Ep. 80 - Einstein: The Man and His Mind with Dr. Gary Berger, MD

This episode is becoming one of my favourite recordings. I think the reason is because, through this discussion with Dr. Berger, I feel like I've gotten to know Albert Einstein like I never have before. Or maybe it's because as a result of my new connection to Gary, I am now the proud recipient of his brilliant book! As I descibe it, it's as much a work of art as it is a pictorial biogrpahy of Einstein.

As a science teacher, I subscribe to the theory that the work of a scientist becomes better if I know something about the scientist. It's like knowing the personal side of your favourite singer or football player. With a backstory, I am far more likley to enjoy watching the game or listening to the song.

Students today need this sort of connection. They're connected in every other aspect of their lives, so let's make learning science come alive by connecting them to people like Albert Einstein. Just think of the names we mention all the time: Stephen Hawking, Isaac Newton, Galileo...but who were these people and what motivated them? I make it my goal to teach these aspects of science to my students and I hope you do too.

Here is a link to purchase Gary's book:
https://www.amazon.ca/Einstein-Man-Mind-Hanoch-Gutfreund/dp/8862087845/

And for interest sake and because all proceeds from the book are being donated to the
Albert Einstein Archives at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, here is a link to that as well:
http://www.albert-einstein.org

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I made my first rather childish experimentsin thinking that had a direct bearing on
the special theory. If a personcould run after a light wave with the
same speed as light, he wouldhave a wave arrangement that would be completely
independent of time. Of course,such a thing as impossible. That's why
he wasn't so popular with his professors. He was spending his time in at

(00:24):
thinking of these things instead of payingattention to his classes. Welcome back to
another episode of Science three sixty.This is Tim Stevenson, your host,
and on this episode I have doctorGary Berger, the author of a brilliant
book entitled Einstein, the Man andHis Mind. This podcast is a proud

(01:07):
member of the Teach Better podcast Network, Better Today, Better Tomorrow, and
a podcast to get you there.Explore more podcasts at www dot Teach Better
podcastnetwork dot com. Now let's getonto the episode. Doctor Gary Berger is
a physician. He's not a physicist, he's not a historian, but he's

(01:27):
always been fascinated by Albert Einstein.Einstein's name was familiar to doctor Berger in
childhood, as it was to allof his friends. It was synonymous with
genius. He knew Einstein made importantdiscoveries about the universe that had something to
do with space and time. Hefirst learned about special relativity in college,
Yet having other interests, he putthe subject out of his mind, but

(01:49):
it must have lingered, because yearslater it seemed important to revisit these strange
concepts of time slowing down and lengthscontracting. Doctor Berger read and re read
Einstein's paper on the Electrodynamics of MovingBodies, which presented the special theory of
relativity. He read discussions about thatfamous paper, and articles and books by
and about Einstein, and watched allthe videos about him that he could find.

(02:14):
The more he learned, the morefascinated he became with how Einstein could
recognize what no one else had beforeabout the nature of the universe. Eventually,
he began collecting photographs and documents ofthe great scientist. The photos gave
him the feeling of a personal connectionto Albert Einstein, the real living man,
almost as if he knew him.The collection has now been assembled into

(02:37):
a brilliant and visual biography, allowingthe reader to understand Einstein in an engaging
way. It includes one hundred andfifty full page images that cover all the
decades of Einstein's life, some ofwhich have never been seen before. During
weekends in his late teens, doctorBerger frequented the home of physicist Max Herzberger,
who had been Einstein's friend. Onhis living room was a beautiful portrait

(03:00):
photograph of Einstein. Perhaps that imagewas the seed that led decades later to
this collection and now this book,Einstein, The Man and his Mind.
As you listen to this episode,I hope you're able to pick up examples
of the person that Albert Einstein was. This episode is not here to explain
the theory of relativity or the relationshipbetween mass and energy. No, this

(03:23):
episode is recorded with doctor Berger tohelp you the teacher, get to know
on a personal level, one ofthe most extraordinary individuals who ever lived,
Albert Einstein. Here's my discussion withdoctor Garry Berger. Yeah, when I
was in high school, we youknow, as I remember, at the

(03:46):
physics course, it was all classicalphysics. I never heard about relativity or
quantum mechanics in high school. Andwhen I went to college, you know,
I knew already. I was ona pre med program, so I
took a history of science course andthat's the closest I got and when they

(04:10):
got up to talking about relativity,and I could still remember, you know,
trying to envision rods or rulers drankingand clock slowing down, and I
couldn't really grasp it. You know, I thought, well, okay,
maybe that's the theory, but Idon't really see how that can happen,

(04:32):
and I'm more or less forgot aboutit. And then many years later,
I, you know, read abook about Einstein and I started thinking,
you know, I'd really like tounderstand what these concepts are. So that's
how I got into it. ButI'm not a you know, I have

(04:53):
sort of a non a non scientist'sunderstanding. I think of Albert Einstein,
and I feel like over the yearsthat I've been reading and watching videos and
you know, started collecting materials,I feel like I've come to know,

(05:14):
you know, who he was andbasically the amazing things that he accomplished in
his lifetime. But you know,not based on you know, the detailed
mathematics. It's more conceptual. Well, it's the side of Einstein that's never
really dealt with. I mean,it was said, wasn't it said of

(05:36):
Einstein that at the time there wasmaybe five or six people globally who could
even carry on a conversation with himso free. Yeah, there's a you
know story sort of. I guessit's in a pop apocryphal story. I
don't know if it's literally true,but a somebody, a reporter was talking

(05:58):
to Addington and he said, youknow, Professor Addington, I understand that
you're one of three people who understandsthe theory of relativity. And Eddington sort
of hesitated, didn't say anything,and the interviewer said to him, you
know, doctor Eddington, is there'ssomething wrong? And Eddie to Moses,

(06:20):
said I was just trying to thinkwho the third person was. Isn't it
true though, that when we thinkabout Einstein, we think of e equals
mc squared or the theory of generalrelativity, and we think of him from
the point of view as a physicist. But you approached him from the point
of view as a human being,and you collected his stories of his life.

