October 15, 2021 • 50 mins
How do you integrate the practice of Tantra without absorbing potentially harmful cis-heteronormative narratives?
This episode is for radical anti-assimilationists, those who want to get past the trauma stories of linen pants, and those who know enlightenment doesn't happen by turning a blind eye to pain, suffering, and the oppressed.
Join Devi Ward Erickson and her guest TK as they discuss Queering Tantra and what that looks like.
In this episode find out...
-queering the language of tantra - deciding whether we want to use terms like feminine/masculine, top/bottom, receiving/giving
-how to integrate body pleasure and ways of dealing with dysmorphia
-how kink can help-deliberate immediate presence vs open empty space
-what it means to be fiercely vulnerable with language you choose
-how to create and use your own terms
-tantra as an integrated lifestyle: breathing life and presence into all you do
Thank you for listening to Sex Is Medicine! We appreciate YOU! :-)
Please make sure you LIKE + SUBSCRIBE to Sex Is Medicine REBOOT! And please leave us a comment... we love to hear your thoughts!
Do you have a question you want answered on air? We are delighted to answer!
Send your questions to Questions@holisticsexologyinstitute.com
Learn more about our work at HolisticSexologyInstitute.com
Find out more about our government-accredited Holistic Sexology Certification Program.
See you next week!
With Love,
Devi and Alaina
This episode is for radical anti-assimilationists, those who want to get past the trauma stories of linen pants, and those who know enlightenment doesn't happen by turning a blind eye to pain, suffering, and the oppressed.
Join Devi Ward Erickson and her guest TK as they discuss Queering Tantra and what that looks like.
In this episode find out...
-queering the language of tantra - deciding whether we want to use terms like feminine/masculine, top/bottom, receiving/giving
-how to integrate body pleasure and ways of dealing with dysmorphia
-how kink can help-deliberate immediate presence vs open empty space
-what it means to be fiercely vulnerable with language you choose
-how to create and use your own terms
-tantra as an integrated lifestyle: breathing life and presence into all you do
Thank you for listening to Sex Is Medicine! We appreciate YOU! :-)
Please make sure you LIKE + SUBSCRIBE to Sex Is Medicine REBOOT! And please leave us a comment... we love to hear your thoughts!
Do you have a question you want answered on air? We are delighted to answer!
Send your questions to Questions@holisticsexologyinstitute.com
Learn more about our work at HolisticSexologyInstitute.com
Find out more about our government-accredited Holistic Sexology Certification Program.
See you next week!
With Love,
Devi and Alaina
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Sex's Medicine, your number one resource for holistic
sex education. I'm Davey word Ericson, and I invite you
to join me every week for another enriching and powerful
conversation about the intersection of sexuality, spirituality, pleasure, and personal growth.
Each episode of Sex's Medicine is dedicated to awakening your
(00:23):
heart and mind to the true purpose and power of
human sexuality. Please join me on this journey of self
discovery as we explore the art of using pleasure as
medicine to awaken, heal, and empower every area of your life.
Sex's Medicine broadcasts every Thursday at seven pm Pacific on
(00:45):
Contact Talk Radio Networking. You can listen to the replay
and subscribe to Sex's Medicine on Spotify, Stitcher, tune in, iTunes, iHeartRadio,
and YouTube. And now get ready for another episode of
Sex Is Medicine. Hey, everybody, welcome to sex Is Medicine.
(01:07):
I am your host, Davy ward Ericson, here with you
once again for another delicious and exciting episode where we
explore the connection between sexuality, spirituality, pleasure, and personal growth.
One of our favorite topics. I just want to give
you a reminder that this is going to be the
last month of sexist medicine for twenty twenty one. We
(01:29):
are taking a little winter vaca for November December of
twenty twenty one in early twenty twenty two, but we
plan to be back at you in the spring of
twenty twenty two. And in the meantime, of course, you
can stay connected to all of this deliciousness at authentic
tontra dot com and make sure that you follow us
on all of our social media outlets at Authentic Tentre.
(01:50):
You can also follow my little personal journey of poppy
love on davy Ward tntra as well. This evening, we
have a wonderful, wonderful guest who has been a colleague
of mine for many many years, a graduate of our
Authentic ton for Certification program, actually graduate from our first
the year went to a full year of training, our
full first full year of training twenty sixteen, and that
(02:13):
is TK and TK Spider is.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
The I got my spiders on.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Oh yeah, for all, you're a rock climber. You're like
a spider climbing rocks. Yay, I thought so, I thought so.
So TK is joining us this evening to talk about
queering TONTRA, a topic that is really important in something
that we absolutely want to explore moving into more of
at the institute. So thank you so much, TK for
being here with.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Us, Thanks for having me Davey, Yeah, yay.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So could you share a little bit about yourself? TK?
So you you graduated in twenty sixteen from our training
program and what have you been up to since then?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I can't believe twenty sixteen only five ish years ago.
I I've been doing authentic entre practitioner work. I was
working in sports medicine for a while. I'm an athletic
trainer certified as well. I stopped doing that. I work
(03:19):
at a route setting gym. I do sex and authentic
contra coaching. I came out early this year as non
binary trans mask. I've been in the kink world. My
partner and I have performed at Folsome and Twisted Windows,
(03:41):
and we submitted to HUMP so kind of exploring avenues
with kink and infusing and integrating TNTRA and what it
means to be queer and trans and polyamorous. And now
I am relaunching my formal former Lovecraft collective dot com
to queering Tantra dot org with a focus on queer
(04:05):
and trans bodies and changing language and infusing what it
means to be queer into sexual liberation. Yeah, and that's
kind of hand in handle.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah really, and that's a huge topic in the realm
of specifically because it is so binary, and we'll explore
some of the reasons for that, but because that's also
it's very exclusionary, right, there's not a big push in
the in the world of at least neo Western neotntra
to include non binary bodies and bodies that aren't aren't
(04:38):
easily fitting into this box of either or and and
and and for example, So when I, when you and
I first met were working together, you were female. That's
how you you identified. And then in your journey, it
sounds like your journey of personal liberation has allowed you
to claim the totality of who you are, which is
(04:59):
beyond this box of you know, female woman and into
non binary and then also as a man. So are
you open to sharing a little bit about that journey.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, it's it's an interesting one. It's spending a lot
of time wrestling with language and what it means to
exist in a world that has these power structures set up,
so like gender identity and what is what we consider normative,
(05:32):
A lot of it's about power, Like when the reasons
our brains are categorizing these things, the stuff that we're
socialized is socialized into is about competence, power, threat, sexual attraction.
But all that kind of plays and boils into the
metal level of power. So I spend a lot of
time wrestling with that and almost Scorpio. You're a scorpio too.
(05:55):
There's like this deep need to understand what's happening, which
I think is part of why we're called ta tantra,
and so in trying to figure out what's going on
understanding why I would like cringe at the word fem
or like this kind of idea of like a woman's circle,
(06:16):
and how I actually started to realize I didn't feel
like I fit into those spaces. Yeah, just kind of unfolded,
and I, in hindsight, my childhood seems so it's like,
so twenty twenty makes so much sense. And now the
(06:36):
language is evolving to like include new understandings, and I
think that that's really the like this stuff has always
been here, we're just using words that express it. Differently
and more powerfully.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah yeah, yeah, So expanding expanding our language, and expanding
our understanding of what it means to be human ultimately,
and it's many myriad forms, yeah yeah, so exploring all
of those concepts. So so for you, it sounds like
(07:14):
as you have been practicing and as you've been like
coming more into alightnment with your own authentic self, that's
what has catalyzed your exploration outside of these you know,
belief structures and these power dynamics and started to explore
outside of that. And so what are some of the
(07:34):
things that you've you've you've found now that you've kind
of left the container of like the traditional masculine feminine
orientation to tantra, what are some of the things that
you've seen and in the field and and and you know,
looking back, like what are some of the things that
you see? If that's a clear question, I.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Think, so I'll try and if I don't quite get it,
we can try again. Some of it is using more
like whole language. So when someone says the term masculine,
(08:17):
that's a cultural like da yeah, And I mean I
love being masculine, right. My association with the word feminine
is not as loving. And so when I think of
the things that someone might call feminine, I have a
very soft side, and I have a very nurturing side,
and I have a very like that the loving carrying
(08:38):
the stuff we culturally associate with that. And so some
of it is just a shift away from these kind
of umbrella terms that we have used, I mean partially
because they are useful into more specific and more like
whole and inclusive language.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, I hear that. I hear that a call for
for for humanity and so specifically I know that, I'll say,
and you know, there's as we talk about, there's different
styles of tantra, and there's different ways of practicing tantra,
and so I observe a lot of the masculine feminine
dynamic kind of conversation happening in the realm of neo
Tantra and David Data. It's like as a as a man,
(09:21):
as a masculine man, you need to be powerful and
have your polarity, and as a feminine woman, like you
can't be that good at business. You have to like
be receptive or you're not going to be a man.
