April 29, 2025 • 27 mins
In this "nerdy episode," Carl and Ben dive into a topic that affects many producers but rarely gets attention: updating your mixing templates. They explore how these living documents should evolve alongside your workflow, highlighting how small adjustments can lead to significant time savings and creative benefits.
Discover:
Ben and Carl's Weekly Inspiration Playlist - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1IpnxDVoTY44JBV1j19H4h?si=0f80e020d8ae497e
LA Wildfire Relief:
Musicares - https://donor.musicares.org/page/lafirerelief
WAMTN - https://give.wearemovingtheneedle.org/campaign/654724/donate
Learn more about StudioLand - https://www.welcometostudioland.com/a/2147995182/bmyFf8p5
Download our free guide: "The Future-Proof Mixing Engineer: 8 Essential Skills for 2024 and Beyond" - https://mpe-ebook.benwallick.com/future-proof-mixing
Connect with us:
Secret Sonics - https://www.instagram.com/secretsonics
Ben - https://www.instagram.com/benwallickmusic/
Carl - https://www.instagram.com/carlbahner/
Learn more:
https://www.benwallick.com/
https://www.carlbahner.com/
This episode with edited by Gavi Kutliroff - https://www.instagram.com/pleasant_peasant_music/
Discover:
- Why templates should evolve rather than remain static for years
- How to recognize when you're repeatedly making the same changes
- Why it's so easy to postpone template maintenance despite its benefits
- Finding balance between template efficiency and creative flexibility
- The dangers of adding new plugins to templates before properly evaluating them
- Specific examples of template updates they've found valuable in their own work
Ben and Carl's Weekly Inspiration Playlist - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1IpnxDVoTY44JBV1j19H4h?si=0f80e020d8ae497e
LA Wildfire Relief:
Musicares - https://donor.musicares.org/page/lafirerelief
WAMTN - https://give.wearemovingtheneedle.org/campaign/654724/donate
Learn more about StudioLand - https://www.welcometostudioland.com/a/2147995182/bmyFf8p5
Download our free guide: "The Future-Proof Mixing Engineer: 8 Essential Skills for 2024 and Beyond" - https://mpe-ebook.benwallick.com/future-proof-mixing
Connect with us:
Secret Sonics - https://www.instagram.com/secretsonics
Ben - https://www.instagram.com/benwallickmusic/
Carl - https://www.instagram.com/carlbahner/
Learn more:
https://www.benwallick.com/
https://www.carlbahner.com/
This episode with edited by Gavi Kutliroff - https://www.instagram.com/pleasant_peasant_music/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I have to say, Carl, like the last bunch of
episodes we've done, I've been really thought provoking for me,
and I've like been more inspired than usual. I'm feeling
juices are coming back, so let's hope they they stay
coming back.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Yeah, I'm that's great to hear, because every time I
talk to you, I just want to quit music and
jump in front of the bus.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Wow, I'm kidding. I love you. Ben. Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm Ben and I'm Carl, and you're listening to Secret
Sonics honest conversations chock full of tactical advice to help
you build your dream career in music and audio.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Whether it's skill development, mixing mindsets, personal branding, or work
life balance. We talk about ways to help set yourself
up for success in the ever changing music industry.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Let's get started.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hi, Ben, Hi Carl, We're back.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
We're back. What better than ever?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Was that supposed to be like an accent of some sort?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
No, okay, it was just stupid.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It was just stupid with my trustee Secret Sonics mug
that my wife got me for my birthday.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
So yeah, I like the fade at the bottom. That's nice.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It is cool, right, Yeah, Yeah, I actually have one
for you, Carl, speaking of our hospitality episode, but I
have to send it back with somebody who's flying in
the States at some point, so it's coming your way eventually.
I have it on my cabinet, but I have to
find someone who's flying back to the States who can
call it. But it'll happen. Yeah, you're so welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
All right.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So now this episode is going to be nerdy because
we haven't done one in a little while, and I.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Have just getting my glasses a little bit closer to
my face.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
A little closer to your face up or should they
be down further off your nose that's more.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Wow, you look so grandfatherly. Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Wow, I'm just a step away from being a grandfather,
I mean, because I'm a father, So it's just like
one more step hypothetically, I guess, but it should be
very many years from now.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So okay, wow, it's late night where Ben is right now?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Okay, but not I was trying to cover for you.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So this episode, this topic, this is something that I've
been thinking about a lot yesterday actually, and I was
kind of annoyed with myself when I had the realization.
So something that I always firmly believe is that my
website and my portfolio are living breathing organisms that I'm
always tweaking and adding to and adjusting, And like, I
(02:28):
don't have the approach of oh, I read it's on
my website, and then I forget about it for five years.
And then I totally read it on my website, and
then I forget about it for five years. Like I'm
always like a couple times a week, I'm like making
a little like one percent change. The reason I'm annoyed
with myself is because I realized yesterday I have been
using essentially the same mixed template for about two or
(02:51):
three years now. Now my mix template is almost entirely
just for routing.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Like I don't.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's not a lot of like plugins that I use,
But I do have a couple of things that I
tend to use pretty often. So for example, on all
of my drum tracks, I have the like utility gain
plug in that I can flip the phase of the
track it's bypassed. But then that way, every time that
I look up a session, I just have to go boop.
(03:19):
I could you know, phase flip things and check the
phase of stuff. Probably nineteen times out of twenty that
I'm going to use a EQ, it's probably going to
be pro Q three, So I have an instance of
pro q three on every track. There's it's not doing
anything like the actual plugins bypass when you open it up,
it's just like the default blank thing, but something that
(03:39):
I use all the time. So it's just saving from
having to dig through, you know, some plugin folders.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
So I think that's why.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I've been able to get away with not really updating
it very much over the past couple of years. But
then I realized there were things that I was constantly
swapping out in actual mixes and not even really about it,
and I wanted to talk about talk about for myself
the things that I want to change about my template,
(04:06):
but with the purpose of getting you Ben and also
the listener, just start thinking about, Okay, if they're a
templess that I'm using pretty regularly, are there things that
I find myself changing very often, and maybe it is
a time to just update the template, which is something
that is like not fun to do, it's not sexy
to do, and it's usually something that only happens when
(04:30):
you have laundry to do, when you just don't want
to do the laundry or something like that, Like it's
an activity that is.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Like it's like, oh shit, I need to update this,
but I gotta get started with this mix. So let's
I'll do it next time every single time for two years.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It's easy to put off and like I nine to
nine percent of the time, nine to nine point nine
nine nine percent of the time. I also agree, like, yeah,
that is so low on the to do list, But
I feel like it's good every once in a while
to at least just do a little self analysis and say, like, okay,
rather than going in and changing this all the time,
Like are there any things that I started doing in
the past year or two that are consistent enough that
(05:06):
I really should just open the template, put those things in.
