Falcon\Soldier Ep. 2 "The Star-Spangled Man"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening to Screen Heroes. Hello, everyone, Welcome back to the Screen
Heroes Podcast. I am your host, Derek, and I have with me
my two lovely, long time fabulousco hosts, Ryan and Ray. Hi.

(00:26):
Hi, you always sound like unsureif you should respond to me,
Ray calling on me. No,I feel like that introduction was just a
little too nice to be like genuineWow. I mean I feel like,

(00:47):
you know, you're stretching for timeor something already. I'm just now that
you don't like us, that youwere just like stretching for a time.
That's fine. I'm just talking tomy best friend and my wife. You
know, No, big I don'teven like you guys. Yeah, I
know. Yeah, That's why Ido this show. I want to see
how many episodes of a podcast Ican do with people I dislike. It's

(01:07):
a social experiment. Oh, you'retruly brave. Anyway, Tonight today this
week on the show, we arediscussing the Falcon and the Winter Soldier episode
to the Star Spangled Man, andthat means this is your spoiler warning for
anything in the Falcon of the WinterSoldier, as well as the rest of
the existing MCU and plot possible plotpoints from existing comic book source material.

(01:36):
So you have been warned. Thisis your warning, all the warnings.
So things definitely ratcheted up a notchthis. I liked this episode a lot
more than the first one. Iknew they had to kind of like set
some groundwork at all, But Ireally liked this episode, of course,
because you finally get to see thetwo of them together, right, I

(01:56):
mean, yeah, yeah, sothe whole shows you're you know, set
up for, So that's a fairpoint. And that really was the best
part, right, It's just thetwo of them bickering and bantering off of
each other. I can't believe theywent to couples therapy and they like intertwined
legs, and I'm like, ohman, man, I thought it was

(02:19):
adorable personally, Yeah, it wasabsolutely adorable. Yeah. I like that
scene too. It was a goodscene. All those a little bit spoiled
in the trailer, yeah right,this episode had so much like this was
ninety percent of the trailer came fromthis episode, which makes me a little

(02:42):
happy that it's not from ones furtheron that you know, we're going to
be more intense, I guess true. I mean, and that would make
up pretty much everything from Act one, because you know, it's out of
six episodes we're going in episode three. That should theoretically be the starterback two
if it's all evenly space, whichisn't necessarily the case, but being is
this is more traditional Marble fair thanlike one division, it's probably more accurate

(03:07):
that that's probably starting into Act twonow. I guess it is kind of
crazy to think we're a third ofthe way through it already. Yeah,
it doesn't feel like that much hashappened yet, but so let's let's let's
dive into it. Then. Obviously, Bucky's pissed about the reveal of the
new Captain America. He's mad thatSam gave up the shield, and they

(03:31):
go on a little mission together becauseBucky won't leave Sam alone, which I
don't know. That raises maybe somelogistical questions about how he was just allowed
on that airplane, but means anAvenger, I'm pretty sure he can do
what he wants, right Like thatseems a little nebulous, but the yeah,

(03:52):
the Avengers Garge just kind of theyhave a free pass. They keep
calling that out. You know,in the two episodes we've seen, they've
definitely mentioned that multip full times thatyou know, they kind of get to
go where they want what they want. I mean to a certain degree.
It's you know, the Civil Warwas all about raining them in, and

(04:16):
now after they brought everybody back andfought fan oas the whole world's like whatever.
Yeah, I guess they can dowhat they want. They saved half
the universe, so right, Andthat's that's kind of where the friction.
The main friction of the episode,you know, other than obviously the bickering

(04:36):
between our two heroes, is thatthe new Cap wants Bucky and Sam to
work with him on this flag smasherissue, and you know, we're supposed
to believe that he's got the bestintentions. We get his whole kind of
backstory and introduction, and the shoulddefinitely just talk about that a bit him

(04:58):
as a character in Yeah, there'sthere's quite a bit to unpack with this
episode. Uh, a lot ofstuff that they're not saying. Um,
just some really intense, subtle thingsthat either are going to come to fruition
or not. So you know,if you guys need me, I am

(05:19):
here to explain comics to you inorgan stories and stuff, will you woman
explain them to us? Um,I'll marvel explain them. Okay. So,
so, first of all, theactor is wonderful and you can see
Kurt Russell coming through him. Yeah, it was. Yeah, that was

(05:40):
delightful for me, as much asI know I'm going to hate this character.
Yes, it's cool that him andhis dad are both in the MCU.
It is fun and he is doinga wonderful job. Uh, you
know, with with this so far, part of me wonders because of how
Trolley Want Division got. Part ofme wonders if maybe they won't take this
character in the direction he historically hasgone. They're gonna make him that way,

(06:04):
don't don't kid yourself. I'm just, you know, throwing out another
possibility, that's all, except it'salready been shown that that's not what he's
going to be going a different way. Yeah. The thing is John Walker
has very long history in the comics, and he definitely has a slow ramp

(06:25):
up too, so he We don'tknow what their plans are for these characters
post this show, these shows,and they could be getting continuations in movies
that we don't know about. Weknow that Disney is not above going back

(06:46):
to this format. You know,Disney Plus keeps saying that they are doing
well with subscribers with each new show, so it's possible, Like I know
that right now, no sequel seasontwos or planned, but you know,
money talks, and so anyway,John Walker could go many different directions and

