Falcon\Winter Solider Premiere

Episode 244: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Premiere

The blip is over and the MCU continues on without Captain America. That's where we kick thing off with our in-depth discussion surrounding the premiere of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier!

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Screen Heroes Podcast Credits

A Derrico Studios Production

Hosts: Rae Stewart | Derreck Mayer | Ryan Couture

Executive Producer & Editor: Derreck Mayer

Music by Flying Killer Robots

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You're listening to Screen Heroes. Allright, Hey, everybody, welcome back
to Screen Heroes. I feel likeit was just yesterday that we were here
talking about nerdy movies, and that'sbecause it was. This was our special

(00:21):
double week episode. Yesterday we recordedour thoughts on the Snyder Cut, as
available now at screen dash Heroes dotcom. And today we are talking about
the premiere of The Falcon and theWinter Soldier, which is entitled New World
Order. So that is a bitof a mouthful of things, but that's

(00:43):
what we're talking about today. Iam your regular host, Derek, and
I have with me my two lovelylongtime co hosts, Ryan Hello and Ray
Hey. Hello, Welcome back,guys. I feel so welcome good.
I'm glad you are very welcome tobe here. What a sweetheart you are.

(01:03):
So before we dive into the show, I thought it might be worth
mentioning just some some schedule changes fromMarvel and Disney. So Black Widow which
was originally slated for May, wellnot originally, of course, but had
been scheduled for May, and ithas now been moved to July ninth,
and we'll be dual releasing on DisneyPlus as part of the thirty dollars premiere

(01:27):
access feature thing that they have gone. Finally they're deciding to do that.
Yeah, it kind of feels likea little late at this point. Why
didn't they just do this like lastI don't know, November or whenever that
was last scheduled. I don't knowlast year. I mean, if this
had come Yeah, if they hadgiven us this option in October November,

(01:49):
I think we all probably would havejumped on it because we were really starving
for content at the time. Therewas just hardly any new content. And
you know, so what do youguys, what do you guys think you
want to spend the thirty bucks ornow it's gonna cost me twenty bucks to
go to the movies anyway, andat least if I pay it that I

(02:12):
don't have to listen to other peoplesnorting and coughing and making whatever noises they're
gonna make or in the movie,or like their phone's going off or all
that shit. Ray any any takeon that? I mean, I want
to see these movies, but Ido not want to encourage Disney or any

(02:32):
other streaming service said hey, notonly can you get monthly money out of
me, but you can get intermittentmoney out of me as well, So
I don't want to encourage that becausewhat comes, like other places will follow.
I think the biggest thing that they'regoing to run into is the old

(02:54):
pirates that sail the high seas doingreleases like this because I soon is available
to stream, it's available to capturechoir in other ways. So yeah,
you know they are going to losemoney that way, well at this point
doing it in July. I mean, if you if you look at the
way states are trending with their vaccinations, at least out here in Kansas and

(03:16):
Missouri, by July, everybody whowants a vaccine should be able to have
gotten one by then. So alot of other states are in similar situations.
And there's, you know, thiswhole idea that you know that the
federal government wants everybody to be eligibleby May first, and this is two
months after that. So how manypeople really want to drop thirty bucks when

(03:38):
they can now at that point goto the theater. I think, you
know, if this had been youknow, six months ago, it would
have been huge. But now,yeah, I'm kind of in this weird
boat of do I want to spendthirty bucks to see it at home?
Do I want to support that precedent? If it was twenty bucks, would
I be more willing to do it? I mean, I spent twenty for
Bill and Ted Face the music,but that was October September whatever it was.

(04:02):
You know, it was kind ofa different time period. So it's
weird it pushes shang Chi. Soshang Chi's now coming out September third.
It has not changed the dates forThe Eternals or Spider Man No Way Home
yet, which means that we've gota lot of Marvel content coming out if
nothing else pushes. It's basically sixMarvel movies in a twelve month period,

(04:26):
starting with Black Widow, which that'sa lot given to have a two year
gap essentially between Black Widow and theprevious Spider Man movie. So well,
that's the thing they're making up forlost time and especially lost revenue. Yeah
yeah, I just wonder, youknow, will it balance out? You

(04:47):
know, will people they're so starvedfor content, will they go or will
this run into a problem We've talkedabout before, where can people afford to
go to the movies three months ina row to see Marvel Films. I
Hey, I'm gonna say yes,just based on my friend group, the
pool that I see on social media, all of them are so ready to

(05:14):
see this movie that you know,they are ready to dull out the money.
So I think people are gonna say, yeah, I'll do it.
Fair enough. Well, that wasit on the news front. We just
thought that was relevant. So thisis your spoiler warning for the premiere of

(05:36):
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier,which also means it's your spoiler warning for
anything in the MCU that has comeup until this point. I doubt will
bring up much about WandaVision, butI'm sure we'll be talking about Endgame,
Infinity War, the Captain America,the Winter Soldier, so those things are
now officially fair game. You havebeen warned. All right, guys,

(06:00):
let's do it. Let's do this. Uh yes, go for yes.
Where would you guys like to starton this one? This one's a little
bit I think easier to tackle thanthe Snyder cut. But where would you
like to start? That's the top? At the top, Okay, I
don't know what that means. Well, I guess that's the beginning. So

(06:23):
at the beginning of the episode.Okay, so the beginning of the episode
is some mission that the military ison trying to get this airplane before it
enters airspace that they're not allowed tocross into, and Falcon is part of
trying to to get this guy who'son this plane. We don't really know

(06:46):
anything about this dude who's been kidnappedor why he's been kidnapped. I don't
know that we'll ever figure it out. It may have just been you know,
irrelevant for us. But lots offlying, lots of explosion, there
lots of murder really quick in thisepisode is a pretty Marvel content, typical
Marvel content, typical and what way. Okay, so I loved one division,

(07:11):
but it did feel nice to justgo back to like stuff blowing up
people blind. Okay, so alittle. But the thing is this collection
of scenes were done really well.That uh skydiving scene is a mixture of

(07:35):
actual skydivers as well as you knowdrone footage and cgi uh. Sam's new
Falcon costume is white and red insteadof the black and red, so it's
more closely tied to what he worein the comics. They really showed off

(07:58):
red wing for the first time sincethe Civil War kind of reference to him,
and they gave him little Droy chirps, which was adorable. It was
super cute. And then you know, we got Batrock, the leaper Back,
who has been both a CAP villainand a Spider Man villain, and

(08:24):
you know, we last saw himin Civil or not in Civil War and
Winter Soldier by wonderful George Saint Pierre, who was an actual MMA fighter.
So basically any choreography that he doesis awesome, absolutely definitely shined in the
scene. So like the way thisopens, it is really well done.