You're gonna have too much masculine energy to get fucked
or something like that, right, So that's yeah, i'd not
crazy making too. And in terms of Tibetan Tnraed Buddhism,
(09:45):
I know that for me, where my mind goes and
where the emphasis and the masculine feminine is often is
on the expression of universal energy. So there's this concept
in Tibetan Buddhism that the feminine is formed. So that's
the way like universal energies are are feminine and masculine,
and so the feminine is the physical, it's the form,
it's everything having to do with the flesh and the
(10:06):
senses and being incarnate or environment. And then the masculine
is conceptual and etheric and you know, kind of out
of body. And so the whole thing of tntras, you know, balancing.
We have masculine and feminine within us, and it's balancing
the essences. There's also you know, things just in terms
of hormones. I know, in the Daoist tradition and in
(10:27):
the Tibetan tradition, feminine essences feminine. They're talking about hormones
and they call them the red essences. And it's like
the estrogen and the progesterone and certain hormones that are
specific to female gonads. And then the masculine essences are
like the semen and the prosthetic fluid and that sort
(10:48):
of thing, and the testosterone, and those are masculine because
those are produced by what are typically called male hormones.
So in terms of you know, rectifying and having more
all inclusive legguage, when we're talking about you know, physiological
components or hormones or universal energies, do we need to
be looking at using opening up our terminology and describing
(11:10):
those those things differently without using masculine and feminine or
are things like when we're describing universal energy, is it
acceptable under that umbrella?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Great question, And I'm glad you brought up form and
energy because that's a that's a big part of energies, right,
It's like what we're embodying and swaying and changing through
in terms of that stuff. So I was just reading
through Passionate Lane. We're talking about the red fluids and
(11:40):
the white fluids, and one of the things that I've found,
you know, in my own engagement or like with my consort,
is that you can embody that energy. Yeah, and you
can uh, you can embody that energy, and then whatever
(12:02):
fluids you're producing can be whatever fluids you're infusing them with.
Energy wise, yes, And so as we move away from
this idea of like super binary endocrine systems, because as
we study more about testosterone, we find that different bodies
that we previously thought would have very specific levels, actually
(12:24):
it's not as binary, and it's not as clear, especially
with people from the global self or the periphery, right,
So making that more inclusive in terms of like what
are we embodying when we are engaged in sex or
tantra the partner or by ourselves. Why not make white
(12:45):
fluid when you're feeling like it? And I think that
that's a big part of kind of what we might
get into later about tantra being part kind of a
counterculture as we like where it came from and how
it got passed down to like everyday people, that this
(13:05):
is like an evolution of that.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, and you're you're exactly correct, and that tantra is
counterculture like the origins of it. So this whole conversation
of queering entre is so fucking dondric like, so like
breaking out of our our conceptual reality, our concept of reality,
and so so I hear that in terms of like
(13:30):
that would be a wonderful in my experiment to do.
In terms of like, you know, if I'm if I'm
really you know, calling on like typical stereotypical feminine energies,
is my body producing hormones that are congruent with that,
And if I shift my energies to be more you know,
masculine quote unquote masculine oriented, Am I producing more white essences?
(13:52):
That would be very interesting also when occurs to me,
that's it seems like a certain level of accomplishment as well. Right,
and then also there are certain aspects of our physicality
that that we we don't have control over yet. So
in terms of you know, conversion not conversion therapy, that's
a bad thing. In terms of hormones, hormon that's very different.
(14:19):
But yeah, but in terms of like, if I want
to you know, if I'm transitioning into a man, I'm
going to take hormones that's that decrease my as you know,
my my ovary hormones and increase what would be considered
more male hormones. So on the hormonal level, that is
still you know, applicable. I think even you know, in
the trans community, there's acknowledgment that our hormones do affect
(14:40):
their anatomy.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's true, and it's that's such an interesting space.
It's like blackness is not a monolith. Trans people are
not a monolith, right. So there's some people that are
trans and non binary and maybe don't want to take
hormones but want top surgery, And then there's some people
that do want to take hormones but don't want top
surgery or like all kinds of ways of expressing themselves.
(15:05):
And there's different amounts of physical dysphoria, and that's something
that very interested in working with people about. My own
comes in waves, and there's periods where everything's okay and
this is my body, and then there's periods where it's intolerable.
And so finding the ways through using this energy and
(15:26):
sex as medicine like to move that energy through, I
think is also really important.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So let's talk about that because that is a big issue,
the body dysphoria, right, and so how do we how
do we as inclusive providers support trans and queer people
in doing some of those somatic sexual healing practices and
approaching you know, the genitals in a way that's going
(15:55):
to be supportive and loving as opposed to triggering and painful. Well,
I guess it's different for each person.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So much of our programming is like a client guided process. Yeah,
this is even more so, and so it really depends
on what's tolerable. Some people like having their breast tissue touched,
and some people that might be a source of dysphoria.
(16:26):
So for imagining, if there's any source of pleasure in
that part of the body, can you get at it?
And if so, can you grow it? And maybe it's
I want it to be touched this way, but not
that way. I want you to like, grab my muscle,
but don't grab the breast tissue, or you can pinch
the nipple, but don't caress my breasts. Right, So it's
(16:50):
a lot of that exploration, whether by yourself or with
a partner, of very similar exploration we do with cisgendered
people who haven't touched their bodies or don't know what
they like. It's the same kind of questioning process and
really making a lot of space and room for whatever
comes up, right, because we know trauma is stored in
the body, and especially in the genital tissues and so
(17:11):
same same kind of like in the genitals, some people
transmit don't or aren't into penetration and some really are
and some love it. Yeah, And so finding out whether
or not that's going to be something that's on the
table and not assuming starting out with thirty seconds, can
you touch yourself for thirty seconds and see if something's there?
(17:34):
Can you see you know? And then moving through that
really person to person, really gentle, very curious and like
trying to step back from these so many of them
are blind spots, I know because of our culture, but
step back from you.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, and I'm hearing, I'm hearing what an
incredible opportunity for communication this is and just how slow
and like really spacious it needs to be to to
support the individual and having their own wisdom arise to
communicate what their needs are in regards to this, as
(18:13):
opposed to us as the practitioners, presuming that we know
and just kind of shoveling it on them with our
biases and all of.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
That impact and expecting it to shift. Like when I
first started working with you, I was in a period
of time where I really needed some like soft, juicy, feminine.
I was all into the juicy, and then there there
came a shift and I was like that, oh interesting,
that's actually an aspect of this thing. And so like
(18:40):
making room for it to move. And there is no
there is no there's no destination. It's just like a pleasure.
Your pleasure is going to change. You can grow it,
grow it, grow it, and then something might happen and
you'll be back to where you you know, it's the
same same thing.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
So the fluidity and the and the I'm also here,
the unboundedness.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
And the the the the expectation that as our sexuality,
as we become more in touch with ourselves, the way
we express our sexuality is going to evolve and grow
and change, and sometimes that's going to look like breaking
the boxes entirely.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Oh totally. It's so painful.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah right, yeah, yeah, tell me about that. What's so
painful about that?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Grief? So I've heard grief described as love with nowhere
to go? Yeah, And when I think of, you know,
my own experience, this idea of like who I am
in the world or who I'm how people see me,
how I've showed up for people? You know how my
mom asks, can I still call you my daughter?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So there's like all these aspects where it's like, actually,
I'm grieving this person that I'm not anymore, and that's
breaking through a box or the it's coming out. Yeah,
but yeah, it's not. It's yeah, there's a lot of
(20:14):
grief there, and there's aspects of that it's like, oh, actually,
maybe I didn't want to break through all of that.
Maybe there's this aspect that's still okay in my childhood
thinks name actually feels okay, but the rest of this doesn't.
And so like that's that's a heavy process.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, And as you're as you're sharing this, what's coming
to me is because of like it's it's unfathomable in
some ways to someone who is who identifies as cysts
and hat and it's you know, our brains are wired
in that way. So these beautiful and precious nuances of
as we are, you know, as you are becoming, as
(20:55):
you were shedding who you used to be and becoming
more of who you are now, as you're just grabbing
that grief in that process of letting go, and just
how how poignant and precious that is and how tender
and sacred, quite frank of that space is. And so
I'm also hearing like the imperative of having having queer
(21:18):
contra teachers to be able to have the resonance and
the relatability to be able to hold that space for
for our students as they go, because it's really a rebirthing.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, I mean, And people who do hormone replacement therapy
talk about their second puberty, so yeah, yeah, it is,
I mean. And interestingly, to draw a parallel, we become
different people throughout our lives all the time. Yeah, right,
Like you used to be a monk.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, I used to be a stripper too. I still
act like a stripper sometimes.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
How many lives do we have? And so I think
that one of the as you know, the media doesn't
we we talked. The media talks a lot about trans
and queer people, but doesn't engage a ton with trans
and queer people. And the truth is the experience, not
the like socialized experience, but the I can only speak
for myself, but the truth is that experience is like
(22:17):
very similar to like you know, when I left LA
I moved to small town Montana. It was a different
kind of rebirthing. There was a different kind of reef there,
and this one just happens to be this other avenue
that people have all these like very socialized, intense normative
scripts put on us children. But it's an experience I
(22:39):
think that everybody actually can relate to, and it's not
as foreign as to set people think or might think
it is. It's really you know, you're trying something else,
you're doing something else. Yeah, I think that gets conflated
and in fear because the passion is real. I don't
(23:01):
mean to say that this isn't real, right, but like
muh yeah, the experience, the experience of becoming should be
familiar to a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, because it's a human experience, right, Yeah. Yeah. So
then how can we as practitioners in the field of
TNDRA who who really who are committed and really want
to bring healing to all humans in all all expressions
of humanity? How can we demonstrate and provide and create
(23:33):
safer space for our queer brothers and sisters and siblings
and siblings.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
So this is an interesting one. I there's a lot
of different language out there. I personally have been borrowing
from kink and using terms of pop and bottom mm hmm,
to describe who's going to be, you know, sitting on
someone's lap in the ab young position, or who's receiving
(24:06):
sensation and you know, a tounch of massage or something
like that. And then I tend to ask people what
they prefer to have their genitals called. Yeah, so not
assuming that somebody likes to have their vulva be called
the vulva you know in specific medical situations. Maybe that's
(24:29):
appropriate in uh, some kind of emergent situation, but otherwise,
it's like there's a whole host of words out there.
