Dave Del Col with Eric Kennedy from Big Blue Interactive

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back toanother edition of the Scouts on our podcast.
Today, we're pleased to have anothernew guest to the show, Eric
Kennedy. Eric is the founder andeditor in chief of Big Blue Interactive,
also known as BBI. For morethan twenty five years, he's led discussions,
reported news, and written articles onthe New York Giants. BBI was
originally created in the early spring ofnineteen ninety five and has been the premier

(00:27):
Giants fan forum ever since. Ericis connected to every aspect of the franchise
throughout the season. We're thrilled tohave him on the show and excited to
get his perspective. Eric, thanksfor making the time and welcome to the
show. Thanks for having me on. No problem. So I think broadly,
let's start this off with, youknow, a state of the union.

(00:49):
Where do you think we stand itas a franchise. There's been a
lot of change with coordinators, freeagent acquisitions, you know, it's just
a whole new world going into thenext season. So would love to get
your take, since you're so deepin the weeds and so many aspects of
the organization of where you think we'vedone well. Where we still have some

(01:11):
voids that we need to fill.Give us your state of the union when
it comes to the organization right now. Yeah, that's a good place to
start off. I think what weneed to do is take a step back
and look where we were two yearsago and see where we're the Giants are
right now. So twenty twenty two, Shane comes in with da bowl and

(01:34):
they basically blow this thing up.They decide not to do Daniel Jones's fifth
year option. They the first targetChain mentioned from his opening press conference,
which was very surprising at the time, was he said we've got to cut
forty million dollars from the cap rightoff the bat. He said that right
from the start, very specific,and he did it, and he let

(01:57):
go a lot of guys at thetime, like James Bradbury was like,
oh Kyle, Rudolph Logan, Ryan, there were a number of people that
were just released in the free agentmarket at that time. They hardly resigned
anybody. They basically started to gutthe team at that point, and I
think most Giants fans felt we gottwo new guys completely from outside of the

(02:21):
organization. They had no ties toJohn Merra and the franchise up until this
point, and I think the fansunderstood at that point the team wasn't going
to be very good in twenty twentytwo, but they were okay with it
as long as we were going togo on the right path. So you
looked at the decision not to signor to do the fifth year option on

(02:47):
Daniel Jones, and there was alsothe question do you extend Saquon Barkley at
the time, and again, Ithink what a lot of people were thinking,
well, we're going in a newdirection and they're going to rebuild through
the So twenty twenty two happens,and they play a lot better than anyone
expected that. That team way overachieved. They had the fast start, they

(03:08):
stumbled in the second half, especiallywhen injuries started started hitting hard, especially
on defense. They had two biginjuries in the secondary. One was self
inflicted with that Xavier McKinney accident.But they they sort of writing the ship
towards the end, got into playoffs, won that playoff game in Minnesota,

(03:29):
and everyone's thinking, Wow, youknow, we got a really good GM,
we got a really good head coach. The curious part came then,
so you're going into the offseason,and they've got two big decisions at the
time. And the reason why I'mgoing into this is a tizon to now
tis so what to do with DanielJones and what to do with Saquon Barkley.

(03:52):
So they they couldn't get a dealdone with Saquon, and I I
think that kind of put them ina bind with Daniel Jones a bit.
I think if you know, obviously, if they could go back in time
and redo this, they would haverather franchised Jones and then maybe let Saquon

(04:15):
walk. So you know that wherethat ties into now is they're stuck with
the Daniel Jones contract right now,which can have an impact a big impact
on this draft because it's because ofthe injury clause, which we might get
into in a second. But thebut the Saquon issue also was interesting because
only a year later now they lethim walk. They could have franchised him

(04:39):
again, kept them for the samebasically the same price, but they decided,
no, we're gonna let him walk, and it doesn't look like they
even made a big play to keephim, so they decided not to trade
him. Halfway through the season beforethe trade deadline, when the season was
for all intensive purposes, it wasover at that point. By Halloween,
the Giants were dead in the water. There was no let's keep Let's keep

(05:00):
Saquon, because you're sending a signalto the rest of the team that you're
throwing the rest of the season away. Well, the rest of the season
was done by that point anyways.So what's interesting to me is this The
reason I bring up bring this upis this, So the new regime felt
in twenty twenty two that they weregoing to probably have to rebuild this thing,

(05:27):
tear it down, start all overagain. What happened in twenty twenty
two either caused them to change theirmind about that, or ownership weighed in
and said, no, we're notcomfortable with letting the face of the franchise,
Saquon go. You're gonna have tocome up with some some kind of
solution here. And they and weknow ownership Phils has a soft spot in

(05:50):
the heart for Daniel Jones as welltoo. So I'm not trying to throw
John Mayer under the bus. Butthe big weird thing that's not being discussed
by a lot of people outside thefan community is this is something changed between
twenty twenty two in twenty twenty three, and I'm not really sure that.

(06:13):
I don't think Dabol and Shane areare the types of types of people that
would have their minds changed so easily. So I still wondered was there outside
influence from ownership, And if not, that makes me questioned again whether Shane
and Dabel are up to the taskat this point. And I hope they

(06:33):
are because because they made a radicallydifferent call on Daniel Jones from in a
twelve month period and now that we'rein this situation based on what they're doing
now, it looks like they've goneand you know, they've gone back to
their original, their original thought processon this because if you look at the
teams that the quarterbacks that they've visited, they've basically they've had every quarterback in

(06:57):
this draft visit the state. Nowthat there's six quarterbacks that we've learned today
as of today, six quarterbacks whohave now thirty visits with this team,
So including the visits at the combinethe private meetings, they've invested more time
and effort in this quarterback class.And I can ever remember a Giants team
doing in the past. Now we'rein a different era. Now we have

(07:19):
more access to information. So maybethey did it way back in the day
and I wasn't familiar with it,but all signs point to the fact that
they know that they've got a problemwith quarterbacks. So they went from not
having a lot of confidence in Jonesor wanting to check them out, to
Okay, we're going to give thema four year, one hundred and sixty
million dollars deal. We can getout of it in two years, but

(07:42):
it's still a huge investment to nowgoing after one year, six games,
we may have to get out ofthis again. So I think it's important
to discuss all of that because itimpacts what's going to happen going into this
draft, because it seems to bethat ownership, I'm sorry, management has
decided Jones, either because of aninjury issue or talent issue or both,

(08:09):
they may have to move on fromhim. And so I think all signs
point in that direction, and that'scoloring this whole process, and it also
colors everything that would happen before it, and then you know, they all
ties together. Yeah, I agreewith you, and I think a lot
of this is around. You know, are shown in Dable on the hot

(08:30):
seat if they don't turn it aroundthis year, because that's where you do
have to make a splash, andmaybe a quarterback change is the right call.
I'm not a huge proponent of goingquarterback, particularly trading up for a
quarterback, even if it is somebody. I'm not enamored with any of these
quarterbacks this year. All right,if they do end up going quarterback early

(08:52):
on, I like JJ McCarthy morethan the other guys, but even still,
I'm not willing to all additional draftcapital would move up to go take
him. And it's a predicament thatthey're in, right, because you give
this guy all this money and he'syour starter, right, so you're going
to spend if they stay where they'reat the sixth overall pick on a quarterback

(09:15):
to sit behind Daniel Jones. Ithink it's inevitable that we're moving on from
Daniel Jones. There's no question inanybody's mind there. But is this the
right year to move on from DanielJones? Or do you try to build
a team so that when you bringin that quarterback maybe next year through free
agency or the draft or what haveyou, they're set up for more success
because we still have so many holesthat need to be filled on this team.

(09:37):
We're not a quarterback away, We'renot a wide receiver away. We're
not one position away from being ableto compete in the playoffs and then ultimately
make a Super Bowl. I meanwe're a few years away from that at
best. So bringing in a quarterbackthis year to build a team up and
be competitive three years down the road, and then if they're successful, then

(09:58):
they're played out of the rookie deal, they're looking for big money, and
then you're back into the same situationthat you're in now. I don't really
see the logic there. But ifthey are enamored with one of these quarterbacks
and they need to make a splashbecause they're on the hot seat and all
that kind of stuff, I getit, you know, but it's really
not something that personally, I'd bethrilled if they did. Right. And

(10:22):
this is a great time for us, for you and I to be having
this conversation, because the franchise isat a pivot point. This is a
huge moment in the history of thefranchise. And I know that sounds over
the top, but I really thinkthat because the decision that they make at
quarterback right now is not only goingto impact the general manager and the head

(10:46):
coach's future, but it's going toimpact the team potentially for the next four
or five years at least, becauselook at the time, they've already invested
in Daniel Jones. Now we couldhave a whole separate podcast and Andiel Jones
and what went wrong? And coulddid it have to go this way?
And did he have a chance andall that. I think you can make
an arguments in both directions. Ithink you know, John Marra is correct,

(11:09):
and a certain extent is they've doneeverything to ruin ruin Daniel Jones,
and you can do it all overagain, and we could be having the
same conversation five or five years fromnow, which we don't. And that's
a legitimate, legitimate concern because ifyou trade up for one of these guys,
you're probably going to have to giveup next year's number one, which

(11:33):
could be very well, could bea top ten pick, because the rookie
rookie quarterbacks c J. Stroud aside, normally don't perform that well, and
a lot of the guys that giants, well, we will get into this
too, the two guys that Giantsmay have a shot at are the two
guys that may be best that youwant to sit on the bench for a

(11:54):
year and not throw in there rightaway. So if you trade Way next
year's number one and that ends upbeing number three pick in the draft and
the quarterback you pick this year isanother Daniel Jones or worse, then you
know you're you're wrecking the franchise atthat point. So that there's a I

(12:16):
don't want to sound too negative herebecause there's tremendous opportunity here too, and
we'll get into that too, butthere is a real, real this is
a very dangerous situation in a wayfor the Giants because they can mess this
up, mess this up. ButI think it comes down to a couple
of things that you've mentioned that wehave We have to admit our realities.
Fans don't like to hear this,but Shane and Dabiel are playing our coaching

(12:41):
and managing for their for their fortheir careers here. Unless John Marra has
come to them and said, regardlessof what happens in twenty twenty four,
you're going to be back here intwenty twenty five. You know, they
have to think in the back oftheir heads that they're a little bit on
the hot seat here. There arefans out there. It'sist that that bunk,

(13:05):
that that's not true. But that'snot the way the world works in
the NFL. Every year now we'reseeing a quarter of the coaches in the
NFL get fired and the coordinators thedefense of an offensive coordinators. Sometimes it's
even worse. Look at the Giants. They change two of their coordinators of
this offseason and have eleven new coaches. It's almost like it's almost like a
different coaching staff right now with theGiants in a way because they've made so

(13:30):
much turnover. And so the otherpoint is this is operating under the assumption
that the Giants don't have a quarterback. Now, you did say something that
some people won't agree with. Ithink the majority of fans do, but
a lot some fans will not agreewith that. They say, Daniel Jones
still isn't the problem, and hewill still be a starter, and if
you put a team around him,he'll still do a good enough job.

(13:54):
You still hear this coming out ofthe PR department when they do their podcasts
on Giants dot Com and things likethat, that, and again there's a
certain element of truth to it,but again there's the risk of the injury
reappearing, another neck injury, andyou know the problem with his play to
date and so forth. But ifyou accept the premise that the Giants don't

(14:16):
have a quarterback, they have toget a quarterback either this year or next
year. And that's the reality ofthe situation too. So the reality of
the situation is Shane and Dabele haveto fix this fairly quickly for their own
for their own futures. You know, they are doing what's best for the
Giants, but they're also doing what'sbest for them. Well, what's best

(14:39):
for the team is they've got tomove on from Daniel Jones at this point.
Now, Daniel Jones somehow has amiraculous season this year, I'll I'll
be the first to say I waswrong. I was wrong. Thank god
he turned out what a fantastic thingfor the Giant. But I don't think

(15:01):
that's going to happen. And they'vegot to get a quarterback. So the
question is, now, how doyou get that quarterback in this draft?
When you're picking six and we're inan unprecedented situation. I've never seen anything
like it where they're now talking aboutfour quarterbacks maybe being the first four picks
in this draft. We know CalebWilliams is going to Chicago. It sounds

(15:24):
like now it's that Jade and Danielsis going to Washington and that looks like
that's happening that. You know alot of people thought that was going to
happen, but it looks like thatis going to happen now. So what
does New England do. I havea hard time of them seeing them pass
on a quarterback unless they really don'tlike May or they don't like McCarthy.

(15:46):
If they don't like those two,then yeah, I could see them training
down. But in a normal draft, may would be the number one quarterback.
I have a hard time seeing thempassing on him. Stranger things have
happened. So then you get ina situation with either mayor McCarthy being there
at four, and you've got twoteams that have people are speculating are going

(16:07):
to trade down if there's a goodenough offer that's out there. And you
got Minnesota again, everyone's speculating this. There's nothing new. They've got two
first round draft picks. They canoffer both first round draft picks to move
up to that spot. So iffour quarterbacks do go early before the Giants
pick, or that's the threat.Do the Giants trade up, like you

(16:30):
said, do they stand pat ordo they trade back? And I think
you can make arguments and we canget into this. I think you can
make arguments for all three being goodoptions for the Giants. Some have more
risks than others, and obviously Ithink number one the most risky is trading
up, because if you're wrong,oh man, is that going to be

(16:51):
a mistake. But if you're rightand you get that franchise quarterback, if
you get that guy that's one ofthe top six quarterbacks in your conference,
then you're going to be a perennialthreat to get into the playoffs. That
that's what it comes down to.And I don't know if you feel the
same way that I do, butI think the way the NFL has evolved

(17:11):
now, I think it's always beenlike this, but it's more more more
like this than ever. If youdon't have the quarterback, you're dead in
the water. And I don't knowif you feel that the same way,
but that's where I am at rightnow, as a fan who's been watching
this game for decades, and youknow, everyone, you can look at
Mahomes and you can look at allthese other quart borough and so forth.

