Fan Favorite Eric Kennedy from BBI Returns

Dave Del Col hosts Eric Kennedy from Big Blue Interactive for their annual pow wow show. They do a deep dive on positions of need, some of which aren’t being discussed enough by main stream media. Ranging from roster strategy to position breakdowns, buckle up cause it’s a gauntlet. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to another edition of the Scouts on our podcast.
I'm your host, Dave del Cole, and we were pleased
to be joined once again by the founder of Big
Blue Interactive, Eric Kennedy. Eric, thanks for making the time.
Welcome back, Pal.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
This is our annual get together, our pow wow. As
you said, yeah, so this is pretty cool. And you
and I are both like kids on Christmas morning, So
draft is pretty cool, especially if you're a Giants fan.
It's the highlight of the It's the highlight of the year,
unfortunately in recent years.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
So it's when we can be the most optimistic.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, exactly, so leading up to it, and then I'm
normally disappointed to one eccent or another on Draft night,
so that it all kind of like falls apart for
me then, But for the time being, leading up to it,
running through various scenarios, it's certainly a whot. So yes,
I appreciate you making the time. Anticipate that this one
is going to be a little longer, so for guests
that are listening, buckle up, get your popcorn. We're gonna

(01:00):
be rolling here for quite some time. But yeah, a
lot to get through, you know, I said, in our
last show, the conversations around Abdol Carter, Travis Hunter should
or say like nauseum, those have been played.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Out so much so we're going to try to steer
clear of all that.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Granted, some of it might float in here and there,
and that's all good, but we're gonna be looking more
so at roster building and team needs and all those
sorts of fun things. We can get into some prospects
as well, but to kick off kind of factoring in
where we're at, even with the quarterback situation. Then we
got a couple of savvy veterans on the roster now,

(01:43):
but everybody wants more youth at that position. You end
up having to dabble with the idea of are we
trying to build a long term roster for the future
or are we playing to win this season? And I
know that that's something that is highly on BBI between

(02:03):
everybody on the forum and conversations out here around podcasts
and everything like that. How do you think the Giants
are looking at it and how do you feel about
it as a fan?

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well, you know, it's a great question because it depends
on what ownership really the mandate that they gave Joe
Shane and Brian Dable really is. And I don't think
we really know what I think you see a lot
of speculation out there in the media that they are
convinced that those two have a mandate to win this year.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
We don't really know.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
What was said behind closed doors. There's things that Mara
is going to say for public consumption. There are things
that maybe he would if he could walk back public
in public he would have done. Again, we don't really
know what the mandate is. If they really are on
a short leash, then obviously they've got to win some
games here. The problem for them and everyone who's a

(02:56):
Giants fan knows, this is the division. You've got the
world champions are in and I hate saying that the
world champions are in the division. And then now you've
got the Commanders who made unbelievably made it to the
NFC Championship Game in the division. Now some people think
they may come back to Earth. I don't know. I

(03:16):
think that quarterback they got looks pretty darn special. I mean,
we'll see if he has a sophomore slump or not.
But and then there's the Cowboys, and the Cowboys look
like they're a little bit in transition. However, they've owned
the Giants for years now. So if you if you
go you can only win one or two games in

(03:36):
your division, or like the Giants last year they couldn't
win a game in the division, how do you win now?
So that to me, that's that's if I was approaching it,
I would be looking at team building because I don't
think they're going to be able to catch these teams
this year. I think they can improve their I can
they win loss total, but they're not certainly going to
compete for the NFC East and something unless something really

(03:58):
weird happens in philadelp in Washington. I mean, we're looking
right now at best maybe fighting for third place between
the Cowboys right now. So if you accept that premise,
and some people might not accept that premise, but if
you accept that premise, then I'm not trying to win now.
I'm trying to catch the Eagles and the Commanders in

(04:21):
two years or three years. That's what I'm trying to do.
But what did ownership tell tell the GM and what
did the ownership tell the head coach? We don't really
know that well.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
And also fact during to that you've got one of
the hardest, if not the hardest schedules in the NFL
next year.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
So is it realistic?

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I mean, granted, we need to do better than we
did last year, but to your point, what's the reality
of us actually being competitive enough to and sort of
what is the ceiling?

Speaker 4 (04:52):
Right we win a playoff game?

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, isn't it Like isn't it like the ten of
the seventeen games that we play against playoff teams?

Speaker 4 (05:00):
Something crazy something like that?

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, And yeah, you look at the schedule
and there is nothing that gives me any sort of
confidence that we're going to be necessarily above five hundred.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
So I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
I'm in the camp of we should build this thing
long term, which could in theory then say bypass quarterback
in a shaky year at that position, particularly because you've
got a couple bridges there to help you out. But
like you're saying, what's the mandate from ownership? I feel

(05:34):
like since they retained them last year, like going into
this year, why would they shake them loose next year?
If there was a time to get rid of them,
it would have been this past season, right, the one
hundredth year complete the backle everything is a disaster picking
at the top of the draft again, so I have
to think that they've done something right enough.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
To get the opportunity to continue to build things is
more long term.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's a really good point, Dave. I don't think it's
been discussed enough. If you're going to give them this year,
then you kind of it's hard to argue that you
shouldn't give him another year. On top of that, given
where the team is and given the situation at quarterback
right now, again we have to take a step back
a little bit and say that, you know, their Plan

(06:23):
A was obviously Matthew Stafford that didn't work out. Then
it was Aaron Rodgers that didn't work out, and now
they're on sort of Plan C with Russell Wilson here.
So this didn't really go the way that they want
wanted to go, and they I think I don't know this,
but I think part of their plan too was to
get cam Ward, but now that seems to be out

(06:43):
of reach now unless I still think they might make
a call on the draft day to see if they
can shake him free, but I don't think that's going
to happen. I don't think the Titans are going to
trade with the Giants unless we offered something ridiculous, and
I'm not sure Marra will allow that. So so the
quarterback situation didn't really go the way we wanted to.

(07:04):
I you know, I'm a little bit of an optimist
in this sense. I don't think the Giants roster is
as bad as fans. I think a lot of Giants
fans have PTSD. I think we're really down, We're really
negative on this team. I don't think the roster is
that bad. I think the quarterback situation has been that bad.
I think this team has suffered from trying to replace

(07:25):
Eli Manning for years now. And unfortunately, they didn't just
strike out on Daniel Jones. They doubled down on Daniel
Jones when they redid his contract, when they resigned him again,
and that and that was, you know, obviously foolish too.
So they're they're still they're still haven't recovered from the
Daniel Jones fiasco. And that's but the rest of the

(07:46):
roster isn't bad. And I think the moves that they've made,
most of the moves that they've made in the offseason
are young guys that look like they might be here
for a while now. They did get a couple of
older one year deal guys, but most of the guys
are coming off their first rookie contract and are signing
you know, it's their second contract and they have an upside.

(08:06):
So I think they are building this the right way.
The problem is the quarterback. Where do you get and
when do you get the quarterback?

Speaker 1 (08:17):
But do you force the quarterback for the sake of
you need a quarterback?

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Like That's my biggest issue in this.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Conversation because I look at this quarterback class is like, eh,
you know, there's nobody that it doesn't feel like a
Jaden Daniels or Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. And I
get Patrick Mahomes like a later pick in the first
round on what have you. But Kansas City still traded

(08:44):
up to get him that year. You know, I'm not
of the mindset that any of these quarterbacks, even cam Ward,
is worth giving up additional draft capital when we have
a good young nucleus of this team, but we still
have a lot of holes to particularly from a death perspective.
So at what point are you shooting yourself in the

(09:04):
foot if you do force a quarterback day one, day two, Like,
if you want to take somebody developmental on day three,
maybe fine, whatever, but what's that really doing for you?
Unless you strike gold, which snowball's chance in hell that happens,
then that's also kind of a wasted pick, right, You
really need to love the quarterback, like everybody talking about,

(09:27):
oh well, take you know, Jackson Darter, Jaylen Milroe at
the top a round two and then you know, if
they fall down there, trade back into round one, you
get the fifth year option. If you do that for what, like,
do you really think that those guys are going to
level us up to a dynasty and winning multiple Super Bowls?
If that were the case, then why are they going

(09:48):
at the top of the second round? You know, it
just doesn't make any sense to me. So I would
rather punt on quarterback until I am sold one hundred
percent of the way, like with Eli Manning, you know,
And that.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Is not a plug for Arch.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Everybody calm down right where I am not saying wait
for Arch to come out whatever year that is, but
you need to be dead set on the fact that
this person is going to be our future. And I
just don't feel like these guys are the future, so
to speak. I feel like forcing a quarterback now is
more of a desperation. Heave to buy the GM and

(10:26):
head coach more time, because that's the argument, right, is that, well,
if they take a quarterback at three, then you got
to give them a couple of years.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
So if that's the case, then.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Wouldn't it be smarter for John Mayer to say, look,
I'm going to give you a couple of years anyhow,
because they could force his hand if they go that route.
So if he just says up front, which it kind
of if you read the tea leaves of the press
conference that Joe Shane had saying we don't want to
shoot ourselves on the foot, we don't want to force anything,
we want to have options, that to me reads more like, hey,

(10:58):
maybe John Mayer is saying, look, guys, you gave me
a three year plan, five year plan whatever at the
end of last season.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
I'm bought into it. Go out and do your thing.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
I've seen enough promise that he can't get any worse
than it's been.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
And it always worse.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Hey, every year we've been saying that, and I just
again trying to be optimistic at this time of the year, like, could.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
It really get worse than last year?

Speaker 1 (11:20):
I mean, yeah, it could, but like hopefully not at
least from a quarterback perspective. If Russ or Jamis doesn't
work out, you have the other one. But if all
else fails, bring back cutlets. But you know, again, none
of them are like long term solutions. But one of
my other points in the quarterback things, if you draft Shadoor,

(11:42):
you trade up for cam Ward, you take Jacksons, Dark,
Jalen Milroe, what have you, And then all of a sudden,
Russell Wilson revives his career and then you need to
re sign him. What are you just wasted that pick
that could have gone to an impact player at a

(12:03):
different position and need on this roster right like? And
then how long are you stringing along this rookie quarterback?

Speaker 4 (12:11):
You know?

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Do you end up in a situation where all right,
well we're gonna have to trade them to get some
value out of them because we're not going to start
them many times And that's best case scenario. Granted I
don't think that that's necessarily going to happen, but it could,
right So it's just it's a tricky situation to put
a rookie quarterback into the mix here, which is why
I feel like it's not going to happen as much

(12:33):
as mainstream media is pushing that it's still could.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
I think you're probably correct. I'm gonna play Devil's advocate
a little bit.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
Sure, Sure, Yeah, I'm so.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
I keep going back and forth. I've been exactly where
you are right now, and I've flipped to you and
I'm talking about it in the same day. So I
saw I saw Field Gates today this morning on with
Mel Kuiper, and they were making a very saye of
argument why the Giant should draft should or Sanders at three,
even if you don't completely, as you said, love the guy,

(13:08):
and I again, I'm not again, I'm not arguing this.
I'm making the argument though, because I keep back and forth.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
So quarterback is the most important position on the team,
and the Giants can build the rest of the roster
up and keep doing that, but until they get the guy,
they're not really going to the win loss record really
isn't going to improve that dramatically until they get a

(13:35):
good quarterback. That's just the way the league is right now.
The argument that you're making is where I've been to. Yeah,
but if you draft the wrong guy and you miss
the opportunity of cost of missing out on an Abdual
Carter or a Travis Hunter, then you've not only screwed
up by getting a quarterback that's not going to fix
the problem, now you've also lost the player that could

(13:56):
be special. That's the flip side of this. However, that
being said, you still got to get the quarterback at
some point, and you can only keep kicking the ball
down down. So what they were saying the argument they
were saying this morning, I was actually surprised mel Kuiper
was saying this, and I actually, you know, I don't
always agree with him, but he kept bringing up quarterback
after quarterback of the guys that were supposed to be

(14:20):
the sure things, and he kept bringing up names of
quarterbacks that were not supposed to be as good as
they were because they didn't have all the measurables. He
mentioned Drew Brees for instance, He actually mentioned Tom Brady.
He said, not you know, not the greatest arm not
not mobile guys, not not you know, big guys, but

(14:42):
they know how to play the position. That that's the
argument with shadur So where I'm going to play a
little bit at Devil's Advocate here is the Giants might
be one of those teams that have fallen in love
with Shador. We don't know that yet, but they they might.
They might be in love with Shador. They also still
may try to tray up and get cam Ward, and

(15:02):
we may love somebody farther back in the draft. I
don't know. I still feel that they're going to come
out of this draft with at least one quarterback, I
should say one quarterback. I just don't know where they're
going to do it. I don't know if it's going
to be at three. I don't know if it's going
to be with a slight trade down. I don't know
if it's going to be in the second or third round.
But I think they're going to probably still bring in

(15:23):
some guy. I just don't know where, and it still
would not shock me. I'm expecting on Draft Day this
when when when I'm watching the draft, I'm expecting either
the Giants, the draft, Carter Hunter, or Shador. I am
mentally prepared for any of those, and part of me
will be very happy and any of those three selections,

(15:47):
and part of me will be a little bit bummed out.
Like you just mentioned, you you always feel a little
bit down on draft the day after the rafter during
the draft because you missed out on something. So part
of me, if we get like Hunter, I'll be like,
oh man, that's really cool because now we've got a
wide receiver and a cornerback and that kind of fits
two things. But then I'll be like, well, when the

(16:07):
hell heck are we going to get our quarterback?

