April 15, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode, Ben and Carl dive deep into the psychology of permission-seeking that stops so many creative professionals from taking the next step in their careers. Through the story of an artist hesitant to perform her first solo show, they explore why we often wait for external validation before pursuing our goals – whether that's raising our rates, reaching out to dream clients, or sharing our creative work.
Discover:
Ben and Carl's Weekly Inspiration Playlist - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1IpnxDVoTY44JBV1j19H4h?si=0f80e020d8ae497e
LA Wildfire Relief:
Musicares - https://donor.musicares.org/page/lafirerelief
WAMTN - https://give.wearemovingtheneedle.org/campaign/654724/donate
Learn more about StudioLand - https://www.welcometostudioland.com/a/2147995182/bmyFf8p5
Download our free guide: "The Future-Proof Mixing Engineer: 8 Essential Skills for 2024 and Beyond" - https://mpe-ebook.benwallick.com/future-proof-mixing
Connect with us:
Secret Sonics - https://www.instagram.com/secretsonics
Ben - https://www.instagram.com/benwallickmusic/
Carl - https://www.instagram.com/carlbahner/
Learn more:
https://www.benwallick.com/
https://www.carlbahner.com/
This episode with edited by Gavi Kutliroff - https://www.instagram.com/pleasant_peasant_music/
Discover:
- Why we fear judgment for actions that most people won't even notice
- How taking risks transforms skeptics into supporters
- The assumptions that prevent us from sending that first message to potential clients
- Why bold mixing and production choices follow the same psychological pattern
- How success often comes to those willing to execute without permission
Ben and Carl's Weekly Inspiration Playlist - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1IpnxDVoTY44JBV1j19H4h?si=0f80e020d8ae497e
LA Wildfire Relief:
Musicares - https://donor.musicares.org/page/lafirerelief
WAMTN - https://give.wearemovingtheneedle.org/campaign/654724/donate
Learn more about StudioLand - https://www.welcometostudioland.com/a/2147995182/bmyFf8p5
Download our free guide: "The Future-Proof Mixing Engineer: 8 Essential Skills for 2024 and Beyond" - https://mpe-ebook.benwallick.com/future-proof-mixing
Connect with us:
Secret Sonics - https://www.instagram.com/secretsonics
Ben - https://www.instagram.com/benwallickmusic/
Carl - https://www.instagram.com/carlbahner/
Learn more:
https://www.benwallick.com/
https://www.carlbahner.com/
This episode with edited by Gavi Kutliroff - https://www.instagram.com/pleasant_peasant_music/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All of these assumptions that we make that are stopping
us from taking that set, They're stopping us from doing
that solo show, that are stopping us from sending that message,
or stopping us from making that bold move. It's all
based on assumptions about other people, and we're letting that
dictate our actions rather than looking at ourselves and saying,
that's something that I have aspired to. Yeah, I want
(00:22):
to do that.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Ben and I'm Carl, and you're listening to Secret Sonics,
honest conversations chock full of tactical advice to help.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You build your dream career in music and audio.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Whether it's skill development, mixing mindsets, personal branding, or work
life balance. We talk about ways to help set yourself
up for success in the ever changing music industry.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Let's get started.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Hi, Ben, Hi Carl. My beard is gone.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
My beard has flourished it is.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
We have switched places and now you have the longer beard.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
This is temporary, but by the next time we meet,
my beard will probably be shorter than you are.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Yeah. Mine, car is so fast, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, I'm due for a trim. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Enough about beards. There's our pre show banter. Okay, I
want to dive in. Yeah, some really cool ideas about
topics for today. And I had some cool ideas for
topics today, And we're probably going to end up recording
a couple shorter episodes today. That's our thought anyway, unless
we end up going like down a rabbit hole in
this first topic.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
But this is one that you presented. Oh no, this
is one that I presented.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
This one that you presented. Yeah, but I presented something
that was potentially the other side of that coin.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You know what, I'm gonna throw you for a loop,
go for it. We agreed before we hit record what
the topic we were going to talk about.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I'm going to change it up on you.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh okay, I'm going to use one that you suggested
because you seemed really like excited about it and it
seemed to be really on top of your mind.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
So I want to catch you off, Barie.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You were telling me about a conversation you had with
a client, Yes, and the conversation was about how they,
if I remember correctly, they were asking like, yeah, should
I do like a solo show? And you were basically like, yeah,
why not? And the idea that the artists felt like
they needed some sort of permission or like validation before
trying something that they haven't done before. And I want
(02:17):
to hear, well, first of all, I want to hear
your thoughts about that experience and that story and kind
of like what was going through their heads, but then
like what was going through your head in that, And
then we could talk about some other examples of when
that's happened to us, because it happens so often with
artists or even you know, our friends and peers.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Well, what made this conversation interesting is that this is
an artist who she doesn't want to be a professional artist,
but she does like making her art.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You know, it's important for her, and her art is nice.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And we've made a bunch of songs together already, and
she was telling me that she wants to just like
go it's like a life goal, just get up on
stage and perform her songs. Like even though she doesn't
see herself ever becoming a professional singer songwriter, she is
like pursuing being a therapist, getting a degree in social work,
so it's like that's like her future. I think she
(03:05):
was feeling like this is like too self indulgent, to
just try to make a concert of my own music,
Like who am I to do this? Who's going to
want to come see this? Especially if it's just like
one time, you know, just to just do this for
myself as like a thing. And my response to this
was like, first of all, you should for sure do
this because this is something you want to do, and
it's like on your list, you know what I mean,
(03:25):
Like go for it, and like you don't need anybody's permission,
and if people don't want to come, they won't come.