(07:10):
we could see him go from youknow, obstacle to antagonists to full on
psychopath within just this show, orwe could see all that play out over
the course of a while and overmultiple pieces, and it could be done
really well. You know, aslow build up to this wouldn't be the

(07:33):
worst thing when we all also haveZemo and the Flag Smashers to deal with.
So my prediction is that he's goingto kill somebody in the next episode
brutally, like straight up. He'sgonna get his ass kicked by the Flag

(07:55):
Smashers at some point, even morethan he did in this episode. He's
gonna if he doesn't already have thesuper Soldier serum already, then he's going
to go after the Power Broker toget it. That was a little unclear.
Was that unclear for you guys?This episode, he's like throwing the
shield really far and like catching itand when he was doing the interview on

(08:16):
Good Morning America and they show likehis training, like, I don't can
a normal person do that? Iknow they said his charts, but he's
not superhuman. And no, inthe comics he does get his powers from
the Power Broker and he it's actuallyreally frustrated because he can't handle the shield

(08:39):
in the comics and he has togo to the Power Broker to do so.
So do you think at this pointhe's got already got I think he
already has. I think we're goingto see some once we see the Power
Broker and actually who it is,and it's going to reveal that he got
it already. Yeah, I thinkit is. Why was he totally unable

(09:01):
to stand up to any of theflag smashers? Well, I mean the
problem with it too, Bucky alsohas a super Soldier serum and he that's
true. Thought of the thing isthey're also super soldiers. They've received the
super Soldier serum as well. That'sthe thing we're dealing with an entire series

(09:22):
where everybody has a super strength tosome degree. Well, the trailer Falcon
showed throwing the shield similar to howJohn Walker did um in the comics,
Sam Wilson gets a super Soldier serumtoo at some point, So I guess,

(09:43):
like for me, like I canmore explain away Bucky kind of getting
beat up a bit because it wasit was kind of caught off guard.
He's clearly not in a good mentalheadspace, and yeah, he's clearly outnumbered.
But when you know, new Capcomes flying in the the helicopter with
Battlestar, they come in with apretty good like strategic advantage and very quickly

(10:05):
lose side sidebar because where it's notyou know, really important enough to spend
a lot of time on dissecting.But can I just say how much I
love the fact that Bucky stopped thecar once he learned his code name was
Battlestar, Like, no, no, yeah, the White Wolf has a

(10:28):
problem with a guy named battle battleStar. Yeah. So that I just
cracked up at that. That wasone of my favorite moments in the entire
episode. This episode has like alot of humor in it, So if
yeah, I was going to picka humorous moment, that was it for
me. It was a good one. So I personally don't think that he

(10:52):
has the serum yet. Okay,I think that because like we've seen in
the trailer, Sam throwing the shieldand sticking it into a tree already.
Yes, that that's apparently something thatnormal people can do. Very very light
like vibranium. Maybe that's a propertyof vibranium in the MCU. I don't
know if it's that way in thecomics, but um, that is extremely

(11:15):
light compared to other metals, sothat it throws like a frisbee basically.
So during the Civil War storyline inthe comics when Steve Rogers died, he
was a kind of shield, Yes, but they approached Hawkeye first and because

(11:39):
you know, the country needs itor whatever, and Hawkeye tries it out.
He is not the first one tohandle the shield, but he's the
first one to not break his armwhen it's coming back, and uh,
it's it was important to know thatthe boomerang effect is usually what causes the

(12:01):
issue. It's not like people candefinitely throw it, but when they try
and catch it, that's when theyend up having this struggle. So we
don't know why at this point,why John Walker was necessarily chosen above a

(12:24):
lot of other people, and wedon't know what he had to go through
yet. So it could be thathe has received absolutely no super Soldier serum,
or that he it was all offthe charts and they all did and
he's got all, you know,he's won a bunch of awards and metals,
Coal Medal of Honors or something likethat, metals. But like,

(12:45):
here's here's where my problem starts tocome in there, Like when when Battlestar
falls off the truck, when hegets kicked off the truck, Newcap throws
the shield right under him, AndI don't care who you are. I
don't think a normal person can dothat. I I love that scene though,
just because, well one because itwas cool, but also because it

(13:07):
the whole thing, this whole episodeis kind of to make you like that
guy right right up until the thingwhere don't get in our way or whatever
that bullshit was. And you knowwhat, I don't even think that's as
like terrible. If I was inJohn Walker's place, I'd be like,
Okay, don't get in my way. Let me just tell these two Avengers
that just save the world to justget out of our way. You know

(13:28):
what am I going to do tohim? Like he's tried to recruit them
and I'm just saying that I knowwhere he's going to go, and I
know that I don't like him alreadykind of thing. But I understand where
he was coming from in that momentthat I don't think it was that insulting

(13:52):
or offensive of a line. Well, it probably bothers him just on a
personal level that these guys are basicallyrugues, because that line comes after saying
explains that they don't have to gothrough all the same red tape that that
he does, and they can workquicker, And that probably gets at him
a little bit because you know,no matter who you are, red tape
is frustrating unless you're the one whomade the red tape, right, And

(14:15):
so even if we're gonna end upnot liking this guy, he probably isn't
thrilled about the level of approval hehas to go through for every single action.
He doesn't have to go through anyfor every single action. Because when
he when Bucky is getting reprimanded,he comes in and he's just like,
no, he's not doing that anymore. He's you know, that was hours
later, it was nighttime. Forall we knew. He got some typing,