(17:32):
What makes these teams consistently competitive isthe quarterback situation. And that's I think
that's what they've got that we thinkright now. If I'm Joe Shane,
if I don't get my quarterback now, I'm going to have to get it
next year. And so that's whereI think they're approaching a so offseason.
Yeah, I agree with you,And to me, it's about timing,

(17:55):
right. I think when we tookDaniel it was not the right time to
go that high and a quarterback,you know, I mean, we take
Saquon could have had Josh Allen thatyear, you know. So it's all
about timing, and I don't knowif this is the right time to do
it. And it's all about systemfit and how they develop and the market
that they're in. And you know, a quarterback could have a horrible career

(18:19):
in New York, but if youwent to a smaller market, team could
be super successful and a better schemefit for them, whatever the case might
be. So there are a lotof variables involved with it. Don't get
me wrong, but I agree youneed a quarterback to be successful, but
without a team. I mean,if you trade up and then you give
up your first round pick next yearto get a quarterback, then you're also

(18:40):
handicapping yourself next year because then you'reyou're out a first round pick, you
know, And I think too manytimes you see franchises trying to make an
immediate impact like that, and theyshoot themselves in the foot, Like if
I'm looking at it from a riskperspective, trading up for a quarterback this
year, even if you think thatthey're gonna be the guy, which I

(19:03):
don't know if I believe any ofthose four are the guys. It's just
such a risky proposition and the likelihoodof you screwing yourself is way higher in
my eyes by comparison to trading down, which is my preference, loading up
on more bodies that we need tofill a variety of holes, and then

(19:25):
making a play for quarterback next year, you know, be it a trade,
free agent acquisition, through the draft, whatever the case might be.
If we're going to take a quarterbackthis year, and this is gonna piss
a ton of our listeners off.But I really like Joe Milton, and
people think that's insane. But ifI'm looking at it from a reality check

(19:51):
standpoint, you've allocated too much capmoney to Daniel Jones. You've shot yourself
in the foot there, and youneed to be accountable for the decision you
made. I don't care if itcame from Mara. I don't care if
Shane did it himself. However thatplayed out behind the scenes. The reality
is you paid Daniel Jones a contracthe, in theory, is going to
be healthy come training camp. Heis your starting quarterback. So you've got

(20:14):
to ride out that contract because bringingin another guy is just moving up that
next big contract that you're gonna haveto pay. So I don't respect the
salary, cap allocation and implications thatcome with taking a quarterback. Now I'm
looking at it and I'm not thrilledwith the proposition of Daniel Jones being the
starting quarterback going into this year.But one of these days we got to

(20:37):
realize that we got to bite thebullet and it's gonna suck for a couple
of years now. If you wantto bite that bullet now and then build
a franchise properly and then get aquarterback and be able to compete how you
should build a franchise. Great,you don't want to bite that bullet.
Now, you make the wrong call, you trade up, you get a
quarterback, doesn't pan out, you'rescrewed for. I mean five to six

(21:00):
could be a decade, you know. I mean we've been in that cycle
for how long now, you know? And then it turns into the same
revolving door where you bring in anew GM, you bring in a new
head coach, and then it doesn'twork out for a couple of years.
But they're plagued by the former regimeand what they did and who they signed
and who they drafted, and untilMara gives somebody a long release. I

(21:25):
mean, I like Shane and dayBall. I think they shouldn't be forced
to have to take a quarterback andprove themselves this year. They're still dealing
with the lingering issues that have comefrom former regimes, So I don't think
they should be on the hot seatthis year. I think you got to
give them another four years to seewhat they can do. They're smart guys,
they're capable. They have their lockerroom respect. I think that they're

(21:48):
in a better position than some ofthe folks who have come before them have
been in. So I'd rather investin them long term and give them the
flexibility to build things the right way. By comparison to you know, the
fans are pissed. We got toget a quarterback and really get the offense
going, or we're screwed. Youknow, the fans are going to be
pissed if you get that wrong andyou give up more draft capital. You

(22:10):
know, like you're you're screwed eitherway. So I'd rather take being screwed
in the short term this year,build a franchise where we need to fill
other holes, and then go aftera quarterback next year. Or if we
need a quarterback this year, youwait for a guy like Joe Milton.
Now, Joe Milton's got the size, he's got the arm. You can
question his decision making till the cowscome home. I get it. But

(22:33):
if you look at how he didthroughout the pre draft process here, he
was super accurate at the combine,had a good Senior Bowl, Brode lit
it up. He's got some knockson him that are in the vein of
like a Josh Allen and an adjalenthurts multiple systems, you know, inaccurate
ad times. YadA, YadA,YadA. If you actually gave him the
tutelage or somebody like a day balla Kafka and help develop him, he's

(22:59):
somebody where if you're looking at somebodyin the fourth, fifth, sixth round,
which is where most people are projectinghim going, that's where I could
see a draft capital allocation this yearat the quarterback position, because then Daniel's
your guy. If he somehow fallsapart, then you've got somebody where boom
or bust. Let's see if hecan handle the stage and we're not limping
out Tyrod and Tommy DeVito, youknow. And then if he pans out,

(23:23):
great, then you hit on alate round quarterback and then the problem
solved. You still have your firstnext year, YadA, YadA, YadA.
If not, then you're gonna keephim on the roster to develop him
a couple more years. You onlygot Drew locked for one year, so
then at least you know you stillgot somebody developmental in the back burner there.
And then if you need to goquarterback early on in the draft next
year, then put all the chipsin the center of the table and go

(23:45):
all in for it. But Ijust don't see a reality where taking a
quarterback, and particularly trading up fora quarterback right now, is really going
to get us to the promised landthat everybody hopes that it will. Right.
Well, there's a lot to unpackedthere and a lot of it that
Well, it goes back to this. It goes with my initial comment in

(24:06):
this is what And I've seen punditstalk about this on TV this week and
last week. You've seen pundits comeon and say, I can't see this
franchise moving on from Daniel Jones afterthey gave him the contract that they gave

(24:26):
last year. At these are thepundits saying this. Now, this gets
back to my initial comment. Ithink the franchise was moving on in twenty
twenty two. They didn't do thefifth year option again, they didn't extend
or try to extend Saquon early.They gotted the forty million, they let
Brad Berry go, et cetera,et cetera, et cetera, and that

(24:49):
obviously changed the following year. Again. Why that changed again, we may
never know, but it changed.So the question is this, and this
is what the pundits are having theproblem with, is does this franchise reverse
course and go back to their originalplan now and say we screwed up.
Twenty twenty three was an off season, was a mess up. We messed

(25:12):
up, and we're going to goback and we're going to fix this the
way we should have fixed it backin twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three.
In that offseason, the Saquon lettingSaquon leave seems to suggest to me
they're going to go back and doit the way they intended to do it.
However, we don't know if that'sgoing to be the case, So

(25:34):
I would not completely discount I'm notsaying this is going to happen, but
I would not completely discount those whoare out there who say they're still going
to give Daniel Jones a shot,they're going to try to build the team
around him. Do I think that'sgoing to happen. I don't think the
signs are there. Again, Idon't bring in six quarterbacks, spend one

(25:56):
fifth of all of my pre draftvisits and quarterback I don't go out the
dinner with them for private meetings.I don't have all these combine meetings with
them. I don't go all ofthe combine work on the pro day workouts
where you bring the head coach andthe GM and all these guys tag along
unless you're really really interested in gettinga new quarterback. So I think that

(26:19):
I think that's there, And Ithink that also impacts what you're talking about
right now too, in that Ihave posted on the site that if worst
case scenario, if they can't getsomething done, I would have no problem
with them taking a late round flyeron Joe Milton. Now what's out there
now is some teams think so poorlywith him as a quarterback that they're thinking

(26:41):
of converting him to a tight end. But man, the guy looks like
he was built to be a quarterback. His size arm, I mean,
he's got the strongest arm in hisdraft. It's unbelievable. And I was
watching and it's always dangerous to watchthe highlight clause, but I was watching
him. As you know, whenhe rent, he can run outrun defensive
backs and he can run over linebackers. I mean, if you just were

(27:04):
going to invent a quarterback physically,he'd be what you'd want. I mean,
the guy. The guy's like six' five, he just looks,
he looks the part. He lookslike you want a quarterback to look like.
So I won't. But that tome is like a one in a
thousand shot that he pans out again. I would it gets to the point
where you've got to take if youcan't get if things don't work out,

(27:25):
you've got to take a quarterback someplaceand rely on your coaching staff to try
to maybe develop some guys. SoI'm not discounting it, and I've had
the same thought as you did,but I would not count on it.
So where the giants are right nowin my mind with this as the quarterback
is this is And we can getinto this in a second two about I'm

(27:48):
leaning more towards trading down right now, but it depends on the offer.
It depends on the offer. ButI think unless one of these poor guys
lasts to six, I think Pennixand Knicks are being underappreciated by some.
And I think if it wasn't forthe injury situation, and that's the biggest

(28:11):
red red flag and the biggest unknownis with Penix, is it really relies
on your team doctors, so thatyou know, when Pennix comes in and
visits the Giants, their doctors arelooking at his knees, so you know
what are the doctors saying at thatpoint. He also had those shoulders injuries,
but he's been healthy for the lasttwo years. There's that. So
if Pennix was healthy, he'd bein the discussion right now for what we're

(28:33):
talking about in the top top sixpicks. And I wouldn't put it past
the Giants to draft him at six. I really would if the doctors have
no problems with him physically. Now. I know, I know that's a
lot of people out there are gonnago, oh, you got to be
kidding me. But I think interms of his ability to throw the ball,
the way he processes the game,the way he stays in the pocket

(28:55):
and he throws from the pocket.I'm a big fan of quarterbacks who don't
start scrambling around with the first signof trouble. I think Penix Pannix is
one of these guys who stay inthe pocket and he'll throw from the pocket,
and he can hurt you with hisfeet if need be. He's not
that kind of guy, but hecan do that. He ran a four
or five in his proday, forGod's sakes, but I would not put

(29:18):
it past them to take him atsix. My preference would be the trade
down and maybe take a look athim. And I also think bow Knicks
is getting pigeonholed by a lot ofpeople here because of the system. He
was in college and at his secondstop rather than earlier in his career.
You know, he the pigeonholed him. Is a West Coast quarterback. He

(29:41):
throws a lot of screen and shortpasses, but he can't throw down the
field. He's got a good enougharm to throw all the different kinds of
passes in the NFL. I'm notagain, I'm not advocating saying draft bowl
Necks draft bow Knicks, but Ithink bow Knicks and he visited the Giants.
It was either today or yesterday,but he's visited the Giants. He's

(30:02):
another one of those guys. Soif you trade back, then you start
thinking about Pennix, and then youstart thinking about Nix. And again,
I wouldn't completely discount I would notcompletely discount Pennix at six. I don't
think it's gonna happen, But ifyou tell me Jance draft Pennis at six.
I would not be going, ohmy goodness, where did that come

(30:22):
from? That would not shock meat this point. But the way I
look at this is this, theygot to get the quarterback this year or
next year, because I don't thinkthey have the four years that you're hoping
that they have. I think theycan get another two years, but at
the end of the next end ofthe two years, they better be around

(30:42):
eight and eight. I'm going offthe old schedule eight to nine, nine
and eight somewhere around that. Andthe needle's pointing up because you've got people
out there unemployed like Rabel Bill Belichick'sout there. You got you know,
Mara is already already show that he'she'll pull the leash on He may not

(31:03):
pull the leash on Daniel Jones,but he'll pull the leash on general managers
and head coaches at this point,so I think they've got to get somebody
in the building number one, becauseI do think they're going to get rid
of Daniel Jones next year. Iwouldn't be shocked at somehow they sat him
this year because you know, ifI understand it correctly, if he gets

(31:25):
hurt again, they're on the hookfor another twenty three million, and I
would be really worried about playing him, just like Denver was with Russell Wilson
last year towards the end of theseason, where they where they said,
you know what's too it's too greata risk to even have this guy out
there. So I think they theyunless they have a really high opinion and
Drew Locke and then and Devido,I think they've got the game plan.

(31:53):
It's got to be get the quarterbacknow or get the quarterback next year.
And the fact that they're looking atquarterbacks so heavily right now, I think
they're trying to get the quarterback thisyear. I heard they were, and
this was back in February. Iheard they were really really high on Caleb
Williams. Yeah everyone is, Andthey were really really high on May.

(32:14):
This was again, this was backNow. They've done a lot of work
on the quarterback since then. Thingsmay have changed. Other quarterbacks may be
in the picture now, but thoseare the two guys I heard back then.
I think they I think they reallylike May. But I don't know
if May is going to get backpast New England and if they and but
if New England doesn't like him,I could see them being possibly interested in

(32:37):
trading down with the Giants. Sothe scenarios that I see, and we
can hit these one at a time, one at a time, is again
the trade up, stand stay putand see what fault what comes to you.
If the quarterbacks are gone and noone gives you a really really good

(32:57):
offer for the trade down, youstay at six and you take one of
those stud wide receivers, or ifsomebody blows your socks away with a trade,
you move down and you see who'savailable at that point. Because the
Giants could go in a number ofdifferent directions, and this gets back to
what you were talking about on thisroster. They could use a cornerback,

(33:20):
they could use a I think they'reone three technique defensive tackle away from having
a really dominant defensive front. Theycould use more help on the offensive line.
They could use that quarterback, asyou mentioned again in that Nix Pennock
scenario, seems more acceptable if youtrade back a little bit. But there's
a lot a lot of ways theGiants could go. I mean, we

(33:42):
could look at tight end in thefirst round. There's a lot of places
that the Giants could go, soI would not discount moving down. And
I think the sweet spot in thisdraft is the second round, and it
usually is. I really they thinkthe most underrated round in every draft is
the second round, but I thinkso particularly this year, and if we

(34:05):
can get another second round pick wherewe get a late first round pick in
addition to you know, one ofthe mid mid round first round pick,
then you may even trade down.Again, it just depends on who's there.
But I think there's so many needson this team that you can't completely
discount it. Now, the tradeoff on that again is you're missing out

(34:27):
on that stud wide receiver, thatpotential difference maker. So the question comes
at what is the team offering anddo you want to pass on that guy?
And that's really what it's going tocome down to. And I wonder
at times are the Giants leaking outinformation that they're leaking out right now because

(34:47):
they actually want some of these otherguy other teams to think certain things so
they could possibly maybe move around theboard a little bit. The last thing
I'll throw out there, and I'mthrowing a lot of things out there,
is this is I have a hardtime sitting and seeing being in Chaine's shoes
right now and saying I'm okay withsix picks in this draft, or I'm

(35:09):
okay with fewer than six picks ifI trade up, so that I you
know that, I have a hardtime seeing him not wanting to have more
picks than that, and that factorsinto this too. And the other thing
with with that is, again,if four quarterbacks go before the Giants,

(35:29):
that means the Giants will have thesecond non quarterback sitting in their lap,
and a lot of teams that aren'tgoing to be drafting quarterback are going to
value that pick. So they're goingto look at those wide receivers. They're
going to look at you know,Joe Alt and the other offensive lineman that
could potentially be their bowers at tightend. There's going to be teams behind

