March 25, 2025 • 33 mins
Ben and Carl tackle the all-too-familiar challenge of creative burnout and share surprisingly effective ways to reignite that creative spark. When you're creatively stuck, listening to new music might be more valuable than trying to create. This episode is all about how rediscovering the joy of being a music fan first can lead to fresh inspiration, and they share their personal strategies for breaking out of creative ruts.
Discover:
LA Wildfire Relief:
Musicares - https://donor.musicares.org/page/lafirerelief
WAMTN - https://give.wearemovingtheneedle.org/campaign/654724/donate
Learn more about StudioLand - https://www.welcometostudioland.com/a/2147995182/bmyFf8p5
Download our free guide: "The Future-Proof Mixing Engineer: 8 Essential Skills for 2024 and Beyond" - https://mpe-ebook.benwallick.com/future-proof-mixing
Connect with us:
Secret Sonics - https://www.instagram.com/secretsonics
Ben - https://www.instagram.com/benwallickmusic/
Carl - https://www.instagram.com/carlbahner/
Learn more:
https://www.benwallick.com/
https://www.carlbahner.com/
This episode with edited by Gavi Kutliroff - https://www.instagram.com/pleasant_peasant_music/
Discover:
- Why "just create something" often fails as advice when you're uninspired
- The importance of continuing to discover new music throughout your career
- How to listen like a fan again, not just as a producer or engineer
- Breaking out of your musical comfort zone
- Ben and Carl's curated song recommendations
LA Wildfire Relief:
Musicares - https://donor.musicares.org/page/lafirerelief
WAMTN - https://give.wearemovingtheneedle.org/campaign/654724/donate
Learn more about StudioLand - https://www.welcometostudioland.com/a/2147995182/bmyFf8p5
Download our free guide: "The Future-Proof Mixing Engineer: 8 Essential Skills for 2024 and Beyond" - https://mpe-ebook.benwallick.com/future-proof-mixing
Connect with us:
Secret Sonics - https://www.instagram.com/secretsonics
Ben - https://www.instagram.com/benwallickmusic/
Carl - https://www.instagram.com/carlbahner/
Learn more:
https://www.benwallick.com/
https://www.carlbahner.com/
This episode with edited by Gavi Kutliroff - https://www.instagram.com/pleasant_peasant_music/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think I was describing like Valentine's Day not a
critical experience, But yeah, I mean, I don't. I mean,
is there a difference, Like do you not treat yourself
like it's Valentine's Day when you want to listen to
something critically anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
A little bit? Yeah you do.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I'm going to listen to some seal.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi. I'm Ben and I'm Carl, and you're listening to
Secret Sonics, honest conversations chock full of tactical advice to
help you build your dream career in music and audio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Whether it's skill development, mixing mindsets, personal branding, or work
life balance. We talk about ways to help set yourself
up for success in the ever changing music industry.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Let's get started.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hi, Ben, Hi Carl. I am glad to see you,
and I'm sorry I made you scramble because, as a
typical American, I kind of forgot that our daylight saving
time changes at a different time than other places and
the world doesn't revolve around us.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's that's exactly right, well said.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yes, so I get to scare you. I mean, like, hey,
I'm in the waiting room for Riverside. Let's do this
episode and you're like, I thought I had another hour,
but I'm glad it worked out.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, it totally worked out.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I matter.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's good. It means a goat home an hour earlier,
so that's good for me. Yeah, hey, Carl's good to
see you. Man, you too.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm very glad that we had that kind of lull
a couple months ago, and then we had like a
little micro lull after that. But I feel like we're
kind of back into like at general of things, and
I'm glad to see your face every week.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah. Well, you moved houses, I moved studios, and things
are starting to hit a rhythm, hit a routine. I'm
not that life ever fully hits a routine when you
have little kids and stuff, but you know, things are
stablish you know.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, they're getting they're getting routinier.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
They're getting routinier. I like that, not teenier, routinier. It's good, amazing. Well,
I thought I would tea up something. I don't know
if this is going to go well, but I'm gonna try.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
We'll find out.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I don't know. I've been feeling a little bit lack
of inspiration recently, and I want to get back into
inspired land, Like I want to be like, let's make
music today, let's try something new. And I've just been
sort of I've done so many things. Life is so tough.
I don't feel like doing anything. If I have free time,
(02:16):
I'm probably gonna just space out and doom scroll or
watch a YouTube video or whatever. Like where's the inspiration?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Man?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So I wanted to kind of like freestyle this and
talk about ways that we can get ourselves out of
a funk get into an inspired zone. So, like, how
do we find inspiration? Carl? If you're feeling like down
and out, what's your go to method for getting repped
up about music?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I have a fairly oversimplified answer for this. I feel
like for a very long time when I was not
inspired or I was just kind of like you know,
in a funk or you know, writer's block or producer's
block or whatever you want to label it, I used
to think, oh, well, if I just you know, challenge
myself to make something, I'm just going to make something.
(02:59):
It doesn't matter, you know, constraints. I'm just gonna go
be myself. It usually ends up kind of making things
worse in reality, ends up kind of like just continuing
that staring at a blank session kind of feeling, or
even worse, spending time on something just to like experiment
with it, and then you're like, wow, this really sucks,
(03:19):
and now I'm no closer to inspiration, and also I
feel bad about my skills. It doesn't happen all the time,
but I'm sure everybody listening has had that happen at
least once. And this is me personally, but it took
a long time for me to kind of realize that
when I need need inspiration, or when I'm feeling stuck
or I'm feeling like I've you know, plateaued or whatever,
(03:41):
I think my instinct is to try to create something
and try to create something new. But what I've found
is that for me, what actually inspires me is to
stop worrying about what I'm creating and just try to
take new things in. So that's when I try to
go into like a I don't even necessarily say like
deep listening mode, but just like I try to find
(04:03):
music I've never heard of and try to find styles
I don't know and just try to absorb it and
appreciate it, and not necessarily because I want to pick
it apart and learn to think about it and try
to make a new style of music. Like the end
goal is not for me to hear something new and
then like as an experiment to like shake things up,
try to make it myself. It's just purely to try
(04:24):
to find something I've never heard before that kind of sparks,
you know, that that little fire again. That is really
what got me into doing music in the first place.
You know, like you don't get into music because you've
created first, and then you discover that other people make music,
you know what I mean, Like you you're a listener first,
you're a fan first, and then you start to become
(04:45):
the creative and the technician and like all the different things.