(06:44):
Yeah. But although I was Iwas doing that in an effort to
actually try to understand his science.But that was I remember actually how it
got started with the photographs I readabout Einstein and I thought, you know,
I'd really like to understand what thisis about relativity. And I started

(07:08):
That was back in the day,I think the Internet was just beginning,
and I somehow got in touch witha rare book dealer in Chicago and I
said, you know, I'm interestedin Albert Einstein, and you know,
i'd like to do you have anymaterial you know that would be of interest

(07:30):
to me. When I heard whatthe cost would be, you know,
to buy like really an original copyof his publications or you know, really
important things that I subsequently got intolater in life, I thought, well,
I can't really afford to do that. He said, well, I
do have a photograph of him withhis signature, and it was a cutout

(07:55):
signature mounted beneath the photo and nicelyframed. I looked at that. I
hung that photo in my study andso I look at it every day.
And then I thought, well,you know, maybe I could afford to
get some of his photographs that heactually had signed, and that was definitely

(08:16):
possible. It's a lot harder nowthat was probably I'm thinking that it was
probably twenty twenty five years ago thatI started doing that, and they're much
harder to find now. But inthe beginning, I was amazed, you
know. So I started because ofthe Internet was kind of getting easier to
use and it was possible to communicatewith different I you know, I went

(08:43):
to I would look up and Iwould contact the rare book dealers and say,
you know, I'm interested in doyou have any signed photographs at Alburt
ein Stein And so, you know, I'd find one here and one there,
and that's kind of how that itgot started. And then finally I
got in touch with Michael de Rugieriroat the Manhattan Rare Book Company in New

(09:11):
York, and he actually was veryinterested in helping me, and uh,
you know, he's the one whosuggested, why don't you start collecting,
you know, some of his lettersand you know what, I'll help you,
you know, locate things. Soover the years that's how I wound

(09:33):
up, you know, with witha collection and just looking at his signature
and his writing, I mean,his handwriting I find amazing, even up
to his you know, last yearof life. His handwriting was so precise,
and you know, you just couldget the feeling of somebody who was

(09:54):
very very very accurate and precise aboutthings. Every the thing that I learned
about him and every day, youknow, there's something in astronomy in particular,
you know, that just keeps goingback to, well, you know,
Einstein predicted this one hundred years agoand we're only now have the instrumentation

(10:16):
to be able to you know,measure these things. And that was one
of the arguments you know, againsthim repeatedly, you know, when he
was being nominated for no Abelt Prize, one of the arguments that his detractors
you know, would say, was, well, you know, he predicts
this, and he predicts that,but we haven't we can't measure it,

(10:37):
we haven't been able to find it. Well, they could find gravitational ways
one hundred years ago because they didn'thave ligo. The thing that I find
so interesting, you know about him, is how could he be so creative
in his thinking to understand these thingsthat we're still now trying a little bit

(10:58):
at a time too, you know, figure out or maybe learn more about
it or document, you know,but it's his his view of reality or
you know, what is out there. He just had this amazing mind.

(11:22):
I've always wondered one thing about him, you know, whenever the name Einstein
comes up, then this being apatent clerk in Burns, Switzerland. You
know, he came out of highschool and university obviously well accomplished and capable,
and probably had shown some of histeachers. I'm sure some of his
teachers noticed that he was intelligent beyondmeasure, and yet for some reason he's

(11:43):
working as a patent clerk. What'sthe deal with that particular aspect of his
life. From a very early age, he did not have the customary respect
for authority, particularly like he rubbedsome of this is the wrong way.
Because he didn't he would challenge them. They thought he was lazy. He

(12:07):
would, for example, you know, he skipped his classes Minkowski, who
subsequently helped him, you know,find the right mathematics. He you know,
he would skip his classes and hewas pursuing his own reading and education.

(12:31):
He felt that, you know,he was bored by some of the
things that they were teaching at theZurich Politech. And so when it came
time to you know, after hegraduated, it came time to get a
assistant position, which was required then, you know, in order to enter
an academic career. People didn't wanthim. They thought that he was maybe

(12:54):
insolent and just disrespectful. But theway I see him, you know,
he was very he was very honest. I mean he said what he thought.
And whereas most students, you know, might not say to a professor,
you know, if they why aren'tyou coming to class? It's boring?

(13:15):
You know, he just that's thatwas his personality. He was a
very unpretentious I didn't put on airsor try to pretend to be anything that
he wasn't. You know. Obviouslyhe spent a lot of his time inside
his own mental space and not reallypaying that much attention to what was going

(13:37):
on around him. So I thinkit was kind of a combination of those
things. That was probably the mostfortunate thing that could have happened to him,
because had he pursued, you know, gone right into it and become
an assistant to somebody, they wouldhave put him, you know, onto
what they wanted him to do.And you know, in the patent office,

(14:03):
that was a time when you know, he thought a lot about time
because the synchronization of clocks became veryimportant and many of the patents that here
reviewed had to do with timekeeping,and you know, how you could synchronize
so that a train schedule would makesense between two cities. I think that
was those years outside of academia werethe best thing for him. You know,

(14:28):
he did his day's work. Hewas so quick at it. He
could finish in two or three hours. And the rest of the time they
more or less left him alone,and he that's when he was doing his
own creative thinking. He came outwith his explosion of ideas in nineteen oh
five. It didn't take too longto you know, wanted by many many

(14:50):
universities. It's not too dissimilar fromIsaac Newton because the story with Newton was,
at the time he was attending CamberUniversity, there's a pandemic came through.
Everybody went back to their villages andNewton went home with a few books
and studied and on his own.And now here's Einstein kind of doing the

(15:11):
same thing. Yeah, I havefound the same thing exactly. And I
think maybe that's part of maybe that'sa necessary part of true creativity, is
being able to be not distracted bythings. I was thinking about that today.
How many the day goes by andI've done this, you know,

