Eric “simulators” Kennedy from BBI Returns

Another 2 hour episode with the Founder of Big Blue Intervative, Eric Kennedy. Anything you can imagine pertaining to the Giants draft was covered in this show. We are one week away from the first night of the draft, hopefully you can get through this by then. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to another edition of the Scouts on a Podcast.
Please to be joined again today by the founder of
Big Blue Interactive and recent mock draft simulator addict Eric Kennedy. Eric,
welcome back to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Buddy, you did this to me. You got me these
damn simulators. I love it.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
How good is it?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Like?

Speaker 1 (00:23):
I feel like you have gotten deeper this year in
the weeds with prospects than you ever had before. And
that's one of the beauties of the simulators is that
it gets you looking into that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I have not been this much into the draft in years.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
So when I was in the eighties, nineties, early two thousands,
I couldn't get enough. And I would say the last
ten years or so, I follow the draft, but I really,
you know, look at every study, every prospect going into
and I'm not studying every prospect, but really get into
the weeds. But the simulators are making me and you

(01:00):
and I were just talking about this offline, the simulators
are making me research guys that are going to go
in the.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sixth and seventh rounds. I'm and so I'm doing more
of that.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
So I feel like I feel like way more prepared
for this draft than I have in recent years, and.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I have you to thank for that. So I'm actually
pretty excited about this draft.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
And I think this is a I think this draft
is getting a bad reputation. I don't think this is
the draft to have. If you had multiple first round
picks in this draft, I think you'd be pretty bummed.
I think the draft falls off pretty quickly in the
first round. I mean you've seen people talk about they
have fifteen first round grades or eighteen first round grades.

(01:41):
But even with the factoring those grades, you know, there
are such things as low first rounders and high first rounders.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
So I think this is a draft that.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
If you're picking eleventh or twelfth in this draft, you
might it's not probably a good year. But I think
the back in third, fourth, fifth, sixth, I think there's
a lot of really good players in this draft. And
what I guess what I'm excited about is there at
positions where the Giants need help. So it's great that
I think, you know, I think there's good I think

(02:15):
there's really good depth on.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
The defensive line. I think there's really good depth at edge.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
I think there's really good depth at tight end, and
of course, running back is just crazy, and you can
make the argument it depends on what kind of flavor
you want. But wide receiver is not as bad as
some people think.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
I think there.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
I think there aren't any any like I think the
the top end guys.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
It's not like last year. But I think you can get.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Good players at wide receiver in second, third, fourth rounds.
It's just depends on what you're looking for. There's a
lot of slot guys, for instance. If you need a
slot receiver this year, I think this is the year
to get a wide receiver for instance.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, I'm envious of the Buffalo Bills they have, and
even remember how many picks over the course of Day
two and Day three. I had them as my team
in the BBI mock draft that Matt g runs. And
then Tampa Bay became available and I used to go
to Bucks games. I used to live in that area,
so I wanted to seize the opportunity to take over

(03:20):
the Bucks. But it was tough for me because I
was looking at the Bills that I had and I'm like, man,
that's so many picks. That would be so fun.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Does Buffalo I say, I haven't been focusing on the
other I didn't even know that. Like Philadelphia Hats, they
seem to seem to have a million picks, But do
you remember roughly this Buffalo have like a lot of
second or third there.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
They easily have at least a dozen picks in the draft.
It was insane, like, not like.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Late round guys.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
You're saying, no, there's a lot of late round but
they got Yeah, I mean, but still like the quality
that you're going to get in the sixth Granted, like
the BBI mock Draft only goes through the sixth.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Round, so I was really like only looking at it
the sixth round based off of like the picks that
we had in that exercise. But still, man, I mean,
you give me four picks in the sixth round this year,
I'm finding some really quality depth for my team.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
And the last time you and I were talking when
I was on your show a couple of weeks ago, again,
I know way more than I did when I was
on the first on the on the first show and
you were mentioning the guards, for instance, there are some
There're gonna be some good guards later on in the draft. Again,
you never know where the runs are going to happen.
But if you need a guard, you might be able

(04:32):
to get a pretty decent guard late in this draft.
The running backs you were you were listing all these
running backs the first show you and I did, and
my goodness, there's a lot of running backs in here.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, so I'm very excited. I think that I think
they can get better in this draft. And I think
the the flying the ointment is this. And I don't
know if you and I really want to talk about this,
because it's been beaten to death.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Is is core.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
If they do something silly at quarterback, it could now
it could work one of two ways. If they picked
the right guy at quarterback, nothing else matters. I just
don't think that the guy's in this draft. I keep
I want I'm trying to find a guy that I love.
I'm trying to find a quarterback that I'm like, you
know what, I take a shot here in at thirty four.

(05:23):
I would take a shot here at sixty five. I
can't find a quarterback that I feel so good about
that I'm willing to pass on other guys for.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
And so that's that's the fun. But if the Giants
do and they find the guy, then then that's their
golden but as other people have talked about, there's there's
two two contrary positions on this, and somebody and the
people who take the first bishop position are both sides
are right on this.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
I saw somebody on AX just a few minutes ago
before he jumped on and said how much did Malik
Neighbors help in the win loss column last year he did?
His point was, you've got to find a quarterback because
nothing else really is going to really elevate your team
as much.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
As a quarterback. That is a correct that is a
correct position.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
However, you can't just draft any old quarterback because if
you don't get a guy that's any good, you're wasting
that pick and it's not helped. I mean again, in hindsight,
Daniel Jones was a terrible pick. Look how far far
back it's set our franchise. You just don't want to
pick a guy for the sake of picking a guy.

(06:36):
And That's where I'm at right now, is I want
to be able to pick a guy, but I just
don't feel comfortable enough with any of these guys. Thankfully,
it's not my decision. So in these simulators, I've had
Jaln Milroll there at thirty four, and I pulled the
trigger on it just to see what the rest of

(06:56):
the draft would look like. And it's not bad. You
can survive it. There's a lot of good.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
If you want to come out of the draft with
offensive lineman, defensive lineman, a wide receiver, tight end, you
can still do it by taking a quarterback at thirty four.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
It's just not as I don't feel as excited. But
if Jalen Milroll turns out to be Lamar Jackson, then
you're like, who cares what the rest of the draft
looked like. That's where I'm at right now. I just
and I know you feel the same way about the quarterbacks.
I can't find somebody I love.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Well. What was interesting about the Daniel Jones here too,
was that was the same year that we got Dexter
Lawrence because we had the seventeenth pick in that draft
as well, and where I was frustrated. I wanted Dexter
Lawrence that year. So I'm glad that it worked out,
But I thought taking Daniel Jones in the top ten
was a wild move when all indications pointed towards you

(07:47):
probably could have gotten him at seventeen, you know, So
It's sort of a similar cat and mouse game, all right,
this year of you know, everything that I've been seeing
here in this past week is that New Orleans needing
a quarterback. Jackson Dart is more the flavor of what
they want. And then you know, Rick Sarrahtello's on the show,

(08:10):
is talking about it yesterday and how Chador could slide
and Steelers really like Shador and they still don't have
really a solution at quarterback right now. The Browns, I
mean they're rolling in with Joe Flacco and Kenny Pickett.
I mean, you know, like we think we're in rough shape,
and then you look at some of these other teams

(08:30):
that are desperate for a quarterback as well, and it's like, man,
they're in worse shape than we are.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
So and at Steelers, they didn't work out for the
Steelers so far. I mean this Aaron Rodgers, things looks
worse by the day.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
And still I think he's going to retire. He was
on the mccabee Show earlier today and he's like, you know,
I got shit going on in my life and forty
one and I mean I never really understood why he
didn't retire just straight away in Green Bay, you know,
like going to the Jets and doing the whole Brett
Farres and dance like, you know, I never really saw

(09:03):
that that was going to materialize in anything meaningful, but
I get it. It's hard to walk away from a
game that you love and all that like. But I
think it's classy like Eli, where it's just like, dude,
once a Giant, as a Giant, like I'd rather just
go out with my dignity and like having left lasting
impression on a franchise. By comparison, trying to like you know,
pulling Tom Brady or Peyton Mann and go to do

(09:25):
another team and winning a Super Bowl in a couple
of years is an anomaly even though it happened. But
they're both you know, pinnacles at their position in the
history of the NFL.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
I think Phil Simms got an offer from the Redskins
after the Giants got rid of him, and he turned
it down. I think I heard him say that once,
and that would have been awfully tough to see as
a Giants fantasy Phil Sims and we had to see
Jeff Hostetler do it, but it would have been way
worse if it was Phil Sims.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
So yeah, there's a dignity. They're sort of retiring with
your team too.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah. So yeah. I mean, look, there's a few teams
that need quarterback. It's not CD. I still stand by
the fact that I would rather punt on quarterback till
next year. It seems like all indications are pointing towards
the Giants are going to draft abdual Carter, which if
the medicals check out, I'm totally fine with. I mean,
I am apprehensive about the medicals, but if the doctors

(10:23):
go in there and they're like, we're not worried about
this at all, then great, yeat. He's a blue chip prospect.
He'd be an incredible impact player on the team. I'm
not mad at Abdul Carter one way or the other.
What I mind is trade down, absolutely not. I thought
it was interesting that Joe Shane in the press conference
yesterday alluded to the fact that he's fielded some phone
calls for a trade down. It sounded like those would
still keep us in the top ten, where you'd be

(10:44):
able to get a quality player, not necessarily a quarterback,
but still an impact guy in year one straight out
of the gate. But I am resigned to the fact
now that there is probably a solid chance that they
come out of this draft with a quarterback. I think
it's more so the third round, either the beginning of

(11:06):
the third the compick or the top of the fourth round.
That's sort of like a sweet spot where you could
get one of those leftover Tyler Shucks or you know,
if Milroe somehow falls, which doesn't see I mean, he's
showing up in the draft, so I don't think he's
going to go that late, Like he must have some
indication that he's going to go earlier than that. But
the Kyle McCord quinn yours, Will Howard stack over there

(11:31):
is more so palatable to me, just because then you
have a backup. I don't mind the idea of having
like a quality young backup in the room, and then
that gives you a bit more flexibility. Next year you
keep that person and jamis and then you want to
take a stab at a higher quarterback. I mean, I
don't think that we're going to be picking you know,
past twenty next year, Like that's just the reality of

(11:54):
the situation. And then if you need to move up,
you know, you might not be moving up into the
top five because that's going to costs you way too much.
But for Arch Manning, which I know a lot of
people love, assuming that Arch comes out next year, but
there's still a lot of quality quarterback depth theoretically if
everybody comes out next year, so you could get somebody
in like that ten to twenty range, which is where

(12:16):
I'm hoping that we're picking outside of the top ten.
But being realistic, I don't think that we're going to
be picking past twenty next year. So I think that
you know, getting like Bridge youth guy as a backup
that maybe you hit on late on day two early
on day three makes more sense to me. But I
agree with you that it's difficult when you're doing the

(12:36):
simulators and then you're looking at the quality prospects at
other positions and you're like, shit, man, do I really
want Will Howard or Kyle mccor, But I could have
one of these other guys.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Like man, it's things like it's things like there's a
running there may be a running back there that's like,
you know, like like your guy that you you pointed
out to me, and I really like this as Martinez,
you know, Martin, this could be sitting there and you're like, well,
is that where I take you know? Is that where
I take Shook?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
You know?