So I found for myself, if I'm stuck and I
want to try to find inspiration, find something new, I
need to like really go back to the basics. And
for me, like I used to think that creating something
without any limitations was the basics, but I think I
have to go even further back to just listening. You know,
(05:07):
whether it's putting on the New Music Friday playlist that is,
you know, obviously gonna be songs I've probably never heard,
but also a lot of artists and a lot of
styles that I've never listened to before, or just I
will say, trying to do this at first, at least
through like a Spotify playlist, like something like an editorial
(05:28):
playlist I found helps me because you could also say, well,
what if I just, like, you know, scroll through Instagram
and look for artists, you know, like you can very
easily get pulled out of looking for cool music and
getting inspired by cool music and start going down a
rabbit hole of doom scrolling. So this is like trying
to keep myself. I'm kind of like forcing myself to
listen to new music and not allowing myself to get
(05:50):
distracted by the non music things that are on Instagram
or TikTok or YouTube. And it's just tried to pull
myself back to that kind of pure childlike state of
hearing something new for the first time and then when
it something grabs my attention and like my eyes light
up the same way that they lit up when I
was in my uncle's basement the very first time that
(06:12):
I heard Blood Sugar, Sex Magic. Like, I want to
try to have that kind of a feeling when I'm
thirty nine, when I'm forty, when I'm forty five, when
I'm fifty five, when I live to be the first
person to be one hundred and twenty years old, even
though I'm going to be like a useless vegetable that
just complains.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
About you never know, man, by then we may have
developed all kinds of crazy medicines.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, I'll still be there in my recliner chair complaining
about producers that use profile pictures of the back of
their head in front of a console. That'll be like
my stop telling your war story scramble. That'll be like
my equivalent of that. But yeah, that's what I try
to do. I just try it. I can't inspire myself,
you know. I think that's a very humbling thing that
(06:56):
I needed to come to terms with and I'm not
going to force in. I'm not going to create inspiration
for myself. I need to find it through somebody else's music.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, that was my hunch. Also, like my hunch is like, oh,
let's just make something even though that makes sense, that
will inspire you and you're like one thing we'll lead
to another. But it's hard to just do that if
you don't have anything. It's really like kind of jumping
into a cold body of water when you don't really
don't want to. It shouldn't be, but it is. And
then like, the reason why we got into this is
(07:27):
because we fell in love with something that was coming
out of a speaker. And yeah, finding new music is
I find it super inspiring and I need more of it,
and I need to find more of it.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
I'm gonna this might be a hot take, and I
might ruffle some feathers to listeners, and I apologize in advance.
I still love you. I think the saddest thing I
can hear from a producer or engineer is that they
don't listen to music. They only listen to this stuff
that they're working on. I think that to me, this
is again my hot take. You can disagree with me.
(07:59):
I still love you. But the way that I look
at it is if I ever get to that point,
and I've been at that point before, and if I
get to that point again, that I feel like that's
completely disconnected me from what got me into music in
the first place. You know, So if you have that
kind of experience, you know, if if you're somebody that
you know doesn't listen to new music, they just listen
(08:20):
to the stuff that they're working on. I think you'll
be able to kind of, I think, rediscover a little
bit of the childlike wonder if you go out of
your way to try to find some new new music.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, and new music for the record could be old music, right.
I was actually listening to an interesting interview with Rick Rubin,
and he's saying, like, most of what he listens to
now is like stuff that's really old he just hasn't
heard yet, like you know, sixties psychedelic or jazz or whatever.
But he's still listening to new music, right.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Like new to you? Is new to you is the
most important?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah. I think also it's like a thing like when
you hit your thirties or whatever. I don't know what
age it is that people just kind of stop listening
to stuff that's new. And like I'm just like realizing, like, oh, fuck,
so old, Like everything I love was made twenty years ago,
you know, like like what the fuck? How is this
like that? You know, the John Mayer record we were
talking about Continuum, Like that's like literally almost twenty years old.
That's crazy, that's insane. You know, that was new, that
(09:14):
was just new, you know, I was I was in college,
you know whatever. How is like in Rainbow's almost twenty
years old. That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I remember standing in line of buying that at Tower Records.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yes exactly, yeah, Tower Records when that existed back in
the good old days. But it's it's a problem. It's
very hard as life goes on you get older just
sort of be open minded enough to listen to new
music and to I think you're weird that you like
doing that, But I think most people it's a conscientious
effort if you want to listen to new stuff once
(09:42):
you hit a certain age.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, but I think like for the general population, like
I totally get it, you know what I mean. And
I think like maybe this, if you want to look
at it from a philosophical standpoint, you could say, oh,
you know, we listened to the music from our you know,
our formative years because we have all these like nostalgic
you know, memories associated with them, right. I like making
new memories. I like associating music and experiences with new
(10:08):
memories too. I don't want to just only have memories
from when I was in high school, you know what
I mean, especially in music, which is like what I
listened to and do like all day every day. That's
what drives me as a creative. But I'll say, like,
for example, I want I want to go back to
the whole like new to you. There are certain bands
that I've heard the names of a gazillion times that
just have never taken the chance to listen to them,
(10:29):
never just sat down and listened one. This was two
weeks ago now by the time of this episode comes out.
I think I talked in the previous episode about how
I recently got diagnosed with ADHD, which is no surprise
to literally anybody, but I started taking adderall for it,
and it's been so helpful and adding so much like
(10:49):
clarity to my day. It's been unreal. But the first
full day that I had it, I was also at
home with my daughter. That day was one of my
day's after in the week, so only you usually work
four days a week, and I remember I was hanging
out with my daughter, who's almost two, and I finally decided,
you know what, I have a couple students and some
(11:11):
friends that have worked with King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard,
and I've never listened to them. I'm gonna check them
out and I just once on Spotify hit Play, and
I have pretty much not stopped listening to them for
like a week and.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
A half because beat the name of that band.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You should absolutely Jack the Nerd and the got it.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
For anybody that's listening and you're like, if you're a
big I think they call them from Yeah, I think
they're giz Heeads. I think they call it. I'm super
new to this, don't haze me, but I think it's
super interesting because they put out I think like twenty
albums since twenty ten. Something crazy they did I think
five albums in twenty twenty two, like full length God,
(11:53):
and they just had this really like it's very experimental
and like every album is its own kind of like thing,
and they just like deep dive into like a particular
like style or concept and it's it's really really good.
And it's not just like experimental for experimental sake, because
I spent a lot of years in that world, like
doing like New York avant garde jazz stuff. This is
(12:14):
like really really fucking good. And I'm really kind of
mad at myself for taking so long to finally like
check them out because that's been really inspiring to me.
And that's a perfect example of, like I'm thirty nine
finding an artist that I now like, am really really
diving into and really loving. But I'm definitely past the
(12:38):
average age of when people stop seeking out new music.
And also some of the albums are from like twenty twelve,
twenty fourteen that I'm really getting into, so it's new
to me at you know, a later age. And also
it's just really good and really fun. And my oldest
daughter started like singing along some of the songs in
(12:59):
the car, which is really fun and weird. But that's
a perfect example of, you know, finding something that is,
you know, new to us, but not necessarily new new new.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So I want to ask you who were some artists
that you've known about or known of and everybody has
told you to check them out and you just never have.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Wow, you're really you know, asking me without any uh forethought.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Here to be fair, this was your idea, you idea
you brought.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I didn't tell you to ask no, wait wait wait.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Wait wait don't I'm just saying you. Before we hit record,
you were like, I've got a question. I want to
ask you, but I don't want to wait till we
hit record.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
And Okay, here's like a band, a band i've never like,
actually dug into, Like the Black Keys, I've heard, you know,
I've heard a lot of their songs, but i've I've
actually never really listened carefully to any of the records.
That's like a one example.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But you've heard some of their stuff, Like what about
Quorn that you've never knowingly heard?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Band that I've never knowingly heard. Man, there's probably so
many I don't know until recently, I would say, but
it's not actually true because I have heard some of it.