(15:33):
and I've answered emails on the phone, and I had to write texts and
so and and so forth, andhow little time I actually I haven't taken
any time yet. You know,usually for me it'll be late in the
evening after everything is done, andyou know, that's when I'll be able
to read or just you know,think about things doing writing. But I

(15:56):
think maybe that degree of isolations almostessential. Well, it certainly was for
Newton and Einstein, and then itwas really just Einstein perhaps the first one
to maybe think long and hard enoughabout the fact that Newton predicted the force
of gravity to be instantaneous, andthen Einstein said, wait, no,

(16:18):
it can't, because nothing can exceedthe speed of light. That's pretty fascinating
too, I mean, the ideathat the speed of light is always the
same in any frame of reference.That I think. I forget what year
the microlsoon Morley experiment was, butin later years, at least in some
interview, Einstein, you know,said that he wasn't sure that he wasn't

(16:41):
actually aware of the microso and Morleyexperiment at the time that he wrote his
paper on special relativity. It wasonly afterwards that he learned about it.
But so I've always wondered also,you know, how did he recognize that
that was the one thing that wasconstant invariant, not time, not space,

(17:07):
the speed of light, and whyis it? Why does the speed
of light always What is it aboutthe speed of light? You know it
shows up in the special relativity equationsgeneral relativity. So why is the speed
of light and the speed of gravitationalradiation? Why are the electro magnetic radiation

(17:30):
and gravitational radiation? Why do they? Why are they? Is that a
coincidence or you know, the factthat he recognized that is what I think.
You know, that pretty much changedeverything, because you know, logically,
if that's true, and you know, you think about it from different
frames of reference, then the onlyway that could be true is if time

(17:53):
is not constant and distance or spaceismI mean genius. I had heard his
story, and perhaps if you've heardthe story too, let me know that
he had been in London visiting hissister and was going home after dinner on

(18:14):
a trolley horse drawn trolley. Helooked up at the clock tower Big Ben,
and he thought, if this trolleywere to accelerate to the speed of
light right now, the photons comingoff of that clock would run along with
me, and the time that's displayedin the clock would stop advancing because the

(18:37):
photons from the next tick wouldn't approachhim. And he got from that the
notion that as you approach the speedof light, time will slow down.
Now, this is one of thesethought experiments that he was so famous for.
Yeah, I think that was oneof his, you know, one
of his early ones. Actually,even at age sixteen was already thinking about

(19:03):
that, and he said that hehad this thought experiment, Well, what
if I could run along a lightbeamand catch up with it? What what
would it look like? And thenhe said, well, of course that
would mean that there was an electromagneticwave that would be independent of time,

(19:25):
and such a thing as not possible. So even he was thinking about time,
clocks and light and you know,there are whatever our concept of time
is. He defined it in hispaper, you know, on Electrodynamics of

(19:45):
Moving bodies, the Special Relativity paper, he gave time and operational definition.
He said, it's you know whatwhat we what we measure with clocks.
So I don't know how far back, but I know I know for a
fact, by age sixteen he wasalready thinking about these concepts, not just

(20:06):
the philosophy of science that he held. I mean, he was well well
read, very knowledgeable about philosophy ingeneral, and unlike I think the majority
of his colleagues maybe or certainly inmore modern times, he felt that that

(20:30):
was really an important thing for aphysicist, theoretical physicists to understand. So
he was interested in just the Iguess now they call it theory of knowledge.
But okay, so even at agesixteen, he was thinking about these
things. But he also related hiscreative thoughts to music, which is something

(20:56):
that's kind of fascinating. And hesaid he didn't he didn't think in words,
you know, he thought in picturesand in music. And I'm not
exactly sure what that means, butanother part of creative aspect of the brain.
I think, you know, peoplewho have musical abilities or you know,

(21:19):
it's a that's a separate way ofthinking. Maybe it's a little maybe
analogous to mathematics, I guess,because I think math and music are analogous.
And it's something that I always tryto emphasize whenever I'm speaking with teachers
and with students, is that toteach scientifically, there has to be an

(21:41):
artistic outlet or some sort of incorporationof creativity through art or music or poetry.
I mean, how many quotes arethere that are associated with Einstein that
has something to do with imagination andcreativity. That was his whole essays.
I think that's what makes him sofascinating. And then you know, on

(22:04):
top of that, I mean,to me, that's I keep going back
to wanting to understand as well asI can the science. What you know
is as much as possible. Heis fascinating for so many other things.

(22:25):
I mean, his his commitment tothe truth, his commitment to pacifism,
anti nationalism. I mean, hewas very much against militarism. And yet
you know, when after he hadcome to the United States and it seemed

(22:49):
that you know, the Germans hadsplit the ADAM and they were possibly going
to have an atomic bomb, heactually changed his lifelong commitment to passivism,
and you know, agreed to signthis letter to President Roosevelt. And he

(23:11):
didn't participate himself in the Manhattan Project, but he certainly had some influence and
probably helping it to get started.But that's an amazing thing too to me.
You know that after the war,I mean when they dropped the bomb.
He was quoted to say, woeis me, you know, and

(23:33):
in later years he said, hadI known that, you know, the
Nazis would not have gotten an atomicbomb, I never would have lifted a
finger, or I never would havesigned that letter. So I find this
fascinating. After the war, hedevoted many of the remaining years of his
life to try to promote globalism.And I'm thinking of how it relates to

(24:00):
the Oppenheimer movie. You know thatthey both or saw, you know,
the real danger, you know,what had been developed so he could change
his mind. You know, it'snot that he and he said, well,
okay, you know this, Ihave this, and that it has

(24:22):
to be that way. He hada very open mind. And yet despite
the open mindedness, he was verymuch bent upon the notion of a static
universe, as was everybody at thetime, and he struggled immensely with the
discoveries of Edwin Hubbell, who foundthat the universe was red shifted, indicating

(24:47):
that the galaxies are moving apart theuniverse is expanding. He didn't like this
idea at all at first, didhe. Well, I don't know how
much he resisted once, you know, helped had evidence. I mean,
I think again, you would knowmore than I do about this. But
my understanding was in his original equations, the universe was shown to be unstable.

