John Schmeelk Swings Through

The King of the Giants media empire stops by to talk draft. We dive into positions of need and prospects John likes on days 2 and 3. An insightful chat, with an incredible guy, that you won't want to miss. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to another edition of the Scott's Owner Podcast.
We're pleased to be joined today by another first time
guests of the show from inside the building at nineteen
twenty five Giants drive man who's been with the organization
since two thousand and seven as a host, writer, reporter,
and all around football fanatic, Brooklyn's Finest, John Schmelt. John,
Welcome to the show, Pal.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm happy to be here. I am not currently in
the building. I should be clear about that. I'm currently
in my basement about three miles from the facility, so
close enough.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Close enough. Yeah, we're recording this late on Wednesday night.
I mean i'd probably be concerned after the press conference
if you were still in that building.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
So yeah, yeah, I mean it wasn't much of a
press conference, So you know, Neil wasn't.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
You don't get a ton out of these things.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
You have to read the tea leaves a little bit,
and I think, you know, some of the quick takeaways
were that, you know, he likes Travis Hunter and Ablule Carter.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
I think that was pretty obvious.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
And he's happy with who with their with their options
are going to be at three Joe Shane, would I
think like to draft a young quarterback in the draft
that they can try to develop into a franchise guy,
but he's not going to reach for one. And those
are the main themes that I kind of took out
of the day.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
It certainly seemed to me off the back of it
that it'll be Hunter Carter more likely Carter at three
than probably an offensive lineman at the top of the
second round, a quarterback in the third, and then you're
looking at you know, the D line, edge, running back, cornerback,
maybe tight end thereafter. Based off of like me trying

(01:31):
to decipher those two leaves that he was kind of laying.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, I mean, I think that second round pick is
really interesting, right, I'm not sure you can wait till
round three and get one of Milroe, Shook or Dart.
I'm not sure one of those three guys are going
to get there, which makes that picket get to ninety five,
which makes that picket sixty four that much more interesting.

(01:56):
If they don't do quarterback, they're assuming they don't pick
shit or three, which I don't think is you know,
a non reality at this point. I still, you know,
they've done the private workout with him yet, so they're
gonna do that, and they'll come to the final conclusion.
I also think to your point, I think offensive line
or defensive tackle I think is also in the cards there.
I think you can find more defensive tackles later. I

(02:17):
think it'll be tougher to find guards later, generally speaking,
in this draft. And I also did a mock draft
the other day, and I don't think this is going
to be reality. But Josh Connelly somehow got to thirty four,
and I think a tackle. Given Andrew Thomas as recent
injury issues and Jermaina Luminos on the last year of
his deal, he can also play guard if you need

(02:38):
him to. I don't think I would close the door
on a tackle if they think they can find a
starting tackle at thirty four either, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, And in the last decade there's been a ton
of top offensive line talent at the beginning of the
second round there, so I think it's certainly a viable option.
I'm kind of leaning more the way of a Kyle
McCord Will Howard at the top of the third by
comparison to the trade back into the first give up
additional draft capital, you get the fifth year option, all

(03:07):
that great stuff for Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, honestly, I would not trade back into the first
I would just stick it picking thirty four and think
about doing it that way.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, I assume that they're going to stick and pick
in most of their spots. But I mean, I agree
Joe did say I've been feeling some calls for number three.
But then you get into that whole debate of well,
can you pass up on a blue chip prospect? You know,
should you? Can? You? Will you?

Speaker 2 (03:31):
But everyone I've talked to things this is going to
be a pretty quiet draft in terms of trades. I
think maybe you might have some at the top of
the second round. That's where we get most of our
action these days, because all these guys and scouts and
gms go home and they look at the board and
they sleep on it, and they probably I think it's
stuck in their head that they really need one specific

(03:52):
player that's left if they were within shooting distance, and
then they just try to go up and get that guy.
So I do think if the giants, you know, wake
up Friday morning and they decide that, look, there are
four or five guys that we'd be happy with picking
in the second round and they get an offer to
move back four or five spots. I think that could
definitely be a possibility if you could pick up like

(04:14):
an extra four in a draft where I think from
picks seventy five to one twenty is really like the
meat of this draft where you're gonna get a lot
of good players. I think that's a or maybe like
sixty to one twenty, you're gonna have a real opportunity
to get some good players in that range.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
I agree with you. I think it's more realistic that
they trade back a bit at the top of the
second round by comparison to out of the top three
in the first round. But if it's a tough double
edged sword, right, because if you have a connorly there
somebody that you're super high on, but then somebody gives
you a call and gives you an offer, and then
you can get more picks. And let's face it, we're

(04:52):
not going to be winning a Super Bowl in the
next year or two, so I mean moonshot chance, never
say never, but in all likelihoods probably not playing out
that way. So does it make sense to still take
a step back and have more swings with the bat
by comparison to just sticking there and taking a guy
that you really like.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, and then you might be more comfortable using one
of those picks on a quarterback. Right if you get
another pick later on in the draft, if you want
to use a second round they're on the quarterback, you
have another pick, saying round four that you could use
on a defensive tackle or guard, which I think gives
you probably more of a one way to do that.
I think a player at a premium position would probably

(05:29):
be what would stop me from doing that. Maybe a quarterback.
I think that's possible if you really like one of
the guys. I think a guy like Connor who's an
offensive tackle or somebody else you think can be You know,
if Josh Simmons somehow gets to thirty four, which I
would be, I don't think Connor will be there either.
But if Simmons someone like that gets to thirty four,
people are afraid of the potelotend injury. You know, I
would be. I would be hard pressed to trade off

(05:52):
of that guy. But if you're looking at a defensive
tackle or a guard, I think there's gonna be plenty
of those guys that'll fit into that category. Where if
you trade down a half dozen spots, I would not
have a problem with that. And look a guy like
like Booker, I think, I think that's somebody you would
think about Donovan Jackson as someone you would think about there.