Like Tool, I had only listened to like a couple
of songs until I don't know a month ago, and
I listened to a few more songs because my friend
shared it with me. I haven't heard any songs. That's
really hard. That's a tough question. You know, obviously there
(14:19):
are there's probably hundreds of thousands or millions of songs there.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Okay, about this, let's specify the constraints of this question. Okay,
so it's an artist that maybe you've heard, I'll say
you've heard one song by them, you know, one song
or least like if they had like a big single,
but you don't know anything else about them, but you've
had friends that have specifically said, oh my god, you
need to check these guys out. All this stuff is
really good. Maybe even like oh that single like that
(14:43):
that's crap, Like you know, listen to their third album.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Ah, I feel like I have to go on Spotify now.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Okay, I can think of another one for me that
I need to do. This will probably be my next
homework assignment for myself. Fugazi is another one that, like
I've heard.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Isn't fugazi like a genre also, or it's a straight
up band.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It's a band. I think you're thinking, like shoegaze.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Oh yeah, Shoegaz.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
That's right, shoegaze hardcore like punk band that there's no
reason why I don't listen to them or know them
or love them, you know what I mean. Like from
what I've heard, they check all the boxes. But for
some reason, I think this is what happens to me
a lot. There will be somebody will tell me to
check out a band, and I'm just not in a
situation where I can physically listen to music. Like maybe
we're like at you know, at a restaurant, at a
(15:25):
bar or something or hanging out and they're telling me
and I just like can't pull my phone out and
start listening to a song. Or I'm in a situation
where I can just listen to anything in the world
and that band name just isn't the one that comes
to mind, and I just kind of forget that I
was supposed to listen to them. And then just like
right now is when Fugazi comes up in conversation, but
(15:47):
I can't just like stop and you know, interrupt, pull
it out, interrupt this podcast, and it's like going deep
dive on Fugazi and then like kick back into the podcast,
you know. So like I feel like that happens to me.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, a lot. Here's a perfect I just found one,
The tragically Hip. I don't know if you know about
the tragically Hip, but they're like the biggest Canadian rock
band of all time basically that nobody knows about in
America or other countries other than Canada. Like Rush, everybody
knows about Rush, right, but the tragically Hip stayed in Canada.
And my brother in law is a massive fan because
you know, my wife is Canadian. So this is like
(16:21):
I just never actually gave it more than like half
a listen, you know what I mean. So maybe it's
worth That would be a perfect example of something that
has come up a trillion times and I haven't actually
gotten into it, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay, well that'll be your drive home listening to music.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
The Tragically Hip. Let's put it on.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
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for recording. I appreciate what you bring to the table,
let alone pay their rates. You want to get paid
(16:57):
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(17:17):
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I want to make a distinction too, you know, when
we're talking about how we find inspiration, and I keep
on going back to listening to new music, whether that's
twenty twenty five new music or that's nineteen ninety seven,
but new to ben music as hard as it is,
(17:38):
if you can listen to it casually, like as a listener, cool,
You know. I usually play it on either my phone
speakers or like want to have a little like crappy
soundbar that I just play with through bluetooth because I
know it doesn't sound good, but like then I can.
It frustrates me to try to listen to it academically
and like pick things apart, so I can just I
give up and I just like listen as as a listener.
(18:00):
But I feel like, you know, don't get mad at
yourself if you can't just listen casually, because if you
are learning from it, if you are like, oh, I
really like this, I really like but that it's here,
I really don't like this, Like I say, that's still
kind of like that still will help you and I
still be interesting and inspiring because you're going to look
at a thing and get a little bit. But I
(18:21):
would just say, like, don't actively think, oh I need
to make this like a critical listening exercise. Like it
can just be on your phone. It can be in
the car, it can be on a little shitty bluetooth
speaker out in the yard, like I love doing it
while I'm mowing the lawn. You know, I have my
headphones on. I have a little, you know, crappy electric
mower so it's not super loud and just you know,
listen to listen to new stuff that because I'm like,
(18:43):
I'm not sitting in a perfectly acoustically treated room, you know,
with candles and like the late light stem. Like it's
not you know, like a I think I was describing
like Valentine's Day not a critical experience. But yeah, I
mean I don't. I'm it is is there a difference,
like do you not treat yourself like it's Valentine's Day
(19:03):
when you want to listen to something critically anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
A little bit you do.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I'm going to listen to some seal, But no, I
think like that's a good way to do it. It's
just like because when you grew up, when you first
discovered music that really grabbed your attention, it didn't grab
your attention because you knew a ton about music and
acoustics and you had it and you were like really
impressed by the smoothness of the guitar reverb tale, like
you heard it as a as a normal person, you know, yea,
(19:30):
So make sure make sure you're listening to music as
a normal person outside of your studio.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah. There also, there's just been so many, you know,
artists recommended on this podcast, and when I'm like mm
hm and no, obviously I haven't heard any any songs
by them because there's just so many artists and like
you can't know, you can't possibly know everything. There's so
much more to explore.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
You know. What would be fun actually for this episode
in the show notes, you and I should make a
playlist where we each maybe recommend five songs to each
other slash to the listener. So these are maybe a
total of like ten songs that we feel like if
you don't know them, you should. You should just hear
this song even just.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Does it have to be an obscure song, or can
it be like a popular song that you may just
made that someone else just might not have heard of.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
That's fine either way, Yeah, I mean I would I
would avoid if it's like so ridiculously popular that everybody yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Like no blinding lights, you know, no dua lipa yah,
I got it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
But I would argue if you wanted to do something
like Tommy Richmond or something that's like TikTok popular, but
nobody's ever like ninety nine point nine nine nine percent
of people I've never heard more than like a twelve
second clip of it. I'd allow you to do that,
but I don't pay you as a viral TikTok music person.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So you're actually gonna have to put that in your
list to share with me. So there you go, Okay,
got it. I think that's also like a good initiative also,
just to do with friends, just to continually share music
with other people. At the beginning of COVID, one of
my buddies made like a WhatsApp group where it's just
like an album a day and people would just share albums.
Everybody would just share an album. I mean, one person
would share an album. At the beginning of the day
and then people would have a chance to listen to it,
(21:07):
and like I did get exposed to some more new
music and it was fun and it was like a
chance to like do something while you were in isolation. Yeah,
that was a little bit out out there. The other
thing I was thinking about is that, like I have
like an old school receiver in my living room and speakers,
and I just need to like contact spray the thing
and get it working again because it's basically stopped working
(21:29):
and there's like been less music in my life because
of that. And I think keeping like a good place
to listen to music in your home is really fun.
Like then I got like an old Bluetooth sound thing
working and then stopped working because it was really old.
But like for a couple of days I had that
blasting and it was like just fun to listen to
music with the kids in the house. Yeah, because it
had been a while since, you know, everything's been so
crazy here, so I haven't had a chance to get
(21:51):
my life up and running properly. Now I don't have
a studio in the house also, so I don't have
speakers in the home, So I really need to get
the setup going because I think that would definitely inspire
and also lift the mood in the in the house.
So I gotta get back on it.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I agree. I'm gonna fight you for a second though,
mm hmm. I'm not saying that you're doing this. I
could see a lot of potential analogous situations, So like, oh,
I just see that, like one more plug it and
then I'll be I'll be done.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, I don't know. I'm not get.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
That new pre app, I'll you know that new that
new guitar pickup. So so I'm just saying, like, use
your fucking phone, bend, start today, don't wait till let's
till your thing works. Just yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
But it's just like this thing that I have been
like trying to I've been thinking about doing and not doing.
You know, like that thing that's on your to do list,
but it's so low down on your till the do
list that you just never get to it. It's that
And because I'm always listening to music in the studio
and I'm in the car and blah blah blah blah.
But what happened was I use the contact spray to
fix my bas amp because I had a little a
little jam session here, and then I sprayed it in
(22:51):
this Are twenty, which I mentioned at the beginning of
this podcast before we started recording. And now that I've
used the contact spray, I'm going to take it back
home and hopefully fix up them arrants, and then then
we'll have some nice tunes in the house. So one
thing leads to another, We're going back to that like yeah,
adhd episode of Time Management where the guy from Malcolm
in the Middle says, what does it look like I'm doing?