Speaker 3 (13:07):
And And the one thing I would say is the
Giants are scouting the hell out of these guys. There's
a bunch of things this week going on today again,
they're looking at Schadour again, they are looking at the
now the people that that are frustrated with the Giants
are going to.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Say, yeah, great, they're scouting them.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
They but Shane has been here, this is the fourth season,
and he's yet to draft a quarterback yet. So I
can understand both sides of this, but I just don't
want them to force the pick here. It's interesting you
hear people tell you.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Things are all the time with the Giants really like
McCord or the Giants kind of like Howard or the
Giants kind of like you know, I know.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
It's like, so I don't try. People have asked me,
have you heard any good rumors? And I'm like, well, yeah,
but they all seem to conflict with each other, So
I'm not going to put them out there and that
maybe the Giants are doing that themselves, or maybe maybe
they really don't know, because I do think part of
this is is they still are kind of finalizing their
draft board and all that. The big question is do

(14:10):
they take someone at three. I don't think they're I
mean a quarterback at three. I don't think they're going
to do that. Do they trade back into the first round?
I hope they don't do that. And again again, if
some one of these guys works out, then it doesn't matter.
I just don't see it with these quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
If I put on my conspiracy hat for a second,
just it's all crazy. Sure if last year is any
indication they passed on all those quarterbacks, but there's a
lot of talk about them trading up. It would be
quite a chess move for them to be doing all
these independent workouts with these quarterbacks to make it seem

(14:48):
like they really want to get one of these quarterbacks
just so that they have a bargaining ship and a
trade down scenario in any round, or to force a
team like the saying so the Raiders or somebody to
leapfrog them with the Browns to take a Shador or
somebody like that, you know, or even in the second

(15:09):
round to jump them to take whoever's left over, and
then that gives them a better optionality at their pick.
So I'm not saying that that is the case, but
something that nobody's really been talking about.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
And oh, I think there's something to that. I think
something to that.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
And I and Da Sivertsen told me yesterday he thinks
the Giants are going to get a serious offer at three,
not like not something that it's like, oh, you know,
people call and just inquire type of thing. I think
the Giants are going to have a decision to make.
And I I tell you, I know you're on board

(15:44):
with me, and this is going to really piss off
a lot of listening out there, but say the Giants,
And I think before I say this on preface my remarks,
I think we get caught up again in the hype
when you get personal network after network, draft guide after
draft guy keep telling you this is a Hunter Carter

(16:07):
draft and nothing else, and you get like, you get
told that constantly that you better not pass on Hunter,
you better not pass on.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Carter or else.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
And I know it's not the same thing, but it
reminds me of the that the the argument I had
back in twenty twenty two when Giants fans were demanding
that we draft an offensive Lineman with one of those
first two picks at five and seven, and I said,
I don't know if I would do that.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oh, you gotta take you gotta, you gotta, you gotta.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
I don't like the argument that you get the Giants
have to get one of these things. So on a
preface that say Shane and Dable and the rest of
the organization has a really really really high grade on McMillan,
t mac or or war in the tight end, I

(16:59):
mean a really high grade on one of these. What
if they love Derek Harmon and they think if we
put him next to I mean, and I mean love
or or Graham, they love one of those two.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
I mean, I mean love one of those two defensive tackles.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Maybe they're quite as high as Carter, but they really
love them. If somebody calls you and says we'll give
up next A one next year and A two this year,
I think you've got to listen to that because number one.
How so, if you got to determine how great a
difference is their value and those things, and also what
kind of impact will that player have vis A v.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Carter.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
I still struggle with the how are the Giants gonna
make kvon Thibodeau, Brian Burns and Carter work at the
same time. And there are those people out there to say, well.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
You you make it work, I'll come back and with
that with Okay, that's easy to say, but this isn't
sort of like the old situation where the Giants were
running a four to three and you could the ends
inside and have your NASCAR package.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
It's not the same as that. I think you can play.
And because he has played the position, I think you
can play. I think you can play Carter at off
ball and move the people around. However, I don't think
it's a great necessarily fit. At that point you have
to start. You do have to think about do you
move Caveon at some point because you just how can

(18:24):
you make it work? The reason I say that is
so if you have a really high grade on somebody else,
and if you put Tmac opposite Thelak neighbors, or if
you put Graham or Harmon out there, or if you
run twelve personnel a lot.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
And I know John Schmelk was on.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Your show yesterday was yesterday he was on Y and
he was saying, Davia likes twelve personnel. If you put
Warren and theil Johnson and again they have a rapport
because they were at Penn State and State.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
YEP.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
I have a hard time passing on that, so'un. I've
run simulations where I've gotten again TMAC trading down and
you've got You're getting neighbors on the other side, and
then I get that extra second round pick plus the
first round pick next year, and I'm at that point,
I'm like, I don't need to draft a quarterback this
year because I'm gonna have two number ones next year

(19:16):
and I'm going to get my quarterback. I can survive
with with the veterans we have, and I can go
into next year's draft. So I don't want to make
this a whole trade down discussion again because you and
I did that in the first show. But I think
this is a more realistic I don't I'm not saying
the Giants will do it, but I think this is
a more realistic option for them than than than people

(19:38):
are giving them credit. I don't think this is wild
thinking to think that Giants shouldn't least entertain these kind
of offers, but that yeah, no.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
I know I agree with you, and I'm glad that
you've been doing the homework enough to like really come
around to it and doing the simulators and everything to
see the reality of how that kind of shakes out. Yeah,
we trade down for three, I'm going streaking in the
quad for sure, I will lose my mind in a

(20:07):
good way. And you know, whether it's still within the
top ten or within the top fifteen or what have
you just amassing more picks because where I'm at, it's like, look,
we're not in all likelihood making the playoffs next year.
We're not contending for a Super Bowl in the next
two years. So yeah, like you, if I can get
more Day two picks this year, you know, a first

(20:31):
rounder next year, and then I've got two first rounder
next year, I can package those to move up for
a quarterback if I want to do that, which has
been a conversation that we've had the last couple of years.
Oh we've got to package something to go get cam
Ward with Tennessee. Oh we got to move up and
get Drake May. So you want to do that, well,
put yourself in a position to have the amo to
be able to do that in a class that in

(20:53):
theory is going to be better at quarterback. By comparison
to this year. So yeah, no, I agree with you.
It certainly makes sense. And whether they do it or not,
we'll see. But yeah, I mean Hunter and Carter. You know,
if they had a glaring need where one of those

(21:14):
like filled a huge void and they made a ton
of sense. Like Hunter, I can see, but he wants
to play both ways. Gets the crap out of me,
Like I don't know that. I necessarily like that. He's
trying to dictate how a team is going to use
him before he's even gotten into a building. Like that's
just like dude, pipe down a little bit, same thing,
like Ashton Genty putting out that like thing saw. I'm like, dude,

(21:38):
what are you thinking? You know what I mean, like
shut your mouth, sit back, like see where you land.
Be humble, you know what I mean, what happened in
the old school days.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
But yeah, I mean, you know, how do you make
I mean everyone's kind of dismissing this Carter Travis Hunter
two way thing.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Again.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
I like the guy, and if he's the Giants draft him,
I'll be thrilled. But again I have a hard time,
how do you.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
He's not he's not a.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
He's he's an incredible athlete, but he's he's kind of
raw as a wide receiver, so you know, running NFL
routes and all that. So how do you how does
he work at both crafts at the same time. That's
I have a hard time.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Well for the Giants, he fits in basically fifty to
fifty because I don't think that he would necessarily start
at either position. More so, just be a supplemental guy
because you've got people. You re signed Slayton, you have
lon Dell Hyatt whatever, he's kind of in the background,

(22:41):
and you got neighbors, so you kind of got your
your three wide receivers already there. So you supplement Hunter
into your wide receiver packages as you need. You went
out and you paid Paulson a debo. You got Deontay Banks,
so you slide him in wherever you need. I think
like if you put him on like a snap count,
so to speak, and it's like, all right, he's gonna

(23:01):
get you know, thirty forty plays a game, whatever it
ends up being, and then you evenly split it up
between offensive and defensive snaps. Then you know, like you
use them when you feel like using him. Do you
try to like bait and switch where it's like, all right,
let's keep him off the field in the first quarter,
and then an offense gets in a rhythm and then
we slam them in there second quarter as a cornerback

(23:22):
and then just you know, like manipulate the schemes so
much that teams can't really plan for it, right because
they don't know how much you're going to use him,
Like that's where I think the value is. But then
that's just so convoluted, man, And then he's got to
learn to playbooks, and they're not easy playbooks. It's just like, well,
there's so many variables to that.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
And I'm thinking about the logistics of this. Then, but
the offense and the defense meet in their separate rooms
at the same time, right, Yeah, Practice there's only I mean,
I've to try to hammer this in the fans for
years that the CBA has made it worse.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
There are only so many practice snaps. The Collective Bargaining
Agreement only allows teams to only have so many practice
snaps in the summer. Now there's only a handful of
padded practices in the summer.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
It's crazy. There's no two days anymore. And then once
the season starts. There's not a lot of practice snaps.
So do you have him practice on offense or do
you have them practice on defense? Again, it's a nice.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Problem to have. The one counter. I hate when people say, well,
they'll make it work.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Well, that's that's easier said to say than do so,
and then and then and then Carter Again, it sounds
like I'm picking on these I'm not trying to pick
on I'm just saying there's there is a like any
prospect ever in the history of time.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
This includes Lawrence Taylor, this includes Joe Montana. There are
downsides to every player. Abdul Carter is an incredible pass rusher. However,
there's been questions about his run defense. For for example,
he's not you know, he may a lot of tackles
in the back, tackles for losses when he's able to

(25:03):
shoot into the backfield, but he's he the kind of
guy that's going to be able to take on a
guard or tackle and stack the point of attack. No,
he's not that kind of guy. So so people who
are who are looking for a well rounded player, he's
not that guy. He's not terrible at run defense, but
he's not good. I wouldn't say he's good at it.
Could he get better?

Speaker 3 (25:24):
Sure, But again it's one of those things that the
counter argument is this, if you're gonna be if you
can't get a quarterback, and you're gonna be playing against
Jade and Daniels, and you're gonna be playing against Jalen
Hurts four times a year, two each, you better have
somebody who can get to him so you.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Can make the art. So there's both sides. Is all
I'm saying is this, and then we should probably move
off of this. Is if somebody.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Calls me up and offers me a lot of picks
or high picks, I am listening, and I've got to
think about it, and it depends on how do I have,
how far am I dropping down? And what do I
feel about the other players in this? What do I
feel about Jalen Walker, What do I feel about the
two defensive tackles? What do I feel about McMillan, What

(26:10):
do I feel about Graham? What do I feel about Warren?
If I really have a high grade, a really high grade,
and I think that guy is gonna be where I'm
trading down to, or I know he's gonna be there,
then and somebody's offered me a one and a two
or you know, a bunch of picks. I'm listening at
that point. I'm not saying I'm doing it, but I'm

(26:31):
thinking about it. And some people out there, a lot
of people out there listening, are gonna say screw that,
don't do that.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
And again, I just think that's something to think about.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, I don't think they put themselves in a precarious
situation of like, all right, we're gonna move down from
three to you know, fifteen or something. I think that
if they're gonna do it, they're gonna try to say
within the top ten, and they have yea, a general
sense of who else is gonna go, and then they're
gonna be able to get one of two guys that
they still really like, and it could make a lot
of sense. So yeah, I mean a week from today

(27:04):
we will finally find.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Out and specula and I don't expect to trade, but
I will. But rid of Me.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Says, do it, so draft Simulator.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, you'd be amazed at what you can do with
those those other picks. Again, I keep saying the second,
third round, fourth round here, and it's like, whoa you
could really build up this roster. And I'm not talking
about with like crappy players. People are like, yeah, and
I keep bringing up this point, but there are so
many of the great players in Giants history are not

(27:38):
first round draft picks there and it's not like an
uncommon thing even around the league. So just don't get
hung up on the guy's first round draft pick, and
you don't pick those guys out there. That's why I'm
gonna I'm not.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
No, no, no, no, You're good. So you've been You've
been doing your homework since with like the day to
day three prospects. So who are some of the names
that you've come across in recent weeks that you're like, Man,
I really like this guy.

Speaker 5 (28:09):
Well, I think the the the tough question here, and
I think you talked with John Schmilch about it and
and and we're going to be interviewing him tonight and
I want to talk a little bit about it with him.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
As well too.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Is the is the general philosophy of how do you
approach this draft? So it's very deep at some positions,
So do you draft into the strength of that draft,
which is the conventional wisdom, you know, draft into it?
Or do you draft with the higher picks factoring in

(28:44):
that those positions may get weaker pretty quickly in the draft.
And John and John mentioned to you. I believe he
said teams do factor that in they they they do.
That is something that that teams will do. And so
you other where this comes in is this the Giant.
The Giants need a defensive tackle. I would argue they

(29:06):
need two, and they might even go I could see
a scenario where they actually draft three with one being
like an edge player. If they tend to go into
this season and playing a more traditional three to four,
then I think you're starting to look at four technique
and five technique type ends like and and and Dave

(29:29):
Seybertson has brought this up to like a Birch or
a set On Jones.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Not not at not at two. I'm talking about later
on in the draft.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
So if you're going to sort of fill in the
defensive line there, you can wait in this draft. Now, me,
a lot of times I can't pass up if somebody's there,
like a Grant Falls or and I'm a big tyleek
Williams guy, because I want to get another or another
And I'll address why why I'm looking at these run guys,

(29:58):
so I have a hard time passing up on them.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
But there are times when there's a player there at
a different position that Giants fans might not necessarily think
should go early, but in a grand scheme of things,
that position gets weaker as you go long, and I'm like,
get him now and then worry about the defensive line later.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
So when you say so, let's start off talking about
thirty four. So if you're talking about thirty four, I
usually we'll go D line or offensive line there. And
if it's really if there's an offensive lineman that I
really like, like if Zabel fell to that spot, I
have a hard time passing on him. I don't think
he's falling to that spot, but if Zabel's there, because

(30:44):
then you've got your center center guard guy at a
high level. People were really impressed with him at the
Senior Bowl. Yeah, he's got a relation. I mean that
that program we talked about before, that program pumps out
offensive lineman, NFL lineman. He can even play some tax
Donovan Jackson's there. I'm really he's a tough guy to

(31:05):
pass on it, because again I like the like the program.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
He came he played tackle, he played guard. He's another
guy that I think can come in and I think
he could be a Pro Bowl guard. So I so
those are the obvious ones. But and this is what
I'm going to ask, you know, point out to you.
And I'm going to talk with John tonight. What if
there's a wide receiver there like a Buka? What if
he falls? What if he's there? Do you pass on him?

(31:31):
And say, you know what, I can get the offensive
lineman and I can get the defensive lineman later in
this draft.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
So there there's a scenario where I could see, you know,
and if they love, if they love a Jalen Knowle,
I don't think they'll do that, but if they do,
I mean, do they love a wide receiver there?