It'll take me fifteen minutes, save as new template, boom,
and then.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I can forget about it.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So I have a couple of things that I've been
doing lately that I have been having really good luck with.
But I don't want to necessarily get two in the
weeds about like the specific things and more about the
concept of this, like self awareness, reanalyzing our own workflow
to see if there are ways that we can make
it well.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Maybe you could give like an example, one example to
illustrate it.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Okay, for a good example would be I found on
my kickbus and my snare bus and my vocal bus,
like my main main vocal bus, I have a limitter
on each of those, and they're not actually doing much
of anything. I just have like the threshold and the
output ceiling at negative eight, and the number doesn't matter.
(06:02):
It's just based on like how I gain stage things
and like how I like how they sound, and like
basically what I can do is I can get my
whole mix going without even looking at any of those things.
And when I go and I like open up that
plug in, it's doing like a half a dB of
reduction on like the loud stuff. Like these are not
like working hard, They're just like my kind of like
(06:22):
some safety nets, especially when I'm working on projects that
have really dense vocal sections, and all of a sudden,
when all the when all the big harmonies and doubles
and things come in, I don't want it to completely
change the balance of my like mixedpust compression. So this
just helps me to kind of like keep the keep
the peaks at a predictable rate. It works for me.
(06:45):
The point of this is not to tell you to
do what I do. But what I realized is that
I had ozone eight and I really liked their limitter,
and then I got ozone nine, and then I got
ozone ten, and then now I have ozone eleven. But
on my template, I still have ozone eight for those
things and like that limit, that limitter, and like the algorithms,
(07:07):
and like the way that the options and the way
that it sounds on like the new maximizer on ozone
eleven is so good. And I realized, like I end
up going back in and like changing it out like
almost every time, and I didn't realize, like, oh, no shit, Carl,
you should just like fix it in your template.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
So it's like things like that, and like some of.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
The I'm gonna gonna change the term from no shit
Sherlock to no shit Carl. Yeah, Like it's like it's good,
it's good, that's yeah, your name works well for that.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
It's deserved.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
But even more commonly, like I have some of the
RX plugins, like the RX like mouth DEI click and
like the deep breath and like Deplosive and like some
of those on vocal tracks again like bypass when I
open it up, but it's there because I'm probably gonna
use it, or at least I'm probably gonna at least
try it on every vocal check to see if it
is needed and if it helps. And those are all
(07:56):
like old versions of RX that yeah, I mean I
still but like I have newer stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I have the same thing, but like in like when
I do like podcasts, I have like RX eight as
like my it's not in the template, but like you
know how logic allows you to have like favorite plugins
and so it's like it's RX eight foisty noise or
whatever instead of RX ten, which is the one I'm
currently up to. But like the truth is, I don't
use favor plugins so much because I have the plug search.
I don't know if you ever got the plug search.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I didn't. You have to get it, Carl, I have
to get I use so I use so few.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Dude, trust me best, Like I don't know twenty thirty
bucks they'll ever spend.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Okay, it's not a sponsor, not a sponsored.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Not not sponsored, but hey, if they want to talk
to us.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Just kidding, no, not just kidding, that'd be great. You
don't just kidding.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
That could be plug search chances we're waiting for you
to call us and waiting.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
For our people. But that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It's like, And when I go to add that manually,
if I go to add like a mouth you click manually,
I'm always using the newest version.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
So it's not like exactly, It's not like I know.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I've heard people talk about like different versions of auto
two and kind of having like different sounds, So like
you prefer different versions of autotune depending on like the
texture that it gives, and like for this, this is
not bad. It's not like, oh, I prefer the texture
of RX deep breath or breath control or whatever they
call it, eight versus like nine or ten or whatever
(09:18):
we're on. It's it's just there, and I never think
to actually change it.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
It's an artifact from a previous time.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, an artifact that is designed to help get rid
of artifacts.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Was that an intentional pun? No? RX?
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Okay, but it was great, great call What about you?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Are there any that you feel like you should just
like spend the three minutes and.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Just yeah fix it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Absolutely, I mean the thing I'm thinking about is saturation.
I've been a big fan of the black Box HG
two plug in as a saturator, and it is actually
on my template still on the stereo bus, which I
sometimes do, especially if it's like a very minimal instrumentation
kind of thing, like a I don't a vocal, and
then you pop that out like sixteen percent or something
(10:03):
twenty percent, and then you get just enough richness without it,
you know, just blended in sounds so good. But when
you're doing a dense production, it's a bit crazy and
heavy handed to do that much saturation for everything the
same amount. So what I need to do is, you know,
there's like a certain amount that works better for like
drum and bass, and like less for vocals, you know,
(10:24):
less for guitars and stuff. So like there's like a
I should be putting them on those actual auxiliary buses,
Like the drum auxiliary bus should have like you know,
that saturator you know, at twenty percent, and obviously I'll
check and adjust it, but like as like a starting point,
you know, and vocals less and like have it kind
of separate that stuff out so that like it's not
(10:45):
just overload and overkill and I have never made that change,
but every time I do a new mix, I do that.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
So it's stuff like that, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yes, it's funny you mentioned the black box because I
just started using that.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I must have bought it a while ago.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It was on sale or something, and I got it
and everyone was talking to me about how great it was,
and I just never used it. And then maybe the
past couple of weeks I've been using it a lot.