(14:37):
yes, imply that he just likethis is she said on whose authority,
and he just points to himself.So I mean it's implied that that
he is just able to make decisionslike this. There has to be some
kind of legal jurisdiction for that though, And so well, I mean there
does like he can't just break outprisoners. He did, but he didn't,

(14:58):
Like there is clearly paperwork involved inthat, as my Polearly, they
showed all the paperwork he had togo through on it, So no,
because that would not make for aninteresting scene like what he could do.
You're gonna show him signing a formlike come on, you know what I
mean. So anyway, I thinkthat at the moment, he's being written
kind of inconsistently from a like physicalattribute perspective. That's what's bothering me,

(15:22):
because like it's supposed to be unclearas to whether he's like as strong as
Steve Rogers or not, right,I mean, they do make it be
like or make it seem like,hey, he's this hometown boy, like
you know, just just a goodold American, you know whatever. But
but then yeah, they show himwhat the scene that throws me every time

(15:45):
is him throwing that shield at theat the targets and nailing like four targets
and catching it with no issues.But then also like the scene that we
were just talking about and the factthat he's a soldier, right, like
he knows combat, no strategy.But then in that scene he throws his
weapon, his main weapon away tosay a battlestar, right, which is
that something that somebody that would bethat's like very selfish or like, you

(16:08):
know, well that isn't the oldestfriend, like even the worst people have
friend. I thought it was agood character building scene because you're supposed to
like him in this episode for themost part, so that was a good
subtle way of showing his character.So I liked that. But also it
didn't seem like a very like histactics went out the window at that point

(16:30):
because now he has literally no advantageover because it didn't seem like he really
had much of a plan for thistype of engagement, like this might have
been the first time if they reallyhad to go up against a group like
this without like military backup, youknow, And so it felt more like
that was an emotional personal decision totry and say of his high school buddy

(16:51):
at a minimum, high school buddy, we don't really know how long they've
known each other, you know,and he was just trying to to say
them. That whole scene was superwell choreographed. I was a huge fan
of the way they did that becauseeverything, you know, I've brought up
on this podcast before about how afight scene shouldn't just be a fight scene,
it should like progress the story.And I think you got that.

(17:15):
You got the character development moment forhim. You got when he caught when
Bucky caught Walker's shield and like themost passive aggressive catch and like handing it
back. There was there was thatsame scene I think when he throws the
shield, if like Bucky hadn't duckedor whoever, I can't remember if his
Bucky or Falcon, but if thatperson hadn't ducked, he would have gotten
decked in the head. And itkind of showed that Walker didn't really care

(17:38):
that about these other people. Itwas mostly out for himself. And the
fact that he pulls out a gunand shoots somebody, like, well,
Cap does that in the first movie. Yeah, Cap carries a gun,
but in the first movie, buthe's like not really Avenger Captain America at
that point right, like he's awar Yeah, this is like a bunch

(18:00):
of you know, they're trying tobust up a terrorist tech and Captain I
mean HeLa never really has shown carryinga side arm. You're right, I
guess for me, I just thatthat part doesn't bother me as much because
it starts to get the line getsa little silly because you know, you've
got Hawkeye's clearly killing people with arrowsat iron Man's clearly killing people with his

(18:21):
laser blasts, and so like ifit's a pistol, I don't know if
that really changes anything. I didn'tsay it bothered me. It's but it's
a character development thing, right,Like that pistol is there because it gives
us very specific thoughts of is thiswhat Captain America is for us or not?
You know what I mean, becauseit's never implied Captain America doesn't have

(18:41):
this rule about not killing like Batmandoes. Right, some of these things
he's done to people in the movieswould definitely kill them. Like I'm pretty
sure he hits somebody with a motorcycleat one point only one Batman had that
rule. The thing is guns inthis country at this current state have.

(19:03):
You know, they are a symbolof quick, thoughtless aggression and violence.
So arrows don't have that stigma anymore. They probably did, you know,
a few thousand years ago. Butguns have a stigma to it. So

(19:27):
when a hero pulls out a gun, we know that just right off the
just with the symbolism we connected to. Well, these guys aren't necessarily you
know, pure. It doesn't meanthey're bad necessarily, but that they're not

(19:49):
I don't know, pure. Yeah, that's it is worth noting in the
comic books that when Bucky first getsthe Shield and goes out on his first
mission with Black Widow, they comeup upon a group of like five guys,
and Black Widows says something like,I wonder how the new cap is
going to take care of this,and he literally just like walks out and
shoots all five of them and says, I'm not Steve, but I'm not

(20:12):
trying to be Steve. So youknow, this isn't that far off from
what Bucky did in the comics,really, right, So I think the
big thing that we need to addressis that John Walker is propaganda, just
like Steve Rogers was at the beginningof First Avenger he like. They even

(20:36):
play a rendition of The Star SpangledMan with plan I love that high school
and it I think like it's importantto note here that once again the government
has meddled and they wanted to createa tool to distract from whatever they're gonna

(21:02):
do. This guy is gonna goon Good Morning America. He's gonna go
in front of the cameras and betheir beard and exactly his babies and sign
them shake babies, Shake babies.We hope he's a bad guy, sign
hand shake babies, And uh,that's what they wanted. But instead of

(21:29):
getting a guy who refuses to bea tool and does good, he's going
to end up refusing to be atool and seeking out violence or revenge.
He's not going to go rescue aton of men behind an enemy lines.
He's going to go off the rails. Because you can also tell that this