Speaker 2 (16:10):
So I'm in that spot.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
I'm already kind of I hate to say this, We're
in a great spot, but.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
We're in a bad spot.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
So the best probably outcome would have been to get
cam Ward at one if we if we didn't win
down the stretch and we'd gotten that pick, and then
we wouldn't have to be having this because if you
and I were sitting right doing this right now, in
the Giants had the first pick, I think you and
I would would be saying they're gonna draft cam Ward.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but
I'm pretty confident that they would be drafting cam.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Ward if they had the number one pick.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, I would assume that they probably. I mean that
would have also changed how they approach free agency, right,
so that would have been very talent. But I still
wouldn't want a quarterback much like cam Ward. Yeah, I again,
I'm not in love with any Okay, So here here's
my thing. Right, we're in this purgatory that we've been

(17:02):
in since Eli Manning of You talk about kicking the
can down the road inevitably, but if you force it,
then you continue to land in the scenario that we're in,
where we suck for a decade. I would rather continue
to kick the can down the road, even if it's

(17:23):
for another four years, to get the right guy to
turn this thing around for the next decade, versus for
something now shoot ourselves in the foot and play this
game all over again.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
You know.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Like that, it's a long term view that most fans
would not be thrilled with. But if I go back
to shout out Dave T. Thomas, how he taught me,
building a roster quarterback shouldn't be the first priority. You
need to build in the trenches. You need tolled out

(18:00):
from there, and you take the quarterback when the quarterback
is appropriate to be taken aligns with your culture, your
locker room, the skill set you need fit into your offense.
They need to check every single box. My thing with
Shador is like, if he didn't have the personality that
he does where he could handle the New York media

(18:23):
because like you're saying PTSD from the past and Daniel
Jones deer in the headlights with the me if Shador
didn't have that component, would he still be as highly
touted by New York media and Giants fans as he is.
I feel like so many people are buying into that
aspect of his package more than who he is as

(18:47):
a player. And yeah, he's like elevated, you know, a
couple of programs and ball. But I'm yeah, I'm not
sold on any of these quarterbacks. I would much rather punt.
And the fact that we've passed up on all all
those quarterbacks last year in a better quarterback draft when
it was still just as much of a need. They
knew it was the end of the road with Daniel Jones, right,

(19:07):
Nobody was going into last season like Man's. He's probably
really gonna turn it around this year and then we're
gonna ride with Daniels signed another contract.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Everything's gonna be great.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
I don't think anybody in that building was thinking that
naively about it, you know.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
So you know they were trying to trade up for May.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
We know that. So they tried to trade up for May.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
He was the guy that they and they we found
out from Hard Knocks they like Jane Daniels. I mean,
you saw you saw Brian daviles reaction on Hard Knocks
about Jane Downings. Oh yeah, I trade up for him
in the heartbeat. So they knew they had a quarterback
problem last year. They felt right or wrong, the other
three quarterbacks that went after them weren't going to be

(19:47):
the long term.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
They took your review.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
In other words, they took what you're saying, if you
don't love the guy, don't force it.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
So they did what you would have done.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
And that's where I think they're still at though, and
everybody's trying to I mean, we don't know what they're
talking about in the building, right right. We see all
the media headlines and what everybody is suggesting that they do,
but what they are actually talking about in the building,
nobody has a clue. Nobody's been able to project what
their plan is. You know, you could have guessed maybe

(20:18):
Malik Neighbors last year because he checks a lot of
boxes for them, fits their system, YadA, YadA, YadA. But
a lot of people thought trade up. A lot of
people thought JJ McCarthy. A lot of people if they
were so sold on Drake May, they could have made
a ludicrous proposition. There's always a cost that somebody is

(20:39):
willing to sell. Right if we said to the commanders
or to the Patriots, I'm going to give you five
first round picks, you know, right like, But if they
if you're convinced that that is your guy, you could
pay up. There is always a price for everything in
this world. So I just don't see what's changed from

(21:02):
last year to this year that gives me any sort
of idea that we're going to force quarterback when we
didn't last year.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
So with the caveat that, they may feel differently about
the quarterbacks than you and I do.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, absolutely they may.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
They may have a completely different evaluation of Chadour. So
one thing I do want to say a little pushback
is Giants. There are there are some Giants fans out
there that really like Shador. There are in my mind
at least that I've seen a lot more Giants fans
that don't like Shador. Because of the other stuff. So
I actually think the pendulum swung way too far the

(21:40):
other way in Shador. I think Shador, I think is
getting a little bit of a bad rap from Giants fans.
I don't think, because you know, You've got guys that,
at least on my site, who say, under no circumstances
what they want shado Or on the team. And I
think there are teams later in the in the first round,
even maybe like even the Rams, that they're if he
felt awesome, they love the draft, should do or I

(22:03):
think there are teams that that that he's not as
What I'm saying is he's not as bad as fans
think he is.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
So I think we won't know for a couple of years.
That's the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
And the other thing is and this is something I'm
glad they were saying this morning. Phil Yates said it
this morning. It's something I've been saying for quite some time.
Nobody in the NFL can pick quarterbacks. They can't. They
just can't. They It's almost a crap shoot with quarterbacks.
It happens every year. You the guys that you think.
I remember on BBI the big debate, and I've brought

(22:40):
this up before, but to me, it's it's the year
where I finally said, you know what, I'm gonna take
a step back from people who get too passionate about
quarterbacks in the draft. Was the whole debate between Josh
Rosen and Sam Darnold, and it was like there were
two sides and both sides were convinced that the other
quarterback was the best and they Giant should get.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Him, and neither neither one.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Now, Sam Darnold might still save his career here, but
again he didn't pan out. So my point is is
you and I could spend a whole show naming going
year by year which quarterbacks bomb that weren't supposed to bomb,
and guys in the lit you just don't know. You
doing the best that you can to evaluate these guys,
and you cross your fingers and you you just never know.

(23:26):
There are guys that have been gone in the first
three picks at quarterback every it seems like every other
year that just bomb, they just flame out.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
And I brought this up before.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
If I'm in Chicago, I'm still a little bit nervous
about Caleb Williams based off his first year. So but
I will say this with you too. I admire what
you just said. Your position is very different from I
would say ninety five percent of opinions out there about
if you don't love a quarterback, don't pick them, and

(23:58):
just address the other positions. Most people won't take that position.
So I admire the fact that you're that you're you're
taking a position that most people would not take. I
always like the people that will sort of take the
contrarian views, and you're taking a very contrarian view there.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
So I I am a free thinker.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
I have my own thoughts and I have my own
style of how I would do things, which is heavily
predicated on what I learned from Dave T.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Thomas, who kind of knew what he was doing, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
I mean, if we really take a step back, I mean,
the guy was a monster at scouting and building teams,
and he had the ear of everybody back in his day,
from the Al Davises to the Bill Belichicks and the
Parcels and everybody in between. So yeah, it's I always

(24:50):
try to stray away from the narratives that everybody else
is pushing, which is where I come up with all
these kokamane ideas of what what if it's not Ward,
not Sanders, not Hunter, not Carter, than what you know,
because nobody's thinking about that.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
But right we can, we've drilled down. I didn't want
to talk much.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
About these guys in here who we are, so we'll
we'll move on from quarterback.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
But it impacts the entire draft for the Giants, does
I mean it does?

Speaker 2 (25:22):
So there's no way to talk.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
About the Giants draft without addressing that third round, that
number three overall pick, because that influences because what they
do at three is probably gonna it's going to impact
what they do at two, in the second round, in
the third round, in the fourth round, because that's gonna
that's gonna impact everything. So if they could have dual
Carter at with the third overall pick, you're looking at different,

(25:46):
different direction possibly in the second round.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
So and the same thing with quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
So where I'm at right now, which is this is
also super controversial and probably like in the No. Five percent,
I would say one percent, you could have Cam more Shader, Sanders,
Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter are available to me at three,
and I would still trade down.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Well, I think some fans have done, have considered to
do that, and if you can trade down, I think
especially And this is this, This is not the immediate
gratification that fans normally want, but if some team really
wants one of those players and throws in a first
round pick for next year, you've got to consider it.
So I did my first You were before you and

(26:29):
I started. You were talking about you were doing mock drafts.
And I did my first online mock draft yesterday and
I had teams offering me number one pick in twenty
twenty six. And so the immediate gratification part of me
was like, but I want the play or not player
or not. But then I'm thinking, man, if we can
get that extra first round pick, and then we have

(26:51):
probably what's going to be a relatively high pick for
the Giants next year, then then if you do fall
in love with a quarterback, you can maneuver to get
that quarterback because you'll have two, possibly two high first
round picks, but at least one high first round pick,
and you could maneuver to get that guy. So and
then this draft, and you're the expert on this, we

(27:12):
can talk about this. This draft seems to me that
there doesn't seem to meal a big separation and talent
after you get passed maybe the first few guys. It
seems like a lot of the guys that are in
the available in the teens and twenties are the same
kinds of people that you might be looking at in
the early in the second round. So it seems like
they all seem to be And tell me if I'm wrong,

(27:34):
But when I was looking at this, I was I
there are guys that I could see that should have
gone in the first round, could be there when the
Giants pick at thirty four, and vice versa. So I
think this is going to be one of those drafts
where teams almost pick their favorite flavor and we're gonna
see some crazy picks. I think we're going to see
some guys that people are going to be whoa that

(27:56):
he went way higher than we thought, or way he
went way lower than we thought.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
So depends on if teams are drafting for needs versus BPA,
because if you're drafting for needs, then you need to
figure out how you're going to structure your draft appropriately
based off of positional value and how those positions sort
of fall off throughout the draft.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
So if you're in dire need of.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
This kind of bleeds into you know, one of our
next points here, because we're both big trenches guys, and
we both like offensive line and all that kind of stuff.
So you know, our offensive line, as far as I'm concerned,
everybody's talking about we need interior offensive lineman. Right, fine,

(28:48):
we just signed a bunch of free agent interior offensive lineman.
I'm not sold on John Michael Schmidt's being a bust
like most people are. I think he's gotten an unfair
shake with revolving doors around him and instability through injuries
and all that kind of stuff. But I think offensive

(29:09):
tackle is actually more of a priority than offensive guard
or center, because you've got Andrew Thomas, who has not
been able to remain healthy for quite some time. You've
got Jermaine Aluminor who, as far as I'm concerned, serviceable
better than what we've had the last few years, grant

(29:32):
you that. But he's more of an ideal swing tackle
to me than he is a bona fide starter.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
So if we miss out.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
On one of them through injury this year, worst group
like you, then you're looking at a repeat performance of disaster.
On top of disaster because we have a porous offensive line,
and our offensive line is injured every.

Speaker 4 (29:57):
Single year in recent memory.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
So you know, when you talk about drafting for need
and positional value, offensive tackle is one that really does
fall off pretty substantially if you're looking for like a
day one impact start.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
You know, you notice that too. I noticed that, and
I think that's been a trend in the last few drafts.
I think if you don't get your tackle pretty early,
it seems like the tackles goal, there aren't a lot
of them, and they go they tend to go early.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
I think there there have been years where, you know,
the likes of a Dwan Jones who came out of
Ohio State who opted out of the Senior Bowl after
like a couple of days of practice, where everybody's like,
holy shit, this guy is enormous and he is just
manhandling people. Then he falls for whatever reason in the

(30:45):
third round of the Browns. There are I think late
in day two you can still get some of those folks,
And there have been deeper offensive tackle drafts in recent memory,
as far as I'm concerned, than by comparison to this year.
This year, you your will Campbell who's sort of the
main guy. Whether he can play offensive tackles another question.