(25:15):
It would either be contracting or expanding. And but since and that's he
called it his greatest blunder. Eventuallyhe did everybody, all of the scientists.
Everyone thought the universe was static.So he came up with this cosmological
constant, you know, to makecorrection. But there's even even in that.

(25:37):
So that was his greatest blunder,biggest mistake. But even his mistake,
maybe you know, is now aclue towards what is causing the expansion
of the universe. So it maywell be the mathematical representation of dark energy.
Right, this is a speculation today. Yeah, he's still making discoveries

(26:00):
all these years later. I know, But I thought when when you said
something about well, you know,he could change his mind. But I
thought you were going to talk about, you know, his resistance to quantum
theory. He believed there was ahow did he put it, you know,

(26:22):
I can't put it. I can'tquote exactly. He believed that,
you know, physics examined what realentities, not the probabilities of those entities.
So he held on to that belief. You know. The way I
interpret his resistance to well, hecontributed a lot to quantum theory, even

(26:45):
though he, you know, wasconstantly challenging it. But I think he
believed, is I understand, youknow, current it's kind of come back
into you know, being acceptable again, that there has to be an under
line theory that would unify the twoso that in that sense, neither of

(27:07):
them, neither relativity nor quantum mechanics, was a complete theory in itself.
Yeah, the way I'll explain itto my students is that the macro world,
planets and the stars and the galaxiesare made up of the atoms.
The atoms themselves are governed by quantummechanics. The electrons orbit the nucleus based

(27:33):
on an electromagnetic effect, while theplanets orbit the stars based on a gravitational
effect. So somewhere from the verysmall emerging to the very large, there's
a jump from quantum mechanics to generalrelativity. But there's a divide there,
and I think it became one ofEinstein's greatest quests in life was to unify

(27:56):
those two theories. But it wassomething he never actually was able to do.
But I don't think anybody's been ableto do it so far. I
think one of the Nobel prizes ofthe future will be awarded to the person
who can unify these two theories ofphysics. He'll be the next Newton Einstein.
That's right. I mean, again, my understanding is there's no,

(28:19):
it's not actually a clear dividing line. They keep doing experiments that demonstrate where
does the translation occur and why.I mean I think, yeah, eventually
somebody will be able to hopefully,you know, explain it all in one

(28:41):
theory. Yeah, I mean,the idea that particles can be entangled and
affect each other instantaneously across great distancesseems to defy Einstein's theory of the constant
nature of the speed of light.They seem to be able to exceed the
speed of light. It was maybefind a man who said, you know,

(29:02):
if you think you understand quantum quantumtheory, you know you're mistaken.
Yeah, nobody either mistaken or aliar. Yeah, I think nobody understands
quantum theory. But the other thingthat was interesting about some of his earlier
days was that he had formulated thesetheories of gravity and this theory of special

(29:27):
relativity. Yet he was awarded theNobel Prize for the theory of the photoelectric
effect, and that apparently rubbed himreally the wrong way, and didn't he
do something quite deliberate at the ceremonywhen he received his Nobel prize. Well,
so he had been rejected, youknow, for really over a decade

(29:51):
by the Nobel well by the SwedishAcademy. There were a number of different
reasons. There were several members ofthe Nobel Committee for Physics who really rejected
relativity and they simply either they didn'tunderstand it. I think, you know,

(30:17):
there's reasona believe they really didn't havethe mathematical background to understand it.
And they and there were others who, you know, for anti Semitic reasons,
claimed that he had stolen it fromyou know, other German scientists,
that he was rightfully their theory.Various reasons that there were objections to giving

(30:41):
the prize to him, but itwas specifically for the theory of relativity.
So they what happened in nineteen twentyone, no prize was given at all.
They couldn't agree that the committee onphysics. You know, there was
one member who adamantly said, youknow, I don't care if the whole

(31:03):
world demands that Einstein must never geta Nobel Prize, but he was specifically
objected to the theory of relativity,so they gave no prize that year in
nineteen twenty one. In nineteen twentytwo, a new person came on too
that committee, Carl William Bossing.He was interested in saying that Nils Bohr

(31:32):
got the nineteen twenty two prize,and he realized that he could also sort
of break this impasse over Einstein bytying Bore's theory of the atom to the
work that Einstein had done. Sohe was able to convince the committee that,

(31:56):
well, yeah, let's not wewon't give price Einstein for relativity,
but the law of the photo electriceffect, you know, is basic and
that was an important contribution in termsof quantum physics. And I think in

(32:16):
maybe nineteen nineteen mix Klonik had gottenhad received the award, So anyway,
there was no unused award for nineteentwenty one, and it was Osin who
was kind of critical in convincing everybody, Okay, we have to eventually,
you know, the Swedish Academy hasto award a Nobel Prize to Einstein.

(32:39):
It would really be a detrimental totheir reputation if they don't. But we'll
give it to him for the theoryfor the law of the photo electric effect.
And what was very unusual was thatwhen the award was given, the
chairman of the committee his name wasspont Erroneus specifically talked about and made it

(33:06):
clear that the prize was not beinggiven for relativity. And Einstein's Nobel certificate
apparently as unique and being the onlyone that actually has on it, what
the prize was not awarded for.They worded it in such a way in
recognition of his contributions to theoretical physicsand particularly the law of the photo electric

(33:34):
effect, not pertaining to relativity,which may be confirmed or may find,
you know, experimental confirmation in thefuture. They made it clear that it
was not for that. And that'ssomething again, you know, to me,

(33:57):
that is so I guess one wouldprobably say predictable, but disheartening that
even in science and even among thehonored scientists who participate in the Nobel Prize
selection and review, you know,the basic human emotions of jealousy, prejudice,

(34:28):
insecurity, insecurity, political, youknow considerations, these play a role,
and even in you know, whatshould be the most objective and not
subject to these Really they have nothingto do with the science. But that
was a fact, and you know, it seems to be part of the

(34:51):
human condition. That's how things aretoday. Imagine though, if the Nobel
Committee never awarded Albert Einstein, ofall people, Nobel prize, that would
have been blasphemous. Yeah. Well, Charlie, and I don't know if
you're familiar with Abraham pace pace hisbook it was one of the early biographies.