And if you make one, you know, like I was
telling her that I did a show. I was playing
bass with a good friend of mine who put on
like his first concert of his own original music, and
he didn't have any goals other than just like sharing
his music at least for starters, and you know, maybe
(03:47):
who knows what was going to come after that, but
just to do that first show was valid and it's
like a chance to express yourself. And even if it's
just friends and family that show up, that's still something
that if they show up, they want to show up
for you. So there's like no harm done. You don't
need permission from anyone, even if it's a flop, you know,
(04:07):
like sometimes you got to take those risks and do
those life goals that you want to do, and it's
totally okay and you can do it, Like I was
kind of like telling.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Her, and I wouldn't even argue that, like what would
be considered a flop in that sense. It's like if
she doesn't get picked up by exactly a label like okay,
that was ever the goal, if she doesn't sell a
whole bunch of tickets for it, even if she like
you know, there's a technical difficulties and she starts to
say half hour late, but like it's all her friends there,
(04:35):
like it's very unlikely that just like random people are
going to show up, you know, especially if she does
it like more of a house show sort of situation,
you know, something that's lower pressure, Like there is no flop.
The only flop is if she doesn't do it.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, she has nothing to lose really, I mean, obviously
she's talented enough to get on stage and sing her songs.
Even if she's not like a great musician, she could
play guitar well enough to accompany herself.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And she like you know, wants to bring.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
People up for a little bit other people, but you're
definitely like good enough to do that and people are
not going to walk out and like say, oh, how
I think more it was less about like what other
people thought about the performance and more about what other
people thought about her doing something that she maybe felt
was you know, like selfish, you know, to like do
something to like promote yourself just because you know, and
(05:22):
she didn't feel like that was valid. And I was saying, like, no,
like we do all kinds of stuff for ourselves so
that we feel valid. And that's like I don't know,
different people have different Like it's not my thing, but
people go shopping just to feel like, you know, a person,
you know what I mean, Like, there's all kinds of
ways that people do that, and that's still valid. Even
if you think it's self indulgent, it's still valid, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Like, Yeah, and I would make the argument to you that, like, yes,
we live in a society where people are judgmental, especially
online anyway, right, or at least more they're.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
More vocal about it all mostly online.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Yeah, it's more it's more noticeable online, but.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
It's more polarized, mind, that's for Sureyes, Yes, and I.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Think for those artists that are you know, they're worried
about are people going to think that it is self
indulgent that I'm doing a show. I feel like there
are probably a lot of people, a lot of creatives especially,
that have that sort of feeling, this like fear of
not their music being judged, but like their actions and
their motivations being judged, when in reality, I feel like
(06:22):
it's such a not gonna happen thing, you know, Like
I don't know, like I feel I feel like if
somebody does judge her or think that like, oh, she's
being self indulgent for.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Doing this show, like that's them thing.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, you know, unless it is something where I don't know,
I'm trying to imagine like a a sitcom or a
cartoon where this would happen. Then it would be so
over the top and it would be like oh, renting
out billboards and skywriters and like yeah, you know, like
some some something crazy and ridiculous that over the top.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Like that's like that, It's like that movie The Room.
It's like that, you know, talking about Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Like I've actually never seen it, but yeah, I know,
I know, I know you're talking about it.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
I've heard enough about it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Didn't know exactly what you mean, but I think but
that's like we expect if we take a little chance,
if we get a little bit outside of our comfort zone.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
We think that people are going.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
To react as if we were doing some ridiculous, you know,
over the top show body thing. You know, I would say,
if we're going to tie this into other studio pros,
like other engineers producers. I feel like that's why so
many people are so hesitant to get on social media.
It has it tend to like promote their business and
(07:31):
like talk about the work that they're doing and talk
about the projects they're working on, because they feel like
the second that they go on social media, everyone's going
to think that they're cringey. And it's like you're only
going to be cringey if you do cringey shit. That's
kind of the whatever look at it, And like people
are only going to judge her for being like self
(07:52):
indulgent if she actually does it self indulgently.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
I think that's the word.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I think she'd have to jump through a lot of
hoops to make it like that, you know what I mean.
And I think it's a really good point of like
if you want to do something impactful, whether it's for
yourself or for other people, you kind of sometimes have
to take a risk and get out of a comfort zone,
which could be something like just fear of what other
people think about you. And I'm not saying I'm great
at this because I am afraid of what other people
(08:19):
think of me, but gotten better at it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You know what, it depends on which arena.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
There are some arenas where I just don't give a
given f and there there are arenas where where I do.
But if you want to be impactful, sometimes you have
to just like do your thing no matter what and
not care what other people think. Well, I was talking
to one of the guys that's making this mindfulness AP
I've been working on, and he would say, now that
it's live, people are taking it seriously. All these people,
(08:43):
all these contributors that were like wishy washy with him,
are say, oh you know what, Oh it's it's it's live.
All of a sudden they want to like be a
part of it. And now that they see that, like
he's done the actual work, they're not like judgmental of
like this maybe thing. They're like, oh, let's do like oh, Wow,
they feel I don't want to say envy, but they
go from being skeptical and maybe making fun of it
(09:03):
in a little bit in their heads, to being, oh,
I want to be a part of this now, you know.
And I've found there were times in my journey where
once I did something and I didn't think too much
about it. But if I like, I think a lot
of people are afraid of doing things. So for me,
when I actually started this wedding band back in the day,
people were skeptical until we had weddings booked, and then
(09:23):
once we had weddings books, people were like jealous that
we had actually done a thing and made a thing happen,
you know what I mean. Like, I think people were
judgmental of me when I said I wanted to get
into you know, music production, and like, once I had
a studio, I was like, oh, okay, you know. And
then and then people take you seriously and they go
from like being like, oh, who is this guy? To
all of a sudden, You're like a magnet. And so
(09:44):
when you actually execute on the thing that you think
is crazy, it does the opposite effect. Instead of you
being concerned that other people are judging you, and maybe
they are judging you, but you actually execute on it,
people are like Okay, you know, hats off, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Like with the the artist talk about like the people
that she thought would be judgmental are probably going to
be like really excited and supportive. And like think that
she's so brave for doing this because it's not, like
it isn't a career choice, and this is something that
she's doing just for the sake of wanting to share
her art, and like that is a very brave thing
to do. Like I feel like for us and you know,
(10:19):
the listeners, like sharing our creative works is like so
second nature to us that it's sometimes hard to take
a step back and realize that for like, you know,
normal people, what else to call them, Like for most
of the world, like that is a terrifying concept, you know.