I like to call mine my portal, and uh, what
else is there? A lot of it really is language.
So we're talking about masculine and feminine energies. I prefer
(24:51):
to like just stay away from those terms. And you
talk about I think you brought up earlier the form
and energy and like what parts of you are full
and your energy and what's being expressed like this and
what's being expressed over here? And like actually, how much
more how much more space you're talking about expansiveness, how
(25:12):
much more space? Using like we talk about nonviolent communication
and using these describing words, these intense like specific nuanced vocabulary,
more freedom.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, I hear that, And because it is like really
drilling down into what it is that you want to describe.
So in terms circling back to this whole concept of energy,
feminine energy versus masculine energy, Well, if we take the
time to really drill down into it, what are we describing?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
So what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
What are we talking about? Yeah, so the active, vital,
red energy is what comes to mind from me when
we say, you know, the in Tibetan, when we say
the feminine energy, it's active, it's vital, its form, it's red.
And masculine energy is ethic, it's open, it's spacious, it's conceptual.
So instead of just saying masculine feminine, presuming that people
know what the fuck I'm talking about, actually describing the energy,
(26:04):
because yeah, because that's a thing not everybody when saying
masculine energy, in some traditions, that means the form as
opposed to being conceptual. Right, So yeah, yeah, I hear that.
So really, the masculine feminine is really problematic in that
in that in in in that realm.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, and I think it can be the other. And
that's just you know, some people have dysphoria with those words. Yeah,
but also I think that it speaks to you what
you're just saying, like, what are we talking about? What
the fuck are we talking about? The other one? Oh,
(26:41):
if we are like separating groups of people to share experiences,
this is a tough one. I think unless there is
some very extreme traumatic exception that we should not be
separating people by gender, you know, like having like a
like a women's sharing circle or a men sharing And
(27:02):
I don't know how you're doing things now because it's
been a couple of years since I was in the program.
If people are still sharing all together, or if there's
breakout groups that folks separate, but keeping everybody has something
to learn from everybody. H And so yeah, keeping everybody
together if they're sharing specific things that maybe some people
(27:25):
would be like, well, these should be reserved for these
people with this anatomy, because you know, moving through the
world as a woman is yeah, under patriarchy different, sure,
But who does that exclude when we don't make room
for nuance?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, I hear that. So my preference is for everybody
to share. That's that's always been I hate breaking out
sometimes we have to, but it's usually I don't recall
it breaking out based on gender. It's as well teaching pods,
teaching pods. But my preference is for everyone to all
be together all the time. And I hear that in
(28:00):
terms of like I would say, maybe for a public,
public workshop, and as you pointed, there are specific concerns
that are you know, specific for let's say cis gender
heterosexual or we'll just say sitch under mind because they
may not be heterosexual, things like stemen retention. Right, So
like having a a cis gender men's group to talk
about how they work with their penis, right, or maybe
(28:23):
just having a penis owners group. I think, yeah, right, yeah,
so everyone can engage.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Totally and being clear about that, right, because it might
be that the penis owner owner's workshop is open, but
if there's no other language about being trans inclusive, then
is a woman who has penis going to show up
there and want to feel safe? Right?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, exactly exactly, So even in that case, So I
remember when I when I taught at the Seattle Center
for Sex Positivity and I was doing a you know,
a tuntra masturbation for women. It was like, you know,
we were really clear about about or they they really
wanted me to be clear about, like, okay, so is
this for cist gender women, is this for all women?
Like what kind of women are we talking about? And
(29:04):
they also shared like, if you want it to just
be for cis gender women, because that's the people that
you want to talk to, that's great, you know, like,
just be clear about that so that it's not like
you're not just erasing that there's women with penises, and
if it's inclusive for women with penises, then communicate that totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
So again I'm hearing really mindfulness and care and examination
(29:30):
of the language that we use and some of the
concepts that are conditioned into us by our culture, and
those those concepts being inadequate to describe the totality of
our human experience. And so also i'm hearing you also
mentioned like in workshops or i'm sorry, in teaching clients
and talking about their genitals. That's very specific. So what
(29:52):
about in the case of a workshop, if we're in
a workshop when we've got a mix of cist gender
people and trans people, and all the trans people in
the workshop have a different name for their genital anatomy,
how do we balance the the thoughts, not that you
have all the answers, but that's about.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I'm like, oh, no, what would I do.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
We're just having a conference that we're exploring possibilities here, right.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, I mean, and probably we're going to talk about genitals. Yeah,
And it's my own resistance is coming up and being like, well,
would I just use medical terms? Maybe maybe I would
use you know, a ritchie medical terms, and maybe there
would be some kind of disclaimer. Yeah. The other thing?
(30:40):
What was I just thinking? I think some of it
is just about like relaxing. We talked, you know, like
when you're we're teaching clients to relax so they're not
like squeezing as they're about to come. And you're like,
I think of our under norms and are kind of
(31:01):
like societal ideas is like, I'm a man, and when
we like relax out of that rigidity, there's just like
room for things to expand yes, yes, yes, And so
I think of like, well what would I Well, maybe
i'd ask the class. Maybe I would say, hey, we're
(31:22):
going to talk about this and if it's confusing, we
can try to clarify and we'll go from here. Yea
or maybe we'd talk about Oh it's funny. Yeah, I
don't ideas of shapes come to mind, Like maybe there's
a like shapes the class can agree on. But the
(31:44):
idea there is to play is to find the like
play inside of like where can we all be? And
like sex is medicine, sex is fun, Like play is healing,
and how do we reject they that makes us like
I don't want to make a mistake or I don't
want to have used some different language because it's really
(32:06):
hard for me to understand. It's like, all right, we'll relax.
No one's stealing anything from you, which is kind of
a non answer, but.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
You know that's a that's a beautiful answer. And what
I'm loving also is so we you were you were
in the anti racism training that we held for the institute,
and I'm so loving this. You know these anti racist values,
which is like sometimes we don't know. We don't have
to show up and know all the answers we create.
We co created as a collective, we co created as
a community, So I you know, it would be part
(32:41):
of the white supremacist ideology for me to walk into
a room and presume I know what the fuck's can
happen with a group of twenty people I've never met before,
I know what all their needs are. Like, that's exactly
what we're pointing to you. We can't make assumptions that
that we have to be present and open and spacious
(33:02):
and allowing the nuances and the diversity and and the
variety to emerge. And then as a collective we co
create how we're going to navigate this space with the
intention of love and support.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So the kind of workshop I want to go to,
not when that's like specifically we're going to, you know,
say these words, it's like, well, actually everything you just said.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah, actually we don't know all the answers, so let's
co create it.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, let's figure it out.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah yeah. And so you also mentioned that you've been
diving into kink as part of your reclamation journey. So
where are they? Where are the intersection points that you
see between tontra and kink, Like, how can how does
kink cultivate presence and mindfulness and in a similar way
that tuntra can? And where where are the points of
connection there?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I love this question. So my partner is a prodom
and when we first met, we were both like, oh
you do that, Oh you do that. Oh no, I
do that, But we do this differently. A lot of
the the reason why top and bottom work I think
(34:17):
really well in TNTRA is that whoever's topping in a
scene in kink is following the lead generally and is
given consent and is empowered by the bottom to do
the things that they're doing. And so you know in tantra,
if we're going to be giving somebody massage, that the
(34:40):
person whose genitals are going to be touched is going
to empower the other person to touch their genitals. And
that is a process where the person touching them is
making eye contact with them. That's generally another point I
think some people who practice different kinds of mediasm sometimes
they put in their scenes that they you know, you
(35:01):
don't look at me unless I ask you to. But
generally you're making eye contact, You're following somebody's breath and
big time consent and communication.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm hearing that tremendous communication. Yeah yeah.
And so when I hear that, so it's like the
bottom is driving. So in the way I think of
this as a receiver. And so if we're talking about
giving and receiving. So if I'm receiving a Yoni massage,
I'm driving, even though it may look like the giver
is driving, I am actually you know, putting on the brakes,
(35:33):
saying or pushing on the gas, and giving the communication
about how fast, how slow, and what the needs are.