(08:45):
And you know, Wanda Vision wasgreat for what it is and this is
great for what it is. Sotwo completely different shows. They both set
the tone very well and like,you know exactly what you're getting. Well,
maybe not as much with Wat Division, but definitely with this one.

(09:07):
Want Division was the create it wasall I mean, it was very different,
so I don't know, yeah exactly, and it was everybody talking about
what's happening, what's happening every episode. This one probably is not going to
be quite that way, although Istill do think Mephisto is behind this,
so yeah, that's fair. Maybethe new Cap is Mephisto. I mean,

(09:28):
they got a good actor for it. I mean, I definitely think
they're gonna leave us hanging each week, and they're gonna try and throw us
some curveballs. But there's no likereality bending going on, right, And
they're not introducing mutants to the Marveluniverse in this shop, or they might
I guess they could, but like, they're not creating mutants in the shows.

(09:50):
What if they did, though,like just like episode three, all
of a sudden, just a hardright turn. Yeah, yeah, Quicksilver
shows up again. Well, Imean that there's reference to the Power Broker
in the credits, so it's verylikely that they are introducing altered soldiers or
something along those lines, somebody thatgives people powers. Yeah, I think

(10:15):
that's a real possibility. It isa cool opening scene. A lot of
people die in that little montage offighting, which I felt counted at least
ten. It felt like a lot, it really did, especially for like
just the opening of this show,and we haven't really seen these characters in
a while. And it wasn't evenBucky doing it, you know, it

(10:37):
was it was Falcon doing all thekilling, you know, So that was
just that caught me a little offguard how quickly they were like, nope,
lots of people dying on the show. Yeah, that was our first
comment on it too, was like, holy crap, I guess they're not
scared to just murder a bunch ofpeople, you know, on screen.
It's not even off screen there's explodingpeople and whatever else. It's just weird

(10:58):
on his Knee show, you know, yeah, right, like it's it's
it's Marvel, but it's on Disney. Plus it's like right next to Baby.
I don't know, it's weird.Yeah, I mean Captain America is
when it is a very popular characteramong kids, and this show is definitely
like targeting Captain America crowd more thananybody, So it is weird. Yeah,

(11:18):
I mean he killed people too,don't get me wrong, But yeah,
it wasn't quite as blatant as this, and it wasn't as quick either,
Like it didn't happen as early onin the movies, you had some
time to warm up. I thinkit happened so fast. I was caught
off guard. I was expecting aslower start. Him using the wings as
a shield. Even though we sawit in the trailers, it was still
really cool. It definitely feels likeStark, like he has Stark Tech going

(11:41):
on, even though Stark isn't aroundanymore. Torres makes that comments, and
I completely agree with him. Ilike, there's no reason why he couldn't
have been funded by Stark in betweenyou know, Winter Soldier where he shows
up and end game when Tony dies. It's true. Well, you know,
Pepper could be doing things too.You know, we have no like

(12:03):
she she owns the company, right, it's her company by this point,
so she could have been funding thattechnology as well, but she's renaming it
Goop. But at the same time, though, I do wonder like would
it be okay because like Roadie Suitobviously was was originally Stark technology, but
he more or less steals it now. I guess Tony never bothers to try

(12:26):
and get it back. But wouldthe military be okay with Falcons stuff all
being Stark Tech if they don't haveany control over it? Well, I
mean Falcons modifying his own shit inthe show, so obviously I don't have
too big a problem with that.And Falcons not in on the book's employee
of the military at this time,Otherwise that reveal at the end would sting

(12:52):
a lot less. Yeah, butit's first two in the bank scene that
he's that he has military contracts.Yeah, but an independent contractor, doesn't.
I mean, I don't know,it's not like he's he's not a

(13:13):
soldier right now, I think,isn't that what kind of what you meant,
rachel Or? No, Well,I've just met that, like the
one mission we see is completely offthe books. Maybe he does. I
just extrapolated that in assumed that everythinghe does with the military is kind of
off the books since they're not reallydoing a lot of avenging st Yeah,

(13:39):
I mean there's not I doubt there'sany other Avengers that are like, yeah,
I'm gonna do some military work whilewe're off. You know, he's
kind of a military guy himself already, So it does make me wonder what
Ross is up to at this point. Yeah, I think he would have
been a good character to bring backin the show. Maybe, I said,
yeah, who says that they won'tlike obviously he's not a big need.

(14:03):
But no, but it would havebeen great having him introduced the new
cap in the end. That wouldhave had a lot more weight to it
than just this random dude that wedon't really know, especially considering their past
during Civil War and things like that. Yeah, yeah, I think that
that could have had just so muchmore bitter meaning behind it. But having

(14:24):
ROADI there was cool, Like,I don't need every episode to be like
full of cameos, but the ROADIone was a surprise, But it didn't
feel like, oh, here's yourcameo, guys, like you know,
some other cameos having the past.It felt very natural, like, of
course he's going to be there.Well, Rody and Falcon and a few
others fall in the Marvel trope,which is also a bigger cinematic trope of

(14:50):
the Black Best Friend, and it'snice to see those two characters without their
like so called hero to follow.They're not in this. They are not
sidekicks, right, They're They're completelyon their own. This is new territory

(15:13):
for the two of them, andseeing them together it doesn't just like have
a nice little nod to the largeruniverse, but it has other implications and
you know, deeper subtext. Wellyeah, and speaking of subtexts, I
mean, I'm sure you guys gotinto but it definitely feels like a big

(15:35):
part of this show is going tobe racial themes um, you know things
like that, real real world issues. So you know Marvel Fanfare Lately or
Marvel fair Lately is not has justlike fun and you know, popcorn cheesy

(15:56):
and more like tackling social things likeyou know, then's illness and racial dynamics
and a lot of real real things. So yeah, that was one of
the biggest things that Anthony Mackie touchedon at the very beginning when they showed
that they were doing this this show. When they announced it, they were