(35:14):
He was a physicist who worked withEinstein, and he wrote one of
the early biographies, and in ithe says, well, the Committee on
Physics, you know, for theNobel Committee trying to be conservative. They

(35:36):
were. His explanation was they werevery strongly experimentalists. They really didn't like,
you know, theorists. That wasnot in vogue at the time,
so they were being very conservative.There was evidence, you know, confirming

(35:57):
the photoelectric fact, and they sortof stumbled into making giving him an award
for perhaps the most significant of allof his discoveries. Didn't he go on
to his acceptance speech and speak solelyon the topic of relativity. Yes,
he did. He spoke about relativityeven though he had won the award for

(36:17):
it. And the custom was youaddress the Nobel you go to the Switch
Academy, you know, on theoccasion of a Nobel Prize ceremony, and
you address them on the topic ofyour award. Well, the problem was
so okay. He was awarded innineteen twenty two the nineteen twenty one prize,

(36:44):
but at the time that the awardwas announced, he was on a
trip to Japan. Now he knewabout the trip before he left. They
had contacted him to suggest that hemight want to reserve this time to come
to Stockholm, but he decided hehad already made plans to go abroad for

(37:05):
four months, and so he didn'tchange his plans on that. One of
the considerations was that he was maybea wanted person at the time by the
Nazis because there was a Jewish foreignminister in Germany at the time who had
just been assassinated Rotha now I thinkhis name was. Anyway, all this

(37:29):
occurred at the time and Einstein thought, well, you know, I better
leave the country. It's not safefor me right now. And he had
already had this trip planned, Soeven though they gave him an advanced announcement,
he didn't go to the ceremony toreceive his award. But he had
planned to go the following year tostop Holm to give the Nobel lecture.

(37:54):
But in the meantime, and againthis is where I'm a little confused about
what I've been able to learn.I don't understand the motivation of this this
savant erroneus. He was the chairmanof the Physics committee. He was opposed
to giving Einstein. He was oneof the people who opposed relativity, although

(38:17):
he wasn't opposed to Einstein. Buthe turned out that he apparently was part
of the planning committee for a meetingin Gothenburg for the three hundredth aniversary of
the city's founding, and he wroteto Einstein and suggested that instead of coming

(38:39):
to Stockholm in December, that heshould go in July and give his Nobel
address there. And he also putin this letter to Einstein the choices here
but yours. But I suggest thator you speak about the topic for relativity.

(39:00):
So the very same man who helpedblock Einstein from getting the award,
was now suggesting that he give thisaddress elsewhere and on the topic relativity,
which Einstein did. That became verycontroversial because because of the fact that he

(39:21):
really didn't do anything that was normallyexpected of a Nobel laureate. He never
went to a Nobel award, hedidn't address the Swedish Academy, and he
didn't talk about the topic of hisaward. So that in itself led to
more controversy, you know, amonghis detractors, and they tried to it's

(39:44):
unclear to me. I'll put itthis way. It's called his Nobel lecture,
but is it really Academy itself haddecided they didn't think that it was
truly a Nobel lecture, but thesame erroneous to me. He's a mystery
man. He had already taken thelecture and gotten it to the wherever they

(40:08):
were putting together the annual book wherethey include the Nobel lectures, and so
it was already in proof and apparentlyit went through. So it's it's called
his Nobel lecture, but I don'tthink it really was. But clearly Einstein,

(40:29):
the only value that he saw Ithink of the Nobel Prize. By
the time he got it was themoney that went to his first wife.
And in later years when he listedhis I think in his autobiography, when

(40:50):
when he lists his important awards,the Nobel Prizes not in there. So
clearly there was there weren't good feelings, you know, between most of the
participants in this. It was verycontentious. What was the storyline of his
personal life? Who was he marriedto and what about his children? He

(41:14):
married Mariva Mallett, who was Swabian. They met at the university was there
was his physics class consisted I thinkof five people and she was the one
female in the class. Before graduation, she became pregnant. She went back

(41:35):
home and had the baby, whichwas a girl. Einstein apparently never saw
the daughter, and there's a it'snot really known for sure. There's speculation
ast to you know, who adoptedher, but there apparently are no written
records that could be found. Shewhen she returned, she finished her required

(41:59):
class, but she failed the finalexaminations and then they that's when he also
was unable to secure an academic position, and they wound up getting this job
in the Patent office. You know, through a friend of his, one

(42:22):
of his best friends. They hadtwo two boys, Hans Albert, he
was an engineer who apparently moved tothe United States. He's since passed uh
And then they had a second sonwho was unfortunately became schizophrenic and I think

(42:45):
spent most of his adult life untilhis death in a sanatorium. So it
was a very it was not ahappy marriage. But as part of the
divorce, you know agreement, Einsteinwas so sure that he would eventually win
a Nobel Prize that he said,you know that if he'll give me a

(43:07):
divorce, I'll give you all themoney for the Nobel Prize. Have you
regret that? I don't think so. Actually, I think money didn't really
mean much to him. He wasterrible with it in his younger years.
Like you know, when you seethe pictures of him in his thirties,
forties, maybe fifties, he waswell dressed, you know, well groomed.

(43:30):
He always had a suit and lookedvery respectable. But as he became
older, those things didn't mean anythingto him at all. I really don't
think that money. I mean,he turned down many many commercial ventures or
schemes that people would come to himsaying, well, you know, if

(43:52):
you'll lend us your name. Thathe wasn't interested in anything like that.
I think he was interested in learningthe truth about the world, the cosmos,
and I think helping other people.I think he generally and he did
help many, many, many peoplefinancially or just socially. He was instrumental

(44:19):
in helping to relocate many, youknow, Jewish scientists and others, not
just scientists, but escaping the Nazis. But did he have to elude the
Nazis himself? That was his lifeever in danger from that party currently It
said, yeah, there was aprice on his head. He was in

(44:43):
the United States when they when theNazis, when Hitler took control, when
the government collapsed and he really ascendedto power. That was when Einstein and
his second wife, Elsa were atbirth and the Nazis confiscated his property.

