Scout's Honor 2023, Ep. 7 with Ourlad's David Syversten on Day 3 prospects

Dave Del Col is joined once again by Dave Syvertsen from Ourlads Scouting Service. In this episode they take a look at day 3 prospects at each position. Bringing back the popular "Would You Rather" series from last year.
Covering almost 60 prospects in one show, this is a must listen for anyone interested in the later rounds of the draft.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is the Scouts on Our Podcast. Welcome back to another edition in the
Scouts on Our Podcast. It isofficially Draft Week and we are once again
joined by the great Dave Cyberson fromour Lads Scouting Service. We're gonna be
taking a deep dive today into someof these positional players. Are trying to
look at the third, fourth,fifth, sixth round, seventh round type

(00:24):
folks who aren't getting as much loveas they should be through the traditional media
pundance of this day and age.So siiner are going to be bringing back
the would you Rather series that wedid a little bit last year in one
of our episodes. But SI,welcome back to the show. Appreciate you
coming back on, Paul, domy pleasures mind? Dave. Anytime I
get to spend an hour talk aboutthe draft, especially if it's somewhat Giants

(00:47):
related or not, it's is onthe one that gets the most pleasure out
of it. So thanks for havingme on and let's dive into a baby.
Yeah. Now excited to chat withyou about some of these folks because
nobody else is really talking about it. I mean, I couldn't good.
I would love to listen to apodcast talking about all these things, but
yeah, it's just everybody's talking aboutthe first and second round guys. So
we'll start with the quarterbacks and thenwork our way all the way through the

(01:10):
roster into the safeties. But tokick us off with the quarterbacks, a
couple of Senior Bowl prospects that we'regetting a little bit of love coming out
of that week down in Mobile,Clayton tune Verse, Jake Hayner. Who
would you rather have out of thosetwo? You know? For a while,
dating back to the fall, whenI first started watching the tape on

(01:30):
Hanter and this is more before thedeep dive process where I really go in
and chart things and watch multiple games, but just watching him as a fan,
I just saw Taylor Heneke right away. And this is in a year
where Taylor Heneke to get a shotwith the Commanders last year and he's in
Atlanta now back in that Desmon writerup, but that's who I saw,

(01:52):
and that's you know, I thinkI was the first one to put that
name next to him, and thenit became kind of trendy, and it
part of it is the way hethrows the ball. He's kind of had
like that like rocket release throw.It from the shoulder, lack of a
line up, and also the bodytype is where I really start to see
He's he's six foot, but he'sa short six foot meaning very short arms,
very small wingspan, and that's theway Tyer Honekey plays. But he's

(02:15):
so precise and he creates so muchtorque from his lower half when he throws
the ball, and I trust him. That's one thing I picked up on
with Fresno State. Not to saythat he's mistake three. He did turn
the ball over a little bit toomuch on a perth throw average, but
I trust him in big moments.I trust him to play with a short
memory if things starts to spile outof control, and even if I don't

(02:38):
project him to be a starter atthe next level, I would spend a
Day two pick on him. IfI believe that a backup quarterback is more
important than certain starters on a footballteam. You don't you do not want
to be the team that the secondyou're starting quarterback goes down, it's over.
You know, it's There's just toomuch that goes into building a quality

(02:59):
for ball team, and a backupquarterback to me is someone that you either
have to athletically have gifts or youcan be trustworthy, right, and Haner
fits on the ladder side of that. I trust him with the ball in
his hand in big moments, casein point forty nine ers last year,
Trey Lance goes down brock Purty,you know, yeah, to hang in
there and keep him moving in theplayoffs and hand I'm sorry, Heineke kind

(03:23):
of sorry. Haner fits into thatbrock Purty mold. You know. I
was asked on a previous podcast backin the winter after the season was over,
but before the pre draft process reallytook off, who is next year's
brock Purty, I said, Haner. But that was a little bit a
cop out because he's not going tobe a seventh round pick but just a
quarterback that comes out of nowhere.And he's not spectacular, he's not overly

(03:46):
gifted, he doesn't have the bestof anything. But again, what made
Purty good in combination with one ofthe best offensive minds of football as you
trust him. He knows what todo, but he also knows what not
to do. And again, thatshort memory thing is something that you could
pick up on once you go intothe deep dive on these guys when you
watch all the film and he playslike that. I'm a big advocate for

(04:08):
Clayton Tune. Okay, I thinkhe's got all the measurables, which I
am a measurables guy. He's gotthe intangibles. Sometimes he doesn't make the
greatest decisions in the world, butI think he's got a higher ceiling.
By comparison, could actually develop intoa starting quarterback if he works on some
of the rough around the edges stuffthat he's got to his game. But

(04:28):
I'd be more of a roll ofdice guy on Tune by comparison to Hanter,
but both solid options in the middlerounds. Yeah, I mean what
Tune has that han doesn't is asize but be forty four starts. I
mean that dude started forty four gamesin college. That means something. I'm
telling you, because you know,I get scared of quarterbacks that don't scare
don't start more than fifteen games incollege. So on the flip side of

(04:51):
it, I have to like guysthat did start forty four games. The
ten interceptions three years in a rowbothers me, you know, And the
fact that he does take a fewtoo many swings up for the fences.
He's a little too aggressive, makesthrows that he just can't make, but
he tries to. And you cancall that confidence. I can call it.
Hey, I'm not learning from mistakes, but I agree with you.

(05:13):
If these guys both hit their ceilingand they get in the right system tune
ceiling is higher, it'll be interestingto see how they shake out. So,
going into a little bit more ofthe Day three conversation in the quarterback
vein a couple of wild cards herefor you. Stetson Bennett from the University
of Georgia and Dorian Thompson Robinson DTRfrom UCLA kind of very different in terms

(05:40):
of their play styles. You know, Stetson, he's got a lot going
against them in terms of the offthe field stuff. Can't handle being told
no, had the public intoxication thing, he's too old, like all these
sorts of things. But you know, the guy just won a national championship
at the University of Georgia. Sothe fact that he's being projected in the
fifth to seventh round or an undraftedfree a gin is kind of wild to
me. And having him in thesame context of a DTR for this setup

(06:04):
is pretty wild. But what doyou think about those two? I mean,
I'll tell you what. I havethese guys very close to each other
in my quarterback stack, and Iam going to take DTR. But I
do want to talk about Bennett.The fact that he was the offensive MPP
two years in a row in theNational Championship Game, the fact that he's
a very underrated athlete, you know, and the fact that if you like

(06:29):
Bryce Young, how can you sayyou don't like Sesse and Bennett because of
the size. So they are verysimilar prospects. Bryce Young is a little
bit better across the board, butI like Bennett. I like a lot
of the quarterbacks in this class.To just simply add to my room.
Ben it's a little older. Ithink he is at I think he's peaked.
I don't think he's going to getbetter from where he is right now,

(06:49):
which is fine. It's still goodenough to be a quality NFL backup,
but there are off field issues withhim, and a part of a
backup quarterbacks job to essentially be anextension of the coaching staff, and if
he already has immaturity issues, thatkind of means that when one of the
main attributes to a backup quarterback.He doesn't have it. You know,

(07:10):
we could talk about the on fieldstuff. It's impressive. It's not overly
impressive, but it's impressive. Butif the stuff between the ears isn't there
and he is a backup quarterback,that you don't think it's going to escalate
to a starter kind of You startedasking yourself, what's the point? Right
DTR to me, forty eight startsin college couldn't come out. He could