But I think I'm still I'm hesitant to put that
on my template because I'm still at the point of
that and I feel like we all go through this
like honeymoon stage of a new plug in, where we're
just so excited by like all the the way it
(11:21):
makes things different, that we haven't quite been able to
be objective with it enough to be like, okay, is
this man get better?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
You know?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And I feel like if I put it into my
template too soon, even if it's like bypassed and not there, like,
I feel like it's going to be too tempting for
me to.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Try it too soon rather than what I found for myself.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
The way that I like to use it is like
getting the same thing with like any kind of like
limit or my my mix bus where it's like I
want to get this to sound as good and as
rich and as full and as slamming as I can
before I do that, and then it's just like icing
on the cake or it's way too much and I
don't use it. But it's like I I like waiting
until I'm happy before I kind of like remember, oh
(12:05):
there are still things I can like add that extra
two percent spice, but I've been doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
The way that you're talking.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
About the black box is sort of like a sound
like mixing into it just makes a lot of other
things very like easier, you know, because it'll just give
you your drum and bass sort of that like depth
that you're like looking for, and you'll just have to
do less work on the mixed bus. So yeah, I
like there's pluses and minuses to both approaches. Right, You
could do the thing that you know is going to
do something that you like and then save yourself time
(12:34):
in the individual channels, or you could do the the
individual channel work and then you might have less to
do on the stage on that either the auxiliary bus
or the stereo bus, depending on what you're doing, they're
both valid and you how to try try them both
for yourself.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
You know, see what works for you.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Minimum will probably like my first step to deciding to
add something to a template is before I add it
to a template, I'll make my own custom default so
that it's like, Okay, this is the sound that like,
like I know, for myself, I use the even tied
omnipresser all the time in dual mono mode with the
(13:11):
this is my little my little secret forgetting your sides
to feel exciting without dealing with weird imaging face shit,
even tied omnipresser in dual mono mode with the gentle
comp setting, but the mix at fourteen percent and gain
stage to peak at around negative twelve before it goes in.
(13:34):
That is just so you know, listeners of Secret Sonics,
that is the nerdiest and most specific. No, that's the
most specific I'm ever going to speak publicly about any Like.
That's a good thing that I do, because, like I get,
it's not about the specific setting. It's the fact that
like I found that that setting, I know what that
plugin does, and I know, like if I want that sound,
(13:57):
I put that on and I'm usually three seconds of
tweaking away from it being exactly what I needed, you know,
but it was just rather than start like just using
that as my user default, so that way, when I
open the plugin up, those are my settings right away,
even if I'm going to change them. It's the same
thing as like having pro q three on my mixed bus,
(14:18):
even if it's bypassed, Like just saving me this step
of having to like go through plugin folders having to
remember what the name of the preset is like when
we're you know, like I it just saves that trouble.
And then there are some some of my buses that
I probably should just have that on by default and bypassed.
And now that I'm thinking about out loud, I think
(14:40):
I know my snare a lot with the attack all
the way down because it has a really really really
fast attack. So it helps you to get like all
like the body and like the size of the drum
without just adding too much of like the tickness. And
especially when I'm I'm doing a lot of pop adjacent stuff,
so there's a lot of like electronic drums and live
drums together, like it could very easily get too too transienty,
(15:04):
like uncomfortably transiency.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, wow, this is like, yeah, this feels weird being.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Getting we're getting deep deep nerd.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I don't I don't usually do this, like on camera especially.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
And sometimes it's good to do this on camera, Carl,
I know.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
But like also people are people don't care. People will
be able to know. Maybe they're like, oh that's interesting.
They're not going to open up. No one's gonna get omnipressor.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
It's just that someone is Carl, and that person is me.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, okay, okay, Carl, okay, okay, I probably should do it.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
One of the things I've noticed over the past twenty
years being in the industry is that audio school usually
leaves most graduates completely unprepared for entering the industry. I mean, sure,
you learn how to rewire a patch, bait or sleep,
but they probably won't teach you how to stand out
and attract the kinds of artists that fuel your passion
for recording. I appreciate what you bring to the table,
let alone pay their rates. You want to get paid,
(15:54):
and YouTube university is full of people telling you that
their way is the right way, and it doesn't help
you apply things to your unique struggles, personality and ideal clients.
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(16:14):
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Speaker 3 (16:17):
Try it out for free the links in the show notes.
So what else?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
What are some other things that you feel like you
should be that you've noticed about your own workflow that
would just get a little bit faster if you just
like figure.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, I do like a lot of I do have
like presets that I do like like I have like
chains that I do in logic that I don't necessarily
like keep in the template. I'll just like click, you know,
because I have like some drum presets or whatever I'm
thinking about, like the sense.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I think I don't know if it was you.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Maybe it was you with some of you already have
the sense sort of demarketed for, like the vocal bus,
and that's something that I still haven't done. Like I'll
just like go in, I'll choose the you know, I'll
choose the auxiliary for the effects I want to I
want to send it to and then I'll just send it,
but having had already preloaded, so you just have to
like drag it would probably save me a few seconds
(17:04):
every time. That's something that I think I've thought about
and I haven't done yet.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, and that's something like one of the things that
I got the first version of my template, which has
gone it has undergone many many reconstructive surgeries over the
past years. I got it from Andrew Maray, friend of
the show.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
He produced my old band's EP, like twenty sixteen or something,
and we hit it.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Off right away.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I referred to him for a long time as my
remix pimp because he would introduce me to a bunch
of bands he was working with to do remixes for them.
But he he sent me his logic template years and
years ago, and I kind of walked me through the
thought process behind all of it, and it was it
was great. Obviously, like I had very different plugins in him,
of a very different like, you know, approach than him,
(17:51):
but conceptually knowing that it was all about like routing
and just like making everything that you need at your
fingertips so that way you can just you can be
pulled out of the creative flow less often for shorter
amounts of time, instead of going through like drop down
menus and stuff. But he has it that like for
my vocals, like there are four different reverbs and four
(18:16):
different like delays that are all just very drastically different,
like everything from like a like a sixteenth note with
no feedback to like a crazy long like crystally like
atmospheric thing. And the purpose is not to just use
the exact same reverbs every time. The purpose is that
if I think to myself, oh, I need like a
(18:37):
I think a plate would work with this. I already
have a plate routed. I can just go proop, turn
up that box end and hear what a plate would
sound like, and it'll either be eighty percent of the
way to what I want or it'll be instantly confirming
that Nope, a plate is not the answer, and then
I can try something else. So it's it's labeling me
(18:57):
to have all the spices like ready on the kitchen counter.