(31:06):
But then you got Membo, you got Connorly, you got Ursery,
Josh Simmons Mimbo. And then after that is where you
kind of get into the great territory of how do
you stack rank the other folks like Wyatt milliam from
West Virginia or Anthony Belton from North Carolina, Cam Williams

(31:29):
from Texas, the Ozzi Trapeo from Boston College, like those
guys are more you're hoping for the best, but I
don't think they're making an immediate impact. So if you're
looking at offensive line, is a huge need for everybody
in the league, because there just isn't a ton of

(31:50):
quality offensive line talent in general. But if we're looking
at somebody who can actually come in and help us out,
like if we took Will Campbell, everybody's mocking Will Campbell
to the Patriots one pick after us. You know, if
we took Will Campbell, you tell me that, well, that's
not a huge need for us. But what happens if
Andrew Thomas gets hurt again? You know what happens if

(32:13):
Illumin or get We have no solution on either end.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
The only thing I'll throw out there to keep in mind,
they spent a pretty penny on a backup swing tackle
in the in free agency. So they got James Hudson
for two years is it twelve million? They are actually
paying him more than they paid Jameis Winston. And so
again I don't know if he is. This comes down

(32:39):
to you trust Shane and Dabele and their staff to
evaluate talent. But they got him and the signed Stone
forsythe in free agency sort of both sort of foresight's
playing they both.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Are you really like going into a game, Let's say
Germaine illumin or gets hurt and then you're putting in
James Hudson or Stone forts that you feel good about that.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Eric, What I'm saying you is they're spending twelve million
dollars on it. They better that he better because they
they didn't spend you know, this wasn't a one year
minimum type deal.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
I'm not arguing with you.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
I'm telling you that the Giants, what their free agents
moves tell me is they What that tells me, and
I may be dead wrong, is they're not going to
address tackle in the draft. That's what their free agency
free agent moves. That being said, I would if somebody's
there who can play tackle and tackles usually can play guard,

(33:33):
but at guard center. And that's why we were going
to get into this early.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
Later on.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
You wanted, you know, sort of favorite players. But the
North Dakota State lineman Sables, he can play multiple positions,
So somebody like him would be a good fit for
the Giants because he's insurance.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
I'm not ready to give up with Schmidt's yet, but
if Schmids doesn't work out, some people think Table can
play center. He certainly can play guard, and I believe
he has some experience at tackle too, So I think
you know somebody like that makes makes a lot of sense.
But I agree completely with you about the trenches. The

(34:15):
big the big unknown is Andrew Thomas. If Andrew Thomas
can stay healthy, I'm not as word, I'm not that
worried about tackle, but that's a big if because the
guy hasn't been able to stay hasn't been able to
stay healthy. And then you get into a situation like
you were just talking about. Well, illumin Or ideally would
be your swing tackle, but now maybe you have to

(34:36):
move him back to the left tackle or.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Maybe they think Hudson can handle that.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
So the Hudson's Hudson's a much more important player than
I think we give. We've he we should be talking
about him more. And when I say we, I mean
all Giants fans because Hudson's going to be really important
in this sense. Is he really a decent developing player
because he was still very up and down when he
when he was when he was with Cleveland, but he

(35:00):
was with a very good offensive line coach. They seem
to think think highly of him. And if he can
become that swing guy and then we can focus more
on maybe the guard position.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
And so so.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
I just don't know what they've got in Hudson right now.
They're paying him like they they're paying him like they're
not going to address tackle that That's what that that
move told me. Now there's a tackle staring at them
in the second or third round that's really good, or
one of those guard center guys guard tackle guys that's there,

(35:37):
then I think it you'd be you have to think
strongly about taking When I look at the Giants second
round pick right now, and I shouldn't be doing this,
and you're gonna probably say, Eric, that's not the way
you look at the draft. I'm really because of because
of the talent, the need of the Giants, and who
the guys who I think are going to be there.
I'm almost exclusively looking at offensive linemen and defensive lineman

(36:01):
with that thirty fourth pick because I think there's going
to be somebody there that's wasn't supposed to be there,
either on the offensive line or on the defensive line.
And when I've done these again, I've only played around
with the mocks for a day, but every time I
do a mock that ends up being the case. So
there's a bunch of mock draft simulators and everyone I've

(36:21):
run there's one of those guys there that I'm like,
oh man, he's there, and I'm like, I'm getting this guy.
You know, I want that guy. He wasn't supposed to
be there, and he'll help us on the defensive line.
That will help us on the offensive line. And some
of them are our guard tackle players. So I agree
with you, but I think the Giants also think that

(36:41):
they handle the swing tackle issue in free agency. I
know what by the tony of your voice, I know
you don't think they've done that.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
We'll see what My issue, Like, twelve million dollars for
an offensive lineman is not premiere money to me, right,
Like if you look, yeah, I get where you're coming from. Like,
it's still a substantial enough investment that it would negate
a dire need at the position going into the draft.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
My issue is that we've.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Been doing the bubblegum duct tape on the offensive line
with these low, mid priced free agent signings and it's
been a revolving door for as long as I can remember.
They come in for a couple of years, we do
the same thing.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
Oh man, James, let's give him a shot. He's gonna
turn it around, like he's gonna all of a sudden
have an epiphany in his career. Is gonna be fantastic.
Never happens, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
So that's where last year where we didn't take a
single offensive or defensive lineman in the draft, and then
we run into the issue of Andrew Thomas gets hurt. Right,
but we had you know, iluminum, We signed a couple
of guys like we should be fine. It's that same
old song and dance all over again. And until we
get to a point of realizing that we need substantial

(38:04):
quality depth on our offensive line, it's not going to
be fixed. I in my perfect world, I've got two
to three back backup offensive lineman that could be starters
on other teams.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
And it's not even a question, right, Oh, sure that'd
be that'd be fantastic, But we have to make the
investment to do it, and we continually ignore it.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
So that's well, I just want to throw this out there.
It's not that's not totally accurate the problem. I know
we've made the guys that haven't panned out. So if
we wouldn't be having this conversation if Evan Neil wasn't
a bus today, or or josh A Zudu wasn't a
bus today, and if Schmids was kicking butt. So I

(38:50):
think I should always draft an offensive lineman every year,
So you don't have to sell me on that.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
No, I know.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Part of the problem is is this team hasn't been
able to mean this regime has been able to draft
offensive lineman. Now I had It's funny. I had this
conversation with my wife this morning when we were talking
about the draft. I know I was boring her about
draft stuff, but I had to explain to her Evan
Neil and how he at the The expectation was that

(39:19):
he would never be as bad as he has been.
I mean, I don't think anyone thought that Evan Neil
would turn out the way he did. At worst, you
thought he would be maybe an average NFL starter at
right tackle. That was going to be sort of like, man,
if you screwed up that pick, he would be just
an average starter. But he's not even that. So that

(39:40):
the Evan Neil pick is just mind boggling to me,
because she asked me, well, why didn't he work out?

Speaker 4 (39:45):
And I'm like, you know what, I don't know. I said,
he's a great kid.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
You know, everyone points to that comment he made about
the flipping Hamburgers, but he's a good kid from a
good family. He's huge, he is an athlete. He might
not have the perfect feet that you want from him,
but he's not. You know, we've had offensive tackles in
Giants' history that that were less athletic than Evan Neil.
I don't get it, but that pick networking out for

(40:10):
us been has been a disaster. Now if he can
redeem himself at guard, Like if he could become like
a really good right guard for us, that changes this
offensive line too. So I'm not counting on that.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
We're hoping on a prayer, Yeah, which is how I
feel about the free agents.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
And where on that.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
On this topic of well, we've invested the picks and
we've missed. Well, guess what we need to own up
to the fact that we've missed on those picks. And
if we suck at drafting offensive linemen so much, maybe
we shouldn't just draft one offensive linean a year. Maybe
we need to draft three offensive linemen a year until
we figure it the fuck out, because that it just

(40:52):
doesn't make sense to me. Like last year offensive line
was not strong. We didn't take a single one of them,
and then we're going to go into this year and
my assumption is we ignore tackle. We take one, maybe
two interior linemen. Maybe you get somebody who's guard tackle hybrid,
and then a center guard hybrid. I think if you

(41:14):
polled Giants fans, that would be sort of the ideal
scenario if we were to come away with something like that, right,
But still, man, you look at what we've got behind
our starters, which I'm not sold on again, Illumin or
GVR all these guys you got stone Forth Site, James Hudson,

(41:36):
Aaron Stenny, Austin shot shopman, Jake Coubis, Like, none of
those people give me any sort of confidence that we're
going to be able to end another ode to Dave
t On building from the trenches and then out.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
You want to take.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
A quarterback at three overall that with an offensive line
like that, I mean, that just doesn't make any sense
to me, because then what Andrew Thomas gets hurt again?
We have no solution. We don't continue to invest in
the offensive line through the draft.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
You get your.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Quarterback, Mr Perfect, Wow, good, we're back to purgatory again.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
You know.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
And you don't want Russell Wilson, who's five to eleven
getting rushed up the middle, pressure immediately up the middle,
or that you thought it was bad in Pittsburgh with
him running around and taking sacks last year.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Wait till you know so, I'm not as.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
Down on the line. If everyone's healthy, can they get better?

Speaker 4 (42:35):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (42:36):
I think they did help themselves as long. This is
a big if, and I know this is where you're
you're already thinking this isn't going to work out if
Hudson and Forsyth or Forsyth can provide any kind Last
year where it got in trouble was this Thomas went
down early and their immediate reaction was to put josh
Azu to a left tackle again, which again was a disaster,

(42:58):
and that caused him to move Luminar out there. So
their their inability to for multiple years not to come
to the conclusion that josh a Zudu cannot play left
tackle in the league is a little bit disheartening, and
that goes across a couple of coaching staffs. Now offensive
line coaching, I should say so. But now, at least

(43:20):
the signing seemed to be an admission that, you know what,
josh Zudu can't play left tackle, and maybe Evan Neil
can't play right tackle, and we're gonna give us a
little bit of veteran presence and a little bit of
a competency level that those other two guys simply couldn't
couldn't provide. But if Andrew Thomas stays healthy, Runyon's healthy

(43:44):
Schmidts is healthy, right guards the position I really would
like to see them address. And again it could be
a guard tackle combo kind of guy again, and like
you said, a luminar, he's not bad. You can do
better than that, but he's not He's not bad. One
of the problems with Giants fans now is we've been
so used to horrific offensive line play that when a

(44:05):
guy just isn't bad, we we we tend to over
over appreciate his ability. He may not be as good
as we think he is. We're just so used to
the guy, the person being there, being really really terrible.
So so that Jason.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
This is this is where I'm at is Yes, how
long are we going to continue to stick in that
rut until we get Look, you can't tell me with
a straight face that going into last year we had
any sort going into last draft, we had any sort
of confidence in a Zudu Neil, Like, yeah, they want

(44:45):
they need to like play that out a little bit
more because they spent the draft capital. But they had
to know, ship man, these guys are not that great,
you know, like this is probably going to be an issue.
Leave out the fact that Marcus McKeithen was right such
a waste, you know, but uh, there there have been
so many misses. My point is. We've got to hold

(45:07):
ourselves accountable to that, and we need to try to
fix it sooner rather than later. And if it requires
a huge consistent investment in draft capital a year over
year until we get it right. Wouldn't it be lovely
to have offensive line as a strength on.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
This It makes everything better.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
When was the last time that happened?

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Yeah, it's been a long time it's been. And even
the last even the last Super Bowl team, the offensive
line was falling apart on so I would say I
would say it was like the two thousand and eight
Giants that was that were running over every everybody. Again
we have the three headed monster running back that would
be And you know what what's funny about this, ironic
about this is the addition to the coach the scouting

(45:51):
staff last year was Chris Snee to just scout offensive
lineman and.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Then then they don't.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Offensive linement. So I would be shocked if they don't
draft offensive line in this draft.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
I will be shocked.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
I miss the days when teams had twelve rounds and
you knew you would at least get two offensive linemen.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
But we were given the number.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
Of picks we have.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
I think We're going to at least draft one, probably
two offensive linemen in this draft, and possibly as high
as the second round, which is almost the first round pick.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
So I'm pretty confident.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
To me again, I'm eyeing offensive line or defensive line
with that second overall pick. Unless they do what I
know you don't want to do and they get one
of those other quarterbacks at that spot, that might be
where they say not only draft a quarterback, though they
could trade back up into the first round.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
And waste more picks. Yep. I could do that, though,
want to do that.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
I know, I know it goes against everything that I
stand for, but it doesn't mean that it's not going
to happen or that it's not a prominent thought in
most fans' mind.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
So that is all.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Well.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Good.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Look, if if I've learned anything over the last decade,
it's the Giants don't give a shit what I want
them to do.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
So yeah, that's the thing. If they draft somebody like
some fans are really advocating, and if it works out,
it would be great if if Jalen Milroll ends up
being another Lamar Jackson and the Giants get him and
he ends up being that guy then that's a that's
a home run, Grand Slam home run. However, the likelihood

(47:31):
of that happening is not good. And if you do,
say take him at the top of the second round,
and you miss out on that offensive lineman or you
miss out on the defensive lineman there, then again it's
like we were talking about before with the opportunity cost then,
because that's that's a really sweet spot. I love the
fact that we're picking at thirty four. To me, as

(47:51):
excited as I am about three, I'm more excited about
that pick at at thirty four because that's I have
always been. To me, the second round has always been
the sweet spot. I mean, that's where we got Michael
Strahan and you have justin tucking the third round and
good teams get really I mean, the first round should
be easy. It's the second, third, fourth, fifth round. To me,

(48:12):
that's where you make you win or lose a draft,
and that's the second round pick is huge.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Let me play mock draft simulator algorithm for you real quick.
So you're sitting here, the Giants are sitting there at
the top of the second round. Naturally, the top of
the second round, somebody from the.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
First round that everybody had.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Pegg is a first rounder, is sitting there right in
your lap at the top of the second round, guarantee
that it's going to happen, right, happens every year.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
I'm sure it's going to happen. I'm pive.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Somebody picks up the phone and they go, hey, Eric,
we want to come up and like say you got Milrow,
like you got Gray's Abel, you got pick your defensive lineman,
Kenneth Grant, whoever, Walter Nolan, anybody you want. Is sitting
there and somebody calls you and says, hey, I'll give

(49:02):
you my second. I have another second. I'll give you
a third. I'll give you a second and a third
next year. Like say you come out of it with
four or five additional picks.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yes, I'm doing that.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
I'm trading dow because I think there's actually and it's
funny that you bring that up.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
And again I shouldn't be.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Referencing mock draft simulators, but again it was my I
found one yesterday or found a few of them people
and it was like a new toy for the first
time it's playing.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
And it's funny that you bring this up, because when
my second round pick.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
I had four offers for that second round pick in
the simulator that I was using, and one of them
was really unrealistic, but the other three were, you know,
they they met the value chart kind of thing, and
I thought, yes, you know, I thought, because what I
was also looking at was there on the board. There
were still a number of the players that I thought

(49:57):
would be gone that were still that we're still there.
And I think Shane does operate that way. There was
a draft where he did trade down and they ended
up getting getting you know that they said that the
you don't see the whole thing because they don't show
it on ony of those It wasn't hard knocks, but
they were. They were doing those releasing those draft shows

(50:19):
after the draft, the clips like inside the giant.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Yeah, in the war room or whatever, in the war
room kind of.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Stuff, and they and you could see them going, you know,
these guys will still be on the board. That's the
kind of thing that I was doing. I was like,
you know what, if I dropped down five or six spots,
there's a really good chance that one of those three
guys that I really want is still there.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
It's a gamble. But like you said, you get more swings.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
And in the simulators that I did, if you can
come out with another second or another third, your draft
looks amazing at that point, right when I was doing sorry,
it looks fantastic. Yeah, you're like, because it's like there's
no way you thought you be able to get some
of the players that you got because you didn't think
you would have those picks. So, like, there's a lot

(51:04):
of really good running backs in this draft. You can
get a really really good running back in the third
round in this in this draft, I.

