The Legend Paul Dottino Stops By

Dave Del Col is joined by first time guest Paul Dottino from the Giants broadcast network. They have a spirited conversation about different ideologies and how the Giants blueprint should look. Covering almost every position group on the team, it's a debate you won't want to miss. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to another edition of the Scouts on her podcast.
I'm your host Dave del Cole, and I'm thrilled to
be joined today by our new guest, a legend in
the game having consistently covered the Giants since nineteen eighty
three from the Giants broadcast team and w fan Paul Detino. Paul,
welcome to the show. Really appreciate you making the time, Pal.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Oh, Dave, glad to do it. Good to talk to
you get today.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah. Absolutely. We were chopping it up a bit beforehand
about Dave T. Thomas, since this was his show. Yeah,
and I had asked Paul, does the name ring a bell?
And Paul certainly knew quite a bit about Dave T.
So his memory continues to live on. And we were
joking about his old draft Bibles and how big they

(00:44):
were and broken.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Up arms are still aching from carrying those big offensive
and defensive books around.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yup, he was. He was a hell of a guy,
thorough as they come. And yeah, we miss him greatly
this time of year, but great to chat with somebody
else who cross paths with him back in the day.
So that was that was a fun banter we had
but to jump into what our listeners want to hear about.

(01:13):
You know, I think one of the biggest questions on
my mind, and being inside the building yourself here you
definitely have some semblance understanding, which obviously you can only
share so much of what you know. But the thought
of they have to force a quarterback this year to

(01:35):
give themselves a leash for the next couple of years,
I don't understand the rationale behind that. Uh As far
as I'm concerned, Shane and Dave Ball being retained off
the back of last year coming into this year is
an indication to me that they've got a leash of
a couple of years, because if you tell them it's

(01:56):
this year win or bust, then of course they're going
to have to force a quarterback because they know that
that buys the more time to develop the quarterback. And
the way that Joe Shane said recently at the owners
meeting that we want to give ourselves options to do whatever,
I have to think that they've got more of a
leash than people are leading on, which gives them the

(02:17):
capacity to build the roster more long term than immediately
needing to win this year. What are your thoughts on
that whole subject.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Well, I agree with you and I don't agree with you.
I will say this, they don't have to force a quarterback,
And Joe Shane has set that flat out that by
signing Winston and Wilson and retaining the veto. They have
three quarterbacks in the room and they don't have to
force one at any pick, not just the first round.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
They don't have to force.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
One anywhere if value does not meet when they draft.
That's perfectly sound strategy. Understand why people look at him
like he's got three heads?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Since since when does it make sense to force somebody
way above where his grade.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Is at any time?

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Who thought that was a good draft philosophy?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well, and off the back of last year too, when
it was a quote unquote better quarterback class compared to
this year. They had all these options in the first
round and later and they passed on all them. So
to me, if they passed on him last year, why
are they going to force it this year? It just
doesn't make any kind of sense.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
So in that regard the whole phrase that they have
to force a quarterback, I'm totally totally against that.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Now here's what I will say.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
I do believe that their strong preference is to draft
a developmental quarterback later on in the draft, whether it
be late second day or even early third day. You know,
you'll recall some years ago, and I don't know how

(04:10):
far back you want to go or how far back
your listeners go. But in the fourth round, the Giants
drafted Dandy Canal out of Florida State, who wound up
becoming air starter in nineteen ninety seven and led them
to the NFC East Division title and a playoff spot. Now,
he did not have a particularly strong arm, but he

(04:32):
had intangibles, He was well liked, and he had that
one really good season when he got injected into the
starting lineup. Now, long term, it didn't work out very
well for him because he didn't have the complete toolbox
to be a long term NFL starter. But you can
certainly draft one in the middle rounds and take a

(04:56):
stab where it doesn't cost you a ton if you miss.
You take a third or fourth round guy, Yeah, that's
a valuable pick. But the Giants have five picks in
the first one hundred and five selections this year, So
if you take one at ninety nine or at one
oh five or at the beginning of the third round

(05:17):
in the sixties.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know what, it's a little bit of a roll
of the dice, but it's not a huge gamble.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
But if you take one at the top of the
first round, top of the second round, or top of
the third round, and you're wrong, as quite frankly, at
least half the quarterbacks taken in the NFL draft turn
out to be nothing.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yep, boy, is that a.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
High price to pay? Yeah, you're gonna be bleeding for
a long time.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
So then how do you how do you justify allocating
that draft capital to the quarterback position when you just
signed two vets and you've got a bunch of holes
on your roster and a bunch of needed depth. There's
so much quality talent, yes, round two, round three, round four,

(06:06):
that could fill some of these other spots we got,
and you're gonna take a quarterback to develop them behind
two veterans.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
I think if they, if they have their druthers, yep,
there will be a quarterback that they think is worth
rolling the dice on halfway.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
And when I say that, I'm talking like third or
fourth round. And if look, if Tyler Shuck is there
out of Louisville in the third round. I could see that.
I could see them picking com McCord out of Syracuse
in the third or fourth round, because those guys have
enough of protraits. Heck, I could even see them picking

(06:49):
Jackson Dart if they wanted to, but they'd have to
get him, probably at the bottom of the first round.
They probably have to move to get him. I really start,
I think darts of prospect. I think Chuck and McCord
are projects. Those are two different levels.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Now.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
The only reason I say that is because of this.
Wilson signed to a one year deal.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
I know they signed Winston to a two year deal.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
YEP.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Now, if a rookie quarterback is drafted, he will stick
on the fifty three as the third quarterback.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
De Veto is either going to get waved and go to.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
The practice squad as the fourth stringer, or he's gonna
get waved and claimed by somebody else.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Sure, Now, in a perfect world.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
If you go with the Dart or one of the
other two guys who I happen to like for them,
that guy will never see the field. He will strictly
be a third stringer who will red shirt as an
NFL rookie, but if you believe in dables developmental skills,
and we saw what he did with Tommy DeVito, who

(08:03):
was an undrafted rookie free agent and actually quarterbacked the
Giants well enough that they won three straight games with
him when he came out of nowhere. Well, New Jersey's
not nowhere. But you know, I don't want to disrespect
the Garden State.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Oh no, of course, of course you have Seanalo coming
after you. That's right with the hat, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
So you know, I think there's value in taking a
developmental guy if you don't take him too high, because
this way the kid would sit for a full season,
never play. You got your two veterans. Hopefully Wilson stays
healthy for the full year and get you back to

(08:47):
respectability somewhere where you're playing games in December, still being
alive in the wildcard chase, you know, and hey, if
everything falls right, maybe you wind up right in that
five hundred area.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Maybe with a couple of games to go, maybe you're
still in it come January first.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Hey, who knows? Who knows?

Speaker 2 (09:12):
But the point is, if Wilson plays well and plays
the season out, or even if he misses a game
or two, Winston comes in. Let the kid red shirt.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
For a year. Now, here's the good news.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
If you pick a developmental guy, if Wilson gets hurt
or gets off to a bad start, you won't hear
the cat calls from angry fans who are gonna scream
that the.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Third overall pick needs to start next week. Do you
really think the team needs that distraction?

Speaker 1 (09:48):
No, of course not. And the pr leading up throughout
the rest of the offseason, in the preseason, all the
media oppundents are just gonna be chirping about when are
we gonna see this guy at the field. He makes
me that's good, and practice in the preseason in his
shorts and his T shirt and everybody's going to be
in enough roar.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
So how does that help?

