April 1, 2025 • 46 mins
Dave Del Col returns to talk about first round prospects for the Giants if they trade down. Highlighting some new guests and outlining expectations for the show this year. We're ready to crank this thing back up heavy throughout the month of April. Stay tuned for more to come.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, everybody. Welcome back to the Scouts on Or podcast.
I'm your host, Dave dell Cole. We are back once again.
It is Draft month, officially April. Recording this on April first,
I wanted to give all of our listeners sort of
a preview, let you all know that we're coming back
(00:21):
in full force this month. We're going to have some
new guests, a lot of the guests that you all
have come to know if you've been listening to this
show since I took it over the last few years.
Excited to be chatting Draft with all of you in attendance,
chatting mostly about you know, later round prospects. Day three guys.
(00:47):
If you're new here, I will preface by saying that
I love chatting about later round prospects. I mean, if
you want to hear about Round one, folks, and if
the Giants are going to be taking Shador Sanders or
Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter, then you probably don't want
to listen to this show because I just can't take
(01:10):
another one of those conversations, even if you paid me.
So we try to differentiate ourselves here on the Scouts
on our podcast. As an homage to the late Dave T. Thomas,
who is the reason that we continue to do this
show was originally his show. If you're just tuning in,
I would encourage you to go back in the archives
of this program and listen to some of the old
(01:33):
shows with Dave T my mentor fantastic human being who
taught me everything that I know about scouting.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's tough this time of year for me and.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I'm sure for a lot of our listeners who have
been around since Dave T started this podcast with Paul
Crane back and I believe it was twenty eighteen. I
mischopping it up with Dave tea leading up to the
draft every single year, but him leaving me this podcast
(02:07):
to continue on in his legacy a beautiful way for
me to get to know more people in the scouting community.
Still have conversations with different folks, just obviously no longer
Dave Toy, so his memory lives on. We'll try to
(02:27):
incorporate some more stories around him and the impact that
he had on us, the scouting community and all that
good stuff. Also want to shout out Paul Crane. While
we're on the topic of the former history of this show,
(02:47):
Paul has been a fantastic mentor to me in reviving
this podcast over the last few years and me learning
how to become a podcast host. I mean, I never
anticipated that I would become a podcast host. I don't
really still necessarily qualify myself as a podcast host, but
(03:08):
more of a casual fan who likes to talk draft
and was given this platform to be able to do so.
But Paul has certainly helped me when it's come to
the formalities of scheduling guests and writing scripts. It's a
lot of work this podcast game, I'll tell you that much.
(03:28):
And this is a side hobby for me, not my
full time job obviously, so I do with it what
I can. But generally I like to come on here
and kickstart this show again once free agency has sort
of played out enough that we have a general sense
(03:49):
of what we're looking at for the draft this year.
I don't really find a need to kickstart this show
up and speculate about what are the Giants going to
do at quarter back. There are bazillion shows that you
can listen to if you want to hear all that
kind of stuff. But what I am to do here
is let you all know about some of the later
(04:11):
round prospects in the draft that you might not otherwise
hear about, but you will certainly hear their names.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Called on Day three.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
It's an interesting time, to say the least. Since we've
last caught up. You know, Jim Naggy has since left
the Senior Bowl. Very sad to see him go, Excited
for him to you know, do great things. Is the
GM of the Oklahoma Sooners football program. Wish him all
(04:43):
the best big shoes for whoever takes on his role
down there remobile. Jim was a guest of the show
last few years, so definitely appreciate him taking the time
for us, and excited to see everything thing that he's
going to do in.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
His next endeavor.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Subsequently, yesterday, Peter Schrager leaves Good Morning Football. One of
our other guests historically on the show, Mat Hamilton was
an original producer on the first iteration of Good Morning
Football when it was still originally intact, and you know,
sad to see that program sort of dwindling away in
(05:24):
terms of like the original folks who were involved with it,
but you know, excited to see how Peter's scope changes.
As it was announced today that he's going to ESPN.
I really look forward to seeing him duking it out
with mel Kiper at some point down the road. And
(05:47):
then the big news today in Giants podcast World talking
Giants losing Bobby Skinner. Obviously a lot of back and
forth on the Twitter x machine regarding that, and Bobby
dropped the show earlier today kind of explaining his side
of things. Definitely want to support Bobby anyway that we can.
(06:11):
He's a great dude, obviously loved by all his listeners
and Giants fans. So he's trying to start his own business,
which is no small feat at all. He's looking for
folks to subscribe to his Patreon channel. I believe it's
under Giants Nation show. So if you're so inclined to
(06:35):
help another Giants fan out, please go look up Bobby
Skinner and who's new endeavor and support him in any
way that you can. But after all that, let's get
into some of the draft stuff for this year. We'll
start with the quarterback talk. I hope we don't get
(06:56):
into too much of this in our upcoming shows, but
I will kind of set the stages I like to
do in this initial show of just where my head's
kind of at my expectations of things and what I
would do if I had any sort of say in
the matter with the Giants. So I have no desire
to draft a quarterback this year, Not in the first round,
(07:19):
the second round, the third round, day three, undrafted free agent.
Don't see the value in it, don't understand the rationale
behind it. You bring in Wilson and Winston, and I
know Tommy DeVito's still on the roster, but I just
(07:41):
really don't see when you had the opportunity to take
a quarterback in a quote unquote better class last year
and passed it up to take Malik Neighbors. You didn't
take main man Joe Milton in the sixth instead we
(08:02):
went with Darius Muissow. I just can't fathom a world
in which it makes sense for the Giants, particularly after
signing two veteran free agents, to go quarterback in this one.
If somehow the likes of a Jalen Milrow fall in
(08:23):
our lap at the top of the third, is there
a little bit more of a justification where the value
is substantial enough that you could make that sort of investment. Sure,
do I think that's gonna happen. No, everybody who's saying
Jackson Dart's gonna go in the first round, now, Jalen
(08:44):
Milroe going to go on the probably back half of
the first somewhere in the second. So I don't really
see any rationale behind taking a quarterback in the second round,
third round, anything of the sort. You know, for me,
the quarterback position, you got to really be infatuated with
(09:07):
a prospect, and I haven't felt that way in quite
some time, outside of Joe Milton to one extent or
another last year, but more or less developmental prospect by
comparison to the likes of Josh Allen when he came
out and I was absolutely in love with him. I
(09:30):
am a big, height, weight guy when it comes to
being a quarterback in the NFL. I'm frankly pretty particular
about measurables when it comes to any position that we're
talking about here, but quarterback especially. And you know, everybody
was in love with Jaden Daniels last year. I had
(09:51):
my reservations around Jaden Daniels' long term health, which would
have prohibited me from wanting to right up to take
him by any stretch.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Last year, I was pretty.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Vocal that I was not a fan of Caleb Williams
or Drake may wish all those guys at best.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
We'll see how it all plays out.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But long window way of saying that I have zero
interest in addressing the quarterback position. We saw plenty of
holes to fill on this roster, and I think that
it makes a ton of sense to try to fill
some of those with some quality players, particularly in the
early and mid rounds. If I had my druthers about it,
(10:34):
I would love to trade down. I am of the
old school, the Bill Belichick mode of if somebody gives
me a pretty good haul to move back, I'd rather
more swings of the bat than, you know, taking somebody
just for the sake of taking him. I think in
(10:56):
the first round, day one, day two of this particular
draft year, plenty of quality talent that we could add
into the roster. If you know, we're given the opportunity
to trade down, and even if it's still within the
top ten, or within the top fifteen, or even the twenties,
(11:21):
you give me a good enough haul, I would be
more than happy to take that. Whether those picks were
additional in this year or next year, I'm fine in
investing in the future.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You know, whether.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
The regime will still be intact next year is a
highly debated topic, and you know, will they be willing
to forego taking an impact player now for the sake
of developing a roster down the road when there's uncertainty
around them being here long term, You know, probably not.
