Ric Serritella Joins to Hammer Day 3 Prospects

The man himself Ric Serritella from All Access Football and Founder of the NFL Draft Bible joins the show. We dive deeper than anyone on day 3 prospects and UDFAs. Not too many can hang in this ring, but this is where scouts make their bones. You'll be hard pressed to find someone more knowledgeable than Ric. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome back to another edition of the Scouts Honor Podcast.
We're pleased to be joined today by a first time
guest of the show from All Access Football, founder of
the NFL Draft Bible, Ric in the Place to Be,
and today this is the place to be, New Jersey's finest,
Rick Sarahtella Rick, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Pal, it is indeed, thanks for having me, Dave.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
I know we've been planning and plotting this meet up
for quite some time and I'm honored to be on.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
The Scouts Honor Podcast. And Dave T.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Thomas was Religious Musty TV when I was growing up
and influencing me and wanting to get involved in scouting
and be a draft analyst. So I'm so happy that
we can kind of keep his tribute and salute going
and moving forward and that he could bring us together.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Man, this is cool.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I appreciate you making the time though
it's a busy time of year for you with everything
that you got going on. Just dropped the NFL Draft Bible.
Encourage all the listeners to go check that out if
you haven't already. Incredible information and insights from ricking the
team there. But yeah, were you down at the Senior Bowl.
By the way, I see the hoodie, dude I got

(01:14):
I'm gonna say I didn't see it in there.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
You know what.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
So like I had Naggy on this show like the
last few years, and he was trying. He's saying like, dude,
you got to come down here, you got to come
down here, and I just I've never found the time.
But no, I'm a huge I got like a Senior
Bowl helmet back here.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I I don't even have that going on.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
I got I got all kinds of Senior Bowl collectibles.
I'm a huge Senior Bowl guy. Because you're you're swinging,
You're probably not missing when you're drafting Senior Bowl talent.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
So unless your name is Daniel Jones, yeah for sure,
Yeah right right right, righters, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
The Jersey Giants Tri state area fan base hates me
for some reason right now because I'm all over Shad
Door Sanders. But like when you have a loser quarterback,
then like where you're going in life. I saw the
Jones Shane press conference today. He had his face on
and you know, he start grinning when he started talking

(02:22):
about Abdul Carter Jr.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Maybe he's the pick. I don't know. All I can
tell you is like there is no plan in place.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
If they bypass on a quarterback, and I don't know,
we'll see what happens.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
It's been fascinating to watch.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Do you think that there's the world where they kick
the can down the road? I mean because based off
of that pressure. I watched the pressure too, and it
basically seemed like it was more likely that, yeah, they're
gonna take one of the Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, whoever's
there that Cleveland doesn't take there, and then wherever the
value intersects, which it sounded more like round three, round four,

(02:58):
round five, base off what he alluding to in the
press conference. But if they don't come away with a quarterback,
it sounds like they're fine kicking that can down the
road the next year.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Now, Joe Shane won't be around next year to make
that selection. That's my point. Like, you didn't pay Russell
Wilson as a starting quarterback. You paid him ten point
five million dollars. You paid Daniel Jones forty million dollars
a year, so you didn't you didn't have the confidence
in the in the paycheck to pay Russell Wilson, like
you thought he was a starting quarterback. But like if
you if you don't draft a quarterback at three, but

(03:29):
then you still take one later in the draft, you're
acknowledging that you need a quarterback, yet you're not gonna
put your balls on the line and go get one.
Like to me, Shador Sanders is a franchise quarterback. He's
been talked about that since he was at Jackson State.
Then all of a sudden, like you tune into the
NFL network in ESPN the last two or three weeks,
and he suddenly forgot how to play football, like it's
a joke.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
So you think that he is worthy of the number
three overall pick. How much is the gap for you
between Ward and Sanders there?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well, I have Sanders as my number one quarterback.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think I have him as the seventh or eighth
overall prospect, and you know cam Ward's not too far behind.
But I mean, I like Shador Sanders because of the
ability to make all the throws, to extend plays and improvise.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
He doesn't make mistakes. He's built for this.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Like his leadership, he doesn't get any credit, like should
Travis Hunter wasn't going to even participate in the pro
dain until Shador Sanders convinced him to come and work
out with his teammates.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
You didn't hear people about that the man can do
no good?

Speaker 3 (04:35):
And like I got Giants fans all over my case
talking about I'm on Coach Prime's payroll.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
I can tell you that's not the case.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
But I'm in a winning and I know, like based
on the games that I saw, you know, and shout
out to John Schmelk.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
I know you're gonna be talking to him. I love
him like a brother.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
But like I tuned into the Giants dot com guys
after the Joe Shane presser, and I'm listening to these
guys talk themselves into Russell Wilson being a good quarterback,
like it's comical.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Oh well, you know, listen.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
I know he was on a playoff team, but he
was six and five as a starter.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
He could still win games in the league.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
It's like, well, then in Justin Field's hand them off
a five and one football club, Like, I mean, Russell
Wilson is not a winning quarterback in the National Football
League at thirty seven years old, I'm sorry. I just
don't see it that way. And Pittsburgh was happy to
move on after one year. Denver did the same thing.
And then I'm listening to these guys tell me that
Russell Wilson can still be a good quarterback.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
Go ask Sean Payton and Mike Tomlin, who know a
thing or two in this football league. They've been around
the block. I just don't see how you can go
into battle like football is a game of war every Sunday.
You're gonna go in a battle with Russell Wilson or
Jamis Winston as your guy.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I don't see it. If you're going to you won't
be around here next year to make that pick. Are
you kidding?

Speaker 1 (05:50):
But if you got Shador Sanders at eight, which I
was looking at the Draft Bible, you got him at eight, right? Yeah,
there's the argument of well, how do you pass up
on like a blue ship prospect, like a hunter or
a carter when your quarterback is.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
The exception to the rule? Dave, Like, you go best
player available unless you have unless you need a quarterback.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
But what if you can get the quarterback at thirty four?
There's gotta be like a Dart or a mill Row
or somebody they really like Shuck apparently, what have you?

Speaker 3 (06:19):
So, Yeah, if you like settling for mediocrity, because that's
what those guys are, mediocre, then go for it, right
Shador Sanders has franchised altering ability. You cannot put Jackson
Dart or Taylor's shock Tyler Shuck in the same category.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
It's just not It's like, it's not a comparison. This
guy's on a whole other tier.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
And so then what about the argument of you draft
a quarterback at three for him to ride the bench
for a year. That's not helping the case for Shane
and dayball to it.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Is you gonna have a plan. You have hope.

Speaker 5 (06:56):
You have hope instead of a guy that's thirty seven
and washed up and it's been.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Recycled by three other organizations.

Speaker 5 (07:03):
You have a plan for optimism and somebody he can
learn from and ecceed. And when he's ready to take
the handoff from Russell Wilson because he's a better quarterback,
then you hand off the torch or the keys to
the Cadillac, whatever phrase you want to use. And then
you have a plan in tax and you have hope
and you have optimism, you have something to latch onto.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
I don't have any of that with Russell Wilson, none
of it.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
So yeah, no, I hear you, But.

Speaker 5 (07:32):
You're just saying here trying to tell me Russell Wilson
is a franchise quarterback.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
That's not it. It's not the key.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
He's a franchise quarterback.

Speaker 6 (07:40):
Now, I just listened to the guys on Giants dot Com.
Tell me he still has it, he can still win
games in this league. He was six and five as
the Pittsburgh starter. Justin Fields did a better job than him,
and the Giants paid them a measly ten million bucks
after they paid Daniel Jones forty million dollars. You're gonna
tell me that's the allude, that's the Zooper rating, confidence

(08:01):
that you have, and a guy that's gonna be the
one that's leading you on Sundays Like, I just don't
see how that's a plan for success.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Well, and I hear you too, because Pittsburgh sitting there
with Mason Rudolphs there starting quarterback right now, So you
would think that if.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
And guess who Mike Tomlin loves is his favorite quarterback
in this year's.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Draft Jaln Melroe. Shador Sanders interesting, but they're not gonna
trade up for him.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Well, I if the Giants take up dual Carter Jackson,
Dart is a much better fit for the Kellen Moore offense.
So if Shador doesn't go at three, I think Dark
goes before Shador at nine, and then I think Sador
can slide to Pittsburgh at twenty one. Or maybe there's
a team like the Browns I think are picking forty.