Speaker 4 (51:11):
Think in the fourth and fifth round.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Yeah, and so so those extra picks, and there are
wide receivers every year, like the wide receivers are at
least deep. I mean, I don't think the classes as
good as it was last year, but the way the
draft seem to be lately is that you can still
get good wide receivers later in the draft.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
On the offensive line, it seems like those tackles and
I know you referenced that there are tackles that in
recent years have gone in the third round and stuff,
but I think those there's some positions you you better
get the guy early. Or when we saw that with
the Giants discussion last year at cornerback, they felt like
if they didn't get the corner back in the second round,
they weren't going to be left with too much when

(51:53):
they got into the third round. So I think corner
is one of those positions, and I think tackle is
one of those positions, especially if it's a left tackle
type type.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
You better get out those guys early. But running back, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Don't think that the like tier of offensive linemen that
you're gonna get at call it the end of Day two,
early day three, is that much better than what you
would get later on in Day three. So I don't
think that the position talent value aligns as much in

(52:30):
this draft at that specific position by comparison to later
on in Day three. So I'd rather punt in those
mid round I don't think it's realistic that we're going
to take an offensive lineman super high. It's certainly possible,
you know, on the show last year, I asked every
single one of my guests what's the one position that
we could punt on.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
Everybody said safety. We draft Hyler Nuban in the second round.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
So it's one of those circumstances where never say never
but if we didn't take an offensive lineman until the
seventh round, and we took two offensive linemen in the
seventh round, and then we sign an undrafted free agent
after the fact, like a Jay coubis fine, you know,
like as long as there is some sort of meaningful

(53:13):
investment in that position going forward, great, But I don't
expect that it's actually going to.

Speaker 4 (53:22):
Turn into what if like somebody like Tyler Booker is there.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
I mean, they don't people don't expel, but so Jackson.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Or yeah, look this is this is the problem though,
is like we're just talking about right, I asked you
the question. You immediately say that you would trade down.
But when you're sitting there, it's so hard to get it,
Like it is, say all right, screw it, I'm trading down,
you know, like because you got this and you scouted
him for so long and you know your scouts have

(53:51):
been on the road and you've had so many conversations
in the war, and it's like, wow, if we that
is how I feel like we ended up with Jalen Hyatt,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
It's just like, man, he's still sitting here, like, how
how do we do that?

Speaker 1 (54:02):
But if you can get so many more picks, so
many more swings at the bat that fill so many
other holes in this roster and adds depth, which if
again we're building for the long term, if they have
a longer leash, the people are leading on.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
That they might.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Man, that makes so much more sense to me, But
it's so difficult for people to rationalize in the moment,
you know, so it's going to be difficult. There's definitely
going to be some quality players there that Giants fans
will be living if we do trade down that we're
I mean, first round, second round. People are always going

(54:39):
to be pissed that I can't believe you traded down.
But you saw how successful it was for the Patriots
and Bill Belichick. Where you get more swings, you add
more depth, you have more talent, You hedge your bets,
so to speak, You mitigate your risk, and then it's
easier to resign players, let players walk. You get more
compensatory picks because people leave in a free agency, like,

(55:01):
there's so many back end variables that I don't think
people like truly understand when you talk about moving back
in a massing more draft capital, whether it's this year
or next year. That's another thing that the Patriots used
to do is we trade back and fine, keep your
picks this year, just give me everything next year, you know,
And then in the moment, Giants fans are like, what

(55:22):
the hell are we doing?

Speaker 4 (55:23):
But then next year when it rolls around and we're.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Having this conversation again, and it's like, man, we got
three extra picks from those trade downs last year, Like
holy shit, look at us.

Speaker 4 (55:32):
We're about to wreck it this year, you know.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Like that the patience of it is hard to stomach
at first, but man, if we can get over that hump,
like that's the way you build a real team.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
And that's that's where advanced scouting comes into play too,
because you have to start thinking about next year's draft.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
But and the flip side is nil money now.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
It's crazy, makes it difficult to I mean, antony nil
is kind of taking the fun out of a lot
of this as a fan because you don't know, you
don't know who's coming out now.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
I don't look at it like, Okay, who are the
quarterbacks going to be this year? If I skip quarterback
this year, then who am I going to get next year?
I don't try to strategically plan it like that. I
try to put myself in the best position to have
opportunity next year, and then we see how the dominoes
fall and then we play our hand the way it's

(56:25):
dealt right. But I just want to have more chance,
more capital, more capacity to do things. Like you said,
if you want to trade up or again, trade whatever,
you know. So I'm always an advocate of trading down.
But I think that that second round pick is where
it gets super interesting because there's going to be a

(56:46):
ton of people there that people want to move up
for and that we wouldn't want to trade out of.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Yeah, and and this is historically speaking, in my opinion,
the most sought after pick for trades has always been
the first pick on the second round. It seems like
after the first night's over, teams reassess their boards and
everybody is calling up to that team. The Giants have

(57:12):
the second pick right after that. Ye, I would imagine
they're going to get a lot of calls too.

Speaker 4 (57:18):
So I would.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Assume the Giants are going to probably have three or
four teams at least call them and say we're interested
in trading up, and that they offer. And because there's
other teams involved. The Giants might get a pretty sweet
deal there, so I would assume be shocked if they
trade down. I will not be shocked if they trade up.
I know you don't want to do it. I don't

(57:41):
really want to do it. The only way I do it,
and the only way I trade up is if their
scouting department and Dable and Shane are convinced that the
quarterback that slid is there in the late first round
and they's still there and they want to go be
a Shador Sanders or Jackson Dart or whoever, if they

(58:04):
have conviction on that guy. But like so, I know
you're not crazy about this quarterback class. I'm not crazy
about this quarterback class. But if they have a conviction
on somebody and they think they've got the guy, then
you make that move. But if they don't, then I
don't want them trading up. I want them trading back.
So I think there's a very good chance. Again, I

(58:25):
hate to keep a reference in that simulator, but I
think there's a very good chance to look at the
board and they're going to see there are four or
five people here who we we would really be happy with.
Maybe if we drop down five spots and we pick
up another third rounder or second rounder or something like that,
or like you said, a future pick.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
They'll that would be the route to go.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
So I am a static that you are becoming a
simulator addict like me.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
Well, I just did it for one day, you know.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Yeah, you're dude, you're hooked out. I promise you your
life is never going to be the same. You're going
to be in simulators every year going forward. It is
going to be a rabbit hole you're never going to
climb out of.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
Some of them aren't realistic.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
I try two of them that were just so unrealistic
it was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
You got to you got to keep yourself honest with them, Yeah,
you know, because yeah, there are plenty of times where
I'll do them and then you know, somebody falls down
to me and I'm just like, there's no shot, we're
not going to pick that person because I know that
it's not really I try to keep it as in
the realm of possibility. Granted, then you can get into
the hypotheticals of well, if that person doesn't fall, there's

(59:37):
still going to be somebody better who falls that's not
that person. But you still would probably go you know,
but it's just a fun exercise. The way that I
use simulators is more so in the context of like
our broader conversation here of like various positions. So other
positions that I think are bigger needs than people are
leading on inside linebacker, cornerback, tight end, running back. Right,

(01:00:01):
So if you look at the draft overall and we
figure out, okay, like what are the biggest the strongest positions, right,
defensive line and running back, unanimously, everybody says like, those
are the deepest positions in this year.

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
Right, So if those are the deepest.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Positions, why allocate high round capital for them when you
can still get quality picks later on. Right, So then
it's a matter of figuring out, Okay, well, if I'm
going to not go BPA but try to finesse my
needs around the ebbs and flows of the positional value

(01:00:39):
of the draft, how does that look?

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
If I think that tight end is a huge need,
I look at the tight ends in this draft, and
there's really like three guys that I'm super interested in.
It's Tyler Warren, which they're not going to take it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
Three. I get that, even though I would certainly consider it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
They would have to trade down a little bit in
round one to get them.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
Probably not going to do that either, But but what
I would be open to that I would yet know.
I think that somebody.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Offers me a number one next year and I can
trade Dall instead at Tyler Warren, I'm doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I don't everybody's focused on the round one next year
type thing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
I don't say, say a two or three.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
That's where I'm at is, even if you give me
more twos and threes, I would rather more twos and
threes than the one potentially because again it's more swings
of assuming that it calculates appropriately, right, But I don't
need the additional one, and depending on how far you're sliding,
like obviously there are a bunch of variables in there.

(01:01:42):
But the other guys that I like at the tight
end position, or Mason Taylor and Elijah Royo. Elijah Royo's
got some injury concerns. I think if all things were
created equal, I would actually put Elijah or Royo probably
a little bit ahead of Mason Taylor. Mason Taylor obviously
it is the blood lines all that kind of stuff,
But men, if we put a tight end in the mix.

(01:02:03):
I mean, when's the last time we had a quality
tight end? And I don't consider Evan Neil a quality
tight end. He was a wide receiver playing tight end.
But you know, you look at that, and then you
got THEO Johnson coming off of a pretty serious injury,
and then there's all these high expectations for him and
is he really going to be able to make a
huge impact as a receiving threat for us? And all that,

(01:02:25):
you're putting him in a dicey scenario. So if you
are going to look at potentially drafting a tight end
and getting somebody that would compete with THEO Johnson potentially
as a starter, you got to do that super early on.
So if you're going to prioritize something like that, then
when you're playing with the simulators, it's like, okay, well
what if I take Tyler Warren in the first round,

(01:02:46):
and then how does it flow? What if I take
Mason Taylor in the second round or Elijah Roy on
the third round? And then how do you like figure
out the additional needs that you might have in the
roster and how they kind of fit. So that's where
I use the simular to try to get out of
the box and figure out more the flow style of
because yeah, I mean you you look at the top

(01:03:08):
of the second round, like you're alluding to, there are
going to be a ton of trench guys, offensive defensive lineman,
definitely defensive lineman. Even if there's a run in the
back half of the first on these guys, there's still
going to be a couple of defensive linemen that you
could definitely justify making the pick there right right, But
if it's the deepest position in the draft, man, let's

(01:03:33):
wait on that, you know, and then address some of
the other higher priority needs where the position isn't as deep.
So that's sort of like the juggle that I have,
but out of sort of the positions that we just
ran through.

Speaker 4 (01:03:47):
Like what do you say.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Before you get to that question, I want to just
piggyback on what you said. So I don't know if
you saw I did post my first draft simulator, first
draft simulation.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Ever, I saw it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
I took your tight end at sixty five. I took
OIOA at sixty five. So that was and that's because
I had an extra pick, and I was like, you
know what, I'm gonna I want to get that. So
it goes exactly hand in hand with what you were
just saying. That's where the simulators. And I think listeners
out there who are saying, why are these guy two
talking about simulators so much? I'd be shocked if teams

(01:04:23):
are not using simulators now because they're so useful to
role play and what might happen and who might be there.
Exactly what Dave's talking about. So when I went through
these a number of times, it's exactly what Dave was
just talking about. Look at the linebackers that were still
there on the board in the third and the fourth round,

(01:04:43):
and you're like, you know what, there's a lot of
talent still there. Maybe I should look at the other positions.

Speaker 4 (01:04:49):
That won't be there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
So, you know, I hate to say it, someday they'll
probably have aigms making doing all this stuff. But the simulator,
I think is a fantastic tool, and I would be
shocked if even the Joe Shanes of the world, when
they're bored, aren't pulling these things out and just playing
with them just to see what you know, it gives you.

(01:05:11):
It's like it's like a war war game. They're like
war games where you can figure out what is your strategy,
strategy or enemy you're going to do, what could other
teams possibly do? And you and I have been falling
the draft long enough and have been Giants fans long
enough to know that there have been times when older
Giants regimes have gotten caught with their pants down because

(01:05:34):
something happened that they didn't expect to happen in front
of them, and they panicked. We've seen that going back
to even George Young does something happened where they weren't
they weren't.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Ready for it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
And this now there's no excuse in this day and
age not that the game plan all this through. So
I think it's great because, like you said, when I
looked at my drafts after I picked up more picks
my drafts, I was so much more happy with my
draft thing going through it. When I didn't make the trades,
I was like so, And but there is a cost
if you lose out on a Travis Hunter or you

(01:06:06):
lose out on a dual Carter, there is a cost there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Well, there's also a pr issue there, right yea, because
for these guys who are theoretically on the hot seat,
you know after the year that we just had. If
you're sitting there and you've got Carter and Hunter available,
or you've got any number of guys available at the
top of the second and then they bypass them to
trade down, fans are going to lose their mind right, right,

(01:06:33):
and you won't know if it.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
Was the right or wrong move for some period of time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
But you are going to deal with the friction of
that between now and mid season when you have some
semblance of understanding if it was worth it or not.
Right Like, you're not going to really see much in
the preseason, but I feel like a lot of times
gms kind of get cold feet about trading down because
of the backlash that they're going to see. Even you know,

(01:07:01):
the preseason, you're just getting hammered by the media pundits
asking you the same thing over and over and over again,
and it's nauseating for them, right So, as much as
it makes sense, and that's why I always try to
speak it into existence, manifest it, if you will.