(11:58):
I assume that they're going to stay, and I want
to take the high profile, blue chip prospects.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
That will be available to them.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
But you know, every show that you're probably listening to,
you're hearing the debate on Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter.
I've got concerns about both of those prospects. Abdul Carter's
foot injury, Travis Hunter's frame in general. I know one
(12:29):
of our guests, ci and I agree that Hunter is
probably better suited for a long term career in the
NFL as a wide receiver by comparison to a cornerback.
I don't think that he has the build to be
able to handle tackling as much as we would need
(12:54):
him to. And I'm also not a huge fan of
the prospect of him playing on both sides of the ball,
even if one of those is in a limited fashion.
You're just wearing the tread down on the tires. It's
not to say that he's not an incredible athlete that
I expect him to make an immediate impact on whenever
team drafts him, and if it ends up being the Giants,
(13:15):
I will certainly.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Root for him.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But overall, you know, it just doesn't make sense to
me to bring somebody like that in. I could see
the value he would add as a cornerback, but there
are a lot of other players in the first round
that I don't think are discussed as much, and if
we were to able to make a slight trade back
(13:41):
could certainly make a ton of sense. And top of
that list for me is actually Tyler Warren. You're probably thinking, Dave,
you're absolutely nuts. Again, I will preface by saying, I
know that I'm a lunatic and I like to come
up with unorthodox and out of the box ideas around
(14:02):
different players at different positions that other folks are not
talking about. So why the hell does it make sense
to potentially consider taking Tyler Warren. I would consider him
even at three, which I know will never happen. But
I think he's a really special talent that doesn't come
along every day immediate impact player at a position that man,
(14:24):
we haven't had an impact player.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
In I can't tell you how long.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I don't really qualify Evan Ingram as an impact player
at that position. He was serviceable, but he was basically
just a big body, wide receiver attempting to play the
tight end position. So Tyler Warren sort of top of
my list in terms of alternative ideas for the Giants.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
In round one.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And I think the other thing that I really like
about Tyler Warren is that he gives some support to
THEO Johnson. Obviously both Penn State guys. There is huge
expectations on THEO Johnson in year two, coming off of
a pretty significant surgery that is difficult to recover from,
(15:07):
and you're just really putting THEO in a really bad
spot if we don't address the tight end position. Tight
End is actually one of my highest needs in this draft,
and there's some really strong prospects on Day one and
Day two. I get that we're probably not going to
(15:28):
take Tyler Warren, but Elijah Arroyo out of Miami, Mason
Taylor out of LSU are a couple guys that could
really upgrade that position. Give our quarterbacks a safety net
over the middle again, take some of the pressure off
of THEO Johnson and turn tight end in from a
(15:50):
potential position of concern that if THEO doesn't work out,
we're going to have to address next year into something
that we can actually roll with going forward for the
next couple of years and see how it kind of
plays out. You also give THEO more time to recover
from that injury rather than thrusting him into the deep
(16:11):
end of the pool and just hoping that he doesn't
reaggravate that injury or have another one. So Tyler Warren
definitely a guy that I think should be in the
mix on day one at three lower, depending on how
far we trade back. But I think he's a really
special talent. I haven't seen a tight end. I'm normally
(16:36):
not an advocate of a tight end in the top ten.
Last time I was was TJ. Hockinson back when he
came out of Iowa. Was not in love with the
Kyle Pitts of the world and some of these other
folks who have come out. But brock Bowers, Like brock
Bowers last year, the injury history of brock Bowers really
(16:57):
turned me off, but you could see even for a
low league team like the Raiders, Rock made an I
media impact. I think Tyler Warren could certainly surpass him
in terms of the impact that he makes straight away
in his rookie year. So I think he's gonna be
a solid guy for somebody. Jihad Campbell is another one.
(17:19):
Linebacker is another position of need. As far as I'm concerned,
Bobby ocarake up and down in a different defense. We
have to see how all that shakes out for him.
Obviously modestly priced free agent that we sign a couple
of years back, but is he going to stay with
(17:41):
us long term into another contract? What's going on with
Michael mcfaddener. We thrilled with Michael McFadden as our second
interior linebacker. You know, he's good, but I feel like
there are plenty of folks on this roster that would
be good depth pieces and if an injury happened, can
step in play the position, handle the role, et cetera,
(18:04):
et cetera. But you know, I just really don't see
that position between Bobby and Micah being something that I'm
super confident in heading into you know, this next season
where we have a daunting schedule, and you know, investing
in a young field general, an impact player like a
(18:28):
Jihad Campbell. I mean, you throw on his tape and
he is vicious. I love what I see out of him.
He can do at all. He can drop into coverage,
you can play the run, he can rush the passer,
big body guy. A lot of the linebackers this year.
You know, it's not an incredible class for linebackers. There
(18:49):
are certainly some quality linebackers that you can get on
Day three. I'm sure we'll cover some of those names
with some of our guests going forward. But you know,
the kid out of UCLA in the second round, I
don't really think that he's worth the hype there. But
(19:13):
Gid Campbell is definitely a guy that could make a
huge impact early on. I know he had the shoulder surgery.
I'm not like super concerned about that, but obviously the
medicals will need to check out. But he's a guy
that I absolutely love. Just took him in the BBI
mock Draft. Quick plug for Big Blue Interactive dot Com,
(19:36):
Matt g running that mock draft every year, switched to
the Tampa Bay Bucks as their GM and was a
static to get Gihid Campbell picked nineteen for the Bucks
the other day, and I could certainly see him sliding.
You know, He's at a position that has in recent
(19:56):
memory been cascading down draft boards for one reason or another.
And you know, is he somebody that's going to be
available for us at the top of day two. No,
but if we were able to trade back into that,
you know, I would call it twelve to twenty range.
I would love to add g Hi Campbell into the
(20:20):
mix of our linebacker room going forward. And again, linebacker
is a position that I don't think is nearly as
deep this year in this class in terms of day
one impact starters. There are plenty of folks you can
get on Day three that could certainly develop into a starter,
but I think it's going to be sort of like
(20:41):
that Micah McFadden type of a player that can do
certain things well and struggle at other things.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So I think Jihat is.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Sort of alone at the top, you know, and Jalen
Walker is more of an outside linebacker as far as
I'm concerned. I'm talking specifically about inside lineback, but a
couple other names that I like at the top, and
I know that I mentioned at the beginning of this
show that I wouldn't be getting too much into the
(21:10):
first round folks, But again, just talking a little bit
more out of the box with some of these ideas,
giving you some different names. You know, Will Campbell is
a guy that I think should be in consideration at
number three. Oh he's got the t Rex arms. I
come on, man, The measurements have been an issue this year.
(21:34):
Is funny to kind of see the discrepancies between the
combine and the pro days, and you know, somebody must
need some glasses somewhere, or you know, get a new
measuring tape, whatever the case might be. But I think
Will Campbell checked out with the arms at his pro day.
So whether that was done to help his drafts suck
(21:56):
by his school, what have you, that's an entirely different debate.
But Will Campbell, he can't ask for more out of
a kid like this, starting at left tackle his entire career,
Can he play tackle? Does he need to move into guard?
I think he can play tackle. The thing I also
like about Will Campbell is the fact that the position versatility.