Speaker 2 (31:49):
I don't think they would take a tight end that high.
It wouldn't shock me.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
But I don't think they're taking one at thirty four.
But I could see them taking a wide receiver there
if they don't go offensive line, if they don't go
defensive line. And the big question is is you know
it's Jalen Milroll there and do they make a shot
at that.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
That's why I'm nervous about the quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Because if the Jalen millroll doesn't pan out, then you've
lost the chance to get to get that other guy.
But I keep coming back to offensive line defensive line
unless there's somebody at wide receiver that I'm like, I
didn't expect them to be there, and I got to
pull the trigger because big picture is this. The Giants

(32:30):
are bringing back ten out of eleven starters on the
offense that scored sixteen points a game. So right now,
on paper, they look like they're putting all their eggs
in the basket of the quarterbacks ain't going to make
a difference here, plus whatever that they do in the draft.
So they're hoping that Russell Wilson will be so much

(32:55):
more efficient and better at quarterback than Daniel Jones was.
And they've got a jazz up because the rest of
the team on offense really hasn't changed that much. They
got our swing tackle. Now, they added like little Jordan
Humphrey as a you know, he might not even make
it out of camp, but they've got him. They've got
Pascal let wide receiver. They added their big free agent

(33:16):
move was bringing back Slaton on offense, so that they
didn't really do it that much on offense. So so
when you approach this draft, where are they getting the
fire powers? Someone like me will argue, and I know
you feel this way. Build up in the trenches and
if you get stronger in the trenches, everything else looks better.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
But the other the other thing is you can say, we.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
Need more weapons, we need a running back more, we
need more and I'm gonna try Tyrol. I like Tyrol
and Tracy, but let's make sure we got a good
running game. We need somebody better than Slayton outside, and
Jalen Hyatt hasn't worked out for us. So that's why
I'm thinking wide receiver could be a sneaky, sneaky pick

(34:01):
at thirty four.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
For me, I think the running back, wide receiver, tight
end is more of like a third round or later
conversation based off of like who's going to be available
to us at thirty four and then the death at
those positions later on day two early day three. So
in that vein, let's give you a scenario here, you're

(34:25):
the Giants, GM pick thirty four comes around, you took
you know whoever? At three? Sure, either way, hunt Eric
Carter whatever, it's irrelevant based off of like the what
the scenario I'm gonna give you. You've got Dart and

(34:46):
mil Row. There, You've got Gray's Abel and Donovan Jackson. There,
you got Walter Nolan and Kenneth Brant.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
There.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
What are you doing? Eric?

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Oh my god? So after Walter, who did you say?
You said?

Speaker 1 (35:01):
And it's Grant Walter Nolan. I'm trying to give you
like two at each position.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
I would add a real hard time passing on Grant
because I think his upside is so good.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
And if you put him next to Dexter.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Look, if you take Carter at three and you're gonna
play him with Burns, you've got to get another monster
defensive tackle inside because those guys are not edge setters.
So in other words, I'm saying I've got to get
two monster defensive tackles inside and not your typical three

(35:36):
technique tackle, but a run because I didn't get my
pass rushing aside from Dexter, Lawrence and.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
I think Grant. I think some of these defensive tackles
who are run guys in this draft can are better
than run guys. They can't. They're not gonna get.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Eight sacks a year, but they're gonna get four sacks
a year with a Bowl rush and getting the quarterbacks
face I can you know, so I would have a
hard time in that scenario.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
But that gets back to what I was telling you.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
If you really like Donovan Jackson, you can you can
wait on the defensive tackle and get get get those
defensive tackles later in the So every time Zabel's there,
I take Zabel like, sounds like you're punting on the
quarterback and you don't give a shit about Darter Milrow there.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
I don't like the quarterbacks. I don't like the quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
So then that nails us down to the trenches again.
So then you've got you'd like Kenneth Grant more than
Walter Nolan, Fine, you like Gray's Abel more than Donovan Jackson. Fine,
So then the.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Conversation is Nolan I like, but I have some question
marks about him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
But then so then Kenneth Grant versus Gray's Abel, that's
the conversation.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
I would take Sable there because I think you can wait.
I think there might be a really good defensive tackle
still there at sixty five.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
So I think, is there a defensive lineman that you
would take over grades Abel there? If they fell like
a Harmon.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Oh God, Harmon's there. I'm taking Harmon because I think Harmon.
I think Harmon. It's like Dave just brought up and
and I've and I've seen a number of people bring
this up recently, and I know that some people have
questions with Harmon, with with him transferring. I think Harmon

(37:31):
is close, closer to Dexter than I realized when I
started looking at him. So I think I think he does.
I think he does a lot of things. I think
he plays the run really well, and he can rush
the passer and I think he's a better pass rusher
than he even showed.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
I think it's your your guy from the draft Bible.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yeah, I think he mentioned how close he came on
the getting even like doubling.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
His sacks there. I would not be upset with either.
Let me that that's that. Let me put this out there.
That's why I pass on the quarterback there.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Because if you telling me, those two offensive linemen are
there and those two defensive tackles are there, and I
don't think that's gonna happen somebody. All those guys can't
be there.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
But if they were there, unless I.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Love Jalen Milroll, how do you pass on that?

Speaker 1 (38:28):
I mean, give me something to think about. With Derek Harmon,
Jamari Caldwell, Jordan Birch, there's like the Old Miss defensive
line with Walter Nolan. They're loaded, right, So are those
stats inflated because of the production of that group overall?

(38:49):
By comparison to a Gray Zabel who named me another
North Dakota State offensive lineman. That's coming out ice here,
you know what I mean? So, like, at what point
is that standard loan value something to kind of take
notice of?

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Well, you pointed it out with with John Schmilk on
your show. There are a number of programs that were
loaded on the defensive line this year, Oregon. You had
Texas Miss, Old Miss, It's.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Ohio State, Georgia.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
So I've I've always even when I was younger, young,
once I was a young, a young man, even when
I I did realize or understand that sometimes we can
over rate, easily over rate a prospect because they were
on a really good football team. And sometimes there's there's
a not Sometimes often there is an advantage to looking

(39:44):
at the guy that played really well when he was
the only guy, good guy on that team and everybody.
He was the focus of of the opposition, So you
have to be a little bit careful too sometimes with again,
like what you just said, if the team is loaded,
you can't double team somebody. So there is there is
something that he said about that when when when the

(40:07):
few times that Zabel's there, I draft him.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
So I'm I'm leaning in that direction.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
And for the same reason that I mentioned earlier is
the defensive lineman. You can get good, good ones unless
there's a run.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
You never know. That's the thing.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
I have run simulations where I'm like, well, I'm gonna
still get a really good one at at at the
top of the third round, and if every every now
and then it's like, no, I don't know, I'm not
you know, like you said, you can get guys in
the fourth and fifth and there are guys that again
they can help. But what I what I want is

(40:44):
that guy that is so good next to Dexter that
the Giants defensive front becomes a nightmare at the block.
So and again I think you can get gems later
in the in the draft, and some of these guys
are gonna I mean, I I think I think you
would agree with this. I think some of the guys
that might go later and the defensive line will be
and wind up being better football players than the guys

(41:07):
that went earlier. That happens in every draft anyways, every draft.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
But there are guys.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
There are so many guys in this draft on the
defensive line, which is interesting. I don't know if you've
picked this up too. Is they have so much position
versatility that they can play anywhere on the defensive line.
And some of these colleges might have not played them
in their ideal spot anyways, because of the very same
thing that you just mentioned. It was a numbers game,

(41:34):
so maybe they didn't play in their natural spot and
they'll be they'll be better than they were. So I
find it's funny with when people are commenting on this
defensive line class.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
And I heard it in your show, but I've heard
on a ton of shows they'll say, you know, you know,
I really really like this guy. No one's talking about them,
and it's always a different name. So that's how deep
this defensive line classes it's like. And and there they last.
Some of these guys are lasting to the fifth round
and then so so so.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
But anyway, long way, long story, short on your question.
I think I'm going offensive line there.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Harmon's there. I think Harmon, I'm not fish.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yeah, I don't think I'm passing on Harmon Frable Harmon.
That's a tough call to me. I think I'm I
think I'm taking Harmon. I don't think Harmon's gonna be there.
So I think it's moved Rabel somebody.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
I keep doing that. I keep doing that. You know.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
The other problem I'm having with is the Schamars in
this draft. Stewart, Yeah, I keep getting them confused. And
there's a lot of people with two letter names and
t j's and hi.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
And t J and t J and.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Yeah, well I don't even know what we were talking about.
But anyways, Yeah, I think I think I think Zabel.
I saw somebody. Oh it was y too eight on BBI,
who always connects the dots and ways that I don't
understand how he can connect them. But he said, there's
a really good close connection with the coach now on

(43:23):
the Detroit Lions with the North Dakota State program, and
he has a hard time seeing Detroit passing on Zabel.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
So yeah, I don't think Sable's gonna make it to
our pick. At thirty four that just a solid ad
reminds me of a grand partner came out of Duke
a few years ago, you know, where there was just
like a lot of hype around him and position versatility
and he didn't escape the first round. I believe he
ended up with the Bucks somewhere in the twenties. So

(43:52):
I expect the same at Isabel. But yeah, like people
are going to fall. That's the moral of this story
and discussion. And and then when you're in the hot
seat as a gem, and then you've got to make
the decision of man, like what if you have two
or three players that are graded in the same tier

(44:14):
on your board and they fill positions in need and
then the conversation is like shit, you know, like which,
Like there's a great spot to be in, but now
I got to make a really tough call, and you know,
incrementally one might be slightly better than the other. And
how am I going to justify which route I go?
Or do I just you know, get a call from

(44:35):
somebody offer me something crazy to trade down, because again,
that's a sexy spot to be in where there's going
to be some somebody available that somebody's going to want
to trade up for. But yeah, we can harp on
scenarios all day long, and.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
They could trade down from thirty four.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
And that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
You and John, You and John talked about that. I
think it's runn they're gonna get from. And I'm not
talking about way down.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
I'm talking about if somebody calls up, and I think
John painted this scenario, and it's a realistic.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
It is a realistic scenario. If somebody calls up and says, will.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
You drop down four spots and we'll give you a
fourth rounder, and I would have to listen to that,
listen to that offer, only with the caveat of say
that if you drop down four spots or five spots,
you have four or five players that you would love
it at that spot.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Anyways, I don't want to get in.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
A position where, in the worst case scenario, the three
say there's four guys that you love, but you went
down five spots and all those four guys are gone.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
So with that, I would do that.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
But an extra fourth rounder, and again listeners out there
are going to say, God, it's a fourth rounder. That's
not going to mean anything in this draft. I think
it means something, and as you and John Schmelk said
earlier too, that if you do have an extra pick,
then maybe taking a swing at the quarterback is more palatable.
You can, you can you can take you know, you

(46:04):
can just take a shot at that point and say,
you know what, it didn't cost us anything. We kind
of got the guy we wanted in the second round
anyways that we would have taken and maybe they would
have taken. And then we've got the extra pick, and
you know what, we're going to take a shot at
this quarterback. We don't were not one hundred percent sure
about him, but we think it's he's worth a shot,
So it just makes it easier to do that.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Yeah, no, absolutely, move it along to the third round.
You know, we can hypothesize and pontificate on how round
one and two went, but assuming that they play out
however they play out, and we're agnostic on position that

(46:45):
we're addressing with our two picks in the third round.
You've been hammering the simulators. It sounds like at least,
you know, it sticks to a dozen in a day
at this point, which I'm proud you bumped it up
from the rookie numbers to the big leagues. But who
are some of the names that you like there in

(47:06):
the third round?

Speaker 3 (47:08):
Well, again, it depends on what I do at thirty four.
So if I take the offensive line at thirty four,
I'm getting a little bit nervous about the defensive line
at that point. Not because again there won't be guys
later in the draft, but I want to get a
I want to get a good.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Who are the guys you repeatedly take in the third round?
You know, at the beginning and at the compict.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
I don't know why I keep gravitating towards him, but
Alfred Collins is a guy that I make a lot
if he's still there now.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
When I went back and looked at the tape, I
like his body.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
I like his not that they're I just I just
like he's got that length yep. He's got a physical
presence to him. And I find myself a lot of
times going if he's there, if he's there, And I
find myself, I don't know if you do this too.
Are there guys that you kind of feel when you

(48:07):
do the simulators that you get a little bummed when
they're not there and you were hoping that they were there.
And he's one of those guys that I get a
little bummed if he's there, if I took if he's
not there, and if I took the offensive lineman, that
that's there.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
When you do the simulators enough, you figure out the
boards so much on all the sites that you know
who you're going to be able to get when, which
I wish they would update. Oh no, but yeah, that's
the thing, right, It's like you just if you do
it enough, if you're a psychopath like I am, then

(48:40):
I know where I'm going to be able to get
Alfred Colins when I'm not going to be able to
get him depending on which simulators site I'm using. But yeah,
uh you then you got to kind of play it
by ear. I didn't mean to cut you off, though.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Continuing, No, no, no, I'm looking over my list right
now and there's so many interesting names.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
You know.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
One of the hard things I have is when to
pull the trigger on the running back. So when you
start getting into the third and fourth round, that's when
I start thinking, and I know, you like this guy
a lot, and he goes depending on what simulator do
you use, he goes. Sometimes he goes in the second
round I don't think he's going as high as the

(49:20):
second round, but he generally goes around the third or
the fourth round, and that's scataboo yep. So he's a
guy that I often I don't know what it is
about him, and I don't again, I'm not one hundred
percent sure his game will translate if he was playing
like we've said this before, if he was playing in
the eighties and nineties, I know he would still be
like that guy. But I just love the way he plays.