(06:13):
But if you settle for Jonas Savinea right or Tate
Ratledge later in round two. You know, early round three,
you know there are a number of guards or defensive tackles.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
You know, t J.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Sanders, Shamar Turner, you had a bunch of bigger guys
that Jamari calledwell, Omar Norman Lott. I mean, there's just
so many of these defensive tackles that are good that
you can get at the end of round two, start
around three, Alfred Collins. If you want a bigger guy
that I think, if that's what I'm looking at, a
garter or a defensive tackle, I'd be very willing to trade

(06:46):
down off of an offensive tackle.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Quarterback.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Maybe not, Yeah, I think interior offensive Lindman is really
deep in this draft, as is defensive line, as everybody's
kind of stated. But it's a matter of do you
need an offensive tackle, what's going to go on with
Ilumin or when his contract runs out? Can you trust
Andrew Thomas and the injury history there, and then you know,
you sign a couple of guys on free agency to
be swing tackle. But is there really like a long

(07:12):
term solution. You know, if Andrew Thomas got forbid, goes
down again, then you're kind of screwed. So, you know,
offensive tackle is one that I think falls off a
bit more after the second round by comparison to the
interior offensive line.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, I mean, I think once you get past your
top group, right, you're talking about Campbell Simmons, who we mentioned,
We're talking about Membo, We're talking about Connorly Kelvin Banks.
Once you get past those five, I mean, you're looking
at the Wayman, Mary Kid, right, Grant, Charles Grant, You're
looking at Oslo from Boston College, Arianta Arcuy from Minnesota,

(07:49):
and then you know, do you like the kid from
Iowa State, Travis. You know, that's someone I think is
later on on day three you could think about. But
you're right, you know, it's just not a deep This
is not last year's draft class. There's like, you know,
fifteen offensive tackles in the first you know, two three
rounds of the draft.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
You're not gonna have that this year. So I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
I think offensive tackle is something that would would make
you stick. I will say Joe Shane has spoke very
with a lot of confidence over the James Hudson edition.
I think he really does believe he can be a
good swing tackle. So maybe for them it is not
as much of a need. I think that's possible. But
look for me, offensive tackle and pass rusher or the
two spots, and even to an extent, an elite wide

(08:29):
receiver where these guys just don't become available in free agency.
You know, they had the trade for Brian Burns. They
didn't signed Brian Burns. The ate the trade for Brian Burns.
Trey Hendrickson, someone's gonna have to trade for him, right,
he's not a free agent, Tyreek Kill. Someone's gonna have
to trade for him. Someone had the trade for Devonte Adams.
You know te Higgins. He got resigned by the Bengals
despite all the challenges we think they're gonna have with
the cap with a bun Jamar Chase and you know,

(08:51):
Joe Burrow made all that money on offense, so those
and when's the last time a really good offensive I
mean a backup offensive tackle that's never been a starter
got fifteen million dollars a year this offse right, So
those types of players at those specific positions just don't
become available. So I'm always willing to take a guy
at one of those spots just because I think those
guys are tough to find.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
What positions do you think, like, I look at cornerback,
I look at tight end, I look at inside linebacker
for the Giants, and when you're kind of assessing the
depth chart at all those positions, there isn't really a
lot of meat on the bones there. What are some
of those secondary positions that you think the Giants could
address if need and value sort of intersect in a

(09:33):
way that's palatable for them by comparison to the trenches
that everybody knows about quarterback, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, I mean, I think defensive tackle, to your point is,
we know that's in need guards and need. In terms
of the rest of the spots, I don't feel running
back is a huge need. Like, if you go into
the year with their running back room, I think you're fine.
But if the reports that I've seen are to be
believed that I'm not confirming them that they've They've brought
in a ton of running backs to you know, for
their thirty visits. So I would not be surprised if

(10:03):
they took a running back at some point. I don't
know how early it would be, but this is a
class where you're gonna get a starting caliber running back.
It either pick ninety nine or one oh five, take
your pick. I have thirteen running backs I think with
round with starter grades rounds one through three, And maybe
I'm a little higher on some of these guys than others,
but I just think guys have all different shapes and sizes.
You want a banger, we got those. You want to

(10:25):
you know, elusive guy, we got those. You want a
pass catcher, we got those. I just think there's a
bunch of guys gonna be really good player. So I think,
just because the class is so strong at the position,
and you know, Singletary's on the last year of his deal,
Eric Grays heading into towards the end of his rookie contract,
they could pick a running back that would not shock me.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
I think inside linebacker is a sneaky type of need.
I do think they like Darius Mussa, who they drafted
last year. I think they like Mikel mcfatten t too,
But he's also on the last year of his rookie contract, right,
so what is that gonna look like next year? Bobby
o'caac is going into year three of his big contract
for a couple of years ago. You know, the guys
don't always play out those contracts.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'm not, you know, saying they're gonna let him go
or anything, but I think that's the future you have
to prepare for whenever that contract is up as well.
So I do think inside linebacker is a sneaky need.
I don't think this is a draft where you want
to have to draft it inside linebacker.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
I don't think it's a great group.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
You know, there's eight or so guys that I'd be
okay with at some point in the draft. But I mean,
I think in the first two rounds or Swessinger and
Campbell gonna be the only two inside linebackers taken. I
think there's probably a decent chance of that, to be
totally honest with you, you know, Barrett Carter Stutsman, you know,
I don't think those guys are getting into Round two.

(11:39):
So I don't think this is a great inside linebacker
class generally speaking, so I'm not sure this is the
draft to do that. In would it shock me if
they picked tight end? It would not again, just because
it's a very deep class, and I think what you
want to do in these drafts is attack the strengths
of these classes, right, so you get good players. Is

(12:00):
a fall further than they normally would in another year.
You know, Daniel Bellinger's you know, getting towards the end
of his three contract. I think they love THEO Johnson.
They think he'd be a starter, But I think also
Brian Day will love to play twelve personnel a little
bit more if he could. So you get a move
tight end to go with THEO Johnson, who's more of
your traditional why you can run some more twelve personnel stuff,

(12:21):
I think that's something you can consider.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
Corner.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
They have so many young guys already, I'm not sure
it's another ad another draft pick to corner. You know,
Flats towards the end of his rookie deal, but he
still remember when he did d He was twenty when
they drafted him, so he's a younger. He's a younger
fourth year guy. Deontay Banks is also a very young player.
Holland just came in. He's still only twenty six. Newban's
twenty five. They Drew Phillips as a second year player.