(22:19):
Although he's played predominantly a left tackle, if we bring
him on and then he starts at right tackle, and
then you got illumin Or as a swing tackle, which
is where I think Illuminor's sweet spot is again a
serviceable player, but would be much better as like that
sixth man off the bench if you will reserve guy
(22:42):
that comes in when there is an inevitable injury, which
news flash, on our offensive line, there are injuries every
single year. So if you start Will Campbell on the
right side of the line and then god forbid, Andrew
Thomas gets hurt again this year, then wow, instead of
being completely screwed and having no solution for that debacle again,
(23:06):
well Will Campbell can just slide right over there and
man the left side of your offensive line better than
anybody else you're gonna have on the roster. Again, not
an incredible year for offensive tackles. I think interior offensive linemen,
there are a lot of strong folks, but offensive tackle
is definitely a.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Huge need in my eyes.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I don't know that it's going to be a priority
for this organization on day one or day two, but
there's some quality talent in the first, second, borderline, third
round that we should definitely be considering pretty heavily. But
I think Will Campbell is not getting enough love and
attention from Giants fans as a real deal possibility. Last
(23:48):
year on this show, I talked at nauseum about Joe Alt.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
If the Giants were going to trade up.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
At all, I would want to take Joe Alt, not
one of the quarterbacks. Obviously, Joe Alt ended up going
picked before us to the Chargers. I'm not saying that
Will Campbell is the same caliber as Joe Alt, but
he's pretty damn close. You know, Joe Alt obviously from
a measurable's perspective, superior to Will Campbell. But you know,
(24:18):
it's hard to argue that Will Campbell is going to
be a solid NFL player for the next decade. I
like his demeanor, he loves football, he loves being an
offensive lineman, and I think that that would certainly help
shake up that room where you have the likes of
(24:39):
and Evan Neil. Where is he gonna play guard? Obviously
the experiment of tackle isn't going anywhere. We're gonna pick
up his fifth year option and continue to, you know,
try to invest in him and make it work so
it's not a total embarrassment between him and Cavon. I
don't know seems something like that ship has kind of sailed,
and I think mostly because Evan Neil doesn't love to
(25:03):
play football, and I don't have that concern with Will Campbell.
There are plenty of guys who, you know, you start
playing football young, you go through college and everything like that,
and the next thing you know, it takes a toll
on you. You know, whether it's physically, mentally, emotionally spiritually. I
started playing football in high school and then that's when
(25:25):
I met Dave t and started to get into the
scouting stuff a bit. But it's hard to start playing football.
I started playing when I was nine. You know, if
you pick it up later on in high school and
then you know, your best years are in college and
then you go into the pros.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Great, but a lot of these guys.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
They started when they were young in Pop Warner like
the rest of us, and it's a difficult proposition to remain,
you know, rejuvenated year after year after year if you
don't really love it, care about it, and have the
cajones to want to play it, you know. So Will
Campbell's another one. Juday Baron in the cornerback out of Texas.
(26:10):
I do think there is a lot of validity to
the fact of, again, where's the depth at the position.
We signed Paulson debo, Great, he's coming off a broken leg.
Hopefully you know he's young, it works out for us,
and then you've got Deontay Banks. Okay, great, but what's
(26:31):
really going on there? And if he doesn't work out,
I mean, I get that. A lot of these positions
I'm addressing are with folks that have been drafted in
the last few years. But if you missed on a prospect,
you missed on a prospect, you got to own it.
You've still got to try to rectify it, which is
again where trading down and amassing more picks to mitigate
(26:54):
the risk of you know, shooting yourself in the foot.
Putting all of your eggs in one or two basket.
It makes a ton of sense. But you know, cornerback,
we got Drew Phillips. I think Cordell Flott was a
reach in the third round. I saw him as like
a sixth or seventh round pick when he came out
(27:14):
of LSU.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
A few years back.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
So you know, again, cornerback is a position where we
are one catastrophic injury away from it being a desperate need,
and cornerback, similar to linebacker and offensive tackle, is a
(27:38):
position where I think you can get a lot of
quality folks on Day one and Day two, and then
it starts to drop off a little bit. It'll be
interesting to see if there's a run on cornerbacks. I
think if that's going to transpire, it'll probably happen in
the second round. So you're gonna have to allocate, you know,
your second top of the second round draft pick, which
you might say, oh, that's insane. Well, last year on
(28:00):
this show, I asked pretty much all of our guests
if there was one position that the Giants could afford
to ignore going into this draft, what would it be?
Unanimously if you all recalled safety.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Was the one position that everyone was.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Like, screw it, we don't need a safety. We'll get
by without it, even though we just lost Avier McKinney.
And then what happens. We take Tyler Nuban at the
top of the second round last year. So it's not
to say that it's impossible. If they really like somebody
at the top of the second it makes a ton
of sense. There's a run on the defensive lineman in
(28:35):
the bottom of the first half of the first round,
you know, I think that or the second half of
the first round rather then I could see us potentially
looking at a corner early in Day two, or trading
back again. You know, you don't have to just trade
back in the first round. You could trade back in
(28:56):
any round.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
So Jday is.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
A guy though that I really like, kind of put
him in like that Quinnon Mitchell territory as somebody who
I would think would go in the top ten, but
just based off positional value and team needs and all that,
I could see him dropping down into the late teens.
So it would be a prime suspect for us in
(29:21):
trade back scenario to potentially go after help stabilize that room,
fill that void. Kenneth Grant has been skyrocketing up draft boards.
I mean it's been pretty wild to see, you know,
Mason Graham, this Mason Graham that Kenneth Grant has gone
(29:42):
from I would say at the start of the process
a mid round day like second round guy to mid
round first round guy. I've seen him in Mox as
high as you know, the early teams, which is justifiable.
(30:03):
I mean, he's got an incredible first step for a
guy his size, and you could say, oh, well, we
don't need a player like that because we've got Dexter. Again,
where's the depth, we don't have it. He would be
a welcome edition. Let bowe and figure out how to
use him, all that kind of stuff. So Kenneth Grant
(30:23):
is a guy if we trade back into the mid teens,
that I would definitely like to consider. And then lastly,
Ted McMillan T mac he's somebody who I mean, when
you were looking at the draft prospects after initially after
the draft last year, McMillan was at the top of
(30:43):
everybody's list. You know, incredible athlete, stands out from the pack,
very unique in what he brings.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
To the table.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And now all of a sudden he's dropping out of
the top ten going in the twenties. I think that
he's somebody that you know is falling because of some
minor injury concerns that if the medicals check out. I
haven't seen a prospect like McMillan and quite some time.
(31:14):
The easy comp on him is obviously Mike Evans. I
can understand that from a size perspective, but it's like
if Mike Evans sort of met Odell Beckham in terms
of the catch radius if you pop on even just
like some of the practice tape of McMillan just screwing
(31:35):
around out there, the catches he's making one handed, threw
his legs, all this craziness that he practices. You know,
we talk about not having a big body receiver on
this roster for quite some time and signing to veteran
quarterbacks that love to just launch it down the field. Great,
(31:58):
we've got a bunch of speedsters, but to have a
safety net like a McMillan would really go a long way.
Is wide receiver, you know, as much of a need
position wise as some of the other ones, probably not.
I could see us skipping wide receiver more than tackle,
(32:21):
you know, corner, linebacker, defensive line, obviously interior offensive line.
So that's probably the biggest moon shot. But I like
him a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
So those are some.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Of the initial names that I think aren't being talked
about enough for the Giants to potentially consider, you know,
in the first round. Granted, majority of them would require
some degree of a trade back. We're able to amass
more draft capital, and everybody's.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Gonna be Dave, You're moro on you got to take
the blue chip prospect to Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter? What
are you thinking?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I'm thinking that this team is nowhere near being able
to really compete for a Super Bowl. So similar to
the likes of a Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas, where
we draft them and their sensational blue chip prospects, that
(33:23):
we waste their careers their early years. Andrew Thomas gets
hurt a bunch, you know, which, those nagging injuries become
a real issue as he continues to go throughout his career. Well,
what are you gonna do with Travis Hunter? What are
you gonna do with Abdul Carter? Abdual Carter's got the
foot injury. So you know, again, I would prefer a
(33:44):
trade down mitigate my risks have more swings of the bat,
particularly on Day two of this year. I think there
is so much depth on Day two in this draft,
Like it just blows my mind how much value there
is on Day two, And we could really benefit from,
(34:06):
you know, getting some of those folks in the door here.