(08:49):
Maybe they try to move up in front of Pittsburgh.
But the NFL's are supplying the Man League. There's too
many teams that need a quarterback. I think there's at
least three, maybe four. Like if the Giants do pull
the trigger on Shador, Dark could go nine and Milroe
can go twenty one. You could have four quarterbacks in
the first round.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
There was a rumor going around man, like a month,
two months ago something like that, where the Giants could
get hundred at three and then trade back up and
take Shador in the late teens. And I've never I
haven't seen that pick up any more steam ever since.
But you know, could happen.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
I guess I suppose, I mean, I don't want to
get too far down.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
The road and crazy hypotheticals.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Not yeah, you know, I mean sure, is it possible.
I mean you gotta have the draft equity. Uh, but
I mean like you gotta have conviction first and foremost.
Like if Joe Shane doesn't believe in Shador Sanders, hey, fine,
but you went out there to Colorado in season. You
were down there with your whole front office in Dallas
in East West Shrine Bowl. I know Brian Daball loves him, Like,

(09:55):
maybe there's a schism, maybe Joe Shane. He's he like,
I'm sorry, I hate to use this word. When I
watch him, he just feels like a weasel to me.
I don't believe anything he says. He's in the room
telling Mara like, oh, well, the Eagles are out on
sat Quan Like, I don't believe anything he says. So

(10:15):
I have no trust in this guy. I have no
confidence that he has a vision or a plan because
he's all over the place. Listen to his press conference.
You think this guy has a plan. He doesn't know
what he's talking about. He's throwing out so so much
coach speak. He's saying a whole lot of something without
saying nothing. I mean, like I said, all I can

(10:35):
do is read the tea leaves in the body language.
He was smiling, he couldn't hold back the grand talking
about Abdul Carter.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
So that to me.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Was the most telling telltale sign of that press conference.
But uh, they were all in on Shador this whole time.
All of a sudden it's gonna change. It just seems fishy.
I don't know what's gonna happen. Maybe I could be
completely wrong, but I'll tell you this. If they don't
draft Shador Sanders, they're going to regret it. And that

(11:06):
you know, this guy, Joe Shane in four years hasn't
selected one quarterback. And the one thing I disagree with
what he said at the press conference. The value has
to be right. You got to get it right. Why
do you got to get it right? The new CBA
made it so you can move on so quickly. Look
at how fast they moved on from Josh Rosen. Look
at how fast they moved on from some of these quarterbacks.

(11:27):
If he doesn't pan out onto the next guy, but
at least you have something to be excited about to
build a franchise around, Like are you excited about Russell
Wilson being the starting quarterback, Like, I can't imagine anyone
being excited about that.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
No, I'm not excited about it. I mean, do I
think it could get any worse than it was last year?
Probably not. And like having Jamis there, if Russell shits
to bed, then at least there's like a little bit
of a hedge. I'm in the camp of kick the
quarterback to next year. If you want to take somebody
at the top of the fourth round, you know as

(12:06):
the legacy backup that you know is going to be
a backup now.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
You want to get you want to give Joe Shane
and Brian Dable another year if they don't make the playoffs,
because they're not gonna make the playoffs with Russell Wilson.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
You're gonna give these guys another year of selecting players
after this.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
I think that in the conversation they had with ownership
off the back of last season, if they were gonna
get canned, it would have been at the end of
last season. So I think that ownership would be doing
the franchise of disservice by forcing them to take a
quarterback if they're not enamored with the quarterback by comparison
to saying, look, you get two more years, and if
this isn't the year for the quarterback, fine, because then

(12:42):
they're just gonna take Chador or whoever, because then, oh well,
you got to give us two to three more years
to develop this guy. Right.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
No, No, that's not the case. You can tell right
away if the guys got it or not in two years,
you move on, like that's the problem. They waited too long.
I knew after the.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
First season Daniel Jones wasn't the answer. It took them
five years to figure it out.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Good franchises figure it out and move.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
On to the next guy.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
How are you gonna figure it out if you're not
playing him?

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Though?

Speaker 1 (13:08):
At what point are you gonna throw Shador in there?
When you have Wilson and Winston ahead of him on
the depth chart?

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Probably when you're like one, three, one and four wherever
that bye week is, you're gonna probably put your door
in there because you don't have a winning record.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
I mean, the fan on the rest at that point
would certainly dictate that, Yeah, you'd have to do something
like that. But all right, we can we can harp
on the first round picure.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, in the week, I'll be looking forward to all
the hate meal in the comments.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
So no, it's definitely gonna be coming for you, for sure.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
I know it is.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
I know it no, and I mean it's what everybody
wants to talk about. But in the flavor of Dave
t and talking more about the Day two more so
Day three guys. Yeah, I want to get into that
because you're one of the few guests that we have
on the show that knows your ship way more than
most people do. No, of course, man, So let's let's

(13:59):
talk about some of these prospects and some other areas,
the positions, the need for the giants that other folks
might be not talking about as much. So you want
to dive into some Day three prospects or late Day
two prospects that you like just off the cuff, or
you want to go by position, how you want to
get through this?

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah, well, you know, I knew we were going to
be talking about Day three guys.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
So I basically have like deep Day.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Three on the borderline undrafted priority free agent guys.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
If you want to go.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Like position by position, I can give you a couple
of guys that I that you know, kind of like
ricks guys, you know guys that I.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Would take on Day three and.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
I'll just keep it out quarterback because I have a
plan for him. And that's Taylor el Garzma.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
And I had this young man on my show. He's
a very intelligent, bright young man. I think he's the
best Canadian quarterback prospect we've ever witnessed in the history
of pro football. And remember Canadian football is older than
the National Football League. That's how good this kid is.
I've been told and I've witnessed. His IQ is Kurt

(15:05):
Warner esque. And so like, you're gonna have a transitional
period one the rules of the game, Like when you
go reverse with the American quarterback up north.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
There's a three year rule.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
They basically say it takes three years to kind of
learn all the rules and the tweaks and the changes.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
So like I'm drafting Taylor el Gerzma.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Probably round six, round seven maybe, and I'm telling him, like, yo, Taylor,
you're not playing for like the first two years.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Bro Right, You're gonna sit.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
There, You're gonna watch, You're gonna absorb, You're gonna learn
the game. You're gonna learn the playbook, you're gonna learn
the rules, and then year three, we're gonna probably start
you every game in that training camp and see where
you're at. And this is a low risk, hy reward
upside kind of value pick that's not gonna cost you
anything but a throwaway pick on day three. But like,
if any kid is gonna come in here and learn

(15:58):
the game and develop and emerge into a starting quarterback,
Taylor el Gerzman is it. And that's the guy that
I would target late in the draft and just sit
him on the bench for two or three years. I
know teams don't like to do that, but you're talking
about a late round guy. Let him go the way
of Steve mcnahir and Aaron Rodgers and let him get
groomed and developed. So Taylor el Gerzman at quarterback I

(16:20):
really like a lot.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Dylan Gabriel is another one that is pretty late on,
kind of gives me Rock Party vibes. It was a
similar kind of thing with Rock Party when he was
coming out where you know, the size was called in
the question, but productive in the collegiate program and all that.
I think he's another guy that if you want to
take a stab at somebody late on day three wouldn't

(16:43):
be the worst guy in the world. But I don't
know if you know something about Gabriel that I don't know.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
No, you know, I watched him very early on at UCF.
I got to scout him in person, and he could
definitely sling it. I do have an issue with the
signs at five foot eleven. That bothers me. We're of
a traditional old school scout in that way. So, but
it's not an end to all be all for me.
Like nobody's faced more live bullets. So when you talk
about like Chase Daniel hung out in the league for

(17:11):
a long time because he just was experienced, He was knowledgeable,
he had learned so many different offenses, Like you know, Dylan,
Gabriel could just kind of hang out for a long time,
I think, and just be that dude.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Right.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
So not as talented as.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Bo Nicks, but coming out of that system, same kind
of experience a lot of games started.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know, I have him as my twelfth greer.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
I have him actually right behind Taylor l Gerzmath So
there you go, six and seven.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yep. I figured that they'd be pretty close on the
ranking sport, which is why I brought him up. But
all right, enough about the fucking quarterbacks. We're tack running
back one of the deepest positions in the draft this year.
Some later round guys that like Raheem Sanders out of
South Carolina, Marcus Yarns at a Dell, where Phil Maffa

(18:00):
at a Clemson, A big bruiser type that I don't
think anybody's really been talking about too much. Who are
some of the running backs you like late Day three?