Speaker 1 (10:08):
It doesn't. But then why take a developmental guy at
all this year? Why not just punt quarterback to next year?
And then if you want to take a high round
guy or a developmental guy, you see what you have
in Wilson and Winston and then you recalibrate next year.
But you build the depth in the other positions.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
And I get that, because one of my options is
don't take a quarterback at all. I think that's a
viable option. Yep, I honestly do. I think that is
a viable option. But if you were to take one,
and I think they favored taking a developmental one this year,
I do think they prefer to.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Do it, but I don't think they're going to force it. Yep.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
But let's just say that their grading system says when
they pick third round, let's say Shuck is right there
at the grade where their slot is, there's nothing wrong
with taking them. If the great matches the slot, the
values there, it's not a reach, go ahead and take him.
Because here's what you do. You tell everybody immediately, he's

(11:10):
a developmental quarterback.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
We just used a third round pick on him. We
have two veterans. Everybody pipe down and be quiet. He
is going to hold the clipboard. In fact, he's not
even going to get an active jersey on Sunday. He's
gonna be our third quarterback.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yep. Well, then the worst case stop worst case scenario
two in that context is Shuck Howard McCord. Whoever ends
up being the backup to another guy you end up
drafting later down the road when you move on from
Wilson and Winston, and then that still gives you some

(11:49):
flexibility exact any in that room.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
So worst case is you've got a red shirt quarterback
who's already had a year in your system, and maybe
he'd comes a long term backup for you after Wilson
and Winston are gone.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Right, because they're on short contracts.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
There's nothing wrong with that. No, that works, But.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
How does that help us win? Now?

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Well?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Good?

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Well, good scenario is what if that developmental guy who's
sitting there and and he's your red shirt guy for
a year, what if now at the end of the year,
you know, Wilson does well, he gets you back to respectability,
but for whatever reason, you can't reach a new deal
with him. Well, at least now you've had you don't

(12:35):
have to automatically go to Jameis Winston just in case
you can't get anybody else and you don't want to
just turn the keys over to Winston. Maybe the developmental
guy showed you enough during.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
His red shirt year excuse me, that you might want
to let him compete.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
For the job. Yeah, I mean it would certainly end
up being a cantaut one way or the other.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
So anyway, and The only reason that I even go
there is because they have five picks in one O
five yeap. Otherwise I would be even saying, don't even
think about it.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, I'm in the camp of I don't want a
quarterback at all. This year. You got these two guys
punted on quarterback. See how the dominoes fall for you
next year, and then recalibrate accordingly based off of what
you see out of the two veterans you sign this year.
Build more depth, build in the trenches. There. You know,

(13:31):
it's a really good defensive line year. Let's grab a
couple defensive linemen. It's a good running back year. It's
grab a running back. Tight End is a need, cornerback
is a need, right inside linebacker is in need. We've
got all these other holes that we need to fill.
I'd rather fill those up and then deal with quarterback
next year. It's not what Giants fans want to hear,

(13:51):
because they want a youthful guy that they can get
excited about. But I'm just not convinced that any of
these developmental prospects have the ceiling to turn in. Which granted,
like you know, the whole adage of Tom Brady was
you know, a late round guy, and he didn't have
the measurables, and he didn't have this, and he didn't
have that. So you could catch lightning in about you

(14:12):
never know, right, Fine.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
But the Cowboys that won a lot of games with Prescott,
the Seahawks won a lot.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Of games with Russell Wills. It can it can be done.
But I mean, do you that's where you end up
with the all right, So what's the bar you're trying
to hit though? Is making the playoffs and losing in
the playoffs every year? What you're trying to get to,
like you know, Dak Prescott. Fine, but I don't want

(14:39):
that level of complacency. I want the home run. I
want the Josh Allen, the Patrick Mahomes, the guy that
I know is gonna have me winning at least a
couple playoff games on a regular basis going forward. And
I just don't see that out of any of these
guys this year. Or it making sense to go.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
H, Dave, we're gonna we're gonna have a in the
road on this one. The sun Man, here's where I agree.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
I was all in on drafting Justin Herbert the year.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
He was supposed to come out, okay, because I thought
he was that good.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Huh uh.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
And he decided not to come out, and he stayed
another year, and then the Giants could not take him. Yep,
all right, they were not in position to do it.
I think there are very few and this is why
they call them elite quarterbacks. There are probably only four
or five in the league at any given time who

(15:35):
are that good. So to put your standard on.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
It, it's it's it's irrational because eighty five ninety percent
of the teams are never going to get a chance
to touch one of those guys.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
But isn't that how we got Eli Manning Well in
the trade? Right? Because they were sold on the guy.
The timing was perfect. They didn't force somebody ahead of that.
You had Kerry Collins, you had Kurt Warner, you had
like all this stuff in between. But when you saw
the guy, when the time was right, you went and
got him. You won super Bowls. I just feel like,

(16:12):
if you want to live in this purgatory of all right,
we'll take somebody and we'll win some playoff games and fine,
but uh, I'll pun on quarterback for the next three
years if it means that I'm gonna get the next
elite guy that can help me build a dime.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, but those elite guys are so few and far
between the chances of get one. I mean, if you're
gonna go by the philosophy that you have to have
an elite quarterback, then basically about twenty seven teams in
this league should fold up their tents and not even.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Play the skin.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
No seriously, I know that's the mentality that I get.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
From the angry fan base that insists on you've got
to get an elite quarterback. You've got a draft one
in the first few picks to get that future Hall
of famer.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Well, guess what, only four of those guys in the
league right now, maybe five if you want to extend
the list to five. So why don't we just have
a season this year where those five teams play and
everybody else not even bother selling tickets.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
I'm not saying they got to be a top five pick, right.
You know, Mahomes was a mid round guy. Lamar Jackson's
end of the first guy. If you have the conviction
on a Dart or a mill Row or any of
these folks, I'm I don't care where you take them,
But you have to have that level of conviction in

(17:33):
the player.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
And I agree with you there.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah, you have to be all in, especially on a
quarterback or if you're picking that high in the draft.
If you're not all in on the guy, do not
take him. You have done a disservice to your entire
organization if you are not all in on the guy.
So that is a total different philosophical question.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
That's more where I'm at. I'm not saying that we
got to wait until we're picking in the top five
some year down the road and the general because most
of the time the top guys suck anyway, they don't
pan out. It's more of an anomaly that you get
somebody in the top five that turns into Josh Allen.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Was in the top five, you know, it was a
huge Josh Allen thing too.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, that was the year man.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
That was the Hey, here's what I'll tell you, though, Dave,
I think that you know, while you wait over the years,
because again, very few that the year when two thousand
and four came up and Rivers and Ben and Eli,
you know, turned out to be a trifecta in the
first round for those three franchises. You know, that just

(18:41):
does not happen very.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Often, right, So to me, I'm a very much believer
in Kerry Collins got the Giants to a Super Bowl,
had one of the greatest NFC Championship games, if not
the greatest NFC Championship game in.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
The history of quarter I was a huge Carry Collins guy.
Quite frankly, I wanted the Giants to draft Robert Gallery
from the you know the Raiders got him. I thought
they'd have been better off keeping Carry Collins, thinking he
could have got them back to another Super Bowl if
they had just gotten him a stud tackle to help

(19:19):
protect him with that with a better offensive line. I
personally was against going for a quarterback because I thought
Collins was good enough. If I told you that they
could get a developmental quarterback, let's say one of the
guys that I named, or one of the guys you
named had an upside of Kerry Collins, You're gonna tell