So I'm hearing that in Kank the bottom, the person
receiving the administration is the one actually driving the car,
even though it may look like the top is the
one in control.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yeah, and you know, all of the agreements and conversations
that happen generally, I am practicing. I think you're going
to negotiate a lot of what happens beforehand. Where Tana,
there's more of like I'm here and talking with you,
but not all the time, and sometimes that's different depends
(36:13):
on who you're playing with and how you're playing.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah, I want to circle back to the body dysphoria
and finding pleasure. You did such a beautiful job of
talking about like, is there any pleasure in this space?
And if so, can we build upon it? But I
want to talk a little bit more about approaching that
in the realm of TNTRA because because that that that's
a huge huge trauma. It's a huge area of wounding
(36:42):
and suffering, and so as as practitioners wanting to be
able to provide safe space for trends and queer people
to explore this. What are some things that we need
to know about body dysphoria and how to in your opinion, like,
what would you have liked to receive if you were
(37:02):
if you were if you were on the receiving end
of of a TOUNT instructor from our school, how would
you like to be held in that space?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Oh? Interesting? Well my first thought is like I tend
to call my clip my dick. Yeah, okay, and so
if it's funny, I'm wearing my big clit energy shirt.
(37:32):
So I think there's a mirroring that happens there, which
is what you're talking about relatability earlier and that kind
of even if someone doesn't understand it, they got to
get it. Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, they gotta feel you, empathy.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
I gotta feel you. Yeah yeah. And then really, I
think the biggest thing for me is a curiosity and
really letting that person drive with a little bit of push.
(38:14):
There's this kind of like, oh, well, maybe you don't
want to explore penetration. Oh no, every time I try
to explore penetration, I you know, have a panic attack
and it's like, okay, well that's that's okay if you
never explore penetration. Are you okay with that? Do we
want to like get into radically accepting that? Okay, Once
you radically accept that, might there be some time in
the future, like if you're open to it, please, like
(38:36):
I want to be here if that's something you want
to explore whenever you're ready. And so really finding the
line of being like not like are you sure in
an infantilizing way, but kind of like all right, feel
into that. Are we okay withdrawing this boundary about you know,
how you want your penis touched? If you know someone's
(38:59):
on spiral electone and estradiol and whatever's happening to their
body is making you know, changes there, and it's a
big exploration. I think that doing the research about how
different trans bodies like to fox.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, yep. And and well you just mentioned the different
hormones and how they're going to affect sensation. That's a
huge component of it. I mean we're like hormone factories, right,
and it impacts everything from mood to thought process to sensation.
So being educated about about how how those chemicals are
(39:41):
going to impact our experience of touch, yeah, I mean,
and to add a personal touch.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I I tried to stosterone earlier this year. I was very,
very very excited about it, and it changed my arousal
process so drastically and so quickly. It was arrifying, and
I stopped. And that's not everybody's experience. Often hormones balance out.
But for me, where I was at and still am
at in my life right now, there's so many other
things going on, it was like, this is too much.
(40:12):
This is like straying away from how I understand my
pleasure and I like need to be grounded in my
pleasure with all the like stuff happening, Yeah, and so
being ready to make space for that if that's what
somebody else is going through too, the like, yeah, how
do we how do we make room in a changing landscape?
You know? There's like an interesting parallel I think is menopause,
(40:36):
And that's where a lot of people get their hormone
research on estrogen. A lot of like male to female
transition folks.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
So yeah, yeah, and menopause is a great example. As
I enter into that myself, I'm shocked. It's like it
can create brain fog. You forget words like I didn't
know you can forget like too much read that. So yeah,
(41:11):
it's it's a it's pretty profound the impact that hormones have,
so being really mindful, uh, for all of us. The
more we talk about, the more I just hear is
like again, it's human and just just opening that extra
not even extra, opening that other pedal. And I think
of like our human consciousness as a lotus, right, so oh,
(41:32):
here's another pedal to open here, here's here's another area
to explore and be be more aware of and have
compassion and grace and mindfulness and love and yeah, it's
this conversation is about how can we be more full
of human to more humans?
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Totally totally yeah. And I think the other thing is
some people get their first t shot and it's the
greatest change that's ever happened in their life and they
never saw yeah hanging for that.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah yeah, all them mean, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
The frenzy that might happen there or yeah or otherwise.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
The myriad of different experiences that we may have is
unique human beings so then your work you are you
are making a choice to focus on queering contra What
is it? What does that mean? How is that going
to look in the world?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I hope, I know You're called creating it exactly. And
that's that's been so much of this experience. The majority
of the clients that I've seen since graduating have ended
up being queer. I'm in the Pacific Northwest and around
the Seattle area, so it makes sense queer and polly
(42:51):
and generally kinky as well, so it like really helps
that whole framework. I think it's just going to be
a pretty soft launch, but into really like the stuff
we talked about with with tantra form and energy and
(43:11):
and and moving away from very binary language. And there's
that quote by Belle Hooks that I love. Uh. She
says something like, not queer as in who I'm having
sex with, but that could be a dimension of it,
but queer as in going against everything that like basically
(43:32):
society is and finding a place to thrive and something
to create out of that. And that's really what I'm
trying to do. It'd be great to end up with
like a queer to community of folks who want to
meditate and turn ourselves into green Tara and white chin
Razik and uh and masturbate and like yeah, I mean right,
(43:56):
and then like maybe hit each other sometimes always yeah,
doing that. And then I've also talked to my partner
who has over a decade of kink experience, and we
are talking about potentially launching workshops that have kind of
(44:17):
a blending because he's learned so much from me and
I've learned so much from him, like bringing you know,
the best of to ask how there's a crossover, but
there's a couple of places missing where I think the
two just really beautifully hold space for each other and
that there's a lot when taught together that they can
(44:41):
unlock that maybe one or the other might not be
the whole prescription for somebody.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
So yeah, well you mentioned something about how BDSM can
bring that crystal clarity versus open spaciousness. What my interpretation
of that is that sometimes the chakra pain can get
you present in a way that just wrestling in meditation
is yeah, so fast.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
And then the one of the differences there then is
like then you might need space for something else to arise,
whereas like if you're in a king scene and you're
getting it repeatedly. Generally we're trying to do is have
the emotional release. What we're trying to do in tandra
is get down or what's happening like that, And those
can be two totally separate avenues.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah. Yeah, one is very active, it sounds like, and
the other is more just relaxing into a receptive or Yeah,
it's a different, different movement of energy, is what I'm sensing.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah, And the coolest part and this is like one
of the things I think I learned from you early on.
We were talking about different ways of masturbating or doing
an oyp am. I going to do masturbation the way
I used to do it, and you would say, just
don't combine them, and so my, uh, you can combine
kink in tantra. I want to be clear. But what
I what I what I think of there is this
(45:59):
idea of I'd like, yes, yes, so like you're going
to choose sunch, you're gonna choose cank, or you're gonna
choose them both together. You're gonna choose an avenue tonight
to look at your genital tissue. Which avenue are you
going to choose? And what is your attention and then
do your own science. It's all right now, what happened
(46:19):
to your experiment? And try something else next time, or
try the same thing if.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
You like to, Yes, exactly. Yeah, and I love that
perspective of being a researcher.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
We're explorers and what we're exploring is territory that our
society tells us we're not allowed to explore, which is
our fucking genitals.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, excuse me, I reject that.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yeah, don't reject that. Yea awesome. Well, thank you so
much TK for this beautiful conversation. How can people get
ahold of a hold of you and find out more
about your work and sign up for working with you?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Woo. My website is Queering Tantra dot o RG. I'm
on Instagram at Queering Underscore tntra and that's really it.
The website's got a couple of blog posts on it.
My instagram is getting fired up and run in here,
(47:11):
and there's a place on there people can sign up
for what I think is going to be a bi
monthly newsletter. Yeah, beautiful are consultation on there, so you
can fill out a form and tell me some stuff
about yourself and then I'll hit you back and we
can see if we're a good fit to work together.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Beautiful, So we will put all those wonderful links below
this video and podcast and blog and all of that stuff,
so you can reach out to TK and connect with
them to work with in queering TNDRA, embracing TNTRA as
a queer person with a guidance and support of an expert.
(47:52):
The thing about expert doi do you want to qualify
that word?
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Is?
Speaker 1 (47:55):
To me, expert doesn't mean that we're done. To me,
expert means that we've put in the work, We've cultivated
a level of mastery and expertise, and that we continue
to grow and evolve in in that mastery and in
the expertise. So it doesn't mean that we're done. It
means that we It's just an honoring of of of
the work that we've put in up into the journey
so far, on the journey so far, and that we
(48:17):
have accumulated quite a bit of wisdom as a result
of that. So that's what I mean by the word expert.
You have expertise in this field and you've been practicing
for five years, and yeah, can provide a layer and
level of support that's unique and important. Yeah, yeah, yay.
Thank you so much TK for joining us this evening.