(07:31):
have come out last year. Hewould have been a draft pick last year,
but he wanted to go back toschool to simply develop the mental side
of his game. And when youwatch him play, and if you don't
know anything about him personally, youthink he's kind of like a loose cannon,
temperamental, maybe not the kind ofguy that you want leading a franchise.
But some of the background digging thatI got on him was that he's

(07:51):
one of the most intelligent, artisticminds you're going to find at this position.
He's just simply a competitor. That'swhat he comes across the football.
And there are some maturity issues onthe field, like again, when things
spiral out of control, they spialout of control for him, It's almost
like he just loses track of playing, of making sound good decisions. He
just goes for it. And youknow, this is a guy that if

(08:15):
he gets sacked, he gets pissedat the guy that sacked him. Then
on the next running play he goesand tries to take him out as a
blocker, right like, that willnot work in the NFL. You will
get showed out. A defensive backis bigger than him. So you know,
those emotional things I think can developin time with maturity and being in
a professional environment. No longer thebig man on campus in the NFL.
But I think with the way thatthe NFL is trending with RPOs and wanting

(08:41):
a little bit more athleticism at quarterbackand the game being a little bit more
spread out, I believe he justfits that mold. I actually believe this
kid's gonna start games in the NFL, and it won't be right away,
but I believe he'll be a TyrodTaylor type where like, hey, if
he gets hooked up with a certainteam, there's just no one in front
of him. He could he couldwin five to six, seven eight games

(09:01):
a year and I think that's wherehis upside has capped. But I just
like his overall package on and offthe field more than Bennett. He's definitely
got the attributes you're looking for inthis new age of NFL football. I
could see it was evident in theEast West Shrine Bowl how much his game
fluctuates, because he'd make like agood play here, and then he'd make

(09:24):
three subsequent horrific plays. And Iget that, like, chemistry development in
an All Star game is very difficultto come by, all that kind of
stuff. So I'm not going tototally not him on that, but I
was expecting to see a bit morefrom it. Even when he was throwing
Jake Bobo's way, who's a guywe're going to get to here at the
wide receiver position in a minute,he was still missing Bobo, And it's
like, dude, you've got thechemistry, you've got your running back was

(09:48):
there at the game. You've gota wide receiver at the game, like
you should be really performing a lotbetter than you did. So you know,
hopefully he gets that cleaned up alittle bit on your size. And
then the thing for Stetson in myeyes, is like you did this shit
at Georgia, you know, withthe best offensive line with two incredible tight
ends like wide receivers, running backs, go go to Houston. You know,

(10:11):
let's see how you do over therewith no talent, you know.
Yeah, so yeah, kind oflike a right place, right time.
And we do see this a lotin college, like the best college quarterbacks
are not the best quarterbacks in thefell it And we could find examples of
that every year. And you know, Bennett just seems to be that guy
this season. Um, you know, and I hate saying anything bad about
I love to watch him play.I think he was great for college football,

(10:35):
and I do think he can stickto an NFL roster. But you
know, sometimes I wish I didn'tget information on some of these kids off
the field. Is it? Didit? Did? Just? It put
a cloud? And again we've talkedabout this last time. I think,
right, you have clusters of guys, and you know, if you want
to be simple about this, theyhave the same grade. They're tied.
I think I view them as thesame player. Which one seems less risky

(10:58):
or which one seems better off thefield. And if That's what I'm going
for, you just can't make acase for Bennett. And it's not like
we're talking about a physical marvel here, Like sometimes you will gamble on tools
even if the character isn't there,But he doesn't have that. He just
has a lot of wins on theloaded roster, yep. And the character
thing really does knock you back.I mean, if you look at Hendon

(11:18):
Hooker being projected in the first round, potentially coming off the injury and with
the same age constrictions that Bennett has, I mean, you know that shows
you how quick you could fall.But yeah, moving along to running back.
A couple of fringe Day two earlyDay three guys that I'm really high
on, different dynamic in terms oftheir skill set. But Eric Gray from

(11:43):
Oklahoma and Roshan Johnson from the Universityof Texas. How do you look at
those two? So they're back toback of my running back stack, and
if you are starting a team fromscratch, I'm going for Roshawn Johnson.
If you have a team that alreadyhas a couple of quality backs, I'm
going for Johnson. I don't thinkhe's the better running back than Eric Ray,
but you need to keep in mindthat when you're taking running backs day

(12:05):
three, they need to do somethingmore than player running back, and Johnson
is going to probably be your bestpass blocker of all your running backs on
your roster. The second he stepson the field, he's probably going to
be one of your best special teamers. And the fact that he was a
quarterback until twenty nineteen and he gotput into the backfield because of injuries at
Texas and then the next year Bijanshows up, so you never really got

(12:28):
to see him develop as running back. There is some intriguing unknown to him.
Physically, he's everything. I meanhe's tall, he's fast, he's
big, he's aggressive, he's quick, he's explosive. I mean he checks
every single one of those boxes.I don't think he's the most polished running
back. I don't think he reallyknows what to do when he gets the
ball sometimes. But your basement withhim is he's going to be one of

(12:48):
our key special teamers and a guythat I can trust to perform certain roles
at a high level. If injuriesstart to pile up. Let's use the
Giants for example. If Sequon goesdown, that running back becomes a very
committee approach. He's your blocker,you know, he might even be your
short yardage guy, definite, nodoubt, no question. Is he you're
you know, every down guy thatwants to get fifteen twenty carries a game.

(13:09):
Probably not, but he could bebecause you don't know yet. Gray
though, I like him if Ineed a running back right if I'm if
I'm stacked on special teams, butI need a guy that could develop into
the next day three quality running back. I do like Eric ray Moore.
He's got the lower body of arunning back. He's yoked below the ways.
He actually is a kind of asmall framed guy. I was kind

(13:30):
of surprised when I saw of hiszumbers because he looks like a monster on
tape. But that's the lower half, and that is what I want out
of a running back. I wanta big, thick lower body, thick
hips, thick thighs. So he'sgot all that, and he's excellent with
short yard short area movement, likea guy that's just excellent in the phone
booth. And that's a lot ofmore running backs player. I don't care
about the four to six forty thatmuch. He's not a breakaway speed guy
and never has been, but anunderrated component of his game that gives him

(13:52):
a complete look to it is thathe's had a one hundred and two targets
over the past three years and he'sdropped two of them. The kids.
The kid can catch the ball.So that's why I hope that makes sense
that if I need a running back, that might be the guy someday,
Eric Ray, if I want afootball player for my team, Roshan Johnson's
the guy. Yeah, I agreewith you. I think they're both quality

(14:13):
backs and worth an investment late daytwo, early day three. But yeah,
Roschan, he's had a lot standingin his way. Like even I
was expecting his stock to fly upat the Senior Bowl and then he'd kind
of be more on that like ZachCharbonnat type tier. But breaking his hand
and then not being able to getthe looks there tough, you know.
So he's had those inconsistencies, butI think he does certainly have the potential.