(35:51):
the Giants that might say, youknow, we didn't need a quarterback,
but man, we want that offensivelineman, or man, we really want
we want neighbors a wide receiver andwe'll give up a fortune to get that
guy. And if somebody comes tome with that deal, and I'm Shane,
I got to listen to that,So through a lot no, yeah,
no, I appreciate it, andI agree with a lot of what

(36:13):
you're saying and the thing I've beentelling myself, and this is just me,
you know, praying, But Idoubt it's the reality of the situation.
How savvy would it be to becreating this smoke screen that the Giants
are desperate for a quarterback to forcea team like Minnesota or Las Vegas or

(36:36):
the Broncos to have to jump upto get that guy ahead of them,
and then in turn that kicks JoeWall or an extra wide receiver down,
so that it's not like, youknow, maybe they like Harrison and Neighbors
or Harrison and the donsday and thenthey know Harris is gonna go. But
if they are able to get youknow, one of the two something like

(36:58):
that, then it puts them ina better situation, or it gives them
a better optionality of potentially having tradepartners to look at trading down. I
mean, I'm a huge advocate oftrading down. We have so many holes
to fill. I don't think thattaking a quarterback or taking a wide receiver
is going to solve the problem.If we don't go trading up for a

(37:19):
quarterback. I mean, I thinkit's crazy to reach on somebody like a
Penix or Nicks Penix. The injuryhistory scares the shit out of me.
The fact that he's a left handedquarterback. Going back to the tutelage I
got from Dave t, left handedquarterbacks are just a lot to have to
contend with. You're flipping the Imean, then you've got Evan Neil,
who's a problem in it them himselfas the blind side blocker for an injury

(37:45):
prone Michael Pennox. You and I'veheard that, and no, no,
I don't mean interrup before we moveon, But I'm not making my quarterback
decision based on my right tackle.If Evan Neil can't play in this league,
you move on. You know thatthat going up say this, and
I'm not discounting what you're saying atall, but I'm not letting Evan Neil
dictate who my quarterback is at thispoint. And that's been a talking point

(38:07):
that's been on the site. Butif Pennis again, it sounds like I'm
lobbing for Pennocks, but I do. If you look terms of throwing the
football, if you like McCarthy,I'm not sure why you don't like Pennix.
But that's another discussion. But don'tlet now let you continue, but
don't let the right tackle determine yourquarterback. That's all I know. But

(38:30):
if you're if you're gonna draft Penix, be it at six or at the
top of the second, you're goingto move back up into the first,
or if you trade down and youget like you're there's still an anticipation then
that he is going to play thisyear. And when are you drafting the
tackle to replace Neil or to kickNeil inside? You know? Or we
do we really have faith that yourMaine Illuminaori is going to solve all of

(38:53):
our woes at right tackle. Istill think you're just putting Pennis in such
a precarious situation that if you're reallyrolling the dice and trying to turn things
around them, and you talk abouta risky roll the dice, that to
me is one of the riskiest rolesthat well, because you're replacing an injury

(39:13):
prone quarterback with another guy who's hadfour college injuries. It's a but the
giant that this is the problem.And again it sounds like I'm lobbing for
Penix. I'm throwing this out therebecause look, I said this morning on
the website, the last quarterback Ipounded the table for was and this is
going way back, was Achille Smith. And I was really wrong on that.

(39:35):
You're never gonna hear me pound fora quarterback because I'm like most of
the teams out there, I can'tpick quarterbacks. The NFL has a train
wreck at grading quarterbacks and I andI'm in that category too. I'm just
saying that I bet you any amountof money right now that some quarterback,
a couple of these quarterbacks that gohigh are going to be bought. And

(40:00):
some of the quarterbacks that we're talkingabout that we think we're day two might
end up being better than the guysthat were. It happens all the time,
and I'm just so, but you'reright, it's a huge And that's
why I would move down. That'swhy that's why I would I would go
trade down. And then again,you're risking at that point the Raiders could

(40:23):
trade in front of you, orDenver could trade in front of you.
But at that point, then Iyou know what I adjust. I say,
well, christ we need we needa corner back or we need an
offensive lineman or we man. Wecould get the best defensive tackle out there,
or get the best guard slash tacklecombo out there. There are so
many good offensive linemen in this draft, so I wouldn't panic at that point.

(40:46):
And I think what's interesting is ifyou look at the thirty visits,
the Giants are looking at a lotof guys that aren't going to be that
should not be in the conversation atsix, but they're not going to be
there at forty seven either, Sothey seem to be looking at a lot
of guys that are going to fallbetween those two picks. I've had that
very interesting. I also find itvery interesting by the way that of all

(41:09):
the thirty visits only that there havebeen no wide receivers except the top three.
I think that's that's what. They'vehad six quarterbacks visit and they've only
had three the three top wide receiversvisit. And if you look at the
rest of the list of who's onthere in terms of a lot of defensive
tackles, a lot of cornerbacks andsafeties. I'm sorry, defensive backs.

(41:30):
It's just cornerbacks. And I thinkthey had a safety. A lot of
offensive linemen so it's interesting. It'sinteresting to see who's out there. So
I agree with you, Pennis isvery, very risky. But the John
Fortunately, the Giants are in ashot in a position here where they're gonna
If they trade up in draft McCarthy, that's a risk. If they trade
back and draft Penix, that's arisk they're not going to have a shot

(41:53):
at Williams or Daniels. So doyou punt? Do you punt? Or
do you do what you said andjust ignore the quarterback until later rounds and
draft like a Joe Milton or oneor a Rattler or one of these other
guys that's the question. Yeah,or wait to take your quarterback next year
and goild your franchise this year,you know, which is where That's what

(42:15):
I want to be. Yeah,and that's certainly doable too. That's another
option is wait a year, yep, Because like you said, offensive line
talent incredible. I would love tosee. I mean, Joe All would.
I would not be mad at allif Joe All is a pick at
six, I mean, an incredibleprospect that I think is being slightly overlooked

(42:36):
right now, just because everybody isinfatuated with the quarterbacks and the wide receivers.
But this is a premiere first roundfor offensive lineman, and lord knows,
we do not have a full offensiveline. So again you're worried about
Daniel Jones getting hurt. The bestremedy for that is drafting offensive lineman.
And I agree with you there issome good meat and potatoes in the second

(42:59):
round. And I also think thethird round. I think you can get
a quality wide receiver or offensive linemanin the third round, even a cornerback.
But which are all I would sayour top three needs right now.
And it's it's a tough thing tojuggle. But if we trade down and
we're able to get somebody like Fatanuor a Fuaga or you know, any

(43:24):
of these guys, you know,like, yeah, how good would those
guys the two guys I know,the giants, And how comfortable would you
be? I mean, I'm confidentthat you're hitting with those guys every other
scenario we've discussed so far. Asman, I hope it pans out,

(43:45):
you know, and that I justdon't understand why you want to play it
so risky with so much on theline, when you have opportunities to take
more of a sure thing. Takinga top wide receiver, you don't have
the quarterback that's gonna get him theball. I mean, we haven't been
able to get Dale Robinson and Jalenhy at the ball, So I don't

(44:06):
see the rationale behind I mean,I get it. I love Roma Dunza,
and if I'm picking one of thebetween him and Neighbors, I'm going
Rome all day. We haven't hada big physical presence like that in forever.
But at the same time, ishe going to get the immediate production?
Probably not, So why not builda franchise? Why not trade down,
get more draft picks, and thenget an offensive lineman that you can

(44:29):
slide in help Evan Neil on theright side, be it Evan moves into
guard or he stays a tackle,Just trying to solidify that side of the
line a bit more. Assuming thatRunion's gonna slide in it left guard,
that makes so much more sense tome, and I'm very confident that with
one of those guys you can hiton that pick. Not to mention,

(44:49):
those three guys that we just outlinedhave positioned versatility at guard and tackle,
which is something that with the uncertaintyaround Evan Neil would not be a bad
thing to he have right now.So outside of the quarterback talk, and
ideally i'd love to see another offensivelineman there, but I think, you
know, we've been able to alsoaddress the fact that we need a cornerback.

(45:14):
There's nobody outside of Deontay Banks.And one of the other crazy topics
that we've talked about on the showpreviously is quinnyon Mitchell at six. You
know, where is it too crazy? When you look at the first cornerbacks
that go off the board most years, it's somewhere in that four or five

(45:35):
six range. And he is theprototype. He's been able to handle the
entire draft process every stage. He'sgot the intangibles, he's got the playmaking
ability, production. I think he'sgot to be in the mix, at
least from a consideration standpoint. Idon't want to go that route because I
think it's a deeper drafted cornerback.My guy is Kyrie Jackson. Would love

(45:57):
to see him in the second orthird round in the kid out Oregon,
big body guy, ballhawk instincts,knows what he's doing long arms. We
need to address cornerback, and I'mkind of curious, like if they did
go quarterback at six, right,and then you've got needs it offensive line,
defensive line, cornerback, wide receiver, tight end. Right, of

(46:21):
course, that we're I know that, we're actually I know so that and
that's where I'm saying trade back,and it sounds like you are as well.
Let's load up on some of ourbodies, particularly with the horrific hit
rate we've had on Day two andDay three with our draft picks. Every
we go into these drafts every yearlike oh yeah, well, we'll just

(46:42):
hit on all six of our draftpicks this year and everything will be okay.
The way things have played out thelast few years, we might hit
on two of those six draft picks, you know, So there's still going
to be so many more holes thatwe need to figure out. I'm curious
to get your take on out ofall these positions of need, which ones

(47:05):
do you prioritize. Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. But I
want to touch on something you said, because you and I are sort of
thinking along the same lines here.So Mitchell was the cornerback position, the
two get the two first round cornersthere, and again, if I'm playing
four d chests. All right,Shane was pissed off last year when it

(47:29):
comes or two years ago when hecomes from Buffalo and he finds out that
the New York media finds out aboutthe thirty visits much easier than they found
out in Buffalo. He publicly mentionedthat. He said it in a press
conference. It irritated him because itsort of telegraphed telegraph things. The four
of the people they took last yearwere in their thirty visits, including Hawkins,

(47:51):
which they took in the sixth round. So it shows you that the
thirty visits. So Shane knows this, and he knows that it's going to
get out. I'm playing four Dchess. I'm not saying I'm not saying
he's doing this, but I'm saying, boy, this would be something.
Talk up the quarterbacks. Yeah,teams to get somebody again, you're picking

(48:13):
at six, get another team todraft a quarterback before you, and then
you push all those other non quarterbacksdown. And then you get these teams
who are desperate for the wide receiveror the or the offensive lineman calling you
saying we will trade down, oror say McCarthy does last to four and

(48:38):
all these teams say, geez,the Giants have been tied with McCarthy.
They must they must really like him. If we're gonna take him, we're
gonna have to blow them away withan offer. So so if you are
able to trade down, so thecornerback, for instance, I wouldn't take
at six, but I would tradedown with the Jets or the Bears or

(49:02):
somewhere in that neighborhood, and thenand then reevaluate, because I might even
trade down again at that point,depending if somebody else, even someone is
Bowers still on the board, andsomebody really wants Bowers. So what I'm
saying is I look at what likeArizona's new GM did and maneuver around the
board and that, and I'm alittle bit envious of that I and I

(49:23):
think I think Shane does have alittle bit of that in him. We've
seen him much more willing to moveup and down with this team than his
predecessors have been. So to tiein with the question that you asked me,
I would, And we'll get intothe and I'll get into the positions
I would be if I'm not goingafter that wide receiver, if I'm if

(49:45):
if if some I am going todefinitely trade down at that point, provide
it again. You know, ifthe Giants don't trade down, people say,
well, they didn't even try totrade down. You have to have
somebody offer you a good deal too. They may not get a good six.
If they don't, then they'll,you know, they'll take the wide
receiver. To me, that tome, they're in a they're in a

(50:06):
really good position in this sense.They could just stand pat and take arguably
a wide receiver that will be oneof the best in franchise history if he
stays healthy, because I remember thatthe top foot wide receiver in franchise history
was Tumor and then you know O'Dellhad his three or four years there where
he was on fire before he gothurt. But you know, the chance,

(50:30):
you know, could be taking areceiver that becomes an all time franchise
great at that at that spot.So to me, that if that's your
worst case scenario, that's that's fantastic, And that's why I would not move
down unless somebody blows you away withsomething. I'm not moving down for a
third round pick. You know,you know, if if you'll we'll move

(50:51):
up a few spots. But wewant, we'll give you a three.
I'm like, no, you know, I'll be like, go to hell.
I'm not doing that. But ifsomebody really blows you away, you
know, to me ideal that ifMcCarthy's still there. The Giants really didn't
like McCarthy, but they wanted peopleto think that way. And then in
Minnesota at that point gives us boththeir number one picks at that spot.
I mean, that would be fantasticfor the Giants if you think they have

(51:15):
to dress all these needs. Nowthe flip side of that, because we're
gonna have a lot of listeners outthere going you're passing up an all star
potential wide receiver, and they havea point and and you know, it
depends on how much you value youknow, how much how much do you
think football is a game of theYou know, our games won in the

(51:36):
NFL because you have truly special playerson your team and you can fill in
the rest with one year free agentsand and and go that route for our
teams. You know, do youhave more solid areas on your team built
through the draft with first, second, third, fourth round picks, Because
if it's the latter, the Giantshave to get more picks than they have

(51:59):
right now because they don't have enough. And the other last thing before we
get on the well, actually thisties in with your question. What has
been the problem for this team inthe division for a decade is they can't
compete in the trenches. They playDallas and they played Philadelphia and they get

(52:19):
their asses kicked because Philadelphia and Dallaskicks their ass in the trenches. It's
been going on for ten years.And it doesn't matter who's playing quarterback or
who's that wide receiver or who's attight end. They get they get.
They can't block the block, theprotect the quarterback, and they can't block
the run. And on defense theycan't stop the run. And Wink Winks

(52:42):
out of here for a reason too. It isn't just the Shenanigans. See
his defenses couldn't stop the run andand and ever since Justin Tuck left in
that crew, we can't rush thepasser consistently. So if the answer your
question, I would like to seethem address the trenches. So that's why
I think one of the under reported, under appreciated. I think you see

(53:07):
fans talking about it on the website, but I think if they could get
another sort of pass rushing three techniquedefensive tackle to go along with Dexter Lawrence,
and now you have Burns, andBurns is someone we should also include
as part of this draft. Hereally was so Burns Burns was a Christmas
present early to get him for asecond round draft pick plus a lot of

(53:29):
money. But if you get himfor a second round, he's a first
round talent. So if the Giantshad not gotten him, we'd be talking
about defensive sorry, outside linebacker,edge players right now in the first round.
But because they got him for asecond round or they don't have to
do that was a really good movefor them, and it took a major
need off the board. But ifyou have Burns, Thibodeau, Dexter Lawrence

(53:50):
and you get another somebody like Newtonnext to them, holy hell, you
know, trying to block that front. I'd love to see that. That's
one of my dream scenarios would besomehow the Giants trade down a couple of
times and add Newton to the mixbecause or somebody like him. I don't
think they need another big body,run stuff for a kind of guy.