Thank you audience for tuning in. I hope this was
(48:38):
enriching and delicious for you. So for any of our
queer and non binary folks who would like to learn
Authentic Contra under the guidance of another as a fellow
queer sibling, you can find TK at queeringtontra dot org
and again we will put the link under this video
and you can stay connected to us and TK at
Authentic tntra dot com and tune in next next week
(49:00):
for another wonderful episode. We got two more until we
go on break for the winter, in which you get
to listen to a lot of wonderful replays. So make
sure you subscribe to Sex's Medicine on YouTube, tune ins, iTunes,
all the wonderful channels Spotify, and we will see you
next week. Have a beautiful You've been listening to Sex's
Medicine with Davy ward ericson your number one resource for
(49:22):
holistic sex education. You can listen to and subscribe to
Sex's Medicine on Spotify, Stitcher, tune in, iTunes, iHeartRadio, and
YouTube just search Sex's Medicine with Davy Ward. Stay connected
with me and my guests on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter
at authentic Contra. And learn how you can use tntra
(49:43):
as medicine to heal, awaken, and empower every area of
your life at authentic tontra dot com. Make sure to
tune in to Sex's Medicine every Thursday at seven pm Pacific.
Uncontact Talk Radio Network and join our watch party every
Thursday evening on Facebook a'd authentic Tom Tram. We look
forward to you joining us next week for another episode
(50:05):
of Sex Is Medicine with Davey bournem
Welcome to Sex's Medicine, your number one resource for holistic
sex education. I'm Davey word Ericson, and I invite you
to join me every week for another enriching and powerful
conversation about the intersection of sexuality, spirituality, pleasure, and personal growth.
Each episode of Sex's Medicine is dedicated to awakening your
(00:23):
heart and mind to the true purpose and power of
human sexuality. Please join me on this journey of self
discovery as we explore the art of using pleasure as
medicine to awaken, heal, and empower every area of your life.
Sex's Medicine broadcasts every Thursday at seven pm Pacific on
(00:45):
Contact Talk Radio Networking. You can listen to the replay
and subscribe to Sex's Medicine on Spotify, Stitcher, tune in, iTunes, iHeartRadio,
and YouTube. And now get ready for another episode of
Sex Is Medicine. Hey, everybody, welcome to sex Is Medicine.
(01:07):
I am your host, Davy ward Ericson, here with you
once again for another delicious and exciting episode where we
explore the connection between sexuality, spirituality, pleasure, and personal growth.
One of our favorite topics. I just want to give
you a reminder that this is going to be the
last month of sexist medicine for twenty twenty one. We
(01:29):
are taking a little winter vaca for November December of
twenty twenty one in early twenty twenty two, but we
plan to be back at you in the spring of
twenty twenty two. And in the meantime, of course, you
can stay connected to all of this deliciousness at authentic
tontra dot com and make sure that you follow us
on all of our social media outlets at Authentic Tentre.
(01:50):
You can also follow my little personal journey of poppy
love on davy Ward tntra as well. This evening, we
have a wonderful, wonderful guest who has been a colleague
of mine for many many years, a graduate of our
Authentic ton for Certification program, actually graduate from our first
the year went to a full year of training, our
full first full year of training twenty sixteen, and that
(02:13):
is TK and TK Spider is.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
The I got my spiders on.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Oh yeah, for all, you're a rock climber. You're like
a spider climbing rocks. Yay, I thought so, I thought so.
So TK is joining us this evening to talk about
queering TONTRA, a topic that is really important in something
that we absolutely want to explore moving into more of
at the institute. So thank you so much, TK for
being here with.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Us, Thanks for having me Davey, Yeah, yay.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So could you share a little bit about yourself? TK?
So you you graduated in twenty sixteen from our training
program and what have you been up to since then?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I can't believe twenty sixteen only five ish years ago.
I I've been doing authentic entre practitioner work. I was
working in sports medicine for a while. I'm an athletic
trainer certified as well. I stopped doing that. I work
(03:19):
at a route setting gym. I do sex and authentic
contra coaching. I came out early this year as non
binary trans mask. I've been in the kink world. My
partner and I have performed at Folsome and Twisted Windows,
(03:41):
and we submitted to HUMP so kind of exploring avenues
with kink and infusing and integrating TNTRA and what it
means to be queer and trans and polyamorous. And now
I am relaunching my formal former Lovecraft collective dot com
to queering Tantra dot org with a focus on queer
(04:05):
and trans bodies and changing language and infusing what it
means to be queer into sexual liberation. Yeah, and that's
kind of hand in handle.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah really, and that's a huge topic in the realm
of specifically because it is so binary, and we'll explore
some of the reasons for that, but because that's also
it's very exclusionary, right, there's not a big push in
the in the world of at least neo Western neotntra
to include non binary bodies and bodies that aren't aren't
(04:38):
easily fitting into this box of either or and and
and and for example, So when I, when you and
I first met were working together, you were female. That's
how you you identified. And then in your journey, it
sounds like your journey of personal liberation has allowed you
to claim the totality of who you are, which is
(04:59):
beyond this box of you know, female woman and into
non binary and then also as a man. So are
you open to sharing a little bit about that journey.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, it's it's an interesting one. It's spending a lot
of time wrestling with language and what it means to
exist in a world that has these power structures set up,
so like gender identity and what is what we consider normative,
(05:32):
A lot of it's about power, Like when the reasons
our brains are categorizing these things, the stuff that we're
socialized is socialized into is about competence, power, threat, sexual attraction.
But all that kind of plays and boils into the
metal level of power. So I spend a lot of
time wrestling with that and almost Scorpio. You're a scorpio too.
(05:55):
There's like this deep need to understand what's happening, which
I think is part of why we're called ta tantra,
and so in trying to figure out what's going on
understanding why I would like cringe at the word fem
or like this kind of idea of like a woman's circle,
(06:16):
and how I actually started to realize I didn't feel
like I fit into those spaces. Yeah, just kind of unfolded,
and I, in hindsight, my childhood seems so it's like,
so twenty twenty makes so much sense. And now the
(06:36):
language is evolving to like include new understandings, and I
think that that's really the like this stuff has always
been here, we're just using words that express it. Differently
and more powerfully.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah yeah, yeah, So expanding expanding our language, and expanding
our understanding of what it means to be human ultimately,
and it's many myriad forms, yeah yeah, so exploring all
of those concepts. So so for you, it sounds like
(07:14):
as you have been practicing and as you've been like
coming more into alightnment with your own authentic self, that's
what has catalyzed your exploration outside of these you know,
belief structures and these power dynamics and started to explore
outside of that. And so what are some of the
(07:34):
things that you've you've you've found now that you've kind
of left the container of like the traditional masculine feminine
orientation to tantra, what are some of the things that
you've seen and in the field and and and you know,
looking back, like what are some of the things that
you see? If that's a clear question, I.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Think, so I'll try and if I don't quite get it,
we can try again. Some of it is using more
like whole language. So when someone says the term masculine,
(08:17):
that's a cultural like da yeah, And I mean I
love being masculine, right. My association with the word feminine
is not as loving. And so when I think of
the things that someone might call feminine, I have a
very soft side, and I have a very nurturing side,
and I have a very like that the loving carrying
(08:38):
the stuff we culturally associate with that. And so some
of it is just a shift away from these kind
of umbrella terms that we have used, I mean partially
because they are useful into more specific and more like
whole and inclusive language.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, I hear that. I hear that a call for
for for humanity and so specifically I know that, I'll say,
and you know, there's as we talk about, there's different
styles of tantra, and there's different ways of practicing tantra,
and so I observe a lot of the masculine feminine
dynamic kind of conversation happening in the realm of neo
Tantra and David Data. It's like as a as a man,
(09:21):
as a masculine man, you need to be powerful and
have your polarity, and as a feminine woman, like you
can't be that good at business. You have to like
be receptive or you're not going to be a man.
You're gonna have too much masculine energy to get fucked
or something like that, right, So that's yeah, i'd not
crazy making too. And in terms of Tibetan Tnraed Buddhism,
(09:45):
I know that for me, where my mind goes and
where the emphasis and the masculine feminine is often is
on the expression of universal energy. So there's this concept
in Tibetan Buddhism that the feminine is formed. So that's
the way like universal energies are are feminine and masculine,
and so the feminine is the physical, it's the form,
it's everything having to do with the flesh and the
(10:06):
senses and being incarnate or environment. And then the masculine
is conceptual and etheric and you know, kind of out
of body. And so the whole thing of tntras, you know, balancing.
We have masculine and feminine within us, and it's balancing
the essences. There's also you know, things just in terms
of hormones. I know, in the Daoist tradition and in
(10:27):
the Tibetan tradition, feminine essences feminine. They're talking about hormones
and they call them the red essences. And it's like
the estrogen and the progesterone and certain hormones that are
specific to female gonads. And then the masculine essences are
like the semen and the prosthetic fluid and that sort
(10:48):
of thing, and the testosterone, and those are masculine because
those are produced by what are typically called male hormones.