(49:42):
I know John Schmelk was talking about He said the
same thing to you. He likes the way he plays.
But he's a guy that if you're going to get
you probably have to start thinking about in the third
or third or fourth.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
That's my feeling. Now, what happens in the real world,
I don't. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Martinez is another guy that I've starting to I like
the way Martinez to me is a guy that's interesting
because he's a big guy that can break tackles, but
he has a little wiggle to his game, so he
doesn't very versatile. He doesn't look for contact. He's not

(50:16):
so he's he tries to avoid it, but when it
happens he can get away from He had one run
and I'm sure you've seen this where he was in
the pile and he broke out of the pie, like
holy and my and my wife doesn't care about this stuff,
but I was like, you got to come in here
and look at look at this guy and he can
catch the ball. I've talked about this for I think

(50:37):
Davile likes guys who can catch the ball, and I
think we've got to also look at guys that are
good in pass protection and so so again, where one
of the problems I'm having a hard time figuring out
is when is Martinez going to go off the board.
I don't know when he off the board, but I
think when you start getting in in the third and
fourth rounds, if you think they need a running back

(50:58):
in that running back is going to get significant snaps,
then you start have to start thinking. I just don't
know how Brian Dabole envisions what his running game is
gonna look like. If I knew what the Giants were
gonna do with the running game, and you could tell
me that they're gonna get an equal number of carries,

(51:22):
and I can make an argument for running back but
if if Tracy's gonna get the bulk of the carries,
then I would wait on a running back.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
So I don't really know.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
And this kind of goes back to well, if you
look at the visits that they've talked to, they've talked
to Scataboo, like they've talked to a lot of Gordon. Yeah. Right,
so it's like maybe they are looking unless that's some
sort of a chess move smoke screen. Right, it seems
as though in that third to fourth round range, which

(51:55):
is that sweet spot you're talking about for that tier
of running backs, it's a really viable option for them.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
You're not getting Hampton.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
You're not getting Hampton past now thirty four, and but
Hampton's been a thirty visit. Caleb Johnson's been there, and
you're you're probably hoping he falls to to you at three,
but he may go before that. I think it's been
interesting that they have been visiting with predominantly bigger, physical guys.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I would have predicted the obvious. I would have thought
they would have gone in the now again and again.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
The traditional thinking is, yes, you go thunder and lightning,
you have the big back. But I just thought with
Brian Dable, because I've never gotten the impression that the
Giants under Brian Dable were ever going to.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Be a power running attack, right, you know, never.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
They never even look at the offensive lineman they got
last year. They're not like the They're not a mauling team.
So so a lot of the projections that I have
trouble with the Giants right now is this is I
don't know, and I don't mean this as an insult.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
It's gonna come out from it.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
I don't know what they're trying to do sometimes on offense,
and I don't know what they're trying to do on defense.
If I knew what they were trying to do, this
would be easier to me. If the Giants under Bill
Parcells and Bill Belichick, I knew the exact kind of
defensive linemen they were trying to get when back in
the nineteen nineties and two thousands when they ran a

(53:22):
four to three, I knew exactly what kind of defensive
ends they were looking for and what kind of defensive
tackles are looking for. I'm not sure I get what
they're doing up front. This gets back again to are
they really going to run three? I mean because when
they signed Golston, I know they're going to kick him
inside and use him at three technique in pass rush situations.

(53:44):
But in Dallas he was really a four technique guy.
Was he was an end for them. If they're going
to go more that direction, then I think that really
opens up the board. When you're talking about the rounds
three and four, that that's when I'm starting to look
for the big defensive ends that are predominantly you want

(54:06):
to run player, but they can also get heat on
the passer. I don't know where Birch is going. I
expect higher, but Birch to me, and against Avian Jones
to me, seemed like really good options. If you want
to get fiscal nasty with Philadelphia, get a big defensive
tackle next to Dexter Lawrence, and then also double dip

(54:28):
and get a big physical end also play next to
Dexter Lawrence, and then you know Brian Burns and Carter
and Thibodeau coming off the edges.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
However, you do that rotation.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
The running back thing. Going back to that for a second,
When I was did the show with Paul Tatino the
day after you and I did our first show of
this cycle. Paul brought up a really good point on
the big body running backs in the vein of we
haven't been able to get at the like three four

(55:02):
yards when we need a first down or on the
goal line when we just need to be able to
pound the rock in there. We haven't been able to
do that in so long that maybe they are looking
at the bigger body running backs for those situational type
of scenarios where it's like, okay, you know, I mean
you put a Cam Skataboo or Johnson Cale Johnson, Yeah,

(55:27):
you know, and it's just like, all right, go fall
forward for four yards, no problem, we can do that.
So I kind of feel that. And then on the
defensive line front, I agree with you. You know, we definitely
need to run stuff in defensive tackle. But there are
a ton of guys this year like Atuoy Malau from

(55:48):
Ohio State, or Jared Ivy or Saban Jones or a
Tyler Barn where they are that it gives us optionality
of do they play at the they play at three tech?
If we convert to a four to three in the
near future, could they still play defensive end in a
four to three? So I think that there is a

(56:11):
lot of validity to that conversation and potentially, O, look,
I'm if they it depends as well what they do
in the first round, right, because if they take Abdul
Carter and then they take Kenneth Grant and then what
we're gonna take like another I mean, I wouldn't be
mad at it, Eric, don't get me wrong. Like we
just we get a outside linebacker, edge rusher, we get

(56:33):
a defensive tackle, and we get a defensive end and
you just completely load up on that right out of
the gates, like okay, fine, Then again, my whole thing
is I want my opposition to fear me when they
see me on the schedule, and nothing in Steel's spear

(56:53):
right now with the Giants on either side of the ball,
so loading up on the defensive line the pas Russia,
I'm totally there for it. And yeah, there is a
lot of quality value there. But I do agree with
you in the vein of a lot of these defensive
ends a La Golston, who we signed in free agency,
could play a traditional four to three defensive ends spot,

(57:16):
could play three four three tech defensive tackle spot. Like,
There's just a lot more options there. So given the
fact that he's the guy they signed, I would assume
that they would probably try to add somebody in this
draft that's a similar flavor to him.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Right, And there's guys that Again I see mixed reports
all over the place about but I could see how
some of this is also bringing an attitude that Texas
am m Schamar Turner. He's kind of kind of a
reputation of being a feisty guy, let's put it that way.
But some people are high on him, some people aren't

(57:54):
high on him. What my and I keep harping on this,
but this is where I'm This goes back to the
offense and the defense. So take a step back, and
what is the strategic goal of this regime to make
the offensive more explosive, and what's the strategic goal of

(58:16):
this defense to become more intimidating in a top ten unit.
So if you could tell me what their vision was,
it's easier for me to peg these guys in. That's
why this gets a little bit guessie at this point.
For example, does Brian Davis sit down with his offensive

(58:36):
coaches and say, Rice, we scored sixteen points a game.
I had a double check this morning because the Colts
game did kick it up to sixteen sixteen.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Points a game.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
It was fourteen or fifteen for a while there, but
they scored sixteen points a game. You can't tell me
just to switch a quarterback alone is going to be enough.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
How do we get to be a better offense? Because
the Giants borderline historically horror horrific for them.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
So how do we get better offensive lineup front? So
so you said you had bought Paul Tatino on and
he said, we can't bunch the ball in, we can't.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Get the four yards.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
Is that more reflection of the offensive line or is
that a more reflection of the running backs. Saquon goes
to Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
And he go runs wild and here he was getting
hurt all the time, and we can't we can't get
the first down. So I part of me says, you know,
get and that way if you're looking for hints in.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Joe Shane's presser, and it was funny, I wish we
had mentioned this earlier. Art Stapleton had tweeted out that
the league requires that the gms speak for twenty five
minutes in these pressers before the draft, So Joe Shane
is required to go out there and address the press,

(59:57):
and he has to do it for a minimum of
twenty five If you watch the original live broadcast, not
the tape version that's on giants dot com and on
their YouTube video right now, but if you watch the original,
when they hit the twenty five minute mark, in thirty seconds,
when Joe shane was still finishing up a question, Pat
Hanlen's in the background going that's it, you know, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Let's get them off.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
It was really funny.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
It was almost like, before you say something, you met
your requirement, it's time to stop this. So there's not
They try not to divulge too much, but I did
think that at least they're thinking this way.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
All gms should think this way.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
He said, we have to think about what we need
to do to match up with the other teams in
the division, and that means Philadelphia. So if you're going
to match up with Philadelphia, even Kansas City learned this
in the Super Bowl, you better be damn good up
front the block that front, or you're going to be

(01:00:59):
And I know they've awesome guys, but unfortunately Philadelphia at
thirty two in the first round, they're going to be
able to they might draft draft one of those defensive
tackles that you or defensive ends or edge players or
something that that we might.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Watch them, watch them get Derek Harmon and then Giants
fans absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
I know, I mean could something like it could be
something It could be something like that. I kind of
expect them to go defensive line again because they're they're
smart like that. But what's your strategic vision for the
team will to me, you will determine what that because
I don't want to end up drafting using the high

(01:01:37):
draft pick. To me, high draft picks still mean third
round and sometimes fourth thrown. If you're talking about high fourth,
like did you have a high four? Don't draft somebody
you're not going to use that much. So if you're
not really going to use a running back all that
much with Tyrone Tracy or maybe you're trying to upgrade
Tryron Tracy, then it makes more sense to But if

(01:01:58):
you're not, then draft the running back later on in
the draft.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Because if he's not going to get the touches, use
that on a position that's going to help your offense
in a different ways. Get the widers there, get the
tight end. You had a great question with John Schmelk
when you yesterday too, what if if the Giants, what
should the Giants go after the tight end or the
wide receiver first? If they were going to go after

(01:02:22):
either on the second day.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Would you yeah? Which would shock you more?

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Shock you more? And you stumped him a little bit
with that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
He said, you know, that's a really good question, and
I haven't thought about that, so you could make an
argument like he was really high on its guy that size,
really high and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Tight end.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
So you asked me earlier what would you do at
at sixty five and in ninety nine, and you know,
I don't know. Again, I don't know where these guys
are going to go. But if Ferguson's still on the
board in the third round, I'm like, ah, God, you
know that's tough to pass on too. Even though there's
a lot of tight ends farther down in the and
you've done this with the simulators too, there are times

(01:03:03):
when you're like, you know what, there's so many of
these tight ends and defensive linemen still left later in
the draft that I really like, maybe I shouldn't have
drafted the defensive lineman or tight end earlier in the draft,
because I could have gotten a good one later on
in the draft too.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
So it's just.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
One of the other things that's incredibly difficult to like
decipher with this regime. How you were kind of alluding
to what their identity is, particularly within the trenches, is
they haven't made a ton of picks in the trenches.
The last you know, last year's zero on the ball

(01:03:44):
line you like Evan Neil and then the couple of
guys out of North Carolina to keep it in a
doo doo, but that it was a while ago. Yeah, right,
So it's like you don't really have a barometer to
go off of of, like, Okay, well, last year they
drafted this style defensive tackle, this style offensive lineman for

(01:04:04):
you to be able to say, okay, well that must
be what that's we're able to figure out with the
wide receivers because of how they've drafted Wandale Hyatt neighbors,
they prioritize speed and elusiveness and ability to separate. But
not having those data points in the trenches really doesn't

(01:04:26):
give us any sort which I suppose is a good
thing heading into this draft, because then thirty one other
teams are also throwing their hands in the air, like
what the fuck are the giants doing, you know, and
who knows how they're going to prioritize it. But I
do agree with you, like personally, and I've tried to
get away from my personal thoughts because they're not realistic

(01:04:49):
in most scenarios, But personally, I would much rather build
up the offensive line versus drafting a running back, because yeah,
you're still not going to be able to open the holes.
If I got incredible offensive line, I'm not worried about
getting three or four yards. They're gonna move mountains out
of the way and I'll have a pulling guard come

(01:05:09):
through there. If I've got a competent right tackle and
right guard and then an incredible pulling left guard or
center to come in there, and then you got an
inline block and tight end, They're like getting three or
four yards, I'm not concerned, Like anybody could try to
fill that hole and we'll just blast right through there.
So I would value that more, particularly in the context

(01:05:33):
of the offensive line, because of how many injuries we've
sustained in recent memories with that unit and the fact
that when we do sustain those injuries, everything goes to
shit and then nothing can happen, and then it's obvious, Okay,
well they're not gonna be able to run on us,
you know what I mean. So, and this is what
happened last year with Daniel Jones. It's like, you know,
we're we're not going to be able to establish a

(01:05:58):
run like Tracy here and there shore but not consistently.
And then you know that you can just rush the passer.
Daniel Jones is going to freak out, uh, and then
you know the results of the results. So yeah, I
would much rather build in the trenches.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Go ahead, I was to say, and I'm glad you
brought that up, because I don't know why I didn't
think about this earlier. So when a lot of the
again the simulations I run that I'm the most satisfied
with that. The third round is when I look at
the offensive tackles, because I think the tackle class kind
of drops off a little bit. There are some interesting
guys here in the draft that you can there's a

(01:06:35):
lot of tall, really tall tackles in this I mean,
Tommy's not seven really and that makes me a little
nervous with those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
But there's a lot of them.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
But like you know, if Ersery drops to that spot
or the Boston guy drops to that spot. That's yeah,
that's when I'm starting to look at those guys. But
I feel the best I feel coming out of when
I run the simulations. I get too defensive linemen and
two offensive linemen in this draft. I think there's a

(01:07:05):
lot of good guards in this draft that some of
you can even get on Day three, and so I
generally take the tackle early unless you get Donovan Jackson
and Jackson I think again, push comes to shove. You know,
he could play tackle. He could play tackle for you
if he needs to. But unless you're talking about Donovan

(01:07:27):
Jackson or I was gonna say for Abela and abel
you know, I'll give you another guy that I I
don't think the Giants would look at, even though he
might be there early in the earlier in the draft
and at thirty four, is is it Brooks the Alabama lineman?