(21:51):
guy does not like the fact thathe's being used. Yeah, he's right
anxious. So so who do youguys think is going to be the real
villain? Like, is it gonnaend up being John Walker? Is it
gonna be the Flaxmashers? Is gonnabe a Zmo? I really don't want
it to be Walker, mainly becauseI think that you have to be really

(22:15):
careful creating his downfall, because upuntil this point, he's got this spotless
record with you know, all theawards that we talked about earlier, and
for him just to become a bigbad guy, there needs to be some
type of significant catalyst for that.And maybe it's something like maybe Battlestar dies
or something in the middle of aconfrontation with the Flaxmashers, or in the

(22:37):
comics, john Walker kills battle Sirby accident. I like kind of a
victim of his own hubris, Okay, because like I just I need something
to make him go crazy, becauseat this point, like maybe I don't
like him necessarily, but it doesn'tmean he's evil, right, just because

(23:00):
he's taking up the cap mantle doesn'tmean that he's evil. So I kind
of want them to be a littlebit careful with that. And if Sam's
going to become Captain America at somepoint, I don't necessarily want it to
be because the other guy just completelywent insane. Well, if John Walker
ends up being the bad guy forthe whole thing, it's going to be

(23:26):
a huge political statement because John Walkeris supposed to be the down home American
apple pie baseball, you know,kind of guy that he's the representation of
when the Jackasses say, you know, make America great again. That's the

(23:48):
faith They imagine that every citizen lookslike him and talks like him and acts
like him. So if they goall out, it will be a huge
political statement. And I don't knowif Disney's ready for that, but I

(24:08):
also don't think that they're not ready. I think they can. They could
do this. Yeah, So inchat, Russ is saying that he thinks
that he's gonna go crazy after gettingthe super Soldier serum, and so yeah,
obviously that could do it right.It's it's a big problem with the

(24:29):
Soldier serum projects over the years isthat most people didn't survive at all.
Well, he said in the inthe First Avenger that it like enhances your
enhances your traits you already have.So that's why they picked Cap because he
was everything good. Well, maybeJohn Walker has tendencies to be not so
good, and so that, youknow is what. Yeah, I think
that's pretty likely, and I thinkthat he's going to go to the powerbroker

(24:52):
begains he gets his ass whooped byflags by the flag smashers multiple times and
realizes he can't fight against people havesuper you know, super powers unless he
himself also has superpowers. It's kindof like that good guy with a gun,
you know how, how how doessomebody that whole argument, you know
what I mean, like I needa gun to beat somebody with a gun
type of deal. And I thinkthat that's going to be like their subtle

(25:12):
way of kind of touching on that. So it also doesn't really bode well
for his wife that we briefly met, because you know, in the comics
his family was murdered, and uh, it's very likely that she's going to

(25:33):
be you know, another woman ina fridge. Yeah, so let's talk
about that super soldier serum. Soin the comics, it's it's Steve is
obviously not the only one that getsit. Steve is one of the few
people that it works on. Butwe also meet Isaiah Bradley in this episode,

(25:53):
and this comes from a called Red, White, and Truth where they
kind of take from real life.During World War Two, American government experimented
on black soldiers. This is kindof there. So Isaiah was picked out

(26:18):
of a group of men, andhe received the super Soldier Serum not willingly
and involuntarily. He was sent behindenemy lines to you know, kind of
do some horrible shit after Cap disappeared, and then he was arrested in the

(26:41):
comics for stealing caps uniform even thoughthey gave it to him, and he
says here in the show that hewas gone for he was put away for
thirty one years. So Steve Rogersis the only one who has received this
super Soldier serum to a certain degree, and it actually worked out for him

(27:03):
that he's had and he still hada really tough life. He absolutely did,
and but he was the only onenot, you know, I guess,
completely victimized by it. I thinkit's important to note that when Isaiah
is being experimented on, he's oneof three hundred men and the only one
to survive. Yeah. That's intensescene. Yeah, yeah, seeing his

(27:30):
strength throwing that thing into the wall, I mean that was cool. That
reminded me a lot of when Stevelike ripped that log in half. Yeah,
yeah, would apparently seems very similarto me. I don't know,
but yeah, it's the sound,it's that snapping and crunching you know,
and and also what is very dense, so to throw something into it that's
thick like that is pretty powerful.You know, that kid is supposed to

(27:52):
be Eli Bradley, who goes onto become the patriot and leader of the
Young Avengers. Now that oh isremain to be seen at the same actor
will do that. By they they'veintroduced the character and characters, and it's
now the fifth Young Avenger that we'veseen so far on screen. Now,

(28:18):
for me, I think one ofthe most interesting things about the scene with
Isaiah is that he basically is bothSam and Bucky right, because the idea
is like Sam and Bucky have verydifferent issues, and it's part of why
they bicker with each other so much, because they both have a lot of

(28:40):
emotional strain and a lot of veryserious things going on in their heads.
But they're different and so they havea hard time relating to each other.
But Isaiah's actually had to go throughboth of those types of things, and
I think it's really a unique experienceto see all three of them there,
and I'm I'm a little disappointed wedon't get more of him. Maybe we

(29:00):
get to see him again at somepoint, but I think having some conversations
with the three of them could bejust really eye opening. Yeah, I
definitely agree. I mean it wasit was a powerful enough scene, even
as short as it was, butyeah, it would be great to get
more of that. And then,you know, the one of the most
controversial scenes in the show on Twitterand just the Internet in general happens right