(16:18):
like, absolutely, we're going totouch on racial aspects of this of this
country, Like you can't have ablack Captain America and ignore the fact that
he's black. So you know,there's not much that I can really speak

(16:40):
to it. I am going todiscuss it with a couple of my black
friends and see how they perceived it. But it does feel like that conversation
with the bank and the loan wouldhave turned out differently had he been white.
Again, going to discuss it withactual black people instead of our panel

(17:03):
of three white people here, right, Yeah, it also sounds like they're
going to touch on PTSD issues aswell as it pertains to Bucky there's a
couple of things that we see fromhim. You know, there's the obvious
low hanging fruit of like the therapysessions right are are dealing with with his
PTSD, but there's also some smallstuff like him sleeping on the floor in

(17:23):
his apartment. Um, you knowit's yes, it's a call back to
the Winter Soldier when when Cap andSam are talking about how Cap can't sleep
and things like that, but it'sreally about the why why can't they sleep,
and it's it has to do withtheir experiences being these these military weapons,

(17:44):
so to speak, and what Buckyhas been through. So I thought
those were some interesting notes that thatthey're going to build on. Yeah,
I mean PTSD has been a themein the Marvel universe for you know ever
so well really since Sireman three,I think was the first one to really
touch on it. So that's notnew territory form of tread. But yeah,
it's it's good to see that they'redealing with it a more in a
more grounded way than Ironman three wasa little all over the place with it.

(18:08):
So it's absolutely important for them totouch on this if they ever want
Bucky to be seen as more ofa hero, and you don't really get
that option in a two hour popcornfilm, but this really expands it.
And between you know, one avision where her depression comes straight from grief

(18:36):
and not really I guess huge eventswhere she's done like terrible things until you
know now and then Bucky, Likeboth of them are experiencing depression in completely
different ways, and I can sympathizewith both of them. Like the sleeping

(18:56):
on the floor thing was such asmall, innocuous detail that most people may
not even notice, but I didbecause my worst I have slept in weird
places, and you know, youjust it happens when you're just looking for
an iota of peace, and whenyou're constantly in your head telling yourself that

(19:21):
you're the worst and you don't deserveanything, then it's it's definitely difficult to
find that piece long enough to fallasleep. Bucky's story definitely seems to be
pretty hardcore that they're not really shyingaway from it. They're steering right into
it in the first episode, andI know we're kind of bouncing around a

(19:45):
little bit, but you know,I wasn't I wasn't sure how they were
going to handle Bucky. Part ofme thought that they were going to gloss
over it for the most part andkind of handle it like Iron Man three,
where yeah, he's got some issues, but he's a hero and it's
clear that he's going to be strugglingwith this stuff for a long time.
I thought it was smart that theycame up with a way for him to

(20:07):
be pardoned after the events of Endgames, so at least we don't have to
worry about him like constantly being onthe run, because I think that could
have gotten old really quickly. SoI thought that was a really smart decision.
Yeah, I've been talking a lot, so Okay, it's new for
me. I don't know what todo. Well, so then we I

(20:30):
mean, we could talk a bitabout that that big reveal for him at
the at the end of the episodewhere we find out that you know,
this old man that he's befriended andhe you know, he eats you know
it, goes out and eats withand stuff. The whole time, I'm
thinking to myself, like, it'sbecause Bucky is one hundred years old,
and so he's trying to find peoplethat are more connected to the past where
he understands things a little bit betterand he can relate to those those time

(20:53):
periods. I did not see itcoming that this was going to be like
the father or grandfather kind of Imissed. I think it was father of
someone that Bucky straight up murdered.Really, you didn't see that. I
didn't see it coming. I reallydid. I didn't. I was thinking
I didn't either, Honestly. Isaw I thought maybe he was going to
be like somebody that he was inthe war with. Yes, yeah,

(21:15):
exactly, one of the Helen commandosor something like that. But yeah,
I mean it ended up being somethinga little different. So no, man.
As soon as I saw this guy, I was like, oh,
I bet that's the dude's damn.I didn't even make the connection. And
it's like it's so much darker becausenot only did Bucky kill this kid or
this guy I guess he was probablya young adult, but like he wasn't

(21:37):
connected to like the mission, soto speak, at all. He was
just wrong place, wrong time,and saw it and so Bucky killed him.
It's like that makes it even worse, Yeah, because well you know
that Bucky's gonna have to you knowwhat a part of Amend's is that you
admit the wrongdoing. So you knowthat Bucky is going to have to come
clean on that, and that's veryuncomfortable. You know, you're dealing with

(21:59):
this sweet old man who lost hisson. Uh. Yeah, it's definitely
gonna be something that's gonna be avery serious scene. Yeah. It was
intense, and I mean, Sebastianstand I thought did a great job in
this episode. It's it's not aneasy role to play, in my opinion,
and it's weird seeing him talk somuch. That is very true,

(22:22):
Like, so far, we haven'treally seen Bucky have that much to say.
That's fair. Yeah, I meanI like it. He's great,
um, you know, and I'mintrigued by his story and seeing where it
goes. So you know, I'vealways been a Cap fan. I've said
it on the show a lot,and Bucky in the comics is pretty much
his best friend, so um,you know, and he has his own

(22:45):
messed up stuff to deal with andso getting to see him deal with that
is pretty cool. I'll say thatthe biggest surprise for me of this episode
was how much I miss Cap andit's it was I was actually emotional about
it because you know, there's seeingSam talking about Captain America and talking to

(23:06):
Roadie in front of like what mightas well be CAP's gravestone, I mean,
you know, and seeing the bigreveal at the end just made me
angry. And it's designed to right, like this is all designed to do
these things. But yeah, thatwas super I thought I was over it,
but I'm not over it. Itsays still fresh, how dare you
marvel? But I truly appreciate thatthey're acknowledging the giant hole that Chris Evans

(23:33):
is left instead of just pretending thatit's not there. Having a scene start
with them in the the Captain AmericaMuseum or place in the Smithsonian from Winter

(23:55):
Soldier Is. It's pretty important.And all the stuff in the background was
really fun to see. They hada lot of stuff from the other films
they had in game. They talkedabout people coming back from being in the
Blip, and they had some informationon Bucky in there, which I thought