You know, everything's like right there, ready to go. Right.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
You don't have to open the drawer to get the spice.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
That's the real difference.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Get it out, And yeah, I think that it's so
it saves so much time because I can just like
quick try and especially for pads and some things that
are that are just like textural super in the background,
Like it stops me from going down rabbit holes trying
to find like the perfect reverb sound for this one
thing that is like literally only felt not hurt, and
(19:29):
like no one's ever going to notice it, and like
the changes, like the difference in like adjusting the pre
delay time and like not not going to make any
kind of noticeable difference. So it also saves me time,
and I don't go down rabbit holes on things that
aren't important, so I keep my focus on the stuff
that actually is going to make the bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, I actually I have like a lot of reverbs
and delays in my template. Well not a lot, but
I have like very select ones that I know will
work for certain things. And I'm big into blending different
real verbs and stuff like That's a big part of
what I do. Like a little haul, a little plate,
a little delay combination will get you a long way.
But I think I need more reverbs and more delays
(20:10):
in my templates. Even though I have like probably five
reverbs and three delays or something. I think I need
a few more. I need to start experimenting more with
my reverb. I have reverbs at work and are so
trusted that they always work. I don't have to like
do other things. But sometimes I get I'm like getting
a little bored of my reverbs, you know what I mean.
I kind of want to add a little bit more
spice to my template. So that involves I mean it
(20:32):
could just be in a specific song, I find something
and then saving it as a preset and then adding
that preset to the template so that it's a new
interesting reverb spice so that it's definitely something that I
don't do enough of because I'll always make like a
new reverb pretty much always make a new reverb for
a specific song. But then I don't like save it
(20:55):
and add it to like the list, because often I'm
going to the go tos, you know what I'm saying,
Like more times than not, like I'll use like the
manny American hall or the little plate plate reverb or whatever,
or the valhalla, but like it's fun to save those
and then come back to them again, Like, oh, I
had that cool thing that I used that one time.
It was like a springy thing. Where is it so
(21:16):
like I need to be better at you know, saving
these presets, yeah, and then popping them in the template.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
And I think the thing that, you know, if there's
anybody listening thinking, I can't believe you want to use
a preset on the different song. Sometimes it works, and
also you can always tweak it, like it's not an
all or nothing, black and white option, Like you can
use it as a starting point and then adjust it
to fit the specifics of the new song.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
But for sure, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
They are definitely some purists that are gonna be real
cranky about this, but whatever, let them take six hours
on a mix.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah, just like to validate you, like, when a very
specific reverb or effect is needed, you're gonna make that
sound anyways, and more times than not, it's not needed
and it does not affect the quality of the song
at all, you know, Like I'm with you. I don't
know if I have any other examples. I feel like
there's probably like some chains that I could just like
(22:07):
have more often and bypassed. But I'm mostly happy with
my template, except for a couple of things I said.
I think I need to work a little more on
like gain staging, but that's another topic for another another day.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think the last one that I can think of
right now is I've found myself again because I'm doing
a lot of Papa jacent stuff, a lot of blending
of electronic and live instruments, and I've found that I
don't have pro Q four yet.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
I still use pro Q three same here, by the way.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
But doing a dynamic shelf to tame like two or
three k and up on my Snare bus, on my
Tom's bus and on my Symbols bus and often on
my on my kickbus too, I found makes things feel
so much more in a pocket and and gelled because
(23:02):
I feel like again I'm getting sent. I'm very rarely
you know, mixing live recorded drums, as a lot of
it's either like electronic drums, like intentionally like electronic drums,
or sometimes it's like programmed live drums that are still
meant to sound bigger and larger than life. Like I'm
not doing like Folcan Americana stuff, you know, so obviously
(23:22):
probably wouldn't need to do that, probably wouldn't do the
opposite for a lot of like live tracked drums. But
I've found that especially when people are using electronic drum samples,
like they're so overhyped. There's like too much top, too
much bottom of just like all full range all the time.
And then I've found that that's been helping me to
kind of keep those spiky bits under control. And it helps,
(23:47):
I mean, especially if I'm gonna then put it into
the black box on my on my drum bus, it
ends up helping to make it and not feel as.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Saturated high contrast, high saturation, high insanity.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, it's like it helps you to feel the saturation
without like it being so obviously heard, which is usually
what I'm I'm trying to go for. You know, I
want to like cool, I want to sneak as much
grit as I can and without you noticing it. I
want to get like right up on the edge of
like how much depth and character can I get without
it being distracting, because I don't want it to be
(24:20):
distracting from the vocals.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Totally one hundred percent. Okay, awesome, Well this is cool.
I got a rap soon. But this is fun and
I and definitely thought provoking. And I have to say, Carl,
like the last bunch of episodes we've done, I've been
really thought provoking for me, and I've like been more
inspired than usual and been picking up instruments more than usual.
And I think it's thanks to my conversations with you
(24:43):
and uh awesome. Yeah, like the limitations, you know, limitation
creativity one has been good for me. Yeah, I'm I'm like, uh,
I'm feeling juices are coming back, so let's hope they
they stay coming back.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
That's great to hear, because every time I talk to you,
I just want to quit music and jump in front
of a bus.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Wow, I'm kidding. I love you, Ben, Ben, I love Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
You're awesome. I and I just have to I'm not
good at taking I'm not I'm not good.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I don't know your Yeah, I mean I'm terrible at it.
We're both horrible at at taking a couple of moments.
But but I'm just saying, like it's been, it's been good,
like I've been. Uh, I'm feeling like the inspo so awesome.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Go check out our inspiration playlist. We're not going to
talk about songs that we've added, but yeah, we've added more,
and each of us are are adding five songs a week,
so at least and then they'll be there for a
little bit and then they're gonna go away. So check
out our inspiration Spotify plylist and just join the community
of listeners who are being inspired by music that we
(25:43):
think is cool. And you know you don't have to,
but you can go check it out.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Such a great sales pitch.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Ben, You got to check out the Spotify playlist, I
mean whatever you know, like, it's definitely like curated by
Ben and Carl, so it's going to.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Be a total mix.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Can I try? Ben?
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yeah, go go.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
If you want to hear some music that you haven't
before and just something that is going to shake up
your perception of sound and reality, check out that playlist
and maybe there are some songs on there that you
have heard before and that you love and it's a
reminder that they affect you so deeply and so musically
and rekindle your appreciation for this song. So do we
(26:21):
expect you to love them all?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
No?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Do we expect you to want to listen to them
over and over and over again and they're your new
favorite artists? No, but yeah, we hope to shake things
up a little bit, absolutely, And to do that you
got to act quick because they're gonna go pretty soon.