(54:12):
They've got that with Davidson, andthey've got that with Riley behind Dexter Lawrence.
But they need to get somebody toreplace the Leonard Williams spot. And
if you can get and the onething that this new defensive coordinator we have
Bowen likes is he likes rushing fourand he likes the four to get the
heat on the quarterback. He doesn'tlike to do a lot of blitzing.
He'll do simulated blitzes and creeper blitzesand things like that with they'll rush four

(54:37):
and drop other people in the coverage. But he likes rushing four and playing
coverage. So if you get anotherguy in the front four, that that
turns that front scary good. Ithink that's a I think that's one of
the one of the top needs onthis team, because then you're starting to
form an identity on defense. You'restarting to get you're starting to go back

(54:59):
to the old Giants ball to whereyou're saying, we're gonna get after the
quarterback and we're gonna hurt the otherguys and you're not gonna have enough time
to throw the football. So itdoesn't matter as much as who we have
in the secondary. So that thatthat defensive tackle spot I think is a
real is a real need, andthen I would like you know, they

(55:20):
signed five offensive linemen and free agency. Three of them are backup types.
Depends on what you think of Iluminaor he still could possibly be an as
sending player and running running was was. It's not ideal, but he's he's
a safe player and he doesn't giveup a lot of sacks. So the

(55:42):
offensive line should be a lot better. But I agree with you, I
would, you know, add somebodyin like the guys that we were mentioning,
would really would really add a lotto the offensive line. But then
you can look at other positions.Corner, like we said, we need
another corner. Safety is going tobe big in this defense because Bowen likes

(56:02):
to use a lot of split safetycoverage from what I what I can see,
and that means playing more deep safety. So we lost McKinney and I'm
not sure pinnecting Belton that's their best. Uh. They tend to be more
closer to the line of scrimmage guys. So and I'm not saying safety early.
I'm saying, but you're they're gonnastart looking at safeties at least by

(56:24):
the third round. I think andpossibly higher, but I don't think think
they'll do in the second round.But they'll be looking at safety, corner
safety, that three techniques spot ondefense and then on offense. They've got
to they got to get players tothe score points. So adding another running
back would be nice. And thethe nice thing about this draft is I

(56:45):
think the under the running back classis really underrated. I think there are
a number of guys that are goingto go in that third round area,
upper third round area, and wemight get a shot at a at a
pretty decent guy without having, youknow, having to spend a second round
pick on him. And you know, they could use another tight end.

(57:06):
Who knows what's going on with withwith Darren Waller. I'm not relying on
Lawrence Cager to be my pass receivingtight end. They've got they signed two
blocking tight ends. There will bea major upgrade because we haven't had any
blocking tight ends and this roster andsometime but depending how Daniel Benlinger does,
we really need to have another tightend. If you if assuming Darren Waller

(57:28):
is on the way out, Idon't know what's going on with him,
but if he's talking about retirement now, you got to think that he's not
long for this team at some point. Anyways, Yeah, it's definitely imminent,
and I mean also buy in fromother guys on that side of the
ball. How do you convince themto play their hearts out every week when
you've got a guy who's kind ofin limbo and ready to retire and not

(57:50):
giving it a one hundred and tenpercent, is probably going to get injured
if he plays this year. Uh, he's not going to compete in every
game and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I think that's a
locker room missue compounded with everything elsearound him. But I agree on defensive
line, Fisk is a guy thatcan out of Florida State just absolute animal

(58:13):
in the trenches, and I thinkadding to the defensive line, then I
want to be in a place wherethe folks we have in the trenches keeps
the other side of the ball fromthe opponent's side up at night, where
you know you've got Brian Burns CaveonThibodeau Dexter Lawrence. I mean, you've
got to allocate at least two offensivelinemen to Dexter Lawrence to slow him down.

(58:37):
You've got to allocate probably two offensivelinemen to either Caveon or Brian Burns,
and then one to the other.So that's already five offensive linemen.
And then if you could add somebodysneaky into that other defensive tackle spot that
can actually rush the passer, Imean, you're pretty screwed as an offense.
So I think doing something like that, and then contrarily, on the

(58:59):
other side of the all filling thegap with us from meire offensive linemen where
there isn't a hole, because asI look at it right now, if
I'm a defensive coordinator, I'm justgoing after the Evan Neil side, and
you know, I know I couldblow that up every day of the week
and get to Daniel or whoever andcreate a lot of havoc in the backfield,

(59:19):
slow you down the run game,everything in between. So I do
agree with you that fortifying the trenchesis probably the most imperative piece of the
puzzle in this draft. And Ireally hope they go high on both those
picks within the first three rounds becauseI think that there's quality talent there.
And then it starts to tear offa bit on Day three. But I
think running back tight end wide receiver. You can get some quality folks there

(59:46):
on day three. Those are alldeep positions. That safety is another one
that you could add somebody on daythree and you know, get a rotation
guy. If you hit on him, great, we'll see. But curious
if you had to ignore us,assume that we don't trade down at all,
we don't acquire any additional draft capital, and we need to plug all

(01:00:08):
these holes that we've identified. Ifyou had to forego one position in this
year's draft, what position group areyou comfortable overlooking. Oh that's a really
good that's a really good question.And it's funny that when you were listing
all these positions and needs and Iwas nodding my head and thinking, we

(01:00:30):
don't have that many picks, especiallyif you trade up, you're not going
to even less. And again,I want the listeners out there to understand
this is I want that wide receiverat six, I really do. But
I just don't know if that's aluxury this team can afford. I just

(01:00:51):
don't you know. And people aregoing to call, oh, there's other
drafts, blah blah. I justdon't know. Right now, we're kind
of in an arms race with therest to the division. Okay, so
Philadelphia may or may not be intransition. Dallas certainly is. You know,
those are two teams that are interestingthat you know, they're they've been
sort of the top of the topof the division. And but it's also

(01:01:16):
wouldn't shock anybody to see them gothrough coaching changes this upcoming offseason if things
don't go go the right way forthem, because the expectations are so high
in both those both those franchises,and Washington's going to have the new quarterback
with new ownership and so forth,So the Giants have to The Giants have
to keep building here or they're gonnaWe're going to become the fourth place the

(01:01:39):
team in this division, and therethere are a lot of needs. So
I want that wide receiver. Ijust questioned, do we have do we
have? You know? Is thata luxury for us right now? But
at the same time, I don'twant to see Neighbors or Odensee or or
Harrison terrorizing other teams. And wesaid, oh man, we could have

(01:01:59):
had one of those guys. SoI don't know. So again I'm thinking
out loud, I'm talking to you. But the question is this is I
don't think the way I would approachit right now is this is the Giants
have so many needs on their teamthat I would pass on the guy that's
not worth it. So if there'ssomebody there that's a really good I mean

(01:02:22):
a really good running back and yourcornerback that's there is he's some guy who's
on your board, but he's notreally he's not really the guy that you
really wanted. I'd take the runningback and then next year I'd get the
corner or I would you know,I would look at maybe signing a veteran
in free agency. I'll give youan example. Safety is one position where

(01:02:45):
there are still a number of veteransout there in free agency that can start
on the Giants, and I thinkthese guys are waiting until after the draft
when teams are going to have toup some of their offers when they weren't
able to you know, and yousee it every year. You know veterans
out there who should be signed andhe's not signed, but he's waiting for

(01:03:06):
some team that didn't address the needin the draft and you know, up
the contract. So safety is inone of the positions I think that would
be the if I was going toanswer your question point blank safety because I
can. I think they can geta veteran that's still out there right now
to come in and start on thisteam. And then and I think we've
got some interesting guys. You know, I did the question where the Belton

(01:03:27):
can be a player in this defense. He might be, but you know,
you got ja Various Owens last yearwho impressed the coaching staff and he
certainly has the athleticism to play playdeeper in the secondary. They got Jalen
Mills as a veteran free agent andfree agency so that that would be the
one position. What I what I'mgoing and this is what you've been getting

(01:03:49):
at. What I'm having issues withis this is every time I look at
the second round, at our pickforty seven and the third round pick,
I say, oh, I wantthis guy, and then I go,
but if we draft this guy,we're going to miss out on that guy
and we really need that guy.And that's where we're at right now.
And that's why the trade down thingis appealing to me so much, is

(01:04:12):
because if we can add another secondrounder or add another third rounder, and
if somebody wants to get crazy andgive us another first rounder. That's where
I'm like, we can address anumber of different positions and really and people
will say, well, you're missingout on an impact player at six.
Yeah, but I think that,like we said, the defensive tackle can

(01:04:34):
be an impact player on this defensebecause I think not just because of him
alone, but the multiplier effect hehas on Burns, the multiplier effect he
has Antibodeaux in Dexter Lawrence and youknow you're double teaming Dexter Lawrence and you
leave a stud three technique defensive tacklealone on a guard and he's getting sacks.

(01:04:56):
Fantastic. So the flip side ofthat is the wide receiver issue is
this is he can have a multipliereffect on the entire offense too, because
and this is what John Schmilk atGiants dot Com has been arguing, is
if you put Neighbors or a Dunseein there with Hyatt and Robinson and Slayton,

(01:05:19):
he makes all those guys better andhe changes the way the defense plays
it. So you could you couldmake I think there is not a wrong
answer for the Giants if they stayput and take a wide receiver or if
they trade back again, provided theyget appropriate compensation and address a number of

(01:05:41):
different positions. They also it wouldbe a smart decision if they traded up
and got and we're sure to getthat franchise quarterback, but we don't know
that. That's the problem is therisk is so great on the franchise guy.
And again maybe that's the route togo, and they and they're staking
their careers on it, and it'san all or nothing. It's an all

(01:06:04):
or nothing thing because if you hiton the franchise quarterback, your goal.
But if they don't and they theywith and options two and three that you
and I, you and I havebeen talking about are off the table at
that point, then you have nothing. So you can make a case for
all three. But if you dothe one where you trade up, you
better be you better be right.I mean you if they could trade up

(01:06:26):
for me and and he's your guy, you better get that right. And
the other question is if he's yourguy, is he a guy that you
Is he better off sitting a yearor sitting half a year? And you
know, even Eli sat half ayear when they drafted him. But you

(01:06:46):
know, there was a great discussionI saw the other day where Matt Waldman
was on and he's a bit ofa guru when it comes to quarterbacks,
and he really likes Penics and Mixand he talks about the reason why they're
ahead of the others is because oftheir ability to process. And I think
what he was getting at, andI don't want to put words in his
mouth, is those guys have playedso much college football. They're they're more

(01:07:12):
mature too. That what's happening alot in the NFL. He was arguing
this is a lot of teams aredrafting really really talented guys and they're throwing
them to the wolves too soon andit's screwing them up. They're not able
to handle the game mentally and it'sdoing them a lot of damage and they
they're not developing. And he specificallytalked about may is one of the quarterbacks

(01:07:36):
that you better not throw him tothe wolves too early because he has a
lot of development to do and ifyou develop him and you're a little bit
patient with him, it'll pay off. But be careful. So if you're
drafting a quarterback to in this draft, the other question is this, is

(01:07:57):
it better to be a little saferin go with the guy that can mentally
handle and process the game quicker likea Penix or a Knicks, but might
not be as physically talented, butyou're a little more It's a safer pick
because he's less likely to bust andhe's more likely to be a starter in
this league. And that's why Iwas getting at earlier that I wouldn't be
shocked. You know, three yearsfrom now, Jayden Daniels could be out

(01:08:21):
of the league and Pennix or Knickscould be the one that everyone's going,
how the heck did we miss onthat? So that's why I'm saying I
wouldn't automatically still discount. And Iknow you're not a fan of them,
I still wouldn't automatically discount. Ifthey do the trade back in the first
round, then taking the quarterback there, and then again you're a little more
protected in that sense because again you'vegot a guy that didn't cost so much.

(01:08:44):
You didn't give up the first roundpick, you got another pick in
return, so the gambles a littleless at that point. And you're also
getting a guy that mentally, ifyou listen to the pundits that are out
there, the people that been talkingto the teams, they say Penix and
Nixons have impressed them with the chalkboardstuff too, so that's another thing that

(01:09:09):
they can come in and the gameis not going to be too big for
them. So again, I knowI'm covering a lot of ground here,
but it comes back to me stilltoo. We're talking about all these positions
if they don't get the if theydon't and I think what what you're you've
been saying is if they don't getthe quarterback this year, they'll get it.
You got to try to get itnext year. And I and I
certainly think that's a possibility, butthat also ties in with the trade down

(01:09:29):
because you've got to start getting draftcapital for next year for a possible trade
up. So if they don't,if they trade down, I would also
consider future draft capital. There wasa really interesting mock draft a few days
ago from some YouTuber again some fanaccount, but I thought it was a
really interesting mock draft. It wassomebody who Chicago trades up with the Giants,

(01:09:56):
and Chicago doesn't hardly have any picksthis left this year, but they
have two number twos next year andthey still I think they still have their
number three next year. And hesaid the Chicago gives the Giants next year's
number two and next year's number threeto move up from their spot to six,
so they could take I think theytook the wide receiver, but they

(01:10:18):
might have taken all, but youcould make a Chicago trade up for all
or or the wide receiver. Soyou're saying, well, that doesn't help
the Giants that much this year becausethey just they just moved down, They
just moved moved down five spots,and they didn't get any extra picks this
year. Yeah, but then nextyear you have two number much. Yeah,

(01:10:40):
you have two number two's, twonumber threes, and then you know
you might have a really high numberone with your own with your own pick
too, So then you've got abunch of ammal next year to move up
to get the quarterback. And theother argument, people are saying, well,
there are any good quarterbacks next year, next year's draft. They may
be right, but every year nowwe see quarter backs aren't supposed to be

(01:11:00):
you know, it's not supposed tobe a great year quarterback. And somebody's
up with Jayden Daniels wasn't supposed tobe a first round pick this year,
and he's gonna be player taking inthe draft now, right. So the
other trade doowns thing is again,I would not be upset. Would I
like it because I'm a fan.I'd be like, geez, we gotta
wait till we enjoy the draft picksnext year. Not really, but I
understand the process behind it. Ifyou if you can get a bunch of