It wouldn't surprise me if they don't do that. I
assume that they won't do that, but you know, It's
definitely something that I would love to see us do
because I think it bodes better for the long term
(34:29):
success of this organization.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
With this regime or without this regime.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I'm fine hanging on to day Ball and Shane for
a couple more years. Like they have built the roster
in a way that I think makes a lot of sense.
That they add some hiccups along the way. Sure, you know, look,
I mean, I am in the recruiting world in my
professional day to day life, and when you're first handed
(34:58):
the keys to the kingdom and it's your first try,
you're bound to make some mistakes. You got to learn
from those lessons. You got to persevere through those scenarios
and still come out on top. So was you know
the Daniel Jones thing at debacle, Saquon Barker thing at debacle.
(35:19):
You'll let McKinny go and you know all these things
for Joe Shane. Sure, Evan Neil cave On Thibodeau. You know,
you missed some draft picks here and there. Fine, but
last year had a pretty decent draft. Not the draft
I would have had, but the way that they have
sort of invested in this organization over the last couple
(35:42):
of years gives me hope, which is more than I
can say about a lot of the former regimes. And
I do appreciate John Marra giving them the capacity to
hang around so that this is a more desirable destination
for people to come to, you know, just going to
get the the old hook off the stage after a
(36:03):
couple of years if things don't turn around.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I mean, look, we've been.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
In literal hell Giants fans for quite some time, and
some level of stability is good for us long term,
particularly with some young folks in the front office and
promise for the future. So I think that that's certainly
exciting for me. Then, you know, I'm looking forward to
(36:32):
continuing this show the next few weeks. We're gonna have
some guests on this week. We're gonna have Rick Sarraatella
from All Access Football, one of the few guys I
can really nerd out with when it comes to day
three prospects. I mean, most people only really know prospects
(36:52):
on day one and maybe day two, probably more so
half a day two, So being able to really dig deep,
I mean I was looking at stuff this past weekend,
really trying to catch up a lot on my my
film work, and I got into the depths of, you know,
(37:17):
day three undrafted free agent types to the point that
I found a prospect out of a school that I've
never heard of, and it really made me think of
days Dave t and uh Kyle Duggart coming out of
Leonora Ryan. I had never heard of Leonore Rhyan a
day in my life prior to him bringing it up
(37:37):
on this show when he was hyping up Kyle Duggar
months before the draft. But there was this kid, Tristan Rankins,
out of a school.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Called marsh Hill. I think it was.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Something completely random, Mars Hill, Mars Hill.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I believe it was never heard of the school.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I mean, it's hard to to stump me when it
comes to schools, but Mars Hill is one that I.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Really had no idea about.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
And Tristian Rankin could go on the seventh round. He's
apparently getting some good hype, you know. So I want
to dig a lot deeper into some of those names
that you're not hearing on every other show, but you'll
want to know about when day three of the draft
comes around, assuming that you care as much as we
(38:34):
do about Day three of the draft and how all
that shakes out. So we're gonna have Rick on. I
kind of want to take the opportunity with Rick to
deep dive into the defensive line depth of this draft.
I'm sure that you've all heard at nauseum man, this
(38:55):
is a really deep draft for defensive lineman. And then
you hear the same names Kenneth Grant and Mason Graham
and Walter Nolan and you know all these guys, which
totally valid that you know they're being talked about a
lot more since their early round prospects. But there are
(39:16):
plenty of guys that I think you should be hearing
about on day three where that depth is that nobody's
talking about. So Rick being a draft junkie like me
and knowing you know, the deep, deep rounds, we'll see
(39:36):
if I could try to stump him.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I highly doubt that I will.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Then we're gonna have Eric Kennedy, the big Man from
BDI Big Blue Interactive on like we have the last
couple of years.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
We'll have Eric and Rick on.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
A couple of times this month to get their perspectives.
But Eric excited to hear his take, which I know
is for evolving since he is deep in the weeds
of the Giants fan forum that is BBI and hearing
things in real time from ass hat sources and the like.
(40:13):
So it's always cool to hear Eric's perspective and how
it ebbs and flows throughout the process, particularly as we're
you know, cascading our way down to the end of
April and the inevitable draft day. And then we're also
gonna have Paul Deatino from Giants dot Com on the
(40:33):
show as well on Friday. Definitely wanted to again as
an ode to Dave T get some more Italians in
the mix this year, So Rick and Paul will be
our resident Italian guys who are coming in a mix.
And Paul obviously been covering the Giants for a very
(40:54):
long time in the building over there, you know, regularly
doing the Giants podcasts and what have you. So excited
to bring him into the mix this year and kind
of get a look inside the building, if you will,
to get his take on some prospects and you know
(41:15):
what he's hearing behind the scenes. Obviously he's not gonna
be able to share any war room secrets with us,
but still a cool perspective nonetheless, and then Obviously we're
gonna have SI on some of the other usual suspects,
but those are the folks that we have teed up
for some shows this week. I'm gonna be doing shows
(41:37):
this week. Next week, I'm on a work trip. Then
we're gonna be doing a bunch of shows the week
before the draft, and I got another work trip the
week of the draft, unfortunately enough. But you know, if
we can squeeze in a show or two from the
hotel room on any of these trips, we're certainly happy
(41:57):
to do it.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
You know, it's fluid, still.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Trying to maybe lock down a couple of new guests,
but uh, it's it's a lot of work. So I
appreciate your patience with me as I continue to grow
and develop this show year over year. We've got a
pretty good loyal fan base of folks who continually listen
to us.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Tuning in listen to me ramble today and you know
the rest of the month. But yeah, overall, really excited
for the draft.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Pumped.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
It's in Green Bay. I was actually out in Green Bay.
My brother in law now lives in Green Bay's wife's
originally from Green Bay, and we went out there the
last game of the season, Packers Bears at Lambeau Check
that out.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Such a cool town.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
If you're considering going to the draft this year is
a hell of a.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Time to do it.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Green Bay is a very cool place to the tour
of Lambeau Field and all that kind of stuff, and.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
It was.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Very very cool to hear all the history and the
fact that like the stadium itself, like the bottom Bowl
is the original stadium and they've since expanded and built
onto it and all that.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
So great football town. Everybody in that city loves football,
loves the Packers. So I don't think you could find
a better location to host an NFL Draft and Green Bay, Wisconsin.
So really excited to see how everything develops here in
(43:38):
a few weeks. But you know, well, as Paul Crane said,
put a ribbon on this bad boy for today, just
wanted to come on here, give you all the heads
up that we're coming back and we're kicking this thing
back off. We're gonna be having some good conversations.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
If you have.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Any questions or topics that you want me to cover
with any of these guests, feel free to hit me
up I'm on the Twitter x machine as scouts on
our show. You can find me there. I don't really
promote it. I'm not a huge social media guy. I
(44:19):
don't use the video from any of these interviews. I
have all the video, I just don't use it. I'm
not trying to turn this into a full time gig
as far as I'm concerned. This is just more so
for the die hard fan that really loves scouting and
wants to hear a little bit of unorthodox takes and
(44:40):
Day three guys where scouts really make their bones in
terms of advocating for players that could impact a roster
with a pretty cheap investment of draft capital. So you know,
Dave T never really use social media for this show.
I don't and and to use social media for this
(45:01):
show or do anything like that. I'm not gonna ever
look to monetize it. You're never going to hear sponsors
being read out before.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
During these shows.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
You know, that's just not the way that I want
to do this. Similar to Bobby Skinner kind of going
off on his own, I like being able to do
this on my own accord how I want to when
I want to talk to who I want to So,
you know, does that prohibit me from getting an all
expense paid trip to the Senior Bowl and the combine
(45:38):
doing all those fun sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Sure, but you know I have a life outside of this.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Again, this is more more so a hobby for me,
but excited to chat draft. I've been you know, locked
in my office late nights the last few months, just
till my eyes bleed or my wife is like, you
need to come to bed again, away from your computer.