So click that link, smash that subscribe button. I don't
know whatever they say, whatever they say on.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
The YouTube's weekly inspiration Yeah, but listen to Yeah, they'll
be there every time we upload. We upload ten songs
a week between the two of us. They're there for
five weeks. So that's that's how much time you have
to find out what me and Carl were listening to.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And you know why we chose five weeks. You know
why we chose five weeks.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Randomly, we picked an umber out of our ass, I mean,
empty songs.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
What we should do is pretend that it was like
some sort of like I don't know, mathematical Fibonacci sequence
and like it's like a like it's like lore from
a Tool album. Uh no, we just picked a number. Anyway,
that's enough. That's enough rambling. Go listen to it, Go
listen to the music. It's really fun and good and
bye Ben.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Bye Carl.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as we did.
If anything here resonated with you, please share this or
your favorite episode with a friend.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And as always, we love to hear from our listeners,
so find us on social media at Secret Sonics.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
At Ben Wallace Music, and at Carl Vonner.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Until next time, Bye Ben.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Bye Carl. That's good. I think the outro is great.
I have to say, Carl, like the last bunch of
episodes we've done, I've been really thought provoking for me,
and I've like been more inspired than usual. I'm feeling
juices are coming back, so let's hope they they stay
coming back.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Yeah, I'm that's great to hear, because every time I
talk to you, I just want to quit music and
jump in front of the bus.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Wow, I'm kidding. I love you. Ben. Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm Ben and I'm Carl, and you're listening to Secret
Sonics honest conversations chock full of tactical advice to help
you build your dream career in music and audio.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Whether it's skill development, mixing mindsets, personal branding, or work
life balance. We talk about ways to help set yourself
up for success in the ever changing music industry.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
Let's get started.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hi, Ben, Hi Carl, We're back.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
We're back. What better than ever?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Was that supposed to be like an accent of some sort?
Speaker 4 (00:54):
No, okay, it was just stupid.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It was just stupid with my trustee Secret Sonics mug
that my wife got me for my birthday.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
So yeah, I like the fade at the bottom. That's nice.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It is cool, right, Yeah, Yeah, I actually have one
for you, Carl, speaking of our hospitality episode, but I
have to send it back with somebody who's flying in
the States at some point, so it's coming your way eventually.
I have it on my cabinet, but I have to
find someone who's flying back to the States who can
call it. But it'll happen. Yeah, you're so welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
All right.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So now this episode is going to be nerdy because
we haven't done one in a little while, and I.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Have just getting my glasses a little bit closer to
my face.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
A little closer to your face up or should they
be down further off your nose that's more.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Wow, you look so grandfatherly. Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Wow, I'm just a step away from being a grandfather,
I mean, because I'm a father, So it's just like
one more step hypothetically, I guess, but it should be
very many years from now.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
So okay, wow, it's late night where Ben is right now?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Okay, but not I was trying to cover for you.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So this episode, this topic, this is something that I've
been thinking about a lot yesterday actually, and I was
kind of annoyed with myself when I had the realization.
So something that I always firmly believe is that my
website and my portfolio are living breathing organisms that I'm
always tweaking and adding to and adjusting, And like, I
(02:28):
don't have the approach of oh, I read it's on
my website, and then I forget about it for five years.
And then I totally read it on my website, and
then I forget about it for five years. Like I'm
always like a couple times a week, I'm like making
a little like one percent change. The reason I'm annoyed
with myself is because I realized yesterday I have been
using essentially the same mixed template for about two or
(02:51):
three years now. Now my mix template is almost entirely
just for routing.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Like I don't.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's not a lot of like plugins that I use,
But I do have a couple of things that I
tend to use pretty often. So for example, on all
of my drum tracks, I have the like utility gain
plug in that I can flip the phase of the
track it's bypassed. But then that way, every time that
I look up a session, I just have to go boop.
(03:19):
I could you know, phase flip things and check the
phase of stuff. Probably nineteen times out of twenty that
I'm going to use a EQ, it's probably going to
be pro Q three, So I have an instance of
pro q three on every track. There's it's not doing
anything like the actual plugins bypass when you open it up,
it's just like the default blank thing, but something that
(03:39):
I use all the time. So it's just saving from
having to dig through, you know, some plugin folders.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
So I think that's why.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I've been able to get away with not really updating
it very much over the past couple of years. But
then I realized there were things that I was constantly
swapping out in actual mixes and not even really about it,
and I wanted to talk about talk about for myself
the things that I want to change about my template,
(04:06):
but with the purpose of getting you Ben and also
the listener, just start thinking about, Okay, if they're a
templess that I'm using pretty regularly, are there things that
I find myself changing very often, and maybe it is
a time to just update the template, which is something
that is like not fun to do, it's not sexy
to do, and it's usually something that only happens when
(04:30):
you have laundry to do, when you just don't want
to do the laundry or something like that, Like it's
an activity that is.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Like it's like, oh shit, I need to update this,
but I gotta get started with this mix. So let's
I'll do it next time every single time for two years.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It's easy to put off and like I nine to
nine percent of the time, nine to nine point nine
nine nine percent of the time. I also agree, like, yeah,
that is so low on the to do list, But
I feel like it's good every once in a while
to at least just do a little self analysis and say, like, okay,
rather than going in and changing this all the time,
Like are there any things that I started doing in
the past year or two that are consistent enough that
(05:06):
I really should just open the template, put those things in.
It'll take me fifteen minutes, save as new template, boom,
and then.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
I can forget about it.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So I have a couple of things that I've been
doing lately that I have been having really good luck with.
But I don't want to necessarily get two in the
weeds about like the specific things and more about the
concept of this, like self awareness, reanalyzing our own workflow
to see if there are ways that we can make
it well.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Maybe you could give like an example, one example to
illustrate it.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Okay, for a good example would be I found on
my kickbus and my snare bus and my vocal bus,
like my main main vocal bus, I have a limitter
on each of those, and they're not actually doing much
of anything. I just have like the threshold and the
output ceiling at negative eight, and the number doesn't matter.
(06:02):
It's just based on like how I gain stage things
and like how I like how they sound, and like
basically what I can do is I can get my
whole mix going without even looking at any of those things.
