. But what's horrifying about this story
is there are so many of theseplaces around our country that have these like
concocted backstories that all sound the same. And what's weird to me is like
it's all so fucking lazy, right, like shockingly lazy, Like, Oh,

(01:00:25):
he's black, and therefore him beingblack is the reason he gets murdered,
and therefore now we have the angryghost that or in this case,
I guess the helpful ghost, whichin and of itself, I sect that
to the helpful black ghost of ablack doctor healthy. Yeah, right,
like, and that's my point.Like again, like I'm not trying to

(01:00:45):
be preachy in this episode, butI'm more trying to get at the idea
of we as human beings have thisweird shared complex of like the ghost of
someone comes back to either torment orhelp. But it's always these like it's
all always these weirdo stories in theseweirdo places that other than the fact that
someone invented this story, like thegoat Man Bridge doesn't have anything. I'm

(01:01:07):
pretty sure it's just a weird bridgein the middle of nowhere that got used
for a while for something and wasn'tbeing used anymore. But it definitely diverted
attention away from the real problems inDenton, Texas, where there were actual
crimes against Africas taking place. Ibelieve of memory serves something about some African
American businesses being burned down or businessis catching on fire by accident and being

(01:01:30):
blamed by on African Americans, ifmemory serves right. And so this is
that same thing of like, well, okay, this guy doesn't have any
actual interesting story. He was justknown as the Black Doctor of the Pines,
like, but then it becomes theBlack Doctor and he was lynched and
it's like now he's a help.It's like whoa, Like it's weird and
it's just this weird thing that alwayscomes up and that's why I mentioned it

(01:01:53):
when you were talking about the thingon Clinton Road of like, and then
it's the Satanists and then they're committingthe blood, and it's like that same
thing is like in this story too, of like it's the same reoccurring theme.
And it's just very weird because again, like it's a horror of a
different kind, which is using horrorto mask real societal problems that were existing

(01:02:13):
at the time that nobody wanted totalk about. So it's like a weird
sidestep. And for why, right, because what is the purpose of it?
Like what are you trying to achieve? I guess they thought it would
be sensational enough. It sounds fresh. I guess like maybe that like I'm
trying to figure out like what wouldbe like why that story specifically, why

(01:02:37):
this person specifically if you're saying that, like none of this at all even
really happened. No, he diedof a stroke in eighteen eighty two and
was buried in a in a NewJersey cemetery in Mount Laurel, So yeah,
no, like none of none ofthis actually happened. It's very weird
because again, like I take areal person if you're going to do a
made up story, why choose areal human and that person after that real

(01:03:01):
person's name, especially that person whohas like an actual documented death right and
was like a self taught doctor too, like a self taught herbalist, which
is completely overrides everything. Like,imagine, that's what your legacy is,
so like made up, dumb storythat has to be clarified every time your

(01:03:22):
name is Yeah, it's wild tomake. I thought, that's frustrating for
the family. Well, and again, like the Jersey Devil is what it
is. You know, it's afolklore story of a different variety. But
again, like it's not covering upanything, it's just explaining why the pine
barrens feel so barren. It's becauseit's a fucking fucking forest in New Jersey

(01:03:43):
that people are actively avoiding. Ofcourse, it's going to be scary because
that's the point of a forest inthe middle of nowhere. You know,
it's scary because it's isolated, beingisolated and remote. Is I don't know,
like that's scary in and of itself. You don't have to oh yeah
much, just you have to domuch to scare people when you're in the
middle of nowhere at nighttime, youknow, and then owl can seem like

(01:04:05):
a Jersey devil. Not saying that'swhat it is, but I'm just saying
it's easy to get misinformed easily whenyou're already in a highly suggestible state.
I mean that just comes from Ifeel like I used I don't know if
I've probably said this in like tendifferent episodes, but it comes back to,
you know, evolution and what we'retrained for. Like what has been

(01:04:25):
like bred into us from you know, centuries ago, and that was at
night, we had to be morevigilant of our surroundings to protect ourselves,
and in doing so, we areon high alert and we are constantly looking
for faces or movement in the darkbecause that being prepared for those things helped
us survive. And so the peoplethat were moral er at night, the

(01:04:49):
people that were able to spot morepotential faces in the darkness, those are
the people that survived and you know, lived on to have kids and pass
on those tendencies, and it's hardwiredinto us. And like I'm sure there
are plenty of people out there wherethat genes sort of passed them over.
That happens all the time. Butlike the majority of the human race as

(01:05:12):
a whole. We are hardwired tobe scared of the dark because the dark
is where is how we were mostvulnerable during a time where literally we only
had like ourselves and the people aroundus to protect us from very real threats
when we were still prey. Like, even though that's not really that big

(01:05:33):
of an issue for us anymore,I think doing that, but now being
in the wilderness really triggers that forpeople, because like that's where like potential
potential threats are. I mean,like it's here, it's bears or you
know, like like mountain lions,like those were real threats. And then
on top of that, it's allof the ghost stories and all of the

(01:05:57):
all of the true crime you knowof people said on I've read a lot
for like Clinton Road that like alot of like it said that like a
lot of murderers would droptoms there becauseit was so remote, and like when
you hear shit like that over andover and over again. On top of
that instinct that's already hardwired into ourDNA, of course we're going to be