And I think once she actually does the performance, I
(10:39):
feel like there, I don't think they're ever going to
see it how she thinks they're going to see it.
They're going to either not know about it at all
because she doesn't say anything about.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It, or they're going to be impressed.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
The impressed and inspired probably too. Yeah, And I think,
you know, back to the idea of like the magnet,
like once something clicks, people start kind of coming back
to you. I feel like we hear that sort of
tail as old as time with artists and with people
that win the lottery, you know what I mean. It's
kind of like as soon as somebody wins the lottery,
all of like all of like the fourth cousins come out.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Of the woodwork, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Or like when an artist like blows up, like all
the all the friends from high school that were like
you know, always like shit talking them suddenly or like
trying to post as many old photos together like oh yeah,
I've known I've known them since way back.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
When, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And then they get pissy when you know the artist
wants something to do with them because there was they
had nothing to do with them before, you know, and
it's it's this this weird mindset where like yeah, like
they're going to beat you down until you're successful, and
then they're going to act as if they were supporting
you the whole time. Now that's a bit like more jaded,
I think than the situation that your artist is in.
(11:51):
And maybe it's just like not as big of a
scale obviously, because I feel like she's not expecting this
one solo show to get her on the super Have
time or anything. But Yeah, but I think it's something
that we all experience in different ways, whether it's you know,
sharing our creative art or starting a business or asking
somebody out on a date. It happens all the time.
(12:14):
And I think as soon as we can start to
try to rationalize with ourselves that, you know, worst case scenario,
the other person's going to forget about this in like
a week.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Best case scenario you had like a peak life moment,
you know.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Something you'll remember forever. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
One of the things I've noticed over the past twenty
years being in the industry is that audio school usually
leaves most graduates completely unprepared for entering the industry. I mean, sure,
you learn how to rewire a patch bay or sleep,
but they probably won't teach you how to stand out
and attract the kinds of artists that fuel your passion
for recording. I appreciate what you bring to the table,
let alone pay their rates. You want to get paid,
(12:49):
and YouTube university is full of people telling you that
their way is the right way, and it doesn't help
you apply things to your unique struggles, personality and ideal clients.
So I've been building studio land fill those gaps. We
use structured learning paths, weekly live classes in a private
community of other pros to help you discover how to
turn your technical expertise into a thriving business that attracts
(13:09):
the right clients at the right rates. Try it out
for free the links in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Also, a big takeaway is like doing that scary thing,
working hard to do something and to finish it is
always better than to just be scared and not try,
you know. And so whether you're an artist thinking about
performing or making that song, or trying to make a business,
and even if you fail, like there's like a fear
(13:36):
of failure that I think is going back to relationships.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I was talking with some friends of mine.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like the fear of things that could go wrong in
a relationship preventing you from moving forward in a relationship,
I think is something that stops a lot of people
from forming deeper romantic relationships. But if you don't try,
you'll never know and it might flap, of course, it
might flap, like any relationship could flop. But if you
don't try, then you'll then you'll never know. If you're
too afraid of like the consequences, you're also missing out
on the positives of taking leaps and committing to things
(14:02):
and like finishing things, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And I would say, you know, I'm trying to like
tie this in for the you know, producers and engineers
listening and like, yeah, I know, I love the balance
for finding. But I think you know, that's kind of
a thing that we all go through, not just when
we first decide to say, you know what, I think
I'm going to start charging for this. You know, there's
(14:25):
that huge sense of like, oh, is somebody gonna think,
you know, what are they going to think when I
start asking people for money to record them or to
mix them or whatever. I feel like we've all had
that sense of just like that intimidation of saying a
price for the first time, but that I would argue
that that it rears its ugly head throughout your career
as well. And even when you get to a point
(14:46):
where you're like, okay, well I've been charging, pulling a
number out of my butt, like I've been charging, you know,
four hundred dollars a mix, and inflation is going up.
These are harder and like I really should be charging
more than this, but like I'm terrified to just say hundred.
I'm terrified to say six hundred whatever, you know, whatever
the number is. And it's like that feeling of I'm
(15:07):
gonna scare them away? What are they gonna think of me?
Are they gonna think that I'm like too big for
my breeches? You know, like all these things, and then
we talk ourselves out of ever taking that step until
you know, next thing, you know, you've been professionally doing
it for like ten years and still charging two hundred
fifty bucks for a mix, you know, and it's not
(15:27):
because your skills haven't gotten any better. It's just because
you haven't taken the leap of doing what it's gonna
sound way flufy, but like doing what your heart knows
it really should be doing, which is, you know, seeing
yourself as having more value. Then you've been allowing yourself
to see and talking yourself down thinking that people are
going to judge you because you're you're raising your rates
(15:50):
or because you're charging now instead of doing it for free.
So I think it's something that is not just for
non creatives, and it's not just for people that are
doing something new for the first time. I think this
kind of comes back in cycles and hits us in
different ways.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
It's like going back to this like the fear of commitment,
the fear of doing the wrong thing almost and just
like making a move and knowing that if you stick
to your guns, the worst case scenarios is the flop,
but the best case scenario is like you're in a
better place for it.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, and usually like the potential upside far exceeds the potential.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Down exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
It's a calculated risk.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Another takeaway from like mixing engineers maybe, and it could
also be for producers. Honestly, it's just like making bold
choices with whether it's the mix or the production and
not just playing safe just because you feel like they'll
approve a safe thing. Always there is what to be
said about like what you usually do and what people expect.