(12:47):
Paulson Adebo's just twenty six, so they already have so
much youth at those spots.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Maybe late in the draft, the defensive back, right around
five to six, something like that. I would not expect
anything much higher than that. And I think wide receiver
is something you can look at, you know, maybe somebody
that can interchange with neighbors a little bit. I don't
mean take neighbors off the field. I mean someone that
can play inside and outside so you can move neighbors
around and not worry about the other guy that you're

(13:15):
moving in with move outside. Wanda Robinson last year was
a good deal. I know they love him as a player.
I love him as a guy. He's awesome, good player.
But again, you have to plan for the future. Who
knows what that's going to look like with the contract
for him after the season. So I think a guy
that can play slot and outside is someone that would
be on my radar as well.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
That would be a good compliment to.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Neighbors, whether that's a bigger wide out or a guy
that maybe is a little bit smaller, faster, and more explosive.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
And I bring this up because I feel like some
of the best teams in the league are more proactive
about knowing contracts are going to be up and what
the situation might be in a year or two. We've
been in this reactionary mode of Okay, we lost the guy,
and now there's a gaping hole here that we need
to fill. So at what point do we start to

(14:06):
try to get ahead of that a little bit with
some of these areas, and then you get somebody in
and they get to learn the system, they digest the playbook,
and then when you naturally need them, then they can
hit the ground running by comparison to going out there
and getting thrust right into the fire.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, I think the problem the Giants have run into
with that specifically is they've the roster was in such
rough shape that you know, when Joe Shane and his
crew got here that they were trying to patch holes
and they never got to the point where you know,
they headed into the draft and there wasn't you know,
glaring maybe is too strong, but a pretty big need

(14:41):
for someone that was going to have to start right away.
Like you knew when they drafted Van Neil, they were
drafted Vvin Neil to start to right tackle, right he
was going to start. When they were drafted the Ante Banks,
they were drafting him to start a cornerback.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
That was indeed.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
But I think they've gone to the point now where
there's no gaping hole. We're saying, well, wherever we draft,
that guy's starting at that spot first week of the year,
no matter what, or put him in there. So I
think now you can start looking ahead to the future
a little bit. Joe Shane actually did to talk about this.
Art stabled into the question for him at the press
conference today about thinking about what the future looks like

(15:13):
at certain positions, and Joe Shane brought up on he
wasn't really cued in on this specific position, but he
talked about how in three years or two years, a
bunch of the cornerbacks are up that are on the roster.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Right.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
I think in three years, if you pick up Banks
this fifth year option, he's up, a Debo's up, Holland
is up, and.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Drew Phillips would be up.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
So all four of those guys will be up in
the same year in three years, so that is something
they're looking at, and I think that could influence what
they do here planning ahead, because that's why it's so dangerous, Dave,
to draft or need, because you might know what your
need is now, you can have no idea what your
need is. Next year, you might have no idea what
your need is, or four games into the year after

(15:56):
a couple guys get hurt. So just draft the best
guys at the most valuable positions, and trust me, if
they're good, you will figure out a way to get
them on the field.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yep, I agree with you there, so stick them with
the offensive running back and wide receiver. I feel like
a lot of fans, a lot of people I talk
to on my show, feel as though we could use
some size at the running back and wide receiver position,
get more of a big body, physical individual at either
one of those spots. But I kind of get the

(16:28):
sense of the way that they've been drafting the last
couple of years that they don't value the size nearly
much as they do the elusive speed shift, quick burst
that you get out of the people that they've been
drafting as of lake. So when you're looking at wide
receiver and running back where there is a ton of
depth of bigger body guys like you were alluding to
a moment ago, how do you think they're going to

(16:50):
approach it? And how would you want to approach it?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I think a defensive tackle, but you brought that up too.
I do think I would not be surprised if you
see one of the bigger body guys get drafted by
them this year to help stop the run a little bit,
and you know it's day two guys. A guy like
Alfred Collins, a guy like Tyler Williams, a guy like
Jamari Caldwell, the other guys that we brought up before.
The big kid from Florida Jackson. Is that his last name, Caldwell.

(17:14):
I'm trying to remember what the what with.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
The Florida Desmond.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
I don't remember his last name, but he's he's just
he looks a lot like Caldwell. He's just a huge
human being you want to go to like uh jj pegeese, right,
someone like that, who's a who's a who's a bigger
nose that can play a little bit inside. So I
would not be surprised to be see some size and
beef at defensive tackle taken in this draft. That would
not shock me at all. But in terms of receiver,

(17:40):
I agree with you. I think Brian Dable and he's
talked about this, this is not a state secret that
he wants guys that could separate.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
He doesn't.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
He's not interested in contested catches. And by the way,
laigueighbors even though he's not big as an excellent contested
catch player. So I think you already have a guy
that can do some of that anyway. So yeah, I agree.
I think you're looking for a guy with burst explosion
that can separate. So day two, I'm a big jaylen
Nole guy. I think he's gonna be a really good player,
and I think you can move him inside and outside.

(18:07):
I think he can. He's fast enough to play outside
if you want him to. He's got some speed. I
don't think he's ever gonna get there, but I think
a Mechagbuka would be a perfect guy to put in
the league. Neighbors who's just he can be blocks. I
think as sick he's almost six to one right, I
think he can play outside with his four four five
four four six speed or what was the four to
seven at the Pro Day. I think he can do both. Again,

(18:29):
I don't think he's getting the thirty four. But that's
a guy that just is a good football player. He
does everything well, catches everything, run goods routes. I think
he would be a great compliment to neighbors, the same
way he compliment to Jeremiah Smith, the same way he
compient to Marvin Harrison Junior and Jacksmith with the jigb
and all those guys.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
That's a guy that I like.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
You go a little bit deeper in terms of guys
that would fit the Giants Modus operan die.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Let me take a look here. Who else on my
receiver board that I would like for with the way
they do things?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Jack Besh is interesting because I think even though he
does time well, he gets open and he catches everything,
and he could play inside and he's big enough to
play outside. So I think Besh is a guy that
would be interesting. Trey Harris is someone that I think
has the physical tools to do the things we're talking about.
He's coming from an offense where he have a huge
rout tree, but man, he's he's big and he's talented.

(19:18):
Jalen Royles as a player I think would fit into
that conversation right as someone that is bouncy and can
run good routes and catch the football. Kyle Williams, I
think is probably a little bit too small to go outside.
I think he's more of a slot only in my opinion,
so I wouldn't necessarily count him.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
I really like Tory Horton out of Colorado State.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
He's somebody that is tall, but he gets in and
out of his brakes really well. So while he's a
taller guy, I do think he moves well. So that's
someone that I would also kind of consider.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
And later on.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Ty Felton I think is someone that that can do
a little bit of everything inside and outside. He's interesting
to me, and those are the guys that you know.
I Tesla, He's He's a bigger slot that I think
can also move outside. If you're talking about like a
Day three pick. So while it's not last year's wide
receiver class at the top, I think rounds two through four, man,
you're gonna find a lot of two and number two

(20:15):
and number three wide receivers that'll help whatever team drafts
them an awful lot win in some football games.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
And do you think they will feel similarly about the
flavor running back with a small, shifty, dynamic person. I mean,
because they have motor Singletary, so they must value a
little bit of girth at that position by comparison. But
how do you think they feel about running back?