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Throw that back?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Does anybody remember that?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
And I do. It's so good, good old hal. So
I have I have an idea. This is like maybe like, uh,
let's try this for a couple episodes. I think this
would be good. I think for the next few episodes,
each of us should recommend five songs that the listener
should listen to. Okay, let's be proactive, not just for ourselves,
(23:38):
like we'll be giving each other new music to listen to,
but then also giving the listeners some stuff. And we
can make like a simple ten song playlist. Five songs
from me, five songs from you. Let's try to get
in the habit for ourselves of listening to more new music,
but also give the our loyal fan base, you wonderful
silly humanoids. Give you guys something to listen to as well.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay, let's start a community around listening to new music
and break out of old habits. Yeah, get inspired, Get inspired.
So here's what we're going to do, Ben.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
We are each going to list five songs that we
want to put on this week's playlist. And these are
songs that I think you should hear and that I
think the listeners should hear and be I want to
be very clear, I am not saying, hey, these are
the five songs that are going to inspire you to
become the most successful producer in the history of sound.
(24:29):
And also I'm not trying to make it seem like
you need to make these your favorite new bands, and
if you don't, I hate you. You know that that
is obviously not the keys. This is just like, here
are some interesting sounds, interesting approaches to music that you
may not have heard before, and if you did, maybe
it'll be something that'll re spark a deep dive of
(24:51):
your own. Okay, Okay, I'm going to start off. The
first one I'll do is that Tommy Richmond song Million
Dollar Baby VHS version, So this is that one that
was like big on TikTok for like the twelve seconds
of the of the song. But I think just sonically,
there's just something really interesting and I don't know it's
it's really it's a really interesting sonic landscape and super
catchy obviously, but I think there's just some like there's
(25:14):
a whole lot of I don't give a fuck energy
in the song, which I think is really I don't know,
I think that's that should be inspiring and nothing else.
And you don't have to like the song. You don't
have to listen to it more than once, but I think,
like give it a shot just to like see what
the vibe is and what they did to kind of
get that vibe across.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Sweet Okay, My first recommendation is going to be Tender
Defender from the new Wolfpack record featuring Theo Casman on vocals.
This song has been stuck in my head since the
record came out less than a week ago, so I've
been I've been totally jamming out to this and yeah,
former guests the show, Noah Mohlmberg mixed it and mastered it,
which just fun and I just like can't stop listen
(25:54):
to this song. It's so so catchy, it's so fun.
It's just like a great combination of like a melody
and funk. So yeah, that's my first recommendation.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Okay, my second song is going to be The zoo
Keeper's Boy by Me. So this is from two thousand
and five, but I think I first heard it in
maybe seven or eight, and it is just so weird
and it's like this beautiful combination of like odd phrases,
really jangly guitars, and just incredibly memorable vocal production. Like
(26:27):
it's just I think they're Swedish. It's weird, but like
in a really really good way, which obviously is my jam.
So I think you should check them out.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Okay, amazing, This just like came up for me, and
that's like a fun song for me to share. You
Only Live Once by the Strokes. If you haven't gotten
into the Strokes, I think this is a great song
to get you into the Strokes. It's not like the
first record where it's a little bit more low fi.
This is like high five production. I love the guitar parts.
They're so melodic and they rock really hard, and it's
just a really badass song.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So or I think, like, even if you have heard
The Strokes but you've only heard Night, you know this
will be Yes a good one. Reptility is really good too,
but I think is the same album or that's the
right one.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I think it's on their third record, Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
The next one. This is going to be Francis and
the Lights just for us. I first heard of Francis
and the Lights a couple of years ago, and it
is just I don't know a ton about them, but
I just know, like every time I hear some of
their songs, I'm just like in love with it. It's
like this combination of a modern minimalist Peter Gabriel kind
(27:30):
of thing. Like I don't know how to describe it.
It's almost like if Phil collins attempt to be catchy
was blended with Peter Gabriel's ability to make things catchy
but also not corny, you know what I mean. I
don't know how else to describe that.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I'm not sure I know what you mean, but I'm
excited to hear it. It's really just eighties throwback right here, but.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It doesn't feel ladies like it's a really good job
of like having that, but it doesn't having some like
some vintage feel a little bit, but almost feels like
vintage songwriting, but without it being on the nose, you know,
retro production. It's really good, really interesting.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Cool. I'm excited to check it out. I'm gonna go
old school with my next one, Carolina in my mind,
James Taylor, come on classic. It's just such a good
example of like folks singer songwriter in like the seventies.
Just a beautiful singing voice and production. So go check
that out. If you haven't listened to James Taylor yet,
get into James Taylor.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, that's a perfect one for me actually, because like obviously,
like I've known of James Taylor for a zillion years
and I probably listened to a whole bunch, but I've
never just sat down and thought to myself, I want
to listen to James Taylor right now. I just thought,
like what I grew up on, and so that's a
perfect thing for me to to check out. Cool. Yeah, Okay,
Empire of the Sun music on the Radio.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
This is from the new record you were mentioning prior
on the Sun in a recent episode.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, it's so good. This new record is so good.
It's playful and memorable and also snarky and also just
gritty and all the things that makes Carl a happy
little boy. This song has that.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Okay, amazing. So my next recommendation is Regina Specter Blue Lips,
which is on the record far which I feel like
it's like not her most famous or popular record, but
I really like it. It's like a it's super well produced.
I love the way the piano sounds, and the songwriting
is amazing. So it's like just really heartfelt melodies and
(29:27):
quirky and interesting lyrics. So the whole record has that,
but it's just like one one song from that record
called Blue Lips. So if you haven't heard it, go
check it out.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Okay, Oh I mean I need one more. Oh I
got to do a King Gizzard.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, dude, totally.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
These are the albums in chronological order, so these are
all the albums since twenty fourteen. These are full length
albums since fourteen. My god, right, like that's it's wild,
and like this one here it sounds almost like a
prog rock motorhead. And then this one I want to
pull up from the oddments. It is almost like a
(30:03):
like Unknown Mortal Orchestra, Unknown Mortal Orchestra and Wolfpeck, but
like way weirder and more distortion. Like it's just it's
so good. Hot wax s would be the one that
I want to do. That's the one that my daughter
sings along to all the time. Hot Wax by King
Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Amazing. My last recommendation is called Instant Salm from the
latest The Smile record, which is like the Radiohead breakoff band.
And I the minute I heard this song, I was
like into it and like you know, usually with like
Radiohead is like a slow build sort of band, but
this song is just like a classic Tom ballad. I
(30:41):
guess I don't know. It's really good. The new record
is great, so you should. Everyone should check it out. Actually,
really a really great record.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Okay, great, yeah, no, thanks for sharing those man.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, thank you, Carl. We got we have homework now
to listen to our new songs. Yes, well, I'll send
you my playlist, You send me your playlist, okay.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And then we'll put we'll put the combined playlist into
the show.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Now it's perfect.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, okay. I hope that that helps. I hope that
everybody listening can find some inspiration from from some new
tunes and knowing that it's okay to get stuck and
it's okay to feel uninspired. And I think, you know,
just trying to go back to your roots as a
listener and not I guess, not back not your roots.
Let me rephrase that. I don't mean to get back
(31:22):
to your roots as a listener in the sense of
listening to what you're comfortable with. I mean try to
harness that childlike curiosity and the feeling of hearing something
that you know changes your brain, you know, the way
that it did when we were thirteen and hearing doubt
respiral for the first time or whatever.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Because I think the only way you can really grow
is to is to input new things. You know, Like
if we keep that just in the same old crap,
even if it's good crap, we're not going to grow.
We're just gonna like hone in. And I think it's
important for us to not just hone in, but also
to learn outward and collect more soundscapes, because I think
that will go further for us in terms of also
(32:04):
just like whether it's making productions or mixing, like just
getting ideas of like what things can sound like, not
just what they should sound like.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, it'll make us more fearless too. Yeah, which is
I think a very great characteristic that we should all
strive to.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh man, totally totally.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah on that note, and that's a good episode. I
had fun.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, I got what I wanted out of this episode.