But sometimes a mix needs something bold, or production needs
(16:54):
something that you've never really done before. But you feel
like you can do something new and exciting and different
and make the move, and worst case scenario you just
you can revert back to what you.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Might usually do.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Best case scenario is you've opened a new pathway of
creativity and like you know, new directions and that's always
fun and inspiring. So you know, you have permission to
do the bold things sometimes and hopefully it'll go well,
but you can always walk it back.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
If it's not working.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, there's very few things that are like unfixable even
with our careers, you know, like not not even just
like in the micro of like a mixed decision or
a production decision. But like even with our careers, is
like very few like well intended things. I'll say that,
like obviously, yeah you could, like really if you're like
a total asshole, like yeah you can.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
You can. You can mess some things up.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
But I guess I'm saying with things that we aspire
to do, things that we have a dream of doing,
there's very very very rarely like a worst case scenario
that's actually that bad.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I say this all the time for when people are
doing outreach, right when they're doing CALT outreach, when they
there's a band they really want to work with, they
want to like they'd love to just like get to
know this band or artists, and if it makes sense
to work together, that would be amazing. But like I
hears all the time, they tell themselves that the artist
isn't gonna care. They tell themselves that they're not going
(18:13):
to respond to the message. They're gonna tell themselves that
they already have somebody else doing it or a great job,
and why do they want to work with me? Tell
themselves all of these different reasons why the artist is
gonna say no, and literally every single one of them
is an assumption, you know, like they're assuming all of
these things. They're assuming that the artist is not gonna
not gonna answer. They're assuming that the artist is even
happy with the project that you were listening to. You're
(18:36):
assuming that they had a great time with that producer
or a great time with that engineer. You're assuming the budget,
you know, for working with a really really top name
engineer is going to always be there. You know, maybe
it's not. You're also assuming that they want to go
in that same direction. You're assuming that they do it
all themselves. You're assuming that they have their team, like
whatever those assumptions are, like, you're never going to know
(18:58):
the actual answer until you talk to them. And I
always say that the worst case scenario when you reach
out to somebody, this could be with reach out to
artists or I mean, I've never been on dating apps,
so I obviously gonna be some nuances that I probably
don't I don't understand. But I feel like in general,
it's like if we send a message to somebody, and
(19:19):
if we send it thoughtfully with intention and it's like
personalized and it's genuine and it's authentically us, the worst
case scenario is that they're not going to actually even
see it. That's the worst case scenario. Other scenarios could
be that they see it and then they just don't respond,
(19:39):
and you don't know if it's because they hate you
or because they just forgot to respond, or they saw
it and thought, oh, I'm gonna respond to this later,
and they did it, and then you can always follow up.
But all the time, maybe they could respond and say, hey,
I really appreciate thanks so much for.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
All of that.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
We already have somebody that we're working with, so like,
you know, not interested, but like in mind for the
future or whatever. Okay, So basically it goes nowhere, but okay,
not the worst thing. And I would say a good
response would be if they're offended and really mean to you,
and I say that that would be a good response
(20:15):
because you're seeing what they're like as people right away,
and you're realizing, oh, this is a bullet that I
am dodging right now.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So, like even the like offended, like sc scariest reaction
is actually probably the single most informative. Like I said, like,
the worst case scenario is that they don't see it
at all, or maybe they see it and they just
don't respond and then they forget about you. That's the
worst case scenario and the example that I always use,
and I'll put you on the spot, Ben, So do
(20:46):
you remember the face of the grocery store clerk that
checked you out last time you went to the grocery store?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Kind of but not not really, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
You remember their name?
Speaker 5 (20:57):
No, they don't wear name tags here, Okay, okay, So
you're yeah, does that mean that you think that they're
like some sort of like lesser a person?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Does that does that mean that you hate them? That
you you're gonna remember this horrible interaction forever.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It was just a moment in my life, in my day,
in my life that.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, it just it just wasn't like a brief It
was a brief interaction that it just wasn't emotionally significant
enough to lodge into your memory. Now, maybe if you
go to the same grocery store and.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
That's kind of problem here, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Or maybe I be like gas station or something. I
mean it's something you go to less frequently, but like,
but once you're starting with that regularly, you'll start to
like you probably still like recognize the people at the
grocery store or at Target or whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
So it's again it's it's not because you have anything
against them and that you were rude for even talking
to them.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
It's just they just didn't lodge in their memory. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
So, Like there's all of these assumptions that we make
that are stopping us from taking that step. They're stopping
us from doing that solo show, that are stopping us
from sending that message or stopping us from making that
bold move. It's all based on assumptions about other people,
and we're letting that dictate our actions rather than looking
(22:19):
at ourselves and saying, I really want to like that's
something that I have aspired to. Yeah, I want to
do that. I'm going to give it a shot. If
it doesn't work out, that's okay, My self worth, my career,
my whole person is not going to be dictated by
the result of this thing that I do.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, exactly, And like it's the opposite if you think
people are judging you, if you do it, they're going
to be drawn to you, like we were talking about earlier,
and people are going to be jealous that you actually
put in the work and you actually did the thing
that was scary.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That's the reality of it. You're afraid that what.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
They're thinking and they're not thinking, But if you do it,
it's the other way around, right, then there are thinking
and they're impressed and jealous and they want to do that.
You know, the world is yours to do your thing.