(29:23):
after that outside of the house.You know, I've talked to several people
this week that feel like the showis being very preachy about the racial kind
of racial issues in the world rightnow and things like that. I didn't
feel that way. I felt itwas, you know, it's a little
heavy handed, but it's not.I think it has to be, because,

(29:45):
you know, subtlety is not somethingthat people are picking up on right
now in regards to these things.Unless you're getting slapped in the face with
it, you're not paying attention,you know what I mean, or not
not you guys, but I thinksociety in general, well, I also
thin, you know, so it'shard. It's hard to be super subtle
with it when you have your maincharacters, and those are the characters that

(30:07):
you're going to see go through stuff, right You're not gonna They're not gonna
do a scene with some random personthat we're never we've never seen before and
never we'll see again, go throughone of those things that's not going to
impact the overall story. And thereality is that science fiction and fantasy,
which comic book genre falls under,those have had a responsibility for a very
long time to do these types ofconversations, sometimes in pretty heavy handed ways.

(30:33):
You know, um, just becausehaving Cap punch Hitler, it was
pretty heavy handed. You know.It's there's in the nineteen seventies when they
did the Green Lantern Green Arrow storyand Green Arrow calls out Green Lantern for
ignoring the issues on Earth. Buthe goes out and he fights like the

(30:57):
injustices of the galaxy, and thisblack man is like, I see you
protecting the green people, the Purplepeople, the Orange people, but what
have you ever done for the blackpeople here on Earth? You know,
people thought that was preachy too,and now we look back on it as
being one of the pinnacle moments ofcomics, kind of pushing the boundaries of

(31:23):
what is right and wrong. So, you know, people can complain about
this being heavy handed at times.The Loan Shark scene from the or Not
loan check scene, the loan scenewith the banker, and the first episode
is very heavy with systemic racism.However, it's not as heavy handed as

(31:48):
the cops thing, or even thepeople that want to deny that there's racism
here in America know that the BlackLives Matter movement is heavily against cop brutality
and has been fighting that. Soyou see cops in the show, and

(32:09):
they know what it's about. They'renot ignorant, they know exactly what they're
gonna say, what's coming next.So I think that sometimes story calls for
heavy handedness, and this is oneof them is getting the message across.

(32:30):
Those cops pulled over a black manfor having a raised voice over something he
absolutely deserved to have a raised voiceover, and it turns out he's not
even the one with the warrants,but they the cups don't give a shit
until they know who he is,and then all of a sudden, it's

(32:52):
like, oh, oh oh,sorry, sorry, we didn't know,
so you're just going to harass thisguy for no reason. The reality is
is that fiction has tried allegory fora long time and people didn't get it.
You know, in the sixties StarTreks episode Let This Be Your Last
Battlefield is about a planet where peopleare white on one side and half on

(33:15):
the other black on the other halfof their face, and there's another group
that's opposite that, and they hateeach other for that reason and that reason
alone, and people still don't knowthat's about racism. People still don't get
the point of that episode, Andso all of this does. I don't
even think it's heavy handed. Ithink it just shows real world examples of
what actual normal people have to gothrough, and that in this case,

(33:37):
you know, it didn't help Samin the first episode to be an avenger,
and in the second one it didhelp de escalate the situation, and
that in itself is a problem thathe had to be an avenger to de
escalate the situation. You know.It's like the early episode of Fresh Prince
of bel Air where Will and Carltonget arrested for driving too nice of a

(34:00):
car and everything is a problem untilit turns out that Uncle fills a lawyer
at a big law firm. Now, all of a sudden, the cops
want to listen and take a stepback. It shouldn't have to be that
way, and I think that thisisn't heavy handed. This is just showing
reality and what it takes when youare a black man out there in the

(34:22):
United States, that you have tobe a cop for people to back down,
or you have to be, youknow, a public official or an
athlete or something noticeable for people togive you the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah. Absolutely, there's nothing wrongwith heavy handedness in some stories, like

(34:44):
if you're going for symbolism, thenyeah, a heavy handedness kind of defeats
your point. But this stuff isreal and it's not even the worst we've
seen in real life. If thiswas real life, there's a good chance
Sam would have had a couple bulletsto the chest at some point on that
happy note what's what's next up onthe docket thing. So at that point,

(35:09):
Bucky gets arrested because he skipped histherapy sessions, which isn't all that
shocking because he didn't want to beat the one in the first episode,
so that's not too surprising. Andthat's when we get our great little scene
between Sam and Bucky at couples therapy. So before we dive into that,
I think this would be a goodspot for us to take a short break

(35:29):
and when we come back, that'swhere we will pick things up. All
right, we'll be right back everybody, Okay, we're back. So we've
got couples therapy, Sam and Buckycouples therapy. What do you guys think?
It was adorable? I thought itwas really funny, and then I

(35:52):
thought it was like it got tothe necessary point where we finally get the
answer of why Sam gives up theshield and at like Bucky, I'm not
satisfied with that answer. I stillthink there's a little bit more to it,
but well, we'll see. Ithink more importantly even then finding out

(36:15):
why Sam didn't give up the shieldis finding out why Bucky took it.
So personally, Wednesday, I'm giveup the shield. That was I think
the main takeaway from me of thatscene. But yeah, I mean it's
it's shows. I think we've allfelt that at some point, that kind
of you know, imposter syndrome isvery relatable, especially for people that create

(36:38):
things, which obviously all three ofus do, so you know, I
think we can all relate to thaton some level. And I liked that,
you know, even if you're anavenger and you've saved the world and
done all these you know, youstill have that syndrome like maybe I wasn't
maybe I'm not that guy you know. Well, well, so we've only

(37:01):
ever heard about Black Widow removing thered from her ledger, whereas with Bucky
we have seen it. We haveseen the red that he is talking about,
that he's trying to atone for,and I too would be haunted by
that constantly. So it's without adoubt not surprising he has imposter syndrome.