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, well, Phil Maffa has been kind of like out
of sight, out of mind. I think he had a
little injury he was dealing with. But we talk about
size two hundred and thirty four pounds explosion. I like
it between the tackles. Runner Yarns really impressed me at
the Senior Bowl. He's got some some burst there, some
sneaky burst, and he's also a great pass catcher. His

(18:31):
ability to receive, I think like he could be a
Danny Woodhead type of player that Marcus Yarns out of Delaware, and.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
I wouldn't be surprised. Like the Patriots were.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
Sniffing around him pretty good, you know, right there in
the New England area, and I do think the local
teams in the Northeast are very well aware of Marcus Yarns,
you know, day three, Like I think RJ. Harvey is
going to go Day three just because of the lack
of size. He's a home run hitter with elite level speed,
which is really what you're looking for on Day three

(19:02):
the draft.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
A home run hitter that could take it the distance
anytime he touches the ball.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
But I really want to talk about Jacoory krossky Merit
because you know, I got a chance to see him
at the Hula Bowl and I was so impressed, and
then I was so excited and happy for him when
he got called up to the East West Shrine Bowl
and all he did was go up there and win
the Shrine Bowl game MVP Honers. This guy transferred, I
think it was from Nevada, played the first game of

(19:27):
the season, ran into some eligibility issues, so he sat
out the entire year, and like I slapped the fourth
round grade on him, he probably go later than that.
But I think Jacorey krossky Merrit's going to outplay a
lot of people drafted ahead of him. And then Nathan
Carter's a guy you know, I probably went to over
two or three dozen Yukon practices while Nathan Carter was there.

(19:49):
He wounded up finishing at Michigan State. He had one
of the best pro day workouts of any running back
in the draft. He put his measurables up there with anybody.
But what stands out to me is New York City
tough kid again between the tackles, yards after contact, gets
those short yardage when you need it. So like, he's

(20:09):
probably not gonna get drafted, right Nathan Carter. I don't
see him getting drafted, but he helped those guys that
once you get him into the facility, he's going to
be very hard to part ways with.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, Crosskey merrit double transfer from New Mexico and Alabama State,
and yeah, close enough about it. New Mexican.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
Too many names, too many schools, too many transfers.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Particularly when you get down this deep, it's so hard
to be I like try to remember it based off
of like color of the uniform or something like that,
but even still, yeah, you get close half the time.
But yeah, no, he's kind of similar to the flavor
of a cam skataboo. Just a tenacious runner does not
go down at first contact. They did a piece on

(20:53):
him yesterday on one of the NFL Network shows, might
have been pathed to the Draft or something like that,
where they were like, we finally got tape on this
kid that we could show because there just hasn't been
that much talk about him. But yeah, he's He's definitely
a guy late day three that I think people should
be talking a hell of a lot more about. So

(21:13):
then let's keep rolling through a wide receiver a lot
of big body guys, you know, towards the tail end
of things like the kids that arkansaw Armstrong. Tesla's probably
gonna go a bit higher than what we're talking about. Thornton,
Dante Thornton. You got him in your top one hundred.

(21:34):
I was seeing, Yeah, Bru McCoy, Will Sheppard from Colorado,
one of the guys from Colorado not being talked about
enough in my opinion. Who are some of the later
wide receivers that you like this year?

Speaker 3 (21:45):
Well, you know, I think it is gonna be what's
your flavor? I like this kid, Tesla. I mean he
was really underutilized at Arkansas, And you mentioned Armstrong, who
really I think got more of the Lion's share of
targets but they when you saw Tesla at the All
Star circuit and he was a scatterbug man, he's got
some juice to him. He tested through the roof.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
I mean, I really like what this kid brings to
the table.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
You know, he's one of these few prospects where you
know he's gonna go on and be a better pro
than he was a collegiate player, if that makes sense
to you. But I think he's a Day three guy.
In fact, he's the first guy I have on my
Day three guys that I like so great minds thinking like.
I also like Elijah Badger out of Florida, who I

(22:31):
did see at one of the All Star Games.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
I think it was the Hula Bowl.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Six foot one and a half, two hundred pounds. But
he's one of the best return men in this year's draft,
and I don't think he gets mentioned enough because Chamir Dick,
who was also at the Hula Bowl, he got called
up to the Senior Bowl. Both of those and both
of those guys impressed me down in Orlando at the
Hula Bowl, they were both flying. But Badger, like, when

(22:56):
you go back and watch his return ability, I think
that's a guy who has make it kind of traits
because of the special teams experience. So I don't know
if he gets drafted, but he would definitely be one
of my top targets in the undrafted free agency process.
And Jacoory Brooks I think did himself no favors with
his testing. I know he ran a horrible I think

(23:19):
it was a four six eight forty one five six
ten yard split. I mean thirty inch vertical, nine to
eight broad. You look at it, you say, is this
offensive line numbers? But I'm telling you I saw something.
I was down there in August in training camp at Louisville.
I saw him again at the East West Shrine Bowl.
His route running technique, he's he's solid man. He knows

(23:41):
how to get open. So I wouldn't be all out
at four six eight, But because this man may go
undrafted again, these are the kind of guys that I
want to target because he's very productive at Louisville.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
There were some.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Rumors about him being a diva at Alabama. I spoke
to three or four coaches Louisville. That's it, that's not
the case. And you know Jacorey Brooks, I just I
think he's going to be a victim of a poor
forty yard dash.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
But man, this guy, you talk about length, you talk
about agility, I mean the way he moves, he's so fluid.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
It just doesn't match up. I don't know what happened,
like if he had a hamstring or something occurred. But
like when I watched the film and I see the
forty like he's a he's a smooth mover on film. Man,
so Ja Cory Brooks out of Louisville is a guy
that I really like.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
And uh, this guy I know is not getting drafted.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
But I was down there at the Tropical Bowl and
Jordan Bly, he's the nephew I believe with dre Bly,
the son, the uncles on.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
He's related to dre Bly. All he did all week
long was catch touchdowns. I mean he was unguardable.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
Now he's five foot nine, right, Uh, he's not going
to have the measure. He's five foot nine, one seventy
soaking wet. Uh didn't really, we have many measurables. At
his pro day, did the vertical jump, I got thirty
six and a half inches.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Didn't do it. I don't know why he didn't do
the other testing.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
But I can tell you nobody could cover this kid
down at the Tropical Bowl. I think he's had like
three touchdowns in the Tropical Bowl game. But even during
the one on ones during the week, like, he's just
slippery as soap. He's got elusiveness, he's got some wiggle
and Jordan bly like, he'll probably wind up in the UFL.
But I would kick the tires again. Undrafted free agent,

(25:27):
bring him into camp. Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle,
you'll find a slot weapon. This guy knows how to
get open and he's fast.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
A transfer from Old Dominion, which giants taking Trey Hawkins
out of that program. Maybe they got some eyes on
that kid since they they're monitoring that few years back.
So yeah, definitely an interesting prospect to look at. And
that's why we want to have you on Rick, because
you're you're so deep in the weeds, man, and nobody
talks about people deep this deep in the weeds, you know,

(25:57):
but knew you'd be the guy to do it, So
appreciate for that. But then let's keep it moving here
to tight end, you know, tight end. I think it's
super loaded at the top. I'm a huge Tyler Warren
guy in Loveland, obviously solid prospect as well. I really
love Elijah Royo. The Giants had him in for a visit.