You know, you don't need permission, and if you actually
are one of the few people that take chances, good
things will come from it.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
To add one thing to the jealousy comment, I would
rather have other people be jealous of the work that
I put in than me be jealous of the results
of somebody else.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Got Yeah, it's one of those like laws of the
universe that that's just the way it works, you know. Awesome, Well, Carl,
this is fun. Yeah, I think we did this. We
can put a ribbon on this episode.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
What do you what do you think?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I think I think we did this, Ben, Yes, that
was legally.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
And because we did this scary episode. Because we did
this scary episode, other people are jealous of us.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It was It wasn't scary, Bed.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It's always fun with you, Carl. No, it's never scary
with you. It's just like friends chatting. So yeah, anyway,
and now the signal is clipped.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
So was this was awesome?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
And this for letting me call the audible there and
change the topic on you without telling you.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, that was so scary, a little bit scary.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I wasn't thinking about it at the time, but I
was feeling like that was the right move. That was
a thing to talk about first today. And I just
fun with it and I you know, it didn't blow
up in.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
My face, and we went with it and that was
good and it was great.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
And you're great.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, and you're great, Carl. And I will see you're
looking at your beard.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Oh yeah, well, and I will. I will see you
next time.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Ben, I'll see you in a little bit.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Okay, Bye, Bet, Bye, Carl.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as we did.
If anything here resonated with you, please share this or
your favorite episode with a friend.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
And as always, we love to hear from our listeners,
so find us on social media at Secret Sonics.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
At Ben Wallace Music, and at Carl Bonner.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Until next time, Bye Ben.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Bye Carl.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
That was good.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I think the octro was great.
All of these assumptions that we make that are stopping
us from taking that set, They're stopping us from doing
that solo show, that are stopping us from sending that message,
or stopping us from making that bold move. It's all
based on assumptions about other people, and we're letting that
dictate our actions rather than looking at ourselves and saying,
that's something that I have aspired to. Yeah, I want
(00:22):
to do that.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Ben and I'm Carl, and you're listening to Secret Sonics,
honest conversations chock full of tactical advice to help.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You build your dream career in music and audio.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Whether it's skill development, mixing mindsets, personal branding, or work
life balance. We talk about ways to help set yourself
up for success in the ever changing music industry.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Let's get started.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Hi, Ben, Hi Carl. My beard is gone.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
My beard has flourished it is.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
We have switched places and now you have the longer beard.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
This is temporary, but by the next time we meet,
my beard will probably be shorter than you are.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Yeah. Mine, car is so fast, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, I'm due for a trim. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Enough about beards. There's our pre show banter. Okay, I
want to dive in. Yeah, some really cool ideas about
topics for today. And I had some cool ideas for
topics today, And we're probably going to end up recording
a couple shorter episodes today. That's our thought anyway, unless
we end up going like down a rabbit hole in
this first topic.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
But this is one that you presented. Oh no, this
is one that I presented.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
This one that you presented. Yeah, but I presented something
that was potentially the other side of that coin.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You know what, I'm gonna throw you for a loop,
go for it. We agreed before we hit record what
the topic we were going to talk about.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I'm going to change it up on you.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh okay, I'm going to use one that you suggested
because you seemed really like excited about it and it
seemed to be really on top of your mind.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
So I want to catch you off, Barie.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You were telling me about a conversation you had with
a client, Yes, and the conversation was about how they,
if I remember correctly, they were asking like, yeah, should
I do like a solo show? And you were basically like, yeah,
why not? And the idea that the artists felt like
they needed some sort of permission or like validation before
trying something that they haven't done before. And I want
(02:17):
to hear, well, first of all, I want to hear
your thoughts about that experience and that story and kind
of like what was going through their heads, but then
like what was going through your head in that, And
then we could talk about some other examples of when
that's happened to us, because it happens so often with
artists or even you know, our friends and peers.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Well, what made this conversation interesting is that this is
an artist who she doesn't want to be a professional artist,
but she does like making her art.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You know, it's important for her, and her art is nice.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And we've made a bunch of songs together already, and
she was telling me that she wants to just like
go it's like a life goal, just get up on
stage and perform her songs. Like even though she doesn't
see herself ever becoming a professional singer songwriter, she is
like pursuing being a therapist, getting a degree in social work,
so it's like that's like her future. I think she
(03:05):
was feeling like this is like too self indulgent, to
just try to make a concert of my own music,
Like who am I to do this? Who's going to
want to come see this? Especially if it's just like
one time, you know, just to just do this for
myself as like a thing. And my response to this
was like, first of all, you should for sure do
this because this is something you want to do, and
it's like on your list, you know what I mean,
(03:25):
Like go for it, and like you don't need anybody's permission,
and if people don't want to come, they won't come.
And if you make one, you know, like I was
telling her that I did a show. I was playing
bass with a good friend of mine who put on
like his first concert of his own original music, and
he didn't have any goals other than just like sharing
his music at least for starters, and you know, maybe
(03:47):
who knows what was going to come after that, but
just to do that first show was valid and it's
like a chance to express yourself. And even if it's
just friends and family that show up, that's still something
that if they show up, they want to show up
for you. So there's like no harm done. You don't
need permission from anyone, even if it's a flop, you know,
(04:07):
like sometimes you got to take those risks and do
those life goals that you want to do, and it's
totally okay and you can do it, Like I was
kind of like telling.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Her, and I wouldn't even argue that, like what would
be considered a flop in that sense. It's like if
she doesn't get picked up by exactly a label like okay,
that was ever the goal, if she doesn't sell a
whole bunch of tickets for it, even if she like
you know, there's a technical difficulties and she starts to
say half hour late, but like it's all her friends there,
(04:35):
like it's very unlikely that just like random people are
going to show up, you know, especially if she does
it like more of a house show sort of situation,
you know, something that's lower pressure, Like there is no flop.
The only flop is if she doesn't do it.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, she has nothing to lose really, I mean, obviously
she's talented enough to get on stage and sing her songs.