(37:27):
Well, I mean, yes,that's obviously a thing that exists in something
that maybe he's dealing with. ButI think there's even more to it than
that, because part of it iswhat would he have become if he hadn't
been the winner soldier? Right?Would he have been a good person?
Would you have been a good man? Would you have been a good soldier?
All those types of things, andCap being kind of the epitome of

(37:52):
what it means to be a goodperson, still believed in him, still
saw the good in him, iskind of what kept him going, right,
It gave him something exactly, Yeah, it was this bright spot in
the world sees something good in me, So if I work hard enough,

(38:13):
I can be that good. Andif you remove that, then then that's
where things really get dark, becausewho if nobody thinks that there's good in
him, why should he think thereis? Yeah? Right, and I
think that that's that's a really importantscene and it's a lot heavier than most
of the emotional stuff we get inthe MCU. You know, we talked

(38:35):
about Ironman three dealing with PTSD,and a lot of people kind of write
that one off, and I thinkthat this is doing a better job.
I think the writing has gotten moresophisticated when it's dealing with these types of
you know, depression issues, othermental struggles. I really thought it was
a good line. Yeah, itdefinitely is. We didn't mention the scene

(38:58):
where we get the white Wolf referenceagain, and then I think probably my
favorite scene in the episode, wherelike where Sam like sneaks up on Bucky
just kind of like appears behind him. I thought that was great. You
know, Sam has some skills too, um, But then seeing red Wing
get destroyed was sad, especially whenit made like the sad chirp when't she

(39:20):
smashes it? Right? And Iwere joking about how well they did that
because it was just too expensive ofspecial effects work, probably honestly. But
I mean he'll get another red Wing, you know, right, but like
at the very end of the season. Oh yeah, it'll be like a
stark tech red wing. I don'tknow, if he's Captain America at the
end of the season, maybe it'llbe something like an eagle or something.
It's true. Yeah, he'll havea literal bald eagle flying around. Yeah,

(39:45):
a literal bald eagle. Yeah yeah. Maybe he'll also name it Bucky.
Oh god, I hope. Sogotta imagine that conversation. So in
the coming QLIX, maybe Rachel cancan give me more insights. This didn't
didn't John Walker run around with agroup like shirtless commandos that were called like
the buck Keys or something like that. I be true. I'm pretty sure

(40:07):
it's true. Like there it's anacronym for something, but it spelled out
Bucky like they were BUCkies, iswhat they were called. I think I
read something about it. I waslike, oh my god, if that's
real, and Battlestar was one ofthem, I think I don't. I'll
look at up he was. Idon't think we're gonna go to see the

(40:31):
shirtless like gunstrapped commandos following John Walkeraround, but maybe we will meets Magic
Mike here in the MCU. Yeahyeah, basically, um so okay,
and then that this is of coursewhere we end up with kind of the
confrontation towards the end, where Buckyand Sam basically tell Cap new Cap no,

(40:57):
they're not gonna be working with him, They're gonna be doing it their
own way, and he kind ofthreatens them, you know, with a
stay out of my way kind oftone at that point. I think,
like I agree with Ray that that'snot really that big of the statement from
his perspective, but I think asthe audience, we're supposed to think that
that's the switch from him being thisnice, good guy to being an antagonist.

(41:19):
Not necessarily a villain, right,but an antagonist. I'm not really
sure there's much else to add tothat, because we talked a little bit
about it earlier. Anything you wantto add, well, no, not
really. I I am very eagerto see where we are with Semo.
The fact that they're going to haveto team up with Zemo for a bit

(41:40):
and then he's going to portray themto a certain degree or you know,
they'll get tired of it. I'meager to see where that goes. But
right now that is not what weshould be talking about. We should be
talking about the flag smashers and howthose were not vaccines. Those they were
stealing serum from the powerbroker. I'mmost like Liam theorizing here that their end

(42:07):
goal is like the whole plot ofThe Incredibles when everybody special nobody is they're
gonna disperse the serum to people.And that poor guy like went down in
a blazing glory to get them good, just like knocked over. Hilf walked
down from him, got shot abunch of time. He distracted them so

(42:30):
that they can get off the ground, Like no, by blocking well,
I think that's what he was hoping, is to kind of make a last
stand. But since Ali has asuper strength and not you know, resiliency
or bullet immunity, he knocked itdown so they can drive after him,
and then he just died by machineguns. Yeah, and pushing the whole

(42:53):
power line thing over was impressive.I can't do that, that's true.
I mean it was a super soldier, so you know, so at least
that's something. Yeah, I meanThe flagsmashers are interesting, right because right
now they're they're kind of painting bothsides of the story here, and you
know, they are from from theblip and they remember with the world was

(43:15):
kind of forced to come together andyou know, national borders came down because
we all had to work together onon you know, strained resources and strained
connections and things of that nature.And it's an interesting point to be made
because now that things are back,and I actually talked about this last week,
how like I felt like nothing wasdifferent, how like everything was just
fine. And I guess that wason purpose, because that's what the flag