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
Of like the trade down thing. When you do it,
you love it, but it's so hard to do it
in the moment.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Sure, and but and this is they can't. It's exactly
what you're saying. They can't get away from it. But
the point here isn't really to win the draft, and
we get caught up in there.

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
We all do.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
We want to we want to look at we all
look at the grades after the draft's over. We want
to see did the Giants get an A? Did they
get an A? The point is to win. What comes
after the draft, it's the win the win lost column.
So as long as you I can remember when Detroit's draft,
when they when they that home run draft that they

(01:07:54):
just had, there were a lot of people going, I
don't like what they did.

Speaker 4 (01:07:57):
I don't like taking that small running back in the and.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
I don't like I don't like that and right, no,
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:06):
Look that draft died for them, but that did not
get good grades.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
Some people did, but mostly that was kind of like, geez,
they should have.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Done more with what they had.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
And then on a year later, it's like, man, the
Lions put on a masterclass.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Yes, yes, So it's not winning the draft on draft weekend,
it's winning. It's winning in the NFL. So how do
you win in the NFL. You're a trench guy. I'm
a trench guy. Build the trenches out and it makes
everything easier. We need a quarterback, no doubt we need
the quarterback. But so I like what I like about

(01:08:41):
this draft is I think the Giants can address the
trenches a little bit in this draft. I think they
can do that, and I think they're in a good position.
And like I said at the top of each round,
to get some good players, I would like to get
some more picks in there. So I'm fully on board.
If can maneuver and get down, you know, and get

(01:09:02):
some I would even you know, see, if you know,
they might be in a position where, you know, some
teams will even look to trade down, trade up with
a team just one or two spots because they don't
want to lose up of a player. So even if
the Giants even just trade down a spot and only
pick up like a fifth or fourth rounder, and the
Giants are sure they're not going to lose the guy

(01:09:23):
that they wanted, I would just trade down just to
get get get an extra fourth or fifth rounder. At
some point, you and me both, brother, Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Yeah, Well, so we're on the same page, as we
generally are. The issue is that the Giants are not
on the same page with us on an annual basis,
which results in the continued purgatory that we reside in.
But all right, so then let's stick with the offensive
side of the ball, since I think we both address
the fact that tight end is more of a need

(01:09:52):
than people are kind of leaning into, and you know,
it's something that you're probably gonna have to prioritize day
one or day two if you going to go that route.
But running back is one that you brought up, So
let's dig into that a little bit. We've got Tracy
You had a pretty good rookie year, all things considered.
As a mid round pick, I would say that that
was a hit a little bit of injuries there, which again,

(01:10:14):
when you don't have a fantastic offensive line, you're putting
players in positions to ruin their careers through industry injury.
You got Singletary there, you got Eric Gray that most
people are kind of ready to move on from. So
it makes sense that we would probably take a running
back in a deep class at some point in this draft.

(01:10:37):
How much of a priority is it for you and
what type of running back do you think would compliment
Tracy best in this offense?

Speaker 4 (01:10:47):
Do you?

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
I mean everybody misses the big body guys like the
Brandon Jacobs of the world. But do you want more
of a small, shifty guy like a Darren Sprolls type.
There are a lot of both this year. So how
are you kind of thinking through the running back position.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Is a great question, And first of all, I want
to start off with just saying I'll be pretty shocked
if the Giants don't add a running back.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
And it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
Anything about Tracy, but Tracy is a He's not a
big guy, and you don't want him to carry the
ball twenty five times a game. A lot of this
depends Dave on what kind of team does offensive team?
Does Dable and kaf go on a run? I still
don't know really what they want to be or do

(01:11:31):
I don't know, so so this question is kind of
hard for me to answer. I'm I'm pretty sure they
want if they're going to draft somebody, they want somebody
who they know or they think can catch the ball,
because I think the ability to catch a ball is
important to them at that position. That being said, it's

(01:11:51):
hard to look at this roster and not as a
Giants fan and not say, you know what I'd like
a bigger back, a little more physical back. To compliment Tracy,
not to say that Tracy for his size, Tracy, Tracy
is a tough little dude. I mean, it's not just
the moves and all that, but he he's to me,
he's kind of an amazing story because some guy who
has hardly had that much experience at the position, he's

(01:12:12):
so instinctive at it. He's got to stop fumbling. But
I really like him. But I would love to get
somebody a little more fit.

Speaker 4 (01:12:19):
And that's why.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
And again I shouldn't be focusing on guys like this,
but I like Caleb Johnson, you know, that kind of
style bad. The question is is can he is? How
good are his hands? I don't think they used him
that much, and I'd have to look at the stats,
but I don't think they used him that much.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
You maybe tell me, Yeah, So, I mean Caleb Johnson
I think is more of a ground and pound guy
over two hundred and twenty pounds at Iowa Iowa obviously catch.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
I don't know if he can catch.

Speaker 4 (01:12:48):
You know, it's subjective. Can they catch? Can't they catch?

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Because how they're used in college isn't necessarily for their
skill set. It's just based off of the offense that
they're subjected to, right, and how that coaching staff needs
them to operate in order for them to be a
cohesive unit and win game. So I you know, if
they look okay and the reps that they get there fine,

(01:13:12):
But you can see it through the combine and some
of the All Star games where they try to get
them more reps of those things, so you can get
them in private workouts.

Speaker 4 (01:13:22):
And see how all that kind of shakes out.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
But so Caleb Johnson, for example, is a guy who's
going to go on day two. By sort of all
the lists that I see in terms of rankings and
mocks and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
I have no.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
Interest in investing in a running back on day one
or day two, regardless of the value that falls in
my lap.

Speaker 4 (01:13:45):
But would you consider that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
This doesn't sound like a cop out. It depends where
on day two. So remember we've got two third round picks.
I don't think he's going to make it to the
second third round pick. If he's still hanging around on
the at the top of the third round, I would
consider it depending on who else is there. So again,
when I was doing the mock draft simulations. He was

(01:14:11):
there at one of the picks when I did it,
and I didn't wasn't crazy about the value of the
other guys that was there at that time, and I thought,
you know what, And part of this is, you don't
do this as a scout.

Speaker 4 (01:14:22):
You're more of a scout than I am.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
You don't try to fall in love with the player
too much because it'll cause you to do things and
maybe you shouldn't be doing. I'm with you one hundred percent.
I think this draft is so deep at running back.
I think they're going to be really good running backs
later in the draft. So maybe taking one as high
as three for the New York Giants, given the state
of the roster, doesn't make a lot of sense. But

(01:14:45):
if but he is, he's the only type of back
I would even make that decision. If I was, you
asked me who, what kind of style would you bring up?

Speaker 4 (01:14:54):
Bring in?

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
He's the kind of style of a guy that I
would bring in. The caliber at that high wouldn't go
any higher than I would not draft a running back obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
In round one or round two.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
I would only consider it, start considering it in round three,
and it has to be a really good guy, and
it would have to be who else is.

Speaker 4 (01:15:14):
On the board when I'm picking at that point.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
But I'm pretty confident that I can get a decent
running back in round four and five. It also depends
on how highly do you think of somebody like Caleb Johnson.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Do you think he can be really good in this league?

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
And if so, top of the third round to get
a really good player is worthwhile we have had horrible
history in the third round. We have a terrible round
since justin talking, we.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Were terrible in picking players in the third round.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
The only running back I would be interested in in
the third round would probably be camp Scataboo, and I
don't think that he makes it that far. If he
falls in my lap then yet, I mean, he is
just such a tenacious runner, like shades of I'm on
Bradshaw for speaking in the context of the Giants, where

(01:16:02):
he is just not going down, you know, like you
can see on the tape, this guy loves to play football.

Speaker 4 (01:16:08):
He is a dog.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
And that's great for the locker room. That's great for
the running back room. That's great for the physicality of
the offense when you're trying to help identify an identity
going forward with this team. But based off of what
you're saying around came, if.

Speaker 3 (01:16:28):
He's there in the third round, would you take him?

Speaker 4 (01:16:30):
If he's there, it would be hard for me to
pass him up.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
Yes, Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at too, So
it depends on who's there.

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
And he's the only one for me though.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
Yeah, Like, I'm not big into the Ohio State guys.
I don't think that they'll be there at the top
of the third round. Could be I'm not big into
Caleb Johnson. Like his tapes all right, but I'm not
like super sold on him. The other guy that I like,
who you could probably get at the top of the
fourth that I think is more along the lines of

(01:17:05):
what you're looking for. And I don't know if you've
had a chance to really dig into him too much.
Is Damien Martinez out of Miami?

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
I haven't seen him.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Yeah, oh man, check out Damien Martinez. So Damien Martinez
is sort of the hybrid of what you're looking what
you want Caleb Johnson to be. Damian Martinez can catch
the ball out of the backfield, did it a decent
bit at Miami? Looks good doing it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
Is not a huge guy.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
But definitely bigger than the average running back, so he
can still kind of lower the shoulder where he needs
to be a north south runner. I think that he
is more of a complete package by comparison to the
likes of a Caleb Johnson, and you can get him,
I would assume, more so in that comppic at the
end of the third, which is basically a fourth or

(01:17:54):
the top of the fourth. Yeah, I would definitely encourage
you to check him out. He's one of my favorite
mid round guys. Butshal Touton is a guy who's picked
up a ton of steam out of Virginia Tech. I
don't know if you've checked him out at all, but
he's a guy that like in the inner circles of
the scouting communities that nerd out on all this kind

(01:18:14):
of stuff like I do. He's a name that has
gone from late day three to as early as like
the end of the second round.

Speaker 4 (01:18:23):
He is skyrocketed up draft boards.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Yeah, he's he's an interesting one. Not a huge guy
who's a transfer from North Carolina, A and T like
five nine two oh five kind of range in terms
of you know, his measurables there. I'm not as in
love with him. But one guy, since you're talking running
backs that we know the Giants are looking at because

(01:18:48):
of their local pro day with the Rutgers prospects, this guy,
Kyle Minaji. I don't know if you've looked at him
at all, but.

Speaker 3 (01:18:56):
I saw a bunch of people on BBI this morning.
We're like saying, oh, yeah, he's pretty good.

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
He is man.

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
Yes, I have not looked at the running backs in
detail yet because I don't. I think running back is
a need, but not a main need. And I and
I the way I view them in this draft, and
I'm going to look at them, but the way I
look at them in this draft is there's so many
So my draft guides have started rolling in and there's
so many interesting running backs. I think they're going to drop.

(01:19:22):
So so I'm kind of like you. I'm like, I
think we can get a good one later later in
the thing. But I don't want to start looking at
these guys.

Speaker 4 (01:19:29):
But yeah, no, no, not at all.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
He's definitely an interesting one, local kid obviously coming out
of Rutgers. I worry he is a forceful runner, which
kind of concerns me when they're like that aggressive in
college because of the tread on the tires, you know,
and there's only so much that a body can take.
I mean, you even look at a mob bradch I mean,

(01:19:53):
how many screws and pins And he was a robot
by the time he was done with of his career,
you know. So I love what And that's a cam
Scataboo issue for me too, is this guy is pummeling
people with his run style in college, but is your
body gonna be able to hold up doing that at

(01:20:14):
the NFL level short term and long term? Like long
term is way more of a question. But some other
names that you should probably take a look at if
you want to write.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
These down now.

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
Yeah. So R. J.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Harvey is a guy at a UCF Central Florida that
has been really flying up a lot of draft boards
more unlike the small, shifty kind of side that we're
talking about here. Marcus Yarns is a guy that I
didn't know about until the senior ball. It's coming out
of Delaware, but he gives you, like the real small

(01:20:53):
shifty type of a style, can catch the ball out
of the backfield. Granted, played at Delaware, so like the caliberts,
but he had a pretty good week at the Senior
Bowl down in Mobile, was able to hang with the
big boys. So I do feel like Marcus Yarns. He's
like a seventh round guy. Like we're talking like real
depths at that point. But he's somebody that if you want, again,

(01:21:15):
it's what flavor are you looking for?

Speaker 4 (01:21:17):
Exactly?

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
If you want like a really small, shifty, third down
back that you can just you know, use as a
checkdown when you need five yards, and he's fast enough
that he's gonna make a slow linebacker, a slow defensive
lineman miss in the open field and get you that
first down. Then like, yeah, that's more what you're looking for.

(01:21:40):
Size big into Jaden Blue, who's a running back out
of Texas. He's hyped him up quite a bit. Kind
of a good hybrid tight there. I like this kid,
Raheem Sanders out of South Carolina. He's a little bit
of a bigger body guy. Same with Oli Gordon out
of Oklahoma State. He had a pretty good week out
of the Senior Bowl. So those are a couple of names,

(01:22:02):
and there's a lot more we could run through.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
I find myself gravitating towards the bigger running backs right now,
because I have the subjective bias that I think they've
got the shiftier guy in Tracy and they need to
compliment him. Now that may be wrong. Like you said,
what are they what? What are they kind of what's
their flavor? What do they kind of want to do
on offense?