(26:19):
Yes he can get past the injury concerns around Royo.
Freak athlete, but you know the Luke Laches of the
world that Jake brings stools of the world. Who are
some of the tight ends that you like later?

Speaker 3 (26:34):
Well, I'm a big fan of the tight end class.
It's one of my favorite positions in this year's draft.
And I like what Theo Johnson did. I think he
was a sixth round pick last year for the Giants,
and really I thought he showed some great promise there.
But I wouldn't be surprised if they go digging in
the crates day three, bringing another tight end body and.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Luke Lache out of Iowa.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
As a guy before his ACL injury, I had him
as a potential first round pick. I like the kid
on film. He can block, he can catch. I mean,
what's not to like about him. The forty yard dash
four to seven seven isn't great, but the shuttle times
are good four to one, six seven to one, eight
thirty five inch ver ten foot broad. He's an athlete
and He's got size at six foot five almost six

(27:15):
foot six, two hundred and fifty pounds. You talk about
some of the tight ends that Iowa has put out
in years past. I think Luke Lache is going to
outplay a lot of the tight ends that get drafted
ahead of him. And because of the medical in the
injury history, you can get him on day three. You
talk about value, that's one of the ultimate premium value
picks in this year's draft. How about just Jackson Hawes

(27:37):
is a mean, mugg and mauler. He's essentially just a
six offensive lineman because he's not going to bring much
in the passing attack. But at six foot four and
a half two hundred and fifty pounds, Uh, this guy
is just built like a brick And I just love
the tenacity. I just love the violence that he plays with.
And he's the best blocking tight end in my opinion

(27:58):
in this year's draft.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Again, you can have him late late day three, why not?

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Uh? And he'd be a great compliment to the man
we just mentioned in THEO Johnson and one one other guy.
I want to give to my local brethren here, and
you know, correct me if I'm wrong here, Dave but
I was under the impression t is the college in
New Jersey, and I mentioned the tight end from TCNJ
on one of my other shows, Thomas Burke, and I

(28:25):
got all kinds of comments that it's the Trenton.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
College of New Jersey. So maybe you can help me out.
Maybe I'll listen.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
It's the college in New Jersey. I don't know who
the hell is telling you that.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
I had several comments talking about it's the Trenton College
of New Jersey, so maybe there's some history there. Maybe
I always thought it was the college in New Jersey because, Uh,
our guy Donnie, one of the offensive line coach, about
five or six years ago, passed away on the on
the on the Jersey Parkway.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Uh going to practice. So anyway, there's a.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Kid there at the Tropical b by the name of
Thomas Burks. I can tell you NFL teams were sniffing
around this kid. There's some legit interest on Thomas Burks,
who comes in at six foot four, two hundred and
forty seven.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Pounds, and again, he just made plays all week long.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
He stood out, he looked the party, played the part,
and I was a little bit embarrassed to be honest
with you, because I had NFL scouts coming up to me.
They know I'm the Jersey guy. They wanted the four
to one one on Thomas Burke. I didn't have it, Dave.
I felt so embarrassed, but I learned about him real quickly.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
I'm a big fan. Again. I don't think. I don't
buy for a second that he's getting drafted.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
But man, when I tell you this kid again, you
look for guys that have naked traits.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
He's a local kid.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
I fully expect him to be in Giants rookie mini
camp after the draft. Thomas Burke, remember the name TCI
the College of New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
It's not even in Trenton at school, is it? I
don't even know, But yeah, no, I always knew CC
and Jays the College of New Jersey, so that would
be news to me. But you learn something new every day, right.
I saw le Latu's brother is a tight end prospect
in this draft. I didn't realize that Khaliki Latu Washington,
huge guy, six seven two and fifty two hundred and

(30:13):
sixty pounds. Uh not you know, any sort of a threat.
But another guy that you know could be a camp
body for sure, but interesting.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Nonetheless, Casey Kelly out of East Carolina is another one.
He's related to Chad Kelly and Jim Kelly.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Oh cool, I didn't know about that.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, he's number thirty five on the tight end big board.
Khaliki Laptu is number thirty seven right now on the.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Back you go. I know you know these guys, man,
which is why I love shatting with you. But all right,
let's keep it moving. We still got a lot to cover.
All offensive tackle is a position where I think get
you know, definitely more bulky at the top end of
the draft by comparison to the back half. Who are

(30:58):
some of the the off offensive tackles you like? I mean,
I'm a huge tray Wedwig guy. Logan Brown is the
guy who I think he's more top of Day three
now by comparison to where he might have started a
couple of months ago in this process. Dalton Cooper's a
guy I like Jack Nelson a pool. Who are some

(31:19):
of the names that you have on your list?

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, well, definitely stood out to me at the East
West Shrine Bowl.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
He's got some great size.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
I think he could be a swing tackle or compete
for a right tackle position. Trey Way Dig out of
Indiana was a guy. He just caught my attention in
the warm ups. You know a lot of scouts are
bullshitting during the warm ups and chit chat, and I'm
over here seeing who's jumping, who's bending, who's twitching, who's torquing,
who's tweaking. Trey Way Digg, he caught my attention in

(31:50):
the warm ups. Man, he was like coming up off
the ground and stretching like the old line stretching. Like
I'm into stretching. When it comes to my offensive lineman,
I want to see them. I want to see them reach.
I want to see their flexibility. It's all in the
waist and the knees and the ankles when it comes
to offensive lineman. Trey Wade did as that. You mentioned
Dalton Cooper again, Number one on my list, my favorite.

(32:13):
I mean, I have him listed as an offensive tackle.
How this guy, I mean, he's one of my highest
rated non combine invites. How this guy didn't get invited
to the combine is beyond my belief.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
He plays all five.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
Offensive line positions, and you know he started at time.
He started at every position quite frankly, and I have
him as the thirteenth overall. I slapped a fourth round
grade on him. I don't know if he even gets drafted,
which is crazy to me, but a Dalton Cooper is
a guy that stood out to me just from the technique,
the bend, the fundamentals, the hand placement, the versatility. Like

(32:51):
Dalton Cooper is a day three gem in my book.
One other tackle who caught my attention who's more of
a developmental prospect is Brandon Crenshaw Dick out of Florida.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
He's just the.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Mammoth of a human being and he's like almost six
foot eight and I was so surprised by the way
he was able to move.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
He's raw.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
I just talked about Dalton Cooper the technician, Well, Brandon
Crenshaw Dixon's the exact opposite. They say he's so raw,
he's got zero technique, he needs a lot of coaching,
but he's got signs, he's got manned, he's got tools
to work with.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
And you know, on day three, that's what you want.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
You want to have a guy in the pipeline that
you're developing moving over to offensive guard.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
You know, a guy that stood out to me in my.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
Preparation for the All Star circuit was Garrett Dillinger out
of LSU on tape another Again, like when you get
to day three, I value the guys who can play
all five positions, and Garrett Dillinger has proved that he
can do that. I also believe he has a wrestling background,
which I also appreciate in h Garrett Dillinger. So he's

(33:55):
been hurt, injured. Don't think he tested leading up to
the draft. So again, like those guys are volatile when
it comes to their draft stock, you don't know where
they're going to go. I have no problem rounds four
through seven with a Garrett Dillinger and two more guys
one I like as a guard in Nast Jones.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Out of Texas State. I call them Nasty Nash Jones
because like, again, the technique isn't there.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Coming from the small school fcs, You're not going to
see the fundamentals that you want.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
But I like me some nasty in the trenches.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
And when you got a chip on your shoulder and
you play with tenacity and your ragdaland guys and just
toss them around, that's what you say.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
You play through the whistle. You know, those are guys
I just want on my team.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
And nasty nast Jones out of Texas State who played
for my guy GJ.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Kinney for a brief while.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
I like what he brings to the table man, and
I'm happy to see that people are finally giving him
the love that he deserves. And Thomas Perry out of
Middlebury yourself, Yeah, I saw you dine in the spotlight
on the Middlebury helmet. He was standing out to me
in Dallas at the East West Shrine Bowl. He just
kept catching your attention.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
You know, we saw it.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
We had to start giving out like neck braces. I
call it like to all the scouts because Thomas Perry
out of Middlebury was just had your head on a swivel, like,
who's that guy?