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Book I'm sorry, Booker.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Is he the kind of lineman the Giants will draft?
Because they they seemed Again this gets back to my thing,
what kind of what kind of running game do the
Giants run? Even even John Schmelk was he had somebody
on his show on Giants dot Com and they were
trying and he was had a guest on and the
guest said, well, what kind of you know, the Giants

(01:08:13):
zone outside zone, and and Schmelt was like, well, they
kind of like to do this, and they kind of
like to do that, And it's that's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
What's the identity of the running game? What's the identity
of the offense? So, like you said, they've drafted. They
drafted three linemen in their first draft. They drafted John
Michael Schmidt's in their second draft. They didn't draft a
lineman in their third draft. So they've drafted four. Unless
I've been forgetting someone, I don't think I am. They've
drafted four linemen in three years, and three of the

(01:08:43):
four came in the first year, So we don't have
a lot to go on in terms of And again
the same the offensive line coach they had before is gone,
So what do they what?

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Those three in the first year pretty much shit the bed.

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
Yes and so and now now Chris snee is scouting
offensive lineman.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
But Brisilla as the coach now.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
And they didn't draft anyone last year, so we don't
know what they like. You know, what is chrisni telling
them what is Carmen Brasil telling them, I will be
shocked if the Giants don't draft an offensive lineman.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Relatively early in this draft.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
And I don't like to use the word shocked, but
I kind of would would be and I wouldn't be,
and I would be kind of shocked if they don't
take one. When I say early again, I'm talking about
the top of the fourth round up and I kind
of be shocked if they don't already take one defensive
lineman at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Yeah, I think it makes a ton of sense that
on Day two, where we have.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
Three picks on Day two, yes, two.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Of those are allocated to one defensive line and one
offensive line. And then similarly on Day three, out of
those picks that we have, one is defensive line and
one is offensive line. I think that that makes a
ton of sense. And then you're getting people that can
be more of an impact right away. You're getting people

(01:10:12):
that could be more of a depth and then if
they you know, play out in training camp or like
really dominate and then can be more of a rotational
guy straight away or hold down the fort what have
you like, I think that makes a ton of sense.
Whenever I've talked to guests about this, the theory is, oh,
there's no way that they take two offensive linemen, And

(01:10:36):
everybody can pretty much agree two defensive linemen makes a
ton of sense, even in addition to a potential outside
linebacker edge player. If they do go Carter at three,
there's still a valid conversation to be had around Okay,
well let's get a run stuffer and a three tech
guy or two run stuffers however you want to, you know,

(01:10:58):
frame it right, and I could see. Look again, I
like the interior offensive line this year. There's going to
be some good optionality like a Kubis last year for
US through undrafted free agency. So I get logically prioritize

(01:11:18):
defensive line more than offensive line with your draft picks
this year. But man, when are we going to get
our shit together in draft fucking offensive lineman? I mean,
every year we go through this same song and dance,
and everybody I talk to whether and it's the guy
Datino Schmelt. Everybody. We're all into, you know, the idea

(01:11:43):
of being able to build up the offensive line, but
we just never make that investment. So at what point
are we going to actually do that, and it is
a pretty good year for it. Like I get the
you know, offensive tackles and super deep by comparison to
years past, but you could still get some really quality

(01:12:04):
guys like Day three that would make sense, still better
than what you've had in recent memory. So you know,
there's got to come a breaking point. And my theory
has always been because of this is what Daved taught
me that when you build in the trenches, everybody else
around you just so much better. And we just haven't

(01:12:26):
had that mantra and I can't even tell you how long.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
And it shows if we knew, and I don't want
to harp on it, because we talked about our first
show guard. If we knew if Evan Neil could handle guard,
this conversation would be a lot easier right now. So
if they, if I see a need right guard, if
Evan Neil can come in there and be a really
good right guard for them and salvage his career, and

(01:12:52):
then I could see them drafting one offensive lineman at
some point. I'm curious. I wish I could be a
fly on a wall about Evan Neil. I mean, have
they given up on him completely or do they think
are they counting on him? I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Well, it was interesting in the press conference that Joe
Shane was like, we haven't made decisions on Evan Neil
and cave on Thibodeau, which if you had any confidence
in them, you'd say, yeah, we're picking up those options.
Saying that you haven't made a decision as an indication
or an indictment that it's negative. There's a negative connotation there,

(01:13:29):
you know what I mean? Because these are young guys
that you took with top ten picks in the first round,
you know what I mean, Like they were they were
your big swings early on, and for you not to
commit to a fifth year option on them, it's like, dude, yikes.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
Yeah, it's actually a good point that you know. And
maybe he did that because he didn't want he will
group them together because he doesn't want to single out
Evan Neil, so he just kind of grouped them together.
But maybe he feels that way with both.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
I don't know. I'd assume if they don't do the
fifth year option on both PR wise, that's gonna look
terrible for them. And the other thing while we're on
at pr wise, because I thought I thought about this.
I don't. I'm not advocating for it. I don't think
you could make the argument that one of the best

(01:14:19):
players in this draft is Genty. But there was no
way in hell if the Giants did trade down that
they could pr wise, I think draft Genty because of
the Saquan thing. I don't think that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
I don't think they could do it because it would
be kind of like the Xavier McKinney thing when they
got Holland and free agency. It would be like, I
can just see the press having a field day with this.
What are they what are the Giants? What are the
Giants doing?

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
So? Yeah, so I think they could just argue the
cap at that point because you're getting a rookie deal
by I mean, that was the thing with like draft
and Nuban. You know, letting McKinney walk Draft and Nuban,
you got a rookie deal. Granted, then you paid Javon Holland,
So that one you kind of shot yourself in the face.
So it's different when you like pay up for.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
A Yeah, it's just the way it looks.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
Regardless of the you can make an argument why it
did happen. You can make an argument why it was foolish,
but it regardless of what where you lie on it,
it just looks bad. When you combine it with the
public humiliation that was hard knocks it just it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
It doesn't look good.

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
And if you know the whole thing about the running
back value in the year after you get rid of Saquon,
if they took if they trained down pass on Carter
and take Genty, I can't even imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
I can't even imagine the part now. And it might
and it might be the right thing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
I'm actually, you know, Genty's one of those guys. I'm
very curious to see how he does in the NFL
because he looks like he looks like a stud. But
but as one of the lead lunatics in the draft conversation,
I will draw the line there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
I think that is that is borderline beyond insanity to
do something like that. And that's coming for me with
just saying a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Well, that's what I mean. They can't do it. They
couldn't do it. You couldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
I actually don't like Genty that much. I mean, particularly
based off of the draft capital allocation you would have
to make to take him versus the caliber of talent
that you can get on day two.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
Like I just I don't see that level of commedy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
Give me a break.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
But that's why I didn't mention his name earlier. You know,
when I think, but some people you will get drafted high.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
He's gonna get no, somebody's taking him in the first round.

Speaker 3 (01:16:31):
So so so big picture, I want to come out
with again, since we focused on simulations and what does
Eric do, I always come out with Hunter or Carter.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
At three.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
I want to get fun and trade down but in
the world, and I usually go offensive lineman or defensive
lineman at two, unless there's a wider like like again
the Ohio State guy if you know something like that,
or I'll play around with with maybe another wide receiver.
And then and three, the two third rounders and the

(01:17:11):
two in the fourth rounder. Again, somewhere there's an offensive
lineman in there. That's when I start looking at running back.
I might look at the other defensive line there. Again again,
if I'm looking at different kinds of defensive linemen, though
I'm looking at you might be able to play that
four to five technique. And then I get later on,
I find myself going. That's when I start later going

(01:17:32):
looking at the tight ends, and that's when I find
myself looking at the run. If I did take a
running back in three and four, obviously I'm still not
looking at running backs. But if I passed on the
running backs, I'm looking at the running backs later and
I can always almost always get a good running back
in the fifth round.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
It seems like.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
So, so now there is there is a difference between
them and the people higher than them. But it's just again,
do you value the trenches over the running back at
that point? And I tend to go with the trenches
because that's just my personal bias. So I like to
come up with stuff with a tight end and running back.

(01:18:10):
I would ideally would like to come out with a
wide receiver, but sometimes that and that's not another Before
we get off, I just want to talk about the
wide receivers real quick. But I want to get the defense,
the two lines, the defensive line in the offensive line addressed,
and not just sort of like just say I just
picked somebody. I want somebody I feel good about, going.

(01:18:31):
You know what, this guy's going to compete for a
starting job in a year or two and might even
might even start to share.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
I agree with you that you normally feel better when
you have that solid prospect on the offensive line by
comparison to running back, because there's just more of a
risk on offensive Like you got plenty of guys in
the running back room, and it's like, all right, well,
you know you could sign it undrafted free agent. You
guess I'm being late on day three, where like the

(01:19:00):
high impact guy. I mean, you know, then you kinda
if you have such a crazy grade on a Skataboo
or a Martinez or Johnson or whoever, and then you
pass on them, and then they become all pro, all
world and then you're like, damn it, why didn't I
do that? You know, Like a conversation that's been coming
up lately is Derrick Henry and how many teams I

(01:19:22):
that year I did not like Leonard Fournette. I was
screaming from the rooftops for Derek Henry. My buddies will
attest to it. I couldn't, for the life of me
understand why people didn't like Derrick Henry. But you know
he goes in the second round, so like there's definitely,
you know, validity in that conversation. Of like, well do
you pass on one of those guys if you have
such a high grade on them? But when you look

(01:19:44):
at you know, running back isn't egregious need for us.
And even if you do take somebody in the third
or top of the fourth, it's with the understanding that
they are going to be sharing the load with Tracy
by comparison to an offensive lineman or a defensive lineman

(01:20:05):
for that matter, that could wind up being a starter
and carry the brunt of the load much sooner.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
So yeah, so why would you draft Hampton at thirty four?

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
So not draft a running back at thirty Like, you're
no shot in hell, I'm drafting a round.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
Well, I'm like, like you said earlier, why is he
even in the building? Are they just trying to put
up smoke at that point? So it's not that Hampton's
not a good player, but Hampton would be a good
fit for a power running team that is going to
hand him the ball twenty five times a game.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
So they also need to just do their due diligence.
I mean, they must think highly enough of him as
a prospect that even though it doesn't make sense to
draft him based off of needs, If you're going the
BPA route and you have a high grade on him,
and it's like, Okay, there's a high likelihood that he
might fall to us. Maybe they've heard some rumblings around

(01:20:59):
teams one to trade up for him, and then yeah,
it is a chess move of like, oh now we're
interested in this guy too, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:21:06):
That's why that's the only thing I can think about
why he's coming in. Because again, again, if the Giants
were a power running team, you could make the argument.
But what they seem to be looking for right now
is back to split time with Tyrone Tracy, so split snaps.
So last year Singletary had like one hundred and one

(01:21:27):
hundred and ten carries and Tracy had two hundred and
something carries. So you're talking about that, I'm not drafting
somebody at thirty four who's a power running guy. Again,
he breaks I mean, he breaks big plays too, but
just to hand the ball off fifteen times a game,
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
That's not what I'm getting. I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
That's why I said we need to step back and
what's the big picture. What are the strategic discussions that
they're having. And the only thing I can come up with.
Why Hampton was in the building is exactly what you said.
They want to maybe entice somebody to like maybe trade
with them a few, you know, maybe pick up one
more picky be there.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
I don't get that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, you're never gonna knows are
important too so now and they do, like this regime
in particular has historically gone after a lot of the
folks that they bring in for thirty visits. So yeah,
you've got to talk about reading through the tea leaves.
I mean, that's certainly some leaves as you want to
be reading through because but yeah, I mean, if you're

(01:22:30):
really looking at that, then they are prioritizing running back
based off of the people that they brought into the
building way more than you and I are in this conversation,
you know, which then change it. Which I am not
going to be shocked if they do not address offensive
line early at all. They feel good about who they
have and they bring off we all. I mean, I

(01:22:51):
was uming last year we didn't take a single offensive
or defensive lineman in a year that it was a
pretty strong group for both sides. Like that was just
hillacious to me. But at the same time, like, based
off of that history repeats itself, I could certainly see
a circumstance where we do not take an offensive lineman

(01:23:14):
until later on day three, and they go with a
running back in the third round one of these guys
that they brought in, who a bigger body guy, and
then maybe that helps them form an identity on offense
or just get those short yard gains, which again you
and I seem to agree that if you draft a

(01:23:34):
solid offensive lineman, then anybody can run through a big hole.
That would certainly solve that issue just as much. But
if they would rather a ground and pound type of enforcer,
then you know it is what it is, which is
if you're reading the tea leaves of their visits and
who they've met with at the combine and that the
All Star Bulls and the pro Das and whatnot, then

(01:23:55):
like that seems to be more of the direction they're
trending in at that position.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
I did run a simulation yesterday where the offensive lineman
kept going before I wanted them into that round where
I like, damn it, damn it, damnit, and I did
end up getting I did end up getting guys with
my late picks that I was not unhappy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:15):
I was happy with. So I there is a scenario
out there where it could work out for the Giants
that way. If you and I do a post draft
show and where they don't draft an offensive lineman this year,
I again I will be shocked and I will be
done with this regime because I don't think they're going

(01:24:38):
to be that foolish. They can't go two full years.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
Without drafting an offensive lineman.