You've been in there all day. So we're going to
(46:04):
continue to try to uncover some names that nobody else
is talking about, bring them up to you here on
the upcoming shows. But again I appreciate everybody tuning in
and we'll catch you on the next Scouts on our podcast.
What's up, everybody. Welcome back to the Scouts on Or podcast.
I'm your host, Dave dell Cole. We are back once again.
It is Draft month, officially April. Recording this on April first,
I wanted to give all of our listeners sort of
a preview, let you all know that we're coming back
(00:21):
in full force this month. We're going to have some
new guests, a lot of the guests that you all
have come to know if you've been listening to this
show since I took it over the last few years.
Excited to be chatting Draft with all of you in attendance,
chatting mostly about you know, later round prospects. Day three guys.
(00:47):
If you're new here, I will preface by saying that
I love chatting about later round prospects. I mean, if
you want to hear about Round one, folks, and if
the Giants are going to be taking Shador Sanders or
Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter, then you probably don't want
to listen to this show because I just can't take
(01:10):
another one of those conversations, even if you paid me.
So we try to differentiate ourselves here on the Scouts
on our podcast. As an homage to the late Dave T. Thomas,
who is the reason that we continue to do this
show was originally his show. If you're just tuning in,
I would encourage you to go back in the archives
of this program and listen to some of the old
(01:33):
shows with Dave T my mentor fantastic human being who
taught me everything that I know about scouting.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's tough this time of year for me and.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I'm sure for a lot of our listeners who have
been around since Dave T started this podcast with Paul
Crane back and I believe it was twenty eighteen. I
mischopping it up with Dave tea leading up to the
draft every single year, but him leaving me this podcast
(02:07):
to continue on in his legacy a beautiful way for
me to get to know more people in the scouting community.
Still have conversations with different folks, just obviously no longer
Dave Toy, so his memory lives on. We'll try to
(02:27):
incorporate some more stories around him and the impact that
he had on us, the scouting community and all that
good stuff. Also want to shout out Paul Crane. While
we're on the topic of the former history of this show,
(02:47):
Paul has been a fantastic mentor to me in reviving
this podcast over the last few years and me learning
how to become a podcast host. I mean, I never
anticipated that I would become a podcast host. I don't
really still necessarily qualify myself as a podcast host, but
(03:08):
more of a casual fan who likes to talk draft
and was given this platform to be able to do so.
But Paul has certainly helped me when it's come to
the formalities of scheduling guests and writing scripts. It's a
lot of work this podcast game, I'll tell you that much.
(03:28):
And this is a side hobby for me, not my
full time job obviously, so I do with it what
I can. But generally I like to come on here
and kickstart this show again once free agency has sort
of played out enough that we have a general sense
(03:49):
of what we're looking at for the draft this year.
I don't really find a need to kickstart this show
up and speculate about what are the Giants going to
do at quarter back. There are bazillion shows that you
can listen to if you want to hear all that
kind of stuff. But what I am to do here
is let you all know about some of the later
(04:11):
round prospects in the draft that you might not otherwise
hear about, but you will certainly hear their names.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Called on Day three.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
It's an interesting time, to say the least. Since we've
last caught up. You know, Jim Naggy has since left
the Senior Bowl. Very sad to see him go, Excited
for him to you know, do great things. Is the
GM of the Oklahoma Sooners football program. Wish him all
(04:43):
the best big shoes for whoever takes on his role
down there remobile. Jim was a guest of the show
last few years, so definitely appreciate him taking the time
for us, and excited to see everything thing that he's
going to do in.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
His next endeavor.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Subsequently, yesterday, Peter Schrager leaves Good Morning Football. One of
our other guests historically on the show, Mat Hamilton was
an original producer on the first iteration of Good Morning
Football when it was still originally intact, and you know,
sad to see that program sort of dwindling away in
(05:24):
terms of like the original folks who were involved with it,
but you know, excited to see how Peter's scope changes.
As it was announced today that he's going to ESPN.
I really look forward to seeing him duking it out
with mel Kiper at some point down the road. And
(05:47):
then the big news today in Giants podcast World talking
Giants losing Bobby Skinner. Obviously a lot of back and
forth on the Twitter x machine regarding that, and Bobby
dropped the show earlier today kind of explaining his side
of things. Definitely want to support Bobby anyway that we can.
(06:11):
He's a great dude, obviously loved by all his listeners
and Giants fans. So he's trying to start his own business,
which is no small feat at all. He's looking for
folks to subscribe to his Patreon channel. I believe it's
under Giants Nation show. So if you're so inclined to
(06:35):
help another Giants fan out, please go look up Bobby
Skinner and who's new endeavor and support him in any
way that you can. But after all that, let's get
into some of the draft stuff for this year. We'll
start with the quarterback talk. I hope we don't get
(06:56):
into too much of this in our upcoming shows, but
I will kind of set the stages I like to
do in this initial show of just where my head's
kind of at my expectations of things and what I
would do if I had any sort of say in
the matter with the Giants. So I have no desire
to draft a quarterback this year, Not in the first round,
(07:19):
the second round, the third round, day three, undrafted free agent.
Don't see the value in it, don't understand the rationale
behind it. You bring in Wilson and Winston, and I
know Tommy DeVito's still on the roster, but I just
(07:41):
really don't see when you had the opportunity to take
a quarterback in a quote unquote better class last year
and passed it up to take Malik Neighbors. You didn't
take main man Joe Milton in the sixth instead we
(08:02):
went with Darius Muissow. I just can't fathom a world
in which it makes sense for the Giants, particularly after
signing two veteran free agents, to go quarterback in this one.
If somehow the likes of a Jalen Milrow fall in
(08:23):
our lap at the top of the third, is there
a little bit more of a justification where the value
is substantial enough that you could make that sort of investment. Sure,
do I think that's gonna happen. No, everybody who's saying
Jackson Dart's gonna go in the first round, now, Jalen
(08:44):
Milroe going to go on the probably back half of
the first somewhere in the second. So I don't really
see any rationale behind taking a quarterback in the second round,
third round, anything of the sort. You know, for me,
the quarterback position, you got to really be infatuated with
(09:07):
a prospect, and I haven't felt that way in quite
some time, outside of Joe Milton to one extent or
another last year, but more or less developmental prospect by
comparison to the likes of Josh Allen when he came
out and I was absolutely in love with him. I
(09:30):
am a big, height, weight guy when it comes to
being a quarterback in the NFL. I'm frankly pretty particular
about measurables when it comes to any position that we're
talking about here, but quarterback especially. And you know, everybody
was in love with Jaden Daniels last year. I had
(09:51):
my reservations around Jaden Daniels' long term health, which would
have prohibited me from wanting to right up to take
him by any stretch.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Last year, I was pretty.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Vocal that I was not a fan of Caleb Williams
or Drake may wish all those guys at best.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
We'll see how it all plays out.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But long window way of saying that I have zero
interest in addressing the quarterback position. We saw plenty of
holes to fill on this roster, and I think that
it makes a ton of sense to try to fill
some of those with some quality players, particularly in the
early and mid rounds. If I had my druthers about it,
(10:34):
I would love to trade down. I am of the
old school, the Bill Belichick mode of if somebody gives
me a pretty good haul to move back, I'd rather
more swings of the bat than, you know, taking somebody
just for the sake of taking him. I think in
(10:56):
the first round, day one, day two of this particular
draft year, plenty of quality talent that we could add
into the roster. If you know, we're given the opportunity
to trade down, and even if it's still within the
top ten, or within the top fifteen, or even the twenties,
(11:21):
you give me a good enough haul, I would be
more than happy to take that. Whether those picks were
additional in this year or next year, I'm fine in
investing in the future.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You know, whether.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
The regime will still be intact next year is a
highly debated topic, and you know, will they be willing
to forego taking an impact player now for the sake
of developing a roster down the road when there's uncertainty
around them being here long term, You know, probably not.
(11:58):
I assume that they're going to stay, and I want
to take the high profile, blue chip prospects.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
That will be available to them.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
But you know, every show that you're probably listening to,
you're hearing the debate on Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter.