So in terms of you know, rectifying and having more
all inclusive legguage, when we're talking about you know, physiological
components or hormones or universal energies, do we need to
be looking at using opening up our terminology and describing
(11:10):
those those things differently without using masculine and feminine or
are things like when we're describing universal energy, is it
acceptable under that umbrella?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Great question, And I'm glad you brought up form and
energy because that's a that's a big part of energies, right,
It's like what we're embodying and swaying and changing through
in terms of that stuff. So I was just reading
through Passionate Lane. We're talking about the red fluids and
(11:40):
the white fluids, and one of the things that I've found,
you know, in my own engagement or like with my consort,
is that you can embody that energy. Yeah, and you
can uh, you can embody that energy, and then whatever
(12:02):
fluids you're producing can be whatever fluids you're infusing them with.
Energy wise, yes, And so as we move away from
this idea of like super binary endocrine systems, because as
we study more about testosterone, we find that different bodies
that we previously thought would have very specific levels, actually
(12:24):
it's not as binary, and it's not as clear, especially
with people from the global self or the periphery, right,
So making that more inclusive in terms of like what
are we embodying when we are engaged in sex or
tantra the partner or by ourselves. Why not make white
(12:45):
fluid when you're feeling like it? And I think that
that's a big part of kind of what we might
get into later about tantra being part kind of a
counterculture as we like where it came from and how
it got passed down to like everyday people, that this
(13:05):
is like an evolution of that.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, and you're you're exactly correct, and that tantra is
counterculture like the origins of it. So this whole conversation
of queering entre is so fucking dondric like, so like
breaking out of our our conceptual reality, our concept of reality,
and so so I hear that in terms of like
(13:30):
that would be a wonderful in my experiment to do.
In terms of like, you know, if I'm if I'm
really you know, calling on like typical stereotypical feminine energies,
is my body producing hormones that are congruent with that,
And if I shift my energies to be more you know,
masculine quote unquote masculine oriented, Am I producing more white essences?
(13:52):
That would be very interesting also when occurs to me,
that's it seems like a certain level of accomplishment as well. Right,
and then also there are certain aspects of our physicality
that that we we don't have control over yet. So
in terms of you know, conversion not conversion therapy, that's
a bad thing. In terms of hormones, hormon that's very different.
(14:19):
But yeah, but in terms of like, if I want
to you know, if I'm transitioning into a man, I'm
going to take hormones that's that decrease my as you know,
my my ovary hormones and increase what would be considered
more male hormones. So on the hormonal level, that is
still you know, applicable. I think even you know, in
the trans community, there's acknowledgment that our hormones do affect
(14:40):
their anatomy.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's true, and it's that's such an interesting space.
It's like blackness is not a monolith. Trans people are
not a monolith, right. So there's some people that are
trans and non binary and maybe don't want to take
hormones but want top surgery, And then there's some people
that do want to take hormones but don't want top
surgery or like all kinds of ways of expressing themselves.
(15:05):
And there's different amounts of physical dysphoria, and that's something
that very interested in working with people about. My own
comes in waves, and there's periods where everything's okay and
this is my body, and then there's periods where it's intolerable.
And so finding the ways through using this energy and
(15:26):
sex as medicine like to move that energy through, I
think is also really important.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
So let's talk about that because that is a big issue,
the body dysphoria, right, and so how do we how
do we as inclusive providers support trans and queer people
in doing some of those somatic sexual healing practices and
approaching you know, the genitals in a way that's going
(15:55):
to be supportive and loving as opposed to triggering and painful. Well,
I guess it's different for each person.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So much of our programming is like a client guided process. Yeah,
this is even more so, and so it really depends
on what's tolerable. Some people like having their breast tissue touched,
and some people that might be a source of dysphoria.
(16:26):
So for imagining, if there's any source of pleasure in
that part of the body, can you get at it?
And if so, can you grow it? And maybe it's
I want it to be touched this way, but not
that way. I want you to like, grab my muscle,
but don't grab the breast tissue, or you can pinch
the nipple, but don't caress my breasts. Right, So it's
(16:50):
a lot of that exploration, whether by yourself or with
a partner, of very similar exploration we do with cisgendered
people who haven't touched their bodies or don't know what
they like. It's the same kind of questioning process and
really making a lot of space and room for whatever
comes up, right, because we know trauma is stored in
the body, and especially in the genital tissues and so
(17:11):
same same kind of like in the genitals, some people
transmit don't or aren't into penetration and some really are
and some love it. Yeah, And so finding out whether
or not that's going to be something that's on the
table and not assuming starting out with thirty seconds, can
you touch yourself for thirty seconds and see if something's there?
(17:34):
Can you see you know? And then moving through that
really person to person, really gentle, very curious and like
trying to step back from these so many of them
are blind spots, I know because of our culture, but
step back from you.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, and I'm hearing, I'm hearing what an
incredible opportunity for communication this is and just how slow
and like really spacious it needs to be to to
support the individual and having their own wisdom arise to
communicate what their needs are in regards to this, as
(18:13):
opposed to us as the practitioners, presuming that we know
and just kind of shoveling it on them with our
biases and all of.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
That impact and expecting it to shift. Like when I
first started working with you, I was in a period
of time where I really needed some like soft, juicy, feminine.
I was all into the juicy, and then there there
came a shift and I was like that, oh interesting,
that's actually an aspect of this thing. And so like
(18:40):
making room for it to move. And there is no
there is no there's no destination. It's just like a pleasure.
Your pleasure is going to change. You can grow it,
grow it, grow it, and then something might happen and
you'll be back to where you you know, it's the
same same thing.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
So the fluidity and the and the I'm also here,
the unboundedness.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
And the the the the expectation that as our sexuality,
as we become more in touch with ourselves, the way
we express our sexuality is going to evolve and grow
and change, and sometimes that's going to look like breaking
the boxes entirely.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Oh totally. It's so painful.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah right, yeah, yeah, tell me about that. What's so
painful about that?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Grief? So I've heard grief described as love with nowhere
to go? Yeah, And when I think of, you know,
my own experience, this idea of like who I am
in the world or who I'm how people see me,
how I've showed up for people? You know how my
mom asks, can I still call you my daughter?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So there's like all these aspects where it's like, actually,
I'm grieving this person that I'm not anymore, and that's
breaking through a box or the it's coming out. Yeah,
but yeah, it's not. It's yeah, there's a lot of
(20:14):
grief there, and there's aspects of that it's like, oh, actually,
maybe I didn't want to break through all of that.
Maybe there's this aspect that's still okay in my childhood
thinks name actually feels okay, but the rest of this doesn't.
And so like that's that's a heavy process.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, And as you're as you're sharing this, what's coming
to me is because of like it's it's unfathomable in
some ways to someone who is who identifies as cysts
and hat and it's you know, our brains are wired
in that way. So these beautiful and precious nuances of
as we are, you know, as you are becoming, as
(20:55):
you were shedding who you used to be and becoming
more of who you are now, as you're just grabbing
that grief in that process of letting go, and just
how how poignant and precious that is and how tender
and sacred, quite frank of that space is. And so
I'm also hearing like the imperative of having having queer
(21:18):
contra teachers to be able to have the resonance and
the relatability to be able to hold that space for
for our students as they go, because it's really a rebirthing.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, I mean, And people who do hormone replacement therapy
talk about their second puberty, so yeah, yeah, it is,
I mean. And interestingly, to draw a parallel, we become
different people throughout our lives all the time. Yeah, right,
Like you used to be a monk.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, I used to be a stripper too. I still
act like a stripper sometimes.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
How many lives do we have? And so I think
that one of the as you know, the media doesn't
we we talked. The media talks a lot about trans
and queer people, but doesn't engage a ton with trans
and queer people. And the truth is the experience, not
the like socialized experience, but the I can only speak
for myself, but the truth is that experience is like
(22:17):
very similar to like you know, when I left LA
I moved to small town Montana. It was a different
kind of rebirthing. There was a different kind of reef there,
and this one just happens to be this other avenue
that people have all these like very socialized, intense normative
scripts put on us children. But it's an experience I
(22:39):
think that everybody actually can relate to, and it's not
as foreign as to set people think or might think
it is. It's really you know, you're trying something else,
you're doing something else. Yeah, I think that gets conflated
and in fear because the passion is real. I don't
(23:01):
mean to say that this isn't real, right, but like
muh yeah, the experience, the experience of becoming should be
familiar to a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, because it's a human experience, right, Yeah. Yeah. So
then how can we as practitioners in the field of
TNDRA who who really who are committed and really want
to bring healing to all humans in all all expressions
of humanity? How can we demonstrate and provide and create
(23:33):
safer space for our queer brothers and sisters and siblings
and siblings.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
So this is an interesting one. I there's a lot
of different language out there. I personally have been borrowing
from kink and using terms of pop and bottom mm hmm,
to describe who's going to be, you know, sitting on
someone's lap in the ab young position, or who's receiving
(24:06):
sensation and you know, a tounch of massage or something
like that. And then I tend to ask people what
they prefer to have their genitals called. Yeah, so not
assuming that somebody likes to have their vulva be called
the vulva you know in specific medical situations. Maybe that's
(24:29):
appropriate in uh, some kind of emergent situation, but otherwise,
it's like there's a whole host of words out there.
I like to call mine my portal, and uh, what
else is there? A lot of it really is language.