Speaker 3 (01:24:43):
They just they could. I mean I shouldn't say can't,
because you can always, but I'd be beyond shocked if that.
If that happens. Now, well they didn't, I don't know
if they would draft one of two. I mean, I
don't know if they'll do that. I think they I
think that the.

Speaker 2 (01:24:59):
Opportunity is gonna present themselves to them. There can't be.

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
There's been a lot of comments on BBI about this
guy can't be there, this guy can't be there.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
The numbers mean, the numbers don't add up. Somebody's gonna
be there. There's either gonna be a really good defensive
player there or when I said defensive lineman, there's gonna
be a really good offensive lineman there or there's gonna
be a really good wide receiver. They all can't go early.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
Something's gonna somebody's gonna be there that shouldn't be there,
and you're gonna be The chances are gonna be presented
with a really good opportunity to take a good player
or get a really good trade off, or maybe move
down a few spots and get another player if they
don't take the quarterback. Now again, not to repeat myself,

(01:25:50):
Jalen Jail Milrow was there, or say it's dart or whoever.
If they're there and they turn out to be a stud,
then again, none of that. But I just don't think
that guy's there real quick because something I forgot I
want to address with you. You you're a big inside
linebacker guy. So I've been trying to pay enough more
attention to the inside linebackers. I am not up the

(01:26:12):
speed on them yet, but there are been you know,
both I've seen pundits lately and also against somebody on
BBI say that the Giants are paying and you see
this in the visits too. They are attention to inside linebackers.
So I would not be shocked. And we haven't talked
about that, and I haven't seen I've hardly seen any podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
Talk about this. Nobody's starting an inside linebacker here in
this Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Yeah, no, I stand by it, particularly if you're looking
at in the sum I was talking last night. I
was shrunk about, like, at what point do you start
to get ahead of things where it's great, they like
Darius boss out, Deontay Johnson can't stay healthy for the
life of them, Bobby o'careca and Mike mikel mcfad and
both their contracts are up, you know, so it's like, Okay,

(01:27:03):
it's maybe not an immediate need right this second, but
if an injury happens, we're screwed. Next year, We're potentially screwed,
you know, like what happens if they don't like either
of them and we don't like what we're just Darius
Mussalzar starter going into the draft next year, you know,
I mean, like, come on, man, what are we doing?
So yeah, I'm a huge inside linebacker guy. They brought

(01:27:26):
in uh Swessenger for you know, from UCLA, which that
shocked the shit out of me because I'm like, wow, okay,
maybe they.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
Really are We're on the same page, you know, I
think they went out to see him. I don't think
he came in, but you're your point. Yeah, they went out.

Speaker 1 (01:27:42):
They had some meeting with him at some point, which
was shocking to me because that showed that they're at
least open to the idea of an inside linebacker.

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
Earlier, who are your top three line inside linebackers? Just
give me some I know you mentioned earlier in the
first part.

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
I mean, I'm a huge John Campbell guy. I like,
straight away top not even close.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
He is the pinnacle to me in this year. If
he falls to us at thirty four and we don't
take him, I'll lose my fucking mind. I don't see
how he gets past Tampa Bay Tampa, and I took
him in the BBI mock draft as a Tampa Bay
GM because they have such a need, uh inside linebacker
and he is such a perfect fit for them.

Speaker 3 (01:28:26):
You see Jalen Walker as a more of an inside
guy that against sort of sort of inside outside.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
Guy or no, I see him more as an outside guy.
And then you get into the Swessengers, which like, I'm
okay on you got.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Westioninger is not a big dude? Is he gonna be? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
I mean he's a decent size, but.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
He's the best of the guys out of the first
round probably consensus.

Speaker 1 (01:28:52):
Yeah, I don't know that I would.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Okay, that's why I wanted to ask you. That's why.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
Yeah. So I'll yeah, I'll go through minebackers with these
so like other names. Danny Stutzman at Oklahoma like him,
good size. There there's this guy Barrett Carter at a
Clemson who's pretty special. Like him, a decent bit. Jeffrey
Bassa at Oregon.

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
He in cover. He's a cover guy too.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
Yeah. Him and Eugenis Sante lighting up the Senior Bowl.
Very versatile, exactly what you want, like a modern day
NFL type of defense. Jack Kailer, who Rick and I
were raving about yesterday from Notre Dame. He is the classic.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
I mean, I'm glad you brought him up because I
was curious to what you thought about him specifically.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Okay, love Jack.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
Kaiser, No, no, no, you're good man. I don't see you know.
They they look at these these linebackers and they're like, oh,
he's got tight hit. I mean Jack Campbell had tight
hips coming out of Iowa and then he was a
projected third round pick. And then the Detroit Lions on

(01:29:58):
everybody take him in the first round. Then everybody's like, yeah,
of course, Jock Campbell is fantastic after the fact, you
know what I mean. So it's just like, give me
a fucking break. Leo Chanel was another one. When he
came out, I believe it was Wisconsin, sy and I
talked about him that year and I'm like, dude, Leishanell
should be a first round pick, and side agreed with me.
Leos Chanal drops the third round or whatever it was,

(01:30:20):
fourth round, goes to Kansas City, and he's all world
of Kansas City, you know. So there's every year, Uh,
there's incredible value in the third to fifth round at linebacker,
and I think that is a sweet spot for a
lot of these guys.

Speaker 3 (01:30:38):
So one other guy name that I yeah, yeah, yeah,
I've seen guys that really like him for what he is.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
Leaderbles uh huh oh No. Cody Simon. Do you like
Cody Simon.

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
At Ohio State? Yeah, I'm not. I'm not opposed to
Cody Simon. OK. I like the other guys I named
more than Cody Simon looking, but you know, I'm not
if they draft Cody Simon, I'm not furious about it.
And then like some other names you want to get
into Cannon or yeah, yeah, I like uh Teddy. Rick

(01:31:17):
has him in his top one hundred, which was he's
got brought that up.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
I love to talk about Rick. He had some guys
in his top one. I was like, oh man, I
didn't see that coming, right.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
Well, but that's the thing is that Rick is not
a consensus puppet like every other media pundit out there
who just parrots the same old bullshit. He's not afraid
to put somebody in his you know, top whatever, and
people will look at him like he's got three heads,
and it's just like, dude, this is what That's the

(01:31:51):
whole point of like scouting, right, It's like you have
your convictions with guys and then you stand by it.
So yeah, No, Buchanan is the guy that I like.
Dou Miss Johnson is a guy that I like. Higgins
at IOWA very stout. Kind of reminds me like the
Jonathan Goff talking about like another guy that came out

(01:32:11):
of that program years ago, just like a solid pounder,
you know, Chris Paul Junior like him, Francisco Maui goa.
I don't know if that is actually how you name
pronounce his name or not. Out of Miami, Yeah, out
of Miami. Yeah, No, dude, I could keep going into

(01:32:33):
the weeds.

Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
I think those guys are a lot of these guys
aren' Day three guys. So I think I think that
I think if you.

Speaker 1 (01:32:42):
Well, it's a matter of similar to the offensive line
and defensive line conversation, how much of an immediate impact
do you need at this position? Right, like inside line.
If Jehad Campbell falls here, then it's really hard to
pass him up. But then, okay, is he's starting over
Okarake or Mikeah McFadden, Like that's gonna be tough to justify,

(01:33:07):
not to say that he can't outplay them and then
become a starter sooner rather than later type of thing.
Or yeah, worst case scenario, he does start over one
of them, and then you've got Mike and McFadden as
your backup, like whatever, But yeah, if you if one
of those guys gets injured, then you're screwed. So I

(01:33:29):
don't think it's realistic that they're going to take an
inside linebacker in the first two rounds. I think that,
you know, if Swessinger. They look at him more so
as if he somehow falls to them in the top
of the third round, then that you know, like there's
value enough there to consider it. But I think inside
linebacker is more of like a third round, colm, fourth round,

(01:33:53):
fifth round type of thing. I mean, you know they
went after Muisaw last year in the sixth round. There's
going to be came Madrono is another guy out of
that program in U see La that Moussau and Sweessenger
are out of that. I don't think people talk about enough,
and he could be somebody to consider. So yeah, I

(01:34:14):
mean they're not going to be instantaneous starters for you,
But it's a matter of like how much of a
position a need is that to you as like a
coach and a GM right.

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
So yea.

Speaker 3 (01:34:28):
So they also are used to maybe trying to move
down from thirty four to a few spots and then
picking up another mid round pick. So again it depends
on who's there at thirty four.

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
I would love to trade down. I think it's more
realistic to trade down from thirty four than it is
from three. I mean, yeah, in my ideal world, Eric,
we're trading down from three and staying within the top ten.
And then we're still trading down from thirty four and
staying within you know, I would say ten picks of

(01:35:06):
you know, ten to twelve picks of where we're at
in the second round, and then amassing more draft capital
day two this year, you know, next year, whatever. I
want a lot more swings of the bat. And I
think that those two picks could net us some really
strong capital to play with this year next year. And

(01:35:26):
I don't think that the caliber of talent you're falling
back to in either of those scenarios is that drastically
off by comparison to what you're gonna get at that spot.
Let a team that's desperate for a particular player, whatever position,
take that spot from you, gather more picks and then
address more areas in need. Because we talked through all

(01:35:46):
these positions that I have with all my guests so
far this month, it's like, yeah, well that's a whole,
that's a whole, that's a hole, you know, like there's
a lot we want.

Speaker 3 (01:35:55):
You and I want to add another corner. And I
don't agree with Josh Milk and I agree with them
on most things. I don't agree with him that corner
is not in need. And he said that not only
on your show, he said it on other shows. Unless
you're completely confident Deontay Banks is all right, and unless
you're okay with.

Speaker 1 (01:36:13):
He's still believes in Cordell Flott, Well.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
That's what I'm saying, unless you believe in flat as
a backup. And again he was talking contracts, Well, Flot's
contract's going to be coming up at some point.

Speaker 1 (01:36:23):
Yeah, all those defensive backs are around the same age,
and they're you know, like early to mid twenties. But yeah,
a lot of their contracts come up around the same time.
So it's like, okay, well, if we don't hedge that
bet with some depth or quality player, I would not
be opposed to taking like a tree ms at the
top of the second round or something on that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
But I've done that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:44):
That's the other position, and that would I don't see
the Giants doing that. Yeah, I think they're not going
to give up on Banks yet, but I have when
I've traded down from the first round, when I've traded
down from three and I've got a bunch of picks
and rounds two and three, I will draft a corner

(01:37:07):
at thirty four.

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
I've done that if because.

Speaker 1 (01:37:11):
And I'm not mad at it. But Joe Shane and
the press yesterday alluded to the fact that cornerback is
really deep to him in this draft.

Speaker 2 (01:37:17):
Yes he did. You caught that?

Speaker 1 (01:37:20):
Yeah, that that to me is all right, Well, we're
not drafting a cornerback high at all. Yeah, and we'll
take somebody in the sixth round like how we did
with Darius move was out last year, one of those
seventh round picks that we have. And you know see
because yeah, like there's so much that I understand Schmelck's
position of like there's enough in that room right now

(01:37:44):
that if you got to kick a position down the road,
corner makes sense, and corner is normally deep in most drafts.

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
So but I don't think our depth chart at corner
is good at all.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
I think our chart is not good. Pick me a
position where our depth chart is deep to hear it,
because I don't think like, but.

Speaker 3 (01:38:02):
If but if what I'm saying is if if a
debo gets hurt or screwed, things get scary in the secondary.

Speaker 1 (01:38:10):
Every position group right now, Eric, you could say the
same thing. Bobby o'kerrit gets hurt. Mike and McFadden gets hurt.
You're screwed. Brian Burns, Kevon Tibodau gets hurt. You're screwed.
That's the Lawrence gets hurt, Golston gets hurt. You're screwed.
Take an offensive line, Tyrone, Tracy gets hurt. You're screwed.
My league neighbors gets hurt. You're Screwedo Johnson, You're screwed.

Speaker 3 (01:38:29):
Before we get off, I wanted to ask you something
when you were talking about running backs. What did you
think of Eric Gray when he came out or are
you he hasn't been more productive?

Speaker 1 (01:38:41):
Yeah? I like Eric Gray when he came out of Oklahoma.
The thing with Eric Gray was that he needs a
good offensive line because a lot of uh the dynamic
of him as a prospect was that he's a very
patient runner and he lets his block stet before he
makes whatever cut he was gonna make. And the fact

(01:39:04):
that we don't have an offensive line. If he goes
to a team that has a strong offensive line and
he can go back to being more of a patient
runner and things can develop and open up for him,
then I think he could be a decent back. Nothing incredible.
I never expected him to become a bona fide starter
by my means, but like a supplemental guy.