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
How I would kind of counteract that. I'm with you,
I would love it. I want I mean, I've got
Brandon Jacob's posters all, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
But like.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
At the time time Brandon Jacobs big, I'm just saying
a big and more.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
Fun I want to Brandon Jacobs, Derek Henry as big
as they can get, give them to me. I don't
even care if they're slow. Jerome bettis whatever, you know,
But at that rate, then why aren't they using Motor
Singletary more? You know, because he is sort of that
bigger But I just don't think that fits into the

(01:23:00):
offensive scheme that they want. I assume you look at
the receivers that they've been drafting, small shifty guys. Hell,
I'd love a big body, you know, reincardinated, plexico type
of a thing where we can do teed McMillan of
the world where you can just launch it up to them,
no problem. You know a lot of people are high
on Jaden Higgins out of Iowa State, another big body

(01:23:23):
guy at the wide receiver position, and we can run
through all the receivers. But I just don't think that
that is what they want. I would assume they want
to run a fast paced offense. The fact that they
took a tyrone Tracy, that's more of the flavor, Like
they had the opportunity last year to take a Roma
Dunzay type player over like they like the small, shifty, fast, quick,

(01:23:49):
you know, elusive skill players.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
What they have done to date says you're correct, right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
So that's where I lean into that's probably gonna be
more or what we're gonna see because that is what
they've been going after. So that's where then you start
looking at some of these guys, you know on day
three that are more that small shit. Because look, if
you're tiring out of defense on a drive and then
you can toss in speedster, that's hard to tackle. As

(01:24:19):
a change of pace guy to Tracy, like you beat
him with speed and then more speed and then more speed,
Like that's a decent recipe, you know, like I can
understand the rational behind going that route. So as much
as I want a big body back, I don't think
they end up going there.

Speaker 4 (01:24:35):
But that's where if we were gonna go there. The
one guy that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
I think you could see makes some kind of sense
is Damian Martinez out of Miami because as much as
he's not like the fastest guy in the world's still
still good speed and he's not slow per se. But
I think he's a can do all the things that
we're trying to check the box. But then, you know,

(01:24:59):
do you want somebody who can do everything versus somebody
who could just catches the ball well too? Yep, yeah,
you could throw on his tape. He was a transfer
from Oregon Safe.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
I think they based on everything they've ever done at
running back. You've noticed the size, I've noticed that they
won't only want guys that can catch the football. They
will look at guys that they can throw to. So
it'll be interesting to see what happens because again, these
part of it's a bias, my own personal bias. Part
of it's my bias from being a Giants fan of

(01:25:30):
being used to having teams that emphasize. You remember George
Young that it wasn't just the offensive line. They wanted
bigger players, period, and if they didn't that they weren't
a certain size, they wouldn't even consider them. So as
I was going through the wide receivers, which I probably
shouldn't have done.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
I was saying, too small, too small, too small.

Speaker 4 (01:25:49):
We have that already.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
But based on what you're saying now, you're you're convincing
me again. You know what, they may go that route
again and just double down on quick, smaller guys.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
May I think that that is how they're going to
do it, because then the rationale for them is you
can't stop all of them. Yeah, you know, like and
then if you're not gonna bomb it down the field
and you're going like that's I didn't like the Wandell pick.
I thought it was a reach to take him when
they did. But he was sort of like the beginning

(01:26:22):
of all that right where it's he's somebody who we
can quick in, quick slant, get us the.

Speaker 4 (01:26:30):
Five seven yards whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
If they can go into a spread offense and have
four of those, you can't cover them all.

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
So do you want to run the old run and
shoot not me personally.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
I know, I know, I think that's what they're trying
to do, which is where you start to because I
would much rather I mean, I know Cy is big
on savve On Williams, this big body wide.

Speaker 4 (01:26:57):
Receiver out of TCU, who's.

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
Six for Trey Harris is a guy that people are
kind of up and down on. But like in scouting circles,
man Trey Harris, don't be shocked to see Trey Harris
go top round two at an old miss. Trey Harris
is kind of like Jack Beck in the sense of
like six one six two, two hundred and five, two

(01:27:22):
hundred and ten pounds whatever possession receiver. But you know,
all the hype the Jackson Dark gets Trey Harris build
him out of a lot of crazy throws if you
go back and look at the tape, you know, So
I think, do.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
You think the chances are gonna look at wide receiver?
I think they'll come.

Speaker 3 (01:27:39):
I think they'll get at least one wide receiver when
if you had to guess, I don't think they're gonna
do it in early.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
I don't think we're going to take a wide receiver
at all at all. You don't well you you talk
about the pushback on continuing to invest in a position
you've already invested in, which is our problem in the
offensive line. I would counteract by saying, well, we've done
that at wide receiver quite a bit, you know, Like,

(01:28:06):
so what gives you got all these guys on the
rookie contract?

Speaker 4 (01:28:11):
Still you just re signed Darius Slayton.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
Again, You're allocating draft capital in a room where where
are you getting good use out of that player? You know,
like you draft a rookie quarterback, you got Russell Wilson
and Jameis Winston in there.

Speaker 4 (01:28:27):
Will, how much use are you getting out of that
quarterback in year one?

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
Not that much unless you take a Tech McMillan or
an a Mecca Abuka in the first round through like
a trade down scenario. You're not going to utilize whatever
wide receiver you draft a Ton in year one. So
I don't see they bought.

Speaker 3 (01:28:50):
And I'm again playing Devil's advocate. And I've been a
fan of I've been one of them. I shouldn't say fan,
I've been one of the ones saying do not give
up on him yet. J Hyatt has not developed like
I expected him to develop. Now, If he's going to
do it, he's going to do it with Russell Wilson
at quarterback, right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
I think that's why they bring in these guys that
can lob bombs, right, so that you can get somebody
like Jalen Hyatt more involved, because he is obviously frustrated
vocal about his frustrations, which understandable. Again, but you know
a lot of people had him pegged that year is
going late first round. He drops to the third, so

(01:29:29):
there's more underneath the hood there. Then people want to
give credit to.

Speaker 4 (01:29:33):
You know, if he.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
Can't do it with Jamis or Russell, he's not going
to do it with anyone because those guys are too deep.
But if he so if, it's kind of like the
Evan Neil thing. So, if Jalen Hyatt becomes a good
player this year for them, the wide receiver room looks
a lot different. If Evan Neil becomes a good guard

(01:29:56):
for the Giants, the offensive line looks a lot different.
So to me, Jalen hi it's a much more important
player than if the Giants have still are high on him.
I agree with you, they may not even draft a
wide receiver, but if they they're not if they're done
with Jalen, they I wouldn't be shocked to see them
maybe as high as.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
For the fourth round.

Speaker 3 (01:30:18):
Maybe I wouldn't do I'm not saying I'm arguing for it.
I'm just saying I could see them going wide receiver
at some point in this draft too.

Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
The trenches, like.

Speaker 1 (01:30:28):
You said, But if I were going to go after
a wide receiver, it would be more of a big
body guy to diversify my portfolio at that position. And
I would be looking at Isaac Tesla. I don't know
how you actually pronounced his last name. I just say
Tesla at Arkansas six or four guy, I'd be looking

(01:30:52):
at a.

Speaker 2 (01:30:54):
Six four wide receiver on this team.

Speaker 4 (01:30:55):
Would be great and heat dude, you go.

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
I don't know if you watch any of his tape,
but fantastic All Star circuit out of him. You know,
does everything right fast, faster than you'd anticipate.

Speaker 4 (01:31:10):
Go put on his tape.

Speaker 1 (01:31:12):
You will be really impressed by what you see out
of him. The guys like a Dante Thornton junior out
of Tennessee six foot five, and Andrew Armstrong who's also
at Arkansas.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
I have Thornton. I had circle Thornton.

Speaker 4 (01:31:29):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
Yeah, So like those kinds of folks are more what
I would be after.

Speaker 4 (01:31:38):
If we're talking.

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
About a late day three investment in a wide receiver,
just to shake the room up a little bit or
head your bet on, well, what if it doesn't work
out for Jalen Hyatt, Because if you invest high in
a wide receiver, then you're pretty much given Jalen Hyatt

(01:32:00):
the Eli manning double birds real quick and telling him, buddy,
we're kind of done with you, like you might be
a will fuller rotational guy that when we just want
to send you on a go route, we will, But
we got other plans, you know, which they haven't done
that in other positions that are in a similar area

(01:32:20):
of potential future need, so I don't think they'll do that.
But that's where it's like, all right, let's go for
more of like a late round guy that could be
a developmental prospect that brings something different to the table
that we could use in the red zone if we
need it. It's just like a jump ball specialist. And
then if Hyatt doesn't work out and we strike on

(01:32:41):
this kid, then great, you know, like maybe it's not
as much of a need next year. But I wouldn't
prioritize wide receiver early on at all this draft.

Speaker 4 (01:32:52):
Right, but we might have one in Travis Hunter.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
So we'll see what We'll see that happens there.

Speaker 4 (01:32:59):
So yeah, I mean I would, Yeah, let's not go.

Speaker 3 (01:33:03):
I mean that that's a very real possibility they're going
to Hunter. And so that makes again, that makes the
we said I said earlier, what they do at three
changes changes a lot of because if you draft Hunter,
you're not drafting another wide receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:33:20):
And I'm I'm convincing myself that we're not going to.

Speaker 4 (01:33:26):
Take Travis Hunter. Oh really, yeah, No.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
I I agree with you. There's a I just don't
want to believe it, you know what I mean? So
I lie to myself again. This is where on draft
night then I'm always pissed off because I'm like, son
of a bitch. They did what people expected them to do,
you know, but it's not what I wanted to do.

Speaker 3 (01:33:49):
Said today, the Giants love him so that he isn't Again,
he wasn't saying they're going to take him, but he
was saying the Giants here.

Speaker 1 (01:33:58):
Look, he makes it ton of sense. And this is
the issue with that becomes my issue with Jayden Daniels
last year. I am concerned about injuries long term. Travis
Hunter does not have a big frame, and whether you
play him at wide receiver or you play him at cornerback,

(01:34:20):
probably even more so at cornerback, I am concerned about
durability and when you know exactly man, the chicken legs
is like I this is where I'm Like I said before,
you could line up all four of the top guys
that everybody's talking about for the Giants, and I don't
want any of them.

Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
Abdul Carter with the foot injury scares the shit out
of me. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:34:40):
Tyree Wilson was another one with the same issue, and
he hasn't materially developed into what they were hoping that
he would develop into. And he was a sure thing
blue chip prospect, you know what I mean, Like, I
don't understand the rationale on taking somebody who has issues,
you know that, Like that just scares the crap out

(01:35:02):
of me.

Speaker 4 (01:35:02):
Like Tyler Warren, uh no issues, you know, like just through.

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
And through, Like that's a blue chip prospect to me,
but nobody your.

Speaker 3 (01:35:10):
Your perfect scenario is a trade down and get getting
Warren and getting getting some second and third rounders.

Speaker 4 (01:35:17):
Is Warren or the other guy that I would really.

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
Be thrilled with who they kind of contradicts what I'm saying,
is uh, Jehad Campbell, the linebacker from Alabama, Which it's
a shoulder injury. It's not like he's a quarterback, so
shoulder is whatever. Like my my concern with like the
pulse and the debos of the world that we signed
great young talent at a Stanford smart kid shattered his leg,

(01:35:44):
you know, like.

Speaker 4 (01:35:46):
I mean you snap femur.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
Yeah, Like as far as I'm concerned, when you're a
cornerback and you backpedal for a living, you kind of
need your legs, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:35:57):
Uh, call me crazy, but that you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:36:02):
Like if he broke his wrist, I don't care he's
not catching the ball. But when you have to rely
on where the injury is, Abdul Carter needs to rely
on his foot, you know what I mean. Jahad Campbell
doesn't need to rely on his shoulder. His shoulder could
be mush as long as he hits whatever. You know,
Like I don't care about his shoulder, but he's a

(01:36:23):
guy that I would love to trade down for Yeah,
my ideal scenario is some sort of a trade down
because I don't love any of these quote unquote top
prospect blue chip prospects in the top five that everybody's
so infatuated with. All right, so then I know we're
going along here, but yeah, let's keep going so on

(01:36:46):
the defensive side of the ball, kind of what we're
alluding to here. Inside linebacker and cornerback.

Speaker 4 (01:36:52):
Are two areas that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
I think need more attention than people are willing to
give credit to.

Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
You know, unless you draft Hunter, if you're gonna play
him at corner or wide receiver, you can't play him
both ways.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
And then you talk about durability concerns and then you're
gonna play the guy both ways. I'm I know, I know,
but I.

Speaker 4 (01:37:18):
Don't see how people don't look. You know, it's easy to.

Speaker 1 (01:37:23):
Fall in love with a prospect, right, Oh, man, Travis
Hunter would be great in year one? Okay, what about
year six? You know, is he's is the ROI gonna
be consistent and trending upwards? Or is he going to
get hurt? Is he going to risk injury somewhere because

(01:37:45):
you're playing them both ways? Oh, it's on a limited
basis at one position to the other. Still, man, Like,
that's the allure of this guy? He did you talk
about tread on the tires? You got this guy playing
both ways throughout college? I mean, in what world does
that make sense?

Speaker 4 (01:38:02):
Like? I just don't see it.

Speaker 3 (01:38:04):
The risk here again, I defer to people like you
and Dave Cyberson's and the people that live and breathe
this stuff. The danger for people like me and other people.
The more cagile fan is getting caught up in the
hype people, so you don't think about the things that

(01:38:25):
you're thinking about right now. But you you know, everyone
says all's you know, and that it comes as sort
of like a self fulfilling prophecy.