(14:37):
And yeah, Eric Gray kind ofreminds me of Romandre Stevenson, you
know, coming out He's just he'sa patient runner, finds the holes,
let's the blocks develop, all thatkind of stuff, and he's not going
down on first contact. So ifyou need somebody to you know, get
you through some tough yardage there onsecond and five or something like that.
You need to spell Barkley or youknow, any other starting back in the

(14:58):
league. I think he's definitely gota lot to offer. Yeah, absolutely
there So some later round folks,um Deneric Prince from Tulsa and Evan Hull
from Northwestern. What do you goton those two? You know, classic?
You know hole is more NFL readykind of reminds me of the way

(15:20):
Tiki Barber when he left the Giants. It's kind of who Evan holl is
five ten two ten thick strong doesn'thave much of a ceiling to work with
from here, but I trust him. He also contributes on special teams.
He's a good blocker. He is. He was, without a doubt,
the best worker on that team atNorthwestern according to that coaching staff. First

(15:41):
guy in, last guy out,no matter what it was. But you're
not going to get anything special outof him. But he does play fast.
I will say that. You know, we saw that at the Senior
Bowl. He hits the hole quickand he's not a blazer, but he
plays fast. That's why the fortyTimes can be a little deceptive two years
at Texas A and m got buriedon the depth chart. Wasn't going to

(16:03):
make any progress from there, sowe leave school. You know, he's
six ft twenty runs a four fourfive. This is almost the opposite of
Whole. So again, what areyou going for? Are you trying to
find a long term project? Hiskid did no blocking. This kid did
no special teams. He's just agood athlete that had a flashes on tape.
So again, if I need along term project that I want to
work with, I'm going with Prince. But if I want someone that like,

(16:26):
hey I might need someone this year, or hey I need someone to
contribute on special teams, I'm gonnago with Whole. But for the sake
of this discussion, we're talking lateday three, I'm probably gonna go with
Denik Prince just because he is somethingthat we've talked about or like a similar
situation to what we're talking about earlier. The tools are there, the attitude
is there, and I just don'tthink he's had to really At Tulsa,

(16:47):
they didn't need him on special teams, they didn't need him to block,
right, So I think that there'sjust some intangibles that go along with what
he needs to do that he willreach that point. Yeah, he had
a really good Shrine Bowl, hadsome some good runs in the game,
and Hall had a good Senior Bowlweek as well, so God exposed to
both of them in the All StarGames. But I do agree with you

(17:08):
that I think Prince has more upsidethan All like All to me just looks
like Danny Woodhead, which is greatif you need that, you know what
I mean, but at the sametime doesn't give you as much of a
ceiling as somebody like Prince, whoalso might have a little bit more tread
on the tires since he wasn't gettingrun into the ground nearly as much as
Hall took a lot of snaps.So you know, hopefully they both do

(17:30):
well. But I would also beleaning Prince in that category. And I
don't think anybody's really been talking aboutPrince at all. I haven't seen his
name come up. Yes, youknow, it's a deep running back group,
it really is, and whenever thathappens, right, there are just
a few guys that sit through thecracks publicly. I think the NFL,
the war rooms, they're gonna knowthis kid is worth taking at some point
because you don't find this blend oftools and also just football polished talent as

(17:55):
a runner. You don't find thatcombination day three often. So I think
his floor it is probably the endof the fifth round. Yeah, well
yeah, because he's I'm seeing himbeing projected as you know, six seventh.
I think he goes around that.Man, I would love to see
it, let me see. Yeah, So jumping over to the wide receiver

(18:17):
position obviously a super hot topic forthe New York Football Giants these days.
I'm you know, pounding the tablefor don't take somebody day one, Day
two. Let's wait for day three. I think there's a ton of depth
to be had on day three,so I wanted to run through this one.
We're actually gonna do a three parterby comparison, and all the other
ones were doing a two part butthere were just too many names, and

(18:38):
we're going with big body guys.I know. Yeah, the talk of
the town is the small guys,but I'm bringing it back the other way
around. U. I want totalk about the big guys, starting off
with Justin Shorter and Bryce for Wheaton. Every time that I see the Anthony
richardson highlights. The only person catchingthese footballs is justin Short and he is

(19:00):
making some acrobatic catches and I don'tunderstand for the life of me why he
is being projected so low. Andthen Bryce board Wheaton, you know,
shades of Kevin White, crazy fastforty, the whole big, big body
guy coming out of West Virginia.Lots of like there as well. How
do you kind of stack those twoup? Yeah, I mean I think
I have to lean. I mean, they're very It's funny whenever you go

(19:21):
to the Day three receivers, youknow, I was just kind of writing
up a little list for a coupleof guys lately and the amount of size
that is going to be available onday three. There are so many of
them, Like it seems like everyother receiver or two out of every three
rounds one, two, three areon their size. It's one of the
blips on the radar with their scoutingreport. But on day two it's a
complete Sorry, day three, it'scomplete opposite. These guys are massive,

(19:45):
So I really, I mean,that just puts another bullet point under your
argument. Let's chill on wide receiverearly to build up the rest of the
roster. But the fact that thebig boys, they're there Day three and
there's a lot of them, andthey're not slow guys. And Ford Wheaton
they both have downfield speed. Theyhave what I consider it's called long stride

(20:07):
speed, meaning it doesn't it takeshim a while to get going, and
that comes with the territory being twohundred and twenty pound plus. So I
looked at when I look at theseguys, who has the better ability to
go up and get the ball intraffic? You know who's going to catch
that, you know, back shoulderfade in the end zone, and I
think Ford Wheaton has that ability ata much higher level. Shorter is inconsistent

(20:32):
with ball skills. Now, whenhe gets it down, it looks pretty
and then you just see the frame. You're like, how does this guy
get stopped? And he's another highand tangible player. You know, you
know that he's going to come inand work Ford Wheat and there are some
questions there with his practice, habitsand work ethic, But when it comes
to sheer talent and what this guycan do for an offense, both in
contested situations but vertically, you know, the vertical portion of the route tree

(20:53):
to send these guys downfield. Ilike what Ford Wheaton can bring a little
bit more, And he's not andtalked about enough either in my eyes,
but I'm probably lean and Justin Shorter, I'm just enamored with Justin Shorter from
Yeah, the thing. So there'sthree spots away from I mean out of
all the wide receivers, they're threespots away from each other on my list.

(21:15):
So it's you know, you're splittinghairs at that point, what do
you want? You know that that'swhere the the answer to a lot of
these questions can come. What areyou looking for? You know? And
then once you tell me what you'relooking for, then you can give that
answer exactly. So a couple otherbig body guys at the wide receiver position
that are probably going to go maybea little bit later, but who knows.

(21:37):
On day three these guys could potentiallygo earlier than the previous two.
But Joe and Gatta from Clemson andMatt Landers from Arkansas, who you got
there? So back to back onmy stack. I'm going in Gatta because
maybe it because I'm stubborn. Butlast year, prior to the twenty twenty
one season. He is in mysenior stack. He went back. He

(22:00):
took the extra year of valuability fromthe COVID year, so that's why he
was back on school twenty twenty two. But prior to twenty twenty one,
I watched a lot of his tapefrom the previous year, twenty twenty and
he looked like a freak long striderlonghand sorry, long arms, big hands,
goes up and get he can getthe ball. He's twitchy once he
gets going, he can really move. You know, the more tape on

(22:22):
him you watch, you just seeinconsistency everywhere as a pass catcher, as
a route runner, his effort evenbut there's still something in there that I
see. He looks like an NFLwide receiver. He looks like a starting
NFL wide receiver when he's at hisbest. Landers call guy that ran fast.
I think he measured six four twohundred rands up four four like that
was one of the whoa at thecombines like it. Did not see that

(22:45):
commenting because I didn't see that ontape though often right, So I think,
then gotta is this something that Clemsonsystem, the whole offensive system there,
the passing game since Trevor Lawrence hasjust taken a complete nosedime. And
I don't know if it's coaching scheme, it's development, I'm not sure,
but I think that kid was ona trajectory to being the next big time

(23:06):
Clempson wide receiver. And we've seena few of these guys come out from
there, and I thought he wasthe next one. And I still think
there's something in him that an NFLteam or a new coach and new system,
new surroundings can get out of him. So if I had to pick
between these two guys are kind ofin the same tier in terms of they
both need to develop. Lander's toolsmight be a little bit better, but

(23:26):
I'm gonna go with Joseph and Gotta. I agree with you there in the
twenty twenty five extra pounds of weighton and Goata is not going to hurt
him at the next level either.Yeah, all right, one lass wide
receiver comparison with you know, seventhround undrafted free agent territory is where we're
getting here, Probably more likely undraftedfree agent territory than actually getting picked up.