(01:11:24):
draft capital next year, then getthe quarterback next year. That's another thing.
But again, it all comes backto this. If you don't get
the quarterback now, you got toget them next year. I don't think
they can wait three four years toget a quarterback. I just don't think
they can do that. I don'tthink I agree, So yeah, I
agree that it's a I would justrather wait for next year to take the

(01:11:45):
quarterback because I'm not in love withany of the quarterbacks this year, and
I think that forcing our hand thisyear just for the hell of it and
thinking the grass is greener is notthe wise long term decision. Would rather
trade back, get a ton ofpicks next year and fill some holes with
some quality talent this year, havesome steady improvement, and even if it's

(01:12:09):
a losing season, it was stillbetter than last year, and then we're
going into next offseason, make somefree agent acquisitions, make a trade if
they want, and then have aton of draft capital to really load up,
and then you're making a concerted effortand a run at this thing.
I mean, if you take aquarterback this year, it's inevitable that they're
going to get thrown to the wolves. It's either going to be Daniel gets

(01:12:30):
hurt again or he comes out thegate and isn't producing at the level,
and then the fans are starting tocall for his head. And there's gonna
be some point where the pressure Levybreaks and you're gonna have to throw that
rookie into the fire. And it'sa tumultuous situation to have to throw them
into because again, if you takethat quarterback, then you don't have the
number one wide receiver. You're stilli mean, god knows what we're doing

(01:12:54):
on the offensive line at tight end. I mean, that's not a situation
that I think any key quarterback wouldwant to be in, particularly when you're
trying to learn an NFL caliber offense, which at some of these programs they
don't play in those So it's ait's just a really risky proposition that I

(01:13:14):
don't think makes a ton of sense. But we can beat that horse till
it's it's blue, you know.I mean, it's interesting that it is
interesting that they are looking at allthe quarterbacks, so they're either putting out
the best smoke screen they've ever putout as a franchise, right, or
they're going to get a quarterback thatone on one they're going to try to
get get to get the quarterback.And that's you know, that's just the

(01:13:36):
reality of the situation, and it'sgoing to be fascinating to watch. I
would just again, I'm I'm gladthe listeners out there. One thing that
they've probably shaken their head and theresaying no. But I hope the one
thing that they they appreciate is thereare different ways to look at this than
just saying wide receiver or quarterback,because there are, and I I want

(01:13:58):
to before we move on from quarterback, we spend so much time on this.
I do want to support something thatyou said, too is and this
is just a problem when you you'velooked at these guys so much and you
nitpick them to death. And Iwant to be honest with you, I'm
not in love with these quarterbacks either. I really, I'm really not,
but that might be because I'm lookingfor holes in their game. But part

(01:14:21):
of me says, is the entireleague going bonkers over this. I mean,
like even Jayden Daniels, I'd bea little nervous with him if I'm
Washington and I'm taking him, becauseboy, there are times when he he
looks amazing, especially when he's runningthe football. But there are a lot
of things. I mean, he'sgot, he has a hell of a
team around him there, and thereare questions about his game, even his

(01:14:44):
arm strength. There may has gotsome significant questions again about him, and
I've even heard Cy talk about,you know, question his toughness at times.
I don't want to hear a quarterbackanyone questioning somebody's toughness. Ever,
with my quarterback, especially behind thisoffensive line, are going to be really
right trouble. One thing I dowant to get back to that you mentioned

(01:15:08):
too before before I forget is EvanNeil. One of the biggest things this
team has to figure out is EvanNeil. It makes no sense to me.
I know it happens all the time. I've been following the draft since
the eighties. I know it happens, but my god, the Cowboys had
Evan Neil ranked as their number oneplayer in the draft, and and they

(01:15:31):
know offensive linemen. When the Giantsdrafted him, everybody on that was Giants
fans doing backflips with this guy.He was a player in the SEC,
played both right tackle, left tackleand guard in the SEC, a conference
filled with really good defenders and defenses. We're talking about a guy this makes

(01:15:51):
no sense that he looks like thetrain wreck he does. I mean,
we're not even talking about to justifythe pick just a by taking a right
tackle at seven. That guy doesn'tjust have to be an ordinary player.
He has to be he has tobe a pro bowler. But right now,
and Neil looks like the worst righttackle in football, it doesn't make

(01:16:13):
any sense. Now he's been hurt, He's only played twenty two full games
since he's been in the league,or twenty two games total since he's been
in the league, So it's almostit's you know, it's a little more
than a full season, was itthe coaching? Is there something going out's
going on? I don't know,but they've got to figure that out because
they he they either got to moveget him to play at an acceptable level

(01:16:38):
at right tackle, move him theguard, or move on because that man
that I mean, that was ahigh pick. Yep. That that hurts.
I mean that hurts. And Iknow there are some people that are
saying trade him now. I don'tknow what his trade trade value. You
can't trade them now. The bestthing to do right now is hope the

(01:16:59):
new offensive line coach can can canreach him, because I just you know,
if people say, well, youlook at him and he doesn't have
the balance and he doesn't have theagility. Well, he did when he
was in college, and when hewas in college, he wasn't giving up
a ton of sacks. I sawa discussion the other day again, I

(01:17:19):
think it was on I can't forgetwhat podcast it was, but some guy
went back and looked at his collegetape and he said where he Neil had
his balance issues was in the rungame. He said he didn't see it
all in past protection at left tackle. So what the heck is going on
with me? Again? He's notplaying left tackle at the NFL level.

(01:17:42):
He's playing right tackle. He's notdealing with the top rushers even though they
you know defenses will play better rushersover there more now than they did in
the past, But there's it justdoesn't make any sense. If they can
get him, you know, playlike just ordinary, it makes it would
make the world that thence, butthat impacts the draft. That's why I
bring it up too, is whatdo the coaches? And unfortunately they won't

(01:18:05):
be able to do any you knowthat there won't be no hitting until training
camp. But I wish I couldbe a fly in the wall and know
what they're even thinking about him,are they? You know, they say
publicly they're saying he's a tackle,but if they made the decision that he's
our guard now, I just don'tknow. I'd love to know, because
that impacts what they do in thedraft. YEP. I think it's tough

(01:18:29):
for him to prove himself when hehas no support right around him, Like
he hasn't had a steady guard tohis left at all since he came here,
and I think that is really hardfrom a chemistry and continuity standpoint.
And the same thing could be saidabout John Michael Schmidtz. A lot of
people are down on Schmidz, andI'm like, you guys are out of

(01:18:49):
your mind. He had no guardsaround him, you know, I mean,
what do you expect kids a rookie? You know, what's really interesting
is the if you look at wherethe pass pressure can. I just all
this too, And I think wasa big Blue Banter podcast. I'm not
sure which one it was, butI saw this recently. The pressure.
Most of the pressure on the Giantsdidn't come from the edges last year.

(01:19:12):
It came up the gut and itcame the guards were terrible on the team
last year. People have discider thisis they signed a guy literally off the
couch last year who came in.What happened with Glowinski? He just fell
off. He just fell off theyou know. And they weren't even gone.
They didn't even want to. Theydidn't when they signed PW. They
didn't even think about, hey,we're gonna put Glowinski in there. So

(01:19:34):
I don't know what the heck wasgoing on there. I don't know if
there was an off the field issueor an injury or something going on there,
because I think there was one weekwhere there was a personal reason where
he wasn't at practice. I don'tknow what was going on, and I
think he's still on side. Butboth the Giants starting guards last year are
still not on an NFL roster rightnow. They're not on a roster,

(01:19:55):
and they were starting last year.And then you had the injury to Zudu
and he can't get going because Idon't know what they were thinking when they
put him at left tackle last yearwhen Thomas got hurt, because he didn't
even practice that in camp. Sothey threw a guard, a second year
guard out at left tackle against theforty nine ers of all teams, and

(01:20:18):
yep, I mean it was justa train wreck up front. So yes,
again, I interrupted you again,but I just wanted to highlight the
guard play. Was Schmidt's impacted Schmidt'sI think a ton Yeah, No,
and Neil and That's where I'm like, look, I get that everybody's harping
on Evan Neil, and I thinkwork ethic is an issue for him,

(01:20:40):
and hopefully having the new offensive linecoach will get him in some sort of
a rhythm if we can get aguard next to him or a tackle.
I mean, what I would loveto see personally is kick Evan Neil into
guard and then draft Joe Wall andthen put Joe all at right tackle,
which I know a lot of peoplewill not be thrilled about. But then
God forbid Andrew Thomas get hurt again. Wow, great, We're not throwing

(01:21:01):
Tyree Phillips in or Is Zudu inat left tackle. We just throw Joe
all over at left tackle and wedon't skip a beat, you know.
I mean, I think we reallyneed to stop undermining position versatility and help
fortify that line. Could you imagineif we had Thomas Runyon Schmidt's neil alt.

(01:21:24):
I mean, that's the best offensiveline we fielded since the Super Bowls
that we were winning, you know, And that's a legitimate line that if
I'm a defensive line going up against, I'm like, man, that's gonna
suck. That is a week I'mnot looking forward to because contrary to last
year, where it's like, okay, just blow up the guards, no
problem. You got a rookie centerto no name guards. I mean,

(01:21:45):
even before all the catastrophic injuries it'ssent us spiraling down. It was an
easy game plan of you just penetratethose guards, no problem, and you're
in the backfield. You shake Danielhe sees ghosts. You know, game
over. But if you fortify thatline and actually make it difficult assuming.
I mean, we haven't had ahealthy offensive line. I couldn't tell you
last year that everybody stayed healthy.So that's another thing is you have to

(01:22:09):
plan for injuries and we have zerodeath. I look at Illuminarious sort of
like that six man swing guy fillsthe hole. He's not somebody that I'm
gung ho about. Man he startsand I do agree that he's got upside.
I love that he's a Giants fanand it's nothing against him there.
But if I'm really getting picky choosyabout it, he's that six man up

(01:22:30):
that I would love to have waitingin the wings. Motivated, wants his
opportunity chip on his shoulder to provehimself. Like that's where I think he
slots in and does best. Butwe need to fortify the line. And
I think that helped Schmidz. Ithink that helps Neil, and whether it's
you know, Neil's tackle or guardor whatever, it ends up being like
you have to fix that side ofthe line for everyone's sake. Like Harbaugh

(01:22:55):
says, you know, what's theone position group that everybody relies on.
It's offensive line. And if we'reable to solidify that, then the run
game gets going better. Daniel hasmore time to go through his progressions and
he's not freaking out as much.The receivers can get further down the field
and develop into their routes. Imean, it's just such a pivotal component
of the offense that I think everybody'slike, oh, yeah, wide receiver,

(01:23:16):
Like, let's take a running backearly with no offensive line? Well,
good is that going to do us? You know? So that's where
I'm really just stuck on the offensiveline, and I agree Neil with that
allocation in a draft capital taking himas high as we did, He's got
to pan out, but you gotto do everything you can to help him
succeed. And waiting until the thirdor fourth round to draft a guard and

(01:23:40):
hope for the best, and thenyou're competing a lumin or in that guy
for like that other right side spot. I'm just not nearly as comfortable with
that as I would be an Altor a Fuaga or a Fatanu or a
Latham, where any of those guysnext to Neil, I'm actually confident for
once that we're fielding a decent offensiveline that can compete and hold back the

(01:24:04):
Cowboys and the Eagles. And I'mnot saying that they're gonna be a stalwart,
you know, offensive line and beable to stop everybody, but it
gives us a fighting chance way morethan we've had. And I think you're
hitting the right names. So againyou mentioned all, I don't think you
need to get all at six.What you do again, you trade down

(01:24:24):
and get the names that you justmentioned will be there in the middle of
the first round. So if youreally want to go that route, if
you're one of these Giants fans outthere and you're saying, you know,
we saw Dell Beckham and he didn'tmake a difference because Eli was getting run
over constantly because of the offensive line, and we couldn't run. We couldn't

(01:24:47):
run the football except for sa Quon'srookie year. Piggyback on what you just
said, A really good offensive linemakes everybody look better. It just does.
You know, why are the fortynine ers so good that because they
beat teams up front so well upfront, and then they can play a

(01:25:08):
guy at like Perty at quarterback.You if you put Perdy On on the
Giants, he doesn't have the same. He doesn't have the same and Daniel
Jones might have been a different quarterbackin San Francisco. But if you if
I would not draft all and shifthim to right tackle, because I don't

(01:25:30):
think you. I think you canget the same result by moving down getting
a similar player. When I meanby similar player, I mean a player
that I have a similar impact onthe offensive line because to me, Alo,
you know, he's a guy thatyou want to left tackle. The
Giants are in a very fortunate position. They got Andrew Thomas, so I
think you can get somebody that hasthe same type of impact, maybe even

(01:25:55):
better because some of these guys canplay inside too if their injuries happen and
some of them. And the otherthing is some of these guys are real.
They bring a lot of attitude toI would look at guys right now
too, and there are a fewof them in this draft that bring attitude.
We need some We need some peoplethat like to get dirty and like

(01:26:15):
to mix it up and bring thatto the line. But there's no way,
there's no They need to get Schmidt'splaying better, and I think they
can. They need to get Neilplaying better. I'm a little more worried
about that. But that's that's abig head scratch of me. But you
know, we're supposedly have one ofthe better offensive line coaches in the league
right now. They've got some insurancepolicies now in the sense that if all,

(01:26:43):
if, if something happens, they'renot relying on untested rookies right now.
They did bring in like an AaronStinney and this Shlotman, and they
even got this guy what's his name. I can't even think of his name
right now, the guy from Detroitwho actually was a backup on a good
Froit Lions team. So all,yeah, that's thank you, Matt Nelson.

(01:27:04):
It doesn't have to be it doesn'thave to fall apart as badly as
it did, because last year theyweren't even functioning. They were they couldn't
even There were games last year earlyon, especially early on in the year
where my god, they were thedefensive line was in the backfield when the
ball was snapped and it was youcan't you can't even funk that. I

(01:27:25):
mean that last year's New York Giantsline was historically bad. I think it
was the second worst in the NFLhistory in terms of the sacks that gave
up. I think that's what itended up being. I mean, it
was, it was bad, andthere were certain games where, like you
know, I think this was itthe Miami game or the Seahawks game.
One of the games where Daniel gotDaniel got sacked eleven times and it could

(01:27:49):
have been twenty. It was reallybad. It was really it was really
bad. So I just don't wantacceptable like you. I want somebody that
comes out and controls the line ofscrimmage. So whoever's back there quarterback has
all data or all data throw andthe right that we have now any running

(01:28:10):
back looks great. So the samething on the defensive line, so I
I you know. So that's theone thing again that would argue for possibly
trading down again, is you canaddress the lines in a way that makes
more sense, because I don't thinkI would address the lines at six.