I was like, Carl, I'm uninspired. Help me. Here's some
good ideas, and now I want to do those ideas
and hopefully they will pull me into a new era
of inspiration. So here's hopin.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Awesome dude, Ben, Great seeing your smiling face today. Likewise, Carl,
and sorry again about the daylight savings time surprise, but
surprised we worked in learning. Yeah, you're the man. I
appreciate you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I will see you soon, Yes, I think so.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Bye Ben, Bye Carl.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as we did.
If anything here resonated with you, please share this or
your favorite episode with a friend.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And as always, we love to hear from our listeners,
so find us on social media at Secret Sonics.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
At Ben Wallace Music, and at Carl Bonner.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Until next time, Bye Ben.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Bye, Carl, that's good. I think the outro is great.
I think I was describing like Valentine's Day not a
critical experience, But yeah, I mean, I don't. I mean,
is there a difference, Like do you not treat yourself
like it's Valentine's Day when you want to listen to
something critically anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
A little bit? Yeah you do.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I'm going to listen to some seal.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi. I'm Ben and I'm Carl, and you're listening to
Secret Sonics, honest conversations chock full of tactical advice to
help you build your dream career in music and audio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Whether it's skill development, mixing mindsets, personal branding, or work
life balance. We talk about ways to help set yourself
up for success in the ever changing music industry.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Let's get started.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hi, Ben, Hi Carl. I am glad to see you,
and I'm sorry I made you scramble because, as a
typical American, I kind of forgot that our daylight saving
time changes at a different time than other places and
the world doesn't revolve around us.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's that's exactly right, well said.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yes, so I get to scare you. I mean, like, hey,
I'm in the waiting room for Riverside. Let's do this
episode and you're like, I thought I had another hour,
but I'm glad it worked out.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, it totally worked out.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I matter.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's good. It means a goat home an hour earlier,
so that's good for me. Yeah, hey, Carl's good to
see you. Man, you too.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I'm very glad that we had that kind of lull
a couple months ago, and then we had like a
little micro lull after that. But I feel like we're
kind of back into like at general of things, and
I'm glad to see your face every week.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah. Well, you moved houses, I moved studios, and things
are starting to hit a rhythm, hit a routine. I'm
not that life ever fully hits a routine when you
have little kids and stuff, but you know, things are
stablish you know.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, they're getting they're getting routinier.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
They're getting routinier. I like that, not teenier, routinier. It's good, amazing. Well,
I thought I would tea up something. I don't know
if this is going to go well, but I'm gonna try.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
We'll find out.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I don't know. I've been feeling a little bit lack
of inspiration recently, and I want to get back into
inspired land, Like I want to be like, let's make
music today, let's try something new. And I've just been
sort of I've done so many things. Life is so tough.
I don't feel like doing anything. If I have free time,
(02:16):
I'm probably gonna just space out and doom scroll or
watch a YouTube video or whatever. Like where's the inspiration?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Man?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So I wanted to kind of like freestyle this and
talk about ways that we can get ourselves out of
a funk get into an inspired zone. So, like, how
do we find inspiration? Carl? If you're feeling like down
and out, what's your go to method for getting repped
up about music?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I have a fairly oversimplified answer for this. I feel
like for a very long time when I was not
inspired or I was just kind of like you know,
in a funk or you know, writer's block or producer's
block or whatever you want to label it, I used
to think, oh, well, if I just you know, challenge
myself to make something, I'm just going to make something.
(02:59):
It doesn't matter, you know, constraints. I'm just gonna go
be myself. It usually ends up kind of making things
worse in reality, ends up kind of like just continuing
that staring at a blank session kind of feeling, or
even worse, spending time on something just to like experiment
with it, and then you're like, wow, this really sucks,
(03:19):
and now I'm no closer to inspiration, and also I
feel bad about my skills. It doesn't happen all the time,
but I'm sure everybody listening has had that happen at
least once. And this is me personally, but it took
a long time for me to kind of realize that
when I need need inspiration, or when I'm feeling stuck
or I'm feeling like I've you know, plateaued or whatever,
(03:41):
I think my instinct is to try to create something
and try to create something new. But what I've found
is that for me, what actually inspires me is to
stop worrying about what I'm creating and just try to
take new things in. So that's when I try to
go into like a I don't even necessarily say like
deep listening mode, but just like I try to find
(04:03):
music I've never heard of and try to find styles
I don't know and just try to absorb it and
appreciate it, and not necessarily because I want to pick
it apart and learn to think about it and try
to make a new style of music. Like the end
goal is not for me to hear something new and
then like as an experiment to like shake things up,
try to make it myself. It's just purely to try
(04:24):
to find something I've never heard before that kind of sparks,
you know, that that little fire again. That is really
what got me into doing music in the first place.
You know, like you don't get into music because you've
created first, and then you discover that other people make music,
you know what I mean, Like you you're a listener first,
you're a fan first, and then you start to become
(04:45):
the creative and the technician and like all the different things.
So I found for myself, if I'm stuck and I
want to try to find inspiration, find something new, I
need to like really go back to the basics. And
for me, like I used to think that creating something
without any limitations was the basics, but I think I
have to go even further back to just listening. You know,
(05:07):
whether it's putting on the New Music Friday playlist that is,
you know, obviously gonna be songs I've probably never heard,
but also a lot of artists and a lot of
styles that I've never listened to before, or just I
will say, trying to do this at first, at least
through like a Spotify playlist, like something like an editorial
(05:28):
playlist I found helps me because you could also say, well,
what if I just, like, you know, scroll through Instagram
and look for artists, you know, like you can very
easily get pulled out of looking for cool music and
getting inspired by cool music and start going down a
rabbit hole of doom scrolling. So this is like trying
to keep myself. I'm kind of like forcing myself to
listen to new music and not allowing myself to get
(05:50):
distracted by the non music things that are on Instagram
or TikTok or YouTube. And it's just tried to pull
myself back to that kind of pure childlike state of
hearing something new for the first time and then when
it something grabs my attention and like my eyes light
up the same way that they lit up when I
was in my uncle's basement the very first time that
(06:12):
I heard Blood Sugar, Sex Magic. Like, I want to
try to have that kind of a feeling when I'm
thirty nine, when I'm forty, when I'm forty five, when
I'm fifty five, when I live to be the first
person to be one hundred and twenty years old, even
though I'm going to be like a useless vegetable that
just complains.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
About you never know, man, by then we may have
developed all kinds of crazy medicines.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, I'll still be there in my recliner chair complaining
about producers that use profile pictures of the back of
their head in front of a console. That'll be like
my stop telling your war story scramble. That'll be like
my equivalent of that. But yeah, that's what I try
to do. I just try it. I can't inspire myself,
you know. I think that's a very humbling thing that
(06:56):
I needed to come to terms with and I'm not
going to force in. I'm not going to create inspiration
for myself. I need to find it through somebody else's music.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, that was my hunch. Also, like my hunch is like, oh,
let's just make something even though that makes sense, that
will inspire you and you're like one thing we'll lead
to another. But it's hard to just do that if
you don't have anything. It's really like kind of jumping
into a cold body of water when you don't really
don't want to. It shouldn't be, but it is. And
then like, the reason why we got into this is
(07:27):
because we fell in love with something that was coming
out of a speaker. And yeah, finding new music is
I find it super inspiring and I need more of it,
and I need to find more of it.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
I'm gonna this might be a hot take, and I
might ruffle some feathers to listeners, and I apologize in advance.
I still love you. I think the saddest thing I
can hear from a producer or engineer is that they
don't listen to music. They only listen to this stuff
that they're working on. I think that to me, this
is again my hot take. You can disagree with me.