I've got concerns about both of those prospects. Abdul Carter's
foot injury, Travis Hunter's frame in general. I know one
(12:29):
of our guests, ci and I agree that Hunter is
probably better suited for a long term career in the
NFL as a wide receiver by comparison to a cornerback.
I don't think that he has the build to be
able to handle tackling as much as we would need
(12:54):
him to. And I'm also not a huge fan of
the prospect of him playing on both sides of the ball,
even if one of those is in a limited fashion.
You're just wearing the tread down on the tires. It's
not to say that he's not an incredible athlete that
I expect him to make an immediate impact on whenever
team drafts him, and if it ends up being the Giants,
(13:15):
I will certainly.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Root for him.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But overall, you know, it just doesn't make sense to
me to bring somebody like that in. I could see
the value he would add as a cornerback, but there
are a lot of other players in the first round
that I don't think are discussed as much, and if
we were to able to make a slight trade back
(13:41):
could certainly make a ton of sense. And top of
that list for me is actually Tyler Warren. You're probably thinking, Dave,
you're absolutely nuts. Again, I will preface by saying, I
know that I'm a lunatic and I like to come
up with unorthodox and out of the box ideas around
(14:02):
different players at different positions that other folks are not
talking about. So why the hell does it make sense
to potentially consider taking Tyler Warren. I would consider him
even at three, which I know will never happen. But
I think he's a really special talent that doesn't come
along every day immediate impact player at a position that man,
(14:24):
we haven't had an impact player.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
In I can't tell you how long.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I don't really qualify Evan Ingram as an impact player
at that position. He was serviceable, but he was basically
just a big body, wide receiver attempting to play the
tight end position. So Tyler Warren sort of top of
my list in terms of alternative ideas for the Giants.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
In round one.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And I think the other thing that I really like
about Tyler Warren is that he gives some support to
THEO Johnson. Obviously both Penn State guys. There is huge
expectations on THEO Johnson in year two, coming off of
a pretty significant surgery that is difficult to recover from,
(15:07):
and you're just really putting THEO in a really bad
spot if we don't address the tight end position. Tight
End is actually one of my highest needs in this draft,
and there's some really strong prospects on Day one and
Day two. I get that we're probably not going to
(15:28):
take Tyler Warren, but Elijah Arroyo out of Miami, Mason
Taylor out of LSU are a couple guys that could
really upgrade that position. Give our quarterbacks a safety net
over the middle again, take some of the pressure off
of THEO Johnson and turn tight end in from a
(15:50):
potential position of concern that if THEO doesn't work out,
we're going to have to address next year into something
that we can actually roll with going forward for the
next couple of years and see how it kind of
plays out. You also give THEO more time to recover
from that injury rather than thrusting him into the deep
(16:11):
end of the pool and just hoping that he doesn't
reaggravate that injury or have another one. So Tyler Warren
definitely a guy that I think should be in the
mix on day one at three lower, depending on how
far we trade back. But I think he's a really
special talent. I haven't seen a tight end. I'm normally
(16:36):
not an advocate of a tight end in the top ten.
Last time I was was TJ. Hockinson back when he
came out of Iowa. Was not in love with the
Kyle Pitts of the world and some of these other
folks who have come out. But brock Bowers, Like brock
Bowers last year, the injury history of brock Bowers really
(16:57):
turned me off, but you could see even for a
low league team like the Raiders, Rock made an I
media impact. I think Tyler Warren could certainly surpass him
in terms of the impact that he makes straight away
in his rookie year. So I think he's gonna be
a solid guy for somebody. Jihad Campbell is another one.
(17:19):
Linebacker is another position of need. As far as I'm concerned,
Bobby ocarake up and down in a different defense. We
have to see how all that shakes out for him.
Obviously modestly priced free agent that we sign a couple
of years back, but is he going to stay with
(17:41):
us long term into another contract? What's going on with
Michael mcfaddener. We thrilled with Michael McFadden as our second
interior linebacker. You know, he's good, but I feel like
there are plenty of folks on this roster that would
be good depth pieces and if an injury happened, can
step in play the position, handle the role, et cetera,
(18:04):
et cetera. But you know, I just really don't see
that position between Bobby and Micah being something that I'm
super confident in heading into you know, this next season
where we have a daunting schedule, and you know, investing
in a young field general, an impact player like a
(18:28):
Jihad Campbell. I mean, you throw on his tape and
he is vicious. I love what I see out of him.
He can do at all. He can drop into coverage,
you can play the run, he can rush the passer,
big body guy. A lot of the linebackers this year.
You know, it's not an incredible class for linebackers. There
(18:49):
are certainly some quality linebackers that you can get on
Day three. I'm sure we'll cover some of those names
with some of our guests going forward. But you know,
the kid out of UCLA in the second round, I
don't really think that he's worth the hype there. But
(19:13):
Gid Campbell is definitely a guy that could make a
huge impact early on. I know he had the shoulder surgery.
I'm not like super concerned about that, but obviously the
medicals will need to check out. But he's a guy
that I absolutely love. Just took him in the BBI
mock Draft. Quick plug for Big Blue Interactive dot Com,
(19:36):
Matt g running that mock draft every year, switched to
the Tampa Bay Bucks as their GM and was a
static to get Gihid Campbell picked nineteen for the Bucks
the other day, and I could certainly see him sliding.
You know, He's at a position that has in recent
(19:56):
memory been cascading down draft boards for one reason or another.
And you know, is he somebody that's going to be
available for us at the top of day two. No,
but if we were able to trade back into that,
you know, I would call it twelve to twenty range.
I would love to add g Hi Campbell into the
(20:20):
mix of our linebacker room going forward. And again, linebacker
is a position that I don't think is nearly as
deep this year in this class in terms of day
one impact starters. There are plenty of folks you can
get on Day three that could certainly develop into a starter,
but I think it's going to be sort of like
(20:41):
that Micah McFadden type of a player that can do
certain things well and struggle at other things.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So I think Jihat is.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Sort of alone at the top, you know, and Jalen
Walker is more of an outside linebacker as far as
I'm concerned. I'm talking specifically about inside lineback, but a
couple other names that I like at the top, and
I know that I mentioned at the beginning of this
show that I wouldn't be getting too much into the
(21:10):
first round folks, But again, just talking a little bit
more out of the box with some of these ideas,
giving you some different names. You know, Will Campbell is
a guy that I think should be in consideration at
number three. Oh he's got the t Rex arms. I
come on, man, The measurements have been an issue this year.
(21:34):
Is funny to kind of see the discrepancies between the
combine and the pro days, and you know, somebody must
need some glasses somewhere, or you know, get a new
measuring tape, whatever the case might be. But I think
Will Campbell checked out with the arms at his pro day.
So whether that was done to help his drafts suck
(21:56):
by his school, what have you, that's an entirely different debate.
But Will Campbell, he can't ask for more out of
a kid like this, starting at left tackle his entire career,
Can he play tackle? Does he need to move into guard?
I think he can play tackle. The thing I also
like about Will Campbell is the fact that the position versatility.