Even if she's not like a great musician, she could
play guitar well enough to accompany herself.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And she like you know, wants to bring.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
People up for a little bit other people, but you're
definitely like good enough to do that and people are
not going to walk out and like say, oh, how
I think more it was less about like what other
people thought about the performance and more about what other
people thought about her doing something that she maybe felt
was you know, like selfish, you know, to like do
something to like promote yourself just because you know, and
(05:22):
she didn't feel like that was valid. And I was saying, like, no,
like we do all kinds of stuff for ourselves so
that we feel valid. And that's like I don't know,
different people have different Like it's not my thing, but
people go shopping just to feel like, you know, a person,
you know what I mean, Like, there's all kinds of
ways that people do that, and that's still valid. Even
if you think it's self indulgent, it's still valid, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Like, Yeah, and I would make the argument to you that, like, yes,
we live in a society where people are judgmental, especially
online anyway, right, or at least more they're.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
More vocal about it all mostly online.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Yeah, it's more it's more noticeable online, but.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
It's more polarized, mind, that's for Sureyes, Yes, and I.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Think for those artists that are you know, they're worried
about are people going to think that it is self
indulgent that I'm doing a show. I feel like there
are probably a lot of people, a lot of creatives especially,
that have that sort of feeling, this like fear of
not their music being judged, but like their actions and
their motivations being judged, when in reality, I feel like
(06:22):
it's such a not gonna happen thing, you know, Like
I don't know, like I feel I feel like if
somebody does judge her or think that like, oh, she's
being self indulgent for.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Doing this show, like that's them thing.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, you know, unless it is something where I don't know,
I'm trying to imagine like a a sitcom or a
cartoon where this would happen. Then it would be so
over the top and it would be like oh, renting
out billboards and skywriters and like yeah, you know, like
some some something crazy and ridiculous that over the top.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Like that's like that, It's like that movie The Room.
It's like that, you know, talking about Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Like I've actually never seen it, but yeah, I know,
I know, I know you're talking about it.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
I've heard enough about it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Didn't know exactly what you mean, but I think but
that's like we expect if we take a little chance,
if we get a little bit outside of our comfort zone.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
We think that people are going.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
To react as if we were doing some ridiculous, you know,
over the top show body thing. You know, I would say,
if we're going to tie this into other studio pros,
like other engineers producers. I feel like that's why so
many people are so hesitant to get on social media.
It has it tend to like promote their business and
(07:31):
like talk about the work that they're doing and talk
about the projects they're working on, because they feel like
the second that they go on social media, everyone's going
to think that they're cringey. And it's like you're only
going to be cringey if you do cringey shit. That's
kind of the whatever look at it, And like people
are only going to judge her for being like self
(07:52):
indulgent if she actually does it self indulgently.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
I think that's the word.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I think she'd have to jump through a lot of
hoops to make it like that, you know what I mean.
And I think it's a really good point of like
if you want to do something impactful, whether it's for
yourself or for other people, you kind of sometimes have
to take a risk and get out of a comfort zone,
which could be something like just fear of what other
people think about you. And I'm not saying I'm great
at this because I am afraid of what other people
(08:19):
think of me, but gotten better at it.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
You know what, it depends on which arena.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
There are some arenas where I just don't give a
given f and there there are arenas where where I do.
But if you want to be impactful, sometimes you have
to just like do your thing no matter what and
not care what other people think. Well, I was talking
to one of the guys that's making this mindfulness AP
I've been working on, and he would say, now that
it's live, people are taking it seriously. All these people,
(08:43):
all these contributors that were like wishy washy with him,
are say, oh you know what, Oh it's it's it's live.
All of a sudden they want to like be a
part of it. And now that they see that, like
he's done the actual work, they're not like judgmental of
like this maybe thing. They're like, oh, let's do like oh, Wow,
they feel I don't want to say envy, but they
go from being skeptical and maybe making fun of it
(09:03):
in a little bit in their heads, to being, oh,
I want to be a part of this now, you know.
And I've found there were times in my journey where
once I did something and I didn't think too much
about it. But if I like, I think a lot
of people are afraid of doing things. So for me,
when I actually started this wedding band back in the day,
people were skeptical until we had weddings booked, and then
(09:23):
once we had weddings books, people were like jealous that
we had actually done a thing and made a thing happen,
you know what I mean. Like, I think people were
judgmental of me when I said I wanted to get
into you know, music production, and like, once I had
a studio, I was like, oh, okay, you know. And
then and then people take you seriously and they go
from like being like, oh, who is this guy? To
all of a sudden, You're like a magnet. And so
(09:44):
when you actually execute on the thing that you think
is crazy, it does the opposite effect. Instead of you
being concerned that other people are judging you, and maybe
they are judging you, but you actually execute on it,
people are like Okay, you know, hats off, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Like with the the artist talk about like the people
that she thought would be judgmental are probably going to
be like really excited and supportive. And like think that
she's so brave for doing this because it's not, like
it isn't a career choice, and this is something that
she's doing just for the sake of wanting to share
her art, and like that is a very brave thing
to do. Like I feel like for us and you know,
(10:19):
the listeners, like sharing our creative works is like so
second nature to us that it's sometimes hard to take
a step back and realize that for like, you know,
normal people, what else to call them, Like for most
of the world, like that is a terrifying concept, you know.
And I think once she actually does the performance, I
(10:39):
feel like there, I don't think they're ever going to
see it how she thinks they're going to see it.
They're going to either not know about it at all
because she doesn't say anything about.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
It, or they're going to be impressed.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
The impressed and inspired probably too. Yeah, And I think,
you know, back to the idea of like the magnet,
like once something clicks, people start kind of coming back
to you. I feel like we hear that sort of
tail as old as time with artists and with people
that win the lottery, you know what I mean. It's
kind of like as soon as somebody wins the lottery,
all of like all of like the fourth cousins come out.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Of the woodwork, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Or like when an artist like blows up, like all
the all the friends from high school that were like
you know, always like shit talking them suddenly or like
trying to post as many old photos together like oh yeah,
I've known I've known them since way back.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
When, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And then they get pissy when you know the artist
wants something to do with them because there was they
had nothing to do with them before, you know, and
it's it's this this weird mindset where like yeah, like
they're going to beat you down until you're successful, and
then they're going to act as if they were supporting
you the whole time. Now that's a bit like more jaded,
I think than the situation that your artist is in.