Speaker 2 (35:18):
What's oh man? He just knocked that power fire fool
on the ground.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Oh he has him looking up in the sky like
a turtle. Thomas Perry out of Middlebury. I have him
as the sixth rated center in this year's draft. I
think this guy might come into the league and eventually
start at center or guard. He's got that interior flexibility
D three product.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
I love it, can't get enough of it.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Quite frankly, Thomas the Tank. Love him a lot. He's
forty minutes south of me in Middlebury. For those of
you who don't know, I'm up in Vermont for the
Scouts that it might be trailblazing through Middlebury going forward.
Costello's Market great place to get an Italian sandwich if
you're if you're in the area.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
But I'm gonna put that on my list right now.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Definitely a good spot. But yeah, dude, I think interior
offensive line is so deep in this class. Some of
the other guys that I like, Luke Newman out of
Michigan State, you know, you're a big Drew Kendall guy,
h Cooper, Mays, Tyler Cooper, Hayden Connor, Jack Connelly. Willie

(36:22):
Lampkin is one that you know, I'm a purest when
it comes to the size, weight, speed, all that. But
you know another talking about wrestling background, he's got it.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Well, Listen, I've seen this guy give up nearly a
foot to the only walker at the Senior Boo O Wall.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
This guy rep after rep.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
So I mean, I'm not gonna like I'm not going
to be the one to put it past Willie Lampkin.
The five ten center I'm not going to put it
past them, but I will say you mentioned one guy.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Man I really had high on my list that you
just mentioned.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
A Tyler Cooper Cooper Mays.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, Cooper Mays, yep.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
I mean this guy again, he's been out of sight,
out of mind, like he didn't have an All Star
Game invite.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
I don't think he tested. But uh, this guy had
big time pedigree. And Hayden Connor.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Out of Texas, Yep, this guy is a forgotten man,
like the film is right.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, Hayden Connor out of Texas. It's dude.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
I mean, you're gonna find some quality like Josh Friar
out of Ohio State. Nobody even talks about him. There
there there is some quality.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Jack Conley out of Boston College was a well coached guy.
I have him right there with Luke Newman who you
mentioned out of Michigan State, Tyler Cooper, all those guys.
JJ Lippi out of Northern Illinois is another guy that
caught our attention on the scouting trails.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
He's at six.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Foot five three oh eight thirty three and a half
inch arms and he's just a big refrigerator looking mofa
out of Northern.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Illinois that I saw down.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
You know, that's why you got to go to the
Hula Bowl, the Tropical Bowl. You gotta kind of stack these.
Day three is where you make your money in the draft,
the day three undrafted free age. I mean, any any
fool can pick the guys on day one and day two.
The real front officers make their money on day three.
And that's why you got to be out there in
the trenches man getting a feel, like getting eyes, the movement,

(38:24):
the body frame, the you know, every like there's a
lot of things you can't pick up on the film,
like when you're in person, the physique, the cut, the
muscle tone, the definition, the scout feedback that you get
the coaches in put like. There's just so much value
to being out there, and that's and that's where you
really find a way. Like when we stack this board,

(38:49):
I believe it's been the most accurate big board over
the last twenty three years. Nobody's been as more accurate
because every guy on our big board, I can almost
guarantee a ninety five percent of these eyes will be
within one or two rounds of the projection that we
gave him.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
That's what history tells.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Us one guy, since we're both Italian. One of the
most Italian names I've seen, Torricelli Simpkins.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, who's not Italian.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
By the way, he gets a name with that money bell.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
But man I saw that, I'm like, look at that
pies not. I started digging into him. I'm like, wait
a minute, what's going on here?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
But definitely caught my attention. He's on the All Name
team for sure.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Absolutely, he's got a table reserve that Costello's waiting for him.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, right, exactly. All right, Well, we'll keep it moving
here cause defensive line, we've got so much to comb
through at this position, being one of the deepest in
the draft, let's start with the defensive tackles. I mean, again,
super deep. Some of the names that I really like,
Cam Horsley. If we want to keep talking about Boston College,

(39:58):
vardar Rizziata uns See Harrison Hunt, Zeke Biggers, you know,
talk about gigantic Florida prospects, Desmond Watson, who I'm fifty
to fifty on, but just you need somebody as a
run stuff or he's clogged in the middle there. Riley
Mills is the guy who's kind of been all over
the rankings boards. And then Sean Martin at West Virginia.

(40:22):
I don't know why he's not being talked about higher
than he is, but he seems to be pegged as
more of like a late day three guy. Who are
some of the defensive tackles you like this year?

Speaker 4 (40:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (40:30):
I like Sewan Martin on film too.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
He's got incredible lent, thirty five inch arms, eighty five
inch wingspan, incredible production, great physique. You're right, I think
he's gonna go on day three. Same thing like Riley Mills.
It's it's tough to project these guys with the injury.
Like Riley Mills was probably a projected top one hundred guy,

(40:52):
right and then he got hurt, So like, I don't
know where he goes. I have a I have him
twenty seven because of the medical I think it was
a medical recall to Indianapolis. So you don't know how
those things are going to pan out. A couple guys
that I have, like I think Ty Robinson might actually
slide down today three.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
I don't know. I think he's on the borderline out
of Nebraska.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Just yeah, I love Tyrobins. He seemed like he's kind
of been climbing.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, I think people are ye like.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Sixth round and now I'm starting to see him like
fourth pretty consistently. So yeah, I mean, what's not to
like about ty Robinson?

Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yeah, I mean I have I have a fourth round
grade on him. But I think, you know, after I
did the book, the defensive tackles were tough, Dave, because
they're so deep, they're so it's I mean it's stacked,
and I think, like, I think I undervalued Ty Robinson.
I mean, six foot five, two eighty eight, this guy

(41:51):
ran a four to eight three yeap in half inch.
I mean, this guy's got incredible athleticism and versatility. You
know the other guy that I I dinged him a
little bit for his size, but man, he really jumped
off at the Senior Bowl.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
And then I went back and watched this film. I
loved it.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
But he's six foot one and seventy eight inches, three
hundred and three pounds. This Norman Lot, Omar Norman Lot
from Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
He's just explosive. Out of his stands. He stays low.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
He's got great hands, violent hands, Uh, NonStop motor like.
Omar Norman Lot doesn't stop coming at you. And I
have I have a fifth round grade on him, and
I think he's I think he I think he's a
Day two pick.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I do.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah. No, He's got a hell of a pass rush
to him, and you know, makes me think of like
the Poona Fords, you know when they come out and
they're short like that. Anias Peebles is another one this year.
Oh yeah, guy, yeah, similar, you know he's saw it off.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
But man, he's a great football player.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Man.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah, I love me some Peebles, you know. CJ.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
West, I think, is another guy who's finally getting some
love out of Indiana. He was there at the East
West Shrine Bowl and again undersized at six foot one
three sixteen. But like Day three, all these guys are
gonna have warts, and you try to find guys like
he's got borderline top tier athleticism.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
CJ.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
West, Right, And those are the characteristics I want to
work with.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Keyante Hamilton. Okay, this guy.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Got a reject grade on the Blessedo and national had
a held the season.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
He's a six or seventh year senior out of Rutgers.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
He's got a great agent and Joe Linta, who also
reps Joe Flacco. But he was down at the Hula Bowl.
He got a call up, I think to the Shrine
Bowl because of this performance. He was just stacking and
shedding and the way he gets off of blocks. Now
he's got short arm's got the alligator arms, but he's
got the technique, the savvy. You know, Rutgers is gonna