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, it's funny, but Singletary is not the biggest guy, right,
But I think he's definitely between the tackles guy that's
gonna grind out yard. So I agree with you on
that based on some of the reports of the guys
they've brought in. They've brought in some guys with some beef,
to be honest with you, and they've also brought it
in them. Yeah, they've also brought in guys that can run,
so I think they're open to both. And I think
that's Tyrone Tracy's versatility gives you that option. You know,

(21:02):
if Tyland Tracy's gonna be your bigger bellcal back and
he's gonna rush sixteen to eighteen times a game, I
think that works.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
If he's gonna go down to twelve carries a game
and be more of a receiver given his receiver background,
I think that works too. Now, he has to get
better in pass por if he wants to play that role.
But you know, no rookies, generally speaking, or are very
good in past protection in the NFL, So I wouldn't
worry about that. I wore the confidence that that he
can handle that and take care of that. But I
think Tracy's versatility and skill set gives them the freedom

(21:31):
to pick guys from either group in terms of adding somebody.
But would it shock me if they walk away with
like and I'm just throwing out some names here of
guys that fit that that skill set. In terms of
bigger guys, I don't think they pick one at thirty four.
A player might be good enough to pick at thirty four.
I just don't see them doing a running back there.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
So I think there's.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Gonna be other positions of value there that it just
won't make sense to take a running back.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
I agree, I could be wrong. You know, Caleb Johnson
got coached by Ladell Betts. You know he might not
make it to ninety nine. Quinn Shawn Jenkins, the Ohio
State running back, another one of the bigger bruisers. He's
not gonna get to ninety nine. So if you want
either one of those guys. Though, I was talking to
Dan Brugler, he thinks Johnson might get to round three
because of his his poor pro day and stuff like that.

(22:19):
Cam Scattabo is someone I think that will be there
in round three. I have a second round grade on him,
but I think the NFL is worried about his lack
of top speed. I just think he's too much fun.
He just breaks so many tackles. He's so much fun.
I love that guy.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
He's great.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
And then Damian Martinez is the other banger that I
think if you're looking at to get a bigger guy,
he should be there. I think I probably will be
there at the top of round three. But look, if
you want to go with more of a scatback type,
I love Dylan Samson. You know, if he's sitting there
at the top a round three, I gobble him up,
I think. But him with Tracy I love that combination.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
RJ.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Harvey is a guy that I think is just really dynamic.
He's fun. I'm gonna big Burchard Smith fan at of SMU.
He's a all like just like Tracy right. He was
a converted receiver, but he's got some much like Tracy,
he's got he's got some girth and some muscle to
him where he can break some tackles, and you would
have given to him ten to twelve times, I think
you'd be fine and then use him as a receiver.

(23:13):
So there are a ton of options here and some
Trevor Atien is another one of the smaller guys that
I think would be kind of a compliment to Tracy,
who would then be more of your bellcal It's a
great class man. There's running backs that I even watch
it that I need to that I think are gonna
be you know, guys you could pick it around four
or five that can still play. But they canna have
so many options, and I'm curious. That's one of the

(23:33):
things I don't know the answer to. Like I think
they'd probably go with a beefier defensive tackle. That's my instinct.
I don't know if that's true or not. That's just
my instinct, But I'm curious to see what type of
running back they wind up with when.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
They walk out of this draft.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
We'll be a guy that turns Tracy into your bigger back,
or will it be a guy that turns Tracy into
more of your third down type of explosive back.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
There's a ton of value on Day three at the
running back position. I think, you know, there's only so
many draftable players, right, I mean, if you look at it,
there's thirty one other teams in the league, and people
are gonna have to take these running backs and they're
not going to double dip it running back in all likelihoods,
So it's natural there'll be a couple of alliers, don't

(24:17):
get me wrong, but for the most part, it's going
to push a lot of people down. So you are
going to be able to find incredible value on Day three,
and even in the undrafted free agent territory, I think, so, yeah,
you know, I love Cam Skataboo. Can you justify taking
him at the top of the third round when you
have some other holes and there's going to be incredible
talent at positions of a more dire need. Like that's

(24:39):
sort of a dicey equation and you have to kind
of find that balance of Okay, defensive line is super deep.
Joe Shane said that cornerback to him is super deep.
Running back is incredibly deep. Wide receiver is pretty deep.
So at what point do you have to prioritize some
of the other positions that aren't nearly as deep that

(24:59):
you mean, I need more of an impact out of
earlier on.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
And look, and I think that's the fun of the draft, right.
I just did an interview this morning with Thomas Dimitrov,
who's gonna Aaron on the Giants Httle podcast on Monday,
and I asked them that they go, how much when
you're planning your draft do you do more than just
pick the best player?

Speaker 3 (25:17):
Right?

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Do you pick the guy at a position over somebody
else because you think you can the draft is deep
at the other position and you can kind of get
that later. He goes, yeah, we do that. We even
do that when we plan for free agency.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
Right.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
If we know that it's a good draft at a
certain spot, you know, we're not give us this year.
Like I'm not gonna go sign a running back in
free agency, right because I know the draft is so
good at that spot, I'm gonna wait and do that.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
So I think front officers do plan that way.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
I think Joe Shane to an extent plans that way
as well, and they kind of build scenarios, right and
the next week that's what they're gonna be doing. You know,
most of their board stacking is going to be done.
As Joe Shane said today, you still be with the
coaches that might affect your stack a little bit. But
this is when you start working scenarios. You know, all right, well,
if these players are here, which one do we pick? Well,

(26:00):
what's the chance that this player is going to be
here on round four? And you kind of go through
those mock drafts, you look at the consensus board. I
doubt they use mock draft simulators, but you can't be
right if they do that too. And you try to
figure out who's going to be available at each pick,
and that helps you put your overall draft plan together,
so you fill as many of those needs as you

(26:20):
can while also selecting the guys of great value because
to your point, they've you said this before, the last
thing you want to do is sitting there in round
three and you're desperate to get a guy at a
certain position and the only guy at that position is
like has a fifth round grade on them, then you're stuck.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
So a lot of.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
That planning I think does go into it, and I
think it'll be interesting to see how the Giants decide
to execute that plan on draft night.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
A huge mock draft simulator guy an addict pretty much.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Oh, they're fun. They're fun.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, they are, And for the purpose of what we're discussing,
right whenever I do them, and I use a variety
of different sites, so you get to play around with
different boards and rankings, because in real life you have
no idea how the other teams stack players. But I
always consistently see you know, interior offensive linemen, running backs,