Speaker 3 (01:39:25):
Absolutely he hasn't ended up because I went back and
look and yeah, I mean player in college.

Speaker 1 (01:39:33):
The other thing with running backs, man, is which nobody
ever talks about this, but the CTE bug is real
and when you pound the rock, which he was not
shy from contact. And this is one thing that honestly
concerns me with Skataboo is dude, oh when you smash Yeah,

(01:39:53):
when you smash your head so many times. And this
happened to me when I played, and you don't I
mean this before they knew about ct and all that
kind of stuff. But my head was all kinds of
jacked up and I couldn't figure out for the life
of me what was going on. And I wasn't getting
diagnosed for concussions and stuff like you know, so like,

(01:40:14):
you keep playing, you make it worse. And then I
got put on a bunch of anti depressant pills and
like that just exacerbates it even further. So it's a
real slippery slope, particularly with like running backs and linebackers,
like the guys who do most of the heavy hitting
and I see it a lot unfortunately, where somebody liking

(01:40:36):
Eric Gray or a Scataboo or whoever that took a
bunch of hits in college, gets to the NFL, makes
a little bit of money, and then they just don't
want to smoke anymore. You know. It's just like, dude,
you're in a battle in the NFL, like it is
so it's a blood sport man, you know what I mean,

(01:40:58):
Like you have to. I honestly like guys that have
some sort of ship on their shoulder, like Jack Beck
has screwed up as gonna sound, but like him losing
his brother, he's got something that's going to motivate him
to want to be angry every game, you know what
I mean. And that is something that helps you sustain

(01:41:20):
a career in the NFL, as far as I'm concerned
by comparison to somebody who's like you know, doesn't have
atroshit atrocities or you know, like crazy things that have
happened to them in their lives that they can use
a motivation. I mean that was like Shocky Righty had
messed up stuff in his life and his childhood whatever,

(01:41:41):
use that as motivation and then like that's how you
can be that crazy, tenacious player through an NFL career.
But a lot of times at running backs, man, you
get in the league, you get a little bit of money,
and then you're just like, I don't want to play
football anymore, particularly if you started playing when you're super young,
so a lot of time, and I feel like that's
kind of where Evan Neil is is, like he's just like,

(01:42:03):
I don't I don't want to do this anymore, you
know what I mean, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:42:06):
What's going I don't know what's going.

Speaker 1 (01:42:07):
Yeah, well we'll never know, like those sorts of areas.

Speaker 3 (01:42:11):
That size implied that you know, it's it might be
you know something up here with him.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
So yeah, I mean JaMarcus Russell the poster child of it,
you know what I mean. So like there there's plenty
of instances where that's happened, but I see it with
running backs more than anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:42:29):
I never I never thought it's almost like you said
PTSD in a way, it's yeah, and then that then
you know, that kind of related to business, and they don't.

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
They don't catch all the concussions. Whenever I'm watching games,
I'm like, concussion, concussion, concussion, and they continue to play.
You know what I mean, It.

Speaker 3 (01:42:48):
Wasn't a thing you just got right. I mean's Jeff
Hostel Or they put smelling salts under his nose Super
Bowl and he didn't even react to.

Speaker 2 (01:42:55):
It, and they put him and they put Yeah right,
Harry had concussions or forty concussions in his career.

Speaker 1 (01:43:03):
The one difference nowadays by comparison to X. I understand
appreciate that argument is that the training that these kids
go through these days, they are bigger, faster, and stronger
than they've ever been before. So those collisions are amplified
substantially by comparison to Like I'm not saying that, you know,

(01:43:23):
a hit from Ray Lewis and Jerome Bettis was not
a big collision back in the you know what I mean,
But like if they both were playing today, they would
be that much faster, you know what I mean, given
like the training and development programs as they would have
gone through and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (01:43:40):
So you know, yeah, it's funny you brought brought that
up because I was just asked this week by somebody
who wasn't a real big football fan, but they were
interested in the concussion aspect of it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:52):
And they asked me that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:53):
You know, are concussions worse now? Are more prevalent now
than they back in the day, And I said, I
would have to think so, because every one so much
bigger and faster, yeah, than they were back in the day.
But flip side is that they were aware of it now.
Back and again, then concussion wasn't considered a serious injury. Well,

(01:44:13):
and now they're a concussion. You know. People didn't miss
games for concussions.

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
No, And back then, like now, they teach the heads
up hitting and stuff. When I played football, I led
with my head on every I played both ways as
a full back and a linebacker. All I did was
hit people, and every single time I led with my
head you know what I mean, So no surprise that
I had head trauma, you know what I mean? Like,
and I always ran as fast as I possibly could

(01:44:39):
and hit people as hard as I possibly could. So yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (01:44:44):
Would explain a lot dat.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
No wonder I come up with all these lunatic scenarios.
It Uh, it's something that I see in running backs
quite a bit. Is like you know, like that's where
a Damien Martinez is a safer bet to me than
a Skataboo because he's at least hedging the violence of

(01:45:08):
the game a bit more. It's had to say that
Skataboo can't sustain it, but will he have the drive
to do it for another ten years?

Speaker 2 (01:45:19):
Yeah? I saw him do one run where he laid
into it shoulder first when he's going out to the
end zone and he just stood over the guy.

Speaker 3 (01:45:27):
Yeah right, And I was like, damn, you are going
to damage your shoulder, you right?

Speaker 1 (01:45:32):
Yeah, Well, you feel invincible when you're a kid too, right.
We were all there at one point in our lives,
and yeah, you look for it, but then you don't
realize like, okay, shit, now I'm thirty and I'm starting
to fall apart, you know what I mean, And like
now my knees don't work as much as they used to,
or yeah, my shoulders shot. And until you start to
realize you're not immortal in your body is like a

(01:45:56):
car and eventually, like your mileage starts to catch up
with you and you start break down. Like that is
another thing that gets realized around an NFL career. And
then but then you look at like a Derrick Henry
and it's like, dude, how the hell is he still
producing that, you know, yeah, exactly, like without the injuries
and stuff. So like there are anomalies to it, but

(01:46:16):
more often than not, you end up in this scenario
of like we'll start to fall off.

Speaker 3 (01:46:22):
That's why I think scatup it is one of the
more interesting prospects in the STREP. I'm really curious to
see where he goes because I can see him not
being the right fit for certain teams or being like
you are talking about, very concerned about his shelf life.

Speaker 2 (01:46:38):
He's just he's a fun.

Speaker 3 (01:46:40):
Player, but you have to also try to think more
logically too, So if he drops, that's where I start
getting more interested in him. But he's just an absolutely
one player to watch well.

Speaker 1 (01:46:55):
I think that he's good as a hybrid guy sharing
a workload. If you're gonna put him in, it's like
you're every down back then I think you're gonna wear
the tread off those tires a lot faster. But if
he comes in to supplement a guy like Tracy, you know, like,
then then there's like a little bit more meat.

Speaker 3 (01:47:14):
On the bones there, so he can catch the ball
very surprised, and he's run so darn low to the ground.
He's just like a bowling ball out there. It's just
he's a weird, very weird guy. I had to I
had to like, he's another one of the guys. Again,
my wife's in the kitchen and I'm like, you got
to come here and watch this guy. This guy's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
Look at that.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):
Yeah, I know. I'll be watching tape on the couch
and like normally with the sound off because my wife
is watching some show and I mean they're doing a
mock draft simulator. I'm watching tape and then all of
a sudden, I'm watching tape on somebody that's a huge hit,
and I'm like, oh shit, startle her because she's like,
you know, in the middle of whatever show she's watching.
And then yeah, I'm like you want to say this,

(01:47:56):
She's like, no, leave me alone, you know, like shut
up with the football already. I'm like, don't worry. One
more week, one more week and we'll wiped out.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
I promise one more week. That's the way to tell them.
It's just one more week.

Speaker 1 (01:48:09):
So yeah, no, that's that's pretty much the song and
dance for me over here these days. But you you
you said you want to talk wide receiver.

Speaker 2 (01:48:16):
You want I know this show is probably running along.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:20):
I mean, I think it's pretty standard for us to
hit the two hour mark.

Speaker 2 (01:48:24):
Yeah, the My only comment with wide receivers is I'm
having a hard time stacking these guys with late. With
respect to the New York Giants, you and John had
a great point that I was going to raise with him.
Your interview with him was good, and I was like,
you're stole my thunder. I was gonna's gonna about this.

Speaker 3 (01:48:45):
So John said something that I also believe, but again
it's only based on the three and a half years
that they've been here, is that Brian Dables seems to
like receivers that can separate, and John I said, he's
not like a big fifty to fifty ball guy. And
when I look at this draft, there are a lot

(01:49:06):
of quick water bug kind of guys, not necessarily small,
but there are those two. This is a side note.
One of the guys that supposedly I don't know if
it was your buddy Rick who said it, but he
was impossible to cover it. I think it was at
the Senior Bowl was Tesz Johnson, and tes is so
damn small that people will have Rwandel Robinson flashbacks if

(01:49:29):
we dropped him, but they said no one could cover him.
But there are those tiny There are smaller guys like
that that you can kind of move all over the formation.
And I know Daveill they've because they've talked about it.
And again it wasn't hard knocks, but the other shows
that they they they've done leading up to the draft.
In previous years, they liked receivers that are interchangeable, that
they can move to all different spots, and I think

(01:49:51):
they do like run after the catch explosive guys. To me,
that seems to rule out a lot of the higher
ranked guys that I think are going to have a
good career. Like you mentioned Besh earlier. I think Besch
would be perfect on certain teams, like if he went
to the Rams, I think he's you know, I think

(01:50:12):
he's going to have a really good career. But what
I what I'm having trouble vision visioning is is that
the kind of wide receiver Brian Dable wants on his
team in his system will and there's there are big
slot guys in this draft, like Tesla, would they look
is that even are they even on their board? I
mean I'm sure they're on the board, but is that
the kind of guy that they really want in the slot?

(01:50:34):
Do they want a big slot because there's quite a
few big slot receivers in this draft. So when I'm
looking at these guys, I'm like, is this a New
York Giants wide receiver under Brian Davil. And that's what
I'm struggling with a little bit. And part of this
goes back to what you were saying with the offensive lineman.
We don't really have enough of a track record that
you know what they really like or don't like. Are

(01:50:57):
we automatically assuming they won't look at those bigger guy
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:51:01):
I think when you look at the little Jordan Humphreys,
you look at the Brice Ford Wheatons like they do have. Yeah,
they do have some guys with size. So it's not
to say that every single wide receiver on the roster
needs to be the small, shifty type. They have not

(01:51:21):
put a premium investment on a bigger body wide receiver,
and I do think that they prefer the smaller, shiftier,
elusive guys. But similar in the conversation we had about
running back and them looking at a lot of the
bigger guys, and this draft being particularly strong with bigger

(01:51:47):
body wide receivers. I think you will find more value
in a bigger body wide receiver at some point in
this draft, because if you want one of like the small,
shifty guys, you pretty much got to do that on
you know, I mean day one if you say that
Travis Hunter is a wide receiver, or more so Day

(01:52:08):
two in the second third round, be the top of
the third or the comp pick. There are guys, smaller
guys later on, but I think if you really want
an impact guy, you're gonna have to allocate a Day
two pick to one of those positions by comparison to
if you want a more big body individual, you could
get them day.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
Three all day so correct they look at one of
some of these guys that might bigger guys, which I
don't think they will like. For instance, and you know,
where does where is his name?

Speaker 1 (01:52:44):
Here?

Speaker 2 (01:52:45):
Where does am never say his name? Like a yeah,
where does he go in this draft?

Speaker 1 (01:52:54):
Where? Where does but he's he's six to two right?

Speaker 2 (01:52:58):
But where does Trey Harris go in this draft?

Speaker 3 (01:53:00):
I mean, and I mean I don't see the giants
like taking one of those guys early.

Speaker 1 (01:53:05):
Those are second third round picks all day.

Speaker 3 (01:53:07):
Yeah, but I could see, like, for instance, I could
see them liking more is.

Speaker 2 (01:53:14):
Jalen Royals.

Speaker 3 (01:53:15):
I could see you know, that seems like a that
seems like a Dable receiver to me. Jalen Knowles seems
like a Dables receiver to me. So what I'm but
I don't want to do. And I think this is
where you were going too, is we don't have enough
of a track record now to know should we automatically
discount the bigger wide receivers? And I think, yeah, that's

(01:53:36):
what you're saying is maybe we don't know yet these guys,
maybe they may want a bigger wide receiver at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:53:44):
We just we may not know that.

Speaker 1 (01:53:47):
Yeah, I think that you're looking at more so like
the fourth round guys of the ILK of Kyle william Uh,
Jalen Royals, A ty Felton, A, Xavier Restrepo. I really
like Xavier A Streppo.

Speaker 2 (01:54:07):
But yeah, people hate him or they like him.

Speaker 1 (01:54:09):
Yeah, Well because he ran one of the forty times
really slow. Yeah, forty time wise, he's slow. Game like there,
it's drastically different.

Speaker 2 (01:54:21):
Something some insane, insane catch.