(01:28:30):
I just think I have to addressthe lines. I would move down,
get the other pick, and continueto address the line. If you dress
the offensive line, then use theother pick that dress the defensive line,
and then I would go that route. But ultimately it goes back to your
earlier question two. I think theyhave enough needs that they can go best
best player at a lot of positionsand if somebody falls to them and it

(01:28:54):
is a tight end or a runningback, because I think they still need
at a running at some point.I like the guy they brought in,
but there are some really interesting runningbacks in this draft that I really think
can help help this team. Andin some ways, if you do have
a better offensive line, will bebetter than Saquon was here because they'll have

(01:29:15):
more room to operate. So Ithink if you get some of these,
you get a guy in the thirdround, and some of these third rounders
I think are being undervalued. Really, I think because the running back has
been undervalued. I think you can. I think you can put together a
pretty decent offense pretty quickly provided youget the offensive line done. Now,
the one area where if you dowhat you and I are talking about that

(01:29:39):
might get ignored is wide receiver.But that's one of those positions where you
were saying, you know you weresaying earlier, we can deal with quarterback
next year. I'm one of thoseguys that every year, since the wide
receiver class keeps getting better and betterand better, I think you can deal
with wide receivers in the future.Agreed. I had no qualms if they

(01:30:02):
don't take a wide receiver this year. And I feel like most fans heads
explode when you say something like that. But what's it going to do for
us? I mean, we can'tget the ball to Hyatt and wan Dale.
You know, we couldn't get theball to Waller whenever he was healthy
and on the field. So yeah, there were a lot of plays last
year Hiatt was wide open down thefield. You can't get him the ball

(01:30:24):
right So I don't see where addingAnd that's where I look at running back
more as like a fourth or fifthround priority in my eyes, and wide
receiver could be that third round whenyou're looking at like the Brendan Rice,
the Javon Baker, the tes Walkerand all those guys can compete, make
the other wide receivers in the roombetter, all that kind of stuff,

(01:30:45):
But you're not having to give upa premier pick one quick dave T line
on like the Joe all transition fromleft tackle to right tackle that I was
alluding to. He always said,always crack me up. Was switching from
the left side to the right sideis like wiping your ass. With the
other hand, and it's such agood line that I had to bring it

(01:31:11):
back up because, yeah, itis tricky, and I agree that,
like, yeah, if we canget one of those other guys, that
makes way more sense, and thenwe can add another draft pick to address
one of these other areas in need. Lord knows we have so many.
So yeah, I mean a guylike a Braylan Allen or Marshaun Lloyd or
you know, Will Shipley or RayDavis, any of these guys that you
could get at the top of theyou know, day three would sort of

(01:31:34):
be And I don't know if marshallOnline's going to make it that far.
He's been getting a lot of hypelaies on the short side, but really
versatile back and you've got the otherguys ahead of them. I just don't
see a rationalization of spending like aDay two pick on a running back.
It's another luxury pick where I don'tsee us being in a place where that
is going to help us long term. You know, we're gonna have to

(01:31:58):
pay that persons on the board too. But I tend to agree with you.
I think I think the thought processout there by many people is round
three but I could see your argumenttoo with round four. Again, a
lot of it depends on if theycould get an extra number, an extra
three? Can they get an extraextra four point? So that's why I

(01:32:19):
would even I know this is goingto drive people nuts, but I would
even consider trading down again. Iwould just start accruing picks at this point
and then get your roster right andget financial house and order. Daniel Jones
is off the books next year,and and and but that all said,

(01:32:40):
if they have a conviction on thequarterback, they may go in the opposite
direction. And well, just youand I are Giants fans first and foremost,
we just want to see them whenif, like I said, if
Daniel Jones comes out and it hasphil Simms like resurrection to his his his
career, I will I will doAri Maya Kopa and whatever and drive up

(01:33:04):
to the Metal Metal Lands and apologize, and personally I'll be cheering him on.
So that would solve a lot ofproblems if the Chinese had to get
a quarterback out of him. Ijust want them to win. I know
you want them to win. Ijust different ways to get there. I'm
just tired of watching Opening Night OpeningDay against the Dallas Cowboys and losing a

(01:33:28):
national television by a team that's clearlymore physical than we are. And that's
been going on too long. Andthe same thing with the Eagles, and
they've just been getting I used towrite, you know, I still do.
I write these game previews, andthey've gotten so I can't really write
them like I used to anymore becausethey they're mismatches. You know, I

(01:33:50):
write the same thing every year forthe last decade about the Cowboys and the
Eagles. We're going to get beatup front by them, and we do.
And until they fixed that problem,because as as much as they've changed
the game, as much as theykeep messing with the rules, if you
can't play in the trenches, you'regoing to get beat up front and the

(01:34:12):
team. You saw this in NationalChampionship game in college football, the same
thing. You know, Jim Harbaald, an NFL coach, just ground down
other teams and man, that's afun way to win. I mean,
we Giants fans that are old enoughto remember this. In the nineteen ninety
season, the Giants were not flashy. They were and people say the games

(01:34:34):
changed and then certain stent they're right. But the Giants didn't have much of
a passing game, but they theybeat the crap out of the other team
on both sides of the football.And they just beat them in the submission.
And they played teams that were goodsyand glamorous and that were supposed to
kill them in the playoffs, andthey won because they just punched the other

(01:34:55):
team in the mouth and the otherteam didn't recover. And I miss that.
I want to get that back toGiants beating people up and just overpowering
them. And I have to admitI am envious when I see teams like
the forty nine ers do that,and I'm like, damn, I want
to do that. And even ifyou look at the Chiefs this past year,

(01:35:17):
Mahomes didn't have the wide receiver.As a matter of fact, he
had a couple of ice that wegot rid of. And their defense,
it's interesting the Chiefs defense is startingto be as much of a factor in
their success as their offenses. Now. I would argue their defense was a
major component of their playoff run thisyear. And I still think if you've

(01:35:44):
got good defense and you've got agood offensive line, that puts you so
far ahead of everybody else in theleague. It's much crappy offensive line planes
And it's not just the Giants,it's across The Giants just happened to be
one of the worst. It's notthe worst, but it's why problem.
Yep, I agree. I mean, you gotta win in the trenches to

(01:36:04):
be successful. Defense wins championships.I mean, that's a tale as old
as time and it stands true.If you can get after the quarterback,
it makes all the difference in theworld. I mean, we beat Brady
twice in the Super Bowl because ourdefensive line got after him, you know.
And yeah, of course our offensiveline gave e Lie enough time to
make some crazy throws and there weresome spectacular catches. But at the same

(01:36:28):
time, that defensive line makes allthe difference in the world. And like
you said, Patrick didn't have anumber one receiver, So us thinking that
a donsay or neighbors is going tosolve, you know, the Giants problems
is just kind of baffling to me. But now, who do you like
about a couple? Who do youlike of those three if you had to
pick any, I mean, well, I like Harrison as the top guy,

(01:36:51):
and then I got a donsay.I'm not huge on neighbors. I
think neighbors is going to be theone that fits the mold of what they
like in a receiver, more basedoff of like Wandell and Hyatt and sort
of what they've been going after infree agent signings and everything like that.
He's more of that vibe. SoI think that they prefer neighbors. But
for me personally, I'm going todunesay guy. I mean, this guy,

(01:37:14):
his contested catch percentage is through thefreaking roof. He's a big body
dude. I love a big,physical receiver. We haven't had that kind
of security blanket in so long.Kean Coleman is a guy who's similar that.
If we got to trade up inthe second to go get basketball background
and high point of catch, bigbody guy, I mean, we just
haven't had. We've got all theseshifty, speedy, small guys, but

(01:37:40):
you have Yeah, until you havethat physical presence, they can dominate on
the outside, those guys aren't goingto get open. So I just I'm
more of a Dounsa guy. Ithink I like him a lot because I
like not just his talent, Ilike his personality. Yea. He is
a Giants character guy, the characterguy, and he just seems like a

(01:38:01):
guy that that. They say,and I say this about neighbors too.
They he just very, very,very competitive. I'm really big on athletes
who are so super competitive that they'llstay after practice and do things. And
they said Odun was at the combineand after everybody went in, he was
still trying to exactly And I loveguys like that because that tells me that

(01:38:26):
they're willing to do anything they cando. They don't want to lose.
Those guys, the guys that youknow, we all we all know these
kinds of people. You play agame with them and they're they lose,
their their pain in the ass.They don't like to lose. I don't
think people like like like like tolose, and we need guys on our
team that are more afraid of losing, like that's the worst thing in the

(01:38:50):
world to them. You know,we have too many people have gotten used
to losing and they leave the stadiumand Noel next next. We got people
that we need, people that getupset about losing. And I think he's
one of those guys. I thinkit's interesting what those three receivers. Is
no one's talking about Harrison. Youknow, everyone's talking about you know,

(01:39:13):
he's the most talented receiver that's comearound in years, and yet no one's
talking about the guy. It's justI think everybody expects that he's going to
be gone. I mean, ifhe falls a six, then that is
just a huge misstep by the teamsthat are on. I mean, even
with the other teams, it justseems like, you know, they're like

(01:39:34):
the Cardinals are going to trade down, the Chargers are going to trade down,
and then like, well, thisis all what the media is saying,
you know, I mean what themedia is parroting every year versus what
actually plays out in the draft aredrastically different, you know. So I
think everybody is talking about a doonesayand neighbors because they expect Harrison is going

(01:39:58):
to be gone. But the NFLis got to be high on Harrison.
I think Brendan Rice is another onewho is overlooked. I mean, to
have Marvin Harrison's kid and Jerry Rice'skid in the same draft, and Frank
Gor's kid Jeremiah tried to I mean, there's there's a lot of Joe all
you know his dad. A lotof NFL bloodlines in this draft. You
know, I think those are allsafe bets. But yeah, I agree

(01:40:20):
with you. I mean, ifHarrison falls in our lap, I mean
that's a no brainer as much asanything. But again, yeah, go
ahead. I was gonna say,I'm gonna throw this out there. Did
you were you on the site today? Did you check out the site?
You probably haven't had time. Iwas looking at why twenty eight thirty visit
thing? I haven't. Yeah,it was a week I looked at size

(01:40:41):
linebacker thing. But we got aguy who broke the news with us on
the Brian Burns trade, and hesays, the Giants are talking to the
forty nine ers right now about acoming Okay, I mean it would make
sense he wants a trade. Andthat was another question I had for you,
is could you get this a roundupof the ass hat info? For

(01:41:01):
those not familiar with BBI, there'sa term called ass hats where you've got
some guys who historically have drop sometea leaves in the various threads on the
corner forum that have some sort ofhit rate, and then there's a general
trust in them dropping additional breadcrumbs alongthe way. I know that you monitor

(01:41:25):
those more than anybody, So canyou give us a roundup of sort of
what you've seen from some of thosefolks, because I'm not digging through every
thread like I used to be.You know, Yeah, it's just to
look for you got to right exactly, and then people hide that information too.
It's like you you could ask onanother thread like what's everybody been saying,

(01:41:46):
and then nobody responds to Yeah,you have to be there to be
able to experience it right exactly.Well just all right, so just to
sort of profess my remarks too,I don't think anyone who posts on this
site is inside the Giants war room, so no one knows, you know.

(01:42:09):
I think what happens is people talkto people, who talk to people,
and they hear things. So oneof the things that that's fun about
the site is you hear these thingsand sometimes they come true, sometimes they
don't. But the people that havesomewhat of a track record get paid attention
more. That doesn't mean they're notwrong, that doesn't mean that things don't
change. And I'll give you anexample years past, there was I get

(01:42:30):
doubled all of the site's been aroundsince ninety five. I've been told things
a lot that were in the worksthat never came to fruition, and so
people get mad at the people thatdrop the hint, only the later learn
on it that while there were talks, they just fell through. You know,
they're the free agent was visiting hereand he was going to possibly sign

(01:42:53):
here, but somebody offered him abetter deal, or there was a trade
talk, but you know it didn'tgo through. That kind of thing.
So you've got to take it forwhat it is, and you pay attention
to the people that have somewhat ofa track record. So the one interesting
thing I was going to bring up, and I'm glad you asked this question,
is I've heard from two guys whoI know have decent batting average.

(01:43:15):
One said the Giants really like neighborsand the other said a Dunza. So
they're not on the they're not onthe same page. They're not, you
know. So that's one of theones where either things have changed or the
Giants are getting better at keeping secretsor putting out misinformation. So I'm actually
fascinating about this draft about how theydo handle the quarterbacks, because like getting

(01:43:39):
back to the earlier point where Isaid, is this a big misinformation campaign
with the quarterbacks that they've never doneand their done ever? Or you know,
is this legit? Is this legitinterest? That's the other thing.
We'll never We'll probably never really knowif the draft doesn't fall away the Giants
we wanted it too. If theywanted a quarterback, well, we may
never even know. Did they reallyhow they had these quarterbacks ranked? Maybe

(01:44:01):
they really really did want May,but Patriots took May and we'll never we'll
never know. In other words,but to answer your question, so there
is the rumor out there with theforty nine ers talking with the Giants,
but other teams are talking talking withthe forty nine ers, and that that's
everyone would figure that anyways, thatwould that's not any insight information. People

(01:44:21):
are gonna call and find out.But if that's true, it's interesting that
the Giants would be willing to giveup draft capital for that. And does
that mean they are right again alreadyhave intel or a plan in place to
get the quarterback too, because Idon't know if you make that move unless

(01:44:43):
you have a replacement for Daniel Jonesin the year. So so there's a
lot of speculation going on in thesite right now in that you know,
do the Giants have do they havea plan in place that they think they're
going to be able to get thequarterback that they want. I don't know
if that that's speculation at that point, but that's out there. As I

(01:45:03):
said earlier, I did hear thatthey really were high on May back in
February. I don't know if that'schanged, but that makes a lot of
sense because if you look at againand then this is a lazy comparison,
but everyone's making it, but it'san obvious comparison. You can see a
lot of Allen in May and viceversa. Not identical. There are some

(01:45:26):
differences, but you can see youknow, the big the big body,
the big arm, the mobility,the accuracy issues they had in college,
and Dabo being sort of the quarterbackwhisper who can try to fix that.
So so that's out there too.So I was operating under the assumption for
a long time that they really wantedto trade up. My problem was is

(01:45:49):
I don't see the Patriots passing ona quarterback, but maybe they do.
You know, if the Patriots don'tpass on a quarterback. I don't see
how that happens unless they take McCarthy. And would the Patriots take McCarthy over
May I don't know that. Thatto me would be like their owner getting

(01:46:11):
involved in thinking that they're going toreincarnate Brady there with the Michigan alumni.
You know, that would be theonly way I see that happen, because
because I don't know how you dothat. Given again, I'm not saying
McCarthy can't become the best of thebunch, but the body of work he's
done so far, that's a gamble. I mean at number three to I

(01:46:31):
don't know so so, but theanswer your question, so the things we've
heard are the obvious things. Peopleare going to say, well, well,
no do but it's they want thequarterback, and if the quarterback doesn't
go their way, they'll take thewide receiver. My where I'm coming from
and where you're coming from is maybethere's that third route that's coming in here.