(23:49):
But two guys that I really like, again, huge individuals, ktay
On Thompson from UVA and Jake Bobofrom UCLA. Who do you like there?
And I mean Jake Bobo? Heran a four to nine. You
know, it's like that's like youcan't play receiver if you run a four
nine, just doesn't happen. Sodo you immediately go down the area right

(24:10):
he's got He's gotta make a moveto tight end, and even then that's
considered a slow tight end. Youknow, you run a thirty nine as
a tight end, that might getyou. But he's I think he measured
in that like two ten six fourduo ten, So maybe he has the
frame to add some bulk. ButI question where do you put him?
What are you doing with him?I did like some of his tape.
You know. There's a couple ofguys when that you said the program that
I thought got a little overlooked,and he was one of them. Just

(24:33):
a good and contested situation. He'sa sudden route runner. He gets out
of his brakes very well. Itshows his hands to the quarterback, doesn't
drop the ball, tough to bringdown after the cash just the measurables aren't
there, and that's a big deal. But I'll tell you what between these
two. I don't. I'm nota huge Thompson fan either. I thought
kind of in a similar multi Bobo, like just the wide receiver measurables aren't

(24:55):
there. They're not good enough forme. And I think Bobo is a
better football player. So if Ihad to take one of these guys an
undrafted free agency, I'm going Bobo. Bobo has great hands, like you
said, doesn't drop the football.I mean you throw it anywhere in his
vicinity and he's coming down with it. So I think that adds a lot
of value, be it in youknow, depth, or if he gets

(25:17):
converted to tight end even though he'sstill kind of undersides for that as well.
They'll be interesting to see where helands. But I have to imagine
that having sure hands like he doesis going to go a long way with
somebody. Yeah, and he's gotthe radius to work with. Um.
You know, he was six fourtwo or six ten and change. Yeahs
just under an eighty inch and withspan like that's that's a big boy.
You know that that can catch theball. So you can find a spot

(25:40):
for him, probably a practice squadguy early while they figure out, all
right, does he actually play fournine or can he at least play a
four seven type speed, and ifnot, can we take a year and
put him in the weight room andmake him eat an extra millard four or
four per day and try to getonto two twenty two, twenty five and
have like one of those you know, oversized slot receivers that would becoming kind
of trendy in the NFL. Now, yeah, kind of the same mold

(26:03):
of like a jasper horse that whocame out of Princeton and then stuck around
with the Bears for a little bit, and he since change teams. I
don't remember exactly where he's at now, but sort of that that winner of
like a wide receiver tight end,and we'll probably end up slotting in as
a tight end. But if youget a five ten yard conversion on third
down and this guy's not dropping thefootball and he's a big body, like

(26:25):
what's not going to give him somelooks? You know? Yeah, So
then going to the tight end conversationsince we're leaning that way with these two
prospects. A couple of guys whoSenior Bowbel invites got some good looks down
there, but I didn't get aton of playing time on game day,
and it's sort of kind of upand down between where they're going to go.

(26:48):
We got Cam Latto from Alabama andWill Mallory from the U. Who
do you like more? I wouldn'tgo with Mallory just because of the speed
factor. Now, you know,tight ends are becoming less about blocking more
about receiving. Whether you agree withthat or not is kind of irrelevant.
Like it's just the way the NFLis going right now. I want my

(27:11):
tight ends to block two. Butfor example, I've Dalton Kincaid is my
tight end one of this class overthe other guys, because I think he's
the best passcatcher. He might bethe best passcatcher in the entire draft,
receivers included, and because of that, he's number one. You know,
if this question was asking me fifteenyears ago, I might go with the
more physical guy. But Will Malloryis he's got some special speed for the

(27:33):
tight end position. Like again,a long strider that might not be the
most sudden guy, but once hegets going up in the field, he's
one of these guys you're probably justnot going to catch her behind, especially
if you're a linebacker or safety.Comes from a family of football guys,
you know, And I do likethat. I like guys that coaches like.
I like the fact that they're gonnaget things faster than others, and

(27:56):
there's there's gonna be less learning curve, there's a deeper understanding of how things
work when you're a professional professional footballplayer coming from a program like that or
a family like that. And Iwould not want him as my starting tight
end. But if if you know, we're talking day three guys, you're
probably looking at backups anyway. Theone thing LAT two does have, though,
is he is still somewhat new tothe tight end position. He was

(28:18):
an outside linebacker for a few yearsor for a couple of years, and
he was a great security blanket forBryce Young, you know that team.
Their wide receivers stunk this year forAlabama, and I just thought a lot
too was just a reliable underneath guythat is not going to stretch the field,
but he will catch the ball andits thrown his way. So Mallory
is a little bit more of aHey, I think I can really get

(28:38):
something out of him that can bespecial and help our offense. LAT two
feels like a safer play if Ijust need a solid, steady, physical
backup that will be a monster onspecial teams as well. Yep, Yeah,
it's been shoppy with the Alabama tightends the last few years, so
obviously a bit pause for concern there. And he did have a knee injury
back in twenty twenty two. Andhe's slower than Mallory as you're alluding to.

(29:02):
Mallory kind of reminds me of NoahGray, who fit in with Kansas
City there behind Travis Kelcey. Butif you just need somebody to kind of
dump a pass off to when thedefense is going the other direction, you
know, could really turn up fieldand make something happen with it. So
be interesting to see where he lands. Some later round guys at the tight
end position, Raydon Willis from Oklahomaand Breton Strange from Penn State. Who

(29:26):
do you like? I'm probably gonnago Breton Strange there. They're both they're
both kind of h back, fullback, most move tight end types, right,
And what I mean by that isthey're probably not going to line up
with their feet in the with theirhand in the dirt all the time.
They're just not very big guys.They're not long, they're not heavy.

(29:48):
But one thing they both do,and I think Strange does this at a
higher level, is they block wellon the move, and that's important you
get to that second third level defense. I mean, that's what springs a
lot of big plays, whether it'sa screen or run I play, it's
what was your blocking doing at thesecond and third level. And he's no
slasher's receiver either. He just didnot get a lot of looks at the
Penn State offense. But when hegot looks, especially near the end zone,

(30:11):
he capitalized. And he's very spaceaware. He knows how to box
defenders out. He's not a burner. Now there's Willis. Willis is more
of a kind of like a specialteamer, kind of fullback tight but I
didn't see a lot of like naturalreceiving skill sets in him as a route
runner as a pass catcher. Strange, I think, does a little bit
more in that department, So thatkind of breaks the tie for me.