And when I go and I like open up that
plug in, it's doing like a half a dB of
reduction on like the loud stuff. Like these are not
like working hard, They're just like my kind of like
(06:22):
some safety nets, especially when I'm working on projects that
have really dense vocal sections, and all of a sudden,
when all the when all the big harmonies and doubles
and things come in, I don't want it to completely
change the balance of my like mixedpust compression. So this
just helps me to kind of like keep the keep
the peaks at a predictable rate. It works for me.
(06:45):
The point of this is not to tell you to
do what I do. But what I realized is that
I had ozone eight and I really liked their limitter,
and then I got ozone nine, and then I got
ozone ten, and then now I have ozone eleven. But
on my template, I still have ozone eight for those
things and like that limit, that limitter, and like the algorithms,
(07:07):
and like the way that the options and the way
that it sounds on like the new maximizer on ozone
eleven is so good. And I realized, like I end
up going back in and like changing it out like
almost every time, and I didn't realize, like, oh, no shit, Carl,
you should just like fix it in your template.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
So it's like things like that, and like some of.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
The I'm gonna gonna change the term from no shit
Sherlock to no shit Carl. Yeah, Like it's like it's good,
it's good, that's yeah, your name works well for that.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
It's deserved.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
But even more commonly, like I have some of the
RX plugins, like the RX like mouth DEI click and
like the deep breath and like Deplosive and like some
of those on vocal tracks again like bypass when I
open it up, but it's there because I'm probably gonna
use it, or at least I'm probably gonna at least
try it on every vocal check to see if it
is needed and if it helps. And those are all
(07:56):
like old versions of RX that yeah, I mean I
still but like I have newer stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I have the same thing, but like in like when
I do like podcasts, I have like RX eight as
like my it's not in the template, but like you
know how logic allows you to have like favorite plugins
and so it's like it's RX eight foisty noise or
whatever instead of RX ten, which is the one I'm
currently up to. But like the truth is, I don't
use favor plugins so much because I have the plug search.
I don't know if you ever got the plug search.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I didn't. You have to get it, Carl, I have
to get I use so I use so few.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Dude, trust me best, Like I don't know twenty thirty
bucks they'll ever spend.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Okay, it's not a sponsor, not a sponsored.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Not not sponsored, but hey, if they want to talk
to us.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Just kidding, no, not just kidding, that'd be great. You
don't just kidding.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
That could be plug search chances we're waiting for you
to call us and waiting.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
For our people. But that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It's like, And when I go to add that manually,
if I go to add like a mouth you click manually,
I'm always using the newest version.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
So it's not like exactly, It's not like I know.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I've heard people talk about like different versions of auto
two and kind of having like different sounds, So like
you prefer different versions of autotune depending on like the
texture that it gives, and like for this, this is
not bad. It's not like, oh, I prefer the texture
of RX deep breath or breath control or whatever they
call it, eight versus like nine or ten or whatever
(09:18):
we're on. It's it's just there, and I never think
to actually change it.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
It's an artifact from a previous time.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, an artifact that is designed to help get rid
of artifacts.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Was that an intentional pun? No? RX?
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Okay, but it was great, great call What about you?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Are there any that you feel like you should just
like spend the three minutes and.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Just yeah fix it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Absolutely, I mean the thing I'm thinking about is saturation.
I've been a big fan of the black Box HG
two plug in as a saturator, and it is actually
on my template still on the stereo bus, which I
sometimes do, especially if it's like a very minimal instrumentation
kind of thing, like a I don't a vocal, and
then you pop that out like sixteen percent or something
(10:03):
twenty percent, and then you get just enough richness without it,
you know, just blended in sounds so good. But when
you're doing a dense production, it's a bit crazy and
heavy handed to do that much saturation for everything the
same amount. So what I need to do is, you know,
there's like a certain amount that works better for like
drum and bass, and like less for vocals, you know,
(10:24):
less for guitars and stuff. So like there's like a
I should be putting them on those actual auxiliary buses,
Like the drum auxiliary bus should have like you know,
that saturator you know, at twenty percent, and obviously I'll
check and adjust it, but like as like a starting point,
you know, and vocals less and like have it kind
of separate that stuff out so that like it's not
(10:45):
just overload and overkill and I have never made that change,
but every time I do a new mix, I do that.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
So it's stuff like that, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yes, it's funny you mentioned the black box because I
just started using that.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I must have bought it a while ago.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It was on sale or something, and I got it
and everyone was talking to me about how great it was,
and I just never used it. And then maybe the
past couple of weeks I've been using it a lot.
But I think I'm still I'm hesitant to put that
on my template because I'm still at the point of
that and I feel like we all go through this
like honeymoon stage of a new plug in, where we're
just so excited by like all the the way it
(11:21):
makes things different, that we haven't quite been able to
be objective with it enough to be like, okay, is
this man get better?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
You know?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
And I feel like if I put it into my
template too soon, even if it's like bypassed and not there, like,
I feel like it's going to be too tempting for
me to.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Try it too soon rather than what I found for myself.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
The way that I like to use it is like
getting the same thing with like any kind of like
limit or my my mix bus where it's like I
want to get this to sound as good and as
rich and as full and as slamming as I can
before I do that, and then it's just like icing
on the cake or it's way too much and I
don't use it. But it's like I I like waiting
until I'm happy before I kind of like remember, oh
(12:05):
there are still things I can like add that extra
two percent spice, but I've been doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
The way that you're talking.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
About the black box is sort of like a sound
like mixing into it just makes a lot of other
things very like easier, you know, because it'll just give
you your drum and bass sort of that like depth
that you're like looking for, and you'll just have to
do less work on the mixed bus. So yeah, I
like there's pluses and minuses to both approaches. Right, You
could do the thing that you know is going to
do something that you like and then save yourself time
(12:34):
in the individual channels, or you could do the the
individual channel work and then you might have less to
do on the stage on that either the auxiliary bus
or the stereo bus, depending on what you're doing, they're
both valid and you how to try try them both
for yourself.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
You know, see what works for you.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Minimum will probably like my first step to deciding to
add something to a template is before I add it
to a template, I'll make my own custom default so
that it's like, Okay, this is the sound that like,
like I know, for myself, I use the even tied
omnipresser all the time in dual mono mode with the
(13:11):
this is my little my little secret forgetting your sides
to feel exciting without dealing with weird imaging face shit,
even tied omnipresser in dual mono mode with the gentle
comp setting, but the mix at fourteen percent and gain
stage to peak at around negative twelve before it goes in.