(11:51):
And maybe it's just like not as big of a
scale obviously, because I feel like she's not expecting this
one solo show to get her on the super Have
time or anything. But Yeah, but I think it's something
that we all experience in different ways, whether it's you know,
sharing our creative art or starting a business or asking
somebody out on a date. It happens all the time.
(12:14):
And I think as soon as we can start to
try to rationalize with ourselves that, you know, worst case scenario,
the other person's going to forget about this in like
a week.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Best case scenario you had like a peak life moment,
you know.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Something you'll remember forever. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
One of the things I've noticed over the past twenty
years being in the industry is that audio school usually
leaves most graduates completely unprepared for entering the industry. I mean, sure,
you learn how to rewire a patch bay or sleep,
but they probably won't teach you how to stand out
and attract the kinds of artists that fuel your passion
for recording. I appreciate what you bring to the table,
let alone pay their rates. You want to get paid,
(12:49):
and YouTube university is full of people telling you that
their way is the right way, and it doesn't help
you apply things to your unique struggles, personality and ideal clients.
So I've been building studio land fill those gaps. We
use structured learning paths, weekly live classes in a private
community of other pros to help you discover how to
turn your technical expertise into a thriving business that attracts
(13:09):
the right clients at the right rates. Try it out
for free the links in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Also, a big takeaway is like doing that scary thing,
working hard to do something and to finish it is
always better than to just be scared and not try,
you know. And so whether you're an artist thinking about
performing or making that song, or trying to make a business,
and even if you fail, like there's like a fear
(13:36):
of failure that I think is going back to relationships.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I was talking with some friends of mine.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like the fear of things that could go wrong in
a relationship preventing you from moving forward in a relationship,
I think is something that stops a lot of people
from forming deeper romantic relationships. But if you don't try,
you'll never know and it might flap, of course, it
might flap, like any relationship could flop. But if you
don't try, then you'll then you'll never know. If you're
too afraid of like the consequences, you're also missing out
on the positives of taking leaps and committing to things
(14:02):
and like finishing things, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And I would say, you know, I'm trying to like
tie this in for the you know, producers and engineers
listening and like, yeah, I know, I love the balance
for finding. But I think you know, that's kind of
a thing that we all go through, not just when
we first decide to say, you know what, I think
I'm going to start charging for this. You know, there's
(14:25):
that huge sense of like, oh, is somebody gonna think,
you know, what are they going to think when I
start asking people for money to record them or to
mix them or whatever. I feel like we've all had
that sense of just like that intimidation of saying a
price for the first time, but that I would argue
that that it rears its ugly head throughout your career
as well. And even when you get to a point
(14:46):
where you're like, okay, well I've been charging, pulling a
number out of my butt, like I've been charging, you know,
four hundred dollars a mix, and inflation is going up.
These are harder and like I really should be charging
more than this, but like I'm terrified to just say hundred.
I'm terrified to say six hundred whatever, you know, whatever
the number is. And it's like that feeling of I'm
(15:07):
gonna scare them away? What are they gonna think of me?
Are they gonna think that I'm like too big for
my breeches? You know, like all these things, and then
we talk ourselves out of ever taking that step until
you know, next thing, you know, you've been professionally doing
it for like ten years and still charging two hundred
fifty bucks for a mix, you know, and it's not
(15:27):
because your skills haven't gotten any better. It's just because
you haven't taken the leap of doing what it's gonna
sound way flufy, but like doing what your heart knows
it really should be doing, which is, you know, seeing
yourself as having more value. Then you've been allowing yourself
to see and talking yourself down thinking that people are
going to judge you because you're you're raising your rates
(15:50):
or because you're charging now instead of doing it for free.
So I think it's something that is not just for
non creatives, and it's not just for people that are
doing something new for the first time. I think this
kind of comes back in cycles and hits us in
different ways.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
It's like going back to this like the fear of commitment,
the fear of doing the wrong thing almost and just
like making a move and knowing that if you stick
to your guns, the worst case scenarios is the flop,
but the best case scenario is like you're in a
better place for it.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, and usually like the potential upside far exceeds the potential.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Down exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
It's a calculated risk.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Another takeaway from like mixing engineers maybe, and it could
also be for producers. Honestly, it's just like making bold
choices with whether it's the mix or the production and
not just playing safe just because you feel like they'll
approve a safe thing. Always there is what to be
said about like what you usually do and what people expect.