Speaker 2 (01:38:32):
You're like, you're you're all into it, and then you're like.

Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
Wait, why didn't Ron Daane pan out? He was supposed
to be so good?

Speaker 4 (01:38:40):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:38:40):
Why did Derek Brown not turn out at tight end?
So there's always a danger you that you kind of
get you feed into the hype. And there was a
cornerback that the Commanders took a few years ago that
was so damn skinny.

Speaker 4 (01:38:54):
I can't think of his name right now, but he
was built like a toothpick.

Speaker 3 (01:38:57):
Really tall, very narrowly took him in the first round,
and there was a big debate on BBI where the Giants.
It was the same draft that we took Deontay Banks,
the life of that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:10):
But his legs were very reminiscent to me of of Hunters.

Speaker 3 (01:39:17):
Hunters got when I look at watch Hunt film a Hunter,
and one thing I would say about Hunter is this,
And I don't know if you agree or not, but man,
the guy's got ball skills. He there are there are
contested catches both on defense and offense where I'm like,
there is no way he's coming down with that ball,
and he does. And so I can see the you know,
the the athleticism, the ball skills, the the the the

(01:39:41):
attraction that he can play both those positions.

Speaker 4 (01:39:43):
I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:39:44):
I'm I still have a little but I also still
remember the draft where everybody said Isaiah Simmons was one
of the safest picks in the draft because he can
do so much and if he doesn't pan out one position,
he will pan out at the other, so don't worry
about it. And has Isaiah Simmons did not pan.

Speaker 1 (01:40:01):
Out, So I was a big Isaiah Simmons guy, and
that taught me a huge lesson. And this is one
of the reasons I'm so apprehensive about Travis Hunter. And
the guy you were referencing is Mike Santistro, by the way,
the guy who the Commanders took out of Michigan five
to nine buck eighty.

Speaker 3 (01:40:24):
No, it's not the guy. That's not the guy and
might have the draft wrong. The guy I'm thinking was
like six' two and he was built like a. Toothpick
well you're, Talking i'll see IF i can find, It, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:40:32):
Yeah, yeah, sure so, YEAH i MEAN i that this
is the other problem With Travis hunter is, yeah you
put on his, tape there's NO i, mean the guy
won The, heisman you, know, Like i'm not debating the
fact that he is an incredible athlete and that he
would be a high impact player FOR us year, one year,
two year, three even what about after? THAT i am

(01:40:56):
looking WHEN i look at investing draft capital and, players
it is not just for a rookie. Contract AND i
feel like a lot of passive fans just get caught
up in the immediate impact that the player is going to,
Have but then you end up in The Ron dayes
situations of the world where you're, Like, okay well that didn't.

(01:41:18):
Work now we're kind of, screwed you, know and you
just dig these holes at all these. Positions And i'm
trying to build a. DYNASTY i mean that's the name
of the, game right you want to be The, chiefs
you want to be The. Patriots, like you're not going
to be able to do that when you invest in
players that fall off fairly. QUICKLY i, mean you, know

(01:41:39):
like The chiefs have been able to do it with some.
Positions like you, Know pacheco is a good example in
the realm Of Kansas, city right comes, out lights it
up first couple of, years and then all of a,
sudden deals with, injuries completely falls, apart and now he's
basically irrelevant in their. Offense you, Know like that is

(01:42:01):
one of my Primary LIKE i think That Travis, hunter
IF i were fitting him into The, GIANTS i would
want to play him at.

Speaker 4 (01:42:09):
Cornerback if you.

Speaker 1 (01:42:11):
Could jack up His madden rating where he's never gonna
get hurt and all those sorts of, THINGS i would
Plug Travis hunter in as a cornerback and let it,
rock BECAUSE i think cornerback is a bigger need for
us than wide. Receiver AND i like the fact that
he has the offensive mind coming from.

Speaker 4 (01:42:30):
Being a wide.

Speaker 1 (01:42:31):
Receiver AND i believe he was a former quarterback at
some point in his football. Days Maybe i'm wrong on,
that BUT i like him as A you put on
his cornerback film and it's, Like, dude this guy anticipates, routes, understands,
timing reads, quarterbacks eyes, like, jumps everything.

Speaker 4 (01:42:50):
Fantastic, AGAIN i.

Speaker 1 (01:42:52):
Don't think he's going to make it at that position long.
Term he's not going to help him run support because
he's not that. Big so then that's WHERE i flip
more with sigh. On, okay If i'm gonna Take, Hunter
i'd rather play him at wide receiver because he's maybe
less likely to get injured there outside of the turf
gods of, MetLife you, know massacring one of his knees

(01:43:17):
like they love to do to. Us but you, KNOW
i JUST i don't like the prospect of a dual threat,
player a small, player like as a long TERM roi
of the draft.

Speaker 3 (01:43:34):
Capital, well and when we first started doing the, Podcast
john AND i On INSIDE bbi and we were talking About,
hunter we were a little bit more down on him
in the beginning because of the size. Issue, yeah BUT
i think we've gotten infected by that hype machine THAT
i was.

Speaker 4 (01:43:53):
Taught the media drives everybody. Up.

Speaker 3 (01:43:55):
Man the thing that stood out to us he he
AND i were both sort of, like you know, what
he's take a taking a small corner at that pick. Third,
OVERALL i, mean you better Be dion, good you, know
if you're gonna do, that because And diana was a bigger.
Player by the way it. Was Emmanuel forbes was. Right

(01:44:19):
the commanders already cut. Him, yeah but he was to
me he was built like a.

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
Toothpick he was like one hundred and sixty pounds when
he came, out and he wasn't as tall AS i.

Speaker 3 (01:44:29):
Thought he was six, foot but he looked taller than
he than he was listed because he was so. Thin
he just, looked you, know he was again another guy
with ball. Skills but again he's been. Weighed he's the
twenty twenty three. Draft they already cut, him.

Speaker 4 (01:44:41):
So and this is what we're.

Speaker 1 (01:44:43):
AGAIN i get that the casual fan doesn't think through
these things as, much and it's easy to just buy
into the hype that the media puts in there and
you put on the tape and you're, Like, wow this
guy's A heisman winner Like Ron. Daane you, know he's he's.
Incredible we could use him in so many. Ways like you,
know one of the Things Dave t always told me
is like scouting isn't about identifying what prospects can do.

(01:45:06):
Wrong it's a matter of identifying what they do right
and well and figuring out if you can exploit that
on a regular basis to help your football. Team so,
yes you could do that With Travis. Hunter but durability
is such a big variable to me THAT i like

(01:45:26):
we're talking about. BEFORE i am a big advocate of
metrics from a height and weight, perspective because you, know
if you can't play in THE nfl because you're, tied
like you just the likelihood of you being able to
sustain a CAREER nfl not for. Long it's just it's

(01:45:48):
tough to invest the. Capital as far as.

Speaker 3 (01:45:50):
The moster child for that on The New York jants
right now Is Cordell. Flot So Cordell flot every time
he starts to get a little bit of a rhythm
and start to get he starts to get a little bit.
Better he gets, hurt he cannot stay, hurt and because
he's another guy built like a, toothpick he can't stay
healthy and he gets pushed around and he's not a

(01:46:10):
great tackler because of his. Size, NOW i think he's
the kind of guy that can can play in THE
nfl as a. RESERVE i think he can be a
decent role, player AND i think he's had his, moments
but you can't rely on him because it's what you're,
saying he can't stay, on he can't stay, healthy and
SO i think He's and so that ties in with
what you Were your original question, was is corner a

(01:46:33):
need on this? Team AND i think you have to
come out with at least one corner because insurance against
banks being a continued problem on. Banks will have to
see if he. Rebounds he had a decent rookie. Year
he really fell off the cliff last. Year they bring
in a, debo but as you've, mentioned let's keep our

(01:46:56):
fingers crossed that his leg is all. Right but at
the very, least you want to have another guy out
there for, depth for in case somebody gets hurt and
you want to have somebody as an insurance policy If
banks continues the. Struggle SO i think corner is a
big need on this, team and if you do Take hunter,
Again i'm not getting back into the should we Take?

Speaker 4 (01:47:18):
Hunter but if you Take, hunter that at.

Speaker 3 (01:47:21):
Least addresses that issue, too and it Makes banks expendable
at that point BECAUSE i don't, know Because banks is
not really a slot, guy SO i don't, know you
know what you do WITH i, mean you CAN'T i
would trade him at that point because there's no trade,
value but it might be a nice problem to. Have but,
yes SO i, agree and it's one of the reasons

(01:47:41):
WHY i would Consider hunter there is because of the
need at. Corner so regardless of whether they Take hunter or,
NOT i Think corner is a need on this. Team
AND i think The giants felt that way strongly last.
Year we saw In Hard knocks when they Assume banks
was going to be all, right and they really wanted
to get a corner outside. Corner Now Drew Phillips state's

(01:48:05):
envisioned as a nickel, guy but they wanted to get
another outside.

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
Corner AND i you, know so if you figure if they're, thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:48:11):
Well we got a d, bowl but now we got
to worry About. Banks MY i don't know what's changed
in their. MIND i think that they're thinking they need
to get another.

Speaker 1 (01:48:19):
Corner and then the question, becomes do you need to
invest in a high round corner that could make more
of an immediate impact because like offensive, tackle in my,
eyes if A debo gets hurt, again If banks is a,
bust you, know like.

Speaker 4 (01:48:37):
What are we doing in? Corner?

Speaker 1 (01:48:38):
Man you, know like both of THE A debo could
get hurt again And banks could be a, bust and
then we still don't have any. Corners so, like at
what point do we look at that position and, say,
man we should probably top of the second round there
at thirty, four there's gonna be some solid particularly if
there's a run on like wide, receiver all defensive, line defensive,

(01:49:01):
line like you would expect that there might be there's
going to be a good pocket a. Corner but you
sign A, debo you Drafted, Banks like can you justify
making that?

Speaker 4 (01:49:11):
Pick that will.

Speaker 3 (01:49:13):
Piss off a lot Of giants fans if they did.
That i'm not saying that's What i'm not. Saying but
everybody was Shot nuban last, year, right so In giants
fans minds BECAUSE i run A giants fan. Website minds
they are a little bit tired of investing so much
in the wide receivers in the in the. Secondary they

(01:49:34):
want to invest more in the. Trenches like you AND
i have been. Talking doesn't mean that investing in a
corner is another bad. IDEA i think they're. Getting there's
a frustration level Saying Jesus, christ we've invested in corner
after corner after corner in the first. Round how many
times do we have to keep drafting corners here before
we get?

Speaker 4 (01:49:52):
That get that?

Speaker 3 (01:49:53):
Right so my, guess, though is this is for better or.
Worse they roll the dice And Evan, neil and they
Thought Evan neil was still going to pan out at
right tackle for the last couple of. YEARS i think
they're going to roll the dice and Think banks is
going to work. Out and if they do draft a
corner it's not going to be as high as the
second round unless those AND i don't foresee this, happening

(01:50:16):
unless there is a run on all of.

Speaker 4 (01:50:18):
The defensive linemen and all of the offensive.

Speaker 3 (01:50:20):
Linemen and you, know, again depending what they do at,
three there are still gonna be some there could be
some really good edge rushers there at the top of
the second round. TOO i think edge rushers laid down
later in the draft. Too the simulator taught me that.
TOO i was, Like, damn there's some really good edge
rushers that are going to be there later in this.

Speaker 4 (01:50:40):
Draft So.

Speaker 2 (01:50:43):
I'm on board with.

Speaker 3 (01:50:44):
YOU i think corner is a sneaky need on this,
team and it could be addressed with their.

Speaker 1 (01:50:48):
First, PICK i, think and we could also look to
trade back and then take A Jday, baron you, know.

Speaker 4 (01:50:57):
And some people love him SOMETHING i.

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
LOVE i think he's the best cornerback in the draft
ahead Of Travis. Hunter but, YEAH i mean you you're
gonna have in the second and third, round you're gonna,
have you, know definitely some, options like you even seeing
THE bbi mock draft That Matt GI's running right, now

(01:51:20):
where you Got Maxwell, harriston you Got Chavon, ravel you
Got Benjamin morrison who's got all kinds of injury, concerns
but you put on his tape and he's a super special.
Talent you Got Trey amos out Of mississippi as Right
thomas out Of Florida. State but then once you get
past those guys which are more the second early third round,

(01:51:43):
folks then you fall into The Denzel burkes of the.
World The Darien, porter WHO i mean you talk about
anomaly of an. Athlete that guy is six, three two
hundred pounds running insane numbers. JUMPING i mean he blew
the combine. Up but then if you're looking more on you,

(01:52:07):
know like, fourth, fifth sixth round type of, guys a
guy like out Of South carolina's O'Donnell fortune like six
to one buck eighty five buck, ninety just like a
steady cornerback who can contribute A Zi alexander at AN
lsu against six to one buck ninety like those are

(01:52:28):
more so the folks THAT i assume will end up
going with if we don't make an early. Investment but
it is going to be super compelling to potentially take
somebody early on day two if we don't go The
Travis hunter route on day one or even at the

(01:52:49):
top of the third.

Speaker 3 (01:52:50):
Round, yeah because what you're what you're looking at right
now when you look at the depth, chart so you're
assuming banks and a debo are starting With phillips and the,
nickel but after that you Got cordell, Flat Trey hawkins art.

Speaker 4 (01:53:03):
GREEN i, mean you.