(27:13):
wide receivers, defensive linemen later on in Day three, and
it's like, okay, how many can I like, double dip
triple dip, you know, like, at what point are they
the best player available? But I've already addressed that need
earlier in the draft, so trying to figure out how
to finess. Okay, well maybe I should priority. If I'm
gonna look at a tight end like they're bringing Elijah

(27:34):
or Royo, you don't have to take him in the
third round. Some teams even have him as a second
round guy. You know, so are you gonna address a
position like that? And then wait more on some of
these other areas. The mock draft simulators is certainly a
fun exercise to go through the motions there.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, we did a mock draft I mentioned on Big
Blue Kickoff on Monday, and we got to.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Pick thirty four.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Abdul quarter was to pick at three Hunter and water
Bowl off both off the board. Dart and Sa had
been taken by the Saints and.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Steelers, respectively. I believe it was Dart still there.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Dart might have still been there actually, but it was
Dart or one of the other quarterbacks Shukar Miller or
whatever your flavor is. It was Connorlly somehow got to
thirty four, which is the guy that I picked. But
Tyler Williams was there, Donovan Jackson was there, and those
were kind of the main guys we were choosing between
the thirty four, and we had a good debate, and

(28:30):
you know, we all thought about Tyler Williams, but we
thought we could get a defensive tackle later. So ultimately
my two cohorts side tacking and Meadow went with Donovan Jackson.
I ended up going with Connor Leebase. Again, I just
think finding an offensive tackle was a lot harder. But
those are the types of decisions the Giants are gonna
have to make when they get to thirty four and
they plan looking ahead, you know, later in the draft.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
That's why I'd be surprised if they pick.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
A running back at thirty four, just because I think
you can get one around later that that's gonna be
nearly as good. Like how much distance is there between
Junkins and Scatabo, Like, yeah, I think Junkins is a
little bit of a bit of prospect. But is it
enough to not use that pick thirty four in a
different position?

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Not my opinion.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Now the Giants might think differently, and they obviously have
much more information on scotting these guys than we do,
and I would yield to their expertise on that. But
that's all I would think about the running back position,
where I think you're looking at pick sixty four, and
I think even the sweet spot might be ninety nine
or one oh five when you're trying to find the
guy where we're gonna get the best value.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
So assume Josh Connelly is there, Like your mock draft
kind of played out, who would be the defensive tackle
would be like a Kenneth Grant that, like, who's the
guy that you would take over Josh Connolly?

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Good question I would probably take.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
I mean, I have Nolan graded behind Connory, so I'd
probably pick Connolly over him. Grant, I believe I have
graded just ahead of Connory. That would probably be the
guy I would think about. If Derrek Harmon is there,
I'd run to the podium. Think Derek Carmon's awesome. He's
I think he's my tenth greatest player, the highest graded
player in this draft. I think he's really really good.

(30:07):
He's big, he can stop the run, he can get
after the quarterback. Everyone says he's a good dude. That's
a guy. I just think he kind of checks all
those boxes in terms of I don't see a weakness
with him, Like what's Derek Carmon's weakness. I don't see it.
So I would be thrilled if he was there. But yeah,
I think you hit the names.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Grant.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
I might pick connor Ley over granch just because of
position value, even though I've have Grant great a little
bit higher. But that would make the decision a lot
tougher because I do think someone of Grant's size and
athleticism is rare enough where he's worth taking at thirty four.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, he fit the bill of what you were kind
of alluding to wanting to go after in that position,
which is why I kind of threw out his name there.
But yeah, I always like to mess with with my
guests around, like, all right, if you're dead set on
this guy, so Connorley's there, and then somebody calls and
offers you, Like, at what point are you willing to sell?
There's a price, right, So I love to try to
figure out what that price might end up being. But

(31:04):
how do you feel about double dipping at positions in
a draft? And do you think it is a potential
for the Giants in this class?

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Defensive tackle all the way, baby, If you want to
get one big and one small at defensive tackle with
three tech and then a plugger, I'm good with that.
I think that's probably the only spot I would double dip.
I don't think i'd double dip anywhere else. You know,
maybe offensive line generically you get like one guard one tackle.
I'm not sure if you could consider that double dipping.
I wouldn't, but it's two offensive linemen. I wouldn't do

(31:37):
it at edge, especially if you draft abdul Quater. I
don't think you're going to have room for a fourth
guy in that rotation to get significant playing time. And
it real would be the fifth right bause they signed
Chauncey Golston as well, so it be your fifth guy
at edge, though I think Golston will get a lot
of the snaps. Is a three techniqu pass rusher on
third downs, which is why I think they're probably Again
this is just my gas. I don't know anything that

(31:59):
they lean plug you're a defensive tackle, because I think
they have their they believe they have their three technique
pass rusher on passing downs in Golston already, and I
don't think people talk about that enough because he's technically
an edge but that's where he got most of his
pressures for Dallas last year.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Not rushing off the edge, rushing at three technique.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
So I think that's part of my equation of why
I think they're gonna look plugger more than upfield guy.
And frankly, I just think Brian Dable's sick and not
being able to stop the run. Dude, like he's just
tired of it, like he can't take it anymore. And
I think they're gonna do what it takes to to
make that happen. But I would double dip a defensive tackle.
I don't think you can have enough good players there.
You look at guys signed long term at that position,

(32:38):
it's really only Dexter Lawrence and nobody else has really
signed long term at that spot. So that if there's
one place I double dipped, it would be a defensive tackle.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
And do you think if they were to double dip
then it would be like a nose tackle and a
three tech or do you think that they might double
dip and just get a couple of hogs in there?

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Boy, I think it would be one of each.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
That would be my bet, because again, and they don't
have besides Golsen another three tech. Uh. They did sign
two veterans to to short term contracts in the offseason
from the Jaguars that that can play a little bit.
But I think it would be one of each. I
think it'd be one plugger and one three tech would
be my bet.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
Who were some of the other defensive tackle names? You
like a little bit deeper?