(19:39):
me you wouldn't take that.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
It depends. It depends on where I'm at in the
organization and what I'm trying to accomplish, and what the
state of my organization has been lately. You know, because
if you can get back to Super Bowl contention. Fine,
that's a difference story, But just making the playoffs, winning

(20:03):
one playoff game, that's where I've got a problem. And
that's where most teams get caught, right, where you just
live in this endless cycle of mediocrity. Right, and now
you know, you go thirty years, you don't win a
Super Bowl and you're fan.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
But Dave, how many teams realistically, because of this quarterback
theory that you have to have an elite quarterback? How
many how many teams realistically you have a chance to
win the Super Bowl each and every year the way
we're going.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Now, probably half a dozen if that. Yeah, But I
wanted to just.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Get yourself a quarterback who can make you a playoff
team and at least be happy and ride that out
for a while.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Well, but that's that's the thing is that I find
them we're selling tickets and the money's coming in, and
the jerseys you're selling and this and that. But I
would if we're I go back to what Dave t
taught me. Right, this is how and it is unique.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
It's funny because you and I actually in principle agree
we may not have the same reasons but neither one
of us think the Giants should take a quarterback at three,
Which is funny because here we are debating something and
we're actually on the same side of the fence.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Well, it's I'm saying kick the can down the road.
You're saying, get a development guy to at least cushing
the blow and maybe you catch lightning in a bottle
and things go out for you. Because I think that's
what they're thinking.

Speaker 5 (21:31):
Right, and that should be what they're thinking, because we've
been in such turmoil for so long that you got
to do something to head, you know, and if it
doesn't work out, then try to get in it and
then you know what they.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Just to be just to be kind of logical about it.
And never know even the projections of five first round
quarterbacks in the twenty twenty six draft, which is what
I've heard some some of the draft gurus. You also
never know exactly how that's going to play out. So
if you take a flyer on a developmental guy.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
Who you have at least some belief in in the
middle rounds and you have them in your system for
a year, and if Wilson wins enough games so that
this administration can stay and.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Work with the kid.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
Well, you know what, maybe by twenty twenty six, even
though the kid red shirts, maybe he'll be as good
or better than any of those prospects will.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah. No, it hedges your bet. I hear you, and
it makes logical sense. I am just a stubborn mule
and don't want to do it. And I get that.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
I get that because I am not a huge risk taker.
And unfortunately, there's always gonna be a segment of the
folks out there who are gonna want to shoot for
the moon and forget the consequences.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
And there'll be high risk, high reward people and they'll
just throw all logic to the wind and say you
have to do this. Well, any time, that's so, nobody
goes into a draft of free agency and says you
must do this. Well, what they're telling you is they
haven't truly thought about all the ramifications.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
So my actual game plan, to give you more of
the perspective, is, instead of utilizing a third or fourth
round pick on a developmental quarterback, I would rather take
an offensive lineman m hm, a defensive somebody that is
going to either help me protect my quarterback or get

(23:32):
after the opponent's quarterback and load up in those areas
where we have been there, because then I'm setting up
a fortified unit to bring a rookie in later. Right,
you bring up, say we didn't sign Wilson or Winston
and then we draft cam Ward. Say we didn't beat

(23:54):
the colder draft cam Ward, or you take Sanders three, whatever.
Then Andrew Thomas gets hurt again. I mean, what are
we doing here, Paul?

Speaker 3 (24:04):
You're right, Hey, Look, there's no doubt in my mind,
and I think it's the consensus. Cam Ward is the
only really solid quarterback prospect in this draft that that has,
you know, red chip qualities, not blue chip. He's not
blue chip. He's a red chip and he's far better

(24:25):
than any of the other quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
All right.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
I personally think Jackson Dart would be second for me, Okay,
but I don't have him next to Ward. Ward is
still he's the best of the group. If the Giants decided,
you know what, Ward's the only guy that we have
that kind of faith in, and we don't think anybody
else in this quarterbacks class even deserves half of a hedge,

(24:52):
then you are absolutely right they should not touch any
of them.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yep. Building the trenches. That's my mantra, because this is
what Dave t taught me is you've got to build
in the trenches. Then you build out. You get your
quarterback when it makes sense where the value meets your
board and all that, and then you add skilled players,
secondary players, all that.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
But it goes back to Shane's comment that he's not
going to force a quarterback, right and I and I
think he's telling you the truth.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
I think the only way he takes one is if
later on in the draft the value meets the draft slot.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
If that happens, Dave, you can't criticize him for.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
That, No, not at all.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
If the value meets the draft slot, then that means
you did the logical thing.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
That's why you build a board in the first place. Exactly.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Yeah, we're really kind of on the same page, we are.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
For sure, and we could talk quarterback uh forever, but
let's let's move on to some other, some other areas
so our listeners have a diversified show here. You know,
I was kind of saying before, I think offensive line
is a huge need. Injury concerns revolving door there. John

(26:06):
Michael Schmidz is a guy that I feel like gets
such a bad rap from fans and media people that
he's a bust already and he's had revolving doors around him,
injuries on this line, different coaches, all these things. Yep,
I'm still a real believer in John Michael Schmidt's abilities.
I like his leadership qualities and all this. What's your

(26:29):
take on the offensive line and the fact that you know,
I always say we need to continue to invest in
the offensive line, and then the argument I always get
from other people is, what we have invested in the
offensive line and it hasn't worked. Okay, fine, but we
need to hold ourselves accountable that it hasn't worked. It's
still going to fix the problem. So yeah, is there
going to come a point where we stop doing the

(26:54):
bubblegum duct tape every free agency year with some low
to mid grade veterans that come in for a couple
of years and then they don't really do as much
as everybody gets optimistic about. Up front, you got to
build through the draft in the trenches and all these

(27:14):
like last year we didn't take a single person in
the trenches, which just absolutely blew my mind. But I
would love to, particularly with our hit rate on offensive
linemen in the last call at five to six years,
we need to draft double time on offensive line just
to give ourselves a chance to get it right. So,
at what point do you think that this team will

(27:37):
start to make a meaningful investment in that unit because
that helps develop the rest of the offense, develop a
young quarterback. There's so many factors of the game that
stem from that, and we continue to neglect it. And
it's one of my biggest, if not my biggest pain
point with this team as of late.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
All Right, so I agree that the trenches need to
be addressed. It is my belief they need to come
out of this draft with two defensive linemen yep, one
offensive lineman.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
That's how I feel. I'm more concerned about the defensive line.
I think they need two of them. I think they
need a three technique defensive tackle and a plugging, hulking
defensive tackle and anchor defensive tackle. So I want one
of each, Okay, And there's so much depth in this draft.
There's no reason why you can't get two of them.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Oh absolutely, you have three of them that might be
a little overkilled. Two defensive tackles and then a defensive end,
because that's also a position that we could use an
upgrade on.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, but I think I think they really are very
high on Golston. They they love that signing, and I'm
I'm hearing a lot of optimism in the UH in
the building about how he's just now entering his prime
and he's ready to have a total breakout season.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
I could see that.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
I don't think Dallas was too happy to lose them either,
but they got so much cap issues they were in
a position they could really resign them.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
So how do you feel about our pass rush right now? Though?
Because you got Thibodeau, who's like kind of up and down,
you gotta earn in it, like, but behind these guys
there isn't much so we still need you look back
at the Super Bowl that wouldn't you.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Got you gotta try to take an edge rusher at
some point too? That yep, So that I don't think
you got to take one of the first two rounds though.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
No, I look, there should be.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Good value of the edge rushers in the middle of
this draft.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Absolutely, and defensive tackle late in this draft you can
get I.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Had an edge rusher, where is the guy I was
thinking of I'll give you a couple of names, please,
good edge rushers in the middle rounds of this year's draft. Okay,
let me just take a look at my notes here
for one quick second.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, no problem, I got I gotta bunch myself, all right.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think I think they're gonna be there. And it
comes down to this, Uh, you could probably look at
somebody like a Kyle Kernard. You could look at somebody
You could look at somebody like potentially.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Oh, I don't know how how how much Birch is
gonna drop out of Oregon?