But sometimes a mix needs something bold, or production needs
(16:54):
something that you've never really done before. But you feel
like you can do something new and exciting and different
and make the move, and worst case scenario you just
you can revert back to what you.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Might usually do.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Best case scenario is you've opened a new pathway of
creativity and like you know, new directions and that's always
fun and inspiring. So you know, you have permission to
do the bold things sometimes and hopefully it'll go well,
but you can always walk it back.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
If it's not working.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, there's very few things that are like unfixable even
with our careers, you know, like not not even just
like in the micro of like a mixed decision or
a production decision. But like even with our careers, is
like very few like well intended things. I'll say that,
like obviously, yeah you could, like really if you're like
a total asshole, like yeah you can.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
You can. You can mess some things up.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
But I guess I'm saying with things that we aspire
to do, things that we have a dream of doing,
there's very very very rarely like a worst case scenario
that's actually that bad.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I say this all the time for when people are
doing outreach, right when they're doing CALT outreach, when they
there's a band they really want to work with, they
want to like they'd love to just like get to
know this band or artists, and if it makes sense
to work together, that would be amazing. But like I
hears all the time, they tell themselves that the artist
isn't gonna care. They tell themselves that they're not going
(18:13):
to respond to the message. They're gonna tell themselves that
they already have somebody else doing it or a great job,
and why do they want to work with me? Tell
themselves all of these different reasons why the artist is
gonna say no, and literally every single one of them
is an assumption, you know, like they're assuming all of
these things. They're assuming that the artist is not gonna
not gonna answer. They're assuming that the artist is even
happy with the project that you were listening to. You're
(18:36):
assuming that they had a great time with that producer
or a great time with that engineer. You're assuming the budget,
you know, for working with a really really top name
engineer is going to always be there. You know, maybe
it's not. You're also assuming that they want to go
in that same direction. You're assuming that they do it
all themselves. You're assuming that they have their team, like
whatever those assumptions are, like, you're never going to know
(18:58):
the actual answer until you talk to them. And I
always say that the worst case scenario when you reach
out to somebody, this could be with reach out to
artists or I mean, I've never been on dating apps,
so I obviously gonna be some nuances that I probably
don't I don't understand. But I feel like in general,
it's like if we send a message to somebody, and
(19:19):
if we send it thoughtfully with intention and it's like
personalized and it's genuine and it's authentically us, the worst
case scenario is that they're not going to actually even
see it. That's the worst case scenario. Other scenarios could
be that they see it and then they just don't respond,
(19:39):
and you don't know if it's because they hate you
or because they just forgot to respond, or they saw
it and thought, oh, I'm gonna respond to this later,
and they did it, and then you can always follow up.
But all the time, maybe they could respond and say, hey,
I really appreciate thanks so much for.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
All of that.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
We already have somebody that we're working with, so like,
you know, not interested, but like in mind for the
future or whatever. Okay, So basically it goes nowhere, but okay,
not the worst thing. And I would say a good
response would be if they're offended and really mean to you,
and I say that that would be a good response
(20:15):
because you're seeing what they're like as people right away,
and you're realizing, oh, this is a bullet that I
am dodging right now.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So, like even the like offended, like sc scariest reaction
is actually probably the single most informative. Like I said, like,
the worst case scenario is that they don't see it
at all, or maybe they see it and they just
don't respond and then they forget about you. That's the
worst case scenario and the example that I always use,
and I'll put you on the spot, Ben, So do
(20:46):
you remember the face of the grocery store clerk that
checked you out last time you went to the grocery store?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Kind of but not not really, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
You remember their name?
Speaker 5 (20:57):
No, they don't wear name tags here, Okay, okay, So
you're yeah, does that mean that you think that they're
like some sort of like lesser a person?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Does that does that mean that you hate them? That
you you're gonna remember this horrible interaction forever.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It was just a moment in my life, in my day,
in my life that.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, it just it just wasn't like a brief It
was a brief interaction that it just wasn't emotionally significant
enough to lodge into your memory. Now, maybe if you
go to the same grocery store and.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
That's kind of problem here, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Or maybe I be like gas station or something. I
mean it's something you go to less frequently, but like,
but once you're starting with that regularly, you'll start to
like you probably still like recognize the people at the
grocery store or at Target or whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
So it's again it's it's not because you have anything
against them and that you were rude for even talking
to them.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
It's just they just didn't lodge in their memory. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
So, Like there's all of these assumptions that we make
that are stopping us from taking that step. They're stopping
us from doing that solo show, that are stopping us
from sending that message or stopping us from making that
bold move. It's all based on assumptions about other people,
and we're letting that dictate our actions rather than looking
(22:19):
at ourselves and saying, I really want to like that's
something that I have aspired to. Yeah, I want to
do that. I'm going to give it a shot. If
it doesn't work out, that's okay, My self worth, my career,
my whole person is not going to be dictated by
the result of this thing that I do.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, exactly, And like it's the opposite if you think
people are judging you, if you do it, they're going
to be drawn to you, like we were talking about earlier,
and people are going to be jealous that you actually
put in the work and you actually did the thing
that was scary.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That's the reality of it. You're afraid that what.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
They're thinking and they're not thinking, But if you do it,
it's the other way around, right, then there are thinking
and they're impressed and jealous and they want to do that.
You know, the world is yours to do your thing.
You know, you don't need permission, and if you actually
are one of the few people that take chances, good
things will come from it.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
To add one thing to the jealousy comment, I would
rather have other people be jealous of the work that
I put in than me be jealous of the results
of somebody else.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Got Yeah, it's one of those like laws of the
universe that that's just the way it works, you know. Awesome, Well, Carl,
this is fun. Yeah, I think we did this. We
can put a ribbon on this episode.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
What do you what do you think?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I think I think we did this, Ben, Yes, that
was legally.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
And because we did this scary episode. Because we did
this scary episode, other people are jealous of us.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
It was It wasn't scary, Bed.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It's always fun with you, Carl. No, it's never scary
with you. It's just like friends chatting. So yeah, anyway,
and now the signal is clipped.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
So was this was awesome?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
And this for letting me call the audible there and
change the topic on you without telling you.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, that was so scary, a little bit scary.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I wasn't thinking about it at the time, but I
was feeling like that was the right move. That was
a thing to talk about first today. And I just
fun with it and I you know, it didn't blow
up in.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
My face, and we went with it and that was
good and it was great.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
And you're great.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, and you're great, Carl. And I will see you're
looking at your beard.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Oh yeah, well, and I will. I will see you
next time.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Ben, I'll see you in a little bit.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Okay, Bye, Bet, Bye, Carl.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as we did.
If anything here resonated with you, please share this or
your favorite episode with a friend.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
And as always, we love to hear from our listeners,
so find us on social media at Secret Sonics.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
At Ben Wallace Music, and at Carl Bonner.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Until next time, Bye Ben.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Bye Carl.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
That was good.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I think the octro was great.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com