(24:18):
was interesting since he's just like aliveand wandering around the world. But yeah,
I like that Sam is not reallycomfortable with the idea of taking over
as Captain America. It doesn't feellike it's his Shield. Right, it
doesn't feel like it's his mantle becausebecause of who Cap was and what he's
leaving behind. I thought they dida really good job with that. CAP's

(24:41):
arc in the MCU is actually alot more complicated than most of the other
characters. I mean, Tony getsa really incredible arc too. I mean
it's the two of them, really, right, It's their story at the
end of the day, the InfinitySaga and you know Cap for me,
you know, he he just ratcheshis you know, things up for me,
and in the Winter Soldier, andthen I've got issues with some of

(25:02):
his decisions in Civil War, andthen he comes back in you know,
Infinity War and Endgame, and it'sjust it's a really great character story for
him, and it's it is definitelygonna be hard to fill that void.
See, I've I've heard people talkabout why Falcon refused the Shield, and
I feel like it's not fully thathe just doesn't feel like that he's earned

(25:25):
that mantle. I feel like someof it comes from the fact that,
like he's in this is objectively likeassuming that things are happening in their world
as they are in our world.That he's just like not wanting to wear
the emblem of a country that treatsblack people in that way. And you
know, I feel since I feellike that's going to be such a big
theme based on this first episode,I think that that's a really big part

(25:48):
of it too, that he's notcomfortable wearing the emblems of this country that
you know, let's these terrible thingshappen to people that don't deserve it.
So I think that that's only partof the story, is that he doesn't
feel like he's living up the CAP'slegacy. I think it's a really good
point. I think the end ofthe episode solidifies that because the whole speech
that what's his name is making beforethe big reveal is that our Cap became

(26:15):
an international symbol. He became ahero for the world, and that was
a problem for people here in theStates that Captain America somehow served all of
humanity was a bad thing, right, And that leads into why you know
it would be problematic for Sam becauseat the end of the day, Sam

(26:36):
is a heroic person. He wantsto do good, he wants to do
the right thing, and the Avengersare designed to help humanity, not help
a country, right, That's whatlike the whole point of Civil Wars,
that they don't have jurisdiction. It'severywhere they go, where they want to
go to save who they think,you know, they should be saving.
Sam's no different than that, youknow, even if he wasn't a key

(26:56):
part of those conversations at the time. But this, you know, the
US agent or whatever they're going tocall, you know, they're calling him
he isn't the hero for the world. And that is a really telling point
that they're trying to make. Andyou know, I think that's that part
bothers me, probably even more thanthem putting somebody else in the suit,

(27:18):
is that they're trying to redefine whatit represents. Right. I agree same
here. So to your point,Derek, earlier you talked about that first
scene and that you weren't really sureof the point of that first scene that
with the big fight scene, likeif it was if it was something that's
going to tie into the greater orif it's just like an action scene to
start the movie. Yeah, thesoldier they were trying to rescue, like

(27:44):
it seemed like he would be important. Well, that really helps introduce waking
torres Yeah, I mean, Ithink I do think there's more to it
than that, but I do thinkTorres is involved. So this series,
at least at this point, isyou know, the government getting out the
old Captain America and bringing in theirCaptain America. And I think that the

(28:06):
whole point of Sam being sent onthis off the book's mission was to make
him disappear so that they can replacehim with Torres, who in the comic
book becomes the Falcons the Falcon,but then they'll have their own government Falcon
also, and remember Torres wanted tolike fiddle with his red Wing or whatever
he was working on. Also,I feel like that's going to be like

(28:30):
a big part of this is thatthey're trying to get rid of Falcon so
that they can bring in their ownFalcon and they want their own like Avengers
team that they can control. Yeah, so I think that that's where that
ties in. So you thought hewas meant to die on that mission,
yes, I mean they're telling himthat they're sending him like Libyan airspace.

(28:52):
It was. There was a lotof things that happened there that are like,
Okay, I mean this is suspicious. Why would they have him be
doing this? Anyway, and thesignificance of this guy and that lines up
with you know, Hammer and theDark Avengers and you know, possible Thunderbolts
thing. So in the wider scopeof Marvel, it leads them to a

(29:18):
lot of really cool storylines. Inthe context of the show, it has
some serious implications that they want himto go on these incredibly dangerous missions by
himself, by himself, no backupwhatsoever. And um, you know,

(29:45):
just for lack of better terms,wing it. I said, for a
lack of it's fantastic, makes itall better. I love that. It's
a good point though, because youknow, it's it certainly feels better if
him being alone was done on purposeand they're not just ignoring all the other

(30:07):
heroes like the Dark World, butlike, yeah, where was Like Rody
Roadie's also in the military, Likethat's why we keep coming back to him,
That's why he was there, Likehe is a military guy. You
would think those two would be teamingup on a pretty regular basis, given
that they are both military men whofly around. You know, it's one
thing if like you know, Thor'sobviously not going to show up, but

(30:30):
you'd think war Machine would be around. Yeah. I mean, it's it's
an odd thing, and that's whatmaybe suspicious about, you know, maybe
what the government's motivation is. They'realready doing it with caps, so it's
not crazy to think they'd be doingit with the other Avengers too. That
leads me to believe that, Ireally it's not necessary to this story,

(30:53):
which is why I know they didn'tinclude it. But the last time we
really check in with Roady, hewas, you know, discharged from the
military by the Secretary of Defense himself, Ross right, he was court martialed.