So we're talking about masculine and feminine energies. I prefer
(24:51):
to like just stay away from those terms. And you
talk about I think you brought up earlier the form
and energy and like what parts of you are full
and your energy and what's being expressed like this and
what's being expressed over here? And like actually, how much
more how much more space you're talking about expansiveness, how
(25:12):
much more space? Using like we talk about nonviolent communication
and using these describing words, these intense like specific nuanced vocabulary,
more freedom.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, I hear that, And because it is like really
drilling down into what it is that you want to describe.
So in terms circling back to this whole concept of energy,
feminine energy versus masculine energy, Well, if we take the
time to really drill down into it, what are we describing?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
So what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
What are we talking about? Yeah, so the active, vital,
red energy is what comes to mind from me when
we say, you know, the in Tibetan, when we say
the feminine energy, it's active, it's vital, its form, it's red.
And masculine energy is ethic, it's open, it's spacious, it's conceptual.
So instead of just saying masculine feminine, presuming that people
know what the fuck I'm talking about, actually describing the energy,
(26:04):
because yeah, because that's a thing not everybody when saying
masculine energy, in some traditions, that means the form as
opposed to being conceptual. Right, So yeah, yeah, I hear that.
So really, the masculine feminine is really problematic in that
in that in in in that realm.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, and I think it can be the other. And
that's just you know, some people have dysphoria with those words. Yeah,
but also I think that it speaks to you what
you're just saying, like, what are we talking about? What
the fuck are we talking about? The other one? Oh,
(26:41):
if we are like separating groups of people to share experiences,
this is a tough one. I think unless there is
some very extreme traumatic exception that we should not be
separating people by gender, you know, like having like a
like a women's sharing circle or a men sharing And
(27:02):
I don't know how you're doing things now because it's
been a couple of years since I was in the program.
If people are still sharing all together, or if there's
breakout groups that folks separate, but keeping everybody has something
to learn from everybody. H And so yeah, keeping everybody
together if they're sharing specific things that maybe some people
(27:25):
would be like, well, these should be reserved for these
people with this anatomy, because you know, moving through the
world as a woman is yeah, under patriarchy different, sure,
But who does that exclude when we don't make room
for nuance?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, I hear that. So my preference is for everybody
to share. That's that's always been I hate breaking out
sometimes we have to, but it's usually I don't recall
it breaking out based on gender. It's as well teaching pods,
teaching pods. But my preference is for everyone to all
be together all the time. And I hear that in
(28:00):
terms of like I would say, maybe for a public,
public workshop, and as you pointed, there are specific concerns
that are you know, specific for let's say cis gender
heterosexual or we'll just say sitch under mind because they
may not be heterosexual, things like stemen retention. Right, So
like having a a cis gender men's group to talk
about how they work with their penis, right, or maybe
(28:23):
just having a penis owners group. I think, yeah, right, yeah,
so everyone can engage.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Totally and being clear about that, right, because it might
be that the penis owner owner's workshop is open, but
if there's no other language about being trans inclusive, then
is a woman who has penis going to show up
there and want to feel safe? Right?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, exactly exactly, So even in that case, So I
remember when I when I taught at the Seattle Center
for Sex Positivity and I was doing a you know,
a tuntra masturbation for women. It was like, you know,
we were really clear about about or they they really
wanted me to be clear about, like, okay, so is
this for cist gender women, is this for all women?
Like what kind of women are we talking about? And
(29:04):
they also shared like, if you want it to just
be for cis gender women, because that's the people that
you want to talk to, that's great, you know, like,
just be clear about that so that it's not like
you're not just erasing that there's women with penises, and
if it's inclusive for women with penises, then communicate that totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
So again I'm hearing really mindfulness and care and examination
(29:30):
of the language that we use and some of the
concepts that are conditioned into us by our culture, and
those those concepts being inadequate to describe the totality of
our human experience. And so also i'm hearing you also
mentioned like in workshops or i'm sorry, in teaching clients
and talking about their genitals. That's very specific. So what
(29:52):
about in the case of a workshop, if we're in
a workshop when we've got a mix of cist gender
people and trans people, and all the trans people in
the workshop have a different name for their genital anatomy,
how do we balance the the thoughts, not that you
have all the answers, but that's about.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I'm like, oh, no, what would I do.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
We're just having a conference that we're exploring possibilities here, right.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, I mean, and probably we're going to talk about genitals. Yeah,
And it's my own resistance is coming up and being like, well,
would I just use medical terms? Maybe maybe I would
use you know, a ritchie medical terms, and maybe there
would be some kind of disclaimer. Yeah. The other thing?
(30:40):
What was I just thinking? I think some of it
is just about like relaxing. We talked, you know, like
when you're we're teaching clients to relax so they're not
like squeezing as they're about to come. And you're like,
I think of our under norms and are kind of
(31:01):
like societal ideas is like, I'm a man, and when
we like relax out of that rigidity, there's just like
room for things to expand yes, yes, yes, And so
I think of like, well what would I Well, maybe
i'd ask the class. Maybe I would say, hey, we're
(31:22):
going to talk about this and if it's confusing, we
can try to clarify and we'll go from here. Yea
or maybe we'd talk about Oh it's funny. Yeah, I
don't ideas of shapes come to mind, Like maybe there's
a like shapes the class can agree on. But the
(31:44):
idea there is to play is to find the like
play inside of like where can we all be? And
like sex is medicine, sex is fun, Like play is healing,
and how do we reject they that makes us like
I don't want to make a mistake or I don't
want to have used some different language because it's really
(32:06):
hard for me to understand. It's like, all right, we'll relax.
No one's stealing anything from you, which is kind of
a non answer, but.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
You know that's a that's a beautiful answer. And what
I'm loving also is so we you were you were
in the anti racism training that we held for the institute,
and I'm so loving this. You know these anti racist values,
which is like sometimes we don't know. We don't have
to show up and know all the answers we create.
We co created as a collective, we co created as
a community, So I you know, it would be part
(32:41):
of the white supremacist ideology for me to walk into
a room and presume I know what the fuck's can
happen with a group of twenty people I've never met before,
I know what all their needs are. Like, that's exactly
what we're pointing to you. We can't make assumptions that
that we have to be present and open and spacious
(33:02):
and allowing the nuances and the diversity and and the
variety to emerge. And then as a collective we co
create how we're going to navigate this space with the
intention of love and support.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So the kind of workshop I want to go to,
not when that's like specifically we're going to, you know,
say these words, it's like, well, actually everything you just said.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah, actually we don't know all the answers, so let's
co create it.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, let's figure it out.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah yeah. And so you also mentioned that you've been
diving into kink as part of your reclamation journey. So
where are they? Where are the intersection points that you
see between tontra and kink, Like, how can how does
kink cultivate presence and mindfulness and in a similar way
that tuntra can? And where where are the points of
connection there?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I love this question. So my partner is a prodom
and when we first met, we were both like, oh
you do that, Oh you do that. Oh no, I
do that, But we do this differently. A lot of
the the reason why top and bottom work I think
(34:17):
really well in TNTRA is that whoever's topping in a
scene in kink is following the lead generally and is
given consent and is empowered by the bottom to do
the things that they're doing. And so you know in tantra,
if we're going to be giving somebody massage, that the
(34:40):
person whose genitals are going to be touched is going
to empower the other person to touch their genitals. And
that is a process where the person touching them is
making eye contact with them. That's generally another point I
think some people who practice different kinds of mediasm sometimes
they put in their scenes that they you know, you
(35:01):
don't look at me unless I ask you to. But
generally you're making eye contact, You're following somebody's breath and
big time consent and communication.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm hearing that tremendous communication. Yeah yeah.
And so when I hear that, so it's like the
bottom is driving. So in the way I think of
this as a receiver. And so if we're talking about
giving and receiving. So if I'm receiving a Yoni massage,
I'm driving, even though it may look like the giver
is driving, I am actually you know, putting on the brakes,
(35:33):
saying or pushing on the gas, and giving the communication
about how fast, how slow, and what the needs are.
So I'm hearing that in Kank the bottom, the person
receiving the administration is the one actually driving the car,
even though it may look like the top is the
one in control.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yeah, and you know, all of the agreements and conversations
that happen generally, I am practicing. I think you're going
to negotiate a lot of what happens beforehand. Where Tana,
there's more of like I'm here and talking with you,
but not all the time, and sometimes that's different depends
(36:13):
on who you're playing with and how you're playing.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah, I want to circle back to the body dysphoria
and finding pleasure. You did such a beautiful job of
talking about like, is there any pleasure in this space?
And if so, can we build upon it? But I
want to talk a little bit more about approaching that
in the realm of TNTRA because because that that that's
a huge huge trauma. It's a huge area of wounding
(36:42):
and suffering, and so as as practitioners wanting to be
able to provide safe space for trends and queer people
to explore this. What are some things that we need
to know about body dysphoria and how to in your opinion, like,
what would you have liked to receive if you were
(37:02):
if you were if you were on the receiving end
of of a TOUNT instructor from our school, how would
you like to be held in that space?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Oh? Interesting? Well my first thought is like I tend
to call my clip my dick. Yeah, okay, and so
if it's funny, I'm wearing my big clit energy shirt.