(44:04):
have well coached players and they they just make a
living off of these undrafted priority free agents that are
just well coached. Keyante Hamilton's that guy. And I'm gonna
give you another local guy who didn't make the draft
bible and I'm and I'm pissed off.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
You know, you just you run out of time, guys, Yeah,
you know. I mean at a.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Certain point you just got a part ways and you
run out of time. But Arnold Young got a Montclair State.
This is the best player since Sam Mills to come
out of mont And to this day, Sam Mills is
still the only player in Montclair State history that has
a number retired up there. I don't want to say
in the rafters, it's just painted on in the press

(44:45):
box starings.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
That it's not a big venue there at MONTCLAIRER State.
But I'm telling you, like this guy has a legit shot.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Arnold Young six foot three and a half two hundred
and eighty two pounds. I got a chance to see
him at the Tropical Bowl. He won every single one
on one rep. He did very well in the game.
He can he can slide down and into these gaps
with catlike quickness. But Arnold Young got to Montclair State, like,

(45:15):
he will definitely be in the Giants rookie camp. And
I'll tell you what, he's got a chance.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
To make that practice squad.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
What do you got on all these Georgia kids. Uh,
there's Warren Brinson. You know, you got the stack House
and the Ingram's Dawkins solid program. These guys kind of
get lost in the shuffle, but there seems to be
some good value coming out of that program. On the
day three this year, that's.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
Right, because you know Georgia, as you know, Dave uses
the rotation, I mean rotations, so like the stats don't
jump off the page at you. But man, these guys
are built like I mean, these are the first dudes
off the bus, like you know, the body types.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
I mean, there's a reason why they landed at Georgia, right.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Yeah, And even if you're a backup, you know, a
backup at Georgia is better than some of these other starters.
So like, I have all these guys in that, you know, Brentson,
I have at twenty three. Let's see stack House, who
actually was the highest rated of them all coming into
the season. I mean, I think he's just a two
down player, right, Like, I don't know how much of

(46:26):
these two down, pure nose tackle players, Like how much
are teams valuing these guys, But you talk about size
and girth, the ability to swallow double teams and eat space,
and these are stack House, Like, there's gonna be a
home for him. He's not gonna be for everybody, but
there's always gonna be a need for a.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Guy like that.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
But they all, they all stood out to me on
the All Star circuit. So yeah, I got love for
the Georgia guys. And they're gonna go They're gonna go early,
they're gonna go often, they're gonna go late.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
I mean always loaded every year.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
They just reload year after year.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
And one guy I have here right below Warren bent Brinson.
I'm looking at Jordan Phillips.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Yeah, Maryland, and.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
He was probably arguably the best player at the East
West Shrine Bowl. And then he ran a four to
six y five short shuttle and eight one nine three cone,
and I start questioning.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
The agility.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
You know, he played out of position at Maryland. He
was he was playing the zero in one at Maryland,
and and really when he got to the Shrine Bowl,
he had an opportunity to play more three tech and
show his past rushing skills, something he didn't do this
past year at Maryland. So I'm thoroughly conflicted on Jordan
Phillips because that's where you get into the jambalaya, where

(47:53):
you know he played out of position in film his
senior year, did great at the All Star Game, and
then like tested very poorly.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Great young man.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
I had a chance to talk to his mom for
about fifteen minutes after practice one day. Comes from a
great family. So I love the character, love the kid,
love the background. You know, you're just at six foot
one and a half three twelve, subpar testing, lack of production,
out of scheme. Like that's a guy who just roll
the dice. I got a round sixth grade on it.

(48:25):
You just roll the dice and hope, hope it comes up.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Yatzi yep, all right, we'll keep moving along to defensive
end edge over here, another deep position in this year's draft.
Tyler Batty is the guy I really like. JJ Weaver,
Ethan Down's Johnny Walker Blue Label. There's a lot of

(48:52):
guys to like Deren Aaron Day three. Who do you
like at that position?

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Well, you know, tight end I said was my favorite
position on offense.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
I think the edge rusher group is probably my favorite
position on defense.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
I mean there is depth for days. Yep, you know,
there's so much depth here. I'll start off with Jow Joiner.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
I mean, this guy coming off the edge, he's just
got size at six foot four, two hundred and sixty
one pounds, he's got speed.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
He timed in at four to six, soh.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
He's got get off, he's got explosiveness, he's got heavy hands,
and he's still developing. Like I think the best football
is yet to come for a Jaw Joiner.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
The light bulb hasn't fully turned on. He hasn't quite
put it all together. But when you talk about the
combination of.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Size, length, speed, physicality, I like the whole package of
job Joyner. And again he's probably not gonna do much
impact this rookie season. But this is a guy man
you just kind of want to have on the back burner,
develop those skills and try to bring it out. You know,

(50:00):
another guy who I really liked at Duke and then
you know he became more of a two down player
at Notre Dame.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Rj Obin played more run downs this year.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
But if you go back to his Duke film and
also at the Senior Bowl, like he showed a pass
rush repertoire. So I think this is a guy that's
a little bit lean. Six foot three, two point fifty five.
He's got a lean frame, he's got good length, and
he's got experience.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
He's very smart.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Obviously starting off at Duke, didn't need to go to
Notre Dame. In fact, he actually declared for the draft
and had a Senior Bowl invite last year and then winded.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Up going back to Notre Dame.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
So I think he's a guy would roll the dice
on BJ Green out of Colorado. I mean, Warren Sapp
does not stop raving about this kid. He was another
one of those Hula Bowl guys, undersized, very undersized.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
He's going to be an undrafted free agent most likely.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
He came in at two hundred and sixty pounds. But
he's going to be a project. You got to bow
him up. There's tools to work with there, and he's
got the technique, he's got the tenacity, he's got the
get off like he did his thing, the same thing
with Willie Lampkin.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Like I'm not going to put it passed.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
BJ Green because I liked what I saw. And also,
Dylan Black out of Temple is a guy. You know,
nobody's really seen much of him. He wasn't at any
of the All Star Games, he wasn't at the Combine.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
But you talk about pedigree.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
He began at Florida, ran into some academic issues, wasn't
eligible for the.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
First four games.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
I believe they're at Temple, but I mean I saw
him up closer in person. He's got he's got like
you talk about Saquon Barkley type of thighs.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
This guy's got powerhouse thighs. He's thickly built in the
lower body. He's got strength, he's got quickness. I like
this Dwan Black and he you know, he comes from nothing.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
I like guys that come from the inner city that
just need it right, Like give me.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
That eye all day long.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
And one other guy I want to talk about a
Steve Linton at a Baylor because he again was just
one of those guys at the All Star circuit at
six foot three and six eight inches thirty four and
a half inch arms, eighty two inch wingspan, I mean
ten foot.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Four broad thirty thirty two.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
And a half inch VERT like the size, the explosiveness
he was just he only six foot four, he just
looked bigger.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
I like the tools.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
I like the imposing presence, like you just notice when
he's on the field. You got to count for a
guy like that. I have him right there neck and
neck with your guy.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Ritzy the.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Egyptian magician Ahmad Hassan from Boise State Garment hand off
another guy out of Baylor who is like a light switch.
When he wants to be good, he can be Tyler Baddie,
Johnny Walker.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
They're all right there, green label, No, we got the
blue label.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
There's all kinds of talents, and these are guys like
we're talking about my twenty six to thirty six.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Ranked edge rushers. I mean, this is a deep in talent.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
What a deep I mean, we didn't even talk about
a guy like David Walker out of Central Arkansas, all right,
Ashton Jillatti out of Louisville, Tyler Barron out of Miami.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
I mean, even a.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Guy like Josiah Stuart who comes in short of the
measurables out of Michigan.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Great production.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Like these guys are all going to be hanging Ke
Robinson out of Alabama with the injury. I mean, these
guys are all just going to be hanging out for
the for the taken on day three, It's going to
be exciting to see how this big board plays out.
There's there's probably like thirty edge rushers with a draftable grade.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Some other undrafted free agent names that are kind of
the top of my list, Deontay Craig out to Iowa,
Desmond Evans out of North Carolina, Van Fillinger out of Utah.
We've been talking a lot of Texas State, Stephen Parker
out of Texas State. And then, if we really want
to dig deep, Fred Stokes from Prairie View A and