(01:06:17):
afraid of the dark. Of coursewe're going to be paranoid and beyond high
alert. If I was doing thatfucking eleven mile ritual ten mile road,
I would also be probably pretty spookedif I was doing that alone in the
dark, right, I mean,that's what I mean. I'm making fun
of it. I'm making fun ofit because of how that video, just

(01:06:38):
because of how the video was andlike how how unseerious it was. But
I am the first to admit thatlike dumb shit will scare me. I'm
not always the easiest to scare,like in the Wall when it comes like
a horror movie, but I jumpscary easy, and afterwards I am very
paranoid. But like I have noadmitting that I couldn't do half these like

(01:07:00):
fucking YouTube challenges that there's so manyfucking people do. There are a lot
of brave people out there that arewilling to test test the faiths. I
am not one of them, butI love reading and watching them. Well.
And I mean again, like Isaid, like there's some of it's
I don't want to rag on cloudchasers too much, but tell me in
a year if you're so interested inmaking paranormal supernatural content, and we'll see.

(01:07:25):
So that's the enjoy the trend,yeah, right, exactly and yeah,
so so yeah, I don't know, and New Jersey's an interesting place.
My stories kind of went in adifferent direction neestly, but the silly
Yeah, I liked where you went, I think more just because you had
kind of you had it kept buildingon its Yeah, I love more.
I read about it, like Ipicked this one specifically because so much was

(01:07:49):
going on at this one location,like you know, the same way like
if you read about like a hauntedyou know, prison, and it's like,
well this person and you know,killed this person, but then in
this cell, this security guard beatthis prisoner to death. Like it's always
it's more than one incidents, likemental institutions. Like when you hear the

(01:08:13):
stories of like why they're haunted,it's usually if it you knowless, if
it's like a one person home,it's usually multiple stories. And like touching
on all of those different instances andall of those different potentially paranormal experiences that
all happen in this one location,I think really builds on the lore of

(01:08:34):
it as a whole and makes itmore interesting. I think Clinton Road as
a whole is a little silly.I think it's I think because it's just
an isolated road with no street lights, surrounded by forest right there up against
the sides of the road. Yeah, it's screampy at night. Absolutely,

(01:08:54):
And because of that it's been labeledas this is this big scary road and
a lot has come from that.Then, whether or not like the story,
like Josh's story is true, whichapparently we can't handle. Allegedly we
can't handle knowing whether or not it'strue. He says he wants to come
on at some point and tell us, Oh, I to tell him right

(01:09:15):
the fuck now, I reserve theright. I reserve the right if he
wants to come on and tell ushe can. I want to follow up.
I listen, do you lest youforget? The way I started in
podcasts was picking apart my best friend'sparanormal experiences and sapiritual experiences and interviewing the

(01:09:35):
shit out of him to get tothe bottom of it. That is,
that's where my brain goes. AsI love spirituality. I've grown a lot
spiritually in the in the past coupleof years, and I've really enjoyed that
journey and I'm open. I'm muchmore open minded than I was. That
being said, just because I thinkthat there are potentially things out there that

(01:09:56):
we can't explain doesn't mean that everyexperience is automatically true. I want to
know more well, And you know, Josh said he has more to tell,
so I mean, yeah, we'llhave him on to talk more in
depth about his experiences in New Jersey. But I think this was I think
this was fun. I hope youhad a good time. I absolutely did.

(01:10:17):
Yeah, it's a fun state.We have some things weird, so
it's an interesting place. I reallydo love the fact that like the North
and the South like are just sovastly different from one another. It's all
grouped into one. And how peoplecan have even like from like middle of

(01:10:39):
Jersey versus like North Jersey, youknow, where it just slowly turns into
more bubblefuck nowhere, And how likeunsettling that is for people that are in
more of like the suburban urban areas. It's a very it's a very diverse
state. The state with the JerseyDevil. I mean it's the state where
the Jersey Devil lives in the pinebarrens, but it's also the state where
there are cities. So it's likeWyoming where there's like a cool place,

(01:11:03):
you know, like it's the firstmost populous state in the United States.
We've got a lot going on,not being said, I'm kind of bored
of it, not being listen.I want them eventually. I've been here
a whole life. I could usea change of scenery as long as it's
still pretty, that's valid. Soyeah, so so on that note,
the next time we do one ofthese who knows what state will do,

(01:11:24):
we kind of just tend to gowhy by the seat of our pants,
New Jersey for no specific reason.Wink wink. So until the next time
you hear Emma and I, itmay just be Emma and I, or
maybe Emma and Dustin and I.I don't know. You can find us
at weirdingwaymedia dot com as the hostof Scary Stories We Tell, and if
you listen to other shows in thenetwork, you probably heard the ad for
this show as well, which featuresmy voice and Emma's voice and Dustin's voice

(01:11:46):
and Jess's voice and Maggie's voice.So yeah, all of our voices are
there and you can hear all ofthem mixed together for your listening pleasure at
weirdingwaymedia dot com and on subsequent weirdingWay Media shows. As for this show,
Scary Stories, we tell Scary StoriesWTN on social media like rate and
review the show wherever you get it. Maggie, Dustin and Alex big thanks

(01:12:06):
to the three of you for thecreative things that you've done for the show
that we continue to use on everyepisode. And as always, we'll let
our good friend, the former hostof Sidings, mister Tim White, lead
us out. No mystery is closedto an open mind.