(37:32):
So I think there's a mirroring that happens there, which
is what you're talking about relatability earlier and that kind
of even if someone doesn't understand it, they got to
get it. Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, they gotta feel you, empathy.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
I gotta feel you. Yeah yeah. And then really, I
think the biggest thing for me is a curiosity and
really letting that person drive with a little bit of push.
(38:14):
There's this kind of like, oh, well, maybe you don't
want to explore penetration. Oh no, every time I try
to explore penetration, I you know, have a panic attack
and it's like, okay, well that's that's okay if you
never explore penetration. Are you okay with that? Do we
want to like get into radically accepting that? Okay, Once
you radically accept that, might there be some time in
the future, like if you're open to it, please, like
(38:36):
I want to be here if that's something you want
to explore whenever you're ready. And so really finding the
line of being like not like are you sure in
an infantilizing way, but kind of like all right, feel
into that. Are we okay withdrawing this boundary about you know,
how you want your penis touched? If you know someone's
(38:59):
on spiral electone and estradiol and whatever's happening to their
body is making you know, changes there, and it's a
big exploration. I think that doing the research about how
different trans bodies like to fox.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, yep. And and well you just mentioned the different
hormones and how they're going to affect sensation. That's a
huge component of it. I mean we're like hormone factories, right,
and it impacts everything from mood to thought process to sensation.
So being educated about about how how those chemicals are
(39:41):
going to impact our experience of touch, yeah, I mean,
and to add a personal touch.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I I tried to stosterone earlier this year. I was very,
very very excited about it, and it changed my arousal
process so drastically and so quickly. It was arrifying, and
I stopped. And that's not everybody's experience. Often hormones balance out.
But for me, where I was at and still am
at in my life right now, there's so many other
things going on, it was like, this is too much.
(40:12):
This is like straying away from how I understand my
pleasure and I like need to be grounded in my
pleasure with all the like stuff happening, Yeah, and so
being ready to make space for that if that's what
somebody else is going through too, the like, yeah, how
do we how do we make room in a changing landscape?
You know? There's like an interesting parallel I think is menopause,
(40:36):
And that's where a lot of people get their hormone
research on estrogen. A lot of like male to female
transition folks.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
So yeah, yeah, and menopause is a great example. As
I enter into that myself, I'm shocked. It's like it
can create brain fog. You forget words like I didn't
know you can forget like too much read that. So yeah,
(41:11):
it's it's a it's pretty profound the impact that hormones have,
so being really mindful, uh, for all of us. The
more we talk about, the more I just hear is
like again, it's human and just just opening that extra
not even extra, opening that other pedal. And I think
of like our human consciousness as a lotus, right, so oh,
(41:32):
here's another pedal to open here, here's here's another area
to explore and be be more aware of and have
compassion and grace and mindfulness and love and yeah, it's
this conversation is about how can we be more full
of human to more humans?
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Totally totally yeah. And I think the other thing is
some people get their first t shot and it's the
greatest change that's ever happened in their life and they
never saw yeah hanging for that.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah yeah, all them mean, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
The frenzy that might happen there or yeah or otherwise.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
The myriad of different experiences that we may have is
unique human beings so then your work you are you
are making a choice to focus on queering contra What
is it? What does that mean? How is that going
to look in the world?
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I hope, I know You're called creating it exactly. And
that's that's been so much of this experience. The majority
of the clients that I've seen since graduating have ended
up being queer. I'm in the Pacific Northwest and around
the Seattle area, so it makes sense queer and polly
(42:51):
and generally kinky as well, so it like really helps
that whole framework. I think it's just going to be
a pretty soft launch, but into really like the stuff
we talked about with with tantra form and energy and
(43:11):
and and moving away from very binary language. And there's
that quote by Belle Hooks that I love. Uh. She
says something like, not queer as in who I'm having
sex with, but that could be a dimension of it,
but queer as in going against everything that like basically
(43:32):
society is and finding a place to thrive and something
to create out of that. And that's really what I'm
trying to do. It'd be great to end up with
like a queer to community of folks who want to
meditate and turn ourselves into green Tara and white chin
Razik and uh and masturbate and like yeah, I mean right,
(43:56):
and then like maybe hit each other sometimes always yeah,
doing that. And then I've also talked to my partner
who has over a decade of kink experience, and we
are talking about potentially launching workshops that have kind of
(44:17):
a blending because he's learned so much from me and
I've learned so much from him, like bringing you know,
the best of to ask how there's a crossover, but
there's a couple of places missing where I think the
two just really beautifully hold space for each other and
that there's a lot when taught together that they can
(44:41):
unlock that maybe one or the other might not be
the whole prescription for somebody.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
So yeah, well you mentioned something about how BDSM can
bring that crystal clarity versus open spaciousness. What my interpretation
of that is that sometimes the chakra pain can get
you present in a way that just wrestling in meditation
is yeah, so fast.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
And then the one of the differences there then is
like then you might need space for something else to arise,
whereas like if you're in a king scene and you're
getting it repeatedly. Generally we're trying to do is have
the emotional release. What we're trying to do in tandra
is get down or what's happening like that, And those
can be two totally separate avenues.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah. Yeah, one is very active, it sounds like, and
the other is more just relaxing into a receptive or Yeah,
it's a different, different movement of energy, is what I'm sensing.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah, And the coolest part and this is like one
of the things I think I learned from you early on.
We were talking about different ways of masturbating or doing
an oyp am. I going to do masturbation the way
I used to do it, and you would say, just
don't combine them, and so my, uh, you can combine
kink in tantra. I want to be clear. But what
I what I what I think of there is this
(45:59):
idea of I'd like, yes, yes, so like you're going
to choose sunch, you're gonna choose cank, or you're gonna
choose them both together. You're gonna choose an avenue tonight
to look at your genital tissue. Which avenue are you
going to choose? And what is your attention and then
do your own science. It's all right now, what happened
(46:19):
to your experiment? And try something else next time, or
try the same thing if.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
You like to, Yes, exactly. Yeah, and I love that
perspective of being a researcher.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
We're explorers and what we're exploring is territory that our
society tells us we're not allowed to explore, which is
our fucking genitals.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, excuse me, I reject that.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yeah, don't reject that. Yea awesome. Well, thank you so
much TK for this beautiful conversation. How can people get
ahold of a hold of you and find out more
about your work and sign up for working with you?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Woo. My website is Queering Tantra dot o RG. I'm
on Instagram at Queering Underscore tntra and that's really it.
The website's got a couple of blog posts on it.
My instagram is getting fired up and run in here,
(47:11):
and there's a place on there people can sign up
for what I think is going to be a bi
monthly newsletter. Yeah, beautiful are consultation on there, so you
can fill out a form and tell me some stuff
about yourself and then I'll hit you back and we
can see if we're a good fit to work together.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Beautiful, So we will put all those wonderful links below
this video and podcast and blog and all of that stuff,
so you can reach out to TK and connect with
them to work with in queering TNDRA, embracing TNTRA as
a queer person with a guidance and support of an expert.
(47:52):
The thing about expert doi do you want to qualify
that word?
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Is?
Speaker 1 (47:55):
To me, expert doesn't mean that we're done. To me,
expert means that we've put in the work, We've cultivated
a level of mastery and expertise, and that we continue
to grow and evolve in in that mastery and in
the expertise. So it doesn't mean that we're done. It
means that we It's just an honoring of of of
the work that we've put in up into the journey
so far, on the journey so far, and that we
(48:17):
have accumulated quite a bit of wisdom as a result
of that. So that's what I mean by the word expert.
You have expertise in this field and you've been practicing
for five years, and yeah, can provide a layer and
level of support that's unique and important. Yeah, yeah, yay.
Thank you so much TK for joining us this evening.
Thank you audience for tuning in. I hope this was
(48:38):
enriching and delicious for you. So for any of our
queer and non binary folks who would like to learn
Authentic Contra under the guidance of another as a fellow
queer sibling, you can find TK at queeringtontra dot org
and again we will put the link under this video
and you can stay connected to us and TK at
Authentic tntra dot com and tune in next next week
(49:00):
for another wonderful episode. We got two more until we
go on break for the winter, in which you get
to listen to a lot of wonderful replays. So make
sure you subscribe to Sex's Medicine on YouTube, tune ins, iTunes,
all the wonderful channels Spotify, and we will see you
next week. Have a beautiful You've been listening to Sex's
Medicine with Davy ward ericson your number one resource for
(49:22):
holistic sex education. You can listen to and subscribe to
Sex's Medicine on Spotify, Stitcher, tune in, iTunes, iHeartRadio, and
YouTube just search Sex's Medicine with Davy Ward. Stay connected
with me and my guests on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter
at authentic Contra. And learn how you can use tntra
(49:43):
as medicine to heal, awaken, and empower every area of
your life at authentic tontra dot com. Make sure to
tune in to Sex's Medicine every Thursday at seven pm Pacific.
Uncontact Talk Radio Network and join our watch party every
Thursday evening on Facebook a'd authentic Tom Tram. We look
forward to you joining us next week for another episode
(50:05):
of Sex Is Medicine with Davey bournem
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