(45:05):
He had an estate country place.They confiscated that they I think they burned
they burned some of his possessions.I don't know what they did with his
writings or books that were there,but yeah, and it was said that

(45:25):
he had a price on his headat that point. And what year would
that have been nineteen thirty three,and that's when he came over to the
US, not for the first time, but he came over to State and
he renounced his German back. Hewound up in Europe, I think Belgium

(45:46):
and then England, and then hefinally got back to the United States and
he ended up working at Princeton University. But I was unaware, I think
a moment ago you mentioned he hadbeen at Berkeley was did he have a
position of Berkeley. Yeah. Idon't know if they you know, if
he was a visiting professor or somethinglike that, but he had been to

(46:07):
Berkeley. That was maybe his thirdtime that he had actually been there,
so he he seemed to you know, he left the southern California weather,
and it's very likely he would havewound up at Berkeley. I think it
was Abraham Flexner was involved in thecreation of the Institute for Advanced Study,

(46:35):
and he specifically went to Einstein torecruit him as they may have been the
actual first person that they recruited,you know, to the Institute when he
was after he agreed and they youknow, the proposal was, well,
this is a place where you haveno responsibilities you know, you can do

(46:59):
your own work, you can teach, so there won't be any there won't
be any distractions. And I thinkthat he was asked, you know,
what amount of salary he would require, and he said something like three thousand
dollars a year. Instead of givinghim three thousand a year, you know,

(47:20):
they gave him twelve thousand. Thatwas ridiculously but that's that's basically,
you know what how he lived.He lived in a very simple home.
He walked to work, he neverdrove, never never had a car.
Sometimes he'd ride a bicycle. Ithink that certainly by that time in his

(47:43):
life, you know, he didn'tsee that there was any need for money.
And it seems like that in thosedays, by the time he got
out to the East Coast, ofcourse in California, that would have been
perfect for his final kind of deliberationswith Hubble and working on that whole theory
of expanding universe. But I thinkit was at that time on the East

(48:04):
Coast at Princeton that he really startedto get heavily into his grappling with the
unification of physics. And they sayfrom the thirties right through to his death
in nineteen fifty five that he attemptedto solve this conundrum. I know this
from reading his Nobel address. Imean, he was even what he wanted

(48:30):
to talk about. Actually, hegave his Nobel Address in nineteen twenty three
in Gottenburg. It was on relativity, but what he wanted to talk about
was his grand unifying theory. Hewas already working on it then, because
he recognized that even general relativity wasincomplete. I mean, it wasn't a

(48:55):
complete description of the universe. Ithink that that is what dominated his thinking
for most of the rest of hislife. Well, you need Newtonian physics
to get you from if you wantedto travel interplanetary, you need Einsteinian physics
if you want to travel intergalactically.But if you want to travel across an

(49:17):
atom, you need quantum physics.You know, And of course he's probably
thinking, why do I need allthese different types of physics? Is there
not some grand unifying theory that coversthem all? And that was that was
his greatest quest all of his life, by the sounds of things. But
then by the thirties and with theadvent of the Nazis in Germany, he

(49:38):
did get involved with the development ofthe nuclear bomb. But you said he
wasn't actually part of the Manhattan Project, But what was his connection to Oppenheimer
and that whole development from Roosevelt throughto the actual bombing in Japan. His

(49:58):
only connection to Oppenheimer, as Iunderstand it early was they were colleagues at
the Institute for Advanced Study. Oppenheimerwas the director up until a year before
his death. Einstein had come soonerearlier, but then once Oppenheimer came,
he was theoretically, I guess,not as superior but administratively, but they

(50:23):
were probably had relatively few interactions.So my understanding is the only thing that
Einstein did was he signed the letterthat he actually hadn't written, that was
brought to him basically by Leo Salard, was a Hungarian physicist who he and

(50:45):
two others recognized fission and the possibilityof chain reactions, so he was kind
of the driving force. He cameto Einstein with this, after several drafts,
a letter that Einstein agreed to signbecause that they felt that was probably
the only way they could get Roosevelt'sattention. Was you know, Einstein had

(51:10):
his name was important enough that itwould come to the President's attention. That
was the one thing that he did. He never really he was never asked,
and he probably would have refused toparticipate himself in the Manhattan Project.
I think I haven't seen the Oppenheimermovie yet. I've been reading about it,

(51:32):
and apparently there was a conversation.And I think this is historically true
that the UN American Committee Macartheism wasat its heyday, and this was it
around the same time that Atomic EnergyCommittee decided they would take away Oppenheimer's security

(51:53):
clearance. Einstein advised people, youknow, not to simply not to testify,
not to go to the to Congressto testify, and he did apparently
advise Oppenheimer that I think he wassaid, they need you more than you
need them. Why go and dothis to yourself. But Oppenheimer felt,

(52:16):
you know, that he had toattend the hearings, So I think that
was probably the extent of their Theynever really collaborated on any scientific work that
I'm aware of. There was somepersonal relationship in that for one of his
birthdays, Oppenheimer secretly arranged to havean antenna, a radio intend to put

(52:39):
on the house Einstein's house, andthen they presented him with the radio so
that you know, he could listento concerts, and apparently, you know,
that was that would really Einstein lovedthat. But I think that was
the only example that I've been ableto mind of a personal relationship that they

(53:01):
actually had. So despite his formula, you know, e equals mc squared,
which is I guess, the basisfor the energy of this bomb,
he hadn't had no contribution scientifically tothe development of the bomb, No,
none at all. And in fact, you know, he up until the
point I guess where he was convincedso Lard was able to convince him that

(53:22):
this was actually a possibility. Hedidn't believe it when they first brought him
this information, and he didn't thinkthat was actually likely to happen. But
I guess he was convinced, Yes, theoretically it could be done. This
is the I think that you know, with the most important scientific discoveries and

(53:49):
advances, one of the problems isthat these can be used for destructive,
terrible reasons, to the detriment ofhumanity as much as they can you know
equals mc squared. Hey, yes, it actually could permit travel in I
don't know about intergalactic travel. Butyou know, certainly space travel give us

(54:15):
the ability to have you know,power and energy for the population, but
also it has this destructive possibility.And there again, I guess my belief
is human beings being what they are, what they were in Einstein's time,

(54:36):
what they are today, and probablywhat we're likely to be in the future.
That's always going to be a problemthat science, you know, in
its purest form, I mean,has to do with the acquisition of knowledge
and truth, and that should ideallybe a good thing, but there is

(54:59):
always the possible, you know,where it can go wrong. Is it
true that there was another letter writtenby Einstein to Harry Truman imploring him not
to use the bomb? No,I don't. I the only there was
a second letter that I'm that I'maware of that he wrote to Roosevelt because
after two years after his initial letter, something else had happened in Germany.