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yep? Probably a third round guy.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
You know.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
And and again to me, third round, late late third round.
I don't know if he's going to get to the
late third, but i'd certainly probably jump on him there. Okay, Uh,
those are the kinds of guys I probably would talk
about if I was going to be talking, you know. Uh,

(30:44):
mid round edge guy Tyler Barron out of Miami.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
I love Tyler Baron.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Now, he I think is gonna be a good value
down low.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
I don't think he's gonna get drafted as high as
as you know you think of Miami Hurricanes.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
No, I think he's going to fall. I think he's
a fourth round guy out of him. Yep, yep, you so, yes.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
I would definitely take one of those guys, especially because
Tippudeau has been up and down at risk surgery last year.
I'm going to pick up his fifty year option if
you're the Giants. I do believe that doesn't necessarily mean
that he's going to get extended after that. Yep, you
might as well grow one of those edge rushers if
you can't get the sea.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
And this is where I would rather take one of
those guys over a quarterback and see what's still development
I get out of them. I can't like Ola Dajo,
the kid out of UCLA had a fantastic senior ball.
I don't know if you've watched much of his tape,
but he's still kind of as an outside linebacker converted
to a defensive end. Incredibly long arms. I think he's

(31:49):
got like thirty four inch arms, and he's still developing
as a pass rusher. But not the fastest guy in
the world. But somehow he finds his way into the
backfield on a pretty consistent basis. And he's one of
those guys Princely Meleean yep, another one, just like so, yeah,
there's about.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
As as he's for sure out of Boston College.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah yeah, I'm not going to try to swing on that.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
I just and to be honest though, playing from a
bigger program like that, he's probably gonna go a little earlier.
And I don't know, I don't know how high Mike.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Green is going to go. Mike Green's got real character
concerns that I don't think people are factoring into the
equation here. I understand that I would.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Again, what I'm talking about here is just looking at video.
I don't have the personnel files, the medicals, so who knows.
But when I look at the tape of him in
his video, yeah, I could see him being, you know,
potentially a third round guy because he played at Marshall,

(33:01):
so it's subs the competition.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
But I know when he went to the Senior Bowl
he did real well.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yep. One guy I think is kind of an interesting
name that most people don't talk enough about. For the
giants at the top of the second round, as Jack
Sawyer out of Ohio State. This is a guy who
shows up on the biggest stages understood. You know, I'm
not as I'm not as high on him. I don't.

(33:28):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I don't like his toolbox as much.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, no, that's why he's falling out of the first
round on most anyway.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Yeah, to push that aside for a minute, back to
your question, yep, would would Would I at the top
of the second round take a stamp at Donovan Jackson
if he's sitting there. Yeah, I think I would do that,
so would you.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
On the topic of the offensive line, I think we
need a tackle desperately, be because of the injury history
with Andrew Thomas. I think Illuminor is more of a
swing tackle in my eyes. Everybody's pegging we need more
of a we need a right guard. You know. How

(34:12):
do you feel.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Jackson has guard taxle flexibility?

Speaker 1 (34:16):
That's what I would take. Yeah, No, same with like
the grays Abel. So That's what I'm getting at though,
is like more people, I feel like fans say we
need a guard center hybrid because what if John Michael
Schmidt's is a bust because everybody thinks he's I'd.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Rather have a guard tackle hybrid.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yep, you and me both.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
And Jack Jackson to me, you know, I know there's
look there there's there's guys who are gonna go in
the first round.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Campbell's gonna go in the first round. Membo is gonna
go in the first round. Banks is gonna go in
the first round. Booker is gonna go in the first
first round.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
The kid from Bridue, Marcus Mabou, yep. Uh, that's another
guy who's got guard tackle flexibility.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Yep, you know he'll be there.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
I think top of the second round is too rich
for him. Yeah, but look if he's sitting there at
the top of the third round, you know, would you
want to take a stab there?

Speaker 1 (35:12):
I don't think that's a problem. Well, and on the
flip side of like the defensive line, that's super deep.
Offensive line not nearly as deep this year. So if
you do need an impact player at that position, then
you're gonna need to prioritize it more so on day
one or day two.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Well, that's where it comes down to, how do you
feel about the numbers you have on your offensive line?
And this goes to your question before they went and
they signed two backup swing tackles during the offseason, Hudson
and the Forsyth forsythe from the Seattle Hudson Cleveland. They

(35:49):
signed them for a reason. They truly believe that they've
got a swing tackle out of Out of those two guys,
they've got Evan Neil, who they're going to cross train
now at guard and tackle. So that's three guys backups
at the tackle spot already. So they're going to consider
those numbers when they make this evaluation. They're also going

(36:13):
to consider now at guard. If you were to just say,
start Van Roten and uh runyon Ford's sake. Okay, they
brought back Stinny. Uh, they brought back a Zudu. Well
they kept them, they didn't bring him back. Okay, Uh,
they still have Kubas.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Just love Jake Kubas. North Dakota State is a powerhouse
of offensive Okay, who's to say that Jake Coubas can't
be Richie Sworid for two point zero?

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Sure, so maybe they don't even need another guard. Maybe
they've already got because Van Roden to me should be
the backup center if something happens to John Michael Schmidz
to me, Greg Van Roten gets that first call to center.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
I don't even worry about any backup centers. Bren Rhaden's
my backup center. Yep, that's what I would do. Okay,
Now you move him out of that spot.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
Like I just said in theory, you've got Neil, You've
got Kubas, You've got Stinny, and you've got a Zudu.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
You've got four guys.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
Now, I know none of them are gonna get you
excited right now, and I don't blame you, but those
are four guys.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
They got numbers.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
So if they decide that they don't want to take
alignment and this offensive lineman in the second round or
even the third round, and decide they're going to wait
until the fourth, well, they'll tell you Richie Soribert was
an undrafted rookie free agent. They'll tell you David Dial
was a fifth round pick.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Okay, do you have to take one in the first
three rounds?