(31:15):
So obviously he's been reinstated. He'sstill in his dress blues, looking
great. Uh, but I justkind of want that patched up. And
I'm sure they will in Armor Warsor iron Heart, but that's just something
that I want to know what happened. Like it is Ross gone because he

(31:37):
made a choice to um really fightagainst Captain America when he's trying to save
the world from Thanos or but likewhat happened to him, I don't think
he's gone. I think he's He'snot a Secretary of Defense, That's what
I meant. I'm misunderstand me.That's certainly possible because a lot of time

(32:01):
has passed, you know, it'sit's been five years too, so who
knows. And we don't really knowwhat happens to him in the Blip either,
so right, you know, hecould have been replaced because he wasn't
existing at the time, you know, for all we know, or he
could just be working for Hammer orsomething. I mean, I love don
Cheetle a lot, and so I'mreally excited for Armor Wars and I just

(32:22):
want to like get to that showtoo, Like there's lots of other good
stuff happening, but like that one'sreally caught my attention. So seeing him
show up in this, I waslike, oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah, And I think that theremight be some tie into Armor Wars with
this, like you might show upin the last episode and there'll be a
teaser for that or something, becausewhy, I mean, I don't think

(32:43):
it's necessary, but if you're usinghim, you might as well like use
it as a tease or something else. That's what they do in every show
so or in every movie, Ishould say. And they also didn't want
division, and for me, like, it's okay if there's gonna actually be
payoff for it, right, Soyou've got done Cheetle showing up once or
twice in this for these fun littleteasers. But he's getting his own show,
so like it's helping me kind ofget excited for that. I'm fine

(33:07):
with it for sure. Yeah,just don't tease me for stuff you're never
gonna do. So the flag Smashers, Yes, what are your guys thoughts
on the flag Smashers? I reallylike the change that they made. So
the flag Smashers, it was justone guy. It was a reaction to

(33:29):
Stark, you know, being indirectlyresponsible for his dad dying, and his
whole goal was to go around theworld and get rid of all country boundaries
kind of things. Basically, hewas taking the song Imagine a little too
literally and in here it's kind ofa don't I don't want to say terrorists

(34:01):
and I don't want to say anarchistsjust yet because we don't know enough about
them. But they're they're definitely extremists. They're dangerous activists, and they are
using some the augmented reality technology thatthey're using to meet up is pretty incredible

(34:23):
because that's what activists are doing now. Like you go around with an augmented
reality app and you see that peoplehave you know, fucked up the BP
logos and things of that nature.So I thought it was a unique take

(34:43):
on kind of a lay mass character. Well, I like how they tied
it into the blip, the ideathat these guys kind of came around because
during the blip there weren't really anyborders, all of the countries of the
world kind of came together because theydidn't have a choice. They had to
share resources, they had to shareknowledge, and they had to work together
to keep everybody alive. And nowthat the blip is over and everybody's back,

(35:06):
and I have a couple of thingsI do want to say about that.
You know, the borders are backup, right, and even you
know, no more so than atthe tail end of the episode with the
reveal of the new cap. Rightis the idea of like we're gonna go
back to the way things were before, but like even more ridiculous, and
you know, so it's an interestingmotivation. It really is for the blip,

(35:31):
though, I just I do kindof want to say I do have
a bit of an issue with howlike normal everything looks already. So the
blip lasted five years and then ingame we see things are kind of shitty,
like things are not really in goodshape. There's lots of makeshift stuff
that's been built in different areas andnow, like in wand Division, it

(35:52):
was a small talent, so Ikind of let it go. But here,
like we see a lot of stuff, everything seems perfectly fine, Like
the blip never actually happened, andit's become a social thing that's used in
the bank scene. But other thanthat, there's like no physical lasting effects.
I find that odd. I mean, I don't know. I guess

(36:16):
that didn't really bother me. It'spossible that we just haven't seen it yet,
like's not important enough to the plotto really, you know, show
them building houses or something. Imean, I don't know, I mean,
it's too expected to see. It'spossible that what we saw in Wanda
vision with the with how Weird Jerseylooked like that could have been a direct

(36:43):
result of the blip how Weird whatlooked before Wanda got there and changed west
view. It was kind of rundown and people were struggling, And we
don't know if that was just youknow, that's this town, because we
do know that town. There areplaces out there that struggle constantly, and

(37:07):
we know why a lot of thetime, or could this place have been
affected by the loss of so manypeople during the blip that everything just came
to a close. So, yes, they're still figuring it out. And
they played it for laughs in SpiderMan Far from Home, and they played

(37:27):
it for tears during the hospital scenein WandaVision. So I think that it'll
be quite some time before we aredone saying the effects. But at this
time it's just not as you know, prevalent to Sam and Bucky. Yeah,

(37:51):
I get it. Let's let's whatelse you guys want to talk about.
We could talk about the the Weget to see a lot of Sam's
background. You know, he's fromLouisiana. His parents were fisher people.
You know, they were seafaring.They they caught stuff and they sold stuff.

(38:15):
And his sister lost everyone during theblip and had to see her parents
pass away while Sam was off doingAvenger stuff and Air Force stuff. And
you know, while she it wasa good relationship. While she doesn't fault

(38:36):
her brother for going off on hisown, she also is like, you
don't know my situation. So Iliked that they get a family relationship because
I think that it brings people closerto the characters. Yeah, that was

(38:57):
some good scenes with the boat.You know, I won't sell the boat,
and she was already you know,convinced that she needed to sell the
boat, and you know it didwhen that all that whole scene started,
you know, I was like,I mean I assumed the Avengers were getting
like six figure salaries at least fromthe government or Tony Stark or somebody.
But yeah, it turns out theydon't make really much money or have any

(39:22):
you pull with that other than likesocial media. I guess that was very
weird and a little grounding for thecharacters. You know, you see like
actors and TV shows that you assumetheir millionaires and really they're probably not that
much better off. Ef fact,I think there was an interview with Sebastian
stand where he said that during CaptainAmerica first Avenger, he was like living

(39:43):
in his car or something like thatA lot of the times for first roles.
Yeah, so you know, it'syeah, it is a little grounding
to go, Okay, well,I guess these guys aren't all Tony Stark
with a bunch of money. Hissuit anywhears is probably worth you know,
a crazy amount of money. Um, but it's it's his tool for his

(40:07):
job. So right, a lotof it raises, you know, questions
of like you know, when peoplecame back from the blip where they're like
bank accounts reinstated, right, likeyou know, it clearly wasn't frozen or
anything. It was just kept running, just kept running like that. But
the person never existed, so thereshould like how does you know what I

(40:28):
mean? Like, so there's alot of logistical stuff that I'm not sure
how that quiet works out. Andyou would think that like if she had
this this fishing business during the blip, when the blip was over, she
would still, you would think,now have twice as many customers available to
her, give or take. Soyou would think that she would be thriving
at this point because everybody who cameback needs to find a job. Now
she's already got a business, butshe's also an increased a man that she