Speaker 1 (01:54:27):
You talk about Cam Word being a fantastic quarterback, somebody
had to be catching all those crazy balls for him,
and more often than not it was Xavier or Streppo.
And he's yeah, a guy that you could get, uh,
you know, fourth round, maybe even fifth round because again,
like similar to running back, you've got a bunch of
wide receivers that a lot of teams who need a

(01:54:49):
wide receiver will prioritize day one and day two. Thus
the other wide receivers will slowly start to fall down
the board because teams aren't going to be double dipping
at that position more often than not, So you're going
to be able to find some value in that fourth
fifth round range. Even if you're looking at some of

(01:55:10):
those smaller guys, I would prefer a bigger body somewhere
in the six two to six four range, more of
a physical you know. But like are they going to
do that? Who knows?

Speaker 3 (01:55:26):
And they got a contract decision they're gonna have to
make at some point with Wandale too, So that's why
I would not discount Kyle Williams if he lnkers. Kyle
Williams to me is a strange a strange guy, because
if you want if you, if you get the draft guides,
Kyle Williams doesn't seem to be very highly rated.

Speaker 2 (01:55:46):
But if you.

Speaker 1 (01:55:46):
Listen to media loves Kyle Wood.

Speaker 2 (01:55:49):
And if you watch the YouTubers who live and breathe
the draft stuff, you know they they consider themselves sort
of the amateur scouts. They love Kyles.

Speaker 3 (01:56:00):
I mean, Kyle Williams is a hard but for me
and for whatever reason, the draft simulators, even though they
have him ranked high, he always he's always lasting way
late in the simulators. It's almost like somebody that has
has it out for him, and says Kyle Wiams.

Speaker 1 (01:56:16):
I think the issue of Kyle Williams level of competition
transfer from U n L v ends up at Washington State.
Who the hell is he playing? Right? You know?

Speaker 2 (01:56:25):
So a lot of people say, you know, can't Cam Warre,
Cam Hard and him were together, weren't they at one point?
Or am I confusing him with somebody else.

Speaker 1 (01:56:35):
Might have been?

Speaker 2 (01:56:37):
But he's He's a guy that I've seen.

Speaker 3 (01:56:39):
I've seen people put him in the top five of
their and in other people they're like, nah, fifth round pick,
fourth round pick. Kyle Williams to me is a I
don't know where to peg him. Anyways, I just saw
that out there because he's one of those guys and
I'm like, there are there are a number of players,
and I won't say a lot of them, there are
a number of players.

Speaker 2 (01:57:00):
And Rick, your buddy, Rick really threw me with his list.
There are, there are, There are a few players in
this draft that.

Speaker 3 (01:57:09):
There's a wide discrepancy of opinion on him, a really
big discrepancy of opinion on And those are the ones
that are, to me, are the kind of the hard
ones to judge. Yeah, I like that. I like Rick
taking chances. I've said this to you before. I admire
the people as long as they have a track record.
I admire the people that get outside conventional thinking and

(01:57:31):
will say, you know what, this guy's better than people
are giving him credit for, or this, this person's not
as good as people are getting credit for.

Speaker 1 (01:57:39):
No one more notorious at doing that than our boy
Dave T Thomas h. I mean, you know, Kyle Duggart
from Leonora Ryan is one that I will never get
out of my mind. He was like, dude, Kyle dugar
is going to be a first or second round pick,
and everybody's like, the fuck is Leonora Ryan, you know,

(01:57:59):
and then share the Patriots you know, like it's but yeah,
you you've gotta if you get out of the group think,
as you like to call it, you really it's it's
a matter of doing your homework. You can see now
doing your own homework, how you can formulate your own
opinions on players because you do your due diligence and

(01:58:20):
then you come up with your own rankings and.

Speaker 2 (01:58:23):
What have you.

Speaker 1 (01:58:24):
But most people, uh, just watch shows like podcasts or
NFL Network and like pat to the Draft and this
and that, and they read stuff on the Corner Forum
and it's like, oh, well, this is what Cy said,
so I have to puppet and pairrot the same shit
that well.

Speaker 2 (01:58:42):
And the other thing is if they don't haven't heard
of them players, name that he sucks.

Speaker 3 (01:58:47):
But that's crazy that BBI. My my worst pet peeve
on draft weekend is the guy thinks because.

Speaker 2 (01:58:56):
I have not heard his name, that drives me no.

Speaker 3 (01:59:01):
And it doesn't matter how many times I warn people
that's a dumb way to look at this. It's it
still happens, you know, airy year, and it just strikes
me crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:59:11):
Well, the most fans like you in recent memory, how
many players like you were getting through what the first
and second round? Yeah, you know, and that's where most
people cut off. So yeah, you just you're never gonna
get into the depths of like day three and beyond.
But I think that's where like I keep a tighter

(01:59:33):
circle with the likes of a Sy and Rick and
guys I know that do the homework and watch. I mean,
if you go listen to the show that I did
with Rick yesterday, I mean every position group we went
into the late day three and undrafted free agents, and
there just aren't a lot of people that I could

(01:59:53):
talk to about that kind of stuff. But he does
his homework. He comes up with his own opinions. Same
with Si, you know, right, and like those are the
people were actually respect their input. And look, there are
plenty of times where we'll disagree, and that's fine, you know,
like it's not a science, Like everybody is entitled to

(02:00:14):
their own opinion and it's all speculation. And he's you know,
but like that's the whole fun of leading up to
the draft, just so that we can inevitably just be
disappointed by what the Giants end up doing, because it's
nowhere near what we actually.

Speaker 2 (02:00:27):
Want fact there was a time when the Giants did well,
we hopefully, But let me give me one last example,
like the fans, so Charles Grant, William and Mary, how
many people have actually been even able to find.

Speaker 1 (02:00:43):
Tape to watch on Charles wat You know everybody. Everybody
just assumes, oh, well, he's a lower level of competition,
and he played tackles, he's gonna have to kick inside
the guard because that's what happens with those prospects, right guys,
right guys, Yeah, okay, yeah, no, Charles guare I think
it's gonna be a great guard definitely not a tackle
like you know.

Speaker 3 (02:01:01):
And I saw somebody and again it was one of
the I do think there is some value in the
YouTubers that do this. Some of them are pretty good,
and I like they'll have the differences of opinion, so
you know that. Like that, I'm talking about the guys
that even have.

Speaker 2 (02:01:17):
Have converted that or or used that platform to get
bigger gigs, like with Yahoo or whatever, like Tys did
and so forth. But I did see somebody who was
actually showing some film of of him, of Grant playing
at William and Mary, and he's so much bigger than
everybody on the field. Do you even judge? How do

(02:01:39):
you even judge that?

Speaker 3 (02:01:40):
I mean, you have to almost it's a projection. You
get him at the one of the All Star Games
and see how he does against you know.

Speaker 2 (02:01:49):
Better, better competition.

Speaker 3 (02:01:52):
But I think I think it was the draft Bible again,
you know, I saw a whole bunch of reports on him,
and then I think it was the Draft Bible that
was saying, and you know, they don't know how tough
a football player he is. You know how of course
that through back memories of the two Yukon guys that
we drafted at tackle that weren't the toughest guys in

(02:02:12):
the world. So it's complicated. You just said it. It's
it's it's it's I always say, it's more of an
art than a science. You don't know what's in somebody's head.
You don't know what's in somebody's heart, you don't know
when they Bill Walsh wrote in his book Finding the
Winning Edge, which is like the Bible of it's hard.

(02:02:34):
I don't even think that books in print anymore. He
had dedicated a whole chapter on why it's so hard
for rookies because the adjustment from college life to the
pros and you're no longer the big man on campus.
It's a job. You're going to a new city that
you're not familiar with. You've got an apartment, now, you've

(02:02:55):
got paid bills. You've got people that hang are hanging
out with you want you for your money. I don't
know if they can handle the mental part of the game.
He goes on and on. You list all these things.

Speaker 1 (02:03:05):
There's so many things.

Speaker 2 (02:03:06):
Yeah, and that's why a lot of these guys don't
don't pan out so well.

Speaker 1 (02:03:11):
And that's why it's important that you have individual meetings
with the players so you could try to assess that
a little bit more and more of an interview setting
of like what's your character? Like how are you gonna handle?
Like I would want to be asking Charles Grant, those
sorts of like, dude, you're William and Mary. You're about
to be in the Meadowlands with one of like the

(02:03:31):
fan bases that has been doooing more than any fan
base in recent memory, and you're gonna be in front
of a high school feel exactly You're gonna have to
deal with that. You're gonna have to deal with the media.
You're gonna have to deal with the fans. You know,
your cost of living is going up substantially. Granted you're
gonna make a bit more money, but like, you know, yeah,

(02:03:54):
I don't know where he's where he hails from. He
is from.

Speaker 2 (02:04:02):
Virginia, so yeah, you know, it's like they jumped the
goal of the Northern Jersey and yeah, and then.

Speaker 1 (02:04:09):
And then like also, you got a little bit of
scratch in your pocket and you're when you're a fresh
rookie and then all of a sudden, like you want
to go do a night on the town of Manhattan,
and then you go to a club and they're like, oh, yeah,
you're that rookie draft pick from the Giants. Oh we'll
let you in, and then you fall into that scene,
you know, like there's so much temptation around the Giants

(02:04:30):
and like the lifestyle and this and the that.

Speaker 2 (02:04:33):
So I wish I could go back in time and
been a fly on the wall in the Giants.

Speaker 3 (02:04:38):
I hope they had a meeting with him with Kadarius. Tony,
how do you come out now a meeting with Kadarius?
We want back pissed. I was so pissed that come.

Speaker 2 (02:04:48):
From they talk about character concerns with this.

Speaker 1 (02:04:50):
Yeah what he had, he had like gun stuff at Florida.
I was, I don't know if you're on that app
Clubhouse because that was like in the pandemic and it
was just like it's kind of like Twitter spaces where
like you have like a stage and then like people
could go up on the stage and talk like kind
of like the live streams that you guys do and whatnot.

(02:05:11):
And the NFL was on Clubhouse, Cynthia freeland Lands their
line and they were like doing the and I got
brought up on the stage for the Giants pick and
that year I wanted Christian Barmore and they hit everybody
at the NFL, Like some of my buddies are there,

(02:05:31):
like they all get the live feed and they know
the picks when they're submitted. So Cynthia Freelan's like, oh,
they picked Canarius Tony And I'm like, you gotta be
fucking kidding me. I lost it, dude. I'm like, why
the hell would we waste a pick on this clown?
Like not to mention what you are getting in him,
you could have gotten the third or fourth round with

(02:05:53):
a different pro Like it just oh, my god, one
of the biggest head scratchers him and DeAndre Baker.

Speaker 2 (02:05:59):
I was reading a scouting report.

Speaker 3 (02:06:01):
But I was reading a scouting report and one of
the wide receivers in this draft. I can't remember who
it was and not personality. They were comparing his joystick
moves with Kadarius Tony. But and now when I see
that name, I'm like, don't bring that makem up?

Speaker 1 (02:06:16):
Yeah, cringe, Yeah, no, I know, man, it's uh and
yeah no. That's honestly, the the biggest issue in recent
memory for the Giants is the amount of draft picks
they've missed on because that that has been the turmoil
of this franchise for far too long.

Speaker 3 (02:06:34):
And including when they've traded around, when they've traded up
or traded down. So people will say, don't pass on,
don't pass on another Parsons again.

Speaker 2 (02:06:43):
Again, it's not what the Giants. It's not just the
Giants passed on him, it's.

Speaker 3 (02:06:47):
They blew the picks that they got from again, they
traded up for Hyatt, for instance, and that that hasn't
worked out right Baker and a Baker Banks Banks, We're
still that doesn't look great right now, I ain't better picks.
So I don't like the argument when people say don't

(02:07:08):
trade up or trade down because.

Speaker 2 (02:07:12):
Look how it's worked out for us in the past. Well,
every draft pick in recent years hasn't really worked out
for us. That's the better.

Speaker 1 (02:07:20):
I will be optimistic the year that the draft alliance
with players I actually like. Until then, I will be
raging on my couch throwing the remote as most people
say on BBI. But yeah, we we have surpassed the
two hour mark. Okay, and for the sake of me
uploading this onto a site and not having to compress

(02:07:43):
it like I did, we'll wrap this one up. But no,
always a pleasure chat with you.

Speaker 2 (02:07:48):
But yeah, yeah, and we can do a recap, all right,
We should do a recap after the We gotta yeah,
I gotta do.

Speaker 1 (02:07:55):
Bobby Skinner wants to do a recap. I'm gonna have
cy on tomorrow lock that in so he will probably
be one of, if not my last show before the
actual draft because I got a work trip next week.
I gotta go on unfortunately, but yeah, we we appreciate

(02:08:16):
all the listeners. Check out inside bb I schmell coming
up tonight. I know I got to come back on
that show at some point in the near future as well,
that we're trying to line up still but officially one
week from draft day and the inevitable disappointment.

Speaker 2 (02:08:32):
So until let's hey, they can get better in this draft.
As long as they don't do something stupid, they can
get better in this traft.

Speaker 1 (02:08:41):
We can lie to ourselves absolutely, but appreciate everybody sticking
with us. If you're still listening this deep, uh, you're
a trooper, so we appreciate it. But we'll catch you
guys on the next scoutside our podcast.