Speaker 3 (33:19):
Yeah, good question. Let me take a look on my
defensive board.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, I'm about one hundred and twenty years sold players
in a year, so I've think gone super duper deep.
I would be talked about Jamoy Caldwell already. I think
he's a very good peace.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Love the Oregon team this year.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
They probably had the second, second or third best team
in college football, right, It's not a bad team to
plug guys from.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
I was just surprised at how athletic he was.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Like, he is a massive human being, and he doesn't
look pretty in a jersey, like I was up close
with him at the Senior Bowl and it's sloppy, like,
you know, you aren't looking at like some madonnas. But
that dude can play football. Man, he is a good
football player. I think CJ.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
West and Jordan Phillips are both third round picks all
day long. CJ.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
West, his athletic testing at the Combine was excellent, and
then you watch the tape, which is much more important.
He does not get moved. He's got short arms. That's
a problem, and he's not gonna give him as much
pass rush. But you want a guy to plug the
middle for you and stop the run, that's your guy.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
CJ. West is good.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Jordan Phillips out of Maryland, he's a guy that has
no literally no sack production. He's only twenty years old.
He's a three year player. He did not red shirt,
so he's a legitimate three year player, a true junior.
And you see the pass rush upside with him on tape.
You also saw it at the Shrine game when I
was there. And West was also really good at the
Shrine game, by the way, And you know, I think
Phillips can give you some upfield pass rush, but at

(34:43):
the same time, he's very good in the middle in
the run game as well. So I think both those guys,
you know, I don't think you'd have to necessarily use
sixty five on them. You might be ninety nine. Yeah,
So I think that's one of the guys that that
would be interested in. I mentioned Olman Norman lot before.
I'm not as high as Joshua Farmer as everyone else's.

(35:04):
I have him kind of like an end the third
round type of guy, but if he's there at you know,
one oh five ninety ninety, someone I would consider. So
those are some of the guys I think in round
three or later. And I mentioned JJ Pageese. I think
that's a guy if you're looking for a Round four
defensive tackle that that can plug a little bit.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
I like him.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Peebles is another guy if you want someone that could
just kind of stuff the middle a little bit.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
He's a Day three guy. He's Virginia Tech, if I
remember right, correct. He's a guy.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
That I think, Yeah and again he's kind of a short,
little stout guy, but he's a good player, and he's
not gonna be a ton of pass rush, but he
can't stop the run. So and again, I have not
gotten to as many DT's as I want. I you know,
you know how this goes, Davey. Draft Day comes and
you're like, I watched so many guys, and then you
get there and you're like, well, I wish I could
have watched these other six, which is kind of what

(35:55):
makes the draft fun but frustrating at the same time,
because the work is literally never done, especially for someone
like me who's playing a lot of catch up once
the regular season ends, you know, when I'm watching all
NFL stuff, So it's fun.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
I haven't got as deep as I want.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
But the defensive tackle and edge groups, which just you know,
the edge might even be deeper the defensive tackle.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
It's it's crazy. They're great groups.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yep, oh for sure. I just did a show earlier
today with Rick Savitala and we he is a guy
that I can dive real deep. We pretty much just
stuck with Day three and undrafted free agent types.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
And that's great.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
All the ringers of him. Yeah, so if you if
you need some names like Ty Robinson is one. I
don't know if you looked at Ty Robinson and all
out of Nebraska.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
But yeah, I've watched him. I like I have like
an early third round grade on him. I like him.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, Yeah, I like him a lot too.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Three tech type five tech two if you want.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yep, very versatile, knocked out the combine. Good character would
fit in the locker room, well, giants, culture, all that
kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
I was surprised he wasn't more productive at the Senior Bowl.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
I was very excited to see him in Mobile and
then he had a really quiet which I was surprised by.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, he just kind of got lost in the rotation,
you know. I mean that happens sometimes where there. I mean,
there's so much talent. Darius Alexander was taking up a
lot of the line light down there, and once he
kind of get infatuated with one or two of those guys,
then it's tough not to overlook the rest of the pack,
right because everybody's got eyes on certain play.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
I'll give you a couple more that that kind of
just popped in my head.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
I got Warren Brinson out of George Georgia. I think
he's my favorite of the three Georgia defensive linemen. You
have Stackhouse and then what Ingram Dawkins I think is
the third. Yeah right, Yeah, I think Brinson's my favorite
of those three because I think he's over three hundred
pounds and he gives you some level of athleticism that
Stackhouse doesn't and gives you more size than Dawkins does.

(37:47):
So I think Brinson's a guy that impressed me a
little bit. He was someone that I liked watching him
down at the Shrine game as well. So that would
be another one of these defensive tackles that I think
can can give you. A little Ti Hamilton at of
Ohio State. I don't think he's a sexy player, but
I think he'll give you really solid play as a
as a round four, round five guy to stop the

(38:08):
run and just give you a solid presence on the
defensive line.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, Georgia, Ohio State, Old Miss Oregon absolutely loaded on
the defensive line.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Texas A and M two Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
No, you're right, yep. With all those folks, for sure,
we're coming up on time here. I want to be
respectful of that. For you, obviously, any other prospects on
day two that you feel super high on that you
think might be a good fit for the Giants.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
I can give you another five if you want it.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, sure, man.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
I'm I'm a Ferguson guy at tight end.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
I think that might be a little bit early because
I think he's going to be a second round pick.
But I think he's going to be a very good player.
I actually like him better than Mason Taylor. I know
a lot of people love Mason Taylor. I think Ferguson's
going to be really good. I like Harold Fannon. I'm sorry,
you know, you don't get fourteen hundred receiving yards by accident.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
And he just gets open.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
And he's one of these guys that's just tough to
cover about with the way he runs routes. He's good
after the catch, He's a natural catcher of the football.
I think he's gonna end up being a very very
productive f tight end. If you're looking for a move
guy to put with Theo Johnson, I could see and
you know, a lot of people think Fan I might
get to like the end of the third round.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Two.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
If he does, I would gobble him up in a second.
I think he's a really good player. I watched some
corners today who do I like. I like the Noel
Williams at a cow He's a guy on on day three,
I like him better than both I watched Dorian Straw
and Quincy Riley and Noel Williams City. I think Williams
was my favorite of the three. I think he is

(39:41):
probably a little bit stickier than the other two guys
at those spots.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
I think he's a really good player.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
I like Josiah Stewart out of Michigan, and I know
he ran at the Michigan Pro Day or the Will
Johnson fake Pro Day thing, whatever it was, and apparently
he ran like a four to eight something I believe.
I think I heard Dame Bruler report that earlier today.
But man, I know he's undersized. That dude is good
against the run. He will set that edge with authority,