(40:52):
might not you know, be ableto fill that demand. Very true,
but again, like you'd think she'dbe selling out on a regular basis at
least, or like you're trying tofind way to expand rather than to sell
off assets. So I think theblip is a lot more complicated that they're
giving it time. You know,they're using it for certain narrative points,
but I think for me, itraises a lot more questions. Sure actually

(41:15):
answer, I mean, I agree, but also like I don't really need
to see like people's bank accounts beingfrozen and things like that in my Marvel
shows. No, No, butI mean there's there's there's ways to have
lines that say that. And thenagain like just the way her the businesses
are portrayed, because i mean,you're talking about half the population showing back
up none of them have jobs,right, so like how are people finding

(41:37):
work? And you know why isn'tlike half the world unemployed at this point
or you know whatever the situation.Maybe you'd think that this would be like
an like a massive epidemic. Yeah, and it might be, and they're
just not like making it a pointto show it on the show maybe,
but they're just showing what whatever appliesto you know, the to here in

(42:00):
this case, I guess. Yeah, But that's I'm glad they did address
it because I'm sure everybody was thinking, well, I thought the Avengers made
money and then they addressed it inthe bank scene that they aren't really making
that much money, and you know, he's not treated very well in the
bank. The guy is like thedouchiest villain of the Marvel universe. Basically
like worse than Hayward and Wanda Vision. I still hate Hayward more. I

(42:22):
don't know, man, this guywas pretty big, like he just was
not good at picking up social cues, I guess, But I don't know
if it has anything to do withrace here. But I've been told many
times, and I've observed it formyself that you know, white people will

(42:43):
try to co opt on black people'sfame and then go ahead and use it
against them or not help them out. And you know, it just this
situation may not have been completely aboutrace, but it didn't help the situation
either. This guy wants selfies andhe wants poses, and you know,

(43:08):
I'm sure he would have gone onand requested more, but he only wants
to take from Falcon instead of givinganything back. Yeah, and Ryan,
to your your point by Avenger isgetting paid and stuff. I think like
the only thing they got was theirroom and board was basically paid for if

(43:30):
they stayed at the Avengers HQ upin New York, right, But that's
not really you know, we didn'treally know that that was the thing until
until this. So I just assumedthat, you know, Cap had his
military pension for you know, seventyyears or whatever that he was frozen or
sixty years, however long it was. But you know, so that he

(43:50):
would be pretty well off and likeall these people would probably getting military money
or something like that. But yeah, that's not the case. Yeah.
I assumed that Falcon was getting paidfor that mission that we saw him do
at the beginning of the episode,but for some reason that doesn't count or
something like that when they're at thebank. So like I get, you
know, the point of the bankscene is really good, and I like

(44:14):
the way it's written. I thinkthere's just a couple of things that are
confusing right now about some of theconsistencies in the universe. Yeah, what
else, what else? What else? We've covered a lot of grounds.
So the flag smasher dude, likethe big dude that you see, super

(44:37):
strong, obviously not like human strength. And then when you watch the credits.
I brought this up earlier a littlebit, but we didn't really talk
about it. In the credits,there's a little like newspaper clip or something
that says the Power Broker is alwayswatching or something along those lines. And
if you're not familiar, the Powerbrokerin the comic book was a like crazy
scientist that essentially experiment and on peopleand gave him super strength. I think

(45:01):
it was just strength, really,He didn't give them like all kinds of
powers, and then it got himaddicted to drugs and told him the drugs
were to manage their powers, andso it kept them basically working for him.
But I think that that's problem.That's likely where he's working. This
person is working with the Flag Smashersand giving some of them strength. There's

(45:22):
the woman that we've seen in thetrailers that's also super strong, so it's
clearly not just this one guy.Yeah, she's the leader of the Flag
Smashers. She's the gender swapped versionof Flag Smasher. So I'm curious,
befo we actually get to see thePower Broker in the show, and if

(45:43):
we do, who, like whowill be because that's a that's a role
that could definitely be coming back inthe future. You know, the Powerbroker
in the comics like supplies henchmen toa lot of people in the Marvel universe.
Yea, so yeah, and thisguy like to to let people know
who maybe aren't super familiar. He'sgoing to be more like the Tinker was

(46:08):
in um in Homecoming. You know, he's he's definitely a villain, but
he works to produce other villains.He helps other villains. He's not,
you know, the big bad thatthey take down. So my thought was
more like the guy in Daredevil stiltMan or yea guy that was making the

(46:30):
costumes. I don't know why that'sthe guy, but he was great.
But I mean he was I meanin the comics he was a villain and
he was making suits for Kingpin,you know in the show and spoiler alert,
I guess. But for a canceledshow, right, it's over.
I'm sorry, Right. I thinkthat's a role that could be really cool

(46:51):
in the in the upcoming Marvel universe, the powerbroker. So I'm hoping they
do something cool with that and getsomebody that's worth it, you know,
that's worth investing in a little bit. So we'll see. But we haven't
really talked about the casting or likewho or how we felt about the guy
at the end the big reveal.Right, so we have a new cap.

(47:13):
We have a new cap, andthe suit slightly it's a it's a
different suit. Same suit is actuallypretty cool. It's well designed. I
don't really care for it. WellI do. I think it's very cool
suit. So I like the shield. It's the same shield that Falcon had
at the end of the endgame.So that's that's the joke. Yeah,
it's hilarious. Yeah. I don'thave strong feelings about the actor either way,

(47:35):
because he didn't even have an opportunityto speak. He literally waves and
winks. He is Kurt Russell andGoldie hans Child, which for me is
already like you know, I'm I'mexcited to see what he's gonna do.
And if you look at pictures ofhim, I have no idea. I
had no idea that it was him, but then I went and did some
research and you can see both oftheir influence in the way he looks u

(47:58):
It definitely explains the JO line.But what's funny is, like the way
the suit was designed. The suitwas designed one way, but the helmet
specifically was designed to be ill fittingand like make him look like he has
a scrunched up face and it doesn'tfit him quite right, so that everyone's
like, who is this guy?He kind of looks like a muppet?
Yeah, exactly, and a thingnot like they don't realize that that it's

(48:23):
designed this way, Like, Yeah, the whole point is that they were
not working on this for years andyears and years. They were not working
with the guy to make it asuseful or you know, they're not trying
to outfit a soldier. They're tryingto sell propaganda. They're trying to show