(13:34):
That is just so you know, listeners of Secret Sonics,
that is the nerdiest and most specific. No, that's the
most specific I'm ever going to speak publicly about any Like.
That's a good thing that I do, because, like I get,
it's not about the specific setting. It's the fact that
like I found that that setting, I know what that
plugin does, and I know, like if I want that sound,
(13:57):
I put that on and I'm usually three seconds of
tweaking away from it being exactly what I needed, you know,
but it was just rather than start like just using
that as my user default, so that way, when I
open the plugin up, those are my settings right away,
even if I'm going to change them. It's the same
thing as like having pro q three on my mixed bus,
(14:18):
even if it's bypassed, Like just saving me this step
of having to like go through plugin folders having to
remember what the name of the preset is like when
we're you know, like I it just saves that trouble.
And then there are some some of my buses that
I probably should just have that on by default and bypassed.
And now that I'm thinking about out loud, I think
(14:40):
I know my snare a lot with the attack all
the way down because it has a really really really
fast attack. So it helps you to get like all
like the body and like the size of the drum
without just adding too much of like the tickness. And
especially when I'm I'm doing a lot of pop adjacent stuff,
so there's a lot of like electronic drums and live
drums together, like it could very easily get too too transienty,
(15:04):
like uncomfortably transiency.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, wow, this is like, yeah, this feels weird being.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Getting we're getting deep deep nerd.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I don't I don't usually do this, like on camera especially.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
And sometimes it's good to do this on camera, Carl,
I know.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
But like also people are people don't care. People will
be able to know. Maybe they're like, oh that's interesting.
They're not going to open up. No one's gonna get omnipressor.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
It's just that someone is Carl, and that person is me.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, okay, okay, Carl, okay, okay, I probably should do it.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
One of the things I've noticed over the past twenty
years being in the industry is that audio school usually
leaves most graduates completely unprepared for entering the industry. I mean, sure,
you learn how to rewire a patch, bait or sleep,
but they probably won't teach you how to stand out
and attract the kinds of artists that fuel your passion
for recording. I appreciate what you bring to the table,
let alone pay their rates. You want to get paid,
(15:54):
and YouTube university is full of people telling you that
their way is the right way, and it doesn't help
you apply things to your unique struggles, personality and ideal clients.
So I've been building studio land to fill those gaps.
We use structured learning paths. Wely live classes in a
private community of other pros to help you discover how
to turn your technical expertise into a thriving business that
(16:14):
attracts the right clients at the right rates.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Try it out for free the links in the show notes.
So what else?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
What are some other things that you feel like you
should be that you've noticed about your own workflow that
would just get a little bit faster if you just
like figure.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, I do like a lot of I do have
like presets that I do like like I have like
chains that I do in logic that I don't necessarily
like keep in the template. I'll just like click, you know,
because I have like some drum presets or whatever I'm
thinking about, like the sense.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
I think I don't know if it was you.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Maybe it was you with some of you already have
the sense sort of demarketed for, like the vocal bus,
and that's something that I still haven't done. Like I'll
just like go in, I'll choose the you know, I'll
choose the auxiliary for the effects I want to I
want to send it to and then I'll just send it,
but having had already preloaded, so you just have to
like drag it would probably save me a few seconds
(17:04):
every time. That's something that I think I've thought about
and I haven't done yet.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, and that's something like one of the things that
I got the first version of my template, which has
gone it has undergone many many reconstructive surgeries over the
past years. I got it from Andrew Maray, friend of
the show.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
He produced my old band's EP, like twenty sixteen or something,
and we hit it.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Off right away.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I referred to him for a long time as my
remix pimp because he would introduce me to a bunch
of bands he was working with to do remixes for them.
But he he sent me his logic template years and
years ago, and I kind of walked me through the
thought process behind all of it, and it was it
was great. Obviously, like I had very different plugins in him,
of a very different like, you know, approach than him,
(17:51):
but conceptually knowing that it was all about like routing
and just like making everything that you need at your
fingertips so that way you can just you can be
pulled out of the creative flow less often for shorter
amounts of time, instead of going through like drop down
menus and stuff. But he has it that like for
my vocals, like there are four different reverbs and four
(18:16):
different like delays that are all just very drastically different,
like everything from like a like a sixteenth note with
no feedback to like a crazy long like crystally like
atmospheric thing. And the purpose is not to just use
the exact same reverbs every time. The purpose is that
if I think to myself, oh, I need like a
(18:37):
I think a plate would work with this. I already
have a plate routed. I can just go proop, turn
up that box end and hear what a plate would
sound like, and it'll either be eighty percent of the
way to what I want or it'll be instantly confirming
that Nope, a plate is not the answer, and then
I can try something else. So it's it's labeling me
(18:57):
to have all the spices like ready on the kitchen counter.
You know, everything's like right there, ready to go. Right.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
You don't have to open the drawer to get the spice.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
That's the real difference.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Get it out, And yeah, I think that it's so
it saves so much time because I can just like
quick try and especially for pads and some things that
are that are just like textural super in the background,
Like it stops me from going down rabbit holes trying
to find like the perfect reverb sound for this one
thing that is like literally only felt not hurt, and
(19:29):
like no one's ever going to notice it, and like
the changes, like the difference in like adjusting the pre
delay time and like not not going to make any
kind of noticeable difference. So it also saves me time,
and I don't go down rabbit holes on things that
aren't important, so I keep my focus on the stuff
that actually is going to make the bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, I actually I have like a lot of reverbs
and delays in my template. Well not a lot, but
I have like very select ones that I know will
work for certain things. And I'm big into blending different
real verbs and stuff like That's a big part of
what I do. Like a little haul, a little plate,
a little delay combination will get you a long way.
But I think I need more reverbs and more delays
(20:10):
in my templates. Even though I have like probably five
reverbs and three delays or something. I think I need
a few more. I need to start experimenting more with
my reverb. I have reverbs at work and are so
trusted that they always work. I don't have to like
do other things. But sometimes I get I'm like getting
a little bored of my reverbs, you know what I mean.