Speaker 1 (37:56):
No? And look, there's a lot of guys out of
the Iowas of the world, the Wisconsin's of the world,
the North Dakota States of the world that you can
get on day three. I happen to like quite a
few of these guys. The Jack Nelson's, the Joe Hubers,
the Connor Colby's. You know, I'm not saying that they

(38:17):
need to prioritize it, but it depends on how you
value their current I look at our offensive line as
a continuous liability, and it is inevitable that somebody is
going to get hurt. It happens every single year. I
understand that, as much as I hate to say it.
It's the reality of the situation.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Corner an offensive line, the two most injured positions the
Giants have had in the last decade, and.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Two of our weakest positions. So at what point not now?
Corner's not that week. Now you got Paulson Adebo who's
coming off a broken leg. I believe in him. He's
a really good player. I believe in him too if
he stays healthy. But even a broken I mean that's
not broke his wrist, I don't care, but a you know,

(39:02):
get it, so it's still sketchy. Then you got Deontay Banks,
who knows how that's gonna I'm still a Banks guy.
I'm I'm optimistic with it. But those are two question marks. Right.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
We can hope all we want, but they start out
saying out there is reason for concern. I do like Flatt,
and I know he's had injuries.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Stick and stay healthy, you upstanding like Drew Phillips. But
then after these guys, who do you got Paul Well,
I'm hoping that Travis Hunter there three. Well, but then
you gotta address that position, right. So, and this is
my thing is that, Yeah, we need to add depth
at cornerback. We need to add depth at offensive line. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
See, but I don't know if Cortera's got to be
in the draft. Like when they picked up Fabian Moreaue. Okay,
he wound up starting the whole twenty twenty two season
and led them to the playoffs. I mean, nobody they
picked up Fabian Moreaue off the scrap heap. Nobody in
their right mind. He was brought into the practice squad
when he got signed. He was brought into the practice squad.

(40:03):
And then on a time it's like, oh, we got
guys getting hurt.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
This isn't working out. Fabian get in there. They couldn't
get him out of Atlanta. Yeah, no, I remember never you
remember Leon Hall. I remember when Fabian came out of
LSU and people were he was a mid round guy,
like we're talking, but he wasn't retained by who was
he with the commanders before us? Was it Atlanta? He

(40:30):
was at a couple different stats before us.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
But my thing is, these positions are liabilities. Wouldn't it
be nice to turn them into strengths for once?

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Like the one super Bowl team though, Dave, this team
is trying to crawl out of the quicksand and just
get back to respectability. The only thing I would say
to you is a lot of your demands.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Are like they They were a great wish list for
a team that's already five hundred and trying to advance
into the playoffs and maybe be a contender. Your wish
list is not realistic for a team where the giants
are the point.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
I want to build long term, and everybody's expectation is
we got to start winning more now, which I get
is what every fan wants that right, get out.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
You gotta crawl before you can walk.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
If you don't get out of the quicksand and get
back to respectability, to make that jump from the quicksand
to the treehouse in the sky, that's a lightning in
a bottle that just does not happen, I mean, and
then what it does like in twenty sixteen, right, it's
a one year hit and then what happens after that.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
I mean, the Lions were a disaster franchise and then
magically turned it around and they built in the trenches. Yeah, well,
and there's sustaining success.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
You know, they drafted extremely well over a three year period,
and they also were very very fortunate that they didn't
get really burned by any salary cap issues during that time.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Either. The Commanders are another one quick turnaround. They've built
through the trenches. Then they got their quarterback.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I'm not so sure that Washington's going to have.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
A great year this season.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Probably better than us, that could happen, But I'm not
so sure that they're going to have a great season.
I think they're taking a step back.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
I could certainly see it, but it's not to say
that it's impossible. Yes, I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
I think your wish list is way too big, That's
all I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Well, I again, I look at no but taking a
quarterback to be the third guy when I could try
to take another cornerback where if I have an injury
to one of my starters, I don't have a good
plan behind that, or an offensive lineman where if I
lose one of my starters and one of these swing

(42:55):
tackles doesn't work. I have a better plan behind that,
like I'd rather those risks by comparison.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
To your theory is not out of line.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
But you also now have to say, if you're them, yep,
the team's got to say, all right, how much better
are these middle round prospects than the guys we already
have in house? If they believe in house that stinny A,
Zudu Kubas are all better than any of the third

(43:31):
round offensive linemen in this draft, guess what, Dave, you
don't take any of them.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
I just can't convince myself that that's the case. But
you're right, Paul. If they believe it, then it's their
team they know better. Jail. There is one part of.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
This equation that I don't know if you're considering, and
that's Carmen Brisilla. He's only had one year to work
with this offensive line. Yep, and wow, the first choice
six weeks the last season. Now, I don't get involved
with the analytics people, I really don't. My eye test
says the Giants were at least middle of the pack,

(44:07):
if not even.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
A slightly above average offensive line. The first six weeks
of last year until Andrew Thomas got hurt and then
everything crumbled like a stale grain cracker.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Now this is my problem.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
I understand that, and John Mayer himself said offensive line
depth is one of his top three concerns. So I
don't fight that notion in any way. Look, if you
know anything about me forty.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Plus years doing this, I'm always about building up front.
I've been fighting for offensive linemen forever.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
But so I get it.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
But at the same time, I'm not so sure that
we're giving because we're getting hurt by the residue of
the last ten years and of all these other offensive
line coaches who have been turned around like a carousel.
I also believe that Carmen Brisillo last year was the

(45:03):
most important offensive line acquisition for the Giants.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
I don't believe that no turn the unit around. I'm
not negating that at all.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
But I mean, look what he did the first six
weeks of the season.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
That that offensive line went from worst, not just worst,
historically worse to.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Being at least middle of the pack right out of
the box. Yep. That's that's a pretty strong turnaround. But
that's why I want to go off season. Imagine if
you gave him a Will Campbell, you know, to be
like that.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
It's just you want to take Will Campbell at three.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
I'm not opposed to it. I wanted Joe Ault last year.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Wow, yep. I like Joe Ault a lot, but.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
I couldn't. I couldn't take him there. Here's the thing, Paul,
Imagine if we had Joe Ault last year, Thomas goes down, Oh,
no problem, We'll just throw Goult over there. I get you.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
And then I'm not saying that that that he wasn't
worth you know that he wasn't worth it. Yeah, I
personally believe that the Giants probably thought pretty strong about
Joe Walt, and I'm sure he was. I think it's
relatively logical to assume he was in their cluster of
picks in that spot.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I'm sure of it. Why would he be right? But
I don't blame them for what they did. No me either.
But again, this gets back to my point of like
every year, every fan I talked to, everybody wants offensive line.
You've been saying, singing it from the rooftops. I've been
screaming it, and we just continue to not do it.
And then we sign a couple guys in free agency,

(46:44):
like ForSight than Hudson, and then we say, oh, well,
we got some good guys and if somebody gets hurt,
those are not going to be They're not gonna There's
a reason they were free agents and let go from
their last teams. Okay, like, and you can tell me
it's cap whatever, but they didn't get enormous contracts. If
it's a premier offensive lineman that's demanding tens of millions

(47:05):
of dollars, let me ask you this. They went.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
They won a Super Bowl with Sean O'Hara, who was
a free agent and was primarily a guard with the Browns,
and they made him a center and he went to
three Pro Bowls and won a Super Bowl. Richie Cybert
was an undrafted rookie free agent, didn't go to a
Pro Bowl, but won a Super Bowl. David Dial was
a fifth round draft pick, went to the Pro Bowl,
won two Super Bowls. Kevin Booth was thrown out with

(47:32):
the Raiders giving up for nobody and without Kevin Booth
they don't win that second Super Bowl because he had
to come in and play center and then guard during
the final month and a half of the season and
the playoffs. I mean, you don't have to have a
first and second round pick.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
I'm not I'm not suggesting that they got to be
early round picks. I just want a lot more swings
of the bat on the offensive line, particularly. I don't
have a problem with that. Yeah, I don't, like I said,
I get frustrated.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
If they took one higher. But I also don't think
they should force it either.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
No. I but where we started this point of you said,
two defensive linemen, one offensive line.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, I'm more upset with the defensive line than I
am the offensive I would.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Love to and even if it's through undrafted free agency
like Kubis last year. Right, There's just we can't assume
that the free agents we bring in are going to
turn into those guys you just mentioned. We need to
hedge the bet more. We need to bring more youth
into the building and try to develop guys like if