(07:59):
I still love you. But the way that I look
at it is if I ever get to that point,
and I've been at that point before, and if I
get to that point again, that I feel like that's
completely disconnected me from what got me into music in
the first place. You know, So if you have that
kind of experience, you know, if if you're somebody that
you know doesn't listen to new music, they just listen
(08:20):
to the stuff that they're working on. I think you'll
be able to kind of, I think, rediscover a little
bit of the childlike wonder if you go out of
your way to try to find some new new music.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, and new music for the record could be old music, right.
I was actually listening to an interesting interview with Rick Rubin,
and he's saying, like, most of what he listens to
now is like stuff that's really old he just hasn't
heard yet, like you know, sixties psychedelic or jazz or whatever.
But he's still listening to new music, right.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Like new to you? Is new to you is the
most important?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah. I think also it's like a thing like when
you hit your thirties or whatever. I don't know what
age it is that people just kind of stop listening
to stuff that's new. And like I'm just like realizing, like, oh, fuck,
so old, Like everything I love was made twenty years ago,
you know, like like what the fuck? How is this
like that? You know, the John Mayer record we were
talking about Continuum, Like that's like literally almost twenty years old.
That's crazy, that's insane. You know, that was new, that
(09:14):
was just new, you know, I was I was in college,
you know whatever. How is like in Rainbow's almost twenty
years old. That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I remember standing in line of buying that at Tower Records.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yes exactly, yeah, Tower Records when that existed back in
the good old days. But it's it's a problem. It's
very hard as life goes on you get older just
sort of be open minded enough to listen to new
music and to I think you're weird that you like
doing that, But I think most people it's a conscientious
effort if you want to listen to new stuff once
(09:42):
you hit a certain age.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, but I think like for the general population, like
I totally get it, you know what I mean. And
I think like maybe this, if you want to look
at it from a philosophical standpoint, you could say, oh,
you know, we listened to the music from our you know,
our formative years because we have all these like nostalgic
you know, memories associated with them, right. I like making
new memories. I like associating music and experiences with new
(10:08):
memories too. I don't want to just only have memories
from when I was in high school, you know what
I mean, especially in music, which is like what I
listened to and do like all day every day. That's
what drives me as a creative. But I'll say, like,
for example, I want I want to go back to
the whole like new to you. There are certain bands
that I've heard the names of a gazillion times that
just have never taken the chance to listen to them,
(10:29):
never just sat down and listened one. This was two
weeks ago now by the time of this episode comes out.
I think I talked in the previous episode about how
I recently got diagnosed with ADHD, which is no surprise
to literally anybody, but I started taking adderall for it,
and it's been so helpful and adding so much like
(10:49):
clarity to my day. It's been unreal. But the first
full day that I had it, I was also at
home with my daughter. That day was one of my
day's after in the week, so only you usually work
four days a week, and I remember I was hanging
out with my daughter, who's almost two, and I finally decided,
you know what, I have a couple students and some
(11:11):
friends that have worked with King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard,
and I've never listened to them. I'm gonna check them
out and I just once on Spotify hit Play, and
I have pretty much not stopped listening to them for
like a week and.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
A half because beat the name of that band.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
You should absolutely Jack the Nerd and the got it.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
For anybody that's listening and you're like, if you're a
big I think they call them from Yeah, I think
they're giz Heeads. I think they call it. I'm super
new to this, don't haze me, but I think it's
super interesting because they put out I think like twenty
albums since twenty ten. Something crazy they did I think
five albums in twenty twenty two, like full length God,
(11:53):
and they just had this really like it's very experimental
and like every album is its own kind of like thing,
and they just like deep dive into like a particular
like style or concept and it's it's really really good.
And it's not just like experimental for experimental sake, because
I spent a lot of years in that world, like
doing like New York avant garde jazz stuff. This is
(12:14):
like really really fucking good. And I'm really kind of
mad at myself for taking so long to finally like
check them out because that's been really inspiring to me.
And that's a perfect example of, like I'm thirty nine
finding an artist that I now like, am really really
diving into and really loving. But I'm definitely past the
(12:38):
average age of when people stop seeking out new music.
And also some of the albums are from like twenty twelve,
twenty fourteen that I'm really getting into, so it's new
to me at you know, a later age. And also
it's just really good and really fun. And my oldest
daughter started like singing along some of the songs in
(12:59):
the car, which is really fun and weird. But that's
a perfect example of, you know, finding something that is,
you know, new to us, but not necessarily new new new.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So I want to ask you who were some artists
that you've known about or known of and everybody has
told you to check them out and you just never have.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Wow, you're really you know, asking me without any uh forethought.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Here to be fair, this was your idea, you idea
you brought.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I didn't tell you to ask no, wait wait wait.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Wait wait don't I'm just saying you. Before we hit record,
you were like, I've got a question. I want to
ask you, but I don't want to wait till we
hit record.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
And Okay, here's like a band, a band i've never like,
actually dug into, Like the Black Keys, I've heard, you know,
I've heard a lot of their songs, but i've I've
actually never really listened carefully to any of the records.
That's like a one example.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But you've heard some of their stuff, Like what about
Quorn that you've never knowingly heard?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Band that I've never knowingly heard. Man, there's probably so
many I don't know until recently, I would say, but
it's not actually true because I have heard some of it.
Like Tool, I had only listened to like a couple
of songs until I don't know a month ago, and
I listened to a few more songs because my friend
shared it with me. I haven't heard any songs. That's
really hard. That's a tough question. You know, obviously there
(14:19):
are there's probably hundreds of thousands or millions of songs there.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Okay, about this, let's specify the constraints of this question. Okay,
so it's an artist that maybe you've heard, I'll say
you've heard one song by them, you know, one song
or least like if they had like a big single,
but you don't know anything else about them, but you've
had friends that have specifically said, oh my god, you
need to check these guys out. All this stuff is
really good. Maybe even like oh that single like that
(14:43):
that's crap, Like you know, listen to their third album.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Ah, I feel like I have to go on Spotify now.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Okay, I can think of another one for me that
I need to do. This will probably be my next
homework assignment for myself. Fugazi is another one that, like
I've heard.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Isn't fugazi like a genre also, or it's a straight
up band.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It's a band. I think you're thinking, like shoegaze.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Oh yeah, Shoegaz.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
That's right, shoegaze hardcore like punk band that there's no
reason why I don't listen to them or know them
or love them, you know what I mean. Like from
what I've heard, they check all the boxes. But for
some reason, I think this is what happens to me
a lot. There will be somebody will tell me to
check out a band, and I'm just not in a
situation where I can physically listen to music. Like maybe
we're like at you know, at a restaurant, at a
(15:25):
bar or something or hanging out and they're telling me
and I just like can't pull my phone out and
start listening to a song. Or I'm in a situation
where I can just listen to anything in the world
and that band name just isn't the one that comes
to mind, and I just kind of forget that I
was supposed to listen to them. And then just like
right now is when Fugazi comes up in conversation, but
(15:47):
I can't just like stop and you know, interrupt, pull
it out, interrupt this podcast, and it's like going deep
dive on Fugazi and then like kick back into the podcast,
you know. So like I feel like that happens to me.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, a lot. Here's a perfect I just found one,
The tragically Hip. I don't know if you know about
the tragically Hip, but they're like the biggest Canadian rock
band of all time basically that nobody knows about in
America or other countries other than Canada. Like Rush, everybody
knows about Rush, right, but the tragically Hip stayed in Canada.