(54:18):
M six six two fifty five. Uh, certainly looks the
part to me.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Love it, love it. I'm gonna go watch me some
Fred Stokes right after.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
You've been stumping me on quite a few. Man, I'm
keeping notes too. We gotta gotta do the the midnight
oil this last week. Some of these undrafted free agent names,
you know, all right? Cool? So then inside linebacker is
a sneaky need in my opinion for the Giants. You know,
Bobby Ocaaca. You know they got Mike andh mcfatt, and

(54:51):
they drafted Darius Mussau out of U c. L A
last year. They're real high in Deontay Johnson, who can't
stay healthy. There's some good options there day one, day two,
but there's also quite a lot of opportunity later on
day three. I like the Doomus Johnson kid quite a bit,
the Higgins guy at IOWA. I saw you have Teddy

(55:14):
Buchanan in your top one hundred, and I feel like
most of the lists I've seen on him, he's a
Day three prospect, the Dolax of the world coming in
and just lighting stuff up. He's been gaining some steam.
But yeah, there's quite a few more names that I
could roll through at that position. I think there's some
quality depth for us there. But who are some of

(55:35):
the names you like?

Speaker 3 (55:37):
Yeah, nobody really knows what these linebackers, you know, true
off ball linebackers. We may not see one in the
first round, right, so that pushes everybody down the board.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
But you're right. I got a second round grade on
Teddy A. Buchanan. He's my number three guy I have.
I had Jalen Walker as an off ball linebacker.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
I think he's going to be selected as an edge,
So technically I have Jehad Campbell and then ted the Cannon.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
You know.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
I like the kid out of Kentucky, who you mentioned,
Demetrius Knight out of South Carolina.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
I have him as a top one hundred guy.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
But a little bit further down, Okay, you mentioned Sean Dolac.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
I mean this guy. I mean, is there a more
fun watch than this out base? Like this guy.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
This guy's catching the interceptions to the house, pick six
running through like this guy, zigging and zagging through the
opposing offense on pick six interception runs like there's no tomorrow.
Didn't get a combine invite. Only did was like tripping
one hundred tackles every freaking year. Uh tested four to

(56:42):
sixty three, ran twenty five bench press reps, thirty five
and a half.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Inch for ten foot one broad.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
The shuttle times are great four to two, two six,
nine to three out of Buffalo. Khalil Mack once upon
a time came out of Buffalo, And I don't know
if Sean Dolac gets drafted. I got a six ground
grade on him. But that's a guy I want on
my team all day long. Same with Jack Kaiser. You
know this could gets all day long. I mean, what's

(57:10):
not to like. He's a little stiff in the hips,
he's a little bit slow, but he compensates with the intangibles.
The guy has over six hundred, nearly seven hundred special
teams career snaps. But like what really stood out to
me at the Senior Bowl, he was arguably like the
best linebacker in pass coverage that I saw all week long.

(57:30):
All he did was make plays against the pass and
deflect passes and batdown balls. I mean, Jack Kaiser is
a guy. I think this guy is.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
A ten year pro. He's going to go Day three.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
He's gonna be a special teams dynamo, and he's one
of those guys that coaches.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
I wish I had fifty three. Jack Kaiser's like, he's
that kind of mental makeup. I love him.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Yeah, A lot of really strong defense there all the
way to a national championships. Yeah. Love Jack Kaiser.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
And then uh like Chandler Martin just get out of
Memphis again, same agent as Keyante Hamilton. He finds these
reject grades. Chandler Martin was a blessed o national reject
and then all he did, like at the East West
Shrine Bowl, he had to play it a week interception,
big time game performance.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Again.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
I don't I don't think Chandler Martin gets drafted. These
five foot eleven and seven eighths two hundred and twenty
nine pounds, but he ran a four or five four
forty thirty seven inch.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Vert ten six broad.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
I mean, this guy's athletic as hell and he just
shows up around the football. When you got a true
nose for the football, you're athletic as hell. You're a
little bit under size, so I know you got your
bringing a massive chip on your shoulder. Give me that
guy as an undrafted free agent, right, and how about
one more for you. You know Jacob Dobbs, who I've
been tracking since his days at Holy Cross, finished at

(58:55):
James Madison. Now he won't get drafted because of the
medical It's there's a laundry list of medical but he
reminds me so much of Tyler Mattackavis and what you know,
this is what like again, you're talking about seventh round
on drafted free agent flyer, but a guy who's gonna
hang out because he's just smart. He's a tackle machine.

(59:17):
Sideline to sideline. I spoke to the coaching staff down
there at James Madison, the former coach at holy Cross.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
He brought He brought.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Jacob Dobbs with him and he's like, yeah, Rick, this
is the first dude in the building, the last guy
to leave.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
All his teammates love him. He's got a contagious attitude,
and like, that's.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
What I want from a bottom of the roster guy
who's going to play special teams, is going to fill
in as a backup and just be a contagious personality. Right,
He's going to raise the level of competition and practice
every day. He's a guy that you hate to play against.
You love to have him on your team. Jacob Dobbs
out of James Madison, man, sign me up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
And one of the other guys, well, first off, I
saw you got Eugenis Sante out of Auburn in your
top seventy five, which another guy who's kind of undersized,
but yeah, what a what a special talent. Him and
Jeffrey Bossa really ran the All Star circuit down.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Well, I'll tell you what, Dave like, what's great about
especially the senior ball is you got all these alpha
dogs yep, put together right, yep, and then it's great.
You always I always like to keep an eye on,
like who's the alpha dog of the alpha dogs, who's
the guy that everybody looks up to?

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Because these are all Americans.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
These are all conference selections, these are multiple these are stars,
these are the All Stars, right, But like Eugena Sante
was that dog that everybody looked up to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
He grabbed the unit. He everybody looked to him like
what was he going to say? What was he going
to do?

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
He was barking out the orders, he was making big plays,
he was letting you know about it. And you might
remember his older brother Larry Asante was a pretty good
player too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Absolutely So, moving on, I think we're gonna skip safety
just because I don't think the Giants are really looking
at any safeties this year. But cornerback and in the
press of today, Joe Shane alluded to cornerback being a
pretty deep position in the draft this year, and they
probably won't prioritize it too high. As much as I'm

(01:01:23):
concerned about that position. When you got a guy you
sign a free agency coming off of a broken leg
and pulse in a debo. You got Deontay Banks, who's
kind of wishy washing. Who knows how that's gonna pan
out there, But there is some quality depth at the
cornerback position. I know you're higher on some of these guys,
like Zafh Frazier than most, justin Wally the kid I

(01:01:45):
really like, Mellow Dotson, O'Donnell fortune is one that I'm
super high on. Who are so many cornerbacks you like
later on Day three?