(30:34):
I really like Brenton Strange, andI've seen him going aside like the fourth
round or as low as an undraftedfree agent, so there's a lot of
variability with him. But I agreehe just didn't get the looks and if
you can assess his his side,his speed, is demeanor, like all
that, his intangibles and project him. You know, I think he is
kind of in line with the lasttwo guys that we were talking about,

(30:56):
you know, not too far offfrom now, right, lad too,
So you're right. Should be interesting, especially once all these teams kind of
run through the tight ends on dayone and day two and then it's not
going to be as much of aneed. Some of these guys might fall
later on day three. Um,you know, yeah, there's gonna be
guys their day three and that thetight end group is just too it's too

(31:17):
deep for them not to for themnot to be there round around four or
five six, there's going to beguys that are much great, are graded
much higher than them or where they'reat, that are going to be available.
So if you strike out early onat tight end for whatever reason,
I wouldn't panic too much. There'sgoing to be someone there day three,
Yeah, yeah, Paying Durham andJosh Wiley a couple other names that I

(31:40):
like, yeah later round yeah sticksix, I mean, come on man,
yeah yeah right, and absolute studin terms of being an athlete,
um, and to be able toget somebody like him later on. Pretty
baffling. But it's a deep,tight end class, you know, and
I think he's like a third roundguy all day. Yeah, you're right,
all right. So moving along tothe offensive line, which obviously another

(32:06):
pain point for the Giants these days. We'll start with the center, since
that's front of mine in my eyes. Start looking at the day two types.
You know, a lot of hypearound some of the other folks,
but Whippler and Stromberg I think arebeing compared as like the next two guys

(32:27):
after Schmitz and Tipman, or theycould even be before them, who knows.
But I think that those two stackup pretty well. So curious to
get your take on both of them. Yeah, I mean Stromberg. Actually,
it's funny. He tested a lotbetter athletically than what I saw in
tape and offensive lineman. I've saidthis before. I think I said this

(32:50):
with you last week. It's theposition I care at least about when it
comes to testing, but it's it'sstill part of the equation. So I
went back after his workouts. Iwent back like did I miss something?
And I still don't see. Icould see the athletic ability in him,
but I don't see the body control. I see him getting really top heavy
overextending, and that's what makes youslow because once you're in that really awkward

(33:13):
lack of knee bend position, yournumbers are facing the ground, the face
mask is facing the ground. Youdon't react well latterly. And Whippler on
the opposite side of that, it'svery good at keeping the knee bend,
keeping the chest up, and beingable to transition left to right. I
think Whippler a Jersey kid, bythe way. I think he has a
shot at being one of the topthree centers in this draft. Down the
road, I believe he'll go afterTipman and after Schmitt's in the draft.

(33:37):
But he had really good tape againstJalen Carter. I really I was impressed.
He was definitely not the same level, but very few are. And
that's the kind of dtackle he'll faceoff against. And there are some length
issues, as there are with manycenters that come into the league, and
Stromberg has him on that side aswell. But as a pure football player

(33:57):
athlete does things the right way consistently, I trust Whippler more than I do
Strongberd. Yeah, mon Vale,New Jersey, native Saint Joseph's regional.
That's right. Nice to bring himback, But yeah, I think there's
a lot to like on both guys. Do you think Whippler would make it
to the third round or is hegoing to be gone in the second when

(34:20):
a run on center happens. Ithink he's going to go right in that
like top seventy five areas, SoI think he will be a third round
pick. Will he make it tothe Giant's third round pick? I don't
think so. You know, therethere you can make a case. I
think the last I counted, there'seight teams that could easily use a top
one pick on the center. Thedemand is pretty high for that position,

(34:43):
and the supply is not in thisdraft it is, but you know,
now you're talking about third or fourcenter being taken. I would be surprised
if he was there for the Giantsto the round pick. Yep. Yeah,
it seems like more and more.You got to prioritize it in the
second round if you're gonna solve thatneed. So looking at a couple of
the later round guys in case wejust really swing for the fences and let

(35:05):
it ride. Jake Andrews out ofTroy and Juice Scrugs from Penn's state.
Who do you like more? I'ma Jake Andrews guy. You know,
he's It's funny when you watch himon film, you see kind of like
a short, stumpy guy, buthe's not. I mean, he's longer
than most of the centers in thisdraft. I think his footwork post snap
is as good as anyone other thanSchmidt, because I think Schmidt is kind

(35:27):
of in a league of his ownwhen comes to footwork. But he and
he's a quality athlete too. Imean he ran a five one one eight
split for the ten yard split,really good three killing time, and that
shows up on tape. And Ithought that what he did in the pre
draft process really elevated him because youknow, these guys from the lower level
of college football, you get alittle nervous about their level of competition throughout

(35:50):
college. So what happens when youup that level competition. If he's the
same player or in some cases evenbetter, he looks twitcher, looks quicker.
That's what I saw out of him. So I moved him up throughout
the pre dract process a couple oftimes. So I'm going Andrews over Scrugs
here pretty easily. Yeah, Andthe wrestling background for Andrews definitely shows up
as well. I mean he's he'sgot some grip strain to him, and

(36:14):
he likes to get close and really, you know, throw him around.
So I really like Jake Andrews.I wouldn't be mad at him at all
in a Giants uniform, but alittle bit undersized for the position, so
they say, but he makes upright a variety of other ways. Yeah.
I mean something to consider too whenyou're looking at the centers. Will
the Giants draft a center only?And pretty much all these guys, I

(36:35):
mean, I think Scruggs is theone that has a little bit of position
versus Tody to him Summer saying Strombergcould play guard. I don't know.
Um. Part of me thinks theGiants are gonna lean more in the direction
of drafting a tackle slash guard thatmaybe they could convert the center. Cody
Mark from North Dakota State. Iknow that's more. Day two. He
snapped at North Dakota State every practicebecause he thought that he might want to

(36:59):
get that look, someone might wantthat look out of him in the NFL
that's the kind of move I seethem making. There's another guy I see
you having us talk about soon.Won't spoil it yet who it is,
but he's another guy that could projectthe center at the next level. So
I think the Giants are going tobuild the offensive line from the lens of
let's get a guy that a backupthat can play multiple spots. You know,

(37:21):
if you're drafting someone in the firstround, hey, he's your starting
center, center only, whatever.But if I'm gonna use a Day three
pick on a player, I don'tthink it's gonna be a center only.
I think it's gonna be a guythat with a little bit more position versatility.
Yep, Yes, Steve a Villaanother Day two guy, a guard
prospect who could certainly play center aswell. So not a center. Yeah,
you know, they do cover coveit rather that position versatility. So

(37:44):
it'll be interesting to see who theyshake out with because we're gonna have to
address this need. We're not goingto be able to come out of this
without being, you know, pullthe trigger on some offensive live and hopefully
so I agree, But yeah,let's flip over to offensive guard. A
couple of guys that up some mixedreviews of kind of run up the list
a little bit. You know,we're probably day three guys when everything started

(38:07):
now looking more like the day twofringe Day three type. Anthony Bradford from
LSU and Nick Broker from Oldmis.Who do you like more? You know,
if you ask me during the season, it would have been Broker.
I had him as a top fiveguard, but the more I watched on
him, you just see a limitedto his upside. I have Bradford my
number five guard in the class.I have him grated as you know,

(38:30):
a fourth rounder, but yeah,a fourth rounder. But I do believe
he could end up going Day two. He is probably the most powerful,
the sheer power guard other than OsiresTorrens. He's probably gonna go in the
first round. Have probably the firstguard taken. This kid can move people
off the ball, and I stillthink he's trying to figure it out.