And my brother in law is a massive fan because
you know, my wife is Canadian. So this is like
(16:21):
I just never actually gave it more than like half
a listen, you know what I mean. So maybe it's
worth That would be a perfect example of something that
has come up a trillion times and I haven't actually
gotten into it, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay, well that'll be your drive home listening to music.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
The Tragically Hip. Let's put it on.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
One of the things I've noticed over the past twenty
years being in the industry is that audio school usually
leaves most graduates completely unprepared for entering the industry. I mean, sure,
you learn how to rewire a patch, bait or sleep,
but they probably won't teach you how to stand out
and attract the kinds of artists that fuel your passion
for recording. I appreciate what you bring to the table,
let alone pay their rates. You want to get paid
(16:57):
and YouTube university is full of people telling you that
their way is the right way, and it doesn't help
you apply things to your unique struggles, personality and ideal clients.
So I've been building studio land to fill those gaps.
We use structured learning paths. We leave live classes in
a private community of other pros to help you discover
how to turn your technical expertise into a thriving business
(17:17):
that attracts the right clients at the right rates. Try
it out for free the links in the show notes.
I want to make a distinction too, you know, when
we're talking about how we find inspiration, and I keep
on going back to listening to new music, whether that's
twenty twenty five new music or that's nineteen ninety seven,
but new to ben music as hard as it is,
(17:38):
if you can listen to it casually, like as a listener, cool,
You know. I usually play it on either my phone
speakers or like want to have a little like crappy
soundbar that I just play with through bluetooth because I
know it doesn't sound good, but like then I can.
It frustrates me to try to listen to it academically
and like pick things apart, so I can just I
give up and I just like listen as as a listener.
(18:00):
But I feel like, you know, don't get mad at
yourself if you can't just listen casually, because if you
are learning from it, if you are like, oh, I
really like this, I really like but that it's here,
I really don't like this, Like I say, that's still
kind of like that still will help you and I
still be interesting and inspiring because you're going to look
at a thing and get a little bit. But I
(18:21):
would just say, like, don't actively think, oh I need
to make this like a critical listening exercise. Like it
can just be on your phone. It can be in
the car, it can be on a little shitty bluetooth
speaker out in the yard, like I love doing it
while I'm mowing the lawn. You know, I have my
headphones on. I have a little, you know, crappy electric
mower so it's not super loud and just you know,
listen to listen to new stuff that because I'm like,
(18:43):
I'm not sitting in a perfectly acoustically treated room, you know,
with candles and like the late light stem. Like it's
not you know, like a I think I was describing
like Valentine's Day not a critical experience. But yeah, I
mean I don't. I'm it is is there a difference,
like do you not treat yourself like it's Valentine's Day
(19:03):
when you want to listen to something critically anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
A little bit you do.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I'm going to listen to some seal, But no, I
think like that's a good way to do it. It's
just like because when you grew up, when you first
discovered music that really grabbed your attention, it didn't grab
your attention because you knew a ton about music and
acoustics and you had it and you were like really
impressed by the smoothness of the guitar reverb tale, like
you heard it as a as a normal person, you know, yea,
(19:30):
So make sure make sure you're listening to music as
a normal person outside of your studio.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah. There also, there's just been so many, you know,
artists recommended on this podcast, and when I'm like mm
hm and no, obviously I haven't heard any any songs
by them because there's just so many artists and like
you can't know, you can't possibly know everything. There's so
much more to explore.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
You know. What would be fun actually for this episode
in the show notes, you and I should make a
playlist where we each maybe recommend five songs to each
other slash to the listener. So these are maybe a
total of like ten songs that we feel like if
you don't know them, you should. You should just hear
this song even just.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Does it have to be an obscure song, or can
it be like a popular song that you may just
made that someone else just might not have heard of.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
That's fine either way, Yeah, I mean I would I
would avoid if it's like so ridiculously popular that everybody yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Like no blinding lights, you know, no dua lipa yah,
I got it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
But I would argue if you wanted to do something
like Tommy Richmond or something that's like TikTok popular, but
nobody's ever like ninety nine point nine nine nine percent
of people I've never heard more than like a twelve
second clip of it. I'd allow you to do that,
but I don't pay you as a viral TikTok music person.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
So you're actually gonna have to put that in your
list to share with me. So there you go, Okay,
got it. I think that's also like a good initiative also,
just to do with friends, just to continually share music
with other people. At the beginning of COVID, one of
my buddies made like a WhatsApp group where it's just
like an album a day and people would just share albums.
Everybody would just share an album. I mean, one person
would share an album. At the beginning of the day
and then people would have a chance to listen to it,
(21:07):
and like I did get exposed to some more new
music and it was fun and it was like a
chance to like do something while you were in isolation. Yeah,
that was a little bit out out there. The other
thing I was thinking about is that, like I have
like an old school receiver in my living room and speakers,
and I just need to like contact spray the thing
and get it working again because it's basically stopped working
(21:29):
and there's like been less music in my life because
of that. And I think keeping like a good place
to listen to music in your home is really fun.
Like then I got like an old Bluetooth sound thing
working and then stopped working because it was really old.
But like for a couple of days I had that
blasting and it was like just fun to listen to
music with the kids in the house. Yeah, because it
had been a while since, you know, everything's been so
crazy here, so I haven't had a chance to get
(21:51):
my life up and running properly. Now I don't have
a studio in the house also, so I don't have
speakers in the home, So I really need to get
the setup going because I think that would definitely inspire
and also lift the mood in the in the house.
So I gotta get back on it.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I agree. I'm gonna fight you for a second though,
mm hmm. I'm not saying that you're doing this. I
could see a lot of potential analogous situations, So like, oh,
I just see that, like one more plug it and
then I'll be I'll be done.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, I don't know. I'm not get.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
That new pre app, I'll you know that new that
new guitar pickup. So so I'm just saying, like, use
your fucking phone, bend, start today, don't wait till let's
till your thing works. Just yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
But it's just like this thing that I have been
like trying to I've been thinking about doing and not doing.
You know, like that thing that's on your to do list,
but it's so low down on your till the do
list that you just never get to it. It's that
And because I'm always listening to music in the studio
and I'm in the car and blah blah blah blah.
But what happened was I use the contact spray to
fix my bas amp because I had a little a
little jam session here, and then I sprayed it in
(22:51):
this Are twenty, which I mentioned at the beginning of
this podcast before we started recording. And now that I've
used the contact spray, I'm going to take it back
home and hopefully fix up them arrants, and then then
we'll have some nice tunes in the house. So one
thing leads to another, We're going back to that like yeah,
adhd episode of Time Management where the guy from Malcolm
in the Middle says, what does it look like I'm doing?
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Throw that back?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Does anybody remember that?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
And I do. It's so good, good old hal. So
I have I have an idea. This is like maybe like, uh,
let's try this for a couple episodes. I think this
would be good. I think for the next few episodes,
each of us should recommend five songs that the listener
should listen to. Okay, let's be proactive, not just for ourselves,
(23:38):
like we'll be giving each other new music to listen to,
but then also giving the listeners some stuff. And we
can make like a simple ten song playlist. Five songs
from me, five songs from you. Let's try to get
in the habit for ourselves of listening to more new music,
but also give the our loyal fan base, you wonderful
silly humanoids. Give you guys something to listen to as well.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay, let's start a community around listening to new music
and break out of old habits. Yeah, get inspired, Get inspired.
So here's what we're going to do, Ben.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
We are each going to list five songs that we
want to put on this week's playlist. And these are
songs that I think you should hear and that I
think the listeners should hear and be I want to
be very clear, I am not saying, hey, these are
the five songs that are going to inspire you to
become the most successful producer in the history of sound.