(48:46):
the rest of the world that theyhave a superpower that belongs just to America.
It's exactly what points just a coupleof episodes ago when we were talking
Watchman what they were doing with DoctorManhattan. You know, this guy works

(49:08):
for us, not you. Wehave this superpower and you don't. So
it like they they hurried everything upand it's totally within the story for it
to look like it it was somethingoff the rack, right, I'm moornamental

(49:30):
in terms of like the costume designfor the show. It was designed to
be ill fitting, so that wewere looking at it and going, O,
who is this guy taking Captain America'smantle, and the same thing with
his acting, like his oh quickwave to the crowd and wink at the
camera, like spiking the lens anddoing that. It's to show that he's

(49:51):
a little smarmy and that he's kindof a a symbol in a bad way
or something. He's a Miss Universecontestant where it's all just fake and you
say the right things and people areon your side. And yeah, yeah
it was good. I mean allall took was this like quick shot of

(50:12):
him and everybody hates him. Yeah, just wanted Yeah, they nailed it.
Yeah, I don't think that jobwas particularly difficult given how much people
love Chris Evans cap, how muchpeople love Anthony Mackie's Falcon, you know,
and everything that you know, Falcongoes through giving up the shield,
and then they basically lied to himabout it. Like, I don't really

(50:34):
think it was a hard task forus to dislike whoever was going to be
well, no, but I meanthe guy did a good job. Like
it was. It was sure.Yeah, you know, he has literally
no lines and just maybe two minuteson camera and the most punchable face in
the Marvel University. That's still Hayward, I don't know. This guy's is

(51:00):
very punchable, Z. I guessfor me, I could have been anybody
in the mask, you know,I don't think it would have really made
a difference. I think you canhave put just about anybody there, as
long as it was somebody we didn'talready know. In the m CEO,
you know, somebody knew, butHaywards, he had no lines. So
yeah, you're right. But I'msure once we actually get to see the

(51:22):
actor act and do something, thenyeah, it'll be a little different.
But yeah, this episode where youget to see him for two seconds,
yes, I guess it could havebeen anybody beyond him. That's what we're
talking about, though. I mean, I'm not speaking to the acting.
I haven't seen. So if youguys think that he has powers or no,
I think he probably has some superstrength, maybe not to the extent
that Cap had, but he mightnot have anything right now. It could

(51:44):
be some situation kind of like Abominationwhere we see him get stuff later on.
It seems likely because of the PowerBroker reference in the comics. He
got his he got super strength fromthe Power Broker, right, So I'm
I'm guessing that's the route they're goingto go with it. Whether he has
that now or not, I guesswe don't know, But I would think

(52:06):
that the government would have wanted himto be superpowered already, to be able
to do more or less what Capcould physically do. And since we're going
to have both Sam and Bucky goingafter him at some point, you know,
the guy's got to be able toyou know, to hold his own
to some extent. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's true. But maybe
they're just like gearing it up rightnow and he doesn't actually have the powers

(52:29):
yet, but trying to be animage story wise. I see exactly where
you're coming from, Derek, ButI think that it's also something cinematically that
they just want on camera. Shouldbe a way to introduce the power broker,
have him work for the government andalso be doing all this rogue stuff
on the side, you know,money for experimentation, and they might you

(52:52):
know, do it more in flashbacktoo, so that technically both are correct.
There you go, That would thatwould be the way they would do.
Right. People are going to hatethis guy though, if he's like
the comics, he's like a superright wing conservative Christian, Like, yeah,
there's gonna be a whole demographic ofthe country, probably very much a

(53:13):
crossover with most of the Marvel demographicthat will hate, hate, hate everything
about this person. Well, maybethey can finally stop using the Punisher's logo
then, I mean maybe, probablynot though, because a skull is cool,
um before we stop, Like,I really thought that Bucky's date was

(53:36):
adorable. It was small, andyou know, they say that dating is
a good way to get yourself backout there just in the world, not
necessarily of course, back in thedating pool, but it's a nice way
to connect with people. And hisdate was adorable, So I great,

(53:59):
I felt, because he just ranout on her and then you'd never find
out exactly what happened with that.It was cute. Also, the old
dude was his wingman big time,Like yeah, it's great. Yeah,
I love that. And I thinkit's it's key that we get these moments
for Bucky because, like, likewe mentioned earlier, we don't know him
very well, right, right,people know the character from the comics and

(54:20):
he looks super cool with the maskand the silver arm and winter Soldier,
but we barely know this character,and so we know him a little bit
as Bucky from the first Captain Americamovie, but beyond that, yeah,
there's not been a lot of characterdevelopment other than like one post credit scene
and some random fight scenes, andso like we got we got more character
development for him in this episode thanwe have for the rest of the time

(54:43):
he was in the MCU, youknow. And I think it's really important
that we see these these vulnerable moments, you know, when he's talking to
the therapist and we see you know, they loved that scene. By the
way. A lot of people arecomplaining about like the super close ups,
but I mean it did him.Like the cinematography what it was meant to
do. It's meant to make youfeel like claustrophobic and like echo what Bucky's

(55:06):
feeling. And I'm sure as thetherapy goes on, it will be zoomed
out a little more every time ashe gets better. Exactly, the shots
don't have to be as tension inducing, right, And the therapist was wonderful.
I would consider going to the therapistif I had one like that.
That would just be like, stopyour bullshit and this is what's going to

(55:28):
happen. Oh don't right, don'tdon't do the writing thing. Yeah,
exactly. It was great. Itis incredibly distracting. As someone who goes
to therapy pretty regularly for the lastlike five years, I get why they
have to do it so then youknow they remember you next time, but
it is distracting. Well, butshe's doing it for a different reason,

(55:52):
right, She's basically all right,I guess I'm going to have to report
that you're not cooperating, right,Like that's her kind of a little nudge.
Well, that's what she's playing at, Like, yeah, yeah,
and it works. It works reallywell. Their dynamic was good, and
I like that she has like amilitary background because it means that she really
does understand, at least to someextent, what he's seen. You know,

(56:13):
obviously nobody has literally been through whathe has because it's such a weird
situation. But yeah, it's muchbetter than having a complete civilian try and
psychoanalyze him. And you know,if you've watched the trailers leading up to
the show, then you know thatthere's going to be a couple's counseling session
with Sam and Bucky excited. Yeah, I mean just that little hint was