(43:37):
smashers are upset about, that likeeverything just immediately went back to the way
it was before the blip, whereall the borders are back up and the
militaries are back up, and nationalismis you know, back in full force,
and you know, you have justit's almost like it never happened.
And the people who are who werethere, who lived through it, they've

(43:58):
changed, they had to change,and it was five years and so they're
not the same people that they were, but they're expected to live in that
same world that has just come back. Yeah, they are. It's it's
upsetting, and I like the line. You know, they they're so happy
about everybody that came back, theyforgot about all of us that we're still

(44:22):
here. It's it's a very interestingidea because a lot of the time,
like terrorist organizations in TV and filmget these very glossed over emotions motives.
Excuse me, right, you knowthey're stealing arms, or they're stealing chemical
weapons or you know whatever. There'slike when twenty four came out, it

(44:43):
was almost one hundred percent racial motivation. They just wanted to put some brown
actors in a bad position to havethem be, you know, a terrorists
of the week and not give anysort of depths or motivation or reasoning behind

(45:05):
anything. They just wanted to makethe the weird nationalism pro war after nine
to eleven kind of bullshit statements.Okay, I don't know, are talking
about twenty four now, that's whatI'm just saying that I was just agreeing

(45:28):
that, you know, TV hasthis trope of not giving motivation to terrorist
organizations. Just it's easy to puta couple of people in on the antagonist
side, called them terrorists and that'sit. That's all you have to do.
So it's it's very cool that nowin phase four of UH the MCU,

(45:57):
we are getting complex villains, complexantagonists, people with motivations where we
all sit back and we're like,oh, oh yeah, yeah, I
can see that that makes sense.Yeah I might do that. That's all
I'm saying. Like you talked aboutwhat's heavy handed, what's heavy handed is
like red Skull. Red Skull isa heavy handed thing, right, He's

(46:20):
this super Nazi that kind of lookslike a devil skull devil skeleton person,
you know. Like, I likethe idea of our villains being multifaceted,
with them having backstories and having clearmotivations that are more than just I want
to conquer the world, because youknow, like that's just not that interesting
anymore. And don't get me wrong, a lot of these classic comic book

(46:42):
villains were written that way because that'show comic books, you know, were,
because they were short and they weremeant for kids, and that's how
that was. But I liked thatthe MCU has grown up a bit and
is getting more sophisticated, I think. But I mean that's also the narrative
that the US wanted us to have, you know, Germany and Japan,
Bad America, good like they didnot want there to be any more layers

(47:09):
to that, sure, but Imean even other villains like you know,
the Joker for example, or youknow the Penguin and Catwoman like these these
are very you know, generically motivatedcharacters early on, and it wasn't until
much much later that they got moredepth. I'm gonna say probably the most

(47:30):
controversial thing I've said on this episode, and that the Joker is still not
He has zero depth. His motivationis still lame. It's fine, that
wasn't really what I was trying tosay, But that's okay, Okay,
I'm just gonna leave because apparently I'msaying all the wrong things, all of

(47:50):
them, all of the wrong things. I think that's why Zimo in the
show is going to be and inthe MCU so far as an interesting villain
because this motivation is not world dominationand so well where. His motivation is
to turn the Avengers against each otherand break them up from the inside because
of what they did to his familyin Cicobia. So you know, his
motivation is not a mustache foling villain. It's something much much deeper and more

(48:14):
personal than that. It's why Killmongerworked also in Black Panther. But in
the show, we're gonna get Zemowhen we know that, and it'll be
interesting to see where he's at atthis point and what exactly he's gonna he's
gonna be. You know, it'sreally interesting because if my theory is correct
and the Flags Flag Smashers are smugglingserum and they want more people to have

(48:40):
the stoum to kind of protect themselvesand go back to the way they were,
then that's completely opposite of what Zimo'smotivation is, where you know,
he doesn't want any more superheroes becauseall they do is cause carnage and it's
gonna put them at odds, likehow are they both wrong and right at

(49:04):
the same time. For sure,I'm definitely curious where they where they're gonna
go with that. I guess we'regonna get Zemo, probably right at the
beginning of this next episode based onthe way this one ended. Yeah,
i'd imagine. So same with SharonCarter. Oh yeah, I'm waiting to
see her. She was great witha little that we've got of her.
You know, I was a bigPeggy Carter fan, So seeing Sharon Carter

(49:25):
will be really cool. But Imean, we haven't gotten much for an
mc at this point, so hopefullyit's cool, I guess other than just
like Cat's potential love interest in U, which was awkward in the Civil War.
Yea, it was. It endedup being awkward. It wasn't awkward
at first, and then it gotreal awkward. It's weird now if you

(49:47):
think about it too much. Itgets really especially now that Cap has gone
back in time to be with Peggy, Like, yeah, it sheer?
Is she not his niece? Like, man, I don't know timelines,
man, I guess she has tobe right, Yeah, But then Capt
go to a different timeline. That'swhere the time travel and the MCU gets

(50:10):
a little funky. I don't thinkwe need to get into that. But
that's a different episode. Yeah,so Chat wantson do we think that episode
three is going to be a jailbreak episode? And that is a very
interesting question because for me, canSam and Bucky just walk in and say
hi to Zemo whenever they feel likeit, or do they have to really
like bust in there. We knowthat he's that he gets out of jail.