(38:50):
It's almost like his tape looks borderlineDay two caliber, and you know that
he just doesn't know what he's doingyet. If he gets along hooked up
with the right offensive line coat,I think Bradford's gonna be a long time
starter in this league. So ifyou're gonna ask me which one of these
guys am I taking Day three forthe Giants offensive line or any offensive line
out there, I'm taking Bradford,even though Broker has a little bit more

(39:13):
positioned versatility. Why do you thinkthat nobody's talking about Bradford because I haven't
heard his name come up a singletime in all this that we've been going
through. I do believe he wasa little bit of a surprise early decoration.
I think a lot of people didnot anticipate him coming out, and
when he did either, some peoplejust didn't do enough background checking on him.
I think that's something in the mediawe see a lot. Scouts are

(39:35):
definitely talking about him, Teams aredefinitely talking about him. He fits the
prototype to a t. But Ithink sometimes when you aren't watching a guy
throughout the fall and then you seean earlier decoration and you don't have like
that almost bias towards you in yourhead about him already you know you're old
and on other guys, he justkind of slips through the cracks. But
I can guarantee you the NFL verymuch is aware of him, and he

(39:55):
might be one of the first fiveguards taken overall, wouldn't surprise me at
all and would love to see forthat kid because I think he's got a
lot of upside to him. Yeah, moving along to some of the deeper
rounds. Talk about somebody with someposition versatility, John Gaines from UCLA and
then somebody who picked up a bitof steam in the All Star Game City

(40:20):
So from eastern Michigan. Who wouldyou rather have out of those two?
Gaines is a pretty big margin aheadof City. So, although I agree
with you, So did pick upsome steam. And a guy that I
scout with, he was an offensiveline guru. I always run by my
thoughts by him. He liked soa lot. He was on SO in
November and forced me to look alittle deeper into him. I just liked

(40:44):
Gaines and that the first time Iwatched him, I saw an NFL lineman
right away. Just everything he doeschecks the box other than consistency, and
that's why he's a Day three pick. But again, you talk about someone
that could pay multiple spots, hemight. He's one of the few that
probably could play all five positions onthe line. You're going to see him
snap the ball at the next level. I think he's going to settle in

(41:06):
that center or guard. But thefact that he can do everything gives him
a huge step up some of theothers guys. So is a guard,
maybe he makes a transition to center, He's never done it before. Gains,
I just think if he can geta little bit more consistent, clean
up some of the technique, everythingthat he does wrong is very teachable.
We see it all the time.If he hits his upside, he's going

(41:28):
to be a starting guard or centerat the next level. Yeah. I
really like Gains. He's definitely themore polished out of the two, and
coming out of a larger program likeUCLA, I think he's definitely an easier
hit thing. Somebody coming out ofEastern Michigan, who I don't know if
they're going to have the mental fortitudeto really make it at the NFL level.
Like, that's a pretty drastic jumpfor someone like him. But he

(41:50):
is a name that I've heard inscouting circles a lot, so I know
that, you know, there ismore consideration for him by comparison to what
the traditional media outlets are reporting.Yep. So on the offensive tackle front,
the first two guys were going tocover love them both to death,
would really found the table for theGiants to take either one of these guys,

(42:13):
and they are both incredibly versatile interms of their positions. I think
both the probably better at guard thantackle, but I think they're both coming
into this as tackles, so we'readdressing them as tackles. But Nick Salderberry
from Old Dominion and McLennan Curtis comingout of Chattanooga, who would you rather
have? So Salivary is the guythat I was talking about that could be

(42:34):
a center at the next level.Jim Naggie actually said this way early in
the fall, and this was Iremember reading this the day after I watched
Old Dominion play at Virginia and Ididn't know who Sali Varry was at that
point. I was watching Old Dominionto watch Coops the tight End and this
kid jumped off the screen. Andthat's one of my favorite things about scouting.

(42:55):
It happens every year. And I'mbiased towards these guys. Hey,
I did not too in to watchyou, but you caught my attention and
that was him and some length issues. Maybe I agree he'll probably go inside,
But again, this is the kindof guy that you get in on
your depth chart and you can fillin multiple backup spots and if you're a
Day three pick, he gotta offor something like that. I trust him
in that regard. More like that, I feel like his floor is higher

(43:19):
than Curtis. But if Curtis hitsthe ceiling, he's going to be a
very high level interior. I thinkhe's a guard. Like you said,
he came in as a tackle.You go back and watch Cole Stram's first
round pick. I remember last yearthe surprise first round of New England.
This kid at his best looked betterand that was a first round pick.
So there are some pundits that thinkmclenan Curtis is gonna be a Day two

(43:43):
pick. He's a little inconsistent,little sloppy sometimes. That body, that
body type, the high hit,long legs, long arms, actually is
a detriment if you don't have goodbalance, and that shows up from time
to time. Where Salvadari maybe notas long, maybe not as powerful,
but he doesn't make a lot ofmistakes. So if I want to develop
someone and hopefully you know, cool, get lucky, I'm going with Curtis.

(44:06):
But if I want to really reliablebackup, maybe even a guy that
could play center. I'm going togo with SALVADERI And coming out of the
Senior Bowl week, one of mybig concerns for Salavarry was Kenny handle of
stage. Like we're just talking aboutwith so out of Eastern Michigan, I
mean old Dominion, you know,like, yeah you got Koons, But
I mean tell me another guy who'scome out of Old Dominion as a blake,

(44:27):
you know what I mean. Buthe went into the Senior Bowl week
and absolutely rocked it. Yeah itlooks like, look he did, man,
he really did. And being ableto do that on that sort of
a stage goes a long way withme. I really have high aspirations for
that kid. But also not knockingCurtis at all because I think that he's
got a bit more to clean up. But man, is it there.
Yeah, we could certainly be abruiser at the Senior Bowl. When he

(44:52):
lined guys up, he got movingoff the ball. That's something to watch,
like, if you just want towatch something service level, not go
too deep. How much movement tothese guys got off the ball. He
was pushing at future NFL lineman twothree years off two three yards off the
ball, and it didn't even seemlike he was trying his hardest, like
he just he has a heavy contactguy with great length, and if everything

(45:12):
is lined up technique wise, hegets the job done. Yeah. I
think they both have a bright futurein the NFL and would not be upset
at all if either one of themlanded with Big Blue. Absolutely. Moving
on to more of the late daythree fringe undrafted free agent types at the
tackle position, Dalton Wagner coming outof Arkansas and Mason Brooks another old miss

(45:36):
lineman like Nick Broker. Who wouldyou rather have? I'm at Wagner guy,
I trust his Nope, Neither oneof these guys got to be very
excited to be on with you.They're not to me, They're just not
NFL lineman. But I trust Wagner'sfloor a little bit more than I do
Brooks. And Brooks kind of bouncedaround a little bit inside outside a couple

(45:59):
different programs. Wagner just had alittle more consistency to him. Yep,
Wagner looked really good at the Shrineball. He's a little tall, you
know, six eight, which Rossteglethe wrong way. These days and he
might be a little tight. Butat the same time, I think,
out of the two who could actuallyend up contributing to an NFL roster,
I'd have to lean Wagner. Yeah, So flipping to the defensive side of

(46:22):
the ball now, defensive end.Two guys who I'm super high on ended
Day two, early Day three,Zach Harrison from Ohio State Isaiah McGuire from
Missouri. Who would you rather have? There really similar players, to be
honest with you, and Yep,it's a tough thing for me to really