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Well, a lot of the guys you just mentioned, But
I'll tell you what, Like when you told me we
were gonna be talking about Day three guys, Dave, I
didn't realize until I did this exercise that it is
indeed the cornerbacks that are the deepest position group in
this year's draft. Well, I don't think there's any question
about it, because the list I have here is twice

(01:02:16):
the size.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Of any other position group.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
And you mentioned O'donald Fortune, who was the defensive MVP
of the East West Shrine Bowl, but that was after
he lit up the hula bow. I love these guys
that get the call ups and you get to see
him and you get to see him dominate the level
of competition, but not at once, but two different platforms. Now,
O'donald Fortune ran a four five seven forty, which I

(01:02:40):
think he gets dinged a little bit. His shuttle times
aren't great, so I've got a Day three grade on him.
That's the kind of guy I want, you know, Zia
Alexander out of LSU. He's like Doctor Jekyl and mister Hyde.
You know, you watch one game and you say, man,
this guy looks like a first round talent. And you
watch another and you see, man, I wantn't even touch

(01:03:02):
this guy with a ten football. But there's enough and
I'm gonna I'm gonna group him and Denzel Burke together
because because like I like their confidence.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
They're not afraid to get burned.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Maybe they get burned too much for my liking, but
there's something there I can work with. They got size,
they got pedigree, right, They've tasted success, they've been beaten badly,
But like on day three, I want the guys who
are highly confident that forget their mistakes next play and

(01:03:37):
can do it. They've showed signs that they can do it.
That's where I lean on my coaching staff. I say,
you get it out of them, right, make it happen.
Zia Alexander is one of those guys. Denzel Burke is
one of those guys you mentioned. Mellow Dotson who's a
turnover machine. You talk about, nose for the football, can
jump the route, bait the quarterback. I love those traits.

(01:03:59):
Zamaya on out of Utah, nobody talks about. He's got size,
he's got turnover ability. This guy is a turnover machines.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Am I of one.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
I don't know why nobody talks about him, but he's
got all the intangibles all in the world, great size,
great production, comes from a big time program. Didn't get
a Combine invite, wasn't invited to an All Star game.
So again, when you're out of site, out of mind,
these guys tend to drop like anchors. And you know,

(01:04:30):
I could not get the kid that just signed with
Buffalo out of Villanova, Kristen Benford. I could not get
him into the NFL PA ball. I pounded the table,
I did cartwheels, handstands. I didn't go as far as
I did with Julius Chestnut, where I said, I bet
my life on it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
That this guy an NFL dude.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
But I was damn near close and Isis Waxter is
right there with him out of Villanova size speed. Now
he had a shoulder injury. You know, I was down
there in Villanova in the summertime talking to the coaches.
He rubbed the staff the wrong way because he could
have got it cleaned up right after the season last year,
he decided to wait, and as a result, he missed spring,

(01:05:15):
he missed training camp. He came into the year not practicing,
so like he's kind of flying under the radar. But like,
don't sleep on these Villanova cornerbacks. You know, you guys
made the mistake on bypassing Christian Benford. Don't pass on
this kid Waxter out of Villanova. He's the real deal.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
A couple other guys, Jamari Harris out of Iowa. I
think he's just a smooth mover.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Really liked his film, Really liked what I saw at
the All Star Circuit. AJ Hudsey out of North Carolina,
had no idea who he was until I saw him
at the East West Shrine Bowl. Now, his week ended
prematurely because he got dinged up. He got a little
bit minor injury there, so his week short ended shortly.
But slot cover corner aj Hussey and then KeAndre Jackson

(01:06:02):
at of Illinois State, who caught my attention at the
Hula Ball. I truly believe I helped him get to
the Senior Ball because of my reporting.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
There with Jim Nagy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Now I think he's going to ultimately wind up at
free safety just because of a lack of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Speed, the time, speed, the size. He's like six foot
two and three eighths.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
But KeAndre Jackson, when you talk about the athleticism small
school FCS ranks, this is a guy I really want
to have on my team because I'm going to give
him a shot to be a corner and if he
doesn't work out there, then I know I got myself
a quality safety. I don't think this kid's even getting drafted.
Six foot two, two hundred and eleven pounds. See, he

(01:06:46):
ran a four to sixty nine forty, so that's going
to move him to safety. Right, but I mean thirty
five and a half inch vert four two eight, six
nine three shuttle times, the change of the direction, the agility, athleticism,
the hips, it's there. The time speed is not. So
eventually he'll move over to safety. But I know we're

(01:07:07):
not going to talk safeties. But like Dan Jackson out
of Georgia, how that identicate, combine, invite? And then Michelle
Powell out of Miami is again just to turn Like
if you watch the Hurricanes, this guy makes pick six
interceptions like they're going out of style. But he just
gets no love for any of the media. But Michelle

(01:07:28):
Powell out of Miami and Brian Addison is a guy
like I don't know what you do with him out
of UCLA. I think it's a four year starter, six
foot four, he's only like two hundred pounds. I like
him as a linebacker really, but he's got to probably
bulke up about twenty pounds. But Brian Addison out of
UCLA is a you know what's intriguing, That's the definition

(01:07:51):
of intriguing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
But man, I love talking Day three undrafted free agents.
You know I do all these draft shows.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Nobody asks me about these guys. John Schmelck does giants
dot com guys do. But I know you appreciate it, Dave, And.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
I learned it from dave T. Man. You know, this
is this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Is this is an honor of day dave T.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
You know. Yeah, No, And that was the thing was,
like I, before I started doing the podcast and starting
getting hooked up with folks like yourself, Dave T was
the guy I would talk to about all these types
of players, you know, And when I'm digging into the
depths of depths, you know, and nobody like I got

(01:08:35):
a lot of buddies who are big football, but yeah,
the average fans stops on day two. So when you
really want to chat about not only the Day three guys,
but the guys who you could bring his undrafted free agent,
there's a very small group of lunatics like you. They
care enough about these guys to be in the film

(01:08:58):
room late nights into midnight oil trying to figure out
if you're going to find a diamond in the rough
a needle in the haystack. But no, man, I really
appreciate you come on to chat with us and know
where we're past the hour mark here, so we'll let
you go. But always happy to have you on chatting
Day three, prospects and all that. Hopefully the Giants don't

(01:09:19):
let us down too much this year like they have.
Maybe they listen to this and they figure out, hey,
maybe we should go look at the tape on that
guy again on day three. Might be able to find somebody.
But always the pleasure, Rick, really appreciate you making the time, buddy.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
No, the pleasure is mine, Dave, and I appreciate all
the support and all the support of the Giants fans,
the love, the hate, all the relationships that we have
in between.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
And hopefully you know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
I'm passionate like I'm from Jersey, I'm born and raised man,
like I grew up.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Fifteen minutes from Giants Stadium.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
So when I talked passionately about this franchise is because
I want them to succeed.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
I want them to do well.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
Nothing makes me happier than when the New York Football
Giants are on top of the football universe, because it
just makes life great, right, I mean, I love I
love going to the parades.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
It's been a.

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
While since we have one, but those are great times.
And like you know, my stance is of Shador Sanders
is based on convictions. So like if you, if you,
if I ruffled your feathers earlier in the show, Hopefully
you appreciate the draft gems and the analysis and the

(01:10:36):
depth that we can provide you over at all Access
football dot com. You can go get the NFL Draft Bible.
Dave has been a huge supporter. He jumps in on
our scouting seminars each month, So I appreciate all the
love and support, and hey, it's on.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
It's on to next year. Like we got the twenty
twenty six.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
Rankings already flowing and we're going to be expanding those
and having a deep dive analysis already. Like it's a
never ending process. And we're three hundred and sixty three
hundred and fifty seven days into this process right with
the week to go. But now I appreciate the time.

(01:11:14):
I know we're going to be doing this again too,
so I look forward to it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
And yeah, thank you so much. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Man, No, we appreciate all your insights and valuable this
time of year, and yeah, you got me be for sure.
I mean I'm not even thinking about next year yet.
I don't really start diving diving deep into this. I'm
not doing it full time or nothing. But I don't
really start diving into stuff till like November December. Once
we get through the draft, I'm like, all right, give

(01:11:40):
me this summer off, you know what I mean. My
wife's already trying to kill me with all the nights
I spend doing this stuff. So yeah, no, it's all
good man. But we appreciate all the listeners out there
tuning in. Hopefully you're able to find some new names
and nuggets that you weren't familiar with. Heading in about
a week away now from the draft down there destination

(01:12:02):
Green Bay. But we appreciate all our listeners. We appreciate
Rick taking the time go check out the Draft Bible,
subscribe to all of his stuff. It's fantastic album. Always there,
all the time, checking it out. We'll catch you guys
on the next Scouts on our podcast.