(56:35):
enough to make me very happy,and I'm looking forward to that dynamic.
How do you guys think they're goingto bring them together? Is it going
to be like something with Zemo thatbrings them together or what they do.
Mention that Bucky's been ignoring Sam's texts. Part of me thinks something gets Bucky
to text him. Something happens.Maybe it's seeing this new cap on TV

(56:57):
gets him to text Bucky or yeah, but I think that's what happens.
I think Bucky reaches out. Um, he doesn't want to. It'll be
very reluctant, right, but Ithink he finally doesn't and I'll probably be
one of those scenes where like themessage has been typed and he can't get
himself depressed said, and he eventuallydoes like something kind of like that.
Yeah, yeah, Oh, whatepisode do you guys think will reveal,

(57:22):
uh, that Bucky killed that guy'sson. It's gonna be like four or
five probably it's gonna be towards theend, not six. I think that's
gonna be like his completion of histherapy, Like not, your therapy is
never complete, but you know thatthat therapy arc will be complete. That
will be the crown jewel at theend. And it's gonna be terrible and

(57:43):
it's gonna make us all sad.But I think episode five is pretty likely.
What if very episode nine, youknow Game of Thrones kind of thing.
What if the old guy dies it'slike in a in a Flagsmasters attack
and Bucky doesn't get to make thatamends could like I'll so throw us completely
off, and he inadvertently finds outand like the next episode and Bucky has

(58:07):
to, you know, not justdefend why he didn't say anything, but
also defend his relationship. Is kindof like lies of omission this whole time.
They could do that, I feellike that would not be as impactful
as Bucky like making the decision thatthis is the time, you know what
I mean, Like in terms ofcharacter development, I would rather they go

(58:29):
with the route where he just likedecides this is time to do it.
I like the idea of him decidingto go and doing it and then maybe
finding the guy dead heartbreaking, andthen maybe he has to like admit it
to the girl he went on thedate from right because it's really the only
other person that he knows and maybethat's how they bond or something, or
he just has to carry that withhim now and that's like something that motivates

(58:50):
him. Definitely, I definitely Idon't see that story having a happy ending
now. I think that's okay.I don't think it would be right for
him to just get a completely onehundred percent happy ending, you know,
because he did some shit and youknow was it wasn't all his fault,
you know, but completely absolving himof all of that, I think would
just be shallow. M I agree, Yeah, he's definitely no more.

(59:15):
Like you know, at the end, Wanda was a villain at the end
of WandaVision, I mean, andthrough wand Division she was a villain um
and Bucky is not a villain,but he's done some really terrible things that
he and you know, this amendsis his ways of trying to make up
for it. And I like thatthat's the way they're going. Yeah.
I was just about to say theyhave like the opposite storyline and that's that's

(59:39):
okay. You know, the thingabout uh DC characters, we always say
that they're they're gods trying to behuman, and in this they're they're humans
trying to be better. I wouldn'tsay anybody is trying to be like God

(01:00:00):
per se. But they're trying tobe heroes. Most of them maybe not
want to, and a good chunkof them don't always succeed, including Wanda.
Like Bucky, you gotta think that, like, at this point,
he's not trying to be a hero. He's trying to absolve himself, and

(01:00:21):
I in his head, he's nevergoing to absolve himself, but at least
he can put a little bit ofgood back in the world. Yeah,
I don't know that Bucky's trying toabsolve himself. I think he's just trying
to to do what he can tofix what he can. I think that's
different, you know. I thinkhe knows what he did and he'll never

(01:00:43):
forgive himself for that, but hewants to do whatever he can to make
the best of that. Well,I haven't gone through a program where you
have to make amends to people,so I maybe misinformed, but I feel
like amends is a way of dealingwith the problem that you can move past
it and you know, so it'snot necessary. You're not fixing the problem,
but but you're able to move pastit to progress in your own life

(01:01:05):
and move forward in your own life. And I think Yeah, that's all
he's trying to do is be ableto like have a somewhat normal life and
get past the traumas that he's causedand he's had. And some of it's
also just admitting to himself, youknow, the reality of what happened.
You know, it doesn't it's notabsolving, it's it's admission, you know,

(01:01:27):
rather than burying it in denial,right, because denial is one of
like the stages, you know,and this is this is beyond that,
this is acknowledgement. Yeah, that'strue. I like that they're going that
route with it though, because youknow, it's it's it's a way to
relate it to real people. Inchat, they said it's that amends is

(01:01:49):
basically cleaning your side of the street, which is a good way of saying
it. Yeah, so that's good. Yeah, all right, well I
think on that note, that's probablya good spot to stop. Yeah.
Good. Yeah, all right.So next week we'll be taking on episode
two of The Falcon and the WinterSoldier on our normal time. You can
join us live Tuesday night at ninepm Eastern, or you can catch our

(01:02:09):
episode the following day Wednesday on yourpodcast app of choice. You can go
to screen dash Heroes dot com forall of the links to any podcast app
that you could possibly imagine where youcan stream it directly from Dorico Studios dot
com. You can follow us atScreen Heroes Pod on Twitter, Facebook,
and all the social media verses.Be sure to join our Facebook group,

(01:02:32):
the Screen Heroes Podcast Forum. Wedo polls, news memes, tournaments,
spoiler threads, lots of fun discussions, so join us. There sons so
many memes, all that good stuff. And hey, look, if you
listen and you have thoughts, ifyou have comments, if you have questions,
if it's questions about the content,questions for us, you can now
leave us a voicemail and it mightactually make the show. If you give

(01:02:55):
us a call at nine one threeeight nine zero, three thousand and seven,
you can leave us a voicemail withyour comments, questions, and we
will listen to it and as longas it's relevant and not inappropriate, then
we will probably get to it hereon the show and play the message on
the show. So it'd be sureto leave us a message to do that.

(01:03:16):
And because the number is three thousandand seven, there's got to be
a joke in there about like ILove you three thousand and seven or something
that's in there. I believe so, But I am Derek. You can
find me at the Star Trek Dudeon Twitter, ray where can people find
you? Matt, Syreen, Ryeand Ryan Buster props. All right,
we are to the Screen Heroes Podcast. Thank you for joining us. We

(01:03:37):
will catch you all next week