(46:44):
peg these two guys because I thinkHarrison is a higher upside athlete. I
mean the length of speed. Isaw Carlos dunlap in him a few times
at Hoose State. But McGuire hasvery similar tools, tested a little bit
better than I thought he would,and I think he's just a better football
player right now, technique, consistency, defending the run inside out. So
I'm gonna go with McGuire if Ihad to pick these two, even though

(47:06):
I will go on record saying ifHarrison hits his upside, he will be
a starting defensive end, where Ithink mcguires away was going to kind of
be like a number three, veryvaluable in the NFL, by the way,
but maybe just not as versable.But I trust him a little bit
more. Yeah, they're They're bothreally strong athletes. And I think in
a year where there isn't a tonof quality talent at the defensive end position

(47:30):
to drop off from like the firstround, the second third round seems kind
of steep in my eyes. Beingable to get hither of these guys in
the third round would be a prettystrong get for the Giants, who obviously
need death of that position. Yeah, some later round guys on the defensive
end side, Colby Wooden from Auburnand kJ Henry from Clemson. What do

(47:54):
you got on them? You know, it's funny, wouldn't I've had my
defense tackle stack all year, andyou know, I probably should have moved
him to edge. I didn't,though, But so as an edge defender,
Henry just as a pure edge passrusher, I like Henry Moore.
I just think he gets more pressureon the quarterback more consistently. He's got

(48:15):
better bend, and I think he'sgot more an array of pass rush moves,
meaning he goes in with the plan, but he also has a backup
plan, Wooden is a little bitmore valuable from a versatility perspective. He
played all over the line. Thisis someone I think the Giants are going
to give a hard look. Ithink he fits exactly what they like to
do ut front and he could playthree tech, he could play on the

(48:35):
outside, he could set the edge. So if I want more of a
versatile run defender, pass defender kindof, you know, move him around
chess piece, I like Wooden.But if I'm just like, hey,
I need an edge guy, Ineeds a little bit more pressure on the
edge. I trust Henry a littlebit more than I do. Wouldn't.
But I do think they're both verygood prospects, And it might depend on
what kind of scheme you run.Yeah, I think Wooden probably fits better

(49:00):
for the Giants at a high level, just given the position versatility between inside
outside and yeah, you know,being six four almost two eighty by comparison
to Henry, who's six four abouttwo fifty. You know, that extra
thirty pounds to go a long wayhuge might limit is his past rush ability,
wouldn't that is at the next level, But I think he was still

(49:20):
pretty good, even dominant from theinside in terms of his pass rushing Prouse.
So yeah, well we'll see howhe shakes out moving over to defensive
tackle. A guy who's been fluctuatinga bit on the boards. But I
really like a lot the kid Royout of lsu versus Byron Young from Alabama.

(49:42):
What do you got on those guys? Byron Young just says, unreal
length, unreal strength in his hands. And when you had that combination with
good ben, which he does,you're almost guaranteed to be a solid player
in the NFL. And didn't youget to know him as a person as
a player. You see what thecoaches say about him, hard work or
versatile, will put he'll he canbe put anywhere you want to put him

(50:05):
on the line, and he'll playat the high level. I trust him
on my team, just because schemesfluctuate all the time, right you get
a new decordinator. It seems likeevery three, four or five years you're
running a new kind of defensive frontor a new scheme, or the game
is changing. You need to moveguys around. Young is kind of like
timeless in that no matter what erahe plays in, no matter what scheme

(50:28):
he gets put into, he's gonnagive you at least a solid level play.
I don't see a superstar on him, but I don't see one in
Roy either. I do believe Roycan be a very solid run defender at
the next level. But Young givesyou a little bit more penetration, and
I like that. In today's NFL. I want my interior guys to be
able to penetrate when when I needthem too. Yeah, pretty similar in
terms of the size of both ofthem. You know six three, two

(50:52):
five. You know Roy coming offof a hamstring that limited his participation some
of the drills and everything throughout theprocess. But Byron Young tested faster than
him, and I think that willshow up on the tape. So I
agree with you. And being ableto get Byron Young in the mid rounds
pretty wild coming ahead of Obama inthat defensive line. We see this all

(51:14):
the year. I don't think enoughgets talked about with defensive linemen. You
see a lot of quality defensive linementthat start for a long time get picked
in that fourth fifth round range.If I if I ever get the time
to do this and I go intosome more like full time work with some
of the stuff, I want toshow people what rounds. The NFL starters
come from position by a position,and I think you'd be very surprised guys

(51:37):
that play the tackle from the insidethe tackle and on down defensively, a
lot of them come from Day three. And Byron Young just screams that to
me, the guy's going to bea start in the NFL and you can
get that day three. Sign meup. Yep, same man. Same
A couple later round guys in defensivetackle position. They're getting a good amount

(51:58):
of hype throughout the draft process.Stills from West Virginia and my man Broderick
Martin from Western Kentucky. Who wouldyou rather have out of those twos?
It seems like Stills has been aroundfor like nine years. I feel like
he's been he's been talked about.I mean, there's two of them,
right there are twin brothers that playat West West Virginia. This is the
more talented. One example of aguy that I think he's just going to

(52:21):
be not big enough to play inevery down role or even a rotational role
at the next level. Is Still. He kind of think he's topped out
at two eighty five, and Idon't think he's quick and sudden enough to
play at that size at the NFL, so maybe a backup caliber. I
do think broad Eric Martin is pickingup some steam. I was a little

(52:42):
late on him. I just startwatching him. The way I had to
do things this year with our ladsis I had to go all in on
offense basically until January February, soI had to play a little bit.
I had to play a little bitof catchup. I got everything I needed
to get done defensively, but Iwas late on Martin. I didn't really
start watching him until February. AndI tell you what, this dude is
big and he can move like hewas chasing some guys down from the no

(53:06):
tackle position to outside runs and Iwas like, you know, we're not
talking to Dexter Lawrence, but inthat same mold, it's like he kind
of just raised your eyebrows a littlebit in terms of like, wow,
I didn't think he could move thatwell. So if someone gets the right
you know, the right coach getstheir hands on him, he's someone that
could be one of those like TimSettle type interior guys that yes he's a
rum plug, he can man twogaps, but he will make plays away

(53:28):
from the football. So I'm gonnago with Martin just based on upside.
Yeah, I agree with you.I love Martin and a fantastic and dominant
week at the Shrine Bowl. Imean, was just throwing people around in
that game, and he kind ofhis ascension has reminded me a bit of
Grover Stewart. Yeah, who It'sa great example, was a later round
guy who ended up, i think, going in the fourth round of the

(53:49):
goals. So, yeah, Martin'sa guy who could certainly see his stock
rise more than people are anticipating.Ye moving to linebacker, go inside linebacker
real quick. And I know we'rerunning up on time here, so we'll
probably just have to stick to somequicker responses on these. But sure,
Owen Papal and Ivan Pace, whowould you rather have between those two?