Speaker 3 (01:53:03):
Got, nothing so so it's it's a. Need and you,
know looking at, this it's even worse than you think
less unless you you're okay With cordell flot being a
backup corner.

Speaker 2 (01:53:22):
So so or you're.

Speaker 3 (01:53:24):
Okay the tragedy, here a little bit of a tragedy
here is Is Trey hawkins looked really good in camp
his rookie. Year they threw him out there and he.
Bombed and then last year they finally he finally gets
into a game and he actually played pretty.

Speaker 4 (01:53:40):
WELL i think it was Against dallas he actually.

Speaker 3 (01:53:42):
Played i'd have to go back and see which, game
but the game he, played and he got hurt towards
the end of the game and he was out the
rest of the. Year so, again you cannot count On Trey.
Hawkins but he's he looks the. Part he's, tall he's,
physical he should be a better run player than he,
is but he looks he's an ass a.

Speaker 2 (01:54:00):
Fleet he looks the. Part and it's too bad.

Speaker 3 (01:54:03):
That you, know one of the problems The giants have
had with all the with the the guys they do
have on the, roster and this gets back to what
you talked about earlier is if you're not, available if
you keep getting, hurt you know you're Not you're not,
dependable you can't you can't trust these. Guys And, hawkins
If hawkins was a decent, player we would, say you,
know we don't need a corner or we can take

(01:54:24):
a corner or. Later but looking at the depth chart right,
now well it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:54:29):
Good at what point do we need to start being
proactive rather than, reactive which is my biggest issue in
our drafts because.

Speaker 2 (01:54:38):
We're react, completely, reactive completely every.

Speaker 1 (01:54:40):
Every, year you, Know and that's where it's, Like, okay
let's look ahead at. Cornerback ideally resurgence From Deontay. Banks
he becomes everything we hoped you would. Be Paulson adebo
never gets hurt. Again he lives up to all the
expectations we, have and cornerback isn't a crazy. Need we
can maybe add a developmental guy on day. Three we
can maybe prioritize it next year if we're able to

(01:55:02):
fill some of the additional. Holes what if that doesn't,
happen you, know like we get too caught up into the.
Men let's just really hope for the best here.

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
And when when is the best ever shown up for
us in recent? Memory you know it.

Speaker 1 (01:55:18):
Hasn't so that's WHERE i look at some of these
positions and it's, like, hey you, know maybe this is
more of a priority IN i think you're.

Speaker 3 (01:55:29):
RIGHT i think you're, Right. DAVE i think it's more
of a priority than you actually kind of talk me to.
It but looking at, this my priority is looking at
the number one priority is to me still is finding
a long term solution at, quarterback and THEN i want
to address the. Lines but if you look at if
you're trying to come up with the next, area it's probably, cornerback.

Speaker 1 (01:55:54):
Which most, people the casual fans, say oh we Signed
pauls on THE dbo and we got the ON da. Banks,
Great we're, fine you, know well you just that's Where
AND i know we're coming up on a pretty long run,
here but.

Speaker 3 (01:56:07):
We're gonna and like you, said we're gonna be doing this.
Again we've got to see some material for the next
show was coming, up so one one with our, show
AND i think you said you want me to come
back on.

Speaker 1 (01:56:20):
Too, yeah, yeah, no for, Sure We're i'm gonna be coming.
On uh INSIDE BB i next, week so we'll be.

Speaker 4 (01:56:28):
Wrong, sure that'll be another gallet of a.

Speaker 1 (01:56:29):
SHOW i mean the beautiful thing about the draft IS
i MEAN i could talk about this every day for
hours on.

Speaker 4 (01:56:34):
End, yeah there's no simulator when we're.

Speaker 3 (01:56:37):
Done, Actually i'm going to actually check out some of
the running backs you gave me.

Speaker 4 (01:56:42):
TOO i want to check.

Speaker 3 (01:56:43):
Out not THAT i think running backs again is a huge,
need BUT i think they're going to draft a running.

Speaker 1 (01:56:47):
Back that is one of the other REASONS i really
like simulators is because it gets me looking at different.

Speaker 4 (01:56:53):
Players so based off of WHO i take.

Speaker 1 (01:56:57):
In day, one day, two then When i'm in the
simulator on day three and then it's, like, SHIT i
didn't grab a running, Back, like let me look at
who's available and then do some research on some of
these names and see IF i were in this predicament
in real, life who WOULD i?

Speaker 4 (01:57:13):
Want you?

Speaker 1 (01:57:13):
Know and that helps me to uncover some additional. Folks but,
yeah and.

Speaker 2 (01:57:19):
That's What i've been doing.

Speaker 3 (01:57:20):
Too so WHEN i get into like the fifth and sixth,
Round i'm going online And i'm getting my draft guides
And i'm looking up So i'm. Learning i'm learning more
about these, guys Because i'm, like, WELL i need to
know more about this wide receiver who seems to be
pretty Highly.

Speaker 1 (01:57:36):
Your draft experience will never be the same again you
are hooked.

Speaker 3 (01:57:39):
UP i know it's gonna be a time, suck is
what it's gonna.

Speaker 4 (01:57:42):
Be i'm telling, you, man your wife's gonna hate. You
so find a way to occupy. Time, yeah, right exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:57:50):
Exactly but, yeah and then we'll have you back on
the show the week before the draft as. Well so,
yeah WELL i think we're pretty much like two hours, Already.

Speaker 3 (01:58:00):
Yeah stopping, point AND i want to let your listeners
know that you're coming. On it looks like next, weekend
and then in the week after That i'll be back
on your show and so we can cover the all
the things that we haven't covered. Yet AND i Know
john's going to want to talk to you about a
lot of the stuff that we just cover, too about

(01:58:20):
your CAUSE i think you have a very interesting different
take on how to approach this. Draft that it's an
outside voice that people need to listen. To so, again
everyone does group think and they get start thinking the same.
Way and there are two things with one that's, dangerous
but number Two that's one of the reasons why everybody's
always shocked on draft day when something doesn't, happen and

(01:58:42):
people immediately put it out of their. Minds but every
single year we have people flip out because somebody did
something that wasn't supposed to happen on draft, day and
like and, AGAIN i hate to use the same, example
but like The detroit, EXAMPLE i remember people, going oh my,
god what are they? Doing and look at that draft,
Now so there are different ways to look at the.
Puzzle in the way that you're looking at it is

(01:59:03):
a different way that deserves serious scrutiny and consideration because
there are legitimate concerns with the players that you. Mentioned
there are concerns with Abdual carter with the, injuries there
are concerns with With hunter with you, know is he
AND i always thought this was a really good, question

(01:59:24):
and some people feel strongly about it that that's not an.
Issue but if you put him as only a, corner
how would you rate him in the draft visa the other?
Corners if you put him as only a wide receiver
in this, draft how would you rate him visa vi
the other wide receivers in this? Draft and the one
thing that makes me a little bit nervous about him

(01:59:44):
is on both positions is the. Size, again if you're
drafting a wide receiver at three or you're drafting a
corner at, three you generally don't want to get somebody
who's undersized at that position that's later. On maybe even
a few spots down in the first, ROUND i could see,
it but at three that's awfully. High that being, SAID

(02:00:07):
i think there's a really good chance of trying Straft
hunter and it could work out for, Them So i'm
not against. It, Yeah i've actually mocked that for. Them
that's my latest mock is them taking, him And, i'm you,
know fingers. Crossed that could help them in two different.
Spots but way you're bring the things that you bring
up are things that need to be brought up because

(02:00:27):
it's a very good. Chance like you, said he's not
big enough for this league to survive very long.

Speaker 1 (02:00:32):
Yep and they used a lot of tread on his
tires throughout, college so you, know, YEAH i, MEAN i
try to take a different approach on this show, because like,
you And i'm sure a lot of fans, listening you
want to absorb as much information as you can leading
up to the draft through various, podcasts but everybody talks

(02:00:53):
about the exact same, things AND i Just i'll listen
to it Because i'm a. Lunatic but at the same,
time LIKE i really wish that people would talk about other, shit,
man you, know like it's just how many times can
we have The Abdul Carter Travis hunter debate before you,
know we, say, hey maybe we should look at, this
or maybe we should think about, that whatever the group think.

(02:01:14):
IS i always try to Go devil's advocate of whatever
the group think, is and then it leads me to
all sorts of different opportunities and. Ideas and then WHEN
i reflect on it after the, Fact i'm, like you know,
What Tyler warren actually wouldn't be that crazy at three
as much as everybody thinks that it would. Be, dude

(02:01:35):
if he is a perennial prospect like he's billed to,
be you, know, like is it really that nuts Will
campbell at? Three with the uncertainty around our?

Speaker 4 (02:01:50):
Offense is that really that it's?

Speaker 1 (02:01:52):
Not you, know like just because the group think, is,
well it's got to Be, sanders it's got to Be,
ward or it's got to Be, carter those are your only?

Speaker 4 (02:02:00):
Options like fuck, That it's not my only, option you.

Speaker 1 (02:02:02):
Know, So, YEAH i try to get a little more
creative on this. Show AND i look forward to chatting
with you And, john having you back on talking more
about some out of the box ideas for.

Speaker 3 (02:02:15):
Sure, yeah and and and. Again the back and forth
debate to me is. GOOD i raised it last night
AND i got pushed back on, it and you probably
would have been there with, me IS i, said, now
if we trade down in the first, round we got
to think, about all, right who are you taking at that,
Point and that's WHEN i Mentioned warren at tight? End

(02:02:36):
AND i probably should have mentioned the offensive linement at that,
point because that's that's a really good.

Speaker 4 (02:02:40):
But you, know we we.

Speaker 3 (02:02:43):
You, know we talked about a bunch of players, there
and but when when you mentioned those, names people in
the chat were, like, no, no, no. No and the
other Thing I've i've brought up a number of times
over the last couple of years IS i think a
lot of fans and TEAMS i have underrated the role
the tight end is playing in the modern. Game, now

(02:03:05):
look at the most dynamic offenses now in the. League
they always almost always seem to have a tight end
that you can't cover and.

Speaker 4 (02:03:14):
So and when was the last time we had.

Speaker 3 (02:03:16):
Else or whoever you're talking. About that changes the whole
scope of the. Offense so If warren is that kind
of guy and he changes your offense, completely you could
make the argument he's more important than somebody like Like
Elik neighbors at that point because he changes the way
your entire offense operates at that. Point if you're a
defensive remember we have a quarterback now who doesn't throw

(02:03:38):
over the.

Speaker 2 (02:03:38):
Middle oh In Russell.

Speaker 3 (02:03:40):
Wilson that's the only problem with.

Speaker 1 (02:03:42):
That it, is but from us like preparing perspective and defensive,
coordinator well, No i'm saying, like oh, yeah, no like game, wise,
right If i'm a defensive coordinator AND i see The
giants on my schedule And Tyler warren is in the, mix,
now it's, like, SHIT i gotta Cover Molik neighbors And Tyler.

Speaker 4 (02:04:02):
Warren yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:04:03):
Exactly you, know like that makes it a lot harder
for me by comparison to you, know oh well maybe,
uh Like Abdul carter is there like, whatever you, Know
LIKE i, mean if you Put Travis hunter, there for, example,
again much harder to cover you're having you're spreading out the,
defense which gives you more opportunity for the underneath guys

(02:04:24):
Like wandell or the deep guy Like Jalen hyatt like
a huge which is why it was valuable for us
to take neighbors last.

Speaker 4 (02:04:31):
Year but let's double, down you know WHAT i? Mean,
like why?

Speaker 1 (02:04:33):
Not but instead of doubling down a wide, Receiver, yeah tight?
End when's the last time we had a good tight?

Speaker 3 (02:04:38):
End and look At dallas with the, triplets you know
that that whole thing when they went through their. Heyday
so if you so, again and that's one of the
guys that some people it will pick up their. Ear
SO i will Give giants fans credit for this that
he's one of the guys that if you do tray.
Down i've seen positive reaction From giants fans, saying hell,
YEAH i would take.

Speaker 1 (02:04:59):
Him so and it Helps Leo johnson quite a. Bit
they were teammates At Penn. State it takes a lot
of pressure OFF, theo AND theo is kind of like.

Speaker 4 (02:05:07):
Your number two.

Speaker 1 (02:05:08):
Guy That, wow wouldn't it be amazing if you Had
Tyler warren and then you could.

Speaker 4 (02:05:12):
Sneak Theo johnson where nobody's.

Speaker 1 (02:05:15):
Looking now he's got matchup nightmares every single time he
steps on the. Field, like that's just so much more
dynamic to. Me so, yeah and if you.

Speaker 3 (02:05:24):
Got another second round, pick, yep and maybe future draft, capital.
Yep that looks pretty darn. Good so, Yeah i'd be
excited about. That that would be a draft THAT i would
be excited.

Speaker 4 (02:05:34):
About sor, right well leave it on that. Note.

Speaker 1 (02:05:36):
Yep we will, More, yeah a lot more we're going
to talk about On inside BB i and back here
On Scouts. Honor But, eric thanks for making the, time
and thanks for all of our listeners for hanging around.

Speaker 4 (02:05:49):
For for two hours and hearing. Us but we cover
a lot of good.

Speaker 1 (02:05:52):
Stuff but we'll be back tomorrow With Paul deatino From
giants Dot com and then again in the future with
some of our other. Guests but until next, time we'll
be doing mock draft simulators until our eyes. Bleed so
we'll catch you on the Next scouts on our. Podcast
see you, guys