(01:46:54):
But I think if you put agun to my head and you said,
Eric, you're gonna have to betyour house on something that's going to
happen, I'm thinking they're going widereceiver at six because it's the obvious move.
It's not the move that I woulddo if I'm offered a huge package
at that point. But I thinkthey I think Daniels is off the board,
Caleb's off the board. I thinkthat. I think unless they,

(01:47:15):
unless May or McCarthy fall to arange where the Giants are comfortable trading up,
I I just I don't I don'tsee how that happens. And I
think one of those two are gonnaget taken by the Patriots and then you're
competing with Minnesota at that point,and then you want to give up next
year's number one. To me,that's awfully rich. I just I just,

(01:47:39):
you know, so so yeah,I agree from I got a bunch
of buddies who are die hard NewEngland fans, and they stay pretty and
tune with like the local beats andeverything, and they're all super high on
Drake May, and I think thatprobably ends up playing out. That goes

(01:48:00):
Williams, Daniels May, and thenyou know, McCarthy is the outlier.
I think McCarthy will be better thanWilliams, Daniels en May, which sounds
absolutely insane. I think Caleb Williamsis a huge bust. I think Daniels
is going to get hurt. Heruns way too much and he's too thin
on the bottom half. And Ithink May is going to end up being

(01:48:21):
a glorified backup. But I thinkMcCarthy has a lot of upside. He
just wasn't used as much as hecould have been in Michigan's offense because they
had such a strong run game.But I think from what they're all saying
is all indications point to them takingMan. I think where he could get
crazy if they took Harrison, whichis also a real possibility. You know

(01:48:41):
that I thought of that. Youknow, that would be something too that
would really throw everything into a tizzy. And that would be you know,
if they really want the wide receiver. If New England this is here's the
wild card. And if I'm talkingtoo much and you need to get me
off, no, I mean weshould wrap up because we're a two hour
but I feel like you could talkfor another two But here's the wild card.

(01:49:06):
Say New England wants the wide receiver, then trading down for them makes
a ton of sense. But theywouldn't want to trade down past the Giants.
They don't want to move past sixat that point. So if the
Giants could move up to three andnot give up a lot, that's different.
You know, if they can getup to three and not give away
next year's number one, that wouldbe very That would be something they would

(01:49:28):
have to do. Here's the question. I think you answered your question.
So if you're the Giants and McCarthy'sat six, it sounds like you're taking
him. If I'm dead set ona quarterback that you know, like I
have to take a quarterback this year. Yeah, but I still don't want
a quarterback this year because so youdon't want a quarterback. So I heard

(01:49:50):
everything you said previously, but you'vemade up your mind that you don't want
a quarterback this year. It soundslike, yep, you could give me
the first overall pick, and Iam not in love with Williams, Daniels,
may or McCarthy enough. If Ihad to pick one of those four,
I would pick McCarthy. So ifthey're putting all their chips on the

(01:50:12):
table, going all in on aquarterback this year, I would take McCarthy.
And I think it's the highest probabilitythat he's the one sitting there for
them if they stay at six basedoff of what everybody's saying about how the
first three are going to go.So if that's how they want to play
it, great, If they tradeup for a quarterback, I'm gonna lose
my mind because I you better getready for it, because I know,

(01:50:35):
and you know what, every yearit's the same thing. I go into
it with my own mindset and theynever do what I'm hoping for, and
I get so gassed up. Ispent all these hours, watching so much
film and doing all these same formonths, and then I'm always let down
every single year with what they endup doing. So it's probably gonna go

(01:50:55):
that way. But I'm dating myselfhere. But you should have seen me
the year they took Thomas Lewis inthe first round and he wasn't even listed
in the draft guides in the writeups, and that was in the first
round. I'm like, who thehell is Thomas Lewis? But anyway,
well, here's the thing that Iwas thinking of. And again we'll get
wrapped this up because and I didn'trealize it was so late, but this

(01:51:15):
is something again, So I hearwhat you're saying right now, You basically
don't want to get any of thesequarterbacks. But I'm these are the kinds
of things that are entering my mindas I'm thinking about all of this stuff.
So I've actually thought about the scenarioof if they take neighbors and understanding
the kind of guy he is,and understanding the kind of guy that Wandale

(01:51:40):
Robinson is. If you get somebodylike those guys, and you draft someone
like bo Nick's late later trade upin the second round, or maybe he's
even there in the second round foryou if he gets by Denver. You
know, some people have said he'sgoing to go in the first on the

(01:52:00):
Denver. I don't know. Idon't know how realistic that is or not,
but I wouldn't. It would notshock me to see Pennis in Knicks
go in the first round. Itreally wouldn't. Because I wonder if some
of these guys are are being underyou know how you said earlier, the
media gets the stuff wrong all thetime. That's one of those. Are
those are two guys where I wonderif they're all wrong about right now.

(01:52:23):
But if we're gonna risk it onlike a Day two quarterback, I'd rather
wait till the third round. TakeRattler, I know, and Rattler was
in with the Giants today too,so that's interesting. The thing I don't
there's two things about Rattler. Oneis his height. I don't like short
quarterbacks, and the guy's supposed tobe a dick. I mean, yeah,
no, he's got all kinds ofcharacter concerns. And again this is

(01:52:43):
where I'm like, I do notlove any of these quarterbacks outside of Joe
Milton, which I know is crazy, but Joe Milton has so much upside,
doesn't have the character concerns. He'ssuch a great developmental prospect that if
he had continuity one program and wassuccessful, he would be a Day one,

(01:53:03):
Day two pick. No questions asked. Feel better about the thread I
started last week about Joe Milton's Iloved Joe. I loved Joe Milton from
the get go. All this Iremember one of like the first sweets I
had. So I haven't really beenon Twitter much. I got on it
like around the draft last year,just to like get the show some exposure

(01:53:23):
and whatnot. And I remember hittingup side like early on in the process
and probably like December or something,and just being like, dude, what
is wrong? With Joe Milton thatI'm not seeing because I don't understand it
for the life of me. Andit was just, you know, his
response was that there's inconsistency and it'sjust it's kind of a gamble and you

(01:53:44):
know, him being at quarterback,so I thinks he might go in the
third round because of the premium positionand you know, he's got the tools
and everything, and he thought hemay go that high. Wow. I
mean that that this was early onin the process. I don't know where
he stands nowadays on it, butthat was and that wasn't something that he
was like publicly uh saying. Itwas just kind of like he three emails
with me and whatnot. But yeah, he said that he could see because

(01:54:09):
quarterback is a premium position, hecould go that high because of the traits
that he has and the development ceilingthat he has, you know, and
he's a bigger Milik Willis in termsof what you're looking at right now.
So that's that's to me. Ifyou liked Malik Willis, you probably like
your Probably Joe Milton to me lookslike Josh Allen. Yeah, physically he's

(01:54:34):
he's a monster. That's what I'mbut and it's the same thing. Can
run people up like same body type, same arm strength, and people forget.
When Josh Allen came out of Wyoming, there was similar knocks on him
decision making, he's too much ofa gambler, YadA, YadA, YadA,
YadA YadA. I mean, DaveAll's pretty familiar with that type of

(01:54:55):
prototype, given his work with himin Buffalo. The same reaction you when
I Milik Willis comments more along thelines of this is he he has not
the same tools, but he wasvery tool rich, so that the appeal
of Malik Willis was like, damn, this guy is a good athlete with
a good arm, and he hasa you know, mentally the head's there.

(01:55:19):
You know, he's a good guy. You can work with that kind
of guy. Now, different body, we're talking about much different body.
So when I started, when Istarted watching the highlight types on Milton,
I couldn't get over with his sizeand like you're you just said he's got

(01:55:41):
that Alan body. He's just abig guy. I mean, he's it's
unusual to see a quarterback. Imean, people don't realize this. I
didn't realize this until I stood nextto Eli Manning. Eli Manning was a
really tall, huge, very tall, and and I know that that Milton's
supposed to be similar, similar hype, but he looks bigger to me even

(01:56:01):
then. That's the thing that stoodout to me was Milton's just a big
guy at a big arm. Andthen I saw one highlight where he ran
like seventy yards away from everybody ondefense and I'm like, well, he
can run and he's got a rocketfor arm. But man, you know,
it's when you start hearing teams arelooking at him at other positions that's
usually the death knell. But likeI like you, I say, give

(01:56:26):
him a couple of years in aprogram and see what you got, you
know, maybe take a flyer onhim. And just so I started a
thread on him last week and thesame thought process that you did. You
sound like even more intrigued than Iam. But if you don't take a
quarterback high, I think you gotto start taking some shots once or ty

(01:56:46):
once every couple of years on somelower round guys that have wards. And
that's the thing that people have tounderstand is they're going to last to the
fourth or fifth round for a reason. They're either going to have a physical
issue that they or there, orit's going to be something like the accuracy
or a developmental issue. There's goingto be something there, or the guy

(01:57:13):
wouldn't be there in the first place. That's one of the things that drives
me nuts on draft day is Idon't understand why we took this guy in
the sixth round. He's got blahblah blah wrong with him. I'm like,
it's a sixth round pick. There'sgonna be something wrong with him.
Like we had. There was ayou know, the same discussion when they
Giants took Hawkins. It was like, well, why would you take a
guy with you know, from thisprogram. Yeah, he's got all the

(01:57:36):
physical attributes, but but he's notgoing to make it in the NFL.
Well, when you're getting that latein the draft, you've got to either
take the lesser athlete or you gotto take the athlete help you can develop
them. It's one or the other. You know, there's a reason why
the guy lasted that long. AndJesse Armstead was a late round draft pick

(01:57:58):
because of a knee. He torehis knee in college and he was and
there be the site's been along andlong enough that I remember when, you
know, when he became a stuton the team and a fan favorite and
all that. But he was ahe was a late round draftic. Sometimes
you just have to take shots onguys late in the draft and there's going

(01:58:18):
to be a reason why they fellso far. And Milton falls into one
of those categories. If if ifthere wasn't something wrong with him in terms
of questioning some attribute, then hewouldn't be there in the first place,
because if he had everything else he'dbe he'd be in the top. We'd
be talking him about at number sixright now or Yeah. No. People

(01:58:39):
are stuck on his Michigan tape andI just don't think he fit into that
offense. But he was successful atTennessee. I mean, how did Jalen
Hyatt get the tape that he did? You know, somebody had to be
throwing him that ball and another Davet Lesson they imparted on me a while
back. That I think is valuablefor the listeners to understand, particularly as
like a fans, if you will, is scouting is not about what players

(01:59:03):
do wrong or bad. It's aboutwhat they do well and figuring out a
way to exploit that trait, sobeing able to take somebody like a Milton
and say, Okay, he mightnot be perfect in this, this and
this, but man, if wecould really get him going here, then

(01:59:23):
what a sensational pick he could be. I feel like a lot of you
know, media scouts and fan scouts, we all get caught up in well,
I don't like this guy for Xy Z. I mean, it's
like me with Michael Pennix. Idon't like that he's a left handed quarterback.
I don't like the medicals. Butif he was a right handed quarterback

(01:59:44):
and didn't have the injury history,I could see him being picked at six
all day because he's got the ball, he's got the accuracy, like everything
like that. So it's less aboutwhat they do bad and how much do
they do good. Like I'm abig highlight tape guy. I want to
see when I'm watching your highlights tapethat you're making impactful plays when it counts,
that there's some consistency with that,and it's not just when you're beating

(02:00:06):
up on like Brambling State, andyou know, the point total is so
skewed that anybody could be making thatkind of a play, you know,
but if it's a big which ifyou go back and watch Milton's tape,
and I did comment on your threadby the way, that Milton was my
top quarterback in the draft, andI did see that thread. Okay,
if you go back and look athis tape, his big plays are third

(02:00:30):
downs in like yards when the game'son the line. It's not just like
some run of the mill, like, yeah, he has some good plays
in the middle of random games ora blowout here and there, But a
lot of his tape is in pivotalmoments when it counts, and that cannot
be taught, like you either gotthat or you don't. So that's why
I'm a huge Milton guy. AndI think again, my whole mantra is

(02:00:51):
the intersection of need and draft capitalexpense and to be able to get somebody
who we could look at, Imean, you know, Pennix Nicks going
in the second round if they don'tgo in the first, right, Joe
Milton is going in the fourth,fifth, sixth, the way most people
have it lined up. And tobe able to get somebody with those intangibles

(02:01:12):
that late, I mean, youare really that is arbitrage at its finest.
And that is where I think beingsmart with your draft capital allocation and
taking a risk on somebody makes ahell of a lot more sense than braying
that one of these guys, thetop four guys really pans out and you
have to trade up to get them. It's just so ass backwards to me.
But yeah, I'm looking forward toseeing how it all shakes out.

(02:01:36):
And the last thing I'll throw thisout there is this and this is high
in the sky stuff and all that. Yep. But I would still and
I got into some hot water thismorning by saying this because somebody else started
a thread, I would still notpeople going to shake their heads at this.
I would still not completely discount DrewLocke and to Vito. And what

(02:02:00):
I mean by that is this therethey locked when Lock. You have to
remember when Lock came out, andit was in the Daniel Jones draft,
he was very, very highly regardedand but the problem with him was,
and I've heard this is it wasa maturity issue and that some people have

(02:02:21):
said that he's really grown up.And if you saw the way he handled
himself after beating Philadelphia this past yearwith the press conference, it's there there
there are quarterbacks out there that dodoesn't happen often, but do grow up
and do mature and it starts toclick for them. Do I think it's

(02:02:45):
going to happen. No, Iwould not bet on it. But he
has enough. If he was inthis lot, if he was in this
draft being the guy he was backwhen he was drafted and no one knew,
you know what what how he wouldhave developed or lack of development,
he'd still be. He'd be inthe conversation right now with the Giants in

(02:03:06):
the first round or late in thelate in the first round. He'd be
another one of those guys we'd besaying, well, he's got he's got
an arm, you know, hehe makes plays. He's a guy that
we could possibly get, you know, if we don't get one of the
top guys. The Veto when hewas at Syracuse was considered. Before he

(02:03:31):
left there, he was considered,you know, a very good play again
guy with an arm, mobility.It didn't work out for him. He
transferred. He sort of rebuilt hisreputation at his second stop. And if
you throw most undrafted rookies into whathe was thrown into last year, I

(02:03:56):
don't think most people expect the outcomethat he got. Now, his fifteen
minutes of fame maybe up, andthat might have been it for him,
that he might have been flash inthe pan. He's just as likely he's
he's going to be out out ofa job. But it's not because he
doesn't have talent, and he showedand the ability to not let the pressure
get to him last year in asituation that could have gotten really ugly.