(55:23):
But Einstein wrote a second letter justto try to emphasize the importance of moving
ahead, you know, getting gettinggoing, and I think that was also
an important letter. I'm not awareof any interaction that he had with Truman.
I think it was Oppenheimer, youknow who said to Truman, tried

(55:46):
to Truman out of developing the hydrogenbomb. That was and that's what brought
Oppenheimer down, you know, wasboth when he when he was too insistent
with Truman. That's a whole other, whole other thing about the hydrates in
Bonn. But Mason wonder as well, because the other great scientists that came

(56:09):
to the US out of Germany ataround the same time was Werner von Braun.
And I wonder if Einstein and vonBraun ever had any interactions or communications
about, Hey, you know,why don't you come over here to the
US. Did had you ever heardof something that happening? Ever reading anything

(56:29):
about Einstein and Braun? But I'lllook for you know now that that question,
I mean it is yeah, Ithink that you know, the Germans
unfortunately, you know, the Nazislost many, perhaps most of their best
minds, you know, by drivingthe Jewish scientists and others out of the

(56:52):
country. Mm hmm. So you'vewritten this book really as as a piece
to give to the people to findout more about the man that Einstein was,
and his personality and his likes andhis experiences, even his he bumped

(57:14):
into Charlie Chaplin at one time,and he he you know, even have
images in and of him sailing.He liked his sail and the clothes,
the leather bomber jackets that he wouldwear. So is it really quite a
personal book, isn't it? Andit's sort of a passion project of yours
is what it ended up becoming,wasn't it. Yeah? Well, I

(57:36):
mean I think again, the collectionsort of just happened over twenty five years.
You know, this came and thensomebody said, hey, you know,
I've got this letter or I've gotthis photograph, would be interested,
So I think, you know,to me, the book was an opportunity

(57:57):
to try to draw it together,you know, to a chronological story.
And that's again, you know,I sort of as I thought about it.
And when I look at the photographs, I mean, I'm always intrigued
by just examining his face, hisexpression, how he's dressed. I look

(58:19):
at the signatures, you know,I don't know why they fascinate me to
see that in his own handwriting.Somehow it makes the makes it more real
to me. Yeah, it waskind of an opportunity to just see the
if there is a theme or aconsistency, a flow of something, and

(58:44):
that's what I found. I thinkthat maybe I'm just thinking myself as Okay,
I'm not I'm not a scientist,but I have this. I revere
the in for what he did,how he thought, and just how he

(59:07):
was and you know from I soI wanted to share that this book is.
It's an oversized book, and thereason for it was so that I
could make the reproductions of the photographsexactly the way they are as original.
So it's a large book. It'svery artistically done. Yeah, it looks

(59:30):
gorgeous. The paper is thick,it feels like Lennon. There's like one
of the series of photographs taken byVishniak, seven photographs, very interesting.
You know that they were taking.The photographer just kind of waited until Einstein.

(59:50):
He was in Brinstein's presence and talkingwith him, and then he noticed,
which was not unusual. Einstein allof a sudden stopped talking to him
and just you know, was offin his internal world and started working and
writing equations, and you know,it wasn't even aware that the photographer was
there anymore. And that's when hetook these photographs. So there beautiful,

(01:00:15):
candid photos. I'll send you acopy of the book because it's love that
very fortunate. So I was putin touch with a book designer. I
didn't I didn't know before this iswhat a book designer was. But I
was in touch, put in touchwith an excellent book designer who turned it
into a very artistic piece with allkinds of interesting So I would take a

(01:00:40):
photograph and then again it's reproduced exactlylike the original, with relatively little text.
It would always the format of thebook is there's an image and then
there's a short amount of text sortof explaining what the image is and putting
it into a historical context. Soin order to try to get the quality

(01:01:02):
that I wanted, the book becameit's a coffee table book. Yeah,
quite large, you know, Andto me, I don't know how.
I don't have contact with high schoolstudents, so I'm not exactly sure you
know how they think these days,but sort of even half interested, you

(01:01:23):
know, has heard about Albert Einstein, but doesn't necessarily know what is it
about Einstein? You know, whyis he? Why does everybody know him?
And to me, this book kindof gives a good explanation. It's
very visual. I mean, it'sthat's the whole point of it. I

(01:01:44):
don't want to make the book availableas an ebook because I don't think it's
possible. Two, you can't communicatethe same way. I mean, the
material the writing would be either,but I don't think it would be the
sac thing. Yeah, I agreewith you. It's an aspect of teaching

(01:02:07):
that doesn't get addressed often, andthat's the value of the book. That's
what it would be valuable in thehands of a teacher, so that they
could be able to relate the storiesof this man who typically has looked upon
as a synonymous with science. He'ssynonymous with intelligence, genius, he's synonymous

(01:02:30):
with wild hair and that that reallyis kind of it. Beyond that we
know him as E equals MC squaredand the theory of relativity, But really
who was this man? And yourbook addresses all of that. Yeah,
now I think you get a reallythat's the feeling that I've gotten, you
know. And to me again,the book is it was a way for

(01:02:52):
me to pull all of these separatethings together, you know, and try
to create more of a just understanding, you know. So, but I
think it comes across as a storyand maybe just as well. Perhaps time
for one last story. I wonderif you could address the the near the