(54:13):
I'm Pace all day. I thinkPace is one of the top five linebackers
in this class. I think he'sone of the hardest guys to block.
I think he's one of the mostviolent bowling balls in the class. Terrible
against the past, I'll admit that. I hope, I hope he can
get a little bit better there.But he's a train wrecking coverage. He's
just a downhill guy, but someonethat makes the amount of plays behind a
line of scrimmage that he did atMiami of Ohio and Cincinnati that translates the

(54:36):
NFL very well plays behind a lineof scrimmage for linebackers. So I'm going
Ivan Pace Junior all day. Okay, Then the later round guys and Fairy
Orgy and Mohammed Diabate, who wouldyou rather have? Good question, very
similar situations, better athletes than footballplayers. I think I saw a little
bit more at Diabate that I wouldtrust that he can evolve in two an

(55:00):
actual linebacker at the next level.I'm a little bit more confident in his
ability to do that. Yeah,I really like Diabat, And if you
can get him in the seventh round, I mean that's absolutely yeah. Chris
explosive, very fast, explosive guy. It would be one of those late
round win guys. Yeah, youknow, that's exactly what he does.
He finds late round linebackers all thetime and he turns into the quality football

(55:22):
players. And both those guys fitthat profile that he only goes after exactly
so on the outside linebacker front,a guy who I don't know why his
stock is a little bit higher onthe public eye by comparison to what it
seems like it is in scouting circles. Jeremy Banks. And then another guy
who I really liked that a greatweek of practice of the senior bolt didn't
play in the game, Demur andOvershan from Texas. Who would you rather

(55:45):
there? Banks is a troublemaker offthe fields. He's had a lot of
a lot of issues at Tennessee andI don't I don't know if he's he's
all there to be honest with youso and sometimes I'll be honest with you.
I think some guys, some teamswant that at defense, guys are
going to kind of eat glass andwant to beat the crap out of you.
But I like Overshon. He's justas talented athletically, doesn't have the

(56:06):
ideal body type. He's a littleslender, but he's smart, a lot
of experience, and I think he'smuch better against the past than Banks.
Banks is a special teamer. Onlyto me, overshone can do a little
bit more and I trust him offthe field. Yeah, I love over
And if you can get him inthe fourth rounds, that's pretty good draft
value in my eyes. Lonnie Phelpsand Isaiah Land two smaller guys at the

(56:32):
position, but high upside players.So who would you rather have? I
mean, Lands a record setting passrusher, but he's not able to play
the edge of the next Elvis isnot big enough. So at the Senior
Bowl they put him at inside linebackerand he did well. I'll tell you
what he like. If you canget a role for him as an inside
linebacker and occasionally put him on theedge and certain pass rush looks, he's

(56:52):
got something. Phelps, on theother hand, has the size. Another
Miami of Ohio guy that's transferred tothe big twelve. Uh And Lonnie Phelps
he's probably the best pure special teamer. He's someone I made a tweet the
other day. He's someone that Iwould spend day fifth round pick on to
play special teams because I think heI think he could be that disruptive and

(57:14):
it'll it'll be sustainable over the multipleyears. And I don't care what anyone
says, I feel. I thinkspecial teams play is vital to winning in
the NFL. So um and yeah, he can rush the passion a little
bit. He's got He's got sometools, he's got some juice to him.
So puff call here. But I'mgonna go with the size. I'm
gonna go with Lonnie Phelps. Yeah, I agree with you. Lonnie's got

(57:35):
a crazy motor that just doesn't slowdown. That matters. It does matters.
So moving along to cornerback. Um, a couple of guys, who
are you know, fringe day today three types? Eli Ricks from Bama,
Riley Moss from Iowa. Who wouldyou rather go with Riley Moss every
day? No? Like, noquestion there. Um. Moss is one

(58:00):
of the best, most underrated athletesat the position when you're looking at quickness,
agility, coordination, timing. Ithink he's got some of the best
ball skills, and I think hecan play multiple spots. I think he
played everywhere in the secondary. Ithink he plays safety and nickel outside.
Those guys are invaluable the Giants flaws. Julian Love a college corner that played
safety, and Nicol kind of playedwherever the team. Meeting them too at

(58:22):
a pretty high level. I thinkthe Giants are gonna miss him a lot.
Moss is the guy that if youdraft him round four, you have
Julian Love right there and outstanding value. Moss is one of the guys I'm
targeting for the Giants in this draft, no matter what. It could be
round three, you know, roundthree or four. I would love to
see him in Giants uniform. Ontofree safety. Chris Smith versus Jamie Robinson.

(58:43):
Who would you rather have? Thisis a tough one because again,
there I like these He's making methink, you know, because they're just
they're different players. I'm gonna gowith I'm gonna go with Robinson. I
think the upside tire much more physical. I'm very confident he's going to add
on special teams. Smith he's obviouslyincredibly small and he didn't time as well,
so that matters to me that ifyou're not gonna time very well,

(59:06):
I mean, his instincts are offthe charts. I trust him a lot.
Smith and coverage, but I'm gonnago with Robinson, just a better
athlete that will add more on specialteams and later on. Anthony Johnson versus
Jay Ward? What do you gotJay Ward? Because of the versatility,
he played so many different positions andperformed so many different roles and you really

(59:27):
didn't see a drop off no matterwhat so you're just saying, Hey,
I trust this kid, Let's gethim in our room. Let's figure out
where he works best, what ourscheme needs the most. And like Roddy
Moss, injury pops up here,Shift word over. Injury pops over over
there, Shift word over. Ireally like Ward. I don't know why
he's being projected like six seventh roundat this point given his versatility, but
he might damn all go higher inthe actual draft. We'll see. I

(59:50):
agree with you. I think theNFL will like him more than the media
has yep. So then wrapping uphere with strong safety Gayere Brown from Penn
State, k Von Merriweather from Iowa. Where you're going with I'm going with
Brown from Penn State. You know, he proved that he can be a
playmaker. I think he had sixinterceptions last year. You know, he's
playing X to Jaquant Brisker and lastyear and I didn't. You can make

(01:00:15):
the argument that Brown was a betterplayer and brisk grad a really good rookie
season with the Bears. Brown isa guy that I think will play better
in the NFL than he did incollege. And he's a little bit of
a risk taker, which can begood and bad kind of Emmanuel Forbes tight
where when he gets his right,he looks awesome. When he gets his

(01:00:35):
wrong, he doesn't have the makeupspeed to make up for it. So
but I trust that if you canget him in the right system and not
make him too responsible for too muchspace, I believe that he could just
do more for your football team.Where Mayweather I really kind of just see
as a run defender only fair enoughand then later round at the strong safety
position. Trey Dean versus Daniel Scott, Who are you going with? Daniel

(01:00:59):
Scott's my guy there, Dean.I loved on tape again. This is
another one for I've been watching himfor two years anticipating him coming out and
initially a guy that plays downhill,hard, versatile nicol safety played at some
outside corner as well. The speedisn't there, and in the NFL it's
going to get crushed. Where DanielScott plays quicker, plays fast, or

(01:01:19):
plays smarter, has a little bitmore versatility to him in terms of not
positional but just his skill set.He's great in coverage, he's a great
tackler. He's good downhill, he'sgood in zone. He's good in man.
He was a late addition to theSenior Bowl, and that was when
I really started to turn onto him. So I really started watching his film
after that point, and I reallyI thought he was almost like a Riley
Moss, just a little bit kindof lesser version of him, but the

(01:01:43):
same flavor of the player. Yeah, I think Danielcott's gonna impress a lot
of people in the next level.I know Naggie's infatuated with him, so
yeah, you see where he lands. But so thank you for taking a
deep dive on the these day threeprospects. It was a blast chat and
through all these with you. Iknow we heard a lot for the listeners
here, and I'm sure that dayT is looking down at us with a

(01:02:04):
big grint on his face and we'retalking about all these guys that I know
he was always into. But thankyou so much for making the time on
a busy draft week here to spendsome time with us going through these prospects.
And you know, we'll look forwardto having me back on another show
soon. Hell yeah, man,we'll talk after the draft. All right.
Sounds good. So I appreciate you, Matt, Thank you too. Later say