(02:04:17):
I'm old enough to remember a lotof other Giants backups being thrown to the
Wolves like this and far worse,far better teams and looking I remember when
they threw Tommy Maddox out there,for instance, and what a disaster that
was. I can remember we've gonethrough a number of quarterbacks between Phil Simms,
Carry Collins, between those guys andEli Manning, when we went through

(02:04:41):
quarterbacks where they drafted guys or hadguys going there, and it wasn't and
it wasn't pretty. So I wouldnot again, because Kafka's there, and
because in Mahomes thinks the world ofKappa, and because day Ball's there and
Alan thinks there were world of Dayble, I still would not completely discount the
development of somebody who's already on thisroster, and that would be ideal.

(02:05:03):
I mean, that would be thethat would be the you know, even
if you draft a quarterback at thatpoint, then maybe maybe you can trade
somebody like de Veto, you know, even for a late round pick before
you have to cut him or somethinglike that. So I just throw that
out there too. If you know, I don't want to I want a
quarterback. But if they if theydon't draft a quarterback at all, these

(02:05:25):
are the guys that we're going tobe looking at, and I'll be rooting
for them over Daniel Jones starting forno other reason because the injury clause.
Because if Daniel gets hurt again andhe tears like an acl or gets a
neck injury, we get stuck withthat twenty three million, not additional twenty
three million, and that that scaresthe the Jesus out of me. So
so I'm just throwing that out theretoo. Is that is it likely?

(02:05:48):
No? But you got to rememberthose guys are on the roster too.
Yeah. I mean you look atthe Geno Smith resurgence, and maybe it's
a case in point to what you'resaying here. I mean, when they
signed Drew Lockett's a one year proveit deal, and I looked at it
like, Okay, let's throw Danieland Drew out there and see if they

(02:06:12):
can make it. Let's see ifwe can keep our quarterback upright for a
change, that would be lovely.And if they can actually develop the offense,
and if not, worst case scenario, they get their asses kicked,
they're both out of here next year, and then we can bring in a
rookie with a more formative offense nextyear. You know. So I looked

(02:06:33):
at it more of a bridge.But like you say, the odds are
you're nine, I'm just saying there'sa one. Yeah, No, it's
possible. I love Tommy Cutlets,don't get me wrong. I'm waiting.
I got his bobblehead that they weredoing. It's a great bobblehead. He's
got like the hand gesture going.He's at like a red and white tablecloth,

(02:06:57):
checkered table and everything. It's supposedto be coming at some point this
month from one of those sites.License Plate Guy actually posted it back in
the cutle of days. And Ilove Tommy Culletz. I wouldn't be mad
keeping him on the roster. Everybody'sjust kind of writing him off. But
and the big difference between him andhint them. And when I say them,
I mean Taylor and de Vito lastyear, and and and I don't

(02:07:19):
mean to be picking on Daniel Jones. It sounds like I'm picking on Daniel
Jones. But they come in andthey start taking shots down the field,
and those shots connected the connected withSlayton. There was you know, there
was they flew down the field tothe wide receivers to hie it. And
I just one of the things Ifeel bad about for Daniel is this is

(02:07:41):
I think he's been I think JoeJudge coached a lot of the aggressiveness out
of his game. He was anaggressive player when he was a rookie.
I think Joe Judge and then Ithink the physical and mental toll has taken
has taken a toll on him.I just really have And you know,
it was it was it was justnoticeable that all of a sudden, the
ball started getting thrown down the field, even with the line the way it

(02:08:03):
was, the offensive line was stilla mess, you know, and started
coming. I mean he got backat a certain part, but there we
still you know, like I saidthe guards were a real problem last year,
and Schmid's wasn't was struggling, sothey were getting you know, it
was still still a problem. Buthe took some shots down the field,
and I don't want to see Iwant a quarterback that's gonna shoot, just

(02:08:24):
take shots down the field with Hyattand Slayton and these guys and and and
get big chunk plays. And youknow that gets back to your earlier point
about well, you know, whatgood is the wide receiver going to do
unless you have somebody who throws takes, you know, takes advantage of him.
For instance, Odonze, is DanielJones gonna throw a lot of fifty

(02:08:45):
to fifty balls to him down thefield. That's not I haven't seen that
out of Daniel's game in years.But I think I think, uh,
the veatle would do that. Iknew Taylor would do that. Locke looked
like he did that when he washe played last year he made that huge
plague and again against Philadelphia he tooka shot down the field. You gotta
you gotta do that. And Ithink that's one of the things that last

(02:09:09):
point I'll make again because we've goneso long last point I went between Neighbors
and Adn is this is it's gonnacome down to how Dabo I think wants
to use those receivers and does hewant to have somebody who's more of a
catching space guy and do run afterrun after the catch, or does he

(02:09:31):
want to have somebody on a trueX on the outside that's going to win
those one on the one outside battlesand you can just put the ball up
to And there are a lot ofGiants fans out there that say because they
have Kenny Galladay flashbacks, and thething I don't want a receiver who can't
separate. Well, he can separate, but but the other thing he does
is even when when he that youknow, the defensive back is doing a

(02:09:56):
good job. If you look atlook he makes more plays on contested catches
and than than I've ever seen before. He just it's like if if the
ball is there, he comes awaywith it, the defensive back doesn't,
and the defensive back is just sittingthere going what the hell just happened?
You see that over and over withhim, and that's just so appealing to

(02:10:18):
me. I wish he had morerun after the catch. That's the big
knock I see on him. Butif you want a real, like pure
x receiver, I think that he'sthe way to go. But I can
understand the appeal of neighbors because youcan just throw a quick pass to him.
And if Jones is your quarterback,that's more his game. You throw
a quick pass to him and Neighborsmight be gone. You know, we
had visions of that with O'Dell Backhamtoo, you know, a slant pass

(02:10:41):
and he goes seventy yards against theRavens on that kind of thing. So
I mean, that's what they took. That's what they took jan Dell and
Hyatt for. Though you know,I mean, how many how many of
those are we going to have?And I get the more you have then
the more optionality it is, andYadA, YadA, YadA. But I
don't know. It's just like butI would not be I understand both.

(02:11:05):
I would not be. What Ido think it's funny those neighbors through Jones
under the bus. I don't knowhow you handle that at this point.
I don't. I don't know ifyou saw that. But the interview a
week or so ago where where hebasically said if I'm drafted by the Giants.
They'll get the quarterback thing figured out, yeah, because they got to
Yeah, oh my god, howdo you? I mean, how are

(02:11:28):
you gonna deal with that? Ifthey draft him? I mean that that.
I mean, that's how all thosereceivers have got to feel. If
you're one of those top three receiversand it's like, oh, I might
land with the Giants, Like you'renot going to set some rookie record,
you know, by comparison to ifyou went to another franchise that actually had
a quarterback. I mean, it'sjust a dicey situation. I don't think

(02:11:48):
it better for Daniel to leave forhim too, I really do. You
know people on the site think I'mpicking on him at this point. I
probably am, And it's not ina way. It's it's and it's not
fair. But you know, theypulled the band aid off with Saquon.
I think they need to pull theband aid off as soon as they can
with Daniel for his own sake.He's gonna be fine. He's he can

(02:12:11):
live on an island the rest ofhis life if need be, not playing
another down. The Giants got plentyof money, He's got plenty of money,
so I can't feel too sorry forhim. But you know, I
just think, you know, Thibodeaukind of threw him under the bus too
when he said he thought Saquon shouldhave gotten paid first. I just think,
I think, I think the bigtakeaway from your and I think that's
a good way to spend U on. A good takeaway for for for this

(02:12:35):
discussion is they got address the quarterback. You want to address it next year,
And I'm saying they've got to addressit either this year or next year.
You know, they they've got tomove on for a variety of reasons,
injury, performance, and now it'snow it's just even perception. Now,

(02:12:56):
perception and in the team itself,even people that they may draft.
I just and I think it wouldbe better for Daniel. I think I've
said for the last two years,I think it would be better for Saquan
if he was on another team.And I think it's going to be for
him, and I think unfortunately forus, but I think it's going to
be better for Daniel to go beon another team. And I think it's
better for the franchise to move onand make a break with the past.

(02:13:18):
I think one of the things thatthey've gotten in this horrible You mentioned this
earlier at the very beginning, they'vegotten in this horrible cycle of they keep
doing the same things and nothing's changing. And one of the cycles they've been
in is trying to cling on thethings when they should just cut the ties
and just start over. And sothey you know, they fire a coach

(02:13:41):
but keep the general manager, orthen they or they or they they encumber
the general manager and the coach withthe quarterback that somebody else drafted. There's
just been too many of those thingswhere everything hasn't been in sync. That's
why I thought the two thousand andtwo twenty twenty three thing that I brought
up at the beginning was so crucialis I think they were on the path

(02:14:03):
to make the break, then theydidn't, and now they're having to go
back, and they wasted a year, and they wasted that that cap space
because they made that mistake. AndI don't think there are too many people
out there that think Daniel Jones isgoing to work out for the Giants.
Now. I think we all,most of us are thinking this this It
just matter when, not if,and it's not a slight against him in

(02:14:30):
terms of you know, I don'tmean any ill will to him, but
it just didn't work out. Theygave him six years and it hasn't worked
out, yep, And a lotof that's not his fault. Some of
it is. But the reality ofthe situation is the reality of the situation,
and everybody's got the hand their dealt. And I mean that's why I
was an advocate early on in thisshow about if Mara actually wants to turn

(02:14:52):
that revolving door around, he's gotto ultimately pick a regime that he gives
more than like a three to fouryear leshon, because that's the only way
to stop perpetuating this same cycle.Whether that happens or not remains to be
seen. Definitely hopeful that they dosomething this draft that actually works. I
mean, I'll take a draft wherewe hit on five out of our six

(02:15:16):
picks and that's a great success becausewe haven't had that good of a draft
in a very long time. SoI know, we've got got Burns.
So if we remember, Burns isalready in the pocket, So we have
Burns, now, let's build onthat. Yeah, I mean, I'm
not not to go on another tangent. But you know, I'm not a
huge advocate of giving up draft capitaland having to pay huge contracts, which

(02:15:41):
is what they would have to dowith Ayuk as well. I mean,
imagine, if we didn't give upa third round pick for Darren Waller and
spent that third round pick on arookie tight end, they'd still be on
a rookie deal. We wouldn't bedealing with what we're dealing with right now.
And they probably you know so,which also suggests that Daniel's on the
way out, because if they diddo that with Vayuk, it would mean
that they would probably have a quarterbackon a rookie deal. Yeah, they're

(02:16:03):
all in at that point. Ifthey trade for Brandon and I you can
give him a big deal after theyjust died that with Brian Burns. They're
expecting to win a championship in thenext two to three years, which is
a crazy talk. But if theywant to get behind that, and I
think it's in their best interest byall means, I love this SA.
It depends, you know, there'sanother way to look at this, because
they because but they're both still youngplayers, and if they get them on

(02:16:26):
longer deal. I mean, theyalready have Burns on a longer deal and
they have I look at Burns asa almost you know, he's still so
young, and they got him ona longer deal. Again, again,
it's expensive, and I hear whatyou're saying, and you're not wrong.
But I still think they can bea rebuilding clubs, and rebuilding in today's

(02:16:46):
age means two years, two orthree years. I still think they can
do that as long as they havethe cap space. What you don't want
to do is get in a situationwhere this club, this team is all
up against the cap three years fromnow that they're having to already purge the
roster. And I think the onlyway that that works if you've got like

(02:17:07):
a Burns and an A and aDexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas on the roster,
is if you have a rookie quartera rookie quarterback deal on the team,
like when they had Philadelphia had JalenHurts when he was on his first
deal. They could Philadelphia could getcrazy with the rest of the cap because
that But once you get on thesecond deal, So yes, I agree,

(02:17:28):
I agree with you, if,especially if these were more older guys.
But if you get if you getthe if you get the forty nine
er wide receiver, then you're goingto have to do a longer deal like
with Burns too, because I don'twant to give him up. You want
to keep him around five years orso at least you know, you're not.
My concern is that you're setting yourselfup for cap hell and it's inevitable.

(02:17:48):
Yeah, that's a risk, soyou know, and that that's how
how it plays out more often thannot. So again, I just don't
see the logic there with the expectationthat a rookie quarterback is going to lead
you to a championship in two yearsand right, which is very which is
very unlikely. It's happened, butvery unlikely, right. And the other

(02:18:09):
thing too is that would play inHowever, unfortunately in the thought process that
Davel and Shane are concerned about theirjobs. You know, you don't moves
like that unless you're saying, mygod, we got to win some games
around here, or or we're notgoing to be here to fix this anyway.
So okay, I wish we werea fly on the wall to know

(02:18:31):
what actually is going on, butwe're gonna find out in a few days.
I know it's gonna be an interestingride. I got my popcorn ready
to say the least, and appreciateall of our listeners who have stuck around.
I mean, this is probably thelongest podcast I've ever seen, but
it was great chatting with you,Eric. I really appreciate you making the
time. Welcome back on whenever youwant. I'm sure we could have talked

(02:18:52):
for another two and a half hoursand still had plenty to cover, So
I appreciate you making the time andappreciate everybody sticking around for this long winded
edition of the Scouts on our podcast. We'll look forward, no, no,
I mean this is important stuff andI think it's it's valuable insight.
And you know a lot of hostswould like cut this up into three episodes,

(02:19:16):
but I mean with long podcasts,I'll just like pause when I'm done
listening for a second, and thenI'll pick it back up the next day
or something. So I'm sure peoplewill still glean enough from it to make
it worthwhile. And we covered alot of good ground and a lot of
topics that I think the fan baseis curious about and playing devil's advocate with
one another is what you know peopleare curious about. So I think we're

(02:19:39):
on the same page in a lotof areas, and we might go about
it a little bit differently, butlike you said, we just want to
see the giants win at the endof the day. Exactly. Well,
appreciate everybody listening. We'll be backagain here later this week and next week
with some more guests on the show. But Eric, again, thanks for
making the time and we'll catch everybodyon the next Scouts on It podcast.

(02:20:01):
Thank you.

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