(48:38):
you give Brisillo three more new offensive linemen to try
to develop this year. I like the odds on that,
you know, and we just haven't made. That's where I
get frustrated, is we do you know? And it just
it hasn't been.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
A strenchous guy.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
I get it. I'm not.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
I don't think I'm disagreeing with you again, as much
as you might think it sounds like a disagreeing I
don't think we're disagreeing as much. We may have a
little bit of a dissension in terms of I think
I I want to see.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
More, uh more value.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Placed on the D line right now than the old line,
because I think the D line is in worse shape
than the offensive line is. That's that's how I feel today.
I think I think that line is in real shape.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
And I think that there are four solid rounds of
at least rotational, if not starting, defensive linement in this draft,
and I'd love to get my hands on two of them.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Well, and at what point do we start getting proactive?
We talk about Thibodeau right, and you pick up his
fifty year option, but if he doesn't after that year
deserve a long term contract and you let him walk
in free agency, wouldn't it make sense to hedge that
bet earlier on, like this year, get a couple of
guys to room to develop, and then you're not expecting

(50:02):
everything out of a rookie when the shit hits the fan.
And then he moves on, and then you've got a
hole that you need to fill. I feel like we
are reactive and fill holes at a desperation because we
don't proactively get ahead of that curve. So I kind
of look at it like, hey, maybe set something up
where we know there's a potential that he's gonna go,

(50:23):
so we need to replace middle linebackers the same way.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
You know, it's hard to be proactive when you're in
the quicksand yeah, the Giants have not been even respectable
for most of the last decade. Again, I don't disagree
with a lot of your blueprint.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
It's just very premature.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
It's like on the Shark Tank, right, Yeah, of person
comes into the tank and they got this great invention,
and everybody sits there, and Cuban's sitting there, and then
all the other Shark Tank people are sitting there and
they all say, I'm out.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
I love your I love your product. I'll be a customer.
I think it's great.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
But I think it's too early, too early for me,
it's not investable right now.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
I can't go there, thanks very much. That's where I
think your blueprint is. I think your your blueprint is
way ahead of where the giants are.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Yeah. No, I can understand where you're coming from. Of
let's stabilize the ship for another year or two and
then we can start to in that. That's how I see.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yeah, at the whole point, that's why you that's why
you spent big money on the two guys in the secondary,
spent medium money on the defensive lineman. Who by the way,
and that's the other thing I'm thinking of.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Get me extra defensive line because I want the ability
to play four man down I'd like to be I'd
like the ability of a multiple front or maybe even
at some point go to a four to three, especially
if Tibleeau winds up being gone in a couple of years.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
The ability to change that me too.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
So I want more guys up front on the defense
because I don't want to be married just to wait
three four if birds or Tipoeo goes down, or for
that matter, if Tipodeou does wind up leaving in a
year or two.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Yep, that's one place where I want to be proactive.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yeah no, And I look, your approach is much more
realistic than mine, right, I will not argue that it
makes a lot more sense to go about it. Your
I mean is just a little different. No, I get it,
but again by default to how I was taught by
Dave T I understand. So George Young, yeah, right, And

(52:37):
it's not to say that one person's perspective is more
right than the other. So let me ask you about
linebacker then, because this is another area that I feel
like doesn't get enough attention. Inside linebacker Bobby ocaracka Micah McFadden.
And then what you know, how do you feel about
that position and of needs because again one of those

(53:02):
guys go down and is Micah McFadden. Are you gonna
sign him after his rookie deal expires? Is he a
long term solution or is he a bridge guy that
we're gonna have to replace at some point down the road.
Is Bobby o'caake really gonna develop in the Bowen defense?
You know? How do you look at inside linebackers.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
I'm just I'm just refreshing my mind here looking at
the linebacker depth chart, because you're right, there's not much
behind those guys. It's Chris Choice, yep, you know, I
know they really like the Ante Johnson uh huh.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
And he got injured, as you remember, right and then
and that that just set him back immensely. But he
had a really good camp prior and and they like
him a lot.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
I'll be frank with you. I've talked about this to
John on Big Blue Kickoff. Uh, that's not a spot
on my list right now dealing with it this year.
It's just not I I you know, and I to
Puss only has eight arms and linebacker is not one
of the arms on this octopus, at least not for

(54:08):
me this year. I'm not dealing with that spot.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
I think it's a pivotal, But that's in theory where
you feel general is you know, so you look at
again Detroit with like a Jack Campbell type, you know,
and you take somebody and then you've got that going forward.
But I get your point of it's too premature. We've
got other needs and let's shure up other positions and
then we can look at line We have the same premise,

(54:35):
we just have different views of the positions that we
need to focus on. Well, it's about timing.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yeah, It's about the stage of where the team is
at and the timing of how to fill the things
that you want to do to get where you want
to go. Ultimately, we're both trying to get through the
woods to Grandma's house. Okay, yep. I just think that
the rock path that.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
That I see them on is going a little bit
uh squiggly, and it's going a little bit round about,
and you're trying to get there.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
In a straight line. Yep. So I don't think.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Fundamentally we're really different islands here.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
No, No, we're not at all. So then let me
ask you this Paul wide receiver right a position they've
been heavily investing in in recent years, and we got
to see how you know Jalen Hyatt to break out?
But assume that he doesn't, or do you hedge that?
Do you think that they should or could draft a

(55:38):
wide receiver this year?

Speaker 2 (55:40):
I would like to see another receiver added to the room,
specifically a burner.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
But here's the thing. I was taught this many years ago,
and it still holds true. Okay, you can pick up
a productive, undrafted, rookie free agent wide receiver. I'll out
cruise and if you want to go back a long ways,
go back to Bobby Johnson. You can't get those guys
more often than practically any other position on the roster YEP.

(56:11):
So honestly, I would like to see them add a
speedy wide receiver to the room. I would maybe Bryce
Ford Wheaton, after coming off a full year of the
rehab off the ACL can be that guy. I would
love for him to be that guy too. I don't

(56:34):
know where he is now after he played a year
proved he could be good on special teams coverage, but
never really got much of a chance at receiver last season,
and I understood it because it was only the first
year back from the ACLP.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
I would like to see another speedy wide receiver in
that room at some point. Whether it's a drafted whether
it's an undrafted guy, whether it's even a veteran that
they pick up, you know, late in the summer, I
don't care. I'd like to see another speedy guy as
competition for that room because I need insurance in case

(57:16):
Jalen Hyatt, who is supposed to be a threat because
of his tremendous speed and ability to get downfield, if
he doesn't break out this year in year three and
have a season that makes him a productive threat, they
need somebody else on that wide receiving corps to be

(57:37):
able to make those kinds of plays.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
So if Hyatt's not gonna do it, I'd like to
see an insurance policy.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Yeah, that's I kind of look at wide receiver how
you kind of look at inside linebacker. I don't think
it's the year to allocate substantial draft capital given the
room that they have already, but at an undrafted free
agent or somebody who gets cut off a ninety man roster. Sure,
by all means, certainly wouldn't hurt, don't get me wrong,
but I don't see really the value of drafting somebody.