I kind of want to add a little bit more
spice to my template. So that involves I mean it
(20:32):
could just be in a specific song, I find something
and then saving it as a preset and then adding
that preset to the template so that it's a new
interesting reverb spice so that it's definitely something that I
don't do enough of because I'll always make like a
new reverb pretty much always make a new reverb for
a specific song. But then I don't like save it
(20:55):
and add it to like the list, because often I'm
going to the go tos, you know what I'm saying,
Like more times than not, like I'll use like the
manny American hall or the little plate plate reverb or whatever,
or the valhalla, but like it's fun to save those
and then come back to them again, Like, oh, I
had that cool thing that I used that one time.
It was like a springy thing. Where is it so
(21:16):
like I need to be better at you know, saving
these presets, yeah, and then popping them in the template.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
And I think the thing that, you know, if there's
anybody listening thinking, I can't believe you want to use
a preset on the different song. Sometimes it works, and
also you can always tweak it, like it's not an
all or nothing, black and white option, Like you can
use it as a starting point and then adjust it
to fit the specifics of the new song.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
But for sure, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
They are definitely some purists that are gonna be real
cranky about this, but whatever, let them take six hours
on a mix.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah, just like to validate you, like, when a very
specific reverb or effect is needed, you're gonna make that
sound anyways, and more times than not, it's not needed
and it does not affect the quality of the song
at all, you know, Like I'm with you. I don't
know if I have any other examples. I feel like
there's probably like some chains that I could just like
(22:07):
have more often and bypassed. But I'm mostly happy with
my template, except for a couple of things I said.
I think I need to work a little more on
like gain staging, but that's another topic for another another day.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I think the last one that I can think of
right now is I've found myself again because I'm doing
a lot of Papa jacent stuff, a lot of blending
of electronic and live instruments, and I've found that I
don't have pro Q four yet.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
I still use pro Q three same here, by the way.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
But doing a dynamic shelf to tame like two or
three k and up on my Snare bus, on my
Tom's bus and on my Symbols bus and often on
my on my kickbus too, I found makes things feel
so much more in a pocket and and gelled because
(23:02):
I feel like again I'm getting sent. I'm very rarely
you know, mixing live recorded drums, as a lot of
it's either like electronic drums, like intentionally like electronic drums,
or sometimes it's like programmed live drums that are still
meant to sound bigger and larger than life. Like I'm
not doing like Folcan Americana stuff, you know, so obviously
(23:22):
probably wouldn't need to do that, probably wouldn't do the
opposite for a lot of like live tracked drums. But
I've found that especially when people are using electronic drum samples,
like they're so overhyped. There's like too much top, too
much bottom of just like all full range all the time.
And then I've found that that's been helping me to
kind of keep those spiky bits under control. And it helps,
(23:47):
I mean, especially if I'm gonna then put it into
the black box on my on my drum bus, it
ends up helping to make it and not feel as.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Saturated high contrast, high saturation, high insanity.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, it's like it helps you to feel the saturation
without like it being so obviously heard, which is usually
what I'm I'm trying to go for. You know, I
want to like cool, I want to sneak as much
grit as I can and without you noticing it. I
want to get like right up on the edge of
like how much depth and character can I get without
it being distracting, because I don't want it to be
(24:20):
distracting from the vocals.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Totally one hundred percent. Okay, awesome, Well this is cool.
I got a rap soon. But this is fun and
I and definitely thought provoking. And I have to say, Carl,
like the last bunch of episodes we've done, I've been
really thought provoking for me, and I've like been more
inspired than usual and been picking up instruments more than usual.
And I think it's thanks to my conversations with you
(24:43):
and uh awesome. Yeah, like the limitations, you know, limitation
creativity one has been good for me. Yeah, I'm I'm like, uh,
I'm feeling juices are coming back, so let's hope they
they stay coming back.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
That's great to hear, because every time I talk to you,
I just want to quit music and jump in front
of a bus.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Wow, I'm kidding. I love you, Ben, Ben, I love Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
You're awesome. I and I just have to I'm not
good at taking I'm not I'm not good.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I don't know your Yeah, I mean I'm terrible at it.
We're both horrible at at taking a couple of moments.
But but I'm just saying, like it's been, it's been good,
like I've been. Uh, I'm feeling like the inspo so awesome.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Go check out our inspiration playlist. We're not going to
talk about songs that we've added, but yeah, we've added more,
and each of us are are adding five songs a week,
so at least and then they'll be there for a
little bit and then they're gonna go away. So check
out our inspiration Spotify plylist and just join the community
of listeners who are being inspired by music that we
(25:43):
think is cool. And you know you don't have to,
but you can go check it out.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Such a great sales pitch.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Ben, You got to check out the Spotify playlist, I
mean whatever you know, like, it's definitely like curated by
Ben and Carl, so it's going to.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Be a total mix.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Can I try? Ben?
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yeah, go go.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
If you want to hear some music that you haven't
before and just something that is going to shake up
your perception of sound and reality, check out that playlist
and maybe there are some songs on there that you
have heard before and that you love and it's a
reminder that they affect you so deeply and so musically
and rekindle your appreciation for this song. So do we
(26:21):
expect you to love them all?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
No?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Do we expect you to want to listen to them
over and over and over again and they're your new
favorite artists? No, but yeah, we hope to shake things
up a little bit, absolutely, And to do that you
got to act quick because they're gonna go pretty soon.
So click that link, smash that subscribe button. I don't
know whatever they say, whatever they say on.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
The YouTube's weekly inspiration Yeah, but listen to Yeah, they'll
be there every time we upload. We upload ten songs
a week between the two of us. They're there for
five weeks. So that's that's how much time you have
to find out what me and Carl were listening to.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And you know why we chose five weeks. You know
why we chose five weeks.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Randomly, we picked an umber out of our ass, I mean,
empty songs.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
What we should do is pretend that it was like
some sort of like I don't know, mathematical Fibonacci sequence
and like it's like a like it's like lore from
a Tool album. Uh no, we just picked a number. Anyway,
that's enough. That's enough rambling. Go listen to it, Go
listen to the music. It's really fun and good and
bye Ben.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
Bye Carl.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
We hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as we did.
If anything here resonated with you, please share this or
your favorite episode with a friend.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
And as always, we love to hear from our listeners,
so find us on social media at Secret Sonics.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
At Ben Wallace Music, and at Carl Vonner.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Until next time, Bye Ben.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Bye Carl. That's good. I think the outro is great.
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