(22:19):
Although he's played predominantly a left tackle, if we bring
him on and then he starts at right tackle, and
then you got illumin Or as a swing tackle, which
is where I think Illuminor's sweet spot is again a
serviceable player, but would be much better as like that
sixth man off the bench if you will reserve guy
(22:42):
that comes in when there is an inevitable injury, which
news flash, on our offensive line, there are injuries every
single year. So if you start Will Campbell on the
right side of the line and then god forbid, Andrew
Thomas gets hurt again this year, then wow, instead of
being completely screwed and having no solution for that debacle again,
(23:06):
well Will Campbell can just slide right over there and
man the left side of your offensive line better than
anybody else you're gonna have on the roster. Again, not
an incredible year for offensive tackles. I think interior offensive linemen,
there are a lot of strong folks, but offensive tackle
is definitely a.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Huge need in my eyes.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I don't know that it's going to be a priority
for this organization on day one or day two, but
there's some quality talent in the first, second, borderline, third
round that we should definitely be considering pretty heavily. But
I think Will Campbell is not getting enough love and
attention from Giants fans as a real deal possibility. Last
(23:48):
year on this show, I talked at nauseum about Joe Alt.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
If the Giants were going to trade up.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
At all, I would want to take Joe Alt, not
one of the quarterbacks. Obviously, Joe Alt ended up going
picked before us to the Chargers. I'm not saying that
Will Campbell is the same caliber as Joe Alt, but
he's pretty damn close. You know, Joe Alt obviously from
a measurable's perspective, superior to Will Campbell. But you know,
(24:18):
it's hard to argue that Will Campbell is going to
be a solid NFL player for the next decade. I
like his demeanor, he loves football, he loves being an
offensive lineman, and I think that that would certainly help
shake up that room where you have the likes of
(24:39):
and Evan Neil. Where is he gonna play guard? Obviously
the experiment of tackle isn't going anywhere. We're gonna pick
up his fifth year option and continue to, you know,
try to invest in him and make it work so
it's not a total embarrassment between him and Cavon. I
don't know seems something like that ship has kind of sailed,
and I think mostly because Evan Neil doesn't love to
(25:03):
play football, and I don't have that concern with Will Campbell.
There are plenty of guys who, you know, you start
playing football young, you go through college and everything like that,
and the next thing you know, it takes a toll
on you. You know, whether it's physically, mentally, emotionally spiritually. I
started playing football in high school and then that's when
(25:25):
I met Dave t and started to get into the
scouting stuff a bit. But it's hard to start playing football.
I started playing when I was nine. You know, if
you pick it up later on in high school and
then you know, your best years are in college and
then you go into the pros.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Great, but a lot of these guys.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
They started when they were young in Pop Warner like
the rest of us, and it's a difficult proposition to remain,
you know, rejuvenated year after year after year if you
don't really love it, care about it, and have the
cajones to want to play it, you know. So Will
Campbell's another one. Juday Baron in the cornerback out of Texas.
(26:10):
I do think there is a lot of validity to
the fact of, again, where's the depth at the position.
We signed Paulson debo, Great, he's coming off a broken leg.
Hopefully you know he's young, it works out for us,
and then you've got Deontay Banks. Okay, great, but what's
(26:31):
really going on there? And if he doesn't work out,
I mean, I get that. A lot of these positions
I'm addressing are with folks that have been drafted in
the last few years. But if you missed on a prospect,
you missed on a prospect, you got to own it.
You've still got to try to rectify it, which is
again where trading down and amassing more picks to mitigate
(26:54):
the risk of you know, shooting yourself in the foot.
Putting all of your eggs in one or two basket.
It makes a ton of sense. But you know, cornerback,
we got Drew Phillips. I think Cordell Flott was a
reach in the third round. I saw him as like
a sixth or seventh round pick when he came out
(27:14):
of LSU.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
A few years back.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
So you know, again, cornerback is a position where we
are one catastrophic injury away from it being a desperate need,
and cornerback, similar to linebacker and offensive tackle, is a
(27:38):
position where I think you can get a lot of
quality folks on Day one and Day two, and then
it starts to drop off a little bit. It'll be
interesting to see if there's a run on cornerbacks. I
think if that's going to transpire, it'll probably happen in
the second round. So you're gonna have to allocate, you know,
your second top of the second round draft pick, which
you might say, oh, that's insane. Well, last year on
(28:00):
this show, I asked pretty much all of our guests
if there was one position that the Giants could afford
to ignore going into this draft, what would it be?
Unanimously if you all recalled safety.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Was the one position that everyone was.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Like, screw it, we don't need a safety. We'll get
by without it, even though we just lost Avier McKinney.
And then what happens. We take Tyler Nuban at the
top of the second round last year. So it's not
to say that it's impossible. If they really like somebody
at the top of the second it makes a ton
of sense. There's a run on the defensive lineman in
(28:35):
the bottom of the first half of the first round,
you know, I think that or the second half of
the first round rather then I could see us potentially
looking at a corner early in Day two, or trading
back again. You know, you don't have to just trade
back in the first round. You could trade back in
(28:56):
any round.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
So Jday is.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
A guy though that I really like, kind of put
him in like that Quinnon Mitchell territory as somebody who
I would think would go in the top ten, but
just based off positional value and team needs and all that,
I could see him dropping down into the late teens.
So it would be a prime suspect for us in
(29:21):
trade back scenario to potentially go after help stabilize that room,
fill that void. Kenneth Grant has been skyrocketing up draft boards.
I mean it's been pretty wild to see, you know,
Mason Graham, this Mason Graham that Kenneth Grant has gone
(29:42):
from I would say at the start of the process
a mid round day like second round guy to mid
round first round guy. I've seen him in Mox as
high as you know, the early teams, which is justifiable.
(30:03):
I mean, he's got an incredible first step for a
guy his size, and you could say, oh, well, we
don't need a player like that because we've got Dexter. Again,
where's the depth, we don't have it. He would be
a welcome edition. Let bowe and figure out how to
use him, all that kind of stuff. So Kenneth Grant
(30:23):
is a guy if we trade back into the mid teens,
that I would definitely like to consider. And then lastly,
Ted McMillan T mac he's somebody who I mean, when
you were looking at the draft prospects after initially after
the draft last year, McMillan was at the top of
(30:43):
everybody's list. You know, incredible athlete, stands out from the pack,
very unique in what he brings.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
To the table.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And now all of a sudden he's dropping out of
the top ten going in the twenties. I think that
he's somebody that you know is falling because of some
minor injury concerns that if the medicals check out. I
haven't seen a prospect like McMillan and quite some time.
(31:14):
The easy comp on him is obviously Mike Evans. I
can understand that from a size perspective, but it's like
if Mike Evans sort of met Odell Beckham in terms
of the catch radius if you pop on even just
like some of the practice tape of McMillan just screwing
(31:35):
around out there, the catches he's making one handed, threw
his legs, all this craziness that he practices. You know,
we talk about not having a big body receiver on
this roster for quite some time and signing to veteran
quarterbacks that love to just launch it down the field. Great,
(31:58):
we've got a bunch of speedsters, but to have a
safety net like a McMillan would really go a long way.
Is wide receiver, you know, as much of a need
position wise as some of the other ones, probably not.
I could see us skipping wide receiver more than tackle,
(32:21):
you know, corner, linebacker, defensive line, obviously interior offensive line.
So that's probably the biggest moon shot. But I like
him a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
So those are some.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Of the initial names that I think aren't being talked
about enough for the Giants to potentially consider, you know,
in the first round. Granted, majority of them would require
some degree of a trade back. We're able to amass
more draft capital, and everybody's.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Gonna be Dave, You're moro on you got to take
the blue chip prospect to Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter? What
are you thinking?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I'm thinking that this team is nowhere near being able
to really compete for a Super Bowl. So similar to
the likes of a Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas, where
we draft them and their sensational blue chip prospects, that
(33:23):
we waste their careers their early years. Andrew Thomas gets
hurt a bunch, you know, which, those nagging injuries become
a real issue as he continues to go throughout his career. Well,
what are you gonna do with Travis Hunter? What are
you gonna do with Abdul Carter? Abdual Carter's got the
foot injury. So you know, again, I would prefer a
(33:44):
trade down mitigate my risks have more swings of the bat,
particularly on Day two of this year. I think there
is so much depth on Day two in this draft,
Like it just blows my mind how much value there
is on Day two, And we could really benefit from,
(34:06):
you know, getting some of those folks in the door here.
It wouldn't surprise me if they don't do that. I
assume that they won't do that, but you know, It's
definitely something that I would love to see us do
because I think it bodes better for the long term
(34:29):
success of this organization.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
With this regime or without this regime.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I'm fine hanging on to day Ball and Shane for
a couple more years. Like they have built the roster
in a way that I think makes a lot of sense.