(58:07):
And I agree with you that they like the speedy burners.
As much as I would love to see a big body,
physical jump ball specialists, they just won't go after those guys,
at least from what I've seen in recent That's why
they signed Humphrey, right yeah, yep. And Bruse or Wheton
is not small.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
No, he's the six three six four, And Humphrey was
brought over from his time he was in Denver, and
certainly Russell Wilson knows him, yep, so that that could
be some of the moon ball stuff there.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Now he's not a speedster, but he's a big guy, yep.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
So, but yeah, I'm not putting a.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
High priority on it, but that is one of my
secondary to do lists.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
All right, So I feel like we've got two more
positions and then we'll wrap this up running back in
tight end? Okay, so tight end, we got Theo Johnson
come back off an injury. You got Chris Manhertz, you
got Daniel Bellinger, Greg Dolcic on the roster. There. I
like some of these early round I mean, I'm a

(59:10):
huge Tyler Warren guy. I like Mason Taylor and Elijah Royo.
If you're talking more of a day two investment, I'm
concerned about the impact THEO Johnson has, any expectations around
him meeting what everybody expects that he his ceiling could be.

(59:33):
So does it make sense to bring in a substantial
playmaker at tight end because it also diversifies your passing offense? Right,
It gives you an opportunity to spread out of defense,
give your quarterback a safety net. But nobody's really talking
about tight ends like more of a prominent need on
this team. How do you look at that position?

Speaker 2 (59:55):
I look at it like I look at linebacker.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
I'm not Yep, that makes perfect sense.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
I agree with your logic. Okay, to get production out
of that position would be wonderful to add to this offense,
which desperately needs some more adrenaline. I'm not going to
disagree with that. I'd be crazy too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
I don't think that's where I'm addressing any of my
resources this season. I happen to be very high on
THEO Johnson. I loved what he did in training camp
last year, and I was warned, I will. I will
gonna let you in a little secret. I can tell
you this. This is not that, this is not behind
the wall information, but I was warned when this when
the training.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Camp was over, don't get too carried away. He is
still somewhat raw. I know everybody's getting very excited and
his ups are huge. They think he can be really good,
and I still think so, but I was told he's
still a rookie. Don't push it about him more next year.

(01:01:02):
This year, we're going to try to bring him along slowly.
And yes, you have every reason to be excited, but
don't push it. He's still raw.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Well then, and then he's coming off an injury though,
and the media and the fans have this expectation of
the hype around him, and it's very difficult for a
young kid. I mean, people forget these kids at early
twenty years old, the mental playing in this market and
having those sorts of lofty expectations around you, it's hard
to live up to that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
Understand that. That's why claiming Greg Dolcich was such a
good move off of waivers from Denver. When he came
out of school, he was supposed to be one of
those very dynamic receiving tight ends.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yeah right out.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Nobody, nobody ever disagreed with that evaluation of him.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
It's just that it seemed like he was hurt every
week in Denver.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Now he had one productive season when some guy named
Russell Wilson was his quarterback. Somehow they have both found
themselves to play playing in the same stadium again this year.
I'm telling people, don't sleep on him now. You think
he got here at the end of last year and

(01:02:14):
was only with them for about a month or so.
I can't remember exactly how many games he played, and
they basically were letting him test the water, put your
foot in the water. They didn't make him a big
part of the game plan, and they were just like,
let's see what you got. Let's see how you move,
Let's see how you remember the plays. Let's see if
you could actually get out on the field and run
and stay healthy. So they didn't really give him much

(01:02:37):
of the game.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Plan or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
It was just like, all right, let's kind of it
was almost like a workout, is what it kind of was.
And he didn't get hurt, he didn't cause trouble. He
was a good guy. They saw you had physical tools,
all the physical tools he had when he was coming
out with the Bruins. I'm telling people, do not sleep
on him. He could be a dark horse in this

(01:03:01):
tight ends race. And we also know that Manhurtz was
also the primary recruiter to get Russell Wilson here because
he was also in Denver at one time and he
was very friendly with Wilson. And when Wilson was a free.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Agent, he was the guy who the Giant stable talked
to him and had him tell Wilson, here's the lowdown
on the Giants.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
So I don't know if they're going to keep for
tight ends.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
I think where does that leave Bellinger?

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Well, I still I know they still like Bellinger, but
he is a two and if Dulcich becomes part of
this passing game all of a sudden, Bellinger may wind
up being the three. I mean, he may be a
situational guy, depending upon the matchup and who they're playing.

(01:03:52):
Do you want to run double tight ends? Do you
want to run h back? Do you want to run
you know more?

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Four?

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
While? What do you want to do? Well you wind
up being the tight end? Usage may be game specific.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
Yeah, So to me, whether or not you have four,
I'll tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
You know what's gonna matter. I'll tell you what's gonna matter.
What's gonna happen with special teams? Okay, can they afford
to burn a fourth spot on a tight end? Will
the offensive line be healthy and good enough that they
don't have to keep an extra offensive lineman? Will the

(01:04:33):
secondary be healthy and deep enough where they don't have
to keep an extra defensive back.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
I can't imagine we go into the season with four
tight ends?

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
Will Will your wide receiving corps be healthy and productive enough?

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Smith Marsett, I love on the return game.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Yep. Can he be part of the receiving corps? I
don't know.

Speaker 6 (01:04:57):
Yeah, I don't know, right, So, I don't think they're
gonna keep four tight ends. I don't think so, yep,
But but they've got four right now, and I could
make a case for each one of those guys sticking
on the roster.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
So now you understand why I'm not looking at the draft,
the fact that it's loaded at tight end. I can't
go there. I got I got too many other holes
to fill, and I already got four guys.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
No, it makes sense, And you bring me back down
to earth, Paul, because yeah, I'm like, screw it. Take
Tyler Warren and let's absolutely change this thing up. And
then you've got THEO and Tyler, both Penn State guys reuniting.
You know. I mean, but I love to live in
a fantasy La La land. So you bring me back

(01:05:46):
down to earth. I appreciate it. The last physician we
haven't talked about, because I feel like we've pretty much
talked about every other one at this point is running back. Yeah,
Tracy looked good last year. A couple of nagging injuries there.
All security it is a big issue. He better he
better not make a habit of that. And Tiki Barbera

(01:06:08):
all over again there. Devin Singletary didn't see much at
a motor last year. Eric Gray is kind of not
really lived up to the billing of what people expected
him to be. Roll Miller never really saw the field.
So in a super deep running back class, do you
see more of a value of investing draft capital at

(01:06:30):
the running back position by comparison to tight end.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
If you know anything about me, you know that there's
a few things that I kind of have on my
blueprint of a roster. One of them is I always
like to have a big, wide receiver. So that's why
when you said that earlier, I'm very happy to hear
about Bryce ford Wheaton because I'd love for him to
be a factor in the receiving game. But he also
happens to have the speed that I know Brian Dabele

(01:06:56):
wants from receiving corps.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
That's why my.