(01:03:14):
end of his days, or veryright right to the end of his days,
when he's found in his home inPrinceton, New Jersey, dead in
his bed, and his beside himis his notebook in which he's still formulating
in his relentless pursuit for this unificationtheory? Is this? Is this the
way we should remember him, followinghis dreams and his pursuit of knowledge right

(01:03:38):
to the very end. Yes,But the story is that it's not accurate.
What happened was he had aortic aneurysmin the abdomen, which is an
enlargement of the aorta, a weakenedarea that had actually been discovered I'm not

(01:04:00):
sure how many years before, whenhe was having severe abdominal pain and underwent
surgery, exploratory surgery, and that'swhen they found this aneurysm. At that
time, there was you know,they couldn't repair it the way they do
now, taking a section out andputting in a graft. So the surgeon

(01:04:21):
wrapped it with cellophane, which causesa fibrotic reaction and that actually gave it
some extra strength when he at theend of his life. He began and
he was relatively pain free after that, but then he started having pain again

(01:04:44):
and that's when the aneurysm was leakingblood in the abdominal cavity. Is very
painful. So he stayed. Ithink he stayed at home for maybe two
days before he agreed to go intothe hospital. But he did go to
Prince in the hospital and he wasthere for It was on his fifth day
in the hospital that he died.And yeah, he had with him,

(01:05:11):
you know, that's how he spenthis time as he did normally, you
know, with his pen and papersand working on his equations and you know,
trying to trying to find the youknow, the right theory. When
he when he died, he apparentlyspoke a few words in German, but

(01:05:33):
he was attended at that time.It was like one o'clock in the morning
and the nurse who was with himdid not speak German, so we don't
know what it was that he said, it'll just be a mister, and
I think he agreed to go toat the hospital so it as not to
be a burden, you know,the people at home. M Well,

(01:05:57):
that's some clarity for me because thestory I had was similar but not nearly
as accurate. But that's the valueof speaking with someone like yourself. And
the book is such as the oneyou've written, is you can get these
accuracies corrected or get my errors corrected, I guess, to become accurate,
and we do, you know,I I wrote this. I wanted it

(01:06:18):
to be as simple as possible soanybody you know could understand it. They
wouldn't have to have any particular otherother than being able to read at probably
eleventh or twelfth grade level. That'sall that takes. But it is we
do have references, you know,so that sometimes, for example, like

(01:06:41):
with quotes, you wonder, youknow, when you read a quote Mindsteed
and said this or said that,they're certainly not all accurate. So we
do give references, you know,to support what you know we think are
accurate quotes. Well, I certainlythank you very much for joining me here

(01:07:01):
today and explaining this book, andI appreciate all of the insight. And
one thing I reiterate, it's anaspect of scientific education that just doesn't get
addressed often enough, I believe isthis personalized side of the people who came

(01:07:23):
up with these incredible theories. Wedon't know enough about the people, and
I think that's a very important partof a part of education. Interesting.
I'd really love to have that bookI read. Quite honestly, I read
a lot of it this afternoon juston my phone, but I'm sure the
book itself would be far more enjoyable. I've got one of his photographs up

(01:07:47):
on my wall, and I thinkI saw that there a photograph every day
for twenty five years. I feellike I've like I kind of know him
in a way. You know,it's like a more personal connection than just
he's this wild haired icon. Youknow, he was a real man.
I mean, you know, fleshand blood. Are there any surviving descendants,

(01:08:11):
Yes, he does through his sonHans Albert. There is an American
family of descendants, grandchildren of greatgrandchildren and so forth. There's a book
that just came out, a paperbackbook called called The Einstein Effect. This
is written by a guy who managesthe Facebook account for the Einstein Archives in

(01:08:41):
Jerusalem. So he's written a bookthat is filled with fascinating information. I
mean all kinds of stuff. It'squite different than the approach at I've taken.
But when you said, let's youhave any descendants in the US,
yeah, absolutely, he does.Well, thanks so much again for joining

(01:09:02):
me. Okay, yeah, ifyou send me your Melion address, I
think that probably tomorrow I'll get itin parcel posts. So looks sometimes next
week you should have a book.I hope your students will enjoy it.
You know, I'll be interested tohear in the future if if you get

(01:09:24):
any reaction from them, I'd bevery interested to hear. Absolutely absolutely,
I'll keep in touch with you thatway. I typically like to bring books
and I'll sit and read. Imean, reading to students is typically reserved
for K through three, but surprisinglygrade eleven and twelve students don't mind if

(01:09:44):
a teacher sits and reads a bitof a story to them. There's something
kind of timeless about that practice.So I do that from time to and
I'll use your book for that atsome point in this school year. Okay,
well, great, well, thanksso much fun talking to you.
Well, it was certainly fun forme too, doctor Berger, and more
recently, it's been a lot offun looking through the brilliant book that he's

(01:10:09):
written to follow up. Two daysafter I recorded this episode, Gary's book
arrived at my door, and it'sbrilliant. It's a hardcover book that weighs
over four pounds. The pictures areincredible, and really the book is as
much a work of art as itis a pictorial biography of Einstein. I'll
link to where you can order thebook. I highly recommend it for school

(01:10:30):
libraries and for teachers to have itin class and actually read excerpts from it
to your students. All the proceedsfrom this book are being donated to the
Albert Einstein Archives at the Hebrew Universityof Jerusalem. I found out that in
his will, Albert Einstein left theHebrew University his personal papers and the copyright
to all of them. Einstein wasa member of the university's first board of

(01:10:51):
governors. In nineteen twenty five,the original forty six page manuscript of the
General Theory of Relativity ended up atthe Hebrew University in Jerusalem. So there
you go. The more you know, the more you know, the more
you know. He just keep learningeverybody and bring some of these incredible stories
of Einstein, the person not justhis math, not just his physics,

(01:11:13):
but the person to your students,and I'm sure they'll be amazed at what
you tell them. Have a greatday, everybody, See you next time.