(40:07):
and he plays with a with an energy and a
feisiness that I think is contagious on defense. So even
though he's undersized, I think he has really short arms
as well.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Out the double check the measurements. But that's a guy.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
I just love the way he plays and I think
he's gonna be a good football player down the road.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
He had a great Senior Bowl week, definitely turned some
heads or East West Shrine, whichever one he was at.
I forget which one he was.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
At, but yeah, I don't think he was senior. I
don't remember.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah he was at one of the balls, but yeah,
I know those are all. It's very interesting to me
that you immediately went down the tight end rabbit hole.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
It's a good group, MANU. It is.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
It is, but that I think tight end is a
perfect need for us, and it's a really solid draft
class for it. But anytime I bring that up with people,
they're like, what do you mean tight ends? THEO Johnson
like there is we We got man Hurts, we got Bellinger,
Like we don't need another tight end, And I'm like, yeah,
but like you were alluding to earlier on in the show,
is you know day Bo wanted to play twelve man

(41:06):
fronts and you know, would it be the worst thing
in the world to have two solid tight end options
on the field these days? I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, And then and then look two other day, three
guys that like a tight end and I'll throw out
to you at Gunner.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Helm at a Texas, Texas.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
I think he got banged too hard for what happened
to him at the combine where he kind of sprained
his ankle, tried to run anyway, and it was it
was terrible, and his drills were bad. But you know,
he put out the photo of his ankle and it
looked like an ankle injury that to be in a
boot for like a week if it was a real injury. Right,
He's just got really good hands. He's a natural catcher.
He's not the fastest guy in the world, but he tries.

(41:40):
As a blocker, I think that'd be a great pairing
with Theo Johnson. And then if you're looking for more
of a blocking type you really want to bang people.
I think Mitchell Levin's had a notre dame, is going
to be a good pro. You know, he's coming off
an injury. I think it took him a while this
year to kind of get going a little bit. But
I think Mitchell Elevens has a chance to be a
nice little player as a.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Day three pick as well.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
So yeah, I would have no problem with the tight
end here and again as you start planning for the future,
and I think that's what you have to do if
you're a good football team. And I think Joe Shane's
gotten to the point with this roster where you can
stop worrying about immediate needs as much as just picking
good players. That's why I keep going back to the
to the spots Dave that we talked about being deepest
in the class defensive tackle, running back, tight end, edge,

(42:25):
wide receiver to an extent, where you're going to find
players late in this draft that are going to be
contributors because that's where the draft is best, and those
are the spots I want to target, Like, this is
not the draft to pick offensive tackle on round four.
Odds are you're not going to get a very good one.
But if you select a guy at a spot that's heavy,
where in a normal year, this defensive tackle is going

(42:45):
in the middle of a round two, but this year,
because it's so deep, he's going at the end of
round three.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
That's where you're gonna find your value.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
And you just got to then at that point pick
the right guys, which is really the toughest part, which
no one has. No one really is the real answers
to that. I think a lot of it's luck. Some
of it you know obviously, you know analysis and what
you value as an evaluator, but you know, just just
get the strategy right. And I think Joe Shane understands
that part of it, especially the way you talked about
at the press conference today, and I think that's that

(43:12):
the Giants going to attack the draft.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Would you be more surprised at tight end or wide receiver?
Is a Day two pick?

Speaker 3 (43:23):
I'd be more surprised Day two tight end wide receiver.
I'd be more surprised. I think it tight end.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
But that's a where you're going to get most of
the real quality talent, you know. That's why I'm curious
you take it.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
It's a good question because I do think you could
probably find a better wide receiver than a tight end
in round four, even in this year's draft, right right,
it's close.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
It's close.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
I think I don't think either would shock me, to
be totally honest with you, but I think i'd be
a little bit more surprised a tight end. But I
might change my mind the next week. I think that's
a good question. I know I've not gotten that question before.
That is a really good question.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yeah, No, definitely, man, I always try to like play
Devil's advocate and kind of think differently. But yeah, whenever
I'm talking to a guest as well, and I kind
of get an understanding of how your motor's working up
top and what you're prioritizing, then trying to set you
up with a more convoluted question that really gets you
thinking is always definitely a motive for me.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
But if I had to choose, if I was the GM,
I think I would go tight end first, wide receiver second,
and that's what I would do. But saying not sure
what Brian Dable and Joe Shane would do, I think
that's an interesting question.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
It would be probably too crazy to think that they
would take a tight end at the top of the
second round, unless like Coulson Loveland like falls in your
lap or something like that.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
I agree that would him.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Warren or Loveland, neither of which you're going to be
there at third and four, would be the only two guys.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
I know. Some people really think Mason.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Taylor might go that high, and he's very popular and
I would look. He's super young. I think he's only
twenty years old. He's a good athlete. You watch him
on tape. He blocks too, like he really tries to block.
He's a really good all round player. I don't see
the spectacular in anything, but he's really good at everything.
So that's the only other guy that I think could

(45:19):
be possibly in play at thirty four. And I just
don't know if a Royal gets to you at ninety five,
I don't know if Ferguson gets to you at ninety five.
Those would be the other two guys that I think
would be second rounder as if I had to bet.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
I'm a huge Royal guy. If the medicals check out,
I think he's better than Mason Taylor, much better athlete.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
I think he is too, I agree with you, But yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
It is somebody a taste aabbing at him the back
half of the second round, like you're probably gonna have
to snipe him at the top of the third if
he gets see you there, which is where I think
they're looking at it if since they brought him in.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
But yeah, I think it depends what you need too, right,
I mean, if you're looking for more of a why
tight end. I think you pick Tailor over a Royal
if you're just looking for a pure receiver based on
receiving a talent or Royals to.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Pick yeah for sure.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Man.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Well look, John, I know we got over time here.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Really, this is always fun. That design has been a
really fun shot. I'm happier able to hook up and
do this.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
This is great. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
No, likewise, I appreciate you and making time on short notice.
Always happy to chat draft with you any time, and
we'll be following you the rest of uh well, we'll
be pretty much a week out at this point from
destination Green Bay.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
It was so much tighter this year between free agency
and the draft. It didn't help that the Giants added
their two quarterbacks like two weeks after free agency started,
which which kind of stretched out even more for us
in the building having to, you know, do all our
free agency work and things like that.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
But you know, the.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Draft is that, Joe Shane said as the presser. Take
the draft is just as early as it can be, right,
It's never twenty fourth.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
This is just really early.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
And I think I have not gone back and counted,
but if I would gather that the distance between combine
and draft was the shortest that's been in probably four
or five years. It just seemed very tight to me,
and I just think it's been an accelerated process.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
It's fun. I love doing it. I'm looking forward to
being to take a little bit of a break once
we get past this. Now.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
It's just fun, you know, watching all these guys. So
even if the Giants stone draft them, you have a
much better feel when you get an opponent and you're
preparing for the game and you're like, oh, I remember
his evaluation. I can having notes of this, so I
thought about this guy, this, I thought about that guy.
And you kind of track the players as they go,
which which to me is fun. And the whole point
is to learn, and you learn about your evaluation skills.