(50:35):
The Zemo does because we've seen inthe trailers him walking outside of jail,
so we know he gets out somehow. I guess it's to do Bucky
and Sam just kind of like pullhim out because they need him, or
and then he escapes, or like, you know, does he break out
or do they break in. Ican't imagine that they on their own have
the authority to release him, youknow what I mean? M Yeah,

(51:00):
Like, so I think they haveto break him out. I think they're
gonna break him out of jail orwhatever you want to call that place.
That's just gonna put targets on themagain. They're gonna have to get repardoned
and another you know, megalomaniac Alien'sgonna have to come down. Yeah.

(51:22):
Probably, I mean that's the MCright, that's M well, yeah,
I mean eventually we are gonna getthem fighting like Kang or Mephisto or something
else that. Yeah, I thinkWalker is Mephisto. No, No,

(51:47):
this shows Mefisto's actually Arnam Zola wherehe was fine it the whole time.
Is that the guy that's in thecomputer now it is? Yeah, seems
likely he's a less silly modoc.Yeah, I can see that, which
will even look less silly than normal, starting with the new TV show that's

(52:09):
about the drop for modoc because thatlooks ridiculous as hell, it's true.
Are you gonna watch that? Ryan? I don't know when. Does it
come out in May or April?Soon? I'll probably watch it eventually,
Probably not right when it comes out, though, I've got too much other
stuff that I need to watch.Fair enough, Nathan phillions in it,
he's playing wonder Man. Yeah,it doesn't really appeal to me. Okay,

(52:30):
he's fine, but I wasn't aFirefly Firefly fan, so I don't
really have the same attachment to himthat everybody else does. Everybody else it's
just you most most nerds. Iwould say like ninety five percent. It
seems like, but a large percentage. Oh right? Do you feel like
singing? Chat would like you tosing? Why? What? I don't

(52:53):
know? Says? That was allalong? Chats fun to night. I
appreciate them. I appreciate you guys. Chat's wonderful. Yes, thank you.
Is there anything else you guys wantto talk about from episode two or

(53:14):
anything to that effect? Do wemiss anything? Probably? But I'm satisfied
they're putting a lot of layers intothese characters, and not just Falcon and
Winter Soldier, but every aspect ofthe story is interesting. I do wish

(53:35):
there was slightly more money put intoremoving green screen in certain places, but
yeah, that's really my only nitpick. I really liked this episode. Yeah,
I mean the green screen in thisepisode in the show overall has been
more noticeable than it was in OneDivision, So yeah, but I mean

(53:59):
One Division didn't have the kind ofaction sequences that we've clearly already had in
just two episodes of this show,so it's too completely different show. Yeah,
and obviously this team probably does this. One probably doesn't need nearly as
much of a CG type team asOne Division did, so exactly because ian
One Division had a ton of CGwork that you just don't even really notice

(54:19):
because they did an amazing job withit, and that doesn't get the credit
that it really deserves. A lotof the time, you'd be shocked at
how often CGI is in your faceand you just didn't know that that's what
was happening, right, But yeah, I mean the truck fight scene,
there was definitely some weird, weirdgreen screen moments in the background and stuff
like that, especially with Sam flyingand a couple of the closer up shots.

(54:43):
But I mean, with what they'vewhat they're doing, I think it's
still very good. Yeah, yeah, I mean it hasn't attracted from anything
for me. Surprisingly, usually that'sdistracts me quite a bit. It did
get me in that scene, butthat's it, and so I think that's
a pretty minor issue at this point, especially since you know, this has
a lot more going for it thanjust a couple of fight scenes. So

(55:06):
I'm definitely willing to look past that. Yeah, me too. All Right,
Well, then I think we shouldwrap things up here. Next week
we'll be covering episode three, whateverthey end up calling it, So join
us for that. If you're enjoyingour conversations, if you want to join
our chat, thank you to everybodywho did that this week. We really
appreciate your conversation with us some justfantastic comments and thoughts. You can join

(55:29):
us live on Tuesday nights at ninepm Eastern on our Facebook page, the
Screen Heroes Podcast Facebook page. Wedo this live so you can chat with
us, so please do that.If you can't join us live, but
you have comments or questions and youwant us to hear and think about those,
you can actually leave us a voicemailand it might make the show.
You can call us at nine onethree eight nine zero three thousand and seven

(55:52):
and leave us a voicemail and itjust might make the show. So we
would appreciate anything that you have tosay as long as it is appropriate.
We, of course, are theScreen Heroes Podcast. You can find us
at screen Heroes Pod pretty much everywhereon social media. Go to screen dash
heroes dot com to find all ofour links that we have out there in
the world for you. You canfind me at the Star Trek. Dude,

(56:15):
Ray, where can people find you? Apparently singing? Next week?
You have homework? Yeah? Right, uh? And I also have to
sing for DND too. This isbullshit, Like you told me that like
me and Zach have to do ace shanty. Yeah. I'm pretty sure
that wasn't a request for you guysto actually sing series of performance checks.

(56:39):
If you guys turned into something morethan that, and that's on you.
Oh I thought we were legit singingmy bad. Maybe maybe you are.
I don't know. That wasn't myintention. I would never force anybody to
sing in a Dungeon of Dragons campaign. I think bards should be forced to
sing if they're not gonna come upwith like a little quickly limericks is odd

(56:59):
podcast? All right? Fine,Ray is at Siren Ray. Ryan.
You can find over at Buster Props. Thank you so much for joining us.
We will catch you next time.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Falcon\Soldier Ep. 2 "The Star-Spangled Man"

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

All Episodes

Falcon\Soldier Ep. 2 "The Star-Spangled Man"

Dateline NBC