(24:29):
And also I'm not trying to make it seem like
you need to make these your favorite new bands, and
if you don't, I hate you. You know that that
is obviously not the keys. This is just like, here
are some interesting sounds, interesting approaches to music that you
may not have heard before, and if you did, maybe
it'll be something that'll re spark a deep dive of
(24:51):
your own. Okay, Okay, I'm going to start off. The
first one I'll do is that Tommy Richmond song Million
Dollar Baby VHS version, So this is that one that
was like big on TikTok for like the twelve seconds
of the of the song. But I think just sonically,
there's just something really interesting and I don't know it's
it's really it's a really interesting sonic landscape and super
catchy obviously, but I think there's just some like there's
(25:14):
a whole lot of I don't give a fuck energy
in the song, which I think is really I don't know,
I think that's that should be inspiring and nothing else.
And you don't have to like the song. You don't
have to listen to it more than once, but I think,
like give it a shot just to like see what
the vibe is and what they did to kind of
get that vibe across.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Sweet Okay, My first recommendation is going to be Tender
Defender from the new Wolfpack record featuring Theo Casman on vocals.
This song has been stuck in my head since the
record came out less than a week ago, so I've
been I've been totally jamming out to this and yeah,
former guests the show, Noah Mohlmberg mixed it and mastered it,
which just fun and I just like can't stop listen
(25:54):
to this song. It's so so catchy, it's so fun.
It's just like a great combination of like a melody
and funk. So yeah, that's my first recommendation.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Okay, my second song is going to be The zoo
Keeper's Boy by Me. So this is from two thousand
and five, but I think I first heard it in
maybe seven or eight, and it is just so weird
and it's like this beautiful combination of like odd phrases,
really jangly guitars, and just incredibly memorable vocal production. Like
(26:27):
it's just I think they're Swedish. It's weird, but like
in a really really good way, which obviously is my jam.
So I think you should check them out.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Okay, amazing, This just like came up for me, and
that's like a fun song for me to share. You
Only Live Once by the Strokes. If you haven't gotten
into the Strokes, I think this is a great song
to get you into the Strokes. It's not like the
first record where it's a little bit more low fi.
This is like high five production. I love the guitar parts.
They're so melodic and they rock really hard, and it's
just a really badass song.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So or I think, like, even if you have heard
The Strokes but you've only heard Night, you know this
will be Yes a good one. Reptility is really good too,
but I think is the same album or that's the
right one.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I think it's on their third record, Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
The next one. This is going to be Francis and
the Lights just for us. I first heard of Francis
and the Lights a couple of years ago, and it
is just I don't know a ton about them, but
I just know, like every time I hear some of
their songs, I'm just like in love with it. It's
like this combination of a modern minimalist Peter Gabriel kind
(27:30):
of thing. Like I don't know how to describe it.
It's almost like if Phil collins attempt to be catchy
was blended with Peter Gabriel's ability to make things catchy
but also not corny, you know what I mean. I
don't know how else to describe that.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I'm not sure I know what you mean, but I'm
excited to hear it. It's really just eighties throwback right here, but.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It doesn't feel ladies like it's a really good job
of like having that, but it doesn't having some like
some vintage feel a little bit, but almost feels like
vintage songwriting, but without it being on the nose, you know,
retro production. It's really good, really interesting.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Cool. I'm excited to check it out. I'm gonna go
old school with my next one, Carolina in my mind,
James Taylor, come on classic. It's just such a good
example of like folks singer songwriter in like the seventies.
Just a beautiful singing voice and production. So go check
that out. If you haven't listened to James Taylor yet,
get into James Taylor.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, that's a perfect one for me actually, because like obviously,
like I've known of James Taylor for a zillion years
and I probably listened to a whole bunch, but I've
never just sat down and thought to myself, I want
to listen to James Taylor right now. I just thought,
like what I grew up on, and so that's a
perfect thing for me to to check out. Cool. Yeah, Okay,
Empire of the Sun music on the Radio.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
This is from the new record you were mentioning prior
on the Sun in a recent episode.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, it's so good. This new record is so good.
It's playful and memorable and also snarky and also just
gritty and all the things that makes Carl a happy
little boy. This song has that.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Okay, amazing. So my next recommendation is Regina Specter Blue Lips,
which is on the record far which I feel like
it's like not her most famous or popular record, but
I really like it. It's like a it's super well produced.
I love the way the piano sounds, and the songwriting
is amazing. So it's like just really heartfelt melodies and
(29:27):
quirky and interesting lyrics. So the whole record has that,
but it's just like one one song from that record
called Blue Lips. So if you haven't heard it, go
check it out.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Okay, Oh I mean I need one more. Oh I
got to do a King Gizzard.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, dude, totally.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
These are the albums in chronological order, so these are
all the albums since twenty fourteen. These are full length
albums since fourteen. My god, right, like that's it's wild,
and like this one here it sounds almost like a
prog rock motorhead. And then this one I want to
pull up from the oddments. It is almost like a
(30:03):
like Unknown Mortal Orchestra, Unknown Mortal Orchestra and Wolfpeck, but
like way weirder and more distortion. Like it's just it's
so good. Hot wax s would be the one that
I want to do. That's the one that my daughter
sings along to all the time. Hot Wax by King
Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Amazing. My last recommendation is called Instant Salm from the
latest The Smile record, which is like the Radiohead breakoff band.
And I the minute I heard this song, I was
like into it and like you know, usually with like
Radiohead is like a slow build sort of band, but
this song is just like a classic Tom ballad. I
(30:41):
guess I don't know. It's really good. The new record
is great, so you should. Everyone should check it out. Actually,
really a really great record.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Okay, great, yeah, no, thanks for sharing those man.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, thank you, Carl. We got we have homework now
to listen to our new songs. Yes, well, I'll send
you my playlist, You send me your playlist, okay.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And then we'll put we'll put the combined playlist into
the show.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Now it's perfect.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Yeah, okay. I hope that that helps. I hope that
everybody listening can find some inspiration from from some new
tunes and knowing that it's okay to get stuck and
it's okay to feel uninspired. And I think, you know,
just trying to go back to your roots as a
listener and not I guess, not back not your roots.
Let me rephrase that. I don't mean to get back
(31:22):
to your roots as a listener in the sense of
listening to what you're comfortable with. I mean try to
harness that childlike curiosity and the feeling of hearing something
that you know changes your brain, you know, the way
that it did when we were thirteen and hearing doubt
respiral for the first time or whatever.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Because I think the only way you can really grow
is to is to input new things. You know, Like
if we keep that just in the same old crap,
even if it's good crap, we're not going to grow.
We're just gonna like hone in. And I think it's
important for us to not just hone in, but also
to learn outward and collect more soundscapes, because I think
that will go further for us in terms of also
(32:04):
just like whether it's making productions or mixing, like just
getting ideas of like what things can sound like, not
just what they should sound like.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, it'll make us more fearless too. Yeah, which is
I think a very great characteristic that we should all
strive to.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh man, totally totally.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah on that note, and that's a good episode. I
had fun.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, I got what I wanted out of this episode.
I was like, Carl, I'm uninspired. Help me. Here's some
good ideas, and now I want to do those ideas
and hopefully they will pull me into a new era
of inspiration. So here's hopin.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Awesome dude, Ben, Great seeing your smiling face today. Likewise, Carl,
and sorry again about the daylight savings time surprise, but
surprised we worked in learning. Yeah, you're the man. I
appreciate you so much.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I will see you soon, Yes, I think so.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Bye Ben, Bye Carl.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as we did.
If anything here resonated with you, please share this or
your favorite episode with a friend.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
And as always, we love to hear from our listeners,
so find us on social media at Secret Sonics.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
At Ben Wallace Music, and at Carl Bonner.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Until next time, Bye Ben.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Bye, Carl, that's good. I think the outro is great.
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