(47:47):
You correct things along the way as you learn lessons
as you go, and that's part of the fun.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Man.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
I think that that's to me why the draft is
so much fun. The work's never done and you're learning
something new every day. When you look at a different
player and no one's the same, you know everyone's different
and everyone wins in different ways. There is no tried
and true formula that all right, Well, if this guy
has this trade, this trade, this Tradey's always good, no,
because then you have guys that completely break the mold
and they're great too. So figuring out which guy is

(48:14):
going to be good, I think is such an art
and not a science, and it's just it's just irresistible
to me in trying to figure this stuff out, as
wrong as all of us usually are.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Well, and the scheme dependent and somebody, you know, if
Tom Brady didn't land on the Patriots and then fall in,
you know, like would he have become Tom Brady. There's
so many people that kind of get lost in the shuffle.
And yeah, even though it was a condensed timeline this year,
I saw something that this is actually the largest draft
class over thirty four hundred. It is eligible players coming

(48:45):
out this year. So yeah, to couple the short timeline
of like you know, the dates and everything with the
fact that it's the largest class and you have to
come through I mean, I'll probably get through three to
four hundred prospects this man. I try to get deeper
than that, but it's just been a crazy year for me.
But yeah, I can't imagine having to go through three thousand.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
That's just like, yeah, I mean, look, it's it's the
last year of the extra COVID eligibility, right, so six
and seven year guys and stuff coming out. So you know,
it's fun and you know, if the folks, if this
conversation interest you, go listen to Big Blue Kickoff Live
for Live every day twelve thirty to one thirty. Giants
dot Com, Giants app. We're doing all draft talk, but
the Johnsonville Podcast as really I think with your fans

(49:27):
should go check out. We've had some great draft guests
coming up. Brian Broadest, former NFL scouts coming up. I
mentioned Thomas Demetrov. We had Nate Tye, we had Dan Brugler,
we had Matt Miller.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Who else do we have?

Speaker 2 (49:38):
We Matt Manicherian who runs SIS, the sports data company.
He's a former NFL scout as well. He joined us.
Charles Davis was on the show, hoping to get Todd McShay.
We're going to see if that works out. We hope
to get We hope to get Chris Sims in the
next week as well. So a lot of fun guests,
and you know, Chris always has very unique opinions on
some of these classes too, So make sure people go

(50:01):
tune onto Johnsontle podcast, and then finally the Draft Season podcast,
which is Tony. You know, we do that Tony Pauline.
That's basically nine months a year. We take a break
from May, you know, end of May, June, July, and then.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
The first part of August.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
You take about three months off in the summer, but
then otherwise we just do all draft talk, not just giants,
just draft talk from basically.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Late August to now to the first week of May.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
We have live shows on fan Wednesday Night on Sunday morning,
eight to seven to nine on Wednesday Night before the draft,
then eight to ten Sunday morning recapping it, and then
Draft Season. The last episode every year before we take
our hiatus, as Tony goes through is twenty twenty twenty
six watch list, So we'll have that episode about a
week after the draft, where you know, Tony kind of
gives me my summer tapic assignments where I need to

(50:50):
start watching guys to get ready for next year, which
the work never ends, which is why it zest man.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah, I take a long hiatus. I enjoy the summer.
I don't really get back into the swing of things
until like November December. I just need that break, and
then I get him pretty hardcore in the months leading
up to it, and then I do this podcast. I've
been doing this for a few years now, just pretty
much in April. I just cram it all into April.

(51:17):
I'm not a podcast. So did you the name dave
T Thomas ring any bells to you at all?

Speaker 2 (51:23):
It did, but I couldn't place it. Was he a
former g Wasn't a former Giant scout?

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Was he? So?

Speaker 1 (51:28):
He ran the NFL draft for like over forty years. Okay,
he used to compile all the big books with all
the scouting. Lancer Line took over his seat. Basically when
the draft turned into a road show, dave T was like,
I'm done with this. It needs to stay in Radio city,
and they were like, that's not happening. We need to

(51:50):
make more money off of it.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
So he worked like the NFL or like the National
Scouting Service.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yep, the NFL L I got you, yeah, And then
he spun off. He had his own independent scouting service
team utilized his reports. I mean, he knew nice everybody.
He actually gave Roger Goodell his start as an intern
in the league. Offices way back in the day. So yeah,
he was pretty plugged in. Taught me everything I know
about scouting. It's his show and it's keeping it going

(52:14):
as a legacy to him, and I masquerad his podcast
these days, so you know, it's what it is.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
But hey, that's awesome, and look, all of us have
to learn somewhere. I'm glad you had a mentor like that.
I've tried to pick things from like Sean o'haron, David
Dial and guys like that and kind of just figure
out as I go. I'm I really need to some
point sit down with the scout for like a week
and have them actually teach me how to do this properly,
because I've kind of figured it out as I'm kind
of along, which I guess is part of the fun too, right.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
The big thing that he would always tell me is
trust your eye. Don't focus so much on the data.
Everybody is so enamored with. I mean, there's so many
metrics and datas and scores and tests, and you know,
everybody gets so infatuated with all those decimal points. But
at the end of the day, you pop on tape
and if you see it in a guy, than trust

(53:00):
your gut.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Yeah, and I think it's feel too right.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
I think so many of these scouting reports now you
read them, I think people are making an effort to
be as detailed as possible. They break down like every
little aspect of the guy's game. This is good, this
isn't good, this is good, And I think that's important
and I do the same thing. But I do think
to your point, a lot of it's no, no, no, this
guy's going to be a good player. You know how
he's going to figure it out. I don't know, but
he's going to be a good player. And you have
to believe in that.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah. Absolutely, conviction is everything, and like you said, it's
not a science. We're all catastrophically wrong ninety percent of
the time. Absolutely, so fun to talk about it, you know.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
That's right, Absolutely, David. It was fun being with you man.
Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah. Likewise, John, appreciate you making the time, Appreciate your
listeners tuning in. We'll cut you guys on the next
Scouts on a podcast