That they add some hiccups along the way. Sure, you know, look,
I mean, I am in the recruiting world in my
professional day to day life, and when you're first handed
(34:58):
the keys to the kingdom and it's your first try,
you're bound to make some mistakes. You got to learn
from those lessons. You got to persevere through those scenarios
and still come out on top. So was you know
the Daniel Jones thing at debacle, Saquon Barker thing at debacle.
(35:19):
You'll let McKinny go and you know all these things
for Joe Shane. Sure, Evan Neil cave On Thibodeau. You know,
you missed some draft picks here and there. Fine, but
last year had a pretty decent draft. Not the draft
I would have had, but the way that they have
sort of invested in this organization over the last couple
(35:42):
of years gives me hope, which is more than I
can say about a lot of the former regimes. And
I do appreciate John Marra giving them the capacity to
hang around so that this is a more desirable destination
for people to come to, you know, just going to
get the the old hook off the stage after a
(36:03):
couple of years if things don't turn around.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
I mean, look, we've been.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
In literal hell Giants fans for quite some time, and
some level of stability is good for us long term,
particularly with some young folks in the front office and
promise for the future. So I think that that's certainly
exciting for me. Then, you know, I'm looking forward to
(36:32):
continuing this show the next few weeks. We're gonna have
some guests on this week. We're gonna have Rick Sarraatella
from All Access Football, one of the few guys I
can really nerd out with when it comes to day
three prospects. I mean, most people only really know prospects
(36:52):
on day one and maybe day two, probably more so
half a day two, So being able to really dig deep,
I mean I was looking at stuff this past weekend,
really trying to catch up a lot on my my
film work, and I got into the depths of, you know,
(37:17):
day three undrafted free agent types to the point that
I found a prospect out of a school that I've
never heard of, and it really made me think of
days Dave t and uh Kyle Duggart coming out of
Leonora Ryan. I had never heard of Leonore Rhyan a
day in my life prior to him bringing it up
(37:37):
on this show when he was hyping up Kyle Duggar
months before the draft. But there was this kid, Tristan Rankins,
out of a school.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Called marsh Hill. I think it was.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Something completely random, Mars Hill, Mars Hill.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I believe it was never heard of the school.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I mean, it's hard to to stump me when it
comes to schools, but Mars Hill is one that I.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Really had no idea about.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
And Tristian Rankin could go on the seventh round. He's
apparently getting some good hype, you know. So I want
to dig a lot deeper into some of those names
that you're not hearing on every other show, but you'll
want to know about when day three of the draft
comes around, assuming that you care as much as we
(38:34):
do about Day three of the draft and how all
that shakes out. So we're gonna have Rick on. I
kind of want to take the opportunity with Rick to
deep dive into the defensive line depth of this draft.
I'm sure that you've all heard at nauseum man, this
(38:55):
is a really deep draft for defensive lineman. And then
you hear the same names Kenneth Grant and Mason Graham
and Walter Nolan and you know all these guys, which
totally valid that you know they're being talked about a
lot more since their early round prospects. But there are
(39:16):
plenty of guys that I think you should be hearing
about on day three where that depth is that nobody's
talking about. So Rick being a draft junkie like me
and knowing you know, the deep, deep rounds, we'll see
(39:36):
if I could try to stump him.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I highly doubt that I will.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Then we're gonna have Eric Kennedy, the big Man from
BDI Big Blue Interactive on like we have the last
couple of years.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
We'll have Eric and Rick on.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
A couple of times this month to get their perspectives.
But Eric excited to hear his take, which I know
is for evolving since he is deep in the weeds
of the Giants fan forum that is BBI and hearing
things in real time from ass hat sources and the like.
(40:13):
So it's always cool to hear Eric's perspective and how
it ebbs and flows throughout the process, particularly as we're
you know, cascading our way down to the end of
April and the inevitable draft day. And then we're also
gonna have Paul Deatino from Giants dot Com on the
(40:33):
show as well on Friday. Definitely wanted to again as
an ode to Dave T get some more Italians in
the mix this year, So Rick and Paul will be
our resident Italian guys who are coming in a mix.
And Paul obviously been covering the Giants for a very
(40:54):
long time in the building over there, you know, regularly
doing the Giants podcasts and what have you. So excited
to bring him into the mix this year and kind
of get a look inside the building, if you will,
to get his take on some prospects and you know
(41:15):
what he's hearing behind the scenes. Obviously he's not gonna
be able to share any war room secrets with us,
but still a cool perspective nonetheless, and then Obviously we're
gonna have SI on some of the other usual suspects,
but those are the folks that we have teed up
for some shows this week. I'm gonna be doing shows
(41:37):
this week. Next week, I'm on a work trip. Then
we're gonna be doing a bunch of shows the week
before the draft, and I got another work trip the
week of the draft, unfortunately enough. But you know, if
we can squeeze in a show or two from the
hotel room on any of these trips, we're certainly happy
(41:57):
to do it.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
You know, it's fluid, still.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Trying to maybe lock down a couple of new guests,
but uh, it's it's a lot of work. So I
appreciate your patience with me as I continue to grow
and develop this show year over year. We've got a
pretty good loyal fan base of folks who continually listen
to us.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Tuning in listen to me ramble today and you know
the rest of the month. But yeah, overall, really excited
for the draft.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Pumped.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
It's in Green Bay. I was actually out in Green Bay.
My brother in law now lives in Green Bay's wife's
originally from Green Bay, and we went out there the
last game of the season, Packers Bears at Lambeau Check
that out.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Such a cool town.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
If you're considering going to the draft this year is
a hell of a.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Time to do it.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Green Bay is a very cool place to the tour
of Lambeau Field and all that kind of stuff, and.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
It was.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Very very cool to hear all the history and the
fact that like the stadium itself, like the bottom Bowl
is the original stadium and they've since expanded and built
onto it and all that.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
So great football town. Everybody in that city loves football,
loves the Packers. So I don't think you could find
a better location to host an NFL Draft and Green Bay, Wisconsin.
So really excited to see how everything develops here in
(43:38):
a few weeks. But you know, well, as Paul Crane said,
put a ribbon on this bad boy for today, just
wanted to come on here, give you all the heads
up that we're coming back and we're kicking this thing
back off. We're gonna be having some good conversations.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
If you have.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Any questions or topics that you want me to cover
with any of these guests, feel free to hit me
up I'm on the Twitter x machine as scouts on
our show. You can find me there. I don't really
promote it. I'm not a huge social media guy. I
(44:19):
don't use the video from any of these interviews. I
have all the video, I just don't use it. I'm
not trying to turn this into a full time gig
as far as I'm concerned. This is just more so
for the die hard fan that really loves scouting and
wants to hear a little bit of unorthodox takes and
(44:40):
Day three guys where scouts really make their bones in
terms of advocating for players that could impact a roster
with a pretty cheap investment of draft capital. So you know,
Dave T never really use social media for this show.
I don't and and to use social media for this
(45:01):
show or do anything like that. I'm not gonna ever
look to monetize it. You're never going to hear sponsors
being read out before.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
During these shows.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
You know, that's just not the way that I want
to do this. Similar to Bobby Skinner kind of going
off on his own, I like being able to do
this on my own accord how I want to when
I want to talk to who I want to So,
you know, does that prohibit me from getting an all
expense paid trip to the Senior Bowl and the combine
(45:38):
doing all those fun sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Sure, but you know I have a life outside of this.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Again, this is more more so a hobby for me,
but excited to chat draft. I've been you know, locked
in my office late nights the last few months, just
till my eyes bleed or my wife is like, you
need to come to bed again, away from your computer.
You've been in there all day. So we're going to
(46:04):
continue to try to uncover some names that nobody else
is talking about, bring them up to you here on
the upcoming shows. But again I appreciate everybody tuning in
and we'll catch you on the next Scouts on our podcast.
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