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
Answer before was more along the lines of what the
Giants need for their system. I would always prefer skyscraping
receiver in the room. It just so happens that Ford
Wheaton could serve both speed and height, which is awesome.
Ye same applies to the running back room. I believe
that my running back room, if it were my team,

(01:07:21):
would always have a big, nasty, physical bull in that room.
Somebody who is a very strong downhill runner who is
going to turn a one yard play into a three
yard play.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Okay, he needs to be able to consistently push the pile,
and he consistently has to be able to force his
way into breaking a tackle or two just by sheer.
Sheer might not because.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
He's juking somebody, but because he's got to be able
to fight through it. Now, Singletary is a very good, durable,
reliable running back.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
He is not one of those power backs. He's just not.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Brandon Jacobs is one of those guys. Okay, yeah, excuse me.
Devin Singletary is not.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
I like him.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
I think he's very steady, consistent, He's a pros pro.
He's a great, great influence on Tracy. I've got no
problem with him being on this roster. Heck, he's been
a starter in this league for watch six years, and
in five of those years he was on playoff teams.
So if you can win having Singletary as part of

(01:08:41):
your backfield. But here is where I would go. I
want a nasty, physical downhill guy who is gonna be
a short yarded specialist, a goal line specialist. AND's gonna
help in the four minute drive or the four minute
drill when I'm just trying to bludgeon people at the

(01:09:03):
end of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
So I want one of those guys.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
I want Scattaboo, I want Oli Gordon Okay, and I'm
gonna tell you something else. I like Mullings for Michigan too.
He's another one of those guys for me. Now, I
happen to think that Tracy is the full package. I
think that Singletary is your reliable workman, horse guy who

(01:09:34):
is steady in past pro and you can count on.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
So I'm good with those two. I happen to like
Dante Miller as the speed guy. I think there's a
lot there to unlock. He as a rookie had great
straight ahead speed, but where he was still raw was
vision patience, and I'd like to believe they have to

(01:10:03):
basically red shirting as a rookie. I'd like to believe
that Dante Miller is gonna have some growth in his
game to where he can become part of that running
back core and stick on the roster this year.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
I really hope.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
So I'm rooting for him because I'd like to have
that element in the running backs room. He has incredible
and it's true when they call him Turbo, they're not joking, Dave,
They're not joking. He absolutely has like roadrunner wildy coyote
and Roadrunner.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Beeps like a puff of smoke. He's unbelievable with his
straight ahead speed. So I hope he sticks.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Eric Gray is the enigma to me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
I wanted the Giants to take him in the fifth
round a couple of years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
I was all in on him, and it hasn't worked out.
So what I would do is hopefully take one of
those big backs, and I would have Eric Gray fight
it out with one of those big backs and hopefully,
you know, I don't want to pooh pooh Eric Gray,

(01:11:13):
but maybe the competition kicks him into gear. And if
Eric Gray, you know, winds up having a breakout camp
and he sticks as the fourth.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Running back in the room, or the third running back
in the room. Great between Gray Miller and hopefully a
Burley well, I don't want to say Burley, but hopefully
a downhill power back.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
Between Gray Miller and a power back. I'd like to
think two of those guys stick. That's what I would do. Now,
I will tell you, my broadcast compatriots with the team disagree.
They'd rather have a third down back with speed and
who can catch the ball out of the backfield. Now

(01:11:58):
I think Tracy he can do that. I think with
Miller's speed, I'd like to see if he can progress
and maybe have.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
A chance to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
I just I don't see a bulldozer in this room,
so that's why that's what I would do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
My I agree with you. I would love to add
a big body back, but similar to the style of
wide receiver that they've drafted in recent memory, they care
way more about speed than physicality. They don't and that's
where as much as I want the bulldozer that you're

(01:12:38):
alluding to. And I like all the names that you
threw out, and two more I would throw in there,
Damien Martinez from Miami and Raheem Sanders from South Carolina.
I don't know that those individuals will end up getting
enough reps in this offense just from a scheme fit perspective,

(01:13:00):
and that's where I think that they want to win
more with speed. I would love to have another Brandon
Jacob's type. I'm looking at big body running backs every
single year and wishing then they would do it, and yeah,
in a couple of short yardage scenarios, I could see it.
But to me, it's more of a spread offense, and
they want to win with the speed and the elusiveness

(01:13:20):
and all that. So I just as much as we
want it, like we want a big body wide receiver,
I just don't think they're going to go there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Dave.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
Last year, I was all in on Roma Dunesday, and
I predicted the Giants would take Neighbors because he fits
Stables system better.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
YEP.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
If I were building the team, I would have wanted
a Doonesday. That wasn't to say that Neighbors was not
a blue chip prospect. I ever disputed that. I thought
they were. Like it was like an.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
Apple and an orange. Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
Okay, I would want an apple for my blueprint, but
I knew that Neighbors was more of an orange and
he would fit Dabel system better.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
So I remember telling John Schmilk at the combine last year, I.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
Said, I'm all in on Roman Doonsday, but John said, well,
I would pick Neighbors, and I said, I know Dabel
would pick Neighbors. So I get it, and I don't
think they're going to go for a big, powerful, downhill back.
I don't think they're gonna do it right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
I certainly would, and I'll tell you why, because there
were too many times that this team does not convert
short yardage situations that would keep drives alive and keep
that defense off the field and give them a better
chance to compete. And they are also too many times
down in the red zone that this team settles for threes.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
So at what point, then, is running back a priority
or does it fall into the con text of tight
end and inside linebacker for you where you like the
guys enough on the roster and they're not gonna go
after a big body guy. So you roll the dice
with what you got already and then we'll kick the
can down the road. Even though it's a stellar running

(01:15:13):
back class.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
I don't think that you're gonna see a lot of
teams breaking down the door to get Mullings from Michigan.
He only played as a regular for one year. This
past year he ran for nearly a thousand yards. But
before that, what do you have fifty five career rushes?

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Right? It was Donovan Edwards and them right.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
So I mentioned him because everybody knows who do Gordon is,
everybody knows.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
Who Scottipoo is.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
You're not gonna sneak those guys into the fifth round,
yep or the sixth round. Let say I think.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
I think with all of the talented backs who have
played many more snaps, put up many more numbers, had
many more excite wedding runs, and have speed and versatility,
those guys are all gonna come off the board way
before Mullings is coming off the board. You know he's

(01:16:11):
not gonna be a guy who's gonna be highly sought after.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
So I think you can get if you want the
power back.

Speaker 3 (01:16:20):
I think he's perfect to get fifth round, maybe sixth round,
and he is going to excel in those situations that
I just talked about.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
And I'm sorry. I understand what the Giants playbook says.
The playbook says they're gonna want more speed, They're gonna
want more versatility. I understand that playbook, But I also
know what I've seen from this team for several years,
and I've seen too many situations where they didn't get
the short yardage first down, and I've seen too many

(01:16:55):
times in the red zone where they have to go
with a spread formation and an empty backfield, and they
couldn't get the ball into the end zone because either
the offensive line couldn't block it or they didn't have
a strong enough running back who could put somebody in
the face and force it past the goal line. Yep,
So you can't tell me that I don't see a

(01:17:17):
role for that guy.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
I agree with you wholeheartedly, And there is a ton
of value later on in day three to be able
to pull the trigger on a Mullings or an Ali Gordon,
particularly when there's so much depth at this position where
teams are going to prioritize the earlier names like the
guys out of Ohio State and the Omari and Hamptons.

(01:17:41):
You know, there isn't going to be as many suitors
by the tail end of day three now because people
will have already addressed But then absolutely you might see
somebody as an undrafted free agent that you thought was
going to get drafted just because people don't prioritize running
act because they addressed it earlier on, and then you

(01:18:02):
could get some solid value there as well. So yeah,
I agree, I would love to see a power back
coming in. Yeah, No, I doubt they will. I doubt
they will, Paul for sure, but look, that's a that's
a good place to put a riven on things we've
been going for for quite a while. I want to
thank you again for taking the time to travel with us.

(01:18:25):
Happy to have you back on the show anytime in
the future. For sure, we're gonna be following you and
all your shows the rest of this month and after
the draft for sure. To all our listeners out there,
thanks for tuning in. We'll catch you guys on the
next Scouts on our podcast.